| 00:07.50 | swb | check this out... a job post on the 37signals board from Provo http://jobs.37signals.com/jobs/828 |
| 00:08.45 | synic | woot. Ruby. I'm glade to see that. |
| 00:08.54 | synic | er.. glad. |
| 00:17.42 | macnewbold | ~wake mindjuju |
| 00:17.52 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on mindjuju and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
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| 00:34.37 | swb | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15014682/site/newsweek/ |
| 00:38.33 | mindjuju | macnewbold: ping |
| 00:39.15 | herl1 | ~seen Utah_Dave |
| 00:39.38 | jbot | utah_dave <n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 2h 23m 17s ago, saying: 'ok, that's working great. Thanks again dataw0lf'. |
| 00:52.17 | mindjuju | macnewbold : ping |
| 00:52.26 | macnewbold | pong, mindjuju |
| 00:52.30 | macnewbold | geek lunch is Friday? |
| 00:52.42 | macnewbold | ~seen wps |
| 00:52.56 | jbot | wps <n=wps@64.72.210.10> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 3h 19m 9s ago, saying: 'my wife makes a mean cheese ball'. |
| 00:53.27 | macnewbold | if it is, would you send the email to the list again? You do that very well. |
| 00:53.40 | mindjuju | k, it's official, i sux, yes this friday is when it should be |
| 00:53.41 | macnewbold | we'll also need to harass wps about getting those on the UPHPU calendar on the web site |
| 00:53.47 | macnewbold | or is it on the 8th? |
| 00:53.55 | mindjuju | it should be this friday |
| 00:53.55 | macnewbold | it's robintinos in bountiful, right? |
| 00:54.04 | mindjuju | yup on robintinos |
| 00:54.12 | mindjuju | do you think that is enough notice for everybody? |
| 00:58.01 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40a.dsl.aros.net) |
| 00:59.14 | macnewbold | probably so |
| 00:59.22 | macnewbold | but mention that in the message |
| 00:59.31 | macnewbold | if several ask us to delay it, we could |
| 01:00.25 | mindjuju | i would just hate there to be 2 potential dates out there in case somebody got the email that it would be this friday and not the next one that said "no wait, next friday" |
| 01:00.31 | timinator | I'm out guys |
| 01:00.33 | timinator | later |
| 01:01.12 | mindjuju | plus and this is jsut me, but i'm rolling the new site December 10th, but have internal training this friday |
| 01:01.23 | mindjuju | so i'd be out, though you could go and represent |
| 01:10.22 | macnewbold | I might not make it either, since it is in bountiful, and that's the day our new employee starts |
| 01:10.30 | macnewbold | but tim would represent I'm sure |
| 01:11.02 | mindjuju | i could definantly go next friday, what about you? |
| 01:12.22 | macnewbold | the 8th? |
| 01:12.25 | macnewbold | *checks* |
| 01:12.30 | tierra | huh, robintinos this friday? |
| 01:12.35 | tierra | or next? |
| 01:12.44 | macnewbold | I could do the 8th much better than the 1st |
| 01:12.59 | mindjuju | yup, me too |
| 01:13.01 | mindjuju | what about you tierra |
| 01:13.05 | macnewbold | but the people from up north would be the biggest factor |
| 01:13.10 | mindjuju | robintinos on the 8th? |
| 01:13.21 | mindjuju | true that, and timinator just left |
| 01:13.21 | mindjuju | nerd |
| 01:13.27 | mindjuju | bigdog_ut, you around? |
| 01:13.33 | macnewbold | ~wake everyone |
| 01:13.34 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on everyone and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 01:13.41 | bigdog_ut | mindjuju y |
| 01:13.45 | mindjuju | coolio! |
| 01:13.53 | mindjuju | robintionsos on the 8th |
| 01:13.54 | mindjuju | good for you? |
| 01:14.23 | bigdog_ut | where is that? |
| 01:14.27 | mindjuju | bountiful |
| 01:14.42 | mindjuju | robintinos is the real spelling |
| 01:15.00 | tierra | I guess the 8th works for me, though I'd prefer the 15th actually, but that's probably getting too close into the holidays for most people |
| 01:16.23 | tierra | bbl, leaving work |
| 01:16.24 | macnewbold | do we have a december meeting? that's right by the 15th too |
| 01:16.27 | macnewbold | yeah, me too |
| 01:16.30 | macnewbold | see ya tomorrow |
| 01:16.41 | macnewbold | mj, you can decide, or ask on the list, whichever you like |
| 01:16.46 | tierra | I'll check back later tonight |
| 01:16.50 | mindjuju | k |
| 01:17.17 | mindjuju | i'll tentatively set the 8th, though open it up for comment to see if it will change |
| 01:17.38 | macnewbold | good |
| 01:18.34 | bigdog_ut | 8th might be good too |
| 01:18.39 | bigdog_ut | that is still early in december |
| 01:18.56 | mindjuju | yup, that's what i'm thinking bigdog_ut |
| 01:19.20 | mindjuju | wish i'd gotten back in time to catch timinator before he left |
| 01:19.28 | mindjuju | but i think all his big stuff is done since he rolled his site |
| 01:41.30 | mindjuju | who else lives up north? |
| 01:41.39 | mindjuju | is it just bigdog_ut and timinator? |
| 01:41.47 | mindjuju | seems like synic did or tierra |
| 01:42.05 | swb | how far North counts as North? |
| 01:42.17 | bigdog_ut | i think so...drip lives up here but works in slc |
| 01:42.45 | mindjuju | i'd say north is everything north of SLC |
| 01:42.52 | synic | nah, I'm in Murray |
| 01:42.54 | mindjuju | course what do i know, i'm native Texan |
| 01:43.04 | swb | well, I'm in Holladay |
| 01:43.10 | mindjuju | where's that? |
| 01:43.11 | bigdog_ut | that just explains it all too me |
| 01:44.18 | swb | technically, I'm SLCounty, near the bottom of Parley's Canyon but still in SLC |
| 01:44.48 | swb | North compared to some ;) |
| 01:45.20 | mindjuju | wow, you live on the way westside |
| 01:45.32 | mindjuju | (just pulled it up on google maps) |
| 01:45.38 | swb | ? |
| 01:46.09 | mindjuju | whoops, eastside |
| 01:46.10 | mindjuju | Holladay |
| 01:46.17 | mindjuju | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Holladay,+Utah&ie=UTF8&z=11&ll=40.70771,-111.932144&spn=0.211327,0.545883&om=1 |
| 01:46.22 | swb | yep |
| 01:47.06 | swb | I think I can get to robintinos w/o toooo much extra driving though (I work on campus at the U) |
| 01:49.20 | mindjuju | k, i think i've got this email ready to launch |
| 01:58.41 | mindjuju | k, email launched |
| 01:59.08 | *** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org | Geek Lunch Dec 8th |
| 01:59.34 | tierra | I live in Sandy, but work in Bountiful |
| 01:59.49 | mindjuju | damn! |
| 01:59.55 | mindjuju | whoops, sorry |
| 02:00.01 | mindjuju | i should have waited |
| 02:00.12 | mindjuju | i could have included your name in the reasons why |
| 02:00.33 | mindjuju | when you see the email, tierra, you'll see what i mean |
| 02:00.51 | mindjuju | course though, you were at the last lunch |
| 02:01.00 | swb | mmmm, lunch |
| 02:01.24 | tierra | hehe |
| 02:02.10 | tierra | you didn't mention a time |
| 02:02.19 | mindjuju | freak! |
| 02:03.04 | tierra | ok... ok... calm down, I think I know how we can fix that |
| 02:03.21 | mindjuju | post another email? |
| 02:03.26 | tierra | I hear that's what this "Reply To" feature is for |
| 02:03.30 | tierra | ;) |
| 02:03.47 | mindjuju | plus this way i can include you in the line up |
| 02:04.01 | tierra | or "Reply All" more specifically |
| 02:04.27 | tierra | so what time though? 6:30, 7:00 ? |
| 02:04.40 | mindjuju | ugh, except that i get the digest version so i don't get it when it first comes out |
| 02:04.54 | mindjuju | we usually do lunch at 12:30p |
| 02:05.04 | tierra | oh, lunch, not dinner |
| 02:05.12 | mindjuju | did i say dinner? |
| 02:05.16 | mindjuju | hang on quick sec |
| 02:05.35 | tierra | no, but I just assumed for some reason |
| 02:05.45 | tierra | thinking the last one was a dinner (though it wasn't) |
| 02:05.53 | mindjuju | whew! |
| 02:06.07 | mindjuju | i'll repost it real quick |
| 02:06.24 | tierra | but yeah, I guess 12:30 would be an ideal time... busy, but probably best for all |
| 02:06.43 | tierra | just need to remember to call ahead |
| 02:06.54 | mindjuju | yeah, was going to say i saw they had reservations for groups |
| 02:07.29 | bigdog_ut | ill now better toward the end of the week...im might see if i can get drip to come |
| 02:07.53 | mindjuju | good idea since i posted him as an "attraction" |
| 02:08.03 | mindjuju | have you seen the email bigdog_ut? |
| 02:08.12 | bigdog_ut | y |
| 02:08.21 | mindjuju | you like? |
| 02:08.55 | bigdog_ut | +10 |
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| 15:36.48 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
| 15:42.06 | bigdog_ut | mornin to the crew |
| 15:43.26 | jsmith | morning! |
| 15:50.03 | timinator | morning |
| 15:52.09 | macnewbold | ~brownie |
| 16:00.54 | mindjuju | timinator: ping |
| 16:01.11 | timinator | wassup mindjuju |
| 16:01.14 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
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| 16:01.19 | mindjuju | hey, geek lunch dec 8th |
| 16:01.21 | mindjuju | you going? |
| 16:01.28 | mindjuju | robintinos |
| 16:01.30 | mindjuju | bountiful |
| 16:01.39 | timinator | sure |
| 16:01.43 | timinator | sounds great |
| 16:01.47 | mindjuju | awesome! |
| 16:02.12 | timinator | bigdog_ut: you going? |
| 16:02.35 | beandog | wherezit? |
| 16:02.49 | mindjuju | robintinos in bountiful |
| 16:03.08 | mindjuju | it's one for the northern guys |
| 16:03.17 | mindjuju | where we come up to them |
| 16:03.54 | mindjuju | cna you go beandog? |
| 16:04.02 | beandog | Uh |
| 16:04.04 | beandog | second |
| 16:09.07 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) |
| 16:09.07 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v _psychic_] by ChanServ |
| 16:10.02 | mindjuju | sup _psychic_ |
| 16:10.09 | _psychic_ | morning |
| 16:10.26 | mindjuju | fyi, we posted the new geek lunch |
| 16:10.34 | mindjuju | dec 8th @12:30p |
| 16:10.34 | _psychic_ | Bountiful, right? |
| 16:10.37 | mindjuju | yup |
| 16:10.40 | mindjuju | you going? |
| 16:10.50 | _psychic_ | I'm in Orem, so probably not :/ |
| 16:10.59 | mindjuju | bummer |
| 16:11.19 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 16:11.19 | bigdog_ut | timinator i might be able to go |
| 16:11.23 | _psychic_ | that's a ways for me though |
| 16:11.50 | mindjuju | yeah, true that |
| 16:12.09 | _psychic_ | specially if the weather was bad |
| 16:12.12 | _psychic_ | I was up in SLC yesterday |
| 16:12.18 | _psychic_ | It took me more than an hour to get home |
| 16:14.16 | mindjuju | i bet. the roads were pretty bad just to work today and i drive frontage road most of the way up |
| 16:14.35 | _psychic_ | I'm just glad I live only a few blocks from work |
| 16:14.39 | _psychic_ | I hate winter weather. |
| 16:18.19 | beandog | mindjuju: yah Id like to go, that'd rock |
| 16:22.32 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Ch1os (n=admin@70-57-91-148.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:25.05 | wps | I love Winter |
| 16:25.09 | beandog | me too |
| 16:25.13 | beandog | its the most wonderful time of the year |
| 16:27.53 | jsmith | We might get ice today in Kansas City... |
| 16:36.44 | timinator | Kansas City?!?! |
| 16:45.45 | jsmith | Yeah, I'm in Kansas City this week teaching an Asterisk class |
| 16:47.40 | timinator | nice |
| 16:48.00 | timinator | I was born and raised there |
| 16:49.01 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
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| 16:50.08 | *** join/#uphpu Nickname (n=user@64.173.193.1) |
| 16:50.10 | synic | pfft, what did that tear ever do to you?!??1 |
| 16:50.33 | dataw0lf | are there tears to be licked off someone's face?! |
| 16:51.20 | dataw0lf | mmm... tastes like grief |
| 16:51.27 | synic | timinator: you don't need to qualify "like a girl" - we already know how you scream. |
| 16:51.28 | wps | dataw0lf: you mind exiting and re-joining? my day cannot begin properly without the jbot tease |
| 16:51.38 | *** part/#uphpu dataw0lf (n=user@64.173.193.1) |
| 16:51.40 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (n=user@64.173.193.1) |
| 16:51.42 | timinator | lol synic |
| 16:51.48 | wps | :) |
| 16:51.52 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 16:52.27 | wps | the only reason that that makes me laugh is from that silly animated video that they made to promote the technology |
| 16:52.37 | dataw0lf | never saw it |
| 16:52.40 | wps | oh? |
| 16:52.43 | dataw0lf | nope |
| 16:53.45 | mindjuju | never heard of it either |
| 16:54.07 | Black_Ch1os | ttp://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_head/pr/PerpendicularAnimation.html |
| 16:54.24 | jsmith | timinator: You gonna be upset if I start talking about how yummy the BBQ at Arthur Bryant's is? |
| 16:54.33 | wps | http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_head/pr/PerpendicularAnimation.html |
| 16:54.36 | wps | that's it… thanks Black_Ch1os |
| 16:54.51 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I just got one. |
| 16:55.27 | timinator | oh, I miss Arthur Bryants |
| 16:55.27 | timinator | and Gates |
| 16:55.27 | timinator | and the Majestic |
| 16:55.28 | jsmith | Yup... talk about good grub. |
| 16:55.30 | timinator | and Lamars |
| 16:55.37 | jsmith | Haven't eaten at Lamars yet |
| 16:55.40 | timinator | and even Mr. Goodcents |
| 16:55.48 | timinator | Lamars Donuts |
| 16:55.59 | jsmith | Oooooh... donuts. |
| 16:56.00 | timinator | they have a few locations now |
| 16:56.02 | timinator | ya |
| 16:56.21 | dataw0lf | I had the best wings evar yesterday. |
| 16:57.39 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: what type of pup you getting? |
| 16:58.52 | dataw0lf | yes, got the a ok to sign up for web directions north |
| 16:58.53 | mindjuju | sorry, watching that perpendicular flash thing |
| 16:58.58 | timinator | jsmith: have you had the BBQ at Johnny's? |
| 16:59.00 | mindjuju | craziness |
| 16:59.25 | timinator | I used to know Johnny |
| 16:59.25 | beandog | I want donuts. :C |
| 16:59.25 | beandog | We need a Dunkin Donuts out here. |
| 16:59.33 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, looking for something that won't break -- have a 3 year old at home |
| 16:59.41 | beandog | that and Waffle House |
| 16:59.48 | mindjuju | course raising him right to not be mean to the dog, but still, boys will be boys |
| 17:00.01 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 17:00.56 | dataw0lf | I just got a golden lab puppy |
| 17:00.56 | mindjuju | want something sturdy like a basset hound |
| 17:00.56 | jsmith | timinator: Nope... where's Johnny's? |
| 17:00.56 | timinator | in Mission |
| 17:00.56 | mindjuju | brb |
| 17:00.56 | dataw0lf | I either go with shepherds (australian or german or border collie) or labs |
| 17:00.57 | dataw0lf | all other dogs sux0rz |
| 17:00.57 | jsmith | timinator: Ah... I'll have to check it out. |
| 17:00.57 | timinator | off 635-Metcalf interchange |
| 17:00.57 | jsmith | Yeah... close to where I'm at ;-) |
| 17:00.59 | jsmith | I'm at 85th and State Line |
| 17:01.06 | timinator | the BBQ is decent there |
| 17:01.11 | timinator | ...... |
| 17:01.23 | timinator | 85th and State Line? |
| 17:01.30 | jsmith | I don't want decent -- I want incredible ;-) |
| 17:01.31 | timinator | it's a bit of a drive then |
| 17:01.45 | timinator | it's good, but not like Gates |
| 17:01.46 | jsmith | Oh, *6*35 |
| 17:01.52 | timinator | yep |
| 17:01.54 | timinator | 635 |
| 17:02.00 | timinator | in the middle of the city |
| 17:02.14 | timinator | where it switches to Metcalf |
| 17:02.29 | timinator | not worth it for that.... |
| 17:02.39 | timinator | have you eaten at Gates? |
| 17:02.44 | timinator | There's one near you |
| 17:02.59 | timinator | State Line and about 100th |
| 17:03.17 | timinator | just shy of 435 |
| 17:03.32 | timinator | that's INCREDIBLE |
| 17:03.42 | timinator | it's my favorite BBQ joint |
| 17:04.10 | jsmith | I read *4*35 |
| 17:04.17 | timinator | yep |
| 17:04.19 | jsmith | Yeah, Gates is good. |
| 17:04.30 | timinator | good? |
| 17:04.30 | dataw0lf | you ever go to Chicago, go to robinson's no. 1 ribs |
| 17:04.44 | jsmith | timinator: OK, it's very good. |
| 17:05.59 | dataw0lf | mmm pay day |
| 17:08.00 | timinator | Arthur Bryant's is very good too. |
| 17:09.30 | timinator | jsmith: have you been to the Plaza? |
| 17:09.56 | jsmith | timinator: Of course ;-) Our corporate office is in Westport |
| 17:10.06 | timinator | NICE |
| 17:10.59 | timinator | have you eaten here: http://www.countryclubplaza.com/plaza.aspx?pgID=882&newsID=44&exCompID=191 |
| 17:11.18 | timinator | McCormick & Schmick |
| 17:11.28 | timinator | my wife and I love that place |
| 17:12.22 | timinator | little pricey though, last time I took my wife I think I spent $180 |
| 17:14.15 | timinator | that's not local to KC though.... The closest to Utah is Denver or Vegas though |
| 17:14.16 | *** join/#uphpu swb (n=designsi@70.98.111.41) |
| 17:15.39 | dataw0lf | swb: thanks for the link to Web Directions North, I'm totally going. |
| 17:15.49 | dataw0lf | If just for the Blackcomb boarding. |
| 17:16.11 | swb | boarding + networking -> can't beat that! |
| 17:17.16 | swb | I'm going to ask my company to send me, but I'm not sure they'll do it (thus the affiliate links) ;) |
| 17:17.22 | dataw0lf | true that, now just to explain to my company that they should pay for the lift tickets too.. |
| 17:19.42 | jsmith | timinator: Only problem is that they're doing road construction in the plaza |
| 17:19.52 | jsmith | timinator: Pricey... but the food is good. |
| 17:19.52 | dataw0lf | "Well, if there's Blackcomb/Whistler skiing involved, I'm coming too." - VP of R&D |
| 17:20.43 | swb | nice VP! |
| 17:20.48 | timinator | definately |
| 17:21.27 | dataw0lf | swb: our company rocks, corporate money flow and size, but they keep a small business community atmosphere going by being super cool. |
| 17:21.55 | dataw0lf | I haven't talked to an employee yet who doesn't love the company |
| 17:22.06 | swb | that makes SUCH a difference |
| 17:22.26 | swb | very cool, congrats on landing a really great job with a good atmosphere |
| 17:22.38 | swb | what's the company name? |
| 17:22.40 | dataw0lf | yea, it sure does. And I've been looking for disenchanted employees, because, you know, of my personality. |
| 17:22.46 | dataw0lf | QuinStreet |
| 17:23.10 | swb | looking for disenchanted employees to argue with? |
| 17:23.34 | dataw0lf | so I can lick the tears off their face, of course. |
| 17:25.18 | *** join/#uphpu drip (n=drip@67.96.135.254) |
| 17:25.20 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v drip] by ChanServ |
| 17:25.24 | mindjuju | sup drip |
| 17:25.36 | dataw0lf | dripalicious |
| 17:26.14 | swb | drip.alicio.us |
| 17:26.22 | drip | howdy folks! |
| 17:26.24 | drip | just realized I wasn't logged in |
| 17:26.30 | drip | he he |
| 17:26.40 | mindjuju | you going to the geek lunch on the 8th, drip? |
| 17:26.52 | drip | planning on it. |
| 17:26.56 | mindjuju | sweetness! |
| 17:27.20 | drip | yeah, will be nice to put some faces to nicks. |
| 17:27.27 | mindjuju | dude, dw, you coming? |
| 17:27.27 | drip | besides bigdog_ut of course |
| 17:27.32 | synic | you think so, but wait until you see us. |
| 17:27.36 | synic | you'll change your mind. |
| 17:27.46 | mindjuju | lol |
| 17:27.48 | drip | then I just know who to e-avoid |
| 17:27.49 | drip | lol |
| 17:27.49 | swb | lol |
| 17:27.51 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I can't, damn it. I have to go to corporate hq in Foster City from the 7th to the 8th |
| 17:28.12 | dataw0lf | Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! |
| 17:28.31 | mindjuju | that actually just came on cable a couple of days ago |
| 17:28.39 | mindjuju | ST 2, wrath of khan |
| 17:28.40 | dataw0lf | HDNet? |
| 17:28.47 | mindjuju | nope, comcast |
| 17:29.00 | mindjuju | for those of us with tvs older than 7 years |
| 17:29.03 | dataw0lf | I watched it on HDNet or whatever that channel name is |
| 17:29.29 | dataw0lf | I can't watch football without HD anymore. |
| 17:29.30 | mindjuju | but let me tell you, watching TV on my 27" TV is pure pleasure! |
| 17:29.34 | dataw0lf | it's like a cupcake without the frosting |
| 17:29.55 | dataw0lf | pretty nice simile, huh?! |
| 17:30.03 | drip | =/ |
| 17:30.09 | dataw0lf | totally worth it. |
| 17:30.19 | drip | yeah, I watch it at my friends house. |
| 17:30.24 | mindjuju | it's prolly good that you have high def tv, dataw0lf, cause you'll need it if you ever go up against me in halo2 |
| 17:30.30 | dataw0lf | HAHAHAHA |
| 17:30.42 | mindjuju | give you a fighting chance |
| 17:30.52 | dataw0lf | I'm glad I was leaning over my desk, or I would've fallen out of my chair |
| 17:31.20 | dataw0lf | so get this |
| 17:31.25 | dataw0lf | I had a dream I was IRCing last night |
| 17:31.28 | dataw0lf | honestly |
| 17:31.31 | dataw0lf | is that pathetic or what? |
| 17:31.33 | swb | really? |
| 17:31.50 | mindjuju | who were you talking to in IRC? |
| 17:31.52 | dataw0lf | yes, I was arguing with someone about something |
| 17:31.57 | swb | wait, oh, phew |
| 17:31.57 | dataw0lf | can't remember |
| 17:32.01 | dataw0lf | I think I was in #uphpu |
| 17:32.01 | swb | lol |
| 17:32.23 | dataw0lf | when I woke up I thought I was just remembering yesterday |
| 17:32.34 | drip | i guess that's better than #toosexyformyshirt |
| 17:32.48 | dataw0lf | they changed the channel name |
| 17:32.52 | dataw0lf | #toosexyforyourshirt |
| 17:32.57 | drip | lol |
| 17:34.20 | dataw0lf | extracting data from Excel into a MySQL database sucks |
| 17:34.56 | jsmith | Can't you point a DSN at the Excel file and then use ODBC? |
| 17:36.03 | timinator | Excel -> MySQL?? |
| 17:36.03 | dataw0lf | That's what I'm doing. But I'm having alot of problems with how these jacka$$es organized the data |
| 17:36.11 | timinator | I have experience w/ that |
| 17:36.26 | timinator | if you need a hand |
| 17:36.29 | dataw0lf | I have alot of experience with it. Doesn't make it any less suckier. |
| 17:36.34 | dataw0lf | no I'm good. thanks though. |
| 17:36.34 | timinator | true |
| 17:36.42 | timinator | cool |
| 17:37.04 | swb | conversion doesn't suck, data sucks |
| 17:37.07 | swb | haha |
| 17:38.01 | dataw0lf | it all sucks! |
| 17:38.04 | dataw0lf | KHAAAAAAAAN! |
| 17:40.07 | jsmith | Good ol' data massage |
| 17:41.03 | swb | dataw0lf, take this quiz: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15014682/site/newsweek/ |
| 17:41.33 | dataw0lf | the answer is a resounding YES |
| 17:41.47 | dataw0lf | but I'll take it |
| 17:42.05 | swb | err, take the quiz if you _want_ to |
| 17:45.47 | watermouse | so |
| 17:45.53 | watermouse | as im taking this test |
| 17:45.58 | watermouse | I realize I am pretty dumb |
| 17:46.04 | dataw0lf | 100% |
| 17:46.10 | watermouse | serious? |
| 17:46.12 | watermouse | hah |
| 17:46.13 | dataw0lf | yes. |
| 17:46.28 | swb | I'll take your word for it... but I thought the premise of the article was super interesting |
| 17:46.34 | dataw0lf | government questions? puh-leeze. |
| 17:46.54 | swb | I got the highest spending question wrong |
| 17:46.59 | swb | I guessed military |
| 17:47.31 | dataw0lf | nah |
| 17:47.31 | beandog | whats the right answer? |
| 17:47.31 | dataw0lf | social security. |
| 17:48.07 | dataw0lf | I can't believe such a small percentage of college seniors didn't know where the separation of church and state originated from. |
| 17:49.07 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=herlo@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:49.14 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 17:52.05 | dataw0lf | is there a 'find' equivalent on Windows XP Pro? |
| 17:52.06 | *** join/#uphpu watermou1e (n=byronw@66.236.72.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:52.21 | watermou1e | wtf |
| 17:53.09 | fungus | There is an oversimplified GUI version. |
| 17:54.14 | dataw0lf | yea, I need a command line equiv. |
| 17:54.42 | fungus | cygwin? :) |
| 17:56.37 | dataw0lf | meh, I hate cygwin. |
| 17:56.58 | dataw0lf | oh well, I'll use Python. |
| 17:57.49 | swb | meh: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/8753/ |
| 17:59.02 | dataw0lf | hehe, awesome. |
| 17:59.21 | swb | I want it |
| 18:00.25 | dataw0lf | I'm ordering as we speak. |
| 18:00.43 | swb | http://www.publicradio.org/columns/futuretense/2006/11/27.shtml |
| 18:03.23 | dataw0lf | Where do they come up with these names? 'Curbly'. What does that mean? |
| 18:03.32 | dataw0lf | "That's a really curbly road." |
| 18:03.33 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 18:03.40 | swb | good point, I hadn't thought of that |
| 18:04.08 | swb | thought you'd be interested cuz it's a home improvement related |
| 18:04.12 | swb | story |
| 18:04.34 | dataw0lf | I think these companies have a random, phonetically sound word generator. |
| 18:04.39 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|w__ (n=xilch@66.236.72.101.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:05.05 | dataw0lf | swb: Sorry, my negativity took hold again. |
| 18:05.11 | dataw0lf | interesting idea. |
| 18:05.43 | swb | curb as in curb appeal? |
| 18:06.34 | dataw0lf | well, they're curbing the appeal, that's for sure. |
| 18:06.37 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 18:07.57 | dataw0lf | now, the Junk Brothers, that's a good show. |
| 18:08.26 | dataw0lf | and reZONED |
| 18:09.46 | dataw0lf | yes I watch alot of HGTV. Ruth England is hot. |
| 18:18.24 | timinator | hey guys |
| 18:18.38 | swb | what's up timinator? |
| 18:18.50 | timinator | what's the best way to force an error if the user doesn't have flash? |
| 18:19.13 | timinator | and another for missing JavaScript? |
| 18:19.59 | *** join/#uphpu watermouse (n=byronw@66.236.72.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:21.17 | swb | I'm not sure about flash |
| 18:21.58 | wps | adobe has established was for detecting and communicating that |
| 18:22.07 | swb | do you want to force an error though, or just defer to non-scripted versions when js is off |
| 18:22.14 | swb | aka unobstrusive javascript |
| 18:22.15 | fungus | Don't force an error if they don't have flash. |
| 18:22.31 | fungus | Just reduce the functionality a little. |
| 18:23.00 | dataw0lf | Flash can be detected via navigator.plugins with JavaScript |
| 18:23.16 | dataw0lf | and navigator.mimeTypes |
| 18:23.41 | swb | helpful? -> http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/download/detection_kit/ |
| 18:24.17 | dataw0lf | and JavaScript 'detection' is just a matter of smart uses of <noscript> |
| 18:25.22 | dataw0lf | but I agree with fungus; a site should gracefully degrade, not just redirect to an error. |
| 18:27.28 | fungus | I have seen some sites that just overlay the flash component on top of something else they want to improve. |
| 18:28.00 | fungus | w/o flash it gracefully degrades to a static image, w/ flash it bounces and wiggles and such. |
| 18:28.12 | dataw0lf | yea, I've seen that approach often. |
| 18:28.29 | swb | fungus, how's work? |
| 18:29.04 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@199.227.185.35) |
| 18:29.04 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.24 | timinator | checking the adobe kit |
| 18:29.29 | swb | or wait, maybe you can't talk about work AT work |
| 18:32.49 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|w_ (n=xilch@66.236.72.101.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:33.41 | dataw0lf | morning xilch|w_ |
| 18:38.35 | fungus | ok, i guess. I had to come in early today to replace a CPU fan. |
| 18:40.59 | *** join/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:40.59 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 18:41.29 | timinator | dangit |
| 18:41.44 | timinator | comp crashed |
| 18:41.58 | timinator | haven't had that in about a year |
| 18:42.46 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=herlo@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:42.54 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 18:43.28 | timinator | holy moly... that flash detection kit.... it has a 20 page manual !!! |
| 18:44.04 | timinator | I was hoping for a: <noflash>You need Flash</noflash> |
| 18:44.35 | swb | that'd be nice |
| 18:45.06 | herlo | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:45.37 | swb | ? |
| 18:47.18 | herlo | swb: we give voice to those we trust |
| 18:47.28 | herlo | or rather, the ops do |
| 18:47.35 | swb | ohhh, an irc thing? |
| 18:47.40 | herlo | swb: yeah |
| 18:47.46 | swb | :) |
| 18:47.52 | herlo | macnewbold wrote a little script to give us all voice |
| 18:47.56 | macnewbold | sup |
| 18:48.04 | macnewbold | well, kinda |
| 18:48.08 | macnewbold | we set up ChanServ to do it |
| 18:48.15 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v swb] by macnewbold |
| 18:48.27 | herlo | http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/changuide.html |
| 18:48.38 | herlo | swb: that might help you some. It covers voice a little. |
| 18:48.54 | herlo | macnewbold: yeah, but it's still a script right? |
| 18:49.12 | macnewbold | yes, but I didn't write it :) |
| 18:49.46 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+vv com4 dataw0lf] by ChanServ |
| 18:50.03 | *** mode/#UPHPU [-v herlo] by macnewbold |
| 18:50.21 | dataw0lf | danke. |
| 18:50.56 | dataw0lf | any ideas on that MySQL question that just came up on the mailing list? In MySQL, the only thing I can think of is a last_insert_id() hack. |
| 18:51.08 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: newer versions of MySQL don't have sequences, do they? |
| 18:51.33 | herlo | macnewbold: okay |
| 18:51.50 | dataw0lf | herlo: /msg chanserv help |
| 18:51.54 | herlo | macnewbold: why take away my voice? |
| 18:52.02 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by macnewbold |
| 18:52.03 | macnewbold | okay fine |
| 18:52.03 | herlo | dataw0lf: yeah, I know |
| 18:52.04 | macnewbold | ;) |
| 18:52.25 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: I've never heard about them adding sequences to MySQL, but I hvaen't seen the list of 5.1 new features |
| 18:52.36 | dataw0lf | I checks |
| 18:52.42 | macnewbold | I haven't looked a the question yet |
| 18:52.47 | macnewbold | but triggers might help it sounds like |
| 18:52.58 | dataw0lf | ah, true |
| 18:53.11 | macnewbold | you could implement a kind of sequences thing with triggers, by making it update stuff magically after insert |
| 18:53.17 | dataw0lf | just wants an auto incremented value to cycle back to 1 after hitting 9999 |
| 18:53.22 | macnewbold | uh? |
| 18:53.31 | macnewbold | yeah, a trigger would work probably, |
| 18:53.31 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40a.dsl.aros.net) |
| 18:53.35 | macnewbold | or do it in PHP |
| 18:53.55 | dataw0lf | I think he might have had some reasoning against app logic |
| 18:55.50 | xilch|w_ | morning dataw0lf |
| 19:00.52 | beandog | wps: Im in the same boat about webmail. local app > * |
| 19:01.14 | wps | for sure |
| 19:01.22 | wps | how many computers do people really use? |
| 19:01.26 | wps | work… home… where else? |
| 19:01.43 | wps | set up IMAP for work and home and you're set |
| 19:01.49 | jsmith | home, work, laptop, cell phone |
| 19:02.24 | wps | web clients have their purpose, but I could never use one for normal use |
| 19:02.46 | jsmith | No kidding... |
| 19:05.57 | dataw0lf | I hate em. |
| 19:06.01 | dataw0lf | except for GMail. |
| 19:07.57 | macnewbold | gmail is the only one I can stand for very long |
| 19:08.07 | macnewbold | but I use it in tandem with a local mail app |
| 19:08.12 | dataw0lf | it's pretty slick. |
| 19:08.12 | wps | I use gmail, but I POP it down |
| 19:08.26 | beandog | yah |
| 19:08.30 | dataw0lf | yea, same here, but the interface is pretty much as swell as you can get for a web client. |
| 19:08.31 | beandog | thing I dont like about gmail is you can only pop it once. |
| 19:08.50 | wps | I sure wish they would provide IMAP |
| 19:08.55 | dataw0lf | no kidding. |
| 19:09.05 | wps | I sure wish my dumb employer would provide IMAP |
| 19:09.09 | wps | POP sucks |
| 19:09.16 | dataw0lf | I sure wish I didn't have to use Outlook for work. |
| 19:09.21 | wps | eek |
| 19:09.25 | dataw0lf | ya |
| 19:09.29 | timinator | Outlook really sucks |
| 19:09.35 | dataw0lf | ya |
| 19:09.36 | beandog | The thing that consntatly amazes me is how many email providers *still* dont offer POP3S |
| 19:10.12 | mindjuju | oh yeah! outlook rox! |
| 19:10.37 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: hey, is that post I just made to the ML proper MySQL trigger syntax? |
| 19:10.45 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: you sux |
| 19:10.52 | macnewbold | no idea, I don't use triggers |
| 19:11.16 | dataw0lf | yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaggggggggh |
| 19:11.20 | dataw0lf | still better than Apple Mail |
| 19:11.28 | timinator | apple rocks |
| 19:11.43 | timinator | ~lart datawolf |
| 19:12.01 | fungus | long live mutt |
| 19:12.02 | dataw0lf | the only thing that apples have that are similar to rocks is that they break windows fairly easily, and they sink quickly in water. |
| 19:12.07 | dataw0lf | mutt fope lyfe |
| 19:12.41 | timinator | my mac powerbook just crashed for the first time in A YEAR !!! |
| 19:12.50 | fungus | Thunderbird is ok too though. |
| 19:12.51 | macnewbold | what did you do to it? |
| 19:12.57 | dataw0lf | that's funny, because my laptop doesn't ever crash. |
| 19:12.58 | timinator | and it happened after I launched WINDOWS |
| 19:13.13 | dataw0lf | Crashing is the argument of the weak. |
| 19:13.20 | timinator | true |
| 19:13.20 | dataw0lf | and I don't use Windows except for at work. |
| 19:13.39 | timinator | having unix under the hood is nice |
| 19:13.42 | fungus | OSX is better than windows, but is still non-free. |
| 19:13.47 | dataw0lf | fungus: so true |
| 19:13.55 | dataw0lf | timinator: yea, except they completely screwed it up. |
| 19:14.07 | dataw0lf | it's about as Unix as Lindows. |
| 19:14.39 | fungus | Yeah, NetInfo sucks ass |
| 19:14.47 | wps | ain't that the truth |
| 19:14.48 | fungus | err, bum |
| 19:14.57 | dataw0lf | and their FS directory structure |
| 19:15.02 | dataw0lf | and their shell scripting |
| 19:15.09 | synic | why does jaguar require a firewire port? |
| 19:15.23 | timinator | Windows sucks ass in every way, DW... are you seriously sticking up for windows? |
| 19:15.31 | fungus | But Apple did do launchd with Tiger, and it is pretty cool. |
| 19:15.32 | dataw0lf | timinator: What are you talking about? |
| 19:15.38 | wps | launchd rocks |
| 19:15.49 | wps | I hope that it catches on outside of Mac OS |
| 19:15.50 | dataw0lf | Just because someone makes fun of Apple, doth not mean they are sticking up for Windows. |
| 19:15.56 | synic | er.. I guess jaguar required USB, and tiger required firewire |
| 19:16.03 | dataw0lf | I'm about as anti Windows as you get |
| 19:16.11 | synic | in either case, it's a ploy to get you to buy more hardware for no reason. |
| 19:16.11 | wps | what do you mean synic? |
| 19:16.15 | fungus | Windows < OSX < Linux < BSD |
| 19:16.21 | dataw0lf | Who here has seen me operate a Windows computer for more than 5 minutes? |
| 19:16.24 | wps | the OS requiring a certain type of port? |
| 19:16.30 | synic | wps: yes |
| 19:16.39 | wps | I'm not aware of that |
| 19:16.48 | synic | it won't install if you don't have a firewire port. |
| 19:16.50 | dataw0lf | Windows < OSX < BSD < a variety of commercial Unices < Linux |
| 19:16.56 | wps | really? |
| 19:16.59 | synic | even if you don't ever use firewire. |
| 19:17.06 | dataw0lf | wps: tis true. |
| 19:17.25 | timinator | I though you were putting windows above MacOS |
| 19:17.33 | synic | timinator: now that's just crazy talk! |
| 19:17.34 | synic | hehe |
| 19:17.40 | dataw0lf | they both have their advantages. |
| 19:17.49 | dataw0lf | you can run Visual Studio on Windows. |
| 19:17.50 | fungus | commercial unix? ick. |
| 19:17.56 | fungus | it's still non-free |
| 19:17.58 | dataw0lf | fungus: jea, you hippie |
| 19:18.22 | dataw0lf | oh, I forgot an OS to add in there |
| 19:18.40 | dataw0lf | IOS < .. < .. < .. < .. < Windows < BSD < some commercial Unices < Linux |
| 19:19.08 | beandog | tofu is non-free, you hypocrite. |
| 19:19.14 | dataw0lf | rol |
| 19:19.21 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:19.59 | fungus | Well actually not the pot part in the past 5 years. :( |
| 19:20.22 | dataw0lf | you don't have to be a pothead to be a hippie |
| 19:20.30 | dataw0lf | it sure does help with all the illogical stuff though |
| 19:20.49 | dataw0lf | I know you are, that's why I don't mind making fun |
| 19:21.17 | synic | isn't it against some sort of hippie standard to be a programmer? |
| 19:21.40 | dataw0lf | not if you're an OPEN SOURCE programmer |
| 19:21.41 | synic | all that crazy technologie and whatnot |
| 19:21.46 | synic | er.. gy |
| 19:21.54 | synic | the snow is making me retarded. |
| 19:21.56 | synic | yeah, that's it. |
| 19:22.26 | mindjuju | comes with a visual cd |
| 19:22.31 | synic | rol |
| 19:22.33 | synic | I want one |
| 19:22.37 | fungus | No, rephrase that. FREE SOFTWARE programmer. |
| 19:23.03 | dataw0lf | you're thinking of Luddites, synic. They're, like, the Nazi form of a hippie. |
| 19:23.05 | fungus | Open Source is a term for the weak w/ no morals. |
| 19:23.30 | beandog | public domain is the only real free software license. |
| 19:23.35 | dataw0lf | sorry, I forgot that you guys love semantics |
| 19:23.43 | macnewbold | haha |
| 19:23.46 | beandog | All the other ones force you to use their license. Wheres the freedom in that? |
| 19:24.52 | dataw0lf | I open source most of my personal code, and provide it free of charge. But I could care less about charging money for and/or open sourcing a business's product. |
| 19:24.57 | dataw0lf | IP is where the problems really lie. |
| 19:25.15 | fungus | Freedom to be strip freedom from others is not really a freedom. |
| 19:25.44 | dataw0lf | listen, you're not on the commune anymore, tree hugger. We're not in a 'Give Away' society. |
| 19:25.56 | beandog | hmm, wasnt expecting that. |
| 19:26.38 | fungus | IP law needs a complete overhaul. |
| 19:26.46 | dataw0lf | sure does. |
| 19:26.50 | macnewbold | BSD doesn't force you to use any license |
| 19:26.55 | mindjuju | and while we're there, orrin needs a kick in the pants |
| 19:27.07 | macnewbold | in fact, what are the differences between BSD and public domain? |
| 19:27.23 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: I'm thinking about it. |
| 19:27.32 | beandog | BSD just says |
| 19:27.34 | beandog | Give us credit |
| 19:27.35 | beandog | jerks. |
| 19:27.40 | fungus | BSD license still keeps the copyright, and requires you to give credit. |
| 19:27.41 | beandog | I like the BSD license a lot. |
| 19:27.53 | dataw0lf | yar, it's not viral like the GPL. |
| 19:27.55 | dataw0lf | the BSD license is pretty nice. |
| 19:27.56 | fungus | public domain give up all copyrights completely. |
| 19:28.01 | beandog | but personally I prefer public domain, since I dont want anything copyrighted 95 years after Im dead. |
| 19:28.33 | fungus | public domain is the best, but GPL virally spreads freedom. |
| 19:28.48 | dataw0lf | I just say 'if you don't give me credit, I will track down your family and send them to an agonizingly painful death' |
| 19:28.52 | _psychic_ | it forces freedom |
| 19:28.53 | dataw0lf | I call it the Sociopath License. |
| 19:28.53 | fungus | BSD is good, but allows its use for evil purposes. |
| 19:29.22 | burnin | and I think the basis of IP law is fine, its merely misused today because of bad judgements. |
| 19:29.29 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: 'forcing freedom' is akin to 'burying someone so they can fly' |
| 19:29.46 | *** join/#uphpu mwingle (n=mwingle@cpe-66-87-4-209.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 19:30.41 | fungus | public domain forces freedom too. |
| 19:30.54 | fungus | you just give up all rights completely. |
| 19:30.55 | beandog | Check out these stats: |
| 19:30.57 | dataw0lf | public domain 'enables' freedom |
| 19:30.57 | burnin | preventing looting is not an impediment to freedom. |
| 19:30.57 | beandog | http://spaceparanoids.org/gentoo/gpnl/stats.php?q=license |
| 19:31.28 | dataw0lf | burnin: defining freedom to a certain group's particular idea of freedom isn't freedom at all. |
| 19:32.18 | dataw0lf | from the GPL: "These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it." |
| 19:32.40 | dataw0lf | Once a license requires you to be responsible for _whatever_, you've lost the true definition of freedom. |
| 19:33.10 | fungus | The GPL focuses on the four basic software freedoms, not total complete freedom. |
| 19:33.48 | burnin | yea, taken that way there really absolute freedom exists nowhere. |
| 19:34.02 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: The GPL forces software to be free. I think GPL zealots need to rethink the whole idea because stuff like the MIT licensing is much more free. |
| 19:34.12 | dataw0lf | The inability to close source available open source code that you have modified is not freedom. |
| 19:34.23 | beandog | Right, but then you get stuff like OS X |
| 19:34.42 | beandog | Where Apple plays the open source card, and everyone thinks they are OSS friendly, but really they are just mining it. |
| 19:34.45 | dataw0lf | I agree, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have the right to do it. |
| 19:34.46 | fungus | BSD and MIT licenses have the 4 freedoms, as well as other freedoms, but it doesn't guarantee the software to always be free. |
| 19:34.50 | burnin | dataw0lf, no, but you have the freedom to write your own code. :) |
| 19:34.50 | dataw0lf | beandog: I've been saying that for years! |
| 19:34.57 | beandog | But |
| 19:35.09 | beandog | BSD guys know what they are doing, knew that was an option, so doesnt matter, really. :) |
| 19:35.19 | dataw0lf | true enough |
| 19:35.24 | dataw0lf | I just hate two things about OS X users |
| 19:35.32 | dataw0lf | 1) they all think they're Unix geeks magically |
| 19:35.44 | dataw0lf | 2) how many open source developers fell under the spell of Apple's rape of the community |
| 19:36.30 | dataw0lf | 'omg it's Apple we are so lucky to have them HELPING us!!' |
| 19:36.31 | fungus | I disagree that Apple is raping the community. They publish all of their changes to the open source they use, even when they don't have to. |
| 19:36.35 | dataw0lf | hey kids, take a look at Xerox |
| 19:36.44 | fungus | They have also contributed new projects. |
| 19:37.28 | mindjuju | yeah, looks like this fire is starting to burn itself out |
| 19:37.29 | fungus | Although Apple's biggest evil is tempting people to use their non-free software and get them hooked. |
| 19:38.03 | dataw0lf | I've been wholly unimpressed by Apple's 'contributions' to the open source community. |
| 19:38.13 | beandog | Well I dont think they are raping, so much as they are not as pro-FOSS as I would like. |
| 19:38.19 | fungus | Apple has successfully hooked in many open source developers into their non-free clutches. |
| 19:38.35 | dataw0lf | fungus: yes, they have. |
| 19:38.56 | timinator | Camino on Mac rocks |
| 19:39.23 | dataw0lf | Hey, Safari isn't too bad, although I have crashing issues with it. It's incredibly standards compliant. |
| 19:39.25 | _psychic_ | OS X is a good mid point for some |
| 19:39.26 | dataw0lf | They did that right. |
| 19:39.35 | _psychic_ | commercially supported, but with OS underpinnings |
| 19:40.16 | mindjuju | darn, the fire went out, have to think of something to say |
| 19:40.32 | dataw0lf | nothing about the military plz |
| 19:40.33 | dataw0lf | kthnx |
| 19:40.36 | beandog | And further more, their default skins are craptastic. |
| 19:40.53 | beandog | and wheres iTunes on Linux? We *want* DRM. |
| 19:41.01 | dataw0lf | O_O |
| 19:41.02 | burnin | lol |
| 19:42.05 | dataw0lf | we can always discuss the OpenSUSE versus Ubuntu thing. |
| 19:42.23 | dataw0lf | or, the more general topic of Novell's new relationship with Microsoft. |
| 19:42.26 | burnin | does openSuSE have a future? :) |
| 19:42.42 | dataw0lf | let me look into my magic crystal ball |
| 19:42.54 | dataw0lf | ohp, all it's saying is KDE SUX |
| 19:43.03 | mindjuju | me loves SCO! |
| 19:43.10 | _psychic_ | I was just over there |
| 19:43.13 | mindjuju | all linux should bow to SCO |
| 19:43.53 | burnin | SCO no longer exists, its The SCO Group, whatever that means. |
| 19:44.17 | timinator | eek |
| 19:44.28 | beandog | burnin: its kinda like a club |
| 19:44.30 | mindjuju | i heard that George Bush uses Firefox |
| 19:44.36 | dataw0lf | NO HE DOESN'T |
| 19:44.42 | beandog | like, yo, wanna join my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Club? We'll have paper IDs |
| 19:44.42 | burnin | lol |
| 19:44.49 | mindjuju | i hear Karl Rove installed ubuntu |
| 19:44.57 | dataw0lf | NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....... |
| 19:45.09 | beandog | Yo momma uses Slackware! |
| 19:45.22 | dataw0lf | hey |
| 19:45.24 | mindjuju | heard that Chaney likes freebsd |
| 19:45.24 | dataw0lf | better than Gentoo |
| 19:45.31 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: figures. |
| 19:45.53 | burnin | dataw0lf, no worries, I know Rove uses Windows cause I have his PC in my zombie squad. |
| 19:46.46 | mindjuju | oh, that was too funny, i knew that would get a reaction |
| 19:46.56 | beandog | heh |
| 19:46.58 | mindjuju | but alas, my lunch time is over, better get back to coding |
| 19:47.09 | mindjuju | thx for the entertainment gents! |
| 19:47.10 | timinator | code code code |
| 19:47.13 | dataw0lf | I got another 15 minutes |
| 19:47.27 | dataw0lf | anyone ever used ClickTracks before? |
| 19:51.21 | dataw0lf | this code looks like a soup sandwich |
| 19:51.49 | burnin | did I drop some of my code? sorry. |
| 19:52.14 | timinator | soapy code == clean code ??? |
| 19:54.06 | dataw0lf | soup sandwich, not soapy |
| 19:54.26 | timinator | :) |
| 19:58.31 | dataw0lf | anyone know of an option for Windows gvim where when you click on a file and you have a gvim instance already, that it'll open it in a tab and not a new window? |
| 19:59.28 | herlo | dataw0lf: that'd be nice, let me know what you find out |
| 20:00.48 | com4 | mek a script to do that |
| 20:02.46 | com4 | http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=1225 |
| 20:02.54 | com4 | you could probably alter that stuff a bit |
| 20:04.54 | dataw0lf | ok, but I'm going to charge everyone who uses it ten dollars |
| 20:04.57 | dataw0lf | YOU HEAR THAT FUNGUS?! |
| 20:04.59 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 20:05.24 | fungus | As long as it is Free, I don't mind paying. |
| 20:05.43 | fungus | Free <> $0 |
| 20:06.35 | dataw0lf | I know, I know |
| 20:07.03 | mindjuju | yeah, that stuff always confused me. free as in froot loops, not as in lamb chops |
| 20:07.15 | dataw0lf | ok, that was easy |
| 20:07.20 | dataw0lf | gvim --remote-tab-silent |
| 20:07.30 | com4 | you're easy |
| 20:07.41 | dataw0lf | as pie |
| 20:17.07 | fungus | I don't think pie is all that easy really. |
| 20:17.10 | mindjuju | wps, you around? |
| 20:17.24 | mindjuju | depends on the pie, btw |
| 20:17.51 | wps | yes |
| 20:18.07 | fungus | Well I am not a good example I guess. I would starve w/o a microwave. |
| 20:18.26 | mindjuju | way cool, for images, remember how you could set the vspace or hspace and it creates a buffer around an object, is there a way to do that in CSS |
| 20:18.59 | wps | padding? |
| 20:19.38 | mindjuju | hmm... well, the div has a 2px border and i'm using padding to push the text into the middle |
| 20:19.49 | mindjuju | is there something that sits outside the border? |
| 20:20.01 | wps | margin |
| 20:20.40 | mindjuju | ugh, i'm sorry, that's sleep deprivation speaking |
| 20:20.43 | mindjuju | your right |
| 20:32.29 | dataw0lf | oh man |
| 20:32.37 | dataw0lf | who wants to see my new custom snowboard |
| 20:33.30 | wps | sure |
| 20:33.44 | dataw0lf | http://www.imagedump.com/pics/474222.jpg |
| 20:34.19 | wps | is that the Debian logo? |
| 20:34.25 | dataw0lf | oh yea |
| 20:40.15 | dataw0lf | I was going to use my default avatar : http://static.last.fm/avatar/268bc3fe2af8f93e668922989a2a54b2.jpg, but I couldn't get ahold of the artist who made it for me to get permission. |
| 20:45.01 | swb | snowboard design context: http://www.digital-web.com/news/2006/11/win_a_free_ticket_to_web_directions_north/ |
| 20:45.07 | swb | um, I meant contest |
| 20:46.09 | dataw0lf | oh, that's cool. |
| 20:46.19 | swb | then I want you to win it! |
| 20:46.53 | dataw0lf | Oh, I dunno about that, I got permission to use that Debian Matrix logo from the artist, but I don't know if he'd want me entering it into a contest. |
| 20:47.54 | swb | well, maybe he wants to enter the contest? |
| 20:48.00 | swb | or you could make a new design |
| 20:48.14 | dataw0lf | yea. I'd like to see how my avatar looks on a snowboard |
| 20:48.22 | dataw0lf | synic: you talked with Lanfear lately? |
| 20:48.32 | synic | nope |
| 20:48.34 | dataw0lf | I need her permission to use that avatar she made me. |
| 20:49.02 | dataw0lf | oh, wait, she's in myspace friend list, I'll message her. |
| 20:50.38 | dataw0lf | oonf oonf oonf |
| 20:53.38 | Black_Chaos | so I need to run a long intensive php script at the click of a button through a web interface |
| 20:53.50 | Black_Chaos | If I just let it run in the browser it times out |
| 20:54.12 | Black_Chaos | Is there any good way to get it to run on the system (linux)? |
| 20:54.12 | dataw0lf | change the max execution time value |
| 20:54.17 | dataw0lf | in the php.ini |
| 20:54.29 | fungus | Does the browser time out, or does PHP time out? |
| 20:54.53 | dataw0lf | I think you can call a function, too. |
| 20:54.57 | dataw0lf | set_time_limit() ? |
| 20:54.57 | Black_Chaos | browser, I believe its apache thats ending the connection |
| 20:56.17 | fungus | Do you need to see the results of this script in the browser? |
| 20:56.30 | Black_Chaos | no it just need to run |
| 20:56.56 | dataw0lf | the only other thing I can think of is that your max execution time value is high enough but the Apache timeout setting is < php max exec |
| 20:57.09 | fungus | Then fork off the script from the page that the button loads. |
| 20:57.43 | Black_Chaos | fungus: How would I do that? |
| 20:59.08 | fungus | probably something like <?php exec("/usr/local/bin/php /path/to/script.php"); ?> |
| 21:00.19 | dataw0lf | does the script need to share variables with the parent PID? |
| 21:00.24 | fungus | oh, and add "> /dev/null 2>&1 &" to the end of it too, so it will stay running in the background. |
| 21:00.44 | dataw0lf | I'd use the pcntl_* functions |
| 21:01.36 | dataw0lf | if you need the environment that the process is being forked from, namespace, etc |
| 21:03.00 | fungus | pcntl_* functions are great if you need environment, or need to control the process. but exec() is much simpler. |
| 21:03.24 | dataw0lf | sure it is. but it's a hack. |
| 21:03.29 | fungus | Be sure to read about how forking works before jumping in to pcntl |
| 21:03.49 | fungus | Yes it is a hack, but his needs sound pretty simple right now. |
| 21:04.03 | dataw0lf | obviously, if he doesn't need process control, namespace control or other environmental issues, might as well use exec() |
| 21:04.31 | fungus | Exactly my point. If he does want those things, then exec() would be very bad. |
| 21:04.53 | Black_Chaos | how would you ensure that somebody doesn't click the button twice and make the script run 2 instances? |
| 21:04.55 | dataw0lf | I just like to know the status of processes without having to write to the filesystem |
| 21:05.56 | dataw0lf | Black_Chaos: it's probably a bad idea in general to have uninhibited process creation without some sort of trust relationship with the user |
| 21:05.57 | fungus | That is something you need to handle in your forked script. |
| 21:06.19 | dataw0lf | and if there is a trust relationship, use the model to flag if they're running that particular script |
| 21:07.09 | fungus | It is pretty simple to check for a lockfile of some kind, create it, run your stuff, then delete the lock file. |
| 21:07.44 | dataw0lf | I guess it depends on what the operation of the script is. |
| 21:10.26 | fungus | If your script could cause damage if it is run twice, then it is imperative that you do some kind of lockfile checking. Even "trusted" users can make a mistake and click twice. |
| 21:11.25 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@199.227.185.35) |
| 21:11.25 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 21:13.03 | fungus | A drawback of lockfile methodology: If your script dies before deleting the lockfile, you have to manually remove the lockfile before the script will run again. |
| 21:14.02 | dataw0lf | fungus: Sure, but if they've been flagged as running the script, and you check that before the script is actually executed... |
| 21:14.56 | dataw0lf | combine that with pcntl*, and you can use that flag to represent all sorts of behavior |
| 21:15.04 | fungus | ahh, I see what you mean. manage state of the running script externally. |
| 21:15.18 | dataw0lf | for example, if the process dies midway through, you can change the flag to represent that, after getting that info from pcntl |
| 21:15.20 | dataw0lf | correct |
| 21:15.31 | fungus | That could work really well. |
| 21:15.37 | dataw0lf | it does. |
| 21:19.15 | synic | I've noticed that rsync can get really out of hand. |
| 21:19.33 | dataw0lf | obviously, that's only important for any operation that you can conceive a multi state tracking / control need for. |
| 21:19.34 | synic | it will pwn if you let it. |
| 21:20.09 | dataw0lf | synic: you're just not firm with it. You have to rub it's nose in it if it makes a mistake. |
| 21:20.18 | synic | srsly. |
| 21:20.46 | dataw0lf | for computer applications, I've found that negative reinforcement is really the only way to go |
| 21:20.47 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 21:22.00 | fungus | rsync has a wonderful switch -n |
| 21:22.20 | fungus | test it out with that first, then take it out when you are sure it works. |
| 21:23.03 | synic | meh. I'm not worried about that. |
| 21:23.12 | herlo | fungus: that's a great switch, thanx |
| 21:23.13 | synic | it's that rsync will take over everything it possibly can and then some. |
| 21:23.20 | synic | resource wise |
| 21:23.30 | herlo | synic, run it with nice |
| 21:23.32 | fungus | ahh, that's your issue. |
| 21:23.38 | synic | yeah, it's running with nice now |
| 21:23.46 | synic | I'm just fiddling to find the exact right value, hehe |
| 21:23.48 | herlo | synic: there you go |
| 21:23.54 | herlo | yeah, probablly 12 |
| 21:23.57 | fungus | there are no fancy switches for that. |
| 21:24.01 | herlo | s/ll/l/g |
| 21:24.11 | synic | hah, yeah, it's running on 12 now :) |
| 21:24.15 | dataw0lf | synic: yea, rsync builds it's file tree in memory |
| 21:24.25 | synic | and seems to be ok |
| 21:24.48 | synic | 4MB/s bwlimit, and a nice of 12 |
| 21:24.51 | synic | seems to be ok. |
| 21:24.59 | herlo | synic: I run tons of bittornado instances, and sometimes a few of them like to hog memory, so I renice them to 12, seems to slow down resource hogs quite nicely |
| 21:25.08 | synic | brb |
| 21:26.14 | fungus | herlo: a great bt client that handles multiple downloads, rtorrent |
| 21:26.25 | beandog | rtorrent is nice. |
| 21:26.36 | herlo | fungus: btlaunchmanycurses |
| 21:26.37 | fungus | CLI of course |
| 21:26.40 | dataw0lf | herlo: I like to run bt instances as a separate user, and limit the user resource consumption itself |
| 21:26.42 | beandog | I like it because it lets you set max upload rate. |
| 21:26.44 | beandog | and download rate. |
| 21:26.46 | dataw0lf | more finegrained control |
| 21:26.47 | beandog | the default bt one sucks rocks. |
| 21:27.08 | herlo | dataw0lf: good idea, and in fact that's what I am doing, have you heard of torrentflux? |
| 21:27.20 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 21:27.30 | fungus | launchmanycurses is good, but isn't as advanced as rtorrent |
| 21:27.38 | herlo | that's what I use, because we have several people connecting and downloading over our wire... |
| 21:27.54 | herlo | fungus: I guess I'll have to have a look at rtorrent |
| 21:28.00 | dataw0lf | I just use some personal modified Python scripts. |
| 21:28.02 | herlo | fungus: convince me |
| 21:28.22 | herlo | dataw0lf: I plan on doing that in the near future, we are going to reimplement torrentflux to fit our needs better |
| 21:28.37 | fungus | You can start/stop torrents from the CLI, modify bw limits on the fly, etc. |
| 21:28.40 | herlo | or rather scrap torrentflux, and write a better multiuser client |
| 21:28.51 | herlo | fungus: sounds nice |
| 21:28.52 | dataw0lf | let me know if you need help, I know BT pretty well and can share code |
| 21:28.54 | herlo | what else? |
| 21:29.13 | herlo | dataw0lf: I know it well also, but I'd like to understand the programming better |
| 21:29.27 | fungus | You can see the list of peers, and more details than you ever want to know w/in the CLI. |
| 21:29.35 | dataw0lf | herlo: I have a very, very good handle on implementation and programming details. |
| 21:29.41 | herlo | dataw0lf: cool, tx |
| 21:29.50 | dataw0lf | np |
| 21:30.29 | fungus | I personally don't have a system resource issue w/ my BT, just a network bandwidth issue, and that is easily handled w/ packet shaping. |
| 21:30.36 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|w_ (n=xilch@66.236.72.101.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:31.18 | herlo | fungus: actually network bandwidth isn't your issue, its your upstreams issue, they just won't do anything about it without tons of extr amoney |
| 21:31.37 | herlo | s/ am/a m/g |
| 21:32.18 | herlo | fungus, it's an apache module for running a bittorrent tracker |
| 21:32.26 | herlo | http://www.crackerjack.net/mod_bt |
| 21:32.29 | fungus | Since I am in charge of the upstream too, I do have to worry. |
| 21:32.50 | herlo | fungus: but you can't be |
| 21:32.57 | herlo | you don't own the backbone |
| 21:33.08 | herlo | I know you work at Aros |
| 21:33.19 | fungus | I don't want to flood the Aros backbone. |
| 21:33.26 | fungus | I did once, it was a bad thing. |
| 21:33.32 | herlo | yeah, I bet |
| 21:34.17 | fungus | but now packetshaping has given me even more power over both BT and Tor. Yay PF. |
| 21:34.31 | dataw0lf | anyone know what the surface distance between a pair of lat/long degrees separated each by 1 degree is off the top of their head, roundabout? |
| 21:34.32 | herlo | fungus: what do you use for packet shaping? |
| 21:34.43 | fungus | PF |
| 21:34.43 | dataw0lf | pf |
| 21:34.46 | fungus | w/ altq |
| 21:34.53 | dataw0lf | iptables fope lyfe |
| 21:34.57 | fungus | On FreeBSD |
| 21:35.04 | herlo | fungus: that's what I use too, was hoping you'd've used tc |
| 21:36.21 | dataw0lf | herlo: traffic control? I use it all the time. |
| 21:36.26 | fungus | nope never used tc. I have used ipfw w/ dummynet, that ain't no fun at all. |
| 21:36.40 | fungus | almost as bad as iptables. ;) |
| 21:36.47 | dataw0lf | pshaw |
| 21:37.01 | dataw0lf | just because you can actually read your packet manipulation rules, jeez |
| 21:37.06 | herlo | tc looks pretty cool, but I've not spent the time to figure it all out |
| 21:37.15 | dataw0lf | herlo: it's nifty. |
| 21:37.32 | herlo | dataw0lf: can you give me a 5 minute tutorial sometime? |
| 21:38.31 | dataw0lf | herlo: sure, in about 30 minutes, after I finish this PHP function |
| 21:38.42 | dataw0lf | still trying to think exactly how to do it |
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| 21:42.10 | herlo | dataw0lf: no rush, I might be busy by then, but anytime we're both available is great |
| 21:42.17 | herlo | if I am not, let's do it |
| 21:42.21 | dataw0lf | herlo: Ok. |
| 21:44.14 | mindjuju | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000734.html |
| 21:45.27 | swb | ha |
| 21:48.30 | beandog | hmm |
| 21:48.33 | beandog | I like dialogues like that. |
| 21:49.19 | beandog | that guy has some *really* weird blog posts sometimes. |
| 21:49.58 | mindjuju | i went to digg to get some web 2.0 eye candy and saw the post there |
| 21:50.06 | mindjuju | haven't really looked at anything else the person wrote |
| 21:50.59 | dataw0lf | looks fine to me |
| 21:52.00 | mindjuju | yeah, that's cause your looking at it from your perspective, imagine your meemaw trying to use that app |
| 21:52.00 | dataw0lf | I dunno why you'd want to split it into alot of windows when you can just have one master dialogue |
| 21:52.20 | dataw0lf | I have no idea what a meemaw is |
| 21:53.11 | dataw0lf | but my mommy wouldn't get that far. |
| 21:53.17 | dataw0lf | the double click thing gets her every time. |
| 21:54.02 | fungus | Geez, I'd hate to see that app's "Pro Mode". |
| 21:54.04 | dataw0lf | 'You mean you can give someone a catheter but you can't summon the dexterity to double click, Mom??' |
| 21:54.16 | dataw0lf | heavy books usually start flying then |
| 21:54.37 | fungus | Oh wait, it's Pro Mode is a new shell window. :) |
| 21:54.47 | dataw0lf | that's what I'm talkin' bout |
| 21:55.00 | mindjuju | meemaw - is your grandmother |
| 21:55.29 | dataw0lf | my grandmother is an online poker hustler, from all accounts, so she may be able to handle it. |
| 21:56.17 | fungus | my "meemaw" couldn't handle any app, she decayed into oblivion years ago. |
| 21:57.09 | dataw0lf | http://thedailywtf.com/forums/thread/104148.aspx |
| 21:57.21 | fungus | Now my mother, couldn't handle a GUI with a single URL box and a single "GET" button. |
| 21:57.34 | beandog | I know |
| 21:57.40 | beandog | but wget is a CLI app to begin with. |
| 21:57.49 | beandog | grannie aint gonna be using it in the first place |
| 21:57.56 | beandog | So if its a developer app, give them developer-type options. |
| 21:57.58 | beandog | Dont dumb it down |
| 21:58.08 | dataw0lf | nonsense, my grannie hax0rz teh Gibson all the time |
| 21:58.28 | beandog | the interface should cater to the audience |
| 21:58.31 | beandog | not the LCD |
| 21:58.31 | fungus | But a developer app isn't needed for wget. It is already done. |
| 21:58.37 | fungus | it is called ... wget |
| 21:58.44 | beandog | Right, but its a GUI for wget |
| 21:58.44 | dataw0lf | wget isn't necessarily a developer's app |
| 21:59.00 | fungus | Why would a developer need a gui for wget? |
| 21:59.10 | beandog | why not? |
| 21:59.15 | beandog | Why do we need development IDEs? |
| 21:59.24 | beandog | You should know all the options anyway. |
| 21:59.27 | dataw0lf | I think the idea behind creating the GUI for wget is to make it more accessible |
| 21:59.34 | dataw0lf | to non techies |
| 21:59.46 | fungus | I could run wget much easier at a CLI than locating all those damn checkboxes. |
| 21:59.51 | beandog | lols |
| 21:59.51 | dataw0lf | because I'm pretty sure some non techies could get alot of use out of it. |
| 22:00.21 | beandog | I use GUIs as a shortcut when I dont want to find the CLI arguments |
| 22:00.32 | beandog | dvd::rip, for example |
| 22:00.33 | dataw0lf | I use GUIs when there isn't a valid CLI alternative |
| 22:00.35 | fungus | Right, if it's aim is for non-techies, then it shouldn't have all that garbage, only some of it. |
| 22:00.49 | beandog | well then its just a question of who its aim is for :) |
| 22:01.15 | dataw0lf | which brings us back to |
| 22:01.17 | dataw0lf | meema |
| 22:01.22 | fungus | My point is that no matter it's aim, it missed them all. |
| 22:01.24 | dataw0lf | or whatever the hell mindjuju said |
| 22:01.53 | mindjuju | meemaw |
| 22:01.55 | beandog | well I disagree. I find the UI refreshing and easy to use. |
| 22:02.06 | mindjuju | meemaw and paapaw |
| 22:02.10 | dataw0lf | also, development IDE is redundant |
| 22:02.14 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 22:02.16 | herlo | meema? |
| 22:02.22 | mindjuju | meemaw = grandmother |
| 22:02.24 | herlo | meemaw? |
| 22:02.29 | herlo | ahh |
| 22:02.52 | fungus | I like my GUI apps simple, clear and to the point. |
| 22:02.54 | mindjuju | course, i give my son extra money if he calls my mother granny |
| 22:03.15 | beandog | So do I, but if youre dealing with a program that has a myriad of complex options, how are you going to simplify that? |
| 22:03.35 | beandog | Sometimes the approach of "heres all the options" as a shotgun blast to the face works best |
| 22:03.50 | beandog | It sure beats having to hunt through 853 menus to find "turn off foo bar" |
| 22:05.15 | beandog | I dunno, personally, I dont think there is a good way to write a simple frontend to programs with an incredible amount of options. |
| 22:05.30 | beandog | Which is why most GUIs dumb it down and remove all the advanced stuff so you cant hurt stuff |
| 22:05.33 | beandog | GNOME comes to mind. |
| 22:05.55 | dataw0lf | someone figure out what the average square miles covered by a zipcode is, and what the surface distance between 1 degree of a latitude and 1 degree of a longitude, and I'll give them my .... uh.... respect |
| 22:06.02 | dataw0lf | I'm too lazy to figure it out |
| 22:06.04 | beandog | I dont see a problem with breaking the mold once on a while though, and having complex GUIs, or simple CLI apps. |
| 22:06.52 | dataw0lf | tis all about xfce4, brotha |
| 22:11.26 | timinator | :) |
| 22:12.12 | dataw0lf | ha, so the average lat/lon coverage of a zipcode on each side is .031! |
| 22:12.15 | dataw0lf | thanks alot guys! |
| 22:12.27 | beandog | Hmm |
| 22:12.43 | beandog | Of course, I think Gentoo is about as simple as it gets, so my opinion should probably be invalidated. |
| 22:13.00 | wps | I know how to select children and siblings in the DOM |
| 22:13.10 | wps | is it possible to select a child that is of a certain type? |
| 22:13.19 | dataw0lf | wps: define type |
| 22:13.22 | wps | ie, a child that is an "a" ? |
| 22:13.24 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Ch1os (n=admin@70-57-91-148.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:13.29 | wps | or an "li" ? |
| 22:13.40 | herlo | beandog: really? with all those options Gentoo provides, you'd think it could be quite difficult if you wanted it to be |
| 22:14.11 | wps | s/type/element/ |
| 22:14.17 | beandog | herlo: the only thing Ive ever found confusing is just running into applications or problems I dont understand |
| 22:14.29 | beandog | that didn't make any sense. |
| 22:14.43 | dataw0lf | wps: element.getElementsByTagName('li') |
| 22:15.03 | dataw0lf | where element is the parent node you're searching through |
| 22:15.40 | wps | does getElmentsByTagName match with <a name="something"> ? |
| 22:16.05 | dataw0lf | no, it matchs the tag name. |
| 22:16.09 | dataw0lf | <a> |
| 22:16.11 | wps | ah |
| 22:16.16 | wps | so, in this example… |
| 22:16.29 | wps | <div id="monkey"><li><a></a></li></div> |
| 22:16.34 | wps | to select the a… |
| 22:17.08 | wps | how would I say get the inside of #monkey? |
| 22:17.32 | dataw0lf | document.getElementById('monkey').getElementsByTagName('a') will match the a descendants of #monkey |
| 22:17.35 | wps | (funny… that's a channel on freenode :) ) |
| 22:17.50 | wps | sweet… that's exactly what I was thinking |
| 22:17.54 | wps | thanks… I'll try it |
| 22:17.56 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 22:18.27 | dataw0lf | beandog: The complexity of the distro isn't really based upon the distro itself |
| 22:18.34 | dataw0lf | It's based upon what you're doing with said distro |
| 22:18.49 | dataw0lf | You can be an idiot and get through Gentoo fine |
| 22:18.55 | dataw0lf | especially with the guides they've made available |
| 22:18.57 | dataw0lf | and not learn much |
| 22:19.12 | dataw0lf | Of course, you can be a genius and use Lindows, and learn quite a bit. |
| 22:20.46 | wps | is Lindows still doing stuff? |
| 22:20.52 | wps | I haven't heard about them for a while |
| 22:21.08 | tierra | yeah, only it's Linspire now |
| 22:21.09 | dataw0lf | I think they became Linspire. |
| 22:21.13 | wps | ah… yes |
| 22:21.23 | wps | still… haven't heard about Linspire in a while either |
| 22:21.46 | tierra | they run deals with DeviantArt frequently, so I hear about them on occasion |
| 22:22.16 | dataw0lf | I've found that for a beginner, the 'complexity' of the distro itself is rather useless to consider, granted that the user in question wants to learn something. |
| 22:22.25 | dataw0lf | A more important consideration is the community behind the distro. |
| 22:22.47 | dataw0lf | and, Gentoo has a pretty damn good community, true. |
| 22:22.53 | beandog | huzzah :D |
| 22:23.47 | dataw0lf | don't get your hopes up. I still think Gentoo is for suckers. |
| 22:23.49 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 22:24.16 | beandog | buh |
| 22:24.33 | dataw0lf | alright, I've finished that function, herlo |
| 22:25.02 | dataw0lf | let me know when you want that tc rundown. |
| 22:25.53 | herlo | now is good, how long will it take, I have to leave at 3:45 |
| 22:25.58 | herlo | datawolf |
| 22:26.00 | herlo | dataw0lf: |
| 22:26.01 | dataw0lf | dunno |
| 22:26.14 | herlo | okay, well start and lets see how far we get |
| 22:26.16 | herlo | pm? |
| 22:26.22 | herlo | or not to pm, that is the question |
| 22:26.29 | dataw0lf | yea, unless anyone else wants to hear about tc? |
| 22:26.45 | herlo | we could do it in here, unless anyone objects |
| 22:27.00 | dataw0lf | anyone have a problem with me giving a technical explanation of 'tc'? |
| 22:27.09 | swb | np |
| 22:27.13 | dataw0lf | k |
| 22:27.17 | dataw0lf | alright herlo |
| 22:27.22 | herlo | okay dataw0lf |
| 22:27.24 | dataw0lf | do you understand the four major topics of tc |
| 22:27.26 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 22:27.41 | dataw0lf | policing, scheduling, dropping, and shaping? |
| 22:27.44 | herlo | uh, not really. I think I've read the man pages a couple times... |
| 22:28.01 | herlo | the scheduling, dropping, and shaping seem self-explanatory though |
| 22:28.35 | dataw0lf | dang, I don't know if we have enough time |
| 22:28.54 | dataw0lf | do you have any outright questions? |
| 22:28.58 | herlo | give me usage, and explain as you go, I think I can pick it up |
| 22:29.08 | herlo | a simple example woudl be good. |
| 22:29.39 | herlo | my intentions of using tc were to be able to control individual / multiple streams of traffic by just running it |
| 22:29.57 | herlo | bittorrent was my original intent |
| 22:30.01 | dataw0lf | dang this is hard to explain |
| 22:30.14 | dataw0lf | ok, you have qdiscs and classes |
| 22:30.22 | dataw0lf | tc qdisc <options> |
| 22:30.31 | dataw0lf | tc class <options> |
| 22:30.55 | dataw0lf | you'll usually set up a qdisc as a root |
| 22:30.55 | herlo | right |
| 22:30.59 | dataw0lf | and add classes underneath it |
| 22:30.59 | herlo | k |
| 22:31.00 | dataw0lf | so |
| 22:31.21 | dataw0lf | tc qdisc add dev <device> root handle id# |
| 22:31.44 | herlo | so something like tc qdisc add dev eth0 root handle id 1 |
| 22:31.46 | herlo | ? |
| 22:32.14 | dataw0lf | tc class add dev <dev> parent <qdiscnumber> classid <parentid>:<classid> <options> |
| 22:32.17 | dataw0lf | right |
| 22:32.50 | dataw0lf | with that class, you can use the <options> field to set various rates, max limits, etc |
| 22:32.57 | dataw0lf | so basically your qdisc is your container |
| 22:33.01 | dataw0lf | and your classes are derived from it |
| 22:33.05 | dataw0lf | or you can derive classes from classes |
| 22:34.13 | dataw0lf | let's see |
| 22:34.17 | dataw0lf | you can delete tc's with |
| 22:34.26 | dataw0lf | qdiscs rather |
| 22:34.43 | dataw0lf | tc qdisc del dev <dev> <qdiscname> |
| 22:34.49 | dataw0lf | so to delete the above qdisc |
| 22:34.54 | dataw0lf | tc qdisc del dev eth0 root |
| 22:35.04 | herlo | so can you explain qdiscs a bit? |
| 22:35.37 | dataw0lf | a qdisc is a queueing discipline |
| 22:35.48 | dataw0lf | each interface has one egress and one ingress qdisc |
| 22:35.50 | herlo | so it's a way of saying this stream has this much bandwidth? |
| 22:36.24 | dataw0lf | um, yea, kinda |
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| 22:36.34 | dataw0lf | it's a way to receiving requests from the kernel |
| 22:36.36 | herlo | so why do they have to use such technical terms like egress and ingress |
| 22:36.47 | herlo | I know what they mean, but still |
| 22:36.59 | dataw0lf | it's kernel network programmers, don't ask me |
| 22:37.01 | herlo | stupid PhD students ;) |
| 22:37.21 | dataw0lf | basically, to have a bunch of 'rules' (classes), you need a qdisc to talk to the kernel |
| 22:37.26 | dataw0lf | classes talk to the qdisc |
| 22:37.26 | herlo | okay |
| 22:37.39 | herlo | so I setup a qdisc, then I setup classes based upon the qdisc right? |
| 22:37.43 | dataw0lf | right |
| 22:37.59 | dataw0lf | sorry, in the above example tc qdisc add dev eth0 root handle id 1 |
| 22:38.00 | herlo | how do you create a class based upon the qdisc? did I miss that? |
| 22:38.01 | dataw0lf | it would be |
| 22:38.13 | dataw0lf | tc qdisc add dev eth0 root handle id 1: |
| 22:38.21 | dataw0lf | because every object needs a major and minor number |
| 22:38.31 | herlo | okay |
| 22:38.32 | dataw0lf | to create a class inside that qdisc, you'd do |
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| 22:39.05 | dataw0lf | tc class add dev eth0 parent 1 classid 1:2 <options> |
| 22:39.18 | dataw0lf | basically, these classes hold packets |
| 22:39.23 | dataw0lf | the kernel wants to send out a packet |
| 22:39.28 | dataw0lf | it tells qdisc this |
| 22:39.33 | herlo | so what does the 'parent 1' and the 'classid 1:2' represent? |
| 22:39.45 | dataw0lf | and the qdisc passes on a dequeue request |
| 22:39.59 | dataw0lf | both 1s represent the qdisc container |
| 22:40.06 | herlo | dataw0lf: you are right, there's a lot here to understand |
| 22:40.08 | dataw0lf | the 2 represents the minor number that represents that class |
| 22:40.31 | dataw0lf | yea :\ |
| 22:40.31 | herlo | ahh, so because I did id 1: I can now say 1:2 or 1:3 |
| 22:40.31 | herlo | for my classid |
| 22:40.31 | dataw0lf | right |
| 22:40.48 | herlo | now I have classes, what's next? |
| 22:41.10 | dataw0lf | hmmm |
| 22:41.12 | olds | sup there dw |
| 22:41.15 | dataw0lf | sup olds |
| 22:41.23 | dataw0lf | dang dude, I just don't think I have enough time |
| 22:41.33 | herlo | it's okay, we can continue later, if that's okay |
| 22:41.35 | dataw0lf | it's hard to figure out what to tell you in terms that'll help |
| 22:41.44 | dataw0lf | I can write up a couple pages that will help alot more, if you want |
| 22:42.01 | herlo | I'd like to spend some more time later and do a real life example if that would be okay |
| 22:42.06 | dataw0lf | sure |
| 22:42.11 | herlo | and yes, a couple more pages would definitely help |
| 22:42.54 | herlo | thanx dataw0lf |
| 22:44.23 | dataw0lf | np |
| 22:44.23 | dataw0lf | cya |
| 22:44.38 | wps | can you load an additional style sheet using onresize in the opening body tag? |
| 22:44.55 | wps | you'd probably have to call a javascript function |
| 22:45.10 | dataw0lf | interesting question, yea, you'd probably have to use javascript |
| 22:45.16 | wps | so the question should probably be: can you load an additional style sheet with javascript? |
| 22:45.27 | dataw0lf | sure. |
| 22:45.47 | wps | will you tell me how? |
| 22:45.55 | mindjuju | yeah, i've been to several sites that allow you to change the color schema on a button click without refreshing the page |
| 22:46.10 | wps | ah… yes… duh… hadn't thought of that application |
| 22:46.20 | wps | nevermind… I'll go do a little source viewing |
| 22:46.35 | synic | ... I hope those are supposed to be ellipses |
| 22:46.36 | dataw0lf | wps: just use document.write(<css link code>); |
| 22:47.41 | wps | is "…" not coming through as an ellipsis for you? |
| 22:47.55 | dataw0lf | Nope. |
| 22:48.02 | wps | hmm |
| 22:48.09 | dataw0lf | but I'm on probably the worst irc client I've ever used, so.. |
| 22:48.11 | mindjuju | comes through fine for me |
| 23:03.35 | dataw0lf | whoa, new features to Gmail |
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| 23:10.39 | dataw0lf | jeez, synic |
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| 23:21.11 | dataw0lf | I was supposed to hook someone up with a perpendicular hard drive, and I ended up keeping it, basically. |
| 23:23.43 | mindjuju | _psychic_ check this out |
| 23:23.56 | mindjuju | ugh, paste malfunction! |
| 23:23.58 | mindjuju | hang on |
| 23:25.04 | mindjuju | http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_head/pr/PerpendicularAnimation.html |
| 23:25.49 | Black_Chaos | I love that cartoon |
| 23:27.16 | mindjuju | has anybody here used dojo? |
| 23:27.16 | dataw0lf | the PA today is totally mindjuju |
| 23:27.52 | dataw0lf | nope. |
| 23:28.08 | mindjuju | bummer, like the functionality, friendly with openlaszlo, i'm thinking of implementing it |
| 23:28.19 | dataw0lf | AJAX sux |
| 23:28.38 | _psychic_ | goodness |
| 23:28.38 | mindjuju | oh come on, you like it |
| 23:28.48 | _psychic_ | I'm thinking they don't know their audience |
| 23:28.48 | dataw0lf | I like using sites that implement it. |
| 23:28.57 | dataw0lf | Implementing it myself? Not so much. |
| 23:29.04 | mindjuju | yeah, true that |
| 23:29.28 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: easy stuff with the JS frameworks out now-a-days |
| 23:29.42 | dataw0lf | I hate every JS framework I've used. |
| 23:29.44 | dataw0lf | *shrug* |
| 23:29.51 | _psychic_ | which are... ? |
| 23:29.57 | dataw0lf | I haven't used JSON yet, I've heard it's easier to wrangle than XML |
| 23:30.25 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I don't think your screen buffer is large enough to take my response to that |
| 23:32.08 | mindjuju | i think dojo looks awesome |
| 23:32.26 | dataw0lf | Spry, Sajax, Clorox, every Python AJAX framework known to man, others I can't remember now |
| 23:32.46 | mindjuju | i wondered about spry from adobe |
| 23:32.58 | dataw0lf | yea, a couple teams here use it religiously. |
| 23:32.58 | mindjuju | the parts i saw were cool when they worked |
| 23:33.30 | mindjuju | maybe i should check out spry one last time, i check it a couple of months ago |
| 23:33.36 | dataw0lf | it sux |
| 23:33.55 | mindjuju | maybe it suxed then but rox now? |
| 23:34.19 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: why exactly does it need to be a python AJAX deal? |
| 23:34.35 | dataw0lf | I dunno, I've been looking at the 1.3 prelease and it still sux |
| 23:34.43 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: what do you mean? |
| 23:34.46 | dataw0lf | It doesn't have to be. |
| 23:34.55 | _psychic_ | um, its JS |
| 23:35.03 | _psychic_ | who cares what the backend technology is? |
| 23:35.11 | dataw0lf | Python is just my favorite language, and 70 / 80% of my workload is in it. |
| 23:35.15 | dataw0lf | So, technically, I care. |
| 23:35.28 | _psychic_ | but your AJAX operations shouldn't |
| 23:35.44 | mindjuju | yeah, pound for pound, i think dojo is more developed than spry still |
| 23:35.55 | dataw0lf | My AJAX operations don't, I just said I don't use any frameworks because they all suck. |
| 23:36.04 | dataw0lf | Many frameworks, my friend, are server side language specific. |
| 23:36.14 | _psychic_ | I'm just talking about JS frameworks |
| 23:36.15 | mindjuju | v true on that dataw0lf |
| 23:36.25 | mindjuju | xajax is php |
| 23:36.29 | _psychic_ | ajax frameworks |
| 23:36.34 | mindjuju | cfcajax is {coldfusion} |
| 23:36.36 | _psychic_ | that's all front end |
| 23:36.56 | dataw0lf | what's all front end? |
| 23:37.04 | mindjuju | _psychic_, dojo is server side agnostic |
| 23:37.12 | mindjuju | afaik |
| 23:37.13 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: as it should be |
| 23:37.18 | _psychic_ | same with prototype |
| 23:37.22 | mindjuju | oh, i see your point |
| 23:37.23 | mindjuju | k |
| 23:37.30 | dataw0lf | should, would, could, you're just arguing my point. |
| 23:37.33 | dataw0lf | they suck |
| 23:37.38 | _psychic_ | I don't see why any ajax frameworks *should* be backend language dependent |
| 23:37.44 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: y? |
| 23:38.10 | dataw0lf | because there is an inordinate amount of JavaScript developers who don't know what they're doing and publish frameworks. |
| 23:38.41 | dataw0lf | JavaScript is a fairly unique language, and there are few frameworks that utilize that. |
| 23:38.46 | _psychic_ | I don't imagine dojo or script.aculo.us devs are incompetent. |
| 23:39.11 | dataw0lf | I wouldn't imagine Adobe devs are incompetent either, but the framework sucks. |
| 23:39.34 | dataw0lf | Most JavaScript developers, professionally or personally, do not use JavaScript as their formal, main language. |
| 23:39.56 | dataw0lf | So they bring a variety of language specific barriers that JavaScript offers solutions for to the JS code. |
| 23:40.47 | dataw0lf | JavaScript is kinda weird like that, because there aren't many languages like it that there are no real alternatives for. |
| 23:41.13 | _psychic_ | ActionScript, oddly enough (Adobe owned, now), is pretty similar. |
| 23:41.38 | dataw0lf | ActionScript isn't a mainstay of pretty much every web developer's toolkit. |
| 23:42.18 | _psychic_ | true, if you want to do front end scripting, its JS or nothing, almost |
| 23:42.20 | dataw0lf | but, you're right, both ActionScript and JavaScript are ECMAScript based. |
| 23:42.31 | _psychic_ | though Flash does cover some of that ground for some people |
| 23:43.25 | dataw0lf | Sure. But it's not nearly as ubiquitous as JavaScript is. Especially among developers. |
| 23:43.59 | mindjuju | ubiquitous! now there is a word i see practically everywhere |
| 23:44.12 | dataw0lf | How ironic. |
| 23:44.16 | dataw0lf | smart *** |
| 23:44.24 | beandog | :) |
| 23:44.31 | _psychic_ | You hardly ever see "extraneous" anymore, though. |
| 23:44.59 | mindjuju | ok, that was a stinker, i admit it |
| 23:45.32 | _psychic_ | I couldn't remember why we started this discussion, so it eventually decayed into really bad jokes. |
| 23:45.39 | dataw0lf | aw dude wth, my girlfriend took my car |
| 23:45.53 | mindjuju | i said i was downloading dojo toolkit |
| 23:45.55 | macnewbold | haha |
| 23:46.08 | mindjuju | which finished downloading and i'mlooking over the readme now |
| 23:46.31 | _psychic_ | ah |
| 23:46.49 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf thought all AJAX frameworks sucked, thus the ensuing frameworks discussion |
| 23:47.00 | dataw0lf | 'mine has a bigger trunk and she's getting groceries' |
| 23:47.05 | dataw0lf | pshaw |
| 23:47.18 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: s/thought/knew |
| 23:47.36 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 23:48.48 | dataw0lf | by my car having a bigger trunk I think she means she has all her ski equipment and books in the backseat of her car after a fun day of being on the slopes and going to college, so in tribute to my hard work she's going to get groceries to make dinner for < |
| 23:49.23 | dataw0lf | if only it were that easy |
| 23:50.12 | _psychic_ | anyone can borrow my car if they make dinner for me. |
| 23:50.39 | dataw0lf | yea, well, if I get anything it's going to be frozen lasagna |
| 23:50.43 | dataw0lf | which I guess isn't that bad |
| 23:52.40 | dataw0lf | I better stop complaining, she has a sixth sense to detect whether I've been talking about her within 24 hours of her getting a good look in my eye |
| 23:54.18 | _psychic_ | most women folk do |
| 23:54.22 | _psychic_ | but they cook for us |
| 23:54.35 | dataw0lf | speak for yourself. |
| 23:54.40 | _psychic_ | will do |
| 23:54.43 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 23:54.45 | _psychic_ | but mine cooks for me |
| 23:55.00 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 23:55.02 | dataw0lf | I don't think I'd want her to cook for me. |
| 23:55.07 | dataw0lf | honestly. |
| 23:55.20 | _psychic_ | my girl is an awesome cook |
| 23:55.26 | _psychic_ | but she plays this double standard |
| 23:55.38 | _psychic_ | 1. She cooks great 2. I'm expected to be trim |
| 23:55.40 | dataw0lf | my girl loves the Bears and the Colts. That's enough for me. |
| 23:55.45 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 23:55.59 | _psychic_ | yeah mine's a soccer fan |
| 23:56.08 | dataw0lf | when you get home and your girlfriend already has the game on and a beer ready, you know you're in good hands. |
| 23:56.18 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 23:57.28 | dataw0lf | and she can win in arguments against me. that's about all I look for in a girl. |
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| 23:58.18 | _psychic_ | there's more than one way to win an argument, especially when you're female. Some are good, and some are bad, though. |
| 23:58.36 | dataw0lf | oh, no, I'm talking goin toe to toe intellectually |
| 23:59.01 | _psychic_ | I figured you were (as that's a good way). |
| 23:59.17 | _psychic_ | headed home guys - cya tomorrow |
| 23:59.20 | dataw0lf | seducing me is not a win |
| 23:59.24 | dataw0lf | I've made that clear. |
| 23:59.30 | dataw0lf | cya |
| 23:59.36 | mindjuju | cya |
| 23:59.43 | _psychic_ | tis a win for me: I'm married ;) |
| 23:59.44 | _psychic_ | later |
