irclog2html for #uphpu on 20050203

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00:35.52macnewboldtierra|w, (and bigdog_ut and jsmith who are both gone already): google's dns is something really special... they were talking about it a while back in #gubug cause jlp in there interviewed with them for a job (got the offer too!) and knows all about it now
00:36.28macnewboldthey use info about web traffic volume to detect reachability of a given server from a given IP block, and redirect traffic to the nearest reachable server
00:36.45macnewboldout of about 7 or so sites (IIRC) in the US and many more in other parts of the world
00:37.05macnewboldtoo bad #gubug doesn't have jbot to log for them... if you want the IRC logs, lemme know, cause I got some
00:38.26macnewboldit's really really cool stuff
00:38.48*** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@byu074602wks.rn.byu.edu)
00:38.58tierra|wsweet, I would like a copy
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00:40.41optikal_macnewbold: heck, i'd also be interested in that
00:41.38tierra|wbbiab though... grabbing some food
00:42.07spiderbiterme too, macnewbold
00:42.11optikal_i still havent eaten lol.. im gunna grub something on the way home for sure.. being that its in 15min
00:42.16macnewboldk, I'm getting them
00:42.22optikal_u r 2 slow
00:42.27optikal_=)
00:42.46spiderbiterhey, anyone know of a place that offers free php tests?
00:43.23optikal_php tests?
00:43.25spiderbiterI've gotta run, but post any recommended sites for testing your php mysql knowledge
00:43.32optikal_ooh.
00:46.06macnewboldspiderbiter: brainbench offers theirs free from time to time
00:46.23macnewboldokay, the google stuff is posted now, tierra|w optikal_ and spiderbiter:
00:46.39macnewboldhttp://www.macnewbold.com/misc/
00:46.44macnewboldin the #gubug dir
00:46.48macnewbold4 files
00:46.55macnewboldthe conversation overlaps all 4 of them
00:52.26optikal_interesting
00:58.29optikal_laters
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05:38.07wps~uphpu archives
05:38.08jbotuphpu archives are http://ibot.rikers.org/uphpu/
05:38.43wpsjbot, no uphpu archives are http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/
05:38.44jbotokay, wps
06:30.52wpsdataw0lf: you available for a few questions about GRUB?
06:30.59wps(or anyone)
06:31.44dataw0lfwps:  whaddya need to know?
06:33.04wpsk... so I made some hardware changes to the server and reinstalled
06:33.41wpsnow, after BIOS, it comes to a screen that says GNU GRUB at the top and has a command-line type thing like...
06:33.45wpsGRUB> _
06:34.00wpsI am not sure what needs to be done
06:34.15wpsI am guessing that GRUB doesn't know what to do (ie: what to load)
06:34.27wpsand that's why it is just sitting there
06:35.05dataw0lftry typing boot first for me.
06:35.21wpsk
06:35.43wpsError 8: Kernel must be loaded before booting
06:35.57dataw0lfok, do you know what partition root is on?
06:37.11wpsumm... maybe
06:37.23dataw0lfhm well try a:
06:37.31wps`   /dev/cciss/c0d0    perhaps
06:37.40dataw0lfkernel /vmlinuz root=<partition>
06:40.32wpsis that supposed to be "linuz"? or "linux"?
06:40.48dataw0lf'linuz'
06:42.00dataw0lfsee, on my system it's kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/hda3 or something, whatever I partitioned the root filesystem as.
06:42.27dataw0lfwell, actually, it's kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.8-686 or something, but you get the picture.
06:50.45*** join/#uphpu xilch|h (~xilch@c-67-166-119-0.client.comcast.net)
06:59.50wpsI did it!
06:59.53*** join/#uphpu tierra|h (tierra@c-67-166-119-150.client.comcast.net)
06:59.54wpsI fixed GRUB
06:59.59wpswahoo
07:00.39wpsand I think that eth0 is working!!!
07:01.21wpsYEAH!!!
07:01.29wpsOS is installed and running!
07:01.39wpsand I successfully ssh'd to the server from another box
07:01.46wpscha-ching-bodda-bing!
07:03.37tierra|hbooyakasha!
07:37.52*** join/#uphpu jbot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
07:37.52*** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users - uphpu.org - Thanks to everyone who has donated!
07:47.49*** join/#uphpu xilch|h (~xilch@c-67-166-119-0.client.comcast.net)
09:15.56wpsanyone awake?
14:04.25macnewbold~uphpu archives
14:04.26jbotrumour has it, uphpu archives is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/
14:04.43macnewboldjbot, uphpu archives is also http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu/
14:04.44jbotokay, macnewbold
14:04.48*** join/#uphpu jsmith (~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com)
14:04.50macnewbold~uphpu archives
14:04.51jboti heard uphpu archives is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/, or http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu/
14:04.54macnewboldmorning, jsmith
14:05.01jsmithMornin'
14:21.50*** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu)
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14:27.05*** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users - uphpu.org - Thanks to everyone who has donated!
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16:14.06macnewboldthere was a discussion about google's DNS last night that I caught after bigdog_ut and wps had left... here's some info you might be interested in:
16:14.13macnewboldmacnewbold: tierra|w, (and bigdog_ut and jsmith who are both gone already): google's dns is something really special... they were talking about it a while back in #gubug cause jlp in there interviewed with them for a job (got the offer too!) and knows all about it now
16:14.18macnewboldmacnewbold: they use info about web traffic volume to detect reachability of a given server from a given IP block, and redirect traffic to the nearest reachable server
16:14.21macnewboldmacnewbold: out of about 7 or so sites (IIRC) in the US and many more in other parts of the world
16:14.26macnewboldmacnewbold: it's really really cool stuff
16:14.41macnewboldmacnewbold: http://www.macnewbold.com/misc/
16:14.43macnewboldmacnewbold: in the #gubug dir
16:14.45macnewboldmacnewbold: 4 files
16:14.50macnewboldmacnewbold: the conversation overlaps all 4 of them
16:15.13optikalwaz that 4 me?
16:15.46optikalthanks for posting that up tho
16:15.53optikali wasn't really curious until i read it
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16:19.27macnewboldmostly that was for bigdog_ut and wps, who were asking about it last night
16:23.12optikalaah
16:23.25macnewboldgoogle's dns magic is some really cool stuff
16:33.47bigdog_utwhatz the jist of the dns with them...i just dont have time to read it all
16:37.47macnewboldhehe
16:38.13macnewboldthey return dns results based on web traffic volume... they send you to the closest site,
16:38.28macnewboldbut if web traffic drops off from your IP block (your ISP), then the routing must be hozed
16:38.38macnewboldso they send you to a different one that you _can_ reach
16:38.46macnewboldthat way, google hardly ever appears down
16:39.37bigdog_utcool thanks
16:39.42bigdog_utcool thankz
16:55.01bigdog_utman it is quiet
16:55.28optikalhehe
16:56.55bigdog_uttell me about it
16:57.11bigdog_utthen wps ignores me while i am trying to help him last night
16:57.41wpswhat?
16:57.51wpsyou disappeared!
17:00.18bigdog_utdude i was up all night
17:00.26bigdog_utyou where gone bro
17:00.40bigdog_utall my hard work...and then neglect
17:00.44bigdog_ut:(
17:01.37wpsreally?
17:01.43bigdog_uty
17:01.48wpsabout two-thirty, you logged off suddenly
17:01.56wpsI waited around until three hoping you'd come back, but you never did
17:02.00bigdog_uti was still on
17:02.04wpsreally?
17:02.15wpssheeesh
17:02.28wpsI logged on and off a few times, but nothing
17:02.32wpslame
17:03.00wpssorry... I was still there
17:03.08wpsI thought about sending an email. I should have.
17:03.20wpsDidn't think that I should call at that hour :)
17:03.48bigdog_utyeah i was up...you can call my cell phone
17:03.56wpsdang
17:03.58wpsthat's lame
17:04.06bigdog_utdid you get it finished
17:04.06wpswould have been nice to have finished
17:04.13wpsI got apt-get working
17:04.20wpsand it says that curl is installed and up to date
17:04.34bigdog_utu need the curl-dev rpms
17:04.46wpsI showed drewbono the error and he ran it through google and found that many are having the same error
17:04.52wpsah "curl-dev"
17:05.19wpsI will try that as soon as I get home in an hour
17:05.23bigdog_utyeah you need the dev files
17:05.26bigdog_utk
17:07.22*** join/#uphpu SpeechBot (~PircBot@69.27.4.131)
17:08.08*** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@69.27.4.131)
17:08.38tbyeMorning all
17:08.52bigdog_utmornin' tbye
17:10.06macnewboldg'day
17:26.37macnewboldAny smarty users out there today? Got a quick question...
17:26.42macnewbold(or phpbb users, for that matter)
17:27.44macnewboldtbye: I don't believe you've introduced us to SpeechBot either...
17:28.29tbyeHeh... he's uhm... a friend I was introduced to on the O'reilly network today... only it was the uhmm.. J-word section...
17:28.50tbyeHe speaks whatever text shows up in the channel so I can continue to work without the channel up.
17:29.04tbyechannel window that is.
17:29.43macnewboldwell, hi there, SpeechBot... how are you today?
17:29.47synicso if I were to say things like "my boss is a monkey"
17:29.48macnewboldhm.. no answer
17:29.53synicyou're boss might think you said it?
17:30.01synicer... your
17:30.05tbyeHe might... if I weren't working from home today.
17:30.08macnewboldwhat if we said "tbye stinks tbye stinks tbye stinks"?
17:30.20synicdrat
17:30.20macnewbold"Honey, you're fat!"
17:30.20tbyelol
17:30.23tbyethat's great.
17:30.24macnewboldyou married, tbye?
17:30.27tbyeya
17:30.28tbyehehe
17:30.34macnewbolddid she hear me? :)
17:30.40macnewbold>:-)
17:30.44tbyenah... she's wrangling our 1.5 year old.
17:30.44macnewboldhehe
17:30.47macnewboldjust kidding
17:30.50macnewboldoh, you've got one too?
17:31.08tbyeOh ya... she's a blast
17:31.16macnewboldwe've got two boys 2yrs and 3.5 yrs.
17:31.26macnewboldlemme tell ya, potty training ain't fun
17:31.36optikalhah
17:31.48macnewboldoptikal laughs, cause he's still in training himself
17:31.50tbyeHehe... our little girl ditches her diaper after she "moves"... keeps us on our toes.
17:31.54tbyelol
17:31.56macnewboldyeah, fun
17:32.05optikalmacnewbold: heeey! i told u not to tell anyone.
17:32.08macnewboldso what were you saying about getting work done, tbye?
17:32.32macnewboldhehe
17:32.33macnewboldj/k
17:32.46optikali spilled my water.. i swear!
17:32.48tbyehehe... ya really
17:33.13macnewboldanybody know if smarty templates (.tpl files) can include php code directly?
17:33.21macnewboldor if they can only do template code...
17:33.32optikalnever touches tpls
17:34.17synictemplates are the only way to fly... though I don't use smarty.
17:35.04wpsyes, macnewbold, they can
17:35.12wpsyou can break out of smarty and run PHP right there
17:35.17wpsalthough that kind of defeats the point
17:36.20bigdog_uti think xslt is great for templates
17:36.29wpsindeed
17:41.57bigdog_uti think smarty is too bloated
17:42.04bigdog_utit does to much for a template system
17:44.43wpswholeheartedly
18:08.51*** join/#uphpu vontrapp (~von@user-225.kingsley2.fiber.net)
18:09.27vontrappis there a function or a special variable in php to get the referer and one to get the requested page?
18:09.35macnewboldyes
18:09.38macnewboldin $_SERVER
18:09.40bigdog_utyea
18:09.51vontrappso $_SERVER['referer']
18:09.55macnewboldREQUEST_URI and HTTP_REFERRER I think
18:10.06bigdog_utor $_REQUEST
18:10.07macnewboldif not, try a print_r($_SERVER)
18:10.15bigdog_uti think?
18:10.30bigdog_uti remember that you need to be careful with them cause they can be spoofed
18:12.20macnewboldeasily, too
18:12.28macnewboldthe request uri though is the real thing
18:12.42macnewboldcan't spoof what page you're asking for, or you'd be asking for a different page :)
18:13.03macnewboldkind of like trying to spoof the destination address of an IP packet
18:13.20bigdog_utyea for the request uri
18:25.21*** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.186.134.102)
18:25.41*** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ
18:35.17*** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu)
18:39.37*** join/#uphpu sbopti (~PircBot@69.27.4.131)
18:41.28*** join/#uphpu synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net)
18:42.18optikalhmm
18:48.33wps~sbopti
18:55.02dataw0lfevery year is getting shorter....
18:55.40wpsno kidding
18:56.23dataw0lfPink Floyd lyrics.
18:56.48tbye... one day closer to death.
19:02.08optikallol
19:02.17optikalIm sure you could recognize Comfortably Numb
19:03.52wpsanyone have any ideas about my curl problem (posted to list)?
19:04.43synicwps: libidn is what you need, it looks like
19:05.11wpslibidn is already the newest version.
19:05.11wps0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded.
19:05.25synictry ldconfig and then make
19:06.04wps[root@pedro ~]# apt-get install ldconfig
19:06.04wpsReading Package Lists... Done
19:06.04wpsBuilding Dependency Tree... Done
19:06.04wpsSelecting glibc for 'ldconfig'
19:06.05wpsglibc is already the newest version.
19:06.07wps0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded.
19:06.10wps[root@pedro ~]# make
19:06.12wpsmake: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
19:06.19synicer... ./configure
19:07.23wpssame: configure: error: There is something wrong. Please check config.log for more information.
19:07.54dataw0lf*boggle* how old are you wps?
19:08.26wps25
19:08.38dataw0lf*boggle*
19:08.45dataw0lfPink Floyd rocks.
19:08.57wpsI was a sheltered chilld
19:09.11wpsgrew up on barry manlow, anne murray, and bobby vinton
19:09.50dataw0lfheh, I grew up on Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, the Doors, etc.
19:10.16synicI grew up on Randy Travis and Kenny Rogers.
19:10.48wpsthis is when I get the most frustrated with linux... when something won't work and I have absolutely no idea what to do
19:11.02dataw0lftldp.org wps
19:11.05tbyeUltravox, Psychedelic Furs, Yello, Bronski Beat, Soft Cell... it's a wonder I'm not gay.
19:17.52macnewbold~wps++ for naming the server pedro
19:18.05macnewbold~wps++
19:18.23macnewbolddoh... adding karma with "for ..." on the end doesn't work...
19:19.45wpsany ideas about this stupid curl problem, macnewbold?
19:20.00wpsthanks, took me an entire day to come up with the name for the server
19:20.07macnewboldlemme scroll back and take a look
19:20.19wpsI wanted something only three characters in length, but couldn't come up with something I liked
19:20.35wpsI posted to he mailing list too (covers all the details)
19:20.46macnewboldah, that's probably better
19:21.00tbyeI like her bangs.
19:22.04macnewboldI think this is the magic one, wps:
19:22.10macnewbold<PROTECTED>
19:22.17macnewboldthe idn library is not found
19:22.25syniche's got it installed, though
19:22.26macnewboldtry locating it, or something that installs it
19:22.36tbyeI had that problem installing asterisk recently.
19:23.05tbyeI had to install libidn again... for some stupid reason... FC3
19:23.18macnewboldyeah, try reinstalling
19:23.32macnewboldmaybe it needs ldconfig to be run or something like that
19:23.34wpsk... how do I go about reinstalling? uninstall first with apt-get and then reinstall?
19:23.55tbyethat's what I did... rpmish of course... but ya.
19:24.32wpsso is it "libidn" or "lidn" ?
19:24.39tbyelibidn
19:25.42macnewboldthe l in lidn is the -l option of gcc, which causes it to look for "libidn"
19:25.47wpsokay... remove went fine
19:25.53macnewboldokay, try it now
19:25.55wpsbut then when I tried "apt-get install libidn"
19:26.03wpsI got: "E: Couldn't find package libidn"
19:26.19macnewboldaha!
19:26.22macnewboldthat's it, wps!
19:26.24macnewboldyou've done it!
19:26.28wps:)
19:26.34wpswhat did I do?
19:26.43macnewboldI dunno, I just wanted to say that...
19:26.44macnewbold;)
19:26.56macnewboldthis reminds me of why I like FreeBSD... :)
19:27.03wpsso how do reinstall this thing
19:27.18macnewboldhow did you remove it?
19:27.40wpsapt-get remove libidn
19:28.37wpswas that the right way to do that?
19:28.49macnewbold~google libidn apt
19:28.59tbyesynic: Are you hear?
19:29.14tbyemy ears... my ears...
19:29.18tbyemake it stop...
19:29.20tbyelol
19:29.25tbyedie speechbot die!
19:29.53macnewboldis there an apt-get command for finding if a package is locatable?
19:30.03macnewboldi.e. check your repositories and see if it's there?
19:30.06wpsdrewbono?
19:30.08macnewboldyou mihgt not have a repository listed that has it
19:30.26macnewbold~google tbye
19:30.32macnewboldhehe
19:30.38macnewboldtalk, sbopti, talk!
19:30.57wpsmacnewbold: "apt-cache search libidn" returned nothing
19:31.28macnewboldI bet it can't find it then...
19:31.33tbyeI hate myself...
19:31.51tbyeI hate my hair, I wish I was dead.
19:32.01macnewboldyou need a repo that carries the right libidn
19:32.25macnewboldso tbye, does speechbot talk when you /msg it? or just what's said in the chat room publicly?
19:35.07bigdog_utwps send me the output from the configure command...all if you can
19:36.06wpsbigdog_ut: sent
19:38.30bigdog_utokay curl_easy_perform is a function of curl
19:38.47wpsk...
19:39.01tbyeDo you absolutely need to use the libcurl version?
19:39.24synictbye: yeah, I'm here
19:39.28bigdog_utwps, will you be using curl in any apps?
19:39.32tbyeI ran into issues with it... I built a library for talking to Authorize.Net and ended up just exec'ing curl from the command line.
19:39.35wpsnot currently, no
19:39.44tbyesynic: Ever listen to JazzMusique?
19:39.44wpsjust left it in case I might want it in the future
19:39.48synictbye: nope
19:39.54wpsI am about to just yank it from the install though
19:40.02tbyehttp://www.netmusique.com
19:40.12bigdog_utyank it...it seems to be a bug
19:40.17wpsk
19:40.21tbyeI agree with bigdog
19:40.29tbyecall it from the commandline if you need it...
19:40.56bigdog_utor you can build your own curl later when you need it and recompile php with the new curl
19:41.02bigdog_uti dont like binarys
19:45.11tbyebigdog_ut: Gentoo user?
19:45.22bigdog_utyes indeed
19:45.37tbyeexplains things... hehe
19:45.46bigdog_uti love it
19:46.02bigdog_uti am looking at linux from scratch and ubuntu some as well
19:46.10tbyeI know this guy who likes to scratch at his eyes... weird...
19:46.14bigdog_utubuntu for kids and linux from scratch for me
19:46.51tbyeI'm stuck using distros that the MCSEs at work can handle.
19:47.02bigdog_utlol
19:47.05bigdog_utmandrake?
19:47.12tbyeexactly!
19:47.16tbyeFC3
19:47.20tbyethe likes...
19:47.41bigdog_uti cut my teeth on redhat6.1-7.3, mandrake7.0-10. and now gentoo
19:48.56bigdog_utno i am just old
19:48.57tbyeI once used this thing called Slackware... weird.
19:49.23bigdog_utslack is cool i used it once...did not really like
19:49.30tbyeAnyone use ActiveState Komodo for PHP?
19:49.33bigdog_utsame with cauldera and suse
19:49.59tbyePoor Darl...
19:50.21tbyeMay he not get anything he wants.
19:50.54bigdog_utlol
19:52.21synictbye: it's all about jedit
19:52.34macnewboldtbye: does sbopti speak when /msg'd to?
19:52.49bigdog_utjedit sucks
19:53.04synicyou suck!
19:53.05synichehe
19:53.18bigdog_utsynic,  nows its all about eclipse
19:55.44syniceclipse makes all of your base belong to it
19:56.19tbyemacnewbold: not sure about the bot... pretty simple.
19:56.36macnewboldlemme test it...  it's currently sbopti right?
19:56.47tbyeyes
19:56.51macnewboldsweet...
19:56.51macnewboldhehe
19:57.15tbyeIs there a pastebin?
19:57.21tbyeI'll post the code for it.
19:59.09bigdog_utall base? what?
20:00.09tbyemacnewbold: http://www.pastebin.com/237261
20:00.25synicbigdog_ut: it takes your machine over, it's a beast!
20:00.30tbyeit may burn your eyes
20:00.51bigdog_utyeah when running on a 486 it will do that to you
20:00.56synicKernel: Linux 2.6.8.1 | Distro: Arch Linux 0.7 (Wombat) | CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 3000+ @ 2167 Mhz | Mem usage: 384.7/883.8 MB (44%) | Swap usage: 112.7/953.9 MB (12%) | Disk usage(WDC WD400BB-75CLB0): 10.7/30.8 GB (35%) | Uptime: 1 wk 23 hrs 47 mins
20:01.03synichardly a 486 :)
20:01.39bigdog_utthen what you complaining for
20:01.50syniclol, it's still slow even on this machine
20:02.27bigdog_utreally...that is weird, arch linux will do that i guess...no it is a beast
20:02.42bigdog_uti am trying to compile it native and see the diffs
20:04.29bigdog_utwhat does jedit give besides editing
20:04.45synicdepends on the plugins you use
20:07.21bigdog_utsynic i was thinking of gtk'in your app
20:07.37synicjbother?
20:07.44bigdog_uty
20:07.56bigdog_utjava-gnome'in it
20:07.57synicthat'd be sweet
20:08.12synichave you ever done anything with swt?
20:08.17bigdog_utyeah
20:08.30synicwhat are the drawbacks? how come everyone doesn't use it?
20:08.35bigdog_uti dont like it too much
20:08.44bigdog_utcause it is a beast to use
20:08.47synictbye: this is some good stuff.
20:08.47bigdog_utthat and jface
20:09.08tbyesynic: thought you'd dig it.
20:13.49macnewboldtbye: thanks for the paste... you should have warned me about it being java.
20:13.58macnewbolddid you put the <?php at the top, or did pastebin?
20:15.26wpspastebin does that
20:15.38synichttp://www.rafb.net/paste is better for other languages
20:16.13*** join/#uphpu tierra|w (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
20:22.01tbyemacnewbold: I said it may burn your eyes...
20:22.09macnewbolddefinitely
20:22.15tbyehehe
20:22.16macnewboldbut I didn't get it until after I read it
20:22.23macnewboldand by then it was too late...
20:22.24*** join/#uphpu jsmith (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com)
20:22.47macnewboldso if at our next meeting (in < 2weeks),  you see me with patches over my eyes and a red and white cane...
20:22.47synicmacnewbold: some day you're going to admit that java is cool.
20:22.55synicdataw0lf: you too.
20:23.03wpsjsmith, my fans seem to be one no matter what if the unit is plugged in... even if it is off
20:23.07wpsis that normal behavior?
20:23.16macnewboldjava has its advantages...
20:23.21jsmithwps: That's strange.
20:23.41macnewboldI just don't know what they are yet
20:23.59jsmithwps: Of course, all mine are in noisy data centers, so I wouldn't know if that's really normal.
20:24.00tbyewrite once...
20:24.04tbyedebug everywhere...
20:24.09jsmithtbye: Write once -- curse everywhere?
20:24.21tbyewrite once... blood everywhere.
20:24.53jsmithAh -- java isn't that bad -- it's just not my first choice.
20:25.11jsmith(Hence the reason I hang out in #uphpu, instead of #java-junkies)
20:25.31tbyebesides it led to things like... C#... errr...
20:26.00jsmithC# isn't that bad eitherj
20:26.06jsmiths/eitherj/either/
20:34.26jsmithC'mon -- they're just tools, right?  You wouldn't build a house with just a hand-saw, right?  Different jobs and different circumstances require different tools.
20:36.31tierra|wyeah, but to this day, I have not found one good job that C# is a good tool for versus some other tool
20:36.51tierra|wit's a useless tool
20:37.11jsmithI found it great for a Windows program I needed to write quickly that interacted with Microsoft Excel COM+ objects.
20:37.28bigdog_utyeah
20:37.28jsmithDoes that mean it's a great fit for anything else?  Maybe not...
20:37.31tierra|wexactly... useless
20:37.34jsmithtierra|w: Don't be so closed-minded.
20:38.01jsmithMight be useless to you, but that doesn't make it useless.
20:38.07tierra|wjsmith, I'm not... trust me... I'm a huge Gentoo fanatic... you want to know what's running on my laptop right now? Ubuntu!
20:38.10bigdog_uttrue to a point
20:38.40jsmithtierra|w: So?  That doesn't mean anything to me.  Running both Gentoo and Ubuntu doesn't mean you're open-minded. :-)
20:38.43*** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu)
20:38.52tierra|wI'll try anything and everything... I take and consider everything...
20:39.42tierra|wI will experiment with everything, I'm not close-minded... I've considered C#, and found that it's useless
20:40.03optikalbleh.. and just because he says C# is useless doesnt mean hes closeminded either
20:40.37bigdog_utoh crap...here comes optikal
20:40.44tierra|w^5
20:41.11optikalit may have its uses.. but then again, so does a Zamboni on ice.. but does it on the streets? nope
20:41.11bigdog_ut^5
20:41.14bigdog_utat you
20:41.32bigdog_utbut that is what jsmith is saying though too
20:41.35tierra|wI almost thought you were going to leave me hanging
20:41.35optikaland i dont wanna be on the ice.. evar. P
20:41.37bigdog_utthat is has one purpose
20:41.41bigdog_utlol
20:41.51bigdog_utsorry helping wps
20:41.53tierra|wanyway, I'm off to grab some food... bbl
20:41.57optikaltierra|w: sucka
20:45.36dataw0lfoptikal: check out dataw0lf.org now.  it's really broken though.
20:45.38bigdog_utpretzels sound good
20:46.01synicdataw0lf: you just can't leave it alone, can you?
20:46.04optikalbigdog_ut: they r, except when u eat em all the time cuz u dont have a car to go to lunch w/
20:46.13dataw0lfsynic: nope.
20:46.24bigdog_utyeah, i am a sunflower seed freak
20:46.40synicbigdog_ut: so am I.
20:46.46*** join/#uphpu jakea (~jakea@byu147137wks.byu.edu)
20:46.48synicI eat like three bags of the frito lay ones a week
20:47.14optikalbigdog_ut: wtf?
20:47.20optikalbigdog_ut: incoming pic just 4 u
20:47.45*** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@63.226.104.67)
20:47.47optikal(uploading)
20:47.51bigdog_utuploading where?
20:48.04optikalfrom my phone
20:48.06optikaltook a pic of something
20:48.16optikalre: 'bigdog_ut yeah, i am a sunflower seed freak'
20:48.16bigdog_utwhere you postin?
20:48.44optikal1sec and ill link u when its up
20:48.49bigdog_utk
20:49.53optikalaccidentalyl sent it to the wrong site heh
20:50.04optikalmate? lol
20:50.34bigdog_utyeah bro
20:50.44bigdog_utargentine drink
20:50.47bigdog_utgotta have it
20:50.58optikalyerba mate?
20:51.09bigdog_uthell ya
20:51.24bigdog_utdataw0lf, where is the gallery?
20:52.57optikalbigdog_ut: 3 days worth.. http://optikal.textamerica.com/?r=2014123
20:53.02optikalinside.. is empty sunflower seeds
20:53.47bigdog_utnice
20:54.20optikalhehe
20:54.26optikalyah.. im a big time sunflower seed freak
20:54.45bigdog_uti eat like a bag a day
20:54.48optikalyah
20:55.11bigdog_uti love the jalapeno ones
20:55.13optikalI bought this bag of 'Spitz' seeds for $1.50 @ 7-11, and its a big bag.. and its half full
20:55.20optikali havent tried any of the flavor ones yet.. im going to next time
20:55.25optikali just love original
20:55.26optikalheh
20:55.34bigdog_uti dont like spitz...im a davids man
20:55.56optikalme too
20:56.02optikalbut.. they were out of davids
20:56.06bigdog_uti tried spitz a couple times...my wife bought me four bags and i went through them to fast i think
20:56.17bigdog_utyeah seconfs
21:07.47*** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu)
21:09.31macnewboldbigdog_ut: why didn't you tell me you were a mate guy? Tenemos que matear en la proxima reunion UPHPU!
21:10.06bigdog_utsi macnewbold nos tenemos tocar
21:10.14bigdog_utlol
21:10.15bigdog_uttomar
21:10.17macnewboldhehe
21:10.23bigdog_uttocar tambien
21:10.35macnewboldestuviste en argentina por mucho tiempo?
21:10.45bigdog_utdos anos...el mision
21:11.01macnewboldclaro... que bueno. servi en Rosario.
21:11.04macnewboldy vos?
21:11.05bigdog_utel sur de argentino
21:11.10macnewboldneuquen?
21:11.13bigdog_utsi
21:11.21bigdog_utel gran mision neuquen
21:11.35bigdog_ut94-96
21:11.40macnewboldconocio un Presidente Coronel? Un Santafesino?
21:11.57bigdog_utsi fue mi primero presidente
21:12.02macnewboldque bueno
21:12.17macnewboldyo le conoci en Santa Fe... era consejero a mi presidente
21:12.49macnewboldsus hijos son muy divertidos... uno sirvio en Georgia, USA
21:12.52bigdog_utsi me aquerdo...se fue despues su mision
21:13.08bigdog_utsi...durante los olympics
21:14.04macnewboldque cosa buena, che
21:14.12macnewboldno puedo dejar de sonreirme...
21:14.21optikalyou crazies
21:14.25macnewboldanyway, basta with the spanish memories...
21:14.26bigdog_utlol
21:14.31optikaltu habla en ingles, por favor!
21:14.33bigdog_utel castillano
21:14.40macnewboldche, loco, que te pasa?!
21:14.41bigdog_uttu hablas
21:14.52optikalmi pantalones el blanco en la casa
21:15.11bigdog_utveni che y toma el mate
21:15.19optikalhaha
21:15.21macnewboldhehe
21:15.23bigdog_utdropping the vos
21:15.27macnewboldoh yeah
21:15.33bigdog_utchiliano sytle
21:15.44mindjujuso what's this about having to "touch" each other and drink at the next uPHPu meeting?
21:15.51mindjujui must have caught that conversation late
21:16.03macnewboldtouch was a typo... it was drink, referring to mate
21:16.15mindjujujust giving ya'll a hard time
21:16.17mindjuju;)
21:16.19bigdog_utyeah...fat fingered it
21:16.38macnewboldum, yeah... since c and m are only 5 chars away on a keyboard...
21:17.14bigdog_utbeber then
21:18.35bigdog_utme gusta tocar and tomar
21:18.36bigdog_utlol
21:19.03mindjujuque te gusta tomar?
21:19.11macnewboldmate, che
21:19.15macnewboldmate dulce
21:19.21bigdog_utmate, dulce de leche
21:19.27bigdog_utfactura
21:19.27macnewbold(mata amarga me da azco)
21:19.35bigdog_utalfejordes
21:19.42macnewbold(terere tambien [mate fria de paraguay)
21:19.47mindjujuahhhh... never had mate, but it's that drink that people drink with the silver straw isn't it, it's hot drink like coffee?
21:19.54macnewboldoh, yeah... alfajores son los mejores
21:19.57mindjujubut with grains or something
21:20.02bigdog_utsi
21:20.08macnewboldyeah, it's a metal straw with a strainer on the end
21:20.13macnewboldit's an herbal tea
21:20.25bigdog_utherbal...yeah
21:20.27macnewboldmade from a plant called yerba, looks like grass
21:20.27mindjujuway cool
21:20.50bigdog_uti got a big bag of it at home...you should see people when they see it on the counter
21:20.51wps~bigdog_ut++
21:20.51macnewboldpeople kept calling it "yuyo" on "accident", which means weeds, and sounds similar
21:20.54macnewboldhehe
21:20.57macnewbold~mate++
21:21.16wpsbigdog_ut rocks
21:21.17macnewboldI've got dulce de leche in my fridge, too
21:21.21bigdog_utnice
21:21.22macnewboldthat stuff never goes bad
21:21.28macnewboldand it's easy to make too, if you do it the easy way
21:21.34bigdog_utnever....it like grease
21:21.39macnewboldyeah
21:22.00bigdog_utmy kidz hate the stuff
21:22.01macnewboldfor the uninitiated, dulce de leche is a milk caramel that's really good... used like jam or jelly in a lot of things
21:22.03macnewboldhehe
21:22.07macnewboldeverybody I know likes it
21:22.18macnewboldwe'll have to have mate and tortas fritas with dulce de leche at the meeting
21:22.19macnewboldmmm
21:22.22bigdog_uti do...i love it on bread and some mate con leche
21:22.31bigdog_utdude that would rock
21:22.41macnewboldwhat do you say, wade?
21:22.46bigdog_utcause that stuff is good
21:22.48macnewboldyeah
21:22.57macnewboldtortas fritas are some of my favorites
21:23.04wpssounds good
21:23.05bigdog_utempanadas
21:23.12macnewbold~bigdog_ut is also an argentino bad boy
21:23.13jbotmacnewbold: okay
21:23.14macnewboldoh yeah
21:23.18bigdog_uthell ya
21:23.24bigdog_utfrom the south
21:23.35macnewboldI like empanadas dulces a lot... my wife thought they'd be weird with meat and raisins
21:23.38macnewboldbut she loves them too
21:23.54bigdog_uti did not care for the them too much
21:23.59bigdog_uti like con carne
21:24.04macnewboldI like the "normal" ones too
21:24.08macnewboldit's all good
21:24.12bigdog_utyeah
21:24.19bigdog_uti ate so much meat down there
21:24.26macnewboldhehe, I bet
21:24.30bigdog_utprotein and mate...i was a skinny guy
21:24.37bigdog_utand noodles
21:24.45macnewbold"If it wasn't slaughtered today or yesterday, it isn't fresh"
21:24.45bigdog_uttons of italian food too
21:24.52bigdog_utor that morning
21:25.03macnewboldyeah, we walked 25 miles a day on average, so I was about 50 pounds lighter then
21:25.03bigdog_utsteak and eggs for breakfast
21:25.06macnewboldmmm
21:25.13bigdog_utsteak and noodles for lunch
21:25.23bigdog_utand dulce de leche and pan for dinner
21:25.28bigdog_utmate all the time
21:25.31macnewboldtoast with dulce de leche, and hot chocolate or te de menta
21:25.39bigdog_uty
21:25.43macnewboldwe couldn't drink mate as missionaries in my mission
21:25.55bigdog_utreally we could only drink the tea bags
21:25.57macnewboldbut I drank mint tea or chamomile tea like mate anyway
21:25.59macnewboldyeah
21:26.25macnewboldhalf of the fun is the process... I got pretty good at it...
21:26.29bigdog_utlol
21:26.33bigdog_uti am okay
21:26.51macnewboldwhile everyone else was drinking it, we'd keep refilling it so they would just concentrate on what we were saying :)
21:27.04bigdog_utnice
21:27.51bigdog_uti am trying to save to head down to bariloche again
21:28.15macnewboldyeah, I need to go
21:28.23macnewboldthe longer I wait though, the more kids I have...
21:28.23bigdog_utit has been 10 years
21:28.35macnewboldI've been back over 5
21:28.36bigdog_uti am done with the kidz im saving to go
21:29.13bigdog_utgreat times
21:37.39mindjujuk, i have a database question
21:37.50mindjujulet's say your building a site where your going to have accounts.  And that part of having an account means that you can invite others to see your account.  At any point you can resind that invitation.
21:38.01mindjujuThat said, should the database structure:
21:38.11mindjujuUser table where the average user info is (name, address, phone, etc)
21:38.22mindjujuThe question, should I append the permissions field to the user table and store all the permissions for the account that are authorized or should I make a new table that has the userid and then the new user id of the account that has been given permission, each permission being it's own record or should i create a new table with the userid and all the permissions being one record
21:38.45wpsI would do a separate table
21:39.10mindjujuthat's what i was thinking, keep user table for just user info
21:39.38wpsusually always to have another table — 1 to many
21:40.03mindjujuk, so let's say you give mac permission and you gave optikal permission, would you just have a record for mac and a record for optikal
21:40.16mindjujuor one record with your userid and their userid stored in an array?
21:40.51bigdog_utwhat db form are you wanting to use?
21:41.09mindjuju3
21:41.18bigdog_utthen dont do arrays
21:41.28bigdog_utand use join tables
21:41.51mindjujuyeah, that's what i was thinking, one record for each permission, but then started to wonder about efficency
21:41.57bigdog_utwhat db are u using?
21:42.02mindjujumysql 4
21:42.29bigdog_uti would promote a stored function then
21:42.44bigdog_utpass in username or id
21:43.00mindjujuhmm... not familiar with stored functions, is that similar to stored procedures in MS SQL?
21:43.02bigdog_utview_account(view_userid, access_userid)
21:43.09bigdog_uty
21:43.25bigdog_utthen you can do all the queries in there for the information and return the result set you want
21:43.38mindjujudidn't know mysql had them... for some reason thought those weren't going to be available until Mysql 5
21:43.39bigdog_utvery clean
21:43.53mindjujuyeah, that would be nice
21:43.55bigdog_utoh perhaps they are...i was thinking 4
21:44.07bigdog_utperhaps i am thinking transactions
21:44.16bigdog_utthen i recommend pgslq
21:44.16mindjujui could be wrong, haven't downloaded mysql in about a year sooo...
21:44.35mindjujui'll check it out, thnx for the help!
21:44.46bigdog_utnp
21:45.52bigdog_utdoes mysql support children tables
21:46.46bigdog_utman mysql sucks for that mindjuju
21:46.52bigdog_uti would suggest views to
21:47.20mindjujuyeah, and i think new mysql is coming out this quater
21:47.23bigdog_uthave a view over the table with the subset data and then query the view if the person has perms to acces it
21:47.33mindjujuit's suppose to have views and stored procedures (i think)
21:48.46bigdog_uti would have a table that is a join that had both ids
21:48.57bigdog_utviewer_id, viewee_id
21:49.07bigdog_utthen join against the other tables
21:49.56bigdog_utthey really come in handy
21:52.27mindjujuso to keep to 3rd form, the table should have a column for permission id (incremental)| granterid | granteeid | active (as in is it current or has it been recinded)
21:52.30mindjujudon't you think?
21:52.57bigdog_uty
21:53.09mindjujucool!
21:53.09bigdog_utbut you dont really need the permission id
21:53.16bigdog_utit is a join table
21:53.40bigdog_utand you dont really need the active either
21:53.51bigdog_utactive if in table...not active if missing
21:54.01bigdog_utbut it is okay to have
21:54.32mindjujuoh, i see what your saying, if record is present then permission, if permission revoked, delete record
21:54.40bigdog_uty
21:55.01mindjujuwith my way, you could have thousands of records with only hundreds having active permissions, but with your way, i'd just have the hundreds
21:55.08bigdog_utand your key is the 2 of them
21:55.09mindjujuless sql load faster search time
21:55.14mindjujunice, i like
21:55.16bigdog_utyes
21:55.36bigdog_utand use numbers (ids) instead of usernames
21:56.00bigdog_utindex the field together
21:56.05bigdog_utfields
21:56.34mindjujujust actuallly started learning about indexes, but can see how that would make this really efficent
21:57.10bigdog_utor atleast which column you will query the most
21:57.31bigdog_utprobably on granterid
21:58.02bigdog_utselect granteeid from permissions where granterid = <id>;
21:58.36bigdog_utwhatever is in the where clause really
22:00.07bigdog_utbut the best thing to use is the query explainer (is that right?)
22:00.25mindjujuexplainer?
22:00.30bigdog_utmacnewbold, when you teaching db optimization
22:00.36bigdog_utor query optimization
22:00.37macnewboldhuh?
22:00.50macnewboldanytime, for you, amigo
22:01.17bigdog_utmacnewbold, we should do mysql vs. pgsql
22:01.30wpsthat would be a good meeting
22:01.36wpscomparing and contrasting the two
22:01.42bigdog_uty
22:01.48bigdog_uti call pgslq
22:01.50bigdog_utpgsql
22:01.58bigdog_utoh macnewbold gets mysql
22:02.01macnewbold1. seperate table for permissions to view other users, cause it's a many-to-many relationship. Needs at least two colums (who sees, and who is seen)
22:02.01bigdog_ut:(
22:02.14bigdog_uty
22:02.20macnewboldone record for each permission.
22:02.36macnewboldyou could do a stored function, but it's prolly just as good with a join.
22:02.43bigdog_utmindjuju, check out mysql docs on explain
22:03.06macnewboldyou just need to make sure to include the id you care about in the "on" clause of the join, so you don't get _everything_ back
22:03.19wps~prolly
22:03.20jbotwell, prolly is probably
22:03.31wpsjbot, knows all
22:03.32jbotand don't you forget it
22:03.38wpsLOL
22:03.56wpswhat a crazy guy
22:03.59macnewboldyou could do without a permission id if you wanted, and just make (granterid,granteeid) your primary key
22:04.20mindjujuthat was bigdog_ut's idea
22:04.32mindjujui was thinking of doing that
22:04.52macnewboldyou'll probably want indexes on granterid and granteeid, and yes, using ints instead of varchars is a great idea
22:05.27bigdog_utnow check to see how you will be quering the table..sometimes mysql will not use indexes so you might need to force it
22:05.35bigdog_utthat is where explain <query> comes in
22:05.46macnewboldas long as the right index is there, it usually uses it, in my experience.
22:06.11mindjujuhave ya'll ever heard of Database Design for Mere Mortals, heard good things about it, thinking of reading it
22:06.13macnewboldif (grantee,grantor) is your primary key, it can use that for the combination, or for just grantee, but not for just grantor (i.e. a prefix of an index works too)
22:06.19bigdog_utyes unless you do something like "OR" in the where on 2 indexed columns then it might pick only one
22:06.26macnewboldso you'll want a separate index for the 2nd col in your key.
22:17.49*** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.186.134.102)
22:23.49*** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu)
22:24.56tbye<PROTECTED>
22:25.10tbyeon the idn issue
22:25.26bigdog_utyeh it is a curl issue though
22:25.53tbyeI just mean since I'd commented that I had a similar issue installing asterisk recently.
22:26.38bigdog_utlol
22:29.58dataw0lfo
22:29.59dataw0lfm
22:29.59dataw0lfg
22:30.00dataw0lfhttp://www.savetoby.com/
22:32.50mindjujunot likely, have you ever seen those waiters that put a $1 in the tip cup to help motivate others to give?  
22:32.59mindjujui should send a rabbit receipe
22:33.13dataw0lflook at the bottom.
22:33.15dataw0lfhe's gotten 11k
22:33.23dataw0lfI'm going to do that, but with tierra|w.
22:33.32mindjujuyeah, see, not sure that is real
22:33.57dataw0lfpeople buy grilled cheese sandwiches that look the virgin mary, I don't see whats so hard to believe about it.
22:34.32mindjujuwell true, could be
22:34.49tbyePlus... just look at James Brown...  Anything is possible!!
22:35.03tbye...what?
22:35.07tierra|wI'm up for it
22:35.12tierra|wlet's do it dataw0lf
22:35.27dataw0lfsavetierra.org
22:35.43tbyesounds like a mexican hippy site.
22:35.46dataw0lfwe could put you in a cage with me poking you with a stick
22:35.59tbyea jar... like bonsai kitty
22:36.34tierra|whaha
22:36.54dataw0lf'this is tierra when I first found him' <insert high school yearbook picture>
22:37.04tbyedon't forget the catheter.
22:38.01tierra|wouch
22:38.13tbyeAnyone an XBox hacker?
22:39.16bigdog_utxbox sucks
22:39.21tierra|wsome would consider me one since I did in fact have xbox-linux running on my xbox, I do have it modded out... but somehow I managed all of it without learning jack about doing it, and I still have no clue how I got it all working
22:39.41tbyenice
22:39.55mindjujui want to mod my box, but need to save some money first
22:40.00tbyeI've got a 250 GB drive in mine... I think it's going bad.
22:40.30tbyeI wish Xbox Media Center had better docs.
22:40.32tierra|wwhat's even more funny about it, is that I had a solderless push-pin chip, and I stripped the screw inset in the motherboard, and ended up soldering it anyway
22:40.46tbyelol
22:42.33tierra|wso I decided since I was going to end up soldering it anyway, I made a small cable, cut a hole in the side of the xbox, and the chip is hanging on the outside of the box dangling by wires so I can still flash it if I need to
22:42.53tierra|wdefinately a custom job
22:43.15tierra|wmakes it not so portable though, have to be careful with the chip
22:56.30bigdog_utman the find command rocks
22:57.08tierra|wyes it does
22:57.36tierra|wI need to learn to take full advantage of it more often... I've only used it a couple times
22:57.56tierra|wwell, that is, when I have stuff it will come in handy for
23:03.48macnewboldany smarty users still in here?
23:04.41bigdog_utlol
23:07.00mindjujumacnewbold, is there a big performance penalty for saying select * from whatever as opposed to just asking for the column?
23:07.20macnewbolddepends on the table, probably... try it and see I guess?
23:07.25macnewboldin most cases, it won't matter a bit
23:07.34bigdog_utyes it does
23:07.34macnewboldbigdog_ut: not by choice... I'm hacking on phpbb for a client
23:07.41macnewboldreally?
23:07.44bigdog_utman i hacked phpbb to death
23:07.47bigdog_utyes it does
23:07.59bigdog_utmysql says you should ask for the columns
23:08.10macnewboldtable with 100 rows and 8 columns, and you say * instead, and it matters?
23:08.31bigdog_utyeah i guess
23:08.44bigdog_utwell if i only need 4 then i will ask for 4
23:08.50macnewboldIMO, depends on how many rows you're getting, how many columns you're eliminating by being specific, etc.
23:08.50bigdog_utwhen bring back more than i need
23:09.11macnewboldI guess I usually need all or almost all of them anyway... so I'm not in that habit yet
23:09.22macnewboldbigdog_ut: you know how to embed php code in a .tpl?
23:09.30macnewbold<? and <?php just print it into the html source
23:09.34macnewboldw/o executing
23:09.40macnewbold{php} does something
23:09.48macnewboldbut doesn't run the code still, and just outputs it
23:10.03macnewboldI'm wondering if phpbb has something to do with it?
23:11.28bigdog_utyeah {php} {/php} should work
23:11.49bigdog_utor else include it like so {include_php file="path/file.php"}
23:14.10bigdog_utmacnewbold, did that work?
23:14.34macnewboldI'll try it
23:17.37macnewboldno worky. if I use {include_php or {include_php_file it just echos the thing in the output.
23:17.53bigdog_utsorry bro
23:17.58macnewboldI'll have to put the php somewhere in the phpbb code and pull it into a template var
23:18.01macnewboldoh well
23:18.43bigdog_utyeah...i did not like phpbb but we did do some cool stuff with it
23:25.38optikalI love SMF
23:30.48*** join/#uphpu jbot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:30.48*** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users - uphpu.org - Thanks to everyone who has donated!
23:35.00optikalhttp://neil.moon-beam.com/users/kris/index.htm
23:37.00mindjujudoesn't come up for me
23:37.30*** join/#uphpu osynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.client.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:39.04optikalthen ur terminal sux
23:39.23optikal=P
23:39.24optikalworks fine here
23:39.51mindjujuk, cleared cache and it came up, my bad
23:40.13mindjujui've been sick all day if that gets me any sympathy
23:51.31optikalnope
23:52.02mindjujudag!

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