| 00:13.30 | curious | linc-protocols.c:(.text+0xfaa): undefined reference to `in6addr_any' offtopic from uclibc |
| 00:13.41 | dougmencken | who to blame today? |
| 00:13.47 | curious | gnome-base/orbit fails to live without ipv6 ;p |
| 00:14.09 | dougmencken | curious: almost a week ago I told you about some config params.... |
| 00:14.36 | curious | well, it should be able to live without, like glib |
| 00:14.46 | curious | thus it's offtopic from uclibc ;) |
| 00:14.54 | curious | though still some problem on the way for users |
| 00:14.58 | dougmencken | curious: what the hell are you building now? |
| 00:15.20 | curious | simple gtk app, tangogps |
| 00:16.26 | curious | well, don't worry i'll not even work around this ;0 |
| 00:16.27 | curious | ;) |
| 00:16.40 | dougmencken | [13:43:22] <dougmencken> and possibly UCLIBC_HAS_NETWORK_SUPPORT=y, UCLIBC_HAS_SOCKET=y, UCLIBC_HAS_IPV4=y, UCLIBC_HAS_IPV6=y, UCLIBC_HAS_RPC=y, UCLIBC_HAS_FULL_RPC=y |
| 00:16.51 | curious | no, i don't want ipv6 at all |
| 00:17.15 | curious | it's just gnome's ppl hell , don't worry ;) |
| 00:17.23 | dougmencken | curious: with your connection ;) but the support, you need it |
| 00:17.34 | curious | i do not |
| 00:18.04 | curious | it's used by orbit, which is used by gconf, and all gconf is used is to config few options compile time for tangogps ;p |
| 00:18.08 | dougmencken | tango? gps? heh |
| 00:18.15 | curious | runtime it'll not even need it |
| 00:18.57 | curious | glib has similiar bug, and there is patch avail to allow building it without ipv6 |
| 00:19.17 | curious | even cared to bugreport about it to gentoo as it's quite hard to find hack |
| 00:19.22 | dougmencken | oh okay |
| 00:28.08 | curious | http://www.mail-archive.com/openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org/msg13526.html |
| 00:28.17 | curious | hehe, patch exists! |
| 00:28.39 | curious | some cool ppl write them, other cool ppl forget to merge them ;) |
| 00:28.46 | dougmencken | curious: "the community" thing works only if there're a lot of guys with similar problem(s) |
| 00:29.13 | curious | yeah, thus i care to point out the issues |
| 00:30.12 | dougmencken | curious: sh@#, nobody even tries to say thatmy thesis is wrong :) |
| 00:30.36 | dougmencken | even #fsf guys |
| 00:30.54 | jpd | you're wrong. I wouldn't know why, but you're wrong. |
| 00:30.56 | jpd | better? |
| 00:31.06 | curious | ye, ochlocracy is bad side effect of such community model |
| 00:31.10 | dougmencken | jpd: who is ballmer |
| 00:31.21 | jpd | some guy with a chair throwing disorder |
| 00:31.38 | dougmencken | jpd: heh |
| 00:33.03 | dougmencken | but... on #rhel I got ~10 answers per a minute :) |
| 00:33.06 | curious | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer#Free_and_open_source_software lol |
| 00:33.20 | dougmencken | HyperV thing? |
| 00:34.22 | curious | did he actually coded anything ? |
| 00:34.33 | jpd | he's a marketeer |
| 00:34.59 | curious | well, at least he can afford psychiatrist |
| 00:35.08 | jpd | then again billg wasn't a visionary coder either. the things they say now are oh-so-great were normal back then. |
| 00:35.33 | curious | ye, i quite know how u can sell crap to peasants |
| 00:35.49 | jpd | and of course dos 1.0 was just bought from another guy who took the cp/m syscall list and implemented them... badly. |
| 00:36.04 | jpd | that bunch just has Way Too Much Money now and people with that much almost inevitably lose touch with reality |
| 00:36.27 | curious | like meth , magnetic stimulation bracelets and other stuff, all this goess multi-million-dollar once u find ppl naive enough to buy it |
| 00:36.32 | jpd | or it just starts to look way different. warping and stuff. |
| 00:36.39 | dougmencken | ogg123 siege_of_laurelmor.ogg |
| 00:36.44 | dougmencken | oops |
| 00:37.06 | curious | i've liked cp/m btw. |
| 00:37.10 | dougmencken | that focus thing is great |
| 00:37.24 | dougmencken | and gpm :) |
| 00:38.37 | dougmencken | my distro's wiki now updated with that thesis: http://manulix.wikidot.com/ |
| 00:39.26 | jpd | how hard is it to disable colordir on busybox btw? |
| 00:39.58 | dougmencken | jpd: just one option |
| 00:40.33 | dougmencken | (at the build time :) |
| 00:41.49 | jpd | "Are you agree?" isn't exactly grammatical |
| 00:42.22 | dougmencken | jpd: fixes are welcome; my native lang is not english |
| 00:42.37 | dougmencken | do you agree? |
| 00:43.29 | jpd | neither is it mine. tip: start with foregoing undue abbreviations. no u, write you. no lang, write language. if you need to look it up, look it up. |
| 00:44.25 | jpd | "do you agree?" is correct, but "would you agree?" perhaps better style |
| 00:45.09 | dougmencken | would is too slaverish |
| 00:45.19 | jpd | slaverish? |
| 00:45.23 | dougmencken | it's like "perhaps" |
| 00:46.01 | jpd | you need to learn about the english and understatement. :-) |
| 00:46.32 | dougmencken | 2-- Do you agree?-- Good English << http://www.englishforums.com/English/AreAgreeAgreeAgree/xwndm/post.htm << okay, fixing |
| 00:47.32 | dougmencken | fixed |
| 00:48.35 | jpd | wouldn't contract in there're, are is best left alone for emphasis. and I wouldn't put () around that last s. |
| 00:49.42 | dougmencken | jpd: what? also, to discuss manulix, there's #manulix ;) |
| 00:50.31 | jpd | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraction_%28grammar%29 |
| 00:50.46 | dougmencken | not wikipedia, you know why |
| 00:51.18 | dougmencken | or "j" stands for "jimmy"? ;) |
| 00:51.20 | *** join/#uclibc bkuhn (~bkuhn@fsf/director/conservancy.president.bkuhn) |
| 00:52.14 | ente | http://xcb.freedesktop.org/KittyLogo/neko.svg <-- XCB logo |
| 00:52.33 | dougmencken | ente: wgetting |
| 00:52.46 | ente | http://xcb.freedesktop.org/KittyLogo/graphics.png <-- what? |
| 00:53.19 | dougmencken | freaking gpm! hang a minute |
| 00:54.25 | dougmencken | phew 2011-03-12 01:54:14 (42.4 KB/s) - âneko.svgâ saved [30841/30841] |
| 00:54.49 | dougmencken | ente: cool kitty |
| 00:54.57 | jpd | blagh xcb |
| 00:55.15 | dougmencken | ente: what is xcb anyway? |
| 00:55.35 | jpd | an excuse to cause all of X to suddenly sprout python and dbus dependencies |
| 00:55.44 | dougmencken | very abnormal pawns, but okay |
| 00:56.08 | jpd | next to perl, imake, m4, and a lot of other annoying little things that really shouldn't be sucked in like that. |
| 00:56.41 | dougmencken | imake? |
| 00:56.43 | xMff | heh "little" things |
| 00:57.47 | ente | it depends on dbus? |
| 00:58.00 | ente | well, given that it's from freedesktop that's not really surprising |
| 00:58.06 | ente | what's with all the iksemel these days? |
| 00:58.23 | ente | you'd think there's no other way to store data |
| 00:58.23 | jpd | if not now, it will in the near future. or maybe that was just one of the more "modern" Xorg video drivers, I forgot. |
| 00:58.40 | ente | /etc/blkid.tab is an XML file |
| 00:58.47 | ente | systemd (fedoras init) uses dbus |
| 00:58.50 | ente | wtf. |
| 00:58.58 | xMff | wasn't dbus obsolete already again? |
| 00:59.04 | ente | no, that was HAL |
| 00:59.04 | xMff | ah no that was hal |
| 00:59.04 | jpd | iksemel is like violence: if it doesn't work, you're not using enough of it. (yes, stolen quote, don't credit me kthx) |
| 00:59.24 | ente | true |
| 00:59.46 | jpd | s/work/help/ but wth |
| 01:00.03 | ente | that doesn't matter |
| 01:00.17 | ente | if it doesn't work, you need to add more XSLT and abstraction layers |
| 01:00.24 | jpd | it's horror evening, isn't it? |
| 01:01.04 | jpd | well, lemme say this then: "pulse audio" and "more latency is a GOOD thing" |
| 01:01.34 | jpd | and maybe that everlasting gem (paraphrased) "if pulse audio chokes on it, it's the sound driver's fault!" |
| 01:02.07 | ente | wonders if jpd has seen the "desktop on the linux" talk from 27c3 |
| 01:02.26 | jpd | xml is just wonderful in so many ways. it's actually a convergence of developer and manager buzzwords |
| 01:02.33 | ente | yes |
| 01:02.52 | ente | actually, it's conceptually abused s-expressions |
| 01:03.01 | jpd | I wasn't at 27c3 because of reasons best not discussed in polite company |
| 01:03.03 | ente | and computer illiterate people have caught on to them |
| 01:03.14 | jpd | that is, the w3c |
| 01:03.36 | ente | like computer illiterate people are talking about "cloud computing" right now |
| 01:08.45 | ente | jpd: well, anyway.. lennart poettering was there (the pulseaudio-systemd-guy) |
| 01:09.27 | ente | and it was a nice rant about all that stuff from the perspective of a sysadmin (because this mess is unbearable from the sysadmin perspective, missing documentation and so on) |
| 01:09.28 | jpd | haven't done any multimedia coding this year, otherwise I'd feel tempted to punch him in the face |
| 01:09.43 | ente | and then poettering started to contrarant |
| 01:09.50 | jpd | linux docs are generally very poor, and the deeper you get the worse it gets |
| 01:10.07 | jpd | reason why I use freebsd, though that by now could use a serious doc beefing-up too |
| 01:10.14 | ente | couldn't agree more |
| 01:10.23 | ente | BSD engineering works so much better than linux engineering |
| 01:10.34 | jpd | poettering seems to be pretty good at pissing people off |
| 01:10.51 | ente | yes |
| 01:11.01 | jpd | he certainly shouldn't go and show his face on a vlc or ffmpeg gathering |
| 01:11.10 | jpd | s/vlc/videolan/ but who cares |
| 01:11.14 | ente | guess why |
| 01:11.19 | ente | http://git.0pointer.de/repos/ <- hall of shame |
| 01:11.53 | ente | I just wish we had XFree86 back |
| 01:11.53 | *** join/#uclibc tsukasa` (~tsukasa@unaffiliated/tsukasa) |
| 01:12.02 | ente | (freedesktop are breaking X as well) |
| 01:12.02 | jpd | that all his? ye ghods. |
| 01:12.19 | jpd | can we please scourge the planet clean of all that crap |
| 01:14.10 | jpd | sighs |
| 01:15.15 | jpd | yeah well I'm still not clear on how that takeover went or how they managed to sideline themselves, but it was clear something was very wrong over there |
| 01:15.15 | jpd | of course, Xorg is its very own brand of badly, deeply, disturbingly wrong. |
| 01:15.15 | jpd | Just the frebsd package explosion for X11R7 comes to mind |
| 01:17.08 | curious | jpd, btw. old XFree still compiles |
| 01:17.10 | jpd | though as to documentation, the X people too have a long history of believing that just running the code through doxygen resulting in five different formats documents with just the headers enumerated counts as "documentation" |
| 01:17.15 | curious | just few small hacks required |
| 01:17.38 | curious | which is actually damn awesome, given how old it is , and how different gcc , binutils, etc. became |
| 01:18.06 | curious | i've compiled vnc 3.3.6 based on XFree on uclibc some time ago aswell :) |
| 01:18.58 | curious | compared to Xorg, which 'bitrots' after just few months due to 'changes in kernel, gcc, etc etc) it's quite cool |
| 01:19.12 | jpd | sometimes I'm tempted to start an X12 or something, learning from everywhere how do to a leaner, meaner X and a compatability glue for X11 |
| 01:19.34 | curious | and i wonder why ppl use pulseaudio when there is jackd |
| 01:20.02 | jpd | Xorg is a wee bit too toolchain feature abuse happy, yes |
| 01:20.21 | jpd | of course since they no longer use imake they'll probably see that as an upgrade anyway |
| 01:20.25 | CIA-54 | 03vda.linux 07master * r8345b2bd5ea2 10busybox/libbb/progress.c: libbb: make warning go away |
| 01:21.38 | ente | I wonder why only people who are interested in embedded programming understand that resources are not infinite |
| 01:21.48 | jpd | s/frebsd/freebsd/ blah typing ahead blind arglbargl |
| 01:21.53 | curious | COZ RAM PRICES ARE FALLING |
| 01:22.37 | curious | and u get 2x as ram each year just because windows requires it and market obeys it's laws. |
| 01:22.55 | jpd | developers have this gamer fetish to always run the fastest machines if maybe not quite overclock them to 11 |
| 01:23.03 | curious | it's scary how linux kernel grew in size over years |
| 01:23.23 | curious | i still run ~500k images of 2.6.9 on few laptops |
| 01:23.26 | ente | jpd: I thought about reviving XFree86 |
| 01:23.52 | jpd | there's so many things I want to do, that I get around to exactly none of them |
| 01:23.54 | curious | while i see 2.6.38 compiles shamelessly into 5 mega bytes... |
| 01:24.08 | ente | floppies are obsolete :P |
| 01:24.10 | curious | ente, i'm all pro revival of XFree |
| 01:24.21 | curious | it's ... 1)smaller |
| 01:24.26 | jpd | 2.6 probably should've been stopped and moved over to 2.7 or 2.8 or something by now |
| 01:24.34 | curious | i still use it on several machines btw. |
| 01:24.49 | curious | they have 8M of ram, so even if i wanted i couldn't upgrade to Xorg ;p |
| 01:24.54 | jpd | how about some modern drivers in there? |
| 01:25.22 | curious | yeah, XFree would need just some nice updates, few bugfixes, voila |
| 01:25.24 | jpd | Xorg has gone a wee bit nuts over acceleration architectures. They're on the third or fourth alternative with separate acronym now? |
| 01:25.45 | ente | maybe if you glue enough? |
| 01:25.50 | curious | and they 'accelerate' just amount of bloat really |
| 01:25.54 | jpd | of course, it's also fairly clear that for mainstream you have to have something that can make use of all that lovely hardware |
| 01:25.54 | ente | well, there was another X release under the lead of freedesktop |
| 01:26.08 | ente | XFree86 is X11R6, Xorg X11R7 |
| 01:26.20 | curious | i.e. the base of the drawing routines of X remain crap |
| 01:26.21 | ente | I guess it wouldn't be all trivial to revive it |
| 01:26.29 | jpd | X11R6.4 was the split I thought? |
| 01:26.30 | ente | but the freedesktop guys are going in the wrong direction |
| 01:26.41 | curious | which is best seen on vesa drivers... each release actually makes 'unaccelerated' routines slower |
| 01:26.45 | jpd | or maybe I'm misremembering |
| 01:26.48 | ente | and the opensource reaction is to fork |
| 01:27.08 | jpd | X11R6.9 and R7 are basically the same except for deeply fscked up build changes in the latter |
| 01:27.20 | ente | you mean the package splitting? |
| 01:27.29 | curious | i'm not so against package splitting, just hell |
| 01:27.29 | jpd | that and moving away from imake |
| 01:27.30 | ente | 100 tiny packages with autoconf and header files? |
| 01:27.39 | curious | either one focuses on it , and doing it right |
| 01:27.51 | curious | or 'development' which means abi change each release |
| 01:27.52 | jpd | don't forget the "protocol" packages, whatever those may be |
| 01:28.16 | curious | well, some packages require just those 'proto' packages |
| 01:28.21 | ente | protocol? proto means prototype I guess |
| 01:28.24 | ente | which are headerfiles |
| 01:28.32 | jpd | the xcb package doesn't depend on python, it depends on the xcb "proto" and _that_ one requires python. runtime. for some reason. |
| 01:28.48 | jpd | I mean wtf jose |
| 01:29.05 | ente | http://paste.xinu.at/Kwe/ |
| 01:29.09 | curious | hmm, i think that was mentioned on xorg mailing list some time ago |
| 01:29.16 | curious | i think python isn't explictly required |
| 01:29.21 | curious | but i can't recall |
| 01:29.23 | ente | ah, that's the -dev |
| 01:29.42 | ente | but wait, they're all -dev, there are no non-header files in -proto |
| 01:29.50 | ente | (and pkg-config) |
| 01:29.54 | curious | i think someone even mentioned work-around of using python |
| 01:30.06 | curious | well, either way, package split eases such stuff |
| 01:30.21 | curious | i.e. one can just pick single package and fix whatever is broken |
| 01:30.33 | curious | (still not many ppl do it really ;) |
| 01:30.44 | ente | well |
| 01:30.59 | ente | maybe if we make a serious attempt to fix XFree86 |
| 01:31.11 | curious | in very theory it allows easier parallel development of xorg components |
| 01:31.18 | ente | but I feel overwhelmed of all the stuff that needs to be fixed |
| 01:31.36 | curious | well, xorg code base is still 99% based on xfree |
| 01:31.36 | ente | I always say "you can't unfuck what 1000 other people are working hard on fucking up" |
| 01:31.48 | ente | yeah, it might work with XFree |
| 01:31.50 | curious | there were no major changes, except mpx, and xrandr |
| 01:31.57 | curious | but many ppl hate xrandr already |
| 01:32.12 | curious | i.e. it's another change _forced_ on users |
| 01:32.24 | jpd | the package split is far less useful than it seems |
| 01:32.32 | ente | but there are other problems. like the www. |
| 01:32.40 | ente | a huge chunk of XML and javascript |
| 01:32.56 | jpd | and the proto thing is thus basically having all your non-dev packages depend on their -dev packages instead of the other way around |
| 01:33.01 | curious | well, afaik xorg 'development' is mainly bogus |
| 01:33.07 | jpd | that pretty much defeats the purpose for packaging |
| 01:33.13 | ente | a giant GUI toolkit, not a way to convey information -.- |
| 01:33.20 | curious | main changes from 3.3.6 which allowed dri were made when there was change to 4.0 |
| 01:33.21 | jpd | though it's the "intuitive" way if you're looking at it as a developer |
| 01:33.26 | curious | and that's about it |
| 01:34.02 | ente | didn't they come up with Xorg because XFree wanted to change the license? |
| 01:34.13 | curious | then some driver updates, glyphs rendering mess, and oh well. xrandr |
| 01:34.44 | curious | no idea about that, but commits changing license of various bits of code occur quite often |
| 01:34.48 | jpd | the thing with splitting packages is that I now have a sackload of different packages for each of the base libraries that all get sucked in anyway because everything depends on them and each has a sackload of dependencies too (python, perl, m4, iconv, expat, ...) |
| 01:35.28 | jpd | and I now miss all the little tools that I expect in that same "base" sackload but that nothing depends upon (xev, xmodmap, xkill, ...) |
| 01:35.37 | curious | jpd, but that (in theory) should be gradually fixed |
| 01:36.02 | curious | also, xorg has no 'meta' ebuilds yet |
| 01:36.12 | jpd | and since as a user (not a developer) you really don't upgrade a single base lib but all of them anyway, you might as well stuff'em in a single package |
| 01:36.37 | curious | well, except xorg-server, but it's not really meta |
| 01:36.49 | curious | well, i can admit Xorg ebuilds are quite poor aswell |
| 01:36.49 | jpd | not so the various drivers, but the base shared libraries could all be a single package preferrably with _no_ dependencies |
| 01:37.25 | curious | jpd, well, not really. as 'upgrades' often break more than they're fixing |
| 01:37.25 | ente | jpd: xeyes? :P |
| 01:37.37 | curious | jpd, many users choose to upgrade just what is absolutely nessesary |
| 01:37.52 | ente | not users of linux distributions |
| 01:37.53 | jpd | thing is, the whole thing is so developer centric it's a shame to let that loose on an unsuspecting public and the cynical-already sysadmins |
| 01:38.14 | curious | well, users of linux distributions are doomed from problems those distro imply |
| 01:38.26 | curious | so it's quite their problem |
| 01:38.46 | jpd | er, no, you need a matching set of basic libraries, for an upgrade in a lesser-used shared lib would cascade through to libX11 anyway, thus breaking everything anyway. or not, as the case may be. |
| 01:39.06 | jpd | you'd better handle those with a concurrent installs package management feature |
| 01:39.12 | curious | well, if u r using binary distro.. hell yes |
| 01:39.24 | curious | but then, why source-based distros got invented? |
| 01:39.46 | curious | and xorg devels advise - do NOT upgrade xorg if it works on your hw ;p |
| 01:39.55 | curious | most distros do not even ship old xorg builds |
| 01:40.06 | ente | seems the last changes to the XFree86 CVS were 2 years ago |
| 01:40.07 | jpd | what do you say is a "source-based distro"? |
| 01:40.19 | curious | buildroot ? :) |
| 01:40.29 | jpd | blah |
| 01:40.34 | curious | or various gentoo clones |
| 01:40.39 | ente | http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/ <- people updating release notes |
| 01:40.49 | jpd | double blah. people ran away from that, screaming. |
| 01:41.17 | curious | well, then they ran back into hell ;) |
| 01:41.34 | curious | reminds of ppl who came out of dungeon and couldn't stand light ;) |
| 01:41.49 | ente | I never used gentoo |
| 01:42.04 | jpd | there's a reason freebsd has its ports infrastructure and there's also a reason why it distributes ready-made packages (built using that very same infrastructure) too |
| 01:42.11 | ente | I think crux and slackware are the two distribution closest to sanity |
| 01:42.25 | ente | (if sanity is possible on linux) |
| 01:42.27 | jpd | none of that is particularly designed to pander to the whims of the Xorg bunch |
| 01:42.28 | curious | well, xorg has crappy ebuilds for gentoo though, and contradicting their philosophy |
| 01:42.37 | curious | i.e. aswell, no support for old versions |
| 01:42.58 | curious | i.e. there is not even XFree ebuild, even though it could build fine on most systems |
| 01:43.07 | jpd | and the thing is, the Xorg bunch are badly failing at this "but it has to work and be maintained in production too" thing |
| 01:44.18 | curious | well, if any of 'source' or 'binary' philosophies was 100% right, surely other one would die quickly |
| 01:44.35 | ente | looks like debian also got rid of XFree86 ages ago |
| 01:44.43 | curious | in case of polymorphic packages like Xorg gentoo does suprisingly well |
| 01:44.55 | ente | well, the point is that Xorg *does* work on linux |
| 01:45.12 | curious | but yes, most distro vendors treat Xorg just like another package |
| 01:45.22 | ente | it's just the support for *other* platforms that's getting worse |
| 01:45.28 | curious | from which u can expect that new version is new version, not dead-end-regression |
| 01:46.00 | curious | Xorg is quite an experiment though than anything suited for production use |
| 01:46.08 | ente | hm. |
| 01:46.19 | ente | it feels quite experimental indeed :P |
| 01:46.20 | jpd | X is the only thing on linux, so it _has_ to work, this way or that. so it _will_ be made to work, after a fashion. |
| 01:46.36 | curious | and then, most distro vendors just wishfull-thinking assume xorg is so 'big' it will just 'develop' |
| 01:46.49 | curious | basing on just amount of active devels |
| 01:46.54 | curious | xorg may just die in next year |
| 01:46.55 | ente | jpd: yes, and linux is the only thing that ever needs to work. Talk about linux and portability.... |
| 01:47.15 | curious | i.e. when ppl will turn to stuff like wayland |
| 01:47.18 | ente | curious: it probably will, because all the kiddie distros are shifting away to wayland now |
| 01:47.33 | jpd | wayland? |
| 01:47.39 | ente | yes |
| 01:47.50 | ente | the new freedesktop thing that's not network transparent anymore |
| 01:48.06 | ente | they do things via mmap to get faster desktop effects |
| 01:48.09 | curious | and i guess if just one hw gfx vendor will release good enough docummented video card with 3d ability, _whatever_ will support it will just take over whole market, as most toolkits can port easily to whatever works |
| 01:48.12 | ente | because that's all that ever matters |
| 01:48.40 | curious | even if it'll be directfb and directgl ;p |
| 01:48.45 | jpd | boo hiss |
| 01:49.24 | jpd | I don't mind mmap to speed up things and such, but at least shuffle it under the carpet such that networking would still work |
| 01:49.34 | jpd | or better yet, provide for graceful degradation |
| 01:49.47 | ente | yeah, same here |
| 01:49.58 | curious | well, u can write client handling network clients |
| 01:50.11 | jpd | there's very little that actually _needs_ desktop effects, so it's no shame to turn it off where you can't really afford to keep it on |
| 01:50.24 | curious | xorg looses big time because there is no sensible hardware implementation anymore |
| 01:50.31 | ente | but network-forwarding is one of the nicest features of X (even though most programs make bad use of it, and X isn't network-optimised at all) |
| 01:50.43 | curious | there is no single video card vendor which would implement xorg in GPU |
| 01:50.50 | ente | jpd: no, you're wront |
| 01:50.53 | ente | wrong* |
| 01:50.57 | ente | everything needs desktop effects |
| 01:51.10 | ente | if your windows don't wobble if you move them, you're doing it wrong |
| 01:51.12 | jpd | more reason to look at an X12 and see how the nomx peeps did it and learn from that and such |
| 01:51.22 | ente | it's the ubunturds taking over the opensource landscape |
| 01:51.26 | jpd | oh yes I am so wrong, how could I forget? |
| 01:52.05 | curious | and then, xorg can't be really yet implemented even in some devel FPGA board just because of all it's bloat |
| 01:52.08 | ente | yeah, you're a minority and hence wrong and irrelevant. desktop effects rule. we need wayland! |
| 01:52.29 | jpd | and damn all the good engineering to hell anyway |
| 01:52.36 | curious | not to mention noone really looks forward into it |
| 01:53.10 | ente | jpd: nomx? |
| 01:53.23 | jpd | wossname nomachine x or something |
| 01:53.28 | curious | well, the 'good' engineering was just thrashed out from mit as 'obsolete' project ;) so well |
| 01:53.33 | curious | perhaps for reason |
| 01:53.35 | jpd | low-bandwidth remote X |
| 01:53.43 | curious | gtg |
| 01:53.44 | ente | ah |
| 01:53.47 | ente | NX |
| 01:53.50 | jpd | there's one or two other approaches that do something similar |
| 01:53.52 | jpd | yeah those |
| 01:54.01 | ente | http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12 <- there's this page, but it just keeps getting longer |
| 01:54.33 | jpd | also too many details |
| 01:54.38 | ente | "Really a Window should only be an IPC name, with one or more associated pixmaps and etc." |
| 01:54.47 | ente | "and by IPC I mean DBus" |
| 01:55.28 | ente | ah, fuck this |
| 01:55.30 | ente | fuck computing |
| 01:55.31 | ente | good night |
| 01:55.53 | ente | I'm looking forward to see their redundancy stacks fail one after another |
| 01:55.54 | jpd | yeah fuck you too |
| 01:55.54 | jpd | and good night |
| 01:55.57 | ente | because it will happen |
| 01:56.54 | jpd | ok, so let's say X13. but I still think hashing out something that's more elegant, more effective, and less bloated would be intriguing |
| 01:57.20 | jpd | it'd involve a glock-like preparatory study though |
| 01:58.48 | ente | "research" |
| 01:58.54 | jpd | or maybe call it Y-windows, though something by that name already exists (and got killed stone dead by some loudmouth debian developer) |
| 01:59.04 | ente | good night, this time for real :) |
| 01:59.12 | jpd | nite then |
| 02:13.13 | CIA-54 | 03vda.linux 07master * rea684c6aaf23 10busybox/ (coreutils/ls.c testsuite/ls.tests): ls: fix handling of symlinks by option -1 |
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| 04:45.40 | CIA-54 | 03vda.linux 07master * r9ac5596a5154 10busybox/networking/udhcp/ (dhcpc.c dhcpc.h): udhcpc: emit "correct" secs field |
| 05:09.40 | CIA-54 | 03vda.linux 07master * r5c942713b736 10busybox/libbb/appletlib.c: busybox: fail if --install is not given an absolute path |
| 06:38.21 | *** join/#uclibc nataraj (~nataraj@122.165.223.135) |
| 06:38.44 | nataraj | Hi |
| 06:38.58 | nataraj | trying to patch u-boot in BR |
| 06:39.22 | nataraj | i have a git diff generated patch file which fails |
| 06:39.42 | nataraj | on "@@ -350,3 +358,25 @@" etc |
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| 12:27.30 | momesana | hi guys |
| 12:28.08 | momesana | I am trying to set up a crossdev environment so I can compile apps for my media player which is based on the MIPS arch |
| 12:30.02 | momesana | the environment I've setup using crossdev on Gentoo successfully compiles binaries from C using gcc. But when I compile a C++ program it fails to run on the target device with this error message: can't resolve symbol '__cxa_atexit' |
| 12:31.28 | momesana | gcc was compiled with __cxa_atexit disabled as can be seen in the output of mipsel-linux-uclibc-g++ -v | grep __cxa_atexit |
| 12:32.02 | momesana | The outputs says: ... Configured with: ... --disable-__cxa_atexit ... |
| 12:33.01 | momesana | The symbols is however there! The command mipsel-linux-uclibc-nm -anC test | grep __cxa_atexit outputs: U __cxa_atexit |
| 12:34.07 | momesana | I've pastebin-ed all compile logs of the involved tools here: http://codepad.org/6Fn6UK9k |
| 12:34.18 | momesana | any ideas? |
| 12:35.27 | momesana | btw, I have posted some more information on the gentoo forums: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6609941.html#6609941. Just in case you are interested to see what specific steps I've taken |
| 12:43.28 | momesana | oops, the logs are truncated |
| 12:58.00 | *** join/#uclibc PasNox (~pasnox@2a01:e35:8a99:6cd0:6ef0:49ff:fe58:2614) |
| 12:58.02 | momesana | The log file can be fetched here: http://www.fileshost.com/download.php?id=ACA925DF1 |
| 12:58.08 | momesana | It's about 8,4 MB in size |
| 12:58.31 | *** join/#uclibc risca (~risca@130.236.250.94) |
| 12:58.53 | momesana | I see a lot of "atexit" thingies in there :-s |
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| 17:13.49 | CIA-54 | 03gotrunks 07master * rcf8b55c40b65 10busybox/procps/pwdx.c: pwdx: new applet |
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| 20:47.25 | sobczyk | hello, is there any info how to run matchbox? (along with kdrive settings) |
| 21:28.27 | CIA-54 | 03jacmet 07master * r05955603ce67 10buildroot/CHANGES: CHANGES: update with recent changes |
| 21:28.29 | CIA-54 | 03jacmet 07master * r7266ed46535c 10buildroot/package/Makefile.package.in: Makefile.package.in: make <pkg>_SOURCE optional |
| 21:28.31 | CIA-54 | 03jacmet 07master * r3d0a56941254 10buildroot/package/makedevs/makedevs.mk: makedevs: convert to GENTARGETS format |
| 21:28.32 | CIA-54 | 03jacmet 07master * r707dc469aa4f 10buildroot/ (CHANGES package/makedevs/makedevs.c): makedevs: don't call /bin/sync after creating nodes |
| 21:30.52 | CIA-54 | 03vda.linux 07master * rb2d9d94c21b2 10busybox-website/FAQ.html: FAQ: move "standalone shell" into troubleshooting section |
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| 22:18.46 | *** join/#uclibc likewise (~likewise@82-170-243-215.ip.telfort.nl) |
