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| 01:56.57 | jeromatron | anyone able to run apt-get python-setuptools on jaunty without an error? seems like a pretty cut and dry thing to do... |
| 02:03.52 | Heartsbane | works for me |
| 02:04.46 | jeromatron | bah - well hmmm... looks like it maybe some network weirdness with my virtual box vm... thanks heartsbane :) |
| 02:10.38 | jeromatron | huh I got the network working again in the vm and couldn't get it to install, but found it in the synaptic package manager and installed it there. |
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| 03:24.03 | eightyeight | apt-get python-setuptools? |
| 03:24.11 | eightyeight | not apt-get install python-setuptools? |
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| 04:29.32 | Heartsbane | eightyeight: hehehe... you knew what he meant |
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| 12:05.25 | eightyeight | Heartsbane: well, he wasn't giving us any sort of error. just that it didn't work |
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| 17:01.01 | Zelut | herlo: does fedora come with mono included in the base install? |
| 17:04.23 | maquis | Zelut: out of curiosity, what's your rationale behind that question? (ie, is it good/bad for it to have mono included?) |
| 17:05.22 | Zelut | maquis: I'm pro-mono but I'm freaking sick of all the FUD around it, particularly in the ubuntu community |
| 17:05.40 | maquis | Zelut: interesting |
| 17:05.55 | maquis | honestly, i prefer distros that include as little as possible in the base install, so that's why i was curious |
| 17:06.02 | Zelut | I'm wondering if its an ubuntu-specific concern or if it reaches to every distro just as bad. |
| 17:06.18 | Zelut | maquis: I agree with the minimal install. I use FreeBSD on my servers and Arch on my laptops now. |
| 17:07.56 | maquis | i haven't heard much fud about mono, but i also haven't heard much about it in a year or two... |
| 17:08.20 | maquis | seems like last i checked, anything with mono seemed to depend on gnome for some reason, so i avoided it |
| 17:08.44 | eightyeight | people are backing away from it, because .net is patent protected by ms, and everyone is worried about patent warwith gnu/linux |
| 17:09.03 | maquis | ah... interesting |
| 17:09.10 | maquis | does it still depend on gnome? |
| 17:09.16 | eightyeight | no |
| 17:09.19 | Zelut | but .net being patented by MS is unrelated to mono in my mind. mono != .net |
| 17:09.24 | eightyeight | the reverse isn't true as well |
| 17:09.34 | maquis | eightyeight: cool |
| 17:09.41 | Zelut | it is a free implementation of the .net idea, but it is not .net |
| 17:09.44 | eightyeight | tomboy, f-spot and beagle are all mono-based, but aren't part of gnome core |
| 17:09.59 | maquis | that makes sense |
| 17:10.05 | eightyeight | Zelut: but, it implements the exact functionality |
| 17:10.10 | maquis | i just hate having to pull in lots of libraries for anything |
| 17:10.23 | maquis | so i generally avoid anything that depends on gnome/kde libs |
| 17:10.31 | eightyeight | yeah. same |
| 17:10.38 | Zelut | eightyeight: I know you and I are in agreement regarding the patents here though. |
| 17:10.47 | maquis | <-- overly minimalist |
| 17:11.04 | Zelut | if you are afraid of patents regarding mono/.net you should be afraid of every other software patent as well. |
| 17:11.05 | eightyeight | i do a debian base install, then install exactly what i want. openbox, some xfce4 tools |
| 17:11.14 | Zelut | the result of this means not using a fsking computer. ever. |
| 17:11.28 | maquis | eightyeight: nice... i do debian base install, then stick on evilwm |
| 17:11.35 | eightyeight | Zelut: exactly. gif, ogg vorbis, mp3, popups, and on and on |
| 17:12.00 | maquis | i thought ogg was open? |
| 17:12.09 | eightyeight | maquis: yeah. no kde. no gnome. no OO.o. no java. no mono. trying to get away from firefox too |
| 17:12.20 | eightyeight | maquis: it's patented, but non-royalty |
| 17:12.21 | Zelut | eightyeight: there are so many software patents for so many things it would be (read: is) impossible to use *any* software without potentially infringing on a patent somewhere. |
| 17:12.33 | eightyeight | Zelut: yeah. that's my point |
| 17:12.48 | maquis | eightyeight: i haven't found a good replacement for firefox yet... still looking, but having a rough time of finding what i want... |
| 17:12.54 | maquis | eightyeight: ah... didn't know that |
| 17:13.04 | Zelut | so if you argue mono should be removed for patent reasons only you are either uneducated or just a hypocrite |
| 17:13.17 | eightyeight | maquis: yeah. same here. epiphany is good, but not there quite yet. at least it does extensions though |
| 17:13.25 | Zelut | I'm just curious whether the same beat-the-dead-horse discussion happens in fedora as badly as it does in ubuntu |
| 17:13.38 | eightyeight | i'm actually looking forward to chrome, when it becomes stable |
| 17:13.39 | maquis | i tried opera for a while (when they had free licenses available), but it kinda sucked |
| 17:13.48 | maquis | eightyeight: i don't trust chrome |
| 17:13.51 | Zelut | maquis: I vote for any webkit browser. I really like Midori and Arora so far. |
| 17:13.53 | eightyeight | if it was free software, i'd use it |
| 17:14.05 | eightyeight | until then, opera stays off my machines |
| 17:14.11 | eightyeight | maquis: why's that? |
| 17:14.55 | maquis | eightyeight: well, my trust for google has been going down significantly over the past few years... and EULAs that claim the right to spy scare me |
| 17:15.05 | maquis | last i looked, that was part of the chrome eula |
| 17:15.16 | eightyeight | i thought it was opt-in |
| 17:15.28 | maquis | eightyeight: maybe it's changed since |
| 17:15.54 | maquis | i know when i initially looked at it, it was not optional |
| 17:15.58 | eightyeight | i like it for the technical aspects- each tab gets a pid, sandboxing javascript, etc |
| 17:16.07 | eightyeight | there really is no other browser on par. and it's fast |
| 17:16.19 | eightyeight | and, bonus, free software |
| 17:16.23 | Zelut | maquis: on another note, its been forever since I've talked to you. Are you still building the amazon machine? |
| 17:16.39 | Zelut | eightyeight: is chrome as free as chromium, because I don't think the two are exactly the same |
| 17:17.03 | eightyeight | Zelut: i thought they were. if not... |
| 17:17.45 | Zelut | eightyeight: I understood chromium was the community driven upstream of chrome, but chrome was a google-specific thing. |
| 17:18.06 | eightyeight | maquis: arstechnica has an article on the spying thing. google pulled it |
| 17:19.41 | eightyeight | Zelut: it looks as if chrome is bsd licensed? but the eula confuses me |
| 17:20.06 | eightyeight | nm- that's chromium |
| 17:21.14 | Zelut | 78% on my git pull. fingers crossed the world doesn't collapse. |
| 17:21.19 | eightyeight | it loks like it's mostly mit or bsd-based, which would allow it to go proprietary |
| 17:21.38 | eightyeight | but, it also has apache/mozilla based code, which i don't think allows that, does it? |
| 17:22.49 | Zelut | getting beyond my license knowledge at that point. I don't really know the mozilla license |
| 17:23.35 | eightyeight | bsd, mit, lgpl and ms-pl it looks like. but then there's the tri-license mpl/gpl/lgpl... |
| 17:23.53 | eightyeight | and the eula looks quite proprietary |
| 17:23.57 | Zelut | license soup! |
| 17:24.38 | eightyeight | hmm. so, now i need to decide if i make an exception for this browser, because of the code base, or not due to the eula |
| 17:24.49 | eightyeight | i've never made a distinction in that manner before |
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| 17:31.44 | maquis | Zelut: yeah... still working at amazon |
| 17:32.52 | maquis | good that they killed the spying thing |
| 17:33.13 | maquis | Zelut: expecting, now, though... so... :P |
| 17:33.25 | Zelut | maquis: congrats. we're expecting our second any week now |
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| 17:42.14 | eightyeight | maquis: congrats! when are you due? |
| 17:51.48 | maquis | november |
| 17:52.03 | maquis | Zelut: cool! that's exciting |
| 17:52.16 | maquis | november still feels forever away right now |
| 17:52.57 | maquis | it's been hard to focus on work or just about anything recently |
| 17:53.38 | eightyeight | i bet |
| 17:53.45 | eightyeight | do you know if it's a bay or girl? |
| 17:53.57 | maquis | we find out at the end of the month |
| 17:54.05 | Yorokobi | Aren't bays a breed of horse? :) |
| 17:54.05 | maquis | (which is currently feeling like forever from now, too) |
| 17:54.13 | maquis | Yorokobi: :P |
| 17:54.20 | maquis | actually, i believe it's a color of horse |
| 17:54.24 | eightyeight | ~lart Yorokobi |
| 17:54.24 | infobot | send killer squirrels to attack Yorokobi |
| 17:54.24 | maquis | not a breed |
| 17:54.38 | Yorokobi | Brown, black, white, bay, chestnut. Yep, you're right, maquis |
| 17:55.08 | Yorokobi | had to run-through his 4-H memorization for horse colors |
| 17:56.28 | maquis | never did 4-H... just went through a horse-loving stage when little (like just about every girl, probably) |
| 17:57.21 | Yorokobi | I had horses in the back yard growing up (my parents still do). Was in 4-H until I was 12. Haven't ridden a horse since. |
| 17:57.43 | maquis | Yorokobi: wow... nice |
| 18:00.14 | Zelut | freaking mysql. i'm going to murder you! |
| 18:00.22 | Zelut | can't get the database to import right. |
| 18:00.25 | maquis | Zelut: heh |
| 18:01.59 | Zelut | I have a mysqldump (--quick --add-drop-table --all $database) that runs weekly. I'm trying to import that .sql file as a restore and it doesn't work. |
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