| 00:43:14 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: what were you talking about before I left? |
| 00:43:23 | cpenguin_home | or rather, before you left this afternoon |
| 00:43:49 | cpenguin_home | nonUSians - what is the accepted way to indicate a US phone number in an international document? |
| 00:47:41 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: ahh, i don't remember |
| 00:47:58 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: any hints? |
| 00:48:12 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: something about VT media, and then asking about the Pixil SDK |
| 00:48:50 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: ohh, i was just harassing you |
| 00:49:12 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: pixil i was just wondering what the pixil sdk cost |
| 00:49:30 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: and didn't vtmedia shaft you guys on the stb? |
| 00:49:57 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: I shouldn't say that publicly, but you know the answer |
| 00:53:03 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: ohh sorry |
| 00:58:57 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: well when i open my english pub you can come down and pour beer for me, lol |
| 01:00:51 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: its a deal |
| 01:03:20 | sjhill | *sigh* why does LASH in busybox not read any '.profile' or similar files? |
| 01:04:02 | sjhill | nvrmnd...found it |
| 01:05:16 | prpplague | sjhill: hmm, guess thats why is called "lame ass shell" |
| 01:05:23 | sjhill | heh |
| 01:05:35 | sjhill | you have to put stuff into '/etc/profile' it's the only file that gets read |
| 01:08:03 | ntropy | anyone awake? |
| 01:08:54 | cpenguin_home | sure |
| 01:08:57 | cpenguin_home | why not |
| 01:09:03 | ntropy | hehe |
| 01:09:09 | ntropy | ever used a JTAG? |
| 01:09:16 | cpenguin_home | yep |
| 01:09:23 | ntropy | or flashed with a JTAG more specificly |
| 01:09:24 | ntropy | ok |
| 01:09:37 | ntropy | do i need to have the board powered? |
| 01:10:25 | ntropy | i've made the cable |
| 01:12:14 | cpenguin_home | yes |
| 01:12:47 | ntropy | so, do i need to reassemble everything and power it up and then use the JTAG? |
| 01:13:08 | cpenguin_home | yep |
| 01:14:19 | ntropy | k |
| 01:19:13 | cpenguin_home | oops |
| 01:20:10 | ntropy | oh, so, you can only connect the 2 boards one way right? |
| 01:20:22 | ntropy | i tried one way and it didnt fit |
| 01:27:15 | as_ | You can see where the rest button is, you know which connectors are on top... |
| 01:27:22 | as_ | reset. |
| 01:28:10 | as_ | Bit of a pain to put it back together, I attacked the case with a dremel to make it easier. |
| 01:30:27 | cpenguin_home | why? |
| 01:31:03 | as_ | Fitting the board ontop, lining it up properly, very difficult to get in. |
| 01:31:55 | as_ | You cant just push it down becuase of all the bits that poke out holes the back. |
| 01:32:43 | as_ | So I remove the plastic above the RS232 port and the reset button, much easier. |
| 01:36:13 | cpenguin_home | I did that ok, but I left out alot of the shielding |
| 01:36:28 | as_ | Ahh. |
| 01:36:37 | as_ | The ferrite bits? |
| 01:39:57 | as_ | Very odd design that. |
| 01:40:39 | Russ | ntropy: you don't need it reassembled, just powered up |
| 01:42:21 | as_ | Hmm, doesnt the power wire to the comms baord though, or am I remebering wrong? |
| 01:43:55 | cpenguin_home | William "The Refrigator" Perry is on Monday Night Football |
| 01:44:30 | cpenguin_home | He's wearing a hat that says thefridge.net - but its not up |
| 01:45:58 | Russ | macos8 is very hard to find |
| 01:47:03 | ntropy | Russ: how much to i need to put back together? |
| 01:47:10 | ntropy | Russ: just the 2 boards back together? |
| 01:47:12 | Russ | just the two boards |
| 01:47:18 | Russ | caus one has the power supply |
| 01:47:21 | ntropy | HM. |
| 01:47:22 | ntropy | yeah |
| 01:47:40 | ntropy | do you just use jflash then? |
| 01:47:47 | Russ | yup |
| 01:47:55 | Russ | ./flash < blob |
| 01:48:12 | ntropy | i'm hoping my cable is working |
| 01:48:31 | as_ | Test it first then. |
| 01:48:51 | ntropy | no multitester here |
| 01:48:55 | Russ | no need to test |
| 01:49:03 | Russ | ./flash < blob will sufficently test it |
| 01:49:11 | as_ | Thats cool then. |
| 01:49:38 | cpenguin_home | ./flash_locks is a good test too |
| 01:49:44 | as_ | Hmm, your cable is 3.3v right? |
| 01:49:54 | Russ | as_: ? |
| 01:49:59 | ntropy | as_: ;) |
| 01:50:00 | ntropy | er. |
| 01:50:01 | ntropy | ? |
| 01:50:21 | as_ | Where did you get the cable? |
| 01:50:26 | ntropy | i made it |
| 01:50:28 | Russ | as_: it works this way, you put some buffers that are 3.3V and 5V tolerant between the tuxscreen, and the parallel port |
| 01:50:36 | Russ | as_: and then you power them from the tuxscreen |
| 01:50:49 | as_ | So long as his interface works that way, its fine. |
| 01:50:56 | ntropy | well |
| 01:51:05 | Russ | the sa1100 isn't 5V tolerant |
| 01:51:07 | ntropy | i just make the cable thats on tuxscreen.net |
| 01:51:15 | ntropy | and i've got a JTAG doongle |
| 01:51:20 | as_ | Thats fine then ntropy. |
| 01:51:36 | ntropy | ./flash_locks doesnt seem to be working |
| 01:51:39 | ntropy | poop. |
| 01:51:54 | as_ | When people call it a 'cable' rather than a dongle or an interface, I get an attack of the 5v. |
| 01:52:13 | MonMotha | doesn't flash_locks still require 12V on the test pad? |
| 01:52:18 | Russ | ntropy: the tuxscreen has power? |
| 01:52:24 | Russ | MonMotha: only to unlock |
| 01:52:35 | MonMotha | Russ: oh, he's locking? |
| 01:52:39 | Russ | no |
| 01:52:48 | Russ | he is testing to see if his jtag rig works |
| 01:52:49 | ntropy | Russ: i plugged in the top and the hook light is blinking |
| 01:52:57 | ntropy | Russ: so it's got power |
| 01:53:23 | Russ | does the dongle IC have power? |
| 01:53:31 | ntropy | how does jflash decide where the parport address is? |
| 01:53:37 | ntropy | Russ: how do i know? |
| 01:53:37 | Russ | -p 0x??? |
| 01:53:47 | Russ | also, what parallel port type are you set to |
| 01:54:38 | MonMotha | generally your fisrt pport is 0x378, but linux should be able to tell you if you modprobe parport_pc (without the dongle attached!) then rmmod it before you try to use it again |
| 01:54:47 | ntropy | looks like it's set to PCSPP |
| 01:54:52 | ntropy | so SPP |
| 01:54:56 | Russ | thats fine |
| 01:55:51 | ntropy | flash_locks says it cant read the ID |
| 01:55:59 | ntropy | :P |
| 01:56:05 | MonMotha | needs to find out if his pports can read a full byte or jsut a nibble back on the data lines |
| 01:56:08 | ntropy | i didnt solder my header in place |
| 01:56:08 | Russ | ya, check with a voltmeter that the dongle IC is getting power |
| 01:56:17 | MonMotha | there's why :) |
| 01:56:17 | Russ | ntropy: heh |
| 01:56:28 | ntropy | the header is just set in the holes |
| 01:56:34 | MonMotha | that won't work too well |
| 01:56:35 | Russ | fix that |
| 01:56:38 | ntropy | but the holes are coated |
| 01:56:45 | Russ | "coated"? |
| 01:56:48 | Russ | you mean plated? |
| 01:56:49 | ntropy | soldering iron is at work |
| 01:56:50 | ntropy | yeah |
| 01:56:52 | ntropy | plated |
| 01:56:58 | Russ | that usually isn't enough |
| 01:57:02 | as_ | Gold flashed? |
| 01:57:05 | Russ | because the pins are bent to different degrees |
| 01:57:17 | Russ | to one or two pins have a good chance of not making contact |
| 01:57:39 | ntropy | hm. |
| 01:57:44 | ntropy | i'm going to testing something |
| 01:57:48 | ntropy | er. test. |
| 01:58:04 | as_ | Do it properly rather than risk frying your tux. |
| 01:58:52 | MonMotha | heh, you ain't getting another one if you do :) |
| 01:59:27 | as_ | You anrt getting any pudding if you dont finish your brocolli. |
| 01:59:56 | MonMotha | is attempting to directly interface a 1mbit flash rom using PC paralell ports |
| 02:00:03 | MonMotha | fun fun |
| 02:06:46 | Russ | MonMotha: you got some latches you are using? |
| 02:06:59 | Russ | or is it serial? |
| 02:07:28 | MonMotha | no, it's paralell |
| 02:07:34 | MonMotha | I've got three paralell ports :) |
| 02:07:39 | MonMotha | as I said, DIRECTLY :) |
| 02:07:57 | as_ | Are they all 100% glitch free? |
| 02:08:01 | MonMotha | I debated using some latches, but decided that my objective was to implement it entirely in software so that's what I'm gunna do |
| 02:08:12 | MonMotha | as_: now that I guess I'll find out now won't I :) |
| 02:08:22 | as_ | Only if it works. |
| 02:08:36 | MonMotha | not like I'm using this for anythign "mission critical" |
| 02:09:24 | as_ | Cards are usually fine, motherboard ports are sometimes dodgy. |
| 02:09:44 | MonMotha | this mobo port SEEMS to work at least on the data lines |
| 02:10:03 | as_ | If your tried JTAG with it, then its fine. |
| 02:10:14 | as_ | Youve. |
| 02:10:14 | MonMotha | haven't needed to do any JTAG |
| 02:10:38 | as_ | I'll be doing that for fun soon. |
| 02:10:51 | MonMotha | what's normally "dodgy" about them? |
| 02:11:21 | ntropy | MonMotha: making the interface cable is a pain |
| 02:11:24 | as_ | Glitchy during transisitons. |
| 02:11:34 | Russ | MonMotha: sounds like fun |
| 02:11:55 | MonMotha | ntropy: not really...I'm not using the normal JTAG dongle that they were selling - I built me own |
| 02:11:56 | MonMotha | my |
| 02:12:04 | MonMotha | and of corse I set it up for a tux, not a LART :) |
| 02:12:29 | MonMotha | Russ: oh yes...just getting all three paralell ports detected was fun enough (as one card wasn't labeled so I had to use trial and error to get it to the IO I wanted) |
| 02:12:37 | MonMotha | as_: any good way to test? |
| 02:12:42 | as_ | This MSI athlon motherboard was the bane of my life trying to interface some electronics. |
| 02:13:04 | as_ | Not without a digital scope, which frankly is the only reason I'm still sane. |
| 02:13:33 | MonMotha | parport0: PC-style at 0x3bc [SPP,PS2] |
| 02:13:33 | MonMotha | parport1: PC-style at 0x378 [SPP,PS2] |
| 02:13:33 | MonMotha | parport2: PC-style at 0x278 [SPP] |
| 02:13:44 | MonMotha | how many of you can honestly rip that our of your dmesg? :) |
| 02:14:02 | MonMotha | as_: hum, that would be somethign I lack and can't justify buying |
| 02:14:33 | as_ | I'm in doze, but I have 3 LPT ports currently installed. |
| 02:14:49 | MonMotha | as_: ah, a hobbiest's comp indeed :) |
| 02:15:01 | as_ | A few months ago I had 4, and 4 serial. |
| 02:15:11 | MonMotha | I didn't think doze could handle 4 pports |
| 02:15:16 | MonMotha | where's the 4th usually go? |
| 02:15:39 | MonMotha | I do have 4 serial ports |
| 02:15:41 | as_ | There are 4 'natural' settings for them, I think one is part crippled. |
| 02:16:02 | MonMotha | could have more except that my "multi IO cards" wont' allow me to choose many IOs |
| 02:16:28 | MonMotha | does "PS2" imply byte mode bidirectional capable or just that it's bidirectional (nibble or byte)? |
| 02:16:32 | as_ | Your using the crippled one in fact, only works in SPP mode. |
| 02:16:52 | MonMotha | naw, it's just old |
| 02:16:55 | as_ | SPP/PS2 that is. |
| 02:17:11 | MonMotha | the mobo is ECP/EPP capable but I have it disabled |
| 02:17:25 | as_ | Yeah it is, 3bc doesnt have enough space for EPP or ECP regs. |
| 02:17:27 | MonMotha | the two boards are old, in fact one is only SPP capable as you can see |
| 02:17:40 | MonMotha | as_: I can move the range around |
| 02:17:47 | MonMotha | configurable from BIOS setup |
| 02:17:48 | as_ | I avoid that one. |
| 02:18:07 | as_ | Ive had merry hell setting up one of my cards. |
| 02:18:09 | MonMotha | well, that was the only range other than 378 or 278 available, and my boards could only use 378 and 278 |
| 02:18:21 | as_ | Got to know the BIOS settings very well. |
| 02:18:21 | MonMotha | so the mobo got stuck on 3bc |
| 02:19:29 | MonMotha | heh, I've got all the parts here to build a shanip also...just need to build it :) |
| 02:19:36 | MonMotha | and second serial port |
| 02:19:42 | as_ | Hmm, actually, tell a lie, I have 3 ports plugged in atm, but not installed in doze. |
| 02:20:15 | as_ | I'll need it for a JTAG project thats about to land on me. |
| 02:20:43 | as_ | I need to reverse engineer a BSDL file so I can dump the flash from a box, that will be, interesting. |
| 02:23:03 | as_ | I suspect I'll spend a fair while reading jflash. |
| 02:23:47 | as_ | Over half the free JTAG info/code on the web seems to be based on jflash. |
| 02:24:39 | Russ | jflash is such butt ugly code |
| 02:24:41 | Russ | don't read it |
| 02:24:59 | as_ | Do you have an alternative? |
| 02:25:35 | Russ | rmk's code |
| 02:25:39 | as_ | I'm not sure how tristate works in boundryscan at the bit level. |
| 02:25:54 | as_ | rmk? |
| 02:26:01 | Russ | Russell King |
| 02:27:15 | as_ | Ahh, do you have a URL for the source please. |
| 02:29:16 | as_ | Arm linux project. |
| 02:29:26 | MonMotha | I need to actually set up this little project cart of mine |
| 02:29:34 | MonMotha | IE get all the paper and crap off of it an put a PC on it :) |
| 02:30:41 | as_ | Found 'universal JTAG reader/writer'. |
| 02:31:42 | MonMotha | isn't it amazing how the quick "one-liner" type things always end up becoming a standard? |
| 02:31:56 | MonMotha | heck, like the PC! :) |
| 02:42:28 | cpenguin_home | I still think there are IBM engineers that sit around and say "Can you believe all that crap actually worked?" |
| 02:44:11 | as_ | What the PC? |
| 02:44:26 | MonMotha | heh |
| 02:44:52 | cpenguin_home | IBM: "We've got this idea for a personal computer" |
| 02:45:03 | cpenguin_home | Intel: We'll, we've got this 8088 chip... its not perfect but... |
| 02:45:07 | cpenguin_home | IBM: We'll take it! |
| 02:45:13 | as_ | Not exactly... |
| 02:45:34 | as_ | More like IBM: "Shit everyones buying computers, why arnt we making them?" |
| 02:46:25 | as_ | They bought off the shelf boards to make it work, got someone else to do the OS and bingo. |
| 02:46:53 | as_ | One of the few big IBM mistakes. |
| 02:48:10 | cpenguin_home | I think that if they had managed it better, it might not have gotten as big as it did |
| 02:48:46 | as_ | If IBM had done it properly, it would have been just as big, but they would own the monopoly. |
| 02:49:20 | bhima | no, their profit margins were too large. |
| 02:49:29 | bhima | they believed that price should be proprotional to performance. |
| 02:49:55 | as_ | That depends on your definition of 'properly'. |
| 02:49:56 | cpenguin_home | anyway, who cares... they lost we won |
| 02:50:03 | cpenguin_home | *yaaa* |
| 02:50:06 | as_ | Whos 'we'? |
| 02:50:22 | bhima | properly as in with the type of business model they seemed to like. |
| 02:50:29 | as_ | Id take IBM rather than m$ personally. |
| 02:50:51 | as_ | Though IBM is a pretty weird company. |
| 02:50:52 | bhima | IBM doesn't screw customers. bleed, yes, but not dry. |
| 02:51:05 | cpenguin_home | pretty close |
| 02:51:25 | as_ | IBM dictated the spec of the PC because everyone in buisness automatically bought from IBM. |
| 02:52:27 | as2 | Re. |
| 02:52:32 | as2 | <as_> IBM dictated the spec of the PC because everyone in buisness automatically bought from IBM. |
| 02:53:27 | as2 | They were short on time, and had a very limited budget, so they used off the shelf bits and someone elses OS. Very big departure from the normal way IBM worked. |
| 02:53:53 | as2 | Normally IBM did absolutly everything in house. |
| 02:56:08 | as2 | Russ, is your redirector working? russ.dhs.org gives me errors. |
| 02:58:37 | bhima | heh. interesting. one guy suggests etching printed circuit boards using paper. |
| 02:58:48 | bhima | (as in, photo etching using paper instead of transparencies) |
| 02:59:50 | as2 | Not a great idea. Paper has dyes in it to convert UV to visible. |
| 03:00:18 | bhima | he seems to think he gets very good results. |
| 03:00:35 | bhima | and he mixes his own etchant using hydrochloric acide and hydrogen peroxide. |
| 03:00:44 | as2 | I would expect very long exposure times. |
| 03:00:55 | bhima | 15 minutes. |
| 03:01:14 | bhima | more, yes, but not intolerably so. he claims he gets better results than with transparencies. |
| 03:01:15 | prpplague | bhima: fun |
| 03:01:16 | as2 | Greeseproof paper does ok if you dont want to use acetate. |
| 03:01:45 | as2 | HCl + peroxide is a bit volatile. |
| 03:02:00 | prpplague | i never got into etching my own, i wish i had, i'm a real artist with perf and wirewrap |
| 03:02:24 | as2 | Etching is a black art, and a real pain in the neck. |
| 03:02:25 | bhima | hmm. I'm getting more spam. not huge amounts, but more. my email address is on the web on 28 different pages. wondering if I should try to make it go away... |
| 03:02:38 | kergoth` | hugs spamassassin |
| 03:03:06 | bhima | it's been one every week or so, but I've gotten 1 a day for the last few days. |
| 03:04:12 | as2 | I wonder if photoresist would be ok with nitric acid. |
| 03:04:30 | as2 | If so I could probably etch a board in about 3 seconds, muahahaha. |
| 03:04:52 | bhima | as2: for somebody beginning, wanting to do single or double sided DIP (ie: no SSOP crap) stuff, what would you suggest I start with? |
| 03:05:04 | bhima | has seen various iron-on techniques. |
| 03:05:08 | bhima | no idea if they work well or not. |
| 03:05:26 | bhima | hey, I"m impatient. 3 second etching times would rock. |
| 03:05:27 | as2 | Id suggest you try SMD to be honest. |
| 03:05:36 | bhima | maybe hydrofluoric would be faster! |
| 03:05:37 | prpplague | bhima: the spam i was getting was bad, but it got really bad when i started getting spam for breat enlargement and yeastinfection meds |
| 03:05:51 | as2 | HF is a weaker acid than HCl ;] |
| 03:06:02 | bhima | as2: bah. I'm not a chemist. |
| 03:06:22 | bhima | it's nastier, though, and nastier is stronger, right? :) |
| 03:06:47 | as2 | Its a lot nastier, and a lot more toxic, but its crappyier at dissolving metals. |
| 03:07:00 | bhima | why would you suggest SMT? |
| 03:07:21 | as2 | IT eats through glass becuase it forms silicon fluorides. |
| 03:07:35 | as2 | Several reasons, drilling a few holes is easy. |
| 03:07:48 | as2 | Drilling over a hundred is a *real* pain. |
| 03:08:04 | MonMotha | I should learn to etch boards |
| 03:08:06 | as2 | Lining up both sides is another real pain. |
| 03:08:07 | MonMotha | would be very useful |
| 03:08:35 | as2 | Not to mention, if your tracks are too small, when you drill the tear off. |
| 03:08:53 | bhima | hey, my board is 2/3 done, and it only has 380 holes. |
| 03:09:13 | bhima | wonders who he knows that has CNC gear he could use for this... |
| 03:09:29 | as2 | SMT is basically not a lot more difficult. |
| 03:10:09 | as2 | If you pre wet the board it solders easily, and the spacing is the same as a DIP board with 1 track through the middle of each DIP contact. |
| 03:10:15 | bhima | I'm using the free app PCB. it doesn't seem to be as happy dealing with SMT (in the sense of, doesn't look easy to properly do double sided) |
| 03:10:38 | bhima | yeah. I think you are probably right. but I spent _so_ much time on this board. hrm. |
| 03:10:45 | as2 | I use layout in eagleCAD by hand. |
| 03:11:13 | as2 | I spent a very long time on a FPGA board, utter nightmare, used through hole and DIP chips. |
| 03:11:58 | as2 | It took me days to find and kill all thr shorts on the board after etching. |
| 03:12:00 | MonMotha | hum...free apps for designing PCBs... |
| 03:12:32 | as2 | I'm thinking very seriosly about using a PCB service. |
| 03:12:41 | MonMotha | expensive.. |
| 03:12:47 | as2 | Etching boards is a nightmare. |
| 03:13:00 | bhima | you can get a pro board made for not that much, surprisingly. |
| 03:13:03 | MonMotha | I wouldn't know, but I can believe it |
| 03:13:18 | MonMotha | how much is "not that much"? :) |
| 03:13:35 | bhima | ~$33 / board, min 2 or 3. |
| 03:13:45 | bhima | a few places have deals like that. |
| 03:13:58 | bhima | double sided, through hole, some have solder mask on one side, iirc. |
| 03:14:15 | bhima | ick. 4"x3.2" max size? hrm. |
| 03:14:31 | as2 | Oh, and if either of you ever try etching, never ever try spay on photoresist. |
| 03:14:53 | bhima | as2: where should I go for cheapish positive photo-resist boards...? |
| 03:15:32 | as2 | I'm in the UK, I buy from either RS (not radioshack) or farnell (cheaper). |
| 03:15:54 | as2 | wb Russ. |
| 03:16:15 | bhima | I liked RS when I was in the UK. |
| 03:16:27 | as2 | Yeah, not cheap though. |
| 03:16:28 | Russ | my mobo determined that my cpu fan sucked |
| 03:16:39 | bhima | I went to one of their counters and bought 10 surface mount resistors once. |
| 03:16:47 | bhima | they were very confuzzled. I was about 15. |
| 03:16:49 | Russ | still looking for os8 if ne1 has it plz msg me |
| 03:16:51 | Russ | heh |
| 03:17:24 | bhima | as2: so how would you compare and contrast eaglecad vs. pcb? |
| 03:17:30 | MonMotha | Russ: would you rather it determine at a later time that your processor sucks? :) |
| 03:17:39 | as2 | Will russ.dhs.org be back now Russ? |
| 03:17:54 | Russ | it wasn't gone |
| 03:17:56 | Russ | thats a different box |
| 03:18:07 | Russ | 19:41:22 up 75 days, 13:44, 2 users, load average: 0.10, 0.04, 0.01 |
| 03:18:08 | as2 | Getting errors when I try to access it. |
| 03:18:16 | Russ | russ.dhs.org:8000? |
| 03:18:42 | MonMotha | hey, anyone have any good resources for info on interfacing small flash chips? |
| 03:18:43 | as2 | Not sure about 8000, following links from tuxscreen.net |
| 03:18:52 | Russ | make sure you are using port 8000 |
| 03:18:57 | as2 | Ok. |
| 03:19:26 | as2 | Ahh, thats the problem. |
| 03:19:31 | bhima | mmonmotha: PICs are flash and small! :) |
| 03:19:43 | bhima | I think that you can use a very simple bus for MMC ones. |
| 03:19:51 | bhima | i2c, possibly even. |
| 03:19:54 | as2 | I havnt used eagle as an autorouter so far, and thats where most of the quality normally lies. |
| 03:19:56 | MonMotha | bhima: how about over a paralell port :) |
| 03:20:06 | MonMotha | and just normal 1mbit flash roms :) |
| 03:20:07 | as2 | I just use it as a glorified paint package. |
| 03:20:54 | MonMotha | as2: beats what I've been doign my design in: xfig :) |
| 03:21:17 | as2 | I dont know what that is ;] |
| 03:21:26 | as2 | I'm also not a linux user yet. |
| 03:21:37 | MonMotha | xfig is a VERY basic vector drawing prog |
| 03:21:58 | as2 | Vector drawing, ok, thats bad. |
| 03:22:00 | bhima | as2: that's easy to fix! :) |
| 03:22:18 | MonMotha | it's got rulers and such, you can do very basic work in it |
| 03:22:29 | MonMotha | but it essentially boils down to a simple vector drawing prog |
| 03:22:32 | bhima | the popup help on one of the buttons in eagle is "ratsnest" |
| 03:23:25 | Russ | MonMotha: use pcb |
| 03:23:27 | bhima | as2++ for pointing me towards eagle. |
| 03:23:47 | bhima | pcb is nice for simple through hole stuff, but it doesn't seem to have a nice way to do double sided SMT. |
| 03:24:02 | Russ | I've used it for that |
| 03:24:30 | MonMotha | dammit no ebuild of pcb |
| 03:25:11 | as2 | Ok, 5:30 am, and I need some serios sleep, nite all. |
| 03:25:14 | bhima | russ: how do you tell it to put a chip on the backside of a board? |
| 03:25:16 | bhima | g'night as. |
| 03:25:25 | Russ | bhima: you flip to the backside (tab) and place it |
| 03:25:53 | Russ | http://russ.dhs.org:8000/screenshots/pcb.jpg |
| 03:26:58 | MonMotha | hum, I guess I'll have to compile pcb by hand |
| 03:27:04 | Russ | I have 1.99c |
| 03:28:31 | MonMotha | anyway, I must be going to bed |
| 03:28:31 | MonMotha | gn |
| 04:30:56 | cpenguin_home | nite |
| 04:41:04 | scanline | is back (gone 08:45:52) |
| 13:07:24 | CosmicPenguin | good morning |
| 13:07:37 | CosmicPenguin | markl: is that you? |
| 13:10:04 | markl | yep |
| 13:10:19 | markl | trying out our new subnet |
| 13:10:48 | CosmicPenguin | new subnet? |
| 13:10:50 | CosmicPenguin | drools |
| 13:11:13 | CosmicPenguin | what do you know that i don't? Are we going to get more than 256 employees? |
| 13:11:28 | markl | no, our isp is phasing out the old ones (e.g. 208.219.23.*) |
| 13:11:37 | markl | no new bandwidth, sadly |
| 13:11:56 | markl | we need an OC-12! |
| 13:12:11 | CosmicPenguin | phasing out? What do you mean by that? |
| 13:12:45 | CosmicPenguin | Once you get the IP block, its yours. Its not like its last years model or anything. |
| 13:12:57 | markl | well it was actualy worldcom's addresses |
| 13:13:04 | markl | now aros has their own |
| 13:13:27 | markl | <-- english major |
| 13:25:35 | scanline | is away: breakfast |
| 13:43:58 | scanline | is back (gone 00:18:24) |
| 13:53:15 | CosmicPenguin | dammit - sorphin isn't here.... we could bad mouth Worldcom |
| 14:01:48 | CosmicPenguin | I like these - I might have to get a few for giggles |
| 14:01:51 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/634/index.html#CFA634TMCKS |
| 14:11:16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: argh, you know anything about linksys 802.11b aps? |
| 14:15:18 | CosmicPenguin | only that we have one here in the office |
| 14:15:36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, i can't seem to get these dlink cards to connect to the linksys ap |
| 14:15:51 | CosmicPenguin | any error messages? |
| 14:16:04 | CosmicPenguin | bad ESSID? |
| 14:16:16 | CosmicPenguin | wrong protocol (802.11A vs 802.11B)? |
| 14:19:21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: naw, all of that is correct, as far as i can tell |
| 14:32:10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: argh, freakin morons in inventory gave a card that had already been test bad! |
| 14:32:45 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/4169843.htm |
| 14:32:56 | CosmicPenguin | Check out the story about the super computer. I turned down a job offer with those guys 2 years ago |
| 14:37:05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ak, guess your regreting that now, lol |
| 14:38:36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i feel like the guy on office space right about now, "i don't think i'm going to go to work anymore...." |
| 14:39:37 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: time to start your own gig? |
| 14:40:10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya an english pub |
| 14:40:49 | kergoth | prpplague: know how ya feel |
| 14:41:02 | kergoth | prpplague: i'm thinking, a casino with stripping female blackjack dealers |
| 14:41:05 | kergoth | prpplague: ;) |
| 14:41:18 | prpplague | pub in front, large linux/hack think tank in the back |
| 14:42:06 | prpplague | kergoth: lol, i'm actually serious, i mailed my background check paper work of yesterday morning for a liquor license |
| 14:42:27 | kergoth | hey, go for it |
| 14:42:29 | kergoth | what the hell? |
| 14:42:40 | kergoth | even in this market.. shit *more* so in this market, people need to drink |
| 14:42:46 | prpplague | lol |
| 14:43:11 | kergoth | i was thinking of going to bartending school |
| 14:43:15 | kergoth | i shit you not |
| 14:43:18 | kergoth | at least there's money there |
| 14:43:22 | kergoth | heh |
| 14:43:23 | prpplague | probably won't happen for a couple of years or unless i get myself fired for telling the sales ppl to shove it |
| 14:43:43 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: the guy who did our STB has a hardware lab in a barn, and a pub in the old milking shed |
| 14:43:45 | CosmicPenguin | Cocom |
| 14:43:50 | kergoth | hah |
| 14:47:52 | prpplague | sjhill: <nag>you find those broadcom linux drivers?</nag> |
| 14:49:16 | sjhill | prpplague: nope, yesterday i had a release and today i have another one...shoot, i'm taking a day off tomorrow just to get caught up at home |
| 14:49:33 | prpplague | sjhill: ok np |
| 14:51:48 | prpplague | sjhill: is there a contact at broadcom that i could talk to about these cards? |
| 14:52:10 | sjhill | i would have to take the time to look up the contact |
| 14:54:50 | prpplague | sjhill: ok, no problem then |
| 14:54:58 | prpplague | sjhill: i'll tackle it later |
| 14:55:19 | prpplague | sjhill: i guess i could use these 400 cards for wall decorations :) |
| 17:08:46 | prpplague | sjhill: wb, thought you;d headed home for some r&r |
| 17:09:37 | sjhill | prpplague: nah, just needed to concentrate on some stuff |
| 17:09:43 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:31:13 | bhima | eaglecad looks like it rocks so much :) |
| 17:31:28 | sorphin | you mean for pcb stuff? |
| 17:31:32 | bhima | yes. |
| 17:31:39 | sorphin | yeah, it's ok |
| 17:34:13 | bhima | only ok? |
| 17:34:24 | bhima | any suggestions for better software...? |
| 17:34:48 | sorphin | well, i've looked at protel DXP.. (tho it's windows, but that's what i have at work, and as a dual boot option at home on one of hte boxes) |
| 17:36:14 | bhima | cost? |
| 17:36:33 | sorphin | dunno, i don't "buy" software :P |
| 17:36:44 | sorphin | think it'd cost like $7k |
| 17:36:45 | sjhill | hey sorphin |
| 17:36:53 | sorphin | so i just grabbed the demo and the crack :P |
| 17:36:59 | sorphin | sjhill: allo steveo |
| 17:41:18 | sorphin | sjhill: it's all the fault of your faulty encoder *grin* |
| 17:41:29 | sjhill | i'm not surprised |
| 17:42:00 | sorphin | actually it's not, but it seems the tivo series2 has been redesigned yet again :P |
| 17:42:01 | sorphin | bastards |
| 17:42:17 | sorphin | htey seem to have a tuner interaction w/ the mips on channel 27 |
| 17:42:46 | sorphin | they claim they fix it in software, but what i hear from ppl that have the prob, not _completely_.. |
| 17:43:06 | sorphin | and apparently the new board's smaller.. still using your chips tho |
| 17:43:14 | sorphin | figures they'd pull somehting like this.. |
| 17:43:21 | sorphin | andersee: ack, not you again |
| 17:49:34 | andersee | yeah, I know... |
| 17:52:46 | sorphin | andersee: tho, you're better than that file kid, tho.. |
| 17:54:31 | andersee | thanks I guess. |
| 17:54:37 | andersee | :-) |
| 17:54:45 | sorphin | grins |
| 17:55:19 | sorphin | nah, you're alright, just givin ya shit.. (gota releave all this damn stress i'm getting at work somehow :P ) |
| 17:55:27 | file | is tempted to install Gentoo on droid |
| 18:02:46 | prpplague | andersee: ha i just noticed bb is included in the install of rhat7.3 |
| 18:10:26 | sjhill | sorphin: i've found sex to be a great release...oops sorry that wouldn't apply to you |
| 18:10:46 | file | ooh - burn |
| 18:10:50 | sorphin | sjhill: and how would you know Mr. Iowa |
| 18:11:15 | file | arg matey |
| 18:11:19 | sorphin | file: fuck off kid you wouldn't even know what sex is other than your 2 hands |
| 18:11:44 | sjhill | sorphin: hey, it's boring in the midwest, what else is there to do BUT that? |
| 18:12:00 | sorphin | sjhill: true |
| 18:16:13 | prpplague | sjhill: hmm, watch the railroad tracks rust? watch the paint on the city hall dry? |
| 18:18:40 | CosmicPenguin | Seesh - that was close |
| 18:18:44 | sorphin | ack! it's he weasel |
| 18:18:57 | sorphin | the even |
| 18:19:13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what? |
| 18:19:33 | sorphin | prpplague: prolly lightning after him again |
| 18:19:46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: were attacked by a gang of sex deprived amazons? |
| 18:19:51 | CosmicPenguin | I was running apt-get and it locked up my system - so I rebooted (after a 89 day uptime) and all I got was a LI... |
| 18:19:59 | prpplague | doh |
| 18:20:14 | CosmicPenguin | Plus, my fonts are all fuxored |
| 18:20:33 | sorphin | oops |
| 18:23:15 | sorphin | the last week (thankfully i have backup boot methods), i got: L?L? or somesuch |
| 18:28:19 | CosmicPenguin | L?L? Never seen that one before |
| 18:28:32 | CosmicPenguin | installs X 4.2.0 |
| 18:31:57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: arm or x86? |
| 18:33:12 | CosmicPenguin | x86 |
| 18:36:11 | CosmicPenguin | hmm... apparently it thinks that it needs kernel-smp |
| 18:36:43 | CosmicPenguin | it lies, it lies |
| 18:43:43 | CosmicPenguin | rebooting |
| 18:48:12 | CosmicPenguin | hello again |
| 18:58:48 | andersee | hello |
| 18:59:17 | CosmicPenguin | andersee! Long time no see.... how was sin city? |
| 19:01:25 | bhima | oh. that's why I can't sync my phone. no disk space on /. |
| 19:01:46 | bhima | I really need to keep an eye on that. |
| 19:10:12 | bhima | waves at bzflag. |
| 19:10:55 | bhima | ok. brilliant voicemail system. "I'm sorry, I'm not in. Please leave a message.", then the machien voice says "This person can not receive voice mail. TO transfer to an operator, press zero. |
| 19:11:04 | bhima | I press zero. "Invalid entry. TO transfer to an operator, press zero." |
| 19:11:57 | sorphin | haha |
| 19:13:44 | kergoth | lol |
| 19:16:39 | prpplague | bhima: your not calling censoft are you? |
| 19:16:59 | bhima | calling a lawyer. |
| 19:17:00 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: wow... |
| 19:17:29 | prpplague | prpplague --mode harrass |
| 19:17:37 | sorphin | he's calling a lawyre about censoft prolly |
| 19:17:45 | sorphin | lawyer even |
| 19:19:47 | Russ|werk | hey andersee |
| 19:20:03 | sjhill | Russ|werk: i think he's dead |
| 19:20:27 | sorphin | sjhill: nah, he was born looking like that |
| 19:20:47 | Russ|werk | did you try poking him with a stick? |
| 19:21:00 | sjhill | no, didn't try stick yet |
| 19:21:08 | sjhill | pokes andersee with pointy stick |
| 19:21:43 | prpplague | notices flys buzzing around andersee's nic |
| 19:21:50 | sjhill | eeewww |
| 19:25:00 | sorphin | prpplague: like they do around your POS's? |
| 19:25:25 | prpplague | sorphin: only at the POS's in the meat department |
| 19:25:38 | Russ|werk | that'd be a cool logo for a POS |
| 19:25:44 | Russ|werk | a little term with flies buzzing around it |
| 19:26:08 | sorphin | they already buzz around prpPLAGUE |
| 19:26:08 | CosmicPenguin | nobody would get the pun... :) |
| 19:26:30 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: yeah, prolly not |
| 19:26:37 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i think a term with a woman spread wide, since most ppl get screwed when they pay the price for these POS |
| 19:27:13 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: in that case, you should ship everyone with a free sample of vasoline and a pack of cigarettes... :) |
| 19:27:19 | sorphin | hehe |
| 19:28:02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lol, ya that should be a part of the "IBM SurePos" installation package |
| 19:28:12 | Russ|werk | naw, ship them a sample of astroglide |
| 19:28:37 | andersee | sjhill: ouch |
| 19:28:41 | sorphin | prpplague: it "sure(isa)Pos |
| 19:28:45 | sorphin | " |
| 19:28:49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just remember, our POS are linux based and are 1/10 of the cost of most units, its mainly the legacy stuff thats a nightmare |
| 19:29:15 | prpplague | speaking of ibm, i need to check and see if the "vapor" drivers are available |
| 19:29:20 | sorphin | prpplague: oh, like those ones that ibm's been promising drivers for for 30000000 years now? |
| 19:29:21 | sorphin | grins |
| 19:29:26 | bhima | apple's ical software still seems beta-like. |
| 19:29:30 | bhima | "19:00PM" |
| 19:29:49 | sorphin | ha |
| 19:29:59 | prpplague | sorphin: yep - http://www2.clearlake.ibm.com/store/support/html/drivers.html |
| 19:30:14 | prpplague | sorphin: they aren't even changing the date now |
| 19:30:25 | sorphin | hehe |
| 19:31:01 | sorphin | prpplague: heh, JavaPOS... least that acronym is accurate :P |
| 19:31:12 | prpplague | sorphin: amen |
| 19:31:26 | sorphin | Java (is a) POS |
| 19:31:46 | sorphin | and guess what, i get to now support yet ANOTHER app written in fscking java |
| 19:31:50 | sorphin | this time, by Nortel |
| 19:31:58 | sorphin | the instal script, had to be tweaked |
| 19:32:00 | sorphin | AND |
| 19:32:05 | sorphin | the jre they ship w/ it |
| 19:32:14 | sorphin | is broken , i had to use the machine's native jre |
| 19:32:16 | sorphin | just to run |
| 19:33:31 | prpplague | sorphin: ahh, fun |
| 19:33:46 | sorphin | yeah, right... that's why i have this migraine atm |
| 19:33:51 | CosmicPenguin | Seriously - there has to be a high level conspieracy going on - nobody I know likes Java, yet somebody keeps pushing it |
| 19:33:58 | CosmicPenguin | The question is, who is that clueless? |
| 19:34:05 | sorphin | Sun |
| 19:34:29 | sorphin | and the drone developers who write this crap in it |
| 19:34:43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: funny, the only ppl i see using it is specialized hardware ppl that want some standard interface on different os's |
| 19:34:44 | CosmicPenguin | Sun can't be *that* influential, can they? |
| 19:34:54 | sorphin | $$$ |
| 19:35:00 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: one word - XML |
| 19:35:11 | bhima | I don't think it's just sun. it's called a bandwagon. lots of people like them. |
| 19:35:20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: almost every signature capture device comes with java based applications |
| 19:35:35 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: hey, XML is atleast USEFUL, java is slow, bulky, and no where near "platform independant" |
| 19:35:41 | bhima | up till last week, the only java I wrote was for embedded systems. |
| 19:35:58 | sorphin | i'd rather be castrated than *write* java |
| 19:36:06 | bhima | sorphin: it's less dependant than many other alternatives. I think taht the theory of what it wants is very...hypnotic. |
| 19:36:14 | levi | I would rather write java than be castrated. |
| 19:36:22 | sorphin | levi: wuss |
| 19:36:27 | bhima | sorphin: http://eunuch.org/images |
| 19:36:34 | sorphin | bhima: bah, any GOOD C is portable |
| 19:36:44 | bhima | (need to find an archive that has it; they pulled it off, apparently) |
| 19:36:55 | sorphin | bhima: um.. i'm at work anyways, thanks |
| 19:37:26 | bhima | oh, I write portable C. but I've used java code that did portable video playing and such. |
| 19:37:44 | sorphin | well, you don't support the apps I do |
| 19:38:01 | sorphin | ou VPN provisioning SW is written by cisco, in Java |
| 19:38:09 | sorphin | it'd be 500000000000 faster, and better in C |
| 19:38:25 | sorphin | but, it's in java |
| 19:38:40 | sorphin | so instead, i get to muck w/ a shitty jre |
| 19:38:50 | sorphin | and now the new Shasta app |
| 19:38:52 | sorphin | shivers |
| 19:38:58 | sorphin | i dont' get PAID enough for this |
| 19:39:57 | sorphin | hell, i'd rather work on POS's w/ prpplague, or be a bcm drone like sjhill or even censoft ;P or even works, digi like kergoth |
| 19:40:31 | sjhill | begs ChanServ for banning of sorphin |
| 19:40:47 | sorphin | grow up file |
| 19:41:14 | prpplague | sjhill: lol |
| 19:41:19 | sorphin | grr.. stupid mouse has disappeared... |
| 19:42:11 | sjhill | finishes uploading all his SSH keys to all of his accounts *sigh* |
| 19:43:08 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: you say that now, but thats prolly because you never debugged a zmodem implementation before |
| 19:43:09 | bhima | hmm. dynamic DNS. looking at the bind config files, I'm thinking of hacking it myself. ssh in using authorized key setup, and executing a script that figures out the hostname you're coming from and rebuilds the config file and -HUP's named. |
| 19:43:11 | sorphin | file: like they'd bann me, just because i can't stand you |
| 19:43:30 | sorphin | bhima: hmm |
| 19:43:37 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: yes i have |
| 19:46:23 | file | sorphin: why do you keep talking to me? |
| 19:46:47 | sorphin | last i checked, you were the one that initiated contact by talking about banning me |
| 19:46:56 | file | nope |
| 19:47:01 | sorphin | otherwise, i hadn't said squat to you |
| 19:47:15 | sorphin | now run along and do your homework |
| 19:47:17 | file | I said 2 two things when I came in, and been gone since - just got back |
| 19:47:37 | sorphin | yeah, you just got back and begged chanserv to band me |
| 19:47:41 | sorphin | ban |
| 19:48:05 | file | * sjhill begs ChanServ for banning of sorphin |
| 19:48:08 | file | that was sjhill, not me |
| 19:48:17 | sorphin | i coulda sworn i saw your name |
| 19:48:26 | file | negative |
| 19:48:27 | sorphin | but then, this damn terminal is all hosed atm |
| 19:48:33 | sorphin | then my appologies |
| 19:48:56 | sorphin | restarts this POS (but not an IBM one) |
| 19:49:03 | bhima | points out the "/ignore" command. |
| 19:49:12 | kergoth | growls |
| 19:51:56 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: a zmodem implementation? |
| 19:52:08 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: you mean there is actually a standard to implement? |
| 19:52:50 | Russ|werk | I was wondering what file did |
| 19:53:10 | file | Russ|werk: nothing... and he still went at me lol |
| 19:54:04 | CosmicPenguin | Russ|werk: Yeah, everyone just uses Chuck Forsberg's original file.... |
| 19:54:11 | CosmicPenguin | Thats what the standard is |
| 20:25:13 | sorphin | stupid kvm cables.. |
| 20:28:05 | CosmicPenguin | anyone know the redhat website for reporting bugs? |
| 20:32:19 | sorphin | mumbles |
| 20:33:31 | | no idea, cosmicpenguin |
| 20:33:31 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: redhat bug tracking system? |
| 20:33:52 | | OK, CosmicPenguin. |
| 20:33:52 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: The redhat bug tracking system is http://bugzilla.redhat.com |
| 20:40:07 | CosmicPenguin | bastards |
| 20:40:19 | | bugger all, i dunno, cosmicpenguin |
| 20:40:19 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: bastards? |
| 20:40:23 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: well.. it IS redhat |
| 20:43:46 | CosmicPenguin | the problem with bugzilla is that it is too involved and complicated for proper bug reporting |
| 20:44:03 | CosmicPenguin | it needs to be easier for the unwashed masses to deliver a bug report, not insainly complicated |
| 20:44:56 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: here here. i vote for a bug tracking system with a usable user interface |
| 20:46:19 | sorphin | s/user/luser/ |
| 20:47:15 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:04:59 | | Since Thu Sep 19 21:51:07 2002, there have been 837 modifications and 2905 questions. I have been awake for 19 days, 1 hour, 13 minutes, 52 seconds this session, and currently reference 84639 factoids. Addressing is in require mode. |
| 22:04:59 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: status? |
| 22:05:40 | | CosmicPenguin: excuse me? |
| 22:05:40 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: botsnak |
| 22:05:42 | | thanks CosmicPenguin :) |
| 22:05:42 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: botsnack |
| 22:05:56 | | i don't know, andersee |
| 22:05:56 | andersee | ibot: what is 6 * 9 |
| 22:06:01 | | 54 |
| 22:06:01 | andersee | ibot: 6 * 9 |
| 22:06:11 | | OK, andersee. |
| 22:06:11 | andersee | ibot: 6 * 9 is 42 |
| 22:06:14 | | 6 * 9 is 42 |
| 22:06:14 | andersee | ibot: 6 * 9 |
| 22:06:16 | CosmicPenguin | I guess they didn't get that NLP in there, huh? |
| 22:07:03 | | ...but 1 + 1 is <reply> 3... |
| 22:07:03 | andersee | ibot: 1 + 1 is 3 |
| 22:07:15 | | 3 |
| 22:07:15 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: 1 + 1 |
| 22:07:23 | andersee | muhahaha |
| 22:07:39 | CosmicPenguin | prepares to head home |
| 22:07:47 | CosmicPenguin | I eschew this terminal emulation |
| 22:07:48 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |
| 22:53:49 | MonMotha | hum, now I just need to get my pport into reverse mode |
| 23:01:14 | bhima | wow. $26 for a 6.3x3.9" PCB, double sided with solder mask, single silkscreen. |
| 23:04:04 | Russ|werk | andersee: hows it? |
| 23:04:09 | Russ|werk | bhima: HOW MANY? |
| 23:04:28 | Russ|werk | ER SOrry about the caps |
| 23:04:31 | bhima | for one. |
| 23:04:39 | bhima | $8 airmail shipping from bulgaria :) |
| 23:04:41 | Russ|werk | but how many are you tooling for |
| 23:04:57 | bhima | I have one car. |
| 23:05:12 | Russ|werk | so you are only orderinng one board |
| 23:05:31 | MonMotha | bhima: that sounds like a decent price... |
| 23:05:42 | Russ|werk | if its just one board, its an amazing price |
| 23:05:59 | sorphin | where at? |
| 23:06:05 | Russ|werk | I would expect the solder stencil alone to cost much more than that |
| 23:06:07 | bhima | www.olimex.com/pcb/ |
| 23:07:10 | Russ|werk | big tolerence (.008) |
| 23:07:33 | bhima | think that would be a problem for SOIC stuff? |
| 23:07:50 | Russ|werk | takes 3 times as long for tolenences above 0.010 |
| 23:08:03 | Russ|werk | bhima: you just have to make you via's bigger, and be more carefull in the design |
| 23:08:06 | bhima | right. that was interesting to note. |
| 23:08:21 | Russ|werk | copper tolerence + drill tolerence can be a big number |
| 23:08:33 | Russ|werk | so vias get hit hard |
| 23:09:00 | Russ|werk | also, you only have a set of standard drill sizes to choose from |
| 23:09:25 | bhima | $1.05/size for non-standard. |
| 23:09:39 | bhima | and $5 per board for different thicknesses. |
| 23:11:18 | Russ|werk | '* BMP,TIFF,GIF,PCX - pucture format (not preffered) ' |
| 23:11:24 | Russ|werk | heh, I'll send them a gif |
| 23:11:30 | Russ|werk | an animated one |
| 23:11:41 | bhima | ooh. one frame per layer? |
| 23:13:04 | Russ|werk | no, just to screw with their heads |
| 23:13:13 | Russ|werk | like it changes just a little every 15 seconds |
| 23:13:44 | Russ|werk | I do like the idea of paying $26 plus shipping and getting a board in a week |
| 23:13:48 | Russ|werk | its really unheard of |
| 23:14:25 | Russ|werk | 'The labour in Bulgaria is inexpensive' (we employ children under the age of 7) |
| 23:15:01 | Russ|werk | 'You will receive 20% for each consequencial order of your prototype board.' |
| 23:15:16 | Russ|werk | nice, and thats not even for simultanious orders |
| 23:15:50 | Russ|werk | and this isn't counting if you have a small board and you panelize it |
| 23:18:24 | Russ|werk | you get together with 3 other people who want small boards, panelize it, send it in...man, thats cheap |
| 23:19:34 | Russ|werk | but they don't mill or score them...bummer |
| 23:19:39 | Russ|werk | guess you need a good bansaw |
| 23:20:14 | Russ|werk | and you can't get unplated holes, no biggue |
| 23:20:17 | Russ|werk | er, biggie |
| 23:22:39 | Russ|werk | now I wanna design a board... |
| 23:23:04 | Russ|werk | think about how many holly gates jtag dongles or shanip2 mods could be made on one panel |
| 23:29:13 | sorphin | prpplague: the POS's are all out to get you |
| 23:30:11 | Russ|werk | andersee: heh 'http://lists.debian.org/debian-bsd/2002/debian-bsd-200209/msg00047.html' |
| 23:30:24 | Russ|werk | oh, you already got that one |
