| 00:00:23 | Russ|werk | so email sanitation packages attempting to strip by extension, won't see it |
| 00:00:43 | TomW | possible |
| 00:00:45 | Russ|werk | TomW: breaking up emails into smaller emails is something compeletly different |
| 00:01:02 | Russ|werk | TomW: what do you mean possible? I have the file here, I can send it to you |
| 00:01:15 | TomW | right, as we know it, from the standards. But M$ makes their own standards. |
| 00:01:41 | Russ|werk | actually, no, it seems they just borrowed code from iexplore to parse email headers |
| 00:01:51 | TomW | hmm |
| 00:01:56 | Russ|werk | which really leaves the door wide open to different interpretations of headers |
| 00:02:33 | TomW | correct |
| 00:03:02 | TomW | waves to as_ |
| 00:06:03 | as_ | waves back. |
| 00:06:35 | TomW | Russ: sorry, don't have any answers, just trying to give you a sounding board. |
| 00:10:09 | TomW | Russ: I was looking at shannon_irkbd.c today, in the hopes of clearing up the missing char stuff. |
| 00:10:35 | TomW | Russ: you have any ideas as to what I should watch for? |
| 00:12:23 | as_ | Small goblins stealing them. |
| 00:12:32 | TomW | heh |
| 00:12:58 | TomW | little green men with rayguns zapping the bits. |
| 00:13:04 | as_ | You dont happen to do any NT debgging do you? |
| 00:13:09 | as_ | Debugging. |
| 00:13:14 | TomW | pacman |
| 00:13:50 | TomW | NO! I won't touch that peice of^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H beast! |
| 00:14:00 | as_ | Fair enough ;] |
| 00:14:37 | TomW | I had access to one of their dev kits and looked at what it took to build a driver... nope, not interested. |
| 00:16:09 | as_ | I'm messing around with drivers myself currently. Trying to find a shortcut. |
| 00:17:05 | TomW | not it NT. |
| 00:17:13 | TomW | what are you trying to do? |
| 00:17:26 | TomW | s/it/in/ |
| 00:17:33 | as_ | MPEG TS packets. Still. |
| 00:17:50 | TomW | TS as in touchscreen? |
| 00:18:03 | as_ | Into anything I can code for. |
| 00:18:22 | as_ | No, Transport Stream packets, sorry. |
| 00:18:27 | TomW | k |
| 00:18:46 | as_ | The method in the madness this time is to take a WinTV NOVA card, hack off the front end and wire the TS stream in directly. |
| 00:18:51 | TomW | IMO, that is going very deeply into NT. |
| 00:19:34 | as_ | The hope is I wont have to code the driver myself. |
| 00:19:37 | TomW | you have the source for the NDVA card? |
| 00:19:50 | as_ | Just doctor the old driver. |
| 00:19:53 | as_ | Nope. |
| 00:20:28 | as_ | The driver is wired pretending to be an ethernet card. |
| 00:21:00 | as_ | I can sniff the packet stream, but I cant work out how its being controlled. |
| 00:21:48 | Russ|werk | TomW: I was going to go in and try to clean it up once the new flash driver got tested well enough |
| 00:21:53 | TomW | reverse engineering can be "fun", I have done a fair amount of that. |
| 00:22:03 | as_ | And the driver strips off all the TS headers, which is a pain. |
| 00:22:29 | as_ | I'm having enough fun reverse engineering the code on the box its coming out of. |
| 00:22:35 | TomW | Russ: is the missing chars because of the software (driver) or is it hardware related? |
| 00:23:19 | Russ|werk | pretty sure its software, because people are saying it wasn't like that in inferno |
| 00:24:11 | TomW | mmm, but then they could have had a hardware dispatcher in the software that avoided some collision of mismanaging hardware access / control. |
| 00:25:10 | Russ|werk | its just characters being read |
| 00:25:20 | TomW | the HSSP hardware is seperate from the other i/o controllers. No shared pins, etc? |
| 00:25:37 | Russ|werk | I dunno offhand, check the sa1100 manual |
| 00:26:05 | TomW | no, I meant in the Tux schematic. I will do the manual thingy though. |
| 00:31:00 | GPSFan | TomW: I hard wired my keyboard to the Tux for a while and never saw a dropped char. I had them all the time with the IR link. http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/KeyboardPix |
| 00:31:40 | TomW | GPSFan: must be a start bit issue then. |
| 00:32:37 | GPSFan | could be, I think andersee & I had a long discussion about it around 1/29-1/30/2002 |
| 00:35:17 | file | enough coding for tonight. |
| 00:47:25 | TomW | GPSFan: any resolution come out of that discussion? |
| 00:48:16 | file | hello Russ |
| 00:48:46 | GPSFan | TomW: we sort of came to the conclusion that it was a hardware problem, but your comment about the start bit... maybe that could be fixed in the SA1100 UART setup. |
| 00:49:02 | TomW | GPSFan: I am thinking that it is related to realtime handling of the hardware. The HSSP uart may be low on the interrupt food chain an the key release code might be being read by the time the ISR gets around to responding to the keydown interrupt? |
| 00:49:54 | Russ|werk | I think it might be the driver needs to be more tolerant of errors |
| 00:51:16 | TomW | GPSFan: I wouldn't rule out that it is simply a race condition. Maybe all that is needed, if it is a race, is to store that value of the last keycode, compare it with the current one and if the current code is a release value that doesn't correspond to the previous keydown code, jam a keydown & keyup into the keyboard queue? |
| 00:51:54 | TomW | use keydown as a "clue" that we missed one? |
| 00:52:06 | TomW | s/keydown/keyup/ |
| 00:53:03 | TomW | just some ideas, anyone care to shoot them down and save me some work? |
| 00:53:58 | GPSFan | TomW: that could work, when I looked at the signals comming out of the IR receiver they looked great, and I could get 15+ feet away before it stopped working, but it would lose chars when right in front of the window. I also looked for interference from fluorescent lights, ran my Tux in the dark and it still dropped chars. |
| 00:55:25 | TomW | yes, it appears to be some timing issue some where. Whether it is in the response time of processing the data stream from the uart RX register, or if it is a shared pin (hardware resource) that another driver is messing with... |
| 00:57:04 | GPSFan | TomW: the IR driver is one of those that put the data on a 38KHz (or so) carrier, the receiver is tuned to that freq, so as to reduce interference from TV remotes, etc. |
| 00:57:04 | TomW | What would be interesting is to take blob, hardcode it to do the IR recieve with the setup values within the current driver, then simply echo the incoming chars to the ttySA0. That should help isolate the problem. |
| 01:02:08 | Russ|werk | TomW: you can do that with the kernel |
| 01:02:29 | Russ|werk | I think its just the driver just is handling something wrong |
| 01:02:43 | Russ|werk | the code isn't very clean |
| 01:10:26 | Russ|werk | autorepeat timeout doesn't work, so who knows what that code is doing instead |
| 01:10:44 | TomW | Russ: probably is "something" in the driver, but were the register values for the HSSP confirmed? Are they correct? That is what I meant by using blob. Test the values placed into the HSSP regs (in the kernel driver), but do it under a controlled situation: without linux & the suspected interrupt latency problem. |
| 01:11:14 | Russ|werk | the registers were pulled from inferno, and confirmed by watching signals on an oscilliscope |
| 01:13:35 | TomW | ok, then we/I can skip that and go directly to the driver. What I am thinking of doing is to ioremap the ttySA0 so I can bang bytes out of it from within the IRKbd driver code and display the byte stream on a linux box. When a char gets dropped, look at the linux box display to try to see what happened. Probably get more clues that way? |
| 01:14:59 | Russ|werk | TomW: that is way easy to do from the driver with printk's |
| 01:14:59 | TomW | That could help, see if we did / did not get a char at that time, if so what was it? Was it a keydown or keyrelease. if it was a keydown, then we must assume it got dropped by the driver somewhere. |
| 01:15:15 | TomW | right, printk. |
| 01:15:28 | Russ|werk | like a said though, autorepeat timeout is b0rked |
| 01:15:34 | Russ|werk | who knows what that code is *actually* doing |
| 01:15:37 | TomW | ok. |
| 01:15:46 | TomW | time to find out. |
| 01:16:02 | TomW | I will look into it after mozilla finishes out on the Tux. |
| 01:16:03 | Russ|werk | the code is way to 2.2ish |
| 01:16:11 | TomW | oh! |
| 01:17:36 | TomW | yeah, it might be something stupid like a waitinterruptable function or such that is parametered as a 2.2 call and needs 2.4 parms. |
| 01:17:54 | TomW | thanks guys! |
| 01:18:10 | Russ|werk | the driver was cobbled together |
| 01:18:21 | Russ|werk | feel free to revamp major portions |
| 01:18:32 | TomW | heh |
| 01:19:02 | TomW | I think that compiling mozilla on the Tux was a dumb move on my part: 12.5 hours so far and still running. |
| 01:19:55 | TomW | I figured maybe 4..5 hours, but the thing has a lot(!) of c++ code in it. |
| 01:20:21 | Russ|werk | you could have snagged the debian package |
| 01:20:31 | TomW | nothing like good ol' efficient c++ to rain on your parade. |
| 01:21:25 | TomW | Russ: I have tried three times to install the deb package on the Tux, all three times it got lost in "Registering Chrome". I even let it run one time for two hours, still "Registering Chrome". |
| 01:22:38 | Russ|werk | its looking for entropy maybe? |
| 01:23:06 | Russ|werk | hit a bunch of keys maybe? or change urandom to random |
| 01:23:09 | file | frowns |
| 01:23:13 | Russ|werk | just look and see what files it has open |
| 01:24:00 | TomW | dunno, no messages printed out. I just decided that it was such an old release that I better get something more recent. I need email and they didn't fix email breakages until around 0.94. |
| 01:24:25 | Russ|werk | debian has 1.0.0-3 build for arm |
| 01:24:40 | TomW | Russ: how you do that? Check file status for opens? |
| 01:24:54 | Russ|werk | ls -l /proc/<pid>/fd |
| 01:25:37 | TomW | Russ: where! I spent several hours searching their site, also search engines. I couldn't find a more recent deb package than M18. |
| 01:25:45 | Russ|werk | its in pool |
| 01:26:46 | Russ|werk | http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mozilla |
| 01:27:06 | TomW | is that what that 'nautilus-mozilla1-0.4' is? From what I could see of it, I thought it was specific to some machine called 'Nautilus'. |
| 01:27:22 | Russ|werk | ? |
| 01:28:08 | TomW | shit, I missed that one! |
| 01:28:13 | TomW | :-/ |
| 01:28:29 | TomW | Oh well, no sense stopping the compile now... |
| 01:28:47 | Russ|werk | ya, its all in pool now |
| 01:28:48 | TomW | I have to get to know debian better. |
| 01:29:05 | Russ|werk | and on embedded systems, if stuff hangs, and the system is doing nothing |
| 01:29:10 | Russ|werk | it could be looking for entropy |
| 01:29:27 | TomW | entropy as in physics? |
| 01:29:32 | Russ|werk | I think it will pick it up off the keyboard, maybe if you bang on the keys enough it will work |
| 01:29:42 | TomW | entropy == deadlock? |
| 01:29:44 | TomW | heh |
| 01:29:47 | Russ|werk | are you familiar with the difference between /dev/random and /dev/urandom? |
| 01:29:55 | TomW | no |
| 01:30:08 | Russ|werk | /dev/random provides pseudo-random numbers |
| 01:30:14 | TomW | right |
| 01:30:19 | Russ|werk | /dev/urandom provides truly random numbers |
| 01:30:24 | TomW | ok |
| 01:30:29 | Russ|werk | it does this by maintaining an entropy pool |
| 01:31:09 | ntropy | say, Time usually emails ya before he mails out your tuxscreen, right? |
| 01:31:13 | ntropy | s/Time/Time/ |
| 01:31:14 | Russ|werk | entropy is basically "randomness" |
| 01:31:16 | ntropy | ack! |
| 01:31:18 | ntropy | s/Time/Tim/ |
| 01:31:36 | Russ|werk | so, reading from the entropy pool drains it |
| 01:31:40 | TomW | oh! you are not talking about a package named entropy, you are talking about a state of entropy? |
| 01:32:05 | Russ|werk | there are various functions in the kernel to add entropy to the pool |
| 01:32:21 | Russ|werk | so when a key is pressed, the time that it was pressed is used to add entropy |
| 01:32:32 | Russ|werk | the hd is the biggest source of entropy afaik |
| 01:32:46 | TomW | I know that some systems will take interrupt events and use them as the seed for their random generators. So you are saying that I should feed linux some "random" seeds by banging on keys. |
| 01:32:49 | Russ|werk | basically any random event can use the entory callback |
| 01:33:08 | Russ|werk | TomW: well, first see if its waiting on /dev/urandom |
| 01:33:37 | TomW | If it happens again, I'll keep that in mind, thanks! |
| 01:33:51 | TomW | Whew, they are right, linux is too hard to learn! |
| 01:34:28 | TomW | Just when you think that you have skills enough to deal with it, something new (old) comes up... |
| 01:34:29 | Russ|werk | I think thats a general OS thing |
| 01:34:55 | Russ|werk | and in *nix, the device is generally call, urandom |
| 01:36:17 | Russ|werk | s/call/called/ |
| 01:36:38 | TomW | ah, so the o/s is not constantly filling the entropy pool, it only gets data put into it when the specific condition(s) occur. In our case, kbhits, consequently, cause new entropy data . |
| 01:37:12 | Russ|werk | right |
| 01:37:40 | Russ|werk | there are other possible sources too, like network and rs232, but I don't know if they are being used |
| 01:37:57 | Russ|werk | generally, you don't want to use a source that someone else can measure accurately |
| 01:38:12 | TomW | Yeah, you cannot use a periodic timer event such as display interrupts / jiffies as they are highly predictable, likewise ethernet interrupts may also non-random charactoristics. |
| 01:38:39 | TomW | interesting. |
| 01:38:54 | TomW | actually it is very cool! |
| 01:39:27 | Russ|werk | well, ethernet interrupts could be random, but they could also be detected/predicted/influenced by a remote host |
| 01:39:40 | TomW | I like that, eliminates the need for a 10GHz reciever built into the system to listen to solar noise. |
| 01:39:44 | TomW | ha! |
| 01:39:58 | TomW | yup |
| 01:40:18 | Russ|werk | er |
| 01:40:21 | Russ|werk | I'm backwards |
| 01:40:29 | Russ|werk | /dev/random is the truly random one |
| 01:41:11 | TomW | in theory, if urandom is being used to build an encryption key, you don't want someone to have the least amount of external affect over how the data is arrived at within the entropy pool, I recall having read that some years ago. |
| 01:42:13 | Russ|werk | they probably wouldn't know exactly, but they could probably narrow it down to a few hours of calculation rather than a few months/years is I think how it works |
| 01:42:45 | TomW | well, I got to get out of here and go do something, anything. Maybe I will go in-search-of a new ice cream bar.. |
| 01:43:33 | TomW | Correct, any external controllable effect could skew the seed data. |
| 01:44:03 | TomW | reduce the number of numerical sets(?word) to a narrower range. |
| 01:44:45 | Russ|werk | there are a whole bunch of cool methods for gathering entropy for servers that do secure transactions |
| 01:44:46 | TomW | not that they could predict the starting value in entropy, but they could narrow down the range of random values. |
| 01:44:55 | Russ|werk | like fan noises, temperatures, etc |
| 01:45:00 | TomW | umhum |
| 01:45:13 | TomW | galactic noise. |
| 01:45:16 | Russ|werk | or hardware designed for that purpose |
| 01:45:39 | TomW | .. US military operations in Bosnia... |
| 01:45:45 | TomW | lol |
| 01:45:53 | Russ|werk | heh |
| 01:46:03 | Russ|werk | lava lamps have actually been used |
| 01:46:27 | TomW | Hey, thanks Russ for the brain tease, I got to go do my mental health thing now: play with my car. |
| 01:46:31 | TomW | later |
| 01:46:34 | Russ|werk | later |
| 01:59:54 | prpplague | anyone seen one of those 3 head lcd workstations like whats on stargate sg-1 for sale anywhere? |
| 02:03:38 | prpplague | man its quite around here today...... |
| 02:25:23 | Morn | hi prpplague |
| 02:25:43 | prpplague | Morn: hey |
| 02:25:58 | prpplague | Morn: http://www.9xmedia.com/pages-Build_a_system/X-Top_Expert---3_across.html |
| 02:26:02 | prpplague | Morn: check that out |
| 02:26:24 | prpplague | Morn: time to start saving my beer money and selling blood plasma |
| 02:26:56 | Russ|werk | holy crap |
| 02:27:09 | Morn | cool |
| 02:27:11 | Russ|werk | 3840x2400 *per screen* |
| 02:27:28 | prpplague | Russ|werk: ya thats what i said |
| 02:27:46 | prpplague | Russ|werk: say them using X with one of those on SG-1 last week |
| 02:27:49 | Morn | $50k! |
| 02:27:52 | Morn | falls down |
| 02:27:56 | andersee | I wonder what sortof video card could drive that monster |
| 02:28:07 | prpplague | Morn: for the big ones! the standard is just $3k |
| 02:28:41 | Russ|werk | panels should at least be 1600x1200 |
| 02:28:51 | Russ|werk | prpplague: have you looked into the chromium project? |
| 02:29:36 | prpplague | andersee: there are several supported including matrox and nvidia |
| 02:29:51 | Russ|werk | andersee: dvi or analog inputs |
| 02:29:53 | andersee | I think I'd rather buy a projector |
| 02:29:58 | prpplague | andersee: http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/CAVE/linux/multi-head.html |
| 02:30:29 | prpplague | Russ|werk: chromium project? |
| 02:30:36 | prpplague | Russ|werk: sorry no... |
| 02:30:40 | Russ|werk | http://www.9xmedia.com/pages-Build_a_system/X-Top_Expert---5_over_5.html <- why are you short changing yourself |
| 02:31:32 | Russ|werk | http://graphics.stanford.edu/~humper/chromium_documentation/ |
| 02:32:23 | prpplague | Russ|werk: interesting |
| 02:33:05 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i'm not really into graphics arts, but i think it'd be really nice to work on multi head screens for code development |
| 02:34:38 | Russ|werk | the chromium project solves a lot of the problems of doing 3d across multiple heads |
| 02:34:43 | andersee | BZFlag had multiple screens hooked up to his workstation at Lineo (back when I was there -- dunno if he still does) |
| 02:34:48 | Russ|werk | http://dri.sourceforge.net/ |
| 02:35:00 | Russ|werk | er |
| 02:35:02 | Russ|werk | frames |
| 02:35:07 | Russ|werk | http://www.tungstengraphics.com/dri/Traditional_Xinerama.txt |
| 02:37:06 | prpplague | Russ|werk: looks like some cool stuff |
| 02:37:38 | prpplague | andersee: ya i think it would be nice to have several screens open with code and debugging windows |
| 02:37:59 | prpplague | andersee: lol, and pr0n on the others....... |
| 02:39:09 | prpplague | Russ|werk: you see that mizi has started pushing that linuette pda development kit? |
| 02:39:40 | Morn | linuette? |
| 02:39:59 | Russ|werk | didn't notice |
| 02:40:13 | prpplague | Morn: a small dist based around qt/e |
| 02:40:22 | Morn | cool |
| 02:40:27 | Morn | I'll have to check it out |
| 02:40:28 | prpplague | Morn: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6224826378.html |
| 02:40:56 | prpplague | Russ|werk: ya its that kit that i told you about when i was trying to get in contact with CIIT |
| 02:41:38 | prpplague | Russ|werk: from what i could get out of the mizi guy, its suppose to be a re-worked camion |
| 02:42:06 | andersee | prpplague: I looked at their download section, and it was full of x86 .rpms.... |
| 02:43:11 | Russ|werk | goes home |
| 02:43:16 | prpplague | andersee: ya from my limited experience with 5 korean companies not one of them has a clue about linux community |
| 02:43:20 | prpplague | Russ|werk: later |
| 02:45:53 | prpplague | andersee: do you recall if there were any problems with the wget in bb 0.52 ? |
| 02:48:30 | andersee | 0.52? Wow, thats old. I have no idea. Very probable... |
| 02:51:00 | prpplague | andersee: ok thanks, ya i'm working on a rootfs upgrade, but i need to do a wget to get the new upgrade procedure |
| 02:51:20 | andersee | prpplague: I'm sure that version doesn't do ftp. |
| 02:51:33 | andersee | prpplague: It _may_ work for http. |
| 02:52:11 | prpplague | andersee: ya the wget does work for ftp, but i get lots of strange debug messages |
| 02:53:19 | prpplague | andersee: i know you probably hear it often, but bb is just too awesome |
| 02:53:51 | andersee | :) |
| 02:54:51 | prpplague | andersee: thinkgeek needs a shirt thats says "go away or i'll replace you with a busybox function" |
| 02:55:02 | andersee | hehe |
| 02:55:22 | andersee | They do have a "codepoet" t-shirt.. I've got one of those. |
| 02:55:43 | andersee | Fits with my codepoet.org nicely I think. :) |
| 02:56:09 | prpplague | andersee: ya i've seen that one |
| 02:56:58 | prpplague | andersee: at the company i work for we've been having a departmental war between the hardware department(where i work) and software department |
| 02:57:00 | Morn | I have a good argument against maildir |
| 02:57:01 | TomW | Russ: the entropy pool being empty make sense now. I usually connect to the tux via telnet and that is how I tried to install mozilla. That would explain why Chrome was deadlocked. |
| 02:57:31 | prpplague | andersee: we have ordered shirts for all the hardware department that say "its a software problem" |
| 02:58:50 | prpplague | is off to bed |
| 02:59:22 | prpplague | need my rest so that i can explain to the software department why 777 is not acceptable for a data file |
| 03:06:39 | TomW | Morn: 14 hours for mozilla to finsih compiling. |
| 03:07:57 | Morn | TomW: yikes |
| 03:09:16 | TomW | and it crashed & burned when I tried to run it. Well, russ pointed me to where I could get a binary... |
| 03:09:41 | Morn | ack! |
| 03:09:50 | Morn | I just built a new ramdisk out of buildroot |
| 03:10:03 | Morn | I've got errors scrolling by so quickly I can't see them all |
| 03:10:17 | Morn | looks like kernel errors |
| 03:10:33 | Morn | all kinds of stuff about flags and controls |
| 03:10:48 | TomW | *sniff* I'm not too proud to run someone elses' binary *sniff* |
| 03:10:55 | BZFlag | ntropy: not normally. all domestic units without flashunlock shipped today and most of the internationals too. |
| 03:10:58 | TomW | Bwaaaa! |
| 03:11:51 | TomW | Morn: sounds exciting on your end.. |
| 03:12:13 | Morn | Is there a way to see what the params are |
| 03:12:18 | TomW | looks for mozilla binary. |
| 03:12:21 | andersee | BZFlag: sounds like a busy day... |
| 03:12:35 | TomW | ps af |
| 03:12:36 | TomW | ? |
| 03:12:41 | andersee | TomW: debian mozilla binaries work nicely... |
| 03:12:52 | Morn | params for the kernel boot |
| 03:13:11 | TomW | thanks, I tried natively building 1.0.9 on the Tux. |
| 03:14:02 | andersee | Looks like I broke uClibc's ttyname() yesterday when I added locking... Fixing... |
| 03:14:55 | TomW | andersee: is there some way I can point source.list of apt-get to the http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mozilla/ directory tree? |
| 03:15:32 | BZFlag | andersee: yep and more to go tonight. |
| 03:15:40 | TomW | or, I would guess it would have to goto: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool |
| 03:16:44 | andersee | TomW: or you could just grab the .dsc, .tar.gz, and the diff.gz, use dpkg-source to unpack em, than use dpkg-buildpackage to build it... |
| 03:17:03 | andersee | ie do the apt thing by hand... |
| 03:17:31 | TomW | hmmm |
| 03:18:08 | andersee | was doing debian long before apt.... |
| 03:19:09 | TomW | probably something like "deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian pool main contrib non-free" would work. |
| 03:19:51 | Russ | hmm...the sawfish2 packages look nice...but I can't change the font, and it doesn't use gconf2 |
| 03:56:41 | Russ | locates his jtag "cable" |
| 04:06:53 | Russ | reassembles |
| 04:08:43 | Morn | how hard is a jtag to use? |
| 04:08:52 | Morn | I mean if I got one maybe I could help some with the blobs |
| 04:10:46 | Russ | the actual hardware is easy |
| 04:11:04 | Russ | the only reason you need any circuitry at all is to step 5V down to 3.3V levels |
| 04:12:23 | Morn | I see Tim has some for sale |
| 04:12:34 | Morn | But I mean actually using it to put the blob back on |
| 04:12:37 | Morn | is it difficult? |
| 04:16:11 | Russ | no, ./flash < ../blob.sf/src/blob/blob |
| 04:16:17 | Russ | the hardware is easy to make yourself too |
| 04:16:39 | Russ | I suppose I should help tim get rid of his stock though |
| 04:17:37 | Morn | I think after my disability check comes I'll order one |
| 04:18:16 | Morn | I think it takes longer to flash the ramdisk than it does to transfer it |
| 04:18:42 | Russ | uh-oh |
| 04:18:51 | Russ | did you flash more than one thing without reseting? |
| 04:18:55 | Morn | no |
| 04:19:00 | Russ | k, good |
| 04:19:10 | Morn | oh wait |
| 04:19:14 | Russ | maybe this new driver will be faster |
| 04:19:23 | Morn | by reset do you mean reboot? |
| 04:19:25 | Russ | does it say scanning down to 0x100000 everytime |
| 04:19:26 | Russ | ya |
| 04:19:30 | Morn | I just typed reboot in the blob |
| 04:19:38 | Morn | I didn't reset it in the back |
| 04:19:44 | Russ | ya, thats good |
| 04:19:45 | Morn | the ramdisk I just tried can't find init |
| 04:20:27 | Morn | rutroh |
| 04:20:30 | Morn | now it just says |
| 04:20:35 | Morn | Starting kernel ... |
| 04:20:36 | Morn | and stops |
| 04:21:13 | Russ | did it load the kernel ok in blob? |
| 04:21:54 | Russ | "loading kernel from jffs2 ......loaded 0x0008a490 (566416) bytes" |
| 04:21:56 | Morn | something is wrong with the blob now |
| 04:22:10 | Morn | I can hit space and it giveds me a blob> |
| 04:22:14 | Morn | but then it locks up |
| 04:22:27 | Russ | wait until it says "Autoboot (1 seconds) in progress, press any key to stop ." to hit a key |
| 04:22:42 | Morn | ok |
| 04:22:44 | Morn | now that works |
| 04:22:48 | Morn | whewh |
| 04:23:14 | Morn | but it won't boot the image |
| 04:31:17 | Morn | hmmm |
| 04:31:23 | Russ | does it have the "loading kernel from jffs2 .?.....loaded 0x0008a490 (566416) bytes"? |
| 04:31:25 | Morn | an image that I KNOW worked before is borked |
| 04:31:42 | Morn | it just says Starting Kernel ... |
| 04:31:44 | Morn | and stops there |
| 04:31:48 | Russ | maybe you need to power it off and back on, then flash it again :( |
| 04:31:57 | Russ | I'm pounding on the new flash code right now |
| 04:31:58 | Morn | could it be the xmodem thing? |
| 04:32:13 | Morn | I seem to recall the last time I did this I was still uuencoding things |
| 04:32:32 | Morn | oh wait it just booted |
| 04:32:37 | Morn | I hit the reset button |
| 04:32:41 | Morn | makes me wonder |
| 04:33:09 | Russ | k, erasing the whole ramdisk takes about 34s |
| 04:33:42 | Russ | flashing a 3.3M image takes about 16s |
| 04:33:48 | Russ | (new flash code) |
| 04:36:19 | Russ | k, I'm going to commit it |
| 04:45:28 | TomW | this is silly. |
| 04:45:38 | Russ | what is? |
| 04:45:50 | Russ | anyone who has jtag, bang on that commit |
| 04:46:42 | TomW | pool/* has all that I need to build a new system with. But there doesn't appear to be a way to use apt-get against it to point sources.list to them and do an apt-get dist-upgrade, or such. |
| 04:47:04 | TomW | I have dpkg, aptitude, and apt-get. Am I missing some other package tool? |
| 04:47:15 | Russ | ummm...pool is where all files are kept |
| 04:47:17 | andersee | Russ: so no more extra erase step needed? |
| 04:47:37 | Russ | you want to point to indexes? like woody, or sid? (aka, testing, unstable) |
| 04:47:38 | TomW | apt-get uses the dist/* dir. |
| 04:47:45 | Russ | andersee: ya, should be stable no matter what you do to it |
| 04:47:56 | Russ | TomW: what version? |
| 04:48:03 | TomW | no, I want to point to pool, that is where all the most recent stuff is. |
| 04:48:05 | TomW | umm. |
| 04:48:16 | Russ | unstable is where the most recent stuff is |
| 04:48:28 | TomW | 0.3.19 |
| 04:48:32 | TomW | of apt-get |
| 04:48:32 | Russ | *everything* is kept in poos |
| 04:48:34 | Russ | er, pool |
| 04:48:48 | andersee | Ahh, cool. tinylogin lets me login again, now that I fixed ttyname in uClibc. |
| 04:48:48 | Russ | wow thats old |
| 04:48:51 | TomW | maybe with a later apt-get. |
| 04:48:58 | Russ | maybe you want to get a newer apt-get |
| 04:49:02 | andersee | Been broken for two days and I didn't even notice.. |
| 04:49:02 | Russ | but you don't point it to pool |
| 04:49:03 | TomW | yes, I am running base2_2.tgz |
| 04:49:13 | TomW | k |
| 04:49:14 | Russ | TomW: get the woody base instead |
| 04:49:21 | andersee | Russ: very cool, I'll give it a try. |
| 04:49:22 | TomW | for arm? |
| 04:49:31 | BZFlag | Russ: did you find the "more that one keypress causes loss of input" bug? |
| 04:49:42 | Russ | BZFlag: no, thats someone else |
| 04:49:48 | BZFlag | heh |
| 04:49:58 | Russ | and it doesn't have any nasty side effects |
| 04:50:42 | BZFlag | yeah, never causes brickage or loss of data. |
| 04:51:16 | Russ | TomW: look here http://http.us.debian.org/dists/woody/main/binary-i386/ |
| 04:51:23 | Russ | see how there is just the indexes? |
| 04:51:31 | Russ | it used to be where all the files were kept |
| 04:51:36 | TomW | Russ: need ARM don't care about i386. |
| 04:51:44 | Russ | like this: http://http.us.debian.org/dists/potato/main/binary-i386/ |
| 04:51:51 | Russ | I'm showing you the pool/dist thing |
| 04:51:57 | TomW | k |
| 04:52:09 | andersee | Well, now if I could only figure out why modprobe is whining.... |
| 04:52:35 | TomW | looking now |
| 04:52:39 | Russ | http://http.us.debian.org/dists/woody/main/disks-arm/current/ |
| 04:53:07 | Russ | the lart dir might be what you want |
| 04:53:34 | Russ | it has a root.tar.gz and a linux.bin |
| 04:53:42 | TomW | Ok, I'll give it a try. |
| 04:53:44 | Russ | as well as a drivers.tgz |
| 04:54:01 | TomW | Russ: thanks from a Debian Newbie. :-/ |
| 05:21:32 | andersee | Evening CosmicPenguin |
| 05:22:21 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: good evening to you |
| 05:23:17 | CosmicPenguin | is trying to modernize Microwindows/FLNX in the buildroot |
| 05:23:27 | andersee | Cool! |
| 05:24:13 | andersee | FYI -- enable USE_UCLIBC_TOOLCHAIN and you get C++ with uClibc... should help. :) |
| 05:24:43 | Russ | any plans for integrating a c++ lib so building c++ things isn't so complex |
| 05:25:39 | CosmicPenguin | can't remember where alex hid his tree |
| 05:26:53 | andersee | Russ: already done... Just enable USE_UCLIBC_TOOLCHAIN and you will mysteriously find libstdc++.so.4.0.0 sitting in build/stage/lib/ after compiling the toolchain... |
| 05:27:21 | andersee | That was why I added all that messy complexity... |
| 05:28:25 | CosmicPenguin | wisely decides not to start build until I get back onto my T1 at work.. :) |
| 05:29:27 | Russ | andersee: you mean buildroot though |
| 05:29:29 | Russ | not uClibc |
| 05:31:32 | andersee | right. In buildroot I have it build gcc toolchain, which compiles libstdc++ vs uClibc for the target arch (i.e. arm). |
| 05:36:27 | CosmicPenguin | Beautiful 9.15s ping time |
| 05:37:00 | Russ | ping -f CosmicPenguin |
| 05:37:49 | Russ | --- Ping reply from CosmicPenguin : 46.47 second(s) |
| 05:38:20 | andersee | finds a header file bug in uClibc |
| 05:38:27 | CosmicPenguin | Even better |
| 05:47:04 | CosmicPenguin | finishes configuring 2.5.20-djsomethingorother, and gets ready for bed |
| 05:47:23 | CosmicPenguin | I'll play around with this one later, I do believe |
| 05:47:27 | CosmicPenguin | Good night all |
| 05:47:47 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: I'll be watching my mailbox in the morning |
| 06:10:40 | Russ | file: my contact just turned her computer on in portland it seems |
| 07:25:31 | Russ | anyone have any docs on all the SPI stuff? |
| 08:40:47 | Russ--- | freakin' router loops |
| 13:57:05 | file | hello Russ |
| 14:18:35 | CosmicPenguin | morning |
| 14:18:43 | CosmicPenguin | Hey - whats the current stable blob version? |
| 14:25:20 | file | hey prpplague! |
| 14:32:50 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague! |
| 14:32:59 | CosmicPenguin | I thought you were out of town this week |
| 14:37:47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: no next week |
| 14:37:55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: leave monday |
| 14:38:02 | file | crys |
| 14:38:26 | prpplague | needs vacation baaaaaaad |
| 14:46:26 | Torawk|Wk | Hello all, Are the pcmcia slots type I,II, or III? I think I saw Type I somewhere on the site but can't find it again... |
| 14:49:47 | CosmicPenguin | Torawk|Wk: 3.3v, whatever that is in type |
| 14:50:39 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: Well, I wish I could join you, but apparently my boss needs all three of me to be here next week to finish all the projects he has planned....;-) |
| 14:50:52 | Torawk|Wk | well the types are for thinknesses as far as I can tell.. 1 being smallest.. |
| 14:52:31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lol |
| 14:53:06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey what kind of procedure to you guys use for remote update of your stb/tc ? |
| 15:02:11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: basically, we are using a file transfer mechanism that looks and smells like TFTP, but it is modified to fit within our requirements |
| 15:02:46 | CosmicPenguin | (basically, we are only allowed a certain amount of bandwidth for talking to the box, so we need to play a few games) |
| 15:03:18 | CosmicPenguin | We are transfering down a home grown package system that is similar to RPM but it also allows us to delete certain files on the other side. |
| 15:04:35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmmmm |
| 15:04:50 | CosmicPenguin | Eventually, we are going to have to spread the transfer of larger packages out over several hours, so we will have to reserve a bit of memory on each box to accumulate the occasional packet until we have the whole collection |
| 15:05:09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we're just using a shell script that wgets and update script that then gets executed |
| 15:05:44 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: we are working with a minimum of 10,000 units here. Having 10,000 wget requests usually isn't acceptable |
| 15:06:00 | CosmicPenguin | Most of what I was talking about before will be multicast (unless of course, a box misses an update, then it is unicast). |
| 15:06:36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lol, ya we are talking at max for us 200 per store, but we have around 8,000 locations |
| 15:06:51 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: its not the total numbers, its the number of servers per unit |
| 15:07:03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: right, we have a server at each location |
| 15:07:30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: will your update procedure be open source? |
| 15:07:52 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: doubtful - our CEO is very unhappy at the open source community right now |
| 15:09:11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: but I wonder if we can use something similar on the tuxscreen.... ;) |
| 15:10:29 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: btw, I am going to bring over sqlite and FLNX to the tuxscreen here in the next few days |
| 15:12:18 | TomW | good morning all |
| 15:12:26 | CosmicPenguin | TomW: Good morning |
| 15:12:26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: great! |
| 15:12:41 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I've got an idea for a address book / phone dialer that I know I can fit in 4MB |
| 15:12:45 | TomW | prpplague: great morning? |
| 15:13:10 | prpplague | TomW: CosmicPenguin is bringing FLNX and sqlite over to the tux |
| 15:13:24 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: plus, that means I can recompile viewml..... :) |
| 15:13:48 | | TomW: i'm not following you... |
| 15:13:48 | TomW | ibot FLNX |
| 15:13:49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: will the sqlite db file be pretty standard structure? |
| 15:13:55 | | no idea, tomw |
| 15:13:55 | TomW | ibot FLNX? |
| 15:13:59 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yeah |
| 15:14:07 | | OK, CosmicPenguin. |
| 15:14:07 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: FLNX is the Microwindows port of FLTK |
| 15:14:12 | | FLTK is Fast Lightweight Tool Kit and can be found at http://www.fltk.org or <reply> fltk is also available in 2 versions for the ipaq - libfltk1 from official feeds, which is cut-down, or libfltk1-1, the full bells'n'whistles, available from David McNab's feed at http://freenet.org.nz/feeds/mcnab or a cross-platform GUI toolkit |
| 15:14:12 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: FLTK |
| 15:14:13 | | TomW: excuse me? |
| 15:14:13 | TomW | ibot: me niether |
| 15:14:40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: cool, that way i can integrate it into other apps |
| 15:14:50 | TomW | brain is still tired.. |
| 15:14:50 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'll e-mail out the schema when I get it |
| 15:14:57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'd like my forms app to read from an address book |
| 15:15:39 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'll also ask my boss if I can open up my sqlite C++ class.... I'm really happy with it |
| 15:15:55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that'd be nice |
| 15:16:37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: will your address book have a field for contact type? |
| 15:17:13 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: looks interesting: FLNK. |
| 15:17:20 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'm thinking that right now I'll have first name, last name, company, contact type, and several phone numbers |
| 15:17:35 | CosmicPenguin | I really don't need the address, because its a phone... :) |
| 15:17:54 | CosmicPenguin | Maybe e-mail, but that means I would need to get off my ass and write a mail client which is a pain in the ass |
| 15:19:09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: my other planned project is to re-port FLTK 1.0.11 to Microwindows |
| 15:28:00 | TomW | Morn: looks like the 32Meg SODIMM modification is done. |
| 15:39:03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: mind if i make a suggestion? |
| 15:39:17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you should add atleast one custom field |
| 15:39:38 | Morn | TomW: Really? |
| 15:39:46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: in the sqlite db just call it "custom" or something |
| 15:40:33 | TomW | Morn: Ralf posted the message on the mailing list a few minutes ago. You just have to install a new blob. |
| 15:40:57 | Morn | awesome |
| 15:41:03 | Morn | let me find his message |
| 15:41:09 | TomW | Morn: .. and recompile the kernel with the CONFIG_SA1100_SHANNON_32M option. |
| 15:41:59 | TomW | ls |
| 15:42:04 | TomW | :-/ |
| 15:43:20 | Morn | hmmm |
| 15:43:24 | Morn | I didn't seem to get that message |
| 15:46:11 | TomW | Morn: I dcc'ed the message to you. |
| 15:46:18 | Morn | :-) |
| 15:46:20 | Morn | thanks |
| 15:48:19 | TomW | Morn: 32Meg shouldn't be too tiny to do some serious work. |
| 17:44:33 | souslik | hi everybody. |
| 17:44:52 | souslik | I successfully loaded drivers for my PCMCIA ethernet card... |
| 17:45:17 | souslik | however, I don't know how I can bring eth0 up and configure it? |
| 17:45:22 | souslik | do you have an idea? |
| 17:56:01 | Morn | souslik: check /linuxrc |
| 17:56:12 | Morn | there are some lines in there you can uncomment and modify |
| 17:56:14 | souslik | ok I got it with cardmgr -o |
| 17:56:29 | Morn | also you can use /etc/pcmcia/network.opts |
| 18:09:45 | TechGOD | prpplague: PSSSSSSST - It's me file |
| 18:09:48 | TechGOD | prpplague: what's up? |
| 18:10:16 | TechGOD | I'm going home. |
| 18:10:19 | TechGOD | ttyl |
| 19:28:35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you around? |
| 20:29:19 | souslikTux | great, I have my Xchat displayed on my tuxscreen! |
| 20:29:38 | souslikTux | also xmms, gabber and netscaoe are working |
| 20:30:36 | ntropy | souslikTux: nice |
| 20:31:00 | souslikTux | TinyX has just some problems with some fonts |
| 20:32:04 | ntropy | i cant wait until i get mine |
| 20:32:24 | ntropy | did you get yours with the flashlocked still? |
| 20:34:30 | lyakh_home | hi. I've got a module, which I used on SA-1110, which just installs an interrupt handler for OSMR2, say... Doesn't work on tux though... any ideas? |
| 20:34:55 | souslik | ntropy: yes, the flash was locked. |
| 20:48:22 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'm here |
| 21:02:10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: nm, looks like i found the problem |
| 21:02:26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: linux fb doesn't support flashing text ansi escape code |
| 21:12:51 | Russ|werk | prpplague: how sad, no flashing text |
| 21:16:28 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I think that the standard console only supports the bare minimum |
| 21:16:42 | CosmicPenguin | If you really want compatablity, I would fire up an xserver, and run your app withing an xterm or something |
| 21:18:09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: xterm doesn't support it either |
| 21:18:38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as a matter of fact the termcap and terminfo listing for xterm and linux don't include the "mb" control code at all |
| 21:18:57 | CosmicPenguin | doh |
| 21:19:13 | CosmicPenguin | use tinyterm then...... :) |
| 21:19:16 | prpplague | Russ|werk: ya well, when you have a text app and you need to let someone know that an item is the wrong price, flashing text would be nice |
| 21:19:26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lol |
| 21:19:32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: tt run on linux? |
| 21:19:37 | CosmicPenguin | sure |
| 21:19:44 | prpplague | really? |
| 21:21:09 | CosmicPenguin | oops.... not tt, just Term |
| 21:21:10 | CosmicPenguin | Sorry |
| 21:21:29 | CosmicPenguin | But of course you know that, you use SCO |
| 21:22:09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: setting the TERM enviroment variable doesn't change the functionality of your emulation |
| 21:26:12 | Russ|werk | prpplague: suppose use ncurses |
| 21:26:23 | Russ|werk | anyone test out the new flash driver yet? |
| 21:27:43 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i wish i could, but this is a legacy app running on SCO box ssh'd into from a linux thin client |
| 21:30:02 | Russ|werk | I need to get that out as soon as possible |
| 21:50:55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey i got a good one for ya |
| 21:51:40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i spent 2.5 hours today trying to explain to the programming department that having permissions of 777 on a data file was not acceptable |
| 22:03:10 | ntropy | BZFlag: hi there Tim, when do you think that the flashunlock'd screens will mail out? |
| 22:03:11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you had to explain that to the programming department? |
| 22:16:03 | BZFlag | ntropy: I was hoping today, but did not get to it. now I'm hoping for tomorrow. |
| 22:16:35 | ntropy | BZFlag: awesome, i was just hoping you were going to say this week ;) |
| 22:29:50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya, they are used to SCO crap |
| 23:19:42 | Russ|werk | hey Tangent |
| 23:25:14 | Tangent | Russ|werk: Hey.. how're you doing? |
| 23:26:20 | file | hello Russ |
| 23:26:43 | Russ|werk | hey file |
| 23:26:55 | file | is having problems |
| 23:27:33 | Tangent | file: What's up? |
| 23:27:41 | file | my Cybiko is mocking me |
| 23:27:53 | file | it refuses to charge |
| 23:28:37 | Tangent | file: Have you tried hitting it? |
| 23:28:50 | file | yes |
| 23:29:20 | Tangent | file: Hrm... fix one didn't work huh... Is it plugged in? ;) |
| 23:29:26 | file | yes |
| 23:29:32 | Russ|werk | Tangent: what do you know about the tuxscreen ssp bus, do you have docs anywhere? |
| 23:30:08 | Tangent | Russ|werk: I know next to nothing... but I know a man who might |
| 23:30:34 | Russ|werk | k, I'm rewriting that stuff so there isn't all the kernel delays |
| 23:31:06 | Tangent | Russ|werk: Is the ssp bus the one with the atmel on ? |
| 23:31:27 | Russ|werk | right, the amtel and the wheaties |
| 23:32:09 | Russ|werk | er, atmel |
| 23:32:40 | file | has three atmel chips in front of him |
| 23:33:01 | Tangent | Russ|werk: Apparently spacecoaster's your man for that |
| 23:33:12 | Tangent | has only one atmel chip in front of him |
| 23:34:03 | BZFlag | has 30 tuxscreens in fron of him |
| 23:34:27 | Tangent | BZFlag: Videowall :) |
| 23:34:50 | Tangent | or a truly huge desk :) |
| 23:34:59 | Tangent | or you're just down in the basement ;) |
| 23:52:16 | file | twitches |
| 23:52:41 | Tangent | file: You've been doing that a lot lately... maybe less caffine ;) |
| 23:52:51 | file | I've been getting annoyed alot lately |
| 23:53:03 | Tangent | file: Yeah.. computers do that to you |
| 23:53:31 | Tangent | file: I often consider a simpler life... somthing like hitting rocks |
| 23:53:41 | Tangent | sadly it's not in my nature... |
| 23:53:52 | file | uh huh |
| 23:53:57 | jacques | uh uh |
| 23:54:07 | cpenguin_home | or herding sheep |
| 23:54:08 | Tangent | mmmm hmm |
| 23:54:10 | file | is going to bed |
| 23:54:29 | file | bye. |
| 23:54:33 | Tangent | file: Night |
| 23:54:39 | Tangent | jacques: Hi |
| 23:54:55 | jacques | hi Tangent :-) |
| 23:55:06 | jacques | i just got back from vegas |
| 23:55:18 | Tangent | jacques: Need I ask if you had fun? |
| 23:55:24 | Tangent | I expect you did :) |
| 23:56:13 | jacques | Tangent: kinda. it was with my family |
| 23:56:19 | BZFlag | Tangent: yep, basement. should be getting the latest /. orders ready. |
| 23:57:22 | jacques | arg /. still going??? |
| 23:59:29 | Tangent | wants to call someone with sip |