| 00:18:00 | jacques | hi BZFlag |
| 00:24:15 | jacques | hi mallum_ :-) |
| 00:24:20 | jacques | hmg |
| 00:24:28 | mallum | jacques: word up :) |
| 00:25:23 | jacques | mallum: how goes it? |
| 00:25:44 | mallum | jacques: ok, a little tired ... |
| 00:25:44 | jacques | how's matchbox 2 ? :-) |
| 00:25:49 | jacques | me too |
| 00:25:53 | mallum | jacques: still need a job :( |
| 00:26:01 | mallum | jacques: its getting there |
| 00:26:23 | mallum | jacques: a challance to not bulk it out much, keep it fast etc ... |
| 00:26:45 | jacques | mallum: yeah - the 2.x syndrome |
| 00:26:54 | jacques | mallum: ever read the mythical man month? |
| 00:27:08 | mallum | jacques: yeah I got it upstairs |
| 00:27:17 | mallum | jacques: read it a while back |
| 00:27:39 | jacques | well i have to admit I havent read it in forever, but I believe he talks about the version 2 syndrome |
| 00:28:07 | jacques | version 1 does what's needed but has rough edges, and in version 2 there is the tendency to reqrite everything and add a ton of features |
| 00:28:29 | jacques | which have probably been requested during version 1's run |
| 00:29:03 | mallum | Im only at version 0.2 .. this is 0.3 :) but I see exactly what your saying ... |
| 00:29:22 | mallum | jacques: going to this tommorow -> www.gameonweb.com |
| 00:29:26 | jacques | mallum: yeah well it's the new math :-) |
| 00:30:02 | jacques | hmg it's not resolving for me |
| 00:30:08 | mallum | jacques: then this -> http://www.xcom2002.com/ on sunday |
| 00:30:22 | mallum | http://www.gameonweb.co.uk/ - sorry |
| 00:30:42 | mallum | aload of uk handhelds people are meeting at xcom :) |
| 00:31:01 | mallum | Id hoped Id have an early version of mb0.3 to demo ... but alas |
| 00:31:21 | jacques | sounds like great fun |
| 00:31:30 | mallum | jacques: yeah hope so ... |
| 00:33:41 | mallum | how are things with you ? |
| 00:35:33 | jacques | been busy with other things. i guess i am just taking a break from tuxscreen for a while |
| 00:35:52 | jacques | i got discouraged by my toolchain problems and then the buildroot weirdness |
| 00:37:35 | mallum | everything is always in flux :) |
| 00:37:41 | jacques | yeah |
| 00:37:56 | jacques | makes it kinda hard sometimes |
| 00:37:57 | mallum | I do enjoy hassling jg when he comes online |
| 00:38:07 | jacques | damn I keep forgetting i need to talk to him |
| 00:38:12 | | jg was last seen on #handhelds.org 4 hours, 13 minutes and 46 seconds ago, saying: query keithp and ask him.... [Fri Jun 7 21:24:26 2002] |
| 00:38:12 | jacques | ibot: seen jg |
| 00:38:18 | jacques | arg |
| 00:38:25 | jacques | i bet that's what he's going to tell me too |
| 00:38:30 | | keithp was last seen on #handhelds.org 99 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying: is away: I'm not watching [Thu Feb 28 03:49:22 2002] |
| 00:38:30 | jacques | ibot: seen keithp |
| 00:38:40 | mallum | everyone asks him X questions and I think he's thinking 'damn I wrote this stuff 20 years ago, I dont remember' |
| 00:38:52 | jacques | i need to talk to him about the new touchscreen driver |
| 00:39:00 | mallum | jacques: mail him |
| 00:39:03 | jacques | well jg is actively involved in the tinyx still |
| 00:39:20 | mallum | keithp@keithp.com |
| 00:39:20 | jacques | maybe I should check the arm kernel list for posts from him |
| 00:39:26 | mallum | I think kiethp is more the man |
| 00:39:32 | jacques | he was keeping them updated |
| 00:40:39 | mallum | I think jg has been really snowed with all this compaq-hp stuff |
| 00:41:17 | mallum | I need to figure out how tinyX actually handles keysyms etc ... |
| 00:42:51 | mallum | I need to goto bed Im tired and thinking too much ... |
| 00:43:09 | mallum | g'night jaques + have a good weekend |
| 00:57:26 | | tomw was last seen on #tuxscreen 1 days, 14 hours, 49 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: andersee: time for some sleep, later Erik. [Thu Jun 6 11:08:06 2002] |
| 00:57:26 | jacques | ibot: seen tomw |
| 04:29:31 | arima | anyone used the v0.6 stuff ? |
| 05:01:12 | arima | .. guess no . |
| 05:11:48 | jacques | dunno |
| 05:11:58 | jacques | are you having a problem with it? |
| 05:14:00 | arima | well, I'm just wondering where you're supposed to put the jffs image |
| 05:14:14 | arima | I upload it and flash it to 'ramdisk' and blob fails to load the kernel out of it |
| 05:14:34 | arima | I'm wondering if I need to change anything, ptprint shows nothing for a 'partition table' |
| 05:14:49 | jacques | i believe you have to setup some parameters |
| 05:14:53 | jacques | but I do not know how |
| 05:15:04 | arima | the README is fairly sparse :( |
| 05:15:17 | jacques | i seem to remember that important step being left out of the instructions |
| 05:15:33 | jacques | personally I havent upgraded my blob from 2.0.4 yet |
| 05:17:38 | arima | I just upgraded last night and couldn't get it to work. |
| 05:17:54 | arima | might rollback, but I thought it would be nice to have it setup this way |
| 05:22:01 | jacques | it is nice from what I hear - you just need to catch someone on here who knows the magic command |
| 05:22:18 | jacques | bzflag and tomw both know |
| 05:30:07 | jacques | speak of the devil |
| 05:31:11 | jacques | BZFlag: are you really here? |
| 05:40:18 | arima | BZFlag: you alive ? :) |
| 05:40:39 | arima | I have a simple question :\ |
| 05:41:38 | jacques | seems like he might not really be here |
| 05:41:40 | jacques | :-\ |
| 05:41:47 | arima | affirmative. |
| 05:41:57 | arima | is there source to the modified blob anywhere? |
| 05:42:09 | arima | the official 2.0.5-pre2 is not the same |
| 05:46:43 | arima | ah |
| 05:46:45 | arima | it's in cvs |
| 05:48:08 | arima | or not |
| 05:48:11 | arima | this is really REALLY old. |
| 05:49:27 | jacques | which? |
| 05:49:32 | arima | ? |
| 05:49:57 | jacques | what's really old? |
| 05:50:02 | arima | the blob from cvs |
| 05:50:24 | arima | it's blob 1.x something |
| 05:51:49 | jacques | urg |
| 05:52:01 | jacques | maybe that's a really old cvs server |
| 05:52:19 | arima | well |
| 05:52:25 | arima | is there cvs somewhere besides sourceforge? |
| 05:52:43 | jacques | hmm not sure |
| 05:53:51 | arima | ok it looks like it's in the buildroot cvs |
| 05:53:56 | arima | which makes no sense.. but ok |
| 05:54:04 | arima | [just a patch to blob] |
| 05:54:32 | jacques | hmm it's true that you can build blob from the buildroot cvs - I forgot that |
| 05:54:44 | arima | hmmmm |
| 05:55:03 | arima | this patch doesn't cover anything about the kernel loading |
| 05:55:14 | jacques | ive just never been brave enough to flash a blob built by my own toolchain |
| 05:55:21 | arima | looks around |
| 05:55:27 | arima | I wouldn't be either |
| 05:55:35 | arima | but I just want to see what blob is trying to do to figure out my problem |
| 05:55:36 | arima | :) |
| 05:55:56 | jacques | the source is in buildroot - or buildroot knows how to get it |
| 05:58:54 | arima | co -D 20020501 blob |
| 05:58:55 | arima | meeeeeeeeh |
| 06:02:21 | arima | I think I discovered the missing step |
| 06:02:31 | arima | but I shall wait until I try it to be sure |
| 06:07:39 | arima | loading kernel from jffs2 ......loaded 0x0008a490 (566416) bytes |
| 06:07:41 | arima | jawohl |
| 06:07:42 | arima | A(EYFAYEF |
| 06:07:44 | arima | the phone beeped. |
| 06:08:11 | jacques | success? |
| 06:08:14 | arima | yeah |
| 06:08:32 | arima | in the README.blob in the buildroot, it says you need to erase manually the ramdisk and kernel before using new blob |
| 06:08:44 | arima | I did not do that previously as it looked like it was doing that itself |
| 06:10:53 | jacques | so what commands do you need to issue? |
| 06:11:45 | arima | erase kernel |
| 06:11:47 | arima | erase ramdisk |
| 06:11:51 | arima | then xdownload ramdisk |
| 06:11:52 | arima | send it.. |
| 06:11:55 | arima | flash ramdisk |
| 06:11:56 | arima | then reboot ! |
| 06:12:46 | arima | pcmcia appears to be broken |
| 06:12:56 | jacques | ah cool, 'm glad you got it working |
| 06:13:14 | jacques | d'oh I have heard that too - pcmcia NIC? |
| 06:13:16 | arima | loading sa1100_cs causes a unhandled page fault |
| 06:13:19 | arima | yeah |
| 06:13:23 | jacques | grrrr |
| 06:13:25 | arima | but I would think sa1100_cs would load fine |
| 06:13:44 | arima | I should go back to using my own kernel |
| 06:13:46 | jacques | modprobe was broken in busybox |
| 06:13:57 | jacques | maybe that's the problem |
| 06:14:12 | arima | hey it looks like it was |
| 06:14:28 | arima | the only problem now is that one of my slots is 5V and the driver doesn't think so |
| 06:14:30 | arima | [insmod worked fine] |
| 06:14:43 | jacques | but I think I heard andersee saying he had fixed modprobe - maybe it's in cvs |
| 06:15:08 | jacques | what are you using the 5V slot for? |
| 06:15:14 | arima | the NIC |
| 06:15:36 | jacques | ah |
| 06:15:51 | jacques | i love my netgears - 3.3V |
| 06:16:00 | arima | mine's a netgear |
| 06:16:04 | arima | but it's a FA410 |
| 06:16:09 | arima | er |
| 06:16:13 | arima | I think that's right |
| 06:16:27 | arima | yeah 410 |
| 06:16:29 | jacques | that sounds like what I have - FA401 ? |
| 06:16:29 | arima | I got them REALLY cheap |
| 06:16:35 | jacques | how cheap? |
| 06:16:36 | arima | and it was really easy to 5v mod it |
| 06:16:40 | arima | about $5 eac h |
| 06:16:44 | arima | I got 4 of them |
| 06:16:45 | jacques | WOW |
| 06:16:48 | jacques | damn |
| 06:16:58 | jacques | wow |
| 06:17:22 | BZFlag | arima: blob is in blob cvs. not tux cvs. |
| 06:17:32 | arima | BZFlag: i figured that out now :) |
| 06:17:38 | jacques | are you sure they require 5V ? my netgears *say* they are 5V but work great on 3.3V |
| 06:17:42 | arima | yes |
| 06:17:51 | arima | does yours have a dongle or is it the hard connector |
| 06:18:07 | arima | I tried it at 3.3V and it did all means of strange stuff |
| 06:18:12 | arima | the lights didn't look right or anything |
| 06:18:31 | jacques | no dongle on mine |
| 06:18:33 | arima | I did the simplest 5v mod possible [remove a cap and hardconnect it to 5v..] and it works great |
| 06:18:40 | arima | you probably have a FA411 |
| 06:18:50 | arima | in the wiki those are listed as working fine at 3.3 but not this one |
| 06:19:07 | arima | tries to figure out how to make cardmgr stop using modprobe |
| 06:19:08 | jacques | ah that sounds right :-D |
| 06:19:20 | jacques | andersee: wherefore are thou? |
| 06:19:24 | jacques | art |
| 06:19:34 | arima | NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out |
| 06:19:37 | arima | I don't like that. |
| 06:19:44 | jacques | but does it still work? |
| 06:19:58 | arima | amazingly ! |
| 06:20:46 | arima | can buildroot do tinyx ? |
| 06:21:21 | arima | it looks like it .. |
| 06:22:05 | arima | and can tinyx query xdmcp to another host ? |
| 06:23:17 | jacques | not sure about xdmcp, but yes it can build tinyx just fine |
| 06:42:49 | arima | ARGH NO |
| 06:43:03 | arima | is there a way to tell buildroot, hey, I already have a uclibc toolchain ? |
| 06:45:17 | arima | oh well |
| 06:45:25 | arima | machine is fast enough and I have enough disk space so whatever. |
| 06:47:01 | jacques | if you find out please let me know! |
| 06:47:09 | jacques | i dont like rebuilding the toolchain every time |
| 06:47:26 | arima | oh god |
| 06:47:30 | arima | it's going to compile gcc 3.1 |
| 06:47:33 | arima | grrreeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaatttttttt |
| 06:47:34 | jacques | yepper |
| 06:47:39 | arima | this makes no sense |
| 06:47:42 | jacques | ? |
| 06:47:54 | arima | er well |
| 06:47:56 | arima | hmmm |
| 06:48:06 | arima | yeah. |
| 06:48:11 | jacques | 3.1 is not bad |
| 06:48:14 | arima | it compiled the kernel |
| 06:48:17 | arima | using my arm-linux-gcc |
| 06:48:21 | arima | before doing this |
| 06:48:31 | jacques | hmmmm |
| 06:48:36 | arima | that and, why doesn't it use gcc 3.2? |
| 06:49:03 | jacques | you mean cvs? dunno - is it much better? |
| 06:49:13 | arima | I thought 3.2 was out .. |
| 06:49:23 | jacques | give andersee a break - he just updated the toolchain to 3.1 a couple weeks ago :-) |
| 06:49:34 | arima | I guess normally it would build the kernel with its own toolchain |
| 06:49:38 | arima | but I commented out the uclibc stuff |
| 06:49:39 | arima | at first |
| 06:50:02 | arima | GCC_SOURCE:=gcc-3.1.tar.gz |
| 06:50:02 | arima | GCC_DIR:=$(BUILD_DIR)/gcc-3.1 |
| 06:50:07 | arima | just change those 2 and it should work |
| 06:50:10 | arima | if 3.2 is out |
| 06:50:10 | arima | :) |
| 06:50:20 | jacques | lol |
| 06:51:04 | arima | hmmm apparently 3.2 isn't out |
| 06:51:07 | arima | nevermind! |
| 06:51:19 | arima | I was on a solaris machine that had it, so I assumed it was out |
| 06:52:50 | jacques | musta been from cvs |
| 07:14:25 | arima | mmm buildroot doesn't work with the sourceforge new download mirror stuff |
| 09:39:34 | Russ | anyone happen to know chinise? |
| 09:41:45 | dc_ | I wish :} |
| 09:45:38 | Russ | I'll just find sammy and have him go pound on their door |
| 16:27:13 | file | hey prpplague |
| 16:31:01 | prpplague | file: morning |
| 16:33:01 | file | what's up? |
| 16:34:16 | prpplague | ss if=/tmp/fltk.txt of=/proc/prpplague/brain |
| 16:37:44 | file | nods |
| 19:15:00 | lyakh_home | Hi! Got linux running on my tux - cool! Now, questions - tried the tinyx image - it was too big, tried the microwindows one - it couldn't find the mouse - what sort of mouse was it looking for - serial, or? |
| 19:24:58 | Aelhaz | prolly the touchscreen, dunno what to tell you |
| 19:25:16 | Aelhaz | a serial mouse probably won't work on the tux, since the serial port doesn't have controll lines implemented |
| 19:25:35 | lyakh_home | I heard touchscreen was not yet implemented... |
| 19:25:42 | Aelhaz | the touchscreen works great |
| 19:26:00 | lyakh_home | yeah? with what? what gui? |
| 19:26:13 | Aelhaz | the problem is, the upstream kernel people decided to rip out the venerable, functional touchscreen interface in the middle of a stable kernel cycle |
| 19:26:28 | Aelhaz | so the touchscreen code has to be rewritten |
| 19:26:50 | lyakh_home | from 2.4? |
| 19:27:00 | Aelhaz | there are older images, v.4 i think, on the ftp site, that have working microwindows or picogui w/ touchscreen |
| 19:27:02 | Aelhaz | Right |
| 19:27:13 | Aelhaz | like 2.4.16 they decided to change the touchscreen interface |
| 19:27:22 | Aelhaz | calibration, etc, now has to be done outside the kernel |
| 19:27:30 | Aelhaz | there's been no agreed-upon daemon or library |
| 19:30:32 | lyakh_home | version 0.4 has a microwin image, and it didn't come up properly... |
| 19:31:07 | Aelhaz | iirc it needs a couple tweaks to config files |
| 19:31:09 | Aelhaz | nothing major |
| 19:31:18 | Aelhaz | should be fairly clear to an experienced linux user |
| 19:31:31 | Aelhaz | if it quit while booting up, look in /linuxrc |
| 19:31:35 | lyakh_home | v0.6 has a tinyx image, which is greater than 3 MB, so, doesn't fit... |
| 19:32:19 | Aelhaz | the recent stuff depends on the new busybox, which boots the kernel from the filesystem |
| 19:32:31 | Aelhaz | so greater than 3M is what it's supposed to be |
| 19:32:59 | lyakh_home | ok, will have a look, linuxrc comes with the image, so, I expected them to be in sync:-) just tried shortly yesterday, maybe it also depends on the specific 0.4 kernel... |
| 19:33:26 | Aelhaz | yeah, doesn't mean it *works |
| 19:33:36 | Aelhaz | and yes, it does |
| 19:33:41 | Aelhaz | and it won't work with the new busybox |
| 19:33:52 | Aelhaz | the 0.4 kernel has the oldstyle touchscreen code |
| 19:34:54 | lyakh_home | yep, I see, will try again then, not that I needed it that much though:-) and what filesystem do you mean for 0.6? on a pcmcia-ide? |
| 19:35:24 | Aelhaz | i mean jffs2 in flash |
| 19:37:00 | Aelhaz | there's 4m of flash, right |
| 19:37:16 | Aelhaz | in 0.4 and before that, busybox and the kernel use the first 1m |
| 19:37:19 | Aelhaz | the other 3m is jffs2 |
| 19:37:27 | Aelhaz | jounalling flash filesystem |
| 19:37:31 | lyakh_home | right, and that one only has 3MB for the ramdisk, or maybe I again was trying the wrong kernel / blob:-) |
| 19:37:31 | Aelhaz | it's compressed |
| 19:37:44 | Aelhaz | the new blob is capable of reading jffs2 |
| 19:38:00 | Aelhaz | so the new blob uses 128k or something, and then the rest of the flash is jffs2 |
| 19:38:52 | Aelhaz | this is Good, because it means you can modularize the living daylights out of the kernel and delete the modules you're not using |
| 19:39:09 | Aelhaz | before, since we had almost a meg of space for a compressed kernel, we had the kernel full of drivers |
| 19:40:13 | lyakh_home | wait, the flash (mtd) partitions are hard-coded in the kernel drivers/mtd/maps/sa1100-flash.c |
| 19:42:24 | lyakh_home | you mean, now you don't give the blob kernel and ramdisk separately, but just one image? |
| 19:42:37 | Aelhaz | Correct |
| 19:42:53 | Aelhaz | and they're hard-coded in both the blob and the kernel |
| 19:43:30 | lyakh_home | yep. should be, and they should agree:-) and what's the command? download ramdisk? |
| 19:43:36 | Aelhaz | I guess |
| 19:43:40 | Aelhaz | I haven't used the new stuff |
| 19:44:44 | lyakh_home | should be fun to try:-) btw, do you know why you have to uuencode images? blob (normally) can also do xmodem... |
| 19:45:45 | Aelhaz | because the xmodem code in the blob versions they've been using has been somewhat poor |
| 19:45:49 | Aelhaz | so they left it out |
| 19:46:40 | Aelhaz | the new blob i think can do some other transfer protocol, ymodem or something |
| 19:47:20 | Aelhaz | like i said, haven't used it |
| 19:47:37 | Aelhaz | didn't like the idea of a new blob when it came out, at least, not until a bunch of other people had tested it |
| 19:48:00 | lyakh_home | what was the idea you didn't like? |
| 19:48:46 | Aelhaz | oh, you know, brand new important chunks of code |
| 19:48:56 | Aelhaz | I sold my jtag dongle to someone months ago |
| 19:52:52 | lyakh_home | aha, ok, thanks. another thing - after a fast try, the buildroot package(s), the kernel I compiled with the provided patch and .config couldn't mount rootfs - one of the standard images... would it only work with the also freshly-compiled image?... |
| 19:53:14 | Aelhaz | dunno, there may have been recent changes |
| 19:53:34 | Aelhaz | about a month ago, tim was telling people not to try to compile their own blob, that may or may not still be the case, fwiw |
| 19:54:57 | lyakh_home | yeah, at least you should watch its size:-) unless you have a jtag interface |
| 19:58:01 | Aelhaz | I've got, other worries these days |
| 19:58:35 | Aelhaz | so I'm not going to screw around much with my tux until there's either tiny-x with working touchscreen or either picogui or microwindows with an actual app to drive the telephony gear |
| 20:00:00 | lyakh_home | :-) see. I need it for other purposes, in fact, I should least of all care about guis, telephony, etc:-) |
| 20:01:01 | lyakh_home | a serial console is quite enough for me, all the rest - pleasant but strictly speaking superfluous |
| 20:02:11 | lyakh_home | ok, thanks again, laters |
| 20:18:01 | TomW | Aelhaz: ?? jacques and I had tinyx working *with* touchscreen as well, it is now broken? |
| 21:03:38 | andersee | BZFlag: got a sec? |
| 21:03:38 | Russ | afternoon andersee |
| 21:03:44 | andersee | afternoon |
| 21:04:15 | andersee | Russ: Did the dlopen change fix iptables for you? |
| 21:07:57 | Russ | don't know yet, haven't tested |
| 21:08:26 | andersee | k |
| 21:50:15 | lyakh_home | hi, guess what - it seems to have died. |
| 21:51:59 | lyakh_home | I was just flashing different versions of blob (no, not >32k one), kernel, ramdisk - and then it died. |
| 21:56:24 | lyakh_home | only jtag now? |
| 21:56:36 | lyakh_home | why could this have happened? |
| 21:59:06 | prpplague | lyakh_home: you kill a chicken and sprinkle eye of newt on the keyboard? |
| 21:59:43 | lyakh_home | uhm, thanks, might help:-) |
| 22:00:41 | lyakh_home | I mean - have there been similar cases before? everybody seems to be happy reflashing stuff. Once the first step is done - unprotecting, first install... |
| 22:01:54 | lyakh_home | I mean, I had linux running fine. Then I went to v0.6 - it worked, sortof, tinyx worked, except there was an oops, seemed to have been looking for a NIC |
| 22:02:24 | lyakh_home | Then I tried another image from 0.6 - it just gave a continuous column of register dumps... |
| 22:02:51 | lyakh_home | Then I relfashed the old (0.4) blob, went fine, prompt, etc. |
| 22:03:12 | lyakh_home | then download kernel (0.5), flash kernel, and that was it |
| 22:09:10 | andersee | bummer |
| 22:09:40 | andersee | As I recall, when I upgraded from the old blob to the current one, I also ended up needing to use JTAG... |
| 22:09:51 | andersee | I figured I'd messed something up. |
| 22:09:54 | andersee | Perhaps not. |
| 22:10:36 | Russ | lyakh_home: only flash one at a time, power cycle between flashing |
| 22:11:11 | lyakh_home | Russ: ohh, thanks... should've known before... |
| 22:12:27 | lyakh_home | ok, now, we've got a j-tag dongle at work, I am looking at the jtag-page on wiki, so, looks like I have to solder the connector, but also - it's not just the standard dongle, have to do something with it?... |
| 22:16:11 | lyakh_home | what does it mean: "connector on 1.5 phones"? |
| 22:23:17 | Russ | where are you looking? |
| 22:23:32 | lyakh_home | http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/JTAG |
| 22:23:49 | lyakh_home | under the wiring table |
| 22:24:53 | lyakh_home | oh, does it mean "1 such connector is enough for 1 and a half phones"?...:-) ok, the remaining half I might not need:-) |
| 22:25:55 | lyakh_home | ok, looks like will have to do some more soldering:-( |
| 22:27:57 | lyakh_home | ok, thanks, cheers |