| 01:31:29 | dogdog | Wow, slow nite. Anyone want to advise with a Microwindows issue?? |
| 01:31:58 | bhima | I want to, but I don't know anything about it, so I can't. sorry :) |
| 01:35:49 | dogdog | Thanks,bhima my real concern is that I cannot get a stable Microwindows environment flashed on the TUX |
| 01:36:08 | bhima | what happens when you flash it? |
| 01:36:22 | dogdog | .. Sorry. let me explain |
| 01:36:56 | dogdog | I have flashed both the MW v1.0 and 2.0 and both hang on boot |
| 01:37:14 | bhima | tried tinyx? |
| 01:37:26 | dogdog | I have also tried PicoGUI and it works fine. |
| 01:38:02 | dogdog | My root question is this.. |
| 01:38:19 | dogdog | Yes tinyx works.. |
| 01:39:25 | dogdog | Is MW stable enough to develope on, or should I use PicoGui |
| 01:39:50 | dogdog | I flashed PicoGUI and it booted cleanly! |
| 01:41:19 | dogdog | I'm really on the fence regarding which would be the better choice? Any idea's? |
| 01:43:28 | dogdog | <- Sipping a stout.. long day at work ;-) |
| 01:46:48 | dogdog | v1 of MW hangs at screen calibration, and v2 hangs at UCB1200 init |
| 01:47:28 | dogdog | ... but MW may be robust for gaming |
| 01:49:08 | dogdog | SO.. as you can see I'm showing my Linux ignorance.. I'm quite new to embedded Linux.. comming |
| 01:49:27 | dogdog | from embedded 8051/C161 and PIC background. |
| 01:51:47 | dogdog | So I'm looking for a stable GUI that can provide a... |
| 01:51:50 | dogdog | 1. PIM |
| 01:51:56 | dogdog | 2. Play a game |
| 01:53:13 | dogdog | 3. Not be bloatware |
| 02:38:06 | jacques | how do ppl do it |
| 02:38:24 | jacques | how do ppl download the 900MB of iso files for redhat 7.3 |
| 02:38:39 | jacques | i cant find a decent mirror |
| 02:38:55 | jacques | one actually told me that I had to wait since there were already 4 ppl logged on |
| 02:39:13 | jacques | if you cant handle more than 4 ppl, you shuld not be publishing a redhat mirror |
| 02:41:38 | jacques | most of the others are not even letting me connect or giving me 10kB/s |
| 02:41:46 | jacques | which will take too long to get 900MB |
| 03:51:46 | | CosmicPenguin was last seen on #tuxscreen 6 hours, 59 minutes and 43 seconds ago, saying: prpplague: dual nics for a home router, right? [Mon Jun 3 21:52:03 2002] |
| 03:51:46 | prpplague | ibot: seen CosmicPenguin |
| 04:21:38 | prpplague | BZFlag: ! |
| 04:22:07 | prpplague | BZFlag: cto job driving you nuts yet? |
| 04:22:45 | BZFlag | yep. ;-) |
| 04:24:02 | BZFlag | trying to get over things like central cvs, wiki setup etc and on to world changing issues like releaseing a "free for non-commercial use" version of the Lineo SDK, and working better with open source projects (well, propriatary ones too...) |
| 04:27:54 | prpplague | BZFlag: hmm, central cvs, shall i send you a box of excedrin? |
| 04:33:36 | BZFlag | heh. you can't speak japanese can you? ;-) |
| 04:35:29 | Sammy | BZFlag: O hi Yo :) |
| 04:36:22 | prpplague | BZFlag: no but i'm learning mandarin |
| 04:36:32 | prpplague | Sammy: knee how |
| 04:57:18 | TomW | jacques: conquer the RPM yet? |
| 05:34:35 | BZFlag | knee how ma? |
| 05:35:17 | BZFlag | tar the sources and put it in SOURCES copy the spec file to SPECS/bzflag.spec and run rpm -ba bzflag.spec |
| 06:47:38 | andersee | evening all |
| 06:47:41 | andersee | err. |
| 06:47:42 | andersee | morning |
| 12:55:56 | andersee | sjhill: morning |
| 12:56:18 | sjhill | andersee: good morning |
| 12:56:28 | sjhill | andersee: how are things? how's the new little one? |
| 12:58:03 | andersee | doing fine. Sleeping in her little basket here in my office. |
| 12:58:43 | sjhill | hehe |
| 12:59:29 | sjhill | i just compiled gdbserver against uclibc DYNAMICALLY for mips and remotely debugged an application over ethernet on my target mips board....way cool |
| 12:59:46 | sjhill | gdbserver is only 38KB!!! |
| 13:00:38 | andersee | cool indeed. Have to do anything special to make it compile? |
| 13:00:57 | andersee | I added gdb to buildroot recently, but didn't compile up gdbserver. |
| 13:01:13 | sjhill | unfortunately i had to compile gdbserver native on my mips platform |
| 13:01:19 | andersee | In fact, I'm ashamed to admit I've never used gdbserver... |
| 13:01:24 | andersee | Wouldn |
| 13:01:31 | andersee | Wouldnt cross compile? |
| 13:01:34 | sjhill | you really should try it, it's way cool |
| 13:01:35 | sjhill | no |
| 13:01:50 | sjhill | the README file even says you can't do it very handily |
| 13:01:59 | andersee | interesting. |
| 13:02:07 | sjhill | i'm going to try again though...got a new idea |
| 13:02:51 | andersee | still needs to get a working 2.4.x kernel on his mips box |
| 13:05:49 | sjhill | hehe...cool....i was able to cross-compile gdbserver for mips |
| 13:05:54 | andersee | Guess I'll update my mips kernel tree and try again |
| 13:06:20 | sjhill | had to set the PATH=/usr/mipsel-linux-uclibc/bin:$PATH |
| 13:06:24 | andersee | Excellent! |
| 13:06:38 | andersee | Much different from http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/tuxscreen/buildroot-tux/make/gdb.mk?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup |
| 13:06:42 | andersee | ? |
| 13:07:23 | sjhill | 'sec |
| 13:08:37 | sjhill | hmmm, i didn't do it that way, let me try that |
| 13:09:39 | sjhill | there's a missing header file in the uclibc development environment |
| 13:09:46 | sjhill | lemme' see |
| 13:10:09 | andersee | Whats missing? |
| 13:10:20 | andersee | inquiring minds want to know... |
| 13:10:23 | sjhill | a file called 'reg.h' that gdbserver wants |
| 13:10:51 | sjhill | the file for mips is actually called 'regdef.h' |
| 13:10:58 | sjhill | great...more inconsistencies |
| 13:13:44 | sjhill | digs deeper |
| 13:16:34 | sjhill | andersee: i'll have a patch shortly |
| 13:16:50 | sjhill | andersee: looks like it will be a patch to one of the install target rules |
| 13:22:48 | andersee | k |
| 13:49:32 | andersee | brb -- rebooting to shuffle hard drives |
| 14:05:55 | Suran | hi |
| 14:07:17 | sjhill | 'ello |
| 14:11:33 | CosmicPenguin | hates it when he doesn't do an /away at night |
| 14:11:53 | Suran | Do you know what would happen to a tuxscren if the blask IR-decoder broke off? |
| 14:11:59 | Suran | Should it still boot? |
| 14:18:53 | Suran | hello? Any inteligent life out there? |
| 14:20:01 | CosmicPenguin | no intelligent life here |
| 14:23:43 | Suran | I just found out that on by bricked tuxscreen BnReset and BReset_out on the cpu<->ioboard conenctor are high(3.4V). Does that mean a continous reset and thus a possible cause of my problem or are they active-low? |
| 14:32:44 | Suran | They go to a Phillips 74LCV244AD octal buffer/line driver but I cannot find that in the schematics. |
| 14:36:36 | Suran | got it, PcmCTL.pdf . I guess they connect to pins 192 and 206 on the SA1100 . |
| 14:39:44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey dude |
| 14:40:14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: spent sometime last night learn to do the class stuff through fluid |
| 14:42:08 | file | hello all! |
| 14:43:02 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: cool.... I've never used fluid personally, but then again, I'm all anal about IDEs |
| 14:43:39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'll send you a copy of the example code, i think its quite fun, lol |
| 14:47:37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya thanks for the help, i still owe you a steak and beer |
| 14:48:10 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: Not a problem - you never know when I might need help |
| 14:50:08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: my ultimate goal is to create a GUI for creating custom data collection forms on portable devices |
| 14:50:30 | CosmicPenguin | That sounds like a good idea.... |
| 14:51:04 | file | #include "food.h" |
| 14:56:25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: big money on my end of things |
| 14:56:36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: everyone wants custom forms |
| 14:59:28 | sjhill | hacks on uclibc some more so gdbserver builds |
| 15:04:44 | prpplague | quick shutdown to add a dat drive |
| 15:19:48 | Suran | It seems I have awakened my tuxscreen from the dead!!!!! The black IR-thing was broken off ans I soldered it on again. Presumably the board would not boot up w/o it even as it should only be a small device on on of the serial-ports!!! |
| 15:20:29 | file | omg |
| 15:20:30 | file | amazing |
| 15:21:10 | Suran | Not even Jtag works w/o theat thing. |
| 15:26:10 | file | jumps for joy |
| 15:37:11 | file | prpplague : giess what, er guess |
| 15:37:44 | file | bbl - dinner |
| 15:54:22 | Aelhaz | mornin andersee |
| 15:54:39 | andersee | morning |
| 15:54:47 | andersee | hows life treating you? |
| 15:55:44 | Aelhaz | eh, I've seen worse days |
| 15:55:46 | Aelhaz | you? |
| 15:57:02 | andersee | not bad |
| 15:57:38 | Aelhaz | I'm getting tired of the whole "no job" thing |
| 15:57:54 | | fontenot was last seen on #tuxscreen 21 hours, 6 minutes and 54 seconds ago, saying: bhima: how did you make the lcd case thicker? [Mon Jun 3 19:51:00 2002] |
| 15:57:54 | TomW | ibot, seen fontenot? |
| 15:58:13 | TomW | andersee: Hello! |
| 15:59:18 | andersee | TomW: moring |
| 15:59:23 | andersee | err. |
| 15:59:25 | andersee | morning |
| 15:59:37 | andersee | Life treating you well? |
| 15:59:38 | TomW | heh, I am still working on morning as well. |
| 15:59:52 | andersee | Hows the hard drive project? |
| 16:00:07 | TomW | yeah, got a nice job lined up where we are proposing 77 linux based machines to do the thing with! |
| 16:00:48 | andersee | Sounds like fun. |
| 16:01:17 | andersee | Why don't you make a beowolf cluster of em? ;-) |
| 16:01:34 | TomW | hard drive is completed. 1.67MB/s is all we are ever going to get out of that port. Problem is that with the 8 bit interface you cannot implement DMA to get higher throughput. So we are stuck in PIO mode 0. |
| 16:02:04 | TomW | machinces will be scattered all around a DVD manufacturing facility. |
| 16:02:13 | andersee | nice |
| 16:03:00 | TomW | They will interface to the PLC computers that are manufacturing the DVDs, collecting prodcution QA data, then pushing it up into an Oracle database for QA reports. |
| 16:03:06 | andersee | In a past job, I made a machine that was sorting hard drive heads at seagate for several years |
| 16:03:25 | Aelhaz | TomW: can't even do pio 2? |
| 16:03:26 | Aelhaz | or 1? |
| 16:03:41 | TomW | nice feeling ain't it? To have something you built running for years? |
| 16:03:44 | Aelhaz | pio 4 is rather fast, just hammers daylights out of the CPU |
| 16:04:44 | TomW | Aelhaz: The limitation is that the ARM crocessor running in a PIO mode to the drive cannot execute instructions fast enough to drain data from the drive at a rate higher than PIO mode 0. |
| 16:04:57 | Aelhaz | has a 40x pio4 cdrom drive sitting next to him that can read the whole disc in about 2 minutes |
| 16:04:58 | TomW | Aelhaz: at least AFAICT |
| 16:05:11 | Aelhaz | TomW: *nod* |
| 16:06:01 | sjhill | andersee: i just checked in a bunch of new stuff...please have a look |
| 16:06:28 | TomW | Aelhaz: the driver code insists that the only mode the drive can do is PIO mode 0. I don't know how to "speak" to the drive to tell it that it is to go inot PIO mode 2. Mode 2 would be the only one I could use as it reduces the select time to < 240ns on the IDE interface. |
| 16:07:35 | TomW | Aelhaz: we only have one GPIO line to the drive, it is currently being used as the Interrupt. To implement PIO modes 3 / 4, we need another GPIO line free to watch the Ready line. The Tux has only GPIO line 23 available. |
| 16:08:03 | TomW | Aelhaz: do you know how to "speak IDE" to tell the drive to use PIO mode 2? |
| 16:08:52 | TomW | andersee: I need help with gcc-uClibc. I understand most of what you are doing there, but the linker is having absolute fits. |
| 16:09:30 | Aelhaz | TomW: For changing modes, I mostly use hdparm |
| 16:09:36 | TomW | andersee: the arm-linux-ld insists on going into it's own set of libraries (/usr/local/arm/2.93/...) to look for libc. |
| 16:09:49 | Aelhaz | TomW: but some of the pci ide drivers - the piix4 driver for instance - recently have "tuning" support |
| 16:10:01 | TomW | Aelhaz: tried that, hdparm insists that no mode changes are possible. |
| 16:10:05 | Aelhaz | TomW: Hmm |
| 16:10:08 | Aelhaz | *shrug* |
| 16:11:55 | TomW | Aelhaz: well, it works very nicely as it is. Problems I need to overcome right now is to be able to build target code on the workstation for the debian-arm system (cross compile). Debian uses a 2.2 kernel and Tux is 2.4. I tried to build the rierserfs tools on the debian-Tux but the tools fail to run properly. |
| 16:12:53 | Aelhaz | 1.67MB/s is still faster than the ide interface in my dec multia |
| 16:12:58 | TomW | Aelhaz: I finally gave up, built a 2.54mm to 2mm adapter, then implemented the rieser volumes on the workstation. |
| 16:13:00 | Aelhaz | oughta sell the dumb thing |
| 16:13:37 | Aelhaz | TomW: you built one? they're quite cheap, I paid $3 for the last one i bought |
| 16:13:49 | Aelhaz | (plus shipping) |
| 16:14:03 | TomW | Aelhaz: it was more "I need it now" type of deal.. |
| 16:14:07 | Aelhaz | TomW: *nod* |
| 16:14:20 | Aelhaz | so reiserfs is stable on arm? that's nice to know |
| 16:15:37 | Aelhaz | an ide interface board with a CF socket on it would save me a pcmcia slot |
| 16:16:01 | TomW | Seems to be, I am not confident of it. One time I dropped power and it had fits about the filesystem, but I think that was due to my defining partitions in the Flash kernel as ext2, once I named them rieser partitions, then all went well. |
| 16:16:05 | andersee | sjhill: k, will do... |
| 16:16:49 | andersee | TomW: Hmm. |
| 16:17:03 | TomW | Aelhaz: what was cool was backing up my harddrive in the Tux via rsh to the workstation tape drive. |
| 16:17:06 | andersee | TomW: I've not actually tried building in /usr/local |
| 16:17:14 | andersee | TomW: Guess I can take a look |
| 16:17:27 | TomW | andersee: I can stop it by using -nodefaultlibs, but you don't do that yourself, right? |
| 16:17:47 | andersee | TomW: I need to make some updates to the gcc building scripts anyway... |
| 16:18:05 | andersee | TomW: Cross-compiling or targeting x86? |
| 16:18:19 | TomW | andersee: the arm-linux-ld that you are doing is nothing more than a "directive" of how the linking process is generally to look for libs? |
| 16:18:29 | TomW | andersee: cross |
| 16:18:44 | TomW | andersee: arm-V4 |
| 16:19:32 | andersee | TomW: k. And by gcc -- is this the wrapper built by uClibc or the full uClibc toolchain we are talking about? |
| 16:19:53 | TomW | andersee: I looked really close at what parms you are passing, say busybox, by using the -v switch on the gcc. I am passing the same parms to gcc as you are, but the linker is going nuts. |
| 16:20:43 | TomW | andersee: I am attempting to use the gcc wrapper around the debian libc6 and includes. The same structure as you use: stage/ etc. |
| 16:21:12 | TomW | andersee: what I don't do, is to have uClibc/lib and uClibc/includes dirs. |
| 16:22:10 | fontenot | hi lo |
| 16:22:15 | TomW | andersee: I presumed that the wrapper would cause referencing into the stage dir to look for includes (it does) and use stage for the search path in linking (it doesn't). |
| 16:22:39 | TomW | fontenot: get your RPM monster slain? |
| 16:22:50 | fontenot | TomW: not yet - I got sidetracked at work |
| 16:23:44 | TomW | fontenot: I have some older stuff that I used to package up some uClinux tools / development sources. I'll drag that out later, I had a very simple RPM spec for one of them. |
| 16:25:12 | fontenot | TomW: you are so right about the redhat rpm "howto" - it sucks |
| 16:25:35 | fontenot | i guess they want you to buy the o'reilly book |
| 16:25:44 | andersee | TomW: So you too the uClibc wrapper and hacked it? |
| 16:25:59 | TomW | andersee: Maybe by answering me this, I can have enough insight to attack this linking problem again: Just what purpose does having a set of libraries in the toolchain tree have? These are at: /usr/local/arm/2.95.3/arm-linux/lib |
| 16:26:48 | TomW | andersee: yes, the uClibc wrapper hacked to my situation: compiling & linking against debian. |
| 16:27:20 | sjhill | andersee: with those changes, i can easily cross-compile gdbserver against uclibc |
| 16:27:22 | TomW | andersee: It seems that I can turn off the linker search path with -nodefaultlibs, but I cannot specify the linker search path. |
| 16:27:33 | andersee | TomW: Have you also created an ld wrapper, per what I do? |
| 16:27:50 | andersee | i.e. |
| 16:27:52 | andersee | #!/bin/sh |
| 16:27:52 | andersee | # This file was autogenerated by make |
| 16:27:52 | andersee | /usr/bin/ld $@ -L/usr/i386-linux-uclibc/usr/lib -L/usr/i386-linux-uclibc/lib -L/home/andersen/CVS/uClibc |
| 16:29:17 | TomW | andersee: Yes, I used yours. I didn't see any need to change much with gcc / ld wrappers as I had planned to simply populate the contents of the stage/ directory with my debian stuff and replace what you put there. |
| 16:30:10 | TomW | andersee: another curious thing: you use a crt0.o to link against and have a crti.o & crtn.o, that works for you? |
| 16:30:47 | TomW | andersee: debian uses a crt1.o (in addition to crti.o & crtn.o), but the linker refuses to find crtn.o & crti.o. |
| 16:31:22 | TomW | andersee: I changed the references withing the gcc wrapper from crt0 to crt1. |
| 16:31:49 | TomW | andersee: worked over the Config/Config.arm to use that instead of Config.arm.uclinux. |
| 16:31:59 | andersee | TomW: crt0 vs crt1 etc is not Debian related, but uClibc vs glibc behavior. |
| 16:32:09 | TomW | rigth. |
| 16:33:22 | andersee | TomW: Also in the wrapper, I have some checks for strstr(application_name, "g++") etc... |
| 16:34:00 | andersee | TomW: You will want to axe that bit, and hard code ctor_dtor = 1; cplusplus = 1; |
| 16:34:44 | andersee | Hmm. |
| 16:34:48 | andersee | Changed my mind. |
| 16:34:55 | TomW | right. |
| 16:34:55 | TomW | andersee: as I understand it: crt0 is statically linked code and a crt1 would be used for dynamically linked code.. |
| 16:34:55 | TomW | andersee: I am not asking that you "fix" this for me, maybe give me a "push" in the right direction? |
| 16:35:22 | andersee | Leave the g++ code, but always set ctor_dtor = 1; |
| 16:35:41 | andersee | Otherwise glibc wont work... |
| 16:35:46 | TomW | what does the ctor_dtor do? |
| 16:36:12 | andersee | since otherwise crti.o and crtn.o will not be linked in, so constructors won't work. |
| 16:37:02 | TomW | AHH, ctor_dtor controls where to look for crti, got it. |
| 16:37:47 | TomW | let me ask you this: does the arm-linux-ld script dictate the linker search path? |
| 16:38:10 | TomW | as in: /usr/local/arm/2.95.3/bin/arm-linux-ld $@ -L/OldOS/debian/debian-tux/build/stage/usr/lib -L/OldOS/debian/debian-tux/build/stage/lib -L/OldOS/debian/debian-tux/build/virtual-gcc |
| 16:38:42 | andersee | TomW: yup |
| 16:39:42 | TomW | andersee: I cannot figure out what that script means. maybe that I have the toolchain library path listed before the $@ has something to do with it using the toolchain libs instead of mine? |
| 16:40:22 | TomW | andersee: reading "info ld" was worthless on this one! |
| 16:44:17 | TomW | andersee: Ok, ctor_dtor took care of the crti & crtn stuff, thanks. |
| 16:45:06 | TomW | andersee: you go back to what you where messing with and I will continue on the linker search path prob. If you think of anything else later, I would appreciate a heads-up, ok? |
| 16:45:24 | TomW | s/where/were/ |
| 16:47:11 | TomW | andersee: one think that I haven't tried is to place the debian stuff under uClibc/libs or uClibc/include, there may be something that is trying there first, failing, then falling back to default libs within the arm-linux-gcc toolchain |
| 17:02:35 | TomW | andersee: thanks Erik. |
| 17:02:50 | TomW | fontenot: "wanna build an rpm, sonny?" |
| 17:03:36 | TomW | fontenot: it is really very easy... |
| 17:21:08 | fontenot | TomW: thanks, but first I need to run a couple of errands and drive into work :-) |
| 17:21:33 | TomW | fontenot: no problem, I am writing a HOWTO. |
| 17:22:02 | TomW | fontenot: I need this as well. I have the rpm stuff, but I tend to forget important stuff, so the HOWTO. |
| 17:22:57 | fontenot | TomW: wow, nice! |
| 17:23:22 | fontenot | ok heading out now, be on an a little while from work |
| 17:29:18 | prpplague | is there a default root password for the tux buildroot? |
| 17:30:00 | Aelhaz | nope |
| 17:30:39 | prpplague | Aelhaz: just boot to single user and do a passwd? |
| 17:30:50 | Aelhaz | I mean there's no password |
| 17:30:55 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:30:56 | Aelhaz | if you log in as root it won't even ask |
| 17:31:14 | Aelhaz | last several times i built, at least |
| 17:31:32 | prpplague | hmm, i must be doing something wrong then, its asking for a passwd |
| 17:31:37 | Aelhaz | curious |
| 17:34:56 | prpplague | Aelhaz: doh, using the wrong rootfs |
| 18:06:20 | mallum | hi |
| 18:31:52 | Pieciol | elou |
| 19:00:41 | Russ|werk | afternoon |
| 19:12:52 | TomW | jacques: ready? |
| 19:13:13 | jacques | TomW: sure |
| 19:14:12 | TomW | you're all set now? Bag of chips, pot of tea / gallon of beer, etc.? |
| 19:14:17 | TomW | heh |
| 19:14:29 | jacques | TomW: well not that comfortable - at work where anything can happen at any time |
| 19:15:07 | TomW | I said that the rpms were simple, but they can be a bitch to build the spec file for. I have a HOWTO that outlines the process with a specific example. |
| 19:15:20 | jacques | cool |
| 19:15:25 | jacques | yeah, the spec file is the hard part |
| 19:16:01 | TomW | jacques: let me package it into a pdf and stick it on my website. If you go ahead an try it out, I'll be here for an hour, or so, to make any needed corrections to it. |
| 19:16:21 | TomW | packaging |
| 19:16:44 | jacques | TomW: thanks, that sounds ideal |
| 19:23:54 | TomW | jacques: http://www.openhardware.net/misc/ |
| 19:25:37 | jacques | TomW: thanks, reading it now |
| 19:26:16 | TomW | jacques: pour yourself a tall, cold one. This will take some time... |
| 19:27:28 | jacques | TomW: heh, well I have a can of Arizona Iced Tea |
| 19:28:14 | TomW | jacques: so do I, iced tea, made it two hours ago and never drank it.. |
| 19:28:40 | TomW | it was hot tea. |
| 19:29:09 | jacques | llo |
| 19:29:11 | jacques | lol |
| 19:35:09 | TomW | jacques: change "simple-rpm.spec" to "my-dir-tree.spec". |
| 19:36:04 | TomW | I am proof reading the doc again. |
| 19:40:07 | ylekyot | can anyone tell me where I can get the patch-2.4.18-rmk2-tux.bz2? can't get to russ.dhs.org right now. |
| 19:40:43 | TomW | yes, I put it on my site. The latest CVS has the corrected makefile. |
| 19:44:27 | Russ|werk | I wonder if I called cox if they would unblock port 80 for me |
| 19:44:31 | Russ|werk | its really annoying- |
| 19:44:41 | ylekyot | Ah, might help if I updated my buildroot... =) |
| 19:47:14 | TomW | ylekyot: http://openhardware.net/TuxScreen/Russ/ |
| 19:47:49 | ylekyot | Great. Thanks Tom. |
| 19:48:22 | TomW | Russ|werk: Try this, put apache on another port, such as 9000 or 8080. Most ISPs leave open 1025..65535 as FTP needs them. |
| 19:48:58 | Russ|werk | I suppose |
| 19:49:07 | Russ|werk | they also block icmp ping |
| 19:49:10 | TomW | Russ|werk: my ISP blocks only incomming SYN packets to ports below 1025 to residentail accounts. |
| 19:49:21 | Russ|werk | like thats going to somehow improve security |
| 19:49:27 | Russ|werk | TomW: ouch |
| 19:49:48 | Russ|werk | at least I get a standard ssh port |
| 19:50:05 | Russ|werk | and auth |
| 19:50:16 | TomW | Russ|werk: I raised hell with them when they blocked port 22!!!! I asked them "just what pointy-haired idiot thought that one up" and "don't you realize what port 22 is used for?". They unblocked it. |
| 19:50:20 | TomW | Russ|werk: heh |
| 19:51:13 | TomW | Russ|werk: apparently a bunch of other people got on their case about it as well. I admin some residential linux boxes via ssh. |
| 19:51:43 | TomW | Russ|werk: try it, set Apache to port 8000 and I'll try the connect. |
| 19:51:59 | Russ|werk | I know that works because I've done it before |
| 19:52:05 | Russ|werk | just not perminately |
| 19:52:23 | TomW | Russ|werk: why? do they find it? |
| 19:53:09 | Russ|werk | no, just because I was busy with other stuff |
| 19:54:36 | Aelhaz | Afternoon, tim |
| 19:55:06 | ylekyot | Hey Tim. |
| 19:55:20 | Russ|werk | http://russ.dhs.org:8000/ |
| 19:55:30 | Russ|werk | I should probably merge whatever is latest tonight |
| 20:01:15 | CosmicPenguin | I thought the tuxscreen framebuffer was in 3-3-2 RGB mode - am I smoking crack? |
| 20:01:33 | TomW | jacques: I need some html URLs to files that are used in this HOWTO, then people dont have to type them in? |
| 20:10:07 | lyakh_home | hi, can anyone through me a 2.4.18-rmk2-txN patch? |
| 20:10:13 | lyakh_home | please:-) |
| 20:11:36 | TomW | lyakh_home: http://openhardware.net/TuxScreen/Russ/ |
| 20:12:35 | lyakh_home | thanks! Any exciting news, btw? |
| 20:13:05 | TomW | jacques: new pdf is available, it has a link so you can grab the spec file and avoid typing it all in. |
| 20:13:14 | Russ|werk | is anyone going to rework the spi stuff? |
| 20:13:32 | TomW | "not I" said Tom.. |
| 20:15:23 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 20:15:32 | lyakh_home | btw, of those scary >70Meg, that are mentioned to be downloaded by "make", without linux-2.4.18, it falls down to about 4.5Meg:-) |
| 20:16:06 | TomW | lyakh_home: heh, you need a fat pipe to do most linux / GNU work... |
| 20:16:45 | lyakh_home | NO, NO and NO!:-) |
| 20:16:56 | as_ | Mmm. Guess I wont get far with a 28.8. |
| 20:16:57 | TomW | lyakh_home: No? |
| 20:17:28 | lyakh_home | It wasn't NECESSARY until now, I'll manage without one for some longer... would be nice though:-) |
| 20:18:05 | TomW | lyakh_home: I guess that I am just spoiled having first a 300Kb/s then a 800Kb/s cable modem. I just get used to grabbing megs of stuff. |
| 20:18:25 | lyakh_home | as_: doesn't matter, drop it down to 14.4 and be happy!:-) |
| 20:18:50 | TomW | as_: at least go with a 56K? |
| 20:19:12 | lyakh_home | Well, you need to dload some Megs sometimes, but so far what I was doing is downloading them at work and then burning / ZIPping... |
| 20:19:49 | TomW | lyakh_home: no way to run a wire back to work, eh? |
| 20:19:55 | TomW | lyakh_home: ;-) |
| 20:20:05 | lyakh_home | :-) 9km:-) |
| 20:20:40 | lyakh_home | easier to move house to work:-) |
| 20:20:42 | TomW | lyakh_home: short enough for ham radio and some surplus microwave setup. Line of sight stuff. |
| 20:20:56 | BZFlag | CosmicPenguin: hmm. I swear I'v done pallete rotation on the tux. maybe I'm on drugs? |
| 20:21:27 | lyakh_home | hm, DSL would still be cheaper, I guess:-) |
| 20:22:16 | TomW | lyakh_home: naw, just run Frame Relay between the house and work, why go in for the limited bandwidth stuff? |
| 20:22:23 | Russ|werk | DSL sucks so bad these days |
| 20:22:35 | Russ|werk | its hard to just get a straight line |
| 20:22:48 | as_ | Tom, I havnt got around to buying a 56K yet, the local exchange only went digital recently. |
| 20:23:10 | Aelhaz | digital exchange is /bad/ for 56k |
| 20:23:25 | as_ | Hmm, why bad? |
| 20:23:29 | TomW | Russ|werk: YUP! Ever since people started running to it it has. The fools at the phone company are really packing them onto the DSL circuits. Almost as bad as a 56K modem anymore. |
| 20:23:55 | as_ | I also found out last week, that the phone company have no plans to install adsl ever here. Bastards. |
| 20:24:15 | Aelhaz | as_: 'cause they like to compress the audio digitally, 56k assumes a pristine copper analog connection to the telco |
| 20:24:21 | TomW | as_: the phone company seems to think that you can pack 50..200 simultaneous users onto a single T1 circuit. |
| 20:24:52 | lyakh_home | as_: blueyonder seems to be a hit in the UK:-) |
| 20:24:59 | TomW | as_: ... 50..200 simultaneous DSL users, that is. |
| 20:25:06 | as_ | The foundation of 56k is assuming you have a short link to the digital unit. |
| 20:25:19 | TomW | as_: same with DSL. |
| 20:25:33 | Aelhaz | as_: But not in the same sense |
| 20:25:54 | as_ | Well, DSL us a tad different, it has its own hardware. |
| 20:26:06 | Aelhaz | as_: around here, "digital exchange" means that the telco ran out of copper and wanted to start digitally multiplexing |
| 20:26:14 | as_ | 56k is designed to use the existing 64kbit digital lines. |
| 20:26:47 | as_ | Its why 56k is the theoritecal max, its the data rate remaining when you take the clock out. |
| 20:26:49 | Aelhaz | Basically, the recieving end of a v.90 connection is an isdn line |
| 20:26:55 | Aelhaz | but your end has to be copper to the telco |
| 20:27:15 | as_ | Umm. |
| 20:27:27 | Aelhaz | I didn't mean literally isdn, I mean, essentially |
| 20:27:37 | as_ | ISDN has the ADC/DAC replaced with a digital transciever. |
| 20:27:48 | Aelhaz | Right |
| 20:28:00 | Aelhaz | so the far end can send data to you theoretically as fast as 56k |
| 20:28:06 | as_ | It uses the basic 64k channels. |
| 20:28:07 | Aelhaz | in the US, not faster than 53k |
| 20:28:22 | Aelhaz | in reality, rarely faster than 42k |
| 20:28:28 | as_ | Hmm, why 53? |
| 20:28:44 | Aelhaz | FCC reg, they think 56k will bleed over onto other lines |
| 20:29:07 | Russ|werk | I think its a power issue |
| 20:29:18 | Russ|werk | they need more power to go 56k, but its limited |
| 20:29:19 | as_ | I dont understand that at all. |
| 20:29:47 | Aelhaz | right, the fcc believes that the tx power required to do 56k will cause the signal to induct onto neighboring copper |
| 20:30:16 | as_ | Here the math is fairly simple, 7bits * 8ksps = 56k, witht he 8th bit being clock. |
| 20:30:17 | Aelhaz | Maybe what you mean by digital exchange isn't what i think it means |
| 20:30:28 | as_ | Possibly. |
| 20:30:30 | Aelhaz | here, the telcos have been internally digital for a decade or more |
| 20:30:48 | Aelhaz | and have until recently run analog copper out from the main office |
| 20:30:53 | Russ|werk | and a digital phone line is 64k iirc |
| 20:31:11 | Russ|werk | so 56k is pretty close to that theoretical maximum |
| 20:31:22 | as_ | It is 64k, but most places add a clock bit for syncing, reduces the max data to 56k. |
| 20:31:24 | Aelhaz | Recently, last three or four years, in really densely populated areas, they've started installing digital equipment at the neighborhood level |
| 20:31:39 | Aelhaz | they use the same copper, but they mux the lines together |
| 20:31:45 | Aelhaz | using digital audio compression |
| 20:31:56 | Aelhaz | and this makes your analog modem connection suck suck suck |
| 20:32:24 | Aelhaz | the telco doesn't care, because they'd rather sell you DSL, and by law they're only required to provide just enough for you to connect at, what, 4800bps? |
| 20:32:41 | Aelhaz | (tho if you complain that your fax machine is having trouble, they'll clean it up enough for 14.4k) |
| 20:32:43 | as_ | Hmm, I wonder what they use. ulaw and alaw are standard methods of putting speech in 8bit half decently, its not really a compression, just a log transform. |
| 20:34:00 | Russ|werk | its nice if you like in phoenix, there is actually a little competition for telco/tv/broadband |
| 20:34:17 | Russ|werk | you can get all three from either cox or qwest |
| 20:34:39 | Russ|werk | and broadband/digital tv from a few other sources as well |
| 20:34:56 | as_ | Unfortunatly the areas its profitable to put one in, its profitable for everyone. People in the middle of nowhere like me get nothing. |
| 20:34:58 | Russ|werk | as long as you don't live in one of the dead zones |
| 20:35:07 | TomW | jacques: CUL. |
| 20:36:54 | Russ|werk | cox is really cleaning up providing digital tv, broadband, and telco all over their fiber loops and coaxial cables |
| 20:37:11 | Aelhaz | Russ|werk: A friend of mine in glendale (almost in peoria) has VDSL from qworst, says it was the only way to get any sort of broadband in his neighborhood |
| 20:37:28 | Russ|werk | ya, he's probably pretty far out |
| 20:37:51 | Russ|werk | we used to have a nice wireless service (transmitters/receivers on mountains) |
| 20:38:01 | Russ|werk | but it got taken over by sprint and went downhill |
| 20:38:18 | Aelhaz | I've got a friend in fountain hills that was able to get regular DSL, but, heck, FH is a snobby suburb of scottsdale, |
| 20:38:32 | Aelhaz | yeah, I heard about that |
| 20:38:57 | Russ|werk | gainey ranch is a big dead zone for some reason |
| 20:39:07 | Aelhaz | *nod* |
| 20:39:19 | Russ|werk | for the longest time, the best we could get at 90th and shea was 128k DSL/ISDN |
| 20:39:22 | Aelhaz | I'm boycotting scottsdale next time i visit the greater phx area, I'm so sick of that town. |
| 20:39:37 | as_ | They are talking about sat access for people like me. Sadly any sat gets saturated the moment they start. Unless they charge massive fees. |
| 20:39:54 | Russ|werk | we have cox out here now, its taken them a while to replace the infustructure of the previous cable company |
| 20:41:22 | Aelhaz | my friend in FH had cable from Cox, didn't have anything kind to say about them, switched to directv |
| 20:43:09 | Russ|werk | Aelhaz: I've had good luck with cox every since they finished their switchover from @home |
| 20:43:16 | Russ|werk | it was rocky for a while though |
| 20:43:49 | prpplague | i started using cablelynx about a year ago and have been fairly happy with it |
| 20:44:06 | Russ|werk | they've really done a good job of solving their bandwidth problems |
| 20:44:22 | Russ|werk | I get 200kB/s to 350kB/s to debian mirrors |
| 20:44:40 | Russ|werk | both here at work, and at home in a residential area |
| 20:44:45 | prpplague | after south western bell gave me absolute hell trying to get a dsl installed i decided to try cable |
| 20:45:08 | Russ|werk | I really wish DSL could have gone better |
| 20:45:16 | Russ|werk | but I think the telcos made it a nightmare |
| 20:45:19 | prpplague | swb tried to tell me that my lines in my house weren't capable of running dsl |
| 20:45:41 | Russ|werk | prpplague: not quite up to cat3 somehow? |
| 20:45:44 | prpplague | to which i said, thats odd, everything is cat5 |
| 20:45:52 | Russ|werk | heh |
| 20:46:07 | file | is happy |
| 20:46:10 | Russ|werk | well you need cat3 to run DSL, you are going to have to rip the cat5 out, I'm sorry |
| 20:46:14 | file | except I have forms to fill out |
| 20:46:51 | Aelhaz | prpplague: I would have said "The hell you care about what's on my side of the demark?!?" |
| 20:47:10 | Aelhaz | and then marched them to the dmark to test at it |
| 20:47:17 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i swear that swb , bell south , and version populate their NOC with homeless people |
| 20:47:48 | prpplague | Aelhaz: ya turns out they didn't even test me lines, it was just an excuse of course |
| 20:47:48 | Russ|werk | I know, the unemployment levels have been way too low to get good people |
| 20:48:05 | Russ|werk | and now we are going to hire whats left for airport security |
| 20:48:10 | prpplague | lol |
| 20:48:24 | Russ|werk | you laugh now |
| 20:48:43 | file | darn it |
| 20:48:44 | prpplague | Russ|werk: naw, those ppl are working for the NSA in their crack winblows security team |
| 20:48:48 | file | internet is unstable... my connection that is |
| 20:49:03 | Russ|werk | prpplague: I think the NSA is moving away from windows (I hope) |
| 20:49:20 | Russ|werk | especially after the statement that releasing the source would be a threat to national security |
| 20:50:44 | prpplague | is it me, or has the quality of customer service in most businesses gone down in the last few years? |
| 20:51:03 | Russ|werk | I think its always been that way |
| 20:52:00 | Aelhaz | competent customer service people cost moeny |
| 20:52:06 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i mean i can remember when RadioShack actually hired ppl who knew electronics and carried electronic components |
| 20:52:18 | Aelhaz | cheaper to run a soup kitchen for drifters, homeless people, and highschool dropouts |
| 20:52:41 | Russ|werk | prpplague: so the questien is, did they ever |
| 20:52:54 | Aelhaz | Some radioshacks did, at one point |
| 20:53:21 | prpplague | Russ|werk: my local RS used to hold little 30 minute classes every sat-n-sun |
| 20:53:26 | Aelhaz | if it weren't for the margins, I believe they'd drop what component business they currently have |
| 20:53:35 | Aelhaz | who can resist selling a $0.05 part for $1.99? |
| 20:53:43 | prpplague | Aelhaz: NS |
| 20:53:49 | Aelhaz | NS? |
| 20:53:58 | prpplague | Aelhaz: No Sh$% |
| 20:54:10 | Aelhaz | ah |
| 20:54:38 | prpplague | Aelhaz: i've been chatting with my wife too long, she uses almost all acronyms |
| 20:55:49 | prpplague | what gets me, is i like to order hardware components without software, and its like "you want to do what?" |
| 21:00:10 | prpplague | anyone here know who "genie moe" from cnn is? |
| 21:01:51 | CosmicPenguin | genie moe from CNN? Is that the chick with the annoying voice that does the useless segments? |
| 21:02:04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: YAH, thats the one |
| 21:02:49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: she is one the highest paid cnn reporters, and i can't figure out why? or how she even keeps her job |
| 21:04:15 | CosmicPenguin | because in these difficult times, its important for me to see a 10 minute segment on dog spas in mid town Manhattan |
| 21:04:45 | Aelhaz | if you don't, then the terrorists have already won |
| 21:05:42 | prpplague | Aelhaz: not i understand that, but i'll take your word on it |
| 21:07:53 | Aelhaz | oh, just felt like the appropriate thing to say |
| 21:08:03 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:08:47 | Aelhaz | <-- being facetious |
| 21:08:47 | prpplague | Aelhaz: the sarcasism was hard to read on that one |
| 21:09:05 | CosmicPenguin | can't wait to get mame running on my playstation 2 |
| 21:10:32 | Aelhaz | I'll decide the terrorists have won when martha stewart goes into hiding. 'course, I'll have mixed feelings about that :) |
| 21:11:27 | prpplague | Aelhaz: or is plays the leading role in a pr0n movie |
| 21:11:29 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: Of course, you can always argue that Martha Stewart is part of the reason that the terrorists hate us so much |
| 21:11:44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: good point |
| 21:11:57 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: Oh, I'm sure of it, at least, if they know who she is |
| 21:12:22 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: if MS plays the leading role in a pr0n movie, then nuclear weapons are probably in order anyway |
| 21:12:27 | CosmicPenguin | shudders |
| 21:12:46 | Aelhaz | Gave me shivvers when she was shilling linnens for kmart |
| 21:13:08 | CosmicPenguin | she still is.... talk about hanging on to a sinking ship |
| 21:13:11 | Aelhaz | reflexively sheilded my eyes whenever that commercial came on, MS in bed . . . *shudder* |
| 21:16:22 | prpplague | gags with thought of MS with pasties on |
| 21:16:49 | | CosmicPenguin is very happy since I got 2.4.17 on CosmicPenguin's Ipaq... that sucker has been unplugged since I did it, and I have used almost no power whatsoever |
| 21:16:49 | prpplague | ibot: CosmicPenguin |
| 21:17:05 | Russ|werk | for some reason, they like bert tho |
| 21:17:43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you got an email i can send this sample app to? |
| 21:20:28 | Aelhaz | last time i needed sheets i didn't get them from kmart specifically 'cause i couldn't find anything decent w/o her face or name on the package |
| 21:30:09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: jordanc@censoft.com |
| 21:30:22 | | CosmicPenguin: I forgot cosmicpenguin |
| 21:30:22 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: forget CosmicPenguin |
| 21:30:50 | | OK, CosmicPenguin. |
| 21:30:50 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: CosmicPenguin is jordanc@censoft.com |
| 21:34:02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ok, on the way |
| 21:34:18 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: nothing spectacular, but, it was very informative |
| 22:02:11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: its looking good so far |
| 22:03:57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you see the code for storing the yes/no answer |
| 22:04:42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: in my sqlite db, i just store a 0 for blank, 1 for no and 2 for yes |
| 22:05:19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if you click the swap button really fast it looks like christmas lights, lol |
| 22:09:13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was able to do a 100 question form in about 1.5 hours last night as a test |
| 22:26:15 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: the swap looked like an old school movie computer.... :) |
| 22:26:43 | prpplague | lol |
| 22:30:49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i sent you one more to look at, its a rough design for testing input methods |
| 22:31:17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: see what you think about the modification to the text output boxes |
| 22:31:51 | file | waves to everyone |
| 22:32:43 | prpplague | hides from file |
| 22:33:01 | file | prpplague : where is that Cybiko Xtreme?!?!?!?! |
| 22:33:03 | file | laughs evilly |
| 22:33:25 | prpplague | file: sitting on my "dead projects" shelf |
| 22:33:34 | file | crys |
| 22:33:36 | file | but I want it! |
| 22:33:57 | file | I require it to test my program on |
| 22:34:08 | prpplague | hollers to his assistant "throw that cybiko junk away!" |
| 22:34:34 | file | crys acid |
| 22:35:09 | prpplague | file: i've got a meeting scheduled about disposal of old equipment the week i get back from OLS |
| 22:35:20 | file | when's that? |
| 22:35:33 | prpplague | june 25-31 |
| 22:35:44 | file | mmm |
| 22:35:51 | file | does that equipment include Cybiko's? |
| 22:35:55 | prpplague | yah |
| 22:36:11 | file | and your going to say what at that meeting? :) |
| 22:36:53 | prpplague | file: is your work open source? |
| 22:37:09 | file | some yes |
| 22:38:02 | file | <<silence>> |
| 22:38:32 | prpplague | file: i'll see what i can do |
| 22:38:48 | file | groans |
| 22:39:07 | file | that musn't be good |
| 22:39:56 | file | offers prpplague a cracker |
| 22:40:44 | prpplague | file: if you want to cury favor with me, you'll need to talk beer |
| 22:40:59 | file | how about $$$ :p |
| 22:41:12 | prpplague | $10,000? |
| 22:41:21 | file | nah |
| 22:41:46 | file | reasonable amount to get you to grab an Xtreme and run :) |
| 22:41:56 | prpplague | $10,000? |
| 22:42:07 | file | $15 |
| 22:42:36 | file | :) |
| 22:42:37 | prpplague | $15,000? |
| 22:42:43 | file | no, $15 |
| 22:43:41 | file | :) |
| 23:16:49 | CosmicPenguin | Wow - time to head home, I think |
| 23:17:55 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'll check that code out in the morning |
| 23:18:07 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Time to go to dinner, or something like that |
| 23:58:08 | TomW | hiccups |