| 00:04:00 | Aelhaz | I just don't like BSD 'cause of the prevaling attitude of it's community |
| 00:04:24 | as_ | What about it, I never got that far? |
| 00:04:43 | Aelhaz | starts over, because the default floppy images don't do resierfs |
| 00:05:13 | as_ | Does the linux tux flash decompress into ram like inferno does btw? |
| 00:05:15 | Aelhaz | as_: snooty, opinionated, seem to believe that no good code has been written since 1991 |
| 00:05:24 | Aelhaz | No, it remains compressed |
| 00:05:52 | Aelhaz | as_: as evidenced by the visible age of nearly all of it |
| 00:05:57 | Aelhaz | (the code in *bsd, I mean) |
| 00:06:04 | as_ | Hmm, ok, I dont understand that answer. |
| 00:06:19 | Aelhaz | as_: When data is read from jffs2, it is decompressed on the fly |
| 00:06:19 | as_ | Is the linux tux image not compressed then? |
| 00:06:28 | Aelhaz | just that data |
| 00:06:31 | as_ | Ahh. |
| 00:06:40 | as_ | Including application code? |
| 00:06:43 | Aelhaz | yup |
| 00:06:56 | Aelhaz | the fs driver handles the compression / decompression |
| 00:07:06 | Aelhaz | it's transparent to userspace |
| 00:07:24 | as_ | Ahhh. Interesting. |
| 00:08:02 | as_ | I'm not sure I like it, but none the less its interesting ;] |
| 00:08:31 | Aelhaz | what's not to like? it conserves space and erase cycles |
| 00:09:02 | as_ | I think the problem is I see 4M as a huge space for an OS. |
| 00:09:08 | Aelhaz | Ah |
| 00:09:10 | Aelhaz | depends on the OS |
| 00:09:16 | as_ | Yes. |
| 00:09:23 | Aelhaz | and what you want to do with it |
| 00:09:42 | as_ | RiscOS is uncompressed and runs on the ROM unless you tell it too. |
| 00:10:20 | Aelhaz | some day i ought to fiddle with the acorn settop I've got until it just lets me run riscos |
| 00:10:30 | Aelhaz | right now, it runs a webtv-alike app on riscos |
| 00:11:02 | as_ | I like RiscOS a lot. |
| 00:11:07 | Aelhaz | I've never used it |
| 00:11:10 | Aelhaz | hear good things about it |
| 00:11:44 | as_ | It looks a little dated compaired to modern guis. |
| 00:11:46 | Aelhaz | this box has something like 16m of ram, a 210m harddrive, and a 56mhz p7500fe |
| 00:12:06 | as_ | Wow, a HD too. |
| 00:12:21 | Aelhaz | Yup |
| 00:12:59 | Aelhaz | the original intent was to run linux on it. linux should run on it, but there's a hardware watchdog somewhere on the board that resets the box before the kernel finishes decompressing |
| 00:13:08 | Aelhaz | and nobody ever figured out how to appease it |
| 00:13:25 | as_ | How old is the system, set top boxes with HDs are almost unheard of here apart from the sky+ and tivo systems. |
| 00:13:37 | Aelhaz | it's fairly old, i think |
| 00:13:40 | Aelhaz | not sure |
| 00:13:48 | Aelhaz | 1997 i think |
| 00:15:29 | prpplague | Aelhaz: that is old for a STB |
| 00:15:58 | as_ | My ST20 nightmare has a dead mans switch in a MCU on the board. The fashion now is to include them in the CPU. |
| 00:18:05 | as_ | I have circuit diagrams for it which helps a lot. |
| 00:18:41 | as_ | I dont suppose phillips would be very helpful if I asked them for a service manual for a shannon. |
| 00:19:03 | Aelhaz | heh |
| 00:26:08 | as_ | Hmm. If they sold a few they should have issued one, but I supposed Tim has already trod that path. |
| 00:45:55 | Vito` | Erm. |
| 00:46:08 | Vito` | Is it just me, or are all the IRC logs just records of joins and parts? |
| 00:46:29 | Aelhaz | maybe we should parse those out of the logs |
| 00:46:38 | Vito` | Then there wouldn't be anything at all. |
| 00:46:45 | Aelhaz | that's a lot of what goes on in channels frequented by people with machines up 24/7 and broadband connections |
| 00:46:56 | Aelhaz | that's not true, a lot of stuff gets discussed here |
| 00:47:06 | Aelhaz | go get yesterdays log and see our opinions on female scifi actresses |
| 00:47:53 | Vito` | Nope. |
| 00:47:59 | Vito` | http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/~timr/20020503.html.gz |
| 00:47:59 | Vito` | Nothing but joins and parts. :) |
| 00:52:02 | Aelhaz | interesting |
| 00:52:52 | Aelhaz | something wrong with that |
| 00:52:54 | Aelhaz | tell tim :) |
| 01:08:19 | as_ | Maybe we were all created this morning with all memories intact. |
| 01:09:54 | Vito` | I don't suppose you know what the deal is with this ShanIP3 modification? I can't find anything but the schematics for shanip2 on the wiki. |
| 01:11:21 | as_ | I cant find anything on the wiki. I'm not sure what it is, but if you only see schematics the chances are its not been finished yet. |
| 01:12:28 | as_ | This is just a guess mind, Ive not got as far as blob yet. |
| 01:14:15 | Vito` | I just spotted a lone mention of it on the mailing list, so I wondered what it was. |
| 01:24:03 | PuckCh | Russ? |
| 01:24:32 | PuckCh | Russ: what's a "decoded backtrace" ? |
| 01:25:38 | as2 | Re. |
| 01:25:41 | as2 | The schematic on the site apears to be an audio mod. |
| 01:27:21 | Vito` | as2... what, shanip2? Yeah, it hooks the phone handset into the audio DSP. |
| 01:27:46 | Vito` | I wanna know what ShanIP*3* is. :) |
| 01:28:34 | Vito` | From: David Jones <spd_racer911@ya...> | 2002-04-27 11:06 | Oops, actually I am testing the Shanip3 mod. |
| 01:28:38 | Vito` | That's, like, it. |
| 01:29:40 | as2 | Aha, I'll look. |
| 01:30:19 | as2 | Shanip1 has a very oddly wired OpAmp. |
| 01:31:30 | as2 | They apear to be different versions of the same mod. |
| 01:32:38 | Vito` | Is there an actual ShanIP1 page? I didn't notice one. Just ShanIP, which links to docs that say ShanIP2. So I assumed they were the same. |
| 01:33:04 | Russ | PuckCh: do you know what ksymoops is? |
| 01:33:16 | as2 | As Ive said, I can never find anything in the wiki, I just went to the schematics section of the downloads directory. |
| 01:33:36 | Russ | PuckCh: it turns all the meaningless numbers in a kernel oops to words that mean things to me |
| 01:33:44 | Vito` | oh, hah |
| 01:33:45 | Vito` | looks |
| 01:34:15 | Russ | PuckCh: it turns all the meaningless numbers in a kernel oops to words that mean things to me |
| 01:34:18 | Russ | oops |
| 01:34:22 | Russ | wrong window |
| 01:34:36 | PuckCh | Russ: I don't really know, but I understand. |
| 01:34:41 | scanline | is away: I'm busy |
| 01:34:52 | PuckCh | Russ: so, how can I do this ? |
| 01:34:55 | scanline | is back (gone 00:00:04) |
| 01:35:44 | PuckCh | Russ: the problem seems not only related to pcmcia, but to modprobe. |
| 01:35:56 | PuckCh | Russ: making "modprobe toto" also crash |
| 01:36:16 | Russ | if it says "oops" |
| 01:36:20 | Russ | its the kernel, not modprobe |
| 01:36:44 | PuckCh | don't say oops, but segfault |
| 01:36:46 | Russ | it generally means that the kernel had the equivilent of a segfault |
| 01:36:50 | Russ | before that PuckCh |
| 01:37:22 | PuckCh | yes, no oops on the screen. will try a reboot... |
| 01:37:31 | Russ | type dmesg |
| 01:38:22 | PuckCh | dmesg give no oops too. First problems seems to be : |
| 01:38:27 | PuckCh | modprobe: unhandled page fault at pc=0x4002f804, lr=0x00000000 (bad address=0x00000000, code -1) |
| 01:38:48 | PuckCh | just after the kernel say "Freeing init memory: 60K" |
| 01:39:25 | PuckCh | i'm not sure, but i don't remember the "old" kernel was using modules ? |
| 01:43:01 | Aelhaz | correct, it was not |
| 01:43:27 | Aelhaz | also, we know that modprobe doesn't work, but insmod does. preload your modules with insmod and you'll be fine |
| 01:43:43 | Aelhaz | or modifiy the pcmcia scripts so they use insmod instead of modprobe |
| 01:44:41 | PuckCh | ok. i will try now with insmod... |
| 01:46:13 | Russ | its a NULL pointer dereference |
| 01:47:14 | Russ | goes to rent |
| 01:56:06 | Vito` | as2... ah, yeah, it looks like a much simpler shanip mod. |
| 01:56:43 | as2 | I dont understand shanip1. |
| 01:57:22 | as2 | It has a very strange Opamp setup as a squarewave convertor. |
| 02:00:29 | as2 | But the input resistor chain seems confusing and unneeded. |
| 02:02:35 | Vito` | That's probably why it eventually evolved into ShanIP3. :) |
| 02:05:31 | as2 | Quite possibly. I fail to see why anyone would couple a sqaurewave with a capacitor. |
| 02:06:32 | PuckCh | ok. with insmod, all is OK. the problem is with modprobe. Thanks for the help. |
| 02:06:42 | PuckCh | Bye, and good night... |
| 02:12:51 | Hiraghm | waves near everyone |
| 02:12:54 | | yes, Hiraghm? |
| 02:12:54 | Hiraghm | ibot |
| 02:12:58 | Hiraghm | hi ibot |
| 02:13:04 | Hiraghm | anybody here? |
| 02:13:07 | as2 | Aloha. |
| 02:13:25 | Hiraghm | Hi! |
| 02:13:35 | Hiraghm | I gotsa question. |
| 02:13:55 | Hiraghm | but it's not bout my Tuxscreen (I'm still trying to figure out how to get the cross compiler working) |
| 02:14:17 | as2 | Youd better ask it then. |
| 02:14:39 | as2 | Whats the worst that could happen? |
| 02:15:26 | Hiraghm | well |
| 02:15:32 | Hiraghm | I wanna build myself a new Linux box |
| 02:15:33 | as2 | Apart from us all laughing, posting your question to a wider audience ending in you commiting suicide from shame. |
| 02:15:45 | Hiraghm | no, that won't happen. I have no shame 8c) |
| 02:16:00 | Hiraghm | You remember the old Macintoshes? |
| 02:16:26 | as2 | No, and I know fa about linux, but go on. |
| 02:16:35 | Hiraghm | you don't remember the original macintosh? |
| 02:16:47 | Hiraghm | the Apple computer? |
| 02:17:05 | as2 | Hmm. No. |
| 02:18:01 | as2 | I think I may have seen a picture of one at somepoint. |
| 02:18:08 | Hiraghm | hm |
| 02:18:10 | Hiraghm | well like that. |
| 02:18:28 | Hiraghm | I wanna build an all-in-one Linux box like the old Macintoshes. |
| 02:18:39 | Hiraghm | only cuter |
| 02:18:43 | Hiraghm | and Linuxier |
| 02:18:54 | Hiraghm | pokes CosmicPenguin and Morph |
| 02:19:01 | as2 | How cute can you hack with a pickaxe? |
| 02:19:11 | Hiraghm | I dunno. I'm pretty good with a pickaxe |
| 02:20:01 | as2 | I suspect hacking apart the monitor might be more trouble than its worth. |
| 02:22:35 | Hiraghm | I agree |
| 02:22:53 | Hiraghm | So I was wondering if anyone ever made a PC equivalent. (other than lunchbox or laptops) |
| 02:23:51 | Hiraghm | There is a Macintosh 5200 to 5400 series that's all-in-one like the original mac, except it has a 15" SVGA display instead of a 10" RGB |
| 02:25:25 | as2 | I dont understand what the problem is. |
| 02:26:24 | as2 | Homebuilt hardware will never be pretty. Making it ugly and working should be done first, and worrying about what it looks like later is the best way. |
| 02:27:04 | as2 | If linux supports the hardware allready, then you build it, if it doesnt then its not worth attempting on your own. |
| 02:31:38 | Hiraghm | I have Linux running on my notebook |
| 02:31:43 | Hiraghm | (and on my Tuxscreen) |
| 02:31:57 | Hiraghm | looks would be the whole point of such a system |
| 02:32:17 | as2 | What would it be for? |
| 02:32:40 | Hiraghm | I'm wondering if someone in the past made an all-in-one PC, for example, that I could purchased used, even non-functional, and modify to work with a new motherboard and the like to run Linux. |
| 02:33:00 | as2 | Ahh. |
| 02:33:31 | Hiraghm | To run software on. Write code, manage my website, maybe some GIMPy graphics... |
| 02:33:40 | Hiraghm | (in other words what I do on my notebook now.) |
| 02:34:12 | Vito` | Hiraghm... I seem to recall a mod I saw once, where someone had taken an old Mac Classic case, installed like a 6.4" VGA LCD display, and crammed a small motherboard from something or other in there. |
| 02:35:02 | Hiraghm | Oooh, that's the kinda thing. |
| 02:35:13 | Vito` | There's also the old I-Opener units, which could be upgraded (for the most part) with faster CPUs, more memory and USB ethernet as well. |
| 02:35:28 | Hiraghm | I saw an ad on ebay where people are selling Mac Color Classics with a 604e motherboard stuffed in them... for $400. |
| 02:35:30 | Vito` | They were Pentium 1-class machines, though. |
| 02:35:42 | Hiraghm | I-openers? got any links? |
| 02:36:10 | Vito` | I'm sure if you Google for it, you'll find plenty of information. Let me see if I can find that Mac hack. |
| 02:40:37 | Vito` | The wonder that is Google: http://www.beanos.com/~tsoutij/mac_classic.php |
| 02:41:37 | Aelhaz | wonder?! |
| 02:42:01 | Aelhaz | I'd have been a lot more impressed if he'd preserved more than 70% of the case, and the original monitor |
| 02:42:29 | Vito` | Google is the wonder. Not the case hack. :) |
| 02:42:29 | as2 | Called google a wonder, not the mod ;] |
| 02:42:37 | Aelhaz | ah |
| 02:42:59 | Aelhaz | I don't have emotional feelings for macintoshes, but i feel sorry for the one he butchered |
| 02:43:13 | Hiraghm | sighs, clearly disappointed |
| 02:43:38 | as2 | I think youd find it hard to make it cuter than a tux. |
| 02:43:53 | as2 | Maybe you can use that to do what you want. |
| 02:44:39 | Hiraghm | I got a tux for what I want a tux for |
| 02:44:42 | Hiraghm | nods |
| 02:44:56 | Vito` | Well, the I-Openers have the advantage of being x86 PCs already, with PS/2 ports, audio, modem and USB, and finished distributions ready for them. Larger LCD as well, although not a touch-screen. |
| 02:45:08 | Hiraghm | and I do like my tux. would like more power and color depth though. |
| 02:45:19 | Vito` | They make for decent thin clients. |
| 02:45:52 | Hiraghm | yeah, I'm seeing some on ebay now |
| 02:46:29 | Hiraghm | that display looks bigger than 10" though? |
| 02:47:17 | Vito` | Nope, 10" diagonal, 800x600. |
| 02:47:28 | Vito` | The two inches of case around the edges just makes it look bigger. :) |
| 02:48:41 | Vito` | You could probably find one already set up with a HD and such on eBay, if that's where you're looking. |
| 02:53:56 | Vito` | So, let me see if I have this TuxScreen stuff all set in my head. |
| 02:55:31 | Hiraghm | Yup, I've seen some set up with HDs |
| 02:55:34 | Hiraghm | Pretty nifty |
| 02:55:45 | Vito` | PCMCIA works and there's a 5v PCMCIA hack available, serial works and there's a second serial port hack available, LCD and touchscreen work, DSP works for audio, so you can play and record properly, and you can hook up the handset to the DSP via one of the shanip hacks to do VoIP more easily. |
| 02:56:22 | Vito` | But the onboard modem still doesn't work, so you can't make or receive software-driven normal calls that way. You can use it as a regular phone, though, it's just not tied into Linux yet. |
| 02:57:13 | Vito` | That would mean not dialing into an ISP via PPP as well, I'd assume. |
| 02:57:18 | Vito` | Is that all correct? |
| 02:57:46 | as2 | I dont think there is a 5v hack for PCMCIA. |
| 02:59:37 | Vito` | Now, now, I have to call you on that one. :) http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/PCMCIA-5V |
| 03:03:15 | as2 | I stand corrected, but it doesnt apear to be switchable. |
| 03:04:33 | as2 | I cant read the page properly, but it seems a lot has happened since I last looked. |
| 03:05:36 | Hiraghm | how bout tying into a network with a pcmcia ethernet adapter? |
| 03:06:07 | as2 | That is sorted for some makes of card. |
| 03:06:19 | Aelhaz | it's not auto-switchable |
| 03:06:39 | Aelhaz | you can get chips that automatically negotiate vcc for pcmcia |
| 03:06:51 | Aelhaz | but it's easier to just modify for what you need and leave it |
| 03:08:10 | Vito` | Anyone know about the DSP and modem issues? |
| 03:09:04 | Hiraghm | how bout tying into a network with a pcmcia ethernet adapter? |
| 03:09:54 | as2 | Ive said, only with some makes of card. |
| 03:10:30 | as2 | Now 5v is possible that list might have been extended greatly. |
| 03:48:40 | as_ | Nite all. |
| 06:30:25 | Vito` | Then again, maybe the reason the logs are filled with nothing but joins and parts is because that's all that goes in here. :) |
| 06:57:31 | scanline | gr.. VHDL makes my stomach hurt, but two of the cores I'd like to use are written in it |
| 07:48:09 | Russ | anyone know what the prefixes mean on diodes? (1N4742 vs SML4742) |
| 09:34:30 | Russ | anyone with shanip/mongoose experince might want to check my tuxscreen-devel reply |
| 13:57:44 | scanline | is away: ZzZz |
| 14:11:26 | tom23 | ok.. I need an expert opinion on whether I've turned a tuxscreen into a paperweight |
| 14:12:17 | tom23 | Admittedly, I was rushing through the flash unlock process... so.. it will be totally my fault |
| 14:14:24 | tom23 | During the 'P/u 0' ... while applying the 12v, it says [Data Aborted] (or something very similar) and locks up |
| 14:15:13 | tom23 | Upon power cycling, the thing just sits there now blankly... powers the screen up, but .. doesn't do anything else.. no fade in boot screen |
| 15:04:55 | tom23 | anybody around ? |
| 15:05:24 | Morn | I just wandered in :-) |
| 15:05:48 | tom23 | so, what is your experience with these things? |
| 15:06:12 | Morn | I have Opie running on mine at this point |
| 15:06:17 | Morn | it's a neat toy :-) |
| 15:06:33 | tom23 | yes.. yes it is.. I'm just trying to figure out if I broke one :) |
| 15:06:40 | Morn | ooops |
| 15:06:46 | Morn | bad flash of the blob? |
| 15:06:53 | tom23 | no... before that! :) |
| 15:07:06 | Morn | break physically? |
| 15:07:07 | tom23 | If it's permanent, it's my fault... I was being sloppy |
| 15:07:18 | tom23 | no, I was trying to unlock the flash |
| 15:07:52 | Morn | what happened? |
| 15:07:53 | tom23 | and following the pages about it, while I was applying the 12V, something similar to [Data Aborted] appeared and it locked up |
| 15:08:13 | tom23 | after that... it powers up, but does NOTHING.. |
| 15:08:24 | Morn | have you tried just disconnecting power for a while and take the batteries out |
| 15:08:26 | tom23 | no fade-in startup screen |
| 15:08:31 | Morn | let the circuts discharge |
| 15:09:04 | tom23 | didn't have the batteries in anyways.. but... perhaps I'll give it another go in a couple hours |
| 15:09:46 | Morn | I haven't seen what you are describing |
| 15:09:53 | Morn | everyting went picture perfect for me |
| 15:10:36 | tom23 | yeah... just wondering if JTAG might fix things, or if I screwed things up this early... is it essentially bricked |
| 15:10:49 | tom23 | since, I have no idea if I successfully unlocked the flash.. :) |
| 15:11:23 | Morn | I don't know enough about that part of the system to make an inteligent answer |
| 15:12:48 | tom23 | welp, thanks for the confessional though ;) |
| 15:13:18 | Morn | if Tim comes around (BZFlag) ask him |
| 15:13:20 | Morn | he would know |
| 15:13:35 | tom23 | I will, thanks |
| 15:17:58 | prpplague | morning all |
| 18:12:23 | Morn | is away: reading (a book, with paper! remember those?) |
| 18:41:26 | Morn | is back (gone 00:29:02) |
| 22:37:15 | scanline | is back (gone 08:39:31) |
| 22:55:57 | sjm | has entered the office |
| 22:59:51 | scanline | is away: something that slightly resembles edible nonpoisonous dinner-ish substances |
| 23:22:49 | scanline | is back (gone 00:22:58) |