| 00:02:32 | Verty | is away: Meeeeeeeeerp! |
| 00:04:59 | andersee | is back (gone 02:14:08) |
| 00:38:43 | scanline | is away: lab time |
| 00:41:41 | jacques | familiar 0.5.2 has converted to 2.5.18-rmk3 |
| 00:41:57 | jacques | which means they should start having the same OOM Killer problems as us |
| 00:50:11 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: No rain at the park here. Kids had a lot of fun... |
| 01:33:30 | jacques | hi andersee, what's new? |
| 02:01:40 | andersee | jacques: not too much |
| 02:29:34 | jacques | i wonder if anyone has tried a recent 2.5 arm kernel |
| 02:29:44 | jacques | they are up to 2.5.10 |
| 02:29:52 | jacques | -rmk1 |
| 02:32:22 | andersee | has never tried 2.5.x, since the unstable kernel has been living up to its name.... |
| 02:33:29 | jacques | you mean it's actually more unstable than 2.4 ?? |
| 02:34:05 | jacques | wm of the wek, fs corruption |
| 02:34:09 | jacques | week |
| 02:34:14 | jacques | vm |
| 02:34:19 | jacques | cant type |
| 02:34:43 | | Russ was last seen on #tuxscreen 4 hours, 53 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying: afternoon [Tue Apr 30 22:41:22 2002] |
| 02:34:43 | jacques | ibot: seen Russ |
| 02:34:47 | | Russ|werk was last seen on #tuxscreen 1 days, 1 hours, 32 minutes and 47 seconds ago, saying: thats for that profet tip [Tue Apr 30 02:02:00 2002] |
| 02:34:47 | jacques | ibot: seen Russ|werk |
| 02:37:39 | jacques | arg i cannot understand the scheme for the -aa patches |
| 02:42:13 | jacques | nobody says where to get the samn patches |
| 02:42:14 | jacques | damn |
| 02:42:30 | jacques | they just say "andrea's vm patch" |
| 02:43:56 | andersee | jacques: http://www.us.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/andrea/kernels/v2.4 |
| 02:44:31 | jacques | andersee: yes but can you find in there the patch for 2.4.18 ? |
| 02:44:36 | jacques | andersee: the -aa patch? |
| 02:45:43 | jacques | is it 2.4.18rc4aa1.bz2 ? |
| 02:45:49 | jacques | what's with the rc stuff? |
| 02:45:57 | andersee | release candidate |
| 02:46:21 | jacques | why no 2.4.18aa ?? |
| 02:46:22 | jacques | yes i know what rc stands for |
| 02:46:29 | jacques | I am expecting a patch for 2.4.18, not a pre or rc |
| 02:46:33 | jacques | but i cannot find one |
| 02:46:42 | andersee | dunno why. Perhaps ask Andrea? |
| 02:47:22 | jacques | but this info should be on line somewhere - i just looked at google but could not find it |
| 02:49:21 | andersee | Hmm. Anybody look at getting the VOCAL stuff running on the tux? http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5348974740.html |
| 02:53:12 | pmisfit | is back (gone 16:44:19) |
| 02:53:35 | pmisfit | howdy |
| 02:54:06 | jacques | hi pmisfit |
| 02:54:26 | jacques | could you make head or tail of the -aa patches? I couldn't |
| 02:54:57 | pmisfit | hmm. haven't had a chance to look. been gradually re-writing busybox init instead ;-) |
| 02:55:10 | jacques | ok |
| 02:55:30 | cpenguin_home | good evening |
| 02:56:01 | pmisfit | sorry, man. depending on how tonite goes, i can try it later. |
| 02:56:01 | jacques | hi cpenguin_home |
| 02:56:10 | jacques | pmisfit: no problem |
| 02:56:28 | pmisfit | andersee: speaking of init, i have a question. |
| 02:58:28 | pmisfit | it's like a thanksgiving turkey, i've been picking at it bit by bit for weeks... |
| 02:59:09 | pmisfit | andersee: oh and welcome back (how rude of me). |
| 03:02:52 | jacques | i am stumped on all my projects |
| 03:02:56 | jacques | oom killer |
| 03:02:58 | jacques | blue screen |
| 03:03:03 | jacques | calibration |
| 03:04:40 | pmisfit | jacques: dude, advice? take a few days off from them, and from irc. |
| 03:04:59 | pmisfit | seriously, your head will clear, solutions will magically appear while on the can or in the shower... |
| 03:05:29 | as2 | groans, chanserve with the topic again. I'll put it back if noone minds. |
| 03:08:01 | pmisfit | i smell burnout... don't let it happen to you... |
| 03:08:58 | jacques | :-\ |
| 03:09:33 | as2 | What projects jaques? |
| 03:09:57 | jacques | oom killer, blue screen, calibration |
| 03:10:36 | as2 | Calibration? |
| 03:10:36 | jacques | im gonna get food before it gets too late |
| 03:10:46 | jacques | as2: tinyx calibration on the tux |
| 03:10:56 | as2 | Ahh, for the TS. |
| 03:11:10 | as2 | Thought about looking at the sboot code? |
| 03:11:32 | jacques | why? |
| 03:12:24 | as2 | Theres a TS drawing thing in sboot. PResumably it uses the calibrated values. |
| 03:13:25 | as2 | If the code is easy to get too, might show you how the TS position is calculated. Just a thought. |
| 03:13:25 | jacques | maybe i should punt and not try to have calibration under x |
| 03:13:50 | jacques | have fb calibration program which writes a file which is read by x |
| 03:14:00 | as2 | Ahh. |
| 03:14:15 | jacques | since new ts driver cannot have multiple readers UNLIKE the old driver |
| 03:14:36 | jacques | ok really getting food now |
| 03:14:37 | jacques | BIAB |
| 03:29:30 | cpenguin_home | andersee: you still around? |
| 03:32:36 | | cpenguin_home: Something failed in connecting to the NOAA web server. Try again later. |
| 03:32:36 | cpenguin_home | ibot: weather KSLC |
| 03:32:40 | cpenguin_home | bah |
| 03:33:11 | cpenguin_home | You've got an window? Open it! |
| 04:14:55 | penguin_home | stupid IPS |
| 04:14:58 | penguin_home | ISP even |
| 04:19:28 | jacques | back |
| 04:25:03 | andersee | cpenguin_home: yup |
| 04:25:28 | andersee | pmisfit: a question? |
| 04:30:27 | pmisfit | andersee: yes. init seems to have code to handle being called as linuxrc. |
| 04:30:46 | pmisfit | i'm not sure when/why that would happen? when linuxrc exec's init, doesn't it get called as init? |
| 04:31:13 | pmisfit | assuming linuxrc is always a shell script. |
| 04:32:12 | andersee | When you enable the busybox linurc feature, /linuxrc is created as a symlink to busybox, which then executes the init applet |
| 04:42:32 | pmisfit | ah. pardon my ignorance, but, if linuxrc isn't a shell script, why not just not have any linuxrc at all? |
| 04:42:54 | pmisfit | my understanding is that if linuxrc is missing, the kernel next hunts for init and launches that. |
| 04:44:20 | pmisfit | reason i ask this is: it seems the sysv init, even after putting commands into /dev/initctl, still has to hunt for init to sent it a HUP signal. |
| 04:45:13 | pmisfit | that's how init knows to read the pipe in a timely manner, at least in the sysv implementation. |
| 04:45:50 | pmisfit | s/pipe/fifo/ |
| 04:46:47 | pmisfit | i was going to poll instead but i might be missing some weird edge case. |
| 04:54:13 | jacques | if you're taking a poll, I say dark blue |
| 04:55:15 | BZFlag | andersee: uudecode does not seem to finish correctly. looking into it now. |
| 04:55:23 | BZFlag | er uuencode I mean. |
| 04:56:07 | BZFlag | uudecode seems fine. |
| 05:04:03 | pmisfit | jacques: hmm there is "stuff" on tty5. isn't that what Xfdbdev tries to start up on? |
| 05:23:23 | Russ | BZFlag: did you check your instruction cache? |
| 05:23:30 | Russ | er, #blob |
| 05:54:29 | BZFlag | I fixed (and shrunk) uuencode in busybox. both uu and base64 appear to be working now. |
| 06:07:34 | jacques | pmisfit: hmm I dunno what tty it wants, maybe should strace it or something |
| 06:07:57 | jacques | pmisfit: someone said you could give the x server an arg to tell it which tty to start on |
| 06:10:34 | BZFlag | jacques: Xfbdev tty4 should start it on tty4. Xfbdev --help for a full list. |
| 06:10:56 | jacques | BZFlag: any suggestions on which tty we should use? |
| 06:11:09 | BZFlag | next available should work. |
| 06:11:29 | BZFlag | might want to move the logs to like tty8+ and start on 7 as is the linux norm. |
| 06:12:23 | jacques | BZFlag: yeah I like that. I am used to 7 |
| 06:13:20 | jacques | hmm look at these options: |
| 06:13:23 | jacques | -ld int limit data space to N Kb |
| 06:13:23 | jacques | -lf int limit number of open files to N |
| 06:13:23 | jacques | -ls int limit stack space to N Kb |
| 06:13:45 | jacques | could be useful to prevent server from taking too much RAM |
| 06:21:06 | scanline | is back (gone 05:42:23) |
| 06:36:02 | andersee | is away: working on writing a document he is not in the mood to write |
| 06:53:06 | scanline | is away: more labs... |
| 07:48:43 | jacques | heading home |
| 08:14:27 | BZFlag | wishes his kernel-from-jffs2 tux would boot up all the way. |
| 08:17:42 | fontenot | me too |
| 08:18:13 | BZFlag | woohoo! |
| 08:18:15 | BZFlag | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 08:18:15 | BZFlag | /dev/mtdblock1 3968 1876 2092 47% / |
| 08:20:40 | fontenot | me me me me!!! |
| 08:21:00 | fontenot | that is so cool |
| 08:22:07 | BZFlag | ok, working on adding it to buildroot now. |
| 08:22:16 | fontenot | whoo-hoo! |
| 08:22:20 | fontenot | hmm |
| 08:22:32 | fontenot | ive never yet actually used a blob I built myself |
| 08:22:37 | fontenot | it's kinda scary |
| 08:22:47 | BZFlag | yeah, I'l put up a blob binary. |
| 08:23:12 | BZFlag | I don't recommend folks compile thier own unless they have jtag. |
| 08:23:22 | BZFlag | too many toolchain issues etc. |
| 08:23:55 | fontenot | exactly |
| 08:23:59 | fontenot | and i dont have jtag yet |
| 08:33:28 | Russ | BZFlag: did you check your instruction cache and flash timings? |
| 08:38:59 | BZFlag | Russ: nope, not yet. ;-) |
| 08:58:23 | fontenot | Russ: have I already asked you about the OOM Killer? |
| 09:21:11 | BZFlag | uploading images to v0.5 |
| 09:21:17 | BZFlag | modprobe seems to be broken. |
| 09:29:43 | BZFlag | crap... I overwrote the v0.5 jffs2. I for got I was making v0.6 |
| 09:29:50 | BZFlag | anyone have the .jffs2 image? |
| 09:34:05 | mallum | hi |
| 09:45:14 | BZFlag | uploaded v0.6 stuff, sent out an email, committed to cvs. have fun. |
| 10:26:29 | ctr | is away: bbiab ~ 15-20 minutes |
| 10:46:41 | ctr- | is back (gone 00:01:59) |
| 11:51:28 | fontenot | damn what did I miss? |
| 14:17:40 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |
| 14:17:45 | CosmicPenguin | is back (gone 00:00:04) |
| 14:22:39 | Morn | good morning prpplague |
| 14:22:42 | prpplague | howdy howdy |
| 14:22:47 | Morn | I got a check today |
| 14:22:53 | Morn | for the lower amount, but I got a check |
| 14:22:57 | prpplague | Morn: wahoo! |
| 14:23:04 | Morn | Lets see if it clears |
| 14:23:08 | Morn | then I'll party |
| 14:23:09 | prpplague | Morn: can i stop holding my breath now? |
| 14:23:19 | Morn | no, you have to wait til it clears |
| 14:24:20 | Morn | I need to ask my roommate for a ride to deposit the booty |
| 14:24:28 | prpplague | Morn: ok |
| 14:37:13 | TomW | prpplague: http://www.openhardware.net/TuxScreen/DriveLocation.jpg |
| 14:43:02 | CosmicPenguin | Morn: hehe... for a second there, I thought you needed a ride to deposit the body.... :) |
| 14:51:53 | mallum | TomW: you have a hardrive in your tux ??? |
| 14:52:16 | TomW | mallum: working on it, yes. |
| 14:53:02 | mallum | TomW: wow |
| 14:53:18 | mallum | TomW: your obviously pretty good with electronics I take it ... |
| 14:53:19 | TomW | mallum: It is a 10Gig 9mm notebook drive that I had lying around doing nothing. So, I designed a PCB to interface to the drive. |
| 14:53:39 | mallum | TomW: does it work just like a microdrive would ? |
| 14:53:46 | TomW | mallum: yeah, I have a few years doing design.. |
| 14:53:54 | mallum | TomW: :) |
| 14:54:24 | mallum | TomW: what I mean by that is the electronics you've added are like whats in a microdrive ? |
| 14:54:47 | mallum | TomW: I saw somebody had done a similar thing for the dreamcast |
| 14:55:19 | TomW | mallum: I am not familiar with what the microdrive is / does. |
| 14:55:42 | TomW | mallum: this is just a standard IDE drive. |
| 14:56:01 | TomW | mallum: ... well, standard 2" IDE drive. |
| 14:56:30 | prpplague | TomW: thats too cool |
| 14:56:42 | mallum | TomW: did you do electronics at colledge ? |
| 14:57:41 | trebb_ | gentlemen, can anybody point me into the direction where I can turn off the screensaver? |
| 14:58:33 | TomW | mallum: no, never went to college, didn't have the time for college. |
| 14:59:10 | pmisfit | trebb_: killall xscreensaver ;-) |
| 14:59:16 | TomW | mallum: my family couldn't afford college, I am self-taught. |
| 15:00:19 | pmisfit | trebb_: all kidding aside, if you mean on the tux, there is a backlight_test program that Russ wrote. |
| 15:00:49 | pmisfit | i use it for turning the tux's screen on and off at will. |
| 15:00:57 | mallum | TomW: cool, best way :) |
| 15:01:01 | TomW | mallum: I am not sure what it is that I will do with a 10G drive in the tux, but it just seemed like something cool to do! |
| 15:01:11 | mallum | TomW: indeed |
| 15:01:31 | mallum | TomW: its the doing it thats important, not the practicallity ... everyone knows than |
| 15:01:34 | trebb_ | pmisfit: yes, of course on the tux :) thanks! Is it on tuxscreen.net? |
| 15:01:37 | TomW | mallum: would make one heck of an answering machine, wouldn't it? |
| 15:01:40 | mallum | s/than/that/ |
| 15:01:45 | mallum | TomW: yes indeed |
| 15:02:09 | pmisfit | trebb: i don't remember where i got it from, unfortunately. if you're in a hurry i can irc or email it to you. |
| 15:02:10 | mallum | TomW: can you give me a pointer on a good electronics book ? |
| 15:02:23 | mallum | TomW: something relevant ... I know basics |
| 15:03:17 | trebb_ | pmisfit: cool, yes please mail it to me: norbert@siepenkoetter.de |
| 15:03:38 | pmisfit | trebb: on its way. |
| 15:03:49 | trebb_ | pmisfit: merci! |
| 15:03:50 | TomW | mallum: drat! I get asked that a lot. I don't have any answer for that, I started out reading schematics & data books, that was to write some assembly language stuff 'cause it interested me. Eventually, I knew enoungh that I started doing hardware desing too. |
| 15:04:22 | mallum | TomW: heh, I know what you mean |
| 15:04:44 | TomW | mallum: I don't know what I like more: hardware / software design, so I do them both. |
| 15:04:58 | mallum | TomW: have you been hacking the bootloader too ? |
| 15:05:06 | trebb_ | pmisfit: I'm lurking on irc with the tuxscreen mostly. It's pretty annoying to press a button every few minutes :) |
| 15:05:07 | TomW | mallum: yes. |
| 15:05:32 | mallum | TomW: nice |
| 15:06:02 | pmisfit | trebb_: i agree. backlight_test is pretty bare-bones, it just flips control bits, basically. |
| 15:06:14 | TomW | mallum: I have to get some info on the ARM assembly language. I have the doc from ARM.org, but I need something a little deeper on the subject. I can almost read the stuff. |
| 15:07:08 | TomW | mallum: the whole purpose in getting a Tux was to learn about ARM, now I like to play with the Tux! |
| 15:07:18 | pmisfit | trebb_: to turn the screen blanker off completely, there's probably an IOCTL somewhere in the Linus-or-Alan-Cox-authored console code. |
| 15:08:20 | TomW | pmisfit: heh, maybe get the source to setterm and see how it is done? |
| 15:08:37 | pmisfit | trebb_: the hoary hack would be to run a silly script like "while true; do ./backlight_test power 1; sleep 5; done" |
| 15:08:49 | trebb_ | pmisfit: uhm... and how would one use that? <:) |
| 15:09:12 | trebb_ | IOCTL that is |
| 15:09:47 | pmisfit | trebb_: take a look at backlight_test.c it's a pretty good example of a simple program using ioctls |
| 15:10:08 | TomW | prpplague: you like that, eh? Does that answer you previous question of "will J602 work?". :-D |
| 15:10:31 | mallum | TomW: ARM asm is meant to be quite nice ? |
| 15:10:32 | TomW | prpplague: I think so. ;-) |
| 15:10:48 | TomW | mallum: no, it is meant to be fast. |
| 15:11:00 | trebb_ | pmisfit: reading it right now, thanks again! |
| 15:12:05 | pmisfit | trebb_: enjoy! |
| 15:12:39 | mallum | TomW: :) |
| 15:12:56 | mallum | TomW: Im hacking a simple mini xdm type app at the moment |
| 15:12:59 | TomW | mallum: thanks. |
| 15:14:07 | TomW | mallum: that is a good idea! I was going to mention that, what we do need is a simple app framework that people, like me who don't know X programming, could start building their X apps. |
| 15:15:34 | TomW | mallum: something stupid, like press a button on the mainform, launches a dialog to get the persons name, then after the dialog quits, prints the persons name on the mainform? |
| 15:16:16 | prpplague | TomW: sorry, i dodn't remeber questioning the usage the of j602, but i looks great anyway! |
| 15:16:39 | pmisfit | TomW: gtk ;-) |
| 15:16:51 | TomW | mallum: that would encompass a lot of essential techniques. We could add that to the buildroot, or include it into your source as an example/ dir? |
| 15:17:21 | TomW | pmisfit: gtk? Gnome Tool Kit? Aiiiiyeeee! |
| 15:17:27 | pmisfit | it'll never fit in 4mb of flash. |
| 15:17:31 | mallum | TomW: this is just a graphical login |
| 15:17:40 | mallum | TomW: fltk would probably fit |
| 15:17:45 | mallum | TomW: but its C++ |
| 15:18:34 | TomW | mallum: screw c++, sorry, but I don't do c++. c++ does not produce compact code and you cannot exert the degree of control over how the code runs as you can in C. |
| 15:18:54 | mallum | TomW: no me niether ( though I have read up on it recently ) |
| 15:19:11 | mallum | TomW: its just X seems to be missing a small gui toolkit thats c based |
| 15:19:22 | mallum | TomW: gtk is small-ish, but not when compared to fltk |
| 15:19:36 | mallum | TomW: I would like to port fltk to c |
| 15:20:06 | TomW | mallum: what compiler are you using? I am using 2.95.3 right now. |
| 15:20:21 | mallum | TomW: ooh god knows ... |
| 15:20:34 | mallum | TomW: what evers in debian unstable |
| 15:20:47 | mallum | TomW: I have an arm machine I complie on |
| 15:20:54 | TomW | mallum: arm-linux-gcc --version |
| 15:21:15 | TomW | mallum: or, gcc --verion (on the ARM machine). |
| 15:21:27 | TomW | s/verion/version/ |
| 15:21:44 | mallum | mallum@doodoo:~$ gcc --version |
| 15:21:44 | mallum | 2.95.4 |
| 15:21:49 | TomW | k |
| 15:23:19 | TomW | prpplague: yeah, I have to finish wiring it up and begin to test it. See if the code in the PLD is gonna do what I need it to. |
| 15:24:19 | TomW | prpplague: unfortunately, the wiring has to be soldered to J602, I just could not find a connector that would go on there and would fit under the analog board. |
| 15:25:22 | TomW | pmisfit: so, I figure that a little soldering won't hurt me.. |
| 15:27:12 | prpplague | TomW: lol, have fun |
| 15:28:56 | trebb_ | nlkhoji |
| 15:29:17 | BZFlag | anyone have the v0.5 jffs2 image? |
| 15:30:00 | prpplague | prpplague: not me, i'm still on v0.4 |
| 15:34:20 | prpplague | mallum: ya fltk makes great small programs |
| 15:34:58 | TomW | BZFlag: ?? v0.5 jffs2 image? What is that? |
| 15:35:10 | mallum | prpplague: fancy porting it to c ? |
| 15:35:50 | BZFlag | TomW: I nuked the jffs2 image by mistake: http://TuxScreen.net/download/v0.5/tuxscreen-image.jffs2 |
| 15:36:28 | BZFlag | TomW: I've been using a > 32k blob for quite some time. |
| 15:36:37 | BZFlag | seems others are having issues with it. |
| 15:36:38 | TomW | BZFlag: I was thinking of putting up a new set of images, one that had tinyx + matchbox in it. |
| 15:36:57 | BZFlag | TomW: kernel-from-jffs2 style? |
| 15:37:13 | TomW | BZFlag: no, I haven't played with that. |
| 15:37:41 | TomW | BZFlag: are you a maintainer on the blob code? |
| 15:38:29 | TomW | BZFlag: meant to say "contributor" to the CVS. |
| 15:40:37 | BZFlag | yeah, I've got write access on blob, and have done a lot of changes lately. |
| 15:41:58 | TomW | BZFlag: have you incorportated the changes I did to blob/include/blob/arch/shannon.c, or should we just continue to patch it? |
| 15:42:18 | TomW | s/shannon.c/shannon.h/ |
| 15:47:06 | BZFlag | TomW_gone: I added the delay on the xmodem, but not the blob relocation. I want to talk that one over with erikm |
| 15:52:10 | prpplague | mallum: port fltk to c is probably out of my league |
| 15:52:34 | prpplague | mallum: i'll be happy just to properly link it to the new uclibc with c++ support |
| 15:57:48 | mallum | prpplague: c++ was originally just aload of c macro's right ? |
| 15:57:52 | GoRK | is rtlinux a viable platform? is the standard kernel good enough for <5ms latency in a high priority userspace app? |
| 15:59:15 | trebb__ | leave |
| 15:59:53 | prpplague | mallum: in addition the fact that recursive functions were supported, as i understand it |
| 16:06:11 | BZFlag | builds a new < 32k blob for old blob users to upgrade to. |
| 16:06:27 | mallum | prpplague: I wonder if a perl script exists to do most of the work converting C++ to C then ? |
| 16:08:13 | prpplague | mallum: seem like it would be a logical tool to have for porting and migration |
| 16:11:02 | mallum | "Bjarne Stroustrup mentions his tool "cfront" |
| 16:11:03 | mallum | (in his book "Design and evolution of C++") |
| 16:11:03 | mallum | which checks C++ and produces equivalent |
| 16:11:03 | mallum | C code." |
| 16:12:01 | levi__ | I think the original C++ compilers first converted to C before passing to a C compiler. Probably with that same cfront program. |
| 16:12:27 | dc_ | heh |
| 16:14:50 | pmisfit | is away: received interrupt... running ISR... |
| 16:15:04 | prpplague | mallum: so whats the goal? to have a complete set of x with winmanager and gui application platform? |
| 16:15:10 | mallum | I cant find any references to it on the web |
| 16:15:25 | mallum | prpplague: just to have a smaller gui toolkit than gtk |
| 16:17:13 | prpplague | mallum: ya fltk definetly would do the trick |
| 16:17:26 | prpplague | mallum: i just wish more dev was going on for fltk |
| 16:17:46 | mallum | prpplague: yes |
| 16:18:07 | mallum | prpplague: like I've looked at it breifly, it doesn't look like it heavily relying on c++ |
| 16:21:35 | prpplague | mallum: i've made about 20-25 apps using the fluid program, all have worked well, but they could use some more tools |
| 16:23:53 | prpplague | mallum: you might want to talk to CosmicPenguin, he's dones some work with the guts of fltk for Century's version called flnx |
| 16:25:59 | CosmicPenguin | eh? |
| 16:26:40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: mallum is talking about doing a c++ to c conversion of fltk |
| 16:28:22 | CosmicPenguin | Ugh... |
| 16:28:39 | CosmicPenguin | Its possible..... but it would be a very time consuming task |
| 16:32:52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: is century doing and fltk/flnx dev at all? |
| 16:33:07 | CosmicPenguin | Our entire STB menuing system is FLTK based |
| 16:33:23 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: toss on a XML parser, and you've got yourself a powerful little system |
| 16:34:32 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: I need to look at fltk again ... I think |
| 16:34:33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed |
| 16:35:14 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: I am a C person to the bone, and I really like FLTK - it uses C++ without getting all elitist about it |
| 16:35:23 | CosmicPenguin | no STL, just standard inheritance |
| 16:35:43 | prpplague | mallum: IIRC tangent or jacques has gotten fltk compiled against the new uclibc with very little problems |
| 16:35:44 | sjhill | the MIPS dynamic linker for uClibc now works |
| 16:35:49 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: yes, I noticed that and liked it |
| 16:35:59 | CosmicPenguin | sjhill: woohoo! |
| 16:36:12 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: thats good news |
| 16:36:31 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: not needing STL is a major plus right ? |
| 16:36:41 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: double plus.. :) |
| 16:37:00 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: does that mean it only needs ( apart from xlib of couse ) libc ? |
| 16:37:37 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: plus its small - The library I am working with right now is 547K |
| 16:37:55 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: yeah - it only needs libc and xlib... |
| 16:37:59 | prpplague | mallum: ya only libc unless you do something special |
| 16:38:07 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: libc++ = STL ? |
| 16:38:17 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: all the wierd << stuff ? |
| 16:38:19 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: libXext is needed too |
| 16:38:29 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: excuse my C++ ignorance |
| 16:39:03 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: thats right - however g++ almost always sticks libstc++ into the shared libary list, though it almost never gets used |
| 16:39:31 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: andersee told me that he got rid of that attitude with uclibc |
| 16:39:50 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: aha |
| 16:41:55 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: can you force g++ not to link libstc++ ( without andersee voodoo ) ? |
| 16:42:01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: did you every make any headway on adding sqlite to fluid? |
| 16:42:26 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I think so - it seems to be a bit random - none of my straight FLTK apps need it, but some other C++ apps do.... |
| 16:42:35 | CosmicPenguin | And since I never use STL, I am at a loss for words |
| 16:42:41 | mallum | :) |
| 16:42:51 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: not at all... I just have that one class that I wrote |
| 16:43:23 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: whats the deal with fltk 2 ? |
| 16:44:04 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: its the future (apparently). I tried it out once, it didn't seem that cool to me, but it was still in alpha stage |
| 16:44:45 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: IMHO, FLTK 1.0.11 + my own classes is stable enough for me.... I can't see any reason to upgrade |
| 16:47:11 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: ok |
| 16:47:21 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: I gonna play ... |
| 16:50:15 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: good luck |
| 16:58:03 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: ooo, xft support .... :) |
| 16:59:47 | BZFlag | ok, new blob up that is under 32k |
| 17:00:14 | BZFlag | it will flash a larger image, but it is small enough that older blobs will still flash it. |
| 17:00:36 | BZFlag | uploading an image with tinyx, matchbox, and rxvt now. |
| 17:00:41 | prpplague | mallum: i have to agree with CosmicPenguin on the fltk 1.0.11 |
| 17:07:35 | mallum | BZFlag: nice :) |
| 17:07:48 | mallum | prpplague: am playing with fluid now ... |
| 17:09:04 | BZFlag | hmm.. guess I ought to get startx working with matchbox first. |
| 17:15:46 | mallum | BZFlag: I need to redo the Xsession.d gubbins for familiar |
| 17:16:01 | mallum | BZFlag: when I do that, I make it work well for tux too |
| 17:16:33 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: does fltk handle window resizes well ? |
| 17:16:53 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: it looks like it expects to stay with one size |
| 17:18:44 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: you know what, I haven't played with that much ... not a lot of window resizing going on on embedded devices, as I'm sure you know |
| 17:18:53 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: or at least dynamically :) |
| 17:22:55 | prpplague | mallum: window resizing doesn't work well |
| 17:23:18 | prpplague | mallum: i mainly use a flag to max the app the the fully screen for embedded apps |
| 17:23:56 | prpplague | mallum: i've been using icewm with extra flags to prevent the app from layering ontop of taskbar |
| 17:26:25 | mallum | prpplague: does it not resize/reposition it widgets on a window resize or are they static ? |
| 17:28:36 | mallum | prpplague: trying some of the tests it seems to do ok, which is good :)) |
| 17:30:32 | prpplague | mallum: i just have problems here-n-there with widget not being repositioned proberly |
| 17:32:19 | mallum | prpplague: I think thats true of all toolkits |
| 17:32:30 | mallum | prpplague: doe sit read XResources ? |
| 17:32:41 | mallum | prpplague: can i globally change the font ? |
| 17:34:29 | prpplague | mallum: hang on a sec, customer call |
| 17:38:53 | prpplague | mallum: ok what was the question? |
| 17:39:59 | mallum | prpplague: is it possible to globally change the font in an fltk app via XResources ? |
| 17:42:29 | prpplague | mallum: sorry don't know an answer about the fonts, however i have used other options from .Xresources |
| 17:46:44 | Morn | blah |
| 17:47:04 | prpplague_meetin | Morn: blah back at ya |
| 17:54:11 | pmisfit | is back (gone 01:39:21) |
| 17:55:43 | pmisfit | trebb: heh. think i found it. it's in the console driver, there is an ioctl 10 which sets vesa blanking mode. |
| 17:56:02 | pmisfit | weird |
| 17:56:24 | pmisfit | there has to be a simple user-land tool to turn this off. |
| 17:56:35 | pmisfit | i can't believe this hasn't been solved before. |
| 17:59:46 | pmisfit | urk, the blanking interval is hard-coded to 10 seconds. no way to change it from userland. not yet anyway... ;-) |
| 18:00:17 | pmisfit | wait, thereis. there is a setterm command. |
| 18:00:30 | BZFlag | is matchbox supposed to have a launcher? |
| 18:02:40 | mallum | BZFlag: no |
| 18:02:51 | pmisfit | trebb: trebb__: found it. the regular linux "setterm -powerdown" does it. checking how to do it on the tux... |
| 18:02:52 | mallum | BZFlag: but I have written one |
| 18:03:12 | mallum | BZFlag: its in in hh.org cvs under apps/mmenu |
| 18:03:41 | mallum | BZFlag: it parses a debian style /usr/lib/menu for entrys |
| 18:04:00 | mallum | BZFlag: monolaunch can also be used to launch single apps |
| 18:04:08 | mallum | BZFlag: thats included with matchbox |
| 18:06:43 | Morn | sighs |
| 18:06:53 | BZFlag | how does monolaunch work? |
| 18:08:45 | mallum | usage: monolauch [options..] xpm program |
| 18:08:45 | mallum | where options are; |
| 18:08:45 | mallum | -d <display> |
| 18:08:45 | mallum | -n <window name> window name of launched program |
| 18:08:45 | mallum | -k kill app, rather than iconize |
| 18:08:45 | mallum | -l launch new clients, rather than map existing ones |
| 18:08:47 | mallum | -r align in right of dock ( matchbox wm only ) |
| 18:09:37 | BZFlag | so xpm is the image that monolaunch will appear as? |
| 18:09:38 | mallum | so you want something like monoluanch -l term.xpm rxvt & |
| 18:09:45 | mallum | BZFlag: yep |
| 18:09:46 | BZFlag | ok. |
| 18:10:37 | Morn | debates reinstalling Solaris... or maybe trying linux on the ultrasparc |
| 18:11:20 | BZFlag | what size is it expecting? |
| 18:12:13 | mallum | BZFlag: whatever you want, but they need to fit on the dock really |
| 18:12:28 | mallum | BZFlag: by defualt to dock is 20pix high so 16x16 icons work well |
| 18:13:04 | mallum | BZFlag: you can make the dock bigger on startup and use bigger icons if you want |
| 18:13:49 | mallum | BZFlag: I can mail you a 16x16 term icon if you want |
| 18:17:48 | pmisfit | trebb: looks like typing "<escape>[14;0]" will turn screen blanking off entirely |
| 18:18:44 | BZFlag | monolauch: failed loading image '/usr/X11R6/share/matchbox/themes/rxvt.xpm' |
| 18:18:44 | pmisfit | TomW_gone: setterm is a big help, thanks. amazing how little i know about... well, everything... |
| 18:18:58 | pmisfit | is adrift in his own ignorance |
| 18:19:08 | BZFlag | mallum: I grabbed the xterm_16x16.xpm from icewm |
| 18:19:14 | BZFlag | but it fails to load. |
| 18:19:19 | trebb__ | pmisfit: does it? cool! whats the logic behind this? |
| 18:20:07 | pmisfit | trebb__: i know precious little about terminal i/o. but it looks like these escape sequences change all kinds of terminal attributes. |
| 18:20:30 | pmisfit | trebb__: the userland tool to set them is "setterm". but all it does is outputs these sequences to stdout. |
| 18:20:53 | mallum | BZFlag: arg, I think its got the old xpm loading code left in it |
| 18:21:02 | mallum | BZFlag: it will take me 30 secs to fix |
| 18:21:08 | pmisfit | trebb__: so, you can > them to a file and look at them. |
| 18:21:56 | pmisfit | trebb: then i use xxd to view them. this one is: 0000000: 1b5b 3134 3b30 5d .[14;0] |
| 18:22:19 | mallum | BZFlag: around line 317, change attrib.valuemask = 0; |
| 18:22:23 | mallum | BZFlag: to |
| 18:22:46 | pmisfit | trebb: the "." is the "1b", or octal \033, which is "exscape" (as we used to call it back home in noo yawk) |
| 18:23:10 | mallum | BZFlag: to xpm_attr.valuemask = XpmCloseness; |
| 18:23:10 | mallum | xpm_attr.closeness = 40000; |
| 18:23:56 | mallum | BZFlag: but name xpm_attr to attrib ( I just cut and pasted ) |
| 18:23:58 | pmisfit | trebb: the guys who grew up with vt100 terminals 20 years ago are probably rolling their eyes right now... |
| 18:24:07 | mallum | BZFlag: I will fix properly later and get into cvs |
| 18:24:19 | trebb__ | pmisfit: impressive... :) |
| 18:24:26 | mallum | BZFlag: and update the tarball buildroot is using |
| 18:24:42 | trebb__ | pmisfit: 20 years ago I was dreaming of an c65 :) |
| 18:24:56 | trebb__ | c64 that is... |
| 18:25:09 | BZFlag | mallum: cool. |
| 18:25:14 | mallum | BZFlag: sorry for randomness. I have to shoot off now |
| 18:25:20 | pmisfit | trebb: heh. i was an apple ][ guy. then a mac-head. and then came to unix late, a few years ago. |
| 18:25:56 | mallum | BZFlag: it was an issue me and fontenot discovered the other day. I thought I had fixed all the xpm loading code but obviously not that .... :( |
| 18:26:56 | trebb__ | pmisfit: I went "the other way": c64 amiga1000 pc/linux |
| 18:27:38 | trebb__ | pmisfit, oh wait, it was an amiga500 with 256k |
| 18:27:46 | pmisfit | trebb__: wow. i'm still impressed by those amigas. very underrated machine, it seems. |
| 18:28:42 | trebb__ | pmisfit: yes, it was, but booting from floppy was sooo slow :) |
| 18:31:03 | pmisfit | trebb__: yep. could have been worse, tho... could have been loading programs off of cassette tape ;-) |
| 18:32:16 | trebb__ | pmisfit: that sound was music in my ears... |
| 18:33:47 | pmisfit | trebb__: lol. that and acoustic-coupled 300 baud modems.... nostalgia overdose... |
| 18:34:58 | pmisfit | trebb__: anyway, i don't have a console on my tux right now. if you get a chance to try the escape sequence it'd be nice to know that it works. |
| 18:37:05 | trebb__ | pmisfit: I tried it and it seem'd to hang the console... |
| 18:37:44 | trebb__ | pmisfit: have to wait some minutes now to see if it turned off screenblanking |
| 18:49:03 | trebb__ | pmisfit: hmm, screen just blanked out :( |
| 18:57:52 | BZFlag | ok, new images up. ;-) http://TuxScreen.net/download/v0.6/ |
| 18:58:14 | BZFlag | new blob with xmodem and kernel-from-jffs2 support. |
| 18:58:22 | scanline | is away: I'm busy |
| 18:58:33 | BZFlag | and a new jffs2 with tinyx, matchbox and rxvt. |
| 18:58:35 | scanline | is back (gone 00:00:03) |
| 18:58:46 | BZFlag | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 18:58:46 | BZFlag | /dev/mtdblock1 3968 3520 448 89% / |
| 18:59:17 | BZFlag | modular kernel, so rm and modules you _know_ you don't need. |
| 18:59:25 | BZFlag | s/and/any/ |
| 19:00:54 | pmisfit | trebb__: hmm. that's the opposite of what should happen... |
| 19:05:08 | pmisfit | trebb__: try ack just hosed myself trying this out. |
| 19:51:05 | scanline | is away: class |
| 19:55:03 | mallum | BZFlag: nice |
| 19:55:13 | mallum | BZFlag: di monolaunch fix up ok ? |
| 19:58:40 | Aelhaz | after reading the mailing list, I think I'm going to wait a few weeks before updating my phones again |
| 19:59:02 | Aelhaz | let people with jtag work the kinks out of busybox, and let people with knowhow work the kinks out of tinyx |
| 19:59:43 | Aelhaz | er, s/busybox/blob |
| 20:53:49 | scanline | is back (gone 01:02:43) |
| 20:54:03 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 14 hours, 18 minutes and 1 seconds ago, saying: is away: working on writing a document he is not in the mood to write [Wed May 1 07:36:02 2002] |
| 20:54:03 | sjhill | ibot: seen andersee |
| 21:45:42 | as_ | Hiya prp. Ive dumped the flash from this machine now its working. |
| 21:46:18 | prpplague | as_: hey you gota good image? |
| 21:46:39 | as_ | Not sure yet, I'll dump it again and do a file compair. |
| 21:47:12 | as_ | These are very cool units. |
| 21:49:31 | Morn | prpplague: how goes? |
| 22:31:47 | prpplague | Morn: funfun, just had one of those wonderful sales/hardware/software meetings |
| 22:33:49 | prpplague | Morn: were doing a complete migration from SCO to linux and R&D(my department) is trying to break the old habits of SCO |
| 22:34:15 | prpplague | Morn: i.e. data files with 777 permisions |
| 22:34:36 | Morn | yikes! |
| 22:34:41 | Morn | good security |
| 22:34:54 | prpplague | Morn: tell me about |
| 22:34:59 | prpplague | Morn: it |
| 22:35:44 | Morn | can you tell me why a 18gb uw scsi drive is $225 and a 160 gb EIDE drive is $186? |
| 22:36:06 | prpplague | Morn: we are struggling with that same issue |
| 22:36:43 | fvgestel | Morn: production quantity lowers the price |
| 22:36:44 | Morn | I'd be less upset if solaris could mount a smbfs drive |
| 22:36:59 | prpplague | Morn: what we are being told is that there is a royality issue involved |
| 22:37:36 | Morn | Well, I'm finishing up a backup of my private data on the solaris box, and reinstalling fresh with Solaris 9 Early Access |
| 22:38:09 | Morn | I also love installing via a serial cable shell |
| 22:38:09 | fvgestel | and they know that companies will pay whatever is needed. Just ordered two spare powersupplies and network-cards for two sun 220R systems : 1900$ |
| 22:38:17 | prpplague | Morn: i've not forgotten you on the drives, its been a nightmare already this week |
| 22:38:32 | prpplague | Morn: i'm going to enjoy my beer tonight |
| 22:38:32 | Morn | prpplague: I haven't been pushing because I know your busy |
| 22:38:39 | Morn | I just appreciate you thinking of me |
| 22:38:45 | prpplague | Morn: np |
| 22:39:04 | prpplague | thinks of Morn using Slowaris, lol |
| 22:39:21 | Morn | prpplague: I think solaris runs better on sparc arch then intel |
| 22:39:34 | Morn | and it is the intel version that gives it the nickname slowaris |
| 22:39:53 | Morn | And none of the linux distro's for US are very appealing |
| 22:39:54 | prpplague | Morn: i've only had experience on the intel |
| 22:40:09 | Aelhaz | Morn: |
| 22:40:12 | Aelhaz | Morn: That |
| 22:40:15 | prpplague | Morn: rhat not to your liking? |
| 22:40:17 | Aelhaz | FEH |
| 22:40:22 | Aelhaz | Morn: That's not true |
| 22:40:27 | Morn | the redhat distro is anchine 6.2 |
| 22:40:37 | CosmicPenguin | Argh - nothing is worse than an "Unknown interrupt" |
| 22:40:53 | Morn | Aelhaz: I had some serius trouble even installing some of the Linux distros |
| 22:40:54 | Aelhaz | Morn: Solaris is called Slowaris because when Sun rewrote SunOS to be SysV-alike instead of BSD-alike, and changed the name to Solaris, it was significantly slower |
| 22:40:59 | Aelhaz | and this was before it was available for x86 |
| 22:41:28 | Morn | Aelhaz: ok, if you say so, but I think it runs just fine on the ultrasparc I have |
| 22:41:30 | Aelhaz | I've been running linux/sparc since 1997 |
| 22:41:37 | prpplague | Morn: oh no see what we've got started! |
| 22:41:42 | fvgestel | Aelhez, Yeah, but I'm much happier running any solaris version than SunOS 4 |
| 22:41:45 | file | all your fault prpplague |
| 22:41:46 | Aelhaz | Morn: Yeah, but way back when, it was a major difference |
| 22:41:53 | fvgestel | +other |
| 22:41:56 | prpplague | bows his head in shame |
| 22:42:10 | file | prpplague : for that you must give me a Cybiko! :p |
| 22:42:13 | Aelhaz | Morn: Linux/Sparc is faster than Solaris/sparc, too, tho |
| 22:42:18 | Morn | I have trouble with the fact that all the linux distros don't like 1 gig of ram |
| 22:42:28 | Aelhaz | there's an explanation of how & why online somewhere, written by a former Sun engineer |
| 22:42:29 | Morn | Aelhaz: 32 or 64 bit sparc? |
| 22:42:31 | fvgestel | The solaris thread-implementation is also much more elegant than pthreads |
| 22:42:56 | Aelhaz | Morn: 32 bit for sure, dunno about 64, solaris is definately better at smp on solaris 64 |
| 22:42:56 | Aelhaz | er, sparc 64 |
| 22:43:11 | Morn | I run a solaris in 64 bit mode |
| 22:43:16 | prpplague | Morn: are we talking about 1gig on a sparc? |
| 22:43:17 | Morn | that may be the difference we are seeing |
| 22:43:21 | Aelhaz | initially, linux/sparc64 was faster than solaris/sparc64, this probably isn't true since solaris 8 |
| 22:43:36 | Morn | prpplague: yes 1 gig of ram in the sparc |
| 22:43:38 | Aelhaz | and solaris 9 is supposed to come out real soon now |
| 22:44:00 | Aelhaz | debian/stable runs like a champ on my wimpy 2xSM51 512m ss10 |
| 22:44:14 | Morn | I have the Early access of Solaris 9 |
| 22:44:14 | fvgestel | ss5 here with rh6 |
| 22:44:19 | Morn | I'm going to install it tonight |
| 22:44:45 | fvgestel | slow as a snail, but unhackable for most script-kiddies |
| 22:44:57 | Morn | I have a SS2 in the basement |
| 22:45:04 | Morn | It needs a new nvram chip |
| 22:45:08 | Aelhaz | yeah, most scriptkiddies depend on precompiled x86 binary code |
| 22:45:16 | file | prpplague : just sitting back and watching the conversation? |
| 22:45:17 | fvgestel | Morn: doesn't it boot anymore? |
| 22:45:20 | Aelhaz | i have an ss2 in a closet. it needs a reason to exist. |
| 22:45:27 | Morn | fvgestel: no |
| 22:45:35 | Morn | some weird error I don't remember |
| 22:45:36 | Aelhaz | Morn: With a dremel tool, you can replace the battery in the nvram chip |
| 22:45:49 | Morn | haven't tried to boot it in about a year and a half |
| 22:45:54 | Aelhaz | and with an eprom burner, some guy in new zealand or something has an archive of images |
| 22:46:10 | Morn | Aelhaz: would be cheaper to replace the chip than buy a dremel tool |
| 22:46:20 | Aelhaz | Morn: but would it be as much fun? |
| 22:46:28 | Morn | you have a point there |
| 22:46:32 | fvgestel | Morn: I once revived an IPX, by removing the nvram, turning on power and put back the nvram when power is on. Turn off and on again, and the nvram is back to default. |
| 22:46:36 | mallum | I thought Linux was slower than solaris on sparc hardware cos the Linux disk drivers were crappy ? |
| 22:46:50 | Russ|werk | page tables iirc |
| 22:47:21 | Morn | I heard that linux runs better on the 32 bit sparcs and solaris better on the 64 bit sparcs |
| 22:47:25 | Aelhaz | mallum: Some drivers might suck - the xservers do for sure |
| 22:47:40 | Morn | is there a working X for linux/sparc yet? |
| 22:47:49 | Aelhaz | solaris and *bsd both provide faster X on my sparcs |
| 22:47:55 | Aelhaz | but they run headless, so it doesn't matter |
| 22:48:03 | Aelhaz | Morn: Oh yeah, for nearly all framebuffers |
| 22:48:06 | Aelhaz | only a few weird ones don't work |
| 22:48:09 | mallum | Aelhaz: linux on my sparc10 was definetly slower than solaris 7 |
| 22:48:15 | Morn | this ultrasparc doesn't even have a video card |
| 22:48:23 | Aelhaz | mallum: slower at what tho? |
| 22:48:40 | mallum | Aelhaz: just slow :( |
| 22:48:50 | mallum | Aelhaz: I never got as far as X |
| 22:49:00 | mallum | Aelhaz: it was dual proc too though |
| 22:49:13 | Morn | well, since I do a lot of java work and now sun has a 64 bit java for the ultrasparcs I'll stick with solaris |
| 22:49:19 | mallum | Aelhaz: and I dont think the Linux support for that was all that great at the time |
| 22:49:27 | mallum | Aelhaz: dual 50mhz - woohoo |
| 22:49:40 | Aelhaz | mallum: yeah, that's what my server is |
| 22:49:44 | Aelhaz | with buckets of ram |
| 22:49:55 | Aelhaz | 512m, and i still have a big pile of dsimms |
| 22:49:56 | mallum | I had 48Mb |
| 22:50:04 | Aelhaz | I need to figure out which ones are ss20 compatible |
| 22:50:08 | mallum | I was gonna install solaris 8 |
| 22:50:09 | Morn | this has a 360Mhz cpu, I looked at a 440Mhz cpu but they wanted $1,295 for it |
| 22:50:12 | Morn | I laughed |
| 22:50:14 | mallum | but it needed 64mb |
| 22:50:15 | Aelhaz | bunch of them are kingston, should be able to look up the part numbers |
| 22:50:27 | mallum | so I swapped it for a monitor :( |
| 22:50:39 | Aelhaz | I have two ss10's i need to get rid of |
| 22:50:42 | Aelhaz | or at least one of them |
| 22:51:34 | fvgestel | Aelhaz: why do you want to get rid of them? Thay don;t take up much space... |
| 22:51:41 | Morn | I want to put a video card and maybe a sound card in this box, but I have to find out my options |
| 22:52:59 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: 'cause i realized, after a long time, that i don't particularly like using them as console machines |
| 22:53:15 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: and i've got much faster boxes that i'm also not using for being too slow |
| 22:53:20 | Aelhaz | anybody want a dec multia, btw? |
| 22:54:02 | Morn | I'm looking for a PDP11 :-) |
| 22:54:52 | fvgestel | Aelhaz : it looks like you're a hardware junkie. I shouldn't say that too load; I've also got a PDP 11 and an HP/apollo 433 over here |
| 22:55:17 | fvgestel | Morn: that's coincedence |
| 22:55:36 | prpplague | 's currently desktop is a dual xeon 2.2 with 2gb ram |
| 22:55:58 | Morn | prpplague: I have a dual atholon (1400MP) with 2 gig of ram |
| 22:56:01 | fvgestel | wants it |
| 22:56:10 | Morn | I need to upgrade the cpus |
| 22:56:12 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: youw wouldn't happen to know if linux/parisc is up to a point where a normal joe can boot it up and use it, is it? |
| 22:56:14 | Morn | more power scotty! |
| 22:56:26 | fvgestel | I'm still at my dual celeron 500 ( 4 years old ) |
| 22:56:35 | Aelhaz | keep in mind that by "normal joe" I mean someone who has no qualms about fighting with proprietary boot proms to load linux |
| 22:56:48 | Morn | fvgestel: I want to revive my dual ppro downstairs |
| 22:56:50 | Aelhaz | yeah, dual celeron 466 here |
| 22:56:51 | Aelhaz | it |
| 22:56:54 | Aelhaz | it's a workhorse |
| 22:57:51 | mallum | 's big machine is only a duron 700 ( clocked to 850 :) ) |
| 22:58:06 | Aelhaz | some day, probably 6 months after i get my next job, i'm going to build a dual athlon |
| 22:58:19 | Morn | when I got the second gig of ram the guy asked me if I was trying to break into NASA or something |
| 22:58:21 | Aelhaz | hell, maybe by the time i'm gainfully employed again, quad boards won't be very expensive |
| 22:58:38 | Aelhaz | Morn: but you don't need much ram for that |
| 22:58:44 | fvgestel | Aelhaz: the HP is a motorola 68040, and runs linux fine ( slow though ) |
| 22:58:44 | Morn | grin |
| 22:58:55 | fvgestel | not 68040, but... |
| 22:58:55 | Aelhaz | and i have it on good authority that people do it all the frickin time |
| 22:59:28 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: ah, my brother has an hp somethingorother parisc box doing nothing |
| 22:59:41 | Aelhaz | I think i have a pair of 64m apollo simms here, I need to test them in that box |
| 22:59:59 | Morn | my dual ppro uses EDO ram |
| 23:00:04 | Morn | that stuff is expensive |
| 23:00:17 | Aelhaz | Morn: prolly 3.3v edo ecc dimms |
| 23:00:23 | fvgestel | Aelhaz : I booted linux once on a 7 series workstation using a microkernel |
| 23:00:24 | Aelhaz | unbuffered, too |
| 23:00:28 | Aelhaz | those are awfully expensive |
| 23:00:28 | Morn | edo ecc yess |
| 23:00:35 | fvgestel | Aelhaz : It wasn't easy though |
| 23:00:42 | prpplague | heads home |
| 23:00:43 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: oh, mklinux is dead anyhow |
| 23:00:52 | Morn | it ran like a champ though whe I had it as my production server |
| 23:01:35 | fvgestel | BTW, if anyone is interested, I compiled a kernel which allows swap over NFS. Look at the wiki for details |
| 23:01:36 | Aelhaz | iirc it's a 715/80 |
| 23:01:52 | Morn | can someone tell me the difference between PC2100 PC2400, etc ram? |
| 23:01:58 | Morn | or is that a stupid question? |
| 23:02:01 | fvgestel | Aelhaz: I had a 712/60 |
| 23:02:44 | Aelhaz | Morn: Heck, maybe nobody can |
| 23:02:54 | fvgestel | Aelhaz : why don't you run HP-UX on it? |
| 23:02:59 | Morn | ok, so I don't feel stupid |
| 23:03:15 | Aelhaz | Morn: I once spent a few hours trying to track down the actual honest-to-god difference between pc100 and pc133 |
| 23:03:34 | Aelhaz | Morn: pc133 has nothing to do with the speed of the ram. at all. |
| 23:03:39 | Morn | it is the memory bus speed |
| 23:03:57 | Aelhaz | it's not the memory bus speed, that's marketing talk and has no relation with reality |
| 23:03:59 | fvgestel | Aelhaz: I used the 712/60 running HP-UX 10.20 and mpg123 as a standalone MP3 jukebox in the livingroom |
| 23:04:12 | fvgestel | Aelhaz : the 712 is a very slim desktop box |
| 23:04:15 | Aelhaz | intel's pc133 spec dictates the electrical properties of the dimm |
| 23:04:26 | Aelhaz | that's why you see more caps, resistors, etc on pc133 than pc100 |
| 23:04:32 | Morn | Aelhaz: then why does my roommates computer have a jumper for memory bus speed and pc133 ram didn't run at the pc100 setting? |
| 23:04:44 | Aelhaz | I've got pc100 dimms that are 6ns and pc133 dimms that are 8ns |
| 23:05:09 | Aelhaz | Morn: I've never seen that, I run pc133 ram in all of my 100mhz pc100-designed boxes |
| 23:05:13 | Aelhaz | like six of them |
| 23:05:32 | Morn | well this one flaked out til I realized that jumper was wrong |
| 23:05:35 | Aelhaz | I've got pc133 ram running at 66mhz in my dual celeron |
| 23:05:43 | fvgestel | the diff between PC100 and 1330 is the transfer rate between memory and processor AFAIK |
| 23:06:16 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: but mhz of the cpu and ns of the ram are apples & oranges |
| 23:06:20 | Aelhaz | apples & onions, actually |
| 23:06:40 | fvgestel | Aelhaz: true |
| 23:06:49 | Aelhaz | it's like saying your car's top speed is blue |
| 23:07:11 | Aelhaz | RDRAM, they really mean mhz, but that stuff violently different from DRAM |
| 23:07:54 | Aelhaz | RDRAM is a bus, with a protocol that both ends need to speak. great throughput, suck-wind latency |
| 23:07:54 | Morn | anyone know anything about dvd+rw's? |
| 23:08:27 | fvgestel | Aelhaz : and gets very hot |
| 23:08:41 | Aelhaz | fvgestel: Yeah, where, dram doesn't actually get hot. |
| 23:08:59 | Aelhaz | other parts of the silicon in the chip get warm, but dram itself doesn't |
| 23:09:30 | Aelhaz | anyway, I've got to get to the grocery store. bbl. |
| 23:09:37 | fvgestel | bye |
| 23:17:22 | CosmicPenguin | is away: This has been a most frustrating week |
| 23:45:13 | BZFlag | mallum: I used the next.xpm and it's fine. the romimage on SF starts one, yes. |
