| 00:00:17 | Russ|werk | what if I found a mosfet with a lower rds |
| 00:01:14 | as2 | sjm, the values you gave for your system, was it a pipolar transistor? |
| 00:01:22 | as2 | Err, Bipolar. |
| 00:01:44 | sjm | That graph I just posted? |
| 00:01:47 | as2 | I think for an N channel MOSFET, 0.1Ohm is not bad. |
| 00:01:57 | as2 | No the 15millohm on res. |
| 00:02:15 | sjm | Oh. Nope. It was a power mosfet - used in the automotive industry. |
| 00:02:30 | as2 | Hmm, thats very low. |
| 00:02:36 | Russ|werk | sjm: which mosfet? |
| 00:02:48 | sjm | ummm... gimme a sec |
| 00:02:53 | Russ|werk | I'm looking to use it in a car |
| 00:03:00 | Russ|werk | to replace a relay |
| 00:03:22 | as2 | What does the circuit power? |
| 00:03:36 | Russ|werk | a computer terminal |
| 00:03:46 | Russ|werk | 6A average draw, but up to 8A |
| 00:04:09 | as2 | You should replace it with a tux, haha ;] |
| 00:04:32 | Russ|werk | I'm just contracted to do the layout for this board |
| 00:04:35 | file | I think I liked my Cybiko white... |
| 00:04:48 | as2 | Ahh. |
| 00:04:50 | Russ|werk | it gives the unit power a minute after the vehicale starts (555 time) |
| 00:05:30 | as2 | What is the board going to be cased in, anything you can dump heat too? |
| 00:05:43 | Russ|werk | hopefully, I can do it one sided copper, with all PNP placeable SMD components |
| 00:05:49 | Russ|werk | as2: I'd have to ask |
| 00:05:54 | Russ|werk | there are two mounting holes |
| 00:06:41 | Russ|werk | if I had the RDS of sjm's mosfet, I would be dissapaiting less than a watt |
| 00:06:49 | Russ|werk | so I wouldn't really care |
| 00:07:05 | as2 | 15milliohm is tiny though. |
| 00:07:21 | as2 | I wonder if theres a big price difference. |
| 00:07:24 | Russ|werk | thats what I'm saying, just layout some copper fill and you are set |
| 00:09:07 | Russ|werk | I'm think the one I was looking at is less than $0.50 |
| 00:10:20 | sjm | http://www.infineon.com/cgi/ecrm.dll/ecrm/scripts/prod_ov.jsp?oid=13852 |
| 00:10:36 | sjm | scroll down to BTS840-S2 that's the one... |
| 00:10:47 | Russ|werk | these boards fit maybe 64 to a panel, so to make that entire panel PNP is a major labor savings |
| 00:11:31 | Russ|werk | you are connecting them in parallel? |
| 00:11:56 | sjm | yeah |
| 00:12:18 | Russ|werk | what is a heat slug? |
| 00:12:36 | sjm | A copper tab that's fitted under the device |
| 00:13:03 | Russ|werk | cool |
| 00:13:16 | file | RUSS!!!!!! |
| 00:13:21 | Russ|werk | yes file? |
| 00:13:25 | file | hi. |
| 00:14:24 | Russ|werk | sjm: and this is safe to use in a vehicle (overvoltage/spikes) |
| 00:15:05 | sjm | Yep, that's why we used it. It is an approved part. |
| 00:15:49 | Russ|werk | how much? |
| 00:16:14 | sjm | No idea off the top of my head :( Sorry. |
| 00:16:23 | sjm | I don't work for that company any more. |
| 00:18:03 | file | MACINTOSH 4EVER! |
| 00:19:23 | RedBeard | file: I've got a mac classic and one in the same sort of form factor, do you want them? |
| 00:19:44 | | tomw was last seen on #tuxscreen 3 hours, 47 minutes and 18 seconds ago, saying: prpplague: nope. [Mon Apr 29 21:32:26 2002] |
| 00:19:44 | jacques_gone | ibot: seen tomw |
| 00:19:56 | RedBeard | the classic has a flakey powersupply but the other one has a good power supply. pay shipping and they're yours |
| 00:21:18 | file | RedBeard: cost too much to ship |
| 00:21:58 | file | how much does it weigh? |
| 00:23:01 | file | erm |
| 00:24:06 | Ailhaz | it's too bad the Plus only has 4 megs of ram, else it could run uclinux |
| 00:24:23 | file | I like MacOS, any chance to use it is good |
| 00:24:59 | as2 | Russ, thats odd, the stated thermal resistance without a heatsink is lower than the other package. |
| 00:25:21 | Russ|werk | why is that odd? |
| 00:25:34 | file | pokes RedBeard |
| 00:25:41 | sjm | as2: it has a larger surface area |
| 00:26:48 | as2 | It doesnt seem to have a mettalised side. |
| 00:27:06 | sjm | as2: The whole underside of the package is a heat slug. |
| 00:27:14 | as2 | Ohhhh. |
| 00:27:59 | jacques | i thought this was the tuxscreen channel |
| 00:28:01 | jacques | ;-D |
| 00:28:14 | as2 | You must be mistaken m8. |
| 00:28:23 | jacques | apparently |
| 00:28:44 | file | somebody help me nudge RedBeard |
| 00:29:06 | jacques | pokes Russ |
| 00:29:10 | jacques | oops |
| 00:29:13 | jacques | wrong r name |
| 00:30:06 | RedBeard | re |
| 00:30:07 | RedBeard | sorry |
| 00:30:25 | RedBeard | file: you're probably right about shipping, where are you? I'm in Utah |
| 00:30:35 | file | RedBeard: Canada :) |
| 00:30:43 | RedBeard | ahh, yeah, that'd cost a bit |
| 00:31:05 | file | that's what I hate... |
| 00:31:24 | sjm | Ha! |
| 00:31:33 | file | crys |
| 00:31:42 | file | stuff costs too much to send to Canada from the US |
| 00:32:14 | RedBeard | they're about 10lb/4.5k each |
| 00:32:18 | RedBeard | kg |
| 00:32:38 | file | uh huh |
| 00:32:48 | prpplague | howdy tux-heads |
| 00:33:21 | sjm | hi prpplague |
| 00:33:21 | file | checks |
| 00:33:28 | file | $22.25 USD to ship |
| 00:33:37 | RedBeard | yeah, that's a bit much |
| 00:33:50 | RedBeard | paid < $5usd each for them |
| 00:33:51 | file | well my PDA cost $10 |
| 00:34:15 | Morn | hi prp |
| 00:34:19 | file | mmm |
| 00:34:24 | file | RedBeard: got anything else? :) |
| 00:34:52 | Morn | fights with compiling Gnome-2.0 for solaris |
| 00:35:01 | file | Morn: Solaris? erm |
| 00:35:09 | Morn | file: yeah |
| 00:35:16 | Morn | I'm a nut |
| 00:35:23 | file | yes, I concur |
| 00:35:43 | Morn | file: but it runs better on an ultrasparc than the alternatives |
| 00:35:50 | file | Morn: I suppose so |
| 00:36:16 | file | is looking for a darn way to be connected to turtle 24/7 |
| 00:36:26 | Morn | turtle? |
| 00:36:32 | file | a null modem cable, a parallel laplink cable |
| 00:36:43 | file | it's my 486 75MHz laptop with no floppy drive |
| 00:38:33 | Morn | while this is compiling I should figure out my PocketPC issue |
| 00:38:47 | file | crys |
| 00:38:48 | file | anybody? |
| 00:40:42 | Russ|werk | what did you want file? |
| 00:40:57 | file | a null modem cable, or parallel laplink cable |
| 00:41:46 | Russ|werk | to do what? |
| 00:41:54 | Russ|werk | you want one? |
| 00:43:53 | file | must, have |
| 00:44:20 | Russ|werk | too lazy to go to rat shack or fry's and buy the stuff to make one? |
| 00:44:39 | file | yes, it's in another town - I'm Canadian and don't have Fry's |
| 00:44:53 | Russ|werk | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2020838901 |
| 00:45:01 | Russ|werk | (buy it now, $6.75) |
| 00:45:52 | jacques | any rpm experts here? |
| 00:46:07 | jacques | how do you get rpm to give a list of all installed packages ? |
| 00:46:10 | file | only ships to the US |
| 00:46:27 | Russ|werk | you could probably persuade them |
| 00:46:59 | sjm | jacques: rpm -qa |
| 00:47:03 | file | haha, you'd be surprised |
| 00:47:13 | file | usually says: it's too much of a hassle for such a small item |
| 00:47:21 | prpplague | jacques: rpm -qa |
| 00:47:44 | prpplague | file: get to work - http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=191&type=store |
| 00:48:14 | file | uh huh |
| 00:48:21 | file | I have no credit card |
| 00:48:28 | jacques | thanks prpplague :-) |
| 00:48:38 | jacques | and sjm thanks |
| 00:50:11 | prpplague | jacques: sjm got there first |
| 00:51:13 | Morn | any pocketpc users here? |
| 00:52:04 | prpplague | Morn: that would imply we use m$, lol |
| 00:52:14 | Morn | well, it was a stretch, but... |
| 00:53:24 | Morn | this should be an easy question though |
| 00:53:29 | Morn | I just can't figure it out |
| 01:02:00 | Russ|werk | thats for that profet tip |
| 01:05:48 | Ailhaz | PocketPC is supposed to be magic |
| 01:06:08 | Ailhaz | you cradle the handheld and everything magically synchronizes |
| 01:06:18 | Ailhaz | windows doesn't even bother to tell you |
| 01:06:25 | Ailhaz | or was that old versions of wince that did that |
| 01:06:26 | Morn | Ailhaz: grin |
| 01:06:38 | Morn | my trouble is creating a link |
| 01:06:47 | Ailhaz | they used to even market that "feature" |
| 01:06:48 | Morn | so I can pass java the right classpath |
| 01:06:55 | Ailhaz | saying that Palm handhelds "can't" do it |
| 01:07:15 | Ailhaz | palm handhelds could do it, the DSR line goes high when you cradle a palm, but they don't wanna |
| 01:07:41 | Morn | you can set Activesync to not auto sync as well |
| 01:07:53 | Morn | just by default it is set automatically |
| 01:09:31 | Ailhaz | *nod* |
| 01:10:02 | Morn | solaris hates me tonight |
| 01:10:06 | Ailhaz | I've used wince exactly twice |
| 01:10:27 | Ailhaz | the combined time i used it comes to about 15 minutes |
| 01:10:40 | Ailhaz | well, not counting the wince 2.0 or whatever it is on this mips handheld i gave up on |
| 01:10:44 | Morn | I think to have a good opinion about something you need experience using it |
| 01:10:47 | Ailhaz | but i never synced it |
| 01:11:03 | Ailhaz | Morn: I found the concepts repulsive |
| 01:11:23 | Morn | such as? |
| 01:11:37 | Morn | I have yet to find a OS repulsive |
| 01:11:44 | Morn | frustrating, but not repulsive |
| 01:11:47 | Ailhaz | a win95-alike interface has no place on a screen that small |
| 01:12:10 | Ailhaz | some programs have a close button, some programs have an "ok" button, some programs you aparantly can't exit |
| 01:12:30 | Morn | and X does? |
| 01:12:37 | Ailhaz | no |
| 01:12:43 | Morn | I find X less userfiendly on a device this size |
| 01:12:49 | Ailhaz | but you're thinking of X in the wrong terms, anyway |
| 01:12:59 | RedBeard | Morn: I think that's more an issue of the WM than X |
| 01:13:05 | Morn | Pocket PC 2002 uses a more XP like interface |
| 01:13:11 | Ailhaz | window wrappings, icons, buttons, task bars, that's a window manager |
| 01:13:16 | Morn | I use both Opie and PocketPC on it |
| 01:13:21 | RedBeard | the right WM could work fine, but most WM I've seen on the desktop would suck on that small a screen |
| 01:13:22 | Morn | I think both work well |
| 01:13:26 | Ailhaz | without a window manager, you have no user interface at all |
| 01:13:34 | Ailhaz | but the window manager can be as much or as little as you like |
| 01:13:56 | Ailhaz | I've spent about an hour with XP. it's so marshmallowey. |
| 01:14:12 | Ailhaz | playsk00l themed UI |
| 01:14:22 | RedBeard | Teletubby |
| 01:14:27 | Ailhaz | which i guess is appropriate for the intended audience |
| 01:14:54 | Ailhaz | Morn: have you used PalmOS? |
| 01:15:06 | Morn | Ailhaz: since the original PalmPilot |
| 01:15:16 | Morn | and the MagicCap devices before that |
| 01:15:36 | Ailhaz | Morn: i think PalmOS is a good example of an appropriate UI |
| 01:15:44 | Ailhaz | for a device that small, with those interface options |
| 01:15:52 | Morn | For a screen that is 160x160 pixels yes |
| 01:16:02 | Morn | but the iPAQ has a larger screen |
| 01:16:18 | Ailhaz | i think it could scale easily - does, actually, see the Sony Clie series |
| 01:16:19 | Morn | and the Palm is a true PDA, not a small computer |
| 01:16:32 | Ailhaz | but how much do you honestly need in your pocket? |
| 01:16:50 | Morn | Ailhaz: I use my PocketPC as a moblie computer |
| 01:16:51 | jacques | i want a cray in my pocket |
| 01:16:56 | Ailhaz | the palm is successful because the original designers first defined what they think people actually need, and stuck with it |
| 01:17:16 | Morn | Jeff Hawkings is a genius, I don't argue that |
| 01:17:37 | Morn | Hence, I own a Visor Prism now |
| 01:17:38 | Ailhaz | they wanted it to fit in a shirt pocket, run forever on minimal consumer battery power, and perform most of the functions of a dead tree day planner |
| 01:17:38 | jacques | arg when are ppl gonna stop confusing X windows with a window manager |
| 01:17:59 | Morn | jacques: I appologize, I refer to them interchagably |
| 01:18:01 | Ailhaz | jacques: long after X is dead |
| 01:18:06 | jacques | heh |
| 01:18:08 | jacques | :-) |
| 01:18:28 | Ailhaz | and i don't think X will die until about 6 years after something like Berlin becomes desirable |
| 01:18:44 | Morn | Ailhaz : But, *I* want more from my handheld than that |
| 01:18:44 | Ailhaz | and to do that, Berlin or whatever would have to also function as an xserver and wm |
| 01:18:52 | Morn | so I also own a iPAQ |
| 01:19:06 | Morn | I think it is really short sighted to ignore the other uses |
| 01:19:26 | Ailhaz | Morn: so what do you want from it? |
| 01:19:56 | Morn | I want something I can use like a smaller laptop |
| 01:20:02 | Morn | I can surf the web |
| 01:20:06 | Morn | I can edit documents |
| 01:20:14 | Morn | I can ssh |
| 01:20:18 | Morn | I can ... |
| 01:20:33 | Morn | I put a wireless connector in and do things from around the house |
| 01:20:35 | Ailhaz | oddly, aside maybe from editing documents, those are the only things the zaurus does well |
| 01:21:32 | Morn | I'm also writing an interface to work with my cell phone on the iPAQ |
| 01:21:53 | Morn | I have a cable to connect the cell phone to the iPAQ and I can use it check email or surf via the cell phone |
| 01:22:02 | jacques | what does the zaurus use for a browser? |
| 01:22:14 | Morn | it uses opera I think |
| 01:22:25 | Ailhaz | jacques: Opera |
| 01:22:27 | Morn | and konq embedded runs on opie |
| 01:24:03 | Morn | I should see if konq will work on the tuxscreen |
| 01:25:19 | Ailhaz | that's a good question - I don't know if anyone has tried to build qt/e against uclibc |
| 01:25:33 | Morn | someone said it didn't work |
| 01:25:39 | Morn | I just installed the ipaq packages |
| 01:25:44 | Morn | with a normal libc |
| 01:25:46 | Morn | that runs |
| 01:26:20 | Morn | since I'm running off a nfs mount, saving space on the flash isn't an issue |
| 01:26:44 | Morn | I think it will be more stable though after I can use the full 32meg sodimm I have in it |
| 01:26:52 | Ailhaz | i could run over nfs, but network activity has interesting side effects in parts of my house |
| 01:27:09 | Ailhaz | due to my "oh my god, that's not supposed to work" type physical layer |
| 01:27:32 | Ailhaz | yeah, ram will help a lot |
| 01:28:05 | Morn | but basic opie stuff runs now |
| 01:28:23 | Morn | and finally my roommate believes it really is a computer and not a piece of junk |
| 01:28:35 | Ailhaz | I've got a 64m CF card i could use |
| 01:28:40 | Morn | some people don't believe without a pretty interface it really is something |
| 01:28:42 | Ailhaz | I ran familiar on it for a while but got sick of it |
| 01:28:44 | Ailhaz | really sick of it |
| 01:28:53 | Morn | I have a familiar base |
| 01:28:58 | Morn | and then opie on top of it |
| 01:29:55 | jacques | my main problem right now is the OOM Killer |
| 01:30:05 | jacques | it's killing things once free RAM gets to 4.5MB |
| 01:30:21 | jacques | and I only have 16MB... |
| 01:31:07 | Morn | for some reason even with 8 megs of memory being used as cache |
| 01:31:11 | Morn | it starts killing things |
| 01:31:14 | Morn | that seems a little odd |
| 01:32:57 | Ailhaz | jacques: you're supposed to be able to adjust that |
| 01:33:19 | Ailhaz | but I've never heard of it working properly |
| 01:33:34 | jacques | Ailhaz: I wish I know how :-( I have been unable to get answers so far |
| 01:34:05 | Ailhaz | both of the available VMs in linux 2.4 are freakshows, imho. |
| 01:34:09 | jacques | it's really limiting me right now |
| 01:34:28 | jacques | i cant get more than about 2 rxvt's and a wm in X before it starts killing stuff |
| 01:34:43 | Ailhaz | I don't program, but every programmer I know over 40 is aghast that anyone would be making the same mistakes that were being made in the 70's |
| 01:34:47 | jacques | i was playing with links (text browser) and it kept getting killed |
| 01:35:35 | Ailhaz | that's pretty sad |
| 01:35:37 | Ailhaz | I haven't seen that one |
| 01:35:41 | Ailhaz | that's with which kernel? |
| 01:36:54 | jacques | current buildroot 2.4.18-rmk2-tux1 |
| 01:42:02 | Ailhaz | interesting |
| 03:14:53 | | jacques was last seen on #handhelds.org 1 hours, 4 minutes and 47 seconds ago, saying: 8 would be terrible [Tue Apr 30 03:10:06 2002] |
| 03:14:53 | TomW | ibot, seen jacques fontenot |
| 03:15:08 | | fontenot was last seen on #tuxscreen 4 hours, 9 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: what the hell is going on? [Tue Apr 30 00:05:48 2002] |
| 03:15:08 | TomW | ibot, seen fontenot |
| 03:15:22 | TomW | jacques: ok, this is your current name. :-) |
| 03:16:45 | jacques | TomW: hi :-) |
| 03:17:23 | jacques | im thinking about makeing my next project figuring out what is going on with the OOM Killer |
| 03:22:08 | jacques | TomW: what's new? |
| 03:29:24 | jacques | any microwindows or picogui developers here? |
| 03:40:29 | as2 | Id take that as a 'no'. |
| 03:40:51 | jacques | heh me too |
| 03:41:07 | as2 | The channel was more active earlier. |
| 03:42:00 | jacques | yeh ive missed the active times the last couple of days |
| 03:42:30 | as2 | And the topic has gone bannanas. |
| 03:43:10 | jacques | arg t's reverted |
| 03:43:11 | as2 | Should say 200 left and no jtag. |
| 03:43:15 | jacques | exactly |
| 03:43:21 | jacques | and should have my tinyx plug |
| 03:44:24 | jacques | hmm for some reason i can edit the topic from home but not now from work |
| 03:45:00 | as2 | Though chanserve or normally? |
| 03:45:26 | as2 | Err, through. |
| 03:45:39 | jacques | from home I could just type in te topic box in xchat |
| 03:46:06 | as2 | Maybe a server desync. |
| 03:47:11 | sjm | as2: you might want to get rid of the fake.hmtl link... |
| 03:47:23 | as2 | If you want to give me the tinyx path URL, I'll add it. |
| 03:47:43 | as2 | Will do. |
| 03:48:02 | jacques | as2: it just said: tinyx in latest buildroot; ts even works! |
| 03:48:17 | as2 | Ok. |
| 03:49:30 | jacques | as2: thank :-) |
| 03:49:56 | as2 | Welcome. |
| 03:50:04 | spd_racer911 | hola |
| 03:50:52 | jacques | hi spd_racer911 |
| 03:51:05 | spd_racer911 | hi jacques |
| 03:51:37 | spd_racer911 | I now have sound (noises?) from the ucb1200 ! ...it helps to give the audio output section 3.3V ! |
| 03:52:33 | jacques | lol that's great! |
| 03:52:34 | spd_racer911 | jackques and TomW: nice work with tinyx |
| 03:52:40 | jacques | thanks :-) |
| 03:52:47 | TomW | tnx |
| 03:53:01 | jacques | spd_racer911: how did you do the sound mod - shanip2? make your own boards? |
| 03:54:29 | spd_racer911 | I just added the few connections from the shanip3 schematic for the headphone jack...I plan on building a board maybe...I need to evaluate the litthe DAC first..it's only 4 bits! |
| 03:55:03 | as2 | Eeep, 4 bits? |
| 03:55:25 | jacques | spd_racer911: shanip3 ? |
| 03:55:25 | as2 | How fast can it be run at? |
| 03:56:02 | spd_racer911 | I just found the dillo browser...runs onto of GTK+ ... http://dillo.sourceforge.net/ |
| 03:56:15 | spd_racer911 | ...ontop of GTK+ |
| 03:56:27 | jacques | spd_racer911: yeah it's on my list to build against uclibc |
| 03:56:28 | spd_racer911 | shanip3 schematics are on the Wiki |
| 03:56:35 | jacques | spd_racer911: I already have gtk+ |
| 03:56:44 | spd_racer911 | sweet |
| 03:56:54 | spd_racer911 | I would love to have dillo running |
| 03:57:08 | spd_racer911 | anything for a web browser on the Tuxscreen |
| 03:57:17 | jacques | spd_racer911: well my main problem right now is RAM |
| 03:57:53 | jacques | spd_racer911: I'm afraid a 16MB tux would not be able to run dillo, because the OOM Killer is currently insane - reaping while 4.5MB free |
| 03:57:57 | spd_racer911 | how much ram would dillo need ? I thought I read somewhere it would be around 4 Meg with tinyx, GTK+, and dillo |
| 03:58:15 | jacques | spd_racer911: that sounds like storage space, not RAM |
| 03:58:35 | spd_racer911 | it needs 16+ Meg of ram ? |
| 03:58:51 | jacques | TomW: do you have a bootldr you feel like sending me - i forgot to ask before |
| 03:59:17 | jacques | spd_racer911: well X needs some, and with OOM killer, we only have 11.5MB usable, 2 of that goes to kernel... |
| 03:59:55 | spd_racer911 | jacques: what is OOM ? Out of Memory ? |
| 04:00:10 | jacques | spd_racer911: I was playing with links on the tux (text based browser) and it kept getting killed by OOM |
| 04:00:35 | jacques | spd_racer911: it's the part of the kernel that kills processes when the system is out of memory, but it's not working right |
| 04:01:18 | spd_racer911 | jacques: sounds like we need TomW's memory upgrade ! |
| 04:01:39 | jacques | spd_racer911: well we need to get the kernel working right - current OOM behavior is insane |
| 04:03:02 | spd_racer911 | jacques: I would agree...I spent the weekend in the sound and ucb1x00 driver code...fun fun...I am becoming dangerous as a software <hacker> guy |
| 04:03:10 | TomW | heh, I am batting 2 for 3 on doing the upgrade. I did one of mine and one for BZFlag that went okay. I have another that I screwed up somehow, I cannot erase one of the Flash chips (half of the 32 bit bus is working, the ohter half is not). This is why tinyx development must cease here... |
| 04:04:25 | spd_racer911 | TomW: you mean tinyx development will stop while you work on the dead Tux ? :-) |
| 04:05:41 | TomW | ... and the DTMF RF Transciever, the Time Clock, the Check Writer, the Tux IDE interface, the... :-/ |
| 04:05:41 | spd_racer911 | as2: I am not sure how fast the DAC on the UCB1200 will run...there are some notes in the mail archives...some wierd freqs. I know one is around 8K though |
| 04:06:41 | spd_racer911 | TomW: sounds like those are projects that allow you to earn a living...so no complaints here...keep up the good work! |
| 04:06:49 | jacques | looks like I am going to try the -aa patches to the kernel |
| 04:07:07 | jacques | for all i know they may not even apply/work with the arm kernel, but i gotta try |
| 04:07:25 | spd_racer911 | jacques: -aa patches ? |
| 04:08:38 | jacques | spd_racer911: yeh andrea archangeli (sp) |
| 04:09:01 | spd_racer911 | I have to go figure out why my LCD is not working...fixed the audio..now it's the LCD...probably got the connector offset or something? |
| 04:09:16 | spd_racer911 | jacques: what do the -aa patches do? |
| 04:09:32 | jacques | spd_racer911: well according to ppl on the l-k list, they fix OOM |
| 04:09:39 | as2 | spd, too slow for what I'm thinking of to offset it only being 4 bit. |
| 04:10:00 | spd_racer911 | as2: what were you thinking ? |
| 04:10:37 | as2 | You can compensate for loss of resolution by overclocking the DAC. This method leads eventually to the 1 bit DAC. |
| 04:10:49 | spd_racer911 | as2 : I want streaming stereo...so I need to add a stereo codec to the Tux |
| 04:11:15 | as2 | From what may I ask? |
| 04:11:25 | spd_racer911 | as2: that's interesting...It has been a while since I worked with DAC and ADCs...I look into that |
| 04:12:24 | as2 | To get it to 1bit you have to clock it at multi MHz rates, but for 4 bit the requirements might be a tad more acheivable. |
| 04:12:38 | spd_racer911 | as2: I thought something like streaming audio from a server or maybe MP3s using either a software decoder or a hardware one |
| 04:13:19 | as2 | Software mp3 minimum is around 15mips, so that should easily be possible. |
| 04:13:20 | spd_racer911 | as2: most streaming formats from the internet seem to be proprietary |
| 04:13:47 | as2 | But the download rate of 33.6kbit would rather limit the quality. |
| 04:14:11 | as2 | Yeah, I hate streaming formats. |
| 04:14:21 | jacques | is anyone working on getting the tuxscreen modem working? |
| 04:14:32 | spd_racer911 | as2: I think scanline has streaming MP3s already , using wget and a software MP3 player |
| 04:14:34 | as2 | Id rather spend 5 hours downloading the high quality version for 5 mins of play. |
| 04:15:05 | as2 | But with streaming formats thats not an option I think. |
| 04:15:09 | sjm | spd_racer911: thanks for the dillo link - I just built and ran it (x86/libc6). Looks great! |
| 04:15:24 | spd_racer911 | sjm: no way, on your Tux!!! ?? |
| 04:15:32 | spd_racer911 | for your Tux ?? !! |
| 04:15:46 | spd_racer911 | sorry , x86 !! |
| 04:15:49 | sjm | Errr, no. That's why I said x86/libc6 :) |
| 04:16:20 | spd_racer911 | sorry, I got excited...I know what's in the Tux...had it open, and have studied the ARM arch |
| 04:16:51 | as2 | ARM asm is about as friendly as asm on any system gets. |
| 04:17:06 | spd_racer911 | sjm: anyway, cool, now to get it working with the Tux...can you tell how much ram dillo uses on x86 ? |
| 04:17:20 | as2 | Its past 5am, I'm off to sleep, nite all. |
| 04:17:31 | sjm | sjm 5137 0.9 8.5 5772 4024 pts/2 S 14:18 0:02 dillo |
| 04:17:32 | spd_racer911 | as2: good talking to you |
| 04:17:43 | as2 | L8r. |
| 04:18:50 | spd_racer911 | sjm: looks like 8.5 Meg ? |
| 04:19:26 | jacques | 5772kB |
| 04:19:32 | sjm | 5.7 virtual, 4 resident |
| 04:20:05 | jacques | sjm: what site are you at? anything intensive? |
| 04:20:12 | spd_racer911 | sjm: interesting... I only read about it today at work, I thought it would be smaller |
| 04:20:14 | sjm | yahoo :) |
| 04:20:23 | jacques | if it starts out like that it may grow rater quickly... |
| 04:20:35 | sjm | got a test link ? |
| 04:21:36 | jacques | sjm: just a sec... |
| 04:22:27 | spd_racer911 | sjm: try www.slashdot.org ? |
| 04:22:32 | jacques | sjm: try this: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/04/29/2231227.shtml?tid=120 |
| 04:23:52 | sjm | sjm 5137 1.1 10.5 7444 4916 pts/2 S 14:18 0:07 dillo |
| 04:24:55 | jacques | yeah i was afraid of that |
| 04:25:02 | GoRK | hullo |
| 04:25:03 | jacques | startig to get tight on a 16MB device |
| 04:25:10 | sjm | :( |
| 04:25:21 | jacques | hi GoRK, lon gtime |
| 04:25:29 | jacques | sjm: I still wanna try it tho |
| 04:25:32 | GoRK | yeah lots of stuff going on |
| 04:26:16 | jacques | GoRK: so how's it going? |
| 04:27:53 | spd_racer911 | sjm , jacques: catch you guys later |
| 04:28:08 | sjm | waves |
| 04:28:09 | GoRK | pretty good.. trying to get time to get back to the tuxscreen. i'd like to try to integrate one with this vending machine project im hacking at... happen to know if the UART can do 9600 NRZ with 11 bit packets? (start bit, 8 data + mode bit, stop bit) |
| 04:28:09 | jacques | later spd_racer911 |
| 04:28:36 | jacques | GoRK: I dont know |
| 04:28:50 | jacques | GoRK: we have tinyx in the buildroot now :-) |
| 04:29:19 | GoRK | sweet i'd love to check it out. i understand scanline finished up my picogui driver too |
| 04:29:45 | jacques | yeah I think I heard that |
| 04:31:15 | GoRK | argh thinking about this 11 bit serial garbage is like running a power drill into my brain |
| 04:31:56 | sjm | Ahh.. dillo doesn't do frames... |
| 04:37:39 | jacques | sjm: yeah in some ways it's inferior to links |
| 04:37:58 | bhima | the inferno installer for windows is rather pathetic IMHO. |
| 04:38:05 | bhima | wants more tuxscreens with linux. |
| 04:38:17 | jacques | bhima: you mean the inferno emulator? |
| 04:38:24 | sjm | jacques: currently running at about 11M |
| 04:38:25 | bhima | no, the installer :) |
| 04:38:34 | jacques | sjm: :-\ |
| 04:38:48 | bhima | it seems to just be overly fragile. |
| 04:38:53 | jacques | sjm: links is in buildroot - you should try it - it's pretty sweet |
| 04:38:58 | bhima | in a few minutes I'll comment ont he emulator. |
| 04:39:02 | sjm | I want pictures! |
| 04:39:11 | bhima | is emulating inferno on his mac via virtualpc. |
| 04:39:53 | bhima | oh, this tuxscreen has hot melt glue on the DIMM socket. noeno f my others do. |
| 04:42:27 | jacques | hmm |
| 04:42:35 | jacques | sjm: pictures of what? |
| 04:43:13 | sjm | jacques: web pictures |
| 04:43:23 | sjm | <img src=""> |
| 04:43:35 | jacques | sjm: oooh i understand |
| 04:44:13 | jacques | well here's slashdot in links on the tux anyway: http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/matchbox16.png |
| 04:44:14 | sjm | hehe - busybox.net causes a critical error :) |
| 04:50:06 | Russ | sjm: works fine for me |
| 04:50:36 | Russ | sjm: konq? |
| 04:50:38 | sjm | Russ: using the dillo browser? |
| 04:50:47 | Russ | using mozilla rc1 |
| 04:50:58 | GoRK | mmm stick parity bit? hrm |
| 04:51:05 | Russ | busybox.net works in dillo |
| 04:51:51 | sjm | Russ: I get this: ** CRITICAL **: file bitvec.c: line 48 (a_Bitvec_get_bit): assertion `pos < bvec->len' failed. when opening the main page. |
| 04:52:14 | sjm | Russ: Other pages work fine though. |
| 04:52:21 | Russ | Version: 0.6.4-4 |
| 04:52:24 | Russ | works fine |
| 04:52:29 | Russ | Installed-Size: 404 |
| 04:52:30 | Russ | heh |
| 04:53:11 | GoRK | where could i go to find out more than i ever wanted to know about serial port hacking? |
| 04:53:28 | Russ | GoRK: there isn't much to know |
| 04:54:03 | GoRK | Russ: im trying to make a 16550 talk with 11 bit frames :-/ |
| 04:54:21 | Russ | for IR? |
| 04:54:35 | GoRK | no it's hardwire. for a vending machine |
| 04:54:46 | Russ | oh what fun |
| 04:54:53 | Russ | find a 16550 data sheet? |
| 04:55:23 | Russ | 8 data, 1 parity, one start, one stop |
| 04:55:26 | GoRK | yeah i found one.. but trying to figure out what the differences are between 16550A, 16550, 16550D, etc. is proving a headache |
| 04:55:33 | Russ | or two start and one less than something else |
| 04:55:36 | TomW | GoRK: you can do 11 bit xmission with a 16550. |
| 04:55:46 | GoRK | TomW: can you recieve it too? |
| 04:55:54 | TomW | GoRK: yes. |
| 04:56:17 | TomW | GoRK: there is a trick to it, it is not a "mode" but the way that you use the chip |
| 04:57:07 | GoRK | I'm looking at this stick parity bit in the Line control register. it will stick the parity bit at 1 or 0, but is it a standard 16550 feature? |
| 04:57:10 | TomW | GoRK: it is clumsy, but I have done 11 bit simplex transmision to 8051's (start, 9 bits of data) |
| 04:57:48 | GoRK | TomW: under linux? Did you have to poke in the kernel or is it possible to use an unmodified serial driver? |
| 04:57:50 | TomW | GoRK: you have it, it is the stick parity on transmit. The value of the parity (even/odd) will set the "9th" data bit. |
| 04:58:23 | TomW | GoRK: I did mine via a C program under MSDOS, not under linux. |
| 04:58:39 | TomW | GoRK: you will have to build your own driver to do this stuff. |
| 04:58:44 | GoRK | TomW: erg, well serial.c here I come :) |
| 04:58:45 | bhima | you have a vending machine with a nearly-RS-232 interface? |
| 04:59:39 | GoRK | bhima: almost all vending machines use an interface called MDB - multidrop bus - developed by coca cola. it's 9600 NRZ |
| 04:59:44 | TomW | GoRK: To recieve 9 bit, you look at the parity error bit of the UART, then count the bits in the 8 bit byte you just got to see what the value of the 9th bit would be based on the setting of the Parity Error Flag. |
| 04:59:53 | GoRK | it's actually closer to rs485 i think |
| 05:00:38 | TomW | GoRK: Another solution: AT89C2051, it is an 8051 derivative in a 20 pin IC package, it contains 2K of Flash program memory and 128 bytes of RAM. |
| 05:01:02 | GoRK | TomW: ok, let's say i have the parity bit stuck on 0.. if the 9th bit comes over as 1, the parity error register will light up, right? |
| 05:01:07 | bhima | gork: what info can you get out of it? I think I wanna use this for a vending machine I have :) |
| 05:01:26 | TomW | GoRK: use the built in uart of the '2051 to do the 9 bit stuff, then write a software uart to communicate with the Tux / PC. |
| 05:02:00 | TomW | GoRK: the AT89C2051 is a one chip solution. |
| 05:02:22 | GoRK | TomW: hmm not a bad idea... since i have to build a board to interface with the MDB lines anyway, i might as well. thanks for the pointer |
| 05:03:50 | jacques | GoRK: 16550A has a working fifo |
| 05:03:57 | GoRK | bhima: you can get pretty much anything you want out of it, the problem is that unless you are the MDB master device (ie the vending machine controller) you can't send any other devices commands - you just have to wait for the controller to poll you as a slave device. Of course you can see all the traffic going by you on the bus, so you can 'sniff' out a good amount of info |
| 05:05:11 | bhima | gork: gotcha. can you figure out how much product is there, temperature, if it's out? |
| 05:05:24 | GoRK | bhima: well that's not strictly true.. if you emulate a cashless payment mdb slave device, you can ask the vending machine controller mdb master device to instruct the coin changer to give a refund |
| 05:06:04 | bhima | gork: ooh. that would be evil. |
| 05:06:16 | GoRK | temp sensors are usually wired directly to the vending controller. that data's not going to be available on MDB unless you have some really spiffy vending machine with refrigeration and temp sensors that talk mdb |
| 05:06:27 | sjm | GoRK: I have found this useful in the past: http://www.easysw.com/~mike/serial/serial.html |
| 05:06:54 | bhima | where is the connecotr for this usually located? |
| 05:07:34 | GoRK | bhima: it's in line. it's a serial bus that connects the vending controller to the coin changer and paper money acceptor |
| 05:07:54 | GoRK | bhima: the usual connectors are 6 wire molex |
| 05:08:09 | bhima | sounds like it might be a good job for a TINI. |
| 05:08:14 | GoRK | to interface to it, you have to do optical isolation |
| 05:08:29 | GoRK | bhima: hang on ill get you a schematic |
| 05:09:31 | bhima | oh, pfshh. isolation is for wimps. |
| 05:09:40 | GoRK | sjm: thanks. that looks helpful. i shall refer to it often :) |
| 05:09:44 | bhima | a couple hundred volts never hurt anybody. |
| 05:10:04 | GoRK | bhima: http://www.bonusdata.ch/Products/RS232_MDB/1-1-1.pdf |
| 05:10:20 | bhima | that's a great URL. |
| 05:10:44 | GoRK | kudos to the swiss |
| 05:11:23 | jacques | arg there goes mt dsl |
| 05:11:27 | jacques | my dsl |
| 05:13:37 | bhima | "Your hard disk has no more space available for application memory. Quit some applications immediately, or your computer will have problems." |
| 05:13:44 | bhima | with "Cancel" and "OK" as buttons. |
| 05:13:50 | bhima | wonders which one he should choose. |
| 05:14:13 | GoRK | "Cancel" will make the problem go away faster :) |
| 05:14:43 | bhima | I quit the app that was doing random accesses ona 500MB database. |
| 05:15:59 | bhima | mmm, pizza. |
| 05:16:03 | bhima | bbiab. |
| 05:38:40 | GoRK | ooh this will work in userspace (maybe) |
| 05:39:10 | sjm | should |
| 05:40:08 | GoRK | well it seems in 1997, they put in support for CMSPAR/PARODD, but i can't find the ioctl. i guess i can just add one. at least all the hard part of the code is done |
| 05:42:20 | sjm | options.c_cflag |= PARODD ; tcsetattr(fd,TCSANOW,&options); ??? |
| 05:42:26 | GoRK | if i put in an ioctl to stick the parity bit at 1 or 0, and switch on parity, i should be able to send without a problem. recieving will work automgically too since TTY_PARITY gets raised on a parity error |
| 05:43:45 | sjm | er, probably &= not |= ... |
| 05:45:17 | sjm | I guess it depends on the order in which you do things. |
| 05:45:59 | GoRK | ah this will all work so beautifully. why do people have such a hard time with this? |
| 05:46:01 | GoRK | heh |
| 05:47:56 | GoRK | well at least im confidant that i can build the circut now and ill actually be able to talk to it |
| 06:02:58 | TomW | ok, found the problem with the other 32Meg Tux CPU board.. |
| 06:03:33 | TomW | That makes 3 for 3 on the 64Meg upgrades, heh. |
| 06:15:37 | jacques | TomW: what was the problem?? |
| 06:21:12 | nelson | Hey guys. I'm just flashing with tinyx. Woo-hoo! I should be sleeping, but this is more exciting than sleep any day! |
| 06:23:29 | jacques | nelson: heh :-D |
| 06:27:16 | TomW | jacques: broken trace on DQ17 |
| 06:27:19 | BZFlag | TomW: any insight on the 64M sodimm? |
| 06:27:29 | TomW | BZFlag: no. |
| 06:27:32 | BZFlag | I cookedd something on the 64M unit you sent me. |
| 06:27:57 | BZFlag | put in a pcmcia card, and there were solder drips hanging down that touched the card. |
| 06:28:02 | TomW | BZFlag: ?? probing inside with solderwick? |
| 06:28:17 | BZFlag | I pulled the power as soon as I smelled the smoke. |
| 06:28:34 | BZFlag | can't find anything that's fried, but I have not tried the top slot again. |
| 06:28:45 | TomW | Does the unit run? |
| 06:28:50 | BZFlag | yes |
| 06:29:01 | TomW | Still has 64Meg? |
| 06:29:06 | BZFlag | but you might wanna check the other units for solder. ;-) |
| 06:29:11 | TomW | Still has 64Meg? |
| 06:29:24 | BZFlag | yeah, unit, display, memory, bottom slot, etc all fine. |
| 06:29:38 | TomW | then it was the PCMCIA card that smoked. |
| 06:29:48 | BZFlag | nope. card is fine too. |
| 06:29:56 | TomW | Did you put it into a +5v pcmcia slot? |
| 06:30:05 | BZFlag | no. 3.3v card |
| 06:30:29 | TomW | 5volt or 3.3 volt slot, what was the voltage applied to the slot, not the card. |
| 06:30:48 | BZFlag | slots on my 64M unit are unmodified 3.3v |
| 06:32:12 | BZFlag | I put in a cio10t card in a carrier card, so it waas actually shorting on the carrier. |
| 06:33:48 | TomW | ok, I think I understand what could have happened. But there should not have been any "smoke" from this: there is one address line that is jumper in the area of the pcmcia slot. Soldering the wire in, *might*, *misht* leave a slightly raised "bump" on the land, doubtful, but never assume. |
| 06:33:53 | BZFlag | I'll keep you posted if I find anything that got cooked. something did I could definitely smell the "magic smoke" |
| 06:33:58 | nelson | kewl. kewl, kewl, kewl, kewl. |
| 06:34:09 | nelson | Did I say that X on my tuX was kewl? |
| 06:34:16 | jacques | heh i can tell nelson has not found the problems with tinyx yet |
| 06:34:29 | jacques | oh well I'll let him ejoy it for now :-) |
| 06:34:36 | BZFlag | anyone fixed the palette issue? |
| 06:34:50 | jacques | BZFlag: that's an app-specific issue AFAIK |
| 06:34:51 | BZFlag | telnet localhost then startx works fine. ;-) |
| 06:34:52 | TomW | BZFlag: there is nothing that I did that could cause "smoke" or a "small" if shorted. It must have been something else, tim. |
| 06:35:09 | nelson | jacques: oh, like the fact that dillo can't find the fonts it wants?? |
| 06:35:14 | BZFlag | jacques: no, I mean it being blue if started from the console. |
| 06:35:28 | jacques | BZFlag: where you burning pop-tarts at the same time? |
| 06:35:33 | BZFlag | no. |
| 06:35:54 | jacques | BZFlag: nope, I dont have any further info on the blue screen issue yet - I am concentrating on the OOM Killer issue |
| 06:35:57 | TomW | jacques: yeah, it must be that the tinyx and the console are fighting for ownership of the LCD driver. |
| 06:36:18 | jacques | TomW: and somehow tinyx only sinw the blue channel? |
| 06:36:27 | jacques | sinw==wins |
| 06:36:55 | TomW | not blue, I have seen other colors. |
| 06:37:04 | jacques | TomW: wow really? nobody told me that |
| 06:37:09 | BZFlag | there are two hanging bits of solder inside the pcmcia slot area. |
| 06:37:17 | TomW | jacques: yes, I told you that two days ago. |
| 06:37:20 | nelson | jacques: I see other colors. |
| 06:37:29 | jacques | TomW: was i awake? |
| 06:37:31 | pmisfit | is back (gone 55:50:53) |
| 06:37:36 | BZFlag | one is like 1/2" in and 3/8" from the front. |
| 06:37:36 | TomW | jacques: probably not. |
| 06:37:42 | jacques | nelson: what other colors? |
| 06:38:06 | nelson | jacques: I've got green on mine, when I try to run pygps on it, and it shoves the load average ujp. |
| 06:38:18 | BZFlag | the other is like 2" in and 1/8 towards the back from the center of the slot. |
| 06:38:37 | jacques | nelson: the problem is - if you start the X server from the tuxscreen console, the screen is all blue (or apparently some other color) |
| 06:38:50 | nelson | jacques: silly question: how do I make it so that dillo can get the fonts it needs to run? |
| 06:38:54 | jacques | nelson: how did you start tinyx? |
| 06:39:01 | nelson | jacques: via serial console |
| 06:39:30 | jacques | nelson: hmm yo uwould have to install the fonts where the x server could get to them, and configure it - possibly with xset |
| 06:39:34 | TomW | BZFlag: Ok, 'level' that solder bump and that should avoid future problems. |
| 06:39:35 | BZFlag | my pcmcia carrier now has a scratch on it along the left side. |
| 06:40:00 | BZFlag | TomW: yeah, I was planning on it. I'm just letting you know to watch for it so we don't smoke any more systems. |
| 06:40:02 | TomW | BZFlag: look at the top of the board, see where the jumper are? |
| 06:40:03 | jacques | nelson: we have not yet tried using a font server with the tux/tinyx |
| 06:40:23 | nelson | jacques: so basically, all you get is "fixed". |
| 06:40:25 | BZFlag | TomW: I don't have it open, but I can open it if you like. |
| 06:40:31 | pmisfit | hmm. is tinyx dependent on zlib? |
| 06:40:34 | jacques | nelson: starting xserver from serial console or telnet works fine, it's just starting from console that has problems |
| 06:40:42 | jacques | pmisfit: yes but it's staticaly linked |
| 06:40:45 | TomW | There is only one jumper that possibly could cause a problem in the pcmci area. Only one. |
| 06:41:07 | BZFlag | I'll open it. there are two blobs though. |
| 06:41:17 | pmisfit | jacques: tinyx failed using defaults. but then i did make zlib; make tinyx and all was well. |
| 06:41:19 | TomW | BZFlag: I don't know how / what you see. but I will keep that in mind in the future, thanks. |
| 06:41:25 | nelson | jacques: I'll try that. |
| 06:42:28 | jacques | pmisfit: maybe the tinyx.mk has changed again - that used to work |
| 06:42:41 | pmisfit | jacques: weird because it looks like tinyx.mk already has the dependency there.... |
| 06:43:15 | jacques | nelson: if you run a xlsfonts against the tinyx server you will see what you get |
| 06:44:05 | TomW | jacques: yes, it changed late last night, early this morning. Anyone not having the cvs image from this afternoon will have various problems. The last commit was abt 4PM EST. |
| 06:44:06 | jacques | if my dsl was u pI would do it and show you - I dont remember which fonts are builtin |
| 06:44:24 | jacques | TomW: good to know |
| 06:44:26 | nelson | jacques: yes, when I run startx from the console, I get only blue. |
| 06:44:41 | jacques | nelson: :-( we are working on that one but kinda stumped |
| 06:45:30 | pmisfit | anyone tried launching startx from the console via a daemon, or something that first detaches from controlling tty? |
| 06:45:54 | TomW | nelson: I found that when I set the colors of rxvt to a black background and white foreground, then run "startx", note the colors, then hit ctrl-alt-backspace, then rerun startx, I would get differnet colors. |
| 06:46:52 | jacques | pmisfit: nope has not tried that - nohup ? |
| 06:47:08 | pmisfit | exactly. |
| 06:47:21 | pmisfit | checks to see if nohup is in busybox |
| 06:47:45 | BZFlag | TomW: ok, disassembled. |
| 06:48:12 | BZFlag | the jumper by ic505 is the one I suspect that got shorted. |
| 06:48:21 | TomW | jacques: when you run it via the IR KBD, shut tinyx down with ctrl-alt-backsapce, then rerun tinyx. Keep doing that, it will keep changing colors on the docking bar and the title bar of rxvt. |
| 06:48:41 | BZFlag | the jumper by ic201 is also poking through. |
| 06:48:45 | pmisfit | hmm looks like nohup is NOT in busybox. |
| 06:48:56 | nelson | cool. When I run xcalibrate on my ipaq displaying on my tux, it displays, but tries to read the ipaq's touchscreen. |
| 06:49:32 | nelson | Okay, it's 3-fucking-o'clock. I've seen X run on my tuX, now I've got to get to bed. |
| 06:49:38 | TomW | BZFlag: nope, that jumper is not in the pcmcia area, it is between the SODIMM socket and the PCMCIA plastic guide. Look very carefully, it is almost under the PCMCIA plastic Guide Rail. |
| 06:49:40 | BZFlag | TomW: very nice job on the solder work by the way. |
| 06:49:56 | BZFlag | the ram chips look almost like factory work. slick. |
| 06:49:59 | nelson | Nice job with the tinyx, everybody.... |
| 06:49:59 | TomW | BZFlag: tnx, we aim to please. |
| 06:50:22 | jacques | nelson: later |
| 06:50:35 | TomW | BZFlag: years of practice... |
| 06:51:01 | BZFlag | huh? the jumper by ic505 and the one on ic201 are both in the pcmcia area. |
| 06:51:31 | jacques | pmisfit: apparently nohup is sometimes a shell builtin |
| 06:51:43 | jacques | pmisfit: it's also part of sh-utils |
| 06:51:49 | TomW | jacques: if you ctrl-alt-bs + startx enough times, the colors will stop changing. |
| 06:52:41 | jacques | i wonder if there's a way to tell x which tty to use or something |
| 06:52:53 | BZFlag | jacques: Xfbdev tty05 |
| 06:53:16 | TomW | BZFlag: I stand corrected, yes, I forgot abt IC201's jumper. |
| 06:53:39 | TomW | BZFlag: just wick them flat. |
| 06:54:05 | BZFlag | yeah, that's what I planned to do. looking for any signs of fried components now. |
| 06:54:36 | jacques | BZFlag: hmmmmmm |
| 06:54:50 | pmisfit | ok, i gotta get back to hardware hell, and still gnawing on init.c. |
| 06:55:03 | pmisfit | if i'm still awake in a few hours i'll play with x some more. |
| 06:55:22 | pmisfit | is away: back to the grind... |
| 06:55:40 | TomW | jacques: Ok, I have 4 tuxes running now: two 64Meg and two 16Meg units. Whee! |
| 06:56:55 | BZFlag | TomW: no signs of any cookage. what do you think would be most likely to fry if the jumper by ic505 were grounded? |
| 06:58:45 | BZFlag | it was deffinitely that jumper that shorted. on closer inspection I can see two scratches on the pcmcia carrier. one for each jumper. |
| 06:59:19 | BZFlag | the jumper by ic201 was over a decal when the card was fully inserted, which is how it was when I powered it on. |
| 06:59:29 | TomW | BZFlag: NOTHING. That line is an address line, the current in that line is limited to a few milliamps by the StrongArm processor. |
| 06:59:34 | jacques | TomW: how nice for you :-D |
| 07:00:40 | TomW | BZFlag: All jumpers involve address lines, those lines are current limited by the StrongARM processor. If you short them to gnd / vdd, all you would get out of them is 2..5 milliamps. |
| 07:01:12 | TomW | jacques: I'll have to get another one running, just to keep up with the Fontenot's. |
| 07:01:24 | TomW | (Jones ;) |
| 07:01:26 | BZFlag | hmm.. new theory? the ic505 jumper scratched through the decal on the carrier. perhaps the smell was just a teeny bit of left over adhesive frying. |
| 07:01:57 | jacques | TomW: well I have 3 of 4 - but I was going to do the 4th tonight :-) |
| 07:02:07 | TomW | BZFlag: 5 milliamps of current will only kill bacteria, It won't "fry" anything else. ;-) |
| 07:02:58 | jacques | i also need to buy some more before BZFlag runs out - I have the feeling things will accelerate when number gets below 100 |
| 07:02:59 | TomW | BZFlag: it is impossible to "fry" an 6mil circuit trace carrying 5 millamps of current. |
| 07:03:00 | BZFlag | well at any rate. the phone appears to be stable, so I'm not worried. I'll wick down the two points and try the upper card slot sometime. I only use one slot on the system anyway, so I'm pleased as punch to have a 64M phone. ;-) |
| 07:03:23 | jacques | but I wanted JTAG :-\ |
| 07:03:48 | TomW | BZFlag: .. now to get that 9mm 2 inch notebook drive mounted in there and wired up to J602... |
| 07:03:49 | BZFlag | jacques: I'm placing another order with aleph1 so I should have more jtag dongles soon. |
| 07:03:56 | jacques | studies for his ham test while waiting for a database to load. |
| 07:04:05 | jacques | BZFlag: coool!! |
| 07:04:06 | BZFlag | unless someone else wants to build some up and sell em? |
| 07:04:26 | BZFlag | TomW: that would rock! hack on! |
| 07:04:43 | TomW | jacques: all you need are two Cracker Jacks IPC proof of purchase and you can get your Ham ticket.. :-( |
| 07:05:15 | jacques | TomW: oh no, you aren't one of those "everyone should learn code" ppl are you? :-D |
| 07:06:13 | jacques | TomW: have you had problems with rogue hams? |
| 07:06:37 | TomW | jacques: Callsign here is WN3L, I used to do VE Testing before they changed everything 1-2 years ago, that is when I quit doing the testing... Not a hard head, just that I worked hard for my Extra and now they go and practically give it away.. |
| 07:07:48 | jacques | TomW: yeah, they need new blood apparently |
| 07:08:05 | TomW | jacques: problems are everywhere in todays' society. Try taking a walk around SanFran early in the morning.. |
| 07:08:11 | jacques | i have been wantig to get my license for > 10 years but never got around to it |
| 07:08:35 | jacques | they have changed the question pool twice since I got my book |
| 07:08:47 | TomW | "round tuits" $10, contact tom@openhardware.net with your shipping info and ... |
| 07:08:51 | jacques | lol |
| 07:09:31 | jacques | TomW: that's a very short callsign |
| 07:10:56 | TomW | yup, vanity call. I spent $70 per 10 years to have the call of my choice. I used to be KE3DP before they started tha vanity program again, I always wanted a Whiskey call (W) and since I was Extra, I got a short one. |
| 07:11:59 | TomW | jacques: busy nite, we got 30 people lurking. |
| 07:12:46 | TomW | got to shut X down, the darned KDE is screwed. brb. |
| 07:13:39 | jacques | TomW: wb |
| 07:14:18 | TomW | heh, X + KDE can do strange things when you run them for several weeks at a time. |
| 07:14:39 | TomW | ... and use them heavily. |
| 07:15:33 | TomW | sometimes running Netscape for a few minutes of heavy use can kill netscape. So, I shouldn't complain too much about X + KDE. |
| 07:15:37 | jacques | TomW: yeah I dont use kde - dont need it for what I do I guess - dont use gnome either |
| 07:15:49 | jacques | TomW: have you tried galeon? |
| 07:15:51 | BZFlag | wmaker rocks. ;-) |
| 07:16:03 | jacques | I use flwm |
| 07:16:41 | jacques | i built flwm for the tux, but I think matchbox is better suited to it |
| 07:16:55 | TomW | is that the Fine Lightweight Window Manager? |
| 07:18:39 | TomW | jacques: naw, I saw kde abt 3 years ago when they were 0.beta-3 code release, I liked what I saw and have stuck with it. It has served (sic) me well. |
| 07:19:45 | jacques | TomW: Fast Light WM |
| 07:19:50 | jacques | TomW: it's based on fltk |
| 07:20:00 | | fltk is Fast Lightweight Tool Kit and can be found at http://www.fltk.org or <reply> fltk is also available in 2 versions for the ipaq - libfltk1 from official feeds, which is cut-down, or libfltk1-1, the full bells'n'whistles, available from David McNab's feed at http://freenet.org.nz/feeds/mcnab |
| 07:20:00 | jacques | ibot: fltk |
| 07:20:18 | | well, tinyx is missing some features; thus is smaller and requires less resources. TinyX is now working on the Tux, but still needs work on the touchscreen. |
| 07:20:18 | TomW | ibot tinyx? |
| 07:20:25 | | okay, jacques. |
| 07:20:25 | jacques | ibot: fltk is also a cross-platform GUI toolkit |
| 07:21:15 | | okay, TomW. |
| 07:21:15 | TomW | ibot: tinyx is also been release as a Developer Release, not quite ready for production use. |
| 07:21:18 | | somebody said tinyx was missing some features; thus is smaller and requires less resources. TinyX is now working on the Tux, but still needs work on the touchscreen. or been release as a Developer Release, not quite ready for production use. |
| 07:21:18 | TomW | ibot tinyx? |
| 07:23:55 | TomW | tinyx? |
| 07:24:02 | | i heard tinyx was a lightweight version of X running on the TuxScreen platform, it is missing some features. TinyX has been released as a Developers' Release, this code is not yet ready for production use. |
| 07:24:02 | TomW | ibot tinyx? |
| 07:24:36 | | TomW: excuse me? |
| 07:24:36 | TomW | ibot == good robot. |
| 07:25:25 | TomW | jacques: g'nite, cul. |
| 07:33:46 | bhima | wow. the inferno installer is so fragile that if you give it a subdirectory with a trailing slash it fails. it basically mis-configures the executable's command line. |
| 07:33:49 | bhima | but it otherwise works. |
| 07:38:23 | jacques | bhima: :-\ |
| 07:38:47 | jacques | bhima: are you intalling linux on a tux for the first time? |
| 07:40:28 | bhima | naw. second time. |
| 07:40:31 | bhima | but it's been awhile. |
| 07:40:38 | bhima | and I don't have any of the config or cable stuff I used last time. |
| 07:41:14 | bhima | and this time, I am actually going to use it seriusly :) |
| 07:41:26 | bhima | wednesday/thursday I install it in my car. |
| 07:42:42 | bhima | which bootloader should I install? |
| 07:42:45 | jacques | bhima: wow |
| 07:43:06 | bhima | I'm gonna use stuff from www.ram-mount.com for the screen. |
| 07:43:09 | jacques | bhima: the 0.4 (2.0.4) bootldr is still the latest release |
| 07:43:23 | bhima | initially just gonna stick a long IDC cable in and see how it works. |
| 07:43:32 | bhima | then shielding, and then differential if needed. |
| 07:56:29 | jacques | heading home |
| 09:36:47 | mallum | fontenot: you about ? |
| 09:38:18 | fontenot | mallum: somewhat :-) |
| 09:39:30 | mallum | fontenot: I ran matchbox on my fujitsu which has the same visual as the tux, but under big Xfree |
| 09:39:51 | mallum | fontenot: and guess what ... the title background draw fine |
| 09:40:13 | mallum | fontenot: I think tinyX don't set up any color map |
| 09:40:35 | mallum | fontenot: I think setting up a colormap in matchbox may fix things |
| 09:40:47 | fontenot | mallum: yes that makes a lot of sense |
| 09:44:02 | fontenot | mallum: you probably dont have to setup the full map - most other apps seem to be OK - you ptobably only need to allocate the colors matchbox needs |
| 09:44:27 | mallum | fontenot: yes, thats what I plan on doing |
| 09:44:43 | mallum | fontenot: we should get rid of the gradient themes though on tuxscreen |
| 09:44:51 | mallum | fontenot: they will use up too many colors |
| 09:45:14 | mallum | fontenot: the blue theme looks nice on the tux .. non ? |
| 09:45:15 | fontenot | mallum: yes! we can have special low-color themes for 8-bit displays |
| 09:45:31 | mallum | fontenot: with bigger buttons too |
| 09:45:36 | fontenot | mallum: yep it's my current favorite :-) also because the buttons are large |
| 09:45:44 | mallum | great minds think alike :) |
| 09:46:06 | fontenot | heh, and since calibration is a little dodgy right now... the big buttons really help |
| 09:46:11 | mallum | indeed |
| 09:46:58 | mallum | fontenot: did you ever build fltk 2.0 ? |
| 09:47:08 | mallum | fontenot: its does AA dont it ? |
| 09:47:51 | mallum | fontenot: I'll patch some stuff into cvs for allocating colors |
| 09:52:31 | fontenot | mallum: I havent tried 2.0, just the 1.1 stuff - I can try it though |
| 09:58:46 | mallum | fontenot: I think I may start righting some stuff in fltk |
| 09:58:58 | mallum | fontenot: although its c++, Im kind of sick of gtk |
| 09:59:07 | mallum | fontenot: and I think gtk2 is just going to be too big |
| 09:59:34 | mallum | fontenot: the nice thing about gtk thouhg is that it has dillo browser |
| 10:01:20 | pmisfit | is back (gone 03:05:58) |
| 10:01:34 | pmisfit | fontenot: was curious about the oom stuff so i poked around a bit |
| 10:02:03 | pmisfit | try_to_free_pages() in mm/vmscan.c looks like the beginning of the end |
| 10:03:00 | pmisfit | damn i love kernel code. it's so crisp, clear, simple. |
| 10:03:13 | pmisfit | shrink_caches() is really where the dominoes start falling. |
| 10:03:14 | fontenot | pmisfit: :-) |
| 10:03:18 | fontenot | yeah right |
| 10:03:44 | pmisfit | seriously, there is no spaghetti in the kernel, at least as far as i have seen. |
| 10:04:06 | fontenot | pmisfit: i am thinking about trying to apply the -aa patches... |
| 10:04:10 | pmisfit | most functions are less than 25 lines long. |
| 10:05:36 | pmisfit | i'll look 'em up and see what -aa does. |
| 10:08:19 | pmisfit | well, when i wake up, i'll do that. bedtime. taking care of girlie tomorrow and she starts climbing all over me at 7am. argh. |
| 10:08:53 | pmisfit | is away: head hits table. thud. |
| 10:11:49 | fontenot | pmisfit: later :-) |
| 10:20:25 | file | ack |
| 10:20:29 | file | which department do I call |
| 10:20:34 | file | !!! for internet call waiting? |
| 10:20:43 | fontenot | mallum: what do you know about fltk 2.0 - is it getting a lot bigger than 1.x ? |
| 10:21:24 | file | curses |
| 10:22:41 | fontenot | foiled again! |
| 10:37:48 | file | I hate NBTel |
| 10:38:33 | file | they suspended my internet call waiting without telling me |
| 10:39:07 | mallum | fontenot: dont think so .. |
| 11:50:51 | fontenot | mallum: have you looked at anything with AA text on the tuxscreen? I just wonder how good it would look on an 8but display... |
| 11:51:28 | mallum | fontenot: good question |
| 11:51:59 | mallum | fontenot: I wouldn't make it a high priority |
| 11:53:08 | mallum | fontenot: I nearly have some test color code |
| 11:54:16 | fontenot | mallum: whoo-hoo!!! |
| 11:54:18 | fontenot | :-) |
| 11:56:54 | mallum | fontenot: it compiles |
| 11:56:59 | mallum | fontenot: I'll commit |
| 11:57:31 | mallum | fontenot: configure with ./configure --enable-debug |
| 11:57:52 | mallum | fontenot: and then run with matchbox | grep -i color |
| 11:58:03 | mallum | fontenot: its a bit of a shot in the dark |
| 11:59:24 | mallum | fontenot: ok, its commited |
| 12:16:16 | fontenot | mallum: you want me to try that now? |
| 12:18:20 | mallum | fontenot: only if you've got time |
| 12:18:25 | mallum | fontenot: no pressure |
| 12:19:35 | fontenot | im building the new builtroot |
| 12:19:38 | fontenot | I'll give it a try |
| 12:20:18 | mallum | fontenot: coolio daddio :) |
| 12:20:38 | mallum | fontenot: Im writing a proposal form an embedded linux book |
| 12:20:50 | mallum | fontenot: I gotta make some money |
| 12:24:47 | fontenot | mallum: ooooh, I wish you good luck |
| 12:25:46 | mallum | fontenot: I met a publisher after I did a talk at the python conference |
| 12:26:00 | fontenot | nice |
| 12:26:32 | mallum | fontenot: I want it to be an ethusiasts kind of book |
| 12:26:44 | mallum | fontenot: man in bedroom embedded linux |
| 12:26:55 | mallum | fontenot: rather than covering much commercial stuff |
| 12:26:55 | fontenot | cool i would buy that |
| 12:27:09 | mallum | fontenot: rather ipaq, dreamcast, tux etc etc kind of stuff |
| 12:27:40 | mallum | fontenot: you'll probably know all the stuff in it :) |
| 12:27:57 | mallum | fontenot: it wont get too heavy I dont think |
| 12:28:07 | mallum | fontenot: theres a lot of stuff I'll need to research |
| 12:49:29 | file | THERE! |
| 12:49:40 | mallum | WHERE? |
| 12:49:54 | file | here. |
| 12:50:05 | file | I finally got NBTel straightened out |
| 12:50:42 | file | apparently they completely removed a feature from my account and didn't tell me |
| 12:50:57 | file | so I had to call Sales and get my PIN number, then call another department and get it added |
| 12:51:04 | file | then get it setup on the computer |
| 12:51:34 | file | and now I have to call and setup custom greetings |
| 12:51:47 | file | wow - I can transfer calls |
| 12:53:19 | mallum | fontenot: how is buildroot going ? |
| 12:54:46 | fontenot | mallum: flashing it now, but I still need to build the latest cvs matchbox with debug enabled to test |
| 12:56:27 | fontenot | mallum: hmm this is new from rxvt: |
| 12:56:39 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Green3" |
| 12:56:39 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Green3" |
| 12:56:39 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Yellow3" |
| 12:56:39 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Yellow3" |
| 12:56:39 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Blue3" |
| 12:56:41 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Blue3" |
| 12:56:44 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Magenta3" |
| 12:56:46 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Magenta3" |
| 12:56:48 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Cyan3" |
| 12:56:51 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Cyan3" |
| 12:56:53 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "AntiqueWhite" |
| 12:56:55 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "AntiqueWhite" |
| 12:56:57 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Grey25" |
| 12:56:59 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "Grey25" |
| 12:57:01 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "#B2B2B2" |
| 12:57:03 | file | http://aliant.internetcallmanager.com/CustomerService/UserGuide/incoming.gif |
| 12:57:03 | fontenot | rxvt: can't load color "#B2B2B2" |
| 12:57:05 | file | :) |
| 12:57:05 | fontenot | rxvt: can't allocate Color_topShadow |
| 13:00:29 | mallum | fontenot: is that new matchbox ? |
| 13:00:52 | mallum | fontenot: I think tinyX just doesn't have a colormap |
| 13:01:11 | mallum | fontenot: at 8bit |
| 13:01:30 | file | TinyX is neat |
| 13:01:35 | file | I tried icewm with it, but it didn't work |
| 13:01:37 | fontenot | mallum: that's not even matchnox yet - it's rxvt, but I havent seen that before |
| 13:01:47 | fontenot | file: I've used icewm with it on the ipaq |
| 13:01:48 | mallum | fontenot: yeah Im sure it has no colormap |
| 13:01:57 | file | fontenot : I get an iconv error |
| 13:02:22 | mallum | fontenot: are there not switches for tinyX regarding colormaps ? |
| 13:02:44 | mallum | fontenot: also do you have rgb.txt on the tuxscreen ? |
| 13:03:12 | fontenot | mallum: heh I was putting one on my images - I need to check this buildroot one |
| 13:03:13 | mallum | fontenot: X needs rgb.txt to map the color names to actual rgb values |
| 13:03:42 | file | bbl |
| 13:03:55 | fontenot | mallum: yeah, looks like there isn't one |
| 13:04:07 | fontenot | i know i mentioned it to tomw at one point |
| 13:06:02 | fontenot | hmm I put the rgb.txt there but no change in the error messags |
| 13:06:34 | mallum | fontenot: did you restart X ? |
| 13:12:04 | fontenot | mallum: heh no |
| 13:12:11 | fontenot | dint think of that |
| 13:12:17 | fontenot | no wait a sec I did |
| 13:12:23 | fontenot | I killed X and did a startx |
| 13:12:34 | fontenot | anyway, do you want the debug output from new matchbox? |
| 13:12:53 | file | back |
| 13:12:55 | fontenot | eme_rc & |
| 13:12:55 | fontenot | /usr/X11R6/bin # DEBUG: cmb line: got theme :/usr/X11R6/share/matchbox/themes/de |
| 13:12:55 | fontenot | fault_theme_rc |
| 13:12:55 | fontenot | DEBUG: opening /usr/X11R6/share/matchbox/themes/default_theme_rc |
| 13:12:57 | fontenot | font -*-lucida-medium-r-normal-*-*-100-*-*-*-*-*-* not found, trying fixed |
| 13:12:58 | fontenot | DEBUG: WIN GROUP IS 0 |
| 13:13:00 | fontenot | DEBUG: got map request for new clientDEBUG: got dock atom |
| 13:13:02 | fontenot | DEBUG: checking <unnamed>, minisys |
| 13:13:04 | fontenot | DEBUG: WIN GROUP IS 0 |
| 13:13:06 | fontenot | DEBUG: calling configure for new clientDEBUG: c->xtra is 0 |
| 13:13:08 | fontenot | DEBUG: reparenting new clientDEBUG: move/resizing new clientDEBUG: docked clien |
| 13:13:10 | fontenot | t, resize: 32 x 16 |
| 13:13:12 | fontenot | DEBUG: finally showing new clientDEBUG: got map request for new clientDEBUG: got |
| 13:13:14 | fontenot | dock atom |
| 13:13:17 | fontenot | DEBUG: checking minisys, <unnamed> <2> |
| 13:13:19 | fontenot | DEBUG: checking <unnamed>, <unnamed> <2> |
| 13:13:21 | fontenot | DEBUG: WIN GROUP IS 0 |
| 13:13:22 | fontenot | DEBUG: calling configure for new clientDEBUG: c->xtra is 0 |
| 13:13:26 | fontenot | DEBUG: reparenting new clientDEBUG: move/resizing new clientDEBUG: docked clien |
| 13:13:28 | fontenot | t, resize: 38 x 11 |
| 13:13:32 | fontenot | cking <unnamed> <2>, rxvt |
| 13:13:34 | fontenot | DEBUG: checking <unnamed>, rxvt |
| 13:13:37 | fontenot | DEBUG: checking minisys, rxvt |
| 13:13:38 | fontenot | DEBUG: WIN GROUP IS 8388611 |
| 13:13:41 | fontenot | DEBUG: main client new flags are 0 |
| 13:13:43 | fontenot | DEBUG: calling configure for new clientDEBUG: reparenting new clientDEBUG: move/ |
| 13:13:45 | fontenot | resizing new clientDEBUG: finally showing new clientDEBUG: main_client_show: ca |
| 13:13:47 | fontenot | lledDEBUG: base show(): checking for transients etc..DEBUG: event loop: exposeDE |
| 13:13:48 | fontenot | BUG: expose on <unnamed> |
| 13:13:50 | fontenot | DEBUG: event loop: unmapDEBUG: find: rxvt is mapped |
| 13:13:52 | fontenot | DEBUG: find: minisys is mapped |
| 13:13:56 | fontenot | DEBUG: unmap on minisys |
| 13:13:58 | fontenot | DEBUG: event loop: conf notifyDEBUG: event loop: unmapDEBUG: find: rxvt is mappe |
| 13:14:00 | fontenot | d |
| 13:14:02 | fontenot | DEBUG: find: minisys is mapped |
| 13:14:04 | mallum | fontenot: pipe the debug though grep -i color |
| 13:14:04 | fontenot | DEBUG: find: <unnamed> <2> is mapped |
| 13:14:07 | fontenot | DEBUG: unmap on <unnamed> <2> |
| 13:14:09 | fontenot | DEBUG: event loop: conf notifyDEBUG: event loop: unmapDEBUG: find: rxvt is mappe |
| 13:14:11 | fontenot | d |
| 13:14:13 | fontenot | DEBUG: unmap on rxvt |
| 13:14:15 | fontenot | DEBUG: event loop: property notifyDEBUG: find: rxvt is mapped |
| 13:14:16 | fontenot | DEBUG: property change on rxvt |
| 13:14:18 | fontenot | DEBUG: event loop: exposeDEBUG: expose on rxvt |
| 13:14:28 | fontenot | oops |
| 13:14:32 | mallum | :) |
| 13:14:41 | file | uh huh |
| 13:14:54 | file | I feel a bit better |
| 13:15:10 | fontenot | dammit I dont know how |
| 13:15:18 | fontenot | i am used to cshell redirection |
| 13:15:23 | fontenot | not bash |
| 13:15:35 | fontenot | how do I pipe stderr? |
| 13:15:49 | fontenot | |& does not work |
| 13:16:15 | file | DEATH TO YOU! |
| 13:18:52 | mallum | fontenot: 2>1 |
| 13:19:29 | fontenot | mallum: 2|1 ? |
| 13:19:47 | fontenot | or foo | bar 2>1 ? |
| 13:20:06 | mallum | fontenot: matchbox 2>&1 | grep -i color ? |
| 13:20:31 | fontenot | and that's somehow more elagant than foo |& bar gimme a break |
| 13:20:35 | fontenot | elegant |
| 13:21:11 | mallum | csh is like so totally 1970 ;) |
| 13:21:16 | fontenot | mallum: ok so far the grep has not returned any output |
| 13:21:31 | mallum | fontenot: and there are no colors ? |
| 13:21:34 | fontenot | as you can see - there is not color statements in the stuff i sent you |
| 13:22:06 | mallum | fontenot: can you just check the last func in theme.c |
| 13:22:24 | mallum | fontenot: lets just check you have the same version |
| 13:22:30 | file | straces fontenot |
| 13:22:48 | fontenot | mallum: ok what do you want to know? |
| 13:23:04 | fontenot | } else { dbg("COLOR: XallocColorCells failed :("); return 0; } |
| 13:23:41 | mallum | fontenot: hmm, that means XAllocColor is working :( |
| 13:23:49 | mallum | fontenot: thats too wierd |
| 13:24:33 | fontenot | mallum: how do we know it's not? |
| 13:25:35 | fontenot | http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/matchbox17.png |
| 13:25:39 | fontenot | looks good to me :-) |
| 13:28:15 | mallum | fontenot: woah, its working !!! |
| 13:28:30 | mallum | fontenot: but how ?? |
| 13:28:52 | fontenot | beats me |
| 13:28:54 | fontenot | :-D |
| 13:29:02 | mallum | the joy of X |
| 13:29:16 | file | If the women don't find you handsome, they should atleast find you handy. |
| 13:29:30 | fontenot | hmm, I notice tomw's screenshot is the same as mine: http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/TinyX_for_the_TuxScreen |
| 13:29:37 | mallum | maybe it just needed that rgb.txt for XAllocColor to work ? |
| 13:30:10 | fontenot | want me to try the other mathbox binary? |
| 13:30:18 | fontenot | the non-debug, buildroot one? |
| 13:30:35 | mallum | fontenot: yeah |
| 13:30:44 | mallum | fontenot: the debug one is slightly bigger |
| 13:30:49 | mallum | fontenot: and we dont want that |
| 13:31:00 | file | small is good.\ |
| 13:31:25 | mallum | less is more |
| 13:31:35 | fontenot | mallum: I mean, the buildroot matchbox looks just the same |
| 13:31:53 | mallum | fontenot: yep |
| 13:33:27 | file | more is less? |
| 13:33:30 | fontenot | what does that imply? |
| 13:33:46 | file | Unknown. |
| 13:35:29 | mallum | for example, its implys that sometimes simple solutions are better than complex ones. |
| 13:36:55 | fontenot | mallum: but I'm 99% sure I've tried matchbox with rgb.txt installed before |
| 13:37:30 | mallum | fontenot: thats all I can think it could be |
| 13:39:17 | fontenot | mallum: I want to try some more themes |
| 13:39:34 | mallum | fontenot: yeah the blue one :) |
| 13:39:42 | fontenot | ok here i go |
| 13:39:50 | fontenot | dont get your hopes up |
| 13:42:56 | mallum | fontenot: any joy ? |
| 13:43:17 | fontenot | ok get your hopes up |
| 13:43:48 | mallum | fontenot: :) |
| 13:43:55 | fontenot | http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/matchbox18.png |
| 13:44:00 | mallum | fontenot: I've noticed colors are working in rxvt now too |
| 13:44:22 | mallum | woohoo ! |
| 13:45:38 | fontenot | http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/matchbox20.png |
| 13:46:01 | mallum | realises he needs a usb to serial dooberry for laptop |
| 13:46:20 | mallum | fontenot: thats nice |
| 13:46:36 | fontenot | yep :-) |
| 13:47:24 | mallum | Im gonna steel that one and put it in my screenshots dir, if thats ok |
| 13:47:36 | mallum | fontenot: ooo, you should do one with the output of df |
| 13:48:22 | fontenot | mallum: use whatever you like |
| 13:48:35 | fontenot | mallum: just df ? |
| 13:48:36 | fontenot | ok |
| 13:51:23 | fontenot | like this? http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/matchbox22.png |
| 13:53:37 | fontenot | gonna go watch some tivo |
| 13:54:18 | mallum | fontenot: cool, muchious gratious |
| 13:55:05 | fontenot | de nada |
| 13:56:42 | fontenot | mallum: I was meaning to ask you - can the bar at the bottom act as a dock for dockapps? |
| 13:56:48 | fontenot | such as wm dockapps? |
| 13:57:27 | mallum | fontenot: its possible |
| 13:57:34 | mallum | fontenot: you can make it a lot bigger |
| 13:57:55 | mallum | fontenot: but it uses a slightly different protocol to wm dockapps |
| 13:58:20 | mallum | fontenot: I should right a utility that would dock them |
| 13:58:44 | fontenot | i would LOVE that |
| 13:59:08 | fontenot | i love those little applets but never have a place to put them |
| 13:59:17 | fontenot | and they make great eye candy |
| 13:59:59 | fontenot | I always wanted to have a dock app, so I could have one virtual screen dedicated to dockapps |
| 14:00:15 | fontenot | so I would not necessarily have to have them on every virtual screen taking up space |
| 14:00:17 | fontenot | OR |
| 14:00:23 | fontenot | I would like a pop-up dock |
| 14:00:38 | fontenot | hit a key and dock pops up, hit it again and it disapears |
| 14:01:34 | fontenot | there are so many cool little monitor apps and clocks etc |
| 14:01:50 | fontenot | wireless monitors, network |
| 14:02:28 | fontenot | ok BIAB |
| 14:04:54 | mallum | fontenot: the dock already pops up down |
| 14:05:00 | mallum | fontenot: tap the side of it |
| 14:07:39 | nelson | mallum: calibration on my tux is such that I can't get there from here. |
| 14:07:59 | mallum | nelson: there is a keyboard shortcut |
| 14:08:09 | mallum | nelson: try alt-l or alt-L |
| 14:09:00 | mallum | nelson: if that dont work relaunch matchbox with -modifier <mod1|mod2|ctrl> |
| 14:10:40 | CosmicPenguin | is back (gone 14:56:41) |
| 14:11:54 | nelson | mallum: that doesn't work. |
| 14:13:48 | mallum | nelson: I think by defualt its set to mod2 ( record on the ipaq ) |
| 14:14:18 | mallum | nelson: you may want to change it to mod1 (alt) via -modifier mod1 |
| 14:14:22 | mallum | nelson: that should work |
| 14:15:21 | mallum | nelson: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox/x43.html#AEN111 |
| 14:25:22 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 2 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes and 10 seconds ago, saying: :) [Sun Apr 28 09:46:12 2002] |
| 14:25:22 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: seen andersee? |
| 15:09:18 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: btw - thanks for the pointer about the X background - it was easy to find after your advice |
| 15:23:57 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: np, glad to be of help ... did it work ? |
| 15:32:46 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: yep - its now all black, so the transition from kernel framebuffer to X is smooth |
| 15:33:00 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: now all I have to do is get rid of the mouse pointer, and everything will be perfect |
| 15:33:27 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: do a search for a prog called unclutter |
| 15:33:56 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: but it difficult to get rid of the cursor with xlib alone IIRC |
| 15:34:04 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: cos apps like to change it |
| 15:34:19 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: yeah - I'm hacking the server so that it uses null bits to set the root pointer |
| 15:34:36 | CosmicPenguin | and my prog does the same thing, so all should be well |
| 15:34:47 | nelson | okay, my theory didn't pan out. |
| 15:35:07 | mallum | nelson: alternate big bang theory ? |
| 15:35:23 | nelson | I thought that perhaps the blue screen of death was caused by output to /dev/tty0, |
| 15:35:39 | nelson | so I ran (from the serial port) xserver >/dev/tty0 2>/dev/tty0, but no blue. |
| 15:36:22 | nelson | s/xserver/startx/ ; same thing in the other direction: I ran startx from the console with >/dev/null 2>/dev/null and still got blue. |
| 15:46:19 | fontenot | nelson: what about something like nohup to detach the tty ? |
| 15:50:21 | nelson | fontenot: Hmmmm.... that *might* work. |
| 16:37:32 | | fontenot was last seen on #handhelds.org 33 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying: qtopia device? [Tue Apr 30 17:03:43 2002] |
| 16:37:32 | TomW | ibot, seen fontenot |
| 16:37:45 | TomW | fontenot: did you blob that last unit? |
| 16:45:46 | fontenot | TomW: nope, not yet |
| 16:46:27 | TomW | fontenot: good, I am working on blob-2.0.5pre3 to reduce the memory footprint < 32K. |
| 16:46:52 | fontenot | wow |
| 16:47:18 | fontenot | TomW: but erase size is still 128kB right? |
| 16:48:10 | TomW | fontenot: naw, just disabling some of the features. The problem I ran into with Inferno was that it died while installing a blob that was 37K in size. Only Tux that I had that did that. |
| 16:53:09 | TomW | fontenot: testing it now. I have it at 27K, but I think I need to add --with-debug to get the xdownload progress reports printed out. |
| 17:02:18 | fontenot | TomW: I gotta go out for a while but I'll be back later (hopefully) |
| 17:04:33 | TomW | fontenot: k |
| 17:10:02 | TomW | test |
| 17:11:15 | ctr | tried that TinyX+Msomething today |
| 17:11:19 | ctr | not bad :) |
| 17:11:25 | ctr | could do with a few more X apps though :) |
| 17:11:37 | TomW | heh, that is up to you fellows. |
| 17:12:17 | ctr | pffft :) |
| 17:12:41 | TomW | ctr: everyone has their own ideas as to what a "good" app would be. ;-) |
| 17:12:47 | ctr | well |
| 17:12:49 | ctr | i dunno |
| 17:12:57 | ctr | something that would amuse my gf :) |
| 17:13:19 | TomW | ctr: a caller id driven call center would be nice... |
| 17:13:43 | ctr | yeah |
| 17:13:45 | ctr | whats tuxphone for? |
| 17:13:51 | TomW | dunno |
| 17:14:00 | nelson | Is there a way to implement an answering machine? |
| 17:14:20 | TomW | there should be, I suspect that is what the shannon-ip mod is for? |
| 17:15:10 | nelson | I was hoping that even that wasn't necessary. |
| 17:15:29 | TomW | speedracer has it working with a 'cat soundfile > /dev/audio" and says that it sends the file to the phone audio. |
| 17:15:35 | nelson | See, if I could have it be an answering machine, then I could replace the family's answering machine. |
| 17:16:19 | TomW | nelson: I think that the problem is that the DSP chip handled those functions. Unfortunately, Lucent / Phillips is not giving information about that stuff. |
| 17:17:17 | nelson | and there's no way to reverse-engineer it from the communications between Inferno and the dsp? |
| 17:18:52 | CosmicPenguin | nelson: the latest DSP spec is here: http://cosmic.censoft.com/dspspec.html |
| 17:18:53 | CosmicPenguin | I think |
| 17:19:43 | CosmicPenguin | The problem is that there was no connection between the UCB1200 audio system and the DSP (until the shanip mod) |
| 17:20:37 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: but, then, how did they get the modem to work? A software modem? They didn't use the DSP? |
| 17:21:23 | CosmicPenguin | TomW: We suspect that the used the DSP - nobody ever saw that part of the code - we assume patent problems with the people who actually wrote the softmodem |
| 17:22:05 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: yes, same assumption. But, we wouldn't need the DSP code, just the command set to talk with the DSP. |
| 17:22:23 | CosmicPenguin | TomW: Right - but that that was the part that was closed to us |
| 17:23:05 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: yeah, everyone runs scared when you start talking about sharing knowledge, they go hide behind their lawyers! :-( |
| 17:24:11 | TomW | Mediocre engineers being led by mediocre management, everyone is afraid of someone who has a greater understanding of "it" than they do... |
| 17:26:07 | sjhill | sees the dynamic linker for uClibc work for the first time on MIPS |
| 17:26:15 | CosmicPenguin | TomW: I think in this case, its more of a case of profits - Lucent didn't write the code, a company called Altocom did |
| 17:26:26 | sjhill | now THAT was a lot of work |
| 17:27:45 | TomW | CosmicPenguin: sounds like the only way to do this is to put an analyzer on the bus to the DSP chip and see what Inferno is saying to the DSP? |
| 17:28:15 | TomW | I have done that kind of work before (reverse engineer), it can be tedious and frustrating to do.. |
| 17:28:20 | CosmicPenguin | For the modem part maybe, but 95% of the functionality has already been documented |
| 17:38:45 | ctr | CP! |
| 17:38:49 | ctr | ltns :) |
| 17:39:35 | CosmicPenguin | ctr: I know..... |
| 17:39:38 | CosmicPenguin | has been busy |
| 17:40:15 | ctr | ok |
| 17:40:19 | ctr | i am off to see my gf |
| 17:40:26 | CosmicPenguin | have a good time |
| 17:48:10 | nelson | CosmicPenguin: ahhhh, I see. You'd have to access the audio through the DSP interface, and nobody knows how to do that. |
| 17:48:56 | CosmicPenguin | nelson: yep - thats the problem |
| 17:52:46 | nelson | CosmicPenguin: so an answering machine function isn't on the horizon. Maybe I should drop back and punt? |
| 17:53:21 | TomW | nelson: without the DSP, the only way to implement a modem is to use a CODEC (high speed A to D, D to A) and do what the DSP chip would do for us in software. Problem is, it takes a lot of CPU cycles to implement a software moden. |
| 17:53:28 | TomW | s/moden/modem/ |
| 17:54:29 | TomW | nelson: no, the answering machine is possible if you can take control of the CODEC and send / receive the digital sampling of the audio on the phone line. |
| 17:55:52 | TomW | nelson: then all you would need is some silence compression routines to compress the data that is coming off the CODEC. That is really simple stuff to do, the DSP is / should not be needed to implement an answering machine. |
| 17:58:50 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |
| 18:10:38 | nelson | TomW: I'm not wanting to have to add hardware. |
| 18:15:12 | scanline | is away: ZzZz |
| 18:59:11 | CosmicPenguin | is back (gone 01:00:21) |
| 19:01:39 | sjhill | seen andersee |
| 19:01:44 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 2 days, 10 hours, 15 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: :) [Sun Apr 28 09:46:12 2002] |
| 19:01:44 | sjhill | ibot: seen andersee |
| 19:01:53 | sjhill | must be on needed vacation |
| 19:04:55 | fontenot | back from dmv |
| 19:04:59 | fontenot | what fun |
| 19:13:20 | mallum | dmv ? |
| 19:13:58 | fontenot | pls dnt mk me typ it |
| 19:14:11 | fontenot | dept of mot. veh. |
| 19:19:44 | mallum | fontenot: :) |
| 19:19:48 | mallum | fontenot: frys ! |
| 19:23:59 | fontenot | mallum: hmm? what about fry's? |
| 19:24:22 | fontenot | mallum: BTW DMV is Department of Motor Vehicles |
| 19:24:31 | mallum | fontenot: you have frys near you |
| 19:24:52 | mallum | fontenot: I originally thought dmv = frys |
| 19:25:01 | mallum | fontenot: have you been to sleep today BTW ? |
| 19:32:05 | fontenot | mallum: nope, no rest for the weary |
| 19:32:21 | fontenot | mallum: yeah we are lousy with fry's here |
| 19:33:08 | fontenot | dont tell anyone but I got to fry's about twice a week |
| 19:33:16 | fontenot | i just like it for some reason |
| 19:33:22 | fontenot | and they have nice sales on DVDs |
| 19:36:08 | mallum | I wish I could go to frys twice a week |
| 19:36:18 | mallum | there is nothing anywhere near its scale in the UK |
| 19:36:42 | fontenot | yeah they have a lot of stuff |
| 19:36:49 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 19:36:54 | fontenot | hi as_ |
| 19:37:34 | fontenot | i think I'm going to try to take a nap |
| 19:37:38 | fontenot | before work :-\ |
| 19:38:38 | mallum | fontenot: they even have a museum ... |
| 19:55:56 | as_ | It worked Tim, its not dead! |
| 20:04:32 | prpplague | howdy all |
| 20:04:41 | mallum | hey prpplague |
| 20:05:23 | prpplague | mallum: hows the matchbox dev going? |
| 20:05:40 | as_ | prp :] |
| 20:05:53 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: happy afternoon |
| 20:06:10 | as_ | Tux is not dead. Cured eith a potion made from two dead mouses tales. |
| 20:16:05 | mallum | prpplague: we have color http://handhelds.org/~mallum/screenshots/matchbox-tuxscreen-01.png :) |
| 20:19:29 | as_ | Red :] |
| 20:31:03 | RedBeard | hi as |
| 20:31:05 | RedBeard | bye as |
| 21:05:37 | kergoth | BZFlag: will lineo be releasing a newer version of the strongarm crosscompiler toolchain than the version on the sharp dev site? (e.g. 2.95.3+ instead of 2.95.2) |
| 21:41:15 | prpplague | andersee: howdy |
| 21:41:22 | Russ | afternoon |
| 21:41:37 | BZFlag | andersee: heya. |
| 21:43:31 | CosmicPenguin | andersee! (al-la norm from cheers) |
| 21:50:26 | andersee | BZFlag: howdy all |
| 21:50:38 | andersee | takes the kids to the park |
| 21:50:50 | andersee | is away: at the park with the kids |
| 21:57:22 | kergoth | BZFlag: fyi, I'm adding a crosscompilation toolchain build to the oz buildroot.. to make it nearly completely self-sufficient (plus to deal with some problems making an existing one link against the built glibc) |
| 21:58:36 | BZFlag | andersee: what list archives should be removed from oss? or would you like the mirroring fixed? |
| 22:20:21 | scanline | is back (gone 04:05:08) |
| 22:34:33 | sjm | has entered the office |
| 22:47:45 | CosmicPenguin | andersee went to the park |
| 22:47:51 | CosmicPenguin | sucks for him, its raining in midtown |
| 22:51:40 | mallum | he took them to xerox park |
| 23:30:13 | scanline | is away: I'm busy |
| 23:30:24 | scanline | is back (gone 00:00:03) |
