| 00:08:54 | as_ | Hmm, does anyone have an image of the flash the tux starts out with? |
| 00:10:03 | as_ | Ive looked at both images in the inferno section of the dowload, but neither is right. But the part dissasembled file does match with it. |
| 00:11:55 | as_ | Hiya prp. |
| 00:12:12 | as_ | Do you have an image of the virgin tux flash? |
| 00:12:30 | prpplague | as_: sorry its at the office |
| 00:12:46 | as_ | Thats ok. |
| 00:13:03 | fvgestel | as : I've tried to download the default image from the tuxscreen before I blobbed it, but I only got error messages |
| 00:14:04 | fvgestel | as : using inferno under win2k. That' probably the problem... |
| 00:14:11 | as_ | Rewriting the tux by redirecting the debug port is cunning but probably hard to do in reverse. I dont have a serial cable I can use yet either. |
| 00:14:54 | fvgestel | has anyone got QPE going over here? |
| 00:15:03 | prpplague | as_: come on! even the most basic geek can make a serial cable! lol |
| 00:15:19 | fvgestel | I've got the touchscreen to work, but the keyboard is still not functioning |
| 00:15:26 | as_ | If they have spare 9pin D types, which I dont. |
| 00:15:59 | as_ | I used up my last ones making a DTE to DCE cable to hack my STB with. |
| 00:16:28 | prpplague | as_: doh |
| 00:16:43 | prpplague | as_: you can never had too many spare parts |
| 00:16:49 | as_ | Yeah, and the real Doh is that my PC only has 9pin connectors. |
| 00:17:05 | as_ | And since they are on the motherboard, I cant alter that. |
| 00:17:10 | prpplague | (except when the gf/wf starts to complain) |
| 00:17:35 | as_ | I got the last 9pin I needed by ripping it out of a very old graphics card. |
| 00:17:57 | prpplague | argh, i have 5 digital design book and not one of the talks about proper usage of cap and pull up resistors |
| 00:18:25 | as_ | Theres a digital design book I want. Been told its very good. |
| 00:18:42 | as_ | Called 'High speed digital design :- A handbook of black magic'. |
| 00:19:04 | prpplague | checks amazon |
| 00:19:23 | as_ | I just havnt got around to ordering it. |
| 00:20:03 | prpplague | as_: your an ee student arn't you? |
| 00:20:27 | as_ | Yes recently graduated. |
| 00:21:14 | prpplague | as_: is it my imagination or do most digital design book look at the big picture but don't do much on details and pratical implementation? |
| 00:21:45 | prpplague | as_: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0133957241/qid=1020039820/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/002-2237732-3113641 |
| 00:22:24 | as_ | The black box method. Draw a lot of symbols and dont worry what actual electronics is going on inside. Yes IVe found that with a lot of books. |
| 00:23:11 | as_ | I still dont know how to correctly terminate a series transmission line. |
| 00:23:14 | Russ | I need to know how to layout high speed digital boards |
| 00:23:59 | as_ | Parallel is easy, R = Z, but series throws me it seems to be different. |
| 00:24:15 | as_ | Weird stuff like not making connections at 90 degrees. |
| 00:24:51 | Russ | as_: thats easy to do (the 90 thing) |
| 00:25:06 | prpplague | Russ: are you saying you need to know, or the books should be for "i need to know"? |
| 00:25:28 | as_ | Yes, I just dont understand why. |
| 00:25:32 | Russ | "popular in: chandler, AZ" imagine that |
| 00:25:35 | TomW | Russ: get a spice simulator, that is how the "big boys" do the high-speed boards now. They do the layout, then run the entire board through a simulator to predict how it will behave. |
| 00:26:05 | TomW | Russ: They're only abt $20K or so. :-( |
| 00:26:05 | Russ | TomW: right, but you need to know why you are laying it out the way you are laying it out first |
| 00:26:22 | Russ | I want to do a GTK/GL routing package when I have the time |
| 00:26:37 | Russ | prpplague: I need to know |
| 00:26:51 | prpplague | Russ: ohh, join the crowd |
| 00:27:27 | prpplague | feels better knowing that the EE grads still have questions |
| 00:28:03 | Russ | looks like a good book |
| 00:28:11 | Russ | I'm going to be a CSE grad soon |
| 00:28:25 | TomW | fontenot: on that 2.0.4 Tux that you put the last build on (the one you prep'ed last night), what you do get for 'df -h' ? |
| 00:31:49 | TomW | anyone have a "stock" tux? One with 16Meg of DRAM and the blob-2.0.4 loader? |
| 00:37:05 | as_ | Id take that as a 'no' I guess. |
| 00:37:16 | as_ | Mines stock but no blob. |
| 00:38:37 | prpplague | sorry all my stuff is at the office |
| 00:38:52 | TomW | prpplague: tnx. |
| 00:39:10 | prpplague | TomW: i guess i could ssh in and check..... |
| 00:39:49 | TomW | prpplague: I just need to know how much Flash is available for the ramdisk. Do a 'df -h'. |
| 00:41:17 | prpplague | TomW: ohh, my tux isn't connect to the network |
| 00:41:34 | prpplague | TomW: took it down friday |
| 00:42:06 | TomW | prpplague: np, thanks for trying. |
| 00:42:16 | TomW | prpplague: all my stuff is modified here. |
| 00:42:42 | prpplague | TomW: i've got access to a virgin build of 0.4 |
| 00:46:27 | TomW | prpplague: naw, don't bother, I am not sure where you could look to give me the info. Not important, it'll wait until fontenot comes back again. |
| 01:06:06 | prpplague | TomW: you got any book recomendations/ |
| 01:06:09 | prpplague | TomW: ? |
| 01:06:17 | TomW | none |
| 01:06:28 | prpplague | TomW: bummer |
| 01:06:40 | prpplague | continues his slow search of amazon |
| 01:06:52 | TomW | prpplague: the only books I read anymore are linux books and pdf datasheets on ICs. |
| 01:07:19 | prpplague | TomW: ohhh man here's one i'm dying to buy - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1556156421/qid=1020041375/sr=1-15/ref=sr_1_15/002-2237732-3113641 |
| 01:09:22 | prpplague | oops forget the <not> </not> tags |
| 01:14:53 | prpplague | as_ / Russ : this looks like something http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0780353765/qid=1020042855/sr=2-1/002-2237732-3113641 |
| 01:21:18 | as3 | Hmm, what is EMC. |
| 01:21:40 | as3 | I'm not sure this is useful info, sounds like sheilding requirements. |
| 01:21:43 | GPSFan | TomW: one of my tuxes is still almost stock, blob 2.0.4 wise that is. when I do a df -h I get /dev/mtdblock2 3.0M 1.3M 1.7M 44% |
| 01:23:31 | prpplague | as3: electro magnetic control? |
| 01:24:20 | TomW | GPSFan: ok! Thanks! I have one of the units here that "claims" it is a blob-2.0.4, but, you know, I have a JTAG and I cannot be sure of anything once I get loose with that thing! |
| 01:24:50 | TomW | GPSFan: looks like tinyx + matchbox will comfortably fit inside a "standard" tux |
| 01:25:58 | TomW | GPSFan: Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 01:25:59 | TomW | GPSFan: /dev/mtdblock2 3.0M 2.5M 524.0k 83% / |
| 01:27:01 | as3 | EMI is interference. |
| 01:27:10 | GPSFan | TomW: yep, this ones blob signs on as 2.0.4, my other one is 2.0.5. That's great! I'll look forward to installing it. are you going to do a binary release for the toolchain challenged? My main Linux machine is running Win2k at the moment for a paying job. ;>) |
| 01:27:46 | as3 | Not sure I know what C would be. |
| 01:28:21 | as3 | Communication maybe. |
| 01:28:31 | prpplague | as3: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0750649305/reader/5/002-2237732-3113641#reader-link |
| 01:29:21 | TomW | GPSFan: If you want a working binary, I can /dcc one to you now. |
| 01:29:22 | prpplague | as3: ahh eletromagnetic compatibility |
| 01:33:51 | as3 | Aha. |
| 01:39:29 | GPSFan | TomW: back sorry, had to deal with dinner related stuff. I'd like to give it a try, dcc might just work too. |
| 01:39:56 | TomW | GPSFan: k |
| 01:41:02 | GPSFan | looks like it's comming in ;>) thanks, I hope I'll get a chance to try it out tonight, things are hectic here... |
| 01:41:24 | TomW | GPSFan: when the tux boots, issue a startx from the serail console. We have some color palette issues when startx is run from the IR keyboard. |
| 01:41:43 | GPSFan | TomW: what kernel does it need? |
| 01:41:54 | TomW | 2.4.18 |
| 01:41:56 | prpplague | goes to read DD book |
| 01:41:58 | prpplague | bbl |
| 01:42:16 | TomW | GPSFan: you want the kernel too? |
| 01:42:46 | TomW | GPSFan: better to be safe... |
| 01:43:14 | GPSFan | TomW: no, I'm running 2.4.18 rmk2 tux1 is that ok? |
| 01:43:35 | TomW | GPSFan Yes, should be fine. that is the latest. |
| 01:43:56 | GPSFan | good, I refused your kernel dcc, no bad feelings... |
| 01:44:04 | TomW | heh, np |
| 01:54:48 | as_ | Ok, I think I just bricked my phone. |
| 01:55:31 | as_ | I pressed CTRL-D. Now nothing happens when it boots. |
| 01:55:49 | GPSFan | TomW: flashing now. |
| 01:56:12 | TomW | GPSFan: cool! couldn't wait eh? |
| 01:56:18 | as_ | Any suggestions? |
| 01:57:44 | GPSFan | TomW: x starts fine, but it can't find minisys,minitime, or rxvt. |
| 01:58:13 | GPSFan | cool color ls. ;>) |
| 01:59:34 | TomW | GPSFan: oops, new image. That was my working stuff, I have another. You want the "real" one? |
| 01:59:45 | TomW | GPSFan: heh |
| 01:59:45 | GPSFan | sure... |
| 02:01:14 | GPSFan | the ts seems to work nice, not too badly calibrated either. |
| 02:02:08 | GPSFan | just a wee bit of jitter, but not bad at all. |
| 02:03:27 | GPSFan | downloading again... |
| 02:07:02 | GPSFan | bbiab |
| 02:30:52 | GPSFan | TomW: back, flashed... sweet! messages about can't finding colors, but that's the pallett problem you were talking about. Good Job! |
| 02:31:31 | GPSFan | off to dinner bbl. |
| 02:34:14 | TomW | GPSFan: tnx for the flowers! Lot of hard work. |
| 02:35:39 | sjm | TomW: If it's in a workable state, perhaps you could put an image on tuxscreen.net/download/tinyx ? |
| 02:37:40 | TomW | sjm: just polishing the rough edges of the installation now. I plan to do that, put a downloadable image of the kernel + ramdisk up on the site later (probably tomorrow). Still have issues in building matchbox that I am currently working out. |
| 02:38:06 | sjm | TomW: cool |
| 02:42:34 | Morn | hi everyone |
| 02:44:18 | Morn | is away: while (tired) { sleep ( 5000 ); } |
| 02:44:24 | as_ | Hi sjm/Morn, I think I bricked my phone. |
| 02:44:34 | Morn | as_: ack! |
| 02:44:50 | as_ | I pressed CTRL-D with the flash unlocked. |
| 02:45:35 | Morn | Talk to Tim |
| 02:45:39 | Morn | he might be able to help |
| 02:45:44 | Morn | or you'll need a jtag |
| 02:45:50 | Morn | but I've had a long weekend |
| 02:45:53 | Morn | I should sleep |
| 02:46:00 | as_ | I'm sure JTAG will fix it if theres no other way. |
| 02:46:08 | as_ | Dont worry, sleep. |
| 02:46:18 | as_ | It just ends my fiddling with it for a while ;] |
| 03:05:38 | Aelhaz | neat, tinyx. |
| 03:21:17 | TomW | sjm: image files are here:http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/BuildingTinyX |
| 03:21:24 | TomW | http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/BuildingTinyX |
| 03:22:05 | TomW | fontenot: still around? |
| 03:23:18 | sjm | TomW: nice, I'll take it for a testdrive :) |
| 03:24:14 | TomW | sjm: tnx. |
| 03:41:03 | as_ | Nite all. |
| 03:44:37 | GPSFan | TomW: there a bunch of app's in /usr/X11R6/bin that don't run because there are librarys missing. ie. xeyes, oclock, xset, xdpyinfo, etc. Are the lib sources for these missing libs going to be in build-root? |
| 03:46:53 | TomW | GPSFan: lib sources are in lateset buildroot from cvs, edit make/tinyx to add those libs. I meant to remove those apps, the libXt, LibXaw, LibSM, and libXemu take up almost 500K of the flash file system. |
| 03:51:45 | GPSFan | ok, so adding extra storage (CF, PCMCIA HDD etc) for those libs and additional apps would be the way to go, or customize the apps & neccessary libs to fit into the remaining flash. |
| 03:55:17 | TomW | GPSFan: yes, I made everything go into the /usr/lib and /usr/X11R6 dirs. Since those are normally empty / nonexistant, you could symlink then to your CF device. |
| 03:56:41 | GPSFan | TomW: sounds good, erik's latest stable busybox seems to work nice, I like the colorized ls. |
| 03:57:02 | TomW | GPSFan: yes, and it is 50K smaller!!! |
| 03:57:30 | GPSFan | TomW: amazing... |
| 03:57:41 | TomW | GPSFan: andersee has those bytes trained well, doesn't he? |
| 03:59:05 | TomW | GPSFan: pretty soon, Erik won't be able to squeeze blood out of that "stone", all he'll have is all the air out of his code. Then I think he'll go crazy. :-D |
| 04:00:48 | GPSFan | TomW: I've been using the unstable branch on my other tux for quite some time and have yet to have it crash the tux, there were some fixes and other applets that weren't in the stabel branch that I needed. If he continues the way he is going version .80 of busybox will include the kernel itself and be only 25kbytes. ;>) |
| 04:01:10 | TomW | GPSFan: Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 04:01:10 | TomW | GPSFan: /dev/mtdblock2 3.0M 2.4M 592.0k 81% / |
| 04:01:10 | TomW | ~ |
| 04:01:45 | TomW | GPSFan: tnx, I got another 40K of freespace by getting rid of the non-functional apps. |
| 04:01:58 | GPSFan | TomW: cool.. |
| 04:06:15 | GPSFan | TomW: cul, time for zzz :>O |
| 04:06:53 | TomW | GPSFan: g'nite. |
| 06:36:50 | TomW | yawns |
| 08:52:09 | mallum | hi |
| 10:17:03 | file | hi |
| 10:17:16 | mallum | hi |
| 14:08:14 | sjhill | can someone here please run a simple program on their tuxscreen? |
| 14:08:28 | sjhill | i want to see what some stack/argument variables look like |
| 14:10:20 | sjhill | ? |
| 14:13:20 | LoneTech | sorry, not at home |
| 14:29:24 | prpplague | morning all |
| 14:35:08 | fontenot | there is definitely something screwey with udhcp |
| 14:35:14 | fontenot | it keeps running away |
| 14:35:25 | LoneTech | who gave it legs? |
| 14:37:48 | prpplague | LoneTech: evolution |
| 14:38:43 | LoneTech | ugly MUA. |
| 14:39:26 | fontenot | it diesn't do it immediately - it's after a delay |
| 14:39:42 | fontenot | maybe when it renews its lease |
| 14:51:09 | scanline | is away: scribbling away about analog electronics |
| 14:58:58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: morning |
| 15:02:06 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: morningt |
| 15:02:44 | | fontenot: huh? |
| 15:02:44 | fontenot | ibot: seem tomw |
| 15:02:55 | | tomw was last seen on #tuxscreen 8 hours, 26 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: yawns [Mon Apr 29 07:36:50 2002] |
| 15:02:55 | fontenot | ibot: seen tomw |
| 15:28:43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so whats happening at Century today? |
| 15:30:13 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'm having some serious issues with Busybox inittab while trying to redirect the system console |
| 15:30:53 | Morn | is back (gone 12:46:39) |
| 15:30:59 | Morn | this is too much |
| 15:31:35 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: inittab won't start any of the getty's that I have indicated if the console isn't tty0 |
| 15:32:49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i too have fought with that issue before, although its been awhile |
| 15:32:58 | prpplague | Morn: what is too much? |
| 15:33:39 | Morn | prpplague: a client owes me a lot of money and I threatened to sue them for it, so they tried to block my access and effectivly blocked the whole internet any access |
| 15:33:40 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I'm still trying to figure out whos to blame - inittab or the kernerl |
| 15:33:48 | Morn | so now customers can't even browse web pages |
| 15:33:51 | Morn | it is too funny |
| 15:34:11 | prpplague | Morn: doh |
| 15:34:46 | prpplague | Morn: i love it when customers shoot themselves in the foot, because you sold them the shoe thats on it!lol |
| 15:35:07 | Morn | I just got tired of hearing "THe check is in the mail" |
| 15:35:31 | Morn | so I thought I would offer if they paid 70 cents on the dollar I would just take the money and we would split ways |
| 15:35:46 | Morn | which is better than legal costs and my time to do a law suit |
| 15:35:56 | Morn | and then they go and do this |
| 15:37:12 | prpplague | Morn: are they saying there was a problem with the work? |
| 15:37:36 | Morn | no, I found out they are bouncing payroll checks too |
| 15:38:54 | prpplague | doh |
| 15:39:27 | prpplague | Morn: file a workmans(woman) lien on their property? |
| 15:40:24 | CosmicPenguin | oh, stupid me |
| 15:41:39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: do tell.... |
| 15:41:52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i assume you found the problem.... |
| 15:42:09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yeah, I forgot that the console is passed as an argument to the init script |
| 15:42:30 | mallum | fontenot: I think tinyX is broke |
| 15:42:32 | CosmicPenguin | but I was using /linuxrc - so I need to get the command line arguments and then pass them on when I exec init |
| 15:42:46 | prpplague | ohh |
| 15:43:01 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: Or, at least I think thats the reason why |
| 15:45:20 | Morn | prpplague: I told them to fedex me a check and give me the tracking number |
| 15:45:24 | Morn | we'll see where it goes |
| 15:46:35 | prpplague | Morn: i don't know about where you live, but computer work is covered under the workmans lien code, so you can file a lien on their property untill they sell it or pay you |
| 15:50:29 | prpplague | argh, if i never see another KSH script it will be too soon |
| 15:51:24 | Morn | prpplague: they just emailed me that I will have a fedex tracking number of the check after lunch |
| 15:51:28 | Morn | lets see if it happens |
| 15:52:50 | prpplague | Morn: you'll have to excuse me if i don't hold my breath for ya! lol |
| 15:53:51 | Morn | Perhaps I have too much faith in people |
| 15:54:01 | Morn | or I'm just overly naive |
| 16:04:35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: any word on when those STB's will be available? |
| 16:15:32 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: We're developing as fast as we can. We have a few hardware issues to work through, and then we should be able to start sending out demos |
| 16:15:58 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: The final solution (which also includes servers at the headend) will be available starting in July (hopefully) |
| 16:32:50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: will they be release with the pixil thin client edition? |
| 16:40:26 | prpplague | TomW: morning |
| 16:40:36 | TomW | prpplague: morin' |
| 16:40:42 | sjhill | !%$#!$!# |
| 16:40:48 | sjhill | i hate this dynamic linker |
| 16:40:59 | TomW | prpplague: just finished reading on the net, and the tea is made. |
| 16:41:05 | prpplague | TomW: got time for a single cap question? |
| 16:41:18 | TomW | sjhill: you trying to build absolute code? |
| 16:41:33 | sjhill | no i'm writing the fricking dynmac linker for MIPS and uClibc |
| 16:41:33 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: redirecting the console to another VT is definately freaking out busybox init somehow |
| 16:41:42 | TomW | sjhill: k |
| 16:41:55 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: its a bit difficult to debug, because when I redirect console to the serial port too, then everything works fine |
| 16:41:56 | TomW | prpplague: shoot. |
| 16:42:27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that does sound odd |
| 16:43:28 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: doesn't really matter, since we'll probably end up using the serial port for console anyway (don't want people hitting CTL-ALT-F2 and finding a login prompt) |
| 16:43:37 | prpplague | TomW: the ceramic caps i'm using on my max3232 have a tolerance of +80/-20%, should i be using something with a better tolerance? |
| 16:44:34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: at least provide a flag or something so you can swap it back and forth |
| 16:45:29 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: of course.. :) |
| 16:45:54 | TomW | prpplague: that is pretty loose. I normally am happy with +/- 20%, that is pretty much standard tolerance for monolithic ceramic: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=74830&Row=102628 |
| 16:46:14 | TomW | prpplague: forget the url |
| 16:46:55 | TomW | prpplague: it is specific to me, but go to http://www.digikey.com search for "0.1 uf ceramic" |
| 16:47:01 | prpplague | TomW: i figured as much, these are cheapies from the Shack, guess i need to order some better ones before i cook something |
| 16:47:10 | prpplague | TomW: thanks |
| 16:47:23 | prpplague | TomW: you can go back to your tea now, lol |
| 16:48:06 | TomW | prpplague: digikey is a great place to go to: they have an enourmous selection of components, good priciing, and they even have links to PDF datasheets on the parts you are interested in. I use them *all* the time. |
| 16:48:31 | TomW | prpplague: plus, they will sell you one peice of a part you want (most times). |
| 16:49:25 | prpplague | TomW: ya i buy from them often, however i tend to be impulsive, and i hate waiting the couple of days, lol |
| 16:49:49 | TomW | prpplague: don't scrimp on quality components, else it'll bite you in the butt and you'll spend hours wondering what you did wrong when it turns out to be crappy components. |
| 16:50:17 | prpplague | TomW: guess i'm going to have to put you on retainier for you consulting, lol |
| 16:50:45 | prpplague | TomW: ya i've run the track a few times too many |
| 16:51:10 | TomW | prpplague: I keep stock on hand of the common stuff: 1/4W metal film resistors, 0.001, 0.01, 0.1, 1, 10, 22, 47, 100, 220 ufd caps (ceramic, tant, alum electrolytic). |
| 16:51:56 | TomW | prpplague: I probably have over $10K in stock sitting in parts bins that I have on hand. |
| 16:52:40 | TomW | prpplague: it doesn't take that much to get that value of stock laying around: just an avid interest in putting designs together. ;-) |
| 16:53:08 | TomW | prpplague: sure beats the heck out of being on backorder for something you need... |
| 16:53:45 | TomW | ... like a low-Q 220uf alum electrolytic for a switching regulator circuit. |
| 16:58:35 | prpplague | TomW: ya i was thinking about ordering this - https://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=91&prrfnbr=5320&cgrfnbr=801&ctgys=503;534;801; |
| 17:01:56 | TomW | prpplague: good idea! Those kits are a good thing for a starting-out board designer to have on hand. |
| 17:04:29 | TomW | prpplague: I am a Ham radio operator, I find that going to HamFests (kind of like an RF flea market), you can pick up deeply discounted parts that Hams have picked up someplace (company discarded some components no longer needed) for a very low price. |
| 17:06:19 | TomW | prpplague: I have even picked up tape-reels (automatic insertion) of mixed components, then spent and hour, or two, cutting out the components and stocking them. I use 50 drawer cabinets myself, I found that the 20s were too small (for me). |
| 17:08:32 | TomW | prpplague: ... I have paid $3-$5 for a partial reel with several hundred components on the reel. Everything from 1N404, resistors, axial caps and electrolytics on it. I won't purchase ICs from a hamfest, I don't know how the guy (mis)handled them. |
| 17:10:55 | prpplague | TomW: ya i know what you mean, we have a large swap meet in dallas |
| 17:14:34 | TomW | prpplague: you a Ham? |
| 17:15:06 | prpplague | TomW: no, never got into the Ham stuff |
| 17:15:29 | prpplague | TomW: just an electronics wannabie |
| 17:18:07 | TomW | prpplague: it is a good license to have and easy to get. Once you have the license, you have a wide variety of RF frequencies (bands) you can operate on such as: 50-54, 144-148, 420-450 MHz (as well as many others). The license only costs the price of taking exams ($6.75) and is good for 10years, renewable at no cost. |
| 17:18:26 | TomW | prpplague: RF remote control anyone? |
| 17:19:55 | prpplague | TomW: or extend RF networking? |
| 17:24:56 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 17:25:01 | TomW | prpplague: the license is for use in experimentation. That is what the Amateur Radio License is about, that is why the U.S. Gov't & FCC allow that license: to experiment. Yes, we also have a mandate to foster International GoodWill, the purpose of the license is two-fold. But, you are allowed wide latitude in what you do with the frequencies given to you to use. |
| 17:25:11 | TomW | prpplague: consider it.. |
| 17:25:50 | as_ | Someone making a microwave death ray? |
| 17:25:59 | TomW | mallum: the apm.h stuff seems to work ok. |
| 17:26:03 | mallum | TomW: phew ! |
| 17:26:12 | mallum | TomW: Im trying to figure out Xcolors |
| 17:26:20 | mallum | TomW: driving me up the wall |
| 17:26:59 | prpplague | TomW: i will, i'll have a look |
| 17:27:18 | TomW | as_: actually microwave ovens operate on 1.8-2.2 GHz, they can be retuned to run between 2.4-2.6 GHz (a ham band), they have been used for bouncing radio signals off the moon! |
| 17:27:43 | as_ | Neet, |
| 17:27:59 | as_ | I thought they started of at around 2.5GHz though. |
| 17:28:10 | sjhill | TomW: forget the fact that if you do retune your microwave to 2.4-2.6GHz you can pretty much kiss your 802.11 goodbye |
| 17:28:13 | TomW | as_: Hams have communicated with each other this way. Although, you have to keep in mind that there is over 100 DB of pathloas, you start out with 500-700W of RF... |
| 17:28:33 | as_ | Id have thought the problem would be modulating it. |
| 17:28:43 | TomW | sjhill: hehee |
| 17:29:52 | as_ | Hmm, 2.45GHz according to my info. |
| 17:30:57 | TomW | mallum: matchbox-release-latest still points to the older code (needs apm.h), point the symlink to matchbox-0.2.0 tarball. Keep the matchbox-release-latest link, that way if you upgrade latest distro to 0.2.1 (say), it will break buildroot compile, then we know that you did the versioning change? |
| 17:31:51 | TomW | as_: there has been re-orgs of frequency usage over the years. The microwave ovens are there on a Secondary, Non-Interference basis. |
| 17:32:45 | mallum | TomW: I will re upload 0.2 with the apm fix |
| 17:32:52 | mallum | TomW: its not a change to the code |
| 17:33:01 | TomW | as_: about 6 years ago, they were on 1.8-2.2 GHz, I am not surprised that they were moved. Spectrum is getting valuable. |
| 17:33:04 | mallum | so it dont really constitue a new version |
| 17:33:16 | TomW | mallum: k |
| 17:33:25 | as_ | I wonder if a magnetron was fitted with a coil that would be able to modulate it fast enough to send voice. |
| 17:33:51 | mallum | TomW: and as soon as I make a new version number, people start hassling me saying 'wheres an ipkg of that, deb etc etc' |
| 17:34:31 | TomW | as_: "plate modulation"? Class A operation? It is going to take at least 1 to 1.5 times the audio power to do plate modulation. |
| 17:34:55 | as_ | I was thinking FM modulation. |
| 17:35:29 | as_ | Change the magnetic field the magnetron is in, and you change the resonant frequency. |
| 17:35:35 | TomW | mallum: heh, but think of all that experience you are getting along with the headaches. |
| 17:35:42 | mallum | TomW: did I name that tarball for you ? |
| 17:35:52 | TomW | mallum: ? |
| 17:35:56 | mallum | TomW: I mean did I just name it 0.2.0 anyway |
| 17:36:11 | mallum | TomW: rather than something like 0.2.0-tomw ? |
| 17:36:23 | TomW | mallum: could have, you were pretty tired when we attacked the apm.h prob. |
| 17:36:42 | mallum | TomW: I must have just updated the 0.2.0 |
| 17:36:49 | TomW | mallum: I will do: matchbox-release-latest.tar.gz as you had originally wanted... |
| 17:36:55 | mallum | TomW: so matchbox-latest should still be ok |
| 17:37:01 | TomW | mallum: k |
| 17:37:24 | mallum | TomW: I really dont understand low level C :( |
| 17:37:34 | mallum | bit shifts and masks and stuff |
| 17:37:57 | as_ | Asm is better for that. |
| 17:38:00 | as_ | grins |
| 17:38:36 | TomW | mallum: you would really have to be an assembly language programmer to get to do that. C has often been referred to as nothing more than "glorified assembly language". |
| 17:39:38 | TomW | mallum: that works (matchbox-release-latest.tar.gz), so don't change anything. tnx. |
| 17:39:43 | mallum | TomW: cool |
| 17:40:02 | TomW | mallum: ... now to see if it runs... |
| 17:40:05 | as_ | I think it should be possible to modify a cheep laser pointer to do high bandwidth comms. Just modulate the feedback. |
| 17:40:09 | mallum | TomW: all this color stuff and XImages is doing lots of shifts and the like for the image structures |
| 17:40:15 | mallum | TomW: difficult to follow |
| 17:40:31 | mallum | as_: I used to do z80 when I was a kid |
| 17:41:15 | as_ | I hate 8 bit CPUs. Asm is very confusing on them. I started to learn on a 6502. |
| 17:41:40 | mallum | as_: c64 had one of them didn't it ? |
| 17:41:59 | as_ | Hmm, yes it might well have done. Mine was in a BBC B. |
| 17:42:27 | mallum | ah yes with built in assembler right ? |
| 17:42:35 | as_ | Yep. |
| 17:42:49 | as_ | z80 was a bit more popular becuase you only needed 2 power rails and it generated its own clock. |
| 17:43:44 | as_ | I moved from 6502 directly to an ARM3 which was very nice to code for in asm. |
| 17:44:42 | mallum | as_: archimedes ? |
| 17:44:50 | as_ | Yes : |
| 17:44:52 | as_ | :] |
| 17:46:13 | as_ | OS in 4M of ROM, full gui BASIC/assembler several apps. Boots in about half a second if you turn the memcheck off. |
| 17:46:30 | prpplague | TomW: what kind of wire do you normally use when handwiring prototypes? |
| 17:46:39 | as_ | Its not compressed either. |
| 17:48:28 | as_ | Red :] |
| 17:48:58 | RedBeard | as! |
| 17:49:02 | RedBeard | how goes it? |
| 17:49:22 | prpplague | speaking of red, ibot: seen redbaron |
| 17:49:33 | | redbaron was last seen on #tuxscreen 39 days, 1 hours, 39 minutes and 34 seconds ago, saying: Tangent: Howdy [Thu Mar 21 16:09:59 2002] |
| 17:49:33 | prpplague | ibot: seen redbaron |
| 17:50:05 | as_ | Well, its still bricked, but It wont be perminant. |
| 17:51:16 | as_ | That reminds me, prp, if your at work, can you see if you have a virgin image? |
| 17:51:29 | TomW | prpplague: 30 ga wirewrap wire is good. |
| 17:52:10 | prpplague | as_: ya, i've got a virgin set of blob,kernel and rootfs |
| 17:52:23 | prpplague | as_: 0.4 version i believe |
| 17:52:50 | as_ | Hmm, not what I meant I think, a flash dump of old inferno. |
| 17:52:59 | prpplague | as_: ohh |
| 17:53:11 | prpplague | as_: no i don't think i backed mine up |
| 17:53:15 | prpplague | as_: let me check |
| 17:53:31 | as_ | ITs not vital. |
| 17:54:26 | as_ | If noone has one Ive a second tux I can dump it from when I get JTAG working. |
| 17:54:28 | prpplague | as_: no, and on my notes on the install next to the back procedure i have writen "NOT" |
| 17:54:53 | prpplague | as_: i've got a second tux as well |
| 17:55:08 | prpplague | as_: you need it before this weekend? |
| 17:55:33 | as_ | I doubt it, weekend would be ok. |
| 17:56:17 | as_ | It'll take me a while just to get JTAG working. |
| 17:57:13 | as_ | The main reason I want it anyway is to continue the dissasembly, find out how a few things work. |
| 17:57:56 | as_ | IF this tux isnt fixed by then I can use it to fix it. |
| 17:58:04 | prpplague | as_: ok |
| 18:18:54 | as_ | Hmm, I think now autoboot is disabled I can communicate with the tux via serial. |
| 18:40:43 | Morn | re's |
| 18:41:00 | Morn | prpplague: did you get to those drives this past weekend? |
| 18:46:36 | prpplague | Morn: ya, but not boxed, remind me in a couple of hours |
| 18:46:48 | Morn | When you have time |
| 18:46:50 | Morn | no rush |
| 18:49:17 | prpplague | Morn: its at the top of my list sweet thang, lol |
| 18:49:59 | Morn | :-) |
| 18:50:58 | Morn | I think when solaris 9 comes out in final I'm going to redo this whole machine |
| 19:19:45 | Morn | has anyone got caller id working on the phone yet? |
| 19:20:10 | file | that would require caller id from the phone company too |
| 19:24:57 | Morn | of course |
| 19:31:56 | | fontenot was last seen on #tuxscreen 4 hours, 29 minutes and 1 seconds ago, saying: ibot: seen tomw [Mon Apr 29 16:02:55 2002] |
| 19:31:56 | TomW | ibot seen fontenot |
| 19:32:09 | TomW | fontenot: there? |
| 20:05:39 | as_ | Hiya Tim, Ive pressed Control D on the unlocked flash, Do I need JTAG to fix it, or will serial debug work, or is there another way? |
| 20:07:22 | BZFlag | "fix it" ? what is it doing? |
| 20:07:50 | as_ | Its giving me nothing but a dark screen. |
| 20:08:46 | as_ | I assumed turning off autoboot would just drop me into sboot. |
| 20:10:57 | BZFlag | do you have infernoremote setup |
| 20:11:23 | BZFlag | I've seen phones that thought they were supposed to be in remote debug mode on boot. |
| 20:11:23 | as_ | No. |
| 20:11:34 | as_ | I dont have a serial cable I can use yet either. |
| 20:11:38 | BZFlag | I hooked up inferno remotely and did a "b" to reboot them. |
| 20:12:00 | as_ | Ahh. I thought that might be the case. |
| 20:12:03 | BZFlag | well, it's easier to get that, than to get jtag setup. so try that first. |
| 20:12:37 | as_ | Ok, will do. |
| 20:15:28 | as_ | That reminds me, do you have a flash dump of an unmodified tux? |
| 20:17:29 | as_ | The two versions on the site seem to be the newer version. |
| 20:23:55 | prpplague | TomW: were you planning to use a TS interface on your dev board? |
| 20:24:32 | TomW | prpplague: no. |
| 20:26:51 | as_ | TS interface? |
| 20:27:08 | prpplague | as_: touch screen |
| 20:27:22 | prpplague | TomW: you have any experience with ucb1x00 chips? |
| 20:27:32 | TomW | prpplague: none. |
| 20:27:40 | prpplague | TomW: fun |
| 20:28:09 | as_ | Ahh, should have guessed. |
| 20:29:09 | TomW | prpplague: I have used the ADS7846E, and a 10bit ADC to interface to TS before.. |
| 20:32:03 | prpplague | TomW: don't suppose you've heard from the guys at earthlcd about that mARMalade board? |
| 20:32:26 | TomW | prpplague: nope. |
| 20:32:58 | prpplague | so much to learn so little time |
| 20:33:38 | as_ | Tom, how fast is the interface between the main and comm board running? |
| 20:33:42 | prpplague | TomW: i ordered about $300 worth of parts kits so i can say good ridens to the shack |
| 20:35:05 | BZFlag | as_: I've got an old flash image someplace, but why not use the newer versions? |
| 20:35:50 | as_ | Theres a part dissaembled/commented dump on the site, I'd like to extend that. |
| 20:37:14 | BZFlag | as_: sure. keep commenting, and send me the updates. |
| 20:38:08 | as_ | It'll take me a while before I understand enough to make useful comments. |
| 20:40:51 | kergoth | BZFlag: hey tim, what was the url to your pics of the zaurus internals? |
| 20:49:33 | BZFlag | hmm... on sec... |
| 20:49:40 | kergoth | k |
| 20:52:21 | BZFlag | http://zaurus.sourceforge.net/img/ |
| 20:52:42 | kergoth | k, thanks |
| 20:54:12 | mallum | BZFlag: have you run matchbox on the zaurus ? |
| 21:12:56 | scanline | is back (gone 06:21:48) |
| 21:16:32 | BZFlag | mallum: not yet, no. |
| 21:16:54 | BZFlag | been hacking on a new blob release. got kernel-from-jffs2 code in, but not stable. |
| 21:17:30 | kergoth | ugh, ssh crosscompile isnt fun. uses __umoddi3, __udivdi3, etc.. damn libgcc.a functions |
| 21:17:36 | BZFlag | so I've got a phone with a 3.8M rootfs and no kernel partition. ;-) course I do need to have the kernel in rootfs so there is onlt a 100k more free or so. |
| 21:18:09 | BZFlag | but when I get it stable, we should be able to move to a modular kernel so folks can remove any modules they are not using easily. |
| 21:26:36 | scanline | is away: ZzZz |
| 21:33:33 | kergoth | ack. ideas? arm-linux-ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 0000bf20 |
| 21:42:33 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: ya, I really need to get to that amd flash stuff, but I'm in the middle of finals right now |
| 21:51:57 | prpplague | did anyone see this - http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?threadid=37291 |
| 21:54:39 | CosmicPenguin | Jazelle? (TM) technology for Java (TM) acceleration |
| 21:54:43 | CosmicPenguin | Never heard of that before |
| 21:58:41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: me either |
| 22:00:21 | BZFlag | Russ: no problem. I'm trying my updates on vercel now which is intel |
| 22:09:49 | as_ | Ok, another silly question, Ive just played tetris in inferno window manager, but I dont see remoteinferno, what should I be looking at? |
| 22:12:48 | as_ | Ive found the section of the wiki, nm. |
| 22:51:05 | Russ|werk | hmm...anyone know what kind of heat sink I need to dissapate 6W-10W? |
| 22:51:11 | Russ|werk | is a large copper area enough? |
| 22:55:28 | GPSFan | Russ|werk: this is probably more than you need but a good resource: http://209.58.132.52/technical/index.shtml |
| 22:56:18 | as_ | You should have thermal figures for the heatsink. |
| 22:56:19 | as_ | In degrees/watt or other way around. |
| 23:04:15 | | tomw was last seen on #tuxscreen 2 hours, 31 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying: prpplague: nope. [Mon Apr 29 21:32:26 2002] |
| 23:04:15 | fontenot | ibot: seen tomw |
| 23:05:48 | fontenot | what the hell is going on? |
| 23:11:38 | Russ|werk | as_: I only need to dissapate about 6-10W |
| 23:12:07 | Russ|werk | its a power mosfet, with a Rds of 0.10ohm max |
| 23:12:24 | Russ|werk | er, thats not 6-10W |
| 23:12:50 | Russ|werk | 6A, so 0.6V drop, er, ya it is, but 4W-8W probably |
| 23:13:57 | CosmicPenguin | is away: Uh, oh.. the weasel got out again... |
| 23:14:52 | sjm | I have used a high-side driver, switching 8A at 13.8V, with an Rds(on) of 15mOhm - heatsink was done in copper, double-sided with lots of solder-filled vias. No problems. |
| 23:15:44 | as2 | Re. |
| 23:16:13 | as2 | Russ, a list of heatsinks should have a thermal performance rating, in degrees per watt, or vice versa. |
| 23:16:35 | as2 | You can then work out if the termperature you get from a heatsink is ok for the device. |
| 23:17:04 | as2 | 50C is fine, which is 30C over room temp, 70C is rather pushing it. |
| 23:17:05 | Russ|werk | 15mOhm? that sounds *really* high |
| 23:17:21 | as2 | Hmm, Ohm is wrong units. |
| 23:17:37 | as2 | Are the heatsinks online? |
| 23:18:03 | sjm | 15 milli ohm (0.015 Ohm) |
| 23:18:20 | Russ|werk | ah, this one is 5-10 times that |
| 23:18:24 | as2 | Yeah, only that isnt a thermal unit. |
| 23:18:36 | Russ|werk | but a constant 6A, and spikes up to 8A |
| 23:19:01 | as2 | Ahh, thats the saturated resistance of the mosfet? |
| 23:19:18 | sjm | as2: you missed my previous comment :) Here it is again - |
| 23:19:29 | sjm | have used a high-side driver, switching 8A at 13.8V, with an Rds(on) of 15mOhm - heatsink was done in copper, double-sided with lots of solder-filled vias. No problems. |
| 23:19:29 | Russ|werk | static drain source on resistance |
| 23:20:25 | as2 | Thats about 1 Watt then. |
| 23:20:31 | Russ|werk | I only get copper on one side |
| 23:20:57 | Russ|werk | 0.1ohm * 6A^2 = 3.6W |
| 23:21:01 | as2 | If its only switching that is. |
| 23:21:27 | Russ|werk | its not for a power supply, its a replacement to a relay, so its always on |
| 23:21:31 | as2 | Where did you get 0.1Ohm from? |
| 23:21:36 | Russ|werk | the data sheet |
| 23:21:48 | as2 | Oh right. |
| 23:22:09 | Russ|werk | http://eu.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/5369.pdf |
| 23:22:09 | as2 | I was confused as to which were the right numbers. |
| 23:22:30 | as2 | That sounds relatic for a power mosfet. |
| 23:22:35 | as2 | Realistic. |
| 23:25:24 | Russ|werk | ok, it lists some thermal data too |
| 23:26:22 | as2 | If you can insulate it electrically and bolt it to the case that would be fine. |
| 23:26:58 | Russ|werk | Thermal Resistance Junction-case, I'm guessing this this is for the the metal tab |
| 23:27:32 | Russ|werk | Thermal Resistance Junction-ambient, Is this for the blank case, no heatsink? |
| 23:27:54 | Russ|werk | Thermal Resistance Case-sink, is this for when the case connected to a heatsink? |
| 23:28:07 | Russ|werk | the values are 4.3, 100, 1.5 C/W respecively |
| 23:29:03 | as2 | Those values arnt needed, as soon as you put a heatsink on there only the values for that matter. |
| 23:29:32 | as2 | Hmm, you might get away with it uncased though. |
| 23:29:46 | as2 | Err, without a heatsink I mean. |
| 23:29:53 | Russ|werk | that would be ideal |
| 23:30:53 | as2 | Hmm, except I dont follow those numbers. |
| 23:31:01 | as2 | I'll look at the pdf. |
| 23:33:34 | sjm | junction-case is the thermal resistance from the internal PN junction to the plastic casing. junction-ambient is the thermal resistance from the PN junction to the outside air, case-sink is the thermal resistance from the tab on the casing to an external heatsink. These numbers make sense. |
| 23:34:21 | as2 | Yeah I had the nasty feeling it would be. 4 Watts*100 would be the temp with no heatsink. |
| 23:34:50 | sjm | yep, 100degC/W with no heatsink |
| 23:35:28 | as2 | The easy way, and also one of the best is to use a thermal block, and mount it on the case of whatever your working on. |
| 23:35:53 | as2 | So its insulated electrically, but it takes away your thermal energy. |
| 23:37:18 | Russ|werk | so, I make a large copper area going to my mouting hole |
| 23:37:50 | as2 | Can you put the MOSFET at the edge and blot it to the case? |
| 23:37:57 | as2 | Bolt. |
| 23:38:11 | as2 | If not your best using a heatsink. |
| 23:38:40 | as2 | If you want to make it yourself, try looking at some common small heatsinks to get an idea how big you need to make it. |
| 23:39:25 | Russ|werk | there is no bolt in the DPAK case |
| 23:39:39 | as2 | DPAK? |
| 23:40:03 | Russ|werk | its in the datasheet |
| 23:41:11 | as2 | The IPAK case seems to have a hole in it. |
| 23:41:45 | as2 | So I think does the DPAK, the bolt goes through that. |
| 23:42:56 | as2 | Its something of an ungly case, but the back of it should be metal designed to make thermal contact with the sink. |
| 23:43:03 | Russ|werk | I don't think that is a hole |
| 23:43:08 | Russ|werk | I think that is just a mark |
| 23:43:20 | Russ|werk | there is no dimension for it |
| 23:44:15 | Russ|werk | that tab is actually the source as far as I can tell |
| 23:45:50 | as2 | There isnt a dimention for it, but this style case should have a hole, or a metal tab at the back extended with a hole in it. |
| 23:46:34 | Russ|werk | I've seen components exactly like this on motherboards |
| 23:47:03 | as2 | Hmm, odd. |
| 23:47:05 | Russ|werk | no hole, and no heatsink, just copper |
| 23:48:13 | as2 | You might be right. I havnt used this style case. Id be inclined to find a different case for this mosfet. |
| 23:48:41 | as2 | You need it mounted to the heatsink tightly, possibly with a little thermal paste. |
| 23:49:49 | sjm | Russ|werk: Look at this: http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~steve/dpak.gif - to work out how big you need to make your heatsink. |
| 23:50:04 | Russ|werk | ah, cool |
| 23:50:28 | Russ|werk | hmm...doesn't go up to 3.6W |
| 23:50:52 | sjm | extrapolate :) |
| 23:51:12 | Russ|werk | its exponential |
| 23:52:02 | Russ|werk | looks like it levels at about 2.2W |
| 23:53:34 | as2 | I think its expoential becuase the amount of copper is fixed and its dimentions change. |
| 23:53:56 | as2 | It says 2.0 oz Copper. |
| 23:54:31 | Russ|werk | http://us.st.com/stonline/prodpres/packages/md/dpak_5.htm |
| 23:54:35 | Russ|werk | hmm...same thing |
| 23:55:48 | as2 | PCB copper area, what does that mean..... |
| 23:55:51 | as2 | Ohhhh. |
| 23:56:18 | as2 | I think it means soldered to the circuitboard. And 2oz is the standard thickness of copper. |
| 23:56:28 | Russ|werk | right, I guessed that |
| 23:57:01 | as2 | Your HS will be much thicker, so it wont level off like that. |
| 23:58:33 | Russ|werk | HS |
| 23:58:34 | Russ|werk | ? |
| 23:58:40 | as2 | You'll need a clip to keep it on if you use that case though. Need to be a strong one. |
| 23:58:44 | as2 | Heat Sink. |
| 23:59:31 | as2 | You wont need to bother isolating it though. |
| 23:59:44 | Russ|werk | you think I'll need one then? |
| 23:59:45 | as2 | So long as it doesnt short with anything. |
| 23:59:54 | as2 | Oh yes, without a doubt. |
