| 00:00:06 | cbiffle | Well, in any case, if you can figure out where your electrons are coming from, I'm concerned that your GPS may assume a common ground between power (assumed to be a PS/2 port) and the serial port (assumed to be on the same machine), and that could cause bad things. |
| 00:00:51 | cpenguin_meeting | cbiffle: thats a good point. |
| 00:01:16 | cbiffle | Like, say, the TuxScreen deciding that power is bad and rebooting. |
| 00:01:39 | cbiffle | (Credit where credit is due, vosque initially suggested this from the next cube over.) |
| 00:01:44 | cpenguin_meeting | Which would be expected, especially if power and ground are inverted on the serial port |
| 00:02:19 | cbiffle | Depending on how much current the GPS can source/sink, and what sort of logic is driving its I/O, it might very well bring ground up near +5. :-) |
| 00:02:30 | vosque | bzzzzzrt |
| 00:02:52 | vosque | (the sound of a +5 ground, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all the week.) |
| 00:03:11 | cpenguin_meeting | mmmm.... +5 ground..... lots of pretty blue smoke |
| 00:03:14 | as2 | Waiting to get in, or waiting to get out? |
| 00:03:15 | cpenguin_meeting | Smells good too |
| 00:03:15 | cbiffle | Sounded more like transformer oscillation under load to me, but hey. |
| 00:04:04 | jacques | TomW: you were looking for me? |
| 00:04:55 | TomW | hmm, oh! I have the ts working, sort of.. |
| 00:05:16 | cbiffle | Reeeeally? What'd you do? |
| 00:05:35 | TomW | edit ts.c and change the /dev/ts to /dev/ucb1x00-ts and it works. It is backwards moving and jittery. |
| 00:06:06 | jacques | TomW: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 00:06:20 | TomW | at least it is doing something now instead of just sitting on the screen, frozen in place. |
| 00:06:21 | jacques | TomW: to quote ibot, "that doesn't sound right" |
| 00:06:35 | vosque | hm... |
| 00:06:45 | jacques | TomW: did you see the patch on the wiki? at the end of the tinyx howto? |
| 00:06:50 | jacques | that actually works |
| 00:06:51 | vosque | cbiffle has a not-quite-functional digitizer. |
| 00:06:55 | vosque | He might be interested in this. |
| 00:06:58 | TomW | probably not, but I am involved with pulling tinuyx source from cvs. |
| 00:07:05 | jacques | ok cool |
| 00:07:05 | KeyserSoze | i fixed it. all i had to do was crawl under my desk, and hook up the GPS ps2 to my PC, instead of my dc-dc converter. |
| 00:07:05 | KeyserSoze | now, i can hook it up to the dc-dc converter, and it won't restart. |
| 00:07:06 | KeyserSoze | i keep repeating hooking up the GPS just like I did before, and I cannot duplicate the reboot |
| 00:07:09 | cbiffle | Yes, my digitizer is...very quiet. |
| 00:07:56 | cbiffle | I cat /dev/ucb1x00-ts and get nothing. Does anyone have suggestions for what to try? I'm running the 2.4.18 kernel. |
| 00:08:11 | as2 | Digitiser? |
| 00:08:23 | KeyserSoze | cbiffle: the electrons start in my wall. they go to my radio shack 12V car-adapter power supply, and then to my 12V->5V dc-dc converter. |
| 00:08:24 | TomW | I haven't incorported the ts_read() stuff yet. If someone else has time, integrate it and I'll take what you have and patch it in. |
| 00:08:32 | prpplague | howdy all |
| 00:08:33 | cpenguin_meeting | cbiffle: stupid question - you applied all the nessesary tuxscreen patches? |
| 00:08:47 | jacques | TomW: I have a whole working ts.c you can generate a patch against |
| 00:09:00 | jacques | TomW: shall I put it up for download? |
| 00:09:01 | cbiffle | cpenguin_meeting: Well, I built it out of the buildroot-tux CVS tree. Are they applied there? |
| 00:09:08 | cpenguin_meeting | Yeah |
| 00:09:16 | cbiffle | cpenguin_meeting: Okay, groovy. |
| 00:09:22 | TomW | jacques: ok, I'll take that and look at it. |
| 00:09:24 | KeyserSoze | i'm so confused. i don't know what anyone said, i get lines 15 at a time in IRC. i hope I answered any questions anyone had. |
| 00:09:24 | cbiffle | Are there still known issues with some digitzers? |
| 00:09:37 | cbiffle | KeyserSoze: Hm, IRC in batch mode. |
| 00:09:49 | cpenguin_meeting | cbiffle: not at this point |
| 00:09:54 | as2 | What sort of digitizer? |
| 00:10:21 | cbiffle | Because the Wiki seems to think they all work; I feel like a bit of an exception to that, since mine, well...doesn't. :-) |
| 00:10:42 | cbiffle | If it is in fact broken, anyone know if Tim takes exchanges? |
| 00:10:48 | cpenguin_meeting | cbiffle: yes |
| 00:11:27 | cbiffle | cpenguin_meeting: Thank god. I didn't want to hack serial mouse support in. :-) |
| 00:11:38 | jacques | TomW: http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/xcompile/ts.c |
| 00:11:51 | KeyserSoze | ahah! it rebooted again! |
| 00:11:55 | as2 | Ahh, like a grpahics tablet? |
| 00:12:10 | cpenguin_meeting | time to go home |
| 00:12:18 | | CosmicPenguin is nothing but a tepid coagulation of reeky cat-hair-balls. |
| 00:12:18 | cpenguin_meeting | ibot: insult CosmicPenguin |
| 00:12:25 | cpenguin_meeting | take that CosmicPenguin! |
| 00:12:25 | vosque | ooO! |
| 00:12:34 | | cbiffle is nothing but a tepid tongueful of warped slurpee-backwash. |
| 00:12:34 | vosque | ibot: insult cbiffle |
| 00:12:34 | as2 | That reminds me, anyone know about the 'Unbuffered parralel interface' on the mainboard? |
| 00:13:07 | cbiffle | as2: You on tuxscreen-devel? |
| 00:13:15 | | ibot is nothing but a culturally-unsound petrification of vain pods. |
| 00:13:15 | cbiffle | ibot: insult ibot |
| 00:13:19 | cbiffle | SO THERE. |
| 00:13:28 | as2 | I'm not on anything yet. |
| 00:13:55 | TomW | goes back to scratching his head |
| 00:13:55 | cbiffle | The parallel interface seems to be buffered, actually. It provides about six pins off of the GPIO (general-purpose I/O) collection and some address lines. I'm not really sure how to use it for anything worthwhile yet. |
| 00:13:59 | as2 | I only powered up my tux for the first time yesterday. |
| 00:14:12 | cbiffle | as2: Ah! Congrats! Have you Linuxified it yet? |
| 00:14:13 | | jg was last seen on #intimate 1 days, 4 hours, 25 minutes and 16 seconds ago, saying: Yup. [Mon Apr 22 20:48:57 2002] |
| 00:14:13 | jacques | ibot: seen jg |
| 00:14:15 | cbiffle | coins words. |
| 00:14:24 | file | what's this device now? |
| 00:14:27 | as2 | Not yet. |
| 00:14:33 | | somebody said The TuxScreen was the first embedded system PicoGUI runs on that has a color LCD |
| 00:14:33 | cbiffle | file: The TuxScreen? |
| 00:14:35 | file | oh |
| 00:14:44 | file | the Tuxscreen runs Linux though |
| 00:14:49 | as2 | I have to build a PFI faker becuase I'm in the UK. |
| 00:14:50 | cbiffle | file: Yes. |
| 00:15:06 | file | oh now I think I understand |
| 00:15:36 | as2 | cbiffle, is it on any of the schematics? I looked, but I didnt see anything. |
| 00:15:40 | cbiffle | file: The TuxScreen does not natively run Linux; it comes with Inferno. |
| 00:15:47 | file | cbiffle : I know that |
| 00:15:50 | cbiffle | as2: Lemme check my inbox, i was just pestering the list about this yesterday. |
| 00:15:54 | cbiffle | file: Groovy, just checking. :-) |
| 00:15:55 | sjm | as2: you only need that for the phone, linux/ts works without it. |
| 00:16:01 | file | knows everything |
| 00:16:32 | KeyserSoze | i figured out when exactly the problem occurs. it happens iff 1) the GPS is already connected to the tux 2) the GPS is already plugged into the 5V source 3) as soon as I connect the DC-DC converter to the 12V source. |
| 00:16:40 | as2 | I want to look at inferno before I swap to linux. |
| 00:16:50 | cbiffle | as2: Yes, it's in the schematics, header J602. |
| 00:17:08 | as2 | Which schematic? |
| 00:17:21 | cbiffle | as2: I dunno about yours, but my copy of Inferno was very primitive. Things like you couldn't navigate inside most text fields using the arrows, Tab and Shift+Tab move in the same direction, etc. |
| 00:17:35 | KeyserSoze | so my dc-dc converter does not go off->on, it goes off->haywire->on |
| 00:17:47 | cbiffle | KeyserSoze: That's usually the case. Switching noise. |
| 00:17:57 | cbiffle | as2: I think it's labelled J602. In the Wiki under Schematics. |
| 00:18:52 | KeyserSoze | cbiffle: the tux and/or GPS must not like it very much. |
| 00:19:08 | KeyserSoze | but my PC has no problem with it. |
| 00:19:18 | as2 | Not under /download/schematics? |
| 00:19:30 | as2 | I have a hell of a job finding anything on this site. |
| 00:20:26 | cbiffle | as2: Yeah, I am not a fan of Wiki. Go to the Wiki link off the main page and use the Googlesearchomatic to find Schematics. |
| 00:21:09 | as2 | tuxscreen.net/download/schematics has them I think. |
| 00:21:28 | cbiffle | Probmobly. |
| 00:21:56 | as2 | Ahh, seperate file called j602, coulnt see the wood for the trees. |
| 00:22:06 | cbiffle | Yes. |
| 00:22:57 | as2 | I'm after mainly practicing my ARM code skills, not coded asm for it in a few years. |
| 00:23:21 | as2 | But if I can interface electronics projects too it, that would be very cool. |
| 00:24:25 | prpplague | as2: TomW is developing a nice dev board to interface to the tuxscreen core, it's sure to be a nice way of prototyping custom projects |
| 00:24:43 | cbiffle | What signals are on that massive central header? |
| 00:24:58 | prpplague | cbiffle: pretty much all of the sa-1100 lines |
| 00:25:41 | as2 | That sounds very interesting. |
| 00:25:55 | prpplague | http://www.cyberiansoftware.com |
| 00:26:24 | prpplague | http://www.cyberiansoftware.com/TuxScreen/StrongARM-perf.html |
| 00:26:46 | cbiffle | Enough sa-1100 lines to interface one o' them little companion chips? 1200, is it? |
| 00:28:01 | cbiffle | 1101. That's what I meant. |
| 00:30:28 | as2 | I might be inclined to use a FPGA instead of discrete latches. |
| 00:30:53 | cbiffle | *nod* I'm with you on that one. I like to hang massive FPGAs off of all my systems for coprocessing. :-) |
| 00:30:55 | as2 | I really like the idea of reconfigerable hardware. |
| 00:31:14 | cbiffle | I'd like a DSP that I can reprogram from the main CPU; that'd be good enough for me. "Hey! DSP! Do my JPEG encoding. Hey! Do my Vorbis decoding." |
| 00:31:35 | as2 | Which are you fond of?, I'm using Xilinx 4005's. |
| 00:31:50 | as2 | And what do you mean by massive? |
| 00:33:30 | cbiffle | Xilinx's are nice. And I suppose by massive I just mean larger than your average PAL. :-) If it's big enough to implement some encryption acceleration on, I'm good. |
| 00:33:51 | vosque | "Hey! DSP! Make me coffee!" |
| 00:34:25 | as2 | 4005's are about 9k gates. DES ranks at around 30k gates (Ive been told) for a 1 clock per key. |
| 00:34:36 | prpplague | argh, you guys disgust me, you're talking about programing DSP and FPGA like you were programming your vcr, lol |
| 00:34:41 | as2 | Trouble is they get very expensive. |
| 00:34:45 | cbiffle | Naw, not DES. RC4. Sooo much easier to accelerate. |
| 00:35:22 | cbiffle | (Because it's so damn simple.) |
| 00:35:59 | as2 | I must check the price of Virtex2's, they go up to about 10M gates. |
| 00:36:13 | as2 | At like 300MHz. |
| 00:36:18 | as2 | But the prices are insane. |
| 00:36:26 | cbiffle | 10M? Jeez. Because I needed a 300mhz 486 on an FPGA. :-) |
| 00:36:28 | scanline | is away: building a space invaders game with logic gates |
| 00:36:41 | cbiffle | has actually built pong using analog circuitry and laser pointers. |
| 00:36:52 | as2 | Haha, cool. |
| 00:37:22 | as2 | Aparently 800k gates will do a pentium 2 easily. |
| 00:37:31 | cbiffle | Reeeeally. Hadn't tried. |
| 00:38:04 | as2 | I wonder how many gates an ARM chip would need. Not many ID think. |
| 00:38:12 | cbiffle | They're really simple, for the most part. |
| 00:38:23 | cbiffle | It's quickly becoming my new favorite ASM architecture (displacing the 68k). |
| 00:38:58 | as2 | I learned asm on the ARM first and then moved over to x86. |
| 00:39:34 | as2 | x86 is this frankinsteins monster of a system compaired to arm. |
| 00:40:24 | prpplague | x86 is simply scarey |
| 00:40:28 | as2 | Ive read about a computer with FPGAs in it designed to be rapidly reconfigurable to the current task. |
| 00:40:44 | file | viagra? O.O |
| 00:41:06 | prpplague | file: ??????????? |
| 00:41:09 | cbiffle | *nod* Some startup in the past couple of years designed a chip that was basically a minimal MIPS in the corner and the rest of the silicon (maybe 3x the gates actually used by the CPU) was soft-reconfigurable by the CPU itself. |
| 00:41:27 | file | is out of it |
| 00:41:34 | cbiffle | prpplague: That was a question about viagra followed by a minimalist image of a small-beaked owl wearing horn-rimmed spectacles. |
| 00:42:15 | prpplague | cbiffle: i see........... |
| 00:42:27 | as2 | I keep getting the feeling theres a better way to go about computing. |
| 00:42:38 | prpplague | cbiffle: cat /proc/brain | grep understanding |
| 00:42:55 | file | VIAGRA! |
| 00:42:57 | file | faints |
| 00:43:08 | jacques | ? |
| 00:43:15 | as2 | His owl is called viagra? |
| 00:43:18 | file | arm... pain... |
| 00:43:20 | cbiffle | Isn't yours? |
| 00:43:40 | cbiffle | as2: I like dynamically reconfigurable circuitry. Have you read about the circuit-evolution some guy in England's doing? |
| 00:43:43 | as2 | Either that or hes taken viagra and is now dying of a heard attack. |
| 00:44:03 | cbiffle | More likely, he's losing blood to the brain as it goes elsewhere. |
| 00:44:05 | file | is young |
| 00:44:08 | file | I don't need viagra! |
| 00:44:20 | as2 | Hmm, not sure. Ive read about one system where genetic algs were used to evolve a FPGA to solve a frequency analysis problem. |
| 00:45:00 | as2 | The results were... Worrying. |
| 00:45:01 | cbiffle | *nod* That's the one. The one where when they printed out what the circuit would look like, it made absolutely no sense; unconnected gates, traces that went nowhere, etc. |
| 00:45:22 | cbiffle | Because it worked by exploiting the properties of -that- -specific- -gate- -array-, which weren't necessarily shown in the circuit. I dig that. |
| 00:45:26 | prpplague | as2: is was reading the other night about FPGA structures being used for neural networked learning |
| 00:45:37 | as2 | Yeah. Unconnected gates in the design, which if they took them out it stopped working. |
| 00:45:44 | cbiffle | Right. Voodoo electronics. |
| 00:45:54 | prpplague | as2: seems like FPGA structires are perfect for adaptive computing |
| 00:45:55 | as2 | Hmm. Was that the CAM brain? |
| 00:46:58 | sjm | prpplague: My lab partner at uni did an FPGA neural net learning project back in the early 90's... Used a hypercube configuration. |
| 00:47:38 | as2 | I like the idea of FPGAs being used to compute problems. The whole lookuptable/latch seems a very fundamentally good idea to me. |
| 00:48:11 | as2 | Connection machines used hypercube. I have the feeling feynmann was the one who suggested that. |
| 00:50:20 | cbiffle | <silly>Hypercube? What, like one of those G4s?</silly> |
| 00:51:29 | sjm | He used a '3D-like' structure, with 8 FPGAs connected in a cube arrangement. |
| 00:51:44 | cbiffle | Groovy. |
| 00:52:18 | cbiffle | One of the chips I designed in a digital design class recently was a tiny microprocessor intended to be used in three-dimensional matrices for data manipulation. Sort of a FPPA (where the second P is processor). |
| 00:52:52 | as2 | Connection machines had 2^16 CPUs. I imagine the hypercube wiring diagram sends people into fits. |
| 00:53:11 | sjm | I got stuck with a DSP project - http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~steve/dsp.html |
| 00:56:52 | TomW | jacques: looks like I will give up in getting the cvs working. Takes too darned long to download from xfree86.org. |
| 00:57:11 | KeyserSoze | as2: genetic-programming.com? |
| 00:59:31 | as2 | Good grief, 1000 PII's. |
| 01:00:00 | jacques | TomW: :-\ ok, how about ts.c ? :-D |
| 01:00:17 | as2 | Ive not seen that site before, thats interesting. |
| 01:01:21 | as2 | They must think there going to get massive returns to get 1000 node beowolf cluster. |
| 01:01:40 | cbiffle | That, or they got a good deal on post-IPO 'puters. |
| 01:01:48 | as2 | It'll be next to worthless 5 years after they buy it. |
| 01:01:54 | vosque | really^12 good deal. |
| 01:01:59 | TomW | jacques: ... working ... |
| 01:02:44 | cbiffle | So. Does anyone have a suggestion for how I could do some diagnostics on my touchscreen to decide whether or not to return the beast? |
| 01:04:00 | as2 | Umm, weigh it in air and in water to find out if its made of gold or not. |
| 01:04:19 | jacques | cbiffle: build a microwindows root image and try that? |
| 01:04:54 | as2 | Is there a checksum function for the flash? |
| 01:05:32 | sjm | cbiffle: http://tuxscreen.net/download/microwin-touchscreen/ |
| 01:05:39 | cbiffle | I could md5 the device, I suppose. Everything else works, though; I just don't get anything out of /dev/ucb1x00-ts |
| 01:05:55 | cbiffle | sjm: I remember trying that, I don't remember what happened. |
| 01:07:02 | cbiffle | I do know that I get zero data out of ucb1x00-ts when I just cat it, and the two other TuxScreens I've tried have. |
| 01:07:23 | prpplague | sjm: nice design, very geometric |
| 01:07:55 | prpplague | sjm: love the placement of tants |
| 01:07:55 | sjm | prpplague: ? |
| 01:08:10 | prpplague | sjm; the dsp project |
| 01:08:15 | sjm | oh! Yeah, well it's wire-wrapped :) |
| 01:08:41 | cbiffle | sjm: Oh, right! It's source. I'm not on Linux and have great difficulty building Linux binaries. Is there a jffs2 image available? |
| 01:09:02 | cbiffle | (The available toolchains do not play well with FreeBSD; they run fine, but their include paths are broken.) |
| 01:09:08 | sjm | cbiffle: Hmm.... I could make one available. |
| 01:09:36 | cbiffle | If it's not any trouble, it'd make me happy. :-) But I can always borrow vosque's Linux box and do the build. |
| 01:09:49 | as2 | Ok, this site has moved through the clever and into the downright insane "The fact that genetic programming can evolve entities that are competitive with human-produced results suggests that genetic programming can be used as an "invention machine" to create new and useful patentable inventions. |
| 01:09:51 | vosque | :( |
| 01:10:19 | sjm | cbiffle: I'll upload one tonight (I'm at work, tux stuff is at home) |
| 01:10:28 | cbiffle | sjm: same here, no hurry. :-) |
| 01:10:36 | cbiffle | Remind me to found #tuxscreen-slackers. |
| 01:10:49 | vosque | notes that it might be good to suggest when 'tonight' is. :) |
| 01:11:06 | vosque | I made that mistake for trunk once. |
| 01:11:07 | cbiffle | Ah, yes, sjm, what sort of a day cycle are you on? |
| 01:11:28 | vosque | Promised someone a tarball by my evening. Turns out he was on the other side of the planet. |
| 01:11:28 | sjm | looks at the clock, and it says 11:17 am |
| 01:11:30 | vosque | Oops. :) |
| 01:11:52 | cbiffle | sjm: Asia? |
| 01:11:59 | sjm | australia |
| 01:12:15 | cbiffle | Longitudinally similar. :-) |
| 01:12:20 | sjm | yeah |
| 01:12:52 | cbiffle | We(vosque and I)'re in pseudo-Australia... :-) AZ, USA. |
| 01:13:41 | sjm | doesn't remeber rainforests and surf beaches in AZ :) |
| 01:13:51 | cbiffle | They're indoors, but we got 'em. |
| 01:13:57 | vosque | well, yuma. |
| 01:14:15 | cbiffle | vosque: keep in mind that 'beach' most places is not just dunes, but may actually include water. |
| 01:14:29 | sjm | hence the work 'surf' |
| 01:14:35 | vosque | my distance gets all bunged up in desert, sorry. |
| 01:14:37 | sjm | /s/work/word |
| 01:16:33 | cbiffle | If I can get this oom issue with 2.4.18 and the touchscreen issues resolved, I'll make my busybox/QtE/Opie install available. |
| 01:16:45 | vosque | TuxFeed |
| 01:16:48 | cbiffle | My big goal right now is to coax QtE into linking against uClibc. |
| 01:16:53 | cbiffle | vosque: Precisely. |
| 01:17:02 | vosque | I'll probably carry the code over to the iPAQ. |
| 01:17:12 | vosque | since it'll be a *lot* smaller than Familiar. |
| 01:17:35 | cbiffle | *nod* Familiar really is quite large. I had to use CF to get it up. |
| 01:17:39 | KeyserSoze | is displaying GPS data on his tuxscreen, finally. |
| 01:17:45 | cbiffle | Yaaaaay! |
| 01:17:45 | vosque | Yay! |
| 01:17:49 | vosque | happy dance! |
| 01:17:54 | sjm | cool |
| 01:18:23 | vosque | Now, may I ask, what you're doing with a GPS on a tux? |
| 01:18:36 | cbiffle | 'Where is my desk? There is my desk. Where is my desk? There is my desk.' |
| 01:19:20 | cbiffle | Perhaps he intends to make it portable. It would make finding your phone a lot easier. Just go on the web, pull up its server, and overlay your room on the lat/long coords. |
| 01:20:19 | vosque | Hey, I'm already logged in! |
| 01:20:25 | cbiffle | Different Sam, smartass. |
| 01:20:27 | prpplague | knee how Sammy! hows life in tapei? |
| 01:20:29 | vosque | Oh, right. |
| 01:20:59 | as2 | Someone was mounting their tuxscreen in a card as I recall. |
| 01:21:08 | as2 | Err, car. |
| 01:21:12 | vosque | hmm |
| 01:21:14 | vosque | not a bad idea. |
| 01:21:25 | vosque | especially if you could get the IPphone thing going |
| 01:21:44 | as2 | How would it connect to the internet? |
| 01:22:02 | vosque | depends on where you are. |
| 01:22:09 | vosque | If you can't it's still cool, though. |
| 01:22:10 | Sammy | prpplague: feel like need more sleeping ...... |
| 01:22:28 | vosque | navigation stuff is useful. |
| 01:22:28 | prpplague | Sammy: welcome to the like of a geek |
| 01:23:09 | prpplague | vosque: but i already know where all the beer stores are...... |
| 01:23:19 | cbiffle | Precisely. Distance to beer: 6.2km. |
| 01:23:34 | vosque | ah. |
| 01:23:36 | vosque | I just moved here. |
| 01:23:43 | vosque | So I don't know where all the beer places are yet. |
| 01:23:50 | vosque | Only 10-15-ish. |
| 01:23:54 | prpplague | lol |
| 01:26:22 | pmisfit | is back (gone 07:24:49) |
| 01:26:22 | TomW | jacques: ok, that works! Acts more like X every hour. ;-) |
| 01:27:02 | pmisfit | wonders if "acts more like X" means "causes massive swapping" |
| 01:27:32 | vosque | 'giant borg-like source tree' |
| 01:27:32 | cbiffle | thinks he means "Requires something like Qt on top of it to make programming possible for mortal humans." |
| 01:27:45 | vosque | WE LIKE X, HONEST |
| 01:27:57 | cbiffle | Hey, I use it both at home and at work and when I'm spelling xylophone. |
| 01:28:11 | TomW | pmisfit: heh |
| 01:28:46 | TomW | heh, yeah the source tree is a whopper! |
| 01:29:23 | pmisfit | i actually love x... as a windowing system. as a programming environment, haven't yet tried it... |
| 01:30:04 | cbiffle | Okay, hey, guys, another issue for y'all. If I boot the phone with a PCMCIA-CF adapter in place (with card), it places it at /dev/hda. If I put the card in -after- booting, /dev/hda is still a fake device and I can't mount it. Thoughts? |
| 01:30:45 | pmisfit | cbiffle: how often do you spell xylophone? |
| 01:30:59 | cbiffle | Xylophone? Twice so far today. |
| 01:31:07 | pmisfit | lol |
| 01:31:29 | cbiffle | So if today is representative, I've officially spelled xylophone more often than I've needed network-transparent windowing. *grin* |
| 01:32:37 | cbiffle | Do CF cards need a reset signal, or what? Does anyone else use CompactFlash in their phone? |
| 01:32:42 | vosque | I use network transparent windowing all the time. |
| 01:32:57 | cbiffle | Transparent network terminals != network transparent windowing, vosque. |
| 01:33:04 | vosque | Else I can't use the laptop in the backyard....damn. |
| 01:33:35 | cbiffle | That would be RF-transparent windowing. |
| 01:33:46 | cbiffle | I knew I shouldn't have used that leaded glass. |
| 01:33:59 | vosque | or the paint. |
| 01:34:22 | cbiffle | Okay, well, let me rephrase. Is cardmgr supposed to be up in the background at all times to do things like spawning the ide start script? |
| 01:34:40 | TomW | cbiffle: yes. |
| 01:35:15 | TomW | cbiffle: cardmanager runs once from linuxrc, then exits. It is later made resident. |
| 01:35:29 | cbiffle | How much later? |
| 01:35:42 | cbiffle | And by what is it made resident? |
| 01:35:47 | TomW | 2..300 milliseconds later, I dunno. |
| 01:36:28 | cbiffle | Is it started by init then? |
| 01:37:20 | TomW | cbiffle: find root/ -type f | xargs fgrep cardmgr |
| 01:37:37 | TomW | cbiffle: it is in about 3 files. |
| 01:38:27 | TomW | jacques: you at work? I mean: work work? |
| 01:39:52 | cbiffle | Ahhhh. In /etc/init.d/S80pcmcia cardmgr is called with the -m /lib/modules option, and there is no such directory. Should there be in the default buildroot-tux? |
| 01:40:18 | cbiffle | Rewind. Nevermind. There is such a directory, but it's looking for 2.4.18-rmk2 and finding 2.4.16-rmk1. |
| 01:40:51 | TomW | cbiffle: that is what I could never figure out, why the kernel creates no lib/modules/2.4.18-rmk2-tux dir, even an empty one. |
| 01:40:55 | prpplague | hmm, looks like BZFlag still has a job for now.... |
| 01:41:12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you still hanging around? |
| 01:41:23 | sjm | prpplague: BZFlag is now cto of lineo... |
| 01:41:42 | prpplague | sjm: are you kidding? wow |
| 01:41:44 | TomW | cbiffle: maybe you have run 'make modules ; make modules_install'. :-) |
| 01:42:18 | TomW | sjm: hahahahahahahhaaa heeee <ROTFLMFAO> |
| 01:42:47 | prpplague | lol |
| 01:43:08 | TomW | whew, heh. nice future in that position, eh? |
| 01:43:18 | jacques | TomW: yes I am at work but it's a slow day so far |
| 01:43:29 | jacques | TomW: i just came back from getting a hamburger |
| 01:43:44 | jacques | reading backlog |
| 01:44:08 | cbiffle | TomW: this making would be done in the buildroot-tux tree? |
| 01:44:16 | TomW | jacques: I'll want to discuss with you later about laying out a /usr/X11R6/ dir tree, what libs, fonts, etc should be installed in it. |
| 01:44:28 | TomW | cbiffle: ?? |
| 01:45:08 | TomW | cbiffle: oh, not sure. That is how the lib/modules/xxxxx gets created under standard linux kernel builds. |
| 01:45:18 | cbiffle | Okay. |
| 01:45:37 | prpplague | TomW: have you looked at the trizeps core? |
| 01:45:38 | cbiffle | Yeah, in the root under buildroot-tux there isn't even a /lib/modules directory. |
| 01:45:43 | cbiffle | Not sure where I got mien. |
| 01:46:18 | TomW | cbiffle: I think I fed the pcmcia stuff a dummy dir once, it seemed to be pleased with it. mkdir /lib/modules & mkdir /lib/modules/2.4.18-rmk2-tux or something like that. |
| 01:46:29 | cbiffle | Mmm, okay. |
| 01:46:31 | cbiffle | I'll do that. |
| 01:47:21 | cbiffle | Ah, I see! the make modules_install target tries to install them in /lib/modules, not somewhere in the local tree. |
| 01:47:22 | TomW | andersee: I guess that jacques told you that tinyx builds fine under the latest uClibc snapshot? |
| 01:48:35 | jacques | TomW: we can discuss the X11R6 tree now if you like |
| 01:48:57 | TomW | cbiffle: ... and it promptly gets slapped down by the host system as not having sufficient user permission to mess with that /lib/modules dir... <sniff> I smell a patch file in the making?! |
| 01:49:32 | andersee | TomW: does? cool. I suspected as much. I fixed the final bug about a week ago... |
| 01:49:52 | andersee | TomW: Guess I need to try it out |
| 01:50:08 | TomW | andersee: latest cvs image builds from a makefile. |
| 01:50:14 | cbiffle | TomW: Yup. I can't figure out where the damn modules -are-, though. :-) |
| 01:51:33 | sjm | prpplague: http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/~timr/tuxscreen/20020417.html.gz - 19:54:06 |
| 01:51:37 | TomW | cbiffle: you probably don't need any modules, nothing in the kernel build (that I recall) is built as a module. So, all you have to do is to create a dummy /lib/modules/{kernel version} in the root filesystem to keep the pcmcia stuff happy. |
| 01:51:48 | jacques | andersee: good that you're here - we were just about to discuss something that could use your input |
| 01:52:08 | cbiffle | TomW: easy enough. If I was near the phone, I'd try it. :-) |
| 01:54:04 | cbiffle | I can dork with the filesystem it NFS-mounts, but I've been running it off the CF for the past couple of days. |
| 01:54:08 | jacques | TomW: andersee: we need to decide where to put the X libraries |
| 01:54:53 | cbiffle | Okay. So the fact that my cardmgr craps out early in the boot process may explain the fact that I can't insert cards after power-on and have them recognized? |
| 01:55:50 | prpplague | sjm: i see, guess BZ is moving up in the world |
| 01:56:31 | TomW | cbiffle: I just got my PCB back from the board house, put the parts on it this afternoon. I am hoping I can add an internal 10G IDE notebook drive to one of my Tux's. |
| 01:57:00 | TomW | prpplague: .. or down? |
| 01:57:21 | prpplague | TomW: lol |
| 01:57:46 | cbiffle | TomW: how? PCMCIA? |
| 01:57:50 | cbiffle | Or will this be on your dev motherboard device? |
| 01:59:10 | prpplague | TomW: ya getting moved to management is kinding like getting thrown in a vat of acid, its just a matter of time before you melt into a pile of slim, lol |
| 02:00:49 | cbiffle | So, what is it you plan to store on your 10G phone? Voicemail comes to mind. |
| 02:02:33 | as2 | 10G, yikes. |
| 02:02:54 | as2 | Is there such a thing as a PCMCIA to IDE interface? |
| 02:03:09 | cbiffle | waves his CompactFlash adapter :-) |
| 02:03:20 | cbiffle | IDE looks a lot like most address busses already. |
| 02:03:51 | as2 | Ahh cool. How much do they run at, large microdrives are kinda pricey. |
| 02:04:44 | jacques | as2: I use a pcmcia ide interface on my ipaq handheld |
| 02:04:58 | jacques | as2: I have a 20GB 2.5" notebook drive attached to it |
| 02:05:04 | as2 | Cool. |
| 02:05:29 | jacques | I suspect tho, that the tuxscreen might not push enough current for that... |
| 02:05:30 | vosque | wow |
| 02:05:32 | cbiffle | There are PCMCIA hard disks available too. |
| 02:05:41 | jacques | yeah but much more $$$ |
| 02:05:41 | vosque | I don't imagine that fits inside the cradle. |
| 02:05:49 | jacques | not even close :-) |
| 02:05:55 | jacques | I use my ipaq for development |
| 02:06:30 | as2 | Why am I reminded of the cream egg adverts. |
| 02:06:55 | as2 | "Ipaq, what do you do with yours?" |
| 02:07:03 | jacques | my ipaq has an uptime of about 160+ days now |
| 02:07:30 | as2 | Are they worth the money? |
| 02:07:32 | vosque | WOW |
| 02:07:35 | vosque | what are you doing with it? |
| 02:09:13 | cbiffle | deskPaq |
| 02:09:13 | cbiffle | Or we could cluster five more of them together and have a sixPaq. |
| 02:09:15 | cbiffle | Or make it a shoulder-strap wearable and call it a bakPaq. |
| 02:09:21 | cbiffle | DAMN. |
| 02:09:24 | cbiffle | That's longer than my server. |
| 02:09:50 | cbiffle | Letting it sit on the charger in suspend, I suspect. :-) |
| 02:10:02 | as2 | You could put it in a crusher, then youd have a flatpaq. |
| 02:10:34 | vosque | best I can do right now is 95 days. |
| 02:10:46 | pmisfit | bakPaq? |
| 02:10:47 | pmisfit | groans |
| 02:11:46 | cbiffle | You could cover it with artificial fur and build it a large mound of sticks containing all matter of stolen shiny objects: paqRat. |
| 02:11:57 | as2 | If you overcloked it with a peltier, youd have an icepaq. |
| 02:12:03 | pmisfit | you could paint it brown and call it a fudge.... oh nevermind |
| 02:12:34 | cbiffle | If you combined it with someone named Stan and spoke in Spanish, you'd have iPaqystan. |
| 02:12:37 | vosque | If caprisun sold it, it would be a juicepaq. |
| 02:12:55 | cbiffle | When they're on sale, they're valuePaqs. |
| 02:13:03 | cbiffle | When loaded with wholesome games, they're familyPaqs. |
| 02:13:29 | vosque | Carpenters could use them to put up walls: sPAQle. |
| 02:13:34 | cbiffle | No. |
| 02:13:40 | cbiffle | I veto that pun. |
| 02:14:11 | cbiffle | We should rename the TuxScreen the phonePaq so we can have puns too. familyTuxscreen just isn't as good. |
| 02:14:20 | as2 | Haha. |
| 02:14:20 | vosque | At least I didn't make the olPAQa joke I was going to initially. |
| 02:14:33 | cbiffle | *processes* |
| 02:14:41 | vosque | it's an animal. |
| 02:14:48 | cbiffle | I know. I'm working out the pun backstory for it. |
| 02:15:42 | cbiffle | If you're from Boston and install one as a navigation system, it will help you Paq your caar. |
| 02:15:48 | jacques | i have built LFS on my ipaq seveal times (linuxfromscratch.org) |
| 02:15:57 | cbiffle | I was considering that for the TuxScreen, actually. |
| 02:16:07 | pmisfit | if you had a half-dozen of 'em... |
| 02:16:08 | cbiffle | I don't like busybox's way of handling, say, ps. |
| 02:16:11 | vosque | with enough storage space, it'd be the way I would have went, too. |
| 02:16:21 | jacques | tux neeeds more ram for that |
| 02:16:24 | cbiffle | Yaaaaay CompactFlash! |
| 02:16:25 | andersee | cbiffle: Yo dissing my software? ;-) |
| 02:16:32 | jacques | not just storage, ram |
| 02:16:37 | as2 | On a plane, jetpaq. |
| 02:16:38 | cbiffle | andersee: Perhaps you can help me! How do I get per-process RAM utilization on ps? |
| 02:16:55 | cbiffle | With strapped-on C4-2's, rocketpaq. |
| 02:17:07 | vosque | model rocketry joke. |
| 02:17:12 | vosque | That's.....bad. |
| 02:17:25 | andersee | cbiffle: Fix bug #1026 -- http://bugs.busybox.net/db/10/1026.html |
| 02:17:27 | vosque | though, not as bad as sPAQle. |
| 02:17:34 | cbiffle | *shrug* I figured the hey-wouldn't-it-be-cool-to-put-linux-on-my-phone and model rocketry probably had significant overlap. |
| 02:17:37 | as2 | How big is a C4-2 motor? |
| 02:18:00 | cbiffle | holds fingers out |
| 02:18:22 | as2 | Mmm, thanks for that ;] |
| 02:18:32 | cbiffle | andersee: That's my main beef with it so far. All in all, busybox is damn cool; I wish I'd thought of it. |
| 02:18:37 | cbiffle | as2: ~2cm across. |
| 02:18:53 | jacques | I WANT BUSYBOX TOP |
| 02:18:55 | jacques | :-D |
| 02:18:59 | as2 | I want to make some small rocket engines. |
| 02:19:03 | cbiffle | seconds that and glares at andersee expectantly. |
| 02:19:07 | vosque | they make 1/4A's now. |
| 02:19:14 | cbiffle | clarifies that he was seconding the top, not the rocket engine comment. |
| 02:19:21 | vosque | I like both! |
| 02:19:27 | jacques | i tried porting top but ran into all sorts of problems since it needs curses and stuff |
| 02:19:36 | cbiffle | does not doubt, however, that andersee could probably make nice rocket engines that also had integrated parachutes and fins and were statically linked with an ignitor. |
| 02:19:55 | jacques | we need a good curses-like package for tux |
| 02:20:00 | cbiffle | top doesn't need curses. At least not in BSD. |
| 02:20:01 | pmisfit | jacques: slang is there, ncurses is almost there. |
| 02:20:03 | jacques | so we can have fullscreen text apps |
| 02:20:12 | jacques | pmisfit: hmm |
| 02:20:18 | as2 | Nick complete? |
| 02:20:29 | KeyserSoze | no, you really want to dynamically link your ignitor. |
| 02:20:36 | cbiffle | It has a mode where it just blows out listings separated by a newline (or just one) until you tell it to stop. |
| 02:20:39 | KeyserSoze | reduces binary size. |
| 02:20:52 | vosque | we could send out a `clear` instead of a newline. |
| 02:21:19 | pmisfit | wonders if he finished getting ncurses to build or not... |
| 02:21:20 | as2 | I'm not worrying about getting it down, getting it up is all I care about. |
| 02:21:20 | cbiffle | No curses involved. Works piped to a text file. |
| 02:21:20 | cbiffle | I should look into porting that code over to Linux if it's not there already; top is delightfully modular. |
| 02:21:39 | cbiffle | KeyserSoze: Particularly since I may wish to use it with uCignitor at some point. |
| 02:21:59 | cbiffle | as2: viagra O.O |
| 02:22:02 | andersee | looks at cbiffle for patches |
| 02:22:04 | vosque | uC3FNC |
| 02:22:09 | as2 | Err, quite. |
| 02:22:16 | cbiffle | shows andersee his jeans |
| 02:22:24 | vosque | runs away in fear. |
| 02:22:25 | pmisfit | keep it clean, here, gentlemen |
| 02:22:45 | cbiffle | You want a top patch or a ps patch? |
| 02:23:05 | cbiffle | Keep in mind that I'm a FreeBSD kernel hacker, not a Linux kernel hacker. |
| 02:23:33 | as2 | How fast is the tux bus btw? read and write to ram? |
| 02:23:47 | cbiffle | Most 1100's are 100mhz, methinks, but ymmv in this case. |
| 02:24:11 | andersee | cbiffle: really is a pretty quick hack -- I've just been busy |
| 02:24:14 | | well, ymmv is my Mileage May Vary |
| 02:24:14 | as2 | ymmv? |
| 02:24:23 | as2 | Ahh. |
| 02:24:25 | cbiffle | andersee: ps or top? There were a couple threads going, my brain got twisted. :-) |
| 02:24:32 | andersee | is reworking the entire uClibc config system so it won't suck |
| 02:25:02 | andersee | cbiffle: either one, but especially easy are the ps % cpu and % mem changes |
| 02:25:24 | cbiffle | Where are they available in Linux? Do I have to go after kernel syms or are they somewhere in /proc? |
| 02:25:26 | as2 | My digital scope only goes to 50MHz. |
| 02:25:42 | cbiffle | *shrug* My taurus only goes to 65. Your point? |
| 02:26:01 | pmisfit | IIRC, everything in top and ps comes from /proc |
| 02:26:06 | as2 | I'm wondering if I can interface it directly. |
| 02:26:14 | pmisfit | ... on linux, that is. |
| 02:26:27 | cbiffle | pmisfit: Yeah, not in BSD. It's very straightforward in BSD, though, fortunately. |
| 02:26:43 | TomW | cbiffle: my Grand Am shuts the fuel injection off at 105.. |
| 02:27:15 | TomW | cbiffle: that's what I get for buying a used sports car. :-( |
| 02:27:17 | KeyserSoze | got up to 165 in his vette, but his girlfriend made him slow down :( |
| 02:27:23 | andersee | cbiffle: grab the source to psmisc and read how it goes grubbing through the /proc filesystem |
| 02:27:31 | jacques | cbiffle: FYI, top on linux is part of the procps package |
| 02:27:33 | vosque | truck gets unhappy after 95. |
| 02:27:34 | cbiffle | TomW: actually, the taurus hit 100 the other day. Big hill. |
| 02:27:37 | TomW | KeyserSoze: get a new girlfriend! |
| 02:27:59 | cbiffle | andersee: psmisc? Is that a portion of busybox or Linux? |
| 02:28:01 | jacques | well that came out of nowhere :- |
| 02:28:04 | jacques | :-) |
| 02:28:17 | jacques | procps |
| 02:28:18 | cbiffle | Once I get the source, I'm good. I just need to know where to look for said source. |
| 02:28:38 | andersee | cbiffle: err. sorry. procps package. http://procps.sourceforge.net/ |
| 02:28:58 | jacques | http://freshmeat.net/redir/procps/8384/url_tgz/procps-2.0.7.tar.gz |
| 02:28:58 | KeyserSoze | as soon as I get my little mapping application done, the tux is going in my car. |
| 02:29:09 | jacques | oh tht's probably better - damn sourcescourge |
| 02:29:13 | pmisfit | andersee: speaking of patches, i am still chewing (slowly) on the /dev/initctl for init |
| 02:29:37 | jacques | oops, I meant damn freshmeat :-D |
| 02:29:52 | jacques | because it gave me an old link |
| 02:30:00 | pmisfit | andersee: just so you know i haven't flaked on it. |
| 02:30:10 | jacques | KeyserSoze: have you looked at gpsdrive ? |
| 02:30:21 | andersee | pmisfit: excellent |
| 02:30:37 | cbiffle | pmisfit: whazzat do? |
| 02:30:58 | andersee | almost has the uClibc C lib compiling with the new config system -- no more icky recursive make |
| 02:31:19 | jacques | http://gpsdrive.kraftvoll.at/ |
| 02:31:27 | cbiffle | This'll be an entertaining test of how well my linux devtools work. :-) |
| 02:31:36 | jacques | it's open source gps moving map |
| 02:32:15 | pmisfit | cbiffle: lets telinit/shutdown/halt/reboot to send commands to init through a fifo |
| 02:32:17 | | rumour has it Qt is TrollTech's QT library, available at http://www.trolltech.com |
| 02:32:17 | cbiffle | Qt? |
| 02:32:28 | cbiffle | pmisfit: Ooh! Neat! |
| 02:32:30 | | well, Qt is TrollTech's QT library, available at http://www.trolltech.com |
| 02:32:30 | cbiffle | Qt? |
| 02:32:33 | | i guess Qt is TrollTech's QT library, available at http://www.trolltech.com |
| 02:32:33 | cbiffle | Qt? |
| 02:32:38 | pmisfit | cbiffle: it's a SYSV thing |
| 02:32:40 | cbiffle | stickywidget? |
| 02:32:49 | cbiffle | Aw, shucks. I was hoping somebody could tell me what that was. |
| 02:33:20 | KeyserSoze | doh! that is so much cooler than my map will ever be! |
| 02:33:20 | KeyserSoze | will it run on a tux? |
| 02:33:33 | cbiffle | jacques: What's it based on? |
| 02:33:38 | cbiffle | (toolkit-wise) |
| 02:33:43 | jacques | KeyserSoze: I doubt anyone has tried yet - based on gtk |
| 02:33:50 | cbiffle | Eesh. |
| 02:33:54 | jacques | but I have alrady built gtk for tux against uclibc :-) |
| 02:34:04 | vosque | oh |
| 02:34:04 | vosque | wow |
| 02:34:17 | jacques | wont fit in onboard flash tho |
| 02:34:17 | vosque | DirectFB or X? |
| 02:34:20 | jacques | x |
| 02:34:35 | vosque | watches cbiffle attack his monitor with a box of tea. |
| 02:34:41 | jacques | i build directfb but it was not documented well enough for me to test it quickly |
| 02:34:46 | cbiffle | There was a fly on it! Dammit. |
| 02:35:06 | jacques | th othey just relaesed a new directfb a couple days ago - 0.9.10 |
| 02:35:12 | jacques | supposed to be beter docs |
| 02:35:21 | vosque | you mean it has docs? :) |
| 02:35:27 | jacques | heh, dont ever as a Q in #directfb |
| 02:35:29 | cbiffle | GTK does not have an equivalent to Qt/E? |
| 02:35:37 | jacques | i watched for 3 days and nobody but me said aword |
| 02:35:49 | vosque | that's scary. |
| 02:35:49 | KeyserSoze | 's map program will use non-NMEA message, to interface to his 80188 single board computer, which integrates GPS, magnetic heading, and speedometer data with a 4 state Kalman Filter. |
| 02:35:49 | KeyserSoze | so beat that fancy-pants GPSdrive! |
| 02:35:55 | cbiffle | #tuxscreen was the same way for the first couple of weeks I lurked. |
| 02:36:21 | jacques | arg this is too interesting conversation - I am supposed to be working on rxvt build |
| 02:36:38 | jacques | KeyserSoze: how much? :-D |
| 02:36:47 | pmisfit | cbiffle: this is the first night in several weeks i've seen multiple concurrent conversations going on #tuxscreen |
| 02:36:57 | vosque | yeah |
| 02:37:01 | vosque | just busy all of a sudden. |
| 02:37:08 | as2 | Oh, sorry, we'll stop. |
| 02:37:18 | KeyserSoze | yeah, what happens to GPSdrive when all the GPS satellites fall from the sky? it stops working. but my little 80188 will happily dead-reckon onward. |
| 02:37:20 | pmisfit | it's fun! but i gotta run, dinnertime.. |
| 02:38:07 | pmisfit | is away: doing the Mr. Mom thing and cooking homemade pizza for wife and daughter |
| 02:38:14 | vosque | the dead reckoning thing is cool. |
| 02:38:20 | vosque | I'll be interested in seeing how that turns out |
| 02:38:24 | as2 | Ive been told UK gov are involved in a second GPS like system. |
| 02:38:48 | cbiffle | Yeah, they're talking about using it for universal road tolling and speed limit enforcement. |
| 02:38:49 | vosque | GPS is important enough that it'll probably be maintained. |
| 02:39:57 | as2 | That particular idea is evil, and largly unworkable. |
| 02:40:31 | vosque | probably so. |
| 02:40:36 | as2 | Makes me wonder how accurate they could make it though. |
| 02:40:50 | vosque | current GPS is supposed to be good to ~3 feet. |
| 02:40:55 | vosque | if you have a full lock |
| 02:41:04 | KeyserSoze | well, umm, my system can give heading information when the vehicle is stopped. GPS can't do that by itself, because it uses differences of position values to get speed and heading. |
| 02:41:25 | cbiffle | Technically impossible. Politically delightful, apparent. |
| 02:41:25 | cbiffle | ly. |
| 02:41:27 | cbiffle | *nod* And differential is even more accurate. They might install local differential transmitters. |
| 02:41:46 | vosque | that would be odd. |
| 02:41:47 | cbiffle | Some GPS units include a solid-state compass and use the latitude figures to do magnetic-polar correction to give you an accurate heading. |
| 02:42:14 | KeyserSoze | you can use differential GPS over the internet, too. |
| 02:42:30 | cbiffle | Oooh, that's a thought. |
| 02:42:40 | KeyserSoze | (dGPS corrections transmitted over the internet, and given to the GPS receiver, that is) |
| 02:42:57 | vosque | wow |
| 02:43:06 | cbiffle | I prefer to simply have a team of surveyors with me at all times. |
| 02:43:07 | vosque | more reason to get the place coated in 802.11b |
| 02:43:14 | as2 | That method isnt that useful anymore since they turned the scrambler off. |
| 02:43:29 | cbiffle | But it would make up for local drift or inaccuracies due to elevation miscalculation. |
| 02:43:34 | cbiffle | Basically, let you use fewer satellites. |
| 02:43:36 | as2 | Pissed the military off no end though. |
| 02:43:57 | vosque | elevation miscalculation is becoming a large problem in some parts of our area. |
| 02:44:01 | cbiffle | Yup. It's basically, "Oh, you're scrambling it? *click* Fixed." |
| 02:45:06 | as2 | I wonder what the life expectancy of the sats is. |
| 02:45:16 | cbiffle | *checks watch* 8pm. |
| 02:45:31 | KeyserSoze | what I really want is to sneak home one of our $30,000 6 degree of freedom inertial units from work. |
| 02:45:39 | cbiffle | Hee hee. :-) |
| 02:45:41 | jacques | cbiffle: where are you located? |
| 02:46:18 | KeyserSoze | they've got it set up in a suburban, and they can drive around for a hour with no GPS, and only accumulate a few feet of error. |
| 02:46:33 | cbiffle | Arizona. Vosque reports odd issues with shifting watertables skewing GPS. I do not understand. :-) |
| 02:46:48 | as2 | I wonder if you can recycle cesium. |
| 02:46:51 | vosque | I barely understood it myself when I read the whitepaper. |
| 02:47:03 | KeyserSoze | gyros and accelerometers that accurate are expensive. |
| 02:47:21 | as2 | Gyros are hideosly expensive. |
| 02:47:34 | jacques | cbiffle: ah I forgot ar was in same tz as ca |
| 02:47:44 | as2 | There are some 'solid state' one that are cheeper. |
| 02:47:46 | Russ | jacques: only sometimes |
| 02:48:06 | cbiffle | jacques: Yes, we don't do Daylight Savings, so sometimes California jumps an hour off. |
| 02:48:19 | Russ | cbiffle: jumps an hour on actually |
| 02:48:39 | cbiffle | *shakes head* Off. Time doesn't change. :-) |
| 02:49:55 | KeyserSoze | yeah, the solid state ones aren't much good for navigation. |
| 02:49:55 | KeyserSoze | they are okay for short term, but drift too much over time. |
| 02:49:59 | KeyserSoze | after only a few minutes they are off by several degrees. |
| 02:50:02 | Russ | we are an hour ahead of california |
| 02:50:08 | vosque | okay |
| 02:50:10 | Russ | but they set their clock ahead in the summer |
| 02:50:10 | vosque | time for dinner for me. |
| 02:50:15 | vosque | yay weird thai resturaunt. |
| 02:50:15 | KeyserSoze | which is why i have a magnetic compass instead. |
| 02:50:21 | cbiffle | Right. |
| 02:50:27 | cbiffle | Weird thai restaurant? |
| 02:50:50 | vosque | yah |
| 02:50:50 | vosque | chars |
| 02:50:57 | cbiffle | Grohvy. |
| 02:51:06 | TomW | jacques: bbl, going for ginger ale. |
| 02:51:07 | Russ | never heard of chars |
| 02:51:09 | Russ | where is that |
| 02:51:16 | jacques | TomW: OK |
| 02:51:22 | cbiffle | In Tempe, round about University and Rural, AZ, USA, Earth. |
| 02:51:25 | Russ | I'm headed to YC's mongollian bbq |
| 02:51:34 | Russ | how could I have not seen that |
| 02:51:44 | cbiffle | On Southern? |
| 02:51:48 | Russ | is it by the indian resturant? |
| 02:51:49 | Russ | cbiffle: ya |
| 02:51:58 | Russ | I'm over by gammage right now |
| 02:52:00 | as2 | Yeah the solid state ones are pretty crappy. |
| 02:52:07 | cbiffle | Russ: Just west of the Indian restaurant, literally right on University. |
| 02:52:15 | Russ | any good? |
| 02:52:19 | cbiffle | Russ: You can probably see me from the street, then. I'm at a little web-development shop on Mill and tenth. |
| 02:52:21 | cbiffle | Russ: Yes. |
| 02:52:30 | Russ | the one with the steel sign thingy |
| 02:52:44 | cbiffle | as vosque:YC's about a block from my house. |
| 02:52:55 | cbiffle | Russ: Yeah, with the ugly diamond-plate sign. :-) |
| 02:53:16 | Russ | ya, I'm in best a hall |
| 02:53:27 | cbiffle | I was in Irish B last year. Do you rollerblade? |
| 02:53:34 | Russ | everywhere |
| 02:53:49 | cbiffle | Were you in McClintock? |
| 02:53:58 | Russ | in 98-99 |
| 02:54:08 | cbiffle | My name is Cliff, you know me. |
| 02:54:24 | Russ | ah, I just didn't know your last name was biffle |
| 02:54:29 | cbiffle | Yup. :-) |
| 02:55:26 | cbiffle | You have a TuxScreen as well, then? |
| 02:56:13 | Russ | two of them |
| 02:56:16 | Russ | I do the kernels |
| 02:56:29 | Russ | and the slighly buggy flash code in blob is my fault |
| 02:56:54 | jacques | :-D |
| 02:56:59 | cbiffle | Good, I can track you down. :-) Kernels, eh? So maybe you're the one to pester about 2.4.18-rmk2-tux not creating a /lib/modules directory. :-) |
| 02:57:58 | Russ | the kernel doesn't create the directory |
| 02:58:00 | cbiffle | (The install for it, that is.) |
| 02:58:02 | cbiffle | Right. |
| 02:58:26 | cbiffle | Vosque and I have decided that we need to have you over for drinks. |
| 02:58:31 | cbiffle | (Or equivalent.) |
| 02:58:39 | Russ | heh, where is vosque? |
| 02:58:47 | cbiffle | Southern and McClintock. Not in school. |
| 02:58:55 | Russ | I don't do any of the buildroot stuff |
| 02:59:14 | cbiffle | Ah, okay. :-) |
| 02:59:36 | cbiffle | Doesn't mean we can't have you over for drinks. :-) |
| 02:59:52 | andersee | cbiffle: Russ however did make the kernel work.... That must cound for something. ;-) |
| 03:00:06 | cbiffle | *shrug* Suuuure. :-) |
| 03:00:09 | Russ | just saying that I don't know about the /lib/modules thing |
| 03:00:23 | cbiffle | Right. :-) I don't even know if it'll make a difference. |
| 03:00:31 | cbiffle | I'm going to try it in about 10-15 minutes when I go home. |
| 03:05:41 | cbiffle | Mmm, out of memory issues. :-) |
| 03:06:40 | Russ | so in meminfo, does active and inactive get really big? |
| 03:06:56 | cbiffle | Inactive does, active does not. Well, not -really- bit; inactive tops out at about 3-4M. |
| 03:07:12 | Russ | normal |
| 03:07:17 | cbiffle | *nod* |
| 03:07:23 | Russ | under the totals, what does used: say? |
| 03:07:46 | cbiffle | Not at the machine, unfortunately. It usually hangs between 7 and 12M. |
| 03:07:50 | jacques | aah, my daily 3kB/s download of the uClibc snap :-\ |
| 03:07:57 | jacques | we GOTTA get buildroot to use a mirror |
| 03:08:02 | cbiffle | When I start QPE, I try to have about 9MB available, and it still dies frequently. |
| 03:08:21 | cbiffle | (by 'hangs between 7....' I mean it stays between those values, not the system hangs.) |
| 03:08:30 | jacques | downloading uclibc takes longre than compiling X (almost) |
| 03:08:33 | Russ | gotta leave for YC's |
| 03:08:40 | Russ | be back later though |
| 03:08:40 | cbiffle | Okay. Have a good feeding. :-) |
| 03:11:28 | jacques | oooh, it's up to 3.45kB/s |
| 03:12:43 | andersee | jacques: try using de.busybox.net/downloads/uClibc instead.... |
| 03:14:23 | jacques | andersee: should we change buildroot to use that? |
| 03:14:39 | jacques | i remembre i got great speed from there for the toolchain source |
| 03:14:45 | jacques | andersee: I remember what I wanted to ask you |
| 03:15:02 | jacques | what's this stlport thing? does it obsolete the c++ toolchain? I dont et it |
| 03:19:42 | andersee | Not obsoletes, but is an alternative.... |
| 03:21:21 | jacques | can you compare and contrast? |
| 03:23:44 | andersee | jacques: stlport is a bit bigger, but doesn't require a gcc build... |
| 03:26:22 | jacques | bigger? :-\ |
| 03:27:20 | as2 | Nite all. |
| 03:29:01 | cbiffle | Doobee doobee doo. |
| 03:29:38 | cbiffle | ENQ? |
| 03:29:41 | jacques | watches x build. |
| 03:29:52 | cbiffle | Oooh. Like fireworks, only slower. |
| 03:31:19 | jacques | heh |
| 03:32:01 | pmisfit | is back (gone 00:53:54) |
| 03:32:05 | pmisfit | cbiffle: ACK |
| 03:39:04 | TomW_gone | is away: I'm busy |
| 03:40:04 | jacques | TomW: wb |
| 03:40:13 | TomW | tnx |
| 03:41:37 | jacques | TomW: I just pasted the patch for the rxvt config to you on private |
| 03:42:11 | TomW | just two lines, eh? |
| 03:42:17 | jacques | yep |
| 03:42:31 | jacques | because the configure script does not detect the pty type with uclibc |
| 03:42:39 | jacques | so it does not set any of the types |
| 03:43:18 | jacques | when I build rxvt manually, I set the CC and RANLIB vars then run configure |
| 03:43:29 | jacques | you can give configure the locations of the X includes and libs |
| 03:43:39 | TomW | Interesting, I will stare at the config stuff for a bit, then attempt a build. How do you launch it? Xfbdev -ac rxvt & |
| 03:44:15 | jacques | launch Xfbdev -ac & first |
| 03:44:31 | jacques | then rxvt -display :0 & |
| 03:44:35 | cbiffle | I've worked out how to add mem-usage functionality to blackbox, I think. |
| 03:44:40 | jacques | unless you have DISPLAY alrady set |
| 03:45:23 | jacques | also there is a thing with X |
| 03:45:36 | jacques | when the first app launched after the sever dies, the server dies |
| 03:45:39 | cbiffle | So that ps can give us per-process utilization. It's very easy. One of the space-delimited numbers in /proc/<pid>/stat contains it. |
| 03:45:46 | jacques | so dont be surprised if that happens |
| 03:46:01 | jacques | cbiffle: aah you meant busybox, not blackbox :-) |
| 03:46:10 | cbiffle | jacques: Hm. Yes, yes I do. |
| 03:46:13 | jacques | i was configsed for a set |
| 03:46:14 | jacques | sec |
| 03:46:23 | cbiffle | jacques: I spend most of my time hacking on windowing stuff, so I get confused. |
| 03:46:45 | cbiffle | is back |
| 03:46:50 | cbiffle | Interesting. |
| 03:47:01 | cbiffle | is still catching on to IRC commands. |
| 03:47:19 | TomW | chews on more candy |
| 03:47:55 | cbiffle | chews on more burger |
| 03:47:59 | pmisfit | cbiffle: cool. glad i'm not the only irc newbie around. |
| 03:48:32 | pmisfit | goes back to chewing on init.c |
| 03:48:45 | TomW | pmisfit: me too, this is my first IRC experience. Imagine that, me, a virgin at 48? |
| 03:48:46 | cbiffle | pmisfit: Yeah, for some reason I've never gotten involved in it. |
| 03:48:54 | cbiffle | TomW: Computers will do that. |
| 03:49:23 | jacques | i dont know the commands - I just use xchat badly |
| 03:49:40 | TomW | yes, you do. :-D |
| 03:49:48 | cbiffle | *grin* Fortunately I know /me from gaim. |
| 03:49:54 | jacques | tho when I was in college I was addicted to the original IRC - bitnet relay |
| 03:50:11 | cbiffle | allows jacques to date self |
| 03:50:26 | jacques | after i got over that I was burnt out on chat for a long time |
| 03:50:30 | cbiffle | was in college somewhat after bitnet. :-) |
| 03:50:37 | jacques | heh |
| 03:52:11 | jacques | TomW: I am going to edit the config files on intimate - make them easier to replace staging_dir |
| 03:53:59 | | You want http://intimate.handhelds.org |
| 03:53:59 | cbiffle | What is intimate? |
| 03:54:03 | TomW | jacques: ok, I was going to give configure a shot and see how badly it messes things up. Actually, I had been reading the links.mk makefile, that is another app that uses configure. Looks like they have the configure behaving? |
| 03:54:07 | | de rien cbiffle |
| 03:54:07 | cbiffle | Thank you, ibot. |
| 03:54:12 | jacques | TomW: just replace REPLACE_STAGING_DIR with the staging dir patch |
| 03:54:20 | jacques | patch |
| 03:54:23 | jacques | path |
| 03:54:49 | jacques | TomW: yeah I know at least one app that uses configure is already working in buildroot |
| 03:54:56 | jacques | i think more like 3 |
| 03:55:35 | cbiffle | So what is it y'all are running intimate -on-, with its 140MB base image? |
| 03:55:42 | TomW | It would be interesting to study them, then I can understand how to get new apps working under the buildroot. |
| 03:56:00 | TomW | ... Like Mozilla for example? |
| 03:56:03 | TomW | ducks! |
| 03:56:19 | cbiffle | I need to see how big Konq/E ARM is. |
| 03:56:58 | TomW | I need to get that 10G drive working. |
| 03:57:24 | cbiffle | How are you interfacing it? |
| 03:57:51 | TomW | my own little board design: CPLD + two latches. |
| 03:57:54 | pmisfit | wants to get X running so he doesn't HAVE to build a web browser for arm-uclibc at all |
| 03:57:56 | cbiffle | Hm...it'd be nice if blob grokked disks. |
| 03:58:04 | jacques | well maybe on your 128MB tux you could actually run mozilla :-) |
| 03:58:17 | cbiffle | does not want to deal with X-sized web browsers; Konq/E looks quite pleasant. |
| 03:58:23 | TomW | heh, no, it is only 64Meg. |
| 03:58:24 | cbiffle | likes web scaling. |
| 03:58:48 | cbiffle | Oh! That reminds me! What modifications do I have to make to the mainboard to deal with, say, a 32MB DIMM? |
| 03:59:01 | TomW | None. |
| 03:59:06 | cbiffle | ...really? |
| 03:59:22 | cbiffle | The SODIMM wiki said something about needing a hardware mod to see the whole thing. |
| 03:59:30 | cbiffle | (but didn't specify the mod) |
| 03:59:48 | TomW | You have to buzz out some pins on the DIMM edge connector to see if certain ones are tied to GND. There is info about this on the Wiki. |
| 04:00:15 | jacques | TomW: OK - I have edited the config files (cross.def, etc) on intimate.handhelds.org - now search and replace on REPLACE_STAGING_DIR |
| 04:00:18 | cbiffle | *nod* Saw that, yes. It said that having covered 71 (one of the detect pins) you'd get to 16MB of the 32. It then said you'd need a mainboard mod to see 32. |
| 04:01:18 | cbiffle | You are successfully using a 32MB DIMM in your Tux? |
| 04:01:30 | TomW | cbiffle: then you have to change the blob so that it will emit 12 row addresses to the DRAM, that is a one byte change. If you have the JTAG dongle, use that. The JTAG is cheap enough from BZFlag, best to have one around. |
| 04:02:01 | cbiffle | TomW: Do I still need a 4k refresh DIMM? |
| 04:02:17 | cbiffle | TomW: the source I'm looking at doesn't know if they're 4 or 8 K. (The cheap SODIMM link at the bottom of the aforementioned wiki) |
| 04:02:21 | TomW | cbiffle: Yes, I found some 4K refresh, 32Meg SODIMMs (I ordered 6 of them) and I modified the mainboard to 32Meg as well by replacing those DRAM chips. |
| 04:03:21 | TomW | cbiffle: You must ask, if they don't know, then pass them by. Anyone who sells DRAM knows what they are selling and can tell you if the SODIMMs are 4K/8K refresh. You cannot use the 8K refresh in a Tux. |
| 04:03:33 | cbiffle | TomW: is your source likely to still have DIMMs? |
| 04:04:05 | TomW | Yes, they have them on a regular basis. They are new stock, custom manufactured for them. |
| 04:04:16 | cbiffle | Link? :-) |
| 04:05:36 | TomW | cbiffle: http://TuxScreen.net/wiki/view/Main/SODIMM near the bottom of the page is my section about SODIMMs. |
| 04:05:48 | cbiffle | Between vosque and myself we're going to need about 4. :-) |
| 04:06:33 | cbiffle | Does anyone know if the $6.99 DIMMs at the bottom of the page are 4k refresh? $1/meg seems rather high these days... |
| 04:09:37 | cbiffle | Nevermind, they're not. :-) |
| 04:10:51 | jacques | those are the ones gpsfan got |
| 04:10:57 | jacques | not 4k |
| 04:11:04 | jacques | the $7 ones |
| 04:11:07 | cbiffle | *nod* |
| 04:11:10 | cbiffle | They don't work? |
| 04:11:47 | jacques | were doing strange things last I saw, but TomW and gpsfan know the most |
| 04:12:05 | cbiffle | Looks like the modules TomW lists on the Wiki have dropped from $29 to $19 if I read their webpage right. |
| 04:12:31 | cbiffle | TomW: the part number you give on the Wiki, LGED32U/032/G3V60, does that specify 4k or do I need to talk to a human and specify it? |
| 04:16:55 | jacques | TomW: LOL I just realized that we could use twm since it's already built, but ppl would hate us forever |
| 04:17:16 | TomW | Rxvt version: 2.6.4 : 02 NOVEMBER 2001 |
| 04:17:16 | TomW | Source code location: . |
| 04:17:16 | TomW | Install path: /usr/bin |
| 04:17:16 | TomW | Compiler: /home/tom/TuxScreen/buildroot-tux/build/stage/usr/bin/arm-uclibc-gcc |
| 04:17:47 | TomW | jacques: now to check the config.h file... |
| 04:17:50 | jacques | TomW: looks good, but did you give it X includes a libs paths? |
| 04:18:02 | TomW | naw, not yet. |
| 04:18:09 | jacques | otherwise it will fail on link as it tries to link in x86 xlib |
| 04:18:14 | jacques | nod |
| 04:18:20 | jacques | it's a simple arg to configure anyway |
| 04:18:31 | TomW | I'm still poking at it to see what it will do.. |
| 04:18:48 | cbiffle | squirms away from the poking |
| 04:19:10 | cbiffle | Hm. |
| 04:19:56 | cbiffle | So yes, to find the memory utilization of a process, one pulls the 21st field after the executable name out of /proc/#/stat. I'll go home and see about patching busybox accordingly. |
| 04:20:48 | jacques | ok i got it to build X with the buildroot compiler :-) |
| 04:22:10 | TomW | Umm, I have a question... How do you "right click" using a stylus? |
| 04:22:36 | jacques | TomW: --x-includes=buildroot-tux/build/xc-011010/exports/include --x-libraries=buildroot-tux/build/xc-011010/exports/lib |
| 04:22:45 | jacques | add that to the configure line for rxvt |
| 04:22:54 | jacques | but fix the buildroot-tux part... |
| 04:23:09 | jacques | TomW: on the ipaq they have modifier buttons |
| 04:23:26 | jacques | TomW: we can do same thing on tux - use a key to hold down while touching the screen |
| 04:24:06 | TomW | ctrl-tap, alt-tap, alt-tap-tap, etc. |
| 04:24:11 | TomW | interesting idea. |
| 04:25:57 | TomW | *IF* The ctrl / alt keys are transmitted by the IR kbd, which I don't think that they are. We could use a function key to cyle a modifier state shown on the taskbar / desktop icon. |
| 04:26:06 | scanline | is back (gone 03:49:38) |
| 04:26:20 | TomW | scanline: goofing off again? |
| 04:26:27 | TomW | scanline: get back to work! |
| 04:26:30 | scanline | bah |
| 04:26:34 | TomW | :-) |
| 04:26:38 | jacques | TomW: what makes you think they arent xmitted? |
| 04:26:55 | jacques | oh i think i see what you mean |
| 04:27:03 | TomW | I wouldn't, it would drain power unnecessarily. |
| 04:27:07 | jacques | no - I know they are |
| 04:27:20 | jacques | because when the screen blanks I can unblank it by hitting alt |
| 04:27:24 | TomW | .. what? you can see the led glowing? |
| 04:27:33 | TomW | AH! TRUE! |
| 04:27:41 | jacques | well I have my radio shack IR detector card too |
| 04:27:48 | jacques | but I didnt use that |
| 04:27:51 | TomW | give that man another brain cell. |
| 04:27:58 | jacques | lol |
| 04:39:39 | cbiffle | Ah, okay, now I'm at the machine. |
| 04:41:09 | cbiffle | needs to stop calling it 'blackbox'. |
| 04:41:38 | TomW | jacques: well, it did compile.. |
| 04:41:55 | TomW | jacques: still more to do yet. |
| 04:42:11 | TomW | jacques: I just had to give it a shot. it went cleanly. |
| 04:42:16 | jacques | cool |
| 04:43:42 | jacques | mine just built too |
| 04:44:06 | jacques | tho manually configured against buildroot |
| 04:44:16 | jacques | and manually patched config.h |
| 04:45:39 | pmisfit | 'night. good luck with the TinyX and QT/E, gents. |
| 04:45:46 | jacques | TomW: what's the more to do you refer to? |
| 04:45:58 | jacques | later pmisfit |
| 04:46:40 | pmisfit | is away: passing out |
| 04:47:31 | jacques | TomW: did you see my tinyx.mk "patch" on private channel? |
| 04:49:22 | TomW | you changed your stuff up at hh.org? |
| 04:50:17 | TomW | silly me, yes you did. Ok. |
| 04:50:33 | jacques | yep |
| 04:50:40 | jacques | i tested it too |
| 04:52:01 | TomW | trying to look professional, eh? |
| 04:52:05 | jacques | heh |
| 04:52:06 | TomW | heh |
| 04:52:41 | jacques | there are a lot of ppl waiting for tinyx in buildroot - there will be lots of eyes on this soon :-) |
| 04:52:54 | TomW | didn't your mother ever tell you to write clean code and wear clean underwear, as you never could tell who would see either? ;-) |
| 04:53:07 | jacques | LOL |
| 04:53:29 | jacques | my mother told me i spent too much time on the computer |
| 04:53:51 | TomW | I thought about that the first time I went to a hospital emergency room, I came from work and was wearing greasy clothes. |
| 04:54:46 | TomW | they didn't invent computers yet when *I* was a child. :-D |
| 04:55:07 | andersee | TomW: was born before babbage! |
| 04:55:07 | jacques | well i was in high school |
| 04:55:16 | jacques | lol |
| 04:55:27 | cbiffle | I can at least say I predated the TRS-80. Well, one of the TRS-80s. |
| 04:55:33 | jacques | we got a vic20 when i was a sophomore |
| 04:55:52 | jacques | then an original mac when I was a junior or senior |
| 04:55:52 | andersee | I got an Atari 400 when I was in 7th grade |
| 04:56:09 | cbiffle | Incidentally, I now have a 947K binary that can obtain the memory size of arbitrary processes! |
| 04:56:12 | jacques | first computer i used was commodore pet in 8th grade |
| 04:56:30 | cbiffle | First computer I used was a TRS-80 Model I. |
| 04:56:53 | cbiffle | (The binary is, of course, statically linked against glibc. Fixing that now.) |
| 04:56:54 | TomW | first one I owned was when I was an electronics tech working for AM Varityper back in 1978, we build them from scrapped Z80 boards (floppy controllers, video cards, etc). |
| 04:57:08 | cbiffle | TomW: Nice. :-) |
| 04:57:14 | cbiffle | I have meager Altair programming experience... |
| 04:57:26 | jacques | cool |
| 04:57:26 | TomW | it ran CP/M (80). |
| 04:57:58 | cbiffle | I like CP/M, for some reason. I supervised a port of Digital CP/M 68k to the TI-92 calculator a couple years back. |
| 04:58:08 | TomW | We would get boards for the guys up in Software Engineering and they would get us software. Mutually benefical relationship. |
| 04:58:11 | jacques | :-) |
| 04:58:12 | cbiffle | Ah, okay, libc gone, binary is 12k. |
| 04:58:24 | jacques | cbiffle: now ling against uclibc :-) |
| 04:58:28 | jacques | link |
| 04:59:13 | cbiffle | How do I force the use of uClibc? |
| 04:59:27 | jacques | cbiffle: use the uclibc gcc wrapper in buildroot-tux |
| 04:59:41 | cbiffle | Mmm. |
| 04:59:59 | cbiffle | I don't have buildroot-tux and I somehow doubt it's going to work with the bass-ackwards way I have my dev environment set up. Is there a linker flag I can pass on the command line? |
| 05:00:15 | cbiffle | (Keep in mind I'm cross-compiling twice: once to arm, once to linux. :-) |
| 05:00:32 | jacques | defers to andersee. |
| 05:00:58 | cbiffle | grins at andersee |
| 05:01:31 | cbiffle | andersee: the code I'm compiling will become a patch for ps if I can figure out how to test it against uClibc. :-) |
| 05:01:47 | jacques | that'll get his attention |
| 05:01:57 | andersee | cbiffle: if it works with glibc, it'll work against uClibc |
| 05:02:25 | andersee | cbiffle: see the busybox Makefile to config which lib it uses |
| 05:02:46 | cbiffle | andersee: Thanks! |
| 05:02:50 | cbiffle | trots off to compile |
| 05:03:57 | cbiffle | Say, btw, does busybox 0.60.2 use the /proc filesystem or the direct kernel driver in the buildroot-tux distribution? |
| 05:04:26 | jacques | well i know proc is mounted... |
| 05:04:30 | cbiffle | *nod* |
| 05:04:40 | cbiffle | Comments in the code say that not using /proc for ps saves 100k (!). |
| 05:04:55 | cbiffle | Oh. Nevermind, I think they mean using /proc in general. |
| 05:06:37 | andersee | cbiffle: it uses /proc, unless you patch your kernel and enable support for the /dev/ps driver I wrote... But almost nobody does that. |
| 05:07:17 | cbiffle | Incidentally, from time to time my tuxscreen will start taking newlines literally and not returning the carriage to the left margin. This makes listing code really, well...entertaining. How do I reset this tty aspect? |
| 05:07:35 | cbiffle | (I get the diagonal stripe of words effect.) |
| 05:09:20 | jacques | starts playing with the latest swm source. |
| 05:14:27 | Russ | try reset? |
| 05:18:49 | TomW | something screwy about the rootfs build. I wanted it to re-make the tuxscreen-image.jffs file, so I deleted it. WRONG thing to do! It starts rebuilding everything again. |
| 05:19:41 | TomW | Russ: sorry, what I meant to say was in the context of the buildroot makefile system. |
| 05:22:19 | TomW | jacques: I am making the rxvt part of the tinyx.mk, that way when someone builds X they get the apps as well. |
| 05:23:40 | sjm | Approx how much code needs to be downloaded to build tinyx/apps? |
| 05:23:45 | TomW | jacques: actually, rxvt is a seperate makefile, I make the tinyx depend on rxvt sources being built as well. |
| 05:23:56 | TomW | dunno yet. |
| 05:24:08 | TomW | X is pretty big. |
| 05:24:43 | sjm | 5M, 10M, 20M ? |
| 05:24:50 | TomW | cbiffle: the sources for X are in a 19Meg bz2 file. |
| 05:25:26 | cbiffle | ...Thanks! ? :-) |
| 05:25:36 | TomW | not all the sources get compiled, but you know X, there is darned little you can strip out without the Makefile bitchin' & complaining. |
| 05:25:58 | TomW | The binary for Xfbdev is approx 750K |
| 05:26:33 | jacques | TomW: hmm I think rxvt should depend on tinyx |
| 05:26:43 | jacques | TomW: and there should be a rxvt.mk |
| 05:26:55 | jacques | not sure what the best way to config which apps to build is... |
| 05:27:04 | jacques | i just built swm |
| 05:27:14 | cbiffle | So busybox's build dies when it tries to link the .o files. It complains about a bunch of undefined '<module>_main' references in applet.o. Thoughts? |
| 05:27:24 | jacques | but that was with the "full" config - -rwxr-xr-x 1 fontenot fontenot 31856 Apr 23 22:16 swm.full* |
| 05:27:43 | jacques | I know it can get down to 14kB, with the minimal config, but it's refusing to compile that way |
| 05:27:56 | TomW | jacques: no, it will get crazy in the buildroot Makefile. What I plan to do is make an XTARGETS variable, then you edit the tinyx.mk to selectively enable which apps you want built along with tinyx. |
| 05:28:15 | jacques | TomW: ok |
| 05:28:21 | andersee | cbiffle: rm -rf build/busybox* and try again |
| 05:28:36 | andersee | cbiffle: sounds like you have some leftovers or somehting |
| 05:28:37 | cbiffle | I'm building from the 0.60.2 sources; I don't have the whole buildroot here. |
| 05:28:39 | TomW | jacques: like we do in the buildroot-tux/Makefile with TARGETS. |
| 05:28:51 | andersee | cbiffle: or do a make clean... |
| 05:29:58 | jacques | TomW: ok that makes sense |
| 05:30:22 | TomW | jacques: rxvt is 103K? Seems like some stripping is needed? |
| 05:32:12 | jacques | TomW: it should get down to about 88k |
| 05:32:33 | jacques | maybe smaller if we disable some stuff like i said earlier, but most stuff is disabled by default |
| 05:32:40 | jacques | -rwxr-xr-x 1 fontenot fontenot 12572 Apr 23 22:32 swm* |
| 05:32:43 | jacques | :-) |
| 05:32:59 | jacques | required 2 source patches to get it to build with minimal config tho |
| 05:33:26 | TomW | I see a .comment section, but that is all that can be stripped, other than some possible debugging info. |
| 05:34:20 | david | quick question...you guys got sound working using shanip2 mod and /dev/dsp with ucb1x00-audio ? |
| 05:35:10 | TomW | -rwxr-xr-x 1 tom tom 89680 Apr 24 01:38 rxvt* |
| 05:35:14 | TomW | better |
| 05:35:27 | TomW | 20k is 20k.. |
| 05:35:57 | jacques | ah cool, there is a devel version of swm that does build without patching |
| 05:36:26 | jacques | TomW: yeah that's as small as I have gotten it |
| 05:37:15 | Russ | did you compile with -Os -fomit-frame-pointer and without -g? |
| 05:37:38 | Russ | and did you use strip --remove-section=.note --remove-section=.comment <file> |
| 05:38:04 | jacques | I heard -Os was not recommended on arm... |
| 05:38:10 | Russ | works fine for me |
| 05:38:54 | jacques | hmm |
| 05:39:30 | TomW | anyone want to venture a guess how I can get the buildroot Makefile to rebuild the tuxscreen-image.jffs2 now that I placed a new binary into root/ ?? Best if I didn't have to recompile the world, please. |
| 05:39:38 | jacques | cool, swm 1.3.5 builds full config 32k minimal 12k |
| 05:39:49 | Russ | TomW: is mkfs.jffs2? |
| 05:40:00 | TomW | ehhh, dunno. |
| 05:40:07 | TomW | I'll try it. |
| 05:40:17 | jacques | TomW: you said if you removed the image it started rebuilding everything? |
| 05:40:37 | TomW | yes, I started off by recompiling uClibc. |
| 05:41:35 | TomW | tinyx does not build in a friendly way: it does a 'make distclean' then it does a 'make', that sucker takes a *few* minutes to run out. |
| 05:42:13 | jacques | tinyx barely builds at all |
| 05:42:27 | jacques | but i have ranted enough about the free build system |
| 05:42:31 | jacques | xfree |
| 05:42:49 | jacques | TomW: get this, if you do a make clean in libs then make, it does not work |
| 05:42:58 | jacques | make clean removes a file that make needs |
| 05:43:07 | jacques | and does not know how to rebuild |
| 05:43:11 | jacques | you have to do make workd again |
| 05:43:15 | jacques | mke World |
| 05:43:20 | TomW | maybe if I do 'make jffs2root' that will do it. |
| 05:43:25 | jacques | should |
| 05:43:28 | jacques | something like that |
| 05:43:49 | jacques | http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~sperling/prog/swm-1.3.5-src.tgz |
| 05:43:56 | jacques | use that link for swm instead o fthe 1.3.4 one |
| 05:44:14 | jacques | swm config process kinda sucks - it asks a bunch of questions |
| 05:44:23 | jacques | dunno how bst way to handle that is |
| 05:44:23 | TomW | ok, 'make jffs2root' made a new one, now to upload it and check to see that my file is in the new image. |
| 05:44:43 | TomW | jacques: bitch at the author? |
| 05:45:04 | jacques | TomW: build jffs2 support into your kernel, and mount the image using loop device |
| 05:45:22 | jacques | (I think that works) |
| 05:45:28 | Russ | nope |
| 05:45:31 | Russ | use the mtdram module |
| 05:45:34 | jacques | :-\ |
| 05:45:42 | TomW | [tom@other buildroot-tux]$ ls -l root/usr/X11R6/bin/ |
| 05:45:42 | TomW | total 828 |
| 05:45:42 | TomW | -rwxr-xr-x 1 tom tom 753680 Apr 24 01:46 Xfbdev* |
| 05:45:42 | TomW | -rwxr-xr-x 1 tom tom 89680 Apr 24 01:46 rxvt* |
| 05:46:01 | Russ | take it those strip options didn't help |
| 05:46:49 | jacques | that's as good as it gets |
| 05:46:59 | jacques | at least for tinyx |
| 05:47:06 | cbiffle | andersee: should busybox produce .o's of its various components before trying to link applet.o and busybox.o together? |
| 05:47:19 | jacques | we may save space by disabling some stuff in rxvt but I dont know what - scrollbar ? |
| 05:48:18 | TomW | jacques: I have a 48Meg CF drive, I am not worried about size (yet), I want to see some functionality first. :-) |
| 05:48:21 | jacques | unstripped Xfbdev is like 890kB |
| 05:48:33 | Russ | TomW: what does it gzip to? |
| 05:48:45 | jacques | TomW: oh yeah, well I have 128MB so there! |
| 05:48:54 | jacques | Russ: about 400kB |
| 05:49:02 | jacques | gzip -3 ? |
| 05:49:06 | cbiffle | jacques: I have 64MB, putting me square in the middle of this debate. :-) |
| 05:49:58 | cbiffle | *sigh* I don't think I'm going to be able to compile anything interesting with my current toolchain. |
| 05:50:14 | jacques | i need to try out the new mkreiserfs - it has an option for journal size!! |
| 05:50:29 | jacques | before I didnt like reiser on CF because journal was fixed at 32MB |
| 05:50:46 | cbiffle | Journal size isn't a function of filesystem size? |
| 05:50:50 | TomW | -rwxr-xr-x 1 tom tom 376662 Apr 24 01:46 Xfbdev.gz* |
| 05:50:50 | TomW | -rwxr-xr-x 1 tom tom 42902 Apr 24 01:46 rxvt.gz* |
| 05:50:56 | jacques | wasnt a few months ago |
| 05:50:59 | TomW | that was gzip -3 |
| 05:51:04 | jacques | journal was ALWAYS 32MB |
| 05:51:17 | cbiffle | Hey, what toolchain would y'all recommend for linux-arm? It needs to include full linux headers. I've heard about one called codepoet... |
| 05:51:19 | jacques | hmm better than i remembered |
| 05:51:50 | jacques | cbiffle: glibc or uclibc toolchain? |
| 05:52:22 | Russ | emdebian |
| 05:52:36 | jacques | reiser had some info on theur site how to edit kernel source to change journal sie but it was out of date |
| 05:52:37 | Russ | or the www.arm.linux.org.uk one |
| 05:53:31 | jacques | cbiffle: the codepoet one is andersee's codepoet is his site |
| 05:53:31 | cbiffle | jacques: uClibc preferred. |
| 05:53:38 | jacques | and it's uclibc based |
| 05:54:05 | jacques | http://uclibc.org/downloads/toolchain/gcc-3.0.4-uclibc-20020410.src.tar |
| 05:54:14 | TomW | jacques: forgot to install the libraries for tinyx .. :-( |
| 05:54:18 | jacques | change makefile to use uclibc snap |
| 05:54:18 | | jacques: that doesn't look right |
| 05:54:29 | jacques | TomW: you only need libc for tinyx |
| 05:54:40 | jacques | TomW: it does not need any x libs |
| 05:54:45 | jacques | but of course rxvt does |
| 05:54:49 | TomW | yes, but rxvt wants libX11.so.6 |
| 05:54:50 | Russ | its more helpfull to have a 2.95.[2-4] toolchain so you can reliably compile kernels though |
| 05:54:57 | cbiffle | ... |
| 05:55:04 | Russ | I think it might produce smaller code on arm as well |
| 05:55:09 | cbiffle | Is the toolchain available in x86 linux binaries? Or does anyone know if it ports to FreeBSD? |
| 05:55:16 | jacques | cbiffle: what are you trying to do? |
| 05:55:27 | jacques | cbiffle: that link is toolchain source |
| 05:56:03 | cbiffle | Yup, I know. If the source hasn't had BSD compatibility effort put into it, I'll likely spend all night hacking Makefiles. I'm looking for binaries now. :-) |
| 05:56:24 | cbiffle | (Linux binaries I can run unmodified.) |
| 05:56:26 | cbiffle | I'll try building the source. |
| 05:56:36 | Russ | don't build a toolchain |
| 05:56:51 | cbiffle | No? |
| 05:57:14 | Russ | its a wasted day |
| 05:57:18 | jacques | TomW: you have minicom and zmodem? you can send libX11 over that way |
| 05:57:19 | cbiffle | *grin* That was my thought. |
| 05:57:26 | Russ | ttp://www.emdebian.org/crossdev.html |
| 05:57:27 | Russ | er |
| 05:57:30 | Russ | http://www.emdebian.org/crossdev.html |
| 05:57:58 | TomW | jacques: zmodem? I have been using xmodem, that is all I found in the blob sources. |
| 05:57:59 | Russ | or |
| 05:58:09 | Russ | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/tools.shtml |
| 05:58:24 | jacques | TomW: not in blob, once you are logged in over minicom |
| 05:58:55 | jacques | if you start the zmodem send from minicom, it will just work |
| 05:59:04 | jacques | it's cool (but still serial speed) |
| 05:59:04 | cbiffle | Russ: thanks. I think I can open RPMs....:-) |
| 05:59:28 | cbiffle | Russ: It's becoming a Linux world...:-) |
| 06:00:48 | cbiffle | The Linksys FA411 PCMCIA LAN card works just fine, despite being mislabeled as a 5V card. |
| 06:01:05 | cbiffle | (If anyone needs a LAN card. |
| 06:01:05 | cbiffle | ) |
| 06:01:12 | Russ | cbiffle: does it transmit and receive? |
| 06:01:22 | Russ | I find that 5V cards detect ok, but don't transmit |
| 06:01:31 | jacques | they are mislabeled |
| 06:01:39 | jacques | i am using 2 of them as we speak |
| 06:02:01 | jacques | they are working fine at 100Mb/s |
| 06:02:03 | sjm | has one too |
| 06:02:31 | cbiffle | Russ: Yes. It identifies itself to the system as a 3.3v card and works just peachy at 100M. |
| 06:03:15 | TomW | jacques: cool! rxvt runs! It complains about a missing 7x14 font, but it gives me a terminal. |
| 06:03:26 | jacques | TomW: yes I get tht error but it is benign |
| 06:03:30 | jacques | TomW: CONGRATS |
| 06:03:54 | jacques | TomW: now we need a wm :-D |
| 06:04:21 | jacques | at that point, we will have a complete minimal X system |
| 06:04:22 | TomW | jacques: tnx, still a bit more work to do before I commit. I have to get the libraries installed from tinyx into /usr/lib. |
| 06:04:34 | TomW | jacques: or won't that work? /usr/lib ? |
| 06:04:38 | cbiffle | andersee: Well, I have modifications made to ps.c that I -think- will generate memory-size listings in kilobytes for all processes. I have no way of building it to test, however. |
| 06:04:46 | jacques | TomW: /usr/lib is what I use - works fine |
| 06:05:03 | TomW | more logical, that is where they should live. |
| 06:05:15 | jacques | TomW: please install libX11 and libXext (and you might need a couple of symlinks too) |
| 06:05:17 | TomW | whew! fingers ache! |
| 06:05:22 | cbiffle | This is all a crash course for me -- I've gone from zero to two linux boxes since Friday (one TuxPhone, one JavaStation). |
| 06:05:26 | sjm | cbiffle: can't you build it for x86/libc6 ? |
| 06:05:30 | jacques | but it's a good pain :-D |
| 06:05:51 | cbiffle | sjm: My OS's /proc tree looks different. |
| 06:05:51 | TomW | cbiffle: heh, maybe you should have signed up for the linux class I am teaching. |
| 06:06:08 | jacques | TomW: you had 0 linux boxes and are teaching a linux class?? |
| 06:06:14 | jacques | :-) |
| 06:06:21 | cbiffle | TomW: Maybe. :-) Most of it's pretty transparent, as I was a SysV guy before Linux, but the implementation details are new. |
| 06:06:35 | cbiffle | s/Linux/FreeBSD/ in that last one. |
| 06:06:45 | TomW | smacks jacques |
| 06:07:05 | jacques | heh |
| 06:07:25 | jacques | oops I misread the name on that one |
| 06:07:26 | cbiffle | And that rhymes, since my Americanized brain insists on reading jacques as 'jacks.' (No offense, jacques, my brain reads chaos as chay-ohs as well.) |
| 06:07:31 | jacques | sorry TomW |
| 06:07:53 | TomW | jacques: we need a startx script, just to launch Xfbdev and to get rxvt running. |
| 06:08:22 | jacques | wm wm wm |
| 06:08:23 | TomW | gotta make this brain-dead simple. |
| 06:08:27 | jacques | wm |
| 06:08:30 | TomW | heh |
| 06:08:33 | cbiffle | Oooh, so even I can use it! :-) |
| 06:09:07 | cbiffle | Weeeeeell......anyone feel like building busybox? *grins innocently* |
| 06:09:28 | sjm | cbiffle: got a patch somewhere? |
| 06:09:34 | cbiffle | Russ: for some reason, my rpm tool won't accept those RPMs at the emdebian site. |
| 06:09:34 | TomW | cbiffle: yes, newbies need 'training wheels' (so do oldsters :) |
| 06:09:54 | cbiffle | sjm: If you have 0.60.2 sources I can send you a drop-in replacement... :-) |
| 06:10:05 | jacques | i still start x manually on my desktop, since I only need to do it about once every 3 months |
| 06:10:10 | cbiffle | sjm: Or, I could go create a patch. |
| 06:10:21 | sjm | BusyBox v0.61.pre (2002.03.18-16:20+0000) multi-call binary |
| 06:10:30 | cbiffle | Ah. Better get you a patch. :-) |
| 06:11:18 | jacques | TomW: heads up - swm in full configuration wants libXpm.so.4 in addition to libX11.so.6 |
| 06:12:01 | jacques | minimal sm does not need libxpm |
| 06:13:31 | cbiffle | sjm: http://apt.biffle.org:8082/ps.c.patch |
| 06:14:21 | sjm | ps.c.patch: Permission denied |
| 06:14:26 | cbiffle | heh. |
| 06:14:45 | cbiffle | Again? |
| 06:15:00 | sjm | er... no, my problem - trying to save in wrong dir. my fault. |
| 06:15:03 | jacques | at least libXpm is small |
| 06:15:06 | cbiffle | I may not have the right holes knocked in my fw. |
| 06:15:06 | cbiffle | Ah, okay. |
| 06:15:55 | cbiffle | That patch is, predictably, intended to be applied to ps.c. It simply adds a vmsize member to the process info structure, adds parsing logic for reading the data, and another column to the ps auxw listing. |
| 06:16:31 | sjm | sjm /win/sjm2/busybox/procps > patch -p1 < ps.c.patch |
| 06:16:32 | sjm | patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input. |
| 06:16:33 | cbiffle | Lemme know how high it blows. :-) |
| 06:16:35 | Russ | cbiffle: then get the erik mouv's tgz's |
| 06:17:18 | cbiffle | Russ: On that same site? |
| 06:17:31 | Russ | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/tools.shtml |
| 06:17:46 | sjm | cbiffle: diff -u ? |
| 06:18:02 | Russ | (and read the README) |
| 06:18:20 | cbiffle | sjm: Yes, yes. It's been a while. :_) |
| 06:18:33 | cbiffle | sjm: re-fetch, please. :-) |
| 06:18:41 | jacques | arg. one day I hope ldd makes it into the buildroot image |
| 06:19:20 | cbiffle | Russ: Is the Eric Mouv gcc3.0 toolchain considered stable, or should I stick to 2.95? |
| 06:19:20 | sjm | patching file `ps.c' |
| 06:19:21 | sjm | Hunk #1 succeeded at 57 (offset -2 lines). |
| 06:19:21 | sjm | Hunk #3 succeeded at 138 (offset -2 lines). |
| 06:19:30 | Russ | jacques: strings <binary> | head |
| 06:19:36 | Russ | 2.95 |
| 06:19:54 | Russ | that way, you can be sure that you can compile a sane bootloader/kernel as well |
| 06:19:57 | cbiffle | Russ: That's what I figured. |
| 06:20:37 | cbiffle | sjm: hunk #2 did not succeed? |
| 06:20:43 | jacques | Russ: unfortunately, no strings either :-( |
| 06:20:50 | sjm | looking... |
| 06:21:03 | cbiffle | sjm: I'll grab newer busybox sources and modify the patch. |
| 06:21:41 | sjm | cbiffle: looks good, starting build |
| 06:21:51 | cbiffle | sjm: No shiite? Groovy. |
| 06:22:27 | sjm | sjm /win/sjm2/busybox > ./busybox ps |
| 06:22:27 | sjm | PID Uid VmSize Stat Command |
| 06:22:27 | sjm | 1 root 1120 S init [3] |
| 06:22:28 | sjm | ps: Internal error! |
| 06:22:28 | sjm | 2 root 1120 S [kflushd] |
| 06:22:28 | sjm | ps: Internal error! |
| 06:22:30 | sjm | 3 root 1120 S [kupdate] |
| 06:22:53 | sjm | quite a few internal errors, but some processes work okay... |
| 06:23:02 | sjm | 20288 sjm 5976 S perl /usr/bin/dsirc -8 -r -s irc.openprojects.net:6667 |
| 06:23:03 | sjm | 22519 sjm 1584 S less ps.c.patch.1 |
| 06:23:03 | sjm | 22548 sjm 1400 R ps |
| 06:24:28 | cbiffle | Oooh! Yaaaay internal error! |
| 06:25:15 | cbiffle | Right after doing that, run, say, `cat /proc/3/status` and see if the VmSize line matches. |
| 06:26:41 | sjm | Hmm... all the processes that gave interal errors dont have Vm* entries |
| 06:27:02 | cbiffle | Good to know. |
| 06:27:40 | cbiffle | To keep my code consistent with the rest of busybox ps, I'm parsing /proc/#/status rather than the more machine-readable /proc/#/stat. I wasn't aware that /proc/#/status could have variable fields. |
| 06:29:21 | cbiffle | sjm: Do they have a field that looks like it'd be equivalent? |
| 06:30:01 | sjm | Err... looking a bit more closely, some have Vm*, and some dont... |
| 06:30:04 | cbiffle | sjm: Because even my init process on the TuxScreen has a VmSize entry. |
| 06:32:08 | cbiffle | sjm: You might try that patch again; I've made modifications to cope with missing VmSize lines. |
| 06:32:21 | | cbiffle: i don't know |
| 06:32:21 | cbiffle | ibot: what is cheese? |
| 06:32:25 | | bugger all, i dunno, cbiffle |
| 06:32:25 | cbiffle | ibot: why not? |
| 06:32:38 | | i don't know, cbiffle |
| 06:32:38 | cbiffle | ibot: why is tree? |
| 06:32:45 | | wish i knew, cbiffle |
| 06:32:45 | cbiffle | ibot: You're not good for much, are 'ya? |
| 06:34:05 | | rumour has it a tree is a big leafy thing |
| 06:34:05 | Russ | ibot: what is a tree? |
| 06:35:10 | | tree is a big leafy thing |
| 06:35:10 | cbiffle | ibot: why is tree? |
| 06:35:38 | | i heard sjm was using kernel-2.4.17-rmk5-aph with the buildroot from CVS and microwin-aph-11feb2002 |
| 06:35:38 | cbiffle | ibot: what is sjm? |
| 06:35:57 | | somebody said jacques was running rxvt quite well on the tux, tho it requires a bit of mucking with ptys |
| 06:35:57 | jacques | ibot: jacques? |
| 06:36:07 | | cbiffle: what? |
| 06:36:07 | cbiffle | ibot: cbiffle? :-) |
| 06:36:11 | | sjm: I forgot sjm |
| 06:36:11 | sjm | ibot: forget sjm |
| 06:36:23 | cbiffle | sjm: :-) |
| 06:36:50 | sjm | cbiffle: you need to add vmsize to the P and p structs |
| 06:37:10 | sjm | proc_t |
| 06:37:19 | cbiffle | ...I thought I had. *trots off to check* |
| 06:37:54 | cbiffle | sjm: that's what the first hunk of the patch -should- do. Is it defined elsewhere as well? |
| 06:38:17 | cbiffle | Or did I misunderstand? |
| 06:38:56 | sjm | make: *** [/win/sjm2/busybox/procps/ps.o] Error 1 |
| 06:39:03 | sjm | grr... |
| 06:39:12 | sjm | win/sjm2/busybox/procps/ps.c: In function `parse_proc_status': |
| 06:39:29 | cbiffle | Now, did make actually say 'grr...', or are you embellishing? |
| 06:39:30 | cbiffle | :-) |
| 06:40:13 | | i am a Micro$oft minion lurking to discover new innovative technology for the next Windoze release. |
| 06:40:13 | TomW | ibot, what are you? |
| 06:40:33 | | cbiffle: what? |
| 06:40:33 | cbiffle | ibot: one word: Appfolders. |
| 06:40:39 | | cbiffle: huh? |
| 06:40:39 | cbiffle | ibot: one word: Appfolders. |
| 06:42:03 | cbiffle | sjm: I cannot believe I did that. The patch has been updated to fix a startlingly stupid bug on my part. |
| 06:42:17 | sjm | upper case S ? |
| 06:42:27 | cbiffle | Ooh, where? |
| 06:42:37 | sjm | Ah... you didn't see that one? |
| 06:42:49 | cbiffle | I was thinking of '&P->vmsize' instead of 'P->vmsize'. :-) |
| 06:43:03 | sjm | if(p.vmSize == 0) |
| 06:43:21 | cbiffle | Eeeeeeeeeeesh. |
| 06:43:30 | cbiffle | permits everyone in the room to slap his forehead once. |
| 06:44:09 | cbiffle | Okay. Try again. I knew Java would come back to haunt me someday. |
| 06:44:25 | | i haven't a clue, cbiffle |
| 06:44:25 | cbiffle | ibot, what are you now? |
| 06:44:29 | | i am probably a Micro$oft minion lurking to discover new innovative technology for the next Windoze release. |
| 06:44:29 | cbiffle | ibot: what are you? |
| 06:44:36 | | no idea, cbiffle |
| 06:44:36 | cbiffle | ibot: are you sure? |
| 06:44:37 | sjm | cbiffle: very cool. Those that gave errors now just have a blank where the size should be. |
| 06:44:42 | cbiffle | *nod* |
| 06:44:46 | cbiffle | That's the goal. |
| 06:44:56 | cbiffle | Ideally, of course, I'd like to report a size. |
| 06:45:09 | jacques | heh it should say for the windoze release 10 years from now |
| 06:45:12 | sjm | 2544 sjm Z [netscape] |
| 06:45:12 | sjm | 2545 sjm 16668 S [netscape-commun] |
| 06:45:12 | sjm | 2785 root 1104 S [rpc.rquotad] |
| 06:45:13 | sjm | 2794 root 1244 S [rpc.mountd] |
| 06:45:13 | sjm | 2803 root S [nfsd] |
| 06:45:13 | sjm | 2804 root S [nfsd] |
| 06:45:15 | sjm | 2805 root S [nfsd] |
| 06:45:17 | sjm | 2806 root S [nfsd] |
| 06:45:30 | cbiffle | I may hack the source to use /proc/#/stat; I think the resulting binary might shrink some. |
| 06:45:41 | cbiffle | (Might.) |
| 06:46:08 | cbiffle | Do the column headers line up, sjm? |
| 06:46:17 | | TomW was last seen on #tuxscreen 6 minutes and 4 seconds ago, saying: ibot, what are you? [Wed Apr 24 07:40:13 2002] |
| 06:46:17 | jacques | ibot: seen TomW |
| 06:46:28 | | god was last seen on #tuxboxproject 102 days, 1 hours, 47 minutes and 38 seconds ago, saying: I am god [Sat Jan 12 04:58:50 2002] |
| 06:46:28 | cbiffle | ibot: seen god |
| 06:46:36 | cbiffle | Wow! A revolution in theology! |
| 06:46:40 | sjm | cbiffle: yep |
| 06:46:55 | jacques | i say i am therefore i am |
| 06:47:32 | | jacques: Something failed in connecting to the NOAA web server. Try again later. |
| 06:47:32 | jacques | ibot: weather ksjc |
| 06:47:32 | jacques | :-\ |
| 06:47:46 | | cbiffle: Something failed in connecting to the NOAA web server. Try again later. |
| 06:47:46 | cbiffle | ibot: weather mars |
| 06:47:46 | jacques | d'oh |
| 06:47:57 | | cbiffle: excuse me? |
| 06:47:57 | cbiffle | ibot: the NOAA does not cover mars. |
| 06:48:01 | | cbiffle: i'm not following you... |
| 06:48:01 | cbiffle | ibot: Nevermind. |
| 06:48:03 | | jacques: electro-magnetic pulses from French above ground nuke testing. |
| 06:48:03 | jacques | ibot: excuse |
| 06:48:05 | | OK, sjm. |
| 06:48:05 | sjm | ibot: sjm is http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~steve/index.html |
| 06:48:09 | jacques | LOL |
| 06:48:09 | cbiffle | LOL |
| 06:48:24 | | ibot is nothing but a mammering mass of onion-eyed guano. |
| 06:48:24 | andersee | ibot: insult ibot |
| 06:48:24 | | i guess sjm is http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~steve/index.html |
| 06:48:24 | cbiffle | ibot: sjm |
| 06:48:36 | | cbiffle: excuse me? |
| 06:48:36 | cbiffle | ibot: insult |
| 06:48:42 | | cbiffle: huh? |
| 06:48:42 | cbiffle | ibot: metainsult :-) |
| 06:49:01 | | You are nothing but a coughed-up thimbleful of egg-sucking armadillo snouts. |
| 06:49:01 | TomW | ibot insult me |
| 06:49:04 | TomW | heh |
| 06:49:08 | | jacques: no idea |
| 06:49:08 | jacques | ibot: say huh? |
| 06:49:10 | cbiffle | andersee: what was the decision behind the use of /proc/#/status rather than /proc/#/stat in busybox ps, do you remember? |
| 06:49:10 | | no idea, jacques |
| 06:49:10 | jacques | ibot: say huh? |
| 06:49:12 | | jacques: i haven't a clue |
| 06:49:12 | jacques | ibot: say huh? |
| 06:49:14 | | i haven't a clue, jacques |
| 06:49:14 | jacques | ibot: say huh? |
| 06:49:17 | jacques | sigh |
| 06:49:23 | andersee | cbiffle: don |
| 06:49:29 | andersee | cbiffle: don't remember |
| 06:49:30 | | cbiffle: huh? |
| 06:49:30 | cbiffle | ibot: sing the doom song. |
| 06:49:46 | cbiffle | andersee: Okay. I'll play with it. |
| 06:50:30 | cbiffle | andersee: It also sounds like I -may- have a preliminary patch that causes busybox ps to show process sizes. |
| 06:52:24 | | my desk is nothing but an half-faced puddle of spam-sucking Stimpy-drool. |
| 06:52:24 | cbiffle | ibot: insult my desk |
| 06:52:33 | cbiffle | Stimpy-drool. Awesom. |
| 06:52:37 | cbiffle | Heh. Awesome. |
| 06:53:39 | | Hiccuping & trembling into the WASTE DUMPS of New Jersey like some drunken CABBAGE PATCH DOLL, coughing in line at FIORUCCI'S!! |
| 06:53:39 | jacques | ibot: yow |
| 06:55:15 | cbiffle | Hello LoneTech. |
| 06:55:17 | LoneTech | lo |
| 06:55:30 | jacques | cabbage patch doll - ibot you are dating yourself |
| 06:55:38 | LoneTech | has anyone succeeded in building pcnet_cs into the kernel (not module)? |
| 06:56:35 | | cbiffle: huh? |
| 06:56:35 | cbiffle | ibot: date self |
| 06:56:40 | | cbiffle: i'm not following you... |
| 06:56:40 | cbiffle | ibot: date |
| 06:56:53 | | cbiffle: i'm not following you... |
| 06:56:54 | cbiffle | ibot: Schmernitz blargenfooger. |
| 06:57:06 | | jacques: no idea |
| 06:57:06 | jacques | ibot: are you following me? |
| 06:58:27 | jacques | TomW: what are you doing now? |
| 06:59:22 | cbiffle | sjm: Hey, do you have that newer busybox built for ARM? |
| 06:59:41 | TomW | the compile finally ran out, everything looks to be where it should be. let me upload it, test it, then, if it works, I'll commit what I have. |
| 07:00:00 | TomW | still a bit rough around the edges but it builds. |
| 07:00:01 | sjm | cbiffle: no, x86/libc6. I don't have an arm tool at work... |
| 07:00:17 | cbiffle | sjm: 'Sokay, I don't have an ARM tool that works, which is similar. :-) |
| 07:00:50 | jacques | TomW: sounds great! |
| 07:00:59 | sjm | cbiffle: give me about an hour and a half, and I'll be at home :) |
| 07:01:05 | TomW | cbiffle: http://www.openhardware.net/TuxScreen/Development.html |
| 07:01:53 | cbiffle | TomW: Yeah, I'm already downloading the tgz from the UK. |
| 07:03:32 | TomW | cbiffle: that is the one I use, 2.95.3. |
| 07:04:29 | cbiffle | TomW: *nod* Yeah, Russ pointed me at it. I'm still astonished that there's someone I've lived three doors down from in this channel. :-0 |
| 07:04:54 | TomW | WHAT?! Really!? |
| 07:05:32 | cbiffle | Yeah, Russ and I were in the same dorm at ASU freshman year, and lived in the same complex for two years after that. |
| 07:06:02 | TomW | ASU, Auburn State University? |
| 07:06:06 | cbiffle | Arizona. |
| 07:06:12 | TomW | doh |
| 07:06:20 | cbiffle | I'm cracking my phone open to see if I just didn't reattach the touchscreen correctly in my earlier explorations. |
| 07:06:54 | jacques | cbiffle: yeah the ts connector can be a bit tricky |
| 07:07:20 | TomW | jacques: ok, it works, now to commit this stuff... |
| 07:07:21 | cbiffle | *nod* Geek that I am, as soon as the phone showed up at my doorstep it was in about six pieces. I'm beginning to think that may not always be wise. :-) |
| 07:07:28 | jacques | TomW: whoo-hoo!! |
| 07:07:59 | jacques | TomW: time for me to head home - I will be on from there shortly |
| 07:08:08 | TomW | jacques: no decorations on the rxvt, no scrollbars or anything. |
| 07:08:31 | TomW | k, I'll be commited by then. heh |
| 07:08:32 | jacques | TomW: not without a wm |
| 07:08:47 | jacques | th omaybe we could get a sb... |
| 07:09:11 | jacques | TomW: do I understand correctly that you havent added a wm to the build yet ? |
| 07:09:32 | TomW | none |
| 07:10:10 | jacques | then that's as it should be |
| 07:10:31 | jacques | when oi get home I'm gonna start testing your commit with swm |
| 07:11:35 | jacques | ok, BIAB |
| 07:19:24 | KeyserSoze | something odd happened. when I have my application start on bootup, and try to open the serial port, it cannot. I while loop in to sleep for a few seconds until the port is opened, and now it works. |
| 07:21:10 | TomW | andersee: did you commit the changes that jacques & need for tinyx into the latest stable image, or should we still be taking the snapshot? |
| 07:21:36 | cbiffle | Okay. I'm pretty sure I had the touchscreen connected backwards. Now that I've got it flipped back around right, my message light is always on. Thoughts? |
| 07:22:41 | sjm | cbiffle: the ts cable should be flat against the LCD cable, not twisted. |
| 07:23:00 | cbiffle | *nod* But does the silver side go in or out? I think it goes in (toward the LCD). |
| 07:23:49 | sjm | Umm... whichever way 'flat' is :) |
| 07:24:00 | cbiffle | Flat in this situation is kind of ambiguous. :-) |
| 07:24:01 | sjm | time to go home, night all |
| 07:24:05 | fontenot | ok im home |
| 07:24:27 | sjm | okay, flat = in the same plane as the LCD ribbon cable |
| 07:24:48 | cbiffle | sjm: But when I do that, the silvered contacts don't seem to contact the pins in the connector. |
| 07:25:07 | TomW | fontenot: ok, I commited the changes, offloaded a fresh copy of the buildroot-tux, now it is compiling. |
| 07:25:18 | sjm | cbiffle: pull the plastic header up, slide the cable in as fas as it will go, then push the plastic header down to lock it. |
| 07:25:36 | sjm | waves good night |
| 07:25:55 | cbiffle | *sigh* |
| 07:25:57 | fontenot | TomW: Im about to dl a fresh copy myself |
| 07:27:37 | TomW | fontenot: having a cool system is no fun if you cannot get a decent GUI running.. |
| 07:28:04 | fontenot | TomW: well we are practically there |
| 07:29:32 | andersee | TomW: you need to use a uClibc snapshot for X to build |
| 07:29:57 | LoneTech | cbiffle: it does look confusing but it should not be twisted. did that mistake myself. |
| 07:30:00 | fontenot | TomW: I think until 0.9.12 comes out, we will be using snaps |
| 07:30:12 | cbiffle | Well, the message light stays on all the time now, with the touchscreen connected either way, even with power off (just on battery). And the phone functions don't respond. |
| 07:30:32 | LoneTech | touchscreen is independent of the dsp functions though.. |
| 07:30:57 | cbiffle | Touchscreen still doesn't work. |
| 07:31:05 | cbiffle | But the message light never stayed on like this before. |
| 07:31:11 | LoneTech | cbiffle: the two broken tuxscreens I've heard of had those symptoms (independent of touchscreen) |
| 07:31:36 | cbiffle | I've never actually tried the phone functions, come to think of it. I've been too busy getting Linux on there. |
| 07:32:16 | LoneTech | I haven't either, but I expect they would work if I had PFI. |
| 07:33:12 | fvgestel | LoneTech : Did you get your 3com 100mbit card to work ? |
| 07:33:21 | LoneTech | no |
| 07:33:29 | fvgestel | no MAC? |
| 07:33:46 | LoneTech | MAC read all 0s most of the time |
| 07:34:20 | LoneTech | when it didn't, trying to activate the interface didn't get it on the net; failed to communicate |
| 07:34:46 | fvgestel | did you try the cap->map_size = 0x4000000 thing? |
| 07:34:50 | LoneTech | the FA411 worked fine when I had pcnet_cs as a module but not at all with it built in. |
| 07:34:51 | LoneTech | yes |
| 07:35:21 | cbiffle | LoneTech: I'm using the FA411 now; the other TuxScreen owner I know has had the zero-MAC problem, I'll see what he wound up doing. |
| 07:36:09 | LoneTech | fvgestel: I also tried the changes the 589 driver had on the wiki for the 574 driver, but it still doesn't work for me |
| 07:36:10 | TomW | fontenot: ok on the snaps. |
| 07:37:10 | fvgestel | LoneTech : I've added Russel's adviced patch to the wiki now. The patch that was there before was kind of buggy. It only worked for even sized packets |
| 07:38:12 | LoneTech | the outsw/insw is the new one? |
| 07:38:18 | LoneTech | I'll try it when I get home |
| 07:38:20 | LoneTech | thanks |
| 07:38:22 | fvgestel | I think the FA411 isn't passed any options if compiled into kernel. Were there any options in /etc/pcmcia/options ? |
| 07:38:34 | LoneTech | no, no options |
| 07:38:42 | TomW | fontenot: I fscked up, xc won't build, wait... |
| 07:38:45 | LoneTech | but cardmgr doesn't seem to believe the driver exists |
| 07:40:14 | TomW | fontenot: ok, I got it, I didn't get your new stuff off of hh.org (cross.def, etc.) |
| 07:40:25 | fvgestel | Lonetech : I have to hard boot with the 3c562 card inserted and restart cardmgr to get it to detect the card |
| 07:41:09 | LoneTech | tried that. |
| 07:41:32 | LoneTech | I've never seen it handle swapping cards correctly |
| 07:41:49 | cbiffle | is really, really not pleased about this sudden development. |
| 07:42:42 | cbiffle | If I listen on the handset when I turn the machine on, I get maybe a half-second of soft static like I used to hear out of the handset with no line plugged in, then silence. |
| 07:43:00 | TomW | fontenot: ok, looks better now. :-/ |
| 07:49:42 | scanline | is away: ZzZz |
| 07:49:48 | cbiffle | Has anyone else seen this symptom set? |
| 07:50:20 | LoneTech | don't know about the static |
| 07:50:26 | cbiffle | Lack of static. :-) |
| 07:50:44 | cbiffle | I used to get the soft background static all the time when I'd pick up the receiver w/o a phone line; now only for a brief half-second burst. |
| 07:50:47 | fvgestel | I've installed familiar, but the touchscreen isn't working; do I need some extra device files? |
| 07:50:51 | LoneTech | but the phone not working and message light on has occured on two broken machines that I know of from the wiki |
| 07:50:53 | cbiffle | Also, when the thing boots all the way, it doesn't boo-dee-beep. |
| 07:51:22 | TomW | fontenot: done! |
| 07:51:41 | cbiffle | The touchscreen also has never worked, across different kernels. I think I may have been shafted with a broken unit here. :-\ |
| 07:54:21 | LoneTech | it is possible |
| 07:54:48 | cbiffle | *sigh* |
| 07:54:57 | cbiffle | knew he shouldn't have diverted money from food for a gadget. :-) |
| 07:58:35 | fontenot_ | GD POS DSL |
| 07:58:43 | fontenot_ | PACBELL MF's |
| 07:59:04 | fontenot_ | i think i missed a bunch of stuff |
| 07:59:13 | fontenot_ | TomW: wghat did you say after - it looks ok now |
| 07:59:39 | cbiffle | fontenot: he just said 'done!' |
| 07:59:39 | | Test cancelled. |
| 07:59:39 | fontenot_ | ibot: test |
| 07:59:44 | fontenot_ | cool |
| 08:03:15 | TomW | fontenot: ok, looks better now. :-\ |
| 08:03:35 | fontenot | TomW: looks better than what? |
| 08:03:40 | fontenot | when did it look bad ? |
| 08:04:32 | TomW | fontenot: it compiled and ran ok. I had tinyx abort the compile 'cause I was using the old hh.org files (cross.def). Once I updated them, it finished out. |
| 08:04:39 | fontenot | ah coolness |
| 08:05:07 | fontenot | i had forgotten to enable tinyx in top level makefile |
| 08:06:26 | fontenot | hmmm |
| 08:06:34 | fontenot | my Xfbdev is smaller than I expected |
| 08:06:47 | fontenot | maybe the strip I had been using is for shared libs |
| 08:07:01 | fontenot | TomW: how big is your Xfbdev ? |
| 08:08:15 | cbiffle | fontenot: It's not the size that matters, it's the depth of the pixels. |
| 08:08:38 | fontenot | heh, well |
| 08:09:06 | TomW | heh heh heh |
| 08:09:10 | fontenot | guess I should try flashing this image |
| 08:09:19 | cbiffle | Not even going to touch that one. |
| 08:09:21 | fontenot | TomW: what's the size ? |
| 08:09:41 | cbiffle | I think I'm going to go watch TV for a while to distract myself from the fried phone. :-\ |
| 08:09:42 | TomW | 753680 |
| 08:09:47 | fontenot | hmg |
| 08:09:56 | fontenot | -rwxr-xr-x 1 fontenot fontenot 708928 Apr 24 01:08 Xfbdev* |
| 08:10:03 | cbiffle | fontenot wins. |
| 08:10:05 | fontenot | i wonder what's up with that |
| 08:10:13 | TomW | scratches his head |
| 08:10:30 | fontenot | im more used to thisL |
| 08:10:31 | fontenot | : |
| 08:10:32 | TomW | poisened system? |
| 08:10:34 | fontenot | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 770132 Mar 27 2002 Xfbdev |
| 08:10:59 | fontenot | well I guess I'll try it out... |
| 08:12:09 | cbiffle | is away: doing something else |
| 08:15:18 | TomW | fontenot: you may be using a different compiler than what I am, that may explain it. Differing code generation / optimizers? |
| 08:15:42 | fontenot | dunno I'm donna try it again |
| 08:15:51 | fontenot | ill test this image and also rebuild |
| 08:16:47 | fontenot | that's a rather large size difference |
| 08:20:07 | fontenot | flashing ramdisk now |
| 08:22:05 | fontenot | wow things have changed a lot since I last flashed |
| 08:22:13 | fontenot | it came up with dhcp and everything |
| 08:23:28 | fontenot | TomW: well it all seems to work!!! |
| 08:23:34 | fontenot | X, rxvt |
| 08:24:01 | TomW | It has to be the compiler. I am using a 2.95.3 version, darned if I can remember where I snagged it. |
| 08:24:15 | TomW | startx works okay? |
| 08:24:23 | fontenot | im using a toolchain I built myself |
| 08:24:29 | fontenot | hmm I didnt try startx |
| 08:25:07 | fontenot | it looks like we dont need the -display:0 with rxvt (not sure why) |
| 08:25:23 | TomW | interesting. |
| 08:25:47 | TomW | BTW, any idea why we don't get any fonts built in tinyx? Any special reason? |
| 08:27:00 | fontenot | you mean why are no fonts built during the build? |
| 08:27:14 | fontenot | the font compiler wont build for some reason |
| 08:27:40 | fontenot | BTW, we may need a sleep after the X server start before starting clients in startx |
| 08:27:45 | fontenot | for reliability |
| 08:27:56 | TomW | the iPAQ.cf file doesn't have BuildFonts set to YES, it is NO. |
| 08:28:36 | fontenot | yeah but I dont think it will work anyway because the conpiler does not build |
| 08:28:54 | fontenot | bdftopcf |
| 08:29:33 | fontenot | AAAARG |
| 08:29:43 | fontenot | I was pinging, then I hit ctrl-C and the X server died |
| 08:29:52 | fontenot | i keep hearing that bug has been fixed |
| 08:30:03 | fontenot | maybe it needs a newer busybox |
| 08:30:08 | fontenot | andersee: you have any insight? |
| 08:31:19 | fontenot | heh I just started sawfish wm o nmy desktop displayed to the tux |
| 08:31:35 | fontenot | now to test swm (gotta build it at home first) |
| 08:32:17 | fontenot | TomW: have I told you how cool this is?? |
| 08:33:30 | TomW | heh |
| 08:34:02 | TomW | BTW, it also builds a handfull of X apps as well. xcalc, xclock, twm ... |
| 08:34:36 | TomW | ... still won't build any fonts though. |
| 08:36:02 | fontenot | because bdftopcf fails to build |
| 08:36:30 | fontenot | bdftopcf.o: In function `main': |
| 08:36:30 | fontenot | bdftopcf.o(.text+0x304): undefined reference to `bdfReadFont' |
| 08:36:43 | fontenot | well it came out same size second time too |
| 08:36:47 | TomW | interesting, vi is working correctly now on the backspace key, no more ^H stuck in the file. |
| 08:38:22 | fontenot | in rxvt ? |
| 08:42:01 | fontenot | hmm swm is not working |
| 08:44:06 | fontenot | well it's not the only tiny wm out there |
| 08:45:18 | TomW | drat it, I don't have the ftp installed in the ramdisk image. |
| 08:45:32 | TomW | I wanted to try out the xcalc |
| 08:46:28 | fontenot | TomW: just zmodem it over |
| 08:46:45 | fontenot | put it in an east to type dir like /tmp/togo |
| 08:46:55 | fontenot | then ctrl-a, s |
| 08:47:03 | fontenot | hit enter to choose zmodem |
| 08:47:12 | fontenot | g to go to directory |
| 08:47:21 | fontenot | select file, hit space and enter |
| 08:47:42 | fontenot | the tuxscreen will start the receive on it's end to current dir |
| 08:47:51 | fontenot | i just send libXpm over that way |
| 08:48:01 | fontenot | not sWm is complaining about fonts it cant find |
| 08:48:43 | fontenot | mow |
| 08:48:45 | fontenot | now |
| 08:51:33 | TomW | fontenot: oh! you mean to zmodem it while linux is running, ok. |
| 08:52:26 | TomW | too late, I erased the flash. I'll try that later. |
| 08:52:46 | TomW | I am going to try out the xclock, xcalc & twm apps. |
| 08:53:19 | fontenot | cool i found the magic combination |
| 08:53:26 | fontenot | of options that gets swm to run |
| 08:57:01 | fontenot | hmm swm seems kinda buggy |
| 08:58:36 | cbiffle | is back (gone 00:46:27) |
| 08:58:46 | cbiffle | Hello all. |
| 08:58:55 | fontenot | time to evaluate some more wm's |
| 08:58:57 | TomW | fontenot: WOW! that Zmodem really hauls ass! |
| 08:59:15 | cbiffle | TomW: Yeah, zmodem is damn nice. |
| 08:59:37 | fontenot | TomW: well not compared to ethernet |
| 08:59:56 | cbiffle | fontenot: Tee hee. |
| 09:00:39 | cbiffle | *sigh* I think I'm-a gonna have to ship this unit back to Tim. |
| 09:02:19 | fontenot | :-( |
| 09:03:49 | cbiffle | Ah, well. As long as he'll accept the exchange, vosque probably has a loaner unit I can continue developing on. It just knocks me out of commission for the evening. |
| 09:08:40 | TomW | fontenot: COOL! I have xclock running on my Tux! |
| 09:09:09 | fontenot | TomW: what libs did it need? |
| 09:09:13 | TomW | fontenot: I had to load a handfull of libraries to do it, but there it is! |
| 09:09:22 | fontenot | uh-oh - libXt ? |
| 09:09:37 | fontenot | i like oclock |
| 09:10:01 | TomW | libICE.so.6 libX11.so.6 libXext.so.6 libXpm.so.4 |
| 09:10:01 | TomW | libICE.so.6.3 libX11.so.6.2 libXext.so.6.4 libXpm.so.4.11 |
| 09:10:01 | TomW | libSM.so.6 libXaw.so.7 libXmu.so.6 libXt.so.6 |
| 09:10:01 | TomW | libSM.so.6.0 libXaw.so.7.0 libXmu.so.6.2 libXt.so.6.0 |
| 09:10:20 | TomW | better listing: |
| 09:10:22 | TomW | libICE.so.6@ libX11.so.6@ libXext.so.6@ libXpm.so.4@ |
| 09:10:22 | TomW | libICE.so.6.3* libX11.so.6.2* libXext.so.6.4* libXpm.so.4.11* |
| 09:10:22 | TomW | libSM.so.6@ libXaw.so.7@ libXmu.so.6@ libXt.so.6@ |
| 09:10:22 | TomW | libSM.so.6.0* libXaw.so.7.0* libXmu.so.6.2* libXt.so.6.0* |
| 09:11:46 | fontenot | man what a pig |
| 09:11:53 | fontenot | how big is libXt ? |
| 09:12:11 | fontenot | xclock is one of the old apps which has not been converted to not use libXt yet |
| 09:12:44 | TomW | oclock looks okay, I guess.. :-D tinyx is cool! |
| 09:13:20 | fontenot | yep! |
| 09:13:27 | TomW | you got it? |
| 09:14:32 | fontenot | TomW: hmm? got what? |
| 09:14:49 | TomW | the clock running |
| 09:14:59 | fontenot | oh no I am trying wm #2 |
| 09:15:11 | fontenot | matchbox |
| 09:15:16 | fontenot | but i with mallum was here |
| 09:15:19 | | mallum was last seen on #tuxscreen 10 hours, 33 minutes and 23 seconds ago, saying: BZFlag: I havn't toyed with it much yet though ... [Tue Apr 23 23:41:56 2002] |
| 09:15:19 | fontenot | ibot: seen mallum |
| 09:15:27 | TomW | oh, ok. You build 'em, I'll package 'em. |
| 09:15:35 | fontenot | all these new fangles wm's need to have files all over the place |
| 09:16:06 | fontenot | themes. config files, pixmaps |
| 09:17:22 | fontenot | i just want a wm that does not need any fonts or themes or config files - sensible defaults |
| 09:18:37 | cbiffle | So this ARM dev environment isn't seeing my includes in /usr/local/arm-linux/arm-linux/include. |
| 09:18:41 | cbiffle | Suggestions? |
| 09:18:52 | cbiffle | How is it that I make #include<file> look at that dir? |
| 09:18:59 | cbiffle | (It's too late for me to grok gcc.) |
| 09:21:58 | TomW | fontenot: xeyes work as well. |
| 09:23:16 | fontenot | i bet it does |
| 09:23:19 | fontenot | and xlogo |
| 09:23:20 | fontenot | and ico |
| 09:23:39 | vosque | yawns. |
| 09:24:46 | vosque | I use aewm |
| 09:24:53 | vosque | smart looking wm with no config files. |
| 09:25:05 | fontenot | vosque: yeah I just downloaded that one to try |
| 09:25:20 | fontenot | vosque: but I noticed it does not look too touchscreen-friendly |
| 09:25:28 | vosque | really? |
| 09:25:33 | fontenot | it wants all three buttons just to move resize and raise a window |
| 09:25:35 | vosque | It seemed pretty friendly to me. |
| 09:25:42 | vosque | ah |
| 09:25:54 | vosque | you can close a window by holding down on that boxy thing, iirc. |
| 09:26:03 | TomW | fontenot: this looks like we did it right. I have xeyes + oclock running on tinyx and both are functioning fine. |
| 09:26:16 | fontenot | TomW: I'm not too surprosed :-D |
| 09:26:27 | fontenot | (and suddenly everything crashes) |
| 09:26:35 | TomW | I am, I did this too you know! |
| 09:26:48 | TomW | heh, didn't turn to mud this time. |
| 09:26:52 | fontenot | well congrats! |
| 09:27:02 | TomW | you too! |
| 09:27:03 | fontenot | take some screenshots |
| 09:27:10 | TomW | right |
| 09:27:21 | fontenot | you have import installed on your linux box? |
| 09:27:31 | fontenot | you can use it to remotely take screenshots |
| 09:27:55 | TomW | uh, yes. |
| 09:28:12 | fontenot | something like 'import -root -display foo:0 screen1.jpg' |
| 09:28:22 | TomW | k |
| 09:28:23 | fontenot | see man page, I forget |
| 09:29:30 | fontenot | ah it's screen |
| 09:29:32 | fontenot | =screen |
| 09:29:35 | fontenot | -screen |
| 09:29:46 | fontenot | and needs another option to not require intervention on remote host |
| 09:31:03 | fontenot | import -window root -display 192.168.1.101:0 foo0.png |
| 09:31:06 | fontenot | that works |
| 09:31:23 | fontenot | unfortunately becuase of unisys, it makes uncompressed gifs |
| 09:31:32 | fontenot | and jpgs are lossy |
| 09:31:35 | fontenot | so I use png |
| 09:32:09 | fontenot | most modern browsers can display png anyway |
| 09:35:08 | TomW | enough, I am quiting for the day (night?). |
| 09:38:14 | fontenot | TomW: OK, sleep well |
| 09:38:20 | fontenot | I'm going to work on wm's for a few more hours |
| 09:38:36 | fontenot | i get up late :-) |
| 09:38:48 | fontenot | TomW: did you get any screenshots ? |
| 09:38:59 | fontenot | import -window root -display 192.168.1.101:0 foo0.png |
| 09:39:48 | TomW | no, I was going to see how to set the geometry stuff to get oclock from overlapping xeyes, but.. |
| 09:40:25 | TomW | right now, both of them are on top of each other. |
| 09:40:42 | fontenot | TomW: aah, yeah well why not run a wm on your desktop displayed to the tux ? |
| 09:40:51 | fontenot | then you can move things around |
| 09:41:03 | fontenot | -geometry would also work tho |
| 09:53:27 | TomW | fontenot: I have screen shot. |
| 09:57:52 | fontenot | :-D |
| 09:58:10 | fontenot | where? |
| 09:58:27 | TomW | trying to find more stuff to clutter the screen with. |
| 09:59:09 | fontenot | xeyes ico xlogo xclock oclock rxvt |
| 09:59:19 | fontenot | it's a small screen :-) |
| 10:01:24 | fontenot | hi mallum!!! |
| 10:01:32 | mallum | fontenot: hi |
| 10:01:42 | mallum | fontenot: tinyX is stupid ... |
| 10:01:49 | fontenot | ?? |
| 10:02:13 | mallum | fontenot: what Im battling with today .... |
| 10:02:57 | mallum | fontenot: I cant get it to open the touchscreen device |
| 10:03:14 | fontenot | hmmm |
| 10:03:17 | mallum | fontenot: its compiled with touchscreen support, but make no effort to touch /dev/ts |
| 10:03:23 | fontenot | on tuxscreen ? |
| 10:03:26 | mallum | fontenot: this isn't on the tuxscreen BTW |
| 10:03:30 | fontenot | aah |
| 10:03:41 | fontenot | well the ts driver in tinyx is fried |
| 10:03:52 | fontenot | mallum: ooooh - is this something later than 10-10-01 source ? |
| 10:03:58 | fontenot | that cost me hours |
| 10:04:07 | fontenot | i think I know what you are referring to |
| 10:04:16 | fontenot | that mi crap |
| 10:04:28 | mallum | fontenot: Im building an Xchips tinyX server |
| 10:04:40 | fontenot | i never solved it - resolved to ask jg when I see him |
| 10:04:51 | fontenot | that's why we are using 10-10-01 source |
| 10:05:12 | mallum | fontenot: X source ? |
| 10:05:44 | fontenot | yep |
| 10:05:57 | fontenot | they added that mi crap day after that - keithp did |
| 10:06:08 | fontenot | and it's been brokedn ever since for me |
| 10:06:57 | fontenot | whoo - we have a candidate wm |
| 10:07:05 | | i think which is calling something like /bin/bash, or /usr/bin/perl, or something like that? |
| 10:07:05 | vosque | which? |
| 10:07:22 | fontenot | i patched aewm to use button 1 for move/resize sted button 2 |
| 10:08:01 | fontenot | because those are the important ones - not raise-hide and lower/delete |
| 10:08:16 | mallum | fontenot: use matchbox |
| 10:08:24 | | matchbox is a X11 window manager for handheld devices. Info, screenshots & downloadable at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox . Ipkg is in the familiar unstable feed. Development versions and other goodies at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/ |
| 10:08:24 | mallum | ibot: matchbox |
| 10:08:31 | fontenot | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 21352 Apr 24 2002 aewm |
| 10:08:50 | mallum | fontenot: whats the mi crap ? |
| 10:08:55 | fontenot | mallum: yes i dl/d it and kinda built it a little while ago |
| 10:09:09 | fontenot | but it wants config files or something and i was going to wait til I saw you |
| 10:09:45 | fontenot | KdMouseInfo *mi = closure; |
| 10:09:45 | fontenot | int fd = (int) mi->driver; |
| 10:09:49 | fontenot | that crap |
| 10:10:19 | mallum | fontenot: aha, and what does that break ? |
| 10:10:34 | fontenot | I could never get KdRegisterFd() to return me anything |
| 10:10:43 | fontenot | IIRC |
| 10:10:54 | fontenot | it's supposed to return an fd but it never did |
| 10:12:11 | mallum | fontenot: matchbox was probably looking for a theme file, which was not where it expected as there was no 'make install' step. |
| 10:12:17 | fontenot | when keithp first added the mi stuff he didnt even mod ts.c so it would not even compile |
| 10:12:23 | file | eh? |
| 10:12:44 | fontenot | i emailed him and he moded it to compile but not work |
| 10:13:08 | mallum | fontenot: "but it wants config files or something and i was going to wait til I saw you" |
| 10:13:27 | mallum | fontenot: I think keithp is busy with xft stuff |
| 10:13:30 | fontenot | mallum: which files does matchbox absolutely need? and where should I put them |
| 10:14:03 | fontenot | at this stage I was looking for a wm that could run without too many associated helper apps and files |
| 10:14:19 | mallum | fontenot: after a make install it'll put files in /usr/local/share/matchbox |
| 10:14:51 | mallum | fontenot: matchbox just needs some xpms , and a theme file |
| 10:15:09 | fontenot | mallum: OK I am going to try it out after I get some aewm screenshots |
| 10:15:10 | mallum | fontenot: next version will run with no extra's |
| 10:15:16 | fontenot | mallum: WHOO!!! |
| 10:15:28 | mallum | fontenot: matchbox started out as an aewm hack |
| 10:15:33 | fontenot | i want to use matchbox if you think it's appropriate for the tuxscreen |
| 10:15:37 | mallum | fontenot: theres little left of aewm now ... |
| 10:15:41 | fontenot | i would like to capitalize on the momentum |
| 10:15:57 | mallum | Id like to see it on the tuxscreen :) ( mine is in pieces ) |
| 10:16:00 | | matchbox is a X11 window manager for handheld devices. Info, screenshots & downloadable at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox . Ipkg is in the familiar unstable feed. Development versions and other goodies at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/ |
| 10:16:00 | file | what's matchbox? |
| 10:16:05 | fontenot | ll |
| 10:16:07 | fontenot | lol |
| 10:16:14 | mallum | fontenot: hwere can I get this 10-10-01 source from ? |
| 10:16:15 | | fontenot: i'm not following you... |
| 10:16:15 | fontenot | ibot does something right for once |
| 10:16:16 | file | thank you ibot |
| 10:17:49 | fontenot | hmm I want to send you a shell script on private channel |
| 10:18:03 | fontenot | export CVSROOT=:pserver:anoncvs@anoncvs2.xfree86.org:/cvs |
| 10:18:04 | fontenot | # password is 'anoncvs' |
| 10:18:04 | fontenot | cvs login |
| 10:18:04 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/config |
| 10:18:09 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/util |
| 10:18:09 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/extras |
| 10:18:09 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/include |
| 10:18:10 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/lib |
| 10:18:12 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/programs |
| 10:18:14 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/nls |
| 10:18:18 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/Imakefile |
| 10:18:20 | fontenot | cvs -z 3 co -D "October 10, 2001" xc/Makefile |
| 10:18:22 | fontenot | mallum: that's what I use |
| 10:18:29 | fontenot | or you can dl the bz2ball |
| 10:18:35 | fontenot | http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/xc-011010.tar.bz2 |
| 10:18:48 | fontenot | that's just the result of that script |
| 10:19:14 | fontenot | TomW: for some reason when I tried to accept those shots, they failed :-( |
| 10:19:47 | TomW | thats ok, I am trying to remember how to login to my sf account.. |
| 10:19:58 | TomW | I'll put it on the wiki. |
| 10:20:02 | file | lol |
| 10:20:09 | file | over shell, or website? |
| 10:21:34 | mallum | fontenot: cool, I will downlaod |
| 10:21:58 | fontenot | mallum: there's a patch on the wiki to ts.c for that source that makes ts work with new kernel driver |
| 10:22:12 | fontenot | well the one for the tuxscreen anyway |
| 10:22:21 | mallum | fontenot: cool, the driver Im using provides the old stylie /dev/ts |
| 10:22:41 | mallum | fontenot: its the first kerenel coding I've done ... |
| 10:22:58 | fontenot | hmmm |
| 10:23:13 | fontenot | TomW: can you see if you can receive that? I bet you cant - my firewall :-( |
| 10:23:27 | TomW | No, I couldn't get it. |
| 10:23:47 | file | bad firewall, bad |
| 10:24:00 | fontenot | TomW: OK, I will put mine up on intimate |
| 10:24:46 | fontenot | TomW: I have aewm running on the tux ! |
| 10:25:33 | TomW | http://www.openhardware.net/screenshot-tinyx.png |
| 10:27:34 | fontenot | TomW: oh yeah? http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/aewm1.png |
| 10:28:41 | file | crys |
| 10:28:43 | file | I can't read .png files |
| 10:28:50 | | rumour has it windows is a trap,...an evil pit of quicksand that conjures people away from being free. A small door to freedom can be found at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/WindowsPPPHowto http://www.linux.org or http://www.linux.com |
| 10:28:50 | gharf | windows? |
| 10:29:09 | fontenot | file: sorry - gif is too huge uncompressed and jpg is lossy |
| 10:29:35 | fontenot | file: which browser you using? do you have any display progs that can do png ? |
| 10:30:12 | TomW | fontenot: oooh! |
| 10:30:18 | mallum | fontenot: matchbox now, matchbox now .... |
| 10:30:55 | file | I have no display progs that do .png |
| 10:30:56 | file | I use IE 4 |
| 10:31:38 | TomW | fontenot: I notice that your clock is two hours slow... |
| 10:31:40 | fontenot | TomW: im about to trump you so bad... |
| 10:31:47 | TomW | heh |
| 10:32:15 | TomW | brain is tired, mind won't think, body wobbling.. |
| 10:33:00 | fontenot | bam! http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/aewm2.png |
| 10:33:11 | fontenot | two of those apps are running on my other tux |
| 10:33:23 | fontenot | my clock is about 2 weeks slow |
| 10:33:59 | fontenot | that's nixieclock and agendaroids |
| 10:34:09 | TomW | lol "Agendaroids". |
| 10:34:36 | file | ^.^ |
| 10:35:44 | fontenot | see what a difference a wm makes ? :-D |
| 10:36:01 | TomW | you win, I removed the file from sf. |
| 10:36:22 | fontenot | nooo, that wasnt my intention :-( |
| 10:36:29 | TomW | how do you select apps to launch them with? |
| 10:36:45 | KeyserSoze | how do you take screenshots? |
| 10:36:56 | fontenot | TomW: heh, right now I am running them on the command line from minicom |
| 10:37:08 | fontenot | KeyserSoze: import -window root -display 192.168.1.101:0 foo0.png |
| 10:37:22 | KeyserSoze | is that specific to a GUI? |
| 10:37:30 | file | disappears |
| 10:37:51 | fontenot | KeyserSoze: it requires imagemagick to be installed on the machine taking the shot - it takes the shot remotely |
| 10:37:59 | fontenot | KeyserSoze: it's specific to X |
| 10:38:42 | fontenot | TomW: can we put our shots soemwhere linked from the wiki ? i want ppl to see them |
| 10:38:52 | file | JPG! |
| 10:38:52 | KeyserSoze | and how did you know my tux's IP address? |
| 10:38:52 | KeyserSoze | :) |
| 10:39:00 | fontenot | lol |
| 10:39:18 | fontenot | file: they'll be huge and look like crap, but OK I'll make one just for you |
| 10:39:28 | file | thanks |
| 10:39:47 | file | I could make a snotty remark to that, but I'm not going to |
| 10:40:41 | fontenot | file: hmm it's relatively huge but does not look bad: http://intimate.handhelds.org/jacques/aewm2.jpg |
| 10:40:57 | fontenot | 3 times the size of the png |
| 10:40:59 | file | how huge? |
| 10:41:06 | fontenot | 57kB |
| 10:41:09 | file | oh well! |
| 10:41:11 | TomW | http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/BuildingTinyX |
| 10:41:11 | fontenot | sted 19 |
| 10:41:17 | file | looks fun |
| 10:41:37 | fontenot | TomW: cool :-) |
| 10:42:02 | TomW | we gotta tear that page apart now, you know that? |
| 10:42:12 | fontenot | i ned to set the date on my tux and take the shots |
| 10:42:22 | TomW | to build tinyx: |
| 10:42:25 | fontenot | TomW: you mean because it's no longer needed ? |
| 10:42:30 | TomW | 1. get latest buildroot |
| 10:42:49 | TomW | 2. edit makefile and remove comment in front of tinyx |
| 10:42:54 | fontenot | TomW: for now, we should add that at the beginning, and leave the rest tehre for historical reasons temporarily |
| 10:42:55 | TomW | 3. make |
| 10:43:10 | fontenot | or be really crual, and put that at the very bottom of the page |
| 10:43:23 | fontenot | or, just get latest buildroot and enable tinyx |
| 10:43:26 | fontenot | :-D |
| 10:43:41 | file | must soon go |
| 10:44:12 | file | like in a few minutes |
| 10:45:34 | file | disappears |
| 10:45:44 | | mallum: what? |
| 10:45:44 | mallum | ibot: buildroot |
| 10:46:19 | mallum | fontenot: is latest buildroot from CVS or downloadable vi sf site ? |
| 10:46:43 | fontenot | mallum: cvs |
| 10:47:03 | fontenot | OK I set the date and retook aewm2 shot |
| 10:47:28 | fontenot | mallum: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.tuxscreen.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tuxscreen login |
| 10:47:28 | fontenot | cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.tuxscreen.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/tuxscreen co buildroot-tux |
| 10:47:30 | TomW | fontenot: complete with instructions: http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/BuildingTinyX |
| 10:47:48 | fontenot | TomW: OK |
| 10:48:08 | TomW | heh |
| 10:48:09 | fontenot | TomW: Cool :-D |
| 10:48:55 | fontenot | this will make a lot of ppl very happy |
| 10:49:07 | fontenot | TomW: tomorrow, wm ? |
| 10:49:22 | TomW | yes. |
| 10:49:34 | mallum | fontenot: cool, thx |
| 10:49:41 | mallum | fontenot: please try matchbox :) |
| 10:49:49 | fontenot | mallum: I am going to :-) |
| 10:49:59 | mallum | fontenot: cool |
| 10:50:26 | mallum_shower_fo | brb |
| 10:52:52 | fontenot | wish i had some food in the house |
| 10:55:39 | fontenot | going idle for a bit |
| 10:56:15 | fontenot | coool I can change the topic |
| 10:57:29 | fontenot | ok going idle for real now |
| 11:00:09 | TomW | fontenot: g'nite |
| 11:29:19 | ctr | is away: hair cut |
| 12:06:49 | ctr | is back (gone 00:37:29) |
| 16:25:03 | | sjhill: sorry... |
| 16:25:03 | sjhill | ibot: |
| 16:25:12 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 8 hours, 55 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying: TomW: you need to use a uClibc snapshot for X to build [Wed Apr 24 08:29:32 2002] |
| 16:25:12 | sjhill | ibot: seen andersee |
| 16:45:57 | sjhill | andersee got a question |
| 16:46:15 | prpplague | andersee: morning |
| 16:46:46 | prpplague | andersee: well is the new CTO at lineo going to hook you up with some work? |
| 16:50:18 | andersee | Maybe later, but for now I've got all the work I can handle (and then some)... :) |
| 16:50:33 | prpplague | andersee: good to here |
| 16:50:51 | prpplague | andersee: did you decide on attending OLS? |
| 16:52:20 | andersee | prpplague: I'm still trying to wiggle a sponsorship, but so far -- nope. |
| 16:59:02 | prpplague | andersee: bummer |
| 17:14:41 | pmisfit | /back |
| 17:14:56 | pmisfit | ??? |
| 17:15:11 | pmisfit | has still not quite figured out irc |
| 17:15:18 | pmisfit | is back (gone 12:28:38) |
| 17:15:39 | pmisfit | reads.... |
| 17:16:18 | pmisfit | they got tinyx running last nite! whoa. that's huge. great work! |
| 17:17:38 | pmisfit | starts the "cvs update; make && make tinyx && make" cycle going, just for grins |
| 17:24:28 | pmisfit | is away: running errands |
| 17:30:35 | andersee | howdy Tim |
| 17:31:07 | BZFlag | hey all. |
| 17:31:08 | prpplague | BZFlag: congrads on your promotion(demotion?)! |
| 17:31:17 | scanline | is back (gone 09:41:35) |
| 17:32:03 | prpplague | BZFlag: now that your the big man around there, you know if the uclinux port for net+arm is alive? |
| 17:32:36 | BZFlag | prpplague: commotion ? ;-) |
| 17:32:42 | prpplague | BZFlag: lol |
| 17:33:39 | BZFlag | prpplague: I'd say whatever lineo toronto is now, that they would be the possible maintainers. I don't know of anyone in "Embedix, Inc." working on it. |
| 17:34:27 | prpplague | BZFlag: ok thanks, i'll check there |
| 17:40:52 | BZFlag | http://www.heraldmall.com/heraldextra/classifieds/class_ad.php?cat=Legal_Notices&sub=0999&sub_name=Legal+Notices&day=Sunday&type= |
| 17:40:58 | BZFlag | serach for Lineo. |
| 17:41:02 | BZFlag | er search. |
| 17:42:41 | BZFlag | so you've got 15 minutes left to buy Lineo. |
| 17:43:32 | andersee | Oh oh -- buy! buy! buy! |
| 17:44:18 | BZFlag | jfree just headed over there, don't know if he has enough pocket change though. |
| 17:45:40 | andersee | Any goodies on the action block? |
| 17:46:11 | sjhill | do they have any of the fancy expensive office chairs? can't remember the name of them |
| 17:46:47 | sjhill | BZFlag: you're the CTO aren't you? |
| 17:48:02 | BZFlag | sjhill: yeah. |
| 17:48:14 | scanline | is away: class |
| 17:48:58 | BZFlag | this is just part of the shell game. As I understand it canopy will bid the money they are owed, and get all assests unless someone else bids more. |
| 17:49:44 | BZFlag | in which case canopy gets back the money they are owed. and the neww owners get the assets |
| 18:06:27 | andersee | That makes the assumption that the leftovers are somhow worth enough to repay canopy plus others... |
| 18:31:16 | BZFlag | agreed |
| 18:44:55 | CosmicPenguin | anyone buy it yet? |
| 18:49:36 | BZFlag | I have not heard back yet. expecting jfree to return any minute. |
| 18:51:20 | BZFlag | Thomas O'Connell ? |
| 18:51:50 | andersee | BZFlag: is that the way you normally start conversations? |
| 18:52:03 | | i guess that is very funny. |
| 18:52:03 | CosmicPenguin | who's that? |
| 18:53:02 | pmisfit | is back (gone 01:28:33) |
| 18:53:20 | pmisfit | CosmicPenguin: http://www.tocproperty.com |
| 18:54:23 | pmisfit | guessing, based on context... |
| 18:55:28 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a british auctioneer |
| 18:55:54 | prpplague | hmm, looks like aleph is going to do a production run of larts, any here going to order some? |
| 18:56:25 | pmisfit | really? i thought the sa1100 was out of production? |
| 18:57:06 | pmisfit | would love a lart if he could get it for same price or less than a tux ;-) |
| 19:03:27 | BZFlag | Erik Andersen ? |
| 19:03:32 | BZFlag | grins. |
| 19:04:27 | BZFlag | got 2 orders from a "Thomas O'Connell", and I was just wondering if he was here to ask a few questions. |
| 19:07:09 | file | I want a free Tuxscreen :p |
| 19:07:46 | Morn | hi all |
| 19:08:23 | Morn | I saw some mention that opie can compile on the Tuxscreen? |
| 19:08:33 | Morn | is there a patch somewhere for this? |
| 19:09:58 | cbiffle | Morn: We got it to compile unpatched, though without digitizer support. Digitizer support will come as soon as I get my hands on a TuxScreen with a working digitizer. :-\ |
| 19:10:11 | scanline | is back (gone 01:21:56) |
| 19:20:14 | CosmicPenguin | cbiffle transaltor digitizer = touchscreen |
| 19:21:49 | Morn | I would love to have opie running |
| 19:22:14 | Morn | cbiffle: Is there a patch for buildroot stuff yet? |
| 19:22:26 | Morn | I'd live with just the keyboard navigation for now |
| 19:22:42 | Morn | And, I would port some of the phone dialing tools to opie for it |
| 19:22:46 | Morn | sound like a deal? |
| 19:24:32 | Morn | btw, I just got my pocketpc to do streaming video from the SnapStream product very well |
| 19:24:35 | Morn | that is very cool |
| 19:26:41 | andersee | cbiffle: hows that ps patch? |
| 19:27:05 | andersee | is going to try to make a release of busybox today.... For real this time |
| 19:29:15 | Morn | hums happily |
| 19:31:12 | BZFlag | andersee: want some SF info? |
| 19:31:56 | BZFlag | cbiffle: what's the flash footprint? I assume you are running OPIE on a CF card or NFS root? |
| 19:32:41 | BZFlag | cbiffle: have you tried putting Inferno back? |
| 19:32:56 | BZFlag | that would show for sure if it's a hardware issue. |
| 19:33:12 | Morn | What is the status on using the 32meg sodimms? |
| 19:33:24 | BZFlag | or somone with a working pico/micro/x filesystem could put that up on SF. |
| 19:33:29 | Morn | I have one installed, but the unit only sees part of it |
| 19:34:00 | BZFlag | Morn: you need a hardware mod or someone needs to hack the kernel decompressor. |
| 19:34:41 | BZFlag | TomW and I have 64M phones now with 32M on board and the 32M sodimm. |
| 19:35:02 | Morn | I don't need the 32m on board, just for it to see the 32m sodimm |
| 19:35:22 | Morn | I'm afraid hacking the kernel is out of my league |
| 19:35:43 | Morn | I also need to figure out why my phone only wants to dial in pulse not touch tone |
| 19:35:45 | BZFlag | right. the issue is that with the bootloader configured to see all 32M on the sodimm the kernel will not boot. |
| 19:36:17 | BZFlag | cause the onboard changes from 2 4M regions to 8 1M regions. |
| 19:36:30 | BZFlag | and the kernel decompressor can not handle that. |
| 19:36:55 | BZFlag | with 32M on board, I have 4 16M regions and the kernel loads just fine. |
| 19:37:37 | Morn | ah |
| 19:37:40 | BZFlag | with a hw mod you can get the memory to be reversed, ie: 16M,16M,1M,1M,1M,1M,1M,1M,1M,1M |
| 19:37:51 | BZFlag | which works ok too. |
| 19:37:57 | Morn | I'm too afraid of messing up the phone |
| 19:38:08 | Morn | My hands shake too much from the medications |
| 19:38:43 | BZFlag | then the only option is to wait till someone(tm) fixes the kernel decompressor or some other sw solution. |
| 19:38:54 | Morn | I understand |
| 19:39:20 | Morn | btw, I found out that my pcmcia ide adpater works with the 5v hack |
| 19:39:35 | Morn | I hooked up a 6 gig laptop hard drive and it saw it just fine |
| 19:41:39 | Morn | and again, when I figure out how to build opie for the tuxscreen I'll port some of the phone tools over to it |
| 19:41:45 | Morn | like an onscreen dialer |
| 19:44:57 | BZFlag | cbiffle: under battery power you can't even dial pulse? |
| 19:45:06 | BZFlag | that does sound more like a hw issue. |
| 19:47:33 | scanline | is away: class |
| 19:48:09 | andersee | has no class |
| 19:48:21 | file | my classes are done for today |
| 19:50:38 | andersee | my classes were done in 1995 |
| 19:52:31 | file | me'sa bored |
| 19:53:28 | BZFlag | mine weren't done back in '89 |
| 19:53:58 | file | my teacher had a mullet in 1989... |
| 19:55:27 | file | should go |
| 20:17:26 | prpplague | man, i don't why i'm surprise, SCO openserver uses an ftpd that is almost 20 years old |
| 20:51:26 | cbiffle | andersee: ps patch appears to work. |
| 20:51:43 | cbiffle | BZFlag: I have not yet tried putting Inferno back. Instructions on doing so w/o a JTAG dongle would be appreciated. (I'm out of money.) |
| 20:51:59 | cbiffle | BZFlag: And yes, under battery power I can't even dial pulse. Don't even hear a dialtone. |
| 20:55:23 | cbiffle | ' |
| 20:55:42 | cbiffle | BZFlag: The full install footprint, including userland, QtE, and Opie, is under 30M. I suspect I could shrink it considerably but haven't put hte work in yet. |
| 21:05:35 | CosmicPenguin | anyone hear how the Lineo sale went? |
| 21:21:06 | BZFlag | CosmicPenguin: as expected, Canopy was the only bidder. |
| 21:21:48 | CosmicPenguin | BZFlag: ahh.... |
| 21:22:18 | BZFlag | my understanding is the "sale" was for $5M on a credit note. |
| 21:40:55 | prpplague | darn, i guess i could have bid on that with my beer fund.... |
| 22:16:46 | cbiffle | La la laaaa. |
| 22:42:16 | sjm | cbiffle: I've just put a kernel image and .jffs2 image in download/microwin-touchscreen. No need to compile :) |
| 22:42:53 | sjm | waves goodbye |
| 22:43:04 | andersee | cbiffle: wanna email me the patch, and I'll check it out and add it to CVS |
| 23:06:14 | vosque | woo |
| 23:07:24 | prpplague | funn |
| 23:09:03 | vosque | VibroIRC! |
| 23:16:33 | prpplague | cbiffle: hey don't know if you saw my /msg, the PFI has to be present for the DSP phone portion to work properly on the tuxscreen |
