| 00:00:06 | prpplague | i'm out of her |
| 00:00:08 | prpplague | e |
| 00:00:11 | prpplague | later dude |
| 00:00:12 | andersee | latr |
| 01:13:38 | jacques | yawns. |
| 01:41:22 | scanline | is away: foodlike stuff i should eat before the cafeteria closes |
| 02:02:38 | scanline | is back (gone 00:21:16) |
| 02:41:37 | scanline | is away: UT |
| 03:29:51 | Hiraghm | waves near everyone |
| 03:30:03 | Hiraghm | wonders what @ChanServ is |
| 03:30:23 | Hiraghm | what's gnu today? |
| 03:35:33 | Hiraghm | sighs, clearly disappointed |
| 03:53:37 | Hiraghm | sighs, clearly disappointed |
| 03:53:44 | | BZFlag was last seen on #bzflag 25 minutes and 13 seconds ago, saying: thinks MsgShotEnd should die. [Sun Mar 3 03:28:31 2002] |
| 03:53:44 | Hiraghm | ibot seen BZFlag? |
| 03:54:03 | | Russ|werk was last seen on #tuxscreen 1 days, 1 hours, 16 minutes and 57 seconds ago, saying: probably a good idea to shadow the region [Sat Mar 2 02:37:06 2002] |
| 03:54:03 | Hiraghm | ibot seen Russ|werk |
| 03:54:09 | | Russ was last seen on #blob 1 days, 20 hours, 9 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying: I gotta sleep though, good luck [Fri Mar 1 07:44:21 2002] |
| 03:54:09 | Hiraghm | ibot seen Russ? |
| 03:54:20 | Hiraghm | well I'll be a. |
| 03:54:29 | | i haven't a clue, hiraghm |
| 03:54:29 | Hiraghm | ibot, you're messed up, you know that? |
| 03:57:19 | scanline | is back (gone 01:14:42) |
| 03:57:29 | Hiraghm | waves near scanline |
| 03:57:36 | scanline | hi Hiraghm |
| 03:57:44 | Hiraghm | hi scanline |
| 03:57:50 | Hiraghm | what's gnu with you? |
| 03:59:08 | scanline | hmm... learning opengl |
| 03:59:21 | Hiraghm | beams a smile near scanline |
| 03:59:25 | Hiraghm | me too. |
| 03:59:33 | scanline | hehehe |
| 03:59:33 | Hiraghm | I gave you the link to the NeHe site, didn't I? |
| 03:59:38 | | Hiraghm: sorry... |
| 03:59:38 | Hiraghm | ibot NeHe |
| 03:59:43 | | Hiraghm: huh? |
| 03:59:43 | Hiraghm | ibot Neon Helium |
| 03:59:45 | scanline | i've been there |
| 03:59:49 | Hiraghm | ah, mkay. |
| 03:59:54 | scanline | at the moment i'm trying to do text |
| 04:00:10 | scanline | i've seen various OpenGL font libraries, but none of them are quite right for me |
| 04:00:14 | scanline | so i'm writing my own |
| 04:00:29 | scanline | mostly working, too, just need to fix some bugs and polish it |
| 04:01:00 | scanline | http://picogui.org/download/hugefont_gl.png |
| 04:02:11 | Hiraghm | hm. |
| 04:02:44 | Hiraghm | I got sidetracked somewhat from OpenGL when I got into 3d modelling with Lightwave. |
| 04:02:47 | Hiraghm | waves near Morn |
| 04:03:16 | Morn | hey] |
| 04:03:29 | Hiraghm | do you use a widget to draw in OpenGL under picogui, scanline? |
| 04:04:05 | Hiraghm | rather, do you draw into a widget. |
| 04:04:09 | scanline | Hiraghm: that will be possible soon, but not yet |
| 04:04:29 | scanline | Hiraghm: what you're seeing is an opengl video driver that runs everything in picogui through opengl |
| 04:05:12 | scanline | right now i'm concentrating on writing very fast implementations of all picogui's standard primitives using opengl, but soon i'll add some extensions that let apps and themes send opengl commands |
| 04:08:08 | Hiraghm | cool |
| 04:09:43 | Hiraghm | waitaminit |
| 04:09:52 | Hiraghm | there's no OpenGL implementation for the tux, is there? |
| 04:16:12 | scanline | not yet? |
| 04:16:23 | scanline | nah, this will be for desktop computers only i'm thinking |
| 04:16:34 | scanline | the way it's coded now it probably would suck without a 3d accelerator |
| 04:17:04 | scanline | but this will lead to some really kick-ass special effects on the desktop |
| 04:17:22 | scanline | i mean, imagine a GUI that's coded as if it's a game |
| 04:19:17 | Hiraghm | nods |
| 04:19:47 | Hiraghm | when I visited Microware ages and years ago, a guy had a file utility that was basically a game of Galaxian. |
| 04:20:15 | Hiraghm | and of course there's the adventure shell. |
| 04:20:17 | scanline | oh my |
| 04:21:56 | scanline | i just think it's funny that i can now measure picogui's performance in frames per second :) |
| 04:25:32 | Hiraghm | heheh |
| 04:25:47 | Hiraghm | instead of seconds per frame? 8c) |
| 04:25:55 | scanline | :P |
| 04:25:57 | scanline | hehe |
| 04:26:37 | scanline | even for really simple scenes i haven't seen it get above 500fps, so maybe there's a limit in the driver somewhere |
| 04:27:43 | scanline | so what have you been doing with OpenGL? |
| 04:29:35 | Hiraghm | not much lately, like I said I got sidetracked. |
| 04:29:40 | scanline | ahh |
| 04:29:52 | scanline | i find opengl a lot easier to use and more powerful than Direct3D |
| 04:29:56 | Hiraghm | wrote a couple demos, started a 3d paint program, which I hope to get back to soon |
| 04:30:01 | Hiraghm | agrees |
| 04:30:19 | scanline | i did a little direct3d and a few other APIs several years back, and opengl is just so much cooler |
| 04:30:47 | Hiraghm | yeah, I investigated direct3d when it was still v3.0. "Hated it" |
| 04:30:50 | scanline | a small number of very flexible functions vs way too many 28 argument monstrocities |
| 04:34:33 | Hiraghm | heehee |
| 04:34:59 | Hiraghm | the bureaucrats graphics algorythm 8c) |
| 04:35:04 | Hiraghm | waves near TomW |
| 04:35:08 | scanline | hehe |
| 04:35:11 | scanline | waves too |
| 04:35:14 | TomW | andersee: you there |
| 04:35:24 | TomW | waves "hi guys!" |
| 04:35:42 | TomW | buildroot-tux is broken again. |
| 04:35:45 | scanline | TomW: in semaphore? |
| 04:36:35 | TomW | scanline: naw, it won't load the "mtd-snapshot-20020102", checking the site, the snapshot is out of date. |
| 04:36:52 | scanline | ugh... i just ran pgserver, said "hey, it doesn't segfault!", pressed a key, and it segfaulted |
| 04:37:19 | scanline | TomW: no, i mean did you wave "hi guys!" in semaphore.. usually you can't wave text, but that's what semaphore is for |
| 04:37:20 | TomW | I finally found some time to get back to the Tux and decided to grab the latest... ugh! |
| 04:38:11 | TomW | haha! I used to know semaphore flag signally from my old boy scout days, not anymore. I do know CW though. |
| 04:38:49 | TomW | .... .. --. ..- --.- ... |
| 04:39:17 | TomW | s/--.-/-.--/ |
| 04:40:29 | Hiraghm | I can wave a white flag pretty good |
| 04:40:33 | TomW | waves and hollers out "hi guys" ;-) |
| 04:40:39 | scanline | hehe |
| 04:40:48 | TomW | picky picky picky |
| 04:41:13 | TomW | must be a full moon out... |
| 04:41:57 | Hiraghm | Hey, I got the toolchain installed last night |
| 04:42:02 | Hiraghm | haven't been able to test it though. |
| 04:42:12 | Hiraghm | looks like all that's in it is 3 libraries. |
| 04:42:30 | Hiraghm | no headers even. was there supposed to be headers? |
| 04:44:03 | TomW | Hiraghm: well... The buildroot-tux will definately test it for you. |
| 04:44:24 | Hiraghm | heh |
| 04:44:41 | Hiraghm | usr/local/arm |
| 04:45:31 | TomW | Ok, I edited the Makefile to take the latest mtd-snapshot-20020302.tar.bz2 and all compiled okay. Now to see if it runs.. |
| 04:51:00 | scanline | ooo.... antialiasing! |
| 04:53:29 | Hiraghm | antialiasing? |
| 04:53:50 | scanline | antialiased lines and polygons in opengl |
| 04:53:59 | scanline | glEnable(GL_POLYGON_SMOOTH); |
| 04:54:16 | Hiraghm | yes |
| 04:54:21 | scanline | for a program with a lot of really thin polygons it really helps |
| 04:54:32 | Hiraghm | I would think.. yes. |
| 04:57:54 | TomW | Hiraghm: yes: /usr/local/arm, I am using the tools from netwinder. |
| 04:58:05 | Hiraghm | what should be in /usr/local/arm? |
| 05:02:38 | Hiraghm | what subdirs if any? |
| 05:04:39 | TomW | there is a subdir for the version, in my case it is 2.95.3 ... |
| 05:05:16 | TomW | under that is: arm-linux/ bin/ include/ info/ lib/ man/ share/ test-if-write |
| 05:05:35 | Hiraghm | hm... don't have most of that. |
| 05:06:08 | Hiraghm | figured that was the case, the install went too fast and easy |
| 05:06:22 | TomW | then, my path has /usr/local/arm/2.95.3/bin in it |
| 05:06:42 | TomW | You need to get both a bintools and a gcc rpm. |
| 05:14:25 | Hiraghm | welp, I need to head out |
| 05:14:27 | Hiraghm | waves near everyone |
| 06:37:48 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 6 hours, 37 minutes and 36 seconds ago, saying: latr [Sun Mar 3 00:00:12 2002] |
| 06:37:48 | TomW | ibot: seen andersee |
| 07:18:47 | scanline | falls in love with GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR |
| 07:41:32 | jeffrey_ | Hi All: "jflash tuxscreen-blob" , need support 12V ? or anyway that i can check flash is unlock without use P/m command? |
| 07:42:42 | Russ | to unlock the flash, you need 12V |
| 07:42:53 | Russ | even if you are using jtag |
| 07:43:21 | Russ | if you are just writing to unlocked flash, you don't need 12V |
| 07:45:00 | jeffrey_ | Russ: i just wnat to use jtag to flash blob, before type flash , i need support it 12v? |
| 07:47:35 | Russ | is the flash you want to write to locked? |
| 07:48:05 | jeffrey_ | Russ: can use jflash to unlock FLASH without use inferno's 'P/u 0' ? |
| 07:48:49 | jeffrey_ | no, i want to unlock it , then flash blob |
| 07:49:09 | Russ | jflash can unlock flash sectors |
| 07:49:15 | Russ | you'll need 12V to do that |
| 07:53:09 | jeffrey_ | i know can use flash_locks is lock, but do't know how use jflash to unlock? even suppoet 12v |
| 07:53:33 | Russ | use flash_locks |
| 07:54:18 | Russ | there's stuff on the wiki explaining how to apply 12V to the flash memory |
| 07:54:29 | jeffrey_ | advance? ;P |
| 07:54:38 | Russ | what? |
| 07:55:55 | jeffrey_ | use flash_locks to unlock FLASH? (i had support 12v for tux) |
| 07:56:26 | Russ | flash_locks lets you lock and unlock flash sectors via jtag |
| 07:56:46 | Russ | to lock and unlock flash sectors, 12V needs to be applied to the flash memory |
| 07:59:44 | jeffrey_ | u mean 1th use flash_locks is lock, then 2th use flash_locks. it will be active role with unlock ?without give any options? |
| 08:02:03 | jeffrey_ | like "flash_lock -lock" or "flash_lock -unlock". ;) |
| 08:02:11 | Russ | no, its a curses interface |
| 08:03:35 | jeffrey_ | okay , i trying now, thx RUSS |
| 09:14:55 | scanline | yay... FreeType is nifty |
| 09:15:22 | scanline | and SDL |
| 09:15:24 | scanline | and OpenGL |
| 17:02:50 | prpplague | morning all |
| 17:18:29 | prpplague | ctr: morning |
| 17:18:33 | ctr | hey prpplague |
| 18:29:13 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 18 hours, 29 minutes and 1 seconds ago, saying: latr [Sun Mar 3 00:00:12 2002] |
| 18:29:13 | TomW | ibot: seen andersee |
| 18:54:26 | prpplague | TomW: you with cyberiansoftware? |
| 18:54:36 | TomW | yes |
| 18:55:36 | prpplague | TomW: all the designs there are free for use? |
| 18:56:30 | andersee | hey TomW, whats up? |
| 18:56:40 | TomW | For the most part. They are meant to be used as guides for others to examine and learn from. |
| 18:57:27 | TomW | andersee: I am looking at taking gerg's last uClinux distro and pulling the uClibc stuff out, then patch it into the buildroot-tux sources. |
| 18:57:46 | TomW | I need cfgread() so I can compile inetd. |
| 18:57:50 | andersee | And the reason for doing that would be... |
| 18:58:03 | prpplague | TomW: can anyone donate designs? |
| 18:58:34 | andersee | cfgread() is a pretty simple bit of non-C lib stuff, that can easily (and should be) put into a seperate library... |
| 18:58:53 | TomW | prpplague: yes, as long as it is your own design. I don't want to get caught up is someone reverse engineering some hardware and posting it on my site. |
| 19:00:13 | TomW | andersee: I know that you are working on making uClibc threaded. So, I felt that the latest cvs from you was on the bleeding edge and would make sense to drop back to what Gerg has. He usually packages a stable release. |
| 19:00:38 | prpplague | TomW: don't blame ya there |
| 19:01:52 | TomW | andersee: I need to freeze a flavor of buildroot-tux so that I can focus on getting some work produced. I have a customer who has a need for a new hardware platform and the strongArm is what I am proposing to him. |
| 19:03:13 | TomW | andersee: All I would need from you is your opinion about how difficult it would be to put the uClinux uClibc into the buildroot sources? AYMK, I am comfortable with gcc + makefiles. |
| 19:04:41 | andersee | TomW: I actually will be making a release this week. I've been doing a lot of testing and things are actually being pretty stable at the moment. |
| 19:05:10 | TomW | andersee: cfgread will be in it? |
| 19:05:57 | andersee | TomW: Nope. There is no such C library function. It is a uClinux special, and they shouid move it into its own library rather than patching it into uClibc. |
| 19:06:25 | TomW | andersee: in the meantime, I suspect that I can take the config.c source from the uClinux uClibc and patch it into the current buildroot-tux uClibc? |
| 19:06:50 | andersee | If you want, sure. It is a totally standalone bit of code |
| 19:07:15 | TomW | andersee: AHH! Okay, maybe I should grab a "normal" inetd source and attempt at building it under the arm-gcc. |
| 19:08:45 | TomW | andersee: It is that I have worked with the uClinux sources and am comfortable with them. I also suspect that a lot of extraneous stuff had been stripped out of those applications so that the result would be to have much smaller code size than if I used the full sources. |
| 19:08:46 | andersee | TomW: FYI, the stdio implementation in uClibc CVS is getting replaced tomorrow... The new one is 100% Posix/ISO C89/ISO C99 compliant, and even provides all the GNU extenssions, and supports wide-char. It has been under development for like 2 months, with lots of testing... |
| 19:09:38 | andersee | TomW: I've looked over a lot of the uClinux sources as well. Some of it isn't too bad. Some of it is complete crap. Caveat emptor... |
| 19:10:09 | andersee | And by uClinux sources, I refer to the userspace code... |
| 19:10:25 | TomW | andersee: Okay, I will move on to other aspects of my project in the meantime and keep an eye on the uClibc releases then. I have a lot of work to do, so it is not a big deal. It sounds as if you are close to making some major releases with uClibc soon. |
| 19:12:04 | TomW | andersee: Agreed. I really don't like using sash, I much rather prefer a bash shell. But, with the StrongARM processor I can have my wish, with the DragonBall I have to make tradeoffs all the time. :-( |
| 19:12:49 | TomW | andersee: Tnx Erik! |
| 19:12:57 | andersee | likes strongArm a lot. |
| 19:13:28 | andersee | No problem. Should be ready for a release in the next couple of days. Wednesday at the latest is my plan... |
| 19:13:32 | prpplague | TomW: love the noticenoticenotice on the subscribe email for cyberiansoftware |
| 19:13:53 | prpplague | TomW: more list admins should do that |
| 19:13:55 | TomW | prpplague: Do you have design you want to publish, or did you just want to use peices of some of my/Dani's stuff in your commercial design? |
| 19:14:03 | Russ | hey prpplague |
| 19:14:23 | prpplague | TomW: i'm preparing to do a SA design for learning |
| 19:14:36 | prpplague | Russ: hey, how goes it today |
| 19:14:38 | file | crys |
| 19:15:20 | prpplague | TomW: sorry, ARM design it may not nessarily be SA |
| 19:15:52 | TomW | prpplague: Cool! That is exactly why I posted my designs. To promote the use of linux in embedded systems. This way people can have a working system to refer to, working code to examine, and be able to see how the whole system comes together. |
| 19:16:35 | TomW | prpplague: I was looking to use the Cirrus 7312 in an ARM design. That was before I got my hands on a Tux. |
| 19:17:06 | Russ | prpplague: btw, you should look at the backlight stuff I've been working on, been meaning to finish it up |
| 19:17:18 | Russ | just have to address some issues for the hh.org people |
| 19:18:20 | prpplague | Russ: ok, let me know where i can pull it down from |
| 19:18:40 | prpplague | TomW: this new sharp arm core looks very nice for learning |
| 19:18:44 | Russ | http://russ.dhs.org/files/tuxpatches |
| 19:18:57 | Russ | its part of the tuxpatches as well |
| 19:19:41 | prpplague | bookmarks |
| 19:21:17 | prpplague | TomW: http://www.linuxdevices.com/products/PD5343937505.html |
| 19:24:05 | TomW | prpplague: Sounds more like a Japanese strikeoff of the StrongARM processor, doesn't it? |
| 19:24:55 | prpplague | TomW: ya pretty much |
| 19:25:05 | TomW | prpplague: Aside from the AC97 codec, it specs out like a StrongARM. Plus, they added a battery monitor to the internal silicon. |
| 19:26:11 | prpplague | TomW: ya, but from what i can tell from the tech ref and talking to sharp, the integration of components is a little easier |
| 19:26:43 | TomW | prpplague: <sigh> I will have to do a BGA design sooner or later. The problem I have is that I don't have any way to mount the darned thing to a PCB! I had called around to locate some PCB assembly house to do that for me, but I shudder to think about what it would cost! |
| 19:27:28 | prpplague | TomW: i know the feeling |
| 19:27:49 | TomW | prpplague: From my experience, you need to do, usually, two protos before you have a final design, sometimes it takes three protos. |
| 19:28:20 | TomW | If they clip you $1K per proto to mount the BGA devices, it starts to really add up. |
| 19:30:58 | prpplague | TomW: ya that can eat up your development budget real quick |
| 19:31:51 | prpplague | afternoon BZFlag |
| 19:32:02 | TomW | prpplague: That is why I keep looking at the Cirrus CLPS7312. It is a TQFP package and handles SDRAM. It doesn't have the MIPS like the StrongARM, but with the lower developemnt costs for me, and manufacturing costs, it makes more sense. The end-customer is a small manufacturer, about 300 units per year, so BGA would be hideously expensive for him to manufacture. |
| 19:33:09 | prpplague | TomW: good point |
| 19:33:38 | prpplague | TomW: what is the CLPS7312 like with integrating the pcmcia and lcd? |
| 19:34:19 | TomW | prpplague: Maybe someone out there (PCB assembly house) has addressed the needs of independant developers to mount BGA devices onto protos, but I have yet to find these people. |
| 19:36:04 | TomW | prpplague: That is a problem: LCD, they only handle a single plane display (STN), and the resolution is not that high (640x480). They have another chip, the CLPS7500FE that handles DSTN, but that chip is only about 50 MIPS and is "long in the tooth". |
| 19:38:25 | TomW | prpplague: <sigh> That is why I like the TuxScreen so much, I get to play with some really advanced technology and it doesn't break my bank account! |
| 19:39:09 | prpplague | lol, yep, thanks BZFlag |
| 19:41:09 | prpplague | TomW: what about http://www.sharpsma.com/sma/products/products.htm |
| 19:41:19 | BZFlag | heh, no problem. just passing on the experience. ;-) |
| 19:48:02 | TomW | prpplague: Thier LH79520 looks interesting... |
| 19:51:25 | TomW | prpplague: Comparing the LH79520 with the CLPS7312, the Cirrus part still looks to be the better choice. |
| 19:51:59 | prpplague | TomW: just for my own education, why? |
| 19:52:39 | TomW | prpplague: Plus, the Cirrus Rep "loaned" me a CLPS7212 Evaluation Board. It is kind of on "permanent" loan.. |
| 19:52:49 | prpplague | lol |
| 19:53:13 | prpplague | guess thats why i'm learning towards sharp, our sharp rep will be here next week |
| 19:53:29 | prpplague | TomW: maybe you need to have your Cirrus Rep give me a call |
| 19:54:13 | TomW | prpplague: I bitched at the cost of the CLPS7312 eval board and this was his solution: "loan" me the older (discontinued) CLPS7212 system. The only difference between the chips is that the 7312 has an integrated Touch Screen controller and it handles SDRAM. |
| 19:55:40 | TomW | prpplague: I purchased a CLPS7500FE Evaluation board two years ago, it was $1000 for that one. They wanted something close to $2500 for the 7312 system! |
| 19:56:24 | prpplague | TomW: ya Hitachi is the same way about their H8 series, they want something like 6k for a board |
| 19:57:02 | prpplague | TomW: i've got a couple of ceiva's with the 7212, maybe i need to have a closer look at them |
| 19:58:03 | prpplague | brb, need a cup of joe |
| 19:58:46 | TomW | prpplague: I think that Motorola kicked this frenzy of EVB prices. They had a tiny M68332 EVB for only $200 at one time. What they discovered was that manufacturers were purchasing the EVB an plugging the board into their hardware. Since Motorola was selling the EVB below cost, it was killing them to supply thousands of these things to manufacturers!!! |
| 20:00:07 | TomW | prpplague: Motorola then jacked to cost of the EVB up to $1000, they figured that they could make money on the boards. It stopped the manufacturers cold. |
| 20:00:36 | TomW | prpplague: Tea is better. |
| 20:01:42 | prpplague | TomW: i got some green tea from one of our tawainesse contractors, guess i could try some later today |
| 20:02:49 | TomW | prpplague: If you want a "bold" tea that will give you a caffine 'kick', then try Earl Grey. |
| 20:03:14 | TomW | prpplague: it is a Black Tea. |
| 20:03:17 | prpplague | TomW: ya i got Earl Grey at home |
| 20:03:32 | prpplague | TomW: can't bring to the office because every steals it |
| 20:03:56 | TomW | prpplague: Right now, I am sipping on some Darjeeling. |
| 20:04:15 | prpplague | TomW: darejeeling tastes too fruity for me |
| 20:04:53 | TomW | prpplague: LOL, maybe you should bring two boxes to the office. One for the coffee room, and one you hide in your desk? |
| 20:06:23 | prpplague | lol, maybe |
| 20:06:47 | TomW | I did that once. I had a small Windex bottle that I kept around to clean the screen on the monitor. People kept swiping the thing, so, one day I went to the supermarket and purchased 15 of them, came back to the office and gave everyone their own! |
| 20:07:28 | TomW | prpplague: It was a $10 tantrum. |
| 20:08:40 | TomW | prpplague: So, what is it that you are thinking of designing with the ARM stuff? |
| 20:12:14 | prpplague | TomW: the company i work for has a lot of in field techs, i'd like to design a portable device for configuring router, network diags, as well as simple pim stuff like timeclock and expense receipts |
| 20:12:52 | prpplague | TomW: the main reason we don;t use standard pda stuff is we need something with 640x480 display |
| 20:13:32 | prpplague | TomW: it would probably be easier to get someone to design it for us, but this way we can learn about designing other products for our company |
| 20:14:55 | prpplague | TomW: the arm board you are designing for your customer, do they need a mmu? if not you could look into the arm+net cpus |
| 20:15:35 | TomW | Why not yank the CPU PCB out of the TuxScreen and use that as a foundation to build a concept system? You could take the back off the LCD display, remove the swivel base, mount the CPU card to the back of the LCD. Then all you would need to do is build a new back half of the LCD enclosure to hold batteries? |
| 20:16:34 | TomW | prpplague: No, they don't "need" an MMU, I need it. I am tired of the memory limitations imposed by not having an MMU. |
| 20:16:48 | prpplague | TomW: ahh, i understand |
| 20:17:18 | TomW | prpplague: Besides, if I design a really cool board for them, I can get a board to use for my own projects at their cost. |
| 20:17:28 | prpplague | TomW: ya i've already got a pretty good understanding of the software and the concept prototype was based on the ELF board from InHand Electronics |
| 20:17:58 | prpplague | TomW: http://www.inhandelectronics.com/html/elf.html |
| 20:18:55 | TomW | prpplague: Ah, then it comes down to actually doing a prototype. One thing I really like about ARM is the low power consumption, even running flat out the processor is still under 100ma. |
| 20:19:44 | prpplague | TomW: ya battery life is a big issue for us, after all if you make money by keeping to tech moving all day, when will they have time to charge the thing? |
| 20:20:20 | TomW | prpplague: I have seen a plastic enclosure that was built from that technology that they use a series of lasers to create the part from a liquid bath. |
| 20:21:00 | prpplague | TomW: liquid polymer layering |
| 20:21:10 | prpplague | ? |
| 20:22:24 | TomW | prpplague: Thank you, I couldn't remember the name of the process. The enclosure looked really nice, it was about 3.5 inches X 6 inches X 1 inch. The proto cost him about $600 to have it made. |
| 20:23:02 | TomW | That is a lot cheaper than to have an aluminum mold machined to make a proto. |
| 20:23:49 | prpplague | TomW: if you do decide to build an arm board, drop me an email, maybe i can get in on some development |
| 20:24:18 | prpplague | TomW: ya i was thinking about machining a block of teflon |
| 20:24:32 | TomW | prpplague: I would like to build it as a General Purpose core, similar to the LART. |
| 20:25:02 | prpplague | TomW: agreed, with a high speed bus between cards? |
| 20:25:40 | prpplague | let me check my emails, seems like erikm sent me an email about a new lart style project |
| 20:26:24 | TomW | prpplague: I could use something off the shelf, but they don't want that. The end-customer wants to "own" the hardware that they manufacture. The owner is in his Fifties and I suspect that he is building up the company to make it attractive for someone to purchase it from him. |
| 20:27:42 | prpplague | TomW: ahh |
| 20:28:18 | prpplague | TomW: ya the TNG lart is the Ballon2 board, |
| 20:30:32 | TomW | But, it doesn't mean that you and I couldn't collaborate on a design. Both of us would then "own" it. The proof of concept demo to my customer should happen in a few months. I need to have the nano-X running as I may be able to sell him on the concept of a color LCD on his product. Right now, his main product line has an EL display. He has a proto unit with a color LCD on it, but he has to use a SingleBoard computer mounted inside his un |
| 20:30:32 | TomW | it to drive the display. |
| 20:32:13 | TomW | prpplague: If I can sell him on the LCD... |
| 20:33:31 | prpplague | TomW: ya that color lcd can be a hard sell sometimes |
| 20:33:44 | TomW | prpplague: There could be a lot of continuing work for me should he go for this: ARM cpu to replace his 80C188 cpu board, LCD for his main display, Linux to run network connections... |
| 20:34:05 | TomW | rubs hands together |
| 20:34:45 | TomW | prpplague: Aren |
| 20:35:30 | prpplague | TomW: don't just love the fact that ppl pay you to learn and play with this stuff! |
| 20:35:46 | TomW | prpplague: Aren't you actually designing a Web Tablet? Maybe if you wait a bit, then Micro$oft will come out with theirs and you could subvert it to your own use by installing linux on it? <heehee> |
| 20:36:09 | TomW | prpplague: All this and they give me money too! |
| 20:37:29 | prpplague | TomW: lol, ya we are currently using the aquapad for both our customers and for our techs |
| 20:37:51 | prpplague | TomW: but even though its a crusoe processor, its still power hungry |
| 20:38:10 | TomW | prpplague: Even better yet: I admin 5 linux boxes for another guy. This gets me a $532 monthly salary, I work 3 days a month, and he provides me free medical coverage. And, he has a killer medical plan! |
| 20:38:59 | prpplague | TomW: can't bet that |
| 20:40:22 | TomW | prpplague: Isnt that sharp stuff 1.8volt? |
| 20:41:29 | prpplague | TomW: ya the core is 1.8 |
| 20:41:45 | prpplague | TomW: the i/o is 3.3 |
| 20:41:58 | TomW | prpplague: That is a pretty compelling reason to use it, the 7312 is a 2.5volt core. |
| 20:43:28 | prpplague | TomW: this is what catches my eye - The LH7A400 provides glue-less interface to SRAM/SDRAM/Flash devices, MMC, PCMCIA/CF and Smart Cards |
| 20:43:36 | TomW | prpplague: Did you see that 640x480 color LCD that http://www.earthlcd.com has for sale at $100? It has a touch screen and is surplus. |
| 20:43:53 | prpplague | TomW: lol, i've got 2 coming in monday |
| 20:44:43 | prpplague | TomW: i've been trying to talk to those guys about the marmalade board, but they see kinda dis-orginized |
| 20:45:12 | TomW | prpplague: I got samples from OMRON for the twenty pin FPC connectors, that came in this week. Now, I need to find someplace to purchase the FPC cable.. |
| 20:45:58 | TomW | prpplague: earth computer == disorganized? Naw, Randy is on top of things over there, NOT. |
| 20:47:37 | prpplague | TomW: lol, i see you've dealt with them before |
| 20:49:56 | prpplague | TomW: http://www.quadrangleproducts.com/ |
| 20:50:52 | prpplague | TomW: they seem knowledgable and price was right last time i ordered some cables (about 8 months ago) |
| 20:51:10 | TomW | prpplague: yes, he has a ton(!) of 68328 processors that he purchased at 50 cents per. I was looking into using it to make an LCD controller for him that ran uClinux. The design got so clunky that I lost interest in doing it. The 68328 had some major "anomolies" in its' design. The 68EZ328 was a far superior replacement. |
| 20:52:00 | prpplague | is not familiar with the 68 series processors |
| 20:52:19 | prpplague | TomW: got a url on the 68ez328? |
| 20:55:40 | TomW | prpplague: You don't want to use it, it is only capable of 2 MIPS. The MC68VZ328 is only 5 MIPS. I did the EZ328LCD using a 68EZ328 processor. It was "interesting" to write an app that would paint the LCD screen at any reasonable rate. A lot of optimizing went into the graphics routines and eventually I had to go to using two framebuffers. One to display, the other to draw on, then flip the "pages". It made it look like the processor was |
| 20:55:40 | TomW | fast. |
| 20:57:53 | prpplague | TomW: the other project we are looking to do is a printer server with 1 parallel and two serial ports connectioned via ethernet |
| 20:58:52 | TomW | prpplague: If anything, you might consider the Motorola Coldfire processors. More MIPS & features. |
| 20:59:26 | prpplague | TomW: ya thats where we are headed right now |
| 21:00:19 | prpplague | TomW: that company quadrangleproducts can help you out on the fpc cables |
| 21:00:44 | TomW | prpplague: Or, you may consider an ARM7TDMI processor. I would not use a 68K for very much. I did the projects with the 68EZ328 just to get some experience with uClinux and the 68K processors. It gave me some really good insight into what 2 MIPS is capable of.. |
| 21:01:38 | prpplague | TomW: i've got a print server from milan thats arm based, they might be interested in letting us port linux onto it |
| 21:01:52 | TomW | prpplague: Does quadrangle give samples? |
| 21:02:11 | prpplague | TomW: i don't know, i just ordered a couple of lcd kits |
| 21:03:38 | TomW | prpplague: Hey! They are over in New Jersey. I live in Pennsylvania near the NJ state line. Cool! |
| 21:06:38 | prpplague | TomW: that way you can go harras them when they send you the wrong part! |
| 21:06:58 | TomW | prpplague: Which cable kit did you order? I don't see anything there listed for Panasonic displays. |
| 21:10:04 | prpplague | TomW: i order some for the sharp display that the tuxscreen uses |
| 21:13:56 | TomW | prpplague: OK, they are selling the IPC cable assemblies there. I don't see anything for FPC that they offer. I think I saw a site that was selling various lengths / conductor count of FPC cables. I cannot find it again, the 'net is too big. :-( |
| 21:16:14 | prpplague | been there, done that |
| 21:25:54 | TomW | prpplague: DigiKey has FPC cables, but they only have 1mm cables, no 0.5mm stuff. |
| 21:26:04 | prpplague | doh |
| 21:27:16 | TomW | prpplague: WHOOPS! Page 38 of the latest DigiKey catalogue: 0.5mm FPC cable in various lengths, and they have the 20 conductor stuff. |
| 21:28:08 | TomW | prpplague: have you seen the last Digikey catalog? Thier catalogues are starting to look more like a Sears catalogue! |
| 21:32:07 | prpplague | TomW: negative, i've not seen the catalog in awhile |
| 21:32:25 | prpplague | TomW: i order a lot from jameco, even though they are overpriced |
| 21:33:35 | prpplague | dl's digikey catalog |
| 21:33:54 | TomW | prpplague: Thier latest catalogue is 900 pages! |
| 21:34:09 | prpplague | wow |
| 21:34:30 | prpplague | last time i used them it was only around 300 |
| 21:35:07 | TomW | prpplague: that is Mouser, Mouser's last catalog is only 500 pages. |
| 21:35:40 | prpplague | TomW: ahh |
| 21:37:05 | TomW | prpplague: I do most of my designs from components selected from the DigiKey catalog. If it ain't in the catalog, I don't use it. Too much trouble trying to pry small quantities out of some of the other vendors, they only want to sell you multiples of 1000 pieces! |
| 21:38:28 | prpplague | TomW: i can understand that |
| 21:44:17 | prpplague | TomW: you've done some lcd work, how long can the lcd data cable be from the driver/controler ? |
| 21:45:19 | prpplague | Tangent: howdy there |
| 21:45:27 | prpplague | Tangent: hows life in the UK today? |
| 21:45:29 | Tangent | prpplague : Evening |
| 21:45:42 | Tangent | prpplague : You mean there's life here?... |
| 21:45:49 | Tangent | goes to look under some rocks |
| 21:46:01 | prpplague | Tangent: lol, depends on who you talk to |
| 21:46:14 | Tangent | prpplague : Mostly just ibot ;) |
| 21:46:31 | Tangent | I can change his opinion when he disagrees ;) |
| 21:46:41 | prpplague | lol |
| 21:47:05 | Tangent | I'm bored |
| 21:47:13 | Tangent | inspire me |
| 21:47:26 | TomW | prpplague: I keep it as short as possible, the frequency at which those signals are running at can cause significant RFI if your cable is too long. Also, you have to worry about the capacitance loading of the cable distorting the signals. |
| 21:47:32 | prpplague | Tangent: i planning on attending the UKUUG conference in july, maybe you can show me the best pubs in the area |
| 21:47:48 | Tangent | prpplague : Is that the one in bristol ? |
| 21:47:53 | prpplague | Tangent: ya |
| 21:48:07 | prpplague | TomW: 12" on the test bench too long? |
| 21:48:20 | Tangent | prpplague : Mostly I just drank in the Bay Horse with people from work... nothing special... |
| 21:48:46 | Tangent | prpplague : Cosie's bar has character... and sells propper Budvar budweiser |
| 21:48:56 | prpplague | Tangent: lol |
| 21:49:24 | prpplague | Tangent: i'm looking to try as many different brews as i can while i'm there |
| 21:49:49 | prpplague | Tangent: i've got a great fltk app to keep track of the beers i've tried! |
| 21:50:03 | TomW | prpplague: I wouldn't think so, look at the TuxScreen that has about 12" of cabling from the mainboard up to the connectror on the display. |
| 21:50:32 | prpplague | TomW: thats what i thought, but wasn't sure |
| 21:52:09 | Tangent | prpplague : Heh.. neat :) |
| 21:53:31 | prpplague | Tangent: i thought about submiting a paper to UKUUG - "PDA's : how not to spill beer on them" |
| 21:54:08 | Tangent | prpplague : Important lesson number 1... not dropping your PDA in the pint... this will wreck your PDA, and more importantly your pint |
| 21:55:29 | prpplague | lol |
| 21:56:26 | prpplague | Tangent: lesson number 2... don't try to use your PDA while drinking from a yard glass |
| 21:56:56 | Tangent | prpplague : Someone still needs to create an effective one-handed pda... would be really nice |
| 21:57:08 | Tangent | prpplague : Something like a squeezable iPAQ... |
| 21:57:54 | prpplague | Tangent: a squeezable ipaq, hmmm..., that sounds like my wife, but with less memory |
| 21:58:34 | Tangent | Haha :) |
| 21:59:11 | prpplague | argh, i need to working on this data collection app, i couldn't be less interested in doing so |
| 22:10:18 | sjm | hi all |
| 22:11:58 | prpplague | sjm: howdy |
| 22:12:00 | | I haven't seen 'all', TomW |
| 22:12:00 | TomW | ibot: seen all? |
| 22:12:28 | TomW | waves to sjm |
| 22:12:59 | prpplague | sjm: how goes your access of SA registers? |
| 22:13:02 | sjm | prpplague: You pulled the IDC header off th tux and replaced with centronics? |
| 22:13:23 | sjm | prpplague: Works very nicely thank you. I can flash a LED :) |
| 22:13:33 | prpplague | sjm: not yet, i've just been thowing around ideas |
| 22:13:55 | prpplague | sjm: i did remove the ts connector and replace it with a 4 pin header |
| 22:14:19 | prpplague | sjm: makes it a little easier to test different lcd/ts combo's |
| 22:23:12 | prpplague | TomW: do you see any problems using a 36-pin centronics connector for test bench lcd connection? |
| 22:24:21 | TomW | prpplague: ... except it is a huge connector, why not use a 34 / 40 pin IDC connector? |
| 22:26:59 | prpplague | TomW: lol, 34/40 would be probably be better, i just have a hugh collection of new centronics connectors |
| 22:28:51 | TomW | prpplague: "all dressed up and nowhere to go", eh? |
| 22:30:20 | prpplague | TomW: yep |
| 22:32:42 | TomW | prpplague: Now I know why you want to build a print server, ... |
| 22:36:18 | prpplague | TomW: lol |
| 22:36:53 | prpplague | TomW: main reason for a print server, one that doesn't require a "winblows app" to configure |
| 22:50:23 | TomW | is away: food ... need ... food ...<gasp> |
| 22:51:49 | prpplague | food? who needs food when you have coffee and beer? |
| 22:52:54 | Tangent | Beer & Food... Mmmm.. sleep |
| 22:53:32 | Tangent | That's why lunchtime drinking is such a good idea ;) |
| 22:55:43 | prpplague | lol |
| 23:07:09 | prpplague | well folks, i've had all the fun i can stand for today, i'm headed home |
| 23:07:37 | prpplague | Tangent: i think i've got a couple of bottles of newcastle brown ale in the fridge |
