| 00:18:32 | CosmicPenguin | file: sorry, I got very distracted on somethign else |
| 00:18:37 | file | aye. |
| 00:18:41 | CosmicPenguin | Anyone here a mySQL expert? |
| 00:18:47 | file | no |
| 00:23:31 | CosmicPenguin | I could have sworn there was a way to create a table from a file on disk, but I guess not |
| 00:29:37 | CosmicPenguin | Crazy - The boxing commission actually denied Mike Tyson a licence to fight |
| 00:56:37 | cpenguin_work | is away: I've got nothing witty to say |
| 02:26:13 | file | hi all |
| 02:27:08 | jacques | hi |
| 02:27:23 | file | waddup? |
| 02:29:44 | jacques | not a lot |
| 02:40:07 | Sammy | morning |
| 02:45:00 | jacques | hi |
| 05:11:05 | | privet, Hiraghm |
| 05:11:05 | Hiraghm | Hi |
| 06:15:43 | jacques | bored now |
| 10:08:34 | holden | I don't suppose anyone here's got the 3c589-cs driver working on ARM have they? |
| 10:42:11 | Sammy | bye |
| 11:36:55 | eran | sup |
| 11:39:59 | eran | . |
| 11:45:05 | eran | you`re all dead? :\ |
| 11:46:34 | holden | eran: No, undead. |
| 11:46:57 | eran | I was wondering.. do you own a TuxScreen phone? |
| 11:47:06 | holden | eran: Yes |
| 11:47:16 | eran | Are you running Linux on it? |
| 11:47:19 | | i guess Inferno is A Small Operating System for Distributed Solutions and Embedded Devices At http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ |
| 11:47:19 | eran | Or Inferno? |
| 11:47:58 | holden | eran: Yes. I played with Inferno for about an hour before I got bored with it. |
| 11:48:20 | eran | And hows Linux working on it? Caller ID and all these stuff works well? |
| 11:49:12 | holden | eran: I don't know, there's a daemon that's supposed to do that sort of thing, but I haven't played with it much. |
| 11:49:58 | holden | eran: The phone works as an ordinary phone anyway without any OS support (though it doesn't seem to do touch tone, just crappy old pulse dialing). |
| 11:50:30 | eran | Ok.. |
| 11:50:32 | eran | thank you.. |
| 13:02:46 | scanline | is away: ZzZzZzzzzzzZzz |
| 15:09:13 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 15:09:31 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 15:09:53 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 15:29:29 | cpenguin_work | is back (gone 14:32:50) |
| 15:29:49 | CosmicPenguin | holden: morning |
| 15:30:05 | holden | CosmicPenguin: Hi Jordan |
| 15:36:27 | CosmicPenguin | holden: I love your IPC idea.... |
| 15:38:21 | CosmicPenguin | I also like the Atoms idea.... |
| 15:38:24 | holden | CosmicPenguin: Greg has a point about window properties. I'm just reading the Xlib manuals trying to figure out a distilled set of calls which are fairly close the original without all the XAtom complexity. |
| 15:38:28 | CosmicPenguin | needs to read his mail faster |
| 15:38:49 | CosmicPenguin | The Atoms really are not *that* complex |
| 15:39:58 | holden | CosmicPenguin: Everything is typed so the server can do automatic conversion between different endian systems. I don't think we're ever going to support different endian client and server though. |
| 15:40:32 | CosmicPenguin | holden: Nope.... |
| 15:40:53 | CosmicPenguin | holden: But atoms won't resolve the IPC problem |
| 15:42:09 | holden | CosmicPenguin: You can do the same thing as my tags idea by applying named properties to the root window with the window ID somehow encoded in the value of the property. |
| 15:42:48 | CosmicPenguin | holden: does the window Id matter that much? I would think that IPC would be specific to the process, not to the window |
| 15:45:02 | holden | CosmicPenguin: Think of multiple windows as being like multiple ports in TCP or UDP. A process might support several different services that can be accessed using different (possibly invisible) windows. |
| 15:51:47 | CosmicPenguin | holden: hmmm.... |
| 15:53:43 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a bit more complexity in the sever though. Is it worth it? |
| 15:56:32 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 3 days, 5 hours, 27 minutes and 9 seconds ago, saying: night [Sun Jan 27 10:29:23 2002] |
| 15:56:32 | prpplague | ibot: seen andersee |
| 15:57:09 | CosmicPenguin | Like all kernel mailing list threads, the "patch penguin" thread has finally degraded to name calling |
| 15:57:46 | holden | CosmicPenguin: I don't think full blown X style window properties are worth it, but a cut down version would be. All it needs is a way to attach and detach a number of name/value pairs to a window and another way to retrieve the value using a name and a window ID. The only difference really between the tag method I was talking about yesterday and the window property method is that each window has its own list of tags (AKA properties) instead of a single |
| 15:58:34 | holden | CosmicPenguin: The global list now becomes the one which is attached to the root window (since every client knows the root window ID). |
| 15:59:13 | CosmicPenguin | holden: ok... how about IPC messages then? |
| 16:00:09 | holden | CosmicPenguin: Already there for the selection (clipboard) support: GrRequestClientData() and GrSendClientData() |
| 16:00:30 | CosmicPenguin | I'm still not sure about the window ids - but it would only take up 4 more bytes per line, so I guess its ok |
| 16:01:10 | holden | CosmicPenguin: What's your alternative? |
| 16:01:34 | CosmicPenguin | nothing |
| 16:01:39 | CosmicPenguin | I was thinking of something else |
| 16:02:34 | CosmicPenguin | I was trying to put myself in the shoes of a developer |
| 16:05:56 | CosmicPenguin | I like the idea of registering each client, and assigning a GR_IPC_ID to each one, indexed by a unique name |
| 16:06:21 | CosmicPenguin | Of course, it forces us to add another event, and 3 more API calls |
| 16:06:57 | CosmicPenguin | At some point, we will need to show extraordinary need to put this in the server - we're already pushing 170k, and my latest patch to greg added at least 20k |
| 16:07:14 | CosmicPenguin | bbl - meeting |
| 16:07:33 | CosmicPenguin | is away: meeting time |
| 16:16:17 | CosmicPenguin | is back (gone 00:08:43) |
| 16:16:24 | CosmicPenguin | Jason is still on the phone |
| 16:17:21 | CosmicPenguin | holden: See how productive this IRC stuff is? If we could get 10 nano-X developers together in a room like this, we would change the world |
| 16:19:40 | holden | CosmicPenguin: I don't see how giving each client an IPC ID would be better than using window IDs- what if you want a client to have several IPC services? Also, the GrSendClientData() would need to be modified to cope with using a client ID instead of a window ID, and when the event came in what window would it be addressed to? |
| 16:20:27 | CosmicPenguin | The clients can always multiplex their own data - I hate the idea of forcing an IPC writer to have to deal in terms of windows |
| 16:20:40 | CosmicPenguin | GrSendClientData() should stand as it is |
| 16:22:14 | CosmicPenguin | Consider a PIM suite that you are syncronizing |
| 16:23:44 | CosmicPenguin | Ah, I'll bet everyone else is tiring of this... |
| 16:23:53 | CosmicPenguin | holden: joing #microwindows |
| 16:24:13 | holden | CosmicPenguin: Just think of the windows as "event receptors". You want to be able to receive packets sent to the resource with the string "fred", so you create an invisible window, create a root window property called fred with the window ID in it, and select for CLIENT_DATA events. |
| 18:49:55 | AlHazWork | so has anyone here modified the keyboard so it's wired directly to the tux? |
| 18:50:04 | AlHazWork | i heard someone had done that, I was wondering how much more reliable it is |
| 18:50:24 | AlHazWork | with my notebook out of commission, the tux is now the livingroom internet terminal, and the keyboard is driving me nuts |
| 18:50:56 | holden | AlHazWork: Have you tried replacing the batteries in the keyboard? |
| 18:52:26 | AlHazWork | yes |
| 18:52:53 | AlHazWork | my keyboard is powered with fresh-from-the-package Duracell Ultra AAAs |
| 18:53:12 | AlHazWork | it still drops aboug 1 in 15 key presses |
| 18:53:15 | AlHazWork | about, even |
| 18:53:57 | AlHazWork | I'm cobbling together a settop-alike system, tho, so it might be irrelevant before long |
| 18:54:03 | holden | AlHazWork: How much distance is between the keyboard and the TuxScreen? I see occasional key presses lost too; probably more like 1 in 30 though. |
| 18:54:21 | AlHazWork | holden: Anywhere between 1cm and 15cm |
| 18:54:35 | AlHazWork | sometimes with the windows actually touching |
| 18:55:46 | holden | AlHazWork: I use it with the keyboard sat on my lap about 30-50cm away from the unit. |
| 18:56:58 | AlHazWork | if i'm that far away it drops about 1 in 5 characters |
| 19:01:39 | holden | AlHazWork: I just tried mine from 1m away and it still only dropped about 1 in 10 characters. It sounds like yours is unusually poor for some reason. Do you have strong ambient light, or flourescent lights that might interfere with it? |
| 19:03:25 | AlHazWork | It works about the same in the dark |
| 19:03:46 | AlHazWork | I have two phones with dissimilar serial numbers that are both awful with the keyboard |
| 19:04:01 | AlHazWork | with either keyboard, also with similar sejin keyboards |
| 19:09:40 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: I have the same problems with my 2 tux's & their keyboards. random errors, seemingly unconnected with which keyboard or how far away they are. |
| 19:14:01 | AlHazWork | Yeah |
| 19:14:13 | AlHazWork | I read somewhere that someone had a mod to hardwire the keyboard |
| 19:14:19 | AlHazWork | was wondering if it increased reliability |
| 19:14:29 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: could this be a software problem? |
| 19:14:37 | AlHazWork | GPSFan: it sucked in inferno too |
| 19:14:49 | AlHazWork | at least the one i tried with inferno did |
| 19:14:59 | GPSFan | AlHazWork:ah, I never tried mine that long. |
| 19:15:28 | AlHazWork | I actually had inferno dialing into netzero, browsing, and downloading email |
| 19:15:39 | AlHazWork | it sucked, unfortunately |
| 19:16:31 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: let me take my tux over to the scope, and see what the waveform out of the IR rcvr looks like. brb... |
| 19:21:48 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: the waveform looks nice & crisp, but I found an interesting thing, the keybaord starts repeating keys instantly, so a keypress could transmit 2 char's. |
| 19:22:52 | AlHazWork | makes sense |
| 19:22:59 | AlHazWork | but my problem is that it never gets the first one |
| 19:23:06 | AlHazWork | the tux, I mean |
| 19:24:53 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: my mistake it looks like there are 3 bursts of data for each key press-release event. |
| 19:24:56 | BZFlag | I've had trouble with some florecent [sp?] light systems. |
| 19:25:09 | AlHazWork | BZFlag: Yeah, but the keyboard sucks in the dark too |
| 19:25:54 | AlHazWork | my original question was that, assuming the mod i saw to hardwire the keyboard replaced the infrared nonsense, does that improve reliability? |
| 19:28:40 | holden | AlHazWork: You mean joining the grounds and connecting the transmitter output to the receiver input through a potential divider? I guess that would probably help. You might possibly also need to invert the signal, depending on what kind of reciever module it uses. |
| 19:28:45 | AlHazWork | Trying to actually use the tux keyboard for anything in it's current state is an exercise in futility |
| 19:29:01 | BZFlag | have not tried that. I did use mine from like 15 feet a way for a while with good response. |
| 19:29:46 | holden | BZFlag: did you need binoculars to read the text on the display? ;) |
| 19:30:56 | AlHazWork | Sometimes i can go a whole line of text without it dropping more than one or two characters |
| 19:31:03 | AlHazWork | sometimes every 5th character or so is missed |
| 19:31:13 | AlHazWork | it just really, really blows |
| 19:32:38 | AlHazWork | if it's not gonna be reliable it's not worth using, therefore I'm interested in increasing the reliability |
| 19:54:30 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: the IR receiver is tuned, that is it puts out a logic 1 when there is an IR signal there of a certain frequency. so connecting the diode in the kbd to the rcvr out in the Tux won't quite work, but I think there is a point on the kbd ckt that you can get an image of the real signal data. |
| 19:57:47 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 20:16:36 | BZFlag | holden: heh. I was using it to control an app, not for typing. actually did use it to type some stuff without seeing it and it was still mostly correct. |
| 20:36:26 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: I hard wired my keybaord in, and it seems solid, I've only typed a few lines as fast as I can, and it hasn't misses a single char. 3 wires, no cuts/jumpers, no more kbd batts. |
| 20:57:05 | CosmicPenguin | I love LinuxWorld time - there is always so much optimism |
| 20:58:41 | Hiraghm | Halp Halp |
| 20:58:45 | file | eh? |
| 20:58:53 | Hiraghm | need halp from some hardware typez |
| 20:59:02 | file | groans as his head hurts |
| 20:59:08 | Hiraghm | comforts file |
| 20:59:13 | Hiraghm | Halp halp! |
| 20:59:17 | Hiraghm | ibot help |
| 20:59:28 | | file was last seen on #tuxscreen 0 seconds ago, saying: ibot seen file [Wed Jan 30 20:59:28 2002] |
| 20:59:28 | file | ibot seen file |
| 20:59:37 | | BZFlag was last seen on #bzflag 11 seconds ago, saying: crs23: menus need to scale/repage based on display size. [Wed Jan 30 20:59:26 2002] |
| 20:59:37 | Hiraghm | ibot seen BZFlag |
| 20:59:44 | Hiraghm | BZ!! Halp! |
| 21:00:05 | Hiraghm | here's a pic of the problem |
| 21:00:07 | file | ibot is messed up |
| 21:00:20 | Hiraghm | http://www.xtimports.com/data/graphics/brokenpins.jpg |
| 21:00:41 | file | !!! |
| 21:04:01 | BZFlag | what's wrong with ibot? |
| 21:04:10 | Hiraghm | BZ? |
| 21:04:13 | Hiraghm | halp halp |
| 21:04:18 | | BZFlag was last seen on #tuxscreen 17 seconds ago, saying: what's wrong with ibot? [Wed Jan 30 21:04:01 2002] |
| 21:04:18 | Hiraghm | ibot seen BZFlag |
| 21:04:55 | BZFlag | what are those pins from? |
| 21:04:56 | Hiraghm | I need to know if the 3 broken pins in the uppr left of the picture can be repaired |
| 21:05:10 | Hiraghm | AmiFast Amiga 3000 memory expansion |
| 21:05:20 | Hiraghm | it plugs into the zip sockets of an Amiga 3000 |
| 21:05:21 | BZFlag | just desolder the connection and solder in a new one. |
| 21:05:27 | Hiraghm | can I get new ones? |
| 21:05:59 | BZFlag | sure. try radio shack or digikey |
| 21:06:03 | Hiraghm | they look like they screw on. I never saw pins like those before |
| 21:06:07 | Hiraghm | nods |
| 21:06:10 | Hiraghm | Thanks BZ! |
| 21:06:22 | Hiraghm | I bought the thing on Ebay before I noticed the broken pins in the picture 8c( |
| 21:06:42 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: here is a wiki page on what I did: http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/KeyboardPix |
| 21:06:43 | BZFlag | as long as you get ones with the same spacing you are fine. |
| 21:06:57 | Hiraghm | I'll take it into R/S with me |
| 21:07:13 | Hiraghm | gotta make sure it's a real R/S |
| 21:08:13 | BZFlag | finds it humorous that "verde" is a blue cable. |
| 21:09:36 | GPSFan | BZFlag: most of the silk screen labels on the tux board are in spanish. |
| 21:09:59 | GPSFan | BZFlag: and I didn't have any verde wire. ;>) |
| 21:20:38 | jon | those things are only $99? |
| 21:20:52 | Hiraghm | the tuxscreens? yes |
| 21:20:53 | AlHazWork | GPSFan: Interesting. Thanks |
| 21:21:06 | AlHazWork | i might duplicate your mod |
| 21:41:55 | GPSFan | AlHazWork: I'd like to hear if your's work better too. |
| 21:44:03 | AlHazWork | GPSFan: Thing is my notebook is out of commission, so the tux is the internet terminal in the livingroom now |
| 21:44:13 | AlHazWork | and it's a really irritating irc terminal |
| 21:45:38 | GPSFan | bummer, I really think the kbd is better now, but much less convienient. |
| 21:46:16 | prpplague | anyone have a recomendation on a dual ethernet board to be used as as router/firewall |
| 21:46:20 | prpplague | ??? |
| 21:51:51 | AlHazWork | prpplague: dual ethernet pci card? |
| 21:52:14 | BZFlag | GPSFan: they were made in mexico, says so on the box. |
| 21:52:30 | BZFlag | the keyboards were probably not made there, but shipped from .kr or someplace. |
| 21:52:41 | AlHazWork | prpplague: do you need fast ethernet or is 10bT enough? I have quad-ethernet card I'm not using . . |
| 21:53:19 | BZFlag | GPSFan: build a keyboard drawer for under the tux. |
| 21:53:31 | prpplague | AlHazWork: sorry i mean a mb that has dual ethernet onboard |
| 21:54:10 | BZFlag | AlHazWork: linux supported? sell it to IT, I think johnk is looking for one. |
| 21:54:26 | AlHazWork | BZFlag: Yeah, it's just four 21040's and a pci-pci bridge |
| 21:54:37 | AlHazWork | 10bT tho, not 100bT |
| 21:55:09 | GPSFan | BZFlag: I know... I've read the history hear & on Shaggys page. juat glad you were able to snag them. ;>) |
| 21:55:49 | BZFlag | ah. nope then. he's looking for 4 100bt |
| 21:56:32 | BZFlag | GPSFan: heh, me too! there are less than 500 left. I'll have my basement back soon. |
| 21:56:37 | file | all in favor of keeping it static say aye, say aye |
| 21:56:38 | file | :) |
| 21:56:56 | BZFlag | what static? |
| 21:57:01 | file | BZFlag: I dunno |
| 21:57:25 | file | BZFlag: So what gadget will you be sellin' next? |
| 21:58:39 | BZFlag | working on the vercel pda now, but I won't have a bargin price on those. $350 retail. |
| 21:58:45 | file | bah |
| 21:58:54 | file | frowns |
| 21:59:09 | BZFlag | I tried to get a mess of audreys but could not swing a deal. |
| 21:59:35 | file | :| |
| 22:00:25 | BZFlag | also looked at a ton of dreamcasts but could not get them at a price that made it worthwhile. |
| 22:00:37 | file | stuff just ain't going your way? |
| 22:01:09 | BZFlag | it's just a lot of work. With the tux the deal was right. |
| 22:01:16 | file | nods |
| 22:01:20 | CosmicPenguin | BZFlag: signal11 picked up a dreamcast.... he was upset with it |
| 22:01:29 | file | I should go |
| 22:01:37 | file | gonna reboot into the QNX demo disk |
| 22:01:43 | file | I want to... explore |
| 22:01:50 | CosmicPenguin | maybe its time for us to make our own pda... :) Hell, everyone else is |
| 22:02:43 | sjm | morning all |
| 22:03:12 | | toolchain is probably at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/Toolchains |
| 22:03:12 | sjm | ibot: toolchain |
| 22:03:39 | prpplague | AlHazWork: ya 10bt is fine |
| 22:04:35 | sjm | For those that are interested, I solved my NFS mount problem - |
| 22:05:06 | sjm | It was a toolchain problem with busybox. Re-compiling with a different set fixed it. |
| 22:05:27 | sjm | I was using the netwinder toolchain. There is a similar thread on the uClinux mailing list |
| 22:05:45 | sjm | at the moment regarding busybox and Arm - they are seeing similar problems. |
| 22:07:49 | CosmicPenguin | Whats that? |
| 22:11:01 | scanline | is back (gone 09:08:17) |
| 23:19:01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey dude, you know much about the SnapGear company? |
| 23:29:37 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: Hold on, I'm trying to google my memory |
| 23:30:03 | prpplague | lol |
| 23:30:13 | prpplague | http://www.snapgear.com |
| 23:30:35 | prpplague | looks like they are out of SLC |
| 23:31:46 | CosmicPenguin | Yep, clear out in BFE.... :) |
| 23:31:53 | prpplague | lol |
| 23:32:19 | prpplague | i'm ordering a pair of those snapgear lite routers tomorrow |
| 23:33:27 | CosmicPenguin | This triggered my memory when you said snapgear: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3750482354.html |
| 23:33:35 | CosmicPenguin | Those look pretty cool |
| 23:34:11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: They're not too far away from me, maybe I should run over and knock on their door... :) |
| 23:34:49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: why you looking for a job? or just want to check them out? |
| 23:35:41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you done anything with mmu-less processors? |
| 23:35:45 | CosmicPenguin | Nah, just to see if they will show my any cool stuff |
| 23:35:52 | prpplague | has yet to tackle mmu-less |
| 23:36:19 | CosmicPenguin | has not don't anything with it either |
| 23:36:27 | sjm | Development is based in Queensland. |
| 23:36:53 | prpplague | queensland, hmmm is that in NZ? |
| 23:37:01 | sjm | Australia. |
| 23:37:23 | prpplague | doh |
| 23:37:41 | prpplague | i couldn't remember if it was NZ or OZ |
| 23:37:48 | sjm | Snapgear used to be Moreton Bay - which started up as a two man |
| 23:38:30 | sjm | show and has since grown. They do lots of cool stuff. There used to be pics inside their office - showing the developers at work, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. |
| 23:38:43 | prpplague | hmm, i guess if those units are running uclinux, i can get source code |
| 23:39:04 | sjm | Yep. They provide source with their products. |
| 23:39:24 | prpplague | cool, that means i can REALLY screw stuff up |
| 23:39:29 | prpplague | lol |
| 23:39:48 | sjm | They are really helpful on the uClinux list, and very supportive of local uni students too :) |
| 23:40:20 | prpplague | sjm: sounds cool, you into uclinux? |
| 23:40:34 | sjm | I get paid to do uClinux stuff :) |
| 23:40:45 | prpplague | you bum |
| 23:40:56 | prpplague | is still stuck in x86 hell |
| 23:41:06 | sjm | Nah - I still have to come into the office every day, and dress nicely <g> |
| 23:41:31 | prpplague | lol |
| 23:41:38 | file | hums |
| 23:41:42 | sjm | At the moment we're using 68EZ328, but starting a new design using the ARM7DTMI next month. |
| 23:43:35 | prpplague | sjm: done anything with the new sharp arm core? |
| 23:44:09 | sjm | Nope. Cost is a big issue for us. :( |
| 23:44:19 | sjm | That's why we've stuck with the dragonball for so long. |
| 23:47:06 | AlHazWork | which arm7tdmi core are you using? |
| 23:48:13 | sjm | Umm... Whatever comes with the AT91EB40 evaluation board :) |
| 23:49:15 | prpplague | well we are gearing up for about 4 new embedded projects, we just flooded the local papers with adds for developers |
| 23:49:32 | sjm | Consider remote development??? |
| 23:50:14 | prpplague | sjm: we've not done that before, but we may have to with the work load. why you need some work? |
| 23:52:10 | sjm | I don't *need* it, but it's always nice to have opportunities available if they arise. |
| 23:52:52 | prpplague | sjm: i'll keep ya in mind |
| 23:53:10 | sjm | Thanks :) |
| 23:53:57 | prpplague | well off to the boss's office for one of those great afternoon meetings |
| 23:53:59 | prpplague | later |
| 23:58:30 | Russ|werk | hey prp |
| 23:58:30 | Russ|werk | er |
| 23:58:34 | Russ|werk | he's gone |
