| 00:00:31 | Russ | Niddix: get erikm's toolchain |
| 00:00:39 | Russ | from the lart pages, the 2.95.3 one |
| 00:00:45 | | russ: no idea |
| 00:00:45 | Russ | ibot: crosscompile? |
| 00:00:59 | | toolchain is ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/ |
| 00:00:59 | Russ | ibot: toolchain? |
| 00:01:04 | | Russ: excuse me? |
| 00:01:04 | Russ | ibot: no |
| 00:01:14 | Russ | that one sucks |
| 00:01:28 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: You mean performance wise/ |
| 00:01:44 | Russ | I mean compiling things succesfully wise |
| 00:02:14 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: We have had few if any problems with the arm-linux from handhelds.... any particular apps piss you off?? |
| 00:02:37 | | ...but toolchain is ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/... |
| 00:02:37 | Russ | ibot: toolchain is <reply> a good toolchain is at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ get cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2 |
| 00:02:49 | Russ | the kernel |
| 00:02:58 | CosmicPenguin | The new one? |
| 00:03:16 | Russ | yah |
| 00:03:20 | | ...but toolchain is ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/... |
| 00:03:20 | Russ | ibot: no, toolchain is <reply> a good toolchain is at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ get cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2 |
| 00:03:25 | | ...but toolchain is ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/... |
| 00:03:25 | Russ | ibot: no, toolchain is <reply> a good toolchain is at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ get cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2 |
| 00:03:32 | | Russ: I forgot toolchain |
| 00:03:32 | Russ | ibot: forget toolchain |
| 00:03:35 | | OK, Russ. |
| 00:03:35 | Russ | ibot: toolchain is <reply> a good toolchain is at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ get cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2 |
| 00:03:38 | | a good toolchain is at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ get cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2 |
| 00:03:38 | Russ | ibot: toolchain |
| 00:03:42 | CosmicPenguin | Ahhh..... sad.... I suppose I have to switch then |
| 00:03:59 | CosmicPenguin | But thats ok, since I can try andersee's C++ rumor at the same time |
| 00:04:52 | Russ | <jwalden> init/main.o: In function `start_kernel': |
| 00:04:52 | Russ | <jwalden> init/main.o(.text.init+0x68c): undefined reference to `cpu_CPU_NAME_check_bugs' |
| 00:04:52 | Russ | <jwalden> init/main.o(.text.init+0x68c): relocation truncated to fit: R_ARM_PC24 cpu_CPU_NAME_check_bugs |
| 00:04:52 | Russ | <jwalden> arch/arm/kernel/kernel.o: In function `__dabt_svc': |
| 00:04:53 | Russ | etc |
| 00:05:22 | Niddix | Russ: Yeah I've got that toolchain.. I'm in the process of 'make'ing for the first time. |
| 00:05:35 | Niddix | Russ: Over a 128k link.. it'll be a while I think. |
| 00:05:51 | Russ | its 35M, so not really |
| 00:06:14 | Niddix | Russ: Is it all one but wget? |
| 00:06:22 | Niddix | Russ: s/but/big |
| 00:06:27 | Russ | yah, but you can resume |
| 00:06:33 | Russ | anyway, gtg |
| 00:06:37 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Thats a common thing.... thats because it started compiling without the cross compiler..... |
| 00:06:48 | collord | which is or how compares the arm toolchain that debian ships? |
| 00:07:03 | CosmicPenguin | You need the cross compiler binary path in your $PATH *before* you start or bad stuff happens |
| 00:08:06 | jacques_gone | :-( |
| 00:08:26 | jacques | my tuxscreens aren't here :-( |
| 00:08:29 | Niddix | CosmicPenguin: I'm sort of fuzzy on the whole good, bad thing.. |
| 00:08:51 | CosmicPenguin | Niddix: hehehe...... |
| 00:42:01 | Sammy | hi all |
| 00:43:20 | scanline | morning Sammy |
| 00:48:06 | vosque | morning indeed. |
| 00:48:53 | scanline | :) |
| 00:49:19 | scanline | Nah, it's tradition... i have to say 'morning sammy' every day |
| 00:49:36 | vosque | ah |
| 00:49:38 | vosque | alright. |
| 00:49:46 | vosque | I did just wake up, though. |
| 00:49:51 | scanline | ohh |
| 00:49:55 | Sammy | morning scanline :) |
| 00:50:02 | scanline | I woke up at about 3PM |
| 00:50:09 | scanline | and it's 7PM here now |
| 00:50:32 | vosque | haha |
| 00:50:38 | vosque | glad I'm not alone. |
| 00:50:39 | Sammy | because I will say morning "every morning " |
| 00:51:00 | Sammy | and here is almost 10AM now ... |
| 00:51:07 | scanline | hehe |
| 00:51:10 | scanline | time zones are fun |
| 00:51:49 | vosque | It's almost 7PM here |
| 00:51:59 | vosque | I passed out around 1. |
| 00:52:16 | scanline | vosque: really... you're on mountain time too? |
| 00:53:41 | vosque | I think si. |
| 00:53:42 | vosque | er |
| 00:53:43 | vosque | so |
| 00:53:47 | vosque | I live in Arizona. |
| 00:53:53 | vosque | We've got our own time zone. |
| 00:53:59 | vosque | ah |
| 00:54:03 | scanline | really... |
| 00:54:09 | vosque | I'm ahead of my friend in CA. |
| 00:54:13 | scanline | I'm in Colorado |
| 00:54:14 | vosque | Which means, yes, mountain. |
| 00:55:56 | vosque | hmm |
| 00:56:01 | EGg0_dinner | is away: I'm reading a book. Do you remember books? |
| 00:56:14 | vosque | books are hard to upgrade. |
| 00:56:21 | vosque | and I can't parse event.c |
| 00:56:25 | vosque | this makes me sad. |
| 00:58:14 | scanline | vosque: so what have you been working on? |
| 00:59:02 | vosque | scanline: well.. I was going to borrow the event.c code for a perl program which would do some wacky things in X and inject the callerid info into a database. |
| 00:59:23 | vosque | But I have hit something of a wall. ANd I'm not much of a C person. |
| 00:59:27 | vosque | Yet, anyway. |
| 00:59:40 | scanline | Ah, so it would be a like a GUI for tuxphone? |
| 00:59:56 | vosque | just a little window that would pop up when I've got a phone call. |
| 01:00:47 | scanline | CosmicPenguin's doing the microwindows GUI (i think), i'm doing the picogui GUI, and you can maintain the X GUI :) |
| 01:01:20 | vosque | yikes. |
| 01:01:22 | boodle | linux working on ipaq ia-1 :-)) |
| 01:01:30 | scanline | Though i need to work on pgtuxphone some more... i've been busy with other code |
| 01:01:44 | vosque | pgtuxphone? |
| 01:01:53 | scanline | picogui frontend to tuxphone |
| 01:01:56 | vosque | is that the microwin stuff? |
| 01:02:03 | scanline | no, it's picogui |
| 01:02:10 | vosque | was working on QPE, but decided it wasn't what he needed. |
| 01:02:14 | vosque | ah, right. |
| 01:02:30 | vosque | I'll get back to it at some point, though |
| 01:02:30 | boodle | Has anyone expanded tuxscreen ram memory substantially? |
| 01:03:22 | scanline | vosque: if you haven't tried picogui on the tuxscreen yet, GoRK made a jffs2 and kernel image a while back |
| 01:04:25 | SpaceCoaster | scanline: how are you planning on handling the raw touchscreen coords in the 2.4.13 kernel? |
| 01:05:24 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: I think GoRK is going to move the formerly kernelspace calibration code into the picogui, microwindows, and X input drivers. If all the GUIs use the same calibration code, fbtuxcal will still be our universal calibrator |
| 01:05:25 | vosque | ooo |
| 01:05:29 | vosque | I'll have to try it |
| 01:06:01 | vosque | works just fine for X |
| 01:06:50 | SpaceCoaster | scanline: couldn't we use a loadable kernel module to do the calibration? |
| 01:07:21 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: I still prefer doing calibration in the kernel... in fact, it'd be nice to have touchscreens integrated with the input subsystem, but rmk apparently doesn't agree |
| 01:07:50 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: Maybe a separate module would get into the kernel, but i dunno... we could maintain our own patches for that if needed |
| 01:08:47 | SpaceCoaster | well I was just looking at blkmtd.c which interposes and provides a mtd interface to any block device. We could have a tiny driver which did the same for the touchscreen. |
| 01:09:13 | scanline | hmm, that'd be cool. Fix the kernel to act like it used to, and leave the GUI's alone |
| 01:09:27 | vosque | rmk is not into a unified touchpad system? |
| 01:09:52 | scanline | vosque: Well, I just know what i heard from GoRK, but apparently he wants things to be very low-level in the kernel |
| 01:10:33 | SpaceCoaster | well I'm lookint at QTE and I suspect that GoRK won't be modifying that. |
| 01:10:34 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: maybe we should ask rmk to write it, not. |
| 01:10:38 | scanline | vosque: A unified touchscreen architecture would be great. Combined with the framebuffer device, it would go a long ways toward portability on embedded systems |
| 01:10:51 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: Ahh... good point |
| 01:11:03 | vosque | it would.. |
| 01:11:32 | scanline | I mean, almost every piece of hardware picogui runs on uses the framebuffer for video. Everything has to have its own custom input driver though. it's crazy |
| 01:11:37 | vosque | and, correct me if I'm wrong, but we've got something of a unified interface for most of the other input devices, yea? |
| 01:11:51 | vosque | the framebuffer is a big part of that. |
| 01:11:59 | scanline | yep |
| 01:12:32 | vosque | is rmk expecting to get the patches into the main kernel tree? |
| 01:12:34 | scanline | I mean, i'd just ask for something with a similar level of support as the framebuffer... standard ioctls for getting/setting calibration, a standard data format... |
| 01:13:06 | scanline | vosque: I doubt that would happen any time soon... I mean, it's our tux patches applied on top of the rmk patch on top of alan cox's patch... |
| 01:13:16 | scanline | It's a patchy kernel |
| 01:13:20 | vosque | truethat. |
| 01:13:41 | vosque | I'm just thinking we'd end up with a unified way of dealing with touchscreens in any case. |
| 01:13:44 | scanline | wishes linux used CVS |
| 01:14:16 | scanline | Hey, i'd be glad to have anything remotely standard for embedded systems input |
| 01:14:22 | vosque | since it appears to me that we have a unified way of dealing with every other type of hardware that's supported in linux. |
| 01:14:31 | scanline | but it linux's current state, that's the job of user space |
| 01:14:36 | scanline | right |
| 01:15:17 | scanline | This whole mess is why GUI systems have to have their own set of drivers just to interface with the myriad of real drivers in linux |
| 01:16:43 | scanline | oh well... </rant> |
| 01:17:16 | vosque | Does rmk have some sort of religious arguement for it, or is it he just doesn't want to do it? |
| 01:17:38 | vosque | I can understand the latter. |
| 01:17:53 | SpaceCoaster | scanline: ok back to this translation module, do you think it's worth persuing, in the short term? |
| 01:18:07 | scanline | I dunno, i don't know the kernel people directly. GoRK was working on the kernel, and frustrated with rmk |
| 01:18:59 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: Yeah, i think it would be useful |
| 01:19:32 | scanline | but, what about the calibration... |
| 01:19:53 | scanline | I assume this means we'd still transition userspace code to use the new 'official' raw interface? |
| 01:20:07 | scanline | If so, they'd probably be reading calibration data from a file or an environment var |
| 01:20:27 | scanline | But apps using the kernel module would get calibration from the kernel |
| 01:20:42 | scanline | so fbtuxcal might get a little weird |
| 01:21:28 | SpaceCoaster | scanline: the module could provide exactly the same interface as a present. It would provide a character device which we could call what we want. |
| 01:21:52 | SpaceCoaster | scanline: It would avoid changing anything in userspace. |
| 01:21:57 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: Ok |
| 01:22:30 | scanline | Though there are some benefits to the new interface. The new raw driver sends the pen's pressure |
| 01:22:50 | SpaceCoaster | what did the old one do? |
| 01:23:56 | scanline | Just x,y and tap |
| 01:24:01 | prpplague | well guys, i've had all the #$%#$% cisco fun i can stand for today.... |
| 01:24:26 | prpplague | heads home for b-n-b ( beer and bed ) |
| 01:24:41 | scanline | SpaceCoaster: Though... it looks like there's an unused word in this touchscreen packet. Maybe the pressure could go in there if requested? |
| 01:24:55 | scanline | prpplague: good night |
| 01:25:18 | prpplague | nightall, happy hackin' |
| 01:25:25 | SpaceCoaster | prpplague: cheers |
| 01:28:43 | SpaceCoaster | scanline: the driver could be called tuxscreen.c :-) |
| 01:29:06 | scanline | hehe |
| 01:29:54 | SpaceCoaster | stop those pesky ipaq people from using it :-) |
| 01:30:12 | scanline | Haha. Just like they stopped us from using Xipaq? |
| 01:30:57 | SpaceCoaster | Well I used Xfbdev, is Xipaq cooler? |
| 01:31:16 | scanline | I dunno |
| 01:31:24 | SpaceCoaster | ok |
| 01:31:32 | scanline | i've just heard of people using it on the Tux, and thought that was funny |
| 01:31:58 | scanline | grr... "ssh: cvs.tuxscreen.net: Temporary failure in name resolution |
| 01:31:58 | scanline | " |
| 01:37:07 | vosque | I'm using it. |
| 01:37:14 | vosque | Xipaq that is. |
| 01:37:34 | scanline | joyously realizes he's fixed a bug |
| 01:37:44 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: is it cooler or smaller than Xfbdev |
| 01:37:48 | vosque | See, I used to have this phone with a built in RS-232 terminal on my desk, plugged into my openbsd box. |
| 01:38:12 | vosque | SpaceCoaster: It's based off of Xfbdev, as far as I can tell. |
| 01:38:24 | vosque | I use it because I didn't have to download 20 megs of source to use it. |
| 01:39:28 | SpaceCoaster | now that is a good idea! My Xfbdev probably came from task-familiar-complete so it is almost certainly the same thing. |
| 01:39:41 | vosque | probably is. |
| 01:40:25 | vosque | But, I got the tux because it's cooler, and significantly smaller than my rs232 phone. So I'm running X on it and using it to interface with my headless openbsd box. |
| 01:40:39 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: hmm, I came across that name recently... |
| 01:40:52 | vosque | which name? |
| 01:41:20 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: "I'm currently working on getting QPE to work. |
| 01:41:20 | SpaceCoaster | " |
| 01:41:27 | vosque | righton |
| 01:41:32 | vosque | I should update that. |
| 01:41:32 | vosque | :) |
| 01:41:47 | vosque | I got it to work, but there were touchscreen problems that were beyond my ken to fix. |
| 01:42:11 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: I compiled QTE today, just for fun, and I was going to ask you about the touchscreen problems :-( |
| 01:43:06 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: it looks straight forward, just needs to be compiled with #QT_QWS_CUSTOMTOUCHPANEL |
| 01:43:08 | boodle | Greetings. What's the maximum ram memory ppl have been able to install on tuxscreen? |
| 01:43:36 | SpaceCoaster | boodle: I'm the winner, I have 32M working, tho' 40M is actually installed! |
| 01:44:50 | boodle | SpaceCoaster: cool! Details available anywhere? |
| 01:45:21 | vosque | SpaceCoaster: I saw something like that, but the custom touch panel routines need to be changed to work with the tux's. |
| 01:45:31 | SpaceCoaster | Hmm, I should say "on the Wiki" but... |
| 01:46:31 | boodle | hehe I understand. btw, I just threw the jailbait distro on a flashcard and booted ipaq ia-1. it looks like a pretty decent distro (blackbox + netscape etc...) |
| 01:47:23 | vosque | there's a memory problem? |
| 01:47:37 | SpaceCoaster | vosque: changed, but not too much, at first glance they look real close. |
| 01:47:50 | vosque | SpaceCoaster: Ahh, okay. |
| 02:27:44 | | BZFlag: sorry... |
| 02:27:44 | BZFlag | ibot ping ns1.granitecanyon.com |
| 02:35:31 | | GoRK was last seen on #tuxscreen 8 hours, 9 minutes and 42 seconds ago, saying: im going to use the code from the old kernel to handle calibration [Thu Nov 15 18:25:49 2001] |
| 02:35:31 | BZFlag | ibot: seen GoRK |
| 02:36:13 | andersee | prpplague: alrighty |
| 02:43:08 | prpplague | andersee: this may be a stupid question, but have you done much work with uclinux? |
| 03:09:53 | andersee | prpplague: yes. |
| 03:11:06 | jacques_gone | i want to run linux on my xbox |
| 03:12:49 | andersee | jacques_gone: I believe they are just a plain old pc under the hood.... |
| 03:14:05 | jacques_gone | andersee: i read they have heavy duty encryption to prevent running of non-authorized code |
| 03:14:29 | jacques_gone | andersee: a PII700 and GeForce3 for $300? |
| 03:14:53 | jacques_gone | geforce3 alone retails for > $300 |
| 03:15:33 | jacques_gone | if i could get linux running I would buy a bunch of them - one wall street analyst said MS is going to lose $1 billion on the hardware |
| 03:15:50 | dirkx | wheatie: what are the device/node hex numbers for mknod /dev/wheatie (or should that be done by automagic on linux ?) |
| 03:15:56 | andersee | jacques_gone: i'm sure it will be quickly cracked... :) |
| 03:16:07 | jacques_gone | andersee: i really hope so |
| 03:16:35 | dirkx | jacques_gone: check out the NetBSD list - several japanese folks being quite far along already. |
| 03:16:46 | jacques_gone | dirkx: whoo!!! |
| 03:16:55 | andersee | The x box is $300 |
| 03:17:13 | andersee | Does it have a fan? dual nics? PCI slots? |
| 03:19:44 | jacques_gone | andersee: dont think it has dual nics |
| 03:19:56 | jacques_gone | andersee: i guess it's gotta cool that pIII700 somehow |
| 03:20:23 | jacques_gone | andersee: I doubtit has pci slots, but it already has DVD, HD, sound, video, NIC |
| 03:23:33 | andersee | Wonder if it used USB for the controllers (making keyboard easy) |
| 03:24:30 | jacques_gone | i would really like to know about the internal hardware myself |
| 03:26:17 | dirkx | The command 'pivot_root' is part of busybox right ? |
| 03:28:18 | andersee | dirkx: yup |
| 03:28:44 | dirkx | Just wondering why pivot_root gives me a 'no such file or directory' second time round in linuxrc. |
| 03:29:44 | andersee | dunno |
| 03:29:59 | dirkx | First time: Mounting ramfs on /var |
| 03:30:13 | dirkx | Second time: Mounting /tux/buildroot-tux/root |
| 03:30:19 | dirkx | pivot_root: pivot_root: No such file or directory |
| 03:31:20 | dirkx | (Although dhcp/nfs and other UDP based traffic seems to suffer from some packet truncation in general (esp. DHCP)) -0 so this may convolute things a litt. |
| 03:31:40 | BZFlag | keeps fighting with networksolutions... |
| 03:32:31 | dirkx | BZFlag - what is the issue ? I've worked with them a lot in the past. Can I help ? |
| 03:33:45 | BZFlag | dirkx: trying to remove the HOST whois record for RIKERS.ORG |
| 03:33:58 | dirkx | This is a host template ? |
| 03:34:21 | BZFlag | my brother-in-law listed a domain HAINS.NET with the name server as RIKERS.ORG so the |
| 03:34:36 | BZFlag | old IP for rikers.org is in an A record in the root servers |
| 03:35:06 | BZFlag | so nobody looks at the DNS SOA for rikers.org cause the root servers answer the question. |
| 03:35:41 | BZFlag | I guess listing a domain name as a name server is a Bad Thing. |
| 03:36:11 | dirkx | Eh - that makes no sense. When you registered rikers.org - did you specify the NS-es as an IP, as a Host handle or both ? (i.e. whas the host handle for your NS inferred by the IPs of the DNS server?) |
| 03:37:12 | BZFlag | at some point I added RIKERS.ORG as a nameserver for the domain RIKERS.ORG |
| 03:37:20 | dirkx | No - you can list a domain name as a name server just fine - as long as the IP matches the host handle. If not you can recover by submitting an update RQ with the IP address of your name serves *and* their cannonical names. If the IP is not present as a Hosthandle assigned - they will get one. |
| 03:37:20 | BZFlag | and that created a host record. |
| 03:38:13 | BZFlag | I am not using the host record any place now... the IP has changed, but NSI has the old one. |
| 03:38:20 | dirkx | Wait a second - are you sure you are registered with network solutions ? The above is not possible with them; or are you using dotster or one of the others ? |
| 03:38:32 | BZFlag | I want to change it, but there is no contact information on the host record. |
| 03:38:57 | BZFlag | dirkx: it was registered with NSI but then I moved the domains to doster. |
| 03:39:08 | dirkx | This is RIKERS.ORG ? - what is the handle ? NIC handle ? |
| 03:39:25 | BZFlag | host handle RIKERS.ORG, no nic handle |
| 03:39:53 | dirkx | Hmm - how is that possible ? if you register with NSI you should have a handle ? |
| 03:40:11 | BZFlag | the nameserver is listed on HAINS.NET but I don't have control of that one. |
| 03:40:28 | BZFlag | I have a handle. TR4014, the host record does not have a handle listed. |
| 03:40:36 | dirkx | That is fine. (and quite normal) - ack let me dig. |
| 03:41:10 | BZFlag | do dig a server for rikers.org and you get the NSI A record for the ip. |
| 03:41:30 | dirkx | The IP's for your *old* NS are 205.166.226.38,204.1.217.148 ? - what is the new set ? |
| 03:41:34 | BZFlag | now dig a nameserver for the domain (eg: ns1.codepoet.org) and you get the correct A record. |
| 03:42:22 | BZFlag | RIKERS.ORG was 209.140.76.229 and should now be 166.70.15.250 |
| 03:42:27 | dirkx | Delegation to 204.1.217.148 and 205.166.226.38 by dotster.com seems to be fine -> but these do not answer. |
| 03:42:39 | dirkx | Hmm - why does dotster give me then the 20x addresses still ? |
| 03:44:23 | dirkx | Looks like you'll have to take your beef to dotster (which seem to cname rather than A anyway) |
| 03:44:45 | BZFlag | cname what? |
| 03:45:32 | dirkx | Dotster cnames your domain servers; i.e. they have a FQHN rather than an IP. But in any case the FQHN is wrong anyway. So that should propably be fixed first :-) |
| 03:47:16 | BZFlag | huh? the same servers for rikers.org are fine. (well, it looks like they are down at the moment, but excepting that) |
| 03:47:26 | BZFlag | it's the HOST record I'm trying to remove. |
| 03:47:39 | BZFlag | but a domain is using it so they won't remove it. |
| 03:47:41 | dirkx | Actually - that may be a glue record issue - I may be wrong there; as NSx.granitecanyon.com is unreachable. |
| 03:48:27 | dirkx | But why do you want to remove it ? Simply submit a domain template with the new ip;s and 2 host templates with ip->name mappings. I.e. it is *NOT* name->ip you are registering. |
| 03:49:14 | dirkx | Or to put it strong - if someone else registers an (same) IP->newname - then that will show up. The NS name is irrelevant (though confusing). Do a search on webweaving.org, vangulik.org and cafax.se to get an idea as to how convolutied this normallyg gets. |
| 03:54:20 | dirkx | In the above - each has a host template of the form ns<#>.<domain>.org <-> IP - but in the whois record the eldest one shows up in the NS field next to the IP address. |
| 03:55:12 | BZFlag | dig the root servers for rikers.org |
| 03:56:21 | BZFlag | they reply with the old IN A address. |
| 03:56:47 | BZFlag | as rikers.org is a domain, but it is also a nameserver entry with the incorrect address. |
| 03:58:22 | dirkx | Well - a non recursive dig for the NS shows that they have 205.166.226.38 and 204.1.217.148 as the NS-es. These are unreachable. So they reply with whatever got cached as those two IPs do not answer and/or perhaps give the wrong answer. |
| 03:58:34 | dirkx | And those NS-es are coming from dotster.com as such. |
| 04:00:18 | dirkx | dig rikers.org SOA +debug +norecurse; rikers.org SOA +debug |
| 04:00:18 | dirkx | rikers.org SOA +debug +norecurse |
| 04:00:59 | dirkx | (Do you have domtools or domwalk ? - that is easier in cases like this). |
| 04:01:47 | dirkx | Actually - none of the rootserves has rikers.org cached - only delegation - if you dig without a recurse - are you getting SOA's back from anyone ? (from whom?) |
| 04:07:13 | BZFlag | back |
| 04:07:34 | BZFlag | dirkx is not listening..... |
| 04:07:46 | BZFlag | the root servers have an A record for rikers.org |
| 04:07:49 | BZFlag | ot |
| 04:07:56 | BZFlag | it's not a cached record. |
| 04:08:10 | BZFlag | it's not from my nameserver |
| 04:08:26 | BZFlag | it's not from the listed name servers for the domain rikers.org |
| 04:08:31 | Russ | SpaceCoaster: you around? |
| 04:09:17 | BZFlag | it a HOST record in the nsi registry created by a domain I do not own. It shows the IP that the domain I do not own registered for that alleged name server. |
| 04:10:10 | BZFlag | try "dig +norecurse @a.gtld-servers.net rikers.org" to see. |
| 04:12:28 | BZFlag | so /me is hijacking the offending domain. (well, with permission. ;-) |
| 04:12:50 | dirkx | I am sorry - I cannot confirm that. When I do a dig at any of the rootservers; I get back only an NS - no A, SOA or CNAME: |
| 04:12:53 | dirkx | dig |
| 04:13:10 | dirkx | ;; ANSWER SECTION: |
| 04:13:10 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:10 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:11 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:11 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:11 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:12 | BZFlag | you did "dig +norecurse @a.gtld-servers.net rikers.org" ? |
| 04:13:12 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:14 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:16 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:18 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:20 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:22 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:24 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:13:27 | BZFlag | don't use root-servers.net.... |
| 04:13:27 | dirkx | . 6D IN NS H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. |
| 04:14:13 | dirkx | Yes - your command gives me a timeout. Also it does seem to ask for 'any' and does not seem to hit a root server ? |
| 04:14:28 | dirkx | Why not use root-servers.net ? |
| 04:14:30 | prpplague | andersee: sorry for the delay ( wash dishes/put sont o bed), so what is your overall view of uclinux? |
| 04:14:44 | BZFlag | dig at a.gtld-servers.net gives you a timeout?!? |
| 04:14:50 | dirkx | YEs. |
| 04:14:54 | BZFlag | root-servers.net was the old name. |
| 04:16:50 | BZFlag | a.gtld-servers.net is the first global nameserver. that's the official root now. not the old root-server.net naming. though the IP addresses are the same afaik |
| 04:17:30 | dirkx | Hmm- I thoughd that ' |
| 04:17:40 | BZFlag | a dig from here on a.root-servers.net just gives forward info to the new gltd-servers.net |
| 04:18:01 | BZFlag | er gtld-servers.net sorry. |
| 04:18:17 | dirkx | '.' -> ?.root-servers.net and '.' at gtld-servers.net -> <char><#>/nstld. com ? |
| 04:19:01 | BZFlag | true, but you are just adding a layer or indirection. |
| 04:19:22 | BZFlag | .com .org and .net are rooted at gtld-servers.net |
| 04:19:38 | dirkx | Hmm - a rather crucial one at that. |
| 04:19:41 | prpplague | andersee: the sales ppl at netsilicon have been calling the office trying to push the NET+ARM stuff with uclinux, i'm just wondering what kind of problems we could encounter with using mmu-less cpu's |
| 04:20:10 | BZFlag | so if you lookup a domain at root-servers.net all you will get is forwarding to gtld |
| 04:20:26 | BZFlag | well, at least a .net .org or .com ;-) |
| 04:20:53 | dirkx | That is ok :-) I am just trying to confirm -where- the real answer ends and caching begins - as you can fix the first and not the latter. |
| 04:21:03 | dirkx | That is what domtools/domwalk does. |
| 04:21:28 | BZFlag | rikers.org is listed (not caches) on *.gtld-servers.net |
| 04:21:48 | dirkx | And the NS points to NS1/NS2.granitecanyon.com -> is that part correct ? |
| 04:22:09 | BZFlag | NOT the domain rikers.org. the HOST rikers.org |
| 04:22:20 | BZFlag | there is no NS for the A record. |
| 04:22:26 | SpaceCoaster | Russ: just about to go to bed, whats up |
| 04:22:36 | BZFlag | the SOA for rikers.org is fine. |
| 04:22:47 | BZFlag | but that's not on the root servers. |
| 04:23:20 | dirkx | dig @G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. rikers.org SOA +norecurse |
| 04:23:29 | dirkx | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: |
| 04:23:29 | dirkx | rikers.org. 2D IN NS NS1.GRANITECANYON.COM. |
| 04:23:29 | dirkx | rikers.org. 2D IN NS NS2.GRANITECANYON.COM. |
| 04:23:29 | dirkx | ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: |
| 04:23:30 | dirkx | NS1.GRANITECANYON.COM. 2D IN A 205.166.226.38 |
| 04:23:30 | dirkx | NS2.GRANITECANYON.COM. 2D IN A 64.63.77.89 |
| 04:23:37 | dirkx | and then |
| 04:23:46 | dirkx | following the trail down: |
| 04:23:47 | dirkx | dirkx.nic:dirkx $dig @205.166.226.38 rikers.org SOA +norecurse |
| 04:23:47 | dirkx | ; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> @205.166.226.38 rikers.org SOA +norecurse |
| 04:23:48 | dirkx | ; (1 server found) |
| 04:23:48 | dirkx | ;; res options: init defnam dnsrch |
| 04:23:48 | dirkx | ;; res_nsend to server 205.166.226.38: Connection timed out |
| 04:23:49 | BZFlag | why do you keep looking at the SOA record that I tell you is fine? |
| 04:24:22 | BZFlag | ok, not fine... the listed nameserver is down. I know that. |
| 04:24:53 | BZFlag | but I can easily fix that by changing nameservers. (in fact the order is already in, just won't show till tomorrow) |
| 04:25:18 | BZFlag | so ignore that problem. |
| 04:25:45 | BZFlag | dig @G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. rikers.org A +norecurse |
| 04:25:53 | BZFlag | that's the problem. |
| 04:26:02 | dirkx | well - the SOA does not seem to be reachable ? I am just following the trail down - looking up the SOA and verifying it on each step is a very good way to see if anyone is caching something they should not. If there is no SOA/NS is down then no new authoritative data goes in - and your A is going to stay there until the NS is back. |
| 04:26:55 | BZFlag | yes. the SOA is unreachable. that just started tonight. granitecanyon is having issues. ignore that it will be fixed tomorrw. |
| 04:27:04 | dirkx | As soon as your NS is back up - and gives the right authoritative info out - then that A will simply go away as long as your SOA is there with a # number higher. |
| 04:27:04 | BZFlag | pleas check the output from: |
| 04:27:07 | BZFlag | dig @G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. rikers.org A +norecurse |
| 04:27:27 | BZFlag | dirkx: not true. that's what I'm telling you. |
| 04:27:36 | dirkx | Yes - that gives you an 'A' on 2 days - and as neither NS is up - it will give you that for the next 2 days at least. |
| 04:27:48 | dirkx | ; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> @G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. rikers.org A +norecurse |
| 04:27:48 | dirkx | ; (1 server found) |
| 04:27:48 | dirkx | ;; res options: init defnam dnsrch |
| 04:27:48 | dirkx | ;; got answer: |
| 04:27:48 | dirkx | ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 12294 |
| 04:27:48 | dirkx | ;; flags: qr; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 |
| 04:27:50 | dirkx | ;; QUERY SECTION: |
| 04:27:51 | BZFlag | no. are you listening? |
| 04:27:53 | dirkx | ;; rikers.org, type = A, class = IN |
| 04:27:54 | dirkx | ;; ANSWER SECTION: |
| 04:27:56 | dirkx | rikers.org. 2D IN A 209.140.76.229 |
| 04:27:58 | dirkx | ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: |
| 04:28:00 | dirkx | rikers.org. 2D IN NS NS1.GRANITECANYON.COM. |
| 04:28:02 | dirkx | rikers.org. 2D IN NS NS2.GRANITECANYON.COM. |
| 04:28:05 | dirkx | ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: |
| 04:28:06 | dirkx | NS1.GRANITECANYON.COM. 2D IN A 205.166.226.38 |
| 04:28:09 | dirkx | NS2.GRANITECANYON.COM. 2D IN A 64.63.77.89 |
| 04:28:14 | BZFlag | see that line: rikers.org. 2D IN A 209.140.76.229 ? |
| 04:28:23 | BZFlag | notice that the time never changes? |
| 04:28:42 | BZFlag | notice that it still shows up if you don't recurse? |
| 04:29:06 | BZFlag | notice that I never in the history of rikers.org had a 2D ttl? |
| 04:29:19 | BZFlag | that record is CREATED by the HOST record in whois. |
| 04:29:26 | BZFlag | the one that is wrong. |
| 04:30:21 | BZFlag | *.gtld-servers.net only have A records for nameservers |
| 04:30:28 | dirkx | Those 2 days might be in rfc2870 or there about as the value in case of no ns/soa. |
| 04:30:32 | BZFlag | well as far as I know anyway. |
| 04:31:11 | BZFlag | that entry has been there for months while my name server were up. |
| 04:31:35 | BZFlag | it makes no differece whatsoever if my nameservers are up or not. |
| 04:31:52 | BZFlag | the root servers still give out that address directly with a ttl of 2 days |
| 04:32:43 | dirkx | No - propably not - see the ops guidelines. If your change of NS goes in -and- the serial is higher then it get's updated within a cycle. |
| 04:32:46 | BZFlag | what's your nameserver? and what's the ttl set to? try an A dig on yours and you will get the 2d ttl |
| 04:33:41 | BZFlag | regardless of what the IN A is in your domain and regardless of the ttl in your domain, you will get an A record back from gtld with 2d ttl and the address listed in whois. |
| 04:34:09 | BZFlag | in fact the IN A in your domain might as well not exist for listed public name servers. |
| 04:34:17 | BZFlag | gtld overrides them all. |
| 04:35:48 | andersee | i.e. Host records are trump cards.... |
| 04:37:03 | andersee | BZFlag: btw, when I upgraded my kernel on winder it didn't look like the bzflagd script restarted things.... |
| 04:37:24 | dirkx | Hmm - you mean for the A of an registered NS of the domain ? whois siegert.com -> ns1.sigz.net/ns2.webweaving.org |
| 04:37:35 | dirkx | whois -h whois.networksolutions.com HOST ns2.webweaving.org |
| 04:37:43 | dirkx | [No name] (NS69668-HST) |
| 04:37:44 | dirkx | Hostname: NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG |
| 04:37:44 | dirkx | Address: 195.58.135.195 |
| 04:37:44 | dirkx | System: ? running ? |
| 04:37:57 | dirkx | NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG. 1D IN A 66.124.87.42 |
| 04:38:35 | dirkx | (note that to try the above for ns1.sigz.net you'll need a dig which gets the RR record and DNSsec). |
| 04:38:58 | BZFlag | dig @a.gtld-servers.net NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG shows: |
| 04:39:05 | BZFlag | NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG. 172800 IN A 195.58.135.195 |
| 04:39:49 | BZFlag | timr@localhost:~$ host NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG |
| 04:39:49 | BZFlag | NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG A 195.58.135.195 |
| 04:40:26 | BZFlag | so you are dreaming about that 66.124.87.42 ... it's not visible anywere other that on your nameserver. |
| 04:40:44 | dirkx | Weird- what SOA does it have ? I get '1D' ? what is the IP for a.gtld-servers.net ? I have 192.12.94.31 or 192.35.51.31 alternating ? |
| 04:40:47 | BZFlag | try host lookups anywhere on the net. |
| 04:41:10 | BZFlag | that's the point. there IS NO SOA for listed public nameservers. |
| 04:41:53 | BZFlag | I get one back, true. but no nameserver ever uses it for IN A resolution as the root name servers override it. |
| 04:42:09 | dirkx | Sorry - who is auth for the soa ? I.e. |
| 04:42:21 | dirkx | dig @a.gtld-servers.net NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG [ SOA | A | NS ] |
| 04:42:23 | BZFlag | for which? |
| 04:42:51 | BZFlag | so SOA for NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG |
| 04:43:01 | BZFlag | you mean WEBWEAVING.ORG ? |
| 04:44:33 | BZFlag | root servers don't recurse so no SOA shows up. |
| 04:45:07 | BZFlag | dig on non-root shows: WEBWEAVING.ORG. 86400 IN SOA ns.WEBWEAVING.ORG. dirkx.WEBWEAVING.ORG. 2001072219 3600 1800 604800 86400 |
| 04:45:59 | BZFlag | so, in short. if you had a web server running at http://ns2.WEBWEAVING.ORG/ ... |
| 04:46:43 | BZFlag | you would be running it on 66.124.87.42 but anyone trying to get there would be going to 195.58.135.195 |
| 04:47:12 | BZFlag | not a problem for you as you are likely not trying to run a web server on your nameserver (at least not by name) |
| 04:47:44 | BZFlag | but it IS a problem for me as the invalid HOST record is the same as my domain. |
| 04:48:09 | BZFlag | now do you get what I'm trying to explain? |
| 04:49:15 | BZFlag | wonders what's to stop some schmoe from registering a garbage domain with a nameserver of www.microsoft.com (127.0.0.1) or some other invalid IP ? |
| 04:50:01 | dirkx | I am slowly getting what you are thinking - but not quite sure that it is correct - digging through the RFC now to find out what exactly the behavour is to be. |
| 04:50:54 | BZFlag | but you do see that your example machine NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG is visible as 195.58.135.195 not 66.124.87.42 to the world at large? |
| 04:51:05 | dirkx | Not sure i am getting your reference to 66.124.87.42 at all - ns2.webweaving.org-(a)->195.58.135.195 |
| 04:51:29 | BZFlag | you pasted: <dirkx> NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG. 1D IN A 66.124.87.42 |
| 04:51:34 | dirkx | Where would the 66.124.x.y come from ? |
| 04:51:56 | BZFlag | so where did that come from? |
| 04:52:31 | dirkx | I must be blind :-) let me backtrace. |
| 04:54:00 | BZFlag | dig NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG @NS1.SIGZ.NET shows: |
| 04:54:07 | BZFlag | NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG. 86400 IN A 66.124.87.42 |
| 04:54:18 | BZFlag | but nobody cares. |
| 04:55:42 | BZFlag | cause a dig on any other name server in the world will give the 195.58.135.195 address |
| 04:56:11 | dirkx | Ah - I see what you mean - sorry - my fault -that is because of the RR record which is needed for the dnssec. My bad - webweaving.org is not a good example as it uses RR and NAPTR referral. |
| 04:57:45 | BZFlag | what should "host NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG" show? |
| 04:58:15 | BZFlag | your nameserver has 66.124.87.42 but the rest of the world has 195.58.135.195 |
| 04:58:56 | dirkx | Depending on your version of bind and your source-ip 66.124.87.42, 192.71.228.17 or 209.133.83.22, 195.58.135.195 |
| 05:01:16 | BZFlag | then it's ok that "host NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG" and "host NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG NS1.SIGZ.NET" have different values? |
| 05:02:08 | BZFlag | my source ip has not changed, nor has my version of bind. |
| 05:02:25 | dirkx | yes - until we are done with the NAPTR experiments for urn: resolution. |
| 05:02:59 | BZFlag | I submit that no matter what your nameserver says, NS2.WEBWEAVING.ORG -> 66.124.87.42 |
| 05:03:17 | BZFlag | always. from any IP. for any version of requesting software. |
| 05:03:57 | BZFlag | the only exception is if they ask your nameserver directly. indirect queries will never get to your nameserver. |
| 05:04:06 | dirkx | So for rikers.org -> network solutions has it down as "RIKERS12-HST" -> 209.140.76.229 ? |
| 05:04:43 | BZFlag | yes. which is not try, but I am unable to get them to remove the record as there is a domain listing that as a nameserver. |
| 05:04:49 | BZFlag | s/try/true/ |
| 05:06:10 | BZFlag | which domain I do not own, and the owner can not seem to get it changed either as he changed email addresses and does not have (or at least does not remember having) a web login /password. |
| 05:06:26 | BZFlag | whois hains.net |
| 05:06:50 | andersee | BZFlag: can the owner let you host hains.net for a while? |
| 05:07:11 | andersee | oh. |
| 05:07:14 | andersee | No passwd |
| 05:07:19 | BZFlag | right |
| 05:07:40 | andersee | Time for a 2 hour phone call to dot Commie people |
| 05:07:41 | BZFlag | but I own rikers.org |
| 05:08:15 | dirkx | Normal procedure with networksolutions would be to register a new host template for ns.rikers.org -> new IP - and then update your domain template with the new handle |
| 05:08:19 | BZFlag | I'm tempted to add www.networksolutions.com (127.0.0.1) to my domain. |
| 05:08:53 | BZFlag | dirkx: it's not my domain that's the problem. |
| 05:08:59 | BZFlag | feels like a broken record |
| 05:09:20 | andersee | Sounds like a pretty cool DOS attack. |
| 05:09:47 | BZFlag | yep. and I see no way to stop it other than expecting nsi to grow a brain. |
| 05:10:25 | andersee | Time for a 2 hour phone call to dot Commie people... |
| 05:10:32 | BZFlag | ugh. |
| 05:11:14 | andersee | I bet you a million dollars that they are "experiencing unusual call volume at this time..." |
| 05:11:21 | dirkx | BZFlag: -sorry to sound repetitive- :-) but what you are describing is not exactly new - and there is a well known solution to it. The only issue I could see in your case is that when the domain was moved to dotster something strange happened - esp. if the move was done automatic - and the dotster folks did not confirm the NS change. |
| 05:11:28 | BZFlag | it took an hour and a half to get dirkx to understand, and he has a brain. |
| 05:11:45 | dirkx | Actually - instead of spending two hours on the phone - send a fax - we handle those way quicker :-) |
| 05:11:59 | BZFlag | I think 2 hours for the phone call is under the mark by a wide margin. |
| 05:12:36 | BZFlag | "we? ? |
| 05:13:02 | BZFlag | dirkx: so what's the "well known solution to it" ? |
| 05:13:24 | BZFlag | the goal here is to remove rikers.org as a nameserver in whois |
| 05:14:28 | | somebody said dirkx was sorry - I cannot confirm that. When I do a dig at any of the rootservers; I get back only an NS - no A, SOA or CNAME: |
| 05:14:28 | BZFlag | dirkx ? |
| 05:14:42 | dirkx | If they are with the same registar - fill out a fresh host template - with the right IP and the name; say ns.rikers.org. You get a new handle. Use that handle + the IP on your update request for the domain. This goes OK until such moment that another person ALSO uses your IP - and submits a IP <-> ns.yourdomain.com. Then redo from start. |
| 05:14:42 | | BZFlag: I forgot dirkx |
| 05:14:42 | BZFlag | ibot forget dirkx |
| 05:15:10 | BZFlag | ns.rikers.org is fine... |
| 05:15:27 | BZFlag | I need to remove the rikers.org host record from whois. try again? |
| 05:15:36 | dirkx | I am just skimming through the ops guidelines to see what needs to happen if you relocated the domain - and when the host is still with the old one. |
| 05:15:51 | BZFlag | the host is not with the old one |
| 05:16:01 | BZFlag | it's with dotster. |
| 05:16:13 | andersee | But dotster won't let you change it? |
| 05:16:25 | BZFlag | but it's _referenced_ by a domain at networksolutions. |
| 05:16:39 | BZFlag | so doster submits the delete and nsi adds it back. |
| 05:17:15 | dirkx | Right - so you cannot remove the host _template_. Until hains.net releases it. But what you need is making sure that it does not get in your waters. |
| 05:17:19 | BZFlag | or perhaps they just deny the delete... |
| 05:17:41 | BZFlag | there is no way to stop it getting in my waters. |
| 05:17:52 | BZFlag | at least not that I can see. |
| 05:17:52 | dirkx | BZFlag: it is not quite that simple nsi does not nessesarily add back what dotster left out - I am just trying to figure out what exactly it is they are supposed to do. |
| 05:18:27 | BZFlag | I own "rikers.org" but I can't set the IP because someone else has a nameserver registered. |
| 05:18:44 | dirkx | BZflag; if there is no way of getting it out of your water - then the register/registar procedure needs to go back to the drawing board :-) And the good part is that the verisign folks handling the registar side are very cluefull and very quick. |
| 05:18:46 | BZFlag | as andersee said, great DOS attack. |
| 05:19:04 | BZFlag | ok, so suggestions? |
| 05:19:22 | BZFlag | I need to modify hains.net to remove the rikers.org reference. |
| 05:19:30 | BZFlag | but I have no access to the domain. |
| 05:19:44 | BZFlag | I _do_ own rikers.org though. |
| 05:20:19 | andersee | It seems you should have the power to unconditionally modify all host records assigned to your domain... |
| 05:20:45 | dirkx | Make sure your DNS is up during the next update cycle and can be queried by the registAr. Make sure that NS1/2.granitecanyon.com have host templates and that their IP and their handle (name optional) is nicely in the template - and then let's see what comes out of the next update cycle - 2am EST. |
| 05:21:16 | dirkx | And of course have an authoritative A or an authoritative 'nope' for rikers.org :-) :-). |
| 05:21:43 | andersee | BZFlag: perhaps you might want to get granitecanyon out of the loop for the moment due to their latency... |
| 05:21:51 | BZFlag | I changed the NS pointers for rikers.org as I don't know when granitecanyon will come back |
| 05:22:21 | dirkx | That will cost you two more 24 hour cycles propably. |
| 05:22:27 | dirkx | No that is wrong - no same delay. |
| 05:22:27 | BZFlag | and the new one ( andersee's ns1.codepoet.org ) has soa and a records setup. |
| 05:23:05 | andersee | I had had horrid problems with granitecanyon when I was setting up utahredcross.com/org |
| 05:23:30 | dirkx | I _do_ own rikers.org though. |
| 05:23:30 | BZFlag | andersee: hey, who's problems are we discussing now? ;-) |
| 05:23:55 | andersee | No problem anymore. Just letting you know why I avoid them now. |
| 05:23:59 | andersee | :) |
| 05:24:00 | BZFlag | dirkx: huh? |
| 05:24:22 | BZFlag | dirkx: so who is "we" ? |
| 05:26:07 | dirkx | My fault - figure of speech coming back from an old live. My real world job now is dirkx@covalent.net/dirkx@apache.org - which has nothing to do with the evil empires. |
| 05:27:28 | BZFlag | ah |
| 05:28:55 | dirkx | Eeeekkk! Just realized someting. |
| 05:29:57 | dirkx | You might have to backpedal; cause you are at dotster your new host records *must* be created and have a handle before you can actually list them as primary/secondary. |
| 05:31:10 | dirkx | Though you should not need it (hains.net may) if you need to send a fax - if you registered as a private person - just include in the fax a copy of your passport/drivers license and a copy of a utility bill with the address as on the record. That makes sure it goes quick. |
| 05:38:47 | dirkx | Assuming you where at networksolutions first - and used an automatic procedure to move to dotster; what happened when you send a change request for HOST rikers.org on the nic as the technical contact for rikers.org ? I can actually see a case not accounted for when domains move register. |
| 05:40:25 | dirkx | (You are using the email interface? the web interface seems to lack some vital things). |
| 05:46:09 | dirkx | x |
| 05:47:47 | dirkx | Ah - good news; you can leave networksolutions totally out. dotster.com handles the domain name -and- servername rikers.org. So you only have to deal with them - and they can sort if out with networksolutions and/or the registAr. |
| 05:48:13 | BZFlag | they claim nsi will not let them remove the host record because it is in use |
| 05:51:58 | BZFlag | email interface at dotster? or at networksolutions ? |
| 05:52:05 | dirkx | That is fine - but *they* have rikers.org both as a domain name and a servername. So it is in their ballpark to work with networksolutions to fix this. They (dotster) are in their righ to ask you to assert yourself as the owner of rikers.org of course. Which takes a bloody fax or letter with a signature. I can get you a template if you need one. You need to go to the internic delegation server to double check that. In the meantime you can change the rikers.org |
| 05:52:36 | BZFlag | I use email forms at networksolutions, but only the web at dotster. don't know of an email interface to dotster. |
| 05:52:48 | dirkx | Dotster. Internic has them accountable for both the servername and the domainname. Meanwhile you can get hainz.net to work with his register to get that sorted out. |
| 05:53:16 | dirkx | Aye - let me check out if dotsters interface allows for such things. Some register.com's are stupid enough not to have a UI for this. |
| 05:53:19 | BZFlag | dirkx: yeah, he's working on it, but not motivated to move quickly. |
| 05:55:23 | BZFlag | wonders where dirkx is checking for dotster email interface... |
| 05:55:35 | dirkx | That is ok - you can fix it without him in any case. Plus i fully expect the next update cycle - when your NS-es are running and have an authoritative answer for rikers.org - to spot the issue at hand. Meanwhile just for kicks - you could throw a spanner in the works by registering a hosttemplate for the -same- IP but wiht a new name atop the current rikers.org host template :-) |
| 05:56:05 | dirkx | BZFlags - we.. at dotster.com of course :-) |
| 05:58:47 | dirkx | Shame - nope - no way of looking at that - need a valid account :-(. |
| 06:00:17 | dirkx | e.g. siegert.com used have an NS called ns1/2.siegert.com; which got overwritten by webweaving.org which got partially overwritten by sigz.net. |
| 06:00:25 | GoRK | hello |
| 06:01:27 | GoRK | so much dns |
| 06:01:31 | | up yours |
| 06:01:31 | GoRK | what is up? |
| 06:01:50 | BZFlag | GoRK: did you get my email about removing your nameserver you added for me? |
| 06:02:12 | BZFlag | it did not add correctly, so I need you to nuke it asap. |
| 06:02:36 | BZFlag | dirkx: this in another issue with the IP for my new server. ;-) |
| 06:02:39 | raybass | slaps Russ around with a large trout |
| 06:02:42 | GoRK | ahh no i did not get it yet |
| 06:02:54 | BZFlag | please nuke the reference. k? |
| 06:03:02 | GoRK | i did not get it. what email did you send it to? yes ill delete it right now |
| 06:03:17 | BZFlag | the email off whois. |
| 06:03:27 | GoRK | johnl@blurbco.com? |
| 06:03:53 | BZFlag | johnl@blurbco.com yes |
| 06:04:11 | dirkx | Eeekkkk. This is capital stupid - if a domain is moved to another registar then the old one no longer needs to update it but can defer it to the other. No wonder they give you the run around. They just wait for your NS to come back up and can just sit back until then as there is technically nothing wrong until then. Nice loophole in the rules. |
| 06:04:15 | GoRK | hrm i got no email :( |
| 06:04:18 | BZFlag | ibot nslookup ns1.rikers.org.letstalkbusinesses.com |
| 06:04:18 | | ns1.rikers.org.letstalkbusinesses.com is 166.70.15.250 |
| 06:05:01 | GoRK | wow that is totally inept. they didnt say to suffix a period and i added no records on my NS |
| 06:05:43 | BZFlag | GoRK: heh, so you see my issue. ;-) |
| 06:06:11 | GoRK | sure enough it added like that. argh how stupid |
| 06:06:15 | BZFlag | dirkx: they did move the host record when the domain got moved. I don't think that's the issue. |
| 06:06:25 | dirkx | The wonders of $ORIGIN and the trailing dot :-) always gets me too (esp. when you add individual TTLs etc to a record) |
| 06:06:36 | BZFlag | it's that another domain which I do not control has the domain name listed as a nameserver. |
| 06:07:01 | BZFlag | dirkx: that's not a host in his domain. it's a host record in whois. |
| 06:07:22 | BZFlag | so not an $ORIGIN problem. (though it looks like one. ;-) |
| 06:07:33 | GoRK | BZFlag: it's gone. apparently that interface only lets me create NS A records in domains i control... damn but if it doesnt actually *say* that anywhere |
| 06:07:47 | BZFlag | GoRK: thanx. that's what I expected. |
| 06:08:25 | dirkx | (back to the domain move) Well - dotster has it - and the internic agrees. But propably becuase there was no reachable NS at the time there is still one left in the networksolutiosn database - which won't be spotten now that there is no NS left. And in any case - that is up to dotster to fix :-) |
| 06:08:35 | BZFlag | wonders how long it will be till dotster learns that one is deleted... |
| 06:09:08 | GoRK | well it says "Create nameserver records use <This form>" and they arent associated under domains |
| 06:09:15 | dirkx | 12 hours at th least (minimum allowed by the ops guidelines). You *can* hack it so that it is exactly 12 hrs. |
| 06:09:58 | GoRK | i guess it just adds them under the first domain you associate the nameserver with |
| 06:10:44 | BZFlag | dirkx: where do you see the networksolutions entry? |
| 06:11:20 | dirkx | You mean RIKER12-HST ? |
| 06:11:38 | BZFlag | this issue has been in exitance for 3 weeks now and there has been live NS up until tonight. |
| 06:11:42 | dirkx | whois nameserver <>/ whois -h whois.netwr.. HOST <> |
| 06:12:33 | dirkx | Ah - good - so they will already have it flagged in all likely hood. What happened when you (naughtily) tried to update it with Netsol ? (you should not of course - but still) |
| 06:13:01 | BZFlag | dirkx: still no reply from that one. |
| 06:13:06 | dirkx | I mean the domain template RIKERS12-HST |
| 06:13:14 | dirkx | What is the trackign # ? did you get one ? |
| 06:13:24 | BZFlag | the host template you mean? |
| 06:13:54 | BZFlag | I did not try a domain template at netsol |
| 06:14:02 | dirkx | yep. I am prepared to bet that they would not instantl spot that it should have gone to dotster. |
| 06:14:11 | BZFlag | the host template went to /dev/null it appears. |
| 06:14:30 | BZFlag | I did not get a reply. |
| 06:14:41 | dirkx | But dotster has a valid host template for rikers.com which points to the right place ? right ? |
| 06:14:51 | BZFlag | I did get the bcc one I sent to myself. |
| 06:15:05 | BZFlag | .org, and it points to the wrong place. |
| 06:15:30 | BZFlag | there is no "right place" as I intend to use ns1.rikers.org for nameserver now. |
| 06:15:39 | dirkx | --> /dev/null - nope - that is not possible :-) so it has ended up with the special cases then (assuming your mail worked). |
| 06:16:14 | BZFlag | don't numbers get sent out for special cases too? |
| 06:16:20 | dirkx | That is ok - I just want to suggest to have a rikers.org domain template in there pointing to something whcih is not going to have something else pointing to it - so it can be deleted uncontestded. |
| 06:16:59 | dirkx | Numbers for special cases are not instantly send out - but a few hours later. Should not be more than a day though. If that is the case - they may have forwarded the message to dotster. Who seems to be not to adept at this email thing. |
| 06:17:00 | BZFlag | that's why rikers.org (domain) does not have rikers.org as a nameserver now. |
| 06:17:20 | BZFlag | heh, _that_ I can believe. ;-) |
| 06:17:56 | dirkx | No - that cannot be. They should still have send you a tracking number. |
| 06:19:46 | BZFlag | hmm.. perhaps it's cause it's headed to @rikers.org, the mailserver on that end might be looping on the old IP. |
| 06:20:08 | BZFlag | as the NS is down, it might not find my MX |
| 06:20:54 | dirkx | You can of course be very rude and simply fill out http://www.netsol.com/en_US/makechanges/fax/hostform.html and wack it. Which they either will do - or take up with dotster - either way it fixes your problem. Is a bit unfriendly for hains.net :-) |
| 06:21:20 | dirkx | If you want to I can do a quick test - and see what you get back. What is a functional email for you ? |
| 06:21:21 | BZFlag | hains.net is down anyway |
| 06:21:35 | BZFlag | TimR@Debian.org |
| 06:21:52 | BZFlag | oh, at rikers ... tim@rikers.org |
| 06:23:08 | BZFlag | I'm getting email, but no idea if it's all of it. |
| 06:23:43 | BZFlag | bbiab |
| 06:24:12 | GoRK | BZFlag: sorry about the boo-boo |
| 06:26:06 | dirkx | What is your NIC handle at netsol ? |
| 06:26:42 | GoRK | BZFlag: i had to email bulkregister about another issue i was having with nameservers (i have a domain that has a registered nameserver that has no hostname... ie it is just something.com.. and i cant see/change it (: |
| 06:26:55 | GoRK | BZFlag: so i also asked them about their wording on that form |
| 06:27:07 | BZFlag | back... GoRK: no problem. yours is the least of my worries. =( |
| 06:27:37 | GoRK | BZFlag: well it is likely preventing you from registering another ns with that ip at any rate ... |
| 06:27:52 | BZFlag | this is another issue, there is a host whois record for rikers.org (not ns1.rikers.org) listed with a different address than the correct one for rikers.org |
| 06:28:22 | GoRK | oh that is totally the same problem i am having with this other domain! |
| 06:28:30 | BZFlag | GoRK: true, but I can do that later. I've got DNS on ns1.codepoet.org (hi erik!) |
| 06:28:50 | BZFlag | GoRK: domain? |
| 06:28:54 | GoRK | fattyco.org |
| 06:29:03 | BZFlag | dirkx: TR4014 |
| 06:29:34 | GoRK | the only difference is that the ns record is still relevant at this point. it is likely going to move in a month or two though and i have no control over the record |
| 06:31:12 | BZFlag | GoRK: if you remove the fattyco.org nameserver entry from fattyco.org whois, does the host record go away? |
| 06:31:51 | GoRK | BZFlag: i dont know. i dont think so. they are seperate records i believe |
| 06:32:27 | BZFlag | you should be able to delete the host record (or they can anyway) as long as you remove it from all whois records. |
| 06:32:48 | GoRK | yeah well the problem is that it's not showing up on the form for me to delete |
| 06:32:55 | BZFlag | I expect some registrars might do that for you when you remove the last nameserver reference. |
| 06:33:23 | GoRK | it's not showing up on the form at all :) |
| 06:33:41 | BZFlag | you probably will not be able to delete it now anyway as it is referenced. |
| 06:33:58 | BZFlag | does bulkregister have an email interface? ;-) |
| 06:39:04 | GoRK | nope i dont believe they do ... or it is highly super secret |
| 06:40:01 | dirkx | BZflag: bulkregister as afaik no email interface. they do have a web based programmatic one if I recall for their isp cohorts. |
| 06:40:38 | andersee | You could call the Psychic Friends Network and find out for sure. :) |
| 06:40:52 | GoRK | well they have 3 web interfaces |
| 06:41:22 | GoRK | two of them are for full dns service .. ie you dont run your own ns servers |
| 06:41:33 | dirkx | Good nite all - signing off |
| 06:41:37 | GoRK | later |
| 06:41:50 | BZFlag | night, thanx. |
| 06:42:20 | BZFlag | the issue is that the auto web forms only ask for host name and then do a nslookup. |
| 06:43:12 | BZFlag | this is fine for names without existing host whois records, but always gets the host record ip instead of the IN A ip for entries with existing host records. |
| 06:43:48 | andersee | They should let you enter IPs, and create 30 different host forms for a single IP if you want |
| 06:43:57 | jacques | hi :-) |
| 06:44:40 | BZFlag | no, I don't agree. I think they should just list IPs for nameservers in whois. |
| 06:44:50 | dirkx | andersee: you can (see webweaving.org/siegert.org et.al.) the last one just overwrites (keyed on IP). That is why there is no owner handle in the host record (whois PE xxx / whois HO xxx). Ah well good nite. |
| 06:45:52 | dirkx | BZFlag - they *should(must)* do -see whois -h whois.networksolutions.com siegert.com. But not all registars are yet properly set up. |
| 06:46:15 | andersee | nite |
| 06:47:30 | BZFlag | dirkx: I mean intead of the hostname |
| 06:48:08 | BZFlag | let's say ns1.example.com has IN A records for both 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.2 - that is valid, |
| 06:48:31 | BZFlag | but only one will actually get listed in root for a ns1.example.com entry in whoid |
| 06:48:34 | BZFlag | er whois. |
| 06:49:15 | dirkx | BZFlag - the hostname is not *supposed* to be in the whois record (see the ops guidelines at icann/internic). the refernce is by IP - whcih is then the key to lookup the host. The IP is what counts. a whois on networksolutions shows it fine; but unfortunately not all registars have yet fixed all kinks. Partly because glue records need to be post processed. |
| 06:49:18 | BZFlag | so my point is that whois info should ONLY show IPs as that is what is really listed in root servers is it not? |
| 06:49:58 | BZFlag | your example whois shows both names and IPs for me. |
| 06:50:02 | dirkx | they could only list IP; they may also give you the name. The name is for verification only. |
| 06:50:08 | dirkx | Yes - that is part of a sanity check. |
| 06:51:47 | dirkx | (not just a sanity check of course - you also need them for a stand alone application of course.) Anyway - more tomorrow. going to bed :-) |
| 06:54:59 | BZFlag | dirkx: got your email, sent it in. |
| 08:41:58 | scanline | GoRK: are you here? |
| 08:42:18 | GoRK | yep |
| 08:42:20 | scanline | GoRK: I'm working on pgtuxphone, and think i found a bug in tuxphone, wondering if you've seen it too |
| 08:42:30 | GoRK | does it involve ringing? |
| 08:42:34 | scanline | no |
| 08:42:46 | scanline | i haven't even tested the incoming calls on this thing yet :) |
| 08:42:49 | GoRK | there might be some bugs with ringing... the local static doesnt seem to be holding |
| 08:43:02 | scanline | I've got an onscreen keypad that sends a dial command when you press a button |
| 08:43:15 | GoRK | i dont know enough about compilers to know why |
| 08:43:17 | scanline | normally it works fine, but after pressing several buttons quickly, the dsp resets |
| 08:43:52 | GoRK | ok you have to make sure a sanity check command gets sent every second no matter what other commands you are sending |
| 08:44:08 | GoRK | so.. just add a sanity check after the dtmf dial command |
| 08:44:15 | scanline | ok |
| 08:44:17 | GoRK | send one after each button press. it is safe |
| 08:44:29 | scanline | pgtuxphone is coming along well |
| 08:44:37 | GoRK | we really need an event loop that works better |
| 08:44:46 | GoRK | for tuxphone |
| 08:44:50 | scanline | right |
| 08:45:22 | GoRK | one that can prioritize the sanity commands to happen once every second and still react fast enough to process other data |
| 08:45:54 | GoRK | there will be some other things we have to run in loops too.. such as the parallel set detection (for hold and line-in-use) |
| 08:46:07 | scanline | ok |
| 08:46:26 | GoRK | that approach would clean out the hackiness in sending the sanity commands |
| 08:46:53 | scanline | here's the problem |
| 08:47:03 | scanline | right now sanity_check() is only called 3 places: |
| 08:47:12 | scanline | if the event loop is idle for 1 second, |
| 08:47:25 | scanline | and during the RSP_BTN and RSP_RING event handler |
| 08:47:59 | GoRK | who put it into rsp_ring? i didnt do that. that must be my problem with ringing |
| 08:48:05 | scanline | So, how about we take out those three, and have it sanity_check() every time it goes through the event loop? |
| 08:48:22 | scanline | or maybe check a timer so it doesn't sanity check too often... |
| 08:48:36 | scanline | say every time it goes through the loop and it has been at least 0.5 seconds since the last sanity check |
| 08:48:41 | GoRK | it should sanity check every second only.. priority over queue'd commands |
| 08:48:52 | scanline | ok |
| 08:48:55 | scanline | i can implement that |
| 08:49:06 | GoRK | any data should be queued by tuxphone in packets and sent between sanity checks |
| 08:49:50 | GoRK | or maybe a little easier.... send it if event loop is idle for one second and send it after every data packet we send up |
| 08:50:02 | scanline | that would cause infinite recursion |
| 08:50:11 | scanline | i think i tried it |
| 08:50:12 | GoRK | no i mean except for sanity checks |
| 08:50:15 | scanline | :) |
| 08:50:33 | scanline | any problem with sending them too often? |
| 08:51:24 | GoRK | yes. the button resonse time slows down and the system gets overloaded since it's udelay()'ing so much... communication with wheaties has to be kept as minimalistic as it can be |
| 08:51:33 | GoRK | resonse/response |
| 08:51:42 | scanline | ok |
| 08:51:50 | scanline | so how about this: |
| 08:52:02 | GoRK | inferno implements a queued write buffer and the event loop makes sure it sends sanity every second between commands |
| 08:52:05 | scanline | we always call sanity_check() if poll hits its 1 second timeout |
| 08:52:48 | GoRK | we dont want tuxphone client apps to have to do sanity checks (in fact they shouldnt write raw wheaties data anyway) |
| 08:52:54 | scanline | and if the event loop stays busy (doesn't timeout) we call it if it has been about a second since the last call |
| 08:53:12 | scanline | I know clients shouldn't do sanity checks |
| 08:53:52 | GoRK | whatever it takes to get sanity checks occuring once per second (or perhaps a bit more frequently) should be fine |
| 08:54:03 | scanline | ok. I think this will work... |
| 08:54:37 | GoRK | i mean if you send a dial event that's not a continuous tone and have the handler write a sanity check right after it writes the dial command then your bug will go away |
| 08:55:09 | scanline | but it would be better to get the event loop doing sanity checks correctly |
| 08:55:15 | GoRK | sure |
| 08:55:20 | scanline | And i don't think a buffer is necessary |
| 08:56:30 | GoRK | well after you go off into a function say that dials a number based on a string it has been passed, then we can conceivably be in that function for more than 1 second before we get back to the event loop itself... hence inferno's write buffer |
| 08:57:14 | scanline | ah... |
| 08:57:25 | scanline | that makes sense |
| 08:57:51 | GoRK | yes and what happens if you do something like hang up in the middle of the string dial? you have to be able to trap that and stop the dialing |
| 08:58:32 | scanline | wouldn't the DSP just ignore dialing when you hang up the phone? |
| 08:59:12 | GoRK | well obviously the dialing wouldnt do anything but i think it still executes the commands.. so it will take time |
| 08:59:16 | scanline | ok |
| 08:59:19 | scanline | how about this- |
| 08:59:21 | GoRK | if you picked the phone back up it would still be dialing |
| 08:59:55 | scanline | a replacement for wheaties_write() that the higher-level commands use, that would send sanity checks at least every second while writing a long string of commands |
| 09:00:16 | scanline | i guess then you'd run into problems processing the responses though... |
| 09:01:07 | GoRK | well |
| 09:01:14 | GoRK | hrm |
| 09:01:42 | scanline | looks like to do this right would mean a big rewrite of the main loop and all the DSP read/write code |
| 09:02:06 | GoRK | not really |
| 09:02:32 | GoRK | ok try this |
| 09:03:01 | GoRK | set a time variable everytime sanity check is sent |
| 09:03:35 | GoRK | everytime wheaties_write is called it checks if it's one second since it expired, if so, it writes a sanity check before it does the write |
| 09:03:47 | scanline | Ah. Make sanity_check a no-op if it's called to often, then sprinkle them everywhere? |
| 09:03:53 | scanline | :) |
| 09:03:58 | scanline | s/to/too/ |
| 09:04:12 | GoRK | no you'd only have to put it in wheaties_write |
| 09:04:24 | scanline | k |
| 09:04:36 | scanline | and the extra sanity response wouldn't clog up anything? |
| 09:04:50 | GoRK | well they should just be thrown away right now |
| 09:04:56 | scanline | ok |
| 09:05:33 | GoRK | you should be able to keep the sanity timer as a static local of the function that calls sanity check |
| 09:06:17 | scanline | Well, sanity_check needs to set the timer any time it's called, whether from wheaties_write or from the poll loop. The timer should only be checked in wheaties_write |
| 09:06:44 | GoRK | but make sure sanity_check doesnt call wheaties_write to do the write of the sanity cmd |
| 09:06:48 | scanline | if you use a timer on the call from the poll() loop, the poll timeout and the other timer could miss each other and make it delay for 2 seconds |
| 09:06:55 | scanline | right |
| 09:07:12 | GoRK | right ok. that should work very well and require minimal code changes |
| 09:07:27 | scanline | neat |
| 09:07:30 | scanline | hope it works... |
| 09:08:08 | GoRK | the only thing that i can see that would be wrong is if you sent wheaties_write way more data than could be written in one second all at once |
| 09:08:34 | scanline | I can't think of any reason that would happen though |
| 09:08:39 | GoRK | but if you do that, you're playing with fire :) |
| 09:08:57 | scanline | The speakerphone data is sent in small blocks, right? |
| 09:09:06 | GoRK | yes 22 bytes |
| 09:09:11 | scanline | k |
| 09:10:23 | GoRK | we should also be able to implement a similar solution for timed line status checks :) for hold or otherwise |
| 09:11:27 | GoRK | check line status every 2 seconds if call is on hold otherwise check every 5 or something similar |
| 09:17:21 | scanline | hmm |
| 09:21:13 | scanline | well, the dsp isn't resetting any more |
| 09:21:24 | GoRK | any other problems? |
| 09:21:37 | scanline | pgtuxphone isn't working for some reason |
| 09:21:51 | scanline | but i'm running "while true; do ./dial 8; done |
| 09:21:51 | scanline | " nd it's not crashing |
| 09:21:57 | scanline | s/nd/and/ |
| 09:22:05 | GoRK | is it dialing 8? |
| 09:22:09 | scanline | yes |
| 09:22:20 | scanline | it dials 8 several times, pauses, then repeats |
| 09:27:42 | scanline | oops. pgtuxphone didn't work because i was being dumb |
| 09:28:15 | GoRK | hahahaha i love despair, inc. |
| 09:28:22 | scanline | hehe |
| 09:28:24 | GoRK | some days i just want to buy all everything they sell |
| 09:28:48 | scanline | Well, pgtuxphone is working fine, and you can click the buttons as fast as you want and the DSP stays running |
| 09:28:53 | GoRK | "no. we wont share your email address with other companies. no one wants it anyway. GET OVER YOURSELF." |
| 09:29:00 | scanline | haha |
| 09:29:14 | scanline | Any reason not to commit this thing? |
| 09:29:26 | GoRK | nope |
| 09:29:58 | GoRK | im not too sure my callerid works in the special cases but it's mostly good |
| 09:30:17 | scanline | too bad I don't have caller ID on my line... |
| 09:30:29 | scanline | I'll have to get someone else to test the caller id code in pgtuxphone |
| 09:30:41 | GoRK | i can do it |
| 09:30:46 | GoRK | but it'll have to be tomorrow at least |
| 09:31:06 | scanline | I still think it would be cool to have a program that can simulate tuxphone without having a real phone line or DSP |
| 09:31:17 | scanline | it would be useful for testing telephony apps |
| 09:32:33 | scanline | Those bugs I fixed for Smartdata recently fixed some of the quirks in pgtuxphone too :) |
| 09:33:00 | GoRK | cool |
| 09:33:16 | GoRK | hey you dont happen to have support for non-rectangular windows do you? |
| 09:33:30 | scanline | nope |
| 09:33:39 | scanline | you mean popups, or normal apps? |
| 09:33:43 | GoRK | either |
| 09:33:48 | scanline | nope |
| 09:34:01 | GoRK | can the toolbar slide up macos style? |
| 09:34:10 | scanline | yes |
| 09:34:10 | GoRK | that would be keen eyecandy |
| 09:34:15 | scanline | hmm |
| 09:34:23 | scanline | shouldn't be too hard to code either |
| 09:34:41 | scanline | but it would probably be slow |
| 09:35:03 | GoRK | you can't draw into an offscreen buffer and blit or something? |
| 09:35:05 | scanline | i should probably send you a screenshot of the UI so far |
| 09:35:15 | scanline | I could do that |
| 09:35:17 | GoRK | post it on picogui.org :) |
| 09:35:30 | scanline | Maybe it's something to put in pgserver- smooth toolbar open/close |
| 09:36:19 | GoRK | window animations.. sure.. good for menus too |
| 09:36:22 | scanline | Right now it still looks kinda empty |
| 09:36:23 | scanline | yup |
| 09:36:30 | scanline | likes writing eye-candy code |
| 09:36:36 | GoRK | well cool id like to see a screenshot |
| 09:36:43 | scanline | I had some fun doing the drop-shadows for nifty3d :) |
| 09:36:47 | GoRK | yeah re: nifty3d or whatever it is |
| 09:38:17 | scanline | ok. The GUI's still in its early stages but i think a screenshot will help illustrate what i have planned |
| 09:39:01 | GoRK | you should check out the gui for gnophone also. |
| 09:39:52 | scanline | oh yeah, gnophone. I came across that the other day, need to try it out... |
| 09:40:09 | scanline | http://yoshi.picogui.org:10000/pgtuxphone-1.jpeg |
| 09:40:16 | GoRK | i am setting up an asterisk server soon i can give you an account on |
| 09:41:10 | GoRK | cool |
| 09:41:55 | scanline | nice |
| 09:42:28 | scanline | I'm planning on putting volume controls and speakerphone/hold/flash buttons next to the keypad |
| 09:42:49 | GoRK | you should make the dialed numbers in the biggest font on cyan or pastel green background with a 1px black border .. inverse VFD style |
| 09:42:52 | scanline | maybe there isn't much to the keypad, and i should combine the keypad and history into one thing |
| 09:43:44 | scanline | Well, most of that should be the theme's job... but it does make sense to use a huge font |
| 09:44:43 | scanline | I also want it to print "8 (303) 499-7111" instead of just "83034997111" |
| 09:45:09 | scanline | but i don't know if there's a way for it to figure out what part of the number is area code, what part is a outside line prefix, etc. |
| 09:48:12 | scanline | tries another approach |
| 09:49:01 | scanline | I bet a canvas widget could do that inverse VFD look pretty well :) |
| 09:49:40 | scanline | I also think that the history button isn't necessary... there's room on that keypad panel to stick a columned list with recent calls |
| 09:56:29 | GoRK | you know, onscreen keypad really isnt necessary either |
| 09:57:08 | scanline | it would be useful for using the phone via the network |
| 09:57:15 | scanline | :) |
| 09:57:38 | scanline | I didn't use Inferno much... what was it's phone app like? |
| 09:57:49 | GoRK | the whole thing was a phone app |
| 09:57:56 | scanline | well... |
| 09:58:05 | GoRK | whenever you picked up the phone you get a screen with the number you push in |
| 09:58:15 | GoRK | and a call status with timer |
| 09:58:25 | scanline | so, pretty much what the toolbar does now |
| 10:09:22 | GoRK | i just thought of something |
| 10:09:31 | GoRK | if you can get on a windows machine check out the interface to dialpad.com |
| 10:09:59 | scanline | I don't have a windows machine unless i reboot this one... do they have screenshots? |
| 10:10:19 | scanline | I've threw together a couple canvas commands and got a pretty nifty looking 'inverse VFD' display :) |
| 10:10:21 | GoRK | wait i dunno if they even do their free long distance thing anymore |
| 10:10:29 | BZFlag | nite |
| 10:14:34 | GoRK | www.blurbco.com/~gork/tuxscreen/dialpad.jpg |
| 10:15:03 | scanline | ah, that's neat |
| 10:15:26 | GoRK | buttons on the left can be replaced with "redial..." "history..." etc |
| 10:15:28 | GoRK | "setup..." |
| 10:15:50 | scanline | I was thinking of something where the call status, name, number, and timer are on that thin toolbar, and a larger optional one contains the other things |
| 10:15:52 | GoRK | callerid can pop up where it says "ready you may now dial... |
| 10:16:16 | scanline | it would be nice to have a fairly unobtrusive interface give you the basics, with a second panel to give you more buttons |
| 10:16:16 | GoRK | but that stuff needs to be up top where it is prominent. |
| 10:16:38 | scanline | Well, smaller toolbar, not small :) |
| 10:16:39 | GoRK | perhaps there are two views |
| 10:16:56 | scanline | Right now i've got this VFD-ish display on a 20-pixel font |
| 10:17:24 | GoRK | one toolbar view and one that expands into something similar to the dialpad type interface |
| 10:17:46 | GoRK | how about if it dropped down from the top of the screen rather than popping up from the bottom? |
| 10:17:50 | scanline | that would work |
| 10:18:33 | scanline | It's really easy to change what side of the screen it's on, so we could experiment with that |
| 10:20:11 | GoRK | yeah im thinking two views will be best.. a toolbar mini view and an expanded view that relocates critical info closer to the center of the screen |
| 10:20:59 | scanline | hmm... |
| 10:21:08 | scanline | i agree with that |
| 10:21:39 | scanline | but i think it would be less disorienting to the user if the mini view was a subset of the expanded view, so an extra panel appears rather than the whole thing reorganizing itself |
| 10:22:03 | GoRK | callerid should get cached too so if you make an outgoing call and it recognizes the number you dialed it prints the name from your phonebook... or if you change the name for a number you have in your phonebook, that will get printed instead of the regular callerid data |
| 10:22:10 | scanline | maybe the extra panel appears under the smaller view, pushing it nearer to the center |
| 10:22:31 | GoRK | perhaps, but stuff like windows media player reorginizes itself when you expand it and still seems to be consistent |
| 10:22:43 | scanline | mmmkay |
| 10:22:52 | GoRK | the problem lies with changing the location of input buttons not output windows |
| 10:23:09 | scanline | Then again, windows media player doesn't exactly have a well-liked UI :) |
| 10:25:10 | GoRK | the old media player (6) did the same thing and everybody liked its ui though |
| 10:25:38 | scanline | ok |
| 10:26:02 | GoRK | anyway.. whatever it doesnt make all taht much difference since we can always change it after the functionality gets in there |
| 10:26:44 | scanline | This is going to be a pretty nifty phone app :) |
| 10:27:21 | GoRK | some of the core functionality will involve logging incoming calls and outgoing calls name and number for instant redial and callerid stufs |
| 10:27:41 | scanline | right. It's going to need a database |
| 10:28:09 | scanline | I've got it putting call data into a structure, ready to be stuck in a database, but that's not going anywhere yet |
| 10:28:16 | GoRK | setup options for stuff like 'current area codes' etc |
| 10:28:20 | GoRK | err |
| 10:28:28 | GoRK | 'local area code' to deal with 7 digit dialing |
| 10:28:36 | GoRK | etc |
| 10:28:54 | GoRK | chopping off the 9 to recognize outgoing numbers against the db |
| 10:28:58 | GoRK | etc |
| 10:29:04 | scanline | Handling prefixes other than 9 |
| 10:29:11 | GoRK | yeah whatever |
| 10:29:11 | scanline | It's 8 here |
| 10:29:24 | GoRK | anyway it would display callerid info on incoming and outgoing calls if you had it |
| 10:30:03 | GoRK | outgoing if it recognized the number from your addressbook or if you dialed directly from the addressbook |
| 10:31:00 | GoRK | http://www.sleepycat.com/docs/ref/refs/embedded.html |
| 10:31:28 | scanline | Well, my goal in the short term is just to get pgtuxphone into some sort of usable state. Right now picogui's HTML support is higher priority for me than pgtuxphone. But, we definitely need to have a good design. And maybe some more coders :) |
| 10:32:27 | GoRK | sure |
| 10:32:33 | GoRK | i will learn picogui some day :) |
| 10:32:49 | scanline | You will be surprised how easy some things are |
| 10:33:14 | GoRK | http://freshmeat.net/projects/kekedb/ |
| 10:33:46 | scanline | Like to make this VFD-ish display, i just create a canvas widget, turn on PG_MAP_SCALE mapping, draw background and border, draw the text. It handles calculating sizes and redrawing things automatically |
| 10:34:11 | GoRK | you cant just make a blue textbox? |
| 10:34:23 | GoRK | or label or whatever? or does it really matter that much? :) |
| 10:34:35 | scanline | you can change the foreground color of a label widget |
| 10:34:47 | scanline | but the background is defined by a theme fillstyle |
| 10:35:15 | scanline | Well, ok, some things are easier than others :) |
| 10:35:58 | GoRK | oh hey this looks really nice: http://www.mirar.org/mird/ |
| 10:35:58 | scanline | PicoGUI's API really emphasizes separation of information and formatting |
| 10:36:34 | scanline | This phone DB should probably cooperate with the PIM somehow |
| 10:37:21 | GoRK | mirdThe Mird Database. |
| 10:37:21 | GoRK | A transaction based hash database. Perfect for those small |
| 10:37:43 | GoRK | embedded database needs in your project. A (potentially) good |
| 10:37:51 | GoRK | replacement |
| 10:38:04 | GoRK | argh this will *NOT* paste |
| 10:38:11 | scanline | Well, i'm reading the web page... |
| 10:38:13 | GoRK | for commercial use |
| 10:38:20 | GoRK | that is from a different website talking about it |
| 10:38:56 | scanline | licence probably isn't GPL compatible though |
| 10:39:12 | GoRK | for mird? |
| 10:39:17 | scanline | yes |
| 10:39:30 | scanline | "* If there has been changes made to the library, it may not be redestributed in any way, again of course this rule may be breaked with explicit permission. |
| 10:39:30 | scanline | " |
| 10:39:43 | GoRK | taht sucks |
| 10:40:04 | scanline | Also can't be used commercially without explicit permission |
| 10:40:13 | GoRK | oh well at least BerkelyDB is stable and used by everything anyway |
| 10:40:18 | scanline | yup |
| 10:40:29 | GoRK | that is probably the road ahead |
| 10:40:30 | GoRK | :) |
| 10:40:33 | GoRK | i gotta sleep |
| 10:40:38 | scanline | same here |
| 10:40:47 | GoRK | ok gonna do that now |
| 10:40:53 | GoRK | nite :) |
| 10:40:54 | scanline | after i fix up pgtuxphone a little more :) |
| 10:40:56 | scanline | good night |
| 10:41:05 | GoRK | catch ya tomorrow when im gonna be coding |
| 10:41:12 | GoRK | another lan party this weekend so should be fun |
| 10:41:12 | scanline | ok |
| 10:41:21 | scanline | ooh, lan party :) |
| 10:41:46 | scanline | i'm a little mad... my friends are having one next Tuesday to celebrate thanksgiving break, but my last day is Wednesday :( |
| 10:41:55 | GoRK | photos from former ones are at www.systemaddicts.net |
| 10:42:01 | GoRK | that sucks |
| 10:42:09 | scanline | yup. He won't move it either... |
| 10:42:42 | GoRK | my little brother is mad too because this one is just a few days before he gets done for thanksgiving break also |
| 10:43:05 | scanline | hehe |
| 10:43:22 | GoRK | ok, nite |
| 10:43:25 | scanline | might be worth starting a discussion on the tuxscreen mailing list about phone apps, to see what kind of features people want |
| 10:43:32 | scanline | anyway... nite |
| 10:43:43 | GoRK | heh that will be a can o worms |
| 10:43:47 | GoRK | theres already good stuff on the wiki |
| 10:43:55 | GoRK | enough to keep us busy for a long time |
| 10:43:59 | scanline | yeah |
| 11:14:53 | scanline | Code is in CVS, new screenshot on picogui.org |
| 11:14:56 | scanline | time for bed |
| 11:15:01 | scanline | is away: ZzZzZzZz |
| 11:53:24 | RedBaron | Hrm...anyone alive? Anyone get the latest buildroot? I just regot it all and the kernel failed to configure. |
| 11:59:19 | RedBaron | weird. in the make kernel section, when the makefile runs 'make oldconfig' in the kernel sources, the kernel config program half dies. It complaigns about not being able to reopen a pipe because the process on the other side died. |
| 11:59:28 | RedBaron | But if I run it manualy, it works. |
| 12:00:56 | Tangent | RedBaron : Sounds like it's running out of memory or something like that |
| 12:01:33 | RedBaron | Tangent: I doubt that. my swap is completely empty. |
| 12:02:39 | RedBaron | And...I have 159732K hard ram |
| 12:02:55 | Tangent | RedBaron : Yeah.. that should be fine... |
| 12:03:03 | RedBaron | I forget exactly what that is in meg..and I dont feel like figuring out the correct number so I dont make a fool of myself. :) |
| 12:03:42 | Tangent | RedBaron : I've decided that I'm not going to be using the correct SI units for memory.. They sound too silly |
| 12:03:46 | RedBaron | I just did that section of the makefile manualy...and restarted the make. its going fine now. |
| 12:04:14 | RedBaron | Tangent: Okay...whatcha going to use then? |
| 12:04:46 | Tangent | RedBaron : Oh.. just like normal.. I'm going to use incorrect values.. You have 159MB of RAM... plain and simple |
| 12:04:58 | RedBaron | Tangent: *chuckle* okay. |
| 12:05:03 | EGg0_ZzZzZz | is away: I'm reading a book. Do you remember books? |
| 12:05:11 | EGg0_ZzZzZz | is back (gone 00:00:08) |
| 12:05:19 | RedBaron | Hmm...books? |
| 12:05:29 | Tangent | RedBaron : They both meet at zero.. other than that.. who cares.. you have lots of free memory ;) |
| 12:05:59 | RedBaron | looks at his bookshelf with all the unused and dusty text books. also all the unread sci-fi books. |
| 12:06:07 | RedBaron | Tangent: *laugh* True. |
| 12:18:31 | RedBaron | So tangent, do you know anything about the 5V pcmcia hacks? |
| 12:18:56 | Tangent | RedBaron : Yep.. I know about both versions of the hack |
| 12:19:09 | RedBaron | And they work? |
| 12:20:58 | Tangent | RedBaron : Yep.. they both work.. |
| 12:21:30 | RedBaron | Cool. so whats the differences between the two? Anything real or just cosmetic? |
| 12:25:54 | Tangent | RedBaron : Well, the lucent version of the hack needs a couple of capacitors, and a transistor |
| 12:26:07 | Tangent | RedBaron : The GPSFan version of the hack just needs a switch |
| 12:26:37 | Tangent | RedBaron : If you were to attempt one, the GPSFan one is a hell of a lot simpler than the lucent one |
| 12:27:59 | Tangent | RedBaron : Here's the complicated version of the hack.. http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/TuxScreen/5VHack.html |
| 12:29:34 | Tangent | RedBaron : And here's the GPSFan version.... http://www.tuxscreen.net/download/schematics/5Vx2.jpg |
| 12:29:46 | MicroChip32 | Tangent: does the lucent one make one of the ports strictly 5v or does the modifyied port work for either/or |
| 12:30:39 | Tangent | MicroChip32 : The lucent one only affects the bottom port.. You can install a switch to make it switchable 3.3 or 5V... (I have two wires twisted together, wrapped up in insulation tape) |
| 12:31:03 | Tangent | MicroChip32 : The GPSFan hack can be done for both sockets and takes less components |
| 12:31:54 | RedBaron | Tangent: So why is the lucent one so complex? |
| 12:32:15 | Tangent | RedBaron : I think the guy who made it didn't have all the schematics that GPSFan made |
| 12:32:42 | RedBaron | Tangent: So GPS had two diodes and a switch? |
| 12:32:44 | MicroChip32 | Tangent: so either way you need a switch to make the modifyied port support both types |
| 12:32:51 | Tangent | RedBaron : Seems like the lucent guy worked from knowing the pinouts of the pcmcia socket.. and added the extra hardware to it, and found a 5V supply somewhere on the board |
| 12:33:04 | RedBaron | Tangent: Hmm..ok |
| 12:33:06 | Tangent | MicroChip32 : Yeah.. at the moment, manual switching is the only way to do it |
| 12:33:28 | RedBaron | Wonder what happens if you plug a 3.3v into a switched 5v. heh |
| 12:34:24 | Tangent | RedBaron : I haven't tried that yet... and have no plans to try it anytime soon ;) |
| 12:34:39 | RedBaron | Tangent: chuckle |
| 12:34:40 | Tangent | In theory, doing an AutoVCC hack isn't too difficult |
| 12:35:58 | EGg0 | is away: Zooming to school to fail one or two exams... if they quizzed me on computers, I'd pass... maybe. |
| 12:36:13 | EGg0 | is back (gone 00:00:07) |
| 12:36:35 | EGg0 | is away: I'm reading a book. Do you remember books? |
| 12:42:11 | RedBaron | Tangent: what are you using your second serial interface for? You did the sound hack with the second serial, right? |
| 12:42:36 | Tangent | RedBaron : That's right... I have X10 controller on one port, and homebuilt stuff on the other |
| 12:42:44 | RedBaron | Tangent: ah |
| 12:43:08 | Tangent | RedBaron : Specifically, this board here's attached to my second port.. http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/piccies/NewOffice/16.jpg |
| 12:43:11 | RedBaron | Tangent: the tux would make a great X10 controller |
| 12:43:20 | Tangent | RedBaron : Yep.. it does :) |
| 12:43:46 | Tangent | RedBaron : http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/TuxScreen/tux.jpg |
| 12:44:03 | Tangent | RedBaron : Software is still very much under development |
| 12:44:03 | RedBaron | cool |
| 12:44:15 | Tangent | RedBaron : Two mates coming round this weekend for a hack fest on it :) |
| 12:44:31 | RedBaron | Tangent: *nod* |
| 12:45:45 | RedBaron | Tangent: I think I'll just stick with the straight audio hack. I cant think of any reason to have two serial ports on my mobile tux. Unless I wanted to plunk down a lot of money for a GPS unit. of which I dont realy care about anyways. :) |
| 12:45:47 | Tangent | is glad he has friends who can code :) |
| 12:46:15 | RedBaron | Tangent: *laugh* I wish I had friends who could make me real circuit boards. ones better than my breadboard hacks. |
| 12:46:23 | Tangent | RedBaron : Nod.. I added the port because a.) I needed it and b.) The components to add it cost about $2, and I was making a PCB anyhow |
| 12:46:41 | Tangent | RedBaron : _You_ can make real circuit boards.. it's very easy |
| 12:47:02 | RedBaron | Tangent: I know..I made some in high school with a righ a teacher had setup. |
| 12:47:11 | RedBaron | Tangent: But how much does it cost to get setup? |
| 12:47:20 | Tangent | RedBaron : My PCB making setup cost me around $70 |
| 12:47:50 | RedBaron | Tangent: realy? hmm. were do you find the stuff? |
| 12:47:56 | Tangent | RedBaron : Included plastic trays, chemicals, gloves, saftey glasses, Copper clad board and transfer paper |
| 12:49:10 | Tangent | http://www.maplin.co.uk/products/product.php?cartid=0111161350551445124&moduleno=17352&manufacturer= |
| 12:49:23 | Tangent | Let's try that again |
| 12:49:54 | Tangent | http://www.maplin.co.uk/products/details.php?cartid=0111161350551445124&moduleno=17352&manufacturer= |
| 12:50:13 | Tangent | Hrm.. that's not very good... |
| 12:50:36 | Tangent | RedBaron : I got my stuff from Maplin electronics in the UK... |
| 12:50:45 | Tangent | RedBaron : I know you can get the same stuff in the states tho' |
| 12:50:51 | RedBaron | Tangent: *nod* sure. |
| 12:51:12 | Tangent | RedBaron : At least this link works... http://www.maplin.co.uk/Images/catalog/pictures-all/52MC49D.JPG |
| 12:51:20 | RedBaron | Tangent: whats the names the parts? So I can know what to search for in local places |
| 12:51:37 | RedBaron | That one looks like a kit |
| 12:52:59 | Tangent | RedBaron : Yep.. it was a kit that I got |
| 12:54:17 | Tangent | RedBaron : http://www.techniks.com/press-n-peel.html |
| 12:55:11 | RedBaron | Tangent: Hmm...wonder if a deskjet could print well enough on that |
| 12:55:49 | Tangent | RedBaron : It needs to be laser printer toner |
| 12:56:03 | RedBaron | Tangent: ok. well, there is a kinkos nearby. |
| 12:56:06 | Tangent | RedBaron : The heat from the iron melts the toner again, and bonds it to the PCB |
| 12:56:17 | RedBaron | Tangent: ah |
| 12:56:25 | Tangent | RedBaron : Then when you peel the paper off, the etch-resist stuff sticks to the toner. |
| 13:02:30 | RedBaron | Tangent: So what do you use to generate the PCB picture for printing? |
| 13:03:09 | Tangent | RedBaron : I used EaglePCB.. the evaluation copy will let you do 200 track boards |
| 13:03:19 | Tangent | RedBaron : It's not hard to find key generators etc tho ;) |
| 13:04:01 | Tangent | RedBaron : Sadly, the best I could find for Linux was something called PCB, which seemed to lack an autorouter |
| 13:04:07 | RedBaron | Tangent: yegawds...eagle? At my last job they used eagle and the engineer who was forced to use eagle hated it with a passion. Said it constantly screwed up on him. |
| 13:04:42 | Tangent | RedBaron : Really, I tried about 8 differend PCB layour packages.. Eagle was the only one I could use straight away |
| 13:05:14 | Tangent | RedBaron : Eagle also does back-annotation from board to schematic, which is dead useful |
| 13:05:38 | RedBaron | Tangent: Hmm..it could easily be a scale problem. the circuits he was doing were pretty complex. How big have you gone with it? |
| 13:05:46 | Tangent | RedBaron : Eagle also has a good component library |
| 13:06:02 | Tangent | RedBaron : That PCB I have connected to my second port is the only other board I've made |
| 13:06:17 | Tangent | RedBaron : Not particularly complicated.. only single sided boards so far |
| 13:07:44 | RedBaron | Tangent: *nod* His was double sided also. It was a motor controller which included a PIC to generate PWM's and the amplifiers and what not...uh.forget what kind of amp it was. Anyways, it had a decent amount of traces and components. |
| 13:08:12 | Tangent | RedBaron : Hrm.. probably about as complex as the board I made then.. That has Dual PICS, and PWM etc |
| 13:08:15 | MacAtack | ot but still fun: http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3089,00.html |
| 13:08:25 | MacAtack | its pics of the inside of the Xbox |
| 13:08:31 | RedBaron | Tangent: *shrug* could be. |
| 13:08:39 | Tangent | MacAtack : ah.. those again |
| 13:09:01 | MacAtack | Tangent: i take there are other /. readers here ;) |
| 13:09:09 | RedBaron | MacAtack: Yeah..saw that on /. earlier this morning |
| 13:09:17 | Tangent | MacAtack : Yep.. but it was on the register before it was on /. too |
| 13:34:56 | RedBaron | Hey gpsfan. |
| 13:35:09 | GPSFan | morinig! |
| 13:41:14 | RedBaron | Urk... |
| 13:41:15 | RedBaron | GPSFan: Question about your 5V pcmcia hack. Your schematic was the 5Vx2.jpg on the downloads page? |
| 13:41:25 | GPSFan | RedBaron: yep. |
| 13:42:03 | GPSFan | RedBaron: it shows how to convert each socket, you only need to do the one of your choice. |
| 13:55:28 | GPSFan | RedBaron: you get that, wierd stuff with IRC today. |
| 13:55:48 | RedBaron | GPSFan: Yes I am. I've lost connection for no apparent reason a couple of times today. |
| 13:56:07 | GPSFan | RedBaron: me too, ;>( |
| 13:56:50 | RedBaron | GPSFan: actualy..I'm having lots of network problems. Like I cant reach california (which I do mail there), google is now having problems, and this IRC is having lots of problems. But...my buildroot is still going with downloading some stuff. heh. weird |
| 14:30:27 | MicroChip32 | hey CosmicPenguin: i discovered the kernel doesnt appreciate it when drivers dont clean up after themselves. <<grin>> |
| 14:30:57 | CosmicPenguin | MicroChip32: Yeah, memory leaks are generally unwelcome..... |
| 14:31:25 | MicroChip32 | *ahem* yea, i ultimately crashed my whole filesystem this morning, had to fsck manually =| |
| 14:31:35 | CosmicPenguin | Did you lose data? |
| 14:32:23 | MicroChip32 | nothing critical (i think) but it ended up reporting discarded/unused blocks in several files, but nothing i recognized as anything i use |
| 14:33:05 | CosmicPenguin | MicroChip32: Good.... its good to give your hard drive an enema every once in a while |
| 14:33:19 | MicroChip32 | not like the several times over the last couple days ive had to rebuild my kernel from scratch because i kept nuking my .config file |
| 14:38:24 | CosmicPenguin | brb - Mozilla is freaking out |
| 14:40:29 | CosmicPenguin | Have they announced the comdex awards yet? |
| 14:41:57 | MicroChip32 | yea microsoft stole em all, go figure <snicker> |
| 14:42:37 | CosmicPenguin | Novel won best Networking Software???????? |
| 14:42:48 | MicroChip32 | gags |
| 14:43:55 | CosmicPenguin | Fujitusu won best of show with their Crusoe based laptop.... |
| 14:44:10 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: Sorry to interrupt but I have an idea for touchscreen calibration. |
| 14:44:16 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Fire away.... |
| 14:45:18 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: thanks, well the blkmtd.c interposes on block device drivers and provides an MTD interface, can't we interpose a driver on the touchscreen to convert raw to real coordinates? |
| 14:45:48 | MicroChip32 | anyone know how much current i could sourece off a pc parallel port ? could i suck 3ma from it ? |
| 14:46:11 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Thats not a bad idea..... |
| 14:48:46 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: we have at least five different UIs which all work with the current method and some of the (QTE, X) are big. I was thinking of something like "insmod tuxscreen device=ucb1200-ts x0=34 y0=45 x1=945 y1=940 average=2" |
| 14:49:06 | SpaceCoaster | So it could be configured at module load time. |
| 14:49:48 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: So you envision a calibration routine calibrating the values and then loading the module automatically? |
| 14:50:25 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Or we could just do a 'insmod tuxscreen device=ucb1200-ts', and then use the already familiar IOCTL interface |
| 14:50:38 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: either way, just brainstorming |
| 14:50:59 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: current ioctls definitely, that is most of the point! |
| 14:51:11 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Not that I want to rant about it too much, but this is absolutely one of the craziest things I have seen..... |
| 14:52:23 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: I agree but I guess it's not our code, RMK etc. wrote it so they can break it or make it useless as they see fit, I don't approve but I guess thats the bottom line. |
| 14:52:57 | CosmicPenguin | RMK doesn't use a GUI on his arm device? This breaks every single graphics engine in the world..... |
| 14:53:37 | SpaceCoaster | What are the IPAQ guys using, or are their touchscreens calibrated? |
| 14:54:02 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: The Ipaq doesn't use a UCB1200..... |
| 14:54:23 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: I am guessing that somebody tossed this at RMK, and he accepted it pretty blindly.... |
| 14:54:50 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: it has his copyright and only his so assumed he wrote it. |
| 14:55:05 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Really? I thought all this crap was from Gmate..... |
| 14:56:19 | SpaceCoaster | * linux/drivers/misc/ucb1x00-ts.c |
| 14:56:19 | SpaceCoaster | * |
| 14:56:19 | SpaceCoaster | * Copyright (C) 2001 Russell King, All Rights Reserved. |
| 14:56:35 | CosmicPenguin | Bah..... |
| 14:56:42 | CosmicPenguin | I don't want to talk about it.... |
| 14:58:02 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: changes subject, gonna buy me some CF today, is the Mr Flash stuff from newegg the best? |
| 14:59:01 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: I think that AlHaz got a Mr Flash (I believe it has Hitachi chips?).. SInce my company buys all of my CF media, I only use ScanDisk..... |
| 14:59:31 | Niddix | SpaceCoster: I paid a total of $44 for a 64mg MrFlash and PCMCIA adapter from newegg. |
| 14:59:40 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a good price.... |
| 14:59:46 | Niddix | SpaceCoster: That was including shipping. |
| 14:59:55 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: corporate whore |
| 15:00:03 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Yep..... |
| 15:00:05 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: The 64M CF was $25 |
| 15:00:20 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: lucky sod! |
| 15:00:32 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Sam's Club also has some good prices on CF.... |
| 15:01:46 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: I think they had a 128M CF for around $40. |
| 15:01:48 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Its not so much a corporation though... there are only 7 programmers, and I can walk in and argue with the CEO any time I want (though he usually wins).... |
| 15:03:53 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: sounds great |
| 15:05:22 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: were all those prices from newegg? |
| 15:06:56 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: what is the best filesystem to put on CF? |
| 15:07:15 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Yeah.. I just checked neweggs got the 128 for $43. |
| 15:09:48 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: I think that is the best, I want three 64MB and three adapters for my TuxPhones, $114 including shipping, now I could bid on ebay and pay $200-$300 instead :-) Anyone ever seen a bargain on ebay? |
| 15:11:35 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Only on used stuff. |
| 15:12:00 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Placing an add on ebay is probably cheaper than a banner. And will get more hits I'd bet. |
| 15:12:01 | prpplague | well tiger direct is out of the compaq IA-1 stuff |
| 15:13:29 | Niddix | + patch -d /home/stein/buildroot-tux/sources/linux-2.4.7.touchscreen.patch: No such file or directory |
| 15:15:31 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: does the file exist? |
| 15:16:29 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Unfortunately, ext2 is the only viable soulution for CF |
| 15:16:42 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Nope. |
| 15:17:35 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: does CF need all the erase levelling etc. that JFFS2 provides? |
| 15:18:00 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Can't use JFFS2 - CF is ATA based, not MTD... |
| 15:18:56 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: ok, ext2 is fine |
| 15:19:12 | CosmicPenguin | SpaceCoaster: Of course, if you want it to be portable, then you should do it as FAT16...... |
| 15:19:19 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: The only thing in sources are diff-2.4.7-rmk2-rp1.gz, patch-2.4.7-rmk2.bz2, linux-2.4.7.tar.bz2, patch-2.4.7-rmk2-np1-tux1.gz |
| 15:21:58 | CosmicPenguin | emacs21 PCL-CVS mode rules! |
| 15:22:22 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: look at the Makefile it doesn't fetch the touchscreen patch, this is a mistake. |
| 15:22:25 | prpplague | SpaceCoaster: i'v gotten some good deals on ebay here and there |
| 15:23:28 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: It looks like PATCH_4_SITE is missing from the Makefile.. |
| 15:25:04 | Niddix | prpplague: Most of my deals have been on used stuff. Mind you i've gotten lucky.. |
| 15:27:14 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: I think it was from the same site as one of the others. |
| 15:28:18 | prpplague | Niddix: ya i bid as if the item was broken and for parts only |
| 15:28:37 | SpaceCoaster | CosmicPenguin: PCL-CVS does rule, what did it do? |
| 15:28:54 | prpplague | anyone know a good place to pick up used dev boards? |
| 15:37:55 | prpplague | hmm, don't think this is going to sell - http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1295778739 |
| 15:37:56 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: the touchscreen patch should have arrived when you checked out the buildroot-tux. |
| 15:38:38 | Niddix | It didn't :( |
| 15:39:10 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: well let's fix it then :-) |
| 15:40:15 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Wait a sec.. I'm doing it again.. I'm getting more stuff this time.. |
| 15:40:29 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: I was missing alot of things. |
| 15:43:00 | Russ | SpaceCoaster: most of spi.h duplicates shannon.h |
| 15:43:50 | SpaceCoaster | Russ: hi, just gonna have a look |
| 15:47:30 | SpaceCoaster | Russ: yeah, shannon.h does make good sense for all this stuff, most of it is shared between devices which only exist on the tuxscreen. |
| 15:49:10 | Russ | I think you include <asm/hardware.h> |
| 15:52:12 | SpaceCoaster | Russ: my comments for the GPIO line usage are better, but shannon.h looks better, give me 30mins and I'll change spi.c and serial_flash.c to use shannon.h and junk spi.h. Ok? |
| 15:52:32 | Russ | you don't need to do it right this instant |
| 15:55:53 | Niddix | Ok.. new errors arm-linux-gcc: installation problem, cannot exec 'cpp0': also 'cc1' |
| 15:56:41 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: someone is gonna ask you "where did you get your toolchain?" so it might as well be me? |
| 15:57:13 | prpplague | wwwhhhhooo |
| 15:57:24 | | a good toolchain is at http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ get cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2 |
| 15:57:24 | SpaceCoaster | ibot: toolchain? |
| 15:57:32 | prpplague | is officially done with the @#%@%^cisco stuff |
| 15:57:51 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Thats the one I have. |
| 15:58:23 | prpplague | back to arm r&d |
| 15:58:31 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: ahhh, you have been around this loop before, haven't you? |
| 15:58:50 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: The toolchain loop? |
| 15:59:12 | Russ | Niddix: you need to follow the intstructions |
| 15:59:25 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Sort of like the which peanut butter is better, creamy or chunky.. |
| 15:59:33 | SpaceCoaster | prpplague: good, now you might contribute more than photos of carribean telegraph poles, welcome back :-) |
| 15:59:59 | prpplague | SpaceCoaster: ha, ha |
| 16:00:11 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: listen to russ, he knows what he's talking about, I'm just a conversation bot. |
| 16:00:18 | prpplague | SpaceCoaster: let me tellya i've been stressing this one |
| 16:01:01 | Russ | Niddix: you need to put it in the exact directory it asks you to |
| 16:01:52 | prpplague | Niddix: http://www.abcsinc.com/small-linux/toolchain.txt |
| 16:01:58 | Niddix | Niddix: Ok.. so I should axe the 2.95.3 directory? |
| 16:02:29 | Russ | axe? |
| 16:02:59 | Russ | "As gcc has hardcoded paths in it, you have to install it at the same place as it is on my system." |
| 16:03:10 | Russ | 'How to install:" |
| 16:03:20 | EGg0_far | is away: I'm reading a book. Do you remember books? |
| 16:03:23 | Russ | "mkdir /data |
| 16:03:23 | Russ | mkdir /data/lart |
| 16:03:23 | Russ | cd /data/lart |
| 16:03:24 | Russ | bzip2 -dc arm-linux-cross.tar.bz2 | tar xvf -" |
| 16:03:47 | Russ | "Simply add /data/lart/cross/bin to your path and invoke the compiler as arm-linux-gcc" |
| 16:04:00 | Russ | or in you case, "cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2" |
| 16:04:05 | Russ | did you do that stuff? |
| 16:04:22 | Niddix | Yes |
| 16:04:49 | EGg0 | is back (gone 00:01:28) |
| 16:06:28 | Niddix | Russ: Wait.. no its in /data/lart/2.95.3/bin |
| 16:07:09 | Niddix | Russ: Which is how it extracted.. it needs to be cross? |
| 16:07:19 | Russ | one sec |
| 16:08:09 | Russ | sorry |
| 16:08:12 | Russ | under that it says |
| 16:08:23 | Russ | Make sure you read the README file. |
| 16:08:31 | Russ | ftp://ftp.arm.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/README |
| 16:10:53 | Niddix | Russ: I've read that. /data/lart/cross/bin is in my path.. |
| 16:11:24 | Niddix | Russ: It was /data/lart/2.95.3/bin but I just changed 2.95.3 to cross in both the directory and my path. |
| 16:16:29 | Russ | no, read it again |
| 16:16:35 | Russ | ftp://ftp.arm.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/README |
| 16:26:46 | Niddix | Russ: Ok moving the toolchain to /usr/local/arm/... seems to do the trick. |
| 16:27:07 | Niddix | Russ: I could have sworn I read something somewhere that stated it need to be in /data/lart/cross |
| 16:29:20 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: you crazy fool, you read the instructions from top to bottom, next time start at the last word and read backwards :-) http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ |
| 16:31:05 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: crazy fool? blockhead more like it. |
| 16:38:05 | CosmicPenguin | Wow... buhbye |
| 16:42:43 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: still there, your gonna find that mtd doesn't download, we use a nightly snapshot which has gone away, try editing the Makefile and using mtd-snapshot-20011115.tar.bz2 |
| 16:43:26 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Ok.. is that in sources? |
| 16:43:58 | SpaceCoaster | No, the top level Makefile - buildroot-tux/Makefile |
| 16:44:39 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: no idea if it the latest mtd-snapshot will work but it does compile, so... |
| 16:44:51 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Oh I see.. Its looking for 20011011.tar.bz2 |
| 16:45:00 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: correct |
| 16:45:38 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: and 20011011 is, like, soooo last month. |
| 16:45:53 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Totally. |
| 16:58:02 | SpaceCoaster | Rush|werk, Russ, Niddix: perhaps, as the lart instructions are bogus for the latest tool chain, the direct link would be better ftp://ftp.arm.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/ |
| 16:59:23 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: I just ran buildroot-tux all the way through with the latest mtd snapshot. Good luck. |
| 17:00:38 | | Russ|werk: I forgot toolchain |
| 17:00:38 | Russ|werk | ibot: forget toolchain |
| 17:00:56 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: I'm trying to get mtd right now.. its hanging on me. |
| 17:01:09 | | OK, Russ|werk. |
| 17:01:09 | Russ|werk | ibot: toolchain is <reply> a good toolchain is at ftp://ftp.arm.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/ be sure to read the README |
| 17:01:17 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Will make clean delete stuff from sources? |
| 17:02:36 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: cool |
| 17:03:25 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: look at the Makefile, and the answer is no it won't |
| 17:12:53 | prpplague | Niddix: did you get your toolchain working? |
| 17:13:10 | Niddix | prpplague: Still working on it.. I think its ok now. |
| 17:15:04 | prpplague | Niddix: if have time to write down some of the problems your having and what the solutions were, i'd appreciate you send me an email dave123@abcsinc.com |
| 17:15:22 | prpplague | Niddix: i try to collect useful troubleshooting info |
| 17:16:03 | Niddix | prpplague: No problem. |
| 17:25:31 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Since mtd-snapshoot-20011011.tar.bz2 is gone shouldn't the Makefile be changed and checked in? |
| 17:28:46 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: I guess so, I can do that, tell me if it compiles and/or installs and/or works and I will make the change. |
| 17:29:59 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: I was getting an error in entery-armv.S so I'm starting from scratch.. |
| 17:30:21 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: I'm about 1/3 of the way through wgetting the kernel. |
| 17:31:18 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: I always save the kernel away and put it in sources myself, saves time/bandwidth/boredom. |
| 17:32:04 | Niddix | Niddix: I wanted to make sure I didn't have a corrupt file. |
| 17:32:25 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Once I get a clean build I'll make a backup of everything before I touch it. |
| 17:32:53 | SpaceCoaster | The kernel is the only real biggie. |
| 17:33:35 | Russ|werk | SpaceCoaster: any chance you care for the kernel coding style? |
| 17:34:27 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: is this the start of an indent war :-) |
| 17:36:54 | Russ|werk | no, I don't think it'd be the only piece of kernel code like that |
| 17:37:05 | Russ|werk | and since I'm not maintaining the driver atm... |
| 17:38:42 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: give me the advice and I will play nice |
| 17:39:41 | Russ|werk | Documentation/CodingStyle |
| 17:40:06 | spse_ | you can use scripts/Lindent to reformat your code |
| 17:40:20 | Russ|werk | yup |
| 17:40:26 | CosmicPenguin | I prefer Lindent too.... |
| 17:41:02 | Russ|werk | (defun linux-c-mode () |
| 17:41:02 | Russ|werk | "C mode with adjusted defaults for use with the Linux kernel." |
| 17:41:02 | Russ|werk | (interactive) |
| 17:41:02 | Russ|werk | (c-mode) |
| 17:41:03 | Russ|werk | (c-set-style "K&R") |
| 17:41:03 | Russ|werk | (setq c-basic-offset 8)) |
| 17:41:07 | Russ|werk | (for .emacs) |
| 17:41:30 | Russ|werk | "if you put the string -*- linux-c -*- somewhere on the first |
| 17:41:31 | Russ|werk | two lines, this mode will be automatically invoked." |
| 17:41:59 | spse_ | personally i agree with the coding style except for using 8tabstops |
| 17:42:03 | Russ|werk | anyway, its got a whole bunch of ways to automatically format the code |
| 17:42:12 | Russ|werk | 8tabstops are the only way to fly |
| 17:42:33 | SpaceCoaster | thanks, I've been hacking Java lately so everything has gone to pot. |
| 17:42:33 | spse_ | wastes too many pixels, i prefer 2 ;) |
| 17:43:13 | Russ|werk | spse_: if hard tabs are pushing you over to far, you are doing something wrong (ie, you probably need more functions) |
| 17:44:27 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: thanks for the pointers |
| 17:45:20 | SpaceCoaster | spse_: mind if I take stuff from blkmtd.c to hack together some touchscreen translat |
| 17:45:34 | SpaceCoaster | ...ion code? |
| 17:45:56 | spse_ | no probs, but i dont see how it would help |
| 17:46:06 | spse_ | what translation stuff do you need to do? |
| 17:52:35 | Russ|werk | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/patches/?action=viewpatch&id=761/1 |
| 17:52:43 | Russ|werk | the first patch is in the patch system |
| 17:54:26 | Russ|werk | jeez, I ask rmk to change the tuxscreen from needing -tux -np -rmk in the machine registry to -tux -rmk -ac, and he went crazy |
| 17:54:43 | Russ|werk | pulled all the -np's out |
| 18:13:15 | EGg0_in|out | My tuxscreen just arrived... so much for sleeping anymore :-) |
| 18:21:23 | CosmicPenguin | Slow day today.... is there a holiday somewhere? |
| 18:22:56 | prpplague | anyone had any experience with this thing - http://www.rlc.com/CE_SBC_SA1110.htm |
| 18:26:07 | CosmicPenguin | What do you spose they mean by built-in flash programmer/loader/bios? |
| 18:26:47 | CosmicPenguin | $1374 are you kidding me? |
| 18:27:08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: probably a pre-boot flash utility in protected flash location |
| 18:27:21 | EGg0_in|out | What's the wlan card of choice for the TuxScreen? |
| 18:27:27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya thats what i said, mighty big $$$ |
| 18:56:58 | Niddix | Now I'm getting patch errors. Woopie.. |
| 18:57:33 | Russ|werk | what errors |
| 18:58:33 | Niddix | Oh I blew my filesystem. |
| 18:58:39 | Niddix | Nevermind.. tiny disk. |
| 18:59:20 | Russ|werk | oops |
| 18:59:44 | Niddix | Crud. Stupid RedHat. |
| 19:01:29 | boodle | Greetings. Silly question: Why the preference for ulibc? due to the amount of ram on tuxscreen? |
| 19:09:06 | collord | (minorly OT) anyone have experience with the soekris hardware? |
| 19:11:35 | CosmicPenguin | boodle didn't give us enough time to talk up uclibc |
| 19:12:50 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: you have a chance to look at the new bl stuff yet? |
| 19:14:10 | Russ|werk | anyone know SpaceCoaster's email? |
| 19:14:25 | BZFlag | GoRK: DNS update for your domain went through. nameserver got removed, but a host record still exists. can you email your registrar and have them remove the host record? |
| 19:15:10 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: derek@technicaltoys.net |
| 19:15:44 | | bugger all, i dunno, bzflag |
| 19:15:44 | BZFlag | ibot soekris? |
| 19:15:47 | Russ|werk | nm, Ill just email to tuxscreen devel anyway |
| 19:19:37 | collord | BZFlag: soekris.com btw, i owe you an email on the lf project |
| 19:20:14 | collord | but I guess the answer is no at any rate... |
| 19:20:37 | Russ|werk | SpaceCoaster: did you change over the spi.h/shannon.h stuff yet? |
| 19:21:23 | SpaceCoaster | not yet, found other stuff which needed doing. |
| 19:21:35 | Russ|werk | good |
| 19:21:52 | Russ|werk | because it has to be done slightly differently anyway |
| 19:30:24 | BZFlag | collord: no? as in you're not doing it? |
| 19:32:04 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Very busy, but its still on my queue..... |
| 19:32:35 | CosmicPenguin | Don't let me hold up a release or anything |
| 19:34:05 | collord | BZFlag: just later than we thought... RSN. |
| 19:35:27 | Russ|werk | SpaceCoaster: do you have a better name for "#define SHANNON_GPIO_SPI_UNKN GPIO_GPIO (13)"? |
| 19:38:23 | BZFlag | collord: ok. |
| 19:40:28 | Russ|werk | SpaceCoaster: maybe I'll look at spi.h and change the names closer to that |
| 19:40:56 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk #defineSPI_FRAMEGPIO_GPIO13/* Output - Frame marker - not used */ |
| 19:42:26 | scanline | is back (gone 03:06:04) |
| 19:43:02 | GPSFan | SpaceCoaster: but gp13 is used... |
| 19:43:11 | SpaceCoaster | Remove the - not used, it is part of the SSP protocol and is supported by the hardware when we use fifos for xfer, we still don't use it but it isn't unused. |
| 19:43:29 | SpaceCoaster | GPSFan: please continue. |
| 19:44:25 | GPSFan | SpaceCoaster: gp13 is ore'd together with gp1 and drives IOC4 of the mongoose module which is labeled SSP_FRM |
| 19:45:23 | Russ|werk | SpaceCoaster: so it will be SHANNON_GPIO_SPI_FRAME |
| 19:46:00 | SpaceCoaster | it's the FRAME line for the SSP bus, we don't drive it in software for the DSP. The SA-1100 does drive it for transferring stuff to the flash on the SSP bus, but thats in hardware so who cares. |
| 19:46:05 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: great |
| 19:46:36 | SpaceCoaster | GPSFan: "thats in hardware so who cares" missed the smiley :-) |
| 19:47:24 | GPSFan | SpaceCoaster: the SSP bus for the DSP & serial flash is implemented with GPIOs, the real SSP or SPI buus from the SA1100 goes to the UCB1200. |
| 19:47:58 | Russ|werk | SpaceCoaster: anything you want changed, just ask, its define the way it is because thats what was in the comp.os.inferno post |
| 19:48:59 | SpaceCoaster | GPSFan: hmm, I think it's the MCP bus to the UCB1200 and the SSP goes to the same GPIOs that we toggle between SSI (for the DSP) and SSP (for the flash). |
| 19:50:33 | SpaceCoaster | GPSFan: this toggling about is probably why some commands to the flash aren't working they are getting line transitions that they are not expecting (guess). |
| 19:50:35 | EGg0_in|out | WTF? The inferno install is seg-faulting on my Mandrake box. |
| 19:51:22 | EGg0_in|out | I have the linuxemu.gz file from the tuxscreen site. |
| 19:51:33 | SpaceCoaster | Russ|werk: my comments from spi.h are better than the original, particulary where they say ?? |
| 19:52:17 | Russ|werk | alright, I'll merge the two |
| 19:52:25 | SpaceCoaster | thanks |
| 19:52:40 | Russ|werk | EGg0_in|out: you have to replace it before install, and then after |
| 19:53:07 | GPSFan | SpaceCoaster: from the SA1100 datasheet page 9 the codec xmit, rcv, clk & frame are pins 2, 1, 208, 207. These go to the UCB1200 pins sibin, sibout, sibclk, sibfrm. and nmowhere else. |
| 19:53:27 | EGg0_in|out | But it core dumps on install. How can I replace it after? |
| 19:53:30 | GPSFan | s/nmowher/nowhere |
| 19:55:53 | SpaceCoaster | GPSFan: I agree but the SSP can be assigned to the 4 GPIOs as an alternate function, we do that to transfer data to the serial flash. We also use those same GPIOs to transfer commands to the DSP and the flash. When we use those pins in SSP mode the GPIO13 is used as the SSP_FRAME pin, hence I think it's wrong to say "not used". |
| 19:57:31 | GPSFan | SpaceCoaster: correct it is wrong to say unused for gp13, when the alternate function is used for the 4 gpio's does that still allow the codec interface to be independant? |
| 19:58:11 | Niddix | EGg)_in|out: I was able to run it after untarring without installing. |
| 19:58:44 | SpaceCoaster | yes, the MCP/Codec interface has sole use of the MCP pins. It's only the "alternate" SSP pins that get shared. |
| 19:58:56 | EGg0_in|out | So did you give the whole 'emu -c1 -G -r$CDPATH /dis/install/install.dis -r $1 -p Linux' command? |
| 20:00:36 | EGg0_in|out | Just running it causes a seg fault. |
| 20:01:33 | SpaceCoaster | GPSFan: now if we can work out why the atmel flash doesn't acknowledge the erase commands that would be real useful. |
| 20:02:10 | Niddix | EGg0_in|out: Just go into /dis/Linux/386/bin and replace the emu with the one from the linuxemu.gz file. |
| 20:02:27 | Niddix | EGg0_in|out: Then just run /dis/Linux/386/bin/emu |
| 20:02:28 | EGg0_in|out | I did that. It core dumps. |
| 20:02:41 | Niddix | EGg0_in|out: Don't bother with the install. |
| 20:03:18 | Niddix | EGg0_in|out: I was having the same problem with RedHat 7.1 and 7.2. |
| 20:03:51 | EGg0_in|out | Whether I use the new version or not, it core dumps. |
| 20:04:00 | EGg0_in|out | Not installing, just running. |
| 20:04:26 | Niddix | EGg0_in|out: bummer |
| 20:06:00 | Niddix | SpaceCoaster: Suscess! I have now compiled buildroot. |
| 20:07:27 | SpaceCoaster | Niddix: woohoo |
| 20:08:47 | Tangent | wonders why everyone says amtel as atmel |
| 20:09:30 | SpaceCoaster | because it's not made by phillips? |
| 20:10:22 | SpaceCoaster | Tangent: it is atmel, what you talking about? |
| 20:11:07 | Tangent | SpaceCoaster : you're right |
| 20:11:22 | Tangent | SpaceCoaster : Hmm.. must just be me who gets it wrong all the time :) |
| 20:11:47 | Russ|werk | oops |
| 20:11:52 | SpaceCoaster | Tangent: but I didn't know that til I found the manual, yeah just you :-) |
| 20:12:18 | Tangent | notes that amtel is a phone company |
| 20:12:21 | EGg0_in|out | Dammit! It just core dumps everytime. WTF? |
| 20:12:33 | BZFlag | EGg0_in|out: what kernel version are you using? |
| 20:12:44 | EGg0_in|out | 2.4.14 |
| 20:13:14 | BZFlag | I'm running under 2.4.12 here. link output: |
| 20:13:32 | GoRK | Russ: what is that patch to the mailing list about? |
| 20:13:42 | BZFlag | imr@localhost:~/work/shannon/inferno$ ldd ./Linux/386/bin/emu |
| 20:13:42 | BZFlag | libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x40022000) |
| 20:13:42 | BZFlag | libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40044000) |
| 20:13:42 | BZFlag | libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x4011f000) |
| 20:13:42 | BZFlag | libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x4012e000) |
| 20:13:42 | BZFlag | /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000) |
| 20:14:22 | Russ|werk | I did the initial patch submittial to rmk, and he wanted changes in shannon.h and hardware.h |
| 20:14:23 | EGg0_in|out | Hrm.. |
| 20:14:30 | BZFlag | glibc 2.2.4 |
| 20:14:35 | BZFlag | debian unstable. |
| 20:14:55 | EGg0_in|out | ldd ./Linux/386/bin/emu |
| 20:14:55 | EGg0_in|out | ldd: /lib/ld-linux.so.2 exited with unknown exit code (139) |
| 20:14:59 | GoRK | Russ: oh i didnt see his email attached :) sorry |
| 20:15:04 | EGg0_in|out | THat's weird. |
| 20:15:18 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: I agree with rmk for what it's worth. Even though it's painful, it's the right thing to do I think. |
| 20:15:48 | Russ|werk | its easy to do |
| 20:15:53 | BZFlag | yep. |
| 20:16:21 | BZFlag | EGg0_in|out: well if ldd fails, it won't run. ;-) find a emu binary that does not fail. |
| 20:16:46 | BZFlag | timr@localhost:~/work/shannon/inferno$ md5sum ./Linux/386/bin/emu |
| 20:16:46 | BZFlag | 6b841cc43a352850b250031dc19b1159 ./Linux/386/bin/emu |
| 20:16:52 | EGg0_in|out | THX |
| 20:17:04 | GoRK | BZFlag: at least he's not asking us to rip highly useful features out of the kernel :) |
| 20:17:11 | EGg0_in|out | EEK! |
| 20:17:26 | BZFlag | GoRK: just wait, that might happen too. 8-/ |
| 20:17:40 | EGg0_in|out | That's a bit off. Hrm... I'll try with wget... I'll bet Netscape screwed up the binary. |
| 20:17:53 | GoRK | BZFlag: no i think he's taken care of most of that for us :) |
| 20:17:58 | BZFlag | EGg0_in|out: that's the one from the tux site. |
| 20:18:32 | Russ|werk | I just summitted a default config, shannon.c, and shannon.h basically |
| 20:18:32 | BZFlag | 2697180 Jun 13 12:52 ./Linux/386/bin/emu |
| 20:18:47 | EGg0_in|out | Cool. It was nutscrape... wget gives me a binary with the same sum. |
| 20:19:00 | EGg0_in|out | THanks... I wasn't even thinking of that. |
| 20:19:03 | BZFlag | and does it run? ;-) |
| 20:19:11 | EGg0_in|out | Trying it now... |
| 20:19:59 | BZFlag | Linux/386/bin/emu -g640x480 -r`pwd` should do. |
| 20:25:27 | BZFlag | to work. |
| 20:25:53 | EGg0_in|out | Hrm.. It works, but what is unable to load /dis/sh.dis? |
| 20:28:18 | EGg0_in|out | is back (gone 03:16:31) |
| 20:28:26 | EGg0_in|out | is away: I'm reading a book. Do you remember books? |
| 20:43:21 | Niddix | If my tux freezes during a flash ramdisk.. is that bad? |
| 20:43:36 | GoRK | Niddix: how long have you waited? |
| 20:43:43 | Niddix | About 15 minutes. |
| 20:43:55 | GoRK | Niddix: hrm shouldnt take that long |
| 20:44:04 | scanline | is away: test |
| 20:44:12 | Niddix | GoRK: Oh wait.. there its done. |
| 20:45:25 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: The first one takes forever.... |
| 20:45:53 | Niddix | CosmicPenguin: This was actually a build from CVS. |
| 20:46:08 | Niddix | Hrmm.. now my pccard doesn't work... |
| 20:46:18 | GoRK | it takes longer if you do not power cycle in between flash kernel and flash ramdisk for some reason |
| 20:46:35 | CosmicPenguin | Flash... go figure |
| 20:47:20 | Niddix | Oh wait.. nevermind... linuxrc.. |
| 20:49:21 | CosmicPenguin | Geez.... HP continues to swing the axe.... |
| 20:51:44 | Niddix | Alright.. I think I'm getting the hang of this. |
| 21:10:50 | GoRK | there were some more updates made to tuxphone by scanline last night also |
| 21:23:34 | Russ|werk | I couldn't figure out a clean way of doing the things that the datasheets told me to do for AMD flash |
| 21:23:43 | Russ|werk | i would not be surprised if there is a buf |
| 21:23:44 | Russ|werk | er, bug |
| 21:25:06 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 21:26:32 | Tangent | as_ : Evening |
| 21:26:45 | as_ | Tangent :] |
| 21:28:19 | scanline | is back (gone 00:44:14) |
| 21:36:40 | bhima | good evening. |
| 21:36:42 | bhima | yawns. |
| 21:37:27 | bhima | wonders if a GameCube or an XBox would be reasonable for a small but higher power embedded CPU instead of an expensive single board comptuer... |
| 21:42:07 | AlHazWork | the xbox is hardly embedded |
| 21:42:13 | AlHazWork | aside from being single-board |
| 21:42:19 | AlHazWork | I Forget what's in a gamecube |
| 21:42:30 | AlHazWork | You could probably get a lot done with the guts of a Dreamcast |
| 21:42:41 | AlHazWork | 200mhz SH4, 16 megs of ram, bootable cd-rom drive |
| 21:42:48 | GoRK | dreamcast rules :) i have done some fun stuff with it |
| 21:42:55 | GoRK | AlHaz: dont forget ethernet |
| 21:42:57 | AlHazWork | and you can get 'em for about $25 when the keyboard fuse is blown |
| 21:43:05 | AlHazWork | GoRK: Yeah but the BBA is rare and expensive |
| 21:43:13 | AlHazWork | GoRK: the BBA needs to be reverse engineered |
| 21:43:44 | GoRK | i have one so im not too worried :) i think you can still get them from lik-sang though |
| 21:43:46 | bhima | sorry, I shouldn't have used the word embedded, you're right. |
| 21:44:01 | AlHazWork | I'm serious, tho, troll ebay for "broken" dreamcasts that don't respond to controller input |
| 21:44:06 | bhima | I need a much faster CPU than a 200MHz SH4. |
| 21:44:10 | GoRK | AlHaz: last id haerd somebody had gotten isa bus things to run off that expansion port |
| 21:44:11 | AlHazWork | replace F1 and you're good to go |
| 21:44:19 | AlHazWork | GoRK: That'd do it |
| 21:44:39 | bhima | alhaz: good pointer, thank you. so, basicaly, if it turns on but no input response, it's almost guaranteed to be that fuse? |
| 21:44:45 | AlHazWork | aquired and fixed a "broken" DC this week |
| 21:45:14 | AlHazWork | bhima: It's so common that there are even people who sell "repaired" dreamcast controller port boards for $20 on condition of recieving your blown one |
| 21:45:52 | AlHazWork | I have no idea what the actual rating of the fuse is. It looks like a resistor but the color codes don't make sense |
| 21:45:53 | bhima | wow. capitalism at work. |
| 21:46:07 | AlHazWork | orange-white-silver-silver-green |
| 21:46:29 | AlHazWork | so i installed an inline fuse holder for 20x5mm fuses and stuck a .5a fuse in it |
| 21:46:37 | bhima | some of the first PowerBooks had a fuse that was in theory supposed to only blow when the motherboard was dead to protect it from more explosive effects. |
| 21:46:44 | bhima | but aparently it sometimes blew too easily. |
| 21:46:47 | bhima | it was an SMT fuse. |
| 21:46:52 | AlHazWork | heh |
| 21:47:14 | AlHazWork | I figure the real purpose of the fuse is to prevent damage if the controller gets shorted out |
| 21:47:17 | bhima | wasn't _that_ common, but a clueless repair place managed to kill my powerbook that way. |
| 21:47:24 | AlHazWork | so a .5a fuse should blow in that condition |
| 21:47:52 | GoRK | psx has a controller fuse that dies a lot.. my ex gf had one die and the store she got it from gave her a new one and they didnt take the old one back so i fixed it |
| 21:48:15 | bhima | yeah, basically, I'm just thinking about other options for my car. I have a 1.4GHz Athlon that I was going to use, but was thinking that an xbox, while much slower, would have a _wonderful_ shape. |
| 21:48:22 | bhima | and probably easier to work with in terms of power requirements. |
| 21:48:28 | bhima | could just stick a pair of xboxen in there. |
| 21:48:36 | AlHazWork | most people just replace the blown fuse with a 10ohm resistor, but i was raised to believe that overcurrent protection exists for a reason |
| 21:48:53 | AlHazWork | bhima: Ah |
| 21:49:19 | AlHazWork | the DC can also be hacked to support an ide harddrive, I've not seen how ugly the hack is tho |
| 21:49:26 | GoRK | what do you need an xbox in your car for? |
| 21:50:18 | bhima | gork: mapping and direction finding stuff. providing a few hundred megabytes of maps for the tuxscreen to display. |
| 21:50:48 | bhima | and calculations and lookups on the data. |
| 21:50:49 | GoRK | bhima: why dont you just get one of those little NAS servers like a MaxAttach or something? |
| 21:50:54 | bhima | plus speech recognition :) |
| 21:51:16 | bhima | and text to speech. SA1110/206MHz is worse than real time running Festival. |
| 21:51:29 | | it has been said that cost is due to twice the battery power of a regular PCMCIA sleeve. The CF sleeve has none. |
| 21:51:29 | bhima | gork: cost...? |
| 21:51:44 | GoRK | bhima: only a couple hundred bucks |
| 21:51:56 | bhima | hehehe. ibot is talking about a PCMCIA sleeve for an ipaq, I suspect. |
| 21:52:04 | bhima | dual, in fact. |
| 21:52:07 | GoRK | bhima: i dont know if you can replace the software on it though.. |
| 21:52:30 | bhima | gork: mmm, but an xbox is $300, so it's somewhat comparable. wonder if you can upgrade the DRAM on an xbox. |
| 21:52:38 | bhima | need at least 512MB. |
| 21:52:43 | bhima | so I should just stick with my athlon. |
| 21:52:59 | AlHazWork | I've yet to hear a coherent analysis of how and what os boots in an xbox |
| 21:53:14 | AlHazWork | but it shouldn't be difficult to rip it out by the roots and replace it, whatever and however it is |
| 21:53:34 | bhima | cutdown win2k of some sort. |
| 21:53:37 | AlHazWork | I've heard a few people claim it boots a win2k-derived kernel from flash |
| 21:53:42 | bhima | that wouldn't surprise me. |
| 21:53:49 | bhima | they do _not_ want peole to hack it out. |
| 21:54:10 | AlHazWork | should be possible to compose a disc that will boot linux from out of windows |
| 21:54:13 | bhima | (mainly cause they take a loss on each one) |
| 21:54:25 | AlHazWork | and from there, load an mtd driver and go to town |
| 21:54:52 | bhima | I think I will try to port FreeBSD to it :) |
| 21:54:57 | AlHazWork | microsoft's never been good at protecting their OSs from malicious code |
| 21:55:03 | GoRK | the problem is that you can build the same machine (pretty much) for the same price.. it just wont look as cool or have some of the higher speed interconnects as an xbox |
| 21:55:09 | AlHazWork | port? it's an x86, all you have to do is *install somewhow |
| 21:55:26 | bhima | alhaz: depends on how much they use commodity parts. |
| 21:55:29 | bhima | driver issues really. |
| 21:55:44 | bhima | gork: I'm interested in the power supply and the physical packaging. |
| 21:56:32 | AlHazWork | I'm interested in running linux on an xbox if only to annoy microsoft |
| 21:56:39 | GoRK | bhima: if you want a cool power supply you can get ATX form factor PS's that run on 12Vdc |
| 21:57:16 | bhima | gork: yeah, for $200 to $400 :) |
| 21:57:37 | AlHazWork | bima: on the DC side of the argument, remember that an SH4, unlike a strongarm, has kickass floating point |
| 21:58:01 | AlHazWork | Theoretically an SH4 at 200mhz can do 1 gigaflop - in practice, I've seen people get about 940 megaflops |
| 21:58:05 | bhima | alhaz: true. is it a 32 bit CPU? |
| 21:58:12 | AlHazWork | bhima: Yup |
| 21:58:18 | bhima | (ie: full support for 4GB addressable) |
| 21:58:26 | AlHazWork | you can run linux & netbsd on it |
| 21:58:32 | AlHazWork | I have no idea what it can address |
| 21:58:55 | bhima | but I need floating point and integer, and 200MHz just ain't gonna cut it... |
| 21:59:11 | bhima | it's worth thinking about for some parts of the system though. |
| 21:59:11 | GoRK | also in the dreamcast if you get lonely for ARM, there is an ARM in it also with 4MB ram :) |
| 21:59:17 | AlHazWork | for speech synthesis? |
| 21:59:19 | bhima | giggles. |
| 21:59:24 | bhima | speech recognition and synthesis. |
| 21:59:25 | AlHazWork | GoRK: I |
| 21:59:29 | bhima | sphinx 2. |
| 21:59:32 | AlHazWork | GoRK: I've heard rumors about that, but WTF does it do? |
| 21:59:49 | bhima | A K5/200 is about real time. |
| 22:00:00 | GoRK | AlHaz: it's the audio co-processor. you can make the arm play mp3's or something with 0% overhead from sh4 |
| 22:00:14 | AlHazWork | GoRK: which arm is it tho? |
| 22:00:15 | bhima | that's nifty. |
| 22:00:22 | GoRK | arm7tdmi i believe |
| 22:00:29 | AlHazWork | ah, no mmu |
| 22:00:30 | GoRK | or other arm7 |
| 22:00:35 | AlHazWork | so uclinux at best |
| 22:00:48 | GoRK | well ... you dont throw linux on it directly |
| 22:00:58 | bhima | gork: why not? that would be the best way to do it :) |
| 22:01:13 | GoRK | it cant address any storage. you put code into its ram (4mb) and it executes it |
| 22:01:14 | AlHazWork | throw RTXC on it, the kernel's only 2k :) |
| 22:02:04 | AlHazWork | makes sense |
| 22:02:05 | bhima | www.xbox.com gets you: |
| 22:02:06 | bhima | http://www.xbox.com/NR/exeres/0000140cbhwdsjihhlwiynse/Type+A-+Xbox+Home.asp?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fdefault%2ehtm&NRNODEGUID=%7b6D2987CB-9B02-495D-96E2-AE57D3E18DF4%7d&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie%5Ftest=1 |
| 22:02:16 | bhima | what's RTXC? |
| 22:02:19 | GoRK | to get data back from it you have to have the sh4 read from arm ram |
| 22:02:56 | AlHazWork | bhima: an OS that lineo owns |
| 22:03:02 | AlHazWork | it goes way back, pre linux iirc |
| 22:03:12 | AlHazWork | it's commercial, but comes with source |
| 22:03:16 | AlHazWork | but it's closed source |
| 22:03:27 | AlHazWork | we liked it so much we bought the company |
| 22:04:01 | AlHazWork | bhima: I don't see hardware specs on that page |
| 22:05:07 | bhima | alhaz: yeah. I'm trying to look for them. |
| 22:05:15 | bhima | it's got 64MB of DRAM, I just wanna know if you can upgrade it. |
| 22:05:40 | AlHazWork | sockets cost money and invite customer meddling and breaking of the warranty seal, it's probably all soldered to the board |
| 22:05:58 | bhima | right. which would suck. |
| 22:06:03 | AlHazWork | typically game consoles are sold as a black box |
| 22:06:13 | bhima | wonder how many chips it is. if they're low density, I could just replace 'em. |
| 22:06:31 | bhima | but it'll be as few as possible, cause chips cost money. |
| 22:10:42 | EGg0 | What are the .dis files in Inferno? |
| 22:11:11 | EGg0 | When I try to run emu, I get an error that /dis/sh.dis does not exist. |
| 22:11:30 | bhima | microsnot-- for killing netscape too frequently. |
| 22:12:11 | kernelwork | "dis does not exist"? |
| 22:12:21 | BZFlag | EGg0: did you pass a -r`pwd` ? |
| 22:12:31 | kernelwork | does dat exist? :) |
| 22:12:56 | EGg0 | Man, none a dis exist! |
| 22:13:03 | EGg0 | [inferno@vulcan inferno]$ ./Linux/386/bin/emu -g640x480 -r`pwd` |
| 22:13:03 | EGg0 | Inferno Third Edition (19 Apr 2001) main (pid=5790) interp |
| 22:13:03 | EGg0 | Initialize Dis: /dis/emuinit.dis |
| 22:13:04 | EGg0 | emuinit: unable to load /dis/sh.dis: file does not exist |
| 22:13:04 | EGg0 | Killed |
| 22:13:04 | EGg0 | [inferno@vulcan inferno]$ |
| 22:13:30 | BZFlag | kernelwork: he's not askin' 'bout dat, he's askin' 'bout dis! |
| 22:13:39 | kernelwork | At least we don't run dis on dos |
| 22:13:44 | EGg0 | LOL |
| 22:13:59 | bhima | there we go. A press release from micron has detailed specs on the precise memory chips used and the bus arrangement. |
| 22:14:02 | EGg0 | Initialize Dis, Kill Dat, I'm so confused. |
| 22:14:29 | BZFlag | EGg0: hmm... and is there a dis/sh.dis ? |
| 22:14:33 | kernelwork | the only thing worse than dos for dis is dows |
| 22:14:37 | EGg0 | Well, no. |
| 22:14:54 | BZFlag | no? you have not run the install then yet? |
| 22:15:20 | EGg0 | yes, lots of other stuff, but dis ain't dere |
| 22:15:42 | BZFlag | re install. you should have a dis/sh.dis under the inferno root. |
| 22:16:03 | EGg0 | Looks like a whole directory structure here, and there are a couple other .dis files in /dis, but not sh.dis. |
| 22:16:12 | kernelwork | goes away to spare the channel from any more of dees comments |
| 22:16:31 | BZFlag | you have a dis/wm/wm.dis ? |
| 22:16:52 | BZFlag | Linux/386/bin/emu -g640x480 -r`pwd` dis/wm/wm.dis |
| 22:16:58 | EGg0 | Hrm... Only dirs in dis are install/ and lib/ |
| 22:17:09 | BZFlag | ah, then you have not run the install yet. |
| 22:17:19 | EGg0 | Ah, but I have. |
| 22:17:29 | BZFlag | Linux/386/bin/emu -g640x480 -r`pwd` dis/install/install.dis ? |
| 22:17:53 | EGg0 | Uh, you got me. |
| 22:17:58 | BZFlag | I don't recall the install command I used. It's been too long. |
| 22:17:59 | EGg0 | /home/john/inferno/install/Linux-386.sh /home/inferno/ |
| 22:18:47 | BZFlag | and do you have a /home/inferno/dis/sh.dis ? ;-) |
| 22:19:10 | EGg0 | Nope. |
| 22:19:50 | BZFlag | well hack the install tree Linux-386.sh to use the working emu and run the install again. |
| 22:20:02 | EGg0 | Let me clean out this dir structure and run install again. /home/inferno is filled with directories, but obviously something screwed up. |
| 22:20:58 | prpplague | EGg0: ok here's what ya do, cd / , then type rm -rf *, wait for the hard drive light to off then you'll be ready to start again |
| 22:21:10 | EGg0 | LOL |
| 22:21:28 | prpplague | EGg0: i feel for ya, that inferno remote was named correctly |
| 22:21:48 | EGg0 | I usually just reboot. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? |
| 22:22:11 | prpplague | EGg0: only if your using winblows |
| 22:22:40 | EGg0 | WAIT! THat's the problem! I thought I was using a GatesScreen! |
| 22:22:54 | prpplague | EGg0: lol |
| 22:26:24 | SpaceCoaster | GoRK: tried my new driver yet? |
| 22:28:25 | EGg0 | Man, ps axf shows 11 processes with this commandline |
| 22:28:26 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 22:28:27 | EGg0 | LOL |
| 22:28:34 | EGg0 | /home/john/inferno/Linux/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/home/john/inferno /dis/install/install.dis -r /home/inferno/ -p Linux |
| 22:28:41 | pattieja | is back (gone 00:00:04) |
| 22:28:59 | pattieja | is away: night |
| 22:32:43 | BZFlag | Russ: you around? |
| 22:32:48 | | russ was last seen on #blob 6 hours, 15 minutes and 52 seconds ago, saying: I learned what a pig sounds like in korean [Fri Nov 16 16:16:56 2001] |
| 22:32:48 | BZFlag | ibot seen russ |
| 22:32:52 | | Russ|werk was last seen on #tuxscreen 1 hours, 9 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying: er, bug [Fri Nov 16 21:23:44 2001] |
| 22:32:52 | BZFlag | ibot seen Russ|werk |
| 22:33:58 | EGg0 | Hrm. The hits just keep on coming |
| 22:34:08 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: I mailed bootldr about the GPL issue. They have GPL licensing if your jffs2 code is included, but not the required GPL and copyright reference on bootup. you may want to comment on whether your copyright needs to be displayed on bootup as well. |
| 22:35:06 | EGg0 | What would 'SYS: process syscall faults: Segmentation violation' mean in Inferno speak. |
| 22:36:01 | AlHazWork | sounds a bit like a segfault to me |
| 22:36:56 | prpplague | BZFlag: i though under GPL that as long as the copyright references were still in the code, that it didn't have to be displayed? |
| 22:39:56 | BZFlag | prpplague: section 2.c requires copyright and GPL reference if there is an "interactive mode" |
| 22:40:20 | EGg0 | Secant! |
| 22:41:20 | BZFlag | prpplague: that's true unless no copyright or warantee is ever displayed, then the GPL clause is not required. |
| 22:43:27 | prpplague | BZFlag: hmm, how does that fit into the idea of things like the LPP package, and the fact that Linus has stated that he wants to have the kernel boot cleaned up to make item "pretty" |
| 22:44:19 | BZFlag | prpplague: it could be argued that the kernel does not have an "interactive mode" |
| 22:44:49 | BZFlag | and so no display is required |
| 22:46:06 | RedBaron | BZFlag: Just play the devils advocate, what about vga=ask? The kernel (and not the boot loader) actualy goes interactive there. Thats the only place I can think of that does that. |
| 22:46:17 | RedBaron | BZFlag: erm .... just to play.. |
| 22:47:40 | BZFlag | RedBaron: yeah, I thought about that. I think since the vga=ask section does not display any copyright or warantee info itself, we can exclude that portion. it's a grey area to be sure. |
| 22:49:05 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: I'm here |
| 22:49:11 | RedBaron | BZFlag: *nod* I personaly dont think it should be a problem, but then again, I realy dislike the problems that go along with licenses. :) |
| 22:49:25 | BZFlag | the other is whether sysrq counts as interactive. ;-) |
| 22:49:47 | RedBaron | BZFlag: Heh...I suppose it might. |
| 22:49:51 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: I offered comprises to them so that the parts they needed could be released under BSD, but they were never interested |
| 22:49:53 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: you got my email response to george? |
| 22:50:11 | prpplague | BZFlag: so what about blob (oops, not "what about bob" ), it displays warranty and copyright, can "visual" concerns, can these be commented out? |
| 22:50:13 | Russ|werk | yup |
| 22:50:15 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: heh, just make em go GPL. |
| 22:50:46 | Russ|werk | there are large portions of code in there they don't need, like mini_inflate.c |
| 22:50:47 | BZFlag | prpplague: yep, waiting to talk to erikm on monday about blob. I think he will just add the text. |
| 22:50:52 | Russ|werk | they already have zlib.c |
| 22:51:13 | BZFlag | zlib is BSD or GPL ? |
| 22:51:55 | prpplague | BZFlag: i mean most of our end users on our thin clients interpret many of the standard messages as errors and would call about them |
| 22:52:48 | prpplague | BZFlag: we took great pains to keep the code in and just commented stuff out and provided gpl license info on everything |
| 22:53:09 | prpplague | BZFlag: stoped the calls pretty quicj |
| 22:53:16 | prpplague | s/quicj/quick |
| 22:55:10 | RedBaron | what the hell...I just got the latest buildroot from CVS and downloaded the kernel and the root image to my tux. I booted up and it spewed out tons of 'waitinf for chip to read, status = 4' ... this was after the VFS mounted root. Then after about 5 seconds of that, it went to spewing the same message, but a value of 7. Then it said something about the kingston ether card I have in it, then said couldnt mount /mnt/hda1: no such device. and |
| 22:55:29 | prpplague | doh |
| 22:55:32 | AlHazWork | RedBaron: normal |
| 22:55:41 | AlHazWork | you were cut off at "no such device. and" |
| 22:56:07 | AlHazWork | "Waiting for chip to read" means the mtd device is busy while the jffs2 driver clears unused blocks |
| 22:56:29 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: zlib is closest to BSD iirc |
| 22:56:39 | RedBaron | AlHazWork: Hmm...okay. after the 'no such device' all I said was that the machine is now hung |
| 22:56:49 | AlHazWork | RedBaron: strange |
| 22:56:55 | AlHazWork | RedBaron: try booting w/o any pcmcia? |
| 22:57:00 | RedBaron | AlHazWork: popped out the card and booting now |
| 22:57:02 | AlHazWork | no cards, I mean |
| 22:57:09 | RedBaron | AlHazWork: its fine. came up fine. |
| 22:57:27 | AlHazWork | hmm |
| 22:57:43 | AlHazWork | I saw something similar once, dunno which version of buildroot or whatever i was using |
| 22:57:52 | AlHazWork | probably something in /linuxrc |
| 22:57:58 | RedBaron | AlHazWork: The card I had in it is one of the kingston cards that BZFlag is selling. I didnt have it plugged into a hub or anything. I suppose that might have had an effect. |
| 22:58:20 | RedBaron | AlHazWork: yeah. it looked like it was going through linuxrc |
| 22:59:50 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: yep. zlib is public domain, unrestricted. |
| 23:00:07 | AlHazWork | goin home. |
| 23:00:23 | BZFlag | /linuxrc needs to be updated for Russ|werk's udhcpc changes. |
| 23:00:37 | BZFlag | I've been meaning to get to that for a long time now. |
| 23:00:46 | RedBaron | BZFlag: *nod* |
| 23:01:18 | RedBaron | BZFlag: Do you know why the kernel would not be able to talk to the card during bootup? And spew out the waiting messages? |
| 23:02:31 | prpplague | night all |
| 23:02:35 | RedBaron | night |
| 23:02:36 | BZFlag | RedBaron: the messages were just first boot jffs2 warnings. |
| 23:03:09 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: When is picogui going to be added to the buildroot? |
| 23:03:12 | BZFlag | RedBaron: the delay was probably a nfs mount attempt. it would have timed out and finished booting eventually. |
| 23:03:47 | RedBaron | BZFlag: Aaahh. Okay, so the fact that I didnt have the card plugged into the network would have mattered. |
| 23:05:33 | CosmicPenguin | We should change the buildroot so it automatically downloads all of the needed stuff at the beginning, so you don't have to wait until the kernel builds to copy more stuff over.... |
| 23:05:54 | RedBaron | Or maybe do it in parrallel? |
| 23:09:31 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: there was a different jffs2 reader developed iirc |
| 23:09:38 | Russ|werk | but its not called load_kernel |
| 23:09:41 | Russ|werk | anyway, gtg |
| 23:17:31 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: they why is your code included and referenced? |
| 23:18:21 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: the latest cvs bootldr does compile and link in your code. |
| 23:18:28 | EGg0 | Hrm.. Seem to have lost my null modem cable. |
| 23:18:48 | EGg0 | That kind of screws any fun I may have had tonight. |
| 23:19:25 | BZFlag | EGg0: just get some small clips on pins 2 and 3 ;-) |
| 23:21:17 | | a good toolchain is at ftp://ftp.arm.linux.org.uk/pub/linux/arm/toolchain/ be sure to read the README |
| 23:21:17 | CosmicPenguin | ibot: toolchain |
| 23:22:50 | jacques_gone | the tuxscreens are here!!! the tuxscreens are here!!! |
| 23:23:29 | SpaceCoaster | jacques: congratulations! |
| 23:23:35 | jacques | :-D |
| 23:24:06 | CosmicPenguin | Andersee has heard rumors of successful C++ compilings with uclibc, so this weekend I'm going to take the plunge.... |
| 23:24:11 | EGg0 | jacques It took all of 6 seconds to convince myself that I wanted that ugly wincrap like system off of mine :-) |
| 23:24:39 | jacques | heh |
| 23:25:08 | jacques | now, do I start playing with them or wait until I get home from work... |
| 23:27:10 | BZFlag | jacques: now! now! ;-) |
| 23:27:41 | jacques | BZFlag: :-D |
| 23:27:46 | jacques | ok |
| 23:28:29 | BZFlag | must reboot into the redmond os to run distiller. ugh... bbiab |
| 23:31:27 | EGg0 | is away: quickly packing away the TuxScreen, cleaning the kitchen, and making dinner... Wife is coming home from work :-) |
| 23:35:47 | jacques | EGg0: HEH |
| 23:37:29 | CosmicPenguin | I'm thinking that jacques isn't too happy with the Inferno |
| 23:38:29 | RedBaron | Its nothing to write home about. :) |
| 23:39:09 | CosmicPenguin | *shrug* They fit it in 4MB.... thats an accomplishment these days |
| 23:39:58 | RedBaron | True. Thats not saying tooooo much though. |
| 23:41:22 | RedBaron | Yegawds. the IEEE approved a 54mb/s wireless, 802.11g. Thats insane. |
| 23:42:17 | CosmicPenguin | Guess its time to head for home...... This weekend I will be updating the microwindows stuff to the new version, adding some stuff, and (hopefully), making it so I can compile C++ with uclibc... |
| 23:42:56 | CosmicPenguin | buh,bye |
| 23:55:42 | jacques | wow, batteries included!!! |
| 23:56:28 | RedBaron | chuckle ... nice touch aint it? |
