| 00:56:30 | lfjewett | Boo |
| 00:56:37 | Aelhaz | eek. |
| 00:56:46 | lfjewett | hehehe, thought the room was dead. |
| 00:57:47 | lfjewett | Hey do you know the answer to a simple question, when you upload something to the tuxscreen, where is it holding it? I know it has 4Meg boot flash and 512k "other" then the RAM, but what filesystems are mounted to what? |
| 00:57:59 | AeroSpace | How do you know a room is dead in irc? It is empty. |
| 00:58:30 | lfjewett | I ask cuz I uploaded a small app, then powercycled the phone, I expected it to be gone, thinking it was stored in the RAM drive.. I was wrong.. |
| 00:59:00 | lfjewett | True true.. but I alway see about 15 people in here, that usually arn't every typeing.. |
| 00:59:23 | AeroSpace | Are you talking about Linux? I think I would have expected it to be gone, too, but I don't have mine yet to try myself. |
| 00:59:25 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: power cycle might not clear ram . . |
| 00:59:53 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: the 4 megs of flash holds the boot loader, the kernel, and has about 3 megs left for root fs |
| 00:59:55 | AeroSpace | You mean you have to turn it off, wait 20 seconds first? |
| 01:00:15 | Aelhaz | when you "download kernel" it gets saved to a chunk of ram |
| 01:00:27 | Aelhaz | then "flash kernel" writes it to a chunk of flash |
| 01:00:38 | Aelhaz | same with the ramdisk, which is really the root fs |
| 01:01:06 | lfjewett | Yes off 20 seconds.. |
| 01:01:15 | Aelhaz | i mean, reset might not clear ram |
| 01:01:37 | Aelhaz | the 512k serial data flash isn't yet used for anything |
| 01:01:41 | lfjewett | right, actually removed the power cord.. |
| 01:01:49 | lfjewett | Ok, that is good to know.. |
| 01:02:05 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: you didn't flash anything? |
| 01:02:22 | lfjewett | What do you mean? |
| 01:02:27 | lfjewett | I have linux up and running ok. |
| 01:02:39 | lfjewett | I got the bootloader, the kernel and ramdisk image installed. |
| 01:02:46 | Aelhaz | OK, how do you mean "uploaded a small ap"? |
| 01:02:58 | lfjewett | connect via minicom and zmodem it up. |
| 01:03:00 | lfjewett | to /root |
| 01:03:13 | lfjewett | a df -k on the tuxscreen yeilds only 1 mount /dev/root |
| 01:03:19 | Aelhaz | oh, the root fs is read/write |
| 01:03:30 | Aelhaz | so it's in flash |
| 01:03:46 | Aelhaz | df might not be accurate on jffs2 |
| 01:04:39 | lfjewett | That's what it looks like.. I thought the kernel and system was run out of a ramdisk while the system was on. |
| 01:04:42 | Aelhaz | nah |
| 01:04:43 | lfjewett | Guess I'm not clear on that. |
| 01:04:53 | lfjewett | O so the RAM is only used for RAM then... |
| 01:04:57 | Aelhaz | blob calls it a ramdisk, but that's just because the name stuck |
| 01:05:14 | lfjewett | Well now I just don't like blob ;-) |
| 01:05:19 | Aelhaz | :P |
| 01:05:26 | Aelhaz | the blob is a really nice boot loader, compared to many |
| 01:05:43 | Aelhaz | tho it sure aint a debugger |
| 01:06:46 | lfjewett | Isn't there a limit ~1000 writes on the flash? |
| 01:07:04 | lfjewett | Hmm, do you know how to use a portion of RAM as a drive? |
| 01:07:35 | lfjewett | I would think things like logs would be better served in RAM instead of writeing to flash.. and any user apps.. |
| 01:08:24 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: Not really. The deal is that flash has a finite lifespan, but it's not a solid number |
| 01:08:38 | Aelhaz | flash reads as fast as ram |
| 01:08:41 | Aelhaz | roughly |
| 01:08:46 | Aelhaz | but writes a lot slower |
| 01:09:31 | lfjewett | Yeah that's the way I understood it too. |
| 01:09:40 | Aelhaz | My boss used to be a quality assurance manager at Philips Semiconductor, so I asked him what the deal is with flash lifespans - how flash chips are documented as supporting up to 100k write operations |
| 01:09:59 | Aelhaz | He told me "Yeah, we did that too, because that was the number everybody else used" |
| 01:10:08 | Aelhaz | it's basically analogous to processor speeds |
| 01:10:30 | Aelhaz | the manufacturer is Pretty Sure that the chips ought to work for at least 100k write ops |
| 01:10:48 | Aelhaz | they're Pretty Sure because they do statistical sampling on the batches and test them |
| 01:11:23 | AeroSpace | I guess that means some of them do fail at 200k or so? |
| 01:11:27 | Aelhaz | He said that most of the time, most batches were fine up to 300,000 or 500,000 ops |
| 01:11:52 | Aelhaz | Usually they had batches that were less so, 200k or so, but not as many |
| 01:11:58 | Aelhaz | and occasionally batches that went into the millions |
| 01:12:24 | Aelhaz | so they say they work up to 100k, because they're pretty sure they should get at least that, but they're not guaranteeing more |
| 01:12:46 | lfjewett | Yeah, that is how I understand flash.. |
| 01:13:12 | Aelhaz | Now, jffs and jffs2 don't act like a filesystem on a regular block device |
| 01:13:19 | lfjewett | If I have an app that needs to update a file quiet often though that isn't going to be bad idear.. |
| 01:13:46 | Aelhaz | jffs is an append-only filesystem - it writes from the first block to the last block, and then from the first to the last again |
| 01:13:55 | Aelhaz | jffs2 does something similar |
| 01:14:03 | lfjewett | hmm interesting.. |
| 01:14:25 | Aelhaz | both basically attempts at normalizing the number of write operations across all cells of flash |
| 01:14:37 | Aelhaz | so that they're not hammering one group of cells over and over |
| 01:14:43 | lfjewett | Do ether of you know if a "ramdisk" in the sence of actually useing RAM is possible with the current OS? |
| 01:15:00 | lfjewett | That makes sence.. it was a good idea of them.. |
| 01:15:31 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: for what ever reason, ramdisks aren't working on tux with blob 2.0.3 - russ says it may work with 2.0.4 |
| 01:15:54 | Aelhaz | jffs2 is also compressed with zlib, so you get more bang for your buck, tho ops are a little higher overhead |
| 01:16:17 | AeroSpace | Based on 8 hours a day and 100,000 writes total, that means you can only make 34 passes an hour before it is dead in a year. What about that 512k serial data? Does it have any write limits? |
| 01:16:38 | Aelhaz | dunno about serial flash |
| 01:16:43 | Aelhaz | probably similar |
| 01:16:51 | Aelhaz | serial flash is generally used for stuff like answering machines |
| 01:17:02 | Aelhaz | where a bit lost here or there won't make much of a difference |
| 01:17:12 | AeroSpace | Aelhaz: What about just making a ram block device, formatting and mounting it each boot? Do you think that would work? |
| 01:17:36 | Aelhaz | AeroSpace: Oh yeah, that's how familair sets up /tmp and /var |
| 01:17:37 | lfjewett | Good question AeroSpace? |
| 01:17:47 | Aelhaz | on ipaqs |
| 01:17:54 | lfjewett | Do ether of you have your tuxscreens? |
| 01:17:59 | Aelhaz | I have two of 'em |
| 01:18:11 | Aelhaz | <-- Works with Tim, bought tuxscreens from Mark Oberg |
| 01:18:30 | Aelhaz | Familiar, even |
| 01:19:10 | AeroSpace | I just got through writing a driver to update a EEPROM, what a pain, that one let the processor do the bit banging on a four wire connection. |
| 01:20:06 | AeroSpace | I finally got the money to paypal and sent an e-mail I'm waiting on a response now. |
| 01:20:07 | Aelhaz | AeroSpace: ramdisks should work soon enough tho, I mean, they work on the LART with blob 2.0.3 . . . |
| 01:20:08 | lfjewett | So if what AeroSpace said about setting up a ram block device and formatting/mounting it would work, can you tell me how and I'll give her a try? |
| 01:21:11 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: Familiar seems to have a tarball of the default /tmp and /var hidden in the root, and uses a script at bootup (in linuxrc, or inittab) that creates the ramfs, mounts it, and untars the contents into 'em |
| 01:21:12 | AeroSpace | lfjewett: Ever done that in a regular system? I would think it would be the same. |
| 01:21:32 | lfjewett | No I haven't.. |
| 01:22:04 | Aelhaz | someone should write a block version of jffs2, for CF cards . . . |
| 01:22:58 | AeroSpace | Compile in ram disk support in the kernel or as a module with the size you want it, do mke2fs /dev/ram0, (possibly specifying the block count), then mount /dev/ram0 wherever |
| 01:23:34 | Aelhaz | someone oughta try blob 2.0.4 and see if it supports initrd |
| 01:23:53 | Aelhaz | rather, see if initrd works on the tux |
| 01:24:03 | lfjewett | Aelhaz.. I do have 2.0.4 |
| 01:24:06 | AeroSpace | Or if you want to save your driver from boot to boot make it once and dd it to the root fs before you shutdown and dd it back on bootup, then you only need to mount it. |
| 01:26:40 | AeroSpace | I think the trick though is the normal autodetection for how much space mke2fs detects may fail or take as much space as the ramdisk was configured to give, which is when you have to specify the size. lfjewett: Do you have a nic card in there? Can you just nfs mount something? |
| 01:27:30 | lfjewett | No NIC yet. |
| 01:27:32 | AeroSpace | Or do ppp over the serial port and nfs over that? |
| 01:27:44 | lfjewett | The system is going to eventually be stand alone in a robot. |
| 01:27:49 | lfjewett | his brain so to speak. |
| 01:28:31 | AeroSpace | Now that I'm not the only one thinking along those lines, how do you plan on interfacing any components to the system? |
| 01:28:41 | lfjewett | Going to begin building the power system next week to run it off battery.. |
| 01:29:02 | lfjewett | Over the serial connection at the moment |
| 01:29:34 | AeroSpace | Do you have some decoding chips or are you just going to use the few control wires available? |
| 01:29:51 | lfjewett | I have an ATMEL devel board, and it supports SPI and Serial. |
| 01:30:23 | lfjewett | I have some code to software bit bang the serial interface inside the AVR. |
| 01:30:31 | lfjewett | I think it can do up to 19200. |
| 01:30:52 | AeroSpace | I guess I'm not fimiliar with that. David Fries <dfries@mail.win.org>, I don't know when I might get around to doing anything roboticish, but I'm interested in keeping in contact. |
| 01:31:47 | lfjewett | Cool.. when I actually get the little guy running around I'll send a pic :-) |
| 01:31:52 | Aelhaz | there's an unfilled connector on the tuxscreen system board that i think hooks up to several gpio pins, or something |
| 01:32:40 | lfjewett | I haven't actually taken mine apart yet. Was saving the hardware stuff till I got linux on and working.. |
| 01:32:56 | lfjewett | I thought I saw a PDF of the schematics online somewhere.. those will no doubt help.. |
| 01:33:24 | AeroSpace | My fist robotic project is something to turn up/down the air conditioning knob because it just has a 1 to 10 cold setting and I don't like how well it keeps the temperature. |
| 01:33:48 | Aelhaz | why not go to full electronic controll of the AC? |
| 01:33:49 | AeroSpace | lfjewett: just download the pdf from intel on the processor. |
| 01:34:02 | lfjewett | LOL now that is a worthy project!! |
| 01:34:28 | lfjewett | I ment on their MB.. for connectors and such.. |
| 01:36:19 | Aelhaz | http://www.tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/MainBoard |
| 01:36:29 | Aelhaz | you can see the solder pads for it along the top edge there |
| 01:36:34 | Aelhaz | should be trivial to add the connector |
| 01:37:39 | lfjewett | This is going to be a fun project!.. |
| 01:38:11 | lfjewett | I've learend more about linux and how to compile/develop on it more in the last 2 days than in the past 5 years. |
| 01:43:14 | AeroSpace | Aelhaz: the AC unit is basically a big window unit and it just has knobs sticking out the frong, plus I'm renting so I don't think I want to dig in too much. |
| 01:43:52 | lfjewett | FYI: mount on the tux reveals |
| 01:43:57 | lfjewett | ramfs on /tmp type ramfs (rw) |
| 01:43:57 | lfjewett | ramfs on /var type ramfs (rw) |
| 01:43:57 | lfjewett | proc on /proc type proc (rw) |
| 01:43:57 | lfjewett | devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw) |
| 01:44:18 | AeroSpace | cat /proc/mounts is more reliable |
| 01:44:51 | lfjewett | So It looks like somewhere ramfs is already installed and working.. I confirmed there is a /dev/ram0 and mkfs.minix works on it |
| 01:45:49 | AeroSpace | lfjewett: I assume http://www.atmel.com/ is the site, what's the specific board you have? |
| 01:46:10 | lfjewett | I think I got the older STK200 devel board. |
| 01:46:20 | lfjewett | Have a look at there ARM microcontrolers. |
| 01:46:33 | lfjewett | They are nice little units that only run a few dollars. |
| 01:47:08 | lfjewett | + system componets are simply +5volts and a crystal and a cap.. |
| 01:54:41 | Aelhaz | lfjewett: yeah, ramfs works, it's root-as-a-ramdisk that wasn't working with blob 2.0.3 on the tux |
| 01:54:57 | Aelhaz | which is way different from booting, mounting root, and creating some ramdisks |
| 01:56:45 | AeroSpace | lfjewett: I guess the only reason to get one of their ARM microcontrollers, is if you weren't going to use the tuxscreen? Or do the actually output the voltages for motors etc? |
| 01:56:53 | lfjewett | Starting to get a better idea of that now.. |
| 01:57:28 | lfjewett | No AeroSpace.. the microcontroler is better at low level stuff such as |
| 01:57:48 | lfjewett | PID ( for drive motors ) and interfaceing with TTL sensor devices, such as sonar. |
| 01:58:26 | lfjewett | The code on the ARM will run the actuall hardware via driver chips (LM386 for example) and read sensors via IO lines. |
| 01:58:38 | lfjewett | The ARM M/C |
| 01:58:43 | lfjewett | only have about 4k of flash. |
| 01:58:48 | AeroSpace | I guess I don't know what PID stands for. |
| 01:59:07 | lfjewett | and are 4mhz I believe.. PID is prapotanal intagral drive ( spelling ) |
| 01:59:29 | lfjewett | it is a way of figureing out how much a wheel is turning so the bot can adjust 1 motor slower or faster to keep bot in straight line |
| 02:00:27 | lfjewett | I have 2 motors connected to 2 drive wheels. I can vary there output by controleing the duty cycle from the driver chip. but each motor doesn't turn at exactly the same rate, and there is always wheel slip. |
| 02:00:36 | lfjewett | PID is a way to compensate for those errors. |
| 02:01:23 | lfjewett | basically going to use the microcontroler for the low level control and the Tux for the "brain" |
| 02:02:13 | AeroSpace | Is it integrated with the weel system, or how does it pick up and feedback the turn information? That was something I didn't have much idea about. |
| 02:03:26 | AeroSpace | any web links to the devices, or what to search on? |
| 02:04:40 | lfjewett | A bunch.. |
| 02:04:43 | lfjewett | just not on this PC. |
| 02:04:50 | lfjewett | :-) umm one sec. |
| 02:05:00 | AeroSpace | I got the book, `The Robot Builder's Bonanza' by Gordon McComb that I've started looking though. Sounds like it has some basic ideas on starting out on robots, not much detail so far as I've gotten in the book. |
| 02:05:13 | lfjewett | This is an excelent site. http://www.barello.net/ |
| 02:05:26 | lfjewett | the guy even wrote is own AVR miniOS. |
| 02:05:26 | AeroSpace | Could I get your e-mail address? |
| 02:05:40 | lfjewett | sure llfj3@hotmail.com |
| 02:09:47 | AeroSpace | I was planning on using the Dallas Semiconductor 1-wire devices to contorol things. They have a digital potentiometer, 256 settings, and some switches. They have their own bus they communicate over that just needs a wire and ground, they have interface chips to serial. If I went that route all the logic would be in the computer, it would be more of controlling all the lowlevel stuff. |
| 02:10:46 | AeroSpace | Saves communication protocols for so many little microcontrollers, but the microcotroller approach would distribute the load better. |
| 02:11:30 | lfjewett | Actually for what you want the $2 microcontroler would do just about everything.. no need for the tux |
| 02:11:58 | lfjewett | I've even seen webservers running on the AVR, and someone even made an IDE interface to one and plays MP3's off of it. |
| 02:12:36 | AeroSpace | Which is $2? The ARM one or the AVR? I think most of the 1-wire stuff was more of $3-4 a chip. |
| 02:12:43 | lfjewett | The only reason I need the tux is for Vision system. |
| 02:13:01 | lfjewett | the AVR's are about $2 to $12 a piece. |
| 02:13:12 | GoRK | yo |
| 02:13:15 | lfjewett | but you'd need the development board to flash them. |
| 02:13:28 | AeroSpace | How much do those run? |
| 02:13:45 | lfjewett | I think the board I bought was 100 bucks.. or there abouts.. |
| 02:13:48 | GoRK | hmm ... almost done with picogui keyboard driver |
| 02:14:00 | AeroSpace | Vision generally means camera,s how were you getting that in the tux? |
| 02:14:21 | lfjewett | Very carefully -- in other words read, I have no clue yet. |
| 02:15:16 | AeroSpace | lfjewett: If I was going to do any vision I was planning on just retiring my main system, the case would make a good frame anyway. |
| 02:15:30 | lfjewett | Hoping to create my own Soft vid capture on an AVR, and do some of the basic image processing on that. then serial up the data to a proggie waiting on tux for the input. that will run a neural net against it for pattern recognition. |
| 02:15:57 | lfjewett | LOL yeah but let's see you run your desktop PC off a battery.. |
| 02:16:09 | lfjewett | I'm sure the tux will only draw a few amps or less. |
| 02:16:21 | lfjewett | with the LCD off I'm pretty sure the tux is light on power.. |
| 02:17:32 | AeroSpace | Ya, I figure I only have about 30-40 minutes of power for my UPS with that system, so I would have to string together a few batteries. |
| 02:17:44 | lfjewett | AeroSpace: gotta run off to bed (wife calls) will see you on another time.. check out that URL I sent.. good stuff there.. Night.. |
| 02:18:00 | AeroSpace | good-night, thanks for the ideas. |
| 02:18:15 | lfjewett | remember more bat's = more weight = larger motors = need more bat's = more weight.. you get picture.. |
| 02:18:17 | lfjewett | :-) |
| 02:18:18 | lfjewett | night. |
| 03:00:57 | GoRK | blah libjpeg is large |
| 03:01:30 | Aelhaz | yup |
| 03:06:35 | Aelhaz | Evenin, Tim |
| 03:10:53 | BZFlag | evening |
| 03:12:15 | BZFlag | you try the buildroot image then? |
| 03:14:36 | Aelhaz | Ah, er, not yet :) |
| 03:14:38 | Aelhaz | soon |
| 03:14:46 | Aelhaz | hold on . . |
| 03:15:25 | GoRK | BZFlag: do you know of a smaller libjpeg compatible jpeg library - e.g. only supports reading, etc. ? |
| 03:18:48 | BZFlag | no. |
| 03:20:54 | GoRK | so huge... blah |
| 03:21:16 | BZFlag | png libs are smaller and images are normally a bit smaller, but that's not an option if you want to support DLed images. |
| 03:21:31 | BZFlag | if you can change over to png, you might have better luck. |
| 03:21:55 | GoRK | yeah... qt has a built in decoder but it's CPP and probably more trouble than it's worth to try and port |
| 03:22:00 | BZFlag | also, consider compiling statically to libjpeg, as it may only link in the reading routines. |
| 03:22:16 | GoRK | ahh yes good idea |
| 03:22:31 | BZFlag | no prob. ;-) |
| 03:23:03 | GoRK | im almost through my picogui kbd driver |
| 03:23:37 | BZFlag | Aelhaz: well, I was just dropping in to check the latest. I notice Erik did a few wiki pages. ;-) |
| 03:23:44 | BZFlag | GoRK: nice. |
| 03:23:53 | Aelhaz | BZFlag: I'm flashing the kernel as we type |
| 03:24:18 | BZFlag | I'm off to bed. too late. ;-) must sleep sometime. 14 phones to prepare and ship tomorrow before work. |
| 03:24:27 | BZFlag | cya |
| 03:39:40 | Aelhaz | Looks like udhcpc works, but needs scripts |
| 03:39:49 | Aelhaz | it gets a lease, but isn't able to act on it |
| 03:40:42 | Aelhaz | Ah, ok, it works if you chmod a+x /usr/share/udhcpwhatever |
| 03:40:49 | Aelhaz | coo' |
| 03:42:54 | AlHazTux | Woohoo! |
| 03:43:11 | AlHazTux | OK, so the irc client isn't really on the tux . . . . |
| 03:43:18 | AlHazTux | but at least I'm telnetting from the tux |
| 04:15:23 | GoRK | yo |
| 04:15:50 | AlHaz | hey andersee |
| 04:16:13 | andersee | hey |
| 04:16:22 | AlHaz | tried that kernel & root fs |
| 04:16:25 | AlHaz | Works, mostly |
| 04:16:40 | andersee | mostly? |
| 04:16:43 | AlHaz | udhcpc works fine if i give the default script execute permissions |
| 04:17:13 | AlHaz | if i boot with my cf card in it, it tries to pivot_root, but can't find pivot_root |
| 04:17:43 | AlHaz | and it somehow manages to not set up the nic if i boot with just the nic in it |
| 04:18:06 | GoRK | i dont have that problem with pivot_root when i boot with my cf card.. but then again i dont have a root to pivot to on it |
| 04:18:08 | AlHaz | but if i start rc.pcmcia it comes up |
| 04:18:31 | AlHaz | yeah, there's a somewhat busted familiar root fs on my cf card, need to do that over |
| 04:20:36 | GoRK | andersee: any ideas on shrinking libjpeg? is there something geared towards embedded use (e.g. that supports only read functions) that is libjpeg compatible? |
| 04:21:08 | GoRK | BZFlag also suggested static linking only to libjpeg -- that it might import only the read routines |
| 04:21:19 | AlHaz | I see where someone wrote an irc addon for busybox . . . |
| 04:21:54 | GoRK | someone wrote a quake 3 module for it too |
| 04:23:54 | lfjewett | Hello.. man does everyone in here code for a living? I feel so behind listening to irc now :) |
| 04:24:13 | AlHaz | http://c93.keble.ox.ac.uk/~ian/stic/ |
| 04:24:37 | AlHaz | lfjewett: Nah, I just break code |
| 04:24:41 | GoRK | i can't code at all but i wrote a touchscreen driver for picogui!!! |
| 04:25:02 | GoRK | i am a cut and paste coder |
| 04:25:06 | lfjewett | LOL that is beyond me Mr GoRK |
| 04:25:23 | lfjewett | Whoo hooo. Someone I can relate too :-) |
| 04:25:23 | GoRK | yeah it's beyond me too but damned if it doesnt work like a champ |
| 04:26:13 | lfjewett | anyone have a link to documentation on uClibc? I keep getting an error "can't resolve symbol 'stdin'" and I'm trying to figure out why |
| 04:26:44 | GoRK | let me guess: using old binaries with something you built with the new build system? |
| 04:27:50 | lfjewett | In other words build the system again and reflash the tuxscreen with an updated image huh. |
| 04:28:04 | GoRK | well what programs are giving you the errors? |
| 04:28:14 | lfjewett | One I wrote. |
| 04:28:37 | GoRK | did you build it against the uclibc from the buildroot-tux tree? |
| 04:28:45 | lfjewett | yes. |
| 04:28:48 | GoRK | hmm |
| 04:29:00 | lfjewett | But the stuff on my tux screen could be old. |
| 04:29:14 | lfjewett | I got it from the tarball, not CVS like others suggested. |
| 04:30:14 | GoRK | ok that's your problem |
| 04:30:26 | GoRK | you should be running the rootfs from the build system |
| 04:31:06 | lfjewett | I will rebuild and flash it now. |
| 04:46:09 | andersee | GoRK: Sorry about that... I'm back. |
| 04:46:47 | andersee | Yes, if you are only linking 1 app vs libjpeg, then static linking would be certainly be a win |
| 04:48:58 | GoRK | cool |
| 04:49:10 | GoRK | hey what is the easiest way to disable console blanking? |
| 04:49:34 | GoRK | i have been looking for a quick way to do this without modifying the kernel source) but i cant find it |
| 04:50:01 | GoRK | and of course busybox doesn't have 'setterm' in it :) |
| 04:50:51 | GoRK | i think cosmicpenguin did it by changing the kernel source for his microwindows distro |
| 04:52:17 | GoRK | and another quick q ... should i be using --build=arm-linux or something else for configure? |
| 04:52:33 | GoRK | sorry to ask all these silly questions :) |
| 04:57:54 | lfjewett | If you think those are silly questions GoRK, Now I really feel bad.. untill someone with more brains that me gets to your ?, how about when building the buildroot it errors on mkfs.jffs2: boot/var/tmp: has no parent directory! |
| 04:59:20 | GoRK | hmm tricky. you might try rm -rf mtd root ; make |
| 04:59:22 | Meatsicle | man you up late |
| 04:59:41 | lfjewett | guess it can't hurt, doesn't work now anyway right :-) |
| 05:03:03 | lfjewett | That worked BTW. |
| 05:03:15 | lfjewett | though I have no idea why. :0) |
| 05:04:48 | GoRK | mkfs.jffs2 is compiled in the mtd directory. removing it forces the build system to update the source tree for mtd and recompile mkfs.jffs2 among other things |
| 05:07:41 | lfjewett | ok, makes sence. |
| 05:08:40 | GoRK | static linking to libjpeg does help.. cool |
| 05:09:04 | GoRK | picogui apps will all have access to jpeg through the server |
| 05:09:11 | GoRK | so no need for 200k of libjpeg on there |
| 05:09:15 | GoRK | and that is before stripping |
| 05:10:12 | Meatsicle | whose stripping? |
| 05:11:36 | lfjewett | GoRK are you trying to get your box to display Jpeg's? |
| 05:12:28 | GoRK | i am stripping. .. . or i will be :) |
| 05:12:44 | Meatsicle | uh oh |
| 05:12:45 | GoRK | no im just adding jpeg support to picogui... mainly so i can use the aqua theme :) hehehe |
| 05:12:53 | lfjewett | Boy I can't wait till IRC gets video chat ... |
| 05:13:07 | Meatsicle | all that just to get a theme? |
| 05:13:27 | lfjewett | Now that man has a mission in life... I love it.. |
| 05:14:03 | Meatsicle | hehehe |
| 05:15:25 | lfjewett | Answer a simple question, if running a make on buildroot-tux recreates the jffs2 root filesystem, how do you get an updated kernel? |
| 05:16:54 | GoRK | no actually i want the bouncyball demo to run |
| 05:17:07 | GoRK | turns out jpeg support didnt help aqua. nothing short of 16 bit color will help that, i fear |
| 05:17:13 | GoRK | maybe i will make an aqua8 theme |
| 05:17:45 | GoRK | lfjewett: buildroot tux makes the kernel too. why, do you want to patch it? |
| 05:18:08 | lfjewett | No, just trying to learn this all.. it's a bunch to take in for a newb. |
| 05:18:33 | lfjewett | the date on the tuxscreen-kernel file didn't change when I ran make, so I didn't know. |
| 05:21:37 | GoRK | sweet. jpeg support working like a champ |
| 05:21:58 | GoRK | well it doesnt recompile the kernel if you havent made any changes that necessitate it |
| 05:22:26 | lfjewett | Gotcha. |
| 05:23:53 | lfjewett | The old kernel/rootfs I was running was from the microwindows distro on tuxscreen.net it had a utility (zr I think) that allowed it to recieve Zmodem upload over the null modem.. do you know how to move files up now that I don't have that.. man I promise after this question I'm off to bed :-) |
| 05:27:09 | GoRK | rz |
| 05:27:16 | GoRK | were you using it before? |
| 05:27:31 | GoRK | i have binaries compiled against the buildsystem's uclibc |
| 05:27:56 | GoRK | you can put them in your root dir, run make, reflash the image then use rz/sz as before |
| 05:29:37 | GoRK | http://www.blurbco.com/~gork/tuxscreen/rz |
| 05:29:38 | GoRK | http://www.blurbco.com/~gork/tuxscreen/sz |
| 05:29:54 | GoRK | dont forget to chmod a+x them |
| 05:36:14 | lfjewett | Where did you get the sources for those GoRK, just so I can peice the puzzle togather, and hopefully not have to ask so many questions in the future. |
| 05:38:37 | Meatsicle | what does gork stand for anyway? |
| 05:40:21 | GoRK | gork n. A person whose brain has suffered severe and irreversible damage and whose life is being sustained by artificial means |
| 05:42:02 | Meatsicle | I see... |
| 05:42:18 | lfjewett | LOL |
| 05:42:30 | lfjewett | O' and you were an awsome help GoRK thanks!!! |
| 05:42:42 | lfjewett | I got my app loaded to the tux and it ran with no trouble. |
| 05:44:59 | lfjewett | Night all... |
| 10:43:23 | ctr | is away: going t'shops |
| 12:39:39 | haydnjones | is this part of the tux box project? |
| 12:46:33 | haydnjones | can anyone give me anyinfo on the tux phone.... i like the look of it, i may want one |
| 12:48:24 | haydnjones | sorry TuxScreen |
| 12:49:17 | blzbubba | what kind of info do you need? |
| 12:49:31 | blzbubba | there is lots of into on http://tuxscreen.net |
| 12:49:54 | haydnjones | dose it wor on uk lines |
| 12:50:00 | blzbubba | arm cpu, 2 pcmcia slots, 4mb flash and like 16mb ram |
| 12:50:04 | haydnjones | how do i add a camera |
| 12:50:17 | blzbubba | i don't know if the phone works at all under linux; but it's just a standard analog phone |
| 12:50:40 | blzbubba | i'm not sure how a camera would work either. it would have to be accessible with pcmcia, probably |
| 12:50:46 | blzbubba | or else over the network |
| 12:50:51 | haydnjones | dose it acces the internet? |
| 12:53:31 | haydnjones | i want to be able to use somthing as a backup for keeping online while i use my computer fore somthing else |
| 12:54:47 | haydnjones | anyone on here use one? |
| 12:57:26 | blzbubba | i was able to use mine on the internet |
| 12:57:39 | blzbubba | it is really a toy at this point, though. |
| 12:58:02 | haydnjones | is sounds fun |
| 12:58:31 | haydnjones | anygood to learn to program? |
| 12:58:51 | blzbubba | it is. i use mine as an x server; i'll probably just use it for a simple living room browser |
| 12:59:02 | blzbubba | so I don't have to walk all the way over into the next room |
| 12:59:28 | haydnjones | you got an irc client on it? |
| 12:59:53 | blzbubba | it has a full kde desktop |
| 12:59:56 | cworth | mine is working great as a nice small X terminal. |
| 12:59:57 | blzbubba | i use mine via X |
| 13:00:02 | blzbubba | but some people use arm debian |
| 13:00:11 | haydnjones | oka for games? |
| 13:00:28 | haydnjones | i see doom for arm pdas |
| 13:00:53 | haydnjones | (wince though) |
| 13:01:15 | haydnjones | why is it so cheap? |
| 13:03:59 | haydnjones | how do you transfre data to it... could use a compact flash reader? |
| 13:06:46 | blzbubba | network |
| 13:06:50 | blzbubba | serial actually |
| 13:07:04 | blzbubba | we have doom ported to linux |
| 13:07:20 | blzbubba | i don't think this would be a good game machine. maybe solitaire |
| 13:13:16 | CosmicPenguin | Hey all... beautiful PicoGUI screenshots! |
| 13:24:38 | CosmicPenguin | Any other sourceforge project members having trouble with SSH cvs downloads? |
| 14:12:20 | ctr | is away: brb |
| 14:12:30 | ctr | is away: brb - going to the post office |
| 14:55:15 | RobFlynn | Hey Russ|werk |
| 15:40:06 | Russ|werk | mroning |
| 15:41:20 | AlHazWork | mroning |
| 15:43:59 | ctr | morning people |
| 15:44:13 | pattieja | morning ctr |
| 15:44:40 | CosmicPenguin | ctr: Hows it going? Do you have ferrite compiled for uclibc yet? |
| 15:44:47 | ctr | hehe |
| 15:44:52 | ctr | need to order my phone :) |
| 15:44:54 | Russ|werk | maybe I need some caffine before I can wish people a good morning |
| 15:44:56 | ctr | just about to sort itout |
| 15:45:43 | ctr | AlHaz, do youwork with tim? |
| 15:45:54 | ctr | Your credit card is confirmed! You may now make payments with this card. |
| 15:45:57 | ctr | w0000yh0000000jewipf'jw' |
| 15:45:57 | ctr | :) |
| 15:46:15 | AlHazWork | ctr: Yeah, I do work with tim |
| 15:46:24 | ctr | ok |
| 15:46:31 | ctr | i wanna make an order :) |
| 15:46:35 | ctr | how do i do it :) |
| 15:46:36 | AlHazWork | when he gets into work today we can work out the nic thing |
| 15:46:41 | ctr | ok |
| 15:46:57 | AlHazWork | prolly, you pay me for the nic, and pay tim for the phone plus shipping for phone & nic (not much more, iirc) |
| 15:47:02 | AlHazWork | and i'll hand the nic to tim to shove into the box |
| 15:47:12 | ctr | can i pay tim for the nic |
| 15:47:17 | ctr | and get him to pay you :) |
| 15:47:24 | AlHazWork | *shrug* you'll have to ask tim about that |
| 15:47:28 | ctr | k |
| 15:47:36 | ctr | whens he likely to be about? |
| 15:48:03 | ctr | wonders when Tesco will be here |
| 15:48:14 | AlHazWork | he's got 14 phones to ship this morning, so maybe another hour or two |
| 15:48:20 | ctr | k |
| 15:48:30 | ctr | how much do you want for the nic? |
| 15:50:13 | AlHazWork | *shrug* idunno, $25? |
| 15:50:25 | ctr | k |
| 15:50:26 | AlHazWork | bbiab |
| 16:02:48 | AlHazWork | Mornin, Tim |
| 16:04:37 | BZFlag | morn |
| 16:05:05 | AlHazWork | the image i got out of the build system mostly kinda sorta works |
| 16:06:08 | AlHazWork | on normal bootup with just a nic in the phone, it doesn't come up properly. With no pcmcia cards, it comes up but cardmanager isn't started. With a cf card in there with a root fs on it, it tries to pivot_root but can't find pivot_root |
| 16:06:20 | AlHazWork | udhcpc works fine once you give the default script execute permissions |
| 16:14:44 | ctr | BZFlag, morning :) |
| 16:14:50 | ctr | BZFlag, would like to make an order |
| 16:15:04 | BZFlag | all minor buglets. we'll fixem. thanx. |
| 16:15:18 | BZFlag | ctr: sure. makeing out some orders right now. |
| 16:15:21 | AlHazWork | I can post more details tonight if you want 'em |
| 16:31:56 | CosmicPenguin | BZFlag: CVS access with SSH wasn't liking me very much today... anyone else have problems? |
| 16:32:17 | ctr | CosmicPenguin, just made a purchse |
| 16:32:24 | ctr | CosmicPenguin, i should be hack0ring within the week :) |
| 16:32:28 | CosmicPenguin | ctr - Rock on |
| 16:32:40 | BZFlag | they did an ldap upgrade saturday iirc. might be caus eof that. can you get on the web interface? |
| 16:32:53 | ctr | first i will port ferite to get my cross dev environment up and running |
| 16:32:57 | ctr | then i shall port Imlib2 and evas |
| 16:33:03 | ctr | to microwindows |
| 16:33:13 | CosmicPenguin | BZFlag: I haven't tried. SSH login works great, but when I try to do a checkout, it complains that it can't chdir to my home dir |
| 16:33:15 | ctr | and help hack core compononents |
| 16:33:21 | CosmicPenguin | ctr: beautiful... ;) |
| 16:33:33 | CosmicPenguin | <--- Has to learn Ferrite now.... |
| 16:33:46 | ctr | ferite |
| 16:33:49 | ctr | only one 'r' |
| 16:33:50 | ctr | :) |
| 16:35:07 | ctr | is all excited now |
| 16:35:16 | ctr | all i need now |
| 16:35:23 | ctr | is for my groceries to turn up |
| 16:35:31 | ctr | then i can chill and go out and have a good time |
| 16:35:56 | ctr | and onsaturday |
| 16:36:04 | ctr | i can get my firewall and network re-rigged |
| 16:50:57 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 16:52:27 | AlHazWork | Howdy as |
| 16:53:14 | as_ | AlHaz :] |
| 17:02:50 | ctr | w000h000 |
| 17:02:54 | ctr | shopping arrived :) |
| 17:13:23 | GoRK | CosmicPenguin: are you here? |
| 17:14:06 | GoRK | btw thanks re: picogui screens |
| 17:14:54 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: No problem - they look good. Are they demo apps or custom for the Tuxscreen? |
| 17:15:52 | GoRK | what do you mean by custom for the tux? i didn't write the apps . they're just canvastest dialogtest, etc |
| 17:16:22 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: I was wondering if you made an app for the tuxscreen (address book, etc...) |
| 17:16:35 | GoRK | i am still struggling with a couple little bugs... terminal widget doesnt work and mouse cursor leaves garbage when you move it. plus i haven't finished the keyboard driver yet |
| 17:16:41 | CosmicPenguin | But demo apps are ok... we must crawl before we run... :) |
| 17:16:57 | GPSFan | Good Morning (of afternoon) BZFlag: might you answer a few questions regarding some problems I'm having upgrading Inferno? |
| 17:17:05 | GoRK | oh no not nearly that far along. although picogui is so easy those will only take a few hours. i also dont have a NIC yet so.. that is a problem for my development |
| 17:17:22 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: *nod* |
| 17:19:14 | GoRK | i was going to ask you how you disabled console blanking for your microwindows distro [and also blanking the fb cursor for that matter..]. (i got the patch to add the backlight/brightness/contrast controls from russ already and added it into the touchscreen driver) -- but did you modify the kernel source in console.c to turn off blanking or use something in userspace? i'd like to do something in userland but i can't find how to do it |
| 17:19:39 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: Thats a mouthful! :) |
| 17:20:02 | GoRK | yeah i didnt realize how ridiculously much i typed till i hit enter |
| 17:20:14 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: I didn't do anything speicfic for console blanking, I believe that Microwindows handles that internally.... |
| 17:20:26 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: wait one, I'll check the code.... |
| 17:20:50 | GoRK | cool i can probably look too though i dont know exactly what files to probe through |
| 17:23:43 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: Yep... looks like we are opening up /dev/tty0, and sending it a ioctl(fd, KDSTEMODE, KD_GRAPHICS) |
| 17:24:09 | CosmicPenguin | console.c mentions that we don't blank a graphics screen (console.c :2666) |
| 17:24:34 | CosmicPenguin | s/KDSTEMODE/KDSETMODE/ |
| 17:24:42 | GoRK | ahhh very spiffy i'll throw that in there |
| 17:25:11 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: Then, when you're done, fire back a KD_TEXT to put it back into text mode |
| 17:26:00 | GoRK | so that should take care of the cursor and extraneous cruft problems too, huh? |
| 17:26:27 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: As far as I know... |
| 17:26:39 | GoRK | e.g. text printing... Cool well i shall check it out |
| 17:30:22 | mallum | Hi all |
| 17:30:47 | mallum | Has there been any more progress on the ts 'issues' ? |
| 17:31:10 | GoRK | which issues? |
| 17:31:27 | mallum | It not working on some machines |
| 17:31:33 | GoRK | oh, those |
| 17:31:38 | GoRK | do you have one of those? |
| 17:32:06 | mallum | yep, well one - havn't tested the other yet |
| 17:35:26 | GoRK | have you talked to russ? |
| 17:36:04 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: I have the very weak beginnings of code that might be able to help..... |
| 17:36:19 | mallum | not personally, I think BZFlag was working on it - I just wanted to find out if theres been any progress |
| 17:36:30 | CosmicPenguin | It was/is designed to help fix jitter, but it actually tries to read the various edges.... |
| 17:36:43 | CosmicPenguin | Feel like some kernel hacking? |
| 17:37:00 | mallum | /me hides |
| 17:37:24 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: :-) |
| 17:37:33 | GoRK | i think a big jitter fixer would just be to average 5 samples or so in the driver - or have an ioctl to set the average samples like other touchscreen drivers... |
| 17:37:39 | mallum | I could have a look, wont be able tonight though |
| 17:37:52 | mallum | what do I need to look at ? |
| 17:38:08 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: There are 4 ways to read the X and Y values from the UCB.... |
| 17:38:33 | CosmicPenguin | GoRK: BZFlag sez that Shaggy sez that averaging those values does a very good job of eliminating jitter.... |
| 17:39:19 | GoRK | well if shaggy says so ... :) |
| 17:39:29 | GoRK | btw is he interested in this linux project at all? |
| 17:39:58 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: Ok, I'll push that to the top of my list and work on that tonight..... |
| 17:40:19 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: cool, that would be great |
| 17:40:35 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: Im looking at ucb120_ts.c now |
| 17:40:37 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: I can always use blzbubba's Tuxscreen to test it out.... |
| 17:40:49 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: Yeah, see how they setup the read_x_value and read_y_value functions? |
| 17:40:51 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: I never touched a line of kernel code before though |
| 17:41:17 | mallum | yep |
| 17:41:26 | CosmicPenguin | Thats where all the good stuff has to go. |
| 17:41:43 | mallum | ok Im lost now ;) |
| 17:41:51 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: No problem, give me 24 hours.... |
| 17:42:05 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: muchious gratious :) |
| 17:42:05 | GoRK | mmm good stuff |
| 17:42:33 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: Id be up for the challange if I had more time, but gf needs my attention this evening ... |
| 17:42:53 | GoRK | who if anyone is currently working on the DSP? |
| 17:43:34 | mallum | Also while I've got your attension , running Python on the new buildroot images prodices a strange 'undefined symbol _stdin' error before a segfault |
| 17:44:04 | mallum | it says undefined _stdout, and _stderr too |
| 17:44:10 | mallum | it worked fine old older images |
| 17:44:29 | mallum | any idea what it could be ? Or should I hassle andersee ? |
| 17:44:30 | GoRK | you have to recompile it against the uclibc in the buildroot-tux directory |
| 17:44:38 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: I'm using the gf excuse for the lack of code over the last week.... |
| 17:44:41 | GoRK | i had that problem with all old binaries |
| 17:44:55 | GoRK | had to recompile lrzsz |
| 17:45:02 | mallum | GoRK: you had to rebuild them against build-root libs ? |
| 17:45:10 | GoRK | yeah |
| 17:45:20 | mallum | ok, thats all I need to know :-) |
| 17:45:49 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: Also I've nearly got a beta of an xkbd rewrite togeather |
| 17:45:53 | GoRK | i think some symbols changed in uclibc |
| 17:46:00 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: kewl... |
| 17:46:16 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: the code is alot cleaner and should be easier to port to microwindows |
| 17:46:29 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: as the X stuff is more segregated |
| 17:46:37 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: Let me know when I can get some code.... |
| 17:46:57 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: sure... I covertly hacking on it at work at the moment |
| 17:47:41 | mallum | is thankful for quick switchable workspaces... |
| 17:50:43 | cory | m kyrka programing 1 |
| 17:52:02 | cory | woops |
| 17:52:11 | cory | I guess everyone knows that I am taking programming 1, to my eternal shame :( |
| 18:40:45 | | andersee was last seen on #tuxscreen 13 hours, 53 minutes and 58 seconds ago, saying: Yes, if you are only linking 1 app vs libjpeg, then static linking would be certainly be a win [Mon Sep 17 05:46:47 2001] |
| 18:40:45 | vosque | ibot, seen andersee? |
| 18:41:05 | vosque | whoa |
| 18:41:06 | vosque | what timing |
| 18:43:11 | vosque | heh.. or not |
| 18:44:15 | andersee | vosque: are you mocking my timing? |
| 18:44:18 | andersee | :) |
| 18:46:06 | vosque | haha |
| 18:46:13 | vosque | Question about busybox.. |
| 18:46:21 | andersee | answer about busybox |
| 18:46:28 | vosque | WHat do I have to do to get it to start resolving DNS? |
| 18:46:39 | vosque | I thought I had it right, but I must be doing something wrong. |
| 18:46:47 | andersee | /etc/resolve.conf exist? |
| 18:46:57 | vosque | yeah |
| 18:47:03 | vosque | has one nameserver entry. |
| 18:47:14 | vosque | which I *can* see. |
| 18:47:25 | andersee | /etc/hosts? |
| 18:47:37 | vosque | exists.. nothing in it |
| 18:48:21 | CosmicPenguin | vosque: What are you trying to use DNS with (ping, konq, e-mail, etc...) |
| 18:49:36 | vosque | right now just the nslookup telnet and ping builtins |
| 18:49:46 | vosque | The only thing on the machine is tinylogin and busybox, as of yet. |
| 18:50:15 | andersee | Odd. |
| 18:50:25 | andersee | really needs to obtain a nic |
| 18:51:28 | vosque | built against glibc, if that means anything |
| 18:51:41 | andersee | Ahh. That explains a great deal. |
| 18:52:24 | andersee | Glibc needs an /etc/nsswitch.conf file, /lib/libresolv and lib/nss_files at a minimum |
| 18:52:47 | andersee | Also, make sure /etc/services and /etc/protocols are present |
| 18:52:49 | vosque | ah, and there we are. |
| 18:52:55 | vosque | those already are |
| 18:53:06 | vosque | is trying to build the smallest possible system using glibc. |
| 18:53:16 | andersee | make sure you nsswitch.conf file mentions only nss_files |
| 18:53:20 | vosque | A daunting task, to say the least. |
| 18:53:51 | andersee | Trust me when I say that I feel your pain. |
| 18:54:22 | vosque | alright, lemme load all the junk up. |
| 18:54:25 | CosmicPenguin | vosque: You may also need nscd.... I know that I do on my glibc implementation..... |
| 18:54:25 | vosque | THanks a lot |
| 18:54:34 | vosque | I'll check it out |
| 18:54:40 | CosmicPenguin | or rather, the one huge annoying file that has to use glibc... :) |
| 18:54:54 | vosque | haha |
| 18:55:03 | vosque | is working with QPE on the tux.. |
| 18:55:10 | vosque | I got it going, but it's a C++ app. |
| 18:55:21 | vosque | I think I can get a useable installation on the 4meg of flash |
| 18:55:30 | vosque | maybe. |
| 18:55:57 | CosmicPenguin | vosque: If I can get off my butt, I will try to write a uclibc friendly version of nscd..... |
| 18:56:18 | vosque | rock on |
| 18:57:00 | CosmicPenguin | That is of course,Of course, there is one other alternative, right andersee?? :-) |
| 18:57:15 | CosmicPenguin | s/That is of course,// |
| 18:57:45 | BZFlag | GPSFan: it would help if you asked the questios. |
| 18:58:15 | BZFlag | shaggy is following the linux port with interest, but he is swamped with a savaje release right now. |
| 18:58:59 | BZFlag | any other ?s for me? |
| 19:12:28 | GPSFan | BZFlag, |
| 19:12:55 | GPSFan | Hi, I've had some problems trying to flash the Inferno upgrade. |
| 19:13:53 | GPSFan | When I give the rdb c/u...... command it drops back into the emu prompt. I've successfully unlocked the flash, and can backup the F!all partition. |
| 19:14:28 | GPSFan | I am using Win98, and I just read that there may be a problem with the emu, so I'm looking at setting up a Linux box |
| 19:14:43 | BZFlag | c D!newinferno.img.gz F!all <- does not work? It should. |
| 19:15:01 | GPSFan | to try Inferno Remote on that. I was hoping to use Win98. |
| 19:15:52 | GPSFan | The Tux is sitting there waiting for data, the progress bar shows 0 bytes transferred, but the rdb session seems to have crashed. |
| 19:19:19 | GPSFan | Since asking at 12:20 I'v e read through all the wikis again and found a note saying that there was a problem using the Windows version of Inferno Remote, and thet the Linux worked fine. |
| 19:22:40 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: another alternative? |
| 19:22:48 | andersee | looks puzzled |
| 19:23:42 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: C++ with uclibc?? .. :) |
| 19:24:46 | andersee | Oh yeah. That. |
| 19:25:32 | andersee | I'm working on it -- but I've been putting most of my effort in this consulting job I'm doing (since I have to pay for things like food)... |
| 19:26:09 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: I totally understand... |
| 19:26:24 | CosmicPenguin | I think we can do without DNS for while.... |
| 19:26:31 | andersee | I should be finishing a large deliverable today or tomorrow at worst ($9k), and then I'll be able to take the time to get c++ going. |
| 19:26:57 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: Know of any companies that wat to pay me to get c++ working? hint, hint. |
| 19:27:32 | CosmicPenguin | I know of one company, but all the executives are at lunch right now... :) |
| 19:28:32 | andersee | oh well. |
| 19:28:51 | andersee | speaking of lunch, I think I'll go find some... |
| 19:33:21 | BZFlag | GPSFan: I have not tried the win32 version. The linux version works for me with the emu update as I'm on 2.4.x |
| 19:33:24 | BZFlag | to work... |
| 20:25:57 | andersee | Bah, someone broke /proc/partitions |
| 20:26:42 | AlHazWork | mtd partitions are listed in /proc/mtd, aren't they? |
| 20:29:14 | andersee | I'm being off-topic. Sorry. The latest ac kernel appears to have hosed up linux/drivers/scsi/sd.c |
| 20:29:44 | AlHazWork | ah |
| 20:29:49 | AlHazWork | that would be bad |
| 20:32:07 | andersee | brb |
| 20:38:35 | andersee | k, fixed it |
| 20:43:11 | Russ|werk | good thing I didn't try that kernel |
| 20:43:26 | CosmicPenguin | AC himself said that it would probably not boot.... |
| 20:44:06 | andersee | Thats ac11 -- I'm on ac10 |
| 20:44:17 | CosmicPenguin | Ahh.... |
| 20:44:17 | andersee | That is alledgedly stable. |
| 20:45:45 | andersee | Taking a look, I think it as to do with the 2048 byte physical sector size on the MO disks I'm working with |
| 20:46:05 | andersee | I fixed it by reverting drivers/scsi/sd.c to stock 2.4.9 |
| 20:52:48 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: Nice sig on your LKML message... :) |
| 20:54:01 | andersee | the "formerly" bit? ;-) |
| 20:54:14 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: Yep.... |
| 20:55:34 | andersee | Worth it if it stings a bit, and may even do me some good as advertising.. |
| 21:10:44 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: Is there someplace around SLC that sells a NIC that works in the phone? |
| 21:11:10 | blzbubba | andersee you can order them through software & more |
| 21:11:19 | blzbubba | they don't have a ton in stock at the moment though |
| 21:11:47 | andersee | which NIC? |
| 21:11:55 | andersee | 10/100? |
| 21:12:16 | blzbubba | i asked for the trend net one, but bought a kingston before they could call me back |
| 21:12:17 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: I doubt it... CompUseless would be the best bet, but historically they're not known for variety... |
| 21:12:35 | andersee | Or sane prices... |
| 21:15:52 | Sebas | good evening |
| 21:16:46 | CosmicPenguin | Sebas: hello! |
| 21:17:45 | Sebas | is there a way a "bad" kernel could have blown blob? |
| 21:19:11 | CosmicPenguin | Well.... Thats possible, but I would think that it would take some deliberate "evil" hacking to make it happen.... |
| 21:20:56 | Sebas | I had the "official" image from tuxscreen.net installed and working |
| 21:21:22 | Sebas | I compiled my own with "buildroot" |
| 21:21:33 | Sebas | I tried to flash them, but blob was giving me some errors |
| 21:21:40 | Sebas | rebooted, tried again... nothing... |
| 21:21:57 | Sebas | rebooted... downloaded the images, same error... but then I booted from the downloaded images in ram... |
| 21:22:10 | Sebas | Linux booted... panicked about the lack of "root" |
| 21:22:20 | Sebas | And then blob was gone... dead... no more "LARTed" |
| 21:24:00 | CosmicPenguin | What errors from blob? |
| 21:27:47 | Sebas | "Erase Error: 0x0040000" / "Write Error: 0x0050000" |
| 21:27:59 | Sebas | I don't remember the addresses exactly (and didn't wrote them down) |
| 21:28:20 | Sebas | but I'm almost sure the two numbers were different, and they had four trailing zeroes (thus above 64K) |
| 21:50:48 | BZFlag | Sebas: if you set your terminal to 9600 n81 no handshaking and unplug and reconnect the power to the phone, what do you see on serial? |
| 21:58:07 | Sebas | BZFlag: nothing... absolutelly nothing (unless it's sending spaces or nulls) |
| 22:10:37 | BZFlag | Sebas: and your _sure_ the above is correct, ie: the right cable, connected on both ends, one terminal app on the right port at 9600 8n1 no handshaking, power cables connected, etc? |
| 22:11:34 | Sebas | yes... |
| 22:11:54 | BZFlag | did you specify a kernel command line? you did not say root=/dev/mtdblock0 did you? That might cause it to write to the boot block. |
| 22:12:02 | Sebas | just unplugged the tuxscreen, unpacked my second unit... plugged it to the same set of cables, and some trash came on the serial port (I haven't installed anything on it yet) |
| 22:12:28 | Sebas | nop... "download kernel"... "flash kernel"... error... "boot"... |
| 22:12:43 | Sebas | I'm not sure if I did a "download ramdisk" on that ocasion |
| 22:12:48 | BZFlag | blob version? 2.0.4? |
| 22:13:09 | Sebas | yes 2.0.4 |
| 22:13:16 | BZFlag | you did the unlock, or me? |
| 22:13:37 | Sebas | you unlocked it |
| 22:13:45 | BZFlag | hmm... |
| 22:13:50 | RobFlynn | BZFlag: Do you know if anyone has made any more progress w/ the DSP ? |
| 22:13:53 | Sebas | and I had already installed the "original" linux from tuxscreen.net |
| 22:13:59 | BZFlag | RobFlynn: none reported. |
| 22:14:01 | RobFlynn | Or am I gonna have to punch kram in the head and make him work ;-) |
| 22:14:13 | RobFlynn | Ok. Ill take this as an opportunity to punch him :) |
| 22:14:41 | BZFlag | Sebas: sounds like you need jtag to fix it. =( |
| 22:14:59 | Sebas | yeah... that's what I was fearing |
| 22:15:11 | Sebas | well... at least I have a second unit to play around meanwhile |
| 22:16:00 | BZFlag | save the logs this time. |
| 22:16:04 | Sebas | I will |
| 22:16:09 | BZFlag | cool. |
| 22:21:32 | AlHazWork | still has a jtag kit for sale, but is getting tired of mentioning that |
| 22:23:39 | as_ | What software is used with the jtag interface, is it just a bootloader, or what? |
| 22:24:20 | AlHazWork | so far I think we've only used it to program the flash |
| 22:24:47 | as_ | Will it do other things, and is it strongarm specific, are there scripts, or what? |
| 22:27:12 | as_ | I mention it, becuase so far Ive found no general JTAG programs, only specific programs, for whatever type interface the author had at the time. |
| 22:28:51 | AlHazWork | oh, well, as i understand it, JTAG is a wide open sort of spec. iirc, the phone only supports a subset of that spec. I don't know about the dongle itself, but i doubt it's strongarm specific |
| 22:29:43 | as_ | The dongle wont be, but the software probably will. JTAG alows the designers to specify the 'instruction set' it uses. |
| 22:29:49 | AlHazWork | I'm not the best person to ask . . . |
| 22:30:06 | AlHazWork | well, the jflash program is specific to this particular phone, iirc |
| 22:30:13 | as_ | Your here, your talking, that makes you the best person to ask currently ;] |
| 22:30:18 | AlHazWork | heh |
| 22:30:25 | as_ | That makes sense. |
| 22:30:58 | AlHazWork | I'm harassing a british engineer via our bugtracking system, but i have time to talk between bugs now and then |
| 22:31:19 | as_ | Harrasing for what may I ask? |
| 22:32:38 | AlHazWork | harassing for having a habit of firing a bunch of stuff into CVS, and then taking the attitude "Well it works here, ship it!" |
| 22:32:53 | AlHazWork | and dragging his heels on fixes |
| 22:32:53 | as_ | CVS? |
| 22:33:03 | | cvs is at http://www.handhelds.org/sources.html or at http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ |
| 22:33:03 | AlHazWork | ibot: cvs? |
| 22:33:05 | AlHazWork | heh |
| 22:33:15 | AlHazWork | CVS is Concurrent Versioning System, i think |
| 22:33:20 | as_ | Ahh, I'll look. |
| 22:33:23 | AlHazWork | source library sorta thing |
| 22:33:30 | as_ | I see. |
| 22:33:47 | AlHazWork | good way to maintain distributed projects, you check in and check out changes incrementally, etc |
| 22:34:03 | AlHazWork | So, we don't hear from him for a month, he says "it's done!" |
| 22:34:07 | AlHazWork | and then doesn't want to touch it again |
| 22:34:14 | as_ | May I ask who wrote jflash? |
| 22:34:23 | AlHazWork | He put down "Can't Reproduce" for a doc bug today. Fah. |
| 22:34:46 | AlHazWork | so today, every symptom of the same bug gets it's own bug number. |
| 22:34:52 | as_ | lol. Must have a sense of humor then. |
| 22:35:25 | AlHazWork | he'd overlooked a step with regard to setting up a piece of hardware. He can't reproduce it because, he didn't set up his hardware, someone else did |
| 22:36:19 | as_ | Is he the only person that can alter his code, ie is it not well commented or? |
| 22:36:48 | AlHazWork | I can appriciate that he probably has other projects to work on, but it can't take that long to edit the docs and add a paragraph explaining that some boards ship from the factory w/o a serial eeprom on the nic, thus requiring the user to manually configure the mac address in the boot loader. |
| 22:37:20 | AlHazWork | he's the only person that's supposed to. I suppose i could, if i knew what i was doing, but currently my orders are to bughunt. |
| 22:37:32 | AlHazWork | <-- can't code fer shit |
| 22:37:50 | as_ | I cant code C. |
| 22:38:14 | as_ | C++ is evil, so I dont care I cant code that. |
| 22:38:38 | as_ | But writing large programs in x86 asm, is long and slow. |
| 22:38:45 | BZFlag | as_: AlHazWork is right about the jflash. |
| 22:38:48 | AlHazWork | from a QA perspective, I need to be working with what the customer would work with. One of the problems with developers is that they work with random snapshots of software rather than released versions |
| 22:39:12 | BZFlag | it should work on any strongarm, but the flash code is specific to the AMD chips the tux uses. |
| 22:39:20 | as_ | Makes sense BZ, I was hoping for the existance of a configureable program. |
| 22:39:30 | AlHazWork | and this one in particular doesn't think there's anything wrong with that, to the extent that he resists fixing his code to be backward compatible with the shipped version |
| 22:40:01 | as_ | And the way the strongarm is wired to the flash Id think, presumably it uses boundry scan to program it? |
| 22:40:07 | BZFlag | as_: none that I know of. |
| 22:40:11 | BZFlag | yes. |
| 22:40:55 | as_ | btw, still no account details, since this is taking so long, shall I get a check for US $ sent instead? |
| 22:41:20 | BZFlag | which ever you like. another 25 shipped today. |
| 22:41:20 | AlHazWork | I could probably check his shit out of CVS, edit the python scripts in question, and then check them back in. but my python is sketchy at best. |
| 22:42:06 | AlHazWork | and my talents & experience are mostly around breaking code rather than fixing it . . . |
| 22:43:32 | as_ | Also, BZ, can you iron out something Russ said about not supporting 56K technology. The 56K code will be in the rom wired to the Lucent DSP wont it, so having patented code in the source shouldnt be a problem should it? |
| 22:46:15 | as_ | My Talents are in breaking hardware Alhaz ;] |
| 22:48:39 | BZFlag | as_: hmmm... don't recall what speed the DSP handles. |
| 22:49:31 | as_ | If you can get the chip number of the DSP, should be possible to look it up. |
| 22:50:36 | BZFlag | DSP data sheet is on the wiki |
| 22:50:40 | as_ | I know virtually nothing about getting them to do things, but the box I'm playing with currently uses a Lucent Codec/DSP/ROM/SRAM configuration. |
| 22:51:31 | as_ | That also doesnt tell you how the ROM program handles anything though. Tricky buisness. |
| 22:54:14 | as_ | bbl. |
| 22:55:59 | BZFlag | the manual (removed cause philips required it) does not mention DSP modem speed either. |
| 22:59:21 | BZFlag | v.34 = ? 36400? |
| 22:59:56 | Russ|werk | as_: the cpu has to do all the modulation |
| 23:00:34 | BZFlag | oh, 28.8 |
| 23:01:08 | BZFlag | so the internal is rumored to only handle 28.800 baud not 33.6 or 56k |
| 23:02:57 | as_ | Russ, theres no codec chip? |
| 23:05:24 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 23:05:37 | pattieja | is back (gone 00:00:06) |
| 23:05:53 | pattieja | is away: home |
| 23:06:30 | as_ | I find it very odd that if the modem is done on the cheep theyd have a DSP and no codec. |
| 23:09:16 | as_ | You make the main CPU do all the work, you lose the DSP, the ROM, and the SRAM. You lose the CODEC, and you still need a DAC/ADC of some sort, somethings missing. |
| 23:10:38 | BZFlag | I assume the DSP is doing the modulation. Russ: you ahve reason to believe that it can't be? |
| 23:11:54 | as_ | Actual modulation is done by the codec, the DSP does the coding/decoding of the actual data. How much work the codec does I dont know, it mayjust be a basic ADC/DAC. |
| 23:12:57 | as_ | My understanding of software modems, is they have a very basic ADC/DAC, which feads directly into the main CPU, and processed there. |
| 23:16:01 | as_ | brb. |
| 23:51:51 | GoRK | argh! |
| 23:52:42 | GoRK | i was gonna buy his jtag |
| 23:52:42 | GoRK | AlHaz : ware you at home yet? |
| 23:52:42 | GoRK | i can't get replies back from aleph1 |
| 23:58:37 | GoRK | BZFlag: I was going to ask you -- are you scraping off the name on the LCD as per an agreement you have? |
| 23:59:21 | GoRK | BZFlag: If you have to take it off, acetone will do the trick and leaves a much nicer finish. You pretty much can't tell there has been a logo there |