| 00:03:48 | Russ | oh boy, bluecat is supporting usb 2.0 |
| 00:03:55 | Russ | that just plain excites me |
| 00:35:50 | Sammy | hi all |
| 01:09:25 | Aelhaz | lienuxworks has the oddest strategy of all our competitors . . . |
| 01:12:39 | Aelhaz | whenever they're quoted in the press, they follow up whatever they say with "but if you were *really going to make an embedded system you should use lynxos instead of linux" |
| 01:12:57 | Aelhaz | and they do everything they can to piss off the linux community |
| 01:13:04 | Russ | what is lynxos |
| 01:14:52 | Aelhaz | once upon a time, lienuxworks went by another name, and marketed a binary-only embedded os called lynxos |
| 01:15:02 | Aelhaz | i forget what they used to call themselves |
| 01:15:40 | Aelhaz | they say they can scale the lynxos kernel all the way down to about 16k |
| 01:15:57 | Aelhaz | dunno what it *does at that size |
| 01:16:08 | Russ | ummm.... idle()? |
| 01:16:58 | Aelhaz | prolly |
| 01:17:31 | Russ | hell, blob is 16k |
| 01:17:41 | Aelhaz | tho, I hear RTXC (a Lineo offering, via aquisition) scales down to 4k, and still actually does useful things |
| 01:19:05 | Aelhaz | *shrug* |
| 01:21:44 | Aelhaz | Realistically, it's hard to get really small capacity memory chips these days. they just don't make 'em anymore. |
| 01:23:17 | Aelhaz | on the other hand, if you had, say, a high end DSP with a couple megs of memory on-chip, it'd do just fine |
| 01:42:13 | nelson | touchscreen. |
| 01:42:25 | nelson | How do I tell if mine is working? |
| 01:45:04 | Russ | get CosmicPenguin's microwindows image |
| 02:06:35 | nelson | Russ: isn't there a device I can cat or something? |
| 02:16:12 | Russ | umm...lemme see |
| 02:16:43 | Russ | mknod /dev/ts c 11 0 |
| 03:59:36 | | boodle was last seen on #familiar 10 hours, 38 minutes and 38 seconds ago, saying: <private message> [Tue Sep 4 18:20:58 2001] |
| 03:59:36 | BZFlag | ibot: seen boodle |
| 04:07:36 | BZFlag | is hacking boodle's phone... |
| 04:48:08 | BZFlag | great. needed jtag. added, flashing... |
| 05:02:21 | BZFlag | flashed. one phone back from the dead. I also fixed the tux cvs blob so it will no compile. hopefully everyone will know now to use the mainstream blob binaries. ;-/ |
| 06:07:31 | BZFlag | night all |
| 06:30:49 | Russ | tuxscreens came today= |
| 06:30:52 | Russ | now I get to fix the touchscreen |
| 06:34:10 | BZFlag | Russ: why? |
| 06:34:21 | BZFlag | Your's is non-funtional? |
| 06:34:47 | BZFlag | ( I guess that's as in it's not fun? s/funt/funct/ |
| 06:59:01 | BZFlag | Russ: you have a non-working ts tux now? |
| 06:59:32 | Russ | the serial numbers would indicate that |
| 07:00:03 | Russ | I don't have time to do anything with it tonight |
| 07:00:16 | BZFlag | #? |
| 07:00:31 | BZFlag | it's not on the wiki right? |
| 07:00:37 | BZFlag | http://TuxScreen.net/wiki/view//TouchScreen |
| 07:00:43 | Russ | 3501 |
| 07:01:45 | BZFlag | added. |
| 07:02:44 | Russ | its interesting watching the attack patterns on this network |
| 07:03:08 | Russ | people port scan, then come back a few days later form another machine and try to do an exploit |
| 07:03:44 | Russ | Sep 3 18:36:19 207.228.70.78:3719 -> 149.169.86.87:53 SYN ******S* |
| 07:03:44 | Russ | , etc, etc |
| 07:04:02 | Russ | [**] [1:257:1] DNS named version attempt [**] |
| 07:04:07 | Russ | 09/05-00:04:29.839169 65.42.213.131:1087 -> 149.169.86.109:53 |
| 07:04:25 | Russ | I only see packets from hosts that are turned off, since we are on a switch |
| 07:05:18 | BZFlag | there is a pattern though? other examples of a few day lag? |
| 07:09:15 | Russ | its usually someone searching the entire net for one vunerability |
| 07:09:22 | Russ | sunrpc, named, etc |
| 07:09:36 | Russ | again, I only see "lost" traffic |
| 07:10:09 | Russ | it would be cool if I could get a 100Mbit line up here and snort the whole dorm |
| 07:10:23 | BZFlag | heh |
| 07:10:42 | Russ | there is also local things going on |
| 07:10:44 | Russ | [**] [112:3:1] Ethernet destination/ARP target address mismatch [**] |
| 07:10:45 | Russ | 09/05-00:59:14.793210 |
| 07:10:53 | Russ | I need to get snort to tell me who that is |
| 07:13:18 | Russ | heh, I like the www.snort.org 404 |
| 07:13:23 | Russ | "These are not the pages you are looking for." |
| 07:13:47 | Russ | heh "Latest hosts that thought scanning an IDS site would go unnoticed" |
| 07:14:50 | BZFlag | where'd that one come from? |
| 07:15:20 | Russ | www.snort.org |
| 07:15:40 | Russ | "Latest sites that should have been running snort" |
| 07:49:07 | BZFlag | night again. |
| 14:08:35 | CosmicPenguin | Doh! We just hit slashdot! |
| 14:08:45 | CosmicPenguin | Everybody duck! |
| 14:10:21 | boris | anyone alive? |
| 14:20:06 | CosmicPenguin | I'm here boris..... whats going on? |
| 14:22:02 | blzbubba | well, Tim should sell out the remaining phones pretty quickly, eh. |
| 14:22:21 | blzbubba | mornin morn |
| 14:22:55 | Morn | good morning |
| 14:23:45 | CosmicPenguin | blzbubba: Or not, did ya read the comments. Bunch of idots..... :) |
| 14:23:54 | Aelhaz | Mornin |
| 14:24:11 | blzbubba | only the idiots post on slashdot. the rest of us just glance at the headlines |
| 14:24:25 | blzbubba | of course, I added a comment or two. hmm |
| 14:24:35 | CosmicPenguin | Were you the anonymous coward? |
| 14:24:48 | blzbubba | yeah, I post hundreds of messages a day |
| 14:25:04 | blzbubba | i was anonymous though, yeah |
| 14:25:44 | CosmicPenguin | Nothing like being famous, huh? Maybe we should all go down this weekend and help Tim ship phones... :) |
| 14:26:11 | blzbubba | i need to get my order in soon |
| 14:26:32 | CosmicPenguin | blzbubba: I thought you were bailing on the car idea? |
| 14:27:16 | blzbubba | i am, but I still like the phone |
| 14:27:44 | CosmicPenguin | btw, blzbubba: check http://www.dynapro.com |
| 14:28:47 | blzbubba | it takes me to a 404 page on 3m.com |
| 14:30:53 | blzbubba | 3m touch systems, or something like that? |
| 14:31:52 | CosmicPenguin | blzbubba: Thats what I'm using on this device on my desk. Good touchscreens.... |
| 14:32:20 | CosmicPenguin | blzbubba: Thats way OT, but since you were asking me yesterday, I thought I would pass it on... :) |
| 14:32:38 | blzbubba | i am interested, too bad the page isn't there. |
| 14:32:49 | kram | hey guys/girls |
| 14:32:58 | blzbubba | whats up |
| 14:32:59 | kram | does anybody on the channel actually have one of those? |
| 14:33:08 | blzbubba | yes |
| 14:33:22 | kram | okay, well, i have to admit i'm really curious about the tuxscreen |
| 14:33:31 | kram | i've written an open source PBX for Linux |
| 14:33:32 | kram | called Asterisk |
| 14:33:43 | blzbubba | nice |
| 14:33:53 | kram | and this just looks like it could be an amazing fit with the work i've been doing |
| 14:34:24 | blzbubba | how does the pbx communicate with the phones; via ethernet? |
| 14:34:34 | kram | while we support analog phones just fine, including all your normal call features like three way calling, caller*ID, call waiting, call transfer, etc... we don't have a good story on a stand alone feature phone |
| 14:34:44 | kram | not only could the tuxscreen provide that... |
| 14:34:57 | kram | with analog phones via T1/PRI interfaces |
| 14:34:59 | boris | will the tuxscreen work with compact flash cards? |
| 14:35:05 | kram | we also support a USB dongle |
| 14:35:17 | kram | and a very particular type of winmodem for bringing in calls |
| 14:35:30 | blzbubba | tuxscreen uses CF cards |
| 14:35:32 | CosmicPenguin | boris: It will work with any 3.3v card, including CF flash and microdrive |
| 14:35:45 | CosmicPenguin | kram: Got a URL for us? |
| 14:35:48 | boris | k |
| 14:36:20 | kram | sure |
| 14:36:26 | kram | http://www.asteriskpbx.com but it's a little bit outdated |
| 14:36:57 | kram | i'd really like to talk to someone involved with the project to see about these phones... |
| 14:37:31 | kram | we've developed a lot of technology in Asterisk that might be useful for using the phones, and at the same time they could be very complimentary to what we're doing |
| 14:37:53 | CosmicPenguin | kram: Thats very interesting. Do you mind if I add it to the wiki for others to peruse? |
| 14:37:58 | blzbubba | kram the big project now is figuring out how to control the DSP |
| 14:38:01 | kram | not at all |
| 14:38:12 | kram | blzbubba: you may not have to worry about using the DSP |
| 14:38:22 | kram | for example... |
| 14:38:47 | kram | we're able to provide DTMF detection, echo cancellation, and caller*ID generation and detection on 48 channels simultaneously without any trouble on a high end box |
| 14:38:53 | kram | all in software |
| 14:38:55 | kram | no DSP |
| 14:39:43 | kram | we likely could, even on that machine, at least echo cancel the single channel |
| 14:39:50 | kram | to provide speakerphone capability |
| 14:40:12 | kram | how long are these phones going to be available though? |
| 14:40:22 | Aelhaz | until tim runs out |
| 14:40:24 | boris | until they are all sold :) |
| 14:40:30 | kram | but then what? |
| 14:40:32 | joev | hasn't got his yet :^( |
| 14:40:37 | Aelhaz | 4000 were manufactured, our effort ended up with 1300 of them |
| 14:40:46 | blzbubba | they are out of production, probably for good |
| 14:40:47 | Aelhaz | tim had 1200 a few weeks ago, probably around 1100 now |
| 14:40:56 | CosmicPenguin | kram: Added the link to the wiki. I am fairly excited about the potential there.... |
| 14:41:04 | Aelhaz | they are the result of a failed joint venture between philips and lucent |
| 14:41:09 | CosmicPenguin | kram: Now we just need to figure out how to pick up the damn phone.... :) |
| 14:41:50 | Aelhaz | the DSP in the phone has it's own flash & ram, so it's probably just a matter of figuring out how to twiddle the right gpio pins |
| 14:41:54 | joev | cp: what part of the phone will let us do that? |
| 14:42:06 | kram | well the trouble is... |
| 14:42:13 | kram | if we go through the effort of writing the software |
| 14:42:14 | CosmicPenguin | joev: The DSP that is sitting in the device. Check the wiki for part numbers and data sheets.... |
| 14:42:20 | kram | what is the long term availability for people that want ot use it/ |
| 14:42:38 | boris | kram: the market is 4000 max :) |
| 14:42:45 | joev | cp: thx.. I wasn't aware the DSP took care of that... |
| 14:42:52 | CosmicPenguin | kram: This is simply a labor of love..... |
| 14:43:27 | kram | *nods* |
| 14:43:40 | kram | are schematics available? |
| 14:43:42 | Aelhaz | kram: This joint venture, over the course of three years, spent $33,000,000.00, and sold a couple hundred phones at $600/ea |
| 14:43:52 | joev | Hopefully, some of the work for tuxscreen will work on the LART... |
| 14:43:52 | Aelhaz | kram: so it was shut down for good, and the phones were sold as scrap |
| 14:44:17 | joev | I'll name my phones philips and lucent :^) |
| 14:44:19 | kram | can i purchase by credit card? |
| 14:44:25 | joev | kram: paypal to tim |
| 14:44:28 | kram | okay |
| 14:44:39 | boris | shit i just thought |
| 14:44:50 | boris | i change the addr for my cc bill to my new house |
| 14:44:53 | kram | tim is probably swamped |
| 14:44:59 | boris | when i am at my dads and it usually comes here |
| 14:45:35 | kram | i called and left him a voicemail anyway though hehe |
| 14:45:44 | kram | i think these things could definitely be cool though |
| 14:46:07 | kram | i wonder if I could get a couple shipped overnight tonight with linux installed on them |
| 14:46:19 | kram | do you guys pre-install linux or do we have to do it ourselves? |
| 14:46:34 | blzbubba | do it yourself |
| 14:46:49 | kram | we have to have a JTAG dongle? |
| 14:46:59 | blzbubba | only if you screw up the boot loader |
| 14:47:10 | kram | oh okay |
| 14:47:14 | kram | well cool |
| 14:47:18 | kram | how do we order these things? |
| 14:47:23 | kram | and get them overnight! |
| 14:47:24 | kram | lol |
| 14:47:27 | kram | only through tim? |
| 14:47:42 | joev | kram: yep. see http://www.tuxscreen.net/ |
| 14:48:09 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: If Tim needs help shipping, I can drive down this weekend.... |
| 14:48:36 | kram | hrm, i wonder how to indicate i want overnight shipping and how to calculate the cost |
| 14:49:15 | boris | kram: where are you located? |
| 14:49:29 | kram | huntsville, alabama |
| 14:49:33 | boris | oic |
| 14:49:53 | kram | *nods* |
| 14:51:29 | CosmicPenguin | I am excited to have somebody on board that knows the telephony side of things.... this may the be catalyst that we need.... |
| 14:52:22 | blzbubba | if this really takes off, we'll have to find a way to produce more units, affordably |
| 14:52:39 | kram | i've definitely got some good links into the telephony world |
| 14:52:45 | boris | well dont let it take off until i have my unit :) |
| 14:53:00 | kram | first thing is i need to get one of these phones right away :) |
| 14:53:27 | kram | or two mind as well |
| 14:53:27 | CosmicPenguin | blzbubba: TuxScreen, Inc. ???? |
| 14:54:10 | kram | the trouble is that these phones are seriously limited edition *sigh* |
| 14:54:14 | boris | CosmicPenguin: i started wiritng some app frameworks in ferite last night |
| 14:54:19 | kram | but still |
| 14:54:23 | kram | it's just too good to pass up |
| 14:54:39 | CosmicPenguin | boris: Cool.... |
| 14:54:39 | boris | CosmicPenguin: so that one i have ported evas, and imlib2 to microwindwos there should be a fully features contact amanger etc |
| 14:54:48 | boris | CosmicPenguin: and todo list etc |
| 14:54:58 | kram | i can't wait to get gnophone on there |
| 14:55:00 | boris | CosmicPenguin: i want to be able to select someone fro a list and do a search and call someone :) |
| 14:55:04 | kram | gnophone is our software phone |
| 14:55:12 | kram | we haven't even officially released it yet |
| 14:55:19 | kram | but if you guys want to beta it we can set you up with CVS |
| 14:55:25 | kram | so you can see what we're talking about |
| 14:55:31 | CosmicPenguin | boris: I have started work on a Widget set exclusively for the TuxScreen, so we can meet in the middle.... |
| 14:55:35 | kram | are you guys on aim at all? |
| 14:55:52 | CosmicPenguin | kram: If I can port gnophone to Microwindows, I would love to get a sneak peak.... :) |
| 14:55:54 | boris | CosmicPenguin: cool ,well if you setup the widget set framework i can tie it into imlib2 for rendering |
| 14:56:19 | CosmicPenguin | <-- only on IRC... |
| 14:56:35 | kram | what's microwindows? |
| 14:56:38 | kram | is there a link for it? |
| 14:57:57 | Aelhaz | blzbubba: I doubt they can be manufactured affordably. SA1100 processors are currently selling for $70 or so each in small quantities, and the screen & touchscreen together are worth about $150 as spare parts |
| 14:59:29 | joev | I hope to port J2ME (CDC: CVM + Foundation) to the tuxscreen.. Hopefully, that will opn up more software, too.. |
| 14:59:52 | CosmicPenguin | kram: The Microwindows wiki link is here: http://tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/Main/MicroWindows |
| 14:59:56 | joev | I may have to port AWT to Microwindows, though.. |
| 15:00:45 | CosmicPenguin | joev: Somewhere we have a Kafee port.... |
| 15:00:47 | Aelhaz | who submitted this to /.? |
| 15:01:15 | CosmicPenguin | Some guy named elmur, according to the article..... |
| 15:01:28 | Aelhaz | yeah |
| 15:01:30 | Aelhaz | whoever that is . . . |
| 15:01:52 | Aelhaz | At least the drooling masses don't seem to get the concept, so maybe tim won't be swamped with orders |
| 15:02:26 | boris | heh |
| 15:02:29 | boris | hmm |
| 15:07:35 | joev | cp: Yeah; but I need Java 1.3... Kaffe is barely 1.2... |
| 15:08:09 | CosmicPenguin | joev: I know...... Too much code, too little time.... |
| 15:10:39 | kram | is away - Not here right now, sorry... - Your msgs will be saved. |
| 15:37:13 | CosmicPenguin | The man the myth the legend.... :) |
| 15:38:50 | andersee | Wow. The tuxscreen just got slashdotted... |
| 15:39:45 | BZFlag | yep. |
| 15:42:17 | CosmicPenguin | We got a pretty good influx of new folks for a while there..... |
| 15:45:07 | BZFlag | reading through /. |
| 15:45:29 | andersee | BZFlag: perhaps you should post something useful... Most of the slashdot comments (per the usual) are irrelevant or misguided at best. Some fact re the project would help. |
| 15:45:56 | BZFlag | Aelhaz posted usefull comments. ;-) But I will as well. |
| 15:46:06 | CosmicPenguin | BZFlag: Did you see?? http://www.asteriskpbx.com/main/index.html |
| 15:47:01 | Aelhaz | BZFlag: It's interesting. Seeing something I'm involved with being thrown up on /. puts /. into perspective. |
| 15:47:11 | Aelhaz | buncha idiots, most of 'em. |
| 15:47:32 | Aelhaz | at least, posting comments. |
| 15:48:21 | rasty_ | greets, anyone have power consumption specs? |
| 15:48:23 | BZFlag | Aelhaz: heh, true true. |
| 15:48:29 | Aelhaz | airswitch never, ever, got positive remarks on /. |
| 15:49:00 | rasty_ | I'm building a wearable comp |
| 15:49:04 | Aelhaz | Anybody who posted knowledgibly - customers, employees, myself, was just ignored |
| 15:49:23 | Aelhaz | rasty_: Neat |
| 15:50:09 | rasty_ | Aelhaz: yeah, a few interface problems to work out, but was thinking about using a LART or equivalent |
| 15:52:26 | Aelhaz | rasty_: the tux phone could probably be easily powered off a few infolithiums and a custom power supply - the power brick just puts out 5v at 600mA and 3.3v at 1.25A |
| 15:53:31 | BZFlag | continues digging through mail... |
| 15:53:40 | rasty_ | yep, I have two infolithiums.. 76WH total |
| 15:55:15 | Aelhaz | the only problem i see is that it's not exactly compact |
| 15:55:26 | Aelhaz | the boards aren't particularly large but they're mounted off-set from eachother |
| 15:55:36 | rasty_ | ahhh |
| 15:55:49 | Aelhaz | the end of one plugs into the middle of the other |
| 15:56:32 | Aelhaz | might be possible to replace the direct connection with a ribbon cable, but i don't know anything about the signals going through it |
| 15:56:39 | rasty_ | would make a cool bathroom terminal |
| 16:00:32 | Aelhaz | there's a thought |
| 16:00:45 | andersee | Heck, at $99 you could gut it for parts... The touchscreen alone is worth about $150... |
| 16:02:23 | BZFlag | busy in here? ;-) |
| 16:02:45 | Namtilaku | so what do i have to do to get my hands on one of these? |
| 16:02:50 | BZFlag | so /. in the kithen and bathroon? ;-) |
| 16:03:12 | andersee | Namtilaku: pay $99 + shipping to BZFlag |
| 16:03:15 | Aelhaz | Every now and then i try to dream up a flush-mounted, sterilizable network connector |
| 16:03:50 | Namtilaku | groovy |
| 16:03:52 | Aelhaz | BZFlag: I liked the comment that said this was a cheap ploy to try and sell more hardware |
| 16:04:20 | BZFlag | heh! have to read that one! I like the mother-son conversation best so far. |
| 16:05:39 | badd00d | still reading through the wiki |
| 16:07:08 | BZFlag | the channel count grows.... ;-) |
| 16:07:28 | travis|work | as long as i am in here, that is all that counts :P |
| 16:08:57 | travis|work | Hey Tim, i can smoke again!!! its been a week since the wisdom teeth thing |
| 16:10:30 | badd00d | had my wizdoms out a few months back... not as painful as they said it would be, but very inconvenient ;) |
| 16:10:37 | cworth | so is everyone here sold on uclib and/or microwindows? Personally, I'm not convinced uclibc is worth it --- and I know I want X. |
| 16:10:44 | CosmicPenguin | 27 folks is an official record, even with the multiple personalities of Aelhaz.... :) |
| 16:11:02 | badd00d | cworth: i'm loving the full X server on my agenda |
| 16:11:29 | CosmicPenguin | cworth: Actually, I'm the only one sold on Microwindows.... X on the tuxscreen is a great idea, if for no other reason than because you can see a remote server..... |
| 16:12:21 | badd00d | is the lucent dsp the same chipset (or family) as the lucent winmodem? |
| 16:12:24 | cworth | CosmicPenguin: yes, since it has to be plugged in, I'm planning on running a lot of remote X apps. displayed to the TuxScreen. |
| 16:12:45 | Aelhaz | heh |
| 16:13:13 | andersee | cworth: well, some of us here are biased towards uClibc (uClibc maintainer hat on ;-). |
| 16:13:17 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: Someone suggested PicoGUI, whatever that is. The name reminds me of qnx . . . . |
| 16:13:34 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: it'd be neat to have a graphical environment that fits in the 4 megs of flash |
| 16:13:36 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: I saw that. He said it was smaller. I wonder how much smaller..... |
| 16:13:39 | badd00d | a softmodem would be killer for remote installations |
| 16:14:05 | andersee | cworth: Seriously though. The amount of flash on these things is pretty small. uClibc give you enough space to boot and pivot root into a Compact Flash card, and then you can put whatever you want on there... |
| 16:14:16 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: You know that the entire current microwindows image comes in at about 2.2MB, right? |
| 16:14:46 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: Yeah |
| 16:14:53 | travis|work | started bleeding from the mouth again.... |
| 16:14:55 | badd00d | just enough flash to bootstrap a microdrive would be fine by me |
| 16:15:05 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: picogui.org says that stripped binaries come in at about 100k, but I'm not sure what libraries they depend on having |
| 16:15:26 | joev | There's always vnc.. |
| 16:15:32 | Aelhaz | badd00d: there's 4 megs on it, easily enough |
| 16:15:41 | CosmicPenguin | AlHaz: That beats me by 140K, but I don't need anything but uclibc..... |
| 16:15:49 | badd00d | tightvnc would be sweet |
| 16:15:51 | CosmicPenguin | AlHaz: Sorry, that beats me by 40K..... |
| 16:16:34 | CosmicPenguin | Is there a lot of interest for a VNC client???? |
| 16:16:38 | blzbubba | the compressed Xfbdev only takes about 500k on the filesystem |
| 16:16:47 | badd00d | ucb1200 audio codec.. no oss/alsa drivers for that, I'll wager ;) |
| 16:16:50 | joev | cp: I though microwindows came with the vnc client as a demo... |
| 16:16:55 | blzbubba | just set it up to XDMCP connect to a server |
| 16:16:55 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: looks like it relies on either SDL (not exactly small) or SVGALib (not exactly cross-platform) |
| 16:17:03 | travis|work | vnc is awesome i think |
| 16:17:09 | CosmicPenguin | joev: It does... I was just wondering if I should compile it up? |
| 16:17:19 | Aelhaz | travis|work: VNC is Better than Nothing. |
| 16:17:20 | blzbubba | badd00d there are ucb1200 audio drivers availble |
| 16:17:21 | badd00d | use tridia/tightvnc daily here. love it. |
| 16:17:31 | cworth | andersee: extra pain for bootstrapping makes sense. But I saw people talking about lots of effort to get complex user programs, (X, C++ stuff), working with uclibc, and it makes me wonder if it's worth it. |
| 16:17:31 | joev | cp: I wonder how big it is (ie, above and beyond your 2.2MB) |
| 16:17:31 | badd00d | excellent! |
| 16:17:32 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: Ahh, SVGAlib... there's the secret.... :) |
| 16:17:32 | Aelhaz | travis|work: but as remote console apps go, it's kinda cheezy |
| 16:17:53 | travis|work | Aelhaz: better than telnet :P |
| 16:17:54 | CosmicPenguin | joev: Lemme compile it up..... |
| 16:17:59 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: I don't even know how big that is |
| 16:18:06 | Aelhaz | travis|work: But not better than xwindows via ssh |
| 16:18:10 | badd00d | i'm more interested in openh323 running on it with my PhoneCard |
| 16:18:41 | badd00d | true voip, in something that looks like a phone. yay! :) |
| 16:18:45 | Aelhaz | When you don't have anything better, VNC beats the living daylights out of nothing. |
| 16:18:52 | Aelhaz | but I've used much better |
| 16:19:05 | joev | cp: If I can get Java up and running, I'm going to have to write Java wrappers to Microwindows, and then AWT/Swing (whoich will likely have to be loaded from CF or NFS..) |
| 16:19:05 | Aelhaz | (just that most of the apps that are better aren't free) |
| 16:19:08 | travis|work | does voip work yet? |
| 16:19:09 | badd00d | Aelhaz: have you tried tridia or tight? |
| 16:19:15 | Aelhaz | badd00d: Nope |
| 16:19:18 | BZFlag | travis|work: not yet, no. |
| 16:19:18 | travis|work | i mean on the tuxscreen |
| 16:19:22 | travis|work | k |
| 16:19:31 | badd00d | Aelhaz: try 'em. they'll change your mind. |
| 16:19:39 | andersee | cworth: There is a bit of extra effort needed for C++ (I am working on that). But as far as I know there is no problem whatsoever with running X using uClibc. Bugreports gladly accepted of course. I'm usually pretty quick about fixing bugs... |
| 16:19:45 | BZFlag | Just talked to "greg" that wrote the existing linux telephony article. they are interested in the Tux too. ;-) |
| 16:19:47 | Aelhaz | badd00d: What are they? |
| 16:19:58 | travis|work | BZFlag: thinking about having a standard downloadable installation? (unless i missed reading there is one) |
| 16:20:16 | Aelhaz | 99.95% of what i do in the way of remote administration can be easily done in ssh without any gui at all |
| 16:20:31 | badd00d | Aelhaz: www.tightvnc.org, www.tridiavnc.com |
| 16:20:32 | Aelhaz | if i absolutly *must have a gui, that probably means I'm trying to remote admin a windows box, in which case I'd rather be dead |
| 16:20:37 | joev | travis: I think familiar will be the distribution (http://familiar.handhelds.org/) |
| 16:20:52 | travis|work | thanks joe |
| 16:21:08 | cworth | andersee: OK. thanks. I'm probably out of line wrt uclibc as I haven't tried compiling much yet... |
| 16:21:26 | badd00d | ok, lunchtime.. brb |
| 16:21:30 | CosmicPenguin | travis|work: Just for completeness, there is also a Microwindows image available on http://tuxscreen.net/download/microwin |
| 16:21:50 | cworth | andersee: I guess I'm just afraid of running into missing functions. Any list anywhere of what's there and what's not? |
| 16:21:56 | andersee | cworth: Compiling stuff with uClibc is _way_ wasy. I use glibc header files to make switching almost completely transparent... |
| 16:22:03 | Aelhaz | You have to understand VNC's roots to understand why it isn't very good at what it does. |
| 16:22:10 | travis|work | thanks cosmic |
| 16:22:28 | Aelhaz | VNC was designed for use with a display terminal that has an ATM (gigabit fiber) connection directly to the real thing |
| 16:22:45 | andersee | cworth: Right now, missing stuff is threads, wide char, full Posix locale support... |
| 16:22:55 | Aelhaz | So they started the design with "Assuming we have infinitely high bandwidth and infinitely low latency . . . " |
| 16:23:01 | BZFlag | wants that "_way_ wasy" code. |
| 16:23:14 | andersee | cworth: Other then that, everything that works with glibc should just work with uClibc... |
| 16:23:26 | kram | has returned. |
| 16:24:11 | CosmicPenguin | joev: RIght now, the standard VNC viewer that ships with microwindows builds to 52k (under uclibc). I don't know how well that works, though.... |
| 16:24:13 | andersee | BZFlag: I'll finish off the changes to mkfs.jffs2 today, then you will have it. :-) |
| 16:24:21 | Aelhaz | The average user just doesn't have high bandwidth or low latency |
| 16:24:43 | Aelhaz | if I'm working with limited bandwidth and unpredictable latency - that is, administering a remote box over the internet - I'd much rather eschew the gui completely |
| 16:24:45 | andersee | BZFlag: I checked in my jffs2reader updates yesterday (I'm now an mtd comitter). |
| 16:25:15 | cworth | andersee: OK. I guess what I really need to do is whip something together so that I re-compile all of Familiar from Debian source packages. |
| 16:25:17 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: What mkfs.jffs2 changes did you make? |
| 16:25:55 | nikos | I just had to come by and see if the channel was mobbed. |
| 16:25:58 | Aelhaz | something like Berlin would make an excellent remote gui |
| 16:26:09 | Aelhaz | but it's not going to be able to show you windows apps, etc |
| 16:26:29 | BZFlag | 24 paypal orders so far |
| 16:26:38 | andersee | I'm hacking the jffs2 tools so the entire thing can be done without needing to be root. I use a table to generate device nodes (avoiding mknod calls) and to fixup permissions (no root needed to make setuid root apps in the target image) |
| 16:26:39 | nikos | BZFlag: Are you ready for it? |
| 16:27:02 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: Also, I'm adding hard link support. :) |
| 16:27:08 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: kewl! |
| 16:27:12 | kram | bzflag: i'm ready to order too, i just need to know how much to pay because i want two units overnight! |
| 16:27:22 | travis|work | BZFlag: when can i run BZFlag on my tuxscreen? :P |
| 16:27:48 | nikos | BZFlag: I feel for you. Good luck. |
| 16:27:49 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: I've discussed the plan with David Woodhouse and we've come to an agreement on how to do it, so now I just need to fix things up. |
| 16:28:11 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: "A simple matter of programming" ;) |
| 16:28:26 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: Isn't it always? |
| 16:28:52 | travis|work | oh no, look at microsoft |
| 16:29:24 | travis|work | lets put a few million useless lines of code in this baby!!! |
| 16:29:43 | CosmicPenguin | travis|work: Thats what happens when you get paid by the line.... |
| 16:29:51 | travis|work | lol |
| 16:32:19 | CosmicPenguin | Gnophone looks good (http://gnophone.com) |
| 16:32:32 | travis|work | God, VoIP would be sweet! |
| 16:32:34 | cworth | andersee have you looked at Debian's fakeroot? It's a pretty reasonable method of making root-enabled images. |
| 16:33:22 | GoRK | ooh yeah fakeroot is awesome. i use it to package up non-debian junk i have to install |
| 16:33:34 | dath | So are there any TuxScreens left? |
| 16:33:51 | travis|smoke_break | brb |
| 16:34:08 | BZFlag | andersee: heh, cworth's comments sound familiar? ;-) (pun intended) |
| 16:34:47 | Aelhaz | dath: look at the topic |
| 16:34:50 | Aelhaz | points at the topic |
| 16:34:59 | dath | Just wanted to make sure that was up to date:-> |
| 16:35:03 | BZFlag | andersee: can you spread the work that I won't be in today? /. and all. |
| 16:35:11 | BZFlag | er the word... ouch. |
| 16:35:17 | Aelhaz | --- Topic for #tuxscreen set by BZFlag at Wed Sep 5 11:05:10 |
| 16:35:20 | CosmicPenguin | BZFlag needs to add a CGI script to the webpage to give us a running total.... :) |
| 16:35:29 | andersee | cworth: sure. I use fakeroot all the time. I think this is a better long term solution, and is a solution I am applying to several of the mkfs programs... |
| 16:35:33 | dath | Yeah yeah, I'm a moron, sorry:-> |
| 16:37:01 | Aelhaz | I hope this doesn't result in a lot of phones ending up completely fried . . . |
| 16:37:06 | cworth | andersee: interesting. I'm curious, what will the interface be for setting setuid-root, or creating device nodes then? |
| 16:37:41 | CosmicPenguin | AlHaz: If nothing else, we will be able to get more data points for the touchscreen problem.... |
| 16:37:53 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: Hopefully |
| 16:38:10 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: We may want to start working on a method to flash the thing w/o having to install inferno |
| 16:38:41 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: Didn't shaggy suggest something along those lines? |
| 16:39:03 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: Well, we could easily sniff what inferno is doing with the serial port |
| 16:39:12 | andersee | cworth: a table that enumerates the file type, permissions, uid, guid, etc. |
| 16:39:36 | andersee | cworth: I can send you a sample if you are really interested... |
| 16:40:05 | andersee | cworth: In fact, I can send you my first draft, which went into genext2fs, a user space ext2 fs creator. |
| 16:40:24 | cworth | andersee: a text file that is input to mkfs then? yes I'd be interested in seeing this. |
| 16:42:38 | dath | So to order, do I just calculate shipping and transfer the money with paypal putting my address in the comments? |
| 16:44:11 | CosmicPenguin | Ohh, I like TimGray's idea of the doorbell cam.... Is he here? |
| 16:45:05 | kram | i have the coolest webcam :) |
| 16:45:14 | BZFlag | The wiki seems to be holding up ok. thanx SF! ;-) |
| 16:45:19 | GoRK | is away: (automatically dead ) [BX-MsgLog Off] |
| 16:45:19 | GoRK | is idle, automatically dead [bX(l/on p/on)] |
| 16:45:22 | kram | http://www.markocam.com |
| 16:45:30 | kram | it was free for me too |
| 16:45:35 | kram | customer development jobbie |
| 16:46:10 | edwardam | I see the tuxscreen made slashdot. congrat's BZFlag. :-) |
| 16:46:19 | sean | bzflag, so what i just email you my addy & paypal you $114 and its all good? |
| 16:46:22 | BZFlag | edwardam: thanx! |
| 16:46:26 | BZFlag | sean: yep. |
| 16:46:34 | CosmicPenguin | kram: Hi mark.... hard at work... :) what kind of camera is it? |
| 16:46:44 | kram | it's a canon vc-c3 |
| 16:46:47 | BZFlag | and $25 for FlashUnlock if you like. |
| 16:47:12 | edwardam | BZFlag: the real question is: How many did you sell from the PR? (I am going to order two at some point) |
| 16:47:22 | sean | i expect i can handle that myself, but i'll read more first. shipping constant for multiple units? |
| 16:47:53 | kram | bzflag: i'm ready with paypal :) |
| 21:25:34 | blzbubba | i don't know if it will support xdmcp though; I had to rebuild X to get that |
| 21:25:43 | blzbubba | may or may not be important to you... |
| 21:27:04 | BZFlag | the binary I used does not support xdmcp |
| 21:27:19 | Russ | be nice if the stock X server supported the ucb ts |
| 21:28:12 | jacques | x is really easy to xcompile |
| 21:30:37 | jacques | ?? |
| 21:31:15 | blzbubba | x is easy to cross compile if you don't want to change the options |
| 21:31:25 | clarkcd | where did the "tuxscreen" phones come from? |
| 21:31:41 | blzbubba | a failed joint venture between Philips and Lucent |
| 21:31:54 | blzbubba | they built a batch of like 4000 and then canned the project |
| 21:31:55 | clarkcd | :) I mean recently |
| 21:32:11 | clarkcd | I worked on it |
| 21:32:14 | jacques | blzbubba: tell me what you want and I'll try to build you a binary |
| 21:32:22 | BZFlag | see the history page. I got them from the "guy in NY" |
| 21:32:30 | Russ | who is the guy in NY |
| 21:32:31 | blzbubba | jacques font server support |
| 21:32:47 | blzbubba | i figured out xdmcp but I can't get it to use a font server |
| 21:32:51 | BZFlag | Habitat Communications. My contact is Roger Gins. |
| 21:32:56 | clarkcd | OK. I knew it as "project shannon" and then as the IS2630 |
| 21:33:01 | Russ | and what did he do wit hthem |
| 21:33:02 | Russ | er |
| 21:33:04 | Russ | with them |
| 21:33:07 | BZFlag | clarkcd: the same. |
| 21:33:28 | clarkcd | I tried to interest them in running linux then, but no go. |
| 21:33:42 | BZFlag | Russ: habitat tried updating the sw and reselling them. afaik they never got far with new sw. |
| 21:33:49 | blzbubba | jacques not a big deal on that font server; it wasn't important enough for me to suffer with it. |
| 21:33:56 | blzbubba | i had room for the basic 75dpi fonts |
| 21:33:59 | BZFlag | clarkcd: shaggy knows that we have Linux on em now. |
| 21:34:38 | clarkcd | :) no less then dennis ritchie advised against using inferno in an embedded application. |
| 21:34:50 | Russ | BZFlag: has shaggy put linux on his? |
| 21:35:23 | BZFlag | Russ: not that I know of yet. He's swamped over at savaje at present. |
| 21:37:56 | jacques | blzbubba: what did you try? is te problem that the tinyX server does not support the font server? |
| 21:39:01 | blzbubba | jacques I didn't try too much; just setting a font server with the -fp command line option. |
| 21:39:40 | jacques | blzbubba: ok, I'll give it a try in a bit |
| 21:40:12 | Russ | BZFlag: I think I'll just do x2x for now |
| 21:40:22 | blzbubba | I added this to host.def: #define FontServerAccess YES |
| 21:40:28 | blzbubba | not sure if that helped or not |
| 21:41:43 | BZFlag | blzbubba: might need some other networking switch someplace. I'm not sure though. |
| 21:42:31 | blzbubba | xdmcp works perfectly, so there is at least _some_ networking |
| 21:42:52 | BZFlag | blzbubba: sweet. |
| 21:43:31 | blzbubba | yeah, it will make a nifty X terminal for the living room |
| 21:43:43 | blzbubba | and it will be fun when the phone works too |
| 21:43:48 | boris | hmm |
| 21:44:43 | andersee | The phone does works... But it works btter under inferno ATM... |
| 22:01:37 | kram | is away - Not here right now, sorry... - Your msgs will be saved. |
| 22:01:42 | Russ | class |
| 22:19:48 | edwardam | is away: upgrading phone system |
| 22:42:49 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: I think I've got that whole homer file parsed.. I should have some kernel modules soon... i can't decide if I should hack that or the Tuxscreen tonight... |
| 22:48:44 | andersee | Cool. |
| 22:49:37 | andersee | I'll have my jffs2 updates probably tonight. Then the buildsystem can go into CVS, and that will make adding stuff to the tucscreen pretty easy from then on... |
| 22:52:55 | andersee | CosmicPenguin: Sometime I'll have to drop by and watch your homer go. Motions are keyed off certain frequencies? |
| 23:01:07 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: Nope. Its a RIFF file, so there is a whole block of data in the file that give a series of motion values and a duration. |
| 23:02:05 | CosmicPenguin | For each duration, you calculate how many bytes of sound that duration takes, and fire it off. I assume that it caches them "on homer" and plays it there... |
| 23:03:07 | CosmicPenguin | andersee: Looking forward to a build system. |
| 23:16:44 | DarkTech | ah, a good RTFM type topic.. |
| 23:21:30 | edwardam | is back (gone 01:01:41) |
| 23:22:13 | CosmicPenguin | DarkTech: ??? |
| 23:22:24 | DarkTech | I was going to ask how many units are left.. |
| 23:22:50 | DarkTech | because I was probably going to buy a couple |
| 23:30:11 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, thats probaby a good RTFM.. I'm sure that BZFlag is tired of answering that one.... |
| 23:58:46 | LauraDY | Hi, I am a webmaster and admin, I am a part of a project of a new news portal about techonologies and computing, the site is banner/pub/popup free, all clean, we just need people willing to submit some linux news and that stuff, anyone willing to help? |
| 23:59:38 | | okay, LauraDY. |
| 23:59:38 | LauraDY | We are also working together with LDP (linux documentation project) so we are going to post LDP howto's and FAQ's in our site before they are used in LDP, so people can comment them and then LDP can make better and more complete howto's. |