| 00:12:33 | Sammy | Morning everyone |
| 02:34:24 | BZFlag | mallum needs to hit ESC then ctrl-a, not ctrl-p |
| 02:37:39 | | BZFlag: i'm not following you... |
| 02:37:39 | BZFlag | ibot send mallum you need to hit ESC then ctrl-a, not ctrl-p. Try that with your current cable. |
| 02:38:15 | BZFlag | ibot message for mallum: you need to hit ESC then ctrl-a, not ctrl-p. Try that with your current cable. |
| 07:30:51 | Russ | BZFlag? |
| 08:08:09 | BZFlag | here. |
| 09:08:24 | | BZFlag: excuse me? |
| 09:08:24 | BZFlag | ibot stable |
| 09:08:29 | | BZFlag: excuse me? |
| 09:08:29 | BZFlag | ibot stablefeed |
| 09:08:38 | BZFlag | ibot search for stable |
| 09:57:21 | dec_ | heh |
| 14:33:22 | mallum | cworth: have you installed linux on your tuxscreen as yet ? |
| 14:33:40 | cworth | mallum: not yet. hoping to soon. |
| 14:35:33 | mallum | cworth: cool, I wonder if you 64mb ram will work ..... |
| 14:36:11 | mallum | cworth: I have 2 now, am battling to install ... few minor problems at the mo |
| 14:39:21 | Aelhaz | mallum: bzflag mentioned last night that you are pressing esc ctrl-p where you should do esc ctrol-a |
| 14:42:30 | mallum | Aelhaz: thanks I got a botmail from him |
| 15:14:25 | nikos | is away: Errand |
| 16:39:23 | Russ|werk | andersee: did you see udhcp 0.9.2? |
| 16:39:54 | andersee | Over the weekend I noticed the freshmeat posting |
| 16:40:37 | andersee | I havn't had a chance to try it yet... |
| 16:40:44 | Russ|werk | raw client sockets work now, so ./udhcpc -d samples/ -p .sample -i eth0 should work |
| 16:41:01 | andersee | Ahh. Nice. |
| 16:41:10 | andersee | Lemme go update and try again... |
| 16:43:28 | Russ|werk | btw, it would be handy if I could get a directory listing for source files, either http, or ftp |
| 16:43:47 | Russ|werk | ie, http://opensource.lineo.com/udhcpd/source/ |
| 16:43:48 | andersee | hmm. Still no joy. |
| 16:44:03 | Russ|werk | ? |
| 16:45:16 | andersee | A directory listing? |
| 16:45:41 | andersee | I.e. apache Index directive on source subdir? |
| 16:45:42 | Russ|werk | yah, so all old source tarballs are listed |
| 16:45:51 | andersee | k. 2 secs... |
| 16:45:52 | Russ|werk | andersee: define DEBUG in the Makefile |
| 16:48:25 | Russ|werk | thanks |
| 16:49:26 | andersee | looks like http://opensource.lineo.com/udhcpd/source/ is now working as expected... |
| 16:50:00 | Russ|werk | yup |
| 16:52:22 | Russ|werk | so what is the client doing on your network? |
| 16:54:28 | andersee | k. Got it to work.. :) |
| 16:54:49 | andersee | -p sample. not -p .sample |
| 16:54:59 | Russ|werk | oops, sorry |
| 16:55:34 | Russ|werk | getting ahead of my self all set to change that to a suffix |
| 16:55:44 | andersee | no biggie. Again a usability issue needing to be addressed some time... |
| 16:55:57 | andersee | But it does in fact now actually work! |
| 16:56:01 | andersee | nice |
| 16:56:36 | Russ|werk | I think it should also have the option of not forking to the background until it times out, or grabs an IP |
| 16:56:58 | Russ|werk | if it timed out with that behavior set, it would die |
| 16:57:37 | andersee | indeed. Also, I think some compiled in (but configurable out) default behavior in the absence of scripts would be nice too... |
| 16:58:18 | Russ|werk | hmm... |
| 16:58:35 | Russ|werk | wouldn't be hard to do |
| 16:58:36 | andersee | i.e. if the bound script isn't found, it could just exec ifconfig and route internally |
| 16:59:06 | andersee | or use ip... |
| 17:00:11 | Russ|werk | ? |
| 17:00:51 | andersee | if (stat(boundscript, &statbuf)<=) { |
| 17:01:15 | andersee | sprintf(buf, <ifconfig args>, ...); |
| 17:01:17 | Russ|werk | right |
| 17:01:34 | Russ|werk | but what do you mean by "or use ip" |
| 17:01:36 | andersee | exec(argv[0], argv) |
| 17:02:25 | andersee | the iproute2 package contains a tool called "ip", which can be used to replace ifconfig, route, set up all sorts of funky networking behvaior... |
| 17:02:40 | Russ|werk | oh, right |
| 17:02:46 | andersee | I've used it on some systems instead of ifconfig/route... |
| 17:03:35 | andersee | Course, busybox ifconfig/route are much smaller, but can't do all the funcky things ip can, like equal-route-multi-path and such |
| 17:03:56 | Russ|werk | depends on what you need |
| 17:04:19 | andersee | right... |
| 17:04:31 | Russ|werk | is libpthreads straightforward to compile for uclibc? |
| 17:05:18 | andersee | But i guess, for the default conpiled in (and configurable out) case, it should use ifconfig/route. Folks wanting to use "ip" can install the scripts I imagine. |
| 17:06:03 | andersee | Unfortunately, the onlyu threading support in uClibc right now is a port of FSMthreads... (user mode threads, not clone based). |
| 17:06:21 | andersee | Hasn't hit the top of the priority list.... |
| 17:06:23 | Russ|werk | all the dns proxies I know use pthreads |
| 17:07:17 | andersee | A bit back, a guy claimed he was working on a pthread port on the mailing list, but I havn't heard of any progress... |
| 17:08:03 | andersee | I've been focusing on some of the other areas... It _will_ eventually bubble up to the top of my list. But my list is pretty long, as you might imagine. |
| 17:08:12 | Russ|werk | maybe I'll have to write a decent embedded DNS forwarding/proxy daemon |
| 17:09:34 | andersee | Either that, or finish the port. I've tried to make sure everything that is supposed to be reentrant is, but havn't not actually tested it, I'm not sure how much work the pthreads port will be... |
| 17:10:09 | Russ|werk | I understand ip protocols, I don't understand libraries and threads very well |
| 17:11:29 | andersee | I understand that stuff. I just have a long TODO list... |
| 17:11:44 | andersee | probably needs to take off and start working on the TODO list... |
| 17:12:00 | Russ|werk | maybe I'll look at the dnrd source and see how tied to pthreads it is |
| 17:12:25 | Russ|werk | I'm all for non-blocking select loops myself |
| 17:13:38 | andersee | More efficient that way IMHO... Almost all use of threads indicated a problem between the keyboard and the chair. Not all, just most. |
| 17:15:27 | andersee | well, I need to take off. Lots of work to get done today. |
| 17:15:31 | andersee | Catch you later. |
| 17:25:47 | kR | hello |
| 17:28:12 | Russ|werk | hello |
| 17:28:29 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: what were you saying about schematics? |
| 17:37:38 | BZFlag | got some! not terribly revealing, but helpful. |
| 17:37:43 | BZFlag | I'll scan em in today. |
| 17:38:02 | | mallum was last seen on #handhelds.org 2 hours, 54 minutes and 58 seconds ago, saying: cworth: Also I wonder if the transparent area's allow events to be caught - the shape extension doesn't [Mon Aug 13 15:43:04 2001] |
| 17:38:02 | BZFlag | ibot: seen mallum |
| 17:38:17 | BZFlag | did mallum get InfernoRemote working? |
| 17:39:37 | Russ|werk | speak of the devil |
| 17:39:44 | mallum | get a connection ! |
| 17:39:48 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: what are the schematics of? |
| 17:39:53 | BZFlag | mallum: you did ctrl-a now? |
| 17:39:56 | mallum | s/get/gets/ |
| 17:40:00 | Russ|werk | that answers that |
| 17:40:06 | mallum | BZFlag: yes, and I got a new cable too |
| 17:40:13 | mallum | BZFlag: just in case... |
| 17:40:40 | mallum | BZFlag: will attempt install, when gf gets in ( figure I need another set of hands... ) |
| 17:41:24 | mallum | HAve 12v battery pack at the ready too |
| 17:41:47 | BZFlag | Russ: various. shannon "block diagram" that looks incomplete, mainboard layout |
| 17:41:54 | cworth | downloads inferno bits |
| 17:42:14 | BZFlag | and the nice ones: 2 proper schematics and a BOM for the Mongoose board. |
| 17:42:44 | BZFlag | oh, and bunch of SODIMM docs that we already have. |
| 17:42:54 | mallum | Also there seems to be no MD5 checksums for the 0.3 download dir |
| 17:43:26 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: it will be a good start, I can probably make complete schematics with a bit of probing |
| 17:47:10 | BZFlag | well, to work I go |
| 17:51:06 | mallum | Russ|werk: do you have checksums for the 0.3 download directory ? |
| 17:51:17 | Russ|werk | nope, thats all tim |
| 17:51:24 | Russ|werk | I have the original sources |
| 17:51:35 | Russ|werk | he builds zImage's |
| 18:03:59 | cworth | me connect with InfernoRemote! |
| 18:04:05 | mallum | is there a md5 for the blob ? |
| 18:06:33 | mallum | cworth: does 'c F!all D!inferno.backup' work for you ? |
| 18:11:23 | cworth | mallum: trying that now... |
| 18:11:49 | mallum | cworth: I get ; |
| 18:11:55 | mallum | >>> c F!all D!inferno.backup |
| 18:11:56 | mallum | flash: id=1/49 (AMD Am29LV160BB), ss=20000 fs=400000 w=2 b=0-20000 f=5 |
| 18:11:56 | mallum | ?cannot create inferno.backup |
| 18:13:27 | cworth | mallum: mine created inferno.backup (0 bytes so far), in my inferno root directory, (/usr/local/inferno here). Do you have write permission to the directory? |
| 18:14:06 | mallum | cworth: I su'd to root before running the emu - will try again as normal user |
| 18:14:27 | cworth | mallum: hmmm... I'm root too. Did the error message happen right away? |
| 18:14:38 | mallum | yes |
| 18:14:54 | cworth | mallum: right.. and I know my file got created, because I can see it. |
| 18:15:04 | cworth | mallum: have you done the 12V zap yet? |
| 18:15:23 | mallum | cworth: no not yet - having dinner first ... |
| 18:17:50 | mallum | cworth: what speed are you connected at ? |
| 18:17:57 | cworth | mallum: 115200 |
| 18:18:08 | cworth | mallum: hmm.. just finished. let me look at the file. |
| 18:18:25 | cworth | mallum: 4194304. That sounds good! |
| 18:20:39 | mallum | cworth: seems tobe working now - as normal user ??? |
| 18:21:01 | Russ|werk | hey CosmicPenguin |
| 18:21:15 | CosmicPenguin | Hello.... |
| 18:21:27 | thekernel | CosmicPenguin: How's the unlock doing? |
| 18:21:32 | Russ|werk | which part of microwindows are you looking at getting running? |
| 18:21:48 | CosmicPenguin | Thekernel: I'm backing up the inferno right now, and then you gotta come over here and help me |
| 18:22:06 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: I'm going to put the server on (of course), and I am working on a window manager right now... |
| 18:22:13 | thekernel | ok, just yell |
| 18:22:36 | CosmicPenguin | My first goal will be to get ViewML up and running so we have a real browser |
| 18:22:45 | Russ|werk | does microwindows support X clients? |
| 18:23:21 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Sorry.... |
| 18:23:28 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: is it written in C? |
| 18:26:34 | cworth | hmmm... trying to unprotect now. I tried once without 12V just to watch it and got: |
| 18:26:37 | cworth | >>> P/u 0 flash: id=1/49 (AMD Am29LV160BB), ss=20000 fs=400000 w=2 b=0-20000 f=5 waiting for 12V (10 sec) ?<undefined error> |
| 18:26:53 | cworth | But, then on my second try, (when I was goin to apply 12V), I got: |
| 18:27:08 | cworth | >>> P/u 0 <0?><terminal mode> |
| 18:27:22 | cworth | and it's just sitting there without a prompt.... :( |
| 18:27:38 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Yep, completely in C - It was actually designed to be very close to X, but because it was intended for unattached embedded devices, the decision was made to use a different API |
| 18:28:04 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: should I try compiling it under uclibc for you? |
| 18:28:12 | Russ|werk | cworth: mabye it worked |
| 18:28:51 | Russ|werk | cworth: I used jtag, so I really don't know |
| 18:29:11 | mallum | cworth: you have a md5 sum for the blob ? |
| 18:29:59 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: I already have it compiled under uclibc |
| 18:30:25 | CosmicPenguin | The biggest problem is that the bowser is C++ based... :) |
| 18:30:40 | cworth | Russ|werk: no, it did that before I applied the voltage. Maybe I'll just try a reset. |
| 18:30:53 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: ouch |
| 18:31:10 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: maybe we could get a gtk port going |
| 18:31:15 | cworth | mallum: no. but I could tell you what I get after downloading for whatever that's worth. |
| 18:31:23 | Russ|werk | then use dillo or something |
| 18:31:32 | mallum | cworth: if thats ok ... |
| 18:31:44 | Russ|werk | cworth: you might want to check the terminals with a voltmeter |
| 18:32:00 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: I'll be working on a jffs2 image build system |
| 18:32:16 | CosmicPenguin | Anyone else have problems saving a backup image from the inferno flash? |
| 18:32:42 | cworth | Russ|werk: my problem is the software behaved differently the second time I ran "P/u 0" before the voltage source ever got near the device. |
| 18:33:06 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: A GTK+ portt would be nice, but thats a lot of work. We fight about that daily on the Microwindows ailing list |
| 18:33:20 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: I was running as root ( via su ) , but running as normal user problems went away .. .wierd |
| 18:33:23 | cworth | mallum: ea3fea06543cc69acb68b25c17790013 blob-2.0.3 |
| 18:33:31 | Russ|werk | cworth: I've never touched the stuff, tangent and bzflag seem to have experience with it |
| 18:33:45 | mallum | cworth: thx |
| 18:33:46 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: I couldn't get the "bind" command to work as a normal user |
| 18:33:49 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: why fight about it? would it require any changes to microwindows? |
| 18:34:12 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: I also saw directfb (gtk fb port) which might be interesting to look at |
| 18:34:14 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: are you on a debian system ? |
| 18:34:22 | cworth | mallum: does that match yours? |
| 18:34:34 | mallum | one sec |
| 18:34:40 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: I don't believe changes would be needed to Microwindows, just the actual work of porting the GTK code |
| 18:34:54 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: RH 7.1 running 2.4.7-ac5 |
| 18:35:00 | mallum | ea3fea06543cc69acb68b25c17790013 blob-2.0.3 |
| 18:35:09 | mallum | cworth: they match |
| 18:35:38 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: well on debian I just add my self to the 'dialout' group and I have access to the serial ports |
| 18:37:05 | CosmicPenguin | I thought I gave global rw to the serial ports, but i might have screwed up.... |
| 18:37:49 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: Oops, I was wrong.... |
| 18:39:52 | CosmicPenguin | mallum: You were right, running as normal user fixed the problem |
| 18:40:45 | CosmicPenguin | Or not: I got the progress bar, but nothing wrote on the harddrive and the damn thing is locked up..... |
| 18:41:59 | cworth | unprotects his flash! |
| 18:42:03 | CosmicPenguin | That doesn't excite me very much - What if it does the same thing on the blob download? |
| 18:42:44 | Russ|werk | what do you mean by "locked up" |
| 18:43:01 | cworth | took about 4 or 5 times before it worked all the way, (dropped from f to 3 after maybe three applications) |
| 18:44:33 | nelson | cworth: we're all praying for you! |
| 18:44:50 | bworth | has fingers crossed for cworth |
| 18:45:53 | cworth | hrms.... |
| 18:46:04 | cworth | >>> c D!blob F!all flash: id=1/49 (AMD Am29LV160BB), ss=20000 fs=400000 w=2 b=0-20000 f=5 Flash write: 7a1708,35b4 -> 0-35b3 flash: 0-7fff: erasing/writing... flash: erasing boot area! (0-7fff) <7c?><terminal mode> |33C00035E834T,33322123926433332212392483o433221239256<rdp mode> <sending reset> |
| 18:46:05 | mallum | is about the falsh .. sweat drips from his palms |
| 18:46:13 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Locked up meaning no response for a very long time |
| 18:46:56 | cworth | I guess that's close to what Tangent says I should expect... |
| 18:47:32 | bworth | crosses his fingers for mallum, too |
| 18:50:05 | mallum | hmmm, its hung - is that what happened to you cworth ? |
| 18:50:11 | cworth | Consider yourself LARTed! woohoo! |
| 18:50:20 | bworth | yipee! |
| 18:50:23 | cworth | mallum: yes. same thing. |
| 18:50:32 | cworth | mallum: then I power cycled and all is good. |
| 18:50:38 | mallum | cworth: ok |
| 18:52:09 | thekernel | If the flash is somehow destroyed (erased but not rewritten) can the JTAG port be used to rewrite? |
| 18:52:54 | cworth | downloads kernel... |
| 18:53:10 | thekernel | gets downloaded? |
| 18:53:29 | thekernel | anyone? JTAG? |
| 18:53:58 | CosmicPenguin | ARGH! I'll bet that c F!all D!inferno.image worked for everybody else, huh? |
| 18:54:40 | bworth | cworth comes into the final stretch, edging ahead of mallum, CosmicPenguin has taken a fall.... |
| 18:55:26 | CosmicPenguin | Do I need to unprotect the flash to save it? |
| 18:55:50 | | rumour has it jtag is http://TuxScreen.net/wiki/view/Main/jtag or http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/ or order $20 usd dongles from http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/LART/ |
| 18:55:50 | bworth | ibot: jtag |
| 18:58:07 | mallum | cworth: did you rename the blob to just 'blob' ? |
| 18:58:17 | mallum | cworth: before copying over |
| 18:58:46 | mallum | marvels at the gf's nimble fingers |
| 18:59:42 | CosmicPenguin | Ok, then here goes the unprotect.... |
| 18:59:58 | CosmicPenguin | How many blocks should I protect with P/p? |
| 19:00:06 | cworth | mallum: yes, I copied blob-2.03 to blob first. Don't know if that mattered or not. |
| 19:00:14 | cworth | downloads ramdisk |
| 19:00:19 | mallum | cworth: locally ? |
| 19:00:26 | cworth | mallum: yes. |
| 19:00:33 | mallum | cworth: cool |
| 19:01:00 | cworth | CosmisPenguin: I was confused by that and didn't protect anything... *shrug*. I'll have to ask Tim later. |
| 19:01:09 | cworth | Cosmic even. |
| 19:01:17 | CosmicPenguin | Ok, well if it worked for you, thats good enough for me. |
| 19:01:56 | CosmicPenguin | Since I'm betting that my phone came from the same shipment as yours |
| 19:03:02 | kR | Oh, is anyone here working on the hardware at all? e.g., 5V PCMCIA |
| 19:04:22 | Russ|werk | you can do anything to the flash with jtag |
| 19:04:26 | cworth | kR: I thought Tim said at some point that someone has done the 5V hack before. (Personally, I understand that 802.11 cards work great at 3.3, so I probably won't need 5V). |
| 19:04:32 | Russ|werk | unprotect all the blocks |
| 19:04:49 | Russ|werk | 5V cards require a not yet done hardware hack |
| 19:05:01 | Russ|werk | or at least not done that I know of |
| 19:05:24 | kR | cworth: Hrm, all the 802.11b cards I have are 5V |
| 19:05:29 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: So thats a "P/p 0" or a "P/p N"? How many blocks are there? |
| 19:06:12 | cworth | kR: yes, they are. But from what I understand, they still function fine at 3.3. ;-) |
| 19:06:13 | mallum | fears he has toasted his ... |
| 19:06:27 | mallum | I not getting any lart ....... |
| 19:07:44 | kR | cworth: hm, maybe I should find someone in Colorado to test it out, eh? |
| 19:08:16 | cworth | kR: hopefully, I can let you know soon enough. :) |
| 19:08:44 | mallum | Ack - mine phone seems dead .... |
| 19:09:00 | bworth | hangs his head in silence out of respect for mallum's tuxscreen |
| 19:09:36 | mallum | cworth: what are you connecting with for the Lart - minicom right - 9600 8N1 no hardware or software control - right ? |
| 19:09:59 | kR | ***UPDATE*** the WaveLAN/ORiNOCO/Lucen card is labeled 5v but has been verified that it will operate at 3.3v (may have reduced range - but still OK) |
| 19:10:08 | cworth | mallum: yes, 9600 8N1 no FC, then reset the tuxscreen. |
| 19:10:23 | cworth | lands at "tuxscreen login:"! |
| 19:10:54 | bworth | cworth: congrats! |
| 19:11:33 | | bzflag was last seen on #tuxscreen 1 hours, 24 minutes and 23 seconds ago, saying: well, to work I go [Mon Aug 13 18:47:10 2001] |
| 19:11:33 | bworth | ibot: seen bzflag? |
| 19:11:53 | cworth | bworth: thanks! |
| 19:12:13 | Aelhaz | mallum: you should be able to fix the flash with jtag, if all else fails. I mean, if you didn't kill the board unlocking the flash, it should be OK still |
| 19:12:23 | bworth | i need to get mine ordered |
| 19:12:33 | cworth | Tim should get to work soon and I can ask some questions, (like how to get a console on the screen itself). |
| 19:13:18 | CosmicPenguin | Ack... Mallum's adventures do nothing for my peace of mind.... ;) |
| 19:13:52 | nelson | CosmicPenguin: well, whatever it was that mallum did wrong, don't you do it yourself. |
| 19:14:10 | CosmicPenguin | Any comments on that Mallum? |
| 19:14:19 | bworth | cworth: did you find the wiki pages to be accurate/complete? |
| 19:14:57 | Russ|werk | mallum: do you have flow control turned off? |
| 19:16:19 | cworth | bworth: yes. No real problems following InstallingLinux, InfernoRemote, and FlashUnlock. |
| 19:16:40 | Aelhaz | kR: I'd try my 3.3v Prism2 cards, but the wvlan_cs driver isn't there, and I haven't set up a crossdev environment yet |
| 19:16:51 | bworth | mallum: any sign of life? |
| 19:17:09 | mallum | Sorry ... on another workspace - all hope might not be lost yet |
| 19:17:33 | mallum | I've never used minicom on this machine before and it was talking to some wierd ttyS |
| 19:17:40 | bworth | cworth: cool |
| 19:19:49 | cworth | bworth: I had very slight problems on two pages, and I just updated those. |
| 19:20:39 | bworth | cworth: well, i'm going to try to paypal tim today - looks like great progress all around |
| 19:21:13 | bworth | mallum, CosmicPenguin: good luck! |
| 19:21:19 | Aelhaz | my house is so wired, I'm better off using a cf or pcmcia nic, tho. Be nice if we knew of any that work other than the Socket LP-E |
| 19:21:19 | bworth | is going home |
| 19:21:38 | mallum | hmmm, where does minicom keep its config file ...? |
| 19:21:41 | CosmicPenguin | Thanks bworth... |
| 19:21:57 | cworth | mallum: /etc/minirc I think |
| 19:22:00 | CosmicPenguin | As soon as thekernel gets back from lunch, I'm fireing this sucker up |
| 19:23:27 | mallum | CONSIDER YOUSELF LARTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 19:23:33 | Aelhaz | mallum: Oh good, it works |
| 19:23:38 | mallum | woooohooooooooooooo |
| 19:24:09 | mallum | minicom had set itself up to speak to /dev/ttyS3 which didn't exist |
| 19:24:24 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: relax now |
| 19:24:29 | CosmicPenguin | <deeep breath> |
| 19:24:35 | CosmicPenguin | Ok.... I'm next.... |
| 19:25:08 | cworth | mallum: congratulations! |
| 19:25:18 | Aelhaz | I need to do my other phone on my own, bzflag did all the installation on the other |
| 19:26:37 | mallum | cworth: thanks :) |
| 19:34:13 | cworth | sweet! Socket LP-E works perfectly. |
| 19:34:36 | Aelhaz | cworth: It's a shame they're so expensive, tho. |
| 19:36:01 | Russ|werk | hopefully now that we have partial schematics, a 5V hack can be documented |
| 19:36:36 | mallum | cworth: whats socket LP-E ? |
| 19:36:56 | Aelhaz | mallum: the LP-E is a popular CF ethernet card |
| 19:37:02 | Aelhaz | mallum: retail is about $130 |
| 19:37:15 | Aelhaz | fantastic for battery powered use, only draws 19mA |
| 19:37:46 | nelson | Do I seriously need to install Inferno?? |
| 19:38:03 | Aelhaz | nelson: or use jtag, at this point |
| 19:38:06 | mallum | Aelhaz: who makes it ? or is LP-E the make ? |
| 19:38:15 | Aelhaz | mallum: Socket :) |
| 19:38:16 | nelson | blargh. |
| 19:38:37 | Russ|werk | nelson: you could go the jtag hardware route |
| 19:38:41 | mallum | Aelhaz: you have a url ? |
| 19:38:47 | Aelhaz | nelson: The inferno boot loader only speaks the styx protocol, so you need styxmon to flash the blob onto the phone |
| 19:39:03 | Aelhaz | nelson: Guess what OS styxmon has to run on |
| 19:40:27 | nelson | Aelhaz: Linux? |
| 19:40:37 | Aelhaz | http://www.socketcom.com/product/ethernet_cf.htm |
| 19:40:45 | Aelhaz | nelson: styxmon is an inferno app |
| 19:41:15 | Aelhaz | nelson: So at this point, you really do need to use the inferno vm to get the blob onto the board. Or flash the blob via jtag. |
| 19:42:08 | mallum | nelson: why cant you install inferno ? |
| 19:42:15 | CosmicPenguin | Nelson: The inferno VM works very well, i have been happy with it so far... |
| 19:42:30 | Aelhaz | http://www.us.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10065800&loc=14577 |
| 19:42:49 | nelson | I'm just being a weenie. |
| 19:43:19 | Aelhaz | if someone wants to sniff the serial port while styxmon does it's thing, we could write a linux app to feed the blob to the phone from linux |
| 19:44:33 | mallum | gets login prompt :) |
| 19:45:04 | mallum | Aelhaz: thx for links |
| 19:45:38 | Aelhaz | mallum: Understand, the LP-E is just the only nic we know works. We have several at Lineo because previous projects specced them out |
| 19:45:58 | Aelhaz | mallum: Probably lots of other nics work - there are a bunch of Kingston CF nics on ebay right now, for instance |
| 19:46:12 | Aelhaz | I'm going to try and pick up a kingston nic on the cheap |
| 19:46:19 | mallum | Aelhaz: ok, I'll need to find which ones are sold in the UK |
| 19:46:42 | Aelhaz | mallum: there are PCMCIA nics that *probably work, too. I just haven't been able to get my hands on any of 'em |
| 19:46:53 | mallum | notices shell has tab complete and history ... what is it ? |
| 19:47:13 | Aelhaz | mallum: er, i think it's busybox ash |
| 19:47:57 | Russ|werk | it is |
| 19:48:22 | Aelhaz | mallum: Some other nics that may work - http://www.archtek.com/lan-ep_btx_16.htm http://www.trendware.com/products/TE100-PC16.htm |
| 19:48:33 | Aelhaz | those both retail for around $50 |
| 19:49:22 | kR | I have a lot of PCMCIA stuff if anyone lives in Denver area :) |
| 19:50:50 | Aelhaz | mallum: Find a store with a very liberal return policy and just try everything that says "low power" on the box :) |
| 19:52:08 | Aelhaz | The other problem is that (if i recall correctly) the pcmcia slots don't have power management capability - which means that many dual voltage cards won't work |
| 19:52:23 | Aelhaz | the current driver setup just applies 3.3v no matter what the card asks for |
| 19:52:31 | Aelhaz | this works for the LP-E |
| 19:52:37 | Aelhaz | and aparantly for orinoco wireless nics |
| 19:52:44 | Aelhaz | no telling if it'll work with any other cards |
| 19:53:28 | cworth | Aelhaz: ooh! do you mean the orinoco is working on the tuxscreen? |
| 19:53:41 | mallum | Aelhaz: I have a wavelan card .... |
| 19:53:55 | mallum | cworth: have you tried your ram upgrade ....? |
| 19:53:57 | Aelhaz | <kR> ***UPDATE*** the WaveLAN/ORiNOCO/Lucen card is labeled 5v but has been verified that it will operate at 3.3v (may have reduced range - but still OK) |
| 19:54:30 | mallum | Aelhaz: tuxscreen is missing iwconfig though ..... |
| 19:54:32 | Aelhaz | That sorta gave me the impression that it'll work |
| 19:54:42 | Aelhaz | mallum: that could be a problem |
| 19:54:48 | cworth | mallum: not yet. I'm not sure where my boss left the SODIMM and he's not in today. |
| 19:55:07 | mallum | Aelhaz: what about these reset lines ...? or is it just the voltage thats a problem ? |
| 19:55:08 | cworth | mallum: and the wavelan driver modules. |
| 19:55:16 | CosmicPenguin | Ok - Unprotect sucessful. Bring on the blob!!!!!! |
| 19:55:17 | cworth | mallum: that too... |
| 19:55:18 | Aelhaz | mallum: I have some cheapass Prism2 cards - a Linksys and a miscelanious taiwanese make - that *appear happy in the thing, but the wvlan_cs driver isn't available so they don't get a driver |
| 19:55:27 | Aelhaz | orinoco_cs and wavelan_cs are there i think |
| 19:55:52 | mallum | the iwconfig from the ipaq would work non ? |
| 19:56:15 | cworth | Aelhaz: oh, thanks. wavelan_cs is there, (I totally missed it). |
| 19:56:19 | Aelhaz | mallum: Not with the root image from tuxscreen.net - it's using uclibc instead of glibc |
| 19:56:32 | mallum | Aelhaz: ok |
| 19:56:42 | Aelhaz | mallum: I'm going to try and put the Familiar distribution on my tuxscreen |
| 19:56:56 | mallum | Aelhaz: Apparently orinoco_cs does not work on ARMs |
| 19:57:12 | mallum | Aelhaz: you have extra compact flash space ? |
| 19:57:22 | Aelhaz | rumor has it there's patches for the ipaq tiny-x server to make it work with the shannon touchscreen & keyboard |
| 19:57:38 | Aelhaz | mallum: Not right now, but 64 meg cf cards are selling for ~$40 here in the states |
| 19:58:23 | Aelhaz | low as $26 mail order |
| 19:58:43 | kR | wonder what crucial.com is selling them for now |
| 19:59:02 | kR | CF type I, right? |
| 19:59:11 | mallum | Aelhaz: is there a device for the keyboard ? it would be easy to write a hack for X that used XTEST to send keyboard events |
| 19:59:16 | cworth | Aelhaz: I may start making some custom images for the tuxscreen as well, (ipkg-based of course). |
| 19:59:18 | Aelhaz | kR: shouldn't matter I or II |
| 19:59:23 | kR | hm, theirs are $41.39 with free shipping for 32MB |
| 20:00:00 | CosmicPenguin | Ok, deep breath, here we go |
| 20:01:27 | kR | supermediastore.com has 64MB flash for $34 |
| 20:01:44 | Aelhaz | cworth: I'm looking a this - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=68&manufactory=1378 |
| 20:01:57 | Russ|werk | mallum: the keyboard should work |
| 20:02:14 | mallum | Russ|werk: with tiny-x ? |
| 20:02:38 | kR | Aelhaz: who is Mr. Flash? :-) |
| 20:02:57 | Aelhaz | mallum: bzflag was telling me on friday that there's patches for tiny-x to support the shannon keyboard. I haven't been able to substantiate that . . |
| 20:03:02 | Aelhaz | kR: No idea :) |
| 20:03:04 | Russ|werk | mallum: its a regular keyboard device, it works with normal X afaik |
| 20:03:04 | CosmicPenguin | WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO! Consider yourself larted!!!! |
| 20:03:07 | CosmicPenguin | Bob is my uncle! |
| 20:03:19 | CosmicPenguin | I |
| 20:03:23 | kR | Aelhaz: I'd rather have Memorex or something branded across the CF :-) |
| 20:03:32 | mallum | CosmicPenguin: yahaaa! |
| 20:03:34 | Russ|werk | mallum: its implemented with the device/input.c stuff, so if you want to attach something, its not a problem |
| 20:03:50 | mallum | Russ|werk: cool, didn't realise |
| 20:04:26 | Russ|werk | mallum: the keypad will probably be implemented with device/input as well |
| 20:04:36 | Russ|werk | er, drivers/input/ |
| 20:05:17 | mallum | Russ|werk: cool. I cant believe how fast you people have got all this going .... |
| 20:06:23 | Russ|werk | its a lot of fun |
| 20:06:26 | mallum | is suprised how features busy box is ... why arn't we using this on the ipaq |
| 20:06:31 | Russ|werk | there is still a lot to do |
| 20:06:38 | mallum | Russ|werk: well done !!! and thanks :) |
| 20:07:12 | Russ|werk | mainly the mongoose dsp, the brightness/contrast of the LCD, and correcting the upside down touchscreen (trivial) |
| 20:07:47 | kR | I thought the mongoose DSP was used in Linux before |
| 20:07:56 | mallum | Russ|werk: you can already read touchscreen events ? |
| 20:08:41 | Russ|werk | mallum: yah, its part of the ucb1300 chip, which is well supported under linux (the touchscreen question) |
| 20:09:13 | Russ|werk | kR: I don't even know what chip is in the mongoose module, hopefully the partial schematics have answers |
| 20:09:32 | kR | oh yeah, you're still waiting for it, huh |
| 20:09:59 | Russ|werk | mallum: you can play and record sound too, but it doesn't do anything, because you need to select an audio path with the mongoose module |
| 20:10:22 | mallum | Russ|werk: when I cat /dev/touchscreen/ucb1x00 I get no such device ..? |
| 20:11:04 | Russ|werk | I think the major/minor may be incorrect in the jffs2 image |
| 20:11:19 | Russ|werk | look in /proc/devices/ucb12x00/ts (I think) |
| 20:11:35 | Russ|werk | it should list the major # there |
| 20:11:50 | Russ|werk | or /proc/drivers/ |
| 20:11:57 | mallum | Russ|werk: ok Im with you - is it using devfs ? |
| 20:12:16 | Russ|werk | nope |
| 20:13:02 | cworth | hmm... how do I get a console on the screen? "boot console=/dev/console" didn't seem to do the trick. |
| 20:13:25 | kR | framebuffer? |
| 20:14:02 | mallum | Russ|werk: just wrong number on jffs2 image |
| 20:14:23 | CosmicPenguin | <rant>Stupid mincom</rant> |
| 20:14:36 | Russ|werk | I copied a lot of my dev files from a ramdisk, so some of them are outdated |
| 20:15:15 | Russ|werk | cworth: just do boot and it should work |
| 20:15:16 | Russ|werk | console=/dev/tty1 |
| 20:15:25 | Russ|werk | /dev/console goes to your consle, not to a paticulare device |
| 20:15:31 | nelson | is it /dev/fbconsole? |
| 20:15:43 | Russ|werk | its just tty1 |
| 20:15:57 | mallum | hmmm, not having much luck getting the microdrive to work |
| 20:16:08 | Russ|werk | mallum: whats it do? |
| 20:17:12 | mallum | Russ|werk: it recognises it, it asks for 5v.... trys to load the ide-cs.o, it cant find it ( though its there ) trying to do it manually ... |
| 20:17:57 | mallum | shannon_pcmcia_configure_socket(): Warning, Can't perform reset |
| 20:17:58 | mallum | shannon_pcmcia_configure_socket(): CS asked for 5V, applying 3.3V.. |
| 20:18:08 | mallum | I dont think its gonna work .. |
| 20:19:31 | cworth | Russ|werk: hmmm. I've never seen any activity on my screen under Linux. All bootup messages are coming to the serial port by default. With "console=/dev/tty1" they go away, but I still don't see them on the screen. :( |
| 20:20:18 | cworth | mallum: I get those messages for my Socket LP-E too, (not that that means the udrive should necessarily work). |
| 20:21:03 | cworth | time to go. Later everybody. |
| 20:21:16 | Russ|werk | cworthAWAY: ... nm then |
| 20:21:30 | Russ|werk | uname -a? |
| 20:22:02 | thekernel | don't you want to set console=tty not console=/dev/tty1 |
| 20:22:21 | thekernel | or perhaps not manually set any console... |
| 20:22:26 | Russ|werk | BZFlag might not have 2.4.7-rmk2-np1-tux1 prebuilt or the pcmcia fixes backported to 2.4.6-rmk2-np1-tux3 |
| 20:24:00 | Russ|werk | hey tim |
| 20:24:19 | Russ|werk | does the v0.3 stuff have the pcmcia fixes? |
| 20:24:33 | mallum | hi BZFlag: installation successful :) |
| 20:27:46 | BZFlag | Russ: I never put up a new kernel image. =( |
| 20:28:13 | kR | that was weird |
| 20:28:19 | Russ|werk | it happens |
| 20:28:50 | kR | is lineo a mormon-owned company? |
| 20:29:08 | Russ|werk | ummm....why? |
| 20:30:04 | Aelhaz | A lot of mormons work here, but I'm not sure about ownership. A lot of non-mormons work here, too. Especially in the other (10?) offices. |
| 20:30:16 | mallum | whats a mormon ? |
| 20:30:31 | nelson | Russ: Utah. Mormon == Member of the Church of the Latter-Day Saints. |
| 20:30:43 | Russ|werk | someone who lives in utah, or the southeastern parts of phoenix (mesa/chandler) |
| 20:30:45 | nelson | "some of my best friends are Mormons". :-) |
| 20:30:47 | kR | I saw some postings to a newsgroup mentioning mormon stuff with an address @lineo.com |
| 20:31:08 | mallum | apparently my gf's nan was a mormon |
| 20:31:11 | Russ|werk | gilbert too |
| 20:31:33 | Russ|werk | > 50% mormon population in gilbert I think |
| 20:31:59 | mallum | mormons can have ++wives ? |
| 20:32:04 | Russ|werk | no |
| 20:32:09 | Aelhaz | with the home office in utah, that's more or less a given |
| 20:32:13 | Russ|werk | only the redneck backwards mormons |
| 20:32:33 | Aelhaz | mallum: Not unless they want to get kicked out of the church |
| 20:32:37 | kR | mallum: the garden of eden is in the middle of Missouri according to them |
| 20:33:13 | mallum | ok |
| 20:33:45 | kR | One of my housemates is mormon and he started getting angry when one of the questions was "What city is said to be the site of Jesus' second coming.' and the answer was "Jerusalem" |
| 20:33:53 | kR | "er, questions for Trivial Pursuit |
| 20:34:14 | Aelhaz | that's odd |
| 20:34:57 | kR | yeah, I dunno why either |
| 20:35:31 | kR | anyway, back to tuxscreen... |
| 20:35:41 | mallum | yeah... |
| 20:36:27 | BZFlag | Lineo is not mormon owned. no connections to the lds church. |
| 20:37:50 | mallum | BZFlag: do you know anything more about these tiny-x 'romours' ? |
| 20:37:52 | BZFlag | kR: vis question.. huh? Jerusalem is correct. what did your housemate think it should be? |
| 20:38:20 | kR | BZFlag: I think he was confusing it with the missouri thing |
| 20:38:20 | BZFlag | mallum: no, but I'm interested. where? |
| 20:38:28 | | Slashdot - Updated 2001-08-13 20:57:12 | Recreating The Lost Art Of Damascus Steel | 3D First-Person Games, So Far | Ogg The Conqueror? RC2 Is Out | A New Approach To Linux Clusters |
| 20:38:28 | BZFlag | ibot: slashdot |
| 20:38:39 | Russ|werk | mallum: tinyx is mormon owned? |
| 20:39:06 | nelson | ibot: is there anything you don't know? |
| 20:39:07 | BZFlag | Russ: no, linux is mormon. didn't you know? ;-) (/me is not serious) |
| 20:39:24 | mallum | <Aelhaz> mallum: bzflag was telling me on friday that there's patches for tiny-x to support the shannon keyboard. I haven't been able to substantiate that . . |
| 20:39:57 | Russ|werk | mallum: its a regular input device |
| 20:40:12 | Russ|werk | interfaces in the same way that a USB keyboard does |
| 20:40:21 | BZFlag | no patches.. I'm running an ipaq tiny-x binary as is. I changed /dev/ts from 254,0 to 11,0 is all. |
| 20:40:31 | Aelhaz | Ah |
| 20:40:34 | Aelhaz | what about touchscreen? |
| 20:40:35 | mallum | Russ|werk: and the touchscreen the same ? |
| 20:40:41 | Aelhaz | oh, er, keyboard |
| 20:40:43 | Aelhaz | so both of 'em work now? |
| 20:40:59 | Russ|werk | mallum: touchscreen uses the stock ucb1x00 driver that is already in the kernel |
| 20:41:03 | CosmicPenguin | Login complete, all is well..... |
| 20:41:06 | BZFlag | yes. changing the char device get's both key and ts input. |
| 20:41:13 | mallum | BZFlag: does it fit on the flash ? |
| 20:41:25 | Russ|werk | I need to talk to the author about some implentation issues (hardware orientation |
| 20:43:54 | CosmicPenguin | Hey, I'm happy to see that PM Just Works (TM) on the screen. |
| 20:43:59 | CosmicPenguin | Does it ever come back? |
| 20:44:01 | mallum | BZFlag: when I mknod a /dev/ts with c 11 0 , I can cat it, but I get no output when I tough the screen |
| 20:44:10 | mallum | s/tough/touch/ |
| 20:44:20 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: it works? mine goes blank and just glows |
| 20:44:46 | CosmicPenguin | Alehaz: I assume thats working, right? But if it never comes back, thats probably not good.... |
| 20:45:01 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: mine does when i hit any key on the keyboard |
| 20:45:20 | blackpuma | BZFlag: What's the best way to transport a couple of devices to Kaysville (UT)? I drive down I-15 past Orem semi-regularly. |
| 20:45:34 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: actually, I need to improve PM so it turns the backlight off |
| 20:48:13 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: So does mine |
| 20:49:38 | Russ|werk | right now, there really isn't a standardized way to control the backlight associated with a fb, so I need to hammer that out |
| 20:50:04 | Aelhaz | Russ: I think that's true for basically all backlights. |
| 20:50:30 | Russ|werk | thats what I meant |
| 20:50:53 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Backlight brighness et, all... works just like it does on the standard UCB1x00, right? |
| 20:51:11 | Aelhaz | Russ: I Found with my toshiba notebook that different power interfaces were used to controll nearly everything |
| 20:51:41 | Aelhaz | Russ: It looks *really *weird when you power down the video chip controlling a TFT screen without turning off the LCD or backlight |
| 20:51:43 | mallum | Aelhaz: found a UK seller -> http://www.mobtech.co.uk/ecbmob/itmidx23.htm |
| 20:52:12 | Aelhaz | mallum: Yup, that's the one |
| 20:52:40 | Aelhaz | Russ: So I just timed the scripts to power off everything at the same time. *shrug* |
| 20:52:53 | Russ|werk | the backlight is controled by the GPIO pins on the ucb1x00 |
| 20:53:04 | Aelhaz | (Frankly, it looked like I'd done something to damage the screen) |
| 20:53:05 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: is that something that is standardized? |
| 20:53:37 | CosmicPenguin | I just wanted to know how close it was to the Ipaq / Assabet world... |
| 20:54:23 | Russ|werk | I think the shannon has more control over the backlight |
| 20:54:46 | Russ|werk | brightness levels, intensity levels, and power |
| 20:55:00 | Russ|werk | are the ucb gpio's the IPAQ's BCR? |
| 20:56:36 | Aelhaz | I'm looking at installing Familiar on at least one of mine. going to dive into that later this week, probably. have other stuff going on. |
| 20:56:54 | Russ|werk | yah, I'm moving this week |
| 20:57:20 | CosmicPenguin | Russ: Now that I look at it, I think its probably different on the Ipaq, but the same on the Assabet |
| 20:57:53 | Russ|werk | I hacked a bit on the sa1100_frontlight thing in the nico patches |
| 20:58:00 | Aelhaz | picked up a 64 meg CF card for $35 after shipping |
| 20:58:17 | Russ|werk | its a bit different, its very easy to set on the shannon |
| 20:58:19 | Aelhaz | they wanted $5 more to ship the pcmcia adapter, tho, highway robbery. |
| 20:58:43 | Russ|werk | sa1100_frontlight needs a lot of reworking |
| 20:59:11 | BZFlag | is back. |
| 20:59:32 | BZFlag | mallum: I ran X of an NFS debian install. |
| 21:02:13 | mallum | BZFlag: oh yes, I saw the shot - didn't realise that was tiny-x |
| 21:02:24 | BZFlag | mallum: I did not try cating /dev/ts but I do get input on the X server |
| 21:02:56 | mallum | BZFlag: ok |
| 21:03:40 | BZFlag | hmmm... fbvnc anyone? ;-) |
| 21:03:54 | mallum | BZFlag: nice |
| 21:04:09 | BZFlag | don't have it, just thinking what to do with the rest of flash. |
| 21:04:16 | mallum | BZFlag: everything has to be compiled against ulibc right ? |
| 21:04:47 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: I want to do some form of GTK on fb |
| 21:04:59 | Russ|werk | mallum: easy to change, but it will cost you 800k |
| 21:05:01 | BZFlag | fb vnc should be possible. perhaps if tiny-x were compiled against uclibc then x, and vncviewer might both fit. that would be sweet. |
| 21:05:04 | mallum | BZFlag: Im thinking my stinget joystick fits in the back and if theres a framebuffer snes9x port .... |
| 21:05:29 | kR | play snes games while talking on the phone |
| 21:05:39 | mallum | Russ|werk: does most stuff now compile against ulibc ? |
| 21:06:14 | mallum | I also saw a framebuffer webbrowser today |
| 21:06:32 | nelson | Aelhaz: where did you get this 64MB CF card? |
| 21:06:44 | mallum | Russ|werk: with jffs2 how much approx space have we got to play with ? |
| 21:06:56 | BZFlag | yeah, Lineo has one of those too. with a virtual keyboard, javascript, frames, ttf, etc. It would fit fairly easily but is not GPLed at present. |
| 21:07:15 | BZFlag | mallum: the rootfs now is < 700k out of 3M |
| 21:07:38 | Russ|werk | mallum: anything c++ doesn't compile |
| 21:07:52 | BZFlag | and we could salvage another ... |
| 21:08:01 | Aelhaz | nelsonDINNER: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=68&manufactory=1378 |
| 21:08:04 | | 896 |
| 21:08:04 | BZFlag | ibot 1024 - 128 |
| 21:08:13 | | 384 |
| 21:08:13 | BZFlag | ibot 896 - 512 |
| 21:08:33 | | 352 |
| 21:08:33 | Russ|werk | ibot: 384 - 32 |
| 21:08:34 | Aelhaz | I can't vouch for anything but the price. haven't got it yet. |
| 21:08:41 | Russ|werk | is this game fun yet? |
| 21:08:44 | BZFlag | at least salvage another 384 k from the kernel partition. More if we get the blob jffs2 read patches done. |
| 21:09:03 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: happen to know when erikm gets back? |
| 21:09:09 | mallum | BZFlag: df gives 3 megs but I thought that wasn't true as it doesn't take jffs2 into account ? |
| 21:09:23 | Russ|werk | mallum: jffs2 is a compressed fs |
| 21:09:32 | Russ|werk | mallum: so it can't give accurate numbers |
| 21:09:35 | BZFlag | Russ: got an email someplace, but I don't recall. monday next week perhaps? |
| 21:10:00 | mallum | Russ|werk: ok, is an estimate of 2.5 times the value that df gives accurate or way out ? |
| 21:10:35 | BZFlag | I think the df numbers are show free uncompressed flash memory. the in use numbers include the actual in use area and the GC blocks. |
| 21:11:41 | BZFlag | mallum: I'd stay closer to 2 times df and less if you are putting in jpg,mpg, etc type files. |
| 21:12:13 | mallum | BZFlag: jffs2 basically uses zip style compression right ? |
| 21:12:24 | Russ|werk | it mainly uses deflate |
| 21:12:31 | Russ|werk | but has other compressors |
| 21:13:35 | CosmicPenguin | The lack of C++ is going to be a pain in the butt |
| 21:14:02 | Aelhaz | CosmicPenguin: you don't have to use uclibc, it just might be tough to fit it all in the 4 meg on board if you don't |
| 21:14:05 | mallum | 'c++ is evil, code in c , code in c ... ' |
| 21:14:17 | Russ|werk | I really think its a blessing |
| 21:14:24 | CosmicPenguin | Aelhaz: Believe me, I want to use uclibc - but the browser I want to use is C++, no way around that |
| 21:14:40 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: switch to a different browser? |
| 21:14:56 | mallum | dillo on gtk framebuffer ... ? |
| 21:15:05 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: I don't know if anyone has made a linux browser device with 4M of flash before |
| 21:15:18 | CosmicPenguin | GTK framebuffer restricts you too much..... |
| 21:15:25 | CosmicPenguin | It doesn't play nice with Microwindows |
| 21:16:13 | CosmicPenguin | ViewML will sit at about 1100 KB static right now, a little bit less if I share some of the libraries..... Thats not bad, but it doesn't |
| 21:16:13 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: the GTKfb port is bitrotted anyway |
| 21:16:20 | Aelhaz | Russ: I don't see any reason why lynx wouldn't work . .. . :) |
| 21:16:20 | CosmicPenguin | leave alot of room for playing around. |
| 21:16:55 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: directfb looks fairly up to date, but doesn't seem targetted towards embedded |
| 21:18:49 | CosmicPenguin | What exactly is the beef between C++ and uClibc? The reports on the web are vague at best.... |
| 21:19:09 | mallum | http://www.nocrew.org/software/zen/ |
| 21:19:21 | mallum | fb web browser ^^^^^^ |
| 21:21:27 | Russ|werk | the loader doesn't understand C++ code IIRC |
| 21:22:07 | mallum | Russ|werk: do you work at lineo too ? |
| 21:22:12 | Russ|werk | so its something that can be fixed |
| 21:22:14 | Russ|werk | mallum: nope |
| 21:22:41 | CosmicPenguin | What if you compile libstdc++ with uClibc.... does it help? |
| 21:23:43 | Russ|werk | it won't compile |
| 21:23:59 | Russ|werk | you can't even compile a main() {} program |
| 21:24:25 | Russ|werk | mallum: uClibc also doesn't have pthreads (on andersee's todo list) |
| 21:24:26 | CosmicPenguin | Booo..... |
| 21:24:48 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: if you understand ld.so stuff and arm, you are welcome to fix it |
| 21:25:21 | CosmicPenguin | Hehe.... no such luck here. I wish I could though, because it would make my life much much better...... |
| 21:25:43 | mallum | Russ|werk: the guy that wrote uClibc stuff works at lineo too - the website doesn't mention an ARM port ? |
| 21:26:17 | mallum | realises he is thinking aloud, and he should get to bed |
| 21:26:36 | Russ|werk | shanenay did an arm port |
| 21:28:30 | Russ|werk | er, the arm port |
| 21:28:34 | mallum | Russ|werk: do you have a url for it ? |
| 21:30:58 | Russ|werk | oss.lineo.com |
| 21:31:15 | Russ|werk | just grab the CVS, its probably in the tarballs |
| 21:31:21 | Russ|werk | you need a working arm toolchain |
| 21:31:44 | mallum | Russ|werk: I have one of them somewhere ..... |
| 21:31:49 | Russ|werk | you could grab erik's from the lart pages |
| 21:32:34 | mallum | Russ|werk: can uClibc co-exist with glibc ? |
| 21:33:33 | Russ|werk | yes |
| 21:33:44 | Russ|werk | it names the libs differently |
| 21:34:04 | Russ|werk | I can run my uClibc binaries natively on my debian arm box |
| 21:34:20 | mallum | Russ|werk: so I could use intimate ... and just hack makefiles ? |
| 21:34:29 | Russ|werk | the default install just puts everything in /usr/arm-uclibc-linux/ for cross compiling though |
| 21:35:02 | Russ|werk | to make stuff, you just use arm-uclibc-gcc, arm-uclibc-ld, etc |
| 21:35:36 | mallum | Russ|werk: cool.. and thats from the lart pages ? |
| 21:35:38 | Russ|werk | I made symlinks in /usr/local/bin to /usr/arm-uclibc-linux/usr/bin |
| 21:36:38 | Russ|werk | the lart pages have a 2.95.2 arm toolchain that goes in /data/cross/lart |
| 21:36:48 | mallum | Russ|werk: out of interest what arm box do you use - a netwinder ? |
| 21:36:53 | Russ|werk | the binaries are arm-linux-gcc, etc |
| 21:37:07 | Russ|werk | no, a nesa with a network block device root |
| 21:37:31 | Russ|werk | its a prototype firewall thing I designed here |
| 21:38:27 | mallum | Russ|werk: cool |
| 21:39:27 | mallum | Russ|werk: I will dig around oss.lineo cvs tommorow and see what I can find |
| 21:40:10 | Russ|werk | the module is called uClibc |
| 21:40:37 | Russ|werk | I can give you my diffs for the config (so nfsmount/%m, etc works) |
| 21:41:56 | mallum | thx |
| 21:42:30 | mallum | I will try tommorow, build a toolchain on this laptop ... |
| 21:42:42 | Russ|werk | uclibc you mean? |
| 21:42:59 | mallum | yes |
| 21:43:07 | mallum | I think |
| 21:43:07 | Russ|werk | k, thought you meant gcc |
| 21:43:10 | mallum | is tired |
| 21:44:09 | mallum | so one sec - the stuff on lineo contains not just the uClibc libs but a special arm'd uClibc'd gcc ? |
| 21:45:15 | mallum | or just the uClibc libs you use with the arm gcc toolchain from lart pages ? |
| 21:53:11 | Russ|werk | uclibc wraps around an arm toolchain |
| 21:53:32 | Russ|werk | to arm-uclibc-gcc is ultimately a wrapper for your gcc (arm-linux-gcc) |
| 21:58:41 | CosmicPenguin | Russ - Did you do anything special to your uclibc config for ARM? |
| 21:59:26 | CosmicPenguin | needs to read backwards in the log |
| 22:00:02 | CosmicPenguin | Russ - Russ could you give me your diffs for the uclibc config (better)... :) |
| 22:01:05 | mallum | Russ|werk: could you put some info up on the wiki ? |
| 22:03:34 | mallum | ok bedtime for me. |
| 22:04:21 | mallum | Many thanks Russ|werk, BZFlag, Aelhaz for your help and hard work . |
| 22:04:25 | mallum | night all |
| 22:21:14 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: yah, lemme ssh home |
| 22:21:37 | BZFlag | at least that's not blocked. ;-) |
| 22:21:53 | Russ|werk | I will move into my dorm tomorrow |
| 22:22:07 | Russ|werk | dhs.org should be updated by thursday am |
| 22:23:50 | Russ|werk | CosmicPenguin: |
| 22:23:58 | Russ|werk | extra/Configs/Config.arm |
| 22:24:01 | Russ|werk | -CROSS = #arm-linux- |
| 22:24:01 | Russ|werk | +CROSS = arm-linux- |
| 22:24:10 | Russ|werk | -INCLUDE_RPC = false |
| 22:24:10 | Russ|werk | +INCLUDE_RPC = true |
| 22:24:19 | Russ|werk | (as well as fixing you kernel source) |
| 22:24:26 | Russ|werk | libc/stdio/printf.c |
| 22:24:29 | Russ|werk | -#define WANT_GNU_ERRNO 0 |
| 22:24:30 | Russ|werk | +#define WANT_GNU_ERRNO 1 |
| 22:24:43 | Russ|werk | and thats it, do you want a full diff?= |
| 22:25:22 | CosmicPenguin | No, thats OK, I can go off of that.... |
| 22:26:50 | Russ|werk | its pretty sane out of the box |
| 22:27:51 | BZFlag | Russ or CosmicPenguin: can we dump that to a wiki page please? |
| 22:28:08 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: yah, I'm also working out a build system |