| 00:01.28 | purple_cow | neat, the case i ordered is shipping today |
| 00:14.29 | scanline | yay, case |
| 00:19.20 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7808 10fyre/src/Element.cs: add an Edit() stub |
| 00:19.52 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7809 10fyre/src/Element.cs: whoops, make it compile |
| 00:28.44 | scanline | purple_cow: I like the graph search idea. I'm thinking that the base class stuff at the beginning is too complicated. No reason to distinguish between primitives/composites, and 'equivalence' should just be a strict comparison of type classes and children |
| 00:29.13 | scanline | coersions will have to be able to imply parallelization |
| 00:29.58 | purple_cow | scanline: well, i think there needs to be *some* distinguishing |
| 00:30.05 | scanline | the idea of having 'wildcard' types and all this is interesting, but I'd much rather just let pads do type negotiation |
| 00:30.32 | scanline | an output pad would ask the input pad it's connected to whether its type is supported- if so, it would do a coersion, if not the pads wouldn't connect |
| 00:30.35 | purple_cow | scanline: how would we represent things like matrices of a specific rank? |
| 00:30.50 | scanline | programmatically, in the type negotiation method |
| 00:31.10 | scanline | if you want to represent some language for notating the types, it's just going to end up really restrictive, or some degenerate form of first order logic |
| 00:31.48 | purple_cow | scanline: i guess i don't really have any idea how you're thinking the negotiation will work |
| 00:32.01 | scanline | ok, I'll walk through an example |
| 00:32.33 | scanline | let's say you're adding two vectors in an iteration loop |
| 00:33.03 | scanline | whatever elements are providing the vectors would have output pads connected to input pads on a summation element |
| 00:33.14 | scanline | the output pads would know what data type they have already |
| 00:33.22 | scanline | they would call a method on their corresponding input pad |
| 00:33.40 | scanline | that method would either search for a valid coersion and return it, or it would fail |
| 00:33.52 | scanline | if it fails, you can't connect the pads in the GUI |
| 00:34.05 | scanline | if it succeeds, that coersion gets stored wherever we're storing the data for connections between elements |
| 00:34.41 | scanline | I really feel strongly that this should be patterned after Numeric's design, to avoid introducing all this extra complexity |
| 00:34.48 | scanline | most of Numeric's power comes from the way it handles types |
| 00:35.20 | purple_cow | scanline: well, what i was thinking with the whole type thing is that there are varying levels of requirements |
| 00:35.36 | purple_cow | for example, a pixmap would *require* points of rank 2 |
| 00:35.36 | scanline | example? |
| 00:35.43 | purple_cow | but other matrix things wouldn't care |
| 00:35.53 | scanline | right. and that's easy to implement in a type negotiation method |
| 00:36.04 | scanline | if we try to encode that somehow, it would just get overcomplicated and ridiculous |
| 00:36.49 | purple_cow | ahh, so that's what the whole method thing is about |
| 00:36.51 | purple_cow | gotcha |
| 00:37.15 | scanline | I'm really advocating the lack of strict typing on pads |
| 00:37.27 | scanline | it should be a pad's job to figure out how to use whatever we give it |
| 00:37.36 | scanline | that will probably involve a coersion, but it really depends on the pad |
| 00:37.39 | scanline | and it may fail |
| 00:38.06 | scanline | we probably can only detect a failure when trying to actually assemble the pipeline by propagating types through it |
| 00:38.46 | scanline | the downside is that we leave open the possibility of type errors that we can't detect statically- just like with Numeric and Python |
| 00:38.56 | scanline | but it makes the whole thing simpler and more powerful |
| 00:39.28 | scanline | in fact |
| 00:39.36 | scanline | with a model like this, we don't even need a type system |
| 00:39.44 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7810 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add an empty CodeSnippet element. this will be the testbed for Edit() |
| 00:39.45 | scanline | just make a base class representing anything that can be passed between pads |
| 00:39.56 | scanline | then subclasses of that could represent matrices, vectors, scalars, etc |
| 00:40.11 | ChipX86 | TD: heh, I am so glad I didn't work at Novell :) |
| 00:40.14 | scanline | there would be no class for 3x2 matrices, for example- just instances of matrix that happen to be 3x2 |
| 00:40.17 | TD | hehe |
| 00:40.20 | TD | ChipX86: yeah. me too |
| 00:40.28 | TD | novell have some seriously weird shit going down there |
| 00:41.16 | ChipX86 | #gnome-hackers conversations |
| 00:41.17 | TD | purple_cow: imported from #gnome-hackers, i'm afraid |
| 00:42.01 | purple_cow | scanline: so, uhh, how do we enforce anything in the GUI when we don't have any data yet? :P |
| 00:42.37 | scanline | well, I see two options |
| 00:42.44 | scanline | the easy way out is to just make all type errors runtime-only |
| 00:43.27 | purple_cow | that seems like it would make assembling pipelines a lot more of a pain |
| 00:43.33 | scanline | but the better way is to just evaluate pipeline elements once when they're first connected, to verify that whatever type you get out of all the pads actually connects properly to the inputs |
| 00:44.01 | scanline | there could even be a method on element that would do an evaluation that returns an arbitrary result of the right type |
| 00:44.08 | scanline | so you don't have to waste CPU on calculations when checking a pipeline |
| 00:44.49 | scanline | if you can guarantee that, given inputs of the same 'type' (which may include size or other qualities) the output will always be of the same 'type' |
| 00:44.53 | scanline | so you can check everything statically |
| 00:45.07 | scanline | if not, you'll get a runtime type error |
| 00:45.17 | scanline | well |
| 00:45.22 | scanline | compile-time |
| 00:45.55 | scanline | I'm not sure where the type coersion process fits in with compiling the pipeline. I'm sure most elements would want to do it before compiling, 'baking' in the coersions in the generated code |
| 00:46.01 | scanline | but I'm not sure if that should be required |
| 00:46.33 | purple_cow | i was thinking we could have a standard set of coercions (things like int->float, etc) |
| 00:46.50 | purple_cow | and elements could override those if they needed something special (like how color uses different ranges for int and float) |
| 00:47.35 | scanline | I still think you're making this too complicated |
| 00:48.02 | scanline | I can see how a separate 'type' object would make this easier, especially assuming we do all type checking statically |
| 00:48.15 | scanline | but I'd much rather just have elements do all their own conversions |
| 00:48.46 | purple_cow | one thing i was toying with was allowing plugins to define new types :P |
| 00:48.50 | scanline | an element that needs a color could just wrap its input type in a Color() constructor/converter/whatever, and that function would do the conversion |
| 00:49.07 | purple_cow | i really don't want to have to have every plugin know about every possible type |
| 00:49.15 | scanline | new types, that would be supported by existing elements? why would that require someone else to do coersion? |
| 00:49.32 | scanline | all the interesting cases I can think of would just require basic operator overloading on the types |
| 00:50.01 | purple_cow | how does that deal with things like color being either [0.0,1.0] or [0,255] ? |
| 00:50.26 | scanline | you're saying that color, float, or int could be plugins? |
| 00:50.55 | scanline | this smells suspiciously like picogui2... |
| 00:51.16 | scanline | the "Everything's a plugin!" design pattern got us into so much trouble |
| 00:52.53 | purple_cow | scanline: i just don't like things to have to know about everything else |
| 00:52.58 | scanline | I'm also thinking that coersions should be as nonexistent as possible |
| 00:53.08 | scanline | for speed, elements really need to know about all (or at least most) of the types |
| 00:53.09 | purple_cow | and a flexible coercion model seems like a good way to avoid that |
| 00:53.56 | purple_cow | if we keep the type model small, that would work. i'm just dreading the day we decide we need a new type X and have to modify every single element |
| 00:53.57 | scanline | I don't want to convert floats to doubles then back just to do an addition, and I don't want to convert pixels to ints and back just to do a multiply or clamping or whatever |
| 00:54.27 | scanline | the type model *should* be small. To get efficient code, the types and elements need to know about each other in detail, or we need a really really abstract way of representing types |
| 00:54.34 | scanline | either way, it's a lot of code if we have a ton of types |
| 00:55.05 | scanline | when I add two colors, I don't want type coersion nonsense and method invocations and such |
| 00:55.11 | scanline | I want 1 or 2 instructions |
| 00:55.36 | scanline | the whole point of this isn't to be the next Python, it's a *fast* but easy way to generate computational artwork |
| 00:56.36 | scanline | I think the best way to define an element is something like this... |
| 00:56.57 | scanline | it has a set of input and output pads of course. They have descriptions, but no types assigned to them |
| 00:57.26 | scanline | when you compile the element, you input a set of types for its input pads, and your output is a set of types for its output pads, plus a chunk of code that will actually generate output values of those specified types from a set of input values |
| 00:57.39 | scanline | when you compile the element, you bake in a particular set of types |
| 00:57.52 | scanline | it's the compile-time code's responsibility to generate the best code possible given that set of types |
| 00:57.58 | scanline | then the output types are just whatever's convenient |
| 00:58.13 | scanline | it's the input-side's problem to do conversions or adjust the generated code in whatever way's necessary |
| 00:58.25 | scanline | it becomes a lot like a template, parameterized by all the input types |
| 00:59.01 | scanline | that's how Numeric works, but with as much as possible separated into a compilation step |
| 00:59.14 | purple_cow | if we do whatever is convenient, it seems like we're going to get a lot of uncessary conversions |
| 00:59.23 | scanline | no, just the opposite |
| 00:59.35 | scanline | you avoid doing conversions "just 'cuz" on the output side |
| 00:59.41 | scanline | then only the necessary conversions happen on the input side |
| 00:59.47 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 01:00.00 | scanline | this means if you have an element that outputs some crazy fixed point integer format, but another element also accepts that format, no conversions happen |
| 01:00.09 | scanline | you could use that for premultiplied alpha channels, for example |
| 01:01.07 | scanline | simple and efficient |
| 01:03.11 | scanline | code snippet? |
| 01:03.56 | purple_cow | well, i was thinking instead of things like equation, you could just write a small snippet of C# code and specify the types of the variables you used |
| 01:04.21 | scanline | oh, right |
| 01:04.37 | scanline | well, what kind of types would the code snippet support? |
| 01:04.50 | scanline | you could just have the element always try to coerce into the types defined in the code |
| 01:05.03 | scanline | it won't be as efficient as using 'smarter' elements, but it will let you do arbitrary nonsense |
| 01:05.29 | scanline | that's one reason the equation rather than code snippet might make more sense- the element has a lot more freedom to optimize an equation |
| 01:06.15 | scanline | I'm thinking we'll have several 'primitive' elements like addition, subtraction, etc. that are elements in their own right but also really convenient to use as building blocks for other elements |
| 01:06.34 | purple_cow | those might need additional info based on the types flowing through them =/ |
| 01:06.46 | scanline | oh? |
| 01:06.48 | purple_cow | how do you specify clamping behavior when adding two colors? |
| 01:07.12 | scanline | why is clamping part of addition? |
| 01:07.20 | scanline | just make a separate clamp operation |
| 01:07.42 | scanline | that's how Cg and every other shading language I've seen does it |
| 01:08.06 | scanline | I'm also not sure we even want a 'color' data type |
| 01:08.12 | scanline | since there are multiple ways of representing a color |
| 01:08.36 | scanline | I'd prefer using RGBA 4-vectors of floats most places, but providing a separate data type for packed pixels |
| 01:08.52 | scanline | since operations on a 32-bit pixel word are going to be substantially different than they would be on a 4-vector of floats |
| 01:09.02 | scanline | and much much faster than any silly coersion |
| 01:10.39 | pagefault | hey tivo suggest this |
| 01:10.40 | purple_cow | that will probably involve making some special input element for colors |
| 01:11.16 | scanline | probably. Either that or we have a subclass of vector for 'color vectors' |
| 01:11.30 | purple_cow | maybe we can just have a generic input element with settings that let you specify type & bounds |
| 01:11.36 | scanline | hmm. I like that |
| 01:11.42 | scanline | bounds, especially |
| 01:12.55 | purple_cow | then we can just create the GUI out of all of those and enforce full connection within the pipeline |
| 01:13.13 | scanline | yes. that will simplify things muchly, and solve a lot of GUI representation issues |
| 01:13.17 | scanline | like tools, and bounds |
| 01:13.24 | scanline | and probably multiple ways of entering vectors |
| 01:13.29 | scanline | colors are a great example |
| 01:13.42 | scanline | another would be a special widget for entering unit vectors |
| 01:15.26 | purple_cow | we still haven't solved the question of how we represent our types :P |
| 01:15.37 | *** join/#tacobeam file[laptop] (~file@mctnnbsah25-142166090204.nb.aliant.net) |
| 01:16.11 | scanline | I think your ideas on that made sense. Classes like Type, Float, Vector(3, Float)... |
| 01:17.00 | scanline | Vector would be a type class, whereas Vector(3, Float()) would be an actual type instance |
| 01:17.10 | scanline | to borrow python syntax |
| 01:17.45 | scanline | might as well also adopt Numeric's shape and type notation |
| 01:18.04 | scanline | something like Matrix( Float(), (4,) ) would be a 4-vector of floats |
| 01:18.12 | *** join/#tacobeam dcbahr (~BOFHIRC@c-24-9-106-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:23.40 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 01:24.00 | purple_cow | if we enforce typing in the GUI, that means pipelines will have to be built front->back |
| 01:24.24 | scanline | not necessarily |
| 01:24.52 | scanline | I'd rather just give the user some indication that there's an error rather than preventing them from making a connection |
| 01:25.15 | scanline | maybe we label edges with some indication of the type they carry, but draw them in red or stippled gray or something to indicate that they're bad |
| 01:25.21 | scanline | and the pipeline won't run as long as bad connections exist |
| 01:25.40 | purple_cow | sounds good |
| 01:25.42 | scanline | that would be a lot less frustrating than having to ensure that the types stay sane as you build the pipeline |
| 01:26.22 | scanline | hrm |
| 01:26.31 | scanline | I should find some food, then try to actually get cranking on this design |
| 01:26.43 | scanline | I've mostly just been configuring stuff and talking to people :P |
| 01:28.31 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7811 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/ (4 files in 2 dirs): get rid of CodeSnippet, since that will be too difficult |
| 01:41.52 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7812 10fyre/src/ (10 files in 4 dirs): add an Input element, get rid of everything smelling of static types |
| 01:45.08 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7813 10fyre/TODO: add an item for someone looking to play with gtk |
| 01:51.04 | purple_cow | ooh. laika are *really* good |
| 01:51.24 | pagefault | this cheese is so good |
| 01:52.12 | *** join/#tacobeam laodamas (~cehoward@c-67-166-53-18.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:53.00 | pagefault | mmm caffeinated beer |
| 01:53.56 | file[laptop] | heavy snowfall warning continued! |
| 01:54.11 | pagefault | noo |
| 01:54.12 | pagefault | it's spring |
| 01:54.48 | file[laptop] | I'm afraid not Eric! |
| 01:55.26 | pagefault | silly file and his silly weather |
| 01:55.33 | file[laptop] | indeed |
| 01:56.03 | pagefault | this candy needs to dry out and get really hard |
| 01:56.54 | file[laptop] | school needs to be cancelled tomorrow |
| 01:57.03 | pagefault | yes |
| 01:57.07 | pagefault | but it's going to be sunny here tomorrow |
| 01:57.24 | file[laptop] | not here |
| 01:58.03 | file[laptop] | I should go to sleep early |
| 02:00.20 | file[laptop] | yay 11PM |
| 02:00.28 | *** join/#tacobeam lalo (~lalo@211.99.140.115) |
| 02:00.39 | *** join/#tacobeam lal1 (~lalo@211.99.140.115) |
| 02:01.18 | *** part/#tacobeam lal1 (~lalo@211.99.140.115) |
| 02:02.37 | file[laptop] | pagefault: Staples has whiteboards for cheap :) |
| 02:03.06 | file[laptop] | makes me happy |
| 02:03.45 | pagefault | cool |
| 02:03.46 | pagefault | I should pick up one |
| 02:03.49 | pagefault | for doodling things on |
| 02:04.18 | file[laptop] | $24.96 for an 18x24 |
| 02:04.33 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7814 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/StochasticBlur.cs: move stochastic blur into 'miscellaneous'. we should probably find a different category name for all the existing things in 'arithmetic', so we can use that one for things like addition |
| 02:04.34 | pagefault | interesting |
| 02:04.44 | pagefault | although I was impressed with office depot |
| 02:04.47 | pagefault | I bought a chair from them |
| 02:04.49 | pagefault | and they shipped it free |
| 02:04.51 | pagefault | the next day |
| 02:04.54 | file[laptop] | with wood around the edge |
| 02:05.04 | file[laptop] | $14.96 for the same size, metal |
| 02:05.14 | pagefault | I will have to go with wood |
| 02:05.55 | file[laptop] | $32.41 for 24x36, $49.95 for 36x48 |
| 02:06.24 | ChipX86 | *sob* I want my package |
| 02:06.24 | file[laptop] | not tooo bad |
| 02:06.29 | ChipX86 | and yay home |
| 02:06.59 | ChipX86 | yay! but that's not a 20.1" widescreen LCD monitor :( |
| 02:07.22 | file[laptop] | well, we can't all have what we want at the moment |
| 02:07.26 | pagefault | whiteboards in the future should be able to copy what is on it into a file |
| 02:07.28 | pagefault | which you can e-mail |
| 02:07.50 | file[laptop] | my physics teacher has a smartboard... it's cool |
| 02:08.06 | pagefault | what is a smartboard? |
| 02:08.45 | file[laptop] | giant touchscreen, with a projector to project a computer output onto it |
| 02:08.50 | file[laptop] | and you can use it as a mouse, writing, etc |
| 02:09.02 | pagefault | ooh |
| 02:09.03 | pagefault | neat |
| 02:09.41 | file[laptop] | yup yup yup |
| 02:09.47 | file[laptop] | it's cool to play solitaire on |
| 02:10.02 | file[laptop] | hrm these Intel drivers are still broken |
| 02:10.04 | file[laptop] | time to downgrade again |
| 02:10.09 | pagefault | wireless? |
| 02:10.30 | purple_cow | typically the "digital whiteboards" suck a whole lot |
| 02:10.31 | file[laptop] | yes |
| 02:10.31 | file[laptop] | brb |
| 02:10.40 | pagefault | I use whatever ubuntu shipped with |
| 02:10.43 | pagefault | they seem stable |
| 02:10.57 | purple_cow | just like every other pen input device on a computer |
| 02:12.31 | pagefault | haha |
| 02:12.33 | pagefault | silly futurama |
| 02:12.39 | pagefault | what was number 1? |
| 02:12.41 | pagefault | I hate you |
| 02:12.46 | pagefault | I thought that was number 2 |
| 02:12.54 | pagefault | I knocked it up another notch |
| 02:12.56 | pagefault | bam! |
| 02:16.57 | scanline | mm |
| 02:17.07 | scanline | I think I found the perfect environment to do this protel stuff in |
| 02:17.53 | scanline | win2k with snapshots inside a quick-switch VMware on yoshi, with synergy sharing my mouse and keyboard with my laptop |
| 02:18.09 | scanline | then IRC, AIM, data sheets, and such on the lappy |
| 02:18.17 | *** join/#tacobeam file[laptop] (~file@mctnnbsah25-142166090204.nb.aliant.net) |
| 02:18.21 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 02:18.30 | pagefault | greetings |
| 02:18.47 | file[laptop] | downgrade done |
| 02:18.48 | scanline | ChipX86: it will be extra nice when I have two monitors again and vmware can do cool things with multihead |
| 02:20.09 | pagefault | hmm |
| 02:20.17 | pagefault | I would like them to finish monitor mode in the intel drivers |
| 02:20.41 | purple_cow | scanline: quick, gimme a category name for "2d transform", "cartesian product" and "matrix multiply" |
| 02:21.17 | scanline | well, '2d transform' could go into a 'geometry' category, but the other two might as well stay in arithmetic |
| 02:22.04 | lurgy | if you people aren't careful the simulink people will come after you with job offers |
| 02:22.21 | scanline | haha |
| 02:22.21 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7815 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/Transform.cs: geometry sounds good to me |
| 02:22.26 | scanline | and I could be all "screw you!" at them |
| 02:23.54 | lurgy | hehe |
| 02:23.58 | lurgy | as you should |
| 02:24.02 | ChipX86 | yay Jamie has DSL! |
| 02:24.08 | scanline | lurgy: it's fun :) |
| 02:25.02 | scanline | oh no, yummu |
| 02:25.06 | scanline | or yummy even |
| 02:25.44 | scanline | what a freaking weird mechanical layout |
| 02:27.31 | pagefault | haha |
| 02:27.37 | pagefault | futurama does a good job of ripping off iron chef |
| 02:30.45 | purple_cow | SOYRENT GREENU! |
| 02:31.55 | pagefault | hehe |
| 02:35.16 | purple_cow | wow. lamb is *damn* cool |
| 02:36.42 | pagefault | I don't get it |
| 02:36.49 | pagefault | how is WoW faster in D3D in cedega than pure OpenGL |
| 02:37.09 | purple_cow | maybe their opengl mode is poorly written? |
| 02:37.25 | pagefault | well on nvidia cards opengl is faster than d3d in cedega |
| 02:37.32 | pagefault | but on ati it's the opposite |
| 02:37.33 | pagefault | makes no sense |
| 02:37.41 | purple_cow | so ati has poor gl drivers |
| 02:37.49 | pagefault | yeah but d3d is using opengl |
| 02:38.37 | pagefault | I probably shouldn't be complaining though since the opengl renderer has issues |
| 02:42.07 | purple_cow | damn this woman has a cool voice |
| 02:42.14 | pagefault | ooook |
| 02:42.18 | pagefault | windows is officially messed up |
| 02:47.17 | scanline | is someone hogging our 802.11 bandwidth? my connection just got really awful |
| 02:48.13 | purple_cow | but my signal was kind of low... |
| 02:48.40 | scanline | my mouse is hella-laggy |
| 02:51.22 | pagefault | wardrivers |
| 02:51.45 | pagefault | or microwavers |
| 02:52.22 | purple_cow | welp, my signal is back up to 99% from 60 now... |
| 02:52.36 | pagefault | thats RF for you |
| 02:52.58 | pagefault | yes blame apple |
| 03:09.08 | ChipX86 | should I bring Jamie in? |
| 03:09.40 | file[laptop] | ooh |
| 03:10.23 | purple_cow | depends how much you trust us |
| 03:10.37 | ChipX86 | uh oh, what should I be worried about? |
| 03:10.41 | purple_cow | mwahaha |
| 03:11.44 | purple_cow | ooh, lamb has a song about aliens |
| 03:11.52 | scanline | and why the hard disk light is on so much... |
| 03:13.14 | ChipX86 | she's not coming on right now.. homework |
| 03:13.26 | ChipX86 | but yay, got the DSL and wireless up and running |
| 03:15.32 | file[laptop] | neeeeeed drink |
| 03:15.41 | ChipX86 | driiiiink need |
| 03:15.49 | ChipX86 | hmm Wow |
| 03:23.36 | file[laptop] | ChipX86: you are very silly |
| 03:24.21 | ChipX86 | what should I do for dinner |
| 03:24.41 | file[laptop] | ChipX86: chinese food |
| 03:26.34 | ChipX86 | hmm |
| 03:27.10 | file[laptop] | you know you want it |
| 03:27.36 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1143 10devices/speck/protel/ (6 files): Added a schematic symbol and PCB footprint for Speck's photodiode array, finished initial mechanical layout of the detector PCB. |
| 03:28.47 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1144 10devices/speck/protel/: svn:ignore |
| 03:29.50 | file[laptop] | yay bed |
| 03:30.16 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7816 10fyre/src/Plugins/ (6 files in 2 dirs): much nicer syntax for creating pads |
| 03:31.32 | darth_mall | now the question is, what shall I have for dinner |
| 03:31.47 | purple_cow | children? |
| 03:31.51 | darth_mall | no, that's scanline's thing |
| 03:31.59 | nullpuppy | http://atlanta.craigslist.org/about/best/chi/65132667.html |
| 03:35.26 | purple_cow | rofl |
| 03:38.07 | scanline | haha |
| 03:39.14 | nullpuppy | awesome post |
| 03:40.12 | scanline | bleh. how the heck do you figure out what's monopolizing your disk in windows? |
| 03:40.21 | nullpuppy | http://atlanta.craigslist.org/about/best/chi/64841612.html |
| 03:40.23 | nullpuppy | omg |
| 03:41.41 | purple_cow | hah |
| 03:42.04 | scanline | hehe |
| 03:42.58 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7817 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/ (6 files in 2 dirs): add Input and Gradient elements |
| 03:43.15 | purple_cow | our element palette is going to be huge :) |
| 03:46.18 | kergoth | @familyguy |
| 03:46.19 | kbot` | kergoth: <Peter> Hey, Lois, look! The two symbols of the Republican party: an elephant and a big fat white guy who's threatened by change. |
| 03:46.56 | file[laptop] | sleeeeeeeeeep soon. |
| 03:47.04 | darth_mall | @futurama |
| 03:47.05 | kbot` | darth_mall: <Fry> I must be a robot. Why else would human women refuse to date me? |
| 03:49.50 | pagefault | @futurama |
| 03:49.50 | kbot` | pagefault: <Fry> I refuse to testify on the grounds that my organs will be chopped up into a patty. |
| 03:50.07 | pagefault | @futurama |
| 03:50.08 | kbot` | pagefault: <Bender> I'm not allowed to sing. Court order. |
| 03:51.46 | *** join/#tacobeam KeyserLaptop (~gazicm@user-0cej5mv.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 03:55.25 | darth_mall | food makes my tummy happy |
| 04:03.36 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7818 10fyre/doc/type-system: remove most of this |
| 04:04.14 | file[laptop] | goodnight everyone |
| 04:06.12 | pagefault | night |
| 04:06.22 | KeyserLaptop | anyone make a radio button in gtk? |
| 04:06.35 | KeyserLaptop | i want all my buttons that are part of the radio, to share a signal handler |
| 04:06.53 | KeyserLaptop | and a different constant value to be passed as the func_data to the handler, depending on which button is pressed |
| 04:08.11 | KeyserLaptop | ah, nevermind. i had an extra parameter in the callback, before where the gpointer func_data was |
| 04:08.14 | KeyserLaptop | all is well |
| 04:08.17 | purple_cow | you should be able to add them all to the same group but connect to the toggled signal |
| 04:09.08 | KeyserLaptop | i think i connected to "clicked", and i am now seeing an event for the one being deselected, as well as the one being selected |
| 04:09.32 | KeyserLaptop | glade = gui gui builder? |
| 04:09.35 | purple_cow | yeah |
| 04:10.11 | purple_cow | 's why i don't remember the api for doing things like radio group |
| 04:10.12 | purple_cow | s |
| 04:10.58 | KeyserLaptop | what it is, is, when you set the callback, you can specify a gpointer to be given to the callback routine, and it's a different one for each signal you connect |
| 04:11.17 | KeyserLaptop | so you can have each of the buttons in the radio button group, pass a different constant to the same callback routine |
| 04:12.58 | purple_cow | hehe. i'm still laughing at p-a |
| 04:14.48 | darth_mall | yep |
| 04:16.06 | nullpuppy | hehe |
| 04:16.19 | nullpuppy | what is it that they refer to? |
| 04:16.27 | purple_cow | yaoi? |
| 04:16.31 | darth_mall | hehe |
| 04:16.36 | nullpuppy | yeah |
| 04:16.41 | purple_cow | it's anime featuring gay sex |
| 04:16.51 | purple_cow | (essentially) |
| 04:17.11 | nullpuppy | ah, ok |
| 04:17.18 | nullpuppy | comic makes more sense now ;) |
| 04:17.49 | *** join/#tacobeam luqui (~luqui@c-67-165-197-242.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:21.38 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7819 10fyre/src/ (Data.cs Element.cs Makefile.am): start in on the type system |
| 04:23.51 | scanline | hmm |
| 04:23.53 | scanline | OPA381... |
| 04:24.12 | scanline | so many cool ones to choose from |
| 04:25.11 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7820 10fyre/src/Data.cs: flesh out a little more. not quite sure how the value stuff is going to work on matrices |
| 04:25.25 | scanline | the difet amps are really amazing, but probably too high power consumption for this |
| 04:25.34 | scanline | 4ma per amplifier really adds up at +/- 15V |
| 04:27.40 | scanline | ooh |
| 04:27.47 | scanline | the OPA381 is available in a 3x3mm surface mount package |
| 04:27.49 | scanline | yay |
| 04:30.21 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1145 10devices/speck/protel/ (4 files): Misc. cleanup: rotated the board, trim excess margins, add markings, connect detector grounds, and flip the detector symbol. |
| 04:32.52 | KeyserLaptop | a guy i work with got a big case of vacuum tube op amps, for playing with guitar amps |
| 04:33.11 | KeyserLaptop | military surplus, i think. there's hundreds of 'em |
| 04:33.54 | KeyserLaptop | very odd at my new job, out of ~20 people, about 5 play the guitar |
| 04:35.03 | KeyserLaptop | maybe that's not an unusual number, but it must be above the critical mass required for them to have enough people to converse about guitars frequently |
| 04:36.34 | darth_mall | KeyserLaptop: cool =D |
| 04:36.47 | darth_mall | tube amps are great |
| 04:36.52 | darth_mall | my brother has one |
| 04:38.13 | purple_cow | you should... |
| 04:38.20 | purple_cow | though maybe you just get configure... |
| 04:38.50 | KeyserLaptop | nevermind, i do |
| 04:39.46 | darth_mall | paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaants |
| 04:40.04 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7821 10fyre/src/Element.cs: Check should return bool, not void |
| 04:41.28 | KeyserLaptop | oh, here's what it is: |
| 04:41.42 | KeyserLaptop | when the screen is resized, i get a configure_event, and an expose_event |
| 04:42.03 | KeyserLaptop | so for expose_event, i only need to put my pixmap back up, i don't need to redraw stuff on it. |
| 04:42.20 | KeyserLaptop | *except* that the configure event gets rid of the old pixmap, and gets a new one |
| 04:49.14 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7822 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/Gradient.cs: add an example of how this is supposed to work |
| 04:49.56 | darth_mall | hmm... Last Exile just gets better and better |
| 04:50.42 | purple_cow | darth_mall: yep :D |
| 04:51.05 | purple_cow | if you wanted to move out here... ;) |
| 04:53.43 | darth_mall | the soundtrack's kinda cool too |
| 04:53.55 | purple_cow | 'sok, i've heard better |
| 04:53.59 | darth_mall | kinda technoy |
| 04:54.44 | scanline | heh |
| 04:54.55 | scanline | still seems so silly to have a transimpedance stage then a VFC stage... |
| 05:00.16 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7823 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/ (5 files): Add a bunch of Check overrides. Some are implemented, some aren't. There seems to be a problem I didn't forsee with this in MatrixMultiply - not sure how to handle it |
| 05:00.51 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 05:01.04 | purple_cow | i suppose we could run check such that we pass all of an element's data to it at once |
| 05:01.47 | purple_cow | rather than checking individual pads |
| 05:03.45 | scanline | yeah. that will be necessary in lots of places |
| 05:08.24 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7824 10fyre/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): much better Check() signature |
| 05:10.12 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7825 10fyre/TODO: update |
| 05:11.55 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 05:12.07 | purple_cow | i think Iterative is going to make us have to check recursively until we've finished checking all elements :P |
| 05:13.56 | darth_mall | welp, it's my bed time |
| 05:13.58 | darth_mall | g'night kids |
| 05:14.22 | purple_cow | hmm, speaking of iterative |
| 05:16.53 | *** join/#tacobeam spooklight (~jamie@69.238.197.35) |
| 05:17.20 | spooklight | hugs back |
| 05:17.44 | ChipX86 | everyone, this is Jamie :) |
| 05:17.53 | spooklight | hello |
| 05:18.08 | spooklight | helloooooooooooooooo |
| 05:18.14 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7826 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/ (Iterative.cs Makefile.am data/Iterative.png data/Makefile.am): add Iterative |
| 05:19.31 | nullpuppy | omg! teh jamie! |
| 05:19.31 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7827 10fyre/ (doc/type-system src/Data.cs src/Plugins/Basic/Iterative.cs): add a Bool type, check for it in Iterative |
| 05:19.38 | nullpuppy | howdy |
| 05:19.47 | spooklight | hello, nice to meet you |
| 05:19.52 | kergoth | spooklight: welcome |
| 05:20.01 | spooklight | thank you |
| 05:20.17 | ChipX86 | we finally got her DSL up and running tonight |
| 05:20.27 | nullpuppy | yay |
| 05:20.27 | spooklight | yaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! |
| 05:20.31 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 05:20.31 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7828 10fyre/TODO: add a note about further changes to Check() |
| 05:20.39 | nullpuppy | ~emulate gir |
| 05:20.40 | jbot | do a little dance! |
| 05:20.47 | nullpuppy | aww |
| 05:20.48 | kergoth | scanline +q'd the bot |
| 05:20.49 | kergoth | :\ |
| 05:20.52 | nullpuppy | :( |
| 05:20.53 | ChipX86 | aww |
| 05:21.09 | purple_cow | and ya know, i don't miss it :P |
| 05:21.26 | ChipX86 | kergoth: yeah, perhaps we picked a poor one to play on |
| 05:21.27 | nullpuppy | :( |
| 05:21.34 | nullpuppy | perhaps :/ |
| 05:21.38 | ChipX86 | too late now |
| 05:21.58 | kergoth | gah, there it goes away |
| 05:21.58 | kergoth | er |
| 05:21.59 | kergoth | again |
| 05:22.00 | kergoth | silly fingers |
| 05:22.19 | spooklight | i have no idea what's going on but that's ok |
| 05:22.55 | ChipX86 | spooklight: WoW is World of Warcraft. The server we're on is having.. issues |
| 05:22.59 | spooklight | hellooooooooooooooo! can you hear me??? |
| 05:23.08 | kergoth | no, we cant |
| 05:23.21 | spooklight | i mean chippy |
| 05:23.25 | ChipX86 | spooklight: it died again |
| 05:23.30 | spooklight | i noticed |
| 05:23.43 | spooklight | this is fun! |
| 05:24.09 | ChipX86 | (psst. she doesn't realize how evil IRC is yet) |
| 05:24.14 | kergoth | mm, evil |
| 05:24.17 | scanline | haha |
| 05:24.20 | scanline | "Etymological Note |
| 05:24.20 | scanline | In the old days of vacuum tubes, the term transconductance was used to escribe a V/I converter. When the I/V circuit came along, doing the opposite job, it was first called a transresistance amplifier. Someone pointed out that the word was already taken, in a sense, by the transistor. So instead of resistance, impedance was substituted. Hence, transimpedance amplifier." |
| 05:25.04 | purple_cow | heh, cool |
| 05:25.17 | spooklight | waves back |
| 05:25.46 | ChipX86 | spooklight: try: /me waves back |
| 05:27.10 | purple_cow | hmm, damn, i can't find stock icons for +-*/ |
| 05:27.30 | ChipX86 | openoffice has some |
| 05:33.45 | *** join/#tacobeam zak (~user@128.138.74.40) |
| 05:33.52 | zak | i still can't mount navi |
| 05:34.01 | zak | i really don't understand what's wrong |
| 05:34.11 | scanline | :( |
| 05:34.15 | scanline | hi zak |
| 05:34.17 | zak | hiya |
| 05:34.36 | scanline | :( |
| 05:35.19 | zak | i feels like a discarded can of milk |
| 05:35.27 | zak | i bet you didn't know milk came in cans |
| 05:35.30 | zak | neither did i |
| 05:37.34 | ChipX86 | silly me, I thought they came from moocows |
| 05:37.47 | zak | they do. in cans |
| 05:37.53 | ChipX86 | oh |
| 05:38.00 | ChipX86 | I must have been doing osmething wrong when I milked that one cow |
| 05:38.54 | purple_cow | bah, can't find anything in OOo |
| 05:39.04 | zak | ehe |
| 05:55.25 | *** join/#tacobeam probe (ben@c-24-9-211-231.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:55.29 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7829 10fyre/ (9 files in 3 dirs): add an out parameter to Check() for returning the types of the output pads |
| 06:01.30 | *** part/#tacobeam spooklight (~jamie@69.238.197.35) |
| 06:02.08 | *** join/#tacobeam spooklight (~jamie@69.238.197.35) |
| 06:02.14 | *** part/#tacobeam spooklight (~jamie@69.238.197.35) |
| 06:08.16 | purple_cow | yay seth greene |
| 06:08.49 | ChipX86 | yep |
| 06:10.06 | nullpuppy | pagefault: /smack |
| 06:10.12 | kergoth | hehe |
| 06:40.09 | lurgy | purple_cow: did the new greg the bunny end up anywhere in particular? |
| 06:41.18 | zak | lurgy: you gotted a card from WA |
| 06:41.26 | zak | do you know of fun things to do in WA? |
| 06:41.50 | purple_cow | lurgy: on navi? |
| 06:41.55 | purple_cow | not sure darth_mall's put all of them up yet |
| 06:44.12 | lurgy | purple_cow: mkay |
| 06:44.23 | lurgy | zak: i think the all time #1 thing to do in WA is to avoid Spokane |
| 06:44.31 | lurgy | beyond that i have no idea |
| 06:44.47 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 06:45.04 | lurgy | well then, mission accomplished |
| 06:45.07 | lurgy | yay |
| 06:45.08 | lurgy | ! |
| 06:45.11 | zak | oik |
| 06:45.16 | scanline | star trek cd for what? |
| 06:45.39 | purple_cow | scanline: so i found this cd of star trek sound effects that for some reason i borrowed from lurgy about 6 years ago |
| 06:45.42 | zak | sleep. |
| 06:45.46 | purple_cow | maybe 7 |
| 06:46.02 | scanline | and what are you using it for? |
| 06:46.04 | scanline | zak: g'night! |
| 06:46.08 | zak | and now you need it in a bag for why? |
| 06:46.19 | purple_cow | well, i've got a 2 minute long digital audio composition to do for music tech, right... |
| 06:46.43 | purple_cow | and of course, it just wouldn't be music without a small handful of these effects |
| 06:46.50 | purple_cow | maybe a large handful |
| 06:47.00 | lurgy | hehe |
| 06:47.00 | zak | *snort |
| 06:50.25 | rioter | http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.627187,-116.847925&spn=0.024161,0.031672&t=k&hl=en |
| 06:50.29 | rioter | what is that? |
| 06:53.03 | zak | a sign for the talamasca |
| 06:53.28 | rioter | why is it in the middle of the desert? |
| 06:54.05 | zak | or the Gu'ould |
| 06:54.16 | zak | dunno |
| 06:54.24 | zak | the folks at area 51 got bored? |
| 06:55.14 | rioter | haha, google maps is fun |
| 06:56.00 | ChipX86 | hah |
| 06:57.07 | zak | rioter: buy a really big sign that says hi and afix it to your roof |
| 06:57.17 | zak | they must update every six months or so |
| 06:57.25 | rioter | i have 4 acres of bush next to me |
| 06:57.26 | zak | at some point, you can look up your house and it will say hi |
| 06:57.33 | rioter | i should carve the bush out to say hi |
| 06:57.39 | zak | hehe |
| 06:57.40 | zak | you should |
| 06:57.47 | kergoth | ChipX86: bah, the guys int he ragefire chasm, while painful and difficult, get us no exp since they're so low level (despite being elite) :\ |
| 06:57.50 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:58.01 | ChipX86 | hah |
| 06:58.04 | ChipX86 | but.. quest :( |
| 06:58.08 | kergoth | yep |
| 06:58.14 | ChipX86 | did you finish it? |
| 06:58.19 | kergoth | nope |
| 06:58.30 | kergoth | got up to a group of guys and realized i had no real good way to lure them |
| 06:58.38 | kergoth | :) |
| 06:58.50 | zak | scanline: copycat |
| 06:58.54 | zak | kergoth: why not |
| 06:59.00 | zak | it's like this: baaaaaaaaaa |
| 06:59.03 | rioter | it looks wierd when they stick together photos from different times |
| 06:59.04 | ChipX86 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:59.14 | kergoth | zak: thanks |
| 06:59.25 | zak | anytime. |
| 07:02.29 | zak | so kergoth, in reality: work or insomnia? |
| 07:17.07 | purple_cow | kergoth: i love you soooooo much for finding lamb |
| 07:17.17 | purple_cow | they're almost immediately one of my favorite groups :) |
| 07:17.40 | hardwire | lamb? |
| 07:19.35 | purple_cow | hardwire: neato electronic/vocal group |
| 07:31.50 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7830 10fyre/src/ (Element.cs Plugins/Basic/Input.cs): start restructuring the edit method a bit |
| 07:42.00 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7831 10fyre/src/ (Element.cs Pipeline.cs): more work towards edit dialogs. temporarily pop up the edit dialog when we add an element, since we don't yet have anything to double-click |
| 07:55.46 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7832 10fyre/src/ (Element.cs Plugins/Basic/Input.cs): Make editing do it's thing. Every element has at least a "comments" field now, which we'll eventually want to show in the tooltips. This still needs to be stored and serialized |
| 08:00.54 | purple_cow | this was a body, now it's a home, for you, my little alien |
| 08:06.48 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7833 10fyre/TODO: add a bunch of stuff for my enterprising lackeys to accomplish! |
| 08:11.43 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 08:16.28 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7834 10fyre/ (TODO src/Element.cs): add 'comment' as a member variable, change some of the wording on the TODO |
| 08:37.44 | ChipX86 | kergoth: server go boom |
| 08:38.22 | kergoth | doh |
| 08:38.24 | kergoth | i'm still in |
| 08:38.36 | kergoth | i hate those disconnects |
| 08:38.55 | ChipX86 | it thinks I'm still in |
| 08:38.58 | ChipX86 | I bet I'm dead |
| 08:39.01 | ChipX86 | I was in the middle of an attack |
| 08:51.45 | ChipX86 | damnit |
| 09:47.14 | ChipX86 | g'night |
| 09:48.18 | *** join/#tacobeam Secret|away (SecretMeth@uac-182-89.uac-resnet.depaul.edu) |
| 12:39.11 | ToyKeeper | There's got to be some way to make this cheaper. |
| 12:40.07 | ToyKeeper | ... looking for a way to get about 4T of storage, accessible via a windows box. |
| 12:40.58 | ToyKeeper | So far, the cheapest way I've found is to build a linux PC with a bunch of SATA disks and gig-e. |
| 13:04.46 | *** join/#tacobeam Cae (~Cae@tamulink-0089.vpn.tamu.edu) |
| 13:13.08 | Cae | morningness |
| 13:32.10 | *** join/#tacobeam pagefault_ (~pagefault@66.199.241.90) |
| 13:55.45 | *** join/#tacobeam pagefault_ (~pagefault@66.199.241.90) |
| 15:26.19 | slimspace | darth_mall, purple_cow, scanline: anyone going to class today? |
| 15:45.35 | *** topic/#tacobeam by darth_mall -> And that's.....eeeeeeeeeee!....... it's a turtle! || t-minus 1 day, and counting... || Happy 21st birthday, Cae! (yesterday) |
| 15:46.02 | darth_mall | slimspace: nope ^^ |
| 16:00.15 | scanline | stupid yoshi... |
| 16:01.04 | darth_mall | heh |
| 16:04.27 | scanline | piece of shit... |
| 16:08.38 | scanline | ahhhh |
| 16:08.49 | scanline | "fixboot" doesn't write a new MBR, just a single partition's boot record |
| 16:08.53 | scanline | but there's a "fixmbr" command |
| 16:09.17 | *** join/#tacobeam JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:10.26 | scanline | bleh |
| 16:10.31 | scanline | the bios is still being flaky |
| 16:14.27 | *** join/#tacobeam file[laptop] (~file@mctn1-6079.nb.aliant.net) |
| 16:14.33 | purple_cow | poor scanline |
| 16:14.40 | scanline | DISK BOOT FAILURE |
| 16:19.21 | lurgy | yuck |
| 16:22.42 | lurgy | yay for crimes against humanity like this performance of a bartok string quartet by a trombone quartet |
| 16:22.45 | purple_cow | time to head up to school, buy coffee, then work on my masterpiece |
| 16:23.07 | lurgy | minus the masterpiece and coffee bits |
| 16:30.33 | scanline | :) |
| 16:30.37 | scanline | hmm, coffee |
| 16:37.38 | *** join/#tacobeam Cae (~mschneide@Bloc-14.isc.tamu.edu) |
| 16:46.53 | *** join/#tacobeam SecretMethod70 (SecretMeth@uac-182-89.uac-resnet.depaul.edu) |
| 16:47.12 | *** join/#tacobeam SecretMethod70 (~SecretMet@uac-182-89.uac-resnet.depaul.edu) |
| 16:47.33 | *** join/#tacobeam SecretMethod70 (~SecretMet@uac-182-89.uac-resnet.depaul.edu) |
| 17:02.37 | darth_mall | hehe... some of these entries in Fyre's TODO crack me up... PipelineDrawing.cs: Add drawing code |
| 17:02.39 | darth_mall | ^^ |
| 17:03.27 | purple_cow | :) |
| 17:05.25 | darth_mall | it tickles me ^^ |
| 17:06.33 | darth_mall | <tardy> I love ashtrays |
| 17:10.02 | darth_mall | omg |
| 17:10.11 | darth_mall | our next program in OS is about reading and writing to files =P |
| 17:10.27 | purple_cow | yay tardy |
| 17:11.05 | darth_mall | somehow that's going to teach us about filesystems =P |
| 17:11.29 | scanline | what a great song |
| 17:11.45 | scanline | Thinking About Tomorrow |
| 17:15.34 | purple_cow | so, scanline. are you planning to help at all with the actual fyre code? :P |
| 17:15.41 | purple_cow | we've got about 2 weeks |
| 17:17.31 | scanline | uhhuh |
| 17:17.38 | scanline | I'm really busy this week :P |
| 17:23.00 | darth_mall | scanline: could you find enough time to write down the ideas you've had so that we can get started on them? I'd find that really helpful |
| 17:24.59 | darth_mall | hmm... we also need to have UML diagrams and CRC cards, don't we |
| 17:25.22 | scanline | darth_mall: I've done that on IRC a little... but I understand |
| 17:25.34 | scanline | I just really need to get this CX documentation and these boards done this week |
| 17:25.48 | scanline | I should have lots more time to work on OOP once the boards are being fabricated |
| 17:25.49 | darth_mall | mmhmm |
| 17:26.09 | purple_cow | darth_mall: and use cases |
| 17:26.12 | purple_cow | *(@#&%( |
| 17:26.22 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1146 10devices/speck/protel/ (detector-board.SchDoc parts.SchLib): Add the IVC102 precision switched integrator transimpedance amplifier |
| 17:27.27 | darth_mall | bleh |
| 17:58.01 | file[laptop] | ooh? |
| 17:58.21 | pagefault_ | trying out google local sms |
| 17:58.28 | file[laptop] | does it work? |
| 17:58.34 | pagefault_ | I will find out soon |
| 17:59.54 | file[laptop] | gah nothing good on |
| 18:00.55 | scanline | ok.. |
| 18:01.08 | scanline | there's no way in hell I'm fitting 16 of these IVC102s on my board |
| 18:01.09 | pagefault_ | nothing |
| 18:01.15 | pagefault_ | try sending a SMS to GOOGL |
| 18:01.39 | scanline | ~kirkpunch TI for only offering the IVC102 in gigantic SOIC packages |
| 18:01.40 | file[laptop] | I think it's US only |
| 18:02.13 | pagefault_ | GOOGL |
| 18:02.14 | pagefault_ | yeah |
| 18:02.18 | pagefault_ | but sometimes US stuff works here |
| 18:05.02 | pagefault_ | my WAP is busted |
| 18:05.15 | file[laptop] | I need to call Rogers and yell when my new phone comes |
| 18:05.21 | file[laptop] | cause I don't have WAP/Internet/Data access |
| 18:05.35 | pagefault_ | hiptop? |
| 18:05.45 | file[laptop] | Pocket PC |
| 18:05.47 | pagefault_ | oh |
| 18:05.54 | pagefault_ | yes crazy |
| 18:06.44 | file[laptop] | but it's got 850MHz and 1900MHz so coverage should be fine and dandy |
| 18:06.49 | pagefault_ | fun |
| 18:06.57 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03evan * r7835 10fyre/src/ElementTooltip.cs: Using one table in ElementTooltip for the pads. |
| 18:07.11 | file[laptop] | and it's unlocked |
| 18:07.16 | file[laptop] | so I can swap SIMs in the US, and all is well |
| 18:07.25 | purple_cow | yay, darth_mall is paying lots of attention in OS |
| 18:07.52 | pagefault_ | sneaky |
| 18:08.13 | scanline | hmm |
| 18:08.14 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03evan * r7836 10fyre/data/element-tooltip.glade: Need to commit the glade file too for the tooltips. Spacing could use some work. |
| 18:08.28 | scanline | it's really tempting to try multiplexing before the preamp stage, using one of these ultra-low-leakage muxes from Maxim |
| 18:08.29 | darth_mall | purple_cow: he's talking about directory structures and symlinks |
| 18:08.31 | pagefault_ | what happens in 1 day |
| 18:08.37 | scanline | but.. even "ultra-low" leakage is still in the range of 20pA or so |
| 18:08.43 | darth_mall | pagefault: lurgy becomes an alcoholic |
| 18:08.46 | purple_cow | darth_mall: cool! |
| 18:08.52 | pagefault_ | wow |
| 18:08.56 | pagefault_ | interesting |
| 18:09.00 | pagefault_ | better hide all your booze |
| 18:09.51 | purple_cow | time to go home |
| 18:10.42 | scanline | hmmm |
| 18:11.39 | scanline | it's so sick how much easier it is these days to stick a tiny microcontroller on something than to design a discrete digital circuit to do the same thing |
| 18:12.05 | ChipX86 | must learn that stuff |
| 18:12.17 | scanline | then you can do my job! |
| 18:12.20 | ChipX86 | yay! |
| 18:13.08 | scanline | this IVC102 design would be freaking awesome if we had fewer photodiodes, or a much larger board |
| 18:13.21 | ChipX86 | yay for cool new improved theme support in vmware's development tree |
| 18:13.24 | scanline | well, not as freaking awesome as that 20-bit direct current-to-digital converter thing |
| 18:13.29 | scanline | theme support? |
| 18:14.01 | ChipX86 | you know the little gradient bars on the summary pages and in the about box? |
| 18:14.15 | ChipX86 | they're now rendered based on the theme. It looks sexy |
| 18:14.26 | scanline | ah, neat |
| 18:14.35 | scanline | must try the linux UI on ws5... |
| 18:14.35 | ChipX86 | it's not necessarily a gradient anymore either |
| 18:14.47 | scanline | but right now my desktop only has winxp on it, and my laptop has nowhere near enough RAM to run vmware comfortably |
| 18:15.00 | ChipX86 | when you start at vmware, you'll be able to get the most up-to-date builds for free :D |
| 18:15.05 | scanline | :) |
| 18:15.15 | ChipX86 | Workstation, ACE, GSX, and ESX |
| 18:15.35 | file[laptop] | even builds that don't work! |
| 18:15.40 | ChipX86 | yep! |
| 18:15.43 | ChipX86 | actually, builds usually work |
| 18:15.44 | scanline | especially builds that don't work! |
| 18:15.50 | ChipX86 | QA and the build team make sure of that |
| 18:15.54 | ChipX86 | that, or they come yell at us |
| 18:17.11 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03evan * r7837 10fyre/ (data/element-tooltip.glade src/ElementTooltip.cs): |
| 18:17.11 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: Alignments are still funny in the tooltips, need to fiddle with label and |
| 18:17.11 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: table properties. But class is over now. |
| 18:31.14 | *** join/#tacobeam laodamas (~cehoward@dsl-205-228.dynamic-dsl.frii.net) |
| 18:34.19 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03evan * r7838 10fyre/src/ElementTooltip.cs: Still can't get the spacing right. But I should be working on documentation for work. |
| 18:41.04 | ToyKeeper | But class is over now. |
| 18:41.11 | ToyKeeper | But I should be working on documentation for work. |
| 18:41.41 | ToyKeeper | Great checking messages. :) |
| 18:41.49 | ToyKeeper | s/checking/checkin/ |
| 18:42.14 | scanline | ooh.. a dual version of the IVC102 |
| 18:44.57 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7839 10fyre/src/ElementTooltip.cs: use Xalign = 0 instead of Justify = Left |
| 18:45.41 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1147 10doc-misc/adcs/software/ (. Makefile conversions.tex main.tex): Start docs for ADCS software. |
| 18:47.29 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1148 10doc-misc/adcs/software/main.tex: Oops... helps to include the fancyhdr package if you're going to use fancy headers |
| 18:47.39 | darth_mall | purple_cow: that's what I was looking for! =D |
| 18:48.14 | darth_mall | looks much better now ^^ |
| 18:49.33 | darth_mall | that's too smart, stop it |
| 18:54.19 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1149 10doc-misc/adcs/software/ (Makefile conversions.tex main.tex): Formatting, table of contents, adjusted Makefile accodringly. |
| 18:54.44 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7840 10fyre/src/ElementTooltip.cs: only include categories that actually have items |
| 18:54.55 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7841 10fyre/TODO: that one's done now |
| 18:55.07 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1150 10doc-misc/adcs/software/: stfu |
| 19:04.34 | ChipX86 | fuck |
| 19:04.39 | ChipX86 | this day is all screwed up |
| 19:05.11 | darth_mall | =\ |
| 19:05.13 | darth_mall | what's up? |
| 19:05.19 | ChipX86 | forgot an important meeting today |
| 19:05.23 | ChipX86 | need to head into work right now |
| 19:05.28 | ChipX86 | and I have to sign for the laptop! |
| 19:05.29 | ChipX86 | ewr |
| 19:05.31 | ChipX86 | LCD |
| 19:05.32 | ChipX86 | damnit |
| 19:05.54 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1151 10doc-misc/adcs/software/ (controller.tex igrf10.tex main.tex overview.tex sgp4.tex): A bit of outlining and files for each section. |
| 19:06.00 | file[laptop] | poor Chip |
| 19:06.11 | darth_mall | ChipX86: you can't leave instructions at the front desk to intercept the delivery guy? |
| 19:06.33 | ChipX86 | bbl |
| 19:07.35 | scanline | holy fuck |
| 19:07.41 | scanline | these op-amps I'm looking at are $30 each |
| 19:07.42 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7842 10fyre/TODO: add a list of plugins to be written |
| 19:11.18 | purple_cow | it's trivial to do it in n^2, but i'm sure there's a way to do it in n |
| 19:11.50 | scanline | why would it be n^2? |
| 19:12.17 | purple_cow | scanline: that would just be a very naive way do to it |
| 19:12.28 | scanline | I'm just wondering what you had in mind |
| 19:13.03 | purple_cow | loop through the pipeline, check any elements that have data at all their inputs. rinse, repeat |
| 19:14.20 | scanline | ah |
| 19:14.37 | purple_cow | ok, hows this sound |
| 19:15.04 | purple_cow | we start with lists of the elements that are classified as inputs (have no input pads) and outputs |
| 19:15.23 | *** join/#tacobeam Cae (~mschneide@Bloc-14.isc.tamu.edu) |
| 19:15.31 | purple_cow | we check all the elements hooked up to the inputs. as we propagate through, we check only the pads connected to the ones we checked on the previous iteration |
| 19:15.42 | purple_cow | every time we check an output element, we remove it from its list |
| 19:15.47 | purple_cow | when that list is empty, we're done |
| 19:17.11 | scanline | haha, wow |
| 19:17.17 | scanline | I just looked up the specs for the op-amps the original design used |
| 19:17.22 | scanline | bias currents around 30 nA |
| 19:17.32 | scanline | whereas we really need something more like 5 pA |
| 19:18.04 | scanline | bwahaha |
| 19:18.11 | scanline | their GBW is atrociously low too |
| 19:18.30 | scanline | I'm not sure I'll end up with a design I'm really happy with, but it will be cake to do better than the original amplifier |
| 19:19.07 | darth_mall | purple_cow: sounds good |
| 19:20.34 | purple_cow | yay for songs about aliens |
| 19:21.50 | purple_cow | once was a body, now it's a home, for you, my little alien |
| 19:21.50 | purple_cow | ohhhh, i'm a happy home |
| 19:23.38 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 19:37.05 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 19:37.12 | purple_cow | do i want to make a fuss over 4 points on my oop hw3? |
| 19:38.30 | scanline | all the coolest op-amps are really power hungry |
| 19:39.57 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1152 10doc-misc/adcs/software/ (main.tex overview.tex): Use endnotes |
| 19:43.23 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7843 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/Input.cs: add the beginnings of settings for the Input element. Right now, this is just a drop-down describing the type |
| 19:45.42 | scanline | hiya probe |
| 19:45.58 | probe | hey, scanline... how are you? It has been a while ^^ |
| 19:46.12 | probe | thanks, file... I'm so hungry.! |
| 19:46.13 | scanline | doing fine. yay for graduating soon! |
| 19:46.25 | darth_mall | hey probe |
| 19:46.28 | darth_mall | long time no see |
| 19:46.40 | probe | Hey, congratulations on landing the job! I know it'll all work out for ya, scanline! |
| 19:46.48 | scanline | thanks :) |
| 19:46.51 | probe | hello, darth_mall, how are you today? |
| 19:47.43 | probe | I certainly want to visit before scanline heads off to California, so sometime relatively soon! |
| 19:48.07 | scanline | probe: I'll be here most of the summer. I start July 25th, and I'm planning on moving during the week between my birthday and then |
| 19:48.39 | probe | Oh, okay. I'll definitely be seeing you at least once.. if not more! |
| 19:49.22 | scanline | you'd better be ;) |
| 19:49.57 | darth_mall | hmm... class soon |
| 19:50.25 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1153 10doc-misc/adcs/software/overview.tex: More general stuff... This section might want a picture. |
| 19:50.51 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03evan * r1154 10doc-misc/adcs/software/: hush |
| 19:54.36 | pagefault_ | ugh |
| 19:54.39 | pagefault_ | I can't stand people who smoke |
| 19:54.42 | pagefault_ | they stink so much |
| 19:59.40 | CIA-5 | autopackage: 03mike * 10autopackage/main/TODO: Add switching to LZMA compression |
| 20:02.59 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7844 10fyre/TODO: add a bit more |
| 20:03.41 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7845 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/Pixmap.cs: get rid of the output here, since this is a terminal element |
| 20:09.09 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7846 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/Pixmap.cs: implement most of Check for this element. still need to figure out what we're going to accept for colors |
| 20:28.06 | purple_cow | ugh |
| 20:28.10 | purple_cow | i suddenly feel all lethargic |
| 20:34.39 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1155 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Move the mechanical documentation for speck from devices to doc-misc |
| 20:54.00 | purple_cow | hmm |
| 20:55.53 | purple_cow | err, hmm |
| 21:03.27 | scanline | ZS notebook? |
| 21:04.31 | purple_cow | scanline: creative just put out a PCMCIA card |
| 21:04.40 | scanline | weird |
| 21:05.01 | purple_cow | bit more powerful than the NX |
| 21:05.12 | purple_cow | (192khz sampling, 104dB rather than 102) |
| 21:05.20 | scanline | ow |
| 21:05.54 | scanline | why do you need a sound card that's approaching the specs on a commercial data acquisition card? |
| 21:06.26 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 21:06.41 | purple_cow | what if i want to produce an sacd? |
| 21:06.51 | scanline | sacd? |
| 21:07.28 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1156 10doc-misc/speck/design-choices.txt: Add a bunch of notes. This includes a handful of designs I rejected (and why), some requirements, and some notes on which op-amp I'm choosing and why. |
| 21:07.33 | purple_cow | it's the new cd audio standard |
| 21:07.39 | purple_cow | 24bit, 192khz |
| 21:07.46 | scanline | that's disgusting |
| 21:08.05 | purple_cow | disgusting maybe, but it's better at capturing recordings |
| 21:08.11 | scanline | hmm.. I seem to have scribbled some transimpedance amplfiier notes on a FreeDFM sticky pad |
| 21:08.40 | purple_cow | even with that much data, it doesn't really sound the same as live |
| 21:09.03 | scanline | I really can't imagine that's the format's fault though... speaker and microphone technology needs to catch up now |
| 21:09.29 | purple_cow | microphone technology is there |
| 21:09.44 | purple_cow | and speakers like wasabi's are good enough |
| 21:10.01 | purple_cow | it's just this silly interaction with overtones that requires unbelievable sampling rates |
| 21:10.11 | scanline | hmm |
| 21:10.13 | scanline | that's silly |
| 21:10.16 | purple_cow | yep |
| 21:10.21 | scanline | and 24-bit? |
| 21:10.56 | scanline | even with 16-bit A/D and D/A, the electrical noise usually overpowers the LSB |
| 21:11.01 | purple_cow | well yeah, 24-bit is kind of silly |
| 21:11.43 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 21:12.13 | purple_cow | hmm, the ZS has the super low latency converters too... |
| 21:12.30 | scanline | heh. that's also silly |
| 21:12.53 | scanline | A/D and D/A latency is totally insignificant compared to how long it takes to get data between the hardware and an application |
| 21:13.14 | scanline | does it say what kind of A/D and D/A architectures they're using? |
| 21:14.16 | scanline | I still can't believe that those difet op-amps are over $30 each |
| 21:14.48 | scanline | Mike was saying he thinks the guy that invented difet op-amps is a CU professor :) |
| 21:20.25 | purple_cow | hmm, i can't find any indication that the ZS notebook is supported at all under linux |
| 21:20.55 | scanline | you like writing drivers, right? |
| 21:21.04 | purple_cow | hah |
| 21:25.32 | Cae | that means yes |
| 21:31.52 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7847 10fyre/src/ (Element.cs Plugins/Basic/Input.cs): don't ShowAll() by default, since some elements may want to have hidden widgets |
| 21:33.13 | *** join/#tacobeam pagefault (~pagefault@HSE-Montreal-ppp135080.qc.sympatico.ca) |
| 21:33.18 | pagefault | bbr |
| 21:33.20 | pagefault | brb |
| 21:33.52 | *** join/#tacobeam pagefault (~pagefault@HSE-Montreal-ppp135080.qc.sympatico.ca) |
| 21:33.54 | pagefault | yay |
| 21:33.55 | pagefault | wireless works |
| 21:34.39 | file[laptop] | working wireless is a good thing |
| 21:35.56 | pagefault | yes |
| 21:36.00 | pagefault | I finally got WPA working properly |
| 21:36.15 | file[laptop] | yay |
| 21:36.39 | pagefault | my wireless should be impossible to get into |
| 21:36.44 | file[laptop] | haha, right |
| 21:36.48 | file[laptop] | a likely story |
| 21:37.00 | pagefault | mac filtering + wpa + tkip |
| 21:37.05 | pagefault | all I need now is VPN |
| 21:38.44 | pagefault | mmm cheese |
| 21:40.53 | file[laptop] | and cheese? |
| 21:41.19 | pagefault | yes |
| 21:41.23 | pagefault | cheese is the key |
| 21:41.35 | file[laptop] | :) excellent |
| 21:42.05 | ToyKeeper | Pah... WPA. |
| 21:42.32 | darth_mall | uhoh... ToyKeeper is here, and his opinion is showing ^^ |
| 21:42.36 | ToyKeeper | :) |
| 21:42.58 | ToyKeeper | I'm silly. I haven't bothered with wireless security. |
| 21:46.27 | darth_mall | hmm... I kinda feel like having pizza for dinner tonight |
| 21:46.30 | darth_mall | haven't had pizza in a while |
| 21:48.40 | ToyKeeper | cheese is the key |
| 21:48.58 | file[laptop] | darth_mall: yay cheese pizza? |
| 21:49.08 | ToyKeeper | Wireless cheese pizza over IP. |
| 21:49.08 | darth_mall | well, I'm wondering if purple_cow and/or scanline are feeling similarly inclined to myself |
| 21:49.30 | file[laptop] | ToyKeeper: exactly |
| 21:49.35 | purple_cow | darth_mall: yes |
| 21:49.44 | ToyKeeper | *Encrypted* wireless cheese pizza, even. |
| 21:49.52 | file[laptop] | yes, we must have our encryption |
| 21:50.08 | ToyKeeper | I hope you remember the login protocol for cheese pizza. |
| 21:50.25 | darth_mall | purple_cow: k, probably place an order around 5:30 or 6, you think? |
| 21:50.26 | file[laptop] | is it based off of... XML? |
| 21:50.39 | file[laptop] | encrypted pizza XML! |
| 21:51.32 | ToyKeeper | I think PML is what you use to initiate a pizza transaction, and spec the requirements. |
| 21:52.06 | *** join/#tacobeam laodamas (~cehoward@dsl-205-228.dynamic-dsl.frii.net) |
| 21:58.17 | file[laptop] | laodamas: pfft work motivation, that's for silly people |
| 22:01.24 | pagefault | veal on a bun |
| 22:01.33 | darth_mall | hmm... I think I finally got this integral to come out |
| 22:01.37 | file[laptop] | pagefault: yay |
| 22:02.03 | pagefault | when does your pocketpc arrive? |
| 22:02.18 | file[laptop] | maybe this week |
| 22:02.25 | file[laptop] | it's coming from Montreal so it should be quick |
| 22:02.33 | pagefault | not if it's UPS! |
| 22:02.38 | file[laptop] | Xpresspost! |
| 22:02.48 | pagefault | ah it should be fast then |
| 22:02.48 | file[laptop] | but meh, who knows - not I |
| 22:05.04 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7848 10fyre/src/Plugins/Basic/Input.cs: add a member for type, hook it up to the gui |
| 22:06.27 | file[laptop] | pagefault: why does thou inquire |
| 22:06.37 | pagefault | just curious |
| 22:06.49 | file[laptop] | you want one, don't you? |
| 22:06.56 | pagefault | yes |
| 22:07.02 | file[laptop] | :) |
| 22:07.08 | pagefault | :) |
| 22:07.15 | pagefault | blah |
| 22:07.17 | file[laptop] | bleh |
| 22:07.28 | pagefault | free unrar doesn't work on this file |
| 22:07.34 | pagefault | I need to get the "official" one |
| 22:07.36 | pagefault | :) |
| 22:22.16 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7849 10fyre/src/ (Element.cs Pipeline.cs Plugins/Basic/Input.cs): restructure serialization a bit, fix a bug on writing attributes and save the type field of the input element |
| 22:26.13 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7850 10fyre/src/Plugins/ (8 files in 2 dirs): clean up plugin implementations a bit |
| 22:28.51 | scanline | hrm |
| 22:32.38 | CIA-5 | spacegrant: 03dowty * r1157 10devices/speck/protel/ (5 files): Yay, an absolutely packed PCB layout for 16 transimpedance amplifiers based on the OPA4137 op-amp |
| 22:58.02 | darth_mall | man it'd be nice if my TA for OS would ever e-mail me back =P |
| 23:00.30 | scanline | ooh |
| 23:00.36 | scanline | a delta-sigma modulator might be perfect for this |
| 23:14.01 | *** join/#tacobeam file[mac] (~file[mac]@mctn1-6079.nb.aliant.net) |
| 23:16.21 | CIA-5 | zsnes: 03pagefault * 10zsnes/src/video/newgfx16.asm: Bring CVS in sync with work dir |
| 23:24.57 | CIA-5 | navi-misc: 03jupiter * r7851 10fyre/src/Element.cs: add a flags field for things like input |
| 23:25.20 | CIA-5 | zsnes: 03pagefault * 10zsnes/src/video/newgfx16.asm: More windowing/subscreen fixes, fixes ToP intro and some other stuff |
| 23:25.39 | purple_cow | bleh, bored |
| 23:25.47 | file[mac] | pagefault: yay productivity |
| 23:26.12 | pagefault | yeah |
| 23:26.56 | *** join/#tacobeam KeyserLaptop (~gazicm@user-0cej5mv.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:27.19 | file[mac] | hail KeyserLaptop |
| 23:28.24 | pagefault | nooo mac |
| 23:28.42 | file[mac] | yes, I'm on my Mac |
| 23:29.50 | pagefault | evil mavc |
| 23:29.52 | pagefault | err mac |
| 23:30.03 | pagefault | just thinking about macs makes me typo |
| 23:30.08 | file[mac] | ooh I just had a really nifty idea for the billing system I'm designing |
| 23:30.22 | pagefault | it will forward money to me? |
| 23:30.34 | file[mac] | besides that! |
| 23:31.10 | darth_mall | hmm... I should order pizza |
| 23:31.22 | file[mac] | excellent idea |
| 23:38.09 | purple_cow | hmm, i should probably do laundry |
| 23:38.40 | darth_mall | hmm... now I have to figure out with this siginfo_t pointer is null... |
| 23:42.56 | darth_mall | so Frank Travis wants my help deciding what should be on TV =P |
| 23:44.34 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/tools/mapedit/ (inc/openGL.h inc/world.h src/openGL.cpp src/world.cpp): bad bad bad tank avatar |
| 23:45.31 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/ (6 files in 4 dirs): conversion to clasic list server system |
| 23:53.12 | CIA-5 | zsnes: 03pagefault * 10zsnes/src/video/newgfx16.asm: Next time test before you put something in CVS, (slap self) |
| 23:55.22 | *** join/#tacobeam laodamas (~cehoward@c-67-166-53-18.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 23:58.10 | scanline | laodamas: you know much about delta-sigma modulators? |