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| 04:29.32 | Gratz474 | Hi, I am looking into orm's again, I was looking into them about a week ago, but right now I am going in between storm or sqlobject |
| 04:30.43 | Gratz474 | sqlobject has database structure creation which is really a killer feature, or does storm not use that for some good reasons ? |
| 04:49.07 | shaunm | Gratz474: there've been discussions about that in the past |
| 04:55.13 | Gratz474 | its like sqlalchemy is the de facto orm no questions asked, where did this come from? |
| 04:55.24 | shaunm | the rationale I remember is that, for sufficiently large applications, doing your schema by hand will yield better results |
| 04:55.47 | shaunm | nonetheless, I (and others) think it's still a mighty hand thing to have, if only for prototyping |
| 04:55.49 | Gratz474 | These situations that people keep brining up how sa is better at doing this or that I mean thats all fine, but they are far and few between |
| 04:56.36 | shaunm | I know some people have done some work on trying to do basic schema management |
| 04:56.42 | shaunm | you might search the mailing list |
| 04:56.55 | shaunm | I have a really basic and naive table creator here: |
| 04:56.59 | shaunm | http://gitorious.org/pulse/mainline/blobs/master/pulse/db.py |
| 04:57.23 | shaunm | look at create_tables (WARNING: the mysql bits don't actually work correctly) |
| 04:57.42 | Gratz474 | hmm i see |
| 04:58.21 | shaunm | as someone who started a project with sqlobject, switched it to django, and then switched it to storm, I can tell you that, despite this one annoyance, storm has been tremendously better for me |
| 04:58.25 | shaunm | your mileage may vary |
| 04:58.54 | shaunm | but once I got past the trivial stuff, sqlobject put up some significant performance roadblocks that were really hard to get around |
| 04:59.20 | mwhudson | storm is a good orm for people who don't want to forget that there's a rdbms under there somewhere |
| 04:59.41 | mwhudson | (i.e. sane people, because if you do forget that you're in for a world of pain imho) |
| 05:00.02 | Gratz474 | shaunm: what made me think twice about sa was that on the mailing list there is tons of stuff about how bad the performance of it is compared to sqlobject |
| 05:00.10 | Gratz474 | sa does alllot more beind the scenes |
| 05:01.07 | Gratz474 | shaunm: and when things usually get tooooo bad i just drop into sql :) |
| 05:01.33 | Gratz474 | sa people really hate sql, i feel an orm is a tool to make it easy not replace |
| 05:02.09 | Gratz474 | but i guess everyone has there own story |
| 05:07.56 | mwhudson | i also get the impression that there is a lot more of sqlachemy than storm |
| 05:08.02 | mwhudson | but i don't know how true that is |
| 05:11.09 | shaunm | sqlalchemy never came into my chain of constant ports to different ORMs, so I can't speak to it |
| 05:11.29 | shaunm | but if people say sqlobject is faster than sqlalchemy, well, that's not encouraging |
| 05:11.58 | Gratz474 | sqlobject is from 2002 and heavily worked on by a team that really cares about it |
| 05:12.26 | Gratz474 | and people needed something new, so alot of frameworks jumped on it |
| 05:12.26 | shaunm | and they do have a vibrant community (or at least did when I was using it) |
| 05:13.14 | Gratz474 | which? |
| 05:13.19 | shaunm | sqlobject |
| 05:13.23 | Gratz474 | I think they both do |
| 05:13.37 | shaunm | sure |
| 05:13.43 | Gratz474 | I mean its like this, I jumped around python frameworks like hop scotch only to figure out that they all do the same thing |
| 05:13.51 | Gratz474 | you ever heard of cherrypy? |
| 05:13.57 | shaunm | yeah |
| 05:14.10 | shaunm | err, maybe |
| 05:14.16 | Gratz474 | That has 3 forms of routing , all the web goodness and its been around the longest yet people still don't like it |
| 05:14.22 | shaunm | damn it, I've heard of too many "py" puns ;-) |
| 05:15.03 | Gratz474 | you have the regex routing the object publishing ( pretty much the inventors of it ) and you have the method dispatcher ( google webapp framework approach ) |
| 05:15.21 | Gratz474 | yet I still see every now and then someone like cherrypy's routing sucks!! |
| 05:15.35 | Gratz474 | yet it has the same routing as the framework they are using |
| 05:19.28 | mwhudson | cherrypy 2 really did suck |
| 05:19.53 | mwhudson | i think 3 is a lot better, but i haven't used it in anger |
| 05:32.31 | jamesh | do you really need anything besides Zope's traversal interfaces for navigation though? |
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| 15:52.07 | Gratz474 | is storm threadsafe? |
| 15:53.09 | Gratz474 | I mean if i use it with a web framework that uses a threaded server |
| 15:55.01 | therve | you need to have a store per thread |
| 15:57.50 | Gratz474 | therve: yea kinda an issue since I have never worked with threads before |
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| 18:19.52 | jkakar | Gratz474: If you use it with Zope3, Twisted or Django you can use the integration components Storm provides. |
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