IRC log for #sc2mapster on 20150404

00:52.23*** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Thunderbi@99-8-167-79.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net)
01:42.20DeadZerglingso I've decided I still hate editing UI shit..... http://ctrlv.in/531340
01:42.59DeadZerglingwould you believe me if I said I worked hours on it looking that bad? :P
03:12.45*** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net)
03:35.04MINIMAN10000Since I just remembered I shall ask
03:35.20MINIMAN10000How do you get the loading screen so you can see everyones loading progress?
04:32.59ArcanePariahUse Melee loading screen
04:34.38BountyTessera anyone?
04:34.40Bountylobby up =P
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11:43.19*** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21)
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12:04.28ZoldenGoa_ I expected more
13:16.34Goa_Zolden haha:D
13:16.53Goa_thats all I can do to make it run without lag even on Iphone 4
13:21.24Zoldencrap
13:21.31ZoldenI thought using it alot
13:21.56Zoldenmaybe I should concentrate on a pc release instead?
13:22.13Zoldeni fucking like environment maps
13:24.38Goa_if you do 2d that shouldnt lag it
13:25.35Goa_though, just do it for pc and later think about dumbing down for mobile.D
13:25.56Goa_high end mobiles are pretty strong these days anyway
13:27.48*** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:16c0:960::4)
13:51.37ZoldenGoa_ it will be 3d td
13:51.54Zoldenso, rather many units on screen to render
13:53.17ZoldenGoa_ there are photoshop battles on reddit, this is my exibit http://i.imgur.com/uGJTF8e.jpg
13:59.04*** join/#sc2mapster Rommper (bc241057@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.36.16.87)
14:00.49*** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:16c0:960::4)
14:15.44*** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:16c0:960::4)
14:17.30ZoldenRommper so, have your unfinished release inspired you to work more on it, or it reduced your enthusiasm?
14:17.53Rommperwill work on it
14:17.55Rommperofc
14:18.37Rommperneed more art+planing options in lobby
14:18.39Zoldenwhat is the mostly pointed thing people want you to change/improve/add?
14:19.12Rommperi will add two mode in the lobby
14:19.30Rommperclassical: the curent way: selection limit, no way point
14:20.02Zoldenlol, what?
14:20.02Rommperand "sc2 ished':no selection limit+way point+maybe adding more queue for buildings
14:20.07Zoldenyou faked selection limit?
14:20.12Rommperofc
14:20.19Rommperjust like sc2bw mod
14:20.22Zoldenfacepalms
14:21.22Rommpergood for ya
14:21.29Zoldengood for all of us
14:22.02Rommperit was part of the game
14:22.11Rommperso a classical remake contain it
14:22.18Rommperand it wasn't just engine limit
14:22.49Zoldenyou died for me as game designer
14:22.55Rommperi read an article where blizz employee talked about it.
14:23.38Rommperas i said it will be optional in the lobby so you don't need to cry
14:24.45Rommperbut then everyone will mass spawn grunts just sayin
14:26.00Rommperthou TwoDie even managed to pull a mass spawn with the selection limit too once
14:26.05Zoldenright, adding annoying artificial limits is a great fix for game balance issues
14:26.45Rommperi didn't add it
14:26.53Rommperit was already in the game
14:27.16Zoldenfacepalms again
14:27.32Rommperand as i said a blizz employee said they intentionaly added selection limit in the original game
14:27.45Zoldenkeeps facepalming
14:27.47Rommperi facepalm on your facepalm
14:28.51Zoldendoesn't even facepalming anymore, just staring at Rommper with a compassionatively-disgusted face
14:30.24Zoldenwell, maybe a game maker must fail 3-5 times to understand, how much impact these little gamplay choices have
14:31.03Rommperit must be hard to click on one button in the lobby
14:32.07ZoldenI heard you said it was a fix for poor gameplay
14:32.51Rommperi said it was intentionaly part of the game as wc1 is more about small squad controlad tactics than who can spawn more shit
14:32.55Rommperlike sc2
14:33.21Rommperif you remember wc3 even has selection limit
14:34.14Rommperbut if i make it optional people will have the choice of FREEDOM
14:34.31Zoldenit must be player's choice, to have a little squad or to have a huge army. If game balanced enough to allow winning in both strategies, its' a good game design. If artificial and annoying limits added, it's a fail
14:34.33Rommperto play like the original game or have their "less annoying" style
14:34.59Rommperi think you mistake me with blizzard entertainment
14:35.09Rommpercause i'm not the one who designed wc1
14:35.10Zoldenone of the alternative for massing one unit strategy fix is to raise cost of a unit based on the amount built, so first one cost 100, 20s one cost 200
14:35.12Zoldenlike that
14:35.39ZoldenRommper I've been mistaken you with a good game designer, not anymore
14:36.17Rommperagain, you shall send a text to Blizz titled:"omg you noobs fix wc1 now, unbalanceffs444!!!!Iii!
14:36.46Zoldeni'm not talking about wc1, i'm talking about your map
14:36.47Rommpercause i'm not the one who designed the game,
14:37.12Zoldenwell, as I said, blindly remaking way is a way to the butt
14:37.56Zoldenevolving the game you remaking towards better game design choices must be the main concern
14:38.55ZoldenI say this because I tried to remake precisely 6 great games, and failed. Then I remade a game with a massive gamedesign rework, almost turned it to the different game, that I thought will be idea, and it didn't fail
14:40.33Zoldenwhen you think and change things, you're gamedesigner and artis and can do magic. When you copy, you copy shit as well
14:40.49Rommperfor original ideas i have my own "chapter" based on wow lore
14:41.21Zoldenalright
14:42.59Rommperwith the remakes my intention was to "port" the original gameplay to a better engine
14:43.33Zoldentell me about dude, I fucking remade 6 old games to a better engine
14:43.58Zoldeni know all what you want, and sharing experience
14:44.34Zoldenwant to spend so much time on something no one cares about? ok, keep copying
14:45.12TomuraI'd agree. You have to look at what features didn't age well.
14:46.54Tomuragreat now I've crashed visual studio's debugger
14:47.29Rommperwell Zolden i'm getting feedback too from ppl since i started working on it
14:47.40Rommperand many ppl asked for the stuff like road, selection limit etc
14:47.51Rommperthere are some who don't want the selection limit
14:48.01Rommperthat's why it will be optional in the lobby
14:48.22Rommperyou have the option you have the choice, its up to you then
14:49.35Zoldenok, see how it work
15:22.32Zoldenanarch hey, u here?
15:30.13anarchZolden:
15:31.00Zoldenanarch fun, I increased the amount 8 -> 12, and it felt like a cheat, they avolve explosively
15:31.16anarchcan i see?
15:31.25Zoldenon graph they rapidly getting stack at time limit
15:31.33Zoldenand realy hardly die
15:31.49Zoldenanarch yea, sec
15:32.00anarchhm..
15:32.33anarchmaybe next its time to make the intensity of the obstacles increase procedurally based on their success in overcoming the round time limit?  to present ever stronger challenges?
15:33.34Zoldenanarch I want to see absolute rate of evolution, it will be distorted if I add this kind of feedback
15:33.49anarchgood point
15:33.56Zoldenwill just decrease the amount of sences for the main tests
15:35.19*** join/#sc2mapster TwoDie (~Player@78-56-27-236.static.zebra.lt)
15:35.22Zoldenanarch sent
15:35.27anarchk, checking now
15:35.39ZoldenI also added a new kind of mutations, that is widely used in natur
15:35.57ZoldenTwoDie hey, how are you doing there?
15:36.39TwoDiechuinia
15:36.46TwoDiecant do shiet :/
15:36.53TwoDieutubing and shit :/
15:37.18Zolden:))
15:37.45ZoldenTwoDie wanna run my evolution on your computer and see how artificial things do better than you?
15:38.11TwoDieim preettty
15:40.28Zoldengimme your email TwoDie
15:40.33Zoldenit will entertain you
15:40.55Zoldenor you want me to record it and post on youtube? is youtube the only channel of communication with you?
15:41.06TwoDie:D
15:41.10TwoDieu can livestream it
15:41.15TwoDieon twitch
15:41.16anarchZolden: can i see a scene screenie of them scencing 12 things?
15:42.02Zoldenanarch look at any clock
15:42.17Zoldennot electronic one, the one with a circle with 12 numbers
15:42.49ZoldenTwoDie I participated in one of reddit's photoshop battles: http://i.imgur.com/uGJTF8e.jpg
15:42.53*** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Thunderbi@99-8-167-79.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net)
15:43.09anarchi guess that makes sense
15:43.19Zoldenmost popular participant made the trank jizzing on her face and her tits
15:43.20TwoDiezolden any karma? :D
15:43.22TwoDiegain
15:43.26Zoldenyea, 220
15:43.31TwoDiedamn
15:43.43TwoDieyeah saw those
15:43.56Zoldenone of my comments gained more than 1000 karma
15:44.17TwoDiesomething about racism or hilter?
15:44.31TwoDiehow often u get downvoted?
15:44.38Zoldenalmost, I compared a kitten whose head was stuck in a can with a redditors stuck in reddit
15:44.48anarchpoor kitten =(
15:44.48TwoDiestill waiting for ur mail
15:44.56Zoldenwell, alot
15:45.11TwoDie:d
15:45.16Zoldenall of my troll racist comments are being massively downvoted
15:45.29Zoldenthe funniest jokes either
15:46.57Zoldenanarch kitten was saved by a man
15:47.37*** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@2a02:8109:140:c9c:69dd:c912:bc12:ed36)
15:47.39Zoldenanarch http://i.imgur.com/8CVVVHM.gifv
15:48.40*** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:16c0:960::4)
15:48.58TwoDieWTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
15:49.39TwoDiewhat all these bubbles mean1?!!?1
15:50.09ZoldenTwoDie circles are organisms, that die if touch a line or a wall
15:50.22Zoldenthey are stupid at start, but mutate
15:50.30Zoldensurvivors buttsex each other
15:50.43Zoldennext generation getting better
15:51.00TwoDie:D
15:51.03TwoDieda
15:51.05Zoldenon the graph you can see a lifetime of the best 20% of population
15:51.07TwoDiebitch is okay
15:51.36anarchthank goodness :)
15:51.48anarchthank goodness for that man :D
15:54.50TwoDielol that izi karma with "Cat."
15:57.13Zoldenyea :)
16:03.12*** join/#sc2mapster Goa (~Goa_@91.83.31.72.pool.invitel.hu)
16:12.14TwoDiehttp://i.imgur.com/OI5QB8o.jpg
16:15.29Zoldenis it LoL in fog?
16:15.51Zoldenold dota in foga?
16:16.03TwoDieits Space Created
16:16.09TwoDieby dota 2 abilities
16:41.17*** join/#sc2mapster IskatuMesk (4645ef99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.69.239.153)
16:41.41IskatuMeskI have posted some resources that may be of use to someone.
16:41.51IskatuMeskNotably, the prototype particles I created early last year. http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/artist-tavern/77125-resource-apex-h-particle-effects/#p1
16:42.23IskatuMeskI also posted the player color protoss glow crap I showed last year as well. http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/artist-tavern/77122-resource-player-color-protoss-glows/
16:43.07IskatuMeskKeep in mind both of those are prototypes and they aren't exactly representative of what could have been done, just what was done in the short time I was working on them.
16:44.31IskatuMeskFor obvious reasons I do not plan to post any of the ports or custom models.
16:44.40IskatuMeskGood day.
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20:56.51Bountypeow
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21:00.01TwoDietratatataatatatatatatatatattaattaatatatatatatata
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21:06.58Zoldentwototototto
21:07.13Zoldentwododododdod
21:10.53TwoDietwwwwtowotowotoowtotwotwotwoo
21:10.54TwoDietootwotwoowtow
21:10.56TwoDieotwotwotwootwoot
21:10.56TwoDiewtw
21:10.57TwoDietowotwotwotwo
21:11.05TwoDieits like
21:11.08TwoDieduduudududuuuduududu
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23:13.37anarchZolden:
23:36.56Zoldenanarch yea?
23:39.02anarchhey
23:39.23anarchhave you set a max limit on the number of generations on your simulation?
23:42.13anarchim no longer on my desktop, but i had leftthe sim running for several hours and noticed the obstacles stopped coming around generation 450ish
23:42.19anarchi lso made an interesting observation
23:42.50anarchin the absense of any obstacles at all, some of the creatures ended up just chilling peacefully in 1 place safely.
23:43.13Zoldenanarch I suspect there's a rare bug in my genome calss
23:43.14anarchothers had developed a habbit of straffing from 1 side of theboard to the other, constantly moving, never stopping
23:43.23ZoldenI need to check everything
23:43.41anarchi just checked, its froze on generation 427
23:43.42anarchif that helps
23:43.42Zoldenyeah, they do move
23:43.51anarch<PROTECTED>
23:43.57ZoldenI think the bug is random
23:44.04anarchthat is the last one that apparently completed
23:44.07anarchah ok
23:44.23Zoldenyes, in my last two experiments they always developed this move here and there strategy
23:44.30Zoldenas it beats the unmoving strategy
23:44.58Zoldenfun, that it's a kind of "state", like they have a memory
23:45.11Zoldenself-sustaining memory area
23:45.19Zoldenand it switches
23:45.31Zoldenthey tocuh a wall and go different direction
23:46.07anarchyes
23:46.35Zoldenmathematically it's possible, that a combination of genes, maybe even 1 gene can create a self-sustaining switcher of 2 states
23:46.42Zoldenbut I didn;t expect it happen
23:46.58ZoldenI thought best strategy is just avoid them, slowly move upwards
23:48.13Zoldenalso, I checked the list of the tasks I prepared, and I see that half of them is too easy
23:48.24Zoldenmaybe most of them
23:48.47Zoldenso, I decided to have 1-2 more experiments, adn then go straight to the shape generation one
23:49.28anarchshape generation will be very interesting also
23:49.47Zoldenit will be simply growing plants
23:49.58Zoldenwith zero information about growing process
23:50.27Zoldenthey'll have sun to consume, also physics will matter, there will be gravity and wind
23:51.08Zoldenbut first, two experiemnts: predator vs rabbits, maybe with some predator vs predator component
23:51.19Zoldenalso, there may be food for both predators and rabbits
23:51.26Zoldenwill be a complex environment
23:51.37Zoldenbut first fix that shitty bug!
23:51.44Zoldenrare bugs are so annoying
23:52.01anarchi wonder what caused it
23:52.26anarchbut it was interesting how it revealed their "idle" state
23:53.03Zoldenwell, some are mutants
23:53.10Zoldenthey are all mutants actually
23:53.15Zoldenmoving could be broken
23:53.26anarchi dont know if its broken
23:53.37Zoldenoh, btw, have you heard about dominant/recessive alleles?
23:53.44anarchi have not
23:54.07Zoldenwell, it's a cool mechanism, that mother nature created
23:54.15Zoldenwe have 2 copies of each gene
23:54.20Zoldenfrom 2 parents
23:54.26Zoldensome may be broken
23:54.36Zoldenbut working copy hides it
23:55.25Zolden1 allele may include all genes that define the moving strategy
23:55.32ZoldenI mean, 1 locus
23:55.41Zolden1 locus includes 2 alleles
23:56.05Zoldenso, working + not working allele gives us a moving organism
23:56.12ZoldenAa -> moving
23:56.23ZoldenAA -> two working alleles, moving too
23:56.34Zoldenaa -> not moving, both alleles are broken
23:57.01ZoldenAa + Aa can give AA, Aa, Aa, aa - with 25% rate
23:57.13Zoldenso, 3 kids will move, one will not
23:57.18Zoldenwith moving parents
23:57.33Zoldenand all this is possible in the model, because I've done it very close to real genetics

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