| 01:24.14 | DeadZergling | soon it will tell if Dustin is happy or sad or bored |
| 01:28.00 | Zolden | or if he high or stoned |
| 02:13.06 | Dustin|Work | blarg |
| 02:13.22 | Dustin|Work | All this talk about Archon mode and im over here like, I made a Team Melee mod a year ago... |
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| 09:52.46 | *** topic/#sc2mapster is http://sc2mapster.com | http://wiki.sc2mapster.com | sc2mapster bnet2 channel | WCS Partnership for eSports g0g0! | We want your broken maps! http://bit.ly/aU9AgC | This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 12:28.36 | anarch | Zolden: |
| 12:41.22 | Zolden | anarch hey |
| 12:42.10 | anarch | xc vhey |
| 12:42.17 | anarch | hey |
| 12:42.29 | anarch | was the modification to speed the simulation up as the creatures population declines? |
| 12:43.04 | Zolden | yea |
| 12:43.25 | Zolden | if < 180, it slowly accelerates till 5x speed |
| 12:44.06 | anarch | they seem to develop noticably quicker, but i guess its buzzing through the rouds more rapidly now |
| 12:44.31 | anarch | in the next iteration, maybe can you please add a little round counter in the corner :D |
| 12:44.58 | Zolden | yea, I keep forgetting aobut, as I have gen counter in unity through debug.log() |
| 12:45.08 | anarch | ah makes sense |
| 12:45.22 | Zolden | I left computer working all night |
| 12:45.44 | Zolden | sad, I onlly had graph space for 1000 geerations |
| 12:46.09 | Zolden | all 1000+ are being written at 1000s place |
| 12:46.17 | Zolden | and there was a big progress |
| 12:46.36 | anarch | does it cap their survival time at 30-60 seconds? |
| 12:46.37 | Zolden | like 3 times bigger |
| 12:46.56 | Zolden | cap timer growing with generations |
| 12:47.09 | anarch | so the graph represents the life span of the generation? |
| 12:47.13 | Zolden | if they reach the cap a few times, you can note the limiting line |
| 12:47.31 | anarch | ah i see |
| 12:48.00 | anarch | you could probably even use that metric as a trigger to intensify the obstacles |
| 12:48.03 | Zolden | graph represents life range of best 33% of the generation |
| 12:48.10 | anarch | once they start surviving throughout the entire round |
| 12:49.00 | anarch | i would be interested in an experiment where 2 creatures have ot somehow combat eachother |
| 12:49.15 | anarch | maybe it would have to be more than 2 |
| 12:49.25 | Zolden | yea |
| 12:50.05 | Zolden | ok, I go fix the senses |
| 12:50.16 | anarch | whats wrong with them |
| 12:50.30 | Zolden | if it work, they'll feel stuff around them much better |
| 12:50.43 | Zolden | the problem is it's performance heavy, how they wrok now |
| 12:50.53 | Zolden | 6 raycasts per creature per fixed update |
| 12:51.01 | Zolden | it limits population size |
| 12:51.34 | Zolden | so, i'll replace it with one overlap circle, and then manually calculate closest points, and write them in 8 senses lines |
| 12:51.48 | Zolden | so, they will feel the obstacles without touching them |
| 12:51.59 | anarch | interesting |
| 12:52.11 | Zolden | it will be very good for their vision, and very good for performance |
| 12:52.57 | Zolden | it will be like some creatures have tree-shaped sensual organs |
| 12:53.44 | Zolden | http://www.infan.ru/img/t/l/labby2012imagelunamoth.jpg |
| 12:53.47 | Zolden | this kind of shit |
| 12:54.02 | Zolden | to feel space instead of just line |
| 12:55.40 | Zolden | or that bitch http://www.duskyswondersite.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/butt-susan-bag.jpg |
| 12:59.21 | Zolden | Goa_ I just noticed, that unity 5 icon has been automatically placed on my desktop right next to sc2 editor icon |
| 12:59.40 | Zolden | I can imagine with what face sc2 editor one staring at unity |
| 13:00.31 | Goa_ | :D |
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| 13:50.36 | TwoDie | . |
| 13:50.40 | TwoDie | hmm |
| 13:50.57 | TwoDie | well then |
| 13:51.50 | Zolden | TwoDie shit in the well |
| 13:52.38 | TwoDie | heh 3ds doesnt work on this machine |
| 13:52.45 | Zolden | why? too weak? |
| 13:53.24 | Zolden | what cpu? |
| 13:54.35 | TwoDie | throwing error |
| 13:54.49 | TwoDie | and no clear soliution and simple too have been found yet |
| 13:56.18 | Zolden | which max version is that |
| 13:57.54 | TwoDie | 2011 |
| 13:58.14 | TwoDie | http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/u/gsearch/results?siteID=123112&catID=18297903&id=&bh_p=&bh_v=&bh_s=&bh_qt=0xc000007b&bh_filter_str=&qt=0xc000007b+3ds |
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| 15:02.17 | Zolden | wow, so many vector math to save some performance |
| 15:25.29 | Goa_ | :D |
| 15:26.15 | Goa_ | publishing all these games are pain |
| 15:26.28 | Zolden | yes, all those shitty screens ;/ |
| 15:28.02 | Zolden | anarch look, now they know what's closest point of the nearby obstacles (red lines) http://i.imgur.com/kmF4Fet.png |
| 15:29.03 | Zolden | i just have to project those points to the new senses |
| 15:36.59 | anarch | that is super awesome |
| 15:37.50 | anarch | would you consider sending me a copy of your project so i could do some experimentation? if not i understand :) |
| 15:38.34 | Zolden | hmm... rather not, make your own! |
| 15:39.08 | anarch | ok :) |
| 15:39.11 | Zolden | not because I want to keep my secrets, I'll publish it when I'm done |
| 15:39.24 | Zolden | just want it to be perfect when it's public |
| 15:39.27 | anarch | yea i understand. i would probably be the same way |
| 15:42.22 | Zolden | I hope you also understand, that with unity you have the power you never had before, and it would be much easier to create a custom evolutionary experiment than those you created earlier |
| 15:42.44 | anarch | yes, this is something i have been realizing over the past 2 or 3 days |
| 15:42.58 | anarch | so much potential |
| 15:43.33 | anarch | im going to attempt something using these concept |
| 15:43.39 | anarch | not an exact clone of your experiment |
| 15:43.47 | anarch | but it will use the same ideas :p |
| 15:44.11 | Zolden | unity should be spread from helicopters over poor black ghettos, so black kids would spend their time coding instead of robbing people and dealing crack |
| 15:44.36 | Zolden | oh, glad you will make one, i'd like to see how it work for you |
| 15:44.36 | anarch | lol |
| 15:54.37 | Goa_ | btw Zolden you can do multiplayer cross platform game with google play services.D |
| 15:55.32 | Zolden | great, si there sdk for it? |
| 15:57.31 | Goa_ | yeah |
| 15:58.06 | Zolden | great |
| 15:58.10 | Goa_ | also found this nice tutorial for it, which also explains IOS part: http://www.raywenderlich.com/86040/creating-cross-platform-multiplayer-game-unity-part-1 |
| 15:58.45 | Zolden | I"d just use it for people to exchange their genomes, when I create a 3d ecosystem environment of evolution |
| 15:59.44 | Zolden | ok, i'll check it a few months later, when I may be closer to implementing multiplayer |
| 15:59.51 | Goa_ | And now starts the most hateful part of making apps, simulating dirty mac on my pc so I could publish for ios |
| 15:59.54 | Goa_ | I hate you apple |
| 16:00.27 | anarch | zolden did you do everything using UI components? even the obstacles and creatures? |
| 16:01.05 | Zolden | creatures are sprites, obstacles are lineRenderer |
| 16:01.23 | Zolden | circle collider and edge collider respectively |
| 16:01.38 | anarch | i see |
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| 16:50.04 | Zolden | Goa_ http://i.imgur.com/IFXIguM.jpg |
| 16:53.33 | Goa_ | :D |
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| 17:38.30 | anarch | hey zolden, if the enzymes are holding a number from 0 - 1, how are you storing the information about movement direction and magnitude? |
| 17:40.30 | Zolden | anarch as you want. those [0, 1] values can represent anything, you just code it into enimes range, and decode back |
| 17:40.46 | anarch | im experimenting with something like |
| 17:41.17 | anarch | enz[0] is x, enz[y] is y, enz[2] is magnitude, all of which multiply by the max value of that field |
| 17:41.43 | Zolden | for example, if organism's velocity is a sum of 4 vectors, like speed * output[0] * new Vector2(-1, 0) |
| 17:42.23 | Zolden | yea, you can try that |
| 17:42.34 | anarch | its not going to work because i forgot it doesnt represent negatives |
| 17:42.45 | Zolden | you can make them be negative |
| 17:42.52 | Zolden | [-1, 1] why not |
| 17:43.00 | anarch | hm |
| 17:43.04 | anarch | true |
| 17:43.21 | Zolden | i wanted to be as cloase to cell chemistry as I can, and there's no negative concentrations |
| 17:44.22 | Zolden | but maybe allowing them to be negative can make the whole thing simplier without losing complexity |
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| 18:27.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Casper_ (5c504885@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.80.72.133) |
| 18:29.07 | Casper_ | is there a way with data to make an ability deal damage based on the caster maximum life? |
| 18:30.27 | Zolden | check validators |
| 18:30.42 | Zolden | maybe we can use max life and compare it with a constant |
| 18:31.25 | Zolden | also, it's not ability, who deals damage, it's effects |
| 18:32.11 | Casper_ | ye ik, but how do i set the effect to have the dmg based on the maximum life? as i know how to check it with validators |
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| 18:33.50 | Zolden | for example, have a set of effects, each one to have a combine validator of 2 validator with AND between them. Those two validators would be something like hpMax > 100 and hpMax <= 150, next pair is >150 and <= 200 |
| 18:33.52 | Zolden | and so on |
| 18:34.12 | Zolden | vomits after being forced to remember how shit works in editor |
| 18:34.28 | Casper_ | :D |
| 18:35.23 | Casper_ | hmm cant rlly use this as life for the unit is from 500 till 20000... |
| 18:37.21 | Zolden | you can use triggers, but they are laggy, they can deal damage 0.1 - 1 second after data would |
| 18:37.34 | Zolden | so u fucked |
| 18:37.43 | Zolden | as usual, editor fucks mapmakers' ideas |
| 18:39.34 | Goa_ | arghhhhhs |
| 18:39.40 | Goa_ | fuck you google and apple |
| 18:41.49 | Zolden | lol, what? |
| 18:42.12 | Goa_ | ohh you dirty google |
| 18:42.55 | Zolden | you actually have to fuckyou only google, becasue if it wouldn't be so monopolist, android would evolve much faster, and appl would have to evolve faster and be nicer too |
| 18:43.09 | Goa_ | I wanted to download their old sdk as the new one doesnt seem to work, but I couldnt find it, though I found that changing the version number in the download link still works:D |
| 18:43.41 | Zolden | good, why complicate shit |
| 18:44.21 | Goa_ | I am struggling with this xcode error since about 2 hours |
| 18:44.24 | Goa_ | so nice.... |
| 18:45.26 | Zolden | Goa_ yea, fuck better, cause if any of my games will do good at android, you'll be my apple publisher |
| 18:46.09 | Goa_ | I already hate you:D |
| 18:50.35 | Zolden | but that may bring you billions! |
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| 18:55.38 | Goa | yay, my pc crashed |
| 18:55.54 | Goa | it couldnt take my suffering any longer:D |
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| 19:08.24 | Zolden | anarch look, how they feel the obstacles now http://i.imgur.com/QRonqmV.png |
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| 19:10.23 | Zolden | now they are aware of everything that is going on around them, no blind spots |
| 19:10.43 | Zolden | let's see how much faster it works than spamming raycasts |
| 19:14.04 | Zolden | twice faster |
| 19:14.06 | Zolden | nice |
| 19:14.26 | Zolden | even with my unoptimized code |
| 19:14.51 | Goa_ | FUUUUUUUCK FUUUUUUUUUUUCK FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK |
| 19:15.03 | anarch | so they are detecting all obstacles within a radius of the creature? |
| 19:15.32 | Goa_ | All the trouble were caused cause I fucking extracted the fucking sdk-s from zips on my windows and not in my simulated mac |
| 19:15.41 | Zolden | anarch they have a vision radius. Every obstacle within that radius affects 2 of 8 sensors |
| 19:15.45 | Goa_ | Fuck you apple big time |
| 19:16.06 | Zolden | Goa_ lol |
| 19:16.12 | Zolden | apple fucked you good |
| 19:16.12 | anarch | so they can see up to 4 obstacles at a time? |
| 19:16.52 | Zolden | anarch they can see as much as present, each sensor has the strongest signal from nearby obstacles |
| 19:21.37 | Zolden | yea, works very fast, I can raise time multiplier when <300 |
| 19:21.48 | Zolden | population of 500 work smooth on my weak desktop |
| 19:22.21 | anarch | impressive wizardry you pulled off there. |
| 19:22.39 | anarch | how does it work again? |
| 19:23.28 | Zolden | it used to do 6 raycasts, now it casts 1 OverlapCircleAll, which returns all colliders in a circle |
| 19:24.01 | Zolden | for each collider i find the neares poin, and project it to 2 of 8 sensors, and if the projected value is stronger than the sensor has, it gets the value |
| 19:24.06 | anarch | does it still need to use a raycast to detect distance or can you process the hit.points? |
| 19:24.42 | anarch | does it send it to 2 sensors for x and y? |
| 19:24.45 | anarch | 1 for each? |
| 19:24.51 | anarch | so 8 enzymes represents 4 points? |
| 19:25.01 | Zolden | I have a collider, it's a line, so I do some vectors calculations to determine neares point on that line to the organism |
| 19:25.24 | Zolden | each sensor is a direction, and it represents distance to the enemy along that direction |
| 19:25.51 | Zolden | look at the image http://i.imgur.com/QRonqmV.png |
| 19:26.26 | Zolden | oh, and the nicest thing is that they still able to avolve with this setup |
| 19:27.00 | DeadZergling | have mexican obstacles yet Zolden ? |
| 19:27.19 | Zolden | I may add if they show me good progress |
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| 19:49.04 | blackcud | hi |
| 19:49.09 | blackcud | how do I get rid of this: |
| 19:49.09 | blackcud | CActorShield[ProtossShieldFull] Could not find e_attachShield or a dynamic shield attach on unit [ ecc 13] CActorUnit[Predator2] |
| 19:49.14 | blackcud | or is it not a problem? |
| 19:49.45 | anarch | no idea |
| 19:50.57 | blackcud | well I guess my predator unit has no shield attachment points which is what causes this error |
| 19:51.34 | blackcud | I just wonder if this is a performance hog if my melee tank unit throws a crapload of actor errors as long as it takes shield damage |
| 19:51.38 | blackcud | which will be a lot of times |
| 19:53.35 | Zolden | blackcud u can fix it |
| 19:53.57 | blackcud | zolden, enlighten me master |
| 19:54.22 | Zolden | go to model, go to attachments, and add any attachment point as a shield |
| 19:54.36 | blackcud | err |
| 19:54.49 | blackcud | like in the dada models tab? |
| 19:54.53 | Zolden | yea |
| 19:54.56 | blackcud | basic attachment: attachment properties? |
| 19:55.21 | Zolden | don't remember, something with "attachment" in the field's name |
| 19:55.41 | Zolden | use center attachemnt point, and set it as shield |
| 19:55.50 | Zolden | I don't remember how exactly to do it, jsut try things |
| 19:55.55 | Zolden | u'll find it easy |
| 19:56.23 | blackcud | ok I ll check |
| 19:56.33 | blackcud | does throwing lots of actor errors cause performance problems? |
| 19:57.46 | Zolden | it's not about performance, just make everything right, fix each error |
| 19:58.41 | blackcud | I m trying. just a theoretical question |
| 19:58.59 | blackcud | my maps tend to be crowded and oversized so I am trying to learn as much as possible about performance |
| 19:59.50 | Zolden | it consumes some performance, dunno how much |
| 20:00.07 | blackcud | hm cant seem to fix it |
| 20:00.17 | blackcud | guess I ll need to postpone that one |
| 20:00.30 | Zolden | open colossus model |
| 20:00.47 | Zolden | check its attachment related fields |
| 20:01.03 | Zolden | there was something about additional target volumes on its body |
| 20:01.10 | Zolden | do the same, but with shields on your model |
| 20:01.25 | blackcud | yes it has target 02-05 |
| 20:06.22 | blackcud | hm. cant get it to work :/ |
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| 20:11.25 | Zolden | ok, ask on forum for exact solulution |
| 20:11.28 | Zolden | it's easy |
| 20:11.34 | Zolden | maybe set radius > 0 |
| 20:11.39 | Zolden | is there radius field |
| 20:29.33 | Ashamed | AWW RADIUS |
| 20:34.29 | Ashamed | erg |
| 20:34.34 | Ashamed | i hate trying to help people that can't help themselves |
| 20:35.13 | Ashamed | someone asked me to help them with scripting wanted to install a few programs apperntly automaticly... So i asked her to come up with a list... This was her answer -- I don't have a list. I just want to make a basic script... |
| 20:35.23 | Ashamed | Like how the fuck am I suppose to help you with that information |
| 20:38.48 | Goa_ | ehh |
| 20:38.48 | DeadZergling | maybe just wants a demo script, and doesn't want to reveal the programs? |
| 20:39.21 | Goa_ | why the hack iTunes asks that I added new encryption to my game when I update it? |
| 20:39.28 | Ashamed | well then get me a list of other programs |
| 20:39.30 | Ashamed | lol |
| 20:39.42 | Ashamed | the problem with that is creating custom scripts to auto install programs is hard |
| 20:39.50 | Ashamed | and normally tailored for the install you are making |
| 20:40.08 | Ashamed | unless the dev packaged it as a package and not an exe... There is no super easy way to do this -.- |
| 20:40.18 | Ashamed | so an example script installing something else may not help at all lol |
| 21:19.12 | Ashamed | w00t first after hours salary work!! |
| 21:19.16 | Ashamed | I love working without payz |
| 21:26.00 | Zolden | commie! |
| 21:34.38 | DeadZergling | I'm confused Ashamed , I thought the idea of salary was to get your work done faster on purpose so you can leave early? |
| 21:36.35 | Ashamed | and i do deadzergling |
| 21:36.40 | Ashamed | but when you are a systems engineer |
| 21:36.45 | Ashamed | after hour work is a must too |
| 21:36.55 | Ashamed | unfortuantly systems need to stay up durring the day :( |
| 21:37.21 | Ashamed | but yes I never have anyone bother me about my schedule ha |
| 21:37.36 | Zolden | http://imgur.com/a/H8NAS |
| 21:38.21 | Ashamed | lol |
| 21:38.23 | Ashamed | sponge cake |
| 21:38.42 | Dustin|Work | That's fuckedu p |
| 21:38.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo` (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 21:39.54 | DeadZergling | how boring, should have used regular cake, and just used toothpaste frosting instead |
| 21:41.22 | DeadZergling | make sure he gets a really big bite |
| 21:41.54 | DeadZergling | another fun one is to fill a coke bottle with sprite + soy sauce |
| 21:42.01 | DeadZergling | dare them to drink it all in a minute for 20 $ |
| 21:42.19 | Ashamed | deadzerg the toothepaste one would be good ha |
| 21:42.45 | Zolden | lol |
| 21:43.00 | Zolden | u're DeadlyZergling |
| 21:48.33 | Zolden | lol, reddit is so funny. This is from front page. Guess, waht was the first most popular comment http://i.imgur.com/dWarYoP.jpg |
| 21:49.42 | DeadZergling | does it have to do with nipples? |
| 21:53.02 | DeadZergling | if I had to guess, it'd be something like "Oh my, it sure is Nippley out in Russia!" |
| 21:53.16 | anarch | arg |
| 21:54.39 | Zolden | DeadZergling you're warm |
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| 21:55.12 | Zolden | ok, the answer is: "She's winning the Cold War." |
| 22:00.22 | DeadZergling | amusing way of putting it, as long as you don't think about it much |
| 22:00.55 | DeadZergling | any updates to circle fuck 2015? |
| 22:01.02 | DeadZergling | or should i say, circle jerk |
| 22:01.16 | Zolden | gay circle maybe |
| 22:01.25 | Zolden | yes, there are massive updates |
| 22:01.44 | Zolden | i see they learn simple moves slower now, as they have improved sneses |
| 22:07.05 | Zolden | oh, now I see, I made the senses wrong, need to fix |
| 22:19.39 | Vailreth | hello |
| 22:19.51 | DeadZergling | hello Vailreth |
| 22:20.07 | Vailreth | hello deceased minor zerg unit |
| 22:20.16 | Vailreth | heh... |
| 22:20.35 | anarch | would you like to share some insight on how you managed to get the closest point of the linesegment from creatures position and the midpoint of the line segment? |
| 22:20.41 | Vailreth | with LOTV coming out as a stand alone i wonder if i should even bother coming back to mod |
| 22:21.55 | DeadZergling | can anyone explain to me how looking for pictures of a rock pulls THIS up? http://www.hussystore.com/monokini-with-keyhole-and-jeweled-antique-o-ring/ |
| 22:22.37 | Vailreth | no idea |
| 22:23.05 | DeadZergling | LoTV as a stand alone? seems Blizzard is trying to milk money out of this |
| 22:23.31 | DeadZergling | they will need to be thanked for splintering the already pathetic SC2 playerbase |
| 22:23.44 | Vailreth | well it seems the beta is a v64bit client |
| 22:24.48 | Zolden | anarch yea, i's easy, but i'm changing the approach |
| 22:25.01 | anarch | oh yea? |
| 22:25.13 | anarch | whats the plan? |
| 22:25.23 | Zolden | anarch will find intersection points between sensors and founf colliders |
| 22:25.55 | Zolden | but first need to learn some vector calculations |
| 22:26.32 | DeadZergling | thanks for bringing that to my attention, Vailreth |
| 22:26.36 | Zolden | to devise from understanding instead of using existing forumlas |
| 22:26.44 | DeadZergling | I should probably just release my silly RPG while a playerbase still exists to play it |
| 22:27.20 | Zolden | DeadZergling and then? |
| 22:27.22 | Vailreth | i suppose |
| 22:27.38 | DeadZergling | have to decide on a new modding platform to learn |
| 22:27.44 | anarch | unity? |
| 22:27.57 | DeadZergling | could be unity, could be unreal engine, could be something else |
| 22:28.02 | DeadZergling | I'd want to make an informed decision |
| 22:28.29 | Vailreth | i have unreal engine four just tro try it sense its freeish |
| 22:28.38 | Vailreth | since* |
| 22:30.04 | anarch | how do you like it? |
| 22:30.26 | Vailreth | its been ok sofar i have dont much more that read and watch some tutorials . |
| 22:30.52 | Vailreth | how ever i am slowly working on a game concept to start building in it |
| 22:31.03 | anarch | what type of game? |
| 22:31.43 | Zolden | anarch http://i.imgur.com/UKPBFup.png |
| 22:31.52 | Zolden | dunno how will you read and understand this |
| 22:31.58 | Vailreth | free to play game were players play a Brawler to earn coins to use in Gashapon style vending machines |
| 22:32.07 | Zolden | it's better to start from math basis, then create your formulas |
| 22:32.16 | Vailreth | where in the collect trade and battle with the mini figures they can get |
| 22:32.41 | Vailreth | where in they* |
| 22:33.23 | ArcanePariah | Is there really any modding left? Seems like SC2 is the only one. Rest are just full on game engines, buy/code everything. |
| 22:33.53 | Vailreth | yeah it really does seem like SC2 was the Last Great Bastion of Modding |
| 22:34.05 | Vailreth | negelected to death by Blizzard however |
| 22:34.23 | Zolden | i never used it for modding, jsut created a few completely original games |
| 22:34.32 | Zolden | modding for retards |
| 22:35.03 | ArcanePariah | Ehh, modding is good for hobby stuff, for fun. If I wanted to full on program, games is the last place to do it. |
| 22:35.12 | Vailreth | yeah |
| 22:35.20 | ArcanePariah | Might as well brush up on finance and go work for wall st. |
| 22:35.55 | ArcanePariah | That or go work for engineering or oil firms |
| 22:36.07 | Zolden | it's about money, not about games |
| 22:36.26 | Zolden | if we talk about games, modding suck, while programming games rock |
| 22:36.33 | Vailreth | no work in oil right now, at least here |
| 22:36.37 | ArcanePariah | Ermm... no, programming games sucks |
| 22:36.51 | ArcanePariah | Work your ass off for a vicious subjective crowd who doesn't want to pay. |
| 22:37.04 | Tomura | if you are a programmer/coder programming games ist fun |
| 22:37.04 | ArcanePariah | Work for wall st. and they got hard and fast results they want and pay reallly really well |
| 22:37.17 | ArcanePariah | ist = is and is not? :P |
| 22:37.22 | Tomura | is |
| 22:37.35 | Tomura | sorry my German is coming through |
| 22:37.40 | ArcanePariah | Can be, because at least the problem domain is vast. |
| 22:37.45 | ArcanePariah | Plenty to do. |
| 22:37.48 | Zolden | ArcanePariah programming games is suck when one of these conditions is true: person suck at programming, person suck at game design |
| 22:38.29 | ArcanePariah | The actual coding can be a joy, the industry around it makes it not so much. Simple fact is that most people don't want to pay, thus your pay WILL suck. |
| 22:38.45 | ArcanePariah | Game programmers are some of the worst paid. |
| 22:39.03 | ArcanePariah | Not rock bottom, but definetly below the median or average. |
| 22:39.17 | Zolden | we are not talking about money here, remember, it's about games and ways to create them if one wants to |
| 22:39.23 | Zolden | call of soul, not stomach |
| 22:39.45 | Tomura | BTW programming still works well with Unity/UnrealEngine as a hobby |
| 22:39.51 | Tomura | as long as you are ok with programmer art |
| 22:40.03 | Vailreth | you feed the soul with a hobby, you feed the stomach with a job |
| 22:40.09 | ArcanePariah | ^ |
| 22:40.13 | Zolden | yea, unity and UE reduced coding time alot |
| 22:41.31 | ArcanePariah | Also, and I'm not sure the exact cause of this, I think it is many factors, but games... somehow have the best code, and some of the worst code ever written. |
| 22:41.52 | ArcanePariah | Some stuff is just brilliant, but on average... ugggh... |
| 22:42.02 | Zolden | Vailreth it's a curse of the modern world, when people feed stomach with a job their soul doesn't care about |
| 22:42.50 | DeadZergling | code not being what you would do doesn't make it the worst code ever written, ArcanePariah :) |
| 22:43.03 | ArcanePariah | Also zolden, because of the cheapness of the videogame world, video games end up getting the lower end of coders. |
| 22:43.26 | ArcanePariah | Very rare to have the intersection of game passion and good at coding. Usually people have one or the other. |
| 22:43.54 | ArcanePariah | Former is good for work, but quality not so much. Latter helps with quality, but they tend to go get paid way better for the same effort elsewhere. |
| 22:44.26 | ArcanePariah | And sadly, the good coders get saddled fixing the bad coders mistakes. |
| 22:44.42 | ArcanePariah | I'm sure everyone here has stories of having to fix bad code and the horrors of it. |
| 22:45.00 | Zolden | isn't game industry growing hard last years? |
| 22:45.09 | ArcanePariah | Entire tech world is growing |
| 22:45.10 | Zolden | more and more people are being involved in gaming |
| 22:45.17 | Zolden | it may change how game coders being paid |
| 22:45.21 | Vailreth | no i am one of the bad coders who write the code that needs fixing... but most of the time its just spelling errors and syntax issues |
| 22:45.29 | ArcanePariah | SOmewhat, more amateurs, some decent. |
| 22:45.37 | ArcanePariah | But top coders always end up at the same places |
| 22:45.43 | DeadZergling | sure do ArcanePariah , every time I revisit old code I did a year or more ago |
| 22:45.55 | ArcanePariah | Software houses (Adobe, MS, etc.) Finance, Engineering or Web. |
| 22:46.08 | ArcanePariah | Since because those places pay, and pay through the roof |
| 22:46.17 | ArcanePariah | Consulting as well, that pays insanely well |
| 22:46.22 | anarch | Zolden: i think i need to learn a lot more about vector math before this makes any bit of sense |
| 22:46.26 | Zolden | well, it's great, but it's all a world of being an employee, working for someone, it's not inspiring at all |
| 22:46.42 | DeadZergling | is a couple weeks of calc 3 anarch, lol |
| 22:46.47 | Zolden | anarch true |
| 22:46.48 | ArcanePariah | Well... that's the thing, work as an employee and retire by 40 is VERY tempting for some. |
| 22:46.59 | ArcanePariah | And with some places salaries, that's a reality |
| 22:47.12 | anarch | time to start studying i suppose :) |
| 22:47.35 | Zolden | anarch vector math is one of the columns game world is built on |
| 22:47.40 | ArcanePariah | ehhehe, Vector math, Dot Products, Cross Products, Matrix operations |
| 22:47.44 | Zolden | learna it by 100% |
| 22:47.48 | anarch | i will :D |
| 22:47.53 | DeadZergling | vector math isn't even that hard, I just don't think in vectors |
| 22:47.55 | ArcanePariah | ^, and in general, learn matricies |
| 22:48.03 | ArcanePariah | matricies are used... everywhere. |
| 22:48.05 | Vailreth | i will say this i am looking forward to the LOTV editor.... |
| 22:48.07 | Tomura | yup |
| 22:48.16 | anarch | i already have lots of experience with matricies from non-game programming stuff |
| 22:48.21 | ArcanePariah | All of graphics is based on matrix operations |
| 22:48.29 | DeadZergling | why Vailreth , did they make the data editor a whole new kind of terrible? |
| 22:48.30 | ArcanePariah | Rotate/Translate/Frustrum are just matrix stuff |
| 22:48.50 | anarch | that stuff is easy enough |
| 22:49.04 | ArcanePariah | And vectors are just a subset of matricies, since a vector is a one column matrix |
| 22:49.06 | Zolden | DeadZergling you can think in any images you like, but when you need to code your thoughs, you may need to come through vectors stage |
| 22:49.22 | ArcanePariah | Or 1 row, depending on what you are doing :D |
| 22:49.24 | anarch | i see |
| 22:49.26 | Vailreth | no but it should be 64bit as well and i think they will bring a performance boost.... as well as i just want to play with a new toy |
| 22:49.32 | DeadZergling | you aren't understanding, Zolden |
| 22:49.41 | DeadZergling | I know how to do the math fine, I just don't think in vectors |
| 22:50.08 | Zolden | if you don't think in vectors, you think in pink ponies maybe? |
| 22:50.11 | DeadZergling | just like I understand your rubbish metrics system, but I will never think in it |
| 22:50.32 | DeadZergling | Metrics, measuring for people who suck at conversions! |
| 22:51.20 | Zolden | ArcanePariah can matrixes calculate if 2 2d vectors intersect? |
| 22:51.58 | DeadZergling | why wouldn't they be able to, Zolden ? |
| 22:53.30 | DeadZergling | like seriously dude, you sure you even vector/math ? |
| 22:53.56 | Tomura | ^^ |
| 22:54.02 | ArcanePariah | Zolden, sure, why not? I may be forgetting what the equation is for determining intersection, but almost certainly can be represented as a system of equations and thus a matrix. |
| 22:55.22 | Zolden | ok, i just learn fucking vectors more |
| 22:56.02 | Tomura | if you are a pure gameplay programmer vectors are enough |
| 22:56.42 | Tomura | matrices can be very handy though. |
| 22:56.50 | Zolden | there's a way to see if vectors intersect with cross and dot |
| 22:57.20 | ArcanePariah | Ok, after reading, yes, 2 vectors can be parametrizes and solved as a systme of equations. So you just plug the 2 vectors in, and do RREF on the matrix |
| 22:58.22 | Zolden | 1 vector is 4 numbers: the point it starts at, and the vector |
| 22:58.28 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 22:58.38 | Zolden | so, i kinda have two 2x2 matrices, right? |
| 22:58.46 | ArcanePariah | Ermm no |
| 22:58.58 | DeadZergling | this is pretty funny |
| 23:00.00 | Zolden | ok, i'll jsut keep learning the meaning of cross and dot, and then i'll math waht i want |
| 23:00.25 | ArcanePariah | Given a vector that starts at point P, with direction D and t is the parameter, you have v = P + t * D |
| 23:00.40 | DeadZergling | in Soviet Russia, 2 equations with 2 variables is 2 2x2 matrices! |
| 23:01.28 | Zolden | wtf is t? |
| 23:01.43 | ArcanePariah | So you can have 2 vectors of the form |
| 23:01.43 | ArcanePariah | v1 = P1 + t1 *D1 |
| 23:01.43 | ArcanePariah | v2 = P2 + t2 *D2 |
| 23:01.43 | ArcanePariah | v1, and v2 are functions of t, so we want to solve when v1 = v2 |
| 23:02.30 | ArcanePariah | ANd yes, you can sort of use the dot product to help solve this I believe |
| 23:03.09 | Zolden | first i want to understand what dot means in teamrs of real world geometry |
| 23:03.14 | DeadZergling | yea, my Math teacher sort of made it a requirement to know this sort of shit to pass |
| 23:03.26 | DeadZergling | the vectors test was rather long for a 50 min time period |
| 23:03.52 | DeadZergling | it was less knowing shit and more a race of math, lol |
| 23:05.11 | Zolden | well, math based on remembering can be fast |
| 23:05.25 | Zolden | math based on understanding can be fast too, with lots ofpractice |
| 23:05.54 | Zolden | but math based on remembering may suck on complex tasks, no matter how time is given |
| 23:06.03 | ArcanePariah | http://stackoverflow.com/a/565282 |
| 23:06.10 | ArcanePariah | Here is your answer with cross product |
| 23:06.44 | Zolden | ArcanePariah thanks, i'll go learn |
| 23:06.48 | DeadZergling | I'll remember vectors if I end up needing them later, I didn't find them all that fun |
| 23:07.10 | DeadZergling | I found parametric/polar equations and infinite series/sums to be much more interesting |
| 23:07.30 | Zolden | ArcanePariah and now I udnerstoood the geometrical sense of your t parameter |
| 23:08.08 | Zolden | DeadZergling sc2 doesn't require much vectors, I used them maybe a cople of times, when was doing autoformations |
| 23:08.14 | ArcanePariah | Funny thing DeadZergling, vectors are done as parametric equations |
| 23:08.35 | DeadZergling | aye, just don't find them that interesting |
| 23:09.37 | DeadZergling | here is a new way to write equations, discuss, enjoy! |
| 23:09.41 | DeadZergling | that's how I feel about vectors, lol |
| 23:49.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 23:53.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster MINIMAN10000 (~MINIMAN10@c-71-227-128-41.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
