| 00:08.08 | Zolden | so much evolution is going on on my computers |
| 00:47.24 | Bounty | peow |
| 01:03.21 | DeadZergling | so your KS funded yet Bounty ? |
| 01:03.35 | Bounty | Of course not >.< |
| 01:05.04 | DeadZergling | probably help if you had one going huh? |
| 01:06.00 | Bounty | It'll happen soon. |
| 01:13.55 | Bounty | I've learned that talking about it to much demotivates me from actually doing it DeadZergling lol |
| 01:14.05 | Bounty | setting dates etc |
| 01:21.03 | DeadZergling | I see, been fairly demotivating day for me as well |
| 01:23.47 | Bounty | Why is that DeadZergling? |
| 01:24.05 | draktok | I got demotivated when I ported my game from the ptr to live and it doesn't work right ... random bugs :D |
| 01:24.15 | DeadZergling | oh, just the general realization that I've led a life of crap, all my mods are crap |
| 01:24.24 | DeadZergling | and anything else I do will likely be crap |
| 01:25.15 | Bounty | That will pass with time DeadZergling, been there lol |
| 01:25.38 | Zolden | DeadZergling unless you start Unity! |
| 01:25.47 | Zolden | pew pew pew |
| 01:25.49 | Zolden | boom |
| 01:25.50 | DeadZergling | just be unified crap |
| 01:25.51 | Zolden | Unity! |
| 01:26.07 | draktok | hahaha |
| 01:26.09 | Zolden | you will think thiss until you actually try |
| 01:26.56 | Bounty | If hes miserable with the games he producing on the arcade it will only transfer over to unity |
| 01:27.12 | Zolden | he did fun games |
| 01:27.22 | Zolden | they just didn't fit well to bnet latency |
| 01:27.24 | Bounty | yeah but he doesn't feel that way lol |
| 01:27.48 | Zolden | great artists are depressed about their masterpieces alot |
| 01:28.00 | Zolden | it's normal to have crysises |
| 01:28.02 | Bounty | I suppose. |
| 01:28.11 | Zolden | they need to try new things |
| 01:29.28 | Zolden | I don't know anyone who would try Unity and then be lie "I no like, I go back to mapmaking" |
| 01:30.46 | DeadZergling | if the maps had any support, I might be more optimistic, but they really aren't |
| 01:31.45 | Zolden | well, you decide, no push, I just share waht worked for me |
| 01:32.02 | Zolden | no push at all |
| 01:32.03 | DeadZergling | yea, but you are talented as an artist too |
| 01:32.06 | DeadZergling | I don't have that perk |
| 01:32.33 | Zolden | thanks, but I don't like modelling, so found an artist |
| 01:33.00 | Zolden | just zero amount of push |
| 01:33.41 | Zolden | GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO UNITY! GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO |
| 01:35.05 | Zolden | oops, cat stepped on the keyboard |
| 01:35.06 | Zolden | sorry |
| 01:35.35 | DeadZergling | one talented cat ass Zolden has there. |
| 01:49.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Thunderbi@99-8-167-79.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:52.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster Triceron (~Triceron@24.86.33.144) |
| 02:25.52 | draktok | Yes .... I do question |
| 02:26.01 | draktok | How much modeling knowledge is needed to be able to even use unity |
| 02:26.19 | draktok | Cause I know 0 modeling and i have no desire to learn "just the basics" even |
| 02:30.49 | Bounty | It really depends if you want to be a self sufficient machine or not draktok |
| 02:31.02 | draktok | I mean i guess |
| 02:31.03 | Bounty | most people don't go that route lol |
| 02:31.04 | draktok | right now, i am |
| 02:31.09 | draktok | except for bugging you guys for help of course |
| 02:31.20 | draktok | i just don't know if i can make a hobby game over the next year (like i currently do for sc2) without |
| 02:31.23 | draktok | artist help |
| 02:31.30 | Bounty | SC2 doesn't count IMO since you already have assets made for you. |
| 02:31.32 | draktok | like how many free assetts are available for a hobbiest |
| 02:31.41 | draktok | well ya |
| 02:31.43 | draktok | that's why i use sc2 |
| 02:32.07 | draktok | im just curious if there is an engine (unity or not i guess) that allows me to continue hobby making games without paying for assets or learning how to model / artist :D |
| 02:32.25 | Bounty | RPG Maker lol |
| 02:32.42 | draktok | i used that shit |
| 02:32.45 | draktok | it's actually kind of fun |
| 02:32.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jademus (~JademusSr@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 02:32.56 | draktok | to make your own version of "final fantasy 3" type game ... or golden sun |
| 02:32.59 | draktok | really not a bad tool! |
| 02:33.08 | Bounty | Alternatively, you could just draw your own 2D models |
| 02:33.14 | Bounty | Even if you're a bad artist lol |
| 02:33.20 | draktok | ya |
| 02:33.25 | draktok | my brother does |
| 02:33.26 | draktok | pixel stuff |
| 02:33.29 | draktok | he's going to school for |
| 02:33.32 | draktok | some kind of gay-art stuff |
| 02:33.38 | draktok | I could ask him to make me pixel art... |
| 02:33.44 | draktok | i wonder how hard it is to animate pixel sprites? |
| 02:34.27 | Bounty | Not hard at all I would imagine. |
| 02:34.37 | Bounty | Just have to draw each frame yourself iirc |
| 02:34.54 | DeadZergling | no, they have programs for that Bounty |
| 02:35.06 | DeadZergling | you just have to get one good image of it |
| 02:35.14 | Bounty | nice |
| 02:35.15 | DeadZergling | then move it around as needed |
| 02:36.17 | DeadZergling | anyways back another time, later you two |
| 02:40.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Triceron (~Triceron@24.86.33.144) |
| 02:40.16 | Triceron | and if not there is a store where you can buy models |
| 02:40.47 | Triceron | some may be free to use there, though I haven't checked myself |
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| 04:35.46 | Bounty | Are you having some sort of identity crisis Jademus_Sreg? |
| 06:27.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Goa (~Goa_@91.82.130.12.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:12.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Goa (~Goa_@91.83.21.46.pool.invitel.hu) |
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| 11:29.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (Zolden@88.135.4.202) |
| 11:30.12 | Zolden | Goa_ motherfuckers evolved! |
| 12:01.36 | Goa_ | nice |
| 12:01.43 | Goa_ | had it run for the night?:D |
| 12:02.12 | Goa_ | Zolden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Bu0du1RRU |
| 12:03.12 | Zolden | just removed one "+", and it started evolving very fast, 20 generation -> they stopped dieing |
| 12:04.33 | Zolden | I thought output from genes should be interpreted as acceleration, but it didn't work, too slow -> can't avoid the obstacle, too fast -> kill themselv over walls |
| 12:04.48 | Zolden | interpreting it as velocity fixed it |
| 12:06.28 | Goa_ | Took me more than a hour today morning to figure out that you can no longer move static objects by script in Unity 5.0 |
| 12:06.48 | Goa_ | Interestingly it does moves the object, but not the mesh:D |
| 12:06.56 | Zolden | I think at one point, when I was a young noob, I tired to get a coder job in Nival, but they found my C++ skills not enough |
| 12:07.08 | Goa_ | hehe |
| 12:07.47 | Zolden | what's static object? |
| 12:07.55 | Zolden | something about baking shit? |
| 12:08.12 | Zolden | maybe you need to set it dynamic something to allow you move and rebake? |
| 12:08.27 | Goa_ | yeah, static objects help lot in lighting |
| 12:08.42 | Zolden | are you trying to create something new already? |
| 12:08.50 | Goa_ | though I am not really baking them so it doesnt really matters |
| 12:09.02 | Goa_ | no, its Flappy egg 3d |
| 12:09.14 | Goa_ | though I did work on my new game in the last 1-2 days |
| 12:09.45 | Goa_ | but now I will probably publish my 2 other game the next day |
| 12:10.16 | Goa_ | and will try to publish Flappy Egg on web sites. (probably on flash sites) |
| 12:11.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster JademusSreg (~JademusSr@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 12:13.44 | Zolden | what if you change flappy egg shaders to the badass new ones? |
| 12:14.11 | Zolden | you have <10 low poly meshes on screen, so good shader won't push gpu much |
| 12:14.34 | Goa_ | Zolden already did change the egg's shaders:D |
| 12:15.17 | Zolden | wanna have some evolution fun? I can send you a build |
| 12:15.20 | Goa_ | Also I thought unity 5.0 eats more fps on mobile just by importing the project as it is to 5, but I tested it and it doesnt. |
| 12:15.32 | Goa_ | pretty much eats the same amount fps |
| 12:15.49 | Goa_ | maybe later Zolden |
| 12:16.02 | Zolden | It's a common direction to optimize new versions of the engine, so it eats same or smaller amount of performance |
| 12:16.03 | Goa_ | I really want to publish now that 2 of my games now |
| 12:16.37 | Zolden | yea, do it, and make a new one |
| 12:16.43 | Zolden | it's fun to start a new shit |
| 12:16.57 | Goa_ | What was really confusing that Egg laged, but I figured out that I was retarded and didnt use lastupdate when repositioning the camera:D |
| 12:17.17 | Goa_ | I already started new one |
| 12:17.29 | Goa_ | and have 2 almost finished that needs to be published |
| 12:17.32 | Zolden | what is it about? |
| 12:17.41 | Goa_ | maybe at the weakend I will look at your evolution stuff:D |
| 12:18.09 | Zolden | it will evolve alot till weekend |
| 12:18.31 | Goa_ | nice:D |
| 12:19.18 | Zolden | no one guessed correctly http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/terrain/76956-weekly-terraining-exercise-199-crossover/?unread |
| 12:19.42 | Zolden | fucking noobs, don't know classics |
| 12:22.02 | Goa_ | what the fuck you do with sc2 editor anyway? |
| 12:26.00 | Zolden | just drawn a terrain while having evolution going on 2 computers |
| 12:26.42 | Zolden | btw, raycasts are so fucking heavy in cpu consumption! |
| 12:28.10 | Zolden | 500 objects x six 2d raycasts x fixed update -> i7 stumbles already |
| 12:28.15 | Goa_ | time to test how much more the new shaders eat compared to the mobile ones |
| 12:28.24 | Goa_ | and old ones |
| 12:28.37 | Zolden | Do you test with profiler? |
| 12:28.47 | Goa_ | just with simple fps counter |
| 12:29.03 | Goa_ | for now |
| 12:29.41 | Goa_ | I dont think 3k 2d raycast should stumble i7 |
| 12:30.19 | Goa_ | pretty much halved my fps:D |
| 12:32.14 | Zolden | well, maybe there's no multithreading |
| 12:34.39 | Goa_ | I dont think it would matter much on my mobile |
| 12:35.34 | Goa_ | I hate that you cant easily tint mobile shaders |
| 12:44.08 | Zolden | try to use tintable non-mobile |
| 12:44.22 | Zolden | mobile shaders were created long time ago, for realy shitty mobiles |
| 12:45.03 | Zolden | maybe particle -> blend one |
| 12:45.07 | Zolden | it's pretty simple |
| 12:52.24 | Goa_ | I just use legacy diffuse |
| 12:52.34 | Goa_ | so I use 4.6 diffuse |
| 12:53.01 | Goa_ | though only for the walls that are placed as you move |
| 12:53.35 | Zolden | ok, use different one, that supports tinging |
| 12:53.41 | Goa_ | I use mobile for everything else expect for the egg and its wings for which I use the new shaders |
| 12:54.19 | Zolden | you can create physically realistic egg texture, the real egg |
| 12:54.37 | Goa_ | no thx:D |
| 12:54.49 | Goa_ | I dont want to work more on that shit |
| 12:54.56 | Zolden | understandable |
| 12:55.05 | Goa_ | I already opened my loopit |
| 12:55.06 | Goa_ | shit |
| 12:55.16 | Goa_ | for which I still dont know a good name |
| 12:55.24 | Goa_ | I will probably leave it as Loopit |
| 12:55.43 | Goa_ | or Loopy but thats probably taken |
| 13:02.42 | Zolden | name it zaloop-it |
| 13:02.46 | Zolden | russians will like |
| 13:25.48 | Goa_ | what doe it mean? |
| 13:26.00 | Zolden | zaluoopa? |
| 13:26.05 | Zolden | ask some russian |
| 13:36.59 | Zolden | wow, only 10 minutes of simulation, 41 generation, already act smarter than any coder could code their AI to act |
| 13:37.33 | Zolden | this thing will be the main instrument for creating ai for games |
| 13:37.53 | Zolden | and those ai's will finally stop being stupid |
| 13:56.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Rommper (bc241057@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.36.16.87) |
| 14:04.07 | Zolden | Rommper no, I haven't yet |
| 14:04.19 | Zolden | I'm a coder, not a player, as Michael Jackson sung |
| 14:04.29 | Zolden | but one day I will try |
| 14:04.30 | Rommper | wathever |
| 14:04.43 | Zolden | btw, why didn't you use splats as roads? |
| 14:04.50 | Zolden | also: are roads units? |
| 14:04.58 | Rommper | ofc they are units |
| 14:05.03 | Zolden | god |
| 14:05.08 | Zolden | vomits |
| 14:05.28 | Zolden | hugs unity an feels safe |
| 14:05.36 | Rommper | good for ya |
| 14:05.44 | Zolden | good for all of us |
| 14:06.47 | Goa_ | Zolden finally a good film about this shit: https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11786083/Going_Clear_Scientology_and_the_Prison_of_Belief_2015_HDTV_x264- |
| 14:07.53 | Goa_ | Zolden thinking of it, I might need your AI for my next project:D |
| 14:08.38 | Zolden | oh yea, it's what it made for |
| 14:09.19 | Zolden | just create a simulation of many competing fuckers, and a little interface to the genome |
| 14:10.01 | Zolden | simply genome needs 2 arrays of float, each element should be in [0, 1] range |
| 14:10.27 | Zolden | at each fixed update you write input to one array, run genes and take numbers from output |
| 14:10.44 | Zolden | what is your next game about? |
| 14:11.28 | Goa_ | tug of war.D |
| 14:11.36 | Zolden | Goa_ does search work for you here? http://thepiratebay.cd/ |
| 14:11.50 | Goa_ | yeah |
| 14:11.54 | Zolden | crap |
| 14:12.01 | Goa_ | ohh |
| 14:12.03 | Goa_ | nope |
| 14:12.05 | Goa_ | it doesnt |
| 14:12.05 | Zolden | piratebay is heavily blocked it seems |
| 14:12.07 | Zolden | ok |
| 14:12.13 | Goa_ | ahh it does |
| 14:12.17 | Zolden | then it's broken on their side |
| 14:12.18 | Goa_ | but takes quite some time |
| 14:12.23 | Zolden | oh |
| 14:12.34 | Zolden | serch for "five armies" pls |
| 14:12.43 | Goa_ | just use http://kickass.to/ |
| 14:12.45 | Zolden | and pick the best bluerayrip one |
| 14:13.22 | Zolden | oh, thanks |
| 14:13.23 | Zolden | it worked |
| 14:13.26 | Zolden | nice |
| 14:13.29 | Goa_ | :) |
| 14:13.41 | Goa_ | its almost as good as PB |
| 14:14.16 | Zolden | tug of war like what? |
| 14:14.24 | Zolden | and waht unit models u plan to use? |
| 14:14.42 | Zolden | and what style |
| 14:14.57 | Zolden | sci-fi? realistic? medieval? fantasy? modern war? |
| 14:15.16 | Zolden | delphinium published alot of pretty nice modern war units - tanks, planes |
| 14:15.22 | Zolden | good looking shit |
| 14:15.55 | Goa_ | you should guess it from how much I like modeling:D |
| 14:17.19 | Goa_ | It wont have more complex models than this: http://www.crossyroad.com/ :D |
| 14:18.00 | Zolden | fun style |
| 14:18.04 | Zolden | 3d pixel art |
| 14:18.13 | Zolden | you want to use it? |
| 14:18.23 | Zolden | so, it will be abstract tug of war? |
| 14:18.35 | Zolden | why don't you find an artist? |
| 14:19.22 | Zolden | good 3d artist works as fast as a coder, so 3 months can be enough to create a nice game |
| 14:19.24 | Goa_ | will figure out details later:D |
| 14:19.39 | Zolden | how will you pathfind and navigate units? |
| 14:20.07 | Zolden | I thought about using 2d physics simply, let they move wherever they want, push each other |
| 14:20.15 | Zolden | simple to code, realistic |
| 14:38.48 | Zolden | Goa_ in this experiment I made the environment change (obstacles fly not only to -> bottom, but from sides too), so now organisms need to adapt to new dangers |
| 14:39.12 | Zolden | the change happened after 100s generation |
| 14:39.39 | Zolden | they suffer, but evolve |
| 14:39.44 | Zolden | little motherfuckers |
| 14:40.00 | Goa_ | they will have fixed paths |
| 14:40.12 | Goa_ | so that is pretty simple |
| 14:40.19 | Goa_ | I am almost done with that |
| 14:40.45 | Goa_ | nice Zolden |
| 14:40.59 | Zolden | what atbou the fight? will they approach each other? |
| 14:41.14 | Goa_ | they fight what is in front of them |
| 14:41.25 | Zolden | won't melee ones have to maneur to reach enemy units in range? |
| 14:41.30 | Goa_ | I will make everything very simple.... |
| 14:41.31 | Zolden | ok |
| 14:41.38 | Goa_ | no |
| 14:41.50 | Goa_ | you just need to place melee to front pretty much |
| 14:41.53 | Zolden | tug of war is already complex, so keeping parts simple is good |
| 14:42.08 | Goa_ | as all will spawn at the same time like in my sc2 map |
| 14:43.08 | Zolden | yea, and when army is big, a melle fucker can kill the unit in front of him, left to him, and right to him, and there will be more at sides, so he would have to move there, but there will be friendly units too approaching those last targets |
| 14:43.24 | Zolden | how 10 melee units will fight 1 unit? |
| 14:43.28 | Zolden | how they surround? |
| 14:44.08 | Zolden | wow, so precise narrow escapes :) |
| 14:44.34 | Zolden | no human engineer would be able to configure the many parameters so precisely |
| 14:44.51 | Zolden | evolution is the future of engineering AI and other shit |
| 14:44.57 | Zolden | soon it will learn to build shape |
| 14:45.06 | Zolden | THAT WILL BE BATD FUCKING SHIT |
| 14:49.32 | Goa_ | well melee units will be to attack units near them , not just in front of them |
| 14:49.57 | Goa_ | also, currently you can place units in top of each other:D |
| 14:50.04 | Goa_ | so it will be true 3D:D |
| 14:50.45 | Goa_ | probably melee units will be able to attack units that are under them too |
| 14:50.59 | Goa_ | but that will be all balancing stuff |
| 15:19.51 | Goa_ | Zolden watch it: http://kickass.to/going-clear-scientology-and-the-prison-of-belief-2015-hdtv-x264-fum-ettv-t10431911.html |
| 15:52.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@p579030B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:24.26 | Zolden | wow |
| 16:24.33 | Zolden | I just came back from outside |
| 16:24.38 | Zolden | 282 generations |
| 16:24.43 | Zolden | THEY ARE SO PERFECT! |
| 16:25.13 | Zolden | Goa_ waht is it about? |
| 16:25.31 | Goa_ | its about scientology |
| 16:25.36 | Zolden | I have like 20 movies downloaded, and 20 planned, where shold I put it in this queue |
| 16:25.42 | Zolden | what if I don't care? |
| 16:25.50 | Goa_ | basically its about how easy to brainwash people. |
| 16:25.52 | Zolden | I know they are fuckers, trying to frame their enemies |
| 16:26.05 | Zolden | ok, i'll dl |
| 16:26.09 | Goa_ | ahh thats just one stuff |
| 16:27.12 | Goa_ | its fucking disturbing though, if the leaders of it wouldnt be brainwashed too and would have some brain it could be actually far more effective.... |
| 16:27.48 | Goa_ | also fun fact learned, it all started from a guy who wrote scifi shorts:D |
| 16:32.44 | Zolden | people who write scifi shorts are good people |
| 16:33.06 | Zolden | i know everything about brainwashing, i live in russia |
| 16:33.14 | Goa_ | the note worthy yes |
| 16:33.21 | Goa_ | mostly |
| 16:34.15 | Goa_ | Yeah, but its bit different brainwashing |
| 16:35.56 | Goa_ | also most of the video are interviews from top people who were in this shit |
| 16:46.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster anarch (anarch@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zskzpnbwvyklsnyw) |
| 16:48.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster blackcud (4fd1f6ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.209.246.239) |
| 16:48.14 | blackcud | my gf invited people for dinner. nice people, but I want to do mapping. halp! |
| 16:48.42 | Fisker | Those two events have no correlation |
| 16:49.36 | blackcud | there is no door between the living room and my computer |
| 16:52.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@192.77.237.103) |
| 16:53.49 | Zolden | anarch hey, recieved? |
| 17:02.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster pirate (46435120@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.67.81.32) |
| 17:02.49 | pirate | is there a layout file that affects the cursor? |
| 17:07.01 | Zolden | pirate why on earth aren't you still in unity? |
| 17:07.41 | pirate | I'm not on anything at the moment |
| 17:07.42 | Zolden | blackcud wtf, just troll people, it's funnier than mapmaking |
| 17:08.00 | pirate | Im just helping other people's forum issues |
| 17:08.52 | Zolden | pirate the main issue of that forum that no one recognized this http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/terrain/76956-weekly-terraining-exercise-199-crossover/?post=2 |
| 17:09.00 | Zolden | and you can't help it |
| 17:10.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster draktok (4905a49f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.5.164.159) |
| 17:10.26 | draktok | Well i wanted to force players to have to play my map with the wc3 hd models |
| 17:10.34 | draktok | but locking that variant makes the game error when i try to upload |
| 17:10.36 | draktok | annoying |
| 17:11.09 | Zolden | draktok what map |
| 17:11.57 | draktok | I remaking / remade rabbits vs sheep |
| 17:12.01 | draktok | was working fine on the ptr |
| 17:12.05 | draktok | i just tried to launch live and it just |
| 17:12.14 | draktok | doesn't like my game variant locking wc3 hd models |
| 17:12.22 | draktok | dum, oh well |
| 17:13.19 | draktok | Zolden are you using unity 4 or 5 |
| 17:13.26 | Zolden | 5 |
| 17:13.45 | draktok | I'm gonna play with it |
| 17:13.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Thunderbi@99-8-167-79.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:14.46 | draktok | well |
| 17:14.48 | Zolden | draktok there won't be way back to the editor |
| 17:14.58 | draktok | haha you mean |
| 17:15.03 | draktok | from unity 5 to sc2 again? |
| 17:15.16 | Zolden | yea |
| 17:15.19 | Zolden | it spoils people |
| 17:15.29 | Zolden | it's freedom and possibilities |
| 17:15.30 | Zolden | you know |
| 17:15.48 | Zolden | it's like going back to a village after spending summer in the city |
| 17:16.27 | draktok | good idea, i will build a game where you travel from a cillage to a city |
| 17:16.37 | draktok | city will be named "unity-sion" or something |
| 17:16.43 | draktok | from a village * |
| 17:17.40 | draktok | I didn't know cities skyline was built in unity |
| 17:17.41 | draktok | neat |
| 17:18.13 | draktok | and one of my other favorite games - dungeon of the endless |
| 17:18.14 | draktok | neat again |
| 17:18.56 | Zolden | more and more developers using engines instead of raw C++ |
| 17:19.08 | draktok | and forced! |
| 17:19.12 | draktok | well you know, it makes sense |
| 17:19.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 17:19.13 | Zolden | saves shitton of time, allows multiplatforming |
| 17:19.18 | draktok | It's less ... stressful |
| 17:19.23 | draktok | Especially for an indy developer |
| 17:19.35 | draktok | and it's a better tool for people like me who just tinker, but never really "make" anything |
| 17:19.39 | Zolden | oh, indies are in engines like fish in river |
| 17:19.40 | draktok | I can't just tinker in c++ so well.. |
| 17:20.06 | Zolden | some C++ fuckment is a good experience, but not necessary |
| 17:20.28 | draktok | my only problem as i was telling teh guys last night is i just |
| 17:20.37 | draktok | don't do anything related to modeling / artistry |
| 17:20.48 | draktok | so i hope i can find enough free assetts or cheap assets to play with ... just for fun :) |
| 17:22.09 | draktok | that or i will make friends with an artist >:D |
| 17:23.27 | draktok | any tutorials you specifically recommend Zolden? |
| 17:24.05 | Zolden | draktok find an artist, it's the best |
| 17:24.13 | Zolden | or use models from sc2 assest |
| 17:24.21 | Zolden | or maybe free shit from asset store |
| 17:24.32 | Zolden | but if you coder, don't do art, it's waste of time |
| 17:24.43 | draktok | well i don't plan to |
| 17:24.49 | draktok | i will find free shit / an artist who is bored |
| 17:27.02 | draktok | i think the nice part about unity will be |
| 17:27.08 | draktok | I will finally be able to use all 3 of my monitors |
| 17:27.12 | draktok | ... or something |
| 17:27.13 | draktok | idk |
| 17:27.19 | draktok | Bounty how are you today |
| 17:28.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 17:28.48 | Zolden | http://coub.com/view/1l692 |
| 17:55.31 | draktok | why don't you go on a nice bike ride with putin zolden |
| 17:58.27 | Zolden | putin is virtual |
| 17:58.42 | Zolden | he's being rendered on kremiln servers |
| 17:59.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Thunderbi@99-8-167-79.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:00.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster kritzikratzi (~kritzikra@d86-32-54-50.cust.tele2.at) |
| 18:06.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 18:14.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zeldo (uid31320@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kmymrbzbruaubmmw) |
| 18:14.51 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+o Zeldo] by ChanServ |
| 18:16.09 | draktok | ya |
| 18:16.23 | draktok | do you think u could be friends with putin :^) |
| 18:16.27 | draktok | i couldn't be friends with obama |
| 18:16.29 | draktok | smoke 2 much weed |
| 18:18.14 | Goa_ | Zolden did you watch Interstellar already? |
| 18:22.57 | Zolden | draktok who? him or you? |
| 18:23.05 | draktok | him |
| 18:23.10 | draktok | he black he smoke weed |
| 18:23.22 | Zolden | Goa_ yes and no. Yes - in parallel universe. No - in this one. |
| 18:23.57 | Zolden | weed smoking friends are good friends |
| 18:24.35 | Zolden | trying to remember at least one of his friends who don't smoke weed |
| 18:24.43 | Goa_ | haha |
| 18:25.01 | Goa_ | thinks now that Zolden have very few friends:) |
| 18:25.15 | Goa_ | has* pff |
| 18:25.41 | draktok | i don't smoke weed |
| 18:25.45 | draktok | if you can consider me a friend ;D |
| 18:25.54 | Zolden | weed in russia is one of the few ways to not see the depressive signs |
| 18:26.07 | Zolden | for example, it's still winter here, snow everywhere and cold |
| 18:26.17 | Goa_ | you dont needs to smoke it, you can eat it too:D |
| 18:26.35 | Zolden | draktok i can't even be sure if it's one person behind your nickname or maybe it's a bunch of roommates |
| 18:26.49 | draktok | hahaha |
| 18:26.53 | draktok | am i different too much? |
| 18:26.59 | Zolden | Goa_ smoking is economy |
| 18:27.18 | Zolden | same amount eaten won't make you as high |
| 18:27.37 | Zolden | but some people make milk |
| 18:29.09 | Goa_ | I am not sure |
| 18:29.51 | draktok | it's just me here Zolden - my roommates don't speak english |
| 18:29.58 | Goa_ | if you extract the weed with alcohol thats probably the most economy friendly |
| 18:30.04 | Zolden | it can be testsed by mythbusters |
| 18:30.22 | Zolden | draktok waht do they speed? chinese? |
| 18:31.04 | Zolden | Goa_ it's simple, try to cook the same amount of weed as you need to get high through smoking |
| 18:31.26 | draktok | Spanish |
| 18:31.29 | Zolden | you won't feel anything even if it's extracted with liquid |
| 18:31.34 | draktok | I live with a bunch of illegal mexicans (seriously) |
| 18:31.45 | Zolden | do they sell weed? |
| 18:31.57 | draktok | yeah |
| 18:32.02 | draktok | my house reaks of shitty mexican weed |
| 18:32.11 | draktok | i don't smoke though lol |
| 18:32.31 | Goa_ | Zolden alcohol extraction doesnt include cooking, you make a tincture.... |
| 18:33.06 | Goa_ | you end up with a stuff that can contain up to 50% thc:D |
| 18:34.15 | Zolden | yea, but ti's easier to extract with butane |
| 18:34.22 | Zolden | easier to evaporate |
| 18:35.11 | Goa_ | yeah |
| 18:35.18 | Goa_ | but if you would do it large |
| 18:35.32 | Goa_ | probably tincture would be the most economy friendly |
| 18:35.51 | Goa_ | and smoking it feels the best |
| 18:36.16 | Zolden | oh yea, it's just teleportation |
| 18:36.20 | Goa_ | and too bad that I have no weed at home now |
| 18:36.29 | Zolden | lol |
| 18:36.45 | Zolden | talking about weed makes you want it? |
| 18:37.37 | Zolden | coding alot gives a nice high |
| 18:37.42 | Zolden | also writing alot |
| 18:39.07 | draktok | i have shitty mexican weed |
| 18:39.10 | draktok | want me to mail it 2 u |
| 18:40.21 | Goa_ | nope |
| 18:41.14 | draktok | i will say |
| 18:41.21 | draktok | that the colorado people |
| 18:41.30 | draktok | have some nice weed they sell at those stores |
| 18:41.30 | draktok | damn |
| 18:41.48 | draktok | can see the purple ... never see purple in shitty mexican weed |
| 18:42.13 | Goa_ | that might be cause they are dried |
| 18:42.21 | Goa_ | which isnt a bad thing |
| 18:43.02 | Goa_ | if your weed is really fresh, you better dry it... |
| 18:48.05 | draktok | i don't smoke so |
| 18:48.10 | draktok | i don't dry shit :D |
| 18:48.57 | draktok | why doesn't the gas station sell cheese |
| 18:48.58 | draktok | damn |
| 19:01.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836bae4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.174.77) |
| 19:08.09 | Zolden | why doesn't the squirrel station sell poop |
| 19:08.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@2a02:8109:140:c9c:69dd:c912:bc12:ed36) |
| 19:09.46 | Zolden | Goa_ 520th generation, some are so agile, they move like t1000 |
| 19:11.35 | Zolden | they use smallest possibility to escape, like they realy alive and see, and analyse |
| 19:11.56 | Zolden | I never seen such precision in any of my experiments |
| 19:12.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Rommper (bc241057@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.36.16.87) |
| 19:13.51 | Goa_ | make a gif of it |
| 19:14.07 | Goa_ | cause I cant visualize it from just your words. |
| 19:14.17 | Zolden | i'll make a video |
| 19:14.41 | Zolden | Goa_ waht cpu do you have? |
| 19:15.55 | Zolden | it works in background, you can just run my build, see how stupid they are, then watch a movie, and see how smart they became |
| 19:19.06 | Goa_ | okey |
| 19:19.09 | Goa_ | send it to me:D |
| 19:19.28 | Zolden | that's better |
| 19:19.34 | Zolden | pm me your email |
| 19:19.47 | Goa_ | hookah604@gmail.com |
| 19:20.34 | Zolden | what's your cpu? |
| 19:20.39 | Goa_ | http://pasteboard.co/2dQoy7KK.png |
| 19:20.42 | Zolden | i need ti to set max population size |
| 19:21.20 | Zolden | hmm |
| 19:22.08 | DeadZergling | you still going on about the evolution of your computer Zolden ? |
| 19:23.08 | Zolden | DeadZergling do you wnat to watch it? |
| 19:23.15 | Zolden | i can send you the build |
| 19:23.19 | DeadZergling | maybe, what am I watching? |
| 19:23.37 | Zolden | circles buttsex each other, evolve |
| 19:26.47 | Zolden | DeadZergling it's just a first simple experiment, but organisms controlled by my genome model evolve realy good, so they should solve more complex tasks, but ti's already fun to watch |
| 19:26.50 | Zolden | Goa_ sent |
| 19:30.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin_Hendricks (~Dustin_He@12.203.180.244) |
| 19:30.10 | DeadZergling | what do I have to do to watch it anyways? |
| 19:30.35 | Zolden | just run that exe i send to you |
| 19:30.55 | Zolden | it will work show you how they die |
| 19:31.17 | Zolden | you can minimize it and do stuff, check it once in 20 minutes to see how they getting smarter |
| 19:31.20 | Zolden | die less |
| 19:36.57 | Goa_ | unity 5? |
| 19:37.14 | Zolden | yes, I moved to it recently, you should try it, good soft |
| 19:37.27 | Goa_ | :D |
| 19:39.42 | Goa_ | I might let it run for the night |
| 19:39.48 | Goa_ | with some other stuff:D |
| 19:40.15 | Zolden | yea, do it |
| 19:40.28 | Zolden | it's pretty unbugged at this point |
| 19:40.59 | Zolden | but already in 30 minutes you will notice some clever moves |
| 19:44.28 | Goa_ | when do you reset the enviroment ? when x circle left alive? |
| 19:44.58 | Goa_ | also is there a way to speed it up? |
| 19:46.11 | Zolden | yes, when x circles left alive |
| 19:46.29 | Zolden | or, on later stages, if time's up |
| 19:46.35 | Zolden | when they don't die that easy |
| 19:47.14 | Zolden | maybe I could implement something to decrease fixed delta time |
| 19:47.24 | Zolden | not sure if it possible |
| 19:47.29 | Zolden | but it could be sensible |
| 19:47.49 | Zolden | also, i need to spread it on all cpu cores |
| 19:47.55 | Zolden | calculations are independent |
| 19:48.56 | Goa_ | dont know how do you run it, but should be easy to speed it up |
| 19:49.08 | Goa_ | just dont use fixedupdate... |
| 19:50.26 | Goa_ | nice stuff Zolden though, some already making some weird moves.D |
| 19:50.28 | Zolden | i need to use fixed update, because I use physics, which runs in fixed update timeframe |
| 19:50.37 | Goa_ | pff |
| 19:50.55 | Zolden | use physics means less coding |
| 19:51.31 | Zolden | just listen to events, cast rays, move with rigidbody.velosity |
| 19:51.49 | Zolden | never been so easy |
| 19:52.01 | Goa_ | is there a way to speed up physics calculation? |
| 19:52.12 | Goa_ | would be nice |
| 19:53.48 | Zolden | I think there is |
| 19:55.18 | Zolden | yea, fixed timestep can be set in options |
| 19:55.23 | Zolden | and probably in Time class |
| 19:56.26 | Zolden | there's also timescale |
| 19:57.18 | Zolden | yea, timescale does the thing |
| 19:57.52 | Zolden | and it can be set through Time.timescale |
| 19:58.32 | Zolden | so, i'll pay some attention to multithreading and speeding things up automatically |
| 19:58.43 | Zolden | cause 5 hours per experiment is too much |
| 19:59.22 | Goa_ | :D |
| 19:59.45 | DeadZergling | what exe zolden, I still haven't got one from you :P |
| 20:04.52 | Zolden | DeadZergling pm me your email |
| 20:05.10 | DeadZergling | it is really complex though.... it is this name, + @hotmail.com |
| 20:06.44 | Goa_ | yeah Zolden, send your exe virus to all of us:D |
| 20:08.35 | Goa_ | nice, they are getting smarter |
| 20:18.24 | Zolden | DeadZergling recieved? |
| 20:18.47 | DeadZergling | not yet, did you send it as an exe? my mail might not like that |
| 20:18.59 | Zolden | i sent it as .penis |
| 20:19.01 | Zolden | just rename it |
| 20:38.16 | DeadZergling | uh, just what am I watching |
| 20:39.02 | Zolden | circles are organims, they die if touch a line |
| 20:39.06 | Zolden | lines are obstacles |
| 20:39.13 | Zolden | they also die if touch a wall |
| 20:39.24 | Zolden | organism can sense around them, and can move |
| 20:39.39 | Zolden | genome controls the movement based on what they see |
| 20:39.43 | DeadZergling | well, certainly better in windowed mode |
| 20:39.50 | Zolden | random genom is being created at start |
| 20:40.32 | Zolden | population dies, the survivors make kids |
| 20:40.40 | Zolden | so, it all slowly evolves |
| 20:40.52 | Zolden | until finally they are able to dodge obstacles |
| 20:41.02 | DeadZergling | my survivors seem to enjoy being stationary |
| 20:46.01 | Zolden | sometimes they pick a shitty strategy, but then they invent something better |
| 20:46.17 | DeadZergling | their current strategy is to be rain drops |
| 20:46.21 | Zolden | also, environment slowly getting mroe dangerous, so they have to move alot to have a chance to reproduce |
| 20:46.41 | Zolden | just minimize it, check in 30 minutes, u'll see some progress |
| 20:46.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@95.90.193.69) |
| 20:50.30 | DeadZergling | fall like rain, have giant circle orgies at the bottom |
| 20:50.35 | DeadZergling | that is my circle strategy |
| 20:57.07 | DeadZergling | your circles remind me of silver surfer |
| 20:59.57 | Bounty | http://imgur.com/vMqCAMk |
| 21:01.23 | DeadZergling | yea, love to see someone post that again, only with needs 'Allah' |
| 21:02.50 | DeadZergling | are the lines just iterative, zolden, or do they evolve too? |
| 21:03.43 | DeadZergling | if they don't, they should |
| 21:04.06 | DeadZergling | the top 4-6 lines that ate the most circles should be the ones who reproduce |
| 21:17.35 | Zolden | DeadZergling lines just ranadomly move, they are a part of environment fuckers should adapt to |
| 21:19.31 | DeadZergling | boo, I want carnivore evolution |
| 21:19.52 | Zolden | there will be |
| 21:19.59 | Zolden | I have 10 different experiments |
| 21:20.06 | Zolden | this one is first, the most simple |
| 21:20.26 | Zolden | I had to see if the model work, debug it |
| 21:20.52 | Zolden | still I"m not sure if everything works as intended, need to create some visualizations |
| 21:21.14 | Zolden | then I"ll go slowly through those 10 experiments, one of them will be carnivore |
| 21:21.39 | DeadZergling | by the way, if I turn this off, does it start over, or pick up where it left off? |
| 21:22.13 | Zolden | it will start from beginning again |
| 21:22.23 | Zolden | so if you wat to see them realy smart, just minimize |
| 21:22.40 | Zolden | on later stages I'll implement some saves of best genomes |
| 21:25.27 | DeadZergling | amazing how many reproduce that still think running into the wall is a good idea |
| 21:34.34 | Zolden | yea, it takes time for some obvious ideas |
| 21:35.02 | DeadZergling | speaking of evolution. I hate parties, and thus I hate evolution. It is because people who enjoy parties are more likely to vigorously have sex that the damn things still keep going on. |
| 21:35.11 | DeadZergling | evolution perpetuates what I hate and avoid at all costs. |
| 21:35.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ravonus (d811e669@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.17.230.105) |
| 21:39.32 | Zolden | being a nice guy would more possibly bring him to vigorous sex than parties |
| 21:40.06 | DeadZergling | women don't typically sleep with manginas, Zolden |
| 21:40.21 | Zolden | someone who lacks social skills won't have not more vigorous sex on parties than in museums |
| 21:40.44 | Ravonus | AWWW |
| 21:40.47 | Ravonus | what have i missed! |
| 21:40.52 | Ravonus | Vigorous sex!! |
| 21:41.11 | Zolden | yea, mapmaking is daed, so we discuss funnier things |
| 21:42.13 | Ravonus | Seems like a viable option |
| 21:42.22 | DeadZergling | lies Zolden , almost all we discuss here is non map making related |
| 21:42.27 | Ravonus | sc2 map making i feel never caught on like wc3 :( |
| 21:42.34 | Zolden | evolution does good thing, cause when there's war vs aliens, people who succeed in parties, will help humanity to survive, because their social skills will help to coordinate the resistance |
| 21:42.51 | Ravonus | Exactly Zolden |
| 21:42.57 | Ravonus | gotta be good at parties in order to survive |
| 21:43.02 | Zolden | Ravonus people move directly to unity engine, without spending much time in sc2 editor |
| 21:43.47 | Ravonus | Yeah blizzard just couldn't recreate their mod community like they had before |
| 21:43.57 | Ravonus | they didnt invest enough into sc2 at early stages IMO >< |
| 21:44.05 | Ravonus | for the mapping community at least |
| 21:44.53 | Zolden | yes, they sucked |
| 21:45.34 | Ravonus | it just amazes me how warcraft 3 ran by custom assets/games... Yet when sc2 came out they faught it so much |
| 21:46.07 | Ravonus | i mean warcraft 3 was bought by millions to play DOTA |
| 21:46.12 | Ravonus | not to play your RTS |
| 21:46.41 | Ravonus | shit even broodwar mapping community was better ha |
| 21:47.06 | Zolden | sc2 is a boring game, arcade is fun |
| 21:48.13 | Ravonus | yeah they should of really pushed their arcade development early on... I mean it works pretty well now |
| 21:48.30 | Ravonus | but so many things have been added that people told blizzard in sc2 BETA to add for map makers |
| 21:48.33 | Zolden | fortunatiely, we have unity with no limits and billions of potential players |
| 21:48.53 | Ravonus | but unity comes with its own issues.... Finding those potential players much harder |
| 21:49.33 | Zolden | good game does it easily with "share on facebook/twitter" button |
| 21:50.18 | Zolden | my first shitty game published on android with zero marketing and annoying gameplay mechanics has its 50 downloads a day easily |
| 21:50.28 | Zolden | sc2 can't give 50 new players every day |
| 21:50.44 | Zolden | better game easily have thousands downloads a day |
| 21:53.10 | Zolden | but the main issue with sc2 editor is limits. Even if if Storm fill arcade with its players, I won't still be able to implement gameplay mechaincs I want, cause editor has limits |
| 21:53.52 | Ravonus | yeah thats pretty good 50 downloads a day |
| 21:54.05 | Ravonus | I am getting more into the application dev end of things |
| 21:54.14 | Ravonus | especially web apps/node apps |
| 21:54.24 | Ravonus | shit has gotten advanced in the last few years |
| 21:56.15 | ArcanePariah | Yes, more tools have become standardized. Though other issues are arising. |
| 21:57.05 | ArcanePariah | Market is becoming oversaturated. |
| 21:57.33 | Ravonus | node.js/sails.js best thing since ruby on rails ha |
| 21:57.43 | ArcanePariah | Not to bash you Zolden or anyone else making such games for mobile, but of those 50 DLs a day, roughly 99.5% of them will be uninstalled within a day. |
| 21:57.52 | Ravonus | Can fully develop a webapp and the API,etc all created while you build the app |
| 21:58.55 | ArcanePariah | Yes, more advanced and flexible toolkits are available. However, the development of such tools is doing one good thing, it is providing a litmus on good developers vs bad. The tools magnified the failings of bad devs. |
| 21:59.02 | Zolden | ArcanePariah my game realy sucsk, and still there are 3k installed out of 20k downloads. It's completely gamedev issue, to hook the player |
| 21:59.40 | ArcanePariah | Problem is, players right now are... a problem frankly. They have 0 care, and most are actively hostile. |
| 22:00.43 | ArcanePariah | ALso, players fall pretty much into 3 catagories: Cheap (this is nearly all of them), hostile (this is 5% or so), and drug addicts (the whales, who make up the bulk of profits/sales) |
| 22:00.51 | Zolden | there are marketing approaches that leave no choice to player to download and play. If it's a god game. Market can be in any state, players can be in any state, gamedev talent conquers all. |
| 22:01.17 | ArcanePariah | Yes, to do well, one must first study drug dealers, and emulate them. |
| 22:01.20 | Bounty | I like that phrase ArcanePariah |
| 22:01.25 | Bounty | "actively hostile" lol |
| 22:01.30 | ArcanePariah | They have far better practice at hooking people then any game developer |
| 22:01.58 | ArcanePariah | First and most important rule: The first hit is always free |
| 22:02.00 | Zolden | ArcanePariah if the game is fun, players are ok to shit away a few bucks, they don't have to be addicted, they jsut have some fun, see how to increase fun for a few bucks, do |
| 22:02.49 | Zolden | yea, modern most profitable practics are based on free to play |
| 22:03.07 | ArcanePariah | Yes, and one thing games have going for them is they are cheaper then the normal flicks to drop money on (Sex, Alchohol, Movies, Dinners) |
| 22:03.15 | Bounty | Probably the worst thing to ever happen IMO... FTP. |
| 22:03.15 | Zolden | but again: gamu must be fun, nothing will work with boring game, almost everything will work better or not for a fun game |
| 22:03.46 | Bounty | FTP has essentially trained an entire generation of gamers to expect a lot for nothing. |
| 22:03.50 | ArcanePariah | Zolden, incorrect. game must be a mediocre amount of fun, but use psychological/sociological pressure. |
| 22:03.59 | ArcanePariah | Case in point, LoL |
| 22:03.59 | Zolden | yes, games are drugs, some are high quality, bring rare strong emotions, and are not expensive at all |
| 22:04.19 | ArcanePariah | LoL is adequete fun, but most admit, they play, because their friends play. |
| 22:04.27 | ArcanePariah | Not because the game is good or anything |
| 22:04.41 | ArcanePariah | Such people quit the game the same time their friends do, fun or not. |
| 22:04.48 | Zolden | it's about marketing |
| 22:04.55 | Bounty | I think dota is the most boring genre of game lol |
| 22:05.08 | Bounty | idk how people play or least of all, watch it. |
| 22:05.19 | Zolden | but there's indeed a loop: fun gameplay helps marketing, good marketing helps the game |
| 22:05.21 | ArcanePariah | Yes, and marketing is about psychological manipulation, convincing you that you NEED the product. |
| 22:05.45 | ArcanePariah | When in reality, much things could be averted by people NOT buying a great deal of things and being more prudent with money. |
| 22:05.55 | Zolden | Bounty angry birds was a hit, now it's in the ass. tastes change |
| 22:06.16 | Bounty | Its not the tastes that change |
| 22:06.20 | Bounty | People already played it |
| 22:06.22 | ArcanePariah | Also, games appeal to the reality that most of the US is poor |
| 22:06.41 | ArcanePariah | Majority of the world population is in poverty |
| 22:06.46 | ArcanePariah | Including the US |
| 22:07.02 | Zolden | ArcanePariah good game is able to self-market. "share at fb/twitter" can do a great job in spreading the game, if it's realy fun. and it's the cheapest marketing |
| 22:07.13 | ArcanePariah | Agreed |
| 22:07.28 | Zolden | germany is the reachest country, it seems |
| 22:07.39 | ArcanePariah | It is, to a degree |
| 22:07.48 | ArcanePariah | It isn't the richest in absolute terms |
| 22:07.58 | ArcanePariah | But it has the most balanced economy I feel |
| 22:08.06 | Zolden | its people seem to spend money on games pretty easily |
| 22:08.16 | Zolden | americans do as well |
| 22:08.18 | ArcanePariah | THe US frankly isn't much different then Russia, same economic structure. |
| 22:08.20 | Bounty | Germany always seems to be way ahead of everyone else |
| 22:08.30 | ArcanePariah | Well, Americans are fucking idoits |
| 22:08.41 | Bounty | only time Germany falls behind is after a World War lol |
| 22:08.47 | Bounty | then they just come right back |
| 22:08.48 | Bounty | its insane |
| 22:09.09 | Zolden | yes they are the same, except US is reach and have like 40% of world economy, while Russia is poor and have barely 1.5% of world economy |
| 22:09.09 | ArcanePariah | We finance too much crap with debt and it is steadily reaching a critical point. Either the US will have major reforms or a possible revolt, within 4-6 years. |
| 22:09.29 | Bounty | I don't think Americans are idiots ArcanePariah |
| 22:09.32 | ArcanePariah | True, but like russia, 1% of the population controls the majority of the wealth |
| 22:09.56 | ArcanePariah | lol Bounty, yes we are, as once quoted "You can count on Americans to do the right thing.... after they have tried everything else" |
| 22:10.04 | Bounty | My theory is, if I was the US government and wanted things to stay the same way they are now.... the best way to do that is to keep people living paycheck to paycheck |
| 22:10.11 | Zolden | Bounty gerams are good at stuff. they've been doing great corporations at nothern europe in early second millennium |
| 22:10.15 | Bounty | that way, they don't have time to look into how bad they're getting fufcked. |
| 22:10.17 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 22:10.24 | ArcanePariah | It isn't as much we are stupid, it is that we are very very very arrogant/confidant |
| 22:10.25 | Zolden | all those ganza trading networks |
| 22:10.34 | ArcanePariah | Bounty, we are already there |
| 22:10.40 | Bounty | I know =P |
| 22:10.42 | ArcanePariah | Most americans already live paycheck to paycheck |
| 22:10.49 | ArcanePariah | Or live on credit |
| 22:10.52 | Bounty | but I don't think its what people think |
| 22:10.57 | Bounty | Its just that people don't have time |
| 22:11.11 | Bounty | and they would rather spend their lives with their family bc we all know they can barely do that lol |
| 22:11.28 | ArcanePariah | Correct, an old quote "Socialism never took root in America because people don't see themselves as poor and exploited, they see themselves as temporarily embarassed millionaries" |
| 22:11.29 | Bounty | thats why old people vote |
| 22:11.33 | Bounty | and watch the news |
| 22:11.38 | Bounty | they finally have time |
| 22:11.53 | ArcanePariah | Yeah well, they have time to exercise being fanatics.... |
| 22:12.13 | Zolden | lol |
| 22:12.14 | Bounty | Once the current older generation dies off, that will help. |
| 22:12.25 | Bounty | Will probably bury fox news lol |
| 22:12.25 | ArcanePariah | Either exercising the vote for a theorcracy or for a police state. |
| 22:12.31 | Bounty | since that is the majority of their viewer base |
| 22:12.34 | ArcanePariah | Yes probably will. |
| 22:12.39 | ArcanePariah | See Indiana for the results |
| 22:13.04 | Bounty | I don't vote because I can't force myself to vote for the lesser of two evils thing |
| 22:13.12 | Bounty | I would vote if there was an option of no confidence |
| 22:13.24 | Bounty | Get rid of the two candidates and bring me two new ones |
| 22:13.28 | Bounty | bc those guys suck |
| 22:14.04 | ArcanePariah | Correct, we are semi like Soviet Russia. You can vote, but only for the the Party approved candidate. |
| 22:14.18 | ArcanePariah | Really you have 2 choices, selected by oligarchs or party elites |
| 22:14.18 | Bounty | Yeah I never understood that |
| 22:14.22 | Bounty | like |
| 22:14.31 | Bounty | why can't all the people RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT... be voted for? |
| 22:14.40 | Bounty | They're running for president... three words |
| 22:14.45 | Bounty | why can't we vote for them? |
| 22:14.47 | Bounty | lol |
| 22:14.54 | ArcanePariah | Because direct democracy is not part of our government |
| 22:15.04 | ArcanePariah | Mind oyu, California does have direct democracy |
| 22:15.09 | Bounty | I don't give a fuck who has the most delegates >.< |
| 22:15.16 | ArcanePariah | We routinely pass laws without legislation |
| 22:15.31 | ArcanePariah | And our congressional elections effectively have no primaries anymore |
| 22:15.57 | ArcanePariah | But that is rare in the US, only like 6 states have this feature. |
| 22:16.52 | Zolden | ArcanePariah no one is like soviet or modern russia. You have working low and courts, free market, freedom for eveyone to do public politics, free media, easy ways to create business, smart taxes, low corruption, low economical crime, good infrastructure, nice people. You have everything russia haven't yet developed :) |
| 22:17.56 | Zolden | after all, some states ahve legalized marijuana |
| 22:18.00 | ArcanePariah | Zolden, I would agree up to a point. Our taxes are not smart, we legalzied corruption, not removed it. We have massive economic crime (2008, our banks fucked the world and they paid less then 50 billion in fines for it...). Our medic is owned entirely by 3 coroporations. |
| 22:18.08 | ArcanePariah | media* |
| 22:18.34 | ArcanePariah | Our infrastructure is ok, but falling apart, because we don't maintain it. Over the last year, I've had 4 water mains break near me. |
| 22:18.49 | ArcanePariah | Most of the civil infrastrcutre was built before my parents were born., |
| 22:19.11 | Bounty | lol we had one just outside our house this year as well ArcanePariah |
| 22:19.15 | Bounty | literally under our car |
| 22:20.54 | Zolden | russian infrastructure http://varlamov.me/2015/yaroslavl_shina/06.jpg |
| 22:21.59 | Bounty | Seems legit. |
| 22:22.11 | ArcanePariah | Interesting. I'll admit, infrastructure in the US varies wildly. Where I live isn't that bad, but your picture could easily be in Alabama. |
| 22:22.47 | Bounty | I think people fall victim to that whole "It could always be worse" thing |
| 22:22.57 | Bounty | So they just accept things. |
| 22:23.12 | Bounty | Not ever thinking that yeah, it could always be worse but that is ALWAYS the case lol |
| 22:23.20 | Bounty | doesn't mean you shouldn't want to improve something. |
| 22:25.51 | Zolden | there's climat's destructive pressing also. Many times during the year water turns into ice, and back to water. So the smallest crack grows rapidly. So, roads may need a repair once in 2-3 years. It's if the road was built good. Otherwise it doesn't survive spring + autumn |
| 22:26.30 | Zolden | for example now everything is covered by snow and ice. At day sun will mel some. Then it's -5 at night again |
| 22:27.07 | Zolden | while ROad built in Alabama will look ok for a decade |
| 22:28.23 | Bounty | As a great comedian whos name I cannot remember once said "How does someone elses suck make my suck suck less?" |
| 22:35.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster kritzikratzi (~kritzikra@cpe90-146-177-97.liwest.at) |
| 22:43.54 | anarch | Zolden: hows the program going? |
| 22:45.08 | Zolden | anarch very good |
| 22:45.24 | Zolden | anarch after I removed one "+", it exploded with evolution |
| 22:45.27 | Bounty | Check this out ArcanePariah, interesting read lol http://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/30ydn3/what_people_in_europe_japan_and_africa_thought_of/ |
| 22:45.32 | Bounty | Especially if its accurate. |
| 22:45.39 | anarch | what was the problem? how did the change effect it? i want to hear :D |
| 22:45.48 | Zolden | using output as velocity instead of acceleration, was the solution |
| 22:46.20 | Zolden | anarch did you get my buyild? don't run it, i'll give you another one, improved |
| 22:46.50 | anarch | i suppose they wouldnt have a way of understanding their speed otherwise. i wonder if alternatively, you may have been able to add the current velocity as an input node in the algorithm |
| 22:46.57 | anarch | i havent checked it out yey, ive been sick, stayed home today |
| 22:47.38 | Zolden | anarch they can use output as input, so it's there, they are aware of their velocity now |
| 22:47.55 | anarch | ok |
| 22:48.17 | Zolden | genes can use everything (but input) as outout, and everything as input |
| 22:48.31 | Zolden | anarch sec, sending you the actual version |
| 22:48.39 | anarch | ok |
| 22:49.25 | Zolden | ok, sent |
| 22:53.26 | anarch | its interesting to watch them |
| 22:53.37 | anarch | im going to let it run for a bit |
| 22:53.40 | anarch | and see how it changes |
| 22:54.04 | anarch | do all survivors have equal chance to reproduce? |
| 22:54.38 | Zolden | 40% of population reproduces, best one have higher chances |
| 22:54.50 | anarch | how does it decide which ones are best? |
| 22:55.15 | Zolden | time of being alive since population created |
| 22:55.34 | anarch | so at the end of the round, all survivors are considered equal, right? |
| 22:55.43 | Zolden | yea |
| 22:55.57 | anarch | its funny how i find myself rooting for them |
| 22:56.04 | Zolden | yea :) |
| 22:56.06 | anarch | "no no no go right you can make it!" |
| 22:56.22 | Zolden | yea, think the same when wataching |
| 22:56.26 | anarch | there seems to be a few who are especially clever |
| 22:56.47 | anarch | and a large number of adequate ones |
| 22:57.07 | Zolden | today I gave them about 3 or 4 hours, 500 generations passed, what I seen, I never seen in my previous evolution experiments |
| 22:57.24 | anarch | what were they doing? |
| 22:57.56 | Zolden | they were very agile, very precise, been using smallest possibility to survive |
| 22:58.12 | Zolden | like they realy see the obstacles and think how to avoid death the best |
| 22:58.21 | Zolden | they moved like T1000 from terminator |
| 22:58.30 | anarch | thats really neat |
| 22:58.45 | Zolden | super confident and precise, didn't do unnecesary moves |
| 22:59.04 | anarch | i wonder if you could have it save the state of the program and load it in the future so you could continue to have it progress between experiments if you wanted |
| 22:59.26 | Zolden | yes, I'll do it for more complicated experiments |
| 22:59.42 | Zolden | where the shape will be synthesised |
| 23:00.03 | Zolden | because phase space of possible solutions and strategies of survival will be much wider than this simple math |
| 23:00.30 | Zolden | this task is definitely too easy for this genome, there's no chance they fail |
| 23:00.51 | DeadZergling | lol at Africa's dissapointment: Africa: That they're not all rich, as expected. |
| 23:02.31 | anarch | i wish i better understood how this works in code |
| 23:02.44 | anarch | i understand the highlevel concept |
| 23:02.49 | Zolden | it works on a level higher than code |
| 23:02.58 | Zolden | code just operates arrays of structures |
| 23:03.17 | anarch | can you please explain it to me :) |
| 23:03.39 | Zolden | the genome architecture or the C# code? |
| 23:04.00 | anarch | lets start with the architecture. |
| 23:04.38 | Zolden | each gene is a function of 2 operands |
| 23:04.43 | Zolden | like x * y |
| 23:04.57 | Zolden | x and y are references to enzimes |
| 23:05.09 | Zolden | the result is also a reference to an enzime |
| 23:05.43 | Zolden | so, if we have x = 0.5, y = 0.5, and z = 0, z will gain 0.25 on each step |
| 23:06.04 | Zolden | so, after 4 steps, there's x = 0.5, y = 0.5, z = 1.0, and nothing happens |
| 23:06.40 | Zolden | some genes add the result to its target, some subtract |
| 23:07.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster draktok (4905a49f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.5.164.159) |
| 23:07.26 | Zolden | there are also 3 types of genes, so use X, some use 1 - X, and one more uses X - Z |
| 23:07.41 | draktok | Well I officially don't get it ... whenever I test my map, I can test all 30~ heroees and 0 issues , when i publish and test it - half the time the hero learns an ability, it doesn't work |
| 23:07.53 | DeadZergling | well down lines have no effect on the circles now, yet somehow they still think jumping into the wall is a good idea |
| 23:07.55 | draktok | as in the ability doesn't show up on the command card |
| 23:07.57 | draktok | annoying |
| 23:08.59 | anarch | Zolden: so if i understand correctly, does each gene have 2 inputs? |
| 23:09.01 | Zolden | draktok make screens, ask on forum. Now i don't see what's wrong with it and why |
| 23:09.12 | Zolden | anarch yes |
| 23:09.19 | draktok | there's not really a screen to make |
| 23:09.24 | draktok | it's just not showing up on the command card |
| 23:09.35 | draktok | also, maybe related, game doesn't have this issue tested on ptr, just live xD |
| 23:09.41 | Zolden | draktok is it simplified command card enabled? |
| 23:09.52 | draktok | guess i don't know |
| 23:09.55 | draktok | i haven't played on live |
| 23:09.55 | draktok | in |
| 23:09.56 | draktok | .. |
| 23:09.57 | draktok | decade |
| 23:10.05 | draktok | nah i did reinstall sc2 recently though |
| 23:10.07 | draktok | maybe reenabled |
| 23:10.09 | draktok | will check |
| 23:10.22 | Zolden | draktok you can affect player preferences by turning simplified command card off |
| 23:10.25 | DeadZergling | there is a way to disable simplified command card for everyone at start |
| 23:10.45 | DeadZergling | why not tell him where he goes Zolden, is your favorite place |
| 23:10.51 | Zolden | anarch so, a network of those genes just do their math every step |
| 23:10.51 | ArcanePariah | Yes, the action is Override Player Options |
| 23:10.52 | DeadZergling | to, TRIGGERS! |
| 23:11.18 | draktok | damnit triggers |
| 23:11.21 | draktok | also it's not enabled no |
| 23:11.24 | draktok | So bizzareo |
| 23:11.31 | draktok | let me laucn test some more times |
| 23:11.40 | draktok | otherwise i give up and i'm throwing this mpa in the recycle bin |
| 23:11.41 | draktok | again |
| 23:11.46 | Zolden | DeadZergling don't think there's anyone in this chat who never heard it. If they still in sc2 editor, it's their damn business |
| 23:12.07 | DeadZergling | oh, but you have very strong feelings about any use of triggers Zolden :) |
| 23:13.04 | draktok | yeah |
| 23:13.05 | draktok | idk |
| 23:13.12 | draktok | I just launch test, buy this hero, learn ability, it work |
| 23:13.17 | draktok | launch on live, learn same ability |
| 23:13.18 | draktok | doesn't work |
| 23:13.20 | draktok | weird :D |
| 23:13.30 | draktok | or rather, doesn't show up on command card |
| 23:13.36 | draktok | I technically have no idea if it works i guess |
| 23:13.53 | Zolden | DeadZergling you right, he should turn simplified command card off with data |
| 23:14.04 | anarch | Zolden: would i be correct in my understanding that most of the nodes get their inputs from other nodes, however, there is a set of nodes which have inputs directly from the sensors. i am guessing that each of these input nodes must take a signal from 2 different inputs, and there would be... |
| 23:14.13 | anarch | enough input nodes to cover every possible combination of 2? |
| 23:14.28 | draktok | well it doesn't matter cause simplified command card isn't the issue :^( |
| 23:16.19 | Zolden | anarch nodes are enzimes. They can have unlimited amount of genes connected. Some genes will use the value, some genes will affect. So, gene has 2 inputs and 1 outout to do math. Enzimes are targets of genes. Enzimes hold the values. Enzimes are like memory, and genes are like cpu. |
| 23:17.19 | anarch | so there are genes and enzymes in the network? |
| 23:17.29 | Zolden | yea |
| 23:17.39 | anarch | an input node would be an enzyme? |
| 23:18.26 | Zolden | yes, each input is enzime, each output is enzime too, so unlimited amount of incoming/outcoming genes connections are possible |
| 23:18.37 | Zolden | *enzyme |
| 23:19.05 | Zolden | it's a direct model of how real cells working |
| 23:19.37 | Zolden | genes make proteines, proteines affect genes' expression by regulating their speed of generation of genes |
| 23:19.44 | Zolden | *or proteines |
| 23:20.11 | Zolden | so, they create a huge ball of positive and negative feedbacks |
| 23:20.57 | Zolden | same math: gene has synthesis of a proteine speed, it can be positively or negatively affected by one or more other proteines |
| 23:21.18 | anarch | so in code, would an enzyme be a function. like: float Enzyme_Node(float x, float y) |
| 23:21.33 | anarch | which would do its maths and then output based on its inputs? |
| 23:22.04 | Zolden | enzime is a real value, can be in [0, 1] range |
| 23:22.28 | anarch | binary or anything between also |
| 23:22.34 | Zolden | there's array of enzymes, they do no math, just hold values |
| 23:22.49 | anarch | ok |
| 23:22.52 | Zolden | float |
| 23:23.02 | Zolden | between 0 and 1 inclusively |
| 23:23.27 | Zolden | genes reference enzymes in the array, it's simple |
| 23:23.55 | anarch | so does each creature have a single array of enzymes? |
| 23:24.02 | Zolden | yea |
| 23:24.15 | anarch | and that array only changes when they reproduce and mutate? |
| 23:24.19 | Zolden | it includes input ones, outout ones, and other ones created by genes |
| 23:24.35 | anarch | oh, i see |
| 23:24.38 | anarch | so the array does change |
| 23:24.42 | anarch | depending on the circumstance |
| 23:24.45 | Zolden | yes |
| 23:24.53 | anarch | and in fact it also acts as the sensors |
| 23:25.01 | anarch | since thats where the sensory information is kept |
| 23:25.16 | Zolden | genes define initial values and length of that array, but those values change dynamically 50 times a second |
| 23:25.30 | anarch | hey your experiment is starting to send some sideways obstacles |
| 23:25.32 | anarch | is that normal |
| 23:26.01 | Zolden | yes, it is |
| 23:26.04 | anarch | im guessing this is some type of phase 2 |
| 23:26.12 | Zolden | yea, 100 generations passed |
| 23:26.22 | Zolden | now there will be more obstacles and side ones too |
| 23:26.27 | Zolden | they will suffer, but evolve |
| 23:26.58 | anarch | some are getting pretty clever, moving right to dodge, then moving left to dodge another obstacle |
| 23:27.08 | anarch | not repeating the same motion |
| 23:27.14 | anarch | ok so anyways |
| 23:27.29 | anarch | when it comes time for each creature to make it's move |
| 23:27.45 | Zolden | yes, they evolve pretty fast. Earlier I waited 1000 generations to get but a primitive strategy. Now they have some complex strategies after 100 generations |
| 23:27.47 | anarch | i assume it has some type of function which determines its decision based on the enzymes |
| 23:28.27 | Zolden | yes, functions emerge as a sum of multiple genes' work |
| 23:29.50 | Zolden | oh, you mean how output is interpreted |
| 23:30.22 | anarch | well i understand enzymes as variables |
| 23:30.31 | anarch | but i dont yet understand how this system utilizes those variables |
| 23:30.31 | Zolden | yes, there are 4 output numbers, they are interpreted as velocity, x, -x, y, -y |
| 23:31.07 | anarch | so there is 1 or more iterations of some process that, based on the enzyme data, comes to establish 5 output variables as you have described |
| 23:31.15 | anarch | but i dont quite understand what this process is |
| 23:32.33 | Zolden | simple math, genes multiply 2 numbers and add the result with + or - sign to the third number |
| 23:32.57 | Zolden | z = (+ or -) x * y |
| 23:33.03 | Zolden | that's it, that's what a gene do |
| 23:33.09 | Zolden | this happens on each step |
| 23:33.20 | anarch | x and y would refer to an enzyme in the array? |
| 23:33.25 | Zolden | yea |
| 23:33.32 | anarch | ok its becoming more clear now |
| 23:33.53 | anarch | so does each creature have a bunch of genes... so it runs like a big process on its enzymes |
| 23:33.55 | Zolden | same happens in cells, right now, in your butt |
| 23:34.21 | Zolden | yes, each creature have 20 genes at start, they work parallelly |
| 23:34.51 | anarch | so it would be an oversimplification to imagine it something like: |
| 23:35.03 | anarch | CreatureUpdate(){ |
| 23:35.24 | anarch | foeach gene in genes {RunGene(gene)}; |
| 23:35.37 | Zolden | yea |
| 23:35.41 | Zolden | it's how it work |
| 23:35.59 | anarch | so each turn/frame whatever, it runs through basically an array of genes |
| 23:36.05 | Zolden | yea |
| 23:36.11 | anarch | which utilize and effect an array of data (enzymes) |
| 23:36.17 | Zolden | yea |
| 23:36.23 | anarch | and the result is that some of the enzymes end up modifies represenging the output |
| 23:36.28 | anarch | modified^ |
| 23:36.32 | Zolden | yeah |
| 23:36.57 | Zolden | CreatureUpdate(){ |
| 23:36.59 | Zolden | sense(); |
| 23:37.05 | Zolden | runGenes(); |
| 23:37.11 | Zolden | readOutput(); |
| 23:37.12 | Zolden | } |
| 23:37.58 | Zolden | sense writes to input enzimes, then after genes runned, outout enzimes are being read |
| 23:38.08 | anarch | i think the siumulation just hit phase 3 |
| 23:38.10 | Zolden | and then velocity = vector2 (output[0] - outout[2], output[1] - output[3]); |
| 23:38.21 | Zolden | what phase 3 do? |
| 23:38.21 | anarch | looks like it increased in intensity |
| 23:38.41 | Zolden | yes, during the simulation, the amount of felling obstacles increasing |
| 23:39.12 | anarch | so what about hte process for evolving the genes and the enzymes |
| 23:39.26 | anarch | when it reproduces, does it just have a chance of adding a gene with a random effect on the enzymes? |
| 23:39.40 | Zolden | first of all, it's 2 sex reproduction |
| 23:39.51 | Zolden | genes are divided to groups, loci |
| 23:40.21 | Zolden | each organism has 2 copies of genome, so each locus has 2 copies of the same gene |
| 23:40.44 | Zolden | so, there's... I forgot how it named in biology |
| 23:41.01 | Zolden | 1/2 of genome of each parent is being passed to the child |
| 23:41.15 | Zolden | so, each locus gives away first or second copy |
| 23:41.23 | Zolden | then mutations come |
| 23:42.00 | Zolden | mutations are different, just any kinds: add gene, remove gene, change locus, change enzimes references, cahnge initial values... don't remember all |
| 23:42.39 | Zolden | it's all trivial for classical genetic algorightms. Except the sexual reproduction part |
| 23:43.07 | DeadZergling | the circles seem to get much laggier as more generations go on |
| 23:43.21 | Zolden | not sure if anyone ever done it.. someone may have, but maybe 1% of evolution simulation researches do the sexual reproduction |
| 23:43.42 | Zolden | DeadZergling yes, bugger genes may take more time to be calculated |
| 23:43.47 | Zolden | *bigger |
| 23:43.53 | anarch | can you explain the part about how it may add enzynes. im not sure i understand how an enzyme could be added in a way that is relevant to it's behavior |
| 23:43.54 | Zolden | *genomes |
| 23:44.03 | DeadZergling | so they learn as terribly as humans do, lol |
| 23:44.51 | Zolden | anarch simple: if array of enzimes has 10 elements, and new gene references 11th, we have 11 enzimes now |
| 23:45.07 | Zolden | DeadZergling or your cpu is old |
| 23:45.20 | anarch | but how do genes know to reference the 11th enzyme? and what does it represent? |
| 23:45.28 | DeadZergling | it is lines and circles in a box |
| 23:45.31 | Zolden | DeadZergling ACtually it's my fault, I'm afraid, only one core is used out of your 4 or 8 core cpu |
| 23:45.34 | anarch | i guess it sort of becomes just a variable for the system to use as it wants? |
| 23:45.50 | anarch | and it wont be directly effected by the inputs |
| 23:45.59 | anarch | nor will it be directly read as output |
| 23:46.02 | Zolden | DeadZergling most of performance is consumed by their vision |
| 23:46.15 | DeadZergling | indeed, pre-collision detection? |
| 23:46.35 | anarch | thats that its doing |
| 23:46.47 | Zolden | anarch they have a choice to connect existing enzimes, or create a new one |
| 23:47.06 | anarch | you mean when mutating, right? |
| 23:47.22 | anarch | the new gene may refer to existing genes or a new one? |
| 23:47.24 | Zolden | DeadZergling something sc2 lacks. Raycast function. It's like a laser beam, that returns the object it points. |
| 23:47.35 | DeadZergling | lines been getting rude, keep ending up with a bunch of trapped little circles fucking in a corner, lol |
| 23:48.24 | anarch | yea i had 1 especially smart little guy who was killed unfairly by an obstacle flying up diagnol from below moving up and right, stabbed the more guy in the side :( |
| 23:48.27 | DeadZergling | raycast function, sounds like a search effect with radius 0 to me |
| 23:48.48 | Zolden | anarch new gene may referencing to existing ENZIMES or to just create the new one. They all jsut variables genes free to reference or not. They pick any. It can be input enzyme, output, o some inner one |
| 23:49.19 | DeadZergling | I'm not sure if Zolden's little fun shows more how evolution can work, or more how RNG is a bitch |
| 23:49.20 | anarch | Zolden: i see. |
| 23:49.46 | Zolden | DeadZergling yes, we can spam search effects along the line created by periodic offsets, it's ugly. Raycast does it simple way |
| 23:50.14 | Zolden | DeadZergling RNG created you |
| 23:50.27 | Zolden | sure it's bitch, she could give you bigger penis |
| 23:50.29 | DeadZergling | good thing it is a bitch then huh? |
| 23:50.30 | Bounty | I wonder if there are any genres of games that have yet to be discovered. |
| 23:50.49 | Zolden | Bounty yes, there are |
| 23:50.50 | anarch | sure there are |
| 23:51.09 | DeadZergling | if they can be thought of, there are :) |
| 23:51.10 | Bounty | Ones that are not a combination of pre-existing genres? |
| 23:51.25 | anarch | also this is neat, some of these guys are getting quite agile and making percise movements |
| 23:51.32 | Zolden | Bounty waht genre is not a combination of preexisting ones? |
| 23:51.48 | Bounty | FPS |
| 23:51.55 | Bounty | RTS |
| 23:52.07 | Bounty | I think thats about it lol |
| 23:52.13 | Zolden | ok, now tell me what genres they are based on |
| 23:52.24 | Bounty | They're not based on anything |
| 23:52.33 | anarch | rts was an iteration on turn based strategy? |
| 23:52.36 | DeadZergling | fps is 3d mario with guns |
| 23:52.40 | Bounty | Like, when I say new genre I am talking something akin to when Doom first came out. |
| 23:52.47 | Zolden | Bounty they are, jsut decompose them |
| 23:53.03 | Bounty | Well, yeah Zolden you can do that with anything lol |
| 23:53.06 | DeadZergling | doom was wolf 3d, only more awesome |
| 23:53.08 | Zolden | indeed! |
| 23:53.12 | Zolden | that's the point, Bounty |
| 23:53.24 | Bounty | but at some point you're more just making connections that shouldn't be made to meet your criteria. |
| 23:53.37 | DeadZergling | I think more labels can be made for certain types of games |
| 23:53.40 | Bounty | Like, Mario with Guns? lol |
| 23:53.57 | DeadZergling | but something that doesn't borrow anything from anything else? I don't know if that can actually happen. |
| 23:54.08 | Zolden | give mario laser, give turtles mirrorish shells, you got new genre |
| 23:54.10 | Bounty | I think that all of the camera angles have been discovered/used |
| 23:54.16 | Bounty | so its going to come down to mechanics. |
| 23:54.31 | DeadZergling | interesting you bring cameras up Bounty |
| 23:54.35 | Bounty | well, actually |
| 23:54.42 | Zolden | Bounty and some math, when we talk about resources |
| 23:54.43 | Bounty | a camera angle from below has not been done yet that I know of |
| 23:54.45 | DeadZergling | I sort of want to create a 4d game somehow |
| 23:54.51 | DeadZergling | it will be confusing as fuck, to me as well, lol |
| 23:54.58 | Bounty | That was what I was going to do for the contest DeadZergling |
| 23:55.03 | Bounty | Thats why Tessera is called Tessera lol |
| 23:55.12 | Bounty | short for Tesserect |
| 23:55.26 | Zolden | tesseRekt |
| 23:55.27 | DeadZergling | but making a meaningful 4th dimension, that is almost what genre is |
| 23:55.51 | DeadZergling | so maybe I want a 5d game, i dunno, lol |
| 23:56.08 | Bounty | Creating/simulating the 4th dimension can be done |
| 23:56.18 | Bounty | As Carl Sagan did it. |
| 23:56.20 | Zolden | 4d thor is made of 2 connected concentric spheres |
| 23:56.27 | DeadZergling | a 4th dimension can be coloring your char differently, Bounty |
| 23:56.45 | Bounty | this was the level layout for my 4D game https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3fhc3yfaddqfgb/Layout.png?dl=0 |
| 23:56.46 | DeadZergling | a dimension doesn't have to be something as grand as time |
| 23:56.54 | DeadZergling | to make it as 4 |
| 23:59.20 | Bounty | iirc 4th dimension is a direction that we cannot point to. |
| 23:59.39 | DeadZergling | then you don't rc |
| 23:59.50 | DeadZergling | is just a manner of how you think about it, Bounty :) |
