| 00:01.37 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli_ (~asdaaaaa@ip-109-40-17-96.web.vodafone.de) |
| 00:16.43 | Kazimir | *bothers ArcanePariah* |
| 00:16.51 | ArcanePariah | Sup? |
| 00:16.58 | Kazimir | I'm back :-P |
| 00:17.09 | Kazimir | Any ideas about the hanging attack wave stragglers? |
| 00:17.18 | Kazimir | I'm looking at it now and I don't see why |
| 00:18.58 | Kazimir | (In the meantime, I'm going to keep working on replacing all these damn cliffs) |
| 00:28.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip72-220-178-19.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 00:30.17 | Dustin|Work | Blarggg |
| 00:32.45 | Kazimir | Blarg indeed. |
| 00:33.06 | IskatuMesk | add waits? |
| 00:33.15 | IskatuMesk | attack waves are kind of weird without waits splitting them a bit |
| 00:37.05 | Kazimir | Trying a 5 second delay before the send first, then if I have to I'll add a wait |
| 00:42.06 | Kazimir | Hmm...they seem to be hanging in or near the same locations each time |
| 00:42.50 | Kazimir | Almost none of them actually reach their targets >.> |
| 00:42.59 | Kazimir | Most just stop somewhere nearby and hang around |
| 00:50.31 | rtschutter | Are a lot of people switching to trying to create their games in unity instead of the sc2 editor? |
| 00:52.31 | Kazimir | I'm developing in the Divinity engine at the same time |
| 00:53.46 | Dustin|Work | Yes rtschutter |
| 00:53.58 | Dustin|Work | Me, Zolden, GOA and some others |
| 00:54.35 | Kazimir | Unfortunate. The SC2 arcade is never going to stop stagnating at this rate :-( |
| 00:55.22 | rtschutter | My friends and I have also been making stuff in unity and gamemaker |
| 00:55.29 | rtschutter | but I mostly do my own stuff in sc2 editor still |
| 00:57.27 | Kazimir | I feel old. Many of my favorite game types have been going in directions I don't like, and I can't do a thing about it but shake my cane and curse at them. |
| 00:57.49 | IskatuMesk | I am old. All of my favorite game types long went in directions I didn't like |
| 00:57.50 | IskatuMesk | 2001ish |
| 00:58.20 | Kazimir | Special Forces 5 is utterly unenjoyable to me. Merchants 3: Empires was the best merchants, and the new one is crap. |
| 00:58.30 | Kazimir | I miss traditional TDs |
| 00:58.36 | IskatuMesk | and I haven't seen anything about sc2 that didn't indicate it wasn't stagnant from the get-go, seeing as the majority of maps on launch were still wc3 map clones |
| 00:58.37 | Kazimir | I play the crap out of Drizen |
| 00:59.06 | IskatuMesk | there was more noise, but that's about it |
| 00:59.14 | IskatuMesk | all the people interested in serious projects jumped ship pretty quick |
| 00:59.17 | Kazimir | On that note...Netforce2k4 (the guy who made Custom Castle Defense in wc3) gave me permission to do a SC2 sequel. That's what map I'm working on. |
| 00:59.53 | Kazimir | His was more base survival, this one is exploration, expansion, and randomized events. |
| 01:00.30 | Kazimir | Say what you will about the SC2 editor, it's damn good at making simple randomized events. |
| 01:00.34 | Dustin|Work | Ya all my projects are just for me and my friends to play on sc2 mainly |
| 01:01.06 | IskatuMesk | can't say it didn't have the potential to get close to brood war, though... a lot of big names did reappear briefly... but vanished just as quickly |
| 01:01.25 | IskatuMesk | I myself am just in denial |
| 01:01.32 | Kazimir | It doesn't help that blizzard fucked up the support for the editor. |
| 01:01.42 | Dustin|Work | I've already sunk too many years in SC2 editor learning to stop completely |
| 01:01.42 | IskatuMesk | stuck between being unable to make an actual game and being unable to fix sc2's many problems |
| 01:01.50 | Dustin|Work | Ill probably move on to Heroes of the storm editing soon |
| 01:01.52 | IskatuMesk | well, blizzard never supported custom content |
| 01:02.00 | IskatuMesk | anyone expecting them to support it was delusional |
| 01:02.05 | IskatuMesk | the big problem was using server-side hosting |
| 01:02.08 | Kazimir | No, but the old editor was relatively moddable |
| 01:02.12 | IskatuMesk | and delaying the release of their exporter |
| 01:02.17 | Kazimir | this one is a nightmare |
| 01:02.21 | IskatuMesk | that screwed all the big projects |
| 01:02.28 | Dustin|Work | Adding a plugin system for the editor would have been awesome |
| 01:02.35 | Kazimir | I'm STILL struggling to import WC3 models T-T |
| 01:02.35 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 01:02.36 | IskatuMesk | like NWN |
| 01:02.39 | Dustin|Work | so we could make our own things like Unit Creation Wizards and macro shit |
| 01:02.48 | IskatuMesk | seen blink... who was his name... blink-something's tool? |
| 01:02.50 | IskatuMesk | he psoted it on mapster |
| 01:02.59 | Dustin|Work | I dont think I have |
| 01:03.09 | IskatuMesk | I think it supports wc3 models |
| 01:03.15 | IskatuMesk | and the converting of them to sc2 |
| 01:03.32 | IskatuMesk | but I don't see anything in wc3 that is comparable to what I can get from other games, thoughg |
| 01:03.35 | Kazimir | It's not just extracting them, it's the entire process of getting them into the game and making them work right. |
| 01:03.37 | IskatuMesk | so I haven't looked personally |
| 01:03.41 | IskatuMesk | ah, that's easier |
| 01:04.02 | IskatuMesk | you'd need to remake the particles probably... but that's easy |
| 01:04.15 | Kazimir | I have an archer who's model was 10x the correct size, so I had to scale it down. The animations are now way too fast, so I had to fix that. Then the projectile speed was retarded slow.. |
| 01:04.18 | Kazimir | you get the idea. |
| 01:04.20 | IskatuMesk | normal maps and specular, also easy |
| 01:04.30 | IskatuMesk | yep... fairly simple stuff |
| 01:04.46 | IskatuMesk | process of getting one of these in is a bit more tedious https://i.imgur.com/Dh5hMfh.png |
| 01:04.56 | Kazimir | Simple, but when you are working alone and you need to get 50 of them done |
| 01:05.03 | Kazimir | then it gets old real friggin fast. |
| 01:05.13 | IskatuMesk | I am working alone and will need to do anywhere from 200 to 500 such conversions |
| 01:05.20 | IskatuMesk | on top of model 5 races worth of buildings and mechanical units |
| 01:05.30 | Kazimir | Oh, I was only talking about the ones currently in use. |
| 01:05.41 | IskatuMesk | I will also redo all of the tilesets in my ability to do, and all doodads I can find suitable replacements for |
| 01:05.41 | Kazimir | I'm probably going to end with about 300 myself. |
| 01:05.46 | IskatuMesk | aye |
| 01:05.49 | IskatuMesk | it's long and tiresome |
| 01:05.53 | IskatuMesk | but such is the price of quality |
| 01:06.01 | Kazimir | I'm paying to DOWNGRADE though. |
| 01:06.09 | IskatuMesk | I don't do the halfassed shit people do with conversions though |
| 01:06.14 | IskatuMesk | all these wow models with no normals and specular? psh. |
| 01:06.31 | IskatuMesk | fewer yet can configure their normals properly. They are all super glossy and such. |
| 01:06.51 | Kazimir | Update: Wait didn't help |
| 01:06.59 | Kazimir | Also, delay didn't either. |
| 01:07.03 | IskatuMesk | hmm |
| 01:07.11 | Kazimir | They still stop in the same location part way to the target |
| 01:07.12 | IskatuMesk | so what happens exactly |
| 01:07.13 | Kazimir | and just chill. |
| 01:07.14 | IskatuMesk | I see |
| 01:07.22 | Kazimir | SOME make it. |
| 01:07.25 | IskatuMesk | do you have any other triggers running related to the AI/orders |
| 01:07.57 | Kazimir | Nope. |
| 01:08.03 | IskatuMesk | unusual |
| 01:08.18 | IskatuMesk | have you tried using alliancecontrol or whatever it was to see their orders |
| 01:08.23 | Kazimir | It's always the same spots too. |
| 01:08.33 | Kazimir | No, how would I do that? |
| 01:08.34 | IskatuMesk | waypointed pathing failing for some reason |
| 01:08.44 | IskatuMesk | in test map or whatever, juist type alliancecontrol |
| 01:08.47 | IskatuMesk | I think it was |
| 01:08.52 | IskatuMesk | it's a hidden cheat |
| 01:09.34 | Kazimir | Ah, I see |
| 01:09.37 | Kazimir | test map cheats |
| 01:09.52 | Kazimir | Time to see |
| 01:10.57 | IskatuMesk | unfortunately all of my AI experiments have been in much more centralized environments and under normal melee conditions, and I haven't seen anything like that, so I can only make guesses |
| 01:11.13 | ArcanePariah | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7415511983 |
| 01:11.22 | ArcanePariah | Test Document Cheats |
| 01:11.41 | IskatuMesk | more forums need to use my monitor width |
| 01:11.47 | Dustin|Work | Omg |
| 01:11.51 | Dustin|Work | I forgot about these commands |
| 01:11.56 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 01:11.57 | IskatuMesk | they are handy |
| 01:11.58 | Dustin|Work | And there's one that runs a triggers?! |
| 01:12.00 | Dustin|Work | Fuck my life |
| 01:12.02 | IskatuMesk | hahaha |
| 01:12.05 | ArcanePariah | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/maps-and-mods/tutorials/actor/ |
| 01:12.10 | ArcanePariah | Actor Cheats as well |
| 01:12.11 | Dustin|Work | Bookmarked that shit |
| 01:12.17 | Kazimir | adds behaviors... |
| 01:12.18 | Kazimir | wow |
| 01:12.27 | ArcanePariah | facepalms |
| 01:12.56 | Dustin|Work | I remember when they released those, but I totally forgot about them much appreciated |
| 01:13.07 | ArcanePariah | How do you people work??? |
| 01:13.10 | Kazimir | Holy crap, the amount of stuff I've been making custom commands for... |
| 01:13.23 | Kazimir | I've made so many test units or debug versions of spells |
| 01:13.27 | Dustin|Work | Tediously... |
| 01:13.40 | ArcanePariah | Mother of god... |
| 01:14.03 | Bounty | what happened? |
| 01:14.29 | ArcanePariah | Also, IN game UI editor people, use it. Even though it can't save, you can change shit and then only need to edit your UI xml a tiny bit instead of change, reload, change, etc. |
| 01:14.31 | Dustin|Work | We got pwned by ArcanePariah's awesomeness |
| 01:14.40 | Bounty | http://i.imgur.com/ULEegzZ.gif |
| 01:14.48 | Dustin|Work | Yeah I need to start using the XML for my UI then |
| 01:14.56 | ArcanePariah | Well apparently, people completely forgot about all the tools Blizzard gives to modders.... |
| 01:14.57 | Dustin|Work | And why the fuck cant we save that shit yet lol |
| 01:15.19 | Kazimir | Ok, alliancecontrol shows that they are getting sent via MOVE (not even attack move) to random places along the path, then left there. |
| 01:15.36 | ArcanePariah | It isn't complete, but I'm fairly certain in Storm it is. You've seen how often they rearrange the storm in game and out of game UI |
| 01:15.44 | Dustin|Work | "We built this awesome tool to make shit easier, you can use it, BUT FUCK YOU YOU'RE NOT GONNA SAVE SHIT...have fun!" |
| 01:15.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli_ (~asdaaaaa@ip-109-40-17-96.web.vodafone.de) |
| 01:16.02 | ArcanePariah | Well, for debugging purpoess it is still fucking awesome |
| 01:16.16 | ArcanePariah | It can show you the anchors, so you can see what elements are related to what |
| 01:16.19 | Dustin|Work | Yeah I shoulda used it yesterday when I was fucking with UI positions |
| 01:16.50 | Dustin|Work | Woulda saved me like 30 game loads |
| 01:17.10 | ArcanePariah | ... lol |
| 01:17.24 | Kazimir | ArcanePariah, now you know why we are so bad at this. |
| 01:17.48 | Dustin|Work | Hey, im good, I just smoke too much pot to remember crap :P |
| 01:17.57 | Kazimir | I wish I could blame pot. |
| 01:18.16 | IskatuMesk | I haven't done anything in sc2 yet that requires actual effort to debug |
| 01:18.32 | IskatuMesk | I usually ended up stoppingbefore I reached that point haha |
| 01:18.52 | IskatuMesk | the problems I ran into were so fundamental it just rendered projects impossible |
| 01:19.05 | Bounty | Psh, nothing is impossible |
| 01:19.13 | IskatuMesk | plenty is |
| 01:19.17 | Bounty | but, don't quote me on that if something impossible actually happens |
| 01:19.33 | IskatuMesk | AO as a proper recreation is impossible, my TPS campaign was impossible due to performance problems and draw distance limitations, etc. |
| 01:19.48 | ArcanePariah | Everything is possible, but as the old saying goes "Good Fast Cheap, choose 2" |
| 01:20.03 | Bounty | There are ways to improve framerates in TPS |
| 01:20.07 | Kazimir | In design, it's called the Iron Triangle btw. |
| 01:20.11 | IskatuMesk | not when you need big scale |
| 01:20.21 | Bounty | Yes, when you need big scale |
| 01:20.48 | Kazimir | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/The_triad_constraints.jpg |
| 01:20.53 | IskatuMesk | well I concluded that for one, you couldn't use the normal terrain geometry |
| 01:21.00 | Bounty | DCUO used a sort of skybox for far off areas |
| 01:21.05 | IskatuMesk | and also the normal skybox is really buggy |
| 01:21.07 | ArcanePariah | Btw Dustin|Work the in game UI editor is another reason to make templates. Anything you create using dialogs in triggers are just drawing from the same templates |
| 01:21.15 | IskatuMesk | yeah, I had figured you could cubemap a skybox or something |
| 01:21.16 | Bounty | and when you got close enough, they showed |
| 01:21.35 | Bounty | would be a pain in the ass to line the models up with the skybox though |
| 01:21.43 | ArcanePariah | Which you can find in the UI editor as well, so if you really wanted to, you could override those templates and force all dialog items of a given type to be created in a certain way. |
| 01:21.56 | IskatuMesk | I'd just use fog for anything near skybox |
| 01:22.06 | IskatuMesk | get a good balance of distance and use a ton of big geometry |
| 01:22.15 | IskatuMesk | but it was really, really jumpy |
| 01:22.17 | IskatuMesk | even with no units |
| 01:22.25 | IskatuMesk | it freaking *hated* cliffs |
| 01:22.35 | Bounty | You need to hide terrain cells |
| 01:22.51 | Bounty | Terrain is more of an FPS hog than Doodads for some reason |
| 01:22.56 | IskatuMesk | well tell you what |
| 01:23.00 | IskatuMesk | if the RTS concept is a bust |
| 01:23.06 | IskatuMesk | you show me how to make a good TPS |
| 01:23.12 | Bounty | kk |
| 01:23.17 | IskatuMesk | my models would work well in either |
| 01:23.19 | ArcanePariah | Also, on the subject of moddability of the editor and making things easier. Blizzard did give us the tools, people just refused to use them. Namely, it would have been easy to create default data definitions of a ton of crap and shoved it all in a dependency and let anyone/everyone link against it. |
| 01:23.46 | ArcanePariah | Which I'm surprised no one ever really did. |
| 01:24.06 | Bounty | Nobody uses data ArcanePariah, cmon now. |
| 01:24.24 | ArcanePariah | Yes, I'm aware, such noobishness, what fail. |
| 01:24.27 | Kazimir | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1163241/RogueCraft/Screenshot2014-02-07%2015_35_22.jpg |
| 01:24.33 | Kazimir | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1163241/RogueCraft/Screenshot2014-02-12%2014_44_44.jpg |
| 01:24.42 | Kazimir | ^Don't talk to me about fucking skyboxes. |
| 01:24.47 | Kazimir | >.> |
| 01:24.56 | IskatuMesk | for a cave I' |
| 01:25.01 | IskatuMesk | I'd make a single big mesh |
| 01:25.06 | IskatuMesk | or rip the caves out of tera |
| 01:25.26 | Kazimir | Mine is entirely random generated. |
| 01:25.27 | Bounty | Well yeah its pretty easy to avoid a sky when you're in a cave. |
| 01:25.29 | Kazimir | Roguelike in a cave |
| 01:25.37 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:25.47 | IskatuMesk | my project is a campaign, so it'd be really simple to build a cave out of components for it |
| 01:25.57 | IskatuMesk | but most of it would be outdoors since you are blowing up 200km ships and shitr |
| 01:26.09 | Kazimir | It used terrain morphing to create the areas, invisible blockers to make the morphs have substance, and shitty rocks stretched to make a roof |
| 01:26.31 | IskatuMesk | can the health bar graphics be changed? |
| 01:26.36 | IskatuMesk | I always found them ugly as hell in a tps |
| 01:26.52 | Bounty | I just disable them |
| 01:26.54 | Kazimir | Probably. You can change just about anything visually |
| 01:27.00 | IskatuMesk | that would be my plan probably, yeah |
| 01:27.01 | Bounty | and use dialogs |
| 01:27.02 | Kazimir | some take more work than others. |
| 01:27.10 | Bounty | You can attach dialogs to units |
| 01:27.34 | Bounty | its a bit funky because its never centered properly, have to use offsets |
| 01:27.38 | IskatuMesk | I wonder if meaningful melee combat can be done in sc2 in a tps |
| 01:27.59 | Bounty | what do you mean by meaningful? |
| 01:28.07 | IskatuMesk | I haven't seen a good rendition of it yet |
| 01:28.09 | IskatuMesk | something like DMC |
| 01:28.24 | Bounty | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmLeRfblQe8 |
| 01:28.34 | ArcanePariah | Health bar graphic can be changed globally, or changed on a per unit basis. In the unit actor, you can specify a UnitStatusBar frame in UI and it will use that in place of the standard one |
| 01:28.45 | ArcanePariah | See Kerrigan in the Swarm campaign for an example |
| 01:29.34 | IskatuMesk | the next thing to figure out would be hit recovery mechanics |
| 01:29.41 | Bounty | That was made in about a day, just expand on that and yeah, you're good. |
| 01:29.44 | Kazimir | Iskatu, ministuns. |
| 01:29.56 | IskatuMesk | that seems to be the case yeah |
| 01:30.14 | IskatuMesk | hmmm |
| 01:30.16 | IskatuMesk | gives me a few ideas |
| 01:30.20 | IskatuMesk | we'll see how things pan out |
| 01:30.27 | Bounty | If you wanna get more in depth, you can make combos |
| 01:30.40 | Bounty | So, LC, LC, RC does X |
| 01:30.47 | Bounty | lots of stuff you can do |
| 01:30.53 | Kazimir | Easiest way to make combos is to give a set of skills that enable other skills |
| 01:30.57 | IskatuMesk | I would still need good RTS AI for my concept |
| 01:31.07 | IskatuMesk | because I would employ my living world concept I experimented with in wc3 |
| 01:31.13 | Kazimir | so if you cast Q, you now have Q2, W2, E2, R2 as available skills |
| 01:31.14 | IskatuMesk | but it wouldn't need to be AS good |
| 01:31.25 | Bounty | Actually, the way I did it was that I just recorded each keypress lol |
| 01:31.32 | Bounty | and when someone entered a combo |
| 01:31.34 | Bounty | execute |
| 01:31.57 | Bounty | and have it reset after X amount of seconds |
| 01:32.08 | IskatuMesk | the reason why I'd make it melee (or non-targeted range) is to avoid the whole collision and tracking bullshit of a cursor people have issues with |
| 01:32.27 | Kazimir | Eh, as a player I'd prefer to be able to string them together without entering them in advance |
| 01:32.32 | Bounty | 3D shooting is a bitch |
| 01:32.36 | Kazimir | yes, yes it is. |
| 01:32.47 | Bounty | It really impacts latency from what I've seen |
| 01:32.50 | IskatuMesk | but yeah, this would be a mix of an actionbar + combos |
| 01:32.55 | ArcanePariah | It always is :D |
| 01:32.55 | Bounty | Not worth it |
| 01:32.59 | IskatuMesk | this would be a campaign, so no latency |
| 01:33.09 | Bounty | Which is why I went the route I did with Tessera, 1 shot 1 kill |
| 01:33.15 | Bounty | no extra latency |
| 01:33.25 | Bounty | ah |
| 01:33.26 | ArcanePariah | It has been interesting reading some of the tricks/lies to make shooters work over a network |
| 01:33.38 | IskatuMesk | of course, boss AI would be even more paramount, but I think tactical AI would be doable |
| 01:33.40 | Bounty | Well if its offline, there are systems on mapster for tracelines |
| 01:33.52 | Bounty | Wouldn't matter if its offline |
| 01:34.08 | Bounty | Yeah.. AI for a 3D shooter... have fun with that |
| 01:34.25 | Bounty | Could go the ghetto route and just have it be RNG lol |
| 01:34.32 | Bounty | roll dice = hit |
| 01:34.32 | IskatuMesk | that';s why it would be best to have it melee-oriented |
| 01:34.53 | IskatuMesk | the hit recovery shit would need to be VERY carefully thought out |
| 01:34.59 | IskatuMesk | most arpgs do it horribly |
| 01:35.05 | Bounty | or have it based off how far the player has traveled in X,Y and Z axis |
| 01:35.10 | IskatuMesk | I might go off of something like blazblue for designing that |
| 01:35.12 | Bounty | don't move? you get hit son |
| 01:35.36 | IskatuMesk | or be largely ability driven |
| 01:35.37 | Bounty | Yeah, hit recovery is more important than the offensive mechanics IMO |
| 01:35.46 | Bounty | Makes it feel like a real fight |
| 01:35.54 | IskatuMesk | I would have to make it condition-based, I think. Lots of buffs and shit built into your various attack types |
| 01:36.07 | IskatuMesk | to break defenses and get a stun combo rolling |
| 01:36.24 | Bounty | If our Kickstarter gets funded, since we're doing a Smash Bros + Power Stone style fighter with Blizzard characters, we will be facing this issue as well |
| 01:36.34 | IskatuMesk | longer attack cast times on some shit with AI notify flags |
| 01:36.38 | Bounty | Can share afterwords if you're still needing help |
| 01:36.43 | IskatuMesk | so you generally will only be able to bait them or stun them into it |
| 01:36.50 | IskatuMesk | yeah, as I said, we'll have to see how things go |
| 01:37.06 | IskatuMesk | it all depends on how far jade can take the AI |
| 01:37.45 | Bounty | Yeah, we're not going to have an AI |
| 01:37.52 | Bounty | Unless we can afford to pay someone to make one lol |
| 01:38.00 | IskatuMesk | AI will be absolutely critical for this |
| 01:38.07 | IskatuMesk | but it can be a mix of tactical AI and autocast shit |
| 01:38.09 | Bounty | Yeah, its SP right? |
| 01:38.12 | IskatuMesk | yep |
| 01:38.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster greybeard (46435739@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.67.87.57) |
| 01:38.21 | IskatuMesk | ARPG's universally rely on a brilliant AI |
| 01:38.25 | IskatuMesk | most try to cheap their way out of it |
| 01:38.27 | IskatuMesk | makes it rubbish |
| 01:38.30 | Bounty | I mean, what I did for the Haunted Forest AI was made her literally like a Magic 8 Ball |
| 01:38.32 | IskatuMesk | DMC has a fairly decent, if not simple AI |
| 01:38.40 | Bounty | and people swear shes smart |
| 01:38.43 | greybeard | anyone play ogre battle 64? |
| 01:38.47 | IskatuMesk | the key is for it to be mobile and aggressive |
| 01:39.03 | IskatuMesk | aggressive is easy in sc2 |
| 01:39.04 | Bounty | Yeah, thats what I set the AI in HF up for Iskatu |
| 01:39.07 | IskatuMesk | mobile... not sure yet |
| 01:39.09 | Bounty | and I just used conditions and dice rolls |
| 01:39.40 | IskatuMesk | the big problem with doing a TPS, is the abilities and everything become monstrously more complex than an RTS |
| 01:39.44 | IskatuMesk | and I wouldn't be able to do any of it |
| 01:39.58 | Bounty | You could do a 2D TPS? |
| 01:40.03 | Bounty | In the sense that you can only shoot in 2D |
| 01:40.13 | Bounty | Like Star Ocean |
| 01:40.13 | IskatuMesk | it would be melee-only for the player I think |
| 01:40.16 | IskatuMesk | but yeah |
| 01:40.19 | IskatuMesk | projectiles might just be 2d |
| 01:40.29 | Bounty | 2D projectiles are the shit lol |
| 01:40.34 | IskatuMesk | even so, I don't even know how to make a basic non-targeted frontal cleave atm |
| 01:40.39 | Dustin|Work | I have a topdown shooter that I use skillshots in 2d basically |
| 01:40.42 | Bounty | easy on the player and easy on the system |
| 01:40.57 | IskatuMesk | I wouldn't be able to have seriously complex gameplay like DMC, but I could make it as fast as DMC I think |
| 01:41.09 | IskatuMesk | more about the moves you use and their traits than the position |
| 01:41.18 | IskatuMesk | so, 2d projectiles, frontal cleaves, etc |
| 01:41.26 | IskatuMesk | certain attacks might have different hit radii |
| 01:41.29 | IskatuMesk | different range |
| 01:41.38 | IskatuMesk | different stun length |
| 01:41.43 | Bounty | The only restriction (Especially if you're going single player/offline style) is models and animations |
| 01:41.47 | Bounty | and thats it |
| 01:41.55 | IskatuMesk | yeah. Well, I have some options there |
| 01:42.14 | IskatuMesk | if I can work movement into melee attacks, all of the tera and bless models become usable. |
| 01:42.25 | IskatuMesk | if not, I can use lineage 2, wow, etc |
| 01:42.30 | IskatuMesk | which I'll use anyways for mobs |
| 01:42.48 | Bounty | how do you plan on extracting wow models? |
| 01:42.52 | IskatuMesk | winmpq |
| 01:42.56 | Bounty | from what I understand, wowmodelviewer is broke |
| 01:42.58 | IskatuMesk | same way I always did it |
| 01:43.01 | Bounty | ah |
| 01:43.07 | IskatuMesk | I never used that for converting them |
| 01:43.12 | IskatuMesk | you don't get normals, particles, etc. from that |
| 01:43.25 | IskatuMesk | the only way to do it is through 3ds max, and do it the right way |
| 01:43.27 | Bounty | I only extracted character/creature models |
| 01:43.34 | Bounty | so many animations lol |
| 01:43.43 | IskatuMesk | I already have a few fully converted examples with custom shit, but nothing I will show yet |
| 01:44.21 | Bounty | If I can't extract the wow models myself, going to have to pay our modeler more |
| 01:44.24 | IskatuMesk | wow models need their textures to be regraded to look any good |
| 01:44.26 | Dustin|Work | This is why the arcade sucks, people like this requesting shitty bw maps to be remade. http://puu.sh/bENaL/6c8697c100.png |
| 01:44.30 | IskatuMesk | too bright and washed out |
| 01:44.42 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 01:44.48 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:44.51 | IskatuMesk | I've wanted DBZ models for a while... nothing I can rip from yet, though |
| 01:45.15 | Dustin|Work | Ugh DBZ based WC3 games were the worst |
| 01:45.18 | IskatuMesk | I think there is a harry potter game that uses Unreal, though |
| 01:45.25 | IskatuMesk | I am definitely going to be pulling out those models |
| 01:45.27 | Bounty | Am I the only one who gets the same feeling after watching something from the 90's as I do when seeing something like that? |
| 01:45.28 | Dustin|Work | Only good DBZ game is Earth Special Forces the HL Mod |
| 01:45.54 | ArcanePariah | Dustin|Work, I agree, it seem like SOOO many people wanted to just remake WC3 games. Funny enough, for DotA 2... same damm thing. Also I find it funny that valves custom game browser is the exact same setup as Arcade (popularity, popularity is first page, etc.) |
| 01:46.09 | Dustin|Work | Yeah I know right! lol so dumb |
| 01:46.10 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 01:46.13 | IskatuMesk | really? |
| 01:46.15 | Bounty | btw Dustin, we hired Delphinium |
| 01:46.15 | IskatuMesk | they didn't learn? |
| 01:46.17 | IskatuMesk | too bad |
| 01:46.17 | Bounty | as our modeler |
| 01:46.19 | Dustin|Work | Oh nice! |
| 01:46.27 | Dustin|Work | Dont think ive seen many of his models |
| 01:46.28 | Bounty | very interesting guy, he pretty much wanted no money |
| 01:46.32 | IskatuMesk | he made me a few things |
| 01:46.34 | ArcanePariah | Outstanding, you lucky dog. |
| 01:46.36 | IskatuMesk | he is pro |
| 01:46.43 | IskatuMesk | I hope he can make me some more in the future |
| 01:46.55 | Dustin|Work | Yeah I know he's a real cool dude, thats awesome |
| 01:46.55 | IskatuMesk | he is my sole source for good vehicles and such right now haha |
| 01:46.59 | Bounty | we're going to give him our entire 3D modeler budget but he never asked for money |
| 01:47.01 | Bounty | which was odd |
| 01:47.02 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:47.11 | IskatuMesk | if he can make characters |
| 01:47.17 | Bounty | and yeah, hes a good fit |
| 01:47.24 | IskatuMesk | I would consider asking him to make high quality characters for black sun |
| 01:47.26 | Bounty | since 80% of the models we need will be for the Kart Racer. |
| 01:47.30 | IskatuMesk | and put them in the UDK and go broke for retribution |
| 01:47.37 | Bounty | nah we're not making character models |
| 01:47.39 | IskatuMesk | but they are tough |
| 01:47.43 | IskatuMesk | so I dunno if he could do it |
| 01:47.45 | Bounty | custom animations yes |
| 01:47.49 | IskatuMesk | but he can sure as hell make good vehicles |
| 01:48.00 | Bounty | yeah |
| 01:48.05 | Bounty | and he can do animations |
| 01:48.06 | Dustin|Work | Just let me know when you get all the info ready and want to make the kickstarter page bounty |
| 01:48.10 | Bounty | which is all we need |
| 01:48.13 | IskatuMesk | I could manage superior particles now I think, so I hope to grab the max files from him |
| 01:48.21 | Bounty | we're getting close |
| 01:48.45 | Bounty | we MIGHT need to hire a backup video editor/logo animation person |
| 01:48.50 | Bounty | our current one is slacking |
| 01:48.56 | Bounty | for the KS video |
| 01:49.02 | Bounty | if anyone is interested? |
| 01:49.14 | IskatuMesk | I can edit video but not like what you want |
| 01:49.17 | ArcanePariah | IskatuMesk, yeah, if you pull up custom games for DotA 2 within steam, you get Most Popular for this week as default. You can browse by Most Popular, Top Rate All Time, Most Recent, and Accpeter for Game (in that order) You can filter the popularity thing by week or by today |
| 01:49.19 | Dustin|Work | I havent done video editing since like 2007 |
| 01:49.26 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 01:49.27 | IskatuMesk | that is funny |
| 01:49.34 | Dustin|Work | their system is weird too |
| 01:49.36 | Bounty | We mainly want someone to do a logo animation sequence |
| 01:49.47 | IskatuMesk | ask Crainy |
| 01:49.55 | Dustin|Work | It uses the steam workshop, so you have to subscribe to the maps before you're able to join or create them in game |
| 01:50.06 | Bounty | He probably hates me |
| 01:50.08 | IskatuMesk | rofl |
| 01:50.10 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:50.12 | IskatuMesk | I hate steam workshop tbh |
| 01:50.27 | IskatuMesk | it's just there to be there |
| 01:50.46 | IskatuMesk | I really just preferred the way wc3 did things |
| 01:50.51 | IskatuMesk | I guess I am old fashioned |
| 01:50.56 | Dustin|Work | I wish I woulda got into making CS go weapon skins with the steamworkshop |
| 01:50.59 | Dustin|Work | Easy money |
| 01:51.07 | IskatuMesk | cs go needs to support custom models |
| 01:51.10 | IskatuMesk | the way they shafted that game is silly |
| 01:51.15 | ArcanePariah | Well, we could go back to WC3, but I'm not sure I would like it, since Ads suck :P |
| 01:51.23 | IskatuMesk | ads? |
| 01:51.24 | Dustin|Work | Eh, custom models would be bad for the competitiveness |
| 01:51.27 | IskatuMesk | just hack the client |
| 01:51.28 | IskatuMesk | haha |
| 01:51.32 | IskatuMesk | nah |
| 01:51.34 | IskatuMesk | worked fine for source |
| 01:51.35 | Dustin|Work | You need to be able to tell a weapon by model silouhete |
| 01:51.52 | IskatuMesk | they have something called enforced consistency that models have to adhere to or they get rejected by the server |
| 01:52.07 | Dustin|Work | and all the newbies would get confused at which weapon people actually have and stuff |
| 01:52.10 | IskatuMesk | the reason they fucked models in go was so they could force people to use their workshop skin thing and make moeny off of it |
| 01:52.29 | IskatuMesk | as if the game was like source no one would use the workshop since many communities had already been established |
| 01:52.47 | IskatuMesk | it kind of sucks |
| 01:52.49 | Dustin|Work | Eh, CS maps are a big thing too |
| 01:52.52 | IskatuMesk | source had a lot of super talented modelers |
| 01:52.53 | Dustin|Work | Which use the workshop |
| 01:53.08 | Dustin|Work | Making CS 1.5 maps with Hammer was the shit |
| 01:53.13 | IskatuMesk | I always wanted to get into modeling for it but the process always turned me off |
| 01:53.30 | IskatuMesk | in much the saame way I could never get used to hammer |
| 01:53.38 | IskatuMesk | but the last time I tried to use it was when source first came out |
| 01:53.58 | IskatuMesk | I found unreal a lot more to my liking |
| 01:54.02 | IskatuMesk | just don't know programming haha |
| 01:54.30 | Dustin|Work | Unity would be more up your alley than Unreal then :P |
| 01:54.40 | Dustin|Work | Unreal is like straight C++ or some shit |
| 01:54.40 | IskatuMesk | unity's DRM is a no go for me |
| 01:54.59 | ArcanePariah | Hmm? |
| 01:55.00 | IskatuMesk | unreal has kismet and unreal 4 has blueprints which you can use in the stead of uscript |
| 01:55.13 | Dustin|Work | Oh ya I forgot they switched shit up in the new engine |
| 01:55.24 | IskatuMesk | I haven't actually seen blueprints yet though |
| 01:55.26 | Dustin|Work | Blueprints seemed weird to me tohugh |
| 01:55.32 | IskatuMesk | but kismet was something I planned to get into if sc2 fell through |
| 01:55.42 | Dustin|Work | I looked at them wheni t was released, was just something different than the norm |
| 01:55.58 | IskatuMesk | I need to learn programming anyways though |
| 01:56.05 | IskatuMesk | it's just a mandatory skill for me at this point |
| 01:56.20 | IskatuMesk | I failed at graphics and audio is kind of a useless skill, I need to be able to actually do things |
| 01:57.02 | IskatuMesk | kinda hoped galaxy would be my ticket... boy was I wrong haha |
| 01:57.42 | Dustin|Work | you can learn some good programming fundamentals even using the GUI tool |
| 01:57.46 | ArcanePariah | ^ |
| 01:57.47 | IskatuMesk | I much prefer level design and shit like that |
| 01:57.51 | Dustin|Work | Basic loop and varaible structure |
| 01:57.52 | IskatuMesk | I can take random crap and make it look good |
| 01:57.56 | IskatuMesk | and make levels feel good to be in |
| 01:57.57 | ArcanePariah | Much of software design has nothing to do with programming or even coding |
| 01:58.01 | IskatuMesk | I just need to be able to go the extra step |
| 01:58.09 | IskatuMesk | well, I can't even read code atm |
| 01:58.26 | ArcanePariah | That's my point, a great deal of software does not involve code at all |
| 01:58.28 | IskatuMesk | you can't do software design without knowing the code |
| 01:58.32 | ArcanePariah | Err |
| 01:58.39 | ArcanePariah | Other way around |
| 01:58.40 | Dustin|Work | You sure can, it's all basic logic |
| 01:58.49 | IskatuMesk | knowing the logic of how something works doesn't make it actually work, you still need to create it |
| 01:58.53 | Bounty | Any of you apply to that Blizz position? |
| 01:58.55 | ArcanePariah | Can't code without knowing design. |
| 01:59.00 | Bounty | For the Assistant |
| 01:59.01 | Dustin|Work | that's all syntax at that point |
| 01:59.07 | IskatuMesk | yeah. syntax always gets me |
| 01:59.17 | IskatuMesk | the unexpected thing with sc2 was how it re-runs its code every tick |
| 01:59.19 | ArcanePariah | IskatuMesk, true, but if you can't desing, you will write awful code. Syntax can be gotten around, bad design can not be |
| 01:59.28 | IskatuMesk | that is fundamentally unlike all other games I've worked with so far |
| 01:59.33 | Dustin|Work | once you know what you want to do, and what the system is capable of, you can lookup syntax to convert your 'psuedocode' to actually functional code |
| 01:59.56 | IskatuMesk | I think generally my logic is sound, I've just never been tested with it |
| 01:59.57 | Bounty | I think I am a good example of this conversations topic |
| 02:00.05 | IskatuMesk | I did "psuedocode" with iscript in brood war, triggers in wc3, etc. |
| 02:00.07 | Bounty | Brute force. |
| 02:00.14 | Bounty | >.< |
| 02:00.17 | IskatuMesk | but actual code is unreadable for me |
| 02:00.26 | Dustin|Work | Ya, bounty is a horrible coder, but he applies logic and bruteforces syntax to make it work |
| 02:00.35 | Bounty | ^ |
| 02:00.42 | Bounty | can't argue that |
| 02:00.45 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:00.46 | Dustin|Work | hehe |
| 02:01.23 | IskatuMesk | http://pastebin.com/MJbr4Dhc |
| 02:01.30 | IskatuMesk | most advanced code I've ever worked with |
| 02:01.59 | Bounty | For me, not only is the sky the limit, but it is also representative of the length of some of my code. |
| 02:02.08 | IskatuMesk | sincerely wished sc2 could do the kind of stuff this does |
| 02:02.12 | IskatuMesk | but by now I' |
| 02:02.16 | IskatuMesk | I've forgotten everything about it |
| 02:02.32 | Dustin|Work | wtf is that lol |
| 02:02.38 | IskatuMesk | brood war animation script |
| 02:02.39 | Dustin|Work | Looks like a combo of C++ and a JSON file |
| 02:02.42 | IskatuMesk | this controls how units work in sc1 |
| 02:03.01 | IskatuMesk | you can do things in here blizzard never dreamed of |
| 02:03.07 | IskatuMesk | but it's hardcoded all to hell |
| 02:03.15 | Dustin|Work | Yeah that's more or less a database of pointers and commands, not really any logic or code behind it lol |
| 02:03.20 | IskatuMesk | yep |
| 02:03.29 | ArcanePariah | I imagine they dreamed of it, but by blizzard own admission, sc1 was amateur hour |
| 02:03.29 | IskatuMesk | the logic is all in how you manage the hardcoded jumps |
| 02:03.34 | IskatuMesk | how you make things behave |
| 02:03.40 | ArcanePariah | ... that sounds like shitty abstracted assembly |
| 02:03.47 | ArcanePariah | slits wrists |
| 02:03.50 | Dustin|Work | Yeah this is interesting... |
| 02:03.50 | IskatuMesk | hahaha |
| 02:03.52 | IskatuMesk | probably |
| 02:04.01 | Dustin|Work | I want a full SC1 source repo plx |
| 02:04.04 | IskatuMesk | but in sc2 you can't do what this does. Frame by frame control |
| 02:04.06 | Dustin|Work | Need to investigate |
| 02:04.12 | IskatuMesk | make units do waht you want to do exactly when you want |
| 02:04.16 | IskatuMesk | within the limits, of course |
| 02:04.17 | Bounty | Zomg, Arcane is attempting suicide guys... |
| 02:04.19 | Dustin|Work | Cause SC2 isnt a 2d engine where that's doable :P |
| 02:04.24 | IskatuMesk | indeed |
| 02:04.25 | ArcanePariah | & |
| 02:04.27 | ArcanePariah | ^ |
| 02:04.37 | IskatuMesk | 3d is such a waste... sigh... :( |
| 02:05.01 | Bounty | 4D is the future. |
| 02:05.01 | ArcanePariah | Ermm... no 3d = no camera controls |
| 02:05.03 | greybeard | if(ArcaneIsDead){Sc2MapperPrime = Pirate;} |
| 02:05.05 | IskatuMesk | well, I may feel better in unreal when I can work with real volumes |
| 02:05.12 | ArcanePariah | lol greybeard |
| 02:05.19 | IskatuMesk | no one uses cameras for anything besides parkinsons simulation, though. |
| 02:05.21 | Dustin|Work | They are gonan release Warcraft 4 next year, but it's going to be 2D |
| 02:05.41 | Dustin|Work | lol I'd laugh my ass off if blizzard released a new SC or WC in 2d |
| 02:05.47 | IskatuMesk | it would be great |
| 02:05.47 | Dustin|Work | would fuck with peoples minds to much |
| 02:05.49 | IskatuMesk | sc2 should have been 2d |
| 02:05.49 | ArcanePariah | if(ArcaneIsDead){Sc2MapperGod = Arcane; SC2MapperPrime = Pirate;} FTFY |
| 02:05.58 | Bounty | positive of negative laughter Dustin? |
| 02:06.01 | IskatuMesk | sc2 gained nothing from being 3d |
| 02:06.08 | Bounty | or* |
| 02:06.18 | IskatuMesk | wc3 alpha could have been interesting though |
| 02:06.25 | IskatuMesk | wanted to see where that would have gone |
| 02:06.32 | Bounty | I was SC1 3D? sure looked it to me back in the day. |
| 02:06.42 | Bounty | Looked like 3D clay animation |
| 02:06.43 | IskatuMesk | nah |
| 02:06.49 | IskatuMesk | maybe something like age of wonders 2 |
| 02:06.51 | Dustin|Work | 3d models saved as Sprites |
| 02:06.55 | greybeard | learn 2 sprites yo |
| 02:07.00 | IskatuMesk | sc1 originated as 3d yes, as most sprites do |
| 02:07.02 | IskatuMesk | but it wasn't actually 3d |
| 02:07.16 | Bounty | Did Age of Empires 2 do the same thing? |
| 02:07.19 | IskatuMesk | yep |
| 02:07.24 | Bounty | ah |
| 02:07.35 | Bounty | fooled me |
| 02:07.39 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:07.42 | Dustin|Work | lol |
| 02:07.48 | Dustin|Work | 3d was just coming out back then |
| 02:07.53 | Dustin|Work | N64 BLEW MY MIND |
| 02:08.21 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 02:08.27 | IskatuMesk | I remember star fox being considered gorgeous |
| 02:08.36 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/kSo72TE.jpg |
| 02:08.40 | IskatuMesk | sprites mang |
| 02:09.00 | greybeard | http://i.imgur.com/E73oiKg.jpg |
| 02:09.31 | Dustin|Work | Oh ya I guess they did have some 3d on SNES, Starfox used some vector 3d shit, I know there was a racing game that was like the first true 3d game on the snes |
| 02:09.50 | Dustin|Work | Can't remember what it was called, but the wheels were not actually attached to your racer and all the cars had eyes and shit |
| 02:09.57 | greybeard | dafuq |
| 02:10.00 | IskatuMesk | the age when developers tried to push the limits |
| 02:10.04 | IskatuMesk | and really, really had to know their shit |
| 02:10.04 | Bounty | I remember argugin with my brother about PS1 vs N64 cinematics and I used the coin flip cinematic in Madden 64 as my argument. |
| 02:10.12 | Bounty | arguing* |
| 02:10.17 | greybeard | rock n roll racing? |
| 02:10.34 | Dustin|Work | No rock n roll was 2d |
| 02:10.40 | Dustin|Work | Damnit what was it called... |
| 02:10.46 | Bounty | Paper Mario for N64 still holds up as well if you use an emulator. |
| 02:11.08 | Dustin|Work | http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/2/0/5/51205_front.jpg |
| 02:11.10 | Dustin|Work | STUNT RACER |
| 02:11.25 | Bounty | the fuck Dustin, never heard of that |
| 02:11.33 | Dustin|Work | It was awesome back in the day |
| 02:11.46 | Bounty | I played Battle Cars |
| 02:11.57 | greybeard | oh, and there was that claymation fighting game |
| 02:12.01 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/gh14vcM.jpg |
| 02:12.10 | Dustin|Work | Yeah I have EMUS for SNES, NES, n64, Gameboy Advance and on up |
| 02:12.12 | Bounty | http://nuangel.net/newspix/battlecarssnes.jpg |
| 02:12.23 | Dustin|Work | But on those i have basically every english game released downloaded for them |
| 02:12.26 | Bounty | With the snowman right greybeard? |
| 02:12.42 | Dustin|Work | Clay fighters was like Killer Instinct, models were made in 3d and saved as sprites |
| 02:12.57 | Bounty | http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091104202005/clayfighter/images/6/6e/ClayfighterSNES.jpg |
| 02:13.11 | Bounty | Ah yes, the Taffy man |
| 02:13.31 | Bounty | would like to see that game on modern PC/Consoles |
| 02:13.53 | Dustin|Work | Ya, fighters have dropped of significantly |
| 02:14.02 | Dustin|Work | Killer Instinct was my fav snes game |
| 02:14.12 | Bounty | Only one that has not is Smash Bros |
| 02:14.30 | Dustin|Work | Many a nights I would have a friend sleep over and him and my dad and me would all have a KI tournament and stay up all night playing |
| 02:14.42 | Dustin|Work | Ya, Smash is fucking awesome |
| 02:14.54 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli_ (~asdaaaaa@ip-109-40-17-96.web.vodafone.de) |
| 02:14.54 | Bounty | Personally, my friends and I's favorite fighter was Destrega |
| 02:14.58 | Bounty | which nobody knows about |
| 02:15.02 | Bounty | for some reason |
| 02:15.05 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/pGn7pe9.jpg |
| 02:15.37 | IskatuMesk | all the crazy effects I made in sc1. hopefully I can redo them in 3d |
| 02:15.56 | Dustin|Work | Never heard of that one Bounty |
| 02:15.57 | Bounty | Best fighter of all time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnvQn_AWblw |
| 02:16.19 | Bounty | It will play a part in the development of our fighter, if our KS is successful |
| 02:16.22 | Dustin|Work | Oh shit, it looks like Erhgiez |
| 02:16.30 | Dustin|Work | The one with the FF7 people |
| 02:16.37 | Bounty | yeah |
| 02:16.41 | Bounty | but its projectile based |
| 02:16.47 | Dustin|Work | I woulda loved that game |
| 02:17.03 | Bounty | emulate it |
| 02:17.05 | Bounty | holds up |
| 02:17.25 | Bounty | Was a new franchise so it had no chance lol |
| 02:17.29 | Dustin|Work | Ill have to try it out this weekend |
| 02:17.39 | Bounty | very good game with friends |
| 02:18.02 | Bounty | also, I forgot about erhgiez lol |
| 02:18.36 | Dustin|Work | So I booted up SC1 last week and played the only surviving sc map I made, man I loved this map |
| 02:18.36 | IskatuMesk | that is certainly a different one |
| 02:18.49 | IskatuMesk | never seen a fighter like that before |
| 02:19.06 | Bounty | Its amazing IskatuMesk |
| 02:19.16 | Bounty | Will be part of one of our KS games |
| 02:19.25 | Bounty | Will be that + Power Stone + Smash Bros |
| 02:19.42 | IskatuMesk | latency would not be kind to a game like that |
| 02:19.53 | IskatuMesk | even the LCD/wireless latency is too high for blazblue |
| 02:19.54 | Bounty | of course, just have to handle it properly... easy :) |
| 02:20.20 | Bounty | Latency on bnet is no better than Call of Duty on Xbox, its just that you visually see it |
| 02:20.24 | Bounty | and feel it |
| 02:20.35 | Bounty | So, you develop systems to compensate. |
| 02:20.37 | IskatuMesk | yeah but no one serious about games plays call of duty or xbox |
| 02:20.49 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:21.06 | Bounty | The point is, fun will override any small delay |
| 02:21.08 | greybeard | ehhhh except the latency is inherent in the sc2 multiplayer engine |
| 02:21.16 | IskatuMesk | if you want the cod crowd this is how you get it |
| 02:21.21 | IskatuMesk | add camera shaking and lense flares |
| 02:21.23 | IskatuMesk | instant win |
| 02:21.31 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:21.31 | greybeard | also consider: hats |
| 02:21.35 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 02:21.50 | Bounty | I will add that as one of our donor rewards greybeard |
| 02:21.50 | IskatuMesk | and achievements |
| 02:21.55 | Bounty | $5,000 = Hat |
| 02:22.31 | Bounty | btw, how did patreon work out for you greybeard? |
| 02:23.38 | Bounty | or are you not one of pirates many names? |
| 02:24.45 | Dustin|Work | Yes that's pie rat |
| 02:25.07 | greybeard | oh, it went absolutely nowher |
| 02:25.09 | Dustin|Work | http://thestroogle.com/assets/images/pieratflag.jpg |
| 02:26.03 | Bounty | Maybe talk to Blizz about promoting your patreon? |
| 02:28.00 | greybeard | ehh, I'm not working on my games as much I was |
| 02:28.12 | greybeard | still working in Resistor, just slowly |
| 02:28.35 | greybeard | I would rather get a job with Heroes :P |
| 02:29.06 | Bounty | lol true |
| 02:29.10 | Bounty | I figured that. |
| 02:31.17 | Dustin|Work | Man tonight is draggin at work |
| 02:49.59 | Bounty | word |
| 05:32.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster TwoDie (~rita@78-56-27-236.static.zebra.lt) |
| 05:52.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster Blub\w (~wry@unaffiliated/blubw/x-6625061) |
| 07:54.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin|Work (~Dustin@ip72-209-140-214.ks.ks.cox.net) |
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| 09:44.15 | *** topic/#sc2mapster is http://sc2mapster.com | http://wiki.sc2mapster.com | sc2mapster bnet2 channel | WCS Partnership for eSports g0g0! | We want your broken maps! http://bit.ly/aU9AgC | This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 12:14.33 | Rommper | hey |
| 12:20.05 | TwoDie | why you need always to come here and make loud noises?~!?!?!?! |
| 12:21.08 | Rommper | to make you ask questions like this!!44!!!iii!!i4! |
| 12:40.51 | TwoDie | 5 |
| 12:59.36 | OneDie | 6 |
| 13:18.22 | OneDie | Do you still working on warcraft styled models TwoDie? |
| 13:19.38 | TwoDie | currently thats on halt for 6 months already. cant say about the future state for this activity |
| 13:24.02 | OneDie | it seems you are good with structure models from your thread. We have a few warcraft related structure models made from scratch for the mod, but our artist busy as hell (and will be for a long time) and i'm looking for someone who could finish them |
| 13:24.39 | Rommper | would you be interested in sg like that? |
| 13:45.00 | TwoDie | OneDie there may be interest but real question is if Im wouldnt be so lazy to finish or make models.. |
| 13:47.53 | Rommper | we have like 6-7 models |
| 13:49.58 | Rommper | wc3 styled human Town Hall+ Keep, Barrack ; Wc1 styled Orc Town Hall (two version), Temple and a pig farm which similar to the wc2 style one |
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| 13:53.03 | Rommper | also we have a peon portrait |
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| 15:30.46 | Bounty | TIL that heart stress tests are INTENSE lol |
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| 16:54.41 | rtschutter | Does anyone know if it is possible to make it so you cannot drag items around in an inventory? |
| 16:58.47 | TwoDie | nannanannananannananannanan |
| 16:58.49 | TwoDie | batmna |
| 16:58.50 | TwoDie | batman |
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| 17:43.13 | Rommper | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRlokbOelfg |
| 17:46.06 | ArcanePariah | rtschutter, directly, no. But what you can do is have a trigger to do it |
| 17:46.21 | ArcanePariah | By forcibly swapping the item back to its former position |
| 17:49.11 | ArcanePariah | This is what it would be: http://peeeq.de/gui.php?id=3519 |
| 17:58.51 | Rommper | hey ArcanePariah |
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| 18:32.14 | TwoDie | somewhere stoopid |
| 18:33.01 | Ahli | the end is near http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/15951562 |
| 18:34.19 | TwoDie | beginning didnt even occur for me |
| 18:34.46 | TwoDie | and script is empty imbetween |
| 18:37.14 | Ahli | Wonder Billie , what the f*ck is that, 'mericans? |
| 18:40.16 | Rommper | hope they will start the beta finaly |
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| 18:47.51 | rtschutter | Does anyone ever run into this bug where the UI editor wont save certain changes you have made? |
| 18:48.16 | rtschutter | Also thanks Arcane |
| 18:48.32 | TwoDie | yes |
| 18:48.39 | TwoDie | known stuff year ago. |
| 18:48.46 | rtschutter | is it known to Blizzard? |
| 18:48.51 | rtschutter | is there a work around? |
| 18:48.54 | TwoDie | just backup your txt to file |
| 18:49.08 | TwoDie | and make changes to text file and then copy to UI screen |
| 18:49.17 | TwoDie | or |
| 18:50.08 | TwoDie | after you made all changes in that UI screen and ready to close. Few times time in shit and delete those letters to overwrite stuff |
| 18:50.14 | TwoDie | but this may not 100% work |
| 18:52.15 | rtschutter | hmm |
| 18:52.18 | rtschutter | not working for me |
| 18:52.47 | rtschutter | I made a video of the issue so I could show them and hopefully get them to fix it, but I still need to find a work around to do what I want in the mean time |
| 18:53.14 | TwoDie | i may reported that and Ahli may stumble around it |
| 18:54.53 | rtschutter | I bet you can get around it by just working with the xml files directly |
| 18:55.07 | rtschutter | but I dont understand the point of the UI editor if we are forced to do that |
| 18:56.12 | TwoDie | well its broken a bit too much for this moment to be as built in text editor for UI |
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| 19:08.23 | Ahli | rtschutter, if compiling f*cked up due to rights (file in use, etc) then you need to copy+paste the code into it again |
| 19:08.46 | Ahli | best use of the UI editor: only read and copy paste stuff into it, don't write stuff within it |
| 19:09.02 | rtschutter | I tried copy/pasting |
| 19:09.04 | rtschutter | it did not work |
| 19:09.05 | Ahli | sometimes it shows you your new code, but it still uses the old one |
| 19:10.21 | Ahli | link me the video, maybe I can tell you what I'm doing different >_> |
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| 19:10.40 | rtschutter | well the video is not of copy/pasting |
| 19:10.48 | rtschutter | it is just of using it to modify values |
| 19:10.51 | rtschutter | as a demo to blizzard |
| 19:12.08 | Ahli | btw, Blizzard's devs might discuss the publishing limitations due to me throwing the thread at them. I shortly discussed that stuff with the top EU CM |
| 19:12.32 | rtschutter | publishing limitations? |
| 19:12.37 | rtschutter | size/quantity? |
| 19:12.46 | Ahli | slots/size limits |
| 19:12.51 | rtschutter | that would be nice |
| 19:12.54 | rtschutter | I am running out of slots |
| 19:12.58 | rtschutter | ...on my three accounts |
| 19:13.26 | rtschutter | and most of my stuff is less than 100kb |
| 19:13.54 | ArcanePariah | It would not entirely surprise me if Blizzard flat out removed the UI editor in the editor and switched to just using the in game UI editor |
| 19:13.58 | Ahli | oh, so I should have mentioned you as you most likely use the most slots, it seems |
| 19:14.10 | Ahli | I would hate that move, lol |
| 19:14.27 | Ahli | that would be like removing xml view in data |
| 19:14.35 | ArcanePariah | Sure, but if the in game UI editor was complete, it would be vastly superior. |
| 19:14.36 | ArcanePariah | True |
| 19:14.56 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so they won't remove it, but I wouldn't be surprising if they stop caring about it. |
| 19:15.08 | Ahli | some copy-pasting jobs will be incredibly faster in code instead of clicking sh*t together |
| 19:15.29 | ArcanePariah | Question, why are you copy pasting, when you have that wonderful attribute called template? |
| 19:15.57 | Ahli | because of random bugs with links not overriding properly after the template |
| 19:16.24 | Ahli | or just linking 50 slots after each other |
| 19:16.24 | ArcanePariah | template means you should be able to use a template for anything, even using your own stuff as templates for other UI elements if needed. |
| 19:16.30 | ArcanePariah | Ahh yeah |
| 19:16.40 | ArcanePariah | In which case, yeah, copy paste is inevitable |
| 19:17.43 | rtschutter | best to just save your doc as a folder and mod the xml files directly I think |
| 19:19.16 | rtschutter | okay well I sent them the video and the mod I was working with in the video |
| 19:19.23 | rtschutter | hopefully it at least gets added into their system |
| 19:19.34 | rtschutter | though I suspect it wont be high priority so it will be awhile before it gets fixed |
| 19:23.32 | Nytemare | I'm baaaaaaaack |
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| 19:30.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster mille25 (5b2be88c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.43.232.140) |
| 19:30.12 | mille25 | hi :d |
| 19:30.20 | ArcanePariah | Hey |
| 19:30.36 | Nytemare | Hi! |
| 19:30.38 | mille25 | first week of practical semester done! :D |
| 19:31.06 | mille25 | and as always it started with a total shock looking at the existing code. |
| 19:33.27 | mille25 | switch statements over 3000 lines and countless magic numbers have been spotted. :D |
| 19:37.04 | Nytemare | ArcanePariah, I've been observing the hanging attack wave behaviours. It looks like the AI isn't acting fast enough to command that many units. |
| 19:37.28 | ArcanePariah | Then you need to raise the APM, it can be set as part of the initialization |
| 19:37.32 | Nytemare | kk |
| 19:40.30 | TwoDie | nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga |
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| 19:42.22 | Nytemare | Ok, so it's not the APM. It looks like it might be dumping older units as it creates new attack waves. |
| 19:45.40 | Nytemare | Correction, using alliancecontrol to move them causes them to GO BACK to the spot they were stuck at. |
| 19:46.02 | Nytemare | aaand now one is attacking a tree. |
| 19:46.04 | Nytemare | what the hell. |
| 19:46.53 | Nytemare | I have waypoints entirely disabled atm |
| 19:46.59 | Nytemare | these locations are being chosen by the AI |
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| 19:55.47 | Ahli | "20:37AhliWonder Billie , what the f*ck is that, 'mericans?" Yerman news translated it to be a goat |
| 20:03.50 | rtschutter | hey ahli |
| 20:03.56 | rtschutter | I am trying to add an image into the minimap panel |
| 20:04.03 | rtschutter | and it is constantly showing up on top of the minimap |
| 20:04.09 | rtschutter | even though it has a lower render priority |
| 20:04.12 | rtschutter | any ideas? |
| 20:10.18 | Frinckles | Is anyone decent with imagery/alpha channels? |
| 20:16.50 | Ahli | HDR mode, rtschutter |
| 20:16.57 | Ahli | HDR always below LDR |
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| 20:17.23 | rtschutter | how do I switch it? |
| 20:21.07 | IskatuMesk | cheese grater |
| 20:23.12 | IskatuMesk | jademus must have accidentally tripped up his own anus again |
| 20:23.15 | IskatuMesk | haven't seen him for a while |
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| 20:33.41 | rtschutter | lol Arcane |
| 20:33.51 | rtschutter | this trigger doesn't work because it triggers itself |
| 20:33.55 | rtschutter | hmmm |
| 20:53.46 | Ahli | do you still need to know how to switch it or did you just look it up in the ingame UI editor (because everything is there)? |
| 20:56.34 | rtschutter | I still need to know though I ended up just moving it into its own frame |
| 20:56.39 | rtschutter | so its fine |
| 21:03.44 | Ahli | it should be <RenderMode val="HDR"> if I remember it correctly |
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| 21:19.21 | rtschutter | thanks |
| 21:19.29 | rtschutter | oh he left |
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| 21:48.18 | Dustin|Work | Suppp |
| 21:53.40 | ArcanePariah | What's up? Another long slow day at work for you I bet :P |
| 22:23.03 | Dustin|Work | Yup :( |
| 22:31.16 | Nytemare | I love california sometimes. I just got 3 dozen donuts for putting on a pirate hat and doing a jig. |
| 22:31.35 | Nytemare | Everything is for sale here. Especially your dignity. |
| 22:37.17 | IskatuMesk | yay another video encode |
| 22:37.23 | IskatuMesk | slowly making the progress |
| 23:07.43 | Zolden | Nytemare what about mexican crime in cali |
| 23:08.02 | Nytemare | What about mexican crime in mexico? |
| 23:08.18 | Nytemare | I'm more worried about crackheads than the cartel. |
| 23:08.33 | Nytemare | Around here meth is a pretty big deal too, and it's all white folks. |
| 23:11.00 | Zolden | philip dick would be satisfied |
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| 23:42.53 | greybeard | yarr, it be me day |
| 23:43.21 | Dustin|Work | Arrrrr me matey! |
| 23:54.54 | Nytemare | Did ye get yer free doughnuts? |
| 23:55.36 | Dustin|Work | There's free doughnuts?! |
| 23:57.48 | Lajjla | rtschutter, my sources tell me that you are flamboyantly homosexual, where do you stand on this issue? |
| 23:58.23 | Dustin|Work | He stands on top of it |
| 23:58.33 | IskatuMesk | rides it like a pony |
| 23:58.39 | IskatuMesk | yeehaw motherfuckers |
| 23:59.30 | greybeard | I be not knowin bout free doughnuts |
| 23:59.48 | greybeard | it be in'ernational speak like 'o pirate day |
