| 00:04.19 | Dustin_Hendricks | Well you need to, I think you'd enjoy it. |
| 00:05.31 | JademusSreg | I'd play it if if given a key or such. =D |
| 00:05.40 | IskatuMesk | you are a key |
| 00:05.45 | JademusSreg | So true. |
| 00:06.07 | Dustin_Hendricks | Lol if I hadnt just bought a new car and signedu p for medical insurance yesterday I'd give ya one :P |
| 00:07.18 | JademusSreg | I've heard good things, but I rule over my budget spreadsheets like a fiscally-conservative culturally-libertine tyrant. |
| 00:07.43 | Dustin_Hendricks | The bay version works good with SP and MP ;) |
| 00:07.52 | Dustin_Hendricks | tried it out before I bought it |
| 00:07.56 | IskatuMesk | so, jadey, you didn't explain dat texture swapping |
| 00:08.09 | JademusSreg | Ah, you mean via actor shit, right? |
| 00:08.12 | IskatuMesk | yam |
| 00:08.26 | JademusSreg | Cool, I've got a demo demonstrating it, so we can walk through it. |
| 00:09.05 | JademusSreg | The oft-linked JademusDemo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/JademusDemo.SC2Map |
| 00:09.53 | IskatuMesk | I see something called texture sets |
| 00:10.50 | JademusSreg | First we'll cover explicit texture swapping with Texture Select By Blahblah, since it's more complicated. |
| 00:11.09 | JademusSreg | Unless you already are familiar with it. |
| 00:11.34 | IskatuMesk | nope |
| 00:11.40 | IskatuMesk | I only started using the editor yesterday |
| 00:11.44 | JademusSreg | Fun. =D |
| 00:12.26 | JademusSreg | First, let's go to the actor tab and fine Ancillary Drone unit actor. |
| 00:12.32 | JademusSreg | *find |
| 00:13.16 | IskatuMesk | yep, I see it |
| 00:13.24 | JademusSreg | It uses a colossus model, but looks quite different thanks to attachments and texture swappin's. |
| 00:13.58 | JademusSreg | Switch to XML view so we can ignore a bunch of shit. |
| 00:14.20 | JademusSreg | See <On Terms="ActorCreation" Send="TextureSelectById AncillaryDrone_Normal"/> and <On Terms="ActorCreation" Send="TextureSelectById AncillaryDrone_Specular"/> |
| 00:14.51 | JademusSreg | To help make sense of this weird bullshit, next we go to the model data entry for Ancillary Drone. |
| 00:15.12 | JademusSreg | Also in XML view, we see TextureDeclares. |
| 00:15.25 | JademusSreg | prefix="colossus_" |
| 00:16.33 | IskatuMesk | is that just looking for something with those words in it |
| 00:16.35 | JademusSreg | Followed by subelements Adaptations with TriggerOnSubstring and a slot, whatever. And this alone doesn't make much sense without seeing the model assets data in the cutscene editor, but I'll spare you that loading and describe it. |
| 00:17.42 | JademusSreg | Colossus.m3 has textures "Colossus_Diffuse" "Colossus_Specular" and so forth. |
| 00:17.56 | JademusSreg | One for each of those in the adaptations. |
| 00:18.18 | JademusSreg | The way it works is rather simple. |
| 00:19.15 | JademusSreg | Each prefix in a TextureDeclares attempts to match a texture starting with the value (and it can even contain the entire value, then you have a TextureDeclares per texture, haha). |
| 00:19.54 | JademusSreg | And the TriggerOnSubstring attempts to match to the texture string which matched colossus. |
| 00:20.39 | JademusSreg | It can become more convoluted with many differently named textures, but it's all pretty simple. |
| 00:21.00 | JademusSreg | Now for the other part of this shit, open a Textures data tab. |
| 00:22.13 | JademusSreg | Immediately we see a bunch of AncillaryDrone_ texture data entries, which corresponds to the actor event stuff. |
| 00:23.24 | IskatuMesk | I don't see anything that explicity links diffuse to diffuse or emissive to emissive amidst all this |
| 00:24.03 | IskatuMesk | if the textures tab already determines the slot and the actor events activate it, how does the model data interact with that? |
| 00:24.15 | JademusSreg | The ids match, and it determines which textures on the model asset are swapped thanks to the slot. |
| 00:25.15 | JademusSreg | The choice of slot is ultimately arbitrary, though main supports little appended terms for convenience. |
| 00:25.50 | JademusSreg | So you could have a slot Hair and replace a demon testicle texture, whatever. =D |
| 00:26.00 | JademusSreg | For an overview... |
| 00:26.00 | IskatuMesk | I don't see any id categories either |
| 00:27.23 | IskatuMesk | god damn this heat is insane |
| 00:28.03 | JademusSreg | Model data defines which model asset textures are declared and which slot corresponds to which adaptation. Then the actor data can send its message, select a Texture data entry by id, and replace the texture with a texture matching the slot of the adaptation. |
| 00:29.02 | IskatuMesk | but the names of the model data main substrings don't match the names of anything else |
| 00:29.24 | IskatuMesk | there are underscores in front of them |
| 00:29.33 | IskatuMesk | does it just ignore those when it comes to knowing what is what? |
| 00:29.40 | JademusSreg | Overlap. =D |
| 00:29.44 | IskatuMesk | wut |
| 00:30.12 | JademusSreg | Colossus_Diffuse matches the prefix "colossus_" and it matches substring "_diffuse". |
| 00:30.27 | IskatuMesk | yeah... but those just assign it to "main"... they don't know what is main.emissive from that |
| 00:30.30 | JademusSreg | The underscores don't even need to be on both. |
| 00:30.47 | JademusSreg | Ah, well, that's a funny feature of the main texture slot. |
| 00:31.32 | IskatuMesk | it's demonically possessed? |
| 00:32.00 | JademusSreg | Now for a similar example, which will further demonstrate this feature, go to model data, find Rock Tower (Liberty version, in case there are others). |
| 00:32.19 | JademusSreg | In XML view, you'll notice it does the same weird thing as my data. |
| 00:32.47 | JademusSreg | Same prefix and substring with overlapping underscore approach, and main slot. |
| 00:34.29 | JademusSreg | Then we locate its actor actor, and in XML view, we see it autofocused on the Swarm.SC2MNod dependency source tab, so we click on Liberty.SC2Mod to see its original data. |
| 00:34.50 | JademusSreg | And here we find the TexSets elements. =D |
| 00:36.22 | JademusSreg | And it looks like a deadend, since the array of texture sets aren't actually doing anything. |
| 00:36.35 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 00:36.50 | JademusSreg | No worries, of course, open the console, use the browse command. |
| 00:38.28 | JademusSreg | Lemme know when you're there. |
| 00:38.33 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 00:38.42 | IskatuMesk | I am here, amidst the sea of garbled letters |
| 00:38.49 | JademusSreg | In the shitty search filter, enter rocks_ |
| 00:39.13 | JademusSreg | And click on File Path to sort. |
| 00:39.37 | Deaod | btw, https://github.com/ladislav-zezula/CascLib |
| 00:39.37 | JademusSreg | Now we see how the silly TexSets work. |
| 00:39.50 | JademusSreg | Thanks Deaod, badass. |
| 00:39.56 | Deaod | not my work |
| 00:40.01 | JademusSreg | I'm aware. |
| 00:40.03 | IskatuMesk | blizzard's textures look like they were resized from 128x128 |
| 00:40.35 | IskatuMesk | oh god. |
| 00:40.44 | IskatuMesk | rocks_diffuse_tarsonis |
| 00:40.47 | IskatuMesk | that's just offensive |
| 00:41.00 | JademusSreg | Yeah, pretty awful, but do you recognize the pattern? How it simply appends the texture set id to thetexture declares and adaptations in the mode data? |
| 00:41.09 | IskatuMesk | that is literally a cellphone texture of a 64x64 google image search texture that got resized |
| 00:41.43 | IskatuMesk | you just confused me with your terminology |
| 00:41.50 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 00:41.52 | IskatuMesk | but I presume you mean to say it is taking the suffix names |
| 00:42.00 | JademusSreg | Sure. |
| 00:42.56 | IskatuMesk | www.gameproc.com/meskstuff/LP/rocks_diffuse_tarsonis.dds |
| 00:42.58 | IskatuMesk | look at that |
| 00:43.07 | IskatuMesk | that's even worse than the terrain textures I was talking about earlier |
| 00:43.22 | IskatuMesk | I've seen some disgusting things in my life, that has to be amongst the worst |
| 00:44.37 | IskatuMesk | jade really knows how to slip me shock images |
| 00:44.47 | JademusSreg | If you had a custom terrain texture set Rectum, then when the RocksTower actor is in that texture set or otherwise commanded to switch to it, it would attempt to find textures "rocks_diffuse_rectum" and "rocks_specular_rectum" and "rocks_normal_rectum" but sadly not "rocks_emmisive_rectum". |
| 00:45.44 | phil__ | just a funny: http://i.imgur.com/nWD5L1x.png |
| 00:45.47 | IskatuMesk | why would the one actor have all of them defined though |
| 00:45.58 | phil__ | was explaining to my brother the separation of units/actors/models |
| 00:46.03 | phil__ | and ran across that tattoo haha |
| 00:46.12 | JademusSreg | So terrain adaptations, supar easy, and since you can just force them to use any of their sets anyway, you effectively have as many skinned variations as you want. |
| 00:46.24 | IskatuMesk | how do you force them? |
| 00:46.39 | IskatuMesk | I am going to have to rename all of my textures for this |
| 00:47.08 | JademusSreg | In the terrain editor, if you place a Rock Tower doodad, then ciick, press enter or double click whatever, it brings up its properties. |
| 00:47.37 | JademusSreg | Which contains a field for setting which texture set to use. |
| 00:47.38 | IskatuMesk | also if my textures are all spec, norm, etc will that work |
| 00:47.45 | IskatuMesk | instead of the full names |
| 00:47.52 | JademusSreg | Sure, if its configured correctly, probably. |
| 00:49.06 | IskatuMesk | that feel when the editor searches for every letter input |
| 00:49.41 | IskatuMesk | I thought that didn't happen anymore but it's still doing it |
| 00:50.04 | JademusSreg | Yep, just found examples which use your naming convention, it's safe. |
| 00:50.18 | JademusSreg | Example Assets\Textures\rockex1_diff_agria.dds |
| 00:50.41 | JademusSreg | Those are the Swarm rocks which aren't complete garbage. =D |
| 00:51.22 | IskatuMesk | to be clear, the prefix is local right |
| 00:51.23 | JademusSreg | Wings of Lobstery rocks had horribad wraps. |
| 00:51.31 | IskatuMesk | yes, yes they do |
| 00:51.38 | IskatuMesk | that's why I am replacing all of them |
| 00:51.40 | JademusSreg | Clarify "local". |
| 00:51.45 | IskatuMesk | local to the model |
| 00:51.50 | JademusSreg | Yeah. |
| 00:52.42 | IskatuMesk | my changes produced invalid xml |
| 00:52.43 | IskatuMesk | halp |
| 00:53.11 | JademusSreg | Anyway, can even use multiple materials for all the different parts of the same model asset to selectively show/hide geometries, like the colonists. |
| 00:53.16 | JademusSreg | Ah, haha. |
| 00:53.21 | IskatuMesk | I copy pasted those model tab entries to my rock and renamed some stuff |
| 00:53.24 | IskatuMesk | now it's throwing a fit |
| 00:53.38 | JademusSreg | Paste the error message vebatim. |
| 00:54.12 | IskatuMesk | I figured it out |
| 00:54.15 | IskatuMesk | I hate tags. |
| 00:55.26 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 00:55.30 | IskatuMesk | hmm... I see no texture sets tab |
| 00:55.56 | JademusSreg | Terrain Data > Terrain Types. |
| 00:56.30 | IskatuMesk | those rock actors are referring to this? |
| 00:56.50 | JademusSreg | Yep, they adapt. =D |
| 00:56.52 | IskatuMesk | I thought these were for terrain |
| 00:56.57 | JademusSreg | Yep. |
| 00:56.58 | IskatuMesk | alright |
| 00:57.12 | JademusSreg | That's how they look different in different terrains. |
| 00:57.50 | JademusSreg | I think that covers everything immediately relevant. |
| 00:58.06 | IskatuMesk | we'll find out when I push a button and it all fucks up instantly |
| 00:59.04 | JademusSreg | That's that go-getter-it-over-with attitude people admire! |
| 00:59.12 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 00:59.49 | IskatuMesk | terrain textures don't support spec? |
| 01:00.05 | JademusSreg | Of course they do. |
| 01:00.22 | IskatuMesk | I see normal/diff/height |
| 01:01.05 | JademusSreg | Yeah, because for whatever silly reason, terrain textures interpret the alpha channel of the diffuse as the specular, contrary to pretty much everything else. |
| 01:01.26 | IskatuMesk | ah bloody hell |
| 01:01.31 | IskatuMesk | that is going to make this really messy |
| 01:01.44 | JademusSreg | Normal is obvious, but it uses a different scheme than the model assets. |
| 01:01.59 | IskatuMesk | actually from what I have seen they tend to alternate randomly |
| 01:02.01 | JademusSreg | Aaand the height field seems deprecated. |
| 01:02.59 | JademusSreg | I was so disappoint at no height rendering. |
| 01:03.00 | IskatuMesk | damnit... this might make a big mess |
| 01:03.34 | IskatuMesk | some decals use it |
| 01:03.44 | IskatuMesk | but it's parallax so it looks really weird at an angle |
| 01:04.46 | IskatuMesk | and I am sure at least some terrain partly uses it |
| 01:04.50 | IskatuMesk | as it would explain some bugs I have seen |
| 01:05.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster EnityEnigma (629696b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.150.150.178) |
| 01:07.03 | IskatuMesk | my custom texture set is not showing up as an entry for the doodad |
| 01:07.11 | IskatuMesk | how can I make it able to show in the list |
| 01:10.26 | IskatuMesk | wait... do I have to define an entire tileset for this? |
| 01:14.51 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 01:15.03 | JademusSreg | Hm, that's worth testing./ |
| 01:15.05 | IskatuMesk | that is retarded |
| 01:15.46 | IskatuMesk | I will have like 60 tilesets that aren't tilesets |
| 01:24.29 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 01:24.58 | JademusSreg | Why so? |
| 01:25.16 | IskatuMesk | one for each texture shift on a doodad set? |
| 01:25.45 | JademusSreg | But what the rocks use isn't required. |
| 01:25.57 | IskatuMesk | wat |
| 01:26.01 | JademusSreg | There are other ways, just less hacky/easy. |
| 01:26.05 | IskatuMesk | man, even the standard doodad isn't working right now |
| 01:26.06 | JademusSreg | Remember the drone? =D |
| 01:26.24 | IskatuMesk | [7/12/2014 6:25:26 PM] Warning: USER: [ 50 4] CActorDoodad[APEX_AENRockStandard_a] Model Assets\Doodads\Tera\Rocks_AEN\tera_AEN_rock_00_07.m3; Unable to create this model. |
| 01:26.30 | IskatuMesk | no texture swapping or anything |
| 01:26.47 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 01:27.41 | IskatuMesk | they preview fine... |
| 01:27.53 | JademusSreg | Variation issue? |
| 01:28.01 | JademusSreg | Yep, seems like it. |
| 01:28.23 | IskatuMesk | ah yeah, they are trying to add a variation onto a variation |
| 01:28.27 | IskatuMesk | weird |
| 01:29.14 | JademusSreg | The model field was set manually, xml edit to fix. |
| 01:29.45 | IskatuMesk | I think it's because the parent is 00 |
| 01:29.50 | IskatuMesk | and it has to have no numbers |
| 01:32.37 | IskatuMesk | ... man, what the *fuck* |
| 01:32.45 | IskatuMesk | when placed they are bright orange |
| 01:33.03 | JademusSreg | Paste the xml. =D |
| 01:34.33 | IskatuMesk | it's really inconsistent |
| 01:34.59 | IskatuMesk | does the game have a variation cap? |
| 01:35.41 | IskatuMesk | https://pastee.org/fscf6 |
| 01:36.45 | IskatuMesk | orange ones cannot have their variation changed |
| 01:37.15 | IskatuMesk | wait... yes they can, but only via keyboard commands first. I seriously broke something. |
| 01:37.24 | IskatuMesk | I told you, I told you I'd push a button and fuck up everything |
| 01:38.04 | JademusSreg | clicks. |
| 01:39.26 | JademusSreg | Delete lines 3 and 4. =D |
| 01:40.36 | IskatuMesk | that lighting is undefined though |
| 01:40.39 | IskatuMesk | like, I don't think it even does anything |
| 01:41.43 | JademusSreg | I know, just hate it. |
| 01:41.47 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 01:42.05 | JademusSreg | Also, what is the path of the asset? |
| 01:42.21 | IskatuMesk | Assets\Doodads\Tera\Rocks_AEN\tera_AEN_rock.m3 |
| 01:44.05 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/xWvULQk.png |
| 01:45.51 | IskatuMesk | sometimes they turn orange when I resize them |
| 01:46.16 | IskatuMesk | then gain back their textures when I return them to normal |
| 01:46.21 | JademusSreg | Normal diffuse confusion, haha. |
| 01:46.38 | JademusSreg | That's a normal texture in a diffuse slot, no doubt. |
| 01:46.39 | IskatuMesk | and vis versa, too |
| 01:46.48 | IskatuMesk | yeah, but why is it changing when I resize them |
| 01:47.00 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 01:48.06 | JademusSreg | I could take a look, but could just be a fluke. Also, need to get a food. Perhaps a whole herd of food. |
| 01:48.08 | Dustin_Hendricks | Obviously they hate you IskatuMesk |
| 01:48.16 | Dustin_Hendricks | ALL THE FOODS |
| 01:49.30 | IskatuMesk | think it could be a bug with the multi export? |
| 01:49.35 | Dustin_Hendricks | rummages through desk for food. |
| 01:49.52 | Dustin_Hendricks | receives [DORRITOS] |
| 01:49.55 | JademusSreg | Brb in 10-15, then I'll defeat it. |
| 01:49.57 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 01:49.58 | Dustin_Hendricks | Random snacks ftw |
| 01:52.28 | IskatuMesk | just tiny size changes are enough to """fix""" them |
| 01:52.31 | IskatuMesk | what the hell... |
| 01:55.45 | ArcanePariah | lol Dustin_Hendricks |
| 01:55.57 | Dustin_Hendricks | :D |
| 01:56.02 | ArcanePariah | cast conjuration |
| 01:56.20 | ArcanePariah | *A refrigerator appears at Dustin_Hendricks desk* |
| 01:56.33 | ArcanePariah | That's better |
| 01:56.58 | ArcanePariah | Now you can have random mealws |
| 01:56.59 | ArcanePariah | meals* |
| 01:57.26 | Dustin_Hendricks | Score! |
| 02:01.18 | Dustin_Hendricks | 2 more hours till the weekend :D |
| 02:07.16 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 02:08.32 | JademusSreg | Mesk, I currently suspect z-fighting between two materials wrapped to the same mesh, the two materials using diffuse and normal respectively. |
| 02:08.54 | JademusSreg | But not a modeler, so perhaps complete bullshit. |
| 02:14.13 | IskatuMesk | even if that was the case it wouldn't be orange |
| 02:14.15 | IskatuMesk | it'd just be flickering |
| 02:16.58 | JademusSreg | Yes, figured that should be the case, lacked a better hypothesis. |
| 02:22.26 | JademusSreg | Unrelated: watching Hemlock Grove, enjoying the horror-movie monster archetypes informing the characters' personalities and quirks. |
| 02:23.38 | Dustin_Hendricks | I just had a coworker tell me about that show earlier JademusSreg I've added it to my to watch list. |
| 02:24.22 | JademusSreg | Eli Roth is the executive producer, but fortunately it'svery far from Hostel torture-porn. |
| 02:25.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster Imion (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-231-221.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 02:25.42 | Dustin_Hendricks | hehe |
| 02:27.52 | JademusSreg | It's a delightful narrative suspended between young adult drama, cryptic and overtly supernatural Twin Peaksism, and the pan-flash violence of dark impulses.. |
| 02:28.31 | Bounty | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us79aL6CBGA |
| 02:28.32 | Bounty | lulz |
| 02:29.06 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 02:29.13 | Dustin_Hendricks | Sounds sweeet |
| 02:29.48 | JademusSreg | Oh, and obviously overflowing with references. |
| 02:35.40 | IskatuMesk | alright, catastrophe once again averted, back to actual work |
| 02:35.48 | IskatuMesk | now, just what the fuck is going with these rocks |
| 02:36.38 | IskatuMesk | that feel when the sc2 editor won't close |
| 02:37.44 | JademusSreg | Care to show me all relevant xml data and/or one of the rock model assets and/or the textures? |
| 02:38.02 | IskatuMesk | I showed all the xml data |
| 02:39.46 | IskatuMesk | lol. I thought reloading might fix it. It just alternated which ones were broken instead |
| 02:40.17 | JademusSreg | Alright, perhaps nothing changed, or maybe I missed something. I'll look again. |
| 02:40.20 | JademusSreg | looks for the link. |
| 02:40.43 | IskatuMesk | I sent you an archive link |
| 02:42.33 | IskatuMesk | the bug never occurs in the cutscene editor |
| 02:43.39 | IskatuMesk | hmmmmmm. I wonder if that could be why. |
| 02:43.45 | JademusSreg | Interesting. |
| 02:43.48 | IskatuMesk | Does sc2 actually use the alpha on normal maps? |
| 02:44.01 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 02:44.19 | IskatuMesk | according to my converted textures, yes it does. okay, scrap that. |
| 02:44.34 | JademusSreg | Curious thing. |
| 02:44.50 | IskatuMesk | I suspect it would be more consistent if it was an actual mesh issue |
| 02:48.07 | JademusSreg | The texture references / file names are rather odd. Though based on your paste https://pastee.org/fscf6 it shouldn't matter, since you're not using TexSet or actor events to select by id. |
| 02:48.55 | IskatuMesk | most of my things have similar naming conventions |
| 02:48.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster decemberscalm (~Travis@r74-192-174-36.htvlcmta01.hnvitx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 02:49.32 | JademusSreg | Hm, wonder what will happen if I alter the model a bit. |
| 02:49.46 | IskatuMesk | is the bug showing up for you too |
| 02:49.56 | decemberscalm | MERC |
| 02:49.57 | decemberscalm | where u at |
| 02:51.13 | JademusSreg | Oi, decem, you're a Starbow contributor? |
| 02:51.29 | JademusSreg | Or did I arrive at that in error? |
| 02:51.33 | IskatuMesk | he made the pathing I mentioned |
| 02:51.45 | JademusSreg | Hm, dunno what that might mean. =D |
| 02:51.51 | IskatuMesk | it means yes |
| 02:52.03 | JademusSreg | In mechanical terms, rather, haha. |
| 02:52.21 | IskatuMesk | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m596vVsarX0 |
| 02:52.38 | IskatuMesk | removing those texture references in the model data fixed iot |
| 02:52.38 | JademusSreg | I'll put the rock thingy in the map thingy, see how it behaves. |
| 02:52.42 | decemberscalm | I'm the primary sbow editor ya |
| 02:52.59 | IskatuMesk | so it was the declarations or whatever you want to call them |
| 02:54.11 | JademusSreg | Neato. I must say it's the most technically sophisticated SC2 project I've seen, the project/platform in totality. Quite impressive. |
| 02:54.23 | JademusSreg | Haven't seen the content, yet, though. =D |
| 02:55.19 | JademusSreg | Is there a link to the document published on bnet or does it circumvent it entirely? |
| 02:55.43 | JademusSreg | Couldn't find a SC2 protocol link to the document, tragic. |
| 02:56.00 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, model testing. |
| 02:58.44 | IskatuMesk | I fixed it jade |
| 02:58.51 | IskatuMesk | the issue is the declarations in the model data |
| 02:59.01 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 02:59.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip72-220-178-19.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 02:59.18 | IskatuMesk | some vanished on me though, need to test a bit |
| 02:59.30 | IskatuMesk | I think it ignores the original base model when counting for variations |
| 02:59.40 | IskatuMesk | and it did something odd |
| 03:01.32 | IskatuMesk | the most likely problem here is I don't know basic math |
| 03:01.47 | JademusSreg | HAha |
| 03:02.19 | IskatuMesk | I don't know why those texture declarations cause that problem |
| 03:02.29 | rtschutter | I find that to be a common problem in my own work |
| 03:02.33 | IskatuMesk | it does tempt me to take the slightly more annoying way out of exporting model sets for each texture |
| 03:04.35 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 03:04.40 | ArcanePariah | Hello rtschutter, how you doing? |
| 03:05.14 | rtschutter | pretty good, though stressed out trying to get a GameHeart update I have been avoiding for months out tonight |
| 03:05.16 | rtschutter | you? |
| 03:06.16 | ArcanePariah | Also good, busy with work and stuff with NOTD 2 |
| 03:06.22 | ArcanePariah | Plus assisting people around here :D |
| 03:06.39 | rtschutter | how is notd2 going? |
| 03:10.44 | rtschutter | if anyone has any bugs that have been driving them insane lately they want fixed let me know... I can at least try to get them entered into the system before my time there is up |
| 03:12.34 | Bounty | nom nom |
| 03:27.42 | IskatuMesk | I exist, there I am a bug |
| 03:28.19 | Dustin_Hendricks | rtschutter, there was something I've been wanting them to fix for fucking ever but I can't remember what it was now... |
| 03:28.50 | Dustin_Hendricks | Oh wait |
| 03:28.53 | Dustin_Hendricks | nm |
| 03:29.50 | ArcanePariah | NoTD 2 is going well, working on missions, then going to work more on fleshing classes and other stuff out. Lots to do |
| 03:30.08 | ArcanePariah | Also, how long do you have there? |
| 03:33.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheSkunk__ (~TheSkunk_@184-8-187-87.dr04.nrwc.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 03:37.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheSkunk__ (~TheSkunk_@184-8-131-163.dr04.nrwc.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 03:42.27 | phil__ | so I can't figure out a hotkey to modify the current cell in the tabular format of the data editor |
| 03:42.40 | phil__ | is there one? |
| 03:44.42 | Dustin_Hendricks | Just click it? :P |
| 03:46.38 | phil__ | I try to use the keyboard when possible |
| 03:46.48 | phil__ | switching between the mouse and keyboard is generally a pain -.- |
| 03:48.36 | ArcanePariah | phil__, hit enter? |
| 03:48.57 | JademusSreg | was distacted looking through eros code. |
| 03:49.32 | ArcanePariah | Table view is fully navigatable by tabs/enter/arrow keys |
| 03:49.38 | JademusSreg | It's really quite nice code. |
| 03:49.49 | ArcanePariah | You can shift select as well if needed |
| 03:50.46 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 03:51.15 | phil__ | hmm |
| 03:51.20 | phil__ | I'm trying to find an inline field |
| 03:51.24 | phil__ | one that doesn't pop up a window |
| 03:51.37 | phil__ | those were the fields I was having trouble with and now I can't find one to see if I really missed 'enter' |
| 03:58.01 | Bounty | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlYlNF30bVg |
| 04:18.05 | rtschutter | This will be my last week Arcade |
| 04:18.08 | rtschutter | Arcane* |
| 04:19.22 | JademusSreg | Last week wat? |
| 04:21.31 | rtschutter | at blizz |
| 04:22.27 | JademusSreg | Ah, cool. |
| 04:22.35 | JademusSreg | Yeah, I saw that photo. =D |
| 04:25.08 | rtschutter | yeah it was pretty exciting but now its almost done =/ |
| 04:26.48 | JademusSreg | And we celebrate your success. Woo. =D |
| 04:27.18 | rtschutter | haha |
| 04:27.32 | rtschutter | did you get any arcade games into the contest? |
| 04:28.19 | phil__ | does the cutscene editor sometimes display the wrong animation name? |
| 04:28.20 | phil__ | http://i.imgur.com/iKTIdAf.png |
| 04:28.32 | phil__ | If I change it to "burrow" then the burrow animation shows as expected |
| 04:29.00 | phil__ | And that's what pops up after clicking browse on a corresponding model |
| 04:29.11 | JademusSreg | Sincerely. Some people whine and complain about shit, but it's petty. Better to share in the awesome accomplishments, as peers. Haha |
| 04:29.13 | phil__ | or rather [View In Cutscene Editor] |
| 04:29.22 | JademusSreg | And naw, didn't have sufficient time, but no worries. |
| 04:29.26 | JademusSreg | Maybe next time. =D |
| 04:30.08 | rtschutter | yeah I wasnt allowed to submit so I am excited for the next one too |
| 04:30.17 | phil__ | hey rtschutter - do you guys have access to maps that were once on sc2? A map that won one of your contests back in 2010 or 11 is no longer there |
| 04:30.24 | phil__ | MAD for 'Missile Arena Deluxe' |
| 04:30.29 | phil__ | been wanting to play that forever x.x |
| 04:30.37 | JademusSreg | phil, animations should be previewed from the little blue animation-labeled bar. Changing stuff in the object properties just alters how it appears in that cutscene. =D |
| 04:31.07 | phil__ | hmm |
| 04:31.24 | phil__ | I thought I had to view it in the cutscene editor in order to see what animation to select in the actors events |
| 04:31.40 | JademusSreg | Yeah, certainly helps. |
| 04:32.06 | JademusSreg | But the Object properties window on the right side isn't useful unless you're constructing cutscenes. |
| 04:32.06 | rtschutter | I am not really sure. I am not familiar with their entire setup but I will ask |
| 04:32.19 | phil__ | and I click the [View In Cutscene Editor] on a default model |
| 04:32.26 | phil__ | oh |
| 04:32.39 | JademusSreg | Right click on the bar at the bottom to make it play whatever animations. |
| 04:32.39 | phil__ | I thought that's what I was looking at when choosing the name to select in the actors events |
| 04:32.45 | phil__ | ah shit |
| 04:32.49 | JademusSreg | Hahaha |
| 04:33.04 | phil__ | wtf |
| 04:33.09 | phil__ | man |
| 04:33.14 | JademusSreg | No worries, the editor is less than intuitive in its default configuration. |
| 04:33.16 | phil__ | first I miss enter |
| 04:33.20 | phil__ | now I miss that |
| 04:33.44 | phil__ | I'm spending as much time as possible on this map editor though, so I'm really hoping to be past all this newby shit soon |
| 04:34.34 | rtschutter | lol |
| 04:34.36 | rtschutter | good luck |
| 04:34.39 | JademusSreg | In a few months, that feeling should mostly fade. Tends to correspond positively with answering more questions than one asks, like a Kill:Death ratio. |
| 04:34.49 | phil__ | haha |
| 04:34.55 | rtschutter | my ratio is still terrible |
| 04:35.01 | JademusSreg | A few months, for supah uxorz. |
| 04:35.05 | JademusSreg | Harhar |
| 04:35.24 | phil__ | after that, I want to continue on my javascripting |
| 04:35.28 | phil__ | which I am not fond of |
| 04:35.34 | phil__ | but it's something I've decided I want to be good at |
| 04:35.42 | phil__ | after this map I mean |
| 04:36.08 | rtschutter | what map are you making phil? |
| 04:36.21 | IskatuMesk | shit is going to hit the fan here so hard |
| 04:36.37 | phil__ | well - I don't expect it to be popular, it's just something my brothers and I will play |
| 04:36.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Charys (43b5dd75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.181.221.117) |
| 04:36.54 | JademusSreg | But really, learning the editor is a many layered process, but the two primary facets to all of them is 1) understanding the abstractions 2) practical experience with the content. |
| 04:36.55 | phil__ | anyway, a moba style map with different play styles instead of just a bunch of heroes |
| 04:37.05 | JademusSreg | Mesk, literally or figuratively? |
| 04:37.06 | phil__ | biggest change will be one person controlling what units go to what lanes |
| 04:37.10 | IskatuMesk | both |
| 04:37.19 | phil__ | haha |
| 04:37.26 | JademusSreg | Shartastic^2 |
| 04:37.28 | IskatuMesk | the housing situation is just deteriorating and now they want to move into a fucking apartment, and let me tell you how much I want to be near people |
| 04:37.37 | phil__ | haha |
| 04:37.56 | IskatuMesk | I would never be able to voice act or cast ever again, literally the only things I do in life |
| 04:38.14 | phil__ | what do you cast? |
| 04:38.21 | IskatuMesk | that to me is a death sentence |
| 04:38.23 | IskatuMesk | I do LP's |
| 04:38.30 | Charys | spells |
| 04:38.35 | IskatuMesk | yes. |
| 04:38.42 | IskatuMesk | I cast spells of assmad and bumburn |
| 04:38.50 | phil__ | not sure what you mean by LP |
| 04:39.01 | IskatuMesk | playthroughs of games |
| 04:39.06 | phil__ | ah |
| 04:39.09 | JademusSreg | Let's Plough |
| 04:39.09 | phil__ | awesome |
| 04:39.34 | Charys | so i wonder which of the top 10 will get the most votes |
| 04:39.37 | IskatuMesk | I transitioned to it after I decided casting sc2 was a waste of time and since I fucked up everywhere else I have really only had the energy to do that for some years |
| 04:40.09 | IskatuMesk | so, if I disappear for an extended amount of time, assume the worst. |
| 04:40.13 | phil__ | haha |
| 04:40.27 | phil__ | download the stalkiest of apps "find my friends" |
| 04:40.39 | phil__ | then whomever you choose to friend will always know where you are |
| 04:40.55 | JademusSreg | Hm, can't, or rather can't assume only one outcome out of all possible outcomes. |
| 04:41.02 | JademusSreg | I shall assume all the worsts. |
| 04:41.20 | phil__ | jademus - have you ever seen rick and morty? |
| 04:41.27 | phil__ | I'm not a fan of most t.v. shows or movies |
| 04:41.32 | phil__ | but I think you'd get a kick out of it |
| 04:41.38 | JademusSreg | In case of impending doom, I invite you to put the Apex stuff on the dropbox. |
| 04:41.43 | JademusSreg | phil, yessss. |
| 04:41.50 | JademusSreg | Wubbalubbadubdub. |
| 04:41.54 | phil__ | haha |
| 04:42.18 | phil__ | alright - back to this damn editor |
| 04:44.38 | JademusSreg | If they'd let us customize the editor XML, annoyingly sitting right there in Core.SC2Mod with a big dumb sauropod grin on its face tempting one to modify it, could actually add information to the editor, change its frames, menus, fix bugs. |
| 04:45.06 | rtschutter | lol |
| 04:45.35 | rtschutter | I have had them fix quite a few bugs while I was there |
| 04:45.54 | JademusSreg | Also unfortunate that custom shaders aren't supported either. |
| 04:45.59 | rtschutter | hopefully it will have some impact |
| 04:46.53 | JademusSreg | Not a significant issue, but unfortunate. Can't make an psychedelic perspective warp shader. D= |
| 04:47.44 | Ahli | I would love to have all 2D - UI elements not being altered by the map's lighting |
| 04:48.31 | rtschutter | thats a good idea Ahli |
| 04:48.36 | Ahli | -> change lighting to change the map's color and have the tooltips of units not look funky. |
| 04:48.57 | rtschutter | at least an option to disable that would be nice |
| 04:49.03 | Ahli | yeah |
| 04:49.06 | rtschutter | I wonder if they can do it |
| 04:49.09 | rtschutter | easily |
| 04:49.11 | JademusSreg | All those (inaccurately) named "acid shader" mods for minecraft or whatever currently trending game fail to capture the qualia of a genuine LSD experience. |
| 04:50.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:1680:242c:f66d:4ff:fe93:2e29) |
| 04:51.35 | JademusSreg | (I'd say it's preferable to convey the experience accurately in a game than to actually bother with the authentic synaptic seratonin riot. Bluh.) |
| 04:52.38 | JademusSreg | Ahli, is that a thing that happens? |
| 04:53.10 | Ahli | world tooltips change their appearance, yes |
| 04:53.14 | rtschutter | damn the guy who I would ask about that is not going to be there on Monday |
| 04:53.36 | rtschutter | well I will email him anyways so I dont forget |
| 04:53.48 | Ahli | because they are part of the HDR rendering pass |
| 04:54.04 | JademusSreg | Clarify? Because so far as I am aware the lighting wouldn't affect it directly, but could influence how it renders given LDR vs HDR. |
| 04:54.34 | JademusSreg | Or are we saying the same thing? |
| 04:54.37 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 04:55.05 | Ahli | I assume they are rendered in HDR as they change. From interface construction I know that hdr mode is altered by the map's lighting |
| 04:55.13 | rtschutter | wtf... I just got an error I have never seen before while trying to download one of my own mods from battle.net |
| 04:55.29 | rtschutter | "CLIENTSIDECACHE_READ_CONNECTION_FAILED" |
| 04:55.30 | IskatuMesk | did you get them to fix the cache bug |
| 04:55.41 | IskatuMesk | because that's a pretty annoying one |
| 04:55.49 | rtschutter | is it the one I just described? |
| 04:56.02 | IskatuMesk | it causes the editor to hang onto old mod files even when you physically delete them |
| 04:56.09 | IskatuMesk | and keep restoring them and associating them to things |
| 04:56.11 | IskatuMesk | causing tons of problems |
| 04:56.20 | rtschutter | you mean when you test a map and it has a mod file |
| 04:56.22 | rtschutter | it should not? |
| 04:56.24 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 04:56.27 | rtschutter | lol yes |
| 04:56.28 | JademusSreg | Ahli, it's a fun read. =D https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/Shaders.7z |
| 04:56.30 | IskatuMesk | thank god |
| 04:56.38 | rtschutter | I got that entered into their bug thing at least |
| 04:56.42 | IskatuMesk | one day I will be able to test map without waiting 3-5 minutes to switch to an empty map |
| 04:56.51 | rtschutter | and I spent a bunch of time with QA convincing them this was a big problem |
| 04:56.59 | rtschutter | and finally managed to get them to reproduce it |
| 04:57.02 | rtschutter | you can actually fix it |
| 04:57.06 | rtschutter | right now |
| 04:57.15 | rtschutter | by going into your variables.txt file |
| 04:57.16 | JademusSreg | Intrigued. |
| 04:57.18 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 04:57.21 | rtschutter | in documents/starcraft ii |
| 04:57.28 | IskatuMesk | I tried all kinds of things, ahli suggested to re-run the game while it was running already, but this only fixes some instances of it |
| 04:57.43 | rtschutter | and deleting the "testmod" line |
| 04:57.44 | IskatuMesk | drives me insane |
| 04:57.56 | rtschutter | then saving the text file |
| 04:58.09 | rtschutter | they figured out what causes it specifically |
| 04:58.18 | Ahli | I don't understand anything in that code, jade :D |
| 04:58.19 | rtschutter | but I cannot remember what it was |
| 04:58.19 | IskatuMesk | alright, deleted |
| 04:58.36 | JademusSreg | Yar, variables interchangable with run args. |
| 04:58.46 | JademusSreg | Ahli, learn? =D |
| 04:58.54 | JademusSreg | HAha, or not, no worries. |
| 04:59.21 | Ahli | REINHARD_OPERATOR ? |
| 04:59.24 | rtschutter | Mesk you will have to do that |
| 04:59.27 | IskatuMesk | now, if you can fix the incredibly bad AI performance |
| 04:59.29 | rtschutter | each time the problem occurs |
| 04:59.31 | IskatuMesk | that would be a miracle :3 |
| 04:59.33 | IskatuMesk | ah |
| 04:59.41 | IskatuMesk | I'll have to remember |
| 04:59.56 | rtschutter | yeah I kept running into the bug while I was there |
| 05:00.30 | rtschutter | and it was really hampering my ability to work so I asked a bunch of people about it |
| 05:01.25 | IskatuMesk | it's existed for a long time |
| 05:01.32 | IskatuMesk | I figured it would have gotten hotfixed instantly |
| 05:02.09 | IskatuMesk | I first picked up this project in feb and immediately ran into that and was like "whelp, this is getting patched in a day or two" ... but, of course, that never happens |
| 05:02.21 | rtschutter | because of the way they work there they would be unlikely to encounter it |
| 05:02.32 | IskatuMesk | I saw tons of people reporting it |
| 05:02.35 | JademusSreg | Add dx11=1 to variables and enjoy the crashes, perhaps. |
| 05:02.41 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 05:03.04 | rtschutter | yeah I am not sure, if QA got the report and could not reproduce it maybe there was an issue |
| 05:03.13 | JademusSreg | And Herostorm has a nice cmd specifically to just crash the game. =D |
| 05:03.20 | Ahli | what? |
| 05:03.32 | IskatuMesk | a lot of engines have a command to force a crash |
| 05:03.38 | JademusSreg | Only works as a run arg, Ahli. |
| 05:03.47 | Ahli | expected |
| 05:04.21 | JademusSreg | But I pasted a bunch of SC2 cmd related stuff earlier. |
| 05:04.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster charys (43b5dd75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.181.221.117) |
| 05:06.20 | JademusSreg | SC2 client arg candidates+confirmed+junk: https://pastee.org/vgdmk SC2 editor arg candidates+confirmed+junk: https://pastee.org/mae8 |
| 05:06.57 | IskatuMesk | you should convince them to get rid of the restrictions on their triggers |
| 05:07.09 | IskatuMesk | so I don't have to bother someone to hack the game up |
| 05:07.22 | JademusSreg | ??? |
| 05:07.29 | IskatuMesk | play movie, save game management, etc |
| 05:07.39 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 05:07.50 | JademusSreg | I was investigating that recently. |
| 05:08.13 | IskatuMesk | I suspect there's a few ways to get around them but it really shouldn't be necessary |
| 05:13.51 | JademusSreg | Accidentally found some obscure tokens which may be relevant, but won't know until tested. |
| 05:19.53 | JademusSreg | Haha, keep getting distracted from photoshop. |
| 05:40.32 | Bounty | The night of goats is upon us https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJAioFb3IOA |
| 05:41.29 | JademusSreg | Mesk, still animate? |
| 05:56.46 | ArcanePariah | rtschutter, what are some of the bugs that you were able to get fixed there? |
| 05:57.38 | ArcanePariah | And also, I by accident also discovered the work around you mentioned, life is full of strange coincendences I think :D |
| 05:57.57 | ArcanePariah | The thing with mods and deleting that line in variables.txt |
| 05:58.47 | IskatuMesk | animate? |
| 05:59.06 | JademusSreg | Yeah, wanted some feedback on colour scheme. |
| 05:59.26 | JademusSreg | So I'll make a minigif. |
| 06:08.13 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, I'm betting -dx11 only works on Win8, because the crash is a product of the compiled binary looking for the wrong library. In win8 the lib is named differently and is part of the native interface. |
| 06:08.36 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... my VM is based on win8 codebase... time for science! |
| 06:10.08 | philaway | checks it outs - a semi-finished move: |
| 06:10.09 | philaway | http://i.gyazo.com/08cde6f62bb486bcf3b4a364c98e71c4.gif |
| 06:11.25 | IskatuMesk | FleaLisk strikes |
| 06:11.30 | philaway | shit yeah |
| 06:11.54 | philaway | it's scary I'm almost starting to understand how effects/behaviors/actors work |
| 06:11.59 | philaway | behaviors are still throwing me for a loop |
| 06:12.12 | philaway | but in due time I'll have it figured out |
| 06:12.45 | JademusSreg | https://www.dropbox.com/s/kfgxhhif2r5rbz0/ColourSpooge.gif |
| 06:13.36 | IskatuMesk | is dat sum disco |
| 06:13.54 | IskatuMesk | looks good |
| 06:14.03 | Bounty | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFu0WZMTxr0 |
| 06:14.34 | JademusSreg | Which colour scheme do you prefer? The red+original? |
| 06:15.15 | IskatuMesk | yeah. the gold fits with the lore more |
| 06:15.23 | JademusSreg | kk |
| 06:15.50 | IskatuMesk | however, if you have a way of isolating the gold, getting me a layer of just the gold for specular mangling would be nice. |
| 06:16.43 | JademusSreg | That's doable. Of course, I'm forced to do everything by hand to get decent quality. |
| 06:16.55 | IskatuMesk | that tends to be the way of things |
| 06:17.09 | IskatuMesk | I tried to automate the process of isolating some shit in a sword texture and gave up and did it all by hand |
| 06:17.54 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@2a02:908:fd50:4d60:702d:35e2:a54d:a140) |
| 06:19.34 | JademusSreg | Similarly, if it takes more than a few minutes to write a regular expression to handle some text operations, usually a waste of time. |
| 06:23.51 | philaway | unless you're taking an old code base and implementing nlog ! |
| 06:24.09 | philaway | I spent a long time getting the regex search/replace working just right |
| 06:24.19 | JademusSreg | Point made. |
| 06:24.24 | philaway | ? |
| 06:24.25 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 06:24.27 | philaway | haha |
| 06:24.32 | philaway | I felt justified doing so |
| 06:24.42 | philaway | how on earth is that not justified |
| 06:24.47 | philaway | I needed good logging and they had shit |
| 06:26.19 | rtschutter | I have been working on a tool that will make it easy for people to build visual grids for their grid based games |
| 06:26.27 | rtschutter | http://www.twitch.tv/rtschutter/b/546551145 |
| 06:26.34 | rtschutter | http://www.twitch.tv/rtschutter/b/546551460 |
| 06:26.38 | rtschutter | http://www.twitch.tv/rtschutter/b/546552308 |
| 06:26.39 | JademusSreg | I don't know enough about the context to make an objective evaluation, but I can certainly make jest. |
| 06:26.47 | rtschutter | just by adjusting a few numbers |
| 06:27.01 | JademusSreg | In t3Terrains.xml? |
| 06:27.09 | rtschutter | if anyone has any ideas on what I should include with the tool lt me know |
| 06:27.09 | philaway | gotcha :P |
| 06:28.13 | JademusSreg | Important note: I am always joking, and always sincere. |
| 06:32.36 | IskatuMesk | time to pass out |
| 06:32.37 | IskatuMesk | have fun |
| 06:40.40 | Bounty | I conclude the night with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Aui2TKucUg |
| 07:09.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.100.127) |
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| 08:52.30 | grim001 | ... |
| 08:52.43 | JademusSreg | Hallo grim. =D |
| 08:53.05 | grim001 | I'm almost done wrangling with OpenGL to optimize my rendering pipeline |
| 08:53.58 | JademusSreg | Shall we look forward to an interactive demo and benchmark demos with flashy simulations? |
| 08:56.06 | grim001 | I've already got an interactive lighting demo, finished it about a week ago |
| 08:57.35 | JademusSreg | I remember the mention, but I don't recall having opportunity to test it. |
| 08:58.46 | decemberscalm | techaholics! I feel so out of place |
| 08:58.59 | grim001 | You were AFK for about a week there |
| 08:59.31 | A1win | decemberscalm, maybe it's them who are out of place |
| 08:59.43 | JademusSreg | Hm, sounds plausible. |
| 09:00.08 | JademusSreg | decemb, any chance you'll let me browse the mod source? =D |
| 09:00.29 | decemberscalm | all discussion I've heard so far is either talk about coding, enginers or other advance things. That or drunken ramblings from bounty |
| 09:00.41 | decemberscalm | *engines |
| 09:00.42 | JademusSreg | Hahaha, accurate. |
| 09:01.12 | decemberscalm | mod file on NA and EU is called StarbowBeta |
| 09:01.27 | JademusSreg | Ah, cool. THanks. |
| 09:02.12 | decemberscalm | search Pathing in behaviors, effects, and validators to get all the relevant things for the pathfinding system |
| 09:02.26 | Teratron | oops http://rt.com/news/172404-russian-donetsk-shelled-victims/ |
| 09:02.38 | decemberscalm | just need to slap on the Pathing Wait Buff to attatch it to a unit |
| 09:03.00 | JademusSreg | Yes, I'm trying to understand what exactly Mesk meant, figure the most efficient route is to the source, haha. |
| 09:05.07 | decemberscalm | now help me build A* pathfinding in sc2 engine |
| 09:05.11 | decemberscalm | :P |
| 09:05.59 | JademusSreg | Hm, well, it's doable, probable even doable without script. |
| 09:06.33 | decemberscalm | I know Maverick attempted it. But he ended up using a half asses behavior method that hurt how good micro feels. |
| 09:07.04 | philaway | what do you mean A*? |
| 09:07.16 | grim001 | Jademus: Would you rather get the demo now, or wait 30 mins to an hour and get a couple extra features with it? |
| 09:07.31 | grim001 | such as the ability to change ambient lighting |
| 09:07.58 | JademusSreg | But before I explain what I mean, how familiar are you with the guts, with (for example) floating point versus fixed point, the file component formats, and the engine's various epsilon values? =D |
| 09:08.07 | JademusSreg | grim, I can wait. |
| 09:08.41 | decemberscalm | the usual type of pathfinding used in most games. Search algeorithims for each units. SC2 uses flocking, the units don't have to figure out how to path around each other |
| 09:09.24 | decemberscalm | technically I think it uses A*, just in super smart way using nav meshes |
| 09:10.00 | decemberscalm | but if you've ever compared a micro tournament map in BW to SC2, you'll know just how much that destroyed fun basic auto attack micro in sc2 |
| 09:10.18 | JademusSreg | The questions I asked are all interconnected and relate to pathing. =D |
| 09:11.02 | philaway | ah k |
| 09:12.53 | JademusSreg | Suppose you want to determine exactly, with optimal precision, what movespeed a unit can have before it stops moving but can still be given move orders? =D It's a nice trick, but it's just an aspect of the subject, which understanding would allow one to develop content and mechanics which better leverage the properties of the system. |
| 09:14.12 | JademusSreg | So the first, and most important question since it unlocks all the others, is what is fixed type and how does it work (as opposed to floating point real number implementations). |
| 09:16.31 | JademusSreg | (Not rhetorical; not much fun to be a lecturer, except maybe making veiled dick jokes at a TEDtalk.) |
| 09:16.45 | decemberscalm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IRUPq8BmMM |
| 09:18.08 | JademusSreg | HAha, the music and presentation, rather comical. |
| 09:20.33 | JademusSreg | Anyway, understanding fixed point reveals the fixed point epsilon (arbitrarily small number value precision, the lowest possible), which it turn reveals corresponding effective epsilon values in a variety of mechanics, and involves the pathing mesh, too. But don't wanna jump ahead, spoilers wouldn't ruin the performance. =D |
| 09:20.57 | JademusSreg | *would harher |
| 09:22.50 | decemberscalm | uh huh |
| 09:22.53 | decemberscalm | I definently understood that |
| 09:22.54 | decemberscalm | ahahah |
| 09:23.31 | JademusSreg | So pop-quiz, what is the bit representation of fixed point? |
| 09:24.45 | JademusSreg | Fairly well documented, easy to find; 19 whole value bits, 12 fractional bits, and 1 sign bit. =D |
| 09:26.12 | JademusSreg | Which gives fixed point a whole value range of -(2^19) to (2^19-1). |
| 09:28.04 | JademusSreg | The fractional bits support 2^12 states. =D |
| 09:28.20 | A1win | if I'm not mistaken, the point of this lecture is that there is a smallest distance that a unit can move on each axis, which makes the navmesh a kind of a dense grid of tiny squares |
| 09:28.34 | JademusSreg | Spoiler alert/ |
| 09:28.43 | JademusSreg | Tris. |
| 09:29.09 | JademusSreg | They found that out the hard way in SC1. |
| 09:29.36 | JademusSreg | Square tiles for pathing makes circumnavigation difficult. =D |
| 09:29.47 | A1win | right |
| 09:30.12 | JademusSreg | But yes, the fractional epsilon value is 1/(2^12). |
| 09:53.11 | Merc | decemberscalm: WHAT |
| 09:54.09 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 09:54.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (4d26cd7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.38.205.122) |
| 09:55.16 | A1win | I've always wanted to make a care bare level for L4D but textures would be too big of an effort |
| 09:56.01 | JademusSreg | Could just make it look deliberately awful. |
| 09:59.53 | decemberscalm | avaliable for a quick test merc? |
| 09:59.55 | decemberscalm | you're EU right |
| 10:00.39 | JademusSreg | Darn, forgot to mention the range of values before movespeed epsilon that only allows a unit to cardinally like Chess's rook. |
| 10:03.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster kritzikratzi (~kritzikra@90.146.177.97) |
| 10:09.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 10:16.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@91.3.16.13) |
| 10:23.39 | grim001 | Jademus: demo is ready |
| 10:23.46 | JademusSreg | Cool. |
| 10:26.58 | grim001 | got the link? |
| 10:43.57 | Merc | derp |
| 10:44.08 | Merc | oh well |
| 11:04.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster TaylorMouse (54c6f5aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.198.245.170) |
| 11:06.07 | *** part/#sc2mapster TaylorMouse (54c6f5aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.198.245.170) |
| 11:06.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster TaylorMouse (54c6f5aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.198.245.170) |
| 11:07.10 | TaylorMouse | Hey PrintLN |
| 11:07.14 | TaylorMouse | Found it :) |
| 11:07.19 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 11:13.38 | TaylorMouse | I rewrote the import of the M3, with the changes I made to the bone structure, testing it out as we speak |
| 11:22.22 | sc2println | TaylorMouse thats cool |
| 11:23.07 | sc2println | I am currently writing a python script that generates max code |
| 11:23.19 | sc2println | using the structure.xml file |
| 11:25.23 | sc2println | TaylorMouse I also had a look at the model in Blender. The animation looks cool |
| 11:34.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster zolden (1f2adf22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.42.223.34) |
| 11:35.35 | zolden | merc sounds worked well |
| 11:36.23 | Merc | back for more eh |
| 11:38.23 | Merc | you script dudes should look for a way to convert the current existing material that is on a model in 3ds max, convert it to SC2 Material and reapply bitmaps |
| 11:38.33 | Merc | just imagine the saved work |
| 11:39.10 | Merc | or, saved mouse clicks at least :P |
| 11:49.36 | JademusSreg | Take an undefined, potentially infinite set, and convert all possible material configurations, irrespective of our capacity to anticipate such undefined features. |
| 11:49.56 | JademusSreg | Magic. =D |
| 12:00.29 | TaylorMouse | that script for max, would be awesome !! |
| 12:02.07 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 12:02.37 | sc2println | TaylorMouse did you got my private IRC message too? |
| 12:02.46 | TaylorMouse | ? |
| 12:02.53 | TaylorMouse | I don't think so |
| 12:20.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@2a02:908:fd50:4d60:8810:da6c:b475:1a) |
| 12:35.46 | Merc | magic, computers, programming, all the same for me JademusSreg |
| 12:44.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-231-221.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 12:54.20 | Ahli | lol |
| 13:18.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheSkunk_ (~TheSkunk_@184-8-131-163.dr04.nrwc.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 13:18.21 | TheSkunk_ | Hello |
| 13:22.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster kritzikratzi (~kritzikra@cpe90-146-177-97.liwest.at) |
| 13:23.05 | JademusSreg | Hallo. |
| 13:23.34 | TheSkunk_ | Half way through: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2akyc9/blizzard_arcade_contest_top_10_rogue_star_a/ |
| 13:24.12 | TheSkunk_ | Going to try and get hover + impossible bosses done today |
| 13:24.20 | TheSkunk_ | but I might be too busy |
| 13:34.17 | TheSkunk_ | Anyone up for playing Hover with me so I can get screenshots for it? |
| 13:37.09 | JademusSreg | is doing stuff. |
| 13:43.30 | TheSkunk_ | Its hard to get a 3v3 going this early in the morning sunday on NA server |
| 13:43.31 | TheSkunk_ | :P |
| 13:43.58 | JademusSreg | No doubt. |
| 13:45.31 | TheSkunk_ | we had 5 |
| 13:45.33 | TheSkunk_ | but 1 left |
| 13:45.36 | TheSkunk_ | so down to 3v1.. |
| 13:46.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster sonicnite (~regulate@68-118-163-19.dhcp.unas.nm.charter.com) |
| 13:46.42 | sonicnite | whats this a 2nd 48 hour suspension for racial/ethnic hatred? |
| 13:47.24 | sonicnite | some ppl were talking smack while playing then messaged after i replied |
| 13:47.36 | sonicnite | then my account got suspended a few days later |
| 13:48.49 | sonicnite | i had to buy wings of liberty twice since my account was banned for no reason |
| 13:50.22 | sonicnite | other ppl say stuff like that and they never get suspended |
| 13:50.49 | A1win | report them and they probably will |
| 13:51.02 | A1win | just because others are doing bad things doesn't give you the right to do so |
| 13:51.12 | sonicnite | what bad things? |
| 13:51.26 | A1win | "stuff like that" to quote you |
| 13:51.31 | A1win | (no idea what that is) |
| 13:51.48 | sonicnite | i was playing a ranked match the guy said noob... etc, i said learn to play |
| 13:52.01 | sonicnite | thats prolly all i said to get a suspension |
| 13:52.09 | A1win | haha |
| 13:52.18 | sonicnite | theres ppl saying worst stuff than that |
| 13:52.29 | A1win | no one gets banned if they are not reported |
| 13:52.35 | A1win | blizzard doesn't monitor everything |
| 13:53.08 | sonicnite | or when someone has more than 1 account keeps reporting |
| 13:58.54 | sonicnite | but at least its a warning |
| 13:59.16 | sonicnite | im prolly not able to say anything at all while on bnet |
| 13:59.54 | sonicnite | cuz any word violates their terms now |
| 14:00.40 | sonicnite | theres ppl mad after they lost |
| 14:02.46 | JademusSreg | I say stuff. |
| 14:03.23 | JademusSreg | Specifically: Haha. =D ♥ and ♥♥♥. |
| 14:03.29 | sonicnite | i was playing 1v1 for a few weeks |
| 14:03.50 | sonicnite | in customs ppl can say w/e theres too many trolls |
| 14:04.02 | sonicnite | they wont get reported |
| 14:04.16 | sonicnite | but in ladder matches they take it seriously |
| 14:04.19 | JademusSreg | Hearts are the -best- response to people losing their shit. |
| 14:05.55 | sonicnite | there was a ban wave for cheaters |
| 14:05.56 | sonicnite | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9453735601 |
| 14:06.02 | JademusSreg | Yay. |
| 14:06.27 | sonicnite | but my first account in WoL was accused of cheating |
| 14:07.30 | JademusSreg | starts peeling off a cucumber-watermelon facial mask. |
| 14:07.59 | TheSkunk_ | aflgk having too much fun forget to screenshot |
| 14:11.51 | sonicnite | it means blizzard is watching everything on bnet |
| 14:12.11 | sonicnite | there was a ban wave a few months ago too |
| 14:13.09 | sonicnite | but if someone made a real life threat is that account closure? |
| 14:14.22 | JademusSreg | Actual increase in attention (rather than a coincidental timing of their cullings) would suggest clearing the rabble before a media-worthy reveal. |
| 14:15.38 | sonicnite | they get too many reports to go through all of them |
| 14:16.38 | sonicnite | i was threatened on there and reported it, i still saw them going online |
| 14:22.02 | sonicnite | but its good he didnt get punished because i dont usually report ppl |
| 14:24.22 | sonicnite | not that anything could be done and legacy of the void is supposed to be out soon |
| 14:24.32 | sonicnite | they could just buy that to get back on |
| 14:25.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster pirate (45a586d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.165.134.210) |
| 14:26.48 | Teratron | in other news http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJe2fwjiEQ |
| 14:27.12 | pirate | I guarantee that link is not news |
| 14:28.06 | JademusSreg | Do what can be done, don't worry about doing shit that can't be done; ultimately, you can only control yourself (and even that's contentious), you control how you think, how you act, how you react. |
| 14:29.08 | pirate | context? |
| 14:29.31 | JademusSreg | Responding to soni above. |
| 14:29.44 | pirate | so many new names these days |
| 14:30.15 | Ahli | is that because of the contest? |
| 14:30.30 | Teratron | did any you back Oculus kickstarter ? |
| 14:30.41 | pirate | I don't think |
| 14:31.06 | JademusSreg | Also, pir, got my environment configured, but lacked sufficient clarity and focus to tackle the language definition. |
| 14:31.30 | pirate | ah, sounds like a serious lack of caffeine |
| 14:32.00 | JademusSreg | Haha, nope. |
| 14:32.30 | JademusSreg | Merely been awake since Friday. |
| 14:32.54 | pirate | that can't be good |
| 14:33.19 | JademusSreg | Silly. |
| 14:34.26 | JademusSreg | Gotta finish removing this facial cleansing mask. brb |
| 14:52.08 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 14:53.15 | JademusSreg | As I said yesterday, I have a completely free-time weekend, which is rather rare, so I prefer to not waste it asleep. |
| 14:53.20 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 14:53.42 | pirate | hahahah robot priorities |
| 14:59.33 | pirate | I'm caffienating and planning out my plan of Attack on Reddit |
| 14:59.55 | sonicnite | on my 5th monster energy drink |
| 15:05.39 | JademusSreg | Beware of B6 toxicity. |
| 15:05.48 | pirate | (and sugar) |
| 15:06.01 | sonicnite | its plenty of vitamins |
| 15:06.16 | sonicnite | then u just piss it out |
| 15:08.07 | JademusSreg | Yes, but even water in sufficiently high quantity can kill. B6 toxicity is hilariously common, and often forms a vicious feedback loop, where the symptoms of B6 toxicity such as lethargy and reduced coordination in the legs causes one to think one is tired and in turn drink more. |
| 15:09.44 | JademusSreg | enjoys how Qt was originally produced by a company called Trolltech. |
| 15:10.33 | sonicnite | if u didnt drink it then ud get b12 deficiency |
| 15:11.56 | JademusSreg | Rather like saying if one didn't drink enough vodka, one would get blood glucose deficiency. |
| 15:12.55 | JademusSreg | By which I mean to poke fun at the poor logical construction of the assertion, not say monsterbull doesn't provide B12. |
| 15:13.20 | sonicnite | contains nutrients the regular foods dont carry because vendors cheap out on it |
| 15:15.24 | JademusSreg | B12 is present in a bunch of meats, especially the swimmy ocean meats. =D |
| 15:16.04 | JademusSreg | But if ya never cook, I can see how that would be problematic. |
| 15:17.43 | sonicnite | after u cook it they evaporate |
| 15:18.02 | JademusSreg | =\ |
| 15:18.43 | pirate | lol |
| 15:26.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster charys (43b5dd75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.181.221.117) |
| 15:47.25 | JademusSreg | Would be nice if const could be initilized with functions and natives. Pblblbl. |
| 15:49.36 | Ahli | the problem is that they didn't want to check if a variable is undefined, yet... e.g. the function uses the constant that it wants to initialize |
| 15:50.17 | JademusSreg | Doesn't make it any less inconvenient. |
| 15:56.00 | Ahli | "holistic" seems to be a word that I encounter in every scientific paper I read >_> |
| 15:57.18 | JademusSreg | Ugh. |
| 15:57.48 | JademusSreg | Oftne used in pseudoscience, not a word one should want to employ. |
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| 16:04.55 | ArcanePariah | Good morning, it appears I left right in the middle of an excellent lecture by JademusSreg |
| 16:05.19 | JademusSreg | HAha. |
| 16:08.50 | JademusSreg | Probably would have been better if there had been some participation. =D |
| 16:09.35 | ArcanePariah | Well, I had already read that blog you linked me about SC1 pathfinding |
| 16:10.49 | TheSkunk_ | Grubby commented on one of my arcade images :o |
| 16:10.54 | JademusSreg | Surprising, would have assumed more interest on decem's part, oh wells. |
| 16:24.49 | TheSkunk_ | Does Warix ever hang out in here? |
| 16:25.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster IskatuMesk (4645ef99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.69.239.153) |
| 16:26.35 | Ahli | I don't think so, but he was in at least one map night |
| 16:28.42 | IskatuMesk | sup |
| 16:29.11 | Ahli | reading "Crafting Inforrmation Technology Governance"... =/ |
| 16:29.37 | IskatuMesk | isn't that just fancy talk for "penis enlarger" ? |
| 16:30.05 | Ahli | penis enlarger for researchers, yes |
| 16:31.09 | IskatuMesk | today is the "lol ur old" day for me |
| 16:31.23 | TheSkunk_ | Happy birthday..? |
| 16:31.35 | IskatuMesk | good guess |
| 16:31.36 | IskatuMesk | :3 |
| 16:32.01 | TheSkunk_ | this song seems appropriate given your attituide: http://youtu.be/OzXO_5e8oO0 |
| 16:32.45 | IskatuMesk | aww yess some texan flare |
| 16:33.35 | Ahli | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOhtehPQjdI |
| 16:33.36 | IskatuMesk | the best news I could get today is that we are NOT moving to an apartment |
| 16:33.38 | IskatuMesk | so here's hoping |
| 16:34.12 | TheSkunk_ | GL! |
| 16:53.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.100.127) |
| 16:55.58 | Delphinium | 0.0 |
| 16:56.04 | IskatuMesk | hello delphinium |
| 16:56.11 | Delphinium | Hi |
| 16:56.32 | Delphinium | I have uploaded the MW mod today. |
| 16:56.37 | IskatuMesk | excellent |
| 16:57.03 | Delphinium | But it cost 10 hours already, still does not past the approval |
| 16:57.27 | IskatuMesk | is it on the chinese site? |
| 16:59.03 | Delphinium | Nop, I mean the administorators on SC2mapster. |
| 16:59.20 | IskatuMesk | ah |
| 16:59.27 | IskatuMesk | I didn't know sc2mapster had any active admins left |
| 16:59.53 | IskatuMesk | well, hopefully they get to it soon |
| 16:59.55 | IskatuMesk | I want to see :3 |
| 17:01.30 | Delphinium | I uploaded 15 units I guess, your expectation makes me nervous since not all of them are good enough. |
| 17:01.53 | IskatuMesk | haha, no reason to be nervous. It's not like there is any competition for you |
| 17:02.42 | Delphinium | Anyway, I hope this co-work project can be keep in progress and more members join the modern war maps of SC2. |
| 17:03.55 | Delphinium | And I will keep this Asset mod update if there are such map plans or projects. |
| 17:04.16 | IskatuMesk | well, I for one need quite a few such units |
| 17:04.43 | IskatuMesk | I have some models that could be put into sc2 with a bit of work I have pulled from some places, but I don't think I have the skills to pretty them up yet |
| 17:05.19 | IskatuMesk | I have been focusing on porting easier stuff for now |
| 17:05.30 | IskatuMesk | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Xs0iBew3gss/U8K4XOTjkfI/AAAAAAAAAMA/onXy83aqcAk/s1600/SC2Editor+2014-07-04+12-02-40-74.png |
| 17:07.14 | IskatuMesk | hmm, I wonder if jade finished those textures when I was asleep |
| 17:07.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Guest20111 (~jifengxia@61.74.95.216) |
| 17:08.11 | IskatuMesk | I see one here, excellent |
| 17:10.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.100.127) |
| 17:10.50 | Delphinium | did I miss something? for I am keeping being dropped with no reason. |
| 17:11.16 | IskatuMesk | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Xs0iBew3gss/U8K4XOTjkfI/AAAAAAAAAMA/onXy83aqcAk/s1600/SC2Editor+2014-07-04+12-02-40-74.png |
| 17:11.43 | IskatuMesk | I was just saying I had some other tanks and jets and stuff that could be converted into sc2 but I lack the skills to make them any good currently |
| 17:11.47 | IskatuMesk | so I am focusing on easier stuff like this |
| 17:12.57 | Delphinium | hmm |
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| 17:37.18 | JademusSreg | Been doing AI stuff. brb in a few |
| 17:50.51 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 17:52.33 | JademusSreg | What about admins or moderators or whatever? |
| 17:52.42 | JademusSreg | Something needs approval? |
| 17:55.02 | IskatuMesk | delphinium's release |
| 17:55.30 | IskatuMesk | do you have mod power? |
| 17:55.35 | IskatuMesk | you should accept iot |
| 17:55.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 17:56.07 | JademusSreg | Approved. |
| 17:56.17 | IskatuMesk | capital |
| 17:56.25 | pirate | what's everyone up to |
| 17:56.46 | JademusSreg | I'm doing AI shit until my brain feels like doing something else. |
| 17:57.06 | IskatuMesk | 404 when trying to downloads |
| 17:57.12 | JademusSreg | And also approved Delph's project thingy. |
| 17:57.55 | IskatuMesk | his project 404's |
| 17:57.58 | JademusSreg | Yep, same. http://addons.cursecdn.com/files/799/595/NanaKey_ShareMod_MWV_20140713.SC2Mod |
| 17:58.10 | IskatuMesk | silly mapster |
| 17:59.23 | JademusSreg | Yeah, in the admin access to the file, it says no files uploaded. Weirdever. |
| 18:00.15 | JademusSreg | Could be in the process of uploading, or recently removed. |
| 18:00.37 | JademusSreg | Perhaps Delph hasn't caught on to the approval. |
| 18:05.50 | Delphinium | hmmm, same things happened to my other mods too. |
| 18:06.00 | JademusSreg | Weird. |
| 18:07.17 | Delphinium | it's because of me or policy to some other country file uploading? |
| 18:08.27 | IskatuMesk | when you get disconnected from mapster, does your entire internet die? |
| 18:08.46 | IskatuMesk | or just the irc connection |
| 18:09.04 | IskatuMesk | I wonder if you get disconnected while uploading and it blows up the transfer |
| 18:10.32 | IskatuMesk | I wonder if you can give units circle strafe attacks in sc2 |
| 18:10.34 | IskatuMesk | for that 130 |
| 18:11.04 | JademusSreg | Mesk, I believe so. |
| 18:14.25 | IskatuMesk | I need to make some proper tracer effects |
| 18:22.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
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| 18:24.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (~jifengxia@18.111.66.139) |
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| 18:27.38 | IskatuMesk | :3 |
| 18:28.30 | JademusSreg | =D |
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| 18:35.45 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, working on a custom physical installation of flexible plastic stoppers along the undercarriage diameter of a bounded axial rotation entertainment station for my little larva. |
| 18:38.04 | IskatuMesk | heh. undercarriage. |
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| 18:48.14 | Delphinium | http://www.sc2mapster.com/assets/nanakeys-modernwarasset/ |
| 18:49.22 | Delphinium | It can be downloaded from the new links (directed to attachments of my showcase thread.) |
| 18:49.48 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 18:50.00 | Delphinium | but I still haven't figured out why the 404 errors happened. |
| 18:50.46 | Delphinium | And big thanks to jade, for his attentions and suggestions. things are just too weird to solve. |
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| 18:53.02 | IskatuMesk | fantastic |
| 18:53.06 | IskatuMesk | glad you got it sorted out |
| 18:55.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (~jifengxia@121.133.33.150) |
| 18:58.02 | Delphinium | Sorry for all these troubles. I should contact sc2maspter admins to report this. |
| 18:58.57 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 19:00.50 | JademusSreg | No problem, Delph. |
| 19:01.38 | JademusSreg | Just good fortunate that I have the entire weekend free and am a moderator and you had the problem while I am on. |
| 19:01.41 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 19:04.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Guest20111 (~jifengxia@121.133.33.150) |
| 19:05.03 | Guest20111 | well, I think maybe I have found the reason. |
| 19:05.17 | Guest20111 | the download link has been fixed. |
| 19:06.05 | IskatuMesk | oh? |
| 19:09.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (~jifengxia@121.133.33.150) |
| 19:09.56 | Delphinium | http://puu.sh/a9NY9/234cf84b5b.png |
| 19:10.16 | Delphinium | someone is downloading it, so should work this time. |
| 19:10.53 | JademusSreg | <- |
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| 19:19.46 | Guest20111 | 0.0 |
| 19:19.53 | JademusSreg | And finished anchoring the stabilizing stoppers into the frame; inexplicabley the manufacturer design failed to consider that the stoppers, in order to effectively increase drag on the surface material and prevent movement of the base, needs some means by which to adhere to the base with force exceeding the sheering directional forces of the base being pulled and the stoppers resisting it |
| 19:19.53 | JademusSreg | and fuckin falling off. |
| 19:20.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Guest20111 (jifengxian@60.166.100.127) |
| 19:20.24 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 19:20.46 | Guest20111 | slaps Guest20111 around a bit with a large trout |
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| 19:20.57 | JademusSreg | brb |
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| 19:52.09 | TheSkunk_ | http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2alnuq/blizzard_arcade_contest_top_10_hover_a_fastpaced/ |
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| 20:09.32 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:10.18 | IskatuMesk | I have the potential option of soundproofing a room |
| 20:10.27 | IskatuMesk | although it seems complicated and expensive |
| 20:12.36 | JademusSreg | recalls a scene from Hustle & Flow in which egg cartons were supposedly used to sound-dampen a roon. |
| 20:12.40 | JademusSreg | *room |
| 20:12.51 | IskatuMesk | yeah. something like that. |
| 20:13.17 | IskatuMesk | I was thinking carpets or blankets hanging on the walls, just trying to read up on various solutions and seeing what kind of silly rig I could set up |
| 20:13.27 | IskatuMesk | accoustic foam is retardedly expensive |
| 20:14.14 | IskatuMesk | the alternative solution is to set up sort of a... sound trap around the desk |
| 20:14.14 | JademusSreg | What about harvesting from discarded foam matresses? |
| 20:14.27 | IskatuMesk | it's a possibility |
| 20:15.12 | JademusSreg | brb in a few |
| 20:36.04 | JademusSreg | Brack. |
| 20:36.50 | IskatuMesk | hue |
| 20:44.31 | IskatuMesk | heat rising rapidly |
| 21:00.40 | JademusSreg | Now back to AI shit. |
| 21:06.03 | IskatuMesk | bum butter |
| 21:09.20 | IskatuMesk | well, I hope I don't need to employ this acoustic room idea, but that is my backup plan in the worst case scenario |
| 21:12.43 | TheSkunk_ | Anyone want to play Iron Fire on NA? |
| 21:16.48 | JademusSreg | I spent waay too much time on this gag, but didn't want it to go to waste entirely: https://pastee.org/tvxyd |
| 21:17.20 | JademusSreg | Skunk, info about it, test or playthrough or promotion or what>? |
| 21:41.28 | Ahli | yay |
| 21:42.05 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 21:48.56 | JademusSreg | Celecration without context, woooooo. |
| 21:49.12 | Ahli | soccer is context |
| 21:51.19 | JademusSreg | Ah, thanks. |
| 21:52.49 | IskatuMesk | your context is fase |
| 21:55.11 | IskatuMesk | I have a theorum how I could craft a makeshift sound chamber without resorting to wall mounts |
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| 21:55.23 | IskatuMesk | it would look incredibly silly, but it might work, and I hope I don't have to try it |
| 22:07.35 | Teratron | so guys what do you think about german winning in football ? |
| 22:11.02 | Ahli | good |
| 22:11.58 | JademusSreg | Indifferent. |
| 22:12.21 | Torhal | Zero fucks. |
| 22:12.35 | Teratron | oo |
| 22:12.41 | ArcanePariah | Good game, somewhat expected them to win due to their aggressive playstyle. |
| 22:12.42 | JademusSreg | But in principle, good for them, woo, great application of foot to balls. |
| 22:13.18 | Teratron | I just woke up and saw the final score :P |
| 22:13.54 | Teratron | ehehe i know nobody would probably care around hehe much |
| 22:14.05 | JademusSreg | Though that still-neutral response relies on a fair assement of skill, and the Supar Gloobl Futbol Non-profit Mafia is known for shady shit. |
| 22:14.22 | Teratron | non-profit ? |
| 22:14.24 | JademusSreg | And still indifferent. |
| 22:14.33 | Ahli | officially non-profit |
| 22:14.44 | Ahli | but they have enough money on the bank |
| 22:15.11 | Ahli | and they make countries build stadiums in areas that have no football team |
| 22:15.18 | JademusSreg | 1 billion+ |
| 22:15.34 | JademusSreg | Actually, just to be safe, n billion |
| 22:15.42 | Teratron | the whole world cup or what it was, the 2% i heard about it literally went in and out of my ears in seconds hah |
| 22:15.49 | JademusSreg | Aaand done. |
| 22:16.02 | Teratron | so im not any kind of sports freak |
| 22:16.12 | Teratron | even tho I do sports |
| 22:17.10 | Teratron | the idea of watching others in sports and their drama and how they "help da children" and who they marry with is just not working for me |
| 22:18.24 | Teratron | it's male soap opera, most of these guys would probably get super defensive, but it's the same like spansih shows are for women |
| 22:18.37 | Teratron | spanish* |
| 22:19.41 | Teratron | well ahli china always does it a step further http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/bizarre-chinas-eerie-ghost-cities-arise/ |
| 22:20.42 | Teratron | brb |
| 22:20.44 | ArcanePariah | Grr... why is windows base install so fat... |
| 22:20.58 | JademusSreg | Spoiler: the people all died or migrated. |
| 22:22.20 | Teratron | actually it has to do something with winsxs arcane, not sure if you mean the install or how the OS grows later, but there's also the Installer thing ... installers of all kinds of stuff get copied into there, i found out how windows stores 500MB patch installers for Crysis and even 1.1 GB installer for COD5 WAW |
| 22:22.29 | Teratron | ok gotta go wc brb |
| 22:23.53 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, base frigging install is so fat that I can't install win 7 and sc2 on a 30 gig drive (this is in a VM) |
| 22:23.59 | JademusSreg | Two contributors: backward compatibility means carrying design faults forevar, with all the horror as one might find in Neil Gaiman's short story "Other People". |
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| 22:24.15 | ArcanePariah | Yeah |
| 22:24.25 | ArcanePariah | The other issue is the emulation layer |
| 22:24.46 | ArcanePariah | Basically 2 versions of windows, fully duplicated, running at once, one to interface with x86, other for x64 |
| 22:24.56 | ArcanePariah | So 2 copies of damm near everyything |
| 22:25.13 | JademusSreg | The other contributor being that selection favors those competitors which conserve those units which collectively achieved success. |
| 22:25.32 | ArcanePariah | I seriously hope either win 10 or 11 drops x86 |
| 22:25.38 | ArcanePariah | for just x64 |
| 22:25.50 | ArcanePariah | OS X did it, cut the base install almost in half |
| 22:26.01 | ArcanePariah | Windows server already did it |
| 22:28.51 | JademusSreg | While I seriously hope syncretism takes root and renders various instruction architectures as subsets of a single meta instruction architecture. |
| 22:28.55 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 22:28.56 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 22:31.43 | ArcanePariah | Grr.. tempted to buy another SSD, now that they've become so cheap. |
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| 22:45.21 | IskatuMesk | sup |
| 22:47.06 | Teratron | 30 gig ? |
| 22:48.26 | Teratron | when i bought ssd last year in april, took me only a few days to decide to ignore anything below 120 GB |
| 22:49.08 | Teratron | the whole build took a month |
| 22:50.50 | Teratron | and because it was my first SSD i had spent probably 3 weeks on just research and reviews to end up with Samsung 840 128gb , had to really brainstorm all the differences between MLC SLC types etc |
| 22:51.30 | Teratron | drops x32 arcanepariah lol, i depend on so many x32 programs |
| 22:52.19 | Teratron | it would have made some difference but not pretty much |
| 22:52.50 | Teratron | and also, there's hardlinking going on, so it reports a larger side as it calculcates some stuff from appdata in |
| 22:53.29 | Teratron | and not just that the winsxs folder gets it's components activated according to program compatability, gets hardlinked around the windows install |
| 22:53.49 | Teratron | it's just a little weird not sure exactly in detail |
| 22:54.08 | Teratron | but you should look at the windows/temp folder |
| 22:54.19 | Teratron | and delete everything inside |
| 22:54.35 | Teratron | if you use sleep/standby that folder is probably huge |
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| 22:54.49 | Teratron | lol i've been typing to you for nothing |
| 22:54.54 | Teratron | let me copy it over |
| 22:55.04 | Teratron | 30 gig ? |
| 22:55.10 | Teratron | when i bought ssd last year in april, took me only a few days to decide to ignore anything below 120 GB |
| 22:55.17 | Teratron | the whole build took a month |
| 22:55.25 | Teratron | and because it was my first SSD i had spent probably 3 weeks on just research and reviews to end up with Samsung 840 128gb , had to really brainstorm all the differences between MLC SLC types etc |
| 22:55.36 | Teratron | drops x32 arcanepariah lol, i depend on so many x32 programs |
| 22:55.45 | Teratron | it would have made some difference but not pretty much |
| 22:55.53 | Teratron | and also, there's hardlinking going on, so it reports a larger side as it calculcates some stuff from appdata in |
| 22:56.06 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but this is 30 gigs for a VM disk, would like to fit as many instances as possible, while still being on a SSD for speed. |
| 22:56.08 | Teratron | and not just that the winsxs folder gets it's components activated according to program compatability, gets hardlinked around the windows install |
| 22:56.17 | Teratron | it's just a little weird not sure exactly in detail |
| 22:56.26 | Teratron | but you should look at the windows/temp folder |
| 22:56.31 | Teratron | and delete everything inside |
| 22:56.38 | Teratron | if you use sleep/standby that folder is probably huge |
| 22:56.55 | Teratron | that's it |
| 22:56.58 | ArcanePariah | Nah, this is on a fresh install in a VM, nothing at all present |
| 22:57.19 | ArcanePariah | Brand new x64 install of Win7 takes 17 gigs or so |
| 22:59.00 | Teratron | mine is 18gig now and i have a lot of programs |
| 22:59.06 | Teratron | throughout the year |
| 22:59.13 | Teratron | but not as much as i had probably |
| 22:59.18 | Teratron | i have 10 games too |
| 22:59.50 | Teratron | point is i keep the system well maintained and tweaked so it's not growing, winsxs was the thing that always grew, it's at steady 6.2 GB |
| 23:00.37 | Teratron | and the TEMP folder is silent, probably because of all stupid nonsense services and sleep turned off, i've set up computer for other people and didn't tweak those as much, their TEMP folder grows to sized such as 6 to 22 GB |
| 23:00.56 | IskatuMesk | temp is like my sister, always eating |
| 23:01.18 | Teratron | and this is not appdata temp, this is windows temp, there's a ton of 49823FU99CZ7.TMP files inside, i don't even know what the crap is |
| 23:02.04 | ArcanePariah | In any case, moot issue, Just going to set everything up and clone the VM a bunch of times, as many as possible. Basically my bruteforce method of having multiple copies of the editor open as to work on multiple dependencies for my map. |
| 23:02.22 | ArcanePariah | In efficient, but still doable, might as well give my hardware a workout |
| 23:03.39 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 23:03.48 | IskatuMesk | I want to do that... but so lazy |
| 23:04.25 | ArcanePariah | Mostly because the editor itself can't work my hardware much, got 32 gig ram, quad core, and plenty of SSD space (well not as much as I thought..) but the editor itself is single core, and rarely uses more then 2 gigs of ram. |
| 23:06.47 | Teratron | interesting ... well i could chatter but im going exercising downstairs because the broadcast started ... back in 2 hrs |
| 23:10.32 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:10.41 | IskatuMesk | I only have 12gb, but I have an i7 920 |
| 23:10.46 | IskatuMesk | only thing that stresses that is encoding |
| 23:10.59 | ArcanePariah | MMhhmm |
| 23:11.23 | IskatuMesk | it's too bad I can't like... wrap all the cores into a single logical core |
| 23:11.27 | ArcanePariah | Kinda crazy how abundent powerful computing is. |
| 23:11.45 | ArcanePariah | Well, that's what VM's are for :D |
| 23:11.46 | IskatuMesk | yeah, it's a huge difference from the 3.0ghz dual core I had previous |
| 23:11.50 | IskatuMesk | it's literally 10X as fast |
| 23:12.10 | IskatuMesk | newer cpus are silly |
| 23:12.27 | IskatuMesk | I really wanted to get a hexacore, but that was before this year started and I lost all of my money |
| 23:13.13 | ArcanePariah | Well, in this day and age, for small jobs that you do infrequently, cheaper just to rent the power you need. |
| 23:16.39 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... interesting.... it is amazing how much art assets make a difference in install size. SC2 and D3 are about 14 gigs, Storm is only 4.5 |
| 23:18.26 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 23:18.29 | IskatuMesk | art is huge |
| 23:18.38 | IskatuMesk | my test onslaught juggernaut made a map 30mb |
| 23:18.48 | IskatuMesk | I expect my campaign to exceed 10gb in total very easily |
| 23:19.41 | IskatuMesk | one of my test maps from 2012, with some test music and VA for a few minutes of dialogue, was well over 100mb |
| 23:21.04 | IskatuMesk | what makes art huge is things like each model having multiple texture sets |
| 23:21.48 | IskatuMesk | whereas in wc3 you only worried about diffuse, now you have diffuse, spec, normal, at the minimum, sometimes alpha, sometimes emissive, even if you have downscaled spec, you are still looking at multiple times the size for a single asset, not accounting for increased bone and animation complexity |
| 23:21.48 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 23:22.25 | IskatuMesk | however m3 is pretty good at animation compression |
| 23:22.31 | ArcanePariah | I noticed that for NOTD 2. The custom models we have for each class is maybe 1 MB total. THe associated textures are over 100 MB (mostly because we have multiple texture sets for play customization) |
| 23:22.46 | IskatuMesk | with all export settings set to zero reduction, a *huge* model from lineage 2 with over 300 animations is still only 9mbish |
| 23:23.11 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:23.34 | ArcanePariah | I think we also went with 1024 texture, 2048 ones... good lord... doubt anyone would even want to run it, and the storage would be stupid. |
| 23:23.40 | IskatuMesk | as a comparison, the mesh format for sins of a solar empire commonly reaches 10-20mb for models of similar complexity but with zero animations or bones |
| 23:23.57 | IskatuMesk | many of my textures will be 2kx2k, most of the lineage 2 stuff is pretty small though |
| 23:24.19 | ArcanePariah | And I bet some lunatics out there with big epeen and big machines (and no clue) want 4k textures. |
| 23:24.27 | IskatuMesk | me :3 |
| 23:24.44 | IskatuMesk | unfortunately 4k is a waste with dds compression in most cases |
| 23:25.05 | ArcanePariah | Well... wouldn't putting nothing but 4k textures in a game just balloon the install size to something north of 100 gigs for modern games with little to show for it? |
| 23:25.20 | IskatuMesk | personally, I'd love to use 4k for terrain |
| 23:25.25 | IskatuMesk | less tiling, mor fidelity |
| 23:25.45 | IskatuMesk | but in the same hand, real engines have way more control over how textures look, and how materials look, and you no longer need 4k |
| 23:25.48 | ArcanePariah | <-- Ignorant of the techical tradeoffs of high textures other then quadratic size scaling of space. |
| 23:26.11 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, so higher textures are good, but current tools/tricks/optimizations make them unncessary most of the time? |
| 23:26.16 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:26.31 | IskatuMesk | like for example you can randomize and interblend various textures to avoid tiling issues |
| 23:26.39 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I hear you on terrain, 4k would do wonders there, terrain is where low texs are REALLY obvious |
| 23:26.56 | ArcanePariah | At least to me |
| 23:27.01 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:27.05 | IskatuMesk | sc2 is particularly bad with terrain |
| 23:27.18 | IskatuMesk | it has some very weird artifacting on the normal textures |
| 23:27.28 | IskatuMesk | dds is bad for that, but the terrain in sc2 is particularly bad |
| 23:27.31 | ArcanePariah | Low textures on models, meh, espcially if camera is far away, but terrain... it will ALWAYS be obvious. |
| 23:27.39 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:27.59 | IskatuMesk | well these lineage 2 models, they're using like 512x512 most of the time |
| 23:28.02 | IskatuMesk | but the detail is crazy |
| 23:28.05 | IskatuMesk | because of smart UV use |
| 23:28.20 | ArcanePariah | Well... I wonder if by design, they wanted people to hide it with doodads. As you probably know, you can assign models to texture tiles for foilages and thus obscure the terrain a bit with a clusterfuck of generate foilage. |
| 23:28.31 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/qWV262P.png |
| 23:28.46 | IskatuMesk | yeah, that's certainly a role of foliage |
| 23:28.54 | ArcanePariah | Wow.... dat model. |
| 23:28.59 | ArcanePariah | Jesus, that's nice |
| 23:29.09 | IskatuMesk | that's from unreal warfare era |
| 23:29.16 | IskatuMesk | I generated subtle normals for it |
| 23:29.42 | ArcanePariah | The detail is incredible, the textures are awesome (non art person here, somewhat easily impressed, but...) |
| 23:29.42 | IskatuMesk | once jade fixies up some textures for it, I'll have a way to split the gold shine from the body |
| 23:29.49 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:29.59 | IskatuMesk | asian artists man |
| 23:30.17 | ArcanePariah | Details Details Details... whoever made that is a very detailed person. |
| 23:30.24 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/rpuA1Ew.png |
| 23:30.28 | IskatuMesk | character model |
| 23:30.54 | IskatuMesk | again they don't have normals or anything by default, I had to make those, and I go for subtle to avoid the glossy look sc2 has |
| 23:31.09 | ArcanePariah | Nice... funny enough, even though people were bashing on Nvidia for it, hair is incredibly hard to do right, and Nvidia is trying to improve that. |
| 23:31.17 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:31.20 | IskatuMesk | hair in sc2 is tough as shit especially |
| 23:31.28 | ArcanePariah | Hair period is tough as shit |
| 23:31.33 | IskatuMesk | I really can't get that shiny but non-glossy look |
| 23:31.52 | ArcanePariah | Since you have variable transparency subject to a trillion light reflections and interactions. |
| 23:31.53 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/Us4fF7V.png |
| 23:31.59 | IskatuMesk | this is what higher rez textures let you do |
| 23:32.17 | IskatuMesk | he has normal definition on his skin without looking overly shiny |
| 23:32.28 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, yes, the scales look good and popped out, not a smooth blend shiny look |
| 23:32.36 | ArcanePariah | Same with muscles |
| 23:33.01 | IskatuMesk | I upped the spec on the swords so they'd reflect light better, makes them more catching |
| 23:33.08 | IskatuMesk | then I don't need to have silly trails on them or whatever when they swing |
| 23:33.47 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/soWRaV0.jpg this has 6x 4kx4k textures, but the compression from sc2 *butchered* them |
| 23:33.49 | IskatuMesk | and they came out like shit |
| 23:34.00 | IskatuMesk | that is the old tools though, it might look better with the blizzard ones |
| 23:34.09 | IskatuMesk | but I can't actually export it with the new ones because of the object limit :3 |
| 23:34.15 | ArcanePariah | I wonder if GPU's will ever get the capability to render layered textures in a natural way, ie show REAL skin/flesh. Right now it is almost impossible to do skin since you basically have to model the multiple layers all the way down to your veins, which would requires like 5 sets+ of textures per model... which would take surreal power and storage. |
| 23:34.34 | IskatuMesk | you can probably get close with unreal 4 |
| 23:34.37 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, SC2 butchered it, its that bad that I can tell |
| 23:34.53 | ArcanePariah | The long side hull plating looks... bleh |
| 23:34.58 | IskatuMesk | unreal 3 can do a lot of crazy texture shit, some if it quite performance intensive |
| 23:35.18 | IskatuMesk | most games don't use it because of consoles though |
| 23:35.32 | ArcanePariah | I know some of this is hard simply due to the math, its the kind of problems that no one has found a decent faster way of doing it. |
| 23:35.37 | ArcanePariah | Like hair. |
| 23:35.39 | ArcanePariah | And skin |
| 23:35.40 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:35.47 | IskatuMesk | believe it or not, lava too |
| 23:35.56 | IskatuMesk | good, convincing lava is some kind of dark art |
| 23:36.14 | IskatuMesk | honestly, despite its simplicity, sc2 is one of the only games to have non-cheesy looking lava |
| 23:36.18 | ArcanePariah | Nah, I believe it, lava is something that is fundamentally impossible, because to do it right, you would have to be solving Navier Stokes equations non stop |
| 23:36.33 | ArcanePariah | In order to perfectly model the flow and thus the appearance |
| 23:36.37 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:37.02 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/RoYeSsc.png |
| 23:37.06 | IskatuMesk | tera character model |
| 23:37.17 | IskatuMesk | notice how the hair blends out into this moir mess, that's an issue with being too high detail |
| 23:37.20 | ArcanePariah | Dunno if you know about Navier Stokes, but they are equations that solve for dynamic liquid flow, and they are NP complete, which means they can only be bruteforced for solutions. |
| 23:37.33 | ArcanePariah | Yeah |
| 23:37.39 | IskatuMesk | I don't, but I suspect it's one of the reasons why no one has ever attempted realistic lava |
| 23:38.05 | ArcanePariah | Yes, because lava appearance is very dependent on how it flows... so you would need to model it in real time. :D |
| 23:38.16 | IskatuMesk | that model, for RTS view, I will need to do some serious texture work on the hair |
| 23:38.32 | IskatuMesk | it looks ok being small for everything except the hair, because the hair is a series of contrasting bands, and those always turn into a mess |
| 23:39.05 | IskatuMesk | I can probably halve the resolution on most of it though |
| 23:39.18 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... we need more powerful game engines that are more granular (ie actually try to render each strand as a single strand). |
| 23:39.32 | IskatuMesk | TrexFX or whatever it's called seems quite interesting |
| 23:39.46 | ArcanePariah | But probably not going to happen, rendering in real time the physics of the hair collisions and then the light interactions... |
| 23:39.52 | IskatuMesk | however, when it comes to middleware like that, if you don't have the source and implement it yourself.. yeah |
| 23:40.04 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I think that's the project I was referrring to that Nvidia was working on/with |
| 23:40.09 | IskatuMesk | it's AMD |
| 23:40.13 | ArcanePariah | Ahh |
| 23:40.23 | IskatuMesk | with unreal 4 you could do it, since you get the full source |
| 23:40.36 | ArcanePariah | Still, good that they are doing so. Hair is so amazingly obvious, but so amazingly hard... |
| 23:40.41 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:40.50 | ArcanePariah | One of those things that trips the uncanny valley fast |
| 23:40.54 | IskatuMesk | I had major issues just getting sc2 physics to work |
| 23:41.18 | IskatuMesk | I needed to set up a dress with physics because it had no animations, but I could only rig one half of it. If I put any other object into the scene, it all spazzes out |
| 23:41.39 | IskatuMesk | setting up more complex stuff would be... interesting |
| 23:41.53 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, the AMD work looks very nice |
| 23:42.18 | ArcanePariah | And definitely improves the overall appearance |
| 23:42.58 | IskatuMesk | baked physics animations are fine for most applications, but if I was making a DMC-style ARPG like I've always wanted to, I'd want the real deal |
| 23:44.23 | IskatuMesk | I played a bit with Nvidia PhysX in my futile effort to get that dress to work, but it depends on existing animations |
| 23:44.23 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I think AI and physics is probably the current focus for game engine tech, because the actual rendering is fairly solved, its doing the complex physics of bodies and then doing the rendering that's hard now. |
| 23:44.37 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 23:44.44 | IskatuMesk | unfortunately AI gets ignored by most devs :\ |
| 23:44.57 | ArcanePariah | Well, because AI is.... a tricky subject. |
| 23:45.01 | IskatuMesk | I haven't played hardly any games I would consider to have passable AI for internal QA, much less a release |
| 23:45.06 | IskatuMesk | well, this is like, incredibly basic stuff |
| 23:45.24 | IskatuMesk | most god of war style ARPG's, the AI can't navigate past objects, see collision, or go up Z levels |
| 23:45.31 | IskatuMesk | only DMC1-4 does that |
| 23:45.36 | ArcanePariah | The problem is that AI can only take a few forms, and each has its own tradeoffs. |
| 23:46.06 | ArcanePariah | Could I make an AI that is good? Sure, but it would A) Use up an increasing amount of your CPU and memory and possibly diskspace and B) eventually would be unstoppable and not fun. |
| 23:46.10 | IskatuMesk | sc2 despite its bustedness is still the most advanced non-TBS AI I've seen in a long time |
| 23:46.26 | IskatuMesk | and it has a lot of critical fundamental flaws that would be easily fixed with some QA |
| 23:46.35 | IskatuMesk | I think the issue to AI is largely in approach |
| 23:46.55 | ArcanePariah | Well yeah, they actually have a fairly robust library of AI functions and also functions that handle real game scenarios. |
| 23:47.03 | ArcanePariah | Well, you are limted to pre programming the AI |
| 23:47.04 | IskatuMesk | people see AI as one of a few facets - something that "learns" (which is a really bad start already), something that is "hard" by functioning from input reading instead of simple logic, etc |
| 23:47.30 | IskatuMesk | an AI doesn't need to be super sophisticated to do its job, really |
| 23:47.37 | ArcanePariah | Well... the problem is that AI has to be flawed in its thinking to compensate for the fact the AI is perfect in mechanical skill. |
| 23:47.47 | ArcanePariah | Ai's can cast 10 spells all over the map |
| 23:47.51 | ArcanePariah | A human can't |
| 23:48.11 | IskatuMesk | that is generally okay, depending what the spells are, what the player's spells are, etc. |
| 23:48.13 | ArcanePariah | IE' the AI can be made to perfect micro, which throws out a TON of strategies. |
| 23:48.31 | IskatuMesk | what isn't okay is stuff like... I have X move and AI *always* performs Y move that is faster to interrupt (input reading) |
| 23:48.32 | ArcanePariah | I would hate to fight a terran AI who can perfectly aim seeker missiles, or perfect marine split, etc. |
| 23:48.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster phil___ (475a5c79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.90.92.121) |
| 23:48.46 | IskatuMesk | oh, you'll love jade's raven AI |
| 23:49.02 | IskatuMesk | so many turrets |
| 23:49.03 | IskatuMesk | it's beautiful |
| 23:49.05 | ArcanePariah | Well yeah, SC2 Ai support near perfect aiming. The campaign HT |
| 23:49.12 | ArcanePariah | has functions to perfectly aim its storms |
| 23:49.19 | IskatuMesk | yep |
| 23:49.24 | IskatuMesk | that;s what I love about sc2 |
| 23:49.28 | IskatuMesk | and what I always wanted in sc1 |
| 23:49.30 | ArcanePariah | In the editor, data -> Advanced -> Target Finds |
| 23:49.39 | ArcanePariah | Target finds let them aim shit to whatever you want |
| 23:50.09 | ArcanePariah | based on unit hp, number hit, score count, and also can adjust the "damage" arbitrarily |
| 23:50.09 | IskatuMesk | while I probably won't have perfect marine splits, most of my enemy units will have "smart" spellcasting, and it's up to the player to create disadvantages for them |
| 23:50.11 | IskatuMesk | or to bait them |
| 23:50.21 | phil___ | quick question regarding copying a unit. It's my understanding that "copy from" after creating a new unit is the correct way to go. However I noticed in the context of burrowed (or units with different states I assume) overwrite their "copy from" unit's name |
| 23:50.30 | phil___ | the text key "Unit/Name/Ultralisk" for example |
| 23:50.47 | ArcanePariah | Ok, the deal with text is that what you see is the Text Key |
| 23:50.56 | phil___ | yeah |
| 23:51.00 | ArcanePariah | Text keys then reference the current locale |
| 23:51.04 | IskatuMesk | like, a flock of perfect ravens controlled by AI is still going to have a really hard time dealing with intelligent kiting because it's something you can't really program for |
| 23:51.10 | phil___ | yeah |
| 23:51.15 | phil___ | I understand how to get around the problem |
| 23:51.23 | phil___ | just wondering if deleting that reference is the best way to go |
| 23:51.34 | phil___ | or if copying a unit in a different manner avoids the problem altogether |
| 23:51.46 | phil___ | sorry - I should let you finish |
| 23:51.47 | ArcanePariah | When it copies, it fails to create new key entries, so it uses the old entry. What you will want is to create new text entries. And duplicating avoids this issue |
| 23:52.06 | phil___ | for some reason I thought duplicating was the incorrect way to go |
| 23:52.13 | phil___ | at least you guys all complain about it haha |
| 23:52.25 | ArcanePariah | Well, duplicating is something you should only do if you understand why it works. |
| 23:52.32 | phil___ | ah I see |
| 23:52.48 | ArcanePariah | Copying just makes literally a new entry, that is exactly the same as the old. |
| 23:53.00 | ArcanePariah | Duplicate creates a new entry, with the values of the old. |
| 23:53.06 | ArcanePariah | I hope you can see the difference |
| 23:53.09 | phil___ | for sure |
| 23:53.18 | phil___ | my avoidance of duplication was my problem then |
| 23:53.51 | ArcanePariah | Also duplicating is powerful because you can choose what entries are created as duplicates vs not. This can be helpful later to create copies of entire sections of entries. For example, multi level abilties that are all similar |
| 23:54.10 | ArcanePariah | With copy, you would have to copy all the entries, then link them back together. |
| 23:54.18 | phil___ | hmm |
| 23:54.19 | ArcanePariah | With duplicate, it will create the new copies, already linked |
| 23:54.26 | phil___ | gotcha |
| 23:54.53 | phil___ | and before I dive any deeper into morphing effects/actors, are there any gotchas I should be weary of? |
| 23:55.17 | phil___ | Nothing hit me yet, but I only got so far as to turn an ultralisk into an egg haha |
| 23:56.30 | ArcanePariah | Morphing is a unique ability in that it transforms a unit directly into another. You can controll in the ability how long before each part of the unit (the actor, the model, the unit stats) actually change to the new one. In the actor, normally one does a model swap. Morphing is strang and powerful in that the actor for the new unit is different but the model from the original is retained. |
| 23:57.10 | IskatuMesk | fuck I hate captcha |
| 23:57.18 | ArcanePariah | In general, there is Actor terms (think of them as conditionals for the actor message happening) to check both the unit you are morphing from, and the unit you are morphing to |
| 23:57.25 | phil___ | yeah, what really confused me about the morphing actor was all the inherited events |
| 23:57.28 | phil___ | there are so many |
| 23:57.37 | phil___ | okay |
| 23:57.39 | ArcanePariah | Yes, because the actor must handle multiple edge cases |
| 23:58.06 | IskatuMesk | anyways, when designing my campaign, super smart AI and ability-driven combat is something I am definitely wary about. Feedback, snipe, mind control, fungal growth etc are all incredibly aggravating, powerful, and offer virtually no counterplay, and in the hands of a super strong AI, are super unfair |
| 23:58.10 | ArcanePariah | namely, what to do when transforming, what to dom when transform complete, what to do when transform is cancelled, what to do when tranform is interrupted due to other events (death, etc.) |
| 23:58.13 | IskatuMesk | so I am removing most stuff like that or redesigning them |
| 23:58.20 | phil___ | ah |
| 23:58.56 | phil___ | alright - I'll plan on handling any edge cases as they arise then. At least my plan is to first get it working then refine as bugs pop up |
| 23:59.09 | ArcanePariah | IskatuMesk, yes, due to those skills being either hard cc or reliant on judgement calls (which an AI will be perfect in for a given situation) |
| 23:59.21 | IskatuMesk | not sure about seeker missile yet, I'm a bit concerned about it in its original form being too strong |
| 23:59.22 | ArcanePariah | phil___, I understand you have a software/CS background? |
| 23:59.26 | phil___ | yes |
| 23:59.56 | phil___ | And IskatuMesk - I found it pretty funny how you can control the AI apm limit |
