| 01:08.32 | JademusSreg | Same way I play Bethesda games, haha. |
| 01:08.58 | Dustin_Hendricks | JademusSreg, what you been up to lately |
| 01:10.25 | JademusSreg | Been contributing to Mesks's campaign and applying to Blizz, in addition to the usual. |
| 01:19.47 | JademusSreg | Oh, Mesk, got a solution to the AI system, shouldn't require gutting the standard melee scripts. |
| 01:20.58 | JademusSreg | Instead, can simply use the same system used to designate melee AI strategies. |
| 01:21.45 | IskatuMesk | hmm? |
| 01:22.01 | IskatuMesk | I think I need to re-convert this WoW model and re-rig all of the animations. God damnit. |
| 01:22.15 | IskatuMesk | well, if I want the mutilate animation, at least. |
| 01:26.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster Guest71234 (~herolief@c-24-0-67-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 01:26.35 | IskatuMesk | Now I have to decide which model source I have will best suit drow |
| 01:27.10 | IskatuMesk | probably will just wait for WoD updated models |
| 01:32.36 | IskatuMesk | jade, is it skin-melting hot where you are? |
| 01:32.58 | Bounty | Anyone ever use these tutorials for Unity https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYbK_tjZ2OrIZFBvU6CCMiA ? |
| 01:33.37 | JademusSreg | Warm, humid, but I'm blasting AC. |
| 01:34.05 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-212-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:34.11 | IskatuMesk | lucky bastard |
| 01:34.21 | IskatuMesk | to have AC... to live the dream... |
| 01:51.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Eric@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:07.21 | Dustin_Hendricks | Mesk's campaign? What's it called? |
| 02:09.37 | JademusSreg | Apex, informally. |
| 02:13.35 | Dustin_Hendricks | Interesting, haven't heard anything about it yet |
| 02:16.26 | JademusSreg | Defining characteristic is brutal difficulty. |
| 02:16.33 | JademusSreg | Which is putting it mildly. |
| 02:18.09 | ArcanePariah | Hopefully balanced |
| 02:20.09 | Dustin_Hendricks | Freenode's username length is too low |
| 02:20.21 | Dustin_Hendricks | Can't fit my whole name >.< |
| 02:25.14 | JademusSreg | Hendricksothorshammerson? |
| 02:26.16 | Dustin_Hendricks | Damn how'd you know my whole lastname |
| 02:26.37 | JademusSreg | Lucky guess, probably. |
| 02:26.40 | IskatuMesk | Apex F |
| 02:26.48 | IskatuMesk | F being how many revision iterations it has had |
| 02:26.49 | Dustin_Hendricks | hehe I wish that was my last name |
| 02:27.20 | IskatuMesk | my track record for balance has been quite decent, but I'm aiming for cave-style design |
| 02:28.19 | IskatuMesk | anyone who found the vanilla campaigns difficult won't be able to clear the tutorial I don't think |
| 02:28.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 02:28.51 | ArcanePariah | lol well, WoL campaign could be beaten entirely with medic marine on brutal except the last level. |
| 02:28.55 | IskatuMesk | yep |
| 02:29.59 | IskatuMesk | I'm getting into arcade titles and more difficult older games in my LP's. R-Type 3, Rondo of Blood, etc. |
| 02:30.11 | IskatuMesk | that's the kind of difficulty I'm aiming for early into the campaign |
| 02:30.42 | IskatuMesk | of course, translating that into an RTS is difficult, but the mere fact the AI uses player-styled supply counts and defends itself is a big change alone |
| 02:32.09 | IskatuMesk | Dustin, you won't hear much about the campaign because it's private |
| 02:32.29 | IskatuMesk | I'm not big on posting public information. The most I'll post is some stuff about graphics, and some dev videos on campaign creations in the future |
| 02:33.07 | IskatuMesk | for example, I have a partly-completed audio-only monologue that talks about my approach to world building in terms of writing and applying that world to a project |
| 02:33.17 | IskatuMesk | but that sort of stuff doesn't typically interest most people. |
| 02:35.55 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, I need to test my solution to the AI personality configuration issue. |
| 02:38.28 | Dustin_Hendricks | Cools |
| 02:38.45 | Dustin_Hendricks | I need to shift my focus and start working on my Physical/Digital boardgame |
| 02:41.22 | Dustin_Hendricks | Stuck on some electrical engineering descisions right now on how I want to design the tiles and heroes so that my RaspberryPi knows which tile and which hero is on which grid space |
| 02:42.07 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 02:42.27 | IskatuMesk | my programming skills are limited to inserting random things and crashing games on contact, but couldn't a grid be an array? with a number corresponding to each tile? |
| 02:43.05 | Dustin_Hendricks | Ya but that's software side I can program the system all day but I need a physical way for my Computer to talk to the board persay |
| 02:44.29 | Dustin_Hendricks | Was thinking about using contacts on each Tile/Hero and have pins setup on each grid, then have capacitors on each type. If i get a voltage of 1.0 back it'd be a Water tile, 2.0 it's a grass tile. then somehow make an algorithm to factor in hero voltages on the tile as well |
| 02:45.03 | Dustin_Hendricks | Right now I have a 8x8 grid LED Matrix setup for controlling tile display for attacking/moving etc |
| 02:46.36 | IskatuMesk | electrical engineering was something I wish I had the opportunity to get into |
| 02:46.44 | IskatuMesk | closest I got was watching wires melt off of a transformer |
| 02:47.08 | Dustin_Hendricks | Yeah me too, I've been playing around with it a lot lately though to try to comeup with ways to make my idea work. |
| 02:47.12 | JademusSreg | Linear sequence for non-overlapping values in the same set, each set offset by the size of the preceding set. |
| 02:47.37 | ArcanePariah | Dustin, what you probably want is muxes |
| 02:47.46 | ArcanePariah | One for each type of tile |
| 02:47.56 | ArcanePariah | Or even a single mux, with 4 states |
| 02:48.05 | ArcanePariah | Or however many types of tiles |
| 02:48.26 | Dustin_Hendricks | Haven't heard of that before, what's a mux? |
| 02:49.17 | ArcanePariah | A muxer is a device that takes 2 inputs, and a 3rd one as a switch. If the switch is high, 1 input is passed through, if the switch is low, the other one is passed. |
| 02:49.36 | ArcanePariah | Though, now that I've said that, you don't really need that |
| 02:49.43 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 02:49.49 | Dustin_Hendricks | lol |
| 02:49.55 | ArcanePariah | Just need 1 or 2 pins to represent tile type |
| 02:50.29 | Dustin_Hendricks | Ya the tile type isn't too bad, it's when I try to tack on Hero type and tile type where it gets tricky |
| 02:50.40 | ArcanePariah | ??? |
| 02:50.53 | ArcanePariah | Well, in that case, that's where a mux comes in handy. |
| 02:50.55 | Dustin_Hendricks | The system has to know what hero is on which grid space as well as the tile under him |
| 02:51.07 | Dustin_Hendricks | Wonder if I can setup a matrix of Muxes |
| 02:51.11 | ArcanePariah | Mux can signal that you passing tile type or hero on each clock |
| 02:51.32 | Dustin_Hendricks | And if there are any supported by the Pi |
| 02:51.49 | Dustin_Hendricks | I thought about weight sensors on each tile too |
| 02:51.51 | ArcanePariah | Well... a mux is simply something you set high or low |
| 02:52.39 | ArcanePariah | I would just make the communication of a given tile take 2 clock cycles, first one passes tile type, 2nd passes hero |
| 02:54.06 | ArcanePariah | Oh, and I apologize for using the shorthand. Mux is the shorthand for multiplexer |
| 02:55.16 | ArcanePariah | And yes, you could have a network of muxes, or just have multiple muxes. Muxes allow you to control the datapath for an electrical system, so you can signal on different clock cycles for the control to do different things (read, load, store, etc.) |
| 02:56.09 | ArcanePariah | Like a mux is used in a typical cpu clock cycle to indicate whether the next instruction to be executed is a coming from a jump or from the program counter |
| 02:56.34 | ArcanePariah | So it knows which input to read the memory location for the next instruction |
| 02:57.02 | ArcanePariah | I'm assuming you are using the GPIO pins on the PI for this. |
| 03:03.32 | Teratron | hello |
| 03:03.38 | Teratron | is there any code limit for triggers ? |
| 03:03.43 | Teratron | size, number of actions, etc ? |
| 03:04.17 | Teratron | the calculations are super simple and not all of them run at the same time (switch) |
| 03:04.38 | ArcanePariah | I believe you can have up to 2^24 global variables, but other then that... dunno |
| 03:05.48 | Teratron | but there's about a thousand if-else statements with 12 thousand conditions |
| 03:06.34 | IskatuMesk | what exactly are you trying to calculate with all of that? the mass of my mom? |
| 03:07.43 | Teratron | a little sorting, old style |
| 03:08.06 | Teratron | the trigger takes 5 seconds to load in UI |
| 03:19.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Caz (329ebbca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.158.187.202) |
| 03:20.13 | Caz | Bounty - where are you !? |
| 03:23.26 | Caz | Anyone see that diablo remake game ? |
| 03:23.40 | Caz | pretty impressive |
| 03:23.51 | Bounty | Whats up Caz? |
| 03:24.02 | Caz | Bounty !!! |
| 03:24.16 | Caz | I totally just made my only opponent in tessera rage quit the game |
| 03:24.20 | Caz | AND IT DIDNT SAY I WON |
| 03:24.23 | Caz | WTF !? |
| 03:24.45 | Caz | It left me to roam the game in limbo in search of non-existant enemy T___T |
| 03:24.53 | Bounty | sorry >.< |
| 03:24.56 | Teratron | that's totally todlier man! |
| 03:25.45 | Caz | I'm kinda not mapping much anymore myself D: |
| 03:25.59 | Dustin_Hendricks | Correct Arcane, using the GPIO pins on the PI as well as a Backpack for my LED Matrix |
| 03:26.13 | Caz | Although for a week or 2 i'll be programming in C++ to get/sort data from a serial device :3 |
| 03:26.24 | Bounty | I am personally done Caz and I will be moving to Unity. Hopefully with successful results. |
| 03:26.53 | Caz | Bounty sounds fun. The scripting for unity more resembles c++ |
| 03:27.20 | Bounty | Yeah, I've watched a few tutorials. Looks intimidating at first but I'm sure once I get beyond that I will be fine. |
| 03:28.42 | Caz | At work i do grain inspection.. and the state told us we have to have a program to get data from the moisture/test-weight machines and move them onto the computer and sort them by which company they were for. |
| 03:28.56 | Caz | So i've decided to write one in c++ as a project |
| 03:29.20 | ArcanePariah | Caz, sounds interesting |
| 03:30.10 | Caz | ArcanePriah - aye its fun. Hooked upt he moisture machines to the computers with rs232 cable from the machine to usb adapter ont he pc side since it doesnt have rs232 ports |
| 03:30.27 | Caz | settins all match so happy happy hardware.. just need software to work lol |
| 03:31.14 | ArcanePariah | Yep |
| 03:31.48 | ArcanePariah | Now just a matter of reading off the port. Libraries should already exist to help you handle that. |
| 03:33.03 | Caz | i'm going fairly masochistic on that one. Using WINAPI rather than wrapper or preexisting serialport class |
| 03:33.16 | Caz | i'd kinda need to understand the whole thing to use a premade class anyway. |
| 03:33.24 | Caz | learning alot about serial communication |
| 03:33.27 | ArcanePariah | Oh, you have to do this on windows? :/ |
| 03:33.39 | Caz | I've only ever used windows honestly. And both our machines are win8 |
| 03:34.42 | Caz | Alot of the documentation wants u to spawn an additional thread and use an event driven "wait" function to be signaled. Kinda rather just do polling in a single thread lol |
| 03:35.53 | Caz | whether its you or the system.. somebody is gonna be polling to see if a state has changed lol |
| 03:36.13 | Teratron | hello |
| 03:36.18 | Caz | *waves Teratron* |
| 03:36.21 | Teratron | need hhelp |
| 03:36.33 | Caz | dial 911 |
| 03:36.38 | Teratron | i have a "did not finish" script that's not working fine |
| 03:37.24 | Teratron | basically what i wanted to do is to check for player's units "if they not exist" for some period of time (like 5 seconds") but the script is not perfect it doesn't work well |
| 03:37.39 | Teratron | because the units teleport and disappear before new units spawn |
| 03:38.11 | Teratron | i did many delays before and after but it just didn't work so i have to scrap and start over the whole design of this "DNF Scanner" i call it |
| 03:38.57 | Caz | what do you mean by player's units ? |
| 03:39.01 | Caz | as in he does not have any units ? |
| 03:39.44 | Teratron | yeah |
| 03:39.53 | Caz | so if he has no units for 5 seconds, what happens ? |
| 03:40.02 | Teratron | if the units get destroyed and the player didn't finish task, he won't be able to respawn |
| 03:40.17 | Teratron | nothing happens in the game, it's just dead end |
| 03:40.33 | Caz | so you want them to respawn? |
| 03:40.35 | Teratron | so i want to detect that and display some messages and other actions |
| 03:41.25 | Caz | Mhh i see |
| 03:41.28 | Teratron | the system i used was basic and didn't work, because the script even tho it was every 15 seconds or every 10 second or every 5 seconds would have at least 10% chance landing on the moment when the units are teleporting |
| 03:41.56 | Teratron | no teleporting technically, old ones get destroyed before new ones spawn there's a delay at least 1 second |
| 03:42.34 | Caz | You could just keep count of the number of units the player has |
| 03:42.42 | Caz | and notify him with your message when the count is 0 |
| 03:43.12 | Teratron | the script needs to fire off when it detects no units in area, but then it has to count how many seconds there are no units for the player, as soon as the new units spawn the script must abort silently and not execute the "Failure" actions |
| 03:43.57 | Caz | Check all units in region .. and count how many are both owned by player1 and alive |
| 03:44.03 | Caz | if count = 0 |
| 03:44.06 | Caz | display message |
| 03:44.24 | Teratron | that i know, what about the 5 second requirement ? |
| 03:44.43 | Teratron | if the count is 0 for 5 seconds |
| 03:45.08 | Caz | hmm you could |
| 03:45.39 | Caz | have 2 checks |
| 03:45.58 | Teratron | i did that already |
| 03:46.03 | Teratron | stacked conditions |
| 03:46.13 | Teratron | with a delay between |
| 03:46.18 | Caz | check1- if no units alive for player1 in region1 ---> launch 5s timer that sets off check2 |
| 03:46.22 | Teratron | believe me i did all that |
| 03:46.24 | Caz | lol |
| 03:46.34 | Teratron | i did exactly that |
| 03:46.46 | Teratron | well i didn't use timer i used waits |
| 03:47.22 | Caz | can i see it ? |
| 03:47.29 | Teratron | and i did it by unit ID not by count, so i'll change that right now |
| 03:48.07 | Caz | every unit should be checked for owned by player1 and alive (snagging dead units would be bad) |
| 03:48.18 | Teratron | ok |
| 03:49.39 | Caz | count =0; |
| 03:49.41 | Caz | For [units in region1] --> IF(unit is owner = player1 AND unit is alive) count = count+1 |
| 03:50.06 | Caz | if count = 0 (zomg he has no units!) |
| 03:50.28 | Caz | wait 5s |
| 03:50.59 | Caz | count =0 |
| 03:51.06 | Caz | For [units in region1] --> IF(unit is owner = player1 AND unit is alive) count = count+1 |
| 03:51.22 | Caz | if count = 0 --> activate special stuff |
| 03:52.01 | Caz | I have a question though |
| 03:52.04 | Caz | when a unit dies |
| 03:52.13 | Caz | can he get it back? |
| 03:52.23 | Teratron | no |
| 03:52.31 | Teratron | all pre-defined pre-set |
| 03:52.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-140-107.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:52.42 | Teratron | count and type |
| 03:52.45 | Caz | then why do you wait 5 seconds to check again |
| 03:52.47 | Caz | when ua lreayd know |
| 03:52.51 | Caz | he cant have more than 0 |
| 03:52.53 | Caz | once he hits 0 |
| 03:53.22 | Caz | if he has exactly 5 units |
| 03:53.29 | Teratron | the game hits 0 also when destroying old ones and spawning new ones |
| 03:53.43 | Caz | what do you mean ? |
| 03:53.53 | Teratron | that what i just said |
| 03:54.04 | Caz | destroying old and spawning new |
| 03:54.06 | Caz | u said he cant get new ones |
| 03:54.07 | Caz | just the 5 |
| 03:54.08 | Teratron | there is a period of zero units for the player |
| 03:54.19 | Teratron | that period happens at spawning |
| 03:54.23 | Caz | just at start ? |
| 03:54.31 | Teratron | 10 times during the game |
| 03:54.35 | Teratron | for 10 players |
| 03:54.40 | Teratron | 10x10 is a lot of chances |
| 03:54.50 | Teratron | the old script is unreliable |
| 03:55.00 | Caz | ponder this a moment |
| 03:55.20 | Teratron | it executed the "failure" actions when the player was playing as designed |
| 03:55.50 | Caz | global int player1UnitCount =5; |
| 03:56.05 | Teratron | i never said there's 5 units |
| 03:56.15 | Caz | 5 can be wahtever number u use |
| 03:56.16 | Caz | obviously |
| 03:56.17 | Teratron | i always talked about seconds |
| 03:56.29 | Caz | 50 500 12345 |
| 03:56.33 | Caz | however many u start them with |
| 03:56.36 | Caz | irrelevent |
| 03:56.51 | Teratron | you mentioned a max of 5 previously |
| 03:56.56 | Teratron | for some reason |
| 03:57.42 | Caz | EventOnUnitDeath, If unitOwner(eventUnit) = player1 Then: subtract 1 from player1UnitCount .... if the count is now zero -> do special stuff |
| 03:57.47 | Teratron | the number of units spawned is always different |
| 03:57.57 | Caz | store how many they started with int he counts |
| 03:58.19 | Teratron | sounds interesting |
| 03:58.23 | Caz | reduction of count and check for special case |
| 03:58.26 | Caz | only happens on unit death |
| 03:58.30 | Caz | so u only need to know starting amount |
| 03:58.37 | Caz | and it will run itself from there |
| 03:59.49 | Teratron | that's just the count |
| 03:59.57 | Teratron | what about the 5 secs requirement |
| 04:00.01 | Caz | why do you need it |
| 04:00.08 | Caz | and if u do need it |
| 04:00.22 | Caz | wait for 5 seconds after that 0 count is detected on unit death |
| 04:00.26 | Teratron | i think because i was saying that since the beginning, didnt i ? |
| 04:00.28 | Caz | then do whatever |
| 04:00.34 | Caz | lol |
| 04:00.42 | Caz | aye |
| 04:00.44 | Teratron | doesn't work like that |
| 04:00.59 | Teratron | waits don't help as they execute still |
| 04:01.17 | Caz | they will pause the running of that event |
| 04:01.17 | Teratron | what if units have spawned inside those 5 seconds ? |
| 04:01.37 | Caz | u told me the player would not gain new units |
| 04:01.38 | Teratron | if the units have spawned it must break the script |
| 04:01.41 | Caz | now he can :O ? |
| 04:01.55 | Teratron | i told you the player gets new units 10 times over |
| 04:02.02 | Teratron | do you have 5 minutes of memory or what ? |
| 04:02.15 | Teratron | i think i explained the whole thing 3 times over now |
| 04:02.27 | Caz | ehhh ur wording is confusing when answering my questions and u dont like my answers :3 |
| 04:02.35 | Caz | and u dont provide any code soooo |
| 04:02.39 | Caz | take what u can get and appreciate |
| 04:02.42 | Teratron | never said that |
| 04:02.57 | Teratron | there's no code of any kind |
| 04:03.08 | Teratron | barebone script now, i deleted everything and started from scratch |
| 04:04.00 | Teratron | thanks anyway |
| 04:04.19 | Caz | when u spawn new units for the player |
| 04:04.23 | Caz | the counts have to be updated |
| 04:04.37 | Teratron | yes indeed |
| 04:04.52 | Teratron | the count has to be constantly updated throughtout the game |
| 04:05.25 | Caz | mmh i could see why a timer would cause u issues too |
| 04:05.35 | Caz | cause if u spawned a unit.. that timer is not really necessary anymore |
| 04:05.51 | Caz | I bet you could |
| 04:05.57 | Teratron | because this is the way i like it, it's already for 10 players so it'll be a lot of work making this for every spawn for every player, so i'll just run like a periodic event for the player, one trigger case for each player |
| 04:06.13 | Caz | i think u should look into timers |
| 04:06.18 | Caz | u could start your 5s timer |
| 04:06.25 | Teratron | well im open on trying |
| 04:06.27 | Caz | when OnUnitDeath pushes unitcount to 0 for the player |
| 04:06.32 | Caz | then if you spawn a unit |
| 04:06.40 | Caz | increase unitcount by one and cancel/reset the timer |
| 04:06.55 | Teratron | sounds interesting |
| 04:06.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster phil__ (475a5c79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.90.92.121) |
| 04:07.00 | Caz | if the timer ever does go off... do ur special stuff |
| 04:07.07 | Caz | and of course cancel any upcomng spawning |
| 04:07.14 | Teratron | oh actually i would have to stop the timer not just reset it ... |
| 04:07.16 | Caz | since i dont know how ur doing the spawning process |
| 04:07.28 | Caz | aye i dont know if galaxy timers reset on stop or not |
| 04:07.31 | Caz | if they do.. super awesome |
| 04:07.32 | Caz | lol |
| 04:07.49 | Caz | i work in c++ , always assume i must do 100% of the work lol |
| 04:07.57 | Teratron | don't worry about the spawnings, they activate differently, i design my games separately, i don't clump up stuff |
| 04:08.34 | Teratron | there's got to be a stop timer action, im sure 99% |
| 04:08.39 | Caz | yes |
| 04:08.43 | Caz | u can stop a timer |
| 04:08.55 | Caz | create / start/ stop/ and i think reset |
| 04:10.33 | Caz | Waits are tricky since they just pause a process. And you lose access to information not stored in local variables |
| 04:10.49 | Caz | something ilke "EventUnit()" returns the wrong unit after ur wait is over |
| 04:10.52 | Caz | for example. |
| 04:11.43 | Teratron | never used timers |
| 04:11.51 | Teratron | so i made a timer with a variable now ... |
| 04:12.00 | Teratron | and i can't do anything other than set "new timer" |
| 04:12.09 | Teratron | or what, how do i define it for 5 secs max |
| 04:12.25 | Teratron | or 10 secs whatever, just has to be above 3 |
| 04:12.32 | Caz | I'm sure the gui can help with that |
| 04:14.20 | Caz | Just opening the gui i see |
| 04:14.25 | Caz | start timer |
| 04:14.27 | Caz | reset timer |
| 04:14.48 | Caz | pause timer |
| 04:14.59 | Teratron | well i use global variables unless specifically not needed |
| 04:15.16 | Teratron | most of the game requires globals anyway |
| 04:15.18 | Caz | there is an event for timers that have completed a count down |
| 04:15.26 | Caz | you would have to script in your response handler |
| 04:15.51 | Teratron | i guess the new timer has to be set by an action first |
| 04:16.18 | phil__ | have either of you guys worked with movers much? |
| 04:16.24 | Caz | Nope :( |
| 04:16.31 | phil__ | I'm having issues trying to make an abilEffectInstant jump |
| 04:16.37 | phil__ | not a problem |
| 04:16.43 | phil__ | just more slaving away >< |
| 04:16.47 | Caz | Teratron ya, Create -> Set -> Start (whenever count is zero) |
| 04:16.54 | Caz | then the timer itself will set off the "Timer Expires" event |
| 04:16.56 | Caz | when its done |
| 04:17.03 | Caz | u would respond to the timer's event |
| 04:17.50 | Caz | Spawn -> Pause/Reset timer -> add 1 to count |
| 04:18.15 | Caz | Death -> lower count by 1 -> Start timer if count 0 |
| 04:18.34 | Caz | Timer expired -> timer is player1timer -> do whatever for player 1 |
| 04:19.02 | Caz | I think this is closer to the design u were after ? lol |
| 04:19.15 | Teratron | sounds right ... |
| 04:19.53 | Caz | DisplayScreenText(" Press Alt+F4 to acquire new skill " ) |
| 04:20.44 | Teratron | thanks caz |
| 04:20.53 | Teratron | i'll go for a test |
| 04:25.46 | Teratron | OH JEEZ |
| 04:25.58 | Teratron | need the big guns |
| 04:26.04 | Teratron | a1win here ? |
| 04:26.41 | Caz_afk | Hm something go wrong already lol ? |
| 04:27.05 | Teratron | you still here ok |
| 04:27.10 | Teratron | i did a bubu |
| 04:27.12 | Caz_afk | half/hafl |
| 04:27.17 | Caz_afk | half/half* |
| 04:27.33 | Caz_afk | ArcanePariah - did u abandon me when u heard i use windows ? lol |
| 04:27.43 | Caz_afk | xD |
| 04:27.47 | Teratron | i made some trigger with local variables accidentially, can i conver them to global without losing the editor script links, or will it update them automatically ? |
| 04:28.14 | Caz_afk | cover them to global ? |
| 04:28.22 | Teratron | convert |
| 04:28.33 | Caz_afk | i'd imagine so. |
| 04:28.59 | ArcanePariah | It will not update them, but you can use the search and replace functionality to do the conversion |
| 04:29.03 | ArcanePariah | Create the new global |
| 04:29.22 | phil__ | arcanePariah - are you familiar with movers much? |
| 04:29.28 | Teratron | search and replace ? |
| 04:29.31 | ArcanePariah | Then do replace -> Parameter |
| 04:29.40 | ArcanePariah | phil__, somewhat |
| 04:29.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo` (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 04:29.42 | Teratron | didn't know this existed |
| 04:29.48 | phil__ | how do I respond to pm's |
| 04:30.08 | Caz_afk | if ur using webchat |
| 04:30.15 | phil__ | yeh on chrome |
| 04:30.16 | Caz_afk | clikc the guy's name ont he right list over there ----> |
| 04:30.20 | Caz_afk | and choose query |
| 04:30.21 | phil__ | ah |
| 04:30.24 | Caz_afk | creates a new tab |
| 04:30.31 | Caz_afk | inside this window |
| 04:31.13 | Caz | Teratron - idk what editor script links are sooo lol :3 |
| 04:31.35 | Caz | but u can usually move local variables to global |
| 04:31.39 | Teratron | editor links are for UI |
| 04:32.00 | Teratron | when you choose a variable or action it creates a link with hash |
| 04:32.12 | Teratron | so when i move stuff even if it's the same name the hash will be different |
| 04:32.21 | Caz | ah |
| 04:32.29 | Caz | there in lies part of the confusion |
| 04:32.34 | Caz | before i stopped messing with editor |
| 04:32.40 | Caz | i was using galaxy script |
| 04:32.45 | Caz | instead of teh gui |
| 04:32.49 | Caz | so this did not occur |
| 04:33.07 | Teratron | well i didn't learn it so |
| 04:33.16 | Caz | its fine |
| 04:33.17 | Teratron | i used to script COD2 |
| 04:33.19 | Caz | gui is easier lol |
| 04:33.34 | Caz | and every time u have a question in script... u go to the gui looking for the answer |
| 04:33.36 | Caz | lol |
| 04:33.37 | Teratron | and it was pretty hard without the documentation, basic stuff |
| 04:33.55 | Teratron | no im not in script, i use gui only |
| 04:37.20 | phil__ | Teratron - you may want to familiarize yourself with the xml |
| 04:37.29 | phil__ | at some point you will find it very useful |
| 04:37.48 | phil__ | and I may have spoken too soon - I assume you were talking about the gui for the data editor |
| 04:38.20 | phil__ | eek - nvm heh |
| 04:38.24 | Teratron | im not doing much in dat |
| 04:38.26 | Teratron | data |
| 04:39.12 | Teratron | already did what i needed there, maps almost done :) |
| 04:42.33 | phil__ | nice nice |
| 04:45.13 | Caz_AOS | game tiimmee |
| 05:05.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster herolief (~herolief@24.0.67.104) |
| 05:50.02 | Teratron | flappy bird takedown probably has to be one of the stupidiest things i have ever seen |
| 05:50.33 | Teratron | what a shit story for the morning |
| 05:53.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster charys (6cf88320@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.248.131.32) |
| 06:00.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (c30db52e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.13.181.46) |
| 06:00.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster IskatuMesk (4645ef99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.69.239.153) |
| 06:11.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 06:47.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster decemberscalm (4ac0ae24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.192.174.36) |
| 06:47.23 | decemberscalm | oh snap, didn't know mapster had an irc |
| 06:47.53 | Bounty | lol |
| 06:48.05 | decemberscalm | I thought irc's went extinct man ahaha |
| 06:48.50 | IskatuMesk | irc is for nerds |
| 06:49.51 | Teratron | welcome decemberscalm http://media.2oceansvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dt.common.streams.StreamServer-2.jpg |
| 06:50.46 | Teratron | or maybe this kind of welcome-carpet http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ZGuns.jpg |
| 06:51.34 | Merc | first pic could be arizona |
| 06:51.55 | decemberscalm | I live in texas. Everyone has a gun here in at least their closet. |
| 06:52.19 | Merc | oh you're the starbow fella arent you |
| 06:52.28 | decemberscalm | yeppers |
| 06:52.35 | Merc | I was whining in tasteless/artosis chat to the guy named Starbow that you guys should get in here |
| 06:52.41 | decemberscalm | ahahahah |
| 06:52.58 | Merc | but he said you were basically the only guy who knew shit |
| 06:53.14 | decemberscalm | thats Xiphias, hes in charge of tournies, organization and general stuff. I do the heavy data work. Made the pathfinding, carrier micro, micro in general, and anything too trick for our other data guys. |
| 06:53.27 | Merc | cool |
| 06:53.33 | Merc | I havent done shit. |
| 06:54.03 | Teratron | that won't be forever decemberscalm if you don't actually show them you have them http://youtu.be/ygZb0L_aQ6k?t=9s .. gun confiscation is hitting all the time, and they also want to make texas Blue |
| 06:54.23 | decemberscalm | why not start? ^^ |
| 06:54.27 | Teratron | oh and by the way december did you saw the alamo speech ? |
| 06:54.32 | Merc | but hey, now that you're here I can whine at you for stuff and give JademusSreg / Arcane|Work1 a break |
| 06:54.40 | decemberscalm | ahahaha |
| 06:54.47 | Teratron | first alamo speech in a hundred years |
| 06:54.49 | Merc | oh I have started |
| 06:55.05 | Merc | I am officially the 24th or 25th guy to start some stupid warcraft RTS I think |
| 06:55.17 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 06:55.22 | decemberscalm | I beleive that |
| 06:55.45 | Merc | my proud achievement from last night: http://i.imgur.com/e3gdZNn.jpg |
| 06:56.12 | IskatuMesk | getting further than I am atm |
| 06:56.13 | decemberscalm | hey, you've at least got punchable trees unlike the most popular wc3 mod |
| 06:56.29 | Merc | yeah man, those guys are punching those trees hard |
| 06:56.41 | Merc | punching them so hard they eventually disappear |
| 06:57.02 | IskatuMesk | punching them into a black hole? this is some ttgl level shit |
| 06:57.08 | decemberscalm | I really love the idea of having destructible forests and terrain, but I never want them to eat into the unit count |
| 06:57.20 | Merc | I'm not doing that |
| 06:57.25 | Merc | these are just reskinned minerals |
| 06:57.30 | Merc | gas will be a gold mine |
| 06:57.38 | decemberscalm | ah |
| 06:57.41 | Merc | it will be warcraft that works just like sc2 |
| 06:57.57 | Merc | hopefully I can plagiarize your mining / pathing tech |
| 06:57.58 | Merc | hur hur |
| 06:58.14 | decemberscalm | go for it. Sbow has always been open |
| 06:58.14 | Teratron | so you didn't know about the alamo thing december ? |
| 06:58.24 | decemberscalm | don't really care for politic stuff |
| 06:58.31 | Merc | btw I should butter you up for that pathing stuff, it looks really good when a large mass of units walk around |
| 06:58.43 | Teratron | you 15 years old ? |
| 06:58.55 | decemberscalm | feel free to use it |
| 06:59.05 | Merc | ty ty |
| 06:59.13 | Merc | I'll do that whenever I figure out how :p |
| 06:59.15 | Teratron | why do you keep your guns in a closet if you don't care ? |
| 06:59.41 | phil__ | december - are you familiar with movers? I had ArcanePariah give me some direction on my issue but I don't think it was correct |
| 06:59.51 | decemberscalm | Teratron, I didn't come here to talk about politics, sorry mate but you'll have to have that convo with someone else not me |
| 07:00.05 | decemberscalm | missile movers phil? |
| 07:00.11 | phil__ | unfortunately yeah |
| 07:00.13 | Teratron | too bad, what a traitor to texas :p |
| 07:00.20 | decemberscalm | whatcha trying to do? |
| 07:00.34 | phil__ | so there was this old ass map "Missile arena deluxe" which featured a rocket jump |
| 07:00.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Goa_ (~Goa_@91.83.6.164.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:00.38 | Merc | there's a bunch of tutorials on sc2mapster for that isnt there |
| 07:00.46 | phil__ | you press spacebar and the guy leaps forward |
| 07:00.50 | phil__ | no target specified by the mouse |
| 07:00.52 | Merc | oh right you wanted that gravity stuff |
| 07:00.54 | phil__ | so abilEffectInstant |
| 07:00.59 | phil__ | is what I assume I need |
| 07:01.13 | phil__ | but every time I attach a missile launch effect with a mover, nothing happens |
| 07:01.26 | phil__ | I know the effect is completing after attaching an alert |
| 07:01.39 | phil__ | and I think my problem lies with the target |
| 07:01.48 | phil__ | offset doesn't seem to be working as I would expect |
| 07:02.14 | decemberscalm | are you turning your unit into the missile? |
| 07:02.18 | phil__ | yes |
| 07:02.28 | phil__ | and I get it to work fine with abilEffectTarget |
| 07:02.40 | phil__ | with the help of info from: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6551255627 |
| 07:03.14 | IskatuMesk | what pathing tech? |
| 07:03.29 | phil__ | pathing tech? |
| 07:03.34 | IskatuMesk | that merc mentioned |
| 07:03.37 | phil__ | mm |
| 07:03.41 | decemberscalm | a whole lot could be wrong. Did you say it worked whenever you use it on a unit rather than point? |
| 07:03.49 | decemberscalm | Starbow pathfinding for units I built he means |
| 07:03.57 | IskatuMesk | replaces default? |
| 07:04.17 | phil__ | I could get it to work when either targeting a unit or point |
| 07:04.31 | Merc | stand back and watch my first foray into that stuff: http://i.imgur.com/C8Z0rrb.gif |
| 07:04.36 | Merc | beautiful ain't it |
| 07:04.38 | phil__ | but when targeting a point, I needed a helper effect "Set" which allowed for a point target |
| 07:04.47 | decemberscalm | nope. Behavior that constantly searches for units in front of him at a certain arc, then orders the units to move to the side somewhat. Basic idea |
| 07:04.55 | IskatuMesk | ah |
| 07:05.18 | decemberscalm | went through a whole lot of solutions before settling on that one |
| 07:05.43 | Merc | makes the units move way more ... erratically, more like a horde |
| 07:05.44 | decemberscalm | sorry phil, simply haven't done an ability like that before |
| 07:05.48 | Merc | feels more organic tbh |
| 07:05.49 | phil__ | no problem |
| 07:05.56 | decemberscalm | gl though |
| 07:06.09 | IskatuMesk | I was going to say, if you replaced the default pathing and made it perform better, I'd be all over that |
| 07:06.15 | decemberscalm | sc2 pathfinding is so bad to look at every time I watch sc2 again after seeing sbow |
| 07:06.28 | phil__ | is there a video with sbow path finding? |
| 07:06.35 | phil__ | the horde-movement you mentioned |
| 07:06.46 | Merc | just watch starbow in a twitch mod |
| 07:06.48 | phil__ | haven't played sbow before |
| 07:06.51 | phil__ | ah k |
| 07:06.54 | IskatuMesk | I don't even know what it is |
| 07:06.57 | Merc | vod* |
| 07:07.04 | decemberscalm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m596vVsarX0 |
| 07:07.08 | Merc | I assume it doesnt perform better, just looks better |
| 07:07.19 | decemberscalm | has some gameplay ramifications |
| 07:07.34 | decemberscalm | unit blobs don't kill each other as instantly, because all the marines are not in range |
| 07:07.46 | IskatuMesk | interesting |
| 07:07.48 | IskatuMesk | I like that |
| 07:07.55 | IskatuMesk | is it a performance impact? |
| 07:07.55 | decemberscalm | splash effects can be bigger because units are more spread by default |
| 07:08.02 | Merc | and you made them NOT spread out when they stop didnt you |
| 07:08.03 | decemberscalm | nope, not in 1v1 with 200 vs 200 |
| 07:08.17 | IskatuMesk | my unit collisions are larger than normal to begin with, so the blobs are reduced, but that would still be interesting to see with my unit counts |
| 07:08.46 | decemberscalm | I did it with another mod called Raze which has smaller armies. Still has a nice aesthetic touch to unit movement |
| 07:08.55 | decemberscalm | larger unit sizes in that too |
| 07:09.54 | IskatuMesk | you are talking so softly, I cannot hear you over my huge fan |
| 07:09.57 | decemberscalm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMl88JpBanE this is the other mod I made with the pathfinding in it |
| 07:10.08 | decemberscalm | sleeping gf while making a dev video for friends, watcha gonna do ^^ |
| 07:10.26 | phil__ | ha - pretty cool |
| 07:10.31 | IskatuMesk | dragoons look so weird being able to turn |
| 07:10.35 | phil__ | but yeah the gameplay ramifications is what I first thought of |
| 07:10.54 | phil__ | the randomness seems like it would be unbearable for higher level gameplay |
| 07:11.02 | decemberscalm | dragoons need to have a facing or they don't work with the pathfinding. They need a forward direction to search for units in front of them. It was unfortunate :( |
| 07:11.15 | IskatuMesk | ah |
| 07:11.38 | decemberscalm | BW has waaaaay more erratic pathfinding and its historically the biggest esport in history |
| 07:11.41 | IskatuMesk | yeah I'd be a bit concerned about the control conflict potential there'd be, given my campaign will require absolute perfect micro.. |
| 07:11.48 | IskatuMesk | but I'd have to test it a lot |
| 07:11.52 | IskatuMesk | and yeah, bw's pathing is a lot more wonky |
| 07:12.04 | decemberscalm | adds to the feel of micro, more definition to it |
| 07:12.18 | decemberscalm | more manual control over your units, while default SC2 its basically bad to micro your melee troops |
| 07:12.30 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 07:13.42 | decemberscalm | its funny, melee mods and arcade stuff are like two different worlds |
| 07:13.47 | decemberscalm | we mainly were on teamliquid |
| 07:14.13 | IskatuMesk | I posted bw mod stuff on TL in the day but got very little reception |
| 07:14.21 | IskatuMesk | TL mostly seems to not care about custom content |
| 07:14.22 | phil__ | yeah but do you remember how terrible svc and goon pathfinding were? |
| 07:14.24 | phil__ | not to mention reaver |
| 07:14.25 | phil__ | haha |
| 07:14.34 | IskatuMesk | reaver scarabs were the best pathing what are you saying |
| 07:14.40 | phil__ | haha |
| 07:14.49 | decemberscalm | everyone KNOWS about starbow and brings it up for examples, but noone plays it because its too hard for most people |
| 07:14.50 | phil__ | I mean, sc2 is a step up |
| 07:14.57 | phil__ | hmm |
| 07:15.04 | decemberscalm | yeah sbow did away with reaver random misfires |
| 07:15.14 | decemberscalm | we gave a target indicator to the attacked unit, to compensate |
| 07:15.16 | phil__ | I just never became bored with ladder, though I should give starbow a shot |
| 07:15.38 | decemberscalm | small community, but really passionate people |
| 07:15.41 | IskatuMesk | definitely going to check out that pathing in person |
| 07:15.42 | phil__ | and personally I don't game much unless I'm at home with my brothers |
| 07:15.49 | Merc | yup, rts is too hard nowadays |
| 07:15.54 | phil__ | haha |
| 07:15.58 | decemberscalm | I made RTS for that reason |
| 07:15.58 | Merc | people prefer games that are easier to get into |
| 07:16.01 | decemberscalm | I mean Raze |
| 07:16.06 | phil__ | I wish people enjoyed rts as much as they do fps |
| 07:16.08 | IskatuMesk | and here I am trying to make a cave-styled campaign |
| 07:16.09 | IskatuMesk | huehue |
| 07:16.11 | decemberscalm | but it failed, its still too hard for people because it has macro |
| 07:16.16 | Merc | I've been toying with the idea of making all macro automatic in my mod |
| 07:16.23 | Merc | like, you toggle "make grunt" |
| 07:16.28 | decemberscalm | autocast? |
| 07:16.30 | Merc | yea |
| 07:16.31 | decemberscalm | style? |
| 07:16.43 | decemberscalm | supreme commander loops are pretty good for people |
| 07:16.55 | Merc | but with a penalty so it would be better if you did it on your own |
| 07:16.57 | IskatuMesk | supply is back to BW levels and there's 300 food cap, every map is 256x256 with expanding/defending enemies... you are expected to know your shit :3 |
| 07:16.57 | Merc | I dunno |
| 07:17.02 | Merc | I probably wont do it |
| 07:17.13 | Merc | I want it to be sc2 with a warcraft skin most of all |
| 07:17.15 | decemberscalm | careful with 300 supply, sc2 engine hates too many units in a single control group |
| 07:17.23 | IskatuMesk | indeed |
| 07:17.33 | IskatuMesk | but if you stuff everything into a single control group in this you'll have issues anyways |
| 07:17.34 | decemberscalm | BW scaled better with larger unit counts than sc2 does |
| 07:17.48 | IskatuMesk | many specialized units that will need special positioning and can't be a-moved |
| 07:17.52 | Merc | probably because of the shitty pathing :p |
| 07:17.53 | IskatuMesk | yeah, that's for sure |
| 07:18.01 | IskatuMesk | the pathing and AI are absolute performance killers |
| 07:18.08 | decemberscalm | sc2 has better pathfinding and costs less |
| 07:18.10 | decemberscalm | its the models |
| 07:18.18 | IskatuMesk | nah, models are no impact here |
| 07:18.27 | IskatuMesk | ultra or lowest, my fps is always the same |
| 07:18.35 | decemberscalm | sc2's pathfinding is really efficient compared to A* |
| 07:18.36 | Merc | I thought it would be the pathfinding that punished the cpu |
| 07:18.46 | IskatuMesk | collision in the pathfinding butchers cpu |
| 07:18.59 | IskatuMesk | when units clump up, that will drop fps like a rock |
| 07:19.06 | Merc | well I have no idea at least so I'll shut up |
| 07:19.08 | IskatuMesk | your pathing engine will probably help that, actually |
| 07:19.19 | IskatuMesk | might make the AI stacks a bit les hungry |
| 07:19.49 | Teratron | is it possible to show the lines of the pathfinding AI decemberscalm ? |
| 07:19.50 | IskatuMesk | there are some shaders that tank fps pretty hard, though |
| 07:19.54 | IskatuMesk | the allied cloaking shader, and the minerals |
| 07:20.13 | Teratron | like where the pahtfinding is searching for possible locations |
| 07:20.17 | decemberscalm | by default you see them teratron, you have to set the ui: unit order que up to 3 to hide them |
| 07:20.31 | decemberscalm | oh, like SC2? |
| 07:20.50 | Teratron | weird, maybe i just never paid attention |
| 07:21.05 | decemberscalm | no no, I add in an aditional behavior on top of default sc2 pathfinding |
| 07:21.12 | IskatuMesk | well I mean |
| 07:21.16 | IskatuMesk | since your pathing makes them split up |
| 07:21.20 | IskatuMesk | they won't run into each other |
| 07:21.29 | Teratron | well that was one part the other thing is, sc2 possible to do formations like in those medieval games ? |
| 07:21.30 | IskatuMesk | that seems to be the biggest pathing performance hit |
| 07:21.34 | decemberscalm | yeah they can show lines if you hold shift while moving them |
| 07:21.46 | decemberscalm | its possible, would recquire fancy trigger work |
| 07:22.10 | decemberscalm | triggers can do just about anything. Blew my mind how efficient they were in SC2 coming from BW editor |
| 07:22.28 | IskatuMesk | haha, some people managed some pretty crazy shit with bw though |
| 07:22.39 | IskatuMesk | I was a modder so I never got into triggers myselfd |
| 07:22.44 | decemberscalm | ah the good ole days of casting spells by building a zealot |
| 07:22.52 | IskatuMesk | beacons everywhere |
| 07:22.57 | decemberscalm | yeah ahahaha |
| 07:23.05 | decemberscalm | UMS scene back then was dope |
| 07:23.13 | IskatuMesk | god's land |
| 07:23.15 | IskatuMesk | the beacons, the sea of beacons |
| 07:23.41 | decemberscalm | I made a pikmin map with a day and night cycle, where you actually built pikmin from your barracks (onion) and it could fly and move around |
| 07:23.52 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 07:23.53 | decemberscalm | hunted monsters for more pikmin instead of auto spawn |
| 07:24.19 | decemberscalm | I remember this shit man, if you build a marine it'd spawn 1 pikmin, a medic, 5 pikmin, a ghost, 15 pikmin |
| 07:24.53 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/oaLrdYT.jpg |
| 07:25.05 | decemberscalm | oh god |
| 07:25.18 | IskatuMesk | only bw shot I got on imgur apparently |
| 07:25.21 | decemberscalm | have you seen those SC2 in BW mods? |
| 07:25.25 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 07:25.30 | IskatuMesk | I made graphics for someone from sc2 |
| 07:25.30 | decemberscalm | never understood the point |
| 07:25.41 | IskatuMesk | most people who did sc2 stuff in BW copy pasted from jpegs |
| 07:25.44 | IskatuMesk | they looked so awful |
| 07:25.54 | IskatuMesk | I did it the hard way and the graphics never got used :3 |
| 07:26.11 | IskatuMesk | that drake there, from WoW, he was a tremendous amount of work |
| 07:26.11 | decemberscalm | do you model? |
| 07:26.14 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 07:26.19 | IskatuMesk | not very good, but I do |
| 07:26.29 | decemberscalm | I tried to add the zealot punching animation into sc2 |
| 07:26.44 | Merc | come on show him your voice work |
| 07:26.48 | decemberscalm | made the animation and everything, thought I put it in correctly for his attack. Never did get it to work |
| 07:27.05 | IskatuMesk | what is the animation name |
| 07:27.15 | Merc | did you make an m3a or something |
| 07:27.18 | decemberscalm | created it from scratch |
| 07:27.19 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/fM4dOAd.jpg |
| 07:27.19 | decemberscalm | yeah |
| 07:27.22 | decemberscalm | think so |
| 07:27.24 | Merc | I've seen delphinium toy with that lately |
| 07:27.27 | decemberscalm | was a while ago |
| 07:27.41 | decemberscalm | pretty good man |
| 07:28.08 | IskatuMesk | if you want to see the voice work merc mentioned https://soundcloud.com/iskatumesk/ |
| 07:28.09 | Merc | here: http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/50/752/1233213.gif |
| 07:28.21 | Merc | he made some new animations for tassadar and the marines at least |
| 07:28.49 | IskatuMesk | animations will need specific names and to be called by the actors (which I am sure you are aware of) |
| 07:28.55 | IskatuMesk | and I think m3a's need to be defined in the model data |
| 07:29.14 | Merc | shit dude even I know that |
| 07:29.15 | Merc | :p |
| 07:29.29 | IskatuMesk | well the animation name part may be a bit misleading |
| 07:29.37 | IskatuMesk | the game flat out won't load anything that isn't in their naming style |
| 07:29.42 | Merc | yeah I actually discovered that by accident |
| 07:29.56 | decemberscalm | nice work on that |
| 07:30.13 | decemberscalm | it was a while ago so I don't remember where exactly I screwed up and couldn't get it working |
| 07:30.28 | decemberscalm | but I do know I totally screwed up :D |
| 07:30.34 | IskatuMesk | when I tried to use m3a for some animations it caused the model's surface to turn into a huge mess |
| 07:30.36 | Merc | before art tools? |
| 07:30.39 | IskatuMesk | so I haven't done anything with them |
| 07:32.24 | IskatuMesk | I mostly am doing ports right now |
| 07:32.35 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/1jGtghT.gif |
| 07:32.57 | decemberscalm | is there a playtest group btw? |
| 07:33.11 | IskatuMesk | for? |
| 07:33.15 | decemberscalm | I joined a playtest night but it was for the rock the cabinet thingy |
| 07:33.22 | decemberscalm | maps in general for guys who need testers |
| 07:33.25 | IskatuMesk | no idea |
| 07:33.28 | Merc | I saw a lot of that stuff in the time befor RTC |
| 07:33.42 | Merc | kind of a lull now |
| 07:33.53 | decemberscalm | ah, the calm after the storm sorta deal |
| 07:33.55 | Merc | slight period where people are pissed they're not in top10 etc |
| 07:33.59 | decemberscalm | lol |
| 07:34.15 | decemberscalm | you are pissed about blizzard not picking you. Think about that for a sec |
| 07:34.17 | Merc | "fuck this I'm going over to unity" |
| 07:34.38 | IskatuMesk | like I said, I always am amused when people build something for a reason other than themselves |
| 07:34.43 | decemberscalm | yeah its silly |
| 07:34.57 | Merc | well I can understand it though, they put in a lot of work for the contest and it ends up fizzling |
| 07:35.03 | Merc | must be frustrating |
| 07:35.08 | decemberscalm | 99.9999 chance is, you are not going to be the next dota, especially in this day and age |
| 07:35.13 | IskatuMesk | yeah but you have to realize even in best case scenario it's a coin flip |
| 07:35.22 | decemberscalm | blizz handled the contest poorly, but its kinda expected of them by now |
| 07:35.47 | Merc | I actually expected them to split it up into more categories, like the streamer contest |
| 07:35.57 | Merc | "technological achievement" and so on |
| 07:36.12 | decemberscalm | eh, but they have less and less resources lately |
| 07:36.17 | Merc | yup |
| 07:36.33 | Merc | or well, they're using a lot of them on WCS |
| 07:36.37 | decemberscalm | from the contact I've had with some of their employers, they simply don't have the funds given for them to do cool stuff |
| 07:36.47 | decemberscalm | *employees |
| 07:36.54 | Merc | they are spending a looot of dough on WCS |
| 07:36.56 | IskatuMesk | sounds close what I heard some years ago |
| 07:36.58 | Merc | for basically no return |
| 07:37.17 | Merc | at least they got Heroes |
| 07:37.20 | decemberscalm | its why there is no chance of getting stuff like in client spectating big matches and stuff |
| 07:37.24 | Merc | suits approve of Heroes I bet |
| 07:37.29 | decemberscalm | you bet |
| 07:37.40 | Merc | And whatever Heroes gets, SC2 might get |
| 07:37.53 | Merc | I remain hopeful |
| 07:38.08 | decemberscalm | my main interst is just experimenting and seeing if I can help evolve the twitch rts genre. Since I love micro |
| 07:38.18 | Merc | everyone loves micro |
| 07:38.20 | decemberscalm | get to test day9's game |
| 07:38.30 | Merc | thats kinda why I wanted to do an autocast macro thing |
| 07:38.36 | Merc | just to let more people focus on micro |
| 07:38.47 | decemberscalm | yeah, but there is soooo many ways to build an arena style RTS. And it hasn't be done very well yet |
| 07:39.06 | Merc | wanted to combine it with a team game thing, where multiple guys are playing the same army if you know what I mean |
| 07:39.12 | decemberscalm | I declare my own last team project a failure for what we set out do do, learned a lot from it |
| 07:39.16 | IskatuMesk | team melee |
| 07:39.19 | IskatuMesk | now that's some memories |
| 07:39.22 | decemberscalm | that exists since bw :P |
| 07:39.27 | Merc | would at the very least be hilarious |
| 07:39.33 | decemberscalm | oh it is |
| 07:39.35 | Merc | yeah probably not very unique :p |
| 07:39.35 | decemberscalm | it really is |
| 07:40.07 | decemberscalm | heres the way I see it. The fast paced RTS style game is basically just mobas and SC2 right now. Noone else is trying to make a fast paced micro rts |
| 07:40.10 | decemberscalm | except for like, day9 |
| 07:40.20 | Merc | plan is to only make this a mod that you can apply to regular maps |
| 07:40.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-231-221.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 07:40.26 | decemberscalm | but everyone is just copying mobas. So only 1 hero, not multi units |
| 07:40.41 | decemberscalm | did you see if anyone already made it? |
| 07:40.55 | Merc | yea, never been a fan of rts with heroes tbh |
| 07:41.01 | Merc | leveling up and such |
| 07:41.07 | Merc | so snowbally |
| 07:41.14 | decemberscalm | nah, depends on how you build it |
| 07:41.23 | IskatuMesk | I am having heroes in my campaign but they will be very different than any implementation I have seen yet |
| 07:41.24 | Merc | well WC3 clearly did it well |
| 07:41.31 | Merc | still doesnt make me a fan of it :P |
| 07:41.44 | Merc | competetive PVE until you get to do PVP |
| 07:41.54 | Merc | random item drops |
| 07:41.54 | decemberscalm | I tried to make them work in a couple different formats. Built a prototype with lanes and wc3 style armies |
| 07:42.03 | IskatuMesk | no real leveling, upgrade-oriented progression, no items, very little in the way of cc |
| 07:42.20 | IskatuMesk | mostly to supplement an existing strong economic advantage |
| 07:42.42 | IskatuMesk | and add some more micro |
| 07:42.54 | decemberscalm | doesn't necessarily add more micro with more spells |
| 07:43.03 | IskatuMesk | will have to design the spells carefully |
| 07:43.05 | Merc | but, I'm not doing this to make the new dota or whatever, I just need to get it out of my system |
| 07:43.05 | decemberscalm | people can only do so much |
| 07:43.16 | Merc | I wanted to do this mod since wc2 |
| 07:43.27 | decemberscalm | more power to ya |
| 07:43.45 | IskatuMesk | sc2 automates enough things that I have some leeway to add a few things to exploit in terms of control |
| 07:43.59 | IskatuMesk | just need to find what feels right |
| 07:44.24 | IskatuMesk | the campaign will have less active abilities overall though, will be more like BW where the unit strengths come from their handling and weapons and not an ability |
| 07:44.52 | decemberscalm | let me give an example of my experience with heroes plus units. I have a hero called the praetor who can order a scout to bomb an area. So basically a skillshot aoe nuke. Instead of the fights focussing on micro between dragoons and x, it became overidden quite a bit by baiting out that spell, or using it. |
| 07:44.54 | IskatuMesk | the exception being the boss races ofc |
| 07:44.57 | decemberscalm | yeh thats good |
| 07:45.21 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 07:45.43 | decemberscalm | went through all this trouble to fine tune auto attacker micro, just to have it trampled over by heroes x.x |
| 07:45.44 | IskatuMesk | once my artillery and everything is lined up and those missions are testable, I expect the gameplay dynamic to shift into really strange territory |
| 07:46.08 | decemberscalm | artillery? |
| 07:46.22 | IskatuMesk | I am having some artillery structures with long range that can blind shot at huge inaccuracy |
| 07:46.27 | decemberscalm | ah |
| 07:46.27 | IskatuMesk | and structures that can shoot down artillery shells |
| 07:46.38 | IskatuMesk | also having nukes be more like supcom tactical missiles |
| 07:47.09 | IskatuMesk | the AI system needs to support those before I can do anything with them, though |
| 07:47.10 | Merc | WW3 |
| 07:47.21 | Merc | feeling a sudden urge to duck and cover |
| 07:47.28 | decemberscalm | big fan of supreme commander and total annihilation |
| 07:47.33 | decemberscalm | fantastic games |
| 07:47.36 | Merc | ah TA was awesome |
| 07:47.41 | Merc | I still have the COMMANDER PACK |
| 07:47.51 | IskatuMesk | there is mass fabs in this as well, but they are late in the tech and extremely expensive |
| 07:47.52 | Merc | gigantic box |
| 07:47.54 | decemberscalm | TA Spring and Zero K I think are my favorite |
| 07:47.57 | Merc | still dont have the heart to throw it out |
| 07:48.42 | decemberscalm | hey, you guys wanna throw out some ideas on a tough issue I've been trying to brainstorm ways to fix? |
| 07:48.46 | decemberscalm | pure design stuff |
| 07:48.49 | IskatuMesk | it will be interesting to see how the lategame dynamic for my races turn out, as until the AI and units are built all I can do is speculate from my previous experiments |
| 07:49.19 | IskatuMesk | sure |
| 07:49.39 | IskatuMesk | super sleepy though |
| 07:49.59 | Merc | if you promise to be back and not use us! |
| 07:50.39 | decemberscalm | Imagine a team vs team based game thats got streamlined macro, and its all about the micro and fights on the field. The problem when doing this is you remove all the typical depth of strategy that build orders and such provided. Dota has its own approach for strategy by having lanes and farm and ganking. |
| 07:50.59 | decemberscalm | I've been thinking up various ways to add strategy to this style of game, like having forts you can siege |
| 07:51.12 | IskatuMesk | streamlined macro - how are you interacting with the macro |
| 07:51.21 | decemberscalm | nothing I've done has ever felt like it made up for loss of build orders and typical rts strategy |
| 07:51.48 | IskatuMesk | I built a conceptual AoS for warcraft 3 that was very different from traditional dota clones in the sense that your AI units had tech paths, called Divisions, that you could upgrade every X minutes |
| 07:51.59 | IskatuMesk | each Division unlocked new units and upgraded units related to that division |
| 07:52.09 | IskatuMesk | while certain levels of certain tech mixes unlocked different hybrid units |
| 07:52.15 | decemberscalm | something simple like, you've got 40 minerals at the start to work with. You buy units of choice. When they die, you get their money back 30 seconds later |
| 07:52.22 | decemberscalm | very streamlined |
| 07:52.26 | IskatuMesk | the concept was that you added strategy by upgrading your minions over time to suit a certain playstyle or to counter enemy tech builds |
| 07:52.37 | IskatuMesk | alright, this wouldn't help at all in that case |
| 07:52.43 | decemberscalm | tried method like that already |
| 07:53.01 | decemberscalm | composition fighting already happens |
| 07:53.04 | decemberscalm | at the very start of the game |
| 07:53.09 | decemberscalm | even put in a pick ban system |
| 07:53.16 | Merc | adding forts and NPCs and whatnot feels like it takes away from the PvP aspect if you ask me |
| 07:53.17 | decemberscalm | doesn't make up for the maps lack of strategy |
| 07:53.26 | Merc | you end up fighting the game and not the opponent |
| 07:53.35 | decemberscalm | not necassarily |
| 07:53.40 | IskatuMesk | I think it will then come down to the unit interaction |
| 07:53.50 | decemberscalm | every see bloodline champions? |
| 07:53.55 | IskatuMesk | nope |
| 07:54.01 | decemberscalm | its like dota but purely a team vs team fighting game |
| 07:54.04 | decemberscalm | no lanes, no creeps |
| 07:54.09 | decemberscalm | like street fighter, but moba style |
| 07:54.20 | decemberscalm | lacked that chess like strategy moba and rts have |
| 07:54.32 | decemberscalm | see how tough of a nut this is to crack? :P |
| 07:54.47 | IskatuMesk | I play a bit of league of legends... as far as strategy in that game is concerned, any overarching strategy you may have can be instantly defeated by a single person getting caught out at any point |
| 07:54.57 | IskatuMesk | so, strategy in moba types is going to be a real challenge |
| 07:55.00 | decemberscalm | but the strategy is indeed there |
| 07:55.09 | IskatuMesk | you'll have to design your units and heroes and such very carefully |
| 07:55.33 | decemberscalm | I've played with ideas like, having caravans that come through and both teams could fight over them |
| 07:55.39 | decemberscalm | not particularly strategic :P |
| 07:55.39 | IskatuMesk | if it's micro oriented, strategy won't weigh as much as just outplaying in a specific instance, but if you make it counter-oriented, micro will be very subdued |
| 07:55.53 | IskatuMesk | control points is a possibility |
| 07:56.06 | phil__ | decemberscalm - I'm taking a different approach to tackle why I believe dota is boring - and that's to allow people to play the unit style they enjoy. I realised a ton of people enjoy controlling a single unit, but that's not for me. So I'm attempting a moba map where lane units are controlled by one player, 2 normal heroes controlled by two other players, then a commander-type hero (purchases respawnable units) is played by anot |
| 07:56.06 | IskatuMesk | you are talking about forts and such, these could function as control points |
| 07:56.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Teratron_ (563a22a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.58.34.166) |
| 07:56.27 | phil__ | not sure if it will work out |
| 07:56.29 | phil__ | but I hope it does |
| 07:56.48 | phil__ | and what I mean by "lane units are controlled by one player" - I simply mean the choice of what units to send |
| 07:56.50 | decemberscalm | actually building it phil? I'd love to see the results and playtest it. Seems a bit rough though |
| 07:56.56 | phil__ | yeah |
| 07:57.05 | phil__ | I have the lane triggers all figured |
| 07:57.12 | phil__ | I want this leap thing to work |
| 07:57.18 | decemberscalm | Made a mod called raze with forts. They basically provided positional advantage you could capture. It did add SOME strategy which was cool |
| 07:57.21 | phil__ | I think the hard part will be creating heroes that are "fun" to play as |
| 07:57.32 | IskatuMesk | yeah, I saw those in the video |
| 07:57.36 | phil__ | hmm I'll have to take a look |
| 07:57.38 | phil__ | what video? |
| 07:57.55 | decemberscalm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMl88JpBanE |
| 07:57.57 | decemberscalm | my project |
| 07:58.01 | decemberscalm | with some other modders |
| 07:58.40 | decemberscalm | I really dug squadron support in BW |
| 07:58.50 | Merc | I had this idea of an "artifact" that they could be fighting over in the middle of the map. It would be a sort of side objective, but you can still win in the usual way. If you manage to pick up the artifact, the unit carrying it would become a sort of CTF flag carrier |
| 07:58.56 | Merc | and you bring it back to your base |
| 07:58.56 | decemberscalm | worked really well as a PvE experience, not sure if it would work for pvp |
| 07:59.16 | IskatuMesk | when I think of adding really strong stuff like artillery and mass fabs, I want them to be a risk in the campaign, or at least need you to take a risk with them, so they are large sizes, and with the way the terrain is laid out, they generally need you to have serious map control if you want to make a lot of them. Terrain is another major way you can add strategy |
| 07:59.18 | Merc | Guess the artifact would have to be locked down under some destructible blockers |
| 07:59.53 | IskatuMesk | if you have units or heroes that really like to abuse certain kinds of terrain, the map can be built in a way where simply controlling regions is a form of strategy |
| 08:00.01 | Merc | and maybe you could only bring the artifact back with a specific Truck-unit |
| 08:00.04 | IskatuMesk | this was a big deal in designing BW melee maps |
| 08:00.05 | phil__ | ah that looks really cool december |
| 08:00.11 | decemberscalm | thanks phil |
| 08:00.23 | Merc | yeah Raze looked really well put together |
| 08:00.25 | phil__ | I haven't been making maps long enough to understand the fundamental difference between mods and arcade |
| 08:00.34 | decemberscalm | it was a bitch and a half to make :D |
| 08:00.44 | phil__ | like, how do you play raze |
| 08:00.48 | phil__ | if it's not on arcade |
| 08:00.49 | decemberscalm | on the arcade |
| 08:00.52 | phil__ | oh |
| 08:00.54 | IskatuMesk | sc2 only has arcade |
| 08:00.54 | phil__ | ehm |
| 08:00.59 | IskatuMesk | mods don't exist for sc2 in the traditional sense |
| 08:01.05 | phil__ | okay |
| 08:01.10 | Merc | how do you play mods that are on the arcade, is the real question :p |
| 08:01.14 | phil__ | so mod/custom map are synonymous? |
| 08:01.15 | decemberscalm | the Raze MOD can be put onto maps designed for the mod |
| 08:01.23 | IskatuMesk | that's why I prefer to just call them maps |
| 08:01.25 | decemberscalm | so you can play on a raze map, using the raze mod, in the arcade |
| 08:01.32 | IskatuMesk | blizzards "mods" in sc2 are basically wc3 campaign dependencies |
| 08:01.34 | phil__ | ah |
| 08:01.36 | phil__ | I see |
| 08:01.40 | decemberscalm | I've got multiple maps though for single mods |
| 08:01.45 | decemberscalm | especially for starbow |
| 08:01.47 | phil__ | haha |
| 08:01.50 | decemberscalm | so mod makes more sense |
| 08:01.54 | phil__ | understood |
| 08:02.10 | IskatuMesk | when I think of mod I think of firegraft and mpqdraft exes, sins/supcom checksum mod archive loaders, etc |
| 08:02.12 | phil__ | are yall developers? |
| 08:02.20 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 08:02.23 | phil__ | yeah - that's what my initial understanding was |
| 08:02.31 | IskatuMesk | though my knowledge of sc2 is very limited |
| 08:02.34 | phil__ | iskatu - where you from? |
| 08:02.40 | IskatuMesk | brood war mostly |
| 08:02.43 | phil__ | ah yeah |
| 08:02.45 | IskatuMesk | also did a lot with sins of a solar empire |
| 08:02.46 | phil__ | bw was incredible |
| 08:03.00 | phil__ | aoe II was what got me into map making though |
| 08:03.04 | decemberscalm | Iskatu's hardcore :p. I just do triggers and data |
| 08:03.04 | IskatuMesk | I made total conversions |
| 08:03.07 | phil__ | and programming in general |
| 08:03.17 | phil__ | haha |
| 08:03.30 | IskatuMesk | did a bit of triggering in wc3 but nothing noteworthy |
| 08:03.42 | IskatuMesk | just understand enough of the basics for a simple campaign at least |
| 08:03.56 | phil__ | yeah, I loved triggering in sc2 - there were some odd ways to get around fundamental limits |
| 08:04.13 | decemberscalm | my biggest pain is that the stuff I wanna make all needs multiple players |
| 08:04.17 | IskatuMesk | only now sort of dabbling with galaxy |
| 08:04.18 | decemberscalm | for testing |
| 08:04.23 | phil__ | haha |
| 08:04.30 | phil__ | that is unfortunate |
| 08:04.43 | IskatuMesk | any project I make basically demands computer AI support, so I always start with that first |
| 08:04.54 | IskatuMesk | makes testing easier, but not very viable in something like sc2 where it entails huge work |
| 08:05.20 | decemberscalm | my friend messes with AI in sc2 |
| 08:05.25 | decemberscalm | he says its a nightmare to work with |
| 08:05.29 | IskatuMesk | it is |
| 08:05.53 | IskatuMesk | that's why I have to rely on jademussreg to get past where I am now, which is just very basic stuff |
| 08:06.16 | Merc | Wasn't turtles working on that too |
| 08:06.22 | IskatuMesk | I can change the build orders and do some very basic tactical AI stuff, but the melee AI has fundamental issues with its attack wave handling and that's incredibly complicated for me |
| 08:06.22 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 08:06.36 | Merc | like an AI that does popular all-ins on you or something |
| 08:06.50 | IskatuMesk | he has some map on b.ent that has some basic harass style stuff |
| 08:06.52 | IskatuMesk | seems quite promising |
| 08:07.01 | Merc | pretty sick to practice with |
| 08:07.18 | decemberscalm | hes gotten AI to harass and be a lot smarter. Took him wayyyyy too long to do it through trial and errors, observing how the AI works. Hes a masochist |
| 08:07.23 | Merc | as long as you play the role of the passive defender, the AI wont really screw up |
| 08:07.24 | IskatuMesk | I looked at it but it's like triggers mixed with code and not pure galaxy like what I was looking at in melee so I couldn't understand the tiniest shred of it |
| 08:07.26 | decemberscalm | techpsy on TL that is |
| 08:07.34 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 08:07.48 | IskatuMesk | I spent many months just analyzing the issues with their attack waves |
| 08:07.57 | IskatuMesk | so I know what's "wrong" but no clue how to fix it |
| 08:08.09 | decemberscalm | to be fair, stuff that should be simple with data isn't as well |
| 08:08.14 | IskatuMesk | once those are sorted out my campaign's most major roadblock in terms of design is dealt with |
| 08:08.17 | decemberscalm | took me SOOOO long to get a working moving shot for vulture |
| 08:08.31 | IskatuMesk | wouldn't that be backswing? |
| 08:08.43 | decemberscalm | no, and even that lacks the support wc3 had for it |
| 08:08.54 | IskatuMesk | oh boy |
| 08:08.58 | decemberscalm | backswing is cancelable by default in sc2 and recquires a work around to make it non-cancelable |
| 08:09.01 | IskatuMesk | that spells fun for when I get to fixing all of that then |
| 08:09.14 | decemberscalm | I can give you my work arounds |
| 08:09.21 | IskatuMesk | would be nice to look at yeah |
| 08:09.38 | decemberscalm | or another example, siege tank turret not tracking targets while moving. THey do in BW. They don't in sc2 which looks stupid. Had to give them a dummy weapon |
| 08:09.57 | IskatuMesk | ah yeah, I thought something was off about the tanks in sc2 |
| 08:10.00 | IskatuMesk | couldn't quite put my finger on it |
| 08:10.14 | decemberscalm | you know how marines groups in sc2 when stutters shoot their allies? |
| 08:10.19 | decemberscalm | but they stutter step so fast? |
| 08:10.26 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 08:10.26 | decemberscalm | and they keep muzzle flashing |
| 08:10.29 | decemberscalm | fixed that |
| 08:10.35 | IskatuMesk | yah the model will keep animating |
| 08:10.50 | decemberscalm | in BW, a marine finishes his attack animation before moving |
| 08:10.57 | IskatuMesk | I am going to redo all of the particles anyways so I may just end up changing the marine weapon entirely |
| 08:11.00 | decemberscalm | gives them more definenition to how they micro |
| 08:11.32 | decemberscalm | oh, I gave tracer fire to the Raze marines. Came out pretty nicely |
| 08:11.40 | IskatuMesk | http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/50/734/kinetic_impact2.gif.gif |
| 08:11.52 | IskatuMesk | some basic particles I made as I start experimenting with it |
| 08:12.04 | IskatuMesk | aiming for faster, but prettier, effects |
| 08:12.08 | IskatuMesk | more concise |
| 08:12.11 | decemberscalm | nice |
| 08:12.18 | decemberscalm | whatcha make it in? |
| 08:12.25 | IskatuMesk | this uses the art tools, so in 3ds max |
| 08:12.41 | IskatuMesk | I used fumefx to make the texture sheets |
| 08:12.50 | decemberscalm | lot of effects in sc2 lack the clarity BW had |
| 08:12.52 | IskatuMesk | so these are probably using like 1/4-1/8 the particle counts of sc2's defaults |
| 08:12.53 | decemberscalm | too shiny |
| 08:13.05 | IskatuMesk | my issue with sc2's particles is that they are really messy |
| 08:13.12 | IskatuMesk | they all use the same textures and kind of overlap |
| 08:13.23 | Teratron_ | maybe you decemberscalm know if it's possible to convert local variables to global without using editor ui cross-trigger link ? |
| 08:13.34 | IskatuMesk | I wanted something more asian in that it was sharp, flashy, and concise |
| 08:14.01 | IskatuMesk | that is recorded in normal speed |
| 08:14.07 | IskatuMesk | so in faster speed they are quite quick |
| 08:14.35 | decemberscalm | never tried |
| 08:14.45 | decemberscalm | like that style for rts effects |
| 08:15.18 | Merc | hmh, I thought SC2s particle effects were very good |
| 08:15.21 | decemberscalm | my trigger experience is limited, relatively recently learned how to work with arrays and records. |
| 08:15.35 | IskatuMesk | they are decent compared to other games but I know I can do a lot better with what I learned from sins |
| 08:15.42 | Merc | only spell effect I have a problem with is blinding cloud, EMP and fungal growth, too hard to see |
| 08:16.00 | IskatuMesk | once I get enough revised I may make a demo video and post it in my thread |
| 08:16.02 | decemberscalm | trickiest thing I did was looping through array to keep track of carriers and which interceptors belonged to them, and make interceptors attack only their carriers target |
| 08:16.31 | decemberscalm | blinding cloud ugh |
| 08:16.34 | decemberscalm | hate that spell |
| 08:16.38 | decemberscalm | storm is pretty good |
| 08:16.46 | decemberscalm | err the model that is |
| 08:16.54 | Merc | storm has great visuals |
| 08:17.01 | IskatuMesk | I am really tired, so I am going to pass out |
| 08:17.06 | Merc | blinding cloud is basically invisible |
| 08:17.07 | IskatuMesk | I already got plans to revise storm too |
| 08:17.10 | decemberscalm | night night, nice chatting with ya mate |
| 08:17.11 | IskatuMesk | got a bunch of nice textures for it |
| 08:17.16 | Merc | gn8m8 |
| 08:17.17 | IskatuMesk | see you later |
| 08:17.23 | IskatuMesk | will check out sbow tomorrow probably |
| 08:17.28 | decemberscalm | I'll be up all night tortuing myself trying to come up with ideas ahahah |
| 08:17.34 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 08:17.50 | decemberscalm | can't sleep if I'm trying to think of game ideas, ah well |
| 08:17.52 | decemberscalm | night man! |
| 08:17.52 | Merc | you should get a proper irc client and hang around |
| 08:17.58 | decemberscalm | just got one |
| 08:18.02 | Merc | nice bice |
| 08:18.27 | Merc | if you want to spur ideas you can probably check out #teamliquid on quakenet too |
| 08:18.46 | Merc | might get lucky and they wont shout at you for not talking about BW |
| 08:19.20 | decemberscalm | teamliquid is probably the last place I'd ask about brainstorm ideas to test out |
| 08:19.22 | decemberscalm | ahaha |
| 08:19.40 | decemberscalm | no wait, thats definently b.net |
| 08:20.13 | decemberscalm | I think I've got 10 things I'd like to try, just need to get around testing them. All my playtesters for raze are burnt out after getting it ready for RTC |
| 08:22.07 | decemberscalm | do you know if people still use teamspeak? |
| 08:22.26 | decemberscalm | dunno how big the mapster community is |
| 08:23.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster december (~Travis@r74-192-174-36.htvlcmta01.hnvitx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 08:23.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster december (~Travis@r74-192-174-36.htvlcmta01.hnvitx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 08:23.57 | Merc | I only "joined" 3 months ago |
| 08:24.04 | Merc | or, joined as in started talking here and never went away |
| 08:24.10 | december | ahaha I see |
| 08:24.32 | Merc | quite a jaded bunch in here, they see a lot of fresh faces drop by, ask some incoherent question and leave to never be seen again |
| 08:24.43 | Merc | But I made them love me. |
| 08:25.09 | Merc | stares intensely. |
| 08:25.11 | december | I'd imagine thats the usual drill. Hey how do I do this? (poorly written out) |
| 08:25.25 | december | *drops off the face of the earth* |
| 08:25.28 | Merc | yup |
| 08:26.17 | Merc | oddly quiet here today |
| 08:26.29 | decemberscal | I think I'd be cool with sticking around just to see if I could organize some playtest stuff |
| 08:26.35 | Merc | usually we got Bounty here around this time of day, and drunken rambling |
| 08:27.07 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:27.11 | decemberscal | lol |
| 08:27.14 | Merc | oh daym here he is |
| 08:27.15 | Merc | :P |
| 08:27.41 | Merc | have you cheered up yet? |
| 08:27.48 | Merc | or still focused on Unity |
| 08:28.33 | Bounty | Ironically, I will be cheered up once I get the hang of unity >.< |
| 08:29.24 | Merc | you and zolden can doubleteam that shit once he's back from whatever summer vacationary stuff he's up to |
| 08:30.02 | Merc | but yea I'll probably be up for some playtesting stuff decemberscal |
| 08:30.11 | Bounty | I was hoping to have his assistance in the process but I will be using written tutorials and videos for now. |
| 08:30.37 | decemberscal | do you use skype? |
| 08:30.47 | Merc | I *have* skype |
| 08:31.00 | decemberscal | is it ever on ahahah |
| 08:31.09 | Merc | it's not on auto-start |
| 08:31.16 | Merc | because it's fucking skype :p |
| 08:31.19 | decemberscal | lurk on irc a lot? |
| 08:31.25 | Merc | yep |
| 08:31.36 | decemberscal | alright man, I'll hit you up here than |
| 08:31.39 | Merc | connected 24/7 here through an irssi box in my basement |
| 08:31.49 | decemberscal | gotta at least TRY to sleep |
| 08:31.52 | decemberscal | 3:30 am |
| 08:31.55 | Merc | plus twitch/azubu/quakenet |
| 08:32.14 | phil__ | have a good night - sorry been away from this chat most of the time |
| 08:32.19 | phil__ | trying to get this damned jump thing working |
| 08:32.27 | Merc | yup good night |
| 08:32.28 | decemberscal | night, nice you meet you two |
| 08:32.31 | Merc | I'll go back to work |
| 08:32.33 | Merc | still morning here |
| 08:47.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Demalii (189b7549@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.155.117.73) |
| 08:47.29 | Demalii | hello, is there a way to keep the editor from autocorrecting my edited assests? =( |
| 08:47.56 | Demalii | starts downloading to fix them right when i try to open the editor |
| 08:55.55 | Merc | redownloading the original sc2 files? |
| 08:56.09 | Merc | sounds like you're editing the core files of sc2 then instead of making your own files |
| 08:57.09 | Demalii | Base.SC2Assets yes =/ |
| 08:58.15 | Merc | any particular reason you're editing those? |
| 09:01.23 | phil__ | btw merc, not that you particularly care but I finally figured out the jump haha |
| 09:01.32 | Merc | niice |
| 09:01.40 | Merc | I know the importance of flexing |
| 09:01.44 | phil__ | haha |
| 09:01.47 | Merc | and I acknowledge your achievement |
| 09:01.52 | Merc | show me the gif |
| 09:01.54 | phil__ | are you a developer? |
| 09:01.55 | Merc | you know you want to |
| 09:01.59 | Merc | hardly |
| 09:02.07 | phil__ | and I'm not exactly sure how to take a gif of a portion of my screen |
| 09:02.09 | Merc | or well, not at all |
| 09:02.11 | phil__ | got a tool I should be aware of? |
| 09:02.14 | phil__ | ah |
| 09:02.18 | Merc | I saw someone use one once, hang on |
| 09:02.20 | phil__ | how did you get into map making? |
| 09:02.23 | Merc | looked really good |
| 09:02.31 | phil__ | cool cool |
| 09:03.39 | Merc | ah |
| 09:03.42 | Demalii | Ok I will do my best to explain. Cliffside variances.. Some maps have cool manmade, but I needed it to be, not with variances on each cliffside, I wanted it to look all the same. |
| 09:03.50 | Merc | someone shared this here once to ask about an arrow going sideways: http://gyazo.com/6c58712bb87179506f48519fc93bf3b0 |
| 09:03.54 | Merc | that website looks pretty neat |
| 09:04.29 | phil__ | looks promising |
| 09:04.48 | Merc | sounds out of my league Demalii, but why dont you save your changes in the map file? |
| 09:04.50 | Demalii | Zhakul'Das Terrain (manmade cliff) is what I am talking about. |
| 09:05.16 | Demalii | because I am removing the textures from the asset so it cannot be loaded as a variance.. |
| 09:05.35 | Demalii | Therefore the few files I leave will be exactly as I want the cliffside to look, not varried. |
| 09:05.46 | Merc | definitely out of my league then :P |
| 09:06.05 | Demalii | I don't know how to alter the variances of a cliffside otherwise. |
| 09:06.27 | Demalii | sigh |
| 09:06.36 | Demalii | dunno wat to dur |
| 09:06.54 | Merc | sorry dude, I'm at the stage where I struggle to make new units, cheat by making duplications and have weird errors |
| 09:07.04 | Demalii | haha |
| 09:07.16 | phil__ | haha |
| 09:07.20 | phil__ | I'm at that point myself |
| 09:07.24 | phil__ | http://gyazo.com/0ca92b3323444d506f15537cd7ed02c7 |
| 09:07.39 | Merc | damn, that was fast |
| 09:07.41 | phil__ | so I have placement working, where the ultra won't leap into the middle of a building |
| 09:07.47 | Demalii | you guys ever seen "fractalisk"? |
| 09:07.48 | phil__ | but I want to be able to jump on units |
| 09:08.02 | phil__ | nope |
| 09:08.08 | Demalii | he made in like an hour or something, and it was timed on here haha |
| 09:08.17 | Demalii | just search it, youtube will show |
| 09:08.18 | Merc | I just copied my jump from the giant yeti |
| 09:08.32 | Demalii | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSCgFvtI6PM |
| 09:08.37 | Merc | did an aoe stun on the units it landed on |
| 09:08.50 | Merc | worked fine until I messed around with it too much and fucked it all u |
| 09:08.50 | Merc | o |
| 09:08.53 | Merc | up* |
| 09:08.54 | phil__ | haha |
| 09:09.09 | phil__ | any suggestions for effects upon takeoff and landing? |
| 09:09.18 | phil__ | I never played the campaign |
| 09:09.20 | Merc | what the fuck |
| 09:09.23 | Merc | scary ultralisk |
| 09:09.31 | phil__ | so I'm privy to all existing effects |
| 09:09.52 | phil__ | that ultra is hilairous |
| 09:10.02 | Merc | check through the animations to see if you can use anything as a jump animation? |
| 09:10.12 | Merc | other than that.. spawn dust cloud actor I guess :p |
| 09:10.26 | phil__ | dust cloud actor hmm |
| 09:11.07 | Merc | loads of effects you can search up with the name "Impact" in the browser |
| 09:11.11 | Merc | must be something you can use |
| 09:11.21 | phil__ | okay |
| 09:22.25 | phil__ | holy shit - actors are complex |
| 09:23.02 | Merc | entire goddamn editor is complex if you ask me |
| 09:23.06 | phil__ | haha |
| 09:23.31 | phil__ | yeah but "new actor" gives a list of subclasses bigger than units/effects/abilities/behaviors/and movers combined |
| 09:25.19 | Merc | yup, big old cardhouse |
| 09:25.43 | Merc | probably very nice to work with if you know how it's built |
| 09:29.59 | phil__ | haha |
| 09:30.17 | Demalii | just keep learning things day by day |
| 09:30.27 | phil__ | Man, it's just so far removed from the last time I seriously sat down to make a map back in high school |
| 09:30.37 | Demalii | wat.. on sc1? |
| 09:30.41 | phil__ | yeh |
| 09:30.44 | Demalii | damn, heard that |
| 09:30.48 | phil__ | and even further back - aoe II |
| 09:30.52 | Demalii | did ya'll ever bound? |
| 09:30.58 | phil__ | bound? |
| 09:31.01 | phil__ | oh no |
| 09:31.03 | Demalii | bound maps.. |
| 09:31.08 | phil__ | never got into those for some reason |
| 09:31.09 | duckies | bound maps were awesome |
| 09:31.11 | duckies | =D |
| 09:31.13 | phil__ | ha |
| 09:31.23 | phil__ | there are some maps I would love to see ported over to sc2 though |
| 09:31.25 | duckies | too bad I never beaten any really difficult one |
| 09:31.30 | phil__ | one of my favorite unique maps was mount impossible |
| 09:31.41 | Demalii | dunno it |
| 09:31.43 | duckies | with the probe building pylons? |
| 09:31.46 | phil__ | yeahp |
| 09:31.47 | phil__ | haha |
| 09:31.49 | duckies | hehe |
| 09:31.51 | phil__ | the ai was hilarious |
| 09:31.56 | Demalii | duckies, have you played any bounds in sc2/ |
| 09:32.00 | duckies | a few |
| 09:32.17 | Demalii | any chance you would want to view something and give me a little feed back? |
| 09:32.19 | Merc | what's a bound map |
| 09:32.46 | Demalii | like an obstacle course? |
| 09:33.32 | Merc | doesnt ring a bell |
| 09:33.34 | duckies | yeah, that almost goes into a rythm domain where adjust your brain to a certain pattern and then reflectly click |
| 09:33.35 | duckies | :D |
| 09:33.48 | duckies | that didn't make much sense |
| 09:34.08 | duckies | anyway, demalii, the bounds on sc2 that I played were easy |
| 09:34.09 | Demalii | better than mine |
| 09:34.17 | duckies | hard bounds I failed and never looked back |
| 09:34.17 | Demalii | you remember blulit bound? |
| 09:34.22 | Demalii | from sc1? |
| 09:34.26 | Demalii | or.. heaven bound? |
| 09:34.47 | Demalii | both were easier |
| 09:35.01 | duckies | I don't remember bound names unfortunately, just that I enjoyed bounding and nice pictures they usualy came with |
| 09:35.13 | Demalii | lol so true |
| 09:35.47 | duckies | aand I'm also now at work, so if you want feedback you'd need to ping me ~6-7 hours later |
| 09:36.04 | Demalii | all g |
| 09:36.13 | duckies | but if it's not hardcore, I'll check it |
| 09:36.47 | phil__ | Merc - a bound map is basically an obstacle course |
| 09:37.03 | Merc | but why the word "bound" |
| 09:37.05 | phil__ | mostly timing a unit to go through patterns of moving units that will kill you |
| 09:37.12 | phil__ | not sure actually |
| 09:37.15 | Merc | ah like that |
| 09:37.18 | Merc | sort of a gauntlet |
| 09:37.23 | phil__ | yeah yeah |
| 09:37.24 | Merc | or.. frogger? |
| 09:37.29 | phil__ | basically haha |
| 09:37.30 | duckies | mostly explosions in patterns tho |
| 09:37.33 | phil__ | yeah |
| 09:37.37 | phil__ | I didn't know how to explain that |
| 09:37.45 | phil__ | locations to be specific haha |
| 09:38.08 | phil__ | with animations associated |
| 09:38.35 | duckies | some of the better bounds were damn awesome, I remember the one where a dozen lurkers constantly attacked invisible dt which ran around them clockwise. It looked so cool back in sc1 |
| 09:39.13 | duckies | and sound assets of constantly dying HTs and Overlors.. BLAARGH!~~! |
| 09:41.03 | Demalii | you should remember blulit =p |
| 09:45.13 | duckies | no memory of the names, I even barely remember nameo of one of my favorite map types - impossible scenarios |
| 09:46.20 | duckies | I remember some terrains and challenges, but not names :/ |
| 09:50.46 | duckies | heh, I even played defenses back then. Mario defense, World defense (with draft punk around the world loop), Even HGMA .. so good |
| 09:51.07 | duckies | I definitely enjoyed way more stuff back then than I do now =/ |
| 09:52.09 | duckies | the game just had that charm, with it's aestethics, visuals, audio and pathfinding >.> |
| 09:53.17 | duckies | High and Dark templars had this aura of cool around them, while their sc2 counterparts are just cheesefaces with forgettable quotes and appearances |
| 09:54.31 | duckies | ok, enough of this nostalgia dive, what's gone is gone =/ |
| 09:55.00 | Merc | you'll never be young again |
| 09:56.44 | duckies | pfft, I'm forever young, in my heart I shall carry the memories of golden age with a dream to witness ressurection of joy once moar! |
| 09:56.56 | duckies | bwahahas |
| 09:57.07 | Merc | better chip off the layers of jade then :p |
| 10:04.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@cpc16-broo8-2-0-cust158.14-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 10:04.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jademus (~jademus.s@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 10:46.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-212-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:52.02 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-212-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:54.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-212-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:19.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Swordman (5d80191d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.128.25.29) |
| 12:13.25 | Goa_ | ohhh bnet launcher now has launch editor icon, surely that will generate more mappers... |
| 12:14.25 | Merc | I still havent seen that |
| 12:14.35 | Merc | gonna keep calling you liars until I see it |
| 12:14.46 | Goa_ | It bnet launcher about half hour ago |
| 12:14.51 | Goa_ | updated* |
| 12:14.57 | Merc | liar |
| 12:15.51 | Ahli | on US, the launcher updated yesterday already :D |
| 12:16.10 | Goa_ | http://pbrd.co/1sBwihP |
| 12:16.44 | Merc | nice fake, liar |
| 12:16.47 | Goa_ | :D |
| 12:16.53 | Merc | hardly looks noticeable at all |
| 12:17.01 | Merc | but maybe it will spark some interest |
| 12:17.04 | Merc | not that I believe you |
| 12:47.39 | Swordman | someone wanna test my arcade game "Project Z"? |
| 13:00.00 | Swordman | i guess that means 'no' ? |
| 13:00.11 | Merc | currently at work, so kinda impossible |
| 13:33.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster pirate (175b8b30@gateway/web/freenode/ip.23.91.139.48) |
| 13:38.44 | pirate | ahoy |
| 13:46.42 | pirate | bleh, so many of these games use that ridiculous sc2 font |
| 13:49.31 | Ahli | sc2 has 4 fonts |
| 13:49.54 | Ahli | 2 of those have funny vertical alignments for some of the letters like "t" |
| 13:51.25 | pirate | here on out it's custom fonts for me |
| 13:53.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-231-221.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 13:53.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets) |
| 14:07.10 | pirate | welp, now that blizz has put a alt/updated version embargo on semi-finalists, now seems like a good time to work on the sublime text galaxy package |
| 14:37.05 | Ahli | embargo? |
| 14:37.14 | Ahli | did they lock the versions? |
| 14:38.25 | pirate | nah, they emailed us and said "please take down any non RTC versions for the voting period to minimize confusion and be fair" |
| 14:49.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@p5B0312AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:55.05 | Ahli | I'm just noticing that I've a few more bugs in my map due to my last minute spell additions |
| 14:57.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Teratron (563a22a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.58.34.166) |
| 15:12.47 | Jademus | =D |
| 15:13.51 | Ahli | well, I got sick of the map after those 5 weeks... but now I feel like working a bit again :D |
| 15:14.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (4d26cd7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.38.205.122) |
| 15:14.59 | pirate | I'm glad I have an excuse not to work on rogue star |
| 15:15.18 | pirate | Jade, let's talk about galaxy.JSON-tmLanguage :D |
| 15:16.05 | pirate | http://i.imgur.com/NL96wbc.jpg |
| 15:16.16 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 15:16.51 | Ahli | did I miss something while working/playing heroes/D3? |
| 15:17.18 | JademusSreg | JSON is a data serialization format, galaxy is a C-like scripting language, though it also bears some similarity to UnrealScript. |
| 15:17.53 | Ahli | -> json is no language |
| 15:18.01 | Ahli | like xml is no language |
| 15:18.15 | pirate | er, right |
| 15:18.18 | JademusSreg | "JSON is a data serialization format" |
| 15:18.26 | pirate | following this: http://docs.sublimetext.info/en/latest/reference/syntaxdefs.html |
| 15:18.49 | JademusSreg | But it does have syntax, as it is a human-readable data serialization format. |
| 15:18.59 | pirate | the JSON version of tmLanguage files for Sublime Text is much easier to read than the XML version |
| 15:20.02 | JademusSreg | Cool. |
| 15:21.02 | JademusSreg | The numbers are the capture groups, match, begin fields are regex patterns (you'll want to know specifically what regex version is used here). |
| 15:22.07 | pirate | I should put this on git |
| 15:22.07 | pirate | https://pastee.org/6777z |
| 15:22.35 | pirate | I started with the C# package (there was no C..?) |
| 15:23.05 | JademusSreg | PCRE is quite common (SC2/Herostorm have PCRE embedded in it), but will especially want to make sure it's not using a restricted subset of PCRE patterns, as it's also fairly common (notepad++ doesn't allow a number of expressions). |
| 15:24.28 | JademusSreg | singleQuotedString would be more accurately described as singleQuotedCharLiteral. |
| 15:24.47 | JademusSreg | Since galaxy inexplicably supports the char type. |
| 15:25.11 | pirate | also unsure where to place include, native, typedef |
| 15:26.15 | JademusSreg | Once you get this on github or dropbox, I could play a more direct role in developing it. =D |
| 15:26.49 | pirate | absolutely sounds like the best course of action |
| 15:27.52 | JademusSreg | Today is not quite so busy, so I intend to work on AI for Mesk's Apex F campaign, and could also tinker with sublimey. |
| 15:29.21 | pirate | kk, gotta download some stuff to get git flowing proper |
| 15:29.26 | pirate | (bad pirate) |
| 15:29.34 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 15:30.26 | JademusSreg | I haven't made any commits on my gitstuff in quite some time, need to do that when I get the cell surface prototype looking pretty. |
| 15:41.30 | Goa_ | duckies Platform escape?:D |
| 15:41.43 | duckies | sure =D |
| 15:41.44 | JademusSreg | ??? |
| 15:41.55 | pirate | ..downloading .net 4 |
| 15:42.07 | duckies | we need to beat it without makers help =3 |
| 15:42.17 | Goa_ | yeah |
| 15:42.58 | Goa_ | btw he sent me the map I might add some stuff to it, like a toplist |
| 15:43.37 | duckies | ooh, cool |
| 15:49.00 | Ahli | hmm, the publishing window froze a bit for me |
| 16:04.00 | JademusSreg | Reboot time. |
| 16:05.17 | pirate | https://github.com/danielthepirate/SubtextGalaxyPackage |
| 16:05.20 | pirate | doh |
| 16:10.25 | pirate | summons forth the rebooted jade |
| 16:14.08 | duckies | sry goa_ if I don't go mapmake now while I feel like it who knows when I will.. |
| 16:14.22 | Goa_ | :D |
| 16:15.49 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-212-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:17.09 | Goa_ | duckies boring:D |
| 16:18.11 | duckies | that's cause you don't have emotional envestement in sc lore goa_, which was expected >.> |
| 16:18.20 | duckies | *investement |
| 16:18.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-212-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:20.53 | Goa_ | I find most SC stories bad |
| 16:23.59 | duckies | probably, but I'm still captivated by the atmosphere of original games. And then sc2 just had to come stomp on my face and expectations. |
| 16:24.40 | duckies | I didin't even read those sc short stories they put up pereodically, so I wouldn't know |
| 16:34.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster JademusSreg (~jademus.s@76.123.235.103) |
| 16:35.38 | pirate | https://github.com/danielthepirate/SubtextGalaxyPackage |
| 16:36.00 | JademusSreg | =D Back. |
| 16:36.08 | JademusSreg | Windows shit itself for a bit there. |
| 16:36.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster IskatuMesk (4645ef99@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.69.239.153) |
| 16:36.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-231-221.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:39.15 | pirate | was gonna say if reboot normally takes 30 mins |
| 16:39.30 | pirate | unless jade is actually a highly complex AI/supercomputer |
| 16:40.02 | JademusSreg | Not mutually exclusive. |
| 16:41.02 | JademusSreg | Though that does remind me of some particularly silly people in the neurohacking scene who pretend to be advanced AI. |
| 16:41.37 | Merc | hi I am 13 yr old ukranian boy |
| 16:41.45 | Merc | plz think of me as human |
| 16:41.55 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 16:42.15 | Merc | who this Turing you speak of? |
| 16:42.22 | Merc | herp derp |
| 16:43.16 | IskatuMesk | huehuehue |
| 16:44.10 | JademusSreg | Advanced AI comes in two flavours: designed and evolved. Humans aren't currently capable of designing advanced AIs, and advanced AIs developed through evolutionary process would be so alien as to effectively be incapable of communication with humans in any fashion said humans would recognize. |
| 16:46.09 | Merc | are you not a belieber in the singularity |
| 16:46.51 | JademusSreg | Ridiculous. Belief in general, The Singularity in particular. |
| 16:47.13 | Merc | but, what about the coolaid |
| 16:48.10 | JademusSreg | With all due respect, Kurzweil can eat a bag of genitals. |
| 16:48.37 | Merc | so is that more than just dicks |
| 16:48.43 | Merc | like, balls and vaginas as well? |
| 16:49.17 | JademusSreg | Would be implicitly sexist to specify any set of genitals to the exclusion of others. |
| 16:49.20 | pirate | like a whole bag? |
| 16:49.31 | Merc | duffel bag, messenger bag? |
| 16:49.33 | pirate | bigger or smaller than a breadbox |
| 16:49.36 | Merc | this is so unspecific |
| 16:49.38 | JademusSreg | A bakers dozen. |
| 16:50.00 | Merc | depending on girth, that could be any size bag |
| 16:50.18 | pirate | are these mutilated genitals and if so, where did they come from? |
| 16:50.31 | JademusSreg | Feel free to go Silicon Valley on this subject. |
| 16:50.45 | Merc | don't even know what that means |
| 16:50.51 | pirate | what poor 11 souls deserved to be scarred for life just to get justice for Kurzeil's crimes |
| 16:50.58 | JademusSreg | 13 |
| 16:51.04 | pirate | really? |
| 16:51.13 | Merc | yup, baker's dozen is one more isnt it |
| 16:51.21 | Merc | in case one was shit or something |
| 16:51.22 | pirate | wow |
| 16:51.31 | pirate | my pirate's life is a lie |
| 16:51.41 | Merc | all that pastry |
| 16:51.43 | JademusSreg | At least you're not a baker. |
| 16:51.45 | Merc | for nothing |
| 16:52.01 | pirate | this entire time I've been thinking bakers were cheap bastards |
| 16:52.26 | Merc | you're thinking of fish salesmen |
| 16:52.43 | pirate | I must go out and apologize to a number of bakers |
| 16:52.45 | Merc | anyway, I kinda like the postive futurist approach |
| 16:52.47 | Merc | no harm in it |
| 16:53.03 | JademusSreg | Yelp review for thegreybaker: "Great pastries, masterful confections, but always shorts me exactly 2!!! when I order a bakers dozen. Would not pillage again." |
| 16:53.06 | pirate | but before I do, is there anything else I need to do with my mangled git repo? |
| 16:53.49 | JademusSreg | Dunno. If there's an issue, I'll bug you about it later. |
| 16:53.56 | pirate | yar |
| 16:57.30 | IskatuMesk | I keep sacks |
| 16:57.44 | IskatuMesk | bags too small for my harvest |
| 16:57.56 | Merc | that's good to know |
| 16:58.57 | JademusSreg | They make for a quite svelt purse. |
| 17:13.59 | JademusSreg | Accidentally forked instead of cloned, fix'd. |
| 17:14.44 | Merc | about to make the warlock |
| 17:14.49 | Merc | no clue how he should look |
| 17:15.02 | JademusSreg | ??? |
| 17:15.14 | Merc | so many options |
| 17:21.01 | A1win | why am I suddenly getting ideas that'd work nicely on SC2 now that I thought I was done with it D: |
| 17:22.57 | Arcane|Work1 | Because you have experience and thus it is easier of how to visualizze how it will work |
| 17:23.20 | Arcane|Work1 | Also, good morning |
| 17:23.26 | Arcane|Work1 | Also, Hai JademusSreg |
| 17:23.50 | Arcane|Work1 | Nice wonderful references to gentailia |
| 17:24.26 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 17:27.16 | Arcane|Work1 | So, editor now launchable from desktop app, yay |
| 17:28.11 | pirate|StormySea | wasnt this always... |
| 17:28.15 | pirate|StormySea | oh with your virtual environment |
| 17:28.50 | Arcane|Work1 | No, I refer to the Desktop App from Blizzard, it was not always thus, it was added with last patch to the Desktip App |
| 17:29.09 | pirate|StormySea | ohhhhh |
| 17:29.18 | pirate|StormySea | I see yeah, little bitty green icon |
| 17:29.30 | Arcane|Work1 | Before, you had to launch the editor standalone. Now there is the link in the desktop app |
| 17:29.36 | pirate|StormySea | interesting |
| 17:54.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 17:55.12 | Merc | this changes EVERYTHING. |
| 18:01.38 | Arcane|Work1 | What does? |
| 18:01.53 | Arcane|Work1 | Me winning the lotto? |
| 18:02.20 | Merc | the tiny little green icon that lets you open the map editor |
| 18:11.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster kritzikratzi (~kritzikra@d86-32-240-10.cust.tele2.at) |
| 18:23.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster tuord (6c37dc98@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.55.220.152) |
| 18:23.55 | tuord | wassup dudes and dudettes |
| 18:31.54 | JademusSreg | Hallo toa'uld. |
| 18:37.29 | tuord | how y'all doin |
| 18:38.01 | JademusSreg | Sregtacularly. |
| 18:50.22 | pirate|StormySea | wow, r/gaming mods do NOT like me |
| 18:51.14 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 18:51.48 | pirate|StormySea | submitted rogue star release trailer to r/gaming - self promotion of free game and such |
| 18:54.28 | pirate|StormySea | doesnt show up in the new section, pm r/gaming mods asking if I broke rules > "No personal websites or videos/channels. No referral or affiliate links." |
| 18:54.36 | pirate|StormySea | :/ |
| 18:54.36 | IskatuMesk | hi cuties |
| 18:54.54 | pirate|StormySea | ask if kotaku write up is okay (kotaku is clearly not my personal website) |
| 18:55.03 | pirate|StormySea | no reply |
| 18:55.08 | pirate|StormySea | post kotaku link |
| 18:55.10 | pirate|StormySea | gets hidden too |
| 18:55.19 | IskatuMesk | > posting on reddit |
| 18:55.22 | IskatuMesk | huehuehue |
| 18:55.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-193-231-221.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:56.39 | pirate|StormySea | worked well on r/starcraft >> even though they care more about pro gamer stuff than arcade stuff |
| 18:57.07 | IskatuMesk | I would just stay as far away from reddit as possible, try TL and, if you really like the smell of dog urine, the b.ent forums |
| 18:57.15 | JademusSreg | doesn't bother promoting. |
| 18:57.19 | pirate|StormySea | nah man, redditors are my people |
| 18:57.23 | pirate|StormySea | trust |
| 18:57.37 | pirate|StormySea | jade isn't trying to win a contest :P |
| 18:57.47 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 18:58.02 | IskatuMesk | that's because jade IS the contest |
| 19:03.14 | pirate|StormySea | "We also dont allow Gawker Articles" |
| 19:04.15 | JademusSreg | btw, this is partly how the melee AIs get information about what the game host configured for AI build in the lobby. AIGetUserInt(player, c_currentBuildIndex); |
| 19:05.26 | tuord | kotaku used to be cool |
| 19:05.47 | tuord | until bunch of horrible writers & articles started poppin up |
| 19:06.08 | JademusSreg | AISetUserInt called from the maps could be used to set which AI personality should be used, rather than the current approach employed by the Apex mod (player int and such). |
| 19:06.23 | tuord | im not an apex predator |
| 19:08.27 | tuord | reddit is hit or miss |
| 19:08.32 | tuord | highly depends on subreddit |
| 19:08.46 | pirate|StormySea | so I submit the PC gamer article |
| 19:08.57 | tuord | Stormy what're you doin? |
| 19:09.42 | JademusSreg | Self promoting on reddit, haha. |
| 19:10.06 | pirate|StormySea | I have a pretty good track record on that front |
| 19:10.48 | tuord | omg tactical rpg gmeplay like heroes? |
| 19:10.53 | tuord | that's cool man |
| 19:10.58 | tuord | i actually thought about doing that a whileback |
| 19:11.03 | pirate|StormySea | lol thanks, where did you see it? |
| 19:11.26 | tuord | i just searched your map name on sc2mapster lol |
| 19:11.37 | pirate|StormySea | ah |
| 19:12.08 | tuord | ever since i saw someone implement the heroes tactical gameplay, i never someone actually create an entire RPG out of it |
| 19:12.29 | tuord | i was thinking about that but w/ pokemon style elements |
| 19:12.50 | tuord | then i noticed somoene else was doing pokemon-ish RPG so i held off on that idea |
| 19:13.29 | tuord | and now it's too late cuz i lost motivation :[ |
| 19:15.21 | tuord | how does the dungeon crawling work? Is it like procedurally generated dungeons? |
| 19:16.53 | pirate|StormySea | nah, currently it's just a static level |
| 19:17.08 | pirate|StormySea | procedural generation is planned for someday, but we all know that story |
| 19:17.44 | Goa_ | duckies one more try on escape?:D |
| 19:18.28 | duckies | gao_ in 10 min is fine with ya? |
| 19:18.33 | Goa_ | k |
| 19:18.37 | Goa_ | I start lobby until |
| 19:19.24 | duckies | k |
| 19:20.17 | tuord | rejoin feature in sc2........ that'd be nuts |
| 19:20.26 | tuord | nuts-tastically awesoe |
| 19:21.21 | tuord | if there was a way for random players to join-midgame, that'd be even more awesome. It could solve the problem for leavers ruining games. |
| 19:22.03 | tuord | very very important for big long multiplayer RPG maps |
| 19:22.20 | tuord | not like many exist to begin with but still! |
| 19:22.24 | JademusSreg | Could happen. |
| 19:22.41 | tuord | you can make a diablo-esque map work too |
| 19:22.50 | tuord | basically sustainable sessions |
| 19:22.51 | Goa_ | it shouldnt be hard to implement after all you can continue games from replay now, but I would bet it will never happen:D |
| 19:22.53 | JademusSreg | Based on what's been data mined from Herostorm. |
| 19:23.16 | tuord | is heros of storm just rejoining or also randoms joining-midgame? |
| 19:23.27 | JademusSreg | Dunno. |
| 19:24.31 | tuord | iunno what to call it, intrusion? |
| 19:24.43 | A1win | resume from replay has to fastforward the game before it can be resumed, it's different from rejoin |
| 19:24.53 | Ahli | rejoin does the same a1win |
| 19:25.01 | JademusSreg | Intrusion? Congress? Penetration? Intercourse? |
| 19:25.15 | A1win | oh, well that sounds sucky :P |
| 19:25.17 | tuord | intrusion is my kind of thing then |
| 19:25.34 | Ahli | so, horrible computers might not be able to rejoin at all as the replay only slightly faster than normal speed |
| 19:25.43 | tuord | do you think it would be too much work for blizzard tho? |
| 19:25.51 | tuord | based on how the engine works |
| 19:26.01 | Ahli | you would need to transfer all game data |
| 19:26.18 | Ahli | and then do the replay thing, too, to reach live |
| 19:27.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (~moorhsum@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:30.13 | tuord | Moorhsum has returned! |
| 19:30.16 | Moorhsum | tuord, u said he can't you can. |
| 19:31.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster phil (32c8f2e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.200.242.230) |
| 19:31.17 | tuord | uncle phil wassup man |
| 19:35.43 | tuord | global & server-sided banks. In my dreams it'll happen |
| 19:36.08 | Ahli | global banks? |
| 19:36.18 | tuord | yessir |
| 19:36.26 | Ahli | so everyone can edit your game's bank? |
| 19:36.37 | tuord | nossir |
| 19:37.05 | Ahli | or do you mean one that is able to be read by each map? |
| 19:37.57 | Ahli | so, a single unique one that contains settings all match instances with your map can edit to save stats or something? |
| 19:39.18 | tuord | maybe |
| 19:42.08 | tuord | such a bank should be editable by the author at least |
| 19:42.14 | tuord | in case somethin goes wrong |
| 19:42.22 | tuord | which it will |
| 19:42.58 | A1win | can also use versioning |
| 19:43.07 | A1win | if version < current version, rewrite bank |
| 19:43.22 | Ahli | ^ |
| 19:43.45 | tuord | rewrite the entire bank? |
| 19:43.52 | JademusSreg | By hand. |
| 19:43.53 | Ahli | or patch the data, etc |
| 19:43.54 | A1win | well whatever you need to be rewritten |
| 19:43.56 | JademusSreg | With a pencil. |
| 19:44.29 | tuord | woah slowdown |
| 19:44.52 | tuord | blizz can only do so much at a time. We gotta take it slow. server-side first |
| 19:45.25 | Ahli | using versions in your bank is something you do yourself |
| 19:46.51 | tuord | blizz would need to allow us to make our own bank management system instead of putting all the stuff in the map |
| 19:47.11 | tuord | Ahli waddap dre, got your back |
| 19:47.30 | tuord | you and me handin out naps. Chrome hydraulics. |
| 19:47.51 | Ahli | wat? |
| 19:48.03 | IskatuMesk | buttered butts |
| 19:48.40 | tuord | Ahli what was that map u made called |
| 19:48.56 | Ahli | ping test |
| 19:49.01 | tuord | the one that got popular |
| 19:49.21 | Ahli | none? |
| 19:49.27 | tuord | really? |
| 19:49.34 | tuord | could've sworn u made something popular |
| 19:49.43 | tuord | or have i mistaken you for someone else |
| 19:49.57 | Ahli | I made diablo mortal shroud, if you meant that map |
| 19:50.26 | tuord | nope, don't ring any cowbells |
| 19:50.55 | tuord | whatever happened to rodrigo |
| 19:51.10 | Swordman | someone wanna test my map "Project Z"? it's a Freeroam Survival game, where you have to survive against zombies and other players, because they may attack or kill you to get your minerals. |
| 19:51.59 | tuord | Gonna call that time period, the "Rodrigo era" - sc2mapster circa 2011 |
| 19:52.24 | JademusSreg | http://ca.linkedin.com/in/alvesrod |
| 19:52.47 | tuord | the legend |
| 19:53.22 | tuord | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:53.27 | pirate|StormySea | hahahahahaha rodrigo |
| 19:54.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin_Hendricks (~Dustin_He@216.240.30.25) |
| 19:54.37 | tuord | love how he put his youtube channel and nexus word wars on the list of projects |
| 19:56.10 | Swordman | love how nobody answers me |
| 19:56.24 | JademusSreg | Ah, my apologies, sword. No. |
| 19:56.32 | tuord | i'd love to test but i cant play sc2 here |
| 19:57.39 | Ahli | pschology o_0 |
| 19:57.52 | JademusSreg | y |
| 19:58.13 | tuord | he understands the gamer's psyche |
| 19:58.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster phil (475a5c79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.90.92.121) |
| 19:58.51 | tuord | welcome back uncle phil |
| 20:01.00 | Dustin_Hendricks | hola |
| 20:01.06 | tuord | hi dustin browder |
| 20:04.44 | tuord | alright guys i got an idea: lets brainstorm a way to make some secure banks |
| 20:04.52 | tuord | as close as we can |
| 20:06.23 | JademusSreg | Easy: wait for Blizzard to release the server side bank feature. |
| 20:06.26 | Dustin_Hendricks | ^ |
| 20:06.29 | tuord | ^ |
| 20:06.33 | IskatuMesk | > |
| 20:06.39 | tuord | v |
| 20:06.39 | Dustin_Hendricks | \/ |
| 20:06.47 | Dustin_Hendricks | Damn a V....brilliant |
| 20:06.51 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 20:06.54 | tuord | im always ahead of the curve |
| 20:06.56 | Swordman | that'll probably never happen |
| 20:07.00 | tuord | exactly |
| 20:07.08 | tuord | so we must come up with our own solution |
| 20:07.32 | A1win | slightly harder: hack blizzard and implement server side banks for them |
| 20:07.55 | JademusSreg | ËË
ËËââââââ⨠|
| 20:09.08 | tuord | here's what we know about banks: they're stored on the client and they're stupidly easy to find and edit |
| 20:09.12 | tuord | here's what we don't know: |
| 20:09.39 | IskatuMesk | are the butts buttered |
| 20:09.51 | JademusSreg | Anyway, can't be done. Anything you code into a map or mod, I can just as easily run to reverse or write new banks. Signature generation is cracked, too, just takes far more parameters, but trivial once those parameters are known. |
| 20:10.12 | tuord | is obfuscation the best we can do? |
| 20:10.18 | JademusSreg | Won't work. |
| 20:10.38 | Dustin_Hendricks | There is already Bank Signatures |
| 20:10.43 | tuord | bank signatures are bad |
| 20:10.47 | Swordman | it's so sad. i'm in the largest mapping community of Starcraft 2, but i still can't find anyone to play my map >.> |
| 20:11.12 | JademusSreg | Feel free to compress and encrypt the bank content, obfuscate the script, and use a signature, it'll still get cracked. |
| 20:11.13 | tuord | Swordman, i'm going to be honest with you: the mapping community in sc2 is dying |
| 20:11.18 | IskatuMesk | largest sc2 community is still pretty tiny |
| 20:11.24 | A1win | Swordman, maybe you should be in the larger arcade game player community instead |
| 20:11.30 | A1win | *largest |
| 20:12.35 | tuord | Swordman you should advertise your map to players intead of map makers. They're usually more willing to test your map |
| 20:13.01 | Swordman | sadly, nobody is in the arcade-chat-channels in starcraft 2 |
| 20:13.11 | tuord | dayum shame |
| 20:13.45 | tuord | what about the forums? |
| 20:14.09 | A1win | it's really difficult to find testers for random arcade maps, tried that myself too |
| 20:14.22 | Swordman | actually if i wait 30 minutes, i get a full lobby |
| 20:14.30 | Swordman | minus 3 players who always rage quit after they die |
| 20:14.39 | A1win | yeah |
| 20:14.42 | Arcane|Work1 | Swordman: unfortunately there is the usual dichotomy at play here: Those most qualified to give you feedback are time constrained by their own projects or dabbling, and those with the most free time are often the least qualified. |
| 20:14.43 | tuord | you get a full lobby of completely random players? |
| 20:14.48 | Swordman | yes |
| 20:14.54 | tuord | within 30 minutes? |
| 20:14.58 | Swordman | yup |
| 20:15.02 | tuord | lucky bastard! |
| 20:15.16 | Swordman | waiting for 5 minutes -> already 4 players |
| 20:15.18 | A1win | smaller maps are easier to fill |
| 20:15.23 | tuord | very impressive |
| 20:15.24 | Swordman | and i usually get positive reviews |
| 20:15.28 | Swordman | its a 10 players game |
| 20:15.36 | tuord | Swordman your map is going places, i can taste it |
| 20:16.01 | tuord | if you can get a 10p map full within 24 hours, people know u exist |
| 20:16.06 | Swordman | lol |
| 20:16.09 | tuord | and it's a huge step forward |
| 20:16.19 | Swordman | the arcade isn't that bad. i have to wait some time but it works |
| 20:16.37 | tuord | the biggest hurdle is just going from 0 to full lobby of random players |
| 20:16.39 | Arcane|Work1 | and tuord, modding beyond simple texture mods or simple mods of any kind, is dying, since if you have the skill to go beyond that, it is relatively easy to hop on the steam/mobile bandwagon (although I find it amusing people think they will be any more successful there then here, as the market has already is saturated, and 99% of people make jackall money from it) |
| 20:17.14 | pirate|StormySea | oh good, theyve let me post |
| 20:17.17 | Arcane|Work1 | To be more concise: If you expect any reasonable income from entertainment production of any kind, you are very much in for a shock |
| 20:17.30 | Ahli | "jackall" what does that mean? |
| 20:17.41 | tuord | people expect income from making sc2 maps? Whatever happened to makin maps for fun? |
| 20:17.42 | Arcane|Work1 | jackall = nothing |
| 20:17.57 | Ahli | why don't you say "no"? :D |
| 20:18.14 | IskatuMesk | I would never disgrace my heritage by working on mobile stuff thankfully |
| 20:18.23 | tuord | altho tbh, makin maps for fun is overrated |
| 20:18.30 | Arcane|Work1 | tuord: people are expecting income from producing entertainment content, ignoring the very stark reality that if it is that easy to create, it is worth very little. |
| 20:18.33 | tuord | there's gotta be incentive beyond just "fun: |
| 20:18.44 | Swordman | i may live stream my map now |
| 20:18.53 | IskatuMesk | fun is about it |
| 20:19.02 | pirate|StormySea | I'm slowly attempting to monetize via mod making |
| 20:19.05 | IskatuMesk | if you are making something for other than fun in custom content you are in for a bad time |
| 20:19.05 | Arcane|Work1 | Well, I did it purely out of interest/loyalty/fun (loyalty in that the map I worked on I had played for 2.5 years) |
| 20:19.26 | Arcane|Work1 | And the mapmaking, done for fun, along with my education, did land me a very nice internship. |
| 20:19.35 | IskatuMesk | do you turn cranks? |
| 20:19.45 | Arcane|Work1 | (Which I should be working :D, but who does that?) |
| 20:19.47 | tuord | is it wrong to find it fun to expect something in return? |
| 20:19.50 | IskatuMesk | I always envision interns turning cranks |
| 20:19.55 | IskatuMesk | yes |
| 20:19.58 | IskatuMesk | you should expect nothing |
| 20:19.59 | tuord | like i'd love it when people enjoy my stuff |
| 20:20.04 | IskatuMesk | expecting is the road to disappointment |
| 20:20.06 | Arcane|Work1 | IskatuMesk: Thankfully, no, I do actual good stuff :D |
| 20:20.12 | IskatuMesk | oh? |
| 20:20.32 | Arcane|Work1 | And as IskatuMesk has stated, yes, expecting monetary compensation without a contract is wishful thinking. |
| 20:20.40 | pirate|StormySea | tis true |
| 20:21.23 | Arcane|Work1 | Historically, entertainment was financed by wealthy patronage as a display of wealth, or by the state, as a public good or glorying that state. |
| 20:21.24 | IskatuMesk | if you really want to make money in the same lines of custom content you should consider: tool development, asset monetization (turbosquid, commissions) or independent game development |
| 20:21.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 20:21.33 | IskatuMesk | but mapping/modding is certainly not the road for that |
| 20:21.37 | A1win | expecting is passive, it doesn't do anything in itself |
| 20:21.47 | A1win | so why do it |
| 20:21.50 | IskatuMesk | expecting sets you up psychologically for disappointment |
| 20:21.52 | IskatuMesk | re: the top 10 contest |
| 20:22.06 | Arcane|Work1 | Correct, but expecting alters your mental state and thus affects all future actions. |
| 20:22.11 | IskatuMesk | ^ |
| 20:22.49 | tuord | i expect my pants will be very messy |
| 20:22.56 | tuord | if i see it rise in popularity |
| 20:23.00 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 20:23.10 | IskatuMesk | I like how "it" is super vague in this context |
| 20:23.12 | phil | haha |
| 20:23.14 | IskatuMesk | lets my imagination go wild |
| 20:23.22 | phil | this is one of the funnier conversations I've seen in a while |
| 20:23.25 | phil | well, since quitting fb |
| 20:23.33 | tuord | thanks for the complement phil |
| 20:23.45 | JademusSreg | *compliment |
| 20:23.49 | tuord | ^ |
| 20:23.58 | tuord | im used to spell checks in my chat programs |
| 20:24.00 | phil | what does the red mean |
| 20:24.03 | phil | I thought those were pms |
| 20:24.07 | IskatuMesk | means you are hacking |
| 20:24.11 | IskatuMesk | hacker |
| 20:24.20 | Arcane|Work1 | It occurs when you are highlighted, ie your name is mentioned |
| 20:24.22 | phil | I'm hacking up a solution to this terrible code atm |
| 20:24.26 | IskatuMesk | lol |
| 20:24.29 | phil | drivecenter.safewaydriving.com |
| 20:24.30 | phil | shiii |
| 20:24.32 | IskatuMesk | one good hack deserves another |
| 20:24.34 | Arcane|Work1 | so if do phil, this will appear red |
| 20:24.38 | phil | ah |
| 20:24.51 | phil | I always assumed those were pms |
| 20:25.03 | tuord | soooooo what is your favorite map to play in the arcade that isn't your own? |
| 20:25.18 | Arcane|Work1 | You can (depending on client) configure highlight vs pm coloring and notification |
| 20:25.19 | IskatuMesk | I don't play :3 |
| 20:25.23 | phil | I'm pissed - I want MAD to come back |
| 20:25.29 | phil | I googled the shit out of the map creator |
| 20:25.37 | phil | got ahold of him via youtube and he still never re-uploaded it |
| 20:25.41 | JademusSreg | Philedelphia Philharmonic Orchestra. |
| 20:25.49 | Arcane|Work1 | tuord: does it count if it is map I've played extensively, worked on but is techincally not mine? |
| 20:25.50 | tuord | uncle phillip |
| 20:25.55 | A1win | I rather play proper games than arcade maps that are pretty much all garbage |
| 20:25.57 | IskatuMesk | jadey-chan-san-sama-kun |
| 20:26.09 | Arcane|Work1 | A1win: And proper games are any less garbage? |
| 20:26.24 | A1win | some :P |
| 20:26.27 | IskatuMesk | proper games = activision classics, like tongue of the fat man |
| 20:26.28 | IskatuMesk | and Awesome Possum |
| 20:26.30 | IskatuMesk | so good |
| 20:26.35 | Arcane|Work1 | Mechwarrior 2 |
| 20:27.42 | tuord | proper games = nexus word wars |
| 20:27.57 | Swordman | http://www.twitch.tv/swordman100 i'll live stream my game now if you want to check it out |
| 20:28.01 | Dustin_Hendricks | Divinity: Original Sin is an awesome fucking game so far |
| 20:28.09 | Arcane|Work1 | Well, my favorite game is NOTD |
| 20:28.16 | JademusSreg | ⥠ããã§ã¡ãããããã¾ãã ⥠|
| 20:28.18 | tuord | NOTD the sc2 map? |
| 20:28.20 | Dustin_Hendricks | IT's like a modern Baulders Gate free-form RPG |
| 20:28.26 | Arcane|Work1 | Yes |
| 20:28.37 | Arcane|Work1 | But I'm massively biased :D |
| 20:28.42 | tuord | why |
| 20:28.54 | IskatuMesk | original sin is the only game I've actually looked forward to in like... 8 years |
| 20:28.59 | Arcane|Work1 | Played it for 2.5 years, spent last year working on it and working on sequel right now |
| 20:29.05 | IskatuMesk | will be a while before I get to it, though |
| 20:29.27 | Arcane|Work1 | Last 6 months on NOTD 2, it mostly works, adding content at the moment, then more UI stuff + some backend systems |
| 20:29.30 | tuord | i said not your own map! :[ |
| 20:29.41 | Arcane|Work1 | Well I asked. |
| 20:29.56 | Arcane|Work1 | And it techincally is not mine |
| 20:30.21 | Arcane|Work1 | I did not build/design NOTD, I spent most of my time refinining it |
| 20:30.23 | tuord | looks like you had your fair share of work on the map, why is it at least not part of yours? |
| 20:30.52 | JademusSreg | Engineers, haha. |
| 20:31.09 | tuord | ok lemme reword the question: what is your fav map in the arcade that you had not worked on whatsoever? |
| 20:31.47 | JademusSreg | Designers feel they own what they create. Engineers feel they own their labor. =D |
| 20:32.24 | tuord | designers get too much credit. Without the engineer, map is nothing. A huge part of the creation is HOW it was implemented |
| 20:32.58 | tuord | i hope JademusSreg agrees with me |
| 20:33.02 | Arcane|Work1 | Hmm... tricky, since I don't know as I've provided advice to many people in here, so my hand is in a few maps, but if I had to guess, my favorite would probably be... star battle? |
| 20:33.03 | phil | I still don't understand how map engineers (trigger coders basically) lost their touch with creating simple fun maps |
| 20:33.07 | phil | as were rampant on sc1 |
| 20:33.20 | phil | star battle is a very simple game |
| 20:33.35 | phil | was super fun at first - I just need to control more than one unit |
| 20:33.40 | Arcane|Work1 | phil: because triggers are a hammer, and people were given only nails back then, now they are given nails, screws, and joints. |
| 20:33.40 | phil | I get boooored |
| 20:33.47 | JademusSreg | I jest, because neither is an entirely accurate perspective, but are instead rather practical. |
| 20:33.48 | phil | haha true |
| 20:34.01 | phil | arcane, have you ever made a map for little big planet? |
| 20:34.06 | A1win | speaking of design, new idea for rpg/adventure control scheme: take The Sims with its "smart" menus that open on clicking, combine it with SC2 units, your character is unselected and is moved by AI, but you can give it orders by selecting objects (units) and clicking on abilities in *their* command card, like a door would have an ability that tells the character to open/close it (smart cast can be used for a default action for each object) |
| 20:34.25 | phil | ah |
| 20:34.28 | phil | that would be interesting |
| 20:34.41 | phil | I played this game "majesty" back in the day |
| 20:34.43 | JademusSreg | A1, that's doable in SC2, more doable in Herostorm. |
| 20:34.45 | phil | you don't actually control any units |
| 20:34.50 | Arcane|Work1 | Anyone who went from sc1 to sc2 got lost fast, because triggers were cleaned up and limited to their true purpose, dynamic event based stuff, and everthing else was made into data. People attempted to avoid data, and ran headlong into performance issues. |
| 20:34.54 | phil | you just give perks for units to do certain things |
| 20:34.59 | A1win | yeah I know it's doable |
| 20:35.24 | JademusSreg | Herostorm fork adds AI control over User players, which is nice. |
| 20:35.30 | A1win | also, could have enemies mass selectable by giving the "enemy" units to the player himself |
| 20:35.36 | Arcane|Work1 | ahh phil I played that as well, was quite fun |
| 20:35.52 | A1win | so you can cast aoe stuff on unit groups |
| 20:35.55 | phil | super fun |
| 20:37.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster qumanhawk (a2c90c31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.201.12.49) |
| 20:37.39 | tuord | i went from sc1 to sc2 |
| 20:37.50 | tuord | i didnt even touch the wc3 editor because it looked so complicated :X |
| 20:38.22 | JademusSreg | Ouch. |
| 20:38.29 | Swordman | http://www.twitch.tv/swordman100 if you want to take a look at my map |
| 20:39.07 | A1win | nice terrain |
| 20:39.20 | A1win | darkness always makes everything look better |
| 20:39.20 | A1win | :x |
| 20:40.33 | tuord | i like my terrain dark like i like my meat |
| 20:40.43 | A1win | haha, make those buildings smaller |
| 20:40.55 | A1win | looks really out-of-place |
| 20:41.02 | A1win | the turret and supply depot |
| 20:41.59 | A1win | seems like a nice map on the first glance but I'm sceptical of that kind of multiplayer games |
| 20:42.07 | JademusSreg | "i like my terrain like i like my meat" Dark, green and covered in dirt. |
| 20:44.55 | JademusSreg | My version: "i like my terrain like i like my meat" This is not a simile; I like meat terrain. |
| 20:45.18 | A1win | JademusSreg, what did you mean by it working better on herostorm? what does it add to controls? |
| 20:45.29 | JademusSreg | Herostorm fork adds AI control over User players, which is nice. |
| 20:45.45 | JademusSreg | As in AI scripts can run for User slots. |
| 20:46.04 | A1win | oh, and are we able to make our own AI scripts? |
| 20:46.12 | JademusSreg | In tandeom with players or, as Herostorm employs it most obviously, when a player leaves. |
| 20:47.05 | JademusSreg | We can already make our own AI scripts, I just mean it's a new feature Herostorm supports; SC2 doesn't currently permit toggling AI script control of player-occupied USer slots. |
| 20:47.06 | A1win | though in this concept the player's character could just as well be owned by a Computer player |
| 20:47.17 | JademusSreg | Exactly. |
| 20:47.44 | JademusSreg | Herostorm is more efficient in this regard, uses fewer player slots to the same purpose. |
| 20:48.37 | A1win | so errm I don't think I'm familiar at all with AI scripts, where are they located and what are they written in? |
| 20:49.12 | JademusSreg | If/when features in the Herostorm form get pulled back into SC2, there will be quite a lot of new cool shit. |
| 20:49.51 | JademusSreg | A1, standard AI scripts are in TriggerLibs like most other galaxy stuff. |
| 20:50.55 | JademusSreg | And since the files can be overridden like most others, I've got an AI test map for tinkering. |
| 20:51.19 | A1win | what do they do different from just scripting it in the traditional way? |
| 20:51.51 | JademusSreg | Ah, well, that'll take a few minutes of explanation. One moment. |
| 20:51.58 | A1win | :x |
| 20:52.49 | IskatuMesk | hi |
| 20:52.56 | IskatuMesk | so many conversions to keep track of |
| 20:53.12 | phil | oh and arcane - here's the not-so refined final product of my jump: |
| 20:53.13 | phil | http://i.gyazo.com/0ca92b3323444d506f15537cd7ed02c7.gif |
| 20:53.30 | IskatuMesk | most of my maps are not that dark because the lighting between units and terrain in sc2 looks really out of sync when it's dark |
| 20:53.33 | IskatuMesk | maybe when I recolor all of them |
| 20:53.34 | A1win | flea jump |
| 20:53.40 | phil | flea? |
| 20:53.54 | JademusSreg | AI scripts have a different entry point, and run from a mostly separate region of the galaxy standard library. The main map code enters with MapScript, which in turn accesses natives and some lib scripts, natives covers all game data constants and so forth. |
| 20:54.01 | A1win | it's a small bug that... jumps |
| 20:54.07 | tuord | be nice |
| 20:54.13 | phil | haha |
| 20:54.14 | phil | gotcha |
| 20:56.58 | JademusSreg | AI enters through the Computer script, though this is configured in GameData.xml AI field. Each AI runs its own separate instance, interestingly, which is one of the few places the static keyword makes much difference and the only place in standard galaxy which has made use of funcref, but that's trivia. Using the racial id as a token, it finds the functions it requires, like AIMain#raceId# |
| 20:56.58 | JademusSreg | (AIMainTerr AIMainProt AIMainZerg) and calls them repeatedly, forever, with each AI update step, as part of the AI finite state machine. |
| 20:57.11 | tuord | Arcane|Work1 what parts did you do in NOTD? |
| 20:57.17 | tuord | please tell me you worked on the banks |
| 20:57.21 | tuord | otherwise not interested |
| 20:59.12 | JademusSreg | Funny thing, galaxy scripts don't actually need to be able to find the native prototypes to work properly, and can compile just fine without access to them, since they are hardcoded into the engine, but whatever. |
| 20:59.40 | JademusSreg | The error checker will likely complain, though. |
| 20:59.56 | JademusSreg | That covers most AI shit, except tactical AI. |
| 21:00.12 | A1win | not quite sure what to take out of that :x |
| 21:00.31 | A1win | ...but what does it mean?!? |
| 21:01.08 | JademusSreg | A more specific question will yield a more specific answer. |
| 21:01.28 | A1win | what can you actually do with the AI scripts? |
| 21:01.49 | JademusSreg | Anything you could do with any other script. |
| 21:02.10 | A1win | so why use them? |
| 21:02.54 | JademusSreg | Because they have hardcoded racial tokenized callbacks to main update functions as part of their purpose as a decision-making finite state machine. |
| 21:03.58 | A1win | can they interact with the map script? |
| 21:04.31 | JademusSreg | Would be bad if they did directly, but there are indirect means of doing so. |
| 21:04.32 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/zhpz |
| 21:04.43 | JademusSreg | Terran.galaxy |
| 21:05.25 | JademusSreg | Note the static functions which conveniently have identifiers which are shared by other scripts but don't conflict. |
| 21:05.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster paynis (c7f7ed29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.247.237.41) |
| 21:05.36 | JademusSreg | Also note every function ending with Terr. |
| 21:05.57 | Arcane|Work1 | JademusSreg: that explains a lot, when I was figuring out the AI, when I was testing, it threw errors about being invalid mainstate when the race didn't match the unit |
| 21:06.02 | paynis | hey guys |
| 21:06.17 | paynis | why can't I click the RESULT button of the RTC poll? |
| 21:06.43 | Dustin_Hendricks | Oh shit, Herostorm needs to add an AFK AI takeover option |
| 21:07.09 | Dustin_Hendricks | If they dont issue any commands for a couple minutes auto take control with AI would be nice |
| 21:07.12 | JademusSreg | It already have leave-takeover, afk takeover would encourage bad player behavior. |
| 21:07.16 | Arcane|Work1 | ^ |
| 21:07.18 | JademusSreg | *has |
| 21:08.05 | Arcane|Work1 | There is 2 new natives for that, one directs the AI to take control, another controls if take control is allowed for a player. |
| 21:08.19 | JademusSreg | Yup. |
| 21:08.21 | paynis | ... anyone? :( |
| 21:08.34 | Arcane|Work1 | paynis: The voting is not complete? |
| 21:08.37 | JademusSreg | payn, did you enable javascript? |
| 21:08.40 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 21:08.47 | Arcane|Work1 | And thus won't be available until it is? |
| 21:09.02 | JademusSreg | hasn't actually seen the page. |
| 21:09.28 | paynis | why the hell would they pull out that tease on me then? |
| 21:09.39 | paynis | it would be 100% doable to let us monitor the -current- results of the poll |
| 21:11.33 | A1win | why would they want that |
| 21:11.41 | paynis | why would they not? |
| 21:11.55 | A1win | easier to manipulate results |
| 21:12.04 | paynis | according to the comments on the poll's page, it seems like StarParty is in for being part of the Top 3, but I ain't sure |
| 21:12.32 | A1win | it's only a week anyway |
| 21:13.05 | paynis | on the 15th we get the Top 5, and then Blizzard waits a week to release the Top 3? |
| 21:13.32 | Arcane|Work1 | Ermm, there is only a top 5 |
| 21:13.42 | Arcane|Work1 | Blizzard extended the prize pool to have a top 5 |
| 21:14.02 | JademusSreg | considers how best to parameterize AI as data. |
| 21:15.04 | paynis | are you serious, Arcane? |
| 21:15.21 | paynis | that sounds wrong on many levels |
| 21:15.26 | JademusSreg | Woo, love me some tortuous tension. |
| 21:15.40 | A1win | 4th and 5th just gets some vanity thing, was it arcade icon or something |
| 21:15.41 | JademusSreg | Not mine, of course. |
| 21:15.49 | paynis | mostly because the submission contract precisely stated the Top 3 prizes |
| 21:16.06 | paynis | where was that announced? |
| 21:16.18 | A1win | on battle.net :P |
| 21:16.26 | A1win | in some news post some time ago |
| 21:17.51 | paynis | foudn nothing on b.net |
| 21:18.22 | Arcane|Work1 | http://us.battle.net/arcade/en/blog/14070047/rock-the-cabinet-announcing-new-rock-on-bonus-arcade-assets-5-6-2014 |
| 21:18.48 | Arcane|Work1 | That was the additions to the original prizes |
| 21:20.16 | Arcane|Work1 | JademusSreg: what do you want to parametrize for AI data? |
| 21:22.06 | JademusSreg | Parameterizing AI for use in data structures would, among other things, allow me to create a data-based way of configuring AIs. |
| 21:23.32 | Arcane|Work1 | I'm curious, beyond just setting the AI difficulty level and using validators for said difficulties, along with tactical AI and Cooldowns, what else do you need? |
| 21:23.34 | JademusSreg | People shouldn't need to script or use that -awful- AI module. |
| 21:23.48 | JademusSreg | Arc, literally everything. |
| 21:24.33 | Arcane|Work1 | So much useful info, also, how is the AI module awful? Certainly seems nice to preconfigure AI waves and their creation/running, without having to know the script. |
| 21:25.16 | Arcane|Work1 | So, what else do we need from the AI? |
| 21:25.30 | JademusSreg | Gross limitations and narrow purpose. I'd be awfully surprised if anyone made a mlee-capable AI with that module. |
| 21:25.48 | JademusSreg | *melee |
| 21:25.52 | Arcane|Work1 | It isn't mean to be used to do full blown AI, it is used for doing waves and assault patterns |
| 21:26.13 | JademusSreg | Precisely. And the script it generates is awful. |
| 21:26.37 | Arcane|Work1 | So you can easily say "Run waves 1-10" and then halfway through say "Use this other personaility, and do its waves 5-10" |
| 21:27.12 | Arcane|Work1 | JademusSreg, you should know by now, awful but readable, and parseable >>>> efficient and nice looking. |
| 21:27.32 | JademusSreg | Psh, I prefer both. |
| 21:27.39 | IskatuMesk | the ai module is kind of useless when I was already familiar with attack wave triggers... since it doesn't have access to the melee functions, I don't even know why they made it to begin with |
| 21:28.11 | IskatuMesk | if it had the melee functions it would be handy in some cases |
| 21:28.37 | Arcane|Work1 | Because it can make certain things way easier, like selecting which units to use for each wave for each difficulty. Or more importantly, reusing waves, since you can setup wave 1, then have wave 2 run a bunch of stuff and then in the middle say "run wave 1" |
| 21:28.41 | JademusSreg | A sufficiently generic script framework and data-based means of defining its content, that'll please me. |
| 21:28.45 | IskatuMesk | since the campaign AI base can basically only *do* attack waves properly |
| 21:29.02 | JademusSreg | So I'm parameterizing AI for the purpose of defining data structures. |
| 21:29.20 | IskatuMesk | I don't know what jade is doing though, it sounds like !!science!! of the dwarfy kind |
| 21:29.28 | Arcane|Work1 | And what are storing in this structures, that are not already defined for you? |
| 21:29.32 | JademusSreg | And it's for your benefit, Mesk. =D |
| 21:29.49 | IskatuMesk | so it is definitely !!science!! |
| 21:30.00 | IskatuMesk | but how does data come into it? |
| 21:30.04 | Arcane|Work1 | Is this the AI controlling ability usage, is this AI controlling attack patterns and tactics, is this AI for infomation awareness, or AI for macro components? |
| 21:30.21 | JademusSreg | Give ya a way of making your melee AI personalities without being forced to script them. |
| 21:30.33 | IskatuMesk | I know how to script them though |
| 21:30.36 | JademusSreg | Arc, literally everything. |
| 21:30.42 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:30.48 | JademusSreg | But mostly the broader strokes. |
| 21:30.50 | Arcane|Work1 | IskatuMesk: Most of the tactical AI functions as well as other stuff were later made into data versions. |
| 21:30.54 | IskatuMesk | I mean, the build order stuff I can script |
| 21:31.06 | JademusSreg | Macro, strategy, AI wave (not attackwave) coordination. |
| 21:31.08 | IskatuMesk | yeah and they became hugely more confusing... I cannot figure out the data tactical stuff |
| 21:31.27 | Arcane|Work1 | Welp, that all can be done with Tactical AI with an insane number of validators |
| 21:31.33 | Dustin_Hendricks | <JademusSreg> It already have leave-takeover, afk takeover would encourage bad player behavior. <- I believe it would help with AFK Takeover casue right now if someone wants to grief they jsut sit back and afk to reduce exp gain |
| 21:31.45 | IskatuMesk | at least with the galaxy I kind of sort of know what stuff does judging by how its named, the tactical AI stuff being split up into a bunch of different tabs makes understanding them more troublesome |
| 21:32.09 | Dustin_Hendricks | At least with an AFK system, you get less problems with that, and even if not agaisnt griefers, Ive had plenty of games where a person afks forever and we lose |
| 21:32.18 | IskatuMesk | and the build order thing is totally trival in galaxy |
| 21:32.19 | JademusSreg | That's just silly, Arc. Hurry up and read the AI scripts, don't cling to what is merely convenient by virtue of it already being known. |
| 21:32.35 | Arcane|Work1 | You said you didn't want scripts at all |
| 21:32.46 | JademusSreg | Naw. |
| 21:32.54 | JademusSreg | I said people shouldn't have to script. |
| 21:33.18 | JademusSreg | Same way people shouldn't need to touch a command line being the motive which drives one to create a GUI. |
| 21:33.45 | Arcane|Work1 | In which case, it is simple imo, create a bunch of dummy units, and assign them tactical AI functions, each unit representing a function. |
| 21:33.46 | IskatuMesk | my confusion is intensifying 42 fold |
| 21:33.53 | JademusSreg | You thought I meant -I- shouldn't need to script? Haha |
| 21:34.12 | JademusSreg | Arc, now you're being deliberately silly, haha. |
| 21:34.33 | Arcane|Work1 | Well, you want a data only front end to AI, is this a correct understanding? |
| 21:34.46 | JademusSreg | Data-based in the sense of its interface, which is to say configured through the data editor. |
| 21:35.06 | JademusSreg | UserType ahoy. |
| 21:35.34 | Arcane|Work1 | Welp, the only parts of the data editor that interface/call trigger script is units tactical AI field. Now with User Types, you can specify trigger function names. |
| 21:35.41 | Arcane|Work1 | But not sure how that avoids the user scripting |
| 21:36.09 | Arcane|Work1 | Since User Types have meaning only within other user types or when recalled via scripting, at least to my knowledge. |
| 21:36.22 | JademusSreg | Tactical AI is least among my purposes here. |
| 21:36.43 | JademusSreg | Put it this way. |
| 21:40.36 | JademusSreg | I am parameterizing the melee AI scripts to define corresponding data structures. Then I create new UserType entries designed according to those data structures. I then write generic AI scripts, effectively the scripts with all the parameters abstracted out as those data structures. That way, users of this system (like Mesk) could just add unit types and set some flags and stuff from a user |
| 21:40.36 | JademusSreg | data instance, and have it work in game. |
| 21:41.31 | JademusSreg | The same way SC2/Herostorm is predominantly data-driven programming, so too should the AIs operate. |
| 21:43.35 | paynis | http://us.battle.net/arcade/en/blog/14070047/rock-the-cabinet-announcing-new-rock-on-bonus-arcade-assets-5-6-2014 I like how most of their perks for first prize will be useless if StarParty wins it |
| 21:43.55 | paynis | I hope they don't discriminate SP just for that so that they ensure themselves to show off some art |
| 21:43.59 | Arcane|Work1 | So... if I understand correctly, you are placing a data wrapper around the parameters off all melee scripts, replacing their arguments with function calls to retrieve the same fields but from a User Type instance. |
| 21:44.14 | JademusSreg | Arc, that, except not. |
| 21:44.47 | Arcane|Work1 | Maybe because I have not looked at the melee scripts, I'm not understanding |
| 21:44.53 | JademusSreg | =\ |
| 21:45.23 | JademusSreg | Doesn't seem a little silly to attempt discussing something without knowledge of the subject? =D |
| 21:45.26 | Arcane|Work1 | Are we referring to the various build order scripts, dictating how the melee AI performs? |
| 21:45.35 | Arcane|Work1 | I have general knowledge, but not specifics |
| 21:45.39 | JademusSreg | Partly. |
| 21:45.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Charys (6cf88320@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.248.131.32) |
| 21:46.57 | Arcane|Work1 | Because, if I'm not terribly mistaken, a melee AI, currently, is a combination of general behavior (mining, expanding, etc.) merged with build order scripts that alter how the Ai reacts to certain events, and the thresholds for certain actions (when to build, when to retreat, etc.) |
| 21:48.54 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 21:49.25 | paynis | Who voted for SP here? =D |
| 21:49.32 | JademusSreg | SP? |
| 21:49.36 | JademusSreg | Wats that? |
| 21:49.38 | Arcane|Work1 | What I'm hearing is you wan the user to, instead of going and writing out the script for build orders, attack waves and what not, instead just creates an instance of various User Types, and the game parses those to then construct said scripts or use the values within for the AI natives. |
| 21:49.41 | paynis | StarParty |
| 21:49.52 | paynis | I'm wondering what are people's projections on the winners of the RTC contest |
| 21:50.21 | Arcane|Work1 | Also, paynis, none of the prizes are useless |
| 21:50.48 | Arcane|Work1 | You can just as easily take your existing work and get blizzard to complete do a workover of it, polishing it. |
| 21:50.49 | paynis | SP already has its own custom arts (soundtracks and loading screen) |
| 21:50.55 | JademusSreg | Sounds familiar, remember playing it a long time ago. |
| 21:51.22 | Arcane|Work1 | Getting a professional for contract work for such assets is NOT cheap. |
| 21:51.24 | paynis | a long time ago? Can't be that long |
| 21:51.34 | paynis | how much would it cost? :o |
| 21:51.49 | paynis | I'd be curious to see in what way they would improve SP :) |
| 21:51.52 | JademusSreg | Either it was a long time ago, or never, can't remember which. |
| 21:52.07 | JademusSreg | Also, don't much care either way. |
| 21:52.12 | Arcane|Work1 | A pro, aka someone who is experienced, multi year with all the tools, is probably 25+/hr |
| 21:52.36 | Arcane|Work1 | So getting a week of work out of a Blizzard person is easily worth a grand or 2 |
| 21:52.40 | Arcane|Work1 | if not more |
| 21:52.57 | paynis | ah |
| 21:53.00 | JademusSreg | Damn Adobe and its subscription model, haha. |
| 21:53.01 | Arcane|Work1 | And that's just for the art assets, sounds same deal. The first prize is probably worth, all told, about 15 grand or more. |
| 21:53.30 | paynis | oh well, I g2g... nice chatting with yall. Cya! :) |
| 21:53.35 | Arcane|Work1 | Peace |
| 21:53.39 | paynis | interesting clarifications there, arc :) |
| 21:54.32 | Arcane|Work1 | I swear people routinely underestimate how much that stuff costs. People routinely ask for Blizzard to make a full length cinematic, ignoring the fact that those 3 minute trailers probably cost million+ |
| 21:54.45 | IskatuMesk | yeah assets are stupidly overpriced |
| 21:54.48 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:55.01 | IskatuMesk | all of the outsourcing and oversaturation and clueless project leads |
| 21:55.12 | IskatuMesk | looking at turbosquid is very lol-worthy |
| 21:55.23 | Arcane|Work1 | IskatuMesk: that plus doing it WELL is pricey as hell |
| 21:55.54 | IskatuMesk | most people who can do assets well can do them very fast, but charge a premium just because they can |
| 21:56.04 | IskatuMesk | just like the movie industry |
| 21:56.18 | Arcane|Work1 | Ermm... yes? Because they CAN do it fast. Good Fast Cheap, choose 2 |
| 21:56.20 | IskatuMesk | so long as people are willing to pay inflated prices they'll keep charging it |
| 21:56.31 | IskatuMesk | well you have a lot of options if you know where to look |
| 21:56.44 | IskatuMesk | there's an amazing amount of really good artists out there that don't fly under a logo and charge insane amounts |
| 21:56.50 | Arcane|Work1 | It is not inflated much, if going with someone cheaper takes longer, and thus costs you sales, or ends up costing you just as much if they bill by the hour. |
| 21:57.14 | IskatuMesk | if I was a project lead I wouldn't get someone who charges by the hour for starters |
| 21:57.19 | IskatuMesk | because that is just a sink waiting to leak |
| 21:57.23 | Arcane|Work1 | 400/hr seems expensive, until you find out the guy charing 50/hr takes 10x longer. |
| 21:57.47 | IskatuMesk | and generally projects that take more time will be more polished |
| 21:57.58 | IskatuMesk | but polish and end result matters more to me than raw revenue so :3 |
| 21:58.03 | IskatuMesk | my business plan doesn't work in gaming |
| 21:58.12 | Arcane|Work1 | Yes, but you have to decide if that polish is worth the opportunity cost |
| 21:58.19 | Arcane|Work1 | Correct, something most gamers miss |
| 21:58.25 | Arcane|Work1 | They want polish, but they will NOT pay for it |
| 21:58.34 | IskatuMesk | to me, polish means more than everything |
| 21:58.35 | Arcane|Work1 | Thus they get rehashed games, and wonder why |
| 21:58.52 | Arcane|Work1 | Software in generall is massively underpriced |
| 21:58.57 | IskatuMesk | I haven't seen a game I consider polished since like... the playstation 2 |
| 21:59.16 | Arcane|Work1 | Yes, and back then, they paid 80+ for a title, which would be over 100 today |
| 21:59.18 | IskatuMesk | because that's when the rehashing et all became super popular |
| 21:59.20 | IskatuMesk | yep |
| 21:59.29 | IskatuMesk | but you got your moneys worth in a lot of times |
| 21:59.31 | Arcane|Work1 | You get what you pay for. |
| 21:59.41 | IskatuMesk | perfect dark? at 300+ game hours, yeah, that $60 was worth it |
| 21:59.51 | Arcane|Work1 | People don't wnat to pay anymore, so they get less and less as inflation slowly eats the quality away. |
| 22:00.46 | IskatuMesk | hello insane lag |
| 22:00.48 | IskatuMesk | how are you today |
| 22:00.54 | Arcane|Work1 | Once heard a story about an interview of software dev working for a major software company, he was asked why software so buggy/unstable. He replied that, to have perfectly stable software, it would take 2-3x longer and cost anywhere from 10-100x more |
| 22:01.07 | IskatuMesk | yeah |
| 22:01.12 | IskatuMesk | developers always buy the cheapestr |
| 22:01.35 | IskatuMesk | like I said, the money is in the marketing and the first sales |
| 22:01.40 | IskatuMesk | that's all that really matters to most people |
| 22:01.57 | IskatuMesk | and hell, 90% of the current generation doesn't even see bugs right in front of them |
| 22:03.37 | JademusSreg | Editor crashed. =D |
| 22:03.42 | JademusSreg | What good timing. |
| 22:03.58 | IskatuMesk | I have that effect |
| 22:07.36 | Dustin_Hendricks | Im excited to start making Heroes maps |
| 22:08.54 | IskatuMesk | meh. I am at an impass. I don't really know how to proceed with work on the campaign. I could continue to convert graphics, but until I have any shred of an idea how to do data, I am totally at the mercy of someone else to do the actual hard work. |
| 22:09.13 | IskatuMesk | the fan noise is too high to do any voice acting. Too stressed out to try to figure out any of the major complex things. |
| 22:09.53 | IskatuMesk | I could keep doing terrain, but I can't progress on most maps until I have a lot of custom doodad models, and I don't know how to quickly sort out a ripped game's assets for useful material. |
| 22:12.17 | IskatuMesk | I should probably just focus on graphics since it's a fairly braindead thing to set up base scenes I can do details on at a later point. |
| 22:15.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Teratron (563a22a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.58.34.166) |
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| 22:33.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster IcE^ (ice@skalman.tech.dreamhack.se) |
| 22:34.23 | JademusSreg | Didn't lose anything in the crash, just amusing. |
| 22:34.25 | JademusSreg | brb |
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| 22:36.06 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+oo Kaelten Torhal] by sinisalo.freenode.net |
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| 22:50.58 | Dustin_Hendricks | Grim when the fuck are you releasing your physics engine for WC3! |
| 22:57.30 | JademusSreg | Hhaaha |
| 22:57.43 | JademusSreg | I remember it; had fun with negative mass values. |
| 22:58.56 | Bounty | I think you need to address 001 or 002 Dustin. |
| 23:01.58 | Dustin_Hendricks | grim001, grim002 PING |
| 23:02.34 | Dustin_Hendricks | Hehe I've been giving him shit for not releasing it for forever now, jerk would always talk about it at WC3 and I'd play his demo map |
| 23:02.51 | Arcane|Work1 | :P |
| 23:03.32 | JademusSreg | wonders if he still has a copy. |
| 23:06.01 | JademusSreg | Apparently not. |
| 23:06.07 | JademusSreg | But I remember it well. |
| 23:06.08 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 23:08.12 | Dustin_Hendricks | :D |
| 23:08.18 | Arcane|Work1 | :D |
| 23:15.11 | IskatuMesk | :D |
| 23:28.45 | IskatuMesk | I encountered a new bug with the art tools, although reproducing it would require some special tomfoolery |
| 23:29.30 | IskatuMesk | if you remove some texture that max is reading and it throws you the error about it, but you reload, it will assign the texture but it won't preview properly. This also translates to the art tools, who then proceeds to fuck up the sc2 cache as well |
| 23:29.45 | IskatuMesk | and you can't get the new assigned texture to load |
| 23:31.24 | IskatuMesk | And this bug persist through reloading. Alright. |
| 23:31.53 | Teratron | guys |
| 23:32.14 | Teratron | can i make multiple clipboard entries in sc2 editor |
| 23:32.25 | Teratron | tried some windows clipboard manager, doesn't look like it'll work |
| 23:32.31 | Teratron | trying marco keys |
| 23:32.47 | JademusSreg | Polo =D |
| 23:33.23 | Teratron | works with SC2 editor |
| 23:33.24 | Teratron | okay |
| 23:33.51 | Teratron | can't find anything on that word |
| 23:34.42 | Teratron | or i can fiddle with replace/find |
| 23:34.58 | Teratron | i have like 8 things i need to copy a lot, over and over |
| 23:37.44 | JademusSreg | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRY_principle |
| 23:38.38 | Bounty | lol |
| 23:40.28 | phil | haha |
| 23:41.06 | phil | I would love to have a map making house - similar to south korea's sc2 gaming houses |
| 23:41.13 | Teratron | because it's so repetetive and disorienting it's such a pain the butt |
| 23:41.26 | JademusSreg | That would, I must admit, be rather badass. |
| 23:41.53 | Bounty | I could see that being a hit TV show phil, the dramaz |
| 23:41.57 | IskatuMesk | https://i.imgur.com/6SolkOM.png https://i.imgur.com/WdYeyiv.png |
| 23:42.14 | phil | haha - maybe for the intensely nerdy crowd |
| 23:42.19 | JademusSreg | Stew, needs moar abstraction. |
| 23:42.30 | phil | holy damn skatu |
| 23:42.50 | phil | how do I set myself as away |
| 23:42.56 | IskatuMesk | may as well port the "simple" things |
| 23:43.23 | JademusSreg | Try /nick FreshPrinceOfPhilly_away |
| 23:44.22 | JademusSreg | Mesk, nice jackalopes. =D |
| 23:44.41 | Teratron | is it possible to convert local variable to global without using editor ui sync link ? |
| 23:45.57 | Teratron | lol @ news - resolution filled to arrest Lois Lerner |
| 23:46.16 | Teratron | lois lerner = IRS boss |
| 23:46.30 | IskatuMesk | stuf like the shiny armor these guys have should have an environment map |
| 23:46.43 | IskatuMesk | but I'll worrya bout that another day |
| 23:46.52 | IskatuMesk | only doing basic setup - textures and animations |
