| 00:34.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster JademusSreg (~jademus.s@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 00:37.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster maltenp (~maltenp@c-31e170d5.09-37-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 00:39.55 | Bounty | I swear, I get about 2-3 ideas per sip of alcohol |
| 00:40.11 | Bounty | peow |
| 01:18.05 | ArcanePariah | just 2-3 idea per sip Bounty ? |
| 01:18.13 | Bounty | Typically yeah |
| 01:18.14 | ArcanePariah | So a keg will leave you bursting yes? |
| 01:18.24 | ArcanePariah | (Assuming you are still conscious) |
| 01:18.25 | Bounty | I don't drink beer |
| 01:18.33 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:18.40 | ArcanePariah | Ok, keg of $AlcoholicBeverageHere |
| 01:19.01 | Bounty | I have limited my use to a pint of vodka per session |
| 01:19.25 | Bounty | So I don't go overboard and turn into the fuhrer |
| 01:19.28 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:19.47 | ArcanePariah | Ahahah |
| 01:20.22 | Bounty | Took me a few years to learn I always become THAT dude |
| 01:20.24 | Bounty | haha |
| 01:20.38 | Bounty | So I am sticking to being buzzed |
| 01:20.56 | ArcanePariah | Ah, good idea |
| 01:21.14 | Bounty | Indeed, you can still work while buzzed |
| 01:21.25 | Bounty | and come up with good ideas |
| 01:21.42 | Bounty | Drunk... you might come up with some good ideas but you will forget them nor will you be able to implement them |
| 01:24.07 | ArcanePariah | True... sometimes I wonder what the advantage would be in placing a highly creative person under a altered state of mind and have another person/entity record their ideas |
| 01:24.22 | Bounty | It would be glorious |
| 01:24.30 | Bounty | With me at least |
| 01:24.34 | ArcanePariah | Funny enough that was a Star Wars plot |
| 01:24.43 | Bounty | I typically don't write stuff down, I have started to though |
| 01:25.07 | Bounty | Ironically |
| 01:25.10 | ArcanePariah | A somewhat crazy guy invented weapon systems while dreaming, so his imperial handlers recorded his rantings during his sleep |
| 01:25.22 | JademusSreg | Don't worry, I've got logs of everything. |
| 01:25.32 | ArcanePariah | Mind you, dreaming is the ultimate altered state of mind |
| 01:25.37 | Bounty | The myth is that being left handed = creative but the problem is that being left handed has also been linked to shitty memory |
| 01:25.39 | Bounty | Not making that up |
| 01:25.41 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:25.50 | JademusSreg | Dreaming + nicotine. |
| 01:26.19 | Bounty | I can tell you, there is no creative use for my dreams |
| 01:26.22 | ArcanePariah | I would say no drug will really enhance it, since your mind already unleashes rather potent stuff into your brain during dreams |
| 01:26.26 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:26.45 | ArcanePariah | Our basic neurochemicals are just as potent as any powerful drug |
| 01:26.48 | Bounty | Alcohol is good for people who have issues with letting go |
| 01:27.05 | Bounty | in moderation of course |
| 01:27.05 | JademusSreg | Apply a nicotine patch before sleep. |
| 01:27.08 | ArcanePariah | Yes, because it interferes with high order reasoning, long term thinking, etc. |
| 01:27.21 | Bounty | Drunk yes? |
| 01:27.23 | Bounty | Buzzed no |
| 01:27.27 | ArcanePariah | So you make judgements based mostly on short term consequences |
| 01:27.35 | Bounty | I am the same person buzzed, only I give less of a fuck |
| 01:27.39 | ArcanePariah | Well Buzzed will impair abstract reasoning |
| 01:27.53 | Bounty | I think it has merit for creativity though |
| 01:27.58 | ArcanePariah | Well yes, which means you will make decisions that may have long term implications, but you will not consider them |
| 01:28.01 | Bounty | Buzzed, not drunk |
| 01:28.03 | Bounty | Drunk is useless |
| 01:28.05 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:28.10 | JademusSreg | Frontal lobe impairment resulting in disinhibition. |
| 01:28.13 | Bounty | unless you can still operate a keyboard or pen and write that shit down |
| 01:28.15 | ArcanePariah | Well, because it now interferes with memory operation |
| 01:28.22 | ArcanePariah | and basic motor control |
| 01:28.28 | ArcanePariah | and sensory perception |
| 01:28.44 | Bounty | I don't see it that way (even though its probably true) |
| 01:28.46 | ArcanePariah | So it may unlock your mind, but in a way, locks it down |
| 01:28.55 | Bounty | I see it as "ah, listen to some music and let the ideas flow) |
| 01:29.01 | Bounty | replace that ) with a " |
| 01:29.08 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 01:29.12 | Bounty | There a saying ArcanePariah |
| 01:29.17 | JademusSreg | But yes, nicotine enhances dream lucidity. Quite intense. |
| 01:29.24 | Bounty | Alcohol for concept, caffeine for execution |
| 01:29.28 | Bounty | :) |
| 01:29.44 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, I don't see that as an enhancement of the dream, just the conscious mind capability of parsing it |
| 01:29.49 | Bounty | Is that true JademusSreg? |
| 01:29.55 | Bounty | You sound like you've done that before |
| 01:29.57 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:30.18 | Bounty | I know melatonin has given me some crazy dreams |
| 01:30.19 | ArcanePariah | I would imagine it is because a nicotine patch would be a long term slow release of a stimulant |
| 01:30.46 | Bounty | You know what drug I have always wanted to do? |
| 01:30.49 | Bounty | DMT lol |
| 01:30.54 | ArcanePariah | Entirely depends on the individual. For me it would probably have little or no effect |
| 01:31.00 | Bounty | I would probably lose my shit, but it sounds interesting |
| 01:31.04 | Bounty | life changing |
| 01:31.30 | ArcanePariah | Most stimulants would have little effect on me, mind you |
| 01:31.37 | JademusSreg | Dreams are interpretations of practically-random synaptic activity, so the parsing is the thing. |
| 01:31.50 | ArcanePariah | (I'm ADHD, so already taking potent stims as is...) |
| 01:31.56 | Bounty | DMT is supposedly the chemical that is produced when you enter REM sleep |
| 01:32.02 | Bounty | So taking it while awake... |
| 01:32.21 | ArcanePariah | I imagine it would cause some rather bizzare neurochemical activity |
| 01:32.30 | Bounty | actually |
| 01:32.46 | Bounty | It transports you to the dream world while awake |
| 01:32.49 | Bounty | aka |
| 01:32.56 | Bounty | hardcore hallucination |
| 01:33.08 | JademusSreg | Psychedelics are uncomfortable, don't recommend it. |
| 01:33.15 | Bounty | Never done any |
| 01:33.18 | Bounty | but |
| 01:33.20 | ArcanePariah | Yes, which would be very dangerous. Therte is a reason our bodies intentionally disable motor control during sleep |
| 01:33.31 | Bounty | DMT is different from what I've read |
| 01:33.50 | ArcanePariah | As in, the cerebellum is chemically detached from the body, leaviong only autonomous systems functioning during sleep |
| 01:34.10 | Bounty | They did a scientific study on DMT actually |
| 01:34.14 | Bounty | The shit people saw.... |
| 01:34.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (a2e889dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.232.137.220) |
| 01:34.32 | Bounty | Ironically everyone seemed to travel through the universe and speak with some sort of alien race |
| 01:34.36 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:34.45 | Bounty | Not saying thats real, but it is interesting everyone reports the same thing |
| 01:34.48 | ArcanePariah | Well yes, they have also explained why people see God when dying |
| 01:35.04 | Bounty | Its supposedly related to DMT arcanepariah |
| 01:35.12 | ArcanePariah | Namely, when near death, your mind overproduces a variety of psychtropic stuff |
| 01:35.13 | MoonEater | lolz and bounty wants to teach them about communism |
| 01:35.23 | Bounty | Supposedly, your brain releases tons of DMT when you're about to die |
| 01:35.37 | Bounty | Which is why people who take DMT report similar things as those who have near death experiences |
| 01:35.44 | ArcanePariah | Probably Bounty, I have not read which specific neurotransmitter was released in the trauma |
| 01:35.58 | Bounty | Its freaky stuff |
| 01:35.59 | JademusSreg | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:36.06 | Bounty | All living things have a gland that produces DMT |
| 01:36.09 | Bounty | in their brains |
| 01:36.26 | Bounty | DXM JademusSreg |
| 01:36.33 | Bounty | Twas my drug of choice back in high school |
| 01:36.49 | pirate | http://imgur.com/RDjyiRY |
| 01:36.58 | pirate | jade and arcane were right |
| 01:37.01 | Bounty | Drank 2 bottles of robotussin and watched the Lord of the Rings... thought I had the ring and they after me |
| 01:37.11 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:37.31 | pirate | no cure for following the cursor but following a unit works |
| 01:37.34 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 01:37.51 | Bounty | I still don't know why that shit is OTC JademusSreg |
| 01:37.56 | Bounty | That was intense |
| 01:37.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 01:38.10 | pirate | reverse engineered a turret demo map |
| 01:38.44 | pirate | now the next question is whether or not to use a hex grid or a no grid at all |
| 01:38.47 | Bounty | Ironically though JademusSreg |
| 01:38.54 | Bounty | DXM has been linked to memory loss |
| 01:38.56 | Bounty | So... |
| 01:39.01 | Bounty | Go figure |
| 01:39.03 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:39.12 | JademusSreg | Worse. |
| 01:39.20 | ArcanePariah | pirate, you may want to examine the Site Op Basic |
| 01:39.20 | MoonEater | jade, ur rock the cabnet comment was funny |
| 01:39.22 | MoonEater | XD |
| 01:39.28 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 01:39.32 | pirate | hm? thats my example of it working |
| 01:39.54 | Bounty | I remember they discovered something with legions on the brain JademusSreg |
| 01:39.55 | Bounty | right? |
| 01:39.58 | Bounty | in rats |
| 01:40.37 | JademusSreg | I'm refering to brain cell destruction, so sure. |
| 01:41.31 | Bounty | that as well |
| 01:41.47 | MoonEater | i always wondered why blizzard doesnt seem to like the map maker comunity |
| 01:41.54 | MoonEater | finaly realized why |
| 01:42.05 | Bounty | I did not know that when I went on my binge for like 3 years though lol |
| 01:42.57 | Bounty | I blame pot for being so lame honestly |
| 01:43.09 | ArcanePariah | MoonEater, there are a number of aspects that can come into play for such a mentality |
| 01:43.29 | Bounty | "So I smoke this and I sit there for 4 hours debating on whether or not I should get up and go to the bathroom?" |
| 01:43.36 | Bounty | Describes my experience with pot |
| 01:43.44 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:43.55 | MoonEater | well im looking at the comments from rock the cabnet and how some mapsters r talking to reps and such |
| 01:44.13 | Bounty | reps? |
| 01:44.18 | ArcanePariah | Yes, the hostility is quite apparent, its GIFT in action |
| 01:44.31 | Bounty | what are you guys talking about |
| 01:45.26 | JademusSreg | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12701118/blizzard-arcade-rock-the-cabinet-contest-1-30-2014#comments |
| 01:45.37 | MoonEater | PyroCopter like him |
| 01:45.49 | MoonEater | but its not just him, hes the most agressive i bet |
| 01:48.07 | MoonEater | its like many map makers feel like they are entitled to things |
| 01:48.11 | MoonEater | like better interfaces |
| 01:53.13 | JademusSreg | Best response to ridiculous bullshit is ridicule. No point wasting energy on a well-reasoned argument if reason won't persuade, so just mock idiotic positions instead. |
| 01:54.05 | MoonEater | and like dogma, i feel bad for him spending so much time on map making |
| 01:59.01 | Texnical | If a developer feels like they're not getting enough out of StarCraft II's modding system, they should just move off of StarCraft II and start developing in straight C++/C#/language of their choice |
| 01:59.13 | MoonEater | agreed |
| 01:59.16 | JademusSreg | Yep. |
| 01:59.31 | MoonEater | but like so many people here think they are entitled |
| 01:59.42 | Texnical | They can develop a graphics engine and/or physics engine themselves, or they can use one like Horde, OGRE, Irrlicht, Unity, Unreal... the list goes on. |
| 02:00.00 | Texnical | IrrKlang seems like an OK audio library, on that note. |
| 02:00.06 | Texnical | Any experience with it in here? :P |
| 02:00.53 | Texnical | (yes, you can shoot me for grouping Unity and Unreal with OGRE, Irrlicht, and Horde) |
| 02:06.10 | ArcanePariah | Texnical, I agree, but too many of those who would do so are not experience enough to do so. THey know SC2 well, but jumping to doing everything yourself is too hard for most of them probably, not to mention they run head long into everything they took for granted in SC2, they now either must do themself or pay far more ot have done |
| 02:06.40 | Texnical | ArcanePariah, and the experience is well worth it. |
| 02:06.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Nytemare3701 (~Nytemare3@c-67-174-247-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:06.56 | ArcanePariah | Biggest thing being all the assets... have fun getting voice work done, icons drawn, models created, and sounds mastered... and not cost 5 figured + |
| 02:06.58 | Nytemare3701 | Hey everyone! |
| 02:07.21 | Texnical | Oh, those assets we're having a grand ole time with right now. |
| 02:07.39 | Texnical | Doing some small level studio recording for a project. |
| 02:08.07 | Nytemare3701 | How does measurement work in the editor? I need to tile the map with 4x4 objects with no overlap, but I can't find a 4x4 object that is visually 4x4. |
| 02:08.14 | Texnical | There's also public domain repositories out there for smaller solo projects when getting started. |
| 02:08.33 | Nytemare3701 | I'm guessing I may have to import a model that's just a 4x4 square just for this, then replace it later. |
| 02:08.37 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, all of it is doable, I jsut think people who complain about the shortcomings of the sc2 editor don't realize just how much is taken for granted in terms of integration |
| 02:08.39 | Texnical | Plenty of placeholder and example assets for FOSS work |
| 02:09.08 | ArcanePariah | Sure, but you have to find them yourself, which takes time, more then just browsing through the editor :D |
| 02:09.23 | Texnical | Negligible time to the overall development cycle :P |
| 02:09.52 | Texnical | What it comes down to is a shared opinion: if they want to whine and complain, they're going to anyway and they don't have what it takes. :P |
| 02:10.01 | ArcanePariah | Pretty much |
| 02:10.15 | JademusSreg | Complaining about anything at all is a waste of time. |
| 02:10.19 | Texnical | I still say they should try. |
| 02:10.28 | Nytemare3701 | nevermind, I found the grid. |
| 02:10.53 | Texnical | high-fives Nytemare3701 |
| 02:10.58 | ArcanePariah | Texnical, they probably will, but they will forever suffer from believeing they know better |
| 02:11.07 | ArcanePariah | And thus be unwilling to learn |
| 02:11.13 | Texnical | ArcanePariah, maybe in a decade, they will :) |
| 02:11.16 | ArcanePariah | And that will damm them more then anything |
| 02:11.19 | ArcanePariah | LOL |
| 02:11.27 | ArcanePariah | And I though I was patient :D |
| 02:11.36 | Texnical | only if they start now |
| 02:11.37 | Texnical | :P |
| 02:11.48 | ArcanePariah | chuckles |
| 02:11.49 | Texnical | What? A decade ain't that much.. |
| 02:12.11 | ArcanePariah | Sure, only enough time for someone to reinvent C again, poorly |
| 02:12.15 | ArcanePariah | :P |
| 02:12.27 | Texnical | See? Aint that much. |
| 02:12.32 | ArcanePariah | Ahaahaha |
| 02:12.51 | Texnical | Case in point. :3 :P |
| 02:13.33 | ArcanePariah | In any case, I still fail to see the "limitations" people speak of with the editor, the only real issue I have encountered is the lack of documentation, that's about it |
| 02:13.47 | ArcanePariah | (Mind you, that can be a pretty big limitation) |
| 02:14.04 | Bounty | There are limitations but they are usually very minor and can be fixed if brought to Blizzard attention |
| 02:14.44 | Texnical | Say, did we ever get a 'new'/'malloc'/'calloc'? |
| 02:15.14 | ArcanePariah | No, and I doubt we ever will, Blizzard has almost 0 reason to add it, and a long list of reasons to not add it |
| 02:16.04 | ArcanePariah | I highly doubt Blizzard will be interested in people crashing SC2 and them getting blamed for a poor map's memory allocation and subsequent buffer overflows/underflows/etc. |
| 02:16.13 | Texnical | ;D |
| 02:16.25 | JademusSreg | I keep an eye on galaxy script. Only thing added to the API in the last patch was UI frame/dialog control handle strings. |
| 02:17.03 | ArcanePariah | Let's be honest, regular programmers struggle with that, and mapmakers often have little or no software background. I would say only 1/4 of the people in this channel have software backgrounds |
| 02:17.34 | ArcanePariah | And each of us only to varying degrees |
| 02:22.03 | ArcanePariah | One thing I somewhat still do not understand, why do people not make more mods and make them public, as to spare others the need to do everything from scratch? |
| 02:22.23 | ArcanePariah | Is it a consequence/holdover of the old limits on published maps/mods? |
| 02:23.45 | ArcanePariah | Like... Do people really care about protecting their data work (arguably the hardest but most rewarding aspect of mapmaking functionality)? |
| 02:24.05 | JademusSreg | Probably the concept of intellectual property causing people to feel possessive. |
| 02:24.44 | ArcanePariah | Uggh... sounds like prisoners dilemena to me again |
| 02:25.00 | ArcanePariah | No one wants to share since the persons who don't share gain the most |
| 02:25.18 | Nytemare3701 | New question: I know you can flip a doodad, but can you make a unit model default to being flipped? |
| 02:25.38 | ArcanePariah | I believe so, let me check |
| 02:25.38 | Nytemare3701 | (I want to use a particular model upside down as a unit model) |
| 02:25.50 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 02:26.05 | Nytemare3701 | I only see rotation in the unit options, and in the data I don't see anything for pitch/yaw/etc |
| 02:26.27 | JademusSreg | If you want it done by doodad type, use a Host Site Operation. |
| 02:26.59 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, you will want to use a host site operation, a forward rotation one IIRC |
| 02:27.21 | ArcanePariah | I keep trying to remember which axis a forward vs up rotation controls |
| 02:27.49 | Nytemare3701 | Right now I'm using a unit, since they conform to the grid automatically. |
| 02:28.05 | ArcanePariah | One is for rotating like you were doign sonic the hedgehog, the other is like a bullet spin |
| 02:28.28 | Nytemare3701 | I believe yaw is horizontal spin |
| 02:28.36 | Nytemare3701 | while pitch is forward/backward spin. |
| 02:28.49 | Nytemare3701 | not sure though |
| 02:29.06 | Nytemare3701 | anyway, what's this host site operation business? |
| 02:29.16 | Nytemare3701 | I'm trying to do this without triggers at all, since they are preplaced objects. |
| 02:29.19 | ArcanePariah | If you look at the doodad actor |
| 02:29.27 | Nytemare3701 | (unit, not a doodad) |
| 02:29.36 | ArcanePariah | ok, doesn't matter |
| 02:29.39 | ArcanePariah | look at the actor |
| 02:29.45 | Nytemare3701 | kk |
| 02:30.24 | ArcanePariah | There is a field called "Host Site Operations" |
| 02:30.30 | Nytemare3701 | Ah, I see. |
| 02:31.01 | ArcanePariah | You can specify the host (unit actor) to either hold postion or rotation or place other siteoperations here, they will be automatically applied to the actor every time it is created |
| 02:31.18 | Nytemare3701 | Alright, so now I have to create said operation? |
| 02:31.29 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 02:32.08 | Nytemare3701 | Oh dear, this is a whole new layer of wtf. |
| 02:32.49 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 02:33.22 | ArcanePariah | You will want a Explicit Rotation (Forward) Site Op |
| 02:34.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster sandyravage_ (6c501679@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.80.22.121) |
| 02:34.39 | ArcanePariah | Site Operations are simply actors that modify the visual location of another actor |
| 02:34.46 | JademusSreg | (Oh, and to make shit snap to grid, click, drag, and hold Ctrl.) |
| 02:34.52 | ArcanePariah | They can be used to place stuff almost anywhere |
| 02:35.15 | JademusSreg | (Or NumPad 5) |
| 02:35.27 | ArcanePariah | Some of the basic ones are Attachment (attaches the actor to model attach point) |
| 02:35.53 | ArcanePariah | Local Offset is another, it adjusts the actor position relative to it's current location, XYZ |
| 02:36.46 | sandyravage_ | This modify unit effect will be the death of me |
| 02:37.05 | Nytemare3701 | hmm...it didn't seem to flip it. |
| 02:37.31 | ArcanePariah | So of the Site Ops are quite intersting, one is called Banker (Unit), it controls the banking motion you see on things like Banshees and voids |
| 02:38.03 | ArcanePariah | you controll how much it rotates in flight, what angle change is needed to start the banking and how fast it banks, and how fast it exits the banking |
| 02:38.19 | Bounty | Most positive/catchy song ever? I think so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67aJuKTN72k |
| 02:38.32 | Nytemare3701 | there we go |
| 02:38.33 | Nytemare3701 | got it. |
| 02:39.34 | sandyravage_ | Bounty... |
| 02:39.38 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:39.39 | Bounty | what? |
| 02:39.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 02:40.02 | sandyravage_ | wouldn't go that far, pretty bold claim |
| 02:40.30 | Bounty | I will agree that I may have overhyped the link but I think it might be true >.< |
| 02:40.53 | Nytemare3701 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoxGW8B--O8 |
| 02:41.21 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:41.22 | Nytemare3701 | suddenly random dr mario. |
| 02:41.24 | Bounty | I think I win |
| 02:41.46 | sandyravage_ | ehhh |
| 02:42.08 | sandyravage_ | oh god nytemares is worse |
| 02:42.13 | Nytemare3701 | hahaha |
| 02:42.22 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:42.34 | Nytemare3701 | I have a 10 hour repeat of that that I stick on other people's music playlists. |
| 02:42.34 | Bounty | There is no way anyone could hate the song I linked |
| 02:42.40 | Bounty | I say that with confidence |
| 02:42.41 | sandyravage_ | i dont hate it |
| 02:42.44 | sandyravage_ | its just not my thing |
| 02:42.48 | Bounty | Me either |
| 02:42.50 | Bounty | haha |
| 02:43.00 | sandyravage_ | give me some tequila and maybe |
| 02:43.02 | sandyravage_ | just maybe |
| 02:43.03 | Bounty | Its just catchy and uplifting >.< |
| 02:43.05 | sandyravage_ | ill dig it |
| 02:43.07 | Nytemare3701 | Bounty, it doesn't seem that special. |
| 02:43.18 | Nytemare3701 | one sec, let me find my "fuck yeah, life is awesome" music. |
| 02:43.24 | Bounty | I think sandyravage has a point |
| 02:43.31 | Bounty | Perhaps a few drinks in |
| 02:43.42 | Bounty | Might be what triggers the euphoria |
| 02:44.10 | Nytemare3701 | is there a rating limit on this irc? >.> |
| 02:44.47 | Nytemare3701 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpY3ggKAPIE |
| 02:45.05 | Nytemare3701 | On that note, DaVinci's notebook in general. |
| 02:45.52 | Nytemare3701 | New editor question: is there a way to copy-paste a group of units, but allow it to use new variations on the new paste? |
| 02:47.43 | Nytemare3701 | or alternately, randomize the variations of a set of units |
| 02:47.53 | ArcanePariah | Set of units no, a unit actor yes |
| 02:48.14 | Nytemare3701 | that's not an issue, I'm just trying to copy-paste about 30 of the same unit in a line |
| 02:48.23 | Nytemare3701 | but with a different set of variations on the new line |
| 02:48.36 | Nytemare3701 | so that my copy-paste isn't just shitty tiling. |
| 02:49.10 | Nytemare3701 | Eh, whatever, I'll just do this line like 5 more times for decent variation, then copy past that. |
| 02:50.13 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... I think I need food then start editing the wiki some more |
| 02:50.28 | ArcanePariah | Let me ask, how many here use the wiki much? |
| 02:50.36 | ArcanePariah | And if you do, do you find it helpful or no? |
| 02:50.53 | Bounty | Any film fans here? Have a question |
| 02:50.59 | Nytemare3701 | I haven't used the wiki in a long while, since everything I wanted to read was dead outside links. |
| 02:51.04 | Bounty | Something I have noticed |
| 02:51.24 | Bounty | Someone like Quentin Tarantino has a HUGE advantage over other film makers because he does not have any composers. He does what I do, in that he selects music and builds the scene around it lol |
| 02:51.36 | Bounty | Or is this just something I have noticed? |
| 02:52.15 | Nytemare3701 | It's a definite advantage. Any time a person has more than one talent, they can leverage it better than two people trying to coordinate. |
| 02:52.24 | Nytemare3701 | unless said talent requires full focus. |
| 02:52.27 | ArcanePariah | ^ |
| 02:52.34 | Bounty | Yeah, I cannot design a scene without hearing the music first |
| 02:52.44 | Bounty | Hence why "most" people say that is what I am best at |
| 02:52.45 | Nytemare3701 | (hence why I'm a producer and designer, not a programmer) |
| 02:53.02 | ArcanePariah | I would say James Cameron has a huge advantage in that he builds his movies in his mind, then wait for the tech to exist to then do them, or build the tech himself |
| 02:53.17 | Bounty | What do you guys think is more impressive? |
| 02:53.21 | ArcanePariah | He doesn't try to force them before he can do them the way he wants it done |
| 02:53.24 | Bounty | Music and THEN scene |
| 02:53.33 | Bounty | ore scene and THEN music |
| 02:53.44 | Bounty | or* |
| 02:53.48 | ArcanePariah | Difficult |
| 02:53.55 | Bounty | Indeed |
| 02:53.58 | Nytemare3701 | It entirely depends on what kind of scene. |
| 02:54.01 | ArcanePariah | Music serves as a framework since music is not ambigous |
| 02:54.05 | ArcanePariah | and is very exact |
| 02:54.09 | Nytemare3701 | An action scene benefits greatly from having music beforehand. |
| 02:54.12 | Bounty | Ok so lets take games |
| 02:54.22 | Bounty | What is more difficult |
| 02:54.23 | Nytemare3701 | a drama scene tends to benefit from plot first. |
| 02:54.31 | Bounty | actually |
| 02:54.39 | Bounty | replace the word difficult with impressive |
| 02:54.48 | Bounty | Game and then the music is developed |
| 02:54.48 | Bounty | or |
| 02:54.58 | Bounty | Music is developed and the game is built around it |
| 02:55.12 | Nytemare3701 | Ah, in that case, appropriately accompanying a game with a soundtrack is far more impressive than making a game around a soundtrack. |
| 02:55.19 | Nytemare3701 | Jeremy Soule is a god amongst men. |
| 02:55.31 | Bounty | Lets take it from a developer perspective |
| 02:55.36 | Nytemare3701 | Whereas the guys who made bit-trip runner are interesting, but not that impressive. |
| 02:55.57 | ArcanePariah | I agree with Nytemare3701 in that making music after the fact is harder, because you are trying to build a box after you created the contents |
| 02:56.09 | Bounty | Yeah, you're a spotter |
| 02:56.13 | Bounty | I agree with that |
| 02:56.20 | Bounty | but lets speak from a developers perspective |
| 02:56.48 | ArcanePariah | From a developers perspective, the game first is harder because you are given ambigous design specifications |
| 02:57.09 | ArcanePariah | Better to have the mood defined and thus part of the design spec settled before writing code |
| 02:57.11 | Nytemare3701 | Ok, from a developers perspective, it's 1000x easier to edit music to adapt for development changes than it is to edit a game to account for musical taste. |
| 02:57.30 | Bounty | I will have to side with Nytemare3701 on this |
| 02:57.42 | Bounty | For pure biased purposes |
| 02:57.43 | ArcanePariah | True, Music is relatively freestanding |
| 02:57.46 | Bounty | lol |
| 02:57.53 | ArcanePariah | It is added to the game, but is not the game |
| 02:58.02 | Bounty | I disagree ArcanePariah |
| 02:58.09 | Bounty | Actually no |
| 02:58.23 | Bounty | I don't disagree, because that would imply that I see your opinion as wrong |
| 02:58.25 | ArcanePariah | I speak from an architectural point of view, I can remove all sound file from a game and they game will still function |
| 02:58.26 | Bounty | but |
| 02:58.36 | Bounty | Music first and then game? epic |
| 02:58.42 | ArcanePariah | It may not be a good game, but it still will be a game |
| 02:58.52 | Bounty | I've designed all of my games this way |
| 02:59.09 | Nytemare3701 | SC2 question: Can I hide a specific actor inside the editor only? I don't want this unit getting in the way during design, but they need to be placed during testing. |
| 02:59.15 | Bounty | music, music inspires game, design game, bamf |
| 02:59.18 | Nytemare3701 | (ceiling units) |
| 02:59.26 | ArcanePariah | Yes Nytemare3701, see Editor Flags |
| 02:59.29 | Nytemare3701 | Bounty, that works reasonably well for smaller titles. |
| 02:59.35 | ArcanePariah | or Model (Editor) |
| 02:59.49 | ArcanePariah | for units |
| 03:00.05 | Bounty | What is a larger title? adding a story? |
| 03:00.08 | Bounty | more features? |
| 03:00.59 | Bounty | a "campaign"? |
| 03:01.01 | Nytemare3701 | Bounty, when your game is entirely constrained by a set of musical tracks, you are by necessity limited in scope when developing that game. |
| 03:01.12 | ArcanePariah | You can speicify for Unit Actors the model you see in the terrain editor vs in game |
| 03:01.18 | Nytemare3701 | "That feature isn't represented by the music, so we aren't allowed to make it" |
| 03:01.25 | Nytemare3701 | Got it AP |
| 03:01.27 | Nytemare3701 | thanks :-D |
| 03:01.36 | Bounty | You're limited in scope of settings, nothing more Nytemare3701 |
| 03:01.44 | Bounty | for that setup |
| 03:01.49 | Bounty | Not mechanics |
| 03:01.56 | Nytemare3701 | Not at all. What if you have absolutely no music for a climactic romance scene? |
| 03:02.03 | Nytemare3701 | NO ROMANCE FOR YOU. |
| 03:02.11 | Nytemare3701 | What if you have no action music? |
| 03:02.17 | Nytemare3701 | NO FIGHT SCENE FOR YOU. |
| 03:02.38 | Bounty | Ok so your argument against it is "What if no music existed?" |
| 03:02.40 | Nytemare3701 | The opposite isn't true in development, since your tools to make the game are the same the whole time. |
| 03:02.45 | Bounty | lol |
| 03:03.10 | Nytemare3701 | You were saying that you had a set of music first, then made the game from that. |
| 03:03.15 | ArcanePariah | Well, no music in itself conveys a certain mood or mindset |
| 03:03.19 | Bounty | yeah |
| 03:03.19 | Nytemare3701 | In that case, you can only have as much game as there is music. |
| 03:03.28 | Bounty | in that the music inspired the initial game concept |
| 03:03.32 | Nytemare3701 | The other way around, you can make as much music as you want to fit the game. |
| 03:03.41 | Bounty | There is much more music than there are game genres |
| 03:03.55 | ArcanePariah | I feel like we are having a chicken or the egg disucssion :P |
| 03:04.03 | Bounty | Depends on the quality of the composer IMO |
| 03:04.08 | Nytemare3701 | Ah, but there is far less music than there are individual uses for it in games. |
| 03:04.13 | Bounty | Not all of us can have Hans Zimmer |
| 03:04.16 | Bounty | who is a great spotter |
| 03:04.31 | Nytemare3701 | if that weren't true, then there would be no composers for games. |
| 03:04.43 | Bounty | if what was not true? |
| 03:04.47 | Nytemare3701 | because we would still be using existing music (oh god not more of the damn requiem for a dream) |
| 03:05.44 | Nytemare3701 | Let me put it this way: Mario games. They have a limited toolbox of objects and settings, but they need a fuckload of music to differentiate them. |
| 03:05.59 | Bounty | of course |
| 03:06.36 | Nytemare3701 | You can always add more music as a game grows. You can't just add more game because you have more music. |
| 03:06.56 | Nytemare3701 | Inspiration-wise, music works great, but it just doesn't go as far in development. |
| 03:07.04 | Bounty | I guess its just me then |
| 03:07.10 | Nytemare3701 | Nobody will argue against music inspiring good games. |
| 03:07.11 | Bounty | Seems to have worked out for me though lol |
| 03:08.23 | Bounty | I was mostly just curious if I was the minority in my style of development |
| 03:08.27 | Nytemare3701 | ok, then a scenario for you: Let's give you 5 musical tracks and a limited budget to make a game based on them. Then let's give you 5 full levels of a mario game and let you design music for them. |
| 03:08.33 | Nytemare3701 | which one is going to have more freedom? |
| 03:09.05 | Bounty | Which one will have more freedom or which will be better if developed by me? |
| 03:09.10 | Bounty | >.< |
| 03:09.16 | Nytemare3701 | freedom, not your personal skills. |
| 03:09.39 | Nytemare3701 | Your talents skew the entire scenario, since a person highly skilled in game design would skew it the other way. |
| 03:09.47 | Bounty | Actually |
| 03:09.50 | Bounty | They're even |
| 03:10.04 | Nytemare3701 | Ok, so what happens when you add one more of each? |
| 03:10.08 | Bounty | If I'm the composer in the latter I have just as much freedom as the developer in the former scenario |
| 03:10.15 | Nytemare3701 | Now you have 5 tracks and 6 levels. |
| 03:10.17 | Bounty | the same thing |
| 03:10.22 | Bounty | lol |
| 03:10.29 | Nytemare3701 | and the other way you have 6 tracks and 5 levels. |
| 03:10.44 | Bounty | Thats stupid |
| 03:10.51 | Nytemare3701 | As soon as you imbalance it, then the limitations start to show. |
| 03:10.52 | Bounty | a level should have a unique soundtrack |
| 03:10.55 | Bounty | so derp |
| 03:10.59 | Nytemare3701 | ah, but it doesn't have to. |
| 03:11.07 | Nytemare3701 | entire worlds of mario use the same soundtrack. |
| 03:11.14 | Bounty | How long stretched was that "ah"? |
| 03:11.20 | Nytemare3701 | pretty short. |
| 03:11.24 | Bounty | Was it "ah" or was it "aaaaah!" |
| 03:11.27 | Bounty | lol |
| 03:11.29 | Nytemare3701 | speech mannerism, not doctor ah. |
| 03:12.27 | Nytemare3701 | I try to convey my thoughts the same in text as I do in life, so I use my speech mannerisms here too. |
| 03:12.58 | Nytemare3701 | (It has started to have an effect on my offline speech though...I say "lol"...) |
| 03:13.29 | Nytemare3701 | (Pronounced Lawl or Lowl, depending) |
| 03:14.20 | Nytemare3701 | Anyway, back to work. Thanks for the stimulating chat about music! |
| 03:19.30 | Bounty | I do what I can |
| 03:19.33 | Bounty | >.< |
| 03:30.00 | JademusSreg | Better yet, don't say such things aloud. |
| 03:32.24 | Bounty | ? |
| 03:35.35 | JademusSreg | Refering to internet slang. |
| 03:43.50 | Nytemare3701 | I assume host site operations is how I would make a doodad float in midair by default, just like the flip? |
| 03:45.15 | JademusSreg | Yes, but the terrain editor allows one to modify doodad height. |
| 03:46.52 | sandyravage_ | going to go out on a limb and say the modify unit effect is broken |
| 03:52.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster soryy708 (4fb575a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.181.117.160) |
| 03:52.44 | soryy708 | Hi! |
| 03:53.23 | soryy708 | How do I change/add resources? By default, there's "Minerals, Gas, Supply" but I want to (either add or change one of them to be) "Food". |
| 03:55.16 | JademusSreg | Race, for starters. |
| 03:55.56 | soryy708 | ? |
| 03:57.01 | JademusSreg | Race data : ShowResource |
| 03:59.25 | soryy708 | Okay, that's for displaying/hiding resources. |
| 03:59.36 | soryy708 | How do I actually edit the resources? |
| 04:00.17 | Bounty | Aww shit JademusSreg |
| 04:00.18 | JademusSreg | Not specific. |
| 04:00.26 | Bounty | You have competition! |
| 04:00.27 | Bounty | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11676427691 |
| 04:00.59 | JademusSreg | Nope. |
| 04:16.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-213-154.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:32.31 | Nytemare3701 | How would I destroy a unit whenever it is at a certain height? |
| 04:34.04 | Nytemare3701 | nvm |
| 04:34.13 | Nytemare3701 | finally found a height check |
| 04:52.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.226.225.102) |
| 04:53.11 | ArcanePariah | Hey Renee, how is it going? |
| 04:54.12 | Renee | Trying to create a mega bug/suggestion thread on us forum |
| 04:54.22 | ArcanePariah | Ahh nice |
| 04:55.05 | Texnical | Hmm... visualised vectors.... |
| 04:57.33 | Renee | It turns out that Ext mods are quickly become popular in CN. How is it going in other region? |
| 05:01.33 | pirate | 110 days of the contest remain |
| 05:03.42 | ArcanePariah | Renee, don't know |
| 05:13.58 | sandyravage_ | messin with an issue order effect, want my created unit to follow the caster which created it, so i set the spawn effect as the issue order. All what the issue order has for ability is Move and target:target is the create unit effect/target unit. Any idea why the new unit does not move on creation? |
| 05:26.20 | Texnical | holy crap. |
| 05:26.26 | Texnical | The custom games list... open games... |
| 05:26.33 | Texnical | ... it's practically empty... |
| 05:26.42 | Texnical | Just turned on sc2 for the first time in a while |
| 05:26.43 | Texnical | ._. |
| 05:32.28 | JademusSreg | Sand, there are several approaches to get it to follow. One is to issue the move order targeting the caster from the Spawn Effect field of the Create Unit effect. However, if the move order could ever be cleared, it would break the mechanic. Another is to periodically issue the order from a persistent effect that continues indefinitely, until either the caster or target reference is lost, |
| 05:32.28 | JademusSreg | then you'd want to destroy the effect. A little lazier approach, in case it doesn't need to coexist with other instances, is to use a behavior on the unit to issue the periodic order. |
| 05:33.23 | JademusSreg | In this demo, I use the lattermost approach for the summonable drone. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/Kubi%20Heroes.SC2Map |
| 05:35.12 | JademusSreg | Note, I also use a custom move ability to prevent the drone from being issued move orders and behavior requirements to issue the order only when the drone is too far from the hero. |
| 05:35.33 | JademusSreg | *to prevent the player from issuing move orders |
| 05:38.12 | ArcanePariah | sandyravage, if you want a unit to simply fall the unit that summoned it, you should use an Arm Magazine ability |
| 05:38.19 | ArcanePariah | And set the ammo unit to external |
| 05:38.44 | JademusSreg | Yeah, that's fun, too. |
| 05:39.01 | ArcanePariah | It is the most straightforward way imo |
| 05:39.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster sandyravage_ (6c501679@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.80.22.121) |
| 05:39.10 | JademusSreg | Agreed. |
| 05:39.24 | sandyravage_ | damn dcs |
| 05:39.29 | ArcanePariah | Welcome back |
| 05:40.03 | ArcanePariah | In case you missed our above messages, JademusSreg had a variety of ways to solve your issue, the most straightforward approach is to use an Arm Magazine ability |
| 05:40.14 | sandyravage_ | yeah missed em all |
| 05:40.35 | ArcanePariah | Arm Magazine can create a unit, and you can set a flag to have the units be stored externally (see Brood Lord broodlings that follow him along) |
| 05:41.01 | ArcanePariah | Another example of this is the first Swarm mission with Kerrigan and Raynor. Raynor is simply a magazine unit that is external |
| 05:42.17 | JademusSreg | I've got a demo related to that, as well, if necessary. =D |
| 05:42.32 | ArcanePariah | Well, really the demo map to study is that mission :D |
| 05:42.58 | JademusSreg | Prefer the term "standard reference" for such things, haha. |
| 05:43.07 | ArcanePariah | Fair point |
| 05:43.44 | ArcanePariah | Arm Magazine along with the other effects that are related are quite powerful, wish I could use them more |
| 05:43.52 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/v8w9t |
| 05:44.39 | ArcanePariah | On the external angle, does it choose them randomly or sequentially? |
| 05:44.48 | JademusSreg | Works best in conjunction with a Queue. |
| 05:45.25 | JademusSreg | Appears to choose either in a sequence or relative to some other value. Kinda weird. |
| 05:46.34 | sandyravage_ | Hmm ok ill check it out :). This issue and the stupid modify unit are the onyl roadblocks left for this character |
| 05:46.58 | sandyravage_ | i so newb |
| 05:47.13 | ArcanePariah | We were all noob once :D |
| 05:47.26 | JademusSreg | You're doing better than most new users. |
| 05:48.02 | ArcanePariah | I find it interesting that Blizzard had the foresight to include Iterate Magazine effect, but not use it themself anywhere (although they only use magazines in 3 places to begin with) |
| 05:48.42 | JademusSreg | I expect it was used at some point during development, until redesigns or more efficient solutions were found. |
| 05:49.01 | ArcanePariah | Redesign sure, more efficient, I doubt it |
| 05:49.17 | ArcanePariah | Since it simply is Iterate Transport but for a magazine |
| 05:49.31 | ArcanePariah | And Iterate Transport is pretty straight forward |
| 05:50.49 | JademusSreg | One of the two, or both, given that long ago Carrier magazines had obsolete references to kill effects, presumably to destroy interceptors. |
| 05:51.29 | ArcanePariah | Well, that's the effect to run when the magazine controlling unit dies |
| 05:52.08 | ArcanePariah | Err... nvm, that's the effect to run when the magazine unit died |
| 05:52.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Buswolley (~Buswolley@c-71-239-125-2.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 05:53.01 | Buswolley | did anyone ever find a way to do a data-based teleport with Blend? |
| 05:53.51 | sandyravage_ | thanks! its the modify unit crap not working that really screws up my learning momentum lol |
| 05:57.21 | JademusSreg | Bus, yes, easy. |
| 05:57.28 | JademusSreg | Launch Missile effects. |
| 06:05.27 | JademusSreg | Well, er, easy if you understand mover data. |
| 06:13.21 | Buswolley | Oh right on |
| 06:22.53 | JademusSreg | Think I made an "instant" missile mover, actually. |
| 06:27.21 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/r22ba |
| 06:30.22 | JademusSreg | Note, the lower the flight time, the less precise its target impact. |
| 06:33.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Nytemare (~Nytemare3@c-67-174-247-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:35.02 | JademusSreg | Or more accurately, movers with very high speeds (or very low flight time for ballistic drivers) will impact at locations which attract to form concentric rings around the point of origin. |
| 07:16.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster rts (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 07:39.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Parthon (~cheeeese@godsta.arach.net.au) |
| 07:42.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Goa (~hookah604@91-83-144-86.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:46.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster chare (322f51ac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.81.172) |
| 07:47.00 | chare | starcraft 2 sucks now |
| 07:47.02 | chare | why is that |
| 07:48.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 07:54.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
| 07:55.58 | kingTD | ok back to mapping or stealing |
| 07:56.59 | chare | stealing what? |
| 07:58.10 | kingTD | maps :D |
| 08:13.18 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 08:14.24 | JademusSreg | In what way does SC2 suck now that it didn't before? |
| 08:15.28 | Zolden | sc2 as game or sc2 as platform? |
| 08:15.51 | ArcanePariah | Saying Starcraft 2 sucks is too vague |
| 08:16.06 | ArcanePariah | From what I can gather, people object to the following |
| 08:16.36 | ArcanePariah | 1) Lack of forced social interaction of Battle.net, where one must seek out social stuff, as opposed to it being nearly forced upon people |
| 08:17.10 | ArcanePariah | 2) Democratic/popularity system of Custom Maps which make maps benefit/suffer from network effects |
| 08:17.25 | Zolden | sc2 sucks time of its players |
| 08:17.39 | ArcanePariah | 3) Fundamental design choices of races that lead to more strategic gameplay and less tactical opportunities |
| 08:18.09 | ArcanePariah | 4) Storyline that is mostly free of any involved themes or mature themes |
| 08:18.42 | ArcanePariah | 5) Complex editor that requires more effort to achieve baseline usability (high skill floor) |
| 08:18.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-4dbd79dc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:18.54 | ArcanePariah | That seems to be the main ones I have seen |
| 08:19.03 | Kueken | Hey, sharks |
| 08:19.09 | ArcanePariah | sup Kueken |
| 08:19.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster Parthon (~cheeeese@godsta.arach.net.au) |
| 08:19.15 | Zolden | hey Q |
| 08:19.34 | ArcanePariah | You wandered in the usual discussion on why people think Starcraft 2 sucks (despite the player base) |
| 08:20.30 | ArcanePariah | My analysis is that social activity in games is relatively limited, it must be forced upon people, people will not spend ANY effort to seek it out |
| 08:20.48 | ArcanePariah | Hency why mobas are popular, the game forces social activity |
| 08:20.58 | ArcanePariah | However (un)pleasant it may be |
| 08:22.52 | Zolden | calling strangers "pidar ebanyi" is a great example of social activity, gj mobas |
| 08:23.23 | Bommes | idi nahui suka blyat |
| 08:23.30 | Bommes | my russian is impeccable |
| 08:24.24 | Zolden | yea |
| 08:24.34 | ArcanePariah | ahh yes... hearing repeated "CYKA!!" in chat is so wonderful |
| 08:25.11 | ArcanePariah | I'm curious Zolden, why do people choose to play on servers other then the closest geographic one, sometimes ones on the other side of the planet? |
| 08:25.28 | JademusSreg | Spite. |
| 08:25.34 | ArcanePariah | I know it is a stero type thing, but I don't understand the practical reasons for it |
| 08:26.37 | Zolden | for russians, the less russians around, the better the place is. It concerns not only servers, also hotels in foreign countries |
| 08:28.50 | ArcanePariah | ... wait what? |
| 08:29.16 | ArcanePariah | So you are saying, for Russians, the best game is when there is only 1 or 2 russians in the game at all? |
| 08:29.37 | ArcanePariah | So russians don't want to play with or against their countrymen? |
| 08:29.46 | Zolden | russians don't like russians, trying to avoid them, and go to servers where less % of russians |
| 08:29.57 | Zolden | they diffuse along the world |
| 08:30.06 | ArcanePariah | Ok, that explains a lot |
| 08:30.18 | Zolden | they don't want to have them around, doesn't matter are they in their or in opposite team |
| 08:31.05 | ArcanePariah | So let me get this straight, not only do people from a given region complain about russians on their server, the russians complain about other russians also being on a given server? |
| 08:32.08 | chare | just face it blizzard has gone down hill |
| 08:32.11 | chare | diablo 3 sucks |
| 08:32.14 | chare | starcraft 2 sucks |
| 08:32.15 | chare | WoW sucks |
| 08:32.20 | Zolden | russians dont' complain about other russians, they take it as a bad weather - not desirable, but habitual circumstances |
| 08:33.20 | Zolden | wait, they actually do |
| 08:33.30 | Zolden | especially irl |
| 08:34.04 | Zolden | if they travel somwehre far, like brazilia, and realize, that their neighbors are russians, they like "oh cmon!" |
| 08:34.43 | Zolden | chare it's because competition is low in rts genre |
| 08:34.50 | ArcanePariah | chare, I can certainly agree that not all of Blizzard's decisions are agreeable, and I can pretty easily identify why |
| 08:34.52 | Zolden | so, quality standards are also low |
| 08:35.16 | ArcanePariah | That's one reason, there are basically no other RTS to compete with, most are terrible from what I've read |
| 08:35.29 | ArcanePariah | But here is my basic logic/argument |
| 08:36.22 | ArcanePariah | 1) The owners of blizzard (up until last october) were in fairly severe finanical difficulties, and their games division (Which as activsion/blizzard) was their main profit center, so they were probably pressuring Bobby Kotick to get more moeny |
| 08:36.32 | ArcanePariah | 2) Blizzard spread themselves way to think |
| 08:36.35 | ArcanePariah | thin* |
| 08:36.55 | ArcanePariah | How many game studios (not publishers) work on 6 games at once? |
| 08:37.16 | Kenoli | Zero |
| 08:37.31 | ArcanePariah | Well Blizzard is/was, and that cost them |
| 08:37.51 | Zolden | in the time of dune 2, wc1 was a good thing, in the times of command and conquer, wc2 was also good, in time of red alert 2, starcraft was again pretty fine - in every case, their engines were pretty cool, and they keep this technical level, their game engines always better then other rts games have |
| 08:38.28 | ArcanePariah | They had SC2, Diablo 3, Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, WoW and Titan. I think they overcommited to Titan and let everything else coast |
| 08:38.32 | Zolden | but game design is their weaker part: they good in optimizing waht they have, but not good in involving new gameplay elements |
| 08:39.33 | kingTD | seems about right |
| 08:39.36 | ArcanePariah | I would say that once Blizzard gained a measure of financial freedom + rebalanced resources after canning Titan, they placed themselves on a better track. Also I think they recognize that smaller teams = better |
| 08:40.34 | ArcanePariah | Hearthstone and Storm are both being done with small crews. SC2 is as well, but i think it has gotten an influx of resources. Hence the outreach to mapmakers with that letter last year, and the subsequent action on said wishlist |
| 08:41.44 | Zolden | i'd say, storm has completely consumed sc2 team, and sc2 was suspended for the whole year |
| 08:42.21 | ArcanePariah | I would agree |
| 08:42.41 | ArcanePariah | I would say now, the effort is now shared/pooled |
| 08:42.53 | kingTD | GIVE SOMETHING TO NOT TO BE ABLE TO AGREE WITH!!! |
| 08:43.09 | kingTD | like zolden have a big dick |
| 08:43.26 | ArcanePariah | My biggest piece of evidence for this is the confirmation that Storm will be permitted custom maps to be made for it |
| 08:43.27 | Zolden | kingTD ok: hs is a nice game |
| 08:43.46 | ArcanePariah | Also, HS is proof positive that simpler/small teams are better |
| 08:44.10 | ArcanePariah | I imagine at this point, HS has made Blizzard a considerable amount of money relative to what was invested in creating it |
| 08:44.45 | Zolden | it made yet? it supports paying cash to it? |
| 08:44.53 | ArcanePariah | Also the arcade contest, while small in terms of financials for Blizzard, represents a direct shift |
| 08:45.05 | Goa | ArcanePariah I bet they make many similar games like HS which never gets out blizzard cause it would be a failure. (like Titan) |
| 08:45.38 | Goa | aka prototyping |
| 08:45.44 | Zolden | ArcanePariah this contest may bring new maps, but how will it bring new players? |
| 08:45.48 | ArcanePariah | G0A, possibly, but HS was different because it was not engineered and designed and had a team assigned, it was just put together for fun by people in their spare time |
| 08:46.02 | Zolden | I think contest may even revive mapmakers who stopped mapmaking |
| 08:46.09 | ArcanePariah | Zolden, contest will bring new maps, that are now free to play |
| 08:46.20 | ArcanePariah | The F2P will be hook for new players i imagine |
| 08:46.35 | Goa | ArcanePariah prototyping = put together for fun by people in their spare time (you can call it many ways...) |
| 08:46.38 | ArcanePariah | Frankly, it seems Blizzard is being typical Blizzard, playing the long game |
| 08:46.46 | JademusSreg | Face it, chare has definitely gone way down hill. More down hill than Sisyphus's boulder, for reals. |
| 08:46.52 | Zolden | there are free maps already, but potential players are not aware of ft2 arcade |
| 08:47.10 | Goa | yeah |
| 08:47.24 | Goa | I dont think there was much of influx of new players to arcade |
| 08:47.27 | ArcanePariah | Is the arcade being F2P widely known yet? No, it has not been advertised. Will it spread by word of mouth slowly over time? Probably (almost certainly) |
| 08:47.49 | Goa | I wouldnt bet on that |
| 08:47.57 | ArcanePariah | Renee did drop by earlier and mentioned tha extension mods have become quite popular over in China |
| 08:48.11 | Zolden | yea, it will slowly spread, will gain 1% more players each month - too slow |
| 08:48.29 | chare | we need someone to make an RTS that is a true successor to brood war |
| 08:48.32 | chare | that doesn't suck shit |
| 08:48.40 | ArcanePariah | chare, that would be almost impossible |
| 08:48.47 | chare | why |
| 08:49.00 | Goa | ArcanePariah hmm maybe I should get Chinese account |
| 08:49.01 | ArcanePariah | Ok, you could, and it would not be popular anyhow |
| 08:49.23 | ArcanePariah | The simple reality is that RTS have a much higher skill floor then MOBAS and thus will be always more niche |
| 08:49.51 | ArcanePariah | Also, some of the basic things of brood war would be... painful to do today |
| 08:50.00 | ArcanePariah | namely pathing, and unit selection limit |
| 08:50.19 | Zolden | it's a question of learning skill: if you have fun before you gained good enough skill to win, it doesn't matter, how high the skill floor |
| 08:50.26 | Zolden | *of learning curve |
| 08:50.55 | ArcanePariah | chare, what i think people are looking for and designers are missing is people fundamentalyl do not like strategy games |
| 08:51.04 | ArcanePariah | Every pure strategy game is considered niche |
| 08:51.27 | ArcanePariah | I can almost guarentee you, counter strike has more players then chess has ever had in its existance |
| 08:52.06 | chare | we can do pathing just like warcraft 3 |
| 08:52.17 | Zolden | yea, humanity is too stupid to play strategies, they like to play slaves, like in action games, where you do what you have been said to do, while in rts you need to make your own decisions and tell ppl what to do, and majority of people can't handle it |
| 08:52.29 | chare | god damn people like call of duty |
| 08:52.36 | chare | am i right? |
| 08:52.38 | ArcanePariah | Blunty, anyone can learn tactical games, since it is based on basic biological capability (pattern recognition, fight or flight, perception), wherease strategy games require abstract thinking, which most people either A) Don't poesses or B) Do not wish to exercise during entertainment |
| 08:52.40 | ArcanePariah | Ye |
| 08:52.43 | Kenoli | Hundreds of millions of people play chess |
| 08:53.20 | Goa | maybe we should make chess game like HS |
| 08:53.38 | Zolden | Kenoli the biggest chess server has thousands online players |
| 08:54.10 | Goa | Zolden cause it marketed well:D |
| 08:54.47 | ArcanePariah | The main thing people find unfun about strategic games is that you often can lose the game... before you start |
| 08:54.58 | ArcanePariah | It becomes more about playing the player then the game |
| 08:55.07 | ArcanePariah | and theory crafting/meta gaming |
| 08:55.15 | Zolden | for example, now 2854 chess players online on server |
| 08:55.26 | chare | we are going to make a new rts |
| 08:55.29 | ArcanePariah | For instance, would anyone playing HS if there existed a combo deck that routinely won on turn 2? |
| 08:55.40 | chare | its going to have pathing like warcraft 3, infinite selection, but no rally to mining |
| 08:56.09 | ArcanePariah | And the answer would be no, it would be considered horrible (for reference this did happen in Magic the Gathering, the infamous Tolerian Academy deck) |
| 08:56.32 | ArcanePariah | By virtue of my strategy (in this case, deck choice) I was assured victory |
| 08:56.40 | ArcanePariah | People despise that |
| 08:56.41 | Kenoli | http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/6376-agon-releases-new-chess-player-statistics-from-yougov.html |
| 08:56.52 | ArcanePariah | since they lose and have no say in the matter |
| 08:57.50 | chare | magic the gathering game is broken cause they keep on increasing the power of cards |
| 08:58.01 | chare | so as to make old cards inferior and thus force you to buy new cards |
| 08:58.39 | ArcanePariah | Actually no, they simply rotate sets for standard play |
| 08:58.44 | chare | nope |
| 08:58.51 | chare | magic the gathering is just a profit making machine now |
| 08:59.28 | ArcanePariah | There is an element of power creep. Mind you, Magic the gathering gains most of its profit from the draft format, which is relatively skill based since you have to make do with the cards you are given |
| 09:00.07 | ArcanePariah | I would say MTG draft strikes a very good balance of tactics and strategy, the strategy coming from the drafting, the tactics from th games you play |
| 09:00.09 | JademusSreg | chare, what maps have you made? =D |
| 09:00.16 | chare | I DON'T MAKE MAPS |
| 09:00.20 | chare | I'm here to complain about sc2 |
| 09:00.23 | JademusSreg | How about games? |
| 09:00.26 | chare | and magic the gathering |
| 09:00.34 | chare | you do what? |
| 09:00.35 | JademusSreg | What games have you made? =D |
| 09:00.39 | ArcanePariah | Ok, if you here to complain, at least be logical, and have valid points? |
| 09:00.48 | chare | gaming is dead |
| 09:00.50 | chare | you know it |
| 09:00.52 | chare | i know it |
| 09:00.57 | chare | its all call of duty |
| 09:00.58 | ArcanePariah | Anyone can complain, including my perl script over here |
| 09:00.59 | chare | pay to win |
| 09:01.16 | chare | Haskell > Ruby > Perl |
| 09:01.19 | ArcanePariah | Funny... LOL is one of the most popular games, and has no pay to win aspect |
| 09:01.37 | ArcanePariah | Well.. you can pay to remove the grind, but that in no way assures victory |
| 09:02.23 | ArcanePariah | And if gaming is dead, I think I should remind the LoL, Dota 2, SC2, and the myriad other games player bases that they don't exist |
| 09:03.08 | chare | shitty ass games dominate |
| 09:03.15 | chare | just look at god damn angry birds |
| 09:03.28 | Kenoli | Funny how that works |
| 09:05.47 | JademusSreg | Oh, chare's just an antagonist. Judging from the records, pretty shitty one, at that. |
| 09:05.59 | Goa | :) |
| 09:06.54 | Goa | yeah like 10 years ago we could choose from like 5-10 indie games and now we can choose from thousands, gaming is dead. |
| 09:06.56 | chare | I hate lol, dota2, sc2, and heores of the storm |
| 09:07.14 | chare | Goa I'm too lazy to research a thousand game |
| 09:07.32 | Goa | yeah |
| 09:07.42 | Goa | thats why you complain |
| 09:07.53 | Kenoli | You could always just keep playing broodwar |
| 09:08.23 | Goa | this market economy, fucking people have to research what they buy, how bad is that |
| 09:08.31 | JademusSreg | chare, you're awful at this. You need to tailor your antagonism to the targets. |
| 09:08.40 | Goa | :) |
| 09:08.41 | chare | STARCRAFT 2 SUCKS |
| 09:08.43 | chare | IS THAT ENOUGH? |
| 09:08.51 | Kenoli | 9/10 |
| 09:09.00 | Goa | black is not white, IS THAT ENOUGH? |
| 09:09.02 | JademusSreg | Yeah, no one cares. In fact, many SC2 players and content devs agree, check the forums. |
| 09:09.14 | JademusSreg | So that won't get much mileage. |
| 09:09.27 | JademusSreg | -Very- low success rate. |
| 09:10.03 | chare | I want xbox one to fail |
| 09:11.16 | JademusSreg | chare, while your strategy has a good average return relative to the investment, it depends entirely on similarly idiotic people such as yourself holding dearly to irrational opinions to successfully provoke. |
| 09:12.16 | JademusSreg | With a bit more work, you could increase your provocation success rate. |
| 09:12.26 | chare | so you guys going to help me make rts sucessor of brood war |
| 09:12.31 | chare | we going to use programming language Haskell |
| 09:12.58 | JademusSreg | chare, you've already tried that on other channels. The logs show it wasn't very successful. |
| 09:14.17 | JademusSreg | You're also suggested scheme and other such. Just silly. You should instead try seeming friendly and learning about your targets before attempting to provoke, otherwise it's just a waste of effort. |
| 09:14.21 | chare | those people hate starcraft 2 |
| 09:14.24 | ArcanePariah | chare, for starters, using a Functional language for something like a game seems... counterintuitive, a procedural launguage is more appropriate. |
| 09:14.25 | chare | so what do you expect |
| 09:14.38 | chare | wtf why you looking at logs of me |
| 09:14.50 | JademusSreg | Why wouldn't I? |
| 09:14.57 | JademusSreg | Like I said, always learn about your targets. |
| 09:15.09 | chare | so you're mad that you don't know scheme? |
| 09:15.24 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 09:15.33 | chare | am I right? |
| 09:15.34 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg is merely exercising an old saying (which interestingly enough, I am personally related to) of "Knowledege is Power" |
| 09:16.05 | JademusSreg | chare, based on your performance here and in other irc channels, I suspect you've never been right, unfortunately. |
| 09:16.33 | JademusSreg | To troll more successfully, you need a more successful strategy. |
| 09:16.40 | chare | so lets make the game in C++ |
| 09:16.40 | ArcanePariah | My grandfather apparently decided to do a genelogoy of my family, and it turned out I am related to sir Francis Bacon, his mother had 2 marriages, of which my family line (mother side) desceneds from the 2nd marriage |
| 09:16.44 | chare | are you happy with C++ |
| 09:17.12 | ArcanePariah | I would prefer to simply use an existing game engine, making a fully functional game engine is an expensive and time consuming endeavor |
| 09:17.55 | JademusSreg | If, for example, you learned about the SC2 editor, you could pretend to have a made-up problem and attempt to frustrate people attempting to solve it. |
| 09:18.55 | ArcanePariah | As amusing as this is, I now require a trip to dreamland. I will see you all tomorrow, if I'm not busy working on my Java assignment |
| 09:19.24 | JademusSreg | If you learned more about programming, you'd be able to similarly frustrate people with unsolvable or inflammatory questions, instead of merely using the name of a programming language. |
| 09:19.58 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, I may inquire with you and possibly speak with DrSuperEvil about the wiki and things we can do to improve it, because atm, the old one is confusing and mostly out of data or incomplete and the new one is also incomplete |
| 09:20.23 | JademusSreg | chare, with a little time and research, you could increase your success rate by at least 300% by the end of the first quarter. |
| 09:20.35 | JademusSreg | Arc, yes it is, haha. |
| 09:20.38 | ArcanePariah | And at this point, a fair amoun of stuff is documented or known, and should be shared. |
| 09:21.04 | ArcanePariah | Also, as a possible collaboration, we should publish public mods with some simple examples of stuff so people can learn |
| 09:21.19 | chare | so you guys are saying in other words that you can't program outside of Java... |
| 09:21.30 | JademusSreg | Yeah, no shortage of demos, collecting the examples would be beneficial. |
| 09:22.08 | ArcanePariah | chare, for a good software developers, the language is borderline irrelvant. Although it takes times to learn the nuances of the language adn the existing frameworks/libraries for each, learning a given language would take me 2 weeks at most |
| 09:22.11 | JademusSreg | chare, you're just not very good at your hobby. |
| 09:22.18 | A1win | can I somehow add a button to the default menu bar and hook it up D: |
| 09:22.28 | ArcanePariah | Sure |
| 09:22.30 | chare | ArcanePariah which engine do you want to use? |
| 09:22.34 | JademusSreg | A1, certainly. |
| 09:22.47 | A1win | follow up question that no one anticipated: how? |
| 09:23.07 | chare | JademusSreg you're just mad that you haven't spend the time to learn functional languages like Haskell |
| 09:23.10 | A1win | I managed to add a button but dunno how to hook it up |
| 09:23.37 | ArcanePariah | A1win, use the Hookup Standard UI item |
| 09:23.54 | A1win | with what name? |
| 09:24.20 | ArcanePariah | Hookup the entire menu bar. Assign it to a variable, then hookup whatever within using the Hookup Dialog Item action |
| 09:24.41 | A1win | how can I hook up the entire bar? |
| 09:25.22 | ArcanePariah | Oh... that's right, hookup standard UI doesn't let you navigate... you need to supply the entire path to the UI element, which I imainge JademusSreg can provide/demonstrate for you |
| 09:25.46 | JademusSreg | Well, the UI editor can, conveniently. |
| 09:26.12 | chare | So JademusSreg and ArcanePariah choose the programming language and engine and lets get started? |
| 09:26.16 | chare | you guys afraid to start? |
| 09:26.53 | JademusSreg | By which I mean the in-game UI editor and the UI layout module can both assist in finding the frame path. |
| 09:27.16 | A1win | UI: Frame (GameUI/UIContainer/FullscreenUpperContainer/MenuBar/MyCustomButton] not able to be hooked up in [GameUI]. |
| 09:27.35 | A1win | I used that as the path to it |
| 09:28.24 | A1win | it shows up under the MenuBar in the in-game UI editor |
| 09:28.30 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 09:29.13 | JademusSreg | What's the XML? =D |
| 09:30.56 | A1win | https://pastee.org/q9apx (it's not actually MyCustomButton but I replaced it for convenience) |
| 09:31.11 | chare | god damn it another group of people not willing to commit to making a game |
| 09:31.23 | Kenoli | There's only one language appropriate for game development |
| 09:31.31 | Kenoli | Brainfuck. |
| 09:32.12 | JademusSreg | ^ |
| 09:33.50 | JademusSreg | Oh, or ASM. With ASM, you have the pleasure of coding and building for every processor architecture. Not as fun as Brainfuck, but a lot more work. |
| 09:33.55 | chare | JademusSreg so what are you working on if you're not going to help on game |
| 09:34.58 | Goa | yeah, fuck you all for not making games! |
| 09:35.30 | JademusSreg | Oh, here's one where chare was slightly, marginally, somewhat more successful: http://echelog.com/logs/browse/opengl/1380837600 |
| 09:35.54 | JademusSreg | Coincidentally, using one of the strategies I suggested, for which I shall take all credit. |
| 09:36.15 | JademusSreg | Oh, unless chare was sincerely looking for help that time. |
| 09:36.23 | JademusSreg | In which case, that would be embrassing. |
| 09:36.27 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 09:37.31 | chare | why do you keep on touching my private life |
| 09:40.59 | A1win | bleh can't figure out what's wrong with the XML/hookup |
| 09:44.29 | JademusSreg | Curious, what does it do without calling the hookup? |
| 09:44.50 | A1win | creates a button for the menu bar? D: |
| 09:44.56 | A1win | hmm now it didn't give an error |
| 09:45.45 | JademusSreg | Magic. =D |
| 09:46.53 | A1win | err... still doesn't actually work though |
| 09:47.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (4d26cd7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.38.205.122) |
| 09:49.30 | A1win | how do I actually hook up the MenuBar? |
| 09:49.58 | A1win | using hookup standard dialog item with GameUI/UIContainer/FullscreenUpperContainer/MenuBar as name and Panel as type |
| 09:50.56 | A1win | doesn't give an error but then hooking up the new button with the hookup dialog item function doesn't seem to work, even though that doesn't give an error either |
| 09:53.13 | A1win | mmh it isn't even creating a clicked event |
| 09:53.18 | A1win | so maybe the hook actually works <.< |
| 09:53.25 | A1win | the button itself doesn't? |
| 09:54.10 | JademusSreg | Really ought to have the button use a template. =D |
| 09:55.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kenoli (Kenoli@72.238.78.95) |
| 10:01.32 | A1win | meh turns out I still have no clue how to use templates |
| 10:02.56 | A1win | would be so much easier to just create that damn thing with triggers <.< |
| 10:03.09 | JademusSreg | Haha. It's just like parenting. You want it to have some default values so you're not forced to repeat yourself, so to speak. |
| 10:03.30 | A1win | I know how it's supposed to work, just no idea how to set it up correctly |
| 10:03.54 | A1win | mainly 1) where to put the template 2) how to refer to that template |
| 10:05.41 | A1win | well might have worked now |
| 10:05.44 | A1win | still a huge mess though |
| 10:06.15 | A1win | (and the hookup still doesn't work) |
| 10:07.44 | A1win | now the button's border image is too wide e ven though it uses same height/width as before it was using a template |
| 10:09.36 | A1win | probably because it was set up wrong before and only worked because of how it fit it inside the frame with other elements <.< |
| 10:09.52 | A1win | so yeah the template works now, but the hookup still doesn't |
| 10:11.29 | Kenoli | So I've apparently lost the ability to order units with right click |
| 10:12.21 | A1win | https://pastee.org/n4xz8 |
| 10:14.39 | A1win | https://pastee.org/7bcbj |
| 10:15.28 | A1win | there is no dialog item clicked event from the button |
| 10:15.35 | JademusSreg | Does dialog control hookup standard work properly? |
| 10:15.43 | A1win | I don't know <.< |
| 10:16.14 | A1win | but the button doesn't work even without the hookups |
| 10:16.41 | A1win | does it need some kind of setting to make it a button that fires script events |
| 10:17.37 | JademusSreg | Should test each part. To test the dialog control hookup standard, attempt to use the dialog control API to modify one of its properties. |
| 10:19.16 | A1win | tried hiding it, nothing happens |
| 10:20.32 | A1win | moving doesn't do anything either... so I guess it didn't work |
| 10:21.18 | JademusSreg | So once that problem is solved, the rest should be cake. Cheesecake. =D |
| 10:22.09 | Kenoli | This is pretty weird |
| 10:22.17 | A1win | dunno how to solve it though <.< |
| 10:22.39 | Kenoli | What could possibly make right click orders not work |
| 10:23.00 | JademusSreg | Also, why does your button name end with "/"? =D |
| 10:23.38 | A1win | huh? |
| 10:23.46 | JademusSreg | Ken, for anything or specific things? |
| 10:24.17 | A1win | I don't see no "/" :X |
| 10:24.31 | Kenoli | Just moving units it seems |
| 10:24.40 | Kenoli | Right click will still cancel abilities and such |
| 10:24.46 | Kenoli | So it's physically working. |
| 10:25.04 | Kenoli | It's doing this to me in all maps |
| 10:25.12 | A1win | could be a Smart ability that overrides all other smart abilities? |
| 10:25.15 | Kenoli | Tried restarting, rebooting |
| 10:25.18 | A1win | O.o |
| 10:25.34 | A1win | even in standard SC2? |
| 10:25.37 | Kenoli | Yes |
| 10:25.51 | Kenoli | Next step is to burn the world down and start over from scratch |
| 10:25.59 | A1win | mouse broken? |
| 10:26.30 | Kenoli | Right click is still working for other things, even inside sc2 |
| 10:26.48 | A1win | "where does it hurt?" "here, and here, and here, and here" -> broken finger |
| 10:30.04 | A1win | ah, the frame name had an extra / |
| 10:30.19 | A1win | well that part still worked, anyway |
| 10:57.08 | kingTD | hmm what file in Map mpq is responsible for Pathing layers painted on terrain to edited be |
| 10:57.58 | JademusSreg | Pardon, was afk. |
| 10:58.36 | JademusSreg | Ken, is this in a WIP project or a fresh map? |
| 10:59.05 | A1win | it's not a map, it's his SC2 as a whole |
| 11:00.21 | JademusSreg | Move ability contains Smart Priority fields that configure smart command shit. With those set to 0, it definitely breaks right click orders for Move. |
| 11:01.22 | JademusSreg | Also wonder if there is perhaps a control option in SC2 for smart commands. |
| 11:01.36 | A1win | tried looking, didn't find one |
| 11:02.25 | A1win | the closest one is "Enable Simple Command Card" but that's just a visual thing, and kind of has the opposite purpose |
| 11:04.27 | JademusSreg | In-game > F10 > Options Hotkeys > Unit management > Smart Commands |
| 11:04.41 | JademusSreg | See if Right Mouse Button is unbound. |
| 11:05.20 | A1win | ahh, didn't even realize mouse buttons were in the hotkeys |
| 11:05.44 | A1win | Kenoli, ^ |
| 11:06.11 | JademusSreg | All the more reason for maps to allow per-document custom hotkey configurations. |
| 11:06.31 | A1win | mmm |
| 11:07.04 | A1win | been thinking I probably need some proper team vs team game modes than simple team deathmatch |
| 11:07.08 | A1win | it's not very fun on the long run |
| 11:07.19 | A1win | something like king of the hill might be nice |
| 11:07.33 | A1win | an area in the center of the map that you can capture based on your team's presence |
| 11:08.18 | A1win | in team DM, there's no way to "prevent" the enemy from gaining score, it's more like a race |
| 11:09.57 | JademusSreg | Sounds familiar. =D |
| 11:10.21 | A1win | familiar as in we've had this conversation before? :P |
| 11:10.55 | A1win | last time I wasn't comparing team DM to other game modes, but FFA DM to team play |
| 11:11.10 | A1win | team DM is still better than regular DM anyway |
| 11:11.19 | JademusSreg | Also, so long as the number of capture points are odd-numbered and distributed relative to the lines between team start positions, can have any amount you like. |
| 11:11.34 | A1win | mm |
| 11:12.25 | A1win | static maps with a few different game modes, though maybe just different numbers of capturable areas for a start |
| 11:12.57 | A1win | would be nice to have a proper map editor for the arena layout :P |
| 11:13.14 | A1win | blizz should've thought we might want an editor within an editor :< |
| 11:18.07 | Kenoli | It was unbound |
| 11:18.34 | Kenoli | How is that even a thing |
| 11:18.37 | Kenoli | v____v;;; |
| 11:21.33 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 11:22.48 | JademusSreg | http://youtu.be/BvYByDQq4gc |
| 11:24.31 | A1win | arcade showcase forum looks pretty dead |
| 11:25.03 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 11:25.05 | A1win | there's been threads for the contest for over a week and they have like 8-40 views and no replies |
| 11:25.39 | A1win | and those that have more than 8 views are because the author has replied to their own thread so that it looks like there's some interest in it |
| 11:26.22 | A1win | oh actually that one with 8 views is pretty new, the others have ~20-40 views |
| 11:26.25 | A1win | but anyway |
| 11:27.10 | JademusSreg | I imagine those who intend to participate are busy working on their entries. |
| 11:27.21 | A1win | time to journey to a place where merchants trade food for money |
| 11:27.36 | A1win | yeah but I mean players don't seem to have any interest in that forum |
| 11:27.41 | A1win | or the contest |
| 11:28.14 | A1win | not that those entries that are there have been particularly interesting anyway |
| 11:55.10 | kingTD | Euro Truck Simulator 2 live stream viewers 8,3k :s |
| 11:57.24 | Zolden | JademusSreg cat stepped on keyboard, and photoshop consumed all screen space, no windows, nothing seen - how to undo it? |
| 11:58.40 | kingTD | go feed the cat |
| 12:02.09 | Zolden | ok |
| 12:02.14 | Zolden | hope it help and he'll undo it |
| 12:07.16 | A1win | fullscreen mode, F11 or something |
| 12:07.30 | A1win | or maybe some fullscreen preview thing |
| 12:08.05 | Zolden | yea, in browser it's f11 |
| 12:08.10 | Zolden | in ps is unknown |
| 12:08.27 | Zolden | oh, found it |
| 12:09.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-24.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 12:12.24 | Zolden | I made this http://i.snag.gy/qfjjk.jpg |
| 12:25.41 | Goa | wow, you are at least better in art than me |
| 12:27.29 | Zolden | don't think it's possible that i'm better than anyone in drawing |
| 12:32.31 | JademusSreg | Cute. |
| 12:33.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@HSI-KBW-134-3-182-235.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 12:38.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (moorhsum@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:40.47 | A1win | Zolden, wanna help me get started with the art tools? D: |
| 12:41.15 | A1win | just installed 3dsmax 2011 and the art tools, both 64-bit |
| 12:41.30 | A1win | and now... I have no further clue |
| 12:41.46 | A1win | oo I see SC2ArtTools menu in 3dsmax |
| 12:42.00 | A1win | I see it has menu items in it |
| 12:44.05 | Bommes | just click them |
| 12:44.09 | Bommes | all of them |
| 12:44.15 | Bommes | possibly in alphabetical order |
| 12:44.23 | A1win | do I do that after or before I roll my face over the keyboard? |
| 12:45.58 | Goa | you should roll something green and smoke it then continue in your "learning" |
| 12:52.35 | Goa | fucking shit hs |
| 12:52.50 | Goa | how the hack does one warior only draws beast cards |
| 12:52.57 | A1win | that reminds me, I need to do my quests |
| 13:02.09 | kingTD | a1win totally new to 3ds max? there are more help than zolden, like utube tutorials, and for tools themselves in texts.. |
| 13:03.14 | A1win | I just need help with converting models into SC2, not necessarily modeling itself |
| 13:03.37 | A1win | like how to set up textures, animations, attachment points etc. |
| 13:13.24 | kingTD | there is documentation on the use of SC2 art tools and without knowledge of 3ds max u will make that happen |
| 13:13.46 | kingTD | so search for those first |
| 13:26.37 | kingTD | WHY THIS TEXTURE IS SOOO FUCKED!??! |
| 13:29.05 | kingTD | and next second u solve the issue |
| 13:29.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster maltenp (~maltenp@c-31e170d5.09-37-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 13:34.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 13:35.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Blub\w (~wry@93.83.4.190) |
| 13:37.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster NickG365 (~NickG365@2605:a000:1218:4012:223:8bff:fe02:526) |
| 13:38.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster rts (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 13:46.31 | Goa | yay mind stealing golden 8 mana card in HS arena is fun:D |
| 13:48.30 | Goa | I mean legendary |
| 14:05.18 | kingTD | nope not clear still what u want to say |
| 14:10.10 | Goa | .) |
| 14:10.15 | Goa | nm |
| 14:10.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster jokoon (~jokoon@2a01:e35:398b:5d60:35d8:b068:539c:8b8f) |
| 14:10.40 | jokoon | hello |
| 14:11.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster Blub\w (~wry@unaffiliated/blubw/x-6625061) |
| 14:15.44 | jokoon | so you can't have a melee map if you change abilities ? |
| 14:16.09 | JademusSreg | Make an extension mod instead. |
| 14:16.32 | jokoon | oh |
| 14:16.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-123-174-201.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 14:16.47 | jokoon | and then create a custom map using that extension mod ? |
| 14:17.23 | JademusSreg | Nope. People can choose to use the extension mod on any melee map they want in a custom game. |
| 14:17.56 | jokoon | yeah that's what I meant |
| 14:19.37 | jokoon | I just want to have custom keyboard shortcuts |
| 14:19.41 | Bommes | A1win, don't you have the ArtTools tutorials? |
| 14:19.53 | A1win | haven't looked for them yet |
| 14:19.53 | jokoon | and have a custom map with that extension mod |
| 14:19.54 | Bommes | they basically cover every point that you mentioned on what you want to do |
| 14:20.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 14:20.45 | Bommes | though animations covered in the tutorials are more in terms of how to give already existing animations names etc to conver them into sc2 |
| 14:21.09 | Zolden | A1win sry, internet was down |
| 14:21.15 | Bommes | because I think doing 3D animations is actually quite complicated |
| 14:21.19 | Zolden | now it's fine and i'm ready to get you started with art tools |
| 14:21.35 | A1win | Bommes, I just mean setting the animations up so that they work in SC2 |
| 14:21.37 | Bommes | not sure though |
| 14:21.48 | A1win | I'm not planning on modeling myself, just need to know how to import models to SC2 |
| 14:21.50 | Bommes | yeah that's covered in the tutorials |
| 14:21.57 | Bommes | they are really good |
| 14:22.13 | Bommes | in my experience, I could easily follow them and get stuff done even without any knowledge of wtf is going on in 3dsmax |
| 14:22.39 | A1win | blizzard's tutorials or what? |
| 14:25.30 | kingTD | YESSSS |
| 14:25.31 | kingTD | FFSS |
| 14:26.05 | Zolden | A1win yea, exporting is described in docs you have with art tools installation |
| 14:29.57 | Zolden | Bommes actually, there is nothing complex in 3d modelling, it's mostly primitive and routine stuff |
| 14:30.03 | Zolden | programming is more complex |
| 14:30.06 | Zolden | and interesting |
| 14:31.57 | A1win | got any example models I can practice with? ;p |
| 14:33.15 | Zolden | art tools include some sc2 units |
| 14:33.21 | Zolden | check installation folder |
| 14:33.29 | Zolden | or whatever it was installed to |
| 14:38.19 | Bommes | animations seem pretty complicated though in terms of just knowing anatomically what's going on and stuff |
| 14:42.04 | kingTD | nanannanana batman http://snag.gy/CCJoL.jpg |
| 14:42.23 | Zolden | for animation one defines bones and how they bend, it's simple, and then one just moves helpers, which is also simple |
| 14:42.51 | Zolden | kingTD what is it? |
| 14:43.05 | kingTD | finger for u!!!!! |
| 14:47.25 | Zolden | Goa they have forbidden bitcoins in russia |
| 14:51.56 | JademusSreg | Orly? |
| 14:53.39 | jokoon | doesn't the "test document" function load my custom shortcuts ? |
| 14:53.45 | JademusSreg | Why must the established ruthless criminal oligarchy oppress the emerging ruthless criminal hackers? It's a damn shame. |
| 14:53.53 | jokoon | or should I customize my map for it ? |
| 14:54.16 | JademusSreg | jok, clarify? |
| 14:54.33 | jokoon | When I play ladder I have my playing shortcuts |
| 14:54.39 | jokoon | you can customize them in game |
| 14:54.49 | jokoon | I just tested a simple melee map |
| 14:54.53 | jokoon | I made |
| 14:55.05 | jokoon | and it uses the default keyboard shortcuts |
| 14:55.10 | jokoon | I want mine |
| 14:55.28 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 14:56.04 | A1win | err, the art tools documentation navigation bar doesn't work ;p |
| 14:56.06 | kingTD | Jokoon u can loggin to bnet with that Editor launched SC2.exe and then it will use them when testing |
| 14:57.13 | jokoon | kingTD, Im already logged in |
| 14:57.25 | A1win | is the documentation available online somewhere? |
| 14:59.25 | kingTD | so it doenst use them? |
| 15:00.05 | jokoon | no |
| 15:00.13 | jokoon | it use the default ones |
| 15:00.17 | A1win | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10196069513 ah... |
| 15:00.43 | A1win | too bad the only browsers I have installed are Chrome and Opera and they both use the same engine |
| 15:01.08 | jokoon | it's odd because I played a custom map with an extension mod and it had my custom hotkeys |
| 15:02.06 | JademusSreg | I'd like to know the difficulty Chrome users might have. I imagine some missing CSS shit, but haven't seen it. |
| 15:02.30 | A1win | JademusSreg, the navigation doesn't work |
| 15:02.47 | A1win | links do nothing and the submenus don't expand |
| 15:03.14 | JademusSreg | I'd like to see the files, but sadly am busy. |
| 15:04.05 | A1win | the menu is made with javascript |
| 15:04.14 | JademusSreg | Makes sense. |
| 15:04.56 | A1win | ah, the titles aren't even supposed to be links, they are just supposed to expand their submenus when clicking on them |
| 15:05.17 | A1win | their link href is set to "javascript:void(0)" |
| 15:05.29 | A1win | +; |
| 15:05.30 | JademusSreg | What errors does the developer/inspection panel report? |
| 15:06.25 | A1win | where should it display them |
| 15:06.33 | A1win | ah |
| 15:07.02 | A1win | Uncaught SecurityError: Blocked a frame with origin "null" from accessing a frame with origin "null". Protocols, domains, and ports must match. tutorial.js:32 |
| 15:07.05 | A1win | event.returnValue is deprecated. Please use the standard event.preventDefault() instead. |
| 15:07.08 | A1win | Uncaught SecurityError: Blocked a frame with origin "null" from accessing a frame with origin "null". Protocols, domains, and ports must match. tutorial.js:23 |
| 15:07.38 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 15:15.58 | jokoon | my bad, that's just the test document function that won't load custom hotkeys |
| 15:24.55 | Goa | Zolden lol |
| 15:27.28 | Goa | Zolden I guess they just made it more favorable for Russians by banning it:D |
| 15:29.13 | Goa | kingTD I found your dream company, Ragequit Corporation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSAQYnKUsY8 |
| 15:29.36 | kingTD | yes, already finishing to consume the content |
| 15:31.02 | JademusSreg | Twod is either a Defiler or a Viper. |
| 15:34.34 | kingTD | DAZZLE! |
| 15:40.46 | Kenoli | So I updated this map for the first time in 15 months |
| 15:41.31 | Zolden | still too frequent |
| 15:41.34 | Kenoli | People were asking me to do it |
| 15:41.37 | Kenoli | The whole time. |
| 15:42.32 | Kenoli | The map is Fatty Fight |
| 15:43.20 | Zolden | i hope you haven't included the whole campaign for only one fatty model |
| 15:43.36 | Kenoli | Better believe it |
| 15:44.08 | Zolden | including campaing increases loading time |
| 15:44.17 | Zolden | you could jsut import the model and textures |
| 15:45.45 | Kenoli | How much does it increase loading time |
| 15:47.44 | Zolden | like twice |
| 15:58.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster EntityEnigma (629696b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.150.150.178) |
| 16:06.48 | EntityEnigma | If I'm having trouble getting a model actor to show in game for a lurker attack what would you guys say is wrong? |
| 16:07.01 | EntityEnigma | *lurker spikes |
| 16:07.20 | A1win | murder |
| 16:08.44 | EntityEnigma | DrSuperEvil keeps posting these non descriptive one sentense responses in the forum |
| 16:08.53 | EntityEnigma | i can never tell waht the hell he is talking about and have to ask 500 questions |
| 16:12.25 | kingTD | troubled kid :/ |
| 16:16.42 | JademusSreg | Ah, found a problem with my Scalar script, or rather its design. |
| 16:20.42 | kingTD | ohh jizz, nowhere near to finish this basic terrain :/ |
| 16:24.06 | jokoon | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2416154383 can't find the drop down menu |
| 16:24.51 | jokoon | found it |
| 16:25.52 | A1win | I have an urge to create a sandboxyish co-op survival game again |
| 16:26.31 | A1win | (not to start it before this project, though) |
| 16:26.40 | A1win | *before this project is finished |
| 16:27.41 | A1win | haven't seen any good ones around |
| 16:27.57 | A1win | starbound etc. are more like survivalish sandbox games |
| 16:28.45 | A1win | don't starve isn't co-op and it's not that awesome anyway, too much noise in its randomization |
| 16:28.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (Raziel@2a01:388:201:4190:84b4:afbc:b1c6:936b) |
| 16:30.11 | A1win | and too sandboxy as well |
| 16:31.29 | A1win | something more along the lines of FTL, but less brutal (or less roguelike), and co-op |
| 16:31.59 | A1win | (not necessarily in that setting) |
| 16:32.32 | Goa | you have cruiser command map, thats quite good map actually |
| 16:32.50 | kingTD | there are minecraft maps! like building barracks and getting those marrines to defend from zombies! |
| 16:33.00 | A1win | eww ;p |
| 16:33.31 | A1win | minecraft isn't a good platform for games |
| 16:33.33 | Goa | :) |
| 16:33.44 | A1win | haven't tried cruiser command |
| 16:33.54 | A1win | watched a bit of video of it long ago and wasn't really convinced |
| 16:34.06 | Goa | I played it lot in W3 |
| 16:34.26 | A1win | ah, didn't even know it was that old |
| 16:34.28 | Goa | the sc2 remake is quite good, but it doesnt added anything really new to the map |
| 16:35.22 | A1win | anyway I've been thinking about this genre quite a bit lately, got some pretty solid ideas and a good sense of what a game like that should be like |
| 16:35.52 | Goa | its nice map to do |
| 16:36.17 | Goa | there was an FTL like map in w3 too, (only coop) was quite nice |
| 16:36.37 | Goa | I just dont remember its name:( |
| 16:36.59 | Goa | Space Rogues |
| 16:37.03 | Goa | (now I remember) |
| 16:37.04 | A1win | the most important part of this genre is that the players have some kind of a base/vehicle that they can keep updating while the environment around it changes in some way |
| 16:37.27 | A1win | look at don't starve for example, you build a base and eventually you use up all the resources close to it |
| 16:37.38 | A1win | and probably have to relocate or make really long trips |
| 16:38.21 | A1win | but if the base/ship/whatever is moving, the environment keeps changing and available resources keep refreshing |
| 16:43.10 | Goa | hmm |
| 16:43.16 | Goa | we should make a map like that:) |
| 16:47.07 | jokoon | si there a limit of map upload per hour or something ? |
| 16:47.20 | A1win | don't think so |
| 16:47.26 | A1win | never heard of such a limit |
| 16:47.44 | kingTD | depends how much u already done so? |
| 16:47.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Buswolley (~Buswolley@c-71-239-125-2.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:49.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster mille25 (5de6f9ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.230.249.174) |
| 16:49.10 | mille25 | hi |
| 16:49.21 | kingTD | nigga |
| 16:49.30 | mille25 | :o |
| 16:49.47 | jokoon | 6/20 documents 1.45MB/157MB |
| 16:50.18 | jokoon | file size has not been optimized but the think weighs less than 5ko |
| 16:50.22 | jokoon | kB |
| 16:52.22 | kingTD | i mean the amount of maps, files uploaded today |
| 16:52.53 | jokoon | 2 or 3 |
| 16:52.56 | jokoon | or less |
| 16:53.07 | A1win | yeah no limit that low |
| 16:53.33 | A1win | I've uploaded several versions of one map within short periods of time when I've tested stuff on bnet |
| 17:08.44 | A1win | JademusSreg, which capture mechanic makes more sense? a team gains influence over an area at a rate a*[number of team members in the area] (and decreases opposing team's influence at the same rate) and 1) both teams constantly gain score based on their influence or 2) the team with higher influence over the area gains score at a fixed rate, other team gains no score |
| 17:08.48 | jokoon | how would I make zerg building being not on creep stop taking damage ? |
| 17:09.31 | A1win | remove the Zerg - Building Not On Creep behavior from it |
| 17:12.17 | A1win | (in Unit, field "Behavior: Behaviors - Behavior") |
| 17:15.15 | jokoon | thanks ! |
| 17:18.25 | kingTD | 1/3 of the map left :s |
| 17:18.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-230-147.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:26.59 | Zolden | Dustin wtf |
| 17:27.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:28.00 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 17:28.07 | ArcanePariah | I see the troll has left |
| 17:28.23 | ArcanePariah | How long did he continue to rant? |
| 17:29.17 | A1win | only a few lines after you left |
| 17:31.45 | Bommes | troll? |
| 17:32.00 | A1win | oh a 3rd option for are capture mechanic that might be the best, and simplest... controller of area changes after the opposing team gains 100% influence of the area, and then the other team has to go from 0% to 100% again (and the opposing team can decrease it with their presence) |
| 17:32.39 | A1win | or dunno if that's best D: |
| 17:34.29 | ArcanePariah | Bommes, person came in here telling us why blizzard is going to hell, all games suck, game is dying, etc. |
| 17:37.25 | kingTD | heretic |
| 17:43.37 | Goa | the world is ending! |
| 17:43.44 | Goa | The end is near! |
| 17:48.09 | duckies | about damn time! |
| 17:54.35 | ArcanePariah | So... duckies had created the doom duck? |
| 17:54.38 | ArcanePariah | :P |
| 17:55.10 | A1win | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgCtPqRIEAAuMgp.jpg |
| 17:55.22 | A1win | that's the "don't give a fuck duck" |
| 18:01.48 | JademusSreg | A1, they both can make sense, but option 1 is best for drawing out the play's pacing. |
| 18:03.53 | A1win | mm it seems the "cleanest" approach |
| 18:04.03 | A1win | as long as I can communicate to the players on the UI properly |
| 18:05.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken1 (~Kueken@brsg-4dbd79dc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:06.27 | Bommes | EU down? |
| 18:06.35 | Bommes | nevermind |
| 18:06.38 | Bommes | EU super slow though |
| 18:09.32 | Goa | yeah |
| 18:09.36 | Goa | EU unusable |
| 18:13.43 | mille25 | auth servers are still randomly fucking up. |
| 18:14.21 | mille25 | JademusSreg: Do you have any idea how to attach a model to a unit via script without actually making it increase the units selection radius (Clicking on the attached model selects the unit appearently) |
| 18:16.52 | Zolden | mille25 model itself can be unselectable, or attach actor that has that flag to not be selectable |
| 18:17.14 | mille25 | Zolden: Is that a flag for actors/models? |
| 18:17.34 | Zolden | for models it's a flag, for actors it's another flag |
| 18:17.45 | Zolden | by model i mean m3. not data entry |
| 18:19.16 | mille25 | So how can I alter the flag for the m3? |
| 18:20.56 | Zolden | only in max |
| 18:21.24 | Zolden | in hexedit too, but who knows the adress |
| 18:21.48 | mille25 | Okay so basically you are saying you can alter the model itself so its not selectable by using a model editing program? |
| 18:22.11 | Zolden | yes, there's "hit test" falg for material |
| 18:22.28 | Zolden | if it's off, model mesh won't be hit testable |
| 18:22.48 | Kenoli | Isn't it annoying how the model files contain important properties |
| 18:22.58 | mille25 | Alright cool, thanks. I suppose for actors it would be the "Allow Hit Test" flag, then? |
| 18:23.03 | Bommes | ok rtschutter I actually have to take my opinion back, the laser is pretty fun :D |
| 18:23.08 | Zolden | mille25 yea |
| 18:23.17 | Bommes | in the video it looked like it's more of a medium range thing |
| 18:23.36 | mille25 | Do you think I could use attach actor to unit instead of attach model to unit to override the m3 flag with the actor flag? |
| 18:23.40 | Kenoli | Did he add the laser already? |
| 18:23.41 | mille25 | Or would that not work? |
| 18:23.59 | Zolden | mille25 actor flag definitely overrides the model flag, try it |
| 18:24.16 | mille25 | Awesome, will try, thanks Zolden. |
| 18:25.04 | Kenoli | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi_Tzm68luw |
| 18:25.09 | Kenoli | So good |
| 18:26.27 | Kenoli | Its range is until it hits unwalkable terrain |
| 18:35.06 | mille25 | It works Zolden :D |
| 18:38.15 | Kenoli | Zolden, removing the campaign dependency had no effect on load time |
| 18:41.23 | kingTD | well if u remove instantly it before testing, u wont see change since data is already loaded into memory |
| 18:42.47 | kingTD | ok africa left |
| 18:44.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-213-154.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:46.18 | Zolden | Kenoli yea, try on bnet |
| 18:46.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster pirate (45c4896d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.196.137.109) |
| 18:47.21 | Kenoli | I did |
| 18:48.47 | Kenoli | I measured it multiple times before and after, with and without restarting |
| 18:48.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 18:49.01 | Zolden | and always equal? |
| 18:49.43 | Kenoli | The first load was about 10 seconds every time, and subsequent loads about 6 seconds every time |
| 18:51.16 | Goa | JademusSreg did you try my Entropy TD?:) |
| 18:51.52 | Zolden | Kueken1 did you try my mines and magic? |
| 18:54.09 | JademusSreg | Goa, not yet. Been busy. Also, working on PCVD. |
| 18:54.57 | Kenoli | rts the laser seems a bit bugged |
| 18:54.58 | JademusSreg | mille, pardon, was afk. |
| 18:55.16 | Zolden | JademusSreg what VD for? |
| 18:55.23 | Zolden | violent destruction? |
| 18:55.31 | Zolden | viscious depenetration? |
| 18:55.44 | Zolden | vital demonstration? |
| 18:55.52 | JademusSreg | Venereal Disease? |
| 18:56.02 | Goa | vaginal demolition |
| 18:56.06 | pirate | venerable defenestration |
| 18:56.07 | Zolden | lol |
| 18:56.09 | JademusSreg | Porcine CinoViral Disease? |
| 18:57.53 | kingTD | okay http://snag.gy/RNpIY.jpg |
| 18:58.02 | kingTD | lets pooooooooooo a little |
| 18:58.46 | JademusSreg | Vociferous Delinquency? |
| 19:00.36 | pirate | I see the mediterranean sea |
| 19:02.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-4dbd771e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:02.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster A1win (a1win@217.112.241.121) |
| 19:03.16 | kingTD | i see dead people |
| 19:03.29 | JademusSreg | Ah, now I remember. Photon Cycles: Virtual Drive. Instead of a mere visual aesthetic, using the digital/virtual/computer concept to further shape the presentational context and gameplay content. |
| 19:06.03 | mille25 | As i see the EU server is still taking a crap. :D |
| 19:06.22 | Bommes | indeed |
| 19:06.46 | mille25 | I also got some weird issues going on while browsing the arcade. Sometimes maps are just black icons and i cant click them. |
| 19:06.51 | mille25 | This happens on all regions. :( |
| 19:07.02 | Goa | bnet powa |
| 19:07.04 | Bommes | seems to be map dependant as well |
| 19:07.16 | mille25 | Especially my own maps seem to have display problems. |
| 19:07.24 | Bommes | some maps are just blanked out both in browse and in the open games section |
| 19:07.26 | Bommes | unless you reconnect |
| 19:07.46 | Bommes | of course reconnecting is a matter of luck because login servers take 10 minutes or don't let you in at all |
| 19:08.42 | Bommes | kenoli, how? laser seemed fine to me |
| 19:08.49 | Bommes | when i played it an hour ago or so |
| 19:09.03 | Bommes | you have to stand still |
| 19:09.10 | Bommes | for some seconds to use it |
| 19:10.02 | Kenoli | If you shoot normal shots while it's charging it'll go off invisibly |
| 19:10.30 | Bommes | oh, okay ^^ that seems pretty buggy then |
| 19:10.40 | Kenoli | Also I may have been able to charge two at once but it's hard to tell |
| 19:11.43 | Bommes | mille, is the camera in SC:U actually lagless (when holding down right mouse and moving around the camera)? |
| 19:12.09 | Bommes | or is it just the improved Bnet latency that I can't even distinguish it anymore? ^^ |
| 19:12.31 | Kenoli | I made an example map for him so he could see how to do it |
| 19:12.35 | Kenoli | http://www.stardepot.org/uploads/kenoli/Laser.SC2Map |
| 19:13.14 | Kenoli | In this the spell is just uninterruptable |
| 19:13.14 | mille25 | Bommes: Its lagless. |
| 19:13.32 | mille25 | Its possible to override the camera rotation hotkey. |
| 19:13.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-213-154.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:15.24 | Goa | yay EU is unplayable now |
| 19:15.55 | Goa | hope they loose all the bnet data and everybody has to reupload his maps:D |
| 19:16.02 | mille25 | lol |
| 19:16.12 | Bommes | mille25, oh, awesome :) Can you do that with other control stuff as well? |
| 19:16.34 | mille25 | Probably yes. But didnt dig deep into that Bommes . |
| 19:16.38 | Bommes | like maybe not only camera rotation but also movement |
| 19:16.53 | Bommes | alright |
| 19:16.53 | mille25 | Movement will always have delay, because it needs to be synchronized. |
| 19:17.32 | Bommes | camera movement I meant |
| 19:17.46 | mille25 | Ah. Yes that may be possible. |
| 19:18.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 19:19.56 | Goa | EU HS is down too:D |
| 19:20.10 | mille25 | Goa: Its the auth servers, so it effects all games. :D |
| 19:21.04 | Goa | http://eu.battle.net/arcade/en/blog/12833183/free-arcade-night-recap-07-02-2014 |
| 19:24.07 | pirate | whats up with the map 'links' |
| 20:02.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@pC19F7ED7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:07.21 | kingTD | why does minimap isnt rendered with Water? |
| 20:18.03 | Ahli | set the minimap bounds to update it |
| 20:18.25 | Ahli | I mean the playable map area |
| 20:18.32 | Ahli | I mean camera bounds |
| 20:18.51 | Ahli | yeah, it was camera bounds with enabled minimap changes |
| 20:24.08 | kingTD | well yeah, but it wont update the one will be used loading map and stuff. |
| 20:25.58 | Ahli | what? |
| 20:26.08 | Goa | Zolden 15 reaper > 9 sun idol |
| 20:26.10 | Ahli | I fail to understand what you've said :D |
| 20:27.07 | kingTD | yeah missing words like: the minimap that will be displayed on loading screen |
| 20:27.34 | kingTD | goa seems like balance |
| 20:28.31 | kingTD | plus the default minimap shows the lowest layer of cliffs textures that is covered by water... |
| 20:28.34 | kingTD | so that sucks too |
| 20:28.44 | *** part/#sc2mapster Goa (~hookah604@91-83-144-86.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 20:29.58 | kingTD | ohh there is no zolden too |
| 20:33.37 | kingTD | okay, so now i need models |
| 20:36.57 | kingTD | okay, so EU ddosed |
| 20:37.56 | kingTD | and that sc2alpha creep looks quite nice too |
| 20:38.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 20:38.44 | kingTD | "Goa: Zolden 15 reaper > 9 sun idol" |
| 20:40.00 | kingTD | Zolden what models u have to share? |
| 20:44.36 | Zolden | kingTD what models I can share? you need morels? what mdoels u need? |
| 20:45.15 | kingTD | zombies, undead, humans, buildings, mages |
| 20:45.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 20:45.56 | Zolden | i can give you all except triceron's abut which you can ask him |
| 20:46.50 | duckies | zolden, just take all your models that are cool, put them in one big archive and attach it to your mapster thread, together with instructions on how to use them |
| 20:46.51 | kingTD | yeah, well i think i done that before and got nothing so.. |
| 20:46.53 | duckies | all easy =D |
| 20:47.30 | Zolden | ok, tomorrow |
| 20:47.40 | kingTD | hmm NA dont shows maps too |
| 20:47.53 | Zolden | bnet is fucked |
| 20:48.19 | Zolden | also, sun idol's damage is much higher than reaper's hp, so they are not effective vs reapers |
| 20:49.06 | kingTD | in team vs team is effective since that splash and shit |
| 20:49.42 | Zolden | one devastator destroys alot of reapers |
| 20:50.19 | kingTD | but, but goa cant win with sun idols :( |
| 20:51.28 | duckies | every time I look at M&M patch notes I see reaper health reduction :D |
| 20:54.28 | Zolden | also reapers damage frequently get reduced |
| 20:54.55 | Zolden | i was so desperatly trying to make ppl upgrade their shitty ghosts, so op'd the reapers |
| 20:55.20 | Zolden | anyway, gonna rush lots of list items into the recent update to concentrate on competition map |
| 20:56.35 | Zolden | what if i make 3 maps, upload them via different accounts and win 3 places to violate the rula that a mapmaker can only win once |
| 20:56.47 | duckies | I find those minus 3-4% damage fixes to be hilarious, but then again, your whole style of balancing quite something ^^ |
| 20:57.01 | duckies | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:57.05 | Zolden | 3% is alot |
| 20:57.16 | Zolden | i'll make that arcanoid + lemmings game |
| 20:57.22 | Zolden | and another one - haven't decided |
| 20:57.24 | Zolden | something fun |
| 20:57.33 | duckies | always a good plan =D |
| 20:58.16 | Zolden | i'll just play 20 most popular maps, combine them into something new and original and mapmake this monster |
| 20:58.47 | Zolden | evolution of everything is happening this way |
| 20:58.57 | Zolden | science, culture, biology, everything |
| 20:59.05 | duckies | every time I see that % update I think to myself "oh look reaper did 40 damage, and now he does 39, but instead of writing clear numbers I'm gonna post % so that nobody knows what the hell I did" :D |
| 20:59.41 | duckies | % are boring, it's like you hate ppl who read patch notes ;/ |
| 20:59.47 | Zolden | yea, you right |
| 21:00.20 | duckies | but hen again, we did nag you endlessly about them, so makes sense.. |
| 21:00.33 | Zolden | btw, i tired Dustin's smash tv, and there wasn't attack abil |
| 21:00.44 | duckies | =D |
| 21:00.49 | duckies | .yes |
| 21:00.56 | Zolden | it was so stupid/sumiliating to run from monsters being unable to kill them |
| 21:01.00 | Zolden | and then die |
| 21:01.22 | Ahli | it's called smash... why can't oyu smash things? |
| 21:01.24 | duckies | that was my first experience as well |
| 21:01.56 | duckies | he also gave your guy lots of armor.. so that he dies slooooowly |
| 21:02.09 | duckies | being killed by enemies with 2 attack speed ;/ |
| 21:02.26 | Zolden | it's very penis of him to do that |
| 21:02.47 | duckies | ^^ |
| 21:04.38 | kingTD | rq |
| 21:07.54 | Zolden | duckies http://i.snag.gy/qfjjk.jpg |
| 21:08.14 | Zolden | it's my comic |
| 21:08.24 | kingTD | so what u trying to say? :( |
| 21:08.38 | Zolden | duckies haven't seen it, so I linked |
| 21:08.57 | Zolden | spreading the word of trueth |
| 21:09.12 | duckies | chuckle-inducing gj |
| 21:12.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 21:23.03 | Bounty | Peow |
| 21:30.00 | Kenoli | http://i.snag.gy/33eZo.jpg |
| 21:35.36 | kingTD | no vodka no god |
| 21:37.55 | Bommes | pow pow bounty |
| 21:39.10 | Bommes | http://i.imgur.com/VnabqYs.jpg |
| 21:39.37 | Bounty | lol wtf |
| 21:46.15 | Ahli | it's about http://i.snag.gy/33eZo.jpg |
| 21:46.39 | Ahli | or http://i.snag.gy/qfjjk.jpg |
| 21:48.17 | Bommes | see? no one knows anymore who made it |
| 21:48.21 | Bommes | it's all blurry |
| 21:55.44 | Zolden | lol |
| 21:58.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (Raziel@2a01:388:201:4190:7591:bb9a:cadb:233e) |
| 22:12.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater916 (a2e889dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.232.137.220) |
| 22:15.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster maltenp (~maltenp@c-31e170d5.09-37-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:16.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zandose (Zandose@24-246-78-228.cable.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:20.29 | pirate | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0XOcNBytC8 |
| 22:20.51 | pirate | http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/47/229/HexGridHighlightingDemo.SC2Map |
| 22:21.43 | pirate | so that's been my last 3 days |
| 22:21.58 | MoonEater916 | what did u use to detect the cursor |
| 22:22.04 | MoonEater916 | unit highlighted on a periodic? |
| 22:22.42 | pirate | actors |
| 22:22.55 | pirate | actor event: UnitHighlightLocal |
| 22:23.06 | pirate | it works online with no latency |
| 22:23.17 | pirate | and after all of that I decided against using a hex system for my mod |
| 22:39.50 | kingTD | ^^ |
| 23:32.04 | Zandose | i havent been to kickstarter for a while. some pretty cool tech coming up |
| 23:49.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
