| 00:00.05 | Kueken | I did a reset to parent, after that it had the list again |
| 00:00.19 | drybonevalley | how does one go about doing that? heh |
| 00:00.25 | drybonevalley | i noob |
| 00:00.37 | Kueken | right-click the field, reset to parent |
| 00:00.49 | Kueken | maybe worded a little differently |
| 00:01.08 | drybonevalley | ah i see it |
| 00:01.46 | drybonevalley | weird still doesn't populate |
| 00:02.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-67-180-210-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:04.26 | drybonevalley | Would manually adding it have any wrong effect on the link? |
| 00:13.44 | DeadZergling | as long as you type it exactly right, see no harm there |
| 00:16.43 | drybonevalley | Hmm, was going about your suggestion from yesterday to use that modify player effect as the intial effect in my behavior to alter the cooldowns. Not working of course, so I was going about troubleshooting |
| 00:17.16 | DeadZergling | well, start simple |
| 00:17.25 | DeadZergling | make one ability, with one modify player effect |
| 00:17.33 | DeadZergling | and make it work |
| 00:17.53 | DeadZergling | then can move on to a set with 3 modify player effects |
| 00:17.56 | DeadZergling | etc |
| 00:18.44 | DeadZergling | if data just refuses to work, could easily have it use a dummy effect, then have triggers modify the catalog values of the cooldown values of the 3 abilities |
| 00:23.04 | drybonevalley | Ok, trying to get it working in data. Yesterday, I tried Necros trigger suggestion, but that only resulted in the cooldown being set to the value only once. |
| 00:25.40 | Necromoni | lol? |
| 00:25.50 | DeadZergling | he is saying your solution sucks Necromoni |
| 00:25.58 | Necromoni | it works if you do it right |
| 00:26.00 | Necromoni | hue |
| 00:26.20 | Necromoni | if he couldnt get the simple trigger to work, the data wont be any easier |
| 00:26.25 | Necromoni | *feelings* |
| 00:26.36 | DeadZergling | heh, just giving you crap Necromoni :) |
| 00:26.39 | Necromoni | lol |
| 00:26.51 | DeadZergling | is always multiple solutions to this sort of thing |
| 00:27.11 | Necromoni | yep |
| 00:28.09 | DeadZergling | patch 2.1 will be nice, have hordes of RPG friends I could get to test my map then from other games |
| 00:28.41 | drybonevalley | Heh didn't mean to shots fired, i may have goofed or failed to explain my condition |
| 00:29.17 | ArcanePariah | It's fine drybonevalley, the editor takes an enomorous time to get right, and software is arguably one of the most difficult endeavors of all time |
| 00:29.31 | ArcanePariah | Hence why so much of it fails or barely works |
| 00:29.44 | DeadZergling | naw, understanding the software pales in comparison to dealing with 3 kids at home |
| 00:30.01 | Necromoni | the edge |
| 00:30.07 | ArcanePariah | True, at least software does precisely what you tell it do, children... not so much |
| 00:30.22 | DeadZergling | fortunate that is true |
| 00:30.30 | DeadZergling | As I often wish from them to jump out the window |
| 00:30.35 | DeadZergling | and leave me alone |
| 00:30.38 | Necromoni | lol |
| 00:30.43 | Necromoni | arent u being |
| 00:30.48 | ArcanePariah | Looking back, I sometimes wonder how my parent survived me and my 2 sisters |
| 00:30.53 | ArcanePariah | parents* |
| 00:30.59 | Necromoni | survived with*? |
| 00:31.11 | Necromoni | or survived as in |
| 00:31.27 | ArcanePariah | Well, not with since both my sister no longer live at home and I am only here temporarily |
| 00:31.35 | DeadZergling | obviously you want them to do well, have a good life |
| 00:31.49 | DeadZergling | just I wish their good life was much, much further away from me sometimes |
| 00:32.35 | DeadZergling | gonna get better when they are older, and are less stupid |
| 00:32.40 | DeadZergling | is what I keep telling myself |
| 00:33.17 | drybonevalley | I got it somewhat working in Data, but it gave me the same result of when I attempted it with a trigger. So i'm probably derping somewhere/being bad. |
| 00:33.24 | Necromoni | are we allowed to use tf2 announcer sounds? |
| 00:33.47 | DeadZergling | what is this result, drybonevalley |
| 00:33.54 | Necromoni | What did you want again |
| 00:34.09 | Necromoni | Unit uses Ability, set cooldown of other abilities -1? |
| 00:34.11 | Necromoni | or to 1? |
| 00:34.23 | Necromoni | or was it as long as he has a behavior |
| 00:34.25 | Necromoni | its 1 |
| 00:34.28 | Necromoni | i dont remember |
| 00:34.34 | drybonevalley | What I want is that for the duration of the behavior for the cd to be say 1 |
| 00:35.05 | drybonevalley | Right now, when I do it, it intially will set it to 1 as soon as I activate the ability applying the behavior, but after that its still the normal value during the duration |
| 00:35.39 | Necromoni | is there an xml type thing for triggers like data? |
| 00:36.27 | Necromoni | Youll have to do |
| 00:36.31 | Necromoni | extra with the triggers |
| 00:36.49 | Necromoni | but i think dead zergling got u |
| 00:37.03 | DeadZergling | interesting, so the modify player one doesn't permanently alter it eh? |
| 00:37.17 | DeadZergling | Catalog value setting for you it is |
| 00:37.29 | Necromoni | i never used catalogs before |
| 00:37.34 | Necromoni | wouldve probably made my life ezier |
| 00:38.03 | DeadZergling | maybe, wouldn't have made your project type more funner to play |
| 00:38.32 | drybonevalley | nope, i have the one modify as the intial, and then the other as the final. So as you said , it does not permanently modify until the behavior expires |
| 00:38.32 | Necromoni | ha |
| 00:38.32 | Necromoni | knee slapping material inc |
| 00:38.34 | DeadZergling | well, here is what I would do given this info drybonevalley |
| 00:38.51 | DeadZergling | I would use the behavior still, and have 2 set effects |
| 00:39.01 | DeadZergling | AbilNameStart, and AbilNameEnd |
| 00:39.05 | DeadZergling | they do absolutely NOTHING |
| 00:39.14 | Necromoni | dummeh |
| 00:39.17 | DeadZergling | they are purely so the triggers can spot them |
| 00:39.33 | Necromoni | Unit uses abil, if unit has behavior set cd to 1 |
| 00:39.43 | DeadZergling | When AbilNameStart, use 3 set catalogs to set the cooldowns to 1 |
| 00:39.47 | Necromoni | just had to put it out there |
| 00:39.51 | DeadZergling | don't listen to Necromoni, that condition is not needed |
| 00:39.55 | DeadZergling | that is wasteful |
| 00:39.57 | Necromoni | lol |
| 00:40.01 | drybonevalley | lol |
| 00:40.10 | DeadZergling | the fact that the effect got used |
| 00:40.15 | DeadZergling | already says the behavior is on |
| 00:40.24 | Necromoni | but he has that problem |
| 00:40.33 | DeadZergling | *slaps Necromoni with a fish* |
| 00:40.36 | DeadZergling | quit confusing him |
| 00:40.41 | Necromoni | ok ok ok ok ok |
| 00:40.56 | DeadZergling | okay, so when the effect is AbilNameEnd |
| 00:41.04 | DeadZergling | you will use 3 different set catalogs |
| 00:41.08 | DeadZergling | to reset it back to the original |
| 00:41.19 | DeadZergling | there might be a reset function too, but this way be easier to copy paste |
| 00:42.18 | DeadZergling | So recapping, step 1, make behavior with initial effect AbilNameStart, and Final effect AbilNameEnd |
| 00:42.28 | DeadZergling | your ability will apply this behavior to the caster |
| 00:42.39 | DeadZergling | from there you are done in data |
| 00:42.47 | drybonevalley | ok got that |
| 00:43.00 | DeadZergling | Step 2, make a trigger with 2 events in it |
| 00:43.04 | DeadZergling | for those 2 effects |
| 00:43.28 | DeadZergling | If Effect was AbilNameStart, use catalogs to set the 3 to 1 |
| 00:43.40 | DeadZergling | If Effect was AbilNameEnd, use catalogs to set the 3 to what they originally were |
| 00:43.52 | DeadZergling | Step 3. ???? Step 4, Profit |
| 00:44.06 | Necromoni | damn |
| 00:44.14 | Necromoni | i was just gonna put *insert overused joke here* |
| 00:44.59 | DeadZergling | the set catalog thing in triggers can be a little daunting at first |
| 00:45.05 | DeadZergling | but it really isn't too bad |
| 00:45.15 | Necromoni | how do you do it |
| 00:45.21 | DeadZergling | the hard part is knowing exactly what to reference |
| 00:45.26 | DeadZergling | One step at a time Necromoni :) |
| 00:45.36 | drybonevalley | Alright Got the events of "effect used" |
| 00:45.40 | Necromoni | im not doing those steps before tho |
| 00:46.08 | DeadZergling | great, now you need an if/else statement |
| 00:46.29 | DeadZergling | something to the effect of, if effect was AbilNameStart, 3 catalogs to 1, else 3 catalogs to default |
| 00:46.58 | DeadZergling | you may want to use a if else if later if you get more effects, but for the time being if else is fine |
| 00:47.29 | DeadZergling | well necromoni, first thing is just make a set catalog value action |
| 00:48.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-67-180-210-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:48.25 | Necromoni | is this like data referencing |
| 00:48.29 | Necromoni | except in triggers |
| 00:49.11 | Necromoni | what goes in "Entry" |
| 00:50.18 | DeadZergling | second, not at the editor |
| 00:51.32 | DeadZergling | by the way, CTRL + D and the data editor in a second screen |
| 00:51.35 | DeadZergling | is helpful in knowing exactly what you want to reference |
| 00:52.09 | DeadZergling | okay so entry is what specific data thing you referencing |
| 00:52.15 | DeadZergling | so like if you had effect, MouseDamage |
| 00:52.23 | Necromoni | its the ID? |
| 00:52.32 | DeadZergling | would go something like, catalog effect, entry MouseDamage |
| 00:53.05 | DeadZergling | field path is where it can get confusing |
| 00:53.18 | DeadZergling | but not too bad with the way the gui is nowadays |
| 00:53.26 | Necromoni | that would be like behaviors modifications? |
| 00:53.29 | Necromoni | field? |
| 00:53.43 | Necromoni | where u need index? |
| 00:53.58 | Necromoni | I mean do you need index for something like the Buff Behavior's Modification field |
| 00:54.09 | Necromoni | or does it lead you |
| 00:54.33 | DeadZergling | right, the field can be varied |
| 00:54.42 | DeadZergling | like for Damage amount, it is just Amount |
| 00:54.46 | DeadZergling | but can get more complicated |
| 00:55.11 | DeadZergling | it leads you mostly, but you will need to use CTRL + D and look at it if you want the index |
| 00:55.24 | Necromoni | ah |
| 00:55.29 | DeadZergling | basically how index goes is, if there is say 3 values, will go 0, 1, 2, from top to bottom |
| 00:56.58 | DeadZergling | is kind of confusing the first few times, but it really does make a lot more sense after a few successess |
| 00:57.25 | Necromoni | so with this i could change up values in tooltips |
| 00:57.36 | Necromoni | and make countdowns on icons? |
| 00:57.53 | DeadZergling | sure, although for data tooltips |
| 00:58.00 | DeadZergling | I more recommend the use of dref fields |
| 00:58.05 | Necromoni | yea i use dref |
| 00:58.48 | Necromoni | well thanks for sharing that info |
| 00:58.49 | Necromoni | lol |
| 00:58.52 | DeadZergling | I use catalog sets for things like ability/weapon damage, ability/weapon reuse rates, leech amounts on weapons |
| 00:59.01 | drybonevalley | what's the function/preset supposed to be within the IF, can't seem to find a relevant one that looks like im making progress |
| 00:59.40 | Necromoni | AbilnameStart == triggering effect |
| 00:59.43 | DeadZergling | Hrrrmmm, should be something like |
| 01:00.05 | DeadZergling | Triggering effect == Effect Name |
| 01:00.16 | DeadZergling | so first, go to function |
| 01:00.34 | DeadZergling | sigh, I'm just being confusing, I'll start over :) |
| 01:00.40 | DeadZergling | Make a new condition |
| 01:00.51 | DeadZergling | Click that to change it |
| 01:01.03 | DeadZergling | look under function, looking for something like Triggering Effect |
| 01:01.11 | DeadZergling | let me know when you get that far |
| 01:01.16 | drybonevalley | triggering effect used? |
| 01:01.24 | DeadZergling | right |
| 01:01.42 | DeadZergling | what you want is to check if triggering effect used == AbilNameStart |
| 01:01.54 | drybonevalley | right on, have that set |
| 01:02.01 | DeadZergling | okay, now make a new action |
| 01:02.07 | DeadZergling | of type catalog set |
| 01:02.42 | drybonevalley | Field value or reference |
| 01:02.49 | DeadZergling | Catalog Field Value Set is the exact name i think |
| 01:03.32 | drybonevalley | ok I have that under the"then" |
| 01:03.38 | DeadZergling | okay |
| 01:03.56 | DeadZergling | so for the first field |
| 01:04.02 | DeadZergling | you want to find Ability |
| 01:04.09 | DeadZergling | think it is under preset |
| 01:04.26 | drybonevalley | yup set it to Abilities |
| 01:04.35 | DeadZergling | next field, whatever the name of one of your abilities is |
| 01:04.49 | drybonevalley | k |
| 01:05.03 | DeadZergling | then comes the confusing part, go to your data Editor |
| 01:05.14 | DeadZergling | and click on that ability |
| 01:05.20 | DeadZergling | and find the exact field where your cooldown is |
| 01:05.34 | DeadZergling | expand that out however you can, then press CTRL + D |
| 01:05.59 | DeadZergling | You want the third field to match that roughly |
| 01:06.23 | drybonevalley | the full long lname? |
| 01:06.26 | DeadZergling | what will happen is, you will pick one part, then it will pop open a new field for you to populate |
| 01:06.31 | drybonevalley | CAbilEffect etc |
| 01:06.58 | DeadZergling | right, I'd be a lot more useful if I had a screenshot of what you seeing right now |
| 01:07.02 | DeadZergling | I don't keep this stuff memorized, lol |
| 01:07.21 | DeadZergling | feel free to paste a screenshot of what you seeing |
| 01:07.40 | drybonevalley | k sec |
| 01:09.09 | DeadZergling | the good news is, once you get this one right, you can pretty much copy paste the others, only needing to change the abilname |
| 01:09.36 | JademusSreg | Zarglefarg. |
| 01:09.51 | DeadZergling | Hello Jade |
| 01:10.46 | drybonevalley | here my screen |
| 01:10.47 | drybonevalley | http://imgur.com/J2isYIO |
| 01:11.22 | DeadZergling | cool, one second |
| 01:12.24 | DeadZergling | so should be something like, AbilEffectCost (just find the closest match on the dropdown) |
| 01:12.27 | DeadZergling | then index 0 |
| 01:12.44 | DeadZergling | then Cooldown (again find the closest match on the dropdown) |
| 01:13.26 | DeadZergling | then I think TimeUse should be the last field |
| 01:13.44 | drybonevalley | Im editing the Field Path right? |
| 01:13.45 | DeadZergling | or it could be index 1, it is a lot easier when you are at the editor mind you :) |
| 01:13.50 | DeadZergling | correct |
| 01:13.54 | DeadZergling | this is the tricky part |
| 01:14.11 | DeadZergling | other ones are easy, can leave the other one as default, and just set the last part to 1 |
| 01:15.12 | DeadZergling | Anyways, once you got this one working right, can just copy paste twice |
| 01:15.18 | DeadZergling | change the abilname only |
| 01:15.25 | DeadZergling | and be done for the AbilStart part |
| 01:15.38 | DeadZergling | then copy paste the 3 into the else, then simply change the final values to their default cooldowns |
| 01:15.48 | DeadZergling | and should be all done |
| 01:16.58 | DeadZergling | By the way, your events is wrong |
| 01:17.05 | DeadZergling | change Player 1 to Any Player |
| 01:17.10 | DeadZergling | so this works for anyone with the ability |
| 01:17.54 | drybonevalley | Ok, I have these Catalog Field Path window open, on the value part looking for the appropriate drop down, under both scope/field dont see anything that would be similar to abileffect cost |
| 01:18.24 | DeadZergling | heh, send another shot with the dropdown open |
| 01:18.34 | drybonevalley | scopre or field |
| 01:18.38 | drybonevalley | or both |
| 01:18.50 | DeadZergling | just the section you having issues with |
| 01:21.36 | DeadZergling | your trigger section is so fresh and clean looking, mine is just a disaster |
| 01:22.15 | drybonevalley | ha, im pretty new to the editor so yea |
| 01:23.33 | drybonevalley | should be two here, this is what im currently looking at after clicking field path |
| 01:23.36 | drybonevalley | http://imgur.com/55twCP0,t3moVIc#0 |
| 01:24.18 | DeadZergling | is your ability instant or targeted, I'm thinking instant |
| 01:24.38 | drybonevalley | its an effect target |
| 01:24.58 | DeadZergling | okay, so you want Effect - Target |
| 01:25.04 | DeadZergling | for Scope |
| 01:25.40 | drybonevalley | k |
| 01:25.59 | DeadZergling | then for field you want a best fit value for what is in your data table |
| 01:26.08 | DeadZergling | if you aren't su re what that is, just show me the field dropdown, lol |
| 01:26.24 | drybonevalley | theres a second image there that has the field dropdown |
| 01:26.26 | DeadZergling | or ask someone who has access to the editor, as I currently do not :) |
| 01:26.28 | drybonevalley | or there should be at least |
| 01:26.55 | DeadZergling | that one won't be very useful since the scope is wrong |
| 01:27.19 | drybonevalley | I see Cost available in the dropdown |
| 01:27.36 | DeadZergling | right, see the field gets populated |
| 01:27.40 | DeadZergling | based on what scope you give it |
| 01:27.48 | drybonevalley | and now I see index and field |
| 01:28.00 | DeadZergling | right, so index 0 |
| 01:28.37 | drybonevalley | and field link im guessing? |
| 01:28.46 | DeadZergling | field should be TimeUse |
| 01:28.49 | DeadZergling | or something similar |
| 01:28.53 | Necromoni | i like his variables |
| 01:28.55 | drybonevalley | kk |
| 01:29.21 | drybonevalley | that variable is from two years ago lol when i was a wee lad |
| 01:29.38 | drybonevalley | anyways |
| 01:29.45 | DeadZergling | anyways, now set the last value to 1 |
| 01:29.50 | DeadZergling | in your action |
| 01:29.52 | DeadZergling | and try it out |
| 01:30.34 | DeadZergling | at the moment it will change it permanently, which is okay, we just want to make sure it is working |
| 01:31.41 | drybonevalley | alright ill give it ago, heres the statement Catalog - Set value of Abilities Fireball Cost[0].Cooldown.TimeUse for player (Triggering player) to "1" |
| 01:31.52 | DeadZergling | looks good to me |
| 01:32.27 | DeadZergling | if it doesn't work, I can always break open the text editor and find a catalog set in my map |
| 01:32.39 | DeadZergling | I know for a fact I change that exact value on some abils |
| 01:33.28 | drybonevalley | cool it works |
| 01:34.12 | DeadZergling | great, think you got it covered for the other parts? |
| 01:34.34 | drybonevalley | should be able to |
| 01:34.54 | DeadZergling | cool, welcome to a world Necromoni didn't know about for years! |
| 01:34.58 | drybonevalley | Now, my only question is |
| 01:35.15 | drybonevalley | What are the entire benefits of using catalogs, and when should they be used lol |
| 01:35.15 | Necromoni | years? |
| 01:35.25 | Necromoni | right |
| 01:35.37 | Necromoni | i have only start sc2 editor like summer last yr |
| 01:35.44 | Necromoni | had only started* |
| 01:36.02 | Kueken | drybonevalley: depends on the purpose and the alternatives |
| 01:36.05 | DeadZergling | well, benefit is it changes the value as if it was set to that the entire time, should be used when it is okay for ALL units to have that change made |
| 01:36.30 | DeadZergling | if you had marine A, and marine B though |
| 01:36.38 | DeadZergling | and only wanted it to work for Marine A |
| 01:36.40 | Kueken | all objects of one type and player that is |
| 01:36.43 | DeadZergling | a different approach would be required |
| 01:36.49 | Necromoni | plus the implication of it in this situation appears flawless |
| 01:37.03 | Necromoni | my method wouldve had some holes in it |
| 01:37.03 | Necromoni | xD |
| 01:37.29 | DeadZergling | just because you weren't in the editor |
| 01:37.38 | DeadZergling | doesn't mean you missed it any less |
| 01:37.42 | Kueken | catalog triggers are basically upgrades, but you can use them dynamically without having to mess with the data editor itself |
| 01:38.14 | DeadZergling | aye, behavior driven approaches are more needed if you need special crap to only happen for one unit |
| 01:38.34 | DeadZergling | Kueken is extremely knowledgeable about stuff if you can catch him on by the way, typically knows what he is talking about |
| 01:38.59 | ArcanePariah | However, some objects can only modifed via upgrades |
| 01:39.13 | Kueken | ArcanePariah: example? |
| 01:39.21 | ArcanePariah | Button - Hotkey |
| 01:39.22 | drybonevalley | I've seen his posts, very useful from the ones i've caught, he genius |
| 01:39.39 | ArcanePariah | Dustin tried with catalogs and failed, upgrades does it |
| 01:39.42 | Kueken | have to test that :D |
| 01:39.49 | DeadZergling | just enjoy learning that for now drybonevalley, don't let them confuse you :) |
| 01:39.50 | Kueken | thats a first for me |
| 01:39.57 | ArcanePariah | Also Actor stuff can be upgraded and even some Game UI object data |
| 01:40.06 | DeadZergling | is always special cases about frickin everything |
| 01:40.15 | ArcanePariah | There is quite a bit upgraddes covers and I think most of GameUI is probably locked off |
| 01:40.17 | ArcanePariah | from catalogs |
| 01:40.55 | DeadZergling | AP and Jade are the most likely to confuse you for fun btw :P |
| 01:41.02 | drybonevalley | lol |
| 01:41.10 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 01:41.11 | ArcanePariah | Hell, upgrades can even enhance the AI, by changing their Target Finds for abilities |
| 01:41.21 | ArcanePariah | Which is nice |
| 01:41.32 | DeadZergling | interesting, I've never been able to set a value by upgrade but not by catalog |
| 01:41.40 | DeadZergling | i've used upgrades to know what catalogs can touch in fact |
| 01:43.05 | DeadZergling | anyways, as nice as the excuse to slack off from my UI work has been |
| 01:43.16 | DeadZergling | need to get back to that, good luck with what you making drybonevalley :) |
| 01:43.19 | Kueken | actor stuff can be catalog'ed as well |
| 01:43.24 | drybonevalley | thanks for the help :D |
| 01:43.28 | Kueken | nvm was scrolled up |
| 01:44.21 | ArcanePariah | But yes, catalogs are nice, but are really meant for 1 off instances of chainging things, if you need to change multiple things at once, better to use upgrades |
| 01:45.03 | DeadZergling | *coughs* not if the changes involve formulas of any kind |
| 01:45.44 | Kueken | ^ |
| 01:46.10 | Kueken | I used dynamic catalog systems quite a lot for various tasks |
| 01:46.30 | ArcanePariah | True, but that is the entire separating aspect of data vs triggers, triggers is for dynamic, data for static |
| 01:47.19 | DeadZergling | Upgrades are for people who fail at catalog setting, I refuse to ever go back |
| 01:47.53 | ArcanePariah | Or for people who have levels of static upgrades and moreover, want to bundle them into a single unit with a research ability |
| 01:48.14 | Necromoni | o.o |
| 01:48.15 | Necromoni | u mean |
| 01:48.17 | Necromoni | upgrades as in] |
| 01:48.21 | Necromoni | the data type |
| 01:48.24 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 01:48.27 | Necromoni | or upgrades as in the usage |
| 01:48.29 | Necromoni | ok |
| 01:48.36 | Necromoni | cuz i use upgrades but i do it with abilities |
| 01:48.37 | Necromoni | lol |
| 01:49.09 | Kueken | ArcanePariah: No problem at all changing the hotkey via catalog |
| 01:50.58 | ArcanePariah | Hmm, guess it wasn't working for w/e reason before, still, upgrades and data in general I tend to favor, since relatively few things REQUIRE a dynamic solution. The only time I see catalog writes being used heavily to avoid making a large number of upgrades, or avoiding the fact that upgrade levels stack various things multiplicatively |
| 01:51.34 | Kueken | yep, avoiding data clutter is a reason for me as well |
| 01:51.40 | DeadZergling | I have used upgrades before, I have also cleaned unspeakable things in a public restroom |
| 01:51.55 | DeadZergling | I prefer cleaning unspeakable things in a public restroom over upgrades. |
| 01:52.02 | DeadZergling | is just how it is for me, lol |
| 01:52.33 | Kueken | if I have the choice of making one upgrade per unit for like 50 unit types or compress it neatly into a single function call which just takes the ID of the unit, I'd do the latter anytime |
| 01:52.34 | Necromoni | hahahaha |
| 01:58.40 | ArcanePariah | Mmhmm |
| 01:59.51 | ArcanePariah | In general, one should aim for the most developmentally quickest method, since dev time is the most precious. However, good design should come well before code is written, lest you be trapped by poor design later, forcing an even greater expedinture of time as you reinvent most of the wheel |
| 02:01.17 | DeadZergling | indeed, part of my reinventing of the wheel was the death of a great many upgrade fields in data for me |
| 02:02.55 | DeadZergling | calculations done in upgrades involving anything other than set, +, or - |
| 02:03.00 | DeadZergling | get fucked right up the ass |
| 02:03.22 | ArcanePariah | Oh? |
| 02:03.30 | DeadZergling | yea, they are terribly inconsisent |
| 02:03.42 | DeadZergling | doing fun things like resetting, having completely wrong values, etc |
| 02:04.12 | ArcanePariah | Odd |
| 02:04.33 | DeadZergling | yea, so more tedious + wrong values all over |
| 02:04.37 | DeadZergling | that is what upgrades are for me |
| 02:26.05 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-088-078-138-142.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:35.17 | Necromoni | Anyone know why my text preview doesnt work |
| 02:35.51 | Necromoni | when im trying to set texts i cant see how it looks in the preview unless i change its color or style |
| 03:00.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster rts (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 03:15.54 | JademusSreg | ??? |
| 03:30.26 | Kueken | !! |
| 03:35.28 | ArcanePariah | $ |
| 03:35.42 | ArcanePariah | So 2.1 tomorrow |
| 03:35.54 | ArcanePariah | Yippee |
| 04:42.29 | JademusSreg | Woo. |
| 04:42.38 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 04:42.58 | ArcanePariah | Anything new and bizzarre for you? |
| 04:43.38 | JademusSreg | Just mentally designing a combination of RTS/tabletop wargame/CCG. |
| 04:43.53 | ArcanePariah | So... you're insane then? |
| 04:43.59 | JademusSreg | Well, minus the collectible and card parts of CCG. |
| 04:44.00 | ArcanePariah | Sounds about right :D |
| 04:44.37 | ArcanePariah | Well isn't a table top basically CCG + RTS minues the R part? |
| 04:44.50 | ArcanePariah | minus* |
| 04:46.15 | JademusSreg | More dreadful part of RTS is the economic stuff. Tabletop wargames work great in their medium, but suffer pacing issues without extra junk slowing the pacing. By using borrowing the notion of deck-building from CCGs, it mitigates the pacing issues of an all-force-no-economy RTS. |
| 04:47.06 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but isn't that basically WH40k, since you could collect/build your army based on a given faction? |
| 04:47.14 | JademusSreg | One composes ones army as one would a deck, and the reinforcements are made available incrementally with a requisition cost. |
| 04:47.23 | ArcanePariah | So "build" and then no macro involved, just pure combat |
| 04:47.36 | ArcanePariah | So you are looking to combined MTG with DoW |
| 04:47.53 | JademusSreg | The incremental reinforcements smooth the pacing without the burden of economic management. |
| 04:49.52 | ArcanePariah | Hmm, would be interesting and I would approach it similar to what I'm doing with NotD 2, 2 game variants, 1 that is single player solely for customizing, and then another for the actual gameplay/combat |
| 04:50.12 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 04:50.15 | JademusSreg | Precisely. |
| 04:50.35 | ArcanePariah | So people can comfortably customize their army, then save to bank, and then load that profile on main game variant launching |
| 04:57.22 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so techincal question that I have never quite figured out... How does Use Calldown work in tandem with magazines? |
| 04:57.57 | ArcanePariah | Is Use Calldown a way of giving a charge limit to an ability that has the charges stored elsewhere, possibly among many other units? |
| 04:59.15 | ArcanePariah | Ok, I think I better understand it, it is a way of using magazine units from an external source |
| 05:00.23 | ArcanePariah | Interesting enough, it seems the Source unit of such an ability is the unit from the magazine |
| 05:03.17 | JademusSreg | Yes, they are weird. |
| 05:04.13 | ArcanePariah | Magazines seem to be a way of storing units in another unit, and the Use Magazine and Use Calldown are the 2 methods to directly and indirectly access said sotred units |
| 05:05.47 | ArcanePariah | The crucial field for abilites is the Calldown Effect field, it is what I think links the ability to the Magazine and thus letting it know which magazines to draw upon |
| 05:12.20 | JademusSreg | Yep. |
| 05:17.37 | JademusSreg | Use Calldown is probably ideal when the charge link is player/global. |
| 05:17.47 | JademusSreg | *charge link's scope |
| 05:20.03 | ArcanePariah | Probably, but also, Use Calldown is damm useful for storage and release of units, they need not die. I'm going to assume Use Calldown is the basis for the upgrade in WoL campaign that let you drop Barracks units at the rally point |
| 05:20.17 | ArcanePariah | And it need not be charges |
| 05:20.53 | ArcanePariah | For example, tying back to your earlier idea, a magazine ability would be perfect for the deployment stage of the game idea you are thinking of |
| 05:21.02 | ArcanePariah | Intital trigger would simply pre arm all magazines |
| 05:21.15 | JademusSreg | WoL campaign used a different approach. |
| 05:21.18 | ArcanePariah | And a single unit and ability could control all deployments |
| 05:22.12 | ArcanePariah | Would make it more realistic since most WH40K factions deployed from a super ship of some kind (Necron Monoliths, Space Marine Battle Barges, Chaos Rifts, Eldar Webway) |
| 05:22.32 | ArcanePariah | And that is odd they used a different approach |
| 05:22.46 | ArcanePariah | Unless the train ability had the capability built in to do it |
| 05:23.08 | JademusSreg | Create at Rally or some such, yes. |
| 05:23.49 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 05:23.57 | ArcanePariah | It has a Location field, Source or Rally |
| 05:24.04 | JademusSreg | Anyway, I'm currently thinking randomized queue to best emulate the deck mechanics. |
| 05:24.23 | ArcanePariah | IE, randomzied order of unit deployments? |
| 05:24.30 | JademusSreg | I should clarify. |
| 05:26.05 | JademusSreg | One builds one's army as one builds a deck. Reinforcements are made available in the same way cards are drawn from the deck to populate one's hand. Reinforcements are selected and deployed from this available set at the cost of requisition, as one one play cards from one's hand. |
| 05:26.42 | JademusSreg | Haven't quite decided one interface position, but I imagine the "hand" may be displayed along the top. |
| 05:26.49 | JademusSreg | *decided on |
| 05:27.41 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, gotcha, then yeah, an Arm Magazine ability with autocast set, using population caps to control what one can deploy, and ones "deck" building determines which Magaizine units get armed, and how many times |
| 05:28.01 | ArcanePariah | So one Arm Magazine ability for each faction |
| 05:29.30 | JademusSreg | One possible, efficient approach. Once the design is further, I can consider approaches. |
| 05:30.09 | ArcanePariah | True, I am basically spectulatively doing implementations, basically mental prototyping, to get a better feel for the task |
| 05:31.13 | JademusSreg | I'm currently in the most abstract, stimulating phase of the design, parameterizing the game with respect to time. |
| 05:42.14 | Kueken | I would propose a new drinking game |
| 05:42.32 | Kueken | every time Jade uses a fancy word, we take a shot |
| 05:46.15 | ArcanePariah | Too expensive |
| 05:46.45 | JademusSreg | You'd scarcely retain cogizance of your phalanges indulging in such ludic frivolity for even a minute. |
| 05:48.13 | JademusSreg | The trajectory of your vision would form negating sigmoid waves. |
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| 05:53.24 | Kueken | I discovered a weak point in my game |
| 05:53.30 | Kueken | just emptys the bottle |
| 05:54.09 | JademusSreg | Nerf alcohol, buff liver and kidneys, pls |
| 05:58.41 | ArcanePariah | Hopefully some kind soul will either invent Synthahol or learn to clone liver/kidneys. I'm counting more on the latter |
| 06:07.29 | ArcanePariah | So fun little trivia thing, why does virtually every culture have some form of alcohol? |
| 06:09.09 | ArcanePariah | cricket |
| 06:09.29 | turtles1 | Because it's easy to make and occurs naturally around the world? |
| 06:10.31 | ArcanePariah | Those are factors, but most of all, for ages, it was safe to drink |
| 06:10.42 | ArcanePariah | Whereas water, for the most part, was not |
| 06:11.34 | ArcanePariah | Typical water supply throughout the ages had plenty of fun nasty stuff in them, whereas alcohol by its very nature is sterlie |
| 06:12.08 | turtles1 | true. Although wouldn't it have to be pretty strong to be considered sterile? |
| 06:12.17 | ArcanePariah | Nope |
| 06:12.33 | turtles1 | Ever try quenching your thirst by drinking alcohol? It does not have good consequences |
| 06:12.34 | ArcanePariah | For the same reason it doesn't take much soap to kill off bacteria |
| 06:12.39 | turtles1 | ok |
| 06:12.41 | turtles1 | cool |
| 06:13.16 | ArcanePariah | TL;Dr, most organism are highly highly sensitive to pH changes |
| 06:13.32 | ArcanePariah | Chagne the pH by more then 1, and you can easily kill off a ton of stuff |
| 06:13.59 | ArcanePariah | Also, alcohol in the past was not distilled, so it was no where near as strong as todays stuff |
| 06:14.05 | ArcanePariah | So far less of a dehydration effect |
| 06:14.28 | JademusSreg | Would have answered, but am busy. |
| 06:14.40 | turtles1 | busy drinking alcohol? |
| 06:14.49 | ArcanePariah | Nah, that's Kueken atm |
| 06:14.53 | turtles1 | I'm onto you |
| 06:15.06 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg induced a full bottle onto Kueken, or at least the rest of one |
| 06:15.59 | ArcanePariah | But yeah, typical alcohol in the past was maybe 0.5% by volume, so it would take a ton to even get buzzed, let alone drunk |
| 06:16.44 | Kueken | 't wasch at leascht tschree quartersch |
| 06:16.49 | ArcanePariah | Whereas today it can be as high as 50% |
| 06:16.56 | Kueken | *burp* |
| 06:17.06 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 06:17.11 | ArcanePariah | English please :D |
| 06:17.19 | ArcanePariah | Not Alcglish |
| 06:17.33 | turtles1 | Where did they get it from? town merchant selling drinking water to the whole town? |
| 06:17.44 | Kueken | absinth goes as high as 80% right? |
| 06:18.05 | ArcanePariah | turtles1, they brewed it, and just did standard fermentation |
| 06:18.27 | Kueken | also I like some cask strength whiskys with ~60% |
| 06:18.33 | Kueken | yummy |
| 06:18.37 | turtles1 | So, each familly effectively had a brewery? |
| 06:18.45 | ArcanePariah | One notable one is the typical drink of the Scandenavian countries, Mead, whih is derived from honey. This is notable since honey is basically impossible to spoil |
| 06:18.53 | Kueken | each family hat some rotten fruit :D |
| 06:19.09 | ArcanePariah | Possibly, many families were farmers, would not havetaken much to do your own |
| 06:19.35 | ArcanePariah | Any culture advanced enough to store food could do it |
| 06:19.59 | turtles1 | water + rotten fruit = drinking water. bleh, thankyou modern day water treatment plants |
| 06:20.18 | ArcanePariah | Welp, it was either that or dysentary :P |
| 06:21.17 | JademusSreg | Booze is a great source of potable water during a cholera outbreak, lauded for its social lubricant properties, and has historically facilitated much of philosophy. |
| 06:21.48 | turtles1 | What about boiled water? |
| 06:22.13 | JademusSreg | Boiled water is a terrible lubricant. |
| 06:22.22 | ArcanePariah | Boiled water takes enomouros energy |
| 06:22.33 | ArcanePariah | Whereas alcohol is a natural process |
| 06:22.47 | ArcanePariah | Thus relatively little energy to drive it, it merely requires guidance |
| 06:24.28 | ArcanePariah | Also alcohol in ones diet could probably remedy other issues of the day that boiled water could not (sanatize a wound for instance, better that then amputation) |
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| 06:24.34 | Bounty | Pew |
| 06:25.04 | turtles1 | I've camped places where you can just stick your face in a river and drink from it. But generally I'd rather make a fire and have clean water then drink rotten fruit water |
| 06:25.26 | Kueken | but while alcohol might be beneficial in ficting certain diseases, it certainly helps spreading others |
| 06:25.34 | Kueken | mostly sdts, of course |
| 06:25.36 | JademusSreg | (Using the potential energy of the molecules and microbes involved in the fermentation metabolic process is far more efficient than burning fuel to heat water alone. Sealing it also helps prevent recontamination.) |
| 06:25.38 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 06:25.39 | turtles1 | although in a whole town i guess firewood becomes sparse over time |
| 06:26.09 | Kueken | *std |
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| 06:43.15 | JademusSreg | Z'graug'lr. |
| 06:49.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91-82-140-113.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:05.33 | JademusSreg | For Goa, who also enjoys cosmological stuff: http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/01/quasar-illuminates-a-cosmic-filament-and-a-mystery/ |
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| 07:25.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
| 07:35.14 | Zolden | kingTD cops destroyed the catapult! |
| 07:40.37 | JademusSreg | ??? |
| 07:41.47 | kingTD | order to build siege tower! |
| 07:57.36 | Zolden | JademusSreg rioting ppl constructed a catapult to use vs cops, but cops attacked, destroyed the catapult and retreated back to positions |
| 07:58.41 | turtles1 | where? |
| 07:59.41 | JademusSreg | Dumb; catapults are used against stationary fortifications, not infantry. |
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| 08:03.55 | Ahli | oh, and I can reach the page again :) |
| 08:11.02 | Zolden | turtles1 in ukraine |
| 08:13.15 | Zolden | JademusSreg most of things rioters do is throwing rocks and fire bottles into cops, so they thought it will be more effective with a catapult - better range |
| 08:18.03 | G0A | that 2 cop fucked hard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3treka6z1tI |
| 08:18.08 | Zolden | interesting: does missile consume less computations as a unit? |
| 08:18.49 | JademusSreg | If range is the objective, they'd be better off with caltrops, remote-control delivery, crossbows, ballista, high-tension wires, high-voltage wires, infrastructural damage. |
| 08:18.53 | Zolden | what if we use missile with invinite lifetime and 0 speed as a dummy unit, will it still be as laggy as a normal unit if we place 5k of them on a map? |
| 08:20.00 | JademusSreg | Missile movers probably use fewer resources since they don't need to calculate pathing. |
| 08:20.21 | JademusSreg | But otherwise they'll use about the same amount of memory. |
| 08:20.35 | Zolden | alright |
| 08:27.03 | Zolden | JademusSreg so, you now got hooked by HS too? |
| 08:32.44 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-088-076-011-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:33.12 | JademusSreg | Dunno. I appreciate its design. |
| 08:33.54 | JademusSreg | It's designed to be just painful enough to encourage using real money, without necessitating it. |
| 08:36.35 | JademusSreg | The gameplay is accessible, the interface very readable, with cute extra flourishes of interactivity. |
| 08:37.54 | JademusSreg | Many features on the board are clickable; for instance, the gryphon will sometimes turn its head to track the cursor or screech when clicked. |
| 08:39.49 | Zolden | will people be able to not only spend real money, but also win them? |
| 08:40.19 | G0A | nope |
| 08:40.20 | JademusSreg | Hm, nope, haha. |
| 08:40.20 | Zolden | also, can that "painful enough to encourage using real money" thing be applied to arcade maps? |
| 08:40.37 | G0A | nope:) |
| 08:40.44 | JademusSreg | Perhaps, remains to be seen, given the lack of a market. |
| 08:41.19 | G0A | so, how your donation button going on Zolden?:D |
| 08:41.46 | Zolden | kingTD said that totalbisquit said that someone said that the "sc2 is now free for all" patch will be released on this thursday |
| 08:42.39 | Zolden | G0A doing ok, could be better |
| 08:51.00 | JademusSreg | Goa, catch my earlier link? |
| 08:54.11 | G0A | yeah |
| 08:55.52 | G0A | By the way I am still not convinced that dark matter is a thing. |
| 08:58.02 | Zolden | how else would you explain bigger mass/gravity of galaxies? |
| 09:02.52 | JademusSreg | Dark matter is a thing insofar it is the placeholder for a thing; its existence is infered by its effects on observable matter. |
| 09:03.28 | Zolden | yea |
| 09:05.22 | Zolden | G0A new rick and morty episode available! |
| 09:06.56 | G0A | ahh |
| 09:07.01 | G0A | also new Archer |
| 09:08.19 | G0A | JademusSreg sadly most people dont get that part. |
| 09:08.24 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 09:09.23 | G0A | would be fun if it would turn out that its just some observational mistake |
| 09:10.00 | Zolden | it's like when people thought that heat is a matter named heatogene |
| 09:12.19 | JademusSreg | Exceedingly unlikely, since it would need to be a series of mistakes so consistent as to merit its own scientific study. "Cosmologists discover Universe is a mischevious dick; douchons discovered as source of observational anamolies" |
| 09:17.30 | G0A | Not really |
| 09:23.12 | JademusSreg | Yarly; for dark matter to be dismissed as an error in observation, the numerous observations demonstrating behavior not explained by the standard model alone which dark matter theory functions to satisfy would all need to be mistakes. The otherwise inexplicable way in which some galaxies rotate uniformally as opposed to twisted, for instance. |
| 09:26.14 | Bommes | I find dark energy to be the much more interesting observation |
| 09:26.15 | G0A | observational and modeling errors:D |
| 09:28.02 | G0A | well yeah, its highly unlikely |
| 09:28.22 | JademusSreg | Haha, sure, not to say it's impossible, but for all of the observations to be consistently in error, it's exceedingly unlikely. Discovery of such a thing would be significant by itself, and would lead to further discovery of new physics which account for such wide-spread, systematic error. |
| 09:28.32 | Zolden | i think all this topics are particulars, while there are 2 most interesting questions: how universe emerged, and how consciousness emerged |
| 09:30.31 | Zolden | if they realize that that was only observation errors, it will not only ruin the dark matter hypothesis, it will ruin theory of relativity and other theories which are based on astronomical observations |
| 09:31.00 | G0A | JademusSreg its just that dark matter is around since so long and so much time invested into its research and there is still no good theory for it or direct observation. So people have to wonder every possibility.) |
| 09:31.31 | G0A | Zolden you cant know what kind of error it will be |
| 09:31.41 | G0A | or errors |
| 09:31.43 | JademusSreg | Hah. Perhaps "errons" are at fault. |
| 09:32.27 | JademusSreg | Or worse, magic. If a wizard did it... |
| 09:33.37 | G0A | Yeah, it will turn out that actually aliens shape galaxies and spin them as they like it.) |
| 09:34.44 | G0A | cause they wasnt satisfied the huge galaxy year, so they made it spin faster, so they could live more galaxy years:) |
| 09:36.04 | G0A | "how universe emerged, and how consciousness emerged" these questions seems more emotional than relevant. |
| 09:36.17 | Zolden | or they jsut wanted to prank their alien girlfriends so they get giddy |
| 09:36.43 | Bommes | every question ever asked is emotional |
| 09:37.08 | G0A | 1+1? |
| 09:37.32 | Bommes | doesn't mean they are not relevant |
| 09:37.40 | Bommes | because relevant is relative |
| 09:39.52 | G0A | Okey |
| 09:41.42 | G0A | Once you explain how universe emerged you are left with explaining how that emerged universe have emerged. And consciousness seems very relevant for people because their ego over the rest of the known universe. (maybe (probably) there is highest consciousness than our "consciousness") |
| 09:43.25 | Bommes | What do you mean with the part "(maybe (probably) there is highest consciousness than our "consciousness")"? |
| 09:43.43 | Zolden | universe' emergance explanation will be for physics like like a shining star for christmas tree |
| 09:44.09 | JademusSreg | Universe: contained within a singularity, external causative antecedents cannot be known. Consciousness: self-modeling computation |
| 09:44.25 | Zolden | and self-consciousness is rather theory of information related question then psychology related |
| 09:46.00 | Zolden | JademusSreg self-modelling may be automatical, like a bipedal robot that maintain balance no 2 legs, he has a model of himself in 3d environment, but it doesn't make him consciousness |
| 09:46.51 | JademusSreg | Processing the state of a thing is not modeling of the thing. |
| 09:47.14 | Zolden | r u sure? |
| 09:47.52 | Zolden | where is difference between consciousness and a robot that preventing falling down |
| 09:47.53 | G0A | If you discover that some of the planets have life with consciousness then the question "how consciousness emerged" will get less relevant fast. |
| 09:47.59 | JademusSreg | Imagine what it is to be an insect. |
| 09:49.22 | Zolden | G0A There is no question about "are humans the only conscious race in the universe". THey are not for sure. Consciousness can be created via evolution, and evolution is the process all matter is involved into |
| 09:49.26 | Bommes | insects are really complicated though |
| 09:49.52 | Zolden | the question is how to imitate what evolution did to humans, but inside of computers |
| 09:50.10 | Zolden | even a bacterial is unbelievably complicated |
| 09:50.18 | Bommes | better imagine you are this white bloodcell chasing motherfucking bacteria all day long http://i.imgur.com/evbANd8.gif |
| 09:52.33 | Zolden | need to reboot ;/ |
| 09:54.03 | G0A | Bommes that looks like a cool game to make:D |
| 09:54.29 | kingTD | there already are such |
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| 10:30.18 | JademusSreg | Magazines may prove useful for this idea. |
| 10:40.14 | Zolden | how to add reverberation via data for a sound? |
| 10:40.19 | Zolden | does it work? |
| 10:40.30 | JademusSreg | Sure. |
| 10:40.41 | Zolden | can you lead me, waht exactly to do? |
| 10:40.57 | Zolden | I have a shitty dry pew sound sound, need to add some reverb |
| 10:41.35 | Zolden | I'd liek to create a big loud echo to notice that it works |
| 10:41.42 | JademusSreg | What's your prefered approach? |
| 10:41.43 | Zolden | then i'll adjust it |
| 10:42.07 | Zolden | there's sound data entry, there are some reverberation related fields |
| 10:42.20 | Zolden | I want to know how to modify them to create some reverberation |
| 10:43.24 | JademusSreg | Should use DSP. |
| 10:43.46 | Zolden | wwhat's dsp? |
| 10:43.50 | Zolden | in what field is it? |
| 10:44.10 | Zolden | there are 4 reverb related fields |
| 10:44.47 | JademusSreg | iirc, the actor employing the sound can apply digital sound processing or whatever to it. Code can do it too. |
| 10:45.32 | JademusSreg | There are a lot of standard reverbs in the DSP data type, but it can do much more, many different types. |
| 10:47.01 | Zolden | ok, how to add reverb via sound actor? |
| 10:47.48 | Zolden | i'd actually would rather prefer to use sound data |
| 10:47.49 | JademusSreg | Actor message SoundAddDSP |
| 10:47.58 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 10:48.04 | Zolden | because I plan to use it in action actor |
| 10:48.20 | Zolden | or action actor can have that add dsp message? |
| 10:49.08 | JademusSreg | That's easy; the action actor just uses sound actors for its sounds. |
| 10:49.50 | Zolden | ok, let's see |
| 10:50.11 | JademusSreg | Specifically, GenericAttackSound GenericAttackLaunchSound GenericAttackImpactSound GenericAttackDamageSound GenericAttackLaunchTerrainSquibSound GenericAttackImpactTerrainSquibSound GenericAttackDamageTerrainSquibSound |
| 10:57.27 | Zolden | so, i just put my sound actor to the launch sound field? |
| 10:57.58 | JademusSreg | Yeah, and it uses your custom sound actor to play it, tada. |
| 10:58.28 | Zolden | hmm, doesn't work |
| 10:58.33 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 10:58.38 | Zolden | should sound actor have create message? |
| 10:59.16 | Zolden | i created sound actor, put there effect message, put this actor into attack action's launch sound field |
| 10:59.30 | JademusSreg | This should be informative: <CActorSound id="GenericAttackSound" parent="SoundOneShot"> |
| 10:59.40 | JademusSreg | Inherit from GenericAttackSound, haha |
| 11:06.33 | Zolden | nope, inheriting from generic attack launch sound/generic attack sound didn't work either |
| 11:09.44 | G0A | Dammit Rick and Morty was epic again |
| 11:09.51 | Zolden | so just added effect->create message to sound actor and fuck the action actor in the execution hole |
| 11:10.22 | Zolden | G0A i had no fucing doubt, fuckers know waht they doing |
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| 11:18.18 | Zolden | JademusSreg should I simply add actor creation -> SoundAddDSP ... event? |
| 11:18.25 | Zolden | because i don't hear any difference |
| 11:18.51 | Zolden | I even replaced sound done -> destroy to sound done -> timer -> destroy to give it time to play reverberation |
| 11:18.58 | Zolden | but i hear no difference |
| 11:20.53 | JademusSreg | Zol, paste all the relevant xml? |
| 11:21.24 | Zolden | ok |
| 11:23.47 | Zolden | JademusSreg http://pastebin.com/JfV9tJEG |
| 11:24.22 | JademusSreg | Horrifying. =D |
| 11:24.41 | JademusSreg | I'll paste an outline of actor xml I expect should work. |
| 11:25.07 | Zolden | ok |
| 11:32.27 | JademusSreg | I haven't tested or even validated this, but this is basically what it would look like (sound value for launch not configured): http://hastebin.com/sapinukoko.xml |
| 11:34.11 | JademusSreg | A custom sound inheriting from GenericAttackSound with an event to apply the reverb DSP, and the action actor configured to use the custom sound actor to contain the sound you configure for the launch. |
| 11:34.52 | Zolden | why container sound, why not launch sound? |
| 11:35.15 | Zolden | also, that SoundAddDSP doesn't sound to work |
| 11:36.04 | JademusSreg | Oh, sorry, both ContainerSound and LaunchSound should be set, but you're right, LaunchSound is what matters, my error. |
| 11:37.22 | JademusSreg | I'll open the editor, see how it needs to be configured. |
| 11:37.47 | Zolden | setting both of them doesn't make them work either |
| 11:38.31 | Zolden | but it's not the main issue, i don't mind playing sound via create message, but reverb message doesn't affect how the sound sounds |
| 11:39.12 | JademusSreg | No worries, this is getting my direct attention. =D |
| 11:39.18 | Zolden | alright |
| 11:44.00 | JademusSreg | If I don't solve it within the next few minutes, I'll handle it when I get back in an hour or so. |
| 11:45.15 | Zolden | ok |
| 11:47.11 | JademusSreg | I think it's working, but will need to conduct more tests when I return. |
| 11:47.12 | JademusSreg | bbl |
| 11:50.40 | G0A | why the fuck prepare time doesnt work for effect instant ability |
| 11:50.45 | G0A | I am missing something hmm |
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| 12:10.05 | Zolden | cats vs dogs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhndxdxyCCc |
| 12:14.42 | Bommes | re |
| 12:14.59 | Bommes | isn't there a specific reverb field in the sound data? |
| 12:15.24 | Zolden | yea, but that stuff doesn't sound to work either |
| 12:16.44 | Bommes | hm, last time I tried it did |
| 12:16.46 | Bommes | iric |
| 12:16.47 | Bommes | iirc |
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| 12:31.14 | Bommes | the reverb field definitely works |
| 12:31.34 | Bommes | mind though that the sound itself is not changed, for example the length, so if the sound is a second long it will stay a second long after the reverb is added |
| 12:31.38 | Zolden | waht values should I set to hear it? |
| 12:31.40 | Bommes | it's not like an echo effect or something |
| 12:31.54 | Bommes | just max it? and use the ingame preview in the editor |
| 12:32.06 | Zolden | waht field to max? |
| 12:32.11 | Bommes | reverb balance |
| 12:33.24 | Zolden | set it to 1000, no change |
| 12:33.40 | Zolden | i lesten it in the sound assets+ field |
| 12:34.09 | Bommes | it definitely changes ^^ maybe try a different sound effect like the voice ones |
| 12:34.16 | Bommes | or get new headphones |
| 12:34.33 | Zolden | 0:1000 |
| 12:34.34 | Zolden | right? |
| 12:34.37 | Zolden | this value? |
| 12:34.56 | Bommes | 1000:1000 is fine too |
| 12:35.01 | Bommes | but 0:1000 should be audible difference as well |
| 12:36.09 | Zolden | try -10000:1000 |
| 12:36.16 | Zolden | it doesn't produce sound |
| 12:36.32 | Zolden | because the sound is down, while reverb component is empty |
| 12:36.51 | Zolden | so it's empty even if the sound is there |
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| 12:37.54 | Bommes | yeah the first value is the direct reverb component |
| 12:38.31 | Bommes | so I guess the balance for that effects the original sound since that is where it is coming from |
| 12:39.08 | Bommes | tbh if you want a good reverb effect you should do it outside of the editor since it is not an audio program |
| 12:40.36 | Zolden | i only want a proof that reverb can be defined in the editor |
| 12:40.43 | Zolden | for now i hear nothing |
| 12:40.58 | Zolden | if it has reverb stuff, it shoud work |
| 12:42.27 | Bommes | what can I say |
| 12:42.29 | JademusSreg | Bzzt, that's not an answer, it's a diversion. =D |
| 12:42.53 | Bommes | for me it does |
| 12:43.30 | Bommes | it's not very impressive, but it does work |
| 12:43.51 | JademusSreg | Yep, tested, my actor approach works. |
| 12:44.39 | Zolden | JademusSreg do you use it for launch+damage? |
| 12:45.06 | JademusSreg | I modified the MarineAttack action actor to use a custom sound actor with the actor event to add DSP, and compared it to a WarPig which uses a setup identical to the standard Marine attack. |
| 12:46.20 | JademusSreg | And just to be certain, I used ReverbDrugged, one of the few DSP reverbs with a positive RoomHF value (default is -10000). |
| 12:49.44 | JademusSreg | So yeah, my approach works, just need to find or define a Reverb DSP that is satisfactory. |
| 12:50.43 | Zolden | JademusSreg yeah, the drugged one worked, but can it sound while the sound is done? for now it disappears immediately when the sound is done |
| 12:50.52 | Zolden | so it doesn't sound cool |
| 12:51.45 | JademusSreg | The Reverb fields in the sound data do not by themselves do much of anything, from what I see, but rather configure how the sound interacts with applied reverb. |
| 12:54.19 | JademusSreg | As for the sound suddenly cutting out, that would definitely be configured from the sound data, though audio technical stuff is a bit beyond my knowledge. |
| 12:58.12 | Zolden | well, at least i could add some quiet time to the sound file |
| 12:59.55 | Bommes | the sound ends abruptly though because it is set up to do so in the sound actor with the sounddone.* -> destroy message |
| 12:59.57 | JademusSreg | Modifying the file, one may as well add the desired reverb that way. |
| 13:00.32 | JademusSreg | Bom, did you test without the message? |
| 13:00.57 | JademusSreg | If that works, one would need a timer to delay destruction. |
| 13:02.02 | Bommes | no idea ^^ |
| 13:02.07 | Bommes | just throwing ideas around |
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| 13:09.38 | Zolden | Bommes in sound actor I have a timer that gives a second of time between sound done and destroy messages |
| 13:10.21 | Bommes | does it work for reverb sounds occuring even when the actual sound ended? |
| 13:11.14 | Zolden | reverb effect ends with the sound |
| 13:11.32 | Zolden | actor is alive, but doesn't produce sounds |
| 13:11.37 | Bommes | mhkay :/ too bad |
| 13:12.04 | Bommes | do changes to the sound also effect the reverb? like reducing the volume and stuff like that |
| 13:12.40 | Bommes | otherwise maybe there are some tricks you could do with looping the sound while at the same time reducing the volume |
| 13:12.43 | Bommes | if there is no other option |
| 13:12.46 | Zolden | only the first value of balance affects the sound by changing the volume of it |
| 13:13.26 | Zolden | well, maybe, but I lost interest to this issue, doing another abil |
| 13:13.38 | Bommes | kk |
| 13:14.15 | Bommes | maybe I'll look into it later on, having cool reverb effects seems like a nice functionality and the digital effects data seems to have a bunch of options |
| 13:14.29 | Bommes | so maybe I can find something useful |
| 13:14.36 | JademusSreg | On the plus side, actor-applied DSP proved a smashing success. |
| 13:14.46 | Bommes | exactly :D |
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| 13:20.20 | Zolden | yea, at least it is proven |
| 13:53.25 | JademusSreg | Hm, attempting to think of a faction in the lore which is predominantly protoss with supplemental terran forces. |
| 13:55.56 | Bommes | http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Selendis |
| 13:56.04 | Bommes | not really supplemental terran forces |
| 13:56.39 | Bommes | but might be not too far fetched to have some kind of cooperation there |
| 14:22.01 | JademusSreg | Found one that works. |
| 14:38.09 | JademusSreg | Appropriate that Narud would have a secret research lab in the "Kirkegaard Belt", given that Kierkegaard was a philosopher known for his works pretending as many different, often opposing characters. |
| 14:48.22 | Bommes | dutch? |
| 14:48.26 | Bommes | sounds like a dutch name |
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| 15:23.10 | Bommes | wow, that Kierkegaard actually had some good points |
| 15:23.30 | Bommes | good stuff :) |
| 15:27.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
| 15:33.42 | JademusSreg | 12 factions, good number. |
| 15:45.38 | JademusSreg | 2 variations for each single racial faction, and a primary-secondary combination for each race. |
| 15:48.56 | JademusSreg | Terran Dominion, Raynor's Raiders, Daelaam Alliance, Tal'darim Protoss, Zerg Swarm, Primal Zerg, Umoja Protectorate, UED Remnants, Qlippoth (Voice in the Darkness (not to be confused with "Dark Voice" Amon)), Kai'zerashk (Khalani for "Hands of Oblivion" (because "Fist of Ulrezaj" sounds lame)), Infested Revenants, Hybrid Legion |
| 15:50.30 | Bommes | Which one is the Protoss+Terran faction you talked about earlier? |
| 15:50.35 | Bommes | Daelaam Alliance? |
| 15:50.46 | JademusSreg | Qlippoth. |
| 15:51.27 | JademusSreg | http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Voice_in_the_Darkness_(entity) |
| 15:53.09 | JademusSreg | In the story, it possessed protoss and terrans, so it works. |
| 15:57.04 | Bommes | sounds cool :) |
| 15:58.26 | Zolden | patch 2.1 dudes |
| 15:58.45 | JademusSreg | Woo. |
| 16:02.48 | kingTD | where? |
| 16:02.58 | Zolden | try to connect to NA |
| 16:04.19 | kingTD | and crashed |
| 16:04.37 | Zolden | gj |
| 16:10.38 | kingTD | alrighty then |
| 16:10.41 | kingTD | can log in :/ |
| 16:10.48 | kingTD | can't |
| 16:11.48 | Zolden | you can't log in becasue it's under maintanance |
| 16:12.17 | Zolden | and other servers haven't updated yet, so can't login anywhere |
| 16:13.27 | Dustin | Soo I didnt try the 2.1 ptr |
| 16:13.33 | Dustin | Is the changes to the editor awesome? |
| 16:14.09 | kingTD | there almost none changes made for editor |
| 16:14.18 | JademusSreg | Wrong. |
| 16:14.27 | Zolden | i don't know how to find the changes, need a list to see |
| 16:14.32 | JademusSreg | Many, many tooltips were added, especially for actor shit. |
| 16:14.47 | kingTD | comments mb not tooltips? |
| 16:15.38 | Zolden | 2 things i'm interested in: better terrain deformers and rtt for pip |
| 16:16.00 | JademusSreg | The words I employ are not selected at random but rather determined to be the most precise tool for the concepts I intend to communicate, twod. |
| 16:16.18 | kingTD | BULLSH!T |
| 16:16.32 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 16:16.53 | JademusSreg | Also added Extension mods. |
| 16:18.04 | kingTD | its not really an editor change? |
| 16:18.54 | JademusSreg | It is by definition a change. Fewer actor tooltips changed to more actor tooltips. |
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| 16:19.53 | JademusSreg | They also changed the map info a bit, so the author is no longer a field. Presumably the author displayed will be that of the publisher. |
| 16:20.30 | kingTD | yeah this one was unused for some time already |
| 16:21.34 | JademusSreg | Suppose I could just package all the editor changes into a single archive, but no one would read it. =D |
| 16:22.21 | Dustin | Hope it doesnt break anything on my map |
| 16:22.26 | Dustin | Ill be a sad panda |
| 16:22.49 | JademusSreg | There were data changes, so it's possible. |
| 16:23.00 | Zolden | can an older patch unfuck what earlier patches fucked in our maps? |
| 16:23.20 | JademusSreg | Plus, handles for dialog controls and layout frames were exposed. |
| 16:23.28 | Dustin | Oh really |
| 16:23.42 | JademusSreg | Zol, usually that will just double-fuck a map. |
| 16:23.44 | Dustin | I do need to make a UI for my map |
| 16:24.01 | kingTD | handles? |
| 16:24.50 | JademusSreg | Unique string identifiers. |
| 16:25.12 | kingTD | nope, still tells me that nothing :/ |
| 16:25.17 | JademusSreg | Since I've not used them, I can't say more about them than that. |
| 16:25.21 | Dustin | Datatable of Dialogs |
| 16:26.24 | Dustin | "While a pointer literally contains the address of the item to which it refers, a handle is an abstraction of a reference which is managed externally; its opacity allows the referent to be relocated in memory by the system without invalidating the handle, which is impossible with pointers. The extra layer of indirection also increases the control the managing system has over operations performed on |
| 16:26.25 | Dustin | the referent. Typically the handle is an index or a pointer into a global array of tombstones. |
| 17:03.37 | JademusSreg | Design is coming along exquisitely. |
| 17:16.47 | Kueken | wow xD |
| 17:17.03 | Kueken | was fighting a mage in hearthstone, had 9 health. |
| 17:17.29 | Kueken | I topdecked the heal 6 hp guy, and the next turn mage topdecked pyroblast |
| 17:17.34 | Kueken | man, he was salty |
| 17:19.22 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
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| 17:47.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken1 (~Kueken@brsg-4dbbcac0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:51.05 | Dustin | wow for as long as this patch took, it's not got a lot of meat in it |
| 17:51.17 | Dustin | It's like a lettuce sandwich with some cheese on it |
| 17:54.11 | Zolden | does it make sc2 free? |
| 17:54.29 | Dustin | The arcade and custom games |
| 17:54.30 | kingTD | not matchmaking and campaign |
| 17:55.27 | kingTD | so no really remakes of original campaign possiblity to make for sure |
| 17:56.39 | Dustin | I thought they were releasing those 3 orc models |
| 17:56.51 | Dustin | but I dont see anything in the patch notes |
| 17:56.53 | JademusSreg | And nothing bad will ever happen. The End |
| 17:56.58 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 17:57.37 | Zolden | they need to release trollface model to return it on any search of new features |
| 17:58.11 | kingTD | they said clearly that they will not release in this patch the models... |
| 17:58.28 | kingTD | everywhere i go i see same complain that there are no models... |
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| 18:03.28 | Dustin | Did they change their mind? Pretty sure they said they would release them with 2.1 at blizzcon |
| 18:03.43 | Dustin | Of course I dont care, because I think it's stupid to just make like 3 models from wc3 |
| 18:04.41 | kingTD | they didnt say that, pretty sure they said that that will be in 2.2 |
| 18:05.05 | kingTD | and that models wherent completed yet |
| 18:17.16 | mille25 | sooo... any interresting editor changes or is extention mods the only thing? |
| 18:17.41 | Dustin | Eh, not really anything noteworthy |
| 18:18.29 | mille25 | did it at least not break anything? :D |
| 18:18.37 | Dustin | http://puu.sh/6t3wB.jpg |
| 18:18.45 | Dustin | It's still hours out |
| 18:18.50 | Dustin | They are having 'troubles' |
| 18:20.05 | mille25 | well, that has to be expected :P |
| 18:21.30 | Dustin | Oh I figured |
| 18:21.43 | Dustin | Blizzard at least is consistant with dissapointing me now lol |
| 18:22.07 | mille25 | can't disappoint if you have low expectations :D |
| 18:22.26 | mille25 | my only hope is that the patch doesnt fuck anything up |
| 18:22.36 | Dustin | Yeah me too |
| 18:22.37 | mille25 | im happy with everything else! :D |
| 18:23.10 | G0A | I am not happy that they didnt balance the fucking heartstone mage |
| 18:23.11 | mille25 | but still, since the devs seem to be more active in the editor issues forum after patches im gonna post some ancient bugs, maybe they will get fixed in 6 monhts then. |
| 18:23.12 | Dustin | I mean yeah I'm happy they are adding shit, but I dont feel it's focused or the right stuff entirely, but I've stoped caring for the most part, so meh |
| 18:23.21 | Dustin | Good call! |
| 18:23.26 | Zolden | Kueken1 are you available? |
| 18:24.55 | Zolden | dudes, I have model -> animation style continuous actor with effect.bla.start -> create, effect.bla.stop -> destroy, and by some reason model doesn't play death animation when the effect is gone |
| 18:24.59 | Zolden | it jsut disappears |
| 18:25.21 | Zolden | any ideas how to make it play death at end? |
| 18:26.01 | Dustin | make another effect.bla.stop -> Play Death anim maybe? |
| 18:29.53 | Zolden | it has AnimBracketStart BSD Birth Stand Death message on actor creation |
| 18:30.12 | Zolden | so, I expecte it to play death |
| 18:33.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zandose (Zandose@24-246-78-228.cable.teksavvy.com) |
| 18:33.16 | Zandose | hey |
| 18:33.21 | Zandose | when was Taintedwisp banned? |
| 18:37.04 | Zolden | has anyone tried if they fixed that crash bug when in events terms you select some term starting from T? |
| 18:38.21 | Zolden | Zandose some months ago |
| 18:39.06 | Zandose | i see |
| 18:39.12 | Zandose | i didnt notice |
| 18:50.31 | Zandose | will this not work? Actor - Attach a new SOpAttachOrigin to Origin on A.Actor |
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| 18:52.39 | Zolden | i don't know much about doing this via triggers, but this sounds like you're trying to attach a site operation to actor, which has no sence |
| 18:52.50 | Zandose | oh |
| 18:52.56 | Zandose | sence? |
| 18:52.59 | Zolden | sensse |
| 18:53.02 | Zolden | senese |
| 18:53.03 | Zolden | sense |
| 18:53.06 | Zandose | k |
| 18:53.45 | Zandose | does doing it in data apply it differently? |
| 18:53.46 | Zolden | but there is a chance that i'm not correct |
| 18:54.17 | Zolden | in data you attach model actors to actors, with site operation actors defined in site op + field |
| 18:54.53 | Zandose | so models hold the attachment points not the actors? |
| 18:55.47 | Zolden | yea |
| 18:55.49 | Zandose | ah. models have pre-defined attachment points and actors are used to change the attachment points position and such |
| 18:56.20 | Zolden | site operation actors may define offsets and turns |
| 18:56.30 | Zandose | got it |
| 18:56.32 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91-82-140-113.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 18:56.41 | Zandose | i took the wrong approch. thank you |
| 18:57.36 | Zandose | are "model actors" and "models" different? |
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| 18:59.37 | G0A | great, installed 2.1 and server is still down |
| 18:59.40 | ArcanePariah | Models are the actual object that is displayed visually. All actors are effectively puppetmasters, controlling from behind the scene |
| 19:00.09 | ArcanePariah | So think of models as the puppet, and the actor as the puppet master pulling the strings |
| 19:00.15 | Zandose | yah |
| 19:00.37 | Zandose | i have a unit and in triggers im trying to create new attachment points (with offsets) |
| 19:01.14 | ArcanePariah | Attachment points are solely on the model, you can not "create" new ones, you need to take the model in 3DS Max and add them there |
| 19:01.21 | Zolden | Zandose model is m3 file. model data entry is an entry under "models" tab. model actor is data entry under "actors" tab, it's actor of "model" type |
| 19:01.40 | kingTD | heh that is some kind of game that i never hear of :o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2vG7QtsOS8 |
| 19:01.41 | ArcanePariah | What you can do is attach something to an existing attach point, then adjust it from there to make it appear as though it originates elsewhere |
| 19:02.16 | ArcanePariah | But you can not, as far as I'm aware, dynamically add attach points to a model |
| 19:02.59 | ArcanePariah | I do belive you can add attach definitions, such that a given attach point that may not exist for a model can be auto translated to one that does, such that queries for attach points can work better |
| 19:03.19 | ArcanePariah | But that is done in the model data |
| 19:03.25 | Zandose | but i can pre-say attach another model to my unit, make the attached model invisible, move its attachment points with actors and use those as new attachment points? |
| 19:04.10 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but in that case you need to keep track in actors with references the attached model, such that you can access it and use its attachment points, instead of the hosts |
| 19:04.34 | Zandose | simple with trigger variables i think |
| 19:05.18 | ArcanePariah | You can, and for now, if you are not experienced with actor references, that is probably the more time efficient method, although I would recommend learning how actor references work |
| 19:05.54 | Zandose | k |
| 19:08.02 | Zandose | attachment model, add alias, use actor message with reference (instead of variables). anything else about it? |
| 19:08.48 | JademusSreg | Brak. |
| 19:09.31 | ArcanePariah | That does work I think, you may want to consult the new tooltips, they do a pretty good job of explaining actor scopes |
| 19:09.39 | Zandose | k |
| 19:09.40 | ArcanePariah | If you can call them tooltips |
| 19:09.55 | ArcanePariah | The "tooltip" on actor scopes is practically a guide |
| 19:10.10 | Zandose | any suggestions are which model to use for extra attachment points? |
| 19:10.14 | ArcanePariah | When I first saw it, I was like... wow.... |
| 19:10.39 | Zandose | or a simple model with 2 attachment points (origin and ???)? |
| 19:10.42 | ArcanePariah | Depends on your purpose, and what queries for attach points you may use |
| 19:10.56 | ArcanePariah | Yes, you could use something simple, which often has just Origin and Center |
| 19:11.03 | Zandose | what do you mean queries for attach points? |
| 19:11.53 | JademusSreg | Time for me to penetrate the newish patch. |
| 19:12.08 | ArcanePariah | I will be writin a guide on this later, but one does not need to specify directly an attach point like Center, one can use attach methods to gather possible attach points and select from them. For instance, the marauder attack switches sides, yet it does not require 2 action actors to make that happen |
| 19:12.31 | ArcanePariah | It uses an attach method to choose and switch launch points |
| 19:12.35 | Zolden | JademusSreg yea, rape the fucker hard |
| 19:12.39 | ArcanePariah | after every attack |
| 19:12.59 | Zandose | i believe i just need simple attachment points with slight offsets |
| 19:13.23 | ArcanePariah | In that case, you will simply specify a direct attach point like Center or Weapon or w/e the model has |
| 19:13.34 | Zandose | yes |
| 19:13.34 | ArcanePariah | I really ought to write that guide soonish... |
| 19:13.49 | ArcanePariah | Zolden, pics or it didn't happen |
| 19:14.26 | Zandose | so back to a previous question, what model has just a origin and center? |
| 19:16.41 | Zolden | ArcanePariah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhndxdxyCCc |
| 19:16.44 | JademusSreg | Invisible Unit model, iirc |
| 19:19.23 | Zandose | working so far |
| 19:19.46 | Zandose | one last thing i think. in trigger how do i move the attachment points? |
| 19:20.36 | Zandose | attach a sop move actor or actor message? |
| 19:21.39 | JademusSreg | Interesting. Bug fix, Viking Lanzer Torpedos no longer track units relocated long distances via Mass Recall. This could be informative, as old Lanzer Torpedo data may contain the solution to the notorious teleport target reference loss problem. |
| 19:26.03 | Dustin | They fixed an issue with unit instant move with blend and missle targetting as well |
| 19:26.15 | JademusSreg | Orly? Neato |
| 19:28.15 | Dustin | http://puu.sh/6t8fO.jpg |
| 19:28.52 | JademusSreg | Ah, I missed that. |
| 19:31.16 | JademusSreg | Anyway, extracted the new patch content. |
| 19:31.32 | Zandose | Bump. <Zandose> In triggers how do i move a attachment points on a model? |
| 19:31.41 | Zandose | Bump. In triggers how do i move a attachment points on a model? |
| 19:32.02 | JademusSreg | You don't; you apply SOpOffsets |
| 19:33.49 | Zandose | with actor messages? |
| 19:34.45 | JademusSreg | They can use and deal with site ops, sure. |
| 19:36.14 | JademusSreg | Natives unchanged; still no RegionDiamond or simply RegionPolygon. =\ |
| 19:37.16 | JademusSreg | Though Shaders have been updated between build 28272 and 28667. |
| 19:40.32 | Zolden | JademusSreg weren't terrain deformers updated? |
| 19:40.51 | JademusSreg | Clarify? |
| 19:43.34 | JademusSreg | I can say with confidence that the TerrainDeformer actor default values have not changed. |
| 19:43.41 | JademusSreg | Are you refering to something else? |
| 19:46.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 19:47.05 | Zolden | JademusSreg I expected they change something about them |
| 19:47.14 | Zolden | not sure how it should look |
| 19:47.29 | Zandose | if i move a attachment points it seems to detach from the unit. Actor - Send message "AttachOffset ::Host {Origin 0} 10.000000,0.000000,0.000000" to actor A.Attachment |
| 19:47.50 | Zolden | have they fixed the fact that triggers used to fail modifying pathing on run? |
| 19:48.00 | Zandose | Would be nice if they fixed the terrain-camera issuse with terrain deformations |
| 19:48.14 | JademusSreg | Can you suggest anything regarding said change, like how it affects anything? If I know what, I can determine how, and thus where. |
| 19:48.51 | JademusSreg | Otherwise I'm forced to run the whole thing through a figurative mulcher, which takes fucking forever. |
| 19:49.27 | Zandose | nevermind. i was using the wrong actor message |
| 19:49.33 | Zolden | JademusSreg http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7923034097#1 |
| 19:49.42 | Zolden | this except selection circles |
| 19:51.21 | Zandose | when you use a 1st/3rd person camera whole chunks of terrain disappear |
| 19:52.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster yttrium (~herolief@c-24-0-67-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.32 | JademusSreg | I don't see anything in the default data regarding any of those items listed, sorry Zol. If there've been any changes, they are not visible from the actor data or camera data. |
| 19:55.08 | JademusSreg | Nothing in the GameUI data either. |
| 19:55.16 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 19:55.23 | A1win | http://www.twitch.tv/a1win HS arena time |
| 19:56.04 | Zandose | what models have the most animations sets? |
| 19:59.09 | Zandose | im looking for a human type model which has more animations then the standard civilan |
| 19:59.14 | JademusSreg | The basic infantry, usually. |
| 19:59.37 | Zandose | marines? |
| 20:00.41 | Zolden | Zandose if you need so many of this stuff, I'd recommend to get max and art tools and start making them odels you need |
| 20:01.03 | Zandose | i just to use trigger cheats |
| 20:01.11 | Zandose | i likw ro use trigger cheats |
| 20:01.14 | Zandose | err |
| 20:01.21 | Zandose | i like to use trigger cheats |
| 20:01.37 | Zandose | and i like to know if things are possible |
| 20:02.08 | Zandose | like can i steal animations from other models and put them into one model (in triggers) or create custom animations (in triggers). |
| 20:03.36 | A1win | damn what a crap deck |
| 20:04.16 | JademusSreg | Zan, you're better off using the art tools. |
| 20:04.36 | kingTD | i managed to get 3-3 arena run with afk opponent |
| 20:04.43 | A1win | hehe |
| 20:05.57 | Zandose | can you attach a model (for attachment points) to a models bones? |
| 20:07.03 | Dustin | Looks like bnet may be back up |
| 20:07.41 | JademusSreg | <Error> Zandose Exception: Cannot parse meaning of question |
| 20:07.44 | Dustin | nevermind its not |
| 20:08.43 | Zandose | models have bone and attachment points which are connected to the bones. can i make attachment points on the bones myself, in triggers. |
| 20:08.50 | Zandose | bones* |
| 20:09.10 | JademusSreg | No, nope, not even a little, not ever. |
| 20:09.14 | Zandose | k |
| 20:09.16 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:10.16 | JademusSreg | Delph is doing a ton of animations for SCU and other stuff, you could discuss modeling and perhaps get an introduction to using the art tools? |
| 20:10.36 | Zandose | nah. not interested in that right now |
| 20:11.40 | JademusSreg | Sounds like you're interested in what it can accomplish. =D |
| 20:12.27 | Zandose | another day, another time. |
| 20:14.44 | kingTD | rape01 |
| 20:15.54 | A1win | well that was a cool shaman |
| 20:18.10 | kingTD | 1-1 already? |
| 20:18.55 | A1win | shaman forgot to spawn totem on turn 2 and gave up |
| 20:19.17 | Zandose | why dont models have attachment points on the feet? i cant find any |
| 20:19.31 | Dustin | Because they dont need them |
| 20:19.40 | Zandose | i need them |
| 20:19.48 | Dustin | Then edit some models |
| 20:19.57 | Dustin | :P |
| 20:20.10 | Zandose | never! |
| 20:21.11 | JademusSreg | Hell, for animations, you don't even need to edit models, just add supplemental animations and save them to an animation file. |
| 20:21.53 | JademusSreg | Swarm did that for the Flail animations. |
| 20:21.56 | kingTD | so no access to NA still? |
| 20:23.52 | Zolden | dunno, i'm mapmaking |
| 20:27.58 | kingTD | what u mappining about zolden? |
| 20:30.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater915 (a2e889dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.232.137.220) |
| 20:33.25 | MoonEater915 | i feel like 2.1 wasnt all that it was cracked up tobe |
| 20:34.17 | kingTD | yeah dl ptr was a waste |
| 20:37.36 | G0A | Free Arcade is the only crack in it |
| 20:38.10 | Dustin | agreed |
| 20:38.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (a2e889dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.232.137.220) |
| 20:38.45 | MoonEater | sorry bout that |
| 20:38.48 | MoonEater | crashed for a secx |
| 20:38.51 | MoonEater | what were u saying? |
| 20:39.01 | kingTD | would be cool if the dependecy mods would be available in editor too |
| 20:39.16 | MoonEater | alot of stuff would be cool |
| 20:39.29 | MoonEater | only thing useful they did was allow hots for everyone |
| 20:39.44 | MoonEater | i mean they decided to fix missles mostly |
| 20:39.51 | MoonEater | like who is complaining about missleS? |
| 20:40.30 | kingTD | missiles? |
| 20:42.43 | Bommes | reading patchnotes, when suddenly "Seeker Missiles launched by Battlecruisers on the third level of Lost Viking now properly track the Viking." |
| 20:43.07 | Bommes | thank god I did that achievement yesterday so I don't have to deal with the Lost Viking patch they patch in 4 years after release. |
| 20:44.06 | kingTD | achieved much bommes gz |
| 20:44.15 | Bommes | yeah I know |
| 20:44.18 | Bommes | I can finally sleep at night now |
| 20:44.56 | MoonEater | lolz |
| 20:45.20 | MoonEater | wel atleast it isnt just me |
| 20:45.31 | kingTD | no i wont, knowing that i dont have any of the viking lost acheivment |
| 20:45.32 | MoonEater | blizzard is misprioritizing |
| 20:46.11 | kingTD | like me with mapping. |
| 20:47.38 | MoonEater | like they do all that shit |
| 20:47.46 | MoonEater | but they cant just give us server side banks |
| 20:48.14 | Bommes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWKDxiIUyp4 |
| 20:48.29 | kingTD | or making Heroes shit |
| 20:48.35 | G0A | server side banks would mean more bug for them to fix :) |
| 20:50.14 | kingTD | better bugs than hackers |
| 20:51.30 | MoonEater | Bommes lolz |
| 20:51.46 | G0A | omg |
| 20:51.47 | MoonEater | did blizzard actually release that? |
| 20:51.54 | G0A | nope |
| 20:52.05 | Bommes | also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lObTx3XlgqA&src_vid=RWKDxiIUyp4&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_1380818943 |
| 20:52.07 | G0A | they might never do that :) |
| 20:52.37 | G0A | it was painfully and funny video |
| 20:52.47 | Bommes | I don't know where Cloaken suddenly got the magnificent beard though. |
| 20:52.55 | Bommes | I'll just say it's magic. |
| 20:54.37 | G0A | Fuckers |
| 20:55.13 | G0A | they didnt used my pictionary in the video, instead they use the other crapy dialog based one |
| 20:55.59 | JademusSreg | Zork pigglepork. |
| 20:57.09 | G0A | thought steal + molten giant priest is surprisingly good. |
| 20:57.32 | JademusSreg | And yes, magnificent beard. |
| 20:58.12 | Bommes | http://blizzardarcade.com/ they actually do call it blizzard arcade I guess? |
| 20:58.35 | Bommes | since that is the link in the youtube video |
| 20:58.39 | Bommes | although it doesn't work yet |
| 20:58.40 | Bommes | hmm |
| 20:58.56 | JademusSreg | Several Bounty maps, haha. |
| 20:59.22 | JademusSreg | And several maps with which I've been involved. =D |
| 20:59.40 | ArcanePariah | Intereting |
| 20:59.40 | Bommes | did you watch the first video? |
| 20:59.45 | Bommes | I'm sure you also feel like a snowflake |
| 20:59.50 | Bommes | making these maps and such |
| 20:59.51 | Bommes | haha |
| 20:59.53 | Kueken1 | That would be just about every map ever created, right? |
| 21:00.04 | JademusSreg | *directly involved |
| 21:00.05 | Kueken | @ Jade |
| 21:00.23 | ArcanePariah | lol Screenshot of NotD in there briefly |
| 21:01.16 | ArcanePariah | Also, yes, magnificent beard on Cloaken, wondered when he did that |
| 21:01.17 | Bommes | oh and also some new art tool promo video I haven't linked yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYVnzRmrQZc&src_vid=RWKDxiIUyp4&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_385403431 |
| 21:01.52 | JademusSreg | Most magnificent hip-hebrew beard I've seen in years. |
| 21:02.04 | ArcanePariah | Since he was cleanshaven just a month or 2 ago at Blizzcon or when they did the interview about Storm with Dustin Browder |
| 21:02.39 | ArcanePariah | And the artwork in the video lloks like stuff for LotB |
| 21:02.41 | ArcanePariah | LotV |
| 21:03.34 | Bommes | maybe they did the art tool video when they first released it though which would be like half a year or longer ago |
| 21:03.46 | Bommes | so the "no beard" could be more recent |
| 21:03.48 | Bommes | no idea |
| 21:04.03 | Zolden | kingTD finishing jew builder |
| 21:04.51 | kingTD | Zol if u choose Jew builder special Nazi units will appear in every wave! |
| 21:06.34 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, a fenestrated document into my current design / design thought process: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/KopruluFactions%20DesignWank.txt |
| 21:06.41 | Kueken | when I don't shave for 2 months, my beard is almost visible |
| 21:06.57 | G0A | lol |
| 21:07.03 | Zolden | Bommes thanks, fun vid |
| 21:07.14 | Zolden | kingTD saw that nigger working with art tools? |
| 21:07.15 | JademusSreg | Yes, thanks Bom. |
| 21:07.29 | G0A | I didnt shaved since 2 weeks and I look like Cloacken |
| 21:10.07 | kingTD | Zolden so? |
| 21:12.06 | G0A | Hmm JademusSreg, tug of war where you play card which you get placing buildings hmmm |
| 21:12.11 | JademusSreg | Nope. |
| 21:12.14 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:12.39 | G0A | yeah I am not sure what you are trying to do, but you should totally do that |
| 21:14.50 | Bommes | there's enough tug of war in the world |
| 21:15.43 | ArcanePariah | Think of JademusSreg idea as a modfied and more customizable variant of DoW II Retribution, with no hero units |
| 21:15.44 | kingTD | need better ones |
| 21:16.20 | JademusSreg | RTS de-emphasizing economic/base macro management the way tabletop games like WH40K hit that sweet spot of strategy, an idea I've had before and prototyped in previous iterations of Koprulu Factions, and having played Hearthstone I suddenly realized how to solve the pacing issue (problem being deathball vs deathball, so to speak) with the introduction of an army "deck" which makes available |
| 21:16.21 | JademusSreg | a player-constructed set of options incrementally. |
| 21:16.56 | ArcanePariah | Which I agree would work, it sounds frankly a lot like DoW II Retribution worked |
| 21:17.37 | JademusSreg | Which is to say, SC2/DoW HS/MtG |
| 21:17.57 | ArcanePariah | Ignorning the RPG aspect for a moment, Retribution allowed one to deploy honor guards as a default army, and then one could gather requistion to then summon more units, each with a limited cap on how many you could get, and you could unlock them as missions progressions |
| 21:18.10 | ArcanePariah | Which it seems to be the aim of your idea JademusSreg |
| 21:18.26 | ArcanePariah | Don't know if you ever played Retribution |
| 21:19.05 | JademusSreg | Effectively, the deck limit sets the cap in this case, since eventually you'll exhaust your reserve and fail (no one will support a failing advance, afterall). |
| 21:19.38 | JademusSreg | But yes, I'm familiar with the Dawns of Wars. =DF |
| 21:20.18 | ArcanePariah | Yes, the RPG aspect made the army units often useless, but it was definitely something I felt could be explored further |
| 21:20.24 | JademusSreg | *F is a typo, and not some odd facial hair style |
| 21:20.49 | ArcanePariah | In this case, simpler does seem better |
| 21:21.16 | ArcanePariah | Also I really enjoyed the neutral building that one could capture for strategic bonuses in DoW II |
| 21:21.32 | ArcanePariah | They were nice not only for the immediate, but also long term |
| 21:21.52 | ArcanePariah | Like Comm Arrays gave artillary strikes, but getting ALL of them gave you a bonus Orbital Bombardment |
| 21:22.14 | ArcanePariah | So elements like that I think should be incorporated |
| 21:22.39 | ArcanePariah | As a way of letting certain strategies that would not win on brute force terms an opportunity to prevail |
| 21:23.00 | JademusSreg | Yes, I intend (and need to write explicitly) that 2 neutral sites I have in mind are supply caches (or some other not-abstract strategic asset) and building sites (necessary for deploying structural assets). |
| 21:23.47 | JademusSreg | DoW1 was dreadful for its abstract strategic assets. |
| 21:25.17 | ArcanePariah | Would it serve to have a neutral macro economic asset? I'm thinking of something along the lines of a Tiberium autorefinier (I can't remember the exact name), that provides a small but steady amount of requistion? |
| 21:25.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836bc076@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.192.118) |
| 21:25.54 | ArcanePariah | That in the short term provides little advantage, but if controlled for a length enough time, would give a decided advantage? |
| 21:25.56 | JademusSreg | Yes, that's the purpose of a supply cache (or whatever not-abstract strategic asset). |
| 21:26.05 | ArcanePariah | Ahh |
| 21:26.50 | ArcanePariah | Well I was thinking for strategic assest, that they could be economic, or tactical, or purely strategical. Examples of tactical would the EMP generators in C&C 3 |
| 21:27.06 | ArcanePariah | And strategical would be something along the lines of C&C super weapons |
| 21:27.27 | ArcanePariah | Obviously not that powerful, but the idea of a battle field altering effect |
| 21:27.40 | Zolden | kingTD it looked a bit anecdotical, comical, parodical - a fat nigger modelling sc2 shit |
| 21:28.17 | kingTD | hmmm |
| 21:29.00 | kingTD | he is really dedicated on his work.. just 24/7 modelling and fatting it up |
| 21:29.11 | JademusSreg | Well, I've only got two ideas for strategic assets because they facilitate rather than act, in a sense. A supply cache that supplements requisition generation is obvious, and building sites allow players to deploy their own structural assets, like huge defense cannons or super weapons or global unit buffs or whatever. |
| 21:29.56 | ArcanePariah | Hmm, I do like the idea generic structure points, since that would permit another element of deck building |
| 21:30.02 | JademusSreg | Precisely. |
| 21:30.56 | ArcanePariah | One possiblity to consider. For a given battle, have generic points, but include at random a structure asset from a faction that is not participating as a neutral asset to be captured |
| 21:31.40 | ArcanePariah | I think it would lead to more dynamic games since it would encoruage players to be familiar with all faction capabilites, and how to defend or utilize them |
| 21:31.51 | JademusSreg | Considered, but the Herostorm approach is superior, with map-specific side-quests. |
| 21:32.23 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, I forgot you intended to incorporate that, I was going to mention it, but that is now non applicable |
| 21:32.58 | ArcanePariah | And yes, it is indeed superior, and I think Blizzard was correct in their assesment that such side quests both drive action and variety of strategy and tactics |
| 21:33.47 | JademusSreg | I'm rather skeptical something so prominents as the Herostorm side-quest mechanic would work here, so instead I'd consider strategic assets which enable some function of the map. Retractable bridges and gates, being obvious examples. |
| 21:33.54 | ArcanePariah | In fact, DotA had a very simple version of this, there was a mode that spawned super creeps, that unopposed could destroy the enemy base. These games did indeed drive more action, since a teams would readily rush to fight or support their super creep |
| 21:33.56 | JademusSreg | *prominent |
| 21:34.15 | JademusSreg | Either way, it's an open question. |
| 21:34.38 | JademusSreg | Best determined once playable prototypes are underway. |
| 21:35.11 | JademusSreg | Difficult to determine now without experiencing the gameplay. |
| 21:35.33 | ArcanePariah | One thing that will add quite a bit to the enjoyment but also to the difficult of balance is the map design. Terrain and placement of such assets will probably play a pivotal role in how games go for different matchups |
| 21:36.15 | JademusSreg | More or less determinable mathematically, could be done even with existing melee maps. |
| 21:36.19 | ArcanePariah | As far as I am aware, dynamic terrain is not possible, correct? |
| 21:36.37 | JademusSreg | It's possible, within limits. |
| 21:36.41 | ArcanePariah | As in the pathing map of a map can not be altered in game? |
| 21:36.54 | ArcanePariah | Like I can not rearrange cliffs and such mid game |
| 21:37.04 | JademusSreg | Yeah, I hate cliffs, haha. |
| 21:37.36 | JademusSreg | I prefer not to use them, because the models are ugly and static. |
| 21:38.38 | ArcanePariah | In lieu of cliffs, I would then assume you would utlize LoS blockers and possibly shrubs (which I'm not entire sure how those work, but I assume they are a terrain type that permits sight within it, but not out of it or into it |
| 21:40.31 | ArcanePariah | Back to a SC2 techincal question, For a damage response, is the unit the behavior is on considered the Source Unit, and for Attacker located responses, is the damaged unit considered the Target Unit? |
| 21:40.46 | JademusSreg | Hypothetical, but naw, better to use units with footprints who cells are flagged to boost and occlude vision. |
| 21:41.40 | JademusSreg | Well, the behavior is on the unit so one would assume it's the source unit. |
| 21:42.28 | DeadZergling | while on the topic of sight blockers, are one way sight blockers possible, or only for cliffs |
| 21:42.54 | JademusSreg | I've dealt with this before, in my Jademus Demo; used a buff with damage response to apply a behavior to the attacker that certain weapons required for validation, thereby enabling counter attacks (combo counter attacks at that, ala Chrono Trigger). |
| 21:43.19 | DeadZergling | I been messing around with a mountainous area a lot, already plan to give upper ground the advantage in projectiles blowing up on cliffsides, but the whole cliff useage thing is out of the question, they look crappy, and only 2 raised levels allowed |
| 21:44.01 | JademusSreg | Deadz, boost height to boost vision, set occlusion height to a value less than the boost height. |
| 21:44.18 | ArcanePariah | Although effects use cliff levels, vision can be manipulated on a direct basis I believe, so you can set heights of vision to almost anything |
| 21:44.20 | JademusSreg | Thus, a unit in the footprint is boosted higher than it occludes. |
| 21:44.52 | DeadZergling | not sure I'm following |
| 21:46.57 | JademusSreg | Tested this a long long time ago. Doodads and units can occlude vision for lower vision heights, and they can boost height so the unit counts as being higher, the mechanisms of which are defined by footprint cell flags and quantified by occlusion and vision height fields on the doodad/unit. |
| 21:48.25 | ArcanePariah | DeadZergling, basically, the Occlusion height of a unit is the height that is used to determine what a unit can see for LoS (think of it as the position of the eyes) |
| 21:49.03 | JademusSreg | That's the vision height. |
| 21:49.10 | DeadZergling | so what you are saying is, use invisible doodad walls of a certain height, and then plop doodads on an upper level to boost the vision height for those within? |
| 21:50.06 | JademusSreg | All the heights mentioned here are cliff heights, so one is still limited to the same cliff levels (haha). |
| 21:50.43 | DeadZergling | so only 2 cliff levels of vision still, well that is a humbug |
| 21:50.46 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so walk me through this again. What does occlusion height do in respect to the vision height or height of a another unit? |
| 21:50.48 | JademusSreg | But I expect that's not even necessary, since the same footprint can both boost height and occlude vision, as I mentioned initially. |
| 21:50.55 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 21:51.32 | DeadZergling | because what I would want to do would need to handle about 8 elevation increases |
| 21:57.35 | Bommes | oh, Hearthstone open beta starts this week as well? |
| 21:58.14 | Bommes | I wouldn't even be surprised anymore if they announced WoW F2P tomorrow |
| 21:58.49 | Bommes | seems to be the week of letting everyone in on blizzard games |
| 22:00.26 | ArcanePariah | Unlikely for WoW to ever go F2P, but certainly the price will be reduced over time |
| 22:03.42 | JademusSreg | Would be nice if HS had more cards. |
| 22:04.24 | ArcanePariah | They will almost certainly add more |
| 22:04.33 | ArcanePariah | Kind of the nature of such games |
| 22:04.38 | Bommes | They already announced their plans to add more cards very soon |
| 22:04.46 | Bommes | right now they are still fixing all the beta bugs I'd imagine |
| 22:04.56 | Bommes | because the interface is really buggy right now and has been since the beginning |
| 22:05.03 | JademusSreg | Haha, yeah. |
| 22:05.11 | ArcanePariah | MtG still going strong after 20 years, so it is a proven model |
| 22:06.54 | JademusSreg | I refer more to the basic cards. Loathesome to have so few options as to feel you're choosing the least worst of those available. |
| 22:07.20 | ArcanePariah | Indeed |
| 22:07.48 | DeadZergling | So tell me Jade, would this technique be viable at all for 8 elevation increases, or no? |
| 22:07.56 | JademusSreg | Nooope. |
| 22:07.57 | ArcanePariah | As a sidenote, do you think we will be graced with the presence of a Blizzard Dev sometime over the next day or 2? |
| 22:08.12 | JademusSreg | Possible, but doubt it. |
| 22:08.23 | Bommes | ~seen Blizz-Deletarius |
| 22:08.27 | purl | blizz-deletarius <d8940048@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.148.0.72> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 92d 4h 44m 11s ago, saying: 'afk myself'. |
| 22:08.27 | DeadZergling | oh well, thanks for the information, higher ground being harder to hit is a strong enough advantage anyways |
| 22:10.04 | JademusSreg | iirc, they arrive when a feature patch deploys and hang around for a few days off-and-on to see if there's any catastrofuck bugs. |
| 22:10.31 | ArcanePariah | Well it does seem Tenarsis is quite active on the Blizz forums atm |
| 22:15.52 | ArcanePariah | It does appear they made many under the hood improvements to the editor |
| 22:16.09 | Bommes | how so? |
| 22:16.20 | Bommes | did they fix the terrain physics material at actor crash? :D |
| 22:16.45 | ArcanePariah | Well Tenarsis is replying to many posts in the editor bug report forum, and yes, he said that one was fixed |
| 22:16.57 | ArcanePariah | I will test and see if that is the case |
| 22:18.53 | ArcanePariah | Yes it is fixed |
| 22:22.13 | Bommes | ok cool, that means the patch can't disappoint me anymore |
| 22:22.22 | Bommes | under any circumstances |
| 22:22.24 | G0A | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12346797/starcraft-ii-patch-21-round-up-1-21-2014 |
| 22:22.27 | G0A | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12346798/starcraft-ii-patch-21-notes-1-21-2014 |
| 22:22.28 | Bommes | except if they break new shit+ |
| 22:22.30 | G0A | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12440015/free-arcade-and-more-1-21-2014 |
| 22:22.33 | G0A | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12444476/patch-21-art-tools-1-21-2014 |
| 22:23.35 | DeadZergling | Free To Play Arcade, rats, means I'll have to contact my 'friends' |
| 22:23.52 | ArcanePariah | Arcade AND Custom games |
| 22:24.07 | DeadZergling | which is good, because my map only exists in custom games right now, lol |
| 22:24.42 | DeadZergling | so I was messing around with my mountain area so much last night that I had to stop because I gave myself vertigo |
| 22:25.03 | DeadZergling | laid down, woke up an hour later, still felt sick, was simply fantastic |
| 22:25.55 | DeadZergling | finishing this area is simply gonna be a delight, I can tell already |
| 23:02.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-088-076-011-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:05.20 | Bommes | http://i.imgur.com/gA5X6Ac.jpg not sure if this patch is a blessing or a curse |
| 23:05.41 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 23:05.59 | ArcanePariah | I'm going to assume there is an option to disable clan decals |
| 23:05.59 | baldandgoateed | JademusSreg, everyone hates me. |
| 23:09.39 | Ahli | so, any new stuff in 2.1? |
| 23:09.59 | ArcanePariah | Variety of bug fixes, Tenaris has been posting on Editor Bug forum a bit today |
| 23:10.02 | Ahli | programming 14 hours, so fun.,... need so many beers now |
| 23:10.04 | ArcanePariah | The actor tooltips |
| 23:10.07 | baldandgoateed | Ahli, bLizzard hates me. |
| 23:10.09 | baldandgoateed | Everyone hates me. |
| 23:10.12 | baldandgoateed | They all want to see me dead. |
| 23:10.21 | Ahli | lallja? |
| 23:10.24 | ArcanePariah | Ahli, a beer an hour I say, should do the trick |
| 23:10.26 | Ahli | or however that was spelled |
| 23:10.34 | baldandgoateed | Ahli, doesn't matter. |
| 23:10.36 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91-82-140-113.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 23:10.44 | baldandgoateed | Why do you hate, what hav eI ever done do you |
| 23:10.50 | baldandgoateed | You're just mad at me because I corrected your grammar. |
| 23:10.57 | Ahli | I don't hate people, I just stop responding |
| 23:12.00 | baldandgoateed | Why |
| 23:13.35 | Ahli | because they talk to me without a reason anykind of understandable reason... |
| 23:14.00 | Ahli | also, I not sentences, brain maaaaaashed |
| 23:14.52 | baldandgoateed | Ahli, I am sorry for all the hurt I caused you and your family. |
| 23:15.22 | Ahli | nobody got hurt, just annoyed... also I don't care.... I need to pee |
| 23:17.38 | Ahli | wb me, success |
| 23:22.37 | Ahli | omg, guys... they fixed the hive's kill counter |
| 23:25.10 | ArcanePariah | ??? |
| 23:25.17 | Ahli | yay, seems like they fixed the construction stuff's hp when you use "speed #" command :D |
| 23:25.22 | Ahli | hive had a kill count |
| 23:25.28 | ArcanePariah | lolllllll |
| 23:25.34 | Ahli | like forever |
| 23:25.45 | ArcanePariah | Facepalm worthy right there |
| 23:26.09 | Ahli | move unit with blend will no longer break missile tracking <3 |
| 23:26.52 | DeadZergling | that seems like a bad thing in terms of using it as an evasion tactic |
| 23:27.25 | Ahli | you can still redirect the missiles... normally move unit + blend is used for ability movement stuff |
| 23:27.35 | Ahli | like nice force effects |
| 23:27.57 | Ahli | pushing back without making the unit look like it's running backwards... or just slowing down, etx |
| 23:27.58 | Ahli | etc |
| 23:28.25 | ArcanePariah | Well, there is a flag in launch missle specifically for teleport, such that if you want a missle to miss, just uncheck that |
| 23:28.41 | ArcanePariah | But I guess this was meant for move by trigger |
| 23:29.15 | DeadZergling | yea, because a missile tracking a guy who teleports across half the map |
| 23:29.21 | DeadZergling | makes perfect sense |
| 23:29.40 | ArcanePariah | Sure it does... if the target is tagged :D |
| 23:29.55 | Ahli | btw, you can still move unit without blend, that should break the missiles |
| 23:30.06 | Ahli | just move to the same position, I assume |
| 23:30.20 | Bommes | Ahli, so they first broke missile tracking after move unit intentionally, and then they reintroduce it half a year later? |
| 23:30.23 | Bommes | wtf lol |
| 23:30.29 | Ahli | yes, I complained |
| 23:30.45 | Ahli | and then I tried to redirect all missiles again |
| 23:30.52 | Ahli | but I think that was bugged at some point again |
| 23:30.59 | DeadZergling | good work on making the editor worse for everyone |
| 23:31.02 | Ahli | I remember that it didn't work anymore some months ago |
| 23:32.21 | DeadZergling | incoming forum posts about missiles that fly across the entire screen after a teleport, how do I stop that |
| 23:34.15 | ArcanePariah | Uncheck 1 flag... lol |
| 23:34.31 | ArcanePariah | Or apply a behavior that runs a single nullify missle effect |
| 23:34.46 | Bommes | or stop making teleport abilities with triggers |
| 23:34.54 | ArcanePariah | That too |
| 23:35.40 | Ahli | inb4 they add a funtion with a parameter for that and hide the current one in GUI :D |
| 23:35.40 | Bommes | but I guess the flag is by default set to no blend? |
| 23:36.03 | Ahli | so, time to test if 2vs2 interfaces work |
| 23:43.34 | DeadZergling | isn't a fix though, this is a break |
| 23:45.57 | JademusSreg | " <DeadZergling> incoming forum posts about missiles that fly across the entire screen after a teleport, how do I stop that" Hahahaha, yes. |
| 23:46.28 | Ahli | do not move with blend? doesn't that work? |
| 23:46.46 | DeadZergling | dunno yet, not at the editor, I just don't like more work |
| 23:46.52 | Ahli | if you need blend, move to current position without blend, then move with blend |
| 23:47.06 | DeadZergling | which is exactly what this break will do |
| 23:47.23 | JademusSreg | I think Deadz means that regardless of how easy or simple it is to fix, people will post such silly things. =D |
| 23:47.50 | JademusSreg | Because Blizz changed the default shit, haha. |
| 23:47.55 | Ahli | in case that's the case, I can make another thread thingy listing fixes for stuff that breaks |
| 23:48.09 | JademusSreg | Good idea. |
| 23:48.21 | Ahli | I'm switching the text from enGB to enUS and it's not liked by the launcher |
| 23:48.28 | Ahli | initializing... |
| 23:50.16 | JademusSreg | imagines countless hero brawlfightbattle maps broken. |
| 23:50.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster herolief (~herolief@c-24-0-67-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:51.00 | Ahli | win 8.1 bug... processes in windows have no description, displays error code 2 :X |
| 23:51.19 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 23:51.31 | DeadZergling | will result in about 10 minutes of making sure all my moves are no blend, could be quite a lot worse for others |
| 23:52.19 | DeadZergling | hurray for the editor becoming even more complicated? :P |
| 23:53.13 | Ahli | no, it's becoming easier to do physics in editor using triggers |
| 23:53.33 | Ahli | missiles... pah, easy to make them f*ck up... redirect to position, one loop... |
| 23:54.12 | Ahli | my computer is using 99% cpu again... at least I don't notice it when using it |
| 23:54.26 | JademusSreg | Process Explorer |
| 23:54.35 | Ahli | but process list doesn't list anything... win8.1 hides stuff |
| 23:54.44 | DeadZergling | too many missiles trying to track units 250 units away? |
| 23:54.46 | JademusSreg | Even when run as admin?> |
| 23:55.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 23:55.41 | Ahli | yes |
| 23:55.42 | JademusSreg | (aka Show Details For All Processes) |
| 23:55.52 | JademusSreg | Wow, that's at least three flavors of fucked. |
| 23:56.17 | Ahli | restarting makes it go away... |
| 23:56.17 | JademusSreg | Is your OS 32 or 64 bit? |
| 23:56.21 | Ahli | 64 |
| 23:56.33 | Ahli | because I need my full 4gb |
| 23:56.56 | Ahli | I bought 8gb recently, but I'm a special snowflake that kills hardware :D |
| 23:57.40 | JademusSreg | ♥ |
| 23:57.43 | Ahli | note to self: don't put RAM onto the mainboard's RAM slots using the wrong direction :D |
| 23:57.56 | JademusSreg | Which version of Process Explorer is running? |
| 23:57.59 | Ahli | fried it, and 2 RAM slots are dead now :D |
| 23:58.07 | Ahli | task manager? |
| 23:58.16 | JademusSreg | http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx |
| 23:58.33 | Ahli | sysinternals, the thing my prof wanted us to install :D |
| 23:58.36 | JademusSreg | Task manager, hahaha. |
