| 00:40.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster Wrath (a9e915bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.169.233.21.187) |
| 00:40.58 | Wrath | Hey JademusSreg, are you here? |
| 00:49.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-21.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 01:25.23 | JademusSreg | Yes, but you're not. |
| 01:29.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.231.108.226) |
| 01:34.32 | ArcanePariah | Heh |
| 01:34.35 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, are you here? |
| 01:34.46 | ArcanePariah | (I am at least :D ) |
| 01:34.59 | ArcanePariah | Hey Renee, how goes it? |
| 01:35.45 | ArcanePariah | So a couple of Weapon questions |
| 01:36.06 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 01:36.17 | JademusSreg | Yes, and you are too. |
| 01:36.38 | ArcanePariah | 1) Minimum Scan Range is the lowest range a weapon will auto acquire. Does this mean if a target is within that range, it will not auto acquired and must be manually targeted? |
| 01:36.47 | ArcanePariah | not be* |
| 01:37.11 | ArcanePariah | Or better question, what is scanning? |
| 01:37.29 | ArcanePariah | Is the process of constantly seeing what units are possible targets? |
| 01:37.33 | ArcanePariah | Is it* |
| 01:37.35 | JademusSreg | Either that, or it means the scan range is elastic and extends to a maximum scan range. |
| 01:38.16 | JademusSreg | And the process is presumably efficient, and responds to some kind of change. |
| 01:40.29 | JademusSreg | I say "presumably" because other data-based area searches applied each tick are relatively expensive. |
| 01:40.47 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... I think I just had an insight. Acquisition is the process of finding targets. Scanning occurs when the unit is doing a scan move (attack move). There are filters for what units to acquire from call to helps (nearby allies being attacked), and Provoke is the fliters when the unit with the weapon is attacked |
| 01:41.38 | ArcanePariah | So it considers 3 states for possible target acquistion: Targets seen while moving, targets that target oneself, and targets that are targeting allies (who emit a call to help, which is a configurable thing) |
| 01:43.34 | ArcanePariah | I believe the continous scan flag is to force the weapon to constantly reevaulate targets while scanning, so for instance, if you are scanning, and acquire a Target, but another target comes into range, and is higher in acquistion prioriziation (gets closer to you by default) it will switch targets |
| 01:43.56 | JademusSreg | (The phrase "call for help" always makes me think of Earthbound enemies, especially the mushrooms, round orange things, pukes.) |
| 01:44.00 | ArcanePariah | When normally it would simply continue attacking the original target until dead |
| 01:44.14 | ArcanePariah | Or no longer a valid target |
| 01:45.11 | ArcanePariah | Also, from my understanding, the 2 Slops (Arc and Range) indicate the change in angle/range outside the arc/max range before target acquisition is lost, correct? |
| 01:46.17 | JademusSreg | Presumably. Corresponds to aspects of target prioritization. |
| 01:47.38 | ArcanePariah | The impression I get with Acquire Target Sorts is I could alter the default acquistion behavior, so I instead of targeting the closet target, I could instead have it target the lowest HP target within range, and closest among those |
| 02:00.46 | Ahli | yay, I implemented nade cooking |
| 02:01.00 | JademusSreg | Nade cooking? |
| 02:01.07 | ArcanePariah | What magic is this? |
| 02:02.04 | Ahli | when you hold a ticking grenade in your hand and throw it later, so you have more control where it will explode |
| 02:03.01 | Ahli | I don't know, what's the name for that in English? |
| 02:03.25 | Ahli | just translating the German word for that translates to cooking |
| 02:03.55 | JademusSreg | Excellent. What method did you choose? Create Unit + Persistence + Launch Missile or Magazine + Behavior + Launch Missile? |
| 02:04.39 | ArcanePariah | Well if its Magazine, it won't use a launch missile, it will be Use Magazine |
| 02:05.08 | JademusSreg | Unless the unit is created outside the cargo. |
| 02:05.25 | Ahli | launch missile with missile having a behavior. catalog sets the remaining time... releasing mouse1 throws the grenade |
| 02:05.28 | JademusSreg | (Though one still could.) |
| 02:05.37 | ArcanePariah | Which I must ask, why would you ever do that, instead of just Arm Magazine? |
| 02:05.44 | Ahli | jade doesn't know my map ;D |
| 02:05.50 | JademusSreg | You and your catalogs, Ahli, so silly. =D |
| 02:06.25 | Ahli | well, my controls are done with triggers |
| 02:06.40 | Ahli | so that was the easiest solution :D |
| 02:07.24 | Ahli | else I would need to put the behavior onto the player unit and transfer it onto the missile when launched |
| 02:07.35 | ArcanePariah | ... which is easy? |
| 02:07.46 | ArcanePariah | Just tick the flag in Launch mIssle? |
| 02:08.25 | Ahli | well, I quickly implemented the other solution... so I don't care about other solutions I come up with after that :D |
| 02:08.32 | ArcanePariah | Launch Missile already has that built in (Transferring behaviors to the missle and then to the target) |
| 02:09.12 | ArcanePariah | Pfft |
| 02:09.25 | JademusSreg | Term: "satisficing" |
| 02:09.51 | Ahli | now I need a better mover... the default grenade throw mover sucks on distance |
| 02:09.57 | ArcanePariah | Sounds more like: "It compiles! Ship it!" |
| 02:10.17 | Ahli | runs.... quit touching it |
| 02:10.33 | ArcanePariah | Yes... and what code doesn't get touched later? |
| 02:10.44 | Ahli | :D |
| 02:11.25 | ArcanePariah | For this reason, software will never be considered a serious engineering profession... |
| 02:12.40 | Ahli | triple flight time fixes the mover... looks better now... maybe less flight time for short distances now |
| 02:14.02 | ArcanePariah | I wonder how many things people do inefficiently simply because they don't know something better exists in the data editor already? |
| 02:15.20 | Ahli | btw, what's the "mover execute ..." stuff in launch effects? |
| 02:16.50 | ArcanePariah | No idea |
| 02:16.51 | JademusSreg | Ambiguous question. |
| 02:17.24 | JademusSreg | (I don't have it open, so more specific field name would be helpful.) |
| 02:17.27 | ArcanePariah | In the Launch Missile effect, what does the Mover Execute Pattern, Range, Jump Fields do? |
| 02:17.33 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 02:18.00 | ArcanePariah | It would seem those fields are incorporated into the mover in some fashion |
| 02:18.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 02:18.59 | ArcanePariah | The Jump one I can only see being used by Broodlings when launched by a Broodlord, which sugguest the intial jump they do right before the mover takes over, so Jump would indicate a change in height of the missile before mover begins |
| 02:22.14 | ArcanePariah | Mover Jump is never used afaict |
| 02:22.20 | ArcanePariah | Only Rolling Jump by broodlings |
| 02:22.57 | ArcanePariah | Arguably that is my biggest frustration with Blizzard, the combined non documentation of fields with non usage, leaving no theoretical room to infer anything about a given field |
| 02:23.31 | ArcanePariah | I wonder how much effort it would take to document all the fields |
| 02:23.50 | ArcanePariah | (Rhetorical question, since as we've discussed before, probably will never happen) |
| 02:25.24 | JademusSreg | Rolling Jump and Execute Jump are only used in instances where multiple movers are defined for the same range, applicable for Brood Lord broodling launches and Leviathan scourge launches. |
| 02:25.58 | JademusSreg | Number doesn't appear to vary, either, set to 1 in either instance, regardless of movers in the set. |
| 02:26.17 | ArcanePariah | Oh... I understand this now, I had a simialr thing with attach methods |
| 02:26.23 | JademusSreg | However, it is paralleled by AM, yes. |
| 02:26.43 | ArcanePariah | The number, if I remember correctly, is the movers to increment |
| 02:27.14 | ArcanePariah | So for Execute Jump, once you run the effect with mover 1, add Execute Jump and do that mover next time |
| 02:27.42 | JademusSreg | Which means it must refer to how they are applied. Bounce back and forth, start to finish, or Stripe, linear across the array reset to start. |
| 02:27.43 | ArcanePariah | And Rolling Jump is probably the increment added when you roll around back to the first index |
| 02:28.29 | ArcanePariah | Yes, Attach Methods had something similar, how Marauders switch launch points for each attack |
| 02:28.36 | JademusSreg | Yep. |
| 02:29.05 | JademusSreg | And this is why your handle is set to blue. =D |
| 02:29.41 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 02:43.28 | ArcanePariah | So... as long as one saves SC2Mod and SC2 Maps as SC2Component, once can properly use them in the context of a modern version control system, yes? |
| 02:46.18 | Ahli | what are you going to use? |
| 02:46.25 | ArcanePariah | Also, is the Text module effectively an aggregation of all files found under LocalizedData (TriggerStrings.txt, ObjectStrings, etc.) |
| 02:46.59 | ArcanePariah | Well, for the colloboration with JademusSreg, it was indicated Git would be used (which is something I ought to become familiar with) |
| 02:52.09 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 02:52.21 | JademusSreg | Though one must save as a map before publishing. |
| 02:53.58 | ArcanePariah | Of course, but I imagine with some creativity and examination, one could script that |
| 02:54.18 | ArcanePariah | So just close, run somescript.py, and it will repackage it correctly |
| 02:54.59 | ArcanePariah | In fact... can't you just script MPQEditor to do the job, since all an SC2Map is, is a MPQ? |
| 02:55.28 | ArcanePariah | Package all the correct components into the MPQ and save, and you are done? |
| 02:55.29 | JademusSreg | Easier if one knows the command line arguments for the editor or MPQEditor. |
| 02:55.38 | ArcanePariah | Well, they are given... |
| 02:56.10 | JademusSreg | The SC2 editor's command line arguments are documented? |
| 02:56.41 | ArcanePariah | MPQEditor are, SC2 I would assume not, but one could examine crash logs and see how some of the stuff plays out for the editor |
| 02:57.23 | JademusSreg | Haha, StarCraft 2: most poorly documented platform evar. |
| 02:58.43 | ArcanePariah | Welp, by simple examiniation of an error log from Test Mode, one can infer much |
| 02:59.03 | ArcanePariah | -run is passed the path to the map being run |
| 02:59.29 | ArcanePariah | -displaymode indicates fullscreen/windowedfullsceen/windowed (0,1,2 respectively) |
| 02:59.44 | ArcanePariah | Not sure what reloadcheck does |
| 03:00.05 | ArcanePariah | difficulty/speed/meleemod are self explainatory |
| 03:00.29 | ArcanePariah | -testconfig is passed the testing parameters that are generated |
| 03:01.22 | ArcanePariah | Which has within it the game attributes needed for test mode I guess, all it has is the following |
| 03:01.33 | ArcanePariah | <TestConfig> |
| 03:01.35 | ArcanePariah | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:01.36 | ArcanePariah | </TestConfig> |
| 03:02.09 | ArcanePariah | Didn't know Attributes had different namespaces, guess for different catagories? (Color/Race/Speed, etc.) |
| 03:08.25 | ArcanePariah | Your comment earlier reminded me of a question JademusSreg: Why is it that so much software is either not documented, or very poorly documented, or worse, require so much documentation that it becomes useless? I have heard stories that most official documentations are so useless that it is easier to simply ask on StackOverflow or check previous StackOverflow answers |
| 03:11.21 | JademusSreg | Documentation, where it does exist, usually isn't in a shape that fits the way in which people learn, but rather fulfills distant managerial or technical specification. |
| 03:12.17 | ArcanePariah | So.... the writers, through lack of time, experience or suitable room to write, do not properly consider their audience and thus fail before they write a sentence? |
| 03:12.41 | JademusSreg | Humans, on the other hand, make great storytellers, and adaptable ones at that, helps to present the information in a context understandable to other humans. |
| 03:12.54 | ArcanePariah | Explains why Wiki's are fairly popular and same with StackOverflow |
| 03:13.12 | ArcanePariah | The audience writes the story/documentation |
| 03:13.23 | ArcanePariah | Which more often then not, works |
| 03:13.37 | ArcanePariah | Though mob rule is a ever present spectre |
| 03:13.41 | ArcanePariah | an* |
| 03:14.03 | JademusSreg | Documentation also requires resources to maintain, and for it to be accurate must be maintained in tandem with development of the project. |
| 03:14.28 | ArcanePariah | Which requires good planning and thus good direction, which as well know, is quite often not the case :D |
| 03:14.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster A1win (a1win@217.112.241.121) |
| 03:15.20 | ArcanePariah | Slightly depressing that often times, the solutions for many problems are known, however the participants do not know or worse, are forbidden to exercise said solutions |
| 03:16.07 | ArcanePariah | Since being correct <<<<<< being polite/tactful/scared, since decisions are made by humans (who more often then not, are irrational) |
| 03:17.27 | JademusSreg | I value the former in technical contexts, the latter in political contexts. |
| 03:18.00 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but sadly, individuals sometimes conflate the 2 |
| 03:26.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster turtles1 (~dave3@d27-99-1-57.bla802.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 03:46.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Wrath (a9e915bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.169.233.21.187) |
| 03:47.05 | Wrath | JademusSreg, are you here? :P :P :P :P |
| 03:54.15 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 03:54.27 | JademusSreg | Just coded the round phases, woo. |
| 03:54.41 | JademusSreg | Gotta test, see if it's playable. |
| 03:55.03 | Wrath | Ah hey! I have been trying to talk to you on here for a day or two :P |
| 03:55.12 | Wrath | I was wondering if you've ever successfully made a custom list box |
| 03:56.41 | JademusSreg | In what sense? |
| 03:56.55 | JademusSreg | Also, brb in 5 |
| 03:57.39 | Wrath | Hooking up / creating from template a dialog item descended from list box |
| 03:57.52 | Wrath | The main point being you can scroll down it using the mouse wheel |
| 03:58.19 | Wrath | But put more in it than just the text that you can with the existing list box trigger actions |
| 03:59.51 | Wrath | Ahli you could possibly know how to do this, I think |
| 04:01.23 | Ahli | never tried that |
| 04:04.15 | turtles1 | How would you go about making a custom list box? |
| 04:04.38 | Wrath | Well the triggers don't support it the way I want it |
| 04:04.44 | turtles1 | I've created my own version for what I'm working on, however there is no way to detect mouse scrolls |
| 04:04.47 | Wrath | The triggers only support putting text in it |
| 04:04.56 | Wrath | And there is no mouse scroll detection except for those text version |
| 04:04.57 | turtles1 | so I have an up/down button |
| 04:05.06 | Wrath | However, the existing game UI |
| 04:05.12 | Wrath | Such as the hotkey panel and the help panel |
| 04:05.16 | Wrath | Have scrolling functionality |
| 04:05.24 | Wrath | Despite using other types of items |
| 04:05.27 | Wrath | Like panels and buttonsa |
| 04:05.33 | Wrath | Instead of just text |
| 04:05.40 | Wrath | So the idea would be to create a UI template LIKE them |
| 04:05.46 | Wrath | And use triggers to create from template |
| 04:05.51 | Wrath | OR to hookup an existing one |
| 04:05.53 | Wrath | And modify it |
| 04:06.00 | JademusSreg | Well, adding elements to it from the API would be, er, problematic, but custom listboxes with custom list items, that's doable. |
| 04:06.13 | Wrath | Right now |
| 04:06.18 | Wrath | I don't even know how to do that |
| 04:06.21 | Wrath | So I beg your help on it |
| 04:06.22 | Wrath | But |
| 04:06.24 | Wrath | Once that was done |
| 04:06.28 | Wrath | Could the list items be hooked up |
| 04:06.33 | Wrath | To add stuff to as with a panel? |
| 04:07.10 | JademusSreg | If you can get some form of reference to it, sure. |
| 04:07.38 | Wrath | Alright, I wanna try it then |
| 04:07.50 | Wrath | Can you help me out with the custom list and items then? |
| 04:08.18 | JademusSreg | I recall there may be a way to reference such sub frames, but the details are fuzzy, Arc may remember. |
| 04:08.28 | Wrath | My first idea is |
| 04:08.39 | Wrath | To use the in-game UI viewer |
| 04:08.42 | Wrath | To find their path |
| 04:08.46 | Wrath | And try hooking it up |
| 04:08.50 | JademusSreg | As for the custom list, that's simple enough. It has the ItemDesc field, which sets the kind of sub frame it uses, |
| 04:09.14 | ArcanePariah | Wrath, you hookup the Item you want, then once you have that, you can hookup the items within it |
| 04:09.22 | ArcanePariah | using Hookup From Dialog Item |
| 04:09.31 | Wrath | I figured as much |
| 04:09.34 | Wrath | Thanks :D |
| 04:09.46 | Wrath | Jademus what frame type would you use for the items? |
| 04:09.51 | Wrath | If I'm not mistaken there |
| 04:09.56 | Wrath | Is no generic list box item type |
| 04:10.09 | JademusSreg | You'd use whatever frame type you want; that's rather the point. |
| 04:10.20 | Wrath | Mmm okay |
| 04:10.33 | Wrath | I'll probably just choose whichever one has explicitly listed the most values already |
| 04:10.37 | Wrath | At least then I know what I'm getting |
| 04:10.40 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 04:11.02 | Wrath | Thanks! I'm gonna work at it then |
| 04:11.07 | JademusSreg | No problem. |
| 04:11.20 | Wrath | Oh uhh |
| 04:11.24 | Wrath | One other thing |
| 04:11.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-201-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:11.28 | Wrath | How do you get the items into the list? |
| 04:11.44 | ArcanePariah | There is a trigger action for that |
| 04:11.45 | Wrath | I haven't seen any examples of it in the layout files |
| 04:11.50 | Wrath | Ah okay |
| 04:11.58 | Wrath | So just give it a text of "" or something then |
| 04:12.24 | ArcanePariah | Action is called Add List Item |
| 04:12.33 | Wrath | Right and it only takes text |
| 04:12.37 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 04:14.27 | JademusSreg | There's a tutorial you could do, Arc; people have been asking about custom list items since roughly forever. |
| 04:14.37 | ArcanePariah | Oh Really? |
| 04:14.56 | ArcanePariah | Interesting |
| 04:15.44 | Wrath | If I can get it working I'd be happy to do it otherwise |
| 04:16.31 | ArcanePariah | Nah, I'll probably do it, been kind of on a roll of sorts of doing tutorials on esoteric editor stuff, mostly actors, but looking around, looks like many topics need tutorials |
| 04:16.39 | Wrath | Cool :D I look forward to it then |
| 04:18.08 | Wrath | I might create a tutorial sooner or later on good dialog design |
| 04:18.17 | Wrath | I know there already is one but it's kind of dated IMO |
| 04:18.26 | Wrath | It doesn't touch on every topic |
| 04:18.45 | Wrath | I think the large majority of people don't even know that the game scales stuff up based on the player's resolution |
| 04:19.15 | Wrath | This makes designing a fullscreen dialog very confusing to them |
| 04:24.15 | Ahli | hmmm, how do I just create an actor force sphere where an effect occurs? |
| 04:25.16 | Ahli | my one is based on WidowMineAttackForceSecondary |
| 04:39.16 | turtles1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.37 | ArcanePariah | Before I go racing off to make said tutorial, what do you all mean by custom lists? |
| 04:41.13 | Wrath | A list box that can hold |
| 04:41.16 | Wrath | Non-text items |
| 04:41.22 | Wrath | Stuff like buttons |
| 04:41.23 | Wrath | Images |
| 04:41.24 | Wrath | Etc. |
| 04:41.28 | turtles1 | what he said |
| 04:41.30 | Wrath | The current triggers support adding only text |
| 04:41.42 | turtles1 | basically a list box with dialogs for items |
| 04:41.46 | Wrath | ^ |
| 04:42.08 | turtles1 | so that players can create their own list box items by attaching pics/buttons/text however they want |
| 04:42.08 | Wrath | The main purpose being that it works with mouse scrolling |
| 04:42.27 | Wrath | I.E. the result we care about is a panel with mouse scroll functionality |
| 04:43.46 | turtles1 | Also would have to be edited on the fly |
| 04:43.59 | turtles1 | not created once with set elements |
| 04:44.08 | turtles1 | but the ability to add/subtract items |
| 04:44.17 | Wrath | Ah well |
| 04:44.20 | ArcanePariah | Ok... hmm... I think I know how this could be accomplished... would involve a trigger or 2, but yes, I think this could be done |
| 04:44.29 | Wrath | Personally I'd be fine if the list box items had to be added by layout |
| 04:44.37 | Wrath | I'm still not sure how to hook up the list box items |
| 04:44.42 | Wrath | That's gonna be my big hurdle |
| 04:45.21 | turtles1 | Any solution you make you could also add a few triggers to interact with it. |
| 04:46.00 | turtles1 | such as Add(list box, dialog, position) |
| 04:46.11 | turtles1 | and remove(list box, position) |
| 04:46.41 | turtles1 | all the other things like clear, combine, copy etcetcetc could be done easily by the user by that stage |
| 04:48.36 | turtles1 | Oh, you would also need a way to detect when a player clicks a list box item |
| 04:48.53 | turtles1 | so that would be three essential functions/triggers |
| 04:49.50 | Wrath | S.O.B. this is annoying |
| 04:49.56 | Wrath | I can't get rid of the background of this ListBox |
| 04:51.14 | JademusSreg | First test of pause indicates it has a problem with missiles, not units launched as missiles, but missiles of some sort. |
| 04:55.45 | turtles1 | Does anyone know if the slide bar accepts mouse wheel scrolls? |
| 04:56.18 | turtles1 | if so then you could put an invisible scroll bar over any dialog you wanted and viola, easy way to create a custom list box |
| 04:56.41 | ArcanePariah | If you are referring to Slider elements, yes they do |
| 04:56.48 | turtles1 | by detecting changes to the scroll bar value (there is a trigger for that) |
| 04:57.04 | ArcanePariah | And yes that does work, I use it for NotD 2 |
| 04:57.07 | turtles1 | mind = blown |
| 04:57.17 | ArcanePariah | If you want another example of it in action, see SCU |
| 04:57.25 | ArcanePariah | Their color customization uses the same |
| 04:57.51 | turtles1 | invisible slider elements to detect mouse wheel scrolling? |
| 04:57.59 | ArcanePariah | Sure |
| 04:58.22 | ArcanePariah | And yes, you can alter the max/min values of a slider + the value increments of each tick of the slider |
| 04:58.44 | turtles1 | After all the "How can we detect mouse wheel scrolls" questions I've seen online I've never seen that as an answer |
| 04:59.05 | ArcanePariah | *Shrug* |
| 04:59.21 | turtles1 | In which case I don't need a custom list box tutorial |
| 04:59.34 | turtles1 | I've already created my own using dialogs and triggers |
| 04:59.49 | turtles1 | All it was missing was mouse wheel scroll functionality. WOOP! |
| 05:05.06 | turtles1 | Once I've finished my own project I might tidy up my code and make it a bit more "general purpose" and release it as a trigger library for anyone who wants a custom list box |
| 05:47.01 | turtles1 | ArcanePariah: I just realised that if there is an invisible slider element over the top of a dialog to detect mouse wheel scrolls. Then it will also pick up mouse click events preventing a player from selecting items in the list. Do you overcome that by using the "get mouse click X and Y coordinates" function to calculate where the click would have been on the dialog behind it? Or do you have a more elegant solution? |
| 05:47.50 | ArcanePariah | You can disable the mouse clicks, make the slider not accept left or right button clicks |
| 05:48.19 | turtles1 | And then they get picked up by the dialog items beneath? cool! thanks for the tip |
| 05:48.35 | ArcanePariah | I believe so |
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| 06:06.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.103.33.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 06:06.37 | ArcanePariah | Welcome back G0A :D |
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| 06:12.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster turtles2 (~dave3@d27-99-10-151.bla802.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 06:36.15 | G0A | welcome |
| 06:36.21 | G0A | I see NOTD funded:D |
| 06:36.55 | ArcanePariah | Yep :D |
| 06:41.45 | JademusSreg | Congrats. |
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| 07:30.31 | kingTD | Zolden sup with the earliness? |
| 07:33.13 | Zolden | oh you! joined before me! |
| 07:33.22 | Zolden | next time i'll beat you with the earliness! |
| 07:34.05 | Zolden | just had shit to do, so shifted time, and it feels good, like if lightday longer |
| 07:42.48 | G0A | 08:11-> kingTD has joined sc2mapster |
| 07:42.49 | G0A | 08:21-> Zolden has joined sc2mapster |
| 07:43.16 | kingTD | lies |
| 07:43.30 | kingTD | (09:11:36) NickServ: (notice) You are now identified for kingTD. |
| 07:43.35 | kingTD | (09:21:25) Zolden [Zolden@88.135.4.202] entered the room. |
| 07:52.43 | *** part/#sc2mapster turtles2 (~dave3@d27-99-10-151.bla802.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 07:53.01 | Zolden | welol, 10 minutes happened between hitler shot himself in the moustache and his generals wanted to report that nuclear bomb is ready and they can win the war, but it didn't help him |
| 07:54.15 | Zolden | 10 minutes is the time you can travel 4800 times around the world with the speed of light |
| 07:55.09 | Zolden | 10 minutes is a time you can eat and shit: mass didn't change, body entropy lowered |
| 07:55.24 | ArcanePariah | Though ironically, if you did so, next to no time would pass for yourself, if going near speed of light |
| 07:55.41 | ArcanePariah | Relativity is an amazing thing |
| 07:57.20 | Zolden | ArcanePariah i'm not sure, imagine a timer in the center of the earth. My speed or distance relatively to that timer won't change during the flight around the earth |
| 07:58.10 | ArcanePariah | Correct, so the timer would pass 10 minutes. You yourself would only pass maybe a second or 2 |
| 07:58.20 | ArcanePariah | Depends on frame of reference |
| 07:59.12 | ArcanePariah | Time Dilation ftw |
| 08:00.07 | Zolden | local time doesn't change, it will be 10 minutes for me, but for the observer I move relatively to with the speed near lightspeed, will think I was moving for only ~1 second |
| 08:01.23 | ArcanePariah | Correct, it is a product of spacetime itself being warped |
| 08:03.36 | ArcanePariah | But no, you would experience time faster then everyone around you, so 10 minutes for you would be the same as 11 (or higher) minutes for those outside |
| 08:03.44 | Zolden | so, with the speed of light we theoretically can travel infinite amount of circles around the world |
| 08:04.02 | Zolden | during 10 minutes |
| 08:04.11 | Zolden | because time completely stops |
| 08:04.14 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 08:04.36 | Zolden | it's paradoxal |
| 08:04.52 | ArcanePariah | According to the current relativity equations, at the speed of light, you would be stopped in time, and be have infinite mass (be everywhere at once) |
| 08:04.58 | ArcanePariah | Yes, thus it is consider impossible |
| 08:05.10 | ArcanePariah | In the exact eqautions you would get a divide by 0 |
| 08:05.36 | Zolden | because for center of the earth i don't move, and for surface I do move. their timers don't shift relatively each other, but mine does shift relatively one of them |
| 08:05.40 | ArcanePariah | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation#Time_dilation_due_to_relative_velocity |
| 08:06.00 | ArcanePariah | And actually, all are moving, just depends relative to what |
| 08:06.13 | ArcanePariah | There is no such thing as a non inertial (non accelerating) frame of reference |
| 08:06.44 | Zolden | yes, mass can't reach light of speed, so it won't be infinite amount of circles |
| 08:06.52 | ArcanePariah | Since you and I are moving according to the rotation of the planet, the planet rotates about the Sun/Star, our star system orbits the galaxy, and galaxy orbits a cluster |
| 08:07.10 | ArcanePariah | And clusters also move about each other |
| 08:08.26 | ArcanePariah | Though there is some theories of particles where the speed of light is the minimum speed |
| 08:08.33 | ArcanePariah | are some* |
| 08:09.30 | Zolden | it doesn't slove the paradox, still I can move relatively to some dude, and not move relatively to another dude, and they are moving with speed = 0 relatively to each other, so my timer should show different time of them, but their timers didnt' change, so it's a paradox |
| 08:10.08 | ArcanePariah | Well, that wiki article discusses that very fact, how one must determine what events are occurring simultaneously |
| 08:10.25 | ArcanePariah | And also, you contradicted yourself :D |
| 08:10.41 | Zolden | where I contradicted |
| 08:10.44 | ArcanePariah | Va > Vb = Vc = Va |
| 08:11.00 | ArcanePariah | Ifyou are moving relative to a dude, your velocity is greater then his |
| 08:11.15 | ArcanePariah | and if you are not moving relative to a 2nd dude, your velocity is equal |
| 08:11.23 | ArcanePariah | and if they have eqaul velocity |
| 08:11.39 | ArcanePariah | You therefore have the same velocity as both of them |
| 08:11.43 | ArcanePariah | or neither of them |
| 08:13.26 | Zolden | it's relative speed, one dude's distance line to me is parallel to my speed vector, so my relative speed is c, while another dude's distance to me is perpendicular to my speed vector, so his relative speed = 0 due to projection of my speed vector to the distance line = 0 |
| 08:14.00 | Zolden | oh, so velocity matters, not the speed? |
| 08:14.13 | ArcanePariah | Velocity is speed with direction |
| 08:14.38 | ArcanePariah | And yes, now that you have indicated multiple velocities, I can see the difference |
| 08:15.33 | ArcanePariah | And if someone is traveling perpeiculer to you, then his relative velocity would not be 0 |
| 08:15.40 | ArcanePariah | be a trig function |
| 08:16.23 | Zolden | but in the same time, there is a chance that velocity doesn't matter, only acceleration matters, and since I have accelerated relatively to the system of 2 observers, my time has squeezed equally for both of them, even if momentary velocity is different |
| 08:16.45 | Zolden | that would solve the paradox |
| 08:16.52 | Zolden | and I hope it does |
| 08:17.06 | ArcanePariah | Velocity implies acceleration, since acceleration is simply change of velocity |
| 08:18.10 | Zolden | I remember something about accelerating relatively to a system, not to points of the system |
| 08:19.08 | Zolden | so if all points of the inertial system don't move to each other, my acceleration is equally affects time scale relatively each point of that inertial system |
| 08:19.16 | ArcanePariah | Yes, acceleration is based on frame of reference as well. To have a truly correct speed, one would need to be in a non accelerating reference frame. Problem is, no such thing exists except for light itself |
| 08:19.42 | ArcanePariah | Hence why speed of light is considered special, it has the same speed no matter the reference frame |
| 08:22.21 | ArcanePariah | Basically, we live in a universe where everything is accelerating except light, and thus everything appears distorted, except light |
| 08:22.34 | ArcanePariah | even space itself gets distorted |
| 08:22.40 | ArcanePariah | See: Black Holes |
| 08:23.05 | ArcanePariah | And to this day, we still have 0 idea how gravity is created or why it works |
| 08:24.28 | Zolden | it feels like mathematically we can consider a system of points which don't move relatively to each other as a frame, and then use any point of this frame as a relative point |
| 08:24.50 | ArcanePariah | We can |
| 08:25.04 | Zolden | ok, so no paradox |
| 08:25.17 | ArcanePariah | The problem being, no such frame exists in real life |
| 08:25.23 | ArcanePariah | But yes, no paradox |
| 08:25.28 | Zolden | yea, we don't know how gravity works, it's sad |
| 08:25.51 | Zolden | i hope physics can one day understand everything about the universe |
| 08:25.55 | Zolden | just everything |
| 08:26.32 | ArcanePariah | Well... first off, never can do that, see Quantum Mechanics, which is based on probabilities, not exactitudes, though we do somewhat understand it |
| 08:26.44 | Zolden | because there is a question: why universe exists, or even wider: why anything exists, I'd rather expect nothing ever existed, just complete nonexistance |
| 08:27.05 | ArcanePariah | At this point we have now shifted into metaphysics and philosophy |
| 08:28.10 | Zolden | the question of existance must have physical answer |
| 08:28.14 | Zolden | not metaphysical |
| 08:28.24 | Zolden | because it's a kind of a property of nature |
| 08:28.51 | Zolden | when existance spontaneosly replaces nonexistance |
| 08:30.54 | Zolden | and yes, quantum stuff is tricky, but it's working... maybe one day science + tech will be able to connect quantum computer to the brain and let some part of the consciousness be calculated on it, so we expand our logic to understand quantum stuff |
| 08:33.45 | ArcanePariah | Possibly |
| 08:34.17 | ArcanePariah | I would really enjoy another tech breakthrough, hasn't been much lately, just iteration and refinement |
| 08:35.05 | Zolden | and what was the latest one? |
| 08:35.34 | ArcanePariah | Well, transistor was a major tech breakthrough |
| 08:35.42 | Zolden | agree |
| 08:36.05 | ArcanePariah | But we are reaching the limit of how much refinement we can do |
| 08:36.18 | ArcanePariah | Solar panels are becoming cost effective, but nothing revolutionary |
| 08:36.24 | ArcanePariah | same with electric stuff |
| 08:36.28 | ArcanePariah | like cars |
| 08:36.38 | Zolden | computers thing now feels like reached the stage of saturation, and need a core change |
| 08:36.45 | ArcanePariah | Indeed |
| 08:37.05 | ArcanePariah | Basically it feels like hardware as been played out, now to turn to software and new algos |
| 08:37.23 | Zolden | immortality may be somehow invented, and this will stimulate spaceflights, to avoid overpopulating |
| 08:38.04 | Zolden | if ti will be the AI, it will be a disaster |
| 08:38.33 | ArcanePariah | Overpopulation is already a solved problem |
| 08:38.42 | ArcanePariah | Just will take some time |
| 08:39.01 | Zolden | it's solved for mortal humans |
| 08:39.06 | Zolden | self-solved |
| 08:39.17 | ArcanePariah | Even for immortal humans its solved |
| 08:39.23 | ArcanePariah | Educate everyone |
| 08:39.40 | ArcanePariah | Exhibit A: Japan. They are dying |
| 08:40.01 | ArcanePariah | At current projected rates, they will cease to exist as a culture in the next century |
| 08:40.12 | Zolden | it's still mortal solution, you can't have infinite kids, so they have 1 |
| 08:40.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 08:40.38 | ArcanePariah | That's the point, long lived, well educated people are having 1 or 0 kids |
| 08:41.05 | ArcanePariah | Personal anecdote. Grandfather on father side had 7 siblings |
| 08:41.10 | ArcanePariah | He had 7 kids |
| 08:41.14 | Zolden | long life mean you can have any, 1 kid every 30 years. for example |
| 08:41.21 | ArcanePariah | His 7 kids only had combined 10 kids |
| 08:41.34 | ArcanePariah | and of those 10 kids, only half of them have kids at all |
| 08:41.36 | ArcanePariah | currently |
| 08:41.44 | Zolden | yea, 10 children situation was ok 100-150 years ago |
| 08:41.53 | Zolden | 05 usually die |
| 08:41.57 | Zolden | *0-5 |
| 08:41.58 | ArcanePariah | Now, pretty normal to have 1, or 2 |
| 08:42.08 | ArcanePariah | And for my generation, normal to have 0 - 2 |
| 08:43.09 | Zolden | yea, because life standards imply 25 years of education, big personal apartments and other stuff, an one can't afford to have this to himself and to more then 1-2 kids |
| 08:43.30 | Zolden | not sure about japans |
| 08:43.44 | Zolden | their infrastructure requires alot of educated people |
| 08:44.13 | Zolden | if it lack of workers, their life standards go down, and they again start to have more children |
| 08:45.54 | Zolden | but there's deeper layer of reasoning |
| 08:46.32 | Zolden | there is a chance that the global competition quietly happening during the centuries between cultures |
| 08:46.41 | Zolden | some great cultures disappear |
| 08:46.46 | Zolden | like roman civilization |
| 08:46.58 | Zolden | and barbarian just take their place |
| 08:48.30 | Zolden | the thing is to maintain a high tech level, but not fall in the temptation of consumerism, because its discource makes ppl have low amount of kids and extinct during time |
| 08:49.12 | Zolden | and modern west civilization maybe got caught in this trap |
| 08:49.25 | Zolden | so the culture should evolve or die from barbarians |
| 08:49.47 | G0A | Hmm If I make a dialog item then its parent is dialog by default? |
| 08:50.36 | Zolden | dialogs don't have more then 1-2 dialog items these days |
| 08:51.19 | ArcanePariah | G0A, depends, you can create dialog items inside dialog items of type panel |
| 09:02.03 | JademusSreg | Here's the round-based, phase-divided prototype (interface stuff NYI): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/JAD%20Prototype.SC2Map |
| 09:03.24 | Zolden | why not upload and test in multiplayer? |
| 09:04.02 | JademusSreg | Gotta say, do not want. Idea seemed interesting, but feels like juggling dogshit under the influence of dex and opiates in addition to very much needing to piss. Which is to say, difficult, agonizing, terrible. |
| 09:05.46 | kingTD | WHY THE FUCK THAT ROOF IS SHININIGNIGNG |
| 09:08.14 | Zolden | screen |
| 09:13.20 | kingTD | http://snag.gy/Vao8w.jpg |
| 09:13.26 | kingTD | aslmost same texture |
| 09:13.36 | kingTD | still Storage fucker roof brighter |
| 09:13.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@78.97.98.119) |
| 09:14.29 | Zolden | it has different angle to camera |
| 09:14.38 | Zolden | so, specularity is stronger |
| 09:19.13 | kingTD | yeah |
| 09:19.37 | kingTD | rotating the model showed it |
| 09:22.19 | JademusSreg | Annoyed the mechanic isn't viable, need a new idea worth developing. |
| 09:37.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 09:42.31 | kingTD | fuck taht roooooooof |
| 09:42.39 | kingTD | spent like 2 hours just for that |
| 09:44.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-201-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:51.44 | Zolden | modelling is very time consuming |
| 09:53.21 | Zolden | it's also stupid, cause of low brain usage, so no intellectual satisfaction |
| 09:54.32 | Zolden | the only reward - visual prettiness of the model |
| 09:54.48 | Zolden | but it's a rare situation |
| 09:55.13 | Zolden | especially when you are not an artist, like you, twod, and like me |
| 09:58.46 | kingTD | well im much closer to that title than u!! at least in the sense of modelling and colors shit |
| 10:00.18 | G0A | well Zolden's models feel like that he is on high while making them:) |
| 10:01.49 | kingTD | he not really making them |
| 10:01.56 | kingTD | just applying random textures on them |
| 10:02.03 | kingTD | that have basic sense of color |
| 10:02.15 | kingTD | and textures for him have to shine |
| 10:02.25 | kingTD | shinning is the only thing that keeps him happy |
| 10:10.09 | Zolden | :)) |
| 10:12.12 | Zolden | I made 1 model, completely from my imagination and sence of spatial harmony, this one http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/images/55/738/syberia_fighter_1.jpg |
| 10:12.30 | Zolden | others are remakes of RoL models or retextures of wow ones |
| 10:12.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster Princess_Lun (~IceChat77@user-105n0q0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 10:22.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bommes (~Bommes@ipkn-70.koenigsnet.rwth-aachen.de) |
| 10:28.56 | kingTD | high as the sky |
| 10:29.30 | kingTD | imagination full of bunnies and unicorns |
| 10:52.38 | kingTD | btw http://snag.gy/ZIBDu.jpg |
| 10:52.51 | kingTD | LOOK AT THOSE ANIMATIONS |
| 10:53.58 | kingTD | time to pooo a litle |
| 10:55.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-149-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 10:56.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.226.228.56) |
| 11:01.47 | G0A | Slime is wow model? |
| 11:05.18 | Zolden | slime is Triceron's model |
| 11:05.24 | Zolden | with wow anims |
| 11:06.45 | Zolden | kingTD nice smoke, hope it's not more than 20 particles |
| 11:08.05 | Zolden | kingTD also, add more chaos to that smoke: add contineous noise function to the pitch and yaw of the smoke particle |
| 11:08.33 | Zolden | also, more size/rotation/alpha/color/speed/lifetime randomization |
| 11:08.50 | Zolden | the more parameters you randomize, the more natural it will look |
| 11:08.51 | kingTD | how its not 20? sure its above that |
| 11:09.22 | Zolden | if each player will have only 1-2 of this buldging, it's ok |
| 11:10.42 | kingTD | 3 generators ~25, smoke 120 |
| 11:11.03 | Zolden | also, vertical/horizontal spread can also have a contineous noise function, but just a little, and with low frequency |
| 11:11.20 | Zolden | 120 is too much, but ok |
| 11:12.29 | kingTD | g0a what cpu, gpu u have? |
| 11:12.39 | kingTD | zolden how about u too about that? |
| 11:13.42 | Zolden | http://i.snag.gy/W6qBe.jpg |
| 11:13.59 | Zolden | this steam has about 40 particles, and still look ok |
| 11:14.08 | Zolden | and still it's too much |
| 11:14.14 | Zolden | kingTD what gpu? |
| 11:14.41 | kingTD | processors of visual and other calculations |
| 11:15.01 | Zolden | i only remember that cpu has 4 cores |
| 11:15.11 | kingTD | lol |
| 11:15.22 | Zolden | not a nerd to remember more |
| 11:15.27 | Zolden | *geek |
| 11:15.48 | kingTD | u can dl ccleaner to get izi access to ur specifications of pc |
| 11:16.00 | kingTD | sure u can do it without dl any viruses |
| 11:16.02 | kingTD | but still |
| 11:18.40 | Zolden | 2.4GHz |
| 11:18.44 | Zolden | core frequency |
| 11:19.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster Wrath (a9e915bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.169.233.21.187) |
| 11:21.44 | kingTD | lod cut can disable particle system at all and lod reduction is how working? it depends of graphical settings? does disables too? or does some kind of reductions |
| 11:21.58 | kingTD | now reading explantions on tools |
| 11:22.02 | kingTD | not clear still |
| 11:25.18 | kingTD | Zolden do u use flag in foot prints that checks if the target unit is masked? |
| 11:25.26 | kingTD | like in fog of war? |
| 11:27.02 | Wrath | So... If I set a UI element to only accept middle mouse button |
| 11:27.17 | kingTD | imba |
| 11:27.18 | Wrath | I still have to have it accept mouse in order for it to get middle mouse button |
| 11:27.25 | Wrath | But then |
| 11:27.35 | Wrath | Any other mouse buttons |
| 11:27.41 | Wrath | Still won't be able to reach the items beneath it |
| 11:27.50 | Wrath | Even though they're not accepted |
| 11:27.54 | Wrath | LAAAME |
| 11:28.25 | Wrath | Is Dustin in here supposed to be Dustin Browder? (lulz) |
| 11:29.31 | Zolden | kingTD lod reduction doesn't show particle/splat/ribbon when there are too much shit on screen, to save perfomance |
| 11:29.58 | kingTD | there are dustins than u could imagine! |
| 11:30.03 | Zolden | kingTD dno't think i know anything about foot print flags |
| 11:31.08 | kingTD | there is check flag that if unit fog it wont be able to build |
| 11:31.14 | kingTD | u should check footprints |
| 11:33.45 | Zolden | do you mean by this that it may be a possible fi for the double mine? |
| 11:33.54 | Zolden | *fix |
| 11:33.55 | Wrath | AH |
| 11:33.56 | Wrath | AHAHAHAHAHA |
| 11:34.02 | Wrath | YES |
| 11:34.09 | Wrath | Ah man |
| 11:34.18 | Wrath | Just figured this out |
| 11:34.25 | kingTD | zol at least give it a try |
| 11:34.31 | kingTD | plus |
| 11:34.32 | Wrath | I'm trying to put an invisible slider on top of a panel right |
| 11:34.38 | Wrath | But then you can't click on things beneath it |
| 11:34.38 | kingTD | test it in game sp |
| 11:34.49 | Zolden | ok |
| 11:34.49 | Wrath | But if I set the slider to be click on mouse down |
| 11:34.56 | Wrath | And then on use hide it |
| 11:35.11 | Wrath | All the elements beneath should be accessible :D |
| 11:35.17 | kingTD | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHD6ZJcNfQc |
| 11:35.28 | kingTD | http://snag.gy/Mmqb2.jpg |
| 11:36.56 | G0A | kingTD my PC sucks big time |
| 11:37.04 | Zolden | nice cannon |
| 11:37.07 | kingTD | tell me more about it |
| 11:37.28 | kingTD | that black dildo is good |
| 11:45.21 | kingTD | g0a so how sepecificly crappy is it? |
| 11:47.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster A1win (a1win@217.112.241.121) |
| 11:47.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 11:48.14 | kingTD | zolden singing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pVjl4Rrtc |
| 11:51.07 | G0A | kingTD its not for publicity:) |
| 11:51.12 | G0A | so bad:D |
| 11:51.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-149-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 11:51.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster ScytheBlade1 (~Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 11:52.03 | kingTD | what a nigga :/ |
| 11:53.45 | Zolden | they are stuck in 80s, i'm not stuck in 80s |
| 11:54.34 | Zolden | 80s almost didn't bring good music |
| 11:54.48 | Zolden | good bands started to play shit in 80s |
| 11:58.36 | kingTD | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awHWColYQ90 |
| 12:17.28 | kingTD | wow 4 marines + 15 slimes => WP |
| 12:21.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-53.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 12:21.20 | kingTD | yay plenty of snow and warm enough temperature for it to melt fast enough |
| 12:24.09 | Zolden | we got some snow too, but it's safe |
| 12:24.20 | Zolden | so now dity surface doesn't look like shit |
| 12:32.36 | G0A | so |
| 12:32.40 | G0A | who wants to play MM? |
| 12:33.21 | kingTD | im able to play one match |
| 12:33.38 | kingTD | EU not NA |
| 12:33.49 | kingTD | as some people are in |
| 12:35.01 | G0A | :D |
| 12:35.24 | Zolden | I won't play in team with you, it's boring |
| 12:35.28 | Zolden | I want a real challenge |
| 12:35.32 | Zolden | surrounded by noobs |
| 12:36.46 | kingTD | we can put in in other team |
| 12:36.57 | G0A | :D |
| 12:36.59 | G0A | yeah |
| 12:37.03 | G0A | play against us |
| 12:37.10 | G0A | it will just make our job easier:D |
| 12:37.23 | Zolden | playing vs you is rather a suicide |
| 12:37.43 | Zolden | but if I get a good dude in my team, it may be fun |
| 12:38.01 | Zolden | we housld try it this evening |
| 13:06.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@HSI-KBW-149-172-117-81.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 13:11.10 | G0A | And my 23 win streak gone:) |
| 13:11.17 | G0A | always nice to play with twodie:D |
| 13:11.32 | kingTD | u did nothing to make this game better |
| 13:11.59 | G0A | true:D |
| 13:12.22 | G0A | I was 2 round far from Anubis |
| 13:18.47 | Zolden | ha! |
| 13:40.39 | Bommes | what mm are you talking about? |
| 13:43.23 | kingTD | mines and magic by zolden |
| 13:46.51 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.103.33.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 13:47.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.103.33.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 13:47.26 | kingTD | Zolden how to make model fade in fade out? |
| 13:48.55 | Zolden | kingTD use alpha layer color, and change smoothly from white to black |
| 13:49.13 | Zolden | maybe it will require having "blend" mode of them material |
| 13:49.19 | kingTD | in animation? |
| 13:49.20 | Zolden | maybe will work with opaque |
| 13:49.26 | Zolden | yes, in animation |
| 13:50.27 | Zolden | another possibility is to make the material be "composite" type, there each material has animatable alpha multiplier |
| 13:50.37 | Zolden | maybe it's easier |
| 13:50.59 | kingTD | ohh |
| 13:51.15 | kingTD | so this way possible to make those flashy animaitons like protoss units have? |
| 13:53.01 | Zolden | example? |
| 13:53.49 | kingTD | those lights, or even in terran buildings that model that u getting to place, flashy green |
| 13:53.50 | Zolden | i remember protoss have sometimes "melting" effect, this can be done by animating alpha threshold parameter with some blurry noise in alpha layer |
| 13:57.52 | kingTD | hmm |
| 13:58.03 | kingTD | dont see the ability to get those transitions |
| 14:04.05 | kingTD | mm |
| 14:04.11 | kingTD | scale colors worked it seems |
| 14:05.45 | kingTD | yeah |
| 14:05.47 | kingTD | gooooooood |
| 14:05.49 | kingTD | GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD |
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| 15:58.09 | rtschutter | Thanks Bommes =) |
| 15:59.17 | Bommes | your blogs are always really fun to read! |
| 15:59.32 | Bommes | I have to thank you ;) |
| 16:01.18 | Bommes | Did SC2 Universe give some updates on where the project is standing right now by the way? |
| 16:01.26 | Bommes | I'm really interested in that too |
| 16:01.40 | rtschutter | I haven't heard anything |
| 16:01.45 | rtschutter | oh shit that reminds me |
| 16:01.53 | rtschutter | I was going to shoutout the notd kickstarter in my blog |
| 16:02.00 | Bommes | good idea! |
| 16:07.19 | rtschutter | I always figure if anyone from sc2mapster community read my blog they would laugh at it because I am not a real programmer |
| 16:09.40 | Bommes | Mmh, there will always be people who make fun of other people because of their own insecurities, sad but true |
| 16:10.23 | Bommes | but in my opinion stuff like being a "real programmer" isn't even a thing, you are putting extremely good work out there, much better than the majority of people |
| 16:12.36 | Bommes | and that's the only thing that counts :) Like I went to the toilet 5 minutes ago and at that moment I thought that I should focus more on the work that I want to get done instead of procrastinating |
| 16:13.08 | Bommes | and that thought was there just because you inspired me with the blog and that whole project |
| 16:13.16 | Zolden | great toilet thought |
| 16:13.34 | Bommes | yeah it's the only place where you can be really free |
| 16:13.38 | Bommes | and think what you want |
| 16:14.00 | Bommes | and also get rid of poo which is equally as good, amiright? |
| 16:14.12 | Zolden | yeah |
| 16:14.33 | Zolden | unless your poo is a monster and you need to fight it |
| 16:14.56 | Bommes | the monster from within, sounds like a splendid movie plot |
| 16:15.09 | rtschutter | well that discussion really went into the crapper |
| 17:07.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli_ (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-201-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:38.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 18:44.03 | Guest47107 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.27 | Ahli_ | I guess not |
| 19:02.42 | Guest47107 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:04.12 | Guest47107 | well guess jade would say smth like "bcs they are 0.1% faster wich is alot better than switches in a static memory based vm like starcraft2" :D |
| 19:27.20 | ArcanePariah | lol, even though hes gone... sets can be randomzied, switches can not |
| 19:31.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-4dbb1908.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:31.48 | ArcanePariah | Well look who dropped in from space |
| 19:31.50 | ArcanePariah | :D |
| 19:31.59 | ArcanePariah | Sup Kueken |
| 19:32.04 | Kueken | hey |
| 19:32.10 | Zolden | omg, Kueken, u alive |
| 19:32.30 | Kueken | yeah, I took some time for myself |
| 19:33.02 | Zolden | yea, in this chat you don't belong to yourself answering infinite questions |
| 19:33.33 | ArcanePariah | Heh |
| 19:33.53 | Kueken | gladly its just approximately infinite |
| 19:34.00 | Zolden | Kueken am I right that you had a trip to china to impregnate Renee, to finaly bring the ultimate mapmaker to this world? |
| 19:34.10 | Kueken | nah |
| 19:34.17 | Zolden | :( |
| 19:34.28 | Kueken | she didn't agree |
| 19:34.38 | Kueken | and her parents kept me from taking her |
| 19:34.45 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 19:34.51 | Zolden | you asked? why, rape would do the thing |
| 19:35.11 | Kueken | I didn't ask, they were prepared :/ |
| 19:35.17 | Kueken | someone must have tipped them off |
| 19:35.29 | ArcanePariah | Anyhow... tutorial on Attach Methods is what I'm doing next, should be interesting |
| 19:35.39 | Zolden | crap, I should have had my mouth closed |
| 19:35.44 | Kueken | attach methods are certainly interesting :D |
| 19:35.46 | ArcanePariah | Then probably Queried Actors |
| 19:35.54 | ArcanePariah | which use Attach methods |
| 19:36.10 | Zolden | yea, it's interesting indeed |
| 19:36.22 | Kueken | do attach methods work properly with site operations yet? |
| 19:36.33 | ArcanePariah | ??? |
| 19:36.49 | ArcanePariah | There is an attachment site op, is that what you are referring to? |
| 19:36.54 | Kueken | as in you can make an attachment method that uses different offset site operations in a specific pattern? |
| 19:37.33 | Kueken | thats something I would like to see at some point |
| 19:37.57 | Kueken | currently it is very easy to make an attachment method that cycles various attachment points |
| 19:38.03 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 19:38.05 | ArcanePariah | Pattern |
| 19:38.09 | Kueken | like marauder's left-right |
| 19:38.21 | Kueken | but that only cycles existing attachment points |
| 19:38.22 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, that's a pattern attach method with a driver effect |
| 19:38.33 | ArcanePariah | Ok |
| 19:38.42 | Kueken | you cannot use it with additional attachments simulated via offsets |
| 19:38.58 | ArcanePariah | Well... yeah? |
| 19:39.02 | Kueken | which I tried to get working for quite a while |
| 19:39.28 | ArcanePariah | Attach methods look at the model data, doesn't care about what you've done to fake stuff (which is just reusing an attach point over and over) |
| 19:39.57 | Kueken | yes, you can use an offset base attachment |
| 19:40.16 | Kueken | but for example, I attach some sort of missile pod with 4 slots to fire missiles |
| 19:40.28 | Kueken | #the pod only has a center attachment point |
| 19:40.34 | ArcanePariah | If you want what you are trying to do, you would need a complicated system of StatusSet/Increment Messages and send messages to the scope of each "attachment", at least that's my intital guess |
| 19:40.51 | ArcanePariah | Possibly a State monitor actor |
| 19:41.18 | Kueken | yeah, so handle all attachments individually basically |
| 19:41.51 | ArcanePariah | Welp, that would involve a state monitor actor, to properly rotate among the actor scopes |
| 19:42.14 | Kueken | I would like an attachment method, where you can just cycle site operations in addition to the attachment points, would make that a lot easier |
| 19:42.32 | Kueken | I assumed something like that would be possible |
| 19:42.46 | Kueken | but didn't discover anything of the sort |
| 19:47.05 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... a possiblity |
| 19:47.13 | ArcanePariah | Node Occupancy Attach Method |
| 19:47.24 | ArcanePariah | Allows you to filter by what model is present |
| 19:47.47 | ArcanePariah | Err... duh, you need to use Queried Actors |
| 19:48.14 | ArcanePariah | Or... hmmm |
| 19:57.28 | ArcanePariah | Yeah I don't see a solution that is obvious, my instinct says to have a status increment, and then depending on the status value, send a signal to the respective added model to do the action actor |
| 19:57.52 | ArcanePariah | Similar to how the marauder uses status increment to determine which firing animiaton to play |
| 19:58.00 | ArcanePariah | And keeps them in sync |
| 20:01.55 | Zolden | since when they have been making diablo 3? |
| 20:02.11 | Zolden | feels like their shader is closer to wow, than to sc2 |
| 20:04.42 | Kueken | probably since D2 launched :D |
| 20:22.47 | Zolden | i'd even say d3 shader is almost exactly same as wow uses, just a bit improved |
| 20:25.02 | ArcanePariah | No, D3 has been redone like 3 times before it launched |
| 20:25.34 | ArcanePariah | D2 team started on it, then resigned, so all that work was scrapped |
| 20:25.50 | ArcanePariah | Then I think new team started on a version in like 07, and scapped all that |
| 20:26.05 | ArcanePariah | So realistically, the current D3 started dev around 2009/10 |
| 20:26.12 | kingTD | heh |
| 20:27.01 | kingTD | removed other 2 stages C D from progress build actor and now it plays from model only A when finished.. while B became last step |
| 20:31.56 | kingTD | wtf? :( |
| 20:47.22 | kingTD | ohh fuck my life :/ |
| 20:55.48 | kingTD | yay unfuck the life point! |
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| 21:00.40 | kingTD | Jade happy new year! |
| 21:00.44 | JademusSreg | So that prototype was a bust, but perhaps some aspect of it is salvagable. |
| 21:00.48 | JademusSreg | Hallo Twod. |
| 21:01.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kanban85 (~Kanban85@251.52.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:01.36 | Kanban85 | Hi! |
| 21:01.41 | Zolden | http://i.snag.gy/KEmpS.jpg |
| 21:01.43 | Kanban85 | Anyone any good with bank files? |
| 21:01.51 | Zolden | best I could do to make d3 model look prettier in sc2 |
| 21:01.56 | Kanban85 | I am trying to make a ranking system simialr to iccup |
| 21:02.02 | Kanban85 | for the Starbow mod |
| 21:02.07 | Zolden | kingTD check it |
| 21:02.44 | Zolden | Kanban85 you need to dl Ahli's bank test map, it was somwhere on forum |
| 21:03.02 | Zolden | also read related threads on forum |
| 21:03.10 | Zolden | and u'll be fine about banks |
| 21:03.30 | kingTD | yeah, well if u will use it in game it will be same like using wow models |
| 21:04.07 | Kanban85 | hmmm I am trying to find an arace map which already have some form of ranking system and take it from there |
| 21:04.13 | JademusSreg | Bank files are trivial. Preload, open, verify signature, read, write, save with signature. |
| 21:04.22 | Kanban85 | but few maps are downloadable form the editor |
| 21:04.53 | Zolden | kingTD yea, because there is no differences between d3 and wow models except d3 uses twice more poligons |
| 21:04.56 | Kanban85 | well, I'm kinda a noob here. Like I know the logic in my head but I am having a hard time finding the right commands on the lists |
| 21:06.49 | kingTD | so... added to AoK generic death of buildings, and finally a proper construction of buildings |
| 21:06.50 | JademusSreg | https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asc2mapster.com%2Fforums%2F+bank+tutorial |
| 21:07.46 | kingTD | what a productive day :S |
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| 21:09.07 | Zolden | kingTD gj |
| 21:09.29 | Zolden | 100-200 more days like this and you have a new cool map |
| 21:09.50 | kingTD | yeah it really is the case :/ |
| 21:17.18 | G0A | did you fixed that miners stop mining trees sometimes |
| 21:17.26 | kingTD | no |
| 21:17.36 | kingTD | that one is just really annoying to solve |
| 21:17.44 | kingTD | really will take whole day to fix |
| 21:19.10 | kingTD | thye go idle cause of collisions, trees mined out and they dont search for more res, dont return cargo even if they are full, dont searching for drop off if too far from it or soemthing (zolden have mentioned the limitations of abilities and stuff) |
| 21:21.54 | Zolden | kingTD each condition should have a periodic search and issue order |
| 21:22.00 | kingTD | guess next thing will be working on AI, workers and the AI controlled opponent as quite a lot of pps playing against them |
| 21:22.11 | Zolden | with is idle validator |
| 21:22.36 | Zolden | ai is interesting |
| 21:22.55 | JademusSreg | I forget, what weird approach to tree harvesting did you take? |
| 21:24.26 | Zolden | i hope it's data and a set of behaviors-states |
| 21:25.10 | JademusSreg | I ask because I forget why it doesn't use the standard resource behavior and gathering ability stuff. |
| 21:26.06 | kingTD | it uses mainly data |
| 21:26.22 | kingTD | but triggers to get a bit help to get less idle |
| 21:26.40 | JademusSreg | <horror/> |
| 21:27.20 | kingTD | i use custom gathering to make them collide so that way they wont stack on one gatherable source |
| 21:27.48 | kingTD | no splash killing and shit |
| 21:28.12 | Kanban85 | Does bank files work when you jsut test a map in the editor or should you upload it forst |
| 21:28.20 | Kanban85 | since it dose a "dummy" test kinda thing |
| 21:28.38 | JademusSreg | Banks work in test maps, yes. |
| 21:28.55 | kingTD | yes |
| 21:29.02 | kingTD | i have track of my 400 tests |
| 21:29.17 | Kanban85 | so the bank should update for every test? |
| 21:29.58 | kingTD | it should work like in regular conditions u would put but - lag |
| 21:32.15 | JademusSreg | Oh yeah... weird pathing thing. |
| 21:38.01 | kingTD | so yeah for one thing had to make bunch of script :/ |
| 21:43.55 | kingTD | 2 players 1 controlker http://www.twitch.tv/speeddemosarchivesda |
| 21:44.26 | JademusSreg | 2x1y, rarely a good formula. |
| 21:47.57 | Zolden | xyu |
| 21:52.41 | kingTD | tibe v jaica! |
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| 22:01.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli_ (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-201-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:18.17 | JademusSreg | wonders if native signatures can be rewritten to permit typedefs. |
| 22:19.12 | G0A | lol |
| 22:19.24 | G0A | won MnM at wave 4:D |
| 22:44.56 | G0A | Zolden, does Robotron need crystal? |
| 22:54.15 | G0A | fuck it does need |
| 22:59.35 | Bommes | Is it possible to convert User Data Instances to Strings/some kind of ID? |
| 22:59.52 | Bommes | and more importantly vice versa |
| 23:00.11 | Zolden | G0A yea |
| 23:00.55 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 23:01.16 | JademusSreg | You can save/load them directly to/from banks. |
| 23:01.23 | Bommes | hm |
| 23:01.34 | Bommes | actually the user type variable type is just a string in script |
| 23:01.36 | Bommes | nevermind |
| 23:01.59 | Bommes | I feel betrayed by the GUI |
| 23:02.23 | JademusSreg | http://hastebin.com/rawediyaru.cs |
| 23:02.27 | JademusSreg | Bam, |
| 23:02.51 | JademusSreg | See lines 69 - 73 |
| 23:04.24 | Bommes | thanks |
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| 23:18.25 | JademusSreg | And for a list of natives, including AI shit, see: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/Native%20Reference.galaxy |
| 23:18.33 | ArcanePariah | Also Bommes, for any data that you are simply evaluating, and do not change much (like check at load stuff), you can use bank conditions instead of loading the values, and placing them in a variable |
| 23:19.26 | ArcanePariah | Bank conditions can check strings, values, and value ranges |
| 23:33.51 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.103.33.pool.invitel.hu) |
