| 00:02.14 | Ahli | I'm trying to find a method to find where bases should be build on melee maps... it's not required for gameheart atm, but maybe it will be one day :D |
| 00:03.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (Zolden@88.135.4.202) |
| 00:10.08 | MoonEater | Ahli try finding the nearest minerals excluding minerals that are with in 10 squares or occupied within 10 squares. |
| 00:10.29 | Ahli | I need the position where it can be placed |
| 00:12.06 | Ahli | there should be an inbuild function for that as the AI properly finds bases |
| 00:12.36 | Ahli | I found: "native point UnitTypePlacementTestsFromPoint (string inType, int inPlayer, point inSource, fixed inRange, int inTests);" and I'm currently trying to make it work |
| 00:13.20 | Ahli | oh yeah, seems to work |
| 00:14.22 | MoonEater | :P |
| 00:17.59 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 00:18.29 | JademusSreg | Ahli, I'll check. Should be in the AITown functions. |
| 00:19.04 | JademusSreg | Each domain has its own separate API. |
| 00:22.20 | JademusSreg | Yeah, pretty sure it uses the AIDeclareTown native. |
| 00:22.48 | JademusSreg | I'll paste the AI in a bit. |
| 00:23.30 | Ahli | well, I don't want to declare a town, I just want all positions for possible bases |
| 00:23.44 | Ahli | which I've just found out |
| 00:24.02 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 00:24.18 | Ahli | "native point UnitTypePlacementTestsFromPoint (string inType, int inPlayer, point inSource, fixed inRange, int inTests);" helped me |
| 00:24.24 | Ahli | I just don't understand the inTests |
| 00:24.47 | Ahli | does that refer to the constants above this function declaration in the natives? |
| 00:25.14 | JademusSreg | Yes, I meant that the AI declares a town, which is added to an array, and the town positions can be checked, so one can get the position once a town is declared, which would precede the actual building. |
| 00:25.51 | JademusSreg | Ahli, yes, that's generally how the natives are laid out; constants they use tendto be declared above them. |
| 00:28.14 | Ahli | http://pastebin.com/2Jj434CC what would I need to use to ignore everything like fog, black mask, creep and doodads blocking the area position? |
| 00:30.18 | Ahli | c_placementTestIgnoreBlockersMask doesn't ignore existing structures... |
| 00:31.00 | JademusSreg | http://hastebin.com/meveqavoba.java |
| 00:31.47 | JademusSreg | AI mostly relies on their own native set. |
| 00:32.42 | JademusSreg | native int AIExpand (int player, point searchStart, string firstBuilding); |
| 00:32.52 | JademusSreg | Calls this when it wants to expand. |
| 00:33.09 | Ahli | "c_placementTestIgnoreInvisibleMask" works |
| 00:34.10 | Ahli | http://i.snag.gy/9bPfW.jpg |
| 00:34.44 | JademusSreg | Query Base? |
| 00:38.45 | Ahli | http://hastebin.com/pemufibiqu.dos |
| 00:38.59 | JademusSreg | Anyway, perhaps I misunderstand; is this unrelated to AI? |
| 00:39.09 | Ahli | this is unrelated to AI |
| 00:39.31 | Ahli | AI was just a way towards the solution as it needs to know where it can place the main building |
| 00:39.49 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 00:40.14 | Ahli | my custom script is: http://hastebin.com/vacesecati.erl |
| 00:41.44 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 00:42.54 | JademusSreg | Well, one would simply add the constants together. |
| 00:44.25 | JademusSreg | Notice how the parameter identifier is plural "Tests", and the value in your paste is labeled "c_placementTestIgnoreInvisibleMask"? |
| 00:45.03 | ArcanePariah | That sugguests, the test is simply a bit masking |
| 00:45.04 | JademusSreg | In the natives, as you perhaps noticed, the mask constants are initialized with bitshifts using the non-mask constants. |
| 00:45.20 | JademusSreg | So you can add together those youi'd like to test. |
| 00:45.21 | ArcanePariah | Heh, ninjaed JademusSreg :D |
| 00:45.28 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 00:45.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 00:45.58 | MoonEater | So |
| 00:45.58 | Ahli | I thought so, but that one just worked already ;D |
| 00:46.02 | MoonEater | i have a questions |
| 00:46.33 | ArcanePariah | I have a answer |
| 00:46.37 | ArcanePariah | an answer* |
| 00:46.42 | JademusSreg | Just wanted to point out you can test for all that shit simultaneously, haha. |
| 00:47.32 | MoonEater | I have a fixed spawn point, and a mobile attack point in a defense game, Mazing increases the pathing obviously for the unit, however pathing max is 65k before the ai gives up. i need to rescript a pathing ai, the question is whats the best and most efficient way to implement what i would belive would be a recursive algorithm |
| 00:48.14 | JademusSreg | The answer is almost never a recursive algorithm. |
| 00:48.47 | MoonEater | i would think recursive algorithm would be the most efficient way to handle it |
| 00:49.09 | MoonEater | go on explain |
| 00:50.38 | MoonEater | jade? |
| 00:50.51 | ArcanePariah | Recursive is never efficient in implementation, only in design |
| 00:51.13 | ArcanePariah | Mathematically, all recursive solutions can be rewritten into linear ones |
| 00:51.18 | MoonEater | yes |
| 00:51.35 | MoonEater | but does the linear ones give that much added speed |
| 00:51.37 | Ahli | in programming class they lied in my face with that :D |
| 00:51.46 | MoonEater | i guess they lied to me also |
| 00:51.48 | ArcanePariah | But that increases the complexity of the implementation, however recursion by definition uses more resources, since you calling the same function multiple times |
| 00:52.00 | MoonEater | they only said... watch out for the overflows "BWHAHHA" |
| 00:52.26 | MoonEater | ok so back to the question |
| 00:52.30 | MoonEater | whats the best way |
| 00:52.32 | ArcanePariah | Well, it is because you have not taken a compiler course or theoroy of programming language course, which explains the idea of a calling stack and why recursion is ugly |
| 00:52.33 | MoonEater | to fix this issue |
| 00:52.38 | Ahli | but they just wanted us to be able to think in both ways, just not always iterative, I believe... they said that it wouldn't make a difference... so the prof always used recursive for everything |
| 00:52.39 | MoonEater | i want want to test every god damn point |
| 00:53.08 | ArcanePariah | Ahli, correct, better to get the design right first, then transform it to the linear solution for implementation |
| 00:53.18 | JademusSreg | The galaxy callstack is especially limited, and people fancying themselves clever will quickly overflow the stack with recursion. Don't employ recursive solutions. |
| 00:53.32 | JademusSreg | Or rather, don't employ recursive function calls. |
| 00:53.45 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I was about to ask that next, whats the limit of the call stack in galaxy? I assume it is realtively puny |
| 00:54.21 | MoonEater | ya ive hit it by accendent |
| 00:54.22 | Ahli | sc2 isn't tail recursive, is it? |
| 00:54.31 | ArcanePariah | God I hated that part of theory of languages class, desigining call stacks, activation records... uggghhhh |
| 00:54.33 | MoonEater | but my recursive loop was only suppose to go like 4 deep |
| 00:54.40 | MoonEater | return was messed up |
| 00:54.44 | MoonEater | its like 10k |
| 00:54.53 | JademusSreg | Hm, should test that. Last time I hit it, I fancied myself clever and recursively grid-searched a region, quickly overflowed the callstack. |
| 00:55.12 | ArcanePariah | Uuggh.... yeah, lets do a n2 algo recursively... |
| 00:55.30 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 00:55.30 | MoonEater | OK! SO im alittle pushed for time, for my needs without testing every damn point on the map |
| 00:55.41 | MoonEater | what would be the best way of apporoching the issue |
| 00:55.43 | JademusSreg | Should be easy to test, though. Simply increment a global var. |
| 00:56.20 | ArcanePariah | MoonEater, what happens when the attack point is too far again? |
| 00:56.28 | ArcanePariah | THe ai simply refuses the order and stops? |
| 00:56.40 | MoonEater | it hits 65k and the pathing breaks down |
| 00:56.51 | ArcanePariah | 65k what? |
| 00:56.56 | MoonEater | i figure establishing intermediary paths work better |
| 00:56.58 | JademusSreg | It's not an AI issue, but how pathing was implemented. |
| 00:57.01 | MoonEater | the distance |
| 00:57.27 | ArcanePariah | Yes, you need to create intermediary points and use the function to check pathing cost |
| 00:57.35 | MoonEater | basicaly -1 means no path and 65k means we gave up |
| 00:57.38 | ArcanePariah | and make sure the pathing cost stays belows a predefinined limit |
| 00:57.56 | MoonEater | i need most effecient pathing |
| 00:57.57 | JademusSreg | AI actually has natives to handle that shit automaticvally, I should point out; using orders is dum. |
| 00:57.58 | MoonEater | to |
| 00:58.09 | MoonEater | nope |
| 00:58.11 | MoonEater | if they could |
| 00:58.12 | ArcanePariah | About to say, use attack waves |
| 00:58.15 | MoonEater | they wouldnt still do it |
| 00:58.33 | ArcanePariah | add to attack wave -> set attack wave target point -> send |
| 00:58.43 | ArcanePariah | Ok, in that case, still use attack waves, and add rally points |
| 00:58.43 | JademusSreg | AttackWave API is a restricted subset of the more felxible, general-purpose Wave API. |
| 00:58.44 | MoonEater | ya |
| 00:58.45 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 00:58.45 | MoonEater | no |
| 00:58.57 | MoonEater | i do attack unit |
| 00:59.07 | MoonEater | i also check pathing for blocking |
| 00:59.16 | ArcanePariah | Then use waves still, set target to a unit |
| 00:59.18 | MoonEater | but it breaks down if the path is more than 65k |
| 00:59.27 | MoonEater | it is |
| 00:59.29 | ArcanePariah | attack waves can target anything really, and yes, just add relay points |
| 00:59.35 | MoonEater | ya |
| 00:59.40 | MoonEater | i know rally points |
| 00:59.49 | MoonEater | to break the pathing up |
| 01:00.06 | MoonEater | i should just post in the forums |
| 01:00.09 | MoonEater | confusing here |
| 01:10.29 | JademusSreg | Confusing? |
| 01:24.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (~AndChat27@72.sub-70-197-7.myvzw.com) |
| 01:25.03 | MoonEater | Is it possible to allow f10 saves? |
| 01:27.01 | MoonEater | Jade? |
| 01:48.54 | JademusSreg | Me? |
| 01:50.50 | MoonEater | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:02.07 | MoonEater | Jadw |
| 02:02.11 | MoonEater | Jade |
| 02:02.17 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 02:04.23 | MoonEater | Is it possible to allow save in multi player, f10 |
| 02:05.33 | JademusSreg | Nope. Just take advantage of the Take Command replay feature, instead. |
| 02:06.52 | MoonEater | that's what I thought :/ |
| 03:02.05 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 03:16.06 | MoonEater | I'm such a terrible tipper |
| 03:16.33 | MoonEater | When I get home I'll tell you guys my terrible elaborate method of tipping |
| 03:18.10 | Ahli | btw, mooneater, my trigger file for diablo has uncompressed 55mb, so 80mb for SCU is realistic. but compressed it's ~90% of that size. So, it's about 5mb in my map file. The mapscript file is the important one (3.28mb). |
| 03:19.06 | JademusSreg | Yup. |
| 03:19.13 | MoonEater | Lol what u guys doing? Digitizing porn? |
| 03:22.42 | Ahli | using the editor, making it create massively overhead as everything is stored in an xml? |
| 03:22.50 | Ahli | *massive |
| 03:23.28 | JademusSreg | Interesting, Halos don't appear if opacity is below 1 |
| 03:23.59 | Ahli | yup. that's why my ghostly enchanted rare monsters don't have that :S |
| 03:24.23 | Ahli | also, animations or model errors can cause the halo to disappear |
| 03:25.27 | Ahli | and the other halo problem/phenomeon I had with my shield attachment |
| 03:25.49 | Ahli | where it disappeared at some viewing angles or something like that |
| 03:26.02 | JademusSreg | Yes, I'd like to know more about that. |
| 03:30.30 | JademusSreg | If the opacity of a occlusion hide model is 1, it blocks halo vision. If less than 1, it doesn't. |
| 03:36.55 | JademusSreg | Testing how much less it will allow. |
| 03:43.00 | JademusSreg | Trying the highest possible value didn't work, apparently if the value it too close to 1, it still counts. |
| 03:54.45 | JademusSreg | Interesting, the model occlusion opacity field and actor visible opacity fields do -not- like one another. visible opacity overrides occlusion opacity, and doesn't allow halo. |
| 03:55.29 | JademusSreg | Or didn't with the value I was testing, at least, hah. |
| 03:56.10 | MoonEater | Is there a way to detect of the current game is a replay |
| 03:57.43 | JademusSreg | Highest opacity which supports halo I tested was 0.984375. |
| 03:57.55 | JademusSreg | Or (4096-64)/4096 |
| 03:59.12 | MoonEater | Bully |
| 04:00.54 | JademusSreg | And yes. |
| 04:01.41 | MoonEater | What is the native |
| 04:01.46 | JademusSreg | Actors can do it. =D |
| 04:01.50 | Repo | New experimental map: Family First Aid - http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/family-first-aid/ |
| 04:01.51 | JademusSreg | Code can't. |
| 04:02.15 | MoonEater | What? |
| 04:04.45 | JademusSreg | Actors can do it. Code can't. |
| 04:07.12 | MoonEater | How could actors identify the replay? |
| 04:12.35 | JademusSreg | ActorTerm IsDuringReplay |
| 04:14.13 | MoonEater | Why would actors have such a thing. Would this work After taking control? |
| 04:15.29 | JademusSreg | Sure, of course that depends on what you mean by "work". |
| 04:15.55 | ArcanePariah | MoonEater, why actors would have such a thing: You could use the term to add stuff to a replay visually that is not present during normal gameplay |
| 04:16.21 | ArcanePariah | Such as sounds indicating certain units have been built |
| 04:16.48 | ArcanePariah | Or add a replay overlay of sound/actors to act as a walkthrough |
| 04:16.59 | JademusSreg | Or prevent distracting shit from appearing in a replay, for that matter. |
| 04:17.04 | ArcanePariah | That as well |
| 04:17.10 | ArcanePariah | Remove extraneous info |
| 04:18.07 | MoonEater | Would the event fire taking control? |
| 04:18.27 | JademusSreg | Not an event. |
| 04:18.31 | JademusSreg | ActorTerm. |
| 04:19.48 | MoonEater | OK, will the the come Bach true on a take comman |
| 04:19.52 | MoonEater | ? |
| 04:20.06 | JademusSreg | What does Bach have to do with this? |
| 04:20.12 | ArcanePariah | That is an excellent question, and I do not know, need to test |
| 04:20.59 | ArcanePariah | However, I recommend Bach Toccata and Fugue in D Minor as the soundtrack for the test |
| 04:21.06 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 04:21.38 | ArcanePariah | IIRC, when I was taking piano lessons when I was younger, I did learn that piece, albeit an abbreviated one I imagine |
| 04:30.14 | MoonEater | Jade would it be possible to male a dummy actor with the term and a trigger watching you could change a replay? |
| 04:30.25 | JademusSreg | Hm, I've not expressed a talent for music. Feel I lack the requisite abstractions. |
| 04:30.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-71-202-39-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:30.59 | MoonEater | Like completely change a replay |
| 04:34.50 | JademusSreg | Moon, haven't you been told about the difference between asynchronous and synchronous shit? |
| 04:45.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin (~Dustin@ip68-102-170-78.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 04:57.17 | MoonEater | Alittle |
| 04:57.28 | MoonEater | Let me switch ovwr |
| 05:01.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater_ (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 05:02.32 | MoonEater_ | Jade |
| 05:32.51 | JademusSreg | Moon, resist the urge to seek attention. |
| 05:32.59 | JademusSreg | Instead, get right to the question. |
| 05:42.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus| (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 05:46.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin|Work (~Dustin@ip68-102-170-78.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 05:54.40 | JademusSreg | Dustin, when shall we discuss possible designs? |
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| 06:44.24 | JademusSreg | Glorzorkle. |
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| 07:01.45 | MoonEater_ | JademusSreg |
| 07:01.52 | MoonEater_ | PAY ATTENTION TO ME |
| 07:01.54 | MoonEater_ | BIG BULLY |
| 07:02.45 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 07:11.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater_ (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 08:08.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
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| 08:56.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (Zolden@88.135.4.202) |
| 09:02.10 | kingTD | Zolden report |
| 09:03.10 | Zolden | had "tied" in mnm yesterday |
| 09:03.31 | Zolden | bitches died trying to do our fortress in the butt |
| 09:03.48 | Zolden | after a sun idol sliding party |
| 09:04.24 | Zolden | they sucked my long hot fat laser |
| 09:05.24 | G0A | haha |
| 09:05.42 | G0A | I am surprised that you reach the end alone Zolden:) |
| 09:05.56 | G0A | You must had a lucky team...:) |
| 09:06.18 | JademusSreg | What is this I don't even. |
| 09:06.19 | Zolden | american dad was much funnier than family guy amonst the yesterday pair |
| 09:06.20 | kingTD | he played with noob nazis so he did alright |
| 09:07.15 | G0A | watched only family guy, it sucked |
| 09:07.27 | Zolden | I said my team, had all kinds aof damage, they said "wow, zolden, you so cool, you hsaved us, you had all kinds of damage! " |
| 09:08.28 | G0A | they should have said: You cant even win in your own game, you noob:D |
| 09:09.17 | JademusSreg | Nearly cracked the Herostorm occlusion halo. |
| 09:09.52 | Zolden | I'd say "I own in my own game, noobs!" |
| 09:10.19 | Zolden | JademusSreg waht do you mean by this> |
| 09:10.33 | JademusSreg | (Also, working out tactical mechanic implementations.) |
| 09:11.05 | JademusSreg | Ah, I've nearly figured that shit out, almost have it working, et cetera. |
| 09:11.42 | Zolden | is "herostorm occlusion" - a visual effect from hotst you trying to implement in sc2? |
| 09:12.01 | JademusSreg | Oh, I mean when the heroes in herostorm are occluded, a teamcolored halo appears around the occluded portion. |
| 09:13.22 | Zolden | is it not a model feature? I saw one of Triceron models had a strange kind of border around the model |
| 09:20.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-42.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 09:24.01 | JademusSreg | My tests indicate it should be doable with what is available, but it's quite hacky. |
| 09:51.07 | Bommes | I always thought halo color applies to the whole scene |
| 09:51.13 | Bommes | you can do varying halo colors for one scene? |
| 09:51.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.96.52) |
| 09:51.49 | Bommes | since that change halo color actor event only works if you use it inside the scene actor iirc |
| 09:54.53 | JademusSreg | There are separate actor messages, ya know. |
| 09:54.57 | Delphinium | http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/46/401/QQ20140107174521.jpg |
| 09:55.05 | Delphinium | 0.0 |
| 09:55.45 | Zolden | kingTD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uP3v97D1TY |
| 09:55.58 | Zolden | Delphinium he seem to face serious problems |
| 09:56.07 | kingTD | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXkWfEIALxM |
| 09:57.57 | Delphinium | After that Brett Wood will be blown into the sea by a bomb from F-18A. |
| 09:59.38 | Delphinium | http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/46/402/QQ20140107174514.jpg |
| 09:59.45 | Delphinium | @_@ |
| 10:02.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (Raziel@78.97.98.119) |
| 10:04.19 | kingTD | how about adding the screenshot from CoD MW2 with these flairs? |
| 10:04.24 | kingTD | flares |
| 10:07.17 | Delphinium | http://pc.duowan.com/uploads/allimg/091118/6_1056021827.jpg |
| 10:07.23 | Delphinium | This one? |
| 10:08.07 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 10:16.14 | kingTD | yeah |
| 10:16.44 | kingTD | there are earlier moment where unit runs with them in his both hands |
| 10:17.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip72-220-22-237.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 10:17.47 | rtschutter | Hello friends |
| 10:18.00 | Zolden | hey |
| 10:18.25 | rtschutter | I have come across one of the most interesting challenges of my project so far and I thought I might come to you guys for input |
| 10:19.37 | rtschutter | I need to clear foliage in specific areas of the map, and while I can do that with a terrain deformer actor, the shape and size of the areas I need to clear varies quite a bit |
| 10:21.00 | JademusSreg | Region actors, queries, precisely the sort of stuff mentioned in ArcanePariah's tutorials. |
| 10:21.36 | Zolden | you can use one small deformer actor, and apply it to an area |
| 10:22.05 | JademusSreg | That's just silly. =\ |
| 10:23.06 | Zolden | if region actors can have a custom shape and clean foliage, it may be better |
| 10:24.42 | JademusSreg | Yes, they can, assuming one simply sends the message to kill em. |
| 10:28.46 | rtschutter | I dont understand |
| 10:29.05 | rtschutter | Here is what I was thinking |
| 10:29.06 | rtschutter | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49867307/SC2Help/FoliageClearingHelp.jpg |
| 10:30.45 | rtschutter | do you have a link to his tutorials? |
| 10:32.19 | rtschutter | the advantage to using the terrain deformer is that I can clear foliage for only the observers |
| 10:33.10 | rtschutter | I was going to take each 'region' (its not a real region) that I want to clear foliage from and somehow calculate a bunch of points within that region and then run smaller foliage clearing operations on those points |
| 10:34.10 | JademusSreg | That's ridiculous. |
| 10:34.45 | JademusSreg | If you're using trigger regions, get actor region from trigger region, send message to foliage actors in region to destroy them. |
| 10:34.58 | JademusSreg | If not, create actor regions and do the same. Easy. |
| 10:35.07 | rtschutter | but I cant destroy them for everyone |
| 10:35.10 | rtschutter | only for observers |
| 10:35.49 | JademusSreg | You know there are types of actors called Regions, right? |
| 10:36.39 | rtschutter | I am looking at arcane's tutorial but I don't really see a way to apply this to what I am doing. |
| 10:37.27 | JademusSreg | Tutorials. I refer to the region and query tutorial. |
| 10:38.11 | rtschutter | that is what I am looking at |
| 10:38.25 | JademusSreg | Just like when Hellions or whatever destroys foliage and burns trees, it's region actors and queries and such. |
| 10:43.45 | rtschutter | Are we talking about the same kind of foliage? |
| 10:44.50 | rtschutter | because hellions do not destroy the foliage I am talking about |
| 10:46.09 | Zolden | is each foliage thing - an actor? |
| 10:46.25 | rtschutter | I have no idea |
| 10:46.48 | rtschutter | I will try a destroy all actors in region thing in a moment to find out |
| 10:46.54 | rtschutter | I dont think they are though |
| 10:47.54 | rtschutter | hmm the nuke does clear foliage not just trees |
| 10:48.01 | rtschutter | so maybe they are the same |
| 10:49.44 | rtschutter | okay |
| 10:49.48 | rtschutter | they are not actors |
| 10:49.54 | rtschutter | or they do not respond to a destroy message at least |
| 10:56.45 | JademusSreg | (See: Doodad Effect Spawner actor type) |
| 10:57.10 | rtschutter | yeah I am trying to manipulate the ghost nuke foliage fx spawner |
| 10:57.18 | rtschutter | but it says it can only be called through effects |
| 11:03.29 | rtschutter | and it doesn't seem like this will work for variable sizes either |
| 11:06.08 | rtschutter | In case it gives anyone any ideas let me clarify what I am working on exactly |
| 11:06.09 | rtschutter | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49867307/GAMEHEART/Blog/Images/sponsorlogos_mockup_sml.gif |
| 11:06.13 | rtschutter | I am creating this |
| 11:06.43 | rtschutter | it is done, except that I need to clear away any foliage that is under or interferes with the decals |
| 11:07.02 | rtschutter | but I can only remove the foliage for observers |
| 11:07.23 | rtschutter | not for the players, or they might be able to use the location of foliage to determine whether an opponent is in a particular starting position |
| 11:09.30 | JademusSreg | =\ |
| 11:09.47 | JademusSreg | It requires an effect because it has an effect event. |
| 11:10.36 | rtschutter | how is it any different than a terrain deformer anyways? |
| 11:10.41 | rtschutter | can I change its shape on the fly? |
| 11:10.52 | JademusSreg | That's what regions are for, haha. |
| 11:11.01 | rtschutter | okay I get it |
| 11:11.04 | rtschutter | there are region actors |
| 11:11.29 | rtschutter | but how do I make this effect occur in the region |
| 11:11.36 | rtschutter | instead of just in a 5.0 radius |
| 11:11.51 | rtschutter | and even if there are region actors |
| 11:11.54 | rtschutter | I am not sure that helps me |
| 11:12.02 | rtschutter | since I don't believe I can create a region shaped the way I need to |
| 11:13.05 | JademusSreg | You certainly can, given there is even a RegionPolygon type. |
| 11:14.09 | rtschutter | lol but the math will probably be as complicated as just doing what I was going to do before |
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| 11:17.28 | JademusSreg | Well, to be fair, I don't see a direct route from region to fxspawner, so I must agree that whether applying fxspawner or deformers, it will involve some work, configuring the radius and creating them at manual offsets. |
| 11:18.26 | rtschutter | okay |
| 11:18.44 | rtschutter | so I may as well move forward with my original plan? As retarded as it seems? |
| 11:19.09 | rtschutter | at least I know what I am doing with triggers even if its complicated as fuck to do |
| 11:19.21 | rtschutter | data its both complicated and I have no idea what I am doing |
| 11:20.06 | JademusSreg | It can be done with data, but the benefits are irrelevant to your application, so by all means. |
| 11:20.40 | rtschutter | I am disturbed by the sheer number of terrain deformer actors I will have to create to do it my way though |
| 11:22.13 | JademusSreg | Create them and make them destroy themselves, or create one and move it to each position and destroy it manually when you're done, either way it's easy. |
| 11:22.24 | rtschutter | oh good idea |
| 11:22.40 | rtschutter | still calculating all of the points will be difficult |
| 11:22.59 | JademusSreg | Simple math. Although there might be another solution. |
| 11:23.10 | JademusSreg | Would need to test, but it would be very simple if it works. |
| 11:23.20 | rtschutter | what are you thinking? |
| 11:24.01 | rtschutter | I was planning to just find the four corners of each 'region' and then do points offset by certain amounts between each corner |
| 11:24.35 | JademusSreg | Terrain Deformers have a Footprint field. If the footprint field applies to foliage destruction, simply make a footprint in the shape of your thing, and a version of it rotated 90deg. |
| 11:24.55 | rtschutter | that will not work |
| 11:25.00 | JademusSreg | Or for however many rotations you'd need to support. |
| 11:25.01 | rtschutter | I cannot modify footprints on the fly |
| 11:25.08 | rtschutter | and the shape/rotation of what I need cleared |
| 11:25.11 | rtschutter | changes from map to map |
| 11:25.42 | rtschutter | the system needs to be able to handle a variety of rectangular shapes rotated in any direction |
| 11:25.55 | JademusSreg | Ah, tragic. |
| 11:26.28 | rtschutter | worse yet |
| 11:26.38 | rtschutter | it needs to be able to handle observers with any id |
| 11:26.50 | rtschutter | so I have to have 16 different versions of each deformer I use |
| 11:27.01 | rtschutter | which makes reducing it to 1 deformer with 1 footprint kind of ideal |
| 11:27.25 | rtschutter | unfortunately adjusting the player filter for actors through catalog field value set does not work |
| 11:27.40 | JademusSreg | No, but actor messages can. |
| 11:28.26 | rtschutter | what do you mean |
| 11:29.34 | JademusSreg | Actor messages Set Filter and Set Filter Players. |
| 11:31.06 | rtschutter | interesting |
| 11:31.37 | rtschutter | I never noticed this before because I usually go to functions instead of values in the gui |
| 11:42.59 | Zolden | JademusSreg what if I use Set Filter Players with set opacity, will it make the actor only transparent for selected players? |
| 11:53.41 | JademusSreg | Well, since it's on a per actor basis, you'd apply it to the source of the opacity message. |
| 11:56.03 | JademusSreg | For example, if you have a Simple actor with a Set Opacity message, you could filter that actor. |
| 11:57.49 | rtschutter | wtf |
| 11:57.57 | rtschutter | whenever I create an actor it doesn't show up suddenly |
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| 12:59.20 | Bommes | http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/intel-edison/ :O |
| 13:03.10 | rtschutter | wooo |
| 13:03.13 | rtschutter | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49867307/GAMEHEART/Blog/Images/CalculatingPoints.jpg |
| 13:03.24 | rtschutter | got the point calculating part done |
| 13:28.56 | rtschutter | and now the foliage clearing complete |
| 13:29.03 | rtschutter | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49867307/GAMEHEART/Blog/Images/FoliageClearance.jpg |
| 13:29.06 | rtschutter | feels good |
| 13:29.40 | JademusSreg | Cute tech. |
| 13:30.37 | rtschutter | the math was a lot easier than I thought it would be |
| 13:42.17 | Zolden | it's what hitler said when he calculated his moustache shape |
| 13:49.14 | Dustin | Morning guys |
| 13:49.14 | Dustin | Ugh I was so sick yesterday |
| 13:49.49 | Zolden | what unsicked you? weed? |
| 13:51.25 | Dustin | Weed and lots of throwing up and stomach calming shit |
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| 14:13.20 | JademusSreg | HHallo Dustin. |
| 14:13.32 | JademusSreg | Been meaning to discuss designs and shit the past two days. |
| 14:13.56 | Dustin | Yeah I've been puking everywhere the past 2 daays :( |
| 14:14.38 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 14:16.49 | kingTD | good times |
| 14:17.29 | JademusSreg | Been working on amusing tactical mechanics, considering other designs. |
| 14:18.02 | A1win | what's being designed? o: |
| 14:18.19 | Dustin | Awesome, I was thinking about an Xcom style (no grid) system |
| 14:19.01 | Dustin | Something like this prototype I made,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlGLH7NYomc |
| 14:19.12 | Zolden | Dustin yea, go xcom |
| 14:30.01 | JademusSreg | Yes, definitely no grid. |
| 14:31.05 | JademusSreg | Of course, first I must get something as simple as a grid with multi-height support working. =D |
| 14:31.31 | JademusSreg | So we're both keen to make tactical combat? How fortuitous. |
| 14:31.51 | JademusSreg | I'll send you a link to a bunch of features I enjoy, discuss shit. |
| 14:32.43 | JademusSreg | The wording is sparse, so I expect I'd need to explain much of it. |
| 14:34.08 | JademusSreg | Yeah, I wanna see the code for that, synthesize our approaches. =D |
| 14:35.27 | Dustin | Yeah, I've been wanting to make a tactical game for awhile since i first made my TBS in WC3 |
| 14:35.57 | Dustin | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/843426/SC2%20Maps/TurnBasedPathingsystem.SC2Map |
| 14:36.15 | Dustin | I think that's the latest version of the prototype |
| 14:41.10 | JademusSreg | Neato. |
| 14:41.46 | JademusSreg | Currently, it seems units are the best way to go for multi-height support. |
| 14:42.42 | JademusSreg | So I'm testing terrain cell units. About to test a simple jumping mechanic. brb |
| 14:43.48 | Zolden | launch unit with ballistic mover is probably simpliest fump mechanics |
| 14:43.55 | Dustin | Hmm, so that is not the latest TBS prototype.where the fuck did it go... |
| 14:44.43 | JademusSreg | (Zol, don't spoil my shit. =D ) |
| 14:44.52 | JademusSreg | (Also, parabola.) |
| 14:47.04 | Dustin | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/843426/SC2%20Maps/TurnBasedPathingPrototype.SC2Map |
| 14:47.05 | Dustin | that's the latest one |
| 14:50.13 | Zolden | ballistic mover is also parabola |
| 14:52.11 | JademusSreg | Adaptable parabola is often preferable to ballistic. |
| 15:00.49 | A1win | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Call_Saul |
| 15:05.01 | JademusSreg | Trying to do much as possible in data for this quick-n-dirty prototyping. |
| 15:06.01 | JademusSreg | What sucks is that cliff pathing by itself can't force cliff jumping, would make shit simpler. |
| 15:28.23 | JademusSreg | I wonder if a separate jump command would make shit any simpler. |
| 15:29.04 | JademusSreg | Seems like that distinction would have tactical value. |
| 15:29.26 | JademusSreg | Also, Climb, perhaps, haha. |
| 15:37.51 | JademusSreg | Much as I enjoy FFT approach to movement, I suppose offering different means of movement as commands could use useful (and possibly simpler). |
| 15:38.14 | Dustin | What if we just do normal terrain mesh height changes, likes hills and shit and get just make jump work for clearing small ground pathing blockers |
| 15:39.01 | Dustin | Did I ever show you the video of my TBS map for WC3 Jade? |
| 15:39.09 | JademusSreg | Easy, but rather boring. I'm interested in supporting multiple heights, as various other tactical games do. |
| 15:39.55 | Dustin | We could support hella heights |
| 15:41.11 | JademusSreg | I mean in the sense of multiple valid positions at different heights in the same space. |
| 15:41.30 | Dustin | They jsut wouldnt be limited to 1,2,3 height stuff |
| 15:41.30 | Dustin | Although itd be tougher to decern you're actually height advantage over another unit |
| 15:41.37 | Dustin | Ahh |
| 15:41.56 | JademusSreg | In FFT, during the execution ground battle, for example, I'd get on top of the gallows and rain hell on the enemies below. |
| 15:41.57 | Dustin | Like a tree, you got the bottom and then another height would be in the tree? |
| 15:42.42 | JademusSreg | Yeah, sure. |
| 15:47.13 | JademusSreg | Anyway, I can think of a few fairly efficient ways of getting the height shit working. But two things seem necessary for them: a separate jump command and units for it target. And this assumes flat "levels" at each height, which is rather boring. Considering how best to support height variation at each level, inclines, and so forth. |
| 15:54.39 | JademusSreg | See, by exploiting the unit Height field, units can be used for the targets of jumps (via launch missile effect with a mover that respects unit height as destination). To get multiple intermediary heights (stairs, inclines and such), it necessitates each a sort of 3d heightmap composed of units. Then it's merely a question of resolution (I'm using 0.5^2 diagonal cells in my current tests). |
| 15:56.15 | Dustin | Might be worth it to make "Terrain cells" based on these units with their own heights and we can then apply RNG to terrain |
| 15:56.35 | Dustin | But I think that's what you're getting at |
| 15:56.40 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 15:56.50 | Dustin | Awesome |
| 16:01.11 | JademusSreg | I'm not pleased about there being cells/units, it's the only one that accomplishes multiple heights and does so without the shitty performance of galaxy and the dreadful math it would require. |
| 16:01.31 | JademusSreg | Can't say we won't be scripting some shit, but so far my all data tactical movement idea is working. =D |
| 16:03.14 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 16:04.05 | Dustin | Yeah that's what Im thinking, :D kk |
| 16:04.41 | Zolden | how do you plan to add penises, through data or triggers? |
| 16:12.46 | G0A | so |
| 16:12.47 | G0A | MM? |
| 16:14.34 | Zolden | just had a game |
| 16:14.37 | Zolden | will now model |
| 16:14.50 | Zolden | making devastator from dune 2 for the new builder |
| 16:14.54 | Zolden | jewastator |
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| 17:02.00 | JademusSreg | "Judastator" has a more aesthetically pleasing quality. |
| 17:05.28 | Zolden | ok, ty |
| 17:19.23 | JademusSreg | I imagine several basic vital resources, but the most fundamental would be the one representing time, often refered to as "Action Points" or "AP". If Turn-Based, figure that each turn represents approximately 3 seconds, and that each action has an associated time cost represented in some way relative to those 3 seconds (or more likely, relative to the vital which represents those 3 seconds, |
| 17:19.24 | JademusSreg | since powers of 10 are preferable). Assuming a CT-like approach (FFT Charge Time), the time vital resource increases at a rate of unit speed per tick (TVR); once a unit's time it reaches 100, it takes it's turn, acting until either TVR is 0, or the unit is commanded to wait (for now, I imagine waiting halves TVR). Round-based is rather more interesting and complex. |
| 17:21.28 | Zolden | kingTD how to make the texture to be visible on model in max viewport instead of light gray nonsense? |
| 17:22.00 | kingTD | click diffuse map |
| 17:22.22 | kingTD | and there tool bar just below the cycrles square with tiles |
| 17:22.31 | kingTD | button to click |
| 17:23.18 | JademusSreg | A round-based approach has both sides issuing commands to all their units simultaneously, the command phase, then all the units act on those orders simultaneously, the resolution phase. Here, speed translates more directly to the amount of actions the unit may take, no gauge on which to wait. |
| 17:25.05 | Zolden | and kingTD which button is it? |
| 17:25.16 | kingTD | square with tiles |
| 17:26.04 | Zolden | "show standard map in viewport"? |
| 17:26.31 | kingTD | yeah |
| 17:26.41 | kingTD | click shit and shit will happen |
| 17:29.42 | Zolden | thanks |
| 17:32.11 | kingTD | tanks to u! |
| 17:34.19 | JademusSreg | Amusingly, this round-based approach works rather well with the SC2-engine, as one may simply pause units during the command phase, issue orders, and allow them to resolve naturally, as it were, haha. |
| 17:34.19 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 17:36.01 | Zolden | will players act simultaneously? |
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| 17:54.30 | Dustin | That sounds pretty complicated jade |
| 17:54.30 | Dustin | I think that it's good for promoting faster gameplay though |
| 17:54.30 | Dustin | As you dont have to wait for your opponents entire turn |
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| 18:31.55 | JademusSreg | Actually, I figure make the round duration scale as n*f (seconds), where n is the number of units of the player with the most units, and f is the seconds per unit factor, perhaps something like 3. Players with fewer units have more time to think, and may possibly award a small bonus for completing the orders quickly, an "initiative bonus" so to speak. =D |
| 18:33.23 | JademusSreg | But since this is mostly theorycrafting design, we won't know anything about its actual playability until prototypes are working. |
| 18:35.43 | JademusSreg | The contention for me is turn-based vs round-based, aka "Final Fantasy Tactics / XCOM" vs "Tabletop Warhammer 40k / other war games". They both have appealing qualities. |
| 18:38.17 | JademusSreg | Personally, I'm leaning more toward the latter, because it presents more strategic and tactical opportunities, and maintains temporal parity. |
| 18:39.38 | Dustin | Yeah I think I'd prefer round based |
| 18:41.30 | Zolden | as Trieva's turn based map showed, if players should wait each other's turn, game's unplayably boring, unless it's 1v1. Then he made allies act simultaneously. So now it's like 1v1 with any amount of players. But still boring from my point. I'd prefer all act simultaneously. But it shouldn't be first one to shoot wins. |
| 18:41.35 | JademusSreg | An good example of a game lacking temporal parity is Dungeons & Dragons. Attacks of Opportunity when moving through a threatened area makes sense; you're in range, makes sense they could hit you. Except, if one thinks about it for even a moment, the enemies threatening the area are already doing other stuff, and if it's attacking someone while you and 7 other pals move through its threat |
| 18:41.36 | JademusSreg | area, it gets at least 9 attacks in the span of 3 seconds. That shit's fucking Zatoichi. |
| 18:43.18 | Dustin | Good point, I think we should add reactionary actions to prevent that kind of thing |
| 18:43.26 | Dustin | Maybe they could be skills |
| 18:43.40 | JademusSreg | Round-based combat makes sense here, maintains temporal parity by permitting attacks of opportunity the same way a unit idle will attack a unit in its acquire range. |
| 18:44.16 | Dustin | Are we talking Fire and Retort, or just Fire? |
| 18:47.31 | JademusSreg | So in round-based combat, imagine you've got a ghost standing by, idling, and a diamondback (using SC2 units for example simplicity). Command phase ends, resolution phase begins, and an enemy unit wanders into range of the idle ghost, bam, attacks of opportunity until the resolution phase ends, meanwhile the diamondback's trajectory intersects with a group of hellions given move orders, |
| 18:47.31 | JademusSreg | bam, moving attacks of opportunity. |
| 18:49.02 | Zolden | dividing command phase and resolution phase is a good idea |
| 18:49.17 | Dustin | Oh so all the orderes are qued up and then executed isntaed of one at a time? |
| 18:49.30 | JademusSreg | Yeah, so good of an idea it was in my initial description of it, haha. |
| 18:49.34 | JademusSreg | Yesss. |
| 18:49.41 | JademusSreg | Thus, a "round". =D |
| 18:50.30 | Dustin | Gotcha, well in my WC3 map I had rounds, but it was all players went through and used up all the actions for their units and ended their turn, and then when everyone had gone it was a new round |
| 18:50.30 | Dustin | So I was confused :D |
| 18:51.02 | JademusSreg | And there's no reason why you couldn't queue up a bunch during the command phase, and change them during a later command phase (but not during the resolution phase). |
| 18:51.10 | JademusSreg | Ah, no worries. Understandable misunderstanding. =D |
| 18:51.14 | Dustin | But it makes sense now |
| 18:51.27 | JademusSreg | This allows for some cool strategic and tactical shit. |
| 18:52.16 | Dustin | Yeah that sounds awesome |
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| 18:53.37 | JademusSreg | For instance, can fire on an area, rather than a unit, "suppressive fire". If you know you're being targeted with something, you could perhaps move out of effective firing range, or quickly move in and strike (because orders can't be given during resolution phase, so micro can't save one's ass). =D |
| 18:54.51 | Dustin | So does every unit move at one, or is it gonnab e like, My unit goes here, he walks past this ghost and gets shot. finishes his move, then my other ghost shoots a guy. |
| 18:55.23 | Dustin | Or all the orders executed at once |
| 18:55.40 | JademusSreg | Er, may wanna use better variable identifiers in that example. =D |
| 18:55.53 | Dustin | and shit just dynamically happens based on whatever interactions happen |
| 18:55.55 | Dustin | Ya that was bad lol |
| 18:56.30 | Dustin | Ok so, is it like this. Player 1, loop through command que, execute each command, Player 2, loop through command que, execute each command. |
| 18:56.47 | Dustin | OR is it like, Loop through all players, execute command |
| 18:57.13 | Dustin | Do we watch individual battles happen, or do they all take place at once |
| 18:57.24 | JademusSreg | Imagine, at least in the most basic implementation, it's a lot like player the game, pausing every few seconds to queue up orders. So shit happens simultaneously, and allows for dynamic interactions of tactics and strategies, successes and failures thereof. So they all take place at once, yes. |
| 18:57.51 | JademusSreg | *a lot like playing the game, |
| 18:58.17 | JademusSreg | (the game as in standard SC2 RTS gameplay, haha) |
| 18:59.00 | duckies | I feel like I've asked this some other person before, but.. are you thinking of making a game like frozen synapse? |
| 18:59.25 | JademusSreg | I've heard of it, but given my ignorance, I couldn't possibly say. |
| 19:00.51 | A1win | woo sylvanas from a booster |
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| 19:01.56 | JademusSreg | Anyway, an interesting thing about all these various tactical gameplay designs is that much of the data structures describing them are easily translateble to one another. If the design should change, much of the same properties are retained, merely recontextualized, used differently. |
| 19:01.56 | duckies | there are 2 phases in 1 phase both you and your enemy issue orders to your units, in phase 2 units execute those orders. when 2 enemies meet, they shoot each other though since shots are insta-kills, the one who had a superrior angle/vision of his enemy wins |
| 19:02.12 | duckies | from what I know of it anyway |
| 19:02.39 | JademusSreg | ducks, that first half sounds approximately correct, so yesish. |
| 19:03.03 | duckies | that is nice |
| 19:04.49 | JademusSreg | Round-based approach has, besides my own desire to explore the design and mechanics, the advantage of simplicity of implementation; works very well with SC2's RTS engine. |
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| 19:08.10 | duckies | there is also something nice about making a plan and the watch it fail/succeed against your foes. No micro/reflex distractions. |
| 19:09.00 | JademusSreg | Yes, also known as "strategy" and "tactics". =D |
| 19:09.29 | duckies | partially what attracted me to mines and magic I think. though by partially I mean a very small part of overall enjoyement, but enjoyement nonetheless |
| 19:09.59 | duckies | aye, tactics are nice |
| 19:11.03 | duckies | and strategy.. I suppose that too, I don't remember last time I used strategy in any custom map, though that just shows what a silly maps I play :D |
| 19:12.53 | MoonEater_ | Zolden |
| 19:12.58 | MoonEater_ | i need some help |
| 19:14.49 | duckies | I'll just stop thinking about it now, makes me a bit excited over the feels that playing a map like that would give. Evil jade stimulating imagination by talking about stuff =/ |
| 19:15.00 | A1win | damn, out of hearthstone gold again, arena went badly ;( |
| 19:15.19 | JademusSreg | Oh, and Dustin, if you have objections, don't allow my charisma and forceful rhetorical flow dissuade you from arguing; deference without dialectical dissections in our discourse to deride dubious data demanding debriding how would we dislodge and derive desirable designs? =D |
| 19:15.19 | Zolden | MoonEater what's your problem dude |
| 19:15.29 | A1win | dominated first 3 games and then lost 3 in a row |
| 19:15.35 | A1win | or maybe it was win-win-lose-win-lose-lose |
| 19:16.02 | A1win | bad mana curve I suppose, had too many cards just hanging around in my hand in some games |
| 19:16.04 | MoonEater_ | Zolden well, doesnt the flat plane you give me already have an existing UV? |
| 19:16.14 | Zolden | it has |
| 19:16.27 | Zolden | if you are in max, i can tell you waht to do to see it |
| 19:16.33 | MoonEater_ | please |
| 19:16.50 | Dustin | Oh don't worry jade, I won't :D |
| 19:16.59 | Zolden | create Unwrap UVW modifier |
| 19:17.02 | Zolden | press edit |
| 19:17.05 | JademusSreg | duck, feel free to join us in our collaboration, unless you're busy/lazy/incapable. |
| 19:17.24 | Dustin | I like what we got so far, I think we need to prototype it out so I can wrap my head around exactly how shits gonna flow |
| 19:17.27 | Zolden | expand the modifier, pick polygon |
| 19:17.43 | Dustin | Or get a flowchart going for the process |
| 19:18.16 | JademusSreg | Should be very easy to prototype. I've got the editor open and, while I do have shit to do, am not too busy on this leisurely day. |
| 19:18.36 | MoonEater_ | expanded |
| 19:18.41 | MoonEater_ | but pick polygon? |
| 19:19.03 | MoonEater_ | vertex edge face ? |
| 19:19.09 | Dustin | Awesome |
| 19:20.32 | Zolden | MoonEater face |
| 19:20.52 | JademusSreg | Oh, and apparently The Thing / Alien In Your Team And/Or Butt quazi-genre is officially becoming a legitimate Thing: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/07/evolve-release-date/ |
| 19:20.55 | Zolden | so in the edit window you see a square which represents your splat's uv map |
| 19:21.06 | MoonEater_ | yes |
| 19:21.11 | MoonEater_ | i see a green thingy |
| 19:21.52 | Zolden | now, jsut to see how it work, select it, press R, and rescale abit, and then preview it |
| 19:22.33 | MoonEater_ | i sould duplicate it and place a second one next to it? |
| 19:22.40 | Zolden | I think the idea was to scale it down, and also scale the texture down, so it has a border |
| 19:22.53 | MoonEater_ | i cant scale the texture down anymore |
| 19:23.30 | Zolden | MoonEater type "unwrap uvw tutorial" in youtube, there will be better explainations than you get from me |
| 19:23.37 | duckies | it's kinda hard for me to discuss things on the go. I'm more of a "put thoughts on paper, then format it to make sense" kind of guy. Maybe if there was a thread I could contribute in a thought-out manner, but whenever someone says maybe it already means that their dedication is pretty non-existent >.>' |
| 19:24.02 | MoonEater_ | uh... |
| 19:24.09 | MoonEater_ | hm.... |
| 19:24.27 | Zolden | MoonEater scaling texture down means that, for example you create 260x260 texture, and copy there your 256x256 texture, so you have 2 pixels border |
| 19:24.32 | Zolden | it's relative |
| 19:25.38 | Zolden | then you scale down uv map to fit the smaller informative part |
| 19:26.01 | MoonEater_ | well its 16x16 |
| 19:26.11 | MoonEater_ | i can shrink it any more |
| 19:26.14 | MoonEater_ | i cant |
| 19:26.18 | MoonEater_ | nothing left to lose |
| 19:26.21 | Zolden | make 20x20 texture |
| 19:26.29 | MoonEater_ | oh.... |
| 19:26.51 | duckies | but thinking about stuff is an enjoyable thing in initself. I'll fantasize about it before going to bed today =D |
| 19:26.54 | Zolden | the idea to have your texture surrounded by a border |
| 19:27.03 | MoonEater_ | ah |
| 19:27.04 | MoonEater_ | also |
| 19:27.08 | MoonEater_ | when i scale the UV |
| 19:27.18 | MoonEater_ | it scales the whole thing |
| 19:27.40 | Zolden | have you pressed Edit button in the modifier? |
| 19:27.45 | Zolden | uv map is a separate window |
| 19:28.12 | MoonEater_ | ahj |
| 19:28.55 | MoonEater_ | so what does this UV map do anyways other than fuck up my textures? |
| 19:29.28 | Zolden | watch tutorials on youtube |
| 19:30.47 | Zolden | when you need to watch a movie, you don't ask a friend to telll you what was in that movie, so do th same now, don't ask me, watch waht I watched to learn |
| 19:38.07 | MoonEater_ | Zolden tell me about the passion of the christ |
| 19:38.13 | kingTD | fuck yeah |
| 19:38.13 | Zolden | kingTD http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQodPrPi3qQf9HdaSkBWY6zmzCQDp_Bue7InCX98OIFzcwD4uGTg |
| 19:38.13 | kingTD | yeah yeah yeah |
| 19:38.14 | Zolden | MoonEater butt sex |
| 19:38.14 | kingTD | okay |
| 19:38.15 | Zolden | kingTD it's jsut a reference |
| 19:38.31 | JademusSreg | ducks, you're silly. =D |
| 19:38.56 | Zolden | kingTD now this, what do you think http://i.snag.gy/QNFKd.jpg |
| 19:38.56 | kingTD | stop with all the silliness! |
| 19:39.20 | kingTD | heh, mediocare edit of siege tank |
| 19:39.37 | kingTD | mostly turrets |
| 19:39.41 | Zolden | it's just a rough mockup |
| 19:40.05 | kingTD | for what it is now its what it is |
| 19:40.15 | kingTD | lol |
| 19:40.19 | kingTD | nicely written |
| 19:41.33 | kingTD | is it possible to research infinitly a research? |
| 19:41.46 | kingTD | times |
| 19:41.51 | kingTD | not duration |
| 19:42.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 19:43.10 | Ahli | make it a unit, detect its completion and change stuff with catalog trigger actions |
| 19:43.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:44.22 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 19:45.55 | ArcanePariah | Anything new or bizarre in here? Has duckies told Zolden to buff something else, maybe a Super Quack ability? |
| 19:47.18 | duckies | zolden is busy making new tanks, so I'm waiting till he finishes them so I can complaing about how they're the newes most OP thing in him map and how he needs to buff their color for it to be fair |
| 19:47.31 | ArcanePariah | Hah |
| 19:47.40 | duckies | also, saw your new tutorial |
| 19:47.51 | duckies | the things in data that exist, I never had a clue |
| 19:48.06 | ArcanePariah | And what color would make them balanced? Hot pink or maybe maroon? |
| 19:48.28 | ArcanePariah | Hehehe, I'll be making more |
| 19:49.11 | duckies | transperant/invisible all the way, makes working on those model details even more so rewarding |
| 19:49.22 | ArcanePariah | XD |
| 19:49.51 | ArcanePariah | Could also go with pure black, really brings out the details |
| 19:49.56 | duckies | ^^ |
| 19:50.13 | kingTD | "Nasty new weapons will be invented. And a giant killer death robot will be created to destroy all life on the planet, but we will be saved by an army of mutant kung fu cyborgs. The future will indeed be interesting! " |
| 19:53.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.231.116.39) |
| 19:54.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836bc076@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.192.118) |
| 19:55.31 | A1win | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacewar! |
| 19:56.04 | ArcanePariah | Since people are around, I throw out the question: What specific data objects would people like tutorials on? |
| 19:56.10 | A1win | didn't know about that one o: |
| 19:56.29 | ArcanePariah | Or editor things in general |
| 19:56.31 | DeadZergling | almost picked a name did we A1win ? |
| 19:56.41 | ArcanePariah | I just reference data because data is where most people seemingly have trouble |
| 19:56.52 | A1win | nah just noticed it linked from some page |
| 19:57.11 | DeadZergling | well, you know the one I wanted ArcanePariah, lol |
| 19:57.16 | DeadZergling | I can't think of anything else atm |
| 19:57.18 | ArcanePariah | Yes, Attach methods |
| 19:57.20 | ArcanePariah | IIRC |
| 19:57.47 | DeadZergling | yep, to add extra attachment points to a unit |
| 19:57.59 | ArcanePariah | Well it doesn't add them |
| 19:58.14 | ArcanePariah | It just is a way to attach to a model without having to know the model attach points in advance |
| 19:58.19 | JademusSreg | Wtf, Zol, can you talk some sense into the russian? http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/data/13598-ui-custom-unit-info-area/ |
| 19:59.03 | JademusSreg | Oh, Arc, allow me to recap Dustin and I's discussion. |
| 19:59.20 | DeadZergling | necroing threads, what a tragedy! |
| 20:00.09 | JademusSreg | Hm, don't recall employing the word "tragedy". |
| 20:00.58 | DeadZergling | just seems to be getting a lot of attention for like no reason |
| 20:01.22 | JademusSreg | How so? |
| 20:01.58 | Ahli | :S I just murdered someone in HS with knife juggler and imp master and redemption (return to life) and noble sacrifice (summon 2 1 that is attacked instead) as paladin... :< |
| 20:02.20 | DeadZergling | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/data/13598-ui-custom-unit-info-area/, last post, closing it and the reason |
| 20:02.25 | DeadZergling | seems like much ado over nothing |
| 20:02.30 | JademusSreg | Ahli, that sounds awesome, and I don't understand any of it. |
| 20:02.32 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:02.36 | G0A | duckies MM? |
| 20:02.55 | JademusSreg | Deadz, much? Two, exactly two ados about nothing. |
| 20:03.29 | Zolden | JademusSreg i don't udnerstand anything there |
| 20:03.36 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:03.52 | Ahli | knife juggler deals 1 damage at a random enemy whenever you summon something... and everything I had was just perfect to keep him alive and summon a ton of sh*t |
| 20:04.31 | ArcanePariah | I now understand.... there is an inverse relationship between JademusSreg smiles and people's comprehension |
| 20:04.35 | ArcanePariah | :D |
| 20:04.43 | duckies | G0A sorry, I'm on a glorious quest to fix my fcuked up sleep schedule, so no MM today =| |
| 20:05.13 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 20:06.07 | JademusSreg | Nearly got it paste-worthy. Just regexing out inane banter. |
| 20:06.08 | DeadZergling | That quest has no reward at the end, unfortunately |
| 20:06.17 | A1win | ugh really need that name for my map, I fear I'm stuck until I have it >_> |
| 20:08.05 | A1win | maybe an explosive name, like... like... |
| 20:08.35 | DeadZergling | Micro Blasters? |
| 20:09.23 | JademusSreg | http://hastebin.com/lixucerute.xml |
| 20:10.43 | JademusSreg | And I didn't name that, but hastebin generates some lovely random names. |
| 20:11.23 | G0A | call it Spaaace Madness |
| 20:11.56 | A1win | mad space |
| 20:12.25 | DeadZergling | Super A1win Test Map |
| 20:12.45 | ArcanePariah | Ok, for jump, the most effective is either launch missle with parabola mover, or an augment ability, that first applies a jump behavior that permits near infinite range to start jump from cliff, and near infinite range after the cliff with an issue order move. Depends on how you want to do it, also set the distnace to jump up/down min ot be 0 |
| 20:13.15 | ArcanePariah | And yes, cliff pathing CAN force jumps, you need jump behaviors |
| 20:13.19 | JademusSreg | Except got no cliffs, yaknow. =D |
| 20:13.30 | ArcanePariah | Yes, hence set the cliff change in distnace to be 0 |
| 20:13.41 | ArcanePariah | so it will jump over any differnece of height, including none |
| 20:13.48 | ArcanePariah | (Need to test, but that's my theory) |
| 20:13.53 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 20:14.00 | JademusSreg | Well, I'll test, certainly. |
| 20:14.27 | JademusSreg | But Since I want to support multiple levels of height, possibly not viable. |
| 20:14.53 | JademusSreg | And launch missile works fine in that regard. |
| 20:15.27 | JademusSreg | Prototyping will help determine if multiple height support is worth the trouble. |
| 20:15.36 | ArcanePariah | Possibly, also, this style of combat would infer all weapons would be projectiles that have arrival test types of 3d forced, and use only ballistic movers, so that you can miss |
| 20:15.47 | ArcanePariah | And have ot aim up or down |
| 20:16.16 | ArcanePariah | Or perhaps induce a mover depending on heigh difference, using same launch missle effect, but with different movers using swtich effect |
| 20:16.33 | ArcanePariah | with validators on height difference of source and target |
| 20:16.55 | ArcanePariah | Also, a jump need not a unit to target, my game features such a jump |
| 20:17.11 | ArcanePariah | In fact that was what I was coding the other day |
| 20:17.19 | ArcanePariah | When I was inquiring about movers |
| 20:19.42 | JademusSreg | But exploiting the destination respect from the mover to set the height to any arbitrary value is how one could support multiple height layers. |
| 20:20.07 | ArcanePariah | Hmm for doing the queing, I would assume we can abuse the fact that pausing a unit does not stop orders from being issued to it, just sets its time value to 0 and pauses it order queue, but still add things to the order queue, so for each round we can simply pause all units, and then to commence resolution, unpause all? |
| 20:20.29 | ArcanePariah | and make all uncommandable |
| 20:21.14 | DeadZergling | Area 52 A1win? lol |
| 20:21.38 | ArcanePariah | Perhaps add a toggable option to view all players actions/plans as they are exectuted, would add some excitement as they player can know their units about to win or be crushed by seeing the actions that will be done by both their units and their enemies |
| 20:21.44 | JademusSreg | Yep, which is precisely the solution I proposed, ye skimmer of wyrds. |
| 20:22.03 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 20:22.22 | ArcanePariah | Yes, I'm parsing, and interpreting, greedy evaluation at its finest |
| 20:24.07 | ArcanePariah | What your describing for gameplay is very very interesting, and has been done before. IN command and conquer 3, you had the option of doing exactly this, you could enter "planning mode" and issue orders, and then when the mode was exited, all orders were executed at once. Really handy for one mission |
| 20:24.29 | ArcanePariah | Odd that they added it to an RTS, but still useful |
| 20:24.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@78.97.98.119) |
| 20:25.25 | ArcanePariah | Despite the imbalanced of the tech tree, CC3 had some interesting tactical elements, armor was directional, and thus they had move commands that force the unit to move in reverse |
| 20:25.48 | ArcanePariah | Which was useful for certain moving ambushes using heavy tanks to retreat while still firing and taking relative little damage while support units did huge damage to advancing armies |
| 20:25.50 | JademusSreg | As for extraneous fluff, like options, worry about that after fundamental prototypes. Though I admit I've considered exactly one option; a toggle for the command phase time limit. So if people wanted to play it like a decades-long chessmatch via Take Command the way folks did with Civ games back in the day, I figure it wouldn't hurt. Sure as hell would be a separate game variant so pubs |
| 20:25.50 | JademusSreg | can't fuck it up. |
| 20:26.18 | JademusSreg | Sounds like C&C4. |
| 20:26.47 | ArcanePariah | Never played it, but I mainge they retained the stuff from C&C 3 |
| 20:27.03 | JademusSreg | C&C3 was high concept, dull gameplay, but I admit the possibility all these features existed completely without my notice. |
| 20:27.14 | JademusSreg | C&C4, well, we'll not talk about that. |
| 20:28.03 | JademusSreg | C&C games are never good; sometimes they have cool shit, but their gameplay has never, never been good. =D |
| 20:28.13 | ArcanePariah | The issue is that the tech tree was so overwhelming that it overshadowed all the tactical elements, namely directional armor, cloaking, veterancy, etc. |
| 20:28.15 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 20:28.41 | ArcanePariah | At their heart, since their is no macro limitations (tib is infinite) macro style wins every time |
| 20:29.30 | ArcanePariah | Also, they fall prey to the simplicity of letting higher tier units easily dominate lower tier. A single mammoth tank and easily take out 2 - 3 times its own resouces in ground troups |
| 20:29.33 | ArcanePariah | can* |
| 20:30.02 | ArcanePariah | They did make some tradeoffs, they made most armor weaposn realtively weak against infantry, and vice versa, and both armor and infantry had units to deal with the other |
| 20:30.34 | ArcanePariah | So one could spam lower tier units |
| 20:30.53 | JademusSreg | I suggest we move to a more persistent communication client for design discussions in the near future, and get the infrastructure in order once the prototyping gets into swing. Would like to have higher signal:noise than is available in an irc channel. |
| 20:30.55 | ArcanePariah | However, 3 failed because Scrin T3 ALWAYS won, the combo of their 2 strongest air units could kill virtually anything |
| 20:32.18 | ArcanePariah | Ok, well, we ahve the usual mediums: Steam Group, Skype Group, Google docs, Shared Dropbox |
| 20:32.18 | ArcanePariah | Private IRC channel |
| 20:32.18 | ArcanePariah | One mandatory requirement is logging |
| 20:32.18 | ArcanePariah | But that is normal to the above options so it should not be an issue |
| 20:33.16 | ArcanePariah | But yes, I see a game like C/C3 with height advantages, and in perpetual planning mode |
| 20:33.17 | JademusSreg | Who doesn't love a self-replicating dynamic proton lattice weilding highly energetic cosmic heavy-electron oscillations to induce fission in neighboring nuclei for a proton pinata? |
| 20:33.30 | JademusSreg | Ah, gotta do some stuff, brb |
| 20:33.34 | ArcanePariah | I love it.... just not uncontrolled |
| 20:33.41 | ArcanePariah | Tends to have nasty side effects |
| 20:35.17 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... depending on the overall complexity, I would like to add AI support |
| 20:35.26 | ArcanePariah | One fasciation I have is with creating an AI in SC2 |
| 20:36.00 | ArcanePariah | NotD intends to utlizile it, and I would l think it would be fasciating to include the possiblity of AI players in this game as well |
| 20:36.58 | ArcanePariah | Given enough time, perhaps explore multiple level AI, I've been wanting to learn how the AI builds work and to create my own |
| 20:38.36 | ArcanePariah | Ok, relatively dumb question, the repeat action, if done for X times, does the action X + 1 times, correct? |
| 20:38.56 | ArcanePariah | So if I put Repeat 0, it will execute it once |
| 20:39.09 | JademusSreg | is paradoxically afk. |
| 20:49.30 | A1win | repeat x is x times |
| 20:55.13 | DeadZergling | so you have a good name now A1win ? |
| 20:55.27 | A1win | I have good food |
| 20:55.32 | A1win | dunno about a name |
| 21:02.15 | JademusSreg | ("Map name here good? No, bad name do.") |
| 21:06.04 | A1win | O.o |
| 21:09.08 | JademusSreg | (Given your grounded disposition and need for accuracy, perhaps this site could provide inspiration: http://www.objectivegamereviews.com/ ) |
| 21:10.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zandose (Zandose@24-246-78-228.cable.teksavvy.com) |
| 21:10.54 | Zandose | hello |
| 21:19.35 | ArcanePariah | Good day |
| 21:25.20 | ArcanePariah | Ok validator question, is there a validator to check if the target and source point are connected by pathing? |
| 21:25.40 | ArcanePariah | Ground pathing* |
| 21:26.02 | ArcanePariah | I want to say the Location range can do this, since unconnected points should give undefinied or infinite range |
| 21:38.43 | JademusSreg | (Like Line of Fire?) |
| 21:39.12 | ArcanePariah | Sort of |
| 21:39.17 | JademusSreg | (Elaborate.) |
| 21:39.21 | ArcanePariah | And it did work for me |
| 21:40.00 | ArcanePariah | I wanted to restrict an ability from going into inaccesible areas of the map based on storyline progression, location range worked for the most part, enough for my purpose |
| 21:55.41 | JademusSreg | Hm, makes sense. I enjoy searching the area for "anchor" units for such restrictions. |
| 22:11.55 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 22:17.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:29.17 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 22:29.39 | ArcanePariah | Hmm, someone must be confused if JademusSreg is smiling |
| 22:30.04 | JademusSreg | From my perspective, everyone seems confused. |
| 22:34.12 | JademusSreg | Anyway, imminently will prototype the basic round-based mechanic, command phase & resolution phase. Then we'll play it, see if the barebones mechanic is playable. |
| 22:45.54 | Zolden | bareboner |
| 22:45.55 | Ahli | location, pathing distance validator? |
| 22:46.25 | ArcanePariah | Yes, that's what I ended up using |
| 22:48.28 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.5.93.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 22:50.53 | JademusSreg | Ah, wish I could have used that for line of fire. |
| 22:58.14 | MoonEater_ | Zolden, i was reading but i really dont get why pixel bleeding is caused by UV |
| 22:58.38 | MoonEater_ | it seems if i shrink the UV the textures should come out edged |
| 23:15.34 | Zolden | just do it |
| 23:20.19 | MoonEater_ | lolz |
| 23:54.37 | MoonEater_ | Zolden |
| 23:54.41 | MoonEater_ | im having issues |
| 23:55.01 | MoonEater_ | so i did the UV wraper which chopped the edges off |
| 23:55.13 | MoonEater_ | but i cant shrink the textures any more |
| 23:57.59 | MoonEater_ | so i tried putting an edge on the texture.... |
| 23:58.02 | MoonEater_ | :/ |
