| 00:00.01 | Bounty | My concepts/ideas for the idea will make it way in more in depth |
| 00:00.02 | Zandose | k. could you do this but for triggers? http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/60079-actors-actor-regions-queries-and-query-response-actors/#p2 |
| 00:00.04 | Bounty | but just as hillarious |
| 00:00.23 | Bounty | The only provision I ask is that we have classes of chickens, and one of them is a Russian |
| 00:00.25 | Bounty | =P |
| 00:00.39 | ArcanePariah | Sure, but what trigger related concept would you like a tutorial on? |
| 00:00.40 | DeadZergling | no classes, different looks is one thing |
| 00:00.47 | DeadZergling | but classes would overcomplicate things |
| 00:00.55 | Zandose | uh. one min |
| 00:01.07 | Bounty | so exact same abilities only diff appearance for the chicken and the abilities |
| 00:01.09 | Bounty | yes? |
| 00:01.24 | DeadZergling | right, some might prefer the yellow chicken look |
| 00:01.32 | Bounty | Like for the Russian Chicken, his knockdown projectile can be a bottle of Vodka |
| 00:01.36 | DeadZergling | to add to the chaos, some item powerups be good |
| 00:01.43 | Zandose | i want either a unit or actors w/ model to be able to detect collisions and do something |
| 00:01.45 | Bounty | Alex Jones powerup |
| 00:01.49 | DeadZergling | no alex jones :P |
| 00:01.52 | Bounty | lol |
| 00:01.55 | DeadZergling | no pokeballs either |
| 00:01.57 | DeadZergling | fuck those things |
| 00:01.57 | Bounty | why, that shit is gold |
| 00:02.07 | Bounty | Bnet needs a game full of memes |
| 00:02.11 | Bounty | but still a fun game at the core |
| 00:02.25 | DeadZergling | the chickens can be hilarious |
| 00:02.32 | DeadZergling | without referencing people |
| 00:02.39 | Bounty | Its the combination |
| 00:02.51 | Bounty | of the two, that takes it to the next level |
| 00:02.59 | Bounty | Fucking christ |
| 00:03.08 | ArcanePariah | Zandose, is the something visual or game altering? If visual, then the guide on Queries will be enough, just change how the query determines the intersection |
| 00:03.09 | Bounty | Chicken Arena with an Alex Jones power up |
| 00:03.09 | DeadZergling | no, that makes people think while they are pecking at other chickens |
| 00:03.12 | DeadZergling | I don't want that :P |
| 00:03.20 | Bounty | oh |
| 00:03.26 | DeadZergling | no thinking should be required |
| 00:03.27 | Bounty | well, then we have different goals for the concept |
| 00:03.32 | Bounty | :( |
| 00:03.41 | DeadZergling | the sounds and horrible chicken deaths |
| 00:03.46 | Zandose | hmm |
| 00:03.46 | DeadZergling | are quite hilarious on their own |
| 00:03.54 | Bounty | Heres the difference |
| 00:04.08 | Bounty | I am trying to take the concept and make it a popular game lol |
| 00:04.16 | Bounty | You're aiming just for a fun game that is silly |
| 00:04.17 | Bounty | >.< |
| 00:04.35 | Zandose | game altering, as in if a unit and a doodad (actor w/ model) hit/collide they move/push each other and damage is done |
| 00:04.43 | ArcanePariah | Collision, in gameplay terms, is decideded by the model game radius, found in the model section of the data editor. That radius is the one used by the pathing engine |
| 00:04.43 | DeadZergling | not having alex jones doesn't destroy its chance to be popular |
| 00:05.08 | Zandose | i dont have pathing |
| 00:05.14 | Bounty | Oh I know |
| 00:05.22 | Bounty | I was willing to give that up,, not a big deal |
| 00:05.28 | Bounty | but you don't want people thinking |
| 00:05.29 | ArcanePariah | In that case, what you want is 2 units, 11 using a doodad model, but having a behavior on it that does a very low range search effect that does damage and runs an apply force effect |
| 00:05.37 | Bounty | you just want a spam click fest |
| 00:05.55 | Bounty | Go for it imo :) |
| 00:05.59 | ArcanePariah | You don't want to be using doodads for that, you need to create new units with behaviors |
| 00:06.01 | DeadZergling | cinematic deaths and well made sounds |
| 00:06.01 | Bounty | I'll come up with something |
| 00:06.05 | DeadZergling | can be plenty hilarious |
| 00:06.28 | ArcanePariah | The beauty and main concept you must graps is that ANYTHING can be used interchangeably |
| 00:06.29 | Bounty | I mean, I think my games have a like 50/50 success rate so I could be wrong lol |
| 00:06.32 | Zandose | the doodads arent real doodads. I used the trigger "create model at point |
| 00:06.35 | Bounty | This could just be another really bad idea of mine |
| 00:06.41 | Zandose | the doodads arent real doodads. I used the trigger "create model at point" which makes a actor with a model |
| 00:06.46 | ArcanePariah | So I can create a unit with the mode of a bridge |
| 00:06.49 | ArcanePariah | model* |
| 00:06.51 | DeadZergling | adding catapults you can knock people into to are hilarious too |
| 00:07.10 | ArcanePariah | (Just will look bizzaree since the model will not have animations to play for walking/attacking/etc.) |
| 00:07.43 | Zandose | its just a static model to replace doodads |
| 00:07.45 | DeadZergling | well, I mentioned it a bit, and you wanted to take over |
| 00:08.01 | Bounty | yeah :( |
| 00:08.03 | DeadZergling | so might be a winner, i just want something fairly dead simple that is easy to learn, hard to master |
| 00:08.10 | Bounty | Not sure why I tend to do that lol |
| 00:08.14 | Bounty | Forget it haha |
| 00:08.16 | ArcanePariah | Well, you need to create a unit with an associated unit actor, make the model for that unit to be whatever you want (doodad or not), then make it invulnerable or hide the status bars, and have a hidden behavior running a small search effect periodically (like every 0.01 seconds) that does damage and knockback |
| 00:08.20 | Zandose | the trouble as i see it is i need to use triggers to allow me to damage my unit |
| 00:08.40 | DeadZergling | and thus why most maps with multiple authors rarely see the light of day |
| 00:08.41 | ArcanePariah | Not at all, just make your model thingy's into a actual units and make a behavior for them |
| 00:08.44 | Bounty | I don't think I could ever work with another actual map maker |
| 00:08.49 | DeadZergling | we just figured it out in 20 minutes instead of months |
| 00:08.56 | Bounty | Yeah, which is fine |
| 00:09.04 | Bounty | I hope your map is awesome honestly lol |
| 00:09.10 | Bounty | I obviously like the premise |
| 00:09.13 | Zandose | make the doodads into units? can't do. too many doodads and too many resources will be used |
| 00:09.18 | DeadZergling | me too, I fear it will beat the map I put 2 years into |
| 00:09.25 | Bounty | It will |
| 00:09.31 | ArcanePariah | Zandose, unlikely |
| 00:09.40 | Bounty | No offense but I learned that quickly |
| 00:09.42 | ArcanePariah | UNless you have 3k+ of them |
| 00:09.51 | Bounty | Anytime I spent more than a few weeks on a map, it failed in popularity |
| 00:09.57 | Bounty | 100% of the time |
| 00:09.58 | DeadZergling | well, at this point that project is more about finishing it |
| 00:10.06 | Zandose | 204800 units... |
| 00:10.07 | DeadZergling | I never cared if that one was popular |
| 00:10.18 | Bounty | You have a better chance than back in my day though DeadZergling |
| 00:10.23 | Bounty | with Blizzard always looking for maps to feature |
| 00:10.57 | DeadZergling | just debating whether this game would be funner as third person or first |
| 00:10.59 | Zandose | units come with too many extras |
| 00:11.14 | DeadZergling | probably first really |
| 00:11.38 | Bounty | Third Person |
| 00:11.42 | ArcanePariah | Zandose, you could always create a far more stripped down Unit actor, you don't have to use the ones blizzard provided with all the extras |
| 00:11.43 | Bounty | I'll tell you that now |
| 00:11.50 | ArcanePariah | same goes for the Unit itself |
| 00:12.16 | Bounty | This is the type of game that seeing yourself is part of the joke |
| 00:12.29 | Bounty | If you make the animations and effects funny enough |
| 00:12.31 | Bounty | >.< |
| 00:12.39 | Zandose | even striped down you still have empty abilities files, at least 1 life |
| 00:13.01 | Zandose | i thought it would be easy to just search for acotrs around unit, save, apply damage |
| 00:13.26 | DeadZergling | I'm pretty good at tweaking that sorta thing |
| 00:13.42 | ArcanePariah | Actually, if you create a parent object and then have all other units inherit from that, it will not be much space consumed |
| 00:13.45 | DeadZergling | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3qG99JqbYao |
| 00:13.51 | Zandose | hmm |
| 00:13.56 | DeadZergling | i was so happy with this one I made a video, lol |
| 00:14.42 | Zandose | ill try |
| 00:15.06 | Bounty | I've seen that |
| 00:15.38 | Bounty | Did the Bomber die? |
| 00:15.41 | DeadZergling | you see the second harry potter bounty? |
| 00:16.08 | Bounty | Chamber of Secrets? Yeah... probably at least 6-8 years ago though. |
| 00:16.10 | DeadZergling | yea, the bomb goes up in flames |
| 00:16.15 | DeadZergling | and burns into nothing in a random location |
| 00:16.28 | DeadZergling | remember how the noble phoenix helps harry potter? |
| 00:16.36 | DeadZergling | fire bird or whatever |
| 00:16.45 | Bounty | Not off the top of my head, no |
| 00:16.51 | DeadZergling | not so in my game, you toss the phoenix into the air and it explodes |
| 00:17.36 | DeadZergling | could probably tweak the bird contortions before it explodes more |
| 00:18.01 | Bounty | Have you ever seen the videos for the game I was working on known as Project Avatars? |
| 00:18.15 | DeadZergling | dunno, possibly |
| 00:18.26 | Bounty | I think I had about 4 or 5 videos with over 30 abilities ready to go lolo |
| 00:18.46 | Bounty | well here you go |
| 00:18.49 | DeadZergling | yea, sorta wish I had calmed down on the abilities a bit for my game |
| 00:18.54 | Bounty | feel free to get inspiration or copy them |
| 00:18.59 | DeadZergling | 19 or more abilities per character was a little overboard |
| 00:19.03 | Bounty | because the project was lost awhile ago |
| 00:19.09 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTReYn31OQw |
| 00:19.27 | DeadZergling | ah this one, yea |
| 00:19.27 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgcgBZJFPWc |
| 00:19.31 | DeadZergling | lost it in a HDD failure yea? |
| 00:19.34 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKXS6UHYvP0 |
| 00:19.36 | Bounty | yeah |
| 00:19.39 | Bounty | there are 4 of them though |
| 00:19.48 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9pzPV4FxOY |
| 00:20.31 | Bounty | Might give some sort of inspiration to someone lol |
| 00:25.50 | Bounty | Fucking Vista killed my HDD... |
| 00:25.58 | Bounty | Unbelievable lol |
| 00:28.58 | DeadZergling | you had no backups anywhere? |
| 00:29.14 | Bounty | nope |
| 00:29.20 | Bounty | I backup all my shit now |
| 00:29.28 | Bounty | but back then I did not backup anything lol |
| 00:29.44 | Bounty | Which is why I have no access to thing like Doodad Hunt, Trifaction etc |
| 00:30.16 | Bounty | I had them uploaded to bnet, but since they're private I could not download them |
| 00:31.16 | A1win | just play them and find them from the cache? |
| 00:31.33 | A1win | unless you already have deleted them |
| 00:33.46 | Bounty | I deleted those projects years ago |
| 00:33.58 | Bounty | they were locked |
| 00:34.04 | Bounty | and I was told they were not recoverable |
| 00:34.06 | A1win | :x |
| 00:34.28 | Bounty | Its fine though |
| 00:34.36 | Bounty | I have learned a lot since those maps lol |
| 00:34.39 | A1win | hehe |
| 00:34.44 | Bounty | I can only imagine how awful the code was |
| 00:34.52 | Bounty | They were all done in triggers remember :) |
| 00:35.06 | A1win | I have some cool projects that I started but would just have to redo all of it because the code is so horrible |
| 00:35.13 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 00:35.20 | Bounty | You got back and you're like... who made this? |
| 00:35.47 | Bounty | Its like reading a foreign language, that you wrote ironically. |
| 00:36.12 | DeadZergling | just think if you looked at the name and decided it needed a new one too |
| 00:36.38 | Bounty | No idea what you're saying |
| 00:36.52 | DeadZergling | a1win does, lol |
| 00:37.03 | Bounty | oh |
| 00:37.04 | A1win | he is referring to my superior naming capabilities |
| 00:37.10 | Bounty | Are we talking Super Planet Blaster 64? |
| 00:37.15 | Bounty | right? |
| 00:37.26 | DeadZergling | no, still a1win test map |
| 00:37.44 | DeadZergling | I need to rename a few areas in my project |
| 00:37.50 | Bounty | I thought it was called 3D Space Match of Death |
| 00:37.50 | Bounty | or something |
| 00:37.59 | DeadZergling | Mines of Rocky Sadness and Ruined Farms of Mediocrity are rather lame, lol |
| 00:38.17 | Bounty | I would like to think I am good at naming |
| 00:38.29 | Bounty | and that I could help out.... but.... not sure |
| 00:38.45 | DeadZergling | Probably just go with The Salt Mines for the mines |
| 00:38.48 | Bounty | I slap a name on a project within at least a week or two |
| 00:38.51 | DeadZergling | goes with the story better anyways |
| 00:39.01 | Bounty | Is it multiplayer? |
| 00:39.03 | A1win | everyone so far has said "just name it something silly" or such, but no one actually has come up with a good name |
| 00:39.06 | DeadZergling | yep |
| 00:39.24 | DeadZergling | I've come up with several, you simply disagree with them being good |
| 00:39.25 | Bounty | don't start it with the word The |
| 00:39.36 | Bounty | Remember your audience lol |
| 00:39.57 | Bounty | I only say that because your game is an RPG yes? |
| 00:40.12 | Bounty | The space game right A1win? |
| 00:40.21 | A1win | yeah |
| 00:40.25 | Bounty | ok |
| 00:40.26 | Bounty | very simple |
| 00:40.33 | Bounty | What genre is it and what is its unique mechanic |
| 00:40.48 | DeadZergling | is nothing wrong with starting some areas with "The" |
| 00:40.59 | Bounty | Not in an RPG |
| 00:41.02 | Bounty | on SC2 atleast |
| 00:41.15 | DeadZergling | they will have to deal with it |
| 00:41.17 | A1win | well not sure what really is unique about it, it's just the whole of it that is unique |
| 00:41.26 | Bounty | You have to imply its an RPG without using the letters RPG, like everyone else does lol |
| 00:41.29 | A1win | the gravity mechanic is a bit unusual but nothing unheard of |
| 00:42.42 | DeadZergling | well actually, using the letters RPG helps others find it when they look |
| 00:43.36 | A1win | dunno what the genre is exactly, "action", "arena", mostly influenced by the "cave flyer" genre from the 90s |
| 00:43.45 | DeadZergling | i somehow got comments about my map and 2 5 star ratings when I hid my map under custom games as 11032012833PMHoroRPG |
| 00:44.01 | Bounty | Interplanetary Arena |
| 00:44.03 | Bounty | lol |
| 00:44.03 | DeadZergling | along with an email or two begging me to continue, lol |
| 00:44.15 | A1win | there's an indie game in development called Interplanetary |
| 00:44.21 | Bounty | so? |
| 00:44.29 | Bounty | You can't trademark the word interplanetary |
| 00:44.37 | Bounty | fuck em |
| 00:44.37 | Bounty | =P |
| 00:44.51 | A1win | it's inconvenient to name it something very similar :P |
| 00:44.58 | Bounty | I think your biggest problem with naming the game is because of your mechanic |
| 00:45.01 | Bounty | Gravity |
| 00:45.10 | Bounty | such a cliche word in terms of naming |
| 00:45.13 | Bounty | GaviWar |
| 00:45.14 | A1win | ;> |
| 00:45.17 | Bounty | GraviWar* |
| 00:45.19 | Bounty | or something |
| 00:45.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater916 (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 00:45.43 | MoonEater916 | YO! |
| 00:45.44 | A1win | it doesn't need to mention the gravity mechanic |
| 00:45.47 | Bounty | What else besides the gravity though? |
| 00:45.53 | A1win | well |
| 00:45.57 | A1win | lasers and explosions |
| 00:45.58 | Bounty | Like, I've seen the videos but I have to be missing something |
| 00:46.18 | A1win | multiple different weapons |
| 00:46.24 | Bounty | Only deathmatch mode right? |
| 00:46.28 | A1win | yeah |
| 00:46.46 | A1win | might add other modes later, like team DM would make sense at least |
| 00:47.46 | Bounty | Farscape Freedom Altercation |
| 00:47.50 | Bounty | aka FFA |
| 00:47.56 | A1win | the problem is that it's actually a very generic game :P |
| 00:48.01 | A1win | no unique theme |
| 00:48.19 | Bounty | You could make it very unique |
| 00:48.28 | Bounty | Just a matter of if you want to lol |
| 00:48.47 | MoonEater916 | holy shit |
| 00:48.55 | MoonEater916 | did stewox just pwn you guys? |
| 00:48.55 | A1win | more like matter of having someone to do some art for me |
| 00:49.13 | Bounty | get JademusSreg to do it |
| 00:49.15 | Bounty | thats what I do :) |
| 00:49.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 00:50.06 | A1win | well I mean 3D art mostly |
| 00:50.15 | MoonEater | lozl |
| 00:50.20 | MoonEater | ~seen Durante |
| 00:50.25 | purl | MoonEater: i haven't seen 'durante' |
| 00:50.25 | A1win | though it's just ship and the planet models I guess |
| 00:50.45 | Bounty | A1win |
| 00:50.52 | Bounty | There are f*cking planet models in the assets |
| 00:50.55 | Bounty | like 32 of them |
| 00:51.18 | A1win | they're not really suitable |
| 00:51.24 | Bounty | how so? |
| 00:51.37 | A1win | they are too realistic |
| 00:52.02 | Bounty | No idea what to say to that |
| 00:52.09 | Bounty | >.< |
| 00:52.10 | A1win | and they are very inconvenient to use because their origin is not centered |
| 00:52.21 | Bounty | Oh I know |
| 00:52.26 | Bounty | I'm using them now |
| 00:52.29 | Bounty | its a pain in the fucking ass |
| 00:52.35 | Bounty | especially when you resize them |
| 00:52.45 | A1win | anyway it's just a sphere, shouldn't be difficult to make one ;p |
| 00:52.55 | Bounty | you have to set their "position" to a variable since its inherently offset |
| 00:53.04 | A1win | but I need the art style of the planets to match the art style of the ships |
| 00:53.13 | DeadZergling | hrrrmm, Durante is very kind |
| 00:53.17 | A1win | and I don't really even know what I want the ships to look like |
| 00:53.27 | Bounty | Have you ever thought of a capture the planet mode? |
| 00:53.30 | Bounty | or anything? |
| 00:53.33 | Zandose | what does with error message mean? 00:00:01.06 USER: [ 18 1] Scope[Default, Unit] Unable to create unit actor. Creating fallback sphere unit. |
| 00:53.36 | A1win | yeah |
| 00:53.39 | Bounty | like instead of control points you capture and hold planets |
| 00:53.44 | A1win | tested a lot of different game modes at first |
| 00:53.47 | DeadZergling | means you fucked the actor up somehow |
| 00:53.48 | A1win | they were pretty boring |
| 00:53.54 | Bounty | easy |
| 00:54.01 | Bounty | make the planets that are captured spawn creep |
| 00:54.10 | MoonEater | meaning your missing assets Zandose |
| 00:54.15 | DeadZergling | did you just copy paste a new unit? |
| 00:54.29 | Zandose | yah |
| 00:54.44 | Zandose | ...i did it wrong didnt i? |
| 00:54.47 | A1win | Bounty, what does creep got to do with anything? |
| 00:55.01 | Bounty | nothing, but it gives more excitement to the game mode |
| 00:55.10 | A1win | O.o |
| 00:55.11 | Bounty | the planet is always defended by tiny ships |
| 00:55.22 | Bounty | and they cover a radius of X |
| 00:55.32 | Bounty | which is the distance between the captured planet and the next closest one |
| 00:55.44 | Bounty | so its always a pew pew fest when flying around |
| 00:55.52 | DeadZergling | naw, but you need an actor for the unit too |
| 00:55.53 | Bounty | even if its just AI controlled mini ships |
| 00:56.04 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 00:56.14 | DeadZergling | have to edit quite a few of the little fields doing it that way |
| 00:56.17 | A1win | dunno ;p |
| 00:56.26 | DeadZergling | the easiest way would be to duplicate the unit, along with its unit actor |
| 00:56.29 | A1win | the environment is too easy to navigate for proper capture game modes |
| 00:56.37 | A1win | you can get everywhere too easily |
| 00:56.54 | Bounty | Well |
| 00:56.58 | Bounty | You can enlrage it |
| 00:57.02 | Bounty | enlarge* |
| 00:57.15 | Bounty | and honestly, it would be pretty easy to randomize your solar system lol |
| 00:57.15 | A1win | that only makes it slower |
| 00:57.17 | Bounty | even for me |
| 00:57.19 | A1win | not harder :P |
| 00:57.23 | Zandose | if your creating 200000 units would that cause the same error? 00:00:01.06 USER: [ 18 1] Scope[Default, Unit] Unable to create unit actor. Creating fallback sphere unit. |
| 00:57.23 | Bounty | for certain game modes |
| 00:57.25 | Bounty | derp |
| 00:57.29 | A1win | it already randomizes it |
| 00:57.30 | DeadZergling | not sure why you think stewox pwned anyone MoonEater :P |
| 00:57.31 | Bounty | FFA, obviously you want it smaller |
| 00:57.39 | DeadZergling | has nothing to do with the unit count |
| 00:57.45 | DeadZergling | 200k is far too many though |
| 00:58.08 | Zandose | so back to actors w/d models only |
| 00:58.18 | DeadZergling | read the bottom paragraph, and realize what you helped perpetuate :P |
| 00:58.22 | Bounty | Just trying to help A1win :) |
| 00:58.23 | DeadZergling | bad MoonEater ! |
| 00:58.34 | Bounty | I can tell you now |
| 00:58.43 | Bounty | Just because a mode you come up with is boring, does not mean you should abandon it |
| 00:58.49 | Bounty | Improve upon it |
| 00:58.58 | A1win | I tried several variations |
| 00:59.09 | Bounty | Yeah but did you throw and curve balls? |
| 00:59.16 | Bounty | Like, something new and exciting? |
| 00:59.22 | Bounty | that nobody had ever seen before |
| 00:59.31 | Bounty | in that specific genre |
| 00:59.57 | A1win | well I did try item collection as an objective, that one was the most boring of them all ;p |
| 01:00.15 | A1win | couldn't really come up with anything more interesting than deathmatch for FFA |
| 01:00.24 | DeadZergling | Bounty will soon suggest snakes in space |
| 01:00.42 | A1win | I also tried disabling death entirely and just make stuff bounce around when shot at |
| 01:00.48 | A1win | but that was also insanely boring |
| 01:01.24 | A1win | you expect space ships to explode when you shoot at them |
| 01:02.14 | A1win | also tried a mode where each player had their own planet that you can periodically shoot to hinder the player's progress |
| 01:02.30 | A1win | turns out, shooting at stationary targets as big as a planet is also insanely boring :P |
| 01:03.02 | DeadZergling | be funner if the planets were destructible |
| 01:03.15 | Bounty | Hey DeadZergling, at least my ideas are unique lol |
| 01:03.18 | A1win | maybe most promising is planet capture where you capture them by flying around them |
| 01:03.32 | A1win | within certain radius |
| 01:03.34 | Bounty | I am surprised most people do not just simply take two genres they like and blend them |
| 01:03.42 | Bounty | Any two genres can be blended in someway |
| 01:03.53 | DeadZergling | sorry, but Alex Jones made you lose 30 uniqueness points |
| 01:03.57 | DeadZergling | your ideas are now average |
| 01:04.37 | Bounty | lol yes, because saying you should make an Alex Jones powerup that would play a sound effect of him yelling and make your chicken go crazy was not unique' |
| 01:04.40 | Bounty | :) |
| 01:04.42 | Bounty | Makes sense brah |
| 01:09.41 | DeadZergling | okay, can type again now, had to spend a lot of time face-palming there |
| 01:09.48 | Bounty | http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/244065.php |
| 01:09.50 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:11.05 | Bounty | What I am curious of is whether or not Alcohol makes no creative people creative or if it increases the creativity of already creative people. |
| 01:11.30 | DeadZergling | dunno, I find alcohol makes me asleep |
| 01:11.36 | Bounty | Agreed |
| 01:12.00 | Bounty | I never was much of a drinker until I discovered caffeine lol |
| 01:12.09 | Bounty | om nom nom? |
| 01:12.28 | A1win | I can't tell, I've never taken any alcohol :P |
| 01:12.49 | Bounty | Ironically, you cannot come up with a name for your own game |
| 01:12.54 | Bounty | Just sayin |
| 01:13.00 | Bounty | =P |
| 01:13.30 | Bounty | I think alcohol is a good tool if you use it properly. |
| 01:13.42 | A1win | I can come up with a lot of names, I'm just very picky about it |
| 01:13.51 | DeadZergling | I've tried A1win's Space Arena, Micro Blasters, Tellurium Blasters |
| 01:14.10 | Bounty | That is the first thing that Alcohol tends to be rid of, is being picky |
| 01:14.18 | Bounty | Just comes naturally |
| 01:14.33 | Bounty | Naturally, if you include alcohol as being natural lol |
| 01:14.38 | DeadZergling | wonder what name he does come up with |
| 01:14.47 | DeadZergling | maybe Super Fuck Brothers |
| 01:14.57 | Bounty | oh cmon |
| 01:15.02 | Bounty | That was just lame |
| 01:15.17 | DeadZergling | he has never had any alcohol |
| 01:15.24 | DeadZergling | what you think he is gonna come up with, lol |
| 01:15.25 | Bounty | You could have at least said "Super Gravity Planetary Bros" |
| 01:15.33 | Bounty | at least make it relative |
| 01:15.36 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:16.00 | DeadZergling | I'm saying he will be so off and not picky |
| 01:16.02 | DeadZergling | it won't even make sense |
| 01:16.17 | A1win | not sure if becoming less picky is desirable :P |
| 01:16.22 | DeadZergling | My Little Planet, Gravity is Magic was pretty good too |
| 01:16.27 | Bounty | No offense to A1win, but its probably why most games on the arcade have shitty names |
| 01:16.36 | Bounty | Nobody has a sip of wine |
| 01:16.43 | Bounty | It helps A LOT |
| 01:17.15 | Bounty | I think people tend to think that you are suggesting they get drunk, which is not true |
| 01:17.27 | A1win | helps in what sense? |
| 01:17.40 | Bounty | It relaxes you and allows your mind to run free |
| 01:17.44 | Bounty | When BUZZED |
| 01:17.47 | Bounty | not drunk |
| 01:17.49 | DeadZergling | that can be true |
| 01:17.56 | Bounty | Being drunk is bad |
| 01:18.03 | Bounty | Buzzed, is totally different |
| 01:18.05 | DeadZergling | I fondly remember having a bit too much sake, and having the BEST game of super mario brothers 3 ever |
| 01:18.29 | Bounty | lol we have different definitions of too much then DeadZergling |
| 01:18.46 | Bounty | Too much to me is when I cannot sleep be cause if I stay motionless for more than second I need to puke |
| 01:18.55 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:19.05 | DeadZergling | so every other night then bounty? |
| 01:19.09 | Bounty | Nope |
| 01:19.25 | Bounty | Ironically I only hit that point about once every few years |
| 01:19.36 | DeadZergling | I've never really been drunk I think |
| 01:19.37 | Bounty | and its usually my own fault, drinking on an empty stomach etc |
| 01:19.47 | Bounty | Then you did not have to much |
| 01:20.11 | DeadZergling | well, maybe once, I was just really tired and could not complete sentences |
| 01:20.15 | Bounty | Have a few sips of wine, champagne or beer gives a nice feeling |
| 01:20.25 | Bounty | and helps the creative process |
| 01:20.30 | Bounty | Look at JademusSreg |
| 01:20.34 | DeadZergling | I have that issue totally sober though... |
| 01:20.38 | Bounty | I am almost positive he is drunk more than me |
| 01:20.54 | DeadZergling | I tend to say some of it, hear the rest in my head |
| 01:20.58 | DeadZergling | and declare my sentence complete |
| 01:21.11 | Bounty | All I'm saying is |
| 01:21.39 | A1win | how do you know he wouldn't be more creative if he wasn't drunk :X |
| 01:21.46 | Bounty | certain substances in moderation are almost necessary for the creative process |
| 01:21.57 | Bounty | Because JademusSreg drinks a lot |
| 01:22.03 | Bounty | more than me I think |
| 01:22.10 | MoonEater | HAIL BOUNTY! |
| 01:22.19 | Bounty | Hail Slave boy |
| 01:22.24 | A1win | that is not proof |
| 01:22.39 | Bounty | http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/244065.php |
| 01:22.46 | DeadZergling | hi MoonEater, I am not sure how you fathom stewox pwning anyone there, lol |
| 01:22.57 | Bounty | There are lots of studies on it A1win |
| 01:23.13 | Bounty | Its no coincidence lots of great writers become heavy drinkers |
| 01:23.21 | Bounty | They lose their sense of moderation |
| 01:23.21 | A1win | ah |
| 01:23.32 | MoonEater | kinda did, i mean atleast he does research, even if its terrible in reality stewox pointed out a good point that none of us really understand what mantel is |
| 01:23.48 | A1win | well I consider myself pretty creative without alcohol |
| 01:23.56 | DeadZergling | the guy he talked to was extremely kind |
| 01:24.01 | Bounty | Same A1win |
| 01:24.10 | Bounty | But Alcohol helps a lot lol |
| 01:24.12 | DeadZergling | then he went straight into conspiracy theories, the last few paragraphs are particularly bad |
| 01:24.50 | Bounty | Like I said, I don't agree with drinking to get drunk, but drinking to get buzzed is very useful |
| 01:25.59 | A1win | I don't really want to risk it, not on the best position to moderate my substsnce usage :P |
| 01:26.09 | Zandose | can a dialog item label's text be aligned to the left? |
| 01:26.14 | A1win | so I don't use anything |
| 01:27.14 | A1win | i's left by defauly |
| 01:27.44 | A1win | you can change it by applying a different style |
| 01:28.01 | Zandose | styles affect alignment too? |
| 01:28.08 | DeadZergling | anyways, just noticed Zolden is gone |
| 01:28.18 | DeadZergling | let the Hitler discussion commence! |
| 01:28.22 | A1win | if you mean justification, yeah |
| 01:28.35 | DeadZergling | All hail Fuhrer Bounty, the great Hitlerzilla! |
| 01:29.20 | A1win | style tags don't affect justification, but changing the label's style does |
| 01:30.10 | Zandose | i dont understand. i only see set dialog item style. which picks font and size |
| 01:30.29 | A1win | look at ModCenterSize16, ModLeftSize16, ModRightSize16 for exaample |
| 01:30.44 | A1win | that's the one |
| 01:30.55 | Bounty | Yano what DeadZergling |
| 01:30.59 | A1win | most styles are left justified |
| 01:31.15 | Bounty | If any of you were elected to be the fuhrer as hitler was, you would accept that shit in a heartbeat |
| 01:31.23 | Bounty | >.< |
| 01:31.26 | Zandose | oh |
| 01:31.30 | MoonEater | LOL |
| 01:31.38 | MoonEater | Bounty, YOU would accept it |
| 01:31.42 | MoonEater | in an heartbeat |
| 01:31.48 | Bounty | Really? You wouldnt? |
| 01:31.56 | Bounty | Its not in the contract that you have to kill jews |
| 01:31.59 | Bounty | but ultimate power? |
| 01:32.02 | Bounty | You would not take it? |
| 01:32.06 | Bounty | Give me a break |
| 01:32.07 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:32.09 | DeadZergling | being the Fuhrer doesn't mean you gotta gold star fat people and sendem to the showers though |
| 01:32.12 | MoonEater | lolz your asking the ownly guy here who sticks up for people like stewox? |
| 01:32.16 | MoonEater | if i would be hitler? |
| 01:32.19 | MoonEater | right... |
| 01:32.19 | Bounty | Yeah thats what I'm saying |
| 01:32.26 | Bounty | You would not have to be fucking hitler himself |
| 01:32.31 | Bounty | but if you were offered that power |
| 01:32.34 | Bounty | you would take it |
| 01:32.36 | Bounty | Don't even lie |
| 01:32.43 | MoonEater | lolz |
| 01:32.45 | MoonEater | depends |
| 01:32.50 | Bounty | on what |
| 01:32.50 | DeadZergling | perhaps, but I'd plan to give it to someone else later |
| 01:32.53 | MoonEater | if i could sit all day and make sc2 maps |
| 01:32.54 | MoonEater | sure |
| 01:32.56 | MoonEater | ill take that |
| 01:32.56 | DeadZergling | sounds like a lot of work |
| 01:33.02 | MoonEater | get fat and ugly |
| 01:33.14 | MoonEater | with shallow bitches that like me only for my power |
| 01:33.20 | Bounty | Well yeah, if you're hitler is alot of work lol |
| 01:33.25 | MoonEater | delegate rulership to other people |
| 01:33.28 | MoonEater | sounds good |
| 01:33.36 | Bounty | But if you're a decent person |
| 01:33.37 | Bounty | that that power |
| 01:33.41 | Bounty | its pretty easy |
| 01:33.47 | MoonEater | too lazy |
| 01:33.54 | A1win | sleep time |
| 01:33.55 | MoonEater | theres a reason why obama is president |
| 01:33.58 | MoonEater | he wanted power |
| 01:34.00 | DeadZergling | yea, cause power never corrupts |
| 01:34.02 | MoonEater | he worked hard for it |
| 01:34.03 | MoonEater | and got it |
| 01:34.08 | MoonEater | me... not so much |
| 01:34.22 | Bounty | Obama has no real power lol |
| 01:34.22 | DeadZergling | he was the liberal's favorite is all, most likely to win |
| 01:34.27 | MoonEater | i get my jolies is other ways |
| 01:34.50 | Bounty | When I think power, I think dictator honestly |
| 01:35.14 | Bounty | Otherwise you're pretty powerless |
| 01:35.14 | DeadZergling | when I think power, I think AC or DC |
| 01:35.17 | MoonEater | i want to be lazy |
| 01:35.20 | MoonEater | and not do shit |
| 01:35.23 | MoonEater | well do shit |
| 01:35.28 | Bounty | Yeah, thats a dictator Moon |
| 01:35.29 | MoonEater | but only the shit i want todo |
| 01:35.37 | Bounty | Look at North Korea |
| 01:35.39 | MoonEater | i dont want to mannage countries and other bs |
| 01:35.47 | Bounty | You think he makes any decisions besides who to kill? |
| 01:35.47 | DeadZergling | it has been a very long time |
| 01:35.54 | MoonEater | yes |
| 01:36.00 | DeadZergling | since a president was elected because he was best for the job |
| 01:36.02 | Bounty | He probably sits there and plays Starcraft Brood War |
| 01:36.06 | MoonEater | i think he finds ways to make nucklear missles |
| 01:36.14 | Bounty | Advisors bro |
| 01:36.14 | MoonEater | i think he keeps tight control |
| 01:36.18 | Bounty | nah |
| 01:36.20 | Bounty | not him perosnally |
| 01:36.33 | MoonEater | i think he kills his advisors reguarly |
| 01:36.35 | Bounty | hes yougner than most of us |
| 01:36.39 | Bounty | exactly |
| 01:36.59 | Bounty | that would give you good reason to give great fucking advise as an adviser |
| 01:37.01 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:39.25 | Zandose | can a units minimap color be changed though triggers? |
| 01:42.39 | proprietarysucks | the short answer is yes |
| 01:45.52 | Zandose | the long answer? ill settle for data if its easier |
| 01:49.44 | proprietarysucks | the actor for the unit controls the minimap settings |
| 01:50.05 | Zandose | ty |
| 01:50.10 | proprietarysucks | you can change that stuff with catalog in trigger, with effects in data, with actor messages in trigger |
| 01:50.32 | DeadZergling | bounty, he left you a special video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O-XCeLjgIYM |
| 01:50.46 | proprietarysucks | like an upgrade that has effect which changes actor properties |
| 01:50.59 | proprietarysucks | I've never done that specifically but in theory all of these should work |
| 01:51.30 | Bounty | Yeah, would be nice if he was not full of shit DeadZergling |
| 01:51.33 | Bounty | scanned the video |
| 01:51.41 | Bounty | nothing to do with the title |
| 01:51.42 | Bounty | lol |
| 01:52.21 | DeadZergling | yea, I really hope they are taking this shit in |
| 01:52.29 | DeadZergling | he starts off talking about mantle |
| 01:52.44 | DeadZergling | but keeps going off on conspiracy escapades |
| 01:52.48 | Bounty | yep |
| 01:52.58 | Bounty | That video had no mention of what I posted at all |
| 01:53.07 | Bounty | outside of the title |
| 01:53.12 | DeadZergling | I'll tell you who is brainwashed |
| 01:53.16 | DeadZergling | Stewox |
| 01:53.22 | Bounty | which is how all bullshit conspiracy videos get you in |
| 01:53.26 | Bounty | The title |
| 01:53.38 | Bounty | I had the conversation with him |
| 01:53.44 | Bounty | I told him straight up |
| 01:53.52 | Bounty | Do your research |
| 01:54.11 | Bounty | Some of what Alex says is true but you seriously need to cut out the stupid shit he says lol |
| 01:55.54 | DeadZergling | I like how quickly it progresses to the trolls are worthless but don't realize it |
| 01:56.06 | DeadZergling | they are always so condescending |
| 01:57.40 | DeadZergling | hate to say it Bounty, but this guy makes you look sane |
| 02:05.59 | Bounty | Good |
| 02:06.09 | Bounty | Because I am sane :) |
| 02:06.25 | Bounty | I have opinions, nothing more |
| 02:07.30 | Zandose | ok, which bloody setting do i change to make a units minimap color different? |
| 02:10.07 | Zandose | in data |
| 02:15.34 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-214-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:05.13 | DeadZergling | bad news MoonEater, Mozared is now laying the smack down on your boy |
| 03:05.26 | MoonEater | im moving to the rescure |
| 03:05.58 | DeadZergling | you can't ignore the fact he is using this thread to try to spread conspiracy theories |
| 03:06.15 | DeadZergling | I wonder if he ever cared about Mantle at all |
| 03:29.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (~Delphiniu@60.166.127.201) |
| 03:30.59 | MoonEater | i think your wrong |
| 03:48.28 | MoonEater | Deadzeglign, Saving is done |
| 03:53.19 | MoonEater | DeadZergling |
| 04:04.10 | Repo | New map: Campaign Stuffs Map - http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/campaign-stuffs-map/ |
| 04:59.28 | JademusSreg | Moon, you're silly. Stew is always wrong, and unfathomably incompetent. Even claimed the learned and beneficent Durante is wrong about shit, despite Stew knowing less than nothing about programming. Stew is the Dunning-Kruger effect made flesh. |
| 05:07.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.127.201) |
| 05:17.11 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 05:21.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 05:21.49 | Bounty | Pew Pew :) |
| 05:22.56 | MoonEater | Jade, i dont care 2 sahits about mantel |
| 05:22.58 | MoonEater | still dont |
| 05:23.16 | MoonEater | i just dont like people beating up on him |
| 05:23.34 | MoonEater | i think its wrong |
| 05:23.56 | Bounty | da fuck did I just walk into |
| 05:24.07 | Bounty | who is Mantel? |
| 05:25.03 | ArcanePariah | He is referring to Mantle, the AMD baremetal API |
| 05:25.58 | Bounty | So, Stewox |
| 05:26.28 | Bounty | I find that ironic that you chose Stewox to be the white knight for MoonEater lol |
| 05:27.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-71-202-39-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:37.23 | MoonEater | DADADADUN!!!! |
| 05:37.30 | MoonEater | does a pose |
| 05:37.51 | JademusSreg | Moon is Silent Bob to Stew's Jay. |
| 05:38.33 | JademusSreg | Henceforth, my mental image of Moon will be Kevin Smith. |
| 05:52.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster FireryRage (~FireryRag@192-0-131-169.cpe.teksavvy.com) |
| 06:07.39 | Bounty | No idea what you meant by that JademusSreg |
| 06:08.02 | Bounty | Shall I award <3 experience for it? |
| 06:08.31 | JademusSreg | Sure, why the hell not. |
| 06:08.42 | Bounty | Hmm |
| 06:08.50 | Bounty | Here comes the difficult part |
| 06:08.59 | Bounty | Awarding the proper amount of experience |
| 06:09.08 | Bounty | I would say 15 |
| 06:09.27 | Bounty | While a boss fight would award 150 |
| 06:09.33 | Bounty | Sound fair? |
| 06:11.01 | JademusSreg | Sure. Though I have plenty of alternate suggestions. |
| 06:12.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-092-073-195-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:13.24 | Bounty | Wompadingdong |
| 06:13.40 | Bounty | You have gained a <3 level Jademussreg |
| 06:13.55 | Bounty | I guess you were close to leveling, how does it feel? |
| 06:15.43 | Bounty | You are the only person to achieve a level higher than zero on the Bounty <3 scale |
| 06:15.48 | Bounty | :) |
| 06:15.54 | Bounty | For some fucked up reason |
| 06:15.56 | Bounty | pew |
| 06:16.03 | JademusSreg | The simplest would be determining a time:experience value, then determining the amount of time it takes to defeat the subject given a set of assumptions (for example, character level), and use that scale the experience gain. |
| 06:16.48 | JademusSreg | Ah, that's probably because we enjoy arguing and don't take shit personally. |
| 06:16.49 | Bounty | Now thats the acceptance speech I think we here are at Academy of Bounty expect and wanted from you |
| 06:17.04 | Bounty | Probably |
| 06:17.46 | Bounty | Not to get to deep, but I think we both are arrogant in a way while simultaneously having no hard feeling when being shit on |
| 06:17.53 | Bounty | >.< |
| 06:18.31 | JademusSreg | Arguments are intellectually stimulating, and our arguments specifically tend to be creative and comedic. We start from different cognitive positions and converge on a creative middle ground. |
| 06:19.00 | Bounty | One of the many creative mysteries in my life that I have yet to solve is your avatar |
| 06:19.03 | ArcanePariah | Oh JademusSreg, how do I fix the stupidity of the GUI placing the definition of a struct below its usage in another struct and thus throwing a compile error? |
| 06:19.09 | Bounty | agreed JademusSreg |
| 06:19.41 | Bounty | Although most of us do not express what we learned during the process |
| 06:20.04 | JademusSreg | Arc, there are several ways. If you're using GUI more or less exclusively, define the struct in a library, ensure its usage is in the main map script or a library immediately below it. |
| 06:20.35 | ArcanePariah | Ok, I was able to rearrange the items in question in the GUI, apparently I had them in the wrong order then I thought it would be |
| 06:20.48 | Bounty | You know, I could probably help you if you're referring to GUI ArcanePariah, if you were speaking english |
| 06:21.35 | ArcanePariah | XD |
| 06:22.03 | Bounty | I knight thee |
| 06:22.08 | Bounty | JademusSreg Lite |
| 06:22.14 | Bounty | :) |
| 06:22.20 | JademusSreg | Arc is very competent. |
| 06:22.34 | Bounty | Yeah, thats the problem |
| 06:22.39 | Bounty | Hence his new title |
| 06:23.40 | JademusSreg | Would make a great title were that pseudonym not almost entirely unknown outside of this IRC channel and the tens of people who play Photon Cycles. |
| 06:24.03 | Bounty | hay |
| 06:24.07 | Bounty | what about mah games |
| 06:24.11 | Bounty | :( |
| 06:25.23 | JademusSreg | I jest; I have no sense of my recognition. |
| 06:26.20 | Bounty | Oh we know |
| 06:26.31 | Bounty | Thats why we always come to you for help |
| 06:26.35 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 06:27.14 | ArcanePariah | In any case, I'm making good progress on my current task, which is creating a UI to allow players to fully customize their team color |
| 06:28.14 | ArcanePariah | Currently going to have a panel with 9 sliders in it, one for each color + alpha in both emissive and diffuse, with a demo unit in the middle, and will use actor messages from triggers when players alter either text values or sliders |
| 06:28.16 | JademusSreg | Sliders or spinners for primary control? Label display or EditBox display? |
| 06:28.23 | ArcanePariah | Editbox |
| 06:28.27 | ArcanePariah | and Sliders |
| 06:28.31 | JademusSreg | Yesss. |
| 06:28.33 | ArcanePariah | Both will be updated to changes in the other |
| 06:28.46 | ArcanePariah | So change a value in edit box, slider will change and vice versa |
| 06:28.54 | ArcanePariah | final slider for HDR |
| 06:28.58 | ArcanePariah | underneath |
| 06:29.03 | ArcanePariah | Sliders will flank the demo unit |
| 06:29.04 | JademusSreg | I did the same with a version of my old pictionary map, Identificationary. |
| 06:29.09 | ArcanePariah | which will be in the middle |
| 06:30.21 | ArcanePariah | Constructed 3 structs, one to hold all the values plus a substruct that holds all the color adjustter structs, which each is composed of the slider and the edit box pair |
| 06:30.33 | ArcanePariah | Hence my earlier question |
| 06:30.59 | ArcanePariah | Now doing the panel design to create for a template, then triggers to construct all the sliders |
| 06:31.02 | ArcanePariah | and edito boxes |
| 06:31.39 | ArcanePariah | Of course, now I must ask, is there a method to acquire the actor of a model in a model frame? |
| 06:32.07 | ArcanePariah | (Since it WILL use an actor) |
| 06:32.38 | JademusSreg | Sadly, don't have a video of that version. Old, old demo, first map. http://youtu.be/A6sNqbjQKvM?t=18s |
| 06:32.40 | ArcanePariah | Ahaha |
| 06:32.49 | ArcanePariah | There is indeed a function to get the actor of a dialog item |
| 06:33.07 | ArcanePariah | Which may not be the model, but it does give me the scope, which the model would be created in |
| 06:34.29 | ArcanePariah | Yes, that is basically what I'm creating |
| 06:36.25 | Bounty | Best video ever? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omm3QPMqyjc I think so |
| 06:36.38 | Bounty | WTB Charisma |
| 06:37.44 | ArcanePariah | I'm thinking... what is the difference between a spinner and slider? |
| 06:39.41 | ArcanePariah | Are spinners just number sliders, textual instead of visual:? |
| 06:40.18 | ArcanePariah | I wonder.... use spinner to control view by sending rotation message to dialog item actor based on spinner value? |
| 06:40.32 | ArcanePariah | So free rotation |
| 06:42.32 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, I'm mentally designing my procedural village generation. Haven't yet decided if I'll use Voroni diagrams. |
| 06:43.17 | JademusSreg | And spinner standard usage is in the resource trade menu, if you want a feel for it. |
| 06:43.39 | ArcanePariah | I'm assuming you are referring to a method or algorithim for controlled but randomized placement in a defined area? |
| 06:45.06 | ArcanePariah | Voronoi Diagrams look interesting |
| 06:45.17 | JademusSreg | Pretty much. Figured I'd use a combination of cells and depth-first mazing to make the village paths. |
| 06:45.52 | Bounty | No idea what you guys are talking about but I think your greatest flaws are you guys are so into programming that you yourself have become programmed lol |
| 06:46.04 | Bounty | >.< |
| 06:46.27 | Bounty | Anyone for some Mario Kart 7? |
| 06:46.57 | ArcanePariah | The diagrams method you referred seems like an effective way to generate regions, but entirely dependent on a good seed of points, which I assume will also will be created via a RNG. I can only assume that one can construct boundaries on the seed points to guarantee a good distribution |
| 06:47.07 | JademusSreg | Depth-first maze generation by itself would be hilariously inadequate, but by defining the space in which it operates divided into cells, the depth-first would work quite well. |
| 06:47.21 | JademusSreg | I've already got an algorithmic RNG. |
| 06:48.06 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so you will have some constraints on the generated sequence to assure a semblance of gameplay balance/stablity? |
| 06:48.13 | ArcanePariah | stability* |
| 06:49.36 | ArcanePariah | In a way, a Voronoi Diagram is a mathmatical extension/repetition of a simple geometric construction |
| 06:49.46 | Bounty | I swear, you two should haven been writers for the script of The Matrix |
| 06:49.48 | JademusSreg | Adapted it to galaxy from Marsaglia's welll-known PRNG. |
| 06:50.17 | ArcanePariah | Since one can easily construct the line segments, and simply use the first intersection for determining vertexes |
| 06:50.21 | JademusSreg | But since one can set the seed as one wishes, it's not entirely necessary unless I want to use two seeds. |
| 06:50.47 | JademusSreg | Pardon, since the game's RNG's seed can be set as one wishes. |
| 06:52.56 | JademusSreg | I've got a demomap with it, actually. |
| 06:53.17 | JademusSreg | Hopefully it's not in the 7GB archive. |
| 06:57.25 | JademusSreg | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/SuperMapPOC.SC2Map |
| 07:00.25 | JademusSreg | Super old map, made it back in 2010. Even throws some errors for invalid unit positions. =D |
| 07:00.36 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 07:00.46 | ArcanePariah | I'lll take a look when I have some time |
| 07:00.50 | JademusSreg | When Karass reaches the edge of the map, it generates the next map in the "super map". |
| 07:01.18 | JademusSreg | The x and y values within the super map are the seeds given to the PRNG, sans 0. |
| 07:01.45 | ArcanePariah | But I do agree that Voronoi diagrams would be a simple and effective way to create regions as the basis for village creation |
| 07:02.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 07:03.59 | JademusSreg | Yes, and the depth-first path generation would wind through, create some nice cul de sacs, haha. |
| 07:05.29 | ArcanePariah | I wonder, perhaps a recursive diagram? An initial one for village locations, and within each region created, do another for building placement? |
| 07:05.45 | ArcanePariah | And remove a random subset to give final map setup? |
| 07:07.28 | ArcanePariah | Along with an assoicated depth first for roads between villages and another for each region for building pathing from the original region point? |
| 07:08.30 | ArcanePariah | Also, what we are discussing, does this fall under the term of procedural generation? |
| 07:10.16 | ArcanePariah | Interesting, apparently Voronoi Diagrams are used to create organic or lava looking textures |
| 07:11.41 | JademusSreg | I've got some simple, efficient ideas for entity placement (depth-first path gen marks the divisions, determine a curve from the path-marked edges pulled toward the cell center, attempt to place entities distance from the path center, apply facing). |
| 07:13.47 | JademusSreg | And human colonizations that grow in an adhoc or improvised fashion (as opposed to urban planning or designed environments) tend to display organic organizational patterns. |
| 07:15.04 | JademusSreg | Growing towns bear some similarity to growing bacterial colonies. =D |
| 07:19.51 | JademusSreg | Since the gameplay design is goal oriented, rather than sandbox, the start-to-finish route is fundamental. However easy it would be to just do shit "randomly", providing a consistently engaging while variable experience requires parameterizing engaging qualities and designing the generator to produce terrain conducive to that end. |
| 07:20.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.7.59.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:22.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-4dbbbbc7.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 07:22.49 | Kueken | shark |
| 07:22.58 | JademusSreg | brbi5 |
| 07:28.18 | ArcanePariah | Nado |
| 07:28.22 | ArcanePariah | Sup Kueken |
| 07:30.45 | JademusSreg | With the advent of quantum computing, I hope to see the terms for PRNG and RNG replace with "simulated random", "practically random", and (actually) "random". |
| 07:31.02 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, indeed towns do tend to be organic if left alone, where I live is a rather good example of this :D |
| 07:31.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (322e8dd1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.46.141.209) |
| 07:31.23 | ArcanePariah | Orange County california is quite a suburban sprawl |
| 07:31.53 | ArcanePariah | Also, that reminds me of an interesting approach a university had when building its sideways/paths |
| 07:32.04 | JademusSreg | More curly cul de sacs than velcro fibre? |
| 07:32.18 | ArcanePariah | Somewhat |
| 07:32.31 | ArcanePariah | The university initially constructed NO footpaths |
| 07:32.36 | ArcanePariah | and simply waited |
| 07:32.37 | G0A | JademusSreg http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/60147-gearing-up-interest-for-blizz-to-support-mantle-api/?page=3#p46 :) |
| 07:33.02 | ArcanePariah | At which point, the university noted where the students had created their own and simply laid the concrete in those routes |
| 07:33.16 | G0A | I like how people take seriously stewox |
| 07:33.47 | ArcanePariah | Wait... your telling me all that stuff isn't real??? O gawd!!!! |
| 07:33.52 | ArcanePariah | XD |
| 07:34.04 | DeadZergling | I like how despite not even being in the channel,he has monopolized half the chat in IRC today |
| 07:34.41 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 07:34.42 | G0A | :) |
| 07:34.45 | ArcanePariah | Well... I dunno, good way to pass the time, in between me and Jade discussing abstract math and theory, along with dialog constructions |
| 07:35.47 | ArcanePariah | In any case, Jade, how are you going to approach construction the regions of a Voronoi Diagram? |
| 07:35.51 | ArcanePariah | of the* |
| 07:36.35 | ArcanePariah | I assume some method must ultimately arrive at determine the various vertex points to create a region variable (if that is even needed), or at least the vertex points to give bounds |
| 07:36.55 | ArcanePariah | Ok... that came out totally screwed up :P |
| 07:37.13 | JademusSreg | Arc, yep. Reminds me of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Critical-Mass-Thing-Leads-Another/dp/0374281254 |
| 07:38.00 | ArcanePariah | Interesring |
| 07:38.25 | JademusSreg | Also, region type is useless for anything beyond rudimentary shapes. Can't even rotate them, for fucksake. |
| 07:39.06 | ArcanePariah | Arguably the greatest success of the internet is the massive collaboration, that although has reduced quality by a certain amount, has led to far greater creation/analysis of content then ever in human history |
| 07:39.20 | ArcanePariah | That organic growth of knowledge is simply mind boggling |
| 07:39.45 | ArcanePariah | Hell, the very concept of a wiki is still pretty revolutionary |
| 07:39.55 | JademusSreg | Yeah, was lent that book from an acquaintence at Perkins dinner. Stimulating, if you don't mind the long, dry portions early in the book. |
| 07:40.10 | JademusSreg | *diner |
| 07:41.35 | ArcanePariah | Sadly I will not be able to visit said establishment, but such is life, I get In and Out :D |
| 07:41.46 | MoonEater | LOLZ |
| 07:41.55 | MoonEater | oh hooka how i love you |
| 07:41.59 | JademusSreg | Oh, and if that topic derails into conspiracy shit, it too will disappear, so if you enjoy arguing with Stew, do not derail the thread. |
| 07:42.26 | JademusSreg | Amusing, though. |
| 07:42.26 | MoonEater | i dont participate in that thread |
| 07:42.30 | MoonEater | i just watch people |
| 07:42.31 | ArcanePariah | G0A, I can only say one thing: WINNING!!!! |
| 07:42.34 | MoonEater | like a stalker |
| 07:47.23 | ArcanePariah | I think our thread should be donated to the American Psychology Assoication as a classroom example :D |
| 07:47.33 | ArcanePariah | maybe as a test question? |
| 07:50.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 07:50.40 | Bounty | Pew |
| 07:50.42 | JademusSreg | Imagine it would work for several disorders. |
| 07:51.07 | DeadZergling | you sure awake a lot today bounty |
| 07:51.18 | motive|| | Conspiracy shit? I love debunking me some conspiracie. |
| 07:51.22 | Bounty | Not much longer honestly |
| 07:51.39 | DeadZergling | I'm just enjoying a fever that causes chills and horrible pain everywhere |
| 07:51.44 | DeadZergling | it is great |
| 07:51.59 | Bounty | I predict atleast 10 minutes, at most 2 hours |
| 07:52.01 | motive | DeadZergling: I'm sick, too! Woo! |
| 07:52.10 | DeadZergling | is the damn aliens |
| 07:52.17 | DeadZergling | they did this to me |
| 07:52.19 | ArcanePariah | :( |
| 07:52.25 | ArcanePariah | Maybe you can borrow some of my weather? |
| 07:52.28 | Bounty | Its true Deadzergling |
| 07:52.35 | DeadZergling | I told them to sterilize the probe |
| 07:52.39 | DeadZergling | but nooooo |
| 07:53.10 | DeadZergling | be nice arcane, but I can literally hold them right in front of the heater |
| 07:53.11 | Bounty | The aliens infiltrated the FDA and put the remnants of chem trails into bottled water |
| 07:53.19 | DeadZergling | and still chills |
| 07:53.26 | Bounty | You have about 13 hours to live |
| 07:53.40 | DeadZergling | Thank God, was getting tired of existing |
| 07:54.01 | ArcanePariah | 0.o. thanking the being you get to see soon? |
| 07:54.06 | ArcanePariah | :P |
| 07:54.22 | Bounty | Better hurry up and finish that map brah |
| 07:54.28 | DeadZergling | not really, I've cursed the crap out of him before |
| 07:54.31 | DeadZergling | nothing |
| 07:54.37 | Bounty | No greater motivation than impending death |
| 07:55.12 | JademusSreg | Motive, did you adapt cortex engine to an extension mod? |
| 07:55.49 | motive | Nope, someone else extended the Cortex Engine with a mod |
| 07:55.59 | motive | It's a little silly because it could've been a patch on the engine :| |
| 07:56.03 | Bounty | I have that video I linked in the thread bookmartked |
| 07:56.04 | motive | I should integrate it one day |
| 07:56.20 | Bounty | I am trying to replace my morning wake up caffeine with that video |
| 07:56.29 | DeadZergling | sigh, him again? |
| 07:56.53 | Bounty | I guess its just me? I think that is the most hilarious video of all time lol |
| 07:57.00 | Bounty | HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
| 07:57.10 | JademusSreg | Motive, er, clarify? Are you refering to the new extension mod feature in PTR 2.1 as well? |
| 07:57.28 | motive | Oh, no, nevermind. I'm way off base. |
| 07:57.30 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, what (if any) purpose is there to returning in an action? |
| 07:57.39 | motive | I haven't looked at 2.1 too thoroughly. I got really distracted with two projects I'm working on. |
| 07:57.40 | G0A | wow, I dont remember making this review, but still wow: http://pastebin.com/crGbryca |
| 07:57.52 | JademusSreg | Arc, none. |
| 07:57.58 | motive | I've been programming something in Java and it makes me happy to not be in Galaxy. |
| 07:57.59 | motive | Haha |
| 07:58.34 | ArcanePariah | Odd, Blizzard did some returns for the various create dialog item actions (Create Button, Achievement, etc.) |
| 07:58.43 | JademusSreg | Yes, any (non-esoteric) language is preferable to galaxy. |
| 07:59.00 | motive | JademusSreg: I dunno, sieve is pretty bad. |
| 07:59.08 | motive | I'd take Galaxy over sieve. |
| 07:59.15 | ArcanePariah | Well duh, because Galaxy (rightfully most of the time) assumes you are an idoit |
| 07:59.18 | DeadZergling | is there a way to make it so units do not auto attack a monster, but are still able to attack them? |
| 07:59.41 | ArcanePariah | DeadZergling: Set weapon scan filters to off (filter everything) |
| 07:59.42 | Bounty | I don't even see how that is a racial or ethnic slur G0A |
| 07:59.43 | JademusSreg | Arc, they do return a value, but since GUI actions cannot be used in variable assignment actions, it's useless. |
| 07:59.56 | DeadZergling | on the monster? |
| 07:59.59 | JademusSreg | Deadz, see Hold Fire. |
| 08:00.14 | DeadZergling | right, but I only want it to occur for 3-4 monsters |
| 08:00.23 | Bounty | I mean, if you get down to the technically level anything could be an ethnic slur |
| 08:00.31 | ArcanePariah | Ok backup, you want certain monsters to not be auto attacked by units? |
| 08:00.40 | DeadZergling | calling black people african american is racist |
| 08:00.43 | DeadZergling | not all africans are black |
| 08:00.45 | Bounty | This map is totally JademusSreg, I mean this in a bad way |
| 08:00.50 | Bounty | Thats an ethnic slur |
| 08:00.50 | DeadZergling | right arc |
| 08:00.52 | Bounty | by definition |
| 08:00.56 | G0A | Bounty yeah I didnt know that gays or maps are ethnic or racial. |
| 08:01.04 | JademusSreg | Deadz, scan filter or validator or separate targeting ability if you're desperate. |
| 08:01.04 | Bounty | They're not |
| 08:01.09 | ArcanePariah | In that case, add a behavior, and set the Benign flag |
| 08:01.11 | Bounty | Unless you get technically |
| 08:01.23 | Bounty | ANYTHING can be an ethnic slur lol |
| 08:01.34 | DeadZergling | damage response of remove the behavior? |
| 08:01.38 | Bounty | as long as more than one person shares that property |
| 08:01.43 | Bounty | its ethnic |
| 08:01.59 | JademusSreg | Motive, I stand corrected. |
| 08:01.59 | Bounty | So, |
| 08:02.02 | MoonEater | hello |
| 08:02.19 | Bounty | Fuck all people who use the internet name DeadZergling or MoonEater |
| 08:02.23 | Bounty | Thats ethnic |
| 08:02.27 | DeadZergling | hello Devil's Advocate |
| 08:02.29 | Bounty | >.< |
| 08:02.36 | MoonEater | lolz |
| 08:02.47 | JademusSreg | Sieve looks more like a config file format. |
| 08:02.55 | MoonEater | what im getting hate dnow for sticking up for what i belive is right? |
| 08:02.56 | motive | Haha, it's a mail processing language. |
| 08:03.01 | motive | I had to learn it :( |
| 08:03.04 | motive | It made me cry. |
| 08:03.06 | MoonEater | im captain kirk mother fuckers |
| 08:03.07 | DeadZergling | i'll try that anyways ArcanePariah, I was thinking I'd have to start him off a neutral player |
| 08:03.11 | DeadZergling | thx for the suggestion |
| 08:03.15 | motive | It's not even turing complete. |
| 08:03.25 | Bounty | If it helps, which I'm sure it will not, I got banned from the bnet forums G0A |
| 08:03.42 | Bounty | For bashing Blizzard about the popularity system |
| 08:03.45 | Bounty | about 2 years ago |
| 08:03.47 | Bounty | >.> |
| 08:03.57 | JademusSreg | Yeah, wiki'd it. Looks dreadful. |
| 08:04.08 | DeadZergling | i forget who suggested I let players kill trees/rocks |
| 08:04.13 | DeadZergling | but I'm gonna allow that too |
| 08:04.16 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, DeadZergling, just add a beahavior to the monsters that has the benign flag set, they will be entirely ignored unless you directly attack them |
| 08:04.41 | MoonEater | i made a descructable city ponce |
| 08:04.45 | MoonEater | once |
| 08:04.58 | DeadZergling | I made one lots of times, and it got destroyed a lot |
| 08:05.00 | MoonEater | al;l the trees sharks fish roads |
| 08:05.04 | JademusSreg | Oh yeah, forgot about Benign. Probably because I've not used it. =D |
| 08:05.04 | MoonEater | buildings |
| 08:05.05 | MoonEater | walls |
| 08:05.06 | DeadZergling | especially on those damn godzillas and tornados |
| 08:05.06 | Bounty | You drunk MoonEater? |
| 08:05.19 | Bounty | I sense you are |
| 08:05.25 | MoonEater | i dont drink |
| 08:05.31 | MoonEater | i just type slopy english |
| 08:05.35 | MoonEater | cause i dont give a fuck |
| 08:05.36 | MoonEater | XD |
| 08:05.38 | Bounty | ... |
| 08:05.40 | Bounty | are you... |
| 08:05.42 | Bounty | MUSLIM? |
| 08:05.45 | JademusSreg | Evar. Moon is a silicon lifeform. |
| 08:05.48 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, benign and passive are not used frequently, they are quite useful imo. Passive is the inverse of benign, it makes the unit not auto attack at all |
| 08:05.56 | MoonEater | im white |
| 08:05.59 | MoonEater | from california |
| 08:06.03 | MoonEater | born here |
| 08:06.07 | Bounty | Ah, makes sense |
| 08:06.09 | MoonEater | family from here |
| 08:06.12 | Bounty | You speak hollywood |
| 08:06.13 | ArcanePariah | lol, that explains.... everything |
| 08:06.17 | MoonEater | not even |
| 08:06.20 | MoonEater | im from north cal |
| 08:06.23 | MoonEater | no were near |
| 08:06.28 | Bounty | So you speak spanish |
| 08:06.29 | MoonEater | we hate those liberals |
| 08:06.30 | DeadZergling | hrrrrmmm, so benign does not remove the units auto attack? |
| 08:06.31 | ArcanePariah | That really explains everything :D |
| 08:06.33 | Bounty | lo |
| 08:06.43 | MoonEater | north cal, im more likely to speak canadian |
| 08:06.47 | ArcanePariah | No, passive does |
| 08:06.54 | Bounty | Nah |
| 08:06.59 | Bounty | Closer to the border than I am |
| 08:07.04 | Bounty | So therefore you speak spanish |
| 08:07.06 | DeadZergling | kk, i'm just too tired and fevery to think much tonight, lol |
| 08:07.09 | ArcanePariah | Benign = Unit will not be auto attacked. Passive = Unit will not auto attack |
| 08:07.30 | MoonEater | nice cause everyone south of pensilvania speaks spanish |
| 08:07.34 | MoonEater | epidemic |
| 08:07.42 | MoonEater | and that means everyone north speaks german? |
| 08:07.50 | Bounty | Not true |
| 08:07.54 | ArcanePariah | Me Hablo Espanol |
| 08:07.59 | Bounty | I from from Jersey, which is technically south of PA |
| 08:08.03 | ArcanePariah | <-- SoCal :D |
| 08:08.10 | Bounty | I speak english motha fucka, do you speak it as well? |
| 08:08.16 | MoonEater | lol i think im motr nothy |
| 08:08.20 | MoonEater | north* |
| 08:08.23 | MoonEater | *checks google maps |
| 08:08.33 | motive | Bounty: wat |
| 08:08.34 | motive | WAT |
| 08:08.40 | motive | New Jersey is EAST of PA |
| 08:08.49 | Bounty | South Jersey is technically south of PA |
| 08:08.59 | motive | Tell that to Philadelphia. |
| 08:09.01 | MoonEater | dude |
| 08:09.07 | Bounty | South East is you want to be a dick about it |
| 08:09.09 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:09.21 | motive | If there's anything we take seriously in #newjersey, it's geography. |
| 08:09.22 | MoonEater | ur barely north of me |
| 08:09.26 | MoonEater | like 10 miles |
| 08:09.27 | MoonEater | tops |
| 08:09.30 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:09.33 | Bounty | motive |
| 08:09.48 | motive | http://donsnotes.com/nyc-nj/nj-cultural-map.html |
| 08:10.02 | Bounty | If theres one thing we take seriously its voting for people we don't agree with at all |
| 08:10.06 | Bounty | in NJ |
| 08:10.07 | Bounty | =P |
| 08:10.08 | motive | I'm in the lovely Lawyers Driving Hybrids. |
| 08:10.25 | motive | Please tell me where you live, kthx |
| 08:10.32 | Bounty | in NJ? |
| 08:10.37 | motive | On the map, haha |
| 08:10.38 | Bounty | Glendora |
| 08:10.50 | Bounty | its a small, white town |
| 08:10.57 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:11.04 | motive | You're in Happy White Families! |
| 08:11.06 | motive | :D |
| 08:11.12 | Bounty | I grew up in Camden though |
| 08:11.16 | motive | :[ |
| 08:11.18 | Bounty | if that makes me sound less racist |
| 08:11.24 | Bounty | Got the fuck out of there |
| 08:11.25 | Bounty | :) |
| 08:11.40 | G0A | Since we dont speak enough about Stewox, I link this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScgFIKXKFkc |
| 08:11.59 | motive | Hahaha, Stewox is still around with his conspiracy theories? |
| 08:12.12 | G0A | :) |
| 08:12.20 | Bounty | I skipped ahead and saw what it was G0A |
| 08:12.27 | Bounty | and based on what I saw |
| 08:12.29 | G0A | motive http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/60147-gearing-up-interest-for-blizz-to-support-mantle-api/?page=3#p46 |
| 08:12.30 | Bounty | I'm watching it all |
| 08:12.32 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:12.33 | Bounty | one sec :) |
| 08:13.00 | Bounty | DFAKSDFHSFD |
| 08:13.00 | Bounty | DFKSJDFDS |
| 08:13.02 | Bounty | NO |
| 08:13.05 | Bounty | NO |
| 08:13.16 | motive | So Bounty, |
| 08:13.19 | Bounty | Is this bitch paid for speaking G0A? |
| 08:13.20 | motive | tell me your favorite part about new jersey. |
| 08:14.02 | Bounty | I honestly have no favorite part except that its home |
| 08:14.10 | motive | WELL FINE, be boring. |
| 08:14.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
| 08:14.24 | Bounty | nothing good about this state lol |
| 08:14.37 | Bounty | California cost of living for no reason |
| 08:14.49 | Bounty | Because we are near a shitty city |
| 08:14.52 | Bounty | :) |
| 08:14.54 | motive | We're right next to new york, haha, that's why it's so expensive. |
| 08:15.00 | motive | I hope you mean Camden ;0 |
| 08:15.01 | Bounty | I know |
| 08:15.08 | Bounty | But I don't go to NY |
| 08:15.14 | Bounty | so... |
| 08:15.20 | Bounty | why am I paying for it |
| 08:15.22 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:15.27 | motive | I'm supposed to go today but between the snow and sick I dont think it's happening |
| 08:15.33 | motive | though if I make it into the city I'm getting free dinner... |
| 08:15.34 | motive | fuck |
| 08:15.45 | Bounty | I've been enjoying the snow, for my sons sake |
| 08:15.53 | Bounty | kid is 2 years old and has never seen snow until now |
| 08:15.58 | Bounty | llolol |
| 08:15.59 | motive | aw |
| 08:16.03 | motive | and Texas beat us |
| 08:16.04 | motive | Fucking Texas. |
| 08:16.13 | Bounty | Meh its fine |
| 08:16.20 | Bounty | At least we got snow when it made sense this year |
| 08:16.32 | JademusSreg | Favorite part of new jersey: the picturesque beachside overshadowed by the tower construct of bleached eldritch bones. |
| 08:16.37 | Bounty | Last year it was like -50f and no snow |
| 08:17.11 | Bounty | NJ could be an amazing state if the cost of living was not retarded |
| 08:17.23 | motive | JademusSreg: Barnegat Lighthouse? :) I've never been there |
| 08:17.31 | Bounty | If you live in the south, you still pay close to NYC price |
| 08:17.35 | Bounty | makes no sense |
| 08:17.37 | motive | NJ can't have a low cost of living, we're the most densely populated state in the USA. |
| 08:17.49 | motive | Cost of living goes up as population does |
| 08:17.56 | Bounty | Yeah but thats bc of NYC and Philly |
| 08:18.01 | Bounty | and honestly, lets be honest |
| 08:18.02 | motive | so? haha |
| 08:18.08 | Bounty | Nobody gives a fuck about Philly |
| 08:18.11 | Bounty | at all |
| 08:18.14 | motive | I agree with that. |
| 08:18.38 | JademusSreg | Nothing says low-taxes and prosperity like a horrifyingly surreal structure made of twisted decaying remenants. |
| 08:18.38 | Bounty | NJ only cares about Philly because its a hell of a lot better than praising Camden |
| 08:18.39 | Bounty | lolol |
| 08:19.07 | kingTD | fuck yeah HS servers up! |
| 08:19.10 | Bounty | I personally want to move to either Canada or North Carolina |
| 08:19.15 | Bounty | I heard good things about NC |
| 08:19.15 | G0A | kingTD yeah |
| 08:19.28 | motive | NJ is pretty great though, you've got everything really. You have nice suburbs, moderately populated cities, and the northern half is always within about an hours trip to NYC. |
| 08:19.37 | motive | And beach of course. |
| 08:19.39 | kingTD | g0a so how much matches u already played today? |
| 08:19.55 | Bounty | Its not worth it the price though motive |
| 08:20.00 | Bounty | Camden is spreading |
| 08:20.05 | Bounty | big time |
| 08:20.13 | motive | Camden can spread? |
| 08:20.17 | Bounty | yep |
| 08:20.20 | motive | IS IT COMING TO GET ME? |
| 08:20.20 | motive | D: |
| 08:20.22 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, figure I can induce a sense of the walls closing in by increasing the number of cells in diagram corresponding to the stage value. |
| 08:20.29 | G0A | kingTD just put to gather an arena set |
| 08:20.53 | JademusSreg | Would be entertaining to me if a map could trigger claustrophobia. |
| 08:20.53 | Bounty | after I lived in Camden, I lived in Pennsauken which is next to camden |
| 08:20.54 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 08:21.06 | Bounty | I went back to Pennsauken a few years ago |
| 08:21.10 | Bounty | and its a shit hole |
| 08:21.29 | motive | The north-western part of NJ is absolutely beautiful, like around Mount Olive. |
| 08:21.35 | motive | Waaaaaay too rural for me, but beautiful. |
| 08:21.53 | Bounty | I also lived in Atco for awhile but, that place was always a shit hole, it just had lots of open land to cover it lolo |
| 08:22.09 | Bounty | I agree |
| 08:22.17 | Bounty | North Jersey is nice |
| 08:22.21 | JademusSreg | (Oh, Bounty might enjoy the design. Can elaborate when I return.) |
| 08:22.33 | Bounty | Which is why I am for separating North and South Jersey |
| 08:22.49 | Bounty | da fuck you talking about JademusSreg |
| 08:22.50 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:22.53 | motive | Hell no, New Jersey is united in our love for pork rolls. |
| 08:22.58 | motive | Nothing can tear us apart! |
| 08:23.07 | Bounty | psh |
| 08:23.13 | Bounty | No idea what you're talking about |
| 08:23.26 | motive | :[ |
| 08:23.47 | Bounty | from my 6 years as a Manager at Wawa, we told way more croissant sausage egg and cheese than pork roll egg and cheese |
| 08:23.52 | Bounty | sold* |
| 08:23.58 | Bounty | >.< |
| 08:24.18 | motive | Fine, s/pork roll/wawa or quickchek/g |
| 08:24.22 | motive | UNITED. |
| 08:24.28 | Bounty | nope |
| 08:24.49 | Bounty | North is awesome because there are almost no poor people |
| 08:24.56 | Bounty | South is for poor peeps |
| 08:25.06 | motive | hahaha, what? |
| 08:25.08 | motive | have you heard of newark? |
| 08:25.08 | Bounty | and middle class who think they're rich |
| 08:25.09 | Bounty | :) |
| 08:25.10 | motive | jersey city? |
| 08:25.26 | Bounty | I've heard tales of those places |
| 08:25.32 | Bounty | I have yet to visit |
| 08:25.37 | motive | they're quite poor |
| 08:25.52 | Bounty | Thats two places |
| 08:26.00 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:26.05 | Bounty | We have Camden dude |
| 08:26.30 | motive | Orange, Clifton, hoboken |
| 08:26.31 | motive | list goes on |
| 08:26.38 | motive | elizabeth |
| 08:26.41 | Bounty | never heard of it |
| 08:26.53 | Bounty | Probably because its North |
| 08:26.59 | Bounty | like I said, two separate states |
| 08:27.00 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:27.01 | motive | Newark NJ even won worst city in the world once |
| 08:27.13 | motive | http://newarknj.patch.com/groups/around-town/p/newark-unfriendliest-city-in-the-us--and-the-world--says-conde-nast |
| 08:27.35 | motive | we lost to islamabad, pakistan |
| 08:27.36 | motive | haha |
| 08:27.38 | Bounty | yeah |
| 08:27.51 | Bounty | Unfriendliest |
| 08:28.06 | Bounty | Assuming being friendly is not shooting you in the face |
| 08:28.08 | motive | well they're also poor |
| 08:28.10 | Bounty | Than yeah |
| 08:28.11 | motive | and they shoot you in the face, yeah |
| 08:28.29 | Bounty | Just saying |
| 08:28.42 | Bounty | On the whole, this state is shit |
| 08:28.45 | motive | moral of the story is, philly sucks |
| 08:28.51 | Bounty | Yep |
| 08:28.58 | Bounty | bomb em |
| 08:29.02 | Bounty | wipe em out |
| 08:29.05 | motive | I dont know about that. |
| 08:29.12 | Bounty | so we don't have to pay premiums for living close to them |
| 08:29.13 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:29.19 | Bounty | NYC I get |
| 08:29.21 | Bounty | but Philly? |
| 08:29.24 | Bounty | Really? |
| 08:29.31 | Bounty | The place is a shit hole |
| 08:29.35 | motive | South jersey is just kind of dragged along for the NYC ride |
| 08:29.36 | Bounty | with a statue of Rocky |
| 08:29.44 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 08:29.52 | Bounty | Its about a 2-3 hour drive from us |
| 08:30.03 | Bounty | When we had to go to Kennedy Airport |
| 08:30.29 | Bounty | Honestly, the best part was the sign that said "Fuggetaboutit" |
| 08:30.32 | Bounty | one word |
| 08:30.37 | Bounty | >.< |
| 08:31.31 | motive | Yeah I had a friend fly out of there once, I did a nice little roundabout trip over the GW and over 9A and FDR to see the full skyline |
| 08:31.39 | motive | Total tolls were more than the cost to fill up my gas tank, bahahaha |
| 08:31.41 | Bounty | idk though, I think I just hate this state because of its cost of living + Christie |
| 08:31.58 | Bounty | yeah |
| 08:32.03 | Bounty | Its insane |
| 08:32.07 | Bounty | Which is why I said |
| 08:32.10 | motive | and that, is why you take the train |
| 08:32.22 | Bounty | The wife and I are considering either Canada or North Carolina |
| 08:32.26 | Bounty | >.< |
| 08:32.30 | motive | You can be friends with JademusSreg! |
| 08:32.33 | motive | He's in NC, I think |
| 08:32.49 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 08:32.50 | Bounty | I sincerely doubt that would work out |
| 08:32.52 | motive | Hmm, nope, his whois says Tennessee. |
| 08:32.56 | JademusSreg | Knoxville. |
| 08:32.58 | motive | Someone else here was in NC. |
| 08:33.05 | Bounty | Probably Stewox |
| 08:33.07 | Bounty | knowing my luck |
| 08:33.08 | motive | God help you. |
| 08:33.22 | motive | No I think that was Taintedwisp |
| 08:33.22 | motive | yeah |
| 08:33.46 | JademusSreg | Anyway, Parish. |
| 08:33.48 | G0A | Bounty sadly Stewox is close to me, in central europe |
| 08:33.55 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:33.57 | Bounty | wtf |
| 08:34.06 | Bounty | hes a europeon? |
| 08:34.10 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 08:34.13 | G0A | yes |
| 08:34.17 | motive | Americans aren't the only dumb ones. |
| 08:34.19 | Bounty | Why the fuck is he preaching Alex Jones? |
| 08:34.20 | motive | It's a mostly universal phenomenon. |
| 08:34.23 | Bounty | Makes no sense |
| 08:34.30 | motive | Hahaha, oh God, Alex Jones... that man... |
| 08:34.35 | motive | I don't understand how people can listen to him. |
| 08:34.38 | Bounty | wow |
| 08:34.46 | Bounty | This just became interesting |
| 08:34.53 | G0A | :D |
| 08:35.22 | Bounty | He speaks like a brainwashes 9/11 truther but hes not even from USA |
| 08:35.25 | Bounty | fucking paradox |
| 08:35.32 | Bounty | brainwashed* |
| 08:36.03 | G0A | welcome to the internet age, where everyone can get retarded |
| 08:36.07 | Bounty | I have to admit, I was into that shit back when Loose Change came out lol |
| 08:36.33 | motive | Occam's Razor pretty much destroys Loose Change. |
| 08:36.57 | Bounty | Never saw it |
| 08:36.59 | Bounty | I don't think the government did it though |
| 08:37.11 | Bounty | At the very least, I think they knew |
| 08:37.21 | motive | Never underestimate the power of incompetence. |
| 08:37.23 | Bounty | Based on our history |
| 08:37.37 | motive | They likely have the information they needed to stop it, but didn't know what they had until later. |
| 08:37.47 | motive | likely had* |
| 08:37.48 | Bounty | I just don't think our government is THAT good to pull that shit off themselves lol |
| 08:38.01 | Bounty | That is possible as well |
| 08:38.01 | motive | Our government can't even spy on us properly. |
| 08:38.10 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 08:38.26 | motive | If our government was as powerful as people thought it was, Snowden would be dead. |
| 08:38.31 | motive | Or coerced. :) |
| 08:38.44 | Bounty | I go on porn sites now and instead of pop ups showing a hot girl in my area trying to talk to me I get an NSA agent |
| 08:38.52 | Bounty | fucking noobs |
| 08:38.59 | Ahli | people in the government are as lazy and incompetent as everyone else... |
| 08:39.05 | motive | ^ |
| 08:39.34 | Bounty | I do believe Alex Jones says a lot of shit that is true |
| 08:39.45 | Bounty | the problem is the other 90% of the shit he says |
| 08:39.51 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:40.04 | Bounty | He has to fill airtime |
| 08:40.07 | Bounty | with something |
| 08:40.35 | Bounty | Does not take a rocket scientist to research shit and know if someone is full of it or not |
| 08:40.45 | Bounty | Example |
| 08:40.52 | motive | The problem comes from how you interpret the facts. Glenn Beck likes to say the Germans used to print money, and their economy completely collapsed under hyperinflation, so if we print money (and we do), the same thing will happen. It ignores the in-between steps of the scale at which money is printed, what causes inflation, etc. |
| 08:41.04 | motive | It's just panic selling. |
| 08:41.18 | Bounty | Alex Jones once said that their is a chemical in Juice boxes that inflates estrogen which makes men gay and gives women breast cancer |
| 08:41.36 | Bounty | I wish I was trolling |
| 08:41.59 | motive | Yeah, and again, interpretation. Apples have trace amounts of cyanide, a chemical which can kill you. |
| 08:42.03 | motive | Should you stop eating apples? Fuck no. |
| 08:42.10 | motive | There is such a thing as a safe amount of almost everything. |
| 08:42.17 | JademusSreg | Here's a chat excerpt of what I've said about Parish so far. https://pastee.org/cbj3r |
| 08:42.22 | Bounty | How did the german economy collapse? |
| 08:42.28 | Bounty | if I may ask |
| 08:42.43 | Bounty | I am curious because I thought it was because they printed too much money lol |
| 08:43.02 | motive | They printed money on a scale that was just mind-numbingly stupid. Also, the allies set them up to fail by requiring them to pay for all the war damages that WW1 countries had. |
| 08:43.07 | motive | No way one country could sustain that much debt. |
| 08:43.10 | motive | They were fucked from the start. |
| 08:43.32 | Bounty | Well that was part of what started WW2 right? |
| 08:43.40 | Bounty | because of WW1 |
| 08:44.08 | Ahli | yeah, wiki states WWI reparations |
| 08:44.10 | motive | Right, the German economy collapsed, the people were extremely vulnerable to ideas like Hitler's because Hitler knew how to put people to work. War is an extremely effective economic stimulus package. |
| 08:44.24 | motive | And the Germans were (rightfully so) pissed at the WW1 allies for basically making it so they couldn't eat. |
| 08:44.29 | Bounty | It would have happened without Hitler from what I read |
| 08:44.37 | motive | Hitler just made it extraordinarily worse. |
| 08:44.41 | Bounty | Hitler tried to a loooong time |
| 08:44.44 | Bounty | and kept failing |
| 08:45.03 | Bounty | I saw a video that consisted of all of the Nazis |
| 08:45.10 | Bounty | and it was like 20 people marching down the street |
| 08:45.13 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:45.21 | motive | It's also funny watching people say that China can come back and "call in our debt" at any given time. |
| 08:45.25 | motive | That's not how debt works, hehe |
| 08:45.42 | motive | My credit card company can't even "call in my debt". I signed a contract that states what my interest rates and payments required are, and over what period. |
| 08:45.49 | Bounty | Those people have never had a credit card Motive |
| 08:45.57 | Bounty | nor do they understand how credit cards work |
| 08:46.10 | motive | Credit makes the whole economy go round. :) |
| 08:46.24 | Bounty | I got into an argument the other day with someone claiming to me that the debt means nothing and that its about the deficit 100% |
| 08:46.34 | Ahli | my family still has some of those high bills/notes and coins :D |
| 08:46.40 | motive | The deficit doesn't matter unless you can't make the payments on it. |
| 08:46.49 | Ahli | people burned the money because it was cheaper than other things that could burn |
| 08:47.06 | Bounty | The deficit is our income - spending |
| 08:47.10 | Bounty | which is also shit |
| 08:47.15 | Bounty | BUT |
| 08:47.23 | Bounty | the debt, is our credit card balance |
| 08:47.31 | motive | Income - Spending. Spending is cut drastically, but it doesn't matter because the income is nonexistent due to the Bush tax cuts. :( |
| 08:47.35 | Bounty | So even if we balance out our deficity |
| 08:47.40 | Bounty | deficit* |
| 08:47.40 | JademusSreg | In Parish, the enemies are the players, rather like how a (not-measured) wave can interfere with itself. |
| 08:47.46 | Bounty | who knows what could happen in the future |
| 08:47.52 | motive | JademusSreg: Sounds like quantum mechanics. |
| 08:48.14 | Bounty | Which is why you don't go out and get a credit card, max that shit out even if you have a good job |
| 08:48.20 | JademusSreg | Yes, though if you've not read over the text I linked, may not make much sense. |
| 08:48.29 | Bounty | because you don't know what could happen in the future |
| 08:48.30 | motive | I have it open, I haven't read it yet. Haha |
| 08:48.31 | Bounty | make sense? or was I wrong? lol |
| 08:48.54 | motive | You can max out a credit card if you really want to, it'll hurt your credit score but as long as you pay it off, hey, whatever works for you. |
| 08:49.19 | Bounty | 20-40% utilization is deal |
| 08:49.29 | Bounty | but what I was saying was |
| 08:49.31 | motive | Yup. |
| 08:49.34 | Bounty | You cannot predict the future |
| 08:49.46 | Bounty | so, you should not max that shit out, even if you have a good job |
| 08:49.59 | Bounty | which is why the debt is just as important, even if we fix the deficity |
| 08:50.02 | motive | Our nation's borrowing power has no limit though. People don't get that. :( |
| 08:50.08 | Bounty | why the fuck do I keep typing deficity |
| 08:50.52 | Bounty | That is what I don't agree with |
| 08:50.52 | JademusSreg | (One can predict the future; the future, however, is under no obligation to comply with predictions.) |
| 08:51.05 | Bounty | our borrowing power has a limit |
| 08:51.11 | motive | We can also specify the certainty to which we're sure of the future. |
| 08:51.11 | Bounty | we just keep raising it |
| 08:51.23 | motive | I mean it has no limit that we don't impose on it ourselves, yeah |
| 08:51.25 | Bounty | and the banks we borrow from love that we keep raising our credit borrowing limit |
| 08:51.34 | Bounty | Just like the banks love it before the crash |
| 08:51.39 | Bounty | >.< |
| 08:52.01 | Bounty | I mean, I could be wrong |
| 08:52.11 | Bounty | I'm no Alex Jones |
| 08:52.13 | motive | The big problem right now is that trickle down economics doesn't work. The banks can basically borrow money for free right now with interest rates where they are. |
| 08:52.19 | Bounty | Just going based off my own common sense |
| 08:52.35 | motive | If trickle down economics worked, we'd be seeing massive growth in the economy. |
| 08:52.40 | Bounty | The wealth gap is an issue |
| 08:52.43 | motive | Yup |
| 08:53.11 | Bounty | and it has to be redistributed to be fixed |
| 08:53.12 | motive | The way to fix the wealth gap is to force the lowest denomination up closer to the top with minimum wage, and tax the wealthy. If it becomes costly to hold onto money, then the wealthy will invest it. |
| 08:53.16 | Bounty | but the problem is |
| 08:53.22 | Bounty | who gets a check? |
| 08:53.23 | motive | If I can sit on my $5 billion forever, i have no incentive to do anything with it. |
| 08:53.33 | motive | That's what taxes are for, give it to the government. |
| 08:53.37 | Bounty | I've had this discussion before and many people know how I feel about it lol |
| 08:53.53 | motive | The government can then spend it on infrastructure, science, education, etc. |
| 08:53.57 | motive | Direct benefits to the people |
| 08:54.04 | motive | Nobody gets a check directly, everyone works for it. |
| 08:54.16 | Bounty | What about people in their late 20's or early 30's? |
| 08:54.29 | motive | They borrow that money in the form of cheap education loans, or grants. |
| 08:54.30 | Bounty | that need a good paying job but got fucked because of the system |
| 08:54.48 | Bounty | I think its very simple |
| 08:54.54 | Bounty | You have tiers of earnings |
| 08:55.02 | Bounty | 3 or 4, give or take |
| 08:55.13 | DeadZergling | that worked fine ArcanePariah |
| 08:55.16 | Bounty | the lowest pays a living wage that you can live off of |
| 08:55.18 | motive | We already do, in the tax code. For some reason I pay more as a percentage than Warren Buffet. :( |
| 08:55.28 | Bounty | the higher your tier, the more you make |
| 08:55.38 | Bounty | but you can never earn less than what can give you a living |
| 08:55.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (proprietar@216.131.104.160) |
| 08:55.45 | Bounty | as long as you contribute |
| 08:55.49 | Bounty | to society |
| 08:56.12 | Bounty | Income Taxes should be abolished |
| 08:56.26 | motive | Those changes are waaaaay too radical for America. |
| 08:56.27 | Bounty | Government should be able to be funded through sales Taxes |
| 08:56.29 | ArcanePariah | Ultimately the final question needs to be asked: What is the limit on what one entity can possess in wealth? |
| 08:56.30 | motive | And I think too far overreaching. |
| 08:56.42 | Bounty | Off the bat yes |
| 08:56.44 | Bounty | but |
| 08:56.51 | Bounty | I agree motive |
| 08:56.51 | Bounty | it would work |
| 08:56.54 | motive | ArcanePariah: None, but it should be a logarithmic scale. In the 20's, the income tax for the mega wealthy was like 94%. |
| 08:57.13 | ArcanePariah | Taxes by definition are a limit |
| 08:57.14 | motive | So they'd earn less and less of every dollar they make. |
| 08:57.25 | Bounty | I predict that either we get our act together or will end up like Brazil |
| 08:57.31 | Bounty | there will be a class war |
| 08:57.32 | motive | Probably. |
| 08:57.37 | Bounty | and the lower class will win |
| 08:57.39 | Bounty | on numbers alone |
| 08:57.39 | motive | People think we need to race to the bottom, cheaper labor, etc. |
| 08:57.43 | motive | America doesn't specialize in cheaper labor anymore. |
| 08:57.45 | motive | China does. |
| 08:57.50 | motive | We specialize in skilled, high paid labor. |
| 08:57.56 | ArcanePariah | But yes motive I agree, the progressive tax structure should go all the way to near 100% |
| 08:58.03 | motive | Go to Europe and ask if they want a Cisco router or a Chinese one. They'll pay for the American-made product. |
| 08:58.13 | Bounty | Its simple, like I just said |
| 08:58.24 | Bounty | You take a pay structure like communism, which obviously does not work |
| 08:58.29 | Bounty | but you break it up into tiers |
| 08:58.40 | Bounty | Obviously a doctor should make more than a fast food worker |
| 08:58.44 | motive | I don't like tiers. What happens when I reach the top? |
| 08:58.44 | ArcanePariah | Duh, why buy the knockoff (Last I heard, Huawei routers are flat out duplicates of Cisco, complete with bugs :D) |
| 08:58.46 | motive | 0 motivation. |
| 08:58.49 | Bounty | so the doctor would be tier... 3? |
| 08:58.59 | Bounty | BUT |
| 08:59.01 | motive | What if I'm better than the doctor next to me? |
| 08:59.03 | Bounty | the fast food worker could survive |
| 08:59.07 | motive | It raises all sorts of bad problems. |
| 08:59.14 | Bounty | I agree |
| 08:59.16 | motive | Capitalism is a good thing, it just needs to be tempered with regulation. |
| 08:59.24 | Bounty | Its a flaw in our society though motive |
| 08:59.35 | ArcanePariah | That's indeed the problem, how to do you reward in a way that can not be self sutaining? |
| 08:59.41 | Bounty | the drive to make you be a doctor should not b e the money |
| 08:59.44 | Bounty | granted |
| 08:59.47 | Bounty | under my system |
| 08:59.49 | Bounty | you would make more |
| 08:59.53 | Bounty | but thats not the reason |
| 09:00.03 | Bounty | You do it because thats what you want to do |
| 09:00.05 | motive | The drive for me to be a better sysadmin right now is purely cash. =p |
| 09:00.06 | ArcanePariah | If you permit investment, you permit the usage of money to make more money, which, taken to the extreme, allows one to systematically take control of all wealth |
| 09:00.21 | ArcanePariah | See feudalism for the outcome |
| 09:00.38 | Bounty | Capitalism does not work because it feeds on our number 1 flaw |
| 09:00.58 | Bounty | While we could be evolving out of it |
| 09:01.02 | ArcanePariah | So there must be some kind of soft (progressive tax) or hard (other methods/regulations) limit on wealth poessession |
| 09:01.43 | Bounty | The way I see it is, Capitalism is amazing at first until eventually the people who did well at the start of it are eventually doing amazing |
| 09:01.45 | JademusSreg | *lending |
| 09:01.46 | motive | Capitalism works fine if you put a limit on it. If the tax rate increases logarithmically with how much you earn per year, you reach a point at which no one person can ever control the wealth because no matter how much you make your wealth is an asymptote. |
| 09:01.56 | Bounty | You can't put a limit on it though |
| 09:01.59 | Bounty | Thats the problem |
| 09:02.00 | motive | Sure you can. |
| 09:02.02 | motive | It's called income tax. |
| 09:02.11 | Bounty | They will just ship jobs over seas |
| 09:02.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (Raziel@78.97.98.119) |
| 09:02.23 | Bounty | It would work in a World Govenment |
| 09:02.31 | Bounty | and thank god Stewox is not here to hear me say that |
| 09:02.35 | motive | We're tending towards a world government anyways |
| 09:02.37 | motive | it's inevitable, imo |
| 09:02.38 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:02.42 | Bounty | it is |
| 09:02.45 | ArcanePariah | Bounty, in that case, for such things, we do have methods, its called we make it illegal and throw your ass in jail :D |
| 09:02.45 | Bounty | Its survival |
| 09:02.51 | Bounty | a planetary society |
| 09:02.53 | Bounty | HOPEFULLY |
| 09:02.55 | Bounty | for the better |
| 09:03.19 | Bounty | make what illegal ArcanePariah |
| 09:03.39 | ArcanePariah | Ship jobs overseas, or any other behavior we want to prohibit? |
| 09:03.48 | ArcanePariah | 0 |
| 09:03.50 | Bounty | I mean, maybe I'm a hippie or something but I think we should just work together for the greater good of our species |
| 09:03.57 | Bounty | and I think we need proof of aliens |
| 09:04.00 | Bounty | to make that happen |
| 09:04.04 | Bounty | we need a competitor |
| 09:04.09 | motive | Please, shipping jobs overseas, I'm not an amateur. |
| 09:04.12 | motive | I'm shipping my jobs to the moon. |
| 09:04.12 | Bounty | outside of ourselves |
| 09:04.16 | motive | Tax me now, bitches. |
| 09:04.38 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 09:04.44 | Bounty | Or am I just borderline Stewox? |
| 09:04.45 | ArcanePariah | motive, no problem we declare your stuff extranational and just blow it up :D |
| 09:05.01 | ArcanePariah | US needs to use those nuke somehow :D |
| 09:05.14 | Bounty | Honestly |
| 09:05.25 | Bounty | Does anyone in this IRC have any doubts that we're not alone? |
| 09:05.31 | motive | Bounty: you're dangerously close to philosophy. |
| 09:05.31 | Bounty | Its common sense |
| 09:05.32 | motive | yes |
| 09:05.36 | motive | I do :O |
| 09:05.43 | motive | I have a different approach though |
| 09:05.45 | Bounty | Why motive? |
| 09:05.52 | Bounty | or should I say how? lol |
| 09:05.55 | motive | I think the universe is deterministic, so we don't count as intelligent life. |
| 09:06.00 | motive | haha |
| 09:06.01 | ArcanePariah | Statistically speaking, we are not, but you now have very very narrow odds of existance intersecting with narrow odds of interplanetary travel |
| 09:06.03 | Bounty | that is true |
| 09:06.08 | Bounty | I agree with that in some sense |
| 09:06.14 | Bounty | but I'm talking about life in general |
| 09:06.25 | motive | Oh sure, absolutely. Life is much more fundamental than even intelligence though |
| 09:06.31 | motive | It's literally in math |
| 09:06.34 | Bounty | Most likely, we're not the most advanced |
| 09:06.34 | Bounty | by a long shot |
| 09:06.40 | motive | makes the transition to philosophy. |
| 09:06.47 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:06.50 | Bounty | ok motive |
| 09:06.51 | JademusSreg | Curious how thermodynamics is nearly never referenced in dicussions of economics. |
| 09:06.54 | Bounty | help me out here |
| 09:06.57 | Bounty | seriously |
| 09:07.00 | Bounty | I've been wondering this |
| 09:07.05 | motive | Entropy is an interesting concept. |
| 09:07.06 | Bounty | because this is how I've thought of it |
| 09:07.12 | Bounty | ok |
| 09:07.16 | Bounty | Dinosaurs |
| 09:07.22 | motive | I've always been fascinated by the fact that scientists believe the net sum of the energy in the universe is 0. It's a completely balanced equation, and yet we're here. |
| 09:07.23 | Ahli | because economists don't learn thermodynamics |
| 09:07.24 | Bounty | about 6 million years ago yes? |
| 09:07.35 | Bounty | give or take? |
| 09:07.38 | Bounty | or am I mistaken? |
| 09:07.44 | Ahli | economists learn how to be unsocial to maximize profit |
| 09:07.55 | motive | Net Sum of All Energy Fields (pos) = Net Sum of all Forces (neg) |
| 09:08.06 | motive | It means you CAN get cake for free, and eat it, too. :) |
| 09:08.21 | JademusSreg | Sure, yet not even in these less-than-rigorous economic discussions, hardly mentioned. =D |
| 09:08.25 | Bounty | God damnit, listen to meh |
| 09:08.27 | Bounty | this is important |
| 09:08.29 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:08.47 | motive | I dunno the timeframe for dinosaurs, I'm not qualified. Lol |
| 09:08.48 | Bounty | DInosaurs, 6 million years ago they were wiped out yes? |
| 09:08.52 | Bounty | thats fine |
| 09:08.53 | Ahli | I stopped going to my thermodynamics class, so I can't contribute to this :S |
| 09:09.02 | Bounty | its probably more than 6 million |
| 09:09.02 | Bounty | but lets take that number ok? |
| 09:09.05 | Bounty | My theory is |
| 09:09.42 | JademusSreg | I mean, one would assume that Law of Conservation would be necessary to understanding economics. |
| 09:09.45 | Bounty | If the dinosaurs were ( to us at least) considered a failed mutation 6 million years ago |
| 09:10.04 | Bounty | Given the vastness of the universe, who is not to say that somewhere else |
| 09:10.11 | motive | JademusSreg: For every profit, there must be an equal and opposite loss. :) |
| 09:10.16 | Bounty | another mutation was dominating a planet |
| 09:10.20 | Bounty | only intelligent |
| 09:10.26 | Bounty | not like the dinosaurs |
| 09:10.36 | motive | Bounty: Want me to blow your mind? You're thinking way too narrowly. |
| 09:10.37 | JademusSreg | Yes, and additional inefficiency. =D |
| 09:10.40 | Bounty | You can even give or take a few million years lol |
| 09:11.03 | Bounty | I know what I said is narrow |
| 09:11.11 | Bounty | But I only bring that up for people that think we're it |
| 09:11.17 | Bounty | literally, that we are IT |
| 09:11.27 | Bounty | at all, ever |
| 09:11.28 | motive | Reduction to the absurd. In the real world, and programming, you can say for example, a Ford F-150 is a type of PickupTruck, which is a Car, which is a MotorizedVehicle, etc... all the way down to Atoms, Electrons, etc. |
| 09:11.33 | motive | One layer of abstraction upon the next, right? |
| 09:11.50 | Bounty | fuckin a dude |
| 09:11.53 | Bounty | its 4am |
| 09:12.00 | Bounty | continue though |
| 09:12.05 | Bounty | I'll google this |
| 09:12.07 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:12.18 | motive | I think the final layer of abstraction is an idea. Just an idea, and all ideas are true and therefore, exist. |
| 09:12.38 | motive | So, this works to generate our world very simply, because ideas which can't be consistent with one another stop while they're fairly simple. |
| 09:12.50 | motive | i.e. there can never be a world where Pi = 4 and exists in Euclidean space |
| 09:12.52 | motive | It's contradictory |
| 09:13.03 | motive | So ideas naturally select like evolution into increasingly complex systems where they're not mutually exclusive |
| 09:13.09 | motive | Mathematics arises out of the ways to describe that |
| 09:13.13 | motive | And we're all living in one grand idea :) |
| 09:13.28 | Bounty | I think its much deeper than that lol |
| 09:13.35 | Bounty | If that is even possible |
| 09:13.36 | motive | What could be more fundamental than an idea? :P |
| 09:14.00 | Bounty | I personally think we're all energy |
| 09:14.05 | JademusSreg | =\ |
| 09:14.11 | motive | Energy is an idea. |
| 09:14.28 | motive | Energy and Matter are opposite sides of the same coin, they still cancel out. |
| 09:14.55 | Bounty | I just don't think the universe wastes anything |
| 09:15.02 | Ahli | so, ideas don't matter? |
| 09:15.11 | Bounty | Everything seems to recycle |
| 09:15.16 | JademusSreg | Not even opposite; energy is incredibly abstract, matter at least has form and qualities and shit. =D |
| 09:15.17 | Bounty | I think the biggest question we could answer |
| 09:15.20 | motive | Ideas DO matter, but we're searching for something that doesn't cancel out. |
| 09:15.26 | Bounty | Is what is consciousness? |
| 09:15.31 | Bounty | That is the question |
| 09:15.36 | motive | Consciousness is a feedback loop. |
| 09:15.36 | Bounty | We NEED to answer |
| 09:15.45 | motive | A cat is aware of it's senses. |
| 09:15.46 | Bounty | oh ok, so you have the answer? |
| 09:15.47 | JademusSreg | Self-modeling model. |
| 09:15.53 | Bounty | Alright so.. |
| 09:15.54 | motive | A human is aware of it's senses, and the fact that it's aware of it's senses. |
| 09:15.57 | Bounty | you're telling me |
| 09:16.01 | motive | So the human now has to repeat that cycle, to infinity. |
| 09:16.18 | motive | Because now the human is aware of the fact that it's aware of it's senses and that it's aware, and has to think about that some more. |
| 09:16.20 | Bounty | I'm about to learn what consciousness is in an IRC? |
| 09:16.23 | Bounty | really? |
| 09:16.23 | motive | Which changes it's states again. |
| 09:16.26 | motive | REpeat again. |
| 09:16.27 | Bounty | Is this how it goes down? |
| 09:16.30 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:16.30 | motive | It's a feedback loop |
| 09:16.31 | motive | haha |
| 09:16.33 | motive | That's just my thought |
| 09:16.54 | Bounty | I think our brains are quite literally machines |
| 09:17.02 | Bounty | that energy inhabits |
| 09:17.04 | Bounty | idk... |
| 09:17.11 | Bounty | I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about |
| 09:17.12 | Bounty | rofl |
| 09:17.19 | DeadZergling | Few do |
| 09:17.21 | motive | The feature that defines consciousness is that you're aware of the fact that you're aware, which necessitates a change in your internal state to define that. But once you're internal state is changed, you become aware of your new internal state, which necessitates another change in your internal state, which repeats the process forever.... |
| 09:17.28 | Bounty | At least I admit it though, thank god |
| 09:17.31 | motive | Allows your brain to be a machine, or a math problem, or a turing machine, or whatever, and still conscious. |
| 09:17.41 | Bounty | I mean, I've read so many stories |
| 09:17.45 | Bounty | about the third eye |
| 09:17.52 | Bounty | and everyone sees the same thing |
| 09:18.02 | Bounty | the same energy based life forms |
| 09:18.06 | Bounty | its fucking crazy |
| 09:18.12 | Bounty | I think thats what it is |
| 09:18.20 | Bounty | Very simple |
| 09:18.26 | Bounty | in that sense at least lol |
| 09:19.06 | Bounty | I think its just a continuous process of energy |
| 09:19.22 | Bounty | you don't "die" in the sense that we define it |
| 09:19.29 | Bounty | you're recycled |
| 09:19.38 | Bounty | you don't go to heaven either lol |
| 09:19.44 | Bounty | but you're just recycles |
| 09:19.45 | motive | I don't like that, I think it's too human centric. |
| 09:19.48 | Bounty | recycled* |
| 09:19.55 | Bounty | its not |
| 09:19.59 | motive | Or it somehow makes consciousness "special" somehow. |
| 09:20.04 | JademusSreg | Self-modeling proved advantageous to survival, as such a model enables the conception of self-knowledge and choice, the identification of which allows predictive, contextually sensitive consideration of possible choices, identify those choices made and in association with their consequences determine their value. |
| 09:20.07 | Bounty | being energy fucking sucks |
| 09:20.11 | Bounty | compared to being a human |
| 09:20.13 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:20.27 | Bounty | imagine dieng and realizing oh shit, i'm a fucking atom now |
| 09:20.34 | motive | You wouldn't realize it though, that's the point. |
| 09:20.38 | Bounty | yeah |
| 09:20.42 | Bounty | exactly |
| 09:20.49 | motive | Reality is only "physical" because we say it is. That's why I like the universe of ideas better. |
| 09:20.52 | Bounty | So its not human centric |
| 09:20.53 | motive | An idea doesn't know that it's only an idea. |
| 09:21.00 | motive | An idea perceives all other ideas to be real. |
| 09:21.04 | motive | As real as it is. |
| 09:21.04 | motive | :) |
| 09:21.09 | Bounty | There is no after "life" as we define it |
| 09:21.11 | Bounty | there is something |
| 09:21.16 | Bounty | but you don't even know its going on |
| 09:21.22 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 09:21.33 | Ahli | who thinks that there is an afterlife? :X |
| 09:21.40 | Bounty | not me |
| 09:21.41 | motive | I don't, haha. |
| 09:21.45 | Bounty | like i said lol |
| 09:21.46 | motive | Not that you're aware of in any capacity. |
| 09:21.54 | Bounty | I think there is something after you said |
| 09:22.07 | Bounty | but its not what we define as "life" |
| 09:22.21 | Bounty | You just get recycled |
| 09:22.25 | motive | I don't think there's something after because 'after' is a function of time. Time is itself a construct which eventually has to be abstracted away. |
| 09:22.28 | motive | Ultimately we all have to be something constant. |
| 09:22.48 | Bounty | Am I a hippie or something? |
| 09:22.53 | Bounty | I swear I sound like one |
| 09:22.59 | Bounty | We're energy maaaaan |
| 09:23.10 | Bounty | hit this pipe |
| 09:23.12 | Bounty | >.< |
| 09:23.20 | motive | Bounty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc |
| 09:23.22 | motive | You'll enjoy that |
| 09:23.38 | Bounty | oh boy |
| 09:23.54 | Ahli | maybe it's like the black hole stuff whern stuff can't end because time awareness gets lost. |
| 09:23.55 | Bounty | a Quantum Mechanics video |
| 09:24.07 | motive | Seriously though, it's a good video that explains very simply how some things we take for granted are not what they seem. |
| 09:24.58 | Bounty | I can already see the problem with this video |
| 09:25.09 | motive | ? |
| 09:25.23 | Bounty | Is this supposed to describe ANYTHING that occur at the Quantum level? |
| 09:25.28 | motive | Yes. |
| 09:25.38 | motive | It has to establish what we consider normal first. |
| 09:25.50 | motive | The background, especially how waves work, is essential. |
| 09:28.02 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:28.04 | motive | To me, that video basically says that the world around us is more mathematical than physical. |
| 09:28.06 | Bounty | so... |
| 09:28.14 | Bounty | electrons are conscious |
| 09:28.16 | motive | No |
| 09:28.23 | motive | No, it actually doesn't say anything about consciousness. |
| 09:28.29 | motive | That's one big common misunderstanding about QM. |
| 09:28.34 | motive | An "observer" is any kind of measurement. |
| 09:28.49 | Bounty | I mean forgive me if I'm wrong |
| 09:28.52 | Bounty | but from what I've read |
| 09:28.57 | motive | The act of measuring collapses the wave function. The measurement doesn't need to be recorded by a conscious body. |
| 09:29.18 | Bounty | the motto of Quantum Mechanics is if you claim to understand it, you don't |
| 09:29.37 | motive | Haha, I agree with that. It's just a very common misconception that the double slit experiment says anything about consciousness |
| 09:29.43 | motive | The word "observer" kind of implies it |
| 09:29.51 | Bounty | yeah |
| 09:29.54 | G0A | Bounty Feynman rocks |
| 09:30.16 | motive | I mean Bounty, consider this. |
| 09:30.19 | Bounty | I don't even know who that is lol |
| 09:30.27 | motive | If you're math, and you're inside of math... then wouldn't math appear to be physical or real to you? ;) |
| 09:30.28 | Bounty | I just watch a lot of Michio and Tyson |
| 09:30.32 | Bounty | :( |
| 09:30.36 | G0A | Bounty lol, that quote is from him " Quantum Mechanics is if you claim to understand it, you don't" |
| 09:30.44 | Bounty | Ah |
| 09:30.55 | G0A | he said though "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics." |
| 09:30.55 | Bounty | Makes sense why Tyson and Michio would say it than lol |
| 09:31.17 | Bounty | So what you're saying motive |
| 09:31.20 | Bounty | is |
| 09:31.24 | Bounty | Simulation Theory |
| 09:31.27 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:31.27 | G0A | that Michio asian guy says so much bullshit |
| 09:31.31 | motive | Not quite, no. |
| 09:31.44 | motive | I'm using my own ideas theory, but simulation theory could also apply, as could MUM |
| 09:31.51 | motive | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis |
| 09:31.54 | JademusSreg | One expects that, given there are no boolean flags embedded throughout space-time to toggle consciousness, that it is a more elastic, gradient state, diffuse in its mechanisms rather than the discrete coherent thing as we experience it. Physical activity is indiscernable from the idealized computation of its mathematical representation; all activity and in turn the diffusion of consciousness |
| 09:31.54 | JademusSreg | is reducable to computation. Sentience is merely the cognitive computation which models external state to leverage predictive power. Sapience is the cognitive computation which models additional internal state. =D |
| 09:31.57 | Bounty | I did not listen to much of his lecture G0A, he seemed to say the same thing over and over |
| 09:32.07 | Bounty | I agree |
| 09:32.11 | Bounty | I listened to mostly Tyson |
| 09:32.35 | Bounty | I love how Jade just shows the fuck up |
| 09:32.38 | Bounty | with 3 paragraphs |
| 09:32.39 | motive | Haha |
| 09:33.09 | motive | I agree with Jademus. |
| 09:33.14 | G0A | It took him 10 minutes to come with up that.D |
| 09:33.44 | motive | I think the universe gets computation for free. Not in the sense that we think of it. We have to plug in numbers, run computation, do computer cycles, etc. I think at it's core the function, say y = 1/2x, is an idea that instantly fully defines itself. It gets it's answer for free. |
| 09:33.51 | motive | It's just part of the fully fledged mathematical idea. |
| 09:33.57 | Bounty | I am not sure I quite understood what Jade said but |
| 09:34.05 | Bounty | to me it implies what I said earlier |
| 09:34.06 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 09:34.11 | Bounty | the biggest question is |
| 09:34.22 | Bounty | what is consciousness? |
| 09:34.33 | Bounty | If you can answer that.... |
| 09:34.36 | Bounty | there you go |
| 09:34.43 | motive | I tried. =p |
| 09:34.50 | Bounty | I know but |
| 09:34.53 | motive | Feedback loop of the fact that you're aware, and the fact that you're aware of the fact that you're aware. |
| 09:34.55 | Bounty | no offense motive |
| 09:35.00 | Bounty | sc2 mapster IRC... |
| 09:35.05 | motive | Haha, this isn't my idea, dont worry |
| 09:35.09 | motive | I'm not a brilliant physicist. |
| 09:35.10 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:35.12 | Bounty | answering what is consciousness? |
| 09:35.26 | Bounty | Pretty sure none of us are |
| 09:35.32 | motive | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_information_theory#Integration_.28.CE.A6.29 |
| 09:35.37 | Bounty | I'm sure Jade could pull it off with big owrds |
| 09:35.39 | Bounty | words* |
| 09:35.46 | G0A | read some Turing, he had good ideas what is consciousness.... |
| 09:35.49 | Bounty | and convince us |
| 09:35.49 | motive | That formula was written by Giulio Tononi as an integration of different variables into a consciousness |
| 09:36.23 | Bounty | The problem is |
| 09:36.31 | Bounty | Don't we have different levels of "consciousness " |
| 09:36.39 | motive | Yup, and those are other variables in the formula. |
| 09:36.47 | Bounty | from something like us, compared to something like an ant |
| 09:36.47 | motive | For example, we might have a resolution to how much memory we can fit into our heads. |
| 09:36.57 | motive | That would restrict how "aware" we can be of the fact that we're aware. |
| 09:37.12 | motive | We don't have infinite space, and storing an infinite feedback loop requires that, so logically we must not be fully conscious. |
| 09:37.20 | motive | Thus, varying degrees of consciousness. |
| 09:37.23 | Bounty | But don't you think the answer could be more simple than we think? |
| 09:37.33 | motive | I think that answer is beautifully simple. |
| 09:37.49 | motive | It's simple because it means consciousness isn't a special case. |
| 09:37.51 | Bounty | I think my answer is either correct or at least close lol |
| 09:38.00 | motive | It's just a function of a feedback loop. |
| 09:38.07 | motive | It reduces everything down to mathematics. |
| 09:38.11 | motive | In our reality, that is. |
| 09:38.12 | Bounty | I mean, is energy alive? |
| 09:38.22 | G0A | motive why do you think that consciousness has Neumann architecture? |
| 09:39.10 | motive | I'm not sure, I just think that's an elegant answer. |
| 09:39.13 | motive | I'm not sure of anything I'm saying. |
| 09:39.13 | motive | Haha |
| 09:39.22 | G0A | hehe |
| 09:39.31 | motive | I'm sure to some degree I'm wrong, or I could specify an unbounded equation for consciousness and create a "God" equation. |
| 09:39.37 | motive | But then you have a problem with that, too... |
| 09:39.54 | motive | Consider a set that contains all known sets. As soon as you have that set, you know that set isn't a member of it's own set, so you have to add it into the set... repeat. |
| 09:40.08 | motive | So maybe that's why there's no God equation, or limitless consciousness. |
| 09:40.15 | motive | Maybe we can never be sure of what we are because of that. |
| 09:40.16 | motive | :) |
| 09:40.33 | Bounty | I personally think we can all admit there is something beyond death, just not what we think |
| 09:40.39 | Bounty | not life as we define it |
| 09:40.49 | Bounty | I mean, you're still dead by our standards |
| 09:40.52 | Bounty | but not |
| 09:40.57 | Bounty | make sense? lol |
| 09:41.03 | G0A | no it doesnt |
| 09:41.03 | motive | I think life and death are abstracted away by mathematics. :D |
| 09:41.05 | motive | Everything's just constant. |
| 09:41.06 | motive | Boom |
| 09:41.19 | motive | If everything's constant it means you never die, at least. |
| 09:41.22 | motive | Also means you never lived though... |
| 09:41.27 | motive | Kind of unfortunate. |
| 09:41.27 | Bounty | best way I can put it |
| 09:41.28 | G0A | only from instincts stand point it makes sense that you think there is life beyond death |
| 09:41.43 | Bounty | There is no "life" after death but there is something |
| 09:41.51 | Bounty | but you don't know because you're not alive |
| 09:41.54 | Bounty | does THAT make sense? |
| 09:41.55 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:41.57 | G0A | there is the information of your life |
| 09:42.05 | Ahli | yeah, you can't experience it, so it wouldn't matter |
| 09:42.09 | motive | G0A: What if the net sum of all information is 0? |
| 09:42.11 | G0A | which propagate though time |
| 09:42.18 | motive | The entropy of the universe could be 0 over time. |
| 09:42.41 | G0A | then I am right to be nihilistic. |
| 09:43.11 | Bounty | Just because you can't experience it does not make it awesome lol |
| 09:43.29 | JademusSreg | Interestingly, assuming the mathematical representability (and simulatability) of physical activity generally and the universe specifically, recursive nesting and mutual (even simultaneous) simulation of universes would occur. |
| 09:43.46 | Bounty | I personally have never had a 3 some with two beautiful asian twins Ahli |
| 09:43.53 | Bounty | Does not make it any less awesome |
| 09:44.35 | motive | JademusSreg: That's probably to some degree true. I think there are multiple parent universes spawned out of nothingness, which then have very different parameters behind them. Maybe this universe is dictated by the constants of math, and all the children of it are variations on that. |
| 09:44.40 | G0A | JademusSreg So we are in simulation by probability, you like that idea, dont you? |
| 09:44.52 | motive | Maybe in a universe beneath ours, Pi = 4 and they live in non-Euclidean space with a negative slope |
| 09:45.02 | motive | But the basic fundamentals of logic and math still work |
| 09:45.40 | Ahli | well, I don't think we consist out of more than the atoms that form us... we are just bioogical machines... if you separate all atoms in a computer, the computer can't know sh*t anymore, neither. So, if we die, we just stop working. No more electicity going through our CPU making the clock tick. |
| 09:45.52 | Ahli | *electricity |
| 09:46.02 | motive | The problem with thinking of the universe as a simulation is that you're still using time as a variable. |
| 09:46.08 | motive | If you remove time as a variable you're left with a constant again. |
| 09:46.14 | JademusSreg | I don't. =D |
| 09:46.21 | motive | It means all calculations must be done instantly as part of the answer to their question. |
| 09:46.25 | motive | It means there's no such thing as calculation. |
| 09:48.38 | JademusSreg | The model of a universe must be mathematical representation of those qualities which could to arbitrary "precision" compute a state of said universe. The math doesn't change; it's a complete description. |
| 09:48.49 | motive | Exactly, and time is one of those variables. |
| 09:49.00 | motive | So the answer to the "universe" formula is known for free. |
| 09:49.14 | motive | For every value of t, where t= the bounds of time. |
| 09:49.17 | JademusSreg | Need to think less procedural, more functional programming. =D |
| 09:49.31 | Bounty | There is no calculation, only Zual |
| 09:49.42 | motive | Zual? |
| 09:49.50 | Bounty | Ghostbusters? |
| 09:49.55 | Bounty | No? |
| 09:49.55 | motive | I need to rewatch Ghostbusters. |
| 09:49.58 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:49.59 | Ahli | Zool |
| 09:50.15 | Bounty | Wrong |
| 09:50.17 | Bounty | its Zuul |
| 09:50.21 | Bounty | googled that shit |
| 09:50.25 | Bounty | double wrong |
| 09:50.31 | Bounty | on mine and yours |
| 09:50.32 | Bounty | :) |
| 09:50.36 | motive | Regardless, I think we can all agree that whatever existence is, it's one hell of a strange thing. :) |
| 09:50.38 | Ahli | zool is a game with chupa chups adverts |
| 09:50.54 | Ahli | does that still exist? |
| 09:50.56 | Bounty | Its strange to us |
| 09:51.15 | Bounty | Ironically nobody ever really answered my question earlier |
| 09:51.20 | motive | What question? |
| 09:51.29 | Bounty | Are we alone in the UNIVERSE? |
| 09:51.30 | JademusSreg | Your machine performing the computation has state, as it must to calculate the sample state of the model universe, but the mathematical description itself is -functional-, cannot have state. |
| 09:51.42 | Bounty | Seriosuly lol |
| 09:51.46 | Bounty | Seriously* |
| 09:52.00 | motive | Bounty: prolly not |
| 09:52.09 | motive | But the universe expanded too fast so we'll be long dead before we ever meet |
| 09:52.10 | G0A | Bounty no I have friends that I am almost sure they exists |
| 09:52.10 | Bounty | just say no |
| 09:52.18 | DeadZergling | this is driving me crazy, this stupid ass weapon is not seeing all its effects, anyone know why, lol http://tny.cz/27546790 |
| 09:52.23 | G0A | so "we" arent alone |
| 09:52.27 | Bounty | man |
| 09:52.31 | Bounty | you sons a bitches |
| 09:52.35 | motive | JademusSreg: Why do we need a machine at all to compute though? |
| 09:52.38 | Bounty | dodging a yes or no question |
| 09:52.39 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:52.48 | Bounty | only in murica |
| 09:52.56 | JademusSreg | Not saying we do. Was clarifying what I meant by simulation. |
| 09:52.59 | motive | Ah |
| 09:53.13 | Bounty | Ok how about this |
| 09:53.18 | motive | Yeah. I mean it's possible. It would explain the planck length, planck time, etc. |
| 09:53.19 | JademusSreg | Not some cinematic, interactive, VR, Thirteenth Floor shit. =D |
| 09:53.26 | motive | If the universe has a resolution that implies it's bound by some kind of memory limitation. |
| 09:53.28 | motive | I wouldn't be surprised. |
| 09:53.31 | Bounty | Does anyone here think we have been or are being visited by Aliens? |
| 09:53.35 | DeadZergling | lol, Alex Jones endorses male enhancement drugs |
| 09:53.36 | Bounty | :) |
| 09:54.14 | G0A | Bounty question is when were we visited |
| 09:54.35 | Bounty | at anytime during our species existence |
| 09:54.37 | G0A | our civilization's time scale seems very small in this universe with limits like speed of light |
| 09:54.49 | Bounty | Yeah and I have a theory about that |
| 09:55.00 | Bounty | I think I've said this before |
| 09:55.08 | Bounty | Either Aliens are here now |
| 09:55.14 | motive | Small doesn't even begin to describe it, haha. We're like the space between an asymptote and where it's limited from going to. |
| 09:55.14 | Bounty | Or have been |
| 09:55.18 | Bounty | OR |
| 09:55.18 | motive | Mind-crushingly small. |
| 09:55.21 | Bounty | they never will be |
| 09:55.50 | Bounty | Placing a speed limit on the universe sounds like complete bullshit to mel ol |
| 09:56.29 | motive | Maybe placing a speed limit on the universe helps expand the range of values that it can be non-zero for. |
| 09:56.31 | Bounty | As if Light will pull you over, or most likely be in hot pursuit of you for all eternity |
| 09:56.53 | G0A | yeah our civilization life span is like a very rare supernova explosion which is very hard to detect, I dont think for its worth for aliens to observer it. |
| 09:57.18 | motive | Bounty: even more interesting, light doesn't experience time. |
| 09:57.21 | Bounty | I just think if highly intelligent life exists, they're here or they're not |
| 09:57.27 | G0A | speed limit is very logical limit to make the universe more diverse in life. |
| 09:57.54 | Bounty | The word limit is a very human thing though imo |
| 09:58.05 | Bounty | I don't think there are limits when you get to that scale |
| 09:58.09 | G0A | if somebody designed this universe, then my grats for that. |
| 09:58.21 | Bounty | really? its shit |
| 09:58.30 | motive | It's actually quite elegant. |
| 09:58.32 | Bounty | until Aliens reveal themselves, its shit to me lol |
| 09:58.47 | motive | It's very simple rules applied over massive periods that allow for increasingly complex systems to evolve. |
| 09:58.48 | Bounty | fucking 10 light years away from the nearest star |
| 09:58.49 | motive | That's life. |
| 09:58.57 | motive | That's genius, and yet it doesn't even need intelligence. |
| 09:59.02 | motive | That boggles me. |
| 09:59.06 | Bounty | how is that genius? |
| 09:59.12 | G0A | if there is no speed limit then in some millions year we will live on every planet in the universe |
| 09:59.21 | Bounty | I'm just talking about distance between life forms |
| 09:59.24 | motive | If we could explore everything there'd be no mystery to what we are. |
| 09:59.24 | Bounty | supposedly |
| 09:59.26 | Bounty | at least |
| 09:59.36 | Bounty | sooo |
| 09:59.36 | G0A | Bounty its 4-5 light year |
| 09:59.38 | Bounty | jesus? |
| 09:59.41 | Bounty | is it G0A? |
| 09:59.47 | Bounty | that still sucks |
| 09:59.49 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:59.49 | motive | If we did everything, knew everything, could experience everything, life would be the most boring existence imagineable. |
| 09:59.53 | Bounty | what star is it? |
| 09:59.56 | motive | Limits give us perspective. |
| 09:59.57 | Bounty | Centuri? |
| 10:00.07 | Bounty | I forget which star it is... |
| 10:00.08 | G0A | Bounty it sucks for out current life span |
| 10:00.11 | motive | Limits let us enjoy what we have and strive for what we don't. |
| 10:00.17 | Ahli | btw, what's outside the universe? can one travel there? |
| 10:00.22 | G0A | but in the future it might be totally excepted. |
| 10:00.23 | motive | Ahli: no |
| 10:00.33 | Bounty | motive no |
| 10:00.34 | Bounty | You don't know that |
| 10:00.35 | G0A | yes its Centure |
| 10:00.37 | motive | Sure we do |
| 10:00.37 | G0A | i* |
| 10:00.44 | motive | In order to move, you need to change your distance, or experience time. |
| 10:00.45 | Bounty | Don't even get me started on that shit |
| 10:00.57 | motive | Since distance and time are functions of spacetime, and spacetime doesn't exist outside our universe... |
| 10:00.58 | Bounty | jesus christ |
| 10:00.59 | Bounty | 5 AM |
| 10:01.01 | motive | you thusly cannot travel outside the universe, haha |
| 10:01.05 | Bounty | talking about what the end of the universe is |
| 10:01.08 | Bounty | lol |
| 10:01.18 | Bounty | how do you know though? |
| 10:01.23 | Bounty | You don't know 100% |
| 10:01.25 | Bounty | nobody does |
| 10:01.30 | Bounty | We could be wrong |
| 10:01.38 | G0A | Also if we move at speed of light, its perfect to explore... you wont age, only the universe will... |
| 10:01.49 | Bounty | Case and point, we have two types of physics lol |
| 10:01.59 | motive | G0A: You'd also cease to be conscious since time would stop for you |
| 10:02.00 | motive | so would distance |
| 10:02.26 | Bounty | and how do we know both of those things are not man made? |
| 10:02.33 | Bounty | time and distance |
| 10:02.43 | Bounty | we know time is bullshit, at leas I think it is |
| 10:02.55 | G0A | motive ofcourse you wouldnt travel at closest to speed of light cause that would need infinite energy.... |
| 10:03.22 | Bounty | You could do that G0A |
| 10:03.25 | G0A | Bounty yes they are man made |
| 10:03.38 | G0A | but still very good way of calculating macro world |
| 10:03.38 | motive | Time's just a variable. It'd be like trying to have a graph of y=x plotted on graph paper suddenly travel without x. |
| 10:03.51 | Bounty | I personally find it amusing that we can believe in the big bang but not infinite energy lol |
| 10:04.08 | Bounty | The universe is AMAZING, except for the energy part... |
| 10:04.09 | motive | Energy's just the flipside of matter. |
| 10:04.20 | motive | We have good reason to believe they just cancel out |
| 10:04.32 | Bounty | Like I said |
| 10:04.34 | JademusSreg | More interestingly, simulation as a sample of a model universe is not necessarily the same as creating a universe; if one sampled one's own simulated model universe one or more times, one does not expect that many separate universes to be created. Assuming creation and simulation are not the same, and that universes must exhibit self-describing internal consistency and representability/si |
| 10:04.36 | JademusSreg | mulatability, all possible self-describing internally consistent mathematical representations must exist, so all possible universes must exist. Haha |
| 10:04.41 | motive | Bounty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe |
| 10:04.42 | Bounty | I'm just being skeptical when I say this but |
| 10:04.50 | Bounty | the fact that there are two type of physics |
| 10:05.00 | Bounty | raises a whole lot of flags to me |
| 10:05.03 | motive | JademusSreg: That's where I was when this started, haha |
| 10:05.08 | motive | I completely agree. |
| 10:05.13 | G0A | Momentum and Information is all there is |
| 10:05.28 | JademusSreg | Ah, thought so, but your use of "idea" was unclear. |
| 10:05.33 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 10:05.47 | Bounty | FYI, JadeumusSreg is still here |
| 10:05.54 | Bounty | even though he said brb |
| 10:05.57 | Bounty | just letting you all know |
| 10:06.07 | Bounty | hes just typing his next thesis to deliver to us in about 15 minutes |
| 10:06.12 | Bounty | >.< |
| 10:06.20 | motive | JademusSreg: Yeah, it's a hard concept to articulate. I'm working on it. The use of "idea" literally means anything that can stand on it's own. It can be a mathematical formula, a universe, whatever have you. |
| 10:06.27 | motive | Bahaha |
| 10:06.52 | G0A | there are as much two type of physics as there is 2 type of programming (assembly and C like) |
| 10:06.57 | motive | ^ |
| 10:07.05 | Bounty | The whole zero energy universe concept makes no sense at all |
| 10:07.09 | motive | Sure it does. |
| 10:07.13 | Bounty | ok |
| 10:07.15 | motive | Think of it as a math problem, Bounty. |
| 10:07.16 | Bounty | big bang came from? |
| 10:07.18 | motive | 0 = 0 |
| 10:07.21 | motive | How can you make both sides non-zero? |
| 10:07.24 | Bounty | big bang came from 0? |
| 10:07.31 | Bounty | and is expanding into 0 |
| 10:07.32 | motive | Yes |
| 10:07.38 | Bounty | right? |
| 10:07.43 | motive | 0 is the same thing as infinity, basically, as long as both sides are equal. |
| 10:07.51 | Bounty | ok |
| 10:07.55 | Bounty | so |
| 10:07.55 | motive | If everything in our universe cancels out, then the net sum of everything is 0. |
| 10:07.58 | motive | You can get 0 for free. |
| 10:08.02 | motive | Read Stephen Hawking's thoughts on it. |
| 10:08.11 | Bounty | zero energy universe means infinite neergy universe |
| 10:08.15 | Bounty | energy* |
| 10:08.22 | motive | Not necessarily. |
| 10:08.22 | Bounty | if 0 = infinity |
| 10:08.28 | motive | -5 + 5 = 0 |
| 10:08.28 | Bounty | god damnit |
| 10:08.32 | Bounty | lol |
| 10:08.39 | motive | -inf + inf = 0 |
| 10:08.43 | motive | They both work, one's infinite, one's not. |
| 10:08.48 | motive | Either way answer is still zero. |
| 10:08.55 | motive | Our universe just becomes the left side. |
| 10:09.03 | motive | -matter + (+energy) = 0 |
| 10:09.14 | Bounty | so we're to believe the big bang happened and is expanding perfectly balanced |
| 10:09.20 | motive | We have no reason to believe it's not. |
| 10:09.33 | Bounty | Do we have reason to believe it is? |
| 10:09.36 | motive | Conservation of Energy, yes. |
| 10:09.51 | motive | If convervation of energy is ever proved false, then blow what I said out of the window. |
| 10:09.51 | Bounty | Call me crazy but |
| 10:09.58 | motive | But we never lose matter or energy, it just changes forms. |
| 10:10.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (~scraft@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:10.15 | motive | Consider having nothing, Bounty. 0. |
| 10:10.17 | Bounty | If you think the universe came from the big bang (which is basically nothing) and created all this.... |
| 10:10.19 | motive | How do we add matter? We remove energy. |
| 10:10.23 | motive | We'll add 5 matters. |
| 10:10.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 10:10.29 | motive | 5 - 5 = 0 |
| 10:10.33 | Bounty | Yeah but heres the thing |
| 10:10.40 | motive | Positive 5 = matter, negative 5 = energy, its still balanced |
| 10:10.41 | Bounty | Isn't what you're saying human? |
| 10:10.53 | motive | Humans didn't invent math, we discovered it. |
| 10:10.55 | Bounty | its a "balance" |
| 10:11.11 | motive | If we weren't around, the ratio between a circle's circumference and radius may not be named Pi, but Pi as a ratio would still exist. |
| 10:11.17 | motive | And thus math transcends us. |
| 10:11.27 | Bounty | Like I said earlier |
| 10:11.34 | Bounty | why the hell do we have two types of physics lol |
| 10:11.41 | motive | We don't, we just don't know how to unify them. |
| 10:11.42 | Bounty | based on scale |
| 10:11.54 | motive | Somewhere is an equation that explains the inconsistencies in both. |
| 10:11.54 | Bounty | what? |
| 10:12.04 | motive | Hence: the theory of everything |
| 10:12.06 | Bounty | Physics breaks at the Quantum level |
| 10:12.11 | Bounty | So... |
| 10:12.12 | motive | No, it just becomes a different set of physics. |
| 10:12.15 | Bounty | its not about unifying at that point lol |
| 10:12.17 | motive | Quantum mechanics is still physics. |
| 10:12.19 | Bounty | aka breaking |
| 10:12.39 | G0A | its not different and its not breaking |
| 10:12.47 | Bounty | Yeah because we put the word physics in it |
| 10:12.53 | Zolden | what are you talking about |
| 10:12.54 | motive | Classical physics is used by humans to describe the macroscopic world, QM is used to describe the microscopic world. We suspect there is a larger mathematics that can unify both. |
| 10:13.05 | Bounty | Its a god damn conspiracy |
| 10:13.07 | G0A | its just everyday macro physics are very well working estimations |
| 10:13.11 | Bounty | The Masons put it in out text books |
| 10:13.18 | motive | brb |
| 10:13.20 | Bounty | So they can carry out the New World order |
| 10:13.22 | Bounty | lol |
| 10:13.37 | G0A | lol |
| 10:13.51 | G0A | Stewox infected you:) |
| 10:13.58 | Bounty | Nah |
| 10:14.03 | Bounty | I used to be into that shit in HS |
| 10:14.10 | Bounty | not as big as him |
| 10:14.11 | Bounty | but I get it lol |
| 10:14.36 | Bounty | chemtrails bro |
| 10:14.40 | Bounty | or w/e it was |
| 10:15.13 | Bounty | Ironically, the "trails" left from planes are contributing to climate change |
| 10:15.21 | G0A | yeah all the airplanes are poisoning us with chemtrails and making us stupid, but there is no man made global warming |
| 10:15.32 | Bounty | There is |
| 10:15.37 | G0A | these conspiracies always make perfect sense |
| 10:15.45 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 10:15.51 | Bounty | the clouds left behind planes are poison |
| 10:15.55 | Bounty | which they are |
| 10:16.04 | Bounty | in the sense that they are contributing to climate change |
| 10:16.05 | Bounty | lol |
| 10:16.09 | G0A | yeah |
| 10:16.17 | Bounty | which you know... |
| 10:16.17 | Zolden | talk about ufos too pls |
| 10:16.22 | Bounty | chemtrails are fine |
| 10:16.28 | Bounty | but if you say its climate change |
| 10:16.30 | Bounty | you're a nut job |
| 10:16.41 | G0A | yeah, that what I was pointing ou |
| 10:16.43 | G0A | t |
| 10:16.44 | JademusSreg | looks forward to the headline: "Privacy advocate condemn GNSA universe simulation surveillance" |
| 10:16.51 | Bounty | what about UFOs Zolden? |
| 10:17.01 | Zolden | Bounty anything you think is important |
| 10:17.04 | Bounty | They're real, obviously lol |
| 10:17.08 | G0A | :) |
| 10:17.12 | Zolden | yea, more |
| 10:17.25 | Bounty | http://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs |
| 10:17.29 | Bounty | I have that shit bookmarked |
| 10:17.35 | Bounty | lol |
| 10:17.50 | JademusSreg | Anyway, conveniently ties back into Parish. |
| 10:18.32 | Bounty | The only conspiracies I believe in are JFK, Banks and Aliens lol |
| 10:18.40 | Bounty | outside of that... meh |
| 10:19.23 | JademusSreg | If you've read the IRC excerpts linked previously, this will explain the relationship between the enemies and the player characters. |
| 10:19.37 | JademusSreg | ( https://pastee.org/cbj3r ) |
| 10:19.45 | Bounty | That shit is way to long JAde |
| 10:19.51 | Bounty | its almost 5:30 AM |
| 10:20.05 | JademusSreg | Tell your language processing center to toughen the fuck up. |
| 10:20.13 | Bounty | You know its been a long night when you went from drunk to sober while awake |
| 10:20.24 | Bounty | >.< |
| 10:21.19 | Bounty | I'm going to bed, this is madness |
| 10:21.37 | Bounty | Enjoyed the conversation |
| 10:21.40 | Bounty | Night all |
| 10:21.47 | JademusSreg | In the same way a wave may interfere with itself, many of the enemies are the parallel instances of the player characters. |
| 10:24.55 | A1win | you should not interfere with parallel instances of yourself, the space-time continuum is at stake |
| 10:25.11 | A1win | *participates in conversation* |
| 10:26.44 | JademusSreg | Both are explorations of all possible states. Imagine an individual as such a wave expanding out through an extradimensional space, exploring all possible outcomes simultaneously. Imagine this individual sent down through a horrifying interferometer, interacting with its other possible selves in a surreal double-slit experiment. =D |
| 10:27.32 | motive | I feel sorry for the one version of someone that has to go through that if all possible ideas are true. |
| 10:30.34 | JademusSreg | Parish uses this as its premise; these strangers are trapped inside of town that warps itself to prevent their escape, and encounter these morbidly deformed and corrupt versions of themselves, completely unaware they are killing their parallel instances, and that the baleful demons that hunt them are the product of the darkest deeds they will commit in this place. |
| 10:32.49 | motive | Holy shit |
| 10:33.03 | motive | That's some good writing. |
| 10:33.46 | JademusSreg | That's why I'm coding some village generation shit. =D |
| 10:34.47 | JademusSreg | Dunno if you've read the paste, so I'm not sure what references I can make without repeating myself. |
| 10:53.31 | DeadZergling | well I'm just happy to have some noob noob monsters going, lol |
| 11:00.45 | DeadZergling | guess I'll add trees/rocks they can kill next |
| 11:00.59 | DeadZergling | tommorrow anyways, just be too funny to gain experience by killing rock |
| 11:01.37 | DeadZergling | your village generating yet JademusSreg, or are you a ways off? |
| 11:03.10 | Zolden | kingTD look: if a drone kills a creep, owner of drone recieve a bounty, and if main building kills a creep, enemy recieves a bounty. WHat do you think about it? |
| 11:04.03 | Zolden | I wanted to stimulate players to up defences |
| 11:04.34 | kingTD | decent idea but upgrading defences is shit |
| 11:04.41 | kingTD | since they dont scale withe the waves |
| 11:05.00 | kingTD | 20+ wave and ur fully upped defence is shit |
| 11:05.12 | kingTD | maybe even earlier it do shit |
| 11:05.20 | Zolden | full upped isn't |
| 11:05.25 | JademusSreg | Mental design phase, and also adapting code from other programming languages to save time. |
| 11:05.25 | Zolden | it just rapes badly |
| 11:05.27 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 11:05.29 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 11:06.26 | kingTD | then u spending money on defences that could be spent on towers |
| 11:06.32 | kingTD | nope fuck it |
| 11:06.42 | kingTD | if i will lose cause i was greedy to get better towers |
| 11:06.48 | kingTD | fine with it |
| 11:06.59 | Zolden | i see |
| 11:07.17 | kingTD | than upgrading the shit defencive unit that do almost same dmg as crusader |
| 11:07.31 | Zolden | so you agree with more reward for upping it, you just want reward + more effective upgrades |
| 11:08.38 | kingTD | well if upgrading those fuckers wouldnt cost bunch of money |
| 11:08.45 | kingTD | res |
| 11:08.53 | kingTD | since u dont get income for killing them |
| 11:09.00 | kingTD | but u at least survive |
| 11:09.08 | Zolden | to get income from them i need to use unit dies event |
| 11:09.17 | Zolden | and i don't like events that happen frequently |
| 11:09.29 | Zolden | low lag is the main priority |
| 11:10.39 | Zolden | but will applying a behavior with fatal damage responce -> dummy effect be faster and will return the caster? |
| 11:11.34 | Zolden | Kueken if caster applies behavior on target, and that behavior executes an effect, will "caster" keep the caster? |
| 11:11.57 | Kueken | yes, usually |
| 11:12.02 | Zolden | good |
| 11:12.16 | DeadZergling | Later all, glad to get anything done tonight as sick I was |
| 11:12.17 | Zolden | Kueken btw, wanna try my little map? |
| 11:12.20 | Kueken | "source" will be the unit with the behavior and "caster" the unit that applied it |
| 11:12.29 | Zolden | Kueken yea, good |
| 11:12.36 | Kueken | nah, not now |
| 11:12.39 | DeadZergling | don't ruin your map too much more Zolden :) |
| 11:12.39 | Kueken | later maybe |
| 11:12.40 | Zolden | DeadZergling bye |
| 11:12.48 | Zolden | i won't, i swear |
| 11:13.40 | Zolden | Kueken ok, tell me when you're ready |
| 11:13.53 | Zolden | or I'll cost pig penis storm on your country |
| 11:14.20 | Zolden | pig penises will cower the lands, children will play with it, build fortresses |
| 11:14.29 | JademusSreg | Awesome. |
| 11:14.51 | Kueken | I expect 100% custom models, if I spot a single default model, I'll have to club you to death |
| 11:14.55 | Kueken | with my penis |
| 11:15.08 | Zolden | hides marine model |
| 11:15.13 | JademusSreg | Best way to do that: no dependencies. |
| 11:15.31 | Zolden | no dependencies -> no units to copy |
| 11:16.01 | Zolden | which is like a keyboard without enter key |
| 11:17.01 | JademusSreg | No wai, just add entries without copy. |
| 11:18.12 | Zolden | saying it to me is like saying to a jew to give money |
| 11:18.25 | Kueken | setting up actors without copying is a pain in the ass |
| 11:18.36 | JademusSreg | Hm, nope. |
| 11:18.42 | Kueken | especially putting in all those sound links manually |
| 11:19.54 | JademusSreg | Proper use of inheritence, tokens, and adding new entries (including model and sound) makes it pretty smooth. |
| 11:21.44 | Zolden | copying actors is a kind of inheritance |
| 11:22.00 | JademusSreg | Yes, the opposite kind. |
| 11:23.21 | Zolden | black is opposite to white, but black people are still humans |
| 11:24.14 | JademusSreg | I'm not aware of such monochrome persons. |
| 11:24.46 | Zolden | you can see them in old movies |
| 11:26.00 | JademusSreg | Not quite solid white or black, though. |
| 11:29.35 | Zolden | just have to be realy old, from the times when contrast was high enough |
| 11:31.09 | Zolden | contrast is slowly going down during the years, some say it's global decontrasting, some look deeper and say it's contrast inflation, and universe will die in a complete decontrast death |
| 11:33.09 | JademusSreg | Ah, so if one deliberately increases contrast to exaggerate apparent differences, then people appear black or white. Got it/ |
| 11:36.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster maltenp (~maltenp@c-31e170d5.09-37-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 11:36.53 | JademusSreg | wonders if unbracketed for loops are supported. |
| 11:39.50 | Zolden | if someone deliberately increases contrast, then copying actors look evil and opposite to inheritance |
| 11:46.20 | Zolden | JademusSreg check, I improved cutscene component, and now each builder pick showes its units in an environment http://i.snag.gy/mbk1d.jpg |
| 11:49.27 | JademusSreg | Adorable. |
| 11:49.58 | JademusSreg | bbl |
| 12:07.32 | G0A | Zolden how about showing some information about the units at the units? |
| 12:08.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.127.201) |
| 12:16.02 | Zolden | G0A text is a noise, I want clean minimalistic image |
| 12:25.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Hati-Laptop (~Hati@nat-sh-2.fh-trier.de) |
| 12:27.01 | G0A | k, than use better dialog items than those generic ones |
| 12:27.46 | Zolden | yea, maybe will add something visual |
| 12:30.38 | G0A | Also, add more boobs |
| 12:33.06 | Zolden | will map be banned for boobs? |
| 12:33.47 | Zolden | snow queen has boobs, and I could expose it |
| 12:34.26 | Zolden | also, kerrigan on bnet background is simply naked, just costume textures instead of skin texture |
| 12:53.52 | JademusSreg | Pazoom. |
| 13:09.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-123-172-1.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 13:10.20 | G0A | Zolden boobs in cloth are better than no boobs at all |
| 13:20.53 | G0A | So will blizz release 2.1 as xmas present? |
| 13:21.26 | Zolden | little cat getting bigger and stroger, more blood on fingers after playin with it |
| 13:21.38 | JademusSreg | Anticipation of the thing is invariably more intense its apprehension. Just as an unknown enemy is vastly more threatening, the tension at the cusp of sexuality exceed its gratification. |
| 13:21.42 | Zolden | G0A no, they are evil again |
| 13:22.11 | JademusSreg | *intense than its |
| 13:22.17 | Zolden | JademusSreg is it about 2.1 or boobs? |
| 13:22.43 | JademusSreg | Applies to all the things. But in this particular case, the latter. |
| 13:24.54 | G0A | is there a way to reset all ability cooldowns of a unit, even though I dont know what abilities the unit has? |
| 13:25.11 | JademusSreg | checks. |
| 13:25.38 | Zolden | mates |
| 13:25.48 | JademusSreg | Sexy. |
| 13:25.58 | JademusSreg | Goa, yes. |
| 13:26.16 | JademusSreg | Do you want a description or a script example? |
| 13:27.22 | G0A | any of it will do |
| 13:28.31 | G0A | though I thought there is a simple function for it |
| 13:28.38 | JademusSreg | For each index of unit ability array, get ability type, set cooldown = -get cooldown |
| 13:31.10 | JademusSreg | Oh, I should mention that the scope is important, so it gets a bit more complex, whereby you'd need to perform a catalog lookup of the cooldown location, if-else/switch block to call different functions for the cooldown get/set, and a catalog lookup to get the cooldown key. |
| 13:33.54 | Zolden | what consumes less perfomance, checking unit's type or owner? |
| 13:35.00 | JademusSreg | The latter, one would assume if there is any whatsoever. |
| 13:35.06 | JademusSreg | But it's easy to test. |
| 13:35.36 | JademusSreg | Simply call the function about 100k times, look at the debugger. |
| 13:36.06 | G0A | JademusSreg so there are no simple function for it:( |
| 13:36.11 | JademusSreg | If 100k is too low, call it a solid million. |
| 13:36.24 | Zolden | lazy and i believe your intuitive estimation |
| 13:36.24 | JademusSreg | Goa, want a script example? =D |
| 13:36.33 | Zolden | he wants boobs example |
| 13:37.08 | Zolden | i'd actuallly check the example to know how to access unit's abils list |
| 13:38.23 | G0A | JademusSreg no need, I will do it on my own |
| 13:38.29 | JademusSreg | Too bad! |
| 13:38.49 | G0A | dont spoil my suffering! |
| 13:39.20 | JademusSreg | Just another utility script, trivial. =D |
| 13:40.45 | JademusSreg | Hm, now if I can only recall if the ability array is 1 or 0 indexed. |
| 13:41.28 | Ahli | 0? |
| 13:41.45 | JademusSreg | Certain? |
| 13:41.49 | Ahli | which array starts with the index 1? :X |
| 13:42.10 | JademusSreg | unitgroup, playergroup, among others. |
| 13:42.46 | Ahli | those are lists and not arrays |
| 13:43.35 | JademusSreg | provides a blank, dry expression. |
| 13:43.39 | Ahli | in data, everything starts with 0... at least that's what I encountered |
| 13:44.06 | JademusSreg | aka =\ |
| 13:46.12 | JademusSreg | Ya know I tend to use array when refering to any indexed data structure. =D |
| 13:53.14 | JademusSreg | Oh, there may be an easier way, neat. |
| 13:53.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (~proprieta@111.58.120.125) |
| 13:53.54 | Zolden | kingTD waht are you doing there? must be something smart and useful |
| 13:55.37 | JademusSreg | Yes, far more efficient than a catalog lookup. |
| 14:04.28 | G0A | Yay my new survival game is finished |
| 14:04.34 | G0A | I just need to make the terrain |
| 14:04.38 | G0A | :) |
| 14:05.53 | Zolden | my new game is finished too, I just need to create its map file and add models, data, triggers and terrain |
| 14:07.49 | G0A | you see my problem:) |
| 14:08.59 | G0A | which hots terrain set is nice for game where everybody plays in separate areas limited by cliffs? |
| 14:09.32 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/uvnps |
| 14:10.14 | JademusSreg | If unconcerned about throwing null parameter errors, the if blocks can be removed. |
| 14:10.50 | JademusSreg | Cliffs? Zerus has good cliffs, or rather cliff facades. |
| 14:13.19 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/3253s (Repaste. Should be good for a year.) |
| 14:23.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 14:25.16 | Zolden | cool christianity: "jesus is your divine bro" |
| 14:25.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin|Work (~Dustin@12.250.116.50) |
| 14:26.43 | G0A | thx JademusSreg |
| 14:26.53 | JademusSreg | No problem. Useful? |
| 14:27.00 | Dustin|Work | Morning gentlemen |
| 14:27.03 | G0A | didnt test it yet |
| 14:27.06 | JademusSreg | Hallo Dustin. |
| 14:27.08 | G0A | hello |
| 14:28.32 | JademusSreg | ports Voronoi diagram code from C to galaxy. |
| 14:29.11 | Zolden | "voronoi" sounds russianish |
| 14:31.09 | JademusSreg | Would be so much faster to test if I could push shit to render. =\ |
| 14:31.10 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 14:34.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-d9baf197.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:52.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-141.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 15:39.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster BarackObamaEVIL (6576175b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.118.23.91) |
| 15:40.11 | BarackObamaEVIL | barcak obama is responsible for sc2 being bad |
| 15:40.14 | BarackObamaEVIL | he has endorsed all out capitalism |
| 15:40.53 | G0A | Zolden your country just bought Ukraine :) |
| 15:43.48 | BarackObamaEVIL | Why are you all capitalist zombies? |
| 15:43.52 | Zolden | G0A it's gay |
| 15:44.06 | BarackObamaEVIL | Watch the Alex Jones show, everyone. |
| 15:44.22 | Dustin|Work | lol |
| 15:44.30 | Zolden | how will europe answer? |
| 15:44.37 | Zolden | remove visas? |
| 15:47.26 | JademusSreg | Grr. Gee goddamn gosh, porting this C code would be more convenient if they hadn't removed the fucking cuntastical pointers. |
| 15:47.28 | BarackObamaEVIL | rusia is tyrant nationj |
| 15:47.29 | BarackObamaEVIL | putin is evil |
| 15:48.54 | Zolden | russia is ok, but its govermental traditions are tyranical |
| 15:49.17 | BarackObamaEVIL | how |
| 15:49.20 | BarackObamaEVIL | explain how it isnt evil now |
| 15:49.33 | BarackObamaEVIL | the soviet union kill more then hitler but it is still very bad |
| 15:49.44 | G0A | all governments ruled by the alien overlords, you should know that |
| 15:50.12 | Zolden | there people 2 kinds of ppl, stupid slaves and smart progressive fuckers, the first part is bigger, and they keep electing tyrans |
| 15:51.06 | Kueken | <- stupid progressive fucker |
| 15:51.08 | G0A | there are 2 kind of people, one that thinks there are 2 kind of people and the others. |
| 15:53.37 | BarackObamaEVIL | goa... why are you being ad hominem |
| 15:56.20 | Kueken | hm... |
| 15:57.25 | Kueken | coming from your nickname, thats some serious irony |
| 15:58.19 | G0A | we all know what is his real nick |
| 15:59.16 | Dustin|Work | ya stop being ad homo |
| 16:03.11 | JademusSreg | http://youtu.be/32K0nq0u0f0 |
| 16:03.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken1 (~Kueken@brsg-4dbbd2bf.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:07.03 | kingTD | hmmm |
| 16:07.06 | kingTD | not really |
| 16:07.17 | kingTD | reply to zoldens message 2 h ago |
| 16:19.19 | Zolden | kingTD strange, i was sure u're doung something extremely useful |
| 16:19.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@HSI-KBW-149-172-117-81.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:24.37 | G0A | I have a unit with negative health regen, I want to prevent its death, but I still want to see its life go down to 1 or zero. Any ideas how? (I tried behavior damage response fatal, but it didnt detect this kind of health loss) |
| 16:25.17 | Zolden | yea |
| 16:25.42 | Zolden | so, under 2 hp you need to use damage instead of negative health regen |
| 16:37.42 | JademusSreg | Goa, validator. =D |
| 16:46.35 | A1win | behavior applies negative health regen, validator disables behavior |
| 17:06.00 | G0A | is there a trigger function which makes unit uncloacked? |
| 17:08.27 | Kueken | apply a suppress cloak behavior |
| 17:08.36 | G0A | yeah |
| 17:08.54 | G0A | but I am lazy, thought there might be function for it |
| 17:09.05 | Kueken | there might be |
| 17:09.10 | Kueken | but w/e |
| 17:17.48 | G0A | hmm since google implemented the new comment system on youtube, I see much more retarded comments. |
| 17:18.08 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 17:18.16 | G0A | dont know how did they make that |
| 17:18.53 | JademusSreg | Figured all youtube comments were worthless, stopped reading them long ago. |
| 17:19.22 | Ahli | smart people don't want a google plus account... so they can't comment. |
| 17:19.40 | Ahli | or they already have one and just don't comment on youtube comments because youtube comments |
| 17:20.08 | JademusSreg | Oh, I have one, but like all social media accounts, I do fuck all with it. =D |
| 17:20.08 | Ahli | anyway, twitch chat is the worst that I've experienced so far :D |
| 17:22.36 | Ahli | I can't figure out how to receive a link to a tweet: https://twitter.com/BlizzHeroes they do an q&a livestream in under 2h |
| 17:23.53 | JademusSreg | Obvious value in viewer stats, but don't see value in words from random anonymous cranio-rectal conjugators. |
| 17:24.00 | Ahli | test document loaded an interface again... duh! |
| 17:24.18 | Ahli | ok, now in farmer's English |
| 17:24.35 | Ahli | it still loaded it after restarting :X |
| 17:24.54 | Ahli | interfaces killing workflow |
| 17:26.20 | JademusSreg | "cranio-" relates to the skull, "rectal" relates to the rectum (poopassbutt), "conjugate" means to conjoin, or "become temporarily united in order to exchange genetic material" in biological contexts. |
| 17:27.17 | Ahli | oh ok |
| 17:27.32 | Zolden | og od |
| 17:27.33 | Ahli | o0 |
| 17:27.38 | Zolden | 01 |
| 17:28.07 | Ahli | please upgrade to the blablablabla |
| 17:28.32 | Ahli | testing stuff in the editor has ridiculous problems :X |
| 17:28.59 | Ahli | now please, don't load an interface as nothign is set |
| 17:29.27 | JademusSreg | Looking forward to all the informative responses to completely idiotic questions. |
| 17:30.00 | Ahli | maybe the game is bullying me because I'm editing my 2.1 PTR version with 2.0.11's editor and test it in it |
| 17:30.15 | JademusSreg | Yeah, don't do that. |
| 17:30.29 | Ahli | it didn't complain |
| 17:30.39 | JademusSreg | I tried it and it destroyed shit without a single warning. =D |
| 17:30.46 | Ahli | ok now it works... |
| 17:30.56 | Ahli | I already saved :D |
| 17:31.06 | JademusSreg | The map still worked, but the data lost had to be repaired manually. |
| 17:33.40 | Ahli | what was lost? |
| 17:34.25 | JademusSreg | Fortunately for me, only some game strings. |
| 17:34.28 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 18:55.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (~scraft@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:57.35 | Dustin|Work | Ugh, work |
| 18:57.48 | Dustin|Work | Only 4 more hours =/ |
| 18:58.58 | Zolden | no, Dustin |
| 18:59.03 | Zolden | it's the whole life |
| 18:59.10 | Zolden | only the whole life left |
| 18:59.41 | Dustin|Work | Better go kill myself then :( |
| 19:00.46 | Zolden | yea, kill all Dustin |
| 19:00.51 | Zolden | and create the new one instead |
| 19:01.07 | Zolden | the one who lives the life he likes to live |
| 19:02.33 | Dustin|Work | I'd like to win the lottery and spend all day making cool things |
| 19:02.33 | Dustin|Work | :D |
| 19:02.45 | Ahli | http://www.twitch.tv/blizzheroes starting now |
| 19:02.59 | Zolden | Dustin|Home go do it then! |
| 19:03.08 | Zolden | Ahli what is this supposed to be? |
| 19:06.06 | Ahli | heroes q&a |
| 19:06.38 | G0A | currently talking about how awesome are they.... |
| 19:07.13 | Zolden | who are talking? the developers? |
| 19:08.43 | G0A | crap twitch lags like hell |
| 19:08.51 | Dustin|Work | Wish I could watch it |
| 19:09.03 | Zolden | it may need some time to start working well |
| 19:09.51 | Dustin|Work | woot just gonna listen on my phone |
| 19:10.27 | Dustin|Work | Aaand it stops when I turn my screen off, cool lol |
| 19:13.13 | Ahli | cloaken is the moderator, browder talks about the game, gonzales talks about art and stuff |
| 19:13.48 | Dustin|Work | Good deal, so far its just rehashing what weas said already |
| 19:13.53 | Dustin|Work | Hope they talk about new stuff |
| 19:16.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:16.34 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 19:18.18 | JademusSreg | Sproink. |
| 19:19.09 | ArcanePariah | Decided on the implementation of the village generation? |
| 19:19.45 | JademusSreg | Yepish. I've been porting some Voronoi C code over to galaxy. |
| 19:20.13 | ArcanePariah | I assume it has be tweaked since Galaxy precludes any recursive implementations? |
| 19:21.10 | JademusSreg | Naw, recursion in galaxy is entirely doable (provided you monitor it so one doesn't overflow the callstack). |
| 19:21.31 | JademusSreg | But I'm not employing recursion, at least not with the current approach. |
| 19:23.03 | JademusSreg | Very much want to avoid it, since it's error prone and galaxy lacks exception handling. |
| 19:23.30 | ArcanePariah | True, recursion is possible, but since you can not pass arrays (or does arrayref let you do that?), many recursive algorithims (such as quick sort) are not feasible. Then again, mathematically, all recursive algorithms can be rewritten into a linear form (go discrete math, actually learned something in that XD ) |
| 19:24.09 | JademusSreg | Mostly I'm wrestling with how best to replace the code's pointer usage without ruining the interface I have in mind. |
| 19:24.31 | JademusSreg | Yeah, arrayref permits passing arrays. Don't remember my vector ops script? |
| 19:24.35 | ArcanePariah | I only inquire about the recursion because I thought one of voronoi generation algos was recursive, appears it is not (The Fortune algo) |
| 19:24.50 | ArcanePariah | I do remember it, however I did not quite grasp what it did |
| 19:25.22 | JademusSreg | Use arrayref and funcref to perform ops on vector constructs. |
| 19:26.52 | ArcanePariah | And what exactly are vector constructs? The only straight answer I have ever seen is that vectors are simply dynamic arrays (partly attributed to the first serious language I was exposed to was Java, which just has an Array object for dynamic size arrays) |
| 19:27.22 | JademusSreg | Accepts a fairly generic function signature, performs the op for each index of the two inputs and returns through its result argument. |
| 19:27.27 | Ahli | ./dance in Heroes confirmed |
| 19:27.39 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 19:27.43 | JademusSreg | Ah, no, no. |
| 19:28.11 | ArcanePariah | Ofc Dance would be in, its in the editor, just no one uses it much |
| 19:28.15 | JademusSreg | You're familiar with scalars, vectors, and matrices in math, yeah? |
| 19:28.26 | ArcanePariah | and many models don't have a danace animation |
| 19:29.00 | ArcanePariah | Yes, a Scaler is a single element, a vector is 1 dimesnional set of scalers, matrix is 2+ dimensional set of scalers |
| 19:29.30 | ArcanePariah | or more accurately, a matrix is a n dimensional set of vectors |
| 19:29.34 | ArcanePariah | an n* |
| 19:29.47 | JademusSreg | My technical correction was intercepted, well done. |
| 19:29.59 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 19:30.45 | ArcanePariah | Most math only does 2 dimensional matricies, but really its N possible dimensions, just the math becomes painful fast, and quite cost prohibitve for a computer to implement |
| 19:31.18 | ArcanePariah | One in theory can model any system as a matrix with each variable being another dimension |
| 19:31.44 | ArcanePariah | Usually the problem with such attempts is many variables are indeterminiate or not enumerated |
| 19:31.52 | ArcanePariah | See weather modeling for example |
| 19:32.18 | JademusSreg | Anyway, yeah. So in galaxy, you've got scalar primitives, many-many-many structures represented by native types, and some native type vectors (point type is a Vec4), but they are all pretty much shit for doing anything more than rudimentary arithmetic. |
| 19:32.34 | JademusSreg | (And sub-rudimentary geometry.) |
| 19:32.56 | JademusSreg | (*geometry/trigonometry) |
| 19:33.48 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, from the GUI, the game only supports 4th order matricies |
| 19:34.23 | JademusSreg | One can do more than basic math using the native API and no specialized constructs, but it is a nightmare. |
| 19:34.26 | JademusSreg | brbi5 |
| 19:35.51 | ArcanePariah | On a smewhat unrelated topic, someone is goign to get very very rich this new years, lottery is hitting record highs |
| 19:39.23 | Zolden | Ahli G0A waht are they talking about? anything editor related said? |
| 19:40.02 | ArcanePariah | Is there some youtube vid or live stream of Heroes info? |
| 19:40.51 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 19:40.58 | ArcanePariah | Oh I see, a twitch stream |
| 19:42.12 | Dustin|Work | Ya ArcanePariah |
| 19:42.16 | Dustin|Work | I've been listening to it |
| 19:42.19 | Ahli | no |
| 19:42.20 | JademusSreg | Nearly over, may as well read what they post on bnet. |
| 19:42.26 | Dustin|Work | They haven't said anything new |
| 19:44.02 | JademusSreg | distracted by twitch chat; opens source and deletes div column. |
| 19:44.14 | ArcanePariah | ahahah |
| 19:45.13 | Zolden | lol |
| 19:46.14 | JademusSreg | Anyway, basically, native types and constructs suck at enmathening the gameological mechanicisms and shit. |
| 19:46.32 | ArcanePariah | O sweet |
| 19:46.42 | ArcanePariah | They adding more physics reactions to doodads |
| 19:46.56 | ArcanePariah | I hope that shit gets ported |
| 19:47.07 | JademusSreg | It certainly will, one way or another. |
| 19:47.17 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, since it is based on the editor stuff |
| 19:48.03 | JademusSreg | Only thing that would impede, but not at all prevent, ripping them would be if their herostorm fork has radically different shaders and/or model format. |
| 19:48.05 | ArcanePariah | I've thought about doing some of that, but it is so.... powerful but time consuming since you can create a reaction for every death kind, and based on how it dies (overkill or not) |
| 19:48.19 | ArcanePariah | Well, the physics stuff is not related to the model |
| 19:48.28 | JademusSreg | Sure is. |
| 19:48.31 | ArcanePariah | It is purely actor |
| 19:48.44 | JademusSreg | The physics bodies are defined in the model asset. |
| 19:49.11 | ArcanePariah | Oh? I thought the physics impact and ragdoll stuff was all actor |
| 19:49.15 | JademusSreg | Swarm added new versions of standard unit models just to add physics bodies. |
| 19:49.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:16c0:e8e:f66d:4ff:fe93:2e29) |
| 19:49.26 | JademusSreg | They are controlled by the actors, yep. |
| 19:49.35 | JademusSreg | But it must be supported in the asset. |
| 19:49.38 | ArcanePariah | Like all the force actors are needed for that |
| 19:49.55 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so the model needs the ragdoll model in order to handle physics reactions? |
| 19:50.23 | JademusSreg | Ragdoll shit or, as WoL had, hardbodies. |
| 19:50.48 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so the model needs fixed points to calculate interactions instead of treated the model as a singular block object |
| 19:50.53 | ArcanePariah | Makes sense |
| 19:50.56 | JademusSreg | Many destructible doodads and some unit models have simple physics hardbodies defined in the model assets. |
| 19:51.32 | JademusSreg | Which one can see in the cinematic loadforever-o-tron, with physics body rendering enabled. |
| 19:52.25 | JademusSreg | The Havok engine has supported both ragdolls and hardbodies from the start, iirc, but WoL only made use of the latter. |
| 19:53.30 | ArcanePariah | I assume that basically, since SC2 was a brand new engine, the developers (both engine devs, and those who use the editor) are still learning, or are limited by time, only so much they can crank out (just like us) |
| 19:53.41 | JademusSreg | Fun fact, model walkability is also defined in the asset, -and- can be toggled by sending a physics stop/start message to the actor. |
| 19:55.14 | ArcanePariah | Which leads to an interesting question: fundamentally, is the sc2 engine a good one, and relative to other game engines, how flexible is it? |
| 19:55.57 | ArcanePariah | From everything I've done an explored, it seems the sc2 engine is very very powerful and flexible, yet I have read complaints from ages past that it is old/creaky/weak/inflexible |
| 19:55.58 | JademusSreg | Fun fact with pretty much no practical application: sending a model swap message to flying unit actors which replaces their models with physics primitives tends to crash the game. |
| 19:56.23 | JademusSreg | Entirely too broad a question. |
| 19:56.41 | ArcanePariah | True, one would have to define the question in terms of the various segments of the editor |
| 19:56.51 | ArcanePariah | In terms of scripting, how does sc2 fare? |
| 19:57.00 | kingTD | http://youtu.be/s-D3NgNpth8?t=3m36s |
| 19:57.13 | ArcanePariah | It seems it is easy, intuitive, well documented, but the underlying language much more constrained |
| 19:57.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.231.98.170) |
| 19:57.40 | ArcanePariah | So as long as you stay within the confinies of the GUI, things work great, outside of that, things go south fast |
| 19:58.45 | JademusSreg | I can say that it is, relative to many other moddable games, very competently designed, goes to great lengths to segregate code from content, and in multiple layers. And personally, by far the best level editing tools I've ever used. |
| 20:02.23 | ArcanePariah | I wonder if the (what I coin) the Windows effect came into play for sc2. Before, many application developers were lazy with Windows XP and did not seperate code from data (writing user data directly to the application directory). Vista forced them to do otherwise since UAC would whine if you did that, so many application devs had to learn better. I wonder, with sc2 doign such a good job of... |
| 20:02.25 | ArcanePariah | ...separating code from data and thus forcing people to use the data editor was the cause of much angst as people were forced to relearn developing and thus many just gave up |
| 20:02.45 | JademusSreg | Scripting in SC2 is easy as pie, it's merely a matter of personal responsibility. It's sorta like how existential philosophers are characterized as despairing Wobbly-Headed-Bobs tormented by the revelation that there is no meaning in the universe. |
| 20:02.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836bc076@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.192.118) |
| 20:04.52 | JademusSreg | That characterization confuses the issue; it's not the existentialist who is in despair of a meaningless universe, but rather they appreciate the gravity of an existence where they alone are responsible for the cultivation of meaning and that no outside forces can provide it to them by fiat. |
| 20:06.05 | JademusSreg | In that same sense, scripting in galaxy (and obviously any other programming language to a great extent) mean that one is responsible for every little mistake of syntax and logic. |
| 20:06.12 | ArcanePariah | True, however people are not always as concerned about their own appearance to oneself, often more concerned with outward appearance |
| 20:06.13 | JademusSreg | No GUI training wheels. |
| 20:07.33 | JademusSreg | Dunno what you mean, but it is an mostly accurate observation, however unrelated. =D |
| 20:07.42 | JademusSreg | *a haha |
| 20:08.50 | ArcanePariah | I was more referring to the fact that in SC2, a large amount of the former scripting that one would do in triggers (In WC3/SC1) is now no longer needed since the state based nature of the data handles it for them, so one can have very very minimalist trigger logic, which I think is what served to estrange people from SC2, since from my recollection, many people used triggers to work around... |
| 20:08.52 | ArcanePariah | ...the limitations of the data modules of previous editors, now that they no longer need to do so, their trigger experience has less value and the formerly ignored data module is now a necessary skill |
| 20:09.54 | JademusSreg | Ya know the saying about old habits; they die a slow, miserable, stupid death. |
| 20:10.47 | ArcanePariah | As anecdotal proof, my work on NotD has largely been in code refactoring (scripting) but also structuring some triggers and then making data equilvalents (removing the scripting altogether). Although the data version tends to be SLIGHTLY more complex, it (almost be definition) is easier to examine, nearly bug free, and far more performance is gained since data logic is relatively unbounded... |
| 20:10.48 | ArcanePariah | ...compared to variable/thread limits of scripting |
| 20:11.35 | ArcanePariah | I suspect also, anything in data is effectively compiled, and thus has no performance hit during runtime since we get to skip the overhead of interpretation through a VM |
| 20:12.46 | JademusSreg | Not compiled, but the sprawling tables in which it is kept gets handled by the engine without needing to be passed from the galaxy vm to the engine via a fucking huge pointer. |
| 20:12.48 | ArcanePariah | Removing 15k lines of code was no trivial amount, over a 1/4th of the original code base |
| 20:13.40 | ArcanePariah | True, not compiled, but yes, XML pareser + engine >>>>>>>>> interpreted script in a VM passed to engine |
| 20:13.44 | ArcanePariah | parser* |
| 20:14.19 | DeadZergling | i dunno about wc3, but for SC1/BW, if you didn't use triggers, you were not going to be doing anything besides alter some hp, armor, and damage values |
| 20:14.38 | ArcanePariah | Ouch |
| 20:14.47 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, for SC2, its virtually the other extreme |
| 20:14.51 | Ahli | you used triggers in sc1 |
| 20:14.58 | ArcanePariah | You don't use data, your hosed |
| 20:15.23 | ArcanePariah | With actors being the big one, you HAVE to use them |
| 20:15.43 | DeadZergling | I wouldn't say you HAVE to use data any more than you did in sc1/bw |
| 20:15.59 | DeadZergling | but it isn't to your benefit in any way not to use it |
| 20:16.12 | DeadZergling | people expect a lot more out of maps nowadays |
| 20:16.16 | ArcanePariah | Probably, but obviously the scope of the data editor in sc2 easily dwarfs sc1 |
| 20:16.20 | JademusSreg | Yep, pretty much any sensible person can agree that, however easy it was modding WC3, it's a bouquet of dogpoo compared to SC2's raw, awesome, rawesome powahz. |
| 20:17.02 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, keeps reminding of a picture I saw once: The Wc3 editor sucks, too few options, the SC2 editor sucks, too many options |
| 20:17.21 | DeadZergling | bw editor sucked more |
| 20:17.28 | DeadZergling | had to use a special third party one to do anything |
| 20:18.53 | ArcanePariah | I'm amused by some old b.net posts saying the sc2 editor sucks and that blizzard should throw it away (yeah... I think too many people have 0 clue how much time to make said editor took). |
| 20:19.13 | DeadZergling | here is a good indicator of how pathetic the bw editor was |
| 20:19.25 | DeadZergling | I thought being able to make unlimited units using the same model was AMAZING |
| 20:19.26 | JademusSreg | Arc, the answer your earlier question in a concise and uncharacteristically-opinion-based way, the SC2 editor is splendid. |
| 20:19.35 | DeadZergling | that alone was enough to sell me on sc2 :P |
| 20:20.20 | ArcanePariah | wait what DeadZergling, you were limited one model to one unit???? da hell? |
| 20:20.35 | JademusSreg | The SC2 editor is a chocolate fountain at an all-you-can-inject insulin buffet. |
| 20:20.36 | ArcanePariah | (Then again, it was 1998, shit was primative back then...) |
| 20:20.39 | DeadZergling | what was available in campaigns is what I got |
| 20:21.09 | DeadZergling | you could disable abilities, but not add new ones |
| 20:21.46 | DeadZergling | people crapping buildings in their games, and building a zealot to activate a special ability |
| 20:21.48 | DeadZergling | was not uncommon |
| 20:22.07 | DeadZergling | dark times man |
| 20:22.18 | ArcanePariah | That just sound like masochism |
| 20:23.03 | DeadZergling | we knew no better |
| 20:23.16 | JademusSreg | The SC2 editor has the flexibility of contortionist, the voice of a siren, the soul of a lounge singer, the heart of a queen and the burning sensuality of a lonely poet. |
| 20:23.38 | DeadZergling | and the demands of a diva on your time and life |
| 20:23.53 | JademusSreg | The SC2 editor can fix the economy and cure cancers, provided you do it with the data. |
| 20:25.06 | ArcanePariah | I think really at this point, the data editor needs almost no new additions, just add more links for the object explorer/data navigator so we can see how things are linked together, and more documentation |
| 20:25.38 | DeadZergling | all it really needs is tooltips worth reading |
| 20:25.55 | JademusSreg | The SC2 editor is a Rube-Goldberg Contraption made entirely of carefully sculpted ecstasy and bliss. |
| 20:26.24 | ArcanePariah | Well DeadZergling, you are in luck, the tooltips we get with 2.1 are full on tutorials practically |
| 20:26.48 | DeadZergling | that's good, is a lot of hugely unused data types |
| 20:27.01 | DeadZergling | that might be used more if people knew what the hell they did |
| 20:27.03 | ArcanePariah | They add tooltips to every drop down menu for actor messages, and a number of other fields in actors. The tooltips are often a paragraph long |
| 20:27.09 | JademusSreg | got distracted by the gag. |
| 20:27.28 | ArcanePariah | like the Dropdown menu for scope in actors, now has a tooltip expalining every single option |
| 20:27.52 | DeadZergling | nice, I had to bother Kueken to understand them at all |
| 20:28.36 | JademusSreg | But yeah, the data editor needs more convenient abstraction constructs to bundle the types in a less intimidating fashion, so new users don't flip the fuck out. |
| 20:28.58 | DeadZergling | I remember my first trip into data fondly |
| 20:29.15 | ArcanePariah | Here's the "tooltip", otgive you an idea |
| 20:29.15 | JademusSreg | Shockingly, even experienced users still copy data, haha. |
| 20:29.16 | ArcanePariah | http://i.imgur.com/GfMk1Rb.png |
| 20:29.27 | DeadZergling | After a few hours, and still not being able to change a weapon's damage |
| 20:29.36 | DeadZergling | I said fuck this and didn't return for a few months |
| 20:29.45 | Ahli | whaaaaaat the :D |
| 20:30.00 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... tooltip, more like a tutorial |
| 20:30.07 | JademusSreg | The tooltip has escaped the confines of your monitor. |
| 20:30.21 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, its THAT long |
| 20:30.29 | JademusSreg | Catch it quickly, lest it escape with its insightful loot. |
| 20:30.40 | ArcanePariah | Actually, nah, it just goes to the bottom |
| 20:31.16 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, they are giving VERY descriptive tooltips |
| 20:31.20 | JademusSreg | Comedic purpose is more valuable than your factual accuracy. =D |
| 20:31.28 | ArcanePariah | Pssh |
| 20:31.29 | ArcanePariah | XD |
| 20:32.36 | JademusSreg | Remember, intellectual and emotional development correspond positively to playfulness. =D |
| 20:37.41 | Kueken | lies |
| 20:38.05 | JademusSreg | Caw. |
| 20:39.09 | DeadZergling | Now more of what the internet was really created for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5d7aruKYkKs |
| 20:39.17 | Kueken | googled a word today: check |
| 20:40.28 | Zandose | Hey ArcanePariah, mind if i bug you for a bit? |
| 20:40.41 | JademusSreg | returns to porting shitty C code. |
| 20:46.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zandose (Zandose@24-246-78-228.cable.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:46.30 | JademusSreg | Hm, seems like a good time for performance tests. |
| 20:46.37 | JademusSreg | vlc |
| 20:47.42 | JademusSreg | Hah, keyboard shit the bed and input the command in IRC. =D |
| 20:48.37 | Dustin|Work | :set paste! |
| 20:48.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 20:48.45 | Dustin|Work | Aww shit son |
| 20:48.47 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:48.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 20:49.35 | JademusSreg | (In case that didn't make sense: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tz3d5dopjtsn9e4/Desktop.jpg ) |
| 20:49.57 | Zandose | in data, can i make a actor event run a trigger? |
| 20:50.12 | JademusSreg | Nope. |
| 20:51.33 | JademusSreg | Actors are asynchronous, they can receive information from synchronous sources, but cannot send. |
| 20:51.46 | Zandose | k |
| 20:55.24 | Zandose | does does the actor message Signal do? |
| 20:56.05 | JademusSreg | Sends a generic signal with the content of the input string. |
| 20:56.44 | Zandose | can the content be to add actor to a scope (in triggers) or return something triggers can use to know which actor? |
| 20:57.06 | JademusSreg | So if you have an actor with the event Signal.*.ShitWiggle and an event Signal.*.PissTickle, and you send the signal ShitWiggle, the first event fires, the second doesn't. |
| 20:57.55 | JademusSreg | (A similar trigger signal native was added in 1.5) |
| 20:58.05 | Zandose | ¿ im trying to make it so i can detect actors in range of a unit |
| 20:58.16 | JademusSreg | Detect and do that? |
| 20:58.45 | Zandose | detect range for collision and damage the unit |
| 20:58.53 | JademusSreg | Sounds like Arc's region and query tutorial is what you need, assuming you're wanting to do something that is possible. |
| 20:59.03 | JademusSreg | Yeah, no. |
| 20:59.27 | Zandose | i looked at it but its in data and i need triggers |
| 21:00.12 | JademusSreg | Perhaps you could clarify? Because that doesn't sound possible. You'd need to detect something synchronous, like a unit, or check a set of values stored in variables or such. |
| 21:02.02 | Zandose | uh... on the map i have a unit and lots of simple actors w/ models. I want them to know when the distance between them (or a small region) becomes too close and to make the units collide, move slightly, and get damaged from hitting each other. |
| 21:02.51 | JademusSreg | If you mean only in terms of visuals, that's possible, since that's just actor-actor interaction. |
| 21:03.10 | Zandose | but damaging the unit.... |
| 21:03.18 | JademusSreg | If you mean actually modify a synchronous state in response to an asynchronous event, no, not doable. |
| 21:03.25 | Zandose | and visuals don't move the unit just the actor? |
| 21:03.32 | JademusSreg | Right. |
| 21:03.51 | Zandose | err. i want doodads to be usable |
| 21:04.00 | JademusSreg | Use units instead. |
| 21:04.07 | Zandose | tried already |
| 21:04.17 | Zandose | game cant handle the number of units i'd need |
| 21:04.49 | Zandose | whats the unit limit? |
| 21:04.54 | JademusSreg | Then you'll need to store a whole bunch of information in variables and check the state from the code or trigger with events. |
| 21:05.32 | Zandose | but events cant detect this kind of stuff right> |
| 21:05.33 | Zandose | ? |
| 21:05.41 | JademusSreg | Those are the only two options. Use units or define the collidable shit in trigger code. |
| 21:06.07 | Zandose | you mean store the actors position and trigger-check it? |
| 21:07.21 | JademusSreg | If you create the actor from the trigger code and keep the information about where you created it in some way, that can be done. You -cannot- receive synchronous data from an asynchronous source. |
| 21:07.33 | Zandose | k |
| 21:07.38 | Zandose | that might be doable |
| 21:07.47 | Zandose | i already have the information saved |
| 21:08.06 | JademusSreg | Which is to say triggers can talk to actors, actors cannot talk to triggers. =D |
| 21:08.31 | Zandose | k |
| 21:09.16 | Zandose | do you by any chance know the impact of checking the distance between 204800 objects? |
| 21:09.37 | JademusSreg | Bad. |
| 21:10.16 | Zandose | whats the distance code that blizz uses? |
| 21:11.03 | Zandose | hmm |
| 21:11.23 | JademusSreg | Basic math, I expect. But it's just not efficient to check that many per update. |
| 21:11.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater916 (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 21:13.45 | Zandose | true. i could prehaps change the way the variables are done so that their either sectioned off depending on map location for smaller batches or sort the variables by position so i can jump to the nearest variables |
| 21:14.37 | Zandose | anything non-resource hungry i could throw into the actors position to use for detecting? |
| 21:14.57 | Zandose | like a unit but not a unit |
| 21:16.35 | MoonEater916 | lozl |
| 21:16.37 | MoonEater916 | i do that |
| 21:16.39 | MoonEater916 | for sprites |
| 21:16.47 | Zandose | which one? |
| 21:16.47 | MoonEater916 | the ground is nothing but units |
| 21:16.51 | Zandose | oh |
| 21:16.57 | MoonEater916 | ill show u 1 sec |
| 21:17.01 | JademusSreg | I've been working on that problem, as well. There is no -easy- answer, but if you're comfortable with math, you can define plenty of arbitrary shapes. =D |
| 21:17.05 | Zandose | i'd need 200000 units... |
| 21:17.13 | JademusSreg | Zan, why so many? |
| 21:17.14 | Zandose | huh? |
| 21:17.28 | MoonEater916 | lolz |
| 21:17.33 | MoonEater916 | nono |
| 21:17.34 | Zandose | to replace doodads on a 256x256 map |
| 21:17.40 | MoonEater916 | you dont simply make 20k units |
| 21:17.44 | Zandose | part of random map generation |
| 21:18.03 | MoonEater916 | the map wont accept it |
| 21:18.06 | Zandose | i thought of only making units for the area the player is in |
| 21:18.08 | MoonEater916 | theres a unit limit |
| 21:18.26 | MoonEater916 | you could do that |
| 21:18.36 | Zolden | Zandose don't use units for terrain generation, use numebrs |
| 21:18.40 | Zandose | how do you do it? |
| 21:19.24 | Zolden | Zandose what terrain do you want to create with your algorithm, and how do you plan to create it |
| 21:19.36 | JademusSreg | I've got a demo map for the this. |
| 21:19.41 | JademusSreg | And ancient demo map. |
| 21:20.01 | JademusSreg | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/SuperMapPOC.SC2Map |
| 21:20.10 | Zandose | download the last map "WINP - 26" and see. http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/player-zone/map-feedback/60176-what-is-next-project-winp/#p1 |
| 21:20.22 | Zolden | i have a demo map that recreates a situation JademusSreg doesn't have demo map for |
| 21:21.02 | MoonEater916 | jade |
| 21:21.06 | MoonEater916 | what does the map do? |
| 21:21.41 | JademusSreg | The ancient demo, Super Map proof of concept. Randomly generates map features using the x and y values of the current map with then supermap for the seed values of pseudorandom number gen. |
| 21:22.07 | JademusSreg | Move Karass to the edge of the map, and it generates the next map. |
| 21:22.34 | JademusSreg | *within the supermap |
| 21:23.29 | Zandose | i went for random generation and saving the map |
| 21:23.40 | Zandose | also generating multiple maps |
| 21:23.56 | MoonEater916 | ah |
| 21:24.09 | MoonEater916 | well i do a simular thing |
| 21:24.13 | Zandose | so you use units at doodads |
| 21:24.23 | Zandose | as* |
| 21:24.41 | Zandose | how many units do you use? |
| 21:24.43 | JademusSreg | Just pointing out that the 20fucktillion doodad approach is definitely not workable in any way. |
| 21:24.57 | JademusSreg | I only make a few with each map. |
| 21:24.59 | Zandose | actors can do it |
| 21:24.59 | JademusSreg | Easy. |
| 21:25.25 | JademusSreg | Actors cannot apply footprints when created at runtime. |
| 21:25.26 | Zandose | each tree doesn't have its own unit? |
| 21:25.37 | JademusSreg | Each tree has its own unit, yes. |
| 21:26.00 | Zandose | so in your 96x96 map how many units? |
| 21:26.13 | JademusSreg | Except I don't create a dreadful number of them in the terrain editor, I generate them from the code. |
| 21:26.32 | JademusSreg | Should have some crude limits defined in the script. |
| 21:26.41 | Zandose | no footprints. just need to detect collision |
| 21:26.59 | MoonEater916 | ya |
| 21:27.00 | Zandose | i tried units by code and got errors |
| 21:27.07 | MoonEater916 | im bored |
| 21:27.52 | Zandose | sorry MoonEator i didnt see your qiestion before. do you still want to know what the map does of have you already tried it? |
| 21:28.12 | MoonEater916 | im good |
| 21:28.20 | MoonEater916 | im familar with map generation |
| 21:28.32 | MoonEater916 | sprite quest relys completly on a complex system |
| 21:28.53 | Zandose | i wanted to go non-complex |
| 21:29.04 | MoonEater916 | thats understandable |
| 21:29.07 | Zandose | anything i do thats complex never works |
| 21:29.13 | MoonEater916 | it works |
| 21:29.17 | MoonEater916 | you just have to debug it |
| 21:29.32 | MoonEater916 | my issue is that theres lag spikes when i generate new terrains |
| 21:29.40 | Zandose | debugging is fine. its the limites of the editor/game |
| 21:29.48 | MoonEater916 | ill have build it a longer period of time |
| 21:30.05 | Zandose | my lag spike only lasts a second or so. havent tested online though |
| 21:30.09 | MoonEater916 | well if you want to see terrain generation on a massive scale |
| 21:30.13 | MoonEater916 | find me sometime |
| 21:30.14 | MoonEater916 | :P |
| 21:30.31 | Zandose | i've seen it. i've tried it. i cant fix its flaws |
| 21:31.13 | Zandose | unless you can blanket the whole terrain in somekind of model which comforms to the terrain |
| 21:31.31 | MoonEater916 | not even |
| 21:31.38 | MoonEater916 | the models make the terrain |
| 21:31.45 | MoonEater916 | i painted the entire map black |
| 21:31.56 | MoonEater916 | nothing is on it |
| 21:31.59 | Zandose | for top-down view its doable but for a 1st or 3rd person it doesnt work |
| 21:32.06 | Zandose | oh |
| 21:32.12 | Zandose | now i want to see... |
| 21:32.13 | Zandose | lol |
| 21:32.14 | MoonEater916 | if zolden helped me |
| 21:32.18 | MoonEater916 | i could do |
| 21:32.19 | MoonEater916 | 3d |
| 21:32.27 | MoonEater916 | i need proper models |
| 21:32.39 | Zandose | you can only do flat terrain? |
| 21:32.46 | MoonEater916 | i could even perhaps fake terrain levels |
| 21:33.00 | Zandose | can i please see it? |
| 21:33.01 | MoonEater916 | right now im using 2D sprites |
| 21:33.08 | MoonEater916 | sure |
| 21:33.11 | MoonEater916 | lets go to NA |
| 21:33.17 | Zandose | 2d sprites on 3d models? |
| 21:33.31 | Zandose | dont want to just upload the map? |
| 21:33.52 | Zandose | i love seeing the codes |
| 21:33.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster peshend (~peshend@91.210.102.2) |
| 21:33.57 | MoonEater916 | i will |
| 21:34.06 | MoonEater916 | but i want to keep a patent on it for abit |
| 21:34.20 | MoonEater916 | i dont mind sharing snippets |
| 21:34.35 | MoonEater916 | im in the mapsters channel on NA |
| 21:34.46 | Zandose | i use to think that way but i find it helps me better to just upload the map on the furm |
| 21:34.51 | Zandose | forum* |
| 21:34.57 | Zandose | k |
| 21:35.36 | MoonEater916 | like i said i dont want to get stolen from and userped |
| 21:35.44 | MoonEater916 | after ward its fine |
| 21:35.49 | MoonEater916 | like subjection |
| 21:35.55 | Zandose | k |
| 21:35.59 | Zandose | you in channel? |
| 21:36.49 | MoonEater916 | on NA |
| 21:36.49 | MoonEater916 | yes |
| 21:36.52 | MoonEater916 | sc2mapsters |
| 21:37.16 | Zandose | sc2mapsters |
| 21:37.41 | Zandose | america? |
| 21:38.04 | MoonEater916 | yes |
| 21:38.07 | MoonEater916 | Nother America Server |
| 21:38.11 | MoonEater916 | urs probably EU |
| 21:39.12 | Zandose | theirs more then one america server? |
| 21:39.34 | MoonEater916 | no? |
| 21:39.43 | Zandose | americas server, room sc2mapsters |
| 21:39.52 | MoonEater916 | add code and name? |
| 21:39.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster JonesFK (jygga@unaffiliated/jygga) |
| 21:40.26 | kingTD | sc2mapster? |
| 21:40.32 | kingTD | without S? |
| 21:40.39 | MoonEater916 | yes that 2 |
| 21:41.01 | MoonEater916 | theres only 1 |
| 21:41.15 | Zandose | tried all variations i could think of |
| 21:41.21 | MoonEater916 | add code |
| 21:41.23 | MoonEater916 | username |
| 21:41.59 | Zandose | i think im zandose#1115 |
| 21:42.04 | Zandose | well on d3 i am |
| 21:42.23 | MoonEater916 | lolz |
| 21:42.25 | MoonEater916 | not on NA |
| 21:42.43 | Zandose | code 239 |
| 22:02.59 | G0A | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/12033216/the-arcade-holiday-marathon-12-16-2013 |
| 22:03.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Serashin (4ff3424e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.243.66.78) |
| 22:13.07 | Zolden | i'd rather do weed smoking pizza eating and movie watching holiday marathon |
| 22:15.13 | Dustin|Work | ^5 |
| 22:15.29 | G0A | you can play arcade along those activities:) |
| 22:18.16 | G0A | lol Ahli:) |
| 22:18.22 | G0A | Pictionary |
| 22:18.23 | G0A | Random Slide |
| 22:18.27 | Ahli | :D |
| 22:18.29 | Ahli | I like |
| 22:19.38 | G0A | Zolden you are infecting my player base:) http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3975923/1/Wargasm/matches |
| 22:20.32 | Ahli | :DDDD |
| 22:20.39 | Zolden | wargasm is initially squad td fan, so it's understandable |
| 22:20.58 | G0A | he just beat us in Entropy TD:) |
| 22:21.04 | JademusSreg | One day, I shall lure back Wargasm. |
| 22:21.25 | Ahli | alright, I slept 2 hours and received all birthday calls today. beer right back |
| 22:21.46 | Zandose | you replace multiple units in a area with one unit with a larger blocker, use actor+model to replace the missing units, and use a system of variable for each actor+model and just check the position of attack and do damage to the variable. |
| 22:22.31 | Zandose | you replace multiple units in a area with one unit with a larger blocker, use actor+model to replace the missing units (visual), and use a system of variable for each actor+model and just check the position of attack and do damage to the variable. |
| 22:22.46 | Zolden | Ahli is it your birthstay or you're recieving for someone else? |
| 22:24.21 | G0A | Every smart man borns in December |
| 22:24.30 | Dustin|Work | I was born in December |
| 22:24.31 | Dustin|Work | Checks out |
| 22:24.38 | Ahli | it's my birthday, ya |
| 22:24.40 | Dustin|Work | Christmas to be exact |
| 22:25.08 | Dustin|Work | So i'm like, smart jesus incarnate. |
| 22:25.22 | Ahli | yess, storing my beer in my car outside was a great idea... |
| 22:25.36 | Dustin|Work | Beerslushie |
| 22:25.45 | Zandose | question, if you had to store 200k points in trigger variables what would be the best way to organize them so i could jump to the closest set of variables based on another point. |
| 22:26.10 | Dustin|Work | Oh dear god zandose |
| 22:26.17 | Zolden | Ahli then you have to recieve 2 more congratulation from me and another me |
| 22:26.22 | Dustin|Work | Some sort of datatable matrix |
| 22:26.24 | G0A | Dustin I born at 23 so yeah, you are genius!:) |
| 22:26.29 | Dustin|Work | :D |
| 22:26.30 | Ahli | the another u? |
| 22:26.32 | MoonEater916 | back |
| 22:26.34 | MoonEater916 | Zandose |
| 22:26.42 | Ahli | you and the dude that looks like you in the mirror? |
| 22:26.46 | Zolden | yea, there's another Zolden |
| 22:26.49 | Zandose | hu |
| 22:26.54 | MoonEater916 | lolz |
| 22:27.00 | Ahli | thx |
| 22:27.00 | MoonEater916 | i demand that this nonsense stops |
| 22:27.24 | Zolden | for example, on team liquid i had to register as Zolden_, because Zolden was taken |
| 22:27.25 | G0A | Ahli Happy Birthday from all my alternative egos |
| 22:27.42 | MoonEater916 | lolz |
| 22:27.44 | Dustin|Work | Ya Ahli, happy leaving the womb day! |
| 22:27.56 | ArcanePariah | Happy Extra Beer Day Ahli |
| 22:27.59 | Zolden | Ahli what ppl in germany do on their birthsday? |
| 22:28.06 | Ahli | I'm going to be so drunk this WE... I receive something like this: http://static.pagenstecher.de/uploads/d/d0/d06/d063/sockenkranz.jpg |
| 22:28.16 | Ahli | normally they drink and party |
| 22:28.34 | Ahli | but it's also my father's birthday, so I'm not doing anything tonight. He passed away 2 years ago |
| 22:29.01 | MoonEater916 | WE WILL DRINK FOR YOU |
| 22:29.33 | Ahli | with your caps, I'm sure you already did ^^ |
| 22:30.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-141.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 22:30.41 | JademusSreg | runs a ridiculous performance test. |
| 22:31.13 | Zandose | bubble sort 200k points? |
| 22:31.18 | Ahli | :D |
| 22:31.31 | MoonEater916 | jade, performing rediculous task, especialy knowing they are rediculous shows how rediculous you are |
| 22:31.36 | MoonEater916 | LOLZ! |
| 22:31.59 | Ahli | why do you even need to save 200k points? |
| 22:32.07 | Zandose | 200k doodads |
| 22:32.29 | Ahli | may I ask what you are doing? |
| 22:32.29 | MoonEater916 | god |
| 22:32.44 | MoonEater916 | now i remember why i used units |
| 22:32.54 | MoonEater916 | cause i didnt want to make a dodad stack |
| 22:33.00 | Zandose | lol |
| 22:33.16 | MoonEater916 | they have one premade for units |
| 22:33.21 | MoonEater916 | with no real limit |
| 22:33.24 | Zandose | ? |
| 22:33.39 | Ahli | he refers to unit group |
| 22:33.45 | Zandose | ah |
| 22:33.48 | G0A | Zandose 200k point will be visible in any kind on the map? because if its so it will make the game impossible |
| 22:34.10 | MoonEater916 | naw |
| 22:34.16 | MoonEater916 | wait |
| 22:34.21 | DeadZergling | the 200k thing, is just kind of, why |
| 22:34.29 | Zandose | all actors+models are visible except for the camera slipping |
| 22:34.32 | Zandose | clipping* |
| 22:34.33 | DeadZergling | why in all hell would you need 200k |
| 22:34.41 | MoonEater916 | 2560x2560=6553600 |
| 22:34.42 | Zandose | 256x256 map |
| 22:34.45 | MoonEater916 | you need that many |
| 22:34.50 | Dustin|Work | What are you using those points for |
| 22:34.51 | Zandose | hmm |
| 22:34.53 | JademusSreg | Running tests. Managed to get to 1801581 iterations when it crapped out. Lets see if I can get the full 2147483647 runs. |
| 22:35.11 | MoonEater916 | lolz!!! |
| 22:35.12 | Zandose | the map doesnt come out very dense with 200k |
| 22:35.21 | MoonEater916 | HES RECURSIVE BUBBLE SORTING |
| 22:35.23 | MoonEater916 | OH NOOZ |
| 22:35.24 | DeadZergling | Hrrrrmmm, why do you need 10 points for every number |
| 22:35.26 | MoonEater916 | OVERFLOWZ |
| 22:35.44 | MoonEater916 | Deadzergling hes calculating 3 |
| 22:35.45 | Zandose | maybe i should check if the 200k is really working |
| 22:35.53 | Ahli | create another thread with the rest... do all the calculations in one trigger cycle |
| 22:36.03 | G0A | 40k offscreen actor makes me to have 5 fps without even being on battlenet |
| 22:36.14 | DeadZergling | what would be so terrible about say, 2 points for every number :P |
| 22:36.28 | Ahli | g0a what about 40k hidden offscreen actors? |
| 22:36.36 | Ahli | send message visibility 0 |
| 22:36.37 | MoonEater916 | G0A your lame computer issues are not our problem (so i say to people who complain about lag in my maps) |
| 22:36.47 | G0A | Ahli its like half as good |
| 22:36.57 | G0A | if I remember correctly |
| 22:37.03 | G0A | so that would make 10 fps |
| 22:37.36 | G0A | MoonEater916 you dont want a mutliplayer map to lag... |
| 22:37.42 | MoonEater916 | Technicaly you could make a buble system |
| 22:37.51 | MoonEater916 | have units spawn and unspawn around you |
| 22:37.54 | G0A | though he might be making it for single player |
| 22:38.09 | MoonEater916 | like |
| 22:38.21 | G0A | and just have infinite map like that.D |
| 22:38.21 | Zandose | counter reads 450k |
| 22:38.21 | MoonEater916 | put a regions to untis at lets say 10 squares |
| 22:38.28 | MoonEater916 | unit leaves map its remove |
| 22:38.32 | MoonEater916 | unit moves |
| 22:38.38 | MoonEater916 | load area ahade |
| 22:38.46 | MoonEater916 | thats how most game engines work anyways |
| 22:38.52 | DeadZergling | well this 200k business is just silly |
| 22:39.08 | DeadZergling | but if you gonna insist on that, can't you at least only do shit for the area players are actually in? |
| 22:39.16 | DeadZergling | only run iterations for say 20k of all that mess? |
| 22:39.26 | MoonEater916 | lolz |
| 22:39.29 | MoonEater916 | not even |
| 22:39.32 | MoonEater916 | bubble system |
| 22:39.38 | MoonEater916 | attach region to units |
| 22:39.43 | Zandose | but the map doesnt look dense for 200k. hmm. is it working |
| 22:39.43 | MoonEater916 | then spawn around the unit |
| 22:40.01 | MoonEater916 | Zandose |
| 22:40.04 | MoonEater916 | im telling |
| 22:40.11 | MoonEater916 | make a periodic trigger that |
| 22:40.18 | MoonEater916 | generates the units |
| 22:40.34 | MoonEater916 | 10 squares diameter around each unit |
| 22:40.40 | Zandose | thought about that |
| 22:40.41 | G0A | 200k unit is 4 units per 1x1 in a 256x256 map |
| 22:41.14 | JademusSreg | https://www.dropbox.com/s/e273xl5adw4nzzl/GalaxyPerformance.png |
| 22:41.27 | DeadZergling | what would require that much control though |
| 22:41.47 | G0A | if you arent making a very deep 3d map then I dont understand why would you need 200k units |
| 22:42.05 | MoonEater916 | wow look at subtraction... |
| 22:42.46 | JademusSreg | I'm surprised how slow the bit ops are. =\ |
| 22:42.52 | MoonEater916 | Jade is kinda weird |
| 22:42.54 | Zandose | well i messed up. 1600 doodad count |
| 22:42.59 | Serashin | 200 k units beat 180 k units |
| 22:43.01 | Serashin | thats why |
| 22:43.02 | MoonEater916 | the adverage run time is soo low |
| 22:43.06 | MoonEater916 | but the worst time is soo high |
| 22:43.23 | MoonEater916 | you wouldnt think 1000 difference would be possible |
| 22:43.45 | Zandose | nevermind anymore |
| 22:43.48 | Dustin|Work | http://ds9a.nl/amazing-dna/ |
| 22:44.58 | Zandose | rebuilding code.... |
| 22:45.19 | DeadZergling | I used to be more of a fan of LOTS of units, of course then I discovered after a certain number exist, units would simply forget to attack back most the time |
| 22:45.31 | JademusSreg | Though to provide context, I should point out that the TestVoid total time can be subtracted from all the other test calls, since it's just an empty function, which provides a baseline time for simply calling a function. |
| 22:45.50 | DeadZergling | made the whole lots of units thing not such a good idea |
| 22:45.58 | Zandose | whats the unit limit? |
| 22:46.06 | Dustin|Work | 7 |
| 22:46.08 | Dustin|Work | ish |
| 22:46.12 | Dustin|Work | ;) |
| 22:46.13 | Zandose | k lol |
| 22:46.26 | MoonEater916 | well heres what i notice |
| 22:46.30 | Dustin|Work | Hehe Im not sure of the hard limit on units |
| 22:46.32 | MoonEater916 | players want lots of units |
| 22:46.37 | MoonEater916 | lots of flashy big shit |
| 22:46.40 | MoonEater916 | and explosions |
| 22:47.01 | Ahli | I've tons of units, eats tons of FPS |
| 22:47.16 | JademusSreg | Units use gobs of memory. |
| 22:47.25 | MoonEater916 | i bet |
| 22:47.28 | MoonEater916 | soo much data |
| 22:47.35 | JademusSreg | Anyway, good initial test. Just need to prevent it from shitting itself next time. |
| 22:47.37 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 22:48.13 | MoonEater916 | JademusSreg |
| 22:48.18 | Zandose | 3200 units = bad? |
| 22:48.23 | MoonEater916 | wouldnt these tests only really work for your computer? |
| 22:49.02 | MoonEater916 | i mean doesnt each computer processor handle data slightly differently |
| 22:50.53 | Ahli | units, so memory, very much, wow http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Shibe_Inu_Doge_meme.jpg |
| 22:51.23 | DeadZergling | 3200 does seem kind of high still zandose, I know ahli does some actor hiding magic to make diablo more playable |
| 22:52.10 | DeadZergling | try this out sometime, makeunit zergling 3200 |
| 22:52.15 | DeadZergling | see what your processor thinks of that |
| 22:52.34 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.7.59.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 22:53.42 | Ahli | I'm only hiding the actors in the area... but I've also this problem: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10787538941 |
| 22:54.22 | Ahli | hiding the snapshots of other dungeons was required to make the map playable after exploring 4-6 dungeons. |
| 22:55.05 | Zandose | cant destroy the actor? |
| 22:55.09 | DeadZergling | heh, I remain happy that I now have noob noob monsters in my starting area |
| 22:55.33 | DeadZergling | thanks again for making your map way too hard from the get-go to inspire me to do that Zolden |
| 22:59.44 | Ahli | create unit is the biggest lagger right now :S |
| 23:00.01 | Zandose | what unit are you using? |
| 23:02.53 | Ahli | mostly structures for dungeon walls and dungeon objects |
| 23:30.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster ApplePie (184a8fa2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.74.143.162) |
| 23:32.31 | ApplePie | Damn this place is barren |
| 23:32.35 | ApplePie | ~sixen |
| 23:32.35 | purl | [sixen] our glorious overlord who without, we wouldn't have this cyberslum to fling our messy verbal diarrhea around. |
| 23:32.40 | ApplePie | ~seen sixen |
| 23:32.42 | purl | sixen <~Sixen@173-16-1-92.client.mchsi.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 66d 23h 45s ago, saying: 'lol'. |
| 23:32.50 | ApplePie | 66 days ago :( |
| 23:32.56 | ApplePie | just a shame. |
| 23:33.02 | ArcanePariah | ehh? |
| 23:33.04 | ApplePie | Anyone here playing Hearthstone wanna play? |
| 23:33.09 | ApplePie | < tainted |
| 23:34.05 | ApplePie | Just bored and wanna see how my deck stacks up, Play mode and ranked is filled with people testing new decks, I wanna try it against something a bit better |
| 23:35.15 | ApplePie | JademusSreg, what you up to these days? |
| 23:36.03 | ApplePie | Zolden whats up? |
| 23:36.53 | ObsceneCereal | ~seen Obscene |
| 23:36.54 | purl | obscene <184a8609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.74.134.9> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 67d 4h 3m 18s ago, saying: 'Now after these awards I can do some give aways :P'. |
| 23:37.11 | ObsceneCereal | hmm but it just said it was in use :/ |
| 23:37.12 | ObsceneCereal | oh well |
| 23:37.32 | MoonEater916 | lol hey its taintedwisp |
| 23:37.33 | MoonEater916 | wassup? |
| 23:37.40 | ObsceneCereal | not much |
| 23:37.49 | ObsceneCereal | Is it me or is this community much more dead for this time of day? |
| 23:40.39 | JademusSreg | Kazoo. |
| 23:40.59 | ObsceneCereal | thats Mr. Kazoo kazoo |
| 23:41.11 | ObsceneCereal | What you up to jademus? |
| 23:41.23 | JademusSreg | I've been making All The Maps. |
| 23:41.54 | ObsceneCereal | Sorry to hear that, what happend to sixen did he quit? |
| 23:42.09 | ObsceneCereal | oh god dont tell me he has been put in charge of the hearthstone community GOD NO |
| 23:42.17 | ObsceneCereal | or the blizzard allstars... |
| 23:42.55 | Zolden | ObsceneCereal hey |
| 23:43.03 | ObsceneCereal | :( |
| 23:43.06 | JademusSreg | Sixen is always here with us, one must simply have faith. |
| 23:43.10 | ObsceneCereal | Anyone playing hearthstone :P |
| 23:43.36 | JademusSreg | I've got beta access, haven't had time to play. |
| 23:43.40 | ObsceneCereal | Ahh |
| 23:43.40 | Zolden | i'm playing penithstone |
| 23:43.52 | ObsceneCereal | Imma warn you, the Pay 2 Win is strong with this one :P |
| 23:44.03 | ObsceneCereal | Its probably one of the largest grinds I have ever seen in any game |
| 23:44.20 | ObsceneCereal | its like 5 hours for 1 pack free 2 play lol and its capped at 1 pack per day |
| 23:44.22 | Zolden | ObsceneCereal have you fixed your map's lags? |
| 23:44.33 | ObsceneCereal | Zolden I fixed that before I left mapping |
| 23:44.41 | ObsceneCereal | if you wish to finish my map go for it ill send you the file |
| 23:44.49 | Zolden | and what you did after you left mapping? |
| 23:45.01 | ObsceneCereal | "Stuff" |
| 23:45.02 | ObsceneCereal | :OP |
| 23:45.12 | ObsceneCereal | and some "things |
| 23:45.15 | Zolden | what stuff? nazi stuff? |
| 23:45.18 | ObsceneCereal | I would reccommend it |
| 23:45.43 | ObsceneCereal | Well of course, I went back in time and became my own great great great great grandfather, and than literally became hitler |
| 23:45.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 23:46.11 | Zandose | whats the smallest wait time again? |
| 23:46.22 | ArcanePariah | 1/16th of a second |
| 23:46.26 | Zandose | for wait 0.0 |
| 23:46.30 | ObsceneCereal | It's pretty nice, except this time I forgot to kill the jews and attacked the rockafellers, and rothschilds specifically |
| 23:46.35 | Zolden | ObsceneCereal http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/funny-peter-griffen-family-guy-hitler-nazi-stuff-tv-scene.jpg |
| 23:46.45 | Zandose | 0.0375? |
| 23:47.18 | ObsceneCereal | :( that show just reminds me how stupid the world is... |
| 23:47.32 | ObsceneCereal | Futurama gets cancelled and family guy recieves its highest ratings ever :( |
| 23:47.40 | ArcanePariah | Zandose: 0.0625 |
| 23:48.06 | ObsceneCereal | We are in the end of days!!!! Futurama is the only show to have 10 great consecutive seasons |
| 23:48.18 | ObsceneCereal | Simpsons made it to 8... |
| 23:48.21 | Zandose | doesn't wait 0.00001 = 0.0625 and wait 0.0 = 0.0375> |
| 23:48.35 | ArcanePariah | Both will be 0.0625 |
| 23:48.40 | Zandose | k |
| 23:49.12 | ObsceneCereal | Yeah zolden if you are that worried about it you are free to continue my project |
| 23:49.30 | ObsceneCereal | Otherwise I am about to post it on the forums for anyone to use. |
| 23:50.05 | Zolden | i have my projects to work on, sry |
| 23:50.19 | DeadZergling | you still around huh ObsceneCereal ? |
| 23:50.25 | ObsceneCereal | What projects you workin on? |
| 23:50.49 | DeadZergling | same, defending a future project idea from Bounty, lol |
| 23:50.55 | ObsceneCereal | around where? alive? of course I am only 21... damn zergling how old do you think the life expectancy is? |
| 23:51.22 | Zolden | ObsceneCereal you better tell me what you exchanged mapmaking for? got a job? became scientologist? decided to move to ny? want to change sex? |
| 23:51.41 | ObsceneCereal | Well the last things would mean I was fucked in the head...... |
| 23:52.10 | ObsceneCereal | A job? no, though I did a bit of freelance work, I exchanged it for other oppertunities which I am still looking ofr a business partner for |
| 23:52.48 | ObsceneCereal | I have an idea that will probably succeed if I can find someone who will work for half ownership when its finished. |
| 23:53.08 | ObsceneCereal | Otherwise I am learning Website building. :P |
| 23:53.23 | Zolden | usa is a country of reach possibilities, it's law makes business easy, and its prosperity makes business senseless |
| 23:53.42 | Zolden | oh, website builiding is an area that has always customers in it |
| 23:53.53 | ObsceneCereal | and its businesses makes businesses hard :P |
| 23:54.13 | Zolden | what if you open a weed store? |
| 23:54.13 | ObsceneCereal | No i need to build a website for... err a form of marketing. |
| 23:54.26 | DeadZergling | you making a porn site? |
| 23:54.31 | ObsceneCereal | Its not something I am really interested in, its more of a "make money" idea, not really something I care about |
| 23:54.37 | ObsceneCereal | LOL no |
| 23:54.38 | Zolden | build a web site for people like you, who left mapmaking and need a new reason of life |
| 23:54.41 | ObsceneCereal | right now its still an idea |
| 23:55.06 | ObsceneCereal | I have a reason for life... that reason Is to not support a company who wont support its own community :P |
| 23:55.08 | Zolden | make a website for people who have smaller penis then you and visit this site every day |
| 23:55.26 | Zandose | is it 0 or -1 for random actor/model variation? |
| 23:55.36 | ObsceneCereal | That website would be for the majority of people on earth |
| 23:55.44 | Zolden | maybe the company simply don't want to support its community because it doesn't support the company |
| 23:55.52 | ObsceneCereal | -1 i believe |
| 23:56.15 | ObsceneCereal | If your building maps for a game that helps increase their sales you are supporting the company. |
| 23:56.24 | ObsceneCereal | you're |
| 23:58.12 | ObsceneCereal | Starcraft is pretty dead now anyways :P. even their top personalities have for the most part switched to other games. mostly to hearthstone, league or dota 2 |
| 23:58.57 | ObsceneCereal | It's debatable if they even make the 3rd part of starcraft 2. I think they will just on principal but I dont think it will be a financial success |
| 23:59.24 | ObsceneCereal | Unlike this one, I will wait till it is on sale for 10$ |
