| 00:02.19 | A1win | wooo, jaedong finally got his victory |
| 00:46.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 02:28.07 | Lajjla | A1win, mutta nyt se ei ole enää kong =( |
| 02:28.17 | Lajjla | Kunka tulee nyt olla kong? |
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| 03:37.06 | Zandose | has anyone made a trigger for a generic "select by texture id" for any unit? |
| 03:38.44 | Zandose | and hi |
| 03:40.32 | JademusSreg | Zoople. |
| 03:40.52 | Zandose | translates that to mean no |
| 03:40.55 | JademusSreg | Zan, doesn't quite work like that. |
| 03:41.49 | Zandose | but zandose wants a easy method |
| 03:43.01 | JademusSreg | The model data needs the texture field shit, no generic method is doable without support on the data side of it. |
| 03:43.38 | Zandose | someone cant edit the CModel (the base model) to make it easy? |
| 03:44.17 | JademusSreg | The texture paths for all the adaptations and substrings would need to match those on the model assets, so no, not even a little. |
| 03:44.24 | Zandose | ic |
| 03:44.48 | Zandose | what about extracting all the paths and making a list for trigger use? |
| 03:45.35 | JademusSreg | Again, must be defined in the data. Every single model data entry would need their shit defined for the texture fields. |
| 03:45.45 | Zandose | k |
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| 03:55.39 | ArcanePariah | Oh JademusSreg, you might want to make tiberium not buildable, creates issues for workers and balacned :D |
| 03:56.01 | ArcanePariah | buildable = built upon pathing |
| 03:56.44 | JademusSreg | Well, buildings on tiberium will be dissolved by it, sooo |
| 03:57.07 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, but it creates issues for worker trying to get to it, and never being able to |
| 03:57.33 | ArcanePariah | also if you start with a patch right on top of your cc/hatch/nexus, you basically get to play fastest map and easy win |
| 03:58.21 | JademusSreg | Gonna outright replace minerals with tiberium for better balance. |
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| 03:58.36 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so no random patch spawns? |
| 03:58.40 | JademusSreg | Correct. |
| 03:58.51 | JademusSreg | Just wanted to get the first version out asap. |
| 03:59.16 | ArcanePariah | kk, though that creates its own issues. It makes zerglings attacking workers (any early rush) worthlesss |
| 03:59.44 | JademusSreg | Naw, just don't walk directly through the tiberium, easy. =D |
| 03:59.45 | ArcanePariah | Because once a ling touches tiberium, its dead |
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| 04:00.27 | JademusSreg | Also, the life degen is constant, the duration corresponds to exposure time. |
| 04:01.40 | Zandose | is there any way to check if a player is still holding/pressing down a button? |
| 04:01.41 | JademusSreg | Have a new approach to tiberium exposure in mind, will implement when able. |
| 04:02.28 | ArcanePariah | Also, tiberium fundamentally favors air armies, which worked in C/C because air was weak or very expensive |
| 04:02.37 | JademusSreg | Zan, just catch all input events, flag on and off as needed. |
| 04:02.44 | ArcanePariah | Whereas mutas just become even more lulzy :P |
| 04:02.56 | Zandose | boolean? |
| 04:03.43 | JademusSreg | Arc, I just like tiberium, have no expectation of actual balance. =D |
| 04:03.49 | ArcanePariah | :D |
| 04:04.35 | JademusSreg | loves Tiberiums, despises Comannd & Conquer shitty gameplay. |
| 04:04.56 | JademusSreg | *Tiberium |
| 04:04.57 | JademusSreg | HAha |
| 04:04.57 | ArcanePariah | What do you find shitty about it? |
| 04:05.15 | ArcanePariah | Just curious, I have my own thoughts |
| 04:09.44 | JademusSreg | While I was stimulated by its "cool ideas", it seemed to be designed entirely on the basis of "cool ideas" without any overarching, coherent design of how their mechanics would work together. So balance was usually non-existent, meta-game would stagnate as the most (worst) exploitative strategies would dominate. May as well draw ideas out of a hat. |
| 04:12.12 | ArcanePariah | I would agree, and in C&C 3, this was very problematic, it has 3 assymmetric factions like SC2, but with none of the balance, and yes, the inevitable cheese. For a long time, the most powerful way to win as GDI was to mass Sonic Towers... |
| 04:12.41 | ArcanePariah | It makes cannon rushing look like a normal tactic lol |
| 04:14.04 | JademusSreg | Or to draw a comparison, C&C games focus on a diversity of options at the expense of meaning, while Blizz RTS games focus on making all the options available meaningful. |
| 04:14.23 | JademusSreg | C&C is Walmart. |
| 04:15.15 | ArcanePariah | Arguably, that is the core issue of any game design, the problem of choice. How does one present choices, that are different, but relatively equal in meaning and possibility? |
| 04:18.54 | JademusSreg | My default response is "qualitative variation" and "orthogonality", but that's more the mechanical design side. To strike a proper balance between diverse qualities and capability, one must define them (and they must be definable) on equal terms. The term I tend to use is time. |
| 04:35.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 04:35.58 | Bounty | Pew |
| 04:36.09 | JademusSreg | Pooowp. |
| 04:36.20 | Bounty | Well I did it JademusSreg |
| 04:36.21 | Bounty | A completely random galaxy |
| 04:36.27 | Bounty | 100% :) |
| 04:37.04 | Bounty | The lesson I learned from it is, its actually easier to just randomly generate things that place them manually |
| 04:37.07 | Bounty | >.< |
| 04:37.20 | Bounty | then* |
| 04:37.36 | JademusSreg | Hm, wonder who might have mentioned that a year ago, hmmm. |
| 04:37.50 | Bounty | Not sure, I think it was Fockewulf |
| 04:38.01 | Bounty | or Rodrigo |
| 04:38.06 | JademusSreg | Must be. |
| 04:38.09 | Bounty | Certainly it was not you |
| 04:38.14 | Bounty | =P |
| 04:38.16 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 04:38.33 | Bounty | Also it was more recent than a year ago |
| 04:38.45 | Bounty | I think we had that conversation everytime I made a game |
| 04:38.47 | JademusSreg | has no sense of time. |
| 04:39.02 | Bounty | Its the wine |
| 04:39.09 | Bounty | or w/e it is you drink |
| 04:39.28 | Bounty | But yeah, the system I built is nice, its mostly UI though |
| 04:39.35 | Bounty | Still not sure how to generate a random map layout |
| 04:39.41 | Bounty | Will have to learn someday though, quite useful |
| 04:40.04 | JademusSreg | Parameterize. =D |
| 04:40.16 | Bounty | *googles Parameterize* |
| 04:40.31 | Bounty | so, variables? |
| 04:40.41 | Bounty | Which is how I made this system |
| 04:42.38 | Dustin | god damn |
| 04:42.45 | Dustin | Starbound sucks your life away |
| 04:42.49 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 04:42.52 | Bounty | I heard |
| 04:43.01 | Bounty | I tried Terraria, did not like it |
| 04:43.14 | Bounty | Would I like Starbound? |
| 04:43.21 | Dustin | nope |
| 04:43.30 | JademusSreg | Time for me to play some Starbound today. |
| 04:44.56 | Bounty | oh well |
| 04:44.59 | Bounty | sucks for me then |
| 04:45.00 | Bounty | lol |
| 05:01.05 | Bounty | Random thought JademusSreg |
| 05:01.12 | Bounty | More of a question really |
| 05:01.17 | Bounty | If you're there |
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| 06:26.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster XtremeGalaxy (~XtremeGal@197.111.223.235) |
| 06:27.16 | XtremeGalaxy | heloooo |
| 06:27.26 | XtremeGalaxy | need upload help |
| 06:29.43 | XtremeGalaxy | anybody awake / alive ? ^^ |
| 06:36.41 | Zandose | no |
| 06:37.05 | Zandose | and not my field |
| 06:37.20 | XtremeGalaxy | hey man |
| 06:37.23 | Zandose | but i find it nest to explain your problem and maybe someone will see it |
| 06:37.44 | XtremeGalaxy | ok well 1st |
| 06:37.50 | XtremeGalaxy | its just an upload problem |
| 06:38.08 | XtremeGalaxy | map goes to about 70% then |
| 06:38.28 | XtremeGalaxy | stops with a : Upload Error: GATEWAY_HASH_MISMATCH |
| 06:38.44 | XtremeGalaxy | cant find any solution nowhere...wtf |
| 06:38.46 | Zandose | uploading over a prevoius map? |
| 06:38.57 | XtremeGalaxy | no |
| 06:39.09 | XtremeGalaxy | but seen in my download section |
| 06:39.24 | XtremeGalaxy | there are 5 maps listed as space |
| 06:39.31 | XtremeGalaxy | but only 4 avail for dl |
| 06:39.46 | XtremeGalaxy | but you might be right |
| 06:40.16 | XtremeGalaxy | think there is incomplete map in my diskspace |
| 06:40.50 | XtremeGalaxy | hold ill check and send screenshot |
| 06:41.23 | Zandose | not finding much information on it. is sc2 up to date? |
| 06:41.33 | XtremeGalaxy | yea |
| 06:41.52 | Zandose | do you play on one server and upload to another? |
| 06:41.54 | XtremeGalaxy | 2.0.11 |
| 06:42.10 | XtremeGalaxy | not recently, only on EU atm |
| 06:42.31 | Zandose | and your uploading to EU? |
| 06:43.26 | XtremeGalaxy | y |
| 06:44.40 | XtremeGalaxy | but your 1st q seems like the problem |
| 06:44.57 | Zandose | do you have a north amarican version fo EU version of the game? |
| 06:45.04 | Zandose | or* |
| 06:45.23 | XtremeGalaxy | in the publish documents windows, just before starting upload |
| 06:45.31 | XtremeGalaxy | it says i have 6 documents |
| 06:45.37 | XtremeGalaxy | but list only shows 5 |
| 06:46.26 | Zandose | any relation to your probelm? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8518532954 |
| 06:46.51 | XtremeGalaxy | do you know if the dark blue progress bar piece represents the new map, or current data |
| 06:46.51 | XtremeGalaxy | ? |
| 06:47.09 | Zandose | no idea. not my field |
| 06:47.16 | Zandose | im winging it here |
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| 06:52.26 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | back |
| 06:52.32 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | soz lost connection |
| 06:55.28 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | Zandose you there? |
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| 07:00.17 | Zandose | yah |
| 07:00.42 | Zandose | but im out of ideas |
| 07:01.04 | Zandose | oh, do you have a slow connection? |
| 07:01.30 | Zandose | i think theirs a two minute limit to upload a map |
| 07:01.37 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | nah im on HSDPA |
| 07:02.05 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ive even tried to rename the map now |
| 07:02.12 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | with editor and upload tool |
| 07:02.16 | Zandose | someone else help him now |
| 07:02.36 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | thx anyway |
| 07:02.39 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ♥ |
| 07:02.58 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | hi hookah |
| 07:03.48 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | \ Goa |
| 07:05.21 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | any ideas how to trash all uploaded maps? |
| 07:12.34 | G0A | trash? |
| 07:20.23 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | yea like wipe the cache |
| 07:20.38 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i think what Zandose pointed out might be the problem |
| 07:21.24 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | <Zandose> uploading over a prevoius map? |
| 07:23.33 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | can i send you the map and you try uploading |
| 07:23.34 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ? |
| 07:24.07 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | that will eliminate possible local cache issues? |
| 07:29.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster ElectricPrism (~Loren@unaffiliated/electricprism) |
| 07:29.28 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | hi electric |
| 07:31.17 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT A : GATEWAY HASH is? |
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| 07:38.47 | kingTD | nigga nigga nigga |
| 07:43.20 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | hi |
| 07:44.53 | kingTD | helllllllllllllo |
| 07:45.16 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | know what a gateway hash is? |
| 07:46.16 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | im getting an upload error with a gateway hash mismatch ? WTF |
| 07:46.54 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | dont try google, there is nothing about it |
| 07:47.02 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | its a world first ^^ |
| 07:50.47 | JademusSreg | Brack. |
| 07:52.03 | Kueken | Wrelcome brack. |
| 07:53.46 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 07:54.01 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg knows how to splel |
| 07:54.03 | ArcanePariah | :D |
| 07:54.13 | JademusSreg | Any idea what that nonsense up there is about? |
| 07:55.32 | ArcanePariah | Ask yourself, he is still here |
| 07:55.50 | ArcanePariah | Hmm.... guess I should work on my Actor tutorials... |
| 07:56.04 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | yea |
| 07:56.10 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | basically upload prob |
| 07:56.19 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | GATEWAY_HASH_MISMATCH |
| 07:56.25 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | dunno wtf this is about |
| 07:56.30 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ^%^ |
| 07:57.03 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i have renamed the map |
| 07:57.06 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | changed regions |
| 07:57.11 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | multiple regions |
| 07:57.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets) |
| 07:57.19 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | nothing |
| 07:57.25 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | google also useless |
| 07:57.44 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | so i thought id come the the guru's xD |
| 07:58.11 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | someone from blizz here? |
| 07:58.30 | JademusSreg | Using the current patch or the PTR? |
| 07:58.45 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | 2.0.11 |
| 07:58.48 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | current |
| 07:59.03 | JademusSreg | Alright, and what's the name of the map? |
| 07:59.20 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i also checked the dependancies |
| 07:59.26 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | but im only using WoL |
| 07:59.46 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | Galaxy Strike Series |
| 07:59.51 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | basically a 4v4 ds type |
| 08:00.21 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | this prob was from 1st attemp to upload |
| 08:00.40 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | after weeks of terraining |
| 08:01.27 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 08:02.16 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | FYI my other uploads' progress always goes gradually to 100% |
| 08:02.24 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | this one is almost instant 73% |
| 08:02.30 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | then crash |
| 08:02.31 | JademusSreg | Besides a QueenGambit post on bnet 2 years ago, there's no mention of Galaxy Strike. Odd. |
| 08:02.44 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | no no a new map |
| 08:03.24 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | soz if noob in irc, 1st time here |
| 08:04.05 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i even did a ipconfig /flush dns |
| 08:04.15 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | this sux |
| 08:04.34 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | can i send the map file to someone to try upload? |
| 08:05.26 | JademusSreg | I'm digging around, see what I can find. |
| 08:05.26 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | coz i need to upload so as to show what im on about to some ppl who are interested to join project |
| 08:05.38 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | thx thx |
| 08:06.10 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | brb |
| 08:11.58 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | b |
| 08:12.35 | JademusSreg | Have you tested if you can upload other maps? Like, say, an empty mod or something. |
| 08:12.48 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | yea |
| 08:13.53 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | can i send you the map? |
| 08:14.30 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | it only has terrain and a few data edits |
| 08:14.33 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | so far |
| 08:16.59 | JademusSreg | Connection fialed. Try dropbox. |
| 08:17.03 | JademusSreg | Also, failed, haha. |
| 08:17.33 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | hehe |
| 08:18.01 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | dont hav dropbox setup |
| 08:18.12 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | can i mail to some public mail? |
| 08:20.38 | JademusSreg | Question: Was the copy legitimately purchased? For which regions have you attempted uploading? |
| 08:20.58 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ^^ yea, Eu |
| 08:21.13 | JademusSreg | Also, test uploading a different, empty map. |
| 08:21.29 | JademusSreg | If the empty map upload fails, means your map isn't the issue. |
| 08:22.11 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ive done that, others are fine |
| 08:22.17 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | http://speedy.sh/27dHY/GalaxyStrike.SC2Map |
| 08:22.39 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | here you go |
| 08:25.35 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | can you get? |
| 08:26.08 | JademusSreg | Don't see anything strange in the map. |
| 08:26.22 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | thats good |
| 08:26.45 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | sory if a bit messy atm, very beta |
| 08:28.07 | JademusSreg | When you say you've uploaded files before, when did you upload these others specifically? |
| 08:29.03 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i did a test upload in this week - success |
| 08:29.10 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | others in prev pathes |
| 08:29.14 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | a while ago |
| 08:29.24 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | patches* |
| 08:29.48 | JademusSreg | It would be most informative if you tested uploading an empty file today. =D |
| 08:29.49 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | you can find Photon Defenders 1 + 3 |
| 08:29.55 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | and Black Survival |
| 08:30.05 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | ok hold on |
| 08:30.07 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i do it now |
| 08:31.04 | JademusSreg | Additionally, just in case and however unlikely, want to make sure you're not using a program like this: http://sfsrealm.hopto.org/downloads/BnGateEdit.html |
| 08:33.38 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | AHA |
| 08:33.43 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | same prob |
| 08:33.52 | JademusSreg | Yep, not the map. |
| 08:34.07 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | can you still upload for me public? plz |
| 08:34.35 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | in EU |
| 08:34.50 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | dont lock also |
| 08:34.57 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i dont mind sharing ^^ |
| 08:36.24 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | no i never used this before |
| 08:36.29 | JademusSreg | Ah, nope, but sounds like your battlenet gateways are either misconfigured or the connection is otherwise blocked. For instance, if you're behind a firewall (either on the local machine or for your network). |
| 08:37.03 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | no firewall im aware of |
| 08:37.12 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | using phones hsdpa for inet |
| 08:37.34 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i must mention |
| 08:37.50 | JademusSreg | Or, it could be an issue on Blizzard's end. |
| 08:37.52 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | along time ago when blizz announced the free region |
| 08:38.01 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i connected to US |
| 08:38.02 | JademusSreg | In which case one needs to just wait it out. |
| 08:38.12 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | and it refudsed my password |
| 08:38.22 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i then connected back to EU and same |
| 08:38.52 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i had to login to US bnet and reset password |
| 08:39.13 | JademusSreg | Also, if the upload time exceeds around a minute or two (because of a massive upload), that will also fail. |
| 08:39.16 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | maybe it messed up something for the editor also |
| 08:39.26 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | i heard yea |
| 08:39.40 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | but fails within few seconds |
| 08:39.44 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | like 20-30 |
| 08:40.13 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | is there a tool of somesort to check gateway config? |
| 08:40.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 08:41.59 | JademusSreg | Well, find the ip to which it connects or attempts to (using a process or network profiler, or by finding it with a search), and traceroute. |
| 08:42.08 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 08:43.00 | [Xtreme]Galaxy | k |
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| 09:09.13 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 09:09.18 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 09:09.21 | ArcanePariah | Hey Renee |
| 09:09.28 | ArcanePariah | Sup JademusSreg |
| 09:09.32 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 09:09.38 | ArcanePariah | question for you, why must it be so cold? |
| 09:09.49 | ArcanePariah | 40 F outside... grr... |
| 09:10.22 | ArcanePariah | Also, by any chance can you string dump the PTR tooltips? |
| 09:10.23 | JademusSreg | Weather spirits. |
| 09:10.31 | ArcanePariah | The new actor tooltips |
| 09:10.59 | JademusSreg | I've got string dumps of the client and editor, but this is altogether simpler. |
| 09:11.04 | ArcanePariah | Because I'm no way going to try to copy paste type them, since (thankfully) they are super lonnnnng |
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| 09:11.44 | ArcanePariah | Mostly want to add them to the wiki, should be useful |
| 09:12.07 | ArcanePariah | But also want to just look at them and think about what they can be used for now |
| 09:12.29 | ArcanePariah | If we are lucky, they add more in before 2.1 release, but I think not sadly |
| 09:13.14 | XtremeGalaxy | still no avail.... *o* |
| 09:13.21 | XtremeGalaxy | (crying) |
| 09:14.07 | XtremeGalaxy | @JademusSreg : can you plz upload for me? |
| 09:14.13 | XtremeGalaxy | plz plz plz |
| 09:17.51 | JademusSreg | Arc: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/enUS%20editor%20hints.7z |
| 09:18.25 | JademusSreg | Xtr, I'm not the sort of person to upload maps for other people. =D |
| 09:18.52 | ArcanePariah | tyvm JademusSreg |
| 09:20.21 | JademusSreg | File sizes for ActorHints.txt before? 5 KB. After? 33 KB. |
| 09:20.27 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... |
| 09:20.31 | ArcanePariah | They put a TON in |
| 09:20.37 | ArcanePariah | and super descriptive |
| 09:20.57 | JademusSreg | ActorSupportHints is now 35 KB. =D |
| 09:20.59 | ArcanePariah | I'm curious as to what the Curve Actor is |
| 09:21.07 | ArcanePariah | They added multiple actor messages for it |
| 09:21.38 | ArcanePariah | It is almost like it a unified actor for doing a blend of actions to an actor |
| 09:22.04 | ArcanePariah | Like if you wanted to do psychadelic coloring, a Curve actor could do it |
| 09:22.32 | ArcanePariah | Some of the best fields described is the time scaling, and the scopes |
| 09:22.51 | ArcanePariah | Now there is a through explaination of scopes, and what each ones means |
| 09:22.58 | JademusSreg | Think Bezier curve transitions. =D |
| 09:23.10 | ArcanePariah | Not familiar with that |
| 09:23.41 | JademusSreg | Think CSS transition { ease-in-ease-out; } |
| 09:24.16 | ArcanePariah | Yes but you could already do that with regular set Color (as now described in the new tooltips, the Bounce blend did that) |
| 09:25.23 | ArcanePariah | But those are smooth transistions, uniform, linear, I think curve actors allow other variants of transitions, like instant in, slow then fast then slow out |
| 09:25.31 | JademusSreg | I should have a screenshot of my bezier curve function being used to draw a curve. |
| 09:26.22 | ArcanePariah | If I'm understanding things correctly, references are basically variables for actors, scopes are the same as coding scopes |
| 09:26.47 | JademusSreg | Pretty much. |
| 09:27.07 | JademusSreg | Using the actor-related commands are helpful for understanding actors. |
| 09:27.19 | ArcanePariah | And also, sending actor messages implicitly send the sending actor as a parameters |
| 09:27.25 | Kueken | while we are at the topic: What exactly does the ::Host reference point at? |
| 09:27.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Parthon (~cheeeese@godsta.arach.net.au) |
| 09:27.32 | ArcanePariah | The host actor |
| 09:27.38 | Kueken | which is...? |
| 09:27.48 | JademusSreg | actordumplive for instance will show all scene contexts, and their actor scopes and actors and subs. |
| 09:27.55 | ArcanePariah | Excellent question, which the new tooltips explain |
| 09:28.09 | ArcanePariah | When an actor is created, the Host is usually itself |
| 09:28.26 | ArcanePariah | However if it was created by another actor with create message, the host would be the creating actor |
| 09:28.34 | ArcanePariah | However, both can be manipulated |
| 09:28.42 | Kueken | thats strange |
| 09:28.46 | Kueken | for example |
| 09:29.02 | Kueken | if I use an actor message to set site operations dynamically |
| 09:29.17 | Kueken | HostSetSiteOp or something like that |
| 09:29.28 | Kueken | I need to reference the host |
| 09:29.35 | Kueken | it works with ::Host |
| 09:30.01 | Kueken | however, if what you said is true, ::Host should be replaceable by other references to the main actor |
| 09:30.14 | Kueken | like ::Main, _Selectable, or just the ID of the actor |
| 09:30.23 | Kueken | (in case of a standard unit actor) |
| 09:30.29 | ArcanePariah | No, because none of those are in the same scope I believe |
| 09:30.34 | JademusSreg | Since I can't find my cute little example image, here's the script. https://pastee.org/msadm |
| 09:30.41 | ArcanePariah | You would have to alter the scope to make the others work |
| 09:30.45 | Kueken | o_0 |
| 09:30.57 | Kueken | ::Main references the main actor of the current scope |
| 09:31.03 | Kueken | and works in any other context |
| 09:31.13 | ArcanePariah | Or set the External Finder flag for the main unit actor (which allows it to be sent message outside scope according to the new tooltip) |
| 09:31.47 | Kueken | so the host actor uses a different scope than the actor scope defined by the unit? o_0 |
| 09:32.27 | ArcanePariah | Well... who is sending the create message for the siteops? |
| 09:33.02 | ArcanePariah | Is the siteop itself creating itself based on a event? |
| 09:33.04 | Kueken | no idea, if I use HostSetSiteop, probably the main unit actor |
| 09:33.35 | Kueken | siteops cannot create themselves with an event, as far as I am aware |
| 09:33.41 | ArcanePariah | Ok |
| 09:33.44 | Kueken | at least I tried that |
| 09:33.57 | ArcanePariah | So the Unit actor has an Event -> Create HostSiteOp? |
| 09:34.05 | Kueken | no |
| 09:34.12 | Kueken | Event -> HostSetSiteOp |
| 09:34.19 | Kueken | its a seperate message |
| 09:34.55 | Kueken | HostSiteOpSet |
| 09:36.22 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/PLWQ8YPH |
| 09:36.31 | Kueken | that would be the relevant events |
| 09:37.12 | Kueken | the example is a little different, but anyway |
| 09:37.50 | Kueken | I could not use any different reference than ::Host without producing an error message |
| 09:38.01 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, what happends when you remove the target info? |
| 09:38.18 | ArcanePariah | and then let the Host Name be blank? |
| 09:38.34 | Kueken | even though from my understanding of ::Host and your explanation I assumed you could replace ::Host with other references pointing at the same actor |
| 09:38.49 | Kueken | blank host name = error message |
| 09:39.20 | ArcanePariah | Even with target left blank? |
| 09:41.10 | Kueken | yes |
| 09:41.56 | Kueken | <On Terms="ActorCreation" Send="HostSiteOpsSet {} SOpRandomPointInCircle1Dot5"/> |
| 09:42.07 | Kueken | I did put that on a marine |
| 09:42.29 | Kueken | blank: "Cannot set site ops on host" error |
| 09:42.39 | Kueken | ::Host works fine |
| 09:43.10 | ArcanePariah | Then I get that message only accepts the ::Host reference and no other |
| 09:43.15 | ArcanePariah | guess* |
| 09:43.27 | Kueken | that would be plausible, but boring |
| 09:43.52 | Kueken | my far more exciting guess was, that ::Host actually points at a different actor |
| 09:44.40 | Kueken | but well |
| 09:44.58 | JademusSreg | Hm, I was under the impression multiple extension mods could be employed per custom game. |
| 09:45.00 | Kueken | any tooltips on that particular problem? |
| 09:45.28 | Kueken | Jade: you cannot? |
| 09:45.35 | Kueken | well, might be hard to handle compatibility |
| 09:45.50 | JademusSreg | Didn't see anything in the interface indicating sucj. |
| 09:45.52 | JademusSreg | *such |
| 09:46.38 | ArcanePariah | You can't, but nothing stops you from including other extension mods as dependencies in your own |
| 09:46.51 | ArcanePariah | So you could combine a few into indirectly |
| 09:46.59 | JademusSreg | Yeah, but that is significantly less convenient from a player perspective. |
| 09:47.08 | ArcanePariah | True |
| 09:47.09 | Kueken | true |
| 09:47.23 | Kueken | small true vs Big True |
| 09:47.24 | ArcanePariah | But look it at from the perspective of those trying to find a game |
| 09:47.26 | Kueken | who wins |
| 09:47.45 | JademusSreg | Depends on the language, Kueken. |
| 09:47.49 | ArcanePariah | Allowing multiple mods to be combined would lead to many players making their own combination... and having no one to play with the exact same mods |
| 09:47.53 | Kueken | anyway, Jade, any input at the ::Host conundrum |
| 09:47.55 | Kueken | ? |
| 09:48.17 | JademusSreg | What is the conundrum? Or rather, what is it state concisely? |
| 09:48.21 | JademusSreg | *stated |
| 09:48.28 | ArcanePariah | Better to just let evolution of a sorts take care of the issue, a poor mod when mixed with another poor mod, may lead to a superior mod |
| 09:49.02 | ArcanePariah | Although mods can be locked just like maps |
| 09:49.19 | Kueken | Alright. I assumed, the ::Host reference would point to the main actor of the scope in most cases |
| 09:49.36 | Kueken | like for a unit scope, the ::Host reference would point to the main unit actor |
| 09:49.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip174-68-90-32.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 09:50.34 | Kueken | leading to the assumption it would be freely interchangeable with other references, like ::Main or, if applicable, an alias or just the ID of the main actor |
| 09:51.30 | Kueken | however, when working with the HostSiteOpsSet message, I noticed, it only accepts ::Host for the Host Name field |
| 09:52.06 | Kueken | it malfunctions/produces error messages when left blank or using ::Main, _Selectable or the ID of the main unit actor instead of ::Host |
| 09:52.55 | Kueken | leading to our 2 guesses, that it either is hardcoded to only accept the ::Host message for this field, or the ::Host reference does not point to the main unit actor. |
| 09:53.37 | JademusSreg | Ah, no. |
| 09:53.38 | Kueken | sufficient explanation of the problem? |
| 09:53.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster rts (~rtschutte@ip174-68-90-32.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 09:54.27 | JademusSreg | I'm attempting to find a specific dump I performed that illustrates this, but may need to settle for a less than excellent paste. |
| 09:56.07 | Kueken | less than excellent seems sufficient, as long as it contains information :) |
| 09:56.12 | ArcanePariah | Oh JademusSreg, the new tooltips include one that explicitly lays out the base CAbil object. Interestingly enough, it goes on describe how it itself can never be directly used, but can be created as a parent object |
| 09:56.31 | ArcanePariah | So the CAbil object apparently is an interface class of sorts |
| 09:57.04 | ArcanePariah | I'm assuming the tooltips/hints found in your dump are all ones that were either added or modified? |
| 09:57.43 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/np98m |
| 09:58.03 | JademusSreg | Now find host in the paste. |
| 09:58.27 | JademusSreg | It should clear things up (assuming I understand your issue). |
| 09:59.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster XtremeGalaxy (~XtremeGal@197.111.223.236) |
| 09:59.15 | JademusSreg | *Host (in case your find function is case aware). |
| 09:59.19 | Kueken | I only see the selection models attached to their respective host unit actors |
| 09:59.42 | JademusSreg | Yes. Now suppose those selection actors in turn created other actors. |
| 10:00.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster [Xtreme]Galaxy (~XtremeGal@197.111.223.236) |
| 10:00.47 | Kueken | I don't follow |
| 10:01.09 | XtremeGalaxy | would somone be willing to upload a map for plz |
| 10:01.22 | ArcanePariah | JademusSreg, where would I see the Entry Hints? |
| 10:01.32 | ArcanePariah | Not sure where they are supposed to appear |
| 10:02.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster miushock (3288f43c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.136.244.60) |
| 10:02.15 | XtremeGalaxy | a friend tried but he a bit noob on editor |
| 10:02.16 | JademusSreg | It's the difference between using $root and $parent tokens in UI layouts. Main and Host would only be equal when there's not a host structure. |
| 10:02.18 | miushock | anyone still online? |
| 10:02.28 | JademusSreg | "Entry" hints? |
| 10:02.43 | XtremeGalaxy | many online ^^ |
| 10:02.46 | miushock | ah hi jade so nice to see you, i'm here to annoy you again |
| 10:02.51 | ArcanePariah | EDSTR_ENTRYHINT_CAbilProgress=The base class for all abilities that display a single progress bar including Buildable, Mergeable, and Warpable. |
| 10:02.57 | miushock | or anyone has experience with progress bar |
| 10:03.17 | Kueken | but if I use ::Main or ::Host within the main unit actor, they should always be equivalent by that logic, no? |
| 10:03.22 | XtremeGalaxy | what about progress? |
| 10:03.25 | miushock | i'm trying to make a progress bar that filled from left to right, or bottom up |
| 10:03.28 | miushock | any idea on this? |
| 10:03.46 | JademusSreg | Unless the unit actor is created by something else, haha. |
| 10:04.05 | ArcanePariah | miushock, if you are making dialogs, you need to set the min, max and current value of the dialog |
| 10:04.08 | XtremeGalaxy | do you mean to span across the screen or? |
| 10:04.39 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 10:04.53 | ArcanePariah | If you want from bottom up... you will probably have to resort to the crude method of creating a image and adjusting its height as neeeded |
| 10:05.06 | Kueken | Jade, if i put this: <On Terms="ActorCreation" Send="HostSiteOpsSet ::Host SOpRandomPointInCircle1Dot5"/> directly on a unit actor, it works |
| 10:05.18 | miushock | i saw there is a rotation method for dialog items |
| 10:05.18 | Kueken | but replacing ::Host with ::Main causes error messages |
| 10:05.26 | miushock | but that seems not working for 'progress bar' item |
| 10:05.57 | XtremeGalaxy | youll have to "cheat" as Arcane suggested |
| 10:06.09 | miushock | hmm what about right to left? |
| 10:06.32 | miushock | any 'non cheat' way of doing that? |
| 10:06.36 | ArcanePariah | If it is a progress bar dialog item, it should be simply Set Dialog Item Max Value, then the same for Min Value and then Current Value |
| 10:07.09 | XtremeGalaxy | yes but he prob wants it to be transparent where empty |
| 10:07.11 | ArcanePariah | As for right to left, you can do an inverse |
| 10:07.25 | ArcanePariah | Basically work a progress bar backwards |
| 10:07.37 | ArcanePariah | And change the fill color/empty colors |
| 10:08.02 | ArcanePariah | So set progress bar current value = max value - whatever value you are working with |
| 10:08.06 | miushock | so i need to alter the front and background color that way? |
| 10:08.09 | miushock | ok |
| 10:08.30 | miushock | that's a good approach to try i think |
| 10:08.47 | miushock | thx for the quick hint arcane |
| 10:11.42 | XtremeGalaxy | cya guys later, hav to keep the misses happy for a bit... |
| 10:19.36 | JademusSreg | Kueken, what is the error message? |
| 10:20.30 | Kueken | "Cannot set site ops on host (name)" |
| 10:20.45 | Kueken | (name) being ::Main or whatever replacement for ::Host I enter |
| 10:20.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 10:22.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (322e8dd1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.46.141.209) |
| 10:23.26 | DeadZergling | well movies don't get much more serious than the one I just finished..... Santa Claus Conquers the Martians |
| 10:27.02 | Zolden | santa claus rapes children with coca cola bottles |
| 10:27.07 | DeadZergling | gotta love B movies from the 70s or 80s |
| 10:28.11 | JademusSreg | Yeah, did some double checking, and there's no discernable reason why that shouldn't work. ::Main is used for receivers, subjects, targets, typically by actors which create themselves in a scope instead of created by an actor in the scope. |
| 10:29.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (proprietar@216.131.104.146) |
| 10:29.14 | Ownage | I've got an odd problem, with transfer behavior effects |
| 10:29.20 | Ownage | anyone have experience with these? |
| 10:31.18 | JademusSreg | So it's not clear why that particular usage would be invalid. =D |
| 10:32.24 | JademusSreg | Own, no need to preface an issue with such a question. |
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| 10:35.04 | JademusSreg | Kueken, fortunately, it's clear that ::Main works where one would expect it to work, which is to say where ::Host would return null or an actor in a different scope. |
| 10:35.20 | DeadZergling | by the way Zolden, just because Santa Claus does these things in Russia, does not mean he does them everywhere. |
| 10:36.12 | Kueken | yeah |
| 10:36.34 | Ownage | JademusSreg, can you take a look: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=AE0zGH2T |
| 10:36.38 | Zolden | DeadZergling in russia there is no such thing as santa claus |
| 10:36.57 | DeadZergling | You seem to know of him well, so I believe you not. |
| 10:37.02 | Ownage | that's the xml of the behaviors, the trigger section for testing, the expected result and actual result |
| 10:37.31 | Kueken | well, santa lost a curling match against god, thats why he has to deliver gifts. Usually he just kills people instead |
| 10:37.35 | Ownage | the short description is I am trying to clone the stack counts of these behaviors using transfer behavior effects, but for some reason it actually removes the attribute itself |
| 10:37.57 | JademusSreg | eah, "transfer". |
| 10:37.59 | Ownage | note that even if I pre-place the attribute on the unit, it still is removed somehow, even though it still displays in the info tab |
| 10:38.01 | JademusSreg | *Yeah |
| 10:38.04 | Kueken | Zolden: its father frost or something like that right? |
| 10:38.05 | DeadZergling | that's when he isn't forced to do slave labor in the UFO factory |
| 10:38.20 | Ownage | don't be so quick, read it again |
| 10:38.28 | Ownage | I'm talking about the TARGET loses the attribute |
| 10:38.49 | Ownage | source has attribute, target has or does not have attribute, either way after transfer the target doesn't have attribute |
| 10:39.05 | Zolden | DeadZergling russian version of santa claus has sex partner, his grand daughter, so he doesn't need to use coca cola bottles to rape children http://samara.rublepost.ru/images/2011/12/11/14621/novogodniy-prazdnik_1.jpg |
| 10:39.23 | Zolden | Kueken yea |
| 10:39.29 | Kueken | btw, my version was the plot of an amusing b-movie called Santa Slay |
| 10:39.41 | Kueken | if anyone knows it |
| 10:39.55 | Kueken | (might be Santa's Slay) |
| 10:39.57 | JademusSreg | Own, how does it behave if you attempt to do the same with Buffs? |
| 10:40.09 | DeadZergling | as usual, zolden sees sex in everything |
| 10:40.24 | Ownage | the buffs work |
| 10:40.32 | Ownage | note these do the buffs and attributes |
| 10:40.48 | Ownage | the buffs transfer, and the attribute even shows the points |
| 10:40.53 | Kueken | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa%27s_Slay |
| 10:40.59 | Ownage | but somehow the attribute is magically gone if I check it |
| 10:41.51 | Ownage | even if I preplace the attribute. I have two units, one which has the attribute natively and one which doesn't, and they still both end up 'not having it' even though it shows in info panel |
| 10:42.43 | JademusSreg | Does it behave the same if the unit doesn't have the attribute? Does it behave the same without the copy flag? |
| 10:42.52 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 10:43.16 | Ownage | it's definitely going in the right direction, it's a fairly closed environment for checking |
| 10:43.27 | JademusSreg | Does it behave the same with other kinds of non-Buff behaviors, such as Resource? |
| 10:44.16 | DeadZergling | I see Kueken, it said an Angel though |
| 10:45.41 | Ownage | if I slow it down quite a bit by making it wait I can see actually it looks like it does get them and then magically loses them and then gets them again somehow.. very weird |
| 10:45.51 | Ownage | this is on a loop, repeating over and over basically |
| 10:46.36 | JademusSreg | Own, it sounds -possibly- like a genuine bug. But I don't know what the rest of the effect tree looks like. |
| 10:47.34 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 10:47.41 | Ownage | alright I'll look deeper thanks |
| 10:56.37 | DeadZergling | well so much for learning movers more |
| 10:56.42 | DeadZergling | gotta watch Santa's Slay now |
| 11:10.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.111.228) |
| 11:15.54 | Zolden | what's angle of angel? |
| 11:17.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-141.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 11:18.19 | JademusSreg | 180 |
| 11:20.19 | Zolden | thought so, same as for superman |
| 11:29.34 | JademusSreg | Hm, think I'll make my Damage Tracker into a mod. I imagine some people might enjoy that. |
| 11:50.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@HSI-KBW-149-172-117-81.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 11:51.11 | Zolden | what if player group has play 1 and we add play 1 once more, will it have 2 player 1's? |
| 11:52.08 | Zolden | also, can we add player 5463 to a player group? |
| 11:52.14 | Zolden | and can it have 34573567 players? |
| 11:52.48 | JademusSreg | Excellent question. Ridiculous, but excellent. |
| 11:53.46 | Zolden | from outside player group looks like a dynamic array of integer with iterator and search |
| 11:54.25 | Zolden | if it's not a 16 bit word |
| 11:54.47 | Zolden | then it could be used for general purposes |
| 11:54.53 | JademusSreg | Playergroups are probably managed such that redundant elements are removed. |
| 11:55.50 | JademusSreg | Naw, wouldn't be a 16-bit word. 32-bit word is more likely (and as I recall 32 is referenced somewhere in the data or script). |
| 11:56.43 | JademusSreg | So a single int and bitwise ops would easily cover all playergroup functionality. |
| 11:56.57 | Zolden | what about unit group? |
| 11:57.05 | Zolden | is it not an array of int? |
| 11:57.15 | JademusSreg | PlayerGroupAddGroup is simply a | b |
| 11:58.16 | Zolden | yea, if player group is a word of bits, all its operations are like this |
| 11:58.27 | JademusSreg | A unitgroup is a 32-bit reference to a data structure of 32-bit unit references, iirc. |
| 11:59.17 | Zolden | sounds like array of int |
| 11:59.24 | JademusSreg | I could probably find the specific data structure type by checking the client dump, but it's not important. |
| 12:00.08 | Zolden | my only question is: if there a way to use any kind of group as a dynamic array |
| 12:00.11 | JademusSreg | Well, could be important. Depends on what you're doing with it. |
| 12:00.17 | JademusSreg | Ah, yes. |
| 12:00.44 | JademusSreg | But why both when using DataTable accomplishes the same ends more efficiently? |
| 12:00.48 | JademusSreg | *why bother |
| 12:01.01 | Zolden | realy? |
| 12:01.05 | Zolden | never used |
| 12:01.17 | Zolden | well, if so then alright |
| 12:01.41 | JademusSreg | Which is why people should ask me such things. =D |
| 12:01.57 | Zolden | yea |
| 12:02.01 | JademusSreg | DataTable API: https://pastee.org/k3e7f |
| 12:02.27 | JademusSreg | I'll explain how shit works. |
| 12:03.14 | JademusSreg | The bool parameter is either true for global scope, or false for thread scope. |
| 12:04.37 | Zolden | what's "bool global"? |
| 12:04.38 | JademusSreg | If false, data table key-entry pairs added from the thread are removed once the thread expires. |
| 12:04.50 | G0A | whaaa, your map is now 3rd most popular on EU zolden, btw what are you trying to do with data tables? |
| 12:05.01 | JademusSreg | For example: DataTableSetAbilCmd (bool global, string name, abilcmd val); |
| 12:06.13 | Zolden | G0A oh, cool |
| 12:06.23 | Zolden | G0A jsut curious |
| 12:06.34 | Zolden | JademusSreg oh, i see, what a nice thing |
| 12:06.52 | Zolden | so, instead of creating a variable, I put shit into data table |
| 12:06.54 | JademusSreg | The string name parameter is simply a string key. With good formatting and use of string-int conversions, one can create abstract arrays. |
| 12:07.31 | JademusSreg | And even entire abstract data structures. |
| 12:07.49 | G0A | Zolden though it will cost more processing power to put into datatable than varaiible |
| 12:07.55 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 12:08.16 | JademusSreg | DataTable usage should be used only when dynamic memory allocation is necessary. |
| 12:09.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@ip-2-206-112-122.web.vodafone.de) |
| 12:09.11 | G0A | or when you store more than 8000 variables or want more than 4 arrays |
| 12:09.19 | JademusSreg | Banks may be used similarly; don't need to load/save them to enjoy the benefits. |
| 12:09.59 | G0A | Zolden in Final Frontier map I save all the tech and ship design information into datatables... |
| 12:11.22 | Zolden | and what ime is neeed to access datatable entry by index? 1 or n? |
| 12:11.59 | JademusSreg | Clarify your usage? |
| 12:12.32 | G0A | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/triggers/38191-info-data-table-limit/#p1 |
| 12:13.11 | JademusSreg | A bit old, Goa. =D |
| 12:13.39 | G0A | yeah |
| 12:13.43 | Zolden | how datatable organized inside, are they an array or something else? if an item access by index takes N time, it makes the whole thing less awesome |
| 12:13.44 | G0A | but probably true |
| 12:14.03 | JademusSreg | Zol, lrn ur data structures. |
| 12:14.39 | JademusSreg | It's Table, most likely a HashTable. |
| 12:15.28 | Zolden | so, access time is 1? |
| 12:16.28 | G0A | JademusSreg yeah Ahli calculations show that it must be HashTable.. |
| 12:16.41 | JademusSreg | Assuming it's hashtable, the number of entries supported would then be limited by the hash function. Otherwise, it's logical limit would be defined by the int index. |
| 12:18.25 | JademusSreg | *its |
| 12:20.51 | Zolden | so, this |
| 12:20.52 | Zolden | string DataTableValueName(bool global, int index); |
| 12:21.00 | Zolden | and any get |
| 12:21.11 | Zolden | takes 1 time to get the value? |
| 12:22.30 | JademusSreg | Your terms are a bit off. More accurately to say O(1), for computational complexity, and/or constant time. |
| 12:23.00 | Zolden | ea, it's waht i mean |
| 12:23.11 | JademusSreg | And yes, it should be constant. |
| 12:23.23 | Zolden | good |
| 12:25.13 | JademusSreg | Nearly all the data table natives should be O(1), both galaxy side and engine side, but that's not the same as saying they are "fast". (They are, however, much faster than Catalog ops) |
| 12:26.30 | Zolden | and why catalog operations are slower? |
| 12:28.02 | JademusSreg | Sooo much more data, and catalog changes are stored in a separate table. |
| 12:30.48 | Zolden | alright, thanks for the excursus |
| 12:30.53 | Zolden | should be useful sometimes |
| 12:32.59 | Zolden | just one thing: how many times it's faster to assign a variable or to put the value into data table? |
| 12:34.32 | Zolden | oh, and another thing: can local data table entries use the names of the golbal ones? |
| 12:34.33 | JademusSreg | Last time I tested, a data table op is about 5 times slower than all operations on native types/structures. |
| 12:35.28 | Zolden | i mean, if i set something with name "1" globally and then locally, will it rewrite? |
| 12:35.41 | JademusSreg | (since get/set to global, local, parameter, whether singular, array, or struct are all about the same) |
| 12:36.03 | JademusSreg | No, it definitely shouldn't, but that is also a silly thing to do. |
| 12:37.38 | Zolden | so, global and local areas are completely different and don't sahre "name" spaces? |
| 12:38.16 | JademusSreg | I expect it would spit an error at you for attempting to shadow a global. |
| 12:38.18 | Zolden | and if i set "a" globally, it wno't exist locally? |
| 12:38.35 | Zolden | oh, so they do intersect? |
| 12:38.36 | Bommes | is there any reason to use the data table at all then? |
| 12:39.28 | JademusSreg | Well, it is global, afterall. The opposite doesn't make much sense. |
| 12:39.30 | Zolden | I'd use it in a situation where I may need unknown amount of elements |
| 12:39.45 | Zolden | to avoid creating a huge array |
| 12:39.50 | JademusSreg | Shadowing is bad; don't do it. |
| 12:39.55 | JademusSreg | Enough said. |
| 12:39.57 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 12:40.01 | JademusSreg | Bom, yes. |
| 12:40.23 | Zolden | i don't know "bad", i only want to know if it spossible or not |
| 12:40.26 | Bommes | I think if you shadow a global it will just use the local variable |
| 12:40.36 | Bommes | although I'm not sure |
| 12:40.48 | Bommes | probably the GUI just uses different names, so no idea what happens in script |
| 12:40.50 | JademusSreg | "Bad" in the sense that it's confusing, even where it isn't possible. |
| 12:41.37 | Zolden | what so confusing about using same name for global nd local stuff when namespaces are se p arated |
| 12:41.50 | *** part/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 12:42.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:1680:60a:f66d:4ff:fe93:2e29) |
| 12:42.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 12:42.30 | Bommes | to go on a tangent about the data table though, what would be an application that you would use it for Jade? |
| 12:42.34 | Zolden | crap, cat jumping all over the keyboard |
| 12:43.19 | JademusSreg | Imagine what it would be like to read said code. Like entering an exotic, foreign land, one should hope some features are familiar even if the language is altogether different. |
| 12:43.46 | JademusSreg | Bom, I have an example with some admitted outdated code I'm refactoring. |
| 12:44.42 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/3gmkb |
| 12:45.05 | JademusSreg | 2 year old code, haha. |
| 12:45.41 | JademusSreg | Example of output: https://pastee.org/nchpa |
| 12:45.49 | Bommes | ah yeah |
| 12:45.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (~scraft@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:47.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (proprietar@216.131.104.146) |
| 12:47.25 | Ownage | I think I just figured out what something does that says unknown on the wiki |
| 12:47.32 | Ownage | can someone independently verify |
| 12:47.35 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 12:47.51 | Ownage | http://www.sc2mapster.com/wiki/galaxy/data/validators/unit-compare-behavior-count/ -> "Validator - Other Unit - Unit" |
| 12:48.02 | Ownage | on that page it says unknown function |
| 12:48.29 | JademusSreg | Note: that thing is so outdated, it's basically not maintained. |
| 12:48.35 | JademusSreg | Like evar. |
| 12:48.48 | Ownage | lames |
| 12:48.53 | JademusSreg | Instead: http://wiki.sc2mapster.com/Main_Page |
| 12:49.07 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 12:49.24 | Ownage | I also found a solution to my problem, though I don't know why it's a solutino |
| 12:49.54 | JademusSreg | Own, ya know what they say about science and witchcraft. =D |
| 12:49.59 | JademusSreg | brb++ |
| 12:50.22 | Ownage | when I switch the ... switch order |
| 12:50.30 | Ownage | make it do buffs then attributes, it works |
| 12:50.36 | Ownage | attributes then buffs, does not work |
| 12:50.46 | Ownage | that page has close to nothing on it :/ |
| 12:53.50 | Bommes | Hmm, if an upgrade changes the field value of a specific entry in the data editor, does that change also happen in the catalog field that you get with the catalog functions? |
| 12:54.32 | JademusSreg | (Yes) |
| 12:55.05 | Ownage | man, doing stuff in data that you used to do in triggers is somehow... very satisfying |
| 12:55.10 | Bommes | S a weapon has range 5, but it gets upgraded to range 8, then the get catalog value function returns 8? |
| 12:55.15 | Bommes | *So |
| 13:03.36 | Ownage | donno, check it out |
| 13:03.46 | Ownage | make sure you're checking the right player too |
| 13:04.38 | Bommes | yeah it does work like that, no need to answer :) Just wanted to double check if there were any communication errors in my initial question which are all too frequent for. |
| 13:04.45 | Bommes | *for me |
| 13:06.50 | Ownage | keep in mind depending on whatever you're doing, you can also upgrade per unit by swapping weapon or just using a behavior |
| 13:07.01 | Ownage | man I'm excited, finally making headway |
| 13:07.29 | Bommes | I'm not doing anything with it, I was just answering a question about it in the forums. |
| 13:09.44 | G0A | Zolden Player asks who puts sheep under rocks.... |
| 13:09.55 | JademusSreg | already said Yes. |
| 13:09.57 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 13:45.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (jifengxian@60.166.111.228) |
| 13:47.07 | Zolden | G0A there's a cave, I guess... wild sheep were hiding there from humans, who tend to eat them |
| 13:58.27 | G0A | Zolden you can have custom vlue per unit. (better than adding stupid behaviors:D) |
| 13:58.34 | JademusSreg | =\ |
| 13:59.14 | JademusSreg | Goa, hope you don't intend to convince him to use units instead of DataTable. =F |
| 13:59.17 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 14:00.05 | G0A | haha |
| 14:00.06 | kingTD | Zolden nice balance 9 wave 1566a4a654f6a54f6a51f6a516a5f465 reapers = gg |
| 14:00.07 | G0A | nope |
| 14:03.27 | Kueken | thats quite some reapers, if you have to display the count in hex :D |
| 14:05.08 | Zolden | G0A yea, jsut behaviors feel more object oriented |
| 14:05.33 | JademusSreg | Had me worried. =D |
| 14:05.41 | A1win | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcx90jyi8x8 |
| 14:05.53 | A1win | bugged pathing stuff |
| 14:06.05 | Zolden | JademusSreg thw world is less insane that you think it is |
| 14:06.26 | Zolden | G0A and reapers were nerfed, they are weak now, it's just noobs die of anything |
| 14:07.00 | A1win | ah some old stuff |
| 14:08.19 | JademusSreg | I don't think the world is insane. The universe, however, is idiotic. |
| 14:09.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (Raziel@31.220.209.63) |
| 14:09.27 | JademusSreg | Unrelated, here's a little excerpt of my current shenanigans. https://pastee.org/urdgv |
| 14:11.21 | G0A | Zolden Reapers are imba... |
| 14:13.33 | Kueken | Jade: ugly as usual |
| 14:13.33 | Zolden | ;/ |
| 14:13.33 | Zolden | ok |
| 14:14.06 | JademusSreg | ♥ |
| 14:14.58 | kingTD | 1 ranged > 1a65f465q4f66f15112f611f65w1f6qw1fqwf5615f6151f65112f65112f65 melee units send |
| 14:15.03 | Kueken | what does "profiling the performance" refer to? |
| 14:15.28 | Kueken | performance as in cpu or as in player |
| 14:16.14 | kingTD | lol |
| 14:16.25 | kingTD | 7 reapers on wave 9 gg :D |
| 14:17.07 | Kueken | I would assume the former |
| 14:17.17 | G0A | wave 9 reapers = ensured victory |
| 14:17.46 | A1win | what if everyone does it ;p |
| 14:17.55 | A1win | it's balanced because everyone can do it! woo |
| 14:17.56 | duckies | yeah, we just save metal for 2 reapers each, and ... is it 5th game like that? |
| 14:18.03 | duckies | nope, not everybody >.> |
| 14:18.52 | duckies | also, noobs keep on sending drones at 1st wave >.> |
| 14:19.08 | kingTD | sure we playing vs noobs, but if at least couple of them in the enemy team free win |
| 14:19.09 | duckies | it's such a cruel newb-trap |
| 14:20.05 | JademusSreg | Latter. |
| 14:21.13 | Kueken | so it determines how efficiently a player uses the specified object? |
| 14:21.21 | JademusSreg | Developed the 2-year-old damage tracker script to help balance content. Figured I'd extend it. |
| 14:21.59 | Zolden | kingTD duckies would it be better to postpone letting players to be able to release reapers, or weaken repaers, or weaken wave 9 boss? |
| 14:22.00 | JademusSreg | Profiles All The Things. |
| 14:22.14 | Kueken | or rather, it keeps track of the objects used by the player to allow stuff like advanced statistics later |
| 14:23.03 | Kueken | aka "player fired 12 widow mine shots dealing 16 billion damage total" |
| 14:23.32 | duckies | mabe make reaper w10, it's just that w9 is usually a close one with strong boss, and the reapers presence easily turns the tide in drones favor |
| 14:23.37 | JademusSreg | Pretty much. Collect data, define relationships, let the user figure out how best to use it. |
| 14:23.55 | Zolden | duckies ok |
| 14:24.06 | duckies | w10 is not easy too, but if you have some aoe, it won't be as deadly |
| 14:24.28 | duckies | +refinery can handle the mobs on w10, while on w9 it's instagg :/ |
| 14:24.41 | Zolden | yea |
| 14:24.43 | kingTD | and really wont kill enemy since they are weak against base |
| 14:25.06 | kingTD | still kinda borring that u cant really win in early stages of the game |
| 14:25.37 | kingTD | that u just must play for 10 waves and more for sure |
| 14:25.53 | Zolden | kingTD you can't at squad td too |
| 14:26.02 | JademusSreg | Could output valid XML, that would be convenient. |
| 14:26.31 | kingTD | not really would say that thats cool |
| 14:26.43 | duckies | it does remove some options, but what else can be done considering that there isn't approporiate counter-measure to sends, other than having a solid devenses |
| 14:27.37 | duckies | early game it's cool cause you'd save up drill till beginning of wave to snipe some of those pesky acidlings |
| 14:27.47 | duckies | but there is no such equivalent for reapers ;/ |
| 14:28.39 | duckies | the only strategy against that is to make more reapers so that enemy team dies faster :D |
| 14:29.09 | duckies | which isn't really a strategy, more like blind luck of having many iron minerals spawning near your position |
| 14:36.59 | Zolden | kingTD duckies G0A I'd like to test final battle thing, would you be so kind to join to the SEA server where I uploaded test version? |
| 14:37.53 | duckies | k |
| 14:37.53 | kingTD | why the fuck u uploaded there? |
| 14:39.50 | duckies | zold, channel/meeting place? |
| 14:40.14 | Zolden | starcraft://profile/6/422308122577600512 |
| 14:40.20 | Zolden | kingTD to test |
| 14:40.56 | duckies | just join sc2mapster group channel zolden |
| 14:41.51 | kingTD | starcraft://group/6/491 |
| 14:52.07 | Zolden | hope one day someone survive until wave 37 end and see their armies fight |
| 15:06.55 | kingTD | ok need to finally remade that AoK broken gen system |
| 15:07.08 | kingTD | map gen |
| 15:07.53 | kingTD | or play forgotten HS |
| 15:12.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.226.208.217) |
| 15:24.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 15:24.10 | Zolden | kingTD yes, and fix lag |
| 15:24.24 | kingTD | about lag not much i can do |
| 15:24.28 | kingTD | its spaming game |
| 15:24.36 | kingTD | unless i will have to make WC3 |
| 15:24.39 | kingTD | style |
| 15:24.52 | kingTD | 40 units with 20 buildings for every player |
| 15:24.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-141.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 15:24.59 | Zolden | possible solution is 2x increase price of units, and make units bigger and 2x hp |
| 15:26.39 | Zolden | how many tree units are on the map? |
| 15:26.52 | Zolden | maybe make trees bigger |
| 15:26.59 | Zolden | and less amount |
| 15:26.59 | kingTD | mm |
| 15:27.13 | Zolden | actually both solutions suck |
| 15:27.13 | kingTD | 96x96 map size 300 trees? |
| 15:27.31 | Zolden | check actor/text tag leask |
| 15:27.41 | Zolden | it was more laggy than just unit amount |
| 15:27.49 | Zolden | maybe your missiles are fucked? |
| 15:27.56 | kingTD | increasing units price will only make teching and building economy more better than attacking |
| 15:28.13 | kingTD | but shit will be done in that matter |
| 15:28.57 | kingTD | 256 x 256 1500 trees |
| 15:29.07 | kingTD | total units created 2500 |
| 15:29.14 | Zolden | not that much\ |
| 15:29.34 | Zolden | in rol I had 2k units only for the borders, and fps fas about 50 |
| 15:29.38 | Zolden | in your map it was 12 |
| 15:30.34 | kingTD | since 6 players had like 100 units moving, then there where missiles flying... |
| 15:31.02 | kingTD | plus some gathering functions lagging mb |
| 15:31.21 | kingTD | not much but still in action |
| 15:32.33 | kingTD | and there where plenty of structures built too |
| 15:34.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (Renee@116.226.208.217) |
| 15:38.48 | Kueken | on my pc, units handle quite well until you reach about 5-7k |
| 15:39.04 | Kueken | without any visible actors/models |
| 15:39.13 | Kueken | 10k is unplayable |
| 15:39.42 | Kueken | so 2500 with models and additional missiles, effects etc could be problematic |
| 15:40.10 | kingTD | having 42 fps with those 2500 units that do nothing |
| 15:41.50 | kingTD | lol opened dialog and from 112 fps gone to 60 |
| 15:42.47 | kingTD | soo fucking cool! http://snag.gy/g8UcP.jpg |
| 15:44.54 | Zolden | kingTD i'd self-organize the shit out of them |
| 15:45.31 | kingTD | mmmm? |
| 15:46.14 | Zolden | i'd make each river - a chain of charges, that iterate with each other and with other rivers |
| 15:46.29 | Zolden | also with borders |
| 15:46.50 | Zolden | and would give them some time to push each other |
| 15:48.55 | Bommes | http://imgur.com/gallery/crquS that's all I really have to say about languages. |
| 15:50.56 | G0A | Kueken yeah in my pictionary map 6000+ units cause serious lag. (even though I uses the simplest model) |
| 15:51.57 | G0A | kingTD when in game type: ActorInfoDisplay and check if the actor number increases specially if you use weapons... |
| 15:52.47 | kingTD | well missiles are actors? even units |
| 15:53.02 | G0A | yeah |
| 15:53.38 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.198.189.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 15:54.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.198.189.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 15:55.41 | Kueken | missile weapons use units |
| 15:56.21 | Kueken | just actors are only problematic if using excessive visuals, the game can handle a metric shitton of actors |
| 15:57.32 | Kueken | barring obvious stuff like infinite loops and some issues with scaling particle emitters |
| 15:57.56 | G0A | would be nice to know to why does sc2 lags with 6k+ actors even though the actors arent drawn |
| 15:58.27 | Kueken | units you mean? |
| 15:58.54 | G0A | Its doesnt matter if they are units or actors as I know |
| 15:59.26 | Kueken | 6k invisible actors without any units or so usually don't cause problems |
| 15:59.37 | Kueken | even visible ones, like 6k doodads |
| 16:00.35 | Kueken | but I assume you did set up a specific example for that? |
| 16:00.37 | G0A | will test after this M&M game:D |
| 16:00.54 | G0A | I used to do test about it with my pictionary map |
| 16:26.14 | JademusSreg | adds Render frame type to the wish-list. |
| 16:28.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-178-006-168-210.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:30.12 | Kueken | uuh, Jade's personal wishlist |
| 16:30.25 | Kueken | I bet its about the size of that reaper wave |
| 16:32.00 | JademusSreg | Quality over quantity. =D |
| 16:32.32 | Zolden | Queken over Kueken |
| 16:32.42 | Kueken | size may refer to both |
| 16:33.02 | Kueken | if the points are huge, you don't need many |
| 16:33.27 | Kueken | (and I don't mean huge = many words) |
| 16:35.23 | JademusSreg | Object-oriented language features, that's pretty much the only other wish. Make galaxy more like Java or C#, that would be nice and exceedingly unlikely. |
| 16:36.25 | JademusSreg | Here's the client string dump, minus most unreadable garbage. |
| 16:36.25 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/47amk |
| 16:38.06 | Kueken | thats a pretty big one |
| 16:38.12 | Kueken | the wish I mean |
| 16:38.41 | Kueken | the dump too xD |
| 16:38.44 | JademusSreg | Yep. Aptly refered to as a wish. =D |
| 16:39.16 | Kueken | reading 37k string lines, np |
| 16:40.13 | JademusSreg | Having to trim down the editor strings further, since it's 500KB larger. |
| 16:40.54 | Kueken | randomly skimmed through |
| 16:41.20 | Kueken | lines from 5k to 6.5k certainly look like unreadable garbage to me :D |
| 16:41.40 | JademusSreg | Pretty sure those are the parameters for the natives. |
| 16:45.21 | JademusSreg | deletes a whole bunch of DirectX rendering shit. |
| 16:45.55 | Kueken | nooo |
| 16:46.02 | Kueken | it might be important for the game |
| 16:46.13 | JademusSreg | deletes the hardcoded hashes. |
| 16:46.37 | Kueken | you cannot just randomly delete stuff |
| 16:46.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@p5790287F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:46.53 | Kueken | now Blizzard will need to release a patch |
| 16:47.09 | Kueken | to repair all the damage you caused |
| 16:48.05 | JademusSreg | Fuck it, just gonna 7z these files. |
| 16:49.27 | JademusSreg | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/Starcraft%202/SC2%20Client%20Editor%20Strings.7z |
| 16:49.33 | JademusSreg | Unedited/ |
| 16:50.45 | JademusSreg | XXX hardcore external library references, huge raw error codes, totally nude memory addresses |
| 16:51.06 | kingTD | :d |
| 16:51.21 | kingTD | cool porn u have there |
| 16:54.50 | JademusSreg | Thanks. =D |
| 17:00.57 | JademusSreg | considers Diablo-like controls for the next design. |
| 17:01.31 | G0A | ehh I am having 10 fps with 5000 units, while I have 5fps with 5000 models using the same model and the create model at point action. (as I know that creates model actor) |
| 17:02.06 | JademusSreg | How complex is the model? |
| 17:02.16 | JademusSreg | Oh wait, units. |
| 17:02.35 | JademusSreg | Yeah, units devour memory. |
| 17:02.57 | Bommes | but it's the wrong way, using units has higher fps than using actors? |
| 17:03.02 | G0A | simplest triangle (according to Zolden, he made it :D) |
| 17:03.14 | G0A | or was its square |
| 17:03.14 | Bommes | or what is the "ehh" part? |
| 17:03.42 | G0A | yes, using units has higher fps than using actors |
| 17:04.10 | JademusSreg | Hm, that can't be right, or at least not by itself. |
| 17:04.26 | G0A | test it yourself |
| 17:04.43 | G0A | I have to add they are drawn on my screen |
| 17:04.58 | G0A | at all the 3 test |
| 17:05.25 | JademusSreg | Since 5000 units would necessarily instantiate 5000 models, the disparity must come from some part of the process. |
| 17:05.30 | Zolden | is there fps difference between create model and create actor? |
| 17:05.32 | JademusSreg | Care to paste the code? |
| 17:05.51 | G0A | maybe unit actor has special low fps |
| 17:05.57 | G0A | I mean high fps |
| 17:06.19 | Zolden | what if you create actors and pause animations for them? |
| 17:07.21 | Bommes | the first thing one should check is whether the fps difference is reproducable every time you start the different maps and on different PCs I would assume |
| 17:07.38 | Zolden | G0A btw, that triangle was made not in art tools, and was made with complex shader |
| 17:07.41 | Bommes | once that is true it would be easier to investigate why it happens and if it would also happen for Doodads for example |
| 17:07.59 | Zolden | maybe i need to create one the simpliest possible material |
| 17:08.22 | G0A | Bommes I tested unit twice (started the map twice and got 10 fps both time) |
| 17:13.27 | G0A | I think some of my actor settings in the unit causes the increased fps |
| 17:16.03 | Zolden | should I use "draw" or "tie" word to describe that no one won? |
| 17:17.12 | A1win | "you're all shit" |
| 17:17.43 | G0A | :D |
| 17:18.00 | G0A | what can cause draw anyway? |
| 17:18.21 | G0A | (you should make 50% chance that tie or draw appears:) |
| 17:19.12 | G0A | hmm there is no way to create unit actor without unit? |
| 17:19.29 | A1win | "Draw" is usually used in the United Kingdom, Ireland and the Commonwealth of Nations (except in Canada) and it is usually used for sports such as association football and Australian rules football. In cricket, a draw and a tie are two different things. |
| 17:20.28 | Zolden | ok, i'll use draw |
| 17:20.31 | Zolden | iin chess it's draw |
| 17:20.40 | Zolden | and i use elo also from chess |
| 17:20.41 | Zolden | chess don't lie |
| 17:21.02 | G0A | then detect region by handle and say draw for only eu players |
| 17:21.28 | Zolden | G0A after the final battle teams' armies fight in the middle, the winner of that epic battle attacks the resource center, and if it dies trying to destroy it, and no one has no units it's draw |
| 17:22.01 | G0A | bahh I still get 6 fps with doodad actor and with same actor flags as the unit. |
| 17:22.05 | Zolden | handle has server information? |
| 17:22.10 | G0A | yes:D |
| 17:22.19 | G0A | first number indicates the server |
| 17:22.24 | Zolden | cool |
| 17:22.25 | G0A | 1 is NA 2 is EU |
| 17:23.51 | A1win | except that anyone from EU will still have the NA prefix when playing on NA, etc. |
| 17:24.10 | A1win | you have separate handle for each region |
| 17:36.47 | Lajjla | A1win, Tahvo on Barbaari. |
| 17:37.15 | Lajjla | Se kirjoittaa kuin 'Mää o suumlane' |
| 17:37.33 | Lajjla | Se koirjoittaa totta kai niin kuin tuo |
| 17:37.39 | Lajjla | Barbaari |
| 17:38.20 | Lajjla | Meidän pitäisi pännä suurit kyrpämme sen päälle |
| 17:39.48 | G0A | dammit I might have been wrong about the actor unit thing, I used different model in the actor, dammit |
| 17:40.15 | Zolden | lol |
| 17:41.24 | G0A | got 13 fps with the right model and doodad actor |
| 17:42.56 | G0A | that 6fps from to 13 came from that I have 0 z size for the model.) |
| 17:43.31 | G0A | (actually its 0.0005 Z size) |
| 17:55.38 | G0A | seems like units eat double as much fps as doodads if they are offscreen |
| 18:03.54 | G0A | even 8000 unit with no draw made my comp to have 10 fps. |
| 18:06.26 | Zolden | G0A let someone draw morgan freeman in pictionary |
| 18:07.05 | G0A | good luck with that.D |
| 18:09.32 | G0A | 40000 actors with 0 opacity made me have 10 fps |
| 18:10.20 | G0A | doodad actors though |
| 18:10.28 | Zolden | G0A do you block "penis" word to be the answer? |
| 18:10.45 | Zolden | how about to block all sc2 references too? |
| 18:11.21 | Zolden | it's so boring to guess, waht unit another noob trying to draw |
| 18:12.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:13.38 | G0A | some words like penis are blocked but like only 10 such words |
| 18:13.59 | G0A | I have some sc2 tips |
| 18:14.05 | G0A | if you ask for tips |
| 18:14.34 | G0A | Zolden you cant expect everybody to have such fantasy as yours:D |
| 18:20.26 | Zolden | "two penises" worked |
| 18:20.41 | Zolden | but it was harder to guess |
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| 18:46.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster mille25 (548725cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.135.37.205) |
| 18:46.20 | mille25 | hi |
| 18:49.28 | Zolden | is it score-produce parameter under unit that defines player's final score? |
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| 19:11.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:19.35 | JademusSreg | Hallo mille. |
| 19:20.10 | ArcanePariah | Hallo JademusSreg |
| 19:20.25 | JademusSreg | Hallo Arc. |
| 19:21.56 | ArcanePariah | So... I think I'll finally get to writing those tutorials on Actors, now that the whole Region/Query/Query Response thing clicked and makes sense now |
| 19:22.25 | ArcanePariah | Plus Lists |
| 19:22.59 | mille25 | speaking about actors, is there any way to get actor debug information via script, such as active actor count on the entire map? actorinfodisplay still doesnt work in multiplayer and we seem to have an actor leak. :( |
| 19:23.01 | ArcanePariah | Should I try to use analogies to similar effects? |
| 19:23.21 | ArcanePariah | mille25 ActorDumpLive |
| 19:23.25 | ArcanePariah | Displays ALL actors |
| 19:23.29 | ArcanePariah | and their scopes |
| 19:23.31 | JademusSreg | Oh, you might also derive insight from looking at the EditorData xml files. They define everything from the native frame layouts, preferences, map conversions, and importantly fields and their value types. |
| 19:23.34 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 19:23.36 | mille25 | but isnt that a cheat, such as actorinfodisplay, too? |
| 19:23.40 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 19:23.56 | ArcanePariah | But I belive it is dumped to debug |
| 19:23.58 | mille25 | but then it wont work in multiplayer either i guess |
| 19:24.08 | ArcanePariah | Oh, you need it for multi |
| 19:24.13 | ArcanePariah | So no actor cheats |
| 19:24.14 | mille25 | yeah, thats the problem :D |
| 19:24.16 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... |
| 19:25.30 | JademusSreg | (There is an actor message, fo realities, yo.) |
| 19:26.09 | JademusSreg | (brb++) |
| 19:29.42 | mille25 | JademusSreg: ? |
| 19:31.43 | ArcanePariah | mille25 is there any actor messages that display the actor debug info? |
| 19:36.09 | Zolden | is there any actor messages that display the actor dafuq info? |
| 19:41.53 | mille25 | Zolden: no. |
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| 20:24.57 | JademusSreg | ActorSiteOpDump AliasDump AnimDumpDB AttachDump DeathCustomsDump HostedPropDump HostedPropDumpAll PhysicsBodyDump PhysicsMatchKeysOrderedDump RefTableDump TextureDumpDB TextureDump RefDump |
| 20:25.36 | JademusSreg | Also, back. =D |
| 20:27.13 | mille25 | JademusSreg: but how could those actor messages be used to find out the current active actor count in the game? |
| 20:27.39 | JademusSreg | Ah, no. |
| 20:27.58 | JademusSreg | Pardon, I skimmed, missed that caveat. |
| 20:28.54 | mille25 | well... i suggested activating actorinfodisplay in multiplayer on the blizzard forums |
| 20:28.58 | mille25 | maybe theyll look into that |
| 20:30.01 | JademusSreg | Actors are asynchronous, so one simply cannot count synchronously things which cannot be guaranteed to exist. =D |
| 20:30.08 | mille25 | =/ |
| 20:30.33 | JademusSreg | You'd actually need to keep a running count as you create and destroy them from a synchronous source. |
| 20:31.10 | JademusSreg | Truly, sadly, it is the only way. |
| 20:31.50 | mille25 | but in theory it should be possible for blizzard to activate the actor cheats in multiplayer, displaying for example actor count for the cheating player? |
| 20:32.04 | mille25 | basically running locally on his machine. |
| 20:33.05 | JademusSreg | By that same token, it should be possible for the user to modify the memory and forcibly enable the needed debug flag. |
| 20:33.08 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:40.47 | JademusSreg | (Not that one should, mind you. Don't want Maiev the Warden issuing a 10000 year ban.) |
| 20:40.54 | Zandose | hey, in dialog item types whats a Offscreen Unit? |
| 20:46.47 | JademusSreg | digs. |
| 20:49.28 | Zolden | pigs |
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| 20:55.11 | Zandose | sgips |
| 20:55.37 | JademusSreg | Seems to be a visual indicator for when the unit is offscreen. =D |
| 20:55.51 | Zandose | k |
| 20:57.17 | Zandose | if you make a dialog fullscreen does that increase the dialog size? |
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| 21:00.40 | JademusSreg | No. |
| 21:00.57 | Zandose | k |
| 21:00.58 | Zandose | ty |
| 21:00.59 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
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| 21:02.55 | JademusSreg | No.* It will be rendered fullscreen, but its size properties will remain unchanged. At one point or another, people tend to try using a fullscreen to determine resolution, which nevar works. |
| 21:03.07 | JademusSreg | Hallogain Arc. |
| 21:07.32 | ArcanePariah | What is the difference between the different beam types? |
| 21:07.41 | ArcanePariah | Has anyone ever tested/investigated? |
| 21:16.43 | JademusSreg | Clarify? You mean BeamData.xml stuff, yeah? |
| 21:18.06 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 21:18.27 | ArcanePariah | I just tried a synchronous sweeper, instantly crashed sc2 when I used it lol |
| 21:20.03 | JademusSreg | Ah. All the BeamData.xml files, with the exception of Core's, are empty. I remember reading a comment about it in the actor data, actually. |
| 21:22.06 | JademusSreg | Hm, nope. But yeah, it's basically unused. |
| 21:22.26 | ArcanePariah | I guess it was found to be not needed, and Beam Simple was used |
| 21:22.39 | ArcanePariah | Because the Beam Types are only used in Beam Standard Actors |
| 21:25.47 | ArcanePariah | It's funny, it always seem all software project struggle to balance the following concerns: Develop new features, document current features, remove obsolete featrues |
| 21:28.15 | ArcanePariah | Although new features makes money, neglecting the other 2 will eventually cost money, but I guess too many people don't care, and too many people are used to software sucking |
| 21:28.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster XtremeGalaxy (~XtremeGal@41.48.223.228) |
| 21:29.19 | XtremeGalaxy | good evening...^^ |
| 21:29.54 | Zandose | ^^ good god, not agian |
| 21:29.57 | ArcanePariah | At some point, software companies are probably going to learn to not rush projects... From what I've read, people are getting wary of pre ordering games, and expecting them to suck horribly at launch |
| 21:30.33 | XtremeGalaxy | no its ok, i decided to redo the terrain ^^ |
| 21:31.33 | XtremeGalaxy | i just hav a Q, wats the best way(proper way) to make a "unit" building such as DS HotS? |
| 21:32.07 | XtremeGalaxy | is it better to create a building with a unit model? |
| 21:32.29 | XtremeGalaxy | or a unit that can be placed like a building? |
| 21:34.36 | Zolden | any would work |
| 21:34.51 | XtremeGalaxy | hi Zol |
| 21:34.54 | Zolden | i have attack-target abil that places units |
| 21:34.59 | Zolden | hi |
| 21:35.22 | Zolden | if unit has no mode abil, it will act rather like a building |
| 21:35.26 | XtremeGalaxy | ok |
| 21:35.32 | Zolden | *move abil |
| 21:35.58 | XtremeGalaxy | so simply removing the move abil will make it a "building" ? |
| 21:36.24 | XtremeGalaxy | coz i was thinking the unit way would be easier to handle and copy around |
| 21:36.43 | XtremeGalaxy | and give commands after spawning |
| 21:37.34 | XtremeGalaxy | but the building way would eliminate / make easier by allready having all the building behaviours etc |
| 21:38.00 | XtremeGalaxy | i basically dont want to make it too complicated |
| 21:38.18 | XtremeGalaxy | you know the KISS principle |
| 21:39.58 | XtremeGalaxy | just btw, could anyone find something with regard to the Gateway_hash_mismatch issue? |
| 21:40.48 | XtremeGalaxy | i posted the map to a friend in ger, and it messed up his editor also after dl'ing some missing dependancies |
| 21:41.01 | XtremeGalaxy | WIERD |
| 21:46.45 | XtremeGalaxy | Is there someone from blizz here at some point? |
| 21:47.19 | A1win | they often get here after a new patch is released for a while |
| 21:47.36 | A1win | been long since the last time |
| 21:47.41 | XtremeGalaxy | ok so should be soon |
| 21:48.26 | XtremeGalaxy | A1 any maps you made i might know? |
| 21:48.54 | A1win | only released CraftCraft so far, and it's not really even finished |
| 21:49.14 | A1win | working on a new project atm, going to release it soon, if I can come up with a name for it :P |
| 21:49.29 | XtremeGalaxy | nice not played yet |
| 21:49.41 | XtremeGalaxy | type? |
| 21:49.48 | A1win | CraftCraft is a huge clusterfuck tbh ;p |
| 21:50.13 | XtremeGalaxy | Trolololol |
| 21:50.17 | A1win | it's kind of a strategy game with base construction |
| 21:50.35 | G0A | A1win you will never find a name for your map |
| 21:50.36 | A1win | it's fun if you can spend the time to learn how it works :P |
| 21:50.41 | A1win | :( |
| 21:51.02 | XtremeGalaxy | nice i had an idea to make a 3 player FFA melee map with a campaign twist |
| 21:51.42 | A1win | my current project is awesome though |
| 21:52.04 | XtremeGalaxy | O0 |
| 21:52.10 | XtremeGalaxy | ? |
| 21:52.33 | A1win | some older footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHHaPGw-rM |
| 21:53.28 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.198.189.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 21:54.17 | XtremeGalaxy | lolm nice looks like the strategy game i made for a projects at university with c++ |
| 21:56.02 | XtremeGalaxy | here was my 2nd map i ever made in sc2 |
| 21:56.02 | XtremeGalaxy | www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpnB7xnQuC0 |
| 21:56.04 | XtremeGalaxy | Photon Defenders |
| 21:56.14 | XtremeGalaxy | that was ver 1.3 |
| 21:56.26 | XtremeGalaxy | i released a ver 3 a couple of moths back |
| 21:56.37 | XtremeGalaxy | LOL MOTHS, months |
| 21:56.58 | JademusSreg | Zloop. |
| 21:58.22 | XtremeGalaxy | sadly i uploaded locked and lost the original file =P |
| 22:01.02 | JademusSreg | Play map, find in cache, unlock. Map (mostly) restored. |
| 22:02.00 | mille25 | you should be able to script in galaxy though :D |
| 22:02.17 | mille25 | or at least, be able to maintain the old code as galaxy. |
| 22:02.26 | XtremeGalaxy | ah cool didnt know that |
| 22:02.30 | JademusSreg | Yes, or reconstruct the GUI trigger stuff manually. |
| 22:02.31 | A1win | that's the "mostly" part |
| 22:02.51 | XtremeGalaxy | triggers can be rodone, terraing is a bitch |
| 22:03.19 | ArcanePariah | Terrain can be extracted and copied back in |
| 22:03.41 | JademusSreg | I'll cover the process vaguely. |
| 22:03.44 | XtremeGalaxy | someone wanna try PD ver 3 in EU ? need comments etc |
| 22:03.55 | XtremeGalaxy | ... |
| 22:04.41 | mille25 | oh, did i already mention that i ran into a bank signature bug yesterday? :D |
| 22:04.59 | mille25 | all of the sudden the banks didnt validate anymore, saying signature was invalid. |
| 22:05.27 | mille25 | but absolutly no related change in code. |
| 22:05.55 | mille25 | it turned out that it was caused by a too long bank key, which caused the bank signature to be generated incorrectly. however, i wasnt able to reproduce the issue on a new, empty map. no idea what to think of it. |
| 22:06.38 | mille25 | sadly i cant report it without evidence (meaning, reproducing it on a blank map) |
| 22:07.42 | XtremeGalaxy | i think blizz's cache on local machines are aweful |
| 22:07.49 | JademusSreg | Play map, search .sc2ma in program data directory, open file with an mpq editor, add missing files, change file extension. |
| 22:09.22 | JademusSreg | mille, I am skeptical. The amount of information passed to the hash function for signature generation almost certainly surpasses the key by quite a lot. |
| 22:09.36 | XtremeGalaxy | thousands of files just waiting to be corrupted xD xD xD |
| 22:10.43 | JademusSreg | But there could be a bug at any other step in the process. |
| 22:14.04 | mille25 | yeah no idea |
| 22:14.12 | mille25 | will eventually investigate further if i have the time |
| 22:15.17 | XtremeGalaxy | ok good night hf, gf moaning, gtg @Jade, ill try your suggestion, any good mpq editors? |
| 22:15.32 | JademusSreg | The one named exactly that. |
| 22:15.45 | JademusSreg | MPQEditor |
| 22:15.59 | XtremeGalaxy | kk |
| 22:16.04 | Deaod | http://zezula.net |
| 22:17.26 | XtremeGalaxy | . /c~Oo| |
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| 22:20.13 | XtremeGalaxy | zZzzZzzZ night night |
| 22:22.06 | JademusSreg | Funny that one could use extension mods to destroy the melee-related triggers and impose its own objectives. |
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| 22:31.44 | ArcanePariah | Oh? How would you undo the melee triggers? |
| 22:31.49 | ArcanePariah | Change all the flags? |
| 22:33.09 | ArcanePariah | Actually, would be easy to just create a unit in data that has all Prevent flag set and create one for each player |
| 22:33.52 | JademusSreg | Call the function TriggerDestroy on Melee_Initialization before map init event. |
| 22:34.10 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 22:34.44 | ArcanePariah | About that, how does that occur? Is there a function that is called when loading libs that you can insert into pre map init? |
| 22:35.03 | JademusSreg | Not just libraries, but yes. |
| 22:35.57 | JademusSreg | The Custom Script element (not the Custom Script trigger action) has an Initialization field, which is called before the map init event. |
| 22:36.31 | ArcanePariah | I'm asssuming it goes something like this: Map is loaded into memory -> Preload -> Libraries Loaded (More like link step, not necessarily libs) -> Intialization of game state -> Game starts (This is the earliest point of Map Init Event) |
| 22:37.01 | JademusSreg | That's essentially correct. |
| 22:37.56 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, first step is really just map code being loaded, preload is basically assets loading |
| 22:38.18 | ArcanePariah | I'm assuming the event you are referrring to is the game state intialization step |
| 22:40.35 | JademusSreg | I'm refering to the actual Map Initialization event, rather than the more generic idea. =D |
| 22:41.56 | JademusSreg | Map Initialization is an event, whereas the Initialization field of Custom Script elements adds the defined function to the map script main init function (which is alos responsible for initializating libraries and global variables). |
| 22:43.01 | JademusSreg | Which is nice for scripters, since it gets all the preperation out of the way while the loadscreen is up. =D |
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