| 00:11.07 | A1win | wheee now it changes size based on number of players when that round ended |
| 00:31.34 | A1win | guess that's enough for today, awards + misc stuff tomorrow |
| 00:32.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bommes|2 (~Bommes@ipkn-70.koenigsnet.rwth-aachen.de) |
| 00:34.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin (~Dustin@ip68-102-170-78.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 01:13.42 | Kueken | I agree with Dustin |
| 01:13.50 | Kueken | just saying |
| 01:14.51 | DeadZergling | who you talking to Kueken? |
| 01:15.06 | Kueken | nobody |
| 01:15.30 | DeadZergling | was just curious, think half the channel has Stewox on ignore at this point |
| 01:15.44 | Dustin | :D |
| 01:17.06 | Stewox | huh |
| 01:20.14 | Stewox | you guys do understand that because of your stupidity you're most likely to be the first ones to die in basically any situation that unfolds in the next few years ... |
| 01:20.35 | Stewox | don't say I didn't warn you |
| 01:21.38 | Stewox | goes to sleep |
| 01:23.39 | DeadZergling | So, when hell unleashes on earth, I die early and don't have to experience it? Seems like a good deal to me, I don't have to pay attention to anything, and I get all the perks. |
| 01:25.26 | A1win | only the Chosen Ones will survive |
| 01:25.55 | A1win | follow Alex Jones and you will be chosen |
| 01:26.47 | DeadZergling | they shall remain to fight the machines |
| 01:27.06 | DeadZergling | under John Connor's leadership, they will eventually rise and defeat the machines |
| 01:27.12 | A1win | this is like straight from the definition of a cult |
| 01:27.35 | DeadZergling | oh, I thought it was straight from something I'd wipe off my ass |
| 01:29.39 | A1win | also, we already died in 2012 in the end of the world, rest of this is just out of generosity |
| 01:30.05 | DeadZergling | I was rather dissapointed demolition man's prediction for LA didn't come true |
| 01:31.07 | DeadZergling | naw, we gotta keep pushing on to 2015 so we can all have hoverboards and flying cars fueled by trash stuffed into Mr. Fusion |
| 01:32.32 | DeadZergling | be great for fuel economy in such, probably have 5000 % increase in driving fatality though. |
| 01:33.13 | DeadZergling | need auto insurance for your homes, in case people fly into it |
| 01:36.17 | A1win | sleep time |
| 01:36.24 | DeadZergling | about time steak man |
| 01:36.31 | DeadZergling | have fun adding rewards tommorrow |
| 01:36.41 | A1win | steak? |
| 01:36.48 | DeadZergling | A1 steak sauce |
| 01:36.56 | A1win | ;p |
| 01:37.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~nevzets@ip51cc146b.speed.planet.nl) |
| 01:37.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets) |
| 01:38.23 | DeadZergling | Argggg it is Lajila, quick everyone dislike/hate her! |
| 01:38.41 | DeadZergling | errr, hi Lajila :) |
| 01:57.28 | Ahli | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11738826/public-test-realm-operational-12-3-2013 |
| 02:00.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:00.29 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 02:00.34 | ArcanePariah | PTR is up apparently |
| 02:01.16 | ArcanePariah | And holy shit is a full patch... 15 gig redownload, go go go... |
| 02:01.41 | Ahli | it's a separate installation of the game as every PTR |
| 02:02.01 | ArcanePariah | Ok, didn't know that, but in any case... guess I get to chill while it downloads |
| 02:02.09 | Ahli | I expect a full list of changes/bugs after my exam :) |
| 02:02.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster miushock (3288f43c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.136.244.60) |
| 02:02.28 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I'll check it when I get back later tonight |
| 02:05.22 | miushock | hi ap |
| 02:06.53 | miushock | does anyone know how to make an ability that it's power scaled by other factor? |
| 02:08.06 | miushock | say i have a damage effect, instead of a fixed number, how do i make it deal level*5 amount of damage? |
| 02:39.27 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 02:39.36 | JademusSreg | Seems I'll have fun digging. |
| 03:00.45 | Ahli | dig faster :D |
| 03:01.00 | Ahli | and explain me "error backpropagation network" |
| 03:01.46 | JademusSreg | Oh, I haven't started yet; I'm tidying the office. |
| 03:12.28 | Ahli | sooo, time to sleep, breakfast, read over my notes again, go and pass the last oral exam for my bachelors degree, return home, check PTR, go to workgroup meeting, drink alcohol with them afterwards... wish me luck... |
| 03:15.26 | DeadZergling | good luck on drinking |
| 03:17.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster nooblark (nooblark@c-68-46-106-180.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:20.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster JonesFK (jygga@unaffiliated/jygga) |
| 03:20.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 03:26.24 | Repo | New experimental map: Size Units - http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/size-units/ |
| 03:26.36 | Repo | New map: Sniping Sniper - http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sniping-sniper/ |
| 03:26.42 | Repo | New map: Banshee Blood - http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/banshee-blood/ |
| 03:37.15 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 03:41.56 | JademusSreg | reads the patch notes. |
| 03:42.25 | nooblark | jade |
| 03:42.32 | nooblark | what's the quote of the day, sir? |
| 03:42.54 | JademusSreg | checks the logs. |
| 03:45.33 | JademusSreg | [in response to some silly idea about "free people"] "Free the people, sure. May as well incite your dermis to revolt against your brain, the tyranny of that nervous tissue is unmatched, those brain cells are the top 2% and they get a full quarter of the body's glucose. The only way to correct this injustice is to forcibly overthrow your brain and remove it from your body." |
| 03:46.12 | nooblark | ... |
| 03:46.27 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 03:46.38 | nooblark | i liked your quote yesterday better :/ |
| 03:46.52 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 03:47.56 | JademusSreg | Word play is enjoyable, but playing with ideas has its own pleasure. |
| 03:48.42 | nooblark | to bed or not to bed? |
| 03:49.39 | JademusSreg | Either way, you're ultimately doomed, so keep that in mind when making decisions. =D |
| 03:49.51 | nooblark | lol |
| 03:50.13 | nooblark | work should be more fun with more sleep, yes? |
| 03:51.09 | JademusSreg | More fun / less not-fun, yeah. |
| 03:51.30 | nooblark | lol |
| 03:52.02 | nooblark | SC2 isn't dead yet? |
| 03:52.19 | nooblark | I haven't touched it since HOTS, and it was just to play campaign (which was horrible) |
| 03:52.24 | JademusSreg | PTR for patch 2.1 is up. |
| 03:52.39 | JademusSreg | Adds some boring stuff, but also adds Extension Mods. |
| 03:52.56 | JademusSreg | So players can just play a game, and add more shit. |
| 03:53.37 | JademusSreg | Looking forward to Night of the Mafia's Dead Warship. |
| 03:54.00 | nooblark | how did SC Universe come out, or has it not been release? |
| 03:54.38 | JademusSreg | Dunno, haven't bothered to ask. =D |
| 03:57.12 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+o Torhal] by Kaelten |
| 04:00.00 | JademusSreg | Nearly at Optimal. Then the gratuitous gutting of the data may commence. |
| 04:03.47 | nooblark | bed time, peace |
| 04:08.15 | JademusSreg | Damn. The bnet client hasn't closed the output stream to the mpqs, so they remaining inaccessible. |
| 04:10.55 | ArcanePariah | Well, there are some new tooltips. The Respones to UNit Player Change flag has a tooltip, don't know if it had one before |
| 04:11.45 | ArcanePariah | In fact, none of the Flags in Actors had tooltips, now they all do |
| 04:12.16 | ArcanePariah | Response to Unit Player Change is intersesting, it makes the actor change its player id dynamcially, so the game will autoupdate colors and other things |
| 04:12.37 | JademusSreg | Has your PTR install completed or are you accessing data whose output streams are closed? |
| 04:12.46 | ArcanePariah | Install is complete |
| 04:13.28 | JademusSreg | Damn. Were I capable of envy, I imagine this would be an opportunity to experience it. |
| 04:13.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bommes|2 (~Bommes@ipkn-70.koenigsnet.rwth-aachen.de) |
| 04:15.49 | JademusSreg | Only about 40% complete, pah, |
| 04:15.57 | Kueken | PTR was unfaithful |
| 04:16.02 | Kueken | you should shoot her |
| 04:16.09 | Kueken | or at least slap |
| 04:16.22 | JademusSreg | Hm, confusing envy with jealousy. |
| 04:16.56 | Kueken | not confuse, mix up on purpose |
| 04:17.05 | JademusSreg | Ah, in that case, well executed. |
| 04:18.01 | Kueken | but, to be fair, both words can translate to the same word in german |
| 04:18.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bommes|2 (~Bommes@ipkn-70.koenigsnet.rwth-aachen.de) |
| 04:20.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bommes|2 (~Bommes@ipkn-70.koenigsnet.rwth-aachen.de) |
| 04:21.12 | JademusSreg | Ah, just say the german equivalent of possessive-desire-for-goods for envy and possessive-desire-for-people for jealousy. |
| 04:22.41 | JademusSreg | (Though to those of the sociopathic persuasion, it's a distinction without difference.) |
| 04:24.04 | ArcanePariah | Ok, they added a fair number of tooltips to data |
| 04:24.13 | ArcanePariah | Like Model Flags now has tooltips for all flags |
| 04:25.02 | JademusSreg | Are you running the editor or looking at the tooltip files? |
| 04:25.10 | ArcanePariah | Running editor |
| 04:26.00 | ArcanePariah | Synchronus seed is interesting, it was the flag that forced a model variation to be the same one created for all players |
| 04:26.01 | JademusSreg | Hm. I imagine the editor would not like if I attempted to run it during the install process. |
| 04:27.05 | Kueken | Jade, there are specific words that point in either direction as well, but there is some overlap, some room for interpretation that would permit the use of the same word in both cases |
| 04:28.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (~Delphiniu@60.166.125.43) |
| 04:28.24 | JademusSreg | Yes, word play and puns in particular depend on lexical ambiguity. |
| 04:28.28 | ArcanePariah | Hey Jade, guess what? Alerts = Errors |
| 04:28.40 | ArcanePariah | nvm |
| 04:28.43 | JademusSreg | HAhaha |
| 04:28.45 | ArcanePariah | one at least said error alert |
| 04:32.45 | ArcanePariah | They fixed Weapon data links |
| 04:32.53 | JademusSreg | Clarify? |
| 04:32.57 | ArcanePariah | for duplicate and the object viewer |
| 04:33.04 | JademusSreg | Nice. |
| 04:33.16 | ArcanePariah | Before, if you tried examinig a weapon, it owuldnt show the links to other things like actors/effects |
| 04:33.18 | ArcanePariah | Now it does |
| 04:33.43 | ArcanePariah | Err... maybe not |
| 04:33.53 | ArcanePariah | Nope, not fixed :/ |
| 04:34.16 | Kueken | :D |
| 04:34.43 | JademusSreg | Yay! |
| 04:41.28 | JademusSreg | 70% arghdamnslowfluffingspunkjugglingcopragarglingfishfistingsoreweepingcockrottingpursesplittingshitwhistle. |
| 04:42.34 | Kueken | now I am curious about the 30% |
| 04:45.10 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, so far, mostly added tooltips to actor fields |
| 04:45.16 | ArcanePariah | Haven't looked at other modules much yet |
| 04:48.00 | JademusSreg | Doesn't bother me in the least to know how movies or novels end, yet I somehow want to avoid spoilers for this, and it amuses me. |
| 04:51.10 | ArcanePariah | I'll say this much, the editor loads up much faster |
| 04:51.12 | JademusSreg | At least the Extension Mod feature will introduce much needed modularity to the galaxy platform. |
| 04:51.43 | ArcanePariah | Loaded my entire map up in 10 seconds |
| 04:51.53 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 04:53.03 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, overall the editor feels faster/more responsive |
| 04:54.48 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 04:55.31 | JademusSreg | File > Preferences > Battle.net > notice option Obfuscate Script Files When Publishing Locked Maps. |
| 04:55.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Delphinium (~Delphiniu@60.166.125.43) |
| 04:56.08 | ArcanePariah | Well... lol |
| 04:56.21 | ArcanePariah | Guess locked maps now have teeth |
| 04:56.38 | JademusSreg | I'll be skeptical until I see it. |
| 04:57.05 | ArcanePariah | Are you running editor? |
| 04:57.13 | JademusSreg | Yep. |
| 04:57.21 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so you noticed the caveat then? |
| 04:57.22 | JademusSreg | Turns out it can run before a complete install. |
| 04:57.46 | JademusSreg | Clarify? |
| 04:58.08 | ArcanePariah | Hover over the option. It obsfucates during publishing, but only from GUI created script |
| 04:58.17 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 04:58.44 | JademusSreg | I look forward to understanding how it works. |
| 04:58.52 | ArcanePariah | Wont obsfucate custom script, and can cause errors if referecing GUI script |
| 04:59.17 | JademusSreg | I expect it's a ridiculously simple identifier changer. |
| 05:00.43 | JademusSreg | Hm. How long has Export Balance Dats been there? I remember such a feature from the previous content patch, but not that export option. |
| 05:00.56 | ArcanePariah | Been there for a patch or 2 |
| 05:01.10 | ArcanePariah | You can check patch notes, the B.net Launcher has them integrated |
| 05:01.26 | ArcanePariah | Or check patch archive |
| 05:03.08 | ArcanePariah | The publishing interface seems to be much faster |
| 05:03.38 | Kueken | wait a second |
| 05:03.52 | Kueken | they added obfuscation, but only for GUI script? |
| 05:04.06 | ArcanePariah | Yes, it obsfucates on publish, i'm going to try it now |
| 05:04.18 | Kueken | has the urgent urge to leave some teethmarks in a certain table |
| 05:04.37 | ArcanePariah | ??? |
| 05:04.46 | ArcanePariah | Lemme guess, you got custom script all over? |
| 05:04.56 | ArcanePariah | So it won't work for you |
| 05:05.03 | Kueken | 100 points |
| 05:05.37 | ArcanePariah | Well as long as your custom script doesn't reference GUI script, it will obsfucate the GUI script and pubilish fine |
| 05:05.46 | Kueken | its just a little frustrating that only Gui gets any support and raw galaxy is basically not supported at all |
| 05:06.15 | Kueken | its as if they are actively discouraging people from using galaxy script |
| 05:07.45 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 05:08.48 | ArcanePariah | Jade, you are correct, the code is mostly intact, but all formatting has been ripped out (no biggie) and the id's have been obsfucated all over |
| 05:09.36 | ArcanePariah | The obsfucation happens client side, when I went to publish, it did it and compiled it on the fly. For me it won't work because starcode is incompatible |
| 05:10.09 | JademusSreg | Hilfuckingarious. |
| 05:10.21 | JademusSreg | Not good, of course, but comical. |
| 05:10.39 | ArcanePariah | So... explain to me the good and the bad of this setup? |
| 05:10.44 | JademusSreg | Install complete. |
| 05:10.52 | JademusSreg | Clarify? |
| 05:10.58 | JademusSreg | Also, back in 5. |
| 05:11.23 | ArcanePariah | Well, you reacted with what I perceived to be derision, so I'm assuming that its a nice option but has a serious flaw of some kind |
| 05:12.05 | Kueken | so only formatting and function/variable names changed? |
| 05:12.15 | JademusSreg | (Oh, pardon, no, not at all. I'm just amused by the blunder.) |
| 05:12.28 | ArcanePariah | So what is the blunder exactly? |
| 05:12.38 | ArcanePariah | Kueken, it appears so |
| 05:13.13 | ArcanePariah | All function names, parameters and variables had their ID's obsfucated. JademusSreg you seem to indicate that this is basically useless? |
| 05:13.25 | JademusSreg | (Blizz making obfuscation and script mutually exclusive, potentially breaking all kinds of shit, thereby limiting its application.) |
| 05:14.02 | ArcanePariah | Well, they are not exclusive per pse |
| 05:14.04 | ArcanePariah | per se* |
| 05:14.06 | Kueken | so using gui functions in galaxy breaks 100%, what about using script functions in gui? |
| 05:14.29 | ArcanePariah | Well, using your own GUI functions yes, not theirs |
| 05:14.37 | Kueken | also how is a custom script action or a value entered in custom script handled? |
| 05:15.13 | ArcanePariah | Let me paste an example of the obfuscated code so you guys can make a better determination |
| 05:15.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jademus (~jademus.s@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:16.12 | JademusSreg | (Unless they obfuscate everything down to the natives and constant enums, it's entirely useless.) |
| 05:16.17 | JademusSreg | (brb++) |
| 05:16.46 | Kueken | thats my assuption as well |
| 05:17.14 | Kueken | +m |
| 05:17.17 | ArcanePariah | http://pastebin.com/K6qkh3Jj |
| 05:17.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-71-202-39-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:19.05 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, Library calls are not obfuscated, nor are string literals or data type (bool, playergroup, etc) |
| 05:19.28 | Kueken | yeah, looks like nothing a few minutes of time and search/replace in a text editor cannot handle |
| 05:19.55 | Kueken | slight annoyance at best |
| 05:19.57 | ArcanePariah | So it makes the bar higher, but for those in the know already, it does nothing |
| 05:20.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo` (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 05:20.22 | ArcanePariah | *Shrug*, better then nothing? |
| 05:20.55 | ArcanePariah | What is the requirement to make it truly effective? Obfuscate everything? |
| 05:21.14 | Kueken | obfuscation is never truly effective |
| 05:21.27 | ArcanePariah | Well true, it is simply raising the bar |
| 05:21.54 | ArcanePariah | But without serverside banks, that's all you can do, raise the bar |
| 05:21.55 | Kueken | all the contrary, obfuscation is usually done when appropriate protection is not available |
| 05:22.36 | ArcanePariah | Yes, hence, raising the bar, it will never stop anyone from breaking it who is determined enough, but it raises the requiements to break it |
| 05:22.52 | Kueken | yeah, server-side script for locked maps would be a possibility |
| 05:23.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster ElectricPrism (~Loren@unaffiliated/electricprism) |
| 05:23.09 | Kueken | or the need of an online verification to access the script |
| 05:23.09 | ArcanePariah | Although for you and mean, this wouldn't even slow us down, for a fair number of script kiddies, this would |
| 05:24.09 | ArcanePariah | Also, by serverside script, you mean the map script is kept serverside and loaded directly into memory by the client and thus never written to disk? |
| 05:24.21 | Kueken | if script would be encrypted and you need to get a key online and this key is only given out to the map creator, that would be an effective way, for example |
| 05:24.41 | ArcanePariah | Problem is, everyone needs the script to, play the game? |
| 05:24.49 | Kueken | yes, thats what I meant by server-side script |
| 05:24.51 | ArcanePariah | Since the script is executed locally |
| 05:24.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster A1win (a1win@217.112.241.121) |
| 05:25.15 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, that would be more secure, still not perfect, but now you would need to risk a ban to learn the script |
| 05:25.25 | ArcanePariah | by doing a memory scan actively during sc2 runnning |
| 05:25.29 | ArcanePariah | online |
| 05:25.30 | JademusSreg | Obfuscate code structure, of course. |
| 05:25.59 | ArcanePariah | Like how the SC2 menus were? In the SC2 beta, i was in the IRC channels that were hacking them, apparently the flash was coded backwards? |
| 05:26.32 | ArcanePariah | All I reemeber is that the coding for the menus were... bizzarre |
| 05:26.52 | JademusSreg | Good obfuscators must make structural changes. Great obfuscators exploit quirks and ambiguity. |
| 05:27.18 | ArcanePariah | Yes but doesn't that have an impact on the code performance? |
| 05:27.34 | JademusSreg | Oh, that reminds me, several patches ago, they accidentally included the flash source files for some stuff. |
| 05:27.40 | Kueken | in WC3, you could hide code in .blp images and use the returnbug to return code from the images |
| 05:27.49 | ArcanePariah | Or are we purely talking about structural in appearance only? |
| 05:28.02 | ArcanePariah | lol, so WC3 basically had stenography? |
| 05:28.19 | Kueken | not really :D |
| 05:28.30 | Kueken | not sure how exactly it worked |
| 05:29.41 | Kueken | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:29.56 | Kueken | that looks about as obfuscated as the original gui-created script |
| 05:30.05 | ArcanePariah | lol :P |
| 05:30.36 | ArcanePariah | So TL;DR, all blizzard did was hash every script ID, amirite? |
| 05:31.12 | Kueken | umitebe |
| 05:32.35 | Kueken | it would be a lot more effective, if keywords would be obfuscated as well |
| 05:33.11 | Kueken | so instead of trigger agfaer = TriggerCreate( you had something like dgfqer gqertg = qethh( |
| 05:33.37 | Kueken | where "dgfqer" would be interpreted as "trigger" |
| 05:33.55 | Kueken | but well, still not impossible to deobfuscate |
| 05:33.57 | ArcanePariah | Yeah.... I guess you could 1 way hash all the known elements, but then it would still be subject to a comparision like attack |
| 05:34.08 | ArcanePariah | Since you could still pick out patterns |
| 05:34.51 | ArcanePariah | Like jade said, you would have to obfuscate all structures, so for your example, it would need to be asdfasdfasd asdfasdfa asfasdf asaewae aasdfase asdfaes asefaef |
| 05:37.20 | JademusSreg | The Extracting begins. |
| 05:44.15 | ArcanePariah | The mod extension thing, is it basically letting a player apply a mod on the fly to any map? |
| 05:44.23 | JademusSreg | Yesss. |
| 05:44.32 | ArcanePariah | ... that's going to be wild |
| 05:44.41 | ArcanePariah | Doesn't that effectively let anyone mod any game? |
| 05:44.51 | JademusSreg | But it serves a similarly modular function for mappersz. |
| 05:45.18 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, no shit, I can make Game X, and mappers A B C can all make mods for my map and apply them and thus create 3 variants |
| 05:45.40 | ArcanePariah | Don't like Squad TD builders? Have Another One! |
| 05:46.00 | JademusSreg | [22:53:48] <JademusSreg> Looking forward to Night of the Mafia's Dead Warship. |
| 05:46.04 | ArcanePariah | Don't like the crappy Heroes in Elite Special Forces? Have a few more!!! |
| 05:46.28 | ArcanePariah | Although, it won't be quite that simple, since it is only mod data, that only affects data, not triggers, so they can't alter UI's and such |
| 05:46.41 | ArcanePariah | But you could give radically redone skills |
| 05:46.46 | ArcanePariah | Or base stats |
| 05:46.48 | ArcanePariah | or w/e |
| 05:47.21 | JademusSreg | Only affects data? |
| 05:47.39 | JademusSreg | Hm, no problem. |
| 05:47.46 | ArcanePariah | Well... worse, it appears to only be for custom maps (ie customized melee maps) |
| 05:47.53 | ArcanePariah | Not arcade maps |
| 05:47.54 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 05:48.19 | ArcanePariah | I guess it's to make things like IMBA league easier |
| 05:48.43 | ArcanePariah | If anything, if I understand IMBA league correctly, this IS IMBA league, built right in |
| 05:48.53 | JademusSreg | At least that will allow me to test my melee designs. |
| 05:49.33 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I think the intent is to make it so, if you wanted to test say, Siege tanks with +20 damage, you don't have to create a version of each melee map with the altered data, you just create a mod, and your done |
| 05:49.52 | ArcanePariah | The ones in the PTR are both funnny and stupid |
| 05:50.01 | ArcanePariah | One is simple BGH, maxes all resources nodes |
| 05:50.27 | ArcanePariah | Another one makes the mineral fields wander like critters (Probably just gave them a wander behavior and set them movabler |
| 05:51.40 | JademusSreg | Super fun adventure time. |
| 05:53.08 | ArcanePariah | The 3rd one seems to added baneling suicide damage effect to all units :P |
| 05:53.38 | ArcanePariah | Mods are published like any other asset |
| 05:53.49 | ArcanePariah | Can browse them, top player, top rated. etc. |
| 05:54.16 | JademusSreg | One can add data, yes? |
| 05:54.33 | ArcanePariah | As in, like a description? |
| 05:54.35 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 05:54.39 | ArcanePariah | Mods are basically like arcade maps |
| 05:54.56 | JademusSreg | I mean extension mods support new data entries, yes? |
| 05:55.12 | ArcanePariah | Dunno, let me try making one in the editor |
| 05:56.07 | ArcanePariah | Yep, its a standalone data type, along with dependent mod, and arcade map, etc. |
| 05:56.44 | JademusSreg | After you finish your go at it, dropbox it for me to dissect, please. =D |
| 05:56.52 | ArcanePariah | Will do |
| 05:57.12 | ArcanePariah | Ok, nvm, they are standard sc2 mods, with just an option ticked |
| 05:57.48 | ArcanePariah | So yes, one can new data entries |
| 05:57.52 | ArcanePariah | add new* |
| 05:58.54 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, extension mods are sc2 mods, but are user applied as opposed to developer applied |
| 05:59.13 | ArcanePariah | Funny how such a little thing can make a fairly big difference |
| 05:59.18 | JademusSreg | I expect they can still be used as dependencies. |
| 05:59.41 | ArcanePariah | Well... let me try one |
| 06:01.48 | ArcanePariah | Yep |
| 06:01.55 | JademusSreg | Excellent. |
| 06:02.50 | ArcanePariah | So... if given the specs or redesigned and published publicaly, a mapmaker could make know the data for his map, and allow others to create gameplay variants |
| 06:03.11 | ArcanePariah | New units, new abilites, etc. |
| 06:03.31 | ArcanePariah | Effectively could crowdsource development, while keeping triggers intact |
| 06:04.36 | ArcanePariah | Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if there is a way for triggers to detect what mods have been applied? |
| 06:04.55 | JademusSreg | Hm, the 4 orc heroes supposedly planned for patch 2.2 will probably be provided by an extension mod. |
| 06:06.20 | ArcanePariah | O hai, new action, was there a multiply scale message for actors? |
| 06:06.26 | ArcanePariah | before? |
| 06:06.45 | JademusSreg | Shrug. |
| 06:10.49 | ArcanePariah | lmfao, wandering minerals.... |
| 06:11.36 | ArcanePariah | My probes are chasing the damm minerals around... |
| 06:11.45 | JademusSreg | Adorable. |
| 06:12.01 | ArcanePariah | At this rate, the gold fields are goign to wander into my base |
| 06:12.30 | JademusSreg | One could add more DoW to SC2. |
| 06:14.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee (cb9ccf4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.156.207.74) |
| 06:15.13 | ArcanePariah | sup Renee |
| 06:15.41 | JademusSreg | Extraction party, woo. |
| 06:16.26 | Renee | Didn't find the Orc heroes :( |
| 06:16.58 | ArcanePariah | Well, the extension mod thing is great, playing a mellee map game with wandering minerals lol |
| 06:17.09 | ArcanePariah | Having to micro my probes to mine anything |
| 06:17.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-123-172-121.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:18.01 | JademusSreg | considers an extension mod featuring the Xel Naga AI boss. |
| 06:18.47 | Renee | I think of zerg zombies mod etc. |
| 06:19.12 | JademusSreg | Bosses. |
| 06:19.27 | JademusSreg | Extra races. |
| 06:20.39 | Renee | Does the lobby support Extra race selection now? |
| 06:20.42 | JademusSreg | Heroes. |
| 06:21.01 | JademusSreg | 4 Orc heroes, that'll certainly be a Blizz extension mod. |
| 06:21.12 | JademusSreg | Dunno. =D |
| 06:21.23 | JademusSreg | I doubt it. |
| 06:21.35 | JademusSreg | Would need to put that in the map metadata. |
| 06:21.56 | Renee | I didn't find their models |
| 06:22.16 | Renee | Maybe they delayed it. |
| 06:22.25 | JademusSreg | I mean to say Blizz will probably release their own extension mod containing the orc heroes. |
| 06:25.47 | Renee | I don't know... Heroes aren't quite fit the pace of SC2. Units in sc2 die too fast, which make the heroes can't live long enough to grow. |
| 06:26.23 | Renee | It they would add heroes, the whole pace needs to be adjuested, not just add 4 new units |
| 06:27.15 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but that's the beauty of it, you could take Blizzard extension mod, make a dependency of your own mod, and release your own extension mod with stuff rebalacned :D |
| 06:27.22 | ArcanePariah | make it* |
| 06:29.06 | ArcanePariah | Which I just did, and yeah, you can take other published/public extension mods and make them a dependency in your own |
| 06:29.36 | ArcanePariah | So people could take other peoples extension mods and build on them |
| 06:29.48 | Renee | I have other works need to be done before I can get my hands on 2.1 :( |
| 06:30.03 | Kueken | yeah, slap some all units do half damage mod on top and heroes could become a lot more viable |
| 06:30.18 | JademusSreg | And extractions complete. |
| 06:30.33 | ArcanePariah | Kueken, exactly |
| 06:31.00 | ArcanePariah | Anyhow, the wandering mineral mod was simple, gave move ability to minerals with a critter wander behavior |
| 06:31.13 | ArcanePariah | And removed their footrpints |
| 06:31.18 | ArcanePariah | Hilarious imo |
| 06:31.19 | Kueken | :D |
| 06:31.38 | ArcanePariah | Fucking had to micro probes to stop chasing far fields... |
| 06:31.39 | Kueken | make them targetable as well and flee from fire |
| 06:31.47 | JademusSreg | That means... I finally have a good use for my Tiberium. |
| 06:32.17 | ArcanePariah | Dammm... your right, you could create mods that basically can be applied as total conversions... |
| 06:32.29 | ArcanePariah | Winning :D |
| 06:33.28 | ArcanePariah | I bet someone instantly combined both of blizzards mods and publishes it, BGH Wandering minerals :D |
| 06:33.51 | JademusSreg | Even better reason to determine if custom shaders are loaded. |
| 06:33.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip174-68-90-32.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 06:34.14 | JademusSreg | Psychedelic StarCraft |
| 06:34.28 | rtschutter | Nooooo they didn't setup a default observer ID so I cannot convert GameHeart into an extension mod |
| 06:35.20 | ArcanePariah | lol, for the all units explode mod, they gaveevery unit baneling explode behavior :D |
| 06:35.26 | ArcanePariah | gave every* |
| 06:35.50 | JademusSreg | Line of Fire systems. |
| 06:36.02 | Renee | Extension mods are good. Creating a Extension is faster/easier than creating a map. And even noobs of the editor can create some interesting and simple stuffs.But I think the list could be flooded after the patch official released. It doesn't seems to have a rank system or a linke system as the arcade sheet |
| 06:36.32 | JademusSreg | All the cool shit I've made but never fit with a complete design... |
| 06:36.52 | ArcanePariah | Renee, mods are just like arcade maps, they can be reviewed, has the same filters as arcade |
| 06:37.01 | ArcanePariah | so top played, top ranked. etc |
| 06:37.06 | rtschutter | Oh hey Renee!! |
| 06:37.36 | Renee | You can't use 'Copy Link' feature on them, isn't it? |
| 06:37.46 | ArcanePariah | Let me check |
| 06:38.00 | JademusSreg | No new natives in natives.galaxy |
| 06:38.41 | Renee | yes, and the data editor doesn't have any useful new fields |
| 06:38.53 | rtschutter | Can anyone think of a way to show text tags to observers without default observer ID? |
| 06:39.05 | ArcanePariah | starcraft://map/98/360, yep you can link mods |
| 06:39.32 | ArcanePariah | lol, they even have the standard chat channel that comes with an arcade map... |
| 06:40.12 | ArcanePariah | starcraft://map/98/360 |
| 06:40.13 | Renee | The editor itself doesn't have much improves. Less improve than patch 2.0.11 actually |
| 06:40.24 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, seems like a few tooltips in actors |
| 06:40.38 | ArcanePariah | and feels like some performance optimizations as well? |
| 06:40.41 | ArcanePariah | Editor felt quicker |
| 06:40.45 | ArcanePariah | Maybe just me |
| 06:40.53 | Renee | about 10000 words of new tooltips |
| 06:41.18 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, some of the new tooltips go quite in depth |
| 06:41.21 | Renee | But I would rather to have new features :( |
| 06:41.24 | rtschutter | They told me they fixed a bunch of bugs with the game attribute system |
| 06:42.25 | ArcanePariah | But yeah, I think the highlight will be extension mods, bunch of noobies will be able to put together simple concepts and publish them and people will see how they work on different custom maps, and mix/match them |
| 06:43.19 | ArcanePariah | Who knows, maybe we new mapmakers out of it, extension mods seem like a way to ease people into the editor since to make a mod takes very little knowledge of the editor |
| 06:43.24 | rtschutter | YES they added the ability to set the default attribute for player attributes in mod files |
| 06:44.06 | Renee | I guess 2.0.11 is suppsed to be a part of the patch 2.1, they just splited them in two. |
| 06:44.18 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, possibly |
| 06:45.09 | JademusSreg | Frame strings in the client seem less diffuse. |
| 06:45.13 | ArcanePariah | I guess extension mods are there way of making modding easy and fun for people, so they won't have to deal with the entirety of the editor to make something cool? |
| 06:45.42 | rtschutter | What do you mean? Extension mod is just like a normal mod except you can use it on any map (sort of) |
| 06:46.11 | rtschutter | requires the same knowledge I think |
| 06:46.16 | ArcanePariah | Exactly, which means you don't have to make a variant of every melee map or even a map at all |
| 06:46.20 | ArcanePariah | So far less work |
| 06:46.31 | ArcanePariah | and also, all you really need to know is small parts of the data editor |
| 06:46.41 | ArcanePariah | Don't need to do terrain, or triggers or AI |
| 06:46.46 | Renee | And you doesn't need to paint the Terrains |
| 06:47.03 | Renee | Still could use some triggers, actually |
| 06:47.04 | rtschutter | Don't get me wrong, nobody appreciates that more than me because I had to upload over 100 maps for the old GameHeart but I don't think most people were doing that anyways |
| 06:47.39 | JademusSreg | Woah. |
| 06:47.41 | ArcanePariah | True Renee, mod files can include trigger libraries, but not really useful unless triggers can detect a libraray is loaded or not? |
| 06:47.49 | JademusSreg | Some odd stuff in here. |
| 06:47.53 | rtschutter | lol |
| 06:47.55 | rtschutter | Arcane |
| 06:48.01 | rtschutter | you can preload a library into a map |
| 06:48.17 | rtschutter | Blizzard told me how when I complained about it |
| 06:48.27 | rtschutter | right click the library and give it an ID |
| 06:48.36 | Renee | You can force a lib to be loaded. That what I did in GAx3 |
| 06:48.38 | ArcanePariah | Oh yeah, in the gameplay data |
| 06:48.42 | ArcanePariah | IIRC |
| 06:48.44 | rtschutter | yeah exactly |
| 06:49.16 | ArcanePariah | Correct me if im wrong, but custom maps can only be custom data, no trigger modifications? |
| 06:49.25 | ArcanePariah | Otherwise it becomes an arcade map |
| 06:49.28 | ArcanePariah | ? |
| 06:49.32 | Renee | nop |
| 06:49.37 | rtschutter | you can add triggers to an extension mod |
| 06:49.56 | rtschutter | if you add abnormal functions to a melee map it just becomes custom |
| 06:49.57 | rtschutter | not arcade |
| 06:50.10 | Renee | It seems they made it much easier in 2.1. In patch 1.5 you need to modify the data too make the libs too be automaticly loaded |
| 06:50.10 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so it is a semantic distincition only |
| 06:50.31 | rtschutter | sort of...it remains in the custom games section and not the arcade section which is a significant distinction |
| 06:50.57 | ArcanePariah | But in functionality terms, one could put any arcade map in custom map section and vice versa? |
| 06:51.00 | Renee | Custom or Aracde, it just depended on where you upload. |
| 06:51.05 | ArcanePariah | Ok |
| 06:51.13 | rtschutter | yeah it doesn't make much difference honestly |
| 06:51.23 | rtschutter | except in how people perceive it |
| 06:51.25 | Renee | You can upload a arcade map to the custom map section |
| 06:51.36 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/ps7ry |
| 06:52.15 | JademusSreg | It's messy in some parts, but much better organized than previous patches. |
| 06:52.31 | rtschutter | So how about it Renee, if anyone will know an answer to this it would be you. How can I show a text tag only to observers without using an observer ID? Possible? |
| 06:52.57 | ArcanePariah | rtschutter, use a text actor? |
| 06:53.14 | Renee | Yep, text actor is a good idea |
| 06:53.19 | rtschutter | text actor? |
| 06:53.30 | JademusSreg | On line 969, that's rather novel. |
| 06:53.33 | rtschutter | can I show an image with a text actor? |
| 06:53.39 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 06:53.41 | ArcanePariah | img tag |
| 06:53.41 | Renee | yes |
| 06:54.08 | ArcanePariah | <img path = "Path/to/image/here" width = "" height = ""/> |
| 06:54.09 | rtschutter | okay I will look into it, though I suppose that means I have to go back to using Renee's phasing tech to hide them |
| 06:54.16 | ArcanePariah | ??? |
| 06:54.39 | rtschutter | which is sort of problematic because it has a problem with observers |
| 06:55.06 | Renee | The phasing doesn't really need. You can use actor filter to filter out the players |
| 06:55.16 | rtschutter | but without an observer id |
| 06:55.27 | rtschutter | how do you show it to the observer then if you filter it for players? |
| 06:55.48 | ArcanePariah | Gimme one moment |
| 06:57.26 | Renee | Ok, I misunderstood your scheme. So you want to make it unable to be seem by any players? Then the phasing is a good way to do that |
| 06:57.59 | rtschutter | the problem is that the phasing tech does not always work correctly with observers |
| 06:58.08 | rtschutter | if they have their flyer helper setting set to 'always' |
| 06:58.14 | Renee | hmmm |
| 06:58.17 | rtschutter | it seems you cannot override the setting for observers |
| 06:58.31 | ArcanePariah | Dumb question, can't one use the IsLocalParticiapantType term in actor messages to only create if the viewer is observer? |
| 06:58.41 | Renee | You can still do that |
| 06:59.13 | Renee | Wait 1 min.. |
| 06:59.56 | rtschutter | I would prefer to use Blizzards actor filtering system if possible so when the observer switches to the player's perspective all the stuff they aren't supposed to see disappears for the observer |
| 07:00.05 | rtschutter | but I don't see any way to use it without an observer ID |
| 07:00.15 | rtschutter | and I can't make an extension mod that requires an observer ID |
| 07:00.34 | ArcanePariah | question... are observers by definition neutral? |
| 07:00.44 | ArcanePariah | having neutral allaince type? |
| 07:00.48 | rtschutter | they used GameHeart as an example of something that could be used with extension mods but in reality it cant |
| 07:01.02 | rtschutter | I am not sure |
| 07:01.14 | rtschutter | I manually set their alliance type with observer ID |
| 07:02.11 | JademusSreg | Nap time. |
| 07:02.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah_ (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:02.52 | ArcanePariah_ | so my interwebz wen't derp |
| 07:02.55 | Renee | Your Term here; IsLocalParticipantType Observer |
| 07:03.15 | ArcanePariah_ | Yeah, eithe that or use HasAllianceWith |
| 07:03.37 | Renee | Use actor term :IsLocalParticipantType , you can filter if local machine is OB |
| 07:03.39 | ArcanePariah_ | HasAlliance with states that for the given allaince state you provide (self/ally/neutral/enemy) it will hide that |
| 07:04.08 | rtschutter | wait how do I use that term? |
| 07:04.21 | ArcanePariah_ | On actor creation |
| 07:04.25 | Renee | <On index="0" Terms="UnitBirth.Marine; IsLocalParticipantType Observer" Send="Create"/> |
| 07:04.27 | Renee | etc |
| 07:04.30 | ArcanePariah_ | ^ |
| 07:05.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:05.18 | rtschutter | hmm |
| 07:05.56 | rtschutter | I am not sure how to use that to do what I need to do |
| 07:06.34 | Renee | So what you want to do? Display what text? When? |
| 07:07.15 | rtschutter | well lets ignore the text stuff for now |
| 07:07.16 | Renee | Do you planing to use triggers to create the texts? |
| 07:07.23 | rtschutter | yes |
| 07:07.29 | rtschutter | I put decals in the player's mineral lines |
| 07:07.36 | rtschutter | representing their team they select in the lobby |
| 07:07.43 | rtschutter | but only observers see these decals |
| 07:07.50 | rtschutter | I have to create them through triggers |
| 07:08.41 | Renee | Then you can create the text actor with triggers, then |
| 07:08.43 | ArcanePariah | Ok seems simple enough, on creation of 1st (CC/Nexus/Hatcher), create text actor, and use site ops to place it near minierals |
| 07:08.43 | Renee | <On index="0" Terms="ActorCreation; !IsLocalParticipantType Observer" Send="SetVisibility 1"/> |
| 07:08.59 | Renee | typo, should be:<On index="0" Terms="ActorCreation; !IsLocalParticipantType Observer" Send="SetVisibility 0"/> |
| 07:09.15 | rtschutter | okay |
| 07:09.23 | rtschutter | so that will hide it for the players then? |
| 07:09.33 | ArcanePariah | Yep |
| 07:09.43 | rtschutter | ok cool let me give that a try |
| 07:09.48 | rtschutter | you guys might be saving my ass |
| 07:10.07 | ArcanePariah | The underling main deal with actors is that they are asychronous, what a given players sees ONLY applies to that player, other players can see sometihng completely different... |
| 07:11.39 | rtschutter | yeah that is good for me but it is difficult to make use of given the tools available |
| 07:12.01 | Renee | Don't forget the "!", ! means 'not' |
| 07:12.18 | Renee | You can't enter ! in gui, so you need to switch to xml view |
| 07:13.05 | rtschutter | yeah I am discovering that now |
| 07:13.06 | rtschutter | haha |
| 07:13.17 | rtschutter | renee your gax3 stuff has helped me so much on my project |
| 07:14.36 | Renee | I'm going to update GAx3 with the new actor filter feature added in 2.0.11. So that the phasing would work under observer. |
| 07:15.42 | rtschutter | if you do you should use a pod file |
| 07:15.48 | rtschutter | or set one up anyways |
| 07:16.10 | rtschutter | so people can choose to always use the latest version or have it always use the static version |
| 07:16.15 | rtschutter | pod file is my name for a container mod |
| 07:16.31 | Renee | Ok, that's a good idea :) |
| 07:17.04 | rtschutter | hopefully blizzard will change it so you can 'use latest version' with other people's documents at some point |
| 07:17.07 | rtschutter | so we dont have to do that |
| 07:17.32 | ArcanePariah | rtschutter, you can already do that with mod files |
| 07:17.41 | ArcanePariah | You can set to always use latest version |
| 07:17.57 | rtschutter | only with your own documents |
| 07:18.06 | Renee | this feature only works for your own mods ArcanePariah. |
| 07:18.10 | ArcanePariah | :( |
| 07:18.12 | ArcanePariah | lame |
| 07:18.14 | rtschutter | but if you put your mod |
| 07:18.17 | rtschutter | inside of another mod |
| 07:18.23 | Renee | yep |
| 07:18.24 | rtschutter | with it set to 'use latest version' |
| 07:18.28 | rtschutter | you can effectively do the same thing |
| 07:18.29 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, just chain dependencies |
| 07:18.49 | rtschutter | okay so |
| 07:18.58 | rtschutter | this new actor visibility thing sort of does what I need |
| 07:19.14 | ArcanePariah | I'm curious, can one create a public mod file that simply has all your private mods as dependencies? |
| 07:19.39 | rtschutter | yes |
| 07:19.40 | ArcanePariah | so its public, but presents as one unified mod, as opposed to your collection |
| 07:19.59 | rtschutter | I don't see why not |
| 07:20.16 | Bommes|2 | hmm, are there actual patch notes for the ptr somewhere? I'm sure they changed small things and fixed bugs that were around for the last few months |
| 07:20.26 | ArcanePariah | Bommes|2, so far no |
| 07:20.27 | Bommes|2 | it would be nice to have patch notes for that... |
| 07:20.35 | ArcanePariah | Indeed |
| 07:20.58 | rtschutter | Bommes I can tell you they fixed a ton of bugs with the game attribute system |
| 07:21.04 | rtschutter | particularly how they deal with mod files |
| 07:21.53 | Renee | Did they fixed the compatibility issue with ATI CCC 13.9? |
| 07:22.05 | rtschutter | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jp5Cu5YvLaVgZaze-FYn1DbVNKJxyOzohNjIk0Q6pZ8/edit?usp=sharing |
| 07:22.12 | rtschutter | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KbG72QlM42nxk6q3KMUOybuwBi2uEXYfXDNyGOmJ344/edit?usp=sharing |
| 07:22.18 | rtschutter | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aMJDRQyT_DKA9EILdWzlZYKJj28h5T--rU5dmr0VQkM/edit?usp=sharing |
| 07:22.24 | rtschutter | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I_2bp-DKzRjsr6ksst_XcdhL84sHZQf6dMEh4mCJC0c/edit?usp=sharing |
| 07:22.35 | rtschutter | They told me they fixed all of those things |
| 07:23.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-167.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 07:23.52 | Renee | I still have some works to be done before I can get my hands on the editor :( |
| 07:24.58 | Kueken | Bommes: Considering the myriads of undocumented changes, a changelog wouldn't be all that helpful anyway :D |
| 07:27.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 07:29.18 | rtschutter | When I create an actor |
| 07:29.23 | rtschutter | without an observer ID |
| 07:29.31 | rtschutter | the observer doesn't see it by default for some reason |
| 07:31.46 | rtschutter | what the hell |
| 07:31.59 | rtschutter | maybe this is a new bug in 2.1? |
| 07:32.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 07:40.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 07:42.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.202.220.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:43.31 | Renee | It's impossible |
| 07:44.09 | Renee | My codes doesn't work for you, rtschutter? |
| 07:44.23 | rtschutter | I am not sure yet |
| 07:44.28 | rtschutter | I have uncovered something strange |
| 07:44.39 | rtschutter | when I create an actor it doesn't show up for observers by default for some reason |
| 07:44.56 | rtschutter | but once you switch to a player's vision |
| 07:44.59 | rtschutter | it shows up |
| 07:45.06 | rtschutter | and will remain there when you go back to 'everyone' vision |
| 07:45.45 | rtschutter | very strange...but it appears to work this way in both 2.0 and 2.1 |
| 07:46.18 | rtschutter | even using your code to set visibility for observer on actor creation does not help that |
| 07:46.35 | Renee | But I pretty sure it would display by default. I tested it before I paste the code to you/ |
| 07:46.51 | duckies | huh, 2.1 is out? |
| 07:46.52 | rtschutter | your code works fine for hiding something from the players |
| 07:47.06 | rtschutter | but hiding it from the players doesn't do me any good if it is also hidden from the observers |
| 07:47.11 | rtschutter | now I need a way to show it to the observers |
| 07:48.44 | ArcanePariah | duckies, PTR was released 4 hours ago |
| 07:48.50 | Renee | Wait 1 min, I will upload my testing map to sc2mapster |
| 07:49.00 | ArcanePariah | Editor has mostly tooltips and bug fixes |
| 07:49.11 | ArcanePariah | Plus (imo) performacne optimizations, feels snappier |
| 07:49.16 | duckies | ooh.. thanks ArcanePariah! |
| 07:49.28 | duckies | no mapster thread? :D |
| 07:49.28 | Renee | nearly 10000 words of new tooltips |
| 07:49.46 | Renee | I will need to translate them for my CN community |
| 07:49.50 | ArcanePariah | Better get downloading, since its a ptr, is a full download of the client again, 13 gigs |
| 07:50.00 | duckies | >.> |
| 07:50.16 | ArcanePariah | Renee, by any chance could you determine which editor fields those tooltips go to? |
| 07:50.26 | ArcanePariah | Some I've seen (mostly actor related) but others not so much |
| 07:50.28 | Renee | of course I can |
| 07:50.55 | Renee | I can't relay on official translations, the people in Blizzard China doesn't seems to know anything about the editor :( |
| 07:51.08 | ArcanePariah | :( |
| 07:51.11 | Kueken | noobs |
| 07:51.46 | ArcanePariah | Well I can tell you this much, for all actors, the flags fields all now have tooltips (Add to external finder, Not Saved, Suppress creation error and Respionse to UNit Player change) |
| 07:51.55 | ArcanePariah | Also, Model Flags all have tooltips now |
| 07:52.19 | Renee | http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/45/509/ShowForOB.SC2Map |
| 07:52.49 | Renee | ArcanePariah, you can download it and test on your machine. It works for me at least |
| 07:53.41 | Renee | The map would create a 'Char Crystal' model at the center of the map |
| 07:53.49 | Renee | but only the OB could see it |
| 07:54.43 | ArcanePariah | Whats the argument for the test document to be an observer? |
| 07:55.00 | ArcanePariah | Or do I just change the player in player properites |
| 07:55.31 | ArcanePariah | But yes, I didn't see the crystla when I ran it |
| 07:56.08 | rtschutter | I don't understand why this actor is showing up for observers in your map |
| 07:56.09 | ArcanePariah | Actually, since we on the subject, how does one make a slot an observer? |
| 07:56.11 | rtschutter | but not in mine |
| 07:56.57 | rtschutter | arcane if you set all players in player properties to computer |
| 07:57.06 | rtschutter | it will make you an observer by default |
| 07:57.19 | ArcanePariah | Thanks |
| 07:57.23 | rtschutter | what is this observer_land actor? is it relevant? |
| 07:57.55 | Renee | nop |
| 07:58.15 | Renee | It's just a random modify |
| 07:58.26 | Renee | You just need to look at the 'Char Crystal' |
| 07:58.52 | ArcanePariah | Welp, works for my, observer can see it, normal players can't |
| 07:59.08 | Renee | Fine~~ |
| 07:59.09 | rtschutter | yeah |
| 07:59.13 | rtschutter | I am not even touching data |
| 07:59.16 | rtschutter | just trying to show an actor |
| 07:59.21 | rtschutter | and it wont show up for observers |
| 07:59.31 | rtschutter | once you switch to player view it shows up fine |
| 07:59.38 | rtschutter | switch back to everyone and it remains on screen |
| 07:59.56 | rtschutter | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49867307/SC2Help/no_actor.SC2Map |
| 08:01.05 | Renee | I'm doing works, so wait some mins |
| 08:03.45 | Renee | rtschutter, have you tried 'Showmap' cheat after you get into the game? |
| 08:04.20 | Renee | some actors are configed as not display under black mask |
| 08:04.28 | Renee | i.e fow |
| 08:05.11 | rtschutter | but the are it is being rendered is revealed anyways |
| 08:05.14 | rtschutter | area* |
| 08:05.14 | Kueken | do you need the bnet desktop application to access the PTR? |
| 08:05.21 | rtschutter | yes |
| 08:05.42 | Renee | At least my map works for you, rtschutter? |
| 08:05.44 | Kueken | alright, getting that, I guess |
| 08:06.12 | rtschutter | yeah it does |
| 08:06.16 | rtschutter | well sort of |
| 08:06.26 | rtschutter | the actor stays visible |
| 08:06.31 | rtschutter | even when you switch to player vision |
| 08:06.41 | rtschutter | which is bad for me |
| 08:07.00 | Renee | The players won't see them |
| 08:07.14 | Renee | only Obervers |
| 08:07.26 | rtschutter | yeah but when the observer switches to the players vision |
| 08:07.29 | rtschutter | he still sees them |
| 08:07.36 | rtschutter | they do not disappear like when using the actor filtering |
| 08:07.51 | rtschutter | which is unfortunate |
| 08:08.09 | Renee | It is based on machine |
| 08:08.21 | Renee | And you don't want let the OB to see your actor when they switch actors? |
| 08:08.48 | rtschutter | ideally when the observer switches to the player's vision the game would look exactly like the player sees it |
| 08:08.59 | rtschutter | using the actor filters did this which was nice |
| 08:09.16 | rtschutter | but using a set visibility event does not unfortunately |
| 08:09.32 | Renee | Then you need to use the filters |
| 08:10.12 | rtschutter | I can't |
| 08:10.13 | Renee | I didn't know what you exact want before I give you that code |
| 08:10.15 | rtschutter | not without observer ID |
| 08:10.18 | rtschutter | it is a conundrum |
| 08:10.29 | Renee | You can do it |
| 08:10.31 | rtschutter | your code is still the best solution for me so far |
| 08:10.39 | Renee | wait 1 min |
| 08:10.47 | rtschutter | if you filter an actor for both players |
| 08:10.52 | rtschutter | or all active players in a game |
| 08:10.58 | rtschutter | it filters it for the observer as well |
| 08:11.07 | rtschutter | just like text tags |
| 08:11.19 | rtschutter | unless you setup an observer ID...which I can't do when working with extension mods |
| 08:11.34 | Renee | And about you map-> I found where it goes wrong |
| 08:12.16 | rtschutter | lol all it does is create an actor, something I have done a million times before...how could I fuck up that one line? |
| 08:13.10 | Renee | Because When the game start, the whole map is covered under fog |
| 08:13.44 | Renee | basicly, this doodad doesn't show under fog unless if you discovered it once |
| 08:14.01 | Renee | at the same time |
| 08:14.11 | Renee | the start units are created |
| 08:14.13 | rtschutter | shouldn't it be revealed the second the area is revealed? |
| 08:14.30 | Renee | It just doesn't have time to do that |
| 08:14.44 | Renee | all things happened when game start |
| 08:15.02 | rtschutter | so I just picked the wrong actor to do my testing with then? |
| 08:15.09 | Renee | yep |
| 08:15.18 | rtschutter | well thats good news |
| 08:15.24 | Renee | start units are created at the sametime it hide itself |
| 08:16.33 | Renee | change the actor's Fog Visibility to Visible |
| 08:16.44 | Renee | And it would display |
| 08:17.01 | rtschutter | okay |
| 08:17.13 | rtschutter | so what did you mean about the actor filtering working for observers? |
| 08:20.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
| 08:25.32 | G0A | hey Stewox do you believe there was moon landing? |
| 08:32.13 | Kueken | nah, they faked it and showed pictures from Saturn |
| 08:32.29 | Kueken | photoshopped out the rings |
| 08:35.00 | kingTD | hmm so ptr for someone online? |
| 08:35.57 | ArcanePariah | You need to download the blizzard desktop app |
| 08:36.33 | kingTD | cool |
| 08:36.34 | kingTD | i see |
| 08:36.53 | kingTD | some errors giving me that fucker so |
| 08:37.01 | kingTD | but patching shit up |
| 08:37.58 | G0A | whhhhaaat? ptr is online? |
| 08:38.05 | kingTD | yep |
| 08:38.16 | kingTD | at least for TB |
| 08:40.27 | kingTD | http://imgur.com/rHuZnOs |
| 08:41.39 | G0A | loool |
| 08:42.12 | kingTD | hmmm |
| 08:42.19 | kingTD | sad will have 2 starcrafts :/ |
| 08:42.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster ElectricPrism (~Loren@unaffiliated/electricprism) |
| 08:43.53 | G0A | it will instal sc2 again? |
| 08:44.16 | ArcanePariah | Yes. since its a ptr, full seperate client download |
| 08:44.22 | G0A | sc2 patch notes in heartstone: http://pbrd.co/1900VX2 :D |
| 08:44.56 | proprietarysucks | I was literally just typing out does anyone know the patch notes |
| 08:45.10 | ArcanePariah | nope, they haven't been posted yet |
| 08:45.16 | G0A | how much gb does ptr install? |
| 08:45.44 | proprietarysucks | yuck what the hell is that game on your screen? diablo 3? :( |
| 08:45.47 | G0A | proprietarysucks its heartstone patchnotes with sc2 header |
| 08:46.53 | ArcanePariah | G0A 13 gigs |
| 08:47.13 | proprietarysucks | I beleive it's just literally another install |
| 08:47.24 | proprietarysucks | except they share the registry for settings |
| 08:47.24 | ArcanePariah | yes |
| 08:47.44 | proprietarysucks | last ptr every time I would start it it would reset all my game settings for my real game |
| 08:47.55 | proprietarysucks | or I think that was d3 that was doing that |
| 08:47.56 | proprietarysucks | whatever |
| 08:49.09 | kingTD | EVERYTHING IS LAGGGGGGGGGGGINGGGGGGGGGGG |
| 08:49.59 | proprietarysucks | no its |
| 08:51.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (322e8dd1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.46.141.209) |
| 08:51.38 | proprietarysucks | not |
| 08:51.48 | ArcanePariah | sup deadz |
| 08:52.00 | ArcanePariah | PTR is up, if you are interested |
| 08:52.03 | DeadZergling | hi arcane, not too much, just got done cooking my dinner |
| 08:52.24 | DeadZergling | aye I heard, 15 gigs though, don't got enough time tonight for that, lol |
| 08:53.56 | DeadZergling | this is the one that is supposed to make all arcade free to play, correct? |
| 08:54.31 | proprietarysucks | there's arcade that's not free? |
| 08:54.34 | ArcanePariah | yes |
| 08:55.06 | DeadZergling | good news for me, means I can mess around on anything, HoTS or not |
| 08:55.32 | kingTD | interesting if u would start installing and then stop |
| 08:56.04 | kingTD | replace all files with previous files how much time will u save by having files already of previous sc2 |
| 08:56.53 | proprietarysucks | does it install via torrent? |
| 08:57.29 | proprietarysucks | if it does, or if the download manager uses checksum then that would work, so long as it doesn't use a tmp directory first |
| 08:57.37 | proprietarysucks | you can verify that with procmon |
| 08:57.43 | proprietarysucks | or by trying it :) |
| 08:57.53 | proprietarysucks | though a copy will take a long time too |
| 08:58.02 | kingTD | already in the action sequance |
| 08:58.10 | kingTD | 5 mins |
| 08:58.15 | kingTD | mods files |
| 08:58.22 | kingTD | next campaign files |
| 09:03.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Stewox_ (~chatzilla@cpe-86-58-34-166.static.triera.net) |
| 09:07.10 | kingTD | "(10:25:37) G0A: hey Stewox_ do you believe there was moon landing?" |
| 09:07.50 | G0A | wanted to link him this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NlXtb4N7oc |
| 09:09.21 | kingTD | idk idk; seems like did really made a difference in copying those files in |
| 09:11.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster KaeltenAway (Kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 09:11.21 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+o KaeltenAway] by ChanServ |
| 09:11.27 | proprietarysucks | it should, so long as it does checksums |
| 09:12.04 | proprietarysucks | some day file systems will be exporting block checksums to layer 7 |
| 09:12.15 | proprietarysucks | and common apps will support checksums per block |
| 09:12.37 | proprietarysucks | then you could copy a 10g file over and if the new version were different, it would only download the difference instead of the new 10g file |
| 09:13.43 | kingTD | previous downloader seems like worked that way just great here not seems like it |
| 09:14.36 | Stewox_ | that's all tinkertoy stuff G0A |
| 09:14.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster Stewox (~chatzilla@cpe-86-58-34-166.static.triera.net) |
| 09:15.53 | G0A | Stewox its first video of serious which points out how retarded are moon conspiracies |
| 09:16.00 | G0A | series |
| 09:16.39 | DeadZergling | didn't mythbusters do a thing on the moon landing too? |
| 09:16.42 | Stewox | ahaha |
| 09:16.51 | Stewox | you're not even looking at the stuff |
| 09:17.07 | Stewox | look man, you want to see real deal stuff ? |
| 09:17.22 | Stewox | about the moon |
| 09:17.50 | DeadZergling | finally, I will know what kind of cheese it is made out of |
| 09:18.00 | G0A | yeah once you showed me sties full of epic portions of retardness about moon |
| 09:20.00 | Stewox | ahah mythbusters, i saw that one, ridicolous just like the tesla earthquake machine which was such a joke |
| 09:21.58 | Stewox | mythbusters are smart, the main 2 guys, the other 3 are ignorant and the most ignorant out of them is kari byron who's a rabbit obama supporter |
| 09:22.13 | DeadZergling | dissing tesla in here, I'd say you are very brave, but I know you are just very stupid |
| 09:22.17 | Stewox | classic californian |
| 09:22.56 | DeadZergling | While I have no love of California, I'm really tired of hearing an arrogant person with no intellect or logic about him. |
| 09:23.04 | DeadZergling | Just shut the fuck up already Stewox. |
| 09:24.07 | Stewox | I don't think the nasa moon landing thing was scripted, they just took the tinkertoy stuff, but the joke was, where Nasa used their laser to "confirm" that the "laser has shoot the mirror and came back down" ... saying that the mirror was put there all those years ago like they knew 50 years they're going to use lasers |
| 09:24.13 | ArcanePariah | Wut about California? (I live there :D) |
| 09:24.32 | DeadZergling | The separation of it from the main continent can't happen soon enough. |
| 09:24.34 | proprietarysucks | I saw something about the moonlanding before that was pretty insane let me find it |
| 09:27.47 | Stewox | ofcourse there are good and okay people from california, but compared to the rest of USA; california has the highest percentage of yappie trendy stupid zombies all they do is post stupid shit videos of themselfs on youtube, the most ignorant people on the planet, the hidden war that's going on you don't know about, these creatures can't find any real jobs and it's a mass exodus of californians fle |
| 09:27.49 | Stewox | eing to Texas, but because they're stupid, they call police on their neighbours shooting guns in the back yard and police come and take LEGAL guns away and it's causing MASSIVE illegal imprisonment and gun confiscation in Texas because of these stupid ass californians being all scared when neighbour practice shoots their firearms |
| 09:29.05 | Stewox | california is the center of the entertainment crap so it's not really surprising, you have all these rattlifers who live on foodstamps and walking drunk all day on the beach |
| 09:29.34 | Stewox | if you want to see more stupid californians, check out markdice youtube channel |
| 09:29.47 | DeadZergling | says he who probably doesn't even have a job |
| 09:29.48 | G0A | Stewox they used lasers 50 years ago and lots of university can do that laser shooting experiment with good telescopes... |
| 09:30.25 | Stewox | well that mirror could have been put there later, it's a terrible thing to use for a "proof of moon landing" |
| 09:30.35 | G0A | NASA knew long time ago that lasers will be the future of the space communication to bad that its only starting to happening now |
| 09:30.40 | Stewox | but it doesn't matter, they did went up there I think |
| 09:30.49 | Stewox | but the images are still manipulated |
| 09:31.12 | Stewox | because it's actually not a question if they went up, it's a question WHAT THEY FOUND up there |
| 09:31.29 | DeadZergling | aliens and elvis, I'm sure |
| 09:31.42 | G0A | its a not a fucking proof of moon landing you idiot its a scientific experiment you can calculate earth moon distance very well with it. |
| 09:32.11 | Stewox | yes but mythbusters used it as a proof of "they went up those 50 years ago" |
| 09:32.18 | DeadZergling | don't mind me G0A, I've given up on him, all he is worthy of is half assed wise cracks now |
| 09:32.21 | Stewox | not mythbusters, it's all scripted |
| 09:32.40 | G0A | yeah 400k people worked on an imaginer project, I guess nuclear bombs arent real too. |
| 09:32.47 | proprietarysucks | hmm it was some video where they showed some famous shot of earth and then they pull back and it's clearly not |
| 09:33.05 | G0A | imaginary* |
| 09:33.12 | Stewox | the producers, not the 2 guys, they're very smart and have their own opinions, they know this political system doesn't work well, i watched mythbusters extremely often from the get to, it was my favourite show along with dirty jobs and deadliest catch |
| 09:33.29 | Stewox | i wasn't dissing on tesla you got that so wrong |
| 09:33.44 | G0A | who do fuck cares about mythbusters |
| 09:34.16 | G0A | grats for liking mass produced stupid shows btw |
| 09:34.39 | Stewox | proprietarysucks maybe it's in some of the compilations, i have some of the stuff right here, but i won't be able to find all the stuff so fast, i have a few things ... |
| 09:35.08 | G0A | those shows destroyed those channels which used to air at least some stuff related to science, today the only watchable such channel are NOVA... |
| 09:35.28 | Stewox | I was 16 years old at the time and didn't had a great computer i have now so stop shitting around G0A if you don't know the whole story, stop assuming everything |
| 09:35.58 | G0A | story of what? |
| 09:35.59 | Stewox | ofcourse I know discovery channel is shit now, it looks like MTV |
| 09:36.16 | Stewox | i told you the story |
| 09:36.23 | G0A | and yes its not your fault that you are not well educated, but you can still change that you know.... |
| 09:37.03 | Stewox | discovery channel used to be really good, all the great stuff like ray mears, all great produced shows, now it's full of auto-moto shit |
| 09:37.11 | G0A | starting by reading usefull books instead of watching stupid shows |
| 09:37.28 | Stewox | you're telling that to me |
| 09:37.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster maltenp (~maltenp@c-31e170d5.09-37-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:37.40 | Stewox | go fuck your self man, I already read books |
| 09:37.46 | G0A | grats |
| 09:37.52 | Stewox | stop talking to me like that |
| 09:37.56 | G0A | now start reading non fantasy books |
| 09:37.57 | Stewox | like I don't know now |
| 09:38.10 | DeadZergling | playboy don't count, Stewox |
| 09:38.16 | Stewox | hey |
| 09:38.18 | G0A | :) |
| 09:38.18 | Stewox | tesla thing |
| 09:38.28 | Stewox | was all denied |
| 09:38.29 | DeadZergling | yea I know, you read it for the articles |
| 09:38.32 | Stewox | when it worked |
| 09:38.43 | Stewox | I posted a big explanation on MBFC |
| 09:38.59 | Stewox | the moderators also responded but didn't agreed with me, but I can't find the posts anymore |
| 09:39.05 | Stewox | it was quite some time ago |
| 09:39.05 | G0A | yeah tesla thing as I said yesterday its the "magical radiation" the best theme of conspiracy theroists. |
| 09:39.32 | Stewox | shut up man and let me explain what I'm talking about |
| 09:39.58 | Stewox | so are you aware of the mythbusters episode on tesla earthquake machine deadzergling ? |
| 09:40.04 | Stewox | did you see it in full ? |
| 09:40.22 | DeadZergling | haven't seen that one, they are fun to watch now and then |
| 09:40.28 | DeadZergling | but I don't keep up on them too much |
| 09:42.24 | proprietarysucks | I feel like deepak chopra is retarded |
| 09:44.40 | Stewox | oh crap youtube deleted all videos, can't find anything |
| 09:45.25 | Stewox | i can't tell this story then unless someone is familiar with the story |
| 09:45.30 | Stewox | going back to the moon |
| 09:45.45 | G0A | yes lets go back to the moon |
| 09:45.49 | G0A | what happened? |
| 09:46.02 | G0A | you didnt say what did NASA exactly do? |
| 09:46.29 | DeadZergling | space rats were released, eating it all because it is cheese |
| 09:46.39 | DeadZergling | due to the infestation, the moon only has a few more decades to live |
| 09:46.41 | DeadZergling | enjoy it while you can |
| 09:47.01 | Stewox | there's the real deal stuff G0A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlLN_Jcg1pc |
| 09:47.09 | Stewox | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22pk2polNeA |
| 09:47.15 | Stewox | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pnpACVboeI |
| 09:47.22 | Stewox | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdjaDo3Uc3Q |
| 09:47.28 | Stewox | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUXfOtVpWI |
| 09:52.47 | proprietarysucks | Stewex I've been thinking about helping the needy since you talked to me |
| 09:52.58 | proprietarysucks | I think I'm going to join Plastic Surgeons Without Borders |
| 09:53.07 | proprietarysucks | http://videosift.com/video/Wonder-Showzen-Plastic-Surgeons-Without-Borders |
| 09:54.04 | kingTD | 500mb!! |
| 09:54.15 | G0A | Lets see 2 of those videos has nothing to do moon, they are about ufo-s (one is in the "faked" landing) |
| 09:55.14 | proprietarysucks | ufos were on set? |
| 09:55.40 | Stewox | can't find the DA coment flyby livestream ufo thing ... searching |
| 09:55.40 | proprietarysucks | did they have a spoken role? SAG will be all over nasa if they didn't get paid for that |
| 09:56.06 | Stewox | that is such a smoking gun |
| 09:58.29 | Stewox | this is not the comet thing, but it's part of the real deal stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5HhWrcMMKI |
| 09:58.44 | G0A | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22pk2polNeA clearly the guy who made that shit video has never heard of camera exposing... |
| 09:59.23 | Stewox | tell me about camera exposing |
| 09:59.34 | Stewox | so you're an expert on cameras now ? |
| 10:00.51 | G0A | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUXfOtVpWI is like"mars face" |
| 10:01.58 | G0A | ahh " ring makers" somebody somebody read too much scifi |
| 10:02.46 | G0A | Stewox I am have better than average knowledge of astronomy |
| 10:02.58 | G0A | I have a small telescope to start with... |
| 10:03.33 | G0A | though in the recent years I am not so interested about astronomy anymore |
| 10:04.13 | Stewox | irrelevant |
| 10:04.26 | G0A | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_(photography) |
| 10:04.34 | Stewox | if you don't know what to look for, your not going to find the stuff |
| 10:04.38 | Stewox | any |
| 10:04.49 | Stewox | and how does that prove your point ? |
| 10:04.56 | Stewox | first of all |
| 10:05.45 | Stewox | you didn't watch all of those videos, secondly, it's not just these ones, thirdly, youre a professional skeptik, fourthly nobody can argue something in 5 minutes |
| 10:05.47 | G0A | they cut out the stars in close exposures like the ones in that video because they will be shown all blurry... |
| 10:05.52 | Stewox | this is the stuff |
| 10:06.32 | Stewox | now if you're trying to make up some weird excuses by looking at the material for 5 minutes you're simply a joke, you have no problem solving skills, you just full of crap man |
| 10:06.36 | G0A | 3 of the 5 video you linked had nothing to do with the moon, it was about UFO-s |
| 10:06.49 | Stewox | read the book on saturn and all the stuff then you can make criticism |
| 10:07.00 | Stewox | im not talking about the moon landing |
| 10:07.17 | G0A | rofl |
| 10:07.18 | Stewox | it's a distraction |
| 10:07.41 | G0A | yes your conspiracy theories suck so much that I can debunk most of them under a minute. |
| 10:07.45 | Stewox | i don't cover fake conspiracy theories manufactured by the govt |
| 10:08.30 | Stewox | yes you're an idiot too, I told you, you're a professional skeptic, you don't look into anything, just push your position here |
| 10:08.40 | G0A | you care only about fake conspiracy theories manufactured by the citizens.. |
| 10:08.44 | Stewox | you look at the information with a predetermined and biased theory |
| 10:09.06 | G0A | I am skeptic because I do look into things |
| 10:09.06 | DeadZergling | professional, that's good, means he gets paid |
| 10:09.17 | Stewox | I don't know who you are, you might aswell be a shill of some kind, purposely trying to distract me, I'm too good man, it won't work |
| 10:09.26 | G0A | If you would accept everything on front then I wouldnt be skeptic... |
| 10:09.36 | proprietarysucks | where do you control the price increments for upgrade levels |
| 10:09.52 | Stewox | you know nothing about saturn |
| 10:10.02 | kingTD | http://pasteboard.co/1KiXdVcK.png |
| 10:10.04 | Stewox | the book is big, have your read it ? |
| 10:10.13 | G0A | Stewox yeah it must be my personality thats what causing the disturbance in your reality of absolute fantasy |
| 10:10.16 | ArcanePariah | god |
| 10:10.45 | Stewox | take a hike |
| 10:10.51 | Stewox | yesterday ... |
| 10:11.01 | G0A | I have to assure you that personalities dont effects is a certain thing is true or not |
| 10:11.09 | Stewox | there was a percect piece on what kind of people are around |
| 10:11.19 | Stewox | let me find that, maybe it'll open your eyes |
| 10:11.26 | proprietarysucks | or do you have to do it with the research index on the ability? |
| 10:11.30 | G0A | If I am all evil and I say 1+1=2 it wont make that statement false |
| 10:12.22 | G0A | I know much more about Saturn that you will ever know if you continue to live in this conspiracy fantasy world |
| 10:12.58 | G0A | Stewox try attacking facts instead of personalities. |
| 10:13.18 | G0A | that might finally give you some credibility. |
| 10:14.31 | DeadZergling | not sure he can ever regain any of that with me |
| 10:14.38 | Stewox | G0A can you shut off your arrogan bullshit for 10 minutes please, and watch the first 15 mintues of this video, it talks about how the term "conspiracy" has been associated with negativity, and lawyer Lionel talks about the kinds of people out there, professional skeptics etc, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGnJ7eSUx0A |
| 10:14.41 | G0A | kingTD are there any other note worthy new stuff? |
| 10:14.57 | kingTD | in the game itself doubt it |
| 10:15.03 | DeadZergling | he burned the fuck out his credibility bridge with me |
| 10:16.02 | Stewox | why did you assume I was dissing on tesla, you guys behave extremely biased from the get go, should I be a princess and behave like a fairy of some kind ? |
| 10:16.27 | DeadZergling | only if you send naughty fairy pics and talk dirty |
| 10:16.28 | G0A | Stewox you once again moved away the subject altogether because you cant take it that you know nothing about astronomy and your conspiracies about it are full of shit. |
| 10:17.40 | Stewox | watch that and shut up, it talks about exactly what the problem here is, communication, you're impossible to talk to, all you do is link wikipedia to try to prove your point |
| 10:17.57 | kingTD | Its just seems like wont be able to use HotS dependancies in map making? |
| 10:18.34 | Stewox | if you get out with the communication problem it's much easier and effective to talk then, why don't you try to fix this first |
| 10:20.30 | Stewox | g0a, you can skip 5 minutes http://youtu.be/iGnJ7eSUx0A?t=5m |
| 10:20.43 | G0A | Stewox still you try to confront my personality and not the subject. But yeah I am the one who are impossible to talk to |
| 10:21.29 | Stewox | you're the skeptic |
| 10:21.37 | G0A | So Stewox are the moon made from cheese and the UFO-s eating it up? |
| 10:21.47 | duckies | kingTD arcade is absolutely the same, right? |
| 10:22.00 | duckies | + are extensions just for custom games? |
| 10:22.08 | kingTD | new icon for arcade |
| 10:22.11 | kingTD | yeah |
| 10:22.23 | G0A | :( |
| 10:22.26 | kingTD | new icon in the menus |
| 10:22.36 | duckies | thanks, care to paste them? |
| 10:22.37 | Stewox | read the book loser |
| 10:22.49 | kingTD | ohhh interesting to test the afk function |
| 10:22.49 | G0A | book of what |
| 10:23.01 | Stewox | ringmakers of saturn |
| 10:23.13 | G0A | kingTD what about wol users, can you access hots maps? |
| 10:23.25 | kingTD | As I said before not seems like it |
| 10:23.31 | kingTD | in map editor |
| 10:23.46 | Stewox | you are talking before you even looked at anything, that is you subjective bs, it's not a scientific analysis |
| 10:23.49 | kingTD | in the Game yeah u get all those races, custom games, and shit |
| 10:23.50 | G0A | Stewox did you read that book? |
| 10:24.02 | kingTD | plus no published maps that would require hots |
| 10:24.12 | Stewox | I don't have it but I have the PDF version |
| 10:24.45 | duckies | yeah, kingTD check if this happens: "try to host 10 player map, knowing that it fills slowly alt-tab, when come back find out that you got kicked from your own lobby even though nobody joined it" |
| 10:25.13 | duckies | that would be awesome :D |
| 10:25.35 | kingTD | or just leave it and go fucking! |
| 10:25.51 | duckies | that works too :3 |
| 10:25.56 | kingTD | to see that fucker poop up and pooo itself |
| 10:26.17 | G0A | Stewox ok I already did some reading about that book, its based on voyager 1 visible light pictures of Saturn 30 year ago. That should be enough for me not to read it |
| 10:26.46 | proprietarysucks | I've worked out how to make an upgrade update its own price as you upgrade, but how do you make it change its button based on the level? |
| 10:27.24 | G0A | he makes all his observation on faint pictures, we have much better pictures since then on Saturn and even by ground observatory. |
| 10:27.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Raziel (~Raziel@31.220.209.56) |
| 10:27.56 | G0A | Though it must been cool at that revolution era of Voyager. |
| 10:28.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (~a@88.135.0.21) |
| 10:28.04 | Stewox | you will never learn anything because you're a professional skeptic, you're just one camp of the people, no matter what I show you, you have your stupid college school shit indoctrinated in your head, you're life was managed and programmed, that's what you are, a product of the system you just happen to be in a different camp than others |
| 10:28.12 | kingTD | Zolden got PTR? |
| 10:28.21 | Zolden | is it on? |
| 10:28.24 | kingTD | yeah |
| 10:28.40 | Zolden | and how to get it? |
| 10:29.00 | duckies | just download additional 13 gigs of sc2 zolden =D |
| 10:29.06 | Zolden | fuck it |
| 10:29.11 | Stewox | admit that your mind is compromised, your mindset, the way you think, the way you approach information, it's all biased, admit it, I had gone through the process and i know how it is like |
| 10:29.13 | G0A | Stewox again my personality try to argue what is said and not who is saying it |
| 10:29.32 | proprietarysucks | anyone anyone |
| 10:29.52 | Stewox | ofcourse it's your personality, youre just a bit different, you look into things, but you have no idea what you're looking at |
| 10:29.56 | G0A | Stewox I admint I am skeptic of everything. I better be skeptic than wrong. |
| 10:30.19 | Stewox | you won't learn anything besides the stuff you already have written in stone |
| 10:30.23 | duckies | sorry proprietary, have no experience in making data upgrades, can't help ;\ |
| 10:30.33 | Stewox | it's a false life, stop slowing yourself down |
| 10:31.08 | G0A | Stewox I never argued with you over things that I have no detailed knowledge of... thats why we end up at physics usually... |
| 10:31.09 | Stewox | you can't gather information normally, you've been duped by some physics book that has nothing to do with any of this |
| 10:31.41 | G0A | rofl |
| 10:31.55 | G0A | Physics related to everything... |
| 10:32.02 | G0A | to some degree |
| 10:32.06 | Stewox | why can't you gather information that I've shown you, without having the defense mechanism effect, that's whats causing me to swicth the topic because I can detect your triggers |
| 10:32.26 | Stewox | I never said you need to outright belive the stuff I shown you |
| 10:33.01 | Stewox | it's information gathering, take what you can, I know you will not understand everything on the first look at that video, it's a ton of info to process |
| 10:33.16 | G0A | Stewox 1 sided conversation arent long lasting and interesting |
| 10:33.41 | G0A | I am happy to discuss that saturn book |
| 10:33.51 | Stewox | but when you respond in such a way, it just makes you just like the others |
| 10:33.54 | G0A | I already doing that with you by saying my first opinions. |
| 10:34.32 | Stewox | you need to learn to look at info without having an reaction to the person who gave it to you |
| 10:35.01 | G0A | the problem is that you know nothing about astronomy and physics so our discussion will never be very deep on such subject |
| 10:35.57 | DeadZergling | you mean, the bright dots in the night sky aren't small tears in the cosmic cloth separating earth and heaven, G0A? |
| 10:35.59 | G0A | Stewox you are the one who said that you wont read the book I sent you because you cant find anything about it in your conspiracy circles. |
| 10:36.12 | Stewox | physics doesn't matter see, that's your preconditioned belief, that I am not worthy because I don't have a telescope and because I don't know how many celsius and elements turns a start to glow red or blue or yellow o |
| 10:36.44 | G0A | DeadZergling we are on flat earth and that is painting on the ceiling |
| 10:36.53 | DeadZergling | I knew it! |
| 10:36.57 | Zolden | penis |
| 10:37.11 | DeadZergling | I have one of those! |
| 10:37.33 | G0A | Stewox no, its because you think that physics is: "many celsius and elements turns a start to glow red or blue or yellow" |
| 10:37.55 | Stewox | half of the discussion is you joking with others, that just makes you so ineffective at basically every discussion, you're not fully into it mentally, how do you expect reason |
| 10:38.00 | G0A | That would be chemistry... |
| 10:38.34 | Stewox | I know enough to know that's not important, besides, I'm just the messenger, the info is out there |
| 10:38.43 | G0A | so the problem is I say physics and you dont know what did I say, because you dont even know what does physics mean |
| 10:38.46 | Stewox | because it's logic |
| 10:38.51 | proprietarysucks | hmm looks like they just do it manually |
| 10:39.15 | proprietarysucks | if you want to change icons then you have to basically do it all manually |
| 10:39.24 | Stewox | there is always more logic in conspiracy research than anything else, this is the first thing you need to know |
| 10:39.34 | DeadZergling | Think of it this way Stewox |
| 10:39.35 | G0A | You know its not important because you dont know at all what it is.... |
| 10:39.43 | DeadZergling | He speaks Swahili, you do not. |
| 10:39.56 | DeadZergling | Thus you have no basis to discuss anything Swahili with him. |
| 10:40.01 | Stewox | different areas require different knowledge, but you don't have to be an expert in any of those fields to understand it as a learner |
| 10:40.15 | G0A | "there is always more logic in conspiracy research than anything else, this is the first thing you need to know" where is Jade this must be saved into his quote collection |
| 10:40.46 | Stewox | see you even twist sentences, the context of them |
| 10:40.57 | Stewox | do you know what I mean with logic |
| 10:41.08 | G0A | no, in context that sentence is even more funnier |
| 10:41.19 | Stewox | logical field |
| 10:41.29 | G0A | great |
| 10:41.31 | Stewox | not physcis, chemistry, mathematics |
| 10:41.37 | G0A | that sound fantasy |
| 10:41.51 | Stewox | see you are compromised |
| 10:41.53 | halides | phys, chem, math not logical? |
| 10:42.01 | G0A | yeah logic has nothing to do with math |
| 10:42.04 | DeadZergling | Hi Zolden, I been browsing through wow weapons tonight |
| 10:42.04 | Stewox | you are preconditioned to extract humor out of this discussion |
| 10:42.07 | DeadZergling | holy shit is there a lot |
| 10:42.25 | halides | i smell... HUMANISTS! in my IRC! |
| 10:42.45 | Stewox | a mindset of a child man |
| 10:42.50 | DeadZergling | well to be technical, only Math is truly logical :P |
| 10:42.53 | Stewox | children laugh at every sentence |
| 10:43.00 | DeadZergling | the other studies aren't focused enough |
| 10:43.10 | halides | Stewox: they cry a lot, too |
| 10:43.15 | Stewox | in the context of understanding, it's not really the kind of math |
| 10:43.24 | halides | DeadZergling: 64871 items found? :-p |
| 10:43.36 | Stewox | the kind of math you have in all other areas |
| 10:43.37 | DeadZergling | not quite that many, 939, lol |
| 10:43.41 | DeadZergling | more than I'll ever need, lol |
| 10:44.20 | G0A | what math |
| 10:44.45 | Stewox | math you see in school |
| 10:44.53 | Stewox | this is logic |
| 10:45.09 | Stewox | and I have basic understnading of physics |
| 10:45.14 | Stewox | all the areas come together |
| 10:45.35 | DeadZergling | math you see in school........ most those teachers don't even get number systems beyond decimal based systems |
| 10:45.35 | Zolden | DeadZergling hey |
| 10:45.36 | Stewox | but I do not have to be a physcis and astronomy expert, to understand the book |
| 10:45.48 | kingTD | Ok was sitting in lobby for 15 mins alone nothing happens |
| 10:45.48 | Zolden | yea, wow is a huge pile of stuff |
| 10:46.02 | G0A | btw Stewox I found a nice review on your Saturn book: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1PLQNMMIRU87M/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0946270333&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag= |
| 10:46.08 | kingTD | need a companion |
| 10:46.08 | Stewox | kingTD you want to try a fun map ? |
| 10:46.12 | DeadZergling | if I get good with attachments, I'll definitely have my knight tri wielding |
| 10:46.18 | Zolden | kingTD what new stuff is there? |
| 10:46.21 | kingTD | no want to try the afk system |
| 10:46.22 | DeadZergling | thinking of trying to get the ghost equipping shit again too |
| 10:46.50 | DeadZergling | couldn't you just make a game of squadron TD |
| 10:46.55 | kingTD | Zol in the general bnet feel u already know |
| 10:46.59 | DeadZergling | oh wait, that'd fill up too fast |
| 10:47.06 | kingTD | in the editor a lot of broken strings |
| 10:47.09 | Stewox | you're looking at a review of some beginner who's totally inexperienced |
| 10:47.10 | kingTD | of display |
| 10:47.44 | Stewox | if you don't know the real world with political issues G0A, you're not quite ready for the higher levels either |
| 10:47.45 | Zolden | what new shit should it provide us with? |
| 10:47.49 | Zolden | io forgot |
| 10:47.56 | DeadZergling | lol, they even got nerf, wood, and bamboo swords |
| 10:48.01 | Zolden | pip maybe? |
| 10:48.31 | kingTD | unlocked races, mod support for melee maps, |
| 10:48.40 | kingTD | http://pasteboard.co/1KiXdVcK.png |
| 10:48.46 | Zolden | DeadZergling all those weapons require adding speculars |
| 10:49.16 | DeadZergling | hrrrrmmm? They all showing up in the previewer fine |
| 10:49.19 | G0A | Stewox you need to know physics to analyze photos about astronomy like that book does, for example you would go nuts if you would see the abnormality lagrangian points without knowing what is lagrangian points. |
| 10:49.26 | Zolden | so if i make a mod that attaches penises to all units, it will work with any melee map? |
| 10:49.34 | Stewox | g0a, the guy has a preconditioned bias as something "controversial" - these are the politically correct yappies |
| 10:50.07 | DeadZergling | if you gonna be stupid, at least call them the right derogatory term, it is yuppy |
| 10:50.25 | Stewox | i don't need to analyze pictures, I know what to look for |
| 10:50.32 | Zolden | DeadZergling they may look fine, but they don't have speculars |
| 10:50.39 | G0A | politics has nothing to do with logic and natural sciences. |
| 10:50.46 | DeadZergling | what good will those do? |
| 10:50.52 | Stewox | it takes years to build this experience G0A |
| 10:51.01 | G0A | though politics may want to interfere but it wont change facts |
| 10:51.07 | Zolden | it will make them have light reflections |
| 10:51.16 | Stewox | the guy is political about it |
| 10:51.23 | Stewox | why is this controversial to him ? |
| 10:51.26 | Zolden | light reflections help the eye to retrieve visual information |
| 10:51.31 | Stewox | because his mind is closed |
| 10:51.56 | Zolden | otherewise model look dull |
| 10:52.13 | G0A | Stewox the book you linked as doing only visible light picture analyzing.... |
| 10:52.21 | Stewox | controversial is a subjective term, has nothing to do with information, I never use this or discuss this term |
| 10:52.22 | G0A | as=are* |
| 10:52.36 | Zolden | i've been using them wiuthout speculars, bu once i found out how awesome they look with, i don't use them without and ask anyone else to add them |
| 10:52.45 | Stewox | anyone that uses this term is not a credible conspiracy researcher |
| 10:52.56 | DeadZergling | well, not like I know how to do that |
| 10:52.58 | Stewox | he might be good, but he's a beginner |
| 10:53.09 | DeadZergling | best I can do is attach an omni light to each one :) |
| 10:53.11 | Zolden | it should be done in art tools for example |
| 10:53.13 | Stewox | beginners are sometimes the worst to deal with |
| 10:53.19 | Stewox | in communication |
| 10:53.20 | Zolden | do you have art tools? |
| 10:53.27 | G0A | "conspiracy researcher" |
| 10:54.00 | DeadZergling | not according to my buttons at the top of SC2 Editor |
| 10:54.12 | DeadZergling | and I refuse to torrent 3ds max, is dishonest |
| 10:54.57 | G0A | Stewox while I tried to stick to that book and moon you are speaking about personalities and other stuff all the time... |
| 10:55.01 | Zolden | americans are so brainwashed... "obey the law!" |
| 10:55.37 | DeadZergling | law has little to do with this one Z |
| 10:55.52 | Zolden | ok, lemme show you |
| 10:55.53 | DeadZergling | if it isn't okay with you for me to use one of your models for example |
| 10:55.58 | Zolden | name the weapon ou want |
| 10:55.59 | DeadZergling | Shouldn't I respect that and not use it? |
| 10:56.00 | G0A | thousands years of religions proves that people can be brainwashed into believing to anything |
| 10:56.09 | G0A | even that everything is conspiracy |
| 10:56.33 | DeadZergling | oh I dunno, how about sword_2h_northrend_d_04.m3 |
| 10:56.56 | G0A | one fast rely on things which can experimented with and not by told by stupid youtube videos. |
| 10:57.06 | DeadZergling | want me to send, or you already have? |
| 10:57.06 | G0A | fast=must* |
| 10:58.00 | Zolden | oh, nice, it will benefit so much from specs |
| 10:58.04 | Zolden | i have |
| 10:58.28 | Zolden | G0A sounds like a phonetical misspelling |
| 10:58.40 | DeadZergling | back in 10 anywho |
| 10:59.26 | Zolden | DeadZergling which modification are you interested in? |
| 11:00.22 | Zolden | ok, let it be the one with stripes |
| 11:00.30 | Stewox | the experience lies in the knowledge of what's real and not g0a |
| 11:00.42 | Stewox | i have +5 years, how much do you have ? |
| 11:01.47 | Stewox | the book is here http://www.google.si/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divshare.com%2Fdirect%2F16769602-eda.pdf&ei=BwOfUpfQN8zg7QbUoIGIDA&usg=AFQjCNGSsRMTMA4B7B6JkgOPz35ivLYUhw&sig2=00boRS6jU8iUgtiRCag7AQ&bvm=bv.57155469,d.bGE&cad=rja |
| 11:02.34 | G0A | Stewox my dad is used to say that the only thing you can trust is true, you may have researched +5 years of conspiracies which has nothing to do with you directly, you dont even live in USA, while I learned things about the basic nature of the universe which I did tested most of the times with my own hands... |
| 11:03.03 | Stewox | what did you found ? |
| 11:03.25 | Stewox | see you don't understand what logic means |
| 11:03.37 | Stewox | i don't have to be in usa, and I don't have to research stuff that doesn't matter |
| 11:04.20 | Stewox | you did stuff what your education pushed you |
| 11:04.46 | Stewox | did it helped humanity, did it helped get rid of capitalism, did it helped to unlock truth, no |
| 11:05.27 | Stewox | did it help to solve criminal cases, did it help to expose political pedophile rings, did it help to spread message of freedom, no |
| 11:05.48 | Stewox | did it help to expose the establishments in any way, nope |
| 11:06.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee_ (Renee@116.226.209.165) |
| 11:06.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee_ (Renee@116.226.209.165) |
| 11:06.57 | Stewox | so what are you doing is just mainstream nonsense, calculating some stuff that is irrelevant to conspiracy research |
| 11:07.03 | G0A | Stewox your research have agenda of "helped humanity, did it helped get rid of capitalism, did it helped to unlock truth", my education only agenda was to understand physics... |
| 11:07.07 | DeadZergling | what Zolden? |
| 11:07.19 | DeadZergling | what do you mean, what modification am I interested in |
| 11:07.27 | Stewox | it's not nonsense in terms of it self, but if you try to use it as a counter, that is nonsense |
| 11:07.29 | kingTD | When minimized then it kicked me out... |
| 11:07.39 | G0A | what does logic means anyway? |
| 11:08.18 | DeadZergling | Hello Renee, how goes it? |
| 11:08.21 | G0A | Stewox btw you mean that all the acadmic study are wrong? |
| 11:08.23 | Renee_ | It seems you still needs to buy the game to use the test map feature. |
| 11:08.51 | G0A | this 900,000 scientific paper is wrong too? http://arxiv.org/ |
| 11:08.53 | Stewox | logic is understanding the evidence, scientific analysis, gathering information, I am using logic with some knowledge of other fields if required |
| 11:09.30 | DeadZergling | well they couldn't give us everything now could they R |
| 11:09.56 | Renee_ | hmmm~~ |
| 11:10.07 | Zolden | DeadZergling yea, there are different skins |
| 11:10.09 | G0A | Stewox see thats a problem, for me logic means else, it could never have such board meaning for me... |
| 11:10.26 | Renee_ | But I still need the 4 hero models they displayed on Blizzcon |
| 11:10.27 | Stewox | I don't neet to know the structure of the sun and it's chemical components, the physics of sunrays and radiation, how they travel the space to hit earth and all that, to understand that if I stay on the sun for too long i'll get burned |
| 11:10.35 | Zolden | Renee_ what new stuff have you found in ptr thing? |
| 11:11.04 | Renee_ | Aside from the ext mod? |
| 11:11.14 | Stewox | what I do is a profession, it's self-taught G0A |
| 11:11.22 | Zolden | maybe something in editor? |
| 11:11.35 | Zolden | like improved terrain modifiers or PiP |
| 11:11.35 | G0A | Stewox THATS THE PROBLEM you dont get burned if you stay on the sun |
| 11:11.55 | Renee_ | 10,000 words of new dataeditor tips. Mainly for actors |
| 11:12.11 | G0A | It has nothing to do with the chemical reaction called burning. |
| 11:12.13 | Zolden | not bad |
| 11:12.36 | Renee_ | I'm translating them myself, because I can't trust the official translation~~ |
| 11:12.47 | Stewox | look man, i really don't have much nerves to try to awake you, you're clearly trying your best to make up excuses |
| 11:12.48 | Zolden | haven't they added ctrl+ for actor events window? |
| 11:12.57 | G0A | though you will argue against such facts without knowing anything about the underlying information |
| 11:13.19 | G0A | Stewox no excuses |
| 11:13.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster JademusSreg (~jademus.s@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 11:13.28 | G0A | yay |
| 11:13.42 | G0A | Jade we have nice conversation going on again |
| 11:13.43 | Renee_ | And I find that the editor finnally works under ati ccc 13.9 |
| 11:14.32 | Stewox | you think that a giant spherical object spewing exhaust into the saturn ring system and through time actually making the rings, is a natural process ? |
| 11:14.46 | Stewox | cylindrical, not spherical* |
| 11:15.13 | G0A | lol I am just watching that picture |
| 11:15.19 | Renee_ | Zolden, what's the Ctrl+ feature you talked about? I didn't know that. |
| 11:15.27 | G0A | how the fuck you know thats exhaust? |
| 11:15.42 | G0A | surely it cant be anything else, it must be exhaust |
| 11:15.42 | Stewox | why are you asking me ? |
| 11:16.10 | Stewox | do you even know who Norman is, the author of the book ? |
| 11:16.16 | G0A | you said its an exhaust |
| 11:16.51 | Stewox | I said it because the book said it, but, you know, I know what to look for, and this book is from a Nasa whistleblower |
| 11:17.01 | G0A | I dont care who is he, I care about what is he saying, if he says the truth then his personality doesnt matters |
| 11:17.40 | Stewox | there are thousands of conspiracy books, many of them have half-truths and are written by gatekeepers, the trick is finding the correct books, that what experience is required for |
| 11:18.01 | Stewox | being a nasa employee is a personality type ? |
| 11:18.04 | G0A | lol already found a picture where he says an exhaust to camera lens reflection |
| 11:19.03 | Stewox | that's a great example why I keep saying your full of shit, how can "being at nasa" is a personality type ? |
| 11:19.08 | G0A | Stewox I mean by "personality" everything that has to do with the person |
| 11:19.38 | Stewox | no it doesn't mean that, that's your weird description of the term personality |
| 11:19.52 | G0A | should have use only person... |
| 11:20.11 | Renee_ | Oh right, Zolden, you can obfuscate the script for the locked maps you upload. |
| 11:20.35 | Renee_ | It only works for GUI triggers tough |
| 11:20.37 | G0A | so I dont care who wrote the book, I care about the book... |
| 11:20.51 | Renee_ | It won't affect your custom script |
| 11:21.25 | Stewox | some of the pictures were released by nasa, some of them he provided because he had access to them, why do you think it doens't matter who he is, he had direct access to above top secret projects that even president didn't know about, many of the stuff he didn't even disclose yet |
| 11:22.05 | G0A | voyager wasnt secret project |
| 11:22.29 | G0A | actually the whole idea originated from a young uni student |
| 11:23.02 | Stewox | a nasa space expert wrote the book, if you're going to use that "he's not a physics expert" ... no, he's some farmer who chops meat |
| 11:23.05 | G0A | There are 10000 more pictures about saturns rings since then |
| 11:23.12 | G0A | I guess all thos are censored too... |
| 11:23.22 | Stewox | yeah what about those 10000 |
| 11:23.27 | G0A | even the by the European, chinese and Indian agancies |
| 11:23.35 | Stewox | all handpicked to be put out |
| 11:24.12 | G0A | that 1000 people who handy picked them are all conspirators tooo |
| 11:24.56 | G0A | and from all those handy picked ones nothing slipped though |
| 11:25.06 | Zolden | wow, cool |
| 11:25.08 | Stewox | oh let me find that smoking gun ... |
| 11:25.26 | G0A | I guess when they are using the public domain to classify galaxies they are filtering that millions of images too.... |
| 11:25.55 | Zolden | Renee_ we can ctrl+ (add) new editor entries, but this key combination doesn't work in actor event window, we have to righclick -> add |
| 11:26.41 | G0A | and they watched through all the mars and moon surface pictures (we have full map like them like google earth) |
| 11:27.32 | Renee_ | Well, Zolden. It seems this shortcut still doesn't work in actor event |
| 11:27.41 | Stewox | i found it ... moment |
| 11:27.42 | G0A | but anyway they not just need to hand pick that 10000 images about Saturn they need to modify it too because anything like that book states would be shown on those pictures |
| 11:28.05 | Renee_ | And, not orc heroes for now http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10787408756 |
| 11:28.08 | Stewox | again you're assuming saying some crap you haven't read the whole book |
| 11:28.12 | Renee_ | * no |
| 11:28.16 | Stewox | the object is BUILDING the ring |
| 11:28.27 | Stewox | it probably had to repair thet part |
| 11:28.34 | Stewox | i don't know why it was missing |
| 11:28.37 | Stewox | you're asking me |
| 11:30.16 | G0A | Stewox there are full sized pictures of saturns ring (you see all the ring) |
| 11:30.45 | Zolden | Renee_ aren't there new functions to attach a unit to player camera? |
| 11:31.36 | Stewox | i have no idea what your point is |
| 11:31.42 | Stewox | found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePr0FBZ7wNg |
| 11:32.11 | Renee_ | Hmmm if there is one such feature, I haven't found them yet |
| 11:34.58 | G0A | Stewox so? it has nothing to do with Saturn. And you know UFO can mean an unidentified asteroid too... |
| 11:35.05 | Stewox | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa2ixIEd49k |
| 11:35.28 | Stewox | correct link i found months ago ^^ |
| 11:37.07 | G0A | I guess all astronomical phenomena must be caused by an alien civilization |
| 11:38.38 | Stewox | here's the moon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RnRCOrssTQ |
| 11:43.59 | G0A | http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast24may_1/ |
| 11:44.20 | G0A | Mars face was the most popular of such images |
| 11:44.59 | G0A | but yeah those pictures Stewox really convincing, there must be a whole civilization living on the moon, its very practical... |
| 11:45.33 | G0A | I mean mars |
| 11:46.03 | Stewox | might be the most popular |
| 11:46.25 | Stewox | but it really did expose anything larger than what kind of understanding people have about space |
| 11:46.33 | G0A | I guess the India sending their probe to them with gifts |
| 11:46.55 | Stewox | they can show some of the stuff as long as it doesn't change the perception much |
| 11:47.59 | G0A | another similar very important discovery: http://www.kens5.com/news/Beeville-man-finds-Jesus-in-breakfast-taco-165198506.html |
| 11:48.28 | Stewox | a pic that has been re-edited, if you go to the link the guy provided the image is not the same anymore, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJkbLVOlBFE |
| 11:48.41 | G0A | you know I just needed to google guy find jesus toaster because I knew people find jesus everywhere... |
| 11:49.33 | G0A | lol that video |
| 11:49.36 | G0A | ufo factory |
| 11:50.04 | G0A | LOL That |
| 11:50.17 | G0A | that guys sees everything into image rendering |
| 11:51.04 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+b *!~chatzilla@cpe-86-58-34-166.static.triera.net] by Torhal |
| 11:51.05 | *** kick/#sc2mapster [Stewox!Torhal@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:9160] by Torhal (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) |
| 11:51.11 | G0A | but yeah it must be ufo factory since it doesnt makes any sense to him. |
| 11:53.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster Renee_ (Renee@116.231.103.207) |
| 11:56.46 | Zolden | DeadZergling http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/45/513/dz_sword.rar |
| 11:57.16 | DeadZergling | you would use a rar, now I gotta find a rar opener |
| 11:59.05 | Zolden | if it's hard, i can upload badre files |
| 11:59.21 | DeadZergling | where should I put the texture? |
| 11:59.55 | Zolden | Assets/Textures |
| 12:00.01 | DeadZergling | UFO factory, seriously? |
| 12:00.21 | DeadZergling | it looks like someone lazily pasted an image onto a satellite view of a city or some shit |
| 12:01.52 | Zolden | if it's violet, save, close editor, open editor |
| 12:03.40 | Zolden | show me ufo factory |
| 12:03.49 | DeadZergling | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJkbLVOlBFE |
| 12:04.00 | DeadZergling | the bonehead poster is sure he has found a UFO factory |
| 12:04.22 | DeadZergling | sword is definitely much shinier now |
| 12:04.51 | DeadZergling | has a completely different texture too, for some reason |
| 12:07.18 | DeadZergling | anyways Z, it is now definitely shinier, with a lot more going on |
| 12:07.30 | DeadZergling | but unless you can do that kind of thing in blender, isn't something I'll be able to do |
| 12:07.54 | G0A | DeadZergling basically: mars faintly radiated that area, it was so faint that when the image was rendered the software did tons of straight lines.... |
| 12:09.30 | G0A | but I find it quite amusing that it must be an alien ship factory of epic portions |
| 12:09.40 | DeadZergling | interesting, wonder if conspiracy theorists even realize the rendering done for those colorful galaxy pictures, lol |
| 12:09.43 | Zolden | DeadZergling you can do something close in blender, just use one of the material's channels as specular map |
| 12:10.03 | Torhal | G0A: Apologies for banning your source of amusement. |
| 12:10.16 | DeadZergling | oh no, don't apologize Torhal |
| 12:10.21 | Torhal | :D |
| 12:10.23 | DeadZergling | he was getting on the entire channel's nerves |
| 12:10.40 | Torhal | He was doing so well for about a month after his week-long ban. I told him next time was permanent. |
| 12:10.45 | Torhal | shrugs. |
| 12:11.13 | DeadZergling | his memory doesn't seem so good |
| 12:11.20 | DeadZergling | maybe he forgot what happened :P |
| 12:11.21 | Torhal | Heh, nor his meds. |
| 12:12.05 | DeadZergling | nice to know there will be relative peace when I log back in tommorrow, thank you for that Torhal |
| 12:12.11 | Torhal | np! |
| 12:12.17 | DeadZergling | for now, I'm tired as hell, need some sleep |
| 12:12.21 | DeadZergling | been staring at assets all day |
| 12:12.35 | G0A | Torhal lol I didnt even noticed he was banned |
| 12:12.36 | DeadZergling | I'll try to figure blender out another day Z, thanks for showing the diff |
| 12:13.25 | G0A | dont know why did you ban the poor guy though since i started the discussion, this must be a victory for him. |
| 12:13.59 | G0A | Torhal you are forcing me to work more on my map... |
| 12:14.32 | DeadZergling | just don't work on pictionary |
| 12:14.41 | DeadZergling | will be a victory for he who must not be named |
| 12:14.47 | DeadZergling | anyways, later :) |
| 12:14.56 | G0A | how will now argue with me? I dont want this calm feeling |
| 12:35.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (~scraft@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:47.44 | G0A | anybody knows a wol mover that goes high Z first? |
| 12:52.30 | duckies | I know hybrid dna absorb missile ..sometimes goes high Z |
| 12:52.44 | duckies | if Z stands for Zolden that is :D |
| 12:52.57 | G0A | hehe |
| 12:53.01 | G0A | Z stands for height |
| 12:53.38 | Zolden | Z stands ofr Zorro |
| 12:57.43 | Zolden | fucking dragon consumed 600kb |
| 12:57.48 | Zolden | but now i have a final boss |
| 12:57.57 | Zolden | hope dragon isn't too banal as a final boss |
| 12:58.32 | Zolden | will just make a BADASS fire attack an it will be fine |
| 12:59.16 | Zolden | why uploading sometimes fail> |
| 12:59.26 | Zolden | i mean bnet uploading |
| 13:00.30 | duckies | g0a, you talked too much to stew if you had a thought that a mapper wouldn't know what Z stands for -.- |
| 13:00.51 | duckies | everyone knows it stands for Zed, the greathest RTS ever made! |
| 13:01.22 | Zolden | omg, you think Stew planted his insanity into goa? |
| 13:01.25 | G0A | :D |
| 13:01.48 | G0A | it stands for Zlad the greatest musician of all time |
| 13:02.04 | G0A | I am infected by stupidness |
| 13:02.30 | Zolden | so now you will put ufo warnings in random td? |
| 13:05.29 | G0A | I hate making weapons |
| 13:06.00 | G0A | I will put UFO-s which will have x chance to appear and destroy everything |
| 13:06.05 | G0A | so it will be more realistic |
| 13:06.29 | G0A | though it should be done in my final frontier map |
| 13:06.39 | G0A | along with hidden space factories |
| 13:07.17 | Zolden | a question: why have I just uploaded a mod 3 times in a row without changing anything in it? |
| 13:09.06 | Zolden | it's not rhetorical, there is a reason, and I'm curious if anyone can make divine what is it |
| 13:10.54 | A1win | mmh do I need to bank anything else than number of rounds played and number of players defeated? |
| 13:11.13 | A1win | (like if you win a 6 player game, you get +5 players defeated) |
| 13:11.19 | Zolden | A1win elo! |
| 13:11.24 | A1win | elo? |
| 13:12.25 | Zolden | http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo-luku |
| 13:13.29 | duckies | he wants you to make a thing for your players to measure their e-peni... I mean ratings, to measure each others ratings |
| 13:13.47 | A1win | does that even apply to FFA? |
| 13:14.16 | Zolden | A1win yes, you can use tournament variation |
| 13:15.05 | Zolden | or simpy consider player's opponent elo as arithmetical mean of other players |
| 13:17.26 | Zolden | and if win elo change will be like +a, and lose -b, you will add a for first place, and add less for lower places, like if the difference between a and b projected on the result table |
| 13:17.55 | A1win | hmmh |
| 13:18.00 | Zolden | i think players like ratings, and elo is just mathematically correct one |
| 13:18.12 | A1win | yeah could be nice |
| 13:19.25 | Zolden | if you want, I can give you a function I made to calc elo for my maps |
| 13:20.18 | A1win | sure |
| 13:20.25 | duckies | I'd rather have rankings, where elo is hidden and players are instead awarder ranks ranging from "TDking" to "how do I make coffe with this thing". More human for my preference |
| 13:20.39 | A1win | what values do I need to store? just one per player? |
| 13:20.53 | A1win | hehe |
| 13:21.15 | A1win | duckies, but it's a relative rating :P |
| 13:24.34 | Zolden | A1win http://pastebin.com/pxQLRqDe |
| 13:24.59 | A1win | what should the ratings start at? |
| 13:25.33 | Zolden | start with 1600 |
| 13:25.48 | Zolden | it's a standard starting point for elo systems |
| 13:25.57 | Zolden | for example, it's used on chess server |
| 13:26.41 | Zolden | storing elo and number of games should be enough to let others know about player's strength and experience |
| 13:26.42 | A1win | so this calculates the change for one player? |
| 13:26.48 | Zolden | yea |
| 13:27.01 | A1win | so I should first calculate it for everyone and after that replace the old values? |
| 13:27.04 | G0A | Zolden that 1600 is bad idea |
| 13:27.10 | Zolden | why? |
| 13:27.21 | G0A | you shouldnt be able to get worse than the one you have at start |
| 13:29.51 | Zolden | A1win if player has no elo, you assign 1600. When everyone got loaded from bank or assigned elo, you calculate win and lose for each player using arithmetical mean of other players elo as "opponen elo". Example three players have 1600, 1700, 1800. For the 1600 player his "opponent elo" will be 1750 |
| 13:30.17 | A1win | mm |
| 13:30.38 | Zolden | when someone wins, you add something between elo_win and elo_lose, depending on player's place |
| 13:30.42 | Zolden | but |
| 13:31.01 | Zolden | if you want players to not leave, add elo_lose and save to bak at start |
| 13:31.05 | A1win | should I use fixed point values? |
| 13:31.12 | Zolden | no, int is ok |
| 13:31.28 | Zolden | elo change will be 10-20 point per match |
| 13:31.32 | Zolden | so int is ok |
| 13:32.02 | duckies | G0A, you're right, falling down the ladder as soon as you start playing is a sucky feeling. |
| 13:32.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster turtles1 (~dave3@d27-99-12-143.bla802.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 13:32.31 | turtles1 | hi all |
| 13:32.41 | Zolden | G0A well, for any rating starting amount is only a supposition |
| 13:32.42 | duckies | hail turtles! |
| 13:32.53 | Zolden | hi ninja turtles |
| 13:33.04 | turtles1 | :) |
| 13:38.07 | kingTD | ninja turkies! |
| 13:40.00 | Dustin | hi |
| 13:40.05 | turtles1 | Heroes in a half shell! |
| 13:40.19 | Dustin | My new phone looks like a ninja turtle |
| 13:41.47 | G0A | Zolden players dont know that, you should too just put players back to 1600 elo if they go under 1600 and show elo-1600 |
| 13:41.54 | turtles1 | lol. which one? you should name it donatello. He was the one who was the technophile |
| 13:42.59 | G0A | or maybe just start with 0 instead 1600... |
| 13:43.17 | G0A | I mean start by 400 and show elo-400 |
| 13:43.30 | G0A | that way noobs will gain elo at start fast |
| 13:48.43 | G0A | If I set Yaw Start at turrets to x then turret will turn from x to x+ Yaw Arc? Or how does that work, I want 2 weapons on a unit 1 fires only at left the other only at right. |
| 13:48.43 | G0A | Basic: Yaw Arc270 |
| 13:48.43 | G0A | Basic: Yaw Start90 |
| 13:48.56 | G0A | ups copied my reference too:D |
| 13:50.42 | G0A | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/59922-ptr-2-1-0-editor-new-stuffs/#p1 |
| 13:51.09 | A1win | now let's see if this works... |
| 13:51.35 | A1win | nope D: |
| 13:54.20 | A1win | oh, it wasn't supposed to |
| 13:54.25 | A1win | I outsmarted myself |
| 13:54.44 | A1win | cheated round end when no one had yet spawned so it didn't give score to anyone |
| 13:55.15 | Renee_ | Is there any chance that blizzard would release other missed SC1 models? |
| 13:57.08 | A1win | whee now it works |
| 13:57.27 | Zolden | G0A can two weapons use twod different turrets? |
| 13:57.43 | A1win | Zolden, does this look about right? 6 players with 1600 rating, winners rating becomes 1613 and losers' 1598 |
| 13:58.22 | Zolden | A1win winners and losers ratings should be symmetric |
| 13:58.32 | A1win | D: |
| 13:58.35 | Zolden | if win change 13, lose change should be -13 |
| 13:59.04 | A1win | but there are 5 losers |
| 13:59.06 | A1win | and 1 winner |
| 13:59.17 | G0A | Zolden should be |
| 13:59.24 | turtles1 | Idea is that total ELO should remain the same |
| 13:59.47 | A1win | well that's a rounding error then |
| 13:59.56 | Zolden | G0A I made it work without using turrets, just 1 search effects to check targets at left and at right side |
| 13:59.58 | turtles1 | so winner gained 13 elo points and losers each lost 13/5 |
| 14:00.03 | A1win | losers lose bit over 2, winner gains bit over 2 per loser |
| 14:00.44 | G0A | Zolden I better not to use search effects (its pain to modify their range in Entropy TD) |
| 14:01.30 | A1win | so how do I fix this rounding error <.< |
| 14:01.57 | Zolden | A1win is it possible in your map so players share a plce? like if one got score 500, and two got score 100, and it's one first and two second places? |
| 14:02.29 | A1win | oh, now it's just all losers get 2nd place |
| 14:02.31 | Bommes | man, at some point in the last couple of years they somehow managed to make skype the most obnoxious and shitty program that there is |
| 14:02.38 | Zolden | A1win yea |
| 14:03.25 | A1win | should I do something about it D: |
| 14:03.55 | Zolden | just make it scale correctly for any possibe situation |
| 14:04.30 | G0A | Bommes well come to the programs bought by Microsoft |
| 14:04.32 | A1win | so I should weight the loser's elo based on their relative score? |
| 14:05.06 | A1win | but how do I ensure that the total elo stays the same? |
| 14:05.40 | turtles1 | A1win - you could use reals instead of ints |
| 14:06.03 | turtles1 | but report players ELO scores in ints if you think it confusing |
| 14:06.06 | A1win | that would make it more accurate but not perfect :P |
| 14:06.09 | turtles1 | the maths is exactly the same |
| 14:06.30 | A1win | but I guess it'd be accurate enough |
| 14:06.33 | turtles1 | perfect shmerfict. It will never be perfect :) |
| 14:06.35 | Bommes | is there a way to publish maps into the arcade for the ptr? |
| 14:06.49 | turtles1 | there will always be ELO inflation |
| 14:06.55 | Zolden | for the simple case: win change is e_win, and lose change is e_lose (negative). So you scale like this: de = (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * p/(n - p) and player gains e_lose + de, where p is player's place, and n is number of players |
| 14:06.58 | A1win | well one way would be to first calculate total elo change and then split it into pieces based on relative change :P |
| 14:07.11 | turtles1 | which can be a pain in the ass if you want to have to deal with that too |
| 14:08.17 | A1win | Zolden, I can't think in math right now D: |
| 14:08.34 | Zolden | A1win well, it's simple, you can make your own scale function |
| 14:09.07 | Zolden | jsut the rule is winner gets pure elo_win gain, loser gets pure elo_lose gain (negative), adn other places - between |
| 14:09.40 | A1win | by loser you mean the lowest place player? |
| 14:09.45 | Zolden | yea |
| 14:10.22 | A1win | so if there are 3 players, winner gets more elo, 3rd place loses elo, and 2nd place remains unchanged? |
| 14:10.26 | Zolden | and calculate everything as real |
| 14:10.38 | Zolden | only assign final results as int |
| 14:10.54 | Zolden | so it doesn't round in between |
| 14:13.48 | A1win | meh still can't understand how it's even supposed to go like :P |
| 14:13.57 | A1win | or where the scaling happens etc. |
| 14:14.13 | duckies | that's because you're supposed to think of a name first, silly :p |
| 14:14.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@u-251-c002.eap.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 14:16.29 | A1win | also "place" is very relative, what if winner gets 10 kills, 4 other players get 9 kills, and the sixth player has -5 kills |
| 14:17.22 | A1win | or winner gets 10, other players -4, -5, -6, -8, -11 |
| 14:17.36 | kingTD | Zolden when update? |
| 14:18.37 | Zolden | A1win to deside what player get what place, I'd use amount of kills and amount of deaths |
| 14:19.56 | Zolden | you can make your calculations simplier if you exclude the situation where players share one place by considering kills and scores and other numbers, so "all are equal" situation won't be poissible |
| 14:20.37 | Zolden | then use places as equal positions, no matter how big difference in score bwetween the players |
| 14:21.32 | A1win | mm alright |
| 14:21.45 | A1win | still no idea how to actually implement this function to work with that, though ;p |
| 14:21.59 | A1win | if I just use opponent's elo as arithmetic mean of other's, I get the situation I showed earlier |
| 14:22.15 | A1win | where the lost points are divided among all losers |
| 14:22.31 | Zolden | points won't divide |
| 14:23.43 | A1win | they do with this function, apparently D: |
| 14:24.58 | Zolden | jsut give them all random amounts of kills to see what happen if they all spread between different lpaces |
| 14:25.13 | A1win | oh wait, just found an error in my function ;p |
| 14:25.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@dslb-188-101-188-069.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:25.54 | Zolden | because when all players have 1600, it should be 1600 vs 1600 for everyone, and it will give about +17 and -17 for win and lose. Then you scale for everyone separately. First place should recieve 17, second about 10, third about 3, 4th about -3, 5th about -10, adn 6th about -17. |
| 14:26.04 | Ahli | Greetings, Ahli, Bachelor of Science in Information Systems. I did it :D |
| 14:26.16 | Zolden | Ahli gj |
| 14:26.20 | Zolden | and gz |
| 14:26.40 | Zolden | have they took into account your diablo map? |
| 14:26.41 | A1win | Zolden, should that last line in your function be Floor(k * (s - e)) ? or rather, is that what FixedToInt() does? |
| 14:26.55 | Dustin | Gratz Ahli! |
| 14:27.20 | A1win | mmh |
| 14:27.30 | A1win | now losers are losing 13 and winner gains 12 |
| 14:27.32 | Ahli | no, my personal projects are not that relevant to the content of the courses. :D |
| 14:27.54 | Zolden | A1win FixedToInt returns integer part, simply rounds |
| 14:28.03 | A1win | that's not simply rounding ;p |
| 14:28.06 | A1win | that's flooring |
| 14:28.19 | A1win | but yeah |
| 14:28.27 | A1win | still gives wrong results D: |
| 14:28.34 | A1win | +12 for winner, -13 for loser |
| 14:28.39 | Zolden | well, i'm not sure will 16.3 and 16.7 return 16 and 16, or 16 and 17 |
| 14:28.58 | A1win | if I use Round() it gives +13 for winner and -12 for loser |
| 14:29.31 | A1win | hmm should probably round opponent's elo after taking the mean |
| 14:29.31 | Zolden | and Floor()? |
| 14:29.37 | A1win | floor is +12 -13 |
| 14:29.48 | Zolden | and FixedToInt()? |
| 14:30.11 | A1win | let's' see |
| 14:30.33 | A1win | also +12 -13 |
| 14:30.38 | A1win | so yeah that's floor function |
| 14:31.03 | A1win | oh nvm it obviously rounds the opponent's elo anyway since it's using int, mmh |
| 14:31.19 | Dustin | Ya if you convert a real to int it'll round |
| 14:31.29 | A1win | no :P |
| 14:31.31 | A1win | it will floor |
| 14:31.39 | Dustin | That's technically rounding :P |
| 14:31.42 | Dustin | Rounding DOWN! |
| 14:31.44 | A1win | <.< |
| 14:32.36 | Zolden | kingTD SOON |
| 14:32.46 | Zolden | in blizz meaning of soon |
| 14:32.49 | A1win | Zolden, I'm guessing it does this if the elo_win is like 12.5 and elo_lose is -12.5 |
| 14:32.55 | A1win | it rounds 12.5 up to 13 and -12.5 up to 12 |
| 14:32.58 | A1win | *-12 |
| 14:33.22 | Dustin | That makes sense |
| 14:33.24 | Zolden | i think the difference isn't that much to do something about |
| 14:33.25 | A1win | so I guess I should round it as abs and then apply the sign |
| 14:33.46 | Zolden | yea, if you're not so lazy |
| 14:33.57 | A1win | or actually |
| 14:34.05 | A1win | just if win then ceil, if lose then floor :P |
| 14:34.12 | Dustin | That works :P |
| 14:35.13 | A1win | yeah now it's +13 -13 |
| 14:35.25 | A1win | just need to scale the places then... |
| 14:38.51 | A1win | mmh |
| 14:39.20 | A1win | *head explodes* |
| 14:40.27 | A1win | Zolden, should I calculate e_win and e_lose separately and after that count the elo for the in-between places? |
| 14:40.40 | Zolden | yea |
| 14:40.51 | A1win | alright, starting to make a bit of sense now ;p |
| 14:47.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin|Work (~Dustin@ip68-102-170-78.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 14:51.17 | Ahli | wow, they fixed the FPS drops that moving the mouse caused |
| 14:52.02 | G0A | whhaaaat? |
| 14:52.10 | Ahli | kingTD leading the group :D |
| 14:52.14 | G0A | how, where? |
| 14:52.29 | G0A | how did you guys notice it? |
| 14:52.40 | Ahli | in bnet menus: Ahli moves mouse => frames drop/screen freezes |
| 14:52.57 | Ahli | now: Ahli moves mouse... frames don't drop at all |
| 14:53.06 | G0A | I didnt have that |
| 14:53.23 | G0A | though I have troubles switching menus |
| 14:53.57 | G0A | Ahli maybe its because you are on less populated bnet server?:) |
| 14:54.38 | Ahli | I'm not sure |
| 14:54.57 | Ahli | but I'm only dropping frames when it is loading stuff or shows animated stuff now |
| 14:55.35 | Ahli | need more people in groups (members) and more stuff in arcade... then I can test it properly |
| 14:55.48 | Ahli | but since I'm not going below 59 by moving the mouse, it seems fixed |
| 14:56.23 | Ahli | minimized group + minimized chat + arcade screen with buttons + moving mouse = 24 fps is the situation I had before |
| 14:57.02 | Ahli | http://i.imgur.com/wagwoqt.png someone exploited the decals already |
| 14:57.47 | Dustin | They waht now |
| 14:59.05 | Ahli | they used images of burrowed widow mines which could be misinterpreted by the enemy |
| 14:59.58 | Dustin | Oh I couldnt tell what you were talking about, that's stupid since when can we use custom decals |
| 15:00.56 | Ahli | that thing is the new clan thing... they didn't add a floating sign as seen onblizzcon. Now it's altering the decals instead. |
| 15:01.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin (~Dustin@ip68-102-170-78.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 15:01.08 | Dustin | also, why are they not in the same spot as normal decals |
| 15:03.15 | Dustin | I call fake on that picture |
| 15:04.48 | Ahli | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437322&view=all more pictures here |
| 15:06.41 | Zolden | A1win wanna correct scale formula? |
| 15:06.49 | A1win | think I got it |
| 15:06.54 | Zolden | ok |
| 15:07.04 | A1win | not sure how elegant it is though ;p |
| 15:07.17 | Zolden | what's yours? |
| 15:07.42 | A1win | (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * (1 - position / (players+1)) - abs(e_lose) |
| 15:07.56 | A1win | hmm didn't work :P |
| 15:08.39 | A1win | gave e_win to everyone except loser |
| 15:09.28 | A1win | might be an integer rounding error |
| 15:09.58 | Renee_ | Hmmm I could not open ahli's link |
| 15:10.41 | A1win | Zolden, +13 +6 +2 -2 -6 -13 |
| 15:10.43 | Ahli | hi, image or teamliquid? |
| 15:10.49 | A1win | looks like it worked then o: |
| 15:11.15 | Zolden | A1win shouldn't it be (players-1) instead of (players+1)? |
| 15:11.19 | A1win | no |
| 15:11.22 | Zolden | in your formula |
| 15:11.27 | A1win | imagine you have 3 players |
| 15:11.37 | A1win | 1 = e_win 3 = e_lose |
| 15:12.07 | A1win | 2nd place gets (e_win+abs(e_lose)) * (1 - 2/4) - abs(e_lose) |
| 15:12.12 | A1win | 1-2/4 = 0.5 |
| 15:12.32 | A1win | (e_win+abs(e_lose)) * 0.5 - abs(e_lose) = 0 |
| 15:13.03 | A1win | err |
| 15:13.13 | A1win | I'm assuming e_win is always abs(e_lose) |
| 15:13.19 | Ahli | :o obfuscation of the GUI -> galaxy translation |
| 15:13.21 | A1win | so that's not right I think |
| 15:14.19 | A1win | Zolden, my places range from 1 to number of players |
| 15:14.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-109-192-195-080.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 15:14.21 | Renee_ | Ahli, http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/ |
| 15:14.35 | A1win | so the +1 makes it so that the middle place / number of players = 0.5 |
| 15:14.50 | Renee_ | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/59922 |
| 15:14.50 | Zolden | A1win sec, i'll check |
| 15:15.29 | Ahli | documentation of stuff, yay |
| 15:15.39 | Ahli | how did you find that? |
| 15:16.05 | Renee_ | Preference->Battle.net |
| 15:16.06 | A1win | (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * (1 - pos / (players+1)) - (e_win + abs(e_lose)) / 2 |
| 15:16.27 | A1win | mmh can I simplify that |
| 15:16.57 | Ahli | Renee_: I mean the actor tooltips |
| 15:17.07 | A1win | (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * ((1 - pos / (players+1)) - 0.5) ? |
| 15:17.11 | Zolden | A1win do you consider first place as 0? |
| 15:17.22 | A1win | no, 1 to number of players |
| 15:19.16 | A1win | I think this is correct now |
| 15:19.21 | A1win | the last one I said |
| 15:19.45 | A1win | is middle position elo change supposed to be 0? |
| 15:19.56 | Renee_ | Ahli: The tooltips are mostly for the enumeration values of the actor entry fields. |
| 15:20.01 | Renee_ | For example |
| 15:20.21 | Ahli | the flags? |
| 15:20.45 | A1win | err that can be simplified further |
| 15:20.48 | Zolden | A1win yea, 3rd place between 5 players should be 0 since elo changes are symmetrical and places are not weighted |
| 15:21.01 | A1win | (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * (0.5 - pos / (players+1)) |
| 15:21.45 | A1win | 0.5 - 3 / (5+1) = 0 |
| 15:22.13 | Zolden | 0.5 - 1 / (5+1) != 1 |
| 15:22.19 | Zolden | incorrect |
| 15:22.30 | A1win | :x mmh |
| 15:22.31 | Renee_ | The flags or the enum values. For example, select a model actor, and db-click the Host-Scope field, Mouse over the dropdown list |
| 15:22.35 | Zolden | wanna the correct one? |
| 15:22.43 | A1win | k ;p |
| 15:22.50 | Renee_ | You will see a insane long tip |
| 15:23.11 | Ahli | oh ok |
| 15:23.44 | Ahli | tests his map... now a few things have pink textures :X |
| 15:24.32 | Zolden | (n - p)/(n - 1) first place: (6 - 1)/(6 - 1) = 1 last place: (6 - 6)/(6 - 1) = 0 middle place: (5 - 3)/(5 - 1) = 1/2 |
| 15:24.51 | Renee_ | In the editor, most Enum values are put in the dropdown lists |
| 15:25.04 | A1win | mm right |
| 15:25.49 | Zolden | so, de = e_lose + (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * (n - p)/(n - 1) |
| 15:26.20 | Zolden | for last place it's e_lose, for first place it's e_win |
| 15:27.20 | A1win | that's not right |
| 15:27.38 | A1win | oh nvm |
| 15:27.57 | A1win | is e_win always == abs(e_lose) ? |
| 15:28.31 | Zolden | yea |
| 15:28.48 | A1win | yeah seems fine then |
| 15:29.57 | A1win | atm it randomizes player order on score board at the start of a round |
| 15:30.13 | A1win | so equal score still have different positions |
| 15:30.36 | A1win | reading the pos straight from score board since I'm lazy ;p |
| 15:30.49 | Zolden | i think equal score is nearly impossible, so it's fine |
| 15:31.13 | A1win | well not really, it's just 1 score per kill |
| 15:31.44 | Zolden | no more other score sources? |
| 15:31.50 | A1win | nope |
| 15:32.03 | A1win | there never was, except when I was trying damage based scoring |
| 15:32.09 | A1win | then kill gave no score at all |
| 15:32.28 | A1win | +13 +8 +3 -3 -8 -13 |
| 15:32.49 | A1win | that's when everyone starts at 1600 |
| 15:33.13 | Zolden | looks fine |
| 15:33.32 | A1win | after two rounds (same positions) +25 +16 +6 -6 -16 -25 |
| 15:33.58 | A1win | (in total, not for that round) |
| 15:34.27 | A1win | yay, now just need to add them to bank |
| 15:34.57 | Zolden | do players have personal e_win and e_lose numbers? try to assign random elos at start |
| 15:35.19 | A1win | how do you mean personal |
| 15:35.20 | A1win | ? |
| 15:36.01 | Zolden | if one player has 1800 and others 1600, he will have e_win about 5 and e_lose about -20 |
| 15:36.12 | Zolden | oh, lol |
| 15:36.30 | Zolden | this makes e_win != abs(e_lose) |
| 15:36.34 | A1win | ;p |
| 15:37.20 | Zolden | but for my formula it should matter |
| 15:37.35 | kingTD | Zolden fix the units idling when others fighting |
| 15:37.50 | Zolden | kingTD ok |
| 15:39.14 | A1win | Zolden, can't I just do (win + abs(lose)) * (pos_fraction - 0.5) |
| 15:39.19 | Zolden | de = e_lose + (e_win + abs(e_lose)) * (n - p)/(n - 1) check: win of badass player -20 + (5 + 20) * 1 = 5 lose of badass player: -20 + (5 + 20) * 0 = -20 |
| 15:40.16 | Zolden | A1win it either add 1/n instead of 0 to loser or add (n-1)/n instead of 1 to winner |
| 15:40.24 | A1win | i.e. (win + abs(lose)) * ((n-p)/(n-1) - 0.5) |
| 15:41.04 | A1win | mmh |
| 15:41.15 | A1win | should it even be 0 at middle in case win != lose |
| 15:41.59 | Zolden | in middle it will be 0.5 coefficient, so it's fine |
| 15:42.24 | Zolden | you need to scale the range between lose and win, so: lose + range * k |
| 15:42.38 | Zolden | and k = [0, 1] |
| 15:42.50 | A1win | mmf? |
| 15:43.22 | A1win | range is win+abs(lose) ? |
| 15:43.27 | Zolden | yea |
| 15:43.41 | A1win | and k comes from position, so that middle pos k=0.5 |
| 15:43.43 | A1win | ? |
| 15:44.01 | Zolden | k = (n-p)/(n-1) |
| 15:44.11 | Zolden | so middle = 0.5, win = 1, lose = 0 |
| 15:44.19 | Zolden | linear scale |
| 15:44.19 | A1win | yeah, so like it already was then |
| 15:44.25 | Zolden | yea |
| 15:44.36 | Zolden | test it with randomized elos |
| 15:53.52 | A1win | https://pastee.org/sj8y8 |
| 15:54.47 | A1win | err something's wrong ;p |
| 15:55.01 | A1win | now it gave 0 to winner and to loser |
| 15:56.06 | A1win | oops |
| 15:56.13 | A1win | set loser before sorting the table |
| 15:57.19 | A1win | O.o now winner got 0 |
| 15:57.35 | A1win | https://pastee.org/h33np |
| 15:58.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (4d26cd7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.38.205.122) |
| 15:59.14 | A1win | I think my sorting is messed up :P |
| 15:59.21 | A1win | for this purpose |
| 16:10.49 | G0A | kingTD M&M?:) |
| 16:14.08 | *** part/#sc2mapster turtles1 (~dave3@d27-99-12-143.bla802.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 16:19.03 | A1win | Zolden, https://pastee.org/5rt83 |
| 16:20.20 | A1win | looks about right? |
| 16:20.43 | A1win | results of two rounds |
| 16:21.08 | G0A | pff In korea the 2 most popular map is the lottery defense and a map which is almost like lottery defense. |
| 16:21.21 | A1win | :x |
| 16:30.26 | A1win | yay banked rounds played/players defeated/elo rating now working |
| 16:30.36 | Dustin | yay :d |
| 16:30.38 | Dustin | :D |
| 16:33.07 | Zolden | A1win it look rather correct than incorrect |
| 16:33.45 | Zolden | maybe make one player have 1800, others 1600, and check his last, first and middle places |
| 16:33.56 | Zolden | then all 1800, and one 1600, and also 3 places |
| 16:34.01 | Zolden | just to be sure |
| 16:34.19 | A1win | what do you mean by "his last"? |
| 16:34.39 | A1win | if he is last/first/middle? |
| 16:34.41 | Zolden | place 1800 player to last, middle and first place |
| 16:34.47 | A1win | mm yeah |
| 16:35.32 | Zolden | actually thos results seem correct |
| 16:36.09 | Zolden | i remembered that if player is above 1700, his elo change range is smaller |
| 16:36.11 | A1win | argh need to modify my sorting so that it puts winner always at top even if 2 players both get winning score at the same time |
| 16:36.25 | A1win | winner is chosen at random but sorting doesn't take it into account ;p |
| 16:43.31 | kingTD | leaving |
| 16:43.32 | G0A | leave? |
| 16:43.33 | kingTD | G0A |
| 16:44.17 | G0A | I guess it was only matter of time that people start doing that |
| 16:44.24 | kingTD | what? |
| 16:44.28 | kingTD | i didnt really saw |
| 16:44.32 | kingTD | what happened |
| 16:44.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@HSI-KBW-149-172-117-81.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:44.50 | A1win | whee fixed |
| 16:44.53 | G0A | play in unfair teams |
| 16:45.01 | kingTD | just last glimpse to starting lobby and it seemed like empty team 1 |
| 16:45.03 | A1win | damn this score screen is nice, can sort by elo and stuff |
| 16:45.37 | G0A | it was 2 guy with same clan tag and they put us into team 2 so they started the map in 2v4 |
| 16:46.01 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2018-45-15-20.jpg |
| 16:46.06 | G0A | Zolden you shouldnt give out elos if the 2 team dont start with same amount of players |
| 16:46.23 | Zolden | A1win cool |
| 16:46.53 | Zolden | G0A with the current sends it doesn't matter |
| 16:46.53 | A1win | I hope it works with less than 6 players :P |
| 16:47.12 | Zolden | A1win maybe go test? |
| 16:47.21 | A1win | can test locally |
| 16:47.36 | Zolden | G0A actually it does mater, but good players still have rape weaker ones |
| 16:47.41 | Zolden | ok |
| 16:47.47 | A1win | seems to work |
| 16:48.16 | G0A | Zolden not in public, when its for sure you will have at least 1 noob from 4 players |
| 16:48.45 | kingTD | Zolden make elo calculations not at the start of the game. after first wave btter |
| 16:48.54 | kingTD | for easier rq |
| 16:49.18 | A1win | Zolden, are those < 1700 and > 2400 values arbitrary? |
| 16:49.32 | A1win | and why are there only those two steps? |
| 16:50.00 | G0A | kingTD it should be after race select, otherwise people quit cause bad resource layout |
| 16:50.36 | kingTD | yeah |
| 16:50.39 | kingTD | u are right |
| 16:51.12 | A1win | Because of the significant difference in timing of when inflation and deflation occur, and in order to combat deflation, most implementations of Elo ratings have a mechanism for injecting points into the system in order to maintain relative ratings over time. FIDE has two inflationary mechanisms. First, performances below a "ratings floor" are not tracked, so a player with true skill below the floor can only be unrated or overrated, never correctly ... |
| 16:51.18 | A1win | ... rated. Second, established and higher-rated players have a lower K-factor. New players have a K=30, which drops to K=15 after 30 played games, and to K=10 when the player reaches 2400. |
| 16:52.35 | A1win | I should probably also set higher K for new players |
| 16:53.39 | Zolden | A1win change 2400 to 1850 |
| 16:53.57 | A1win | I'll also make it >= 1850 instead of > |
| 16:54.04 | A1win | and >= 1700 for k = 15 |
| 16:54.12 | Zolden | yea |
| 16:54.18 | A1win | maybe k = 30 if player has less than 5 games played, else 25 |
| 16:54.26 | Zolden | yea |
| 16:54.31 | Zolden | sounds reasonable |
| 16:54.46 | Zolden | because initial values are not precise until some games played |
| 16:55.08 | A1win | *5 rounds |
| 16:56.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Telshin (~Telshin@76.164.170.2) |
| 16:56.55 | A1win | that healed stat is a bit useless |
| 16:56.59 | Zolden | in my map most players are in 1400 - 1700 range |
| 16:57.04 | A1win | could take it away so there's more room to add other stats later ;p |
| 16:58.05 | Zolden | yea, show only crytical or fun numbers |
| 16:59.31 | kingTD | Zolden so sup with the ability to move towers? |
| 17:02.04 | Dustin | A1win, |
| 17:02.13 | Dustin | Replace healed with accuracy |
| 17:02.34 | A1win | mm maybe, just not easy to calculate it with all the different types of weapons |
| 17:02.41 | A1win | lots of special cases |
| 17:02.48 | Dustin | Ya true |
| 17:02.55 | A1win | I'll add it later |
| 17:03.20 | Dustin | Maybe an overall accuracy percent that averaged everything |
| 17:03.50 | A1win | yeah for the display |
| 17:03.52 | Dustin | what about, suicides? |
| 17:04.14 | A1win | well the awards will have stuff like most deaths by vortex |
| 17:04.21 | A1win | not sure if needed separately for every player |
| 17:04.32 | Dustin | cool, ya I can't really think of anything else |
| 17:04.46 | A1win | average velocity :P |
| 17:05.54 | A1win | hmm wonder if I should just hide the elo rating while rounds played < 5 |
| 17:05.56 | Dustin | Oh what about Elo change |
| 17:06.10 | Dustin | so you can see how much elo you shifted that round |
| 17:06.18 | A1win | hmm true, that might be useful |
| 17:06.35 | Dustin | Cause I wouldnt want to do the math when just glancing |
| 17:06.50 | A1win | though that might fit in the elo column as (+x) |
| 17:07.03 | Dustin | Ya that would work |
| 17:07.10 | Dustin | probably owuld be better that way |
| 17:10.58 | Zolden | kingTD it will be implemented one day |
| 17:11.51 | Zolden | Dustin suicides? you think emo will play it? |
| 17:13.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (~proprieta@111.58.122.180) |
| 17:14.32 | Dustin | lol yes, "My spaceship bleeds blaaaack!" |
| 17:15.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (proprietar@73.144.200.192.client.dyn.strong-sf75.as22781.net) |
| 17:15.39 | A1win | mmf |
| 17:15.51 | A1win | actually, won't really fit into that slot |
| 17:16.01 | A1win | this font is wide :P |
| 17:16.04 | A1win | maybe I should change it |
| 17:16.16 | kingTD | Zolden wtf enemy built on my Mana Res... where i already placed the mine |
| 17:18.41 | A1win | meh, better to just add a column than widen every column |
| 17:19.17 | Zolden | kingTD not sure how is it possible |
| 17:19.24 | Zolden | i saw it once before |
| 17:19.28 | A1win | makes the numbers align better too |
| 17:24.32 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2019-24-04-39.jpg |
| 17:25.00 | Zolden | found a nice song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yOeFk6CLug |
| 17:26.27 | Dustin | Looks good! |
| 17:28.37 | A1win | feel like the elo change column should have centered justification |
| 17:29.52 | A1win | for values |
| 17:30.25 | A1win | nah |
| 17:33.08 | A1win | hehe made the sign a bit darker, can't even notice it has different color but looks better |
| 17:34.20 | A1win | O: or maybe it should be green/red |
| 17:34.25 | A1win | the value |
| 17:34.37 | Zolden | is gui triggers stuff = xml? |
| 17:35.16 | A1win | it modifies the same stuff as the XML |
| 17:35.21 | A1win | but in a different way |
| 17:36.29 | Zolden | so the new obfuscation of gui code will make it unreadable for hackers? |
| 17:36.39 | Zolden | but they won't see gui stuff of locked maps? |
| 17:37.04 | A1win | mmf? |
| 17:37.17 | A1win | it doesn't modify the XML, just the same values |
| 17:37.19 | Zolden | they say it obfuscates gui-generated part of galaxy code |
| 17:37.41 | A1win | ahh |
| 17:37.44 | Zolden | while custom scripts will saty unmodified |
| 17:37.49 | A1win | yeah |
| 17:37.56 | A1win | the GUI triggers are stored as XML |
| 17:37.57 | Zolden | so, waht will a hacker see when he opens a locked map from cash? |
| 17:38.06 | A1win | thought you were talking about in-game UI |
| 17:38.50 | A1win | dunno |
| 17:39.42 | A1win | wooo http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2019-39-20-02.jpg |
| 17:53.16 | Dustin | high fives A1win |
| 17:53.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (proprietar@73.144.200.192.client.dyn.strong-sf75.as22781.net) |
| 17:55.00 | kingTD | Zolden so u nerfed the Snow Queen splash sliding stun to 1 or less sec? |
| 17:55.31 | Zolden | kingTD as I said I nerfed all a little, so how OP is it now? |
| 17:56.03 | kingTD | if the Splash Queen still slides more than one sec its still op |
| 17:56.06 | kingTD | as fuck |
| 17:56.23 | A1win | should probably test this thing before adding more ;p |
| 17:58.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (proprietar@73.144.200.192.client.dyn.strong-sf75.as22781.net) |
| 17:59.05 | Zolden | kingTD how about to base your judgement on practice? |
| 17:59.53 | kingTD | nothing here to practice it deals great dmg, and these sliding is just making the best mana fucker ever |
| 18:00.45 | Zolden | isn't this too big? http://i.snag.gy/VyxIB.jpg |
| 18:01.11 | kingTD | no |
| 18:03.59 | Zolden | kingTD ok, i'll test all magicians and balance them |
| 18:04.04 | Zolden | like i used to test before |
| 18:06.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (proprietar@72.168.255.173.client.dyn.strong-sf75.as22781.net) |
| 18:13.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (~proprieta@111.58.122.180) |
| 18:15.03 | kingTD | Zolden carried out team with queens |
| 18:15.06 | kingTD | really not imba |
| 18:15.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (proprietar@70.144.200.192.client.dyn.strong-sf75.as22781.net) |
| 18:15.56 | kingTD | btw those 2 waves of daimond fuckers is just plain sad. |
| 18:20.28 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2020-20-01-96.jpg |
| 18:20.57 | kingTD | 100 game of MM |
| 18:21.19 | kingTD | Give ME ACHIEVEMETNS! |
| 18:25.43 | Zolden | kingTD so queens are not op anymore? |
| 18:25.49 | Zolden | kingTD there will be soon |
| 18:26.05 | kingTD | how they are not? SNOW QUEENS ARE FFS |
| 18:26.17 | Zolden | for example, a send that you can see from his eyes? |
| 18:27.36 | Zolden | also maybe badass looking drill laser |
| 18:27.52 | Zolden | or flags on your buildings? |
| 18:28.20 | A1win | hats |
| 18:28.55 | Zolden | or ability to cast "fcuked vision" on enemy players? |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip174-68-90-32.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 18:43.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 18:51.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-4dbb1750.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:53.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster Fisker (~ballmer@2a01:4f8:d12:1104:d1e:d1e:d1e:d1e) |
| 18:56.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Fisker (~ballmer@developersdevelopersdevelopers.dk) |
| 18:56.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:1680:60a:f66d:4ff:fe93:2e29) |
| 18:59.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster mille25 (548732f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.135.50.245) |
| 19:01.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:02.00 | ArcanePariah | Yoink |
| 19:02.14 | ArcanePariah | I see the trollfiesta has ended |
| 19:02.26 | Zolden | fucker was banned |
| 19:02.33 | mille25 | trollfiesta? :D |
| 19:02.37 | kingTD | ?? |
| 19:02.37 | G0A | :D |
| 19:02.54 | ArcanePariah | trollfiesta = last night Stewox/Deadz/G0A |
| 19:03.06 | ArcanePariah | I have him on ignore, but hearing G0A was priceless :D |
| 19:03.16 | mille25 | ah, the conspiracy guy |
| 19:03.20 | G0A | it was this morning here:D |
| 19:03.29 | ArcanePariah | but yeah, trollfiesta :D |
| 19:03.46 | mille25 | were the fuck is nick |
| 19:03.49 | G0A | saved this quote: "there is always more logic in conspiracy research than anything else, this is the first thing you need to know" |
| 19:03.51 | mille25 | need some datamining from 2.1 =D |
| 19:04.15 | G0A | yeah where is Jade to data mine? |
| 19:04.17 | ArcanePariah | mille25: Mostly tooltips changed in data editor |
| 19:04.24 | ArcanePariah | Lots added in actors |
| 19:04.35 | mille25 | okay, thats cool |
| 19:04.35 | Zolden | kingTD you captured my mine, stolen my food... you punch my breath away... (it's a song by Freddy Ogrecury from Snow Queen band) |
| 19:04.38 | ArcanePariah | Number of flags were finally explained, might actually be useful |
| 19:04.46 | mille25 | i saw the thread on mapster |
| 19:04.58 | mille25 | seems kinda disappointing overall though |
| 19:05.07 | kingTD | cool song bro - Zolden |
| 19:05.18 | Zolden | your story cool! |
| 19:05.20 | ArcanePariah | like Model Flags, and the general flags in Actors (External Finder/Not Saved/Suppress Creation Errors/Response to Unit Player Change) |
| 19:05.22 | Dustin | Starbound beta released :D |
| 19:05.32 | mille25 | its def. a cool change |
| 19:05.38 | mille25 | but kinda expected more after half a year or so. |
| 19:05.45 | Dustin | http://store.steampowered.com/app/211820/ |
| 19:05.57 | ArcanePariah | Well, someone said they fixed a number of bugs with game attributes? |
| 19:06.11 | ArcanePariah | So you can now set player defaults for attribtues in mods |
| 19:06.31 | mille25 | script obfuscations sounds cool, too, but its probably not interresting for most players. will have to take a look at that |
| 19:06.37 | ArcanePariah | Itss... not much |
| 19:07.02 | ArcanePariah | All it does is hash all the id's for variables and function names (user ones, not library ones) |
| 19:07.10 | ArcanePariah | and strips out formatting |
| 19:07.19 | ArcanePariah | also, it only works on code generated from UI |
| 19:07.24 | ArcanePariah | no custom scripts |
| 19:07.35 | ArcanePariah | (Won't obfuscate custom scripts) |
| 19:07.39 | mille25 | okay, but that at least makes it much harder to read |
| 19:07.44 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 19:08.03 | mille25 | also you cant open a script and search for "bank password" or shit anymore :D |
| 19:08.33 | mille25 | its weird that they made it based on gui, im glad i coded almost everything in gui lol |
| 19:08.39 | ArcanePariah | true, but also, if your custom script interacts with GUI script at all, it will fail |
| 19:08.46 | ArcanePariah | Like starcode won't work with it |
| 19:08.51 | ArcanePariah | throws a compile error |
| 19:09.13 | ArcanePariah | Didn't really look beyond that. Then again, if we get serverside banks, won't have to bother encrypting banks anymore |
| 19:09.15 | mille25 | you mean if custom script calls a gui function? |
| 19:09.48 | ArcanePariah | Lemme just post what the tooltip says |
| 19:09.55 | mille25 | it actually makes sense |
| 19:09.56 | mille25 | fuck |
| 19:10.02 | mille25 | well then its entirely useless haha |
| 19:10.21 | ArcanePariah | If the custom script refers to auto generated ID's it may fail |
| 19:10.26 | ArcanePariah | with compile errors |
| 19:10.28 | ArcanePariah | so yeah |
| 19:10.31 | ArcanePariah | kind of worthless |
| 19:10.35 | mille25 | yeah its pretty obvious |
| 19:10.44 | mille25 | since all gui functions will have random names |
| 19:10.54 | mille25 | makes it even weirder that they decided to implement it on gui level |
| 19:11.30 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... it raises the bar, but not by much... really they need to hash EVERYTHING, libary calls, trigger definitions, type definitions |
| 19:11.41 | ArcanePariah | That's the only way it will truly be obsfucated |
| 19:11.45 | mille25 | can you post a small example script on pastebin? |
| 19:11.48 | mille25 | wanna see how it looks like. |
| 19:11.49 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, one sec |
| 19:13.35 | ArcanePariah | https://pastee.org/vnzvz |
| 19:14.10 | ArcanePariah | makes it hard to read, but the code structure is still there, so one could write a fairly complex but through regex to undo it |
| 19:14.51 | mille25 | okay, i was afraid that the hash might be very long and increase code size |
| 19:15.04 | mille25 | but it seems to be the length of an average function/variable name, so thats ok. |
| 19:15.15 | Zolden | kingTD ArcanePariah |
| 19:15.18 | Zolden | crap |
| 19:15.19 | ArcanePariah | Actually, all the hashes are to ints |
| 19:15.22 | mille25 | might even make the code smaller. |
| 19:15.28 | ArcanePariah | take that back, 1 byte |
| 19:15.28 | Zolden | kingTD http://i.snag.gy/MzygJ.jpg |
| 19:15.40 | ArcanePariah | since all the ID's are 8 character hex |
| 19:15.45 | kingTD | cool elo |
| 19:15.50 | ArcanePariah | so int size |
| 19:15.54 | Zolden | your elo is cool! |
| 19:16.00 | G0A | Zolden you copied it from homm?:) |
| 19:16.03 | kingTD | fire looks lame |
| 19:16.13 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, it makes all identifiers into 4 bytes |
| 19:16.19 | Zolden | yea, i'll now make a badass fire |
| 19:16.24 | Zolden | just BADASS |
| 19:16.40 | A1win | I think I'll just call my elo rating "Rating" |
| 19:16.49 | A1win | not many know what Elo Rating is |
| 19:17.23 | A1win | (including me until earlier today) |
| 19:17.31 | Zolden | G0A yea, completely |
| 19:18.34 | Zolden | A1win call it badassnes |
| 19:18.38 | mille25 | if the hashes always have the same values as long as the name doesnt change, then you could just call the hashed function name from custom script |
| 19:18.43 | mille25 | would be messy but it should work |
| 19:18.46 | Zolden | or badassity coefficient |
| 19:19.31 | mille25 | well actually it wouldnt work, because then you couldnt compile without obfuscating and therefore not test the map, haha |
| 19:19.37 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2021-19-13-77.jpg |
| 19:19.55 | A1win | (shows - as rating if player has less than 5 rounds played) |
| 19:19.57 | ArcanePariah | and yeah mille25, it does save a fair amount of space, my raw mapscript.galaxy is 1.97 MB, the text file with the copied script is 1.37 MB |
| 19:20.05 | ArcanePariah | So not bad |
| 19:20.54 | mille25 | is it a checkbox somewhere? |
| 19:21.03 | mille25 | like, turning it on/off? |
| 19:21.04 | ArcanePariah | Yes, Preferences -> General |
| 19:21.10 | mille25 | or how does it work? |
| 19:21.25 | ArcanePariah | Oops |
| 19:21.31 | ArcanePariah | Preferences -> Battle.net |
| 19:21.40 | ArcanePariah | And it only does it to locked maps |
| 19:21.48 | ArcanePariah | it obfuscates right when you publish |
| 19:22.04 | mille25 | ok then its completly unusable |
| 19:22.06 | ArcanePariah | After you select locked/unlocked/mapname |
| 19:22.17 | ArcanePariah | it obfuscates before you confirm upload |
| 19:22.25 | A1win | doh, had forgotten to puc lock camera input on |
| 19:22.44 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, useless for now, but serves as a basis (I hope) for future extension |
| 19:23.27 | ArcanePariah | Perfect world is 2.2 gives us serverside banks, and the obfuscation does it to all elements |
| 19:23.35 | ArcanePariah | or at least more elements |
| 19:23.50 | mille25 | it just seems weird to me |
| 19:24.00 | mille25 | they probably didnt have time for a proper implementation |
| 19:24.06 | mille25 | so they just hacked it into the gui compiler |
| 19:24.18 | ArcanePariah | Probably, you did say they wanted to do serverside bansk for 2.1 but ran out of time? |
| 19:24.32 | mille25 | yep |
| 19:25.11 | ArcanePariah | I'm guessing to properly do things, they would need to make a hashed version of their current libraries/code so they can hash all lib calls in scripts |
| 19:25.24 | ArcanePariah | plus the same for all data types |
| 19:25.48 | ArcanePariah | Which kind of sucks since that means people will need to have 2 libraries, 1 hashed, 1 unhashed |
| 19:26.52 | ArcanePariah | Also, I think it would help if the obfuscation randomzied the script structure. So instead of the thing checking if trigger defined, followed by the trigger execute followed by trigger definition, place those all over, as long as they in correct order |
| 19:26.58 | mille25 | not really. they would just need to change the point at which the obfuscation happens. right now it happens when the gui gets compiled to galaxy code. a proper implementation would take the already existing galaxy code, and obfuscate that. (after all other steps have been completed), and then replace the script file of them map before upload. |
| 19:27.50 | ArcanePariah | Then I wasn't clear before, that's what it does right now |
| 19:28.14 | ArcanePariah | It obfuscates right before upload |
| 19:28.22 | ArcanePariah | Unless I'm misunderstanding you |
| 19:28.33 | mille25 | yeah, but not based on the .galaxy file, but on triggers.xml |
| 19:29.27 | ArcanePariah | Oh I see... it isn't even hashing, it just replacing the GUI ID's with the triggers.xml Id's... |
| 19:29.30 | mille25 | its way easier for them to do it that way. |
| 19:29.59 | ArcanePariah | That's why it doesn't work with custom script... |
| 19:30.02 | ArcanePariah | :/ |
| 19:30.04 | mille25 | yep |
| 19:30.12 | mille25 | and there is basically no fix |
| 19:30.23 | mille25 | because if you change your custom script to call the IDs instead of the names, it wont work locally |
| 19:30.27 | mille25 | and vice versa |
| 19:31.08 | ArcanePariah | So if anything, the "obfuscation" is simply a compression step that makes the map easier to run/upload... |
| 19:31.23 | ArcanePariah | Bleh |
| 19:32.01 | mille25 | here is the thing: the only project who would really want to use this are big projects, so its harder to steal code and the code file size gets lower. however, most big projekts will use custom script at some point, which then makes it impossible to profit from this feature. |
| 19:32.39 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... my map only uses a custom script library atm, but I had intended to write my own AI routines in the future... |
| 19:33.19 | ArcanePariah | Then again, most big projects (not a jab at anyone) probably would benefit more from refactoring trigger stufff in data anyhow... |
| 19:33.56 | mille25 | =D |
| 19:33.58 | ArcanePariah | At least that has been my experience with NotD, I've spent the last year mostly just code refactoring, elimnated a sizeable chunk of script |
| 19:34.12 | ArcanePariah | Mostly a jab at myself, when I first started helping NotD, code was 55k lines |
| 19:34.16 | ArcanePariah | now its down to 41k |
| 19:34.33 | ArcanePariah | And still more can be removed/refactored |
| 19:34.42 | ArcanePariah | Right now templating stuff into UI editor |
| 19:35.12 | ArcanePariah | So less mass creation of dialog items and more just create from template and only create dialog items that actually are interacted with |
| 19:35.14 | mille25 | SCUs code is mainly so big because all AI and spells are done via script |
| 19:35.35 | mille25 | which i have to say im not regretting :D |
| 19:35.50 | Dustin | I wouldnt either |
| 19:35.56 | Dustin | I couldnt imagine doing all data for SCU |
| 19:35.58 | Dustin | Oh god |
| 19:36.16 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... AI scripts are fine, I would at least say you should place the AI functions in the AI function data field in data so they can use it all the time |
| 19:36.28 | A1win | this map is 10k generated script lines D: |
| 19:36.29 | ArcanePariah | And yeah, tactical AI is somewhat limited |
| 19:36.48 | ArcanePariah | It can get rather complicated for multitudes of abilites on one unit |
| 19:37.04 | ArcanePariah | Plus doesn't help its not well documented |
| 19:37.10 | ArcanePariah | : |
| 19:37.13 | ArcanePariah | :/ |
| 19:37.25 | mille25 | i also do all UI in script |
| 19:37.28 | mille25 | which i also dont regret |
| 19:38.05 | ArcanePariah | ??? Well... that has more to do with the fact your entire UI is dynamic, none of it is for show, I assume the vast majority of your variables relate to it |
| 19:38.07 | mille25 | got a special gui lib which makes everything easy and smooth |
| 19:38.28 | ArcanePariah | IIRC, you allowed any UI frame to be repositioned? |
| 19:39.03 | A1win | scripted GUI is nice, easy to modify |
| 19:39.07 | A1win | *UI |
| 19:39.24 | A1win | even if it's not dynamic in-game |
| 19:39.46 | ArcanePariah | True, but Ui editor makes positioning multiple elements (nested ones especially) much easier |
| 19:39.50 | mille25 | some frames can be moved, others cant |
| 19:40.19 | ArcanePariah | Also, more code = more complexity = more things that can go wrong |
| 19:40.39 | ArcanePariah | Trigger really should only be for dynamic/event based logic |
| 19:40.48 | ArcanePariah | Anything static -> Dtat |
| 19:40.50 | ArcanePariah | Data* |
| 19:41.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster nevzets (~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets) |
| 19:42.50 | ArcanePariah | I've been thinking... would SC2 be any faster/more efficient if it stored everything in a proper database instead of just raw XML? Is XML parsing more effective then a database engine or is it good enough and more flexible then haveing to tune a data base engine |
| 19:43.03 | ArcanePariah | Because afaict, nearly everything ends up as XML |
| 19:43.26 | mille25 | xml is pretty efficient |
| 19:44.04 | mille25 | the main reason why they used xml was that its readable by humans i think |
| 19:44.18 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, its easy for humans to change as well |
| 19:44.23 | mille25 | its the perfect format for that kind of stuff. |
| 19:44.38 | mille25 | and yeah, in general i agree ArcanePariah : static data does not belong into triggers |
| 19:45.06 | mille25 | however, just in practice i have the experience that sometimes triggers still make it easier to handle, even though it might not be the "theoretically" best apporach. |
| 19:45.14 | mille25 | just as an example: |
| 19:45.20 | ArcanePariah | TBH, I'm surprised no one has written a standalone XML wizard for basic units, since it should be trivial to emit valid XML |
| 19:45.35 | mille25 | i dont have experience in gui xml editing in starcraft, however, can you resize a frame and make all elements within it automatically adjust their size and position? |
| 19:45.39 | ArcanePariah | Oh I agree, there are many triggers where I COULD do it in data, but would take 5x the work |
| 19:45.51 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 19:46.34 | mille25 | ok, thats cool |
| 19:46.40 | ArcanePariah | All sub frames of a frame have their position based on anchors to the parent frame and the element width/height |
| 19:46.42 | mille25 | can you make values based on constants/refs? |
| 19:46.52 | ArcanePariah | in UI? Yes |
| 19:47.00 | mille25 | okay cool |
| 19:47.03 | mille25 | then it sounds quite usable to me. |
| 19:47.11 | mille25 | at least for static layouts |
| 19:48.00 | mille25 | (i still couldnt use it though because my script would need additional information about the ui) |
| 19:48.35 | ArcanePariah | Yes, that is the major downfall of creating frames from templates, you can not easily access child frames |
| 19:48.53 | ArcanePariah | So if you have any child elements that are dynamic, you need to create them seperately |
| 19:49.05 | mille25 | is the ui editor actually functional? the visual ingame one? didnt hear anything about that in a long time. |
| 19:49.41 | A1win | it's a viewer, rather |
| 19:49.45 | ArcanePariah | It is functional in that you can use it to see any frame element and explore all UI elements. You can adjust many of the properties to see what happens |
| 19:49.51 | ArcanePariah | But you can't save |
| 19:50.11 | ArcanePariah | So it is more of a viewer/tester, but not a true editor |
| 19:50.52 | ArcanePariah | I use it mainly to position elements correctly |
| 19:51.03 | ArcanePariah | sicne you can adjust offsets and it will change them live |
| 19:51.16 | ArcanePariah | Along with other properties like color/alpha, etc. |
| 19:52.47 | mille25 | hm okay |
| 19:52.51 | mille25 | thats better than nothing |
| 19:53.04 | mille25 | they probably skipped development of it once hotS became its own client. |
| 19:53.38 | Zolden | does anyone have an example of how obfuscated code look like? |
| 19:53.47 | ArcanePariah | Yes, see my paste abpve |
| 19:53.50 | ArcanePariah | above* |
| 19:55.11 | ArcanePariah | From what we can tell, all it does is replace the GUI script ID's with the corresponding triggers.xml ID's |
| 19:55.36 | ArcanePariah | so nameofrandomfunction becomes A53B13CC |
| 19:55.46 | ArcanePariah | Or w/e its entry is in the triggers.xml |
| 19:55.51 | Zolden | not enough |
| 19:56.03 | ArcanePariah | Well duh, obviously a WIP |
| 19:56.06 | Zolden | i hope it will look like 3589nv35ym390t7k4o5789td4k05t894k05t89h3f4k05t8du893h405t89fh354t354 all along |
| 19:56.11 | Zolden | *hoped |
| 19:56.15 | ArcanePariah | lol no |
| 19:56.25 | ArcanePariah | Not worth the perfomance hit |
| 19:56.41 | ArcanePariah | All the trigger ID's are int's, why make them fixed? |
| 19:57.48 | Zolden | ArcanePariah and what does a hacker see when he opens a map from cash? |
| 19:57.54 | Zolden | like no gui triggers, jsut this code? |
| 19:58.01 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 19:58.10 | ArcanePariah | It replaces your mapscript.galaxy with that |
| 19:58.14 | ArcanePariah | on publish |
| 19:58.22 | Zolden | and how hard do you think it will be to understand and hack it? |
| 19:58.45 | A1win | not hard, just time consuming |
| 19:58.48 | ArcanePariah | For someone who is familiar with it, not hard, but then again, NO security will keep a determined hacker out |
| 19:59.16 | Zolden | even a server side bank? |
| 19:59.16 | ArcanePariah | All this does is raise the bar and deter lesser motivated individuals from bypassing it |
| 19:59.53 | ArcanePariah | Serverside bank is indeed more secure, but no, it is not perfect, I could attempt to hack Blizzard servers |
| 20:00.07 | ArcanePariah | and if succesful, get all banks |
| 20:00.26 | Zolden | yea, it would require alot of motivation and knowledge |
| 20:00.56 | ArcanePariah | Yes, in that case, we are fairly safely assuming Blizzard servers are more secure then any random players computer |
| 20:01.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets) |
| 20:01.53 | ArcanePariah | The only truly safe way for Blizzard to secure mapscript code would be to let us upload it, and when players go to play the game, load the mapscript directly into memory, and never let the players download it |
| 20:02.09 | ArcanePariah | never write the code to disk/cache |
| 20:02.11 | Zolden | also, if they succeed and get all banks, it will be a problem to find a bank from a particular map they want to hack |
| 20:02.29 | ArcanePariah | Not really |
| 20:02.32 | Zolden | hackers can dump it from memory |
| 20:02.41 | ArcanePariah | Since banks by necessity are linked to the author b.net ID |
| 20:02.56 | ArcanePariah | Yes but that is fairly risky |
| 20:03.01 | Zolden | yea |
| 20:03.14 | ArcanePariah | Fuck up, Warden catches you, banned, gg |
| 20:03.31 | ArcanePariah | So yes, doable, but sets the bar WAY high, for little return |
| 20:03.38 | kingTD | heh |
| 20:03.39 | kingTD | http://www.ongamers.com/articles/riot-season-4-lcs-contracts-stipulate-players-cannot-stream-dota-2-blizzard-games/1100-261/ |
| 20:03.47 | mille25 | we actually spoke with blizz about this |
| 20:03.54 | mille25 | about map protection |
| 20:04.01 | Zolden | and what they said? |
| 20:04.14 | ArcanePariah | lol kingTD, greedy imo... wtf? |
| 20:04.16 | mille25 | they said that its not worth it atm and hackers will "find a way anyways" |
| 20:04.30 | ArcanePariah | And they would be correct |
| 20:04.50 | ArcanePariah | Unless the game code executes solely serverside, it will always be hackable |
| 20:05.06 | mille25 | well, it could at least be so much work that nobody would even try to attempt it. |
| 20:05.13 | Zolden | ok |
| 20:05.21 | ArcanePariah | Well serverside banks in theory are the solution in that case |
| 20:05.36 | ArcanePariah | since mapscript is rarely sought, only bank code so people can cheat |
| 20:05.37 | mille25 | just for save files, not for stolen code, models etc |
| 20:06.05 | mille25 | but well, they also pointed out that they kinda like the openness of sc2s platform atm |
| 20:06.08 | mille25 | and i sort of agree. |
| 20:06.26 | mille25 | it still sucks though if anyone can steal all your models in literally seconds. |
| 20:06.41 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... but that is somewhat been the case for all time in the tech world |
| 20:06.45 | mille25 | id probably need 5mins to steal any model from any map |
| 20:07.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836ba0b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.160.182) |
| 20:07.55 | ArcanePariah | Welp... if one is making models for cash, one should either use a distributor (Steam) or only make the model on a contract 1 time basis |
| 20:08.08 | ArcanePariah | At which point you don't care it people use it, you made it and got paid |
| 20:08.30 | ArcanePariah | And if you are doing it for free, then... I think an artist would appreciate their work being used far and wide |
| 20:10.00 | DeadZergling | that is a nice, simple, and practical way to do it. |
| 20:10.18 | DeadZergling | have a feeling I missed a lot of other conversation though :) |
| 20:11.20 | ArcanePariah | We were discussing the merits of securing map code, and Blizzard apparently doesn't care because A) It is mostly futiles and B) They prefer more openness with SC2 (Which makes sense, other borrow from people and evolve a genre. DotA wasn't made by 1 person or in a day) |
| 20:12.16 | A1win | mmf shouldn't hide the rating after all, just confuses players... |
| 20:12.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster maltenp (~maltenp@c-31e170d5.09-37-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:13.29 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2022-12-57-46.jpg |
| 20:13.33 | DeadZergling | I was thinking it made sense since it meant more free labor for them, lol. |
| 20:14.25 | DeadZergling | your spreadsheet is getting bigger I see |
| 20:15.03 | A1win | my todo list is getting shorter ;O |
| 20:15.16 | A1win | and would be nice list larger |
| 20:15.20 | A1win | but that's fine |
| 20:15.46 | A1win | now I just need to add some abilities and I'm don- oh, the name... |
| 20:16.05 | DeadZergling | Excel Spreadsheet 2014? |
| 20:16.34 | DeadZergling | In Spaaaaacccceee! |
| 20:19.35 | kingTD | http://esportsexpress.com/2013/12/david-kims-gmail-hacked/ |
| 20:21.24 | DeadZergling | heh, at first I read Esport Sexpress |
| 20:24.13 | A1win | somehow I don't like the green selection color for my column titles D: |
| 20:24.17 | kingTD | at second I read the same and continue with the news |
| 20:24.27 | A1win | the dark yellowish orange is nice when it turns bright yellow when selected |
| 20:24.32 | A1win | but can't do the same for white ;p |
| 20:24.37 | A1win | can't make it whiterer |
| 20:25.01 | A1win | wonder how grey titles would look... |
| 20:26.03 | A1win | hmm not too bad |
| 20:26.30 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2022-26-06-54.jpg |
| 20:28.19 | DeadZergling | yea, but seems a little odd that the titles are less visible than the data |
| 20:28.52 | A1win | mm just making data darker too |
| 20:28.59 | A1win | and could maybe brighten the titles a bit |
| 20:29.17 | Zolden | kingTD do you think this fire is badass enough? http://i.snag.gy/ltgQ1.jpg |
| 20:29.43 | kingTD | it denpends on what u will be using |
| 20:29.48 | kingTD | the surcumstances :d |
| 20:29.56 | Zolden | circumstances |
| 20:30.12 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2022-29-48-32.jpg |
| 20:30.27 | Zolden | dragon will throw 9 of these fire fountains a time |
| 20:30.37 | A1win | fraps jpg quality a bit bad it seems, the reds and greens are a bit desaturated |
| 20:33.32 | kingTD | Zolden then it will look like shit |
| 20:33.45 | kingTD | it needs to be more spalshy and big |
| 20:34.10 | kingTD | would fly big textures |
| 20:34.11 | kingTD | of it |
| 20:34.13 | kingTD | particles |
| 20:36.24 | A1win | any way to enable all 16 colors with less than 8 players? |
| 20:37.39 | A1win | there is! |
| 20:37.56 | A1win | Gameplay Data, UI: Team Colors - Minimum Player Count |
| 20:38.56 | A1win | can change all the colors there too |
| 20:39.03 | kingTD | well |
| 20:39.27 | A1win | and enable the neutral player color as player choice |
| 20:41.31 | DeadZergling | don't make it too big Zolden, one thing your map has going for it right now that Squadron Defense does not, is lack of graphical lag |
| 20:41.45 | DeadZergling | second half of Squadron Defense it ALWAYS lags |
| 20:42.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster JademusSreg (~jademus.s@c-76-123-235-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 20:43.21 | mille25 | JademusSreg: 2.1PTR is live, we need some mining! :D |
| 20:43.30 | JademusSreg | Yep. Did some last night. |
| 20:43.35 | mille25 | good. |
| 20:43.50 | JademusSreg | No new native functions. |
| 20:43.55 | mille25 | bad. |
| 20:44.31 | mille25 | anything interresting besides not working code obfuscation and extention mods? |
| 20:45.08 | JademusSreg | Here's my first grab of UI frame-related stuff. https://pastee.org/ps7ry |
| 20:45.40 | JademusSreg | Line 969 looks interesting. |
| 20:46.39 | A1win | err |
| 20:46.51 | A1win | even though I enabled the player colors in the data, I can still only pick from the 8 |
| 20:47.40 | JademusSreg | A1, wat about colors in the Variants? |
| 20:47.52 | A1win | looks fine there |
| 20:47.54 | A1win | all 16 are shown |
| 20:47.56 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 20:48.18 | A1win | only 8 were shown before I enabled them in the gameplay data |
| 20:48.29 | A1win | where it has minimum number of players set to 8 for 8 of the colors |
| 20:49.55 | JademusSreg | I'm curious what the Handle property would return. Compare: https://pastee.org/p25sb |
| 20:50.30 | JademusSreg | A1, which Gameplay Data entry did you modify? |
| 20:50.46 | A1win | Default SC2 Gameplay Settings |
| 20:51.12 | JademusSreg | Hm. Odd. |
| 20:52.47 | JademusSreg | Anyway, the dialog control property Handle must be unrelated to the galaxy handle type. Handle is probably a unique string identifying the dialog control's position within the frame structure. |
| 20:53.56 | DeadZergling | ah, found a link to what would have been a perfect summary of what stewox believes is wrong with america, oh well, :) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1490372091/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1490372091&linkCode=as2&tag=natdee-20 |
| 20:54.04 | mille25 | seems like this patch will be pretty disappointing :( |
| 20:54.29 | JademusSreg | Funny that the natives are missing enum constants for AnimIndex and UseAspectUncorrection |
| 20:55.02 | A1win | JademusSreg, look :O http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/a110/SC2%202013-12-04%2022-33-46-67.jpg |
| 20:55.27 | A1win | implemented Elo rating system with Zolden's guidance |
| 20:55.38 | JademusSreg | Naw, extension mods bring greater modularity, and I can only guess what additions have been made to layout frames. |
| 20:56.02 | JademusSreg | Don't like Elo, but looks slick. =D |
| 20:56.20 | A1win | what's wrong with it? |
| 20:56.26 | JademusSreg | Inflation. |
| 20:56.53 | A1win | mm no idea how bad that will get |
| 20:58.27 | DeadZergling | well I think it is terrific to have an Elo system on a map you can't win. |
| 20:58.36 | DeadZergling | not talking about your map of course, A1win |
| 20:58.51 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:00.12 | A1win | left on todo list: more abilities (magnet mine, homing missile, cloak... for now), ship and planet models (hopefully), loading screen, name |
| 21:00.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@p57902398.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:00.51 | A1win | 17 items on would be nice list |
| 21:01.13 | A1win | and that doesn't even have weapon/ability ideas |
| 21:02.16 | Zolden | DeadZergling I think squad td lags are not graphical |
| 21:03.02 | DeadZergling | oh no? well tell you what, pick ghost or mech or whatever builder type lets you make thunderbirds |
| 21:03.14 | DeadZergling | and watch the lag happen |
| 21:03.35 | Zolden | he has some leaks |
| 21:03.39 | Zolden | not graphical |
| 21:03.46 | Zolden | it feels like triggeral lag |
| 21:03.52 | Zolden | or maybe data, not sure |
| 21:04.14 | DeadZergling | it is bad, really bad |
| 21:04.14 | Zolden | I was super attentive to any lag sources, so it will stay fast |
| 21:04.34 | DeadZergling | when you see that timer closig in on 5 seconds |
| 21:04.45 | DeadZergling | you just gotta hope to move your view elsewhere in time |
| 21:05.36 | Zolden | well, 200 particles is only 400 triangles (one zergling has 400 triangles) |
| 21:05.44 | Zolden | and particle conveyer is prettu fast |
| 21:05.54 | Zolden | so, no graphical lag from dragon attack for sure |
| 21:06.14 | DeadZergling | yea, just be careful is all I'm saying |
| 21:06.21 | Zolden | yea, I am |
| 21:08.40 | kingTD | well particales are more dependant on cpu? |
| 21:08.53 | kingTD | than the zergling? |
| 21:09.09 | JademusSreg | =\ |
| 21:10.00 | kingTD | o/ |
| 21:10.14 | ArcanePariah | So JademusSreg, according to the triggers, Frame Handles are a unique handle, only for type Frame Dialogs |
| 21:10.30 | ArcanePariah | It also says Only used internally, w/e that means |
| 21:11.25 | JademusSreg | Yeah, sounds like it supports my previous speculation concerning the frame structure. |
| 21:12.54 | JademusSreg | I imagine, suppose you have frame It as a subframe of frame Fuck, I expect the handle would be "Fuck/It". |
| 21:14.05 | JademusSreg | Being limited to "frame dialogs" isn't altogether terrible, perhaps it can assist in accessing subframes. |
| 21:15.11 | Zolden | kingTD maybe particle polygons positions also calculating on graphical card |
| 21:15.20 | Zolden | they are just too fast to be calculated by cpu |
| 21:16.39 | JademusSreg | But since today is Starbound Beta day, SC2 must wait. |
| 21:16.40 | kingTD | well we need to make more reasearch then :P plus there is tooltips that says that particles relay on cpu more |
| 21:16.43 | A1win | JademusSreg, what if I make a custom player attribute to change the color <.< |
| 21:17.11 | Zolden | ok, i'll check fps drop on dragon attack |
| 21:17.42 | A1win | err nvm |
| 21:17.47 | JademusSreg | A1, that's silly. Must be an error somewhere, and working around an error rather than solving it is not efficient. =D |
| 21:17.47 | A1win | multiple players could pick same colors |
| 21:17.48 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 21:17.54 | A1win | haha |
| 21:18.00 | kingTD | Zolden and zergling moving :P or shit |
| 21:18.17 | A1win | unless the error can't be fixed |
| 21:20.33 | A1win | let's see what happens if I disable all the 8 colors and only leave the others |
| 21:21.52 | A1win | Variant definitions could not be validated |
| 21:22.14 | DeadZergling | what is all this color talk A1win, what problem are you having? |
| 21:22.25 | A1win | players can only choose from 8 colors in lobby |
| 21:22.47 | DeadZergling | that's, odd |
| 21:23.07 | A1win | in Gameplay Data, there's a field that sets minimum players required for colors |
| 21:23.12 | A1win | the other 8 have it set as 8 |
| 21:23.32 | A1win | but even if I set that to 0, it still lets me choose only from the usual 8 |
| 21:24.57 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.202.220.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 21:27.17 | A1win | I suspect that the 8 color limit for less than 8 players is hardcoded or something |
| 21:28.39 | A1win | which reminds me that I should test this with 8 players |
| 21:30.35 | A1win | damn, one more thing to add on todo list: Arcade info stuff |
| 21:32.43 | DeadZergling | first section for Arcade info |
| 21:32.46 | DeadZergling | Map Name |
| 21:34.25 | Zolden | kingTD http://i.snag.gy/0hlSk.jpg |
| 21:34.33 | Zolden | fps drop is barely 1 |
| 21:34.40 | mille25 | is that onyxia? |
| 21:34.44 | mille25 | :D |
| 21:34.46 | kingTD | better but still kinda shit at the same time |
| 21:34.49 | Zolden | 200 particles don't affect perfomance |
| 21:34.50 | kingTD | dont do beams |
| 21:34.55 | kingTD | do proper splash shit |
| 21:35.01 | Zolden | i'll make it more splendid |
| 21:35.20 | mille25 | looks like onyxia or nefarian :P |
| 21:35.32 | kingTD | make one particle casting shit not 3 |
| 21:35.55 | Zolden | mille25 don't remember what is his name in wow |
| 21:36.34 | Zolden | yea, i'l make one big and 3 smaller |
| 21:36.42 | kingTD | lame |
| 21:36.49 | Zolden | your story is lame |
| 21:36.51 | Zolden | bro |
| 21:37.34 | kingTD | Zolden u are lame |
| 21:38.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster ElectricPrism (~Loren@unaffiliated/electricprism) |
| 21:38.43 | Zolden | like you story |
| 21:38.45 | Zolden | bro |
| 21:41.48 | kingTD | bro u make me feel so grocary |
| 21:42.39 | JademusSreg | Twod feels like groceries? |
| 21:43.34 | kingTD | those are sooo goooooooody |
| 21:44.37 | JademusSreg | I like how the dragon looks like it's made of plastic. |
| 21:46.25 | DeadZergling | is also the same dragon in your wow model pack, isn't it Z? |
| 21:46.38 | Zolden | it's the same dragon |
| 21:46.48 | DeadZergling | yea, we need more realistic dragons don't we Jade |
| 21:46.48 | Zolden | http://i.snag.gy/4jvVq.jpg |
| 21:46.58 | DeadZergling | ones we'd expect to see in real life |
| 21:47.02 | Zolden | kingTD better? |
| 21:47.31 | kingTD | shit :/ |
| 21:47.43 | Zolden | what would you change |
| 21:47.46 | kingTD | one beam! |
| 21:48.04 | kingTD | one beam that would spit fire particles. |
| 21:48.42 | kingTD | and making them spread out properly |
| 21:49.18 | kingTD | mostly cant describe it :d |
| 21:49.19 | DeadZergling | I think Z was right, lame story bro |
| 21:50.04 | kingTD | yeah zol dont give a fuck about ur only friend and listen to ur new dead friendos |
| 21:50.23 | Zolden | http://i.snag.gy/YUYC6.jpg |
| 21:50.25 | Zolden | one beam |
| 21:50.54 | DeadZergling | one beam could work if he moves his head to do it all over the place |
| 21:51.03 | DeadZergling | the multiple beam is a lot easier to pull off though |
| 21:51.08 | kingTD | or it would spread more |
| 21:51.13 | kingTD | to the target area |
| 21:51.22 | kingTD | wide into sides |
| 21:51.47 | kingTD | and enough height |
| 21:52.15 | Zolden | oh, and what if I use a force field like delphinium used to do, to spread particles around? |
| 21:54.10 | kingTD | not a clue. but it just needs more details. in ur place i would try to watch how other people created dragon breath effect on utube. |
| 21:54.25 | kingTD | like skyrim or other dragon full games |
| 21:54.59 | DeadZergling | found a book to get Zolden for Christmas I think, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1933929936/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1933929936&linkCode=as2&tag=natdee-20 |
| 21:55.30 | Zolden | fuck them, I saw the epic 500m fire column in moscow when fag gas pipe expoded |
| 21:55.39 | Zolden | i know how huge fire look |
| 21:56.30 | kingTD | :D |
| 21:57.22 | DeadZergling | your idea might be less lame kingTD, if you at least drew a diagram |
| 21:57.24 | DeadZergling | of what you mean |
| 21:57.48 | kingTD | yeah gn :P |
| 21:58.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-227-063.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 21:59.19 | Zolden | http://www.pro-goroda.ru/sites/default/files/field/image/vzryvgaza.jpg |
| 21:59.32 | Zolden | http://cmexota.ru/uploads/2009/05/10/fire08.jpg |
| 22:00.40 | DeadZergling | maybe then, have it be a beam, followed by a nuclear explosion? Only more gradual, unless you plan to reskin the dragon to be nuclear, lol |
| 22:01.22 | Zolden | nuclear dragons would be too dangerous for nature to create them |
| 22:01.31 | DeadZergling | sure it will look great whatever you decide, just watch for the lag gremlins |
| 22:02.28 | DeadZergling | sigh, Zolden/JademusSreg, what is with you people and dragons and being realistic. |
| 22:02.36 | DeadZergling | What part of a dragon needs to be realistic. |
| 22:06.48 | A1win | Zolden, is there a reason why there are so few steps in the Elo system? like why not decrease k even more at higher ratings? |
| 22:07.26 | A1win | also, why are they steps to begin with instead of linearly decreasing k with higher ratings? |
| 22:07.47 | Zolden | A1win guess they wanted it to be simplier. You can make a smooth function k(elo, number of games) |
| 22:08.44 | A1win | since this is completely automated anyway |
| 22:09.41 | A1win | mmh what type of function decreases at a slowing rate |
| 22:09.45 | A1win | err |
| 22:09.49 | A1win | yeah |
| 22:09.58 | A1win | towards some value, or something |
| 22:11.21 | A1win | been a while since I did maths :P |
| 22:12.00 | Zolden | k should be 30 for 0 games and 1600 elo |
| 22:12.27 | Zolden | and decrease towards 10 with higher n of games and higher elo |
| 22:12.27 | A1win | dunno if it needs to depend on number of games linearly |
| 22:12.46 | A1win | why only down to 10? |
| 22:14.41 | Zolden | let it be (20 + 100/(n + 9)) * 1600/elo |
| 22:14.58 | Zolden | so it's 30 with n = 1 and elo = 1600 |
| 22:15.16 | Zolden | decreasing with higher elo or higher n of games |
| 22:16.15 | Zolden | 21 games and elo = 1700 will make it about 22 |
| 22:18.02 | Zolden | well, maybe (20 + 100/(n + 9)) * pow(1600/elo, x) where x should be somwhere between 2 and 10, just make it so when elo = 1800, k get reuced to 10-15 |
| 22:19.35 | Zolden | x = 5 is fine |
| 22:19.50 | A1win | if the elo is supposed to be between 10 and 30, why not do 10 + 20 * multiplier |
| 22:20.47 | A1win | like 10 + 20 / (elo/1600)^10 |
| 22:21.31 | Zolden | ok, 10 + 20 * min(1, (1600/elo)^5) |
| 22:22.01 | Zolden | min need to cap 1 as maximum, since it will grow fast when elo < 1600 |
| 22:22.13 | A1win | but still wondering why k can't be less than 10? |
| 22:22.18 | A1win | mm |
| 22:22.48 | Zolden | well, you can make k smaller then 10, so players will gain tiny amounts of elo |
| 22:23.17 | A1win | mmh though if it's too small, the elo changes become less than 1 and players get stuck :P |
| 22:23.33 | Zolden | yea |
| 22:24.16 | Zolden | wehn your map be published and you will see elo dynamics, you can adjust formula of k to make elo spread between 1400 and 2000 |
| 22:24.44 | Zolden | the bigger k is, and the slower it get reduced with elo grow, the higher elos players will have |
| 22:25.25 | Zolden | when a guy has bigger elo than other players, his gain won't be big anyway |
| 22:26.00 | A1win | yeah just wondering how to make the inflation not explode too fast |
| 22:26.50 | DeadZergling | Z has the perfect solution to that, make your map so you can't actually win |
| 22:26.55 | A1win | hehe |
| 22:27.03 | A1win | my rounds are very fast too |
| 22:27.11 | A1win | so might not want huge elo changes every round |
| 22:27.27 | Zolden | in my map I have elo deflation |
| 22:27.29 | A1win | maybe make k between 8 and 15 or something |
| 22:27.37 | DeadZergling | right, may want to start k at 10, going towards 1 |
| 22:27.46 | DeadZergling | for how quickly rounds go |
| 22:27.54 | A1win | if k is too small, at some point elo stops changing at all |
| 22:28.01 | A1win | because less than 0.5 becomes 0 |
| 22:28.06 | Zolden | yea, don't make it smaller than 5 |
| 22:28.07 | DeadZergling | don't be too shocked if you have to implement stealth nerfs to elo A1win |
| 22:28.15 | A1win | yea ;p |
| 22:28.24 | A1win | Zolden, is 5 fine? |
| 22:28.33 | A1win | I think I want to go as small as possible :P |
| 22:30.04 | A1win | I guess I'll just test it |
| 22:33.01 | Zolden | let 5 be minimum, and 15 maximum |
| 22:33.06 | Zolden | 15 is small yet |
| 22:33.09 | Zolden | 5 is tiny |
| 22:34.27 | Zolden | i think elo inflation may happen when players have played hundreds, mayb thousands of games, and there is a constant flow of new players who pla, lose alot and never play anymore |
| 22:34.35 | A1win | with 15 and everyone at 1600, winner gains 8 and loser loses 8 |
| 22:34.50 | Zolden | in arcade players don't play that much one map |
| 22:34.52 | A1win | *k = 15 |
| 22:35.14 | Zolden | yea, and it's not much |
| 22:35.46 | A1win | now let's try 2000 |
| 22:36.05 | A1win | +5 -5 |
| 22:36.48 | A1win | +3 -3 at 3000 elo |
| 22:36.59 | A1win | that takes the formula pretty close to minimum k |
| 22:37.12 | A1win | so it could probably be even less than 5 |
| 22:37.44 | A1win | hmm though then it wouldn't scale well |
| 22:37.51 | A1win | for the other players in between |
| 22:38.01 | A1win | yeah I guess this is fine |
| 22:38.10 | Zolden | 300 wins in a row required to gain 3000 elo points |
| 22:38.15 | A1win | hehe |
| 22:38.20 | Zolden | *to reach 3000 |
| 22:38.22 | A1win | doesn't need to be in a row :P |
| 22:38.27 | Zolden | does |
| 22:38.40 | Zolden | if he loses, he get huge decrease |
| 22:38.50 | A1win | yeah, but not back to 0 |
| 22:38.56 | Zolden | like -20 if others have much lower elo |
| 22:38.58 | A1win | *1600 |
| 22:39.16 | Zolden | so, ok, 500 wins with 50 loses |
| 22:39.20 | A1win | ;x |
| 22:39.22 | Zolden | alot of games |
| 22:39.23 | A1win | ezpz |
| 22:39.28 | A1win | challenge... accepted |
| 22:39.33 | Zolden | lol |
| 22:40.20 | A1win | anyway it's still FFA, so not hugely competitive |
| 22:40.25 | A1win | can team up and abuse the system |
| 22:42.08 | A1win | we'll see |
| 22:42.16 | A1win | some time in 2014 when I've come up with a name |
| 22:44.52 | DeadZergling | you think you will have one that soon? |
| 22:45.21 | A1win | I know, taking a huge risk calling it |
| 22:51.29 | Zolden | now fire spreads when it hit target http://i.snag.gy/BXVVM.jpg |
| 22:51.56 | A1win | increased thruster strength from 6 to 10 and max velocity from 70 to 80, if it doesn't feel too awkward, it should be easier to dodge stuff then |
| 22:52.40 | A1win | well, it will be easier to dodge stuff no matter what, just hopefully won't be too annoying to hit stuff :P |
| 22:52.45 | A1win | a fine balance |
| 22:54.13 | A1win | how about Starfall for name? |
| 22:54.23 | Zolden | when u play alot, you gain an ability to predict opponents' movements |
| 22:54.38 | A1win | yeah, but don't want to make it too annoying for new players |
| 22:54.46 | Zolden | starfall sounds fine |
| 22:55.15 | A1win | DeadZergling, any negative comments about that? |
| 22:55.49 | A1win | well |
| 22:55.54 | A1win | for one, it's unavailable <.< |
| 22:56.08 | A1win | someone's private map |
| 22:56.09 | A1win | yay |
| 22:56.22 | A1win | Starfall Arena or something |
| 22:56.49 | A1win | Starfire Arena |
| 22:57.06 | A1win | now it sounds like crap again |
| 22:57.18 | Zolden | maybe Spaceburning Stadium? |
| 22:57.42 | A1win | stadium sounds like sports :P |
| 22:59.08 | A1win | with a proper prefix, Arena might work fine |
| 22:59.21 | A1win | some word that is a good name for an arena |
| 22:59.37 | A1win | then the mapname is the name of the arena |
| 23:01.21 | A1win | and the name of the arena is actually the name of a bar on one of the planets called something that's a good name for a nearby star station that's named after a famous longjumper who got his name from his uncle |
| 23:03.01 | A1win | and the uncle's name was bob~~ and the longjumper's name was bob~~ and the star station's name was bob~~ |
| 23:03.12 | A1win | *explodes* |
| 23:03.36 | Zolden | dragon burning a group of sheeps http://i.snag.gy/VQvec.jpg |
| 23:05.11 | Dustin | Zolden |
| 23:05.17 | Dustin | I just had the most epic comeback in your map |
| 23:05.20 | Dustin | was sweet |
| 23:07.18 | Zolden | like you raped everyone? |
| 23:08.31 | Dustin | ya 2 guys quit and it was me and a noobie vs 4 dudes |
| 23:08.41 | Dustin | We held out and he ecoed while I got base guys |
| 23:09.00 | Dustin | Ended up surviving till they lost on aqua spirit |
| 23:10.15 | Zolden | ha |
| 23:11.42 | A1win | wtf, something just exploded in my game that was running on background |
| 23:12.15 | A1win | maybe I should watch replay :P |
| 23:12.36 | A1win | mmh though does this take replays of editor games |
| 23:13.54 | A1win | seems so, but how do I open it D: |
| 23:15.56 | A1win | got it |
| 23:16.46 | A1win | need to fix my spectator, can't move camera or anything :P |
| 23:16.52 | A1win | and score screen is stuck on forever |
| 23:18.07 | A1win | hahaha wtf |
| 23:18.29 | A1win | after 34 minutes, a health crate rotating a planet got too close to a ship rotating the same planet |
| 23:18.32 | A1win | and exploded |
| 23:18.48 | A1win | *orbiting |
| 23:19.11 | A1win | guess my orbit code isn't perfect :P |
| 23:19.25 | *** part/#sc2mapster sc2println (~flo@2a02:810d:1680:60a:f66d:4ff:fe93:2e29) |
| 23:20.02 | Dustin | things crash. id call it a feature :P |
| 23:20.22 | A1win | but they are supposed to move at the same speed |
| 23:20.36 | A1win | since their collisions aren't enabled while on a planet |
| 23:20.53 | A1win | so in theory, a ship could get inside another ship if they sit next to each other and wait for hours |
| 23:20.56 | A1win | :P |
| 23:22.00 | A1win | oh well not important to fix |
| 23:23.18 | A1win | dunno if it'd even bug for objects of the same size |
| 23:27.01 | A1win | could also just be that they were close to begin with and the collision detection only happened to decide they collide at that moment when the starts aligned |
| 23:27.11 | A1win | *stars |
| 23:28.20 | Dustin | Thought about having meteor's spawn and fly through the map randomly? |
| 23:28.24 | Dustin | Might add some atmosphere |
| 23:28.55 | A1win | yeah |
| 23:29.06 | A1win | it's on my would be nice list :P |
| 23:29.25 | A1win | will either add it after release or before it, depending on how long I'm stuck with the name 8x |
| 23:29.34 | Dustin | good :D |
| 23:30.15 | A1win | also moons to rotate some planets :> |
| 23:30.20 | A1win | and some rarer bigger planets |
| 23:30.27 | Dustin | oh I like it |
| 23:30.45 | A1win | make the environment more interesting |
| 23:31.12 | A1win | maybe gas giants that you can sink into and take damage :o |
| 23:31.19 | A1win | though that's a bit too much like black holes |
| 23:31.26 | A1win | just lesser effect |
