| 00:00.08 | Bounty | Way to my information going on so i'm simplifying it and I want to use beams |
| 00:00.45 | Bounty | How difficult are beams to do? Like if I want to create a beam that starts at point A (Lets say, center of region) and ends at Point B (position of mouse) |
| 00:01.45 | Zolden | very easy |
| 00:02.00 | Zolden | just create 2 sites, use them as beam's sites |
| 00:02.28 | Zolden | just find a way to use the one at mouse cursor to be locally (fast) updated |
| 00:02.46 | Zolden | i'll neeed it in the next map |
| 00:02.56 | Zolden | but i'll try to do it with data |
| 00:07.59 | Bounty | How do you create sites? |
| 00:08.05 | Bounty | lol |
| 00:17.04 | Zolden | check related gax function |
| 00:22.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jum-Jum (uid10330@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqktlmoebqltkyzp) |
| 00:28.14 | Otixa | liar |
| 00:58.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Otixa (Otixa@trill-laptop.Varna.Net) |
| 01:07.39 | Triceron | stabs Otixa |
| 01:07.49 | Otixa | WOT YU WONT |
| 01:07.59 | Otixa | burps in Triceron's ear |
| 01:08.22 | Triceron | Da red wuns go fastah! |
| 01:09.27 | Otixa | aye |
| 01:09.35 | Otixa | hey |
| 01:09.40 | Otixa | you do motion graphics |
| 01:09.45 | Otixa | help me finish the intro thing ;p |
| 01:09.47 | Triceron | nope |
| 01:09.52 | Otixa | sdkjgkdagkjsbnkgjsdh >=[[[ |
| 01:11.25 | Otixa | Then what demo reel? >;[ |
| 01:13.02 | Otixa | slaps Triceron around a bit with a large trout |
| 01:13.21 | Triceron | Why do you think it's taking me so long?! |
| 01:14.23 | Otixa | But a demo reel of what ffs? |
| 01:15.15 | Triceron | models? |
| 01:15.20 | Triceron | derp |
| 01:15.38 | Otixa | Just do like normal people and make a bunch of stills >;/ |
| 01:15.44 | Otixa | Noone does a fucking reel for models |
| 01:15.50 | Otixa | hits Triceron |
| 01:17.48 | ArcanePariah | slaps everyone, puts everyone on time out |
| 01:18.10 | Otixa | punches ArcanePariah and steals his scotch |
| 01:18.25 | ArcanePariah | shoots the scotch |
| 01:19.01 | Triceron | I do, but some places don't accept gallery work |
| 01:19.27 | Otixa | Eh wot. |
| 01:19.36 | Triceron | they want reels |
| 01:19.48 | Otixa | Then they're retarded >;/ |
| 01:19.54 | Triceron | they're usually called Human Resources |
| 01:20.03 | Otixa | My point ;p |
| 01:20.11 | Otixa | Well |
| 01:20.24 | Otixa | You using AfterEffects, right? |
| 01:24.56 | Triceron | Nuke |
| 01:25.21 | Triceron | trying to learn it |
| 01:25.29 | Otixa | Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 01:25.46 | Otixa | Get aftereffects with Element 3D plugin |
| 01:25.50 | Otixa | You'll be done by tomorrow |
| 01:25.54 | Otixa | Cheerio |
| 01:33.36 | Triceron | pip pip! |
| 01:47.38 | Otixa | hey Triceron |
| 01:47.53 | Otixa | can you give me some SC2 mesh as OBJ to use in the intro? |
| 01:48.12 | Otixa | bonus brownie points for more than 1 |
| 01:48.34 | Triceron | like an sc2 unit? |
| 01:48.43 | Otixa | yeah |
| 01:49.01 | Triceron | don't you have startools? |
| 01:49.04 | Otixa | something with a larger polycount would be better |
| 01:49.10 | Otixa | not installed |
| 01:49.16 | Otixa | neither is an ade old version of max |
| 01:49.23 | Otixa | age* |
| 01:50.22 | Triceron | what about the viking from the armory |
| 01:50.30 | Otixa | perfect :> |
| 01:50.46 | Triceron | okay, go ask Zolden |
| 01:50.51 | Otixa | He's a sleep |
| 01:50.58 | Otixa | I can't spell today ;/ |
| 01:50.59 | Triceron | wake him up |
| 01:51.09 | Otixa | Don't be a dick >:[ |
| 01:51.52 | Triceron | too late |
| 03:10.44 | *** part/#sc2mapster Triceron (~Triceron@S0106000c41aae21d.vc.shawcable.net) |
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| 04:03.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster ElectricPrism1 (~Loren@c-50-174-39-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.02 | grim001 | I just coded for about 12 hours straight... I think it's time to take a break. |
| 04:42.22 | Otixa | wrong |
| 04:42.29 | Otixa | go code some more ;p |
| 04:53.10 | Bommes | ... to take a break... for 5 minutes. |
| 05:56.20 | Otixa | smacks Bommes |
| 05:56.28 | Otixa | rendering is slow >:C |
| 06:09.31 | ArcanePariah | THen get a better gpu |
| 06:09.41 | ArcanePariah | Or rent time on Amazon |
| 06:14.56 | Otixa | GPU has nothing to do with it |
| 06:15.05 | Otixa | Most of it is rendered on CPU ;/ |
| 06:18.06 | ArcanePariah | In which case, my answer still stands, get a better CPU, or rent time on Amazon |
| 06:21.27 | ArcanePariah | You can get a 32 cpu instance for 66 cents an hour |
| 06:22.21 | Otixa | neh |
| 06:22.37 | Otixa | it's slow on i7 extreme 4th gen |
| 06:22.41 | Otixa | it'll be slow on anything |
| 06:22.59 | ArcanePariah | Well... if it is properly written, it should take any number of cores |
| 06:23.05 | ArcanePariah | So throw 32 at it |
| 06:23.15 | Otixa | shrugs |
| 06:23.20 | Otixa | Nearly done anyway |
| 06:23.26 | ArcanePariah | What program is it anyhow? |
| 06:23.28 | Otixa | Only a few scenes left |
| 06:23.30 | Otixa | aftereffects |
| 06:23.37 | Otixa | finishing up the intro thing |
| 06:23.48 | Otixa | just about done with zolden's title ;p |
| 06:24.52 | Otixa | rendering a preview now :B |
| 06:26.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster kingTD (~Administr@78-60-26-40.static.zebra.lt) |
| 06:26.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-202.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 06:28.02 | ArcanePariah | Well if you are ever interested, heres a tutorial on how to use EC2 with 3ds max or maya: http://www.judpratt.com/tutorials/ec2-renderfarm/ |
| 06:28.13 | ArcanePariah | For cheap on demand renderfarm |
| 06:29.12 | ArcanePariah | And that's 32 cores per instance per hour, in theory, for like 50 bucks, you could rig up a massive farm from a few dozen instances |
| 06:29.47 | Otixa | Eh, thanks |
| 06:29.50 | ArcanePariah | Wouldn't be half bad, pay 20 bucks, have 300+ cores for 2 hours, render stuff like mad |
| 06:30.00 | Otixa | But I have my own homebrew render farm for max ;p |
| 06:30.09 | Otixa | AE doesn't have such features tho ;/ |
| 06:30.13 | ArcanePariah | Fair enough :D |
| 06:30.17 | ArcanePariah | OH, that sucks :/ |
| 06:30.40 | Otixa | weee shiny |
| 06:30.49 | Otixa | gonna do a full draft render and upload :> |
| 06:30.50 | ArcanePariah | I'm surprise adobe doesn't have something for after effects, I thought they had that for Photoshop and Premier |
| 06:30.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.82.7.75.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 06:31.07 | Otixa | nope |
| 06:31.12 | Otixa | Just for Premier afaik |
| 06:31.17 | ArcanePariah | Bleh |
| 06:31.24 | ArcanePariah | Adobe fail |
| 06:31.46 | Otixa | They failed the moment they announced CC ;p |
| 06:32.03 | ArcanePariah | THe online only version? Yeah.... |
| 06:32.25 | ArcanePariah | Like... that makes sort of sense for a large scale shop, like Blizzard, but for anyone else, its a pain in the ass |
| 06:32.32 | Otixa | cough up 50 bux a month to use their crap |
| 06:32.39 | Otixa | sounds awesome |
| 06:33.59 | ArcanePariah | Already been burned by it myslef personally, I help my dad (HS Teacher, does computer art/graphics tech, so photoshop and co.), set up his lab, and the last go around, we had to ask for the login to authenticate the software. Problem was, its the login for the entire school district sine they bought a educational bulk license... we were able to use it, but they changed the password right after |
| 06:34.13 | ArcanePariah | So.. not cool |
| 06:35.40 | Otixa | lol |
| 06:35.47 | Otixa | yeah, fuck adobe |
| 06:35.58 | Otixa | hopefully they'll give up on that shit |
| 06:36.07 | Otixa | Well, they did it to prevent piracy |
| 06:36.20 | Otixa | But I managed to get my hands on Premier CC so eh... << |
| 06:36.40 | Otixa | Obviously not working out as planned ;p |
| 06:36.48 | ArcanePariah | Yeah.... which I find massively ironic since both Adobe and Microsoft ENCOURAGED piracy in order to gain dominant mindshare and thus marketshare |
| 06:36.54 | ArcanePariah | back in the day |
| 06:37.05 | Otixa | Also |
| 06:37.06 | Otixa | http://youtu.be/2gzrKAufEWI |
| 06:37.08 | Otixa | TADA |
| 06:37.23 | ArcanePariah | I think Bill Gates explicity said: "IF they are going to pirate, better they pirate our stuff" |
| 06:37.57 | ArcanePariah | LOL @ Twodie :P |
| 06:38.13 | ArcanePariah | But awesome work |
| 06:38.14 | Otixa | Not sure if he's in or not ;P |
| 06:38.18 | Otixa | Thanks :> |
| 06:38.24 | ArcanePariah | How long did that take to render? |
| 06:39.05 | Otixa | About 40sec :P |
| 06:39.14 | Otixa | But I had it all cached or in RAM |
| 06:39.19 | ArcanePariah | Ofc |
| 06:39.19 | Otixa | Otherwise... About 2 hours |
| 06:39.32 | ArcanePariah | ... wow... harddrives are really that slow.... |
| 06:39.48 | Otixa | I have 3 SSDs in RAID0 :P |
| 06:39.54 | ArcanePariah | I assume you have a beastly machine, with 24 or 32 gigs ram? |
| 06:39.59 | Otixa | 32 yeah |
| 06:40.16 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I thought about raid 0, but decided the raw speed of SSD was enough |
| 06:40.29 | Otixa | It does make a difference |
| 06:40.32 | ArcanePariah | Frankly at this point, I would prefer the programs get better |
| 06:40.37 | Otixa | Especially when working with huge ass files |
| 06:40.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 06:40.54 | Otixa | Pretty much a must have for HD video stuff |
| 06:40.58 | ArcanePariah | True, but I'm not there yet. Like the SC2 editor... wish it was more multicore |
| 06:41.09 | ArcanePariah | Right now its single threaded and it shows |
| 06:41.19 | ArcanePariah | or single processor |
| 06:41.56 | ArcanePariah | I wish like... i dunno, like more efficient or constant parsing or caching of xml parsing to make the UI more responsive |
| 06:43.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-123-175-188.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:44.06 | Otixa | Well, use a better engine then :P |
| 06:44.35 | ArcanePariah | I would not be suprised if Blizzard has made some decent improvements to the engine for Heroes |
| 06:44.48 | ArcanePariah | Just going to see how patch 2.1 goes |
| 06:44.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (45f8f26f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.242.111) |
| 06:45.01 | Bounty | Pew |
| 06:45.06 | ArcanePariah | QQ |
| 06:45.07 | ArcanePariah | :P |
| 06:45.12 | Bounty | :) |
| 06:45.33 | Bounty | Happy to see another person awake during these hours |
| 06:45.49 | ArcanePariah | Ofc |
| 06:45.51 | ArcanePariah | Any questions? |
| 06:45.55 | ArcanePariah | I'm bored atm |
| 06:45.57 | Bounty | nope |
| 06:45.57 | kingTD | Otixa what you would expect me doing there? role? |
| 06:46.13 | ArcanePariah | TwoDie, look pretty :P |
| 06:46.36 | Bounty | Any questions I may want to ask when I come in here have nothing to do with the editor, most of the time at least |
| 06:46.41 | Otixa | Talking about important shit obviously |
| 06:46.47 | kingTD | idk idk, zolden discourages to be even pretty :/ |
| 06:47.11 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: Fair enough, but I'm open to ANY questions, be it sc2, coding, philosophy, history, mathematics |
| 06:47.19 | Otixa | kingTD, need people to ask stupid questions ;p |
| 06:47.19 | Bounty | o0o |
| 06:47.22 | Otixa | you in? |
| 06:47.29 | Bounty | I like that answer |
| 06:47.32 | Bounty | My question is |
| 06:47.43 | Bounty | Why do I feel so strongly for communism? |
| 06:47.54 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, good question |
| 06:48.01 | kingTD | heh |
| 06:48.07 | Bounty | When I say that, I am referring to true communism |
| 06:48.10 | ArcanePariah | Lets first reference Maslows Hierarchy of needs |
| 06:48.17 | ArcanePariah | Are you familiar with it? |
| 06:48.21 | Bounty | I do NOT believe in the transition, make sense? |
| 06:48.25 | Otixa | what is this i dont even |
| 06:48.51 | Bounty | I am not familiar with them Arcane, but I would love to hear what you're referring to. |
| 06:49.29 | ArcanePariah | It is a psychology tenet, that people will prioritize certain actions over others based on need. For instance, you would not be here chatting if you were in need of food |
| 06:49.32 | Bounty | What is this Oxita? This is Bounty attempting to figure out WTF is wrong with him over the internet bro lol |
| 06:49.46 | Otixa | too much ;p |
| 06:49.55 | Bounty | I have an interesting response to that Arcane |
| 06:49.55 | Otixa | Bounty, you doing 3D shit right? |
| 06:49.56 | ArcanePariah | More basic survival needs will be fufilled before more abstract, less pressing needs |
| 06:50.16 | Otixa | Also, I have a more interesting question for you guys |
| 06:50.29 | ArcanePariah | People rarely wonder about ideas such as democracy, republics, and free will, when they are starving or dying from dehydration |
| 06:50.31 | Otixa | I drank a whole package of apple juice and haven't peed in 5 hours |
| 06:50.34 | Otixa | How does that work? |
| 06:50.34 | Bounty | The more successful I get in life, when we define successful by what your income is at least, I seem to lean more towards communism. |
| 06:51.03 | Bounty | I just always seem to feel like something is wrong lol |
| 06:51.16 | ArcanePariah | Well, my take on Maslows Hierarchy is that lower aspects of it induce competion (See wars over resources) |
| 06:51.23 | Bounty | Also, I know this is one of those LOL dis guy is talking about real shit on the internet moments |
| 06:51.43 | Bounty | but to me, this is my favorite community |
| 06:51.43 | ArcanePariah | However, higher levels induce COOPERATION, since they can not be brought about by competition |
| 06:51.52 | Otixa | punches kingTD |
| 06:51.59 | Otixa | You in or what? ;p |
| 06:52.11 | Bounty | I think about things beyond myself Arcane |
| 06:52.12 | Bounty | Like |
| 06:52.13 | kingTD | playing dota |
| 06:52.17 | Bounty | I always look for the greater good |
| 06:52.28 | ArcanePariah | If we savagely competed, we would not have the nationstates and corperations of today, which are both entites that strive to provide large scale service by large scale cooperation |
| 06:52.36 | Bounty | I tend to think of things as most Astrophysicists look at thing for some reason |
| 06:52.52 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 06:53.02 | Bounty | I asked that question to the wife tonight |
| 06:53.07 | Bounty | Why do we even have countries? |
| 06:53.21 | Bounty | We know enough about the universe to understand we should unify |
| 06:53.24 | Bounty | I don't get it |
| 06:53.31 | ArcanePariah | Well in todays day and age, for us at least, we have most of our lower needs structurally (by society/governement/corporations) fufilled, so we tend to focus on more higher order needs, which leads to larger cooperation |
| 06:53.33 | Otixa | They do seem kinda redundant yeah |
| 06:53.37 | Bounty | I'm not even some teenager in HS |
| 06:53.39 | Bounty | I'm 28 years old |
| 06:53.50 | Bounty | I can't figure it out even at this age and it just gets stronger as I age |
| 06:54.07 | Otixa | ohshi, someone older than me on the internets |
| 06:54.21 | Otixa | punches Bounty |
| 06:54.26 | Bounty | Like.. |
| 06:54.30 | Bounty | If we were like ants |
| 06:54.40 | Bounty | Imagine the possibilities |
| 06:54.42 | ArcanePariah | The reason we have not unified is because for a large section of our species, these lower needs are NOT fulfilled, and thus competition continues unabated |
| 06:54.57 | Bounty | Thats where I disagree Arcane |
| 06:54.57 | ArcanePariah | Also, there is something to be said for balance |
| 06:55.04 | Otixa | Eh |
| 06:55.04 | Bounty | I don't mean to sound like a typical commie |
| 06:55.06 | Bounty | but |
| 06:55.08 | Bounty | IMO |
| 06:55.18 | Bounty | I think we are like this because of capitalism |
| 06:55.18 | Otixa | I'm fairly sucessful and still competitive as fuck |
| 06:55.20 | Otixa | shrugs |
| 06:55.36 | Bounty | What do you expect to happen when we promote a society based on greed and selfishness |
| 06:55.45 | Bounty | in terms of the later generations |
| 06:55.56 | Bounty | Capitalism is awesome in its early years |
| 06:56.06 | Bounty | but it degrades over time |
| 06:56.12 | Bounty | Here is my theory |
| 06:56.17 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: Your perception is probably biased because you are living (probably) in a first world country and have been on the receiving end of some of the worst excesses of competition (civilized at least, no killling) in decades |
| 06:56.32 | ArcanePariah | So yes, the competitve side has been taken to an extreme |
| 06:56.39 | Bounty | How can you expect your species to evolve when you promote a society system based on a flaw within that species |
| 06:56.42 | ArcanePariah | and thus you want to swing back to a more balacned approach |
| 06:57.03 | Bounty | That is true Arcane |
| 06:57.07 | Bounty | I do live in America |
| 06:57.26 | ArcanePariah | Both competition and cooperation can produce amazing things |
| 06:57.33 | Bounty | But at the same time, in the worst case scenario I know for a fact no one should live beneath these standards |
| 06:57.38 | ArcanePariah | However, to achieve those, you do have to give up something |
| 06:58.13 | ArcanePariah | For instance, Bell labs invented some amazing stuff (UNIX, C language, transistor), however Bell labs was financed at the behest of a monopoly, and somewaht abusive on at that |
| 06:58.28 | Bounty | Why do we even have a currency though? |
| 06:58.40 | ArcanePariah | Because it serves as an abstraction |
| 06:58.43 | kingTD | Otixa I will come to see whats how and things going at least. how long and my how much stupid question will ask it depends |
| 06:58.57 | Bounty | Does any other species known to us require a currency to motivate them to do thing in order to benefit their species? |
| 06:59.07 | Bounty | I propose |
| 06:59.09 | ArcanePariah | IF you have butter, and I have cows, but you don't need cows, and I need butter, how do we trade? |
| 06:59.17 | Otixa | kingTD, I need more than that if you want your name in the shiny intro ;P |
| 06:59.25 | ArcanePariah | Without currency, we would need a 3rd party |
| 06:59.26 | Bounty | That maybe in terms of our motivation, we are much more evolved than other species than we think we are |
| 06:59.44 | Bounty | I have never watched Star Trek |
| 06:59.45 | Bounty | BUT |
| 06:59.51 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, you should :P |
| 06:59.53 | Bounty | There was an episode that i resonate with |
| 07:00.00 | ArcanePariah | Which one was that? |
| 07:00.01 | Bounty | In that they discovered capsules from the past |
| 07:00.15 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqW0YaN2ho |
| 07:00.17 | Bounty | This says it all |
| 07:00.29 | Bounty | This is what I believe in |
| 07:00.36 | Bounty | in terms of its message |
| 07:01.31 | Bounty | Especially with 00:57 and on ward |
| 07:02.08 | ArcanePariah | Yes, and actualyl we have the technology to do jsut that, however, the entire Star Trek utopia is based on one assumption, one we are challenged with today: Nearly unlimited energy |
| 07:02.13 | kingTD | then i dont need your shinny name intro :( |
| 07:02.24 | ArcanePariah | In the Star Trek series, they have learned to harness antimatter reactions |
| 07:02.43 | ArcanePariah | Which is the most efficient energy production known to us |
| 07:02.59 | Bounty | Magnetism is the key to unlimited energy |
| 07:03.06 | Bounty | Very simple |
| 07:04.02 | ArcanePariah | Well yeah... all powerplants work the exact same way today, all of them in some form or another, heat water to steam to drive a turbine which drive a dyanmo to induce electricity |
| 07:04.18 | ArcanePariah | Only difference is the efficiency of the fuel source |
| 07:04.34 | Bounty | You use magnetism as the resource |
| 07:04.36 | Bounty | What you do is |
| 07:05.03 | Bounty | You build a magnetic accelerator 1/4 of a circle |
| 07:05.32 | ArcanePariah | Ok so a particle accelerator (or at least roughly the same thing) |
| 07:05.35 | Bounty | And you have the inner rotating gear consist of about 8 or so magnets |
| 07:05.50 | Bounty | Have you ever seen a video of a magnet accelerator? |
| 07:06.07 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTbFfEEE_qU |
| 07:06.08 | ArcanePariah | A rail launcher? Nope, but I understand the physics behind it |
| 07:06.09 | Bounty | like that |
| 07:06.11 | Bounty | yeah |
| 07:06.15 | Bounty | The issue is |
| 07:06.18 | Bounty | for some reason |
| 07:06.26 | Bounty | People just say "Build it into a circle!" |
| 07:06.40 | Bounty | First of all, even if that would work the amount of work required is insane |
| 07:06.45 | Bounty | What you do is, you curve it |
| 07:06.58 | Bounty | and have a wheel with those magnets that go through it in a circle |
| 07:07.12 | Bounty | So that the first one to go through it, is always push the next one into it |
| 07:07.16 | Bounty | so it creates a loop |
| 07:07.22 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 07:07.42 | ArcanePariah | Yeah but you still have to cool that to make it work well, otherwise the resisitive losses will kill it |
| 07:07.49 | ArcanePariah | Which gets expensive fast |
| 07:08.02 | ArcanePariah | Since for that kind of project you need LN2 or Helium |
| 07:08.23 | ArcanePariah | Both of which are expensive |
| 07:08.29 | Bounty | How much heat do magnetic fields generate compared to what we use now though? |
| 07:09.06 | ArcanePariah | Well... you are talking about pushing magnets around, so they have to heat the water somehow |
| 07:09.19 | ArcanePariah | But heating them change their magnetic field already |
| 07:09.20 | Bounty | water? there is no water |
| 07:09.27 | ArcanePariah | ... then how do you get electricity? |
| 07:09.53 | Bounty | last time I checked |
| 07:10.02 | Bounty | whenever you pass a magnetic field through a copper wire |
| 07:10.11 | Bounty | it generate electricity |
| 07:10.16 | ArcanePariah | Yes, and thats how modern reactors already work |
| 07:10.27 | Bounty | exactly |
| 07:10.33 | Bounty | the problem is |
| 07:10.34 | Bounty | fuel |
| 07:10.37 | ArcanePariah | the turbine spins which osscialtes a altenator back and forth, inducing the electric current |
| 07:10.43 | Bounty | yeah |
| 07:10.48 | Bounty | but again, the problem is fuel |
| 07:10.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 07:10.54 | Bounty | so, we eliminate fuel |
| 07:10.59 | Bounty | but |
| 07:11.04 | Bounty | that is impossible because of capitalism |
| 07:11.11 | ArcanePariah | Ok so how do create the mechanical energy to drive the alternator? |
| 07:11.45 | Bounty | Honestly, I have to confess ignorance on that because I have only gone far enough as to get something to rotate on its own |
| 07:12.43 | G0A | Bounty you think of Searl Effect Generator, because that will never work commercially as any magnetic related stuff... |
| 07:13.00 | Bounty | Never heard of that honestly |
| 07:13.05 | Bounty | but it uses my method? |
| 07:13.34 | ArcanePariah | Because the modern process works as follows: Convert chemical energy into heat energy, which causes a phases change, that phase change leads to higher kinetic energy of the driving material (water in most cases since it can store a ton of energy), which gets converted into mechanical energy, which is used to induces a magnetic field change to induce electricity |
| 07:13.55 | Bounty | I know |
| 07:14.00 | Bounty | But what i'm talking about is |
| 07:14.03 | G0A | Bounty you didnt say anything about your method other than its magnetic related... |
| 07:14.05 | ArcanePariah | So which step are you trying to remove |
| 07:14.12 | Bounty | First of all I am not suggesting perpetual motion |
| 07:14.15 | Bounty | I am suggesting |
| 07:14.32 | ArcanePariah | Chemical -> Kinetic -> Mechanical -> Electrical (which one to remove?) |
| 07:14.33 | Bounty | a device in which you could get enough energy to run itself and then produce excess |
| 07:14.45 | Bounty | I suggest those G0A |
| 07:14.47 | ArcanePariah | In that case, you need to do nuclear |
| 07:14.55 | ArcanePariah | only nuclear can pull that off |
| 07:15.00 | Bounty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTbFfEEE_qU |
| 07:15.02 | Bounty | That method |
| 07:15.03 | Bounty | BUT |
| 07:15.06 | Bounty | you curve it |
| 07:15.12 | G0A | yeah Bounty I heard many of those... I yet to see a verified proof... |
| 07:15.14 | Bounty | and you take those magnets he puts into it |
| 07:15.22 | Bounty | and create 8 of them in a wheel |
| 07:15.29 | Bounty | curved to fit |
| 07:15.48 | Bounty | so that the thrust of the initial set is enough to thrust the previous |
| 07:15.55 | Bounty | look at that thrust |
| 07:16.02 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: those are very inefficient, the only way to keep them going without major resistive losses would require the rails to be cooled and be kept cool so their magnetic fields would stay intact |
| 07:16.04 | Bounty | the problem is, people are fully looping that method |
| 07:16.07 | G0A | you know that magnetic field wont last forever |
| 07:16.18 | Bounty | It will last beyond our lifetime |
| 07:16.25 | Bounty | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:16.29 | Bounty | Its not perpetual motion |
| 07:16.31 | ArcanePariah | In which case, you have to spend a fortune on Ln2 or helium to cool them |
| 07:16.32 | Bounty | because it WILL stop |
| 07:16.44 | Bounty | OR |
| 07:16.44 | G0A | and thats why I say its commercial useless |
| 07:16.51 | Bounty | alternatively |
| 07:16.55 | Bounty | you could use a gravity will |
| 07:17.04 | Bounty | and combine it with a magnetic pull |
| 07:17.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies_ (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 07:17.27 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... a gravity well would work, the only problem being, a gravity well large enough to do the job would also destroy this star system or at least the planet |
| 07:17.35 | Bounty | so that the pull of the magnets when the wheel reaches its dead zone it just enough to pull it but not enough to contain the weight offset of the wheel |
| 07:17.57 | ArcanePariah | Because to do that on a local scale would require a mini black hole |
| 07:18.07 | ArcanePariah | local = on this planet |
| 07:18.18 | Bounty | Yeah but does my proposal make sense? |
| 07:18.37 | ArcanePariah | With a blackhole/gravity thing? Yeah, but good luck creating a black hole or controlling one :P |
| 07:18.39 | Bounty | Can a magnetic field produce a slight pull but still be unable to contain weight |
| 07:18.53 | Bounty | So that it falls |
| 07:19.07 | Bounty | in the deadzone that all gravity wheels have, in that its the area they stop |
| 07:19.14 | G0A | Bounty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxMHgsmlEfs |
| 07:19.20 | ArcanePariah | Well yeah, just make it so the magnetic force doesn't counteract all other forces |
| 07:19.35 | ArcanePariah | O dear, we chased duckies off |
| 07:19.45 | Bounty | I've seen that G0A |
| 07:19.54 | ArcanePariah | or not, we chased his main persona off |
| 07:20.23 | Bounty | Again. I am no engineer or anything I am just posing the questions lol |
| 07:20.29 | Bounty | I have no idea how that machine you linked works |
| 07:20.30 | ArcanePariah | Yeah... that works, because that is using super counductors... which is fine because the block that thing is on is a tank of LN2 |
| 07:20.32 | G0A | He just left to quack with his friend |
| 07:20.55 | Bounty | Here's the ultimate question |
| 07:21.04 | ArcanePariah | Its sitting on a tank of either helium or LN2, which can cool to the point of super conductivity (no resistive losses) |
| 07:21.21 | G0A | Bounty you should just get the notion that there is no such thing as free energy... |
| 07:21.27 | Bounty | Do you really think, if someone created a better way to generate electricity than oil... that our current economic system would allow it. |
| 07:21.41 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: Oil for one is NOT used for energy production very much |
| 07:21.49 | ArcanePariah | At least not at grid levels |
| 07:21.51 | Bounty | I believe in 100% efficiency G0A |
| 07:22.01 | G0A | 100%? |
| 07:22.01 | Bounty | not 101% (which is free energy) |
| 07:22.08 | Bounty | yeah |
| 07:22.11 | G0A | you started to being steewof |
| 07:22.15 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: 100% is not possible with any process |
| 07:22.16 | Bounty | oil is what? 30%? |
| 07:22.22 | Bounty | Space |
| 07:22.32 | Bounty | eliminate friction |
| 07:22.32 | ArcanePariah | The only process they can produce 100% efficency is antimatter annhilations |
| 07:22.36 | ArcanePariah | Space has friction |
| 07:22.41 | ArcanePariah | it also has cosmic rayts |
| 07:22.44 | ArcanePariah | and other radiation |
| 07:22.47 | ArcanePariah | not to mention gravity |
| 07:22.58 | G0A | yeah |
| 07:23.12 | Bounty | Cosmic rays and radiation cannot be converted into energy? |
| 07:23.18 | ArcanePariah | Not usable |
| 07:23.23 | ArcanePariah | At this time |
| 07:23.24 | Bounty | How do we know? |
| 07:23.27 | Bounty | exactly |
| 07:23.34 | Bounty | Thats all i'm saying lol |
| 07:23.45 | ArcanePariah | Their wavelengths are such that they penetrate most matter, and can not be absorbed or blocked |
| 07:23.55 | ArcanePariah | hence why gamma radiation is so deadly |
| 07:24.09 | Bounty | I mean, I also believe aliens have visited or are visiting our planet so... |
| 07:24.23 | Bounty | I do have a theory behind it but still |
| 07:24.27 | Bounty | Just thought I would throw that out there |
| 07:24.44 | G0A | Heisenberg principle should ultimately destroy any free energy notion... |
| 07:24.50 | ArcanePariah | Possibly, but we don't have a frame of reference to make any conclusions |
| 07:24.59 | Bounty | I do |
| 07:25.03 | Bounty | Very simple |
| 07:25.07 | Bounty | I propose this question |
| 07:25.12 | ArcanePariah | G0A: True, but that assumes our universe is the only one |
| 07:25.35 | ArcanePariah | If you assume for the moment, there are alterante realitys/universes, one could draw energy from them to our own |
| 07:25.37 | Bounty | Dinosaurs were as far as we know the first failed genetic mutation of this planet, correct? |
| 07:25.43 | ArcanePariah | Nope |
| 07:25.50 | Bounty | Large scale |
| 07:25.54 | ArcanePariah | Well.. failed? |
| 07:25.59 | ArcanePariah | I guess |
| 07:26.04 | Bounty | they were wiped out lol |
| 07:26.18 | Bounty | if they had a means of deflecting the asteroid... |
| 07:26.18 | ArcanePariah | We still can't conclusively point to why they died out, evidence sugguests large scale environmental change |
| 07:26.19 | Bounty | etc |
| 07:26.20 | Bounty | you get it |
| 07:26.24 | Bounty | even so |
| 07:26.25 | G0A | ArcanePariah not really, if we assume that we cant contact or detect other universes. |
| 07:26.33 | ArcanePariah | G0A: True |
| 07:26.37 | Bounty | I'll grant the scenario that they were not the first |
| 07:26.45 | Bounty | but lets take the ride |
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| 07:26.54 | Bounty | 65 million years ago yes? |
| 07:26.55 | Bounty | give or take |
| 07:27.03 | Bounty | So |
| 07:27.26 | Bounty | We know the vastness of the universe to a degree, billions of stars, and billions of galaxies that contain billions of star systems |
| 07:27.32 | Bounty | Call me crazy but... |
| 07:27.37 | G0A | there are billions trillions of failed mutations of this planet |
| 07:27.41 | G0A | on* |
| 07:28.00 | Bounty | I think its fair to say that during that time frame a similar mutation took place elsewhere |
| 07:28.11 | Bounty | That was not as primitive as the dinosaurs |
| 07:28.21 | Bounty | and that has evolved during those 65 million years |
| 07:28.22 | Bounty | basically |
| 07:28.23 | Bounty | take us |
| 07:28.28 | G0A | And I just read this morning "22% of Sun-like Stars have Earth-sized Planets in the Habitable Zone" |
| 07:28.30 | Bounty | and give us 65 million years |
| 07:28.42 | Bounty | SO |
| 07:28.44 | Bounty | that said |
| 07:28.45 | Bounty | to ME |
| 07:28.57 | Bounty | if there are super intelligent beings out there |
| 07:29.08 | Bounty | They are either here (which I believe) or they are not |
| 07:29.10 | Bounty | simple as that |
| 07:29.16 | ArcanePariah | Bounty, you are basically arguing, given the statistics we can infer, even pure random chance would lead to the possiblity of another species in the galaxy as advanced as us |
| 07:29.28 | Bounty | Because to me, if they're that advanced, they have much better means detecting life than we do |
| 07:29.53 | Bounty | I propose based on statistics that there is something MUCH higher than us |
| 07:30.04 | Bounty | and I believe they are here honestly |
| 07:30.10 | Bounty | If they are not, they never will be |
| 07:30.14 | Bounty | No in between |
| 07:30.21 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 07:30.40 | ArcanePariah | However, once again, it comes down to energy. As far as our understanding of physics, reaching the speed of light requires infinite energy, and also by Einsteins equations, would make you be omnipresent (occupy all spacetime at once) and have no mass |
| 07:31.01 | G0A | There is 2 mistake in that, we dont know the probability of evolving single cell life and intelligent life. (At the dinosaur's era big>intelligence) |
| 07:31.47 | ArcanePariah | Star Trek warp drive is based on the principle of reducing your inertial mass, thus allowing an object to use the energy needed for a small objecto get close to the speed of light, but since it is a big object, its kinect energy exceeds speed of light |
| 07:32.04 | ArcanePariah | But that is still pure sci fi handwaving ;p |
| 07:32.09 | G0A | yeah |
| 07:32.32 | Bounty | WE know the probability of most life being wiped out and evolving a new in our own solar system though G0A |
| 07:32.48 | G0A | I think energy and information will never exceed the speed of light, in physics it just makes to much sense that it will never be exceeded. |
| 07:33.06 | Bounty | Here's what bothers me about that G0A |
| 07:33.13 | Bounty | that statement in particular. |
| 07:33.22 | ArcanePariah | G0A: True, but we have already demonstrated that data/energy can be in 2 places at once |
| 07:33.34 | ArcanePariah | Quantum mechainics permits this duality |
| 07:33.38 | Bounty | We claim knowledge about the very subjects we claim ignorance about... |
| 07:33.45 | Bounty | Or is that just me? |
| 07:33.56 | Bounty | How can we put a limit on anything? |
| 07:34.14 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: At this point, we are talking like metaphysics, I think we are all way over our heads here XD |
| 07:34.17 | Bounty | Yet we claim to be so inferior in knowledge VS the universe (or multiverse) |
| 07:34.27 | G0A | ArcanePariah about 90% of scientist say quantum entanglement will never result in a faster than light information.... |
| 07:34.29 | Bounty | Thats what I'm saying Arcane lol |
| 07:34.39 | Bounty | Hence why I never claim to actually know anything |
| 07:34.42 | Bounty | I just pose the questions |
| 07:34.57 | G0A | Bounty how cna you not put limit on things.... |
| 07:35.17 | Bounty | Because everytime we do, we're wrong |
| 07:35.21 | Bounty | 1 Planet |
| 07:35.22 | Bounty | wrong |
| 07:35.23 | Bounty | 1 Sun |
| 07:35.25 | Bounty | Wrong |
| 07:35.33 | G0A | those were quite long time ago |
| 07:35.33 | Bounty | 1 galaxy |
| 07:35.34 | Bounty | wrong |
| 07:35.40 | Bounty | Universe is expanding but slowing down |
| 07:35.42 | Bounty | wrong |
| 07:35.48 | Bounty | maybe its not even expanding at all |
| 07:35.51 | Bounty | how do we know? |
| 07:35.53 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: That is the great thing about humans, and makes us different from any other species, that we can even CONCEIVE of such things |
| 07:36.02 | Bounty | I agree Arcane |
| 07:36.06 | Bounty | I think about that all the time |
| 07:36.14 | Bounty | How can I even pose these questions in my head? |
| 07:36.21 | G0A | those limits never resulted in a such fail proof theoris as the current ones. |
| 07:36.22 | Bounty | It is an amazing thing |
| 07:36.31 | ArcanePariah | If you take a given preception of our existance, and call it a box, the human intellect is capable of imaging an outside to the box and thus redefining the box |
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| 07:37.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bommes (~Bommes@ipkn-70.koenigsnet.rwth-aachen.de) |
| 07:37.14 | G0A | If you dont put limit somewhere then entropy will most like result in a infinite chaos.... |
| 07:37.23 | Bommes | why did I just randomly disconnect :O |
| 07:37.24 | Bommes | who hacked me |
| 07:37.26 | Bommes | go, admit it |
| 07:37.37 | ArcanePariah | I did, you were not particiapting, so now you are XD |
| 07:37.47 | G0A | Bommes dont watch porn! I see your screen! |
| 07:37.51 | ArcanePariah | LOL |
| 07:37.55 | Bommes | I like being watched |
| 07:37.55 | ArcanePariah | Is it good? |
| 07:38.06 | ArcanePariah | You or your screen? |
| 07:38.24 | Bommes | that depends |
| 07:38.30 | Bommes | on my position relative to the screen |
| 07:38.49 | Bounty | That I think i our most large issue |
| 07:38.54 | Bounty | as humans |
| 07:38.54 | Bommes | I call it the theory of relativity |
| 07:39.02 | Bounty | in that we think of everything as having a limit |
| 07:39.12 | Bounty | You need not look far in our society to see it in play |
| 07:39.13 | G0A | getting back the topic, I like the speed of light limit, if there are alien civilization then speed of light is probably the thing saving us from extinction... |
| 07:39.33 | Bounty | I'll pose this question |
| 07:40.13 | Bounty | If there are alien civilizations millions, if not billions of years more advanced than us, don't you agree that they already know of us or they don't exist |
| 07:40.21 | Bounty | To me, there is no in between |
| 07:40.30 | Bommes | Bounty, but these seemingly virtual limitations in our brain is what made life survive for millions of years |
| 07:40.43 | Bommes | because these limitations only go away after many generations of being idiotic |
| 07:40.45 | ArcanePariah | I would have to reject that since you are asking for a negative proff |
| 07:40.47 | ArcanePariah | proof* |
| 07:40.54 | Bommes | society changes so much in this age that it gets pretty absurd how crazy our brain gets |
| 07:41.00 | Bounty | Yeah but we're going in the opposite direction Bommes |
| 07:41.09 | Bommes | mmh no I don't think so |
| 07:41.13 | Bounty | You know, I just recently started participating in this thing called facebook |
| 07:41.18 | Bommes | it's just that the surroundings and possibilities change far too rapidly |
| 07:41.19 | Bounty | and call me crazy |
| 07:41.23 | Bounty | but I see a serious problem |
| 07:41.46 | Bommes | humans are not very good at changing past a certain age |
| 07:41.58 | ArcanePariah | Bommes: Agreed, Homo Sapien hasn't physiologically evolved much, but we cheat by using this thing called 'culture' |
| 07:41.58 | Bommes | it's pretty hopeless trying to change like 40 year olds, or even 16-18 year olds |
| 07:42.00 | Bounty | If you bring up an issue that someone agrees with you in they always say "Well that's the way it is" |
| 07:42.18 | Bounty | As if the universe itself passes the laws congress does |
| 07:42.20 | Bommes | you can only really make change happen in small children because they don't take everything for granted |
| 07:42.31 | Bounty | but they do |
| 07:42.34 | G0A | Bounty if speed of light can be exceeded then it would much easier to destoy life in the universe... Its even quite easy to destroy this planet with our current technology. But speed of light limit gives huge cost and time limit on the thing... |
| 07:42.36 | Bounty | im only 28 |
| 07:42.39 | Bounty | and i see it now |
| 07:42.45 | ArcanePariah | That has to do with our immature brains, neural pathways are not fully formed, so new growth allows faster learning |
| 07:42.54 | Bounty | kids are 12 years old and completely consumed by cell phones |
| 07:43.00 | Bounty | its insane |
| 07:43.10 | ArcanePariah | Bounty, if you want an example how children learn far more quickly and adapt more quickly read/watch Enders Game |
| 07:43.19 | ArcanePariah | (Depresssing as it is) |
| 07:43.35 | ArcanePariah | Or hell, play Halo, it has the same premise |
| 07:43.58 | G0A | ArcanePariah did you watch the movie |
| 07:44.02 | ArcanePariah | No, read the book |
| 07:44.03 | G0A | I hope they dont fucked it up |
| 07:44.03 | Bommes | yeah but I mean the 50-60 year olds I see are also insane for the most part, I don't think todays kids are really any different |
| 07:44.44 | G0A | ArcanePariah you read the sage too? After the 4th book I lost the interest... |
| 07:44.45 | Bommes | the internet is a pretty cool thing though because it connects so many people and polarizes so much that all the cultural change gets really accelerated and extreme |
| 07:44.54 | ArcanePariah | Bommes: We are discovering that "insanity" is self induced. We as a society EXPECTED the elderly to do less and less, so they did, but that meant our bodies/minds were not exercised and thus started to degenerate |
| 07:45.00 | Bommes | so we don't have to wait 50 years to see how society changes :) |
| 07:45.18 | ArcanePariah | Bommes: I heard an intersting idea on why the internet changes things so much |
| 07:45.29 | ArcanePariah | Namely, it redefines the borderlands |
| 07:45.31 | Bounty | ArcanePariah I've heard about that book before, I might actually have to look into it |
| 07:45.48 | Bounty | You're not the first to bring it to my attention |
| 07:45.50 | G0A | more like it redefines the information flow speed. |
| 07:45.57 | ArcanePariah | Historically, for any 2 groups, there was a buffer area, an area of limitited interaction/intersection |
| 07:46.07 | Bounty | but in the essence of what i'm saying |
| 07:46.08 | ArcanePariah | Ports/borders/tradingposts |
| 07:46.15 | Bounty | How can anyone be against TRUE communism |
| 07:46.21 | Bounty | Think about that |
| 07:46.26 | Bounty | Like I said |
| 07:46.31 | G0A | Enders game should be read by everyone and we would be far better of:) |
| 07:46.33 | ArcanePariah | On the internet however, such borderlands are totally redefined and without the prior complications of culture/socidiety |
| 07:46.41 | Bounty | I don't believe in the transition period of communism |
| 07:46.44 | Bounty | But |
| 07:46.57 | Bounty | communism in terms of its ultimate goal... how can you disagree with it? |
| 07:46.59 | Bommes | I think the problem about communism is that it doesn't allow for enough change, and society is just not "ready" for it as stupid as that sounds |
| 07:47.04 | ArcanePariah | Bounty: Most would LOVE true communism, however the underlying assumptions to make it work are, as of yet, unattainable |
| 07:47.13 | Bounty | I agree Bommes |
| 07:47.14 | Bounty | 100% |
| 07:47.18 | Bounty | Like I said |
| 07:47.25 | Bounty | I am against the proposed transition |
| 07:47.26 | G0A | I am against the utopia of communism. It will never work because of human nature. |
| 07:47.38 | Bounty | There is no human nature |
| 07:47.44 | Bounty | I assume you propose greed? |
| 07:47.48 | Bommes | human nature is sitting in trees and fucking your family |
| 07:47.49 | G0A | nope |
| 07:47.49 | Bounty | yes? |
| 07:47.59 | Bommes | I think that agrees pretty well with communism |
| 07:48.02 | Bounty | define human nature than please |
| 07:48.09 | Bounty | lol bommes |
| 07:48.20 | ArcanePariah | G0A: More accurately it will not work due to the existance of sociopaths |
| 07:48.38 | Bounty | Like bommes just said |
| 07:48.44 | Bounty | society is not ready |
| 07:48.48 | Bounty | in its current state |
| 07:48.57 | G0A | the decentralized nature and individually different aims of our personality. |
| 07:49.14 | G0A | ArcanePariah its not just that |
| 07:49.23 | Bounty | Do really believe we got to this point because we competed among ourselves? |
| 07:49.34 | Bounty | Or we competed against nature? |
| 07:49.36 | ArcanePariah | Yes, because we had to |
| 07:49.42 | Bommes | G0A: You say we have different aims, I say every human has pretty much the same aims ultimately |
| 07:49.45 | G0A | Communism is based on the idea that everyone wants the same thing... |
| 07:49.53 | Bounty | Do we not? |
| 07:50.10 | ArcanePariah | Well.. if you go by Maslows Hierarchy of Needs, we DO all want the same things in principle |
| 07:50.16 | G0A | Also there is no room for testing out new ways in Communism.... |
| 07:50.18 | Bounty | heres my theory and i've said this for a long time |
| 07:50.22 | ArcanePariah | All of us WANT food, sheleter, and water |
| 07:50.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 07:50.29 | ArcanePariah | in order to physically contiune living |
| 07:50.31 | Bounty | this is also the theory that lead me to found out I am actually a communist |
| 07:50.34 | Bounty | to ME |
| 07:50.36 | Bounty | I think |
| 07:50.50 | Bounty | If you contribute to society, you should be able to live in said society |
| 07:50.59 | Bommes | sociopaths, egoists etc. are just a product of how fucked up society is, sociopaths don't just "appear" out of nowhere, there is a lot of stuff that is saved in genes and a lot of things that a baby can memorize from observing in their first few years of life |
| 07:51.16 | G0A | ArcanePariah but how much food each of us want and what type of it? |
| 07:51.23 | Bounty | I did not know I was considered a communist until i looked up the meaning |
| 07:51.29 | Bounty | I've been saying this all my life |
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| 07:51.41 | G0A | different bodies need different type of food, for the fuck sake.. |
| 07:51.44 | Bounty | that if you contribute to society, you live in society |
| 07:51.49 | ArcanePariah | G0A: That is indeed the crux of the argument, there is what we absolutely need to survive, a law of the minimum |
| 07:51.55 | proprietarysucks | Hi, what's the "expected energy/life/shields" unit properties? |
| 07:52.07 | ArcanePariah | and then their is what we PERCEIVE we need |
| 07:52.18 | Bounty | listen to what i just said |
| 07:52.20 | ArcanePariah | expected life/shield/energy is the default energy values of the unit |
| 07:52.28 | Bounty | nobody has ever been able to go against what I just said |
| 07:52.32 | ArcanePariah | so the values found for the unit in the data editor |
| 07:52.38 | Bounty | yet everyone disagrees with me when I label it as communist |
| 07:52.45 | ArcanePariah | Without buffs/handicap changes/etc. |
| 07:52.59 | ArcanePariah | At least I believe that i what those fields do |
| 07:53.01 | proprietarysucks | then what would changing that of a unit do? |
| 07:53.09 | proprietarysucks | I mean, the unit is already present |
| 07:53.18 | G0A | Bounty I am quite sure sociopaths has not much to do with genes and there are far less sociopaths than anytime in our history. |
| 07:53.25 | proprietarysucks | I'm not talking about catalog change, but of set unit property |
| 07:53.30 | Bommes | G0A: I said that. |
| 07:53.36 | ArcanePariah | proprietarysucks: Then I'm not sure |
| 07:53.37 | Bounty | I'm talking about what I just brought up |
| 07:53.39 | Bounty | Tell me why |
| 07:53.43 | Bounty | Someone |
| 07:53.50 | Bounty | Who contributes to society |
| 07:53.58 | Bounty | Should not be able to live in that society |
| 07:54.03 | Bounty | On their own |
| 07:54.08 | Bounty | No government assistance |
| 07:54.14 | ArcanePariah | G0A: Actually it is possible to be gene related since empathy is regualted by certain neurochemical processes, lack of certain chemical production can cause issues |
| 07:54.15 | Bounty | Nobody can answer this question |
| 07:54.19 | Bounty | That I've ever met |
| 07:54.20 | proprietarysucks | because 'should' implies that person is somehow owed something by life itself |
| 07:54.27 | proprietarysucks | answered. |
| 07:54.30 | G0A | Bounty and who will decide that? |
| 07:54.41 | Bounty | lol |
| 07:54.47 | Bommes | G0A: And yes, having a tendency to be a sociopath is like 99% genetic and only needs to be activated by events in your life to make you a sociopath |
| 07:54.47 | ArcanePariah | Thats basically the issue with people with ADD, they don't produce enough a certain neruochemical so the neural wiring starts misfiring |
| 07:54.50 | Bounty | hilarious imo |
| 07:55.03 | Bommes | I mean most genes aren't even understood very well and biologists still figured that one out. |
| 07:55.05 | G0A | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:55.12 | Bounty | Take this as an example ok? |
| 07:55.17 | proprietarysucks | good point |
| 07:55.32 | proprietarysucks | I don't live in america but I pay taxes there, do I contribute to society there? |
| 07:55.34 | Bounty | I have never worked in a fast food place but I think those people should be able to provide for their families |
| 07:55.45 | Bounty | They contribute their part |
| 07:55.53 | proprietarysucks | provide for a family from fast food? I don't agree |
| 07:56.05 | Bounty | Why not? |
| 07:56.07 | Bounty | To me |
| 07:56.11 | Bounty | If you want to achieve better |
| 07:56.15 | Bounty | you're going to do it |
| 07:56.21 | proprietarysucks | a family isn't some kind of given right, nor is there any reason that the worst jobs should support a family |
| 07:56.23 | Bounty | we don't need a carrot on a stick to motivate you |
| 07:56.30 | Bounty | the carrot being a higher paying job |
| 07:56.55 | proprietarysucks | A job should pay what it's WORTH |
| 07:57.03 | Bounty | What would you rather have, a surgeon who got his job because he wanted more money or a surgeon who got his job because that's what he wanted to do |
| 07:57.13 | proprietarysucks | I don't care either way |
| 07:57.16 | G0A | Bommes you are saying the opposite of me. And such things can be decided very well with twins even though we know very little about genes. |
| 07:57.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies_ (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 07:57.22 | proprietarysucks | why would their motivation mean anything to me |
| 07:57.42 | Bounty | I guess we will see how this plays out then proprietary |
| 07:57.44 | Bounty | btw |
| 07:57.50 | proprietarysucks | that's like saying, would you rather be hit by a car because the guy was drunk driving or because he fell asleep |
| 07:57.57 | proprietarysucks | who the hell cares why? |
| 07:57.58 | Bounty | I don't have any gripes with anyone who disagrees with me |
| 07:58.03 | Bounty | Just saying for the record |
| 07:58.08 | Bounty | I enjoy these conversations |
| 07:58.23 | Bounty | Just so people don't think I'm saying shit for the sake of disagreeing lol |
| 07:58.24 | proprietarysucks | If a doctor does the same exact job as another, I don't care if he got into the profession on accident or because he was forced to or whatever.. who cares |
| 07:58.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-4dbbd580.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 07:58.41 | Bounty | Do you believe in passion proprietary? |
| 07:58.49 | ArcanePariah | Hehe, welcome Kueken, to the Philsophy channel |
| 07:58.58 | Bounty | haha Kueken |
| 07:58.58 | proprietarysucks | "Believe in?" |
| 07:59.02 | Bommes | G0A: Yes. I could link some stuff here or you google yourself for the link between genes and sociopathy/psychopathy |
| 07:59.02 | Kueken | its that time again, huh? |
| 07:59.02 | Bounty | Yes |
| 07:59.05 | Bounty | Believe in |
| 07:59.10 | proprietarysucks | Are you implying some people don't think passion exists? |
| 07:59.22 | Bounty | obviously |
| 07:59.30 | Bounty | EXAMPLE |
| 07:59.32 | Kueken | depends on the definition of passion |
| 07:59.42 | proprietarysucks | or are you using the definition that means have strong feelings about? |
| 07:59.47 | Bounty | Take the payscale of a police officer VS a a lawyer |
| 07:59.50 | proprietarysucks | because neither are really making sense to me here |
| 07:59.57 | proprietarysucks | yes. |
| 08:00.01 | Bounty | say that police officer truly wants to help people |
| 08:00.08 | Bounty | and that lawyer just wants money |
| 08:00.17 | proprietarysucks | compare that to the scarcity and difficulty of the job |
| 08:00.25 | Bounty | ok? |
| 08:00.28 | proprietarysucks | you'll find a nice correlation |
| 08:00.29 | Bounty | are you kidding me |
| 08:00.36 | Bounty | a police officer risking his life |
| 08:00.39 | Bounty | vs a lawyer |
| 08:00.49 | Bounty | whos entire job is based on arguing |
| 08:00.50 | proprietarysucks | that's not a difficulty or scarcity |
| 08:00.54 | proprietarysucks | that's a risk |
| 08:01.02 | G0A | Bommes I did google twin based research on such things and it was even less pointing about genes than I thought it would be |
| 08:01.07 | proprietarysucks | that's something that YOU feel means more than they do, obviously |
| 08:01.16 | Bounty | so you think lawyers are more valuable than people in the military |
| 08:01.20 | proprietarysucks | the point is, there are way more people who CAN be police than CAN be lawyers |
| 08:01.28 | proprietarysucks | yes, absolutely |
| 08:01.29 | Bounty | I disagree |
| 08:01.40 | proprietarysucks | that's why the army can recruit 17 year olds into the army |
| 08:01.45 | Bounty | If you believe that, go join the military for a day |
| 08:01.48 | proprietarysucks | you can't recruit 17 year old lawyers |
| 08:02.08 | Bounty | you could easily |
| 08:02.12 | proprietarysucks | there are 7 year old soldiers in the world |
| 08:02.26 | Bounty | What is the court of law but two 8 year olds arguing? |
| 08:02.30 | G0A | Bommes for example there is like no link between Myers-Briggs personality in twins even if they grow up in the same family. |
| 08:02.31 | proprietarysucks | just because it's dangerous doesn't mean it's "difficult" |
| 08:02.32 | Bounty | Whoever argues the best wins |
| 08:02.52 | Bounty | So you propose courage does not contribute to difficulty? |
| 08:02.59 | proprietarysucks | You're striking me as someone who has a lot of feelings about the world and how everything should be |
| 08:03.14 | proprietarysucks | I think that's mostly irrelevant and not necessarily fact based |
| 08:03.15 | Bounty | Well, I have to admit, you're right |
| 08:03.20 | Bounty | Can't fault you there bro |
| 08:03.22 | Bommes | G0A: How is Myers-Briggs any indication for sociopathy or psychopathy, or even a scientific method of analyzing personality or behavior? |
| 08:03.25 | proprietarysucks | let me give you an example of what I'm talking about |
| 08:03.35 | proprietarysucks | I understand and agree with your underlying point |
| 08:03.50 | proprietarysucks | I would much rather be a lawyer than a cop, much lelss chance of dying for one |
| 08:03.57 | proprietarysucks | and in a sense a lawyer is just a bullshit job |
| 08:03.58 | Bommes | Myers-Briggs is just a 2nd world war test to determine which (female) workers are best suited to do which work, based on their outward personality traits. |
| 08:04.00 | Bounty | Yeah, I agree lol |
| 08:04.05 | Bounty | Let me guess |
| 08:04.10 | proprietarysucks | and yes, they "should" have it better because of that |
| 08:04.12 | Bounty | "But that's the way it is" right? |
| 08:04.20 | proprietarysucks | no |
| 08:04.38 | proprietarysucks | it's that way for a couple of very valid, real world reasons that are the same everywhere in the world |
| 08:04.51 | proprietarysucks | that you seem to think just because you view them as wrong or unfair, they aren't valid |
| 08:05.12 | Bounty | This is how we got into our cosmic discussion earlier |
| 08:05.14 | proprietarysucks | the point is you can find 100 people in a small town who are able and willing to join up for the military |
| 08:05.28 | proprietarysucks | you can't find 100 people in a small town who are willing and ABLE to be a lawyer |
| 08:05.33 | Bounty | I think I think this way because I go outside and look up and think "Holy shit" |
| 08:05.37 | proprietarysucks | that makes being a lawyer more valuable as a profession |
| 08:05.59 | G0A | Bommes I read stuff like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9529660 , psychopathy its too hard determine or define and rare to be a good base to any such research. (as there arent that many twins for research anyway) |
| 08:06.02 | Bounty | Is there a word for people like me? I tend to think way to far ahead |
| 08:06.13 | proprietarysucks | Liberal? |
| 08:06.15 | proprietarysucks | hahaha |
| 08:06.18 | Bounty | Like, I compare everythign to the universe |
| 08:06.27 | Bounty | the greater good |
| 08:06.29 | proprietarysucks | Young |
| 08:06.31 | proprietarysucks | that's another one |
| 08:06.32 | Bounty | you're the first person to call me that |
| 08:06.48 | Bounty | I'm almost 30, thought this way all my life, the more successful I get the more I believe it |
| 08:06.52 | proprietarysucks | you're right about the underlying points but I think you're comparing what we have to some utopia |
| 08:07.04 | Bounty | I agree |
| 08:07.07 | proprietarysucks | that has never existed, therefore it's not a valid reference point |
| 08:07.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 08:07.11 | Bounty | but to me |
| 08:07.25 | Bounty | utopia has always crumbled because of scarcity. |
| 08:07.32 | Bounty | yes? |
| 08:07.33 | Bommes | G0A: Again, Myers-Briggs is a personality test developed for adults to evaluate how their OUTWARD personality best suits dealing with other people and maybe finding work in a specific field. |
| 08:07.42 | proprietarysucks | there has never been anything even close to utopia |
| 08:07.51 | Bounty | I agree, BUT |
| 08:07.53 | proprietarysucks | the world today is much, much better off than it ever has been |
| 08:07.58 | Bounty | societies have tried |
| 08:08.00 | Bounty | correct? |
| 08:08.02 | proprietarysucks | no |
| 08:08.11 | Bommes | G0A: I don't see the link between Psychopathy/Sociopathy and Myers-Briggs, so that study is pretty meaningless. |
| 08:08.14 | Bounty | russian evolution? |
| 08:08.15 | proprietarysucks | I don't believe so, no |
| 08:08.16 | Bounty | USSR? |
| 08:08.23 | Bounty | That was attempted communism |
| 08:08.27 | proprietarysucks | read some history man |
| 08:08.30 | Bounty | and they failed in the transition |
| 08:08.33 | Bommes | G0A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2V0vOFexY4 |
| 08:08.40 | Bounty | because the transition is impossible in our current state |
| 08:08.45 | Bounty | I've read history lol' |
| 08:08.51 | proprietarysucks | Stalin and utopia aren't exactly similar |
| 08:09.00 | Bounty | Read what I just said bro |
| 08:09.11 | Bounty | Read what communism actually is for the record |
| 08:09.15 | Bounty | the problem is not communism |
| 08:09.18 | G0A | Bommes I hate TED talks, any paper? |
| 08:09.19 | proprietarysucks | you're bringing up a system responsible for millions and millions and millions and millions of deaths, to support a system of restriction |
| 08:09.20 | Bounty | the problem is the proposed transition |
| 08:09.32 | Bounty | No i'm not |
| 08:09.41 | Bounty | Communism has nothing to do with that |
| 08:09.46 | Bounty | Have you read your history? |
| 08:09.47 | Bommes | G0A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2V0vOFexY4 |
| 08:09.48 | proprietarysucks | you didn't say communism |
| 08:09.50 | proprietarysucks | you said USSR |
| 08:09.54 | Bommes | sry http://www.lscp.net/persons/ramus/fr/GDP1/papers/viding05.pdf |
| 08:09.57 | proprietarysucks | that's not the same thing as 'communism' |
| 08:10.03 | proprietarysucks | I live in a communist country |
| 08:10.04 | Bommes | didn't read it though, just the first thing I found on google |
| 08:10.06 | proprietarysucks | do you? |
| 08:10.15 | Bounty | I doubt you live in a communist country |
| 08:10.19 | Bommes | in like 3 seconds. |
| 08:10.19 | Bounty | do you have a government? |
| 08:10.25 | proprietarysucks | You doubt I live in a communist country? |
| 08:10.28 | Bounty | yep |
| 08:10.34 | proprietarysucks | sigh |
| 08:10.35 | Bounty | do you have a government? |
| 08:10.42 | Bounty | or a leader |
| 08:10.54 | Bounty | if you answered yes to either, you do not live in a communist country |
| 08:10.54 | proprietarysucks | There are 5 communist countries in the world |
| 08:10.57 | proprietarysucks | I live in one of them |
| 08:10.59 | Bounty | There are none |
| 08:11.05 | Bounty | Let me guess |
| 08:11.05 | proprietarysucks | there are 5 |
| 08:11.09 | Bounty | you think China is communist |
| 08:11.13 | Bommes | G0A: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/ 2nd result on google |
| 08:11.37 | Bounty | Any "country" that even declares itself a country or to have a government and/or leader is not communist |
| 08:11.44 | G0A | Bommes I think there is small link between Myers-Briggs and Psychopathy, but its more like that it says things about the nature of genetics... |
| 08:11.51 | Bounty | read what communism actually is, not what you're told it is |
| 08:12.13 | proprietarysucks | you mean, ignore what the world thinks communism is and listen to what you say it is? |
| 08:12.26 | Bounty | what? |
| 08:12.46 | Bounty | It is almost as if you did not read anything I said |
| 08:12.50 | Bounty | I said it like 50 times |
| 08:12.50 | Bommes | G0A: Myers-Briggs says things about how human personality develops. It's a very broad and result oriented way to analyze human behavior, I don't think it's worth getting into for such a specific case about psychopathy/sociopathy, since that only affects a small percentage of society |
| 08:13.08 | Bounty | The proposed transition to communism I disagree with |
| 08:13.21 | Bounty | Which is the very state all of these supposed "communist" countries are stuck in |
| 08:13.39 | proprietarysucks | I'm sorry but this conversation immediately proved pointless as you saught to go against facts and reality to declare there's no such thing as a communist country |
| 08:13.44 | proprietarysucks | google it bro |
| 08:13.47 | G0A | Bommes thats Twin-Family Study, I see more raltion to family than to genes... |
| 08:14.00 | Bounty | Name one communist country |
| 08:14.04 | proprietarysucks | China |
| 08:14.08 | Bounty | lol? |
| 08:14.10 | Bounty | really dude |
| 08:14.16 | proprietarysucks | yes, really |
| 08:14.18 | Bounty | Can someone back me up here please |
| 08:14.20 | Bommes | G0A: Read the second one I linked? |
| 08:14.24 | Bounty | China is NOT communist |
| 08:14.30 | Bounty | They have a currency |
| 08:14.37 | G0A | Bommes I am reading that |
| 08:14.52 | proprietarysucks | all communist countries have currencies |
| 08:14.56 | G0A | or the 2nd is on 7 year olds? |
| 08:15.00 | proprietarysucks | all countries have currency, I believe |
| 08:15.04 | Bounty | Thats what i'm saying proprietary |
| 08:15.13 | Bounty | Actual communism has no currency |
| 08:15.21 | Bommes | G0A: no |
| 08:15.22 | proprietarysucks | 'actual communism' does have currency |
| 08:15.24 | Bounty | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism |
| 08:15.33 | Bommes | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/ |
| 08:15.35 | proprietarysucks | I live in an 'actual' communist country that has currency |
| 08:15.50 | proprietarysucks | cool link |
| 08:15.56 | proprietarysucks | you might want to scroll down to the china part |
| 08:16.23 | Bommes | and again, that's only the first 2 results on google that I linked 5 seconds after googling without reading it, and you already decide to go into personal opinion to deny the studies |
| 08:16.35 | G0A | Bommes yeah I am watching that |
| 08:16.46 | Bommes | which is pretty pointless, I'm no expert in the field, I'm just linking what I heard and what seems logical to me |
| 08:16.48 | Bounty | Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal) is a socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless,[1][2] and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production |
| 08:17.23 | Bounty | I can call myself japanese, does not mean I am from Japan |
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| 08:17.29 | Bounty | Thats the definition of the word |
| 08:17.36 | Bounty | from the person who invented it |
| 08:17.43 | Bounty | not sure how you can argue that lolo |
| 08:17.56 | Bounty | China is extremely capitalist |
| 08:18.13 | G0A | Bommes I am not expert too and I am saying that what seems logical too me too. That genes have effect on our behavior but its mainly determined by our environment in which we grow up. |
| 08:18.21 | proprietarysucks | so your argument is that communism doesn't exist because when it was invented the definition doesn't match what it is today |
| 08:18.54 | Bounty | The person who created it proposed a violent transition |
| 08:18.57 | proprietarysucks | and because china doesn't match 'actual communist countries,' of which there are none and never have or will be any |
| 08:19.05 | proprietarysucks | and this seems to be a valid logic to you |
| 08:19.15 | Bounty | In which it included a "temporary" dictatorship |
| 08:19.22 | Bounty | and then it stops there |
| 08:19.30 | Bounty | Which is why I disagree with that |
| 08:19.35 | Bommes | G0A: Genetics don't effect our behavior, genetics determine the way in which our environment shapes the behavior. |
| 08:19.37 | Bounty | Because that is where it always stops |
| 08:19.53 | Bommes | behavior is completely adapted by what is going on in the environment, just the way that happens is based on genetics. |
| 08:19.57 | Bounty | You can't get to a utopia through a dictatorship |
| 08:20.03 | Bounty | I think we can all agree with that |
| 08:20.21 | Bounty | Unless your dictator is some sort of saint lol |
| 08:20.23 | proprietarysucks | you're right! now come to china and walk around telling everyone communism doesn't exist |
| 08:20.39 | Bounty | w/e |
| 08:20.44 | Bommes | so if you have a person with a huge predisposition for becoming a psychopath he will get to that by very minor and seemingly insignificant events in his youth |
| 08:20.45 | Bommes | other people go through tons of shit and still stay sane and social |
| 08:20.48 | Bounty | There is nothing I can say to change your mind lol |
| 08:20.53 | proprietarysucks | you can never get a utopia, period |
| 08:21.07 | Bounty | How do you know that? |
| 08:21.24 | Bounty | Do you really think you can propose that answer to that question? |
| 08:21.45 | Bounty | Based on everything, not just earth but I quite literally mean everything |
| 08:22.28 | Bommes | proprietarysucks: That depends on what you view as a utopia. |
| 08:22.47 | proprietarysucks | I recommend you do some watching of some very interesting videos that are somewhat unrelated but will help you understand where I'm coming from |
| 08:22.58 | proprietarysucks | some richard dawkins videos and sam harris videos |
| 08:23.19 | proprietarysucks | You keep referring to things which have never existed, and we have no evidence to suspect they ever will |
| 08:23.36 | proprietarysucks | This is a similar mindset to faith-based logic, I feel |
| 08:23.44 | proprietarysucks | why WOULD there ever be a utopia? |
| 08:24.06 | Bounty | I have no evidence, that is true |
| 08:24.07 | proprietarysucks | what ever has led you to the idea that there ever could or would or should be one? There's just no evidence that it is possible or probable |
| 08:24.31 | Bounty | but it is perfectly logical to believe that somewhere in the universe or multiverse a utopia exists |
| 08:24.33 | G0A | Bommes yeah there might be such extreme genetic traits, but I would say that most of the psychopath arent based on genetic traits... |
| 08:24.37 | proprietarysucks | If someone enjoys stealing, why would they not steal from you in utopia? That's what they want to do after all |
| 08:24.44 | Bounty | and if we think so highly of ourselves, why would we not aim for that |
| 08:24.46 | proprietarysucks | therefore your utopia has just been negated |
| 08:24.56 | Bounty | This is the flaw with human logic |
| 08:25.03 | Bounty | we talked about this earlier |
| 08:25.07 | proprietarysucks | It's not at all perfectly logical to belive that |
| 08:25.20 | Bounty | Just because we have stealing does not mean another form of life has it |
| 08:25.27 | Bommes | G0A: But that's making a lot of assumptions, since there is a ton of stuff hidden in genes that we don't know about and researchers are only discovering that bit by bit currently. |
| 08:25.32 | Bounty | This is the same reason we have people saying aliens would be hostile |
| 08:25.40 | proprietarysucks | In fact it's quite the opposite of logical, given everything we observe in nature |
| 08:25.55 | proprietarysucks | Nature is a cruel, unrelenting force of absolute death and dispair, to bring life, essentially |
| 08:26.02 | Bounty | Just because everytime we encounter something new and either enslave or kill it does not mean thats how it works in the universe |
| 08:26.15 | proprietarysucks | Every second of every day and night millions of beings are dying horribly on this planet and there is no reason to believe or even to DESIRE it to stop |
| 08:26.17 | Bommes | I think since there are already a lot of studies with valid arguments that predisposition to becoming a psychopath is for a good percentage predetermined by our genes it's safe to say that there is a lot more to discover |
| 08:26.25 | G0A | Bommes reasoning by that there are tons of hiddden genes is the worst assumption.... |
| 08:26.31 | Bounty | BTW |
| 08:26.37 | Bommes | G0A: How? |
| 08:26.42 | Bommes | is it not true? |
| 08:26.45 | Bommes | I'm not saying hidden genes |
| 08:26.50 | Bounty | I love how there are two totally different discussions going on simultaneously haha |
| 08:26.51 | Bommes | I'm saying genes that we don't know what they do |
| 08:27.06 | Bommes | since usually genes have very multifacetted functions inside the body |
| 08:27.07 | proprietarysucks | You will enjoy sam harris' definition of morality without religion I think |
| 08:27.37 | proprietarysucks | it can introduce you to his concept of what is 'right' and 'wrong', WITHOUT needing to reference this unrealistic child fantasy world |
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| 08:27.51 | proprietarysucks | ironically by doing just that to create the spectrum |
| 08:27.53 | Bounty | what? |
| 08:28.00 | Bounty | nobody invoked religion into this at all |
| 08:28.06 | G0A | Bommes I am saying we know very little about the nature of genes, currently it seems to me that there tons of safe proof in most of it while some part have very little safe proof and everything interconnected. |
| 08:28.10 | Bounty | why are you even bringing that up? lol |
| 08:28.14 | proprietarysucks | exactly, no one is talking about religion |
| 08:28.16 | Bounty | I'm agnostic |
| 08:28.25 | proprietarysucks | good job, that's irrelevent |
| 08:28.33 | proprietarysucks | as, like I said, no one is talking about religion |
| 08:28.38 | Bounty | Just saying, since you brought it up |
| 08:28.41 | Bounty | You just brought it up? |
| 08:28.42 | proprietarysucks | ? |
| 08:28.51 | proprietarysucks | That's the name of the video |
| 08:28.54 | proprietarysucks | haha |
| 08:28.55 | Bounty | [03:27] <proprietarysucks> You will enjoy sam harris' definition of morality without religion I think [03:27] == ElectricPrism1 [~Loren@c-50-174-39-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] [03:27] <proprietarysucks> it can introduce you to his concept of what is 'right' and 'wrong', WITHOUT needing to reference this unrealistic child fantasy world |
| 08:28.55 | Bommes | G0A: Exactly, we know very little. But studies and researchers already found out that there is a connection between psychopathy and genes. |
| 08:29.07 | proprietarysucks | That's the name of the video, I'm not talking about religion |
| 08:29.07 | Bounty | Yeah but what does that have to do with anything? |
| 08:29.16 | Bounty | Alright |
| 08:29.20 | Bounty | Thats fine |
| 08:29.31 | proprietarysucks | He talks about morality and utopia and I'm saying you should check it out because it's interesting |
| 08:29.35 | proprietarysucks | I don't care about religion at all |
| 08:29.37 | Bounty | I don't think anyone in this room would argue against that lol |
| 08:29.39 | G0A | Bommes Or connection to environment as I see those studies wasnt run on separated twins. |
| 08:30.03 | proprietarysucks | Religion is completely unrelated to my life or views |
| 08:30.26 | Bounty | Good |
| 08:30.29 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:30.32 | proprietarysucks | Sam Harris videos are interesting because he talks a lot about rationality and facts. How he thinks about truth and reality and so on |
| 08:30.47 | proprietarysucks | The agnostic/atheist part of it is secondary, really |
| 08:31.02 | Bounty | That arguement could go on for years |
| 08:31.12 | proprietarysucks | and of course he's just some guy, but I find it interesting how he thinks |
| 08:31.15 | Bounty | agnostic vs atheist |
| 08:31.32 | proprietarysucks | richard dawkins sums that up pretty well actually |
| 08:31.33 | Bommes | G0A: Well, if that matter is so important to you that you need evidence in form of separated twins you might have to wait for like 50 more years since psychopathy as well as separated twins are relatively rare. |
| 08:31.37 | proprietarysucks | in a nice terse package |
| 08:31.52 | Bounty | To me, it is quite simple and I don't understand why anyone argues about it |
| 08:32.02 | Bounty | Agnostic = I don't know and Atheist = No |
| 08:32.02 | Bommes | I'm out of this discussion, I don't want to try to convince you since I don't really care what you think and this discussion seems to circle by now. |
| 08:32.14 | Bounty | join our conversation bommes |
| 08:32.18 | Bounty | :) |
| 08:32.39 | proprietarysucks | He says something like he's agnostic to god just like he's agnostic to fairies, he can't definitely PROVE there is no god or fairies, but the likeliness is low enough to safely call it a fact they don't exist |
| 08:32.42 | Bounty | we've had two separate discussions going on for the last hour haha |
| 08:32.58 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 08:33.12 | proprietarysucks | I think that's a fair description. I mean you can't really prove something doesn't exist, topically at least |
| 08:33.20 | Bounty | Agreed |
| 08:33.24 | proprietarysucks | You can somewhat prove something does exist, topically |
| 08:33.38 | proprietarysucks | of course once you get into quantum physics that stuff breaks down |
| 08:33.56 | G0A | Bommes Agreed, one day we will know better about genes. Who knows maybe there is gene that makes you serial killers no matter what. (that would be awesome and horrifying) |
| 08:34.08 | proprietarysucks | But I think if there is a god, it's quite certain he wouldn't match any of today's religions' descriptions |
| 08:34.09 | Bounty | Which is why I claim to be agnostic, I think we eventually gain our knowledge by admitting ignorance |
| 08:34.11 | Bommes | for something like a "likeliness" of god's existence you would first have to make a reasonable definition of what god is, which is pretty much impossible and has significant cultural differences in religions and there are countless of different forms of "god" |
| 08:34.32 | Bounty | I do have a question for everyone here though |
| 08:34.35 | proprietarysucks | Right, you'd have to explore each myth individually |
| 08:34.45 | Bounty | Curious about everyones opiniones |
| 08:34.47 | proprietarysucks | but most of them prove to be quite rediculous |
| 08:35.08 | Bounty | Do you think we would be more advanced if we had a society that worked more like ants? |
| 08:35.14 | Bounty | That question is for everyone |
| 08:35.18 | proprietarysucks | Scientology's history seems scientifically possible, but they make current claims that we can disprove so it's a bit irrelevent |
| 08:35.29 | Bounty | Agreed |
| 08:35.44 | Bounty | Scientology is an easy one though |
| 08:35.46 | Bounty | >.< |
| 08:35.48 | proprietarysucks | But some religions talk about the earth being created from turtles or birds or bearded men or whatever, that can quite easily be combated |
| 08:35.54 | G0A | I think god is something to simply people life... I personally see no logic in any organized religion. I am atheist agnostic btw |
| 08:36.15 | proprietarysucks | I find it strange that people believe in anything, really |
| 08:36.17 | G0A | simplify* |
| 08:36.18 | Bounty | da fuck is atheist agnostic lol |
| 08:36.22 | Bounty | never heard that one |
| 08:36.37 | proprietarysucks | I mean buddhism is pretty interesting and doesn't have too many whacky origins |
| 08:36.42 | Bounty | Can anyone answer my question though? |
| 08:36.48 | G0A | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism |
| 08:36.50 | Bounty | [03:35] <Bounty> Do you think we would be more advanced if we had a society that worked more like ants? |
| 08:36.57 | proprietarysucks | but still the practice of it, and belief that someone is in the sky giving a shit is kind of rediculous to me |
| 08:37.16 | Bounty | o0o I like that G0A |
| 08:37.18 | proprietarysucks | I think we'd have a society more like ants' society |
| 08:37.20 | Bounty | I guess thats what I am |
| 08:37.24 | Bounty | thanks for that |
| 08:37.28 | Bounty | never knew that existed |
| 08:37.29 | proprietarysucks | which is to say, unidirectional |
| 08:37.37 | Bommes | proprietarysucks: But they only seem ridiculous because of the day and age we live in. They were probably quite reasonable in the day and age that people came up with them and most religions have a very solid core of methods to find happiness and inner peace, regardless of what your environment looks like, using psychological traits of the human mind that are only understood recently |
| 08:37.42 | Bommes | or not even understood at all so far |
| 08:37.49 | proprietarysucks | yep |
| 08:37.59 | proprietarysucks | but of course, I live now, and not then |
| 08:38.11 | proprietarysucks | therefore I speak from current scientific perspective and so on |
| 08:38.16 | Bommes | many methods can still be applied though if you adjust them to your life |
| 08:38.22 | proprietarysucks | obviously if we lived in the dark ages things would be different |
| 08:38.23 | Bommes | and are open to change |
| 08:38.27 | proprietarysucks | that is to say, there would be no starcraft |
| 08:38.40 | Bounty | Do you think that if humans were raised in a society not based on greed and selfishness that we would be much more ahead? |
| 08:38.46 | proprietarysucks | no |
| 08:39.01 | proprietarysucks | I can't think of much that would change our progress rate in my opinion |
| 08:39.09 | Bounty | Heres the problem |
| 08:39.14 | Bounty | IMo atleast |
| 08:39.17 | proprietarysucks | the things you are describing often are the father of invention |
| 08:39.26 | Bounty | If what you say is true, and I am not denying that you're wrong |
| 08:39.34 | Bounty | In that we need our current system |
| 08:39.39 | Bounty | The problem is |
| 08:39.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies_ (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 08:39.45 | Bounty | We're already doomed |
| 08:39.48 | proprietarysucks | well calm down |
| 08:39.49 | Bounty | by ourselves |
| 08:39.53 | proprietarysucks | I didn't say we need our system |
| 08:40.07 | Bounty | elaborate :) |
| 08:40.08 | G0A | I think anything we would give up progress rate would result up on giving up progress leaps (giving up on finding extreme alternatives) |
| 08:40.16 | proprietarysucks | I said that I don't think any changes to what HAS happened already would have resulted in us being much 'further' advanced |
| 08:40.41 | proprietarysucks | I'm not saying we're on the best track, I'm saying that most of the things we've done and been through have been fairly important to have happened |
| 08:41.12 | Bounty | I think capitalism favors progress leaps rather than progressive progress, also capitalism seems to halt once progress reaches a point |
| 08:41.29 | Bommes | you could say absolutely everything that happened so far leads up to this exact moment ;) |
| 08:41.31 | proprietarysucks | it certainly favors leaps I agree |
| 08:41.40 | Bounty | If you look at history |
| 08:41.44 | proprietarysucks | Bommes, an interesting thing to think about is this though |
| 08:41.44 | Bounty | Its mostly leaps |
| 08:41.52 | proprietarysucks | well don't just think about technology |
| 08:41.54 | Bommes | I don't believe in leaps though |
| 08:41.57 | G0A | more like capitalism fails after reaching a certain progress efficiency... |
| 08:41.57 | Bounty | shit just seems to happen by accident |
| 08:42.02 | proprietarysucks | that's not the only thing, remember |
| 08:42.22 | proprietarysucks | but it happens by accident often BECAUSE of that greed and so on |
| 08:42.42 | Bommes | but I would probably be more happy living in a different time than modern society to be honest, I don't like what society is right now |
| 08:42.52 | Bounty | I think that once capitalism reaches a point that the previous progress has created so much profit that the next generation of attempted progress is prevented |
| 08:42.54 | Bounty | make sense? |
| 08:42.56 | proprietarysucks | think about this factoid |
| 08:43.14 | Bounty | I agree bommes |
| 08:43.21 | G0A | in what time? I would love to live in Roman empire around -100-100 |
| 08:43.23 | proprietarysucks | who is the person responsible for the most deaths in recorded history? |
| 08:43.24 | Bounty | From what I've heard from my elders |
| 08:43.26 | Bounty | back in the day |
| 08:43.30 | proprietarysucks | don't google it! |
| 08:43.32 | Bounty | You could go work in a facotry |
| 08:43.37 | Bounty | and support your family |
| 08:43.51 | proprietarysucks | one person, considered responsible for the most deaths in human history |
| 08:43.54 | Bounty | Most of us are here because of those people |
| 08:43.58 | proprietarysucks | guesses? |
| 08:43.59 | G0A | Stalin? |
| 08:44.02 | Bounty | That worked in a factory |
| 08:44.10 | Bounty | and were able to provide for their families |
| 08:44.13 | proprietarysucks | close but not right |
| 08:44.18 | Bounty | Go try that now |
| 08:44.20 | proprietarysucks | Bounty, your guess |
| 08:44.21 | Bounty | Dare you |
| 08:44.25 | Bounty | I've tried it lol |
| 08:44.28 | Bounty | not possible |
| 08:44.29 | proprietarysucks | most deaths caused by one person in all of history? |
| 08:44.49 | G0A | what level direct cause? |
| 08:44.50 | Bounty | What? |
| 08:44.52 | proprietarysucks | answer is Mao Zedong |
| 08:45.05 | proprietarysucks | no one else is even close |
| 08:45.12 | Bounty | Why do you keep bringing up Stalin? People SERIOUSLY need to stop confusing people like him with actual communism |
| 08:45.20 | Bounty | I showed you the definition and you continue to do it |
| 08:45.25 | G0A | Always forget about chinese communism:) |
| 08:45.26 | proprietarysucks | I didn't bring him up |
| 08:45.27 | Bounty | unbelievable |
| 08:45.32 | proprietarysucks | also, we're not talking about communism |
| 08:45.41 | proprietarysucks | I'm trying to tell you something interesting about this history vs today thing |
| 08:45.47 | proprietarysucks | calm down |
| 08:45.50 | Bounty | sorry |
| 08:45.51 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:45.54 | Bounty | Got me raging bro |
| 08:45.56 | Bounty | continue |
| 08:45.59 | proprietarysucks | so here's the thing I find interesting about this factoid |
| 08:46.20 | proprietarysucks | first of all he's responsible for more than twice what stalin and hitler combined were |
| 08:46.33 | proprietarysucks | in china today I often ask chinese what they think about him |
| 08:46.46 | proprietarysucks | most of them seem to have the same feelings about him |
| 08:47.08 | proprietarysucks | they are regretful about what happened but seem overall content with the history and feel that his actions overall pushed china to where it is now |
| 08:47.17 | proprietarysucks | it's an interesting thing to experience |
| 08:47.18 | Bounty | For the record, this is why Maoism and Stalinism are separate from Communism >.< |
| 08:47.38 | proprietarysucks | why are YOU talking about communism |
| 08:47.40 | proprietarysucks | haha |
| 08:47.41 | Bommes | I'm not very adapt in history, what happened in China that he killed so many people? |
| 08:47.44 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:47.48 | proprietarysucks | the great leap forward |
| 08:48.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 08:48.11 | Bounty | the transition to communism bommes |
| 08:48.12 | G0A | Bommes usual "great economic plan" |
| 08:48.14 | Bounty | same as in the USSR |
| 08:48.25 | proprietarysucks | http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Persons_responsible_for_the_most_deaths_in_history, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_zedong#Great_Leap_Forward |
| 08:48.25 | Bounty | only in the end |
| 08:48.28 | Bommes | so basically famines and ppl starving? |
| 08:48.30 | Bounty | when you do that transition |
| 08:48.33 | Bounty | yeah |
| 08:48.37 | Bounty | You get a dictator |
| 08:48.39 | Bounty | everytime |
| 08:48.43 | G0A | Bommes utter failure of central planning of farming... |
| 08:49.00 | Bounty | That is why I believe in communism as a goal by I don't agree with the currently proposed transition |
| 08:49.03 | proprietarysucks | he basically just decided everything was going to be one way and forced it, ignoring whatever effects it would have |
| 08:49.11 | Bounty | I think its inevitable |
| 08:49.18 | Bounty | Or we wipe ourselves |
| 08:49.23 | Bounty | out |
| 08:49.27 | proprietarysucks | communism isn't real though, like you said |
| 08:49.41 | G0A | like capitalism isnt real... |
| 08:49.44 | proprietarysucks | you can't just give everyone everything they want and need, the system would break |
| 08:49.48 | Bounty | Time is not real either |
| 08:49.49 | proprietarysucks | exactly how it did for mao |
| 08:49.58 | G0A | after all capitalism is an utopia too |
| 08:50.01 | proprietarysucks | look at that article, there's a picture of everyone eating for free |
| 08:50.02 | Bounty | that is a VERY good point G0A just said |
| 08:50.03 | Bounty | wait |
| 08:50.11 | proprietarysucks | then the next section is called Consequences, haha |
| 08:50.13 | Bounty | what G0A just said is important IMO |
| 08:50.19 | Bounty | because technically |
| 08:50.29 | Bounty | the only reason currency has value |
| 08:50.29 | proprietarysucks | capitalism is not a utopia what are you talking about |
| 08:50.33 | Bounty | is because we all agree it is |
| 08:50.41 | Bounty | if we all woke up tomorrow and siad |
| 08:50.47 | Bounty | currency is no longer of value |
| 08:50.50 | Bounty | it would be worthless |
| 08:50.54 | Bounty | based on belief alone |
| 08:51.03 | G0A | proprietarysucks its an utopia |
| 08:51.03 | proprietarysucks | now you're just talking rubbish again |
| 08:51.11 | Bounty | Am I? |
| 08:51.14 | proprietarysucks | yes |
| 08:51.17 | Bounty | What is the actual value of money? |
| 08:51.21 | Bounty | In terms of needs |
| 08:51.23 | proprietarysucks | what you can trade for it |
| 08:51.26 | Bommes | capitalism can be an utopia if that is how you see "your" utopia |
| 08:51.45 | Bommes | since utopia isn't a clear defined word |
| 08:51.48 | Bounty | so you're saying nothing else has more value than a piece of paper? |
| 08:51.52 | Bounty | With nothing to back it |
| 08:52.08 | Bounty | Back in the day, that piece of paper was backed by gold |
| 08:52.08 | proprietarysucks | these concepts lead down endless, pointless roads of thought |
| 08:52.15 | Bounty | not really |
| 08:52.21 | Bounty | If money was backed by something |
| 08:52.24 | Bounty | IT would make sense |
| 08:52.26 | Bounty | but its not anymore |
| 08:52.32 | Bounty | Its quite literally, just paper |
| 08:53.03 | Bounty | Do I win? |
| 08:53.06 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:53.07 | G0A | for me its an utopia because you cant really make difference between private and public and it each society there must be something publicly owned... In capitalist utopia everything would be privately owned. |
| 08:53.26 | Bounty | agreed G0A |
| 08:53.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (~proprieta@ppp-58-8-92-165.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 08:53.30 | Bounty | but |
| 08:53.33 | Bounty | imo |
| 08:53.38 | Bommes | yeah the whole monetary system is bound to crash at some point, the financial sector barely makes any sense anymore and there are profits generated out of nowhere, the money grows exponentially everywhere because a large part of the western world saves their money in banks |
| 08:53.51 | Bounty | the problem with capitlism is that on a long enough timeline it gets out of control |
| 08:53.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (~proprieta@ppp-58-8-92-165.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 08:54.08 | Bommes | but the actual growth of value and work done by people isn't even close to being as big as that monetary growth and the money that is stashed and redistributed by the financial sector |
| 08:54.14 | Bounty | Money is created from debt |
| 08:54.17 | Bounty | from interest |
| 08:54.18 | proprietarysucks | got disconnected |
| 08:54.33 | proprietarysucks | no, no no |
| 08:54.44 | proprietarysucks | you're confusing 'money' with certain economic models |
| 08:54.45 | Bounty | that or it is printed from the government |
| 08:54.48 | Bommes | yeah but most of that debt nowadays is in the hands of states |
| 08:55.03 | Bommes | and I mean states can go bankrupt |
| 08:55.04 | proprietarysucks | if I find some gold on the ground and give it to you for a sheep, that's money |
| 08:55.05 | Bounty | its not backed by ANYTHING though |
| 08:55.08 | Bounty | Thats the main issue |
| 08:55.15 | Bounty | Its literally paper and numbers in computers |
| 08:55.18 | Bommes | but just look at what's going on there with rating agencies and all that shit, it's a farce |
| 08:55.18 | Bounty | It means nothing |
| 08:55.37 | proprietarysucks | I don't understand why that's important |
| 08:55.49 | Bounty | Our current money system exists for the same reason that God does, because people believe it |
| 08:55.49 | proprietarysucks | the only thing money needs to be is un-replicatable |
| 08:56.00 | proprietarysucks | doesn't matter if it's digital or paper or made of seashells |
| 08:56.19 | Bounty | It does actually |
| 08:56.20 | proprietarysucks | hence bitcoins |
| 08:56.29 | Bommes | proprietarysucks: what Bounty says is still true, money only has value because we all agree that it has |
| 08:56.37 | proprietarysucks | yes but that's irrelevent |
| 08:56.44 | Bounty | No its not |
| 08:56.50 | proprietarysucks | sure it is |
| 08:56.52 | Bounty | From what I read, that is the whole basis of bitcoins |
| 08:56.59 | Bounty | lol |
| 08:57.19 | proprietarysucks | his point as I understand it is that money is some kind of faith based thing |
| 08:57.24 | Bounty | Its not hard to create a new form of currency |
| 08:57.28 | proprietarysucks | however faith implies belief in the ABSENSE of facts |
| 08:57.31 | Bommes | I mean everything can be relevant or irrelevant based on what you want to know or not know or in which direction you want the conversation to go :D |
| 08:57.47 | proprietarysucks | the FACT is that money is and will continue to be valuable, this is proven constantly |
| 08:57.50 | Bounty | the catholic church could come out with their own form of currency tomorrow and it would be worth something just because of the sheer fact of the amount of people who say it has value |
| 08:57.58 | proprietarysucks | therefore believe in monetary systems in general is not at all faith |
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| 08:58.16 | Bounty | the system should be based on actual value |
| 08:58.23 | Bounty | Do i NEED this? |
| 08:58.24 | Bounty | yes |
| 08:58.24 | proprietarysucks | there you go again with should |
| 08:58.27 | Bounty | So it has value |
| 08:58.32 | proprietarysucks | why should it? |
| 08:58.37 | Bommes | Bounty never said it's like a faith though. |
| 08:58.39 | Bounty | Because I need it |
| 08:58.47 | Bommes | He said it WOULD be like a faith if we all disagree to its value. |
| 08:58.49 | Bounty | not to be confused with want |
| 08:58.58 | Bommes | which is technically true. |
| 08:59.05 | proprietarysucks | "Our current money system exists for the same reason that God does, because people believe it" |
| 08:59.08 | Bounty | I NEED food |
| 08:59.09 | proprietarysucks | ^ NOPE |
| 08:59.14 | Bounty | So if someone offers me a dollar |
| 08:59.21 | Bounty | VS a hamburger that costs 1 dollar |
| 08:59.24 | proprietarysucks | god exists because people believe in things that are against science |
| 08:59.25 | Bounty | I choose the hamburger |
| 08:59.30 | Bounty | because it has true value |
| 08:59.33 | Bommes | mmh yeah that statement isn't technically true |
| 08:59.35 | proprietarysucks | money exists because people believe in facts |
| 08:59.38 | Bommes | but what he said before :P |
| 08:59.48 | proprietarysucks | the FACT is if I walk outside and pay for something, I will get an item |
| 08:59.54 | Bounty | I'm surprised anyone would argue vs this honestly |
| 08:59.58 | proprietarysucks | the FACT is if I pray for that item I will get nothing |
| 09:00.02 | Bounty | because money USED to be backed by gold |
| 09:00.07 | Bounty | which made sense |
| 09:00.10 | proprietarysucks | sigh |
| 09:00.10 | Bounty | now its just... nothing |
| 09:00.18 | proprietarysucks | that's another misconception |
| 09:00.30 | proprietarysucks | it was 'backed' by gold meaning you could 'turn it in' for gold |
| 09:00.33 | proprietarysucks | guess what |
| 09:00.36 | Bounty | You can't have a god damn stable economy based on a currency that can be printed |
| 09:00.37 | proprietarysucks | you STILL CAN BUY GOLD WITH MONEY |
| 09:00.38 | Bounty | IMO |
| 09:00.48 | proprietarysucks | also, gold is by your logic, just as bad |
| 09:00.57 | Bounty | Like you said earlier propriety |
| 09:01.00 | Bounty | vs communism |
| 09:01.03 | Bounty | its human nature |
| 09:01.12 | Bounty | If you have a currency that can be printed out of thin air |
| 09:01.13 | proprietarysucks | the only things natively valuable to life are water, food, sleep and sex, basically |
| 09:01.22 | Bounty | Pretty sure people will abuse it |
| 09:01.27 | proprietarysucks | gold and paper are the same thing essentially |
| 09:01.46 | Bounty | please explain |
| 09:01.50 | Bounty | damnit |
| 09:01.51 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:02.58 | Bommes | I wouldn't agree at all that paper&gold are essentially the same thing in terms of using it as a substitute for trading value. |
| 09:03.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (~proprieta@ppp-58-8-92-165.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 09:03.13 | Bounty | its not the same |
| 09:03.15 | Bommes | wouldn't agree at all that paper&gold are essentially the same thing in terms of using it as a substitute for trading value. |
| 09:03.16 | Bounty | I mean, look |
| 09:03.22 | Bounty | I have a totally different way of thinking |
| 09:03.23 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:03.34 | Bounty | I tend to look way to in depth of things |
| 09:03.40 | Bounty | Which to me, is a flaw and a pro |
| 09:03.50 | proprietarysucks | so which of the universally valuable things do you propose to trade with |
| 09:03.59 | proprietarysucks | sex, food, water, or sleep |
| 09:04.17 | Bounty | for capitalist purposes? |
| 09:04.26 | Bounty | something rare |
| 09:04.31 | Bounty | that cannot be printed on demand |
| 09:04.40 | proprietarysucks | like what |
| 09:04.41 | Bounty | like bottle caps in fallout lol |
| 09:05.02 | proprietarysucks | you have a quite elementary view of things |
| 09:05.15 | Bounty | I mean I personally agree with the original which was gold |
| 09:05.22 | Bounty | very limited |
| 09:05.25 | proprietarysucks | your path of thought will eventually lead you to the understanding of why we need something more portable |
| 09:05.38 | Bounty | portable? |
| 09:05.43 | proprietarysucks | keep getting disconnected, sigh |
| 09:05.47 | Bommes | proprietarysucks: Just because I'm not smart enough to come up with a way of reinventing our financial system with a better currency doesn't mean that your statement of gold=paper is valid. |
| 09:05.48 | Bounty | its cool |
| 09:06.16 | Bounty | You wanna know why its a problem? |
| 09:06.18 | proprietarysucks | anyway I'm gonna go because I can't stay logged in |
| 09:06.23 | proprietarysucks | worthless hotel wifi |
| 09:06.25 | proprietarysucks | cheers, gl |
| 09:06.30 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:06.31 | Bounty | damn |
| 09:07.06 | Bommes | although I think purely digital/virtual currency would be a pretty good way if there is a way to get a better grasp on how interest and that stuff works and how it can not be exploited |
| 09:07.14 | Bounty | I do my best in these conversations to learn something and I even admitted I was wrong a few times but for some reason the opposition just refuses to admit fault |
| 09:07.41 | Bounty | I don't even think we NEED a currency Bommes |
| 09:07.47 | Bounty | but I mean thats just me |
| 09:07.53 | Bounty | I think we need it in our current state |
| 09:08.00 | Bounty | but realistically we don't truly need it |
| 09:08.05 | Bommes | it would be nice to not need one, but I don't see that as something achievable in my life time so I don't really worry about that |
| 09:08.15 | Bounty | Yeah |
| 09:08.16 | Bounty | I agree |
| 09:08.20 | Bounty | Thats my problem |
| 09:08.23 | Bounty | haha |
| 09:08.29 | Bounty | Like I said, I think WAY to far ahead |
| 09:08.33 | Bounty | and in depth |
| 09:08.56 | Bounty | No issue admitting that >.< |
| 09:09.32 | Bounty | I guess we were both born in the wrong time lol |
| 09:10.04 | Bommes | I mean I'm similar, but a good way to just ignore that constant annoyance of how things are is to just live like you want and don't care about social pressure or how other people would expect or like you to act I think |
| 09:10.44 | Bounty | I've tried |
| 09:10.46 | Bounty | trust me |
| 09:11.14 | Bounty | THANKFULLY, it does not seriously impact my life but in my spare time in discussions with others it does |
| 09:11.30 | Bommes | :D |
| 09:11.45 | Bounty | I mean it kind of impacts my life but at this current time it is benefiting me lol |
| 09:11.51 | Bounty | >.< |
| 09:13.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (50e88a7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.232.138.126) |
| 09:14.35 | Bounty | Wanna hear something I find funny? |
| 09:14.47 | Bounty | I posted on my facebook tonight "We all know love is blind, but what is loyalty?" |
| 09:14.49 | Bommes | sure |
| 09:14.54 | Bounty | no responses |
| 09:14.55 | Bounty | rofl |
| 09:15.37 | Bounty | Yet if I post some picture of a quote that people like to think they believe in but they don't actually practice I get tons of likes |
| 09:15.39 | Bommes | obviously no responses, you made all your followers self-aware and now they got off facebook |
| 09:15.57 | Bounty | yeah lol |
| 09:16.03 | Bommes | no more loyalty in your life I'm afraid |
| 09:16.15 | Bounty | Hey, I tell the wife that constantly |
| 09:16.21 | Bounty | its all horse shit |
| 09:16.31 | Bounty | I tell her to question me always lol |
| 09:16.56 | Bounty | If I'm not being truthful I can present evidence |
| 09:17.13 | Bounty | err If I Am being truthful* |
| 09:17.47 | Bommes | yeah :) I think the only way that attitude can backfire is in times of emotional distress |
| 09:17.58 | Bommes | some people seem to be in emotional distress 24/7 though |
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| 09:18.39 | Bounty | Oh trust me we've been down that road |
| 09:18.51 | Bounty | I come to my senses and realize I was an idiot |
| 09:18.54 | Bounty | >.< |
| 09:19.12 | Bounty | but yeah, I can see how that would be a problem for someone who is 24/7 under that |
| 09:20.28 | Bounty | I also posted this "Why do people laugh when you talk about life beyond earth or even anything beyond earth in general? It's almost as if people still believe everything revolves around us" |
| 09:20.41 | Bommes | natural way of change, I think everyone goes through that... I'm often too afraid to put myself into situations of that change though when I see some unlikely but reasonable outcomes that I don't want to put myself into which ends me up at not changing at all which sucks |
| 09:20.41 | Bounty | For the record I only recently became active on facebook |
| 09:20.45 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:21.08 | Bounty | I don't think we can change |
| 09:21.13 | Bounty | But we can still be realistic |
| 09:21.31 | Bounty | When I say change I mean in terms of our personalities |
| 09:21.40 | Bounty | I think that is permanent |
| 09:21.57 | Bommes | mmh, I think we can change the flaws of our personalities that developed out of unreasonable assumptions or observations in our youth |
| 09:22.20 | Bounty | True, I should have been more specific |
| 09:22.30 | Bounty | I am mostly referring to once you get out in the real world |
| 09:22.48 | Bounty | Once you go beyond being taught |
| 09:22.54 | Bounty | That's it |
| 09:23.17 | Bommes | I do think everyone kind of has his own drive on why to live life and what is fascinating, which is a pretty natural thing imo... Just like you see trees growing out of the ground, no 2 trees will look exactly the same |
| 09:23.49 | Bounty | True |
| 09:24.14 | Bounty | But to me, it seems obvious to look beyond our planet for answers |
| 09:24.20 | Bounty | based on the scale |
| 09:24.31 | Bounty | I mean if it helps |
| 09:24.40 | Bounty | I've watched a shit load of Carl Sagan and Neil Tyson |
| 09:24.43 | Bounty | haha |
| 09:24.46 | Bounty | So maybe that explains it |
| 09:24.54 | Bommes | :D |
| 09:25.05 | Bounty | But I went seeking them |
| 09:25.10 | Bounty | I did not let them come to me |
| 09:25.21 | Bounty | If that makes sense |
| 09:26.18 | Bommes | yeah I think that's the most important thing. The worst is this kind of "fear for love", where people think behaving in a certain way is necessary to make family members or society in general like them |
| 09:26.36 | Bommes | so they develop into a completely different person than they want to be, develop habits that are hard to overcome later etc |
| 09:26.57 | Bounty | I agree |
| 09:26.57 | Bommes | I think that's a very real thing and a pretty big problem overall |
| 09:27.09 | Bounty | I personally went the complete opposite direction haha |
| 09:27.29 | Bounty | Care to hear something funny yet again? :) |
| 09:27.54 | Bommes | sure, but I'm also going to prepare something to eat soon |
| 09:28.43 | Bounty | I've had family members ask me why I do not speak with certain members of my family more often, their response as to why I should was the following "How do you know someday you won't need something from them?" so my response to that was "So basically you're saying I should spend time with my family just so I can exploit it in the future for my personal benefit?" |
| 09:28.52 | Bounty | I think that story sum me up perfectly |
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| 09:29.42 | Bounty | :) |
| 09:30.32 | Bommes | :D yeah |
| 09:30.32 | Bommes | I really don't like entering that territory of giving importance to what other people think about you |
| 09:30.44 | Bounty | Yeah, it is dangerous |
| 09:30.55 | Bounty | But again, I think that story sums up my way of thinking |
| 09:30.56 | Bounty | lol |
| 09:30.59 | Bommes | it can be pretty easy to exploit depending on what you want to achieve but it feels so surreal |
| 09:31.31 | Bounty | I personally think you should never exploit, everything should be earned |
| 09:36.56 | Bommes | yeah but that's the problem with human interaction, isn't it? Like in day-to-day interaction with other people you can't really tell if someone is genuine or what the motives are, unless you get to know him like really well. |
| 09:37.13 | Bommes | There's always a lot of uncertainty involved. |
| 09:37.50 | Bommes | At the same time I'm really afraid of confrontation and only slowly getting better at it, but confrontation usually is the best way to get a genuine reaction out of people. |
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| 09:39.30 | Bommes | also seeking confrontation just for the sake of confrontation doesn't make much sense |
| 09:46.52 | Bounty | I tend to seek "confrontation" just to check my own sanity |
| 09:48.54 | G0A | ehh error message, trying to create missile direcetly and not a context of an attack |
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| 11:57.38 | Bommes | hmm, there might be some serious drama going on with duckies, maybe he is taken hostage and can only communicate with the outside world by joining and leaving this channel. |
| 11:57.48 | Bommes | Anyone here fluent in morse code? |
| 12:03.50 | Zolden | don't worry about duckies, he can always fly away and call for help |
| 12:04.44 | Zolden | and it's possible just a coincidence, a joke of odds, that in morse code his message means "i'm so fucked, help! (or Earth will be destroyed)" |
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| 12:37.54 | A1win | finally made a project thread for this: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/project-workplace/59192-2d-space-deathmatch/ |
| 12:57.52 | Zolden | maybe I should do it too |
| 12:58.02 | Zolden | or keep map in secret until release |
| 12:58.15 | Zolden | they can't tell me anything new about my map |
| 13:00.21 | Zolden | and the only feedback i'm expecting is balance related which can't be provided based on a thread |
| 13:00.24 | Zolden | right, kingTD? |
| 13:00.37 | kingTD | right now matter what you writting about |
| 13:01.08 | Zolden | 5th day of balancing... maybe about 50% done |
| 13:03.06 | kingTD | what to use in condition for Entered Chat Message if I want to filter if the chat string have only letter, only number, or would not have letters and numbers in same word? |
| 13:09.36 | Kueken | I don't think there is a way to distinguish these |
| 13:09.47 | Kueken | so you would need to check all the characters |
| 13:10.57 | kingTD | how to do that effeciantly? checking if its a letter or number? making 10 conditions with numbers? |
| 13:11.00 | Zolden | we can access every character? |
| 13:11.05 | kingTD | y |
| 13:11.10 | Zolden | coool |
| 13:11.46 | Kueken | I would just make a loop |
| 13:12.17 | Kueken | store all numbers in one string and loop the characters of that string vs the current character of the input |
| 13:12.29 | Kueken | if you get what I mean |
| 13:14.09 | Zolden | he gets, he's a smartass motherfucker |
| 13:14.21 | kingTD | zolden :( |
| 13:14.44 | Zolden | double monkey jumps kingTD |
| 13:15.06 | kingTD | burns in puppies pool |
| 13:16.14 | Kueken | there is a char data type right? |
| 13:16.38 | Kueken | can we use that at all? I don't remember any functions for it |
| 13:17.48 | Zolden | you mean variable type? |
| 13:17.50 | Zolden | why not |
| 13:18.42 | Zolden | can we do this: char c; int i; string s = "bla-bla"; c = s[i] |
| 13:19.00 | Zolden | if it works like this, it's what char type for |
| 13:19.24 | Kueken | pretty sure it doesn't work like this |
| 13:19.36 | Zolden | ok, that's it |
| 13:19.48 | Zolden | i'm hiring terrorists to launch a missile to blizz hq |
| 13:19.59 | Zolden | (if it indeed odesn't work like this) |
| 13:21.09 | Bommes | is there even a char data type? |
| 13:21.09 | Bommes | never seen it |
| 13:21.31 | Bommes | maybe you can use it in custom script |
| 13:21.33 | Bommes | ? |
| 13:22.01 | Zolden | yes |
| 13:22.02 | Zolden | we can |
| 13:22.13 | Bommes | like it's part of galaxy but they didn't bother to put it in the GUI since they didn't have a use for it |
| 13:22.19 | Bommes | in GUI too? |
| 13:23.15 | Zolden | not in gui |
| 13:24.19 | Zolden | and string doesn't let to [] |
| 13:24.22 | Zolden | bitch |
| 13:24.34 | Zolden | and how to get/set chars in string? |
| 13:24.38 | Zolden | by index |
| 13:25.25 | Zolden | where's JademusSreg when I need him |
| 13:27.29 | Kueken | get via StringSub |
| 13:27.39 | Kueken | set via getting and re-writing |
| 13:29.34 | Kueken | kingTD: something like this maybe: |
| 13:29.35 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/0cPKidx3 |
| 13:29.38 | Kueken | not tested |
| 13:30.15 | Zolden | ok, there are some nice string related functions |
| 13:30.17 | Zolden | fine then |
| 13:32.42 | kingTD | kueken thanks, will test it someday !! |
| 13:33.07 | Kueken | its probably messed up though |
| 13:34.39 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/Yjr9Wwa8 |
| 13:34.58 | Kueken | that should at least have no syntax error :) |
| 13:36.20 | kingTD | are you sure? still syntax error |
| 13:36.50 | Kueken | :( |
| 13:37.24 | Kueken | okay firing up editor |
| 13:37.52 | Kueken | then I might as well test if it even works like it should :F |
| 13:38.04 | kingTD | closing is missing |
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| 13:44.58 | Kueken | there are surplus ; after the for parenthesis |
| 13:54.39 | kingTD | mmm where? :s |
| 13:56.09 | Kueken | there are several more things that need fixing :D |
| 13:56.12 | Kueken | just a second |
| 13:57.05 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/Yjr9Wwa8 |
| 13:57.17 | Kueken | wrong link |
| 13:57.24 | Kueken | https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n4dqg291ub8b65/NumberCheck.SC2Map |
| 13:57.32 | Kueken | there you go |
| 13:58.56 | Kueken | all it does is checking if the input string consists of only numbers or not |
| 13:59.19 | Kueken | (and it might not be the most efficient way to do so :D) |
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| 14:00.12 | kingTD | whole map?! |
| 14:02.30 | kingTD | okay i c c c c |
| 14:05.49 | Kueken | you could probably just convert the iterator to string instead of using a string variable with the numbers, but this way it is easier to adjust if you need the same check for letters |
| 14:25.28 | Kueken | oh, kingTD |
| 14:25.45 | Kueken | you can probably just use Convert String To Integer |
| 14:25.54 | Kueken | and if it returns something valid, its a number :D |
| 14:26.23 | kingTD | or we can use your code! |
| 14:36.48 | Zolden | why do you need to analyse strings, twod? |
| 14:37.02 | kingTD | if dialog is created with triggers and then destroyed so it destroys it for good or some sort of things stored in memory? |
| 14:37.29 | Zolden | destroy means destroy |
| 14:37.47 | Zolden | never witnessed any mem leaks after destroy happened |
| 14:38.23 | kingTD | well if typo by me made or something to make happen to make it work in triggers that will use the world used but needs it in numbers and wouldnt break the shit |
| 14:39.12 | Zolden | also, you can test: create 1k, or 10k of dialogs, destroy, compare fps'es |
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| 14:44.00 | Kueken | from my experience, SC2's garbage collection is pretty efficient |
| 15:01.44 | Dustin | A lot better than WC3's was |
| 15:01.58 | Dustin | I spent 30% of development time making sure shit wouldn't leak |
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| 15:20.43 | kingTD | da eta pizdiets :D http://youtu.be/LB3iRygQsvI |
| 15:23.18 | Zolden | :) |
| 15:23.39 | Zolden | nice speech and calmness at final |
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| 15:31.54 | Delphinium | Someone said that SM model cann't use ingame model's animation, so I have to make an example... |
| 15:32.00 | Delphinium | http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/44/893/12123.gif |
| 15:40.45 | Kueken | thats a weird dance |
| 15:41.54 | Kueken | Zolden: that sounds like that happens to them every day o_0 |
| 15:42.39 | Delphinium | 0.0 |
| 15:56.21 | Ahli | that's a command, kueken... like "go!" |
| 15:57.04 | Kueken | so... I can go in a club and say "Do the go!" and everyone will do it like that? |
| 15:58.04 | Ahli | soldiers and police's special forces use that, afaIk |
| 15:59.02 | Ahli | http://zombiehunters.org/wiki/images/HandSignals.jpg |
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| 16:09.52 | Delphinium | Military tactical Signal I guess, I just want blz's SM model make some movement 0.0 |
| 16:16.35 | kingTD | ohh, I see kereans have map that uses my modified WoW human buildings :] |
| 16:17.24 | kingTD | and south asia is dead |
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| 17:11.28 | Zandose | hey, i have a question. |
| 17:11.50 | Zandose | can i create a beam inside a protrait |
| 17:12.24 | Zandose | in gax3 you can create a beam but can i do the same thing in a portrait |
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| 17:13.47 | Fate_ | maybee it u attach it to the model that is the protrait |
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| 17:14.10 | Fate_ | iv never attached a pure beam to sth |
| 17:14.33 | Fate_ | but it might be possible using site ops |
| 17:19.41 | Zandose | k |
| 17:21.29 | Zolden | yea use 2 sites attached to a model and moved with site ops away from the model, and these sites will be launch and impact hosts for the beam |
| 17:25.20 | Zolden | kingTD how's your map doing? |
| 17:25.31 | kingTD | which one? |
| 17:25.41 | Zolden | the one you're working the most last dies |
| 17:25.47 | Zolden | *days |
| 17:31.03 | kingTD | sunday was working on troops defence, yesterday on Siege one, today on AoK |
| 17:31.42 | kingTD | hmm when in the last 5 days exactly I was working on TotalCraft.. hmmmm |
| 17:33.03 | Zolden | ;/ |
| 17:33.10 | Zolden | why don't you focus on one map? |
| 17:33.42 | Zolden | have you meet blizz requirements to feature your map? |
| 17:33.52 | Zolden | i want AoK to be featured to rape noobs |
| 17:34.55 | Zolden | Kueken why kingTD don't focus on one map? |
| 17:35.10 | kingTD | on which one I would have to focus in your opinion.. Now when I look at AoK its such a shame map.. I feel like I would better play the map that was 2 years agon than at which state the map is now |
| 17:35.38 | Zolden | what's wrong with actual AoK? |
| 17:35.42 | Kueken | ? |
| 17:35.55 | Zolden | Kueken you don't know either? |
| 17:36.02 | Kueken | how would I know |
| 17:36.24 | Zolden | because you smart, you can know things that are not visible, but can be understood after some thinking |
| 17:36.38 | Zolden | like the necessity to attack europe for example |
| 17:36.52 | kingTD | troops defence now probably in good state for them to be featured. AoK was always ready for them to be featured except those non my own create assets |
| 17:36.54 | Kueken | well, that one was pretty obvious |
| 17:37.26 | Zolden | i never played troop defence, i'm afraid |
| 17:37.29 | Zolden | is it fun? |
| 17:37.41 | kingTD | decent |
| 17:37.48 | Zolden | what genre? |
| 17:37.48 | kingTD | if you like the Melee itself |
| 17:38.02 | Zolden | sc2 melee? it's decent |
| 17:38.04 | kingTD | micro macro troops defence map |
| 17:38.12 | Zolden | i like macro |
| 17:38.21 | kingTD | surviving waves of enemys |
| 17:38.30 | Zolden | so there you have to control units? |
| 17:39.07 | kingTD | problems with AoK is the UI, colors, options, the general feel of gameplay, the assets look bad and not really enjoyable to be around them |
| 17:39.16 | kingTD | yeah |
| 17:39.57 | Zolden | the best thing about aok is game mechanics, the gameplay, other things like ui and models aren't important for me |
| 17:40.06 | Zolden | and game's fine |
| 17:40.47 | kingTD | Zolden some old version of the map here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFGHNfYF4E |
| 17:43.43 | kingTD | the map generation really makes sad to play in.. quite dull map and the assets for rocks are shit. Quite empty map |
| 17:45.05 | Zolden | what if you make a nice rock model? |
| 17:46.14 | kingTD | idk idk, i need now better look how can I improve that general feel |
| 17:46.51 | Zolden | what if you whit on old maps and polish zoldarium? |
| 17:47.09 | Zolden | *shit |
| 17:47.40 | Zolden | btw, do you spend more time on mapmaking than on useless things during last days? |
| 17:48.09 | kingTD | well quite equal time |
| 17:49.58 | Zolden | cmon |
| 17:50.10 | Zolden | isn't mapmaking funnier than other things? |
| 17:50.29 | kingTD | my head explodes |
| 17:50.35 | kingTD | from mapping |
| 17:50.48 | kingTD | getting tired of all that headache |
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| 18:09.21 | Bommes | I only get headaches when I have to do shit for university that is completely arbitrary and just wastes my time |
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| 18:53.27 | kingTD | http://www.twitch.tv/duelofchampions |
| 18:53.32 | kingTD | cards games! |
| 19:07.38 | kingTD | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX5-E8djI3s |
| 19:13.44 | G0A | remember to kill all witness :D |
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| 19:38.07 | kingTD | btw anyone played Armies of Exigo? |
| 19:48.54 | Zolden | is it a game or a musical instrument? |
| 19:50.19 | kingTD | game that feels like WC3 remake |
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| 20:04.24 | Ahli | yay, naniwa will play at blizzcon |
| 20:04.43 | Ahli | the swede and the 15 koreans... |
| 20:05.31 | Dustin | we need to ban all koreans from SC2 for a year |
| 20:05.35 | Dustin | Just to see what happens |
| 20:09.43 | Ahli | I expect Idra to make a comeback then ^^ |
| 20:12.32 | Zolden | Dustin alot of koreans will immigrate to other countries |
| 20:12.51 | Zolden | or koreans will only play to each other and will become unbeatable monsters |
| 20:13.13 | Zolden | or they nuke the source of ban |
| 20:13.15 | Dustin | No we will have mouse and keyboard dna testers |
| 20:13.23 | Dustin | If they try, they will be shocked with lethal force |
| 20:13.33 | Zolden | or or alot of suicide will hapen in korea |
| 20:13.45 | Zolden | or koreans will starve since no more prize money will come |
| 20:13.49 | Dustin | I think we need to let the rest of the world catchup and give them some time to learn english if they will be competing in the NA league |
| 20:13.58 | Zolden | lol |
| 20:14.07 | Zolden | korea will declare war to the whole world |
| 20:14.14 | Dustin | lol they prob would |
| 20:14.21 | Zolden | and korean pro players will be the generals |
| 20:14.29 | Zolden | and overmicro everybody |
| 20:14.44 | Dustin | Itll be like enders game on earth with these crazy korean generals lol |
| 20:14.47 | Zolden | then we will have to learn korean |
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| 20:31.01 | tordy | ~ |
| 20:31.54 | tordy | Dustin, Otixa |
| 20:32.02 | Dustin | sup |
| 20:32.11 | Otixa | more than half asleep |
| 20:32.13 | Otixa | go away |
| 20:32.20 | tordy | been a while how's it going |
| 20:32.51 | Dustin | Pretty good! How you been? |
| 20:32.56 | tordy | nm |
| 20:32.59 | Zolden | tordy why u returned |
| 20:33.05 | tordy | just checkin |
| 20:33.20 | tordy | did prem maps ever become reality? |
| 20:33.28 | tordy | or it it even close |
| 20:34.39 | Dustin | lol |
| 20:34.44 | Dustin | Nope and nope |
| 20:35.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster ElectricPrism (~Loren@unaffiliated/electricprism) |
| 20:35.40 | Zolden | what's prem? |
| 20:35.42 | tordy | so any big maps making its way to sc2 ? |
| 20:35.53 | Zolden | i'm working on a big map |
| 20:35.56 | tordy | or is it still same old same old |
| 20:36.05 | Dustin | same old same old |
| 20:36.06 | tordy | since over year ago |
| 20:36.15 | Dustin | MY map is a little bit closer to completion |
| 20:36.16 | Dustin | lol |
| 20:36.30 | Zolden | i'll release mine for beta testing in 1-2 weeks |
| 20:36.35 | Otixa | tordy, I'll be doing a show again ;p |
| 20:37.11 | tordy | i havent played sc2 in a while |
| 20:37.31 | tordy | same stuff on top of the map arcade popularity wise? |
| 20:37.52 | tordy | does blizz still come here? |
| 20:38.20 | Zolden | they were here once during 1/2 years |
| 20:38.28 | Zolden | excuse: intense allstars |
| 20:38.30 | Zolden | work |
| 20:39.48 | tordy | allstars is still not out!? |
| 20:41.48 | Otixa | hnrghhh |
| 20:41.49 | Otixa | tired |
| 20:42.24 | Zolden | hmm? |
| 20:42.31 | Dustin | Allstars is now a standalone |
| 20:42.32 | Zolden | punches Otixa to replace "tired" feeling with pain |
| 20:42.36 | Dustin | and called heroes of the storm |
| 20:42.42 | Otixa | :P |
| 20:42.50 | Otixa | oh yea |
| 20:42.54 | Otixa | dunno if you saw Zolden |
| 20:42.57 | Otixa | i did your title ;p |
| 20:43.31 | Zolden | i have a title? |
| 20:44.02 | Otixa | for the video, you derp |
| 20:44.55 | Zolden | i think i saw the latest version unless you improved it during last 24 hours |
| 20:45.23 | Zolden | btw, kingTD refused to participate and deserved a good punch |
| 20:45.40 | tordy | so what's the mappin community upto these days |
| 20:45.44 | tordy | has it grown much? |
| 20:45.53 | Otixa | yeah, I know |
| 20:45.55 | Otixa | And yeah, I think I improved in the last 24h ;p |
| 20:46.00 | Otixa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gzrKAufEWI&feature=youtu.be |
| 20:46.06 | Otixa | Here's latest anyway |
| 20:48.32 | Dustin | that's sexy guys |
| 20:48.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster Triceron (~Triceron@S0106000c41aae21d.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:48.50 | Tomura | looks nice |
| 20:48.51 | Otixa | ty :> |
| 20:48.56 | Triceron | Ahoy |
| 20:49.07 | Tomura | but the keys end too sudden |
| 20:49.29 | Otixa | yeah, needs more tweaks |
| 20:51.03 | A1win | http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/05/procedural-tech-trees-limit-theory-dev-diary/#more-175244 |
| 20:51.06 | A1win | woah o.o |
| 20:51.11 | ArcanePariah | tordy: It appears that since Blizzard rebooted Titan and reassigned the vast majority of their staff back to other projects, all other Blizzard projects have made fairly good progress, including SC2. IN terms of mapmaking, Blizzard now hosts a weekly workshop, they preview a map they feel is innovative but needs feedback. Blizzard people hosted an arcade night last week, 3 of the community... |
| 20:51.13 | ArcanePariah | ...mods hopped on and played with us. |
| 20:52.06 | ArcanePariah | Also the next patch for SC2 promises to be sizeable, they released a blog stating it would have something for everyone. Even if we ignore the marketspeak, the next patch is going to have a PTR, something only seen last when they did sweeping changes (1.5) |
| 20:52.53 | ArcanePariah | So... TLDR, gotta wait for Blizzcon and 2.1 PTR that will follow |
| 20:53.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836ba0b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.160.182) |
| 20:53.08 | ArcanePariah | Which isn't long, 4 days |
| 20:53.50 | Zolden | Otixa I would say that texts should be prolonged so ppl have time to read |
| 20:54.04 | ArcanePariah | Also, about roughly a month or 2 ago, Blizzard sent out an email to all mapmakers who had their maps featured and asked what they wanted, and their exmaples of wishlist items were things that mapmakers want (server side banks was explicitly given as an example) |
| 20:54.18 | ArcanePariah | So there was a fairly comprehensive list put together |
| 20:54.25 | kingTD | pain is good |
| 20:54.39 | Otixa | reading is for pussies ;p |
| 20:54.47 | Otixa | but yeah, will shorten the transitions |
| 20:54.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (~scraft@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:55.39 | Triceron | what did you respond with to Blizz, ArcanePariah |
| 20:56.00 | ArcanePariah | Well, I didn't have to put anything, everyone else covered what I wanted |
| 20:56.10 | Zolden | hope anyone mentioned to improve terrain deformation |
| 20:56.24 | ArcanePariah | Serverside banks, online campaigns are the main ones for me |
| 20:56.43 | ArcanePariah | With serverside banks, I can jettioson the ugly encrpytion library I'm using |
| 20:57.14 | Triceron | I prolly woulda said wizards |
| 20:57.17 | ArcanePariah | With online campaign, I would make it possible to link NotD 1 to NotD 2, so after people finish the final story, have an option to continue on and play a NotD 2 game |
| 20:57.47 | Triceron | that would be cool |
| 20:57.51 | Triceron | serverside banks are needed |
| 20:58.15 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, and since Blizzard gave them as an explicit exmaple, I have a strong feeling they already have them working, and will release them with 2.1 patch |
| 20:58.36 | ArcanePariah | But just a feeling, gotta wait for 2.1 PTR |
| 20:59.34 | ArcanePariah | Also I want (as does everyone) more editor documentation and feature completion, so many aspects of the editor unused or unknown |
| 20:59.59 | tordy | thanks for the read Otixa |
| 21:00.03 | ArcanePariah | THe biggest thing being, a tutorial/overview of the Actor System |
| 21:00.14 | ArcanePariah | That part is the main thing i think that screws people up |
| 21:00.26 | ArcanePariah | Since the entire system is effectively an abstraction |
| 21:01.22 | Otixa | ;p |
| 21:01.38 | Zolden | ArcanePariah i have this feeling |
| 21:01.40 | Zolden | too |
| 21:03.09 | Zolden | but the best use for server side banks is ai learning from games, getting smarter |
| 21:03.36 | Triceron | yes, the actor system is a pain for most people. |
| 21:03.56 | Triceron | it's tedious :S |
| 21:04.14 | Zolden | i'd say it's great |
| 21:04.25 | Fate_ | http://snag.gy/7uVas.jpg |
| 21:04.29 | Zolden | flexible and powerful |
| 21:04.36 | Triceron | it is flexible and powerful |
| 21:04.38 | Fate_ | do they look okey fow eldar gardists? |
| 21:04.48 | Triceron | but it's also more complicated than it needs to be |
| 21:05.30 | ArcanePariah | Triceron: Somewhat agree, the overused inheritance, so many actors have fields that are borderline unapplicable, and only present because they all inherit from a set few base types |
| 21:05.53 | Triceron | that's why I think a wizard is a must |
| 21:05.55 | Zolden | Triceron it is as complicated as, say, 3d max. Easy to learn, but takes time. |
| 21:06.43 | Triceron | but it's also tedious to copy actors to create new things. It should be a few clicks away from getting the job done. |
| 21:06.48 | ArcanePariah | Triceron: A wizard would be nice, but fundamentally the issue is, it would be entirely worthless for Blizzard to make, since they themselves would nver use it |
| 21:07.11 | ArcanePariah | Well... why are you copying actors lol, the main power is to use parent objects to avoid just that |
| 21:07.37 | DeadZergling | actors, a great reason to learn how to properly duplicate while editing |
| 21:07.44 | Kueken | Fate_: You mean Guardians? |
| 21:08.10 | Fate_ | yep |
| 21:08.11 | Kueken | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/2764205153_0af2cb748a.jpg |
| 21:08.15 | Kueken | okay, I guess :D |
| 21:08.18 | ArcanePariah | Actors: A great reason to use duplicates of base types and inherit from them |
| 21:08.57 | Kueken | thats made from several attachments and texture swaps right? no cutstom model |
| 21:08.57 | Fate_ | not easy to make sth looking good but not looking like a ghost |
| 21:09.00 | Triceron | Well there's also wrong ways to duplicate a new unit |
| 21:09.10 | Kueken | *custom |
| 21:09.27 | Fate_ | the head is an imported maraudar helmet |
| 21:09.32 | Fate_ | skalled |
| 21:09.53 | Kueken | i c |
| 21:10.00 | Kueken | and marauder armor? |
| 21:10.04 | Kueken | or firebat |
| 21:10.16 | ArcanePariah | The entire data module was definitely designed by someone with a strong CS background and thus makes sense to programmers/CS people, but that alos makes it vastly harder for non software people, software concepts already being hard for most people to grasp |
| 21:10.25 | Fate_ | hm would look to heavy i think |
| 21:10.39 | Zolden | what's CS? |
| 21:10.45 | Kueken | I am asking if you are using it |
| 21:10.51 | Kueken | not suggesting to use it |
| 21:10.56 | Fate_ | ah no |
| 21:11.01 | Kueken | he looks like he has some sort of attached armor |
| 21:11.09 | ArcanePariah | CS = Computer SCience |
| 21:11.10 | Zolden | ArcanePariah the whole editor thing is just a heaven for a programmer, but a hell for non-programmer |
| 21:11.20 | Fate_ | its the normal ghost model |
| 21:11.38 | Kueken | but that could be the texture that pronounces the proportions differently |
| 21:11.53 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, explains why I have so much fun in it, it all makes sense ot me, and feels relatively effortless to use |
| 21:12.08 | Fate_ | yeah its the zealot diff |
| 21:12.09 | Triceron | exactly that. I really don't think in CS terms, I visuallize things I want made. It's not easy for someone like me to get stuff done in data unless I know whate very parameter does |
| 21:12.44 | Kueken | data is endless trial and error |
| 21:12.59 | ArcanePariah | Nah |
| 21:13.00 | ArcanePariah | Well |
| 21:13.01 | Triceron | and even when I do know, it becomes tedious to change because a lot of different parameters are found in so many different places. I feel like it could be better organized and simplified |
| 21:13.18 | Triceron | especially if there's something simple I want done |
| 21:13.19 | Fate_ | i thougt about using the maraudar armor and the ghost model for a space marine melle hero, but it has no attachment points on the hands |
| 21:13.24 | ArcanePariah | Triceron: Perhaps, but the editor is the epitome of modularization, each section doing one thing and one thing well |
| 21:13.52 | ArcanePariah | Combining fields into larger objects = bad juju from a CS point of view |
| 21:13.53 | tordy | can i see that list arcanepariah? |
| 21:14.03 | Triceron | I mean I'll always bring it back to comparing it to Warcraft 3's editor, which was perfect for 'getting the job done'. I'm not saying go back to a simplified version of SC2, but rather to implement a system to make it simple for noobs like me |
| 21:15.08 | tordy | server-side banks would be my #1 feature for mapmakers as well |
| 21:15.37 | tordy | global banks would be #2 |
| 21:16.00 | ArcanePariah | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/56568-msg-from-blizzard/?post=90 |
| 21:16.17 | ArcanePariah | A list combining all the stuff people asked for in that thread |
| 21:16.31 | tordy | been clamoring for it since i first got into sc2 map making in mid-2010 |
| 21:16.55 | Triceron | I've replied in that thread asking for wizards :P |
| 21:17.08 | ArcanePariah | Yes, most have, but... Blizzard basically either didn't care, or flat out didn't have the resouces at the time, because of Titan |
| 21:17.30 | ArcanePariah | More inclined to believe the latter, 100 people working on 1 game is considerable |
| 21:17.47 | Triceron | is it not possible for 3rd party support for a wizard tool for the editor? |
| 21:17.58 | ArcanePariah | Plus it appears SC2 development was put on hold for Heroes of the Storm |
| 21:18.20 | ArcanePariah | Triceron: Yes, easily, since all the data is flat xml files, you could create a GUI wizard to write out the XML and then copy paste it over |
| 21:18.36 | Triceron | I wouldn't doubt it, they need a lot of heroes for that game if they're going to actually compete against the other MOBAs |
| 21:18.41 | Fate_ | no info about the lobby staus of a open game in the list? |
| 21:19.02 | ArcanePariah | But given the level of proficiency of most mapmakers, none of them had the wherewithall to write a cross platform tool that would have to include support for all the basic modules |
| 21:19.24 | ArcanePariah | IN effect, you would have to create a GUI wizard for like 10 parts of the data editor |
| 21:19.39 | Triceron | that is if you want to cover all aspects of the editor, right? |
| 21:19.44 | ArcanePariah | No |
| 21:19.49 | ArcanePariah | Just to make a basic unit |
| 21:19.56 | ArcanePariah | requires that many sections |
| 21:20.20 | ArcanePariah | You have: Abilites, Models, Actors, Sounds, Unit, Behaviors, Weapons, Buttons |
| 21:20.34 | ArcanePariah | Effects |
| 21:20.48 | Triceron | so basically it would be more efficient to just use the system that's in place right now? |
| 21:21.03 | ArcanePariah | If you want RPG, now you need more behaviors, and items/item containers/item classes |
| 21:21.06 | ArcanePariah | Yeah |
| 21:21.47 | ArcanePariah | Basically WC3 worked because people didn't actually change much, you modded existing stuff, but you were mostly bound by how WC3 did things (except those who did convoluted JASS coding), in SC2 EVERYTHING is exposed |
| 21:22.04 | ArcanePariah | So its a wealth of flexibility/power, but overwhelming to most |
| 21:22.48 | ArcanePariah | Now, the detail view in the editor organizes things well, and in a logical way, however its performance blows, so its painful to use |
| 21:22.53 | Triceron | but that also means exactly what you meant above. To create any basic unit, you need to apply all the above. There is no way to just 'make a new unit' if thats all you're looking to do. |
| 21:23.02 | ArcanePariah | Correct |
| 21:23.26 | Triceron | the editor has nothing to ease you into it |
| 21:23.39 | ArcanePariah | Well, there is a basic field thingy, but its worthless |
| 21:23.44 | Triceron | exactly |
| 21:23.49 | Triceron | the basic field is a limitation |
| 21:23.55 | Triceron | rather than simplification |
| 21:24.00 | ArcanePariah | But yeah, there is no real guide to how the overall editor works |
| 21:24.18 | Triceron | I've had it on basic mode and it just hid all the parameters I was actually looking for. |
| 21:25.08 | ArcanePariah | You basically have to treat it like any other high level pro software, (Photoshop, 3dsmax, Office, Autocad, Visual Studio, etc.) IN that they are enormously powerful and thus come with a massive learning curve |
| 21:25.40 | ArcanePariah | I assume it took a fair amount of time for you to learn 3ds max to achieve things in a comfortable manner |
| 21:26.04 | Triceron | but i'd prefer if there were something that highlighted/prioritized the necessaries and left out the optionals. I know I'm being vague, but essentially what i'm saying is 'copy War3'. |
| 21:26.25 | ArcanePariah | Which is tricky, since... define "Optional". |
| 21:26.31 | Triceron | I still don't really know 3dsmax |
| 21:26.39 | Triceron | I just know what I need |
| 21:26.53 | ArcanePariah | Even if I wanted too, the unit fields I could barely stripe down since there is a ton of stuff I would consider essential |
| 21:26.55 | Triceron | and that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge of the Data editor |
| 21:27.09 | Triceron | I know enough to create a unit that I can use to test models :/ |
| 21:27.41 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, and also since the inheritance abstracts so much away, it becomes difficult to understand what is actually happening at times |
| 21:27.44 | Triceron | and that takes about 10 steps too many. |
| 21:28.16 | Triceron | to do a model swap I literally have to copy everything and rename everything |
| 21:28.25 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, basically, the problem is, Blizzard did not create enough templates to explain what is going on, so people are doing ugly hacks |
| 21:28.29 | sc2println | Hmm, only if you want a new model |
| 21:28.33 | Triceron | either that, or do the lazy thing and model swap existing units. |
| 21:28.43 | Triceron | but I have like... 30 models to test |
| 21:29.12 | Triceron | I mean I know that's also an issue that only affects me |
| 21:29.14 | sc2println | you can also just edit an existing "model" in the data editor |
| 21:29.18 | ArcanePariah | I'm going to bet their is a faster way to do things. One little unkown thing people rarely use is the Tokens, which basically allow you to program the data editor itself |
| 21:29.27 | Triceron | yeah, that's what I do for quick testing |
| 21:29.39 | sc2println | For quick testing the cutscene editor is super |
| 21:29.41 | ArcanePariah | You can create variables for any data objects, and thus can much more easily create stuff from templates |
| 21:29.57 | sc2println | I love expecially the automatical reload |
| 21:30.33 | sc2println | e.g. you hit export click on the cutscene editor window and bam you see a preview of your model how it looks ingame |
| 21:30.37 | Triceron | I can create stuff from templates, but it usually requires renaming at least 5 different things |
| 21:30.41 | ArcanePariah | That's the other thing, to make sure everything was nice, Blizzaard included an insane amount of artistic tools and control, far beyond what most use (Lighting/Sound/Modeling) |
| 21:30.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken1 (~Kueken@brsg-4dbbed6b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:30.57 | Triceron | I don't see why something like that can't be automated |
| 21:31.04 | Triceron | or if it is, and I'm just doing it wrong |
| 21:31.07 | ArcanePariah | Well... use tokens |
| 21:31.10 | ArcanePariah | and change the token |
| 21:31.13 | ArcanePariah | and be done |
| 21:31.19 | ArcanePariah | Like for example, see the Unit actor |
| 21:31.22 | ArcanePariah | the base one |
| 21:31.26 | DeadZergling | that part about data annoys me a lot, the mass inheritance |
| 21:31.27 | ArcanePariah | it has a token linked to like 30 fields |
| 21:31.40 | DeadZergling | I know it is a good thing, but looking at the raw XML |
| 21:31.42 | ArcanePariah | So to change the unit actor to another unit takes 1 change, not 30 |
| 21:31.52 | Triceron | Tokens, you've just listed something I've never heard of before which sounds like something I could have used from the beginning :P |
| 21:31.58 | DeadZergling | you miss out on a whole lot, lol |
| 21:32.26 | DeadZergling | makes it very difficult to do any data work outside the editor |
| 21:32.31 | ArcanePariah | Tokens allow you to define variables for data objects. If you want an example that works well, look at the Unit Actor |
| 21:32.35 | ArcanePariah | in the Core Mod |
| 21:32.43 | ArcanePariah | Namely, look at the XML |
| 21:32.50 | ArcanePariah | you will notice a token defined |
| 21:33.04 | ArcanePariah | and then the name of that token all over the objects, enclosed in ## ## |
| 21:33.37 | ArcanePariah | Basically tokens = variables in the data editor |
| 21:33.45 | ArcanePariah | so inherited objects can then assign them |
| 21:34.32 | ArcanePariah | Which is yet another CS thing, most CS is about abstraction, reducing things to the simplest common form |
| 21:37.03 | Triceron | which would be great if all those forms were properly explained :P |
| 21:37.09 | ArcanePariah | Mmhmm |
| 21:38.19 | DeadZergling | uhoh, another wish we could return to the glory days of War3 editor discussion? |
| 21:53.59 | Zolden | Triceron how's the demon doing? |
| 21:56.49 | Otixa | mmmmm... |
| 21:56.56 | Otixa | 15yo scotch |
| 21:59.35 | Dustin | speaking of, maybe its rum time... |
| 22:00.47 | Fate_ | kueken can i change the texture of the hydrslisk missle model? |
| 22:00.50 | Otixa | smacks Dustin in the head with his glass |
| 22:00.50 | Otixa | Cheers ;p |
| 22:01.46 | Dustin | hehe |
| 22:05.54 | Triceron | I got the basic colors in |
| 22:06.00 | Bommes | Fate_: the hydralisk missile model should be just an actor somewhere, so you can use the texture select by id method on actor creation to change the texture |
| 22:06.00 | Triceron | messing around with the shaders to get it looking shiny |
| 22:06.12 | Bommes | it's a missile type actor |
| 22:06.22 | Fate_ | yeah but the thing is |
| 22:07.05 | Fate_ | in the materials of the models are not the typical diffuse, emissive, specular textures listet |
| 22:07.09 | Fate_ | *listed |
| 22:07.34 | Bommes | some models just have diffuse |
| 22:07.46 | Zolden | Fate_ are you kidding? it's nothing |
| 22:07.52 | Zolden | just a stick |
| 22:07.55 | Zolden | thin stick |
| 22:08.04 | Bommes | yeah it just has a diffuse texture |
| 22:08.04 | Zolden | what texturea re you talking about |
| 22:08.07 | Fate_ | i want it to shine^^ |
| 22:08.09 | Bommes | called zergbone1.dds |
| 22:08.27 | Zolden | Fate_ you have alot of shiny projectiles in your game |
| 22:09.03 | Zolden | actually, just use tint color with high hdr |
| 22:09.22 | Fate_ | yeah im trying sth like that atm |
| 22:09.48 | Bommes | Zolden, me? |
| 22:09.58 | Kueken | Fate_: yes, you can! |
| 22:10.03 | Bommes | Fate said the thing has no texture, but it has a diffuse texture called zergbone1.dds |
| 22:10.23 | Bommes | that's what I was talking about |
| 22:11.24 | DeadZergling | Zolden, I forced myself to make one whole ability last night |
| 22:11.39 | DeadZergling | Just playing games all night really cuts into your editing time though... |
| 22:11.57 | Fate_ | i didnt say its not a texture |
| 22:12.18 | Fate_ | i said there are not the typical textures in the list |
| 22:12.36 | Kueken | its not called _diffuse, but that doesn't matter at all |
| 22:12.42 | Kueken | if it has a name, you can swap it |
| 22:12.51 | Fate_ | okey then |
| 22:13.32 | Kueken | and to make missiles more shiny, you can always attach shiny stuff :D |
| 22:13.57 | Bommes | like a siege tank? |
| 22:14.46 | DeadZergling | shooting units at other units, never loses its charm really |
| 22:14.48 | Zolden | Bommes i was talking to fate |
| 22:15.05 | Zolden | DeadZergling i don't get it, guys, how can playing bring more fun than mapmaking |
| 22:15.17 | Zolden | especially when you're talking about making abils |
| 22:15.42 | Fate_ | well i want the missle to shine without attaching sth, there will be much missles of that on the map in the same time |
| 22:15.53 | DeadZergling | well when the bulk of what I have to do is stuff I already know how to do |
| 22:15.59 | DeadZergling | it is far less exciting |
| 22:16.25 | Zolden | like playing is not something you already know how to do |
| 22:17.03 | DeadZergling | is funner than editing that 100th, or 1000th item |
| 22:17.34 | Zolden | douing it being stoned is even more funnier |
| 22:22.57 | Zandose | im getting all players camera pitch and yaw and using a wait of 0.01 game time, is this too fast for the network traffic? |
| 22:26.12 | DeadZergling | little pointless to go faster than .0625 |
| 22:26.37 | DeadZergling | think that was the network update period |
| 22:26.50 | Zandose | k |
| 22:29.18 | Zandose | what beam model is used for the sniper laser / beam of light? i tried the sniper beams but their not visible enough |
| 22:29.40 | Zolden | try the defence drone one |
| 22:29.54 | Fate_ | u mean the normal sniper beam? |
| 22:30.03 | Fate_ | try to change the animation |
| 22:30.04 | Zandose | i suppose so |
| 22:30.48 | Fate_ | the custom animation is hardly visible |
| 22:31.13 | Fate_ | when i used it i had to change it too |
| 22:33.58 | Zandose | how did you change the animation? |
| 22:34.21 | Fate_ | let me see |
| 22:35.38 | Zandose | is the snipe beam a steam of energy or a constand tube like beam? |
| 22:35.45 | Fate_ | actor events |
| 22:36.16 | Fate_ | FeldSniper Rilfe Strahl |
| 22:36.16 | Fate_ | (Einfach) Ereignis: Ereignis 3 +ActorCreation:AnimBracketStart 1 Birth Stand |
| 22:36.29 | Fate_ | ah it copys the german^^ |
| 22:36.41 | Fate_ | ctorCreation:AnimBracketStart 1 Birth Stand |
| 22:36.46 | Fate_ | ahhh |
| 22:37.10 | Fate_ | ActorCreation:AnimBracketStart 1 Birth Stand -- this is what u need :9 |
| 22:38.37 | Fate_ | http://snag.gy/2oJPZ.jpg my beam actor events look like this |
| 22:38.58 | Fate_ | for the sniper beam |
| 22:38.59 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.82.7.75.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 22:39.39 | Zandose | their is no stand animation on the model itself |
| 22:40.45 | Fate_ | the birth animation is importain |
| 22:40.47 | Fate_ | t |
| 22:41.22 | Fate_ | stand is not needed as u noticed |
| 22:44.53 | Zandose | is there a better model for stright laser beam? |
| 22:46.16 | Fate_ | if u want a laser u can use the one zolden spoke about |
| 22:47.16 | Fate_ | http://abload.de/img/screenshot2013-04-0925jue8.jpg |
| 22:47.30 | Fate_ | the red one in this pci is the defance drone one |
| 22:48.20 | Zandose | lovely |
| 22:49.38 | Zandose | are their any models of a gun? |
| 22:50.04 | Fate_ | what like? |
| 22:50.13 | Zandose | any type of handgun |
| 22:50.39 | Fate_ | i imported a set kueken showed me for that |
| 22:50.56 | Zandose | im just sticking to models in the game for now |
| 22:51.00 | Fate_ | i look if i find it it should be on mapster |
| 22:51.11 | Fate_ | well then no if i am right |
| 22:51.18 | Zandose | k |
| 22:51.23 | Zandose | ill use a dummy model for now |
| 22:51.31 | Fate_ | but importing small models like that is not a big dead |
| 22:57.47 | Zandose | if you wanted to move a unit between two points but you always wanted it to take only one second so you change the movement speed of the unit but how do you calculate the movement speed? |
| 23:01.39 | grim001 | damn dropbox... won't even connect right now. |
| 23:05.42 | Kueken | Zandose: movespeed = distance per second |
| 23:06.19 | Kueken | so you get the distance between the 2 points and 1/distance will be your movespeed |
| 23:06.20 | Zandose | anyone know which data settings on the camera will change how often the cameras yaw and pitch is updated, or the amount you have to move the yaw or pitch to get it to update |
| 23:06.50 | Zandose | hmm |
| 23:07.29 | Zandose | but a distance of 2 is 1/2=0.5 and therefore the unit would not make it there |
| 23:12.40 | Zandose | i tried "Func.DistanceBetweenPoints3D(Beam.Offset_Last, Beam.Offset_Current)" which should return the distance between the two points and the distance could be used as the actual movment speed. |
| 23:15.46 | Zandose | i just want the beams to move to the cameras yaw/pitch and make it look smooth |
| 23:20.59 | Fate_ | http://snag.gy/u71Rg.jpg my gardists now look like this |
| 23:21.20 | Zandose | shiny |
| 23:22.36 | Kueken | Zandose: you are right, of course |
| 23:22.47 | Kueken | speed = distance, not 1/distance |
| 23:22.49 | Zandose | feels all warm inside |
| 23:23.16 | Zandose | now i shall get back to my importent work |
| 23:23.32 | Zandose | smashes head again desk in a attempt to get it to work |
| 23:23.37 | Zandose | against |
| 23:24.42 | Zandose | point offset towards point with a distance of speed * time |
| 23:24.47 | Kueken | Fate_: the naming confuses me. "Gardist" makes me think of "Guardsmen" from IG and not "Guardians" from eldar |
| 23:25.07 | Kueken | never played the german version, but I assume the Guardians are called Gardist there :) |
| 23:25.08 | Zandose | tpying stuff out really helps |
| 23:25.35 | Fate_ | yeah there Gardists in the german version |
| 23:26.38 | Kueken | anyway, g2g |
| 23:26.41 | Kueken | good night |
| 23:53.54 | Zandose | anyknow how how gax3 makes beams? |
| 23:54.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtschutter (~rtschutte@ip174-68-90-32.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 23:56.12 | rtschutter | Hey everyone! Has anyone run into this error when trying to publish a mod file? "Default attribute values could not be validated" |
