| 00:00.07 | MoonEater | and shes going to put it on youtube for mapsters |
| 00:00.17 | MoonEater | first tutorial is a ban and kick system for dummies |
| 00:00.55 | MoonEater | for mapsters |
| 00:02.48 | Stewox | how do I set the background, |
| 00:02.52 | Stewox | like some planet and stars |
| 00:03.07 | MoonEater | theres somthing on mapsters forum about it |
| 00:03.15 | MoonEater | u can also make a dodad |
| 00:03.21 | Triceron | oh nice |
| 00:04.59 | MoonEater | now i forgot were jade said the cursor splat was |
| 00:19.48 | MoonEater | JAde |
| 00:31.04 | Triceron | wewt, got a new model rigged up. Just need to clean it up like mad |
| 00:31.34 | MoonEater | u know |
| 00:31.38 | MoonEater | were the cusor splat is |
| 00:36.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@ip-77-25-179-222.web.vodafone.de) |
| 01:02.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 01:03.18 | MoonEater | why doesnt my move ability work |
| 01:03.20 | MoonEater | :/ |
| 01:03.23 | MoonEater | frustrating |
| 01:05.43 | MoonEater | i feel asad's pain |
| 01:08.12 | MoonEater | oh wow |
| 01:08.25 | MoonEater | there can be only one move ability per unit?!? |
| 01:09.20 | MoonEater | A1win |
| 01:09.23 | MoonEater | Dustin |
| 01:09.33 | MoonEater | Vailreth |
| 01:14.18 | Vailreth | yes |
| 01:14.30 | MoonEater | only one move ability per unit? |
| 01:14.39 | Vailreth | why would you need more than one move ability? |
| 01:14.55 | MoonEater | to adjust the size of the UI-Order |
| 01:15.03 | MoonEater | i playing with cameras |
| 01:15.13 | MoonEater | to make areas appear larger by zooming in |
| 01:15.25 | Vailreth | but yes you can only have one move ability per unit |
| 01:15.34 | Vailreth | and one attack |
| 01:15.39 | MoonEater | anyway to fix this? |
| 01:15.47 | Vailreth | no |
| 01:15.50 | MoonEater | i just need the cursor to shrink |
| 01:15.55 | MoonEater | anyway to work around it? |
| 01:16.08 | Vailreth | not use two move abilities on a unit |
| 01:16.19 | MoonEater | ok |
| 01:16.40 | MoonEater | so that means im stuck with a larger cursor splat moddel or a reall tiny one |
| 01:16.47 | MoonEater | any way to not do it that way? |
| 01:17.02 | Vailreth | no clue ive never tryed what you are doing |
| 01:17.16 | MoonEater | couldnt i disable abilities? |
| 01:17.22 | MoonEater | swap them out? |
| 01:17.41 | Vailreth | you may be able to disable them |
| 01:19.23 | MoonEater | disabling them via behavior didnt work.... |
| 01:19.53 | Vailreth | hm |
| 01:20.24 | Vailreth | the engine really isnt designed to have units with more than one of a type of ability |
| 01:20.29 | Vailreth | like that |
| 01:22.16 | MoonEater | thats fine i only need it to have 1 at any given time |
| 01:22.32 | MoonEater | trying it via triggers |
| 01:22.48 | MoonEater | nope |
| 01:23.28 | MoonEater | is there a way to reduce model size for unit's ability |
| 01:23.31 | MoonEater | the order? |
| 01:24.45 | MoonEater | Vailreth |
| 01:25.21 | Vailreth | i dont know ive never had to try |
| 01:29.06 | MoonEater | oh ya |
| 01:29.10 | MoonEater | oh well |
| 01:29.51 | MoonEater | Vailreth is it possible to switch out the models? |
| 01:30.29 | Vailreth | probably, but i can not say for sure |
| 01:44.33 | MoonEater | Vailreth, know any good models for a computer or console? |
| 01:45.03 | Vailreth | sorry not off the top of my head and i am getting ready to have to go |
| 01:45.39 | Stewox | anyone a modeller here ? |
| 01:46.09 | Stewox | 3ds max for sc2 |
| 01:48.04 | MoonEater | Zolden but hes unavailabel |
| 02:21.14 | Triceron | not for 3DS max |
| 02:23.54 | Lepton | JademusSreg, remember we talked about hiding the chat but allowing PMs to be seen? |
| 02:24.33 | Lepton | i looked into it for a while and rly cant figure out how to do it |
| 02:24.44 | Lepton | im starting to think it might just not be possible |
| 02:28.22 | Lepton | stewox, do you have the .dds plugin ? |
| 02:28.41 | Lepton | cause its hard to find one that works with current version |
| 02:29.09 | Stewox | no im trying to do a new model with the newly released sc2 art tools |
| 02:30.07 | Stewox | i think there is a DDS tutorial for SC2 which i have used to make button images for SC2 with photoshop and nvidia dds plugin but that's about it |
| 02:30.25 | Stewox | em |
| 02:30.33 | Stewox | you're not supposed to use the current version |
| 02:30.38 | Stewox | 2011 is the one to use |
| 02:31.04 | Stewox | and that probably will never change at blizzard either |
| 02:31.51 | Stewox | unless they switch for LotV |
| 02:43.37 | ArcanePariah | Moon, what are you trying to resize? |
| 02:45.50 | MoonEater | I AM SUMMONED |
| 02:46.01 | MoonEater | ya |
| 02:46.05 | MoonEater | the ping on the map |
| 02:49.48 | ArcanePariah | Hmm? Explain |
| 02:54.05 | Stewox | is there a modeller in this chat ? |
| 02:54.07 | Stewox | 3ds max |
| 03:03.42 | DearLeader | Someone should make a survival mode twinstick shooter in the map editor. |
| 03:38.14 | MoonEater | hey |
| 03:39.27 | Triceron | Ahoy |
| 03:43.31 | MoonEater | i cant seem to 1/2 attack range |
| 03:54.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster egod (461eb92a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.30.185.42) |
| 03:54.30 | egod | how my map can be playable with the starter edition ? |
| 03:54.35 | egod | is that a option? |
| 04:50.36 | Lepton | Stewox, theres a newly released sc2 art tool? |
| 04:50.45 | Stewox | mhm |
| 04:50.54 | Stewox | plugins for 3ds max |
| 04:51.10 | Lepton | yeahh |
| 04:51.14 | Lepton | i could never make them work |
| 04:51.26 | Stewox | tons of exmaples |
| 04:51.27 | Lepton | even when installing old version of 3ds |
| 04:51.33 | Stewox | it's 150 mb |
| 04:51.45 | Lepton | what are we talking about |
| 04:51.48 | Lepton | the plugin? |
| 04:51.51 | Stewox | i have it running right now, not sure what you're talking about |
| 04:51.52 | Lepton | 150 mg plugin? |
| 04:52.00 | Lepton | yea im probly just bad |
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| 06:05.47 | JademusSreg | Zoop. |
| 06:05.56 | Bommes | wazzaaaaaaaaaap |
| 06:06.47 | ArcanePariah | Sup jade, perfect timing |
| 06:07.28 | ArcanePariah | Having an issue with a unit actor, namely, I have set the Unit Birth Sound, however I am creating the unit via a Create Unit effect, and although I have Birth flag set in it, the sound does not play when the unit is created |
| 06:08.49 | ArcanePariah | Do I need to use the Placement sound instead? |
| 06:09.16 | ArcanePariah | Although that I think is for when placing the unit for like warp ins and buildings |
| 06:10.04 | JademusSreg | Paste XML for the actors and sound data; I'll take a look. |
| 06:11.41 | ArcanePariah | XML for the Unit Actor: http://pastebin.com/Wnwxb2Rq |
| 06:12.34 | ArcanePariah | XML for the linked sound: http://pastebin.com/NK5xk4d1 |
| 06:13.33 | ArcanePariah | I'm going to try setting the Placement sound because the Create Effect also a Placement Flag thats set |
| 06:15.24 | ArcanePariah | Also, my next question is: How do you set the soundtracks that play in a map, without using triggers. Left to its own devices, the game auto plays the race specific intros/ambients/etc. which I have seen in the Game UI or Gameplay Data, but altering them did nothing before |
| 06:15.52 | JademusSreg | You only want it to play the road flare sound for the owner? |
| 06:16.30 | JademusSreg | For Photon Cycles, I simply hijacked the racial soundtrack data, refering to my imported sounds instead. |
| 06:16.50 | ArcanePariah | Ahh I see |
| 06:17.31 | ArcanePariah | And the roadflare sound for everyone, before it was a seperate actor, a sound oneshot deal, I thought I could remove that and use the unit birth sound, but apparently that isn't working |
| 06:18.02 | JademusSreg | Yeah, those sounds are local, so the previous setup was preferable. |
| 06:18.14 | ArcanePariah | Ok, all good |
| 06:19.49 | ArcanePariah | Now, a design question, should I have actors related to the same event all have separate events to create them (In this case, when a unit is born, I have 1 Unit Actor, 1 Model Actor and 1 Sound actor created), or have only 1 actor be created off the inital event and that actor send create messages to create the other actors |
| 06:20.25 | ArcanePariah | So for this case, should I place Unit Birth events in all 3 actors, or just have the unit birth create the unit actor, then have that actor on creation create the other 2 |
| 06:20.47 | JademusSreg | If they are logically contingent upon one, makes sense for the unit to use its events to create the others. |
| 06:20.57 | ArcanePariah | Ok |
| 06:21.43 | JademusSreg | Especially when it comes to model actors, since AttachModelOffset is so damn useful. |
| 06:32.25 | ArcanePariah | Ok, next question, this relates to dialogs. How does one manipulate the size of the unit status dialog? |
| 06:32.35 | ArcanePariah | dialog item* |
| 06:32.57 | Bommes | "CustomPlayerEnergyBarWater" There is too much food in my names for UI objects... |
| 06:33.13 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 06:33.25 | ArcanePariah | Sounds like you are hungry when you are mapmaking |
| 06:33.26 | JademusSreg | HAh. |
| 06:34.31 | JademusSreg | Anyway, often one makes a custom layout frame for the unit status and templates/hooks it. |
| 06:34.57 | Bommes | yeah I did, but you still have to give the template a name right? |
| 06:35.00 | JademusSreg | Like how they handled Kerrigan's / hero status frames in the HotS campaign. |
| 06:35.11 | ArcanePariah | Ok, where in the UI editor is the frame I need to manipulate? |
| 06:35.13 | Bommes | on another note, I should clearly become a water drop artist https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9962/drop.png |
| 06:35.26 | ArcanePariah | Oh ok, so in other words, take a look at HotS campaign |
| 06:35.28 | Bommes | oh it was a question from Pariah, nevermind :D |
| 06:35.30 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 06:35.42 | ArcanePariah | Okie dokie |
| 06:35.57 | JademusSreg | It would be exhausting actually describing the implementation. |
| 06:37.10 | ArcanePariah | Yes, I have unit health bars in my game, but they were done in a roundabout manner, using dialogs and images and a constantly running thread updating them, I assumed there HAD to be a better way then that |
| 06:37.11 | Bommes | ArcanePariah: Are you talking about a unit status dialog in terms of a custom status bar that hooks directly on top of the unit, or a dialog item that is independent from the unit? |
| 06:37.33 | ArcanePariah | Dialog item, independent of the unit, where you can assign a unit to the dialog item |
| 06:38.16 | ArcanePariah | I've created one, know how to do that, but when I attempted to use the trigger actions to alter its size, nothing happened, so I assumed it was in the UI editor for changing that somehow |
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| 07:20.17 | Kueken | Shark |
| 07:20.52 | JademusSreg | Bruce. |
| 07:21.10 | Bommes | Guten Morgen. |
| 07:31.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster RiFT (cc0f1db0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.15.29.176) |
| 07:33.27 | RiFT | So, while I enjoy the "Remember Previous Documents" option, I always fail to load dependencies for all documents open upon startup despite logging in for them. Is there a solution for this? |
| 07:37.34 | JademusSreg | That's odd. |
| 07:37.53 | JademusSreg | Also, sounds familiar. |
| 07:39.10 | JademusSreg | Personally, I don't use that option, as I prefer to load the editor blank. Does it load them correctly otherwise? |
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| 07:48.19 | Bommes | one song in the Half Life 2 OST is called "Eine Kleiner Elevatormuzik" lol |
| 07:48.33 | Bommes | what an edgy name in broken german |
| 07:49.17 | RiFT | it loads them correctly if the only use default dependencies but if the reference anything i need to log in for it breaks even if i log in =_= |
| 07:49.37 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
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| 07:50.47 | JademusSreg | How does it behave if you launch from the document rather than from the application? |
| 07:51.55 | JademusSreg | (Or similarly launch the editor with the document as a parameter.) |
| 07:52.05 | JademusSreg | *argument |
| 07:52.28 | RiFT | uh let me test? |
| 07:53.01 | ArcanePariah | Well Jade, it appears Blizzard did things no different then me, just with a whole lot more finesse and variables, but otherwise they are also just using an image dialog and updating its size |
| 07:54.27 | JademusSreg | Arc, are you refering to the hero unit status frame or the hero display frame? |
| 07:55.04 | ArcanePariah | I am referring to the frame in the top left during missions |
| 07:55.10 | RiFT | Nope, same issue "Dependency data could not be loaded" |
| 07:55.25 | ArcanePariah | That frame is simply updated every 0.25 seconds |
| 07:55.26 | JademusSreg | In that case, yes, Arc. I thought you meant the one on the unit, haha. |
| 07:56.08 | ArcanePariah | No lol, i was trying to use the Unit Status dialog item, it appears even Blizzard didn't bothering using it, they also just resize the image for the HP bar to the % of the unit HP |
| 07:56.21 | JademusSreg | Rift, double-odd. And the document definitely loads the dependency correctly if that option is disabled and the map is loaded manually? |
| 07:56.27 | ArcanePariah | And have it on a periodic trigger |
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| 07:56.39 | JademusSreg | Arc, it -might- be possible ot use the unit status frame. |
| 07:56.41 | JademusSreg | *to |
| 07:57.02 | RiFT | I opened the document directly and is the only thing open in the editor so idk |
| 07:57.33 | RiFT | It isn't loading the dependencies either way, I'll retest with that off |
| 07:57.59 | JademusSreg | This is speculative on my part, but if you make the unit status frame appear only in a predefined position and force visibility, it may work. |
| 07:59.12 | JademusSreg | Gotta check my references, but there should be an element for defining where it should appear, the way tooltips can be made to appear in a static position rather than offset of the element to which they apply. |
| 08:00.32 | RiFT | =/ The only way I have found to consistently get dependencies to load is to open up file->dependencies open the specific one and make sure the green bar loads there and then restart the document |
| 08:01.22 | RiFT | Which is a major pain and I was kinda hoping someone at sc2mapster knew a better way >.> |
| 08:02.55 | JademusSreg | I wonder, perhaps the reference is outdated. |
| 08:03.20 | RiFT | It's latest version though |
| 08:04.03 | ArcanePariah | Jade, I can move the dialog item around, i just have issues resizing it |
| 08:05.09 | JademusSreg | Rift, can't speculate further without more information. Though could google site:sc2mapster.com dependency could not be loaded |
| 08:06.17 | JademusSreg | Arc, no worries. After you resize it, use Ctrl Alt F12 in game to pull up the UI editor shit, find the frame. |
| 08:06.20 | RiFT | Is that better than using the sc2mapster search? >.> |
| 08:06.33 | JademusSreg | Rift, anything is better than using mapster search. |
| 08:06.58 | RiFT | Reddit search? |
| 08:07.47 | JademusSreg | While google site search only works for pages it has indexed, of course, google's magical algorithm gnomes are far better than curse's. |
| 08:09.09 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 08:13.59 | Bommes | ArcanePariah: I'm still trying to figure out how to use the UnitStatusDurationBar, if you find a way let me know |
| 08:14.13 | ArcanePariah | Will do |
| 08:14.14 | Bommes | because I went the same way and tried to use the new UnitStatus stuff but then discovered that even Blizzard uses just resized images |
| 08:14.25 | Bommes | and I tried to make them work as Dialog Items independent from units |
| 08:14.27 | ArcanePariah | Mmhmm |
| 08:14.34 | Bommes | but nothing worked so far |
| 08:14.43 | RiFT | So it looks like all the people who posted about the problem were uploading maps wwwwwwwith references to local files, but I'm not doing that sooo >.> |
| 08:15.08 | Bommes | and thats not big deal for Health or Energy Bars for me, but this DurationBar thing would be really useful for me, I just don't know a way to use it |
| 08:15.39 | ArcanePariah | I can only assume the unitstatus dialog items are very recent additions to the editor, since they were not present for usage during the development of HotS. One could theorize that due to approach blizzard had to use for the campaign, they realized they needed a native dialog type |
| 08:15.55 | ArcanePariah | for unit related functions, like status bars |
| 08:16.16 | Bommes | very possible, since also some things are missing like an independent Shield Status Bar |
| 08:16.29 | Bommes | still, there are functions in the API that link to the Duration Bar |
| 08:16.33 | Bommes | like Set Dialog Item Behavior |
| 08:16.57 | Bommes | so maybe there is a way to use it somehow that I just can't figure out because I'm an idiot :D |
| 08:25.03 | ArcanePariah | Son of a... Jade, figured out the damm self cast deal, they dont show in the hotkeys in the UI because the damm things don't have text defined for them. If you look in Game UI, under Hotkey Info, you will see Command Button Self 1 through 14... |
| 08:25.19 | ArcanePariah | The default has them frigging blank |
| 08:25.48 | JademusSreg | Yep. |
| 08:25.56 | JademusSreg | I reported that several days ago. |
| 08:26.04 | JademusSreg | But they don't display anyway. |
| 08:26.20 | JademusSreg | I assigned them values to see if it would have an effect. |
| 08:27.09 | ArcanePariah | You almost certainly have to use the Grid Hotkey layout |
| 08:27.14 | JademusSreg | I did. =D |
| 08:27.21 | ArcanePariah | Da hell? |
| 08:27.35 | JademusSreg | That's why I concluded they were NYI. |
| 08:27.51 | JademusSreg | Strange, because support was added for them in 1.5. |
| 08:28.24 | JademusSreg | I suppose it is possible they've been forgotten entirely. |
| 08:29.04 | JademusSreg | Sounds like a fun problem to post in the bug forum, if only to provoke a response. |
| 08:29.30 | Bommes | there was also a lot of stuff that happened in patches after 1.5 |
| 08:29.45 | Bommes | for example in 1.5 they added support for light actors, which worked perfectly for a couple of months |
| 08:30.11 | Bommes | and then they suddenly broke in a patch and the game crashed whenever you started a map that had a light actor in it |
| 08:30.12 | JademusSreg | It may be possible to use them by modifying the custom hotkey file, but that's probably not something that can be packaged with the map. |
| 08:32.21 | JademusSreg | By bug forum, I mean bnet's bug forum, of course. |
| 08:32.25 | JademusSreg | brb++ |
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| 08:51.11 | ArcanePariah | Well... I got it to work, yippe ki yay |
| 08:52.41 | Zolden | what map are you working on ArcanePariah |
| 08:52.57 | ArcanePariah | I work on Night of the Dead |
| 08:53.11 | ArcanePariah | But atm I was figuring out how to make self cast work, and finally did so |
| 08:53.24 | ArcanePariah | Slight PITA, but it does work |
| 08:53.53 | Zolden | self cast? with effect-instant? or effect-target? |
| 08:54.34 | ArcanePariah | With effect target |
| 08:55.01 | ArcanePariah | Actually it really works on any ability, its a flag you have to set for it, it just makes any targeting by it target the caster |
| 08:55.08 | Zolden | and what is your workaround? |
| 08:55.41 | ArcanePariah | Not workaround, more like completing the implementation, it works, but Blizzard never defined the text values so that it will appear in the Hotkeys section of the Game options in game |
| 08:55.55 | Zolden | oh, and I just thought about zero range or filter + include caster |
| 08:56.10 | ArcanePariah | Also it is fundamentally tied to the grid layout, each button is tied to a position on the command card |
| 08:57.00 | Zolden | can't we move them along cc yet? |
| 08:57.22 | ArcanePariah | So you can set a hotkey that will self cast the ability if it is in the correct slot. So say you assign a hotkey for self casting for button 0, that means only self casting abilities in the top left slot will self cast |
| 08:58.04 | ArcanePariah | Well, you can assign hotkeys for all 15 command card slots, just like grid lets you assign hotkeys to each slot |
| 08:58.23 | ArcanePariah | But if you really want to leverage it, you have to design your units command cards around it |
| 08:58.37 | ArcanePariah | And the hotkeys as well |
| 09:01.33 | JademusSreg | Seems I missed the fun part. |
| 09:02.34 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, I assigned the text fields for the buttons, and then assign the hotkeys in game, set an ability to allow self cast and presto |
| 09:04.00 | JademusSreg | Hm, so it actually made the options display? I must have screwed up my test. Congrats, valuable information. |
| 09:04.20 | ArcanePariah | Mmhmm |
| 09:04.45 | ArcanePariah | Let me paste a screenshot for ya |
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| 09:06.41 | ArcanePariah | http://i.imgur.com/xwnOlo9.png |
| 09:07.37 | JademusSreg | I filled in the information well enough, I expect. I suspect something went awry during my testing in some other way. |
| 09:07.48 | ArcanePariah | I used the same text keys, and I may have simply been lucky in guessing the key names for the Name. The hotkey will not appear in the Grid section, you dont need grid layout for them to work, they will appear in the Global section, with their section named whatever you put in Catagory |
| 09:07.51 | JademusSreg | For instance, maybe I didn't save, haha. |
| 09:07.56 | ArcanePariah | lawl |
| 09:08.18 | JademusSreg | Oh, Global, haha. |
| 09:08.30 | JademusSreg | I didn't check for a mysterious extra sextion. |
| 09:08.32 | JademusSreg | *section |
| 09:09.09 | JademusSreg | In any case, nicely done. Ought to post it to the forums. |
| 09:09.35 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, I should find people who wanted this for LoL style self casting, I don't think you can do it with double taps, but you could assign your own hotkeys, so like Shift Q for ability 1 |
| 09:09.39 | ArcanePariah | Yeah |
| 09:10.15 | JademusSreg | Yes, expect many double-tap questions directed at you for the next few months. |
| 09:14.19 | ArcanePariah | Wait.. I think I have figured out how to make double tap work, just have one question, can 2 buttons on the same command card have the same hotkey? |
| 09:14.45 | JademusSreg | Yes, but may not work as intended. |
| 09:14.58 | ArcanePariah | Or actaully, better idea, can triggers catch command button being pressed? |
| 09:15.05 | ArcanePariah | (probably laggy as hell, but just wondering0 |
| 09:15.50 | JademusSreg | Interface response is local and gets synced, so it would follow about 200ms behind. |
| 09:16.16 | JademusSreg | So no matter how it is caught, same latency. |
| 09:17.08 | ArcanePariah | Ok... next question, once an ability has entered into targeting mode, with the excute command requirements being fulfilled, will the targeting be canceled if the requirements change to not being fufilled? |
| 09:17.51 | JademusSreg | Uncertain, but if it was programmed properly, it should, haha. |
| 09:18.07 | JademusSreg | A test is in order. |
| 09:18.57 | Zolden | i'm 90% sure it will work properly |
| 09:20.04 | ArcanePariah | Because if it does not, what you can do is have a trigger catch every command press, and apply a behavior, that behavior, via requirements, will block all other abilites, but reveal and allow the usage of the self cast versions, with the same hotkey. Now that I think of it, I WANT them to exit targeting mode, so that it make the command card avaible for the duration of the behavior, so that... |
| 09:20.05 | ArcanePariah | ...pressing the hotkey again uses the self cast version |
| 09:20.28 | ArcanePariah | This making any sense lol? |
| 09:20.35 | ArcanePariah | Testing time |
| 09:21.28 | JademusSreg | Curious, what happens if you just make the self-cast key same as the use key? |
| 09:21.53 | ArcanePariah | Good question... I dont know lol |
| 09:21.59 | JademusSreg | If double-tap is natively supported, that would be the most direct route. |
| 09:22.13 | ArcanePariah | Ill test that real quick |
| 09:25.24 | ArcanePariah | Welp, it just uses self cast |
| 09:26.23 | ArcanePariah | Ok, may be slightly unrelated, but wat does Re-executable flag on an ability do? |
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| 09:29.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (d55786b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.87.134.177) |
| 09:29.23 | ArcanePariah | So yeah, I'mm try my behavior approach with requirements, see if that does the trick |
| 09:30.07 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: what trick? |
| 09:31.41 | ArcanePariah | To create the effect of double tap to self cast, see if using a hotkey, catching it with a trigger, applying a short duration behavior, and have that behavior linked to 2 requirements, so when it is on, the normal abilites of a unit are hidden/unusable, but their self cast version become usable briefly, so a fast double tap lets you self cast |
| 09:33.00 | Zolden | lol |
| 09:33.48 | JademusSreg | Sounds cumbersome. At that point, an identical effect-instant ability would be preferable. |
| 09:37.01 | ArcanePariah | True, you could just create a Effect Instant, and assign it the same effect as the effect target |
| 09:37.17 | JademusSreg | Yeah. |
| 09:38.13 | Zolden | if you catch hotkey with trigger, why not simply ordering the unit to self-cast, instead of replacing the abil with self-cast one? |
| 09:38.15 | JademusSreg | Still, there may be unexplored features of hotkey assignment that may enable double-tapping. I'll skim the string dump. |
| 09:38.52 | JademusSreg | And if you're curious as to what I refer, I can dropbox them. |
| 09:39.09 | ArcanePariah | Though I find it really weird that EVERY ability has the self cast flag available, even Effect Instant ones |
| 09:39.27 | JademusSreg | Probably was enabled in the root ability class. |
| 09:39.39 | ArcanePariah | Since it appears to be a function of the command button, which appears to be independenct of the ability |
| 09:39.55 | ArcanePariah | Since every ability has the same fields for the Commands field |
| 09:40.49 | ArcanePariah | The other flags make sense ot have on every ability (Hidden, Send to Selection, Send to Glossary), but Self cast is like an odd man out |
| 09:41.35 | JademusSreg | Well, there's no indication double tap is natively supported. The only "double" I've found is in the editor's parsing of EditorCommands.xml as mousedoubleclick. |
| 09:42.41 | JademusSreg | Though right above that is an interesting list of arguments the editor can take. |
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| 09:44.54 | JademusSreg | Ah, some other fun stuff. Perhaps I should paste this block of strings. |
| 09:46.02 | JademusSreg | Hm, nothing revelatory in this block, so no need. |
| 09:48.14 | JademusSreg | GameHotkeys.txt may offer a means by which to assign self-cast keys for a map/mod. Should investigate. |
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| 09:56.15 | JademusSreg | Oh, and configurable commands. https://pastee.org/6vnyr |
| 09:57.46 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, the more I look at this, the only ways double tap can be made to work via self cast, can just as easily be done via a duplicate effect instant ability. |
| 09:58.18 | ArcanePariah | It appears the system was setup for the normal hotkey to be used when targeting, and only the self cast when needed |
| 09:59.52 | JademusSreg | Also of interest, there's suggestion in the galaxy-related strings that pointers may not be completely out the window. |
| 10:00.36 | ArcanePariah | The only way I could make this work with only tapping would be a triple tap, by making the cancel button the same as the button for excute, so double tapping will send you into targeting mode, then exit out, and have the self cast/effect instant version present for a brief time and with the same hotkey |
| 10:01.00 | ArcanePariah | Wait, dumb question, can you catch an effect leaving targeting mode? |
| 10:01.08 | ArcanePariah | An ability leaving targeting mode* |
| 10:01.27 | JademusSreg | Pretty sure. |
| 10:01.39 | JademusSreg | I can check the natives in a moment. |
| 10:02.37 | ArcanePariah | Damm, yes you can, Generic4- Cancel |
| 10:03.25 | JademusSreg | native void TriggerAddEventTargetModeUpdate (trigger t, int player, abilcmd inAbilCmd, int state); |
| 10:03.33 | JademusSreg | const int c_targetModeStateOff = 0; |
| 10:03.46 | ArcanePariah | So theres your double tap soultion, make the cancel button the same as the execute button, and with a trigger, catch the cancel, and issue the order, setting the target to the unit |
| 10:04.24 | JademusSreg | Still sounds a bit cumbersome and less responsive. |
| 10:04.51 | JademusSreg | I'd be fine with Shift Q, haha. |
| 10:05.00 | ArcanePariah | True, but... is there ANY soltution that exists today that doesn't key press detection? |
| 10:05.12 | ArcanePariah | doesn't use* |
| 10:05.40 | ArcanePariah | Afaik, detecting key presses is the absolute worst in terms of responsiveness |
| 10:06.29 | JademusSreg | Only in the sense it's non-local; the syncing is the issue, as bnet always adds about 200ms buffer latency. |
| 10:07.19 | JademusSreg | Which isn't terrible if you design with that latency in mind. |
| 10:09.33 | ArcanePariah | But yeah, at least self casting is now doable, and fairly actually straightforward |
| 10:10.33 | ArcanePariah | The only trick being, how do you force a hotkey profile? |
| 10:10.54 | ArcanePariah | Is there a way to embed one into the map and assign it to the players? |
| 10:11.14 | ArcanePariah | The hotkey profiles are a seperate file from the looks of how its setup in game |
| 10:12.28 | JademusSreg | Though ultimately, total reaction time is the value around which one designs error margins. Games with ultra-low latency, like a FPS on LAN at the highest level of play, have player reaction times in the range of 50ms - 120ms, depending on how accurately an action is anticipated. Mean reaction time is around 190ms, median reaction time around 215ms. |
| 10:13.33 | ArcanePariah | So... the latency of bnet is basically almost subjectively so low to be immeasurable |
| 10:13.40 | JademusSreg | With bnet latency at around 200ms, and assuming players have a mean reaction time, you get a total reaction time of about 390ms. |
| 10:13.41 | ArcanePariah | as to be* |
| 10:14.34 | JademusSreg | Well, 200ms is still perceptible. |
| 10:14.40 | ArcanePariah | True |
| 10:14.49 | ArcanePariah | but.... that's still pretty low |
| 10:15.31 | ArcanePariah | I wonder what would happen if Blizzard lowered it, would probably make for better games, but more unstable ones as peoples connections wouldn't be able to always handle it |
| 10:15.42 | JademusSreg | 1/5 of a second, pretty low, but noticable. And that's the minimum; the game will get slower for everyone if a player has a shit connection. |
| 10:15.59 | ArcanePariah | So more responsive games, but more likely to see "Waiting for Player X" |
| 10:16.09 | JademusSreg | Pretty much. |
| 10:18.02 | JademusSreg | 390ms is the time it takes for an action taken by a player to be synced plus the mean time it takes for a player to respond cognitively and react physically to the action. |
| 10:18.29 | ArcanePariah | Off topic, but was there some people wondering on how to change the default icons for resources? |
| 10:18.42 | JademusSreg | So bnet latency + human latency = everyone is always behind by nearly a half second, haha. |
| 10:19.01 | JademusSreg | Yes, but it was resolved. Game UI fields. |
| 10:19.18 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, i was poring over it, and remembered they were there |
| 10:20.18 | ArcanePariah | Anyhow, I'm looking at GameUI, and there is a field called Command Hotkey Repeat Ignored.... |
| 10:20.25 | ArcanePariah | And its set to disabled |
| 10:21.17 | JademusSreg | But yeah, I can understand why the pro-players talk about how latency kills their micro, with bnet and human latency combined. |
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| 10:22.33 | JademusSreg | Yes, iirc, that allows one to hold down hotkeys to spam their effects. Enabling it would require it be pressed for each execution. |
| 10:22.43 | ArcanePariah | But fundamentally, RTS's will always have that issue, there is no way you can run an RTS online without decent built in lag, even a Client Server arrangement would be just as bad |
| 10:23.07 | ArcanePariah | Ahh Yes, I see |
| 10:23.38 | JademusSreg | imagines it could work with obscene MMO architecture, not that there's a good reason to sink those resources into it. |
| 10:24.08 | Bommes|2 | unless you are Valve |
| 10:24.36 | ArcanePariah | Nah, even valve wouldn't be able to do it, they have a hard enough time keeping the dota server running |
| 10:24.42 | ArcanePariah | servers* |
| 10:25.49 | ArcanePariah | Valve has done some great things, but frankly, they have done next to nothing lately, most of their stuff they no longer host or develop, they either give out the server code and let people self host and they buy talent to dev games, they have not made an inhouse game of their own in ages |
| 10:26.11 | JademusSreg | Time for me to get busy. brb |
| 10:26.21 | ArcanePariah | And sometime before armageddon, we MIGHT get HL3 |
| 10:26.57 | ArcanePariah | At this rate, they will make Blizzard look like cheetahs, and Duke Nukem Forever a paragon of fast software development |
| 10:27.28 | Kueken | HL3 planned for 2037? |
| 10:35.49 | ArcanePariah | Only our Lord and Savior Gabe Newell knows :P |
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| 11:00.02 | G0A | is there any terrain texture in the sc2 wol which is grid like? |
| 11:05.40 | twodie | most of them turned to be cross like titled, i doubt it that there are such, unless in HotS |
| 11:06.36 | G0A | :( |
| 11:20.56 | twodie | 1 |
| 11:21.00 | twodie | ! |
| 11:21.15 | twodie | i can make you oneĄ |
| 11:30.25 | G0A | I already made it:D |
| 11:30.33 | G0A | hope it works out right |
| 11:40.54 | G0A | well it didnt |
| 11:41.18 | G0A | I want it to match up with the ingame grid and it doesnt |
| 11:41.33 | G0A | also it turned out to be too ugly |
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| 12:00.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster mille25 (548718f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.135.24.249) |
| 12:00.47 | mille25 | hi |
| 12:03.53 | JademusSreg | Zoop |
| 12:04.31 | JademusSreg | Goa, use texuvset |
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| 13:10.30 | G0A | JademusSreg where can I find that? |
| 13:10.39 | JademusSreg | It's a console command. |
| 13:21.14 | G0A | that doesnt helps lot |
| 13:21.30 | G0A | Terrain texture uv = scale: (0.00, 0.00), offset: (0.00, 0.00) |
| 13:22.25 | JademusSreg | texuvget returns the current value, yes. texuvset sets the scale and offset for the texture tiling. |
| 13:23.04 | JademusSreg | So texuvset 20 20 0 0 would scale the terrain textures to tile 20 times more frequently. |
| 13:23.16 | JademusSreg | Assuming default 1 1 0 0 |
| 13:25.44 | G0A | hmm |
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| 14:14.09 | Ahli | SCU seems to barely become funded |
| 14:14.27 | JademusSreg | Internet gnomes. |
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| 14:14.52 | zenx | 80k buys a lot of cookies |
| 14:15.03 | zenx | they can be consumed to fuel programming |
| 14:15.12 | MoonEater | dang |
| 14:15.18 | MoonEater | all u EU people |
| 14:15.19 | MoonEater | XD |
| 14:15.27 | MoonEater | first time on this early in the morning |
| 14:17.00 | Vailreth | im not usually here this early but i am NA |
| 14:26.56 | MoonEater | haha |
| 14:26.59 | MoonEater | Vail |
| 14:27.07 | MoonEater | i have a interesting |
| 14:27.09 | MoonEater | issue |
| 14:27.14 | MoonEater | brain teaser |
| 14:27.22 | MoonEater | if ur up for it, Vailreth |
| 14:27.27 | MoonEater | or anyone |
| 14:27.42 | Vailreth | sorry im a bit busy |
| 14:28.21 | MoonEater | oh well |
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| 15:41.17 | zenx | duckies: did mapping http://imgur.com/62KDkAH |
| 15:41.19 | zenx | ya |
| 15:41.58 | duckies | mapping is always cool zenxu :D |
| 15:44.41 | duckies | hm, ToG isn't translated yet.. I'll go buy myself some icecream D\:D |
| 15:44.43 | Kueken | looks more like messing around than mapping :D |
| 15:46.15 | zenx | no |
| 15:46.22 | zenx | its 100% serious |
| 15:46.33 | zenx | whats TOG |
| 15:46.46 | zenx | ah |
| 15:46.49 | zenx | tower of god |
| 15:46.52 | zenx | I read the raw |
| 15:47.01 | zenx | too impatient to wait |
| 15:47.05 | zenx | "read" |
| 15:47.57 | duckies | I looked at thumbnail and was like "oh, they're gonna talk something about the results.. I guess I better read a few hours for translation" :D |
| 15:48.08 | duckies | *wait |
| 15:48.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Eldrazor (5353a42b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.83.164.43) |
| 15:48.39 | duckies | so I checked out last 8 chapters of noblesse instead :D |
| 15:49.27 | duckies | I should sometimes skip tog too, so that I can read a bunch of chapters at the same go |
| 15:49.36 | duckies | but I can't, it's too magical t_t |
| 15:49.49 | zenx | yea |
| 15:49.54 | zenx | even thou plot is kinda slow atm |
| 15:50.00 | zenx | it sorta gives those clifhangers |
| 15:50.18 | duckies | ^^ |
| 15:50.44 | zenx | I pretty much only check for toriko/tog/one punch man raws |
| 15:50.53 | zenx | they are the best atm |
| 15:51.14 | zenx | one punch man is genious |
| 15:51.19 | zenx | doesnt seem too active thou |
| 15:52.15 | duckies | ooh nice, I can check that one too! |
| 15:53.56 | duckies | ehehe, what a way to start a series.. is that a piccolo? =D |
| 15:54.37 | zenx | seems so |
| 16:02.22 | duckies | yay |
| 16:02.27 | duckies | translation is out |
| 16:02.35 | duckies | but I didn't get myself that Icecream |
| 16:02.38 | duckies | =( |
| 16:03.06 | duckies | I guess I'll go out and get it before reading so that I can have 2 awesome things at once |
| 16:05.28 | zenx | translation or scanlation? |
| 16:05.53 | zenx | you could link nonetheless |
| 16:05.56 | zenx | since I wana see it anyway |
| 16:07.05 | duckies | speed translation is on mangacow |
| 16:07.10 | duckies | http://mngacow.com/tower-of-god/S02-79/ |
| 16:07.38 | duckies | ok, off to grocery store I go! |
| 16:08.34 | zenx | btw |
| 16:08.50 | zenx | kissmanga is superior online reader imo |
| 16:08.59 | zenx | reading while scrolling down is so much better than pages |
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| 16:19.35 | zenx | what an ending to tog this week |
| 16:19.37 | zenx | gah |
| 16:49.27 | duckies|afk | damnit, I really need to forget about tug so that next time I can jump straight away into following chapters |
| 16:49.48 | duckies | btw zenx, you can also scroll down on mangacow |
| 16:50.20 | duckies | you just pick "Long strip" reading type |
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| 17:49.23 | JademusSreg | Zooo. |
| 17:49.30 | A1win | p |
| 17:49.39 | JademusSreg | =D |
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| 18:13.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (d5578258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.87.130.88) |
| 18:15.45 | Zolden | greetings, gentle mapmakermen |
| 18:15.53 | JademusSreg | Zoople, Zolden. |
| 18:16.40 | Zolden | so, how much time and money left for scu? |
| 18:19.43 | Eldrazor | 4.5k |
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| 18:23.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (d5578a9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.87.138.154) |
| 18:24.48 | Zolden | so, how much time and money left for scu? |
| 18:25.08 | JademusSreg | doesn't know. |
| 18:25.09 | Zolden | will it make it? |
| 18:25.38 | ArcanePariah | about 31 hours and 4.7k |
| 18:25.48 | Zolden | my internet is too slow atm to check that big kickstarter page, so i'd ask someone else to fullfill my curiosity |
| 18:26.02 | ArcanePariah | And, probably, fair amount of publicity lately, they got on front page of MMO champion |
| 18:26.03 | Zolden | hmm, looks like they can make it |
| 18:27.04 | JademusSreg | Looks like I'll soon be putting out misinformation-fires on the news sites as the deadline draws near. |
| 18:27.18 | Zolden | hope they will start with effective measures and be wise enought to then hire me as a badass modeller |
| 18:27.54 | ArcanePariah | At this point, if all their existing backers just added 5 USD, they would reach it |
| 18:28.05 | ArcanePariah | 1400 backers currently |
| 18:28.31 | JademusSreg | That's a possibility, Zol, but you may want to talk to mille or creation about that, rather than loaf here. |
| 18:28.34 | Zolden | than 3 usd would be enough |
| 18:28.37 | Zolden | 3.4 |
| 18:28.53 | ArcanePariah | Yep |
| 18:29.00 | Zolden | who's their boss, mille or creation? |
| 18:29.07 | ArcanePariah | Mille iirc |
| 18:29.23 | ArcanePariah | Mille = Ryan Winzen iirc |
| 18:29.25 | JademusSreg | creation is lead design, mille is lead dev, basically. |
| 18:29.39 | JademusSreg | And creation = Ryan. =D |
| 18:29.51 | ArcanePariah | lol, learn something new everyday |
| 18:29.51 | JademusSreg | mille = Philipp |
| 18:30.21 | JademusSreg | If you're serious Zol, I'll ask mille to join the channel. |
| 18:30.47 | Zolden | well, it's not a haste |
| 18:30.49 | ArcanePariah | I've noticed that having a dedicated coder and designer are the foundation of most of the good maps on the arcade, at least the ones with heavy detail |
| 18:31.16 | ArcanePariah | And actually, most good companies in general (HP, Apple, Microsoft to name a few) |
| 18:31.47 | JademusSreg | I'm in need of at least 2 collaborators, myself. |
| 18:32.06 | Zolden | so, that god thing also include 2 creators, coder and designer? |
| 18:32.49 | ArcanePariah | god thing = ??? |
| 18:32.52 | JademusSreg | *good? |
| 18:33.07 | Zolden | the god, the creator of the universe |
| 18:33.21 | JademusSreg | Oh, so me; I do that all the time. |
| 18:33.57 | ArcanePariah | Sure, why not. Basically a techical person is the details person, he who sees the trees, the designer is the idea person, he who sees the forest |
| 18:34.39 | A1win | even better if both can see a bit of the other as well ;> |
| 18:34.47 | JademusSreg | I do both, I require collaborators similarly versatile. |
| 18:35.54 | ArcanePariah | Indeed, and such individuals who can shift from one to the other are very rare. Most individuals can not effortlessly (if at all) make such a transition, and also, as history has demonstrated quite often, 2 specialists >>> 2 generalists |
| 18:36.05 | Zolden | I do both too, but people say I'm a bad designer, but they called van gough a bad painter, so fuck noobs opinion |
| 18:36.43 | ArcanePariah | We as developers are often forced to do both, and it is very beneficial for one side to have an understanding of the other, as to better drive their own work |
| 18:37.11 | Zolden | yea, for example, hitler was alone and did both, and failed after all |
| 18:37.30 | JademusSreg | Difficult to identify if someone is a bad designer, easier to identify bad designs, easier still to identify bad articulation of a design. |
| 18:37.54 | Zolden | actually, human brain includes 2 semibrains, one ofr logic, one for images, so it's up to the person to develope both |
| 18:38.04 | ArcanePariah | Programming in and of itself is no longer useful, one most program with a purpose. For this reason, it is better to take an individual who understands the subject matter and teach them the tools, then take someone techically proficient and teach them the subject matter |
| 18:39.00 | JademusSreg | Yar, programming without a design (or even basic knowledge of programming methodology) is evident in most modders' work. |
| 18:39.17 | ArcanePariah | Agreed Zolden, but the natural capacity of each side is unique to each individual, and thus is difficult to weigh how good one can even be at one aspect or the other. It is easy to see geniuses and savants, but not so easy to see those who exist in both worlds |
| 18:40.54 | ArcanePariah | Jade, my aim was more at those who have the design, but due to not understanding the concept behind the design, will make assumptions and abstraction that are incorrect. To give a concrete example, It is far easier to take a gifted artist and teach them Photoshop, then it is to take a techically proficient person who can knows photoshop and expect them to create good artwork |
| 18:42.09 | Zolden | example is correct, and proves the point, but photoshop is a trivial case |
| 18:42.26 | Zolden | pit C++ instead, and it may equalize |
| 18:42.59 | ArcanePariah | True, there are better ones. For instance, writing software for doctors, without understanding medical terminiology, leads to unwieldy software, as my dentist attests |
| 18:43.09 | JademusSreg | Yes, quite apt. I observe a parallel in the two deficiencies I mentioned; lacking either technical proficiency is bound to result in some shittiness of product. |
| 18:44.09 | ArcanePariah | Small question, have you all ever read Mythical Man Month? |
| 18:45.17 | Zolden | is it a book or a magazine? |
| 18:45.22 | ArcanePariah | Book |
| 18:45.25 | Deaod | does having heard about it qualify as having read it? |
| 18:45.35 | Zolden | fiction? |
| 18:45.38 | ArcanePariah | lol, sort of, but not really |
| 18:45.39 | ArcanePariah | No |
| 18:45.56 | ArcanePariah | It was written by a professor who worked on one of IBMs first OS in the 70's |
| 18:46.08 | ArcanePariah | And some of his insights about software development |
| 18:46.11 | JademusSreg | Or perhaps a more immediate example, people excited about their "unique ideas" tend to develop them with little consideration to how the mechanical and presentational design contributes to how well received it is by a userbase. "Unique" or "different" maps with "good ideas" on the bnet arcade tend to fail and the devs will blame everyone but themselves, failing to appreciate their failure |
| 18:46.11 | JademusSreg | of design. |
| 18:46.32 | Zolden | guess he was a overLSD'd hippy |
| 18:46.48 | ArcanePariah | The book has 3 keys sections |
| 18:47.00 | JademusSreg | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Triceron (1854e5d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.84.229.210) |
| 18:47.56 | ArcanePariah | 1) Mythical man month: Software, unlike any other field, can not be made to go faster with more people, since each person added to the project must udnerstand the entire scope of the project and also communicate with the rest of the team, leading to each person making the development take longer, not shorter |
| 18:48.29 | ArcanePariah | So in short, if you need 100 hours to finish a project with 10 people, you can not simply add 10 more people and expect it be done in 50 hours |
| 18:48.32 | Triceron | Ahoy |
| 18:48.41 | ArcanePariah | more then likely, it will now take 100+ hours |
| 18:48.56 | JademusSreg | I don't expect every map to be produced using, say, Agile methodology, but it wouldn't hurt, haha. |
| 18:49.07 | JademusSreg | Hi thar Tri. |
| 18:49.12 | Triceron | Ahaha, I love it when people come to that conclusion, throwing more pepole in a project makes it work faster |
| 18:49.22 | Zolden | Yea, I kinda agree tith Eivin's poin he translates on forum, that person may be realy good on everything, but making successfull map will probably require making lots of not too popular maps which will only give some feedback about - how to make ideas to interact with players in the way they like |
| 18:49.24 | Deaod | i understand MMM as "throwing more people at a linear problem only makes things worse". |
| 18:50.29 | ArcanePariah | That was they next key section: No Silver bullet. No development improvement will provide even 1 order of magintude improvement. All improvements in software development will be incremental, the only time software development has sped up a bit is due to hardware advances, not changes in methodology or development practices |
| 18:50.50 | JademusSreg | Which comes full circle, so that I explain my need for collaborators. |
| 18:51.29 | ArcanePariah | There are some things that can provide order of maginitude improvesments, but they are totally unrelated to actualy development practices, such as the skill of the developer, some devs are simply that much better due to experience and talent |
| 18:51.32 | A1win | my maps are awesome, the playerbase just doesn't understand them :'( |
| 18:51.57 | JademusSreg | Collaborative design so ideas aren't hermetically sealed, and can be twisted into unexpected shapes by co-designers to expose their faults. |
| 18:52.06 | ArcanePariah | The best part of the book, IMO, was the 4 fundamental difficulties of software, the 4 key reasons software design is so damm hard |
| 18:53.05 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: go on |
| 18:53.51 | JademusSreg | Collaborative development to distribute the implementation workload, sharing the time and delivering iterations more rapidly. |
| 18:54.21 | ArcanePariah | 1) Complexity: Software duplicates nothing, if we have 2 identical pieices of code, we create a function and call it, we create libraries, unlike say a building, where if you want a 2nd story, you just order more lumber, more nails, more drywall, same as the first floor. Consequently, for good software, the size is directly correlated to its complexitiy |
| 18:55.07 | Zolden | JademusSreg: yea, it can be organized in a rapid way somehow |
| 18:55.19 | JademusSreg | ♥s Single Responsibility principle. |
| 18:55.25 | ArcanePariah | 2) Transparency: Software is completely abstract, and has 0 physicality. We can write equatiosn that decribe it, psuedocode, but otherwise can not be physically seen |
| 18:55.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster EntityEnigma (629696b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.150.150.178) |
| 18:55.32 | ArcanePariah | So it is entirely abstract |
| 18:55.59 | ArcanePariah | Which is why for most places, CS is simply a very specialized branch of mathematics |
| 18:56.25 | Zolden | would ♥ if there be a shit icon |
| 18:57.13 | ArcanePariah | 3) Changeability: Software is completly and totally flexible, I can delete all my NotD code in 5 seconds and create something toatally new. A refrigerator is a refrigerator, to change its form is to change its function, software lives by no such rules |
| 18:57.15 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: point 1) rather says about why software development is so cool, then so damn hard", it's its advantage |
| 18:57.39 | Zolden | 2) too |
| 18:58.03 | Zolden | and 3) too |
| 18:58.20 | Zolden | is is "why programming is cool" reasons list? |
| 18:58.23 | ArcanePariah | True, but it means it automatically requires a growing level of intelligence to grasp it. For exmaple, there are probably less then a 1000 people on earth capable of coding up a good OS kernal |
| 18:58.29 | Kueken1 | all depends on the point of view :) |
| 18:58.46 | Deaod | whats a "good OS kernel"? |
| 18:58.53 | ArcanePariah | Something like Linux |
| 18:58.57 | ArcanePariah | or NT |
| 18:59.04 | Deaod | arguably thats not a "good" kernel |
| 18:59.08 | Deaod | as its monolithic |
| 18:59.13 | JademusSreg | Let loose the hounds of WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH. |
| 18:59.17 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 18:59.25 | ArcanePariah | True, depends on ones purpose |
| 18:59.26 | Kueken | yep, Deaod can make a better one, no problem |
| 18:59.33 | ArcanePariah | which leads to the final point |
| 18:59.33 | Deaod | im not implying that |
| 18:59.40 | Kueken | no, I am |
| 18:59.45 | Zolden | but here's 0 ppl on eath that can build a heops pyramide |
| 18:59.46 | Deaod | oh good then |
| 19:00.20 | Kueken | we cannot confirm that, Zolden, until we find this "eath" |
| 19:00.33 | Zolden | what's more complex, OS or programming language? |
| 19:00.37 | JademusSreg | The quality "good" is ambiguous; the assertion cannot be evaluated until the quality is understood. |
| 19:00.52 | JademusSreg | decapitates the discussion. Gains 142 experience. |
| 19:01.03 | Kueken | and here I thought I was the smartass |
| 19:01.09 | Kueken | but Jade takes the crown |
| 19:01.13 | ArcanePariah | 4) (I forgot the exact name of it): Software, at its heart, is a model for describing human constructs, and those underlying constructs are often not logical, yet software is, so fully trying to decribe a human construct (Such as economics, medical knowledge, books, writing, music, chemistry, tools) is often impossible |
| 19:01.47 | ArcanePariah | How many times has a customer of softwre not truly understood what they want, and the software reflects that? |
| 19:01.49 | Zolden | Kueken: be cautious with humor, it can actually kill people |
| 19:01.50 | JademusSreg | Of course. Fun fact: my formal education was in philosophy. |
| 19:02.02 | JademusSreg | Another fun fact: philosophy is useless. |
| 19:02.24 | Kueken | yeah, Hitler also thought it was all in good fun, right Zolden? |
| 19:02.42 | Kueken | so , fun fact, Jade is useless? |
| 19:02.50 | ArcanePariah | Philosophy is useful if you understand its place, it is a branch of logic, same as mathematics, such that it uses logic in a more abstract way |
| 19:03.06 | Zolden | JademusSreg: not even technical? |
| 19:03.07 | ArcanePariah | math is simply formal precise logic |
| 19:03.08 | Zolden | Kueken: you read my thoughts |
| 19:03.21 | Zolden | he made a joke, and look where he is now |
| 19:03.23 | JademusSreg | Nope. Learning the uselessness of -academic- philosophy enabled me to learn more useful things. |
| 19:03.42 | Zolden | people don't like when it's too fun |
| 19:03.43 | Zolden | no one likes to die |
| 19:04.02 | ArcanePariah | Correct, it taught you logic, which when applied, allows one to deduce and induce many facts and knowledge, which is learning |
| 19:04.05 | Kueken | death as the highest form of entertainment |
| 19:04.27 | Kueken | this civilization would be either very boring or very extinct |
| 19:04.31 | ArcanePariah | Death is the epitome of change |
| 19:04.35 | ArcanePariah | Change is entertaining |
| 19:04.40 | ArcanePariah | and Death is its pinnacle |
| 19:04.54 | JademusSreg | Philosophy is, like religion, a bridge to less ambiguous, less subjective, less personal understanding of reality, which has as an institution outlived its purpose. |
| 19:05.22 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: and 4) point is jsut interpreted in a wrong way. The fact that knowledge is not logical, and programming will not work the program it is logical, means that programmer gets a huge feedback from programming attempts, he's getting smarter while programming |
| 19:05.38 | Kueken | you know that you are philosophing about philosophy being useless right now, right? |
| 19:05.59 | JademusSreg | Semantic wordplay, I know thee well. |
| 19:06.05 | A1win | philosophy makes you feel like you're smart until you become smart enough to realize it isn't really that smart after all |
| 19:06.11 | JademusSreg | ^ |
| 19:06.13 | A1win | *makes you feel smart |
| 19:06.16 | ArcanePariah | Zolden: True, but it means you can never have a perfect program, since theu underlying model that is the basis for program is shifting like sand |
| 19:06.19 | JademusSreg | Undercut my point, but yes. |
| 19:06.23 | Zolden | JademusSreg: how did you learn programming than? |
| 19:06.38 | MoonEater | ZOLDEN! |
| 19:06.39 | Triceron | He was born with it |
| 19:06.43 | JademusSreg | Autodidactically. |
| 19:06.45 | MoonEater | is waiting |
| 19:06.50 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 19:07.03 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, that reminds me of an old academic joke: A Bachelors thinks he knows everything, a Masters knows he knows nothing, and a PHD knows everyone else knows nothing |
| 19:07.15 | JademusSreg | Socratic wisdom, yar. |
| 19:07.26 | JademusSreg | + hubris punchline |
| 19:07.42 | Zolden | MoonEater |
| 19:07.56 | MoonEater | yes? |
| 19:08.13 | Kueken | lets eat some Moon together sometime |
| 19:08.28 | MoonEater | not u 2 kueken |
| 19:08.34 | ArcanePariah | For instance Zolden, I can write a program to model the universe, but that is based on our undertanding of physics, Imagine if you had such a model before einstien. After Einstein, you would have to rewrite the entire program, since it would no longer be complete (or possibly even valid) |
| 19:08.42 | Zolden | MoonEater: I have a gun and want your moon, empty your pockets and get lost! |
| 19:08.46 | Kueken | moon was some kind of appreviation for a drug, right? |
| 19:08.52 | Kueken | *bb |
| 19:08.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-89.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 19:08.59 | MoonEater | no |
| 19:09.00 | Triceron | damn, that reminds me to watch Moon |
| 19:09.00 | ArcanePariah | In short, programs are models of models |
| 19:09.02 | MoonEater | moon pies |
| 19:09.14 | Helral | you want some moonshine? |
| 19:09.25 | ArcanePariah | We have our human models of existance, and then we model those models in programs to understand the model and explore the model faster |
| 19:09.27 | Kueken | ITS A KITTEN!!! |
| 19:09.32 | Helral | where? |
| 19:09.33 | ArcanePariah | And we have kittes |
| 19:09.33 | Triceron | punts Helral |
| 19:09.37 | ArcanePariah | lol |
| 19:09.39 | ArcanePariah | Sup Helral |
| 19:09.40 | Helral | I don't see any kittens... |
| 19:09.43 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: yea, and program would show what's wrong, it would work as a criticue for the model |
| 19:09.47 | Kueken | hm |
| 19:09.51 | Helral | bounces of the wall onto triceron's head. |
| 19:09.56 | Helral | meows innocently |
| 19:10.03 | Kueken | it looks like Helral, but it sure as hell doesn't talk like Helral |
| 19:10.06 | Kueken | ah |
| 19:10.09 | Kueken | there we go |
| 19:10.09 | Helral | lol |
| 19:10.21 | MoonEater | shoots at halral : misses and hits purl |
| 19:10.30 | Helral | poor purl |
| 19:10.39 | ArcanePariah | Agreed, but that ironically is one of the problems with programs/models: They only give answers. The earliese engineers both loved and hated computers, because they gave them all the answers... which meant plenty of data, but plenty of useless data |
| 19:10.45 | Helral | I wanted to use Triceron as a shield, but Moon missed.... |
| 19:10.59 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: models are more than models of models. They are pure calculation, that animates the static models, give them births and life, unhides models' dynamical dimention |
| 19:11.10 | Kueken | well, why did he aim for Halral anyway |
| 19:11.32 | Deaod | uhhh, what is the point of this discussion? |
| 19:11.35 | Triceron | I wouldn't be a very effective shield |
| 19:11.49 | Kueken | Dead: Isn't it obvious: |
| 19:11.52 | Kueken | PENIS! |
| 19:11.54 | Helral | no idea why he aimed for Halral... |
| 19:11.57 | JademusSreg | Anyway, ol' Wittgenstein observed that humans play games with language, and I figure academic philosophy is the institution of a culture's language-games; it can be fun, it can feed the ego, but it has little leverage beyond the political structures which grew up around the game. Why play the pretentious games of long dead men when I can make my own? |
| 19:12.00 | Zolden | Triceron: look, Tomura is here, ask him about physics |
| 19:12.12 | Helral | whacks Kueken with the skeleton of a trout |
| 19:12.17 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but such calcualtions, espcially on a computer, are digital and determinative (always has a known state), but the world we live is indeterminiate and analog |
| 19:12.27 | ArcanePariah | so the model will never be precise ever |
| 19:12.28 | Triceron | Hey Tomura |
| 19:12.31 | Kueken | hm, I missed as well |
| 19:12.45 | ArcanePariah | lauches Kirby at Helral |
| 19:12.47 | Kueken | Deaod, not Dead |
| 19:12.48 | ArcanePariah | Catch |
| 19:12.49 | Helral | I figured hitting Kueken with chicken bones would be kinda evil. |
| 19:12.58 | Helral | sucks up Kirby and steals his ability. |
| 19:13.02 | ArcanePariah | brb later |
| 19:13.07 | Tomura | ! |
| 19:13.09 | MoonEater | Zolden |
| 19:13.10 | Helral | :P |
| 19:13.11 | Kueken | it would cause a quantum singularity and consume earth |
| 19:13.12 | MoonEater | make my wall |
| 19:13.16 | Zolden | ArcanePariah: it's not programming's problem, it's only a temporary problem of the hardware we have to program on |
| 19:13.19 | MoonEater | U BISH! |
| 19:13.50 | Deaod | Zolden, chances are that if you want to simulate the universe, you have the intractable problem of hardware |
| 19:14.12 | JademusSreg | recalls PErmutation City. |
| 19:14.18 | Zolden | MoonEater: I'd be glad to, but I haven't returned from the nature bosom to the urban chamber |
| 19:15.06 | Deaod | alternatively, we could talk about how lambdas are cool |
| 19:15.08 | MoonEater | yes... |
| 19:15.20 | MoonEater | using destructable walls is terrible |
| 19:15.33 | Zolden | Deaod: yea, and human civilization is trying to solve this, and will be close and closer with the hardware to imitate nature. Also, I believe that there are some tricks to imitate analogue shit on discrete environment |
| 19:17.05 | JademusSreg | Totally Legit True Fact of Inarguable Veracity: A lambda containing two or more lambdas is known as a maryda. |
| 19:17.15 | Zolden | for example, we all have watched mandelbrod fractal flythrough with infinite zooming in. And mathematically this process is just making calculoations preciser and preciser on smaller and smaller part of the space |
| 19:18.53 | Deaod | the mandelbrot set is a mathematical construct with no relation to reality, AFAIK |
| 19:19.33 | MoonEater | shit |
| 19:19.45 | MoonEater | i have a bad feeling the lag will be too much for bnet |
| 19:19.47 | MoonEater | with my new map |
| 19:20.05 | Zolden | it's an example of the fact that precise calculations are possible with digital bytes, so analogue processes can be imitated |
| 19:20.58 | Zolden | nature is also kinda discrete, there are minimal quantum of time, and plank length |
| 19:21.05 | Zolden | planck |
| 19:21.34 | JademusSreg | Er |
| 19:22.13 | JademusSreg | Naw, but correcting it wouldn't be worth the effort. =D |
| 19:23.04 | Zolden | so, the point that "imitations are limited because they can't fit nature's complexity" is probably a quantity, not quality issue, local issue |
| 19:23.48 | JademusSreg | A perfectly detail-accurate model is perfectly useless. |
| 19:24.04 | Zolden | in russian there is no "ck", only "k", but I belive you, Jade |
| 19:24.24 | JademusSreg | The point is to mitigate the complexity and noise of reality by simplifying the relationships and their parameters. |
| 19:24.47 | Zolden | unless its original natural system is not reachable |
| 19:25.08 | Deaod | how the hell did we go from software to this? |
| 19:25.21 | Zolden | yes, if the model can afford to be simplier, why not |
| 19:25.39 | JademusSreg | Dunno. Probably classic local scoping issue. |
| 19:26.27 | Zolden | Deaod: Arcane said that it's bad that people's models are not logical and programming is logical. And I said, it's good, because program will be an angel that says what's not logical to fix it |
| 19:26.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 19:27.01 | Triceron | my models are always logical |
| 19:27.07 | A1win | http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-last-question/ |
| 19:27.11 | Zolden | and a question emerged, can programs be precise enough for it |
| 19:27.16 | JademusSreg | Baduntsss |
| 19:27.48 | Zolden | Triceron: and Playboy's models are logical too |
| 19:27.56 | Triceron | :D |
| 19:28.18 | JademusSreg | Earlier I was discussing my need for collaborators on both design and development, though need is perhaps too strong a word. |
| 19:29.01 | Deaod | well, Jade, too many designers are bad, and too many developers are probably also bad |
| 19:29.10 | JademusSreg | More accurately, I desire more experience working with people in small, rapidly iterated projects. |
| 19:29.18 | Zolden | JademusSreg: you need development assist? for programming or jsut modifying the design? |
| 19:30.14 | Deaod | the sad thing is, id really love to try out different methodologies as well, but cant since my current workplace doesnt give a damn and actively discourages that |
| 19:31.18 | JademusSreg | In a sense, I need variant copies of myself which do not think exactly as I do but share reference frames, haha. |
| 19:32.26 | JademusSreg | Which is to say competent designer/developers who can provide different perspectives capable of identifying critical faults where I may fail to do so. |
| 19:33.39 | Zolden | when I was under psylocibine mushrooms, I noticed, that all humans are the copies, the exact same algorithm, they just have slightly different hardware, and that's where the differences come from |
| 19:34.26 | JademusSreg | I may be rigorous, but cognitive bias is inevitable, so collaborators (not subordinates) help keep shit in check. |
| 19:35.39 | A1win | JademusSreg, you got any interest in working with Unity by any chance? ;p |
| 19:35.45 | Zolden | JademusSreg: there is a chance i'll read that document, maybe some thoughts willl follow |
| 19:35.48 | MoonEater | is there a reason why i cant increase hyperions hp via triggers or modify it? or am i just stupid |
| 19:36.29 | Zolden | MoonEater: max hp or actual? |
| 19:36.37 | MoonEater | current max hp |
| 19:36.47 | MoonEater | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:36.53 | MoonEater | max life being a variable |
| 19:36.56 | MoonEater | tha is calculated |
| 19:37.38 | Zolden | shouldn't you change catalog value for it? |
| 19:37.43 | MoonEater | currently chcking to make sure that variable is being set |
| 19:37.51 | MoonEater | well its a particular unit |
| 19:38.00 | JademusSreg | Yes, Zol, which leads to the inevitable conclusion that all individual consciousnesses are essentially the same, its variations merely a difference of the substrate performing the computations of physical processes from which emerge cognitive functions, that reality is itself a vast potential consciousness yet sleeping. |
| 19:38.07 | JademusSreg | Sound about right for a trip? |
| 19:38.21 | JademusSreg | A1, yep. Already do. |
| 19:38.41 | A1win | mmmh |
| 19:39.08 | JademusSreg | Figure I'll use bnet to test the viability of the concept and design theories before developing a full stand-alone version. |
| 19:39.29 | JademusSreg | Because the platform offers plenty of testers, haha. |
| 19:39.31 | MoonEater | seems abit backward since unity has more functionality |
| 19:40.55 | Zolden | JademusSreg: yea, it's rather an idea-attractor for the field, that the nature itself provides everything for the consciousness, while natural evolution is one of the ways to develop the hardware for it (and probably computers willl take the lead soon) |
| 19:43.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 19:43.25 | MoonEater | Jade, |
| 19:43.58 | MoonEater | if i pick each unit from a circle region, how r the units listed? by creation index or center outward? |
| 19:44.59 | JademusSreg | There's no reason to suspect it is sorted in any sense. |
| 19:45.13 | MoonEater | im doing |
| 19:45.26 | MoonEater | closest unit to point in region |
| 19:45.54 | MoonEater | but i want to make the script more effecient by grabbing a minimal amount |
| 19:48.10 | JademusSreg | Moon, can you guess what next I would ask in this sequence? |
| 19:49.23 | JademusSreg | Why? For what purpose? What's the design? |
| 19:51.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-71-202-39-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:52.29 | JademusSreg | But in general, one should avoid pick each in favor of for each, and one should employ unit filters before iterating across the unit group. |
| 19:54.20 | MoonEater | i having stack overflows |
| 19:54.32 | MoonEater | which is not possible :/ |
| 19:54.35 | JademusSreg | Hahaha wat |
| 19:54.36 | MoonEater | nothing should be stacking |
| 19:55.14 | JademusSreg | If the galaxy vm is encountering a stack overflow, I wanna see the script. |
| 19:55.44 | JademusSreg | Also, likely a consequence of recursion. |
| 19:56.05 | MoonEater | i know |
| 19:56.06 | MoonEater | but |
| 19:56.16 | MoonEater | the recursive functions arnt firing |
| 19:57.04 | MoonEater | i think there is a fundamental brack down in the rules of math |
| 19:57.10 | JademusSreg | Er, sounds like they are, and breaking the fuck down. |
| 19:57.27 | JademusSreg | So post the script, please. =D |
| 19:57.36 | MoonEater | see, i go and refine the triggers only to open a can of woop ass |
| 19:58.08 | JademusSreg | I've not encountered a stack overflow in galaxy, so I'm curious to see what may cause it. |
| 19:58.18 | MoonEater | oh... |
| 19:58.20 | MoonEater | its models |
| 19:58.33 | MoonEater | never had too many threads? |
| 19:58.35 | MoonEater | before? |
| 19:59.14 | JademusSreg | Too many threads != callstack overflow |
| 19:59.30 | MoonEater | it is when its stacking |
| 19:59.34 | MoonEater | recursivly |
| 19:59.41 | MoonEater | well |
| 19:59.49 | MoonEater | not recursivly |
| 20:00.10 | MoonEater | its a function that is slower than the scripts that r calling it |
| 20:00.17 | MoonEater | the function is making its own threads |
| 20:00.19 | JademusSreg | About to run an errand, so paste or get off the pot. =D |
| 20:00.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster Obscene (184a8609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.74.134.9) |
| 20:00.23 | Obscene | WELCOME TO AOL ONLINE 3.0!!! |
| 20:00.26 | MoonEater | and the script is running so fast |
| 20:00.30 | MoonEater | too many triggers |
| 20:00.31 | MoonEater | to |
| 20:00.32 | Obscene | zNOW WITH FASTER DIALUP SPEED!!! |
| 20:00.41 | MoonEater | Obscene, u were banned |
| 20:00.45 | MoonEater | :( |
| 20:00.54 | Obscene | no comment |
| 20:01.14 | JademusSreg | ^ appropriate response |
| 20:01.38 | Obscene | I just got back from my 21st birthday party.... |
| 20:01.44 | Obscene | Quite a bit hungover |
| 20:01.45 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:02.03 | Obscene | 10 shots of Bicardi 151 |
| 20:02.05 | Obscene | ;p; |
| 20:02.11 | Obscene | and 4 beers... |
| 20:02.27 | Obscene | and the kings cup... |
| 20:02.49 | MoonEater | light weight |
| 20:03.11 | Obscene | The kings cup, turns any weight... |
| 20:03.12 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:03.20 | twodie | One cigar, and never felt so fucked. |
| 20:03.20 | Obscene | You never played kings? |
| 20:03.51 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 20:03.53 | Obscene | Kings is great, you take a deck of cards and spread them around a cup, then people draw cards. |
| 20:04.15 | Obscene | If they draw a king, then they put whatever they are drinking into the cup 1 shot worth |
| 20:04.24 | Obscene | Well all 4 kings were pulled haha |
| 20:04.29 | Obscene | And it starts off with a beer inside of it |
| 20:04.39 | Obscene | So it was quite gross.. |
| 20:05.44 | Obscene | So vailreth how was your weekend |
| 20:06.43 | MoonEater | Obscene, no unforntunatly i dont like beer (i think its a beer game right?) |
| 20:06.52 | Obscene | its an everything game |
| 20:07.00 | MoonEater | and i measure my shots by the ounces |
| 20:07.04 | Obscene | Beer, Bloodymarry, rum anything :P |
| 20:07.15 | Obscene | But the cup always starts with 1 shot or 1 beer |
| 20:08.23 | MoonEater | Jade, My recursive function is balls slow |
| 20:08.26 | MoonEater | which fucking sucks |
| 20:08.27 | Obscene | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets) |
| 20:11.05 | MoonEater | damnit!!! |
| 20:11.14 | MoonEater | its the fundamental fucntion |
| 20:11.18 | MoonEater | and its ballsslow |
| 20:12.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster aergear (7d816319@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.129.99.25) |
| 20:12.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster rtgeyr (7d816319@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.129.99.25) |
| 20:13.37 | rtgeyr | hey |
| 20:13.38 | rtgeyr | help me |
| 20:14.07 | MoonEater | wow |
| 20:14.11 | rtgeyr | can i create cliff with trigger? |
| 20:14.13 | MoonEater | u never been in irc before |
| 20:14.17 | MoonEater | no u cant |
| 20:14.24 | rtgeyr | or data? |
| 20:14.33 | MoonEater | with data kinda |
| 20:14.35 | MoonEater | but its a mill |
| 20:14.37 | MoonEater | hill* |
| 20:14.40 | MoonEater | not a clif |
| 20:14.47 | rtgeyr | if i create cliff |
| 20:14.54 | MoonEater | ull need triggers in advance sort of way to fix the pathign |
| 20:14.56 | rtgeyr | reapers jump over it |
| 20:15.08 | MoonEater | thats not possible |
| 20:15.10 | rtgeyr | other units can't jump over it |
| 20:15.25 | MoonEater | cliff pathing is created in editor only |
| 20:15.29 | MoonEater | u can change it mid game |
| 20:15.42 | MoonEater | so if u could make a cliff units would walk all over it |
| 20:15.53 | MoonEater | like it didnt exist |
| 20:16.18 | rtgeyr | can units jump over depot? |
| 20:16.26 | MoonEater | no |
| 20:16.32 | MoonEater | only fly |
| 20:16.50 | rtgeyr | how do i make marines jump like reapers? |
| 20:16.59 | MoonEater | u change the movers |
| 20:17.00 | MoonEater | in marines |
| 20:17.14 | JademusSreg | (Wrong; units can be made to jump over anything.) |
| 20:17.18 | JademusSreg | (brb++) |
| 20:17.41 | MoonEater | ya |
| 20:17.41 | MoonEater | see |
| 20:17.48 | MoonEater | ur so smart jade u help him |
| 20:17.49 | MoonEater | lolz |
| 20:18.10 | MoonEater | jades right some things there r work arounds |
| 20:18.24 | MoonEater | u could make the unit act like flying when they near a depo |
| 20:18.28 | MoonEater | or teleport over it |
| 20:18.29 | MoonEater | or |
| 20:18.34 | MoonEater | maybe somthing i missed |
| 20:18.47 | MoonEater | anyways now i got to go |
| 20:19.00 | rtgeyr | so i can make an ability marines can jump like reaper? |
| 20:19.15 | MoonEater | possibly yes |
| 20:19.20 | MoonEater | upgrade deffinatly |
| 20:19.50 | rtgeyr | sounds too hard |
| 20:20.13 | Obscene | you can make cliffs in triggers. |
| 20:20.13 | MoonEater | rtgeyr, things take time |
| 20:20.19 | MoonEater | what? |
| 20:20.21 | Obscene | I dunno how, but I have seen it done in a few projects |
| 20:20.28 | MoonEater | i havnt |
| 20:20.34 | MoonEater | anyways |
| 20:20.38 | MoonEater | rtgeyr, |
| 20:20.40 | Obscene | GOA was it you who created randomized cliffs? |
| 20:20.43 | MoonEater | making maps takes time |
| 20:20.45 | rtgeyr | i forgot the idea i was going to say |
| 20:20.51 | MoonEater | expect to be here for awhile |
| 20:20.58 | Obscene | G0A |
| 20:21.02 | MoonEater | u will not complete a decent map this week |
| 20:21.11 | MoonEater | ask complex questions in the forums |
| 20:21.14 | Obscene | why not :) |
| 20:21.15 | MoonEater | ask simpler questions here |
| 20:21.23 | MoonEater | ill be back in 30 min |
| 20:21.24 | Obscene | Feel free to ask any questions here :P |
| 20:21.34 | Obscene | Answers for harder questions are just not guarenteed |
| 20:21.51 | Obscene | 1 sec |
| 20:21.58 | Obscene | Ill open my editor and look for a cliff via trigger solution |
| 20:23.00 | rtgeyr | maybe i need another fun idea for tug of war map |
| 20:23.09 | rtgeyr | i forgot it though |
| 20:23.43 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:25.37 | Obscene | lawl |
| 20:25.50 | Obscene | Well you can always go remake DBZ Tribute from Warcraft 3, that would be cool |
| 20:25.52 | Obscene | :D |
| 20:26.40 | rtgeyr | i will go out if you dont want to tell me how to do cliff via trigger anymore |
| 20:27.08 | G0A | Obscene nope. I didnt make randomized cliffs |
| 20:27.15 | Obscene | hmm |
| 20:27.27 | Obscene | Go all out then :P, honestly I dunno. |
| 20:27.35 | rtgeyr | ok |
| 20:27.39 | Obscene | I know I saw it on a tower defense map, but I am not sure. |
| 20:27.48 | Obscene | And it could have just been false cliffs |
| 20:28.00 | rtgeyr | https://www.youtube.com/user/CouponbookG PM me if anyone wanna play devilian and EOS online! |
| 20:28.05 | A1win | can't modify real cliffs |
| 20:28.25 | G0A | Obscene google first result: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/triggers/24734-proof-of-concept-random-generated-floating-cliff-islands/ |
| 20:28.41 | Obscene | Thx G0A |
| 20:28.52 | G0A | Obscene it is false cliffs... |
| 20:28.58 | Obscene | yeah I saw |
| 20:29.05 | Obscene | Thats most likely what I was seeing then |
| 20:32.01 | JademusSreg | Brak. |
| 20:32.08 | Obscene | Zorakk... |
| 20:32.21 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 20:32.41 | JademusSreg | Anyway, Moon, did you paste your script? |
| 20:32.50 | Obscene | he left |
| 20:33.08 | JademusSreg | =D++ |
| 20:34.19 | twodie | =C |
| 20:35.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (d5578687@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.87.134.135) |
| 20:35.59 | Obscene | GUYS GUYS GUYS!!! |
| 20:36.00 | Obscene | ... |
| 20:36.03 | Obscene | 9 more days |
| 20:36.04 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:36.10 | Obscene | Then I will be AFK for 1 week minimum' |
| 20:36.21 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 20:36.23 | Obscene | Hey Zolden |
| 20:36.25 | Obscene | GTA C |
| 20:36.27 | Obscene | V |
| 20:36.52 | Zolden | hi |
| 20:37.09 | Obscene | When you gettin back from crappy internet |
| 20:37.10 | Obscene | ? |
| 20:38.01 | Zolden | next weekend |
| 20:38.20 | Zolden | for a few days to mapmake a bit |
| 20:38.24 | Zolden | I miss it here |
| 20:38.38 | Obscene | ;d |
| 20:39.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater|mobile (~AndChat64@168.sub-70-197-8.myvzw.com) |
| 20:40.21 | MoonEater|mobile | Is it possible to combine unit actors |
| 20:40.34 | JademusSreg | Meaning? |
| 20:40.58 | MoonEater|mobile | I want to construct a building that is a barracks with a bunker next to it |
| 20:41.25 | JademusSreg | Unit actor with ActorCreation > AttachModelOffset |
| 20:41.27 | JademusSreg | Easy. |
| 20:41.36 | MoonEater|mobile | Kk |
| 20:42.52 | Obscene | If you want you can also do other crazy things like make 1 die when the health bar reaches a certain level |
| 20:43.02 | Obscene | and make them share a selection circle |
| 20:43.46 | JademusSreg | Moon asked for an aesthetic addition, not a mechanical one. =D |
| 20:45.03 | Obscene | :D |
| 20:45.10 | Obscene | I just like others to know their options |
| 20:47.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster unclesatan (187197d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.113.151.214) |
| 20:49.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~ArcanePar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:50.09 | unclesatan | if anyone's got a free 15 or 20 minutes i'd like to test me map |
| 20:50.18 | unclesatan | <3 a person :] |
| 20:53.18 | Obscene | sorry I just cant in good sense help someone with the name "UncleSatan" Change your nick and ill help :PO |
| 20:53.28 | unclesatan | bahahahahah |
| 20:53.30 | unclesatan | i like it |
| 20:53.41 | unclesatan | idk how to change it though especially in sc2 :p |
| 20:53.48 | Obscene | oh its in Sc2 too..... |
| 20:53.52 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:53.55 | Obscene | ok what sever |
| 20:53.57 | unclesatan | it's mainly a joke name ;) |
| 20:53.58 | Obscene | server |
| 20:54.01 | unclesatan | americas |
| 20:54.05 | Obscene | yeah i know lol |
| 20:54.26 | Obscene | gotta patch |
| 20:54.32 | Obscene | patched |
| 20:54.33 | Obscene | lo,l |
| 20:56.21 | Obscene | Ishadowwolf.258 |
| 20:56.22 | Obscene | gogogogog |
| 20:56.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 20:57.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster unclesatan_ (187197d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.113.151.214) |
| 20:57.30 | unclesatan_ | chat was not working |
| 20:57.31 | unclesatan_ | idk why |
| 20:57.40 | Zolden | Obscene: patch? |
| 20:57.48 | Zolden | another one? |
| 20:57.52 | Zolden | or just 2.0.11? |
| 20:57.59 | Obscene | Ishadowwolf.258 |
| 20:58.01 | Obscene | yout timed out |
| 20:58.09 | Obscene | 2.0.0111? |
| 20:58.15 | Obscene | I dunno |
| 20:58.15 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:58.27 | unclesatan_ | kk |
| 20:59.14 | unclesatan_ | it's not letting me add you |
| 20:59.18 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:59.23 | unclesatan_ | fc |
| 20:59.29 | unclesatan_ | 586 |
| 20:59.35 | Obscene | fc? |
| 20:59.46 | Obscene | Just go to chat channel "Obscene |
| 21:00.38 | unclesatan_ | won't let me join q_q |
| 21:00.49 | Obscene | .... |
| 21:00.50 | Zolden | noobs |
| 21:01.42 | Obscene | Then go to the General Chat public channel... |
| 21:03.02 | MoonEater | Zolden |
| 21:03.06 | MoonEater | i needs wall |
| 21:03.11 | MoonEater | its the only thing i need |
| 21:03.29 | Zolden | i remember |
| 21:04.07 | MoonEater | whana see the concept? |
| 21:04.16 | MoonEater | i hope it will modivate u |
| 21:04.32 | Zolden | ok |
| 21:04.43 | MoonEater | na? |
| 21:04.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Triceron (1854e5d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.84.229.210) |
| 21:05.24 | Zolden | show me a screen |
| 21:05.37 | MoonEater | better to see the demo |
| 21:06.09 | MoonEater | the sceen has crappy moddels that doesnt do justice |
| 21:06.14 | Zolden | as I said twice to you, I'm not in moscow, and I can't mmodel, mapmake or play sc2 |
| 21:06.57 | Obscene | yeah yeah, we all know how you hillbillies are |
| 21:07.03 | Obscene | :D |
| 21:07.05 | Lepton | guise |
| 21:07.12 | Lepton | can anyone confirm |
| 21:07.16 | Lepton | that is it impossible |
| 21:07.21 | Lepton | to |
| 21:07.22 | Obscene | No Im not wearing one lepton, I really am this beautiful |
| 21:07.45 | Lepton | hide game chat but not PMs |
| 21:07.59 | Lepton | so that ppl dont have to click the social tab to see their pms |
| 21:08.12 | unclesatan_ | rdy now obscene :) |
| 21:08.14 | unclesatan_ | thanks for waiting |
| 21:08.17 | Obscene | ok |
| 21:08.53 | MoonEater | i am such a fking noob |
| 21:09.07 | MoonEater | i was doing Unit - Any Unit dies Local Variables Conditions Actions General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions) If ((Triggering unit) is Required: Structure; Excluded: Missile, Hidden for player (Triggering player)) == True |
| 21:09.14 | MoonEater | uh... |
| 21:09.17 | MoonEater | thats ugly |
| 21:09.22 | MoonEater | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:09.26 | MoonEater | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:09.36 | MoonEater | and i had it excluding the dead |
| 21:09.39 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.26.166.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 21:09.40 | MoonEater | and for the last hour |
| 21:09.52 | MoonEater | ive been trying to figure out why that condition wasnt working |
| 21:10.29 | Lepton | derp |
| 21:10.38 | Lepton | happened to me once |
| 21:10.47 | Lepton | with picked player instead of picked integer |
| 21:10.49 | Lepton | herp derp |
| 21:13.23 | Obscene | use pastebin.com its much more readable |
| 21:14.29 | MoonEater | just 2 lines |
| 21:14.32 | MoonEater | JADE!!! |
| 21:15.36 | unclesatan_ | obscene just did an online test it should work now |
| 21:15.45 | Obscene | kk |
| 21:21.13 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 21:21.55 | Lepton | JademusSreg, did you read my message |
| 21:21.58 | Lepton | from yesterda |
| 21:22.21 | JademusSreg | ??? |
| 21:22.35 | unclesatan_ | was also testing some of the attacks that only work on enemy heroes but that's cool, thanks for testing |
| 21:22.55 | unclesatan_ | definitely appreciated |
| 21:23.16 | unclesatan_ | being introduced to an incomplete game is strange indeed, my testers know more of what is actually going on, sorry for all that |
| 21:24.44 | Obscene | np |
| 21:24.45 | Obscene | :P |
| 21:26.34 | Lepton | whats maximum string length in bank? |
| 21:26.42 | Lepton | hope its over 5k characters |
| 21:26.48 | Lepton | JademusSreg, I asked about |
| 21:26.53 | Lepton | the thing wwe had talked about |
| 21:27.02 | Lepton | hiding chat but not the PMs |
| 21:27.04 | Lepton | from screen |
| 21:27.10 | Lepton | I looked into it for a while |
| 21:27.21 | Lepton | and just cant figure out how to do it |
| 21:27.28 | Lepton | and am starting to think it might just not be possible |
| 21:27.51 | JademusSreg | There's no hard limit for string length. There -is- a total bank sync limit. |
| 21:28.46 | Lepton | well thats good to know |
| 21:28.54 | JademusSreg | Lep, if players want social chat features, just don't disable the social button and they can chat through the social interface. |
| 21:34.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster Moorhsum (moorhsum@dsl-kpobrasgw1-54fac5-136.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:41.32 | Lepton | not what I meant JademusSreg |
| 21:41.40 | Lepton | I dont disable chat button |
| 21:41.52 | Lepton | just the in game chat box |
| 21:42.10 | Lepton | in which the PMs are displayed |
| 21:42.24 | Lepton | in purple text |
| 21:42.27 | Lepton | you know what I mean? |
| 21:42.30 | JademusSreg | You know that you can use the social button in game to open the contact list and chat with people without using the chat bar, yeah? |
| 21:42.41 | MoonEater | he wants to regulate it |
| 21:42.47 | MoonEater | make it public |
| 21:42.50 | MoonEater | which isnt possible |
| 21:42.50 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:43.48 | Lepton | JademusSreg, YES I KNOW THAT |
| 21:44.13 | Lepton | im talking about the in game chat |
| 21:44.19 | Lepton | which displays your PMs |
| 21:44.33 | Lepton | so you dont have to click the social tab to know someone messaged you |
| 21:44.48 | Obscene | he wants to disable in-game messages from other players |
| 21:44.51 | Lepton | MoonEater, what are you talking about |
| 21:44.52 | Obscene | And only allow private messages |
| 21:45.07 | MoonEater | u cant intetcept income private messages |
| 21:45.08 | Lepton | Obscene brings some logic to the conversation |
| 21:45.09 | Lepton | Kappa |
| 21:45.15 | MoonEater | u can intercept some outgoing |
| 21:45.16 | Obscene | lol |
| 21:45.19 | Lepton | i dont wanna intercept them...... |
| 21:45.23 | Lepton | omg.. |
| 21:45.49 | MoonEater | well how do u get ur fancy private message box |
| 21:45.57 | MoonEater | u want pm between players in game? |
| 21:46.02 | Lepton | what are you talking about, again |
| 21:46.04 | Lepton | no....... |
| 21:46.14 | Lepton | have you ever played starcraft? |
| 21:46.17 | Lepton | when you are in a game |
| 21:46.20 | Lepton | theres the game chat |
| 21:46.24 | Lepton | in middle of the screen right? |
| 21:46.27 | Obscene | lol |
| 21:46.27 | MoonEater | yes |
| 21:46.34 | Lepton | and in that game chat, it shows your PMs |
| 21:46.48 | Lepton | now.. |
| 21:46.51 | MoonEater | pms from players in game |
| 21:46.53 | MoonEater | or out of game |
| 21:46.55 | MoonEater | they do bother |
| 21:46.58 | Obscene | Lepton, just disabling players ability to type messages entirely might do it if you dont need them to type anything |
| 21:46.58 | MoonEater | both* |
| 21:47.06 | JademusSreg | Let me double check my references, but I'm pretty sure that may not be an option. |
| 21:47.09 | Lepton | I want to hide game chat, but still allow players to receive their PMs |
| 21:47.11 | Obscene | They would still be able to reply in the social stuff |
| 21:47.20 | Lepton | MoonEater, out of the game |
| 21:47.23 | MoonEater | u cant |
| 21:47.28 | MoonEater | out of game is untouchable |
| 21:47.40 | JademusSreg | Which is why I suggested what I did. |
| 21:47.41 | Lepton | i dont wanna know what they chat |
| 21:47.45 | JademusSreg | But there might be a way. |
| 21:47.47 | Lepton | i just want to NOT hide it |
| 21:48.10 | MoonEater | ull have to have them open |
| 21:48.15 | MoonEater | a chat windows |
| 21:48.17 | Lepton | Obscene, thats a good idea, like making a custom chat bar |
| 21:48.21 | Lepton | and disabling the default one |
| 21:48.27 | Obscene | jademus how do you disable players ability to send chat messages to the message area? |
| 21:48.34 | Obscene | thats all hes asking |
| 21:48.34 | Lepton | but there would still be the player has left the game messages |
| 21:48.34 | Obscene | :P |
| 21:48.56 | JademusSreg | Might be doable by disabling a flag. Which is whay I'm checking. |
| 21:49.00 | JademusSreg | *what |
| 21:49.01 | Obscene | kk |
| 21:49.38 | JademusSreg | (Btw, I understood what he was asking; your arguments are comical, haha.) |
| 21:49.45 | Obscene | lol |
| 21:49.45 | Lepton | Kappa |
| 21:50.14 | Lepton | https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc1/373383_310171615679855_401257385_n.jpg |
| 21:50.37 | MoonEater | right |
| 21:51.11 | Triceron | I half expected his head to spin |
| 21:51.20 | Triceron | color me disappointed |
| 21:51.44 | Lepton | I saw one of those once |
| 21:51.46 | Lepton | hehe |
| 21:52.19 | Lepton | http://i.imgur.com/BLYxr.gif |
| 21:52.28 | Lepton | haha |
| 21:52.36 | Obscene | lol |
| 21:52.59 | Triceron | there we go |
| 21:53.39 | Lepton | I hope jade can save us on this one |
| 21:53.55 | Lepton | if not idk who to ask |
| 21:54.00 | Lepton | I tried everything :/ |
| 21:54.18 | JademusSreg | iirc, c_allianceIdChat alliance state only applies to allied chat, and not all chat. |
| 21:54.25 | JademusSreg | So that probably won't help. |
| 21:55.13 | Obscene | there should be a C_allchat then :P |
| 21:55.40 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:57.16 | JademusSreg | Anyway, as I suggested previously, a custom chat bar mediated by triggers should be possible. |
| 21:57.35 | JademusSreg | Assuming of course the game updates it correctly. |
| 21:58.01 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 22:09.58 | MoonEater | there i delagged the scripts as much as i could |
| 22:10.02 | MoonEater | runnign pretty well |
| 22:10.09 | MoonEater | theres an issue with one event firing too much |
| 22:10.15 | MoonEater | but i cant find a suitable work around |
| 22:10.26 | MoonEater | short of disabling the trigger at high speeds |
| 22:10.58 | MoonEater | and riskign glitches |
| 22:14.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (d5578687@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.87.134.135) |
| 22:15.13 | JademusSreg | Alright. |
| 22:15.41 | MoonEater | jade |
| 22:15.45 | MoonEater | i see on UI |
| 22:15.56 | MoonEater | minimap Render Priority |
| 22:16.01 | MoonEater | on actors |
| 22:16.07 | MoonEater | it has a custom value |
| 22:16.15 | MoonEater | i want to set this for low? |
| 22:16.34 | JademusSreg | Usually, one needn't worry about it at all. |
| 22:16.59 | MoonEater | oh well im also trying to set color of the icon |
| 22:17.01 | JademusSreg | I mean, most actor fields don't need to be set from the default. |
| 22:17.02 | MoonEater | to red |
| 22:17.05 | MoonEater | but it wont let me... |
| 22:19.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater|mobile (~AndChat64@168.sub-70-197-8.myvzw.com) |
| 22:19.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Princess_Lun (~IceChat77@user-105n0q0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 22:19.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Vailreth (kvirc@75.108.236.253) |
| 22:19.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster ScytheBlade1 (~Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 22:19.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster HP-X|Arthas (dv07lfk@salt.cs.umu.se) |
| 22:19.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lepton (~Lepton@unaffiliated/lepton) |
| 22:19.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster NickG365 (~Nick@cpe-71-74-246-43.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 22:19.54 | Lepton | so I guess its just not possible ? |
| 22:22.02 | Zolden | only hitler playing golf with jesus not possible |
| 22:22.52 | JademusSreg | Not unless you wanna try a custom chat bar, Lep. |
| 22:46.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-89.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 23:14.58 | Lepton | custom chat bar would require using "key is typed" event |
| 23:15.03 | Lepton | which would lag the shit out of my map |
| 23:18.59 | JademusSreg | Nope. |
| 23:19.11 | JademusSreg | Your assumption is mistaken. |
| 23:20.00 | MoonEater | jade how do i get the tech labs to act like they r attached? |
| 23:20.07 | MoonEater | birth play animation? |
| 23:21.04 | JademusSreg | Modify the baseline. |
| 23:21.36 | MoonEater | where is the base line events + |
| 23:21.37 | MoonEater | ? |
| 23:22.26 | MoonEater | oh i c it |
| 23:23.34 | JademusSreg | Modifying the baseline is useful when you have a specific animation state you want it to return, such as when standing idle. |
| 23:25.34 | Lepton | oh |
| 23:25.43 | Lepton | how do you do that? |
| 23:26.34 | Lepton | for the chat bar without key pressed |
| 23:29.16 | JademusSreg | Well, first, one should try templating a dialog control from it, see if that works. Also try dialog control hookup. If neither of those are feasible, that leaves emulating one (edit box and button + hotkeys). |
| 23:30.20 | JademusSreg | An editbox is simply a text entry frame, the contents of which can be retrieved as a string. |
| 23:30.29 | Lepton | yeah |
| 23:30.53 | Lepton | "templating a sialog controL" |
| 23:31.00 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 23:31.06 | Lepton | wondering what that means exactly |
| 23:31.14 | Lepton | dialog* |
| 23:32.48 | JademusSreg | Exactly what it says on the tin. https://pastee.org/qd6a8 |
| 23:33.04 | JademusSreg | Scroll down to DialogControlCreate and notice the functions under it. |
| 23:35.06 | MoonEater | jade |
| 23:35.19 | MoonEater | nvm |
| 23:36.13 | JademusSreg | The first parameter, where the identifier is either dialog or panel, is the container. The type parameter is the type of dialog control it is, which must be from the Control types (c_triggerControlTypeblahblah) constant pseudo-enum; where templates and hookups are concerned, this must match the layout frame type. |
| 23:36.43 | JademusSreg | Match in the sense the frame type needs to be comparable to the frame type of the corresponding dialog control. |
| 23:37.35 | JademusSreg | inTemplate parameter is the layout Desc path to the frame template/frame instance. |
| 23:39.02 | JademusSreg | Templates effectively copy a frame template to make a new dialog control instance. Hookups hook into existing frames, more or less, exposing the layout frame to the dialog control API. |
| 23:40.06 | Lepton | ah |
| 23:40.16 | JademusSreg | And in case you're not familiar with panels, it's a dialog control type that acts as a container of dialog controls, similar to a dialog. |
| 23:40.53 | Lepton | thats interresting |
| 23:41.10 | JademusSreg | They are pretty much better than dialogs in every way. |
| 23:41.21 | Lepton | o rly |
| 23:41.30 | Lepton | what are the main advantages? |
| 23:42.07 | JademusSreg | As you can tell from the dialog API, the only dialog property that is player-instanced is visibility. DialogSetVisible (int dialog, playergroup players, bool isVisible); |
| 23:42.31 | JademusSreg | Which means of all the dialog properties, only its visibility can be set per-player. |
| 23:43.46 | JademusSreg | Compare to dialog controls (which includes panels), note that nearly all of the set/get property functions have a playergroup/player parameter, which means pretty much everything about a dialog control can be modified per-player. |
| 23:44.34 | JademusSreg | So moving a dialog per player usually means making a copy for each player, which is silly and complicates code. |
| 23:45.40 | JademusSreg | A panel, however, fulfills the same purpose, and since its properties are player instanced, one panel can be used for all players rather than inefficiently making copies. You can move that shit all over, no problem. |
| 23:48.13 | JademusSreg | Anyway, most people aren't aware of panels, I guess? It's better to use a single fullscreen dialog, set image/background visible to false, and use panels to contain everything else. |
| 23:52.50 | JademusSreg | Yeah, can't think of a single reason to ever use more than a single global dialog. |
| 23:52.51 | JademusSreg | brb |
