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| 01:03.44 | *** topic/#sc2mapster is http://sc2mapster.com | sc2mapster bnet2 channel | WCS Partnership for eSports g0g0! | We want your broken maps! http://bit.ly/aU9AgC | This channel is logged, via purl |
| 01:38.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Psywisp (d179cb3f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.121.203.63) |
| 02:07.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster MoonEater (6c586101@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.88.97.1) |
| 02:07.22 | MoonEater | anyone out there? |
| 02:17.54 | nooblark | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:47.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster herolief (yiffrium@wireless-218-19.wireless.umbc.edu) |
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| 03:19.58 | JademusSreg | Zoop. |
| 03:20.48 | Vailreth | hello |
| 03:22.31 | Kueken | The calling of the common Jademus: Zoop |
| 03:22.45 | Kueken | the sub-species Sreg likes to add a . |
| 03:23.03 | Kueken | thats how you can distinguish the 2 |
| 03:23.49 | Vailreth | heh |
| 03:25.56 | JademusSreg | Yes, we're a genus from a procedurally generated planet in Starbound. Managed to make our escape and aggregate into a collective identity which demonstrates, through nuanced grammatical variations, the distinct personalities of those constituents currently leading the collective's cognition. |
| 03:34.44 | Vailreth | Jade do you have some time to help me set up the wasd controls afforded by your library i seem to be having a bit of trouble |
| 03:35.23 | Vailreth | i think once i get a handle on that much i can get the rest |
| 03:37.46 | JademusSreg | Alright. |
| 03:38.24 | JademusSreg | The EXAMPLE folder contains a GUI implementation of the same way I use the system. |
| 03:38.34 | Vailreth | sorry to trouble you over my inability to make sense of it . |
| 03:38.52 | JademusSreg | So understanding what and how it works should clarify things. |
| 03:40.45 | JademusSreg | Instead of triggers or other silly things, it calls functions directly; those functions are added to the array of functions called every update for each player with the OperatorAdd action. |
| 03:41.52 | JademusSreg | Of course, the OperatorAdd action doesn't (yet) have a custom comment, so once you add the action to an action set, like in the Controller trigger, it displays as Custom Script, but it is still the action. |
| 03:42.37 | JademusSreg | You'll note that each of those have "prefix_SomeShitCheck,prefix_SomeShitAction" |
| 03:43.14 | JademusSreg | And that the part following the prefix is the name of a GUI action in the EXAMPLE subfolders. |
| 03:43.34 | JademusSreg | Those are their identifiers in the galaxy script. |
| 03:44.30 | JademusSreg | And they are added as a pair; one to check input states, the other to run the action if it passes successfully, rather like a WC3 trigger. |
| 03:44.37 | JademusSreg | Superficially, anyway. |
| 03:45.44 | JademusSreg | Follow most of that so far? |
| 03:46.09 | Vailreth | i think so. |
| 03:49.01 | JademusSreg | (There's no mechanical reason the check needs to be separate from the action; it's more about readability and compartmentalization, along the lines of the principle each unit of code should have a single, clearly defined purpose for which it is responsible.) |
| 03:50.26 | Vailreth | ok |
| 03:50.27 | JademusSreg | You can think of the check as analogous to wrapping the action in an if GUI action thing, if that helps. |
| 03:51.20 | JademusSreg | What further may I elucidate? |
| 03:52.07 | Vailreth | i am looking at the example and wondering why controller is disabled ... |
| 03:52.24 | JademusSreg | Oh, so it would serve as an example, is all. |
| 03:52.33 | Vailreth | ah |
| 03:52.58 | JademusSreg | In case someone left it in there, it wouldn't fuck with their own code. |
| 03:53.29 | Vailreth | i think i am getting the How its works but there is a disconnect in how i should use it, for that i apollogize i dont have a properly finctioning mind |
| 03:54.15 | JademusSreg | No worries. |
| 03:54.50 | JademusSreg | So, it should be used in a manner depicted in the example. |
| 03:56.14 | JademusSreg | Separate (or glommed together if one is a masochist) checks and actions to provide responses to inputs. |
| 03:56.36 | JademusSreg | Looks at the Sprint subfolder, SprintCheck and SprintAction. |
| 03:57.15 | Vailreth | ok. |
| 03:57.51 | JademusSreg | Describe SprintCheck as you understand it. |
| 03:59.41 | Vailreth | as i undertsand it it check that there is a unit set to the varible Player avatar[player] and that that player is engaging the right mouse button down i believe |
| 04:00.20 | JademusSreg | And it returns that boolean value. |
| 04:00.32 | Vailreth | ah right |
| 04:00.53 | JademusSreg | Yes, that is a mechanical grasp of it, quite accurate. |
| 04:01.09 | Vailreth | sorry we are getting a little past my usuall time to sleep. |
| 04:02.07 | Kueken | 6 in the morning here, time to wake up |
| 04:02.14 | JademusSreg | In terms of purpose, it checks the player avatar of the player to ensure the unit isn't null (a nonexistent unit can't do much of anything). |
| 04:02.40 | Vailreth | i think i understand most of how it works but translating it into my own GUI triggering is proving to be problematic. |
| 04:03.57 | JademusSreg | So if that passes, it then checks PlayerMouseButton (which returns bool), and if it is in an enabled state, it's returned, which is to say the check returns as a success. |
| 04:04.28 | JademusSreg | Then the SprintAction is run. |
| 04:04.49 | JademusSreg | What is probably confusing to you is how these are even being run. |
| 04:06.09 | Vailreth | i believe that is the case |
| 04:06.56 | JademusSreg | But explaining the technical details wouldn't much help you with that. Instead, you can always be certain that the parameters are provided; it's called for each player. |
| 04:07.31 | JademusSreg | So it's not "which player is this", it's "this is being called for all players". |
| 04:07.56 | JademusSreg | Same as if it were put in a for each / pick each player loop in GUI. |
| 04:09.28 | Vailreth | i see |
| 04:10.08 | JademusSreg | May I provide further clarification? |
| 04:10.19 | Vailreth | yes. |
| 04:12.33 | JademusSreg | So if SprintCheck is a success, that player parameter will next be passed to SprintAction. If SprintCheck failed, it won't. So from GUI thinking, it's a big For Each Player Loop, with an If SprintCheck == true Then SprintAction. |
| 04:13.52 | Vailreth | yes i undertsand, but what i am having touble with is knowing if i need to build the checks and actions into my own gui and if so how? |
| 04:15.05 | Vailreth | its not how they work but implementing them where my brain disconnects |
| 04:15.56 | Vailreth | that you were able to make this i find a bit impressive |
| 04:16.08 | JademusSreg | You'd make individual "SomethingCheck" functions and "SomethingAction" actions for each input-response relationship. You can complete ignore those actions, and the Controller trigger, or reuse some of those (KeyMove and CamFace are handy), or copy them, or delete them, since they're just examples. |
| 04:16.56 | JademusSreg | The way it works is more important than the thing itself, and the system will run just fine without the EXAMPLE. |
| 04:17.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa (504ed72d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.78.215.45) |
| 04:17.32 | Mexa | hey |
| 04:17.44 | JademusSreg | Yeh, Mexaling. |
| 04:19.26 | Mexa | I decided to enter the Ludum Dare 48h compo |
| 04:19.27 | JademusSreg | Ah, just noticed the remark regarding your appraisal. Thanks, Vail. |
| 04:19.38 | Mexa | but I only had 4 hours :P |
| 04:19.39 | Vailreth | welcome. |
| 04:19.56 | JademusSreg | It took days of research to figure it out, but yes, managed to crudely implement funcref for GUI. |
| 04:20.28 | Mexa | Jademus, got a little time? I'd appreciate some feedback |
| 04:20.39 | JademusSreg | Perhaps. =D |
| 04:20.48 | Mexa | http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-27/?action=preview&uid=27586 |
| 04:21.21 | JademusSreg | Requisite question: is there audio? Is it mutable? |
| 04:21.33 | Mexa | No audio |
| 04:21.43 | Mexa | I didn't have time :D |
| 04:21.44 | JademusSreg | Thank goodness. |
| 04:21.53 | JademusSreg | Watching Dexter with my wife/ |
| 04:21.59 | Mexa | ah |
| 04:22.08 | JademusSreg | Multiscreen setup, so yay. |
| 04:22.24 | Mexa | I hope the mouse wont be in the way tho :P |
| 04:23.08 | JademusSreg | wonders how it will respond to my touch-capable graphics tablet. |
| 04:23.38 | Mexa | hmm |
| 04:23.58 | Mexa | good question |
| 04:27.06 | JademusSreg | 53 second try. |
| 04:27.38 | JademusSreg | 4th try, I just flipped the board upside down and sailed into the infinite abyss. |
| 04:27.50 | Mexa | ;D |
| 04:27.56 | JademusSreg | So theoretically, I could get all the blocks. |
| 04:28.22 | Mexa | It should reset after a while |
| 04:28.28 | Mexa | because of gravity |
| 04:29.21 | JademusSreg | I flipped it entirely over, so doesn't appear that will be an issue. |
| 04:30.36 | Mexa | aww, shoot |
| 04:30.37 | JademusSreg | Eventually the memory addresses representing its position will overflow, so maybe you'll get me in the end, Mexa. |
| 04:30.47 | Mexa | haha |
| 04:30.48 | Mexa | :D |
| 04:31.25 | Mexa | it might take a minute |
| 04:31.36 | Mexa | but then it should reset I think :D |
| 04:32.03 | JademusSreg | But it appears that with a wave-like mouse movement, one could hop to avoid doom. |
| 04:32.31 | Mexa | You mean hopping on the player grid? |
| 04:32.41 | JademusSreg | Yeah. |
| 04:32.49 | Mexa | It's intentional |
| 04:33.37 | JademusSreg | Yeah, still running, hasn't reset yet. |
| 04:33.49 | Mexa | oh, well that... |
| 04:33.52 | Mexa | Yeah |
| 04:33.55 | JademusSreg | My sphere is bidding its time, waiting to strike. |
| 04:34.06 | Mexa | Should've constrained it in a cube :P |
| 04:34.25 | JademusSreg | You mean the loss-bounds? |
| 04:34.33 | Mexa | yeah |
| 04:36.07 | JademusSreg | Haha, my ball returned, but fell into a hole. |
| 04:36.20 | Mexa | :P |
| 04:36.32 | Mexa | What do you think of the controls? |
| 04:37.46 | Mexa | My friend pointed out it was a bit difficult with my perspective. And that it wasn't intuitive that gravity is inwards towards the depth of the screen, rather than down. |
| 04:38.13 | Mexa | *top-down perspective |
| 04:38.48 | JademusSreg | Feels like it, hrm, needs more sensitivity. Or rather sensitivity relative to the rotational matrix and the stage bounds. |
| 04:39.10 | JademusSreg | It's a challenge to articulate. |
| 04:39.32 | Mexa | yeah |
| 04:40.44 | JademusSreg | One may need high sensitivity the closer it is to the initial axis/axes. |
| 04:41.40 | JademusSreg | Eitherway, feels wierd I'd need to move the mouse so much to rotate the board to a near-horizontal state. |
| 04:41.45 | JademusSreg | Weird. |
| 04:41.47 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 04:42.26 | Mexa | yeah, that might be a good idea |
| 04:43.25 | Mexa | I think I understand the issues |
| 04:43.42 | Mexa | well, it was fun making anyway :D |
| 04:44.00 | JademusSreg | But if you're interested in developing further, from the primary mechanic, more complex level gemoetries would be stimulating, no loss conditions would be nice. It's kinda like DaBlob if it were played on Mario-world-vanishing blocks. |
| 04:45.34 | Mexa | yeah. Tho what would happend if you fall outside if there's no loss condition? |
| 04:46.09 | JademusSreg | Not many games make use of setting rotation as a mechanic, except those primitive childrens toys, I suppose. |
| 04:46.29 | JademusSreg | Gravity, I'd expect. |
| 04:46.52 | Mexa | that's true |
| 04:47.10 | JademusSreg | Or rather, a gravity-like curvature of resistance to rotational/perspective gravity. |
| 04:47.45 | Vailreth | i think i am doing this wrong but its progress i have my unit moving but it moves one bit per keypress instand of continuously while holding it down. |
| 04:47.49 | JademusSreg | Dragity. |
| 04:47.59 | Mexa | Yeah, it's a cool concept |
| 04:48.06 | JademusSreg | Vail, that' |
| 04:48.12 | JademusSreg | *that's interesting. |
| 04:49.01 | Vailreth | i ran in to a similar issue with an older wrapped movement system given to me by Flying Spartula .. |
| 04:49.06 | Mexa | Jademus, then what one would the player race against? Fastest time to break down the world? |
| 04:49.06 | JademusSreg | Mexa, the first setting that occured to me was something more like HalfLife Xen, Mario Galaxy, BlockBreaker, Sonic The Hedgehog Emerald Choas Dream/ |
| 04:49.10 | Vailreth | never solved it |
| 04:49.30 | JademusSreg | *Chaos |
| 04:50.07 | JademusSreg | Anyway, can you show me what you've done in the GUI, Vail? |
| 04:50.09 | Mexa | Oh you mean the special stages? |
| 04:50.14 | Mexa | in sonic 3? |
| 04:50.28 | JademusSreg | I forget which. |
| 04:50.56 | Mexa | The one where you are collecting blue spheres that turn into red which you have to avoid |
| 04:51.24 | Mexa | And you're moving on a sphere yourself |
| 04:52.08 | JademusSreg | Probably. The world rotates and switches when you touch the switch things. There are colored blocks you try to break, and so forth. |
| 04:52.19 | Vailreth | it may be switfer just to explain i have a mapinitilazing trigger that sets the PlayerAvatar Variable[1] to a unit on the map, then i have a any player pressed any key down allowing Shift Ctrl and Alt with you KeyMove function, i entirely expect this to be wrong |
| 04:52.29 | Mexa | I've never played HalfLife Xen. And when it comes to Sonic, the new Lost Worlds game borrows alot from Mario Galaxy, so that's probably a relevant inspiration source too |
| 04:53.00 | Vailreth | the KeyMove is set to triggering play. |
| 04:53.18 | Mexa | Jademus, oh, hm... That might not be the same one |
| 04:53.21 | JademusSreg | Vail, I'd need a screencap, paste of the GUI, or the map to understand. GUI is bad enough to read, much less parse from informal language. |
| 04:53.35 | Vailreth | ok |
| 04:54.10 | JademusSreg | Mexa, not concerned. Point is that it stimulated, elicited some interesting ideas. |
| 04:54.57 | JademusSreg | I meant the Xen stages of Valve's much-lauded FPS Half-Life. |
| 04:55.45 | JademusSreg | brbi5 |
| 04:56.04 | Mexa | Oh, yeah I see what you mean |
| 04:57.58 | Vailreth | https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzged75g7qapnvj/GUI.jpg |
| 04:58.06 | Vailreth | oops |
| 04:59.45 | Mexa | By the way Jademus, thanks for the feedback |
| 05:00.21 | JademusSreg | (I have more, but am a bit busy, haha. And no problem.) |
| 05:01.08 | Mexa | I have to go and get some sleep anyway |
| 05:01.11 | Mexa | But thanks :D |
| 05:01.37 | Mexa | See you around guys |
| 05:01.44 | Lepton | is there a way to opent he campaign maps with editor? |
| 05:01.52 | Mexa | gnight jademus |
| 05:02.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-151-253.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 05:03.42 | Vailreth | lept yes |
| 05:08.04 | Lepton | hhow?? D: |
| 05:08.10 | Kueken | what germans do to pass the time: |
| 05:08.11 | Kueken | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLFxb08lBJs&t=13m30s |
| 05:09.25 | Vailreth | there is a tab in the open files dialog box that should be labled campaign |
| 05:10.05 | Lepton | nice |
| 05:10.55 | Lepton | ty |
| 05:11.24 | Vailreth | welcome |
| 05:13.47 | Lepton | blizzard usues only triggers |
| 05:13.54 | Lepton | and calls thre down with an action |
| 05:14.07 | Lepton | I always thought this was bad |
| 05:14.17 | Lepton | i prefer making custom actions |
| 05:14.20 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 05:14.30 | Vailreth | welcome back |
| 05:14.44 | Lepton | and they dont use arrays on variables |
| 05:14.55 | JademusSreg | Alright. Definitely the wrong approach. |
| 05:15.04 | Vailreth | i figured. |
| 05:15.04 | Lepton | variableblahblah1 |
| 05:15.06 | Lepton | variableblahblah2 |
| 05:15.08 | Lepton | variableblahblah3 |
| 05:15.10 | Lepton | o.o |
| 05:15.34 | JademusSreg | I think I'll need to improve my demo map soon, but first let's resolve this issue. =D |
| 05:15.43 | Kueken | sounds legit :D |
| 05:16.07 | JademusSreg | First, you don't need any such triggers. The system already handles all of that. |
| 05:16.09 | Kueken | thats how the common Jademus behaves in his natural habitat |
| 05:16.35 | Vailreth | i thought it should but couldnt get it to work |
| 05:16.46 | JademusSreg | The only trigger you'd need is a Map Init event registered trigger which uses the OperatorAdd action. |
| 05:17.10 | JademusSreg | Which is to say, a trigger like Controller in EXAMPLE. |
| 05:17.35 | Kueken | it is a rare sight, seeing the common Jaademus trying to interact with other species |
| 05:17.58 | Kueken | like trying to teach mere humans his own thought process |
| 05:18.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 05:18.12 | JademusSreg | So let's start by deleting everything you added, and reimport the library if any changes were made to it. |
| 05:18.30 | Kueken | :D |
| 05:18.46 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 05:18.47 | Vailreth | no changes made.. i dont know enough of what im doing to fiddle around with something that isnt mine like this |
| 05:18.48 | Kueken | basically a polite "you suck, everything you did was wrong, start over" |
| 05:18.57 | Vailreth | right |
| 05:19.07 | JademusSreg | We'll take a more direct approach, and use EXAMPLE directly. |
| 05:20.05 | Kueken | guys, I feel like all I am doing is disrupting and distracting, please tell me if its too much |
| 05:20.20 | JademusSreg | Enable Controller, and add an action to its set that creates a movable unit for whichever player you're playing. |
| 05:20.33 | JademusSreg | Kueken, not at all, it provides much needed levity. |
| 05:20.54 | Kueken | made me google a wrod again :/ |
| 05:20.57 | Kueken | *word |
| 05:21.13 | JademusSreg | Usually, I'd provide levity and technical assistance, but this requires I route power away from my Jocular Field Condensors. |
| 05:21.44 | Kueken | and another one -.- |
| 05:21.49 | Kueken | you are on a streak |
| 05:23.25 | Vailreth | ok |
| 05:23.33 | JademusSreg | Set variable PlayerAvatar[yourplayer], of course. Ensure all the components of EXAMPLE are enabled, too, then test. |
| 05:26.39 | Vailreth | when i test the unit is not created nor is a preplaced unit ordered to move when i press down a key |
| 05:27.03 | JademusSreg | Kueken, it seems my loquaciousness never ceases to amuse. |
| 05:27.22 | Kueken | now you're doing it on purpose |
| 05:28.14 | Kueken | those are not commonly used words right? |
| 05:28.32 | JademusSreg | Yes, but it's also an appropriate lexical application, so it's not even a contrivance. |
| 05:29.29 | Kueken | the common Jademus playing with his prey |
| 05:29.41 | JademusSreg | Vail, it will perhaps be more efficient for us both if I elaborate a bit on the demo and the documentation, which I intend to do roughly tomorrowish. |
| 05:29.57 | Vailreth | ok |
| 05:30.03 | JademusSreg | So you're free to sleep. =D |
| 05:30.22 | Vailreth | thanks |
| 05:32.30 | Vailreth | later then |
| 05:36.31 | Lepton | I get that when trying to save a new map |
| 05:36.32 | Lepton | "Local file is not available (Core: a required object could not be found): |
| 05:36.32 | Lepton | " |
| 05:36.41 | Lepton | anyone knows what that means? |
| 05:37.13 | Lepton | then it says unable to create archive |
| 05:37.30 | ArcanePariah | So it appears the Almight Jade is present and graces us with his knowledge... ok I suck at this, so anyhow, Jade, how do site movers work, I am trying to better understand how the colossus beams work, my map uses them but I feel a in poor fashion, simply because they copy pasted it and tweaked it. |
| 05:39.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 05:41.26 | JademusSreg | Hi thar. |
| 05:42.21 | JademusSreg | Personally, I loath the way site movers are used in standard data. |
| 05:42.33 | JademusSreg | And colossus beam's silly approach in particular. |
| 05:43.40 | JademusSreg | Because it absurdly attempts to separately trace the same line already being defined by effect positions. |
| 05:44.21 | ArcanePariah | What are the supposed to do. From my examination, it seems to indicate that the site mover serves to change the impact point for a beam actor, and this give the appearance of a the beam sweepign across, as opposed to it firing a set of beams for each impact point along the persistent |
| 05:44.56 | JademusSreg | It would be like having two systems which describe the same structure but for some reason refuse to share information. |
| 05:45.41 | JademusSreg | Sure, you can do that and hope you manage to fudge it just enough to look believable. |
| 05:46.21 | JademusSreg | Or you can move the site to the position of each effect in the tree and let the engine interpolate between them. =D |
| 05:51.21 | JademusSreg | [in the tone of vaudevillian burlesque] Hey Kueken, how do get the concent of Saunt Edhar? [beat] Praxis, praxis, praxis. [band plays out over laughter] |
| 05:51.34 | JademusSreg | *how do you get |
| 05:52.38 | Kueken | who is Saunt Edhar? |
| 05:53.03 | Kueken | damn it do I need to google the entire sentence now? |
| 05:53.12 | JademusSreg | Anyway, Arc, if you insist on imitating their dreadful approach, it's really just about fudging it so it appears to line up with the positions over each period. |
| 05:53.38 | JademusSreg | Kueken, wouldn't help, since I craft my own humor. |
| 05:53.50 | JademusSreg | But googling a few words at a time would work. |
| 05:53.58 | ArcanePariah | I'm just trying to rectify it, becuase the current one doesn't work and my beams appear to jump, as they move |
| 05:56.02 | Kueken | mover sites dont work if they are not based on the colossus weapon one, for some reason |
| 05:57.15 | ArcanePariah | Well, from looking at it, there is a reason of sorts, the mover is created, and when it arrives at the next location, it signals the beam it has arrived, the beam then takes that signal, and sends a message back to the mover to move |
| 05:57.23 | JademusSreg | I tend to handle moving beams by the means I described above; makes more sense to draw from the data available than to fudge it. I use the term "fudge" repeatedly because the devs did in the notes they left in the XML comments about the colossus beam. |
| 05:57.36 | ArcanePariah | SO in effect, the mover is always lagging behind the effect |
| 05:57.46 | ArcanePariah | no pun intended |
| 05:57.51 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 05:58.08 | Kueken | well, the colossus weapon does the same |
| 05:58.18 | Kueken | it actually uses a persistent to delay the damage |
| 05:58.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.82.177.139.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 05:58.53 | ArcanePariah | Ahh, so the mover is always behind the impact effect, but the delay of a persistent compensates for it |
| 05:59.00 | Kueken | yeah |
| 05:59.06 | ArcanePariah | making the damage and visual line up time wise |
| 05:59.12 | JademusSreg | Fudging it. |
| 05:59.13 | Kueken | somewhat yes |
| 05:59.22 | Kueken | as dirty as it gets :D |
| 05:59.36 | JademusSreg | Switch to XML view, see if the notes are still there. =D |
| 05:59.44 | Kueken | I read them |
| 05:59.53 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, very kludgey since you have to calculate the persistent speed and the persistent delay in relation to the mover speed and acceleration |
| 05:59.55 | Kueken | pretty funny |
| 06:00.09 | Kueken | I don't think they calculated anything |
| 06:00.35 | Kueken | "try 0.1 - naah too little - 0.2 - that seems okay" |
| 06:01.34 | ArcanePariah | What notes are in relation to colossus |
| 06:01.40 | JademusSreg | Anyway, I do something much funnier and a bit hacky. I just say fuckit, and create new shit for each one, and the engine interpolates it automagically. |
| 06:01.51 | ArcanePariah | Seems in the current version, there are no notes |
| 06:01.56 | Kueken | a new beam for each interval? |
| 06:02.11 | JademusSreg | Or rather, that's how I handled it for the XelNaga AI Boss demo. |
| 06:02.15 | ArcanePariah | Mine does that and it looks fugly as hell, the beams look like they jump |
| 06:02.27 | JademusSreg | What's the period? =D |
| 06:02.39 | Kueken | when I compared it, it seemed to me like there was a difference, a noticeable stutter. |
| 06:02.46 | Kueken | I might be imagining it, though |
| 06:02.54 | JademusSreg | Maybe. |
| 06:02.58 | ArcanePariah | 0.5 seconds, and I can't make it faster, it is a star of beams out of the boss, and the beam length is 30 |
| 06:03.26 | ArcanePariah | We already use a shit ton of persistens to make it work already |
| 06:03.29 | Kueken | but if you use a moving beam, it needs a faster interval, right? |
| 06:03.30 | JademusSreg | Time to dig into my old data from 2 years ago, which somehow still works, so not a bad hack. |
| 06:03.41 | JademusSreg | It needs 0.03125 |
| 06:03.48 | Kueken | as damage/scan interval I mean |
| 06:03.52 | ArcanePariah | Well right now it jumps, the mover doesn't work afaict |
| 06:03.58 | ArcanePariah | Well, heres how it goes lol |
| 06:04.27 | ArcanePariah | 5 persistents at the source, which each have a 0.5 interval, and periodic offsets to create a circle, 30 periods |
| 06:04.37 | ArcanePariah | and each period creates 2 more persistents |
| 06:04.43 | ArcanePariah | with the offsets to create a line |
| 06:04.53 | ArcanePariah | at 0.5 distance intervals |
| 06:04.59 | Kueken | lost me |
| 06:05.05 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, its complicated as hell |
| 06:05.17 | JademusSreg | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1049551/JademusDemo.SC2Map |
| 06:05.34 | ArcanePariah | Just play NotD, fight Cronus in Alpha company |
| 06:05.39 | Kueken | Jades Jack-of-all-Trades map |
| 06:05.48 | ArcanePariah | Or let me see if I have a replay somewhere |
| 06:05.49 | JademusSreg | Yes, thus the name. |
| 06:05.50 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 06:05.54 | Kueken | or rather the map to rule all maps? |
| 06:06.05 | JademusSreg | Pretty much. |
| 06:06.16 | ArcanePariah | Basically the effect is to create a star wheel of lasers around the boss |
| 06:06.57 | JademusSreg | I work on it as one might a stone garden or bonsai. |
| 06:07.08 | Kueken | and those lasers should move, but don't do damage on contact, only at impact points? |
| 06:07.18 | ArcanePariah | They do damage on contact |
| 06:07.37 | Kueken | then they need a low interval |
| 06:08.13 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, probably, for now though, the beams do fairly heavy damage, so its fine that players only get glanced by the beam once or twice |
| 06:08.23 | Kueken | Jade, are you sure a 1732 interval over a 1/16 one makes a difference for collision detection? |
| 06:08.35 | Kueken | *1/32 |
| 06:08.37 | ArcanePariah | On higher difficulty it does 2x damage, which tends to kill the unwary |
| 06:09.02 | JademusSreg | Not for collision. It's needed to properly interpolate for some reason. |
| 06:09.09 | Kueken | with a 0.5 interval, units might pass through beams without getting hit |
| 06:09.19 | ArcanePariah | Basically I have 5 persistents that spawn persistents that draw a line and do damage with damage effect with a small search |
| 06:09.23 | ArcanePariah | Yes, which is fine |
| 06:09.39 | JademusSreg | Even the colossus beam persistent uses, oddly, 0.03125 periods. |
| 06:09.44 | ArcanePariah | Because on higher difficulties, he fires 2 beams, one afteer another, one rotates clockwise, other counterclockwise |
| 06:10.03 | JademusSreg | And that's part of how I discovered it and solved an issue with my beams. |
| 06:10.10 | ArcanePariah | and its in a zone where you can lose sight of him easily, so you will have little warning when he fires |
| 06:10.14 | Kueken | interesting |
| 06:10.48 | ArcanePariah | The beams themselves can be seen through FoW to keep it fair, but dodging both can be tricky, and standing in one on higher difficulty for more then 3-4 seconds will kill |
| 06:11.38 | Kueken | you could probably attach the beams to units or missiles |
| 06:11.40 | ArcanePariah | Hes also difficult to kill because he periodically spawns creep and while on creep he's immune to damage |
| 06:11.44 | Kueken | might simplify things |
| 06:11.57 | ArcanePariah | Maybe, though I don't want to break what we already have :P |
| 06:12.01 | ArcanePariah | It works, just looks jerky |
| 06:12.47 | ArcanePariah | I also probably need to add something to his attack to indicate the AoE... |
| 06:13.08 | JademusSreg | Anyway, as said, I've not modifed the XelNaga AI Boss beam-related actor data in roughly 2 years, and it still works, but in part that's because I keep the speed, and thus the period, low. |
| 06:14.17 | JademusSreg | Greater the speed/period/distance, greater the dependency on site mover features to properly interpolate the visuals. |
| 06:14.55 | ArcanePariah | Its interesting, the colossus beam actor technically creates the actor several times, but it uses the Term to stop it from creating anything beyond the intial beam per effect tree |
| 06:15.09 | ArcanePariah | Now that makes sense, why it has that Term |
| 06:15.48 | ArcanePariah | Same with the mover |
| 06:16.12 | JademusSreg | Yes, which led me to new, hacky approaches. =D |
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| 06:20.41 | JademusSreg | The hacky approach works at lower speeds/periods, but it doesn't scale well at all. If you have faster beams, you'll likely rely on site movers, effect spam to signal, whatever needs to be done to get that sweet curvature. |
| 06:34.03 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, mine works, at least I think it does, and yeah, my beam is wider then the damage search, but the beam is definitely lagging the damage effect, units get hit on the front side of the beam, the middle, but not the back side |
| 06:34.38 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... guess I can go with Blizzards approacha and just time delay all the damage |
| 06:35.00 | Kueken | just du it right :D |
| 06:35.22 | ArcanePariah | easy enough, but interesing how the async nature of actors and the sync nature of effects end up colliding and producing ugly hacks |
| 06:35.34 | Kueken | they changed it at some point, at first it would happen that you blinked with a stalker out of a colossus beam before it hit you |
| 06:35.57 | Kueken | and they still died about .5 sec after reaching their blink destination |
| 06:36.27 | Kueken | because the persistent didn't check the ground, just delayed the damage to the unit |
| 06:36.33 | ArcanePariah | Yeah |
| 06:36.41 | Kueken | was pretty funny to watch |
| 06:36.44 | ArcanePariah | It still is that way, afaict, but I ought to look again |
| 06:37.26 | ArcanePariah | yep, still is that way, just a 0.25 delay between impact and damage |
| 06:38.06 | Kueken | yes, but it delays the ground check, it doesn't hit the unit and then damages it .25 seconds later, even though it isn't in the area anymore |
| 06:39.49 | ArcanePariah | How so? From looking at the current effect tree, it does the persisent with offsets, each period does a search in a tiny area, and the effect on those found is the delay, followed by damage |
| 06:40.10 | ArcanePariah | So as long as you blink right after the search find the units, you will will take damage |
| 06:40.33 | ArcanePariah | A 0.25 second window to still blink, but still get hit |
| 06:42.24 | ArcanePariah | Only way to avoid that problem would be to somehow use a validator to compare unit distance traveled and make sure it was less then like 1 |
| 06:42.52 | ArcanePariah | Or delay and run the search after again? |
| 06:43.44 | ArcanePariah | Actually... instead of creating the persistent on the target unit of the search, create it at the target point instead and do a damge effect with an aoe of same value of search |
| 06:43.46 | JademusSreg | Project forward. |
| 06:44.37 | ArcanePariah | I dunno, I think I'm just ranting, and also I'm assuming because of the tiny delay, very rarely will a human blink after the search effect hits,but before the damage hits |
| 06:44.48 | ArcanePariah | its faster then a human can react |
| 06:44.57 | JademusSreg | Which is to say, don't delay the damage, just project forward or otherwise smear the aoe over the space covered for the period. |
| 06:45.55 | ArcanePariah | So... instead of a create persisten with a delay, a persitent with an offset in the direction being traveled, and do the damage there |
| 06:46.10 | ArcanePariah | or in this case, behind? |
| 06:46.24 | ArcanePariah | so that it matches the lagging beam actor |
| 06:46.41 | JademusSreg | Apply the effect over the projection/smear, [do actor shit] at each effect but cap it or otherwise signal the mover, whichever. |
| 06:47.32 | JademusSreg | I aim for presentational and mechanic consistency. =D Ahead or behind is unacceptable. |
| 06:48.03 | ArcanePariah | I find it interesting that persistents seem to serve as catchall in many instances, often times just serving as delay, as seen with the collosus, the zealot, the nuke, etc |
| 06:48.05 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 06:50.56 | ArcanePariah | Next question for jade when he gets back, what purpose is the cost fields on a behavior, there does not seem to be any field in behaviors that are affected by cost, and the only thing I can think of for them is to be a reference point with links for other effects/abilites |
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| 06:51.25 | ArcanePariah | Or is the cost related to the behavior being applied? |
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| 07:02.21 | Kueken | last time I played around with it, it didn't seem to have any effect whatsoever |
| 07:02.36 | Kueken | but that might have changed in the last few patches |
| 07:02.47 | JademusSreg | noticed the moon had a double halo; aesthetic qualities appreciated; speculated the beam of the light reflected from the moon passed through two significantly differing atmospheric material states, likely a disparity in temperature, then humidity. |
| 07:03.14 | JademusSreg | I have multiple suspicions as to why behaviors have so many cost fields. |
| 07:03.59 | ArcanePariah | Well... it seems like the cost field is found on all behaviors/abilites/effects |
| 07:04.06 | ArcanePariah | And others |
| 07:04.07 | JademusSreg | The first is most direct; behaviors employ the SCost structure and thus have all its fields, but may not do anything with them. |
| 07:04.20 | ArcanePariah | Ahh... so extension with no application |
| 07:04.42 | JademusSreg | The second is that the links and link scopes for the cooldowns and charges are significant to behaviors, and the rest ignored. |
| 07:05.33 | JademusSreg | The third and least likely suspicion is that those links could potentially be used to dynamically modify, say, ability costs if correctly configured. |
| 07:06.36 | ArcanePariah | ... Bingo, now that I think of it, you could create behaviors after the fact and have abilites link to them, and by making the link on say, the unitm you can do exactly what you describe, add a behavior to effectively alter the cost of the unit, no upgrades needed |
| 07:07.26 | JademusSreg | I'll consult The Voluminous Esoterically Formatted Apocryphal Archive Of Totally Actual True Facts, see if I find anything of note. |
| 07:07.40 | ArcanePariah | It would be how you would do a DotA style Agharims Scepter upgrades |
| 07:08.18 | ArcanePariah | Crete a behavior for each unit that can be upgraded by aghs scepter, create a set of them with validators and make that set the equip behavior for the item |
| 07:08.32 | ArcanePariah | Since many agh scepter upgrades in dota alter cooldowns and mana costs |
| 07:09.03 | ArcanePariah | Guess I might as well try it out, gimme a sec |
| 07:10.11 | Kueken | I would just use upgrades or catalogs for that though |
| 07:10.16 | Kueken | a lot less complicated |
| 07:10.17 | JademusSreg | I expect suspicion 2 is accurate, as Charge and Cooldown are explicitly defined with token expressions in the Core behavior XML. |
| 07:10.48 | Kueken | the costs for some fields have effects btw, for example the cost for the damage respone |
| 07:10.50 | JademusSreg | <SCost> <Charge Link="Behavior/##id##" Location="Behavior"/> <Cooldown Link="Behavior/##id##" Location="Behavior"/> </SCost> |
| 07:10.52 | Kueken | *response |
| 07:11.23 | ArcanePariah | Yes, but heres the drawback with upgrades, you either have to place a research abilite with all possible unit upgrades and select the right one, or use a trigger |
| 07:11.31 | ArcanePariah | in the case of Agh Scepter in DotA |
| 07:12.12 | ArcanePariah | But with a behavior, and an intial effect with validators, and then use a switch effect to select the correct one |
| 07:12.32 | ArcanePariah | makes it a one shot deal, and require 0 trigger, and 0 guessing |
| 07:12.55 | JademusSreg | Yes, one should ever aim to narrow one's scope to what is strictly necessary. Catalogs/upgrades are player-instanced and global, and if you want to modify one unit, it's not worth humoring unless there's no other alternative. |
| 07:13.44 | ArcanePariah | The main thing with the behavior approach is it much more scalable, just add the unit specific behavior with a unit type validator to the switch, and your done for addding a new agh upgrade |
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| 07:15.33 | ArcanePariah | I almost wonder if the damage response cost fields only go active when the damage response is running, as to create a damage response buff that say, increases enemy cooldowns as you hit them |
| 07:16.09 | ArcanePariah | Referencing dota, like how Blink Dagger gains a second cooldown when you damage the hero |
| 07:16.15 | ArcanePariah | a 3 second* |
| 07:21.47 | JademusSreg | TimeWarpProduction <Vital index="Energy" value="25"/> RetributionField <Cooldown TimeUse="0.5"/> CorruptorInfesting <Charge CountMax="1" CountStart="1" CountUse="1"/> TorrasqueTimerBehavior <Cooldown Link="Behavior/TorrasqueTimerBehavior" Location="Behavior" TimeStart="60"/> ToxicAdrenaline <Cooldown Link="Abil/SpawnInfestedTerran" Location="Abil" TimeUse="7.5"/> |
| 07:22.08 | JademusSreg | Those are all the examples from my oracular sources. |
| 07:22.15 | JademusSreg | Note that last one. |
| 07:22.18 | JademusSreg | Note it well. |
| 07:23.47 | JademusSreg | Those are the standard Behavior costs. I'll consult regarding the effects. |
| 07:24.20 | JademusSreg | But so far, it supports suspicion 2. |
| 07:25.09 | JademusSreg | Which is splendid news, clearly. |
| 07:29.05 | ArcanePariah | Yeah, the question I have is, does this affect abilites that are leveled or not? |
| 07:29.18 | JademusSreg | Clarify. |
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| 07:29.34 | ArcanePariah | I tried doing exactly what it did, but only to an ability that is learned, and levled up, and nothing happened when I added the behavior |
| 07:29.40 | ArcanePariah | the Ability cost was unchanged |
| 07:29.57 | JademusSreg | I cannot parse your meaning. |
| 07:31.14 | JademusSreg | Also, Effect data lacks the SCost structure. |
| 07:32.49 | ArcanePariah | In the case you have above, the Toxic Adrenaline, it clearly alters the cooldown of an ability on the caster. I created a similar behavior and added it to a unit, linking the behavior cost to the ability on the unit, the ability is one that is leveled. I leveled up the ability, and then added the behavior with cheats, but the ability cost remained the same |
| 07:33.14 | JademusSreg | Paste the XML? |
| 07:33.24 | JademusSreg | Of all relevant entries, of course. |
| 07:34.24 | ArcanePariah | This is the behavior I have created |
| 07:34.25 | ArcanePariah | http://pastebin.com/uH325YFv |
| 07:35.20 | ArcanePariah | This is the linked ability |
| 07:35.20 | ArcanePariah | http://pastebin.com/RNBWy7L2 |
| 07:36.06 | ArcanePariah | Either I mismatched something in the link, or the ability being a learned one, listed in the learn ability on the unit is messing it up |
| 07:36.16 | JademusSreg | What happened following use of the ability? |
| 07:36.28 | ArcanePariah | Normal effect, normal cost, normal cooldown |
| 07:37.37 | JademusSreg | How does it behavor for a non-learned ability? |
| 07:37.51 | ArcanePariah | Not sure, have not tested, going to do that now |
| 07:37.54 | JademusSreg | *behave |
| 07:43.17 | ArcanePariah | No change, curious though, which unit has that ability in the campaign |
| 07:43.24 | ArcanePariah | the Toxic Adrenaline |
| 07:43.50 | ArcanePariah | Nothing is listed in the data navigator as linking to it, and I can not recall any upgrade/mutation in the HotS that produced that effect |
| 07:44.35 | ArcanePariah | The upgrade listed for the requirement is just a placeholder |
| 07:44.37 | JademusSreg | Vaguely familiar. |
| 07:44.53 | ArcanePariah | So it has to be something granted from mutations |
| 07:48.06 | ArcanePariah | It is also strange that chrono boost has 25 energy as its cost on the behavior |
| 07:48.42 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/u7fg |
| 07:51.55 | JademusSreg | So far: https://pastee.org/s3qnn |
| 08:02.26 | ArcanePariah | On a somewhat tangential but related to the topic at hand, how many people does Blizzard have working on the editor, the forum appearances give the impression it is around 10 people total coding and documenting the editor |
| 08:03.28 | JademusSreg | Sounds about right. |
| 08:04.20 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... if that is the case, probably explains why so much of the editor is undocumented |
| 08:05.04 | ArcanePariah | Afaik, there is the tooltips to fields and the notes in the XML, beyond that we have nothing, correct? |
| 08:06.30 | JademusSreg | Pretty much. Oh, and sparse official tutorials on Bnet, the old mapster wiki and the new completely meta-top-secret mapster wiki. |
| 08:06.42 | ArcanePariah | lol top secret |
| 08:07.12 | ArcanePariah | Oh yeah, we do have the actor cheats and the editor cheats, which make trial and error faster, but still... |
| 08:07.34 | ArcanePariah | If there is one thing that seems to universally suck, it is software documentation |
| 08:08.08 | JademusSreg | Autodocs are the one true path. |
| 08:09.30 | JademusSreg | Also helps to support some syntactic sugar to give the preprocessor to chew on before it fucking builds. |
| 08:10.17 | JademusSreg | Sorry, distracted thinking of the -other- documentation. =D |
| 08:10.18 | ArcanePariah | Autodocs being... (sounds familiar but my memory is vague) |
| 08:11.03 | JademusSreg | Automatically generates documentation for the code units and adds comments. |
| 08:11.56 | JademusSreg | Usually specifically marked comments, like in Java. |
| 08:13.18 | JademusSreg | Like /* This is a shitty comment, and you should feel shitty. */ versus |
| 08:15.32 | JademusSreg | Javadoc comment /** Not only is this informative, but it will also be added to the content of the API documentation, fuck yes. */ (split along multiple lines, the IDE should add extra asterisks along the left edge) |
| 08:39.33 | JademusSreg | Alright. Here's all the shit I cared enough to find. https://pastee.org/d8ycw |
| 08:40.30 | JademusSreg | It either terminates in a campaign map somewhere, or it was cut entirely. |
| 08:42.34 | JademusSreg | But its existence indicates viability. |
| 08:46.45 | Lepton | guys whats the doodad for doors that open when you move close to them called? |
| 08:49.08 | JademusSreg | Not a doodad. |
| 08:49.12 | JademusSreg | brb |
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| 09:22.57 | JademusSreg | Anyway, either you're refering to the unit or the model. Doodads are mechanically static; they can't behave as doors. |
| 09:41.40 | Lepton | yeah I found it |
| 09:41.46 | Lepton | same as the doodad but moves |
| 09:41.53 | Lepton | i chose lab gate |
| 09:44.38 | JademusSreg | Doodad is a specific type of thing, a Model actor and optional footprint which can be placed in the terrain editor. Calling scenery doodads is just silly. |
| 09:46.37 | Lepton | yeah but some doodads move so I thought so |
| 09:46.53 | Lepton | but they cant be triggered and stuff i guess |
| 09:48.32 | Lepton | makes sense. |
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| 09:53.41 | Lepton | omg why would the " Unit - Any Unit Enters a distance of 1.0 from Unit |
| 09:53.41 | Lepton | " event not let us put "any unit" in the second unit field |
| 10:08.40 | JademusSreg | Doodads can be interacted with in presentational, not mechanical, ways. A fire can burn to cinder some alien tree, but that's just visual shit, not at all like destroying it entirely to clear a path through an alien forest. |
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| 10:18.02 | Lepton | yeah |
| 10:18.03 | Lepton | got it |
| 10:18.46 | Lepton | any idea how to make a trigger fire when a unit enters within range of a unit of unit type |
| 10:19.08 | Lepton | best solution i found is to have a periodic event ever 0.0625s |
| 10:32.26 | Zolden | hyperprojects duckies onto 7 dimention space including two perpendicular time axes |
| 10:32.45 | JademusSreg | Lep, depends. |
| 10:32.56 | JademusSreg | It can be done via data quite easily. |
| 10:34.20 | JademusSreg | Or you can use register each door unit for the unit enters range trigger event. Or you can register each door unit for the unit enters region trigger event + create a region. |
| 10:34.47 | JademusSreg | I'd advise a data-based solution, but if you're more comfortable with triggers, it'll work fine. |
| 10:38.09 | Lepton | its not for the door |
| 10:38.33 | Lepton | its for a unit that there are 100 of them on the map > < |
| 10:38.59 | Lepton | ill try the data aproach |
| 10:39.30 | G0A | wow http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/08/24/league-of-legends-finals-sells-out-las-staples-center-in-an-hour/ |
| 10:42.12 | Lepton | someone just found out that mobas are popular |
| 10:42.33 | Lepton | mostl among children, young teens and females |
| 10:43.05 | Lepton | dota2 is getting even more popular |
| 10:43.36 | Zolden | why would females care about geeks magically killing each other? |
| 10:44.49 | G0A | yeah its quite fascinating that how many female plays lol |
| 10:45.44 | G0A | though I am still waiting for the first female E-sport start ever. |
| 10:45.51 | G0A | star* |
| 10:46.22 | Zolden | do they angrily shout "fuck you fucking nooobs!" into microphone? |
| 10:46.36 | Zolden | females suck |
| 10:46.49 | Lepton | thats the point |
| 10:46.50 | Zolden | they are 200 elo points lower in chess |
| 10:47.01 | Lepton | LoL players are bad |
| 10:47.04 | Lepton | they are casuals |
| 10:47.17 | Lepton | thats what mobas attract |
| 10:47.33 | Lepton | and its why its so popular |
| 10:47.52 | Lepton | low skill cap game |
| 10:48.19 | Lepton | starcraft isnt apealing to this demografic |
| 10:48.28 | Lepton | :[ |
| 10:48.45 | halides | why is casual gaming bad? |
| 10:48.46 | Zolden | they just need more pink units |
| 10:48.51 | Lepton | its not bad |
| 10:49.14 | Lepton | its good actually |
| 10:49.25 | Lepton | we need more casuals in starcraft |
| 10:51.54 | Zolden | if I set for my Launch effect both launch and impact to Target, and also configure launch offset, will the missile start from the point offseted from target? Also, will I need to use X or Y offset to avoid instant arrival of the missile? (heard they fly in 2d) |
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| 10:53.24 | halides | 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, that's where i think the casual lives in sc2 |
| 10:54.41 | G0A | yeah |
| 10:54.50 | G0A | we need casuals for Arcade... |
| 10:57.24 | halides | true |
| 10:57.36 | Zolden | what's casuals? games we play casually? |
| 10:58.01 | Zolden | squad td is the most relazing game, you can troll other players 90% of playing time |
| 10:58.03 | Zolden | super fun |
| 10:58.12 | Zolden | *relaxing |
| 11:00.06 | halides | sounds like hon |
| 11:01.06 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 11:07.46 | G0A | Zolden you can troll in all game at all time |
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| 11:12.07 | Lepton | is there a way to allos units to walk under a catwalk? |
| 11:12.12 | Lepton | allow* |
| 11:12.24 | Lepton | sorta like a highway overpass |
| 11:15.41 | Zolden | yesterday I saw an extrastupid small dog that crossed a road twice to sniff ass of a dog on the other side, and a huge truck had to panicly break to not kill the creature (I was sure he won't make it) |
| 11:16.20 | Lepton | cool story bro |
| 11:16.39 | Zolden | thanks, I have more |
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| 11:56.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.82.177.139.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 12:27.57 | JademusSreg | Time to enter a peaceful repose. brb |
| 13:12.40 | Lepton | anyone got a clue how to fix catwalk pathing |
| 13:12.46 | Lepton | so that you can walk under it |
| 13:20.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@p5B319ED7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:36.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-37.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 14:31.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 14:39.04 | Lepton | anyone has a clue? |
| 14:39.22 | Lepton | been working on this problem for 30 minutes |
| 14:43.55 | Lepton | I can get them to move on the catwalk |
| 14:44.03 | Lepton | but they cant move under |
| 14:44.26 | Lepton | they just jump on top of it if I send them under |
| 15:05.49 | Bommes | What do you mean "catwalk"? |
| 15:05.56 | Bommes | like a bridge where you can walk under as well? |
| 15:09.15 | Lepton | yeah |
| 15:09.57 | Bommes | not supported by the sc2 engine afaik |
| 15:10.20 | Lepton | omg |
| 15:10.23 | Lepton | thats so limited |
| 15:11.41 | Bommes | but I'm sure there are people who tried to find some way around it, have you searched in the forum? |
| 15:11.48 | Lepton | on a side note...i think I just lost my map |
| 15:12.01 | Lepton | I get a billion trtigger error msges when loading it |
| 15:12.12 | Lepton | and they triggers and functions dont have names anymore |
| 15:12.13 | Lepton | wtf |
| 15:12.39 | Lepton | Bommes, a little bit but didnt find anything |
| 15:13.07 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Orphaned trigger sub-function call removed: Function Call 'Return' (Function Call, E8DC3F4A, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.07 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Position Of Unit' (Parameter Value, 3D7DC7E8, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.07 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Units Near Point Matching Condition' (Parameter Value, 60B7FFE6, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.07 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Units Near Point Matching Condition' (Parameter Value, B87610B7, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.09 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Units Near Point Matching Condition' (Parameter Value, 6D23C9AD, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.14 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Units Near Point Matching Condition' (Parameter Value, 6B69BCA7, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.18 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Units Near Point Matching Condition' (Parameter Value, E2FD4732, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.21 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Units Near Point Matching Condition' (Parameter Value, 5B6ED698, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.23 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Comparison' (Parameter Value, 54F6B2DE, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.28 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Comparison' (Parameter Value, BEA7D652, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.31 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Orphaned trigger sub-function call removed: Function Call 'Return' (Function Call, AA2472ED, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.33 | Dustin|Work | ya ya we get it :P |
| 15:13.34 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Comparison' (Parameter Value, 0F0E0834, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.37 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger element reference removed from Function Call 'Comparison' (Parameter Value, 2893F026, Lib: 0) |
| 15:13.40 | Dustin|Work | This is what Pastebins are for |
| 15:13.40 | Lepton | [8/26/2013 11:11:32 AM] Warning: Invalid trigger el |
| 15:13.44 | Lepton | fun times |
| 15:14.27 | Lepton | so I lost my whole map? |
| 15:16.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster Obscene (184a8609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.74.134.9) |
| 15:16.33 | Obscene | hey bommes whats up |
| 15:16.45 | Obscene | so how is everyone today? |
| 15:17.06 | Bommes | hello Obscene :) who are you? |
| 15:17.19 | Lepton | bad. |
| 15:17.23 | Obscene | Pretty good :) |
| 15:17.36 | Obscene | Drinking Tea, cooking boiled eggs |
| 15:17.48 | Obscene | Finally 21 :P |
| 15:18.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster IdieAlittleEvery (4e3c1a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.60.26.40) |
| 15:19.12 | Obscene | hmmm lag MUST be reduced... |
| 15:25.55 | Obscene | WOHOOO FOR GOOD OL DEPRESSION!! |
| 15:25.55 | Obscene | :P |
| 15:26.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dogmai (~Dogmai@124-169-80-116.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:27.03 | Obscene | hey dogmai |
| 15:27.14 | Dogmai | im tired |
| 15:27.17 | Obscene | lol |
| 15:27.36 | Obscene | I'm awesome :P |
| 15:27.53 | Dogmai | no, really |
| 15:27.54 | Dogmai | you're not |
| 15:27.58 | Obscene | :( |
| 15:28.07 | Dogmai | get back, week worth of emails |
| 15:28.12 | Obscene | lol |
| 15:28.15 | Dogmai | account used to communicate with blizzard |
| 15:28.15 | Obscene | where you go? |
| 15:28.17 | Dogmai | empty |
| 15:28.19 | Dogmai | wedding |
| 15:28.20 | Obscene | hahah |
| 15:28.23 | Obscene | ahh cool |
| 15:28.25 | Dogmai | feelsbadman |
| 15:28.43 | Obscene | While you were gone, the 2 largest melee mapping teams quit |
| 15:29.00 | Obscene | apperently melee mapping, the guys who do get constant support, werent happy either |
| 15:29.16 | Obscene | TCW, and... i forgot the others name. |
| 15:30.09 | Dogmai | iccup? |
| 15:30.20 | Dogmai | i did warn them |
| 15:30.31 | Dogmai | you don't need to be psychic to see this coming |
| 15:30.39 | Dogmai | i dont want this to happen |
| 15:30.43 | Dogmai | but it is the way things will turn out |
| 15:30.46 | Dogmai | so im not surprised |
| 15:30.58 | Obscene | No it wasnt iccup |
| 15:31.18 | Obscene | though it might have been I am not familiar with names, so maybe they were using a diff name, 1 sec ill get the articl |
| 15:32.17 | Obscene | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426719 |
| 15:32.19 | Obscene | TPW |
| 15:32.23 | Obscene | not tcw |
| 15:35.21 | Obscene | yeah, I know :/ its dissapointing, it really is. but oh well. |
| 15:35.30 | Obscene | Hey anyone know the Normal > Slower speed rate? |
| 15:35.31 | Dogmai | it is depressing |
| 15:35.46 | Dogmai | if blizzard should talk to anyone |
| 15:35.49 | Dogmai | it should be my wife |
| 15:35.54 | Obscene | why? |
| 15:36.09 | Dogmai | i can only imagine, how much shit I get |
| 15:36.12 | Dogmai | for the choices I made |
| 15:36.16 | Dogmai | to how much shit they would get |
| 15:36.19 | Obscene | ahh |
| 15:36.20 | Dogmai | for forcing me into this position |
| 15:36.25 | Dogmai | if that makes sense |
| 15:36.31 | Obscene | yeah it does |
| 15:36.35 | Dogmai | its my fault i had that faith in blizzard |
| 15:36.41 | Dogmai | but its their fault that they broke their promises |
| 15:36.43 | Bommes | You are married? |
| 15:36.47 | Dogmai | indeed |
| 15:36.58 | Obscene | I map for my own selfish reasons though, So I dont care 1 way or another |
| 15:36.59 | Bommes | fresh or for a longer time? :) didnt know, cool thing |
| 15:37.07 | Obscene | Though I would LOVE to see my stuff succeed |
| 15:37.07 | Dogmai | fresh |
| 15:37.12 | Bommes | grats!! |
| 15:37.14 | Dogmai | still no honeymoon because we were waiting for blizzard |
| 15:37.18 | Dogmai | thank you blizzard |
| 15:37.25 | Bommes | soon(tm) |
| 15:37.33 | Dogmai | got rejected for my job application the day before my wedding |
| 15:37.37 | Dogmai | what a great mood setter |
| 15:37.39 | Obscene | no this is acti blizzard, soonish(tm) |
| 15:39.20 | Obscene | ouch |
| 15:39.21 | Lepton | did this ever happen to anyone? loading your map and having no name on any trigger/function/variable? |
| 15:39.36 | Obscene | Sounds like a Locale error |
| 15:39.41 | Dustin|Work | sounds like a corupted locale file |
| 15:39.44 | Lepton | and not being able to save/test document/ publish |
| 15:39.52 | Obscene | again could be locale |
| 15:39.55 | Lepton | how could that happen? |
| 15:39.59 | Dustin|Work | Lepton, open the map and re-generatet he locale |
| 15:40.07 | Lepton | and how could it be fixed? |
| 15:40.35 | Obscene | Go to map> Locale, hit modify, Then click another locale doesnt matter which one, and unlick yours |
| 15:40.53 | Obscene | then when the changes take place(takes a minute), then hit modify and switch back to yours |
| 15:40.59 | Obscene | that should create a fresh locale |
| 15:41.10 | Lepton | on it.. |
| 15:41.16 | Lepton | not i cant even open the map > < |
| 15:41.22 | Obscene | lawl |
| 15:41.24 | Lepton | rebooting editor |
| 15:42.02 | Obscene | Uncle grandpa -_- thats the name of a cartoon... good to know incest is becoming more popular.. -_- |
| 15:42.31 | Dustin|Work | Fry is his own grandpa |
| 15:42.42 | Obscene | Thats fry though... and they didnt glorify it :P |
| 15:42.47 | Dustin|Work | hehe |
| 15:43.02 | Lepton | ok so I put a dummy locale, put it didnt take a minute |
| 15:43.09 | Lepton | is that normal? |
| 15:43.17 | Obscene | If it didnt take a minute thats fine, it just means your computer isnt shitty like mine |
| 15:43.29 | Obscene | The important thing was removing your own |
| 15:43.32 | Obscene | and then re-adding your own |
| 15:43.52 | Obscene | brb 5 minutes |
| 15:44.13 | Lepton | my PC is very shitty ^^ |
| 15:45.28 | Lepton | it didnt bring back trigger names >< |
| 15:45.32 | Lepton | but thanks still |
| 15:48.32 | Dustin|Work | This is one of the reasons you should be making frequent backups :) |
| 15:48.44 | Lepton | its weird though, I deleted enUS and put random other locales but the enUS stays in the list |
| 15:56.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (4d26cd7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.38.205.122) |
| 16:04.13 | Obscene | Yeah you have to have enUS be removed from the list |
| 16:04.16 | Obscene | that will take a few minutes |
| 16:04.25 | Obscene | leption that was probably why they didnt come back up |
| 16:04.33 | Obscene | I usually just turn off the editor and releoad it |
| 16:04.48 | Obscene | save first though |
| 16:06.57 | Lepton | yeah but |
| 16:07.00 | Lepton | the problem is |
| 16:07.05 | Lepton | i cant save |
| 16:07.06 | Lepton | :P |
| 16:07.11 | Obscene | lol |
| 16:07.28 | Obscene | send the map to taintedwisp@yahoo.com |
| 16:07.51 | Lepton | maybe change locale then rename all variables/triggers to dummie names |
| 16:07.53 | Lepton | then save |
| 16:07.55 | Lepton | then load |
| 16:08.02 | Lepton | then change back to enUS |
| 16:08.13 | Lepton | sure |
| 16:10.07 | Lepton | well, I renamed arre variables and it works |
| 16:10.22 | Obscene | ah cool |
| 16:10.23 | Lepton | but it would takes a while to name then all right |
| 16:10.33 | Lepton | i just named them 23g35qv2c4 |
| 16:11.00 | Obscene | like dustin said, always have a current backup of your map |
| 16:11.09 | Obscene | I keep my back up in drop box |
| 16:11.13 | Lepton | yea I usually do |
| 16:11.16 | Lepton | but this was a new map |
| 16:11.21 | Obscene | ah |
| 16:11.24 | Obscene | ok |
| 16:11.30 | Lepton | like 15 hours of work |
| 16:11.41 | Lepton | I didnt think of saving with new name |
| 16:11.48 | Obscene | lol |
| 16:12.06 | Lepton | i was too focused :3 |
| 16:12.17 | Lepton | im good at spamming CTRL+S |
| 16:12.29 | Obscene | lol |
| 16:12.32 | Lepton | it should automatically change the name every time you ctrl+s |
| 16:12.50 | Dustin|Work | Lepton |
| 16:13.00 | Lepton | hey |
| 16:13.04 | Obscene | no there should be a back up save option where it saves it to the same file locations under the same name but with a number after the name |
| 16:13.05 | Dustin|Work | I work inside my dropbox, so I have backups of every save for 30 days |
| 16:13.14 | Dustin|Work | You might think about doing that |
| 16:13.24 | Obscene | Saving Directly to dropbox can break things though |
| 16:13.30 | Obscene | I save to desktop then move to dropbox |
| 16:13.31 | Dustin|Work | Never broken anything of mine |
| 16:13.42 | Dustin|Work | It bitches sometimes, but I havent ever seen a problem |
| 16:13.48 | Obscene | broke my entire map twice, had to recover it, but dropbox does have backups |
| 16:13.48 | Lepton | oh I see |
| 16:13.49 | Dustin|Work | Its usually with Temp files |
| 16:13.59 | Lepton | dropboxed creates new files for you every time you save? |
| 16:14.08 | Dustin|Work | Kinda, it's a cloud backup storage |
| 16:14.23 | Lepton | ive used it in the past |
| 16:14.29 | Dustin|Work | Every file version that is saved gets stored on their servers for 30 days at least with the free version |
| 16:15.10 | Obscene | Whats the speed rate from normal to lowest? |
| 16:16.15 | Dustin|Work | For game speed or what? |
| 16:17.16 | Obscene | game speed |
| 16:17.20 | Obscene | well from normal to slow |
| 16:17.29 | Obscene | Slowest causes missile problems apperently |
| 16:17.35 | Lepton | o rly |
| 16:17.43 | Obscene | thats what some random person the forums says |
| 16:20.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Hati (~Hati@trir-5d8000cc.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:20.11 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+v Hati] by ChanServ |
| 16:20.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@p57903D13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:21.32 | Obscene | The more I read the less I KNow :/ |
| 16:21.34 | Obscene | hmmm. |
| 16:21.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Fate_ (~IceChat77@e179141044.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:22.17 | Fate_ | hey all i wana record a vid of my map so i need 5 players |
| 16:26.10 | Obscene | sure fate |
| 16:26.12 | Obscene | on NA? |
| 16:26.23 | Fate_ | doent matter |
| 16:26.30 | Fate_ | i think i prefer EU |
| 16:29.17 | Fate_ | anyone else pls? |
| 16:29.42 | Fate_ | Obscene i need some time for the latest upload |
| 16:29.53 | Obscene | ok |
| 16:30.12 | duckies | fate, why don't you ping me >.> |
| 16:30.38 | Fate_ | slaps duckies with a big red brick |
| 16:30.41 | Fate_ | :) |
| 16:30.50 | Fate_ | but its the pvp verison this time |
| 16:30.54 | duckies | oh |
| 16:30.56 | duckies | boo! |
| 16:31.05 | duckies | got me excited for nothing t_t |
| 16:33.47 | Obscene | lol |
| 16:35.22 | Fate_ | upload done |
| 16:35.30 | Obscene | ya know... I keep hearing about how powerful the starcraft 2 engine is... but I cant get a damn thing to run good on it -_- |
| 16:35.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster herolief (~herolief@wireless-218-19.wireless.umbc.edu) |
| 16:35.58 | Obscene | Things which I know for a fact would have been able to have been done on Wc3, or in some cases Sc1 |
| 16:36.28 | Fate_ | Obscene your online? |
| 16:36.41 | Obscene | yeah... I dont remember where to find my character code though |
| 16:36.52 | Obscene | mines 732 |
| 16:37.08 | Fate_ | just jion acrade channel |
| 16:37.25 | Obscene | ok |
| 16:38.51 | Fate_ | still need some ppl |
| 16:43.19 | Repo | Updated wiki entry: Repositories / Repository keyword substitutions - http://www.sc2mapster.com/wiki/repositories/repository-keyword-substitutions/ |
| 17:02.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 17:27.50 | G0A | duckies I am thinking about making a hero survival mode for my hero arena map:) |
| 17:37.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@p5B030CB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:41.40 | duckies | that's good thinking goa :D |
| 17:48.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-245-91.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 18:05.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster zenx (d9186981@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.105.129) |
| 18:11.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRooX (~RipperRoo@pC19F7DAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:18.44 | G0A | duckies but it will be infinte level long:D |
| 18:26.49 | duckies | Nooooooooooouuuu! |
| 18:28.58 | G0A | I wont do level design:D |
| 18:30.31 | Obscene | hahaha |
| 18:30.38 | Obscene | 10k minerals, and you loose to 2 carriers |
| 18:31.02 | G0A | ? |
| 18:31.41 | Obscene | watching bronze league heroes.. |
| 18:31.42 | Obscene | lol |
| 18:32.30 | G0A | :) |
| 18:39.42 | zenx | god damnit |
| 18:39.57 | zenx | again I fall in the same pit I always fall in |
| 18:40.12 | zenx | I need to redo stuff cause it wasnt good enough ;( |
| 19:01.39 | duckies | it's never good enough zenxu :/ |
| 19:04.26 | zenx | sad but true |
| 19:06.30 | duckies | but it's good enough if you think it is :D |
| 19:07.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster ArcanePariah (~Arcanepar@99-8-167-11.lightspeed.futnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:14.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~qqqq@dslb-092-073-201-122.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:25.11 | Obscene | lost in the catacombs. |
| 19:33.11 | JademusSreg | Zoop. |
| 19:34.54 | Dustin|Work | Bibbity bop. |
| 19:38.17 | Obscene | ZING |
| 19:40.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster hobbidude (60338f8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.51.143.140) |
| 19:40.38 | JademusSreg | I think I'll just make this a template for my response to all Blizzard narrative discussions. http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/off-topic/56803-diablo-3-expansion-reveal/?page=2#p35 |
| 19:40.55 | hobbidude | hye jade any luck on that hercules demo? |
| 19:41.26 | JademusSreg | Hob, I'll have time to work on it after I run an errand. I certainly experienced the bug to which you refer, haha. |
| 19:41.47 | hobbidude | lol ya |
| 19:42.22 | JademusSreg | Quite entertaining; the landed morph somehow inherits the ignore terrain height flag. |
| 19:42.36 | JademusSreg | Or at least that's the effect. |
| 19:45.18 | Obscene | Jademus is the man of many errands... most usually involving time travel |
| 19:48.22 | JademusSreg | Yes, I'm actually on my way to maintain time loop stability by punching one of my past-selves. Dunno why I need to do that, but since it already happened in my perspective timeline, I must ensure it does happen. |
| 19:50.09 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 19:53.16 | Obscene | lol |
| 20:04.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-d9baf1f9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:04.11 | Kueken | sHARK |
| 20:04.22 | Kueken | cAPsfaIL |
| 20:15.18 | Obscene | hmm new trivium album coming.. |
| 21:15.16 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.82.177.139.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 21:25.28 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 21:25.45 | hobbidude | wow thats some time jump |
| 21:46.50 | Fate_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHJAGkk5OIE |
| 21:46.58 | Fate_ | some gameplay of my map |
| 21:48.58 | Kueken | Fate, I played around with your issue a little, but so far I got nothing :/ |
| 21:49.05 | Kueken | did you find out something? |
| 21:49.12 | Obscene | Fate thats the one where I waffle stomped them right? |
| 21:49.26 | JademusSreg | Best feature: the loading screen. Second best feature: typographical, lexical, and grammatical errors. |
| 21:50.08 | Kueken | thats Fate for you :D |
| 21:50.22 | JademusSreg | Needs an english localization helper. |
| 21:50.51 | Kueken | "terranids"? xD |
| 21:50.56 | JademusSreg | Anyway, what issue? |
| 21:51.02 | Kueken | I believe they are called Tyranids |
| 21:51.56 | Kueken | Fate would like to make a group of selected units alternate between casts, when casting an instant cast spell with the "Best Unit" cast flag enabled |
| 21:52.19 | Kueken | so only one unit from the group should cast, but it should be a different unit for each subsequent cast |
| 21:52.37 | Fate_ | kueken u mean the problem form earlyer |
| 21:52.43 | Kueken | without adding coldowns, cast times or otherwise limiting the cast of a unit |
| 21:52.44 | Fate_ | no i have not idea |
| 21:53.15 | JademusSreg | For what purpose? |
| 21:53.21 | Kueken | no idea |
| 21:53.28 | Fate_ | for the autobuild |
| 21:53.57 | Kueken | (my guess would be you need to be more specific) |
| 21:54.17 | Fate_ | i use instand auto casts to give the ordert to build units |
| 21:54.46 | Fate_ | so the instand cast tells the builiding to build a unit |
| 21:55.19 | JademusSreg | Rather like a tug map. |
| 21:55.55 | JademusSreg | Castle Fight, Nexus Wars, and such with autospawning performed via autocast building. |
| 21:56.00 | Fate_ | data only with complete controll of the player when to autobuild and when not |
| 21:56.00 | Kueken | xD in a promotion video for your map "Shit it doesn't work. Its buggy!" |
| 21:56.12 | Obscene | ? |
| 21:56.27 | Fate_ | thats all based on triggers or periodic beh |
| 21:56.52 | Fate_ | it has to be like a train ability |
| 21:56.59 | JademusSreg | But that doesn't provide useful design information; you're describing an approach, but it lacks context without knowing what purpose it serves. |
| 21:57.42 | Fate_ | the effect is: u rightclick on the icon and activate the autobuild for that unit |
| 21:58.23 | JademusSreg | Autobuild for what purpose? |
| 21:58.34 | Fate_ | training units |
| 21:58.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (d5578393@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.87.131.147) |
| 21:59.08 | Kueken | hm |
| 21:59.14 | Zolden | mapmakermen |
| 21:59.33 | Kueken | I would imagine Jade facepalming now, but I don't know how his face looks like, so I have a hard time |
| 22:00.03 | Zolden | what is he facepalming about? |
| 22:00.23 | JademusSreg | Imagine Smash Bros characters Master Hand and Crazy Hand. |
| 22:00.26 | Kueken | usually its a palm hitting a face |
| 22:00.39 | Kueken | 2 hands? |
| 22:00.48 | Kueken | that would be more like a High 5, right? |
| 22:01.29 | Kueken | Fate_: Do you mean auto-build for squads like in WH40k replenishing squad units? |
| 22:01.34 | JademusSreg | I'd post a picture of my distractingly handsome face, but that would spoil the running gag. |
| 22:01.42 | Kueken | or buildings auto-training units rather? |
| 22:01.48 | Fate_ | no i dont have locke squads |
| 22:01.58 | Fate_ | the 2nd |
| 22:02.42 | Kueken | so you have a building with a button training a unit, and right-clicking this button will automatically keep training these units ntil your resources are depleted |
| 22:02.55 | Fate_ | yes |
| 22:03.04 | JademusSreg | formally resigns from the discussion, elects Kueken as the successor to the discussion's office. |
| 22:03.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Repo (~repo@76.164.170.2) |
| 22:03.18 | Kueken | hm |
| 22:03.25 | Fate_ | it will give the order to buidl the units if the unit is not already quered |
| 22:03.46 | Kueken | the sole purpose of this was to provide you with a precise design, Jade |
| 22:04.06 | Fate_ | :) |
| 22:04.17 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 22:04.17 | Fate_ | thats how it is |
| 22:04.26 | JademusSreg | Once compiled, I |
| 22:04.27 | Kueken | ah, now I think I understand the problem |
| 22:04.28 | Zolden | Obscene: why is your another nickname on forum still not banned? |
| 22:04.32 | JademusSreg | *I'll be happy to help. |
| 22:04.43 | hobbidude | no worries |
| 22:04.49 | hobbidude | they've been flagged |
| 22:04.52 | hobbidude | sixen is aware |
| 22:04.56 | Kueken | if you use a train ability, it will automatically queue the unit in the selected building with the lowest queue |
| 22:05.04 | JademusSreg | Hob, I'll tackle your issue next. |
| 22:05.08 | hobbidude | kk ty |
| 22:05.10 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 22:05.13 | Kueken | but since you use an ability ordering a train, it won't do that by itself |
| 22:05.43 | Kueken | and you cannot auto-cast the train ability by itself |
| 22:06.09 | Kueken | thats why you use the workaround with the ability issuing a train order |
| 22:06.18 | Kueken | correct? |
| 22:06.38 | Kueken | Fate_: |
| 22:06.49 | Fate_ | sry wait a sec |
| 22:07.41 | Fate_ | ah |
| 22:07.49 | Fate_ | yes thats the whole story |
| 22:08.33 | Zolden | whole story bro |
| 22:13.20 | Vailreth | what is Fate trying to do? |
| 22:14.11 | Fate_ | ufff |
| 22:15.19 | Fate_ | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9662346244 |
| 22:15.21 | Fate_ | this^^ |
| 22:15.56 | JademusSreg | That's good detail of the approach. Once the design is explained, I'll be able to assist. |
| 22:16.21 | Fate_ | its demonstraited in the viedo i liked |
| 22:16.24 | Fate_ | linked |
| 22:19.23 | Fate_ | got it jade? |
| 22:22.21 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zandose|Away (ZandoseAw@198-84-210-106.cpe.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:23.10 | JademusSreg | A problematic result follows from the implementation, the implementation follows from an approach, and the approach follows from the design. Which is to say a problematic result could be the fault of any stage in the process. Rather than pull teeth and agonizingly extract details over an exchange of questions and proposals, it saves so much time to begin by describing the design. |
| 22:24.52 | Fate_ | the desing is: you rightclick on a unit icon and activate the automatical unit production of that unit |
| 22:25.05 | Fate_ | to say it short |
| 22:25.41 | Fate_ | its to make it easy for the player to build and reinforce his army |
| 22:26.54 | JademusSreg | In case one doesn't understand what "describing the design" means, that is a description which doesn't refer to any of the technical shit, a description of it in the context of the gameplay, abstract mechanical relationships, and how it is interacted with and experience by the player. |
| 22:27.38 | Fate_ | Jade i dont understand your problen now |
| 22:28.34 | Fate_ | i posted i vid were u see me playing my map |
| 22:28.40 | ArcanePariah | HE doesn't want "Enable autocast on ability to train units" He wants some more along the lines of "I want a method for players to select which units they want to be built automatically" at least if I understand him now |
| 22:28.44 | Fate_ | and where i used the autobuild |
| 22:29.09 | Fate_ | yep |
| 22:29.52 | hobbidude | hows it workin jade? |
| 22:30.05 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so now that we know that is your goal, now we can go about finding the correct/appropriate approach to achieving that goal, and finally what process is needed for that approach |
| 22:30.47 | ArcanePariah | There are many ways to approach creating units automatically, so we need to flesh out the design a bit probably |
| 22:30.48 | JademusSreg | Behavior ability could be employed to accomplish the same; the behavior could create the unit and direct it to the source unit's rally point. |
| 22:30.52 | JademusSreg | Bam. |
| 22:31.10 | JademusSreg | hob, working on it. =D |
| 22:31.12 | ArcanePariah | Agreed, toggled behavior, with a spawn behavior |
| 22:31.24 | ArcanePariah | So toggling it on = start production |
| 22:31.51 | Fate_ | can a behavior ablility be autocasted? |
| 22:31.59 | JademusSreg | Point: missed. |
| 22:32.33 | ArcanePariah | Fate, with a Behavior ability, you have the player activate the ability, in the active state it applies a spawn behavior to the unit, and the spawn behavior can be configured to create the unit you need |
| 22:32.37 | Kueken | he wants 1 click -> train one unit, right click -> train indefinitely |
| 22:32.53 | Fate_ | yes |
| 22:32.56 | ArcanePariah | Ok, so yeah, that is what is missing from the design. |
| 22:33.02 | Kueken | :D |
| 22:33.03 | Fate_ | GRRRRR |
| 22:33.10 | ArcanePariah | In that case, why not use autocasted Train ability? |
| 22:33.17 | Kueken | train cannot autocast |
| 22:33.17 | Fate_ | [00:24] <Fate_> the desing is: you rightclick on a unit icon and activate the automatical unit production of that unit |
| 22:33.18 | JademusSreg | Haha, I'll just stick to helping people on my terms. |
| 22:33.23 | ArcanePariah | Does Train not autocast |
| 22:33.30 | ArcanePariah | oh |
| 22:33.35 | Kueken | train has no autocast option |
| 22:34.20 | ArcanePariah | Umm... yes it does, you have to configure on a per unit basis |
| 22:34.26 | ArcanePariah | the overall ability does not, but each index does |
| 22:34.34 | Kueken | o_0 |
| 22:34.37 | Kueken | since when? |
| 22:34.39 | Fate_ | O.o |
| 22:34.41 | ArcanePariah | its in the info->Train #-> Train Flags |
| 22:35.00 | ArcanePariah | Autocast, Autocast intially on, and ignore placement are avaiable |
| 22:35.02 | Kueken | granted, I didn't check that in a while, but last time I did, I am pretty sure it didn't exist |
| 22:35.06 | ArcanePariah | configured on per unit basis |
| 22:35.19 | ArcanePariah | So just use that |
| 22:35.22 | Kueken | do you know if it was patched in? |
| 22:35.36 | Fate_ | wait wait wait wait |
| 22:35.52 | ArcanePariah | No idea, I frankly have not looked at patch notes much, I just examine the editor, I'm an optimiist and just assume anything can be done |
| 22:36.09 | Fate_ | u mean u can now make a train ability autocastable? |
| 22:36.14 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 22:36.18 | JademusSreg | Self-efficacy. =D |
| 22:36.30 | Kueken | jade! |
| 22:36.37 | Kueken | don't make me google words again |
| 22:37.04 | ArcanePariah | But here is the trick, you have to do it on a per unit basis. For a train ability, you have the info field, which lets you define up to 30 units under the same train ability, and under each of those you can set autocast |
| 22:37.47 | JademusSreg | Reminds me, did you track down the references in my vaudevillian gag? |
| 22:37.58 | Kueken | no |
| 22:38.11 | ArcanePariah | Which gag was this? |
| 22:38.19 | Kueken | and ArcanePariah, trust me, I looked there when I tried it a couple of years ago |
| 22:38.32 | Kueken | so they most likely patched itin |
| 22:38.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836baeee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.174.238) |
| 22:38.40 | ArcanePariah | Hmm... I wish there were more comprehensive patch notes |
| 22:38.47 | ArcanePariah | So we could see these things earlier |
| 22:39.01 | Fate_ | Pariaha can u make me a demo map? |
| 22:39.03 | ArcanePariah | Since I imagine having such a thing would make your life easier no? |
| 22:39.18 | JademusSreg | Repost: [in the tone of vaudevillian burlesque] Hey Kueken, how do get the concent of Saunt Edhar? [beat] Praxis, praxis, praxis. [band plays out over laughter] |
| 22:39.30 | JademusSreg | Damn. |
| 22:39.34 | ArcanePariah | Fate, easier for me to just show you a screenshot of the relevant part in the data editor |
| 22:39.49 | JademusSreg | Fixed: [in the tone of vaudevillian burlesque] Hey Kueken, how do you get to the Concent of Saunt Edhar? [beat] Praxis, praxis, praxis. [band plays out over laughter] |
| 22:39.55 | Fate_ | yeah an then i dont get it working ... |
| 22:40.21 | Zandose|Away | If you need units to auto create themselves can't you do something in data like... If the button is pressed create a timer which will expire in whatever amount time and run button again. Bye. |
| 22:40.25 | Fate_ | and then u say "but i told you how to make it" |
| 22:40.35 | ArcanePariah | Ok, Ill make a fast map with autocasted training marines out a of barracks |
| 22:40.59 | Fate_ | nice |
| 22:41.06 | Kueken | don't bother, mine is almost finished _:D |
| 22:41.10 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 22:41.11 | Fate_ | XD |
| 22:41.16 | Fate_ | but guys |
| 22:41.21 | Fate_ | 2 unit types pls |
| 22:41.28 | Kueken | o_0 |
| 22:41.31 | Fate_ | so i can be sure it add both |
| 22:41.37 | ArcanePariah | Ehh? |
| 22:41.44 | Fate_ | my builiginds train differen unit types |
| 22:42.11 | ArcanePariah | Ok, yes,that is simply the unit in each info field |
| 22:42.11 | Kueken | you can easily make it work for another unit type yourself |
| 22:42.26 | Kueken | the flag doesn't appear to work, though |
| 22:42.34 | Fate_ | okey i am curious to see that working |
| 22:42.35 | Kueken | maybe try it on your end |
| 22:42.42 | ArcanePariah | Basically Blizzard understood that any Training would involve multiple units so the consolidated it such that 1 Train ability can handle up to 30 units |
| 22:42.45 | JademusSreg | It's not an esoteric ritual for summoning an immutable magical artifact, it's just data. =\ |
| 22:43.14 | ArcanePariah | I wish people better understood this. It is the same reason the Specialize Ability type exists, for a collection of Effect - Instant Abilites that you do not intend to level |
| 22:43.25 | JademusSreg | Iknowrite |
| 22:43.45 | ArcanePariah | Same for upgrades, and the Research Ability type |
| 22:43.51 | JademusSreg | And DoW-like specialization. |
| 22:43.55 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 22:43.57 | ArcanePariah | Indeed |
| 22:44.00 | Fate_ | XD |
| 22:44.17 | ArcanePariah | I bet good money SC2 borrowed that directly from DOW |
| 22:44.28 | Kueken | kk |
| 22:44.31 | Kueken | got it |
| 22:44.37 | JademusSreg | I suspect similarly. |
| 22:44.48 | Kueken | Fate, do you really need an example map? It is as easy as checking one flag |
| 22:44.55 | Fate_ | pls |
| 22:45.09 | Fate_ | i am bad in working new things out for myself |
| 22:45.27 | Fate_ | if that works it would solve many problems for me |
| 22:45.34 | Kueken | https://www.dropbox.com/s/5k92kbvny2e0cfe/autotrain.SC2Map |
| 22:45.35 | JademusSreg | -if |
| 22:45.50 | ArcanePariah | Jade, beyond the ones I mentioned, is there any other Ability types that function similarlu? I know Learn is the same way |
| 22:46.15 | Kueken | changed marine's cost to 0 and checked autocast, nothing else |
| 22:46.53 | JademusSreg | The Core XML lays out pretty well which ability classes extend which. |
| 22:47.44 | JademusSreg | In the sense of how the classes are defined in the hardcode, not entry inheritence. |
| 22:47.57 | ArcanePariah | Now that I think of it, that is the other somewhat useful feature Blizzard could add, a visual data navigator for hierarchial references |
| 22:48.14 | ArcanePariah | Make it easier to understand how things are structured and how better to leverage them |
| 22:48.17 | Fate_ | O |
| 22:48.18 | Fate_ | M |
| 22:48.19 | Fate_ | G |
| 22:48.51 | ArcanePariah | I can only assume from the expression and its tone that Fate has met with success |
| 22:49.09 | Fate_ | i dont belive this |
| 22:49.12 | Fate_ | this is |
| 22:49.16 | Fate_ | AHHHHAHGHHGHGHAHG |
| 22:49.28 | Kueken | he transformed into a murloc maybe? |
| 22:49.35 | ArcanePariah | I can now see he is also frustrated by the fact of how easy it is |
| 22:49.41 | JademusSreg | Specifically, the CAbilQueuable class, Arc. |
| 22:49.44 | Fate_ | I AM MORE THAN A FISH |
| 22:49.49 | ArcanePariah | Reminds me of an old story |
| 22:49.50 | Fate_ | I AM MORE THAN A MAN |
| 22:49.54 | Kueken | murlocs have legs |
| 22:50.00 | Kueken | that counts |
| 22:50.02 | Fate_ | DEATH WILL RISE FROM THE TIDES |
| 22:50.05 | Fate_ | RAWLWLALW |
| 22:50.11 | Fate_ | I AM MURLOC!!! |
| 22:50.19 | Fate_ | okey |
| 22:50.20 | JademusSreg | Learn, Revive, Arm Magazine, Research, Specialize, Train |
| 22:50.30 | Fate_ | this is really flashing me |
| 22:51.00 | Fate_ | i mean |
| 22:51.09 | Fate_ | i spende soooooooo many hours |
| 22:51.20 | Kueken | we can imagine |
| 22:51.21 | Fate_ | soooooooooo many fucking hours to make this |
| 22:51.31 | Fate_ | and not its just one flag???? |
| 22:51.33 | Kueken | have fun changing it :) |
| 22:51.43 | JademusSreg | Imagine how many more you'd save if you practiced communication skills. =D |
| 22:52.01 | ArcanePariah | A consultant is called in to help fix a factory machinery. He arrives and asks the managers some questions, the workers, the foremen. He examines the machine and finally grabs a hammer and hits a part, and it roars to life. Later on he sends the bill to the company for 1k USD. The company is outraged, since the consultant was there for only an hour. The consultant offers to send an itemized |
| 22:52.01 | ArcanePariah | bill. In it is the following "Hittin the machine in the right place: 1 USD, Know wher to hit the machine: 999 USD |
| 22:52.11 | Kueken | get used to it, my maps completely break every patch, consider yourself lucky yours just become easier to make |
| 22:52.22 | Fate_ | yeah |
| 22:52.28 | Fate_ | thats a good point |
| 22:52.30 | Fate_ | :) |
| 22:52.35 | Fate_ | is happy now |
| 22:52.48 | ArcanePariah | Kueken, why does your map break every patch? |
| 22:53.30 | Kueken | I somehow seem to always abuse some strange mechanics which are not supposed to be used that way and they end up getting fixed, requiring me to find another way |
| 22:53.30 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 22:53.53 | ArcanePariah | Ahh yes, it is a common software problem, an old one, and yeah, its awful |
| 22:54.03 | Kueken | or they just add some silly restrictions to things working perfectly fine before |
| 22:54.16 | ArcanePariah | Why standards are so very very important and why the software world could use a few |
| 22:54.22 | Kueken | like Texture Select By ID, which I use in just about every map |
| 22:54.48 | JademusSreg | http://xkcd.com/1172/ |
| 22:54.57 | Kueken | at some point they randomly decide you have to use a prefix now, while it was much safer before to not use a prefix ever |
| 22:55.21 | ArcanePariah | A good case study of this is Microsoft, much of their software is unchanged because people wrote stuff based on the poor behavior, and Microsoft, in the name of backwards compatability, often will not correct the problem/poor design |
| 22:56.07 | JademusSreg | ♥ implementing Interfaces |
| 22:56.07 | Kueken | well, I have no problem with fixing my map when it doesn't meet new standards |
| 22:56.13 | ArcanePariah | Ahh yes Jade, quite aprops |
| 22:56.36 | Kueken | but I'd like to be notified of these changes in any way at all |
| 22:57.09 | Kueken | instead of seeing "oh, my map broke after the patch, what a surprise" |
| 22:57.21 | Kueken | then spending a week trying to figure out the problem |
| 22:57.49 | Kueken | its not like this change was put in any changelog or something |
| 22:57.50 | Fate_ | this is so easy to change |
| 22:57.55 | Fate_ | it makes me cry |
| 22:57.57 | Kueken | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.04 | Kueken | anyone hungry? |
| 22:58.12 | Kueken | I will make someting to eat now |
| 22:58.27 | Kueken | it will probably be spicy, be prepared |
| 22:58.41 | Fate_ | i could have sth :) |
| 22:59.06 | JademusSreg | If the platform were actually profitable, one expects it would be maintained with more rigour and consideration. |
| 22:59.35 | Fate_ | ohhh |
| 22:59.38 | Fate_ | ohh noo |
| 22:59.58 | Fate_ | it doenst autobuild both units |
| 23:00.06 | Fate_ | ohhhhhhhhh |
| 23:00.38 | Fate_ | it only autobuilds one of the untis with the activated autocast |
| 23:00.38 | ArcanePariah | Well, if you want multiple unit built at once, you need to either remove the queue |
| 23:00.46 | ArcanePariah | or add multiple queues |
| 23:01.00 | ArcanePariah | So that it attempts to buld them all instead of queueing them up |
| 23:01.56 | Fate_ | uhn |
| 23:02.03 | Fate_ | i dont understand that |
| 23:02.18 | Kueken | my brother grows chilies and gave me some. |
| 23:02.26 | Kueken | I made oil from them |
| 23:02.31 | Kueken | damn, thats good |
| 23:02.50 | Kueken | burns straight through my tongue |
| 23:02.57 | Kueken | like molten steel |
| 23:03.19 | Kueken | Fate_: multiple queues like a reactor'd barracks |
| 23:04.11 | Fate_ | and if a building shal not ba able to build 2 units at the same time? |
| 23:04.30 | JademusSreg | Arc, did you catch the list of queuable ability classes I mentioned earlier? |
| 23:04.35 | ArcanePariah | Yes |
| 23:04.47 | JademusSreg | Goot, wasn't certain. |
| 23:04.48 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 23:05.13 | DeadZergling | you've put molten steel in your mouth before? |
| 23:05.33 | Kueken | seriously, you don't know my mom's cooking |
| 23:06.13 | Kueken | don't get me wrong, she makes awesome food, but its... spicy |
| 23:06.16 | DeadZergling | guess ovens are different in germany |
| 23:06.28 | DeadZergling | ovens in US don't have a smelt iron setting |
| 23:06.41 | Fate_ | i knew why i wanted to have 2 unit types in the demo map -.- |
| 23:06.58 | Kueken | yeah, we have an arc furnace at home :D |
| 23:08.09 | DeadZergling | spicy is good though |
| 23:08.23 | DeadZergling | every time I go to the chinese restaurant I order 13 stars |
| 23:08.31 | hobbidude | spicy gives you hairy on your chest |
| 23:08.46 | ArcanePariah | Fate, I'll take a look in a sec and see if I cna work it out |
| 23:09.32 | DeadZergling | to me, if it doesn't induce a runny nose and crying |
| 23:09.33 | Fate_ | all my hopes |
| 23:09.37 | DeadZergling | it isn't spicy enough |
| 23:09.43 | Fate_ | dont make them vanish |
| 23:15.23 | Kueken | btw |
| 23:15.24 | Kueken | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLFxb08lBJs&t=13m30s |
| 23:15.32 | Kueken | very nice aesthetics |
| 23:15.42 | Kueken | (if I wrote that correctly) |
| 23:18.17 | Fate_ | tryed it with 2 different train abilitys per unit type also didnt work |
| 23:19.34 | Fate_ | that gives me that idea that i noticed that flag earlyer myself |
| 23:19.55 | Kueken | then you will have to decide whats more important for your map |
| 23:20.42 | Kueken | being able to auto-train multiple units in a specific order or proper queuing of single units when selecting multiple buildings |
| 23:21.11 | Kueken | both seem rather insignificant, so disabling one of the 2 doesn't seem like a big deal |
| 23:21.24 | Fate_ | the autobuild is useless u you can use it with deffent unti types |
| 23:21.33 | Fate_ | but |
| 23:22.00 | Fate_ | players that want to build units with hotkeys |
| 23:22.14 | Fate_ | its anoying for them |
| 23:23.13 | Fate_ | so in my opinion both aspects are significant |
| 23:24.17 | Kueken | then I guess you will have to find a way to do both :) |
| 23:24.23 | Fate_ | ah |
| 23:24.35 | Kueken | a separate button for the auto-train comes to mind |
| 23:24.49 | Fate_ | nahh |
| 23:25.14 | Fate_ | unacceptable |
| 23:25.36 | Kueken | then triggers |
| 23:25.56 | Fate_ | dont say the t-word ... |
| 23:26.21 | Fate_ | i cant imagine that working fine with triggers |
| 23:27.39 | Kueken | well, you have enough alternatives now. If your perfect solution doesn't exist, use the one you are most satisfied with. |
| 23:28.55 | Fate_ | sorry but, i think nothing changed for me in the last 2 hours |
| 23:30.31 | Fate_ | triggers new buttons i allready had that ideas before i made that workaround |
| 23:34.38 | Kueken | well, I am out of ideas, if you can come up with something else, feel free to use it. |
| 23:35.45 | Kueken | I can tell you that triggers are most likely able to get you the exact behavior you need, otherwise you need to pick your most favourable drawback |
| 23:37.18 | Fate_ | okey what is your idea with triggers? |
| 23:39.38 | Fate_ | i think i would have to run a peridodic event tirgger for each building |
| 23:40.23 | hobbidude | nooooooooooooo! |
| 23:40.45 | JademusSreg | Why wouldn't one always reinforce? Auto makes manual superfluous in many cases unless resources are meaningfully restricted. |
| 23:41.04 | Fate_ | becous of costs and supply |
| 23:41.37 | Fate_ | maybee u want to stop one untis to be trained |
| 23:41.52 | Fate_ | its not a tug of war |
| 23:41.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster herolief (~herolief@wireless-218-19.wireless.umbc.edu) |
| 23:49.42 | JademusSreg | Related to Real-Time Strategy-versus-Tactics debate. |
| 23:50.22 | Fate_ | ? |
| 23:53.41 | JademusSreg | Optimal design makes optimal play experience a flow of decision, judgment, and action, using mechanics, presentation, and such to guide players toward achieving that gameplay flow. In RTS, that's consistently gaining resources, consistently spending those resources, and using the assets gained from expenditure to gain an advantage over the opposition. |
| 23:55.33 | Kueken | if there are multiple ways to spend resources, you usually don't want to pump all of them in units at all times. Also you might strife for a specific unt composition rather than just pumping out endless amounts of the same units, so being able to queue individual units makes sense |
| 23:55.41 | JademusSreg | Automating micromanagement is interesting in this context; it reduces activity and increases the significance of the individual activity, but it also shifts gameplay from tactical to strategic. |
| 23:56.53 | Fate_ | i agree with that, i also would call that true skill |
| 23:57.31 | Kueken | anyway, for a triggered approach, I would probably use the train ability as a base, since it covers most of the stuff you need, except the ability to queue multiple unit types |
| 23:57.51 | JademusSreg | I mention strategy-vs-tactics, because that's the contention of the design choice, or rather more accurately, it aims to afford both strategic automation and tactical manual selection. |
| 23:58.38 | Fate_ | @ keuken i agree with u there |
| 23:58.43 | Kueken | then I would use any event that triggers when a unit is finished training. there should be one. Whenever that happens, add units to the queue depending on which units are currently autocasted |
| 23:58.59 | Kueken | and which are currently still queued |
| 23:59.27 | Kueken | you can activate multiple autocasts right? it will just only build one type of them, correct? |
| 23:59.41 | Fate_ | well |
