| 00:00.14 | Eagles | i tried that but i must be too tired, will try again tomorrow >< |
| 00:02.57 | JademusSreg | if (UnitInventoryCount(someUnit,c_unitInventoryCountEmpty) == 0) { InventoryIsFullOfShit(); } |
| 00:03.14 | JademusSreg | I imagine that would suffice. |
| 00:06.23 | A1win | ugh, this targeting laser feels very laggy on bnet |
| 00:06.51 | A1win | it kind of warps around |
| 00:12.59 | A1win | maybe I should just get rid of it, it isn't really helping anyway since it basically just points towards the cursor |
| 00:17.03 | A1win | yeah, looks much better without it too ;D |
| 00:22.59 | A1win | yeah, the game feels less laggy when you can't visually see the immediate effect of the lag :P |
| 00:23.32 | A1win | but if you see it with your heart ~~ it doesn't matter! |
| 00:24.31 | Kubi | A1Win |
| 00:24.37 | Kubi | you talking about singleplayer? |
| 00:24.46 | A1win | multiplayer |
| 00:24.51 | Kubi | because multiplayer is a whole different story |
| 00:25.08 | A1win | I mean |
| 00:25.11 | A1win | it's on bnet |
| 00:25.18 | A1win | it's the same latency as it is in multiplayer |
| 00:26.12 | A1win | controls feel quite nice now :o |
| 00:27.35 | JademusSreg | Zoop. |
| 00:29.20 | A1win | still need to make ship to ship collisions and I think the "engine" is in a good shape |
| 00:30.28 | A1win | oh and need to test the limits too... |
| 00:30.56 | JademusSreg | I wonder if ConsoleCommand works in multiplayer. |
| 00:32.30 | Kubi | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaaf_9TqPL8 |
| 00:32.41 | Kubi | How I magine JAdemusSreg |
| 00:33.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster zeldarules28 (4777e1b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.119.225.182) |
| 00:33.37 | JademusSreg | I will humor you, if only because Total Recall was hilarious. =D |
| 00:36.26 | Kubi | Kuato |
| 00:36.39 | Kubi | My map has been |
| 00:36.43 | Kubi | making hero abilities |
| 00:36.45 | Kubi | 90% of it |
| 00:36.52 | Kubi | Time consuming |
| 00:37.09 | Kubi | Ooh |
| 00:37.10 | JademusSreg | Kuato, good name for a Zerg hero. |
| 00:37.14 | Kubi | lol |
| 00:37.21 | Kubi | I should use the fatty model |
| 00:37.25 | Kubi | and name him Kuato |
| 00:37.34 | Kubi | fat infestor |
| 00:37.36 | JademusSreg | Kuato should be a unit nested inside another unit. =D |
| 00:38.23 | A1win | :( this map is too fun, I can't make progress while I'm just flying around in space |
| 00:38.43 | JademusSreg | A1, allow me to assist in this. |
| 00:38.55 | A1win | you know how to make it less fun? |
| 00:39.04 | Kubi | lag |
| 00:39.05 | Kubi | LOL |
| 00:39.38 | JademusSreg | I may be able to encourage you to finish the current test. |
| 00:39.46 | A1win | hehe |
| 00:39.51 | JademusSreg | And perhaps focus more on implementing shit. |
| 00:42.19 | JademusSreg | Additional weapons, ships possibly with stat variations rather than purely aesthetic, ship customization, a coherent UI to tie all of -that- together, stage prefab and selection (because always-random-stages does not promote high level competitive play), space-related events, game modes... |
| 00:48.34 | JademusSreg | Not sure which idea I will prototype first, but I do have a stimulating proof-of-concept in mind. |
| 00:54.13 | A1win | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7WUvPCg-ic |
| 00:54.21 | A1win | we used to play this a lot in the late 90s |
| 01:00.26 | A1win | neveer figured out how to make levels for it, it used some file type with a specific palette and we had no idea about image manipulation software other than MS Paint |
| 01:04.04 | A1win | awwh was recalling what weapons it had, they were all pretty simple in the end |
| 01:04.10 | A1win | can't steal ideas :P |
| 01:05.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster ErikI_ (~Siretu@c-42f1e255.51-2-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:16.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster ErikI__ (~Siretu@c-42f1e255.51-2-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:28.12 | JademusSreg | Ideas cannot be stolen. |
| 01:29.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster Stewox (~chatzilla@86.58.34.166) |
| 01:30.33 | Stewox | motive you here ? |
| 01:31.53 | Stewox | did you made progress jademussreg |
| 01:32.10 | Stewox | just asking, im excited |
| 01:37.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Beep (5353a42b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.83.164.43) |
| 02:04.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (~proprieta@cpe-98-154-98-104.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:04.41 | proprietarysucks | anyone know the link to the 1v1 bronze league drone rush tournament video that is hilarious |
| 02:04.51 | proprietarysucks | goa pasted it in here a while ago |
| 02:05.25 | Kubi | I farted. |
| 02:06.09 | proprietarysucks | or is there logs somwhere |
| 02:06.16 | Kubi | I farted. |
| 02:06.55 | Kubi | I smell shit now. |
| 02:07.00 | proprietarysucks | nvm I found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2h-asuTD3E |
| 02:07.35 | JademusSreg | Stew, I asked some questions the other night. Would be helpful if those were addressed. |
| 02:08.13 | Kubi | Address this. |
| 02:08.21 | Kubi | Whats the site with the trigger gui pastebin |
| 02:08.22 | Kubi | shitass |
| 02:11.12 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 02:16.17 | Stewox | jademus |
| 02:16.21 | Stewox | i fell asleep |
| 02:16.29 | Stewox | but i think im late tonight again |
| 02:16.40 | Stewox | i need to get up by 10 tomoroow |
| 02:16.46 | Stewox | it's 4 AM now, 4 hrs late |
| 02:17.02 | Stewox | since amazing news was happening, it just took me again |
| 02:17.33 | Stewox | write them up i'll answer while 30 or so mins i'll still be awake |
| 02:17.44 | Kubi | da fuq is my debug window |
| 02:18.01 | Stewox | i won't be up at this times anymore since im finally breaking off the night-time schedule |
| 02:30.28 | JademusSreg | Backish. |
| 02:31.42 | JademusSreg | I am familiar with how persistent a third-shift schedule can be. |
| 02:32.23 | JademusSreg | Anyway, it comes down to a simple question, expressed in two ways. |
| 02:36.52 | JademusSreg | Does it need to support commandable units or any sort, such as missiles? Should it be general-case or special-case? |
| 02:38.15 | Stewox | hmm |
| 02:38.22 | Stewox | well that's kind of debatable |
| 02:38.23 | Kubi | Why the fuck does this show the same amount of number for each one if its just me. |
| 02:38.24 | Kubi | http://pastebin.com/bBGHArVB |
| 02:38.26 | Stewox | in terms of carrier |
| 02:38.28 | Kueken | hm |
| 02:38.42 | Kueken | negating a term with ! in an actor in xml causes a warning |
| 02:38.48 | Kueken | but it works properly |
| 02:38.48 | Stewox | the interceptors don't need to be i suppose |
| 02:39.11 | Stewox | but in case of other units who don't have hangar units as weapon |
| 02:39.12 | Kubi | http://pastebin.com/bBGHArVB |
| 02:39.17 | Stewox | it needs to be selectable like normal |
| 02:39.37 | Stewox | but the actual weapon, it doesn't have to be selectable i suppose |
| 02:39.46 | Stewox | since the command will be attached to the units |
| 02:40.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster sharf (~sharf@stu-237-155-171-184.champlain.edu) |
| 02:40.46 | Stewox | the AI that makes the units stuff like responding to guarding and flee, in tharget those units who already have a number of more units of same type or other more powerful units attacking that target |
| 02:41.12 | Stewox | they would turn away and in their minimal scan radius weapon area find other suitable targets if any |
| 02:42.27 | Stewox | i was leaning on a blocking system more, so you won't need to issue orders who to attack, just block them off one by one as soon as possible the limit of attacker on the enemy-type is reached, the friendly units will attack others automatically, choosing by the already defined default priority they fire at with their existing Ai (or distance) |
| 02:43.24 | Stewox | in terms of carrier i think you would have to modify it |
| 02:43.32 | Stewox | but for others general sense would work |
| 02:44.50 | Stewox | jademussreg |
| 02:44.55 | Stewox | one more important thing |
| 02:45.57 | Stewox | this system has to start detecting units as "attacking" ... in other words counting all of those units into the attack state when they target the enemy by simple command issue, |
| 02:46.15 | Stewox | so when you issue command to attack enemy, that's when the limit and slot thing needs to start working |
| 02:46.45 | Stewox | because with this, all of those who are out of range will be automatically assigned to other, and will ignore that target |
| 02:46.53 | JademusSreg | Noise overpowering the signal. |
| 02:47.09 | Stewox | they will not have to walk to the target to see they cannot attack it |
| 02:47.50 | Stewox | so they need to have this awareness as they're issued, but they'll be immediately redirected so they don't lose time walking, and they'll be quicker at their best-case location |
| 02:48.32 | Stewox | imagine if I have 20 stalkers, and there are 3 marines coming from South, 2 zealots coming from North and 3 roaches from East |
| 02:48.47 | Stewox | and the marines are farthest away, |
| 02:49.02 | Stewox | zealots are first, then roaches in distance |
| 02:49.27 | Stewox | when I multiselect all stalkers and send them to attack one of the groups |
| 02:49.59 | JademusSreg | Which is to say, you're providing an excessive amount of information, but not a concise response. Indicates stream of consciousness, "public thinking", and difficulty apprehending the agency of other people. |
| 02:50.03 | Stewox | so they need to have the awareness radius far enough to detect all 3 groups and themselfs |
| 02:50.51 | JademusSreg | I digress. Once you've worked out your thoughts, please provide a more direct answer to the question. |
| 02:50.53 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 02:51.20 | Stewox | then they will all atomatically just go their own way the closest and as the code was assigning them, one is surely 0.1 ms faster than the other so if the other guy can't attack the PLAYER ORDERED Unit (mouse click) then it will be scanning for other targets and it will just go to the nearest |
| 02:51.52 | Stewox | all right ... let me take a dump |
| 02:51.55 | Stewox | first |
| 02:52.02 | Stewox | brb |
| 02:52.44 | Stewox | i may be going sleep real soon i canot sacrifice another night |
| 02:52.55 | Stewox | i0ll see |
| 03:04.09 | Repo | New map: Marauders - Orbital Drop - http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/marauders-orbital-drop/ |
| 03:05.24 | Kubi | SOUNDS FUN |
| 03:05.24 | Kubi | LOL |
| 03:14.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Princess_Lun (~IceChat77@user-105n0q0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 03:48.38 | JademusSreg | Backish. |
| 04:01.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster noora (noora@synkea.net) |
| 04:04.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kubi-CELL (~Kubi@211.sub-174-253-145.myvzw.com) |
| 04:11.05 | motive | morning guys |
| 04:11.06 | motive | :D |
| 04:11.09 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 04:11.52 | motive | I just woke up from a nap, I'm so broken |
| 04:11.53 | motive | lolol |
| 04:12.24 | JademusSreg | Fix Johnny #5? |
| 04:13.12 | JademusSreg | I expect I fucked up the spelling, but the reference is too adorable to pass. |
| 04:13.17 | motive | =P |
| 04:13.28 | motive | I'm in the mood for laughter, so I'm watching the daily how |
| 04:13.33 | motive | apparently he hasn't been on this week? :( |
| 04:13.39 | motive | wait it's tuesday now |
| 04:13.41 | motive | nvm I'm an idiot |
| 04:13.45 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 04:16.32 | motive | wait no it's thursday |
| 04:16.34 | motive | what the fuck is wrong with me |
| 04:16.36 | motive | LOL |
| 04:17.12 | JademusSreg | A single night of rest, and this is what happens. |
| 04:17.30 | motive | motive - capable of spending an entire day arguing economics in #sc2mapster, but does he know what day it is? |
| 04:17.31 | motive | fuck that. |
| 04:18.58 | JademusSreg | Belief in conspiracy theories is not altogether different from belief in supernatural forces. |
| 04:19.11 | motive | True story. |
| 04:19.36 | motive | I for one, could never doubt the existence of the flying spaghetti monster. |
| 04:19.47 | motive | May his noodly appendage touch all of us in our own way. |
| 04:21.35 | JademusSreg | They share the terror of metaphyiscal uncertainty, and both attempt to solve this by positing the existence of unverifiable, all-powerful forces that take an active role in daily life. |
| 04:22.31 | motive | I've never had it put so nicely. |
| 04:23.34 | JademusSreg | And while, say, belief in the inevitability of a tyrannical, Orwellian shadowy regime may sound rather dreary, the point is that it makes existence seem more certain. |
| 04:24.12 | Kubi-CELL | Oh god its scpolitics. |
| 04:24.23 | motive | See, to me, my reaction is more along the lines of, "you're fucking nuts and how do you function in civilized society?" |
| 04:25.07 | JademusSreg | Feeling as though one is in control by believing one is aware and knowledgable. However terrible an outlook it may seem, it is far more comforting than the infinitely subtle and more complex reality that no one is in control of any of this mess. |
| 04:25.08 | Kubi-CELL | I dont |
| 04:26.28 | motive | I just don't know how anyone who believes in that stuff could sleep at night. |
| 04:26.45 | motive | I mean, if I thought that Newtown was a false-flag operation, I'd probably decide I don't want to live on this planet anymore. |
| 04:33.25 | JademusSreg | Ah, well, it's a response to a metaphysical problem, like how causality is a metaphysical belief in cause-and-effect, not merely the observation of cause-and-effect and infering their continuity specifically, but rather asserting that all phenomenon have case-and-effect relationships. It's an abstraction, and a useful one, but not logically certain. |
| 04:33.39 | JademusSreg | *cause |
| 04:33.57 | motive | JademusSreg, sometimes I imagine you as Morgan Freeman. Seriously, read what you just said in his voice. |
| 04:33.59 | motive | It's fucking awesome. |
| 04:34.09 | motive | I would watch a movie of Morgan Freeman reading. |
| 04:34.17 | JademusSreg | I concur. |
| 04:38.58 | JademusSreg | Which reminds me, I have trouble deciding which of 4 SC2 map concepts I should prototype. |
| 04:39.03 | Kubi-CELL | What the Fuck are you guys smoking. |
| 04:39.22 | JademusSreg | Marlboro Smooth or Djarum Blacks, usually. |
| 04:40.22 | Kubi-CELL | Real men chew big boy candy. called grizzley |
| 04:41.05 | JademusSreg | I've never chewed on a bear before. Sounds exciting. |
| 04:41.46 | Kubi-CELL | Jade.you see my pastebin earlier? |
| 04:42.12 | JademusSreg | No sorry, I was either afk or busy. |
| 04:42.21 | JademusSreg | Got the link or need I scroll up? |
| 04:42.29 | Kubi-CELL | scroll im at work |
| 04:43.32 | JademusSreg | Alright. |
| 04:44.29 | JademusSreg | The program logic on display here is distressing, but I'll assume you were sober at the time. |
| 04:44.33 | JademusSreg | So what's the issue? |
| 04:47.27 | Kubi-CELL | You don't see problem? |
| 04:47.57 | Kubi-CELL | we'll it says that each team has the same number of units in the area. |
| 04:48.18 | Kubi-CELL | I am thinking I fudged the unit group logic up |
| 04:48.22 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 04:49.13 | Kubi-CELL | The player portion specificalpy |
| 04:49.30 | Kubi-CELL | But you like my neatness? |
| 04:49.36 | Kubi-CELL | Its beautiful |
| 04:51.11 | JademusSreg | This is a masterpiece instrument for psychological torment developed by the most brilliant minds of the opposition to my reign, sent back to this time to damage my brain, no, my very soul, and prevent my ascendency. |
| 04:51.16 | Kueken | do you mean this? |
| 04:51.17 | Kueken | UnitBehaviorRemove(Doppelganger,VoidBarrier_ID,1); |
| 04:51.22 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/bBGHArVB |
| 04:51.24 | Kueken | damn |
| 04:51.30 | Kueken | wrong paste ;D |
| 04:52.42 | Kueken | well, why loop when you can copy&paste :/ |
| 04:52.59 | Kubi-CELL | I like.loops |
| 04:53.09 | Kubi-CELL | And fruitloops |
| 04:54.18 | JademusSreg | Kub, what in the nine hells is the purpose, the design, behind this abomination? |
| 04:54.38 | JademusSreg | What is it intended to accomplish? |
| 04:55.17 | Kueken | it seems to check units at some sort of capture point and wants to determine, which team has the most units in the area |
| 04:55.29 | Kubi-CELL | Exactly |
| 04:55.37 | Kubi-CELL | ' |
| 04:56.01 | Kubi-CELL | It runs when units near it apply 1000 behavior stacks to it |
| 04:56.03 | motive | Oh my God |
| 04:56.18 | motive | My brain just threw an unhandled exception by looking at this code. |
| 04:56.19 | motive | :( |
| 04:56.21 | JademusSreg | If I wanted to know how that thing works, I entomb myself in the lightless pit where veteran port-o-potties are buried. |
| 04:56.26 | Kubi-CELL | They drop off if they are in combat. Which makes it contested |
| 04:56.41 | Kubi-CELL | Why u making fun of it |
| 04:56.46 | Kubi-CELL | Its good assholes. |
| 04:56.51 | JademusSreg | I ask its purpose so I can help you with a better approach. |
| 04:57.08 | motive | In general if you see large sections of code, there's a better, cleaner way to do it. |
| 04:57.20 | motive | There's elegance in simplicity. |
| 04:57.28 | motive | Or reducing complex systems to simple logic. |
| 04:58.52 | Kubi-CELL | What ur saying mines too complex? |
| 04:59.09 | JademusSreg | Most advice on programming logic are variants on the observation that its easier to code if you can form a mental model from the source easily. |
| 04:59.22 | motive | That's something I cannot agree enough with. |
| 04:59.31 | motive | The most important step of programming anything for me is just getting a design in my head. |
| 04:59.36 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 04:59.38 | motive | Once the design is done, implementation is easy, even if I don't know how to do it. |
| 04:59.48 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 05:00.09 | JademusSreg | Though I've always got some API or DOM references on hand. |
| 05:00.10 | JademusSreg | HAha |
| 05:00.27 | motive | I never write out my design, I just kind of run with it. |
| 05:00.35 | motive | If I'm programming in a language like Java I'll have the API out on a separate monitor. |
| 05:00.42 | motive | Otherwise though I just mostly chug along on my own. |
| 05:01.22 | motive | Or if it's an IRC bot, I'll have an open copy of the appropriate RFC, etc. |
| 05:01.26 | JademusSreg | Yes. Though the Javadocs for the standard library has some amusing comments, definitely snarky. |
| 05:01.48 | motive | https://github.com/Motive/BweeRewrite/blob/master/Bwee/ScriptInterface.cpp |
| 05:01.51 | motive | I want to clean this up so bad :( |
| 05:02.36 | JademusSreg | Anyway, Kub, for srs, not just entertaining myself, what is this supposed to do? The result, the purpose, the why, the design. |
| 05:03.07 | motive | Oh... |
| 05:03.07 | motive | oh |
| 05:03.07 | motive | fuck |
| 05:03.20 | JademusSreg | I could figure it out from reading the code, but no point. |
| 05:03.23 | motive | Guys this is an emergency. Where can I buy Bose headphones at 1AM around the New York area? |
| 05:03.28 | motive | One of my earbuds just died. |
| 05:03.29 | motive | Oh fuck :( |
| 05:03.38 | JademusSreg | Bodega. |
| 05:04.02 | motive | This is literally the worst thing that has ever happened. |
| 05:04.03 | JademusSreg | Though it would need to be a bodega in an upscale block. |
| 05:04.34 | motive | :( |
| 05:05.07 | motive | God this is so bad. |
| 05:05.17 | Kubi-CELL | It was my first draft you assholes |
| 05:05.30 | motive | I don't believe in drafts. |
| 05:05.33 | motive | Do it right the first time, imo |
| 05:05.45 | Kubi-CELL | It is right blizzard is wrong |
| 05:06.45 | motive | Rest in peace, Bose earbuds. Summer 2010 - Spring 2013. |
| 05:06.46 | motive | You will be missed. |
| 05:07.06 | JademusSreg | Kub, what is its purpose? |
| 05:07.43 | motive | I kind of get what he's trying to do. |
| 05:07.49 | motive | It's just hardcoded really... hard. |
| 05:07.59 | motive | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:08.07 | motive | Control of the artifact is determined by who has the most units. |
| 05:08.21 | motive | 4 total teams, comprised of players 1-12 divided into 4 equal groups. |
| 05:08.47 | motive | The problem's scope is actually really simple: add everyone's units up and then figure out which team has the most. |
| 05:09.41 | motive | I'd do it with a Unit Group Loop instead of the Add all units in matching conditions query. |
| 05:09.42 | JademusSreg | Careful ought be those who'd here paste such hoary eldritch siguls. |
| 05:10.49 | motive | The team ID can be found from the player number by t = x / 4 + 1 where x = playerid, and t = team id. |
| 05:11.14 | motive | So Unit Group - Add (Picked Unit) to Teams[Owner of (Picked Unit) / 4 + 1] |
| 05:11.18 | motive | Then use your for loop, and done. |
| 05:11.21 | motive | BOOM |
| 05:11.23 | motive | You've been optimized. |
| 05:11.55 | motive | Also if you want to get really fun. |
| 05:12.23 | motive | IDToUI[] = { "One", "Two", "Three", "Four" }; |
| 05:12.41 | motive | UI - Display "Team " + IDToUI[Winner-1] + " Captured" |
| 05:13.10 | motive | Code reduction is sexy. |
| 05:13.25 | JademusSreg | Word. |
| 05:14.10 | JademusSreg | However, tempting as it is to do so, I refuse unless given a design. I may as well refactor Proust. |
| 05:14.33 | motive | I hate Galaxy because I can't use fun names in my designs. |
| 05:14.36 | JademusSreg | Not comparing volume, but rather doping so would be just as pointless. |
| 05:14.43 | JademusSreg | *doing |
| 05:14.46 | JademusSreg | Hah |
| 05:14.52 | motive | I want a factories, constructors, interfaces! |
| 05:14.52 | JademusSreg | Motive. |
| 05:15.46 | JademusSreg | Try structs with funcref members to imitate static util class method syntax? |
| 05:16.10 | motive | I actually (a long ass time ago) tried to implement C-style coding in Galaxy by implementing everything C had in lots and lots of functions. |
| 05:16.23 | motive | Then the idea was that anyone else could go along later and write something to convert C-style code to that fucked up Galaxy conversion. |
| 05:17.13 | JademusSreg | I've considered structs with funcref members, for the delicious syntax, but not convinced it would be a good use of my time. |
| 05:17.23 | motive | Exactly. |
| 05:17.38 | motive | I wish Blizzard had chosen LUA for map code. |
| 05:17.42 | motive | THAT would be so fucking fun. |
| 05:19.11 | JademusSreg | As useful as that could be, and I say this only on the basis of personal taste which has no argumentive weight, ew, gross, dreadful approach to variable types. |
| 05:19.41 | motive | I like strongly typed languages, you're right. But LUA is so preferrable to Galaxy. |
| 05:20.06 | JademusSreg | Most any language would be, har har. |
| 05:20.15 | motive | Don't be so sure! |
| 05:20.20 | JademusSreg | Mindfuck. |
| 05:20.23 | JademusSreg | Called it. |
| 05:20.29 | motive | If Blizzard had used Sieve, or Tcl, I would've never made a single map in SC2. |
| 05:20.32 | motive | I'd just quit. |
| 05:20.34 | motive | Period, done. |
| 05:20.41 | motive | And those are actual real languages. |
| 05:20.44 | motive | Fuck them so hard. :/ |
| 05:20.51 | JademusSreg | *not esoteric |
| 05:20.56 | JademusSreg | They're all real. -D |
| 05:21.00 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 05:21.02 | motive | xD |
| 05:21.38 | JademusSreg | Anyway, in reality, galaxy fits a specific set of needs. |
| 05:22.05 | motive | Failure in the most epic way possible while still maintaining usability, and giving the programmers they pay six figures the task of reinventing the wheel by making a shitty programming language? |
| 05:22.22 | motive | I bet some asshole had just read a book on writing a compiler and decided to make Galaxy. :( |
| 05:22.25 | motive | haha |
| 05:22.34 | JademusSreg | And it performs well enough*asterisk*. |
| 05:22.48 | motive | *asterick*asterick*asterick*asterick* |
| 05:22.51 | motive | [Citation needed] |
| 05:24.22 | JademusSreg | But no, I refer to security, "obviousness", XML to language conversion, and language interpretability by the PCRE shit in the client. |
| 05:24.39 | motive | Heh, XML to language conversion. |
| 05:24.43 | motive | The fact that's a thing makes me sad. |
| 05:25.53 | JademusSreg | Yes, but I suppose level designers or their subordinates like not worrying about syntax errors. I choose optimism here and do not assume a lack of technical proficiency. |
| 05:25.55 | JademusSreg | * |
| 05:26.07 | motive | Meh |
| 05:26.23 | motive | I wouldn't complain even if Blizzard just had people manually compile code, so I'm an outlier. |
| 05:26.25 | motive | Haha |
| 05:26.57 | JademusSreg | That would be great, unless you're the server techs maintaining the Bnet shit. |
| 05:28.01 | motive | Meh, they'd live. |
| 05:28.23 | JademusSreg | And you get some goddamn map accessing unbound memory addresses and executing arbitrary code. |
| 05:28.53 | motive | But, I like buffer overflows! |
| 05:29.18 | JademusSreg | Worse, the servers are fine but by facilitating the distribution, they go to court over their culpability, and then Warcraft 4 never gets released. |
| 05:29.26 | motive | Oh god WC4 |
| 05:30.22 | JademusSreg | So yeah, ridiculous as it sounds, Blizzard learned some lessons with the return-bug exploit. |
| 05:30.38 | motive | To be fair, it was pretty stupid to not check memory boundaries in the first place. |
| 05:30.51 | motive | Or not fix a bug that affects how the stack works in their scripting language once discovered. |
| 05:31.27 | JademusSreg | And galaxy's execution is intended to be secure first. |
| 05:31.33 | motive | Is it? ;) |
| 05:31.40 | JademusSreg | -intended- |
| 05:31.57 | motive | Wouldn't using a language like Lua, which is more mature and has devoted, open source developers, and is made to be used on embedded devices or integrate directly with C++, be a better choice? |
| 05:32.00 | motive | At least given those concerns? :) |
| 05:32.48 | JademusSreg | Nope, because then you have a wider pool of devs interested in taking a crack at your security. |
| 05:33.06 | motive | Security through obscurity is not really a valid method anymore. |
| 05:34.13 | JademusSreg | As a shitty properiatary language, it's less interesting to outsiders. |
| 05:34.28 | motive | It's also shitty. |
| 05:34.28 | motive | :) |
| 05:34.41 | JademusSreg | *proprietary |
| 05:34.42 | motive | But JASS was, too, and people still found a security exploit. |
| 05:34.43 | motive | So, boom. |
| 05:34.48 | JademusSreg | Yes, on both counts. |
| 05:36.02 | JademusSreg | But yes, I can despise the scripting language's limits, but I understand the choice. |
| 05:36.20 | motive | TL;DR: More programming, pls |
| 05:37.02 | JademusSreg | Perhaps I will seduce you to join me in prototyping some concepts. |
| 05:37.51 | JademusSreg | Or rather, at least deciding which to prototype. |
| 05:37.53 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 05:38.44 | motive | I want a prototype! |
| 05:38.49 | motive | And I want to instantiate my prototypes. |
| 05:38.55 | motive | And then I want to delete them! |
| 05:38.57 | motive | And make more. |
| 05:39.20 | JademusSreg | (Haha, you damn well know what I mean.) |
| 05:46.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-169-139.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:06.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kubi-CELL (~Kubi@153.sub-174-225-134.myvzw.com) |
| 06:08.01 | Kubi-CELL | Im back |
| 06:08.10 | Kubi-CELL | what mass exploit |
| 06:08.11 | Kubi-CELL | Bass |
| 06:08.14 | JademusSreg | Reminds me of some songs. |
| 06:08.21 | Kubi-CELL | Jass |
| 06:08.39 | Kubi-CELL | Ffs phone stop correcting my shot |
| 06:08.44 | Kubi-CELL | Shit |
| 06:11.29 | JademusSreg | http://youtu.be/0GLoHifu6aM |
| 06:12.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster twodie (4e3c1a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.60.26.40) |
| 06:18.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.181.226.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 06:21.33 | G0A | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkEuSesjGzY |
| 06:22.31 | JademusSreg | Remembers the most badass SC1 map. |
| 06:23.44 | JademusSreg | The 12 Days of Starcraft. |
| 06:25.36 | JademusSreg | 12 days of christmas as sung by Starcraft units. |
| 06:26.14 | JademusSreg | Archon had the best line. "I hate all this singing." |
| 06:28.57 | Kueken | so |
| 06:29.26 | Kueken | if I wanted to make a shield spell, which absorbs a specific amount of damage WITHOUT using actual shields on the unit |
| 06:29.39 | Kueken | can I do that properly now? |
| 06:29.54 | Kubi-CELL | Behavior counts for damage |
| 06:29.57 | Kubi-CELL | ??? |
| 06:30.02 | JademusSreg | What prevented it before? |
| 06:30.28 | Kueken | well, since data cannot keep track of damage amount, we are forced to go triggers |
| 06:30.38 | Kubi-CELL | Kueken trigger it? |
| 06:30.50 | Kueken | and triggers can only heal after taking damage, so it doesn't prevent fatal damage |
| 06:31.09 | Kubi-CELL | The problem is if a unit gets the killing blow on the unit while shielded you have to make antideath trigger |
| 06:31.15 | Kueken | and if we add an additional behavior preventing fatal damage, we cannot detect the damage amount properly |
| 06:31.29 | Kubi-CELL | Make it apply a behavior that prevents fatal damage. |
| 06:31.44 | Kubi-CELL | God damn you. |
| 06:31.57 | Kueken | yep, been there, tried that ;) |
| 06:32.19 | Kubi-CELL | Well thats the flaw in a shield doesn't prevent one shot |
| 06:32.28 | Kubi-CELL | Thats a small percentage of that happening |
| 06:32.46 | Kueken | well, if it only would fail on a one-shot from full hp, that wouldn't be so bad |
| 06:33.04 | Kueken | but it always fails when taking damage > current hp |
| 06:33.23 | Kueken | so when you cast the shield on low hitpoints, it will not protect you at all |
| 06:33.46 | Kueken | also its not even limited to a single damage instance, but rather to total damage taken in one game tick |
| 06:34.25 | Kueken | so if we do marine stutter-stepping with a big group, the threshold for a kill through shield is way higher |
| 06:34.46 | Kueken | yeah... thats my problem |
| 06:35.00 | Kueken | suggestions? ;( |
| 06:35.38 | JademusSreg | Investigating. |
| 06:35.48 | Kubi-CELL | make it so you can only use it above a life threshold |
| 06:35.57 | Kueken | :D |
| 06:36.13 | JademusSreg | Out of curiosity, why is it problematic to use shields? |
| 06:36.35 | JademusSreg | Also, iirc, some vitals can exceed the max. |
| 06:36.58 | Kueken | it is on a protoss unit, and I found it kind of counter-intuitive to add bonus shields to the unit |
| 06:37.03 | Kueken | it is probably doable |
| 06:37.21 | JademusSreg | Not counter intuitive at all. |
| 06:37.38 | JademusSreg | Add an extra wifreframe. =D |
| 06:37.41 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 06:37.43 | Kueken | :p |
| 06:38.10 | Kubi-CELL | What color and name should terran shields be. |
| 06:38.48 | Kueken | metal and combat shields |
| 06:38.55 | Kueken | see marine |
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| 06:54.52 | Kubi-CELL | See my fist in your face |
| 06:56.10 | Kueken | uh, close-up |
| 06:56.13 | Kueken | someone needs a manicure |
| 07:01.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster IcE^ (~ice@37-46-178-169.customers.ownit.se) |
| 07:04.07 | JademusSreg | It should match the model, Kub. |
| 07:04.59 | JademusSreg | Which model do you intend to use for the terran shields? |
| 07:05.42 | JademusSreg | Kueken, setting the current shields over the max may not be interesting, but it is servicable. |
| 07:06.00 | JademusSreg | Though I do have ideas which are more convoluted. |
| 07:06.46 | JademusSreg | Niiice. Conjoined behavior type got some additions. |
| 07:06.59 | Kueken | yep, can share any vital now, right? |
| 07:07.08 | JademusSreg | Share Acquire, Energy, Life, Selection, Shields, and Visible. |
| 07:07.23 | Kueken | share acquire? |
| 07:07.31 | Kueken | that sounds useful for squads |
| 07:07.34 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 07:07.46 | Kueken | selection and stuff too, ofc |
| 07:07.54 | JademusSreg | Quite. |
| 07:08.33 | Kueken | what I dislike about using shields would be, that it will then use shield armor at all times |
| 07:08.38 | JademusSreg | Not for CoH/DoW style squads, but squads none the less. |
| 07:09.06 | Kueken | while a triggered shielding behavior would take into account either shield or life armor, depending on whats currently active |
| 07:09.20 | Kueken | but well, thats a minor issue |
| 07:10.05 | Kueken | also, shield regeneration could mess up the amount of protection provided |
| 07:10.09 | JademusSreg | Well, if you like convoluted solutions, try making a bunker-like container unit. =D |
| 07:10.17 | G0A | omg http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ROrpKx3aIjA |
| 07:10.35 | JademusSreg | And shield regen will not regen over the max, so that's a non-issue. |
| 07:12.00 | Kueken | but it will regen to the max, even if some of the amount of the additional shield should already be consumed |
| 07:12.20 | Kueken | so I would need to dynamically adjust the max |
| 07:13.05 | JademusSreg | Ah, I expect you'd rather not heal shields in this way. |
| 07:13.35 | Kueken | yes, but I cannot deactivate the shield regeneration either |
| 07:14.08 | Kueken | that stuff is not an issue for non-protoss units |
| 07:15.18 | Kueken | bunker is definitely an unorthodox idea to solve this :D |
| 07:16.31 | Kueken | however I doubt, it is practical, it would use its own armor values instead of the source unit's, you would need redirect for everything, and I am pretty sure you cannot show the unit within a bunker |
| 07:16.46 | JademusSreg | Options: raise shields over max, raise current and max, put unit in a bunker-like container, morph (fraught with its own problems), conjoined unit sharing shields, mana-shield like approach. |
| 07:16.57 | JademusSreg | Sure you can. |
| 07:17.04 | JademusSreg | The unit is merely hidden. |
| 07:17.21 | Kueken | okay, so we use invisible bunker and dont hide the unit |
| 07:17.35 | JademusSreg | Well, basically, yeah. |
| 07:17.39 | Kueken | what would be a mana shield like approach? |
| 07:18.01 | Kueken | last I know mana shield was not realizable due to the exact same problems |
| 07:18.01 | JademusSreg | Using energy as ersatz shields. |
| 07:18.17 | JademusSreg | Oh, and also buff / attribute decrementing. |
| 07:18.55 | Kueken | is "ersatz" an english word now? ;) |
| 07:20.01 | JademusSreg | English language, had it a definition, would mean "on loan". |
| 07:20.35 | Kueken | googles loan |
| 07:21.00 | Kueken | ah |
| 07:21.08 | JademusSreg | And the archaic literal meaning would be "taken for little or no recompense, or otherwise by force". |
| 07:22.02 | Kueken | I didn't know ersatz yet, just the standard kindergarten, poltergeist, doppelganger |
| 07:22.50 | JademusSreg | http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainErsatz |
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| 07:25.17 | Kueken | just seeing the ProtossWeatherShield model in the editor |
| 07:25.41 | Kueken | and I remember some distinct pre-HotS screenshots showing an entire protoss base using these shields |
| 07:25.53 | JademusSreg | Yeah. |
| 07:25.56 | Kueken | somehow I must have missed that mission in the campaign |
| 07:26.18 | JademusSreg | I expect they were cut, but then I've not yet finished Kaldir. |
| 07:26.30 | Kueken | oh, so I spoilered you |
| 07:26.32 | Kueken | sorry |
| 07:26.48 | JademusSreg | I read all the spoilers before buying HotS. |
| 07:26.54 | Kueken | :D |
| 07:26.58 | JademusSreg | I actively seek them out. |
| 07:27.55 | JademusSreg | Why should I play Mass Effect series when I can look at the wikis, see how shit goes down in a multiplicity of possible game states. |
| 07:29.17 | Kueken | : |
| 07:29.19 | Kueken | D |
| 07:29.27 | Kueken | that looks cool |
| 07:29.32 | Kueken | StasisTomb.m3 |
| 07:30.02 | JademusSreg | Cute. |
| 07:31.20 | JademusSreg | Assets\Effects\Protoss\HybridGravitronPrisonImpactSwarm\HybridGravitronPrisonImpactSwarm.m3 |
| 07:31.25 | JademusSreg | Neato. |
| 07:35.20 | Kueken | can you recommend any screen recording applications? |
| 07:35.38 | Kueken | I used Camtasia until now, but it broke and now it wants me to pay |
| 07:35.45 | JademusSreg | Hm. I'll check what I've got on disk. |
| 07:40.25 | JademusSreg | I've got a totally, probably, almost certainly legit Fraps and TeamViewer. I hear good things about Xsplit. |
| 07:40.58 | JademusSreg | I don't record often, so you'd want to ask those who do. |
| 07:42.38 | twodie | xsplit more for streaming, plus last time i used it sure requires some money from you. |
| 07:42.49 | twodie | montly or something like that |
| 07:45.01 | JademusSreg | Beyond my knowledge. |
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| 07:49.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken1 (~Kueken@brsg-d9bee5b3.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 07:52.59 | Eagles | I recommend Open Broadcasting Software (you can record to disc only ofcourse), it's much less CPU intensive than Xsplit |
| 07:55.27 | Eagles | And now back to my Inventory thingy. When I use TriggerAddEventUnitInventoryChange(null, c_unitInventoryChangeBuys, null) with condition Comparison((UnitInventoryCount((EventUnit()), c_unitInventoryCountEmpty)), ==, 0) it always returns true when there's 5/6 items, because the condition is checked after the item is bought, not before- any ideas how I can resolve that? |
| 07:55.58 | JademusSreg | Er, wat? |
| 07:57.39 | JademusSreg | Ah, pardon. GUI raw view is weird. |
| 07:58.03 | Eagles | http://puu.sh/2Ch2d/c2e38c9bae here's a screenshot if that's better =P |
| 07:58.07 | JademusSreg | Anyway, you could wait one tick. |
| 07:58.25 | Eagles | Ohhh good idea! |
| 07:58.30 | JademusSreg | Oh, when do you want it to check? Before the item is bought or after? |
| 07:58.43 | Eagles | before |
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| 07:59.18 | Eagles | err yeah then one tick after won't work, darn |
| 07:59.22 | JademusSreg | Sounds like there should be a validator for this. |
| 07:59.35 | Eagles | There is, but I don't know how to use validators/combine them with requirements |
| 08:00.07 | JademusSreg | Dunno what you mean. |
| 08:00.24 | JademusSreg | There is a PlayerRequirement validator. |
| 08:00.35 | Eagles | How do I use the validator for my shop? |
| 08:00.46 | JademusSreg | Is there a validator to check inventory in some way? |
| 08:00.54 | Eagles | yes |
| 08:01.21 | JademusSreg | I seee. |
| 08:01.29 | JademusSreg | Inventory Is Full, how convenient. |
| 08:01.40 | Kueken1 | hm |
| 08:01.46 | JademusSreg | So whatever does the selling should validate before sale. |
| 08:01.53 | JademusSreg | Sounds simple enough. |
| 08:02.28 | Kueken1 | one of my trigger variables loses its reference, when the caster is being attacked by an air unit o_0 |
| 08:03.09 | JademusSreg | Kueken, that's amusing. What's the trigger? |
| 08:03.15 | Kueken | that seems awfully random |
| 08:03.37 | Kueken | my Doppelganger trigger, relaying orders issued to the caster |
| 08:03.54 | Kueken | the doppelganger is stored in a global var on creation |
| 08:04.22 | Kueken | and the reference is lost when the caster gets attacked by a battlecruiser |
| 08:04.23 | Eagles | There's no Validator field in my Train Ability |
| 08:04.29 | JademusSreg | Debugger. =D |
| 08:05.34 | JademusSreg | Eag, that's unfortunate. |
| 08:05.42 | Eagles | yes :( |
| 08:06.41 | JademusSreg | Perhaps you need a mediator. |
| 08:07.46 | JademusSreg | The Pawn abil class allows validators. |
| 08:08.32 | Kueken | o_0 |
| 08:09.00 | Kueken | the variable gets overridden by the missile of the battlecruiser weapon :D |
| 08:09.05 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 08:09.25 | Kueken | it seems to count as "created by my hero" |
| 08:09.41 | Kueken | and I missed an id check |
| 08:09.43 | Eagles | what does that mean Jademus? |
| 08:09.55 | JademusSreg | Clearly I'm missing information there, Kueken. =D |
| 08:10.06 | Kueken | yeah I know |
| 08:10.19 | JademusSreg | Eag, I don't know what the Pawn ability class does, so I can't say if its any use. |
| 08:10.26 | Kueken | I store the unit in the variable on the "Unit is created" event |
| 08:10.45 | Kueken | specifying only the caster as the source of the creation |
| 08:10.54 | JademusSreg | As for a mediator, you need something between the player and the train ability if you want to validate it. |
| 08:10.57 | Kueken | no further validation for created unit id or ability |
| 08:11.28 | Kueken | so as long as the hero creates the unit, it gets saved as doppelganger |
| 08:11.45 | Kueken | but apparently missiles launched at the hero count as units created by the hero |
| 08:11.50 | JademusSreg | Amusing. However, what's the event? |
| 08:12.13 | Kueken | TriggerAddEventUnitCreated(TriggerCreate("Doppelganger_onCreate"),null,null,null); |
| 08:12.22 | Kueken | hm |
| 08:12.27 | JademusSreg | Yeah, null unitref. |
| 08:12.37 | JademusSreg | MEans all units set it off. |
| 08:12.42 | Kueken | I was pretty sure I had the caster unitref o_0 |
| 08:12.49 | Kueken | where did it go? |
| 08:12.54 | JademusSreg | Not applicable. |
| 08:13.14 | JademusSreg | You store your hero in a global, I expect? |
| 08:13.39 | Kueken | yep |
| 08:13.40 | JademusSreg | Get UnitRefFromVariable and give that to the unitref parameter. |
| 08:16.15 | Kueken | hm |
| 08:16.21 | Kueken | I checked for the unit id |
| 08:16.32 | JademusSreg | Bah. |
| 08:16.46 | Kueken | no, I mean |
| 08:16.50 | Kueken | I checked before |
| 08:17.14 | Kueken | also, the UnitRefFromUnit or UnitRefFromVariable didn't work |
| 08:17.44 | JademusSreg | How did the latter not work? |
| 08:18.02 | Kueken | it did never register the doppelganger |
| 08:18.11 | JademusSreg | You input the string? |
| 08:18.15 | Kueken | yes |
| 08:18.25 | JademusSreg | gv_ |
| 08:18.42 | JademusSreg | And the first char following the underscore lower case? |
| 08:18.47 | Kueken | ? |
| 08:18.50 | Kueken | I use script |
| 08:18.52 | JademusSreg | gv_someGUIGeneratedVariable |
| 08:18.56 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 08:19.22 | JademusSreg | Silly me. Wasn't sure which tools you were using these days. |
| 08:19.26 | Kueken | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:19.27 | Kueken | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:19.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Blub\w (~wry@unaffiliated/blubw/x-6625061) |
| 08:20.03 | Kueken | the id is correct, double-checked that |
| 08:20.10 | JademusSreg | And Original is the global you use for your hero? |
| 08:20.14 | Kueken | yes |
| 08:20.32 | Kueken | and UnitFromID(103) is the hero |
| 08:20.37 | JademusSreg | I would have expected PlayerHero, or some such. |
| 08:20.52 | Kueken | yeah, it will be changed |
| 08:21.10 | Kueken | that was trigger specific, original and doppelganger |
| 08:21.11 | JademusSreg | Anyway, the variable is set? |
| 08:21.24 | Kueken | its set right there, I posted it :) |
| 08:21.34 | JademusSreg | Wat, why bother with a trigger specific global var in this context? |
| 08:21.47 | JademusSreg | No matter. |
| 08:21.52 | Kueken | just because, its not meant to be perfect |
| 08:21.57 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 08:22.21 | JademusSreg | What does the debugger have to say about all this? |
| 08:22.25 | Kueken | was more like a proof of concept trigger anyway, knowing me I will rewrite the whole thing anyway |
| 08:22.55 | JademusSreg | Add breakpoint; to the line following the event register, see what state it's in. |
| 08:24.58 | JademusSreg | Or hell, you can even rewrite the script while testing if you want. |
| 08:25.35 | JademusSreg | There must be a broken link along the way. |
| 08:26.16 | JademusSreg | That, or the launch missile data is really terrible. |
| 08:26.39 | Kueken | its the default battlecruiser :D |
| 08:26.59 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 08:27.06 | Kueken | how do I add that breakpoint? |
| 08:27.11 | JademusSreg | Wouldn't be the first time standard data was bugged. |
| 08:27.15 | JademusSreg | breakpoint; |
| 08:27.31 | JademusSreg | Shouldn't throw a compile error. |
| 08:28.27 | Kueken | variable holds correct unit |
| 08:29.14 | Kueken | also there is another trigger registered in the next line, which works flawlessly with the same unit reference |
| 08:29.22 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 08:29.42 | JademusSreg | Paste ze script. |
| 08:29.48 | Kueken | not to mention the |
| 08:29.48 | Kueken | if(!UnitGetType(u)=="ExecutorDoppelganger"){return false;} |
| 08:30.08 | Kueken | u being EventUnit() |
| 08:30.30 | JademusSreg | If third-party tools are involved, just the mapscript, preferably. |
| 08:30.34 | Kueken | after the return, the next action isn't supposed to be executed, correct? |
| 08:30.46 | JademusSreg | Correct. |
| 08:31.00 | Kueken | the next line would override the variable |
| 08:31.33 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 08:31.42 | JademusSreg | !x==y |
| 08:31.49 | JademusSreg | How would you parse this? |
| 08:32.04 | JademusSreg | And how would you parse this if x had null vlaue? |
| 08:32.05 | Kueken | goot point, should use !0 |
| 08:32.08 | Kueken | != |
| 08:32.19 | JademusSreg | *value |
| 08:36.22 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/K0XVXRtA |
| 08:36.36 | Kueken | thats essentially all the mapscript, deactivated everything else |
| 08:37.10 | Kueken | besides a gui trigger revealing the map and a file holding a Print function |
| 08:37.41 | Eagles | FREAKING INVENTORY |
| 08:38.08 | JademusSreg | Few things. |
| 08:39.24 | Kueken | the !== to != fixed it btw :D |
| 08:39.30 | JademusSreg | Why isn't Original initialized from its definition? I don't see the UnitCreated event register using the UnitRef. |
| 08:40.19 | Kueken | I could null Origin, but I saw no point, and I couldn't call UnitFromID outside of a function |
| 08:40.34 | Kueken | and I removed the reference again so I could test the id check |
| 08:40.45 | Kueken | reference still refuses to work |
| 08:41.03 | Kueken | for the following order trigger it works flawlessly |
| 08:41.20 | JademusSreg | Line 1 unit Original. Maddeningly isn't initialized from its definition. =D |
| 08:42.04 | Kueken | yes indeed, it is set to UnitFromID in the initializer function before it is used |
| 08:42.33 | Kueken | because I couldn't use UnitFromID for initializing, it didn't work |
| 08:42.55 | Kueken | I could set it to null, but that would be redundant |
| 08:43.04 | JademusSreg | Actually. |
| 08:43.11 | JademusSreg | Try it. |
| 08:43.24 | Kueken | o_0 |
| 08:43.25 | JademusSreg | Couldn't hurt. |
| 08:43.34 | JademusSreg | Meanwhile, I'll test something. |
| 08:43.43 | Kueken | yeah, but it is always definitely set before it is used in the trigger |
| 08:44.39 | Kueken | nope, still doesn't work |
| 08:44.55 | JademusSreg | unit shittyUnit = UnitFromId(103); This compiles for me. |
| 08:45.15 | Kueken | it compiles |
| 08:45.20 | JademusSreg | So not working is another data point, not an issue. |
| 08:45.21 | Kueken | but it won't hold the unit |
| 08:45.40 | Kueken | at least it appeared it didn't for me |
| 08:46.17 | JademusSreg | Won't hold in what sense? |
| 08:46.43 | JademusSreg | Try a global unitref var, inspect its value. |
| 08:46.57 | Kueken | I didn't check if it was null afterwards, but I couldn't use it in a trigger |
| 08:47.33 | JademusSreg | Syntax error? =D |
| 08:48.06 | JademusSreg | Or didn't fix the issue? Or broke the trigger? |
| 08:48.37 | Kueken | no I mean if I would execute an action on the unit variable, for example kill it, it would have no effect |
| 08:51.01 | JademusSreg | UnitEventSetNullVariableInvalid(true); |
| 08:51.15 | Kueken | global unitref holds correct unit |
| 08:51.24 | Kueken | its probably a data issue |
| 08:51.47 | Kueken | the doppelganger is a toggleable behavior, the initial effect being create unit |
| 08:51.53 | JademusSreg | remembers when Ultra splash covered an entire command center. |
| 08:52.14 | Kueken | probably for this chain the caster simply doesn't count as the creator of the unit |
| 08:52.35 | Kueken | since the unitref works perfectly for the order trigger |
| 08:53.17 | JademusSreg | So I wonder if its the battlecruiser's data tree that's messed up or an interaction. |
| 08:53.36 | Kueken | interestingly enough, neither the ability nor the behavior count as creating the unit as well |
| 08:53.56 | Kueken | the battlecruiser's interference was due to the !x==y thing |
| 08:54.05 | Kueken | changing to x!=y fixed that |
| 08:54.26 | JademusSreg | Ahh. |
| 08:54.40 | JademusSreg | Clearly I am not kept up to date on these matters. |
| 08:54.56 | Kueken | I wrote that, I am pretty sure |
| 08:55.13 | Kueken | anyway, seems I am forced to keep the null unitref, though |
| 08:55.28 | JademusSreg | (Clearly I don't read everything in chat.) |
| 08:55.38 | Kueken | nup |
| 08:56.41 | Kueken | the order stuff is buggy as hell anyway |
| 08:56.48 | Kueken | noticed this line? |
| 08:56.56 | Kueken | if(id=="VoidBarrier"){o=Order(AbilityCommand(id,0));} |
| 08:57.18 | JademusSreg | I skimmed it, as it wasn't in _onCreate. |
| 08:57.29 | Kueken | okay |
| 08:57.44 | Kueken | basically, all orders are relayed to the doppelganger |
| 08:58.40 | Kueken | but for some reason, in case of the void barrier spell, issuing the triggering order to the doppelganger caused an error, saying the order wouldn't need a target point |
| 08:58.53 | Kueken | which is correct, its an effect-instant |
| 08:59.16 | Kueken | it also doesn't register as target point for the offseting |
| 08:59.28 | JademusSreg | Reminds me of some of my AI work. |
| 09:00.01 | Kueken | but for some reason I could not issue the exact same order to the unit, I had to re-build it from the id used by the ability of the order |
| 09:00.16 | Kueken | no idea why |
| 09:00.35 | JademusSreg | What ability? Instant? |
| 09:00.40 | JademusSreg | Or target? |
| 09:00.52 | Kueken | (10:58:55) Kueken: which is correct, its an effect-instant |
| 09:00.55 | Kueken | :p |
| 09:01.09 | JademusSreg | You mentioned target point, as well. |
| 09:01.31 | Kueken | yes, it throws an error message mentioning target point |
| 09:01.59 | Kueken | when I try to issue the same order the original executed to the clone |
| 09:02.05 | JademusSreg | Sounds like the order and abilcmd aren't matching. |
| 09:02.36 | Kueken | well, reconstructing the order from the abilitycommand used by the order works |
| 09:03.32 | Kueken | also, I have no idea, why it would mention a target point, when the line before it gets checked if it is target point and fails that check |
| 09:03.49 | Kueken | (I checked that) |
| 09:05.39 | JademusSreg | If the order's target point is null, I imagine bugs would occur. |
| 09:06.29 | JademusSreg | Also, the first ability in the effect tree has location Target Point despite being Effect - Instant, I wonder what the TargetType would be. |
| 09:06.31 | Kueken | but I only mess with the target points, if the order is target point :d |
| 09:06.44 | JademusSreg | *the first effect in the ability's effect tree |
| 09:07.04 | Kueken | yes, that was my first thought as well, and indeed it was target point |
| 09:07.19 | JademusSreg | Effects often default target location field to Target whatever, |
| 09:07.21 | Kueken | but changing all effects in the chain to source unit didn't change anything |
| 09:07.38 | JademusSreg | Just the first in the effect tree would matter, I expect. |
| 09:08.16 | Kueken | I did as well, when the first didn't work, I changed all |
| 09:08.37 | Kueken | (all being 2 :D) |
| 09:09.41 | JademusSreg | if id is VoidBarrier, construct a new order? |
| 09:09.56 | JademusSreg | Void barrier is instant, right? |
| 09:09.59 | Kueken | exactly |
| 09:10.23 | JademusSreg | So why are you reconstructing the order there? Should work automagically. |
| 09:10.39 | Kueken | >.< |
| 09:10.47 | Kueken | thats what this is all about |
| 09:10.55 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 09:11.07 | Kueken | it doesn't, it throws some strange error message about target point |
| 09:11.20 | JademusSreg | It's just structurely, it makes me a goldfish. |
| 09:11.24 | JademusSreg | *structurally |
| 09:11.33 | JademusSreg | I jest, of course. |
| 09:11.55 | JademusSreg | Lemme look at some of my previous work to refresh my memory. |
| 09:13.23 | Kueken | random raging: I hate having to prefix every global variable -.- |
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| 09:13.51 | JademusSreg | Yes. I put them in structs, mostly. |
| 09:14.09 | JademusSreg | Can't tolerate loose change laying about. |
| 09:15.27 | JademusSreg | Interesting. |
| 09:15.46 | JademusSreg | onCreate has a line which differs from onOrder. |
| 09:16.24 | JademusSreg | if(OrderGetTargetType(o)==c_orderTargetPoint){Doppelganger_fixOrder(o);} if (i==c_orderTargetPoint){o=Doppelganger_fixOrder(o);} |
| 09:16.54 | JademusSreg | Ignoringthe superficial difference in the first half, why isn't the Fix commited to the var? |
| 09:17.24 | JademusSreg | Damn keyboard. *Ignoring the |
| 09:17.39 | Kueken | uhm |
| 09:17.41 | Kueken | what? |
| 09:17.49 | Kueken | h+ |
| 09:17.50 | Kueken | ah |
| 09:17.55 | Kueken | i see it |
| 09:17.56 | Kubi-CELL | JademusSreg is stoned |
| 09:17.58 | Kueken | o_0 |
| 09:18.12 | Kueken | so orders are actually passed by reference? |
| 09:18.17 | Kueken | since it works |
| 09:18.53 | JademusSreg | They are an object, with their own type in the keywords. |
| 09:19.18 | Kueken | so returning the order in the fix function is unnecessary |
| 09:19.46 | JademusSreg | Yeah. |
| 09:21.26 | Kueken | yep, changed it to void, still working |
| 09:22.05 | Kueken | unrelated to the error message, though, since the VoidBarrier order never gets in that branch |
| 09:22.54 | JademusSreg | Suggestion. |
| 09:23.44 | JademusSreg | Unpack all the steps to local variables. order, abilcmd, the id, target type, breakpoint; so we can see the local var values. |
| 09:24.00 | Kueken | just noticed I use a variable for the targeting type when I use it only once, and use the function in the loop :D |
| 09:24.10 | Kueken | that is probably supposed to be the other way around |
| 09:24.41 | Kueken | can you add multiple breakpoints and stutter to the next ones? |
| 09:24.47 | JademusSreg | Sure. |
| 09:25.12 | JademusSreg | You can add them from the source script, you can add them at runtime, whenever, |
| 09:25.26 | JademusSreg | Or have it automatically at breakpoints on galaxy errors. |
| 09:25.30 | JademusSreg | *add |
| 09:28.55 | Kueken | I wonder why you cannot show the debug window on fullscreen |
| 09:29.20 | JademusSreg | shrugs. |
| 09:32.26 | Kueken | okay, the order doesn't have a target point, but a target unit |
| 09:32.32 | Kueken | it targets the caster |
| 09:32.34 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 09:33.18 | Kueken | so the order you give has to be without target, but if that exact order is detected, it has a unit target o_0 |
| 09:33.43 | Kueken | missing the logic |
| 09:34.30 | Kueken | and how do we check for this? |
| 09:34.43 | Kueken | the targeting mode is set to unit target as well |
| 09:35.06 | Kueken | how can we determine if its supposed to be an instant cast, if we don't know it? |
| 09:36.20 | JademusSreg | I usually reused abilcmd and orders rather than reconstruct them. If the order worked on the original, it should work on doppleganger. |
| 09:36.37 | JademusSreg | Which is to say do not needlessly reconstruct orders. |
| 09:36.48 | Kueken | yeah |
| 09:37.00 | Kueken | it is the order the original receives |
| 09:37.10 | Kueken | if I issue it to the clone it doesn't work |
| 09:37.37 | JademusSreg | Effect Instant abilities are the only type that usually ever allows reusing orders, so just don't reconstruct it and it will be fine. |
| 09:38.02 | Kueken | ? |
| 09:38.15 | Kueken | without reconstructing, it doesn't work |
| 09:38.39 | JademusSreg | Show me the exact state of the code where it doesn't work. |
| 09:39.20 | JademusSreg | Also, brb |
| 09:39.30 | Kueken | http://pastebin.com/bfP63SUK |
| 09:39.45 | Kueken | the reconstruction commented out, throws the error |
| 09:51.24 | JademusSreg | Alright. So does unit IssueOrder work when the order is for void barrier? |
| 09:51.36 | JademusSreg | *UnitIssueOrder |
| 09:52.01 | Kueken | no |
| 09:52.17 | JademusSreg | Does it pop an error? |
| 09:52.22 | Kueken | yes |
| 09:52.58 | JademusSreg | And this assuming the code withthat line commented out, yes? |
| 09:53.03 | Kueken | further testing confirmed, that the detected order was detected as a unit target order with target being the caster |
| 09:53.05 | Kueken | yes |
| 09:53.35 | Kueken | while still being the VoidBarrier order, which should be instant and without a unit target |
| 09:53.55 | JademusSreg | looks at some effect data. |
| 09:55.21 | JademusSreg | What is the first effect in the effect tree? |
| 09:55.36 | Kueken | persistent, target set to caster unit |
| 09:55.54 | Kueken | *source unit |
| 09:55.55 | JademusSreg | And the rest of the effect tree? |
| 09:56.15 | Kueken | just an apply behavior, also to source unit |
| 09:56.30 | Kueken | I always use a persistent as first effect in the chain |
| 09:56.33 | JademusSreg | Set Target to None, test without reconstructing. |
| 09:57.06 | JademusSreg | For the persistent. |
| 09:57.25 | Kueken | ofc |
| 09:58.03 | Kueken | ability malfunction |
| 09:58.08 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 09:58.09 | Kueken | no effect executed |
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| 09:59.04 | JademusSreg | Despite the apply behavior referencing source unit? |
| 09:59.13 | Kueken | yep |
| 09:59.27 | JademusSreg | Did it throw an explicit error? |
| 09:59.29 | Kueken | the ability wouldn't even trigger the cooldown |
| 09:59.33 | Kueken | no |
| 10:00.33 | JademusSreg | Try setting the Apply Behavior Effect: Unit+ effect field to the persistent. |
| 10:01.14 | Kueken | while still maintaining none? |
| 10:01.27 | JademusSreg | Yeah. If it doesn't work, that leaves reconstructing the order as a unit target. |
| 10:01.31 | Kueken | for the persistent |
| 10:01.31 | JademusSreg | Which is easy to do. |
| 10:02.05 | Kueken | well, it is unit target and I need to reconstruct it as no target to be able to issue it |
| 10:02.23 | Kueken | and yes, it is easy, but how do we detect that it is needed? |
| 10:02.26 | JademusSreg | No worries, gave it a decent shot. |
| 10:02.39 | JademusSreg | c_orderTargetUnit ? |
| 10:02.44 | Kueken | besides from adding a list for all spell ids that require reconstruction |
| 10:03.06 | Kueken | well, that triggers for all standard unit target abilities as well |
| 10:03.25 | Kueken | which should not be reconstructed |
| 10:03.39 | JademusSreg | if id matches VoidBarrier then OrderTargetingUnit(abilcmd inAbilCmd, Doppleganger); |
| 10:04.07 | JademusSreg | Not a general case solution, but a good enough for now solution. |
| 10:04.24 | Kueken | well, the commented line is the working solution ;) |
| 10:05.33 | Kueken | the order you get from the trigger is target unit, but the order you actually need to issue is no target |
| 10:09.48 | JademusSreg | Goddamn API Fail. |
| 10:12.12 | Kueken | word |
| 10:12.47 | JademusSreg | It's relevant to a POC I have in mind, so I'll be dealing with this sooner or later. |
| 10:14.44 | Kueken | oh btw, I know I am probably one of the world's messiest coders :). Any general advice what I could improve on? |
| 10:15.24 | JademusSreg | A few things stand out especially. |
| 10:15.48 | JademusSreg | The first two are intimately related. |
| 10:17.11 | JademusSreg | 1) Semantically meaningful identifiers. With the exception of a single incrementer or math functions, identifiers should have semantically meaningful, descriptive content. |
| 10:17.58 | Kueken | so no unit u |
| 10:18.32 | JademusSreg | p or g might seem convenient, but what happens when you've got a portrait, a player, a playergroup and a unitgroup all in the same function? |
| 10:20.11 | JademusSreg | The most important above all other principles is that the code "makes sense" with as little time and effort as possible, which is to say it can be efficiently modeled mentally and you know how it should behave with a skim. |
| 10:21.16 | JademusSreg | This in turn is represented by the emphasis on readability, as readability is what most readily enables others and yourself to understand and maintain code. |
| 10:21.59 | JademusSreg | If you've ever looked at old code and thought how horrible it was or wondered what the hell it does, that's poor readability. |
| 10:24.29 | JademusSreg | By emphasizing semantically meaningful identifiers, and that applies to all identifiers, for variables, functions, et cetera, and making them descriptive and concise, you vastly improve readability and as a bonus you don't find yourself maintaining shitty comments. |
| 10:26.01 | JademusSreg | Comments are known to undergo "comment drift", where if production resources aren't spent maintaining them in tandem with the code, they drift ever further from the code they once described. |
| 10:27.36 | JademusSreg | 2) Keep it short. Following semantically meaningful identifiers, it makes sense to name a function as concisely, as narrowly, as possible. |
| 10:28.36 | JademusSreg | Anything that doesn't make sense in context of the name should be tucked away in a separate function call named more appropriately to its purpose. |
| 10:30.33 | JademusSreg | It's all about making the code's purpose as transparent as possible, and that usually means fewer lines per function. And still fewer lines. And still fewer until all the functions describe their purposes precisely and span only a few lines, between 1 and 3 inclusive an ideal target. |
| 10:32.13 | JademusSreg | Make sense so far? |
| 10:32.59 | Kueken | sort of |
| 10:33.56 | Kueken | if I call a new function every 3 lines, wouldn't that bloat the code massively? |
| 10:34.35 | JademusSreg | When you see a wall of code with a cryptic name like FireSpellFFXII, and no subroutines, no function calls out except to other terribly named libraries imported in bulk, you dread it, you know it will be a chore to read. |
| 10:34.48 | JademusSreg | I mean you'd define a new function. |
| 10:34.54 | JademusSreg | I'll demonstrate on your code. |
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| 10:39.30 | JademusSreg | 3) No magic numbers. |
| 10:40.22 | Kueken | always constants, never literals |
| 10:41.30 | JademusSreg | There are some exceptions, of ocurse. |
| 10:41.32 | JademusSreg | *course |
| 10:41.47 | JademusSreg | Would be absurd to see i+=INCREMENTER |
| 10:41.56 | Kueken | :) |
| 10:42.02 | JademusSreg | Except where you need to control the incrementing. |
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| 10:42.27 | Kubi-CELL | How about I increment your face by 1 |
| 10:42.44 | Kueken | damn, Batman, you found me |
| 10:45.37 | Kubi-CELL | Sc2mapster is looking kinda slim. |
| 10:45.48 | JademusSreg | Damn, can't be more thorough, gotta depart for a bit. I'll paste it, though. |
| 10:46.31 | JademusSreg | https://pastee.org/kjtty |
| 10:46.34 | JademusSreg | bbl |
| 10:47.18 | Kueken | thanks |
| 10:47.38 | JademusSreg | (Demonstrates the first point rather well, but not the second, so that'll need to wait.) |
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| 11:39.16 | Stewox | back |
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| 11:40.29 | gooose | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:41.35 | gooose | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:49.05 | gooose | ~ hatred |
| 11:49.05 | purl | somebody said hatred was a redhat worn backwards... |
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| 12:10.55 | gooose | can i make a search area effect execute on a random unit inside the area? |
| 12:20.46 | A1win | gaah, now this already starts to dro fps at ~70 projectiles :I too many planets I guess |
| 12:21.54 | gooose | ..... |
| 12:21.59 | gooose | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.11 | A1win | dunno |
| 12:22.24 | gooose | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.28 | gooose | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:23.02 | A1win | err... fps drops even with 2 planets at 70 projectiles |
| 12:23.42 | A1win | oh right because I do so much collision detection when projectiles are near planets |
| 12:26.02 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/SC2%202013-04-18%2015-25-10-77.jpg |
| 12:26.12 | A1win | haha |
| 12:26.14 | A1win | bad fps though |
| 12:28.47 | G0A | lol |
| 12:29.56 | gooose | goa do you know how to make a search area execute the effect on a random unit inside the area? |
| 12:30.15 | G0A | triggers? |
| 12:30.38 | gooose | i prefer data :) if that s possible |
| 12:32.57 | G0A | is there a flag or something for that in search area effect? |
| 12:33.46 | G0A | yeah there it is |
| 12:33.47 | G0A | FieldZurvan Latent Energy Search |
| 12:33.47 | G0A | Target: Target Sorts +0:0 |
| 12:34.05 | G0A | use target sorts to get random unit |
| 12:36.29 | G0A | Rofl if I rotate a copied terrain section than it gets always misplaced by half of a big box |
| 12:39.57 | gooose | ts random did the job ty |
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| 13:11.22 | A1win | ooooops, had it call "check collisions for each projectile" for each projectile >_> |
| 13:11.37 | A1win | instead of just once |
| 13:13.45 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/ph/SC2%202013-04-18%2016-12-47-53.jpg that's better fps ;p |
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| 14:04.07 | gooose | ok i got a problem: i m using a search effect that launches a missile that does damage |
| 14:04.14 | gooose | both have the same target filters |
| 14:04.55 | gooose | i m reviving a unit when it dies make it invulnerable etc, but it still takes damage from the missiles that are mid air |
| 14:05.09 | gooose | but the effect stops launching missiles at it |
| 14:06.28 | gooose | i dont want it do deal damage to the revived target (which is invulnerable) and i dont understand why it does |
| 14:07.08 | gooose | invulnerable is excluded in the search and damage effect |
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| 14:22.17 | gooose | ANY help? |
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| 14:34.08 | twodie | with what? |
| 14:35.28 | gooose | i m using a search effect that launches a missile that does damage; both have the same target filters; i m reviving a unit when it dies make it invulnerable etc, but it still takes damage from the missiles that are mid air; but the effect stops launching missiles at it |
| 14:36.20 | gooose | i m using a workaround right now giving the unit 2000 liferegeneration and a damage response with fraction 0 |
| 14:40.56 | twodie | so your problem is that the unit after killing it and missle still makes damage to unit to kill it for sure and reviving even doesnt work? |
| 14:42.04 | twodie | if that case you should add filter in Effect Damge to exclude the invulnarble targets? |
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| 14:44.43 | twodie | hey look |
| 14:44.53 | twodie | JademusSreg is back! |
| 14:45.02 | twodie | <gooose> i m using a search effect that launches a missile that does damage; both have the same target filters; i m reviving a unit when it dies make it invulnerable etc, but it still takes damage from the missiles that are mid air; but the effect stops launching missiles at it |
| 14:45.07 | twodie | <gooose> i m using a workaround right now giving the unit 2000 liferegeneration and a damage response with fraction 0 |
| 14:47.52 | gooose | i did exclude invul |
| 14:48.15 | gooose | [16:07] <gooose> invulnerable is excluded in the search and damage effect |
| 14:49.09 | twodie | gooose so does it really is the problem that i mentioned? |
| 14:49.12 | gooose | and it doesnt make sense with both using the same filters |
| 14:50.23 | gooose | well reviving does work the unit is invulnerable the periodic effect stops launching missiles at it but the missiles that were midair when the unit died still deal damage to it |
| 14:50.44 | gooose | which doesnt make ANY sense with both effects using the same filters |
| 15:02.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-33.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 15:28.54 | twodie | niggggggggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaz |
| 15:30.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cardanis (80bb6117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.187.97.23) |
| 15:31.22 | Cardanis | Anyone know how to validate if an upgrade has been purchased? I need to use the upgrade to remove a behavior |
| 15:34.38 | G0A | Biaaaaaaaaaatcheeeeeeeees! |
| 15:35.00 | G0A | whats up with Ducky? didnt see him since a long time |
| 15:36.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ownage (~proprieta@cpe-98-154-98-104.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 15:42.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster proprietarysucks (~proprieta@cpe-98-154-98-104.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 16:05.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin|Work (~Dustin@64.39.213.168) |
| 16:10.25 | Eagles_ | Look at my cool-ass UNIT GLOW, YEAH |
| 16:10.28 | Eagles_ | http://puu.sh/2Cqxd/35c4eda504.jpg |
| 16:11.45 | twodie | FUCK YEAH! |
| 16:11.48 | twodie | THOSE BALLS |
| 16:13.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster sharf (~sharf@stu-221-149-171-184.champlain.edu) |
| 16:31.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-33.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 16:45.51 | G0A | is their way to kick a player from the game instead of just defeat? |
| 17:06.48 | Dustin|Work | nope |
| 17:15.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~qqqq@dslb-092-073-220-253.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:15.29 | twodie | crash the game |
| 17:23.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cardanis (80bb6117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.187.97.23) |
| 17:25.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster SaVi (54a3d683@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.163.214.131) |
| 17:41.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-046-005-157-052.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:43.32 | SaVi | Is it possible that there are only 2 Sky Boxes who are really changing the background?! |
| 17:47.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Stranger (~whois@76-10-147-157.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 17:50.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster tordy (6c37dc98@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.55.220.152) |
| 17:54.11 | Cardanis | . . . ? |
| 17:54.13 | G0A | SaVi no |
| 17:54.23 | tordy | hello dudes and dudettes |
| 17:54.27 | Cardanis | Can I not remove a behavior that's disabled by a requirement? |
| 17:54.29 | G0A | there are 5 skyboxes that changes most the ground area |
| 17:54.45 | G0A | plus 2-3 in hots |
| 17:56.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-33.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 17:59.25 | SaVi | mhh I put everyone into the cinematic-editor and the most had no model. I didnt add the WOL data so maybe the other workings ones are there :/ |
| 18:00.09 | Ahli | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaTq_DrqXw |
| 18:02.56 | SaVi | Ahli, wow^^ |
| 18:04.53 | G0A | Gay hots music:D |
| 18:15.56 | SaVi | Is it possible to rotate the "Shakuras Gate" Doodad, to make it staying there so you can walk through instead of laying on the ground? |
| 18:16.43 | Cardanis | So I've got a marine like weapon that applies a 3 second debuff to enemy units. I want my marine to keep cycling targets to try and cover all enemies with this debuff, rather than focussing and killing one. What would I use to do this? |
| 18:19.47 | Eagles_ | Can I somehow add a new field to a catalog via Trigger? As I am trying to use Catalog Set on the AbilArray, it retuns "a required object could not be found" because the array index doesn't exist. |
| 18:21.53 | Eagles_ | Actually nevermind, I just tried with index 0 and it doesn't seem like we have access to add abilities on the fly. |
| 18:25.06 | SaVi | Cardanis, you could make a Autocast-Ability with a search effect which checks if the target has already the Buff with a validator or something like that^^ |
| 18:25.41 | Cardanis | SaVi: Won't that require me to make it a not-weapon? |
| 18:25.42 | SaVi | But im not that good with the data-editor so there is surely a better solution than that..^^ |
| 18:26.20 | SaVi | Ye it wouldn't be a weapon anymore |
| 18:38.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-219-158.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:38.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 19:06.51 | JademusSreg | Zoop. |
| 19:07.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@brsg-d9bee5b3.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:07.46 | JademusSreg | Yeah, can't add abilities via catalog. |
| 19:07.54 | Kueken | Good morning, gentlewomen |
| 19:09.24 | JademusSreg | Kueken, I remembered that one of the few orders that can be reused is Stop, not Effect - Instant orders. Had been awake for 40+ hours, so it slipped my mind. |
| 19:10.14 | Kueken | :D |
| 19:10.16 | JademusSreg | Probably Behavior ability orders, as well. |
| 19:10.27 | Kueken | yes, stop, hold position work |
| 19:10.40 | Kueken | but effect-instant seems problematic |
| 19:14.52 | Kueken | btw for the adding of abilities via catalog, you can add some blank effect-target and effect-instant abilities to the unit and edit their initial effects via catalog, can also adjust tooltips, buttons, cooldowns, energy costs etc, I believe |
| 19:15.48 | JademusSreg | Yes, and catalog API allows changing "links". |
| 19:16.54 | JademusSreg | Which I expect motive could explain, as I've not used that feature, and Cortex engine may make use of it, iirc. |
| 19:17.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster sharf (~sharf@stu-221-149-171-184.champlain.edu) |
| 19:19.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster twodie_ (4e3c1a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.60.26.40) |
| 19:24.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster mille25 (5b050c09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.5.12.9) |
| 19:24.33 | mille25 | hi |
| 19:24.39 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 19:27.06 | twodie_ | hiiiiiiiiiiiiigh |
| 19:27.27 | JademusSreg | I bet you are, you rascal. |
| 19:27.55 | Kueken | shark |
| 19:28.22 | A1win | gaaah can't figure out why my collision detection isn't working but I can add a check after it that makes it work x.x |
| 19:28.41 | JademusSreg | A1, is this venting or do you need help? |
| 19:28.43 | A1win | for some reason the ships are colliding with each other after they have already bounced away from each other on the next frame |
| 19:28.48 | A1win | dunno :P |
| 19:28.50 | A1win | I'll leave it for now |
| 19:28.54 | A1win | been trying to fix it for hours |
| 19:31.08 | twodie_ | what? WHAT? |
| 19:31.12 | twodie_ | the what? |
| 19:31.30 | JademusSreg | Guess that makes you threedie? |
| 19:31.35 | A1win | fuu ;D now you can knock other players inside planets by sitting on them while they're landed |
| 19:32.17 | DIEDIEDIE | it sure is that case yes i think yeah |
| 19:32.42 | Kueken | DIE³ |
| 19:32.57 | JademusSreg | Nicely done. |
| 19:33.16 | Kueken | but mathematically incorrect |
| 19:33.19 | JademusSreg | I guess that's the name of the next Cube sequel? |
| 19:33.32 | Kueken | D³I³E³ |
| 19:33.37 | Kueken | or (DIE)³ |
| 19:34.03 | Kueken | nah, its Die Hard |
| 19:34.08 | A1win | unless DIE is a variable name |
| 19:34.18 | JademusSreg | The intent was clear, no need to worry about syntax in chat. The universe probably won't throw a compile error. |
| 19:34.30 | G0A | US House of Representatives passes CISPA 288-to-127 Rofl |
| 19:34.32 | Kueken | too bad, actually |
| 19:34.57 | Kueken | universe compile errors would make a ton of stuff easier :D |
| 19:35.09 | Kueken | universe autocompletion would be nice |
| 19:35.24 | Kueken | like you start first stone of a hhouse, bam, its there |
| 19:35.26 | Kueken | -h |
| 19:35.40 | JademusSreg | It already has it, but its autocomplete feature is extradimensional. |
| 19:35.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-219-158.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:37.12 | A1win | eugh, I should probably just not have ship-to-ship collisions and just make them push each other away |
| 19:37.20 | A1win | this is quite difficult to solve in a reasonable way ;p |
| 19:37.48 | A1win | like when ships are sitting on planets, you could "sit" on them and cause all kinds of problems |
| 19:38.59 | JademusSreg | Sounds fun, |
| 19:42.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster tordy (6c37dc98@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.55.220.152) |
| 19:44.46 | tordy | good afternoon |
| 19:44.52 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 19:45.34 | DIEDIEDIE | hey you! |
| 19:55.51 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@91.83.181.226.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 20:00.07 | DIEDIEDIE | http://spartan.msgamestudios.com/content/spartan/website/site_content/images/nean5_1x400.jpg |
| 20:01.37 | Dustin|Work | No |
| 20:25.14 | JademusSreg | Oh, who where did the test involving unit actor hiding impact on FPS? |
| 20:25.19 | JademusSreg | *who here |
| 20:25.34 | Dustin|Work | No idea |
| 20:26.05 | JademusSreg | I may be fabricating the memory, but I recall such a test was done. |
| 20:29.10 | Kueken | I tested units displayed vs hidden units, but I don't think I tested the impact on fps for hiding the actors |
| 20:29.47 | JademusSreg | What were the results of the test, Kueken? |
| 20:30.21 | Kueken | I mainly tested how many units the engine could handle, if we disregard visuals |
| 20:30.33 | Kueken | I think it capped at about 16k |
| 20:30.55 | Kueken | with fps taking a serious hit beyond ~8-10k |
| 20:31.11 | Kueken | depends on machine most likely |
| 20:31.38 | Kueken | same with actors show, highly depends on used model |
| 20:31.43 | Eagles_ | How can I make Bel'shir terrain have some kind of skybox like space? |
| 20:31.50 | Kueken | 2k marine models was pretty much unplayable |
| 20:32.13 | Kueken | while 2k spheres were basically lagfree |
| 20:32.38 | Kueken | this is only for actors being visible onscreen |
| 20:32.55 | Kueken | offscreen it matches the results from hidden actors |
| 20:33.14 | Kueken | does this answer your question? |
| 20:34.27 | JademusSreg | A bit verbose, but if I understand correctly, Hidden units / not visible actors supports ~8 times as many units? |
| 20:35.10 | Kueken | From my understanding, they are hardly related |
| 20:35.53 | Kueken | the one depending on how much your graphics card can handle, the other mor eof an engine limt or maybe cpu? |
| 20:36.14 | Kueken | but that would need tests on other machines to confirm |
| 20:37.00 | Kueken | also, the 16k limit is a hard limit |
| 20:37.24 | Kueken | it won't let you spawn any more units beyond 16,384 |
| 20:38.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Reaperguyver (43517711@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.81.119.17) |
| 20:38.18 | JademusSreg | I misunderstood your report, haha. If you've got the map on hand, I'd like to test it, perhaps add on to it. |
| 20:38.59 | Kueken | I will see if I find it |
| 20:39.32 | Kueken | but its essentially a loop creating a ton of units, nothing you cannot do yourself in a minute |
| 20:40.42 | JademusSreg | No worries, I'll recode as needed. |
| 20:45.03 | Kueken | oh, I never ran it with debug window open |
| 20:45.14 | Kueken | it even says Warinig: Uint limit reached |
| 20:45.18 | Kueken | *warning |
| 20:45.20 | JademusSreg | It's part of research into a proof-of-concept I'm working on. |
| 20:45.21 | Kueken | *unit |
| 20:45.45 | Dustin|Work | Are you gonna have not on camera objects hidden to make less lag? |
| 20:46.18 | Kueken | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/vydk3hurg0tqofs/unit%20test.SC2Map |
| 20:46.32 | Kueken | galaxy++ was used, so code is even more messy |
| 20:46.57 | Kueken | disable the "no draw" flag for the test unit to make it show up |
| 20:47.03 | Kueken | space spawns 1k units |
| 20:47.12 | JademusSreg | Dustin, naw, that's not interesting. |
| 20:47.16 | Kueken | but you will redo the script anyway, I assume |
| 20:47.21 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 20:47.36 | Dustin|Work | Then what are you doing :P |
| 20:48.14 | JademusSreg | Most likely I'll run it through data instead, or use the debug commands + console commands. |
| 20:48.38 | JademusSreg | In short, I'm working on a POC involving unit aggregation. |
| 20:49.51 | JademusSreg | Which has numerous potential applications. |
| 20:50.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cardanis (80bb6117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.187.97.23) |
| 20:51.22 | JademusSreg | The POC results should also help me decide on which idea I'd like to prototype. |
| 20:52.17 | Reaperguyver | How have you guys been doing? |
| 20:52.41 | JademusSreg | All night long. |
| 20:59.09 | JademusSreg | Yeah, makeunit command will be useful here. |
| 21:07.11 | Kueken | I didn't know it back then ;) |
| 21:07.20 | Kueken | might not even have existed |
| 21:12.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ashamed (8d00093d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.0.9.61) |
| 21:12.19 | Ashamed | hey |
| 21:12.29 | Dustin|Work | Hi |
| 21:13.24 | JademusSreg | Hi thar Ash. |
| 21:20.36 | Cardanis | I can have an ability create units in another units cargo space, right? |
| 21:20.44 | JademusSreg | Probably. |
| 21:21.42 | Cardanis | I'm trying to do a calldown ability like the mule, except I want the dropod to stay as a structure, and have the units loaded in it |
| 21:21.57 | Cardanis | I'm building it off of the nydus worm ability, and going from there |
| 21:22.18 | JademusSreg | So you want it to arrive preloaded, yeah? |
| 21:23.36 | Cardanis | pretty much |
| 21:23.57 | Cardanis | (Right now I'm just looking at what actors I'd use to get it to work . . . oh gosh lol) |
| 21:26.07 | JademusSreg | So DoW-style Imperium Space Marine droppods? |
| 21:26.19 | Cardanis | yeup |
| 21:26.20 | Cardanis | except |
| 21:26.22 | Cardanis | they stick around |
| 21:26.31 | Cardanis | as buildings |
| 21:26.46 | Cardanis | so in essence, a nydus worm that's pre-loaded and has its own cargo |
| 21:26.54 | Cardanis | but uses the drop pod model and animations |
| 21:27.08 | JademusSreg | There's a popular DoW1 mod that did exactly that. |
| 21:28.10 | Cardanis | really? that's pretty cool |
| 21:30.57 | JademusSreg | Seems like you'd use an Arm Magazine ability for the initial stocking. |
| 21:32.04 | Cardanis | So they'd be kept in a magazine, instead of a cargo? |
| 21:32.18 | Cardanis | That actually kinda makes more sense, it'll stop people from loading back into the pods |
| 21:36.25 | JademusSreg | These values will be of use: Flags AutoCreate and Transient, Max Count to set the capacity, InfoArray for the units and Info flags AutoBuild, CountStart, and External to automatically deploy, Manage set to None definitely. |
| 21:37.02 | JademusSreg | Since Recall causes the magazine units to die if the source is killed. |
| 21:37.47 | Ashamed | www.minepocket.com :) there you guys go |
| 21:38.33 | JademusSreg | Alternately, if you want the player to configure the content of the droppod before release, you'd just add some buttons for various production options. |
| 21:38.40 | JademusSreg | Ash, no u. |
| 21:38.43 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 21:41.28 | Cardanis | Ya, that makes sense |
| 21:41.34 | Cardanis | I was wondering what the best type of actor would be? |
| 21:41.41 | JademusSreg | For what? |
| 21:41.47 | Cardanis | I'm looking at how other building actors work, and the "Building Actor" type is throwing me off |
| 21:41.59 | Cardanis | well, I'm using a build ability like the nydus worm to make it |
| 21:42.08 | JademusSreg | Thinking about it from the wrong end, Card. |
| 21:42.40 | Cardanis | ? |
| 21:42.57 | JademusSreg | Use the source filter pulldown beside the Search filter field and set it to Core.SC2Mod |
| 21:43.36 | Cardanis | k |
| 21:43.51 | JademusSreg | Resize the columns so you see Actor Type, ignore parent for the moment. |
| 21:44.07 | Cardanis | got that already |
| 21:44.09 | JademusSreg | Click the Actor Type header to sort them. |
| 21:44.17 | Cardanis | (Should I only ever be using actor types from the core mod?) |
| 21:44.29 | JademusSreg | Naw, this is merely instructive. |
| 21:44.41 | Cardanis | kk |
| 21:45.04 | JademusSreg | Note there is no Building actor type. |
| 21:45.45 | Cardanis | ya |
| 21:45.50 | JademusSreg | Structures are units, so you'd be using a Unit actor, regardless. It's a question of which properties best suit your purposes. |
| 21:45.52 | Ashamed | jade i can't believe your sc2 modding still |
| 21:45.58 | Cardanis | just unit |
| 21:46.04 | JademusSreg | I do, from time to time, Ash. |
| 21:46.13 | Ashamed | ;) i have one of the most viewed threads on minecraft forums :P I rock curse.. but not sc2 ha |
| 21:46.32 | JademusSreg | Congrats, Ash. Why is that? |
| 21:46.41 | Ashamed | cuz of my awesome servers |
| 21:46.54 | Cardanis | So I should use just a simple unit actor, and code the events accordingly? |
| 21:47.11 | JademusSreg | Card, you should find the best fit for your purposes. |
| 21:47.18 | JademusSreg | Does the droppod do anything? |
| 21:47.45 | JademusSreg | Besides take up space? Does it take commands from the player? Does it even need to be selectable? |
| 21:48.52 | JademusSreg | You design the experience first, and once you know how the user interacts with it, you know the technical properties it requires. |
| 21:49.10 | JademusSreg | Ash, which servers? |
| 21:50.10 | Cardanis | That's a good point, thanks |
| 21:50.34 | Cardanis | Is there a resource where I can read about the different actor points and their purposes? |
| 21:50.58 | JademusSreg | Probably some outdated stuff on mapster. |
| 21:51.21 | Cardanis | kk |
| 21:52.07 | Ashamed | minepocket.com |
| 21:52.13 | Ashamed | that website |
| 21:52.15 | Ashamed | pretty much the first real dedicated servers for phones :) |
| 21:52.27 | Ashamed | even before mojang |
| 21:52.29 | Ashamed | there are a few others doing it as well |
| 21:52.39 | Ashamed | as we actually understand code:P |
| 21:52.42 | Ashamed | but nothing compared to our qaulity |
| 21:52.43 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:53.07 | Ashamed | We are the first for sure to do sql syncs |
| 21:53.24 | Ashamed | then you can play :) |
| 21:53.27 | Ashamed | all authentecation done website end |
| 21:54.40 | Ashamed | see it start from nothing |
| 21:54.47 | Ashamed | one of the biggest names for minecraft pe now... its been fun doing it all ha |
| 21:54.55 | JademusSreg | The (deobfuscated, reversed) code for Minecraft is dreadful. I will never cease to be horrified that Slime spawn rate restriction is in the chunk provider area of code. |
| 21:55.22 | Ashamed | well pe is much differnt |
| 21:55.30 | Ashamed | not as roburst |
| 21:55.57 | Ashamed | http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum/237-mcpe-servers/ |
| 21:55.58 | Ashamed | almost 15,000 views on curses network |
| 21:55.58 | Ashamed | ha |
| 21:56.33 | Ashamed | thats better |
| 21:56.39 | Ashamed | http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1637931-minecraft-pe-server-dedicated-pc-server-247-chat-tp-custom-anti-grief-plugins-15-minute-backups/ |
| 21:58.02 | Ashamed | but hopfully it can make me some side revanue :P |
| 21:58.18 | Ashamed | traffic should be able to bring me 300+ a month already |
| 21:58.25 | JademusSreg | Congrats, either way. I'd be more enthused if minecraft was enjoyable at the basic mechanics level, but success in any endeavour is worth celebrating. =D |
| 21:59.10 | Ashamed | nor do i really play it now |
| 21:59.13 | Ashamed | yeah i never even played it before this jade |
| 22:11.23 | JademusSreg | Minecraft is a lovely proof of concept, it's just not enjoyable to play. No amount of playing will compare to my first extended session, spawning in the ocean, deep underwater, swimming along in frail hope of finding some barren bit of land to rest on, hungry and weak and alone in a desolate inhospitable expanse. The first tree discovered, used to make a boat and eat an apple, then coasting |
| 22:11.23 | JademusSreg | along the seemingly infinite ocean, starving and on the verge of death, and in the tinny tune played alongside the setting sun and through to the dark rain-swept storms, I felt at peace, that its microcosm framed perfectly a metaphor for mortality, and in ultimately futile journey stirred a deep calm of twilight reflection. |
| 22:13.03 | Cardanis | quite poetic, lol |
| 22:14.58 | Cardanis | to me Minecraft was less of a game |
| 22:15.02 | Cardanis | and more of a creative outlet |
| 22:15.24 | JademusSreg | The two are not mutually exclusive, but I understand your intent. |
| 22:15.25 | Cardanis | A free, open engine that I could just build whatever with, and do it with friends as well |
| 22:15.48 | Cardanis | Ya, I don't have quite a grasp on explaining myself as well as you do lol |
| 22:18.18 | A1win | odd, now the ship collisions suddenly started working |
| 22:19.59 | A1win | I did something, just no idea what fixed it ;p |
| 22:20.11 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 22:27.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cardanis (80bb6117@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.187.97.23) |
| 22:49.01 | A1win | yay now it seems to work pretty well |
| 22:49.33 | JademusSreg | =D |
| 22:51.36 | A1win | and now I broke something else x__x |
| 23:00.58 | Cardanis | Can I not use an effect to remove a disabled behavior? |
| 23:01.08 | Cardanis | I've got a behavior on a unit that's disabled by a requirement |
| 23:01.19 | Cardanis | I use an ability that should remove that behavior |
| 23:01.24 | Cardanis | and then I gain the requirement |
| 23:01.28 | Cardanis | and the behavior turns back on |
| 23:01.47 | JademusSreg | Why remove it? |
| 23:03.26 | Cardanis | Because the way things are set up now it'd be easier than adding to the requirements that disable it |
| 23:03.42 | Cardanis | basically, I've got several different variants of a marine gun |
| 23:03.47 | Stewox | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:03.55 | JademusSreg | Sense is not being made. |
| 23:04.06 | Cardanis | and you can research one of them |
| 23:04.16 | Cardanis | so all the weapons are given by a behavior |
| 23:04.25 | Cardanis | and the unit starts with all the behaviors |
| 23:04.27 | JademusSreg | As per the Specialize ability? |
| 23:04.46 | Cardanis | but they're all disabled except the standard weapon |
| 23:05.02 | JademusSreg | I do hope you're using the Specialize ability class for these behaviors, as it's an ideal fit for DoW-style specs. |
| 23:05.10 | Cardanis | you research one of the upgrades, which disables the standard, and un-disables the specialized one |
| 23:05.15 | Cardanis | Specialize? <(0_o)> |
| 23:05.47 | Cardanis | (I really should research more before I jump in, I read Dr. Super Evils post on weapon swapping, and went with that) |
| 23:05.50 | JademusSreg | Yes. The Specialize ability class uses the production queue approach to adding behaviors, charges, and effects on units. |
| 23:06.10 | JademusSreg | Which is to say, it's exaqctly like DoW specialization. |
| 23:06.14 | JademusSreg | *exactly |
| 23:06.55 | Cardanis | Hmmm, I've just been using effect-instant |
| 23:07.35 | JademusSreg | Also, the Behavior ability class is better suited to toggling or applying behaviors. |
| 23:08.10 | JademusSreg | It's employed for Ghost cloaking and overgoon creep generation, for examples. |
| 23:08.11 | Cardanis | Ya, I just use an effect-instant which uses effects to apply/remove the various behaviors that give the weapons i want |
| 23:08.27 | Cardanis | Oh, hmm |
| 23:08.28 | JademusSreg | The behaviors can do that themselves with EFfect Initial. |
| 23:09.55 | JademusSreg | So are you doing DoW style specialization, weapon-switching, or a combination of the two? |
| 23:10.29 | JademusSreg | By which I mean you specialize to get the weapon, then can toggle switch to it as needed. |
| 23:10.46 | Cardanis | It's specialization, but it's an upgrade, so you no longer have your original weapon |
| 23:10.49 | Cardanis | it's like a wepon upgrade |
| 23:10.53 | Cardanis | irriversible |
| 23:11.25 | JademusSreg | Is that the current implementation or is that how you want it to work by design? |
| 23:11.57 | Cardanis | Current implementation |
| 23:12.02 | Cardanis | It works perfectly fine |
| 23:12.12 | JademusSreg | Because unless you want it to be global, there's no good reason to use Upgrade over Specialization./ |
| 23:12.18 | Cardanis | except when combined with a different style of specialization |
| 23:12.23 | Cardanis | ya, I've got one unit |
| 23:12.36 | Cardanis | who's weapon swap IS global |
| 23:13.03 | Cardanis | and that's where the problem is occuring, on a unit that has a) The base weapon can be swapped due to a global upgrade, and b) Upgrading to replace the base weapon, whether it's upgraded or not |
| 23:13.44 | JademusSreg | Yeah, but still no reason for it to be global, neither by technical limitation or by mechanics. So specialize ability class works best here. |
| 23:15.16 | Cardanis | Well I want the base weapon to be a research upgrade at a building, and it applies to all of my units of that type, already made or not, whereas the upgrading to different weapons is on a unit by unit basis |
| 23:15.24 | JademusSreg | Ah. |
| 23:15.42 | JademusSreg | So upgrades, specialize, and behavior toggle. |
| 23:15.46 | JademusSreg | Sounds easy enough. |
| 23:15.48 | Cardanis | yup |
| 23:16.09 | Cardanis | So I've got a different weapon for each different possibility of the base weapon |
| 23:16.19 | Cardanis | and a different weapon for each possible upgrade weapon |
| 23:16.33 | Cardanis | and I've been controlling which weapon the unit has with behaviors |
| 23:16.42 | Cardanis | one behavior for each weapon, giving that weapon |
| 23:17.04 | Cardanis | and then using an ability that removes the weapon you're coming FROM, and applies the one you're upgrading to |
| 23:17.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 23:17.38 | Cardanis | Since the base weapon version is decided by a global upgrade, I have the unit start with all versions of the behavior, and have that disabled by requirements based on the upgrade |
| 23:17.47 | JademusSreg | Double the pleasure, double the pun, double the behaviors. One behavior to indicate access and another for state. |
| 23:18.10 | Cardanis | and then if you upgrade from there, at the unit itself, to a different weapon, it removes all the behaviors for the base weapon, and adds the behavior for the new weapon |
| 23:18.16 | JademusSreg | ICanHazGaussCannon and IHazGaussCannon. |
| 23:18.24 | Cardanis | the problem is, it doesn't remove the disabled behaviors for the base weapon |
| 23:18.28 | Cardanis | so if i upgrade to a different weapon |
| 23:18.34 | Cardanis | and then upgrade my global base weapon |
| 23:18.40 | Cardanis | i have both the new base weapon, and the upgraded weapon |
| 23:19.12 | JademusSreg | Btw, weapons can be added and removed at runtime. |
| 23:19.29 | Cardanis | ? |
| 23:21.05 | JademusSreg | Buff behavior : Modification : Weapon: Weapons+ |
| 23:21.17 | JademusSreg | You're using this field, yes? |
| 23:21.25 | Cardanis | Oh, ya, that's what I'm doing lol, that's what i have all the behaviors doing |
| 23:23.52 | JademusSreg | Alright, so ICanHazGaussCannon is checked by the requirement for a Behavior ability IPewzGaussCannon which toggles the state of the behavior IHazGaussCannon, and IHazGaussCannon adds the weapon GaussCannon. |
| 23:24.25 | JademusSreg | 2 behaviors, 1 ability, 1 requirement. |
| 23:26.39 | Cardanis | yup |
| 23:27.02 | Cardanis | IPewzGaussCannon also removes IHasStick |
| 23:27.14 | Cardanis | So that the unit no longer has that old weapon |
| 23:27.17 | JademusSreg | -And- the behavior IHazGaussCannon uses the Effect: Initial Effect field to remove the other weapon state behaviors, Set effect > Remove Ability effect, and removes the other IHaz's. |
| 23:28.02 | JademusSreg | But, in case it wasn't clear, not the ICanHaz's. |
| 23:28.03 | Cardanis | ya |
| 23:28.27 | Cardanis | actually. . . hold on. I'ma read that over again |
| 23:30.00 | Cardanis | hmmm, I'll throw that in and see what happens |
| 23:30.37 | JademusSreg | Perhaps you should describe what implementation you think I mean. =D |
| 23:36.46 | Cardanis | I'm confused <(T_T)> |
| 23:36.55 | Cardanis | lol, gimme a sec to think this through |
| 23:37.32 | Cardanis | Okay, so basic weapon is a stick. We'll say that |
| 23:37.45 | Cardanis | So the unit starts with a behavior called HasStick, which gives him the stick |
| 23:37.53 | JademusSreg | Wrong |
| 23:37.58 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 23:38.13 | Cardanis | blast. I started explaining how I currently have it :P |
| 23:38.16 | JademusSreg | Pardon, I was thinking theatrically. |
| 23:38.24 | JademusSreg | Rather like Objection!. |
| 23:38.31 | Cardanis | oh, lol |
| 23:38.48 | JademusSreg | ICanHaz is permanent; it's what signals the option is available and it will never be removed unless the unit's weapon is stolen or something. |
| 23:39.02 | JademusSreg | By itself, it does nothing. |
| 23:39.19 | JademusSreg | IHaz adds the weapon. |
| 23:39.20 | Cardanis | hmmm, okay |
| 23:39.35 | JademusSreg | ICanHaz is checked for by requirements. |
| 23:40.00 | Kueken | I cannot initialize struct members directly? |
| 23:40.21 | Cardanis | Okay |
| 23:40.22 | JademusSreg | Such as a Behavior class ability (stop using that Effect - Instant, I see you doing it, magically). |
| 23:40.35 | A1win | anyone up for some collision testing? D: |
| 23:40.55 | JademusSreg | The Behavior ability is used to toggle the IHaz, and the ability has the requirement checking for ICanHaz. |
| 23:40.57 | JademusSreg | Got it? |
| 23:41.06 | JademusSreg | A1, sure, gimme a few minutes and I'm in. |
| 23:41.07 | Kueken | struct foo{int bar=1;}; doesn't work, while struct foo{int bar;}; |
| 23:41.08 | Kueken | does |
| 23:41.19 | JademusSreg | Kueken, yes, galaxy is silly. |
| 23:41.22 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 23:43.08 | Cardanis | What's the real benefit of using the Behavior Ability? Isn't it essentially an effect-instant that only adds and removes behaviors? |
| 23:43.38 | Kueken | you can easily use different buttons for toggle on and off |
| 23:44.41 | Cardanis | KK, but that's not really needed here since this is a one-way thing |
| 23:46.02 | Cardanis | Hmm, Jade I don't think I'm getting your idea (Or that I explained what I'm trying well enough for it to make sense), but the talking has definitely pointed me in the right direction to get this to work |
| 23:47.33 | Kueken | :D |
| 23:47.37 | Kueken | I know the feeling |
| 23:47.45 | Kueken | Jade usually has that effect |
| 23:48.15 | Cardanis | hahaha |
| 23:48.18 | Cardanis | you guys are great =P |
| 23:48.34 | Cardanis | it definitely helps a lot knowing about this chat |
| 23:48.51 | Cardanis | i started on this map over a year ago, and gave up in 2 weeks because I had far too many questions to be posting all over the forums |
| 23:51.50 | JademusSreg | A1, ready. |
| 23:51.55 | JademusSreg | EU region, yeah? |
| 23:51.57 | A1win | yeah |
| 23:52.29 | A1win | this time I picked a placeholder name that I simply can't keep once it's published |
| 23:52.32 | A1win | :P |
| 23:52.53 | JademusSreg | Also, Behavior saves you the trouble of an effect to apply the behavior, the order is simpler (nudgenudge Kueken), and it can be one way. |
| 23:53.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Taintedwisp (4bb55b32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.181.91.50) |
| 23:53.49 | Cardanis | Ya, making all those effects is rather tedious |
| 23:54.39 | Taintedwisp | you look bombed out and depleted cardanis |
| 23:56.23 | Cardanis | Taintedwisp: how so? lol |
| 23:56.29 | Taintedwisp | i dunno |
| 23:56.30 | Taintedwisp | lawl |
| 23:57.05 | Kueken | btw Jade, I ended up making the shield increase max shield, and adjust max shields whenever damage is taken to circumvent any issues with regeneration |
| 23:57.33 | Kueken | the issue with shield armor vs life armor persists, but thats insignificant |
| 23:57.36 | Cardanis | hahaha, well I've been doing nothing but working on this map for the past three days, I'm maybe . . . 60-70% done with the first race? Not including most of the graphical stuff I want to do like model additions and proper launch/impact effects |
| 23:57.44 | Cardanis | and ya, I'm feeling a little drained, but heck, this is fun |
| 23:59.14 | Taintedwisp | what kind of map you working on? |
| 23:59.56 | Cardanis | It's a remake of a 40k style map I made back in Starcraft 1 |
