| 00:01.52 | Dustin | Hmm |
| 00:02.42 | A1win | hehe some time ago when I was thinking about a map where players operate a blattlecruiser inside it, you'd have like a few minutes of actionpacked gameplay, then a cutscene where the SC2-sized BC fires one of its lasers on something, and then the gameplay continues |
| 00:03.14 | tordy | if you say bommes bommes bommes ... as fast as you can, it sounds like a sweet beat |
| 00:06.55 | Ahli | dota2 has an UI I dislike :S while targeting spells, the range isn't displayed (requires config command). Shop UI has no categories for stats, it is grouped for classes instead -.- |
| 00:08.50 | Bommes | Hmm, but you can't really group the items by stats imo |
| 00:09.07 | Bommes | but yeah, its a common problem from MOBAs imo that getting to know all the items is always a pain |
| 00:09.16 | Bommes | so there are very few people who switch from lol to dota or vice versa |
| 00:09.34 | Ahli | well, these are the aspects LoL does much better than dota2 |
| 00:09.36 | Bommes | or in general getting into them |
| 00:09.40 | Bommes | you think? |
| 00:09.54 | Ahli | I only know LoL, but from a design stand point for noobs like me, yes |
| 00:09.56 | Bommes | i played only like 5 games of lol or something, I didn't understand at all how items are sorted |
| 00:10.07 | Bommes | and which items are good for which hero |
| 00:10.22 | Ahli | in lol you got groups for stats... then you can see the items that for example raise movement speed |
| 00:11.05 | Bommes | But do I want to know that as a newbie? |
| 00:11.11 | Bommes | because I don't know if movement speed is good for my hero |
| 00:11.16 | Bommes | or if I should go for other items |
| 00:11.37 | Ahli | there are the recommendet items as good choices for newbees |
| 00:11.45 | Ahli | dota has the same |
| 00:11.48 | zlefin | yeah, dota2 ui is a bit weak, wasn't upgraded so much |
| 00:11.55 | Ahli | even better than lol |
| 00:11.58 | Ahli | I guess |
| 00:12.07 | zlefin | well, they also keep changing both fo them every year or two |
| 00:12.09 | zlefin | hard to keep up :P |
| 00:12.41 | Bommes | I don't know, the dota 2 shop system in general is really confusing for new players |
| 00:12.46 | Bommes | because there are 3 different kinds of shops |
| 00:13.00 | Bommes | with 1 having items that no other shop has and the 2 other ones having overlapping items |
| 00:13.03 | zlefin | i have little experience with assessing how new players find it; but it's certainly a very important thing |
| 00:13.13 | Bommes | or well all 3 overlap at some items |
| 00:13.22 | Ahli | the items show with a ping where to buy that thing, so that's ok |
| 00:13.35 | Bommes | yeah but still, at some point you want to learn it |
| 00:13.49 | Bommes | and from experience all new players i played with |
| 00:13.51 | Bommes | were really confused |
| 00:14.19 | Bommes | or maybe i just expected too much and didnt give them enough time :D |
| 00:14.45 | Ahli | also, how do you counter heroes that go invis? one guy kept going invisible which ended in 2 hitting me... :S |
| 00:15.46 | Bommes | you can buy either dust of appearance (2 times use item that reveals area around you), sentry wards (wards that you place that detect invis) or buy a gem (item that is dropped on death and reveals invis) |
| 00:15.56 | Bommes | also there are some heroes that can detect invis with there abilities |
| 00:16.05 | Bommes | *their |
| 00:16.09 | Ahli | k |
| 00:16.29 | Bommes | gem of truesight is the full name |
| 00:16.44 | Ahli | I only played 4-5 games :D that was the game I lost without my team leaving for no reason... |
| 00:17.06 | Bommes | ;) yeah dota isn't much fun in low level matchmaking |
| 00:17.14 | Bommes | especially if you play at the time when they put out a lot of new keys |
| 00:17.25 | Bommes | so new players join and just play 1 or 2 games and leave after 5 minutes |
| 00:17.33 | Bommes | at least thats what i heard |
| 00:18.10 | Ahli | yes, I had that in 2 games and then you try to manage 2 heroes along with your one... or hope that the enemy ends the game fast |
| 00:18.17 | Ahli | there is no surrender afaIk |
| 00:18.43 | Bommes | yeah there isn't |
| 00:18.47 | Bommes | annoys me too sometimes |
| 00:19.03 | A1win | I wonder if it's possible to do voice acting well enough without having any proper practice... or figure out how to practice properly |
| 00:19.11 | A1win | I mean |
| 00:19.15 | A1win | I wonder how long it'd take |
| 00:19.15 | Bommes | but on the other hand there is almost always a chance to win and I would've surrendered a lot of games that turned out to get really nice |
| 00:19.40 | Ahli | well, one vs 5 :S |
| 00:19.51 | Ahli | it's not that I can micromanage 5 heroes... |
| 00:20.14 | Bommes | if other players left |
| 00:20.21 | Bommes | you can leave too without consequences though |
| 00:20.22 | Ahli | only mine |
| 00:20.27 | Bommes | its the same as surrendering |
| 00:20.28 | Ahli | how do you leave a game? |
| 00:20.39 | Bommes | if someone already left you can go into the menu |
| 00:20.49 | Bommes | and then there is a leave game button or something like that |
| 00:20.55 | Bommes | in the "play" submenu |
| 00:20.59 | Bommes | where you search for the game |
| 00:20.59 | Ahli | k, then I didn't see it... |
| 00:21.07 | Ahli | didn't check the submenus |
| 00:21.08 | Bommes | only shows up once someone left though |
| 00:25.03 | Ahli | I killed steam with mouse clicks only |
| 00:25.45 | Skaft | dota pubs are dreadful |
| 00:26.26 | Ahli | argh, win8... kill it |
| 00:26.42 | Ahli | kill steam process... why do you take so long to do that |
| 00:26.48 | Skaft | are you using win8? :o |
| 00:27.11 | Ahli | yes |
| 00:27.16 | Skaft | how is it? |
| 00:27.20 | Skaft | havent heard good things about it |
| 00:29.23 | Ahli | I've the impression that it's more responsible than win7... the lack of the start button, the long path to the shutdown button and the start in the tile thing (+ no option to switch to desktop without having it launched before via windows key on keyboard) is terrible... |
| 00:29.57 | Ahli | everytime I want to open multiple windows with folders, I have a small problem |
| 00:30.36 | Skaft | isnt it basically a tablet os? |
| 00:30.49 | Ahli | yes... that's why it has these problems |
| 00:31.08 | Ahli | they didn't implement proper ways to make desktop users give a good experience |
| 00:31.17 | Ahli | *have |
| 00:31.52 | Skaft | pretty strange decision |
| 00:31.57 | Ahli | oh, and when you hit the windows key during gaming, you take a lot longer to switch back to your game |
| 00:32.18 | Ahli | at least they added the old windows update window with some recent update |
| 00:32.33 | Ahli | so I hope that they fix most of these problems someday |
| 00:32.48 | Skaft | i read that blizzard and valve talked about boycotting win8 |
| 00:33.23 | DeadZergling | i plan to as well, and I work at microsoft |
| 00:33.25 | DeadZergling | lol |
| 00:33.43 | Skaft | heh, i'm well happy with win7 |
| 00:33.48 | Ahli | I only use it because I got it for free, legally |
| 00:34.11 | Ahli | with a lifetime license :D |
| 00:34.37 | Skaft | i wouldnt mind installing it on my laptop i suppose |
| 00:35.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster Gwypaas (~chatzilla@78-69-139-83-no129.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 00:37.35 | Ahli | also, after the games there is some item in the bottom right... seems like something I've earned while playing... what is that? |
| 00:38.04 | Ahli | and I can't revert the middle mouse button scroll which I dislike |
| 00:39.21 | Skaft | well, it's still pretty new i guess |
| 00:40.00 | Ahli | these 2 things were directed at dota2 |
| 00:40.03 | Ahli | not win8 :D |
| 00:40.17 | Skaft | oh |
| 00:40.25 | Skaft | item bottom right? |
| 00:40.38 | Skaft | you mean while playing? |
| 00:40.46 | Ahli | no, in the score screen |
| 00:40.50 | Ahli | after the match |
| 00:41.16 | Skaft | well it drops gear or items that you can mod your characters with |
| 00:41.17 | Ahli | I had an axe there and some cloak I think |
| 00:41.26 | Skaft | if you go to customze > backpack |
| 00:41.49 | Skaft | it purely random drops but you get 1 item each levelup |
| 00:42.04 | Ahli | where is customize? |
| 00:42.16 | Skaft | in the mainmenu |
| 00:42.28 | Skaft | might remember the name incorrectly |
| 00:42.29 | Skaft | hmm |
| 00:42.38 | Ahli | well, the stuff doesn't work correctly while searching a match |
| 00:42.59 | Ahli | you can only open your profile once and it doesn't load fully |
| 00:43.16 | Skaft | i think you can do that |
| 00:43.16 | Ahli | ah there it is :S |
| 00:43.18 | Ahli | I'm blind |
| 00:44.50 | Ahli | cancel search doesn't stop the search |
| 00:44.55 | Ahli | I think I successfully broke it |
| 00:45.11 | Skaft | it should do, but it's usually pretty buggy |
| 00:46.45 | Ahli | now it automatically tried to search a match... pressing cancel restarted the timer, pressing it twice canceled it |
| 00:47.33 | Ahli | hmm, 6 minutes awaiting time |
| 00:47.50 | Skaft | you should try to restart it |
| 00:48.02 | Skaft | you should get games almost instant in the lowbracket |
| 00:48.10 | Ahli | I did |
| 00:48.44 | Ahli | however, doing it again |
| 00:49.24 | Ahli | 6 minutes :S dota2 is dead |
| 00:49.42 | Ahli | or I broke their servers |
| 00:49.43 | Skaft | i couldnt even connect to the network ^^ |
| 00:50.02 | Ahli | when I started, the time was on 2min which was normal yesterday |
| 00:51.26 | Ahli | omg found something |
| 00:56.32 | Skaft | nice |
| 00:58.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Taintedwisp (4bb541ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.181.65.238) |
| 00:58.13 | Taintedwisp | Hey everyone |
| 01:08.05 | Skaft | hello |
| 01:08.23 | Dustin | lets all go play bountys map on na! |
| 01:08.27 | Bommes | yeah steam network or at least dota 2 down for me |
| 01:08.29 | Bommes | cant connect either |
| 01:12.06 | Taintedwisp | Busy Designing the ultimate Marine Arena Terrain :P |
| 01:12.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-003-192.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 01:19.26 | Ahli | godlike ... |
| 01:23.18 | Ahli | 12 2 4... in the end I could one hit the enemy heroes with my R |
| 01:23.49 | Ahli | well, at least I found out that the boots got an active that give me mana :D |
| 01:25.24 | Guest35805 | how do i make it so that an area of the map is always visible to everyone? |
| 01:26.55 | Ahli | triggers: reveal region? |
| 01:27.04 | Ahli | in visibility category |
| 01:27.24 | Taintedwisp | There the Designing is completed |
| 01:27.53 | Guest35805 | found it thanks |
| 01:28.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster zeldarules28 (4777e1b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.119.225.182) |
| 01:28.21 | Taintedwisp | hey zelda |
| 01:28.48 | Taintedwisp | no lov/e |
| 01:28.49 | Taintedwisp | ? |
| 01:35.04 | Taintedwisp | Hey Thunderlord hows your project going? |
| 01:35.18 | ThunderLord | pretty good |
| 01:35.23 | ThunderLord | doing alot of terrain and ballance work |
| 01:35.33 | ThunderLord | I want to perfect the game's feel |
| 01:35.39 | Taintedwisp | Ah cool |
| 01:35.47 | ThunderLord | Its hard stuf to test |
| 01:35.51 | Taintedwisp | my terrain feels perfect :P |
| 01:36.05 | ThunderLord | the same terrain i saw? |
| 01:36.08 | Taintedwisp | yup |
| 01:36.13 | ThunderLord | yeah |
| 01:36.15 | ThunderLord | pretty good |
| 01:36.24 | ThunderLord | im not so much worried about the asthetics of it |
| 01:36.30 | Taintedwisp | You saw my infestors right? |
| 01:36.30 | ThunderLord | but the layout, pathing stuf |
| 01:36.33 | ThunderLord | yeah i did |
| 01:36.40 | ThunderLord | thats super cool |
| 01:36.47 | Taintedwisp | yeah, I accounted for all that in mine, but My trigger turned off War fog :P |
| 01:36.48 | ThunderLord | do you have much experience with custom models? |
| 01:37.02 | Taintedwisp | Not really, Those arent custom models just Custom Textures |
| 01:37.07 | Taintedwisp | You can texture swap any unit |
| 01:37.45 | ThunderLord | Hey do you think it woudl be possible for you to make some skillshot and cone shaped cursor splats? |
| 01:37.56 | Taintedwisp | I designed 4 marine arena terrains :P |
| 01:37.57 | Taintedwisp | http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x171/11shadowwolf/MultiMarinearena.png |
| 01:38.19 | Taintedwisp | I would have to see how they are made in Photoshop, ill take a lookat them later |
| 01:38.43 | Taintedwisp | if they are made simply, then yeah np |
| 01:38.59 | ThunderLord | yeah |
| 01:39.17 | ThunderLord | u know when i say skillshot i mean like, line shaped splat right? |
| 01:40.02 | ThunderLord | i see |
| 01:40.08 | ThunderLord | you made those for Marine Arena? |
| 01:40.12 | ThunderLord | why? lol |
| 01:40.24 | ThunderLord | they look good anyway |
| 01:40.44 | Taintedwisp | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/development/terrain/45062-marine-arena-us-terrain-competition-pay-pal-prize/#p18 |
| 01:41.02 | Taintedwisp | I was going through and thinking Heavily,On what would and wouldnt work as far as how his map is balanced... |
| 01:41.48 | ThunderLord | oh thats kinda cool |
| 01:41.56 | ThunderLord | i could prolly come up with somthing good |
| 01:42.04 | ThunderLord | but in anycase |
| 01:42.14 | ThunderLord | his map is so differant from mine |
| 01:42.23 | ThunderLord | it would be bard for nme to relate |
| 01:43.07 | Taintedwisp | :P yeah, I am more thinking of his map as a marine arena player then as a terrain editor |
| 01:43.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheSkunk__ (~TheSkunk_@70-100-204-50.dsl2.nor.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 01:46.17 | ThunderLord | Did u see that video i linked u yesterday? |
| 01:46.34 | Taintedwisp | dont think so |
| 01:46.41 | ThunderLord | k 1 sec |
| 01:46.43 | Taintedwisp | i was a bit out of it yesterday :P and today |
| 01:47.03 | ThunderLord | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p83_HJbbLXE&feature=channel&list=UL |
| 01:47.06 | ThunderLord | kinda lame |
| 01:47.09 | ThunderLord | im a stuttering loser |
| 01:47.12 | ThunderLord | but the ability is cool |
| 01:47.13 | ThunderLord | lol |
| 01:48.07 | ThunderLord | i can skip to lik 0:40 |
| 01:48.45 | ThunderLord | u can skip* |
| 01:48.50 | Taintedwisp | wait... |
| 01:48.58 | Taintedwisp | that wont slow the other players will it :P |
| 01:49.06 | Taintedwisp | otherwise that oculd get annoying :P |
| 01:49.45 | Taintedwisp | If so add a search area of like 8 and an apply buff that just slows the units in 8 range, so it only slows the time of those units |
| 01:51.01 | Taintedwisp | 10 minutes he still hasnt shown :P |
| 01:52.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jaxsun (60204f25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.32.79.37) |
| 01:53.11 | Taintedwisp | But yeah Thunderlord, I wouldnt strait freeze every player :P that would piss a lot of people off haha |
| 01:53.44 | ThunderLord | It slows everything... its really short so.... |
| 01:53.54 | ThunderLord | And its not freezing, just slow |
| 01:54.02 | Taintedwisp | ah |
| 01:54.39 | ThunderLord | The Chronolord's Ultimate Freezes all units, except himself, Ill be adding him in later |
| 01:54.49 | Taintedwisp | its really cool though |
| 01:54.56 | ThunderLord | its pretty cool cuz it freezes everyhing, projectiles, cooldowns all |
| 01:55.15 | ThunderLord | I have like 10 Heros done, but i want to make sure i can have a stable metagame with 5 |
| 01:56.02 | Jaxsun | hi guys, im new here. anyone mind helping me get settled in? |
| 01:56.36 | Taintedwisp | ah |
| 01:56.44 | Taintedwisp | what you need? |
| 01:57.34 | Taintedwisp | Well getting on Sc2 cya later |
| 01:58.07 | Jaxsun | some other time then |
| 01:58.19 | ThunderLord | i can help u if u need somthing specific |
| 01:58.38 | ThunderLord | u new to the editor or just this irc? |
| 01:58.51 | A1win | better just ask a question than wait for someone to reply before asking ;X |
| 01:58.59 | A1win | higher chance of a response that way o: |
| 02:01.23 | Jaxsun | sorry i was afk |
| 02:01.33 | Jaxsun | to answer your question, thunderlord, both |
| 02:02.27 | ThunderLord | Well, then you have alot to learn lol, but you can learn it from sc2mapster and if not there this IRC |
| 02:02.29 | Jaxsun | and @alwin i see, but im completely new so i wouldnt know where to begin |
| 02:03.00 | A1win | that depends on what you want to do |
| 02:03.27 | Jaxsun | i've been looking at the tutorials section in the sc2mapster forums and i just get overwhelmed by everything |
| 02:03.57 | Jaxsun | i was wondering if someone could give me periodic exercises to slowly build up my experience |
| 02:04.46 | A1win | are you more interested in making new kinds of game modes or new kinds of units and abilities and such? |
| 02:05.17 | A1win | the trigger and data editor are very different from each other, each can do its own thing (although they also overlap alot) |
| 02:05.20 | A1win | *a lot |
| 02:05.45 | A1win | or if you just want to make terrain, the terrain editor is fairly simple in comparison |
| 02:06.10 | A1win | do you have any experience on editors of other games? |
| 02:06.18 | A1win | or experience in programming? |
| 02:06.55 | Jaxsun | what do you mean by new kinds of game modes, aren't they only separated into the two categories melee and custom? |
| 02:07.10 | A1win | I mean in general, not technically |
| 02:07.11 | ThunderLord | custom would be a new game mode |
| 02:07.30 | A1win | you can pretty much create new "games" with the editor if you get deep enough |
| 02:07.46 | Jaxsun | as for my experience, i haven't touched any other game editors and i have very basic knowledge of java |
| 02:08.22 | A1win | well, we need to know what you want to do with the editor before we can offer much help |
| 02:08.24 | Jaxsun | deciding to use the sc2 editor is just a personal goal for me to get more experience with programming |
| 02:08.37 | Jaxsun | get used to programming |
| 02:09.21 | Jaxsun | @alwin i see.. |
| 02:09.24 | ThunderLord | Personally, i learned programming from the SC2 Editor, and now im working on a Comp Sci Degree |
| 02:09.26 | A1win | the trigger editor is a GUI that is used to generate script code, but using the GUI is much like programming |
| 02:09.40 | A1win | *even using the GUI |
| 02:10.30 | A1win | so I'd suggest doing something with the trigger editor, then |
| 02:10.33 | Jaxsun | i looked at the trigger editor and i have a general idea how to use it, but whenever i look at the data editor it just overwhelms me |
| 02:10.50 | A1win | the data editor requires a lot of knowledge of what everything in it does |
| 02:10.59 | A1win | after that, it's simply altering the values of those data entries |
| 02:11.06 | A1win | which is stored in XML format |
| 02:11.24 | ThunderLord | It helps if u want to make somthing specific and you learn all the componets for that |
| 02:11.29 | ThunderLord | just 1 step at a time |
| 02:11.41 | ThunderLord | but that first step usually requires you to learn several things at once |
| 02:11.54 | Jaxsun | yeah i thought the same thing, for example making a simple defense game |
| 02:12.06 | A1win | the editor is *very* complex, it takes some time to get used to it |
| 02:12.30 | Jaxsun | i was capable of using triggers to make waves and stuff, but when it came to the different types of units to spawn i just couldnt do it |
| 02:12.36 | A1win | but you can start small not to overwhelm yourself |
| 02:12.55 | DeadZergling | yes, good example, don't have your first project be an RPG.... |
| 02:13.01 | A1win | hehe |
| 02:13.02 | Jaxsun | hahaha |
| 02:13.08 | Jaxsun | makes sense |
| 02:13.20 | Jaxsun | what would you guys propose to be an easy project |
| 02:13.44 | DeadZergling | defense is a pretty good way to go I'd say |
| 02:14.10 | DeadZergling | you'd have to use the data editor a little if you wanted to change default values, like damage/hp/armor |
| 02:14.23 | DeadZergling | but defense is pretty much just organizing triggers |
| 02:14.34 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 02:14.49 | DeadZergling | no, don't try to make elements defense or anything |
| 02:14.56 | Jaxsun | elements defense? |
| 02:14.58 | DeadZergling | just make a simple 10 wave defense |
| 02:15.07 | DeadZergling | is a featured, overly complex defense, lol |
| 02:15.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster ThunderLord_ (a807ea27@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.7.234.39) |
| 02:15.13 | Jaxsun | mm |
| 02:15.20 | ThunderLord_ | If i were u i would work on ur defence game |
| 02:15.25 | ThunderLord_ | and instead of making you own units |
| 02:15.30 | ThunderLord_ | just modify units already in game |
| 02:15.57 | DeadZergling | not even that, just make a simple 10 wave defense |
| 02:16.08 | DeadZergling | the hell if it is 20 thors against waves of zerglings/marines |
| 02:16.11 | DeadZergling | that's not the point |
| 02:16.27 | A1win | your first project doesn't need to be very interesting as a result, chances are it wouldn't get very interesting even if you tried very hard :P |
| 02:16.31 | A1win | so just make something simple |
| 02:16.50 | Jaxsun | ill go with deadzergling's idea |
| 02:16.57 | DeadZergling | when you are happy w/ what you got there |
| 02:17.03 | DeadZergling | then you can think about what else you'd like to do |
| 02:17.12 | DeadZergling | keep going like that |
| 02:17.14 | A1win | like an rpg- no wait |
| 02:17.18 | ThunderLord_ | once you get a general idea of the editor, learning new things one at a time... |
| 02:17.23 | DeadZergling | lol, a1win |
| 02:17.26 | DeadZergling | my case was much different |
| 02:17.41 | Jaxsun | how active is this IRC? |
| 02:17.49 | A1win | it's been getting more active lately |
| 02:17.57 | DeadZergling | semi-active to crickets |
| 02:18.05 | ThunderLord_ | I encourage you to stick with it... Alot of people i know give up shortly after starting galaxy editing, because they cant get over the initial learning curve, but it is awesome once you do |
| 02:18.18 | DeadZergling | for you Jaxsun, most people here will be knowledgeable |
| 02:18.28 | DeadZergling | as you are getting started |
| 02:18.29 | ThunderLord_ | Active enough, there is always atleast a few really smart people online |
| 02:18.37 | A1win | I'm not completely sure how it feels like to be completely new to it, as I've been using game editors since late 90's :P |
| 02:18.46 | DeadZergling | easier questions most know the answers to, as you get more complicated questions |
| 02:18.51 | DeadZergling | you'll get fewer and fewer responses |
| 02:18.54 | A1win | I even made maps for HeroQuest in early 90s |
| 02:18.54 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 02:18.57 | A1win | (a board game) |
| 02:19.45 | Jaxsun | great to hear that, i have my thanksgiving break coming up and i wanted to fully learn how to use the editor in that time |
| 02:19.48 | DeadZergling | hopefully that makes some sense Jaxsun |
| 02:20.01 | DeadZergling | I've tutored math/computer science for 5 years |
| 02:20.03 | Jaxsun | maybe fully learning is a stretch but atleast be more competent |
| 02:20.14 | A1win | haha good luck with that, I've been using the editor since it was released and I still don't fully know how to use it ; |
| 02:20.17 | A1win | ;) |
| 02:20.20 | DeadZergling | I don't know if anyone on here or in mapster FULLY understands the whole editor |
| 02:20.39 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 02:20.39 | ThunderLord_ | Me too A1win lol |
| 02:20.50 | A1win | although, I have a very good understanding of what I need to do if I want to learn something that I don't already know about it |
| 02:21.12 | ThunderLord_ | i started the project i am working on now, the day the editor hit the beta |
| 02:21.18 | A1win | hehe |
| 02:21.24 | ThunderLord_ | i stoped and went to 2 other projects along the way |
| 02:21.25 | DeadZergling | by the way A1Win, 13 more days till I'm proved wrong |
| 02:21.25 | A1win | oh well I haven't *actively* been using it for all that time |
| 02:21.29 | A1win | DeadZergling, :P |
| 02:21.30 | ThunderLord_ | and ive came back but, still |
| 02:21.47 | A1win | I already came up with a beginning for my story, and for the first encounter ;o |
| 02:21.54 | Jaxsun | i guess it must take a really long time to put out maps |
| 02:22.12 | A1win | depends on how complicated map you're making |
| 02:22.14 | DeadZergling | Depends what you want it to do, Bounty puts out maps quite actively |
| 02:22.19 | A1win | or how many projects you abandon before they are finished :P |
| 02:22.32 | Jaxsun | who is bounty? what maps has he published? |
| 02:22.35 | A1win | I have like 10-15 unfinished maps and 1 finished :P |
| 02:22.38 | DeadZergling | ling ling rocket |
| 02:22.41 | A1win | well not even finished |
| 02:22.42 | DeadZergling | haunted forest |
| 02:22.43 | A1win | but... published |
| 02:22.50 | DeadZergling | photon discs was his too right? |
| 02:22.53 | A1win | yeah |
| 02:23.00 | Jaxsun | was the haunted forest the youtube vid on frontpage of sc2mapster? |
| 02:23.07 | DeadZergling | yea |
| 02:23.14 | Jaxsun | ah that looked cool |
| 02:23.20 | Jaxsun | didnt know you could put it in FPS view like that |
| 02:23.41 | DeadZergling | the controls pissed me off, but that is because i've been playing FPS since wolf 3d and doom |
| 02:23.41 | A1win | the FPS controls are very laggy in SC2, I refrain from using them at all in my projects |
| 02:23.44 | A1win | some people are fine with them |
| 02:23.46 | DeadZergling | I am very picky |
| 02:24.16 | Jaxsun | yeah i remember reading the WASD tut but it said there was a pretty bad delay |
| 02:24.27 | A1win | there is a 250ms latency between client and server, and when using key down triggers, the latency is doubled because it needs to go back and forth |
| 02:24.48 | A1win | or was it 125ms |
| 02:24.52 | A1win | and double 250ms |
| 02:24.55 | A1win | anyway, it feels bad :P |
| 02:25.03 | Jaxsun | 125 sounds more right |
| 02:25.05 | DeadZergling | and makes us sad |
| 02:25.48 | DeadZergling | anyways, just pop in here when you got specific questions Jaxsun |
| 02:25.51 | Jaxsun | do you guys take part in the weekly exercises? |
| 02:25.58 | DeadZergling | lots of people are helpful |
| 02:26.03 | DeadZergling | I never have the time |
| 02:26.07 | A1win | http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1D8ACB96B0AC4169 <- so many unfinished stuff :I |
| 02:26.10 | A1win | *much |
| 02:26.13 | DeadZergling | I work, have a wife, 3 kids, and an RPG project |
| 02:26.48 | Jaxsun | @deadzergling yeah, i assume that most people do the editing on the side as a hobby |
| 02:26.59 | Jaxsun | editing/map making* |
| 02:27.08 | DeadZergling | Not all, some are lucky and have no life. |
| 02:27.13 | A1win | like me |
| 02:27.16 | DeadZergling | And some work at K-mart |
| 02:27.20 | Jaxsun | a1win were you the maker of craftcraft?? |
| 02:27.25 | A1win | yeah |
| 02:27.27 | Jaxsun | wow |
| 02:27.29 | Jaxsun | i played that map |
| 02:27.42 | A1win | :x |
| 02:27.48 | A1win | that's like the only thing I've got published |
| 02:28.07 | A1win | and probably will never finish it >.> takes so much time to test and balance after big changes |
| 02:28.07 | Jaxsun | i thought it was amazing how you made it so you have to hook up power lines for buildings to work |
| 02:28.09 | DeadZergling | lol, I've only got one map published for all the editing ive done |
| 02:28.15 | DeadZergling | over the last 10-15 years |
| 02:28.25 | DeadZergling | well, by published I mean, I felt was finished |
| 02:28.33 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 02:28.44 | A1win | the power grid system is a pain because there are no objects in the galaxy script language |
| 02:28.47 | A1win | it's all arrays and stuff :P |
| 02:28.52 | Jaxsun | @alwin what did you have to do to make the power lines work? |
| 02:28.55 | A1win | index checking rgh |
| 02:29.07 | A1win | well... a lot of things ;p |
| 02:29.13 | Jaxsun | @deadzergling and what map is that? |
| 02:29.20 | A1win | the actual spawning of the power cables is fairly simple |
| 02:29.21 | DeadZergling | Oh, old Brood Wars one |
| 02:29.25 | DeadZergling | Elements 6, Nuclear Winter |
| 02:29.39 | A1win | but managing the power consumption and stuff in the grids is crazy D: |
| 02:30.02 | DeadZergling | the one that shows up on google as the crappy elements map |
| 02:30.05 | DeadZergling | lol |
| 02:30.52 | A1win | my reaper sidescroller video got over 31k views D: I uploaded it during the WoL beta |
| 02:30.59 | Jaxsun | i dont recall those maps at all, deadzergling, but then again broodwar was way back then |
| 02:31.08 | Jaxsun | what does WoL stand for? |
| 02:31.12 | A1win | abandoned the project because it'd only have worked in singleplayer because of the delay <.< |
| 02:31.15 | A1win | Wings of Liberty |
| 02:31.15 | DeadZergling | Game you are modding for |
| 02:32.06 | DeadZergling | anyways, I'll release my RPG someday, when it is ready |
| 02:32.26 | A1win | anyway my next project is much simpler than almost any other project that I've started :P and hopefully interesting enough that I can keep working on it to keep it gong |
| 02:32.34 | Jaxsun | who is that directed at, deadzergling? |
| 02:32.50 | DeadZergling | Might go a little faster if I didn't try to constantly optimize things |
| 02:32.55 | Jaxsun | "Game you are modding for" |
| 02:32.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster pirate (8e01344a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.1.52.74) |
| 02:32.57 | DeadZergling | and goof existing working triggers up |
| 02:33.02 | DeadZergling | WoL = Starcraft 2 |
| 02:33.04 | DeadZergling | at the moment |
| 02:33.31 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 02:33.31 | A1win | I had to say WoL beta because if I had said SC2 beta, it could refer to heart of the swarm beta which is currently running :P |
| 02:34.14 | DeadZergling | kind of silly what I did to my saving system A1 |
| 02:34.37 | DeadZergling | Just decided I felt the need to upgrade from a perfectly functioning Vigicimal Number base, to a TreOctagicimal.... |
| 02:34.47 | A1win | speaking of which, I need an achievement system for this map <.< |
| 02:34.54 | DeadZergling | That means base 20 and base 83, for those not nerdy enough to know |
| 02:34.55 | Jaxsun | so sad, alwin, this one comment on your reaper side scroller video "Okay, this looks fun as shit. Please release this when the game comes out, I would love to play!" |
| 02:35.05 | A1win | ;x |
| 02:35.31 | A1win | I wouldn't even be able to release it on bnet because even singleplayer games there have the latency problem |
| 02:36.05 | DeadZergling | I liked the baneling insanity map in beta |
| 02:36.17 | A1win | at some point I remade the "engine" for the reaper game, made it dynamically detect possible jumps and made a lot of different kinds of jumps possible |
| 02:36.33 | Jaxsun | mind going into detail of what that means, deadzergling? about your saving system and number base |
| 02:36.43 | A1win | maybe if they allow us to publish singleplayer maps with no latency in them, I might continue the project |
| 02:37.46 | A1win | DeadZergling, do you know about StarCode library? |
| 02:37.54 | A1win | it can compress integers into strings |
| 02:38.41 | DeadZergling | I know of it, I chose not to use it. |
| 02:40.05 | A1win | any particular reasons? |
| 02:40.55 | DeadZergling | think I might of got annoyed w/ the string char limit, the extra performance cost of using it. |
| 02:41.12 | DeadZergling | And was a good excuse to make my own functions for conversion up/banking up anyways. |
| 02:41.18 | A1win | hehe |
| 02:41.40 | pirate | is the actor message, "set cast shadows" broken? |
| 02:41.52 | A1win | no idea, never used it |
| 02:42.19 | pirate | I dont want my imported spell effects to cast shadows :( |
| 02:42.48 | DeadZergling | besides that, my banks are confusing as it is |
| 02:43.04 | DeadZergling | they don't need help, if anyone hacks them, they deserve the hacked stats |
| 02:46.56 | A1win | so I had this idea for the beginning of my map where the players (civilian characters) are trapped by the mad scientist in his lair, and he's giving them The Speech, saying that too bad it's all over already, feels as if we just started, and then proceeds into killing the players by releasing ultralisks upon them... however, the ultralisks get caught to each other by their tusks (was watching an SC2 tournament with ultras vs ultras and I was like ... |
| 02:47.02 | A1win | ... "would be funny if they got stuck into a deadlock"), and the players get a chance to move away from them... then the mad scientist decides that he wanted to kill the players himself anyway and jumps into a Thor... which in turn has a rather slow targeting system and the players get to dodge the cannon fire, and are able to kite the ultralisks into it... then I'm not quite sure how they end up actually escaping the situation but this seems like a ... |
| 02:47.08 | A1win | ... good start :P |
| 02:47.10 | A1win | hmm that turned out long |
| 02:47.50 | A1win | so to start with "the final epic battle" where the players don't need to do anything but move and sprint |
| 02:48.21 | A1win | it gets more complicated in the further encounters but this sounds like a nice introduction of what the whole thing is about |
| 02:48.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster EnexyNunu (48c02a9e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.192.42.158) |
| 02:50.30 | pirate | glow actor message also seems broken |
| 02:56.49 | DeadZergling | good luck w/ that a1win, i've been discovering requiring good micro skills from players isn't too popular in my project, lol |
| 02:57.04 | A1win | hehe |
| 02:57.22 | A1win | well it won't be that much about micro skills when you only have 1 unit and all you need to do is move it ;p |
| 02:57.49 | A1win | and I'm going to make it very easy for normal mode, and add some more difficult alternative ways of beating encounters to get hard mode achievements |
| 02:57.50 | DeadZergling | yea, exactly what I have them do.... |
| 02:57.56 | A1win | hehe |
| 02:58.03 | Jaxsun | when creating a map, what should i make the dimensions of the map be? |
| 02:58.18 | A1win | depends on how big map you want :P you can edit it later if needed |
| 02:58.25 | A1win | in Map - Map Bounds |
| 02:58.39 | Jaxsun | does having the max size map have any adverse effects if i only use a small portion? |
| 02:58.56 | A1win | nah all sizes should work just as fine |
| 02:59.08 | A1win | it's more about the number of stuff you put in it |
| 02:59.18 | A1win | *amount of stuff |
| 02:59.38 | A1win | though if you make a huge map with a very complex navigation mesh, then it might cause some issues if there are a lot of units on it too |
| 03:00.03 | Jaxsun | navigation mesh? |
| 03:00.16 | A1win | the area that units can walk on |
| 03:00.29 | A1win | if it has lots of stuff to block movement etc the navigation mesh becomes more complex |
| 03:00.54 | Jaxsun | i see |
| 03:01.00 | A1win | like if you make a 256x256 maze with size 1 corridors, the nav mesh is very complex |
| 03:01.43 | A1win | you can see the mesh in the editor, View - Pathing... or something like that |
| 03:02.42 | A1win | navigation mesh is a set of polygons that are connected to each other, and that the units use to navigate in the map |
| 03:02.59 | A1win | in an empty map, the navigation mesh is just one big rectangle and is as simple as it can be |
| 03:03.12 | A1win | but as soon as you put let's say one rock in the middle of it, it already splits into 8 rectangles |
| 03:03.16 | Jaxsun | do you yourself build from the center and then adjust the map bounds accordingly? |
| 03:03.16 | A1win | or 4 if it's smart |
| 03:03.32 | A1win | well depends on what I'm doing |
| 03:04.02 | A1win | you can add and subtract space from any side of the map at any time with the Map Bounds window |
| 03:04.40 | A1win | doesn't really matter, you could just make a 256x256 map and then after you're done, remove all the unused space from it |
| 03:05.33 | DeadZergling | lol, http://cheezburger.com/6760838400 |
| 03:06.02 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 03:06.07 | A1win | hehe |
| 03:08.22 | A1win | figuring out the end for this encounter is troublesome, not sure how the players get to escape from it so that it makes some sense and doesn't feel too much like a deus ex machina |
| 03:09.01 | A1win | like... if there was something logical that would happen when the ultralisks die that might help the |
| 03:09.04 | A1win | them |
| 03:09.22 | A1win | now it's like... well, now the ultralisks are dead, but you still have that thor to worry about |
| 03:10.09 | A1win | and if there's like some object they can try to make the thor shoot at, why not just do that while the ultralisks are still there |
| 03:10.39 | Jaxsun | make the thor periodically reload missiles and while it's reloading allow the civilians to chip away at its life points? |
| 03:10.46 | A1win | although... why not give them that option too o: make it extra hard if they decide not to kill the ultras |
| 03:12.07 | A1win | mmfmff |
| 03:12.35 | A1win | but it's actually nice to solve this kind of problems instead of actual game mechanical problems :x |
| 03:12.54 | A1win | well, these are game mechanics too, but simple enough not to have to worry about them too much |
| 03:14.25 | Jaxsun | seems to me like this is less problem solving and more game designing |
| 03:14.33 | A1win | hehe |
| 03:14.51 | A1win | same thing ;p |
| 03:15.00 | A1win | kind of |
| 03:15.09 | A1win | designing is decision making |
| 03:15.30 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 03:15.36 | A1win | and problem solving is needed to make those decisions in many cases |
| 03:15.46 | A1win | to figure out the best ways to go |
| 03:17.06 | A1win | anyway I don't like that chipping away idea, I don't want the civilians to seem powerful at all without any equipment at hand |
| 03:17.40 | A1win | the idea of the map is that the players find stuff in each encounter that enable new abilities for them that they then need to use to solve/beat that encounter |
| 03:17.51 | A1win | so it's kind of a puzzle game in a sense |
| 03:18.41 | Jaxsun | so how are you going to make the missiles come? |
| 03:18.45 | A1win | and in this first encounter, I don't want them to need to do anything complicated, since it's the first encounter |
| 03:18.59 | A1win | what do you mean? |
| 03:19.02 | Jaxsun | top down or in a line from the thor to a point |
| 03:19.46 | A1win | ah... I was thinking of just marking the target area with something like the terran nuke target thingy (scaled down) a couple of seconds before the thor fires |
| 03:19.55 | Jaxsun | with top down, the only thing you can do is lure ultralisks into the impact point, but if they're fired from the thor in a line then maybe you can mess around with whatever the missile collides with |
| 03:20.02 | A1win | not necessarily missiles, but that boom-boom ability they have |
| 03:20.33 | A1win | mm dunno |
| 03:20.38 | A1win | that might give me more options |
| 03:20.49 | Jaxsun | actually |
| 03:21.21 | A1win | haha if it takes this long to design one phase of an encounter, I wonder how long it takes to make the entire map... |
| 03:21.27 | A1win | oh well maybe I'll get the hang of it at some point |
| 03:21.35 | Jaxsun | one way to do it is make the explosions how you wanted it |
| 03:21.41 | Jaxsun | the marker and explosion after a timer |
| 03:22.10 | Jaxsun | and then after a set amount of explosions, make a wall "crumble" due to the vibrations and one player and sneak about to deactivate the thor |
| 03:22.46 | Jaxsun | heck, you can make it an obstacle course to get to the control room |
| 03:23.36 | A1win | hmm yeah could make it just destroy the "room" after it's fired enough times, and make the ultraisks get more and more difficult to avoid over time... to give the encounter a "hard mode" by not killing the ultras |
| 03:24.01 | A1win | but if you do that, you need to be very good at kiting them around without getting caught by them :;P |
| 03:24.04 | A1win | :P |
| 03:24.14 | A1win | easy mode is to just let the ultras die to the thor |
| 03:24.28 | A1win | and the hard mode can continue so that the ultras chase the players out of the room |
| 03:24.46 | A1win | I don't really want them to beat the thor, just escape from the room |
| 03:25.04 | A1win | as the main protagonist of the story is controlling the thor, don't want him to get busted at that point yet ;p |
| 03:25.58 | A1win | can make each shot from the thor shake players' cameras and set some fires up around the room to indicate that the whole place is getting damaged |
| 03:26.02 | Jaxsun | you can always cheese it and make the typical villain luckily gets away because the players are distracted |
| 03:26.09 | A1win | hehe |
| 03:26.33 | Jaxsun | the ol' "you may have one this time, but i'll be back!" and escape |
| 03:26.38 | Jaxsun | may have won* |
| 03:26.54 | A1win | nah the players escape, that's how the map begins instead of ends |
| 03:27.11 | A1win | if they beat the boss right there, there would be nothing to continue to ;p |
| 03:27.42 | Jaxsun | so the whole map, the players are dancing in the palm of the protag's hands? |
| 03:28.00 | A1win | pretty much, at least the first part |
| 03:28.32 | A1win | I was planning on making this a "monthly challenge" kind of thing where I keep adding new parts, but we'll see about that |
| 03:28.59 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 03:29.12 | Jaxsun | have you ever heard of the wc3 map impossible bosses |
| 03:29.15 | Jaxsun | or something along the lines of that |
| 03:29.17 | A1win | nope |
| 03:29.22 | A1win | didn't really play sc3 custom maps much |
| 03:29.33 | DeadZergling | sounds like a remake of the BW impossible battles map |
| 03:29.38 | DeadZergling | anyways, im outta here |
| 03:29.42 | DeadZergling | 13 days a1 :) |
| 03:29.43 | A1win | err |
| 03:29.44 | A1win | *wc3 |
| 03:30.02 | A1win | was it 13 days to not give up or 13 days to get something done D: |
| 03:30.13 | Jaxsun | impossible bosses is like a WoW raid boss encounter where you dps the boss while dodging events |
| 03:30.18 | DeadZergling | the former |
| 03:30.58 | A1win | :x well shouldn't take long to get this first encounter done once I have it planned |
| 03:31.15 | A1win | so 12 more days of planning and half a day implementation =p |
| 03:31.20 | A1win | at last minute |
| 03:31.34 | A1win | as usual |
| 03:31.48 | A1win | :x |
| 03:32.08 | A1win | yeah at first the idea was to have a map with "scripted boss encounters" |
| 03:32.09 | DeadZergling | so we shall see |
| 03:32.12 | DeadZergling | I'm off :) |
| 03:32.17 | Jaxsun | lmk if you want help brainstorming ideas, i dont have any editor experience but thinking of encounters isnt too tough |
| 03:33.08 | A1win | then I thought to have something else than a "hero" because that's so overly used these days |
| 03:33.20 | A1win | and wouldn't want to make it just a wow copy |
| 03:33.43 | Jaxsun | why not make it ''villain'' |
| 03:33.53 | Jaxsun | a story of evil vs good, where you play as evil |
| 03:34.14 | A1win | so a couple of days ago I realized that if all the player abilities are also given by the map instead of always being on the players, I can make the encounters vary even more, and make designing more fun o: |
| 03:35.21 | A1win | I'm thinking of having like a few "ability types" like "shoot", "use device" and such, and the abilities the players gain from encounters just replace and enable those ability types, so that all abilities of one type are always in the same command card slot and have the same hotkey |
| 03:35.41 | Jaxsun | whats the difference between abilities that are given by the map vs always being on the players |
| 03:35.54 | A1win | like if you big up a death ray, you can shoot with death ray by using the "shoot" ability, and if you pick up a stun ray, you can use that with the "same" ability |
| 03:36.19 | A1win | you only have the abilities for as long as you are carrying the thing that gives it to you |
| 03:36.40 | A1win | instead of having pre-made hero classes or such |
| 03:37.21 | Jaxsun | ah, it makes the civilians seem more variable rather than having a rigid action bar |
| 03:37.25 | A1win | the only permanent ability the players have is some kind of a sprint, or at least I haven't thought of anything else so far |
| 03:37.29 | A1win | mm |
| 03:38.16 | Jaxsun | good idea too, it would be a dead give away if you had a button on the command card that says ''pick up'' ''use'' ''shoot'' |
| 03:38.51 | A1win | well picking up and activating buttons and stuff can be simply done by right-clicking on objects |
| 03:39.11 | A1win | but anything that isn't "in the map" like that needs to have an ability button |
| 03:39.46 | A1win | also thinking of color-coding the icons so that all shoot abilities have the same color scheme, but different picture |
| 03:39.56 | A1win | and so on |
| 03:40.06 | Jaxsun | of course, i was just using those commands for the sake of example |
| 03:40.11 | A1win | mm |
| 03:40.40 | A1win | this is also cool because it kind of resembles the good old point'n'click adventures in a sense :P |
| 03:40.50 | Jaxsun | by ''anything that isn't in the map'' do you mean interactables? |
| 03:40.58 | A1win | yeah |
| 03:41.11 | Jaxsun | interactable objects* |
| 03:41.14 | Jaxsun | mmm ok |
| 03:41.40 | Jaxsun | different picture corresponding to weapon picked up? |
| 03:41.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cheekything (~Cheekythi@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust861.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 03:41.45 | A1win | yeah |
| 03:42.08 | A1win | but same color scheme so that it's easy to notice that "oh, I have an ability I can shoot with" |
| 03:42.46 | A1win | also I'll probably remove the whole default console UI and only put a small action bar in the bottom middle of the screen |
| 03:43.27 | A1win | so that it's easy to notice whenever a button becomes active |
| 03:43.32 | Jaxsun | sounds too detailed for you to concern yourself with at this current stage, though you can save it for after all the big things are done |
| 03:43.57 | A1win | well that's easy since I've already done it in other maps :P just need to copy the layout file |
| 03:44.12 | Jaxsun | oh ok |
| 03:44.27 | Jaxsun | also making the button ping once when acquired isnt too bad |
| 03:44.36 | Jaxsun | as to further alert the player |
| 03:44.44 | A1win | depends, the default ping animation is not that good looking |
| 03:44.56 | A1win | but maybe something like an arrow on the UI pointing at it |
| 03:45.03 | A1win | or some kind of a notice icon |
| 03:45.21 | Jaxsun | the arrow would probably clash with the setting |
| 03:45.36 | A1win | yeah not an arrow, but anyway |
| 03:45.41 | A1win | that's not important yet ;p |
| 03:45.50 | Jaxsun | it'd look awfully unpleasant to see the arrow appear suddnely |
| 03:45.54 | A1win | hehe |
| 03:46.21 | A1win | but I think that if the icon colors are bright enough, it'll be easy to notice when a button becomes active just by having the icon appear there |
| 03:46.48 | A1win | since there isn't much else on the UI to draw the player's attention |
| 03:47.08 | Jaxsun | plus the fact that you'll be hiding the default UI so to miss the action bar would make the player far from able to play your map |
| 03:47.22 | A1win | probably won't even need health for the players, since the point of the game isn't damage, but avoiding things and such |
| 03:47.40 | A1win | what do you mean? |
| 03:48.27 | Jaxsun | what i mean to say is that if the players dont notice the action bar then they most likely wont be able to dodge |
| 03:48.42 | A1win | oh, why wouldn't they notice it o: |
| 03:49.04 | A1win | I don't mean it'll be a tiny thing that's barely noticable, but small in the sense that it doesn't have many buttons in it |
| 03:50.02 | A1win | could even scale up the buttons |
| 03:51.33 | Jaxsun | i dont believe that we both have the same interpretation of what i typed out, i'm not saying that your action bar will be not be noticed, but rather that if the player himself fails to notice the only UI on their screen then. . . etc etc |
| 03:52.12 | A1win | what's the difference between those? :P |
| 03:53.05 | Jaxsun | suppose it's like this |
| 03:53.31 | A1win | and of course there could be some tutorial that highlights the buttons for them, or like when they get the first ability ever, and so on, but once they get used to it, it doesn't require that anymore |
| 03:53.44 | Jaxsun | you bump into someone while walking, did you bump into that person because he/she was unnoticeable or did you bump into that person because of your awareness |
| 03:54.22 | Jaxsun | thus if the player is unaware of the action bar, he/she will also be unaware of the incoming projectiles |
| 03:54.52 | A1win | hmm how are the projectiles and the action bar related now? :P |
| 03:55.10 | Jaxsun | related in the sense that the player has to notice them |
| 03:55.19 | A1win | oh |
| 03:55.40 | A1win | you make it sound like they're playing with their eyes closed :x |
| 03:55.56 | Jaxsun | relating back to what i said earlier, if the player can not notice the bar then he/she will most likely not notice projectiles, thus be far from able to play the map |
| 03:56.09 | A1win | ahh |
| 03:56.14 | Jaxsun | there are quite a number of people who ''tunnel-vision'' |
| 03:56.36 | Jaxsun | tunnel-vision as in focus on one area or part of the screen |
| 03:56.59 | Jaxsun | which would make them not notice X Y or Z until it enters their field of vision |
| 03:57.31 | A1win | that's why the player needs to be aware of the fact that he just got a new ability, instead of just randomly giving it to him |
| 03:58.00 | A1win | like if you pick up a gun, you right click a gun on the ground, your character walks to it, and at that point the player knows he just found a gun and wants to know what he can do with it |
| 03:58.09 | A1win | err |
| 03:58.18 | A1win | "you" changed to "the player" at some point there but anyway ;p |
| 03:58.49 | Jaxsun | heh |
| 03:58.56 | Jaxsun | same thing |
| 03:59.02 | A1win | so basically the player makes the decision of obtaining that ability |
| 03:59.36 | A1win | or "an" ability |
| 03:59.41 | A1win | oh well |
| 03:59.48 | A1win | why are we still talking about this x_X |
| 04:00.08 | A1win | "this is not important" and then one hour later... |
| 04:00.17 | Jaxsun | you could also make a sound clip play when you pick up a weapon, *gun cock* ''oh yeah..." |
| 04:00.25 | A1win | hehe |
| 04:00.27 | A1win | mm |
| 04:01.07 | Jaxsun | ironic how we're discussing the finer points when the overall has yet to be decided on |
| 04:01.12 | A1win | speaking of that, I was hoping I could do voice acting for the mad scientist myself, but have no idea how that would turn out yet... never done any voice acting :P so it might fail horribly |
| 04:01.20 | A1win | in that case I guess I'll just use text |
| 04:01.25 | Jaxsun | but i think this is how people get motivation for projects |
| 04:01.32 | A1win | hehe |
| 04:01.38 | zlefin | shouldn't be that hard to find someone do voice acting |
| 04:01.48 | zlefin | i'm good with voices, but i tend to soudn rather nasally |
| 04:01.49 | A1win | yeah it helps to have a vision of what the game will be like |
| 04:01.58 | A1win | mm dunno |
| 04:03.01 | A1win | I guess my voice would be fine, but not sure if I could make the character sound fluent enough |
| 04:03.04 | Jaxsun | i think thats fine, using yourself as the voice actor |
| 04:03.16 | Jaxsun | fluent how? |
| 04:03.20 | Jaxsun | do you have an accent? |
| 04:03.23 | A1win | I mean like... in character |
| 04:03.25 | A1win | well, that too |
| 04:03.32 | A1win | but that might be just fine |
| 04:03.35 | zlefin | well, it's not hard to just talk into yoru microphone to record it and see how it turns out |
| 04:03.43 | zlefin | it only takes minutes to find out whether it'll sound good or not |
| 04:03.56 | A1win | mmm |
| 04:04.06 | Jaxsun | mad scientists are people too, they dont have to sound like a mad scientist |
| 04:04.11 | A1win | hehe |
| 04:04.27 | A1win | well in a parodyish style, they kinda have to :P |
| 04:04.36 | A1win | but I do have a goatee, maybe that'll help |
| 04:04.49 | Jaxsun | you could build his persona around the voice |
| 04:05.16 | A1win | I'm also afraid that I can't do a cool laugh for him :( |
| 04:05.33 | A1win | I guess I have to work on it, like Dr. Horrible taught us |
| 04:06.04 | Jaxsun | N.P.H.? |
| 04:06.12 | A1win | yeh |
| 04:06.17 | Jaxsun | heh |
| 04:06.30 | Jaxsun | is he your inspiration for this work? |
| 04:06.57 | A1win | nah not really, just been dealing with a lot of mad scientist themed stuff lately |
| 04:07.20 | Jaxsun | its a fun setting |
| 04:07.24 | A1win | was planning on something like that for CraftCraft too in the beginning but at some point I realized that implementing a story in that map was simply impossible :D |
| 04:07.36 | A1win | no time to read anything there |
| 04:07.51 | zlefin | dr doofenshmirtz! |
| 04:08.19 | Jaxsun | wow, i am not concentrating at all |
| 04:08.50 | Jaxsun | the progress i've made with this exercise is cliff with ramps, and 5 points |
| 04:08.56 | A1win | :x |
| 04:09.05 | Jaxsun | in the span of 2-3 hours |
| 04:09.17 | A1win | well it's more than I have |
| 04:09.27 | A1win | I haven't even opened the editor today |
| 04:09.49 | A1win | designing is more fun than actual implementation <.< |
| 04:10.03 | zlefin | i've decided what I want to test with reapers once I make a fancy test map: flight, energy based witha fast drain rate |
| 04:10.43 | Jaxsun | sometimes i get the urge to write what i want to do with paper and pencil |
| 04:11.22 | A1win | I write it in IRC (usually as a monolog), that way there's a chance that someone comments on it :P |
| 04:11.29 | zlefin | why are cliffs so common in sc worlds? the only planet i really know is earth, and on earth cliffs aren't that common; it's mostly flat areas, hills, and trees, some mountains but cliffs proper are quite rare |
| 04:11.55 | A1win | because they make an interesting game ;p |
| 04:12.01 | A1win | flat areas are boring |
| 04:12.17 | zlefin | they may make an interesting game; whether or not other solutions work hasn't really been examined thoroughly :P |
| 04:12.30 | zlefin | real world has plenty of stuff to do in warfare without cliffs |
| 04:12.30 | Jaxsun | if the cliffs werent common in SC worlds, reapers wouldnt be what they are |
| 04:13.33 | zlefin | or reapers would be different |
| 04:13.56 | Jaxsun | ill bbiab, was nice chatting with you guys |
| 04:14.05 | A1win | speaking of map variety: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382258 |
| 04:15.34 | zlefin | i don't see the resemblance to arkanoid |
| 04:18.06 | A1win | sleep time |
| 04:26.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cheekything (~Cheekythi@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust861.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 04:28.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cheekything (~Cheekythi@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust861.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 04:33.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cheekything (~Cheekythi@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust861.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 04:41.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@c-71-202-39-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:00.32 | EnexyNunu | everything should be on one map - makes things easier to balance |
| 05:00.39 | EnexyNunu | all these multiple maps O.o |
| 05:01.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Neskia (~demonic@static-96-253-78-90.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:13.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-149-14.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:25.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster ckSynergy (ckSynergy@r74-192-50-68.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 06:35.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster BangPow (4252a221@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.82.162.33) |
| 06:39.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~Lajla@ip51cc146b.speed.planet.nl) |
| 06:42.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@193.226.249.187.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 07:06.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster hobbidude (ce2f8ac2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.47.138.194) |
| 07:25.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (~Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 07:37.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (53f1057d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.241.5.125) |
| 07:57.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (Raziel@2a01:388:201:4190:e994:d3fd:e6fe:8533) |
| 08:06.32 | EnexyNunu | . |
| 08:08.05 | hobbidude | .. |
| 08:09.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@89.230.244.33) |
| 08:14.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster sShintah (~oer894n@c83-248-105-252.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 08:16.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster push (ce2f8ac2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.47.138.194) |
| 08:28.56 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@193.226.249.187.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 09:26.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dustin|WorkAlt (~Dustin@wsip-184-185-212-43.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 09:38.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Grum (~grum@82-197-193-241.fiber.tweak.nl) |
| 09:38.31 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+v Grum] by ChanServ |
| 09:38.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster grim001 (grim001@c-50-135-194-13.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 10:39.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (322e8dd1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.46.141.209) |
| 10:50.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (58870015@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.135.0.21) |
| 10:54.09 | DeadZergling | hey zolden, any progress on the sonic turret? |
| 10:55.05 | Zolden | decided to leave it like this :) |
| 10:55.34 | Zolden | but now I'm making the deviator |
| 10:56.03 | Zolden | 2 cylinders and a cabin |
| 10:57.17 | DeadZergling | cool, I'm just playing a game of guess what the catalog value exact name would be... |
| 10:59.13 | Zolden | hmm... "poops_as_vegetables"? |
| 10:59.50 | DeadZergling | may as well be |
| 11:00.08 | DeadZergling | it isn't hard for simpler ones I guess, like Damage Effect Amont |
| 11:00.11 | DeadZergling | *Amount |
| 11:00.27 | DeadZergling | but gets a little trickier with stuff with subfields |
| 11:01.28 | DeadZergling | it really isn't bad, I just don't work with them enough to know them very well |
| 11:01.31 | Zolden | is your editor localized? |
| 11:02.21 | DeadZergling | aye, I been cheating using the trigger set catalog and data editor and display script |
| 11:02.51 | Zolden | do you use ctrl+d to show raw data in data editor? |
| 11:02.58 | DeadZergling | yea |
| 11:03.19 | Zolden | doesn't it help? |
| 11:03.25 | DeadZergling | use the data editor to get a rough idea of what it should be |
| 11:03.41 | DeadZergling | then go to the trigger editor to use their prebuilt set dialog function |
| 11:03.50 | Zolden | so, they aren't exact names of the catalog fields? |
| 11:03.55 | DeadZergling | then finally I copy what that shows from the ctrl + f11 view |
| 11:04.05 | Zolden | well, display script is a useful thing too |
| 11:04.06 | DeadZergling | and hope I chose wisely |
| 11:04.16 | DeadZergling | not precisely, no |
| 11:05.15 | Zolden | as I remember, catalog can only change values which can be used by upgrades |
| 11:05.21 | Zolden | *changed |
| 11:05.30 | DeadZergling | aye, you are correct |
| 11:05.50 | DeadZergling | I'd just use upgrades, but they don't appreciate me trying to throw multiplication at them |
| 11:06.08 | Zolden | so, if we define an upgrade modify list, and check its string view, will it show some useful names? |
| 11:06.58 | DeadZergling | possibly, but it is just about as much trouble probably, lol |
| 11:07.03 | DeadZergling | ill take a look real quick |
| 11:07.27 | Zolden | btw, can we modify building/training costs yet? |
| 11:07.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Sevenix (pheonix@c-83-233-149-105.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 11:08.01 | DeadZergling | hrrrmmm, ill check that too |
| 11:08.09 | DeadZergling | not sure where to look for that one though, lol |
| 11:10.05 | Zolden | you don't need to check it, I can do it myself, only check if it whows fields names |
| 11:11.24 | DeadZergling | oh, I think I know where to check |
| 11:11.36 | DeadZergling | units cost is connected to unit, not the train ability |
| 11:12.06 | DeadZergling | yep, shows i can change the mineral cost to whatever |
| 11:12.11 | DeadZergling | add a terraize cost, etc |
| 11:12.28 | Zolden | what about the abilities? |
| 11:12.53 | Zolden | well, at least something |
| 11:13.12 | Zolden | maybe I had to use units costs |
| 11:13.49 | DeadZergling | yea |
| 11:13.54 | Zolden | anyway, I miss mapping... just 2 models left to implememnt and I dive into sea of editor |
| 11:14.03 | DeadZergling | i helped a guy, well was moral support a few days back |
| 11:14.13 | DeadZergling | discovered unit train cost is connected to unit |
| 11:14.33 | DeadZergling | i never give a damn about training units out of buildings though, so was news to me, lol |
| 11:14.54 | Zolden | well, there are tons of such tricky features in the editor |
| 11:15.02 | Zolden | it's a tricky program |
| 11:15.07 | Zolden | i like it for it |
| 11:15.18 | Zolden | complicated and actually smart |
| 11:25.00 | DeadZergling | well that was interesting to play w/, but still leaves me slightly guessing |
| 11:25.10 | DeadZergling | okay, leaves me a lot guessing, lol |
| 11:25.58 | DeadZergling | is fine though |
| 11:28.15 | DeadZergling | just how many models you made now anyways zolden |
| 11:28.57 | Zolden | dunno, about 10 |
| 11:31.26 | DeadZergling | pretty good |
| 11:31.35 | DeadZergling | what are you using it all for? a turret something I take it |
| 11:32.50 | Zolden | jsut a td map |
| 11:33.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster XenoX101 (XenoX101@ppp118-209-76-216.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 11:33.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@adsl-167-235.globonet.hu) |
| 11:33.37 | Zolden | or maybe the brain raping super kickass T motherfucking D map |
| 11:35.29 | DeadZergling | we shall see |
| 11:35.39 | DeadZergling | i want to help test it if only to see what your pig turret does, lol |
| 11:36.00 | Zolden | :)) |
| 11:36.06 | DeadZergling | should draw a little pig model |
| 11:36.10 | DeadZergling | for it to shoot as a missile |
| 11:36.14 | DeadZergling | or bacon |
| 11:36.26 | Zolden | hope I'll get a nice "oink" sound for launch or impact |
| 11:36.45 | DeadZergling | sure you can, animal noises are tricky to get good ones of though |
| 11:36.55 | DeadZergling | I had to search a long time to get authentic wolf barks |
| 11:36.59 | Zolden | maybe SALO |
| 11:37.11 | DeadZergling | but they really add to my wolf monsters |
| 11:37.22 | DeadZergling | that and the fact they jump on you, lol |
| 11:37.46 | DeadZergling | SALO? |
| 11:38.16 | Zolden | yeah, I had to search alot to get s imple minigun sound for my previous map |
| 11:38.45 | Zolden | salo is a kind of food ukrainians make from pigs |
| 11:38.50 | Zolden | dunno how to translate it |
| 11:38.56 | Zolden | it's a thing |
| 11:39.09 | DeadZergling | anyways, I should get going to sleep, only fixed up 2 more skills out of 20 tonight, but at least I purged my map of all the bugs brought on by my optimization |
| 11:39.31 | Zolden | good job |
| 11:39.36 | Zolden | and gn |
| 11:39.36 | DeadZergling | moving code around a lot is a great way to have weird unexplainable errors |
| 11:39.51 | DeadZergling | haha thx, maybe you'll have a deviator to show me when I get back on |
| 11:39.57 | DeadZergling | take it easy |
| 11:39.58 | Zolden | probably |
| 11:56.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies (53f1057d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.241.5.125) |
| 11:56.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@pC19F7735.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:24.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Nesetalis (~demonic@static-96-253-78-90.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 12:41.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@host81-149-116-140.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:44.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Exaken (~kvirc@dhcp-077-251-207-054.chello.nl) |
| 12:57.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Skaft (~Skaft1@u193-11-162-89.studentnatet.se) |
| 13:05.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster Gwypaas (~chatzilla@78-69-139-83-no129.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:07.09 | Gwypaas | Hello =) |
| 13:24.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheSkunk__ (~TheSkunk_@70-100-200-186.dsl2.nor.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 13:28.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Monkalizer (4ddbd9e5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.219.217.229) |
| 13:28.52 | Monkalizer | friday! |
| 13:31.22 | Skaft | Which seat should i take!? |
| 13:31.33 | Monkalizer | 42 |
| 13:37.32 | Gwypaas | Its friday friday friday............ |
| 13:41.57 | Monkalizer | :D |
| 13:42.10 | Monkalizer | I came up with a simple but really good map idea |
| 13:42.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (Raziel@2a01:388:201:4190:e994:d3fd:e6fe:8533) |
| 13:42.54 | Monkalizer | = friday evening saved :) |
| 13:46.19 | Gwypaas | Nice! |
| 13:47.42 | Gwypaas | why must you crash so often galaxy editor.... >.< |
| 13:53.41 | Monkalizer | If you turn your computer upside down it works better |
| 13:54.37 | Monkalizer | the bugs get turned upside down, and it takes some time for them to get back on their feet |
| 13:54.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-003-192.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 13:55.48 | Gwypaas | Oh really! I must try that! I also heard that bringing the entire computer up to like 90 degrees for a week or so would dry them out! |
| 13:56.14 | Monkalizer | turning up the fan makes them flush out |
| 13:58.14 | Gwypaas | Why not just drown them? =) |
| 13:58.17 | Gwypaas | =O |
| 14:00.05 | Exaken | You're a genius!:D |
| 14:00.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Ahli (~casdasdqq@dslb-188-101-190-037.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:01.11 | Gwypaas | Wtf "Files are missing from your SC2 installation".... Either Galaxy++ editor and Galaxe Editor doesn't like tot run together or I screwed something up when I exported MPQ data >.< |
| 14:01.17 | Gwypaas | fml |
| 14:03.32 | Exaken | Galaxy++ 3.1.0 uses the mpq to directly get the funtions, thus being always up to date with it |
| 14:04.00 | Gwypaas | Using 3.0.8 since I saw that error in the thread... |
| 14:04.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster zenxu-sama (d918696b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.105.107) |
| 14:04.50 | Gwypaas | Why isn't just galaxy++ made with a file containing the functions and constants so someone manually can just add stuff to it without releasing a new version and all that stuff.... |
| 14:05.38 | Gwypaas | Or maybe it would take too long to start and the file handling would be a resource hog... |
| 14:07.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster Vindicator (~Vindicato@cpe-76-183-4-127.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 14:21.51 | Dustin|WorkAlt | :O |
| 14:26.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Vindicator (~Vindicato@cpe-76-183-4-127.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 14:27.04 | Vindicator | so... i've got this weird problem... my data editor has no lists of data... it's kinda like when you start the editor without creating a new map and it's blank |
| 14:27.30 | Vindicator | except i made a new untitled map and it's still blank, though it says "data count 2000" or whatever at the bottom as if the data is there |
| 14:27.42 | Vindicator | i restarted the editor, same thing, rebooted, same thing.. |
| 14:28.05 | Gwypaas | Hmmm... tried selecting the right mod/mods you want to see? |
| 14:28.16 | Vindicator | nothing |
| 14:28.17 | Exaken | Maybe you got something in the search bar? |
| 14:28.25 | Vindicator | everything is selected by default and the search bars are both empty |
| 14:28.42 | Gwypaas | I'm all new to SC2 editing so I have no idea :( (Well, tried breaking stuff in beta but stuck to WC3 for the longest time.) |
| 14:30.25 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Make sure you include dependencies Vindicator |
| 14:30.39 | Vindicator | they are all there like usual x.x |
| 14:30.49 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Weird |
| 14:30.53 | Vindicator | i'm going to try repairing my sc2 install and see if it does anything |
| 14:31.05 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Did you try sumo-plexing your comp? |
| 14:31.48 | Vindicator | no :P |
| 14:32.14 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Little Tough love :D |
| 14:35.50 | Vindicator | ooooook no i'm not going to repair my installation because 1.5 removed the repair option .... |
| 14:36.55 | Dustin|WorkAlt | lol |
| 14:36.59 | Dustin|WorkAlt | That sucks |
| 14:37.08 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Gonna have to full reinstall =/ |
| 14:37.15 | TheSkunk__ | The game is supposed to automatically repair (as best as it ever could) when you run it |
| 14:37.19 | TheSkunk__ | with the new luancher |
| 14:37.26 | Dustin|WorkAlt | hmmm |
| 14:37.38 | TheSkunk__ | Not that it will fix your issue, but the old repair didn't always work either |
| 14:37.48 | TheSkunk__ | It basically just redownloaded corrupted files |
| 14:37.54 | TheSkunk__ | not anything too advanced |
| 14:39.51 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I had a cool idea for a 3rd party program for maps, have a little window that reads a maps bank file and displays whatever you want it to, like a character model of your guy and live stats about what's going on in the map |
| 14:43.14 | Monkalizer | problem is that you cant update the bankfile while the game is running |
| 14:43.57 | Monkalizer | if you want to use ingame data I suggest you should use debug files! |
| 14:45.31 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yes you can |
| 14:45.43 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Ive already done this persay |
| 14:45.50 | Dustin|WorkAlt | But I linked up a Bank file to a webserver in real time |
| 14:46.03 | Dustin|WorkAlt | And had a website that displayed my bank data as I was playing the game |
| 14:46.47 | Gwypaas | Problem here lies in "3rd party", such methods in map making tend to fail.... |
| 14:47.05 | Dustin|WorkAlt | You can't write to the bank file, well I mean you can, but the game only reads in the state of a bank at load |
| 14:47.18 | Monkalizer | hm... strange. When I had the file open I could not write to it. How did you solve the handling of file-locking? |
| 14:47.34 | Monkalizer | ah right |
| 14:47.36 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yeah Gwypaas, depends on the added functionaly, if it outweighs having to install and run another program |
| 14:48.17 | Monkalizer | argh! I hate fake liqourice... you expect salty and nice stuff... but then its not! |
| 14:51.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster Blub\w (~wry@93.83.4.189) |
| 15:13.01 | Gwypaas | fucking flying fuck... Galaxy++ compiles everything without errors but when the map loads SC2 complains about a parsing error |
| 15:14.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Telshin (~textual@76.164.170.2) |
| 15:16.25 | Dustin|WorkAlt | That's weird |
| 15:16.33 | Dustin|WorkAlt | probably some preparser error |
| 15:18.10 | Gwypaas | At least I've found the line that fucks up now.... |
| 15:18.14 | Monkalizer | i got those nice errors when I was using eventUnit() in functions that was not triggers... nasty stuff - you get no hint of where it occurs. Had to do abinary search of the entire code set... |
| 15:18.48 | Gwypaas | Well... that is like the way it should work |
| 15:18.54 | Gwypaas | Event unit only works when an event fired it |
| 15:18.55 | Gwypaas | :P |
| 15:19.29 | Gwypaas | So, I wonder if the error ist hat a Trigger cant "attach?" to a timer before it is started.... |
| 15:20.31 | Gwypaas | didndidn't solve it |
| 15:20.54 | Gwypaas | "Scri: Script load failed: Error parasing structure, could be an invalid field or missing } at the end" |
| 15:21.22 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Does galaxy++ add the ability to attach timers to triggerS? |
| 15:21.34 | Exaken | Attach how? |
| 15:21.45 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Prob like vJass did |
| 15:21.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster apwb (~oer894n@c83-248-105-252.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:22.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zolden (58870015@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.135.0.21) |
| 15:22.10 | Gwypaas | No, attach trigger to timer |
| 15:22.13 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Was just commenting on Gwypaas, assumption on the problem |
| 15:22.26 | Gwypaas | Through TriggerAddEventTimer |
| 15:22.31 | Dustin|WorkAlt | So like, when the timer expires it runs the trigger? |
| 15:22.35 | Gwypaas | Yep |
| 15:22.41 | Exaken | oh |
| 15:22.45 | Monkalizer | yeah but good luck finding it among ~50 functions. If you remove the dependent variable some of them reset to eventUnit :) |
| 15:25.14 | Gwypaas | http://pastebin.com/9L0GcJfz |
| 15:25.18 | Gwypaas | That's all code there is... |
| 15:26.16 | Gwypaas | I bet galaxy doesn't like dynamically initializing events >.< |
| 15:27.30 | Gwypaas | So initializing and using a global timer and then starting it at a later time would probably solve it... but that would be a super ugly solution >.< |
| 15:31.45 | Gwypaas | of course it worked |
| 15:31.51 | Gwypaas | I HATE YOU BLIZZARD >.< |
| 15:33.28 | Gwypaas | lets test if its the dynamic initializing or using a local variable.... |
| 15:34.37 | Gwypaas | It's the dynamic initializng >.< |
| 15:39.01 | Gwypaas | now that is even more weird.... |
| 15:39.49 | Gwypaas | hmm |
| 15:42.27 | Gwypaas | I bet the error is that the trigger is created after my function is ran..... |
| 15:42.36 | Gwypaas | although... that should not happen >.< |
| 15:44.42 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Why are you bitching at blizzard, Galaxy++ is a preparser made by a third party :P |
| 15:44.55 | Gwypaas | Because it seemed like a blizzard error |
| 15:45.06 | Gwypaas | if this test still fails then it is because of blizzard |
| 15:45.10 | Gwypaas | and yes it is |
| 15:46.23 | Gwypaas | The setup used to be "initializer -> Run function -> Create timer -> Add event to func that fires when timer done -> Start timer" |
| 15:46.46 | Gwypaas | Now it is "Create a timer that waits 1 second to let the whole fucking map script finish initalizing -> Run function -> Create timer -> Add event to func that fires when timer done -> Start timer" |
| 15:46.49 | Gwypaas | and still same error |
| 15:47.31 | A1win | I seem to recall that events could only be initialized on map load |
| 15:47.42 | Gwypaas | Yep, that must be the conclusion... |
| 15:48.02 | Gwypaas | and with the way timers handled that is horrible design >.< |
| 15:48.10 | Gwypaas | timers are* |
| 15:50.07 | Gwypaas | But i bet this whole super restrict trigger setup is due to the virus business in WC3 so I guess it's good in some ways... |
| 15:53.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRooX (~RipperRoo@p5790287B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:53.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tolkfan (~Thunderbi@host-89-230-244-33.nowydwor.mm.pl) |
| 16:01.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-003-192.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:02.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster ThunderLord (a807edcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.7.237.205) |
| 16:09.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Fate (55b34a21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.74.33) |
| 16:21.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@78.43.3.192) |
| 16:23.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster Monkalizer (53bd94b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.189.148.185) |
| 16:25.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Lajjla (~Lajla@ip51cc146b.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:44.29 | Vindicator | wow, i just got done reinstalling sc2 and i still can't see anything in the data editor, it's literally blank, nothing. all sc2 dependencies are enabled and nothing in my search bars... |
| 16:48.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies_ (53f1057d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.241.5.125) |
| 17:26.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster duckies_ (53f1057d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.241.5.125) |
| 17:28.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jaxsun (60204f25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.32.79.37) |
| 17:55.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Exaken (~kvirc@dhcp-077-251-207-054.chello.nl) |
| 18:17.08 | Jaxsun | is there a way to add a bunch of created units to a unit group? or do i have to do it one by one via last created unit |
| 18:20.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster MonkalizerInFrid (4ddbee5d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.219.238.93) |
| 18:24.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster zenx_ (d918696b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.105.107) |
| 18:26.13 | duckies_ | jaxsun, I think there is a "last created units" specailly for that occation |
| 18:29.47 | A1win | that works if you create multiple units with the same create unit function |
| 18:30.20 | Jaxsun | im searching for that function but i cant seem to find it |
| 18:30.29 | A1win | it's a unit group type function |
| 18:30.38 | A1win | you need to use "add unit group to unit group" instead of add unit to unit group |
| 18:31.14 | Jaxsun | oh i see it now |
| 18:31.19 | Jaxsun | interesting |
| 18:31.21 | Zolden | guys, check new model: http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/33/77/deviator.jpg |
| 18:31.34 | Vindicator | would anyone in here happen to be business savvy enough to be able to help me make a company name into a real thing for a professional mapmaking team? |
| 18:31.38 | Zolden | duckies_: dune 2 unit remake :) |
| 18:32.10 | Jaxsun | thanks alwin and duckies |
| 18:32.34 | A1win | Zolden, the feet seem way too small for a cannon that big ;p |
| 18:32.50 | A1win | shoot once and the vehicle falls on its butt |
| 18:32.54 | Zolden | oh, right :) |
| 18:33.40 | Zolden | wait, no! It shoots missiles, they don't produce kickback |
| 18:33.48 | A1win | oh |
| 18:35.10 | Monkalizer | http://duneii.com/special/#345 for anyone interested in Zoldens work: here are some reference pics |
| 18:35.14 | duckies_ | :O zolden |
| 18:35.19 | duckies_ | now that looks prety cool |
| 18:35.20 | Monkalizer | I was kind of wondering what he was up to :P |
| 18:35.24 | Dustin|WorkAlt | professional map making team? |
| 18:35.26 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Not possible! |
| 18:35.57 | Zolden | Monkalizer: mmm... yea, those guys |
| 18:36.01 | Dustin|WorkAlt | How long have you been working in the Editor Vindicator |
| 18:36.07 | Vindicator | since day 1 |
| 18:36.08 | duckies_ | sadly my only experiecne with dune is being amazed by those tanks that shoot blue beams |
| 18:36.11 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Nice |
| 18:36.20 | Dustin|WorkAlt | If you really want to setup a business |
| 18:36.23 | duckies_ | I did not have the fortune to play that game in my early days :/ |
| 18:36.24 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Look into getting an LLC |
| 18:36.25 | Vindicator | i made a team in dallas texas in february 2010 right before beta came out |
| 18:36.26 | *** join/#sc2mapster Tomura (~Tomura@p54851326.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:37.10 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I'm looking for a group of people with the same range of skills to kinda partner up with, what has your team done? |
| 18:37.44 | Zolden | duckies_: oh, poor you, it was so real for a kid, now it's too late to play, it looks crappy, but music is still the same |
| 18:37.54 | Vindicator | i publish city of tempest (#1 in korea) and mineralz evolution. in 2010, the first project we made was a hotkey trainer, but it never became popular, which is understandable considering it wasn't meant to be fun |
| 18:38.18 | Vindicator | the most impressive stuff i've worked on isn't released though |
| 18:38.24 | duckies_ | I did enjoy c&c 95 a few years ago, so there might still be a chance for me, especially since now I suck less at games |
| 18:38.44 | Vindicator | and also i didn't make mineralz evolution or city of tempest - i fixed city of tempest after 1.5 messed it up and the original creator wasn't around to fix it |
| 18:39.05 | Dustin|WorkAlt | What kinda maps are you wanting to make? |
| 18:40.15 | Zolden | duckies_: there wasn't square of mass selection in dune II, so it's not playable for modern players, unless you like to click 100 times to send an army |
| 18:40.40 | duckies_ | yeah, I've read about it, 1 unit selection :/ |
| 18:41.04 | Vindicator | the short answer is an RPG. we've been working on an RPG for a long time. the stuff we've done is beyond anything you've seen for the most part. SCU is obviously impressive and will shine in its own ways, but there are things we are able to do |
| 18:41.07 | Vindicator | that are far beyond even it |
| 18:41.13 | Zolden | but one day I'll remake it for sc2 |
| 18:41.30 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Im interested, you looking for more talent? |
| 18:41.32 | duckies_ | That will be a glorious day! |
| 18:41.47 | Vindicator | ya sure, i know you've been around for quite some time, what are your strengths in the editor? |
| 18:42.10 | Zolden | but it won't be played, no one would want to dl 20-30 mb of only music |
| 18:42.12 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Triggers/Coding is my main strength |
| 18:42.13 | Dustin|WorkAlt | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXO44LhyD4 |
| 18:42.27 | Dustin|WorkAlt | There's a compilation of some of the maps I've been working on since beta |
| 18:42.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Skizot_ (~skizot@68.200.41.226) |
| 18:43.20 | zenx_ | aoldens models are getting better and better :) |
| 18:43.22 | Jaxsun | alwin, i've finished making triggers that spawn waves of zerglings to attack a point, what should my next exercise be? |
| 18:43.24 | duckies_ | vindi, i'm curious, what kind of rpg you are making? a wow-like sc2 map with strictly one-purpose classes that is meant to bind you to your character and grind 100h for gear and stuff? |
| 18:43.41 | Zolden | zenx_ ty :) |
| 18:44.21 | duckies_ | zolden, I would play a map that had C&C music in it :D and ppl seem to enjoy dia blo, that has full ripped music as well :P |
| 18:44.36 | A1win | Jaxsun, humm... maybe something like sending in different types of units based on time |
| 18:45.03 | Jaxsun | alright, ill give that a shot |
| 18:47.43 | Vindicator | duckies: there's actually 2 RPGs i have in progress, one is a very ambitious 4 player co-op old-school final fantasy style battle RPG with battles that the enemies don't wait for u to input commands |
| 18:48.09 | Vindicator | i'm also working on a pokemon style RPG that's single player now and if successful later installments will be multiplayer |
| 18:48.33 | Vindicator | the pokemon style one will likely be released first and basically be training for the team in doing better on the more ambitious on |
| 18:48.34 | Vindicator | *one |
| 18:48.44 | duckies_ | 2 rpgs at the same time.. that feels draining |
| 18:49.05 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Do you have any artists on the team? |
| 18:49.20 | Vindicator | eh, it's a longer story than i would tell in IRC but the ambitious one is on hold atm |
| 18:49.23 | zenx_ | duckyyy |
| 18:49.32 | Vindicator | ya we have artists |
| 18:49.36 | duckies_ | the ff one, are you constantly stuck in a party or you can split and wonder/battle on your own? |
| 18:49.38 | zenx_ | should I upload rest of my stuff Iv got on my rpg |
| 18:49.40 | duckies_ | zenxuuu |
| 18:49.41 | zenx_ | or leave it as suprise |
| 18:50.09 | Vindicator | duckies: it's like nothing you've seen before. you can split up but you can end up joining allies in battle if they need help |
| 18:50.18 | duckies_ | if you feel like quitting right here and now - upload it, if you feel like you'll be working on it later on, leave it as a surprise ;D |
| 18:50.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Cheekything (~Cheekythi@cpc2-oxfd18-2-0-cust861.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:50.37 | zenx_ | yea Im not sure if I ever will |
| 18:50.39 | zenx_ | allthou |
| 18:50.52 | zenx_ | I think I could try to get motivation once global play comes |
| 18:50.55 | duckies_ | I'm sure I've seen at least something in that spirit vindi :P |
| 18:50.56 | zenx_ | I hope it comes wihout hots too |
| 18:51.18 | duckies_ | making cool maps is not a new concept by any stretch :D |
| 18:51.50 | duckies_ | it's ment as a global upgrade for b-net, so yea, it applies to everything |
| 18:52.20 | duckies_ | though I imagine that wol will eventually become barren after expansion hits |
| 18:52.44 | zenx_ | yea probly |
| 18:52.45 | duckies_ | not that you can find players to play with now >.> |
| 18:53.11 | zenx_ | I still feel like I would like to release this someday |
| 18:53.40 | duckies_ | that is a good aspiration :D |
| 18:55.05 | zenx_ | after all it was playable already |
| 18:55.09 | zenx_ | just needs more of everything |
| 18:55.40 | duckies_ | the usual story then :P |
| 18:56.16 | zenx_ | I still hate that it doesnt feel like you need to work as a team |
| 18:56.27 | zenx_ | I wonder if there could be some way to improve that |
| 18:56.44 | zenx_ | d3 had same problem, it was just anoying to play with people doing different things |
| 18:56.54 | zenx_ | (would help if you could make lobbies with names) |
| 18:56.55 | A1win | yup |
| 18:57.08 | A1win | co-op is difficult to do right |
| 18:57.14 | zenx_ | or perhaps just custom variants for like (lvl5+ or "THIS BOSS" or something) |
| 18:57.27 | duckies_ | one way to force teamwork is making it so hard that it would be nearly impossible to play solo |
| 18:57.32 | Jaxsun | whats the difference between changeling (marine) and normal marine |
| 18:57.35 | Jaxsun | and the rest of the like |
| 18:57.42 | duckies_ | but I really hate games that require multiple people to play :/ |
| 18:57.43 | zenx_ | thats not good either |
| 18:57.45 | duckies_ | *rpg maps |
| 18:57.51 | zenx_ | Ill probly atleast add function to locate other players |
| 18:58.08 | duckies_ | how exactly do you encourage teamwork? |
| 18:58.27 | A1win | the players shouldn't feel like they are being forced to work together either |
| 18:58.41 | A1win | the co-op should be something they *want* to do |
| 18:58.54 | duckies_ | depends on design |
| 18:59.04 | duckies_ | but for his map, that is right:P |
| 18:59.26 | zenx_ | only thing is to encourage teamwork is synergy spells really...but I wonder if I could somehow make it more like "I wana play with those guys, instead of I wana do whatever alone" |
| 18:59.33 | A1win | I mean generally good co-op design should have that |
| 18:59.43 | zenx_ | even thou teamplay is even now more fun with skilled players |
| 19:00.31 | zenx_ | its more of a matter I hate telling people to come help me or like that |
| 19:00.32 | duckies_ | generally good co-op design ... that variant that appeals to most of player base >.> |
| 19:00.37 | zenx_ | they should automatically syncro xD |
| 19:01.11 | zenx_ | perhaps jsut some simple message system |
| 19:01.15 | zenx_ | like "call for help" |
| 19:01.19 | zenx_ | and people can tele to you |
| 19:01.41 | duckies_ | well, right now I feel that it's better for me to go alone, monsters die faster, and I feel less threathened and more in control :/ |
| 19:01.59 | zenx_ | they actually should die faster with more players |
| 19:02.31 | Jaxsun | just make only the boss battles require full party |
| 19:02.41 | duckies_ | there are always heroes and lone wolfs zenx, sometimes you just want to feel the accomplishemnt of doing it on your own, of being self sustained |
| 19:02.42 | zenx_ | noo I dont like that |
| 19:02.58 | zenx_ | I want freedom and encouragement for interaction |
| 19:03.06 | zenx_ | perhaps rewards for teamplay could be one thing too |
| 19:03.24 | zenx_ | single player is ofc option too |
| 19:03.34 | zenx_ | but I would prefer teamplay to be better |
| 19:03.51 | zenx_ | would overal result in more enjoymenet if executed correctly |
| 19:03.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster hobbidude (60338f8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.51.143.140) |
| 19:04.17 | duckies_ | I honestly feel that each player has so many possibilities to just a-move rambo style that he doesn't feel the nead for teammates or support |
| 19:04.29 | zenx_ | I agree |
| 19:04.30 | duckies_ | the only reason to be in party is just to be "nice" |
| 19:04.46 | zenx_ | its hard to balance between teamplay and solo play and have all skills viable |
| 19:05.02 | hobbidude | hey duckies wasn't i talking to you have texture swap by id? |
| 19:05.34 | duckies_ | If I had that problem I would possibly just cut things away from heroes |
| 19:05.49 | duckies_ | we talked about the wonders of texture apply group :D |
| 19:06.15 | hobbidude | ya |
| 19:06.40 | Jaxsun | alwin, i finished the task. i made one trigger to spawn zerglings periodically, another trigger to turn off the zergling spawn trigger after X seconds while simultaneously turning on a trigger to spawn zealots periodically. is there a different way you would have done this? |
| 19:06.55 | duckies_ | that was a useful piece of knowledge I obtained back there, definitely makes things easier for future endeavours |
| 19:07.01 | hobbidude | well i've found a doodad that doesn't have the particular color im looking for and im wondering if its possible to swap it through texture id |
| 19:07.27 | hobbidude | jax it should all be done in one action definition |
| 19:07.41 | duckies_ | I'm sure it's possible :P |
| 19:08.12 | Jaxsun | hobbidude, im new to the editor. would you mind explaining action definition to me? |
| 19:08.32 | Jaxsun | oh wait i think i read about action definition |
| 19:08.32 | hobbidude | its like an action that leads to another action |
| 19:08.43 | Jaxsun | hmm |
| 19:08.51 | Jaxsun | one sec let me make one and look at it |
| 19:08.53 | hobbidude | its allow more flexibility by allowing it to run in its own thread |
| 19:09.09 | hobbidude | you would also want to use loops |
| 19:09.33 | Vindicator | you know when you choose an "action" in a trigger jaxsun? think of all those as action definitions. an action definition allows you to create your own group of actions that do something and end up showing up on the list of actions |
| 19:09.58 | hobbidude | +1 |
| 19:10.20 | Jaxsun | alright thanks |
| 19:10.30 | Jaxsun | ill try to turn all those triggers i made and condense it into one action definition |
| 19:10.48 | hobbidude | yes and use a loop to run the different spawns right after one another |
| 19:11.24 | Jaxsun | would a for loop suffice? |
| 19:11.44 | hobbidude | i was thinking wait or while loop |
| 19:11.54 | hobbidude | how long do you spawn lings for? |
| 19:12.28 | Jaxsun | this is just exercises for me to get more familiar, so i did two spawns of zerglings and then two spawns of zealots |
| 19:12.43 | hobbidude | kk so use a wait for condition |
| 19:13.16 | hobbidude | srry while |
| 19:13.32 | Jaxsun | hmm |
| 19:13.40 | hobbidude | use while a local integer is less than your total number of waves |
| 19:13.53 | hobbidude | spawn ling, mod integer +1, wait 1 sec |
| 19:14.12 | Jaxsun | whoa whoa whoa dont give away the answers too quickly now |
| 19:14.13 | hobbidude | then you can put the zealot one right after |
| 19:18.42 | Jaxsun | where can i find the function if X is < Y AND X < Z |
| 19:18.54 | Jaxsun | oh wait |
| 19:18.57 | Jaxsun | if statement |
| 19:19.30 | hobbidude | if you using an while you don;t need an if then |
| 19:22.09 | Jaxsun | when i spawn the zealots, i dont want the zerglings to also spawn with them |
| 19:22.36 | hobbidude | if you use a while it will wait till it finishes |
| 19:23.25 | hobbidude | it cannot continue till the conditions are met |
| 19:23.30 | Jaxsun | so i made it while waveNum > 2 AND wavNum <= 4 so i make a third wave of some other unit spawn |
| 19:23.44 | Jaxsun | made it so for wavenum 2-4 for zealots |
| 19:23.50 | Jaxsun | and then 4-6 will be something else |
| 19:24.30 | Jaxsun | oh ok |
| 19:24.35 | Jaxsun | i understand what you mean now |
| 19:24.58 | Jaxsun | the spawn zealot 'while loop' will not execute until the spawn zergling 'while loop' completely finishes |
| 19:25.22 | Jaxsun | therefore making the conditions that i've been trying to create not be needed |
| 19:25.49 | hobbidude | easy peazy japanezy |
| 19:25.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster DeadZergling (836bae1d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.174.29) |
| 19:26.10 | Jaxsun | alright im gonna test this document and see if it works |
| 19:26.18 | DeadZergling | any progress Zolden? |
| 19:29.14 | Zolden | DeadZergling: http://www.sc2mapster.com/media/attachments/33/77/deviator.jpg |
| 19:29.19 | Zolden | what you asked for |
| 19:30.14 | DeadZergling | be fun in the data editor making them have the kind of incredibly bad accuracy |
| 19:30.17 | DeadZergling | the originals did |
| 19:30.48 | Zolden | alright |
| 19:31.10 | Zolden | doesn't matter to much in td, but yea |
| 19:31.44 | Jaxsun | it works just fine hobbidude, thanks. i had to put in the action definition into a trigger to make it activate, not sure why though |
| 19:31.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (~Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 19:32.00 | hobbidude | thats correct |
| 19:32.25 | Jaxsun | would you mind explaining why that is |
| 19:32.51 | hobbidude | the action defintion does exactly that. defines a set of actions |
| 19:33.34 | hobbidude | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:34.17 | hobbidude | the real beauty of it comes when you loop mass actions to create things fast or do ai threading |
| 19:34.40 | hobbidude | for instance how would you create a dialog grid of 4x3 buttons? |
| 19:34.54 | Jaxsun | no idea |
| 19:35.21 | hobbidude | kk so how do you create dialog buttons? |
| 19:35.37 | A1win | he's completely new to the editor |
| 19:35.46 | Jaxsun | haha also no idea, im just starting out |
| 19:35.50 | hobbidude | lol |
| 19:35.51 | hobbidude | kk |
| 19:35.58 | DeadZergling | well to put it simpler, Jaxsun |
| 19:36.07 | DeadZergling | let's say you want to do actions, A, B, C, D, E, and F |
| 19:36.21 | hobbidude | things you need to check up on; variables, loops, if then, actions (done), and functions |
| 19:36.26 | DeadZergling | now you could do all the work towards that, or copy paste it a bunch of times |
| 19:36.37 | DeadZergling | or put A, B, C, D, E, and F into an action definition |
| 19:36.43 | DeadZergling | and use that to do it for you |
| 19:36.47 | DeadZergling | whenever you need it done |
| 19:37.02 | DeadZergling | they can do a lot more, but that is just a basic example |
| 19:37.05 | A1win | actions are functions with no return value |
| 19:37.22 | DeadZergling | eh? They can have return values too |
| 19:37.26 | A1win | oh |
| 19:37.37 | A1win | what would they do with those though? |
| 19:37.45 | DeadZergling | best used as void functions though so you don't have to custom script call them every time |
| 19:37.54 | DeadZergling | editor doesn't see void functions |
| 19:37.55 | A1win | that's what I meant |
| 19:37.59 | A1win | they are functions |
| 19:38.14 | A1win | but the editor treats them as "actions" |
| 19:38.16 | DeadZergling | you are java right Jaxsun? |
| 19:38.20 | DeadZergling | you'd know them as methods |
| 19:38.44 | A1win | actions are like void methods in java, and functions like methods with a return type |
| 19:38.53 | Jaxsun | @deadzregling so when making an action definition, you can make it so that it can take different input and you can reuse the action definition to give different outputs each time? |
| 19:39.01 | DeadZergling | correct jaxsun |
| 19:39.07 | A1win | (you could make an action with a return type but then you'd have to use it as a function, which would only be possible by using a custom script) |
| 19:39.13 | DeadZergling | for example, if you still working on a defense map |
| 19:39.27 | DeadZergling | could make an action that takes a unit type |
| 19:39.32 | DeadZergling | and count |
| 19:39.41 | DeadZergling | and just have that spawn your wave for you based on those parameters |
| 19:39.52 | hobbidude | i got a better example |
| 19:40.05 | DeadZergling | screw your dialog buttons hobbi |
| 19:40.08 | DeadZergling | lol |
| 19:40.12 | hobbidude | say you want to spawn these ways of zealots at 6 different points |
| 19:40.40 | Jaxsun | ah ok, i was wondering what the purpose of action definitions were if i could just put in the same actions into one trigger |
| 19:40.52 | DeadZergling | you want to keep your trigger count low Jaxsun |
| 19:41.09 | hobbidude | then there's threading |
| 19:41.13 | Jaxsun | the action definition allows for different input while trigger actions dont? |
| 19:41.13 | A1win | I only use triggers whenever I need an event, and do everything else inside action definitions |
| 19:41.19 | DeadZergling | is fine if you want to add a bunch of events to one trigger then use a case statement to sort t hrough them |
| 19:41.32 | DeadZergling | for example, 10 different effects you are watching for |
| 19:42.09 | DeadZergling | triggers are more how you watch what is happening in your map |
| 19:42.19 | Jaxsun | @hobbidude what is threading? |
| 19:42.31 | DeadZergling | actions/functions etc are what you use to make certain things happen based on what is going on |
| 19:42.53 | DeadZergling | Triggers can do more I know, but is dangerous to mess with them too much |
| 19:43.20 | Jaxsun | @deadzergling so i can essentially make a map spawn 20 waves of 20 different units with only one trigger? |
| 19:43.28 | DeadZergling | correct |
| 19:43.29 | hobbidude | threading allows the actions to continue on doing their own things and let whatever else is in the trigger to do as well |
| 19:43.31 | Jaxsun | or rather it would be best to do that |
| 19:44.10 | DeadZergling | one trigger, one action definition, timer, one global int variable, and either an array of unit types or a big case statement |
| 19:44.17 | DeadZergling | that would about do it |
| 19:44.26 | hobbidude | or function to return |
| 19:44.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster Exaken (~kvirc@dhcp-077-251-207-054.chello.nl) |
| 19:44.54 | Monkalizer | Jaxsun: Normally all actions you do in the trigger and data editor stacks into one huge pile of tasks that the computer completes a couple of times per second. Sometimes you want to make while-loops and such to run in paralell with the normal pile, "in its own pile". Then you check the tread checkboz |
| 19:44.57 | DeadZergling | that too hobbi, but that is personal preference at that point |
| 19:45.29 | hobbidude | yup |
| 19:45.35 | Jaxsun | @hobbidude so by threading i could have say a while loop execute and without waiting for the while loop to finish, it will continue on? |
| 19:45.49 | hobbidude | ya |
| 19:45.58 | hobbidude | the difference would be... |
| 19:46.16 | hobbidude | sending 6 waves one after another vs sending 6 waves instantly together |
| 19:46.24 | Vindicator | Jaxsun: do you understand what the difference is between running a trigger that wait's or doesn't wait until the trigger is complete? if so, that's what the difference between creating a thread or not does |
| 19:46.35 | Vindicator | *waits |
| 19:46.47 | DeadZergling | anyways, I got to go to some company lunch thing |
| 19:46.50 | DeadZergling | take it easy all |
| 19:47.08 | Jaxsun | thanks for all the info deadzergling |
| 19:47.50 | Jaxsun | yeah still reading over what monkalizer and vindicator typed |
| 19:49.03 | hobbidude | jax you know what local and global variable are? |
| 19:49.14 | Jaxsun | yup |
| 19:49.18 | hobbidude | +1 |
| 19:49.32 | Jaxsun | lawl |
| 19:49.51 | Jaxsun | local variables only exist in the trigger and cannot be called from outside ones, or something like that |
| 19:49.56 | Jaxsun | while globals are... global |
| 19:50.00 | hobbidude | yup |
| 19:50.06 | Jaxsun | is that correct? |
| 19:50.13 | hobbidude | correctamundo |
| 19:50.36 | A1win | well, local variables exist only during one instance of a trigger/function |
| 19:51.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Taintedwisp (4bb541ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.181.65.238) |
| 19:51.15 | A1win | like in a programming language you can introduce a variable inside a function and it only exists while that function is running |
| 19:51.18 | Jaxsun | @monkalizer so if i have an action definition with while loops, but i dont want to wait for the while loop to finish before executing the next step i can check the 'Create Thread' checkbox and it will run the while loop and go on to the next step? is that all it takes to thread? |
| 19:51.47 | hobbidude | yes |
| 19:51.55 | Monkalizer | yes |
| 19:52.00 | Jaxsun | mmm |
| 19:52.11 | Jaxsun | @vindicator i dont quite understand what you meant |
| 19:52.50 | hobbidude | you got it already |
| 19:52.58 | Vindicator | ya it sounds like u get it |
| 19:53.21 | Monkalizer | example: i want to count how many units i have in a specific region. I could use a unit enter/leave trigger combination but that will create a lot of calls if many units enter/leave. Instead, i make a while loop that counts all units in the region. But starting an infinite while loop will stop the game. So I make the loop run in its own thread |
| 19:54.10 | Monkalizer | Every now and then the loop throws in a a value to the main thread with a fresh number of how many units there are. |
| 19:54.13 | A1win | Monkalizer, that's not right |
| 19:54.21 | A1win | a thread will also stop the game if it has no waits in it |
| 19:54.37 | Monkalizer | i did not know that |
| 19:54.39 | Jaxsun | by stopping the game does that mean it crashes? |
| 19:54.53 | A1win | no, it gives a "script execution took too long" error |
| 19:54.59 | A1win | and the script stops working |
| 19:55.02 | A1win | game continues |
| 19:55.02 | hobbidude | just needs a .1 sec wait |
| 19:55.09 | Monkalizer | I dont remember, I think it was clever enough to skip that part and continue with the rest |
| 19:55.37 | A1win | the script engine always executes the script as long as possible without caring about any limits during one game frame |
| 19:55.37 | hobbidude | i don;t think so in that thread |
| 19:55.50 | A1win | so you need to manually put in waits |
| 19:56.01 | A1win | if you know that the execution takes too long otherwise |
| 19:56.06 | Exaken | ] |
| 19:56.22 | A1win | one script engine frame is 0.0625 seconds |
| 19:56.53 | A1win | a wait of 0.0 is 0.03125 seconds, which means "twice in a script engine frame" |
| 19:57.03 | A1win | wait 0.0625 is "once in a script engine frame" |
| 19:57.13 | hobbidude | yes |
| 19:57.14 | A1win | and the rest cases are longer than those |
| 19:57.18 | A1win | *the rest of the cases |
| 19:57.20 | hobbidude | .0625 is one loop |
| 19:57.50 | A1win | loop? |
| 19:57.55 | *** join/#sc2mapster Exaken (~kvirc@dhcp-077-251-207-054.chello.nl) |
| 19:57.56 | hobbidude | anything you put least goes up to .0625 |
| 19:58.12 | A1win | no, it goes up to 0.03125 |
| 19:58.23 | hobbidude | ?? |
| 19:58.27 | hobbidude | 0 goes to .0625 |
| 19:58.28 | A1win | but it's checked only every 0.0625 seconds |
| 19:59.01 | A1win | if you have "do A, wait 0, do B wait 0, do C" that's executed in 0.0625 seconds |
| 19:59.56 | A1win | you can try by doing debug message to output Mission Time |
| 20:00.07 | A1win | with wait 0 in between, repeat 10 times |
| 20:00.30 | A1win | you'll get 2x same mission time every second step |
| 20:01.02 | Taintedwisp | lemee ask why you would need less the 6 hundreths of a second anyways :P |
| 20:01.11 | hobbidude | fps |
| 20:01.12 | A1win | lots of reasons :> |
| 20:01.44 | A1win | anyway, if you want to do something "once every game frame", use wait 0.0625, not 0.0 |
| 20:01.56 | A1win | otherwise you end up doing the same thing twice every game frame, wasting cpu |
| 20:02.13 | Vindicator | 0 doesn't go to 0.0625 hobbidude |
| 20:02.37 | hobbidude | yup- i don't use it anyways |
| 20:03.26 | Jaxsun | alright, what should my next task be. i've made waves to attack a point and to send different units every two waves |
| 20:03.49 | Vindicator | ya it's a big difference taintedwisp. 60fps is 0.0166 second increments |
| 20:03.54 | hobbidude | look towards return the unit type based on the wave number |
| 20:04.01 | Taintedwisp | ah |
| 20:04.56 | Taintedwisp | I just thought of an awesome ability :P |
| 20:05.28 | hobbidude | how do i change nic? |
| 20:05.29 | Jaxsun | so create a trigger that occurs whenever waves spawn that will send a message to players stating what unit it is and how many |
| 20:06.08 | Taintedwisp | When the ability is used it teleports the player to any location of his choosing with increased health, Armor, attack speed, and Attack damage, when the buff returns The unit teleports back to his home base or if possible to where-ever he teleported from |
| 20:06.27 | hobbidude | sure but i was thinking of reduce that wave trigger from sending two waves with 2 loops to sending 2 waves with 1 loop |
| 20:07.38 | hobbidude | just for learning sake |
| 20:08.20 | hobbidude | better yet do a boss bar for the players home bases health |
| 20:08.23 | Jaxsun | oh |
| 20:08.35 | Jaxsun | so what you meant by return the unit type |
| 20:09.14 | Jaxsun | is that as my wavenumber variable changes, that will change what units i spawn |
| 20:09.26 | Jaxsun | errm i explained that terribly |
| 20:09.44 | Jaxsun | my unit spawn will change accordingly to the wave number |
| 20:15.07 | hobbidude | basically try to make a system like this: make a loop that creates a wave of units every 3 secs. Each wave must have a specific number of units of specific unit type. |
| 20:15.17 | hobbidude | just for practice |
| 20:16.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Skizot_ (~skizot@68.200.41.226) |
| 20:27.20 | Jaxsun | since hobbidude isnt here, would anyone tell me if this is the correct solution for what he wanted me to do. make a while loop and inside that while loop have a switch and for each case spawn a different unit amount and type |
| 20:27.57 | Jaxsun | and at the end of each case increase a local variable i use to save the wave number |
| 20:33.13 | Monkalizer | it sounds reasonable. and dont forget that wait() |
| 20:41.38 | Jaxsun | i dont fully understand the use of the wait() would you mind explaining it to me |
| 20:42.42 | Monkalizer | wait is a "action" like setVariable. if you call wait(0.2) the program will stop for 0.2 gametime seconds |
| 20:43.37 | Monkalizer | so this means the computer can rest for 0.2 seconds, which is good. The processors can then work with the "big pile" a little more focused. |
| 20:43.58 | Jaxsun | right now im getting an error message come up saying a function/trigger, dont remember which, is taking too long to execute. does the wait() have anything to do with that |
| 20:44.02 | Monkalizer | In your case, if you want the waves to spawn every 3 second, you can set the wait to 3 |
| 20:44.15 | Monkalizer | yep! |
| 20:46.32 | Jaxsun | ah ok |
| 20:46.37 | Jaxsun | i got rid of the error |
| 20:46.49 | Jaxsun | before, i had the wait inside the if statements |
| 20:46.58 | Jaxsun | i brought it out to the while |
| 20:47.15 | Jaxsun | i have yet to turn it into a switch case |
| 20:48.18 | Jaxsun | im gonna take a break, thanks for all the help monkalizer |
| 20:48.30 | Gwypaas | HELLO! |
| 20:48.52 | Monkalizer | ^^ |
| 20:48.59 | Gwypaas | So, what is a good way to learn the data editor the quick way? |
| 20:49.07 | Monkalizer | upgrades |
| 20:49.16 | Monkalizer | they are not dependent on anything, |
| 20:49.20 | Gwypaas | I'm soon done with the trigger foundation the map needs to create more stuff effortlessy and then I need to actually create something to play it with.... |
| 20:49.26 | Monkalizer | and you can tweak them to make cool stuff |
| 20:50.01 | Gwypaas | Ah |
| 20:50.12 | Gwypaas | My map will need a few upgrades so that'll do! |
| 20:50.16 | Monkalizer | its the dependencies that are the greatest hazzle if you ask me, they make the editing less transparent |
| 20:50.38 | Gwypaas | Well, the only dependecies om planning on using is icon, sound and model resources to allow for bigger map size |
| 20:50.59 | Gwypaas | or... maybe |
| 20:51.01 | Gwypaas | I got it the wrong way |
| 20:51.19 | Gwypaas | so, dependencies on mods or dependencies in some other haphazard way in the data editor? |
| 20:54.45 | Monkalizer | dependencies between different data types (that is - different tabs in the data editor) |
| 20:55.01 | Monkalizer | it can be really hard to see how a unit is put together |
| 20:55.04 | Gwypaas | ah |
| 20:55.12 | Monkalizer | a unit is actually an actor - who has a mode, |
| 20:55.15 | Monkalizer | model |
| 20:55.24 | Monkalizer | which has a weapon, but sometimes a turret |
| 20:55.43 | Monkalizer | to add a weapon, you dont push it to the unit, but add the actor to the weapon |
| 20:55.50 | Monkalizer | and so on.... |
| 20:55.53 | Monkalizer | 8( |
| 20:56.20 | Gwypaas | yeah... seems chaotic... |
| 20:56.42 | Gwypaas | Especially the "you can't just copy and paste and except stuff to work" part... |
| 20:57.07 | Monkalizer | forget about that! ^ |
| 20:57.20 | Monkalizer | ^^ but upgrades are nice because its a one-stop-shop |
| 20:57.36 | Monkalizer | you just add the affected unit to a list and what kind of effect it should have |
| 20:58.02 | Monkalizer | like: marine - manipulate health - multiply health by 1.2 |
| 20:58.35 | Gwypaas | That's kinda easy though... |
| 20:58.40 | Gwypaas | That's just how WC3 upgrades worked |
| 20:59.05 | Gwypaas | Although in the end most upgrades tended to be custom coded to allow for more interesting stuff |
| 21:00.39 | Gwypaas | Or.... well, you based the upgrade of an already existing one (like the manipulate health) but that's just like adding that field to an upgrade |
| 21:03.02 | Monkalizer | i never really played warcraft, my first mapping experience was through age of kings years ago :) |
| 21:03.53 | Gwypaas | Ahh, sorry to say I don't even know which game that is :P WC3 mapping is all I've done, and way too much of it... |
| 21:06.35 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I made some sweet shit in WC3 |
| 21:06.59 | Gwypaas | Soo much fun making random spells... |
| 21:06.59 | Monkalizer | it was a rts that was interesting around 2000 i think, but with medieval theme rather than space |
| 21:07.02 | Gwypaas | before my time then :P |
| 21:07.34 | Gwypaas | I made a footmen cannon if I remember right, it created a ring of circling footmen around the hero and then flung them towards the target dealing massive damage, all while making them do retarded animations in the air.... |
| 21:07.50 | Monkalizer | hehe! now my one-day-map is done... sort of |
| 21:08.05 | Monkalizer | ^^ |
| 21:08.34 | Gwypaas | But that was all in Triggers/vJASS since the object editor was way too limited... |
| 21:08.36 | Monkalizer | i just made a mod where you can load a "personal" decal into, and then display it next to your base in a melee game :P |
| 21:08.51 | Monkalizer | then you can move it around if you wish |
| 21:08.57 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Shit was easier and more robust with vJass controlling everything imo |
| 21:09.05 | Gwypaas | custom coding movement running it on 0.025 timers ftw |
| 21:09.10 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Fuck yes |
| 21:09.22 | Dustin|WorkAlt | My entire wc3 map was custom vjass coded |
| 21:09.30 | Dustin|WorkAlt | The only thing the wc3 engine was used for was rendering art |
| 21:09.47 | Gwypaas | I took over a map so everything new and old retarded stuff was vJASS |
| 21:10.03 | Gwypaas | but that map had a loooong string of editors |
| 21:10.16 | Gwypaas | But... we really need a Vexorian for the Galaxy language |
| 21:10.40 | Gwypaas | someone pragmatic enough to not implement every cool idea and then when it's done it's the 100% right way that won't break compability... |
| 21:10.52 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yeah |
| 21:10.55 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I miss Vex |
| 21:11.25 | Gwypaas | Me too.... but then it would be awesome to have the Newgen setup also.... |
| 21:12.13 | Gwypaas | We need the Pitzermike, Pipedream and Vex of SC2 ;) |
| 21:12.54 | Dustin|WorkAlt | hehe ya |
| 21:13.43 | Gwypaas | Too bad all "good" people who created less functional copies of the wc3 stuff left the sc2 community before august 2010 never finishing their development.... |
| 21:19.07 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yaa |
| 21:19.20 | Monkalizer | Zolden: ? |
| 21:19.57 | Zolden | yea? |
| 21:20.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster tordy (4b5dce70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.93.206.112) |
| 21:20.41 | tordy | i love how it says super dota clone v4 in the hots pics preview |
| 21:21.34 | Gwypaas | Isn't that just a nickname for Blizzard Dota? ;) |
| 21:22.00 | Monkalizer | Zolden: if a model has a alpha image loaded, and a model as well as a diffuse image, but only the diffuse image is showing (the image is not transparent...) what could the error be? |
| 21:22.18 | tordy | nah it ws like rank 4 in popularityy |
| 21:22.21 | tordy | couldnt be |
| 21:23.08 | Zolden | "alpha image loaded" = model has alpha map in its material? |
| 21:23.26 | Monkalizer | yes |
| 21:23.30 | Monkalizer | or alpha image |
| 21:24.01 | Zolden | first, set material's "cutout" parameter to >0, for example 1 |
| 21:24.44 | Zolden | it will make the areas where alpha is black - transparent |
| 21:25.20 | Monkalizer | ohp! found it, I had checked alpha as team color! |
| 21:25.28 | Monkalizer | thx anyway ^^ |
| 21:25.28 | Zolden | if you you use diffuse map as alpha map, check "render alpha only" alpha map's property |
| 21:26.02 | Zolden | u sure it will work? |
| 21:26.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (442ccc3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.44.204.59) |
| 21:26.10 | Bounty | How can i have a unit die when it deals damage? |
| 21:26.14 | Bounty | in data |
| 21:26.17 | Zolden | it's tricky, last time i failed trying to make the model semitransparent |
| 21:26.35 | A1win | Bounty, combat response, position: attacker ? |
| 21:26.35 | Monkalizer | hm will see |
| 21:26.35 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Bounty |
| 21:26.36 | Zolden | Bounty: there is a Suicide effect |
| 21:26.47 | A1win | for a behavior that is |
| 21:27.02 | Bounty | where Zolden? |
| 21:27.13 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Set the damage effect to use a set and have another damage effect that effects caster |
| 21:27.14 | Zolden | amongst the effects |
| 21:27.25 | Bounty | ok and? |
| 21:27.27 | Bounty | how do i fire it |
| 21:27.30 | Bounty | when it deals damage lol |
| 21:27.32 | A1win | oh yeah or you can do that |
| 21:27.40 | Zolden | waht dustin said :) |
| 21:27.46 | A1win | but it'd be easier with a behavior if it has more than just one damage effect |
| 21:27.46 | Zolden | but use suicide on caster |
| 21:27.47 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Is not an instant damage? |
| 21:27.56 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Either way |
| 21:28.02 | Dustin|WorkAlt | It will work |
| 21:28.20 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Cause as soon as that damage effect set triggers, both will be executed. |
| 21:28.26 | Bounty | the unit deals damage via a behavior |
| 21:28.28 | Bounty | so |
| 21:28.31 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Ohhh |
| 21:28.41 | A1win | give the unit a behavior, set the behavior's damage response chance to 1, damage response position to attacker (from defender), and damage response exhausted effect to suicide |
| 21:28.58 | Bounty | will that work for what i just said A1win |
| 21:29.17 | A1win | I'd think so since the source is that unit |
| 21:29.22 | A1win | not sure though |
| 21:29.28 | Dustin|WorkAlt | That should trigger off damage from the behavior |
| 21:29.34 | A1win | but if not, then make the behavior that does the damage also kill the unit |
| 21:29.47 | Bounty | how? |
| 21:29.52 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:29.56 | A1win | find the behavior's damage effect |
| 21:30.04 | A1win | replace it with a Set effect |
| 21:30.09 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Ok Bounty, is this for your gnolls vs trolls |
| 21:30.10 | A1win | that does the damage effect, and a suicide effect |
| 21:30.16 | Zolden | make behavior's effect of Set type, and include damage and suicide to that set |
| 21:30.34 | Zolden | damamge to target, suicide to caster |
| 21:30.43 | Bounty | its a constant damage |
| 21:30.53 | A1win | "Set" in this sense means "a bunch of effects", not to be confused with setting a variable or such |
| 21:30.55 | Bounty | like |
| 21:31.04 | Bounty | the damage runs every 0.0625 seconds |
| 21:31.10 | Bounty | so when it hits someone |
| 21:31.14 | Bounty | it needs to kill the unit |
| 21:31.18 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Well when it runs once itll kill the caster |
| 21:31.26 | Bounty | yeah i dont want that |
| 21:31.34 | Dustin|WorkAlt | What do you want then? |
| 21:31.34 | Bounty | i want it to run after the damage has been dealt to something |
| 21:31.40 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yeah |
| 21:31.41 | A1win | try that damage response behavior |
| 21:31.45 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Itll deal damage and then kill |
| 21:31.47 | A1win | I'm pretty sure it should work |
| 21:32.06 | Zolden | let caster deas Allpy behavior instead of Damage. The applied behavior will have Set as effect. THe set will have damage to caster and suicide to orighn |
| 21:32.35 | Bounty | is there a way to just make a validator? |
| 21:32.36 | Zolden | but try A1win's one first |
| 21:32.45 | Bounty | that detects when a unit has dealt damage |
| 21:32.55 | A1win | that's what the damage response is for |
| 21:32.57 | Bounty | and i can just make the behavior be removed and its finale effect be suicide |
| 21:32.58 | A1win | just use it :P |
| 21:33.08 | Bounty | i dont see it |
| 21:33.15 | Bounty | the name of the behavior is damage response? |
| 21:33.16 | A1win | Buff behavior |
| 21:33.27 | A1win | it has damage response fields |
| 21:33.35 | Zolden | A1win: damage responce reacts if a unit recieves damage, right? not if it deals damage |
| 21:33.42 | A1win | Zolden, you can change that |
| 21:33.49 | Zolden | oh, cool |
| 21:33.50 | A1win | by changing the position from Defender to Attacker |
| 21:33.57 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Thats cool |
| 21:33.59 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I didnt know that |
| 21:34.12 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I need to rework my thorns ability now lol |
| 21:34.17 | A1win | hehe |
| 21:34.21 | Bounty | so i just change the Location from defender to attacker? |
| 21:34.27 | A1win | yeah |
| 21:34.34 | Bounty | n thats it? lol |
| 21:34.40 | A1win | well give it chance of 1 instead of 0 |
| 21:34.53 | Dustin|WorkAlt | And make the effect |
| 21:34.55 | A1win | and set the exhausted effect to suicide |
| 21:34.57 | Dustin|WorkAlt | That kills the unit |
| 21:35.14 | Bounty | wait which one am i changing |
| 21:35.18 | Bounty | there are like 5 of these fucking things |
| 21:35.20 | Bounty | that say location |
| 21:35.21 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:35.23 | A1win | :x |
| 21:35.33 | A1win | let me check |
| 21:35.55 | Bounty | but yeah Dustin this is optimization for Gnolls VS Trolls |
| 21:35.58 | Bounty | :) |
| 21:36.07 | Bounty | no more trigger based projectile hit detection |
| 21:36.22 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Nice :D |
| 21:36.34 | A1win | Combat: Damage Response - Chance: 1 |
| 21:36.38 | A1win | Combat: Damage Response - Location: Attacker |
| 21:37.00 | Bounty | and which exhaust effect |
| 21:37.03 | A1win | Combat: Damage Response - Exhausted: some suicide effect |
| 21:37.19 | A1win | I don't see more than one |
| 21:37.35 | Bounty | i had it in combine view |
| 21:37.36 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:37.39 | A1win | :x |
| 21:38.06 | A1win | I'm not 100% sure this will work from damage that comes from a behavior on the unit though |
| 21:38.22 | Dustin|WorkAlt | The behaviors know where they came from though |
| 21:38.30 | Dustin|WorkAlt | If applied right from the source unit |
| 21:38.34 | Bounty | trying it now |
| 21:38.36 | Dustin|WorkAlt | so I mean technically it should be fine |
| 21:38.56 | Dustin|WorkAlt | If blizzards shit works the way it should hehe |
| 21:39.01 | A1win | mm |
| 21:39.16 | Bounty | nope |
| 21:39.17 | Bounty | not working |
| 21:39.24 | A1win | hmm |
| 21:39.30 | A1win | and the unit does have the behavior? ;p |
| 21:39.35 | Bounty | yeah |
| 21:39.36 | Dustin|WorkAlt | How are you applying hte behavior that damages |
| 21:39.43 | Bounty | it spawns with the unit |
| 21:39.58 | Bounty | pre placed in the units data |
| 21:40.25 | Dustin|WorkAlt | the one that's actually doing the initial damage to the target unit? |
| 21:40.40 | Bounty | what? |
| 21:40.43 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:40.59 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Ok so |
| 21:41.39 | A1win | just look at how banelings are done? |
| 21:41.53 | A1win | except that it's not a periodic thing |
| 21:41.55 | A1win | mmh |
| 21:42.19 | A1win | use a search area instead of search damage? |
| 21:42.27 | A1win | that way it'll only work when it finds something |
| 21:42.47 | Dustin|WorkAlt | you have Unit A and Unit B, Unit A attacks B and applies Behavior A, which damages Unit B, once this occurs Behavior B does the leg work and kills Unit A |
| 21:42.48 | Bounty | i just use standard aoe damage effect atm |
| 21:42.49 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Is that right? |
| 21:42.50 | Bounty | to search lol |
| 21:43.04 | Bounty | not even close Dustin |
| 21:43.09 | A1win | yeah use a Search Area that applies a targeted damage effect to units it finds |
| 21:43.13 | Bounty | Projectile Starts off wit hthe behavior on it |
| 21:43.22 | Dustin|WorkAlt | OH |
| 21:43.22 | Bounty | and the behavior periodically does damage around the projectile |
| 21:43.27 | A1win | and suicide to caster (which will then only work if it finds something with the search) |
| 21:43.28 | Bounty | i have a trigger that kills the projectile atm |
| 21:43.41 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Easy as fuuuuuuck |
| 21:44.04 | A1win | why does it even do damage periodically if it's only supposed to do it once :P |
| 21:44.44 | Bounty | idk |
| 21:44.48 | Bounty | i dont use data |
| 21:44.49 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:44.51 | Dustin|WorkAlt | You should have a Search effect on the missile, if it finds something, damage and kill itself |
| 21:44.52 | A1win | hehe |
| 21:45.05 | A1win | yup, what I just said o: |
| 21:45.09 | Bounty | walk me through this |
| 21:45.13 | Bounty | i have the search area |
| 21:45.17 | Bounty | with the correct area |
| 21:45.19 | Bounty | now what |
| 21:45.19 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Just attach a behavior to the unit type that has a search effect area |
| 21:45.24 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Ok |
| 21:45.29 | Bounty | i dont know what any of this stuff means in data lol |
| 21:45.42 | Dustin|WorkAlt | lol, its not to hard once you grasp the concept in data |
| 21:45.48 | Dustin|WorkAlt | But at first It's confusing |
| 21:45.51 | Bounty | yeah |
| 21:46.04 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Im gonna write a little blurb about how to do it real fast |
| 21:46.18 | Bounty | just tell me what these entries mean |
| 21:46.25 | Bounty | which one do i need to put the damage effect in |
| 21:46.29 | Bounty | and which one do i put the suicide in |
| 21:46.38 | A1win | Search: Areas - Effect |
| 21:46.47 | A1win | and I think Search: Minimum Count should be 1 |
| 21:47.06 | A1win | wait |
| 21:47.10 | A1win | you need that Set effect |
| 21:47.18 | Bounty | ... |
| 21:47.19 | A1win | that has both the damage and the suicide in it |
| 21:47.25 | Bounty | laame |
| 21:47.30 | A1win | you can only apply one effect per field usually |
| 21:47.36 | Dustin|WorkAlt | A Set effect is just an effect that runs multiple effects at once |
| 21:47.38 | Bounty | god damn data is very inefficient time wise |
| 21:47.39 | A1win | set combines multiple effects into one |
| 21:47.40 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:47.46 | A1win | yeah ;p |
| 21:48.00 | Bounty | is this even worth it |
| 21:48.01 | Bounty | lol |
| 21:48.08 | Dustin|WorkAlt | BOunty, omfg is it |
| 21:48.28 | Bounty | like is it going to really give the game a performance increase and less chance of lag? |
| 21:48.34 | A1win | yeah I'd make these things with data even though I do most stuff with triggers |
| 21:48.43 | A1win | not really |
| 21:48.53 | Dustin|WorkAlt | For the projectiles it might make a small improvement |
| 21:49.07 | Dustin|WorkAlt | But not too much |
| 21:49.08 | A1win | depends on how much spam there is from other things |
| 21:49.15 | A1win | or how many of these you have |
| 21:49.24 | Dustin|WorkAlt | If you had like 200 units running around shooting shit, then ya I could see it boosting performance |
| 21:49.51 | ThunderLord | Ugh why does the editor find it necessay to just shut itself down whenever i modify the mapfiles of the map it has open? |
| 21:50.26 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Because you touch yourself at night. |
| 21:50.38 | ThunderLord | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 21:50.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster Telshin (~textual@76.164.170.2) |
| 21:51.14 | Gwypaas | A "small" question. What is the best way to start learning the dat editor? |
| 21:51.18 | Gwypaas | data* |
| 21:51.22 | Bounty | Also has it been confirmed that having one big trigger with a vague event is better than many small triggers with specific events? |
| 21:51.49 | Gwypaas | Monkalizer suggested upgrades but I'd like more input :P |
| 21:51.51 | Bounty | btw this shit isnt working |
| 21:51.54 | Bounty | with the search area |
| 21:52.08 | Bounty | oh wait nvm |
| 21:52.11 | Bounty | forgot to set it to the set |
| 21:52.13 | Bounty | whoopsie |
| 21:52.28 | A1win | easy to make mistakes with data editor :| |
| 21:52.29 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Put your damage effect before the suicide effect |
| 21:52.30 | Dustin|WorkAlt | in that set |
| 21:53.05 | A1win | and Bounty I'm pretty sure the more specific events also get fired, then they just fail to those specifics... so all of them might be firing every time one of them fires |
| 21:53.28 | Bounty | ok so |
| 21:53.30 | A1win | but not really confirmed how exactly it works |
| 21:53.32 | Bounty | Unit takes any damage |
| 21:53.34 | Bounty | is better then |
| 21:53.42 | Bounty | 30 Unit takes (insert name) damage |
| 21:54.15 | A1win | isn't that just "any", "fatal", or "non-fatal"? |
| 21:54.41 | A1win | or what do you mean by name |
| 21:55.30 | A1win | I guess it could be tested by making an insane amount of events and only set one of them so that it passes |
| 21:56.01 | A1win | not sure where it'd show evidence of it though... |
| 21:56.32 | A1win | maybe if there's enough events it could be noticed as actual lag :x |
| 21:56.44 | Bounty | i think im just gonna stick to what i know lol |
| 21:56.51 | A1win | hehe |
| 21:56.53 | Bounty | and optimize it |
| 21:56.57 | Bounty | that might be the problem |
| 21:57.01 | Bounty | i really didnt optimize nething |
| 21:57.12 | Bounty | i have like 30 "Unit Takes Damage" triggers lol |
| 21:57.16 | A1win | x> |
| 21:57.17 | Dustin|WorkAlt | lmao |
| 21:57.19 | Bounty | but |
| 21:57.23 | Bounty | they have specific effects |
| 21:57.32 | Bounty | ill just thread it |
| 21:57.36 | Bounty | with 1 trigger |
| 21:57.38 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Well you can have a switch/case |
| 21:57.43 | Bounty | yeah |
| 21:57.53 | Bounty | but i assumed that conditions take logner to execute |
| 21:57.56 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Which would be better imo and cleaner |
| 21:58.02 | A1win | if you're checking damage from all effects anyway, then using just one trigger would be the safest bet |
| 21:58.03 | Bounty | so i figured having a specific event would be faster |
| 21:58.16 | Bounty | so it wouldnt have to check nething |
| 21:58.49 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I could see shit getting bottlenecked that way |
| 21:59.04 | Bounty | so ill just move everythign to one beastly trigger that fires a threaded AD? |
| 21:59.20 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yeah I think thatd be best |
| 21:59.23 | A1win | no need to be threaded |
| 21:59.27 | A1win | the trigger itself is threaded alraedy |
| 21:59.29 | A1win | *raedy |
| 21:59.31 | Dustin|WorkAlt | ^ |
| 21:59.31 | A1win | x_X |
| 21:59.33 | A1win | *already |
| 21:59.48 | Bounty | i was told create thread helps avoid bottleneck |
| 21:59.51 | Bounty | if the trigger is firing alot |
| 21:59.56 | Bounty | which it will be firing a SHIT ton |
| 21:59.57 | A1win | I don't think so |
| 22:00.16 | A1win | trigger creates a new thread every time it fires anyway |
| 22:00.25 | Bounty | really? |
| 22:00.36 | A1win | so if you make it fire an action that is also threaded, then it just ends up creating two threads instead of one |
| 22:00.39 | A1win | yes |
| 22:00.43 | A1win | why wouldn't it :P |
| 22:01.06 | Bounty | I guess i should do the same for keypresses? |
| 22:01.13 | A1win | you can even see them in the Threads tab of the debugger |
| 22:01.17 | Bounty | i have 2 seperate mouse click up and down triggers |
| 22:01.21 | Bounty | for right and left |
| 22:01.27 | A1win | mm |
| 22:01.35 | Taintedwisp | laggy editor |
| 22:01.45 | Dustin|WorkAlt | That should be fine Bounty |
| 22:02.07 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Because Mouse/Keyboard events can cause network congestion |
| 22:02.28 | Dustin|WorkAlt | So running it only for a left or right click and discluding any other button presses should be fine |
| 22:02.43 | A1win | eeh |
| 22:02.46 | Bounty | what about if i make action definitions without creating its own thread? |
| 22:02.48 | Bounty | is that ok? |
| 22:02.48 | Dustin|WorkAlt | that way the event isn't fireing when someone presses Mouse Button 3, etc |
| 22:02.59 | Dustin|WorkAlt | But I dont know if SC2 even reggisters those extra mouse buttons |
| 22:03.01 | A1win | why would it be like that for mouse triggers and not for the damage triggers |
| 22:03.30 | A1win | you're contradicting yourself (and the earlier disussion) |
| 22:03.32 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Because damage triggers are done differently than input triggers as far as im aware |
| 22:03.39 | A1win | ._o |
| 22:03.58 | A1win | how are you aware of that? |
| 22:04.30 | Dustin|WorkAlt | From what I've read in regards to the discussion of Input events |
| 22:04.46 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Damage events fire server side |
| 22:05.02 | A1win | ohh |
| 22:05.04 | A1win | right |
| 22:05.04 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Where as input has to come from client, to server and then sent to everyone else |
| 22:05.45 | A1win | which is why input events lag so much more than other kinds of events |
| 22:05.58 | A1win | *which is also why |
| 22:06.39 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yup |
| 22:07.04 | Gwypaas | They don't lag, they just take time to be synchroized and be executed |
| 22:07.08 | Dustin|WorkAlt | So keeping those events to a minnimum helps a lot keeping input lag down |
| 22:07.17 | A1win | Gwypaas, that's what lag means |
| 22:07.20 | A1win | takes time :P |
| 22:07.31 | Dustin|WorkAlt | lol ya :P |
| 22:07.32 | Gwypaas | Well, depends on what kind, most people refer to lag as slowdowns |
| 22:07.44 | Gwypaas | aka, 30 fps -> 10 fps |
| 22:07.47 | A1win | uh |
| 22:07.49 | Gwypaas | :P |
| 22:07.51 | Gwypaas | well |
| 22:07.52 | Gwypaas | either way |
| 22:08.01 | A1win | lag has meant network lag from the beginning of time |
| 22:08.06 | Gwypaas | right... |
| 22:08.07 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I call that Frame Lag |
| 22:08.08 | Gwypaas | bah |
| 22:08.09 | A1win | then at some point people started calling performance drops "lag" |
| 22:08.11 | Dustin|WorkAlt | And Lag is jsut network |
| 22:08.12 | Gwypaas | im too slow |
| 22:08.13 | Skaft | fps lag yeah |
| 22:08.48 | A1win | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag :P |
| 22:09.06 | Gwypaas | But that also means for input that the slowest player on the server determines that input lag? |
| 22:09.26 | Gwypaas | Or, is it jsut event player -> server? |
| 22:10.00 | A1win | the slowest player on the server determins the speed of the game, but there is an inherent 125ms latency, so if everyone is below that, the game runs at top speed |
| 22:10.12 | A1win | if someone lags behind that, you get those "x is slowing down the game" popups |
| 22:10.18 | Gwypaas | why did blizz create a 125 ms latency AGAIN..... |
| 22:10.38 | A1win | they wanted everything to be synchronized |
| 22:10.58 | Dustin|WorkAlt | So people wouldnt have a leg over the other |
| 22:11.04 | Dustin|WorkAlt | since it's esports |
| 22:11.22 | Gwypaas | In wc3 stuff could be kept synced without lagspikes for EU / NA servers using ~50 ms latency... |
| 22:11.41 | Dustin|WorkAlt | WC3 also didn't have a physics engine |
| 22:11.47 | Gwypaas | True |
| 22:12.08 | Gwypaas | But why should that add overhead to the latency? |
| 22:12.53 | A1win | WC3 didn't have hundreds of zerglings |
| 22:13.12 | Gwypaas | There were maps with hundreds of units... |
| 22:13.17 | Dustin|WorkAlt | There's alot of data to sync |
| 22:13.24 | Dustin|WorkAlt | They need some kind of buffer |
| 22:13.38 | Bounty | So im thinking |
| 22:13.52 | Bounty | i make each unit have a behavior |
| 22:13.55 | Bounty | like |
| 22:13.57 | Bounty | IsWarrior |
| 22:14.02 | Bounty | so i dont have to check all 8 unit types |
| 22:14.11 | A1win | yeah I'd do that too |
| 22:14.13 | Bounty | instead i can just check the 5 behaviors |
| 22:14.22 | Bounty | bc the gnolls and trolls are technically diff units lol |
| 22:14.25 | A1win | since we don't have custom unit flags |
| 22:14.29 | Bounty | then i just check the damage types they can use |
| 22:14.33 | Bounty | makes sense right? |
| 22:14.49 | Bounty | the blood effects ill just put into a action definition so i dont have to copy paste it all the time |
| 22:16.04 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Well |
| 22:16.36 | Dustin|WorkAlt | You could use my Unit Indexing library and assign values to units |
| 22:16.42 | Dustin|WorkAlt | But behaviors would probably be easier |
| 22:16.58 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Esp if you're validating with data instead of triggers |
| 22:19.13 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Man I wish they had thought to include ap lugin engine into Galaxy |
| 22:19.36 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Then I could just write cool shit that interfaces with the editor, like custom unit fields and crap |
| 22:21.09 | Dustin|WorkAlt | brb smoke break |
| 22:24.10 | Gwypaas | What document dependecies are the good ones to have? |
| 22:25.27 | A1win | should only have one |
| 22:26.28 | A1win | multiplayer has the least stuff in it, campaign has almost everything, and story has everything that campaign has plus some of the story mode stuff like tech upgrades and such |
| 22:27.01 | A1win | campaign takes a lot more time to load than multiplayer, since it has much more assets in it |
| 22:27.21 | Gwypaas | So.... for easy mapping for a beginner in the data editor, which to choose? |
| 22:27.51 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Multiplayer |
| 22:27.58 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Unless you want the extra data/art assests |
| 22:29.24 | Gwypaas | Ill start with multiplayer and then see if I need anything |
| 22:29.25 | Gwypaas | thanks! |
| 22:32.32 | *** part/#sc2mapster G0A (~hookah604@adsl-167-235.globonet.hu) |
| 22:32.55 | Taintedwisp | WOW is there a way to rotate a building like the Barracks? |
| 22:33.29 | Dustin|WorkAlt | ? |
| 22:33.38 | Dustin|WorkAlt | What do you mean |
| 22:33.54 | Taintedwisp | well some buildings just wont rotate... |
| 22:33.58 | Taintedwisp | is there a way to enable rotation? |
| 22:34.04 | A1win | Turnable flag |
| 22:34.04 | Taintedwisp | in the editor |
| 22:34.07 | Dustin|WorkAlt | ^ |
| 22:34.09 | A1win | on the unit |
| 22:34.15 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Unit Flags |
| 22:34.36 | A1win | or you can change default rotation... somewhere |
| 22:34.36 | Taintedwisp | :P thanks |
| 22:34.57 | Dustin|WorkAlt | Yeah default rotation is on the unit itself |
| 22:35.03 | Dustin|WorkAlt | If I recall correctly |
| 22:35.21 | A1win | yeah should be since the rotation is on the unit :x |
| 22:35.27 | A1win | can't really be anywhere else |
| 22:43.35 | Taintedwisp | There it is finished |
| 22:43.44 | Dustin|WorkAlt | 15 minutes :D ready to gooo home |
| 22:58.32 | Dustin|WorkAlt | I am heading home :D |
| 23:03.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster Triceron (1854e5d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.84.229.210) |
| 23:11.21 | Taintedwisp | Hey Quick Question |
| 23:11.30 | Taintedwisp | How do i switch to a new camera in triggers |
| 23:13.25 | Exaken | Apply camera object |
| 23:13.51 | Taintedwisp | thanks |
| 23:16.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster XenoX101 (XenoX101@ppp118-209-76-216.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 23:23.44 | Taintedwisp | There |
| 23:23.47 | Taintedwisp | http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x171/11shadowwolf/Terrain060.jpg |
| 23:24.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster EnexyNunu (48c02a9e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.192.42.158) |
| 23:26.37 | DeadZergling | hey a1win, you still there? |
| 23:26.51 | A1win | yeah |
| 23:27.19 | DeadZergling | so I've decided after reading up on threads more, I don't get them or understand their uses, I typically use timers... |
| 23:28.23 | A1win | thread just means the instance of the function is executed independently of the code where it was called from |
| 23:29.15 | DeadZergling | I'm sure that is clear to some, not so much to me |
| 23:29.18 | A1win | if you have actions A; B; C; and B is threaded, the execution goes like this: start executing A, wait until A is executed, start executing B, start executing C, wait until C is executed |
| 23:29.50 | DeadZergling | so if, A, B, C are all threaded |
| 23:30.06 | DeadZergling | they will all try to execute at the same time? |
| 23:30.29 | A1win | yeah, though in galaxy script they might still go in that order unless there are waits somewhere |
| 23:30.43 | A1win | but generally in threads, the order in which they are executed is not deterministic |
| 23:31.37 | DeadZergling | i dunno, sounds like threads are a great way to bring chaos to order |
| 23:31.38 | A1win | they might sometimes go in one order and sometimes in another... but in galaxy the threads are not threads for the processor, but threads for the script engine |
| 23:31.42 | A1win | hehe |
| 23:31.48 | A1win | you just need to know what you're doing |
| 23:32.03 | A1win | I mean |
| 23:32.08 | A1win | I don't think they are that difficult to use |
| 23:32.47 | DeadZergling | I'm just having a much easier time seeing potential thread issues |
| 23:32.51 | A1win | what does timers got to do with this though? |
| 23:32.56 | DeadZergling | rather than seeing why I should use them |
| 23:33.12 | DeadZergling | Like if I want a map to save banks every 5 seconds |
| 23:33.22 | DeadZergling | I just use a recurring 5 second timer |
| 23:33.26 | A1win | when a trigger event is fired, that trigger automatically becomes a thread |
| 23:33.33 | DeadZergling | that does all the saves when that timer goes off |
| 23:34.02 | A1win | I'd just have a repeat forever loop with a 5 sec wait |
| 23:34.20 | A1win | no difference at all but much cleaner |
| 23:34.34 | DeadZergling | I'm nervous about using waits, won't that lock the whole system up? |
| 23:34.38 | A1win | no |
| 23:34.44 | A1win | they just lock that thread |
| 23:34.46 | DeadZergling | at least waits sure did that in BW |
| 23:35.36 | A1win | your periodic timer also uses threads, you just apparently don't know about it :P |
| 23:36.00 | DeadZergling | timers make sense to me, threads not so much |
| 23:36.15 | A1win | you should try to make some sens of them then |
| 23:36.27 | A1win | it's not that complicated and it helps a lot to grasp it |
| 23:36.30 | DeadZergling | what you think I'm having this conversation for, lol |
| 23:36.35 | A1win | hehe |
| 23:36.43 | A1win | so what do you still not get? |
| 23:36.58 | A1win | well, another example |
| 23:39.12 | A1win | A is an action that is not threaded and has "Wait 5 seconds; display 'A' as debug message" in it, B is an action that is threaded and has "Wait 5 seconds; display 'B' as debug message" in it, then you do: A; B; A; B; and what happens is that in 5 seconds, 'A' is displayed, then B starts executing and the next A starts executing, and in 5 sec you see 'B' and 'A' at the same time, and then the last B starts executing and after 5 sec another 'B' is ... |
| 23:39.18 | A1win | ... displayed |
| 23:40.22 | A1win | like let's say you have a bit chain of actions and somewhere in there you want a unit to be spawned after 5 seconds, you can just call a threaded action from there that has "wait 5; spawn unit" |
| 23:40.48 | A1win | and the rest of that action chain can keep going without waiting |
| 23:41.07 | A1win | * big chain |
| 23:41.54 | DeadZergling | that makes some sense, I just don't get how it decides to multithread |
| 23:42.03 | DeadZergling | or how it starts |
| 23:42.18 | A1win | what do you mean decides? |
| 23:42.42 | DeadZergling | just how it works at all, it makes no sense to me |
| 23:42.47 | A1win | :E |
| 23:42.55 | DeadZergling | I'm comfortable with line by line execution |
| 23:43.06 | A1win | you just have multiple lines |
| 23:43.08 | DeadZergling | B cannot happen until A finishes |
| 23:43.14 | DeadZergling | etc etc |
| 23:43.19 | DeadZergling | but threads vex the hell out of me |
| 23:43.23 | A1win | :P |
| 23:43.40 | DeadZergling | I understand that last example, but not the why |
| 23:44.08 | A1win | the script engine simply executes each thread as a separate line by line execution every game frame |
| 23:44.39 | A1win | like you have two computers that are both doing line by line execution |
| 23:44.50 | A1win | that's like having two threads |
| 23:45.18 | A1win | and of course the *processor* is doing line by line execution all the time, the trick is that it alternates which line it is executing |
| 23:45.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster Taintedwisp (4bb541ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.181.65.238) |
| 23:45.32 | A1win | I mean, each processor core is doing line by line execution |
| 23:45.52 | Taintedwisp | I tried to stop... but it started to bug me... So I made some alterations to that previous terrain |
| 23:45.52 | Taintedwisp | http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x171/11shadowwolf/Terrain061.jpg |
| 23:46.17 | A1win | but it's less complicated in galaxy since it's not creating actual threads for the processor, it handles the threads itself |
| 23:46.58 | A1win | so let's say you have two threads, each one has a repeat forever loop with ten "spawn 1 unit" actions and then "wait 0.0625" |
| 23:47.05 | A1win | you start executing those threads |
| 23:47.26 | A1win | it spawns the ten units from one thread, then the ten units from the other thread, then waits for 0.0625 seconds for each thread (one game frame), then does the same again |
| 23:47.43 | A1win | the order might change at random, depending on how the script engine is implemented |
| 23:48.26 | A1win | the simlest way is to just imagine that they are being executed at the same time |
| 23:48.33 | A1win | *simplest |
| 23:48.36 | A1win | even though they actually aren't |
| 23:48.57 | DeadZergling | That seems contradictory though. |
| 23:49.10 | DeadZergling | Thought the idea of multithreading was to perform several tasks at once. |
| 23:49.15 | DeadZergling | Multithreading is a lie? |
| 23:49.24 | A1win | no |
| 23:49.31 | A1win | well, in galaxy it is |
| 23:49.45 | A1win | but in real programming it's not since processors can have multiple cores |
| 23:50.00 | A1win | but even in galaxy it doesn't hurt to think like that |
| 23:50.10 | A1win | because it just means that those things get executed during the same game frame |
| 23:50.31 | A1win | and all you need to do is make sure you aren't trying to rely on them being executed in some specific order |
| 23:51.16 | DeadZergling | well I heard there is a way around that |
| 23:51.21 | DeadZergling | using critical or something |
| 23:51.43 | A1win | yeah true, not sure how exactly that works though |
| 23:51.52 | A1win | but I haven't found any use for it so far |
| 23:52.13 | A1win | in actual multithreading it means that it executes those commands without doing anything in other threads while that |
| 23:52.21 | A1win | but I don't think it does that in galaxy anyway... though I could be wrong |
| 23:52.39 | A1win | might be wrong since why else would there be that critical segment thing |
| 23:52.44 | DeadZergling | confusion level escalating again... |
| 23:52.47 | A1win | anyway |
| 23:53.01 | A1win | :P |
| 23:53.16 | A1win | just think of threads as "being executed parallel to every other thread" and you'll be fine ;p |
| 23:53.52 | DeadZergling | if I were to make one of these infinite loop threads |
| 23:53.58 | DeadZergling | w/ a 5 second wait or whatever |
| 23:54.03 | DeadZergling | is there a way to kill it? |
| 23:54.08 | A1win | sure |
| 23:54.12 | A1win | break inside the loop ;p |
| 23:54.23 | A1win | with custom script you could probably kill the thread itself |
| 23:54.42 | A1win | you can already "stop" a trigger, which is a thread |
| 23:55.00 | A1win | but if you make a custom action definition a thread, then you'd need custom script to be able to terminate it abruptly |
| 23:55.12 | A1win | but terminating threads seems a bit iffy anyway |
| 23:55.16 | EnexyNunu | multithreading requires parallel programming |
| 23:55.31 | EnexyNunu | you cannot parallel program in galaxy |
| 23:55.36 | A1win | yeah |
| 23:55.41 | A1win | it's not actual multithreading here |
| 23:55.48 | A1win | it just simulates it |
| 23:56.50 | Dustin | http://thewebsiteisdown.com/ |
| 23:56.53 | Dustin | Fucking hilarious |
| 23:59.22 | EnexyNunu | Multi-core cpu's still have an ability to run threads simultaneously, though. Just not at the same level if one were to program explicitly for parallelism. If that makes sense. |
| 23:59.34 | EnexyNunu | Was trying to think of a way to word it |
