| 00:01.40 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 00:01.43 | AlphA_VsT | hahaha |
| 00:01.55 | AlphA_VsT | nothing matters but page 1 :P |
| 00:02.49 | Daara_ | man wtf |
| 00:02.56 | Daara_ | luckiest guesses ever in phantom mode |
| 00:03.01 | Daara_ | they picked 2 ppl to attack |
| 00:03.04 | Daara_ | me and the other phantom |
| 00:03.19 | Daara_ | i did nothing unusual either |
| 00:04.06 | AlphA_VsT | ? |
| 00:19.46 | Darren | Now I just need to find someone to make a background for the loading screen |
| 00:22.47 | AlphA_VsT | oh yeah? |
| 00:23.10 | Bounty | yeah im def gonna need someone to do that for me aswell lol |
| 00:23.18 | Bounty | i cant even think of a name for my map >< |
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| 01:05.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Net_Creator (~Net_Creat@66.185.73.135) |
| 01:29.18 | Mexa_ | http://kotaku.com/5889801/youtube-users-are-currently-mostly-hating-mass-effect-3s-gay-male-sex-scene lol |
| 01:32.05 | JademusSreg | Who gives a shit about youtube likes and comments? =D |
| 01:32.09 | JademusSreg | I mean, really. |
| 01:33.11 | Mexa_ | yeah, and there wasn't even anything explicit |
| 01:33.51 | JademusSreg | Any public forum on the internet is going to be filled with hate that is not representative of the whole of its participants. Can't take it seriously. |
| 01:34.31 | Mexa_ | yep:p |
| 01:34.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster StrangerDanger (~whois@206-248-179-188.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:35.01 | Mexa_ | Oh well GoT I go. Seeya folks! |
| 01:40.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster pek (pek@cpe-72-229-225-193.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:41.06 | pek | hey guys... |
| 01:41.16 | pek | has anybody here worked with Galaxy++? |
| 01:41.35 | AlphA_VsT | no |
| 01:43.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (442ccc3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.44.204.59) |
| 01:43.13 | Bounty | Nom Nom Nom |
| 01:46.19 | JademusSreg | What about it? |
| 01:50.20 | AlphA_VsT | NOMMY! |
| 01:54.44 | pek | Whenever I "Compile and Save" and choose to open the SCII Map Editor, I get the following warning: Unable to load 'Triggers' from <file to my map path> |
| 01:55.15 | pek | I open the Imports and I see that the MapScript.galaxy is indeed the compiled file, but I have to select "Reserved files" to see it. |
| 01:55.47 | pek | I meant, "Show Reserved". |
| 01:56.52 | pek | Both the Project Map and the ouput map are the same file (not sure if this has anything to do about this) |
| 01:57.32 | JademusSreg | I do not understand what you are saying. The way you're expected to use G++ is to save the map as a SC2Components while creates a directory, basically unraveling the map mpq contents. |
| 01:58.08 | pek | So, I create a new folder and select it as my output map? |
| 01:58.18 | JademusSreg | You set the project output to that directory, so the g++ generated script goes there, and is part of the map. |
| 01:59.11 | pek | OK, let me try that. |
| 02:01.38 | Daara_ | lol mexa |
| 02:01.39 | Daara_ | let me guess |
| 02:01.45 | Daara_ | a bunch of raging christians |
| 02:01.48 | Daara_ | about a gay scene in a game |
| 02:02.21 | Daara_ | its not gay if you're a femshep |
| 02:03.19 | pek | So, I created a new map, removed all script, saved it as a ComponentList and used that directory as my project map and output map. Same problem. |
| 02:03.56 | pek | I meant, removed all the default triggers, not scripts |
| 02:04.24 | JademusSreg | Plenty of other religious denominations and nonreligious people have backward perspectives on the ethics of human sexuality. I'd bet the hate comments aren't exclusively christian. |
| 02:04.26 | Mexa_ | Daara_, I expect Fox news are eager o pick up the story, like they did with Mass Effect. |
| 02:04.44 | Daara_ | haha |
| 02:04.47 | Daara_ | probably |
| 02:05.07 | Mexa_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU |
| 02:05.47 | Mexa_ | Embarassing, especially when it was later discovered that they didn't look up facts properly, and hadn't even played the game. |
| 02:06.09 | Mexa_ | Fox News as usual though.. |
| 02:11.02 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 02:11.53 | pek | I think I saw some of my brain cells actually fly out of my ear.... |
| 02:12.28 | JademusSreg | What acute vision. |
| 02:12.43 | AlphA_VsT | among other things |
| 02:13.17 | Mexa_ | It's not like they took another step complaining about portal 2 as well. |
| 02:13.19 | AlphA_VsT | Like a ruptured ear canal leaking brain fuild |
| 02:14.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster MindWorX (~MindWorX@188.176.196.178) |
| 02:15.16 | Mexa_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUQYrdgIJuI Yet another Fox thing. |
| 02:15.29 | Mexa_ | Also, since when did Valve ever say Portal 2 was educational? |
| 02:15.33 | Mexa_ | ._. |
| 02:16.20 | Mexa_ | I get that that parent might be surprised, but Fox news just knows the best how to blow it up the roof. |
| 02:18.16 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~casdasdqq@dslb-092-073-202-165.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:25.26 | Bounty | Still busy JademusSreg? |
| 02:25.50 | JademusSreg | Nah, metting's done. |
| 02:25.53 | JademusSreg | *meeting |
| 02:25.58 | Bounty | log on >< |
| 02:26.01 | Bounty | test time! |
| 02:38.56 | Mexa_ | It's getting late,. Goodnight guys. |
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| 02:39.03 | Mchearty | meow |
| 02:39.06 | Mchearty | anyone around? |
| 02:39.29 | Mexa_ | I was just going to bed, unfortunntly. |
| 02:39.33 | Mexa_ | *a |
| 02:39.37 | Mchearty | :| |
| 02:41.54 | Mchearty | I'm having trouble figuring out editing units -_- |
| 02:43.51 | Bounty | So JademusSreg... next page 1 map or next page 1 map? lol |
| 02:44.12 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 02:50.39 | RipperRooX | aw lord i hate css html^^ |
| 02:50.50 | JademusSreg | Especially if you add lots of superfluous shit people love, like unlocks. |
| 02:51.05 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 02:51.06 | Bounty | lol well shit like that would be waaay down the road |
| 02:51.53 | RipperRooX | Mchearty only hhelral is allowed to meow here.. plz obey the rules |
| 02:52.34 | Mchearty | :c |
| 02:52.41 | Mchearty | brb while I eat my sorrows away |
| 02:58.17 | Daara_ | it's my turn with the sexbox |
| 02:58.25 | Daara_ | and her name is sony |
| 03:03.08 | RipperRooX | huh |
| 03:05.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa_ (504ed854@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.78.216.84) |
| 03:21.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Parthon (~cheeeese@godsta.arach.net.au) |
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| 03:23.23 | Bounty | Woop Woop |
| 03:34.43 | JademusSreg | Poow poow |
| 03:36.22 | Mchearty | I can't figure out how to make a cannon work without a pylon -_- |
| 03:36.56 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 03:37.27 | Mchearty | It's not funny! |
| 03:37.38 | Mchearty | It's complicated T.T |
| 03:37.58 | AlphA_VsT | remove the power user |
| 03:38.00 | AlphA_VsT | behavior |
| 03:38.01 | AlphA_VsT | done |
| 03:38.04 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 03:39.02 | Mchearty | :c |
| 03:39.29 | Bounty | JademusSreg |
| 03:39.34 | Bounty | i wish we could just get 14 ppl right now |
| 03:39.37 | Bounty | n see how this plays out |
| 03:39.38 | Bounty | lol |
| 03:41.36 | Mchearty | I'll help test if you need it |
| 03:42.22 | JademusSreg | It would be bonkers. (Not the cartoon cat.) |
| 03:43.36 | Mchearty | I think the data tab is the hardest part of the editor ;\ |
| 03:45.35 | AlphA_VsT | its not so confusing when you get it |
| 03:45.49 | Mchearty | I'm working on that part |
| 03:47.20 | Bounty | im debating on the music for deathmatch mode atm JademusSreg |
| 03:47.28 | Bounty | u know how i am with music lol |
| 03:49.56 | JademusSreg | It only seems confusing if you're tripping over it, trying to get to the objective without first learning the lay of the land. But if you first take the time to learn, patiently pouring over the careful cartographic repository that is the knowledge base of the community, making your way over its face such that your feet know the familiar contours of its stones through experience, then you |
| 03:49.57 | JademusSreg | are better able to make a route to your objectives. |
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| 04:14.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster QueenG (18120ced@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.12.237) |
| 04:21.19 | Parthon | JademusSreg: the problem is that if you don't have a set objective, you kind of just wander around the same territory, not learning anything new |
| 04:21.34 | Parthon | by tripping over new things, you explore and learn |
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| 04:51.43 | Mchearty | Hmmm |
| 04:52.14 | Mchearty | Point moving seems a bit tricky |
| 04:52.27 | AlphA_VsT | ? |
| 04:52.38 | Mchearty | Having a point track a unit |
| 04:52.45 | AlphA_VsT | use a region |
| 04:52.49 | AlphA_VsT | attach region to unit |
| 04:53.12 | Mchearty | Does it change anything in triggers? |
| 04:53.28 | AlphA_VsT | what do you mean? |
| 04:53.36 | AlphA_VsT | depends on how you want to use it |
| 04:53.47 | Mchearty | Like I'm trying to have a point track a unit, and then at set intervals spawn a unit |
| 04:53.53 | Mchearty | I've got the latter solved |
| 04:54.11 | Mchearty | But it looks like I have to force a tracking update tick |
| 04:54.15 | Mchearty | to track the point to the unit |
| 04:54.16 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 04:54.28 | AlphA_VsT | why do you need a point to spawn at a unit? |
| 04:54.32 | AlphA_VsT | just use postion of unit |
| 04:55.05 | Mchearty | It tells me I have to use a point in the trigger editor |
| 04:56.56 | Mchearty | Create 1 Marine for player CurrentPlayer at Spawn 1a using default facing (Ignore Placement) |
| 04:57.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Net_Creator (~Net_Creat@66.185.73.135) |
| 04:58.01 | Mchearty | hmm |
| 04:58.09 | Mchearty | I got it to use a unit, lets see if it works |
| 04:58.10 | AlphA_VsT | go to... |
| 04:58.50 | Bounty | I need as many people as possible to test my Bullet Hell Vehicle Combat map |
| 04:58.54 | Bounty | whos down? :) |
| 04:59.01 | AlphA_VsT | its under functions when you select point... |
| 04:59.14 | AlphA_VsT | flirting with a woman... busy really |
| 04:59.30 | Mchearty | oh rad |
| 04:59.34 | Kueken | shes fake |
| 04:59.35 | Mchearty | this makes it much easier |
| 04:59.41 | Kueken | I dont believe in women |
| 05:00.43 | AlphA_VsT | haha... |
| 05:01.12 | Bounty | nobody eh? shame |
| 05:01.21 | Mchearty | So is there a downside to spawning directly to a unit? |
| 05:01.36 | Mchearty | instead of a region/point |
| 05:01.46 | Currydevil | not really. |
| 05:01.57 | Currydevil | as long asit does what you want, there is no downside |
| 05:02.22 | Mchearty | I mean like is there a benefit to using a region or point |
| 05:02.38 | Currydevil | it depends on what you're doing. |
| 05:03.04 | Bounty | you there JademusSreg? |
| 05:03.39 | Mchearty | The spawner needs to be able to spawn 20 different units throughout the course of a game |
| 05:04.03 | Bounty | Welll then... this is disapointing lol |
| 05:04.09 | Mchearty | i'll help bounty |
| 05:04.19 | Currydevil | doesn't really matter if you use a region/point/unit. they're just different methodso f telling the game where to make the units |
| 05:04.32 | Bounty | need as many people as possible Mchearty |
| 05:04.34 | Currydevil | no real disadvantage/advantage |
| 05:04.38 | Bounty | since its bullethell |
| 05:04.45 | Bounty | the main test is to see if bnet can handle... the bullets |
| 05:04.46 | Bounty | =P |
| 05:04.50 | Mchearty | Currydevil seems like unit will work the best for me |
| 05:05.31 | Bounty | Anyone else on US want to help test the next page 1 map? =P |
| 05:05.49 | Mchearty | query me your nick so I can add you |
| 05:05.57 | Bounty | Bounty.820 |
| 05:08.11 | Mchearty | added good sir |
| 05:08.20 | Bounty | kk now we just need more ppl >< |
| 05:08.41 | Currydevil | trying to come up with abilities. no time for hell =O |
| 05:08.52 | Bounty | JADEMUSSREG |
| 05:08.55 | Bounty | herrro |
| 05:08.58 | Bounty | we need mo testers |
| 05:10.31 | Bounty | I could just show you the map for now Mchearty so you can spread the word if u want >< |
| 05:10.50 | Mchearty | sure :P |
| 05:11.09 | Bounty | quit out of ur game |
| 05:12.15 | Bounty | Only 3 things you need to know to play atm. Right click to move/shoot. There is vehicle collision and going in the water kills u >< |
| 05:18.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-180-50.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 05:23.42 | JademusSreg | Pew pew |
| 05:25.41 | JademusSreg | When you create a unit "in a region", you're just going to get a point from that region anyway, since UnitCreate takes a point, so the problem is non-existent. |
| 05:25.45 | Currydevil | hmm, what kind of effect might blasting someone with water have? I just can't think of anything suitable. |
| 05:28.19 | Bounty | aw Jademussreg |
| 05:28.20 | Bounty | u missed it |
| 05:28.23 | Bounty | we had a test with 3 players >< |
| 05:28.41 | Currydevil | not enuff bullets for hell? |
| 05:29.17 | Parthon | gah |
| 05:29.31 | Parthon | I missed the test :( |
| 05:30.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Batomys (4b24939a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.36.147.154) |
| 05:31.05 | Batomys | What does 'Upload Error: Default attribute could not be validated.' mean, when attempting to publish? |
| 05:31.54 | Parthon | sounds like what it says on the can |
| 05:32.05 | Parthon | have you got your game variations set up correctly? |
| 05:32.51 | Parthon | game varients* |
| 05:33.13 | Batomys | First time uploading, nope, never set any up. |
| 05:33.42 | Batomys | Trying again to upload |
| 05:36.43 | Batomys | Crap, failed again |
| 05:37.13 | AlphA_VsT | set up a game variant then |
| 05:37.44 | Parthon | yeah, you have to set up a game variant, the defaults won't work |
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| 05:39.10 | *** part/#sc2mapster Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-124.client.mchsi.com) |
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| 05:57.18 | Batomys | If I had 4 human players and other players that are allied and controller by computer, do they all need to be on the 'Team 1', 'Team 2', or is that only for user slots? |
| 06:00.25 | Batomys | gah, I'll worry about it tomorrow |
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| 06:14.14 | JademusSreg | Unrelated: It's sad that Command & Conquer lore (paltry as it was) gradually got more interesting, and then it shit the bed with C&C4. |
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| 06:19.28 | Mchearty | Yuri! |
| 06:20.32 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 06:20.53 | AlphA_VsT | didnt the C&C4 team like all get fired? |
| 06:21.56 | AlphA_VsT | and the game was like rushed out just to make money? |
| 06:24.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster McHearty (~fuck@static-50-53-135-51.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) |
| 06:24.36 | McHearty | mmm much better |
| 06:24.52 | AlphA_VsT | ? |
| 06:25.05 | McHearty | reinstalled an actual irc client |
| 06:25.07 | McHearty | :P |
| 06:25.15 | JademusSreg | That was the rumor, Alph, but I've not found any documentation to that effect. |
| 06:26.16 | JademusSreg | Also, I'm refering the main Tiberium C&C continuity, rather than the Red Alert continuity. |
| 06:27.55 | Vailreth | yeah up until four it was going pretty good |
| 06:28.27 | Vailreth | plus the rpg elements and Class selection is akward ... |
| 06:38.03 | AlphA_VsT | lol never played it |
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| 07:42.40 | AlphA_VsT | :D |
| 07:50.30 | *** join/#sc2mapster Eimtr (4f7c3a21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.124.58.33) |
| 08:01.53 | JademusSreg | is thinking about a 4-dimensional first person shooter. |
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| 08:16.45 | Kueken | Jade: i would definitely play it |
| 08:16.51 | Kueken | just to blow my mind |
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| 08:18.56 | JademusSreg | I've been working out the logic of it. It sounds doable. I'll look into prototyping it when I have some free time. |
| 08:26.12 | Kueken | how do you interpret your 4th dimension? Additional geometric one or something like time displacements? |
| 08:26.39 | JademusSreg | "Geometric". I've worked out the logic and visualization well enough. |
| 08:27.12 | JademusSreg | Figured I'd appropriate doppler shifts, red-shift and blue-shift, to indicate four-dimensional directionality. |
| 08:29.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-180-50.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 08:39.11 | Eimtr | Why Hide All Leaderboards doesnt work? |
| 08:39.38 | Kueken | so you are kind of in a red plane and see enemies fading out in a blue plane if they chose to move that way? |
| 08:41.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster Sevenix (pheonix@c-83-233-144-145.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 08:41.33 | JademusSreg | The latter half of that is correct. |
| 08:44.16 | JademusSreg | Assuming you are stationary in the fourth dimension, a character or missile moving blueward would decrease in detail, decrease in opacity, and blue shift, and similarly red shift if moving redward. |
| 08:45.28 | JademusSreg | However, if you are moving redward, the terrain features and stationary objects there would blueshift, and redward objects and terrain would shift from red to becoming more opaque and less red. |
| 08:46.25 | JademusSreg | Make sense? |
| 08:55.03 | Eimtr | Can any1 tell me 2 thingsL If I use Leaderboard - Disable Showing state for CareerStats for (Player group((Triggering player))) on Any Player Presses Keyevent |
| 08:55.39 | Eimtr | does that do the action for the player doing the press or for all players? Cause Triggering player is greyed and it is not a function for Press Key event |
| 08:58.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (~Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 08:58.39 | JademusSreg | Odd. |
| 09:06.26 | Eimtr | Why on bnet, if I do Player leaves with Victory, add +1 to win in Bank, add +1 loss to Bank of all players if they are not (triggering player) i,e victorious? - Even if you quit immediately the other player gets a win, no need to wait for all buildings destroyed |
| 09:06.33 | Eimtr | yet the one who quits cant get a loss.. |
| 09:08.00 | McHearty | It works in desert strike, perhaps look at their triggers for a solution? |
| 09:08.50 | McHearty | JademusSreg they already have a few 4d shooters |
| 09:09.00 | McHearty | Since the 4th dimension is time... :P |
| 09:09.08 | JademusSreg | Naw. |
| 09:09.58 | Eimtr | well my triggers for how all who are not the victor get a loss works all fine, e.g if you win while ingame but on leaving the game, the remaining player who also gets Victory message and quits gets the win bit the other isnt |
| 09:10.52 | JademusSreg | For the purposes of calculating a 3-dimensional object over a period of time, it is convenient to assume the fourth dimension is time, which is not the same thing as it actually being time in a cosmological model. |
| 09:10.53 | Eimtr | the others do not, is it because I have a condition - Or: Is Playing Or left the game - exactly this way winner gets his win but loser cant get his loss |
| 09:12.12 | McHearty | JademusSreg based on our current view of a linear timestream, it can be applied as a 4th dimension, and theoretically it could even work with non-linear models |
| 09:12.35 | McHearty | the current three dimensions are all based on perception mind you |
| 09:12.51 | JademusSreg | Similarly, I can calculate the state of a 2-dimensional system across time, treating time as a third-dimension, which is appropriate to the calculations involved, but that does not mean the third dimension in our universe is actually a temporal dimension for 2-dimensional objects. |
| 09:13.16 | McHearty | On some tegmark level, it very well could be JademusSreg |
| 09:13.29 | JademusSreg | So at this juncture, I am all kinds of not giving a fuck. |
| 09:13.47 | McHearty | perhaps you can give a fuck and not at the same time |
| 09:13.48 | McHearty | :O |
| 09:13.52 | JademusSreg | Eimtr, I may have a solution. |
| 09:13.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@78.97.99.188) |
| 09:14.39 | JademusSreg | A bool array sized to the number of players, initialized to false (that's the default), and only set the value when the player wins. |
| 09:15.10 | JademusSreg | "Wins" in the context of the game's mechanics, not in the sense of what is reported. |
| 09:15.27 | JademusSreg | Then, make a trigger that fires on Any Player Leaves, results undetermined. |
| 09:16.52 | JademusSreg | And if the bool value for the player is false, save the bank with that loss then game over with a loss. If the bool is true, save the win and then game over with a victory. |
| 09:17.47 | JademusSreg | This is the same approach I use in my maps. |
| 09:18.54 | Eimtr | Basically my trigger for win and loss shouldnt changed - it says if Integer = WInning player , add win, if not , add loss from all active players |
| 09:19.41 | Eimtr | so im just making a trigger lead to that trigger e,g I set Victory player = this, run the trigger for adding wins and losses and it adds the win just not the loss |
| 09:20.22 | Eimtr | for others cause when they quit, it seems it doesnt save for them, while player victory quits it still saves for him |
| 09:20.53 | JademusSreg | What's the events for the respective triggers? |
| 09:21.48 | Eimtr | I've tested it on regular ways - like an arena, winning unit gets win, all other units of other players that die get the loss - it all works fine but with Player Leaves in Victory and set variable = triggering player, only the Win saves for this winning plasyer,. the loss does not for others |
| 09:22.24 | JademusSreg | That does not answer my question, but then I am out of time. |
| 09:22.41 | JademusSreg | It's quite late here. |
| 09:22.47 | Eimtr | ok i will see what u iffered |
| 09:23.14 | JademusSreg | If it's not solved by the time I'm awake, I'll take a look. =D |
| 09:23.18 | JademusSreg | Sleep time. |
| 09:23.27 | Eimtr | ok thanks for helping |
| 09:23.36 | Eimtr | will just put a thread on it eventually |
| 09:32.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Parthon (~cheeeese@godsta.arach.net.au) |
| 09:44.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Jum-Jum (Jum-Jum@c-5416e255.332-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 10:47.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Eldrazor (57fb301d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.251.48.29) |
| 10:47.49 | Eldrazor | hi guys |
| 10:50.44 | McHearty | hey little buddy |
| 10:51.50 | Eldrazor | i just |
| 10:51.52 | Eldrazor | . . . |
| 10:51.55 | Eldrazor | katawa shoujo |
| 10:51.56 | Eldrazor | that's all |
| 10:54.38 | Helral|Work | meows |
| 10:55.28 | Eldrazor | you should all play it |
| 10:55.33 | Eldrazor | or read it |
| 10:55.40 | Eldrazor | whatever you do actively with a visual novel |
| 10:55.45 | McHearty | doesn't look amazing |
| 10:56.18 | Helral|Work | looks around for some fish |
| 10:56.27 | McHearty | o_O |
| 10:56.48 | Helral|Work | meows |
| 10:59.51 | Eldrazor | lol |
| 10:59.54 | Eldrazor | read it |
| 10:59.56 | Eldrazor | play it |
| 10:59.58 | Eldrazor | whatever |
| 11:00.04 | Eldrazor | it's changed my life |
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| 11:13.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster Eimtr (4f7c3a21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.124.58.33) |
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| 11:26.09 | A1win | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gbKQ3mIo5E |
| 11:26.32 | McHearty | Anyone know why the oldschool style of making turret defense maps died? |
| 11:28.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@67.58.77.206) |
| 11:28.33 | Parthon | cause they got boring? |
| 11:28.43 | McHearty | No I mean art style |
| 11:29.08 | Parthon | art style? |
| 11:30.02 | McHearty | sec |
| 11:30.06 | McHearty | http://i.imgur.com/ma2ly.jpg |
| 11:30.12 | McHearty | like that |
| 11:30.24 | A1win | ._o |
| 11:30.29 | McHearty | I'm just fucking around in the editor to see if you can even do it still |
| 11:30.33 | McHearty | but it looks like you can |
| 11:30.36 | Parthon | yeah you can |
| 11:30.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Xaragoth (~name@ip-78-94-83-96.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 11:30.42 | Parthon | and yeah, people got bored of the bleakness |
| 11:30.46 | A1win | that looks terrible |
| 11:31.05 | McHearty | Most tower d games are really simplistic in design tbh |
| 11:31.20 | McHearty | A1win that's how they all looked in bw |
| 11:31.36 | A1win | it doesn't change the fact o: |
| 11:32.04 | McHearty | it's not *that* bad |
| 11:32.10 | McHearty | it's kinda retro |
| 11:32.30 | A1win | the biggest issue is the two dimensional ground |
| 11:32.43 | McHearty | Retro -_- |
| 11:32.56 | A1win | nothing retro about having a two dimensional plane in a 3D world |
| 11:33.11 | McHearty | it is if you're making a 1-1 remake of an sc1 map |
| 11:33.18 | A1win | oh that way |
| 11:33.29 | A1win | well I never played them so no idea |
| 11:33.31 | McHearty | sec |
| 11:33.35 | McHearty | lemme show you comparison |
| 11:33.40 | Parthon | McHearty: it's more minimalistic rather than retro |
| 11:33.55 | A1win | maybe you can get some nostalgy value out of it |
| 11:34.07 | Parthon | and I prefer the more detailed and well constructed modern maps |
| 11:34.21 | A1win | Retro is a culturally outdated or aged style, trend, mode, or fashion, from the overall postmodern past, that has since that time become functionally or superficially the norm once again. |
| 11:34.30 | McHearty | A1win http://i.imgur.com/Zl0FM.jpg |
| 11:35.14 | Parthon | A1win: like 16 bit 2d games ;) |
| 11:35.25 | A1win | but that's not 2D :P |
| 11:35.40 | A1win | only part of it is, making it look bad |
| 11:35.52 | McHearty | well you could update it |
| 11:35.59 | McHearty | and add like some neat stuff from the new engine |
| 11:36.06 | McHearty | but copy over the mechanics |
| 11:36.11 | McHearty | and design style |
| 11:36.20 | A1win | I wouldn't recommend it |
| 11:36.23 | McHearty | make it a cliff section instead of 2d |
| 11:37.18 | A1win | recreating old things takes too much effort compared to what comes out of it |
| 11:37.25 | McHearty | Not really |
| 11:37.30 | A1win | it's better to make new things based on the old things |
| 11:37.32 | Parthon | McHearty: wait, what? |
| 11:37.39 | Parthon | so, make it old, but new .. ? |
| 11:37.39 | McHearty | Parthon what? |
| 11:37.48 | McHearty | Old transformed to new o_o |
| 11:37.54 | Parthon | I thought you linked the art style of the 2d plane floating in space |
| 11:37.56 | Parthon | liked* |
| 11:38.10 | Parthon | so how would updating it to modern 3d with cliffs and layers preserve that? |
| 11:38.19 | McHearty | I am fond of it mainly because i spent hundreds of hours playing and designing maps like this a decade ago |
| 11:38.20 | A1win | and yeah you were talking specifically about the art style, now you're saying it's not important |
| 11:38.35 | McHearty | I'm saying to appeal to your tastes |
| 11:38.43 | McHearty | it'd be possible |
| 11:38.54 | McHearty | I'm sitll carrying forward with doing it my way |
| 11:39.15 | A1win | well I've never liked TDs so there's not much you could do about that anyway |
| 11:39.20 | McHearty | Ah |
| 11:39.35 | McHearty | I wish they had kept the editor as simple as the sc1 one :( |
| 11:39.44 | A1win | sometimes I feel like I should make my own TD very different from the usual TDs just to show people how it's done properly :| |
| 11:39.58 | McHearty | I'm not a fan of any of the ones I've seen lately |
| 11:40.11 | McHearty | They're all too independant |
| 11:40.19 | A1win | the whole idea of doing something only part of the time is stupid |
| 11:40.38 | McHearty | It's more like strategy |
| 11:40.46 | A1win | it has nothing to do with strategy either |
| 11:40.47 | McHearty | turn based instead of rts |
| 11:41.14 | A1win | it's about creating the most optimal tower setup and memorizing what each wave of enemies consists of |
| 11:41.50 | A1win | there's zero reaction required from players |
| 11:42.15 | A1win | it almost feels like not a game at all |
| 11:42.18 | McHearty | See thats not how it used to be |
| 11:42.32 | McHearty | it used to require teamwork, and if someone leaked you'd have to carry |
| 11:42.39 | McHearty | and build at certain places together |
| 11:44.46 | McHearty | my decals don't seem to be rendering -_- |
| 11:45.22 | A1win | could be disabled on low graphic settings? |
| 11:45.30 | McHearty | It's on ultra |
| 11:45.33 | A1win | oh |
| 11:45.45 | A1win | camera distance too high? |
| 11:46.07 | McHearty | nope can't zoom in any further |
| 11:46.21 | A1win | I meant if you have changed it for the map |
| 11:46.36 | A1win | shouldn't be an issue with default camera |
| 11:46.36 | McHearty | nope it's on default |
| 11:46.49 | A1win | no idea then |
| 11:47.04 | McHearty | could it be default height? |
| 11:51.52 | Parthon | McHearty: played Dungeon Defenders? |
| 11:52.06 | McHearty | Parthon on steam? |
| 11:52.15 | Parthon | yeah |
| 11:52.30 | Parthon | it's a standalone game, but it has that classic TD teamplay feel, with lots of action |
| 11:53.19 | McHearty | I've heard people talk about it, never played it though |
| 11:59.19 | Kueken | (12:39:49) A1win: sometimes I feel like I should make my own TD very different from the usual TDs just to show people how it's done properly :| |
| 11:59.28 | Kueken | oh how often have I heard this xD |
| 11:59.57 | Parthon | all the tine |
| 12:00.00 | Parthon | time |
| 12:01.01 | Parthon | I'm making a "different" TD right now |
| 12:01.05 | A1win | hehe |
| 12:01.10 | McHearty | I'm making an old one just to see what happens |
| 12:01.15 | McHearty | :s |
| 12:01.43 | Kueken | well, making a td is not hard |
| 12:01.59 | Kueken | making it different needs just an idea |
| 12:02.10 | Kueken | making it good is another story |
| 12:02.41 | Kueken | and tds dont need to be different to be good |
| 12:02.55 | Kueken | and being different doesn't automatically make them good |
| 12:03.44 | McHearty | They have to be easy to pick up |
| 12:03.58 | McHearty | and challenging, but not too hard |
| 12:03.58 | Parthon | that rules me out |
| 12:04.05 | Parthon | mine* |
| 12:04.08 | Parthon | it's complicated as hell |
| 12:04.58 | Kueken | complicated and easy to pick up don't necessarily rule out each other |
| 12:05.12 | A1win | no one said it'd automatically be good because it's different :P |
| 12:05.28 | Kueken | ;) |
| 12:05.42 | A1win | it's just a fact that it'd have to *be* different to be good |
| 12:05.52 | Parthon | I'm trying to work out how to make it more complex :P |
| 12:06.01 | Kueken | I don't think so |
| 12:06.03 | McHearty | Pathing |
| 12:06.21 | Kueken | there are very well-made tds out there, which do nothing really different |
| 12:07.00 | A1win | I'm sure they all suck all the same D: |
| 12:07.01 | A1win | :P |
| 12:07.06 | Parthon | ;) |
| 12:07.13 | Kueken | well, complexity just for complexity's sake might not be the best idea, either ;) |
| 12:07.37 | A1win | it requires changing the definition of the genre |
| 12:07.43 | Kueken | well, its all a matter of taste anyway |
| 12:08.03 | Kueken | and, to some degree, perception |
| 12:08.17 | A1win | obviously ;p |
| 12:08.45 | A1win | but I can't change my taste |
| 12:08.47 | McHearty | Hmm |
| 12:08.52 | McHearty | I've almost got the basic layout down |
| 12:09.39 | Parthon | woot |
| 12:11.06 | Parthon | I like the core concept, but I can't think up a decent layout lol :P |
| 12:11.18 | McHearty | Depends on what sort of units you want Parthon |
| 12:11.29 | McHearty | air, ground or both |
| 12:11.36 | Parthon | ground only |
| 12:12.03 | McHearty | Hmm that makes it easier |
| 12:12.26 | Kueken | I really enjoyed The Sorcerer's Defense layout |
| 12:12.31 | Kueken | if you know it |
| 12:12.31 | McHearty | You could do a sunken-d style layout |
| 12:13.24 | Parthon | oh, it's not pure defense |
| 12:13.39 | Parthon | there's a very heavy focus on economy building as well |
| 12:14.15 | Parthon | I was randomising the location of the minerals, gas and terrazine, but now I'm thinking a static layout might be better |
| 12:14.16 | Kueken | then you would need to decide, if economy is in a seperate area or can be part of a maze |
| 12:14.16 | McHearty | Economy TD's are strange imo |
| 12:14.21 | Kueken | if you allow mazing, that is |
| 12:14.41 | A1win | if you can't modify your towers during a wave, it'd be functionally the same that you'd have a light that turns on when your tower setup would result to a victory and off when it would result to a failure, and then you'd just build towers until the light turns on, and move to the next wave, without having to wait and see what the monsters do, or without having to restart the map if your towers weren't set up properly... this sounds bad, but it's ... |
| 12:14.46 | A1win | ... exactly why the way TDs are designed is bad |
| 12:14.52 | Parthon | Kueken: as it stands, it's more of a wall TD, where the enemies just directly attack the bases which are spread over a large plain |
| 12:15.26 | Kueken | ;) |
| 12:15.42 | Parthon | A1win: that would be pretty good actually |
| 12:15.57 | Kueken | there are so many possibilities to affect the outcome of a single wave |
| 12:15.59 | Parthon | because then it would just strip the TD down into it's pure tactical component without having to guess |
| 12:16.31 | A1win | it would strip it down to a jigsaw puzzle |
| 12:16.58 | Kueken | did anyone play Sos TD for WC3? |
| 12:17.15 | Parthon | A1win: if you combined with no cost limit, but then gave awards based on how little you spent :P |
| 12:17.50 | McHearty | ugh why is there no way to change the pathing of the paint brush -_- |
| 12:18.27 | Parthon | the pathing of the paint brush? |
| 12:18.55 | McHearty | instead of square a rectangle |
| 12:19.12 | Parthon | oh right |
| 12:19.38 | Parthon | two overlapping squares |
| 12:19.48 | McHearty | yeah |
| 12:19.51 | McHearty | I know -_- |
| 12:20.01 | Parthon | lol |
| 12:20.27 | McHearty | but when ur a painting a 2 grid thick line |
| 12:20.34 | McHearty | for a few hundred squares |
| 12:20.36 | Parthon | hahaha |
| 12:20.37 | McHearty | it gets annoying :P |
| 12:20.42 | Parthon | it does, it does indeed ;) |
| 12:20.54 | Parthon | I paint it in small goes and use ctrl-z a lot |
| 12:21.03 | Parthon | damnit, now I have to rethink my map |
| 12:21.12 | Parthon | the randomness was so that no two games would play the same |
| 12:21.32 | McHearty | http://i.imgur.com/sHrNr.jpg |
| 12:21.35 | McHearty | look at the minimap |
| 12:21.44 | Parthon | but part of the challenge was getting the resources from far away, to the front-line where it was needed |
| 12:21.53 | Parthon | I think I'll have to change where the frontline is |
| 12:22.30 | McHearty | There was a map like what you're making in sc1 |
| 12:22.39 | McHearty | but it was more of a defense kind of game |
| 12:22.40 | McHearty | than td |
| 12:22.49 | McHearty | like the zerg would rush a choke |
| 12:22.58 | Parthon | yeah, that's how this one is at the moment |
| 12:23.08 | McHearty | but if you ventured into zerg land |
| 12:23.12 | McHearty | you could get better minerals |
| 12:23.17 | McHearty | and more vespene |
| 12:23.25 | McHearty | but the choke would be larger |
| 12:24.01 | Parthon | yeah, that was part of the idea |
| 12:24.20 | Parthon | the goal wouldn't just be to survive the waves, but eventually get strong enough to push into the zerg territory and destroy the zerg spawners |
| 12:24.37 | Parthon | but each player controls all 3 races |
| 12:24.44 | McHearty | lol |
| 12:24.50 | McHearty | too complicated imo |
| 12:24.55 | Parthon | told you :P |
| 12:25.43 | McHearty | this paint tool is rubbish |
| 12:25.56 | Parthon | zoom in |
| 12:26.01 | Parthon | and use arrow keys |
| 12:26.36 | McHearty | lol! |
| 12:30.35 | McHearty | painting the map is the hardest part -_- |
| 12:30.46 | *** join/#sc2mapster KatFromNY (50a204ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.162.4.237) |
| 12:30.54 | KatFromNY | Anyone alive in here? |
| 12:31.06 | McHearty | we're all dead D: |
| 12:31.16 | KatFromNY | I'll send a medivac asap. |
| 12:31.46 | KatFromNY | You mind helping me out with a pickle of a problem, Mchearty? |
| 12:31.57 | McHearty | whats up |
| 12:33.16 | Kueken | medivac for dead people? |
| 12:33.28 | A1win | better send bodybags |
| 12:33.31 | McHearty | no the medics are necropheliacs |
| 12:33.35 | Parthon | kinky |
| 12:33.38 | Kueken | should send raynor's dropship instead, has got the matching colors |
| 12:33.39 | KatFromNY | I'm trying to change the "command center set rally point" to ONLY allow enemies,or own unit, but not it self. |
| 12:33.53 | Parthon | KatFromNY: woot |
| 12:34.50 | KatFromNY | The command center set rally thing. I'm using that to send out units from the base, but I don't want the player setting a rally point on the base itself, so the units get stuck there. |
| 12:35.06 | KatFromNY | Isn't it possible to exclude self from target options from the set rally? |
| 12:35.14 | Parthon | it should be |
| 12:35.51 | McHearty | Why would the units get stuck there? |
| 12:36.50 | A1win | looking at the rally ability, it seems to have Ability: Info - Filters fields, where it seems you can give filters for setting and using the rally |
| 12:37.32 | A1win | so setting the "Self" flag to Excluded for the Set filter should do the trick, if I understand the filters correctly (never used them) |
| 12:37.48 | A1win | ...never used them for the raly ability, that is |
| 12:37.52 | A1win | *rally |
| 12:38.26 | A1win | and Set On Ground to false |
| 12:38.30 | A1win | *disabled |
| 12:39.09 | A1win | McHearty, assumedly because the units themselves can't be controlled |
| 12:39.33 | McHearty | Well then the units should be under some sort of triggered mass-move |
| 12:40.06 | McHearty | If not as their main source of movement, but as a secondary dependancy to avoid the units from getting stuck |
| 12:40.07 | McHearty | no? |
| 12:40.20 | A1win | then the player wouldn't be able to set the rally point for them |
| 12:40.35 | McHearty | Mass move to player target? |
| 12:40.46 | KatFromNY | Exactly. |
| 12:40.56 | A1win | that would do the same as just disabling the raly point from being able to be set to a wrong position to begin with |
| 12:41.00 | A1win | *raly |
| 12:41.02 | A1win | aergh |
| 12:41.03 | McHearty | lol |
| 12:41.06 | McHearty | I see the issue |
| 12:41.07 | A1win | my L is broken |
| 12:41.10 | KatFromNY | The problem is difficulty. The units move to target rally point, but they have to EXIT the region they spawned in to be activated. |
| 12:41.23 | McHearty | Then set the command center or whatever under a region |
| 12:41.26 | McHearty | that doesn't allow units |
| 12:41.27 | KatFromNY | Let me check out what you guys set. |
| 12:41.34 | McHearty | a no-go zone? |
| 12:41.43 | KatFromNY | MChearty are you on EU or US ? |
| 12:41.53 | McHearty | US |
| 12:42.16 | KatFromNY | Anyway, gimme a moment to check into the things you guys wrote. |
| 12:43.14 | KatFromNY | Or not, gonna take the dog out, I'll be back in a bit, appreciate the help though! Will look into it later. |
| 12:43.37 | McHearty | ugh painting this is a pain in the arse |
| 12:47.12 | McHearty | finally got my pallet right |
| 12:47.13 | McHearty | -_- |
| 12:51.49 | A1win | hmm... I'm trying to figure out how to break symmetry in this map, it's been a while since I designed a pvp game |
| 12:52.03 | McHearty | What's wrong with symmetry? |
| 12:52.23 | A1win | with perfect symmetry, the game would always result into a draw |
| 12:52.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster equinox_ (5c4b7044@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.75.112.68) |
| 12:52.52 | equinox_ | hihi ! |
| 12:53.01 | A1win | in most games, symmetry is broken by clouding you information of what your opponent is doing |
| 12:53.03 | Kueken | assuming both sides always play perfectly |
| 12:53.15 | McHearty | ^ |
| 12:53.21 | McHearty | chess is symmetrical |
| 12:53.28 | A1win | it's not |
| 12:53.35 | McHearty | is too! |
| 12:53.36 | A1win | one player starts the game, the other one doesn't |
| 12:53.45 | McHearty | The board is symmetrical |
| 12:53.48 | Kueken | but white has first move, and the kings and queens are swapped |
| 12:53.55 | A1win | board is, but not the game |
| 12:54.04 | McHearty | gameplay may not be, but no game ever has truely symmetrical play |
| 12:54.22 | A1win | that's because all games have figured out how to break the symmetry |
| 12:54.24 | A1win | :P |
| 12:54.53 | A1win | usually by making them so difficult that it's not possible to play perfectly |
| 12:55.06 | Kueken | in this case, you also dont have to worry about it |
| 12:55.55 | A1win | I'm thinking a 1 vs 1 situation, both players start with their ship and instantly start nuking at each other with the ability that makes the most sense to start with |
| 12:56.08 | A1win | then they protect themselves somehow |
| 12:56.09 | A1win | hmm |
| 12:56.15 | equinox_ | i think in any game (with ruled that are enforced) the problem of symetry comes down to the who makes the first move thing |
| 12:56.15 | A1win | actually there already is a thing that breaks symmetry |
| 12:56.25 | equinox_ | the rules may be the same e.i. chess |
| 12:56.28 | equinox_ | and the board |
| 12:56.41 | A1win | when the enemy teleports, there's 1.5 seconds duration before you can actually see where he teleported |
| 12:57.07 | A1win | equinox_, this is not a turn-based game |
| 12:57.18 | equinox_ | so either you call having same rules / conditions symetry or your lost ^^ |
| 12:57.23 | equinox_ | doesnt matter |
| 12:57.35 | equinox_ | asd u just said it need time to show what the nemy does |
| 12:57.38 | equinox_ | enemy |
| 12:57.51 | A1win | but that teleport is just one ability, it's not used all the time |
| 12:57.56 | A1win | most actions you can instantly see |
| 12:57.59 | equinox_ | even if its just the ping time or the time you can process the information |
| 12:58.06 | McHearty | phase one complete |
| 12:58.10 | equinox_ | and react |
| 12:58.21 | A1win | the whole map is visible to the players all the time, and everything that happens on it |
| 12:58.21 | McHearty | http://i.imgur.com/wVo9e.jpg |
| 12:58.59 | equinox_ | as i stated , you can call same rules / starting conditions symmetry |
| 12:59.04 | A1win | and I'm not worrying about it having perfect symmetry, that won't happen either way |
| 12:59.16 | equinox_ | and it pretty much is and feels like it |
| 12:59.42 | A1win | but I'm trying to figure out how to make it asymmetric enough so that it's not just about who does the same thing better than the other player |
| 13:00.02 | equinox_ | anything you go further is just nitpicking and will turn into a phliosophical argument sooner or later :D |
| 13:00.21 | A1win | I'm not trying to argue about the definitions of symmetry =P |
| 13:00.27 | equinox_ | sry, i was late to the discussion |
| 13:00.28 | A1win | I'm trying to figure out how to make this game good |
| 13:00.35 | equinox_ | so i need some more info :) |
| 13:01.01 | A1win | small test for controls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gbKQ3mIo5E |
| 13:01.15 | A1win | the idea is that each player has a stationary ship that can only move by teleporting |
| 13:01.31 | A1win | and the rest of the time they use to nuke at each other with different kinds of missiles etc. |
| 13:01.44 | A1win | and protect themselves with different kinds of abilities |
| 13:02.15 | equinox_ | mmm , that sounds like a nice idea |
| 13:02.26 | A1win | yeh |
| 13:02.33 | equinox_ | but think about an upgrade system |
| 13:02.50 | Parthon | so it's like pong |
| 13:02.51 | equinox_ | without the moving controlls you have quite some time to think about strategy |
| 13:02.56 | A1win | that's irrelevant until I've figured out better base mechanics |
| 13:03.05 | equinox_ | thats true |
| 13:03.53 | A1win | I also haven't gotten good ideas for defensive abilities yet |
| 13:04.10 | equinox_ | in the demo vid it seems to work well |
| 13:04.18 | equinox_ | did u test it with 2 players yet ? |
| 13:04.28 | A1win | nope, but I don't really see a reason to do so |
| 13:04.53 | A1win | the light balls destroy each other when they collide so you'd end up taking no damage if you aim well, but at the same time deal no damage :P |
| 13:05.05 | A1win | so the current setup is not properly playable |
| 13:05.07 | equinox_ | so what problem you see atm for themechanics ? the engine should take care of most concerns i can think of |
| 13:05.31 | A1win | I don't mean the technical implementation |
| 13:05.39 | A1win | but what the abilities do |
| 13:06.04 | equinox_ | ah , that could be used as a feature (like rockets) but yeah u need a way to have it disabled |
| 13:06.38 | equinox_ | for a defensive feature how about someting like the pd drone with 3 charges |
| 13:06.41 | A1win | not disabled, but different kinds of abilities that can't counter each other like that |
| 13:06.56 | A1win | like missiles that don't fly in a straight line |
| 13:07.29 | A1win | pd drone? |
| 13:07.33 | equinox_ | hehe, thats all DE work, not my stong side :) |
| 13:07.42 | equinox_ | point defence |
| 13:07.48 | equinox_ | killin incomming stuff |
| 13:07.52 | A1win | ah |
| 13:07.59 | equinox_ | but its not a reaction |
| 13:08.02 | A1win | wouldn't want to make it automated, that'd require no skill |
| 13:08.11 | equinox_ | i figute it more like a passive auto cast stuff |
| 13:08.16 | equinox_ | ye |
| 13:08.34 | equinox_ | always nice are things like slow fields |
| 13:08.43 | equinox_ | to have more time to react |
| 13:08.50 | A1win | mm could be neat |
| 13:09.19 | equinox_ | could also be used offensively to slow down enemy cool downs etc |
| 13:09.45 | A1win | I'm thinking of having one ability in each mouse button, and multiple abilities you can choose from for each button, so that once you've changed the ability, there is a cooldown during which you can't change it again |
| 13:10.32 | A1win | one missile type I was thinking of would pull other nearby missiles towards itself while it flies |
| 13:10.49 | A1win | slightly alter their paths |
| 13:10.56 | equinox_ | if you only have 2 "active" abilities i dont thing you should have too many defencive abilities |
| 13:11.02 | equinox_ | cause no one want to use em |
| 13:11.09 | A1win | they would be on separate cooldowns |
| 13:11.11 | equinox_ | and you loose the one two punch |
| 13:11.21 | A1win | not bound to the mouse buttons |
| 13:11.23 | McHearty | is there any way to put a unit ontop of a bunker? |
| 13:11.46 | A1win | move unit to location of bunker, increase height? |
| 13:12.00 | equinox_ | what you mean mchearty ? an actual unit or the actor of it ? |
| 13:12.14 | McHearty | I just want one stationary neutral unit to stand ontop of the bunker |
| 13:12.30 | equinox_ | make a new units |
| 13:12.35 | equinox_ | unit for it |
| 13:12.42 | equinox_ | and rise its height as alwin said |
| 13:12.54 | A1win | if the unit doesn't need to do anything, you could just attach the model as an actor to the bunker actor |
| 13:12.59 | equinox_ | then make it unclickable / inv or whatever you want :) |
| 13:13.15 | McHearty | A1win that's a bit above my skill level atm :| |
| 13:13.29 | equinox_ | its one simple trigger :) |
| 13:13.39 | equinox_ | and it would get rid of the make new units stuff |
| 13:14.10 | McHearty | I've got them like this right now |
| 13:14.10 | McHearty | http://i.imgur.com/Re7qL.jpg |
| 13:14.14 | McHearty | but I want them on top :P |
| 13:14.35 | equinox_ | use actors its way faster |
| 13:14.37 | equinox_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:14.45 | equinox_ | this is the trigger you need |
| 13:14.50 | equinox_ | create actor |
| 13:15.09 | equinox_ | change the "no game link" to whatever you want it to be ) |
| 13:15.27 | equinox_ | ant the point you choose the bunker you want to display it |
| 13:15.37 | equinox_ | the offset is the hight |
| 13:15.45 | equinox_ | + is up i think |
| 13:16.23 | equinox_ | try +1 then see if it works ^^ |
| 13:17.43 | equinox_ | no game link is the bunker you want the unit to appear above |
| 13:18.03 | McHearty | Hmm |
| 13:18.08 | equinox_ | uhm no its the unit you want to appear above the bunker sry |
| 13:18.47 | McHearty | so many actors |
| 13:18.51 | McHearty | lol -_- |
| 13:18.58 | A1win | use search ;p |
| 13:19.12 | McHearty | I did |
| 13:19.13 | McHearty | it lagged |
| 13:19.17 | McHearty | hard for a few seconds |
| 13:19.29 | A1win | mm that's normal |
| 13:19.35 | equinox_ | thats a flaw of galaxy |
| 13:19.52 | equinox_ | ye, search for the name of unit |
| 13:20.27 | McHearty | Okay, How do I change the height, I got the first two parts |
| 13:20.41 | equinox_ | if you have at point |
| 13:20.48 | equinox_ | create actor at point |
| 13:21.05 | McHearty | Yeah I have Create actor Marine at point Buy Marine |
| 13:21.09 | equinox_ | then click on the point go to function and choose point with offset |
| 13:21.52 | McHearty | Z offset, correct? |
| 13:21.56 | equinox_ | yes |
| 13:22.01 | equinox_ | z is height |
| 13:22.30 | equinox_ | im not rly sure if + is up or - , but i recommed you try +3 and see what happens |
| 13:22.42 | equinox_ | should be way above the bunker |
| 13:22.49 | A1win | + is up ;p |
| 13:22.54 | A1win | why'd it be the other way round :P |
| 13:23.25 | equinox_ | i was just not sure :P |
| 13:23.31 | equinox_ | but ye ur right ^^ |
| 13:23.34 | McHearty | testing |
| 13:23.42 | A1win | 3 is very high |
| 13:23.54 | McHearty | yeah if its there I can't see it :P |
| 13:23.55 | A1win | cliffs are height of 2 |
| 13:24.10 | equinox_ | then 1 should be enough |
| 13:24.34 | equinox_ | before you test , what event does your trigger have ? |
| 13:24.44 | equinox_ | should be map init |
| 13:24.45 | McHearty | game initialization |
| 13:24.48 | McHearty | yeah |
| 13:24.49 | equinox_ | good |
| 13:25.06 | McHearty | Yeah I don't see any unit o.o |
| 13:25.19 | A1win | copy the trigger as text and paste here (the line you create the actor with) |
| 13:25.43 | McHearty | Actor - Create actor Marine at point (Buy Marine offset by 1.0 height) |
| 13:26.05 | A1win | and that Buy Marine is a premade point? |
| 13:26.11 | McHearty | Yes |
| 13:26.16 | McHearty | centered on the bunker |
| 13:26.20 | A1win | I'm not sure if unit actors can be created like that |
| 13:26.34 | A1win | you might need a custom Model actor with the marine model as its model |
| 13:26.48 | A1win | but that's easy |
| 13:27.07 | McHearty | o_O |
| 13:27.09 | A1win | in data editor actors tab, create new actor, set type to model, and then change the Art: Model field to marine |
| 13:27.27 | A1win | and then use the trigger to create that actor instead of the marine actor |
| 13:29.18 | McHearty | Hmm |
| 13:30.23 | McHearty | Actor - Create actor ShopMarine at point (Buy Marine offset by 1.0 height) |
| 13:31.43 | A1win | shopping time -> |
| 13:32.21 | McHearty | Still doesn't seem to want to work |
| 13:34.36 | equinox_ | think i found a solution |
| 13:34.56 | equinox_ | use action : |
| 13:35.01 | equinox_ | attach actor to unis |
| 13:35.04 | equinox_ | unit |
| 13:35.20 | equinox_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:35.27 | equinox_ | thats my testing setup |
| 13:35.43 | equinox_ | change archon to the bunker you want |
| 13:36.11 | equinox_ | with this setup the marine overhead should die if building dies |
| 13:36.40 | McHearty | lol |
| 13:36.42 | McHearty | this half worked |
| 13:36.44 | McHearty | the marine spawned |
| 13:36.51 | McHearty | but not all the way on top :P |
| 13:37.17 | McHearty | oop got it |
| 13:37.20 | McHearty | my mistake |
| 13:37.23 | equinox_ | ose attachment poin OVERHEAD no HEAD |
| 13:37.29 | equinox_ | not |
| 13:37.49 | equinox_ | this works like a charm it even changes the bunker selection stuff to the unit |
| 13:38.11 | equinox_ | and you only "select" the unit (the cicle) |
| 13:38.16 | McHearty | Elegant solution :D |
| 13:38.39 | equinox_ | i luv my triggers :) |
| 13:40.39 | McHearty | This is fantastic |
| 13:42.30 | McHearty | How would you go about adding a direction to face to that? |
| 13:42.51 | equinox_ | uhm |
| 13:43.44 | equinox_ | go to the marine actor and look in the functions for something actor facing point |
| 13:44.51 | equinox_ | but im not sure , i did discard the test setup |
| 13:45.03 | McHearty | Hmm |
| 13:45.27 | McHearty | So the first bunker I set up was for a marine, and when you select it, you only get the marine, the second for a ghost on top, and it selects the entire bunker o.O |
| 13:46.18 | equinox_ | now, this is strange |
| 13:46.32 | equinox_ | close and restart galaxy and see if that happens again |
| 13:47.08 | McHearty | Oh I see what I did |
| 13:47.11 | McHearty | Interesting |
| 13:47.17 | McHearty | If you change it to model instead of actor |
| 13:47.22 | McHearty | it gives you a different selection |
| 13:48.37 | McHearty | Model appears to be better |
| 13:48.56 | equinox_ | tanke whatever suits you better |
| 13:49.00 | equinox_ | :) |
| 13:50.59 | McHearty | Also, the wiki isn't clear on how to remove the fog of war, and it's not the same as sc1 :\ |
| 13:52.24 | equinox_ | i think the fow is a built in thing |
| 13:52.30 | equinox_ | but im not quite sure |
| 13:52.40 | equinox_ | to avoid use revealers |
| 13:52.44 | McHearty | I know you can remvoe it somehow because maps do this |
| 13:52.55 | equinox_ | create revealer (region point etc) |
| 13:52.56 | McHearty | But it doesn't appear to be the same as the old method |
| 13:53.23 | equinox_ | i have no idea what the old method was |
| 13:53.25 | equinox_ | ;) |
| 13:53.35 | McHearty | You placed revealers for every player |
| 13:53.37 | McHearty | all over the map :P |
| 13:54.23 | equinox_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:54.41 | McHearty | Visibility - Create a visibility revealer for player CurrentPlayer within Area |
| 13:55.06 | equinox_ | that should work , if you use it in a pick every player in group loop |
| 13:55.50 | equinox_ | uhm no , thats would be picked player |
| 13:56.07 | equinox_ | not quite sure what current player refers to |
| 13:57.37 | McHearty | hmm |
| 13:58.07 | equinox_ | what you want to do ? reveal for all or just one ? |
| 13:59.16 | McHearty | Reveal for all |
| 13:59.51 | equinox_ | within area should be (entire map ) |
| 14:01.02 | McHearty | entire map isn't valid |
| 14:01.04 | equinox_ | and run that action in a loop |
| 14:01.08 | equinox_ | mmm |
| 14:01.35 | equinox_ | entire map is in function |
| 14:01.43 | McHearty | I could make a region for the entire map |
| 14:01.46 | McHearty | and just point to that |
| 14:01.55 | equinox_ | the loops is something like pick each player in (active/all players) |
| 14:02.18 | equinox_ | sure but these functions are in it for a reason :) |
| 14:02.23 | McHearty | There |
| 14:02.25 | McHearty | I bypassed it |
| 14:02.30 | McHearty | through a cheap workaround |
| 14:02.38 | equinox_ | that how galaxy works |
| 14:02.45 | equinox_ | u awlways have more then one way |
| 14:02.57 | equinox_ | usually you have the trigger approach and the DE approach |
| 14:03.11 | equinox_ | and different ways in these approaches |
| 14:04.23 | equinox_ | theese |
| 14:08.10 | McHearty | http://i.imgur.com/x20p1.jpg |
| 14:08.15 | McHearty | lol silly bunkers |
| 14:10.24 | equinox_ | now, that look more like it :) |
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| 14:40.54 | Ashamed | ooooh shiz |
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| 15:05.09 | Batomys | Morning gents |
| 15:05.59 | Batomys | Do I even need to place Start Locations in a custom map? There isn't any traditional base building, the units don't even build structures in the normal sense |
| 15:07.11 | Batomys | Trying to narrow down reasons I am getting errors on publishing attempt, noticed players 12,13,14 don't have start locations, but they are only being used to create props |
| 15:08.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Telshin (~textual@67.58.77.206) |
| 15:12.55 | Batomys | My 'Game Attributes' menu is empty, do I need anything in here prior to publishing? |
| 15:18.00 | Ashamed | no you are good |
| 15:18.02 | Ashamed | what is the erro. |
| 15:18.16 | equinox_ | ye, you dont need starting pos |
| 15:19.13 | Batomys | The error was 'Could not validate defaulty game settings' or something very similar |
| 15:21.22 | Batomys | In the Game Variants menu, do I need to put all the players on teams, or only the human controlled ones? |
| 15:21.33 | equinox_ | im not sure whats wrong , try looking in file - dependencies you should have 4 at least |
| 15:21.48 | Batomys | It's a 4 player coop with one main enemy player, and 3-4 allied players that are controlled by CPU |
| 15:22.26 | Batomys | They are currently not on a team, 4 human players are on Team 1 and the one enemy player is on a Team 2. The other players are not assigned currently |
| 15:22.50 | equinox_ | that should not matter |
| 15:22.53 | equinox_ | like at all |
| 15:22.56 | Batomys | Hrrrm |
| 15:23.07 | Batomys | Ok, gonna try another upload attempt |
| 15:34.12 | Batomys | I noticed that every time I go into the Player Properties menu it reverts changes I have made in the Game Variants screen |
| 15:34.20 | Batomys | Argh |
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| 15:36.00 | A1win | yeah I noticed that too |
| 15:36.11 | A1win | it also sometimes screws up if you edit your map properties |
| 15:38.42 | Batomys | Default Attribute Values Could Not Be Validated: FAILED |
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| 15:39.51 | Batomys | The map works when I Test Document, everyone is on the correct team, etc. |
| 15:40.01 | Batomys | What "Default attribute values" could it be talking about |
| 15:45.29 | Batomys | I changed player 0 (neutral) from color white to color brown, could that be it? |
| 15:47.45 | equinox_ | all those team things and stuff shoould NOT affecting that at all |
| 15:48.07 | A1win | is there a way to change the width of a beam model? changing scale doesn't do anything |
| 15:48.26 | equinox_ | all that happens when you screw up ther is you map is broken (insta win/loose, attacking wrong players etc etc ) |
| 15:48.53 | Batomys | POS unhelpful error message, it might as well say "STUFF HAPPENED" |
| 15:49.43 | equinox_ | http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/777598125 |
| 15:49.52 | equinox_ | ist very old but maybe it works |
| 15:49.53 | A1win | also why does my unit with stalker beam model sometimes look like it's split in half and then the halves combined when it's created? the model doesn't have an animation like that |
| 15:50.00 | equinox_ | and it would mean i was wrong lol |
| 15:50.39 | equinox_ | @a1win , cant really help you with that DE stuff |
| 15:51.17 | equinox_ | try scaling the actor / mp3 not the animation |
| 15:51.30 | A1win | hmm? |
| 15:51.47 | A1win | I tried scaling the actor already |
| 15:52.06 | A1win | don't know how to edit the m3 |
| 15:52.20 | A1win | and can't be bothered to find out D: |
| 15:52.45 | A1win | well it's not that important anyway |
| 15:52.49 | Batomys | Hrrrm, so that thread suggests setting race settings in Player Properties is a No-no. INTUITIVE! |
| 15:52.53 | Batomys | Trying now. |
| 15:53.39 | equinox_ | mmm, nah the part i ment was have ONE player hostile / neutral |
| 15:57.38 | Batomys | Son of a beech |
| 15:57.41 | Batomys | Same damn error. |
| 15:59.12 | equinox_ | i looked a bit with googles help and it seems to be a known galaxy error with no standard fix |
| 15:59.31 | Batomys | I reset all the player properties to default and it uploaded immediately... |
| 15:59.41 | Batomys | I definitely had a neutral and a hostile player set though |
| 16:00.03 | Batomys | Silly stuff |
| 16:10.17 | Batomys | It is strange that by default player 0 and player 15 have an empty value for their 'Color' |
| 16:10.41 | Batomys | But once changed, it cannot be set back to this value, you can only set it to 'Any', which produces an error, necessitating a reset to default |
| 16:11.46 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ahli (~asdaaaaa@WL-POOL-W5-305.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) |
| 16:17.58 | equinox_ | what if you set the stuff as default (then it worked right ?) |
| 16:18.11 | equinox_ | and then change it with triggers on map init |
| 16:20.11 | Batomys | Is there any difference between "Open" and "Default (Open)" for Controller in the game variants menu? |
| 16:20.38 | equinox_ | no idea |
| 16:22.07 | A1win | the difference is that if they change the default value (which they probably wont), it would change in your map if you set it to Default |
| 16:22.32 | A1win | or something |
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| 16:24.46 | equinox_ | how can i change the size of text in dialogs ? |
| 16:25.04 | equinox_ | is there another method than style ? |
| 16:25.07 | A1win | use a different style |
| 16:25.12 | A1win | nope |
| 16:25.24 | A1win | or none that I'm aware of |
| 16:25.30 | equinox_ | kk |
| 16:25.31 | equinox_ | thx |
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| 16:27.30 | Mexa | http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/01/journey-video-review that game looks truly wonderful to play :D |
| 16:27.54 | Mexa | I only wish I owned a ps3. |
| 16:30.11 | Batomys | That's like wishing for Lupus |
| 16:30.48 | Mexa | huh? |
| 16:31.13 | equinox_ | lol |
| 16:31.47 | Mexa | Rephrasing then: I only wished it wasn't exclusive for the ps3. |
| 16:31.52 | Batomys | There ya go |
| 16:32.54 | Batomys | Argh, I go back in and change the Player Properties from default and I get the same error again. I made sure not to even LOOK at player 0 or player 15 |
| 16:33.05 | Batomys | Here's how the window looks: http://i41.tinypic.com/swpqah.jpg |
| 16:33.38 | Batomys | The image cuts off, but I also have decals defined for players 1,2,3,4,5,6 |
| 16:38.46 | equinox_ | as i said earlier i don't think there is something "wrong" with your setup |
| 16:39.12 | Batomys | Not wrong, but not right either. |
| 16:39.20 | equinox_ | i read that changing the color from pink to light pink or the other way aruond fixed it |
| 16:39.36 | equinox_ | so i think its a problem with galaxy |
| 16:39.45 | Batomys | Maybe I need to sacrifice a foal on an altar to Blizzard |
| 16:40.06 | equinox_ | now this is good thinkin !! |
| 16:40.08 | equinox_ | :D |
| 16:40.18 | Parthon | Batomys: interesting |
| 16:51.02 | Batomys | Well, I finally got the map on Battle.net. I'm going to be doing some 4 player testing this evening, around 6:00 Pacific time |
| 16:51.31 | Batomys | ~25 minutes of polished gameplay, it's just never been controlled by more than a single person |
| 16:52.43 | Ashamed | WHERE THE FUCK IS Gw2 INVITES |
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| 16:58.02 | equinox_ | hopw you dont have dialogs in your map |
| 16:58.25 | equinox_ | they get screwed up with more players on bnet very easy ^^ |
| 17:02.37 | Ashamed | people still make sc2 maps? |
| 17:03.25 | equinox_ | no, we just faking it |
| 17:05.22 | Batomys | Trying to, at any rate |
| 17:07.58 | Batomys | Hrrm, forgot about those two buttons that show up top right when on B.net. If I want to hide the "resource trading button", is that the "Cash Panel" option in the editor? |
| 17:08.08 | Batomys | There isn't a verbatim match |
| 17:10.20 | equinox_ | i think its this one |
| 17:10.21 | equinox_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.52 | Batomys | Ahh, didn't see that one, danke |
| 17:12.15 | equinox_ | ah auch n deutscher |
| 17:14.56 | A1win | hmm... stupid actor message warnings |
| 17:15.11 | A1win | how can I clear a tint color from an actor first checking if it has a tint color set? |
| 17:15.25 | A1win | if I try to clear it and it doesn't have it, I get a script error |
| 17:16.26 | equinox_ | idk |
| 17:16.28 | Batomys | I had a problem like that, built a Set Variable into the script so I would have something to check against if I had set it or not |
| 17:16.41 | A1win | hmm could do that |
| 17:16.55 | A1win | or can I... mmh |
| 17:17.12 | A1win | oh right |
| 17:17.38 | A1win | hehe, I'm not even supposed to clear it if it has multiple copies of the tint |
| 17:17.50 | A1win | so I need to keep track of how many beams are targeted on a unit... |
| 17:17.53 | A1win | yeah nevermind |
| 17:18.53 | Batomys | Oh I didn't even know you could stack tints, that is interesting |
| 17:20.42 | A1win | no you can't |
| 17:20.52 | A1win | well you can with different labels, but that's not what I mean |
| 17:20.54 | A1win | *meant |
| 17:21.18 | A1win | I have a setup where one unit can be targeted by multiple beams, and the beam sets its tint color |
| 17:21.45 | A1win | so when a beam is turned off, I clear the tint, but first I need to check if there are more beams on the unit so that I don't clear it in that case |
| 17:27.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-180-50.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 17:32.04 | Batomys | So, what is the deal with 'Locked' maps? I made a local copy of my map, saved it as another name and uploaded/locked the copy. |
| 17:32.22 | Batomys | I have yet to close that copy though and am still making changes... will I be able to do so, but only until I close it? |
| 17:34.24 | Batomys | Guess not, reopened it fine. I guess 'Lock' only pertains to the version you download through B.net? |
| 17:36.07 | equinox_ | as far as i can tell it only applies to the version u upload |
| 17:36.14 | equinox_ | not the local one you have |
| 17:36.52 | equinox_ | but i save my map as a new "version" everytime i get something finished |
| 17:36.57 | equinox_ | just to be sure ^^ |
| 17:57.09 | Parthon | Batomys! Batomys! Batomys! |
| 17:57.16 | Parthon | how long until you start testing |
| 17:58.43 | Batomys | I was planning on 6:00 PST |
| 17:58.51 | Parthon | I'm AWST |
| 17:59.15 | Batomys | Which region is that? 6 PST is... 8 hours from now |
| 17:59.24 | Batomys | Still 10 AM here atm |
| 17:59.42 | Parthon | aah okay |
| 17:59.49 | Parthon | it's 2am here, so +8 = 10am |
| 17:59.55 | Parthon | I should be able to be awake for that |
| 18:00.39 | Batomys | Very cool, I appreciate it |
| 18:01.31 | Batomys | AWST = Australia? |
| 18:01.50 | Parthon | yeah, Perth |
| 18:01.55 | Parthon | Australian Western |
| 18:02.04 | Parthon | gah, this map has my head in a twist |
| 18:02.58 | Batomys | Which one? |
| 18:04.39 | Parthon | a resource TD |
| 18:05.20 | Parthon | I was trying to randomise resources over an area, and it worked well, but it made the rest of the map hard to design, so now I'm using predefined locations, and seeing if that improves it |
| 18:05.40 | Batomys | Sounds cool, variety is nice |
| 18:07.50 | Parthon | had 24 tiles, each one could be minerals, gas, terrazine OR empty |
| 18:08.28 | Parthon | so it encouraged a different approach depending on where they appeared, but it wasn't satisfying, trying to create terrain for 24 square tiles was hard while keeping the map small |
| 18:08.29 | Batomys | Is there a min/max for each type, or can you end up with 24 of a single type if you are extremely unlucky? |
| 18:08.36 | Parthon | exactly 6 of each |
| 18:16.17 | JademusSreg | After ten-thousand years, I'm free! It's time to conquer Earth. |
| 18:16.38 | Parthon | earth sucks, go conquer mars |
| 18:17.40 | JademusSreg | Yeah, like dirt, rocks and permafrost would be fun to blast with plasma and lasers. |
| 18:18.29 | Batomys | Rita Repulsa! |
| 18:19.39 | Parthon | ... sone of a biiiiiiiitch |
| 18:20.21 | Parthon | after rearranging my map, I figured out how to make the randomness work |
| 18:20.51 | JademusSreg | Haha. |
| 18:22.16 | Batomys | Kind of sucks that Blizz isn't releasing the Arcade until months after HOTS releases... |
| 18:22.29 | Parthon | perfectly straight corridors in a TD, bad or good? |
| 18:22.34 | Batomys | The number of players will peak in the first two weeks and drop off quickly |
| 18:22.56 | Batomys | As they get tired of the game. 6 months after release it's going to be a ghost town, like it is now with WOL |
| 18:23.53 | JademusSreg | Parthon, perfectly straight creep paths reduces the amount of strategic depth. |
| 18:24.18 | Batomys | Yeah, I hate when creeps just walk in a square, or straight from top to bottom |
| 18:24.32 | Parthon | JademusSreg: oh, nor perfectly straight |
| 18:24.34 | Parthon | not* |
| 18:25.04 | Parthon | it's like an Z shape, but along the straight parts, flat as a board or slightly jaggy for that natural feel |
| 18:25.16 | Parthon | also, SC2 is really picky about how you use natural vs manmade walls |
| 18:25.29 | JademusSreg | Ah. Remind me, what is natural about a TD? =D |
| 18:25.41 | Parthon | nothing, nothing at all :P |
| 18:25.42 | Batomys | I painted some natural over manmade and there were lots of gaps, had to hide the ugliness with doodads |
| 18:25.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster Torhal (~callahan@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 18:26.23 | JademusSreg | I avoid using Blizzard cliffs; they just look ugly for most purposes. |
| 18:26.36 | Parthon | yeah, I'm noticing that |
| 18:26.42 | Parthon | how do you deal with terrain changes? |
| 18:26.50 | JademusSreg | Clarify. |
| 18:27.48 | Parthon | terrain height changes |
| 18:28.22 | JademusSreg | I usually deform the terrain mesh and use models to simulate cliffs. |
| 18:28.45 | Parthon | aaah okay |
| 18:36.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster AlphA_VsT (~Joeffect@c-67-188-153-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:40.20 | *** join/#sc2mapster Net_Creator (~Net_Creat@66.185.73.135) |
| 18:42.19 | Parthon | grrr |
| 18:44.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@f050137214.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:44.35 | AlphA_VsT | ? |
| 18:45.23 | Parthon | cliff mixing isn't very good unless it's all done relative to level 0 |
| 18:49.40 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 18:50.29 | Parthon | I mean level 1 |
| 18:58.48 | Batomys | I wish there were more than 3 default cliff levels |
| 18:59.03 | Batomys | 5 would be nice |
| 18:59.58 | Parthon | yeah, for sure |
| 19:00.25 | Batomys | I'd like to build a step pyramid map, like the Zul'Gurub finale in WoW |
| 19:05.06 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 19:08.01 | Parthon | or more like zim torga from the hinterlands? |
| 19:10.15 | Batomys | Yeah, would probably need at least 8 cliff levels to do it right though |
| 19:10.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Daara (62a8c8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.168.200.226) |
| 19:10.52 | Daara | i like when the captcha gives you an impossible word to type |
| 19:11.10 | Batomys | Yeah, I hit refresh at least once whenever I connect here |
| 19:12.01 | Batomys | Some of those words look like I'm browsing through the Ikea catalog |
| 19:12.52 | Daara | http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/Daara/lolwtfcaptcha.jpg |
| 19:12.58 | Daara | this one takes the cake for me |
| 19:13.33 | AlphA_VsT | you know only one word is true |
| 19:13.41 | AlphA_VsT | so you can type anything for the other |
| 19:14.32 | AlphA_VsT | just sayin |
| 19:15.07 | Daara | what is if wasn't theyersu! |
| 19:15.16 | Daara | and it was the other one |
| 19:15.42 | AlphA_VsT | :D |
| 19:16.09 | AlphA_VsT | then it would be :)uojl |
| 19:16.14 | AlphA_VsT | true shit |
| 19:16.19 | Daara | looks like arabic |
| 19:16.23 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 19:16.47 | Parthon | yeah |
| 19:18.23 | Ashamed | lol |
| 19:18.30 | Ashamed | daara that captcha is great |
| 19:18.37 | Daara | ุงูุฉูุณ |
| 19:18.44 | Daara | nope that's not it |
| 19:19.07 | Ashamed | close lo,l |
| 19:19.27 | AlphA_VsT | i already told you :)uojl, |
| 19:19.47 | AlphA_VsT | :D |
| 19:19.56 | Daara | i had another good one when i was trying to recover my hon account |
| 19:20.03 | Daara | it was Flick |
| 19:20.08 | Daara | but looked like Fuck |
| 19:20.12 | Parthon | bleh, where would I find something that looks like a ground beacon from sc1? |
| 19:20.21 | Daara | beacons |
| 19:20.37 | Ashamed | ... under beacons |
| 19:20.38 | Ashamed | lol |
| 19:20.44 | Parthon | unit? doodad? terrain? |
| 19:20.47 | Daara | unit |
| 19:20.55 | Daara | same as sc1 :P |
| 19:21.01 | Ashamed | :PP |
| 19:21.06 | Parthon | really? O_o |
| 19:21.11 | Daara | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4096586/ns/us_news-environment/t/thar-she-blows-dead-whale-explodes/#.T1EarPVdAtU |
| 19:21.21 | Daara | best part of this story is the last like 2 paragraphs |
| 19:21.21 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 19:21.37 | Parthon | sometimes the difference between units and doodads don't make sense |
| 19:21.59 | AlphA_VsT | why? |
| 19:22.04 | AlphA_VsT | a dooddad is only an actor |
| 19:22.22 | AlphA_VsT | how is that hard to understand? |
| 19:22.48 | Parthon | why is an antenna a doodad, but a terrazine refinery a unit? |
| 19:22.56 | Parthon | they both do nothing |
| 19:23.19 | Batomys | The L+I = U thing is classic, Comics in the US had to stop naming characters "Clint" for a long time because of it |
| 19:24.03 | Daara | Citizens gathered to remember a run over squirrel today for being frantic and indecisive. |
| 19:24.28 | Parthon | lol |
| 19:25.13 | Daara | I think because the terrazine refinery was used in the campaign |
| 19:25.19 | Daara | and you killed them |
| 19:25.27 | Daara | i can't remember |
| 19:25.41 | Daara | probably why it was a unit rather than a doodad |
| 19:26.09 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 19:26.25 | AlphA_VsT | cant attack something that is just a doodad |
| 19:26.45 | JademusSreg | (Doodads are slightly more than just an actor, but for most purposes it's safe to refer to them as such, because the API doesn't handle the doodad type.) |
| 19:27.03 | Parthon | not much more, but a unit can do lots of things |
| 19:27.21 | Parthon | and you can make a unit from a doodad actor/model if you wish, as long as it has the animations you want |
| 19:28.05 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 19:30.24 | Parthon | deleted a whole 50 line trigger |
| 19:30.30 | Parthon | thank god for ctrl-z |
| 19:31.00 | *** join/#sc2mapster StrangerDanger (~whois@206-248-179-188.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 19:31.49 | Batomys | Is there a way to change a player's HUD theme while in-game? From, say, Terran to Zerg |
| 19:32.07 | JademusSreg | No. |
| 19:32.21 | Batomys | Too bad, would nicely add to a segment where a player becomes infested |
| 19:32.35 | JademusSreg | Not unless you want to script the whole thing using dialogs and perhaps portraits. |
| 19:33.34 | Batomys | Sounds like a ton of work. Might just be easier to add on a couple of the Zerg frame chunks as image overlays |
| 19:34.31 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 19:34.42 | Parthon | haha, tip: enable the trigger you want to test ;) |
| 19:34.50 | AlphA_VsT | I hate that 0.o |
| 19:34.51 | Batomys | Pro-Tip |
| 19:35.26 | Parthon | mmm, 1 in 4 billion chance of an infinite loop |
| 19:35.41 | AlphA_VsT | not worth it |
| 19:35.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster Torhal (~callahan@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 19:37.09 | JademusSreg | Where does chance factor into an infinite loop? |
| 19:37.19 | Parthon | I tend to use a lot of code that's like "pick a number, while number is taken, pick another number" |
| 19:37.33 | Batomys | Apple HQ is located at #1 Infinte Loop |
| 19:37.50 | Parthon | I thought that was valve and the HL3 dev team |
| 19:38.07 | JademusSreg | Parthon, that's madness. |
| 19:38.09 | Parthon | JademusSreg: but there will always be a number left |
| 19:38.24 | Parthon | so the only time it can infinite loop is if it picks the same taken number over and over and over |
| 19:38.50 | Parthon | madness? this is game dev! |
| 19:38.51 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 19:39.09 | Net_Creator | Game dev? This is sc2mapster! |
| 19:39.11 | JademusSreg | Naw, I mean to say it is madness in the sense it is grossly inefficient. |
| 19:41.35 | Parthon | it only appears that way because the worst-case is so terrible |
| 19:41.49 | JademusSreg | Naw. |
| 19:41.52 | Parthon | and I've implimented other systems which don't use a loop, and they are even more inefficient |
| 19:42.08 | JademusSreg | What is the purpose of this loop? |
| 19:42.10 | Parthon | because of the overhead of maintaining datastructures |
| 19:42.33 | Parthon | 24 tiles, each tile can have a value of 0,1,2 or 3 |
| 19:42.49 | Parthon | and there's 6 lots of each value to give out |
| 19:43.23 | JademusSreg | It's like relying on a Bogus sort. Ridiculous. |
| 19:43.49 | Parthon | bogus sort? |
| 19:43.52 | Parthon | it's not a sort at all |
| 19:43.59 | JademusSreg | I'm aware. |
| 19:44.06 | Parthon | hehe |
| 19:44.10 | Parthon | it's a randomisation algorithm |
| 19:44.15 | Parthon | arrange this list into a random order |
| 19:47.48 | Parthon | most of the time though, when using the loop, it's not a nice list, often you are using random values to pick something, like a random location, and then testing suitability for that location, and doing that until you find a suitable one |
| 19:47.56 | Parthon | and having an eventual-exit if it takes too long |
| 19:50.12 | AlphA_VsT | random sort the array... |
| 19:51.20 | AlphA_VsT | look at the shuffle algorithms in the libraries |
| 19:51.46 | Parthon | err, yeah I know they exist |
| 19:51.51 | Mexa | I'd like to see if their shuffle is efficientr |
| 19:51.53 | Mexa | I'd like to see if their shuffle is efficient |
| 19:51.55 | Mexa | wups |
| 19:52.17 | Parthon | I only do it once per game on initialisation |
| 19:52.24 | Mexa | Is it one of those template functions they call it? |
| 19:52.28 | Mexa | Oh |
| 19:52.32 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 19:53.06 | Kueken | is there a way to make an actor or in general a footprint only collide with a specific collision layer? |
| 19:53.09 | AlphA_VsT | I use shuffle in my map generator |
| 19:53.12 | *** join/#sc2mapster Torhal (~callahan@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 19:53.16 | Kueken | for example only burrowed units? |
| 19:53.26 | Parthon | Kueken: I think so, not sure though |
| 19:53.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@p57903D3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:53.39 | RipperRoo | win 7 |
| 19:53.48 | Kueken | for units, thats easy, but I didnt found anything for footprints |
| 19:53.50 | RipperRoo | wrong channel -.- |
| 19:53.52 | Parthon | win 8, now with lame dubstep |
| 19:54.04 | RipperRoo | yeah didnt wanted to write it here :D |
| 19:54.22 | Parthon | nah, footprints must be applied to a unit which as the flags .. I think O_o |
| 19:54.39 | Parthon | testing my map, 0.0.2 |
| 19:54.59 | Kueken | I am pretty sure, footprints override any other pathing the unit uses |
| 19:55.01 | Parthon | great, works awesomely |
| 19:57.26 | Parthon | haha, too awesomely |
| 20:00.09 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@p5B29BD3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:01.09 | AlphA_VsT | what works? |
| 20:01.15 | Parthon | my new maplayout |
| 20:01.36 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@p5B29BD3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:02.50 | Parthon | the zerglings are too numerous though |
| 20:03.01 | Parthon | but, I'll call that a success |
| 20:03.10 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 20:03.32 | Parthon | I was having problems being able to design 24 tiny bases |
| 20:04.25 | Parthon | not enough room, awkward base positioning, aesthetics, etc |
| 20:04.35 | Mexa | Alpha, maybe you should consider using something else |
| 20:04.36 | Parthon | but now I just have to design 6 bases |
| 20:05.03 | Mexa | I'm not certin how good that function is, but I can look later |
| 20:06.30 | AlphA_VsT | lol :P |
| 20:06.39 | AlphA_VsT | i dont even work on that map |
| 20:07.22 | JademusSreg | Seems misunderstandings are afoot. |
| 20:07.34 | Parthon | haha |
| 20:07.41 | Parthon | Mexa: it's me using the randomisation |
| 20:07.58 | Parthon | and yeah, randomising arrays takes quite a bit of mips |
| 20:10.19 | Parthon | hmm |
| 20:10.27 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/a/Screenshot2012-03-02%2022_01_37.jpg |
| 20:10.29 | Parthon | I have a healer that transfers energy from one to another |
| 20:10.37 | Parthon | but sometimes they get into an infinite loop transfering to each other |
| 20:11.51 | AlphA_VsT | 0.o |
| 20:11.59 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 20:12.19 | Parthon | it looks awesome though |
| 20:12.43 | AlphA_VsT | put up a validator that says they cant transfer while being trasfed to |
| 20:12.57 | JademusSreg | Nice pews, A1. |
| 20:13.00 | Parthon | that would be perfect, but I'm not sure how to make a validator like that |
| 20:13.18 | Parthon | oooh, pretty pew pews |
| 20:13.22 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 20:14.37 | Parthon | the other solution would just be to stop the transfer beam after 4 seconds with a validator, but I don't know how to do that either :P |
| 20:17.41 | equinox_ | nice pews! |
| 20:22.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Shadow_Killer (~tekoppar@c-27b7e455.45-2102-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:27.16 | Parthon | grr, silly validators not behaving correctly |
| 20:27.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@78.97.99.188) |
| 20:28.39 | equinox_ | finally done with rewriting my lb as a dialog |
| 20:28.42 | equinox_ | :) |
| 20:29.05 | Parthon | is there a validator for "if target's target is not me" |
| 20:29.34 | AlphA_VsT | SO HUNGRY! |
| 20:29.48 | JademusSreg | ~hungry |
| 20:29.49 | purl | rumour has it, hungry is http://www.thehungersite.com/ or http://www.thehungersite.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/HungerSite or http://www.hungryminds.com/ |
| 20:30.15 | Parthon | it's a trap! |
| 20:30.33 | JademusSreg | Thanks, Admiral. |
| 20:33.55 | Batomys | What's the keyboard shortcut to hide the 'No Fly Zone' and 'Pathing Cliff Fill' text popups? |
| 20:34.43 | Batomys | I don't have them on my home comp, but they show up at work and no idea how to toggle |
| 20:34.58 | JademusSreg | Shift H or Shift P, I'd assume. |
| 20:35.15 | Parthon | hehe, the wiki is really sparse when it comes to validators |
| 20:35.20 | Batomys | H did it, woop |
| 20:36.54 | Parthon | ooh, you can validate to a requirement, neat |
| 20:42.57 | Parthon | I could just do it so that they can't transfer if they are being transfered to |
| 20:50.30 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 20:50.37 | AlphA_VsT | like i said :P |
| 20:51.31 | Parthon | AlphA_VsT: yeah, I thought you meant if they are being transfered to by that specific target |
| 20:52.25 | AlphA_VsT | no lol |
| 20:52.55 | AlphA_VsT | but then you could do that im sure |
| 20:53.02 | Parthon | and was having trouble getting the target's target :P |
| 20:53.12 | AlphA_VsT | do you set a buff? |
| 20:53.20 | Parthon | yes |
| 20:53.46 | AlphA_VsT | sure its possible |
| 20:54.03 | Parthon | read the caster/target from the buff? |
| 20:56.37 | Parthon | that didn't work at all, lol |
| 21:00.41 | Mexa | Hey Alpha, btw, the sorting you do in yur map |
| 21:00.47 | Mexa | is that integers? |
| 21:02.36 | Mexa | Oh never mind, their shuffle is fine. |
| 21:03.25 | Parthon | crap, I know exactly how to fix it |
| 21:03.55 | Parthon | AlphA_VsT: thanks for the help ^_^ |
| 21:07.36 | AlphA_VsT | lol mexa :D |
| 21:07.41 | AlphA_VsT | of course it is |
| 21:08.27 | Mexa | I wasn't expecting it to be good, quite frankly. |
| 21:09.11 | Batomys | Weird how I set my map speed to 'Normal', and it still defaults to 'Faster' when uploaded |
| 21:10.09 | AlphA_VsT | did you lock it |
| 21:10.55 | Batomys | Yeah, trying to 'remove' the other values and see what happens |
| 21:15.43 | Batomys | Well, it shows Normal now, but it it still moving at a much faster rate than it does when I launch it with 'test map' |
| 21:15.50 | Batomys | Significantly faster |
| 21:17.56 | Parthon | ability effects, do they all go, or is it a list of one per level of the ability? |
| 21:18.14 | JademusSreg | Level. |
| 21:18.33 | JademusSreg | If you want multiple effects, use a Set effect to apply other effects. |
| 21:19.31 | Parthon | gah, ty |
| 21:19.34 | Parthon | forgot the name of it |
| 21:19.49 | Parthon | erf, that didn't work either |
| 21:20.59 | Parthon | counter intuitive crap |
| 21:22.17 | Batomys | What the shit |
| 21:22.26 | Batomys | I set it to SLOWER, and it's still moving at almost 200% speed |
| 21:26.45 | Batomys | So, I've tried every game speed setting now and it always runs at the same Micro Machines guy super speed |
| 21:27.05 | Parthon | no it's not applying the buff :( |
| 21:27.16 | JademusSreg | I do not understand what you are saying. |
| 21:28.19 | Parthon | now* |
| 21:30.55 | Batomys | Game Attributes > Game Speed is a useless setting |
| 21:31.03 | Batomys | "Local testing always runs on 'normal', online custom maps seem locked to 'faster' *despite the setting you put it on.*" found this after a search. |
| 21:31.29 | Batomys | What cretin at Blizzard thought that this was a good idea to completely ignore this setting |
| 21:31.47 | JademusSreg | What issue is this causing exactly? |
| 21:33.00 | Batomys | Everything moves much faster than it should. Say unit A is supposed to move from point A to point B and it takes 4 seconds when testing locally, it now takes, say, 2.2 seconds. |
| 21:33.17 | JademusSreg | (Faster game speed is 40% faster.) |
| 21:33.35 | JademusSreg | What about that is problematic? |
| 21:33.45 | Batomys | It's like watching it on fast forward |
| 21:33.51 | AlphA_VsT | you can set the game speed when you test a map |
| 21:33.55 | AlphA_VsT | in preferances |
| 21:33.57 | AlphA_VsT | 0.o |
| 21:34.16 | Batomys | It's on default, to normal, as it always has been. |
| 21:34.23 | JademusSreg | You can also set game speed via trigger. I've not tested it on battlenet though. |
| 21:34.24 | Batomys | Maybe I can overried with a map init trigger action |
| 21:34.56 | Batomys | But either way, it is ridiculous that the setting in the variants menu doesn't do a damn thing |
| 21:35.19 | JademusSreg | Sure, but then hardly anyone changes the speed, anyway. =D |
| 21:39.58 | Batomys | Phew, that worked |
| 21:40.51 | Parthon | you beat it up? |
| 21:44.58 | A1win | hmm interesting |
| 21:45.04 | Parthon | far out blizzard, you suck |
| 21:45.06 | A1win | Wait(0) is different from Wait(0.0625) |
| 21:45.24 | AlphA_VsT | no really? |
| 21:45.44 | A1win | Wait(0) seems to wait for 1/32 second but the time remains the same |
| 21:45.51 | A1win | I mean |
| 21:45.57 | AlphA_VsT | .0312 |
| 21:45.57 | JademusSreg | Wait(0,c_timeGame) is the same as Wait(0.03125,c_timeGame) |
| 21:46.23 | A1win | then what is Wait(0)? |
| 21:46.30 | AlphA_VsT | .0312 |
| 21:46.32 | JademusSreg | 0.03125 |
| 21:46.39 | A1win | ah |
| 21:46.57 | A1win | someone's been spreading false info then :I |
| 21:47.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@p5B29BD3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:47.13 | A1win | however |
| 21:47.21 | JademusSreg | 1/0.0312 = 32.051282051282051282051282051282; 1/0.03125 = 32; |
| 21:47.52 | Batomys | I thought thr least it could wait was .0625, one game loop |
| 21:47.58 | A1win | I have a loop with Wait(0) that uses unit positions and mission time, and they are the same on every second run of that loop |
| 21:48.27 | A1win | so it seems that it doesn't really benefit to use Wait(0) over Wait(0.0625) unless you want to repeat the same state twice, or something |
| 21:49.18 | JademusSreg | A Wait(0,c_timeGame) or a Wait(0.03125) will wait exactly one engine tick, 1/32 game seconds. |
| 21:49.48 | JademusSreg | Most things are updated in increments of 1/16 games seconds, 0.0625. |
| 21:50.26 | JademusSreg | The exceptions include missile trajectory visuals and threads that wait that very short duration. |
| 21:50.29 | *** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-180-50.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:50.49 | A1win | ah, k |
| 21:52.23 | A1win | bah our math is failing, the sine missiles go too far :I |
| 21:52.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster KatFromNY (50a204ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.162.4.237) |
| 21:52.58 | KatFromNY | Finally back. |
| 21:53.09 | A1win | I'll just put a imperically discovered multiplier that makes it look like it goes where it's supposed to <.< |
| 21:53.11 | JademusSreg | The difference between game and real time is important. |
| 21:53.41 | A1win | oh right, I was confusing with the function parameters |
| 21:53.54 | A1win | didn't remember it always has that as the parameter |
| 21:53.59 | JademusSreg | Each value removed from normal is a 20% flat difference. |
| 21:54.01 | A1win | but yeah it's been game time all the time |
| 21:54.21 | JademusSreg | Fast 1.2, Faster 1.4. |
| 21:54.39 | KatFromNY | Who plays on normal gamespeed lol. |
| 21:54.57 | KatFromNY | Normal gamespeed is so unnormal.. |
| 21:55.06 | JademusSreg | Iknowrite? |
| 21:55.37 | KatFromNY | If a unit has an unit flag set to invurnable, can I still make the unit vurnable through triggers? |
| 21:55.39 | JademusSreg | Normal is unbearably slow, relative to melee gameplay. |
| 21:55.50 | JademusSreg | Should be able, Kat. |
| 21:55.58 | JademusSreg | UnitSetState, I'd guess. |
| 21:56.49 | KatFromNY | Might just do it the other way around to be sure. It's the same hassle none the less. |
| 21:58.11 | KatFromNY | Next question for JademusSreg here tonight on 20 Q's .. The annoying sound that comes when you click an unit. Where is that in the data editor. What is it called? E.g. clicking a command center result in an annoying scanning sound. |
| 21:58.47 | JademusSreg | It's in the actor. |
| 21:59.08 | KatFromNY | Damn you actor! |
| 21:59.16 | A1win | yay now my sine missiles are cool, they first cross the straight line from source to target at the position where the cursor was when they were launched |
| 21:59.26 | JademusSreg | Sounds field array. |
| 21:59.41 | A1win | so if you keep your cursor on an enemy ship, the trajectories look like this: () |
| 22:00.09 | JademusSreg | What collision detection method are you using? |
| 22:01.09 | A1win | triggers atm, maybe I should switch to an autocast ability or something |
| 22:01.15 | A1win | but it failed the last time I tried :I |
| 22:01.37 | JademusSreg | Well, you don't need triggers unless you exceed the speed limit. |
| 22:02.17 | JademusSreg | You can use autocast, perhaps, or a periodic behavior with a search area effect. |
| 22:02.44 | A1win | I need the trigger to do all the pathing alteration stuff too so might as well check the collisions with it |
| 22:03.09 | JademusSreg | Or if all the collision detection is done from the "collidee" triggers are acceptable, they work, but that's a lot of wasted threads on something better handled by data. |
| 22:03.50 | KatFromNY | Jademus, you mind looking at the command centers actor and confirm if it's the Sound: Sounds - that makes the annoying sound when selected. |
| 22:03.53 | A1win | I just have a huge loop that checks every projectile every game tick ;p |
| 22:04.10 | KatFromNY | The only other sound referance I can find if labeled sound: placement sound. |
| 22:04.49 | JademusSreg | Sound: Sounds+ : CommandCenter_What |
| 22:05.20 | KatFromNY | If I delete the entire list of sound in response to things. It'll stay quiet right? |
| 22:05.57 | JademusSreg | A1, that's a fine approach if you will potentially exceed the speed limit and require linear interpolation. But if not, it's pretty wasteful. |
| 22:06.10 | JademusSreg | Kat, set them all to None. |
| 22:07.00 | JademusSreg | A1, the speed limit is speedLimit = (radius*2)*(1/period)) for approaches not using linear interpolation. |
| 22:07.16 | KatFromNY | I deleted them all, and it still gives that annoying sound! |
| 22:07.22 | A1win | I don't think that will be an issue |
| 22:08.17 | KatFromNY | Removing all the actor Command_centers sounds+ doesn't change anything. |
| 22:08.17 | A1win | but anyway I tried having an autocast ability on the missiles, and for some reason they weren't casting them |
| 22:08.26 | A1win | so I gave up on trying to figure out why xO |
| 22:08.28 | JademusSreg | I'm merely pointing out that scripting collision detection without needing linear interpolation is wasteful, and could be better handled by data. |
| 22:08.57 | A1win | what's linear interpolation? xF |
| 22:09.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Net_Creator (~Net_Creat@66.185.73.135) |
| 22:10.16 | KatFromNY | Meh, I already feel I'm going to be tippy tonight, forced to use my boyfriends computer, and I'm misstyping every word cuz he has a weiiird keyboard. |
| 22:10.29 | A1win | mmh any ideas for more laser/plasma weapon models than stalker missile and photon cannon missile |
| 22:10.31 | JademusSreg | You'd perform a linear search ahead of the object relative to the object's speed and direction to detect objects with which it will collide. |
| 22:10.51 | A1win | ah |
| 22:11.25 | A1win | I need another ball shaped weapon |
| 22:11.28 | A1win | *missile |
| 22:11.49 | Mexa | That's not linear interpolation by definition, but for what you are talking about, eg the collision, I suppose it is relevant enough. |
| 22:11.51 | A1win | or maybe I'll just change the size of this and give it a tint |
| 22:12.08 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 22:12.22 | KatFromNY | Finally the damn building would shut up. |
| 22:12.26 | JademusSreg | I might be compulsively technical, but no compulsively over-technical. |
| 22:12.56 | JademusSreg | Imagine if you had to account for spin. |
| 22:12.58 | JademusSreg | Hahaha |
| 22:13.38 | Mexa | [23:10] <JademusSreg> You'd perform a linear search ahead of the object relative to the object's speed and direction to detect objects with which it will collide. -Also, I thought thatway called raytracing:P |
| 22:13.42 | AlphA_VsT | lot of weapons that are balls :P |
| 22:13.43 | Mexa | *was |
| 22:14.37 | KatFromNY | Traceliner? |
| 22:14.51 | JademusSreg | Sure. |
| 22:15.07 | KatFromNY | Thank God I'm not working on a FPS map. |
| 22:15.17 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 22:15.23 | KatFromNY | 3D Traceliner is |
| 22:15.29 | Mexa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line%E2%80%93sphere_intersection |
| 22:15.34 | JademusSreg | I should hope most people have given up that ghost for SC2 maps. |
| 22:15.47 | Mexa | What you were referring to Jademus, yes? |
| 22:15.55 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 22:16.05 | Mexa | with the exclusion of it might not being a sphere |
| 22:16.12 | KatFromNY | Honestly, I like the editor. But It's severely limited in forms of 1st person shooting, and even smooth movement. |
| 22:16.17 | JademusSreg | Hm, not quite, but close. |
| 22:16.28 | Mexa | But it probably is, considering units have a radius |
| 22:16.34 | Mexa | mm |
| 22:16.45 | JademusSreg | The 250 ms minimum latency imposed makes any decent FPS impossible. |
| 22:16.53 | AlphA_VsT | yeah it does |
| 22:17.15 | KatFromNY | Genre: FPS -- Mode: FPL (First Person Lucker)ยจ |
| 22:17.18 | JademusSreg | No matter how well designed, it simply wouldn't be -crunchy- enough. |
| 22:17.36 | AlphA_VsT | yeah 0.o |
| 22:17.37 | Mexa | It's funny though, I think I have more latency than that on OnLive, yet the games are decently playable. |
| 22:17.49 | JademusSreg | Doom running on a Texas Instruments calculator would be arguably more crunchy. |
| 22:17.49 | Mexa | Or roughly, it kind of reminds exactly of battle.net <.< |
| 22:18.00 | AlphA_VsT | haha |
| 22:18.07 | KatFromNY | What about driving games, aren't they also heavily nerfed by the smooth moment limit? I never tried making one. |
| 22:18.13 | JademusSreg | Ask Mexa. =D |
| 22:18.51 | Mexa | It works, decently |
| 22:19.10 | Mexa | It runs smooth, there's no problem about that |
| 22:19.25 | Mexa | The only defect at the moment is the latency |
| 22:20.00 | Mexa | And perhaps the triggers required to be ran syncronously, hence some more latency involved. |
| 22:20.14 | AlphA_VsT | :D |
| 22:20.36 | Mexa | Hey Jademus, did you run any test with waits vs periodic events, per chance? |
| 22:21.26 | Mexa | Since a wait does not mean the trigger needs to syncronously start, at the same way as an event triggers it to. |
| 22:21.38 | JademusSreg | Calrify? |
| 22:21.45 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 22:21.50 | JademusSreg | Clarify. |
| 22:22.12 | Mexa | "Triggers are syncronous" |
| 22:22.28 | JademusSreg | I would expect little difference between a periodic 0.0625 and a loop wait 0.0625. |
| 22:22.41 | Mexa | Does that mean that every action, function call or whatever within the trigger is send syncronized as well? |
| 22:22.47 | Mexa | *sent |
| 22:22.55 | JademusSreg | I would expect as much. |
| 22:23.04 | Mexa | Oh, well okay |
| 22:23.09 | Mexa | Then it was nothing. |
| 22:24.11 | KatFromNY | Hey you guys mind taking a look at my map, maybe help me with an issue or two I'm having afterwards. |
| 22:24.37 | tampa1adam | if u dont mind us stealing it and making our own out of it sure |
| 22:24.44 | tampa1adam | lol jk |
| 22:24.52 | Mexa | Like anyone would do that here. |
| 22:24.52 | equinox_ | hehe |
| 22:25.04 | KatFromNY | TBH if you steal it and put it up, go for it. Just make to steal the updates I make too :) |
| 22:25.08 | Mexa | looks suspiciously. |
| 22:25.10 | equinox_ | thats the reason to be in this chat isnt it ^^ |
| 22:25.36 | tampa1adam | lol as long as it's a decent version of ur map ur ok with it kat? commendable |
| 22:25.53 | KatFromNY | Sure. |
| 22:26.02 | KatFromNY | What's the difference on who uploads it? |
| 22:26.06 | Mexa | Needs more Game of Thrones. Seeya! |
| 22:26.19 | KatFromNY | Do you feel better, knowing it's your upload, or better knowing it's your game? |
| 22:26.27 | equinox_ | KARMA lol |
| 22:26.43 | equinox_ | what kind of map we talkin and which rtegion u on ? |
| 22:27.10 | KatFromNY | I'm on Europa, also known as the ghost zone. No one ever plays. |
| 22:27.30 | Mexa_ | What? But the first map on the list has 21000 hours played |
| 22:27.58 | equinox_ | in on EU 2 |
| 22:28.05 | KatFromNY | And the second one has 2 minutes. |
| 22:28.09 | equinox_ | lol |
| 22:28.11 | KatFromNY | Cuz' someone missclicked. |
| 22:28.19 | Mexa_ | Lol |
| 22:28.19 | KatFromNY | And went afk for two minutes. |
| 22:28.26 | Mexa_ | You don't need to exaggerate |
| 22:28.45 | KatFromNY | http://www.2shared.com/file/Xq8WmeZc/GalconConfusion.html |
| 22:29.06 | Mexa_ | No dropbox :\? |
| 22:29.15 | KatFromNY | It's nothing fancy, and won't really make sense when you play alone. But steal away if you just ask for an update every now and then lol! |
| 22:29.16 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 22:29.38 | KatFromNY | Actually, you should upload it, and try to play with someone. |
| 22:29.53 | equinox_ | im on bnet right now |
| 22:29.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (442ccc3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.44.204.59) |
| 22:30.00 | equinox_ | if you want to run a test or 2 |
| 22:30.01 | KatFromNY | Playing alone doesn't make sense. Playing with several people is chaos. |
| 22:30.02 | Bounty | Hay Guyz |
| 22:30.05 | equinox_ | equinox.238 |
| 22:30.08 | JademusSreg | Hi Bounty. |
| 22:30.12 | KatFromNY | Equinox what region, EU? |
| 22:30.17 | equinox_ | EU |
| 22:30.23 | Bounty | JademusSreg, the map is playable with 14 players now |
| 22:30.26 | Mexa_ | Huge step between #1 and #2 on EU... 17000 vs 8000 |
| 22:30.27 | Bounty | respawning etc |
| 22:30.34 | Bounty | we need to gather people to see how it runs >< |
| 22:30.39 | JademusSreg | Neato. I had some suggestions. |
| 22:30.47 | Bounty | all ears |
| 22:30.50 | Mexa_ | Bounty, what, you sat up all day long working on your map? |
| 22:30.53 | Batomys | How does one release their map on both US and EU? Do you have to purchase a copy of the EU game as well? |
| 22:30.57 | Mexa_ | *all night long |
| 22:31.00 | KatFromNY | Equinox, hold on. Not sure what one I'm on. |
| 22:31.00 | JademusSreg | Entirely data based, so there should be no conflict. |
| 22:31.02 | Bounty | No Mexa, its been rdy for playtesting since last night |
| 22:31.14 | Mexa_ | oh,' |
| 22:31.26 | Bounty | i mean.. theres almost no UI and the game doesnt end |
| 22:31.28 | Bounty | but its playable lol |
| 22:31.43 | Bounty | i was thinking about making it so you are ALWAYS shooting JademusSreg |
| 22:31.52 | Mexa_ | Batomys, yes, you need a copy of the game for each region, which is kind of silly |
| 22:31.52 | Bounty | like, make it not click based |
| 22:31.57 | Bounty | and just constant |
| 22:32.11 | Mexa_ | But you'll more likely find someone that can publish it on another region too. |
| 22:32.16 | equinox_ | @ batomys : either that or ask somehone to host it in different region |
| 22:32.16 | JademusSreg | Basically, more attack options. Each ability would have hotkey, so it works without increasing latency, and instant ability type. |
| 22:32.52 | Bounty | Well yeah, but the idea was powerups remember? |
| 22:32.57 | KatFromNY | Equinox, I'm Deev. Well I'm using that account. |
| 22:32.59 | Bounty | you level your weapon |
| 22:33.05 | Bounty | and it becomes more powerful |
| 22:33.06 | Mexa_ | Hmm |
| 22:33.15 | Bounty | its more of a defensive game, since ur always shooting |
| 22:33.21 | Bounty | u gotta be good at dodging all the bullets |
| 22:33.29 | Mexa_ | It would have been great it Blizzard allowed to sort the list after the amount of bookmarks of the game too. |
| 22:33.39 | Bounty | but what do u think about what i said JademusSreg? |
| 22:33.43 | Bounty | about the shooting |
| 22:33.44 | Mexa_ | After all, that tells something about how people find the game favorable. |
| 22:34.20 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 22:37.23 | Batomys | I'm out for a bit. Be back in about 3 hours for some multiplayer testing |
| 22:37.50 | Batomys | Stay classy! |
| 22:38.22 | KatFromNY | As you can see, with two players it's pretty bland. But if you're more than three it's chaotic. You have to watch your planets not to get ambushed. |
| 22:38.32 | equinox_ | nice map KatFromNY |
| 22:38.59 | equinox_ | with 3 its very small i would imagine |
| 22:39.34 | KatFromNY | Even more so with six. I didn't want to go too large, I like the feeling of having to keep rotating planets with the other players. |
| 22:40.03 | KatFromNY | There's def. some issues I haven't solved yet. Including the sound when the ships hit the planets, the music, loading screen, and so .. |
| 22:40.07 | equinox_ | i think they feel a bit close |
| 22:40.19 | equinox_ | (either too big or fighters too fast) |
| 22:40.40 | equinox_ | oh i didnt notice since i have loud music ^^ |
| 22:41.55 | equinox_ | but ye its a neat little map! |
| 22:42.02 | equinox_ | and the basics wortk great |
| 22:42.11 | KatFromNY | What I like about it is, it takes less than a moment to figure out how to play. |
| 22:43.07 | KatFromNY | The worst issue is, when a player sends ships from a planet, to the same planet. The vikings get stuck on patrol on the planet. |
| 22:43.18 | KatFromNY | Since they never leave the region they can't trigger entering the region. |
| 22:43.33 | equinox_ | how big are the regions ? |
| 22:43.50 | equinox_ | ah nowi get it |
| 22:44.00 | KatFromNY | About the size of the planet. Five to be specific. |
| 22:44.35 | KatFromNY | But they are created inside the region and are killed when they enter another region. But if the player spawns them on the planet itself, they go into a patrol flower on the planet, inside it's region. |
| 22:44.44 | equinox_ | it should match exact |
| 22:45.09 | KatFromNY | Doesn't matter how large it is. They will still spawn inside the region. |
| 22:45.24 | equinox_ | you could bypass that with an periodic trigger checking all units onfield if in region |
| 22:45.54 | Bounty | never use a periodic trigger |
| 22:45.59 | equinox_ | lol |
| 22:46.00 | Bounty | just use a loop within an action definition |
| 22:46.23 | KatFromNY | But if I do that, won't that result in a check, and finding those units that just spawned too? |
| 22:46.29 | KatFromNY | Before they leave their spawning region. |
| 22:46.47 | equinox_ | true |
| 22:47.08 | KatFromNY | I was THINKING of a solution. I'm just not brave enough to try. |
| 22:47.32 | equinox_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:47.43 | equinox_ | ? |
| 22:47.54 | equinox_ | what you thinkin about? |
| 22:48.14 | KatFromNY | Adding a buff with a couple of seconds durration to a unit. |
| 22:48.30 | KatFromNY | When the buff runs out, remove the unit. And when a unit leaves a region remove the debuff, before it removes the unit. |
| 22:48.34 | equinox_ | ye, thats what i thought of |
| 22:48.44 | equinox_ | oh |
| 22:48.47 | KatFromNY | But I'm not experienced enough to pull that off. |
| 22:49.08 | KatFromNY | I've got a second solution. |
| 22:49.13 | equinox_ | i would like to help but thats DE stuff |
| 22:49.24 | equinox_ | and i am not experienced with the DE |
| 22:49.32 | KatFromNY | Instead of actually using the patrol command, I could use move. |
| 22:49.55 | KatFromNY | If you move your fighters to same planet, they will go inactive ones reaching the move. And I think there's a trigger called unit becomes inactive or something, idle. |
| 22:51.11 | KatFromNY | Might try that out. |
| 22:51.16 | A1win | any idea why these units with stalker weapon missile model sometimes look like they're being assembled together from two copies of itself when the unit is created? |
| 22:51.47 | KatFromNY | When they are spawned, or warped in? |
| 22:51.58 | equinox_ | ye there is an event i think for idle units |
| 22:51.59 | A1win | I create them with triggers |
| 22:52.24 | KatFromNY | Not sure then. I could figure the warp in would have some effect like that. But creating should just "place" it. |
| 22:54.03 | A1win | looks like some kind of a glitch, but dunno |
| 22:54.23 | equinox_ | my guess is that it has to do with the fact that the stalker weapon are 2 beams |
| 22:54.36 | Kueken | the stalker weapon is one projectile |
| 22:54.53 | Kueken | it just has a birth animation, which looks like 2 beams get together |
| 22:54.56 | equinox_ | ah ok i din'T know that |
| 22:54.58 | A1win | I only use the model of it, and it has only one animation |
| 22:55.03 | Kueken | if you don't want that, skip the birth animation |
| 22:55.08 | A1win | does it? |
| 22:55.19 | Kueken | well, if its only one animation |
| 22:55.23 | Kueken | set its completion |
| 22:55.34 | Kueken | but I assume it is a separate one |
| 22:55.34 | KatFromNY | If it's a huge issue, can't you create, hide, wait 0.0012 seconds and then unhide? |
| 22:55.40 | A1win | but it's not a birth animation |
| 22:55.42 | equinox_ | @katfromny the move order might be the easier way |
| 22:56.00 | Kueken | you can set the completion percentage of an animation |
| 22:56.54 | A1win | it just seems to have a 1 second long Stand animation |
| 22:57.36 | A1win | or hmm |
| 22:57.37 | A1win | oh |
| 22:57.55 | A1win | yeah it does that >_> |
| 22:58.00 | Kueken | yes, indeed |
| 22:58.00 | A1win | nvm then |
| 22:58.22 | Kueken | set it to like 75% completion and freeze it afterwards |
| 22:58.23 | A1win | it was just weird that it only showed up like that sometimes and not all the time |
| 22:58.51 | KatFromNY | Stalkers are weird, period. |
| 22:58.55 | AlphA_VsT | very |
| 23:00.51 | KatFromNY | The scan move, attack, a click movement thing. Is it called "Attack" in the abilities, or is there a scan attack. |
| 23:03.44 | A1win | I'm trying to set the animation paused but it stil plays x_X |
| 23:04.05 | KatFromNY | Might want to call up Zeratul and ask what's up with that. |
| 23:06.05 | A1win | err... if I add an ActorCreation event with AnimPlay Stand, it plays the stand animation again after it's played it once |
| 23:06.40 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 23:07.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster tigger0jk (~tigger0jk@dynamic2-247-010.usc.edu) |
| 23:07.43 | JademusSreg | Back. |
| 23:08.04 | KatFromNY | Did you ever get a chance to look at my map Jademusserg? |
| 23:09.23 | JademusSreg | Nope. Busy. What sort of issues are you having? |
| 23:09.54 | KatFromNY | Nothing at the moment, ah, a slight weird thing with the sound, but nothing I really worry about now. |
| 23:13.10 | A1win | bleh can't figure out how to skip the stalker missile's animation to the end |
| 23:16.13 | A1win | it appears as if it has variation in the animation but the previewer doesn't show any variations D: |
| 23:16.47 | JademusSreg | Particle variation. |
| 23:17.20 | A1win | oh |
| 23:17.26 | JademusSreg | Not a separate animation, but rather a randomness in the range of values, like the positions at which the particles spawn. |
| 23:17.43 | A1win | any way to control that? |
| 23:17.50 | JademusSreg | Nope. |
| 23:17.53 | A1win | :I |
| 23:18.15 | A1win | any other missile models that are similar to the stalker one? |
| 23:18.40 | JademusSreg | What is it you're trying to do? |
| 23:19.50 | A1win | just need different kinds of models for my projectiles, the stalker missile is otherwise good but looks weird when spawned when the particles "assemble" together sometimes |
| 23:24.16 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [-bb *!*@repos.curseforge.net Repo!*@*] by prencher |
| 23:25.22 | A1win | yay hybrid has a missile model |
| 23:28.14 | KatFromNY | Meerrrr.. I'm still not sure how I restrict the rally point, to only be used on buildings, and not on air. |
| 23:28.17 | A1win | except that it looks like crap |
| 23:28.17 | KatFromNY | (ground) |
| 23:30.19 | JademusSreg | Rally is an ability. Couldn't you simply change its targeting parameters? Or are there quirks? |
| 23:30.39 | AlphA_VsT | yeah but its weird |
| 23:30.45 | KatFromNY | Looking, I'll ask stupid questions in a moment. |
| 23:30.49 | AlphA_VsT | its liek more 0.o |
| 23:30.53 | AlphA_VsT | like move |
| 23:32.15 | JademusSreg | It's got an Info+ array. |
| 23:32.23 | JademusSreg | With filters. |
| 23:32.27 | KatFromNY | I'm clueless. Please look and tell me where the value is. I'm opening the abilitiy commands, and there's four different ones. Rally 1, Rally 2, Rally 3, Rally 4. |
| 23:32.52 | JademusSreg | Double click on Rally 1. |
| 23:33.01 | KatFromNY | Opening the rally 1 - set rally point. And there's a lot of options there, I'm thinking it's here. |
| 23:33.13 | JademusSreg | Toward the bottom. |
| 23:33.45 | KatFromNY | The "Info - Filters" ? |
| 23:34.01 | JademusSreg | I'm going to hope Info - Filters (Set) is used for filtering targets. |
| 23:34.12 | KatFromNY | But there's also the filter use, hah. |
| 23:34.37 | KatFromNY | & Above, there's Info - Set on Ground enabled. |
| 23:34.39 | JademusSreg | Info - Filters (Use) is obviously a filter for which units produced by the structure use the rally point. |
| 23:35.04 | JademusSreg | So the (Use) we can deduce is not what needs to be modified. =D |
| 23:35.40 | JademusSreg | For (Set) set it to Required for Ground. |
| 23:36.03 | KatFromNY | I don't want people using the ability on ground, only on buildings. |
| 23:36.14 | JademusSreg | Then set Structure Required. |
| 23:36.21 | JademusSreg | And leave Ground Enabled. |
| 23:36.26 | KatFromNY | Alright. I'm guessing that's all? |
| 23:36.33 | JademusSreg | Hopefully. |
| 23:36.34 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 23:37.50 | KatFromNY | No effect. |
| 23:37.58 | JademusSreg | Odd. |
| 23:39.03 | KatFromNY | I've tried it before without any success. |
| 23:39.42 | KatFromNY | Going try with both use and set now. |
| 23:40.20 | KatFromNY | No effect. |
| 23:41.35 | JademusSreg | Which ability are you changing and which is on the unit in question? |
| 23:43.11 | KatFromNY | A flying command center, with enabled rally from the normal command center. |
| 23:43.27 | KatFromNY | When I tried this to begin with I was using a normal command center, without any effect either. It's the "Set rally point" |
| 23:43.49 | JademusSreg | I'm refering to ability ids. |
| 23:44.24 | KatFromNY | Not sure what that is. |
| 23:44.31 | A1win | yay three different weapons now |
| 23:45.16 | A1win | one that shoots slow, big balls in a straight line, one shoots two lasers in a straight line, but so that if fired towards an enemy who's shooting with Big Balls then the balls go between the lasers |
| 23:45.18 | JademusSreg | The unit in question, what does it say in the field Ability: Abilities+ ? |
| 23:45.24 | A1win | and the third is the sine thing |
| 23:45.54 | JademusSreg | Sounds cool, A1. Got a screenshot with each one firing? |
| 23:47.09 | A1win | sec |
| 23:47.23 | KatFromNY | I removed the standard move and so. The only one it has now are the "Command Center - Rally" |
| 23:48.55 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/a/Screenshot2012-03-03%2001_48_09.jpg |
| 23:48.56 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/a/Screenshot2012-03-03%2001_48_25.jpg |
| 23:49.22 | JademusSreg | You removed Move from the structure, alright. And what is the purpose of the Rally? The flying structure produces units, and those units rally to the designated structure, yes? |
| 23:49.42 | A1win | the sine weapon changes wave length based on where it's targeted |
| 23:50.13 | KatFromNY | Something like it yes. The trigger event " Unit - Any Unit uses Set Rally Point at Generic1 - Any stage (Ignore shared abilities)" - Then runs a trigger to produce units. |
| 23:50.34 | KatFromNY | I can send you the map if you want. |
| 23:51.34 | JademusSreg | Sweet work, A1. |
| 23:52.08 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/a/Screenshot2012-03-03%2001_51_10.jpg |
| 23:52.09 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/a/Screenshot2012-03-03%2001_51_16.jpg |
| 23:52.14 | JademusSreg | Naw, I've got my own projects. But why would you produce units from a trigger? Or do you mean you issue train orders from the trigger? |
| 23:52.16 | A1win | http://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/a/Screenshot2012-03-03%2001_51_25.jpg |
| 23:52.58 | KatFromNY | When a player sets the rally point, it creates and sends unit to that point. The only problem is that I don't want people setting the rally point onto the air. |
| 23:53.15 | A1win | then I also have the debuff beam, which can be interrupted by teleporting out, or by teleporting into someone else's beam to protect your team mate |
| 23:54.03 | A1win | defensive abilities need some ideas... |
| 23:54.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster Xaragoth (~name@ip-78-94-83-96.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 23:55.45 | JademusSreg | It seems odd that you'd use a rally point for that. If the caster isn't producing the units, then you needn't restrict yourself to a rally ability. You could instead make your own ability of Effect - Target type. |
| 23:56.49 | JademusSreg | And it wouldn't really need to do much of anything, since it's just a signal to the trigger. |
