| 18:03.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster purl (~purl@rikers.org) |
| 18:03.25 | *** topic/#sc2mapster is http://sc2mapster.com | sc2mapster bnet2 channel | Themed Creature Contest: http://bit.ly/l1EbS5 | Patch 1.3.X Undocumented Changes: http://bit.ly/ejywRQ | We want your broken maps! http://bit.ly/aU9AgC | Join #sc2replayed for SC2Replayed |
| 18:03.40 | JademusSreg | Then you'll want a more specific action for populating the playergroup. |
| 18:03.58 | Thels | Well, I added a Game Attribute |
| 18:04.05 | Thels | so players can choose Zerg or Merc at the lobby |
| 18:04.30 | Thels | And I just check the attribute in Map Initialization |
| 18:04.43 | JademusSreg | An action that will necessarily need to iterate across the active playergroup checking values to find valid players for faction changing. |
| 18:05.07 | JademusSreg | Or rather, a "Function" in GUI parlance. |
| 18:05.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-180-50.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 18:09.30 | Thels | hmm |
| 18:09.41 | Thels | I just thought of a way to do it differently and easier |
| 18:10.54 | A1win | ugff |
| 18:11.10 | A1win | this balance adjusting is getting boring xO |
| 18:11.50 | JademusSreg | Balance adjusting? |
| 18:12.22 | A1win | testing alone and changing things based on that |
| 18:13.37 | Eldrazor | can someone explain me how the hell beams work? |
| 18:14.20 | Batomys | Frustratingly. |
| 18:14.47 | A1win | I suppose I'll do something else for a while |
| 18:15.21 | JademusSreg | Use mah Dahmage Trahcker. |
| 18:15.41 | Eldrazor | eh i got beams to work |
| 18:15.46 | A1win | damage is a very small part of the balance in this map |
| 18:16.06 | Irikuan | Then your map is badly designed :p |
| 18:16.13 | Batomys | Oh my, thems fighting words |
| 18:16.21 | A1win | o_. |
| 18:16.24 | Irikuan | Fewer variables that affect 'balance' - the better designed, and easier to balance, your map will be :p |
| 18:16.27 | A1win | that was a quick conclusion |
| 18:16.40 | Batomys | That was very Yoda-ish |
| 18:16.55 | Irikuan | Like it or not, tis the truth |
| 18:17.10 | Irikuan | Blizzard only change build time or rarely the cost of something when balancing. |
| 18:17.25 | A1win | that's because they already have a good balance <.< |
| 18:17.37 | Irikuan | That's because their game has been designed with balance in mind. |
| 18:18.45 | Irikuan | Damage is the easiest controlling factor. You just have to factor in attack speed, number of attacks, hitpoints of targets, armour of targets, armour reduction etc |
| 18:19.07 | Irikuan | Put all the factors in place, then just edit the 'damage' value, and your map will be on its way to being balanced. |
| 18:19.31 | A1win | I'll rephrase that: *combat* is only a small part of gameplay of this map, which is why a damage meter wouldn't provide me with enough information to properly adjust balance |
| 18:19.57 | Irikuan | Let me assume your map is some kind of survivor scenario involving mining and building defence? |
| 18:20.28 | Irikuan | Average amount mined per minute / number of things your player has to spend on other than defence = amount of resources available per minute for defence |
| 18:20.47 | Irikuan | scale the hitpoints of incoming creatures to the number of minutes / resources mined (and invested into defence) accordingly. |
| 18:21.01 | A1win | if only it was that simple ;p |
| 18:21.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa_ (~Mexa@c-83-233-58-176.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 18:21.10 | Irikuan | It really is, and if it isn't you're making it complicated. |
| 18:21.48 | A1win | mining is not the only way of gaining resources, there also are vespene geysers that provide gas over time |
| 18:21.57 | Irikuan | still a resource over time variable |
| 18:22.08 | Irikuan | convert all the factoring variables into the amount of DPS they provide |
| 18:22.26 | Irikuan | and scale the time it takes to acquire that level of 'resource income' to give you the strength of enemy mobs |
| 18:22.27 | A1win | turrets use gas to attack, and if you use other things like goliaths or vulture spider mines to kill the enemies, the turrets consume less gas, leaving you with more to spend on other things |
| 18:22.55 | Irikuan | okay, so turret uses gas to attack... how much damage does a turret do and how much hp does an enemy mob have? |
| 18:22.59 | A1win | turrets do splash damage, so the positioning of enemies and how many enemies are attacking a turret at a time also affect how much gas they need to kill the attacking enemies |
| 18:23.49 | Irikuan | then I'm left to assume your enemies are spawned randomly and attack a random player controlled 'point' or 'unit' |
| 18:24.03 | A1win | they are |
| 18:24.06 | Irikuan | leaving you with a random element which will be near enough impossible to balance. |
| 18:24.24 | A1win | not at all, that's what testing is for |
| 18:24.27 | Irikuan | think about the word 'balance'. think about an equation. make the eureka moment and voilá |
| 18:25.01 | A1win | there's no need for complicated formulas to balance a game, especially when the gameplay is not symmetrical |
| 18:25.24 | Irikuan | I disagree. To balance the game you are tweaking values, what are these values? |
| 18:25.26 | Irikuan | Numbers. |
| 18:25.28 | A1win | I mean, it doesn't matter if the game is sometimes a bit harder and sometimes a bit easier |
| 18:25.41 | Irikuan | Yeah it does, I'd never play a game if I can just 'get unlucky' on round one and fail hard. |
| 18:25.47 | Irikuan | When I know I kick ass at the game 60% of the time. |
| 18:25.53 | A1win | the numbers have limits |
| 18:25.57 | Eldrazor | that's always how it works |
| 18:26.29 | Eldrazor | "oh woops you didn't scout the place where the enemy built his spire, now you die to sudden mutalisks" |
| 18:26.38 | Eldrazor | it happens |
| 18:26.42 | Irikuan | Yeah but A1win's map doesn't seem to require scouting. |
| 18:26.52 | Eldrazor | no but the same kind of randomness exists |
| 18:27.09 | A1win | it requires a whole lot of paying attention on what's happening |
| 18:27.23 | Eldrazor | like "oh I spawned at at the bottom left now my addons get in the way at my barracks at the ramp |
| 18:27.24 | Eldrazor | " |
| 18:27.33 | Irikuan | Besides, your spire>mutalisk analogy is wrong, since I can scout everything my opponent is NOT doing and make an educated guess as to his mutalisk count at x minutes in game. |
| 18:27.50 | Eldrazor | he could've built it in some hidden place |
| 18:28.00 | Eldrazor | and has an overseer |
| 18:28.09 | Irikuan | lol ^_^ |
| 18:28.19 | Eldrazor | so there's always some manner of luck |
| 18:28.21 | Irikuan | That isn't balance, that's player skill. |
| 18:28.25 | Eldrazor | not necessarily |
| 18:28.30 | Irikuan | Yes necessarily. |
| 18:28.35 | Eldrazor | you could've stumbled upon the spire when you went to drop |
| 18:28.43 | A1win | player skill directly affects game balance in a co-op game |
| 18:28.46 | Eldrazor | just cuz you decided to take the upper route instead of the lower route |
| 18:29.01 | Eldrazor | theoretically it's not luck |
| 18:29.03 | Eldrazor | but practically it is |
| 18:29.21 | Irikuan | You're speaking about balancing from a perspective of the Starcraft 2 game which is irrelevant to the master-league/diamond level where it is balanced |
| 18:29.24 | Eldrazor | just like theoretically it's not luck what number will come up when you roll a die |
| 18:29.31 | Eldrazor | but practically it is |
| 18:29.36 | Eldrazor | even in master/diamond |
| 18:29.38 | Eldrazor | it happens |
| 18:29.47 | Eldrazor | i.e. lost temple |
| 18:29.49 | Eldrazor | TvZ |
| 18:29.58 | Eldrazor | cross-map spawns |
| 18:30.13 | Eldrazor | zerg decides to build spire with overlord creep at the other side of his side of the map |
| 18:30.28 | Eldrazor | terran can take either the top route to the zerg's expo to drop |
| 18:30.31 | Eldrazor | or well |
| 18:30.39 | Eldrazor | terran go 2 paths to drop |
| 18:30.47 | Eldrazor | if he sticks to the edges of the map |
| 18:30.54 | Eldrazor | 50% chance he stumbles upon the hidden spire |
| 18:31.06 | Eldrazor | there's no skill involved in that |
| 18:33.52 | A1win | balancing this map is about making it not too easy and not oo hard, there's a wide range of "difficult enough" between those two, it's not exact science |
| 18:34.01 | Thels | hmm |
| 18:34.12 | Thels | what's the difference between melee and campaign mode for AI? |
| 18:39.16 | Eldrazor | damnit |
| 18:39.19 | Eldrazor | one ability just... vanished |
| 18:39.23 | Eldrazor | from UI card |
| 18:39.56 | A1win | Irikuan, SC2 probably has even more of these "variables" you speak of that affect balance than my map does: every value of every different unti type (I have very few unit types atm), map layout, cliffs, base locations, resource harvest speed, amount of resources in one field, how different untis behave against each other etc. etc. |
| 18:41.19 | A1win | the difference is that they are already adjusted properly so that there aren't many changes required to do anymore, and blizzard has had experience in balancing this kind of gameplay ever since SC1 |
| 18:41.58 | A1win | they can't calculate the balance for the game just by using some math formulas either |
| 18:44.43 | JademusSreg | That's not strictly true. |
| 18:45.31 | A1win | practically it is |
| 18:45.39 | JademusSreg | It's more accurate to say that formula modeling cannot, by itself, be entirely responsible for balancing highly complex gameplay. |
| 18:46.02 | A1win | I did say "_just_ by" |
| 18:47.10 | JademusSreg | And there is a related issue of model accuracy relative to its usefulness, where a perfectly accurate model would be indestinguishable from the system it is intended to model, and would thus be perfectly useless. |
| 18:47.23 | A1win | of course they can play a big part in balancing a game that has combat in it, I just don't see the need for it in my map where I can easily see that now they're doing too much damage, and lower it |
| 18:47.59 | JademusSreg | So regardless of the sort of modeling one uses for balancing, what matters is what parameters are being modeled. |
| 18:48.16 | Thels | hmm |
| 18:48.18 | A1win | I haven't changed enemy and turret damages in a long time, I've just been adjusting the number of enemies and times between the attack waves |
| 18:48.25 | Thels | so many AI options |
| 18:48.34 | Thels | what's the easiest way to just start a regular AI |
| 18:49.42 | A1win | the number of enemies mostly changes how much gas is consumed by turrets, and slightly how often players need to go repair the turrets |
| 18:50.42 | A1win | damage during a single combat just defines how fast a turret dies, and that's been just fine for some time now |
| 18:51.41 | A1win | uff why am I talking about this, I guess I see red when someone says my map is badly designed |
| 18:53.22 | Batomys | Understandable |
| 18:54.17 | A1win | it's the most fun co-op game I know at the moment, and although my opinion is *slightly* biased, it can't be entirely inaccurate D: |
| 18:55.45 | Batomys | Do you have a project page set up? Link me |
| 18:56.01 | Batomys | be back in a few |
| 18:56.26 | A1win | http://a1win.blogspot.com/ |
| 18:57.14 | A1win | I don't like this reverse chronological order how blogs do it, feels badly organized... should do something else |
| 18:58.04 | A1win | requires people to go dig through the archives if they want to read things in proper order |
| 18:58.30 | A1win | I guess the point of blogs is that people read the posts as soon as they're posted |
| 18:59.03 | A1win | and that people who "join" later don't necessarily even want to read through everything |
| 18:59.26 | A1win | hmm I should probably have some kind of an "about" page as well, or something |
| 19:14.29 | Eldrazor | reverse chronological order? |
| 19:14.33 | Eldrazor | you're supposed to start with the newest... |
| 19:15.11 | Eldrazor | can anyone name some reasons why an icon would not appear in the command card? |
| 19:15.21 | Irikuan | Sorry went to go help flatmates with cooking |
| 19:15.25 | Eldrazor | ability is there |
| 19:15.31 | Eldrazor | ability has Execute command |
| 19:15.40 | Eldrazor | in command card the button is selected and command selected and ability selected and stuff |
| 19:16.01 | Eldrazor | and it's for the ability in _all_ units |
| 19:16.03 | Irikuan | Essentially: Balance can be boiled down into any formulaic expression. But, yes, depending on game complexity this might require manual user-testing and tweaking on top |
| 19:19.33 | Eldrazor | irikuan that is not true |
| 19:19.48 | Eldrazor | utility can't be put into a formula |
| 19:22.03 | A1win | Eldrazor, what do you mean supposed to start with the newest? how would it make any sense to read the articles in reverse order to that which they're written in? D: |
| 19:22.12 | JademusSreg | A useful formulaic model will be able to make useful predictions and prescriptions about the state of the system. The challenge with formulaic modeling is in identifying the significant variables without overburdening the model such that it becomes useless. The more, let's say, verbose the model, the more accurately it describes the system it is intended to model, the more complicated it |
| 19:22.12 | JademusSreg | becomes. |
| 19:22.13 | Eldrazor | it's a blog |
| 19:22.19 | Eldrazor | every blog is chronological |
| 19:22.23 | Eldrazor | from newest to oldest |
| 19:22.28 | Eldrazor | makes it easier to follow |
| 19:22.29 | A1win | that's reverse chronological |
| 19:22.32 | Eldrazor | no |
| 19:22.41 | A1win | yes :P |
| 19:22.43 | Eldrazor | no |
| 19:22.58 | Eldrazor | Chronology (from Latin chronologia, from Ancient Greek χρόνος, chronos, "time"; and -λογία, -logia) is the science of arranging events in their order of occurrence in time, such as the use of a timeline or sequence of events. It is also "the determination of the actual temporal sequence of past events".[2] |
| 19:23.09 | Eldrazor | arranging events in order of occurence in time |
| 19:23.11 | Eldrazor | doesn't say which way |
| 19:23.19 | A1win | yes... and it's reverse because it goes from newest to oldest |
| 19:23.23 | Eldrazor | ohwell |
| 19:23.24 | Eldrazor | w/e |
| 19:23.25 | Eldrazor | reverse |
| 19:23.26 | A1win | :P |
| 19:23.26 | Eldrazor | then |
| 19:23.28 | Eldrazor | it makes sense |
| 19:23.33 | A1win | I know it's supposed to be like that, but that's what it's called |
| 19:23.38 | Eldrazor | i do not care |
| 19:23.40 | A1win | and it doesn't make any sense D: |
| 19:23.43 | Eldrazor | it does |
| 19:23.53 | Eldrazor | would you want youtube videos to appear from oldest to newest? |
| 19:23.58 | Eldrazor | if you're subscribed to someone? |
| 19:24.24 | A1win | I already said it makes sense if people follow it actively |
| 19:24.57 | Eldrazor | argh |
| 19:24.59 | Eldrazor | wtf is hiding my icon |
| 19:25.02 | A1win | because then they are not reading it in reverse order |
| 19:25.30 | Batomys | is there something above it in the command card, Eld? |
| 19:25.35 | Eldrazor | no |
| 19:25.37 | Eldrazor | it's completely |
| 19:25.38 | JademusSreg | Identifying and finding an expression for only those variables significant to the behavior of the model is challenging. Do you model all possible movement speed variations as noise or is it so significant a variable that it needs to be expressed with each agent being modeled? |
| 19:25.38 | Eldrazor | just that ability |
| 19:25.51 | Eldrazor | it's the ability itself |
| 19:25.58 | Eldrazor | but i've never had an ability hide an icon :S |
| 19:26.11 | Eldrazor | even if you assign an empty ability to an icon on the command card |
| 19:26.11 | Eldrazor | it works |
| 19:26.41 | A1win | empty ability? |
| 19:26.52 | Eldrazor | as in |
| 19:26.56 | Eldrazor | an ability that does absolutely nothing |
| 19:27.01 | Eldrazor | even then it'll show up on the command card |
| 19:27.03 | Eldrazor | if you give it a command |
| 19:27.07 | A1win | mm |
| 19:27.09 | Eldrazor | and put a button there |
| 19:27.34 | A1win | I had a problem with a custom attack ability |
| 19:27.37 | Eldrazor | nowhere in triggers either |
| 19:27.40 | Eldrazor | it's odd |
| 19:27.46 | Eldrazor | i can't remember even touching the ability |
| 19:27.51 | Eldrazor | since like a couple of versions ago |
| 19:27.54 | Eldrazor | but now... vanished |
| 19:28.00 | Batomys | Gremlins did it |
| 19:28.17 | A1win | if I had two different attack abilities on units that were able to morph to each other (even if they didn't actually have the morph abilities), the button for the other attack ability never showed up |
| 19:28.49 | Eldrazor | well |
| 19:28.53 | Eldrazor | my ability did show up |
| 19:28.56 | Eldrazor | until last time i tested |
| 19:29.07 | Eldrazor | i was just messing around with some unrelated and unconnected ability :/ |
| 19:29.09 | A1win | what type is it? |
| 19:29.16 | Eldrazor | Morph |
| 19:29.51 | A1win | maybe it's got something to do with the unit it'd morph into? |
| 19:30.19 | A1win | like for some reason it decides that it's not possible to do this moprh because of some random reason |
| 19:30.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Bibendus (~Bibendus@ip-80-249-36-63.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 19:30.45 | Eldrazor | k |
| 19:30.48 | Eldrazor | changed it to random |
| 19:30.49 | Eldrazor | i mean |
| 19:30.50 | Eldrazor | zergling |
| 19:30.52 | Eldrazor | let's see |
| 19:32.04 | Eldrazor | that looks to be it |
| 19:32.43 | Eldrazor | how odd |
| 19:33.50 | Eldrazor | ok this is weird |
| 19:34.00 | Eldrazor | the human |
| 19:34.02 | Eldrazor | can morph into alien |
| 19:34.05 | Eldrazor | but then it can't morph back |
| 19:34.10 | Eldrazor | but if i spawn the alien on map init |
| 19:34.13 | Eldrazor | it can morph into human |
| 19:34.22 | Eldrazor | oh nvm |
| 19:34.26 | Eldrazor | it can't |
| 19:35.00 | Eldrazor | it's really bugging out... |
| 19:35.14 | Eldrazor | other morph abilities also not working anymore |
| 19:35.31 | A1win | no behaviors that disable morph abilities? ;p |
| 19:35.46 | Eldrazor | some morph abilities do work |
| 19:35.48 | Eldrazor | but like |
| 19:35.51 | Eldrazor | if human morphs into alien |
| 19:35.54 | Eldrazor | alien can't morph at all |
| 19:35.58 | Eldrazor | if alien is spawned on map init |
| 19:35.59 | Eldrazor | it can morph |
| 19:36.11 | Eldrazor | what is going on :S |
| 19:36.25 | A1win | something in the morph ability leaves some state that disables morphing then? |
| 19:36.34 | Eldrazor | not that i know |
| 19:36.41 | Eldrazor | they aren't copied from another morph ability |
| 19:37.15 | Eldrazor | i'll just restart my computer in like half an hour |
| 19:37.17 | Eldrazor | and c what happens |
| 19:37.22 | Eldrazor | thanks for the help tho |
| 19:50.41 | AlphA_VsT | geez |
| 19:51.16 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 19:51.25 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 19:51.30 | AlphA_VsT | does the alien have the morph ability also? :P |
| 19:52.25 | AlphA_VsT | JademusSreg, make me a list of names so i can use it in my map... |
| 19:52.27 | AlphA_VsT | lololol |
| 19:56.08 | JademusSreg | Poondoggle Koontslap |
| 19:56.18 | JademusSreg | There's one. |
| 19:56.37 | JademusSreg | Zoolord Poopsmell |
| 19:56.48 | AlphA_VsT | i need an array but i dont want to do it by hand :( |
| 19:57.20 | JademusSreg | Topher Grace |
| 19:57.27 | JademusSreg | Wait, I think that one is a real person. |
| 19:57.45 | JademusSreg | Benedict Cumberbatch |
| 19:57.55 | JademusSreg | That name is just too silly to be real. |
| 19:58.14 | JademusSreg | Oh, for what are these names? |
| 19:58.54 | *** join/#sc2mapster tampa1adam (tampa1adam@pool-108-9-67-81.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:00.52 | Thels | Is there a way to say "Run this trigger for that player"? |
| 20:01.21 | AlphA_VsT | make a custom function |
| 20:01.56 | AlphA_VsT | set a param for a intger and label it player... |
| 20:02.01 | A1win | use triggers only for catching events, everything else as custom actions/functions |
| 20:02.11 | AlphA_VsT | ^ |
| 20:02.16 | Thels | custom function? |
| 20:02.19 | Thels | ok, will check that out |
| 20:02.34 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 20:02.54 | A1win | functions return a value, actions don't (otherwise they're the same) |
| 20:03.08 | AlphA_VsT | not true |
| 20:03.16 | AlphA_VsT | functions do no need to return a value |
| 20:03.41 | A1win | in which case they should be defined as actions in the GUI |
| 20:03.48 | A1win | in script they're all just functions |
| 20:03.59 | AlphA_VsT | yes... |
| 20:04.06 | AlphA_VsT | thats why i just call them functions :D |
| 20:04.25 | Thels | ok |
| 20:04.35 | Thels | so how do I start a function from a trigger? |
| 20:04.36 | A1win | but it's confusing for a GUI user ;p |
| 20:04.43 | A1win | Thels, just like any other action |
| 20:04.46 | AlphA_VsT | though... a action cant be used in a variable and a fucntion cant be used as a action in gui |
| 20:05.06 | AlphA_VsT | it should just be one fucking thing |
| 20:05.12 | A1win | ;p |
| 20:05.22 | A1win | then you'd have them all listed in same list |
| 20:05.28 | AlphA_VsT | so... |
| 20:05.29 | A1win | would be more confusing |
| 20:05.39 | AlphA_VsT | i guess for the general user |
| 20:05.57 | A1win | for everyone |
| 20:06.08 | A1win | you'd have to remember which return what types |
| 20:06.58 | AlphA_VsT | thats what names are for :D |
| 20:08.14 | tampa1adam | hey guys how do I rotate an actor 180 deg |
| 20:08.27 | tampa1adam | like I imported a wow model and it's backwards |
| 20:08.32 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 20:08.39 | tampa1adam | hehehe |
| 20:08.43 | Mexa_ | Backwards? |
| 20:08.51 | AlphA_VsT | go back to the 3dmax ... |
| 20:09.34 | tampa1adam | I need an explicit rotation SOp actor, I just dont know what to put in for the vector to make it turn 180 deg |
| 20:11.30 | AlphA_VsT | it shouldnt be backwards :P |
| 20:11.52 | AlphA_VsT | and it would be easy to jsut rotate it in 3dmax... |
| 20:12.19 | tampa1adam | well first I'll have to download 3dsmax |
| 20:12.38 | AlphA_VsT | then how did you get the wow model? |
| 20:12.52 | tampa1adam | http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/art-assets/8347-wow-model-pack-requests/#posts |
| 20:13.12 | AlphA_VsT | are you sure its just the way its facing? |
| 20:13.51 | tampa1adam | yeah i tell it to move, and it turns around and moves to that spot with its back turned |
| 20:14.04 | tampa1adam | walks backwards to it lmao |
| 20:15.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster Eldrazor (5353a42b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.83.164.43) |
| 20:15.54 | Eldrazor | that's it |
| 20:16.01 | Eldrazor | i'm creating a new morph(human) |
| 20:18.41 | AlphA_VsT | wow |
| 20:18.49 | AlphA_VsT | someone who made those models failed hard :D |
| 20:19.09 | Eldrazor | which 1s? |
| 20:19.31 | tampa1adam | well, could I just rotate the model in 3d max, ill go get it if I can |
| 20:19.43 | tampa1adam | liek I can import those m3 files and everything will be dandy? |
| 20:20.16 | tampa1adam | OMG BTJUNKIE IS DOWN WTF |
| 20:20.26 | Eldrazor | *creates exact copy of the ability and puts it on 1 of the alien types* |
| 20:20.33 | Eldrazor | *everything works again, even the old one* |
| 20:21.13 | A1win | maybe it just needed refreshing the abilities on the unit or something? |
| 20:21.31 | Eldrazor | it's refreshed it on all alien types |
| 20:21.40 | Eldrazor | which is like... 3 |
| 20:21.44 | Eldrazor | when i added the new ability |
| 20:21.45 | Eldrazor | to 1 of them |
| 20:21.53 | Eldrazor | it's always as if the editor is going "Oh wups it's supposed to work" |
| 20:23.19 | Eldrazor | *removes new morph type* |
| 20:23.24 | Eldrazor | *back to old state of not working* |
| 20:23.28 | Eldrazor | tehfuck |
| 20:23.46 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 20:24.24 | Eldrazor | just... wtf |
| 20:25.48 | AlphA_VsT | HAHAHAHA |
| 20:25.50 | AlphA_VsT | it hates you |
| 20:29.31 | *** join/#sc2mapster Vailreth|2 (~kvirc@75.108.222.166) |
| 20:34.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mephs (~Mephs@c-67-172-135-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Sixen (~Sixen@173-29-13-13.client.mchsi.com) |
| 20:35.40 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+o Sixen] by ChanServ |
| 20:44.50 | Thels | Can you do a "Pick each player in Group" within a "Pick each player in Group" or will that go wrong? |
| 20:45.10 | A1win | it will break, use For Each Player instead |
| 20:45.30 | A1win | it's otherwise exactly same but you can specify the variable to use (make a new local variable for it) |
| 20:45.38 | A1win | and use different variable for both loops |
| 20:46.09 | Thels | ok |
| 20:46.25 | Thels | I can still do "Pick each player" as the main loop, and then For Each Player as the subloop, right? |
| 20:46.30 | Thels | and thanks :) |
| 20:46.42 | A1win | I'd advice not to use pick each player at all, it's good practice to use the For Each |
| 20:47.07 | A1win | there's no harm in using For Each, and it can be nested |
| 20:48.06 | Thels | ok |
| 20:48.07 | Thels | hmm |
| 20:49.34 | AlphA_VsT | yeah pick each is icky |
| 20:49.49 | tampa1adam | HAH got it :) |
| 20:57.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Fredypimp (cfa27401@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.162.116.1) |
| 20:58.42 | Fredypimp | Hi everyone |
| 21:07.14 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@78.97.99.188) |
| 21:15.45 | AlphA_VsT | yup |
| 21:17.20 | Eldrazor | and yea |
| 21:17.21 | Eldrazor | it really hates me |
| 21:17.23 | Eldrazor | i just copied |
| 21:17.26 | Eldrazor | the exact same ability |
| 21:17.31 | Eldrazor | using the Duplicate function |
| 21:17.37 | Eldrazor | and now the duplicated thingy is working |
| 21:17.39 | Eldrazor | but if i don't duplicate |
| 21:17.41 | Eldrazor | it doesn't work |
| 21:21.29 | Fredypimp | Guys, how can I reduce the size of my fraps video >< |
| 21:24.35 | A1win | VirtualDub is a nice little video editing software |
| 21:24.56 | Fredypimp | is t free? |
| 21:24.59 | Fredypimp | it* |
| 21:24.59 | A1win | I think so |
| 21:26.01 | Fredypimp | damn.. the website is blocked by my school proxy.. |
| 21:26.06 | A1win | you'll also need some codec to compress with, there are some default ones you already have but I don't think any of them are very good |
| 21:30.57 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 21:31.04 | AlphA_VsT | use a proxy? |
| 21:31.22 | AlphA_VsT | go to google translate and translate to english... |
| 21:31.35 | AlphA_VsT | should bypass teh schools firewall |
| 21:33.45 | Fredypimp | got it ^^ |
| 21:35.14 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 21:35.22 | AlphA_VsT | stupid firewalls |
| 21:37.47 | Fredypimp | yea :P |
| 21:38.16 | AlphA_VsT | 90% of the time that works... |
| 21:41.02 | Fredypimp | Yea |
| 21:41.13 | Fredypimp | Well, know I must learn that.. |
| 21:41.13 | Fredypimp | hmm |
| 21:42.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster SBeier (54ee2207@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.238.34.7) |
| 21:43.14 | Fredypimp | Oh wll, screw that, my class is about to end |
| 21:43.42 | A1win | it takes quite a long time to compress a video anyway |
| 21:44.43 | Mephs | ~purl |
| 21:44.43 | purl | well, purl is the only good thing about sc2mapster |
| 21:45.24 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 21:45.26 | AlphA_VsT | yeah |
| 21:46.32 | Mephs | challenge: wish to make god tier map. problem: need custom modeller |
| 21:46.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster SBeier_ (~chatzilla@ip-34-7.bnaa.dk) |
| 21:50.47 | AlphA_VsT | lol mephs? |
| 21:50.58 | Mephs | lol wat |
| 21:54.16 | AlphA_VsT | make map use temp models :P |
| 21:55.49 | Mephs | done. wheres my custom models now? |
| 21:57.06 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 21:57.19 | AlphA_VsT | always time to learn something new :D |
| 21:59.10 | Mephs | yeano |
| 22:00.27 | AlphA_VsT | why not? |
| 22:01.37 | AlphA_VsT | you dont want to learn new things? |
| 22:01.54 | Mephs | modelling is not something im capable of |
| 22:02.01 | AlphA_VsT | why? |
| 22:02.11 | Mephs | i dont get it |
| 22:02.18 | AlphA_VsT | thats why you learn... |
| 22:02.36 | Mephs | i cant do it at a level of quality id be happy with |
| 22:03.02 | AlphA_VsT | well with that attitude of course not |
| 22:03.09 | AlphA_VsT | way to fail even before you try |
| 22:03.39 | Mephs | im a developer not an artist |
| 22:04.17 | AlphA_VsT | well im an artist not a developer so there you go :P |
| 22:04.45 | Mephs | so clearly you should learn how to write code |
| 22:05.27 | AlphA_VsT | I have... becasue i dont want to limit myself to 1 thing |
| 22:05.46 | Mephs | can you write a game engine? |
| 22:06.39 | AlphA_VsT | I could do it good enough to showcase my ideas, and if i had enough time i could do it my self |
| 22:07.13 | Mephs | the quality of either or comes into question then |
| 22:07.45 | AlphA_VsT | Your more likely to find help if you are willing to put in effort... |
| 22:08.17 | Mephs | I think I've plenty shown effort |
| 22:08.36 | Mephs | the next step though |
| 22:09.09 | AlphA_VsT | saying make me models cause i have cool ideas... compared to showing some concepts and rough ideas while asking for help... |
| 22:09.30 | Mephs | uh |
| 22:09.44 | Mephs | I've got all that |
| 22:10.24 | Mephs | its just that that got me a job offer at riot games |
| 22:11.39 | Dustin | You got a job offer from riot? |
| 22:11.44 | Dustin | Thats pretty slick |
| 22:11.51 | Mephs | like a year ago |
| 22:11.55 | AlphA_VsT | lol... |
| 22:16.40 | Mephs | can has modeller now thx' |
| 22:17.13 | AlphA_VsT | yeah and that will get you ignored :P |
| 22:17.24 | Mephs | shrug |
| 22:17.52 | Mephs | there isnt anyone in this chat that can really do that well anyway |
| 22:20.16 | AlphA_VsT | how do you know? |
| 22:20.32 | Mephs | actually |
| 22:20.34 | AlphA_VsT | you havent even said a single basic thing you need other than modeller |
| 22:20.37 | Mephs | xaragoth can |
| 22:20.41 | Mephs | but |
| 22:20.51 | Mephs | he's probably the only one |
| 22:21.08 | Mephs | yeah, because thats all that i need |
| 22:21.21 | Mephs | forgot to add "high quality" mb |
| 22:23.22 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 22:27.15 | AlphA_VsT | Try not to put people down, when you have no idea who can do what... just saying |
| 22:27.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kenoli (~kenoli47@cpe-174-097-137-087.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:28.18 | Thels | hmm |
| 22:28.20 | Mephs | well after all that talk about proving what you can bring to the table i'd expect a better response than "no u" |
| 22:28.29 | Thels | when I want to make an event on minerals changing |
| 22:28.32 | Thels | which player do I pick |
| 22:28.37 | Mephs | maybe a sample or something' |
| 22:28.38 | Thels | if I want it to work for all players? |
| 22:29.23 | Kenoli | Sounds like something mildly interesting might have possibly happened |
| 22:31.06 | AlphA_VsT | thels covert the player to a preset |
| 22:31.11 | AlphA_VsT | and on preset do any player |
| 22:31.26 | Mephs | logic errors courtesy of inferior ppl, nothing new |
| 22:31.43 | Thels | Preset is empty? |
| 22:31.55 | AlphA_VsT | convert to preset... |
| 22:32.03 | Thels | how what where? |
| 22:32.22 | AlphA_VsT | click player go to function |
| 22:32.30 | AlphA_VsT | select convert to preset |
| 22:32.46 | Thels | in the event? |
| 22:32.50 | AlphA_VsT | yes |
| 22:33.00 | Thels | I have Convert Preset to Integer |
| 22:33.02 | AlphA_VsT | Player Property Changed |
| 22:33.03 | AlphA_VsT | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.03 | AlphA_VsT | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.03 | AlphA_VsT | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.04 | Thels | but not Convert to Preset |
| 22:33.08 | Thels | ah |
| 22:33.34 | Thels | Wait |
| 22:33.38 | Thels | where do I set that value? |
| 22:34.02 | AlphA_VsT | under preset |
| 22:34.15 | Thels | oh yeah |
| 22:34.16 | Thels | I see |
| 22:34.17 | Thels | thanks! |
| 22:34.21 | AlphA_VsT | yup |
| 22:39.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-180-50.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 22:40.14 | Thels | hmm |
| 22:40.52 | Thels | how hard is it to order a computer player to stop producing/researching anything but economy, and then a few minutes later make him start producing/researching military again |
| 22:40.58 | Thels | will that screw up the AI? |
| 22:42.05 | AlphA_VsT | no |
| 22:43.06 | Thels | ok |
| 22:43.12 | Thels | gotta figure that out next then |
| 22:46.47 | AlphA_VsT | :D |
| 22:46.52 | AlphA_VsT | i dont do ai |
| 22:47.06 | Thels | I don't need anything fancy |
| 22:47.11 | Thels | but my map is about recruiting players |
| 22:47.32 | Thels | so when there's a player to recruit, the AI should stop worrying about pumping zerglings and collect minerals ASAP to hire the player |
| 22:48.42 | Thels | then again |
| 22:48.52 | Thels | I might not have to mess with AI anyhow |
| 22:49.01 | Thels | I could just temporarily turn it into custom resource |
| 22:49.11 | Thels | and when there are no players to recruit, convert it back |
| 22:49.13 | Thels | that'll work |
| 22:54.15 | Dustin | Mephs |
| 22:54.22 | Dustin | Did you start on that turn based game? |
| 22:55.50 | Mephs | turn based game wont work on bnet |
| 22:56.33 | AlphA_VsT | why not? |
| 22:56.40 | AlphA_VsT | its turn based? |
| 22:56.51 | Mephs | i did devise a way to turn it into a tactical tug game |
| 22:57.12 | Mephs | turn based game vs average attention span of bnet players |
| 22:58.23 | AlphA_VsT | lol |
| 23:34.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster avogatro (~avogatro@nat-wh-hadi.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 23:55.13 | Thels | is it possible to resize images in a Dialog Frame? |
| 23:57.54 | SBeier | use void DialogControlSetSize(int control, playergroup players, int width, int height) |
| 23:58.22 | Thels | I can set the size of a dialog item just fine |
| 23:58.31 | Thels | but the problem is that I only see the top left part of the image |
| 23:59.18 | SBeier | ah.. then put the image inside its own dialog, and give that dialog a transparent background.. size the dialog to be half the size of the image.. or whatever you need |