| 00:00.20 | A1win | set the player to "Picked Player" in the modify action |
| 00:01.08 | Shadowwolf | Okay now to test |
| 00:02.16 | Shadowwolf | Woot thanks |
| 00:02.32 | Shadowwolf | Im taking a lot of time remaking a .pud map |
| 00:02.35 | Shadowwolf | LAWL |
| 00:03.09 | Shadowwolf | who else is going to re-make these great maps from warcraft 2 |
| 00:03.14 | Shadowwolf | :D |
| 00:03.24 | A1win | JademusSreg, please tell me there's a way to simplify this: http://a1win.pp.fi/temp/ccbuildability.jpg :E |
| 00:04.37 | A1win | pain to create 3 events + other hazzle for every structure I add |
| 00:04.44 | Frostwind | is so bored |
| 00:06.17 | JademusSreg | Why not make the ability and stage set to any; your cases ought to be able to handle it anyway. But short of that, not really much you can do. |
| 00:07.13 | A1win | the GUI doesn't let me choose "any", would custom script? |
| 00:08.12 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 00:08.27 | JademusSreg | No guarantee it would. |
| 00:08.42 | JademusSreg | In galaxy, "any" is just a null vlaue. |
| 00:08.46 | JademusSreg | *value |
| 00:08.57 | Kueken | sometimes it is also -1 |
| 00:09.00 | Kueken | I think |
| 00:09.02 | JademusSreg | Yes. |
| 00:09.10 | JademusSreg | Depending on the object type. |
| 00:09.21 | Kueken | for abilitys it doesn't work afaik |
| 00:10.26 | Kueken | ability stages however should |
| 00:11.54 | JademusSreg | I think it merits a test. |
| 00:13.44 | Frostwind | so................. |
| 00:16.33 | Shadowwolf | 2 more then my map is completed LAWL, first i gotta change the Build time of a Probe |
| 00:18.24 | Shadowwolf | Is there an easy way to Change the build time of a probe? |
| 00:23.23 | JademusSreg | From the ability. |
| 00:28.42 | A1win | does setting a unit's scale use the unit's default scale as original scale or the scale it had before that? |
| 00:29.35 | A1win | my power cables are becoming too long for some reason... |
| 00:29.40 | Kueken | I think you can specify labels for that |
| 00:29.53 | Kueken | to make individual scale messages |
| 00:30.09 | A1win | mmh right, should use actor messages rather than the "set unit scale" function |
| 00:42.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Frostwind (~fhbjsdbkj@99-73-216-198.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:44.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster shadowwolf (4b7553ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.117.83.174) |
| 00:44.50 | shadowwolf | How do I alter a units Buildtime? |
| 00:46.04 | A1win | in the build ability |
| 00:46.46 | shadowwolf | ok, just wanted to make sure i was searching the right place |
| 00:46.49 | A1win | mmh maybe I'm just imagining this, the model variations might just be of a little different sizes... |
| 00:48.49 | Frostwind | yawns |
| 00:50.21 | A1win | yeah that was it I guess |
| 00:51.03 | A1win | damn, no cool animations on the cables when I remove them D: they just disappear |
| 00:51.42 | A1win | maybe I should add some effect on top of both buildings |
| 00:54.41 | shadowwolf | Chop Chop Forest now on NA servers, I just made it check it out, LOL not the greatest thing in the world but if you get a party togethe it can be really fun |
| 00:56.11 | A1win | errm... the power lines don't even have attachment points, is there any way to get an actor attached above them? |
| 01:00.09 | A1win | center attaches it to the center of the unit... can I move it up somehow? |
| 01:02.13 | Kueken | site operations? |
| 01:02.39 | A1win | haven't used them |
| 01:03.46 | A1win | damn the stimpack effect model only has birth animation |
| 01:09.49 | Kueken | and? |
| 01:10.19 | A1win | can I pause it or something? D: |
| 01:10.23 | Kueken | sure |
| 01:10.35 | Kueken | you can pause, slow down, set completion |
| 01:10.39 | Kueken | repeat |
| 01:10.49 | Kueken | whatever you want ;) |
| 01:16.18 | A1win | dunno how x\ |
| 01:22.32 | Vailreth | you know what time it is? |
| 01:23.33 | Vailreth | its time to take pills |
| 01:26.27 | A1win | what do I need to do to create an actor and pause it to 0.5 seconds of its birth animation D: |
| 01:28.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster Daara (62a8c8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.168.200.226) |
| 01:28.34 | Daara | been a long week -_- |
| 01:29.38 | Daara | So I'm not finding any way to get a stair model to work. |
| 01:29.43 | Daara | I assume it's not possible then? |
| 01:30.18 | Vailreth | i dont think the editor can handle stairs |
| 01:30.27 | Vailreth | i mean the engine |
| 01:30.28 | Daara | kind of stupid imo |
| 01:30.51 | Daara | I'm using these WoW wall models and I wish I could make them walkable |
| 01:30.51 | Vailreth | not really considering the engine is for try games |
| 01:31.09 | Vailreth | rts games |
| 01:31.15 | Vailreth | gah fuck my fingers |
| 01:31.21 | Daara | true |
| 01:31.37 | Daara | but they knew the custom map scene is just as big as the RTS scene |
| 01:31.50 | Daara | the custom maps keep the game alive |
| 01:31.54 | Vailreth | no |
| 01:32.05 | Vailreth | e sports keeps the game alive |
| 01:32.15 | Vailreth | at least in their minds |
| 01:32.15 | Daara | well esports help now a lot |
| 01:32.50 | Daara | honestly i haven't found a really fun custom map yet |
| 01:32.50 | Vailreth | the fact is they cant really see away to make them selves money via custom games so its a low low low priority |
| 01:33.04 | A1win | mmh I have Abil.Interact.SourceStart -> Glow Start (and stop respectively) but the unit doesn't start its glow when it's just constructed until it uses the interact again |
| 01:33.16 | Daara | the only one i enjoy from time to time is star battle |
| 01:33.40 | Vailreth | i am hoping people will enjoy my three campaigns |
| 01:33.48 | Vailreth | well micro campaigns |
| 01:34.07 | Daara | you should put in that insane AI haha |
| 01:34.14 | Daara | the one that loses like no units ever |
| 01:34.38 | Vailreth | hm |
| 01:34.41 | Vailreth | i might |
| 01:34.45 | Daara | have you seen that video? |
| 01:34.51 | Vailreth | no |
| 01:34.51 | Daara | it's ridic |
| 01:34.56 | Vailreth | i havent had time |
| 01:35.46 | Vailreth | i need one more speical ability |
| 01:35.50 | Daara | the pro's couldn't beat them really |
| 01:37.20 | Vailreth | gack!... |
| 01:38.26 | Vailreth | i just realized with one upgrade i have and the swarm mastery power Mitosial Proliferation you could mass zerglings very very quickly |
| 01:38.47 | Frostwind | yawns |
| 01:38.53 | Frostwind | sorry for the boredom |
| 01:39.06 | Vailreth | linke from zero to 120 zerglings in 25 seconds or so |
| 01:40.06 | Vailreth | that power is definantly going to have to be ballanced soon |
| 01:40.20 | Daara | lol |
| 01:40.24 | Daara | that's a lot of lings |
| 01:41.02 | Vailreth | well this power + 3 structures = 60 larva over 10 seconds ( for the moment) |
| 01:41.08 | Daara | lol |
| 01:41.14 | Daara | sounds a little imba |
| 01:41.27 | Vailreth | i just plugged in arbitrary values to get the ability working |
| 01:41.31 | Daara | ah |
| 01:41.40 | Daara | 10 sounds pretty fair |
| 01:41.49 | Daara | maybe 15 |
| 01:42.19 | Frostwind | sooooo....... |
| 01:42.27 | Vailreth | but then who has the econ to support a sudden instant inflow of even say 5-10 larva per structure.... |
| 01:42.44 | Vailreth | maybe some one in late game |
| 01:42.53 | Vailreth | but up front its just wasted energy |
| 01:43.59 | Daara | you could use it really defensively |
| 01:44.04 | Vailreth | yes. |
| 01:44.07 | Daara | try teching but have your scouts |
| 01:44.16 | Daara | see them coming...bam 30 lings |
| 01:44.38 | Daara | i'm really kind of sad I can't have stairs on these models |
| 01:44.44 | Daara | and have the tops walkable |
| 01:44.47 | Vailreth | yeah or in the high tech cased 60 lings because obverse incubation doubles ling count |
| 01:44.52 | Daara | would be really cool to place archers on top of the walls |
| 01:45.19 | Vailreth | yeah |
| 01:45.36 | Vailreth | if made not stairs but maybe ramps? |
| 01:45.58 | Daara | well all of the walls are actually built by the player |
| 01:46.11 | Vailreth | might not look as epic but if the collision was right it may work |
| 01:46.33 | Frostwind | when playing animations with triggers what is identifier for? |
| 01:46.35 | Daara | i'd have not trouble if it were just doodads and terrain |
| 01:46.50 | Daara | no trouble* |
| 01:47.25 | Daara | do you mean the "play forever" "play once" things? |
| 01:47.54 | Frostwind | Identifier: Default |
| 01:48.01 | Frostwind | its a string |
| 01:49.00 | Daara | i just left mine at default |
| 01:49.06 | Daara | and the animations work fine |
| 01:49.35 | Daara | i'd assume that is to make it the default animation over anything else |
| 01:49.50 | Vailreth | now im abit lost. |
| 01:53.47 | Vailreth | i iwsh i know how to contact Day9 aka Sean Plott |
| 01:59.00 | Frostwind | so..... |
| 02:13.59 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 02:15.19 | *** join/#sc2mapster Daara (62a8c8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.168.200.226) |
| 02:17.12 | Daara | hmm |
| 02:17.34 | Daara | i wonder if just imported the spell animations if the particle trail comes with it |
| 02:35.48 | Shawn|Rawr | Boo. |
| 02:36.22 | Daara | Don't remind me of ghosts. |
| 02:36.38 | Daara | I was asleep the other night when my printer started printing something, TWICE. |
| 02:36.44 | Shawn|Rawr | *Nuclear Launch Detected* |
| 02:36.48 | Daara | My computer was off. |
| 02:36.59 | Daara | And I haven't used my printer in months. |
| 02:40.08 | Shawn|Rawr | *Scary Printer Noises* |
| 02:42.40 | Daara | i about crapped myself |
| 02:42.47 | Daara | i wasn't about to go unplug it |
| 02:42.51 | Daara | and then have it try again |
| 02:43.16 | Daara | cause that would obviously happen |
| 02:48.40 | *** part/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 02:52.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 02:58.04 | Frostwind | so..... |
| 03:03.54 | *** part/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 03:27.08 | Vailreth | hello |
| 03:28.46 | Frostwind | hi............ |
| 03:32.02 | Daara | frostwind don't you have an rpg to work on? |
| 03:32.16 | Frostwind | nope |
| 03:32.22 | Frostwind | no one on my team |
| 03:32.54 | Frostwind | :( |
| 03:35.55 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 03:36.26 | Vailreth | hah? |
| 03:36.52 | JademusSreg | Frostwind. Enough said. =D |
| 03:37.01 | Vailreth | i cant see frost |
| 03:37.08 | Vailreth | i have him perma ignored |
| 03:37.10 | JademusSreg | I know; thus, my response. |
| 03:37.18 | Vailreth | ah |
| 03:37.29 | Vailreth | hmm still need one more swarm mastery power |
| 03:37.39 | Vailreth | and i hope i live till tomorrow |
| 03:48.15 | Shawn|Rawr | I was thinking of an ability where you select one unit and it creates two more of that unit from that one |
| 03:48.34 | Shawn|Rawr | So you have 1 ultra.. then magically you have 3 |
| 03:48.46 | Shawn|Rawr | Or something like that |
| 03:49.53 | Vailreth | if you can give me a zergy name for it |
| 03:50.14 | Daara | something replication |
| 03:51.02 | Daara | what's it called when organisms reproduce by splitting in half? |
| 03:51.33 | Aelia | anyone here good with target sorts? |
| 03:52.13 | Daara | you should have it just create one extra and half them at half size and grow to full size over time |
| 03:52.31 | Daara | have them at half* |
| 03:52.37 | Vailreth | hmm |
| 03:53.49 | Daara | actually sounds like a way zerg would reproduce without larvae |
| 03:54.01 | Daara | i'm just ganna split into another one ^^ |
| 03:55.27 | JademusSreg | Since zerg can already regenerate, just kick it up a notch. Catalyze the explosive growth of a neoblast tumor in the target; the target will explode, the tumors of stem cells differentiate themselves into whole organisms. |
| 03:56.26 | JademusSreg | Kinda like how a planarian flatworm regenerates into whole organisms from its divided parts. |
| 03:56.52 | A1win | I'm trying to figure out how to decide which power generator provides power if they would produce too much of it |
| 03:58.38 | A1win | don't want to divide it into fractions either |
| 03:58.59 | A1win | easiest would just be to go through the array and take the first one there is =p |
| 03:59.36 | A1win | but it doesn't seem right |
| 04:00.41 | A1win | mmh maybe compare the amount of fuel left in each generator somehow... |
| 04:02.04 | A1win | but not sure how efficient it'd be to try listing all generators for all power users that are receiving too much power |
| 04:03.40 | *** join/#sc2mapster Vailreth (~kvirc@75.108.215.142) |
| 04:04.51 | Aelia | is there any way to have a two priority target sort? |
| 04:05.14 | A1win | mmh? |
| 04:05.27 | A1win | oh, nevermind |
| 04:05.31 | A1win | dunno about target sorts |
| 04:05.41 | A1win | sleep time -> |
| 04:09.52 | *** join/#sc2mapster timecat_ (~IceChat7@69.76.21.132) |
| 04:24.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster apwb (bebble@cip81.cip.chalmers.se) |
| 04:26.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster cintiq_ (~cintiq@182-239-176-29.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 05:02.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster Agouti|2 (~Agouti@60-240-3-202.tpgi.com.au) |
| 05:15.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa (~Mexa.EU@80.78.216.84) |
| 05:19.59 | Mexa | hrnmph |
| 05:20.56 | Mexa | http://www.humblebundle.com/ !! |
| 05:24.04 | JademusSreg | Cool. |
| 05:24.13 | JademusSreg | I've been looking forward ot that gamer. |
| 05:24.15 | JademusSreg | *game |
| 05:24.25 | Mexa | aye, me too |
| 05:30.22 | Vailreth | watching day9 play ameisa the dark decent \ |
| 05:31.34 | Vailreth | probably going to be sleeping with the lights on |
| 05:31.52 | Mexa | oh, that game =D |
| 05:32.37 | Mexa | I played that with my friend, we really embraced it like we were the character, so well, it became pretty scary |
| 05:35.01 | Mexa | lololol |
| 05:35.04 | Mexa | He screamed |
| 05:35.05 | Mexa | xD |
| 05:36.25 | Mexa | I can't believe 16k people is sitting and watching him play that game^^ |
| 05:37.19 | Shawn|Rawr | I'm watching it |
| 05:37.21 | Shawn|Rawr | ^.^ |
| 05:37.37 | Mexa | Yeah I just turned it on, right on time for his screaming:P |
| 05:37.45 | Shawn|Rawr | Haha! |
| 05:37.50 | Shawn|Rawr | I love dayj |
| 05:41.36 | Mexa | Man, now when I watch him playing, I don't think I will ever replay that game :P |
| 05:42.03 | Mexa | That he's a scaryboy doesn't make it better :> |
| 05:43.11 | Vailreth | i know i will never play this game |
| 05:43.26 | Mexa | :3 |
| 05:49.28 | *** join/#sc2mapster DevliN (6316dddd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.22.221.221) |
| 05:50.12 | Mexa | He's getting scary for everything, seriously :D |
| 05:52.29 | Vailreth | he scares easily |
| 05:52.49 | Vailreth | then again so do i |
| 05:56.33 | Mexa | lol |
| 05:56.36 | Mexa | he's owned now |
| 06:01.29 | Vailreth | now more than ever i wish i had telepresence and tk powers |
| 06:01.52 | Mexa | ;D |
| 06:02.07 | Vailreth | i would sooo go there and poke him |
| 06:05.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster Skiz_brok (~skizot@pool-96-252-169-117.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:10.49 | Mexa | :G he can't quit like that! |
| 06:11.11 | Shawn|Rawr | Gay. |
| 06:11.24 | Shawn|Rawr | I'm so making my roommate play that game when he gets home |
| 06:11.29 | Shawn|Rawr | OMG I am so doing it |
| 06:11.42 | Mexa | :) |
| 06:11.57 | Mexa | I've already finished it with my friend |
| 06:12.18 | Shawn|Rawr | Is it scary for more than one playthrough? |
| 06:12.52 | Mexa | Perhaps, that was one of the mentally challenged games I ever had played |
| 06:13.02 | Mexa | Tho, I don't usually play horror games |
| 06:13.16 | Mexa | I wouldn't want to do it alone, now |
| 06:13.46 | Mexa | The environments, and ambient audio and music qualities of that game just adds upp extremely much too D: |
| 06:14.12 | Shawn|Rawr | He has $200 headphones with built in 5.1 surround |
| 06:14.20 | Shawn|Rawr | Totally will shit his pants imo |
| 06:14.28 | Mexa | yeah |
| 06:14.47 | Shawn|Rawr | And I'll be sitting behind him the whole time laughing |
| 06:15.05 | Mexa | Well, even with the right gamma setting, lights turned off, and regular headphones or a decent stereo, it would be sufficient |
| 06:16.07 | Shawn|Rawr | I just hope his doesnt crash a bunch like day9's |
| 06:16.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster shintah (bebble@h-104-26.a155.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:17.00 | Mexa | :3 |
| 06:17.09 | Mexa | Did you play it yourself Shawn? |
| 06:17.41 | Mexa | I played with my friend in turns. It was almost as scary to watch as it was to play |
| 06:17.56 | Mexa | But yeah, I did laugh a few times in symphaty, when he got creeped out:P |
| 06:17.59 | Shawn|Rawr | I have not played it |
| 06:18.12 | Shawn|Rawr | But I don't feel like I'd get the same rush now that I've seen day9 go through it |
| 06:18.26 | Shawn|Rawr | ofc, i was fullscreen with my headphones on as he went through |
| 06:18.26 | Mexa | lol |
| 06:18.33 | Shawn|Rawr | his screams scared me the most i think |
| 06:18.55 | Mexa | Tbh, what he played there was pretty much what you could play in the demo |
| 06:19.02 | Mexa | So there's a long way to go :D |
| 06:19.11 | Shawn|Rawr | Is Penumbra as good as Amnesia? |
| 06:19.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@78.97.99.188) |
| 06:19.18 | Mexa | Haven't played it |
| 06:19.25 | Mexa | But it's by the same creators |
| 06:19.30 | Shawn|Rawr | I know. |
| 06:19.35 | Mexa | Btw |
| 06:19.47 | Mexa | 80% sale on Amnesia, on steam |
| 06:19.50 | Mexa | 3 euro |
| 06:19.55 | Mexa | :3 |
| 06:20.04 | Shawn|Rawr | Ya I see it |
| 06:21.41 | Shawn|Rawr | Apparently Penumbra has actual combat |
| 06:22.00 | Shawn|Rawr | Which i didn't see any of in Amnesia. I think it's better without the combat |
| 06:22.05 | Shawn|Rawr | That way you feel defenseless |
| 06:22.08 | Mexa | Exactly |
| 06:22.27 | Mexa | But Penumbra, from what I have seen of it, should be a pretty scary game too |
| 06:23.21 | Shawn|Rawr | It says the combat is very difficult so you feel like an ordinary person rather than a superman character, and you avoid combat at all costs |
| 06:23.45 | Shawn|Rawr | I still would say they could've left it out entirely |
| 06:24.17 | Mexa | Well, Penumbra was released a pretty long time ago |
| 06:24.27 | Mexa | See it that Amnesia is a successor. |
| 06:24.46 | Shawn|Rawr | I know. 07, 08, amnesia in '10 |
| 06:24.59 | Shawn|Rawr | Hopefully many more from this company |
| 06:25.11 | Shawn|Rawr | Horror games just aren't what they used to be |
| 06:25.23 | Shawn|Rawr | And this really seems to scare the crap out of people |
| 06:26.24 | Shawn|Rawr | I think the story could still use some work. If you could mix these designers with the story crew from Fahrenheit, you'd have the most badass horror game of all time |
| 06:26.49 | Mexa | :p |
| 06:27.11 | Mexa | Although the scaryfactor is very subjective |
| 06:27.52 | Mexa | I have another friend who played it, who said he didn't think it was superscary, but he admits there was times where he screamed out loud. |
| 06:28.19 | Vailreth | ive decided the last swarm mastery power, atleast for now, will will be one that doubles your army size by splitting all units it effects in two BUT these units have a timed life so you have to get what you want them to do done before they pop |
| 06:28.26 | Mexa | Tho, then he played it though on one day, and bought Penumbra and that expansion and played those too:P |
| 06:29.06 | Shawn|Rawr | Aww fuck. I just realized Heavy Rain was made by the Fahrenheit guys and now I wanna play it but it's on gay ps3 |
| 06:29.21 | Mexa | hah |
| 06:29.59 | Shawn|Rawr | Nice variation of my idea Vail |
| 06:30.22 | Vailreth | its a mix or yours and Jades lore filled idea |
| 06:30.43 | Mexa | Shawn, buy a ps3, and the uncharted series while you're at it |
| 06:30.48 | Vailreth | i just need a name |
| 06:31.02 | Mexa | Those 3 games should be enough just worthy the buy |
| 06:31.38 | Shawn|Rawr | I'll pass |
| 06:31.45 | Mexa | ;) |
| 06:32.15 | Mexa | Tbh, I've passed too, for the moment. I don't seem to ever have any of that spare money over. |
| 06:32.58 | Shawn|Rawr | I wouldn't waste my money on that |
| 06:33.02 | Shawn|Rawr | I need a better PC |
| 06:33.23 | Mexa | mm, that too unfortunantly. |
| 06:33.25 | Shawn|Rawr | Starcraft > Everything Else |
| 06:34.06 | Vailreth | yes come january i will be putting 100 away each month for a new pc Save the month SC2 HotS comes out then i will be only putting away how ever much is left after i but it |
| 06:34.29 | Shawn|Rawr | 1k will get me the pc i need |
| 06:34.36 | Shawn|Rawr | Build it myself ^.^ |
| 06:34.42 | Vailreth | i plan on that too |
| 06:34.45 | *** join/#sc2mapster ________________ (630a7b35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.10.123.53) |
| 06:36.36 | Shawn|Rawr | Anyone know what next week's funday monday is? |
| 06:36.53 | Vailreth | not a clue |
| 06:37.15 | Vailreth | i think he might have announced it sunday but i cant recall |
| 06:37.44 | Shawn|Rawr | I'm watching todays funday monday now |
| 06:37.48 | Shawn|Rawr | I'll figure it out later |
| 06:38.59 | Shawn|Rawr | Funday Monday: 1. Cannon Rush your opponent 2. Expand to another main 3. Do whatever you want |
| 06:39.39 | Vailreth | damn i play zerg, we dont have cannons |
| 06:39.48 | Shawn|Rawr | You have to play Toss then |
| 06:39.56 | Vailreth | never! |
| 06:40.07 | Vailreth | till i have to work on their MicroCampaign anyway |
| 06:40.17 | Shawn|Rawr | You should be proud. 2 zergs won IPL a couple days ago |
| 06:40.19 | Vailreth | Toss are my mortal enemy... |
| 06:40.32 | Shawn|Rawr | Stephano won it all |
| 06:40.36 | Shawn|Rawr | Lucky taking second |
| 06:40.46 | Shawn|Rawr | Both zergs |
| 06:40.53 | Vailreth | Zerg 4 Evah |
| 06:41.06 | Vailreth | i even dream about the swarm |
| 06:41.39 | Vailreth | dreamed i had a brood and we conqured texas |
| 06:43.50 | Agouti|2 | vailreth: spine crawler rush |
| 06:44.01 | Shawn|Rawr | No Agouti |
| 06:44.04 | Shawn|Rawr | Cannon rush |
| 06:44.10 | Agouti | close enough |
| 06:44.14 | Shawn|Rawr | Not for day9 |
| 06:44.20 | Agouti | and spine rushes are so much better |
| 06:44.32 | Agouti | like actually require skill |
| 06:44.33 | Shawn|Rawr | Funday Monday is cannon rush. No exceptions |
| 06:44.48 | Agouti | doesn't play by the rules |
| 06:56.08 | Shawn|Rawr | Day9 is fucking amazing. |
| 06:56.22 | Shawn|Rawr | If I don't meet him once in my life, it will be incomplete. |
| 07:01.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster XenoX101 (31NAATIDC@ppp118-209-74-216.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 07:13.03 | ________________ | ~hi purl! |
| 07:13.03 | purl | Many greetings, purl!, most strange traveller, to this IRCdom of plenty. |
| 07:36.47 | *** join/#sc2mapster Dekar (~Dekar@p4FCEDF0B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:52.38 | *** join/#sc2mapster Agouti (~Agouti@60-240-3-202.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:03.32 | *** join/#sc2mapster Sublimity (~Sublimity@c-98-247-36-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 08:34.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Hati (~Hati@trir-4d0d9bfb.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:52.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 08:56.12 | XenoX101 | anyone know how to add team colour to a non-team colour unit? |
| 09:05.43 | *** join/#sc2mapster Zoxc (Zoxc@ti0128a380-dhcp0301.bb.online.no) |
| 09:47.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Shadow_Killer (tekoppar@c-4599e455.45-2102-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:48.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster RazielZ (~Raziel@78.97.99.188) |
| 10:03.33 | *** join/#sc2mapster peeeq (~Peter@95-90-42-164-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 11:02.49 | *** join/#sc2mapster XenoX101 (31NAATIDC@ppp118-209-74-216.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 11:20.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa (~Mexa.EU@80.78.216.84) |
| 11:22.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheLaughingMan (~TH3Laughi@99-126-196-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:23.07 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheLaughingMan (~TH3Laughi@99-126-196-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:23.32 | *** part/#sc2mapster TheLaughingMan (~TH3Laughi@99-126-196-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:39.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@p57903263.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:59.55 | Mexa | hi |
| 12:16.51 | Ravonus | good mornings |
| 12:26.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@f055053058.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:33.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-002-020.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 12:57.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa (~Mexa.EU@c-83-233-58-176.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 13:11.41 | *** join/#sc2mapster Quelor (~Quelor@d90-142-131-147.cust.tele2.se) |
| 13:19.01 | *** join/#sc2mapster Sevenix (pheonix@knatte.hep.lu.se) |
| 13:20.58 | *** part/#sc2mapster Quelor (~Quelor@d90-142-131-147.cust.tele2.se) |
| 13:21.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Nash|327 (~nn@81-234-225-23-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:28.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Frall^School (~FrallScho@manhattan.ssark.se) |
| 13:44.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster MindWorX (~MindWorX@188.176.196.178) |
| 14:14.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster ClayMuffin (1835165f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.53.22.95) |
| 14:14.44 | ClayMuffin | Hello folks |
| 14:15.55 | ClayMuffin | I'm having a hard time making an ability that is casted just like stim pack (so no target value aside of self) and put it on auto cast. That ability just wont allow me to trigger with right click the autocast on/off |
| 14:16.33 | ClayMuffin | target self instant (so no need to choose a target, it auto fire the ability on self) |
| 14:21.24 | ClayMuffin | fixed |
| 14:41.15 | *** join/#sc2mapster Xaragoth (~name@176.198.37.24) |
| 15:05.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (b2zelda@79.133.201.85) |
| 15:17.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster peeeq (~Peter@95-90-44-113-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 15:22.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster xttocs (d8a223c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.162.35.198) |
| 15:27.31 | MindWorX | Ohh, xttocs. |
| 15:27.34 | MindWorX | :D |
| 15:28.20 | xttocs | Hey MindWorX |
| 15:28.29 | MindWorX | How've you been? |
| 15:28.53 | xttocs | Pretty good |
| 15:28.58 | xttocs | Busy |
| 15:29.18 | xttocs | Attempting to figure out what to do with my life |
| 15:29.22 | xttocs | You? |
| 15:30.28 | MindWorX | Same actually. I've started developing my own game. I've made a lot of progress, and I'm really enjoying it. |
| 15:30.36 | MindWorX | I'll be back in a few. |
| 15:33.49 | Zoxc | hi xttocs =P |
| 15:34.16 | xttocs | Hey Zoxc |
| 15:34.23 | xttocs | How's it going? |
| 15:38.03 | Zoxc | Slowly, just studing. I need to find some silly project :D |
| 15:40.00 | xttocs | Whatcha studying? |
| 15:49.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster cintiq_ (~cintiq@182-239-176-29.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 15:54.06 | Zoxc | nothing exciting, just some math and physics |
| 15:55.44 | *** join/#sc2mapster egod (4618c4da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.196.218) |
| 15:58.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (b2zelda@79.133.201.85) |
| 16:05.03 | xttocs | I forget, how old are you? |
| 16:06.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (b2zelda@79.133.201.85) |
| 16:09.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Sevenix (pheonix@c-83-233-145-28.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 16:10.48 | *** join/#sc2mapster Xaragoth (~name@176.198.37.24) |
| 16:14.22 | *** part/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (b2zelda@79.133.201.85) |
| 16:15.21 | JademusSreg | I awaken. |
| 16:18.28 | Vailreth | as do i |
| 16:19.52 | Kueken | He awaken again, we should do something about it. |
| 16:20.29 | JademusSreg | The cult in Innsmouth will always be around to ensure my summoning. |
| 16:20.48 | Kueken | hm |
| 16:21.00 | Kueken | are you classified as lesser or greater evil? |
| 16:21.12 | JademusSreg | Depends on my mood. |
| 16:22.04 | JademusSreg | I'm usually in too good a mood to devour the innocent. |
| 16:22.28 | Kueken | do we need to sacrifice a virgin, or can we take a frozen chicken? ;) |
| 16:22.47 | JademusSreg | If you fry it first, that would be acceptable. |
| 16:23.26 | Vailreth | your lucky Jademus i only get summoned by th cult of Bob,....or xena fanboys badly misspronouncing the names |
| 16:23.37 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 16:23.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Enexy (4a67f393@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.103.243.147) |
| 16:24.15 | Enexy | to all the ladies |
| 16:24.23 | JademusSreg | Free drink night? |
| 16:26.20 | ClayMuffin | anybody know about a filter that look like "behing buillt"? |
| 16:26.33 | ClayMuffin | one of my uto cast spell keep targetting building in crontruction |
| 16:26.52 | ClayMuffin | man i make so many mistakes... |
| 16:27.00 | ClayMuffin | typing* |
| 16:27.15 | JademusSreg | Well, take a look at how Chrono Boost and Larva Injection filter out buildings under construction. |
| 16:28.29 | ClayMuffin | Found it, i need a girlfriend to find my stuff in the fridge AND in the editor |
| 16:28.39 | ClayMuffin | i need to grow myself some eyes maybe |
| 16:28.43 | JademusSreg | Hah. |
| 16:28.48 | ClayMuffin | ill see whats the most practical |
| 16:28.54 | ClayMuffin | :D |
| 16:30.12 | Aelia | so |
| 16:30.14 | Aelia | jade |
| 16:30.28 | Aelia | do you think it would be terrible if i tried target selection via trigger |
| 16:30.59 | JademusSreg | It would be less responsive. How many players does your map support? |
| 16:31.04 | Aelia | 8 |
| 16:31.14 | Aelia | i tried a target sort but |
| 16:31.15 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 16:31.18 | Aelia | it seems really buggy |
| 16:31.29 | Aelia | sometimes it shoots at things clearly no where near the range of the tower |
| 16:32.02 | Aelia | and it completely ignores the first enemy to enter its range |
| 16:32.43 | Ravonus | http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-mom-says-sandwich-arrest-horrifying-214407004.html |
| 16:32.46 | Ravonus | :( |
| 16:32.55 | JademusSreg | Alright. Under optimal circumstances, a trigger-based solution will have 250ms. Using an input approach increases seems to increase the delay. |
| 16:33.22 | Kueken | afai a data approach has the same 250 ms, no? |
| 16:33.28 | Aelia | nah |
| 16:33.30 | JademusSreg | And in single player, the delay is so small as to be nearly unnoticable. |
| 16:33.45 | Aelia | i cant think of any other way to make this work |
| 16:33.57 | Aelia | target sorting is possibly the least sensical thing ive tried |
| 16:34.10 | Kueken | target sorts work just fine usually |
| 16:34.10 | JademusSreg | 1/16 game second delay in single player. If only it would work like that on battlenet. |
| 16:34.20 | Kueken | but some kinds of traget sorts dont work properly |
| 16:34.25 | Aelia | like what |
| 16:34.33 | Aelia | i want it to shoot non slowed targets |
| 16:34.45 | Kueken | so you sort by behavior count? |
| 16:34.48 | Aelia | yep |
| 16:34.54 | Kueken | thats usually 100% working |
| 16:35.05 | Aelia | yeah, except it ignores the first enemy |
| 16:35.22 | Kueken | where do you use the sort? |
| 16:35.29 | Kueken | they do not work with weapons |
| 16:35.33 | Aelia | search area fired by the attack |
| 16:35.46 | Kueken | so in a search area effect |
| 16:35.49 | Kueken | k |
| 16:35.50 | Aelia | yep |
| 16:35.54 | Kueken | that should work |
| 16:36.05 | Aelia | can you do a 2 step sort? |
| 16:36.07 | Kueken | at least I never had problems with it |
| 16:36.08 | JademusSreg | Yeah, sounds odd. Hah, I thought you meant using a selection event, though; there's no significant delay if you're doing a script to automate targetting via trigger, but it should be doable via data. |
| 16:36.14 | Kueken | yes |
| 16:36.23 | Aelia | the second i add a second sort it completely ignores the whole thing |
| 16:36.39 | Kueken | the order is important |
| 16:36.42 | Aelia | ok |
| 16:36.45 | JademusSreg | Also, custom sort or standard? |
| 16:37.00 | Aelia | i have (non slowed|TSDistance) |
| 16:37.06 | Aelia | completely ignored |
| 16:37.10 | Aelia | tried the reverse |
| 16:37.13 | Aelia | also completely ignored |
| 16:37.20 | Kueken | strange |
| 16:37.26 | Kueken | send me the map |
| 16:37.36 | Enexy | what is this place |
| 16:37.37 | Aelia | you should have the latest version |
| 16:37.38 | Aelia | D: |
| 16:37.44 | Aelia | unless you deleted it |
| 16:37.48 | Enexy | where am I |
| 16:37.58 | ClayMuffin | Are you smoking crack son? |
| 16:38.11 | Enexy | who |
| 16:38.13 | A1win | good day |
| 16:38.35 | Kueken | which tower do I look at? |
| 16:38.41 | Kueken | or which effect |
| 16:38.51 | JademusSreg | Hi A1. |
| 16:38.58 | Enexy | hi |
| 16:39.06 | Enexy | oh a1 |
| 16:39.13 | JademusSreg | Hi En. |
| 16:39.36 | Enexy | hi |
| 16:39.50 | JademusSreg | What brings you to the irc channel? |
| 16:39.56 | *** join/#sc2mapster Aelia (despair@cpe-66-61-38-90.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 16:40.02 | Aelia | crashed D: |
| 16:40.05 | A1win | I planned too complex power system, I can't figure out the algorithm to calculate how much each generator consumes fuel if there are power users that require too much of it D: |
| 16:40.08 | Aelia | mirc is pretty unstable nowadays |
| 16:40.08 | Kueken | set the Value to 0 |
| 16:40.16 | Kueken | for the target sorts |
| 16:40.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thenarden (~Miranda@HSI-KBW-078-043-002-020.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:40.50 | A1win | or rather, I tried to plan a too complex system, and failed :x |
| 16:41.04 | JademusSreg | I don't have any trouble with my illegitimately obtained version of mirc. |
| 16:41.32 | A1win | get a linux shell and use http://www.irssi.org/ |
| 16:41.43 | JademusSreg | Which version are you running, Ael? |
| 16:42.03 | *** join/#sc2mapster Aelia (despair@cpe-66-61-38-90.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 16:42.13 | JademusSreg | Which version are you running, Ael? |
| 16:42.22 | Enexy | If say dialog items 1, 2, 3, were displayed on screen in that order. And dialog 2 disappeared, how would I display them on screen as 1, 3... instead of 1, , 3 |
| 16:42.36 | Enexy | the fastest method |
| 16:43.51 | *** join/#sc2mapster Aelia (despair@cpe-66-61-38-90.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 16:43.56 | JademusSreg | If you store them in an array, move them all up to fill the gap (very simple iterative sort), and assign position by position in the array, probably by operating on the index values to get position. |
| 16:44.05 | JademusSreg | That's a fairly general solution. |
| 16:44.18 | JademusSreg | But basically you just have to set the position of the other dialog items. |
| 16:45.10 | JademusSreg | Only shit like list dialog items have sorting of some kind built in, iirc. |
| 16:46.37 | *** join/#sc2mapster Aelia (despair@cpe-66-61-38-90.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 16:46.45 | Aelia | why does mirc crash when i right click |
| 16:47.33 | Aelia | anyhow |
| 16:47.43 | Aelia | you should have my latest version kueken |
| 16:47.48 | Kueken | yes |
| 16:47.57 | Kueken | try changing the Value for the target sorts to 0 |
| 16:48.11 | Aelia | ? |
| 16:48.16 | Aelia | what do you mean |
| 16:48.27 | Kueken | the field named Value |
| 16:48.30 | Aelia | oh.. |
| 16:48.32 | Aelia | ill try it |
| 16:48.33 | Kueken | in the target sort |
| 16:54.02 | Aelia | its even more unpredictable |
| 16:54.12 | Aelia | now it sometimes spreads out the shots |
| 16:54.25 | Aelia | and sometimes focuses one for 5 shots in a row, ignoring a bunch of unslowed |
| 16:55.54 | Aelia | if i add a second sort |
| 16:56.00 | Aelia | it completely ignores the slow one |
| 16:59.31 | Aelia | any ideas? |
| 17:05.13 | JademusSreg | http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/01/play-with-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-units-now-on-modders-custom-map/ |
| 17:05.22 | JademusSreg | Xeno, you got newsed. |
| 17:05.52 | XenoX101 | oh sweet |
| 17:06.30 | XenoX101 | thanks for that thats awesome :) |
| 17:06.44 | JademusSreg | No problem. =D |
| 17:09.42 | A1win | simplified power grid: 1) calculate amount of power required in each grid 2) calculate power consumed 3) divide fuel consumption rate equally among power sources |
| 17:10.15 | A1win | just need to undo my multi-cable system which I spent hours working on yesterday =P |
| 17:10.44 | A1win | planning, pssh |
| 17:11.09 | Kueken | aelia: just tried it in a small testmap, and works flawlessly |
| 17:11.30 | Kueken | something is wrong with your settings, but I didn't find it yet |
| 17:12.45 | Aelia | ok |
| 17:15.16 | Kueken | ah |
| 17:15.27 | Aelia | ? |
| 17:15.31 | Kueken | you selected Target for the Unit+ field |
| 17:15.37 | Kueken | reset that to unknown |
| 17:18.35 | Kueken | Sixen steps down from being Diablofans admin? |
| 17:18.46 | Kueken | does he quit mapster as well? |
| 17:20.10 | JademusSreg | Hm. |
| 17:20.22 | JademusSreg | Ominous. |
| 17:24.04 | ClayMuffin | that would be sad indeed |
| 17:24.18 | Vailreth | yes |
| 17:24.25 | *** join/#sc2mapster TheLaughingMan (~TH3Laughi@99-126-196-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:24.29 | ClayMuffin | How long has he been admin on mapster? |
| 17:24.35 | *** part/#sc2mapster TheLaughingMan (~TH3Laughi@99-126-196-172.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:24.47 | Vailreth | from what i know like the begining |
| 17:25.00 | ClayMuffin | Hum... |
| 17:25.19 | ClayMuffin | Well, time for math class, see you around guys |
| 17:25.41 | Vailreth | i feel old |
| 17:28.47 | Kueken | feels good, doesn't it? ;) |
| 17:29.17 | Vailreth | oh yes it feels wonderful... |
| 17:29.39 | Kueken | hm |
| 17:29.54 | Kueken | why do I feel so sarcastic suddenly? |
| 17:31.17 | JademusSreg | You have a brain tumor pressing on your sarcastal region. |
| 17:53.35 | *** join/#sc2mapster Daara (62a8c8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.168.200.226) |
| 18:03.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Chrono^ (~Chrono@rngftw.com) |
| 18:15.53 | Vailreth | well three out of six abilities working is pretty good, now to start the other three |
| 18:16.52 | A1win | trying to figure out what kind of data structure to use for my power grids |
| 18:17.47 | A1win | I need a way to know which units belong to the same power grid and be able to update that info whenever grids are united or separated |
| 18:18.52 | Aelia | Kueken: value = 0 and target = unknown? |
| 18:19.00 | Kueken | yep |
| 18:20.23 | A1win | what I thought of is having one unit array of all units that can be connected to a grid, and each unit in it has its own index in a custom value... another unit group array of all power cables that are connected to the unit of that index (and that unit is also part of the unit group so the link goes both ways)... and one unit group array which has one power grid in each index |
| 18:21.13 | Aelia | doesnt help |
| 18:21.15 | A1win | and the power cables have their source and target indices in their custom values |
| 18:21.31 | Aelia | it still hits unit 2, then 4, then 5, then 6, |
| 18:25.02 | A1win | does anyone know if storing units to a data table works or am I just doing something wrong D: |
| 18:25.22 | A1win | when I load a unit from there, it doesn't seem to refer to the unit anymore |
| 18:37.57 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 18:44.40 | Vailreth | atrosis Pylon |
| 18:45.29 | Vailreth | any way any one feel like speculating about hots MP Beta starting date? |
| 18:47.39 | Aelia | next thursday |
| 18:47.41 | Kueken | no |
| 18:47.55 | Vailreth | hah. |
| 18:49.08 | b2zeldafreak | is it another opt-in beta? |
| 18:49.13 | Vailreth | i figure beta will start feb or march next year... |
| 18:49.46 | Vailreth | no clue |
| 18:49.54 | Vailreth | im just speculating on things |
| 18:50.14 | b2zeldafreak | Oh nevermind, theres just one opt-in for all Blizzard betas |
| 18:50.24 | Vailreth | ah |
| 18:50.40 | b2zeldafreak | it's just one on battle.net |
| 18:51.04 | b2zeldafreak | scratch that i lied |
| 18:51.11 | b2zeldafreak | i am wrong, you have to opt-in per game |
| 18:51.18 | Vailreth | ah. |
| 18:53.43 | Daara | hmm |
| 18:54.03 | Daara | so i want this mage to do its casting animation before it fires off its attack |
| 18:54.19 | Daara | it's just its normal attack so...how would i go about doing that |
| 18:56.44 | JademusSreg | Actor events. |
| 18:56.48 | JademusSreg | pew pew |
| 18:56.49 | JademusSreg | brb |
| 18:57.08 | Daara | well i have it set as Opening - Spell , Content - Empty, Closing - Spell A |
| 18:57.20 | Daara | But the missile fires at the opening |
| 18:57.22 | Daara | rather than the closing |
| 19:00.17 | Ravonus | AHHHH |
| 19:00.31 | *** part/#sc2mapster Ravonus (43874626@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.135.70.38) |
| 19:04.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Chrono^ (Chrono@145.116.237.102) |
| 19:05.34 | *** join/#sc2mapster Hati-Laptop (~Hati@trir-5d805ea9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:17.59 | b2zeldafreak | at what point in making a map do people usually post it on the forums? |
| 19:18.08 | b2zeldafreak | *or post a topic aobut it |
| 19:21.21 | A1win | depends on how desperate you are for attention or how lucky you think you are for getting useful feedback from there |
| 19:22.42 | *** join/#sc2mapster Stewox (~chatzilla@86.58.34.166) |
| 19:22.47 | Stewox | hi guys |
| 19:23.10 | Stewox | cutscene editor ... |
| 19:23.40 | Stewox | it's going to make machinimia ...what great stuff in hots i can't stop repeating my selp |
| 19:24.19 | Stewox | i shouldn't even think about the UI editor |
| 19:25.20 | Deaod | and yet were still limited to a pos VM |
| 19:28.04 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa (~Mexa.EU@c-83-233-58-176.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 19:28.31 | Stewox | that's freaking crazy i can make exactly what i had in mind but was so |
| 19:28.33 | Stewox | hm |
| 19:28.36 | Stewox | Vm |
| 19:28.39 | Stewox | VM ? |
| 19:29.07 | Stewox | not much idea ... i haven't even ivestigated the current system fully |
| 19:29.18 | Mexa | http://www.humblebundle.com/ |
| 19:29.21 | Mexa | =D |
| 19:29.30 | Stewox | im first to sc2engine modding so ... no idea before so it's a bit harder for me |
| 19:29.43 | Stewox | also |
| 19:29.56 | Stewox | my biggest lol for blizzcon was: minecraft costume |
| 19:30.10 | Deaod | basically, SC2 has a Virtual Machine that executes compiled Galaxy code |
| 19:30.24 | Daara | someone explain to me why this isn't working |
| 19:30.29 | Mexa | What's the topic, Deaod, Stewox? |
| 19:30.37 | Daara | I made my weapon use an effect that causes an initial delay |
| 19:30.48 | Daara | after the delay it uses the original weapon effect |
| 19:30.51 | Deaod | that VM has a few flaws, the biggest of which is that you can only have 2MB of data in memory |
| 19:30.55 | Daara | yet it doesn't do it |
| 19:31.19 | Deaod | Mexa, im just complaining about the utter lack of updates to SC2s VM |
| 19:31.38 | Mexa | Deaod, thats the heap memory though, isn't it? |
| 19:31.51 | Stewox | technologically speaking SC2 isn't as advanced ... as many games at first ... but then the VM and scripts |
| 19:32.18 | Deaod | no, thats the total amount of memory SC2s VM can address |
| 19:32.34 | Stewox | i watched quakecon fully and carmack said: script debuggers are bad , you don't want programmers that aren't really programmers program |
| 19:32.37 | Deaod | so function locals count towards it as well |
| 19:32.54 | Mexa | Deaod, but it's incorrect. Only global variables and functions and structs etc suffer from the 2MB limit |
| 19:32.56 | Deaod | which i think is called stack |
| 19:33.02 | Mexa | As the local got it's own. |
| 19:33.05 | Mexa | *its |
| 19:33.16 | Deaod | meh |
| 19:33.19 | Stewox | basically blizzard's doing all good for ease of access in modding, this trigger scripts are not real programming , and their game performance suffer for it |
| 19:33.21 | Deaod | might as well be |
| 19:33.34 | Stewox | they shouldn't worry about making modding easy |
| 19:33.40 | Stewox | or simple |
| 19:33.59 | Deaod | but i remember an error back from beta days that said functions can only have like 32KB stack memory |
| 19:34.06 | Deaod | errr |
| 19:34.08 | Mexa | Stewox, the definition of "programming" is ambiguous. I had a chat with Aelie about that for some time ago. |
| 19:34.11 | Stewox | the simplicity is the layers of scripts that the performance goes down and that's why some wrong script lags the whole game |
| 19:34.12 | Mexa | *Aelia |
| 19:34.15 | Deaod | yeah, hope its clear |
| 19:35.13 | Stewox | mexa |
| 19:35.40 | Stewox | programming is not trigger scripting and DATA in sc2 |
| 19:35.50 | Stewox | we aren't programming anything |
| 19:35.50 | Deaod | huh? |
| 19:35.51 | Mexa | The term is ambigous. |
| 19:36.20 | Deaod | isnt programming just "getting a machine to do what you want"? |
| 19:36.27 | Stewox | no |
| 19:36.35 | Stewox | programming is more of low-language stuff |
| 19:36.38 | Mexa | Depends on the definition you want to use, lol |
| 19:36.40 | Shawn|Rawr | It sure feels like programming |
| 19:36.51 | Stewox | XML cannot be programming |
| 19:36.54 | Stewox | real programming |
| 19:37.02 | Deaod | oh, so ASM is programming |
| 19:37.09 | Deaod | but pascal isnt? |
| 19:37.16 | Stewox | nothing in SC2 editor is programming |
| 19:37.17 | Mexa | Giving the computer a set of instructions could be called 'programming' |
| 19:37.24 | *** join/#sc2mapster Twiner (~Twiner@c-75-68-114-20.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 19:37.25 | JademusSreg | Mexa may be refering to programming methodology, as opposed to the dictionary-definiton of instructing a machine. |
| 19:37.25 | Stewox | we have data editing and scripting |
| 19:37.37 | Mexa | C++ is highlevel, by your definition stewox, C++ isn't programming |
| 19:37.38 | Stewox | yeah jade i gathered ... |
| 19:37.44 | Stewox | no |
| 19:37.56 | Deaod | i agree that data editing isnt programming |
| 19:37.58 | Stewox | XML is not programming , as well as Triggers in SC2 - |
| 19:38.06 | Deaod | i can kinda get how GUI isnt programming |
| 19:38.20 | Deaod | but galaxy itself very much is programming |
| 19:38.26 | Stewox | sadly it's not what you all have hoped for ... SC2 started in 2004 |
| 19:38.33 | Deaod | albeit horribly restricted |
| 19:38.34 | Mexa | I like this discussion, it's always fucking derpity. |
| 19:38.52 | Stewox | Deaod |
| 19:39.01 | Stewox | i watched blizzcon pannels fully |
| 19:39.13 | Deaod | so? |
| 19:39.13 | Stewox | one guy asked about the script limit increase |
| 19:39.16 | *** join/#sc2mapster Daara_ (62a8c8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.168.200.226) |
| 19:39.22 | Daara_ | hey jade |
| 19:39.29 | Stewox | and the response was: I hope so, i like playing mafia |
| 19:39.30 | Mexa | Yesyes and the answr was, I hope so, because I like Mafia |
| 19:39.30 | Deaod | yeah, i saw that as well |
| 19:39.39 | Daara_ | so i made an effect with an initial delay |
| 19:39.51 | Deaod | which is a poor answer |
| 19:39.51 | Stewox | im not sure if that response was sarcasm or not |
| 19:39.58 | Daara_ | the initial effect is the previous effect |
| 19:40.04 | Daara_ | why doesn't the initial effect go off? |
| 19:40.07 | Deaod | oh, he meant it |
| 19:40.10 | Deaod | im sure |
| 19:40.13 | Mexa | Hey guys, instead of thinking about the limit as a negative thing, think of it as a challenge |
| 19:40.20 | Deaod | but what he said didnt tell us anything |
| 19:40.29 | Mexa | Think of it as performance and resource optimization |
| 19:40.58 | Daara_ | calling jademusreg |
| 19:40.59 | Stewox | i think... |
| 19:41.11 | Deaod | well, the way i experience it, you can either use a ton of memory, or use a ton of CPU cycles |
| 19:41.12 | Stewox | that it's done for security |
| 19:41.20 | Stewox | definitely "mafia" as hackers |
| 19:41.30 | Mexa | what? |
| 19:41.39 | Deaod | no, its a design decision, all instructions in the VM are 32 bit long |
| 19:41.42 | b2zeldafreak | I played Mafia |
| 19:41.48 | b2zeldafreak | I thought it was a bit boring xP |
| 19:42.12 | Stewox | different context zelda ... scroll up |
| 19:42.14 | Mexa | Deaod, why does that matter? |
| 19:42.17 | b2zeldafreak | oh lol |
| 19:42.28 | Stewox | it does |
| 19:42.38 | Stewox | they prolly won't go to 64 bit soon |
| 19:42.40 | Aelia | b2zeldafreak: depends on if you like mafia as a game, first |
| 19:42.40 | Mexa | I asked why, not that it does. |
| 19:42.59 | Aelia | if you dont like the game mafia, whether its sc2, or irc, or real life, youre not gonna like it |
| 19:43.10 | Stewox | we're not talking about the game |
| 19:43.11 | Daara_ | it's alright imo |
| 19:43.19 | Mexa | Potatoes are gonna potate. |
| 19:43.26 | b2zeldafreak | thats true i guess, but i think the real life version is more fun that sc2 version |
| 19:43.28 | Stewox | were talking about something blizz said ... and what he meant with mafia is a question |
| 19:43.32 | Xaragoth | I like the mafia game in RL |
| 19:43.35 | Xaragoth | makes pretty penny |
| 19:43.41 | Deaod | because if you cant use less bits for the instructions |
| 19:43.54 | Deaod | i mean the actual opcodes |
| 19:44.16 | Stewox | well good think HOTS will eventually get quad-core support , there's also more extreme options for GFX as well |
| 19:44.24 | Deaod | then you cant increase the amount of memory the VM can address |
| 19:44.26 | Mexa | I don't see why opcodes would be any less than 32bit long, considering there are plenty of opcodes. |
| 19:44.36 | Stewox | deaod ... i still don't agree Galaxy is programming , it's scripting |
| 19:44.47 | Deaod | yes its a scriptlanguage |
| 19:45.02 | Mexa | The difference between what programming and scripting is today, is minor. |
| 19:45.06 | Stewox | the compiler is a script compiler , the debugger is just exposing the scripts |
| 19:45.12 | Stewox | mexa that's totally off |
| 19:45.14 | Deaod | but how is that a good distinction, most scripting languages are compiled down to ASM anyway |
| 19:45.17 | Mexa | It's not. |
| 19:45.30 | Stewox | i recommend you watch quakecon 2011 carmack keynote |
| 19:45.40 | Stewox | you challenge the master ? |
| 19:45.42 | Mexa | Would you consider java a scripting language, and java programmers as scripters? |
| 19:45.57 | Mexa | And C#? |
| 19:45.59 | Stewox | Galaxy is not java |
| 19:46.07 | Deaod | its damn close |
| 19:46.10 | Stewox | Galaxy is a custom scripting language |
| 19:46.50 | Mexa | Deaod, I'm just saying that the definition has changed, as if "who cares" and almost "same shit different name" when it comes to what the developer is doing. |
| 19:46.52 | b2zeldafreak | I've always read that galaxy is closest to C++ |
| 19:47.07 | Deaod | C! |
| 19:47.07 | Stewox | you can only make triggers - you cannot operate the game with it . and im not trying to be smart or anything , because im quite ...well it's not that of a revolution from WC3 ... technologically it's an evolution |
| 19:47.10 | Deaod | not C++ |
| 19:47.14 | Stewox | zelda |
| 19:47.14 | Mexa | It's a limited version of C, more |
| 19:47.22 | Stewox | that's only syntax as it looks similar |
| 19:47.29 | Stewox | it's not C either |
| 19:47.34 | Stewox | that's all the syntax |
| 19:47.45 | Mexa | duh |
| 19:47.55 | Stewox | it's not programming , it's not an derivative |
| 19:48.06 | Stewox | you have to run the emulation pipeline to make it work |
| 19:48.24 | b2zeldafreak | i agree with that for sure |
| 19:48.25 | Mexa | So again, is Java and C# scripting languages, by your definition? |
| 19:48.27 | Stewox | there's the C++ layer we cannot access because it's compiled of course , the source |
| 19:48.38 | b2zeldafreak | WC3 had jass , SC2 has galaxy custom |
| 19:48.44 | Stewox | the source is not public obviously |
| 19:48.59 | Stewox | it's a scripting evolution |
| 19:48.59 | Deaod | the only difference between Java and galaxy is that galaxy's bytecode is interpreted, not compiled on-the-fly to machinecode |
| 19:49.12 | Stewox | deaod |
| 19:49.19 | Stewox | understand there are layers |
| 19:49.23 | Deaod | i do. |
| 19:49.32 | Stewox | and the VM pipeline needs to convert and interpret that |
| 19:49.40 | Mexa | Yesyes, frontend here, backend there. |
| 19:49.57 | Stewox | that's why the performance goes down , it just does |
| 19:50.04 | Mexa | So |
| 19:50.17 | Mexa | Is Java and C# a scripting language, by your definition? |
| 19:50.18 | Stewox | the recently released game RAGE is almost all programming , very little scripting |
| 19:50.54 | Stewox | im exampling this as to break the difference , im not really arguing , it's kind of interesting to discover how it works |
| 19:51.23 | Stewox | well look i have a lot of things in my minds and i try to remember what carmack said so be patient |
| 19:52.27 | Mexa | Why galaxy and other game's scripting languages have though, is a tradeoff. |
| 19:52.45 | Mexa | You sacrifice performance at the cost of it being easier to learn and use |
| 19:52.53 | Mexa | For "non-programmers" |
| 19:53.42 | Stewox | im just talking in the perfect scenario |
| 19:53.44 | Mexa | If Blizzard were to provide and expose a C++ API, not only would it be less safe, but also there would probably be a smaller modding community. |
| 19:54.10 | Stewox | that if you really think about it , we aren't programming what we're doing in sc2 |
| 19:54.21 | Stewox | that's not going to happen ... |
| 19:54.28 | Stewox | and also , it doesnt need to |
| 19:54.29 | Deaod | yes we are, just at a very high level |
| 19:54.42 | Stewox | okay ... that anology yes |
| 19:54.53 | Mexa | It's programming, just as much as developing in C# and Java is. |
| 19:54.58 | Mexa | The definition has changed. |
| 19:55.05 | Kueken | why is the terminology important, anyway? |
| 19:55.11 | Deaod | no idea. |
| 19:55.24 | Stewox | but if you talked to industry professional you'll see that programming is way overbroadly used and it's not used for every "parameter editing" |
| 19:55.30 | Deaod | scripting usually has a bit of a negative connotation |
| 19:55.35 | Mexa | ^ |
| 19:55.46 | Mexa | go home skiddies :> |
| 19:55.52 | Kueken | deal |
| 19:56.04 | Stewox | well from a standpoint that we actually know what we're doing ... galaxy is not that powerful as you might think , it's limited to ONLY triggers |
| 19:56.22 | Kueken | you tell me... |
| 19:56.46 | Mexa | You could as much see a trigger as a non-parallized thread. |
| 19:56.52 | Stewox | look |
| 19:57.10 | Deaod | oh, id like SC2 to have a decent VM that would handle all the gameplay stuff, just look at Unreal Engine |
| 19:57.14 | Stewox | in diehard terminologiy still scripting |
| 19:57.46 | Stewox | well oh snap , look , it's still called UnrealScript |
| 19:57.59 | Deaod | and what you do is still called programming |
| 19:58.04 | Mexa | as much as hackers by diehard terminology is what hackers were in the old days? |
| 19:58.25 | Kueken | as in hackers are the good guys? |
| 19:58.44 | Deaod | no, doing complex shit to relatively simple machines |
| 19:58.45 | Mexa | I wasn't really referring to that |
| 19:58.50 | b2zeldafreak | hackers are just people who take things apart/ make thing |
| 19:59.01 | Deaod | vs. todays exploiting software faults |
| 19:59.03 | JademusSreg | Is this a dialogue or a mess? I can't discern the contributers' points. |
| 19:59.12 | Deaod | a mess. |
| 19:59.14 | Deaod | definitely. |
| 19:59.23 | Kueken | I like a good mess ;) |
| 19:59.44 | Kueken | add some tabasco and we are set. |
| 20:00.02 | Stewox | The Call of Duty uses IDTech engines and look in COD4 they used quite hard language for the game ... yet it was still scripting, you didn't had editor , nothign , you had to learn it from scratch , it's was a C++ derivative , i am 100% it was "C++ derivative" because an IW programer confirmed that on IWNation.com forums |
| 20:00.20 | Stewox | and that code was way more advanced than Galaxy ... it was still scripting |
| 20:00.27 | Kueken | I think you made your point ;) |
| 20:00.39 | Stewox | and the dedicated server console had in-built debugger ... it was still a script debugger |
| 20:00.42 | b2zeldafreak | doesn't scripting just refer to a program that is run through an interpreter? |
| 20:00.52 | Mexa | I understand your definition stewox, but it's rather "same shit different name" in the today's sense. |
| 20:01.12 | Mexa | Except that it's not entirely true. |
| 20:01.28 | Stewox | and at quakecon2011 Carmack looked back on this ... and said that scripting was done so it's easier to mod and to make the game tweakable for "programmers that aren't really programmers" |
| 20:01.39 | Stewox | these are the words of the Carmack |
| 20:01.47 | Stewox | What are you saying it's not true |
| 20:01.47 | Mexa | You could call it that, yea |
| 20:02.00 | Stewox | go talk to him |
| 20:02.09 | Deaod | well, he has his view |
| 20:02.10 | Stewox | im just saying what he says |
| 20:02.10 | Mexa | I've seen the quakecon |
| 20:02.14 | Mexa | No worries. |
| 20:02.21 | Mexa | I get the terminology |
| 20:02.24 | Mexa | So again |
| 20:02.26 | Stewox | and you prolly didn't understand half of it :p |
| 20:02.29 | Stewox | i watched it 5 times |
| 20:02.33 | Mexa | Would you consider Java and C# as scripting? |
| 20:02.36 | Stewox | takes 3hrs |
| 20:02.54 | Mexa | It's the fourth time, I want to hear why it is, or why it's not. |
| 20:03.00 | Stewox | C# totally - more familiar to C |
| 20:03.22 | Deaod | is it scripting or not? |
| 20:03.24 | Stewox | I have no idea how to scrpit in SC2 maybe cause i have no ide about java |
| 20:03.38 | Deaod | thats a yes/no question |
| 20:03.40 | Stewox | but java is not galaxy and the other way around , Galaxy is limited so much |
| 20:03.55 | b2zeldafreak | on a separate note, wheres a good place to start with learning how to make good terrain? |
| 20:04.22 | Stewox | C# in Win forms for visual studio is ... high language programming |
| 20:04.28 | Kueken | you could watch some sc2streamster terraining episodes |
| 20:04.31 | Stewox | it's higher than C++ definitely |
| 20:04.41 | Kueken | having a look at nicely terrained maps might help as well |
| 20:04.58 | b2zeldafreak | k thanks |
| 20:05.10 | Kueken | however, I might be the wrong person to give advice here |
| 20:05.12 | Deaod | again, are Java or C# scripting languages in your opinion or not? [Yes/No] |
| 20:05.16 | Kueken | I can't terrain for shit ;) |
| 20:05.21 | b2zeldafreak | me either |
| 20:05.26 | b2zeldafreak | hence the question :P |
| 20:05.28 | Stewox | C# is usable to quickly make window aplication , some tool or someting on a smaller scope , i wouldn't use C# for anything else |
| 20:05.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster peeeq (~Peter@95-90-44-113-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:05.54 | Kueken | How would the data editor be called then? ;) |
| 20:06.07 | JademusSreg | I terrain. |
| 20:06.07 | Kueken | xml = scripting? |
| 20:06.10 | Stewox | well ... there are, C&C tiberium wars was C# , but games are rare ... |
| 20:06.34 | Kueken | or rather just adding entries to a database |
| 20:06.37 | Kueken | sort of |
| 20:06.40 | Stewox | deaod |
| 20:06.45 | Stewox | cannot said yes no |
| 20:06.50 | JademusSreg | I approach terrain like telling a story, a narrative of the events the land has experienced. |
| 20:06.51 | Deaod | why? |
| 20:06.52 | Stewox | first |
| 20:06.56 | Stewox | i have no idea about java |
| 20:07.15 | Stewox | and second i only used C# for windows forms in VSCPP |
| 20:07.19 | Deaod | do you understand how Java is executed? |
| 20:07.25 | Deaod | or C# |
| 20:07.28 | Stewox | never touched java |
| 20:07.35 | Stewox | never did anything with java |
| 20:07.50 | Deaod | thats okay, do you know how C# is executed? |
| 20:08.08 | Stewox | it just weird for me , seen it once and didn't like it - i said this a number of times here - when helral was doing custom ui with java |
| 20:08.39 | Stewox | no how wouly i know in VS |
| 20:08.55 | Stewox | i made a few apps as tools , windows UI |
| 20:09.13 | Stewox | and using C++ would have been very hard for me ... to use it from scratch |
| 20:09.20 | Stewox | but it's programming |
| 20:09.25 | Stewox | C# is programming |
| 20:09.52 | Stewox | the way it's used in WINFORMS it's a bit of a more ... even higher level |
| 20:10.17 | Stewox | that's because the UI code is being made automatically |
| 20:11.55 | Stewox | can't really compare it to ... what Carmack was talking in terms of modding |
| 20:12.09 | Stewox | RAGE modding tools haven't been released yet |
| 20:12.26 | Stewox | might be some little scripting for menus i suppose |
| 20:12.32 | Stewox | but most of the game is programmed |
| 20:13.05 | Stewox | that means they're using the same low-level language for pretty much everything else , no need for any scripting or trigger language |
| 20:13.46 | Stewox | the more low-level language they use , better the performance |
| 20:14.04 | Deaod | i call bullshit on that one |
| 20:14.49 | Stewox | oh and even on that menu stuff, Carmack said "all that flash GUI stuff we used is being converted to C++, because the interpeter is taking too long ..." |
| 20:15.00 | Stewox | which one ? |
| 20:15.45 | Deaod | low-level lanaguage meaning better performance |
| 20:16.05 | Stewox | well i said that before - that's the biggest reason |
| 20:16.16 | Stewox | eh that's the whole point im talking about it |
| 20:16.46 | Stewox | Carmack totally dismissed ease of modding - you'll just have to know it to use mod tools in Rage |
| 20:17.03 | Stewox | the whole point why they dumped script debuggers |
| 20:17.22 | *** join/#sc2mapster Aelia (despair@cpe-66-61-38-90.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 20:17.24 | Stewox | performance goes to hell once you put these XML stuff above |
| 20:17.33 | Deaod | the point is that every language youre going to use will be converted into machine code some way or another |
| 20:17.39 | Stewox | yes |
| 20:17.55 | Stewox | there's always interpreting going on for each higher level |
| 20:18.07 | Stewox | for that XML as well |
| 20:18.20 | Deaod | claiming that some language will automatically get you better performance is bullshit |
| 20:18.22 | Stewox | the SC2 VM interprets the XML |
| 20:18.26 | Deaod | no. |
| 20:18.31 | Stewox | no ? |
| 20:18.38 | Stewox | well it doesn't compile it |
| 20:18.40 | Deaod | the VM interprets galaxy code |
| 20:18.47 | Stewox | okay ... |
| 20:19.02 | Stewox | yeah so XML is not being interpreted nor compiled |
| 20:19.03 | Deaod | some other subsystem of SC2 converts the XML into tangible stuff |
| 20:19.28 | Deaod | i dont know anything about how its done, reallyu |
| 20:19.29 | Stewox | because if XML been left as XML .... performance would have been poor |
| 20:19.31 | Deaod | -u |
| 20:19.42 | Stewox | in Generals ZH |
| 20:19.48 | Stewox | INI |
| 20:20.14 | Stewox | that was just parameters for the programming language ... |
| 20:20.47 | Stewox | i think XML is the same thing just got more options to dynamically navigate the code ? |
| 20:21.08 | Stewox | but it think under the hood it's quite a different interpretation |
| 20:21.22 | Stewox | well |
| 20:22.09 | Stewox | Rage's modding tools will be at intensity of something like Cryengine Sandbox Editor 3 |
| 20:22.12 | Mexa | Deaod, I recall galaxy is compiled to bytecode. |
| 20:22.16 | Stewox | if not even better |
| 20:22.24 | Deaod | which is then interpreted by the VM |
| 20:22.28 | Mexa | yeah |
| 20:22.32 | Deaod | yeah |
| 20:22.41 | Mexa | nvm :> |
| 20:23.04 | Stewox | the interpreter makes the performance - how good the interpreter that good the performance |
| 20:23.27 | Deaod | anyway, for me, XML is a huge number of templates |
| 20:23.39 | Deaod | those templates are implemented in native code |
| 20:23.45 | Stewox | not even a reason to call it VM - because that's "the interpreter2 |
| 20:23.49 | Stewox | 2=" |
| 20:24.09 | Stewox | templates ? |
| 20:24.10 | Deaod | i mean, otherwise there wouldnt really be an advantage to using all this XML |
| 20:24.38 | Stewox | when i looked inside XML --- it just kind of worked like as it always did , the editor makes it look different |
| 20:24.58 | Stewox | so haven't you seen at blizzcon , they realized it's just easier sometimes to edit raw xml |
| 20:25.04 | Mexa | [21:13] <Stewox> the more low-level language they use , better the performance -About that. I was told by my teacher today, that that's mostly what old men use to say. Face it though, in the early days of using low-end assembly code, the compilers for other highlevel languages was poor. Today, compilers will make the job done for you, better than you would if you wrote, say assembly yourself. |
| 20:25.08 | Deaod | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:25.25 | Mexa | *low-level |
| 20:25.57 | Deaod | writing assembly is also a good way to get rid of sanity |
| 20:26.31 | Stewox | they actually made the editor to reach broader audience to make modding , not against this at all , good stuff for hots , but you see how a real technical guy on the IDSoftware side wants to go away from that broader reach ... and Rage modding tools will be really hard to use |
| 20:26.44 | Mexa | Deaod, I hope you were ironic there |
| 20:27.20 | Stewox | even DICE said that Frostbite 2 tools were so "hard" to use they won't going to relase it . but that's difffernt , i call this DLC commercial decision, nothing too hard , modders figure out sooner or later |
| 20:27.32 | Stewox | deaod |
| 20:27.43 | Stewox | writting assembly is a good way to optimize the game |
| 20:27.47 | Mexa | As much as reverse engineerers will figure out everything sooner or later as well. |
| 20:27.57 | Stewox | the best language to make it superfast |
| 20:27.59 | Stewox | just figure |
| 20:28.15 | Mexa | Stewox, you don't need assembly for that many things any more |
| 20:28.16 | Mexa | It |
| 20:28.18 | Deaod | i wouldnt want to write the entire engine in ASM |
| 20:28.23 | Stewox | what if everything been in assembly, games, drivers, OS , .... |
| 20:28.26 | Mexa | ''s all done pretty flawlessly by a compiler. |
| 20:28.30 | Stewox | just imagine the perofrmance |
| 20:28.55 | Stewox | writting in assembly is ; time consuming and hard , that's the major thing why higher languages are used |
| 20:28.58 | *** join/#sc2mapster Skiz_brok (~skizot@pool-96-252-169-117.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:29.20 | Deaod | i like to remember the one time some idiot tried to convince me that his JASS code for parallel arrays was better than what vJass generated. |
| 20:29.42 | Deaod | it wasnt faster. |
| 20:29.43 | Stewox | well i have never heard about JASS |
| 20:29.46 | Mexa | performancewise, minisculed. |
| 20:29.54 | Stewox | it's not assembly |
| 20:29.57 | Mexa | devlopment wise, vJass. |
| 20:30.07 | Mexa | *e |
| 20:30.13 | *** join/#sc2mapster Skiz_brok (~skizot@pool-96-252-169-117.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:30.38 | Deaod | basically, vJass was an extension to JASS, much like C is an extension to ASM |
| 20:31.05 | Mexa | Deaod, I would rather compare C/C++ or something:P |
| 20:31.10 | Deaod | meh. |
| 20:31.15 | Mexa | vJass is a subset of Jass |
| 20:31.31 | Mexa | But yeah, I wont be nitpicky, so nvm. |
| 20:31.52 | Deaod | you could do anything in JASS, you could do in vJass |
| 20:32.13 | Deaod | vJass just had a nifty thing called a compiler, that generated much of low-level code |
| 20:32.49 | Deaod | the final code was much longer, but it was as fast as was possible (well, almost) |
| 20:33.01 | Deaod | however, if you had to write it manuall, youd cut corners |
| 20:33.24 | Deaod | to get to what your desired result faster |
| 20:33.37 | Deaod | those corners are repetitive low-level code |
| 20:33.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@f055053058.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:34.09 | Deaod | what happens is that your code wont actually be as fast as can be |
| 20:34.24 | Deaod | because youd have to write a shitton of repetitive code |
| 20:34.30 | Deaod | and its mindnumbing to do that |
| 20:35.11 | Mexa | Mmm, I'm not questioning vJass and Jass |
| 20:35.18 | *** join/#sc2mapster Twiner (~Twiner@c-75-68-114-20.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.53 | Mexa | You could probably say that galaxy++ for galaxy is what vJass is for Jass |
| 20:36.00 | Mexa | if not now, soon. |
| 20:36.11 | Mexa | *too |
| 20:38.53 | *** join/#sc2mapster cintiq_ (~cintiq@182-239-176-29.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 20:43.05 | Stewox | it's logical |
| 20:43.26 | Stewox | getting rid of the need for interpreters makes performance better , cannot be simpler |
| 20:44.33 | Stewox | the fact why scripting is made is easy: it's easier to tweak for almost anyone in the company , the company doesn't need that much of expensive programmer force to make balancing and simple stuff such as in a SC2 game when balance is constantly being patched and changed |
| 20:44.43 | Stewox | it's a tradeoff |
| 20:46.03 | Stewox | a game director or some whatever inexperience guy in the company can just fix or do many stuff when the game is complete ... they don't use full programmer force for SC2 patches , they can use that programmer time for other projects |
| 20:46.44 | Stewox | that translates to better work efficiency , lower costs , and ofcourse faster development |
| 20:47.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Shadowwolf (4b7553ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.117.83.174) |
| 20:47.28 | Shadowwolf | Okay, Time to begin bugging people with my terrible SKillz :P, |
| 20:51.14 | b2zeldafreak | so the zerg rush is still a legit startegy in SC2? |
| 20:51.48 | Shadowwolf | Okay i want to make it so that when I place my start location it will start my buildings EXACTLY were I put it how owuld i go about doing this, keep in mind im very new to galaxy editor |
| 20:52.06 | Shadowwolf | 6 pools is an okay stratagy for ronze-gold |
| 20:54.19 | Stewox | can't wait to see HOTS turnaments |
| 20:54.31 | Stewox | ultralisk usable |
| 20:54.48 | Stewox | Viper is fucking epic design , so great! |
| 20:54.51 | Shadowwolf | lol |
| 20:55.04 | Stewox | nestea gonna be pleased |
| 20:55.07 | Shadowwolf | I already know the Swarmling thing is Over Powered |
| 20:55.12 | Shadowwolf | I dont care what anyone says lol |
| 20:55.15 | Kueken | also we will get a data way to pull units across cliffs smoothly :D |
| 20:55.19 | Shadowwolf | its going to be the new cheese |
| 20:55.25 | Stewox | swarmling thing ? |
| 20:55.29 | Kueken | I hope for dynamic mover change;) |
| 20:55.38 | Shadowwolf | damn unit that spawns other units |
| 20:55.41 | Shadowwolf | while burrowed] |
| 20:55.45 | Stewox | dynamic mover change ? |
| 20:55.55 | Shadowwolf | its a damn underground carrier |
| 20:56.05 | Stewox | well ... physics engine was rewritten from scratch |
| 20:56.08 | Kueken | as in make a ground unit make an air unit without the need to morph |
| 20:56.45 | Kueken | physics appear to be 100% death animation eyecandy still... |
| 20:56.45 | Shadowwolf | anyone know how to remove the must build on creep form zerg? |
| 20:57.24 | Kueken | should be handled by validators in the build abilities |
| 20:57.43 | Kueken | so remove the validator and you are set |
| 20:57.45 | Kueken | I think |
| 20:58.39 | *** join/#sc2mapster ________________ (630a7b35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.10.123.53) |
| 21:13.23 | *** join/#sc2mapster pirate (1834f442@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.244.66) |
| 21:13.49 | Shadowwolf | dammit, anyone know how to make larva spawn off creep? |
| 21:18.26 | Stewox | off creep ' |
| 21:18.38 | Stewox | off creep ? |
| 21:19.01 | Stewox | larva get killed when they get off creep , fix that firts |
| 21:19.15 | Stewox | that's a setting in larva prolly |
| 21:19.24 | Stewox | search around that |
| 21:19.31 | Shadowwolf | I fixed that. |
| 21:19.41 | Stewox | what's wrong then |
| 21:19.43 | Shadowwolf | I got the Card to come back up, but their still not spawning |
| 21:19.54 | A1win | did you check the spawn larva behavior |
| 21:20.00 | Shadowwolf | yeah |
| 21:23.27 | Shadowwolf | i have to remove creep from the game, because the map is really small, and a zerg player with creep would ruin the gameplay |
| 21:24.06 | *** join/#sc2mapster Durrean (~DurRean@dyndsl-095-033-097-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:24.22 | pirate | where does one find bnet assets, such as the SC2 WOL logo at the op of the bnet screen? |
| 21:27.09 | Shadowwolf | Hidden in your SC2 folder, OR you can just download the fansite kit |
| 21:27.11 | *** join/#sc2mapster Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:27.15 | b2zeldafreak | how do i make a building get air dropped like the supply depots? |
| 21:27.49 | Shadowwolf | sorry b2zeldafreak, you will need someone to create animations for that. |
| 21:28.19 | b2zeldafreak | can i make a supply depot do that? |
| 21:28.19 | ________________ | ya its a morph with a special animation if I'm imagining it right |
| 21:28.25 | Shadowwolf | yeah |
| 21:28.43 | Shadowwolf | its in the campaign, so its in the editor too |
| 21:28.46 | Shadowwolf | just gotta find it |
| 21:28.53 | b2zeldafreak | i see |
| 21:30.51 | Shadowwolf | Then again, im new to the editor so, Im just guessing from all the answers I've heard. |
| 21:34.31 | Vailreth | Zelda do you want your structure to be just air dropped like supply depot or would you like to call down a self constructing structure? |
| 21:35.14 | b2zeldafreak | not sure vailreth |
| 21:35.19 | b2zeldafreak | is one easier than the other? |
| 21:35.55 | Vailreth | yes much |
| 21:36.03 | b2zeldafreak | the first one is easier? |
| 21:36.10 | Vailreth | yes |
| 21:36.16 | b2zeldafreak | i'll stick with that then |
| 21:36.22 | b2zeldafreak | only one unit is getting air dropped so |
| 21:37.43 | b2zeldafreak | can i drop something other than a supply depot? |
| 21:37.55 | Vailreth | yes |
| 21:38.03 | ________________ | You can drop w/e unit u want |
| 21:38.11 | ________________ | but that air coming down thing is a solid animation |
| 21:38.34 | ________________ | just have a unit spawned once the animation is done |
| 21:38.35 | Vailreth | yeah that would have to be scaled to fit what ever you were dropping |
| 21:38.40 | b2zeldafreak | k. i'm trying to decide between using a supply depot and a villager hut for the model |
| 21:39.13 | Vailreth | i was wondering how those things got around. lol |
| 21:39.30 | JademusSreg | Doesn't look good scaled up, I can assure you. |
| 21:39.47 | b2zeldafreak | i guess i can make the starting unit the supply depot and have it upgrade to the hut |
| 21:39.53 | JademusSreg | Neither the drop pods nore the supply drop crates. |
| 21:40.23 | Vailreth | what is the issue with scalling them? |
| 21:40.45 | JademusSreg | They look ugly. |
| 21:40.48 | JademusSreg | Haha |
| 21:40.52 | Vailreth | they just get ugly ah |
| 21:41.22 | JademusSreg | In the case of orbital drop pods, the debris is oversized and ridiculous. |
| 21:42.10 | Vailreth | well my drop and build and build method would work for looks then |
| 21:42.14 | Shadowwolf | Okay, I have a problem, How do i get larvae to spawn without creep? |
| 21:43.08 | Shadowwolf | im stuck.. LOL |
| 21:44.35 | ________________ | the larvae probly have a behavior on em or something |
| 21:44.37 | ________________ | delete it |
| 21:44.53 | Shadowwolf | I have to Get those Larvae to spawn off creep, Stop Terren buildings from flying, Make it so when I place a starting location it will ignore placement requirements, and finnaly I have to change it so By default all players are started with 1 town center and 1 worker |
| 21:44.54 | Shadowwolf | LOL |
| 21:46.16 | Shadowwolf | anyone ever played one of the chop chop maps from Warcraft 2? Im re-creating it, and making a few changes(besides races), I now have 2 xel naga towers in the middle. Everything outside the land is a no-fly zone |
| 21:47.00 | Shadowwolf | and a few others, but I got to stop all creep, and stop terran from flying |
| 21:47.07 | Vailreth | see if changing their mover from creep to something else works |
| 21:47.27 | ________________ | the flying thing is a morph |
| 21:47.30 | ________________ | just delete the morph |
| 21:47.54 | Vailreth | the larva i mean |
| 21:49.38 | Shadowwolf | Larva's Mover is a behavior I removed that |
| 21:50.00 | Vailreth | no |
| 21:50.03 | Vailreth | thats wander |
| 21:50.05 | Shadowwolf | ALSO i got to make that Mineral field depleted douche to stfu |
| 21:50.11 | Shadowwolf | LOL |
| 21:50.20 | Shadowwolf | over 200 mineral fields... im tired of hearing his voice |
| 21:51.43 | Shadowwolf | brb imma try somthing |
| 21:55.00 | Shadowwolf | OK this is what I tested, I used the spawn larva ability from the queen, It didnt spawn them. |
| 21:55.09 | Shadowwolf | Anyone have any idea what might be causing this? |
| 21:55.10 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mograth (~name@176.198.37.24) |
| 21:55.31 | Vailreth | change the mover so its not set to creep |
| 21:55.58 | Vailreth | every unit has a mover fielid that assigns to it the driver that lets it move |
| 21:56.33 | Shadowwolf | under the movers tab right? |
| 21:57.08 | Vailreth | yes but you dont change those you want to change the mover field on the larva unit |
| 21:59.38 | Aelia | http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2011/october/ss3.jpg |
| 22:00.35 | *** mode/#sc2mapster [+v Hati] by ChanServ |
| 22:01.28 | Shadowwolf | ok under the Unit larva I found a part that says mover, and under that it says creep, How do i change that? |
| 22:02.35 | Vailreth | double click where its says creep and change it to ground |
| 22:02.53 | Vailreth | this is not a guarented fix but i think its the issue |
| 22:03.41 | Vailreth | if there is more than one larva unit you may have to test them to see which one is editable |
| 22:04.31 | Shadowwolf | under the ID field it still says creep, I ran a test and nothing changed |
| 22:05.48 | Vailreth | you changed it to ground? |
| 22:06.07 | Shadowwolf | i clicked copy from, and on the deio menu I selected ground and hit okay |
| 22:06.21 | Shadowwolf | and on the drop down menu |
| 22:06.27 | Shadowwolf | i dont know how it came out Deio |
| 22:06.41 | Vailreth | i told you not to change the movers |
| 22:07.22 | Shadowwolf | ok i get reverse |
| 22:09.08 | *** join/#sc2mapster Nash|327 (~nn@81-234-225-23-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:10.13 | Shadowwolf | Well zerg is ready, everyhting but those damn larva |
| 22:10.36 | Shadowwolf | I need to take a break from them, and go to somthing else so I can relax |
| 22:11.02 | Vailreth | sorry if i seem a bit like an ass or so im not feeling very well, and the dam game is using a cached version of the depedncie i am testing sooo my edits are not even recognized |
| 22:12.11 | Shadowwolf | nah actually your helpful |
| 22:12.31 | Shadowwolf | I just try not to stay on one problem for too long, Otherwise I get annoyed |
| 22:12.40 | Shadowwolf | Ill come back to it later |
| 22:15.32 | Shadowwolf | http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x171/11shadowwolf/Chopchop.png |
| 22:15.37 | Shadowwolf | THats what the map looks like right now |
| 22:15.38 | Shadowwolf | LOL |
| 22:21.37 | Shadowwolf | There terran Is Complete. And I gave the Missle Turret a Land attack so it can be a little useful. Now I gotta finish zerg Dammit lol |
| 22:30.32 | Shadowwolf | dammit still cant get it. They just refuse to spawn no matter what. |
| 22:31.08 | Shadowwolf | ? |
| 22:31.16 | Shadowwolf | Why di it do that? |
| 22:39.25 | A1win | :O new power grid appears to be functional, now it actually knows which units are in the same grid unlike the old one =P |
| 22:39.45 | Shadowwolf | hmmm |
| 22:39.54 | Shadowwolf | DAMMIT WHATS WITH THESE DAMN LARVA!! |
| 22:39.55 | Shadowwolf | lol |
| 22:40.51 | Shadowwolf | if they would just spawn, i would be soo happy... but they refuse... |
| 22:45.00 | Shadowwolf | AWESOME |
| 22:45.02 | Shadowwolf | http://us.media.blizzard.com/blizzcon/media/wallpapers//blizzcon-2011/blizzcon-2011-large.jpg |
| 22:57.27 | *** join/#sc2mapster Twiner (~Twiner@c-75-68-114-20.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 23:00.53 | Shadowwolf | Ok i found what you were talking about earlier on the movers, it did nothing, but it said it does prevent it. So theres another problem... |
| 23:00.53 | Shadowwolf | LOL |
| 23:11.16 | JademusSreg | I return. |
| 23:14.04 | Vailreth | this is making me angry |
| 23:14.41 | JademusSreg | ? |
| 23:15.08 | Vailreth | i moved my ability from a unit to a structure and have it the validator on creep |
| 23:15.14 | Vailreth | now it cant be used at all |
| 23:23.17 | *** join/#sc2mapster Daara (62a8c8e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.168.200.226) |
| 23:24.45 | *** part/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 23:25.35 | Daara | vailreth |
| 23:25.37 | Daara | you there? |
| 23:25.50 | Vailreth | yes im here |
| 23:26.04 | Daara | you're good with spells so i figured i ask you |
| 23:26.30 | Daara | I'm trying to get my mage to do 2 animations before actually shooting a missile. |
| 23:26.39 | Daara | The Opening will be Spell. |
| 23:26.51 | Daara | And the Closing will be Spell A. |
| 23:27.15 | Daara | This will just be there regular attack for the mage too. |
| 23:27.48 | Vailreth | delay the Missile launch with a persistent effect that causes the initial animation? |
| 23:27.54 | Daara | that's what I did |
| 23:27.56 | Daara | but.... |
| 23:28.02 | Daara | it won't actually launch the missile |
| 23:28.15 | A1win | ooh yeah, power consumption works |
| 23:28.33 | Vailreth | it will you just need to play with the setup |
| 23:28.51 | Daara | i'm using the hydralisk missile as a base atm |
| 23:29.02 | Daara | but i changed the weapon effect to the "missile delay" effect |
| 23:29.21 | Daara | and the initial effect on the "missile delay" is the launch missile |
| 23:29.28 | Daara | with the initial delay being 0.5 |
| 23:29.31 | Vailreth | oh its a weapon? |
| 23:29.33 | Daara | yea |
| 23:29.42 | Daara | not a spell |
| 23:29.46 | Daara | it's just her normal attack |
| 23:29.49 | Daara | with the weapon |
| 23:30.03 | Vailreth | thats a whole diffrent can of worms |
| 23:30.14 | Vailreth | but it should be similar |
| 23:30.36 | Vailreth | let me try a quick test |
| 23:31.27 | Vailreth | firstly is your presistent set to be able to target a unit |
| 23:31.54 | Daara | one sec while i load my map |
| 23:32.36 | Daara | I basically want all my casters to look like they are actually casting spells and then firing them off for their basic attacks. |
| 23:34.05 | *** join/#sc2mapster Mexa (~Mexa.EU@80.78.216.84) |
| 23:34.48 | Daara | Target location was on Source Point |
| 23:36.10 | Daara | and...that's all she wrote |
| 23:36.12 | Daara | that fixed it |
| 23:36.16 | Daara | didn't even notice that |
| 23:36.18 | Vailreth | nod |
| 23:36.28 | Daara | thx :D |
| 23:36.34 | Vailreth | no problem |
| 23:36.36 | Daara | now i just need to add the glowing hands |
| 23:37.07 | Daara | i guess cutting down the length of the precast sound too |
| 23:37.24 | Daara | its like 5 seconds...and yea I don't want a 5 second precast for each attack |
| 23:39.02 | *** join/#sc2mapster Thels (GameBot@ip3e83cdbc.speed.planet.nl) |
| 23:39.06 | Mexa | hi |
| 23:43.50 | *** join/#sc2mapster b2zeldafreak (~b2zeldafr@208.102.122.128) |
| 23:47.46 | Vailreth | hello Mexa |
| 23:50.39 | Daara | So, we still can't import particles into sc2? |
| 23:53.25 | Vailreth | never tried |
| 23:54.21 | Daara | doesn't look like they even got exported with the model |
| 23:54.59 | Vailreth | did you explort the model your self? |
| 23:55.37 | Daara | yea |
