IRC log for #sc2mapster on 20110314

00:00.04JademusSregI have no friends. Well, I do, but none that are relevant to this context.
00:01.03Shawn|RawrLol. Make a video, get newsed, and then watch them beg to play like everyone else
00:01.10JademusSregLet me know when you get some testers.
00:01.20JademusSregI think Bounty wants a big reveal.
00:01.26Bountyyeah
00:01.28Shawn|RawrOH.
00:01.31Bountyi dont wanna hype it until its out
00:01.42JademusSregLike Steve Job-sian revelation.
00:01.44Bountywhich COULD be today
00:01.48Bountyif i could get some damn testers
00:01.54JademusSregJobs-ian?
00:02.00Bountyim not working on it anymore until we test a full game
00:02.05JademusSregJobsesque
00:02.06Bountyno point
00:02.26*** join/#sc2mapster Khalanil (636e012a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.110.1.42)
00:02.45Shawn|RawrJobsish
00:03.08Shawn|RawrJobs-like
00:04.32Bountythis is gay lol
00:04.39BountyI WANNA FCKING FINISH THIS MAP TODAY
00:04.40Bounty><
00:04.49Shawn|RawrWhat constitutes a "full game"?
00:06.32A1winhmm actually what I haven't thought for the map yet is the large-scale gameplay... like how do the players progress in the game other than get more powerful mechs :P
00:07.15Queen_WINNINGK i published the map: WINNING
00:07.38Shawn|RawrBig picture of Charlie Sheen as the loading screen?
00:09.27Queen_WINNING=)
00:11.51SkittlesLol wut is that?
00:12.38onetwo_WINNINGlol
00:12.42onetwo_WINNINGi was considering making that my icon
00:12.43onetwo_WINNINGon my map
00:12.46onetwo_WINNINGsince its popular
00:12.49onetwo_WINNINGi can mess with people now
00:13.06onetwo_WINNINGmake icon charlie sheen
00:13.09onetwo_WINNINGhave a charlie sheen hero
00:13.57*** join/#sc2mapster Motive (~motive@c-68-36-169-50.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
00:17.18DemoSo one two after beating it, I was disserpointed
00:17.28Demothought it was going to take us to a new area
00:17.56onetwo_WINNINGno i suck
00:18.23Demobeat it with having 2 as their first game and 1 person that died
00:18.31onetwo_WINNINGyour kills?
00:18.34*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
00:18.37Demomine? 1000
00:18.40onetwo_WINNINGweird
00:18.42onetwo_WINNINGtoo easy?
00:18.52Demoyes too easy we 4 manned it with no one past major
00:18.55onetwo_WINNINGits really hard to balance
00:18.58Demoand 2 people not even close
00:18.58onetwo_WINNINGcause i get diff stories
00:19.02onetwo_WINNINGand i dont have stats like blizz
00:19.05Demowell I'm on vent with the 3
00:19.08Demoso that might help
00:19.11onetwo_WINNINGoh
00:19.18onetwo_WINNINGmost balancing comes from pubes
00:19.22onetwo_WINNINGno mistake on spelling
00:19.25Demobut maybe a difficulty?
00:19.31Demosetting
00:19.35onetwo_WINNINGmeh its already dynamic
00:19.42onetwo_WINNINGyou might actually have a harder time
00:19.45onetwo_WINNINGwith 8k+ kills
00:19.46onetwo_WINNINGpeople
00:19.53MrOpsup twonezero
00:19.56onetwo_WINNINGsup
00:20.01MrOp-negone
00:20.04MrOpXD
00:20.07onetwo_WINNINGaverage rank of 8 = 0% enemy bonus
00:20.13onetwo_WINNINGaverage rank of 1 = 52% enemy bonus
00:20.24onetwo_WINNINGto hp and dmg
00:20.28onetwo_WINNINGand scaled in between
00:31.50TobinBi-WinningHmm, i edited & deleted default random help tips in Game UI but it still doesn't display my random tips.
00:31.55TobinBi-WinningAnyone know why?
00:33.11onetwo_WINNINGcant get rid of them
00:33.13onetwo_WINNINGi found
00:33.15onetwo_WINNINGonly if you make your own
00:33.19onetwo_WINNINGin Map->Map loading screen
00:33.21onetwo_WINNINGHelp field
00:33.48Tobin-and they can be random?
00:35.37onetwo_WINNINGneg
00:35.39onetwo_WINNINGsadly
00:35.52Tobin-lameness
00:36.54Tobin-Ehh no tips then i guess.
00:37.28Queen_WINNINGonetwo
00:37.32Queen_WINNINGwanna test my winning map?
00:37.55Queen_WINNING"Few women admit their age.  Few men act theirs." i like this
00:38.05Queen_WINNINGer i mean this is true but i wish it wasn't so
00:38.06Tobin-Game Initialization -> End game in victory for player x
00:38.47*** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@f051176065.adsl.alicedsl.de)
00:44.45*** join/#sc2mapster TeddyTeddy (~Teddy@adsl-75-26-206-129.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net)
00:44.45*** join/#sc2mapster grim001 (~chatzilla@c-69-246-170-145.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
00:45.13grim001...
00:51.32*** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (442d304d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.45.48.77)
00:52.25onetwo_WINNINGlol im going out soon :/
00:52.29onetwo_WINNINGqueen you made a winning map?
00:56.32Queen_WINNINGyes
00:59.07JademusSregYes grim?
01:04.27*** join/#sc2mapster m4ng3 (m4ng3@213-65-109-6-no158.tbcn.telia.com)
01:16.03*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
01:18.18grim001i can feel it, the topsort is almost working this time.
01:27.20grim001woo! it just completed the first successful topsort.
01:27.33grim001now to make it happen in a real script.
01:29.26*** join/#sc2mapster CryptRat (440a127b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.10.18.123)
01:29.44grim001yep, it works.
01:30.17Queen_WINNINGwho wants to test my winning map! lol
01:33.08MrOpi will
01:33.54MrOpqueen do you need me to log in now
01:34.09BountyAnyone want to help test my new racing map, so i can finish and launch it
01:34.25MrOpi can bounty
01:34.34BountyPM me @Bounty.820
01:34.44MrOpjust goto are channel
01:34.50MrOp:)
01:34.56Bountyim in it >< dont see u
01:35.07MrOploging in brt
01:37.28BountyJademussreg u want in?
01:48.27grim001Wow, it managed to correctly sort the tangled web of requirements for my existing 12 scripts.
01:56.24*** join/#sc2mapster Cintiq (~cintiq@219-90-178-46.ip.adam.com.au)
01:59.59grim001Tested by compiling all of my scripts and running them in a map. So far so good.
02:00.20grim001Deletes all the comments and whitespace, too. Takes about 1.4 to 2 seconds to compile
02:00.24MotiveNice. :)
02:01.15grim001Other features will be much easier and faster
02:01.22grim001that was probably the hardest one.
02:03.28Motive:)
02:04.59Queen_WINNINGhttp://imgur.com/8W6Bj
02:05.29MrOpqueen did you still need more people for test
02:11.13Skittleslol
02:11.22MrOpsup skikkles
02:11.23SkittlesQueen what's that map about anyway? Other than winning.
02:11.25Skittlesnm u
02:11.43MrOpnm either
02:13.20MrOpjust combining all my triggers
02:13.25MrOpbasicly had to refo everyhing
02:13.25Queen_WINNINGwhat u mean? there is nothing but WINNING
02:13.27MrOpthing
02:13.40MrOpredo*
02:13.40Queen_WINNINGeverything else is irrelevant
02:14.34Skittleslol
02:14.42Skittlesdo u start the game and then get a winning message?
02:23.18*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
02:43.30CryptRat:/ I can't decide how best to make the combat system for my map.
02:43.36*** join/#sc2mapster Queen_WINNING (43ab2844@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.40.68)
02:44.37CryptRatLike so objective A: How would you go about making two zerglings kill each other simultaneously?
02:45.21CryptRatThe only way I can think of doing that is making the attack a hidden, time-delayed projectile.
02:46.16CryptRator I guess I could make an ability that kills the user and the target?
02:46.52*** join/#sc2mapster Queen_WINNING (43ab2844@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.40.68)
02:47.18MrOpif you make an ability that kills the user you arent going to have very many players and i think you might get in trouble after a while
02:47.26MrOpXD
02:47.43CryptRatWell it's only a 2-player game
02:47.53CryptRatand you won't have maybe more than five units at any given time
02:48.02MrOplol you didnt get my joke
02:48.04MrOpXD
02:48.07CryptRatok
02:48.17MrOpkill the player
02:48.23MrOpXD
02:49.22CryptRatRegardless, if I raid on you with my zergling and you intercept it with your zergling, I want both of them to die. >_>
02:51.33CryptRatIs there any way to unbind right-click from Attack?
02:55.13Shawn|RawrThere is a way to remove right click entirely
02:55.23Shawn|RawrI don't know about what you said
02:57.54Abstrusehe's talking about killing people :P
02:58.36MrOpyea idk if i can help people make maps that kills there players
02:58.43MrOpjust bad for business
02:58.45MrOpXD
02:58.47MrOphi leb
03:00.11*** join/#sc2mapster progammer (4a3ea6d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.62.166.210)
03:00.11*** mode/#sc2mapster [+v progammer] by ChanServ
03:01.03progammerScreenshot Comic Contest Vote now http://www.sc2mapster.com/
03:16.19*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
03:27.29JademusSregWhat did I miss?
03:27.48MrOpsome guy wanted to make a map that kills his players
03:27.50MrOp:/
03:28.19MrOpi suggested it was not a good idea to kill your players
03:28.30MrOpprobably get in trouble IMO
03:28.32MrOpXD
03:28.56JademusSregHaha. Classic misunderstanding. Well done.
03:29.25MrOpoh that an people are still making fun of that sheen guy
03:29.34MrOpor was it
03:29.36MrOp@~@
03:29.51JademusSregThey are making fun -with- Charlie Sheen.
03:31.10Shawn|Rawrjeezus.. rodrigo made 5 entries into the contest
03:31.18Shawn|Rawrand im not voting for any of them
03:31.41Bountywhat contest
03:33.13JademusSregRodrigo's entries remind me of CtrlAltDel. OneTwo's first entry is, obviously, win.
03:33.20JademusSregRather, winning.
03:34.01Bountylol@ onetwos submission
03:34.03Bountyhe will win
03:34.12Bountyjust bc everyone hates Rodrigo
03:34.37JademusSregTo be fair, Rodrigo brings it upon himself.
03:34.45Shawn|RawrI didnt vote for it because I hate rodrigo
03:34.59Tobin-Rodrigo did make a post, seems he was a good sport about it.
03:35.07Tobin-or pretending to be anyways. .;
03:35.32Shawn|Rawri really dont see how thats making fun of him
03:35.42Shawn|Rawrif anything, its advertising debates
03:35.55Skittlesprogammer
03:36.07SkittlesThe poll is screwy on comic vote #2
03:36.11SkittlesAdds up to 200%
03:36.24Shawn|Rawrdoes that on both
03:36.30Skittlesoh?
03:36.47Shawn|Rawrpretty sure there will be 2 winners from each
03:36.59Skittleslol, I almost didn't vote for onetwo cause I thought rodrigo submitted it :p
03:37.07JademusSregOneTwo's the only one I found remotely amusing.
03:37.19MrOpyea
03:37.21MrOplol
03:37.21JademusSregAnd that was only smirk-worthy.
03:37.26Skittleshaha'
03:37.31Skittleshad a few other ones I liked
03:37.35SkittlesSuch as the breeding one
03:37.38Bountylike 50% of Rodrigos submission involve the Taliban/9-11
03:37.40Bountylol
03:37.41MrOpbut at least it made us smirk
03:37.48MrOp:/
03:37.58SkittlesYeah, that was kinda neat, but to disrespectful imo.
03:38.02JademusSregRodrigo's first one was in really poor taste.
03:38.10Shawn|Rawri guess onetwo's isnt my kind of humor
03:38.19Shawn|Rawrcuz i dont get it
03:38.21Shawn|Rawr>.>
03:38.27Skittles<PROTECTED>
03:38.30Skittleswas kinda funny too
03:38.32MrOpwow
03:38.33MrOplol
03:38.39Skittlesjust cuz I could c it being a saying. Xd
03:39.21Bountyi really dont get the one by peeeq
03:39.24Bountyat all
03:39.46JademusSregThose Terrans are sooo coool for liking Debates, guys, obviously.
03:40.07SkittlesHe shoulda ended it with a ghost nuking everything
03:40.10JademusSregI mean, come on, that one terran even says so.
03:40.17Skittlesor some reapers apearing and killing the two marines
03:40.49Skittlesor maybe have the zergling as a baneling
03:40.54Skittlesand he runs towards them suicidal
03:40.57JademusSregMy favorite was the first one, in the first post, the mothership and the arbiter.
03:41.00Skittlesthen they are talking about debates
03:41.05Skittlesstops and like hey guys i like that too
03:41.13Skittlesand they are all like oh my gosh bang bang
03:41.32JademusSregThough it reads oddly; right to left? What is this, manga?
03:41.40BountyI find it hillarious Rodrigo has been reduced to making standard king of the hill/spectate maps
03:42.12Skittlesmothership and the arbiter?
03:42.24JademusSregprogrammer's post.
03:42.36Skittleshmm
03:42.37Bountybtw jade, i dont forsee this racing map ever being completed lol
03:42.44Bountywe will never find enough ppl
03:43.03JademusSregYou're being ridiculous.
03:43.10BountyAM I?
03:43.12JademusSregYes.
03:43.28Bountynobody likes it either apparently
03:43.31Bountyitsj ut me and u
03:43.37Bountyeveryone that has tested it today has complained lol
03:43.44JademusSregCriticised.
03:43.47Skittlesoh yeah thats okay i guess
03:43.49Bountysteering isnt responsive enough
03:43.51Bountyetc
03:43.58Bountythen i ask what framerate they have and its like 20
03:44.10Bountyi tell them to turn down their settings and they say framerate doesnt affect delay
03:44.10Skittleslet me play =D
03:44.12Bountywhich it does
03:44.26Bountyok but its pretty imba atm
03:44.28Bounty:)
03:44.36Bountyin that its really hard
03:44.37Skittlesmk
03:44.54JademusSregMy framerate is smooth because my computer isn't a box full of rocks and dung. My previous computer was literally a box of rocks and dung, but the lichen and insects were Turing complete, interestingly enough.
03:45.33Bountyit doesnt make any sense to me
03:45.39Bountythe fucking draw distance is 75!
03:45.40Bountylol
03:45.45JademusSregComputer nerd humor.
03:45.48Skittlesok on
03:45.53Bountydoodad hunt has a draw distance of 10,000
03:45.56Bountyand nobody had any issues
03:46.18Skittleslies
03:46.21Skittlesthey had no standards
03:46.51JademusSregAnyway, either you work on and publish the map or you don't. Either people like it or they don't, and if you don't release it, no one will give a shit.
03:47.11Bountyi cant finish it if i dont test with full games
03:47.28JademusSregWrong. You choose not to do so.
03:47.44JademusSregYou could finish what needs to be done, release it, and improve it incrementally.
03:48.03JademusSregI think it's pretty fun, it has potential.
03:48.14JademusSregIt has potential to inspire others to emulate it.
03:49.14JademusSregI mean, when I play, in addition to spending more time driving around the track than I intend, I also think about how I would do it, how I would improve it and alter it to my vision.
03:49.23CryptRatDoes making an alternate Attack ability break anything?
03:49.28JademusSregCrypt, no.
03:49.37JademusSregThis isn't SC1. =D
03:49.42CryptRatWell I mean, a unit would have 3 attack abilities
03:50.00JademusSregThat's cool. I didn't say anything about implementation.
03:50.09CryptRatx_x
03:50.13JademusSregBut just making the abilities by itself doesn't break anything.
03:50.23CryptRatWould a unit have 3 attack abilities break anything then? :p
03:50.58JademusSregDunno. Tinker, test, repeat.
03:51.30JademusSregI don't know why you would want the Attack abilities, though.
03:51.56JademusSregBounty, the map has potential, it's fun, but it's irrational to expect anyone to care.
03:52.16JademusSregIt has to prove itself, in the wild. =)
03:53.11JademusSregIt will either attract players on the basis of its merit or it will not. It's your choice to give it that chance.
03:56.14JademusSregHm.
03:56.26JademusSregThat comic caption whatever intrigues me.
03:59.05JademusSregprogrammer, how graphic can the comics be?
03:59.18JManVits funny how bounty continues to try and push the boundries of the editor, and then gets disappointed when it doesn't work well
03:59.43JademusSregLike if I were leaning toward the stylings of Kevin Smith or Judd Apatow, would that be acceptable?
03:59.47Bountyit does work well JMan
03:59.53Bountythats not the problem
03:59.59Bountyi just like knowing how my map performs before i launch it
04:00.14JManVeither push the boundries and expect that somethings won't work, or stay within the boundries if you want consistant output
04:00.23JManVyou were complaining about the delay and such
04:00.24Bountywhat r u talking about lol
04:00.26Bountyno
04:00.31Bountyi was saying ppl were
04:00.35Bountythen they said they had 20 fps
04:00.38Bountyand i told them thats why
04:00.42JManVyou were complaining about others complaining about it
04:00.44Bountyand they bitched at me and said NO
04:00.53Bountypretty much
04:01.05Bountybc its not the map or bnet, its the framerate some ppl get
04:01.13Bountywhich im trying to fix but i alrdy have the drar distance at 75
04:01.27Shawn|Rawrlet the people set it themselves?
04:01.39Bountythats what im gonna have to do
04:01.49JManVwhen you push the boundries, some things won't work well
04:01.59Bountyit works fine JMan
04:02.03Bountyget on topic!
04:02.03Bountylol
04:02.09JManVobviously
04:02.10JademusSregI liked the Baneling comic by ZealNaga, too.
04:02.28JManVit it worked fine, we wouldn't be having this discussion
04:02.42Bountylol w/e, i just told u what the discussion was
04:02.43JademusSregI probably would have liked Abion's if the format weren't so abominable.
04:02.45Bountyits not about that
04:03.11JManVi don't get that one
04:03.12JManVat all
04:03.31JademusSregHumans breeding at the Barracks.
04:03.36JademusSregTo make more Marines.
04:03.54JademusSregThose are female civilian units.
04:03.58JManVah ok
04:04.03JManVi guess it's just not that funny
04:04.14JManVi didn't find many of them very funny, really
04:04.27JademusSregI concur.
04:05.02JManVthe baneling one was cute tho
04:05.15JManVand using sarah kerrigan as a verb is kinda funny
04:05.17JademusSregYah.
04:05.28JademusSregExcept the comic isn't very funny.
04:05.54JademusSregIt could have been done in one frame. =(
04:06.06JManVyeah
04:06.10JManVi voted for banelings
04:06.39JademusSregThe Leeroy Jenkins Zealot has one funny line.
04:06.52JademusSreg"Bzeek booorg krrrnm"
04:09.31JManVyeah that one made no sense to me at all
04:09.50JademusSregWoW reference, make it double
04:10.13JManVah
04:10.21JManVWoW is the debil
04:10.30JademusSregZealot acts like Leeroy Jenkins, gets killed, comes back as an Immortal, which is like a Dragoon from SC1, and does it again.
04:10.31JManVi'll never play it
04:12.57JademusSregA brash fool in a raid with a group over overplanning fools.
04:13.16JademusSregMost people miss the latter aspect of the video.
04:13.17JManVyeah i wiki'd
04:13.32JademusSregThough it should be apparent at the start.
04:13.36Shawn|Rawrthat vid is funny as hell
04:14.04Motive_WINNERI'M WINNING
04:14.06JademusSregAnyway, back to my terrain.
04:14.06Motive_WINNERBAHHAAHAAHAHAH
04:14.11JademusSregWinning what?
04:14.19Motive_WINNEREverything.
04:14.24JademusSregAh.
04:15.31JManVhow's the engine?
04:16.14JademusSregPretty good. Still got a few kinks, though. =(
04:16.23*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
04:16.45JademusSregMainly, I haven't figured out why it doesn't shoot in some places.
04:17.14JManVok, i didn't think that was very funny
04:17.18JManVi guess it's an inside thing
04:17.34JManVhmmm
04:17.39JManVsome places?
04:17.50JManVinconsistant bugs = yukzilla
04:18.17JManVi assume you haven't figured out how to consistantly reproduce it?
04:18.28JManVotherwise it prolly wouldn't be a bug anymore :P
04:18.31JademusSregKinda, yeah.
04:19.34JademusSregI'm sure with more thorough testing, I'll find it eventually.
04:20.28JManVso i'm trying to think of creative ways to balance 4 players against 1 invisible player
04:20.35JademusSregTraps.
04:20.44JManVobv, in a shooter, you can shoot the invis player anyways
04:21.00JManVi was thinking of him making a sound when he comes in range too
04:21.13JademusSregSure. A suspenseful key up.
04:21.34JademusSregSubtle at first, growing increasingly more tense?
04:21.37JademusSregOr loud?
04:21.48JManVnot exactly
04:21.51JademusSregPossibly a slight screen border effect, too?
04:21.53JManVjust a cue that he's in range
04:21.56JademusSregFor the hearing impaired?
04:22.04JManVthink predator
04:22.14JManVknow that sound he makes when he's hunting?
04:22.22JademusSregYup. I make the same sound.
04:22.26JManVheh
04:22.37JManVanyways, i wanna keep the marines really on their toes
04:22.49JManVif it's not terrifying being a marine, i haven't succeeded
04:23.00JManVbut they also need to actually be capable of killing the predator
04:23.28JManValso those sensor things from aliens could work
04:23.42JManVthose had a very tense feel to them
04:24.19JademusSregDamn you, csrss! Eating 216K of memory!
04:24.40JademusSregElaborate on sensor things?
04:24.50JManVi think they were arm units
04:25.09JManVlike what you were saying, noise gets more intense as the unit gets closer
04:25.24JademusSregAh.
04:25.37JademusSregWouldn't even be difficult to pull off actually.
04:25.41JManVlike in aliens, when they realized the aliens were actually above them
04:25.45JademusSregCould even be done with data.
04:25.53JManVthe sensor was going nuts, and they couldn't see them
04:25.56JManVvery tense
04:26.25JademusSregYes. Gary Busey got schooled.
04:26.50JManVim thinking the predator gets cloak, heal, and weapons all based on energy, but he has a decent amount of energy and cloak is fairly cheap
04:27.03JManVbut the only free attack he gets is melee
04:27.15JManVwhich would kill a marine basically instantly
04:27.43JManVa heal would require him to be out of combat for a minute
04:27.49Skittlesmm
04:27.50JManVand he lets out a scream when he uses it
04:28.05Skittleslol ur making avp?
04:28.13JManVkinda
04:28.15JManVpredator tag
04:28.16Skittlesor predator the cat
04:28.36JManVkill predator to become predator
04:28.41Skittleswhat about pocketmonsta's!
04:28.41JManVonly the predator gets points
04:28.56Skittleskinda lame concept
04:28.56JManVi am absolutely still working on that
04:28.59JManVworking on it right now
04:29.04JManVyou think so?
04:29.06Skittlescuz the predator is the one who hides
04:29.10Skittlesinstead of killing
04:29.19JManVhe gets points for killing marines
04:29.19Bounty><
04:29.25JManVhe has to hunt
04:29.27BountySkittles, do you approve of mah map
04:29.28Skittlesbut marines want to kill him
04:29.36Skittlesno
04:29.45Bountykay
04:29.46Skittlesmake the damn derby
04:29.47Bountylol
04:29.48Skittlesor gtfo
04:29.53Skittlesgogogo!
04:29.55JManVold avp game back in the day had predator tag as a game mode
04:30.00JManVit was made addictive fun
04:30.01Skittleshmm
04:30.05JManVmad
04:30.10Skittleswell i mean
04:30.24Skittlesu can always change it if it fails
04:30.24Skittles:p
04:30.24JademusSregJman, I like your idea. Especially the double edge to healing.
04:30.28Skittlesbut i c tags as being a team sport
04:30.45JManVanyways, i just need a sidetrack from time to time, and i think i could build the core of the game in a day
04:30.57Skittlesmhm
04:31.03Skittlesusing the hybrid?
04:31.09JManVnot sure
04:31.14JManVhybrid is a bit much
04:31.19Skittlesclosest unit in the game tho
04:31.33JManVdt is actually closer to a predator, just a little small
04:31.35*** join/#sc2mapster Shawn|Rawr (~chatzilla@ip70-189-159-47.lv.lv.cox.net)
04:31.50Skittlesoh yeah i was thinking of aliens
04:32.03Skittleswhat roll do the aliens play?!
04:32.10JManVnone currently
04:32.15Skittles=(
04:32.27JManVthey weren't a part of predator tag in the game
04:32.35JManVthe game was marines v predator
04:33.10BountyDoritos are fucking crazy man
04:33.17Bountyit says Supreme Pizza on the packaging
04:33.19grim001jademus
04:33.25JademusSregYes?
04:33.25JManVit might be interesting to through aliens in for a variant, tho
04:33.27Bountyand it really tastes like im eating a Supreme Pizza!
04:33.33grim001I got the script requirements working a while ago in case you didn't read the backlog
04:33.57JManVi was thinking maybe the point of the aliean would be to reproduce
04:33.58JademusSregI did not.
04:34.04JManVif everyone becomes an aliean somehow, the aliean wins
04:34.05JademusSregExcellent. Does it search same file or includes as well?
04:34.06JManVbut that's more variant than anything
04:34.47grim001what do you mean by same file?
04:34.47JademusSregOr wait, maybe I'm misunderstanding.
04:35.17grim001the way I imagine this working is: you have a folder that contains all of the scripts you want merged into a single output script for your map. select the folder and the map folder and go.
04:35.18JManVi'm thinking the marines would get drop pods with weapons/armor/health
04:35.36JManVbut i'd think that the predator would be aware of those drop pods
04:36.39JManVbut thinks like missiles and grenades would be key to taking down the predator
04:36.50grim001so, each file consists of a single script, and there is no need to use "includes" anymore for anything.
04:37.19Abstrusejade you around?
04:37.50JManVi like the idea
04:38.03JManVfile-based encapsulation and orgainziation?
04:38.14JManVfile scope?
04:38.17grim001yes
04:38.34JademusSregExcellent.
04:38.40JademusSregI didn't like includes anyway.
04:38.42JManVwhat if you refer to a variable in another file scope?
04:38.56JManVdoes your engine actually catch the error?
04:39.14grim001I'm not that far along yet, I just have requirements working.
04:39.36JManVthat's right, you said something about unique id's, right?
04:39.38grim001I'm not 100% on how encapsulation will be handled yet
04:39.57grim001but I think it'd be fine to just leave everything alone unless you prefix it "private" or "public"
04:40.01JManVwell get that way!   j/k  :P
04:40.08grim001private gets a random prefix, public gets ScriptName_ prefix.
04:40.16JManVyeah
04:40.36grim001this thing is not going to attempt to catch any errors since it isn't a compiler.
04:40.51grim001but you will surely get an error when you try to compile the script in the editor
04:41.44grim001by errors I mean syntax-related errors.
04:41.44JManVyeah
04:41.44grim001or calls to nonexistent functions or whatever.
04:41.53grim001It will have strong error handling support for the things it actually is involved in.
04:42.29grim001It can already identify if you attempt to use a nonexistent library, if a library requires itself, or if there's a requirement cycle.
04:42.57JManVjust so you know, as a potential consumer, it would have to really make my life a lot easier for me to even consider using it
04:43.35grim001I'm open to ideas, but there's no reason not to use something like this if you are already coding in notepad++ and using the include trick to get it to use your local script copy
04:43.36JManVthat's the burden of third-party stuff like that, unfortunately
04:43.59JManVpart of the problem is having to learn something new, the other part is trusting the black box
04:44.43grim001well you can see the output script yourself so it's not much of a black box
04:44.45JManVif its easy, tho, there's definitely a better chance
04:44.50grim001but as for support, I will probably be right here in IRC
04:45.11JManVi'm just telling you what the burden is
04:45.21grim001I'm aware
04:45.24JManVit seems like you have a good potential to surpass it
04:45.36JManVit's a fuzzy line tho
04:45.43JManVbecause the more features you add, the more complicated it gets
04:45.59JManVusefulness goes up, usability goes down
04:46.03grim001I don't really care about many people use it, this is mostly for myself and other people who are suffering NewGen deprivation and don't want to wait 3 years for some amazing compiler to be created.
04:46.27JManVok, cool
04:46.47grim001if you have a list of wanted features feel free to inform me
04:46.50JManVi'm hesistant to use galaxy, anyways, so i may not exactly be the target market
04:47.00JManVbut concepts like encapsulation intrigue me
04:47.10JManVoh, i have
04:47.22JManVi'm the most interested in true OO
04:47.33grim001this thing isn't going to modify the language
04:47.35JManVbut that's a lofty goal
04:47.44JademusSregHah.
04:47.49JManVwell aware, we've actually had that conversation
04:47.59grim001I forgot
04:48.06JademusSregAndromeda and Grape aspire to OOP.
04:48.09MrOpjman you should have all your pokemon say there own name randomly
04:48.19MrOpjff
04:48.25grim001I designed Cosmos, an interesting OOP language for SC2, but I will never find the time to actually create a compiler for it
04:48.27JManVthere will be an aspect of that
04:48.47JademusSregAndromeda is in limbo and Grape's fate rests with s3rius.
04:48.51grim001I honestly think that almost no one would use it due to how different from galaxy it would be, anyway
04:48.53JManVi don't care for the non-C-style one
04:48.59JManVis that grape?
04:49.09JademusSregYes.
04:49.11BountyI only got one thing to say to you guys
04:49.11JManVbah
04:49.12Bountyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZEdDMQZaCU
04:49.15JManVstick with c-style
04:49.51JManVso much less to learn if you just use the convential code style
04:50.39JManV<3 { }
04:50.59JManVbest block formatting of any language
04:51.06JManVBEGIN/END can suck a...
04:51.33JademusSregHere I was hoping you'd found some drive and made a video demo of your map, Bounty.
04:51.47Demoyou made a video of me?
04:51.52Bountyi need players to make the video
04:52.03Bountyfirst impression is everything
04:52.03JademusSregWakka wakka
04:52.36JademusSregAnyway, begin and end keywords are too damn verbose.
04:52.42JManVabsolutely
04:52.46Abstrusejade
04:52.47JademusSregMakes me sick. =(
04:52.55JManV{ } are brief, but readible
04:53.16Abstruseone of my friends needed the isos for d2, i wasn't thinking and used the same folder you're synced to
04:53.51Abstrusejust 1.5gb of crap :P
04:54.05JademusSregWhich folder?
04:54.10Abstrusedeath to interface
04:54.13Shawn|RawrJade, whats better to use.. one string var or 6 booleans?
04:54.42JManVbanks or regular variables?
04:54.52Shawn|Rawrregular
04:54.53JManVdid we determine the size of bools?
04:55.02JManVuse the right variable for the purpose
04:55.19JManVif it calls for 6 bools, use 6 bools
04:55.25Shawn|RawrWell Ryan is using 6 bools to determine what char class the user picked
04:55.32Shawn|RawrI think strings would be more efficient
04:55.58Shawn|RawrWas wanting another opinion
04:56.20JademusSregIf the bools are 32-bit, then the string is more efficient it it uses less than 32*6 bits to store the same data.
04:56.20JManVoh
04:56.24JManV6 bools for character class?
04:56.29JManVew
04:56.38JManVthat doesn't sound very expandible
04:56.50JManVwhat if you want to add 4 classes?
04:56.53JManVor 20?
04:57.51JManVpersonally, i would use a preset
04:57.51Bountycould you just use unit type of unit
04:57.51Shawn|RawrI just want it to be If CharClass(Player) = Zealot, then spawn zealot
04:57.52JManVoh yeah
04:57.52JManVduh
04:57.53JManVunit type
04:57.54JManVwhy not use unit type?
04:57.54Bountyas long as its not running alot
04:57.55Bountyunit type of unit is good
04:57.55JademusSregUnit type is string.
04:57.55Shawn|RawrThat too. His systems are so weird sometimes
04:58.18Bountyhow many ppl do u guys have working on taht damn thing
04:58.21Bountylike 13 ppl?
04:58.22Bountylol
04:59.15JademusSregLet's see, no unicode support in strings, but unicode is supported in text, so the chars in strings must be... how many bits?
05:00.00Shawn|RawrWe have 3 + me sometimes
05:00.07Shawn|RawrWhen I feel like it
05:00.45Bountyi dunno how ppl can work in a team on a map... then again i work alone and never finish anything so
05:01.15Shawn|Rawra lot of the work is in triggers
05:01.17Shawn|RawrALOT
05:01.42Shawn|RawrSo its not super difficult
05:01.42Bountynot that
05:01.43Bountyi mean workign with 3 other ppl
05:01.43Bountyon the same map
05:01.45JManVi wouldn't even know how to have someone make a single dialog for me
05:01.46Bountylol
05:02.14Shawn|RawrWell when we take this map to blizz, it will be worth it
05:02.18JManVlike, there's some much dependant stuff
05:02.29Bounty???
05:02.31Bountytake it to blizz?
05:02.43Bountyi didnt realize u could just "take it to blizz" lol
05:02.44Shawn|RawrWhen ryan goes to blizz, they are going to play it
05:02.55Shawn|RawrThey even said they want to
05:03.27Bountyso what do u expect to come of it? a job?
05:03.48Shawn|RawrHmm. .a ticket to blizzcon would be nice
05:03.54Bountylol
05:03.55Shawn|RawrBut I don't expect anything
05:04.20BountyIf the map is amazing you should atleast get a job offer
05:04.21JManVi think it's cool that we have a community project
05:04.58Shawn|RawrIf anyone should get a job offer, its mille
05:05.13Bountyy
05:05.13Shawn|RawrThat dude has some crazy stuff in these triggers that I don't even understand yet
05:05.19Bountylol
05:05.23Bountywhat about DarkRev?
05:05.35Shawn|RawrHim too. His physics system is amazing
05:06.09Bountyi have the best collision physics in the world
05:06.12Shawn|RawrThis map wouldnt have been possible without mille and darkrec
05:06.15Bounty><
05:06.18Shawn|Rawrdarkrev*
05:06.20JManVthat's a bold statement
05:06.21JademusSregHe and I had a charming discussion about the merits of DragonBall Z, as I recall.
05:06.22Bountywell its still not done YET :)
05:06.27Bountyim being sarcastic JMan
05:06.31Bountybc of how simple my system is
05:06.33Bountylol
05:06.35JManVah
05:06.39Bountyu cant even call it a system
05:06.41Bountymore of a method
05:06.47JManVso it has nothing to do with physics
05:06.54Bountykinda
05:07.03Bountyspeed affects impact
05:07.08Bountybut not super realistic
05:07.09Bountylike
05:07.24Bountyidk
05:07.26Bounty><
05:07.33JManVhow do you determine speed?
05:07.45Shawn|RawrI'm still amazed at how we're only at 1.7mb of triggers
05:07.45Bountyit works good enough that skittles wannts me to make a collision destruction derby lol
05:07.51Bountywhat do u mean how do i determine speed?
05:07.52JManVwhat, really?
05:08.05Bountylike how fast they were going?
05:08.05JManVi have almost 3M of triggers :P
05:08.11JManV2.75MB
05:08.12Shawn|RawrYa. Thats what i mean
05:08.16Shawn|RawrI don't understand it
05:08.18JManVand thats the mod
05:08.23JManVthere's more code on the map
05:08.31Shawn|RawrRyan is against using mods
05:08.32JManVbut not a lot
05:08.42JManVi have to use mods for my game
05:08.43Shawn|RawrHe wants all 10 map slots
05:08.56JManVso i can have multiple maps inheriting the same stuff
05:09.10JManVall the data, all the combat triggers
05:09.57JManVbasically the whole engine is the mod
05:09.58CryptRatSo I think I'm going to compromise.
05:09.58JManVand the map is terrain, with some triggers that tell the mod where to do what
05:09.58CryptRatAnd just cost units energy to attack.
05:10.01JManVlike here's an encounter region
05:10.04CryptRatBecause starcraft people already know how energy works.
05:10.07JManVhere's a building
05:10.54JManVand i'm totally gonna run out of my 10 maps in no time :P
05:10.55JManVmod, building designer, map = 3 so far
05:11.04JManVtournament map
05:11.12JManVpotentially another story map
05:11.30JManVpossibly and expansion in the future
05:11.54JademusSregCryptRat, are you trying to make ammo?
05:12.23CryptRatYes, but energy bars are very easily visible when you don't have a unit selected.
05:12.39JManVyou need to select a unit to use them, right?
05:12.46JManVor are we talking 1st/3rd person
05:12.49CryptRatNot if you have them on by default
05:13.03CryptRatI have it set so health bars for all units/structures are always vsiible
05:13.14JManVoic
05:13.16CryptRatbut that's just my personal Starcraft setting
05:13.28JManVso normal attack takes ammo
05:13.29CryptRatAnd I'm pretty sure I don't need energy for anything else, so using energy for ammo seems like an elegant compromise.
05:13.41JManVi could see that working
05:13.52JManVaren't there some other bars?
05:13.52CryptRatBecause it also makes adding ammo with an ability veeery easy to do.
05:13.59JManVthere's like 6 i thought
05:14.14CryptRatAfaik, there's only 3: Shields, Life, Energy
05:14.17JManVcargo :P
05:14.29JManValso,  prograss and duration
05:14.40JManVcargo is actually grided out tho
05:14.47JademusSregYeah.
05:14.50JManVand white
05:15.04JManVi wonder how it would look if you set it to like 30
05:15.30CryptRatI just feel like what I want to do wouldn't make sense to most starcraft players. So I'm not going to do it. x_x
05:15.30JademusSregYou can modify the UI colors anyway.
05:15.34CryptRat^true enough
05:15.46CryptRatbut I'm not going to
05:15.50JManVyeah, you could change the purple color
05:16.06CryptRatPlayers already know what energy is so there's no reason to confuse them on that.
05:16.08JManVi think ppl really associate purple bar with energy
05:16.20JManVenergy != ammo, and players will feel that, imo
05:16.32*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
05:16.36CryptRatWell it's not so much energy = ammo,  it's that attacking costs energy
05:17.06CryptRatAt least when phrased the second way, it uses what people already know...
05:17.11JManVi could see that working for energy weapons, but it might feel weird for ammo based weapons
05:17.18CryptRatThere aren't energy weapons x_x
05:17.33JManVbut that's just one person's option
05:17.34JManVopinion
05:17.50CryptRatWell you aren't adding energy weapons to my game so...
05:18.08CryptRatAnd every single unit ever will cost energy to attack, so I don't think it will be an issue.
05:18.18JademusSregMakes sense.
05:18.23JademusSregLike Action Points.
05:18.42CryptRatAnd you only have a handful of units to keep track of.
05:18.52Bountyhai guys
05:18.56Bountywanna race?
05:18.56Bounty><
05:19.01CryptRatagain? x_x
05:19.02JManVi could see it working
05:19.05JManVikr
05:19.16Bountyi put in the new balance changes
05:19.19Bountyso u dont die every 5 seconds
05:19.30JManVyou can't possibly need as many tests a day as you do
05:19.35*** join/#sc2mapster Hunter_Killers (~Hunter_Ki@S0106001fc67332fd.va.shawcable.net)
05:19.43Bountyi have barely had any tests
05:19.48Bountyits been mostly me TRYING to test
05:19.49Bountylol
05:19.54JManVwhy don't you organize tests where you can actually get a full house at once
05:20.01Bountyi haz no friends
05:20.05Bountysept Jade
05:20.07Bountyhe is mah friendz
05:20.24JManVpost in forums to get ppl together
05:20.34Bountyi really want this to be a surprise though
05:20.39Bountylike
05:20.41Bountywhen u see the video
05:20.43Bountyor hear about it
05:20.48Bountyu can hop on bnet and play
05:20.49Bountyimmediately
05:21.12JManVso set everything up and then test
05:21.39Bountywell does anyone want in? im tryna get some ppl online
05:21.43JManVyou can test most of your stuff by yourself, figure out how to utilize computer players
05:22.07Bountyreally dude?
05:22.14Bountylol
05:22.20JManVi don't mind helping you test every once in a while, even every few days, but you ask for it an awful lot
05:22.48Bountybc everytime i ask the test doesnt happen
05:23.19CryptRatHm. Going on the energy = ammo assumption, getting more energy is useless unless you have enough life so that you can spend it all.
05:23.28CryptRatOr are else aren't being attacked.
05:23.58JManVyou can reload?
05:24.00JManVcant
05:25.43CryptRatHm. I think I can simplify everything if I make it so that once unit A starts attacking unit B, unit B is required to attack unit A and vice versa until one of them dies.
05:26.04JManVwhere are you going with all of this?
05:26.05CryptRatAnd that would allow me to use a single attack command with some sort of behavioral unit commanding thing.
05:27.00JademusSregCheck out the sheep. The Herd ability forces unit orders.
05:27.05CryptRatsheep?
05:27.25Shawn|Rawrno, kangaroos
05:27.37Shawn|Rawrof course sheep
05:27.52CryptRatWat/
05:27.54Shawn|Rawrthere is a sheep in the game
05:28.04Shawn|Rawrit has a behavior that forces it to move
05:28.28JManVyou spend a lot of time working with that sheep, don't you jademus?
05:28.30CryptRatx_x What's that doing there?
05:28.55CryptRatWhen is a sheep ever used in Starcraft?
05:29.01CryptRatI don't remember any on agria.
05:29.07CryptRatOr haven
05:29.10JademusSregHaha
05:29.21JademusSregI tinkered with it in one of my tests.
05:29.25Shawn|RawrSheep is a staple of the community
05:29.29Shawn|RawrIt has to be there
05:29.33CryptRat???
05:29.47JademusSregI made a dog that barked to scare sheep away from it, to try and herd them into corals.
05:29.48Shawn|RawrName one WC3 game that didnt have sheep
05:29.52Shawn|RawrI cant think of one
05:29.59CryptRatI've never played a WC game
05:30.06CryptRatbut what does that have to do with Starcraft?
05:30.07JManVwhat does the set effect do?
05:30.16CryptRatIt holds a bunch of other effects.
05:30.19JademusSregIt sets effects.
05:30.31JManVbut it's only holding 1 effect
05:30.45JademusSregThink of it as a bifurcating effect.
05:30.45CryptRatIs it changing a target?
05:30.51CryptRatOr validating anything?
05:30.52JademusSregOr an effect that applied other effects.
05:31.10JademusSregBasically, the Set class is awesome.
05:31.11JManVok
05:31.19JademusSregThe Switch class is also awesome.
05:31.26CryptRatI had a weird issue yesterday when I was working on Baneling Bombard.
05:32.09JManValright so i kinda understand what that does
05:32.21JManVbut i'm gonna go back to what i was doing
05:32.36CryptRatSo the Infestor spawnInfestedTerran ability creates a unit with a footprint at the targeted location, but then it changes that unit to a projectile or something and 'appears' to launch it to the place that the unit was created.
05:33.07CryptRatI was trying to get the baneling to fling itself into a targeted unit, but at one point I was changing the targeted unit into a projectile and firing it at itself. x_x
05:34.13CryptRatIt was just wierd because the space the unit was occupied was still occupied, but had no visual while it was 'in the air'.
05:34.22JademusSregYes. I've seen that happen.
05:34.59JademusSregDemonette made a copy of the infestor tentacle thing and had the same effect.
05:35.17JademusSregSomething to do with the missile unit type being none.
05:35.26JademusSregAnd possible some other fields not mentioned.
05:36.12BountyDoes a unit thats hidden with Hide Unit still render?
05:36.36CryptRatYeah that's what someone suggested that fixed it.
05:36.50CryptRatIf you don't specify the ammo type it uses the unit that's firing the ability
05:37.18CryptRatBut that doesn't change the unit to 'missile' status, so I had to manually make it benign
05:37.50*** join/#sc2mapster Deaod (~Deaod@p4FD9A356.dip.t-dialin.net)
05:38.28Shawn|RawrApparently beams also can be messed up in xml transfer
05:38.36Shawn|RawrAll my beams are missing their models
05:39.26CryptRatDeath to all!
05:39.34CryptRatIs it difficult to make a weapon able to attack air units through a behavior?
05:39.59Shawn|RawrI think not
05:40.04Shawn|RawrShould be in the modification thing somewhere
05:40.07grim001Time to vote, what should the next implemented feature be?
05:40.13JademusSregAnd if it's not, swap weapon.
05:40.20grim001more specifically, what features does it need before anyone would bother to use it?
05:40.27Shawn|RawrIt has to read my thoughts
05:40.41JademusSregI'm guessing Classes are out of the question?
05:41.08grim001if you can figure out a way to do them with a reasonable amount of string manipulation, it's possible
05:41.10Shawn|RawrI could use some programming classes
05:41.54JademusSregModding is nice practice, if you have good programming role models.
05:42.18Shawn|RawrI ask you lots of questions
05:42.18Shawn|RawrThats a start
05:42.22JademusSregYes.
05:43.04Shawn|RawrI swear I'm going to change the char selection to string asap
05:43.11JademusSregDo eeet.
05:43.23JademusSregIt'
05:43.29Shawn|RawrI need to fix the beams first though
05:43.31JademusSregIt's certainly more intuitive.
05:43.44JManVhow about binary saving? :P
05:43.59JManVfopen(), fwrite() :P
05:44.21JademusSregTerrain I'm currently working on: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1049551/Terrain%20WIP.jpg
05:44.22Lilianna\o/ binary files
05:44.29JademusSregObviously, I hate Blizzard cliffs.
05:44.31JManVand it auto-generates all the preload scripts for any files you open
05:44.45JManVthat would be kinda awesome
05:45.06JademusSregI've got Shadow working on some overhang cliff models, but it's hit a snag with the materials.
05:45.24JManVbasically starcode, but integrated
05:46.15JademusSregThere is an almost imperceptible dot, barely a smudge, near a cliff; it's a marine.
05:47.11Shawn|RawrWhat does starcode do?
05:47.19Shawn|RawrThat stuff is in here as well
05:47.32JManVstarcode is a bank library
05:47.42JManVconverts intergers into base-89
05:48.07JManVand generates a string using 89 characters that can be used inside XML
05:48.22JManVfor saving compressed data
05:48.28JManVsemi-binary
05:49.10JManVin true binary, you have byte-level control over how data is stored
05:49.30JManVand you can use all 256 possible values
05:50.17JManVbut since banks are XML, no dice
05:52.23Skittles3mb of triggers b4 compression or after/
05:52.43JManVbefore ofc
05:52.53JManVcompresses to like 6 bytes
05:53.19JManVamazing the kind of compression they get :P
05:53.36Skittlesyeah
05:53.38JManVcompressed = 155K
05:53.46Shawn|Rawrso that is why we havent hit the script limit?
05:53.46SkittlesI think mine's like 27mb maybe
05:53.53Skittles2.7 after compression
05:54.02JManVwha?
05:54.15Skittles?
05:54.30Shawn|RawrOh. nvm. guess i still dont get it
05:54.35Shawn|Rawr>.>
05:54.39Skittleslol
05:54.50SkittlesMaybe my code is just god like?
05:54.52JManVyou have 2.7M compressed?
05:54.55JademusSregThe compiled byte code, man.
05:54.59JademusSregNot the script.
05:55.01Skittlesopening it 1 sec
05:55.13Skittlesidk, overview manager?
05:55.19JManVyeah
05:55.40Skittlesah well i was quite a bit off. >.>
05:55.44Skittles2.59 uncompressed
05:55.51Skittles377kb compressed
05:55.58JManVthat's still a lot
05:56.07JManVwhat's all that code?
05:56.12Skittlesnot really. Not for what I have.
05:56.15SkittlesDiablo map
05:56.17JManVoh, ok
05:56.20Skittlesspells etc.
05:56.25JManVyou're really that far along?
05:56.26JManVi didn't realize
05:56.34SkittlesHaven't even worked on it for the last week tbh.
05:56.49Skittlesbut yeah, I've like half the spells done.
05:56.51JManVcuz i have 2.76M, and that is just an insane amount of code
05:56.56Skittles60 spells all together
05:57.02Skittlesonce it's finished
05:57.02JManVyour spells are triggers?
05:57.09SkittlesMost.
05:57.12JManVhuh
05:57.16Skittles?
05:57.22SkittlesIt's how we did it in wc3.
05:57.25JManVthey fast?
05:57.28SkittlesYou get way more flexibility and speed too.
05:57.36SkittlesFast?
05:57.37JManVwell, not sure those apply any longer
05:57.39SkittlesExecute fast?
05:57.42JademusSregBack in wc3, man, you had to write scripts for spells.
05:57.44JManVtriggers are fairly slow in sc2
05:57.54SkittlesI dont notice any lag at all?
05:57.57JManVok, cool
05:58.10JademusSregSlow relative to notoriously slow languages, yeah.
05:58.10SkittlesI have a projectile system that does a ton of stuff too
05:58.20Skittlesand it's only limit is fps
05:58.29JManVyeah, i've seen a number of trigger-based projectile systems
05:58.31JademusSregSlower than Ruby, but Jass was even slower.
05:58.38Skittleswhich basically, I Get around 12 fps when the entire screen is full of projectiles
05:58.45Shawn|RawrI believe all of ryans abilities are triggers
05:58.50Shawn|RawrAnd they work out nice
05:59.02Skittlesjass was slow? I didn't notice it really back then either. I notice a big different in what it can handle though.
05:59.22SkittlesWow my english is sucing.
05:59.25Skittlessucing @.@
05:59.27SkittlesSucking!
05:59.38SkittlesHell, I'ma go all out.
05:59.38JManVthat's awesome if it works for you
05:59.45SkittlesWow, my English is sucking right now.
05:59.46JManVi've hit all kinds of bottlenecks with triggers
05:59.55Skittleshow so?
06:00.10JManVdifferent things causing lag
06:00.24JManVlarge loops, just a few triggers firing at the same time
06:00.29SkittlesWell there's hardly any reason to have triggers that run constantly.
06:00.34JManVother such things that seem normal
06:00.34JademusSregLike what?
06:00.56JManVi had 3 triggers that ran concurrently and caused lag
06:00.57*** join/#sc2mapster Motive (~motive@c-68-36-169-50.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
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06:01.00SkittlesYour problem is probably using loops or array's instead of while's.
06:01.04Shawn|RawrI was working on a desert strike map earlier and for some reason one of my triggers is like 5 seconds runtime
06:01.04JademusSregI'm assuming something worse than O(n)?
06:01.13JManVno
06:01.22JManVtwo were updates to a dialog item
06:01.30JManVthe other was just a list of things to do
06:01.58Skittlesmm
06:02.00JManVit had a wait in it, at the beginning
06:02.17JademusSregHm. Well, the only thing that ever causes lag from triggers in my experience is mass object creation and run-away loops that approach the thread op limit.
06:02.22JManVcuz i wanted to wait a half a secong before removing the weapon
06:02.22SkittlesIdk, I never really have trigger issues. Then again, I've been using them almost for the majority of my life now.
06:02.34JManVunit in region() is also a pretty expensive computation
06:02.42JManVdone in a loop, it causes lag
06:02.51JademusSregunit in region?
06:02.58SkittlesMaking sure triggers close in a good amount of time is the hardest part of the whole process tbh.
06:03.11SkittlesThat's why i've transitioned into using data + triggers for a lot of stuff.
06:03.24JManVyeah, i love hybrid solutions
06:03.29Shawn|RawrJman, you mean the unit in region condition?
06:03.33JManVyeah
06:03.49Shawn|RawrI use that in my iteration through my 950 regions
06:03.50JManVi was checking against i think 11 regions, once every few seconds
06:04.03Shawn|RawrDont notice any delay
06:04.03SkittlesWell, for instance, it's a lot better to use buffs since they have a built in duration then using a trigger to change a units attributes then wait ten seconds and revert em.
06:04.18SkittlesDidja know you can combine regions?
06:04.21SkittlesTo make shapes
06:04.24JManVyes
06:04.25Shawn|RawrYes
06:04.31Shawn|RawrBut I can't do that in a TBS
06:04.33Shawn|Rawr:P
06:04.34SkittlesPain in the ass though
06:04.40JManVthat's how i do my building visibility
06:04.41SkittlesTbs?
06:04.55Shawn|Rawrdoes no one play turnbased strategy anymore?
06:05.01JademusSregMeeee
06:05.03Shawn|Rawris it really that dead of a genre?
06:05.03Skittlesoh u told me that
06:05.11SkittlesAnd no, I was never a fan other than pokemon for turn based.
06:05.21Skittlessucks.. I found all my cds and info stuff for diablo
06:05.24Skittlesand only LOD cd key
06:05.26JademusSregFinal Fantasy Tactics <3
06:05.34JManVin my case, not all regions are created equal
06:05.40JManVcivilization
06:05.56JManVTBS is not a dead genre
06:05.57Skittlesman, wish I could get a damn job so I can stop filling out all of these stupid applications.
06:06.04Shawn|RawrIf you have problems with combining regions, just make them seperate and hit numpad 0
06:06.10SkittlesI must of done like 20-25 the last two weeks
06:06.11Shawn|Rawreasy as hell
06:06.16JManVnintendo DS has like 8 TBS titles
06:06.17JademusSregCiv 2 great, Civ 3 meh, Civ 4 meh, Civ 5 awesome!- oh shit the game crashed.
06:06.28JManVciv revolution was a lot of fun
06:06.41JManVactually, prolly way more than 8
06:06.49JManVthere's like 8 really good TBS for the DS
06:07.02JManVadvance wars ftw!
06:07.16JademusSregAnyway, Civ is fun to play against people for a bit.
06:07.27JademusSregBut then I burn out because the game is shit to mod.
06:07.39SkittlesI dont think I ever played a civ game
06:07.47JManVheh
06:07.49JManVyou'll lose days
06:07.53SkittlesI've played total war
06:08.06JManVciv is very long-term oriented
06:08.08SkittlesIt was alright, but not really my cup of tea.
06:08.11JademusSregIn Civ 2, I made an apocalyptic future populated by mutants and monsters and Lavos.
06:08.31Skittles0.0
06:08.39JademusSregI also made a Zerg mod for Civ 2.
06:08.56CryptRatI can still use a behavior to increase a unit's max energy, correct?
06:09.06JademusSregYes.
06:09.14CryptRatYeah, I'm pretty sure this is what I want.
06:09.24CryptRatNow for the heavy committment. >_>
06:10.42JManVomg this is going to be epic
06:11.23JademusSreg?
06:11.33JManVworking on the starting cinematic for my game, and it's just starting to come together...
06:12.16JManVyou the starting scene where prof oak explains pokemon to you?
06:12.26JademusSregYes.
06:12.29BountyGuys
06:12.35BountyDo Hidden units Render???
06:12.53JManVits real simple, but it's elegance is it simplicity :P
06:13.01JademusSregNot that I know, but if you're not going to see them, they shouldn't have models anyway.
06:13.39JManVif you hide a unit, it basically doesn't exist on that plain
06:13.44JManVit can't do anything
06:13.50JManVnor can it be seen
06:14.01Bountywell
06:14.11BountySixen only gets 30-40 FPs on my map for some reason
06:14.13Bountysame with everyone
06:14.17Bountyand it shouldnt be that way
06:14.26Bountywith only a 75 draw distance and almost no doodads
06:14.37Sixen=|
06:14.41SkittlesI got 10-25
06:14.46Skittlesif it makes u feel better
06:14.49Bountylol
06:14.51JademusSregDo as I command (suggest)!
06:14.51Sixenlol
06:14.58Bountyit doesnt make any sense
06:15.01Sixen"I suggest you do as I command!"
06:15.07JademusSregRemove the models from those units.
06:15.14Sixenoh true
06:15.16SkittlesI suggest you command that I live peacefully and wonderfully
06:15.18Sixenthey don't need models
06:15.20JademusSregYuri from RA2 said "My command is your wish."
06:15.56Bountyremoving models now
06:15.56JademusSregIn the actor.
06:15.56Bounty><
06:15.57JademusSregTurn on the click helper.
06:16.13JademusSregSo when you Press V, you can see the click helpers.
06:16.26JManVah, yuri
06:16.36JManV<3 yuri prime
06:16.36BountyJade
06:16.41Bountyi dont know what ur talking about
06:16.42Bounty<PROTECTED>
06:16.47*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
06:16.49JademusSregYuri Prime was op as fuck.
06:16.55JademusSregUse Click Helper
06:17.31JManVyeah he was
06:17.35Bountytook off the models
06:17.38Bountyno performance differance
06:17.58JManVi made a map where you started out with a yuri prime and three mobile command centers nearby
06:18.42JManVso basically you could immediately start building everything
06:18.49JManVand ofc the computer didn't do that
06:19.03*** join/#sc2mapster tordy (6274591f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.116.89.31)
06:19.03Bountylol wow such fucking horseshit
06:19.04CryptRatHm. What would be causing a black actor bubble?
06:19.09Bountyeven at FIFTY DRAW DISTANCE
06:19.11Bountythats right
06:19.11Bounty50
06:19.20CryptRatI copied from roach acid attack ...
06:19.20Bountyi drop below 60
06:19.20JademusSregIt's a sphere.
06:19.21JademusSregBad model path.
06:19.22Bountyhow the hell is this possible
06:19.26CryptRatI know,, but it's not the normal gray one
06:19.48tordypatch out yet
06:20.53JManVheheh
06:21.00JManVnow i just need stetmann to talk
06:22.09JManVi just figured out i could use the campaign stetmann instead of that stupid medic stetmann
06:22.14JManVcampaign story that is
06:22.23JManVthat stetmann has way more animations
06:22.23JademusSregHahaha,
06:22.28BountyROLL
06:22.30BountyON THe
06:22.32BountyFUCKING
06:22.32BountyFLOOR
06:22.33BountyLAUGHING
06:22.41Bountydoodads
06:22.44Bountyi remove EVERYTHING on the entire map
06:22.44Bountyunits
06:22.48Bountyguess what?
06:22.51Bounty40 FRAMES PER SECOND
06:22.51Bountystill
06:22.56Bountyfigure that shit out
06:23.10JademusSregI never had trouble.
06:23.17JManVman bnet spam filter would have reduced that to 4 lines
06:24.06Bountyso im once again screwd yes? lol
06:24.11Bountythis is a big issue
06:24.16Bountyand makes no sense
06:24.22Bountywhat is ur farclip usually jademus?
06:24.30JademusSregDelete all the triggers.
06:24.47JademusSregI usually use the default far clip.
06:25.41Bountyok deleted all the triggers
06:25.51Bountysame
06:25.55JademusSregNow.
06:26.00JademusSregPull out your hair.
06:26.05Bountynah
06:26.09Bountyi just quit out of the editor
06:26.11Bountyand im going to smoke
06:26.15Bountyand play dragon age 2
06:26.19Bountyand pretend like im enjoying it
06:26.25Bountywhen i would rather be mapping
06:26.31Bountybut this is how u fix bugs
06:26.35JademusSregI miss smoking.
06:26.36Bountyu show the editor whos boss
06:26.58Bountyi wish i could quit lol
06:27.08JManVi don't miss it
06:27.10Bountyi look at my cig when i light it up as if to go... why?
06:27.14Bounty><
06:27.27JManVsmoking is nasty
06:27.38JManVi couldn't start again if i wanted to
06:27.46JManVit just doesn't taste good
06:27.54Bountyi smoke menthols
06:27.58Bountyit always tastes good
06:28.06JademusSregI've got a family. As much a selfish asshole as I definitely am, I care enough to resist, mostly
06:28.08JManVi smoked camel reds
06:28.26JManVi haven't actually had one of those since i quit
06:28.33JManVbut i've had camels, and they're gross
06:28.41Bountyi will most likely quit sometime soon Jade
06:28.41Bountyfor the same reason
06:28.42CryptRatx_x How do action actors work?
06:28.47Bountyi dont want him smoking lol
06:29.25JademusSregAction actors are the actors for actions, of course. =D
06:29.32*** join/#sc2mapster airtonix (~T_T@unaffiliated/airtonix)
06:30.18CryptRatBut I copied it and what seem to be all the relevant values from the roach's attack, but it's still giving me a useless black bubble.
06:30.35CryptRatThe only things I couldn't copy were the fields with (Unknown)
06:30.38JademusSregDid you set any relevant tokens?
06:30.46CryptRatYes
06:31.16JademusSregDo the events refer to the correct values?
06:31.27JademusSregWeapon.something.stuff
06:31.45CryptRatThere are only 5
06:31.49CryptRatand they appear correct
06:32.02CryptRatThey changed with the tokens
06:32.08JademusSregHm.
06:32.19CryptRatI manually set the art beam and missle
06:32.29CryptRatback to the roach
06:32.32JademusSregIt's too late in the night for me to look at the xml.
06:32.50CryptRatbecause the editor auto-changed it to a new name when I changed the tokens
06:33.08CryptRatI'm sure it's something simple that I'm over looking though. x_x
06:33.43JademusSregAlways is. =)
06:35.28JademusSregTime to sleep. Later.
06:35.39CryptRatThanks anyhow. :)
06:35.58JademusSregIf it's still a problem when I get back, show me the data.
06:36.21MrOpcan i get a sosme people to test my map please
06:36.28MrOpsome*
06:36.31JademusSregBack modding during beta, the only way was yo work with XML. So insightful.
06:36.42JademusSregLater.
06:38.10MrOpcan i get a some people to test my map please
06:38.43MrOp*cricket*
06:38.46MrOp(_ _)
06:44.17CryptRatOf couuuuuurse.
06:44.23CryptRatI didn't copy the missle actor itself.
06:44.33CryptRatSo the action actor had nothing to do. x_x
06:51.46grim001time to settle down with some snacks and get some coding done
06:54.45JManVhttp://i53.tinypic.com/2ufaxwx.png
06:55.05tordyis the patch out yet
06:55.53grim001cool screenshot
06:56.33JManValthough the backdrop is very simple, it's spot-on what i was going for
06:58.40Shawn|Rawrpretty damn epic
06:58.51Shawn|Rawrthe ok button looks a bit off though
06:59.11Shawn|Rawrlike its not centered vertically
06:59.15Bountylol
06:59.19BountyNERD!
06:59.20Bounty=P
06:59.46JManVi think i'm gonna have two units spawn while he's talking and proceed to fight behind him
06:59.55JManVthen one will run away and the other will chase
07:00.10JManVi think that could be a fun little touch
07:01.50JManVanyways, time for bed
07:01.52JManV3 hours ago..
07:03.33Skittleshaha
07:03.36SkittlesWell, nite.
07:03.45SkittlesDont let the swarm bite.
07:05.24Queen_WINNINGomg pokemon
07:06.15CryptRatWow. Stetman looks right at home there.
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07:06.56CryptRatIs there a way to conditionally lock a unit in a region so that it can't move out?
07:07.11Queen_WINNINGone quest should be to bring the GSball to prof Raynor
07:07.33Queen_WINNINGand zergling evolves into hydra into ULTRALISK
07:08.07CryptRatZerglisk?
07:08.37tordybop
07:08.42CryptRatDon't you bop me! D:
07:08.45tordyhttp://i53.tinypic.com/2ufaxwx.png
07:08.48tordyim likin this
07:11.38Queen_WINNINGzerglisk yah
07:11.39Queen_WINNINGand instead of one region, its actual planets
07:11.40Vexalhello.
07:11.44CryptRathai
07:11.52*** part/#sc2mapster Queen_WINNING (43ab2844@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.40.68)
07:12.51P_R_DeltoidPOCKET
07:12.53P_R_DeltoidWARRIORS
07:12.59P_R_DeltoidHIYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
07:14.43tordyyo JManV
07:14.54Skittleshe went to bed
07:14.54tordyany picture so the an in-game battle
07:14.56Skittleshi vexal
07:14.56tordy:(
07:15.00tordyhi Skittles
07:15.08Skittleshi tordy
07:16.52*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
07:34.06tordyhow do you do that
07:40.56CryptRatAnyone want to help me test what I was working on? :p
07:41.26CryptRatHow about *you* Bounty? xP
07:47.17*** join/#sc2mapster Queen_WINNING_ (43ab2844@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.40.68)
07:49.47Vexalhello.
07:50.03tordynot a reverse scramble
07:50.37*** part/#sc2mapster Queen_WINNING_ (43ab2844@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.40.68)
08:16.56Motive_WINNERgrim, does your preprocessor have any specific syntax sexiness defined yet?
08:16.58*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
08:27.18CryptRatIf I wanted to increase the air-time of a projectile, where what data field would I be looking to modify?
08:27.40Shawn|RawrYou want to make the projectile slower?
08:27.58CryptRatI think so.
08:28.28CryptRatWould it be a mover entry?
08:29.46Shawn|RawrMaybe. I was thinking of setting the speed in the ammo unit, but i honestly dont remember right now
08:30.25CryptRatI've 'fixed' my combat system mostly, but there are a few lagging issues.
08:30.55CryptRatIf two units are attacking each other i want the projectile to go slow enough that each unit gets their last shot off before they both die.
08:31.34CryptRatRather than 1 unit survive with veeery low health.
08:32.49Shawn|RawrI imagine a behavior that kills the unit if he drops below 5% health
08:33.11CryptRatWell again, one unit would get there first.
08:33.37CryptRatI mean, I could have a time-delayed kill off, but that just doesn't feel as intuitive.
08:34.33CryptRatIf slowing the projectile doesn't work, I'll probably try to come up with a 'dieing shot' behavior that only works if the unit was attacking somehtiing when it died.
08:36.54CryptRatThere's also another issue I'm having:
08:37.20CryptRatEach attack costs 1 energy, but if you issue an order in the middle, you'll lose the cost, but the unit won't attack.
08:39.11*** join/#sc2mapster Buze (~BubuzePow@roe35-1-78-231-170-70.fbx.proxad.net)
08:46.47Vexalhow do i make it so any player can use a shop?
08:47.13MrOpcan i get a some people to test my map please
08:51.13*** join/#sc2mapster Dekar (~Dekar@p4FCEC6BB.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:54.23Vexalhow do i make it so any player can access a shop?
08:54.31Vexalit's only working for the player that owns it currently
08:55.05Bountychange owner on the fly?
08:55.47Vexalwhat if more than one person want to use it at the same time
08:56.06Bountyim not sure how accessing shops work, idk if it would kick people out
08:56.09Bountyi would think it wouldnt
08:56.17Bountyworth a try
08:57.03Vexali want it to work the same way it did in wc3
08:57.17Bountywhy does it have to be access by an owner?
08:57.21Bountywhy not make it neutral?
08:57.32Vexali tried making it neutral
08:57.35Vexalbut no one could access it
08:57.40Bountylol wtf
08:57.42Vexalit only seems to allow the owning player to access it
08:57.55CryptRatthe Interact ability?
08:57.58Vexalyeah
08:58.08Vexalhow do i make it so any player can use a shop
08:58.12Vexalnot just the player that owns it
08:58.45CryptRatyou're already using the interact ability?
08:59.34CryptRathello?
08:59.44BountyHi!
08:59.45Vexalyeah
08:59.47Vexali am using it
08:59.50Vexalsorry
09:00.11Vexali just placed the "TestShop" unit
09:00.14Vexalthat came in the editor
09:02.30VexalCryptRat ^
09:02.37Bountyhello?
09:02.38BountyHELLO?
09:02.45VexalBounty
09:02.47Vexalbeep.
09:02.51BountyVexal
09:02.59CryptRatwell then i dunno
09:03.00Bountyeat that beep
09:03.08Bountyom nom nom
09:03.18CryptRatbounty
09:03.24Bountymother fucker
09:03.28BountyCryptRat
09:03.31Bountylol
09:03.32Bounty><
09:03.41CryptRatI wanted you to test my map earlier x_x
09:03.49Bountyyou did?
09:03.54CryptRatI did
09:04.05Bountysorry, i always have this thing open/running but im not always actually here
09:04.10Bountymuch like 99% of the people in here
09:04.19Vexalyeah
09:04.21Vexali woke up 2 hours ago
09:04.33BountySeriously though
09:04.45BountyHow many of those people on the list of whos in the irc have you ever seen speak?
09:04.47BountyEver
09:05.04Bountyatleast 80% of them ive never seen speak a word but they are always here
09:05.36CryptRatwhich is stoopid
09:06.47P_R_DeltoidWhat about me
09:06.48P_R_DeltoidDo I count,.
09:06.51P_R_Deltoid???????
09:06.56CryptRatno! :D
09:07.02Bountywho the FUCK are you
09:07.08BountyYou're one of them
09:07.09P_R_DeltoidI was here before you, kiddo.
09:07.11BountyThat i spoke of
09:07.12Shawn|RawrThats what I want to know
09:07.13P_R_DeltoidFar far before.
09:07.17P_R_DeltoidIn the before time.
09:07.26P_R_DeltoidBack when starcraft was beta
09:07.29P_R_DeltoidI am waving my arms around
09:07.30P_R_Deltoidirl
09:07.45BountyI've been here since Warcraft 2 Beta
09:07.56BountyI dont think there was one
09:08.01BountyBut i remember it
09:08.05BountyAnd i was there
09:08.52BountyBy the way
09:09.13BountyWhat are the odds that i bring up the fact 90% of the people here never speak that one of you happens to speak
09:09.30BountyWhich means you're a creeper... creepin in the irc
09:09.32CryptRatIs there a way to get a game to skip foerward 30 seconds?
09:09.40Bountylawl?
09:09.56Vexalpeople need to stop making fun of blondes and women.  it's really bad taste to make fun of retarded people.
09:10.21BountyCryptrat
09:10.26Bountyi find out what you need to do that
09:10.28Bountyyou need one of these
09:10.30Bountyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ujYdi3EO2o
09:10.55BountyNot only can you get a game to skip forward 30 seconds but im pretty sure you can do the same in reverse
09:10.56SixenBounty, you were in War2 Beta?
09:10.57SixenORLY?
09:11.07Bountywas there actually a War2 Beta?
09:11.19Sixenyes
09:11.22P_R_DeltoidSixen.
09:11.23BountyThen yes
09:11.25P_R_DeltoidYou know me, right
09:11.27P_R_DeltoidRIGHT?
09:11.32SixenOf coruse I know you, Deltoid
09:11.32P_R_DeltoidDO YOU REMEMBER ME SIXEN
09:11.36P_R_DeltoidTell them
09:11.44P_R_DeltoidThe boat times. Tell them about the boat times.
09:11.49Sixenlol
09:12.10SixenDeltoid was one of those newbs who went afk for months after the game wsa released.
09:12.11SixenOWUT!
09:12.43BountyI wonder how many of the people in the IRC would respond if i beeped them
09:12.49P_R_DeltoidYeah :<
09:12.54Bountylets try it
09:13.02P_R_DeltoidI give up really easily. The people doing really cool stuff were all so much smarter than me
09:13.07Sixen:P
09:13.09P_R_Deltoidit's daunting, when all I really want to do is triggers
09:13.13Skizotnoobs
09:13.18P_R_DeltoidIf you can't be the best, give up and do something else.
09:13.21P_R_DeltoidAnd then do it better.
09:13.27Sixenlol deltoid...
09:13.43P_R_DeltoidI only do things I am inately good at. I don't have time to practice or learn.
09:15.18Motive_WINNERI went AFK
09:15.24Motive_WINNERbut I was awesome post-release
09:15.24Motive_WINNER:D
09:15.25Motive_WINNERand beta
09:15.26Motive_WINNER:D
09:15.38BountyGrum Hati A1win Abstruse airtonix avogatro Bounty (lol) Buze cheekything cintiq computerpunk cryptrat curt' off dashkal deathnight114 dekar demo donkalypso fisker gnafoz gohla grim001 harl hp-x arth1as hunter_killers hyarion IcE^ jademussreg jamesobscura_ JManV Jygga La0fer Lilianna m4ng3 Matt438 Motive_winner mrop nesetalis olphar P_R_DELTOID purl raydenuni repo saeis scytheblade1 shawnrawr sirdemon skittles skizot stewox stragus t
09:15.45Hati?
09:15.46Dekarhai
09:15.47Motive_WINNERwut
09:15.47Bountythels twiner vexal wihl
09:15.50BountyHAI GUYS
09:15.53Dekarsecond :/
09:15.57Nesetalis...
09:15.59BountyI beeped u
09:16.01Bountylolol
09:16.02Dekarcurse you hati!
09:16.04Skizotyou fag.
09:16.04SixenBounty, don't do that >.>
09:16.07Hati??
09:16.11Skizoti will fuck you with a rake.
09:16.11Thelssighs
09:16.13Dekaryou answered faster than me
09:16.13Nesetalis-breaks Bounty's head off and uses his neck as a toilet- D:
09:16.15Skizotheads to the shed
09:16.16Dekar:[
09:16.22WihlBounty - I'll kill you
09:16.26DemoI was going to come in with a joke about my name
09:16.43Wihlwith LOVE! :3
09:16.46Demobut then I got confused when my name wasn't used
09:17.01BountyLets talk about Japan
09:17.10Dekarterrible, terrible damage
09:17.18BountySorry Sixen, i just had to know
09:17.23Bountyhow many of these people are real
09:17.26Bountyi got my answer
09:17.27Hatino
09:17.29Sixen>.>
09:17.33Hatiwe are all bots
09:17.37Hati~purl
09:17.37purli heard purl is a far prettier chatbot than you.
09:17.40Dekarbeeps
09:17.41Sixen:P
09:17.45WihlEarthquake uses Tsunami, its super effective
09:18.12*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
09:18.14BountyI think God caused that Tsunami just to shut down FFXIV
09:18.18MotiveMotive was originally a bot.
09:18.19MotiveTrue story.
09:18.21Bountyand it worked
09:18.24Bountyfor a week
09:18.29CryptRatThey should have used a Vaporeon. It has water absorb. :/
09:18.32Dekarim following a live ticker
09:18.34Dekarand its like
09:18.41Dekaroh god a quake
09:18.44Dekaroh god a tsunami
09:18.48airtonixumadbro
09:18.49Dekaroh god a nuclear meltdown
09:18.54Dekaroh god a vulcano
09:19.04Vexali hope the anime is okay
09:19.07airtonixit's simcity!
09:19.15Dekaroh god it moved the earth axis by 10 cm
09:19.25grim001oh god aftershocks
09:19.30Hatilike one said already 2012 beta testing
09:20.28Bountyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujSd9oxaxWY Japan Earthquake raw footage
09:20.51BountyAFFTERRRSHOOOCKKKK!!!!!
09:21.19Wihldid you guys see the first person video?
09:21.26Wihlhe's standing on some stairs or something
09:21.37Wihlthats the scariest video so far i think
09:28.23Dekarlink
09:42.48*** join/#sc2mapster Shadoooow (tekoppar@c-6598e455.45-2102-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
09:46.25*** join/#sc2mapster Twiner|home (~Twiner@c-98-229-148-216.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)
09:53.25grim001so, who wants to guess how long it takes my to enumerate 215 files split into 8 subdirectories and containing over 50,000 lines of code, sort all of the requirements, delete all of the whitespace and comments, and merge them all together into an output file?
09:53.47Dekar10 minutes to write a tool that does it for you
09:54.03grim001yes, of course I am talking about doing that manually
09:54.48Dekarthats not your full time occupation? :D
09:54.54Dekardeleting whitespace
10:00.49grim001good luck writing the tool in 10 minutes
10:02.21*** join/#sc2mapster Xaragoth (~name@p5DCC03D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
10:17.33Vexalhello.
10:18.05*** join/#sc2mapster Buze (~BubuzePow@roe35-1-78-231-170-70.fbx.proxad.net)
10:19.19*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
10:32.54*** join/#sc2mapster Agouti (~Agouti@121-79-23-49.bb.ispone.net.au)
10:33.02Agoutiholla
10:36.13*** join/#sc2mapster temhawk (~temhawk@unaffiliated/temhawk)
10:36.42Motivegrim: how goes it? :)
10:37.14grim001did you read the backlog?
10:37.45Motive215 files split into 8 directories?
10:38.33Agoutiwha?
10:38.36grim001yes, there will be an option to utilize subdirectories in case you like more structure for your .galaxy files than lumping them into one folder
10:39.01Motiveah, nice :)
10:39.16Agoutiany explanations for the ignorant ?
10:39.17Agouti;)
10:39.39Motivehes working on a super sexy galaxy preprocessor
10:39.51Motiveto make us galaxy scripters happy and stuff
10:39.52Agoutipreprocessor?
10:39.59Agoutioptimization
10:40.08*** join/#sc2mapster Computerpunk_ (~Computerp@85.186.122.45)
10:40.08Agoutior code obfuscation
10:40.16grim001either
10:40.24grim001those would both be useless reasons for a preprocessor
10:40.35grim001*neither
10:40.57Agoutiwaits...
10:41.29Motiveyou're thinking too small
10:41.34Motivegrim's going hardcore
10:41.35grim001it's to add/fixed things that are required for galaxy to be a reasonable language to script with.
10:41.38Motivefuckin' structs and pointers
10:41.44grim001yeah right
10:41.50grim001well
10:42.02grim001I might be able to add structs and function pointers at some point.
10:42.06grim001because they are simple.
10:42.25Motivewell anything is an improvement right now :)
10:42.28Agoutiit still has to convert it to natural galaxy, though?
10:42.33grim001of course
10:42.43Agoutiisn't it more just an abstraction layer, then?
10:43.00grim001in the same way that C++ is an abstraction layer for binary
10:43.08Agoutinot really the same
10:43.17grim001that's a joke
10:43.23Agoutias galaxy is not compiled
10:43.28grim001i guess you dont get it though
10:43.28Agoutiat least, we can't compile it
10:43.42AgoutiI can understand the idea, I think
10:43.50Agoutiadding more features into galaxy
10:43.59grim001i'm saying that galaxy is unreasonably lame to code in
10:44.11grim001and I'm going to make a usable language out of it
10:44.19AgoutiI think pre-processor is not the correct term
10:44.32grim001I'm not altering the language itself... much
10:44.39grim001it's not a compiler
10:44.40Agoutiit's adding features
10:44.45Motivepre-processor is the correct term
10:44.47Agoutiwhich are not native
10:44.49Agoutibut emulated
10:45.05AgoutiI would call it more an extension
10:45.11Agoutilike you have for PHP
10:45.23Agoutithough even that isn't quite correct
10:45.35Agoutias it's not adding anything to the interpretor
10:46.29AgoutiI guess pre-processor is correct
10:47.16Motiveextension would imply it's actually working with the language
10:47.31Agoutimmhmm
10:47.35Agoutiany chance of variable length arrays?
10:47.42Agoutithat would make me happy indeed
10:48.12*** join/#sc2mapster Deaod (~Deaod@p5B39F490.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:48.16Agoutithough it would probably need to actually store it as a string or something
10:48.23Motiveno, strings are bad
10:48.35Motivestrings want to rape your children
10:49.06Motivethe key is just building upwards
10:49.13Agoutisc2 doesn't support any other run time defined variable size variable type
10:49.16Agoutiafaik?
10:49.33Motivethe original C++ could be expressed in C using a pre-processor
10:49.44Motivethe original C could be expressed in some other lower level language using a pre-processor
10:49.45Motiveetc
10:49.45AgoutiI haven't been motivated to do anything outside the trigger editor as of yet
10:49.49Motiveexcept we're doing reverse
10:49.50Motivebuilding up
10:50.00Motiveand we don't have dynamic allocation, but we have a hack to do similar things
10:50.17Agoutioh?
10:50.35*** join/#sc2mapster Dynast (~Dynast@66.185.76.209)
10:52.02AgoutiOK, don't feel you need to express any of it
10:52.17AgoutiI can always download it when it's released
10:52.21AgoutiI suppose
10:52.28Motiveessentially
10:52.41Motivegrim's designing his own language, but defining it very similar to galaxy, to make his life easier
10:52.44DynastOhhidere.
10:52.45Motiveand then building his language, in Galaxy
10:52.49DynastWhoops, wrong nickname.
10:53.00ReactorexBetter.
10:53.10Reactorexhas reclaimed his nick! Reactorex has a name. Woo!
10:53.12Agoutiinstead of making macros?
10:53.36Motivewell galaxy has no macros
10:53.45Agoutiwell, I meant more
10:53.51Motivesort of
10:54.00Motiveit's like if I wanted to make my language have
10:54.04Motivesupport for stuff like:
10:54.05Agoutias you would do macro's or classes in a OOP frame of mind
10:54.06Motiveint i = 0;
10:54.07Motivei++;
10:54.11Motivenow i is 1
10:54.14Motivegalaxy doesn't have i++
10:54.20Motiveso it'd cross-compile to galaxy as:
10:54.22Motiveint i = 0;
10:54.23Motivei += 1;
10:54.43Agoutia macro preprocessor would replace i++; with the native equivalent
10:54.54Agoutii=i+1; or whatever
10:54.55Motiveexcept it's not really macros
10:55.00Motivebecause it's more advanced than that
10:55.05Motivesupporting more than just little things like that
10:55.24Agoutiso it is working in effect as an abstraction layer?
10:55.33Motiveyes you could say that
10:55.50Agoutiit's running as an interpreted language, built in galaxy
10:55.52Motiveex: you could have a "function pointer" in galaxy with triggers, bools, and building your own stack frame
10:55.56Motivebut that's a huugggggggggggggge pain
10:56.09Agoutias long as it's reasonably optimized
10:56.16Motiveso have the preprocessor handle all the building of the stack and triggers and stuff for you
10:56.19Motiveand write like a sane coder
10:56.42Agoutian interpreted language built inside an interpreted language sounds a bit inefficient
10:56.45Motiveno
10:56.51Motiveit's not an interpreted language inside an interpreted language
10:57.01Motive(not that something like that hasn't been done sort of)
10:58.15Agoutido we know for certain if galaxy is compiled at run time?
10:58.19Motiveyes
10:58.38Deaodprocessing shit like i++ correctly is far more complex than you might think
10:59.00Motiveyup
10:59.04Motiveconsider for example
10:59.09Motiveint foo(int x)
10:59.10Motive{
10:59.17Deaodespecially if you support preincrement and postincrement
10:59.19Motivereturn x - 1;
10:59.19Motive}
10:59.24Motiveint a = 2;
10:59.31Motivefoo(++x);
10:59.31Shawn|RawrI'm a pretty lady
10:59.39Motiveif you just use a macro you'll make it into
10:59.44Motivefoo(x+=1)
10:59.45Motivewhich will fail
10:59.57Agoutiif the macro was that simplistic, yes
11:00.16Agoutihowever it wouldn't be quite that dumb, I would think
11:00.36Deaodx=a+++4*++a
11:00.40Deaodpreprocess that.
11:00.53Agoutiwho said it was easy?
11:01.03Motivethe point is a macro is blind to the situation it's in
11:01.09Motivea pre-processor is intelligent
11:01.19Motiveknows what scope it is, if it's in a method's parameter list, etc
11:01.31Motivea pre-processor will handle the abstract syntax tree correctly
11:01.35Motivewhereas a macro just sees a text file
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11:02.09Deaoda+=1;
11:02.17Deaodtmp1=4*a;
11:02.28Deaodtmp2=a+tmp1
11:02.33Deaoda+=1;
11:03.14Deaodand then x=tmp2;
11:04.21Agoutiwaits for the punch-line
11:05.13*** part/#sc2mapster temhawk (~temhawk@unaffiliated/temhawk)
11:05.25Motivepunch line: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
11:05.26Motivedone
11:05.35Agoutii get jokes
11:05.42Deaodthis wasnt one.
11:05.57Agoutithanks for the update
11:06.52Agoutianyway; sounds like a rather ambitious project
11:11.59Deaodsay, wasnt there a typedef statment in galaxy?
11:12.15Deaodhmmmm
11:12.33Deaodthat thing may come in handy when optimizing
11:14.32Deaodanswer: yes, there is.
11:16.07Deaodand its just an alias.
11:16.13Deaodthis is awesome.
11:16.31Motiveyup I use it to clarify some types now and there
11:16.42Motivedefine player as int
11:16.47Motivemakes things cleaner sometimes
11:17.01Motivevoid kill_player(player plr)
11:17.11Deaodyeah, but you can also abuse it like "typedef int I;"
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11:17.21Motiveplr is still an int, and player is just more descriptive for a strictly typed language
11:18.14Vexalhttp://forums.sc2mapster.com/development/data/19597-allowing-any-player-to-access-a-shop-not-just-its-owner/#p5
11:18.20Vexalanyone??!??!?! this is driving me nuts
11:18.25Deaodgreat when writing an optimizer.
11:18.36AgoutiI still don't want to know what an dynamic array of function pointers would look like post-preprocessor
11:18.37Grumnuts with wheels? epic :D
11:18.56Deaodnow if youll excuse me, ill go update the grammar file for galaxy
11:19.05Vexalor post pre post preprocessor postprocessor
11:19.28Agoutiif you want to be silly
11:19.30Agoutiyes
11:19.42Vexali don't want to be silly.
11:19.44Vexali'm apathetic.
11:19.54Agoutithen no
11:20.16Agoutier
11:20.40Agoutiinteract.share abilities are really simple?
11:20.51Vexalwhat
11:20.56Vexalthen why doesn't it work
11:21.05AgoutiI'm guessing because you did it wrong
11:21.12Vexalbut i didn't do anything
11:21.13Agoutiit's just an ability
11:21.15Vexalyeah but
11:21.17Agoutiwith type
11:21.19AgoutiInteract
11:21.20Vexali just put down the building that blizzard
11:21.22Vexalmade
11:21.25Vexali didn't change anything at all
11:21.27Agoutimaybe make one yourself
11:21.29Vexalwhy
11:21.30Agoutijust a thought...
11:21.31Vexalthere's already one there
11:21.36Vexalno that's a waste of my time.
11:21.42Agoutibecause obviously the one that is already there isn't working
11:21.43AgoutiDUH
11:21.50Vexalyes
11:21.53Vexalthat's why i'm asking
11:21.56Vexal"why doesn't it work?"
11:22.56Agoutibecause it doesn't HAVE a share
11:22.58Agoutiyou
11:22.59Agoutineed
11:22.59Agoutito
11:23.00Agoutimake
11:23.03Agoutia share ability
11:23.06Agoutilike I was saying
11:23.32Vexalwhat's that
11:23.48Agoutia share ability? what it sounds like - an ability which shares control
11:24.01Vexalgo on.
11:24.21AgoutiAbility
11:24.22Agoutitype
11:24.24AgoutiInteract
11:24.29Agoutiauto cast
11:24.42Agoutiand it will work.
11:25.00Agoutiwith Sahre Control
11:25.05AgoutiShare Vision flags
11:25.15AgoutiFieldMinion Egg Share
11:25.16AgoutiStats - FlagsAuto Cast, Best Unit, Exclusive, Share Control, Share Vision
11:25.27Agoutiwith Auto Cast Filters
11:25.31AgoutiAuto Cast Range
11:25.32Agoutiset
11:25.33Agoutiofc
11:26.00Vexaloh
11:26.03Vexalthere are flags
11:26.11Vexalsee i didn't take the initiative to read any of the options for the ability
11:26.14Agoutiif you don't already
11:26.25Agoutiview in table mode
11:26.35Agoutienable all the options except for Raw
11:26.37Agoutiacross the top
11:26.43Vexalno i found it
11:26.44Vexalthanks.
11:26.59Agoutiweird, I thought the shop had it
11:27.05Agoutihad to click through to see it didn't
11:27.05Vexalit has the ability
11:27.10Vexalbut the flags were not checked
11:27.33Agoutiit's good for to have a separate Shop - Share ability
11:27.38Agoutigood form*
11:28.13Agoutiso you have Shop - Share, Shop - Buy, Shop - Pawn
11:28.14Agoutior w/e
11:28.35MotiveAnyone good with 3d geometry here?
11:28.42Vexali am
11:28.42MotiveNeed a little help with roll, pitch, and yaw in SC2
11:28.54MotiveTrying to rotate a unit using libNtve_gf_SetRotation()
11:28.57Agoutithe Exclusive flag means that, in theory, when items are bought from the shop, they go to the unit owned by the player who bought them
11:29.09Motivethe params are forwardX, forwardY, forwardZ, upX, upY, upZ
11:29.20Motiveso given params: yaw, pitch, and roll, I should be able to generate those
11:29.32Motivehttp://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/tutorials/12512-how-to-change-a-units-yaw-and-pitch-with-code/#p1
11:29.38MotiveI found that for roll yaw and pitch
11:29.40Motiveroll is missing
11:29.43Agoutiotherwise what often happens is if a unit gets there first, followed by a unit from another player, everything bought by the second player goes to the first
11:29.57AgoutiExclusive helps minimize this
11:29.59*** join/#sc2mapster deathnight114 (~chatzilla@c-98-247-52-158.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
11:30.35*** join/#sc2mapster Sevenix (pheonix@c-83-233-145-142.cust.bredband2.com)
11:31.10Vexalforward is the vector in the direction you're facing, and up is the vector pointing up?
11:31.40MotiveI assume so. That would make sense
11:31.49MotiveI haven't slept in a day so I'm bad at this especially now. xD
11:32.04Agoutimaking sense isn't always a good marker for GE
11:33.01Motivehehe
11:33.07Motivewell it's more of a math problem really
11:33.08Vexalokay
11:33.13Vexalroll just changes the up vector
11:33.16Vexalnot the forward vector
11:33.25Vexalare you using y to point up, or z to point up?
11:33.25Agouti^
11:33.47MotiveThat I have no clue about
11:33.55Motivethis is just standard SC2 model trickery, so I assume Z
11:34.01Vexalokay well
11:34.05Vexalif you look at a circle
11:34.16Vexallet's say roll is your angle you want to rotate
11:34.28Vexalreplace the y value of the unit circle with your z
11:34.48Vexalyou want to compute the up vector from the roll, correct?
11:34.52Vexalin that case, you should use tangent
11:34.55Motiveyes
11:35.00Vexalarctangent
11:35.25Vexalwait
11:35.30Vexalthat migh tbe wrong.
11:35.57Vexalyou want to use sin and cos, sorry
11:36.15AgoutiI was going to say
11:36.25Agoutibut my brain isn't working well atm
11:36.36Vexalsin(angle) = z
11:36.50Vexalcos(angle) = x
11:37.16Vexali think
11:37.18Vexaltry it
11:37.25Motivehehe, so the values will be
11:37.25Motivefixed upX = Cos(roll);
11:37.25Motivefixed upY = Tan(roll);
11:37.26Motivefixed upZ = Sin(roll);
11:37.38Agoutier
11:37.53Agoutiat least 1 line there is wrong
11:37.55AgoutiI think
11:38.00Vexalwhere'd you get the value for y
11:38.03Vexalroll shouldn't change y at all
11:38.05Agouti^
11:38.07Vexalsince you're rotating about the y axis
11:38.11MotiveMmk
11:38.15Agoutiisn't Y straight forward?
11:38.17Agoutialways?
11:38.18Vexalyeah
11:38.21Vexalit's the direction you're looking
11:38.58Motivetesting this now with upY = 0
11:39.01AgoutiI think I need to pause music for this
11:39.19Shawn|Rawrneed moar cowbell
11:39.40Agoutiso
11:40.16AgoutiupX/upY/upZ set the unit vector, in terms of global co-ords, which the units local Z axis should point towards?
11:40.34MotiveYes
11:40.36Agoutilikewize forwardX/forwardY/forwardZ are for the units local Y
11:40.41Agoutilikewise*
11:40.48Motivewell it did something, not sure the right thing. :|
11:40.52Motivein fact, I think not
11:40.57Motiveb/c I tested it on a phoenix and battlecruiser
11:41.06Agoutiit's going to be a little more complicated than that
11:41.09Motiveand I could not get it to do that nice "roll" effect they do when inputting values 0-360
11:41.12Agoutithen
11:41.22Agoutino because every XYZ
11:41.23Agoutiof both
11:41.35Agoutiwill be dependant on yaw, pitch AND roll
11:41.48Motiveah
11:41.55Agoutiimagine if pitch is set to 90 degrees, so it's pointing up
11:42.02Agoutithen it will be rotating around global Z
11:42.15Motiveah
11:42.22Motivethis gamedev.net forum says this might be the right way
11:42.23Motiveup.x = cos(yaw)*sin(pitch)*sin(roll) - sin(yaw)*cos(roll)
11:42.24Motiveup.y = sin(yaw)*sin(pitch)*sin(roll) + cos(yaw)*cos(roll)+
11:42.24Motiveup.z = cos(pitch)*sin(roll)
11:42.26Motivefor the up vector
11:43.07AgoutiI am deeply unsure... I should know, I had to do this stuff but it's been like 6 years :s
11:43.15MotiveYeah haha
11:43.40Motivetrying that formula now
11:43.44Vexalwell
11:43.48Vexalthat one might assume y is pointing up
11:44.02Vexalor maybe it doesn't
11:44.03Vexalwho knows
11:44.09AgoutiI can't think in 3d atm
11:44.56Agoutibut that doesn't look right
11:45.00Motivewell that did something interesting for me, but not what I wanted. xD
11:45.17Agoutieach up.x etc term should have 3 terms
11:45.24Agoutiwith a nice pattern to it
11:46.17Vexalgoogle "3d rotation matrix"
11:46.23Agoutiup.x = cos(yaw)*sin(pitch)*sin(roll) - sin(yaw)*cos(pitch)*cos(roll)+sin(yaw)*sin(pitch)*cos(roll) or something
11:46.30Agoutidon't copy that
11:46.34Agoutican't think properly atm
11:47.43Agoutibasically what you are doing is going from spherical to cartesian co-ords
11:47.44AgoutiI think
11:48.26Agoutiexcept radius == 0
11:48.28Agoutier
11:48.28Agouti1
11:49.39Motiveso frustrating
11:49.41Motivewish I paid attention now
11:49.41MotiveLol
11:50.00Agoutiugh, I think I did pay attention
11:50.36Agoutibut I always forget everything from more than 2 semesters ago
11:50.48Shawn|Rawrnevermind
11:50.54Shawn|Rawrwrong channel
11:51.00Shawn|RawrYour map is killing my computer
11:51.03Shawn|Rawr:D
11:51.06Shawn|RawrI'm not insane
11:51.12Agoutiyou are
11:51.16Agoutijust differently insane
11:52.11Agoutithis is actually quite distressing
11:52.20Agoutithis should be trivial
11:53.00*** join/#sc2mapster Computerpunk (~Computerp@85.186.122.45)
11:53.59Motiveat least the forward part is right
11:53.59MotiveLol
11:55.44Agoutithis is almost as annoying as my mystery bug
11:56.56Agoutiwhere SC2 did weird things with a players alliance settings when they disconnected
11:57.14Agoutiin the replay, even as that players cam, there was still no vision
11:57.35Agoutiso players were allied, had control
11:57.37Agoutibut no vision
12:00.49*** join/#sc2mapster Clord (~Clord@62-165-186-65.bb.dnainternet.fi)
12:01.03Clordmeh
12:01.12Clordpatch patch patch! please come out ^^
12:03.17*** join/#sc2mapster Computerpunk (~Computerp@79.117.226.5)
12:08.40Clordlol that fan art program agreement stuff
12:08.51Clordit seems they have also rights to "moral rights"
12:08.52ClordXD
12:09.08AgoutiO_o
12:09.20Clordyeah that part truly escapes me
12:09.25Clordwhat the hell they mean with that lol
12:10.10Abstrusewhat it is
12:10.12Abstruseis it not?
12:10.16Abstrusefuck shit up
12:10.18Abstrusepro bono
12:11.17Clordit is just overly protective wording
12:11.22ClordUSA laws are crazy like that
12:11.54Agoutiwe reserve the right to do anything but merely only choose to do what we originally intended
12:13.27Clordholy shit... theories that cannabis can cure cancer
12:13.29Clordlol
12:13.39Clordyeah
12:13.43ClordUSA laws are basically
12:13.47Clordwe can screw you over if we want to
12:13.51Clordand you must trust us
12:13.52Clordthat we don't
12:15.59Abstruseso stay in line
12:16.00Abstruse:D
12:17.29*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
12:21.17Clordit is nice how they prepare for 1.3.0 patch launch
12:21.23Clordand tell in few days warning that
12:21.28Clordyour game variants might fuck up
12:21.33ClordXD
12:21.54MotiveI hate geometry
12:21.55Motive:(
12:23.19Clordhttp://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1849935342
12:23.28Clord"re-publish" sounds bad XD
12:23.48Clorddo I need sit there and publish all 10 slots again
12:23.49Clordlol
12:23.53Clordhopefully not :)
12:26.01JManVi hope you hated on that second post
12:26.33JManVtotal troll post
12:26.38A1winhmm the short description of Armored Core fits almost identically to my map idea :P
12:26.50Clordto be honest
12:26.54Clordhe might be just so dumb
12:26.58Clordor did word it badly
12:27.06Clordgame variants is like less than minute to fix
12:27.18Clordbut makes it sound like entire map goes to trash bin XD
12:27.34JManVsecond reply, sorry
12:27.39Clordoh and there is that possibility that he has yet to publish his first map so he has no clue
12:27.42Clordoh :)
12:27.59JManVthe one about balance that's in a custom map thread
12:28.01Clordyeah those "people"
12:28.09Clordwho try to get attention for their demands with breaking rules intentionally
12:28.31Clordlike posting to wrong section
12:28.59*** join/#sc2mapster Computerpunk_ (~Computerp@79.117.227.233)
12:29.54Clordbtw... in EU side that game variant thing warning exist.. but nto on EU side.. not at least in similar section
12:30.06Dekargrim001 why dont you just use andromeda instead of writing your own preprocessor ?
12:30.55grim001andromeda is horrible
12:30.58grim001and doesn't work
12:31.05Dekarworks fine for me :3
12:31.16Motiveandromeda is feature bloat
12:31.25grim001then you obviously aren't actually using it in the context of developing a map
12:31.31grim001it works to screw around with experimentally
12:31.41grim001try to actually use the needed features to make something and it will break
12:31.47Dekarlike
12:31.49Dekarclasses?
12:32.03Dekarwith references to other classes
12:32.10Dekarclasses all around
12:33.11ClordI have sometimes wondered if it is worth it to get also US account..... it has lately felt like more and more "yes"
12:33.11ClordXD
12:33.35grim001like anything andromeda says it can do
12:33.35Dekarit is worth to annoy blizz more regarding cross realm support
12:33.38grim001it breaks when you actually use it
12:33.52grim001including fundamental features like importing stuff, initialization order, etc
12:33.53Agoutipublishing multi-realm is so clunky
12:34.00AgoutiSEA/NA is easy enough
12:34.05Agoutibut then EU and the rest
12:34.12Agoutineeding to playin the registry
12:34.13Agoutietc
12:35.06AgoutiI didn't want to buy extra accounts and thus support the dodge multi-region stuff
12:36.22Vexalyou do need an account for each region
12:36.43Agoutinot if you have friends with accounts ;)
12:36.54Agoutiand don't care if the map isn't under your name
12:37.57Clordit does not let me have two keys in same account... it insist to sell me EU one
12:37.58Clordlol
12:38.10Agoutier
12:38.16AgoutiI have multiple keys...
12:38.30Agoutiif you want to buy a NA account for your EU
12:38.41Agoutiyou have to log in using us.battle.net
12:38.50Agoutiand it will let you
12:39.10Agoutier, rather, a NA game copy
12:39.28Agoutisince accounts in themselves are region independent
12:39.41Agoutionly the games attached to them are region dependent
12:40.03Clordoh it does but it is 59,99 dollars XD
12:40.42Motivehmm
12:40.45Motivevexal/agouti: does this look right?
12:40.47Motivefixed forwardX = Sin(yaw);
12:40.47Motivefixed forwardY = -Sin(pitch) * Cos(yaw);
12:40.47Motivefixed forwardZ = Cos(pitch) * Cos(yaw);
12:40.47Motive
12:40.47Motivefixed upX = -Cos(yaw) * Sin(roll);
12:40.47Motivefixed upY = -Sin(pitch) * Sin(yaw) * Sin(roll) + Cos(pitch) * Cos(roll);
12:40.48Motivefixed upZ = Cos(pitch) * Sin(yaw) * Sin(roll) + Sin(pitch) * Cos(roll);
12:40.52MotiveFound that on another site
12:40.53Clordooh it translates to about 43 euros :)
12:40.55Motivehttp://www.songho.ca/opengl/gl_anglestoaxes.html
12:40.57Agoutier
12:40.59Agoutino
12:41.02Motive:(
12:41.25Agoutisec let me try and fire up a few extra neurons
12:41.46Agouti*sounds of distant machinery spinning up*
12:42.01Clordhehe agouti... your black market stash of keys? XD
12:42.06Clordlol
12:42.12Agouti>_>
12:42.21AgoutiI would love
12:42.36Agoutia button to just be able to publish to everywhere
12:42.40ClordI'm just curious how you have extra keys
12:42.57Agoutiwell, I bought SEA
12:43.05Agoutiand blizzard then gave us free NA
12:43.15Agoutibecause the aus/sing pipeline is so rubish
12:43.19ClordI think that offer has expired..........
12:43.21Clordlol
12:43.28Agoutiprobably
12:43.39Clordwhat still screws over many of people who buy that now
12:43.41Agoutinot many play on SEA though
12:43.49Clordyeah I have heard
12:43.54Clordmy THE Card Game was like top map of there
12:43.56Clordbecause lack of good maps
12:43.57Clordlol
12:44.05Agoutiblizzard only set the servers up there because aus hosting is more expensive
12:44.17AgoutiI had mine as top for a while, alternating with SOTIS
12:44.18Agoutilol
12:44.25Agoutiit's pretty devoid of good maps
12:44.50Clordanyways... I'm about to buy SCII US account someway >_>
12:45.56Clordwhy I feel like I play to blizzard's 1.3.0 business pna
12:45.57Clordplan
12:46.24Agoutiwhy 1.3?
12:46.58Clordit sparked my interest to spread my maps without using others to publish them
12:47.13Clordlet just say I kinda lost contact of such people quite fast...
12:48.52Agouti3 is the limit for me
12:49.10AgoutiI'm prepared to publish to NA & EU, and SEA just because it's popular there
12:49.20Agoutibut RUS, SA, CH, etc
12:49.32Vexalrussia has internet?
12:49.44Agoutilol
12:49.47Clordlol
12:50.02Agoutirussia still has nukes >)>
12:50.05Agouti>_>
12:50.40Agoutialso, russia has been the home of everything illegal on the internet for as long as I can remember
12:50.41Agoutiso
12:50.42Agoutiyes
12:50.51*** join/#sc2mapster Tobin_ (45497832@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.73.120.50)
12:51.12Tobin-Will someone help me test (NA)?
12:51.38Agoutisure
12:51.46Tobin-Cool, thanks.
12:51.54Tobin-Meet you in sc2mapster private channel.
12:52.20Agoutigah
12:52.21Clordgreat gotta download this US client
12:52.30Clordrussia has nukes
12:52.34Clordbut them getting off launch pad
12:52.37Clordis not guaranteed
12:52.38ClordXD
12:52.41Agoutiyou don't have to download it
12:52.42Agoutialso
12:52.43Agoutihaha
12:52.44Agoutitrue enough
12:52.53Agoutiif you are just wanting to publish to NA
12:52.54Clordlol got some better trick?
12:52.55Clord^^
12:53.02Agoutiyou can get by with registry editing
12:53.09Agoutiif you want to PLAY
12:53.17*** join/#sc2mapster JManV|Work (~jvanderbe@209.254.253.130)
12:53.20Agoutiyou can make a copy of the sc2 folder and use a re-localizer
12:59.06*** join/#sc2mapster Stragus (~maloeran@glvortex.net)
12:59.15Abstruseanyone wanna game?
13:01.14Clordcurious what happened
13:03.21Clordthat tool worked
13:03.24ClordI can play on US realm
13:03.30Clordalso publishing works
13:04.20MotiveWooo
13:04.22MotiveGot it working, Agouti
13:04.23MotiveFigured it out
13:04.24MotiveHaha
13:04.27MotiveIt's so simple (not the math)
13:04.34Agoutilol
13:04.40Agoutishare with the rest of the class?
13:04.42MotiveTHe reason we weren't getting any results at all is b/c Blizzard made it so the Up vector doesn't take effect for some reason
13:04.43MotiveUNLESS
13:04.51Motiveyou get rid of the original actor
13:04.52Motivecreate a new one
13:04.53Clordanyways.. it is time to publish my work :)
13:04.55Motiveand rotate the new actor
13:04.55MotiveLol
13:05.04MotiveI now have a rotated 45 degree roll void ray
13:05.05Motiveand it's all
13:05.08Motive"wtf I'm sideways"
13:06.28ClordTHE Card Game by Clord
13:06.32ClordI need to rename it
13:06.37Clordas that one dude published it for me
13:06.38Clordlol
13:11.07Clordgametway down
13:11.09Clordyeah right
13:16.02Clordlol it seems that I might end up needing to make mod files smaller just for US side
13:16.10Clordfacepalm XD
13:17.41*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
13:25.16ShadoooowAnyone here know what settings Blizzard use for the terrain textures?
13:28.48ClordI wonder... if I need pick US locale via editor when I publish directly there.... nah I pick it just to be sure
13:37.41Clord"THE Card Game (Official)" is now finally released in US...... >_>
13:39.58JManV|Workhttp://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/3/9/
13:41.09AbstruseIn a ring under the supposed place on earth where Sodom supposedly used to stand, archaelogists found glass that suggests of an atomic explosion. AFK
13:44.29JManV|Workfully updated, clord?
13:44.32*** join/#sc2mapster Motive_ (~motive@c-68-36-169-50.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
13:45.56Clordhehe yeah
13:46.06ClordI have now US account so I personally uploaded few maps for 1.3.0
13:46.37JManV|Worksweet
13:46.44JManV|Workwe actually played it last week on map night
13:46.46Clordyes.. that over 20mb monster map is now in US indeed
13:46.56JManV|Workwe tried cardcraft first, but it bugged out like what
13:47.07JManV|Workeach round lasted <10 seconds
13:47.19JManV|Workalso, the lobby dialogs for cardcraft are hideous
13:47.33JManV|Workso we figured we'd try out yours for some contrast
13:47.46JManV|Workit was pretty fun, but you could tell it was way behind on updates
13:48.17Clordhehe.... "THE Card Game (Official)" has 63 different cards
13:48.18Clord:)
13:48.25Clordoh and custom music what can be turned on and off
13:48.52JManV|Worki've been thinking of buying an EU account myself
13:49.20Clordoh and other maps I uploaded but not is known much even europe yet
13:49.21Clordis
13:49.22Agouti^
13:49.29Agoutibut
13:49.30Clordshinigami note, gaia wars and fortress fight
13:49.33AgoutiI ended up just borrowing one
13:49.45Agoutican someone tell me what page island defense is on?
13:50.34JManV|Workpage 1 in NA
13:50.55Agoutiya I play on NA
13:51.14AgoutiI meant EU
13:51.15Agoutisorry
13:51.20JManV|Workah
13:51.22JManV|Workno idea
13:52.39JManV|Workheh. seconded:  http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/2/28/
13:53.08Clordto be honest... Cardracft SC was horrible even before it got bugged XD
13:53.47Clordhonestly who in their right mind chooses custom music from 8 bit era to play in loop
13:54.02SkizotI DO!
13:54.35Agouti^
13:54.49Agoutianyone over 24 I think :D
13:55.00Agoutiwho played those 8 but games as a kid
13:55.21ClordI have nothing against 8 bit music but.... if you gonna try to please players with that... better choose something "fitting" from there
13:55.22ClordXD
13:55.42Clordnot something what makes players run to the hills
13:56.08AgoutiI haven't played it... I don't really have much time to play these days :(
13:56.36Clordthat map once came to custom map list in EU.. went pretty high
13:56.38Clordthen suddenly fell down
13:56.54Clordand after that..... disappeared
13:57.01Agouti?
13:57.05Clordyes......
13:57.07Agouticardcraft?
13:57.19Clordplayers hated cardcraft SC due horrible music choices etc
13:57.23Clordit drove people away
13:57.31A1winhmm... I'm trying to figure out how to implement my mech upgrade system: I think the players should only allowed to switch "big parts" when in base, but they'd also have smaller addons they could swap on-the-fly from their inventory
13:57.59A1winso in base, the player would see the whole upgrade GUI, and outside base only the addon upgrade GUI
13:58.30Clordhopefully "fun or not" button is smart enough to see past join game list
13:59.05JManV|Workhey! lets not make fur of 8bit music!
13:59.08A1winbut since this doesn't really support drag & drop, I'm not sure how to make the upgrade system... maybe add a dropdown list of available items next to each upgrade slot so you choose it from there instead from inventory?
13:59.23JManV|Workalthough, i did add an option so you can switch to normal sc2 music
13:59.31A1winor rather a pop-up list that appears when you click that upgrade slot
14:00.45JManV|Workyeah, i like the pop-up list idea
14:01.00JManV|Workunf, dialogs can't be truly modal
14:02.33Clord:)
14:03.04Clordmap has been sitting in their server year... nobody has ever hosted it
14:03.07Clord-> fun or not picks it
14:03.19Clordafter that -> damn this game is fun/sucks
14:03.45Clord-> fun map? it gets to fight top dog title
14:04.36A1winhttp://a1win.pp.fi/ss/sc2/mech/Screenshot2011-03-14%2016_02_04.jpg current inventory... wondering if I should make a scroll bar for it or just limit the number of different items to what fits in the list
14:04.50Clordhowever entire damn system relies that people use it
14:04.52ClordXD
14:04.59Clordto that... >_>
14:05.01A1winthe downarrow button is "drop" and the repair is "use" (will change that)
14:05.31A1wingreen name = selected item, the medic has cursor on it so it shows the button there
14:06.33A1winthe buttons follow the selected item
14:07.05A1winand if the last item on list is dropped, the buttons move to the 2nd last, otherwise they stay where they were, and if the list becomes empty, they disappear
14:07.19A1winand you can deselect by clicking empty space in the inventory dialog
14:07.52JManV|Workwhat's with the black bar?
14:08.06JManV|Worknvm
14:08.10A1winwhat black bar?
14:08.39JManV|Workimage was glitching
14:08.42A1winheh
14:08.51JManV|Workthought you actually added a black bar to hide something :)
14:09.40A1winI was thinking to make the use button icon and tooltip change depending on what item is selected (and hide it if the item can't be used)
14:10.03A1winchange the icon to represent the use purpose rather than what the item is
14:10.04JManV|Workdammit.  how do i get rid of this stupid poll on my thread?
14:11.52A1winsomewhere in the edit page probably ;p if it even can be deleted
14:12.48JManV|Workthere's a checkbox for show poll on page, its unchecked
14:12.54JManV|Workthe polls still on my page
14:13.03JManV|Workif i clear the fields, it tells me they're required
14:13.17JManV|Worki basically have to put another poll up instead
14:13.57A1winI'm thinking I'll make the "base" just as a space ship that isn't physically in the map, and just show a static scene when the player goes there like Hyperion in singleplayer
14:14.11A1winand the players enter the map with shuttles
14:17.32A1winuh, actually it's not a good idea to even allow swapping the addons on-the-fly since they include things like troopers... would be weird to just put those to your inventory and then swap them back to the mech
14:18.14A1winso maybe I don't need to allow any changes to the mech while playing, and then bring up the whole upgrade gui up when returning to base
14:18.50*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
14:20.00*** join/#sc2mapster Gohla (~Gohla@53543CFB.cm-6-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
14:20.01JManV|Workyeah, doesn't make sense to swap on the fly, really
14:21.37A1winif you die, a medivac comes to pick up the pieces and flies you back to the ship... and after a while you somehow get back, but not sure yet what the punishment should be
14:22.33JManV|Workheh
14:22.54AgoutiXP and money are the usual costs
14:23.06Agoutirandom items never works, it's just annoyinh
14:23.10A1winmm..
14:23.14A1winbut so are xp and money :P
14:23.23Agoutibut at least they are predictable
14:23.26A1winbut money would make sense though
14:23.30A1winto repair the mech
14:24.16A1winthough what if you don't have any? ;p
14:24.53JManV|Workthat's always the problem with true sims
14:24.54A1wincould be "we'll the next x credits you gain" even if you did have money o:
14:25.15JManV|Worklike if you made a realistic racing career sim, you could easily bankrupt yourself
14:25.19*** join/#sc2mapster Shawn|Rawr (~chatzilla@ip70-189-159-47.lv.lv.cox.net)
14:25.31JManV|Workmaybe you restart if you go broke?
14:25.43JManV|Workand make it so its fairly easy to generate enough money for repairs?
14:26.09A1winwell why not just paying over time like I said? :x
14:26.20A1wincan even add an interest rate for it ;D
14:26.38JManV|Workif they go far enough in debt, they may want a restart
14:26.53A1winmm true
14:27.12A1winbut there should probably be some low-risk way of making money
14:27.14JManV|Workyou could give them the option
14:27.28JademusSregI awaken.
14:27.37JManV|Workor just do what you said, but have an option somewhere so they can restart if they really tank themselves
14:28.19A1winmmh they could just drop all their items, restart and pick them up again :P
14:28.35A1winso better make it so that there's no need for restarting
14:28.52A1wina game where you can end up doing worse than you were when you started would really suck ;p
14:29.01JManV|Workyeah
14:29.17A1wincould just have a cap on the debt
14:29.30A1winso it doesn't matter if you die a lot of times in a row
14:29.46JManV|Workppl might exploit debt. just keep that in mind
14:30.02A1winhow exactly?
14:30.23A1winmmh right infinite lives :P
14:30.26JManV|Workgaining exp while not having to worry about cash, for example
14:30.47JManV|Workif they can find someway to spend all their cash before a battle, keeping them in debt constant
14:30.59JManV|Worknot saying your idea necessarily supports that
14:31.09JManV|Workbut more that you need to be aware that people will try
14:31.25JManV|Workshit, i'd try just to see if i could
14:31.40A1winmmm
14:32.13JManV|Workbut i'm like that :P
14:32.21A1winmmh though since it's a co-op, even having to wait for a little while before respawning might be enough for a "punishment"
14:33.05Clord>_>
14:33.11Clordsoon TM
14:33.18JManV|Workhttp://i56.tinypic.com/34euc2f.png
14:33.22Clordtake an guess between monday-friday XD
14:33.31Clordfor patch to go live to live servers
14:33.31JManV|Workcompare to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jqUMlyvhcU
14:33.32Clord^^
14:33.36JademusSregNicer Jman.
14:33.49JManV|Worknicer than?
14:33.49A1winhehe
14:33.51Clordthat dude is creepy!
14:33.52ClordXD
14:33.59JademusSreg*Nice
14:34.08JManV|Workoh, ok :P
14:34.19Shawn|Rawrstetmann was born to be Dr Pokey Man
14:34.19Clordhe will have ehem "pokemon fun"
14:34.22Clordin back room
14:34.45JManV|Workthose two links actually look eerily similar
14:34.55JademusSregI'll show you MY Pocket Warrior, hurr hurr hurr.
14:35.03JManV|Workexcept oak and stetmann are facing opposite angles
14:35.24A1winyou should fix that
14:35.25JManV|Workyeah, cuz "pocket monsters" isn't sexual at all :P
14:35.37JManV|Workyeah, i could easily turn stetmann
14:35.51Clordsay hello to my little friend
14:35.52Clordlol
14:35.53Shawn|RawrTurn him gay
14:35.53Clordban
14:36.03*** join/#sc2mapster RipperRoo (~RipperRoo@pC19F759A.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:36.55Shawn|RawrI wonder if we post rodrigo's comics on bnet, if we could get everyone to hate him
14:37.03Shawn|RawrLike.. a lot
14:37.08A1winso... since this is co-op and players can come and go between games, the world probably needs to be very non-linear... maybe have some kind of enemy bases that keep respawning after being destroyed or something X_x
14:37.19JManV|Workdoesn't everyone hate him now?
14:37.23JademusSregShawn, yiou'd probably just get yourself banned.
14:37.25Shawn|RawrI do for sure
14:37.32JManV|Workexcept for ulosethegame, who has some strange man-crush on him
14:37.44JademusSregYeah, that's kinda weird.
14:37.51Shawn|RawrI'd just link to the mapster thread
14:37.59JademusSregAh.
14:38.04JManV|Workyeah, i was kinda creeped out by how much on rodrigo's nuts he was
14:38.07JademusSregThat should work.
14:38.19A1winor since the players travel by air, maybe have the world as "islands" of enemy bases so that you just pick one and get transported there, do your stuff and then get back, and the place respawns after a while
14:38.43JademusSregSpeaking of which, I hope we play another LotR so I can fuck it up again.
14:38.52Clordpokemon series is not known from their difficulty
14:38.58Clordexpect when people tell how easy it is
14:38.59ClordXD
14:39.19Clordboss fight.. first move... win
14:39.20ClordXD
14:39.43JManV|Workyeah, its more of a grind game really
14:40.00JademusSregBecause the game is a grind, interspersed with tactical decisions.
14:40.30A1winI'm wondering if I could give this mech game a bit of an "arcade" feeling, so that fights aren't just about numbers
14:41.00JManV|Workarcade usually means stuff like powerups
14:41.15JManV|Workpickups and spots of interest on the map
14:41.18A1winwell.. that I already have, just not instant power ups :P
14:41.25Clordthat is like game deisgned from 80'
14:41.26ClordXD
14:41.46JManV|Workwhat is?
14:41.51JManV|Workpokemon?
14:42.09Clordnah your opinion :)
14:42.19Clordnowadays powerups is no longer "arcade" specific
14:42.24Clordand arcade means also fighting games
14:42.25JManV|Workoic
14:42.29Clordtypically in past
14:42.41JManV|Workhmm. good point
14:42.57A1winmaybe the map is divided into a lot of small areas where you move a linear path through enemies, loot some stuff, maybe beat a boss if I get inspired enough to make them, then return to the base ship, and pick another area to go to (or the same one)
14:42.58JManV|Workit might have a more arcade feel with something like a boss bar
14:43.14A1winso each area would be like an arcade level
14:43.17JManV|Workalthough, you're thinking coop
14:43.25Clordarcade games still exist as people like to pay from playing with PC what looks like arcade machine
14:43.26JManV|Workmy brain is stuck in PvP for some reason
14:43.29A1winhehe
14:43.50JManV|Worki see mechs, i think PvP.  i can't help myself
14:44.13JManV|Workmechs are like the utlimate arena fighters
14:44.14JademusSregLinear paths within a non-linear system. =D Not just multiple endings, oh no, multiple lines of gameplay.
14:44.31JademusSregOf course, that's where procedural generation comes in handy.
14:44.54A1winmm
14:44.57JademusSregIf where talking about divergent settings for events.
14:45.04JademusSreg*we're
14:45.25A1winyeah sure ;p randomness is fun
14:45.39JademusSregNaw. Randomness is less than impressiveness.
14:46.04JademusSregAny half-compentent programmer can do random generation.
14:46.09A1winhehe
14:46.34A1winI didn't mean just any kind of randomness :P
14:46.57A1winobviously it needs to be done well
14:47.07JademusSregMake your own RNG, control the seeds, you've got a lasso on the pseudorandom beast. =D
14:47.24A1winwhy'd I need to control the seeds?
14:47.49JademusSregWell, that depends on your needs.
14:48.26A1winor why need for an own RNG to begin with ;p
14:48.39A1winit's not the numbers that matter but what they do
14:49.02A1winas long as they keep changing to something else pretty much every time
14:49.19JademusSregIf the seed bears a relationship to some repeatable parameter of the system, x y in the case of a super map, it makes sense to control them, so to speak, to establish that relationship.
14:49.47A1winyeah in that case ;x
14:50.04JademusSregIt's the novelty of the repeatability that I value. =)
14:51.47A1winwell I don't need to restore the areas for this map so no need for that
14:51.59A1win(if I'll do it like that, that is)
14:52.36A1winnot sure how arcade-like a game can be with RTS movement controls though
14:52.42JademusSregLast night, to help myself sleep, I was thinking of every configuration of chess in a multidimensional phase space. It was soothing.
14:52.53A1win;p
14:53.17JademusSregI fell asleep right after I started to consider the time component as a dimension.
14:54.40JademusSregAnyway, I'm pretty sure RTS controls are about as un-arcade as it gets.
14:55.00JManV|Workheh
14:55.09A1winone thing that might save some of the feel is instant abilities... just hit the hotkey and something happens
14:55.41A1winespecially if it affects the environment somehow... or maybe throws enemies around or something
14:56.04JademusSregYeah, people love that (plus a ~125ms< delay).
14:56.10A1win:P
14:56.52JademusSregIf people play on or make maps for battlenet, they either accept the latency, or they can whine about it forever in the pit.
14:57.03A1winmm...
14:57.29JademusSregSo I think we're all used to it by now.
14:57.31JademusSreg=D
14:58.12JademusSregHow about destructable environments? That sounds more like PvP, though.
14:59.45JManV|Workthat would be fun
14:59.50A1winblink is a very arcadeish ability  :P
15:00.01JademusSregBlink is always awesome.
15:00.08JManV|Workmm... jump jets :P
15:00.19JademusSregI believe every map should have special movement powers.
15:00.53JademusSregJump Jet Troops look exactly like Reapers. =P
15:00.59JManV|Worki will have the "fly" ability  :P
15:01.09A1win;x
15:01.14A1winand teleport!
15:01.21JManV|Workah yes
15:01.25A1winsurf?
15:01.30JManV|Workofc
15:01.31JademusSregThat flying better be limited by encumberment and have an energy cost Jman.
15:01.43JManV|Workwhat?
15:01.43JManV|Workno
15:01.46JademusSregOhwait
15:01.48JademusSreg=)
15:01.54JManV|Workyeah, it's just a teleport to city
15:02.09JManV|Workalthough i think it does use PP
15:02.10*** join/#sc2mapster RyanWin (46f69c18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.246.156.24)
15:02.12RyanWin#join scu
15:02.14RyanWinerr
15:02.15JademusSregI didn't realize you were talking about your map.
15:02.16JManV|Worknot that it's very relevant
15:02.22JademusSregFly wasn't capitalized.
15:02.27JManV|Workheh
15:02.48JManV|Workyou were saying how every map needs special movement abilities
15:03.07JManV|Workmine are a little outside what you were thinking tho, i think :P
15:03.23A1winI think the loadable/unloadable mercenaries will be fun... need to pay attention when to unload them so they don't get killed
15:03.25JademusSregYeah, but that's fine. Will you have a bicycle?
15:03.31JManV|Workyeah i think so
15:03.46JManV|Workbut i've had problems with making units too fast in combination with WASD
15:04.01JManV|Workbike is a fairly fast unit
15:04.26JademusSreg=]]
15:04.46JademusSregThat doesn't really capture a big toothy grin.
15:04.59JManV|WorkWASD gets ... less smooth ... when movement speed is over about 7
15:05.23JademusSregSet position or order?
15:05.30JManV|Workorder
15:06.08JademusSregThe order distance needs to scale with the speed.
15:06.21JManV|Workyeah
15:06.33JManV|Workthe order distance can't really get any larger than it is
15:06.37A1winmmf now I'm stuck with my plans, can't decide what to implement next... or not sure if I even have anything to implement yet since so much is still undecided
15:06.42JManV|Workotherwise he will move around things
15:06.46JademusSregAh.
15:06.51JademusSregGood point.
15:06.57A1windo a check for things ;p
15:07.00JManV|Work0.5 is about the max
15:07.13JademusSregCheck for pathing cost to target?
15:07.23A1winif pathing cost between points > distance between points
15:07.23JademusSregThat sounds like it might be an expensive op.
15:07.27JManV|Workthat could work maybe
15:07.33JademusSregBut worth a try.
15:07.34JManV|Worki'd think it would be
15:07.47JManV|Workesp if the order refresh needs to be often as well
15:07.53A1winyou're underestimating modern cpu power :P
15:07.57*** join/#sc2mapster Gohla (~Gohla@53543CFB.cm-6-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
15:08.19JManV|Workjust because i have 6 cores doesn't mean everyone does :P
15:08.20A1winSC2 is making loots of pathing checks all the time when ordering units to move
15:08.31JademusSregNaw, expensive relative to other ops, like getting and setting.
15:09.00JademusSregNot expensive relative to the capabilities of the CPU.
15:09.06JManV|Workobv the engine uses that function anyways when is issues a move
15:09.11A1winhmm another thought
15:09.17A1wingive a series of 0.5 orders in a straight line
15:09.23A1wininstead of just one very far
15:09.37JManV|Workhmm
15:09.42JademusSregSame issue.
15:09.45JManV|Worklike issue two orders instead of one?
15:09.46JademusSregPotentially.
15:09.53A1winmm
15:09.54JademusSregIf you cease input, it keeps moving.
15:09.58JademusSregLike in Earthbound.
15:10.00A1win...but it'd draw the queue on the screen
15:10.10*** join/#sc2mapster Gohla (~Gohla@53543CFB.cm-6-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
15:10.11JManV|Worki'm wondering if there's some other unit property at play, taking a look
15:10.20A1winJademusSreg, no, then it'd replace them all with stop
15:10.38JManV|Workyeah, i issue an explicit stop when they lift the key
15:10.39JademusSregIf you send the order, yeah. =)
15:10.52A1winwell why not ;p
15:11.10JManV|Workoh, yeah. my loop actually ends :P
15:11.14JManV|Workyour WASD loop doesnt
15:11.20JademusSregNaw, I'm pretty sure it just regresses the problem, doesn't solve it.
15:11.42JademusSregYou'll still need to do a pathing check.
15:11.56JManV|Workyeah
15:11.58A1winactually you don't need pathing check, just check if the points are pathable
15:12.10A1winthat's a very cheap operation :P
15:12.28JManV|Workesp considering the distance
15:12.43JademusSregIt's also less than optimal; it could return an undesired value under certain circumstances.
15:12.49JManV|Worki'm pretty sure that funciton is probably like O(d^2)
15:12.57A1winjust starting from the player towards move direction: while point is pathable, extend order distance
15:12.59JManV|Workoir even O(d^3)
15:13.23A1winhmm then it won't take units into account
15:14.03JManV|Workpoint being, i can think of a thousand reasons why pathing calculations would get dramatically more expensive the further the distance
15:14.22A1winyeah but checking if a point is pathable is not a pathing calculation
15:14.24JManV|Workat 0.5, it should be a fairly quick test
15:14.40JManV|Workeither way would get expensive over long distances
15:14.42A1winit's just checking if you can go through the point or not
15:14.46A1winno :P
15:15.13A1winit's pretty much just one simple if-condition per point
15:15.21A1winI mean
15:15.29JManV|Workoh, i see what you mean
15:15.32A1winit just checks if the point is filled with pathing or not
15:16.06JManV|Workinteresting
15:16.20A1winand that could be extended by also checking if there are units near that point, so it would also "collide" with them
15:17.33A1winlike "if you can move 0.5 units, add 0.5 to the order distance; redo from start until order distance <= N"
15:17.57*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
15:18.25JademusSregThought you knew, Jman.
15:19.55JademusSregnative int   PointPathingCost (point p1, point p2);
15:19.55JademusSregnative fixed PointPathingCliffLevel (point p);
15:19.55JademusSregnative bool  PointPathingPassable (point p);
15:19.55JademusSregnative bool  PointPathingIsConnected (point p1, point p2);
15:20.09JademusSregThose are the point pathing natives.
15:20.10JManV|Worki did. i just misunderstood
15:20.30A1winprobably because I was talking about "pathable" instead of passable :P
15:20.31JademusSregPointPathingPassable would probably be like O(1).
15:21.23*** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@e176224094.adsl.alicedsl.de)
15:23.10JManV|Workyeah
15:23.22*** join/#sc2mapster Zoxc (Zoxc@ti0128a380-dhcp0824.bb.online.no)
15:23.34JManV|Workwhereas pathability cost could easily be O(d^2)
15:23.43A1winhow about things like supply depots rising/lowering in a sequence and other things like that o:
15:24.03JademusSregA1, hwaht?
15:24.04JManV|Workhuh?
15:24.12JManV|Work^ what he said :P
15:24.27A1windynamic environment for the mech map
15:24.47JManV|Workah
15:25.11JManV|Workthat would be intersting to have walls that close off
15:25.30JademusSregThat just sounds sensless, and it would look kinda tacky.
15:25.34A1winhehe
15:26.46*** join/#sc2mapster wOlfLinG (~wOlfLinG@cpc3-nrte21-2-0-cust330.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
15:26.47A1winenemy waves?
15:26.59JManV|Workyeah, i'm still thinking PvP arena
15:27.03JManV|Worki can't help it
15:27.06A1win:P
15:27.10JManV|Workyou say mech: i think PvP arena
15:27.22A1winwhere does that come from?
15:27.28A1winI haven't really even played mech games
15:27.29JManV|Worki dunno
15:27.34A1winone must fall? ;D
15:27.34JManV|Worki just always though it would be fun?
15:27.49A1winhehe
15:27.58*** join/#sc2mapster Maged (~chatzilla@74-207-56-148.nat.luther.edu)
15:28.24JManV|Workalthough my first mech game was the original Mechwarrior
15:28.24A1winenemy waves would mean making decisions whether to progress or wait for a while longer, perhaps recovering from some stronger wave (regenerating energy and shields mostly)
15:28.38JManV|Workwhich was not PvP at all
15:28.44JManV|Workvery mission based
15:28.51A1winmmh
15:29.06JManV|Workand then there was Battletech, which was basically an RPG
15:29.17JManV|Workbut it did have an arena
15:29.29JManV|WorkPvC arena, but fun nonetheless
15:29.51JManV|Worki guess i've never seen mechs as that practical for actual warfare
15:30.03A1winhehe
15:30.12JManV|Workbut if they existed, i bet there'd be arena battling for them
15:30.47A1winI don't really care for them but SC2 just very fitting setting for this, and will make into a bit different rpg than the usual
15:31.41JManV|Worki've always been a huge fan of mechs
15:31.57JManV|Workas impractical as they may be, they are awesome
15:32.18A1winhmm would be cool if the Predator had burrow, could use those as "companions" then
15:32.24A1win(or burrow animation, rather)
15:32.42A1winotherwise they'd just die quickly
15:32.45JManV|Worktanks could fight alongside mechs as well
15:32.51JManV|Workbut they'de be scaled different
15:33.24JManV|Workbanshees as combat helicopters/vtols could also have a place on the battlefield, imo
15:34.10A1wintanks wouldn't really add much to the gameplay since they'd just be the same as mechs other than looking different and a bit different stats
15:34.32JManV|Workalthough, going back to the practicality of mechs, in a world of primarily warfare, mobility like combat copters would be the key to victory
15:34.49JManV|Workporimarily mech warfare
15:35.24JManV|Workalthough the overall resiliance of a mech would be its strength
15:35.30A1winair units would be just extra damage, or a big risk if the enemy also had anti-air stuff
15:35.33JManV|Workwereas copters would be pretty squishy
15:35.52A1win(in terms of gameplay)
15:36.00JManV|Workwould you really build a mech without AA capability?
15:36.21A1winI mean air units fighting with the mechs, not against them
15:36.30JManV|Worki actually think that's one of the dumber elements of sc2, imo
15:36.40A1winhehe
15:36.43JManV|Workwho would design units that don't shoot up at all
15:36.48JManV|Workin a few specific cases, sure
15:36.56JManV|Workbut there are just way too many of them
15:37.15JManV|Worktanks would have guns or something.  not a lot of damage to air, but /some/
15:38.05A1winI'll probably just copy some existing abilities for the mechs and then tweak them later and maybe add some new ones if I feel like it
15:38.10JManV|Workthe inability to shoot down is even stupider, imo
15:38.14A1winforce field is cool too
15:39.07JManV|Workgonna allow firing at missles?
15:39.31A1winhmm
15:39.35JManV|Worknot sure how well the system would support that
15:39.43JManV|Worktheroretically it could be done
15:39.45A1winhow fun would it really be if they'd shoot at them automatically ;p
15:39.59A1winand if not automatically, how'd you target them :P
15:40.01JManV|Workdepends
15:40.10JManV|Workmight be more of a balance thing than anything
15:40.25JManV|Workif missles end up being really powerful, that could be a way to balance them some
15:40.37JManV|Workperhaps specific weapons only
15:40.45A1winshields will probably be an important mechanic
15:40.46JManV|Workchaff pods or something, perhaps
15:41.10ClordI found shields handy
15:41.11Clordin TCG
15:41.13JManV|Worklimited ammo, fire automatically, destroy incoming missiles
15:41.20JManV|Workjust throwing out ideas
15:41.21Clordadds depth nicely :)
15:41.51JManV|Worki'm actually suprised nothing in SC2 has chaff pods
15:42.54Clordme want patch ^^
15:42.56JManV|Worknot even as like a BC campaign upgrade
15:43.01A1winmmh I'm imagining a level that has lots of ramps, up and down, and you push forward while waves of enemies keep coming at you
15:43.10Clordme caveman
15:43.25JManV|Workare waves of enemies really realistic?
15:43.32JManV|Workshouldn't it have a more strategic feel?
15:43.45A1winlike how?
15:43.49JManV|Workwhere you're either assaulting a base or defending one
15:43.56JManV|Workand the units are fixed
15:44.25A1winso you just kill one, wait for recovering your health and then kill another one? :P
15:44.39JManV|Workwell, they would come after you
15:45.12A1winas waves? ;p
15:45.29JManV|Workwell, you'll do what you want, i just don't think that wounds very realistic
15:45.38JManV|Workit works for zerg
15:45.43JManV|Worknotsomuch for mech, imo
15:45.48A1winif it was realistic, all the enemis would attack you at once and kill you
15:46.12A1winerr... the mechs are not the enemy
15:46.33JManV|Workwell, maybe with infantry
15:46.53A1wincould even just have the zerg as enemies
15:46.59JManV|Workbut it takes time to build or mobilize armored units, it don't see much reinforcement happening in a single conflict
15:47.21A1winI'm not talking about waves of mechs
15:47.23JManV|Workeven then, calling it "reinforcements" versus "waves" actually makes a pretty big difference
15:47.25A1winthe players are the mechs
15:47.39JManV|Worki'm saying tanks even
15:47.44JManV|Workor whatever
15:48.07A1winwell I was thinking of zerg as the enemy when thinking of that level idea
15:48.14JManV|Workair units could mobilize quickly, however, and could easily make sense to come in waves
15:48.17JManV|Workoh
15:48.30A1winjust didn't call them zerg because I thought it wouldn't really matter what they are :P
15:48.39A1winbut I guess it does ;p
15:48.40JManV|Workwhy doi zerg always have to be the bad guys?  :P
15:48.54A1wincould have different enemies in different levels
15:48.59JademusSregIf they look like zerg, they better be zerg. =)
15:49.04A1winif I divide it to lots of small levels
15:49.18JManV|Workzerg make sense as waves, absolutely
15:49.40JManV|Work"
15:49.53A1winjust not completely sure how it'd turn out to "grind" linear pieces of level
15:50.25A1winsince usually in rpgs you can go back and forth
15:50.41A1winwell I suppose there could always be a return to base button
15:50.44JManV|Workpersonally, i like the mission structure
15:50.58JManV|Workwhere you go out on missions that you picked ahead of time
15:51.03A1winmmh
15:51.22JManV|Workand the skill level of the mission is fixed, but there are many mission options
15:51.33JManV|Workand the payout is based on the skill level
15:51.40A1winmaybe
15:51.53JManV|Workand you could have different kinds of missions, defend, assault, all-out warfare
15:52.00A1winbut will there be enough room for missions to cover the entire "leveling curve"
15:52.01JademusSregArmored Core. =)
15:52.03JManV|Workothers as well, maybe a convoy protect
15:52.10A1winwithout always having to go through them in the same order
15:52.15A1winyeah I was reading about armored core a bit
15:52.25JademusSregEscort missions in armored core were hell.
15:52.26A1winseemed very similar in concept
15:52.30JManV|Workyou could level up misisions ad infinitum
15:52.49JManV|Workand the missions themselves could be random
15:53.01JManV|Workyou could use a random seed, so they're always the same for one player, but random
15:53.14A1winwhy do they need to be the same?
15:53.26JManV|Workso he goes back to base and the same missions are there, but there's a new one now because he just beat one
15:53.33JManV|Workmaybe they don't need to be the same
15:53.41JManV|Workmaybe someone else took those missions while he was gone
15:53.49JManV|Workand they're just random every time
15:54.32JManV|Workyou'd prolly want them to stay the same while you're at base, tho
15:55.22A1winyou mean like returning to base and then continuing the same mission?
15:55.47JManV|Workno, i mean like return to base, check missions, upgrade mechs, check missions again and they should be the same
15:56.00A1winoh
15:56.26A1winthat doesn't need saving a random seed though :P just not randomize them every time you reload the mission menu
15:56.27JManV|Workalthough, you can factor time for upgrades, repair if you wanted to
15:56.33A1winbut only after one's been either abandoned or completed
15:56.52JManV|Workyeah, random seed wouldn't be required
15:57.03JManV|Workagain, i'm just throwing out ideas
15:57.09JManV|Workpick and choose whatever works for you
15:57.12A1winthough if a mission can be reloaded by abandoning it, that could be abused
15:57.49JManV|Workyeah, i'm thinking if you go off on amission, you come back to a new set of missions altogether
15:57.51A1winor maybe it could be just discarded in the base without even starting it
15:58.20JManV|Workthere could also be a cost associated with failing a misssion
15:58.21A1winmmh should the players always be on the same mission or could they be doing separate ones
15:58.42JManV|Workthat's up to you
15:58.57JManV|Workit would probably be easier to have them all work together
15:59.01A1winmm...
15:59.12A1winand can just start your own server if you want to play alone :P
15:59.24JManV|Workyeah
15:59.33A1winmight need a voting system to decide which mission to pick then
15:59.50JManV|Workyou might have to worry about varied skill levels, tho
15:59.53A1winor promoting someone to a leader
16:00.02*** join/#sc2mapster Griffith` (~Zeta@CPEc0c1c013ce86-CM0013718d3546.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
16:00.06A1winplayer skill or character skill? ;p
16:00.12JManV|Workcharacter, primarily
16:00.16A1winmm...
16:00.22JManV|Workyou can't really account for player skill
16:00.26A1winyeah
16:00.43JManV|Workmaybe scale the mission options for the players involved
16:00.52JManV|Workfrom relatively easy to moderately hard
16:01.40A1winI think the characters shouldn't have as big skill difference as in traditional RPGs even with high level differences
16:01.45JManV|Worksuch that a beginner doesn't end up getting slaughtered immediately
16:02.06JManV|Workyeah, weak mechs typically have the advantage of speed
16:02.15A1winrather let the higher "level" players just have more choices of what kind of mech they are playing, and obviously a bit stronger attributes but not overly so
16:02.27JManV|Workyeah
16:03.37JManV|Workin most mech games, tho, there's a pretty big power delta between big and small mechs
16:03.56JManV|Workbut there are some options to compensate for that
16:04.00A1winI'm not even going to add "experience" as an element, but was thinking to have a hireable technician in the mech who slowly levels up some part(s) of the mech while you battle, configuring your weapon system or figuring out how to make your shields better based on data he gets in real situation etc.
16:05.09JManV|Worklarger weapons have less ammo, gnerate more heat, slow down the mech, and have limited range, for example
16:05.15A1winso you'd hae a pilot and a technician, which you can replace by new ones in base for money
16:05.43JManV|Workwhat about a pilot and gunner?
16:05.50JManV|Workor even multiple gunners?
16:05.59A1winmmh
16:06.16JManV|Workperhaps too complicated to be worth the effort
16:06.22A1winyeah
16:06.35A1winI just erased some other crew options from my notes a while ago :P
16:06.37JManV|Workalso, a little less "personal feeling"
16:06.51JManV|Workyou really want to feel like you're in control of it all
16:07.03JManV|Worksuspension or reailty is good in some instances
16:07.28A1winpilot could define the portrait and sounds of the mech... though I'm not sure how easy it is to change the sounds?
16:07.47JManV|Workactor events, me thinks
16:09.53JManV|Worki can't render a model to a dialog, can i?
16:10.13A1windon't think so, but you can create a portrait and place it on a dialog
16:10.32JManV|Worka portait?
16:10.38A1winoh, nvm
16:10.46JManV|Workoh, you mean an image?
16:10.56A1winportrait model window
16:11.06JManV|Workoh
16:11.23JManV|Workyeah, i need the option to select one of six models for your hero
16:11.47JManV|Workbut they're all civilian models, there are no icons
16:11.56JManV|Worklooks like i'll have to generate the icons
16:12.19*** join/#sc2mapster Dynast (~Dynast@66.185.76.209)
16:14.24JManV|Workthis model: colonist_male_teen_03.m3 ... has a moustache
16:14.41JManV|Worka thick, full moustache
16:15.09A1win:x
16:15.43JManV|Workand why are they all bald?
16:16.00JManV|Workoh well. i'll work with what i got
16:19.07*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
16:20.34JManV|Worki'll just have a little boy with a moustache, is all :P
16:20.48JademusSregHaha.
16:21.13JManV|Workthey sure grow up quickly, don't they?
16:21.18JademusSregYes.
16:21.59A1winmaybe he used a moon stone or something on them
16:22.11JManV|Worki guess i could not use that model, but then everyone would have the same model, and that sounds boring
16:22.46A1winthe models have variation in them too
16:22.58JManV|Workyeah, there are 3 variants
16:23.06A1win:P
16:23.10JManV|Workwell 4, but too look identical
16:23.10A1winthe female models have more
16:23.20JManV|Workonly 3 variants there, too
16:23.22*** join/#sc2mapster DonKalypso_ (~chatzilla@user-105n0q0.cable.mindspring.com)
16:23.25A1winreally?
16:23.33JManV|Workyeah, i was suprised myself
16:23.52A1winat least they have random colors for each variation then, or something
16:23.56ClordI want the patch
16:23.57Clordnow
16:23.59JManV|Workthe female variants are mostly just hair color too
16:24.02Clordthat's an order
16:24.04Clord^^
16:24.13A1winthere should be more than 3
16:24.27A1winoh hmm
16:24.28JManV|Workanyways, the option to choose boy or girl is obv
16:24.40A1windid you look at the civilians and the colonist models both?
16:24.40JManV|Workbut i figured i'd let ppl pick their variant, too
16:25.03JManV|Workwhat civilian model?  all the civilian units point at the colonist model
16:25.26A1winoh :P
16:25.26JManV|Workyeah
16:25.26JManV|Worki just learned this myself
16:25.30JManV|Worki was hoping to have like 5 variants each
16:25.44A1winbut I could swear I was able to get more than 3 different looking civilians when I placed them to the map
16:25.44JManV|Worklooks like i get 3
16:25.49JManV|Workwhich is workable
16:26.11Clordhehe
16:26.21Clordmaybe blizzard banned those variations
16:26.26A1windid you change their skin too? maybe that was what had the other variation
16:26.33JManV|Workhmmm
16:26.42JManV|Worki think you're right about the skin color
16:26.52JManV|Worki know i've seen a black one, and i'm not seeing him now
16:27.01A1winyeah I remember now ;p
16:27.13A1winthe variation changes the mesh variation
16:27.19A1winand then there's a skin option as well
16:27.25A1winwhich has like 3-4 different skins
16:27.30JManV|Workah
16:28.21*** join/#sc2mapster Demonette (b206f2b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.6.242.182)
16:28.29DemonetteUhm hi
16:28.34DemonetteSomeone here?
16:28.38Clordlol
16:28.43Clordwelcome to graveyard
16:29.19Demonettehere sometimes it's  really like an idle-yard
16:29.34JManV|Workhmmm
16:29.37A1win:P we've been talking for hours straight today
16:29.38JManV|Worknot sure how that works
16:29.58JManV|Workyeah, it's been pretty active today
16:30.03A1winI only know how to change it in terrain editor from the unit's properties
16:30.03DemonetteDoes someone know how to make custom error messages for abilities?
16:30.38Demonetteterrain? oO
16:30.56Demonettei mean like "must target a building" and stuff like that
16:30.57JManV|Workomg civilians have a lot of animations
16:31.04JManV|Worki'm gonna exploit those!
16:31.05A1winI was talking about civilian skins
16:31.05Demonettetrue
16:31.11DemonetteXD
16:31.14JademusSregHah.
16:31.19A1winif you look hard, you notice that my terrain editor line was before you asked you question ;P
16:31.27A1win*your
16:31.38A1winJManV|Work, they sure do ;p
16:31.47Clordpeople need to grow their funny bone or whatever
16:31.48*** join/#sc2mapster nicoli_s (~test@69.73.16.202)
16:31.51Demonettenot sure... i don't see your question XD
16:31.55JManV|Workterrain editor has only 3 variations listed
16:31.55ClordI was obviously being sarcastic towards demomnette
16:31.56Clord^^
16:32.04Demonetteas i join only a few minutes ago
16:32.16A1winJManV|Work, yeah.. then there's the other tab that has the skins
16:32.23Demonettei see
16:32.28*** mode/#sc2mapster [+o nicoli_s] by ChanServ
16:32.37A1winnot my question, yours ;p
16:32.45A1winnevermind
16:32.52JManV|Worko ic
16:32.56DemonetteoO
16:33.09A1winI don't know about the error messages anyway D:
16:33.46Demonetteawwwh... you are all as much help as everytime XD
16:33.52A1winuhh I've been lazy for a few days, the dishes are piling up...
16:34.00Demonette=P
16:34.09JademusSregWhat's up?
16:34.30DemonetteERROR !
16:34.39JManV|Workwow. that's actually more variants than i would ever need
16:34.43A1winhehe
16:34.56A1win3x4? :P
16:35.26A1winthe scientist model has the same animations as the civilian btw
16:35.29JManV|Workmore like 3x9
16:35.33A1winoo
16:35.42JManV|Workx2
16:35.47JManV|Workm/f
16:35.48Demonettehehe =D
16:35.50A1winmmm
16:35.56Demonetteyeah civilians are great
16:36.00JManV|Worki can't show all those on a dialog :P
16:36.12A1windropdown menus
16:36.14JManV|Worki guess i could if i filled the screen
16:36.21A1winoh you wanted icons
16:36.25JManV|Workbut i want visibility
16:36.35A1winwell make it step-by-step choice?
16:36.37JManV|Worki guess i could show the map through a dialog
16:36.44JManV|Workto show the unit
16:37.02A1winlike first you click m/f icon and then it shows the icons for that
16:37.15JManV|Workthat could work
16:37.50JManV|Worki dunno if i want to make that many icons tho :P
16:37.52A1windamn now I feel like your civilians will have more variation to them than my mechs
16:37.59JManV|Workheh
16:38.08JManV|Workand i only wanted a few :P
16:38.27JManV|Workbut more is better
16:38.30A1wina lot of them also have different looking portraits
16:38.32JManV|Workgives some variety
16:38.40A1winnot sure if all do though
16:38.41JManV|Workyeah, i've seen that
16:38.49JManV|Workbut i'm not sure those will ever be seen
16:39.04A1winwas just thinking you could use those as the "icons"
16:39.09A1winbut well
16:39.16A1winit wouldn't really represent what you'd actually get then
16:39.46JManV|Workwell, i could do like the SCU character selection
16:39.56JManV|Workor the character selection progammer made
16:40.14JManV|Workwhere it actually shows the unit through some dialog over map tricks
16:41.09JManV|Workwould be easier than up to 54 icons
16:41.18JManV|Workwell, not easier maybe
16:41.27JManV|Workbut might look better
16:41.46*** join/#sc2mapster depthsofchaos (~depthsofc@adsl084.adsl.hungarnet.hu)
16:42.02A1win:P if it was a gameboy game, I bet it'd be like "oh there you are, err is that you? *picture of a civilian* yes/no" no -> cycles through the pictures until you hit yes
16:42.29depthsofchaoshai, does anyone know the max lenght of a line in galaxy code ?:o
16:42.31JManV|Workyes, but i have much more screen space at my disposal :P
16:42.36A1winhehe
16:42.44A1winput the models in the map? ;p
16:42.45JManV|Worki don't have to force every gameboy limitation on my game :P
16:42.47A1winin a row
16:43.09JManV|Workyeah, i was thinking that too
16:43.19JademusSregdepth, I don't know.
16:43.23JManV|Worki think the priority right now if figuring out how to set the texture in the first place
16:44.09*** join/#sc2mapster slightlyrandom (~random@130.226.169.201)
16:44.29depthsofchaosi'm just making a small program to totaly scramble the source code of a map
16:44.38depthsofchaosi find thats the best protection right now :o
16:45.00JManV|Workscramble?
16:45.13depthsofchaosrename variables, remove lines, etc
16:45.18JManV|Workgotcha
16:45.42JManV|Workobfuscation is actually the lowest form of security
16:45.53depthsofchaoswhy?
16:46.26JManV|Workcuz it doesn't actually secure anything
16:46.40JManV|Workit just assumes (incorrectly) that the hacker won't find it
16:46.45JademusSregbbl
16:46.50depthsofchaosthats true but it would take you days to decode whats in there really
16:47.15depthsofchaosand no other way to protect the map anyhow :/
16:47.20JManV|Workthat said, i still think it's a decent idea
16:47.30JManV|Workbecause it can compliment other forms of security well
16:47.48JManV|Workbut they can always run the map
16:48.14depthsofchaoswell they run it but cant figure out which functions do the encrypting etc
16:48.24depthsofchaoswell they can but its hard
16:49.05depthsofchaosi looked into 3-4 maps with encyption and i could only break it cause they use obious naming
16:49.38JManV|Worki was thinking of building my encryption key in many different places across my map
16:50.21depthsofchaosyes that confuses a lot
16:50.41JManV|Workbut still, if you can get the end result of that key, all is for naught
16:51.59depthsofchaoswell i dont think a "hacker" with the ability to figure it out would bother this much time :p
16:52.36JManV|Workhmmm... i can modify textures using the set model variant, but you set it with a string... and i don't know what that string would be
16:52.39Kuekenoh, you seriously underestimate the boredom of people...
16:52.47JManV|Workthey might very well for my game
16:53.03JManV|Worki'm building a pokemon game
16:53.10JManV|Workthere's a long history of hacking pokemon games
16:53.56JManV|Workfortunately, i don't have to deal with memory writers like pro action replay
16:59.48*** join/#sc2mapster TeddyTeddy (~Teddy@adsl-75-26-206-129.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net)
17:01.42*** join/#sc2mapster ckknight (~kvirc@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)
17:01.42*** mode/#sc2mapster [+o ckknight] by ChanServ
17:13.25*** join/#sc2mapster Gohla (~Gohla@53543CFB.cm-6-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
17:17.42Clordlike world map was not enough hard for performance
17:17.45Clordnow there is damn snow
17:17.46ClordXD
17:17.50Clordoops wrong chat
17:17.51Clord^^
17:19.01*** join/#sc2mapster axlyin2 (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
17:29.56JManV|Workthis model texture stuff kinda sucks
17:30.20JManV|Workits awesome that the option exists... i just can't figure out how to set it
17:39.08JManV|Workback off, i'm a scientist
17:39.17*** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (442d304d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.45.48.77)
17:39.22Bounty><
17:42.43A1winhmm.. how about the pilot is actually the player's character so you don't get to change that during the game anymore, but the technician can be changed
17:43.21A1winwould make more sense than just having a machine, and two hired people to operate it, and then some magical entity (the player) who gets all the money
17:43.44JManV|Workyeah, having the player be the pilot feels more personal
17:44.07JManV|Workyou could have pilot skills that have a small impact on battle, but you wouldn't want it to be too profound
17:44.16A1winyea
17:44.37A1winsome minor modifiers to some attributes
17:44.48JManV|Workyeah
17:44.58JManV|Workaccuracy would prolly be the primary
17:45.17JManV|Workand evade perhaps
17:45.31JManV|Workbut both would be most largely determined by the mech itself
17:46.00A1winis there some simple way to implement a hit/miss system?
17:46.10JManV|Workeffects can have chanced
17:46.13JManV|Workchances
17:46.18A1winah, right
17:46.29JManV|Workwith 1.3,effect chances can be upgraded
17:46.35BountyYou could do it via trigger A1win
17:46.51A1winthough it'd be almost the same as just adjusting damage on the long run
17:47.13JManV|Worki still have to play with effect chances some
17:47.15BountyYou can just have a trigger that rolls a die that determines hit chance
17:47.32JManV|Workattack animation should still fire, but impact animations should not
17:47.39JManV|Workdepending on how everything's set up
17:48.11A1winyeah well, I think I'll just take the easy route for a start and just adjust damage, movement speed etc. that already exist in the game :P
17:48.17JManV|Workbut it won't exactly continue moving to hit another target
17:49.21JManV|Workyeah, you can set weapon accuracy through their effects
17:49.32JManV|Workthen upgrade them for pilot skills
17:49.46Bountythis map looks amazing
17:49.47Bountyhttp://forums.sc2mapster.com/general/general-chat/19483-shaman-arena-looking-for-testers-alpha-version-ready/#p6
17:49.54BountyI wonder how he got the WoW models to look right
17:49.59Bountywith the sc2 textures
17:50.50JManV|Workdefine right
17:50.57JManV|Workbecause they look a little out of place, imo
17:51.05Bountyhow?
17:51.28Bountythe color saturation works pretty well with the models
17:51.44JManV|Worki dunno. they just don't match the theme somehow
17:51.59JManV|Worki pegged all the wow models almost instantly.  they stand out some.
17:52.26JManV|Workbut then i have a lot of out of place models, so i can't talk really :P
17:52.56Bountyim not saying u cant point out the WoW models
17:53.07Bountyi mean like the way the maps colors are
17:53.09Bountylooks better then most
17:53.31Bountyim assuming he just used color saturation
17:54.25A1winmmh might be a bit difficult to make the pilots so that there's not just one that's the best choice with such small adjustments
17:54.34JManV|Workwell, i still don't know how to set the model textures in data, but i can do it in triggers so i guess that's all that matters
17:55.26BountyModel Textures? You mean Model Variations or swapping the entire model for another on the fly?
17:55.49A1winmaybe just define the sounds and portrait based on the pilot and nothing else :P
17:55.53JManV|Workno bounty
17:56.05JManV|Workthere are model variations, and model texture sets
17:56.21JManV|Worknot many models use the texture sets, that i know of
17:56.26A1winlooked at both actor and the model in data?
17:56.27JManV|Workbut civilian does
17:56.34JManV|Workdidn't look at actor..
17:56.59JManV|Worki guess the problem is that it's hard to create an icon if i can't bring it up in the previewer
17:57.07A1winhehe
17:57.11JManV|Worki guess i could make a solid color backdrop in the terrain editor
17:57.18*** join/#sc2mapster Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-170-118-no35.tbcn.telia.com)
17:57.29A1winjust hide the terrain :P
17:57.45JManV|Workthen i might not grab black pixels
17:57.52BountySpeaking of Terrain
17:58.06BountyApparently Terrain Textures cause framerate issues in third person mode
17:58.29Bountyjust flat terrain will drop your framerate by like 20-30
18:01.30JManV|Worki think high rate of speed is part of your problem
18:02.19Bountynope
18:02.25Bountysame framerate if u stand still
18:02.30Bountyand just turn ur camera
18:02.38Bountyit drops 20-30 by just standing still lol
18:03.04Bountyand i tried hiding all terrain cells in the entire area just now
18:03.10Bountyand it STILL dropped
18:03.22Bountyso... that makes no sense :)
18:04.06JManV|Workhow many triggers do you have?
18:04.20Bountynot to many, let me check. I alrdy tried deleting all triggers
18:04.36Bounty512kb in triggers
18:04.47Bounty9 triggers
18:04.56Bounty299 actions etc
18:06.39Bountyi mean, cutting the draw distance to 50 helped
18:06.54Bountyby a draw distance of 75 should not make a 20-30 framerate differance lol
18:06.54Bountybut*
18:06.57JManV|Work50 is pretty massive
18:07.14JManV|Workmost 3rd person games, the unit can't see past like 10 anyways
18:07.17JManV|Workmaybe 20
18:07.19BountyDoodad Hunt had a draw distance of 10,000
18:07.27JManV|Workdear gods
18:07.35Bountyand it ran at like 120 fps
18:07.45JManV|Workapparently i'm polytheistic now :P
18:07.48Bountythat was before i knew how to make personal skyboxes for each player lol
18:07.49*** join/#sc2mapster Dynast (~Dynast@66.185.76.209)
18:07.57Bountyso 10k view distance was the only way i knew how to show the skybox
18:08.27Bountythose were hard times ><
18:08.58JManV|Workwell, if that's true, then there's something fundamentally different between the two
18:09.15Bountywell this map is 256x256
18:09.19Bountyalot bigger then Doodad Hunt
18:09.26Bountybut doodad hunt has like 2000 doodads
18:09.29JManV|Workah
18:09.32Bountythis has MAYBE 50
18:09.37Bountyi tried removing them all
18:09.40Bountydid nothing
18:09.46Bountydidnt even improve by 2 fps
18:09.54Bountythen i tried hidding all terrain cells
18:09.54JManV|Workwell, map size basically reduces the draw distance
18:09.56Bountydidnt do anything lol
18:10.05Bountyhmm?
18:10.06JManV|Workit can't draw past the edge of the map
18:10.15Bountyoh
18:10.17Bountyyeah
18:10.23JManV|Workso if you have a draw distance of 10k, but a map size of 64...
18:10.30Bountyyeah
18:10.30JManV|Workthe draw distance might as well be 64
18:10.39Bountywell it was bc of the skybox issue
18:10.43JManV|Workwell, diagonals
18:10.45Bountythe only way to show it back then was 10k view distance lol
18:10.54Bountyuntil someone discovered u can just use a dummy unit ><
18:11.14*** join/#sc2mapster pirate_ (8e018fe7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.1.143.231)
18:11.27Bountymy issue is, a draw distance of 50 does not show enough
18:11.36Bountylike... a sharp turn will just pop out of nowhere
18:11.37Bountylol
18:11.58JManV|Workyeah, with a racer you need to see the horizon
18:13.07Bountynow
18:13.15Bountysay i reeveal the entire map as explored
18:13.20Bountyand use fog of war
18:13.26Bountybut only have a draw distance of 50
18:13.29JManV|Workso i have a second flat tire in as many weks :(
18:13.30Bountywould the fog of war show?
18:13.38Bountyso u could atleast see ahead
18:15.08JManV|Worki dunno
18:15.37JManV|Workif you have FoW follow a turn, i don't know what you'll see
18:15.52Bountywell i could give everyone a reveal region
18:16.00Bountyattached it them etc
18:16.26Clordmr and mrs lag wants to speak with you
18:16.33ClordXD
18:18.11JManV|Workyeah
18:18.13Bountynope, fog of war does nothing
18:18.19Bountyits all about draw distance
18:18.23*** join/#sc2mapster AxlYin (~axlyin@208-149.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com)
18:18.25Bountyit even hides the fog of war areas
18:19.05Bountylame
18:21.11Bounty50 draw distance seems to be the best performance wise
18:21.22Bountyidk how itll affect ur ability to drive though
18:21.32Bountyguess ill make the draw distance an option
18:37.34JManV|Workwell that was fun
18:37.42JManV|Workjust put a donut on my car
18:38.21JManV|Workcar like that looks so sad on a donut
18:45.16*** join/#sc2mapster Demonette (b206f2b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.6.242.182)
18:45.56*** join/#sc2mapster Dynast (~Dynast@66.185.76.209)
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19:00.53JademusSregI return.
19:01.05Clordlol
19:01.06BountyHello friend
19:01.08Clordokay
19:01.17Clordhi jade
19:01.25JademusSregHi.
19:01.31BountySo i've figured out the Framerate issue Jade lol
19:01.31Bountykinda
19:01.34Bountyor atleast a solution
19:01.40*** join/#sc2mapster nicoli_s (~test@69.73.16.202)
19:01.53BountyIm gonna have graphical options in the game for draw distance
19:02.02JademusSregI took the girls to a jumpity inflataplace. I can't stand that stuff, but the girls had fun.
19:02.05Bountyand also a warning to players that texture quality settings affect the framerate the most
19:02.10JademusSregNeat idea, Bounty.
19:02.15Bountyi put my textures on medium and i stayed at 60 FPS
19:02.21Bountyand yano what? it doesnt look any friggin differant!
19:02.25Bountywhich is wierd
19:02.50JademusSregDamn net split.
19:05.59*** mode/#sc2mapster [+o nicoli_s] by ChanServ
19:06.40JademusSregpch00000
19:10.23Dekaroh nooooooo
19:10.33DekarITS A QUAKENET
19:13.36JManV|Workhello friend :P
19:13.43JManV|Workit's "hi friend"  :P
19:14.06JademusSregI don't know the reference.
19:16.15JManV|Workmost people wouldn't
19:16.15JManV|Workhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9GRu_3hfpM
19:16.15JManV|Workmad addictive song
19:16.15JManV|Workand now i've infected your brain
19:17.48JademusSregIt's not doing anything for me,.
19:18.40JManV|Workto each their own, i suppose
19:19.17JManV|Workits actually grown old on me, i enjoy his other music a lot more
19:19.27JManV|Workbut that song got me stuck on his music in the first place
19:19.54JademusSregPerhaps it would appeal to me had I heard it in fond company, to facilitate the formation of a positive association.
19:20.37JManV|Workfavorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnwfTHpnGLY&feature=relmfu
19:20.53JManV|Workbut "hi friend" is just fun to say
19:21.09JademusSregI liked the enthusiasm in the words.
19:21.41JademusSregBut the words themselves were lackng to me. (the former)
19:22.01JManV|Workoh yeah, there's no content to that song whatsoever
19:22.01JademusSregIt's like something I would listen to on ecstasy.
19:22.16JManV|Workits just there to be fun and dance too
19:22.44JManV|Worki mean there's some content, i think he does kind of capture a certain mood fairly well
19:22.57JManV|Workbut yeah
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19:23.17JManV|Workits just not very deep
19:23.52JademusSregI listen to music that moves me emotionally, usually via the associations the music has with my experiences.
19:24.22JManV|Workofc
19:24.33JademusSregBut I can appreciate the songs are catchy.
19:24.57JManV|Worki always find it funny how music reminds you of certain times in your life, and sometimes they seem perfectly mundane
19:25.13JManV|Workbut the music breathes life into those experiences
19:25.44JademusSregLike this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYsw-G9kEC8
19:26.00JManV|Worksecond song is much more emotionally driven
19:26.13*** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-175-87.sb.sd.cox.net)
19:26.34JademusSregYes, the weapon song was more enjoyable.
19:26.59JManV|Workthe music is moving against itself...
19:27.43A1winwould voting be the best way to decide which mission players will take? :s
19:28.06A1winor mmh... somehow it feels like they should be allowed to go on separate ones too
19:28.20JManV|Workif it can handle that
19:28.29A1winjust balance each mission based on number of players on it
19:28.57JManV|Workmusic is decent, but from a fundamentals perspective, it doesn't seem like they really prescribe to music theory
19:29.20JademusSreg=)
19:30.10JManV|Workmost rock bands don't these days, tho
19:30.44JManV|Work"if it sounds good it must be right"
19:31.05JademusSregI have no perspective on fundamentals. While there is a vast technical dimension to music, I know nothing of it, so it doesn't concern me.
19:31.55JademusSregIt would be dishonest of me to pretend as though I could know and care about anything besides my enjoyment of the aesthetic experience.
19:32.12JManV|Workwell, that's all that really matters
19:32.43JManV|Workjust seemed like in the beginning a couple of instruments were actually playing against each other
19:32.54JManV|Workwhich might have been what they were going for
19:33.28JManV|Workpersonally, those kinds of things are painful to my ears, but that's me
19:34.07JademusSregEach song is a part of a narrative, a scifi space opera.
19:34.34JManV|Workthat i can appreciate
19:35.48JademusSregThat narrative enhances my enjoymnent. The album that song is from is about the madness of the god who created the world that is the main setting.
19:36.03JManV|Workagain, i can appreciate that
19:38.20JademusSregI could (and have) waste hours waxing rhapsodic about the story of the music, but that would be silly. =)
19:40.31JademusSregMusic != Life
19:40.54JademusSregI wonder if that expression would annoy music people.
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19:42.40JManV|Workit doesn't take much :P
19:42.51*** join/#sc2mapster Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-86.client.mchsi.com)
19:42.51*** mode/#sc2mapster [+o Sixen] by ChanServ
19:44.28JManV|Workall of the civilian variants: http://i52.tinypic.com/aqzuo.png
19:44.39JManV|Worki think some of them come out being identical
19:44.49JManV|Worki actually can't tell the difference between the first and second row
19:45.57JManV|Workmight need to zoom in further
19:46.43JManV|Workthink i'll skip all the balding ones :P
19:48.58JManV|Workdon't think those will fit well under the context :)
19:50.57JManV|Workman, they are really ugly up close
19:52.03JademusSregHaha.
19:53.34JManV|Workstill can't spot a single difference between the first two model variations
19:53.39*** join/#sc2mapster nicoli_s (~test@69.73.16.202)
19:55.01Griffith`anyone know how to decrypt bank values?
19:56.05JManV|Workwhy?
19:58.21A1winuff still haven't got anything done... I suppose I'll make the system to fly in and out of the base then
19:59.14JManV|Workaw. none of the girl models have backpacks :(
19:59.30JademusSregGriffith, it's easy if you know how it's done, but why are you dong it?
19:59.33JademusSreg*doing
19:59.55JManV|Workyeah, there's no way i'm gonna help someone crack a bankfile
20:01.17JademusSregThough it would be comical if there was a map that required you to cheat to play it.
20:01.52JademusSregDifferent values in the bank encrypted with escalating levels of sophistication.
20:03.30A1win:P
20:03.44JademusSregPerhaps I'm the only one that finds that amusing.
20:04.01JManV|Workperhaps
20:04.01A1winerr just realized that I can't just make the medivac fly off-screen since there are other players who could see it too
20:04.08A1winso how do I do it o:
20:04.20JademusSregMake it fly up.
20:04.22JManV|Workhuh?
20:04.34A1winthe medivac that comes to pick up the player when he returns to base
20:04.36A1winhmmh
20:04.41JademusSregPeriodic eight offset, then hide.
20:04.45JademusSreg*height
20:04.49JManV|Workwho else would see that, and why does it matter?
20:04.49A1winI guess so
20:05.05A1winI don't want the other players to see the medivac just vanish
20:05.33JManV|Workhave it explode :P
20:05.38A1win:P
20:05.45A1winbut the player is inside
20:05.46JManV|Work"GAME OVER"
20:05.52JManV|Work:)
20:05.55JademusSregHell, it could be done several different ways, too.
20:06.13JManV|Workit would end as fast as a cardcraft game :P
20:07.41JManV|Workalthough, i think those matches somehow find a way to end in LESS than 1/32nd of a second
20:07.43JademusSregFor example, a Site (Rocker) actor can do it, Buff behaviors can apply modifications, Modify Unit effects can apply modifications, there is a Jump ability I haven't tinkered with yet, and triggers can set height.
20:08.02JManV|Workyou could have it go into hyperdrive and just speed off
20:08.06JademusSregSo yeah, lots of ways to do it.
20:08.18A1winmm
20:08.55JManV|Workremember cardcraft, jademus?
20:09.09JademusSregYeah. =(
20:09.27JManV|Worki think that was actually worse than impossible mission
20:09.48JManV|Workimpossible mission being very possible when the units don't fight back :P
20:10.01JademusSregHah.
20:10.08JManV|Worknormally, its actually ludicrously difficult
20:10.43*** join/#sc2mapster ducky_ (53f1057d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.241.5.125)
20:10.56JManV|Worki was actually commentating during the video, talking about how the first mission says "very easy"
20:10.58*** join/#sc2mapster Demonette (b206f2b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.6.242.182)
20:11.15JManV|Workand i said it was on a scale from ridiculously difficult to completely impossible
20:11.34JManV|Workand then... :)
20:11.46JManV|Worknothing found back
20:11.53JademusSregSeems to bug with spectators.
20:12.10JManV|Worki spectated last time
20:12.10JademusSregWhich is just poor design; why don't people think about spectators?
20:12.46JManV|Workwell, i don't plan on allowing for spectators in my game
20:12.50JManV|Workmaybe the tournament mode
20:13.02JManV|Workbut i don't think spectators really make sense in an RPG
20:13.13JademusSregWell, so long as you explicitly exclude spectators, then it's not poor design. =)
20:13.55JademusSregJust disable watchers and stuff from the ame Variants.
20:14.00JademusSreg*Game
20:14.14JManV|Workyeah
20:14.35JManV|Worki could totally see allowing that for tournament matches
20:14.47JManV|Workwhich would be a little funny, because specators may need camera controls
20:15.06JManV|Worki don't think i'd want them to have free camera
20:15.09JademusSregUnlike wc3, spectators are still subject to triggers and shit.
20:15.13JManV|Workthey'd be able to see behind the curtain
20:16.07JManV|Workheh. i don't need seperate units for male and female characters, since i set the model when i set the variation anyways :P
20:16.41ducky_waht are you two talking about?
20:16.41JManV|Workathough if unit name ever came up...
20:16.50JManV|Workrandom things?
20:17.00JademusSregStuff.
20:17.05ducky_eh, I see
20:17.06JManV|Worki'm guilty of babbling from time to time
20:17.12ducky_Anyone need to test something on EU?
20:17.23JManV|Workas well as changing the subject with each passing breath
20:18.05ducky_for some strange reason i got a terrible mood so I figured i'd just play sc2, but can't really find anything .. exciting =[
20:18.15JManV|Worki have all the focus of a tesla coil
20:18.37JademusSregEverything is terrible.
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20:19.43ducky_that's bad.. I wish everything was splendid
20:21.05JManV|Workthat'd be boring
20:21.16JademusSregHah.
20:21.17JManV|Workterrible is just so much more interesting
20:22.08ducky_well.. I'd say that terrifying is better, it got more emotions in it
20:22.19ducky_terrible is just .. very bad
20:22.36ducky_not enough chaos and destruction >.>
20:23.25JademusSregTake MST3K for example. It's a very Nietzschean approach to terrible cinema. =)
20:25.29JManV|Workhmmm.  i need these units to not have shadows for a second
20:27.17JManV|Worksolution: lots of ambient light and no directional light :P
20:28.06JademusSregHah.
20:28.19JademusSregWhy no shadows?
20:28.48*** join/#sc2mapster Motive_ (~motive@c-68-36-169-50.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
20:28.57JManV|Worki'm trying to make icons for these models
20:29.06JademusSregAh.
20:29.14JademusSregPreviwer?
20:29.15JManV|Worki've got about 6 male models and 6 female models for the hero
20:29.30JManV|Workpreviewer wouldn't work, they have texture variations
20:29.36JademusSregAh.
20:29.57JademusSregI'm prettu sure they are just model variatiobs.
20:30.15JManV|Worki've spent most of today figuring it all out
20:30.23JManV|Workthey're not, as far as i can tell
20:30.36JademusSregHow do you mean?
20:30.50JManV|Workthere are 3 model variations
20:30.58JManV|Workand 9 different sets of textures
20:31.10JManV|Work= 27 total available model combinations
20:31.37JademusSregIntriguing if it does use texture variations, as nothing else does.
20:31.55JManV|Worknot many models use the texture groups, i don't think
20:32.04JademusSregRocks
20:32.19JManV|Worktrust me, it uses them
20:32.35JademusSregInteresting.
20:32.55JManV|Workso the black civ and the white one are the same model
20:33.05JManV|Workjust different textures applied
20:33.14JManV|Workclothes and hair colors as well
20:33.20JademusSregNeat.
20:33.36JademusSregShadow might find that interesting too.
20:33.40JManV|Workyeah, it's pretty cool but a pain in the ass
20:33.54JManV|Worki still can't figure out how to set it in data
20:34.06JManV|Workbut there's a trigger function, set unit model variation
20:34.07JademusSregModel
20:34.15JademusSregTexture Group
20:34.20JManV|Worklets you set the variation, as well as a texture string
20:34.26JManV|Workyeah, but what does that link to?
20:34.27JademusSregLet me find the name of the field...
20:35.10JademusSregTexture Applied Groups
20:35.12JManV|Worklike if i wanted to create a unit with only one specific texture
20:35.18JademusSregYes.
20:35.30JManV|Workyeah, i've been looking at that field
20:35.35JManV|Workdunno what it does, exactly
20:35.50JademusSregTake a look. It's pretty neat.
20:35.56JademusSregOh haha
20:36.32JManV|Workits just got a drop down.  i don't know what it is
20:36.43JManV|Workbut i've got what i need working, i just need icons for my dudes
20:37.01JademusSregYeah, those are a mystery a bit; they seem hardcoded.
20:37.30JManV|Worksince i'm only gonna use about 6 per gender, i figure icons are better than showing the actual unit with a customization dialog
20:37.44JManV|Workbetter = easier
20:37.48*** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@e176224094.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:37.55*** join/#sc2mapster P_R_Deltoid (~P_R_Dontk@c-76-20-43-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
20:37.57JManV|Workand i don't think advanced customization dialogs are necessary
20:38.25JManV|Workplus there'd only be like 2 options :P
20:40.01JManV|Worki actually can't tell the difference between any of the femal civ model variations.  one seems to have a higher specular value, tho
20:40.12JManV|Workthey almost look like dolls, they're so reflective
20:44.00A1windamn, can't fade out just for one player... except by creating a huge black dialog and fading that in
20:44.58JManV|Workikr
20:45.02JManV|Workdumbest thing ever
20:45.17JademusSregYup.
20:46.41JManV|Workthats exactly what i did, btw - created a giant dialog
20:47.02A1winmm...
20:47.10A1winI just remembered I did that for the survival map too
20:47.11JManV|Worki hate that screen buttons lack player-dependant controls as well
20:47.18*** join/#sc2mapster Bounty (442d304d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.45.48.77)
20:47.21BountyHai guyz
20:47.35JManV|Workand lighting... don't get me started about lighting
20:48.13A1windoes the friends button show even in fullscreen screen mode?
20:48.21JademusSregHi.
20:48.26BountyHey Jade
20:48.40Bountydown for a showing of progress? :) i think ull be extremely happy with one of the new additions
20:49.00JademusSregSure. Give me a moment.
20:51.28JademusSregReady.
20:51.53Bountykk uploading now, be on in 5 seconds
20:52.26A1winwhat's the max resolution SC2 supports?
20:52.36*** join/#sc2mapster Vexal (803e36a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.62.54.162)
20:52.43A1winactually nvm ;p the dialogs aren't based on resolution anyway
20:52.43Vexalis the patch coming tomorrow?
20:53.03JademusSregI dunno. Someone made a resolution detector, though.
20:53.04JManV|Workhas there been any indication?
20:53.33Vexalwhy would we want to know the resolution?
20:53.58A1winto adjust dialogs maybe
20:54.15Vexali thought it's done automatically by thee game
20:54.15JManV|Worki could stand to know the ratio
20:54.25A1winVexal, yeah but like fine-tuning
20:55.03*** join/#sc2mapster bone_ (4e34a8ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.52.168.171)
20:55.05JManV|Workcamera bounds don't constrain the viewport, only the camera object
20:55.11bone_hi
20:55.18JManV|Worki could use to know the ratio, so that i can determine the viewport size
20:57.24bone_how do i change the animation the actor uses when creating a persitent?
20:58.11JManV|Workhave an actor even fire on the effect?
20:58.15JManV|Workevent
20:58.48A1winis it possible to remove sounds from a dialog button?
20:58.51bone_i've copied raynors timebomb, trying to create a dome to buff the units in it
20:59.20bone_the actor has an effect.blapersistens.start - create entry
21:00.25bone_http://i.imgur.com/DUxZu.jpg
21:00.28JManV|Workman, these models are awful chesty and hippy for "little girls"... but you use what you have i guess :P
21:01.33bone_wait what :D
21:01.58JManV|Worki'm making pokemon
21:02.06JManV|Worki need a "little boy" and "little girl" model
21:02.21bone_copy them from wc3^^
21:02.22JManV|Workclosest are civilians, if i make them short and a little more stout
21:02.36JManV|Workhmm. perhaps
21:02.44JManV|Workdon't have access to wc3, however
21:02.44bone_any ideas on my actor?
21:03.14bone_it is working but the birth animation is way too slow
21:03.31JManV|Workyou could speed up the animation
21:03.37JManV|Workor you could play another animation
21:03.54bone_instand stand animation would be good
21:04.07bone_need no birth for this short ability
21:04.17JManV|Workanimation play
21:04.21JManV|Workstand stand
21:04.24JademusSregYup.
21:04.46JademusSregBounty, don't forget: Victory triggers.
21:04.57Bountythere alrdy in
21:04.59Bountylol
21:05.02*** join/#sc2mapster Ashamed (20616e40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.32.97.110.64)
21:05.04Ashamedi am bored
21:05.15JademusSregAlso don't forget to exclude all the useless shit from the Game Variants.
21:05.17Bountyits just that its set for 10 laps
21:05.23Bountybut that will be in the options aswell
21:05.42Bountyim not very good with variants but ill do what i can
21:05.48JademusSregIt's easy.
21:05.49JManV|Worki guess these look like little girls if you ignore their boobs :P
21:05.53Bountynone of them do what they say they will lol
21:06.02JademusSregSet the defaults, set to locked.
21:06.02JManV|Workmaybe they just mature quickly :P
21:06.29JademusSregNo race selection, handicap, spectators, watchers, and shit like that.
21:06.48Bountyhow do u lock those?
21:06.52Bountythe things u just listed
21:07.03JademusSregIt's in Game Variants.
21:07.10Bountyyeah i see it but
21:07.18Bountyi cant lock it to none
21:07.33JademusSregYou'll figure it out. =)
21:07.38JademusSregI'm busy.
21:07.42bone_doesn't work... doing it wrong i guess
21:07.52JManV|Workit definitely helps that all the female models have pigtails
21:08.00Bountyi guess i just set everyones participant role to participant
21:08.10JManV|Work... which is weird, btw
21:08.36A1winhow does revive unit actually work?
21:08.55A1winit dosn't seem to do anything if I try to revive triggering unit on unit death event
21:09.05JademusSregAlso, set them to hidden, the useless shit.
21:09.20Ashamedi love batch scripts :)
21:09.24Ashamedthey make my job so much easier
21:09.38JManV|Workonetwo actually has a senseless race selection on death haven... :)
21:09.40Ashamedand they are so simple to make
21:10.51Bountybut yeah i think its obvious this map will actually see a release Jade
21:10.58JademusSregWell onetwo is awesome and ridiculous at the same time. =D
21:10.59Bountyeven someone like me sees it lol
21:11.19Bountyi would have to die or become insanely lazy to not finish this now
21:11.19JManV|Workyeah, he pulls it off well, doesn't he? :P)
21:11.29JademusSregHaha
21:11.36*** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-175-87.sb.sd.cox.net)
21:11.42Bountyannnd, you get a spot on teh loading screen ><
21:11.45Bountyi think that was obvious though
21:11.52JManV|Workhow much you want to bet he stops modifying that game at some point soon, and it will drop off the list?
21:13.07bone_i stopped modifing for 3 month and it dropped to page 2
21:13.25Bountywhat map?
21:13.33bone_income wars
21:13.38Bountywell there u go
21:13.41Bountylol
21:13.46JManV|Workonetwo's map would need more refinement before it would have that kind of staying power
21:13.46Bountyit doesnt matter what u do with those types of maps ><
21:13.57Bountyonce its done its done
21:13.57bone_i know...^^
21:14.00JManV|Workbut it's not his primary concern, so it will probably fall by the wayside
21:14.08bone_it is ridiculous
21:14.17JademusSregThe production value on Death Haven is pretty high, I love it.
21:14.30JManV|Workand when players realize there will be no further balance adjustments or extra things to do, they'll stop playing
21:14.34BountyHigher then Smashcraft?
21:14.39BountyProduction value wise
21:14.48JManV|Worki'm a big fan of death haven myself
21:14.57JManV|Worki'm also a big fan of prisoner rebellion
21:15.10JademusSregThere are a number things I didn't like about the map, but not enough to hate it.
21:15.37JManV|Workyeah, but if you played it, and those things stayed the same way for a long time
21:15.43JManV|Workyou'd stop playing it eventually
21:15.51BountyDo these maps have higher production value then Smashcraft????
21:15.54JManV|Workyou'd expect those things to improve over time
21:15.59BountyI've never seen them
21:16.05JademusSregMaybe. Depends on the fun of playing and the group momentum.
21:16.07JManV|Worksmashcraft's production value is all stolen
21:16.07Bountyexcept prisoner rebellion
21:16.13Bountylol?
21:16.18Bountystolen?
21:16.32JManV|Worki love how people just ignore the dialog box when you publish that says you can't publish copyright material
21:16.45Bountyoh, you're one of those guys
21:16.48JademusSregThose fucking sounds.
21:16.53JademusSregYes.
21:17.00JManV|Worknot original music, not original sound effects, most likely not original artwork
21:17.09Bountyso what?
21:17.12JManV|Worki'm one of those guys that follow the rules? yeah
21:17.19JManV|Workso what it can get banned
21:17.20Bountylol wow
21:17.28Bountyno map has ever been banned for copyright
21:17.30Bountyever
21:17.39JManV|Workthat's not a chance i'm willing to take
21:17.51BountyIts not enforced until you get into the marketplace
21:17.54JademusSregIt's just not cool to rip off other people's work, I could give a shit less about legality.
21:17.56Bountythen thats totally differant
21:18.03JManV|Workand also, if you're going to praise a map for production value, it should have original material
21:18.25Bountyyeah because im sure the composer of the soundtrack for the original mortal kombat movie is really goign to be pissed that i used his song in Speed Craft
21:18.28Bountyoh no
21:18.32JManV|Workproduction value doesn't mean a lot if it was all ripped from somewhere else
21:18.52JManV|Workthat song is by Juno Reactor and it's awesome
21:19.03BountyI know who its by, im just saying
21:19.05JManV|Workit's a remix of a Traci Lords song
21:19.13BountyI think you guys forget what community this is
21:19.21JManV|Workthat song got me into juno reactor in the first place
21:19.34BountyThis isnt a community making games using the Unreal Engine, its a Starcraft Mapping community
21:19.44*** join/#sc2mapster Deathtorn (63fc8a73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.252.138.115)
21:19.49BountyUsing various music from games or artists is normal and it adds alot if used right
21:20.08BountyMona Lisa Overdrive got me into Juno
21:20.18JManV|Workgood song as well
21:20.19Bountyalthough technically i heard the remix of Traci Lords first
21:20.25Bountybut i didnt know who it was bc i was like 8
21:20.28Bounty><
21:20.36DeathtornHello!
21:21.07JademusSregHi.
21:21.10JManV|Workanyways, its not like juno reactor is some huge band with tons of money... they probably /would/ care that you used their song
21:21.20A1winmeh I'm spending too much time on this medivac scene :P
21:21.22JManV|Worki would
21:21.25DeathtornWassup
21:21.34BountyBut i'm not making any profit whatsoever from this
21:21.41BountyIts like making a fan made music video
21:21.45BountyNo profit
21:21.50A1winwhich is also illegal :P
21:22.05BountyReally then why do i see so many of them on youtube
21:22.23A1winthey haven't been reported I suppose
21:22.24DeathtornI think the original artists have to claim
21:22.28JManV|Workanyways, my two points aren't so much about morality, although it is important
21:22.37Bountyhow about this
21:22.38JManV|Work1) i'm not gonna take the chance that my map will be banned
21:22.40Bountyyou guys all drive yes?
21:22.52A1winnope ;p
21:22.56Bountyim not familiar with everyones state driving wise but do you LITERALLY follow every single rule of the road?
21:22.57Bountyall of them
21:22.59Bountyno exceptions
21:23.00Bountyno
21:23.01Bountyyou dont
21:23.02JManV|Work2) i refuse to celebrate someone's high production value, when none of it was actually created by that person
21:23.03Bountyits the same thing
21:23.09Bountysome rules are there but not enforced
21:23.28Deathtorna lot of them aren't
21:23.31DeathtornBut
21:23.33DeathtornStill
21:23.36JademusSregMeh, it's not about rules, it's about ethics.
21:23.37JManV|Worki follow a lot of them that seem arbitrary because i'm not willing to risk getting a ticket, sure
21:23.38DeathtornThat doesn't apply to everything
21:23.40Bountysorry we cant all be map makers, voice actors, composers and artists at the same time JManV
21:23.44Bountybc thats what ur saying
21:23.48Bountyand thats insane
21:23.55DeathtornThat's why you receive help
21:24.01A1winyou do use it for "profit", just not as money, but as fame which is also personal gain o:
21:24.05JManV|Workwe have music producers among us
21:24.14BountySome people (Like me) just like to map, im not into getting a huge team and building a huge project
21:24.21A1winI have no problem using other people's stuff if it's just between me and a few of my friends
21:24.24DeathtornThat's true
21:24.30A1winbut I don't go sharing it on the internet
21:24.31DeathtornIt's mostly you taking the chances
21:24.33JManV|Workanyways, i'm not willing to personally accept the risk, that's all i said
21:24.37DeathtornSo
21:24.53DeathtornIt's more of a personal choice
21:24.55DeathtornRandom question
21:24.56BountyNo, you said you pretty much look down on any map that using copyrighted music lol
21:25.02Deathtorn=o
21:25.10JManV|Worki don't consider it "high production value"
21:25.14Bountyand the whole "following the rules" thing is riddiculas
21:25.14JManV|Workit's all stolen
21:25.27DeathtornJManV
21:25.32JManV|Worki don't specifically look down on it
21:25.35JManV|Workper se
21:25.37DeathtornIt may be 'Stolen'
21:25.46JManV|Workbut i'm not going to celebrate it, either
21:25.51DeathtornYes
21:25.54BountyYeah
21:25.58DeathtornBut it's no reason to look down
21:26.00Bountyim not saying u should hear a song in map
21:26.02Bountyand praise the map
21:26.04Bountyfor usign that song
21:26.06Bountythats not what im saying
21:26.24JManV|Worksure, the game is put together well, but a lot of that content isn't original
21:26.25Bountyim saying, if it adds to the atmosphere and is used properly, its still production value that took effort to take that song and use it taht way
21:26.25A1winI love it when people say "per se", "perse" is a rude word for arse in Finnish
21:26.34JManV|Workit's not hard to throw together a whole bunch of someone else's stuff
21:26.47BountyActually it is
21:26.50Bountymusic wise
21:26.59JManV|Workmost of that came from one game
21:27.16JManV|Workso he just used what they did and copied it
21:27.18JManV|Worknot hard
21:27.31Bountyoh im not even talking about Mephs anymore
21:27.31Bountyscrew him ><
21:27.32DeathtornJman
21:27.33JManV|Worki spent two days search for good, free music for my game
21:27.36DeathtornQuick question
21:27.41DeathtornWhat if it's the idea?
21:27.52DeathtornLike, it's a remade version of the map
21:28.06JManV|Workyou can't copyright ideas
21:28.14A1winit's just rude to use someone else's assets without permission
21:28.14DeathtornIs it just a matter of law?
21:28.22Bountyum
21:28.23JManV|Workbesides, ideas are a dime a dozen
21:28.29Bountythats stealing to imo
21:28.30JManV|Worki don't value ideas very highly
21:28.34JManV|Workit's the implementation
21:28.38Bountybut ur going based off law school crap JMan lol
21:28.39DeathtornTrue
21:28.41DeathtornBut
21:28.42Bountyu can steal ideas
21:28.53JManV|Worki actually never said anything about law, once
21:28.59Bountydepending on the situation we're talking about of course
21:29.01DeathtornYou implied that
21:29.04JManV|Worki said i followed the rules - blizzard's rule
21:29.05JManV|Works
21:29.13Bountyyeah but ur going way to in depth in it
21:29.13JManV|Workbecause i don't want my map banned
21:29.47Bountyif u have that sort of strict mentality about blizzards rules, you should use that mentality in everyday life, driving etc
21:29.50Bountywell that i understand
21:29.55Bountyi cant blame u for that
21:30.10Bountyi mean if i actually saw a map get banned
21:30.12Bountyfor copyright
21:30.14Bountyi'd stop
21:30.23DeathtornBounty
21:30.29Bountybut its never happend and never will happen UNTIL marketplace... then thats a problem
21:30.30JManV|Worki bet you we could get one banned for copyright, if we reported it
21:30.31DeathtornWhat if it's your map that gets banned first
21:30.43bone_found an better shield. problem solved
21:30.45JManV|Workexactly!
21:30.45DeathtornI'm sure we could
21:30.51DeathtornBut nobody really cares
21:30.52Bountywhats the differance Deathorn?
21:30.54DeathtornThat much
21:30.55JManV|Workalso, i'd like to get my map featured at some point
21:31.00DeathtornBounty
21:31.02DeathtornThe difference
21:31.04BountyJMan
21:31.07JManV|Workthey will be less likely to do that if there are copyright concerns
21:31.08BountyRoach Snake was featured
21:31.09Deathtornis that -you- worked on it
21:31.15Bountyand had copyrighted music
21:31.15Deathtornyou put your own time into it
21:31.16Bountyexplain that
21:31.19Bountyshazam!
21:31.21Bounty<---winning
21:31.31A1winI don't really care what others do with their maps, I probably won't play them anyway or care if they get banned :P
21:31.35JManV|Workas death is trying to say, it only takes once
21:31.37DeathtornWhat did roach snake have?
21:31.44Bountya techno song
21:31.49DeathtornFrom who?
21:31.50Bountywasnt his
21:31.54Bountyidk, i dont listen to techno
21:31.59BountyPakaran is his name, he can tell u
21:32.03DeathtornThen how did you know?
21:32.03MotiveBounty: the people who feature the maps aren't the lawyers
21:32.05JManV|Workthey may not have realized
21:32.25Bountyi know that Motive, but JMan brought up the whole bring featured thing
21:32.32Bountylol they may not have realized?
21:32.39DeathtornBounty
21:32.41DeathtornAs you said
21:32.44JManV|Workplus, the person that published that map agreed not to publish copyright information, they're justified in expected that his was followed
21:32.46DeathtornNot everyone listens to techno
21:33.02BountyNot everyone listens to every genre of music
21:33.14DeathtornI seriously doubt that when they feature they go through every little thing
21:33.28DeathtornIt's not feasible
21:33.33JManV|Workthey obv don't, or they would have featured the right zealot frenzy
21:33.35BountyOk how about this
21:33.36DeathtornBut you agree
21:33.48BountyPeople have been using custom songs since what? Starcraft 1? Not one map has been banned
21:33.48JManV|Workor taken it down sometime in the month that the wrong zealot frenzy was up
21:33.51A1winI wonder if I should just remove the player unit from the game when he goes to the "base" or just hide it while he's there
21:33.59MotiveSC1 didn't have support for banning maps...
21:34.05JManV|Workwhile the author of the real zealot frenzy was actively trying to get their attention
21:34.12BountyIf you have to recall the unit again A1win, use hide unit
21:34.13A1winoh but I need to actually show the unit while it's there so I guess I need a small portion of map reserved for that...
21:34.34JManV|Worki bet if just a few people reported a map for copyright violation, it'd get banned
21:34.43Bountylets do it then
21:34.45Bountylol
21:34.46DeathtornYou'd probably only need one
21:34.47Bountypick your map
21:34.48DeathtornWhy?
21:34.52DeathtornThat's crued
21:34.54DeathtornCruel
21:34.58Bountywhy?
21:35.02Bountyif its such a big deal
21:35.07bone_pretty sure, some hater recognizes custom sound and reports it
21:35.17JManV|Workits a huge deal if it happens once
21:35.22Bountyooh i know
21:35.25JManV|Workit doesn't ever have to have happened before
21:35.25BountyLeft 2 Die or w/e
21:35.27BountyMephs old map
21:35.29JManV|Workthat's irrelevant
21:35.32Motiveyou don't get banned for reporting a copyright violation
21:35.32BountyCLEARLY blizzard knew about that map
21:35.37Bountyand knew it had L4D music in it
21:35.43Bountyand all it had to do was change its name
21:35.46Motiveyou get banned when the copyright holder's agent/lawyer files a DMCA takedown notice in the USA
21:35.51Motivethat's how it works
21:35.52Motivelawyered
21:35.56JManV|Workyeah
21:35.59DeathtornReally?
21:36.03Bountynobody is going to do that though
21:36.09Motiveyou have to swear under penalty of perjury that you are authorized to act on behalf of the copyright holder
21:36.09DeathtornWhich means nothing will ever get banned.
21:36.13Motiveyou can't just be some joe who reports it
21:36.14bone_i doubt blizz waits for a lawyer if someone reports it
21:36.18JManV|Workand if i violated copyright, there's a good chance game freak would drop a lawyer hammer on me
21:36.21Clordone easy way is to change name.. like death note -> shinigami note
21:36.23Clordvoila
21:36.31ClordXD
21:36.38DeathtornLol
21:36.39bone_dead note^^
21:36.48Bounty><
21:36.53Clordyeah but that would imply that note is dead
21:36.54JManV|Workmine is failry high profile, and i've chosen to emulate a game that still actively being published
21:36.54Clordlol
21:37.08bone_dead note walking
21:37.12JManV|Workif i cross boundries, i'll probably hear about it
21:37.19DeathtornJManV you're talking about Your pokemon map?
21:37.19BountyJMAN TOOK DER IDEAZZZZ
21:37.40JManV|Workyeah
21:37.55Clordyeah... pokemon is such revolutionary new concept.... party memebrs are instead pokemons than humans etc
21:37.56BountyWould you consider your map high production or w/e?
21:37.57DeathtornI recall there being pokemon maps before that were kill, and capture type things
21:38.02JManV|Worki'm still a little uncertain about the starting area, and how closely it resembles the real game
21:38.22DeathtornJManV
21:38.22DeathtornThat shouldn't be an issue
21:38.28Bountywait
21:38.30JManV|Worki don't think it will
21:38.35Bountyi must have misunderstould that
21:38.36JManV|Workbut outright music theft would be
21:38.40DeathtornYea
21:38.49Bountyare you afraid that you will get the map banned for the starting area looking similar to the actual pokemon game?
21:38.52DeathtornJust stick with what you're using
21:38.55Bountyor did i misunderstand that
21:39.06ClordI wonder if they care of L and Kira as alias... L is typically related to agents and Kira can be also just plain normal name in the world
21:39.15JManV|Workbounty: if the makers of pokemon actually made a stink about it, yes
21:39.28JManV|Worki could be legally in the right, but they're a huge company
21:39.31A1winJManV|Work, they can't copyright a layout of tiles :P
21:39.37Bountylol
21:39.43A1winif the tile graphics themselves aren't from them
21:39.44BountyJManV
21:39.47BountyDo you smoke pot?
21:39.51BountyYou are the most paranoid person ever
21:39.57JManV|Workno, none of the graphics are from them
21:40.03BountyAlways waiting for the big game companies to pounce on u =P
21:40.08JManV|Workparanoia is good
21:40.12DeathtornBetter be safe than sorry
21:40.15BountySquare Enix is gunna getcha
21:40.16*** join/#sc2mapster CryptRat (440a127b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.10.18.123)
21:40.25Clordnormally there is no problem as long it does not go beyond typed text
21:40.27JManV|Worki've spent a /lot/ of time working on this map
21:40.35BountyI know, and it looks good
21:40.37JManV|Workmonths already, and months into the future
21:40.48Bountybut if u were to use a pokemon song in it
21:40.52JManV|Worki don't want it to fall over something that could have been avoided
21:41.04Bountyit wouldnt affect how much i liked the map, it would most likely make me like it more
21:41.09Bountybc thats just cool imo
21:41.10DeathtornCouldn't you just republish it without the music?
21:41.26JManV|Worktheoretically, yes
21:41.30DeathtornIf there's any issues
21:41.39Clordjust don't use copyrighted movie, anime, manga or game name as your map name and you are most likely fine.. as long you stay away from modelling stuff after stuff map implies
21:42.09JManV|Workthere's also a matter of personal pride
21:42.20Clordoh and avoid using copyrighted music like plague unless blizzard owns rights XD
21:42.35JManV|Workif you don't play my game because the music isn't original pokemon music, then i have failed as a map designer
21:42.53JManV|Worknothing to do with the music directly
21:42.58Bountyim not sayign that
21:43.03Bountyim just saying if it was there
21:43.04Bountyi wouldnt say
21:43.09DeathtornThe nostalgia would be nice, but it's not worth it if you don't believe in that.
21:43.10Clordyou do good job if you get me actively to play that map.. as I'm rather old for pokemon
21:43.12Bountyand quit
21:43.14BountyWhat a thief!
21:43.31A1winyou can never be too old for pokemon :(
21:43.32JManV|Worki happen to like the music i chose, and i think it has the same feel and fits the theme well
21:43.40BountyI cant stress enough that this ISNT actually game design guys
21:43.41DeathtornI like it
21:43.46Bountyits starcraft 2 custom maps
21:43.52JManV|Worksome find 8-bit music annoying, however, so i've added the option to switch to SC2 music
21:43.53DeathtornWhich is a game?
21:43.56CryptRatBounty, are you ALWAYS on this? x_x
21:43.56Bountythe rules are not nearly as enforced
21:44.00JademusSreg"I'm proud to present the next big thing in skill-based MOBA/DOTA style gaming." Wakka wakka
21:44.04A1winI just started watching season 1 of pokemon for the lulz, but it's so awesome that it's not just for the lulz anymore ;D
21:44.07Clordactually.... popular maps tend to be called games....
21:44.08Bountylol Jade
21:44.12Clordit happened for even DotA XD
21:44.13Bountywas that what mephs said?
21:44.15Bountyabout smashcraft?
21:44.17Bountyor something
21:44.17JademusSregYeah.
21:44.20Bounty><
21:44.23Bountydid u also know
21:44.25Bountyhe said
21:44.30JManV|Workyeah, this is a game
21:44.31Bounty"AFTER SEVEN MONTHS OF HARD WORK"
21:44.36Bountyand sc2 had only been out for like 5
21:44.38JManV|Workit's not a map
21:44.42ClordWakka.... shut up there
21:44.45JManV|Worki mean, it is a map
21:44.47ClordI don't want to play blitzzball
21:44.53ClordXD
21:44.55JademusSregHah.
21:44.59JManV|Workbut it will actually cover more than one map
21:45.03JademusSregI like Wakka more than Wocka.
21:45.12JademusSregWocka is just ugly.
21:45.13ClordWakka is one of nasty characters
21:45.22A1winbah now I'm following your useless conversation instead of mapping
21:45.30DeathtornSame
21:45.31Clordhttp://www.google.fi/images?q=wakka&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=b4x-Tca-KsnAswbyjvj3Bg&ved=0CFUQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1077
21:45.32DeathtornXD
21:45.34ClordFFX character :)
21:45.43*** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-175-87.sb.sd.cox.net)
21:45.44JademusSreghttp://i.imgur.com/jzRLu.jpg
21:45.53MotiveAnyone have any clue how to dynamically change the "Up" vector of rotation dynamically through triggers? I've tried the actormsg SetRotation() but the up vector seems to be ignored
21:45.54JademusSregI'vep layed FF10 before.
21:45.54Bountylolol
21:46.03*** join/#sc2mapster Twiner (~Twiner@c-98-229-148-216.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)
21:46.06BountyWE CAN USE
21:46.08BountyLAUGHTER
21:46.12BountyTO SLAY THE BAD GUY
21:46.14BountyHA
21:46.15BountyHA
21:46.17JademusSregYes.
21:46.19Bounty^FF10
21:46.22Bountythe whole story
21:46.24Clordso tuesday-friday.. bet what day patch comes... free bet ^^
21:46.40DeathtornNever
21:46.41Bountyi swear, that scene in ff10 was fucking embaressing
21:46.43Clordmy bet... next week
21:46.44Bountylol
21:46.44Clordlol
21:46.46DeathtornIt's early april fools
21:46.59Clordmy more honest bet
21:47.05Clordtuesday-friday
21:47.06Clord^^
21:47.12DeathtornPfft
21:47.25DeathtornIt's gonna but thurs
21:47.28Deathtornbe
21:47.32JManV|Workwhen it's ready (tm)
21:47.36JManV|Workthat's my bet
21:47.38DeathtornLol
21:47.40JManV|Worki win!
21:47.41Clordthey are finalizing it TM
21:47.42JademusSregI think April Fools pranks would be more convincing if the pranks were perpetrated long before April, and then revealed to be pranks in April.
21:47.42Deathtorn>.>
21:47.43ClordXD
21:47.50Clordthey say so in USA side
21:47.56Clordand they already warn us about game variants
21:48.02DeathtornFU
21:48.03Bountywhat?
21:48.03ClordI don't see reason why they would suddenly broke
21:48.05*** join/#sc2mapster Vexal (81740a3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.116.10.59)
21:48.05Clordbut whatever
21:48.08DeathtornI hope they fix them
21:48.11DeathtornAt least
21:48.12JManV|Workalright, i'm going home
21:48.12Bountywhat happend to game variants?
21:48.14Bountylol
21:48.14Vexalprobably.
21:48.16JManV|Workbbs
21:48.23DeathtornBai
21:48.23JademusSregGame Variant problems?
21:48.29Clordpatch 1.3.0 changes game variants so that they might bug...
21:48.32Clordthey recommend to do them again
21:48.34Clordafter the patch
21:48.36Bountygrr
21:48.40Bountyson of a beetch
21:48.42DeathtornHopefully for the better
21:48.48JademusSregMaybe they are changing the indexes.
21:49.04Clordthey also overhaul game variants section from editor
21:49.05Clordlol
21:49.08Bountymaybe lobby delay will actually work
21:49.09Clordmostly style changes
21:49.11JademusSregOr fuck, maybe they are permitting them to be accessed by their goddamn names.
21:49.12Clordfor noobs
21:49.16JademusSreg=D
21:49.19Bountydo we get a dialog previewer yet!?
21:49.26Bountywant that shit so bad
21:49.27DeathtornLol
21:49.31DeathtornNo kidding
21:49.32Bountylol
21:49.33Deathtorn>.>
21:49.44Bountyu could make the most polished UI ever in like 10 mins
21:49.46Bountyif u had a previewer
21:49.57DeathtornRofl
21:50.02Clordthey imply that not all game variants gonna break
21:50.02DeathtornFor sure
21:50.03Clordso dunno
21:50.08JademusSregDeclaring constants like const string GAME_ATTRIBUTE_FUCKINAROUND = "1"; is lame.
21:50.27Hatiwhy?
21:50.40JademusSregAll the standard game attributes get names. =(
21:50.52Clordhttp://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1849935342
21:50.55JademusSregAnd custom game attributes don't. [sadder face]
21:51.20DeathtornI hate that they split the fricking forums
21:51.20bone_how do i make the curso splat size itself with the range of the ability?
21:51.29Bountyso
21:51.43Bountyon day 1 of patch 1.3
21:51.52BountyWho wants to hop on bnet immediately and downvote Debates?
21:51.58Bounty><
21:51.59DeathtornLOL
21:52.00Clordlol
21:52.02Clordthat is harsh
21:52.06JademusSregWell, maybe it will be an actual improvement.
21:52.06Clordyou should not
21:52.10Vexali published my map on the PTR a bit ago
21:52.12Vexaland it worked fine
21:52.18DeathtornHrmm
21:52.46Clordyeah there is not much reasons them to break
21:52.53Clordso I dunno what the hell they are talking about
21:52.54Clord^^
21:53.05Clordall they really mostly do is change layout of that system
21:53.11Clordand remove field
21:53.13Bountyjust incase so ppl cant bitch at blizzard about how they didnt tell them
21:53.21JademusSregI kinda like Debates. That Rodrigo behaves like a tool much of the time online shouldn't reflect poorly on the map. Let the map's flaws be its own. =)
21:53.32ClordI guessed that kinda.... pre-emptive if something does not work right
21:53.35Motivemap flaws: the debates in debates are one-sided :P
21:53.41JademusSregFor instance, bullshit star ratings on people.
21:53.42DeathtornLol
21:53.46ClordI actually would like to experience debates map
21:53.47BountyDebates is only good for trolling
21:53.47Clordlol
21:54.04BountyBut if you consider the actual gameplay/core of Debates.. its in the wrong community
21:54.13Clordoh right... I have US account now too.... I could just search it and test in solo.. but that does not work in solo >_>
21:54.28Bountythis isnt the community to have serious discussions and debates... and judge fairly? LOL yeah OK
21:54.29JademusSregYes, many of the debate topics are less than controversial.
21:55.03Clordthen again
21:55.08Clordcool topics can't be made
21:55.11Clordas it would get banned
21:55.13JademusSregHaha.
21:55.16DeathtornRofl
21:55.16JademusSregTouche.
21:55.19BountyDebates could work if Rod made an AI Judge
21:55.28DeathtornWhich would be fun
21:55.28JademusSregYeah right.
21:55.31BountyEveryone on bnet is biased lol
21:55.36BountySo thats the only solution
21:55.38JademusSregLike that would work.
21:55.42Bountyit wouldnt
21:55.43DeathtornEveryone in the world is biased
21:55.45Bountythats what im saying
21:55.45Clordhow AI judge what can't "think" can rate anything
21:55.46Clordfairly
21:55.48DeathtornSpace too
21:56.00BountyNO U deaththorn
21:56.03DeathtornLol
21:56.14DeathtornYou're missing a t
21:56.16Deathtorn>.>
21:56.31JademusSregNaw, he added an h
21:56.33BountyI treat everyone with respect and listen to their point before reaching a conclusion
21:56.35DeathtornWhoops
21:56.37Deathtornyou're right
21:56.41DeathtornFail correction
21:56.44JademusSregHaha
21:56.47Bounty^In April i will reveal what i just said as an April Fools joke
21:56.52Bountyuntil then
21:56.55DeathtornOshit
21:56.55Bountyi am that guy
21:56.56WihlOh my god http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0
21:56.58Wihlthis song
21:57.06ClordI plan do something for april 1st in my map
21:57.09Clordsomething what not ruin matches
21:57.17Wihlcrime against humanity
21:57.18BountyWihl
21:57.22Bountyyou should make a map and use that song
21:57.28Bounty=P
21:57.38DeathtornBBL
21:57.42DeathtornGood luck
21:57.46WihlThat would mean i'd have to listen to it again
21:57.46Deathtornmaking a thinking robot
21:57.47BountyTanku
21:57.50Clordone of ideas was that instead cards spawning their supposed units.. they spawn tauren space marines instead
21:57.50ClordXD
21:57.59BountyI dont think u guys got what i was sayin
21:58.08JademusSregWakka wakka
21:58.11BountyWhen i said the only way to make Debates work was if Rod made an AI Judge
21:58.14Bountyi was basically saying
21:58.19BountyDebates sucks and always will suck
21:58.29BountyBecause it cant be done ><
21:58.35*** join/#sc2mapster grim001 (~chatzilla@c-69-246-170-145.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
21:58.36MotiveAI judge is the most terrible idea I've heard of in my mapping career
21:58.48JademusSregHi grim.
21:58.49BountyPlus the only way to make an AI judge would be to make it biased lol
21:59.11BountyI think its obvious i was joking Motive ><
21:59.22Clordprocesssing power would not be enough yet even run such AI....
21:59.27Bountyexactly
21:59.27Clordlol
21:59.37Bountygod damnit
21:59.39Bountyi should have just said
21:59.40BountyDebates sucks
21:59.43Bountylol
21:59.54Clordfirst AI controlled robots are not gonna be very smart.. but they will get their job done
21:59.58Motivesorry I'm skimming
22:00.00BountyELLO EVERUNE IM HERE TO TALK ABOUT DEBATTEEZZZ
22:00.08Motivetrying to figure out why the fuck I can't modify rotation roll on a unit
22:00.11Motivewhen pitch and yaw work fine
22:00.15Motivethe native just won't take the up vector
22:00.25Clordactually.. he marketed debates well
22:00.28Motiveso I'm trying site ops to make it "enable" that
22:00.30ClordXD
22:00.35Clordeveryone talks from it
22:00.36BountyYeah i have to agree
22:00.37Motivecause the rotation for every unit could be different
22:00.41BountyI enjoyed the Debates videos
22:00.45Bountyfunny shit
22:00.54Bountyi thought the videos were actually in the map
22:01.02ClordI liked Kefka related videos from youtube
22:01.04Bountywhen i learned they werent, i never even tried the map
22:01.04JademusSregMotive, I had similar problems with doodads, to no avail.
22:01.06Clordthat one crazy crazy cosplayer
22:01.08ClordXD
22:01.12BountyLOL Clord
22:01.17Bountyi know what ur talking about
22:01.20Bountyppl are insane
22:01.26Bountyor just really cool and im insane
22:01.43BountyI think Kefka looked cooler as a sprite then any 3D version of him ><
22:01.47Clordbut yeah... what typically cosplayers lack even if they make 99% perfect looking costume
22:01.51Clordis that they can't act their character
22:01.54Clordbut that dude can do it
22:01.55Clordlol
22:01.59Bountylol yeah
22:02.15Bountythe only person who could do it beter then that guy
22:02.23Bountywould be Heath Ledger
22:02.43Clordisn't he who did that crappy Joker performance? meh it is not his fault
22:02.48ClordI just like other type joker better
22:02.49Clordlol
22:02.59Bountyi liked Jacks joker better? meh
22:03.07Bountyreminded me to much of the cartoons lol
22:03.24Clordokay
22:03.28ClordI think I mixed actors up
22:03.48Bountyu mixed up Jack Nicholson with Heath Ledger?
22:04.03Bounty><
22:04.39ClordHeath Ledger did greatest live acted joker performance.. but I still didn't like that he was not "naturally clown white"
22:04.40ClordXD
22:04.46Clordmade joker look too human
22:04.59A1winwell he is a human <.<
22:05.26JademusSregJack Nicholson in Batman did not come off as the Joker; he came off as Jack Nicholson in a bit of drag, like David Bowie glam outfit for the color blind.
22:05.27Clordin more official stuff.... he is naturally albino white.... thanks to chemicals
22:05.27A1winthere are no actual super powers in Batman
22:05.28ClordXD
22:05.52*** join/#sc2mapster JManV (450e9a13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.14.154.19)
22:06.19Clordhaving joekr with healthy skin just makes him insane typical human instead genius what he is.. with insanity
22:06.20A1win...not that having white skin is a super power
22:06.21JManVmiss me?
22:06.36JademusSregYes. <3
22:06.52Clordbatman the animated series
22:06.54Clordthat thing rocked
22:07.01JademusSregYou cannot guess what I endured in your absence.
22:07.19Motivelol well I figured it out, jademus
22:07.22Motivecan't do it dynamically
22:07.26Motivehas to be fucking hardcoded :|
22:07.29JademusSreg=(
22:07.32JademusSregThat is suck.
22:07.34Motivein the actor's SiteOps array
22:07.38Motiveand in the site op itself for the angles
22:08.05Clordmost popular joker variation comes from animated series.... then almost same design was put to that damn batman game what everyone loves..... and now that game is getting sequel... even voice actor is same lol
22:08.38JademusSregWith Mark Hammil.
22:09.06JademusSregMark Hammil is known for his Joker voice.
22:09.34JManVwow. the editor just crahed opening
22:09.34JademusSregFuck, he was better as the Joker than as Luke Skywalker.
22:10.00Clordbatman arkhman asylum game probably was so easy to play from start to finish as they used best joker variation to base villain on....
22:10.16Clordwhat is correct term for batman vs joker
22:10.18Clordlesbians?
22:10.19Clorddunno
22:11.06Clorddamn.. wrong word...
22:11.11grim001hi
22:11.37Motivegrim :O
22:11.39Clordbatman is such plot device with his excuse of "don't kill evil"
22:11.42JademusSregWhat's up?
22:12.13BountyJack Nicholson plays Jack Nicholson in every movie, kinda like Vince Vaughn plays Vince Vaughn
22:12.17Bountyi know im alittle late on that
22:12.20Bountybut whatever
22:12.59Clordlol
22:12.59BountyIf JManV was a super hero he would be Batman, always following teh rulez
22:13.04Bounty><
22:13.08JManVbah
22:13.12JManVnot always
22:13.23JademusSregWhat an odd interpretation of Batman you have.
22:13.24Clordactually.. Gotham has their own rules
22:13.25Clordlol
22:13.33JManVjust the ones where the risk vs reward ratio works against me
22:13.42Clordsome strange reason they don't put bad criminals to jail.... and they don't sentence them to death no matter what
22:13.49JManVyeah, good point about batman
22:13.58JManVbatman doesn't exactly always follow the rules
22:14.32Clordlol
22:14.33Clordtechnically
22:14.40Clordhe is criminal in law's eyes
22:14.50Bountydamn
22:14.52Bountyso i guess
22:14.55Bountyi would be batman
22:14.58Bounty><
22:15.03Clordbut certain people just allow in storylines him to continue as long he somewhat controls himself
22:15.11JademusSregBatman does kill on occasion, anyway. Most of the staple villians are now Arkham regulars, though.
22:15.38Clordin animated series there was episode for "what if" scenario
22:15.58Clordwhere police tried to took batman finalyl down as their boss knew who he was XD
22:16.02JademusSregHey, someone get me a Mary MacGuffin Doll.
22:16.07Clordbut got in that episode reason to do it
22:16.20Clorddamn.. wikipedia time
22:17.38*** join/#sc2mapster harl (harl@dslb-088-076-055-229.pools.arcor-ip.net)
22:18.01A1winhmm I wonder if I should actually use the hyperion armory set as the "base" :o
22:20.45*** join/#sc2mapster Rodrigo (8e239fb1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.35.159.177)
22:21.04Rodrigowho wants to do me a favor for free! :)
22:21.29JademusSregHaha.
22:22.10JManVyeah, that's a pretty loaded question
22:22.53Rodrigo:P
22:23.08A1winhow can I set a unit's default height D:
22:23.14RodrigoI just need someone to bump this thread for me :P
22:23.15Rodrigohttp://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2179759335
22:23.30Rodrigoif you do, I can bump a thread of yours :)
22:23.58A1winerr... why is unit's height in the UI tab :<
22:24.23Rodrigo?
22:24.32*** join/#sc2mapster Queen_WINNING (43ab2844@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.40.68)
22:24.33JManVit's custom map thread in a general forum
22:24.35JademusSregHeight is aesthetic, not gameplay mechanics related.
22:24.38JManVno way i'm gonna bump that
22:25.01JademusSregAt least that's the reasoning, I imagine.
22:25.03Rodrigoits a melee custom map thread in a melee general forum
22:25.24Queen_WINNINGRodrigo, i loved ur comics especially the random one
22:25.32Rodrigolol, ty :)
22:25.45RodrigoI'll be making more comics later
22:27.54Rodrigothank you for bumping my thread :) \o/
22:27.59Bountywow wtf
22:28.03RodrigoI'm at college now. I gotta go eat something
22:28.05BountyJademussreg can u help me with variants :)
22:28.14Bountyi just want everyone to be on their own team, all 8 players and its not working lol
22:28.58*** join/#sc2mapster MrOp (~MrOp@76.76.73.7)
22:28.59*** join/#sc2mapster Cheekything1 (~Cheekythi@host86-145-95-101.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
22:29.03Queen_WINNINGyah variants suck
22:29.03Queen_WINNINGso confusing
22:29.04Rodrigowould say to Bounty to ignore teams because that doesn't make any difference in game since you can make teams by triggers.
22:29.07Queen_WINNINGu still having problems with player 4 being 2 slots?
22:29.28Bountythats actually the issue im having
22:29.30Bountyi have 8 teams
22:29.33Bountysome are 2 slots
22:29.37Bountyeven though i have max team size set to 1
22:29.38Rodrigoalways set the teams on the Initialization triggers. He does't give a shit about variants
22:29.48BountyIt just looks better Rod
22:29.58Rodrigoplayers dont care about it
22:30.21Rodrigoteams = allow parties to join
22:30.27BountyPlayers dont care about alot of things, doesnt mean the developer shouldnt ><
22:30.54JademusSregHaha
22:31.01Rodrigofair enough
22:31.17BountyIf i have everyone on seperate teams locked though parties would be able to join yes?
22:31.26Rodrigojust be careful that putting all players in the same team might not only screw up with the [allies] default chat, but also with parties joining the game
22:31.27JademusSregYeah.
22:31.41Bountyhow do i do it Jade
22:31.44Bountyits not working right
22:31.47Bountysome teams are 2 slots big
22:31.48JademusSregI'd put everyone on the same team, though.
22:31.52Bountyand actually... 14 slots are showing up
22:31.55Bountywith only 8 playres
22:32.08RodrigoI like the players using the [allies] chat as a default because I can play with alliances in game and take some players out of the default chat
22:32.21Rodrigousually 1 single team makes [all] chat as default
22:32.26JademusSregSince teams don't matter in practice, you should minimze the amount of space team related shit occupies on the screen.
22:32.44Bountytell meh how to do this
22:32.48Bountyall on one team
22:32.53Bountyi set alliances on map init anyway so it doesnt matter
22:33.23Rodrigomake 2 teams. one with the players, and the other with a computer
22:33.41Bountycant have one team with no computer?
22:33.47Rodrigoi dunno
22:33.49JademusSregRodrigo, no computers.
22:34.05Rodrigowell, variants are changing COMPLETLY on patch 1.3
22:34.12Rodrigoso, you would have to do all over again anyway
22:34.18Bountyfuck it then
22:34.20Bountyit doesnt matter
22:34.23Bountylol
22:34.25JademusSregBounty, if you're using a computer player for those collision markers, change them to neutral.
22:34.32Bountythey are neutral
22:34.33JademusSreg=)
22:34.42Bountynow tell meh how to do this :)
22:34.45MrOphi
22:34.46Bountybc this was easier last time i mapped
22:34.50Bountynow it keeps fucking up
22:35.24JademusSregWell, if I could remember how to set it, I would tell you. Let me check one of my maps where I do it.
22:35.40Rodrigoset 2 teams as a default. Look for "2 teams" on the variants, and put all the players in the first team "Player 1 Team 1[1]" "Player 2 Team 1[2]" etc
22:35.52*** join/#sc2mapster Kueken (~Kueken@e176224094.adsl.alicedsl.de)
22:36.18grim001current goal: encapsulate most complicated operations into helper functions, thus making this thing readable.
22:36.32JademusSregNice.
22:36.38Rodrigoleave the second team with no one, and lock teams so that players wont be able to move themselves to the second team
22:36.56Bountyhow do i make it so there are no observers/watchers allowed
22:36.57JManVso admins can get zerglings in your map, rod?
22:36.58Bountyit wont let me lock those
22:37.25Rodrigolock the status of each player to be participant and look for an option that disable observers
22:37.37Rodrigothere is an option in the list to disable observers
22:37.43Rodrigojust search it
22:37.50RodrigoI gotta go eat something on the caf
22:37.54Rodrigosee ya
22:37.55JademusSregSet Teams to Custom Teams.
22:37.58Bountyyeah Observer type and Participation Role
22:38.01Bountyit wont let me lock those
22:38.20grim001I'm trying to avoid dealing with arrays directly within the main program.
22:38.23JademusSregSet Team [Custom Teams] to Team 1[1] for each player.
22:38.26grim001makes it more readable that way
22:38.41JManVlongest i've seen him stay in channel in months
22:38.48JademusSregThat's pretty much it, Bounty.
22:39.07Bountywhat abotu the observer/watcher issue
22:39.11Bountyit wont let me lock those lol
22:39.23Bountyor should i just leave them alone
22:39.27JManVdoes it make me a bad person that i reported his post for being in the wrong forum?
22:40.06JademusSregNot at all.
22:40.10JademusSregMakes it hilarious.
22:40.14JManVcuz it makes me feel good
22:40.40Bountylol W T F
22:40.46JademusSregBounty, hide attribute in game lobby for all the shit you don't want visible.
22:40.46Bountynow there are 2 huge teams Jade
22:40.50Bountywhat the hell
22:40.57JManVlast time he did that, he jumped in the chan for like 1 minute, asked everyone to bump his post, and left
22:41.02JManVi disliked it then
22:41.06JademusSregShow me your map, Bounty.
22:41.13JManVthis time, i realized he actually posted in the wrong forum
22:41.20JManVi'll laugh if it gets moved
22:41.24JademusSregSend me the link in a Query
22:41.34Bountyill just send u a picture of the variants
22:41.36Bountyeasy
22:41.37JManVit should get moved, i expect them to do the same with any other thread like that
22:41.56JademusSregAt least click on Team [Custom Teams] so I can see what's going on there.
22:42.00*** join/#sc2mapster Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk)
22:42.08JManVhe's clearly trying to work outside the system because nobody wants to play his map
22:42.23Bountyan shit
22:42.30Bountyhow do u take a picture of ur desktop rofl
22:42.40JManVprint screen button
22:42.46Bountywhere does it save to
22:42.52JManVyour clipboard
22:42.58JManVopen up paint and paste it
22:43.03Bountykk
22:43.05Bountycool thanks :)
22:43.10JademusSregOr photoshop. Or paintshop.
22:43.16JademusSregWhatever you've got.
22:43.30JManVphotoshop if you want to wait 15 minutes for it to load :P
22:43.44JademusSregLoads for me in a few seconds. =)
22:44.02JManVprolly would for me too
22:44.22JManVi haven't used photoshop in a while
22:44.24Bountyhttp://tinypic.com/r/10wmbtt/7
22:44.30JManVgot sick of how bloated and slow it was
22:44.38JademusSregOh all the crappy sites.
22:44.51JManVoh yeah, ALT+Print Screen = capture single window
22:45.03Bountylol
22:45.05*** join/#sc2mapster Shawn|Rawr_ (~chatzilla@ip70-189-159-47.lv.lv.cox.net)
22:45.20JManVi see me in the background!
22:45.26Bounty><
22:45.28JManVi'm syaing "your clipboard"
22:45.40JManVi remember that like it was only yesterday...
22:46.29JademusSregBounty, you didn't set Teams to Custom Teams.
22:46.41Bountyi didnt?
22:46.51Bountyoooh
22:46.51JademusSregIt isn't highlighted red.
22:46.53Bountyyeah
22:46.56Bountythat might help right?
22:47.01JademusSregYeah.
22:47.24JademusSregOtherwise, how does it know what teams you are using? =P
22:47.31Queen_WINNINGThumbs up for Zsnes
22:47.56JademusSregZsnes is nice, Rodrigo's comment wasn't. =)
22:48.03JademusSregPardon, comic.
22:48.07Bountypcsx2 is nice to
22:48.10JademusSregYah.
22:48.15*** join/#sc2mapster Skittles (ad39a794@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.57.167.148)
22:48.25JademusSregI love playing emulated FFT.
22:48.30SkittlesRAWR
22:48.42JademusSregOnce a year of two, I get FFT and play the crap out of it.
22:48.46Bountypcsx2 makes ps2 games look better then ps3 games lol
22:48.47JademusSreg*year or two
22:49.03SkittlesI just slept 17 hours @.@
22:49.05Bountyi also have Dolphin
22:49.09Bountynow THATS an emulator
22:49.14Skittlesnono that cant be right
22:49.18BountyWii games at 1080p are insane
22:49.19JademusSregNo, it's a mammal. =)
22:49.30Bountymakes u wonder why nintendo didnt make the wii hd
22:49.31Skittles12 hours
22:49.33Bountybc it looks so good
22:49.51Bountywoot it worked
22:50.18*** join/#sc2mapster Cintiq (~cintiq@219-90-178-46.ip.adam.com.au)
22:50.49Bountythanks jade
22:50.49Bountyhttp://tinypic.com/r/14y48cn/7
22:50.55Bountyjust so u can see moar desktop goodness
22:51.05Bountynotice how many project files i have
22:51.06Bountyrofl
22:51.19*** join/#sc2mapster deathnight114 (~chatzilla@c-98-247-52-158.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
22:51.24JManVaw. now i can't see myself :(
22:51.42Bountyyeah i kinda pasted over the other picture...
22:51.43Bountyfail
22:51.52*** join/#sc2mapster Shawn|Rawr (~chatzilla@ip70-189-159-47.lv.lv.cox.net)
22:51.59JManVbounty: see where it says "direct link for layouts"
22:52.11JManVlink that instead of the page it sends you to
22:52.22Bountydirect link for layouts?
22:52.34JManVyeah, there's 4 text boxes
22:52.36JManVon tinypic
22:52.41Bountyoh
22:52.50JManVHTML for websites, etc...
22:52.50Bountyso itll send just the box?
22:52.58Bountyoh nvm
22:53.00Bountyi see what u mean
22:53.02Bountyherp derp
22:53.06JManVno big deal
22:53.15JManVit's just easier if you send us directly to the pic
22:53.28JManVdon't have to zoom into it
22:53.38Bountylol@ Icewind Dale shortcut
22:53.54JademusSregWhy not use imgur?
22:53.56Skittlesyoutube isn't down for anybody else right?
22:54.05Skittlessays missing plugin on all the video's for me
22:54.07JademusSregtinypic is tacky as shit, and that's with js disabled.
22:54.35JManVi like that i don't have to sign up
22:54.39BountyHAI GUY
22:54.42BountyLETS RACE
22:54.43Bounty><
22:54.48Bountywith teh new update
22:54.50Skittlesgotta do captcha's now tho
22:54.57JademusSregI'm game.
22:54.58JManVyeah, that does suck about it
22:55.07JademusSregDoes it have victory triggers?
22:55.08Skittlesdropbox then?
22:55.10Bountyyeah
22:55.12Bounty10 laps
22:55.12JademusSregIs the dialog fixed?
22:55.15Bountyits always had them
22:55.17JManVew dropbox
22:55.17Skittles1 sec let me launch
22:55.19Bountyno its the same update we played
22:55.23JademusSregStop it Jman.
22:55.25Bountybut u can win/lose
22:55.30JManVno way i'm gonna load software if i dont want to sign up for anything
22:55.31JademusSregNot everyone wants to run their own servers. =)
22:55.41JManVi use tinypic most of the time
22:55.47Skittlesi used too
22:55.54Skittlesbut dropbox is pretty nifty
22:56.05JManVmy dynamic dns expired, and i haven't bothered to reenstate it :P
22:56.43JademusSregBounty, same number of vehicles?
22:57.00Bountyyes jade
22:57.21JademusSregI'll try a different one this time.
22:57.25*** join/#sc2mapster Skittles (ad39a794@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.57.167.148)
22:57.28Bountyi like the carrier
22:57.34Bountyhe has the lightcycle effect
22:57.34Bountylol
22:58.47Bountyu coming skits?
22:58.48Bountyi got some peeps
23:02.20A1winwhee now I have a cutscene where medivac comes to pick up your mech, mech disappears (would be cooloer if it actually picks it up like a Thor though), flies off, screen fades to black, and then fades back to the hyperion armory setting where your mech is now standing
23:02.53JManVwhy can't it pick up the mech?
23:03.00JManVand what about the spec ops dropship?
23:03.03A1wincan give each player different standing spot so they can see each other... though would be cooler if the medivac actually brought it in
23:03.19A1winI mean pick up as in carry it attached to it
23:03.26JManVwhy can't you?
23:03.39A1winI didn't say I can't, just doesn't do it yet :P
23:03.44JManVoh
23:03.45JManVok
23:04.21A1winmmh yeah should probably use that instead, except when you die, then use the regular medvac
23:04.27A1winmedivac even
23:04.45JManVit just looks so cool
23:04.48A1winhehe I should probably not allow dropping items from the inventory while on the ship :P
23:04.56*** join/#sc2mapster newbie (kvirc@dslb-088-074-178-180.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:05.04A1winor allow but destroy instead of dropping
23:05.17A1winthough selling is smarter anyway
23:05.30A1wincould just replace the drop button with a sell button on the ship
23:07.19A1winhmm cool, I can make it zoom to the mech inside the armory when upgrading parts
23:08.21A1winerr... changing resolution in the armory bugs the camera somehow
23:08.31A1winah yeah, because the bounds are too close
23:09.13JManVyeah. camera bounds suck
23:09.22JManVi wish they'd bound the viewport, not the camera object
23:09.42A1winhuh?
23:09.43JManVi don't want black on the edge of the screen.  is that too much to ask?
23:09.55A1winit bugged *because* they bind the viewport
23:10.18A1winwith smaller resolution, I was able to have the camera closer to the left side of the map
23:10.25A1winI mean narrower aspect ratio
23:10.39A1winbut when I changed to wider ratio, the camera moved right because it was too close to the edge
23:10.42JManVthen why can i bound to region, and if i go to the top left of that region, 3/4 of the screen will be black
23:11.04JManVi don't want any part of what's seen to go outside of that bounds
23:11.20A1winoh.. dunno
23:11.25Skittleslame it cheated
23:11.35JademusSreg?
23:12.23Skittlesit actually said bounty won
23:12.24Skittlespshh
23:12.30JademusSregHah.
23:13.19JManVhe has it hard-coded to say that :P
23:13.33JademusSregHahaha
23:14.27JManVwell, i got icons for my little boys and girls now
23:14.52JManVsomething tells me i'm gonna end up with a disproportunate number of "girls" playing
23:16.38Skittleslol
23:17.10JademusSregHaha
23:17.22*** join/#sc2mapster Rayden (~rayden@ip68-5-22-175.oc.oc.cox.net)
23:17.25JManVcertainly doesn't hurt anything
23:17.43JademusSregJman.
23:17.51JademusSregYou might have people cybering in your map.
23:18.26JademusSregUntil SCU goes public, of course. Then all the RP Server players will make pretend furry bumpin on Ryan's map.
23:18.53A1winmmf I wonder how I should make the mech appear into the armory, now it happens conveniently while screen is black, but other players would still see it just appearing there
23:19.07JManVi can deal with that
23:19.13JManVatleast they'll be playing
23:19.30JManVi mean it's creepy... don't get me wrong
23:19.50JademusSregA1win, make it walk in?
23:19.52A1winah so that's been your plan all along
23:19.59A1winJademusSreg, from space? D:
23:20.09JademusSregHave a dropship drop it off.
23:20.14JademusSregHave a crane lower it.
23:20.19A1winthe door is very small :P
23:20.22A1winah a crane o:
23:20.42A1winthough dunno... mmh
23:20.51JademusSregThe crane from Port Zion.
23:20.58JademusSregMega Crane.
23:21.11JademusSregIt uses other cranes to scratch its back.
23:22.43A1winthat sure looks like something to put into a mech map
23:23.10*** join/#sc2mapster tordy (81317ef7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.49.126.247)
23:23.22tordysup
23:23.39JademusSregStuff.
23:24.19A1winbut it doesn't have a proper animation
23:24.45A1winah well, I'll get back to the graphic stuff later
23:25.12*** join/#sc2mapster JamesObscura (~James@ip98-171-190-124.sb.sd.cox.net)
23:25.34A1winnext thing to do is a transport back to the world cut scene... and then the upgrade/addon system
23:29.35*** join/#sc2mapster Shawn|Rawr (~chatzilla@ip70-189-159-47.lv.lv.cox.net)
23:30.22*** join/#sc2mapster Tobin_ (45497832@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.73.120.50)
23:31.00Tobin-How do i default game chat to all?
23:31.08MrOphi
23:31.14Tobin-Hey
23:33.38A1winhmm... got an interesting idea: what if you could choose between a mech and a zerg/machine hybrid (which would most likely need a custom model in the end) :o
23:33.54A1winthough so would the mech, if done properly
23:34.23A1winbut well, maybe a bit too complex :P I'll just do the mech stuff first and then see if I still feel like it
23:34.35A1win...and if the gameplay even turns out any god
23:34.36A1win*good
23:36.51Queen_WINNINGu making a custom race, A1win
23:36.51Queen_WINNING?
23:37.00Wihlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY
23:37.01Wihlbest troll
23:37.03A1winnah
23:37.15A1winjust a small rpg
23:37.22A1winwith mech as the character
23:37.31A1winwith changeable/upgradeable parts and stuff
23:39.46Queen_WINNINGoh right
23:40.37A1winstill not really sure what the players will actually do when they're not upgrading their mech
23:40.55A1winor maybe I just make a game where you get a constant flow of spare parts to attach to the thing =p
23:41.13*** join/#sc2mapster Shawn|Rawr_ (~chatzilla@ip70-189-159-47.lv.lv.cox.net)
23:41.16A1winfighting is so overrated
23:41.26Queen_WINNINGso i c you have an interest in mechanics stuff and robots?
23:41.33A1winnot really :P
23:41.39JademusSregHaha
23:41.42A1winit was just a convenient setting for the rpg
23:41.58*** join/#sc2mapster MaxMode (~Adium@ip184-187-175-87.sb.sd.cox.net)
23:42.16A1win(and that about fighting was sarcasm :P)
23:42.32Queen_WINNINGu should make a steam punk rpg
23:43.16Queen_WINNINGsetting is 1920s parallel universe where ppl fly in airships
23:43.52A1winlet me know when the models are done :3
23:45.10A1win1920s was interesting even in this universe btw ;o
23:45.23Tobin-haha
23:45.35Tobin-just wait for bioshock 3?
23:45.40Queen_WINNINGin a coming of age story, every kid is given their 1st Mech robot and set out on a pilgramage to seek for the nirvanna-power cell
23:45.53Queen_WINNINGu start as a civ and a small goliath
23:46.15Queen_WINNINGyou go from town to town taking up small quests and get rewarded with fuel, food, shelter and parts
23:46.15A1winis it inside a small ball at first? :E
23:46.32Queen_WINNINGthen Team Rocket comes in
23:46.36*** join/#sc2mapster RaydenUnic (~rayden@ip68-5-22-175.oc.oc.cox.net)
23:46.38Queen_WINNINGand prepares for trouble!
23:46.49Tobin-Team Missile
23:46.51Tobin-haha
23:46.55A1win:P
23:47.03JademusSregGotta avoid those copyrights and trademarks!
23:47.12BountySo Jade, what did u think of that race
23:47.18Bountyi think it went pretty well
23:47.39A1winJManV, you got Team Missile in the map already? o:
23:47.50JademusSregI think it went pretty well
23:48.01JademusSregArdvark didn't seem to like it.
23:48.31Tobin-How do i default game chat to all?
23:48.36Tobin-(if its even possible)
23:48.53BountyArdvark didnt like it bc he said it was hard to control
23:48.56Bountydo you get that issue Jade?
23:49.08Bountymaybe its bc im the host? i find i have no issues steering
23:49.17JademusSregA bit, but hasn't it always been that way?
23:49.23Bountyyeah like
23:49.27JademusSregAnd no, this isn't old battlenet.
23:49.30Bountyit feels like the car has weight to it
23:49.34JademusSregAs host, all you do is set up the game.
23:49.39Bountyatleast thats how it feels to me
23:49.42Bountyhow about u?
23:49.58JademusSregNaw, it would take real physics to give me that feeling.
23:50.05Bountyyeah i know but im saying
23:50.11Bountythats how low my delay is
23:50.14JademusSregI still felt I wasn't getting recharged enough by those pads.
23:50.29Bountyreally? i didnt die once from no charge
23:50.35Bountyill still up it though
23:51.11JademusSregI died several times from no charge, but if you die often enough from no other sources, you probably won't notice.
23:51.13Bountymaybe i should combine the mouse steering with A and D?
23:51.16Tobin-is that your final map bounty? or is that still just a test map?
23:51.26Bountystill a test but its fully playable
23:51.30Bountyand alot more polished
23:51.51JademusSregNow if only your map were more computationally efficient on the trigger side of things. =)
23:52.04Bountyi only have 512kb in triggers
23:52.04Tobin-Oh snap...
23:52.15JademusSregWakka wakka
23:52.20JademusSregSense has just not been made.
23:52.22BountyWHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!?
23:52.24Bountylol
23:52.35JademusSregSize of triggers has nothing to do with computational efficiency.
23:52.38JademusSregI mean, damn.
23:52.59BountyI think your hating bc i dont use the matrix like u
23:52.59JademusSregAnyway, how many triggers are you using that collect input from the player?
23:53.00Bounty=P
23:53.07Bountylet me check
23:53.13JademusSregIn total, across all players.
23:53.38Bountyi only have like 8 triggers
23:53.42Bountythe rest are actions/threaded loops
23:53.44Bountyso they count?
23:53.45Bountylolol
23:54.22JademusSregShawn made a GUI version of my Input capture system.
23:54.47JademusSregIt uses exactly 5 triggers.
23:54.57JademusSregAnd you can just disable the ones you don't use.
23:55.00Bountyok jade
23:55.03Bountyi have 5 loops per player
23:55.13Bountyaction definitions
23:55.31Tobin-I'd like to run your map in the editor once bounty.
23:55.34Bountyn they all run in their own thread
23:55.42Bountyy Tobin?
23:55.43Bountylol
23:55.52Tobin-To steal it.
23:55.55Bounty><
23:55.59JademusSregBounty, that is not even what I am discussing. I am discussing the number of triggers you are using to capture input.
23:56.14Bountyok
23:56.16Bountythen trigger wise
23:56.30Tobin-Nah, i want to see the difference between with no lag time.
23:56.37Bounty1 for key up, 1 for key down, 1 for speed strips, 1 for recharge
23:56.43Bounty1 for checkpoints
23:56.59Bountyannd 1 for unit is idle and one for unit is not idle
23:57.08Bounty7 total
23:58.48Bountyis that bad?
23:58.55Bountyive had ALOT more in other maps lol
23:59.16JademusSregSpeed strips are not input triggers ugh adasudfbndjfnsdfjnf
23:59.27Bountythen wtf defines input
23:59.31Bountyu enter a strip
23:59.34Bountyit does something
23:59.36JademusSregKey, mouse movement, mouse button.
23:59.39Bountyoh
23:59.40Bounty2
23:59.44Bountyone for up one for down
23:59.48Bountyn thats it
23:59.57JademusSregDon't forget mouse buttons,

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