| 00:00.09 | Baanano | can we keep them on addons then? :P |
| 00:01.33 | ZorbaGama | Hmm, maybe! I was going to just pull the names but I'll ask before I do that. |
| 00:03.06 | Ivnedar | They're adding it back in apparently |
| 00:03.11 | Ivnedar | oh, same thread :) |
| 00:03.16 | Baanano | if/when they get removed, it'd be useful to have a field indicate if the auction is "mine" |
| 00:04.17 | ZorbaGama | yeah, I was considering putting that flag in |
| 00:04.31 | ZorbaGama | even though you can do it on your own by just recording which auctions you created :V |
| 00:04.51 | Ivnedar | and hoping you manage to save vars |
| 00:05.04 | ZorbaGama | not even that, just query the player's auctions when the auction house opens |
| 00:05.11 | ZorbaGama | the default UI already does that, in fact, you just have to listen to the messages |
| 00:05.14 | Ivnedar | ooh, that works :) |
| 00:05.40 | Baanano | yes you can correlate auction ids with those from a mine scan, but... that's too much work if you just want to Inspect.Auction.Detail an auction |
| 00:06.16 | ZorbaGama | well, presumably you'd be caching the list of auctions - the nice part is you don't need to do any sort of clever updating because auction IDs are globally unique, so, every time a list of owned auctions comes up, just add 'em all to the owned list |
| 00:06.49 | ZorbaGama | But anyway, given that names are showing up again and therefore don't have to be removed from the addon API even if they *would* have had to be removed before, the entire point is rather moot :) |
| 00:07.08 | Ivnedar | where would we be without theoretical discussions though? :) |
| 00:07.39 | Ivnedar | (probably getting more work done) |
| 00:07.46 | Baanano | well, i didn't interpret they were being added back, but that they issue might be considered in the future |
| 00:07.50 | Ivnedar | (dig at me, not others in here :P ) |
| 00:08.02 | Ivnedar | Gingers said they're working on adding them back in |
| 00:08.11 | Ivnedar | so that would indicate an intent for the information to be there |
| 00:08.12 | ZorbaGama | yeah, there's a post that says they're simply being added back |
| 00:08.16 | Ivnedar | so no reason to remove it from the API |
| 00:08.26 | ZorbaGama | (also afk for a bit, food :) ) |
| 00:08.28 | Baanano | and that's in the same paragraph that said ah isn't a priority anymore :P |
| 00:08.38 | Ivnedar | :D |
| 00:08.41 | Baanano | ah ok, that's good then |
| 00:09.14 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 00:09.33 | seebs | I think recording your own auctions isn't quite reliable because the client sometimes crashes. |
| 00:09.54 | Ivnedar | ZorbaGama was saying that you can query the list of your own auctions |
| 00:10.03 | Ivnedar | or grab the events about them |
| 00:10.06 | Ivnedar | each session |
| 00:20.28 | seebs | Ahh, I see. |
| 00:21.15 | Ivnedar | ah the fun of the network group assuming that the systems group will define all the vlans on the switches and the systems group assuming the network group will |
| 00:21.35 | Ivnedar | hardly surprising that they didn't get defined and therefore hosts moved to them don't work :D |
| 01:33.06 | Ivnedar | huh, this issue over who owns the copyright of a photo that a monkey took is interesting |
| 01:33.18 | Baanano | ? |
| 01:33.53 | Ivnedar | guy went to indonesia, monkey grabbed his camera and started taking photos with it, including a few selfies |
| 01:34.03 | Ivnedar | wikipedia put the image up |
| 01:34.09 | Ivnedar | guy asked that it be taken down |
| 01:34.20 | Ivnedar | wikipedia argued that he wasn't the copyright holder as he didn't take the photo |
| 01:34.35 | Ivnedar | since no human took the photo, it technically has no copyright |
| 01:36.38 | Baanano | lol, was it a good photo, at least? |
| 01:38.03 | Ivnedar | http://gigaom.com/2014/08/06/no-the-monkey-doesnt-hold-the-copyright-on-this-selfie-but-neither-does-the-cameras-owner/ |
| 01:41.13 | Baanano | that's a funny selfie |
| 03:00.09 | Baanano | so, after yesterday's talking about shadows i was curious about state of the art shadow mapping techniques (last time i checked them, the "best" one was PSSM) |
| 03:01.50 | Baanano | i've found it a bit confusing, because people seem to be publishing new different approaches each year |
| 03:02.59 | Baanano | so no idea what is considered state of the art nowadays, but this one (RTW) looks really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc2jhlyOh_U |
| 03:05.52 | Baanano | it's exciting seeing the warping of the shadow texture compared to the conventional approach |
| 03:17.58 | Noshei | Fixed a rare edge case where players could get stuck drowning while on land. |
| 03:18.03 | Noshei | That is amazing |
| 03:18.22 | Noshei | they should have left that in and called it a feature |
| 03:22.19 | *** join/#riftuidev zz_Cidan (~cidan@2605:e000:9fc0:4d:555f:db84:f1b7:b42b) |
| 04:15.31 | Noshei | massive headache and I'm stuck working, blah |
| 04:26.10 | *** join/#riftuidev Jydan (thorarin@D57DD135.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 04:31.55 | *** join/#riftuidev Fisker- (~ballmer@2a01:4f8:d12:1104:d1e:d1e:d1e:d1e) |
| 08:05.17 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Adium@p4FC54E0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:34.33 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 10:34.33 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o ZorbaTHut] by ChanServ |
| 10:49.23 | Ivnedar | hrrm, should the "framerate" of shadows be different to the rest of the client now? |
| 10:49.57 | Ivnedar | environmental shadows look like they're 2-3fps even though the rest of the client is going at 40-50 |
| 10:50.14 | Ivnedar | looking at the ones cast by trees that are swaying in the breeze |
| 10:50.26 | Ivnedar | (maybe it always did that, I've had shadow off for a long long time) |
| 10:51.44 | ZorbaTHut | ivnedar, yep. it's a slight performance reduction that's part of the optimization. some of that may be changable next patch - the feature isn't yet finished |
| 10:51.51 | ZorbaTHut | note that it's only things that are moderately far away from you |
| 10:52.05 | Ivnedar | ah true |
| 10:53.01 | Ivnedar | ~40m |
| 10:53.23 | Ivnedar | looks kinda cool when you move that through a bigger shadow :D |
| 10:53.24 | ZorbaTHut | yep, exactly, in fact :) |
| 10:53.40 | ZorbaTHut | (well . . . technically, 40+(distance from camera to player) from the camera) |
| 10:53.51 | ZorbaTHut | and now that I think about it there's a little rounding also. So not exactly. But close. :) |
| 10:54.14 | Ivnedar | did you say there was a way to turn off the blocky edge blurring? |
| 10:54.45 | ZorbaTHut | if you start turning graphics options down it'll go away |
| 10:54.58 | ZorbaTHut | I'd look at lighting quality and shader quality, I think it's keyed into a combination of those two |
| 10:55.22 | Ivnedar | ok, Shadows: None -> Full drops me from 64fps to 54fps in the same stable area with a few trees casting shadows |
| 10:55.44 | Ivnedar | pretty nice :D |
| 10:55.57 | ZorbaTHut | yep, much better than it used to be :) and it'll be improved further later |
| 10:56.17 | Ivnedar | lighting quality seems to be it |
| 10:56.39 | Ivnedar | 8 is blurred, 7 isn't |
| 10:56.48 | Ivnedar | shader doesn't seem to affect it |
| 10:57.22 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 10:57.36 | ZorbaTHut | huh, maybe it's some other slider |
| 10:58.08 | ZorbaTHut | Also, note that there's two levels of blur, although I'm probably going to be pulling the low blur setting someday because it is essentially a zero performance gain |
| 10:58.12 | Ivnedar | anisotropic filtering controls the detail of the shadow |
| 10:58.41 | Ivnedar | the higher I have it, the more leaves I see in the shadows |
| 10:58.56 | ZorbaTHut | that's weird, it shouldn't have much of an effect. if any. |
| 10:59.21 | Ivnedar | normally at 16, drop it to 0, probably half the leaves showing up in shadows |
| 10:59.28 | Ivnedar | each step between is adding more |
| 10:59.50 | ZorbaTHut | strange, I'll take a look at it |
| 11:00.38 | ZorbaTHut | actually I guess I could imagine that, it's ending up with sharper samples from the leaf textures |
| 11:02.54 | Ivnedar | this is all with fullscreen fx off too, if that makes any difference |
| 11:03.48 | ZorbaTHut | shouldn't, the fullscreen fx don't touch shadows |
| 11:04.08 | Ivnedar | didn't look like it, but figured I'd mention it, any chance I have to have a dig at bloom ;) |
| 11:04.15 | ZorbaTHut | (although ironically shadows themselves are technically a fullscreen effect, as is all of our lighting, but there's a reason why we categorize things based on expectation rather than based on implementation) |
| 11:07.12 | Ivnedar | It is rather awesome to be able to play with shadows on again :D |
| 11:07.38 | ZorbaTHut | yay :D |
| 11:07.44 | ZorbaTHut | I take it the framerate drop beforehand was much larger? |
| 11:08.05 | Ivnedar | yeah, I'd bounce around 20-30 |
| 11:08.19 | Ivnedar | that's with everything max |
| 11:08.23 | Ivnedar | so I could have played with it I guess |
| 11:08.24 | ZorbaTHut | ouch. yeah, big improvement |
| 11:10.49 | Ivnedar | Oh, did you mean that the 40m may become a slider in future? |
| 11:12.09 | ZorbaTHut | no, more that we'll be handling dynamic objects in a slightly different way that will allow us to get most of the performance benefit while still giving full dynamic shadows at long distances |
| 11:12.41 | ZorbaTHut | which will probably end up behind an option |
| 11:12.56 | Ivnedar | *nod* |
| 11:12.56 | ZorbaTHut | and I might well pull "environmental only", it's kind of pointless now |
| 11:13.42 | Ivnedar | maybe an option to disable dynamic object shadows instead? |
| 11:14.23 | ZorbaTHut | it sounds like a nice idea . . . but keep in mind dynamic objects includes "trees" |
| 11:14.30 | Ivnedar | yup |
| 11:14.50 | ZorbaTHut | so, realistically, I'm not sure anyone would prefer that over the 3fps long-distance tree shadows |
| 11:15.01 | Ivnedar | fair enough :D |
| 11:15.08 | ZorbaTHut | and keep in mind those shadows cost effectively zero performance :V |
| 11:15.54 | Ivnedar | ah, I'd assumed they were more expensive performance wise than the static environment ones |
| 11:16.18 | ZorbaTHut | the reason they're getting that stuttering is because they're being rendered as static, because right now we can only split objects by distance and not by type |
| 11:16.27 | ZorbaTHut | everything past 40m is considered static, everything closer is considered dynamic |
| 11:16.34 | Ivnedar | oh, I get it |
| 11:19.27 | Ivnedar | how does that work where the shadow is partly <40m? |
| 11:20.04 | Ivnedar | 2 shadows rendered I guess? |
| 11:21.03 | ZorbaTHut | each object is rendered in all shadow cascades anyway, then we project those shadow cascades onto the world. Shadowing is actually a pretty neat subject - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee416307(v=vs.85).aspx here's an intermediate-level rundown on the system that basically every modern game uses |
| 11:21.18 | Ivnedar | thanks |
| 11:21.43 | ZorbaTHut | sadly nobody's come up with a better system yet :/ |
| 11:22.56 | Ivnedar | I'm roaming around Eastern Holdings amongst some trees playing with shadows :) |
| 11:24.26 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I've done that a lot :V |
| 11:27.30 | Ivnedar | Interesting watching people try to change sale behaviour with the ah changes |
| 11:27.42 | Ivnedar | a lot more people trying to sell things in cross events instead of the ah |
| 11:28.01 | Ivnedar | when the item you're selling is 10k and may take a few weeks to find a buyer, it's costly |
| 11:28.08 | ZorbaTHut | the AH thing has been rather comical. I think it'll all die down - the reason people used the AH was never due to the low fees, it was because trying to sell in trade channels sucks |
| 11:28.20 | Ivnedar | yeah, the timing sucks |
| 11:28.22 | ZorbaTHut | and now that we're down to 5% fees per week, the AH is just the better option |
| 11:28.29 | Ivnedar | a few hours ago, people were trying to buy the same item for 10k |
| 11:28.34 | Ivnedar | now someone's trying to sell and the buyers aren't on |
| 11:28.58 | ZorbaTHut | yeah. and when it all comes down to it, paying 20% fees before selling an item for 10k is still a lot better than paying no fees and selling the item for 2k. |
| 11:29.23 | Ivnedar | that assumes it sells |
| 11:29.44 | ZorbaTHut | True . . . but if you can't sell an item in *an entire month* on the AH, you're not gonna have a lot of luck off the AH |
| 11:30.42 | ZorbaTHut | sigh, this is totally going to break people's addons unless I convince them to make some implementation changes |
| 11:30.56 | ZorbaTHut | Well, time to go to work and see if I can avoid breaking bananah entirely :V |
| 11:31.06 | Ivnedar | good luck! :) |
| 11:31.46 | Ivnedar | Can you claim time spent in here as partial work hours? Doing community relations and support? :D |
| 11:44.38 | Imhothar | hmm I thought cascaded shadow maps were patented |
| 11:45.01 | Imhothar | pretty sure trapezoidal shadow maps are |
| 12:10.17 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Adium@p4FC54E0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:22.19 | Ivnedar | ahh, ok, so the set/clear waypoint is the blue x you put down when right clicking on the map |
| 12:22.31 | Ivnedar | could be handy to automate routes I guess |
| 12:33.29 | *** join/#riftuidev borbra (~quassel@ti0033a400-6088.bb.online.no) |
| 13:43.04 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 13:47.12 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 13:50.24 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 13:52.45 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 13:52.45 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 13:53.09 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 14:00.52 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 14:11.34 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:39.28 | *** join/#riftuidev borbra_ (~quassel@ti0033a400-6088.bb.online.no) |
| 16:01.37 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Adium@ppp-93-104-186-60.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:02.05 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar_ (~Imhothar@ppp-93-104-186-60.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:32.26 | *** join/#riftuidev Baanano (~chatzilla@212.122.123.164.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 21:16.14 | ZorbaTHut | baanano, checked in a fix for Command.Auction.Analyze() - it should be in any patch deployed tomorrow or later. (though I think at this point we'll just be waiting for a normal tuesday patch) |
| 21:26.39 | *** join/#riftuidev jeffreyhamby (~quassel@216.136.24.180) |
| 23:01.01 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 23:01.02 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |