| 00:02.58 | Noshei | you missed out on Aion then, that was a really fun game, imo |
| 00:03.15 | Noshei | though I guess you wouldn't have liked it since it included open world pvp |
| 00:03.41 | *** join/#riftuidev Cairenn (~Owner@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 00:03.41 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 00:17.25 | seebs | Yeah, pretty much. |
| 00:17.40 | seebs | It turns out that if I really dislike an experience, missing out on it doesn't bother me. |
| 00:31.39 | Amadeus- | my how things have changed in 20 years: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/07/24/ohio-state-band-waters.html ....when I was in college I don't think it would have ever occurred to us to even complain about such things. and the notion that "parents" affect universities is scary... |
| 00:37.50 | seebs | I dunno, it makes some sense. I mean, the universities tend to ignore things the students tell them, because they're only listening to other Adults. |
| 00:39.44 | Ivnedar | universities don't want to be told there's a problem |
| 00:40.04 | Ivnedar | anyone who doesn't tell them everything is fine finds their career not going too well |
| 00:40.23 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 00:40.34 | Amadeus- | Yea, the examples given there are pretty heinous and really should have been stopped. But, they're also traditions going back..literally 50 years. |
| 00:40.41 | seebs | I mean, look at the horrible problems with the Sandusky case. They spent an amazing amount of time Not Noticing. |
| 00:41.03 | Amadeus- | firing just seems a little extreme though ..especially a guy that does a REALLY good job otherwise. |
| 00:41.12 | seebs | Traditions are a major source of ongoing bad behavior, because they're partially exempt from usual social mores. |
| 00:42.03 | Amadeus- | yea, I don't disagree that they were bad and need to be changed/removed. But, a dictate from the upper administration could have made that happen easily. And, I don't care what any of them say, they ALL know those traditions exist ...anyone that's been to a university know they exist ..lol. |
| 00:42.26 | Amadeus- | about 10 years ago the same story happened at Wisconsin ...but, it was easily fixed without a firing ..and the examples were much worse. |
| 00:42.46 | Amadeus- | and even involved cheerleaders (because the band and cheerleaders travel together at Wisconsin.) |
| 00:42.56 | Ivnedar | the executive of the university can be seen to be taking a hard stance against that behaviour when it comes to light by firing the top person who knew about it |
| 00:43.02 | Ivnedar | as long as they didn't know about it, they're safe |
| 00:43.08 | Ivnedar | which is why they don't want to know about anything |
| 00:43.46 | Amadeus- | I suppose ....it's fine with me honestly, the guy got paid enough to know better ....being the marching band director at Ohio State is not much different than being a head football coach ..it's a VERY public position and comes with all the trappings of that. |
| 00:44.04 | Amadeus- | it's the 3rd or 4th band director to get fired recently that I know of |
| 00:44.29 | Amadeus- | Illinois lost theirs because he was selling instruments and putting hte money in his bank account ....and this was a guy making $130k a year as a professor .... |
| 00:44.47 | Amadeus- | another one, from Tennessee, got fired because he kept talking shit about the administration/athletics |
| 00:44.49 | Ivnedar | yeah, once the first one goes, people start looking closer, or are slightly less scared of talking about it |
| 00:45.37 | Amadeus- | (I'm a college band director in real life ..lol ...a division I NCAA school ..but wayyyy less significant than a Big 10 school.) |
| 00:45.48 | Amadeus- | I don't do the marching band either ...I pay someone to do it ..haha |
| 00:46.45 | Amadeus- | another band director ...actually the CEO of Kappa Kappa Psi (the honorary band co-ed fraternity) got busted for soliciting a prostitute this year ..haha. So, he got fired too ..ahah. |
| 00:49.46 | Ivnedar | hee hee, might have to check out Trove again |
| 00:49.53 | Ivnedar | "Drift-Racing Corgis" |
| 01:13.29 | seebs | Aaand we're back to having someone who spends hours on end spamming /4 with racial slurs because he's convinced no action will be taken. He may be right, although it'd be a bad sign if they've given up on dealing with that kind of problem. |
| 01:48.43 | Noshei | gah, im so tired today |
| 02:12.41 | *** join/#riftuidev Amadeus (~amadeus@wsp034843wss.netadm.calpoly.edu) |
| 03:15.13 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, bad phrasing on my part there - "it will be a far smaller impact than it used to be". as in, turning shadows on won't hurt your framerate anywhere near as bad |
| 03:15.49 | seebs | oooooh |
| 03:16.12 | seebs | I switched them off because I go from 24 to 42 or so with shadows off. |
| 03:16.49 | ZorbaTHut | if I had to make an estimate, I'd say . . . 36 with them on, maybe? |
| 03:17.04 | ZorbaTHut | Vague ballpark figure at best, note. |
| 03:17.27 | seebs | The cutoff for "looks smooth" for me tends to be around 35-40, somewhere. Depending on health and caffeine and such. |
| 03:18.00 | ZorbaTHut | there's also a rather significant optimization in the fullscreen FX that should reduce its load quite a bit |
| 03:18.07 | ZorbaTHut | though I'd have a hard time estimating the amount |
| 03:18.34 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 03:19.03 | seebs | I can't even measure a change from fullscreen fx right now. |
| 03:19.18 | seebs | If I just sit where I am, I get 40-42fps, and toggling fullscreen FX has no effect at all. |
| 03:19.24 | seebs | Except everything looks darker. |
| 03:19.30 | ZorbaTHut | hrm. maybe it wasn't categorized under that. if you stare directly into the sun, does the radial blur effect turn off when you turn off fullscreen FX? |
| 03:19.55 | seebs | I can't find any sun where I am. Hmm. |
| 03:20.00 | Noshei | lol |
| 03:20.06 | seebs | It's cloudy. |
| 03:20.22 | Noshei | not the real sun, the in game sun! |
| 03:20.27 | ZorbaTHut | (I think the patch notes say something like "improved framerate when not staring at the sun. Don't stare at the sun, kids.") |
| 03:20.49 | seebs | aaand it's night in my dimension |
| 03:21.00 | ZorbaTHut | welp |
| 03:21.20 | seebs | I blame society. |
| 03:22.07 | seebs | Oh, hey, I have other dims. Maybe one of them is in day. |
| 03:22.13 | seebs | nope |
| 03:22.19 | Noshei | go to TB |
| 03:22.25 | seebs | You know, FF14 has a really useful thing. |
| 03:22.32 | seebs | Which is that you can display local, server, or *game* time. |
| 03:22.45 | ZorbaTHut | yeah I think the day-night cycle is in lockstep everywhere, with the exception of places that have manually-overridden day settings |
| 03:22.49 | ZorbaTHut | like TB, so, yeah, go there :V |
| 03:23.23 | ZorbaTHut | amusingly, TB actually does have a day-night cycle - the lighting gets brighter and darker depending on time. Sun stays in the exact same spot though. |
| 03:23.24 | seebs | Yeah. But then I have to navigate all the way back here. I was out cleaning up my full carnage quest log, which had 25 partially-done quests. |
| 03:23.31 | ZorbaTHut | ah, fair |
| 03:24.07 | seebs | Well, I'm more curious than concerned with that. |
| 03:24.16 | Noshei | whats your in game name an server seebs? |
| 03:24.32 | seebs | .... huh, that's odd. |
| 03:24.36 | seebs | I'm in TB and it's night. |
| 03:24.41 | ZorbaTHut | but anyway, if I had to guess, I'd say that your computer is heavily cpu-bound and not very gpu-bound. the fullscreen FX is going to be entirely GPU, so it may just not be influencing performance at all |
| 03:25.13 | seebs | That seems likely. |
| 03:25.23 | ZorbaTHut | the shadow optimizations, conveniently, hit both GPU and CPU roughly equally, so it should make it faster for everyone |
| 03:25.43 | seebs | FWIW, geforce 670, i7 that's not super recent. |
| 03:25.58 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I could believe that easily, then |
| 03:25.59 | seebs | Claims to be 3.5GHz, it's a 3770K. |
| 03:26.25 | Noshei | yeah the sun does change a lot with fullscreen FX |
| 03:26.45 | seebs | Noshei: Faeblight, and I have a ton of characters, but currently mostly on Merisioux. |
| 03:27.03 | Noshei | it looks more like the moon with fs FX turned off |
| 03:27.31 | ZorbaTHut | I suspect that's at least partially bloom - can you see a radial-blur effect extending from the corners of objects near the sun? |
| 03:27.32 | seebs | I don't know of any way to find out what the in-world time is. |
| 03:27.37 | ZorbaTHut | it's sort of a god-ray effect |
| 03:29.30 | Noshei | http://i.imgur.com/FV3kIBn.jpg fs FX off |
| 03:29.31 | ZorbaTHut | I think I meant to add an Inspect.Time() function for inworld time |
| 03:29.39 | ZorbaTHut | don't think I've ever done so, though |
| 03:29.42 | Noshei | http://i.imgur.com/xPbmDQS.jpg fs FX on |
| 03:30.00 | ZorbaTHut | hmm, can't see what I'm looking for in either of them :V |
| 03:30.07 | seebs | Huh, this is interesting. |
| 03:30.11 | ZorbaTHut | one sec, lemme finish updating |
| 03:30.13 | ZorbaTHut | (it's been a while) |
| 03:30.20 | seebs | antialiasing makes no difference in frame rate. |
| 03:30.33 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, edge smoothing or multisampling? |
| 03:30.47 | seebs | supersampling-vs-none. |
| 03:30.56 | ZorbaTHut | hah, *definitely* CPU bound then |
| 03:30.59 | seebs | I don't see a frame rate difference. But I think it made a noticeable difference when I had shadows on. |
| 03:31.19 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, shadows hits the CPU pretty dang hard. multisampling is effectively a zero cpu penalty |
| 03:31.30 | seebs | My assumption has been that Rift is almost invariably CPU-bound, just because I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone reporting a frame rate difference from video card upgrades. |
| 03:31.35 | ZorbaTHut | although after I do the next set of shadow optimizations, after 2.8, shadows will be a *very* small CPU hit |
| 03:31.51 | ZorbaTHut | it's gotten a lot better than it used to be |
| 03:31.59 | ZorbaTHut | but yeah, it's still pretty heavy CPU, unfortunately :/ |
| 03:32.15 | seebs | And, in general, very prone to One Very Busy Thread. |
| 03:32.36 | ZorbaTHut | yep, though that's not nearly as avoidable as people might want |
| 03:32.38 | seebs | Thus, the default behavior usually ends up looking like about 1.2 cores fully loaded, and everything else idle. |
| 03:32.46 | ZorbaTHut | and it's also gotten a whole lot better over time |
| 03:33.30 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 03:34.05 | ZorbaTHut | most of the CPU hit right now is actually rendering and UI, though there's some pretty painful game logic stuff as well |
| 03:34.21 | Noshei | is fs FX just a crap load of bloom? |
| 03:34.24 | ZorbaTHut | (UI rendering and updating, specifically) |
| 03:34.40 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, bloom's part of it, there's some other effects included. I think underwater vignetting is part of it |
| 03:35.06 | ZorbaTHut | there's also the twisted-artifact effect |
| 03:35.36 | Noshei | yeah its probably the bloom that does it for me though, I hate bloom |
| 03:35.39 | seebs | I would love that to be a separate toggle. |
| 03:35.55 | seebs | I actually like bloom, but the weird-refracty-mirrors on the side of the screen are pretty horrible. |
| 03:36.00 | Noshei | just makes everything look so ethereal |
| 03:36.38 | Noshei | and not in a good way, imo |
| 03:37.23 | Noshei | also makes things feel slightly blurred |
| 03:40.27 | seebs | I am still trying to crash the UI by artifact-hunting. |
| 03:40.41 | seebs | Huh, that's odd. There's only one unicornalia quest available, and it's PvP. |
| 03:40.54 | ZorbaTHut | dear rift, where did you put my screenshot |
| 03:41.13 | Noshei | my documents/rift/screenshots/ |
| 03:41.38 | seebs | So there is a mystery. Which is that if you have enough artifact sets that the window acquires a scrollbar... |
| 03:41.44 | ZorbaTHut | http://i.imgur.com/G2cDsh7.jpg see the radial blur effect near the leaves? that was wasting a whole ton of GPU time :( |
| 03:41.46 | seebs | The window scrolls down about 2/3 further than there is content in it. |
| 03:41.57 | seebs | Ohhh, yeah, I've seen that. |
| 03:42.16 | ZorbaTHut | (and yeah, that's part of fullscreen fx) |
| 03:42.39 | Noshei | gah, that makes my head hurt |
| 03:43.38 | seebs | So are you removing that effect, or just making it more efficient? |
| 03:43.47 | ZorbaTHut | just making it more efficient |
| 03:45.05 | seebs | I would be just fine with the omen sight thing just being a green glow that doesn't shimmer-and-reflect, because those reflections are a source of pain. |
| 03:49.33 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, it's a bit more visually distracting than it really should be for something you're intended to keep up at all times |
| 03:50.30 | seebs | It should also perhaps be a toggle instead of a timed buff. :P |
| 03:50.34 | seebs | Huh, this is odd. |
| 03:50.45 | seebs | So there's a thing telling me to go to Sanctum or Meridian for Unicornalia. |
| 03:50.49 | seebs | Which I've never done, I don't think. |
| 03:51.07 | seebs | There's three questgivers, one with a purple daily-quest thing, and two with grey checkmarks. |
| 03:51.25 | seebs | And the daily-quest thing is PvP. And it seems like there's almost certainly some sort of non-PvP content in the event. |
| 03:57.51 | seebs | oh-hoh! |
| 03:57.58 | seebs | I picked up the other quests last time around and forgot I had them. |
| 03:58.03 | ZorbaTHut | hah |
| 03:58.13 | ZorbaTHut | well . . . at least you can do 'em now! |
| 03:58.22 | Ivnedar | lol, one google interview question has stopped all work here for the last hour and a half now |
| 03:58.22 | seebs | And my quest log is perpetually overfull so I had no idea. |
| 03:58.30 | Ivnedar | the adultery village one |
| 03:58.38 | ZorbaTHut | that's one thing I've really started appreciating about Defiance. No quest log; you are on, at most, one quest at a time |
| 03:58.47 | ZorbaTHut | but the world map shows the locations of every single quest you can do |
| 03:58.54 | seebs | TSW's very limited quest pool is sort of a mixed bag. |
| 03:58.59 | ZorbaTHut | so if you want to go do a quest, you just pop open the map, choose a quest, and drive over to it |
| 04:00.24 | Ivnedar | I do wonder if a raiding pve game could survive if you could drop in roll a max level toon, grab gear and go |
| 04:00.39 | Ivnedar | remove the rpg bit |
| 04:01.09 | ZorbaTHut | ivnedar, same as the blue eyes/green eyes question, I think? I'll admit I've never been satisfied with the answer |
| 04:01.30 | ZorbaTHut | oh, blue/brown, not blue/green |
| 04:01.41 | seebs | Well, the version of it I found is broken, because it says the wife has to kill the husband immediately, so of course, they can't comply with the law anyway, because there's no way for them to go back in time and do that. |
| 04:01.49 | Ivnedar | 100 couples in a village, every male has cheated, every female knows instantly if another husband cheats, but doesn't know if their own has |
| 04:02.07 | Ivnedar | immediately upon being able to prove 100% that they cheated |
| 04:02.11 | seebs | If you fix up the wording, the obvious answer is that all N of them will kill their husbands after N days, or something very close to that... Except of course that people don't work that way. See also unexpected tigers. |
| 04:02.43 | Ivnedar | some of the wording is about how every female follows the letter of the law |
| 04:02.47 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, part of the problem is that you assume everyone is perfectly logical |
| 04:02.56 | Ivnedar | and that :) |
| 04:02.57 | seebs | Yeah. And that doesn't work. |
| 04:03.04 | Ivnedar | not when females are involved! |
| 04:03.05 | Ivnedar | hides |
| 04:03.17 | seebs | The thing is, once N is more than 3-5, you can't actually *prove* anything, because for all you know someone else isn't good at logic puzzles. |
| 04:04.18 | ZorbaTHut | Three logicians walk into a bar. The bartender says, "does everyone want beer?" The first logician says "I don't know". The second logician says "I don't know". The third logician says "Yes!" |
| 04:04.24 | seebs | Heh. |
| 04:07.09 | seebs | I did a horrible thing once to a bunch of puzzle fans. |
| 04:07.41 | seebs | I gave them a liars-and-truthtellers puzzle constructed so that most people unfamiliar with the genre got it right away, and most experienced logic puzzle people were still stumped a week later. |
| 04:08.06 | ZorbaTHut | hah, beautiful |
| 04:08.12 | ZorbaTHut | how was it set up? |
| 04:08.22 | seebs | Long complicated thing, there's liars, truthtellers, and people who do either. |
| 04:08.30 | ZorbaTHut | *nod* |
| 04:08.48 | seebs | Question: Can you, by asking a single question with no compound clauses or references to the other villagers, determine which of the paths leads to safety? |
| 04:08.50 | seebs | Answer: No. |
| 04:09.51 | ZorbaTHut | hah. |
| 04:11.46 | Ivnedar | I just asked that question here, derailed the villager one |
| 04:12.21 | seebs | Basically, you can't do it because the people who can either lie or tell the truth don't have to be consistent, and you can't build up a complicated enough structure to try to bypass that. |
| 04:12.50 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that's sorta the killer metaquestion of liars-and-truthtellers |
| 04:13.06 | ZorbaTHut | where at some point it turns out, no, you can't solve the question in the most pessimistic case |
| 04:14.20 | seebs | People just get used to hearing "How do you" when you actually say "can you". |
| 04:14.30 | seebs | Similarly, for a whole lot of the standard ones, the answer is "yes". |
| 04:14.51 | Ivnedar | Yeah, they got the answer here in a few mins when they latched on to "did you say can you?" |
| 04:15.13 | seebs | They're better at metagaming than the crowd I tried it on. |
| 04:15.48 | ZorbaTHut | if anyone wants an actual conventional puzzle - there is a four-pointed table in the middle of the room. each corner contains a coin underneath an upside-down bowl. if at any point all four coins are heads-up *or* all four coins are heads-down, you win. you must pick two bowls, reveal their coins, flip either or both or neither of them, and put the bowls back on top. you must then leave the room and the table will be rotated an unknown amoun |
| 04:15.48 | ZorbaTHut | t; then you come back in and repeat the process. can you force a win? |
| 04:15.59 | ZorbaTHut | (no wacky metagaming stuff here, no trickery or bowl marking or whatever) |
| 04:16.51 | ZorbaTHut | and by "force a win" I mean "a logical process that guarantees a win even if your opponent is an all-powerful time-traveling probability-controlling demigod" :V |
| 04:17.27 | seebs | I've seen a win for that one, though I don't remember how. |
| 04:17.57 | ZorbaTHut | I like this puzzle because, at least for my tastes, it's just the right length. a bit tricky and a few clever things you need to do, but not some kind of horrible hundred-step process |
| 04:18.43 | seebs | Okay, let's see. I think you have to at least once pick opposite corners and at least once adjacent corners. |
| 04:19.04 | seebs | Okay, start with picking opposite sides. Set both coins to H. |
| 04:19.52 | Ivnedar | Have you watched No Game No Life? |
| 04:20.19 | Ivnedar | anime |
| 04:20.42 | seebs | Not familiar with it. |
| 04:21.17 | ZorbaTHut | I haven't, is it good? |
| 04:22.12 | Ivnedar | Yeah, rather good. |
| 04:22.21 | ZorbaTHut | I shall check it out |
| 04:22.41 | seebs | *pondering* Hmm. I think you may have to use adjacent sides first. |
| 04:22.42 | Ivnedar | the whole "even if your opponent is an all-powerful time-traveling probability-controlling demigod" bit reminded me of that :) |
| 04:23.18 | seebs | Well, okay, I'll run with it a bit. You set both coins to H. Either you've won or you now have HHTT or HHHT. |
| 04:23.33 | seebs | Or rather, HTHT or HHHT. |
| 04:24.13 | seebs | So now you leave, come back, and pick opposite coins. If you get any tails, set them both to H and you've won. If you get HH, set them to TT. Either you've won, or it's now TTTH. |
| 04:25.02 | seebs | *pondering* But at that point, I'm not sure how to guarantee that, no matter what, when you pick two corners, you get two of the kind you've got three of. |
| 04:25.12 | seebs | Or rather, don't-get. |
| 04:25.48 | Ivnedar | No Game No Life is heavy on the Xanatos Gambit |
| 04:26.03 | seebs | *thinking* Well, if you pick two opposite corners, and get two of the thing you know you have three of, and flip either of them, the board is now TTHH. |
| 04:26.27 | seebs | Ah-hah. |
| 04:26.44 | seebs | So you pick two adjacent corners. If they match, flip them and you won. If they don't, flip them and it's definitely HTHT. |
| 04:26.49 | seebs | Whereupon, pick two opposite corners and flip. |
| 04:26.53 | ZorbaTHut | Yep :) |
| 04:27.16 | ZorbaTHut | there's a few valid solutions, but they all take that basic form of forcing the board into a single known state, then forcing that state into a win |
| 04:28.32 | seebs | My favorite brainteaser ever was the directly-downwind-faster-than-the-wind one. |
| 04:29.07 | seebs | Because it is SO OBVIOUS that it can't be done, and eventually the people arguing that it could got the north american land sailing people to create a records category for it just so they could have multiple layers of very careful official scrutiny when they did it. |
| 04:30.51 | ZorbaTHut | yeah that's definitely one of those brainbending things |
| 04:31.40 | seebs | The basic framing: If you have a purely wind-powered vehicle, can it go directly downwind faster than windspeed on a level surface as a steady state (not relying on, say, spinning up a flywheel first)? Answer: Yes. Physics is really weird. |
| 04:32.18 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I've seen the device they built. It was . . . surprising |
| 04:32.40 | Ivnedar | I like the one about a plane on a conveyor belt |
| 04:33.02 | Ivnedar | as the plane accelerates, the conveyor belt moves in the opposite direction |
| 04:33.05 | Ivnedar | so the plane stays still |
| 04:33.08 | Ivnedar | can the plane take off |
| 04:33.10 | seebs | I eventually came up with an analogy for it that I could make enough sense of to use. |
| 04:33.40 | seebs | Hmm. I wouldn't think you *could* make the conveyor belt move back fast enough, the plane's wheels aren't really doing anything except reducing its friction with that surface. |
| 04:34.00 | Ivnedar | there are long arguments about that question all over aviation and space forums |
| 04:34.06 | Ivnedar | with big names on both sides |
| 04:34.10 | ZorbaTHut | the problem with the plane one is that it's inadequately defined |
| 04:34.26 | ZorbaTHut | "so the plane stays still" is ambiguous and, with some definitions, impossible |
| 04:34.33 | Ivnedar | relative to the ground |
| 04:35.10 | ZorbaTHut | still inadequately defined. What force does the conveyer belt use to keep the plane on the ground? |
| 04:35.12 | Ivnedar | so the horizontal thrust generated by the plane's engines is exactly negated by the conveyor belt |
| 04:35.24 | seebs | I don't think that's *possible*. |
| 04:35.32 | seebs | The wheels pretty much spin freely. |
| 04:35.33 | ZorbaTHut | if it's transmitting force through the landing gear, the landing gear will be destroyed long before it has enough force to slow down the plane |
| 04:35.37 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 04:36.06 | ZorbaTHut | if it's slowing down the plane through sheer aerodynamics, by dragging along enough air with it that it holds the plane back, then yes, the plane takes off easily - in fact you've invented a way that a 777 can VTOL |
| 04:36.15 | ZorbaTHut | but I'd hate to do the math on how fast it needs to move for that |
| 04:36.48 | seebs | Woo, got several more carnage quests off my list. |
| 04:36.49 | ZorbaTHut | and you'd still destroy the landing gear before you got enough air moving |
| 04:36.51 | seebs | My carnage list filled up. |
| 04:36.55 | ZorbaTHut | congrats :) |
| 04:36.58 | Ivnedar | seebs: grats! |
| 04:37.06 | seebs | I'm down to 17/25 now. |
| 04:37.07 | Ivnedar | ooh, do I need to update carnage book yet? |
| 04:37.34 | Ivnedar | I know they were adding more |
| 04:37.44 | Ivnedar | though, I was lazy and included the python script to generate a new data file in the addon :P |
| 04:38.37 | Ivnedar | google for plane conveyor belt to see the number of discussions about it :D |
| 04:40.29 | seebs | Not-very-related, but I was indirectly reminded of it by the talk of updating addons. |
| 04:40.43 | seebs | So, I hang out with a lot of the RPers, because I maintain what is now effectively "the" RP addon. |
| 04:40.49 | seebs | There was another one but I guess the devs left. |
| 04:41.17 | Ivnedar | I wanted to make one that was a location/unit triggered event system |
| 04:41.28 | Ivnedar | so you could make your own quests and content to share around that worked in that framework |
| 04:41.37 | seebs | So at one point, there were people having an argument about something or other about preferred RP activities, and someone made the statement that, in general, if you want a given kind of RP, you should just go seek it out, because you will always get out of the community what you put into it. |
| 04:41.46 | seebs | (Yeah. I want dimension storage for exactly that.) |
| 04:42.11 | seebs | Anyway, I pointed out that I sorta liked some of the stuff people were talking about, but that not enough people are into it for there to be a stable thing for it. |
| 04:42.25 | seebs | And one of the people got all in my face about "well, I don't know who you are, what have YOU ever done for the RP community." |
| 04:42.30 | seebs | ... Turns out he didn't know all my alts. |
| 04:42.36 | Ivnedar | :D |
| 04:42.44 | Ivnedar | "Don't you know who I am??" |
| 04:42.50 | seebs | Pretty much. |
| 04:43.15 | seebs | I mean, I am fine with people having different preferences, I just don't like it when they get all "well it's your fault other people don't share your interests" about it. |
| 06:02.03 | Ivnedar | heh heh, someone posted a list of lua bugs to the wildstar forums with examples of how to crash the client, saying that carbine should upgrade to 5.2.3 |
| 06:02.18 | Ivnedar | My response would be "well, don't run those code snippets ..." |
| 06:14.17 | Ivnedar | ZorbaTHut: do you patch those sort of bugs out of the luajit rift uses, or is it a case of "well, don't run that"? |
| 06:14.37 | Ivnedar | I imagine backporting fixes would be a pain to manage |
| 06:16.08 | ZorbaTHut | ivnedar, we've had one cherrypicked fix, but in general we just update luajit to the latest version |
| 06:16.21 | ZorbaTHut | haven't done it in a while though |
| 06:16.28 | Ivnedar | ah, and the luajit people choose whether or not to backport fixes from lua? |
| 06:16.44 | ZorbaTHut | it's honestly not really "backport" anymore, the codebases are so separate that no porting is possible |
| 06:16.54 | Ivnedar | *nod* |
| 06:16.56 | ZorbaTHut | and note that luajit is ignoring most of the 5.2 changes |
| 06:17.03 | Ivnedar | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:17.07 | ZorbaTHut | it's unclear if they'll get back on the bandwagon with 5.3 |
| 06:17.09 | Ivnedar | that was the one they were using as an example |
| 06:17.14 | ZorbaTHut | huh, nice |
| 06:17.34 | ZorbaTHut | is that a segfault or just an infiniteloop? 'cause if it's just an infinite loop it's not something I would personally worry about |
| 06:17.51 | Ivnedar | overflow c stack |
| 06:17.56 | ZorbaTHut | ahh, nasty |
| 06:17.59 | Ivnedar | recursion depth is too high |
| 06:18.54 | Ivnedar | some of these bugs I couldn't imagine every hitting unless you were really trying |
| 06:19.07 | Ivnedar | coroutine.wrap(function() print(pcall(pcall,pcall,pcall,pcall,pcall,error,3)) end)() |
| 06:19.09 | ZorbaTHut | eh, you never really know - I've managed to tickle three bugs in luajit so far, one way or another |
| 06:19.11 | ZorbaTHut | (all since fixed) |
| 06:19.36 | ZorbaTHut | one of them was actually a really nasty code generation error |
| 06:19.56 | ZorbaTHut | turned out to be caused by an overflow in the string table hitting some binary data in a way where it was still executable, but wrong |
| 06:20.23 | Ivnedar | ooh, using debug.getlocal() to pull back internal lua state that's normally outside of your view |
| 06:28.58 | seebs | Moai (a lua SDK I use for stuff) has a fascinating luajit-only bug. |
| 06:29.03 | seebs | They support both mainstream lua and luajit. |
| 06:29.26 | seebs | If you use luajit, exceptions in coroutines get a weird assertion failure rather than a stack dump. |
| 06:32.14 | ZorbaTHut | like, C++ exceptions? yeah they're super-unsupported in luajit |
| 06:32.27 | seebs | No, not a C++ exception. |
| 06:32.36 | seebs | Just a normal thing that would be caught by pcall or something. |
| 06:32.51 | seebs | If you didn't have it caught, it would explode in fire instead of doing the normal error handling. I don't know why. |
| 06:33.07 | ZorbaTHut | ah, curious |
| 06:33.14 | seebs | I will at some point get around to reading more source to try to track it down. |
| 06:40.13 | Ivnedar | ooh, I liked that one, write a valid c program that prints out "hello world" but uses no semicolons |
| 06:48.40 | seebs | *thinking* |
| 06:49.23 | seebs | while (0*puts("hello, world!")) {} |
| 06:49.56 | seebs | Oh, hey, someone saved a copy of my old CoH guide. |
| 06:50.00 | seebs | "How To Suck At City of Heroes". |
| 06:50.23 | seebs | Oh. Wow. |
| 06:50.28 | seebs | Someone saved the entire CoH forums. |
| 07:34.50 | ZorbaTHut | that's pretty cool, got a link? |
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| 14:40.51 | Amadeus- | An error such as this: "Error: ImhoBags/ItemContainer/GuildBar.lua:88: attempt to index a nil value" |
| 14:41.05 | Amadeus- | which is referring to this line: "setVaultNameText(parent, parent.vaultButtons[parent.vault].name or "", slot(parent.vault))" |
| 14:41.30 | Amadeus- | is most likely being caused by parent.vaultButtons[parent.vault] being nil, correct? |
| 14:41.52 | Amadeus- | [Note: I'm assuming 'parent' is valid since otherwise earlier calls in the function would have had errors] |
| 16:05.52 | seebs | It could be any of parent, parent.vaultButtons, or parent.vaultButtons[parent.vault]. |
| 16:06.44 | seebs | Zorba: https://ia601504.us.archive.org/12/items/archiveteam-city-of-heroes-main/ |
| 16:07.11 | seebs | It's ridiculously huge because the archive format is basically resulting in duplicating copies of all the assets for everything. |
| 17:01.03 | Amadeus- | I'm trying to figure out why there are so many gold spammers in ArcheAge alpha ...I mean, why? |
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| 18:12.41 | ZorbaTHut | ah good, it's on archive.org |
| 19:20.02 | Baanano | hey ZorbaTHut, about the new ah, will the recommended price and all the price history data be exposed to the addon API? |
| 19:20.35 | ZorbaTHut | baanano, yes, though maybe not with 2.8 - I've had a lot of rendering stuff to fix and may not be able to get it done in time |
| 19:21.35 | Baanano | ok, that's fine, thanks :) |
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| 19:40.42 | seebs | So I started downloading the torrent of the CoH forums, and then I wanted to move my laptop, so I stopped my torrent tracker. |
| 19:41.07 | seebs | Which then did the obvious thing, which is write out the entire 220GB file's contents, even though most of them are still null bytes. |
| 19:41.12 | seebs | So it took over two hours to unmount that disk. |
| 21:15.19 | Imhothar | time to see with how many mods I can stuff KSP64 |
| 21:23.03 | Imhothar | hmm very informative if the description of a mod only says "I stream and do youtube at [URL]" |
| 21:24.13 | Imhothar | I always wonder what someone is thinking at that time |
| 22:12.04 | Imhothar | sigh, why would someone upload a file that's only called "v0.13.1.zip" |
| 22:58.42 | Torhal | Imhothar: Because obviously they make a folder named for whatever they're downloading and everyone else should too! |
| 22:58.43 | Torhal | :D |
| 22:59.09 | Imhothar | yeah... |
| 23:01.10 | Imhothar | I have to say there's a lot of poison going on in the ksp forums against Curse. I really wonder where that comes from |
| 23:04.21 | Imhothar | I remember when the announcement was made. People made it sound as if curse was the worst thing ever |
| 23:07.40 | Imhothar | best quote so far: "In their defense, Squad could turn water into wine and half the forum would chastise them for promoting alcoholism." |
| 23:13.23 | Imhothar | Torhal is there any policy in place to limit how many categories people can put their mod into? It's ridiculous how people shove their mods into every category there is |
| 23:15.29 | Torhal | Imhothar: They should only be able to select 4. |
| 23:16.20 | Imhothar | well this one has 5, just as example: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/222569-the-original-kerbal-space-program-parts-pack |
| 23:17.03 | Imhothar | maybe the limit is 5, there are quite a few of them |
| 23:25.06 | Torhal | One primary, up to 4 secondary |
| 23:25.30 | Imhothar | hmm then what's the purpose of primary/secondary when they show up in all the category lists? |
| 23:26.08 | Torhal | Not entirely sure, really. |
| 23:26.49 | Imhothar | oh well |
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