| 00:34.32 | Amadeus- | I really like the idea of a permenant pvp zone in the game ... a la how Aion does it (Abyss, eye, etc.) |
| 00:34.47 | Amadeus- | just needs to be fairly large |
| 00:43.59 | seebs | See, I figure that's what PvP servers are for. |
| 00:51.28 | Amadeus- | naw ..that's a whole server |
| 00:51.32 | Amadeus- | I like having a choice |
| 00:51.41 | Amadeus- | "I'm in the mood to pvp ...I'll go to x" |
| 00:59.42 | seebs | See, I like having a choice too, but my choice is to pick a shard where I can explore the world without getting flagged. |
| 01:12.46 | Amadeus- | I'd like to have the choice of experiencing open-world pvp without having to be on a specific shard. What I'm proposing shouldn't have anything in it that pve players would want ....if done right. They could avoid it completely. |
| 01:20.11 | seebs | Uh. |
| 01:20.13 | Amadeus- | and, it's only fair, there are pve zones (high end raid zones) that serious pvp players would never see/explore ...so, makes sense there would be a pvp zone that hard core pve players would never see/explore |
| 01:20.18 | seebs | would it have scenery or show up on the map? |
| 01:20.27 | seebs | Yes, there are such zones. They're called "warfronts". |
| 01:20.30 | Amadeus- | would be like any zone |
| 01:20.31 | Amadeus- | no |
| 01:20.38 | Amadeus- | I'm talking about an open world zone just like any other zone |
| 01:20.40 | seebs | Then it would have content PvE players want to see. |
| 01:20.48 | seebs | ... There are no raid zones that are not instances. |
| 01:21.00 | seebs | The only zones PvPers would never see are the instances bits. |
| 01:21.22 | Amadeus- | I suppose that part is true ...but, if it had NOTHING in it but scenery ...a pve player could easily run through and see shit ...it's not like every square inch would be camped |
| 01:21.58 | Amadeus- | I think it's a good idea and it works really well in Aion ....for a while I didn't like pvp and had no reason to go there ....went and looked around, saw the pixels ..and that was it ....doesn't affect pve game at all. |
| 01:22.03 | seebs | I would still find that highly upsetting and consider it a really bad game design choice. |
| 01:22.11 | seebs | It would affect the game as I currently play it. |
| 01:22.29 | Amadeus- | I don't agree with you. |
| 01:22.29 | seebs | Basically, *never ever ever any open world autoflag* is the rule. It's a good rule. Changing it is bad. |
| 01:22.37 | Amadeus- | It's a single zone. |
| 01:22.46 | Amadeus- | And you'd have NO reason to go there other htan just to look around. |
| 01:22.52 | Amadeus- | It would be a nice thing for pvp players. |
| 01:22.57 | Amadeus- | you're being selfish. |
| 01:23.21 | Amadeus- | BUT |
| 01:23.41 | Amadeus- | I would say that the same thing could be done for PVE ....an open world zone where shit hits so har that you need really good pve gear or a group/raid. |
| 01:23.43 | Amadeus- | to see it all |
| 01:23.57 | seebs | If it's contingent on people voluntarily going there, we already have that, it's called "you can flag any time you want". |
| 01:25.59 | Amadeus- | Fine ...how about this....a special instance of a zone that already exists ...with all the same mobs, quests, etc. ...a CARBON copy ....but, where you're forced flagged pvp when you go there. And, put gatherables, special pvp quests, and special pvp marks so that pvp players would have a great desire to go to THAT instance. |
| 01:26.21 | Amadeus- | I don't recally care if it's "new map" ...I just want a reason for eveyrone to go and pvp together without having to be on lame seastone. |
| 01:26.25 | Amadeus- | even on seastone ..everyone is spread out |
| 01:26.30 | Amadeus- | or in the towns. |
| 01:30.25 | Amadeus- | ...for what it's worth, I wouldn't ever play on a pvp shard on any game either. ...I like choosing when I want to pvp ....which is why I like the idea of zones that force pvp flag rather than servers that do. |
| 01:30.39 | Amadeus- | the game just needs incentives to go to those zones ...and it's all good |
| 01:30.47 | seebs | As long as it's instanced, I am all for it. And I think what this sort of gets to is the desire to have a thing that isn't objective-based and time-limited. |
| 01:32.45 | seebs | Because that lets players make up their own goals, swarm without being limited by team size, and so on. |
| 01:40.22 | Amadeus- | yes |
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| 06:05.43 | Ivnedar | why not just have a ui option to switch shards instead of needing to be in a group |
| 06:05.49 | Ivnedar | and you can switch to seastone any time |
| 06:06.31 | Ivnedar | or, pvp IAs |
| 06:06.54 | Ivnedar | you join one, get put in one of two or so groups, objectives are setup to collide the groups, groups are flagged to each other |
| 06:09.26 | Ivnedar | pretty sure the dream ribbon category change was in the patch notes a few weeks ago |
| 06:11.17 | Ivnedar | 2.6 hotfix #7 |
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| 07:29.21 | Amadeus- | Ivnedar, still would need motivation for everyone to go to the same zone ...but, otherwise, yes it would amount to the same thing |
| 07:31.53 | Ivnedar | the ia pvp idea would help with that |
| 07:32.10 | Ivnedar | assuming people wanted to stay in groups |
| 07:33.28 | Ivnedar | could be interesting, it attempts to balance out sides, pushes them into the one area |
| 07:33.29 | Amadeus- | ia? Basically what I want is just your standard zone..but, with good reasons for pvp players to be there doing things |
| 07:34.13 | Ivnedar | ia = instant adventure, people get thrown into a group to do a common objective for xp/rewards |
| 07:34.26 | Ivnedar | make a pvp version where people are put into balanced groups and ported to a random zone |
| 07:34.31 | Ivnedar | groups are flagged to each other |
| 07:34.43 | Ivnedar | join/leave whenever you want |
| 07:35.04 | Ivnedar | once some objective is completed, teleport both sides to another area to keep going |
| 07:35.08 | Ivnedar | to keep it interesting |
| 07:35.14 | Ivnedar | objective could be time or kill based |
| 07:35.29 | Ivnedar | do it while waiting for wf queue, or instead of wfs |
| 07:35.46 | Ivnedar | ias are cross shard already, so all the technology is there |
| 07:36.01 | Ivnedar | (trying to think of ways to help with the lowest effort needed from trion's side) |
| 07:36.14 | Ivnedar | (since that's more likely to get up than something that needs months of work) |
| 07:37.26 | Amadeus- | Well, to be honest, I don't know why they couldn't pick an underused SL zone ...or even a portion of the zone ...and just make it so that when you enter that area ..you get pvp flagged ...and then put a bunch of pvp qeusts and other cool stuff ...that's really all it would take |
| 07:37.28 | Amadeus- | pretty easy |
| 07:39.02 | Ivnedar | they'd argue that that's what the pvp dailies are for? |
| 07:39.15 | Ivnedar | you get there, you get flagged, quests to do, kills, etc |
| 07:39.57 | Ivnedar | not sure how many people do them |
| 07:40.07 | Ivnedar | any time I've done them, I've gotten guild to come along to trade kills since it's pretty abandoned |
| 07:45.26 | seebs | The reason they couldn't is that it would make existing players who rolled on a PvE shard *unhappy*. |
| 07:45.38 | seebs | Because we picked this game, and that shard type, specifically because we *do not want open world autoflagging*. |
| 07:46.00 | seebs | If you want to do open-world PvP, you can flag for it, and other people can too. |
| 07:47.07 | Amadeus- | seebs, you're missing the whole point and being very closed-minded. No one is proposing forcing people to pvp....certainly not me, I have no desire for that either. |
| 07:47.30 | seebs | I am pretty sure I understand the point, but I disagree with it vehemently. |
| 07:47.39 | Amadeus- | Call it an instance if you want |
| 07:47.44 | Amadeus- | An instance that is always open |
| 07:47.47 | seebs | That'd be fine. |
| 07:47.50 | Amadeus- | then it's no different than a raid zone |
| 07:47.55 | seebs | Yup, that's totally okay. |
| 07:48.07 | seebs | The problem comes from "I am just wandering around in the world and suddenly people can attack me." |
| 07:48.20 | seebs | It has to be an actual separate step you take that is not like ordinary movement that puts you there. |
| 07:48.36 | Amadeus- | That's easy then ..it could be an island like Ember Isle |
| 07:48.41 | Amadeus- | in fact, Ember Isle would be a perfect place |
| 07:49.07 | Amadeus- | a place like that ...you have to actually port there. |
| 07:50.10 | Amadeus- | scratch the ember isle thing ...I'm sure people would get upset about that. But, yea, a place like that ...on the portcullum map...but, not a place you can get to without clicking a portal |
| 07:50.23 | Amadeus- | hell, I'll even go so far as to say you have to actually flag yourself pvp before the game would port you there. |
| 07:54.34 | seebs | I don't see why it wouldn't work to just do an adaptation of the warfront/cq code to allow for a permanent instance that people can go to whenever. |
| 07:58.57 | Amadeus- | it kindof needs to be a regular zone though ...with pve elements in it |
| 07:59.01 | Amadeus- | pvpve |
| 08:05.28 | seebs | See, as soon as you put PvE elements in it, it becomes a violation of the basic PvE-oriented MMO contract, which is that you can play all the PvE content without doing any PvP. |
| 08:06.45 | Ivnedar | I assume pve elements like hold a control point |
| 08:07.08 | seebs | Well, then you can do that with a permanent instance, though. |
| 08:07.46 | Ivnedar | the problem with permanent anything is people don't go |
| 08:08.40 | Ivnedar | or if there's a way to control it, they get lopsided, one side always wins because that side shows up because that side wins |
| 08:08.45 | Ivnedar | and vice versa for the losing side |
| 08:10.13 | Ivnedar | I think the pvp ia idea could work. sides are rebalanced each time the groups port, or as people join |
| 08:11.07 | Ivnedar | they can be joined from anywhere and have a teleport system built in |
| 08:11.31 | Ivnedar | since they can be done while waiting in queues for other things, there's a chance people will be there at least some of the time |
| 08:11.56 | Ivnedar | they're set in existing zones without forcing people not taking part to be flagged |
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