| 00:17.23 | *** join/#riftuidev Cairenn1 (~Owner@CPEbcc8100d464b-CMbcc8100d4648.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:24.31 | *** join/#riftuidev Cairenn (~Owner@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 00:24.31 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 00:41.28 | seebs | There are lining-up features for Gadgets. |
| 00:42.03 | seebs | First, if you drag a gadget's control widget through another gadget's control widget, it will stay lined up on either horizontal or vertical. Second, I once suggested the addition of arrow-key buttons, and it's possible that happened, or possible that it didn't. |
| 00:45.20 | Sight | Seebs.. I LOVE YOU! |
| 00:45.50 | Sight | Has my babys plis? XD |
| 00:53.09 | seebs | Do the arrow keys work? |
| 00:54.14 | Sight | No but i never knew about the control widget thing though! solved all my problems |
| 01:37.31 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 01:37.31 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 02:38.18 | Noshei | Amadeus-: from the patch notes: "* Server broadcasts no longer require the chat server to be online. " |
| 02:38.34 | Amadeus- | yea, I saw that :) |
| 02:39.00 | Amadeus- | it wouldn't have been difficult all really ..just a new server packet and a handler on the client ...a new opcode :) I mean, that's how I imagine it was done. |
| 02:39.33 | Amadeus- | sad that the favor/prestige bug in conquest is still not fixed though :( |
| 02:39.48 | Amadeus- | Didn't really care much before ...but the new relic pvp gear costs a LOT of favor ..lol. |
| 02:40.02 | Amadeus- | I mean, like over 300,000 favor just for the smallest piece (e.g., a ring) |
| 02:41.31 | Noshei | I like that they made patron vials stack with all other vials |
| 02:41.46 | Noshei | so we could now get 200% increases as a patron, instead of just 160% |
| 02:43.15 | Noshei | chat seems to be dead on NA shards... |
| 02:44.43 | Amadeus- | yea, the patron stacking will be nice :) |
| 02:48.59 | Ivnedar | oooh, they stack now? awesome :D |
| 02:51.23 | Amadeus- | yea, chat down again ...dang |
| 02:51.29 | Amadeus- | prime time :( |
| 02:54.03 | Ivnedar | Do the artifact vials stack? :D |
| 02:56.12 | Amadeus- | Today 09:41 PM - We do not yet have an exact time, but I wanted to get the notice out here as soon as possible that this is happening. |
| 02:56.18 | Amadeus- | Today 09:51 PM - The NA shards are coming offline in just a few minutes for Hotfix #4. |
| 02:56.22 | Amadeus- | Today 09:55 PM |
| 02:56.27 | Amadeus- | The NA shards are now offline for Hotfix #4. |
| 02:57.02 | seebs | Huh. |
| 02:57.03 | Amadeus- | ^ boy, if i were raiding or heavily invested in something, I'd be upset with the lack of consideration with that . |
| 02:57.12 | Amadeus- | less than 15 minutes of warning. |
| 02:57.21 | seebs | The servers were unusable for most purposes. |
| 02:57.33 | Ivnedar | well, they did say that if chat died again, they're take the servers down sooner |
| 02:57.37 | seebs | They had to restart them, they had known fixes for the problem in hand... I think this was a good call. |
| 02:57.40 | Amadeus- | I suppose. |
| 02:57.56 | seebs | And hey, now I don't have to wonder whether I get the greenscale or budgie chest tomorrow. |
| 02:58.00 | Amadeus- | I don't dispute doing it ...but, 10-15 minutes warning should only be used for major exploits. People should be able to plan. |
| 02:58.07 | Amadeus- | what's the differnece? |
| 02:58.15 | Amadeus- | budgie better or worse? |
| 02:58.17 | seebs | Don't know. |
| 02:58.23 | seebs | But they announced that would be changing. |
| 02:58.39 | Amadeus- | yea, I saw that |
| 02:58.47 | seebs | Thing is, I basically agree about notice... *if* your problem isn't "we can't give notice". |
| 02:58.52 | Ivnedar | budgie has birdseed in it and chance of tropical mount |
| 02:59.36 | Ivnedar | oh, seebs, wife wanted to start playing FFXIV but wanted to know if there's pve vs pvp servers |
| 02:59.42 | seebs | Huh. |
| 02:59.53 | seebs | I don't know. I am not *aware* of a distinction, I think PvP is purely instanced. |
| 02:59.59 | seebs | There's no factions to speak of. |
| 03:00.20 | seebs | Want me to see whether they have a referral program thing? If they do I might be able to give her a link which produces Bonus Loot or something. |
| 03:00.20 | Ivnedar | she doesn't like the idea of wandering around exploring and suddenly getting ganked |
| 03:00.42 | seebs | So far as I know, that can't happen in FFXIV. Well, I mean. Except for mobs. |
| 03:03.23 | Amadeus- | "It certainly sucks. To be totally fair and blunt though - we've said we've made adjustments. I don't think we've clearly stated that all issues are resolved. We are doing everything we can to correct the issues. ~Daglar" ..hehe ....the patch notes for every hotfix this week has said "Fixed chat" not "tried to fix chat". :) I mean, I know what he's saying, |
| 03:03.31 | Amadeus- | but sometimes he doesn't seem to see things from other perspectives. |
| 03:04.33 | seebs | Well, they fixed *specific* issues with chat. And I note, even when it crashed, it worked better in some ways than it used to -- it actually came up enough for conversation at least once. |
| 03:36.46 | seebs | It does amuse me watching all the cynics. "I bet they'll only give the sorry-chests to the patrons." "Oh, they won't do anything for people who'd bought the same mount on two characters." And so on. And every time, the simple "Trion does their best to be decent to customers" prediction wins. |
| 03:38.06 | Ivnedar | Daglar's already clearly said that everyone's compensated, not just patrons |
| 03:38.24 | Ivnedar | Then hinted at the patron change coming that they'll like, that's unrelated to the incident, and turned out to be the vial stacking |
| 03:39.32 | seebs | I am not sure whether "everyone" includes "people who had not logged in at all during the relevant period". |
| 03:40.20 | Ivnedar | I imagine it'd be "everyone who logs in and claims it in the next x days" |
| 03:40.29 | Ivnedar | available to every toon for a limited period |
| 03:41.22 | Ivnedar | does the referral link matter which server she rolls on? |
| 03:41.31 | Ivnedar | I think she wanted to try the .jp servers for the lower latency |
| 03:42.47 | Ivnedar | So you need to group up to progress or is it soloable? |
| 03:43.41 | seebs | There are no referral links, yet, apparently. |
| 03:43.48 | seebs | That's complicated. |
| 03:44.08 | seebs | Most of the game is pretty solo-friendly. However, the main storyline quest periodically requires dungeon clears, which are generally 4-player fights. |
| 03:44.10 | Ivnedar | 50% off on steam until feb 28th or so |
| 03:44.13 | Ivnedar | 26th sorry |
| 03:44.19 | Ivnedar | so she was going to buy it some time before then |
| 03:44.30 | Ivnedar | ok, thank you :) |
| 03:44.39 | seebs | And the things that get you access to mounts and "retainers" (think banking + the ability to sell on the AH-equivalent) are behind story quests. |
| 03:45.00 | Ivnedar | she'd be getting the CE on steam too |
| 03:45.01 | seebs | So you need to clear at least a few dungeons and one boss fight to get that functionality opened. On each character. |
| 03:45.05 | Ivnedar | so bonus stuffs there |
| 03:49.54 | Noshei | 200k lines of code were touched for the chat revamp |
| 03:50.09 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 03:50.26 | seebs | I liked Daglar's response to my question about whether he considered yelling at the guy constantly while he was working. |
| 03:52.18 | Noshei | seebs: I didn't see that one |
| 03:52.41 | seebs | http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/416408-02-18-2014-chat-down-thread-6.html#post4709182 |
| 03:54.10 | Noshei | lol |
| 03:54.37 | Ivnedar | countdown to MLP:FIM tie in for Rift |
| 03:55.06 | seebs | Heh. |
| 03:55.23 | seebs | Someone reports that mounts are now labeled "land mount". |
| 03:55.34 | seebs | Oh, and I did get confirmation that, if you bought a mount from the store on a character, then deleted that character, it should still show up on all your characters. |
| 03:55.51 | Noshei | so they do seebs, I just checked |
| 03:56.15 | Ivnedar | Swimming mounts were mentioned for 3.0 weren't they? |
| 03:56.22 | seebs | I think so. |
| 03:57.36 | Noshei | damn it, I really want to make a troll post on the forums that flying mounts are coming |
| 03:58.02 | Noshei | but with how stupid the mods are I'm pretty sure they would give me an infraction for it |
| 03:58.19 | Ivnedar | "Flying mounts are coming, but are only usable in conquest." |
| 04:00.07 | seebs | I think there should be exactly one flying mount, ever. |
| 04:00.14 | seebs | A flying pig. Which cannot actually be obtained through any means. |
| 04:00.51 | Ivnedar | Ooooh, add it into the bounty hunting system, as a 0.000000000000001% drop chance from any mob |
| 04:01.01 | Ivnedar | and any resource node, pvp corpse, etc |
| 04:07.17 | Imhothar_ | "Please tell me that you guys are at least trying to figure out what is causing this (aka actually doing debugging) rather than doing random fixes and hoping that it works." |
| 04:07.28 | Imhothar_ | the expectations people have about trion devs are fantastic |
| 04:07.47 | seebs | I hadn't noticed, there was another response in that thread on AMD optimizations from the guy who was insisting that a 32-bit binary could NEVER actually have more than 2GB of physical memory. Ever. No matter what. |
| 04:08.02 | seebs | It really is not hard to predict Trion's behavior in a lot of cases. |
| 04:08.37 | Imhothar_ | it's the shitstorm that shows quite well how people think |
| 04:08.43 | seebs | Come up with high expectations suited to a company whose staff have been given authority to make the choices they think are best for the game and players. Trion will generally meet or beat those expectations. Maybe not right away, but they will do it. |
| 04:08.56 | Imhothar_ | especially the arrogance from people who seem to know about coding |
| 04:09.21 | seebs | Yes, they are thinking about things like "what if you had purchased a premium mount and then deleted the character". Yes, they have already thought about what happens if you'd bought the mount for two characters, and made the decision that's best for the player. |
| 04:09.25 | seebs | This is *not hard to predict*. |
| 04:09.46 | Imhothar_ | I'm talking about the chat thing |
| 04:10.12 | seebs | I feel like I'm watching people who spend a year recording the times of sunrise and sunset, then sometime *after* they have a full year and can see the pattern, they announce that they suspect the sun won't come up at all tomorrow, because suns are famously lazy and don't care about their planets. |
| 04:10.51 | Imhothar_ | and then start ripping people's hearts out alive |
| 04:10.53 | seebs | Heck, the chat thing *exists* because Trion is doing hard refactoring jobs to fix long-standing issues. |
| 04:11.04 | Imhothar_ | we had that already |
| 04:11.05 | seebs | Which is one of those things you always wish people would do, but they don't. |
| 04:11.37 | seebs | I have not yet seen anything from the Rift team that makes me think I'd think they were idiots if I read their code. |
| 04:13.26 | Imhothar_ | people just don't realize that a test server can never reach the demands of the live system |
| 04:13.42 | Imhothar_ | all those comments about it not being tested and stuff |
| 04:16.46 | seebs | I know. It's insane. |
| 04:17.56 | Imhothar_ | was interesting to read the CCP devblogs about their scriptable test clients to bombard the test servers with traffic and load: one guy and his army of 10000 robots |
| 04:54.54 | ZorbaBeta | I did the math once on Skyrim. I concluded that: assuming Skyrim was 100% complete the day after Morrowind's release, and assuming every single person listed on Skyrim's development team was full-time QA, all of which worked 40 hour weeks for the entire period between Morrowind's release and Skyrim's release, then - about three hours after Skyrim's release - players had outstripped QA in terms of hours played. |
| 04:55.37 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: wow |
| 04:56.39 | ZorbaBeta | it's really just hard to overstate how quickly players will find insanely obscure bugs. :( |
| 04:56.39 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: do you have any idea how many total lines of code are in rift? |
| 04:56.50 | ZorbaBeta | noshei, if I did, it'd be under NDA. I'm honestly not sure though |
| 04:57.00 | Noshei | yeah I figured as much |
| 04:57.02 | Ivnedar | Ask Daglar maybe |
| 04:57.08 | ZorbaBeta | and note that if you did want an answer, you'd have to say whether it included servers, interactive tools, and/or automated tools |
| 04:57.10 | Ivnedar | If he's given an estimate of the chat server code base |
| 04:57.20 | Ivnedar | He may supply one for the whole thing |
| 04:57.27 | ZorbaBeta | Oh, and third-party libraries. |
| 04:59.40 | Ivnedar | Do you count how many lines have ever been written? That could be an interesting figure too |
| 05:08.14 | seebs | Wait, Morrowind, not Oblivion? |
| 05:08.24 | ZorbaBeta | oops, Oblivion, you're right |
| 05:08.31 | ZorbaBeta | those games kind of blur together in my mind |
| 05:09.12 | Ivnedar | If you meant Morrowind, it'd probably take 5 hours instead of 3 :P |
| 05:09.27 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 05:12.55 | seebs | Heh. |
| 05:13.08 | seebs | Someone on the forums wants to know if it would really be all that big a deal for Trion to just release a Linux client. |
| 05:13.25 | ZorbaBeta | lol. |
| 05:13.45 | ZorbaBeta | or, alternate answer: problem solved, we already have! you just need to run it under this program called "wine" |
| 05:13.52 | seebs | I have heard, *once*, of a company taking an MMO that was originally single-platform and making the client native on two platforms. |
| 05:13.53 | seebs | Oh, he *is*. |
| 05:13.59 | seebs | And he's having trouble with it. |
| 05:14.12 | seebs | My guess would be that his decision to use Ubuntu 12.04 for a brand new install in the last couple of weeks figures prominently here. |
| 05:14.40 | ZorbaBeta | the big killer would be the shaders - we'd either need to rewrite all our shaders to be opengl (not happening) or come up with a way to programatically convert dx shaders into opengl shaders (also not happening :P) |
| 05:15.42 | seebs | Yeah. In many cases, I think *starting* cross-platform would be a much more viable choice than porting would. |
| 05:16.11 | seebs | Huh. |
| 05:16.14 | ZorbaBeta | oh absolutely |
| 05:16.22 | seebs | In addition to the message API and storage API being apparently busted. |
| 05:16.23 | ZorbaBeta | although opengl is, in many ways, really a pain to work with :/ |
| 05:16.29 | seebs | I appear to be seeing signs that the social API is busted. |
| 05:17.07 | ZorbaBeta | possible :/ I may have a bunch of work to get that all patched up again |
| 05:19.13 | seebs | Not sure what's happening, but my friend-sharing addon just declared that it couldn't add people, which it would normally only do if it thought it needed to. So it may be that the order of events has changed and I'm trying to look at the lists before they're really ready. |
| 05:20.18 | ZorbaBeta | it also would not surprise me if the order of events has changed pretty severely |
| 05:48.29 | Noshei | yay |
| 05:48.41 | Noshei | Just removed the last bit of the old event system from Easymail |
| 05:49.20 | Noshei | or ZorbaBeta 2.6 does not work for the Environment for addons |
| 05:49.31 | Noshei | the addon wont even show up in the addon list if you use it |
| 05:53.50 | Imhothar_ | CCP is paying some other company to host the EVE client on windows and do all the DX->GL and other API call conversions |
| 05:55.03 | Imhothar_ | or maybe it's recompiled with some automated stuff, not sure |
| 05:55.07 | Noshei | you have something backwards there I think Imhothar_ |
| 05:55.16 | Imhothar_ | but the linux port is outsourced |
| 05:55.29 | Imhothar_ | ah well |
| 05:55.31 | Imhothar_ | you get the idea |
| 05:57.32 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar__ (~Imhothar@ppp-188-174-107-21.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 05:59.31 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/798410/filter-account-type |
| 05:59.41 | Noshei | elemental damage with life leech now! |
| 05:59.57 | Imhothar__ | so only a quarter of americans know the earth goes around the sun? quite a harsh statement considering they asked only 2200 people... |
| 05:59.59 | Noshei | I think it is safe to assume that you will also be able to get mana leech from elemental damage also |
| 06:00.30 | Noshei | Imhothar_: what was the most received response? |
| 06:04.58 | ZorbaBeta | noshei, that's a fascinating item. it seems to have overwritten the Onyx Amulet built-in property |
| 06:05.06 | Noshei | yeah |
| 06:05.20 | ZorbaBeta | I'd be willing to believe that's what Corrupted means. |
| 06:07.02 | Noshei | yeah except there was no change to the implicit mod on the first item they linked here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/796600 |
| 06:08.08 | Noshei | so maybe corrupted has a different effect based on the item that has it |
| 06:08.11 | ZorbaBeta | huh. yeah, you're right |
| 06:08.12 | ZorbaBeta | weird |
| 06:08.33 | ZorbaBeta | well, all will be revealed in time. I'm off to bed, though :) |
| 06:09.00 | Noshei | so maybe weapons get a white socket, jewelry get different implicit mods, ect |
| 06:12.01 | seebs | Huh. |
| 06:12.08 | seebs | Air Saga seems to have gone missing. |
| 06:12.27 | Noshei | the world event bit, yeah |
| 06:12.34 | Noshei | quests are still there though |
| 06:19.21 | seebs | Gadgets part frames can be persuaded to show debuffs as tiny little icons. What I sort of want is the "whole frame tinted" effect that some healer frames I used to use had. |
| 06:19.57 | Ivnedar | I think wife's unitframes may do that, will ask her when she gets home |
| 06:20.02 | Ivnedar | she made her own |
| 06:23.45 | Noshei | I'm kinda thinking I may need to make my own unit frames at some point. Gadgets is still using the old event system pretty extensively and I dont see it changing any time soon |
| 06:24.01 | Noshei | so when that goes bye bye it may take gadgets with it |
| 07:00.00 | seebs | heh. Rift just crashed and did an error report... on logout. |
| 07:00.11 | seebs | So it logged me back in automatically to the character I tried to log out from. |
| 07:05.29 | Ivnedar | heh heh, they fixed the nomi artifact salvaging technique |
| 07:14.07 | seebs | Nomi? |
| 07:14.16 | Ivnedar | Artifact Vendor |
| 07:14.33 | seebs | I didn't even know there was one. |
| 07:14.52 | Ivnedar | If you complete the stone henge achievement, the henges activate and become teleports |
| 07:15.08 | Ivnedar | the teleport hub has a vendor there named Nomi that sells all the puzzle set artifacts |
| 07:15.16 | Ivnedar | 5p for white, 10p for green, 20p for blue |
| 07:16.30 | Ivnedar | which was good when artifact prices soared last week, but now they're more expensive than you can buy otherwise, so kinda pointless changing it now |
| 07:26.44 | seebs | Ohh, I should totally complete that achievement. I would love more teleports. |
| 07:26.59 | Ivnedar | yup yup |
| 07:27.07 | Ivnedar | one henge per zone |
| 07:28.18 | seebs | Apparently the guy who can't figure out why Rift isn't working well with a two-year-old version of WINE also thinks I'm a Trion employee. |
| 07:28.30 | Ivnedar | aren't you? :O |
| 07:28.43 | Imhothar__ | what, you aren't?! |
| 07:28.56 | seebs | Sadly, no. |
| 07:29.05 | seebs | Actually, I just gave THEM money. |
| 07:29.07 | Imhothar__ | the big twist |
| 07:29.59 | seebs | I like pet skins, the discount on the bundle is reasonable. |
| 07:30.24 | seebs | But I didn't actually have that many credits, but I have been pretty happy with things lately, so I figured I'd get credits. |
| 08:28.37 | seebs | Under those assumptions, it was roughly three hours after launch that the players would have put in more QA time than the devs had. |
| 08:28.40 | seebs | mt. |
| 08:28.45 | seebs | I was quoting Zorba's thing to someone. |
| 08:45.24 | *** join/#riftuidev v101 (~vodka101@115.112.95.154) |
| 08:45.25 | *** part/#riftuidev v101 (~vodka101@115.112.95.154) |
| 08:45.26 | Ivnedar | I'm spending my evening trying to solo the thrax bridge levers |
| 08:45.29 | Ivnedar | gotta have a hobby |
| 08:53.46 | seebs | http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/252-To-The-Mun-and-Back <-- NASA + KSP |
| 08:59.36 | Imhothar__ | aye they announced it on KerbalKon |
| 09:04.52 | seebs | The story about how they got started is amazing. |
| 09:11.13 | Imhothar__ | aye |
| 09:37.55 | Imhothar__ | ZorbaBeta: this may interest you http://www.nag.co.za/2014/01/23/nvidia-says-opengl-can-match-mantle-api/ |
| 09:38.14 | Imhothar__ | related to you talking badly about OpenGL interface previously ;) |
| 11:01.18 | Ivnedar | feasts are faction locked again? |
| 11:15.08 | Amadeus- | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen |
| 11:15.15 | Amadeus- | ^ 3 days to go, and just over halfway. But, you know, $425k might be enough to get the attention of a studio/producer ..who knows. |
| 11:15.55 | Amadeus- | it's an EQ1 clone with (I assume) better graphics ...and doesn't apologize for that at all ..heh. |
| 11:17.10 | Amadeus- | wow ....3 $10,000 backers. |
| 11:19.06 | Imhothar__ | the universal solution to national debts: increase the debt limit |
| 11:56.35 | Ivnedar | always fun upgrading video card driver while playing rift :) |
| 11:56.48 | Ivnedar | It's surprisingly ok with the video card device going away |
| 11:57.31 | Ivnedar | better than mumble does anyway |
| 12:04.55 | Ivnedar | oh wow, how long has the rift task bar thingo let you pick characters and switch? |
| 12:05.19 | Ivnedar | click any recently played character and it logs you out and in as that toon |
| 13:24.45 | Imhothar__ | heh, windows 7 to windows 8 transition: demonstrating natural selection with windows as only the adaptable become successful :p |
| 15:45.07 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:40.57 | seebs | Ivnedar: I think that's been there since early 1.x, possibly launch. |
| 17:49.05 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 17:49.05 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.26 | Ivnedar | seebs: cool, I've only just noticed it, or if I had noticed it before, I wasn't game to click on it :P |
| 23:16.59 | Noshei | click on what Ivnedar? |
| 23:18.29 | Ivnedar | rift in the task bar |
| 23:18.48 | Ivnedar | mouseover it and it lists your recently logged in toons, click on one and it logs you out to character screen and auto logs you into that character |
| 23:32.20 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaGama (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |