| 00:03.25 | Ivnedar | aaand, I just realised I'm probably rather grumpy because I got woken up by work call an hour or so after finishing work for the night and haven't slept yet :P |
| 00:03.37 | Ivnedar | so reading rift forums really isn't going to help matter |
| 00:03.38 | Ivnedar | s |
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| 00:10.19 | Noshei | yeah Ivnedar i think it is 4 per now |
| 00:12.44 | Noshei | Ivnedar: you guys still on proteus? |
| 00:13.15 | Ivnedar | hopefully will have 20 people this week to be able to spend time on proteus |
| 00:13.22 | Ivnedar | hard to make much progress with 15 |
| 00:13.29 | Noshei | ah that sucks |
| 00:13.43 | Ivnedar | another guild collapsed on our shard, so got people from there |
| 00:16.32 | Ivnedar | It does suck to be waiting around, hoping for other guilds to collapse |
| 00:36.32 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: you have any idea how engery shield is calculated in poe? |
| 00:47.44 | Noshei | gah, this is really annoying |
| 00:48.00 | Noshei | I have 137 more energy shield than I should |
| 01:28.44 | Noshei | figured it out |
| 01:32.12 | Imhothar | Someone just showed a minecraft video |
| 01:32.19 | Imhothar | those people are building entire automated factories... |
| 01:32.35 | Imhothar | bots that run around and do stuff for you |
| 01:32.39 | Imhothar | insane |
| 01:57.48 | Imhothar | it's quite impressive actually. there's a mod that allows you to equip bots with tools, give them programs written in lua and let them go crazy |
| 03:04.44 | seebs | Yeah, I quite like computercraft. |
| 03:05.06 | Imhothar | I never played minecraft but seeing that makes my lua senses tingle |
| 03:15.34 | Ivnedar | roflmao |
| 03:15.46 | Ivnedar | someone's attempting to get people to pay them to demo the frosty budgie |
| 03:16.48 | Ivnedar | 1.5p/s |
| 03:30.56 | Noshei | lol |
| 03:31.24 | Ivnedar | Amory offered to demo the Tropical one for free to counter it :P |
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| 06:14.49 | Ivnedar | wow, guildie is trying out the ESO beta |
| 06:15.14 | Ivnedar | since installing it, it's been gettting out of memory errors, and worse, her machine is bsod'ing when it's running |
| 06:15.40 | Ivnedar | brother just sent me a beta key, might give it a miss |
| 06:15.53 | ZorbaBeta | if she hasn't updated her drivers, she probably should. bsod's are always a hardware, driver, or OS error |
| 06:16.08 | Ivnedar | latest drives |
| 06:16.10 | Ivnedar | drivers |
| 06:16.22 | Ivnedar | I wonder what it's triggering on her machine |
| 06:16.36 | ZorbaBeta | well, might be flaky hardware, or might just be flaky drivers - sometimes even the newest drivers are glitchy if the game is doing new and unexpected things |
| 06:17.01 | ZorbaBeta | and sometimes CPUs suck. there's a gigantic warning comment buried in the Rift codebase saying "this looks stupid, but don't change it, because if we do it the sensible way we trigger a bug on llano and the game crashes" |
| 06:17.09 | Ivnedar | *nod* new game using new feature, new feature not so tested |
| 06:17.25 | ZorbaBeta | yep. and while I haven't looked much into ESO, it wouldn't surprise me if they're pushing at least a few limits. |
| 06:19.20 | Ivnedar | I don't envy the person tasked with diagnosing that issue |
| 06:20.24 | ZorbaBeta | sadly he no longer works at trion - he decided he wanted to move to LA. Working at Riot now. Fantastic coder, easily in the top half-dozen I've worked with. |
| 06:20.55 | seebs | CPU bug workarounds are hell. |
| 06:22.11 | ZorbaBeta | my favorite hardware-glitch story - the playstation 2's memory controller had a bug. when changing from one 32mb bank to another, it would sometimes drop a few bytes |
| 06:22.25 | ZorbaBeta | on production ps2s this didn't matter because production ps2s only had 32mb of RAM |
| 06:22.38 | ZorbaBeta | development ps2s, however, had 128mb |
| 06:22.48 | Ivnedar | ouch |
| 06:23.04 | ZorbaBeta | there was a workaround - a commandline switch you'd pass to the launcher when running your game - but it was barely documented and (for some reason I have never understood) disabled by default |
| 06:23.25 | Ivnedar | Does it have an even less documented downside? |
| 06:25.43 | ZorbaBeta | so once in a while someone would post to the internal forums saying "hey, I'm getting inexplicable dropped memory once in a while, anyone know what's going on" and they'd have to go turn on the switch. |
| 06:25.43 | ZorbaBeta | well . . . let's put it this way. If there was a downside, it wasn't documented, and we never discovered it. |
| 06:25.43 | ZorbaBeta | but given how weird that hardware was, this doesn't really prove anything :V |
| 06:25.44 | ZorbaBeta | seriously that thing has a hardware jpeg decoder. afaik nobody anywhere used it - it was too low-quality to look good for static art, and too slow to work for textures. |
| 06:25.44 | seebs | I had a device once which was a very very early PVR which basically worked by real-time JPEG compression. |
| 06:25.44 | seebs | As-shipped, it worked with exactly one hard drive in the world, although they theorized other drives fast enough might come into production. |
| 06:25.44 | seebs | They had to tell you the exact model of Seagate drive that could keep up. |
| 06:25.44 | ZorbaBeta | hah. nice. |
| 06:26.15 | ZorbaBeta | the ps2 also had hardware antialiasing support . . . which worked only if you sorted every triangle in your entire scene back-to-front |
| 06:26.38 | seebs | haha |
| 06:26.49 | ZorbaBeta | it was actually used in the ps2's launcher, but, I suspect, not in any games. |
| 06:27.00 | seebs | I heard from a number of devs that the 3DO was way more pleasant to work with than the PS1 and Saturn, but not a viable market. Shame. |
| 06:27.06 | ZorbaBeta | (and we hated it in the ps2's launcher because the mandated sorting algorithm didn't really work well) |
| 06:27.19 | seebs | Anyway, gotta sleep, have to take people to airports. Bleh. |
| 06:27.32 | ZorbaBeta | All that said, ignoring the worthless "features" and the buggy dev kit, the ps2 was actually quite nice to code for :) |
| 06:27.33 | ZorbaBeta | sleep well |
| 06:27.51 | Ivnedar | I loved that I could install a hard drive into my ps2 |
| 06:27.57 | Imhothar_ | here, people telling you why they go to bed |
| 06:28.04 | Ivnedar | with the big bulky ethernet box combo thing |
| 06:28.24 | Ivnedar | so I could ftp homebrew onto the ps2 and run it |
| 06:28.30 | Imhothar_ | it happens all the time... |
| 06:46.08 | Noshei | hey ZorbaBeta, I just noticed that Event.UI.Input.Mouse.Cursor.Move doesn't have any parameters |
| 06:46.31 | Noshei | shouldn't it have the x,y information? |
| 06:47.00 | ZorbaBeta | hmm. it's possible the documentation is wrong; it's also possible it's intended that you call Inspect.Mouse() or whatever it is |
| 06:47.37 | Ivnedar | Event.Mouse.Move(x,y) has it, the frame one doesn't |
| 06:47.50 | Noshei | I just figured it would include it since the global event has it |
| 06:47.51 | ZorbaBeta | aha |
| 06:48.05 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, in that case it's just intended as a notification that the mouse has moved |
| 06:48.47 | Noshei | it would make it easier if you need to handle mouse moves for multiple different frames if the frame event has it |
| 06:49.32 | Noshei | or could I attach the global event to a frame? |
| 06:49.42 | ZorbaBeta | it would, but also slower - when experimenting with these events I found that the majority of times an event handler for that is called, it just throws away the numbers |
| 06:49.59 | ZorbaBeta | and it's also not clear what numbers are desired - some applications want global numbers, some want numbers relative to the frame |
| 06:50.31 | Noshei | relative to the frame would be great for a frame event |
| 06:50.34 | ZorbaBeta | the decision ended up as "if you want that behavior, it's easy enough to wrap the function yourself" :) |
| 06:54.03 | Noshei | :EventAttach(Event.Mouse.Move, function(x,y) stuff here end, "blah") |
| 06:54.09 | Noshei | ^ that should work, right? |
| 06:54.38 | Noshei | or can i not attach a global event to a frame? |
| 06:54.41 | ZorbaBeta | you can't attach global events to frames, sorry |
| 06:54.56 | Noshei | darn, figured |
| 06:54.59 | ZorbaBeta | well, at least, not as a formal thing through the API |
| 06:55.05 | ZorbaBeta | there's probably dozens of ways to do it informally |
| 06:55.54 | Noshei | I'm just gonna inspect the mouse, will get the same functionality |
| 06:59.08 | Noshei | odd, Event.UI.Input.Mouse.Left.Down doesn't seem to work with a riftWindow |
| 06:59.51 | Ivnedar | you'd need to use the bubble/dive ones wouldn't you? |
| 07:00.03 | Ivnedar | or content/border/etc frames would consume it |
| 07:01.20 | Noshei | ugg |
| 07:02.09 | Ivnedar | (guessing) |
| 07:02.18 | ZorbaBeta | guessing correctly, I believe |
| 07:02.22 | Noshei | or I guess I could just setup the same events on the border and content |
| 07:02.25 | Ivnedar | winning! |
| 07:09.37 | Noshei | did Catch not end up going in ZorbaBeta? |
| 07:20.22 | Noshei | I'm going to guess it didnt, but that shouldn't matter for me |
| 07:25.13 | Ivnedar | ah, so you'd want to :Catch() in the RiftWindow so it gets the event instead of the content/border |
| 07:27.19 | Noshei | yeah |
| 07:27.23 | Ivnedar | in riftwindow mouse left down dive |
| 07:27.31 | Ivnedar | so rift window gets mouse left down |
| 07:28.10 | Noshei | yup, but handle:Catch() throws an error |
| 07:52.58 | Noshei | it seems that doing something as simple as getting information about a frame in the mouse move event is a bad idea |
| 07:53.51 | Noshei | takes too much time, and by the time it gets the information the mouse has already moved again and a new event triggered. Results is some pretty funny stuff when trying to drag a frame around. |
| 07:55.41 | Noshei | or maybe it was the math and not getting the information (or both combined) |
| 07:57.18 | ZorbaBeta | I think :Catch() went in, in some form. Could be wrong. |
| 08:00.38 | Noshei | window:EventAttach(Event.UI.Input.Mouse.Left.Upoutside.Dive, function(handle) handle:Catch() end, "blah") tossed an error saying Catch didn't exist |
| 08:02.38 | Noshei | I didn't want to catch anyways, when I thought about it |
| 08:03.33 | Ivnedar | you'd want to do the frame position changing in the dive I imagine |
| 08:04.30 | Noshei | yeah and I'm only doing it when the user has clicked on a specific frame |
| 08:04.56 | Noshei | so I'm just testing to see if the frame event was for the frame I want and only doing stuff if it is |
| 08:05.32 | Noshei | otherwise it would trigger for anything that is a child of the window (which is everything inside it) |
| 08:06.20 | Noshei | So close to getting rid of nkgenie and simplewidgets |
| 08:07.59 | Noshei | just 3 more instanced between the 3 libs to replace and I'll finally be rid of them both. |
| 08:08.10 | Noshei | s/instanced/instances/ |
| 08:08.28 | Noshei | yay, I finally got purl to work |
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| 20:55.57 | Noshei | gah, wtf |
| 20:56.37 | Noshei | so I have a testure with a text frame that is a child to the testure |
| 20:56.51 | Noshei | if I change the testure the child disappears |
| 20:57.00 | Imhothar | that's been in the game forever |
| 20:57.27 | Noshei | yeah I thought I remembered this being an issue |
| 20:57.34 | Noshei | what was the work around? |
| 20:57.45 | Imhothar | don't change the texture after adding the child text |
| 20:58.11 | Imhothar | if you have to, make them siblings |
| 20:58.30 | Noshei | yeah |
| 20:58.49 | Noshei | the testure will be changing a lot, guess I'll have to add in some frames to parent both to |
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| 23:14.55 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, it's a bug I still need to fix, unfortunately :/ |
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