| 00:00.57 | seebs | Laeris is in the top five for people I've encountered for ability to be wrong no matter what. |
| 00:01.24 | Ivnedar | I think Daglar was a bit shocked to be referred to as using PR double speak |
| 00:01.26 | seebs | The best I ever knew was a CoH player who went by Another_Fan, who could be wrong about basically *anything*, and vehemently so. While I've seen Laeris be maybe-correct. |
| 00:01.37 | Ivnedar | the complete polar opposite to what he's usually described as doing |
| 00:01.55 | seebs | Laeris spent months explaining that the reason for low frame rates in Rift was poor network performance on the server end. |
| 00:06.12 | Ivnedar | I have no idea what the cause is any more |
| 00:06.35 | Ivnedar | people with lower spec machines happily run it at 50+ fps on higher detail |
| 00:06.47 | Ivnedar | or they're just full of crap |
| 00:06.52 | Ivnedar | probably the latter |
| 00:07.38 | Noshei | and the spammer is back... |
| 00:12.52 | seebs | I think it may well be the latter. A lot of people are very bad at evaluating frame rates. |
| 00:13.00 | seebs | And like to brag. |
| 00:13.18 | seebs | I mean, heck. Last summer I briefly got a reported 80fps while out in Morban doing stuff, but I don't think my machine actually gets that kind of rate regularly. |
| 00:55.57 | Ivnedar | oh wow |
| 00:55.57 | Ivnedar | http://usvsth3m.com/post/74285062011/you-wont-believe-why-the-victoria-line-is-currently |
| 00:56.12 | Ivnedar | love that they say the line service is suspended due to flooding |
| 00:56.22 | Ivnedar | they don't mention that it's due to cement flooding, not water ... |
| 00:59.22 | Ivnedar | apparently they poured sugar over it, which slowed down the hardening of the cement so they could get it out |
| 01:00.02 | seebs | Hmm. So, Inspect.Shard(). Does this tell you the shard you logged in on, or the shard you're on now? |
| 01:00.07 | Ivnedar | logged in on |
| 01:00.14 | seebs | I ask because if you enter an instance, I think you are still in your home shard for channel purposes. |
| 01:01.03 | Ivnedar | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:01.27 | Ivnedar | Unless it's changed recently, Inspect.Shard() always returns your home shard, no matter where you currently are |
| 01:01.30 | Ivnedar | it's not /shard |
| 01:01.45 | seebs | And actually that's what I *want*, because I want to add this to my chat log workaround. |
| 01:02.19 | seebs | I am still vaguely irritated that there does not exist a slash command which turns chat logging on, rather than toggling it, or a way to determine whether it's on, or a way to set it on so it's persistent. |
| 01:02.19 | Ivnedar | Yup, discussions about it on the forums a while ago, usually attempting to work out where you are by looking at /1 |
| 01:02.43 | Ivnedar | bbl, lunch! |
| 01:07.00 | Noshei | lol Ivnedar how did they manage to do that |
| 01:34.30 | seebs | Huh. Friends list is back to showing a whole ton of people as "logged in" who are not actually logged in. |
| 01:34.41 | Noshei | mobile |
| 01:35.28 | Noshei | thats why they are white and not their class color |
| 01:40.15 | Ivnedar | do what? |
| 01:40.28 | Ivnedar | yeah, mobile server reconnected after this weekend's big crash |
| 01:40.45 | Ivnedar | oh, the cement |
| 01:41.02 | Ivnedar | contractors filling in an elevator void with quick drying cement |
| 01:41.11 | Ivnedar | the cement burst through the wall into the switching room |
| 01:41.28 | Ivnedar | those photos were of the top relay bank out of a stack of three |
| 01:41.32 | Ivnedar | to show how deep it was |
| 01:43.47 | Ivnedar | I'm still attempting to get my head around the sex and glass app |
| 01:43.52 | Ivnedar | for google glass |
| 01:43.58 | Ivnedar | both people having sex wear the google glass |
| 01:44.11 | Ivnedar | your glass shows what the other person's glass sees |
| 01:44.51 | Ivnedar | and the whole thing is recorded, those two cameras and a third party camera, splices it all together into a video for you ... |
| 01:44.59 | Ivnedar | the whole concept is bizarre |
| 01:47.19 | Noshei | yeah I thought google said they wouldn't allow apps like that for glass |
| 02:03.41 | Ivnedar | pretty impressive that they'd cleaned up that cement mess in 12 hours |
| 02:11.09 | Ivnedar | http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/01/gigantic-space-battle-breaks-out-in-eve-online-thanks-to-unpaid-bill/ |
| 02:25.18 | seebs | I have concluded that Rift may be Too Hard for me. |
| 02:25.30 | seebs | Because fundamentally, my visual processing cannot handle Rift's way of displaying effects. |
| 02:26.10 | seebs | Specifically, I can't really process significant quantities of VFX/particle-effects or whatever, so my brain just discards the vast majority of what's on-screen. And I can work around this for a specific fight if I know what to look for. Like, I can move out of red things, or out of green things, or whatever. |
| 02:26.44 | seebs | But if I don't know in advance that I am looking for "a purple area on the ground", I will just plain not see it. At all. |
| 02:26.56 | seebs | This extends as far as "entire screen can be on fire and I won't know if I didn't know I was looking for fire". |
| 02:27.34 | seebs | And everything uses different colors, so I can't default to "watch for red areas" or something. I have to watch for multiple colors, and which colors varies from fight to fight. |
| 02:28.49 | seebs | But people are in general not capable of turning that description into information they can act on. So I can tell people this, and they'll say "okay, watch out for the purple areas". And then there is a fight, and they say "why didn't you move out of the yellow things?" "Because I didn't see any because no one told me there were yellow things." |
| 02:32.05 | Ivnedar | install kbm! :D |
| 02:32.21 | Noshei | and add more colors to distract him |
| 02:32.38 | Ivnedar | then you can pick the colours to link with the mechanics you want to watch for and disable the others |
| 02:32.46 | seebs | I actually think I have KBM installed. I may not have it configured. |
| 02:32.56 | Ivnedar | I get a headache every time I tank FT twins |
| 02:33.08 | Ivnedar | other tank feels nausea tanking it |
| 02:33.15 | seebs | More colors isn't necessarily a problem if I can configure them. |
| 02:33.43 | seebs | Thing is, once I *do* know, I'm usually okay, but early on, it's just... Screen is a wall of light. I can't tell what's happening. |
| 02:34.02 | Ivnedar | yup |
| 02:34.15 | Ivnedar | other player vfx is turned off I assume |
| 02:34.18 | Ivnedar | not that that turns off much |
| 02:34.27 | Ivnedar | but it helps if you're getting overwhelmed |
| 02:34.49 | seebs | It hadn't been, but it is now, will see if that helps. |
| 02:35.17 | seebs | Of course, then I can't tell what's happening as well in other ways. Part of the problem with New Content is that it's all new animations and VFX. |
| 02:39.26 | Ivnedar | Hrrm, so a pve almanac could be handy |
| 02:39.46 | seebs | Something like. |
| 02:39.48 | Ivnedar | detect subzone change and instance, pop up a "here's what you need to know for this boss" type thing |
| 02:39.53 | seebs | That would be sorta neat. |
| 02:40.02 | seebs | What I really want, of course, is pictures *with also words*. |
| 02:40.15 | Ivnedar | hrrm, pictures would be harder |
| 02:40.17 | seebs | Like, not just "here's a picture", but "here's a picture and a description of the part of it that you are supposed to be responding to". |
| 02:40.51 | Ivnedar | I was thinking a text only thing that listed out the mechanics, what they do and what they look like |
| 02:40.55 | Ivnedar | without images |
| 02:41.01 | seebs | I would find that super useful. |
| 02:43.12 | Ivnedar | now I kinda know how libsimplewidgets works, I may be able to do something |
| 02:49.42 | Noshei | oh I wouldn't suggest using simplewidgets for anything |
| 02:49.59 | Noshei | it is unlikely it is going to get updated to the new event system at any point |
| 02:50.08 | Ivnedar | d'oh, ok |
| 02:50.16 | seebs | I am not a huge fan of that library. I sort of want a library for things like that, but I am too lazy to make one. |
| 02:50.27 | Ivnedar | I'm too lazy to make one too, so that's why I used it |
| 02:50.35 | Ivnedar | a few weird quirks that I don't know how to work around |
| 02:50.39 | Ivnedar | but mostly works |
| 02:52.08 | Noshei | oh yay, great patch note: Conquest Power will now start to decay after 1 week (instead of 2 days) of not gaining any Conquest Power. |
| 02:52.16 | Ivnedar | YAY!!! |
| 02:53.05 | Ivnedar | where are the notes, hrrm |
| 02:53.28 | Ivnedar | ahh, pithos |
| 02:54.12 | Ivnedar | That is definitely something Trion can use to boost community morale every so often |
| 02:54.29 | Ivnedar | whenever it starts bottoming out, extend the cq power decay grace period |
| 02:54.36 | Ivnedar | resets morale back to max |
| 02:54.56 | Ivnedar | lol, rift community morale power decay |
| 03:06.21 | Ivnedar | It's amazing the size of eve battles now |
| 03:06.27 | Ivnedar | 70 titans on one side |
| 04:25.53 | seebs | Dammit, Zorba, you've been proven wrong again. |
| 04:26.10 | seebs | Someone in 50-59 chat has realized that the Rift client's performance problems can't *possibly* be threading-related. |
| 04:26.26 | seebs | Because the NT scheduler maintains process affinity, see, so you wouldn't see load on all cores from a single thread. |
| 04:26.40 | Ivnedar | uhh |
| 04:26.40 | seebs | So actually it is a "typical scalability issue with an untrusted client model". There you have it. |
| 04:26.53 | Ivnedar | a single thread causing load on all cores? |
| 04:26.59 | Ivnedar | scratches head |
| 04:27.16 | seebs | Apparently he sees ~17% CPU load on every core. Therefore the problem is not that most of the work happens in the main thread. |
| 04:32.08 | *** join/#riftuidev {Amadeus} (~amadeus@66-215-115-177.dhcp.gvrb.ca.charter.com) |
| 05:30.14 | seebs | You know, it's been like an hour, and I still can't even come up with a possible semantic content for "scalability issue with an untrusted client model" that would make sense for explaining Rift's FPS issues. |
| 05:44.50 | Amadeus- | I really would be interested in making an addon to help Conquest raid leaders ...but, anything I can think of would really just be to help with communication, which would require sending text to the chat window, etc. ...which I'm sure is not allowed. |
| 05:45.20 | Amadeus- | I was thinking perahps it could "copy" the text to the player's buffer then they could just control-v it into the chat ...but, don't think we have a way of putting text into the 'control-c' buffer, do we? |
| 06:33.36 | ZorbaBeta | yeah I'm actually curious how that would happen myself. I think some people assume that clients wait for network activity in order to render frames |
| 06:33.49 | ZorbaBeta | which is obviously incorrect if you take a look at a lag spike and compare it to frame rate, but, welp |
| 06:37.43 | Ivnedar | it may be that it feels like lag spike == fps drop |
| 06:37.49 | seebs | Woah. |
| 06:37.51 | Ivnedar | since the frames are showing the same content several frames in a row |
| 06:37.56 | seebs | Meridian 59 source is now available. |
| 06:38.06 | ZorbaBeta | oh that's interesting |
| 06:38.37 | seebs | The game itself does not appeal to me, because it's PvP-oriented, but still. |
| 06:41.35 | ZorbaBeta | oh man, C API for d3d8. that wouldn't have been fun |
| 06:42.18 | seebs | I mostly get along better with C than C++. :P |
| 06:46.20 | Ivnedar | reading about the game's history |
| 06:46.55 | Ivnedar | the archetype acquisition would have hurt, $5mil in stock in 3do, unable to sell for 6 months |
| 06:47.11 | Ivnedar | 3do stock dropped by 75% of value before the 6 months were up |
| 06:48.13 | seebs | 3DO got so utterly screwed by the PS2. |
| 06:48.34 | seebs | They jumped early on that, worked super hard to release stuff, and ended up with huge development costs and games that shipped before it had a big enough installed base. |
| 06:50.32 | Ivnedar | wow, no server crashes in the 3 years it was live |
| 07:34.04 | Amadeus- | Ivnedar, seebs, did you ever take a look at the original text based MUDs in C? |
| 07:34.09 | Amadeus- | I used to work on those a lot back in the mid 90s :) |
| 07:34.10 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 07:34.15 | Amadeus- | where I learned a lot about C actually |
| 07:34.26 | Amadeus- | although..in retrospect...lots of bad coding in those bases ..hehe |
| 07:34.47 | Amadeus- | I worked primarily with diku/merc/Envy MUDs |
| 07:35.01 | Amadeus- | man ...if I knew then what I know now ....... |
| 07:35.36 | Amadeus- | it was pretty cool what we accomplished with just sockets :) |
| 08:57.18 | seebs | ... |
| 08:57.21 | seebs | Well, that's a new one. |
| 08:57.39 | seebs | Someone offered an extremely compelling argument that Rift is a P2W game. Specifically, that the person arguing with him was probably a chick. |
| 08:57.51 | seebs | As you are well aware, if the person arguing with you has a vagina, that means the game is P2W. |
| 09:25.46 | Ivnedar | I thought everyone knew that |
| 09:28.01 | seebs | So one of my friends commented on how the stock enters a waveform based on speculative genitals, and now I have to never drop my pants or Trion's stock could collapse. |
| 09:28.14 | seebs | And, to my shame. I responded "oh, no worries, they're privately held" *and the pun was not intentional*. |
| 11:14.10 | *** join/#riftuidev Amadeus- (~amadeus@66-215-115-177.dhcp.gvrb.ca.charter.com) |
| 14:27.29 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:56.27 | Noshei | gah |
| 17:56.35 | Noshei | why do I have to be a nice guy sometimes |
| 17:57.50 | Noshei | someone just linked an amazing unique mace (6l Karui Maul) and an amazing chest (6l again) and said they were new and a friend gave them to them. They wanted to sell both for 5 Chaos. |
| 18:00.09 | Noshei | the mace alone is worth like 30 ex (about 400+ chaos) |
| 18:28.34 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 18:28.34 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 18:33.40 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 18:33.41 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 18:49.49 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Imhothar@ppp-93-104-169-24.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:20.24 | seebs | Sooooo. I've gotten at least three copies per account of squeenix's January newsletter. So far. |
| 19:20.41 | seebs | SE's motto: "Competence: It happens to other people." |
| 19:29.49 | Noshei | lol |
| 19:31.53 | Noshei | some days I hate my job |
| 19:32.39 | Noshei | spend all morning telling this damn network admin to add a vlan to a port channel and all morning he keeps saying he doesnt need to. That it should work without adding it. |
| 19:33.02 | Noshei | Finally get him to just do it anyways, and guess what. Everything starts working right after he adds it. |
| 19:39.33 | seebs | I don't even know what a port channel is, but I will take your word for it. |
| 19:40.21 | Noshei | it is simple and obvious and the fact that I saw the issue (I have very limited experience with networking) and he didn't is just crazy |
| 20:42.02 | Noshei | hmmm, does this look accurate to anyone? http://riftgrate.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/airsagaworldevent1.jpg |
| 20:42.14 | Noshei | anyone see any reason those dates might not work? |
| 20:43.03 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: when did trion invent a time machine? |
| 20:43.41 | ZorbaBeta | last week, but we haven't announced it yet, so don't tell anyone |
| 20:46.05 | seebs | Did you mean: next week, but we announced it last year, so don't tell anyone |
| 20:57.20 | Noshei | lol |
| 22:02.02 | *** join/#riftuidev frankbutt (~frankbutt@66.172.11.32) |
| 22:02.03 | *** part/#riftuidev frankbutt (~frankbutt@66.172.11.32) |
| 22:03.50 | Noshei | im surprised you aren't asleep ZorbaBeta |
| 22:07.18 | ZorbaBeta | just wanted to do a map before bed :V |
| 22:07.26 | Noshei | lol |
| 22:14.32 | ZorbaBeta | having the worst map luck though |
| 22:14.49 | ZorbaBeta | there are, like, five creatures in the entire game that gives me problems. I have encountered one or two of them in each of the last maps I've done. >_< |
| 22:15.02 | seebs | Aww. |
| 22:15.39 | Noshei | that sucks |
| 22:15.40 | seebs | I occasionally go on a PoE binge for a day or two, then I don't play for a long time because most of the time, I just hate inventory tetris, and accumulating currency-or-loot is SOOOO slow for me. |
| 22:16.26 | seebs | Wow. |
| 22:16.44 | seebs | EVE had a battle which destroyed ships with an ISK value that, translated to real world money through PLEX, would be >$200-300k. |
| 22:17.43 | Noshei | what level map you doing ZorbaBeta? |
| 22:18.05 | ZorbaBeta | 69 |
| 22:18.30 | ZorbaBeta | running up against arcmages and undying evangelists, both of which I hate |
| 22:18.49 | Noshei | well if you want any help let me know, I just got most of my minions |
| 22:21.19 | ZorbaBeta | think I'm good, just gotta be careful |
| 22:29.08 | ZorbaBeta | oh man I hate arcmages. Worst creature in the game for me :P Finally done, though |
| 22:29.42 | Noshei | cant decide if I want to give a map a go today |
| 22:30.04 | Noshei | I've got plenty of lvl 66 maps |
| 22:30.30 | Noshei | I just dont want to get facerolled |
| 22:30.48 | ZorbaBeta | 66s are pretty easy |
| 22:30.56 | Noshei | I'm only 68 |
| 22:31.01 | seebs | Huh, someone pointed out that timed quests lack timer info. Also suggested a combat event for drains. |
| 22:31.16 | seebs | It's a shame there's no reliable way to figure out *which* abilities absorbed stuff from a given attack. |
| 22:32.02 | ZorbaBeta | ah, fair |
| 22:32.11 | ZorbaBeta | you could always do public docks or crematorium groups to level up fast |
| 22:32.52 | Noshei | yeah |
| 22:33.06 | seebs | I do not trust PoE's grouping because there exists At Least One circumstance in which people in a public group can choose to attack other players, and I don't have any confidence that there aren't others also, because the devs don't seem to think that's a problem. |
| 22:33.11 | seebs | So I don't group. :) |
| 22:33.22 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, PoE's grouping has always been a bit hazardous |
| 22:35.56 | seebs | Rift's safer in some ways, but finding non-hostile groups is apparently non-trivial these days. |
| 22:36.11 | seebs | And thanks to unexpected drama, I am now not only at 60 but with no experience of experts, but also unguilded. Whee. |
| 22:36.29 | ZorbaBeta | that sucks :/ |
| 22:36.52 | seebs | Yeah. Although someone advised turning off other player hit vfx, and now I have less information about party members, but much better ability to see NPCs. |
| 22:37.34 | seebs | The suckiest part, I think, is that my visual processing problems are simply *incomprehensible* to most people, so they can't actually get a working cognitive model of what I do or don't need them to describe. |
| 22:37.50 | seebs | So three or four fights in, people were still saying "and stay out of AoE", and I was still having to ask "what color AoE". |
| 22:39.22 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: whats the best map to get from killing dominus? |
| 22:40.03 | ZorbaBeta | noshei, Grotto, as I recall |
| 22:40.16 | ZorbaBeta | http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/339977 if you haven'te seen this, you should :) |
| 22:40.38 | ZorbaBeta | also, if you're feeling confident, don't identify unidentified maps - you get a 30% drop bonus for running them unidentified |
| 22:40.41 | ZorbaBeta | (doesn't count on uniques) |
| 22:41.51 | Noshei | thats what I ended up getting |
| 22:43.39 | seebs | So, I was thinking of doing a thing in an addon, but realized I don't have a way to do it, which is "run a task for a period of time, then pause it and resume later". But this can't be done, I don't think. Issue is that I want to have a task which may or may not run for a very long period of time, and I don't know in advance how long, and I want a way to break it into sub-components. |
| 22:44.05 | seebs | Basically, thinking about my RiftRC addon, and its ability to run arbitrary blocks of code. But it can hit performance warnings. |
| 22:44.44 | seebs | I suppose I could just have it treat everything as coroutines, and check whether they have completed and if not run them again in a frame. |
| 22:45.15 | Noshei | well that was interesting |
| 22:45.28 | Thorarin | I still don't see how you could do "arbitary code" without some horrible hacks |
| 22:45.39 | Noshei | got in a public group that was killing dominus, ported in prety much died right away |
| 22:45.45 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, the only way you can do that is coroutine.pause()'s |
| 22:46.04 | ZorbaBeta | and that means you need to inject coroutine.pause()'s in various spots, if it doesn't already have 'em. and that is nontrivial |
| 22:46.09 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 22:46.24 | Thorarin | Yep :) |
| 22:46.46 | ZorbaBeta | in fact I suspect it's impossible, at least if you want to protect against malicious code |
| 22:46.47 | seebs | So say I have a function about which I know nothing. It occurs to me that I can create a coroutine of it, and run that coroutine. |
| 22:47.10 | seebs | And then if it *does* yield, I can tell it has yielded rather than completing, and resume it next frame. |
| 22:47.21 | seebs | And if it *doesn't* yield, but completes, I can tell it's actually done. |
| 22:48.08 | Thorarin | Obviousy the problem is code not finishing in time and being killed by the watchdog |
| 22:48.20 | Thorarin | Hence the coroutine.pause |
| 22:48.39 | seebs | What I'm thinking to do is, I have a thing which "runs this code, then gets output from it and displays the output". |
| 22:49.46 | seebs | And I could make it smarter so that the "run this code" phase spawns the thing in question as a coroutine, so that if it does happen to call coroutine.yield, I can resume it next frame. |
| 22:49.53 | seebs | And if it doesn't, well, it'll complete or error out. |
| 22:49.59 | seebs | ... Wait, .pause? |
| 22:50.06 | ZorbaBeta | .yield(), sorry |
| 22:50.14 | seebs | Okay. |
| 22:50.14 | ZorbaBeta | realized I'd typed the wrong thing but nobody else had seemed to notice :V |
| 22:50.23 | seebs | I was just assuming it was a synonym or something. |
| 22:50.39 | Thorarin | *shrug* assumed it was a different flavor of yield that I had forgotten about :) |
| 22:50.52 | ZorbaBeta | I actually do have a coroutine.pause() function I use in my code - it just calls yield a given number of times |
| 22:50.58 | seebs | Then the code blocks the user provides don't have to do the coroutine-starting dance themselves, they just automatically get the benefits of a coroutine wrapper if they ever call .yield. |
| 22:50.59 | ZorbaBeta | nice for special effects and AI work ;) |
| 22:51.32 | seebs | And since this is pretty much entirely for code run in response to user actions, I'm not super worried about the overhead of making a coroutine. |
| 22:52.01 | seebs | Then I just need to convert SlashPrint so that its pretty-dump of tables is also a coroutine-friendly thing, and I can have riftrc able to actually handle things like "dump _G as a pretty table". |
| 22:52.18 | Thorarin | Hmm, I do a lot of things like that in KaruulAlert actually |
| 22:52.40 | Thorarin | Creating UI, getting buff details, whatever |
| 22:52.50 | seebs | I should quite possibly just *rewrite* slashprint, which has gotten Out Of Hand. |
| 22:52.57 | Thorarin | It's all just plain loops with conditional yields in some places |
| 22:53.26 | Thorarin | Spend too much time? Continue next frame |
| 22:54.56 | seebs | I am still a tad intimidated by KaruulAlert. Figuring it out and configuring it is Definitely On My List. |
| 22:55.37 | Thorarin | Hmm, someone complaing about how I was coming too bed :P |
| 22:55.39 | Thorarin | laters |
| 23:12.15 | Imhothar | People from Microsoft have a proposal up to enable resumable functions in C++ |
| 23:12.36 | Imhothar | and one to put async/await from C# in the standard |
| 23:50.55 | seebs | ... Wow. http://kotaku.com/she-was-harassed-by-a-games-reporter-now-shes-speakin-1510714971 |
| 23:50.59 | seebs | This is just fucking insane. |
| 23:51.02 | seebs | I do not understand people. |
