| 01:09.25 | Amadeus- | the "russian drama" on the pvp portion of the forums is kindof hysterical |
| 01:10.07 | Amadeus- | some moderator closed a thread because they were speaking russian in it ...but gave no reason other than it was in russian ....and they all went ape shit ...lol. |
| 01:10.46 | Amadeus- | the reason, as far as I understand it, was because people were saying bad things in Russian and mods couldn't understand it (which is a fine reason for closeing the thread); however, for some reason, they didn't say anything about that as a reason when closing the thread. |
| 01:11.22 | Amadeus- | so, as it is with pvp'ers...everyone went all "foil hats" and big-brother conspiracy theory insane. |
| 01:43.41 | Ivnedar | there's a post about it |
| 01:44.24 | Ivnedar | foreign language discussions are fine, but if enough reports come in about it and the mods are unable to substantiate those complaints, they're more likely to close the thread |
| 01:44.34 | Ivnedar | since they can't really make any call about the content |
| 01:45.42 | Noshei | cause that darn google translate just is so much work |
| 01:45.48 | Ivnedar | :) |
| 01:46.05 | Ivnedar | I don't know if you'd want them making calls based on google's translation |
| 01:46.17 | Ivnedar | you'd get the general gist of it, but things will be so out of context |
| 01:47.00 | Amadeus- | well, to be fair, if you're going to market to foreign markets, you should support their language in all things ....imo anyway. |
| 01:47.18 | Ivnedar | But they didn't really, another company did, who then exploded |
| 01:47.21 | Amadeus- | I mean, if they're just playing because it's possible...that's one thing ..but if Trion was marketing to Russians, then that's different |
| 01:47.23 | Amadeus- | ah, ok |
| 01:47.46 | Amadeus- | well, if Trion never marketed to Russians ..then they all need to stfu and learn English. |
| 01:47.49 | Ivnedar | A third party was doing the Russian part of it, that third party exploded and Trion tried to help the players out by giving them a home on eu servers |
| 01:47.50 | Amadeus- | or go away ..lol |
| 01:48.23 | Amadeus- | I mean, I wouldn't go play a Russian game (that didn't market to English speakers) and then expect them to be accomodating to my language |
| 01:48.46 | Ivnedar | Most of the EU moderation team vanished just before that happened too |
| 01:48.55 | Ivnedar | so I think there's still a mess for Trion to sort out in that space |
| 01:49.07 | Ivnedar | I think they have french representation back again |
| 01:49.16 | Amadeus- | I'm a social liberal on just about everything except the whole language thing ....for example, if you come to America ..learn English. Having to make everything accessible to Spanish speakers annoys the shit out of me. |
| 01:50.53 | Amadeus- | It would probably help the Russians' cause too if Russian gamers didn't have such a bad reputation overall. |
| 01:50.58 | Amadeus- | (not just from Rift) |
| 01:51.09 | Imhothar | yay for stereotypes |
| 01:53.10 | Amadeus- | I'm not sure reputation is exactly the same as stereotype ...I mean, I don't judge them (which i consider stereotyping) ...but I recognize that they have a bad reputation and "understand" why various communities might be unsympathetic |
| 01:53.34 | Amadeus- | there are a lot of Russian gamers on EVE |
| 01:53.35 | Imhothar | you ever only hear those who shout the loudest |
| 01:54.39 | Imhothar | Hmm, what if having to make everything accessible to English speakers in Europe annoys me? It's not like every American going to a foreign country learns the language |
| 01:55.20 | Imhothar | Or like anyone going to another country always learns their language |
| 01:55.27 | Ivnedar | ssh, don't mention foreign countries to americans, you'll spook them and shatter their world view |
| 01:55.29 | Amadeus- | I wouldn't ever expect it. |
| 01:55.39 | Amadeus- | I travel all over the place. |
| 01:56.04 | Amadeus- | if someone can speak English ..that's fine ..if not, I figure out how to communicate as best as possible ...I would never expect it or get upset about it |
| 01:56.12 | Amadeus- | unless it were marketed to me as being English friendly, etc. |
| 01:56.46 | Amadeus- | if you get away from touristy areas ....English is not as common in foreign countries as people think. |
| 01:57.03 | Amadeus- | young people learn it in school ..but that's their choice....as Spanish is for young Americans |
| 01:57.44 | Imhothar | The thing specifically with American is (sadly) that most never *need* to lean another country. It's expensive to visit foreign country because most are so darn far away and expensive to reach. We could draw reputation from that too. And now think about Russia being actually bigger than the US. I see an analogy there |
| 01:57.48 | Amadeus- | ...in the end, it's all about money and where money is located. Once another language speaking culture is perceived as 'wealthier' than English speakers ...then it will change. |
| 01:58.00 | Amadeus- | I agree with that Imhothar |
| 01:58.01 | Imhothar | *learn another language |
| 01:58.28 | Amadeus- | most Russians older than 30 never learned English either ...they would have learned German or French in school. |
| 01:59.15 | Amadeus- | I wish it was as cheap to visit a forieng culture from America as it is across Europe |
| 01:59.27 | Imhothar | But thanks to the British Empire (yay) spreading English all over the place it's now considered a worldwise standard everyone is supposed to know |
| 02:00.04 | Imhothar | Stupid brits |
| 02:00.16 | Amadeus- | well...I think having a language that most people in the world are at least somewhat familiar with is important in the 21st Century. ...it just so happens that it worked out to be English ....and it's foolish for us to apologize for that. |
| 02:00.28 | Imhothar | I want Dutch as world language |
| 02:00.38 | Amadeus- | it's like modern American white men apologizing for slavery |
| 02:00.41 | Ivnedar | C! |
| 02:00.55 | Imhothar | Dutch to a German sounds like baby talk |
| 02:01.10 | Amadeus- | do the Dutch still let 17 yr olds act in poronography? |
| 02:01.15 | Amadeus- | pornography ..lol. |
| 02:01.40 | Imhothar | dunno |
| 02:01.43 | Imhothar | they did? |
| 02:01.44 | Amadeus- | I remember a story about that a while back ...that's all I know about Dutch ...that and you can fairly safely smoke pot :) |
| 02:02.00 | Imhothar | can't smoke in in public |
| 02:02.02 | Amadeus- | oh, and they have nice concert band history there. |
| 02:02.06 | Amadeus- | yea, i know that |
| 02:02.43 | Amadeus- | I can't wait to see how things pan out in Washington and Colorado here in America .....I think the're going to make SOOO much money from the sales of pot that the other states are going to fall all over themselves to follow suit |
| 02:02.58 | Imhothar | but meh, give the (nonexisting, of course...) global warming some time and Netherlands are removed from the map anyway |
| 02:03.12 | Noshei | lol |
| 02:03.30 | Noshei | i dont know about that, they are pretty good about figuring out how to keep the water out |
| 02:03.36 | Imhothar | Then there'll be convoys of caravans flooding into Germany. yay |
| 02:03.52 | Imhothar | ugh not caravans |
| 02:04.01 | Amadeus- | Gypsies! |
| 02:04.06 | Imhothar | ah no it is |
| 02:04.15 | Imhothar | the trailers people live in |
| 02:06.10 | Imhothar | Anyway back to topic, I think the alienation towards Russians is mostly based on the very different culture |
| 02:07.04 | Ivnedar | probably didn't help that a lot of the people in charge grew up during the cold war |
| 02:07.39 | Amadeus- | it's actually funny to talk to Russians about some things ....for example, their culture (as a whole) really doesn't care much about copyright. |
| 02:07.59 | Ivnedar | same with a lot of china |
| 02:08.00 | Amadeus- | I'v talked to Russian musicians that literally their entire library is xerox copies of copyrighted music |
| 02:08.10 | Amadeus- | and he/she feels similarly about software. |
| 02:08.12 | Imhothar | you can't really derive what a culture (as a whole) does or does not by talking to a few individuals |
| 02:08.51 | Amadeus- | well, as a professional American musician, I can give you a good sense of how the American musical culture views copyrighted print music, etc. |
| 02:09.07 | Amadeus- | I think you can get a good gist talking to a few people ...obviously there are exceptions to every rule |
| 02:09.20 | seebs | I dunno, I have seen huge variety among professional musicians there. |
| 02:09.21 | Amadeus- | but I've been told that it's just how it is ....copyright is not important. |
| 02:09.21 | Imhothar | how much is "a few"? |
| 02:09.49 | Imhothar | to how many Americans would I need to talk to know the culture of 300 million people? |
| 02:09.49 | Amadeus- | to be fair ..a lot of it is because no one sells the music there..lol |
| 02:09.53 | Ivnedar | few is 3-4 isn't it? |
| 02:10.10 | Amadeus- | if you talk to an expert professional in a particular field? I think you can get a good sense. |
| 02:10.23 | Amadeus- | of folks in that particular field |
| 02:10.49 | Imhothar | Would a professional musician in NY have different opinions on stuff than one in LA? |
| 02:10.52 | Imhothar | and if so, how much |
| 02:11.19 | Amadeus- | on something like copyright philosophy? No. |
| 02:11.34 | Ivnedar | would a professional musician who also runs a recording studio differ in opinion to one who plays the pub circuit? |
| 02:11.38 | Amadeus- | on how to perform a particular style of music ....perhaps ..but both musicians would know enough to tell you that it was different. |
| 02:12.04 | Imhothar | I'm glad you are drawing absolute certainties. I wish it would be possible |
| 02:12.10 | seebs | Even within expert professionals working in music in the US, there's *huge* disagreements about copyright, licensing, and so on. |
| 02:12.13 | Imhothar | for scientists to do that |
| 02:12.52 | Amadeus- | well, there are no disagreements on what copyright means ...lol. It is a very well-written law. But, as far as how closely people follow it? Yea. |
| 02:13.12 | seebs | There's pretty big disagreements on what copyright means, which is why some cases have had to go all the way to the supreme court. |
| 02:13.12 | Ivnedar | well-written? even that would be debatable |
| 02:13.24 | Amadeus- | I tend to compare the copyright law with speeding laws ..although still illegal, I see a difference driving 65 in a 55 ...versus driving 120 in a 55. |
| 02:13.32 | seebs | But there's huge disputes about the basic philosophical question of how much control musicians *want*, or how you should handle copyright violations. |
| 02:14.03 | Imhothar | just because something is written as law doesn't mean everyone agrees. The NY musician may agree with something, the LA one not. Do they still have the same opinion? |
| 02:14.04 | Amadeus- | ok, I'll back up ...I was talking about print music copyright ...which is what I said originally |
| 02:14.59 | Amadeus- | the new medias/technologies have confused the copyright issue quite a bit, I agree with that. |
| 02:15.48 | Imhothar | the argument still applies, people are too different to draw a conclusion for an entire population from a few individuals. Professionals or not |
| 02:16.33 | Imhothar | plus, what a few professionals think about a topc may be completely different in the greater population |
| 02:16.35 | Amadeus- | I agree with that ..but I think you can talk in "tendencies" between cultures. You can't say that cultures are different and then not say how they're different. |
| 02:17.21 | Amadeus- | there are negative tendencies for all cultures I think. For example, I think that my culture (America) tends to be more closed-minded than others. |
| 02:17.31 | Ivnedar | I'd be surprised if the majority of americans cared about copyright tbh |
| 02:17.32 | Amadeus- | not all |
| 02:18.10 | Amadeus- | heh ..naw...most people probably don't. I don't even think most musicians would care about copyright had the FBI not done a few high-profile stings in the early 1990s that cost some folks big money. |
| 02:18.22 | Amadeus- | bust a few universities ..and folks get educated :) |
| 02:19.04 | Ivnedar | yeah, which I still think was the completely wrong approach to fixing the problem |
| 02:20.05 | Ivnedar | itunes and the like was the right approach to me |
| 02:20.14 | Amadeus- | yea, I think the best thing would be to simply make it more rewarding to follow the law than to break it ...which some companies have done. |
| 02:20.18 | Ivnedar | make it so the user doesn't need to care about copyright and the problem is gone |
| 02:20.59 | Ivnedar | the user's goal isn't to comply with copyright, it's to the get the thing they want |
| 02:21.00 | Amadeus- | the thing that's killing me, personally, in the print music industry is more and more composers are renting music instead of selling it ...soooooo much more expensive. |
| 02:21.03 | Amadeus- | it's their right ..but it's painful.. |
| 02:21.10 | Ivnedar | the more barriers you put between the user and the thing, the more likely they are to go around them |
| 02:21.16 | Amadeus- | (I work in the classical music sector) |
| 02:23.03 | Amadeus- | you know what's funny that a lot of folks don't realize? Getting permission to arrange a "pop song" for another group (i.e., arrange a song for marching band) ...is VERY tedious and VERY expensive ..it takes months. But, video game music is completely different. Microsoft is always like "what? huh? Oh yea, whatever...who cares" ..they don't even charge for it ..lol. |
| 02:24.05 | Amadeus- | Nintendo doesn't even want to be bothered with it....they have stated, basically, that they're just not going to pursue any copyright violations unless it's heinous ...i.e., if you're not making big money on it, or using it for advertising, etc. ...then they don't care. |
| 02:24.34 | Imhothar | Nintendo is following a double morale there then |
| 02:24.35 | Amadeus- | and I have that in an email from one of their US lawyers ...lol. |
| 02:24.53 | Amadeus- | oh, I'm just talking about the music |
| 02:24.54 | Imhothar | Lots and LOTS of videos on youtube showing Nintendo gameplay (let's plays etc) have been taken down |
| 02:25.04 | Ivnedar | Yeah, why bother spending 2-3mil on a court case to chase down someone who made $50 |
| 02:25.06 | Amadeus- | it's the music that they're not concerned about. |
| 02:25.27 | Amadeus- | let me see if I still have that email |
| 02:25.37 | Imhothar | Even though big publishers like EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard have all stated that they are fine with monetization fo their content |
| 02:26.07 | Ivnedar | Blizzard have? Weren't they sueing everyone making money off their IP? |
| 02:26.15 | Imhothar | nope |
| 02:26.23 | Amadeus- | Nintendo owns extensive intellectual property rights in all of its products, including video game systems, game titles, characters, game software, graphics, and music. |
| 02:26.23 | Amadeus- | While we are grateful for all the requests for permission to use Nintendo properties, we are not able to grant such requests. We receive thousands of requests and we do not have adequate staffing to review them all. Therefore, our general policy is to decline requests for permission for the use of Nintendo properties. |
| 02:26.23 | Amadeus- | Although we are not able to grant permission, use of Nintendo's properties without formal permission by Nintendo may still be allowed under the relevant laws of the particular jurisdiction involved. Thus, we encourage you to seek your own legal counsel if you have any questions about whether your particular proposed use is permitted without Nintendo's authorization. Nintendo cannot provide legal advice. |
| 02:26.32 | Amadeus- | ^ in an email I received from one of their lawyers |
| 02:27.14 | Amadeus- | ....it was another email (and another colleague got one as well) that was less "form written" that she explained more that they're just not concerned about non-profit use of the music by educational institutions. |
| 03:39.24 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: you around? |
| 03:39.44 | Ivnedar | Noshei: if you want his attention, generate some pts rendering error reports! |
| 03:39.52 | Noshei | lol |
| 03:42.09 | Noshei | just cleared IG in about 60 minutes |
| 03:42.23 | Ivnedar | nice! |
| 03:42.35 | Ivnedar | It's pretty amazing how quickly content can be cleared when people are familiar with it |
| 03:42.40 | Ivnedar | that first kill is a big boost |
| 03:42.47 | Noshei | yeah |
| 03:42.54 | Noshei | killed volan on the 3rd pull |
| 03:42.57 | Ivnedar | or is warlock completely broken and op? :D |
| 03:43.00 | Noshei | second kill |
| 03:43.22 | Noshei | no warlocks |
| 04:15.23 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
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| 06:39.38 | seebs | Well, looks like Bowser got banned again, and came back. So now he's playing a cleric named Humansacrifice, telling people he thinks are female that he wants to rape them. And asking for handouts of money. Because he's insane. |
| 07:17.58 | ZorbaBeta | I sort of have to respect his tenacity. If it could somehow be redirected to productive things he'd probably be quite successful. |
| 07:20.39 | Ivnedar | if he could be somehow redirected to a virtual shard that didn't have real people on it, and moderators could use it as a training ground, that'd work |
| 07:25.18 | Imhothar_ | The mods' sanity might suffer too much from that obstacle course |
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| 07:31.47 | seebs | What I really want to do is call child protective services on his parents, because I am about 80% sure his home environment is severely abusive in some way. |
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| 11:19.12 | Ivnedar | wow, that was a huge regulos nerf |
| 11:36.34 | Amadeus- | to be honest, I like the idea that T1 content is nerfed once most of the hard core raiders are already through T2 |
| 11:36.53 | Amadeus- | lets more players see content ..because, some players are just not ever going to be perfect raiders ..hehe |
| 11:36.55 | Ivnedar | yeah, I don't mind it, just didn't expect it to be so noticable |
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| 22:17.35 | seebs_ | I would so like to get access to the code for the mobile app. There are a handful of bugs I'm about 90% sure I could fix in under a day. |
| 22:17.52 | Ivnedar | write your own from scratch, may be easier :) |
| 22:18.36 | Imhothar | sounds like a challenge |
| 22:19.27 | Ivnedar | I could probably write up some api doco for it if you want it |
| 22:19.35 | Ivnedar | and wait til ZorbaBeta looks away for a sec before posting it :P |
| 22:19.41 | Thorarin | Unfortunately couldn't get the scratch bit working on Windows Phone :/ |
| 22:20.00 | Thorarin | The HTML is kinda webkit only :P |
| 22:23.13 | seebs_ | Huh. |
| 22:23.57 | seebs | One of the devs (no longer there) was saying that his original proposal was to use standard protocols for that stuff, like XMPP for the chat. |
| 22:24.22 | seebs | But they did use a moderately-open design, and I know Trion's historically been pretty open. |
| 22:24.37 | seebs | I wonder whether we could get permission to do a mobile app implementation that was less buggy. |
| 22:24.45 | Ivnedar | it's a http connection with a keep-alive so the server can push new chat lines to it |
| 22:25.27 | Ivnedar | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:26.29 | Ivnedar | the message part is xml inside that json |
| 22:27.00 | Ivnedar | scratch cards are just html pages, pretty basic |
| 22:31.54 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 22:32.02 | seebs | Unrelated: Anyone know of good currency-tracker addons? |
| 22:32.15 | Ivnedar | there's a gadgets: money or gadgets: currency |
| 22:32.17 | Ivnedar | looks |
| 22:32.32 | seebs | I should probably add currency to Alternia. |
| 22:32.48 | Ivnedar | Noshei's currency bar looks good |
| 22:33.25 | Ivnedar | Adelea has Gadgets: Currency |
| 22:33.31 | Ivnedar | and Noshei has Gadgets: Currency Bar |
| 22:33.40 | seebs | I told the crafting reagents window to show only survival stuff. |
| 22:33.48 | seebs | It is showing me major flux along with a bunch of food parts. |
| 22:46.14 | seebs | I am occasionally sorely tempted to make a setting in Merisioux that lets me set the non-lore flag on other people's bios. |